Twelve Apostles Edition!

Christian Esotericism is the inner and/or mystical aspect of the Christian Religion, it includes:
>Christian Gnosis (Clement of Alexandria)
>Desert Fathers Spirituality (Evagrius Ponticus)
>Catholic Contemplative Tradition (Bonaventure)
>Hesychasm (Gregory Palamas)
>Chivalry (Wolfram von Eschenbach)
>Christian Alchemy (George Ripley)
>Rhineland Mysticism (Meister Eckhart)
>Christian Cabala (Johannes Reuchlin)
>Paracelsianism (Paracelsus)
>Rosicrucianism (Robert Fludd)
>Christian theosophy (Jakob Böhme)
>Martinism (Louise Claude de Saint-Martin)
>Swedenborgianism (Swedenborg)
>Magical Idealism (Novalis)
>Romanticism (Baader)
>Anthroposophy (Rudolf Steiner)
>Sophiology (Sergei Bulgakov)
>Christian Hermeticism (Valentin Tomberg)
>Fourth Way (Boris Mouravieff)
>Christian Traditionalism (Jean Borella)
>Divine Love (James Padgett)
And much more, so let's continue to talk about it!

>Resources (WIP)
https://www.john-uebersax.com/plato/cp.htm
https://jacobboehmeonline.com/
https://archive.org/details/awakening-to-divine-wisdom-christian-initiation-into-three-worl-nodrm_202202/mode/1up
https://janelead.org/resources.html
https://archive.org/details/bookofcontemplat00unde/
https://archive.org/details/rudolf-steiner-book-collection/
https://swedenborg.com/bookstore/free-ebooks-downloads/
https://www.gornahoor.net/?page_id=47
https://archive.org/details/meditations-on-the-tarot/
https://files.catbox.moe/8n4061.djvu (Meditations on the Tarot)
https://eliasartista.substack.com/
https://passtheword.org
https://catenabible.com/mt/1

>>40824636 (OP)
Previous thread >>40768929

>>40824636 (OP)
Videos on Gnosis, its various types (SPG, UPG & VPG) and Gnosticism:

https://youtu.be/0F7knBtLsNs
https://youtu.be/260L-DEZVQ0
https://youtu.be/diHf_Tup6tE

>>40824636 (OP)
https://youtu.be/DZrGIIIBhNg

>>40824636 (OP)
Steiner time
https://spiritualscienceinsights.com/steiner-gospel-of-john/

Bump

bump

Rethinking my view of Christian universalism
Finally found someone to have a conversation with about it, and a lot of my interpretations of verses that I thought supported it were wrong. But that being said, it still seems like it's rather ambiguous.

>>40830153
What do you mean about christian universalism?

>>40830153
I just recently had a conversation with a scholar, who informed me, in no uncertain terms, that the Sheep in John 10 have no relation to "students" or "followers" or anything of the sort, and kind of treated me like I was the crazy one for thinking so. Be careful who you allow to interpret texts for you.

>>40830775
The idea that hell is temporary and eventually everyone will be restored and forgiven of sin by Jesus
>>40830783
Yeah, it was just a casual conversation between me and another Christian, and she kinda surprised me on some things. Like for some reason I never realized that acts 3:21 could potentially be read as *only* all the things spoken of by the prophets would be destroyed, and utter separation/destruction of unbelievers is mentioned just a couple of verses later

>>40830792
>The idea that hell is temporary and eventually everyone will be restored and forgiven of sin by Jesus
What if i told you that Apokatastasis is true?
John Scotus Eriugena explains it best

>>40830850
I would need an exposition of scriptures to believe it. Not philosophical or moral etc arguments for it.
I want to believe it and I still lean very slightly in support of it, but it doesn't seem as clear as I thought.

>>40830857
Why is it not as clear now?

>>40830859
Because many of the scriptures in support of it seem ambiguous, and there's some scriptures that seem to point to some people never being saved, like acts 3:25 and the second death of revelations.

>>40830864
It's Actually acts 3:23

>>40830850
For sure it's true.

>>40824636 (OP)
William Blake was a prophet

>>40824636 (OP)
Have you guys been keeping up with the South West Believers Conference?

>>40830864
Scripture and reason have to agree, so while i do understand why you're seeking it in scripture, it's best to have a combined approach with proper interpretation and proper reasoning
>>40831430
Stemming from Augustine, Heaven and Hell are created but above our world, our world is finite, and God is eternal, Heaven and Hell being in-between they're neither finite nor eternal
Sounds weird but Augustine explains his in his commentary on Saint Paul's Ascent to the third Heaven in the Bible
>>40831768
Not a Prophet, they have covenants, we aren't Montanists
William Blake was a visionary, a mystic, whatever you like to call him, so he continues in the tradition from the Essenes who had apocalyptic visions and kept hidden the names of Angels, to people like William Law in England who was a theosopher

>>40831789
It's live now
https://youtu.be/puUHK7ahyLo

>>40832049
Finally some quality theology

Bump

In tribulation immediately draw near to God with confidence, and you will receive strength, enlightenment, and instruction.

St. John of the Cross

>>40834528
A true Saint

>>40824636 (OP)
Anyone read this?

Can you recommend me a good book that's quick to read? Doesn't have to be any specific faith. Preferably old. Emerald tablets are too extensive. Prayers of Mani on my list.

>>40836812
The Didache

>>40836930
Nor give over-confidence to your soul. Thanks.

>>40836930
Any specific quotes you wanna share?

>>40836940
I read it a long time ago because I was interested in the early church, but I just remember it being short

>>40836985
What else do you feel interested in in the spiritual religious realm?

>>40824636 (OP)

>>40836671
Looks based.

>>40836671
Nope, but this is a topic that i am very familiar with, the book looks interesting
>>40836812
You can read the Epistle of Eugnostos in 5 minutes
>>40837439
Some idiot probably made that list!

Bump

Remove the letter A from the name Abel and you get a very famous god who was worshiped throughout Mesopotamia

TubalCain aka TuvalCain = (tu)Volcanoo - also (tu)Balcain -(revers) - Cannibal

The name Cain means spear
Mot in the Ugaritic cycle held a spear
Vritra held a spear

For some strange reason (even if we ignore other coincidences) Pontius Pilate is deciphered as Sea Spear(Moth and Vritra were connected with the sea)

because b can be read both ways. vaal - baal, bel - vel(vil), babylon-vavylon
Word bull and volk(also vol - bull. Volkolak) in Slavic languages are also connected with this (the Etruscans directly connected wolves with some wolf-like gods from underground connected with blacksmithing and knowledge. They are also possibly telkhines)

>>40840295
also Lycaon (Apollo also turned into a wolf and was known as Lyceus(Lyceus hm). Perhaps Xolotl, Anubis, is also coonected with this)

Perhaps the wolfish appearance is a curse of the Cainites

>>40840295
Lol ya a big brain in the sky wrote words dude. Thats actually the full story and is not really worth thinking about. Look I can also write words “hangniggershangemallniggerniggernigger” it means “peace and tranquility will come to you if you reply back to me with a heartfelt thank you and well wishes”.

>>40840326
A lot has been written about (tu)valcain and volcanoo. They are really connected. It's the same Hephaestus. He is also revered by Masons.

>>40840337
Dude a big brain in the sky even wrote all the languages. Even the symbols are sexual gaslighting. Binary is a 1 and a 0 which is a penis and a vagina hole symbol. He is very immature. Also he is kinda a gay rapist dude who slaughters us like hes making a movie.

https://pansophers.com/rosicrucian-orders-christology/

Pray for world and I brothers

>>40841568
What

Bump

>>40843077
>I hate Christians because what they did to the Jews
>what did they do to the Jews?
>hey buddy you are being antisemitic, want to go to jail?

>>40826149
>>40826154
reminds me of the AMORC bedtime stories vinyl lol

>>40806292
Is "Cabala" really the best category to put the Monas under? If not, what we call it?

>>40845661
The Monas Hieroglyphica is John Dee's own attempt at a universal symbol, like how YHShVH was Reuchlin's universal name, and he considers any form of mystical speculations on number as Cabala, as was common at the time
Cabala isn't "repackaged Jewish Kabbalah for Christians" it's its own tradition, with its own sources and own primary texts

>>40845800
Thanks you.

>>40845874
No problem mate

did everyone from the /catholic/ general over at /lit/ move here?

>>408472466

Made one

>>40847299
Not sure what happened there
>>40847246

>>40847126
rule #1 of /tradcath/ general: don't talk about /tradcath/ general
rule #2 of /tradcath/ general: when you smell a poo it means a jeet is nearby and you must stfu until it goes away; look up when it's midnight to sunrise in India, those times are probably safe

>>40848558
>when you smell a poo it means a jeet is nearby and you must stfu until it goes away; look up when it's midnight to sunrise in India, those times are probably safe
rofl. does this general get spammed by them?

>>40848656
>does this general get spammed by them?
no but better safe than sorry

>>40848940
grim

>>40830153
I think everyone will be offered salvation and the humble will accept it while the proud will reject it.

You will be judged , Jesus will show you all the times in your life he reached out and you turned away. Show you all he did for you despite this, Explain the weight of your sin. Then offer 1 final time the free gift of grace. Now if you are humble enough to accept it you can receive this grace, but if your pride prevents you then he is not going to force you to be with him.

Bump

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/265629/violence-continues-to-escalate-in-west-bank-as-settlers-target-christian-village

>>40847304
St. Augustine:
Mens corresponds to the Father.
Intellectus corresponds to the Son.
Volitio corresponds to the Holy Ghost.
He says that in these three powers the human soul is made in the image of the Blessed Trinity. The Son proceeds from the Father by way of understanding (He is His Wisdom) and the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and the Son by way of love (He is their unity).

https://pansophers.com/martinism-vs-gnosticism/
https://pansophers.com/golden-dawn-review-christosophia/

>>40851661
is that black pepper? reminds me of Johnny Cash (himself a Christian, to the point where he visited Jerusalem and also wrote a novel about St. Paul) saying that whenever smoking marijuana makes him grow paranoid, he pops a black pepper in his mouth and cracks it (chews on it)

Thoughts on the Holy Spirit being the feminine aspect of God? Spirit in Hebrew and Aramaic would be feminine and in Greek it's gender neutral.

>>40824636 (OP)
New post
https://eliasartista.substack.com/p/the-father-of-lies

>>40852412
This is heresiology not esotericism.

>>40840318
Are there any recent printings of this? It's a very hard to find book.
btw where do you guys buy your books from?

orthodoxy has a ton of lesser-known cults, like sedevecantist equivalent, batshit cults, messy patriarchate\jurisdictions, etc...I've been collecting photos of such "dubious orthodox", they feel comfy for some weird reason.

>>40853205
I know there's ROCOR, Moscow patriarchate, then I knew :greece, rumania, serbia, etc all have their own groups AND several old calendarist sects...in russia there are the, even more extremist "true orthodox" which are more like home-aloners??

>>40853205
>>40853224
Very cool. Old Believers are great also.

>>40852411
Isn't it interesting that Kingdom, in Greek, is also feminine? If the Kingdom of "Israel" is the Bride of God, and God is a Father, and to be Married is to be One Flesh...

>>40852695
Yes but I am doing these posts to explain elements of those heresies that also reoccur in Christian Esotericism as they derive from it

>>40824636 (OP)
Anon's thoughts on Meister Eckhart sermon 52?

>>40853650
the 1952 one?

>>40824636 (OP)
Pretty lukewarm Catholic here, how do I get better at practicing and avoiding intrusive doubts that try to lead me astray to other faiths?

>>40854489
>lead me astray to other faiths
example?

>>40854516
Quietistic ones like Buddhism or certain variants of Daoism

>>40854524
buddhism is a way of life, not a religion

>>40854540
NTA but I'm pretty sure it's a religion
ritual makes a religion, not spirituality

>>40852411
The Holy Spirit was interpreted in Syriac Christianity as Christ's "Mother" or "Sister" and there was the tradition of seeing the Wisdom of the OT as the Old Testament
>>40853358
The Kingdom/Israel is the Church
>>40854489
Study them, study Catholicism, with time and enough research on both you will make your decision
>>40854540
>buddhism is a religion, not a religion

>>40854556
as long as you practice buddha's teaching which are in accordance to the scriptures, you should be good. you can easily avoid metaphysical stuff and focus on the human aspect like kindness, compassion, self restraint etc

>>40854578
>>buddhism is a religion, not a religion
but religion romanticizes and incorporates metaphysics. "way of life" does not inherently have to.

>>40854581
so there are no buddhist monks, dressed in a certain way, temples, rituals etc.
you sound like a buddhist calvinist lol

>>40854591
Buddhism romanticizes and incorporates metaphics
>"way of life" does not inherently have to.
Any way of life seeks the good, and to justify the seeking of the good has to give it an objective existence outside of subjective experience, which is metaphics

>>40854623
of course there are but like i said, you avoid the metaphysical stuff like rituals etc

>>40854629
>has to give it an objective existence outside of subjective experience
i dont have to give it an objective existence.

>>40854650
>i dont have to give it an objective existence.
Ok then tell me, why are things like loyalty, truthfulness and justice good, and tricking, envying and malice bad?

>>40830792
I thought the Bible says thar hell isn't for eternity but the soul is destroyed and ceases to exist afterward

>>40854690
loyalty is not always good. further, loyalty and justice are subjective.

>tricking, envying and malice bad
evolutionarily bad. cause death and destruction.

>>40854712
>subjective
>evolutionarily bad.
Is that an authority? If my tribe succeded through tricking and malice and that way spread and became dominant, wouldn't that mean those things are evolutionarily good?

>>40854738
>wouldn't that mean those things are evolutionarily good?
not always. tribes which are prone to deceit, violence are also likely to experience intra societal deceit and violence

>>40854489
You have to pray for understanding, then do what you can to learn the faith. Study the Catechism, the Fathers and Doctors, and especially the lives of the saints. Also the daily rosary is a very powerful devotion.

>>40854623
These are later developments. Buddha's first disciples were solitary ascetics. It's better compared to the ancient Hellenic Mysteries, including their subsequent popularization and fall into decadence. It's evident from the disputes between the early Jesuit missionaries and the Chinese Buddhists that the dhamma had already become a dead letter to them by then.

>>40854650
>just avoid what the most devoted buddhists do
at least Christians / Jews / Muslims are not hypocritical

>>40854769
>These are later developments. Buddha's first disciples were solitary ascetics. It's better compared to the ancient Hellenic Mysteries, including their subsequent popularization and fall into decadence. It's evident from the disputes between the early Jesuit missionaries and the Chinese Buddhists that the dhamma had already become a dead letter to them by then.
stop talking about what you have no idea about

if you've said "Buddha's first disciples were solitary ascetics and then the teachings got corrupted" it would have been enough

>>40854768
I will ask again, is it an authority
Or better yet, is truth good?

>>40854798
>Or better yet, is truth good?
>is it better to tell the truth to ss guards that im housing a thousand jews
OR
>is it better to lie and say im unaware, thus saving a thousand innocent humans
you tell me

>>40854796
What did I get wrong?

>>40854810
False dilemma, i can tell the ss guards about my jews and then they jump out and kill them
This is not the point, is truth by itself good? If it is, is it better than falsehood?

>>40854837
its not a false dilemma. you cant just pick and choose what fits your narrative

>then they jump out and kill them
that wasnt the point

>is truth by itself good? If it is, is it better than falsehood?
see >>40854810
>>is it better to tell the truth to ss guards that im housing a thousand jews
>OR
>>is it better to lie and say im unaware, thus saving a thousand innocent humans

>>40854848
So for you it depends
Ok, let's use your examples , you either tell the truth and they die, or you lie and they live
Whichever you choose, why would you choose it?

>>40854858
>Whichever you choose, why would you choose it?
the latter because it makes me happy to see others happy

>>40854868
Alright, let's say i choose the former, not because i want to tell the truth or anything, I just want to see them dead, it brings me joy
Who made the right decision?

>>40854875
according to hitler, you made the right decision

>>40854706
>the soul is destroyed and ceases to exist afterward
Where are you getting that from?

>>40854880
Tell me who's right and why please

>>40854902
i just said -> >>40854880

>>40854905
So is Hitler an authority for you?
Please don't be evasive, can you give me an objective reason for why my and your decision aren't equally valid?
If you can't don't worry about it, I'll just move on to my point then

>>40854917
>can you give me an objective reason for why my and your decision aren't equally valid?
there is no objective reason. it's subjective since both us of feel joy. how is there an objective conclusion to this?

>>40854917
>So is Hitler an authority for you?
if i was a german living in 1940s germany, yes. if i was a chinese living in 1940s china, no.

>>40854935
So it's arbitrary
>>40854929
This then brings me to >>40854629 where without any objective good, no supposed way of like makes sense, it's all arbitrary and subjective, following the eightfold path is equal to mass genocide for "enlightenment"
Who knows, maybe Hideki Tojo is a Bodhisattva now?
So you need an objective good

>>40854962
>following the eightfold path is equal to mass genocide for "enlightenment"
illogical conflation

>>40854997
Show my why it isn't

>>40855011
you need to show how they are equivalent since burden of proof lies on you

>>40855015
Things are either objectively good and bad, or only subjectively, if the former is the case, what is good is clear, if the latter is the case, it's arbitrary, my good is your bad and vice versa
The eightfold path is meant to be a path to achieving a specific goal, this goal is said to be good and desireable, but the method is dependant on if it itself is good or not, and since in a world where goodness is subjective, that would make them arbitrary in that world, and equivalent to something like mass genocide as an extreme example
Who can tell me that mass genocide won't give me the subjective experience i need to achieve nirvana?

>>40855055
>Who can tell me that mass genocide won't give me the subjective experience i need to achieve nirvana?
strawman.
the eightfold path mentions absolutely nothing about mass genocide

>reads posts
>scrolls up to OP
>scrolls down again
yep it's a street shitter invasion

>>40855058
>strawman
Unrelated
>the eightfold path mentions absolutely nothing about mass genocide
Yes it doesn't, i don't claim it does, what i am claiming is that, in a world without objective morality, where everything is subjective, it doesn't matter if you do the eightfold path or not, it doesn't matter if you cause mass genocide or not, because of that, they're equivalent, the only one who says one is better than the other is my subjective opinion

>>40855079
okay i concede

>>40855079
but i still refuse to believe there's objective goodness. if what you're telling me is true, then every godless universe is devoid of intelligent human life

>>40855108
*despite being identical to our universe in every law, shape, forms etc

>>40855079
and that also leads me to another problem with your argument. if there are infinite number of godless universes, universes which lack objective morality, will ALL of them be devoid of intelligent life?

>>40855092
>>40855108
>>40855114
>>40855127
Now you want to get into an other discussion we can do that, but i have never claimed there to be any multiplicity of godless universes

>>40855136
so how would you know we arent in a godless universe?

>>40855066
If that's true, they're being called to the gospel. God is sending them here

>>40855184
NTA but the AWOO's are a pretty good evidence
that being said
AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>40855186
they believe in reincarnation though so we can reject them by the time we (whites, africans, non-streetshitting asians and latinos... especially cute latinas!) get our shit together

>>40855201
Aw anon be nice (And less downbad)

>>40855184
Because my worldview makes me believe in objective morality, and that objective morality has to come from God
If you want feel free to ask more and i will explain everything in detail, but not now, after some hours

>>40855206
I am a Catholic and that means that I can afford the luxury of not being nice... because there will come a Catholic that will be nice and help you
I am just

>>40855209
>my worldview
but you wouldnt know if your worldview has or does not have a God. this would be equivalent to the goldilocks principle/platos cave. maybe you just so happen to be in a godless universe where you see a shadow of objective morality?

>>40853650
>When the soul gives herself to the knowledge of the very truth, to
the onefold power in which God is known, then the soul is called a
light. And God too is light, and when the divine light is flooding the
soul, then the soul becomes united with God like a light with light.
Then that is called a light of faith, and that is a divine virtue. And
where the soul is unable to go with her senses and powers, there faith
carries her.

>>40855240
and in such a godless universe, you cannot conclusively prove or disprove objective morality simply because you as a human cannot see 'outside' of our plane of existence.

>>40855240
>but you wouldnt know if your worldview has or does not have a God
I know because my worldview is dependant on there being one
>maybe you just so happen to be in a godless universe where you see a shadow of objective morality?
If there is an objective morality then my universe is dependant on it, doesn't matter how "far away" from it it is

>>40855251
But like I said, you wouldn’t know. Therefore, on what basis can you conclusively and objectively say your universe is dependent on objective morality?

>>40855282
Reason
The indepth explanation shall come later, for now I have to go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHv9SfYUkC8

The average state of the general is getting to be a bit much, what even is the conversation happening here right now.

This general is top cringe and a contradiction by itself.

This is the best general on 4chan, hands down, despite the occasional retarded arguers. Thanks to all who keep it alive.

>>40826168

Anything inbred and hideous is scary enough.
//

DESTROY. DESTROY. DESTROY. NON-STOP!!! !!!

This general needs more heresy. The future is Buddhist/Gnostic Christian/Taoist syncretism.

>>40855441
This guy is supposed to be a theologian too. The modern state of Israel is illegitimate because God Himself expelled the Jews from the Holy Land. It is illegitimate because it is a secularist republic. These are points on which traditional Christians and Jews agree, although the Jews will not admit that God expelled them because of the crime of deicide. He thinks that Israel might be a legitimate state if it did not commit "atrocities." Genocide is not an atrocity, it is God's punishment of a nation's sins. The modern world hates genocide because it wants to go on living forever free from the consequences of its own actions. Today the Palestinians face those consequences, but tomorrow the Jewish nation will pay dearly for its perfidy. Wars and revolutions will consume the world, and then a great chastisement from heaven will put an end to this global technological Babel.
Esoteric angle: the world is the soul. The wars and revolutions are the many changing things that it knows. The chastisement from heaven is the agnosia, the destruction of false knowledge.

bump

>>40855282
Are you still here?

>>40824636 (OP)
Read them in this order, contains a lot of truth
1. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/36931222/#36931222
2. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/36976168/#36976168
3. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37023268/#37023268
4. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37093515/#37093515
5. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37134196/#37134196
6. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37237392/#37237392
7. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37333243/#37333243

Bump

Any book recomendations

>>40861618
Depends what you are looking for