I am noob how should i approach this battle

>>2111920 (OP)
Yari wall, bait the cav in your spears, use your cav to charge enemy archers

Just hammer and anvil, bro

>>2111920 (OP)
YARI-MAZING

>>2111920 (OP)
Deploy on a hill and wait for the enemy. You have relatively equal archers so you should just win.

The Ashikaga shogunate has fallen....
Billions must commit sodoku....

>>2111920 (OP)
all you have to do is yari wall because the ai never does

>>2111920 (OP)
The AI will just come right back with a full doom stack over and over because the game is shit. However the AI is so dumb it doesn't really matter. You'd have to intentionally play bad or be retarded to lose a battle in Shogun 2.

>>2111920 (OP)
Yari wall, preferably on high ground, and keep archers behind it for support. The high ground should help your matchlock unit do something in the battle.
Let the AI engage your spears -it should hopefully suicide its cavalry by charging your yari from the front- and charge their rear with your cavalry+general.
The AI has no defense against hammer and anvil. You can win every battle in every Total War game with the same strategy so long as you're not too outnumbered or outclassed.

I only ever played Shogun 1. Reading the posts in this thread I have to ask, is the game AI actually this bad? How the mighty have fallen (except not because CA is still making fat stacks of cash).

>>2112275
It’s pretty bad, but competent enough if you don’t spend too much time getting good. I’m not joking when I say that by the way. CA games are generally more enjoyable when you have a very basic understanding of the mechanics. The more you learn the easier and less enjoyable they become.

>>2111920 (OP)
I'd start with having better army comps

>>2111920 (OP)
WELL HOW THE FUCK DID IT GO ANON????? POST IT

>>2112359
It went well :) I learned about yari wall and how to use it and I wiped out the army :)
Thanks fellas

>>2112275
Shogun 2 has some of the best AI in the 3D era of TW.
>just yari wall bro
Doesn't actually "just work" on the higher difficulties. AI archers will btfo your yari ashigaru if you just wall.

>>2112388
>spamming ashigaru
>bad
なに ? !

>>2112388
It absolutely 101% does. As long as you upgrade their matk and use your general (and your archers) right.

>>2111920 (OP)
SHAMEFURU DISPRAY

>>2112388
That's why you reinforce your yari ashigaru with even greater numbers of bow ashigaru.
The yari only exist to preoccupy the enemy melee and die slowly. The fact that yari ashigaru actually beat samurai in a head on fight because their formation is busted is beside the point, your archers are what's actually doing the killing. As long as you have more archers than the AI, it will always approach through your killing field and die in droves to your archers. You will win the archer shootout by just concentrating fire with superior numbers, and then you can walk around and shoot their melee to death if they aren't done impaling themselves on the spear wall yet.

These two units literally solve Shogun 2's battles. The biggest mistake you can make is not recruiting enough archers. The second biggest mistake is wasting money and army slots on samurai or cavalry

>>2111920 (OP)
yari wall

>>2112514
Shit take. A bit of cavalry never hurts and samurai specialist units kick ass.

>>2112518
Samurai suck, and fuck your mushrooms.

>>2112520
Nah, you're just too much of a moron to handle more than two unit types at once.

Dont forget the Yari Samurai has a mean charge bonus despite being the lowest level samurai

>>2112514
>not recreating pike and shot with long yari ashigaru and matchlock ashigaru
Then play the Rising Sun mod and gun down Korean peasants or hordes of Ming. Pretty kino.

>>2112592
>matchlock ashigaru
As in regular non oda/otomo mashigaru?

>>2112514
Cavalry and samurai are fine but they should be used in small numbers and for specific roles. You can't fill a whole army with those units, not because they suck but because it's a waste of gold when Yari Ashigaru are so crazy cost efficient. They help spice up the gameplay and speed up battles, and Bow Samurai in particular far outclass Bow Ashigaru so recruiting those once you reduce their recruitment time is a pretty good idea.

>>2113148
Pretty much but there are exceptions. Oda bow ashigaru and chosokabe bow samurai for example.

>>2113148
IIRC bow Ashigaru are most cost-effective but outranged by bow Samurai. It can be good to have one bow samurai unit in your army just because it breaks the AI when you outrange them but otherwise massed Ashigaru just win the shootout.

The problem is model count. Ashigaru have a higher model count, so they both shoot more arrows and survive more return fire. Samurai have a small additional saving roll vs arrows because of their armour, but it doesn't amount to enough to offset the raw difference in fire volume. Only Naginata Samurai get a hidden save roll against missiles specifically but it's like 30% so it's still not actually enough to make them absorb ranged fire the way that shielded units can soak missile ammo in other TW games. Plus since Ashigaru are so much cheaper, you can afford to field more armies with them and thus do more on the map.

But really for me the most important thing was replenishment. Ashigaru replenish fast anywhere on the map, while Samurai take ages to recover their losses unless you rotate them back to a Dojo settlement. Actually that doesn't matter as much for archers since they won't tend to take many casualties compared to melee.

>>2113238
Sorry but that's garbage. They have the same range while samurai bows usually fire twice as fast and benefit even more with tech since that's % increase on higher base. They also fully replenish with rank 1 archery dojo which is very cheap and fast to setup. But the real kick in the teeth comes when you look at their base attack and morale and then recruit them in a province with a master weaponsmith and a jujutsu encampment. Doesn't work on most players, or at least it didn't but superb archers that have base mattk 11-12 pre experience and other things make for a hell of a deathstack.

>>2111920 (OP)
You got missile superiority.
Advance with archer line with spears behind them, the guns at the back with the general.
The cav is scripted to try and flank you. Intercept them with some spears and have the guns fire at them. Once the AI starts to bumrush charge you with all units (they will), just keep the archer back and spears front.
Day 1 simple stuff.

Going forward, make sure to have some artillery in all armies. Just one. This will force AI armies to charge you, even if you're the one attacking. You just sit on a hill and fire down.

>>2113248
Samurai archers pretty much always win against ashigaru archers due to to accuracy and more importantly their armor. It takes a lot more to kill a Samurai.

>>2113285
Yeah. And you'd expect them to win a shooty match but with their stats being so alright from the get-go if you go all out into mattk buildings they're basically katana samurai with a ranged attack.

>>2111920 (OP)
I presume that triangles in those units indicate experience. Does experience make much difference? Like how effective will 4 triangles be compared to 1 triangle? 140% 200% 400%?

>>2113385
https://shogun2-encyclopedia.com/how_to_play/031_enc_manual_army_experience.html

>>2113386
Those don't make any sense.
Melee attacks are
>lvl 1: 1
>lvl 2: 2
>lvl 3: 3
>lvl 4: 4
>lvl 5: 4
>lvl 6: 5
>lvl 7: 6
>lvl 8: 6
>lvl 9: 7
no linear progression, gay

>>2113387
Thats not the only stat that changes on level up, and the smaller the gap between best and worst, the more important actual strategy is. Well, each game has their cracked units, but the smaller the gap thr more useful non-cracked units are. This means combined/supporting arms strategies are a lot more fun since using them doesnt put you in as much of a disadvantage as it would in a game like M&B where using anything but your culture's specialty is kind of a waste. There you can just focus on huscarls, or rhodonk sharpshooters, or those swadian cav guys that are still god amognst men whole dismounted.
In a game like shogun 2, if you choose the Date and go full no dachi(which is all hammer and no anvil) youre gonna have a bad time. The "gay" level ups mean you have to still strategerize after leveling up. Levwling up just open a unit up to more strateric possibilities. You still have to employ the same tactics, but now that you left flank is sloghtly stronger than it was, you might be able to get away with a strategy that would have been riskier before hand.

tl;dr: yari wall is aight, but the real magic happens when its probably supported by other dudes.

>Victorious warriors win first and then go to war while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
-Leonard Nimoy, Civ4

>>2111920 (OP)
Send the saved game file to LegendofTotalWar and see how he will manage it

>>2112611
Don't forget Ikko-Ikki Ashigaru. More men and morale, they are so busted with relevant campaign building upgrades.

>>2116193
Not a fan of their ranged ashigaru. Archers are fun with upgrades but their matchlocks are unbearably awful even for most gun units. Pain in the ass to setup as well. Exceedingly funny when you cover 5 wall segments with one unit, I'll give you that lol.

Hattori matchlocks on the other hand are very entertaining.

>>2116215
They have Fletchers in their starting province though, and max upgrades are like +40 accuracy or something insane.

>>2116217
The accuracy isn't the problem brother. Their reload starts at 5 iirc and caps out at like 8-11. You can't even stand and fight more than one or maybe units on how many models there are.

How do I play otomo without feeling like a cuck? I dont even like play hata clan descendants.

>>2112275
The AI is better than Medieval 2 or Rome 1. In Shogun the AI actually turns formations around to meet flanking and rear attacks in my experience. The posters above you probably didn't even play the game

>>2116442

>>2116448
Did those actually improve combat effectiveness or was it just some accessory deal shilled by Big Matchlock to squeeze more silver from government contracts?

>>2116457
>his musket doesn't have a pimp cane

>>2116457
Monopods for early guns makes sense when you remember you had to aim for like 10 seconds
Lets not even accound for how big and unwieldy those guns are

>>2116215
You can just field an entire army of bow monks. With all the bonuses and you outranging everything enemy armies will just die and route before reaching you. In all my games I just use ashigaru units before full swapping to some endgame elite unit to fuck around. Mid tier units never were really worth it in campaign.

>>2116442
You would need to show more deference to the emperor who is actually living near you than some distant figure like the pope.

>>2116442
>How do I play otomo without feeling like a cuck?
Crusade with your 13 armor Tercos.

>>2116457
Early muskets and arquebuses were heavy as fuck and with a slow match you didn't instantly fire upon pulling the trigger so having a stabilizer definitely helped.

>>2116681
Their early game is filtering me. I do great on the field with armies comprised of 4 musketeers and 6 yari, but the grander strategy is kicking my butt.

>>2116716
You're located right next to the major sea trade lanes so you just want to consolidate your immediate position, rush to the foreign trade port to maximize income from european trade and build a navy to protect your seas. Use trade money to slowly dominate your corner of Japan. If all goes well you should basically reach a point where the only land approach to you is a chokepoint controlled by a single fortress that you can just hold indefinitely with a cheap stack and you can focus your economy on dominating the seas.

There are two naval chokepoints on the map up a little past your starting position. Both can be effectively blocked with 3 fleets overlapping their control zones. Use a real fleet in the middle, and a single gunboat on each side and the AI will never attack your cordon because the main fleet will be able to reinforce. Their pathing will just look to bypass your ships to snipe your trade port, but when it can't because there is no valid path, it breaks and just stops moving its ships. Easy naval dominance.

>>2116719
Ive got a pretty decent start now. Combined my 2 starting armies at the north town, Buzen, and the waited for shoni to siege and then counter rushed both their provinces. Split up the remains of that army to suppress the dissent in Shoni towns and managed to get 6 matchlock in each of my starter provinces to defend against the inevitable war with sagara and the murder stack eventually coming from Ouchi. Currently reinforcing them with some yari ashigiri so its not just matchlocks.

Was having trouble suppressing the rebellions while still collecting taxes while still being able to defend effectively against Ouchies and the other poeple on my island that declare war on me after taking out the Shoney's. Ill eventually get the Naban Quarter built, but my money is needed elsewhere right now. While I would love to rush Naban Trade Ships and get filthy fucking rich owning all the trade ports, I dont think I can do it while not dying.

>>2116716
Muskets suck early, they're great for castle defense only really. Turtle up, kill an enemy stack then go counterattack with yari bow/spear.

>>2116716
When the Honshu clans declare on you just turtle up and rape their sieging armies with small gun garrisons. While you hold them at bay with a skeleton crew, consolidate Kyushu and take the southern trade nodes. You want to build up to max stack trade fleets on every southern node while your nanbans form a wooden wall (literally, you want a bunch of stacks of 1 of them just close enough together so no one can go around them)

Also pro-tip, ship cannons were massively nerfed in the last S2 update, but if you still want the massively expensive upkeep Black Ship for style points, you can capture it as soon as it spawns via autoresolve with 19 trade ships.

>>2116763
>>2116746
in case you didn't know it was possible, you can stretch out your defensive lines on walls if you have a more limited number of units. Helps to get as much firepower on the walls as possible since only the front line is firing.

>>2116716
I usually abandon my capital, migrate north and consolidate kyushu asap counterclockwise. Shitton of priests, church in every odd province. Satsuma has iron and a bit of cavalry from there helps a ton to mitigate your bad starting honor/morale.

>navy
I never bother with it. Everyone hates you and the number of ships and whack-a-mole required counters most of the income you'd get. Also AI is nuts and overpays for horses and you have early access to those.

>>2116763
Otomo ones are quite decent.

>>2116763
My goto field strategy with them has been to use them as skirmishers out front, 3 deep. Then I have yari ashigari squares behind and inbetween the musketeers. So after they fire their volleys they fall back inbetween the yaris moving up. Its easy to move some yaris around to defend the flank vs their cav, the bring the other end around to hammer. Ive had great results with it against armies of similar sizes, or slightly stronger. Its kinda weird though because I know Id get more decisive victories using bowmen. Their disadvatanges are too prominent at the moment, and its reducing their tactical viability for me. Defences, they do seem op, but offensiving has been slow and the turn timer is stressing me. Maybe I just dont have enough(read: any) artillery to make this strat work. Its the king of battle for a reason.
>>2116779
>ship canons were nerfed
damn, I mean its a game and all and fun is great(especially if youre playing as the nippon navy specialists), but like... columbus didnt *row* the ocean blue in fourteen hundred ninety-two. Gun powder should be worth whoring youself out to the portuguese for.

>>2116794
>I never bother with it
Not to be an asshole but that's horrible advice, you can block all enemy passage south with like 4 Nanban ships, less if you don't bother blocking them from landing on the Northern coast of Kyushu.

>>2116798
The Nanbans are still way better than everything else and worth getting, the Black Ship just can't decimate everything opposing you before it gets close anymore. The crew matchlocks are also way more important.

>>2116800
Right back at you pal. Trade requires not being at war and between difficulty, realm divide, everyone hating on your christian ass and the ai in general being unreliable I'd rather take it as a bonus rather than build around it. It's good money when it works, no argument, but I'll just invest in solid armies and take his actual cities instead of spending a ~third of my income on fleets.

>b-but he'll naval invade
And he'll die to one of several ashigaru stacks I need to keep behind to deal with the buddhist rebels anyway.

>>2112275
I started playing Total War with Empire/Shogun 2 and now I exclusively play Shogun 1/Medieval 1. It's bad. I can't touch the 3d games without thinking of how badly they fucked everything up.

>>2116806
>Right back at you pal. Trade requires not being at war and between difficulty, realm divide, everyone hating on your christian ass
You're right next to three trade posts, no one was talking about trading with actual clans. Kyushu has always been easy mode for this reason.
>And he'll die to one of several ashigaru stacks I need to keep behind to deal with the buddhist rebels anyway
Your garrisons should be a handful of matchlock Ashigaru, and conversion is insanely fast if you're doing it properly. My first every campaign when I had no idea what I was doing I turned half of Japan into rebels with a bunch of priests.

>>2116811
Take a step back and reread what I wrote. Sure, it can make money, if you invest heavily into navy and turtle for few dozen turns to align with converting everything to 100%. I play more aggressively than that and don't enjoy playing both land, agent AND naval whack a mole with most of japan by turn 15-20, clear? As for backline armies I just reuse the pre-upgrade veterans now pulled from the main stacks.

>muh trade nodes
>one trade post
Anon... The guy in that related did mostly what I'd do.

>>2116802
Good, cuz thats what Ive been doing. Got one on a trade port right now. Didnt really give me as much money as I had hoped for... but its fucking korea, theyre probably trying their best.
I am really, really struggling with the Sagura murder stack and trying to make a play for Higo to take all of Kyūshū(the island you start on). Im in 1554 already and haven't really done much :|
So its like... holy shit i only have 80 turns to takeover half of japan.
Meant to click long campaign, but drinkin and forgot so gonna carpe diem.

My current position is
>6 yari and 4 matchlock ashigaru with generals in each Shoni towns
>8 & 6 w/ general in Buzan defending the straight
>10 & 8 w/ 2 generasl in the capital ready to move out as an 8&6 to assaultKyūshū provinces
The main problem is that even though I can easily overwhelm them, I have to do so from a flanking position between shoni-west and my capital. Moving a 6&4 from shoni-west and the 8&6(or even the 10&8) from my capital would overwhelm them, but due to the flankiness of it it allows them the opprotunity to sally out and fight one then regroup for the main assault from the other. My finances are shit. I dont have that much reserves and at maxtax Im pulling in 200 a turn... I deally I could have enough reserves to destation all my troops and hit them with everything Ive got while eating the loss, but I dont have that much reserve and building it up is taking too many seasons.

I could try declaring a defensive war(???) if the ai will fall for that??? Then counter charge their cities flank as their mirder stack is killing itself on one of my forts. Or I could try to just patiently reinvest my money in more nanban tradeships to get more income per turn and then make big plays with grwat income to solidify my position for a mad dash towards kyoto in the final years. Ive got all my provinces converted, but taking the armies out makes me have to drop taxes and Im only pulling in 200 at max...

>>2116816
(cont. I guess)
okokok, so Hizen(the town formerly known as Shoni-West) is cool if I remove their entire army at maxtax. So Im circling them around to Bungo to meet up with the 8&6+son(for a total of 14 yari, 10 matchlock, 3 archer ashigaru and their 2 genrals) there so I can try and assault the Sagara from a unified front while enticing their murder stack with the undefended Hizen. One thing I'll need to keep an eye out for is my unit's general lack of experience. They get routed a lot easier than I expect going 1v1 with the shagara armies that have been tempered on the Ito.
Also have another Nanban ship in the works for another tade port.

Once I take Higo, I'll wait for reinforcements from Taukushi(army is exact same as pictured), leave some behind for stability, and then finish them and start contemplating my desire for Ito. Recently hired the bowmen just because their ability to skirmish is better :/

>>2116824
Grow a pair dude

>>2112251
Shhh! The children are playing, dont spoil their fun!

>>2112514
yari samurai do not exist to charge head on into the enemy they are there to plug gaps, react to enemy cavalry, take opportunistic charges, and independently maneuver this is why they have a sprint ability
katana and naginata samurai are for frontal assaults

>>2112520
katana samurai are absolutely worth the gold
look at the successful multiplayer formations because they are not just ashigari spam

You dont want upgraded accuracy on gun units.

Gun units dont use the accuracy stat the same way bow units do. Instead they have a very high chance of outright killing a dude. Therefore Accuracy does nothing. If you wanna go guns, the better path is to upgrade their armour and survivability.

I am not entirely sure on this, but it seems my experience.

Also Matchlock Kachi? Is it me or is it useles?

>>2116898
Accuracy =/= missile damage, it's just that most gun units don't have the range and or fire rate to fully exploit it. Matchlock monks are really good with it and matchlock ashigaru are usable with it.

>Matchlock Kachi
You know you shouldn't use them as line infantry, right?

>>2116814
>Take a step back and reread what I wrote. Sure, it can make money, if you invest heavily into navy
Spamming trade ships to rush onto the nodes isn't "investing heavily into navy"
>muh trade nodes
>one trade post
Actually I had all trade nodes, the game had (or still has? Seemed less common) a glitch where your trade fleet would randomly deactivate and be stuck on the trade post and need to be deleted and replaced.

>>2116816
>>2116824
Max taxes with oversized garrisons are not ideal. The way all your units will fight to the death if in the top level of a fort makes generals unnecessary for defense. You could probably fend off 20 stacks with 4 matchlocks, 2 yari ashigaru, and the garrison. Remember to utilize the garrison because it's going to come back at no cost, so best to have their ashigaru in the front line.
>Also have another Nanban ship in the works for another tade port.
I'd recommend slapping 1 Nanban down at all the chokepoints like between Kyushu and Honsu and on the Eastern coast of Kyushu while you use full stacks of regular trade ships (or red seal ships when you unlock them) rather than Nanbans. Though one Nanban and a bunch of trade ships does make for a good precarious trade node setup, you could get a fleet composition like that when your main four nodes are taken and send them to the Western and Northern node.

>>2116891
Anon, players can actually walk around yari walls.

>>2116916
I don't know whether you'll understand me more clearly if I wrote it in hiragana. Early game you're not getting much from those nodes without ports and trade deals since their income scales of that plus there's the ship recruitment and upkeep. And there's the hassle of chasing raiders or date or some shit sending fleets and agents from the other side of the map to annoy you. Mid game you're getting enough income from fields and markets to not bother. You could play nice for a awhile but legendary ai will declare war as often as you'll see a shitpost on /v/, especially on a christian clan.
Not spending limited early funds on navy means more army earlier means more territory means more army means more territory. Navy slows that snowball.

For the last time. It's alright but like most gun units it comes online so late that you can safely ignore it and not have any problems. And it's not like rome where you can use fleets to conquer cities or have that busted fots bombardment so I'd absolutely 100% rather have two-three more stacks than pay for the fleet that doesn't help my land war.

>>2116930
Trade ships are incredibly cheap, I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to get on those nodes asap while continually building more trade ships until they are full stacks. It's less important for factions that aren't based on Kyushu, but for those that are it is way too good to ignore.

>>2116934
I get what you're saying but AI will contest those nodes and if you want to win vs their ship spam, and if you up the difficulty and mori doesn't die it's going to be a nasty spam, you need resources you could've used elsewhere. For example to deal with the shimazu gorillion katana samurai death squad nearby. And you sure as hell not going to keep those nodes with trade ships alone. Nanban trade ships are an option but those are much more expensive than the shitty 100/50 ones and screw a money making operation that needs 50 turns to break even on investment. Comparatively fields give food and the earlier you get and upgrade them the more they give down the line, with zero hassle involved.
You can do it, like I said dozen times already it can be good source of income but you don't have to if you landgrab early enough. Especially if you expand to shikoku before it consolidates.

Do you get what I'm saying?

>>2116944
Don't you get a Nanban via event? In either case, it doesn't take that long to get a Nanban up, and once you do it takes a single one at the strait to block 90% of enemy ships. Eventually you'll need like two more for the Eastern side of Kyushu.
>it can be good source of income but you don't have to if you landgrab early enough
It's more profitable and easier than extreme rapid expansion which pisses everyone off and leaves you with a bunch of land that isn't that profitable because of all the garrisons you need. Especially when you aren't even the same religion it's better to get used to the slow and steady start. Besides, you're already blitzing to take Kyushu as quickly as possible.

>>2116947
If it is I don't think I ever got it. There's an event for black ship sighting but that's something different, otherwise you recruit those for like 1200/250 a piece.

Now I don't know if you're playing on a lower difficulty (because 1-2 nanban trade ships ain't gonna hold 3-4 full fleets coming their way each turn) or if you modded the node income so it's worth having secondary blocking fleets (and you don't consider that a serious investment lol) but I'm tired of talking to you anon. You do you man, if it works for you all the better. I think it's a waste of resources and shooting yourself in the foot early on but hey, you're using cannons in your armies so maybe you have some forbidden iga techniques I'm not privy to.

>>2116953
>because 1-2 nanban trade ships ain't gonna hold 3-4 full fleets coming their way each turn
Skill issue
>you're using cannons in your armies
You shouldn't keep referencing the image that I said was from my first ever Total War campaign, which was 17 years ago, that I only posted to demonstrate the effectiveness of priests. These are from my relatively recent Otomo campaign
>>2116681
>>2116779

>>2116953

Not him but I usually avoid the naval gameplay due to it being bugged to the point where it is as fun as pulling out teeth.

Shitty bugged AI with the enemy ships scattering and sailing to the borders of the map. Easy win? Yes. Fun? Hell no.

I do spam tower bunes when I get gunpowder. Makes it trivial. The trade can be good money post realm divide.

>>2116958
>I do spam tower bunes when I get gunpowder. Makes it trivial.
Yeah I'm not advocating for always investing in navies, the trade posts you can get in the South are just too valuable to not get. And Nanbans don't take that long to get if you were going to go Christian.

>>2116960

The real shame is the bad AI making it unfun I think. If people play dumb its fine, whatever. But man fix your bugs.

They did give up on Naval Battles in later games. Sadly.

>>2116956
>>2116953
What wrong with euro cannons? A range of 500 seems great for forcing enemy advances so you dont have to deal with them turtling on a hill when youre the attacker. I would also imagine liberal cannon use would make sieges a lot easier without needing to have as many people to displace a large entrenched force.

>>2116964
It's mostly just that they aren't terrible effective in field battles and can be very terrain dependent. You are right though that it is good at killing cavalry, forcing the enemy to attack you, and easily destroying castle fortifications which can neutralize towers, open gates, and nuke units on the walls.

>>2116956
I agree. It's a massive skill issue to waste resources on a opening that slow to reimburse you when you can just take more provinces.

>>2116958
>The trade can be good money post realm divide.
Oh yeah, absolutely. But you have a whole bunch of ports and resources at that point. But if you go ham on it early you're getting peanuts post ship upkeep. And that's on a freaking silk node.

>>2116964
They slow your army by ~15-20% movement on campaign map, they're wildly inaccurate, they don't have that much ammo and they don't do too much damage when they actually hit. They're neat vs walls but that's about it. If you want to trigger enemies into charging you a couple horse archers will do just fine. If you want arty firerockets or big gunners if shimazu will do so much more for you, if your game lasts long enough that is.

>>2116969
>They slow your army by ~15-20%
man, thats extra gay. If they just sucked all by themselves Id bring some around for trolling while my nippon pike&shot formations march around with ocarina fifers. I mean it makes sense cuz heavy, but like damn, if you can afford a cannon you can afford a wagon.

>>2116920
and in singleplayer players have functionally unlimited budget for their stacks
do you really need 8 stacks of ashigaru spam or are 6 stacks with samurai enough? moreover which is more fun to play with?
a few units of samurai can significantly compliment a mostly ashigaru army - they give you the ability to break any centre or do devastating envelopments
i have regularly seen katana samurai scoring ridiculous kill counts in large battles
in the late game i typically replace all the ashigaru in my daimyo's army and maybe #2 stack with gold armor naginatas just because it's more fun having an elite army while you face off against 4 ai stacks of trash

>navy
one benefit of having naval control is it makes reinforcing your front much easier and faster from your gold armor/attack/accuracy/etc provinces

>>2116973
Yeah...

>>2116969
>It's a massive skill issue to waste resources on a opening that slow to reimburse you when you can just take more provinces
The skill issue is not doing both at the same time

Nice shitpost pal.

>>2116974
>i have regularly seen katana samurai scoring ridiculous kill counts in large battles
I recently had 1 unit in a pretty huge battle and wasnt too sure what to do with them so had them defending my right flank. After the clash happened and they made sure the rightmost yari wall was good, the ran out and routed like 10 fucking units. Theyre pretty great. Need to start using them more, degozaru, but Im also kinda retarded and go all-in on a simple supporting arms tactics more often than not.

>>2116987
Try marathons if you get a chance. If they close in they'll murder fucking everything around.

>>2116987
they are much easier to use than yari samurai albiet harder to use than naginatias
just throwing them into the thick of it alongside your yari wall will see them do good damage without being vulnerable to cavalry but you lose the opportunity to envelop your enemy
naginatas are braindead and you can just use them as yari wall + since they are good against everything and the tankiest normal unit in the game
you probably don't want to spam katanas even just one or two units will amplify your yari wall immensely but then the ai builds very poor armies and you can get away with almost everything

spam katanas and simply charge the enemy

stupid heathens