>Demon Slayer only got so popular because the anime was amazing. The manga itself wasn’t all that great. It’s like the manga was just raw coffee beans, and the anime roasted and brewed them into something truly special.

>The fight scenes in Demon Slayer had room for improvement. Editors should have encouraged the author to study why the fight scenes in Dragon Ball were so amazing.

Based Torishima seeing through the mass hysteria and calling Demon Slayer what it truly is, slop.

>>281079276 (OP)
everyone agrees with this tho

>muh dragonball

>>281079276 (OP)
The anime is shit too

>>281079416
>CHADgon CHADall
Yes.

Hard to argue against that. The manga is mediocre.

Extremely average series with great animation

>>281079276 (OP)
Is there even anyone that disagrees with this?

He’s usually right about a lot of things.

>>281079525
>mom said it's my turn to post apples to oranges

>Checks out in Japanese
>He said nothing about that
>Some literally what English anime websites refer to a literally who Twitter account
>It is seemingly spitting nonstop bullshit that he made up referencing the Japanese manga people including Torishima, some kinda grand gatekeep-LARPing is happening
Truly a massive clusterfuck. Glad I am a JOP, I pity the plebs being swayed by those conmen, maybe he is an /a/ browser himself

>>281079276 (OP)
He's not entirely wrong. While I enjoy Kimetsu the art in the manga was kinda wonky. If it would have been received the Sakamoto Days anime treatment I doubt it would have become so popular.

>>281080068
The source comes from an actual native Japanese who translates One Piece interviews along with WSJ news. Your manga is mid and carried by the anime. Cope.

Another truth nvke.

>>281079276 (OP)
iirc the demon slayer fight scenes were not bad most of the time except like when the MC starts talking to himself

Torishima also throws shade at nu-shounen and why they have no staying power.

>>281080135
>I am what it is, because I said so!
Disgusting mindless cattle pleb. Stay fuck away from me.

>>281080068
Can I get the actual link? /a/ really likes to believe a literal who from twitter than reading the actual source, instead it’s better to take things out of context because my series is better than yours.

>hates on every other successful series
>doesn’t even think highly of dragon ball and thinks the whole thing was meaningless
What is this asshole’s problem? Is it any surprise Toriyama lost his passion for manga with this guy breathing down his neck

>>281080244
There isn't one, it's just a One Piece twitter tranny doing console war shit

>shittalks Demon Slayer
>shittalked One Piece
>shittalks AOT
>shittalks new shounen
He'd fit right in here

>>281080467
He also hates Berserk

>>281080192
Ironic he says this after what Dragonball became.

>>281080244
Literally no source. That's the latest news and comment on KnY he made and in his twitter too, seems like the twitter rando is the one who made this thread.

>>281080491
What does he like?

>>281080535
So as usual OP is a faggot? Can we start throwing eggs at him now?

I found the thing he's making fake news from:

　"The snowfall scenes and forest mist scenes are very natural, realistic, and three-dimensional. When the two-dimensional characters move against that backdrop, they fit perfectly and really stand out," says Torishima Kazuhiko, former editor-in-chief of Weekly Shonen Jump and advisor to Hakusensha, first highlighting the quality of the anime. He then points out the connection to the original manga, praising it, saying, "Because the original was written by a newcomer, the action scenes are hard to follow, but the anime skillfully complements them and makes them appealing. If the original were coffee beans, then the roasting and brewing techniques maximize the appeal of the beans."

This is something said in 2020 to jerk off the Mugen Train movie, so the twitter tranny is dragging up some shit from 5 years ago to maliciously interpret and slop his twitter tranny hogs.

>>281079276 (OP)
Isn't it obvious? Didn't the anime come out after the manga already ended?

>>281079276 (OP)
It's fake but it's true.

>>281080535
Cry more faggot. It comes from his book where he got interviewed a few months ago, LOOOL.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/479687447X

Torishima also throws jabs at editors for nu-Jump.

>>281080192
No

>>281080609
He also later said that he was fed that coffee beans line by WSJ editorial and he wishes he hadn't said it.

And again, Torishima reinforcing that there's nothing to learn from Dragon Ball and feels like it should have ended after Frieza.

>>281079276 (OP)
And Toriyama's former editor continued:
>Jujutsu Kaisen also only got so popular because the anime and the fujoshi. The manga itself is lazy. The characters lack depth and the fight scenes are too expository. Plus, Dragon Ball knew how to use asspulls in a less stupid way. Gege should give up his career.

Torishima also said this about OP
>OP is a twitter tranny. His post never say anything meaningful, just wastes catalog space everyday. If I were his editor Id give it to him straight and call him a faggot

Torishima is ruthless.

I'm sure I'll never hear about this fake news again repeated by a million subhuman brazillians until the sun explodes

Torishima told me
>Chainsawman is a disappointment and it would have been more successful as a hentai manga since that is the only level of writing Fujimoto is capable of

>>281079276 (OP)
Fake and gay

>>281079762
NEVER EVER

>>281079276 (OP)
>the man who activelly ruined the Cell saga is going to talk about anything
He should shut the fuck up for eternity and die in shame

Anons I think I got something. You want to hear this. You remember the 'Tomino blamed the editors of AoT who enabled it' news? Well it is true he hated AoT and said "I don't want to talk or read about it" but there are literally no sources he actually said that 'editors' thing. Same as this KnY and the AoT "Even a child can do that" news of Torishima. Surprising. But there's more. ALL of the sources of the news are from some 'Ranchodas Rajid' writers and indian anime websites. And their common source is seemingly that "I am a Japanese" literally who rando Twitter account with absolutely zero credibility. And the account is questionably posted in this very thread, what the actual fuck is happening in /a/ saar...?

>>281079276 (OP)
He's right, the writing is shit and even the art is lackluster

Murata > Torishima

>>281080467
>>shittalked One Piece
he is a huge wan piss tard

>>281079276 (OP)
Kimetsu no Yaiba is pretty much just the modern Saint Seiya, but with better marketing, 4K visuals, and way more shilling from Sony. What Torishima says about Kimetsu, he once said the same thing about Saint Seiya.
>Torishima: "Around the same time, Saint Seiya was a very popular anime. This was interesting because the Saint Seiya manga was rather average but the anime by comparison was a lot better. So I wanted to know why the Saint Seiya anime was doing so well and we did some research on that."
>Torishima: "We found that there were two key figures. The first was Kouzou Morishita, who was the director, and the second was Takao Koyama, who wrote the script. So I visited these two guys and asked them if they'd help me reboot Dragon Ball and they both agreed."
God tier soundtrack by Seiji Yokoyama for Saint Seiya, then there's Kimetsu with Go Shiina.
Amazing voice acting that gave weight to boring cardboard archetypes.
And though, Saint Seiya had shit animation at times, it knew when to go hard, and the dramatic direction papered over the emptiness of the manga just like Kimetsu.

The anime by Ufotable was a miracle and if it got picked by another run of the mill studio like Pierrot, it would vanish into obscurity among many underselling Jump manga.

Looks like Infinity Castle is not breaking the first movies box office record. Thank Christ.

What would Torishima say about your favorite manga?

>>281079276 (OP)
>Demon Slayer only got so popular because the anime was amazing
The anime is nothing special and the manga broke every sales record by a mile. Demon Slayer is ass but this nigga is just straight up denying reality.

It's not all about the fight scenes.

>>281081130
He'd say One Piece ended up being goated

>>281080467
He also didn't like Hokuto no Ken very much because of the moralfaggotry. But he found the one-liners cool.
>>281081063
>hack who ruins One's story with his fanfic and retcons
Nah.

>>281081135
>and the manga broke every sales record by a mile
Yes, after the anime, covid, and the anime movie. Manga was already over and not selling that well until everyone caught up with season 1 and watched the movie during covid lockdown. Face the facts. It's still big though.

>>281081190
How did Demon Slayer, of all things, convince so many anime casuals to buy the shitty manga?

>>281081223
Women and children

>>281081016
Ruined? Cell Saga is better than the whole Demon Slayer. Torishima would have forced that talentless Goutogue to get rid of the infodumps and flashbacks and create better designs for the villains. In his hands, Muzan and the final arc wouldn't have been as pathetic as they were.

>>281081234
The bane of all artistic endeavors.

>>281079276 (OP)
I’m weary of anybody who’s opinions are the personification of /a/

>>281081063
That's stupid. He makes it seem like the manga and the anime are the same thing simply because they share the same ideas and story. He forgets that in art what matters is the execution. That's exactly why his OPM was more successful than ONE's OPM.

>>281081237
Buu Saga was definitely the beginning of the end for DB. A lot the traits it started GT, Super and Diama have ran into the ground and exacrtabred.

>>281081223
Tanjiro's big dick energy

>>281081237
What's wrong with Muzan???

>>281080660
damn that retard got real quiet after this

>>281081237
Everything after Frieza is unreadable

>>281079276 (OP)
Both are nothing more than generic fights and emotional manipulation, but the anime indeed does it with more flair.

>>281081327
Demon Slayer might actually the worst cast of characters I've ever seen. Not a single one is likable, and Tanjiro is simply unhatable because he's so morally flawless, but that's what sucks about him as a character, I could overlook that if the rest of the cast were even kinda good but they're all either insufferable or boring.

>>281081070
He's the guy who quit being Editor in Chief because he hated One Piece.

Interested to see if Toei and the New One Piece movie can outdo Infinity Castle

>>281081310
>That's exactly why his OPM was more successful than ONE's OPM.
Not the fact that one is a webcomic that's a hobby for the guy and the other being a serialized manga? ONE got attention because of his talents, not just from Murata. And he continues to get work and has multiple successful series.
How is Murata's anime studio doing?

>>281079525
Compare literally any series vs Dragonball and it'll look like complete shit. Other than Hunter x hunter

>>281079276 (OP)
This dude has been on a fucking warpath recently Christ.
Though I am now curious to see how Shonen Jump would look if he had more control.

>>281079276 (OP)
It’s funny because dragon ball is literally only worth experiencing as an anime. Does ANYONE read or own dragon ball/z manga? Never even seen a volume in real life. It’s an anime thing.

>>281080192
>JJK, BnHa and KnY immediately forgotten a second after they ended
kek, he was right
and those are the bigger ones, shit like Sakamoto Days, Kaiju Nn8 and whatever other shonen slop is out there doesn't even register

>>281081640
It's a really good manga up until they started really milking it after Frieza, it's just that the kind of 80 IQ adults that can keep being interested in the IP 30 years later are not going to do anything where they have to read words

>>281081640
Of course people read it. Toriyama's art is gorgeous and the anime has godawful pacing.

>>281079276 (OP)
Based.

I only read/watch Dragon Ball and I will continue to do. I don't care about zoomer shonen slop.

>>281081686
>JJK
/a/ keeps shitposting this as forgotten when you can find JJK memes everywhere. The other two sure.

>>281081340
He's a smooth criminal

>>281081640
Anon, the Dragon Ball manga is a textbook for paneling and fight choreography.

>>281079276 (OP)

Kenshin still has the best sword fights. Even the regular show fights were a cut above but tsuiokuhen still reigns supreme but ok, say it´s unfair to compare kimetsu to one of the greatest anime movies of all time, what would be a fair comparison? Basilisk Kouga Ninpou? (Which, BTW, also trashes budget slayer), Sword of a stranger? Claymore? Let me know when i´ve gone low enough though i think i´ve made my point.

>>281079276 (OP)
Kimetsu was the most generic shounen I've ever read.

Completely uninspired and by the books and I was genuinely shocked when it became extremely popular. I respect narutards more than kny fans because at least Naruto has a soul of its own and isn't completely derivative.

>>281079525
This >>281079963 maybe a later dragon ball fight could have been a better example. However, I think it shows why Torishima used Dragonball has a reference.
Demon slayer dialogue makes me understand how insanely powerful and untouchable this guy is but at the same time I have trouble believing both fighters are actually moving around the area to dodge attacks. Meanwhile dragon ball don't need dialogue to show us that Goku has been holding back the entire time, Goku's smile and Tien's face says it all.
I understand that both fights narratives are different but I feel like demon slayer dialogue is just there because the autor don't know how to show them properly.

>>281081970
Why do people keep using /a/ as a metric for how forgotten something is?

>>281079276 (OP)
The first season was indeed amazing, but then in it just turned into senseless SFX vomit

>>281080467
https://fandomwire.com/former-dragon-ball-editor-thinks-eiichiro-oda-is-compromising-one-pieces-quality-for-the-anime/
Pic is true too

>>281081310
>That's exactly why his OPM was more successful than ONE's OPM
It's been repeatedly criticized for losing track of what it was originally, coasting on anime and existing manga hype, constant redraws, delays, and every storyline with the webcomic has people asking why Murata fucked up so bad.

>>281079276 (OP)
It's very telling that the Demon Slayer author didn't learn a single thing going by what Torishima says, because some editors for Jump had this to say about Koyoharu Gotouge's art.
>What's your most memorable moment when winning the award
In my award winning work, I tried to depict the theme of traditional Japanese clothes, vampires, a strong human that even the vampires fear, and someone who works hard and doesn't let their handicap show. The work is far from perfect. After winning the award, when I work on my one-shots and series, I always thought about wanting to payback those who evaluated my work at that time.
>Please give a message to newcomers who are aiming for Jump New World award
Whether you're drawing a storyboard or manuscript, try to finish it as a whole first before comprehensively evaluating the work overall. You'll learn many things that will help you improve. If you are stuck and stop half way through, try to think carefully what's the cause (for example, is it the character, structure, or the setting that makes the story difficult to develop).
>Editorial comment on "Kagarigari"
The author has a unique sense that standout, but lack enough drawing power to express it. Additionally, the author needs a structure that helps the readers emotionally connect to the characters.

>>281081640
I did. Toriyama watching all those films understands motion, flow of panels to the next, and how to do good paneling in general. We don't have half the anime only pacing problems nor Toei fucking everything up like they're still doing so with One Piece now.

>>281082817
I don't get the current hate for OP honestly, Egghead has been great.

>>281079276 (OP)
historical revisionism, maybe the manga wasn’t great idk but it was already the most popular manga in the world when the show started airing

>>281079276 (OP)
he's not wrong

>>281079276 (OP)
Does anyone actually disagree with this? I thought this was a universal truth.

>>281083415
Yeah, better not to think about it

>>281083059
One Pace exists for a reason

>>281082760
>The work is far from perfect.
No shit.
>I tried to depict the theme of traditional Japanese clothes, vampires, a strong human that even the vampires fear, and someone who works hard and doesn't let their handicap show.
Concept vomit of half-formed aesthetics. That’s someone struggling to identify what the fuck their story is actually about. It’s all vibes over vision, style over substance, and themes stapled on like a high school essay.
>Try to finish it as a whole before evaluating.
That’s some basic bitch beginner-level advice. Which makes it insane coming from someone who, by that point, was already serialized in WSJ. Which is like a chef at a restaurant saying: My advice to aspiring chefs? “Try finishing a full dish before serving it.” That’s how amateur this all sounds. Like someone still figuring out the bare fundamentals and you can feel that in the KnY manga.
- Random-ass plot turns.
- Sudden deaths from underdeveloped characters with no narrative weight.
- Flashbacks during battle to give emotion retroactively.
>The author has a unique sense that standout, but lack enough drawing power to express it.
Basically just Jump saying, “You have interesting ideas, but not the skill to visually execute them. Your art is dogshit and visually incoherent.”
>Additionally, the author needs a structure that helps the readers emotionally connect to the characters.
Translation: “This author doesn’t know how to write real human beings. They don’t evolve naturally, they don’t spark empathy, they don’t feel lived-in.” Gotouge is telling you what the characters feel because he has no idea how to actually show it. Every emotion in Demon Slayer is screamed.
>He’s my brother!!!
>This fight means everything to me!!!
>They died with honor!!!
Which is just cheap, melodramatic emotional baiting with no setup, no subtext, no interiority.

>>281081083
>Kimetsu no Yaiba is pretty much just the modern Saint Seiya
its not gay af
invalid argument.

>>281081083
The main difference is that Saint Seiya is actually good. Ok that's mostly nostalgia talking, but Saint Seiya is usually consider a very influential manga so I guess it did something right.

>>281079276 (OP)
I can't believe Gege forgot to have this payoff during the Sukuna fight. SJ nu-editors are slacking big-time or perhaps just aren't passing important information along when they change projects

>>281084332
Hi Jimbo, still mad?

>>281083738
It's unnecessary for Egghead

>>281085021
Nope, I'm actually very happy because Torishima the man shaped Dragon Ball (best thing to happen for Jump) even calls the Demon Slayer manga ass and told the world it only blew up thanks to the anime, lol.

It's like God himself descending from Mount Fuji to hand me a golden middle finger aimed straight at cocksuckers like yourself, zoomers and mentally ill women.

>>281080660
>>281080795
What page? Post the quote and pdf.

>>281079276 (OP)
>/a/ loves editors now

>>281081141
In a series about fighting, it is. If you don't know how to draw fights, then maybe you shouldn't draw a fighting manga to begin with.

>>281085211
You will keep coping until the day you die, KNYbaby

>>281080991
I guy who treats sex as misery would be a terrible hentai writer.

He missed the true high-IQ upper-brow taste opinion (the anime is poorly directed).

>>281080795
The guy says:
>There's nothing to learn from Dragon Ball
What people understand:
>Dragon Ball have no value
What it actually means:
> Dragon Ball is not a preachy manga

>>281085466
He is a manga editor, not an anime supervisor or whatever.

>>281085541
And that's why Dragon Ball is good while Demon Slayer is trash. It doesn't try to educate you on the meaning of life, it doesn't preach and it doesn't try to get philosophical. It's just a fun comic.
>T: When I read Fist of the North Star I felt that it was a bit preachy. But I was struck by its dialogue, "You are already dead." "I don't qualify to live another day!!" "Because I love the same woman." And, "I have no regrets in my life." Children think that such lines sound cool, of course. It had a lot of appeal in that regard, and was incredible.
>M: How did you plan to change the policy of Dragon Ball?
>T: That's when I decided to make Dragon Ball a work without substance.
>M: Without substance?
>T: That's right, Matsuyama-kun, have you ever learned anything by reading Dragon Ball, that you can remember?
>M: Well, of course, um...
>T: No, there's nothing you can learn by reading Dragon Ball. It's not a lesson in life, it's useless in our lives; it's just a funny comic. And that's fine!
>M: ... (Maybe that's true, but to say it in such a way).

Some more from an old interview a few years ago:
>T: That's another answer that came from studying and researching Fist of the North Star, because children don't want to be preached to when they read comics, so we had to make it more interesting at the time. I decided to go a different way in Dragon Ball, because Fist of the North Star was so cool, that I figured since it couldn't be useful for our lives, let's just make it fun. After that decision, I learned more from Fist of the North Star and found out that there was a secret in the drawings.
>M: A secret in the drawings?
>T: In previous manga up 'till then, when the main character hit the enemy, there were a lot of pictures in which basically two people were in the panel, and the main character was hitting the enemy from right to left. You saw that in works of Hiroshi Motomiya and Masami Kurumada.
>M: You're right about that.
>T: But in Fist of the North Star, a punch goes, "Attata-tata!" and flies to the side of the reader who is reading it. That was a novel invention.
>M: For sure!!

>T: Because Tetsuo Hara was a great illustrator for still images, I wonder if Buronson had to keep this in mind, where Kenshiro would poke a hole through a guy and make him stagger, right? These pictures were so cool. Once I realized this, I changed the direction of the action of Dragon Ball. Consider what Tetsuo Hara doesn't have, that Akira Toriyama does?
>M: What's that?
>T: Three-dimensional movement. Akira Toriyama has great spatial awareness, so he's better at drawing three-dimensional action, and I thought this would help differentiate it from Fist of the North Star. After this, it should have been easy, but I needed a place in the story's development where we could coolly show off the fact that Gokū trained and became stronger on a three-dimensional stage, so we started heading toward the..."
>M: Tenkaichi Budōkai!!
>T: Yes, that's why the battle platform is a square and there are rules for falling outside of the stage. As a result, not only do you get to fly around in all directions, but the action can make the most of the height difference in a natural way, see? If this happens, Akira Toriyama will be in a league of his own. right
>M: Wow, I just, I can only feel surprise. To think it was studied, developed, and designed with such a thought in mind.
>T: So, you see, there's nothing in it to analyze!

If nu-Jump had editors as insightful and as brutally honest as Torishima, maybe WSJ wouldn't be in such a weak state it currently is. Editors these days are too soft-hearted and more like yes men.

>>281085867
PREACH, BROTHER!
I mean, don't.

>>281079276 (OP)

>>281080491
>hates Rape/pedo/blacked/cuckserk
Uh based Torishima?

>>281082760
>The author has a unique sense that standout, but lack enough drawing power to express it.
Pretty sure that's a really important skill for a any Mangala, why hire someone that can't draw manga?

>>281086330
Super based, he says Cuckserk became shit after Golden Age
>Matsuyama: I'd like to ask you one thing. In Berserk, Casca finally awakens.
>Torishima: I'm not really interested.
>Matsuyama: What?! It's been 22 years, Casca.
>Torishima: I told Miura-san himself that I don't really like the way the story of Berserk has developed since "Eclipse". To be honest, I'm not interested in it as a reader, so I haven't read it. Sorry (laughs).
>Matsuyama: You're from Hakusensha, right?
>Torishima: I'm now the chairman, so I no longer have direct responsibility on site (laughs). But... not finishing the drawing when it was in its prime, and drawing it now in the flow of the story, may be good for the fans, but I think most people will feel like "So what?" It may sound blunt, but you can't do the same manga for 10 or 20 years. The reason is that a weekly magazine has 50 issues a year. 50 stories. So, if you do it for 10 years, that's 500 stories. So what stories are not completed?

>>281081141
>>281085372
The problem isn't having more than fights in a fighting-focused series, the problem is not knowing how to execute what you intend to do. The action in Kimetsu is basically: scribbles + infodumps + asspull in the final second. And the drama is basically "hey, remember when you were a kid and everyone died? Sad, right?". No wonder it only became a success with the anime. Movements and soundtrack help a lot.

>>281080491
>>281080555
>>281086330
>>281086569
So he doesn't hate Berserk he just doesn't like the shitty part.

KnY is basically a Ufotable production as far as almost all fans are concerned. The manga is TRASH, one of the worst modem battle shounen, but quality doesn’t matter, what matters is art, color palette, designs and animation. Ufotable could have made anything into their next hit franchise, but chose KnY probably because it was easy / cheat to get and it had an interesting visual style their artists knew they could work with. That’s all. The worst thing about KnY is how fucking AWFUL the character writing is. Surface-level, childish shit for those characters which do get developed to any degree, but mostly characters get NO development outside of their final fight flashbacks. This is made especially painful because the DESIGNS invoke the imagination of there being rich characters to explore, but which are NEVER explored. All of the Moons exist solely to fight the protagonists and die. All of the Hashira exist to do a few cool shounen battle scenes, and that’s it.

For example, why does everyone fucking worship Kokushibo? Because he’s Demon Kenshin, so everyone wants him to BE Kenshin — but his role in the narrative is to have a fight scene that is sufficiently impressive, and then die. It’s pure trash. To use Kenshin as an example of a much better battle shounen, was Shishioh’s role just to have a fight scene then die? No, he existed as a character not only to the audience, but also with a history with those around him, how he interacted with them in the past, influenced them and is seen by them. But in this trash, a Kenshin who lived for over 400 years has NO character or history outside of his one flashback in the final battle. It’s pure, low-grade trash that’s so bad BECAUSE it prompts the audience to expect more, but shits on them instead.

>>281086569
>implying Conviction Tower wasn't good

>>281086920
This. KnY is an objectively bad series that was carried by the animation and nothing else. It would be nothing without Yuichi Terao's signature compositing and Nozomu Abe's sakuga mesmerizing easily impressionable normalfags who just got into anime during COVID lockdowns. Anytime people complain about the show, it's the author's trashy writing and boring characters.

>>281086920
KnY is like Saint Seiya. No one cares about the manga.

>>281087489
>who just got into anime during COVID lockdowns.
>started like a year before them

>>281080192
This is why Kanojo Okarishimasu is so successful, it doesn't care about data or analytics

>>281080467
He also shittalked Kubo and called his manga awful
>Headline: BLEACH author Kubo Taito's radio comment was "too frank" and he "hates" the author of One Piece.
>Manga artist Taito Kubo (40), known for hits such as "Bleach," has been making a series of "frank statements" on his radio program, which has been receiving a lot of feedback, especially from fans of his works.
>Mr. Kubo made consecutive guest appearances on "Sandwich Man's Weekly Radio Jump" (TBS Radio) broadcast on November 5 and 12, 2017. He talked with two of the program's MCs, the comedy duo Sandwich Man, about the real story behind the serialization of his work.
>In the November 5 broadcast episode, he first mentioned his relationship with "One Piece" author Eiichiro Oda. He said that Kubo's debut work was ranked one place lower than Oda's work in a reader survey, "I have hated Oda-san since then." Kubo suddenly confessed to the audience that he disliked Oda from that moment on. Mikio Date of Sandwich Man responded with a laugh, "You are surprisingly clear about things, aren't you?"

>The next episode that jumped out was with Mr. Kazuhiko Torishima (now president of Hakusensha), who was editor-in-chief of "Jump" shortly after Mr. Kubo's debut. When Mr. Kubo was summoned to the editorial office together with the editor in charge, Mr. Torishima scolded him, saying, "Your manga is no good." Mr. Torishima then handed him a volume of "Dragon Ball" and "Fist of the North Star" and told him to "read this when you get home" and "draw this kind of manga." Kubo described his feelings at the time, "I thought 'damn you!' Well, I think he had high expectations for me.... I didn't read them after he had said that." He recalled, "I was like, "Well, I guess they were expecting a lot from me."

>>281081083
Shueisha editors never liked Saint Seiya anyway because Kurumada saw himself as an author rather than an employee. And then he left the company to later return after ensuring his copyrights.

>>281084968
Kubo, Clamp, and maybe Togashi kneel to Kurumada.

>>281088129
wtf I hate Torishima now

>>281088337
turns out the jaded old man wants to turn everything into dragon ball

>>281088129
Bleach really does suck though. Let’s be honest.

>>281080555
shojos

Has torishima ever actually said anything cool or is it all twitter tranny hallucinations

>>281079276 (OP)
how much money is infinity castle doing again?

>>281080068
>h-he praised it in 2021, so he must still like it now in 2025!!
That's not how humans work, dumbass. People change. Tastes mature. Hype dies down. You revisit something years later and go, 'Yeah, that wasn't actually as good as I thought.' People praised SnK's early arcs until they realized Isayama couldn't stick the landing. Naruto was beloved until the War arc exposed all of Kishi's writing faults. Even Star Wars fans constantly reevaluate the prequels, sequels, and spin-offs.

Also, Torishima's a seasoned editor who helped make Dragon Ball (Dragon Quest too) and is both respected and feared for his critical eye. It's his literal job to analyze works with distance, to pick apart what makes something tick or fail. He's allowed to reassess, especially with years of hindsight and no hype fog clouding judgment. It's what separates a real media analyst or critic from a dopamine-chasing hype junkie.

People who act like opinions must be frozen in time are the same ones who can't handle critique, context, or growth.

>>281088743
15 billion yen so far
Still way less than Mugen Train and unlikely to surpass it

Yeah no shit. The manga was running in Jump for years to very little fanfare. If the manga were anything special it would've showed in the readership polling or tankobon sales prior to the anime. Even after the anime started though it wasn't an instant hit, it was episode 19 that changed everything. All it takes is one episode to completely change an entire manga's trajectory.

>>281079276 (OP)
True
The manga was meh. I thought that it was going to have way more content

>>281081431
Based. The One Piece manga is actually unreadable. It's fucking ugly.

>>281088819
Only retards thought that this would surpass Mugen Train. It’s like saying you could surpass Woodstock 1969 — that’s obviously impossible, because Woodstock represented a singular moment in history with a confluence of events in the culture which crystallized it into what it was. You just can’t reproduce it because people still like music, the conditions which created it no longer exist.

>>281081083
>The anime by Ufotable was a miracle and if it got picked by another run of the mill studio like Pierrot, it would vanish into obscurity among many underselling Jump manga.
FUCKING THIS

He also shat on Toyotaro and his editor recently kek

>>281089098
why is it always a twitter screencap in English

>>281088376
Dragon Ball is objectively HORRIBLE from a writing standpoint.

>>281082066
I've been team "ufotable sucks" since KnK and now every action anime on earth does the same things Ufotable started.
The schizo cameraman from 3d animatics used over storyboards.
The incomplete drawings you cover up in post production with digital vfx.
The numerous "cinematic" vfx passes where you keep iterating until the whole thing's covered up in digital puke.

But clearly I'm wrong because the market laps this shit up and demands more.

>>281089153
It was an unrecorded live event in France how did you want it to be

>>281089289
Okay I believe it now

Torishima is the new Miyazaki now? (A will create a random stupid quotes with his face on it)

>>281089273
It IS garbage, but low-IQ normies like it, it stimulates their reward centers or something so who am I to tell them that they’re wrong? The world is sliding downhill culturally due to a competency crisis and that includes Japan. It’s just part and parcel.

KnY's art looks like an autistic middle schooler's sketchbook. Gotouge's art is pencil-sketch chicken scratch and I find the character designs repulsively garish and terrible by every standard. The author seems to have a penchant for adding too many vibrant colors in order to make the characters look "unique" but it just has the opposite effect and they look ugly. It's all over the place with no consistent theme. They don't hold up without Ufotable polishing the art style and hiring all these popular seiyuu to voice these ugly characters.

Less is more and this is especially true when it comes to character designing. There's a reason why DB persevered for 40 years. Toriyama may be a forgetful bastard, but he was skilled at what he did and his designs share something in common with Gen 1 Pokemon in that being simpler and more down to earth can make a design stand out more compared to other more elaborate ones. See Charizard, Pikachu and Mewtwo? They're the most iconic Pokemon and they're all simple in design.

Picrel is probably the worst "professional" art I've seen in recent memory. The fact that the author can't draw ears or faces in perspective is VERY telling. Like, this shit can be learned in fucking high school in art clubs, maybe even middle school or self-taught with some artbooks. Not even Gege draws that badly. Even at his worst, Gege has a solid understanding on panel composition and spatial awareness. Hell, even Isayama improved over the years while drawing Attack on Titan, just compare how his art from the beginning up till now. I'm genuinely surprised how Gotouge made no improvement in their art.

>>281089893
post your art

>This thread after Infinity Castle surpassed 100m in Japan alone in less than 2 weeks a couple hours ago
I wonder whose behind this thread

>>281079276 (OP)
dragonball only got popular because of the anime

>>281080648
No. The manga went on for 2 years after the first season aired.

>>281090138
Trash will always be trash no matter how many mindless drones enjoy it.

>>281081063
Are yoy retarded? That Google translate isn't even accurate. Murata's making the distinction that it's not
>the KnY anime is amazing
but
>the KnY anime is also amazing
He's saying the adaptation could never have been as good as it was if the source material (the manga) wasn't also amazing.

281090293
Ok Jimmy.

>>281080991
Say what you will about Torishima, but he has bants.

>>281079276 (OP)
>It’s like the manga was just raw coffee beans, and the anime roasted and brewed them into something truly special.
i mean, he is not wrong. it was annoying how normalfags latched onto it after 1 episode of slop animation

>>281086569
>he says Cuckserk became shit after
True opinion

>>281090408
Meant for >>281090293

>>281090400
>He's saying the adaptation could never have been as good as it was if the source material (the manga) wasn't also amazing.
Absolute horseshit. That's like saying, 'That Oscar-winning film couldn't exist unless the unedited 500-page first draft of the script was a masterpiece.'

No it fucking didn’t. That’s not how adaptation works. Ideas are cheap. Execution is EVERYTHING like the other Anon said. That's why ONE's original OPM comic floundered in visual obscurity until Murata picked it up and turned it into a visual orgasm. By Murata's own logic, his version shouldn't have succeeded unless ONE's caveman stick-figure sketches were 'already amazing', which is bullshit. He made them amazing. That's what a great adaptation does.

The manga was the draft, and a rough one at that. What Ufotable did was take a clumsy, poorly drawn, awkwardly paced story with wooden character expressions and and slapped it with:
>Top-tier animation
>All-star seiyuu veteran cast
>Banger music
>Seamless CGI integration
>Camera pans, cinematic cuts
>Color, texture, life
Ufotable turned an average storyboard into a high production. The manga did not do that. The manga is what you turn in at the pitch meeting. The anime is the final product. There's a reason why this manga underperformed in sales for 3 years until Ufotable.

>>281090811
Then why people bought the manga after Ufotable? It's not like the rough draft got less rough

281090737
>gave himself the you
Dirty hoe

>>281080491
Based

>>281090946
Meant for >>281090737

>>281090811
>visual obscurity
Delusional faggot obsessed with style over substance.
You are the definition of a midwit

>>281079276 (OP)
He's right though another example would be Kaiju no.8 just on the premise alone,the manga has a shit tone of action worth making an anime out of but story wise isnt great.

>>281079276 (OP)
But the manga is better than the anime. I loved the manga way before the anime was a thing.

>>281090811
>Ideas are cheap. Execution is EVERYTHING

>>281090916
>Then why people bought the manga after Ufotable?
Cause they were buying the brand, not the book. When a top-tier anime adaptation blows up, people go for the manga not because it's good, but because:
>they want more content
>they want to support the series
>they want to own the "full" experience
>they want to pick up from where the anime left
People bought the source because the anime made them care about it. That's the exact fucking reverse of what should happen if the source was amazing from the start. KnY wasn't even a top-selling manga until Ufo dropped that nuke of an episode, look up sales pre-2019.
>It's not like the rough draft got less rough
True. And people still bought it. Why?
Because popularity =/= quality.
You could sell literal cowshit wrapped in gold foil with enough hype. Look up the term brand intertia. Once people are invested in the franchise emotionally, they'll lap up anything with its name on it. Which doesn't make the source look good, it's just a side effect of marketing, exposure, and emotional manipulation.

>>281091086
Are people really arguing that anime should be sloppier?

>>281079762
Torishima was a ruthless perfectionist working with a once-in-a-generation talent, and by the time the two of them were done with a chapter, every single line of art had a purpose. Most manga aren't drawn that way, and it bugs him in a way most people don't understand. It's like someone with perfect pitch listening to a local band, or a sommelier at a 'B+' restaurant. They're all in their own personal hell.

>>281091286
Replying to myself like a total faggot to point out that that's not what he actually said tho

>>281091307
Cope

>>281079276 (OP)
I wonder what he thinks about Chainsaw Man and Dandadan.

>>281079762
Anyone got that image of him being completely wrong about One Piece? He tried his hardest to keep it out of Jump, insisting that it would flop and not sell at all until another editor let One Piece in. Even if you hate it at times, One Piece sells well, meaning that he was completely wrong on that one.

>>281079276 (OP)
The anime really turned that turd of a manga into gold.

>>281079525
Dragon Ball paneling is really good, but the problem is that it doesn't fit the modern shonen.

>>281081431
Maybe he's come around on it

>>281079276 (OP)
>Demon Slayer only got popular because of the Anime
>All suits thought the same, so recent shonenslop is getting money thrown to it
>No other shonenslop has gotten close to Demon Slayer levels in popularity
At some point, you faggots have to admit that DS has something else besides just "animation".

>>281092025
Toriyama was such a fucking CHAD holy shit.

>>281092130
They never will because this Is not about facts, but feelings

>>281092155
Wait till you read Lady Red.

>>281079276 (OP)
Demon Slayer woud've been better if there was no males and was full of yurikino scenes.

>>281092130
>>Demon Slayer only got popular because of the Anime
Correct. That's not even a take, it's a documented historical reality. The numbers before E19 were fine. Mid tier and passable. Manga sales were coasting. Then E19 dropped and bam:
>KnY volumes started flying off shelves
>Backlogs got reprinted
>Mugen Train became the highest grossing film of Japan
>Gotouge's amateur storytelling was framed like a religious text
You wanna know why? Cause the anime was peak marketing.
>>All suits thought the same, so recent shonenslop is getting money thrown to it
If anything, this exposes the industry's desperation and how fake the hype machine is. If executives are throwing money at mid tier manga hoping to recreate KnY's lightning-in-a-bottle moment, then guess what? It means they know that shit was a fluke.
>>No other shonenslop has gotten close to Demon Slayer levels in popularity
You just admitted it without realizing it. No other series with equally mid manga source material has recreated the exact circumstances
>Backed by Aniplex (Sony)
>Animated by Ufotable (Sony’s go-to)
>Shilled by Sony Music Japan across every vertical media outlet
>Rode the Covid lockdown when everyone was stuck at home binging content
Marketing 101
>At some point, you faggots have to admit that DS has something else besides just "animation".
Sure has
>Corporate synergy
>Strategic timing
>Hollywood-level shilling
>An emotional cheat code plot made for mass appeal
>And a fanbase of casuals, normalfags, and terminally online nerds willing to throw their paycheck at merch
That "something else"? Called perfect storm marketing. Cause if it was about the manga, Gotouge's art would've sold before E19 but it didn't cause it's mid-tier slop that got astroturfed.

>>281079276 (OP)
Seething lol

>>281080135
>literal twitter who
Lmao

>>281091700
He probably thinks CSM is too pretentious (and if so, he's right).

>>281092025
>He tried his hardest to keep it out of Jump
That's a lie. He thought the paneling needed improvement before it was published. He was right and still is. Look at the mess the manga is now that no editor has the balls to criticize Oda.

>>281092677
>That's a lie
He genuinely thought it wouldn't sell and was forced to admit that he lost and Oda won to Oda's face.

>>281092410
>No mention of the story and character designs being so instantly recognizable that stores worldwide started selling Demon Slayer fabrics.
>No mention of the battle system being so distinct that slapping “Breath of ” on anything instantly makes you think of Demon Slayer.
>No mention of the well-crafted story about family and bonds that captured the hearts of millions.
I know people love to shit on Demon Slayer, but this is pure COPE at this point.
>Sure has
>Corporate synergy
>Strategic timing
>Hollywood-level shilling
>An emotional cheat code plot made for mass appeal
>And a fanbase of casuals, normalfags, and terminally online nerds willing to throw their paycheck at merch
Do people forget when Toriko was shilled alongside Dragon Ball and One Piece? Or how Chainsaw Man had Sony Music throwing its entire department behind it? Do they remember how Sunrise poured all its money and resources into Sacred Seven, only for Tiger & Bunny, with its shoestring production, to completely crush it? I swear, some people talk with the kind of confidence only ignorance can give. If success only required corporate meddling and a soap-opera plot, Demon Slayer would already have plenty of competition.

Isn't the point of anime to move manga units? It's a 30-minute commercial for the source to be known. Also, this is why manga that doesn't move the needle, even with an anime, announce its ending, the recent case being Sakamoto Days (not confirmed, but it points to)

>>281092995
>No mention of the story and character designs being so instantly recognizable
You mean Ufotable's polished, color-coded clown circus that made half those designs iconic through consistent, high-budget exposure? Yeah. The anime made those designs sellable, not the manga. In the manga, everyone looks like they crawled out of a sketchpad from a bored middle school kid. Gotouge can't even draw fucking ears or eyes in perspective.
Tengen in the manga looks like a YGO reject and Zenitsu looks like someone put vomit through a kaleidoscope.The designs became 'iconic' because of anime quality control and marketing, not because they were artistically strong.
>>No mention of the battle system being so distinct that slapping “Breath of ” on anything instantly makes you think of Demon Slayer.
Because of the anime's visuals, and not the generic power system that's not even a power system. It's basic naming convention slapped onto sword styles.
>>No mention of the well-crafted story about family and bonds that captured the hearts of millions
What 'well-crafted' story? The fucking fujoshi fanfic community writes better sibling dynamics than Gotouge. Nezuko’s personality? Sleepy mute plushie who kicks things. Tanjiro? The nicest cardboard cutout of a protagonist. What actual arcs of struggle, conflict, or evolving dynamics do they share? None. They’re apart 90% of the series. You could replace Nezuko with a cat and the story would be emotionally identical. And the rest of the “bonds”? Screaming Hashira backstories dumped 2 minutes before they die. PowerPoint-tier flashbacks with dialogue like "My heart hurts with this burden I carry of loving too much."
>Toriko was shilled
And Toriko failed. You know why? Cause no one gave a fuck. The anime was cheap and the timing was off. The genre fusion of food fights didn't click. This is not a win for your argument, this proves that shilling without proper timing and execution leads to jackshit.

>>281092995
>Or how Chainsaw Man had Sony Music throwing its entire department behind it?
And Chainsaw Man still sold gangbusters without the anime unlike KnY that underperformed for 3 full years until Ufotable bailed it out. Tatsuki Fujimoto is a hack and his art is comparatively as bad as Koyoharu Gotouge's, but his manga alone got traction because it (was) a good product that could stand o its own merits. Cultural penetration before adaptation. KnY needed Ufotable and E19 to go nuclear. That's a fact.
>Sunrise poured all its money and resources into Sacred Seven, only for Tiger & Bunny, with its shoestring production, to completely crush it?
Yup. And that's literally the fucking point. Sometimes money and backing aren't enough, you need the perfect storm.
Tiger & Bunny had an original concept, strong word of mouth, and character dynamics people could latch onto. KnY had the same, just artificially constructed via Sony's marketing machine and not as original as Tiger & Bunny was. You're proving that KnY was lucky, timely, and executed perfectly by its production team, not Gotouge. At this point, you're arguing against yourself and don't even see it.
>If success only required corporate meddling and a soap-opera plot, Demon Slayer would already have plenty of competition.
It does have competition. It just didn’t have Ufotable's Unlimited Budget Works, Sony's infinite promo campaign, or Covid-lockdown turbo exposure. KnY is the OPN S1 of its time
>Amazing anime
>Mid source material (I'm of course talking about ONE)
>Worshipped by anime-only fans
>Forgotten once the adaptation hype dies down
Take away the anime, and nobody's talking about this manga in 2025. You're not defending KnY, you're defending a product launch not a legacy because it has no real legacy.

>>281093542
>And Chainsaw Man still sold gangbusters without the anime unlike KnY that underperformed for 3 full years until Ufotable bailed it out. Tatsuki Fujimoto is a hack and his art is comparatively as bad as Koyoharu Gotouge's, but his manga alone got traction because it (was) a good product that could stand o its own merits
what happened to "popularity =/= quality"

Saw the anime and it was a whole lot of nothing, it mean it wasn't offensively terrible but it does absolutely nothing special that hasn't been done to death in the genre, literally just another shonenshit, so I've no idea what's supposed to be special about it. It's fight after fight after fight, enemies are overcome, techniques are called, training is had, generic shonenshit comedy bits, etc.

Also a number of things were suspiciously similar to Sousei no Onmyouji (that one was also slop but it was my slop ;_; )

>>281093271
>Yeah. The anime made those designs sellable
Those moves have to come from a source, anon. If making them sellable by pure animation was all you needed. God Eater by Ufotable should also be a pillar of the industry, and it isn't.
>Gotouge can't even draw fucking ears or eyes in perspective.
Isayama can't draw for shit either, and that didn't stop SNK from being popular. You also have ONE over there.
>What actual arcs of struggle, conflict, or evolving dynamics do they share?
They have a lot of them, like when Gyuutaro and his sister served as mirror relationships, but you are gonna say that doesn't count and it is shit. So yeah...
>The nicest cardboard cutout of a protagonist.
On his first encounter with Genya, he breaks his arm. Anon, have you watched the show without SEETHING googles? I think that's the problem.
>and the timing was off.
This sounds like a simple and cheap excuse at this point. Toriko had DB and One Piece by its side, colossal titles. OP at that point had shit animation, the same with DB Super first arcs, and that didn't stop them from being giant.
>And Chainsaw Man still sold gangbusters without the anime
And how are the sales nowadays? Ok.
>you need the perfect storm.
And nothing that Gotouge made prior had a say on it? Storywriting? Character design and power system? Hmmm?
>It just didn’t have Ufotable's Unlimited Budget Works
Talking about UBW, why didn't the anime gain that DS traction? Same studio and battle composition? Come on anon, give Gotouge the merit.
>KnY is the OPN S1 of its time
Styill dind't reach DS levels of popularity
>you're defending a product launch not a legacy because it has no real legacy.
Since you can see the future, give me the lottery numbers anon, pretty please.

>>281093821
>Those moves have to come from a source, anon.
If the execution of that source is dogshit, the source doesn't matter.Ufotable made God Eater and Tales of Zestiria, both flopped in relevance. Why? Because the characters and their visual shorthand didn’t resonate. Demon Slayer’s fight choreography, elemental gimmicks, and “Breath of X” names mean fuckall if the anime didn’t crank them up to max aesthetic and branded the shit out of them. Without the anime, Tanjiro’s water breathing looks like scribbled worms on crumpled napkins.
>Isayama can't draw for shit either
Isayama was already self-aware, which is why he built his story around tension, mystery, political thriller elements, and existential horror, something Gotouge can't write. And guess what? He got better. Look at SnK art from chapter 1 to the end. Now look at Gotouge's art from vol 1 to the finale, they're identical. Gotouge made no growth, no change and no improvement in 4 years. And don't compare him to ONE. He knows his strength is writing, so he deliberately collaborated with better artists. Gotouge is pretending to be both an artist and a writer and failing both.
>Gyuutaro and his sister served as mirror relationships
Gyutaro’s flashback is dumped 10 seconds before his death where it doesn’t even matter. It’s cheap, manipulative writing with no setup. That’s not a “mirror relationship”, that’s just cookie-cutter trauma porn dropped on your lap to make you feel bad just in time for the bad guy to explode. Also, Tanjiro and Nezuko’s bond is never tested. Never strained and never deepened. It’s just a "generic brother saves cardboard sister" loop for 200 chapters. It’s boring as fuck.

HOLY CHADGON CHADLL TRVTHNVKE

>>281079276 (OP)
Demon Slayer is mid,
>BUT
At least it was wrapped up relatively quickly. Dragon Ball was entirely way too fucking long, so was Naruto, so was One Piece, so was everything else.
At least Demon Slayer with its mid story and good animation has the decency to not be 55 volumes long.

>hates all moeshit for pedophiles
>hates all shounenshit for zoomers
Yup yup, spoken like a true SCHOLAR.

>>281093821
>On his first encounter with Genya, he breaks his arm.
And how many chapters before and after that does he act like Saint Jesus? He’s the nicest, most vanilla motherfucker in WSJ.
>Toriko had DB and One Piece by its side
You mean it got shilled next to GOATs and STILL failed? You just made my point AGAIN. Toriko had corporate shilling but didn’t click. Why? Cause no synergy, no timing, no cultural spark. KnY worked because everything aligned perfectly.
Mid source, peak animation, corporate synergy, lockdown viewer boost, TikTok-ready visuals and emotionally easy to digest.
>And how are the sales nowadays?
Still sold like hotcakes pre-anime unlike the mid KnY manga and CSM wasn’t even finished when it went viral. Fujimoto is a hack, but he didn't need Mappa's saving like Gotouge needed Ufotable's saving. KnY manga only blew up at the end of its lifetime and still yet zero buzz exists now outside of anime releases cause it has no staying power.
>nothing that Gotouge made prior had a say on it?
Gotouge created the base product. That’s all. The anime transformed it. Gotouge didn’t animate, cast seiyuu, time music, draw backgrounds, or choreograph fight cinematics. They just handed over a rough sketch. It’s the difference between a garage band demo and a Grammy winning production. Same song idea, massively different impact.
>Talking about UBW, why didn't the anime gain that DS traction?
Cause UBW waa targeted at Fate fans, not general audiences like KnY was.
>Styill dind't reach DS levels of popularity
OPM didn’t have corporate cancer backing it and was based on a webcomic.
It went viral off pure animation quality and meme value. KnY went viral because of a multi-billion dollar machine engineered to do so.

>Daily KnY jeremy seethe thread
Ever since the damn movie trailer huh?

>>281094557
Cope more Jeremy Clover, your tears are delicious. Even the man who helped make Dragon Ball says your ass manga is ass, kek.

>>281094588
Cope about what? Kimetsu getting the best treatment other manga would kill their own mothers for while some fossils seethe about it? Im living it up.

>>281094653
>i-i'm not coping!!
That's right Jeremy, cope.

Demon Slayer is a super basic shonen, a couple villain and training arcs and a boss battle, that's it. The fact it ends definitively with defeating the bad-guy still makes it better than most shonen though.

>>281094670
Do tell me what I have to cope about? Ill wait.

>>281094061
>Ufotable made God Eater and Tales of Zestiria, both flopped in relevance. Why? Because the characters and their visual shorthand didn’t resonate.
>“Breath of X” names mean fuckall if the anime didn’t crank them up to max aesthetic.
At this point, anon, you are making a fool of yourself by trying to be contrarian and not admitting that Gotouge's world-building and characterization have a say on why something was better received while similar products failed.
>he deliberately collaborated with better artists.
Said better artist has tanked the sales tho... Pretty graphics can't sell a story by itself.
>It’s cheap, manipulative writing with no setup.
Sure, but such a cheap and manipulative story should be easy to emulate, so why has no one been able to replicate it?
>Mid source, peak animation, corporate synergy, lockdown viewer boost, TikTok-ready visuals and emotionally easy to digest.
That's God Eater, the tales series and all the fate movies. Sorry anon, at this point "no sinergy" sounds like a cope.
>still yet zero buzz exists now outside of anime releases cause it has no staying power.
This is such a contradiction anon.
>Gotouge created the base product. That’s all.
That's the thing that matters the most anon. lol Propaganda without a strong product is useless, that's why current shonenslop can't touch DS, even with all the money poured into it.
>It’s the difference between a garage band demo and a Grammy winning production.
And in the whole story of music, we have garage bands destroying corporate fabrications. Anon... pls. The whole culture of music comes from some kid in a shit town doing magic because of raw talent.
>Cause UBW waa targeted at Fate fans, not general audiences like KnY was
Now this is COPE.
>It went viral off pure animation quality and meme value
Now this is being completely obtuse about One's writing, such a shame.
>KnY went viral because of a multi-billion dollar machine engineered to do so.
That's like every anime created anon.

>>281094745
Demid Slayer? Shitty manga that got carried by the anime.
Torishima? Man who helped create Dragon Ball, Dragon Quest and Dr. Slump calls out Demid Slayer for being slop and the Demid Slayer author for being a fraud (she probably sucked A LOT of cocks too at the casting couch)
Jeremy Clover? Coping

>>281094748
You're wasting your time anon. This is just another one of Jeremy's meltdowns. He's been at it for a whole month straight.

>>281079276 (OP)
Same thing with dragon ball or just any mamga in general no matter how good they can be. Without the anime dragon ball would have never been popular worldwide

>>281087802
The what? Who?

>>281094816
Kny making baller money with SS tier anime and movies, 230m in circulation manga, smashing records like I smashed your ugly mom while ex editor yells at clouds and dragon ball daima flops. Winning feels great.

>>281094893
And the manga still has zero staying power, the man who helped made Dragon Ball (will outlive your entire bloodline btw) still called Demid Slayer ass, and I'll be smashing your mom in your third world shack as Saudi Arabia builds a Dragon Ball theme park
Cry more Jeremy Clover kek

>>281094893
Yeah, Daima itself proves him wrong
Anime had incredible animation ans choreography, and yet it was still shit
Kimetsu had a great story that was gripping and engaging, with stakes and great characters
No matter how good the animation is, if the story is not good enough it will never get anywhere and will flop, like Daima

>>281094949
Stop spamming the same words over and over you brainless retard

>>281094949
What's that? Couldnt hear you over the sound of 20b yen in Japan alone.

>>281094968
Good thing Daima was a success then lmao. Even with a Rugrats spin off, Dragon Ball mogs the industry
It will outlive whatever overrated zoomer slop you shill

>>281079276 (OP)
He's right of course. But hey, stuff like K-On! and Bocchi the Rock only got popular because of their anime adaptations too.

>>281082207
I maintain the revelation that breath techniques are completely imaginary was a massive mistake on Gotogue's part

>>281095025
>weak yen from a dying nation
KEKAROO. You can brag when the camels make a theme park just for your shitty series. You're beneath my feet, mutt.

>>281094190
>KnY
>22 volumes of a rinse & repeat basic mess
>DB, OP and Naruto
>200 volumes of kino fights, kino choreographies and kino lore

Cry harder with your mediocrity.

>>281095093
>Saudi Arabia
Good thing Japan isnt a third world shithole with goat fuckers.

>>281095050
Daima had little to do with that, the revenue is from the games, especially rhe gacha games. Toei has rights to dragon ball and gets constant money from all merch. But Daima in specific? It floped so badly nobody is even buying merch for it.
I like dragon ball a lot, but I also love Kimetsu, as a critical thinking person that doesnt lick the boots of my favorite series I can admit that Daima was terrible in every way, can you, anon?

>>281095117
>Season 5 aka the season where we commit 40% of the content to filler, aka we'll wrap this boss fight up next season with a movie, you can skip it if you want
ok

>>281095093
Thats never actually getting made is it.

>>281095183
It's hilarious how Daimaleeches always try to pretend all that money is coming from Daima alone.
Meanwhile in reality.
All the money keeps coming from everywhere else, and all that everything else is doing? Super and Z related things lol.

>>281095163
Still got a theme park just for Dragon Ball made by the camels and backed by the Prince of Saudi Arabia himself.

Japan's economy is SO shitty that they're worse then Greece, kek. Your zoomer shonen slop WILL die and Dragon Ball will piss on its grave.

>>281095248
>OMG SS4 IS NOW CANON BASED TORIYAMA THANK YOU FOR YOUR LAST GIFT
>Does even worse than a fucking OG DB Bulma figure
Kekaroooooo.

>>281092980
This is the interview he gave at Japan EXPO about a month ago:
>You opposed the first publication of One Piece. Was it because Eiichirō Oda had something specific in mind and didn't want to deviate from it?

>So, let's be clear: I didn't have a problem with the story of One Piece or its characters. The characters were fun, and frankly, I thought it was a very good manga, but there were technical shortcomings in the way it portrayed this universe. I think that structurally speaking, at that time, there wasn't a layout that allowed children to understand what was going on. Basically, I told him that if we didn't fix that, what he wanted to convey wouldn't be understood by children. I simply asked him to fix it, and it was really difficult to do.

>We had a debate within the publishing house about whether to try it and see if it would work out, if he would really manage to correct his flaws so he could launch it. We debated it for two hours, and we were really divided into two camps within the editorial team. As a result, since we couldn't decide, but we were really divided, I concluded that there was potential, and so I decided, at that point, that the series had to be published. That's how it happened.

>Do you think his work has evolved for the better over time?

>At the time, I thought it had improved, but then it deteriorated. I think his tantō (editor) can no longer tell him things. The author wins over the publisher.

https://www.franceinfo.fr/culture/bd/mangas/entretien-japan-expo-les-mangas-ont-tous-le-meme-gout-on-a-perdu-la-construction-du-manga-avec-une-identite-artistique-regrette-kazuhiko-torishima-l-editeur-de-dragon-ball_7358658.html

>>281079276 (OP)
And what is your point exactly? It's still popular

>>281080135
>Your manga
what the fuck is going on in these shitposters' "minds"?

>>281080135
Honestly I don’t see how this is even debatable…has anyone even attempting to argue otherwise read the manga?

Demon Slayer is the Taylor Swift of animanga. It's incredibly successful, but no one knows exactly why, because its fans only care about sales and records, never about the content.

>>281079276 (OP)
And that's correct. And I bet Shueisha is fucking pissed the manga ended so soon. They could have milked this One Piece style.

>>281094748
>Gotouge's world-building and characterization
LMAOOO. KnY’s “world-building” is literally just Japan with demons. That shit is paint-by-numbers shounen slop. Demon moons, swords, secret corps, trauma flashbacks, it’s a fucking shonen Mad Libs. There’s no deep lore, no mythos, no faction dynamics. The whole “breath style” system is literally just a rebranded elemental gimmick. The author shot themself in the foot by confirming that the breath styles are all hallucinations and not real.
>Pretty graphics can't sell a story by itself.
Then why did KnY not sell until E19 aired? Why did Mugen Train break box office records off a TV continuation arc? Why did the manga coast for years with average sales before the anime dropped? You’re face-planting into your own contradiction so hard it’s practically a crater.
>why has no one been able to replicate it?
Cause replication isn’t the point. You can’t manufacture a perfect storm. KnY’s explosion was a statistical anomaly. Covid lockdowns, Sony backing, ultra accessible themes, and anime that hit every single trending algorithm. It’s not cause the writing is “unique.” It’s cause the moment was.
>That's God Eater, the tales series and all the fate movies.
Nice cope. Those shows didn’t ride global trauma, didn’t get infinite budget attention, and didn’t have social media grooming it into a phenomenon. KnY was the algorithm’s golden boy. God Eater was a footnote.
>This is such a contradiction anon.
Nope, didn't contradict. No one gives a fuck about KnY when there's no anime airing.
>That's the thing that matters the most anon
Then where’s Gotouge’s next hit after half Knzy ended half a decade ago? Where’s their follow-up work if they’re so masterful? Oh right, they disappeared, because they have nothing left without that anime scaffolding. They peaked off someone else’s animation.

>>281095677
>Release a new volume
>The entire last arc was a dream
>the modern day high school BS was a dream
>add 3 more arcs and a time warp
MILKING STATUS: INITIATE

>>281079276 (OP)
>Editors should have encouraged the author to study why the fight scenes in Dragon Ball were so amazing.

Every mangaka should take a page from Inoue and study Dragon Ball before making a manga.

>>281094748
>garage bands destroying corporate fabrications.
Except KnY is the corporate fabrication. Your metaphor is doing donuts on your logic. Gotouge didn’t make music in their bedroom, they got hoisted onto a stadium stage by Sony’s music, TV, merch, and animation arms. You can’t call it punk rock when it was platinum packaged from day one.
>Now this is COPE.
Nope. UBW wasn’t designed to be viral. It was a passion project for a niche fanbase. KnY was engineered for mass appeal. Comparing them is like comparing an underground art film to a Marvel release and whining why the art film didn’t outsell Endgame.
>Now this is being completely obtuse about One's writing, such a shame.
ONE has more originality in his sketches than Gotouge has in their entire publication. His stories bend tropes. Gotouge’s is a trope. OPM is satire with pathos. KnY is a sob-story generator running on Hallmark-tier emotions.
>That's like every anime created anon.
Wrong. Most anime wish they had that corporate backing. Look at how many incredible manga got shitty anime and flopped. You really think every anime gets the Sony industrial complex launching it into orbit? Fuck no. KnY isn’t proof of good writing. It’s proof that if you wrap dog food in gold foil, enough people will eat it and think it’s gourmet.

>>281095293
Third world apes will never be relevant even with all that oil money they are still not classified as a first world country. The average Jap is worth more than all of the middle east. Congrats on getting a theme park built on a manure mound I suppose kek.

>>281095409
/v/ console war refugees treat manga like its a sports team. Brown skin behavior, I know.

>>281095248
>>281095308
Daima SS4 makes no sense. Why the monkey fur if he doesn't get the form after turning into a big monkey?

>>281095709
>Then why did KnY not sell until E19 aired?
Episode 19 is the perfect example of why the anime is the main responsible for success. Usually when there's an adaptation the readers of the original already know which scenes will get hype and wait for them. This didn't happen with KnY because what happens in episode 19 was nothing special in the manga.

He's seething because kimetsu will surpass dragon ball lifetime sales soon.

>>281095854
...Which only happened in the delusional third Demon Slayer fag's head. Meanwhile, in reality, Dragon Ball has already outgrossed Gundam, lol.

Again, you're beneath my feet, mutt. And so is your zoomer shonen slop.

>>281095837
You can tell SENILEyama didn't even bother watching GT before "designing" Daima's SS4.
He just got told by Iyoku that he has to add SS4 to Daima because gotta nostalgia pander so he just recolored it and called it a day. Exactly the same kind of lazy rehash Beast was, which was yet again another Iyoku "suggestion" since he's the one who asked to shoehorn Gohan into the Piccolo movie.
No thought, no explanation, no meaning, just look at the thing you saw as a kid and clap.

>>281095730
Nah. A manga like Dragon Ball would flop hard these days. And why? Because today's reader doesn't want fun choreography, they want lore, they want you to explain who the MC's father is, what happened in the villain's past, why the supporting character knows that special move and whether or not the main heroine married the hero.

>>281096008
you can still have that though. Just when the fights happen, make it easy to follow

>>281096008
By that logic Super would have flopped and yet it did not.
By that same logic Daima would have been amazingly successful between muh lore and muh adobencha and yet all people are screaming for is more Super.

>>281095709
>>281095709
>Deflects why other Ufotable works with more established brands like Fate and Tales of didn't get the same traction as DS while having the same animation power put into it. Fate also has Sony on its back.
You are making a fool of yourself anon. But keep on going.

>>281095852
>Episode 19 is the perfect example of why the anime is the main responsible for success.
Anime is only propaganda anon. The base product has to be good, or it can only take you that far, Kaiju 8 being the best example. Episode 19 highlights the relationship between Nezuko and Tanjiro, that's all on Gotouge's writing. Be obtuse all you want.

>>281095787
Actually, it does lel. The Arabs are literally buying up European football clubs, investing in US tech, own a large stake in Nintendo, Japanese video game devs and oh yeah building a Dragon Ball park so fucking massive it makes your Universal Studios corner display look like an anime-themed bathroom stall. Meanwhile, Japan's over here drowning in debt, exporting nothing but anime, old cars, and depression. Japan's economy is SO shitty the yen is at its weakest in over 30 years, kek.

>>281096008
That's what Manhwa and Manhua are for. If I want to read some shitty power scaling martial arts story with no plot there's 10,000 of them being made in Korea and China every year.

>>281090138
The fact you can immediately recognize him based on the way he types is hilarious.

>>281081865
Based.

>>281096075
Fate’s audience = niche as fuck.
It’s an IP deep-rooted in Type-Moon autism with a mountain of VN baggage, spinoffs, timelines, and lore that a casual viewer has zero hope of understanding. Try explaining “Saber is Artoria but also a lion but also not in Fate/Extra but also maybe a dolphin in Fate/Grand Carnival” to a new viewer and watch their brain liquefy. Fate isn’t “made for everyone,” it’s made for spergs who read flowcharts.

Tales of? It’s a fucking JRPG adaptation. You already started with a filter: “Do you like anime?” -> “Do you play JRPGs?” -> “Do you play this specific niche JRPG franchise?” The answer 90% of the time is “No.” Now compare that to KnY, a story that you can summarize in 5 seconds:
>"Boy kills demons to save sister."
Boom. Global accessibility.
Characters look like they were designed to sell toys, not confuse lorehounds. No backreading, no lorebook diving, no prequels or spinoffs required. It’s literally anime 101 for normalfags. And they timed it to perfection: Ufotable’s top-tier animation dropped during lockdowns, with TikTok virality, Sony Music shilling, and infinite merchandise pipelines.

Fate had Sony too? Cool. Sony didn’t drop Mugen Train tier cinematic releases worldwide with Fate. Why? Cause Fate fans already have their wallets open 24/7, and Sony didn’t need to build a global casual audience, they already had their niche cult. KnY got full corporate simulation treatment. Sony saw a goldmine in accessible slop for mass appeal and ran with it. It got primetime shilling like it was the second coming of Pokemon. That’s not the same as just “having Sony”, it’s about how much ammo they actually fire.

So no, motherfucker, it’s not the source that made KnY a phenomenon, it’s how it was dressed up, propped up, and weaponized as the perfect storm.

>>281096147
>I activate lotus of the 10,000 punch
>Nice try, but I have been training for a ten thousand years to activate a my super aura.
>Shing
>Well played master, but this fight hasn't yet a begin yet.
>So much is a true, we must give our audience three more volumes of us exchanging blows, becoming closer, and eventually homosexual love
>I am already feeling it! Aura of a the 10,000 punch nullification aura
>Ten thousand and a one punch lotus.
Fuck
>You got me
>Yes it was a good fight
>Kissing

>>281096138
>The Arabs
Lol. They will never be relevant no matter how much money their prince throws around. Even india is more relevant than them.

>>281092410
>peak marketing
Kys one pisser

Before you start trash-talking Torishima, remember: he's not only the guy who discovered Toriyama, encouraged the creation of Dragon Ball and helped Weekly Shonen Jump sell 6 million copies a week. He's also the guy who promoted this trend of making television adaptations to boost manga sales. Before him, only already popular manga usually got adaptations. So, in a way, if a manga with unimpressive sales like Kimetsu no Yaiba managed to be adapted and become a phenomenon, it's thanks to him.

>>281079276 (OP)
Is he wrong? I think everyone agrees upon the manga not being good but the anime polished it.
>>281096283
This. If Fate or Tales were given that exact same moment, ADHD pacing, normalfag bait designs, pandemic boost, and aggressive shilling, maybe they’d pop off too. But they didn't.

Demon Slayer was not better, it was just better timed and more marketable.

>>281096349
Torishima also had a hand in creating Dragon Quest.
Dude's ridiculously influential. Every day I find out he had a hand on some extremely successful franchise one way or another.
If even stubborn pig-headed bastard that was Toriyama listened to him it's for a reason. Dude knows his shit.
>B-But he didn't like wan piss!!!!
Okay, so? Everyone has misses. You're gonna call someone a fraud because they missed once out of a hundred? Get real.

>>281096024
>make it easy to follow
Easy-to-follow action means better paneling which means dragging the plot. ADHD kids don't like that. See: >>281096147
>>281096043
Super is carried by the name and the anime, no one really cares about the manga. And Super has more content than the original Dragon Ball.

>>281079276 (OP)
I thought this was common knowledge, and it's not even a bad thing. kny it's still good, just not really good.

>>281096461
>Super is carried by the name and the anime
Then why is Daima not as successful if not even more successful than Super?
It should be carried by just the name according to your logic and it has MUH LORE so that should totally automatically make it superior to Super.
>And Super has more content than the original Dragon Ball.
It objectively does not.
DB has at least twice as many arcs as Super does. And that's with Super having the luxury of having movies counting as "arcs".
You're simply delusional.

>>281089273
Ufotable's fate adaptations were also pretty much, not only did they misunderstood the mechanics or themes of the fight, they also messed up on the characterizations or outright skipped most of the important details

>>281079276 (OP)
KNY is the most "safe" shounen out there. it follows the shonen formula and doesn't deviate from it in the slightest. i don't like it the same way i like other shonen though. it doesn't take any risks, and doesn't try to innovate in any way, shape or form. if you've seen a couple shounens, you've already seen KNY. it only became popular because anime got popular at the same time the anime was airing, and so normalfags got exposed to this as their entry shonen/anime, and they loved it. but for anyone that's been watching anime for a long time there's nothing really new in it. the characters are bland, the story is boring, the fights are fine (anime at least manga is just bad), it's really just pretty colors and a good adaptation by ufotable that made it popular

>>281096283
>Fate’s audience = niche as fuck.
>Tales of? It’s a fucking JRPG adaptation.
So, first you say DS was a mid story with mid manga sales that with some GOOD anime adaptation could be a global phenomenon but then it didn't work the same for established brands while they used the same GOOD animation? This is now disingenious as hell. Sorry anon, but you lack logic, and you are just arguing to be a contrarian.
>Ufotable’s top-tier animation dropped during lockdowns
Episode 19 dropped in what year anon? What is Fate/Zero, and when it was released? I'm sorry anon, you are writing total nonsense.
>Sony didn’t need to build a global casual audience
Yes anon, we know companies are well known to not care about making more profit. Yup. LMAO are you reading what you have written?
>It got primetime shilling like it was the second coming of Pokemon.
And people are still trying to build Pokemon Killers to no avail. That should give you a clue. What was Pokemon's Coronavirus?
>how it was dressed up, propped up, and weaponized as the perfect storm.
That's how plenty of projects are built nowadays, and no one has touched DS. I know is hard, something you hate is popular, but you have to admit that just good animation and corpo presence isn't enough.

>>281096543
>KNY is the most "safe" shounen out there.
It isn't, DS has gruesome deaths and lots of blood, it isn't family friendly by any standard, and people love it globally.

>>281096474
OP post makes what he said sound worse than what he actually said.
>>281080609

>>281096075
>Anime is only propaganda anon. The base product has to be good, or it can only take you that far
Anime and manga are different mediums. What's good in one can be bad in another, and vice versa. Berserk, Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer, Uzumaki and Blade of the Immortal are examples of praised mangas with shitty adaptations.
>Episode 19 highlights the relationship between Nezuko and Tanjiro, that's all on Gotouge's writing.
Episode 19 has a song, movement, colors and lights. This makes it totally different from the manga. Be obtuse all you want.

>>281096442
He was right >>281095349

>>281079276 (OP)
no shit

>>281096658
Pretty much.
What people have been saying for years, OP got so big that all of Oda's new editors are just his bitches and no one has the balls to tell him no anymore.

>>281096614
>Berserk, Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer, Uzumaki and Blade of the Immortal are examples of praised mangas with shitty adaptations.
This made me remember how Okamoto Lynn said that he was surprised to know that Berserk wasn't the top seller in Young Animal, but Futari Ecchi was the king over there. What you believe is praised and worth of global recognition isn't what connects with real life anon. Also, Blue Lock had a powerpoint season 2 and it still is a best seller. So yeah, animation isn't the thing anon. OP had an atrocious adaptation for decades, and is still a manga Pilar, just recently got a boost in animation and it isn't reaching DS either... so... what is it?
>Episode 19 has a song, movement, colors and lights.
Things that are easily replicated anon, so why DanDaDan, Kaiju 9, Fire Force, Solo Leveling aren't reaching DS levels? We are in the age where anime is more accessible than in any other age, they have it more easier than DS, so why haven't they reach that level? Animation, sakuga, and pretty colors aren't it.

>>281080192
Ok this one is BS
Torishima would love the fights in KGB

>>281079276 (OP)
truthnukers

>>281092410
>Mugen Train became the highest grossing film of Japan
You forgot that year was also the worst year for japanese cinema income overall.
The true battle is with the infinity castle trilogy and the yen at an all time low.

>>281096614
>Episode 19 has a song, movement, colors and lights. This makes it totally different from the manga
Like...every anime adaptation of a manga?

>>281092113
Modern shonen paneling is the same as dragon ball. The difference is there infodump on the middle of the fight.
Beside that, the paneling is the same - keeping the same rhythm during the fight to keep the tension on the reader balanced -.

>>281081407
>he's so flawless
>that's why he's flawed
lol

>>281099053
Tanjiro is a trash character, yes

>>281081640
maybe only in spicmerica, in japan the manga is as much of a classic as literature

>>281081063
what a dumb idiot. OPM was only popular because of the season 1 animation. s2 proved that it only got cared because of the animation and how every tard is only talking about the anime for season 3 hopes

>>281099334
You’re opinion is trash

>>281096604
>So, first you say DS was a mid story with mid manga sales that with some GOOD anime adaptation could be a global phenomenon
Yeah, because not all IPs are created equal, dumbass. You could put James Cameron's budget into a fucking audiobook of tax law, doesn't mean people are gonna show up in theaters. Fate is a lore swamp. Tales is a JRPG footnote. KnY is elevator-pitch simple and designed like a Pixar script for maximum emotional baby food digestibility. It's digestible content for people who get scared by Berserk and confused by Evangelion. It was the right content at the right time, served with platinum production.
>Episode 19 dropped in what year anon?
2019. You know what happened right after that? Lockdowns. Guess what people did? Binged content. Word of mouth exploded. The anime wasn’t finished when lockdown hit, so the momentum surged into the manga, the merch, the movie (Hiroyuki Nakano's words btw). Then Mugen Train dropped in 2020 in a pandemic and the rest is history. So yeah, it's called a delayed explosion, not a contradiction.SknY was riding a wave. And when the wave hit in 2020, it was ready to detonate because it had the perfect hook + production + emotional manipulation combo baked in.
>companies are well known to not care about making more profit.
Never said they don't care. I said Sony didn't need to mass-market Fate the way it did for KnY. It didn't target Fate at general audiences because it's not built for general audiences. Sony looked at KnY and said: “This can go mainstream. Get to work.” With Fate, they keep milking that for gacha money and otaku wallets. That's a different battlefield. You don't use the same gun for trench warfare and street fighting.

>>281080068
Kek as always

>>281096604
>What was Pokemon's Coronavirus?
Pokemon WAS the virus, lmao. It exploded in 1996 with the full multi-media death squad: games, anime, cards, merch all at once. That was the prototype for synergy execution. KnY followed that template during a literal global lockdown, when everyone was stuck at home scrolling TikTok and Twitter. That's not 'disingenuous', that's marketing reality.
>plenty of projects are built nowadays, and no one has touched DS.
Yup. Because it's not just a blueprint, it's a perfect storm. You can follow the recipe and still fuck up the cake if you don't have the timing, the tech, or the same ingredients. KnYr hit when it needed to, with zero competition, peak animation buzz, and pandemic virality.
>I know is hard, something you hate is popular
Cope. It's not about “hate,” it's about calling a duck a fucking duck. KnY is a corporate masterstroke built on mid-tier bones. Without Ufotable, it wouldn’t even be in the top 50 best-selling manga of all time. The manga would end, it would fade into obscurity among other underselling Jump manga and no one would care about it, not even you. The source is weak. The execution was industrial-grade polish. That's all.

>>281079276 (OP)
The anime is worse for me because of the pacing and comedic scenes translating poorly into the medium. It's pretty though.

>>281080135
I'm so sick of social media retards spamming the crying emoji over ever little thing. Shit was only ever funny once when some elephant was crying over lolis.

>>281099825
See >>281080660 and >>281088773
So cry more, faggot. Torishima just said what everyone was thinking, the manga got carried by the anime and the source material isn't good on retrospective. When all is said and done, Demon Slayer will age like milk.

>>281099904
The only crying here is you who still needed someone to validate "what everyone was thinking". You're nothing special and you'll never be special. Like sheep following a herd.

>>281100144
>You're nothing special and you'll never be special. Like sheep following a herd.
Funny words coming from a KnYfag, rofl
Your fanbase are the biggest NPCs there is out there

>>281080706
>>281080731
He's right. Oda doesn't listen to editors anymore and they're too afraid to say no to his stupid shitty ideas. He's high off his own supply. That's why the second half of Wano has been so terrible.

>>281079276 (OP)
Torishima cooked. Demon Slayer is ugly, the fights are incomprehensible, and he says it would have been better if they had given advice to the author of Demon Slayer to make it better.

>>281079525
Whoever worked as the author's editor sure as hell didn't do their job as an editor and criticize the author, telling them their fights are bad and they spend too much time explaining stuff instead of just letting the art speak for itself. If I was a head chief for WSJ, I would have honestly fired that editor among other editors who are too lenient with mangaka.

>>281080383
His job is to edit comic books for children. He's letting authors know not to be pretentious. They're children's comic books.

>>281080192
"Staying power" is a meme.
Naruto and bleach suffer from being forgotten despite still releasing new stuff, Dragon Ball almost dies as a franchise before Super for the same thing.
All Shounen IPs need to release new stuff to keep themselves in the minds of the readers, the second any of the big 3 stops producing new slop people will forget them the same way Hokuto no Ken, Yu Yu Hakusho, or Tenchi Muyo are relics of the past.

>>281079525
The complete lack of text is also bad, you can process pictures way faster than text, all these pages have good choreography and flow but the average reader would take like 3 seconds to "read" all that.
Kimetsu is the other end of the spectrum (too much text) the first 3 pages alone feel longer than the entire DB segment because of how text heavy it is.
The best fights are the ones that strike a good balance between amazing choreography and engaging exposition/description/dialogue

>>281079525
BRVTAL MOG

>>281079384
correct

>>281101012
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Master%27s_Voice_(novel)

This is the kind of book I liked as a kid. I think children, at least significant population of them, like "smart stuff".

>>281101247
Action is supposed to be fast paced.

>>281099783
>>281099836
I haven't read that many mental gymnastics just no not admit that DS has more into it than just pretty animation. No wonder suits haven't learn shit and keep thinking trowing money into Sakuga and merch is the way to go.
>It exploded in 1996 with the full multi-media death squad: games, anime, cards, merch all at once.
Wrong in all accounts. Pokemon gained momentum with the Mew reveal. Not because Nintendo knew it had a cashcow in the making. Nobody really knows what is gonna be a hit. The same with SNK that didn't have a S2 in pre production for years.
>it's a perfect storm
It's funny how you don't take into consideration the base manga and is depiction and the writing and everything else the mangaka made. Pokemon was a buggy mess, but is still a solid game.
>KnY is a corporate masterstroke built on mid-tier bones.
I repeat, there's no way you can be a global success just based on simple luck and corpo push, and even more with a "bare-bones" base work, there's more failures than successful works in that line. But yeah, you are on your world now anon, no idea why.

>>281082074
>Naruto has a soul of its own and isn't completely derivative
But it's early HxH ripoff

>>281102054
>I haven't read that many mental gymnastics just no not admit that DS has more into it than just pretty animation.
Nah, what you haven’t read is Gotouge’s manga objectively. You’re sitting here clinging to mass appeal like it’s proof of depth, like sales = substance. You're confusing commercial explosion with artistic merit. Big difference. KnY is the product of an industrial media grenade, not a timeless piece of god-tier craftsmanship. You can call that “gymnastics,” but you’d need an Olympic-level tumble just to justify why this chicken-scratch storyboard comic deserved to outsell fucking Slam Dunk.
>No wonder suits haven't learn shit and keep thinking trowing money into Sakuga and merch is the way to go.
You literally just described exactly why KnY succeeded. Congrats, you played yourself. Suits didn’t learn because KnY’s success lied in the perfect weaponization of all those things. It set a precedent not because the manga was a goldmine, but because the marketing execution was. That's why every shonen since is trying to recreate that exact storm: big seiyuu, pretty colors, emotionally manipulative music, easy-to-cry plot points, heavy cross-merch.
>Wrong in all accounts. Pokemon gained momentum with the Mew reveal.
You think the Mew reveal just happened in a vacuum? That wasn't luck, that was a targeted viral stunt by Nintendo, Game Freak, and CoroCoro to incite rumors and buzz. It was guerrilla marketing decades before TikTok made that shit standard. The game wasn't polished. The anime wasn't prestige. The cards were just catching on. But it was coordinated, just like KnY. You want to believe in magical “organic success,” but history shows the real magic is orchestrated attention.

>>281089893
Why are you using art from early manga and not closer to end?
Why are you seething so much? https://desuarchive.org/a/search/image/EF8NE4cNHeVyL1-CqbNvOQ/

>>281102054
>Nobody really knows what is gonna be a hit.
Yup. But when something becomes a hit, you can absolutely reverse engineer why and KnY has been dissected a million times now. And the consensus isn’t “the manga is a masterpiece.” It’s “Ufotable pulled a miracle and everything aligned.” You’re still over here treating market consequence as creative cause which isn’t analysis, you’re just being starstruck by numbers.
>It's funny how you don't take into consideration the base manga and is depiction and the writing and everything else the mangaka made.
Yeah, because the base manga is visually ugly, narratively clunky, and emotionally one-note. The anime is what gave those scribbles flow, soul, and clarity. The sound design is what sold the drama. The editing and camera direction are what made the fights visceral. Gotouge gave the blueprints, Ufotable built the fucking city. The anime is the final product.
>Pokemon was a buggy mess, but is still a solid game.
Exactly. Key word: GAME. Its medium was interactive and engaging despite the bugs. KnY is not a solid manga. It’s not bad by indie standards, but by WSJ standards, it’s bottom-half tier. Even One Piece, for all its bloat, runs artistic circles around it. You keep trying to frame KnY as the underdog champ. Nah, it’s the mediocre paper prince crowned by an anime empire.
>there's no way you can be a global success just based on simple luck and corpo push
You are lying to yourself. Marketing makes kings. And KnY was marketing weaponized. Without Ufotable? It would’ve died as another low-mid-tier Jump series with a loyal but small following. You’re seeing the result and back-justifying the source. Meanwhile, actual manga legends had to bleed for decades without anime to make their mark.

>>281101944
Not necessarily, action is a very versatile medium for storytelling that can be approached in multiple ways.
Also nowadays with so many action series fighting for your attention authors need to try leave a huge impact on the readers to make sure they return.
That fighting sequence in Dragon Ball is good on the technical level but it fails at telling me something about the characters themselves (of course this comparison is unfair because DB was written in a different time period and market and that fight alone is taken out of context.)
The point is that text can enhance the impact of a fight if you know how to manage it, be it with exposition, or internal monologues, or just dialogue between the two combatants.

>>281095729
That's not how manga is published.

>>281096543
Then what is Kaiju no 8 where only named character that dies is Kikoru's father

>>281079525
Anons. Literally just speed read the dbz segment, without looking at the demon slayer trash). It’s insanely good.

The first time I looked at this I didn’t allow it to flow, and broke the pace by comparing to the demon slayer scans. On reread it’s amazing, almost animated.

>>281100193
What about big 3 fanbases? Or JJK? Or Kaiju no 8?

>>281080192
>no staying power
It mostly has to do with the internet and the infinite choice everyone has nowadays.
Back in the day, there weren't a lot of choices in TV (unless you were rich and had cable/satellite/hertzian TV, and japanese series were dirt cheap. Without it, most japanese animation wouldn't comes to the west.
Classics are always discovered retroactively, anyway. You have to at least wait 15 years to see if the series still holds.

>>281102054
>Pokemon was a buggy mess
So are Bethesda fantasy games.

>>281102316
>>281102393
>like sales = substance
Yes anon, sales is an objective depiction of quality, even if you throw a tantrum about it. Nothing gains mass popularity unless it has a degree of quality. Do you know how hard is for something to gain mass appeal? And even more with such a niche product such as anime. Even Marvelslop had a degree of it to be such a monsters and nowadays, even with all the corpo machine that Disney has, it's on a recent decline, sans some products that the public has noted it retains the usual quality such as Guardians of the Galaxy. This is the prime example of how just marketing can take you so far. The manga is a best seller by its own means, and that talks about its individual qualities. Slam Dunk is also an example, it recently had a PS2 movie and that didn't stop it for charting in sales with the manga. Writing and the base product will always be key. Everything else is just cope and deflection.

>>281102591
>re-release the story
>dis time it's an extended edition
>graphic novel
>58 volumes
>$$$$$
>in the background, $$$$$
>Excuse me, sir, would you like some $$$$$ with your $$$$$?
Yes, I would, thanks

>>281079525
That Tenshinhan fight flows SO well in the anime too.
https://youtu.be/6IdyMcR86_c?si=JoFO1E2TjHVKrnL-

>>281102958
Manga chapters are first published in magazine or on it's online platform and then collected in volumes. Rest of you post is just nonsense as expected from /v/tard.

>>281102889
>sales is an objective depiction of quality
You just said the quiet part out loud. This is the most braindead, NPC, consumer-worshipping horseshit anyone could ever believe. Sales are a depiction of market behavior, not artistic merit. By this logic, Minions is a better film than The Godfather, and Fifty Shades of Grey is superior to Crime and Punishment because the average suburban mom bought more copies. You’re not arguing art, you’re parroting numbers like a soulless marketing intern.
>Nothing gains mass popularity unless it has a degree of quality.
You're retarded. Plenty of garbage media gets mass traction because it’s accessible, algorithm-friendly, emotionally simplistic, or has the right machine backing it. Ever heard of Twilight? Ever seen Morbius trends? Or remember Call of Duty: Ghosts? All had massive sales. All were critical dumpster fires. Popularity is not a litmus test for craft.
>Even Marvelslop had a degree of it to be such a monsters and nowadays
You're literally proving my point. Marvel’s cinematic empire was built on consistent branding, strategic planning, and cultural timing. They didn’t rise because Thor: The Dark World was Shakespeare. They rose because the machine sold the fantasy well. KnY follows the same playbook: simple emotional hooks, mass-market aesthetic, and timing that capitalized on anime’s global surge. Not because the manga was a fucking tour de force.
>The manga is a best seller by its own means, and that talks about its individual qualities.
You blind, loud idiot. The manga wasn’t a bestseller until the anime’s E19 nuked the internet. Check the Oricon charts before 2019 and look up what Hiroyuki Nakano has to say. KnY was mid-tier. Post-anime? It blew up like a volcano. What changed? Not the manga. It was always the same rushed, chicken-scratch doodle pad of shonen tropes. What changed was execution, Ufotable came in and wiped Gotouge’s ass with a gold-plated bidet.

>>281102889
>Slam Dunk is also an example
You dare put Slam Dunk in the same breath as KnY? Fuck off. Slam Dunk earned its cultural power long before movies through iconic art, solid character work, and real pathos. The anime adaptation didn’t save it, it amplified a quality product. KnY got saved, like CPR on a dying toddler with coloring crayons and edgy backstories.
>base product will always be key.
A base is required. But KnY’s base is a bare-bones shonen formula with an emotionally manipulative gimmick slapped on like a "please cry here" sticker. It was never exceptional. What was exceptional? The presentation layered on top. The movie-tier polish. The marketing synergy. The seiyuu lineup. The timing during a global pandemic where emotionally soft content got binged en masse. That was the real lightning strike. So no, sales don't validate shit except consumer trends. And if you honestly think that numbers are proof of depth, you’re not a fan, you’re just a fucking livestock tag following market cues and calling it taste. You didn’t love the manga. You loved the anime. Everyone did. Own that shit up or go read Chainsaw Man and pretend it’s not the same corporate cycle all over again.

>>281079276 (OP)
i am happy for you jeremy, you finally got a little win, so your liver wouldn't explode

>>281079276 (OP)
widsom

>>281103250
All global best sellers have artist merit behind it, you just can't market shit and expect it to stuck. And yes, even Twilight, 50 shades of gray, and the Minion's have artistic merits behind that made them what they are, or the barriage of clones that they woke up would have reached the same highs.
>By this logic, Minions is a better film than The Godfather
Anon, The Godfather wasn't a niche movie, it was the highest grossing box office of its time, the same with Crime and Punishment that is still selling to this days. I know you want to make a GOTCHA, but you seem to be spelling bullshit to make a point.
>Plenty of garbage media
That's your own subjective view anon. You have all the right to dislike something, but that doesn't take out it's artistic merits.
>Morbius
Anon, that was a failure. It even had a new re release because suits believe the memes. What the fuck are you talking about?
>Thor the Dark World
A weak box office for the era, and more coming after the Avengers phenomenon. Prime example of how you just can't ride just strong marketing. Everybody knows that movie has horrible pacing and writing.
>The manga wasn’t a bestseller until the anime’s E19 nuked the internet.
Volumes over 100k sales pre anime. In times were sales were at a whole time low. Sorry anon, you are still speaking from ignorance.
>go read Chainsaw Man and pretend it’s not the same corporate cycle all over again.
So why didn't Chainsaw did the same numbers? Yes anon, now do the mental gymnastic once again.

>This thread seems to have it out against KnY specifically. I wonder what happe...

>>281104095
See >>281090293

>>281104164
>It's popular so I hate it
That's the real mindless drone behaviour. You could be enjoying your favorite show... But here you are, seething about something else's success.

>>281104164
Keep crying

>>281104024
>All global best sellers have artist merit behind it
Holy fuck, we've reached the stage where your imbecile ass thinks Fifty Shades of Grey had "artistic merit." Nigga, do you read with your eyes or with your ass cheeks? That fanfic-tier slop was so poorly written that even editors refused to touch it, and it still sold because of horny wine moms and viral shame. There’s no “artistic merit” there. That’s taboo bait wrapped in mass appeal. Don’t confuse what sells with what’s well made. They are not the same fucking thing.
>Minion's have artistic merits
Yeah? If fart jokes and yellow tic-tacs screaming nonsense is "artistic merit," then the bar is fucking subterranean. They’re commercial mascots tailored for maximum brand synergy, not nuanced characters. They sell because they’re easy, loud, and memeable not because they’re good.
>The Godfather wasn't a niche movie
Never said The Godfather was niche, you goddamn reading-disabled buffoon. The point was that raw sales figures aren’t inherently a barometer for depth or quality. Godfather was both a commercial and critical success. Demon Slayer isn’t the Godfather of manga, it’s the Fast & Furious. Shiny, loud, and completely hollow.
>That's your own subjective view anon.
Yeah? And it’s a better informed one than yours, since unlike you I can differentiate between cultural impact and artistic integrity. You’re the type who sees a billion dollar Disney movie and goes, “Wow, must be peak cinema.” Go jerk off to box office stats, spreadsheet simp.

>>281081640
There is no Z in the manga.
I would know, because I own all 42 volumes of Dragon Ball.

Who?

>>281104024
>Anon, that was a failure
Yup. And that's the point. It had all the corpo backing, meme attention, and shilling in the world and STILL flopped. Which destroys your whole argument that mass exposure equals guaranteed success. Exposure can flop hard if the product doesn’t resonate and doesn’t have luck or context. KnY did resonate, not because of the manga’s merit but because the anime tricked people into thinking there was more to it than there really was.
>A weak box office for the era
Which proves my point again. Even in a mega-franchise, you can't brute-force success. So WHY did KnY succeed despite being mid-tier beforehand? Because it had everything click at once: perfect storm, COVID, sakuga, seiyuu, music, aesthetic. Your argument just shot itself in the dick.
>Volumes over 100k sales pre anime
And got blown out of the water after the anime. It underperformed for 3 full years until the anime came along and breathed life into that sterile manga. KnY grew from volume to volume but most Jump series that don't get axed do, its pre-anime numbers were lower than World Trigger and Black Clover's. It went from 100k to 1M+ per volume post-E19, topping Oricon. That is NOT steady organic growth like JJK, that’s artificial oxygen. People suddenly “discovered” this “masterpiece” only after it got wrapped in Ufotable’s god-tier presentation. Not before. Because nobody gave a flying shit before.
>So why didn't Chainsaw did the same numbers?
First, it did do insane numbers for a relatively niche, grotesque, unorthodox manga. And it did it pre-anime unlike KnY. Because Fujimoto had the gall to make a story with weird tone, unique themes, and break the mold. But unlike Gotouge, he didn’t get a free bump from a billion dollar push during lockdowns. So yes, he’s less successful commercially, but way more accomplished artistically.

>>281104215
Nah, you’re still jerking off to numbers while the rest of us are actually evaluating the content, even industry insiders like Torishima. If that’s too hard for your brain, maybe you should stop reading manga and just stare at quarterly sales reports like a finance NPC who gets aroused by pie charts.

>>281103250
The super mario bros movie is proof that hype > quality.

So with a popular enough anime, you should be able to sell a shit manga on hype alone.

Modern media is using the hype machine, but it is also killing franchises in its wake as the end result when the product comes to roost is exposed for being hot garbage.

>complains about a series getting popular because of the anime
>the series he worked on was on popular because of the anime

?

He is right on some level but that’s ironic coming from Dragon Ball Z

>>281104253
>I don't like it so it doesn't has artistic merit
Ok, you are just pretentious, it's ok anon, we all have been edgy teenagers it's just a phase.
>They’re commercial mascots tailored
And I repeat, if it is that easy to do so, other studios should have been able to replicate the same formula, and we know they tried and failed. It's not that easy anon.
>Godfather was both a commercial and critical success.
You compared it to the Minion's movie as if it underperformed and now that you know it's a commercial success you are backtracking lol. You are so cute anon.
>>281104370
>Which destroys your whole argument that mass exposure equals guaranteed success.
When did I said that anon? Breathe man.
>It underperformed for 3 full years
>Each volume over 100k pre anime.
>80 millions before COVID movie
>Because it had everything click at once: perfect storm, COVID, sakuga, seiyuu, music, aesthetic.
Anon, you have won the gold medal. Congrats.
>People suddenly “discovered” this “masterpiece” only after it got wrapped in Ufotable’s god-tier presentation.
>Even in a mega-franchise, you can't brute-force success.
LMAO the fucking contradictions. Anon, keep on going. This is now peak shit posting.

>>281104674
>>I don't like it so it doesn't has artistic merit
Shut the fuck up with that fake-ass paraphrasing. Never said "I don’t like it so it’s bad." What I did say is that the metrics you’re citing sales, popularity, viral moments do not automatically translate to artistic merit. That’s not subjective, that’s media literacy. Stop being a wet tissue and grow a fucking brain cell that can tell the difference between quality and marketing trickery.
>if it is that easy to do so, other studios should have been able to replicate
And they did try, jackass. Look around, do you have any idea how much money gets funneled into generic shonen adaptations every quarter? The anime industry has spent the last 5 years trying to find the next KnY with more sakuga-heavy trailers than actual narrative substance. And guess what? They all bombed because they didn’t have the freak fusion of
>Covid lockdown binge era
>Memetic episode moments
>An all-star seiyuu veteran cast and OST pairing
>Sony Music pushing it on every outlet from radio to fucking FamilyMart
KnY didn't succeed because "it was good." It succeeded because everything else did the heavy lifting. Gotouge just gave them the napkin sketch they traced over.
>You compared it to the Minion's movie
You're so dense I’m surprised your skull doesn’t collapse into itself. That was a reductive comparison to make the point that sales =/= quality. Saying Minions outsold indie cinema doesn’t make it the better film. You cling to numbers like a corporate intern deepthroating his quarterly reports.
>When did I said that anon?
You just implied it by using sales to argue quality. You literally said:
>"Sales are an objective depiction of quality"
You’re like a toddler who shits on the carpet and then cries when someone points at the mess. Own your argument or shut the hell up.

>>281104674
>>Each volume over 100k pre anime.
Yup. In fucking WSJ, where the bar for survival is “don’t get axed in 20 chapters.” World Trigger a much less pretty manga outperformed it before its anime dropped. Same for Black Clover. You’re bragging about a series that coasted in mediocrity for three goddamn years until Ufotable injected it with steroids. A freak spike in sales from Vol 16 onward is not a steady growth curve, it’s a pulse resuscitated by a defibrillator.
>>80 millions before COVID movie
Yeah? After the anime explosion, dumbass. The manga’s spike was reactive, not intrinsic. Again, volume sales skyrocketed only after E19. Literally every chart backs that up and even industry insiders like Hiroyuki Nakano admits this.
>LMAO the fucking contradictions.
No contradiction. I made myself clear.
>You can’t brute-force success alone with marketing if your product has nothing to offer.
>KnY had just enough appeal (easy-to-digest emotional beats, tragedy porn, simple morals) for Ufotable’s execution to catapult it.
>But that doesn't mean the base manga was the reason. It means it was susceptible to being inflated under the right circumstances.
>What this actually proves is KnY is the perfect corporate test dummy. Simple, unchallenging, “relatable,” and easy to brand. Not great, just exploitable.
TL;DR: You're not defending a story, you're defending a marketing event. A highly polished, expertly timed product launch for a mid-tier manga that no one gave a shit about until someone else turned it into a visual buffet for hypebeasts and TikTok-addicted normalfags. If that's your idea of quality, then enjoy swimming in puddles and calling it the ocean. You're not a critic. You're just a consumer in denial.

Love the fact that Jeremy got so mindbroken by the stats he's abandoned the movie sales to focus on how KnY's success is exclusive to the anime. He doesn't even deny it anymore kek

>>281080135
>wanpisser seething
That explains it.

So, in this thread, browns are angry and seething that nips liked that kimetsu no yaiba stuff more than their beloved ancient dragonball series.

>>281104943
>Covid lockdown binge era
It reached 80 million before COVID era movie. :^) It was a 100k seller before anime. You are now running in circles just to not admit Gotouge's writing and character design skills.
>That was a reductive comparison to make the point that sales =/= quality.
A stupid one then since The Godfather was a commercial success, you just didn't know anon, it's not bad to be wrong. Why are you so on the defensive?
>They all bombed because they didn’t have the freak fusion of
>Covid lockdown binge era
80 millions before COVID anon. 80 fucking millions. :^)
>>281105034
>A freak spike in sales from Vol 16 onward is not a steady growth curve, it’s a pulse resuscitated by a defibrillator.
Yes anon, they had to give back life to a 100k seller. Sureeeeeee.
>You’re bragging about a series that coasted in mediocrity
Sold well, ranked well in the magazine. You are now just listening to the voices in your head instead of plain and objective data. I can't forcefully five you meds anon. That's on you.
>for a mid-tier manga that no one gave a shit about until someone else turned it into a visual buffet for hypebeasts and TikTok-addicted normalfags.
Did I said that it was a 100k seller before the anime? Ok.
>You're not a critic. You're just a consumer in denial.
I'm not the one deflecting and spouting bullshit to make a point tho. You have plenty of those. Adding insults doesn't make you any more right, but yeah, kids don't know how to control their emotions. Some day anon, some day.

>>281101131
>Dragon Ball almost dies
What? DB ended in 1995 and Super debuted around 2015 with BoG releasing in 2013. That means the franchise lasted around 20 years without an ongoing manga and around 30 years counting when it was. Other franchises would fucking kill for that staying power and need to pump out constant content to stay relevant.

Adding Super continuing the original story has increased DB’s lifespan to over 40 years, sure, but don’t prtend those first 30 years didn’t exist. Naruto ended barely a decade ago and os struggling to remain relevant despite getting a sequel series almost fucking immediately for example.

>>281105603
>and os struggling to remain relevant despite getting a sequel series almost fucking immediately for example.
>TV Tokyo most profitable franchise since years
>TV Tokyo plan is that Bleach, YuGiOh, Gintama should be as profitable as Naruto/Boruto
Now I know that the common anon lives in a bubble and doesn't know shit about how stuff works outside their bubble.

>>281105454
>It reached 80 million before COVID era movie.
Wrong. Mugen Train released October 2020. By December 2019, manga sales had only just cracked 25 million copies in circulation. E19 aired in August 2019. That spike directly correlates with Ufotable’s anime explosion, not the manga organically. The 80 million milestone was hit after Mugen Train, during peak pandemic lockdown mania when every casual was binge-watching their dopamine supply on streaming platforms. You are either lying or you are terminally stupid.
>It was a 100k seller before anime.
Limp-dicked flex. 100k is mid as fuck in Jump terms. You act like that's insane when fucking World Trigger, Black Clover, and even ass-tier flops like Gintama did more pre-anime. KnY barely survived its first year with inconsistent reader polls and no clear voice. It was shilled by Togashi, Akimoto and Nasu but still couldn't pull insane numbers. Shueisha didn’t even push merch until the anime blew up. You think Jump passes up free money if it believes in a property? Fuck no. It knew this shit was lukewarm.
>The Godfather was a commercial success
No shit. That’s the point, you dumb donkey. Both critically and commercially successful media exists. But so does popular dogshit. Sales do not automatically prove artistic worth. They prove appeal. Different beast entirely. Minions sells. Fifty Shades sold. Do they have merit? Only in marketing and mass appeal. Not in writing, structure, pacing, or sophistication. Stop conflating cultural footprint with artistic quality. It just makes you look like a shallow, insecure fanboy clinging to receipts instead of taste.

>>281089098
In that very picture he states he is ‘mostly’ blaming the editor, Victory Uchida, for not doing his job. He’s essentially saying that Toyotaro himself is fine but he lacks an actual editor to critique his work and help him improve it, something virtually every comic book writer in the world is meant to have. DC, Marvel, Image, IDW, Shueisha, etc.

>>281096739
I'm not saying that good adaptation = bestseller, bad adaptation = flop seller, just that depending on the execution, a work can achieve a completely different effect. Good voice acting can transform a mediocre supporting character into a favorite, or not. Epic direction can make an epic fight seem even more epic, or not. The point is that an anime sharing the same ideas as a manga doesn't make them the same thing. Each has its own nuances.

>>281105454
>Sold well, ranked well in the magazine.
No the fuck, it didn’t. Go dig up Jump’s TOC rankings from 2016-2018. KnY hovered in the mid-to-low rankings for the majority of its run pre-anime. It wasn’t top 3 material. It wasn’t dominant. It was just there: safe enough not to get axed, not strong enough to get flagship status. You’re rewriting history because you saw bar graphs without context. Also, Jump editors themselves, including Nakano (Editor-in-Chief), confirmed that word of mouth after the anime was the turning point. He LITERALLY SAID:
>“...Demon Slayer didn’t become a major hit until late 2019. Its success hinged on word of mouth generated after the anime’s run.”
That’s not me. That’s Jump’s top guy. Fucking eat it.
>Adding insults doesn't make you any more right
Neither does pretending 100k sales is god-tier. Neither does quoting cherry-picked Oricon stats while ignoring year-long dormancy pre-anime. Neither does outright refusing to engage with editor commentary, media patterns, or actual industry data. But sure, pat yourself on the head for typing like a smug little robot as if that means you're winning. Insults are just seasoning. The meat is still the data and that data says:
>Demon Slayer was a mid manga saved by Ufotable.
You can decorate a turd all you want, but it’s still a turd with gold glitter. You didn’t “prove” KnY was good, you just proved it was perfectly marketable. And there’s a big-ass difference between popular and quality. So sit down, shut the fuck up, and let adults talk while you rub your sales charts like a fucking security blanket.

>>281105236
F4 shit the bed in Japan too. He couldnt hold onto the narrative of capeshit having any pull in Japan anymore.

Pic related - Korean theaters pre sales went up

>>281080192
Oh no no no Kagurabrazillians, what is our response?

>>281104477
He didn't complain, he just made an observation.

>>281079276 (OP)
I don't know who he is but I don't think there's anyone who disagrees with that.

>>281105738
And how was Bleach going before the new anime? How is Yugioh going with the Rush Anime and Rush Duels? Is Gintama doing well right now? No shit they’re comparing these franchises to Naruto that practically never even ended. And mind you Naruto eats shit against Dragon Ball in terms of profits constantly. Games, Gacha, Anime, Merch, everything. Does the manga sell better? Not sure, DBS has been on hiatus for years now. Doesn’t stop DB from being more profitable than One Piece.

Come back to me when Naruto endures 20 years with no new manga or ongoing anime. Come talk to me when Naruto has endured over 40 years and maintained cultural and economic relevancy.

How is it always, every time, Jeremy behind these type of threads every single time?

>>281105963
Japan never cared about capeshit. And it still made more money than that PS2 CGI castle movie in less time and F4 was ass, rofl.

Jurassic World is what I'd worry about. It's on track to surpass $800M and is dropping in Japan in one week, where it could bring in around $50M extra which will absolutely disrupt Demon Slayer's box office potential. Dominion made $46M and that was post-Covid plus the film was mid lol. Japs are even worried that it'll make Demon Slayer bleed.

>>281106204
You fucking retard. Japan loves Suupaidaman. Power Rangers are superheroes too

>>281106204
>This time for sure!
Lol. Catch this btw

>>281105889
>You are either lying or you are terminally stupid.
No, I just read the data wrong. And I'll own my mistake since there's nothing bad about being wrong. But as your data points, it was a 4.5 million seller. Good for any manga.
>100k is mid as fuck in Jump terms.
No anon, that's a lie and you know it. There was a reason Hinomaru Sumo sales tier was a thing for years for Shonen Jump manga that didn't pass over 30K sales. I don't know why you insist on lying to make a point. That's childish.
>>281105951
>KnY hovered in the mid-to-low rankings for the majority of its run pre-anime.
>Show him data where DS ranks 5 in 2016
>Resorts to lie even with proof
This is not your typical lying, it's advance lying. By 2018 DS was even getting the first spot on SJ. Why lie anon? The data is out there.
>Lies
>Deflecting
>Refusal to at least own mistakes
Anon, you are a kiddo. It's ok, but at some point you have to grown up. It's just a show. Why so mad it's successful?
>That’s Jump’s top guy. Fucking eat it.
>Let's trust the suit
Lol no. They are retarded and having been able to replicate DS success and now they are in a dire situation with their recent titles. So yeah, nah.
>You can decorate a turd all you want, but it’s still a turd with gold glitter.
Sure, and people don't buy into it, that's why Thor Dark World was a mid success, and plenty more copo sponsored stuff. DS doesn't fit there since its own qualities saved it.
>So sit down, shut the fuck up, and let adults talk while you rub your sales charts like a fucking security blanket.
This is a tantrum.

>>281106262
Asians like anime, and they like Demon Slayer, yes. You tell me nothing new. If not Japan, then majority of Mugen Train's box office came from South Korea.

Still won't do Mugen Train's numbers, because Japan alone can't carry it anymore. The yen is too weak. And Mugen Train ran for so long with no competitors, its theatrical run lasted a whole year, lol. Now's different, you gotta compete with the T-rex (biggest winner of July box office btw).

>>281106133
>And mind you Naruto eats shit against Dragon Ball
The fact that you have to compare it to the biggest shonen slop of all times to make your point valid, talks about the strength of Naruto as a brand. You talked shit without knowing, and now instead of just owning a minor mistake, you just resort to acting like a child who was discovered picking a cookie outside lunch hours. Naruto is relevant, both economically and culturally. It's a fact, and that's it, no need to be so in the defensive, unless you get money for it, bu we know that's not the case.

>>281106382
>gotta compete with Superman!
>mogs it
>gotta compete with Fantastic Four 4!
>mogs it
>gotta compete with Lilo and Stitch!
>mogs it
Noticing a pattern?

>>281106371
>But as your data points, it was a 4.5 million seller.
Wrong again, you intellectually dishonest dipshit. That 4.5M was accumulated after YEARS, across double-digit volumes. I’m not going to act like that’s impressive. We’re talking a franchise that only found legs after 3 years of mediocrity. Pre-anime, KnY was sitting behind not just OP, MHA, and Neverland, but even mid-fucking-tier stuff like Black Clover and We Never Learn in attention and prominence. And that Oricon chart I showed that you’re pretending proves greatness?
Look at Vol 1-7. Those numbers are dogshit by Jump standards. That sales spike from Vol 16 onward? That wasn’t organic, that was pure E19 energy. You know it. Everyone knows it. That “100k per volume” thing? That’s retroactive volume bundling from the anime surge, not proof of early success. Volume 1? 16k. Volume 2? 25k. That’s fucking nothing. You could fart in the WSJ office and outsell that.
>By 2018 DS was even getting the first spot on SJ.
Oh wow, ONE time. You cherry-picked one lucky TOC streak in late 2018 to pretend KnY was always doing well? Where the fuck were you during 2016-2017 when Demon Slayer was ranking in the bottom half of TOC more often than not? Every long-running manga in Jump gets occasional TOC bumps. That doesn’t mean shit. Gotouge wasn’t even being pushed in big crossover promotions, cover stories, or Jump Festa banners pre-anime. If Jump really thought it was a flagship, they would’ve marketed the shit out of it like they did MHA, Neverland, JJK, and even CSM. This chart doesn’t prove “greatness,” it proves tolerable mid-tier existence. You don’t win medals for just not getting axed.

>>281106716
Nope. Never said it'll compete with Lilo and Stitch, it dropped months ahead of Demon Slayer, probably to avoid competing with it, it made $1B in the global box office lol. Never said F4 would mog it either or Superman, but they raked in cash and did more more in lesser time too.

I always said Jurassic World would make it bleed tho. It's only the Western franchise that Nips gobble up, oh and Supaidaman too I guess.

>>281106800
>and did more more in lesser time too.
F4 and Superman wish they made more money than kimetsu.
I doubt they've gone over 100 million above the budget spent on those movies.

>>281079276 (OP)
>editor
Don't care
Didn't ask

>>281106371
>It's just a show. Why so mad it's successful?
What the actual fuck kind of 4th grade playground dodge is that? This is a media critique convo, not your personal group therapy session. You don’t get to pull out “why so mad?” like it’s a mic drop.
What are you, twelve? You’re mad I’m right. That the entire mountain of data shows KnY was mid until it got anime steroids. That your rebuttals have been flaccid, full of projection, cherry-picked TOC spikes, and cope about “artistic merit” without once addressing the flat character growth, one-dimensional arcs, ass-pulled villain flashbacks, or the absolute lack of stakes in its core sibling relationship.
>>Let's trust the suit
So when the Editor-in-Chief of Jump, the guy who greenlights every series, oversees every metric, and sees the full inside data, tells you that the manga’s success was entirely post-anime and driven by word of mouth and streaming momentum, you say
>Lmao suits don’t know shit
You’re just admitting you’re more emotionally invested in pretending KnY was always great than accepting insider knowledge from the literal boss of the entire platform. You can’t just call foul every time reality slaps your narrative in the mouth. That’s cowardly fanboy bullshit.
>Thor Dark World didn't sell like KnY, so KnY must be great!
No, jackass. It means KnY was more effectively branded, not better written. Those are two entirely separate axes of judgment. KnY became the Minions of shounen: clean, safe, sparkly, digestible mass-market hype. That has nothing to do with complex writing, deep character arcs, or long-term storytelling mastery. You can’t compare that to stuff like SnK (trash but still more intricate than KnY), One Piece (trash but the worldbuilding is autistically detailed), Monster, or even FMA, those had foundation before explosion. KnY was carried on a perfectly-timed marketing miracle. Admit it.

>>281106800
Lying when there's an archive is embarassing.

>>281106737
>>281106974
Sorry anon, but you are just spouting lies and nonsense that it's easily proved wrong. By the end of 2017. DS was in the top rankings. Having an average of 5.6. At this point you are just shouting nonsense. But keep on embarrassing yourself and then omitting the arguments that make you look like a total fool. :^)

>>281107007
That is also true btw. Superman raked more money than Japan's highest grossing movie did without Covid boost and running on theaters for a whole year solo, lol.

Jurassic World is the winner of the summer box office with F1 coming in second place and Superman third place and he treated Japan like a vacation trip, rofl.

>>281107104
That entire post was about you claiming Kansas man would mog Kimetsu in its own country. The exact opposite happened (to the surprise of no one). What will your next cope and deflection be?

>>281107178
Btw its coming for that 20b yen this weekend.

>>281107084
>By the end of 2017. DS was in the top rankings.
Oh wow, a decent showing... for 8 issues. At the END of the year. That’s like pulling a screenshot of a guy finishing strong on lap 50 and pretending he led the whole race. Where the fuck was KnY in the other 44 issues of 2017? I’ll tell you: floating around the mid-to-low rankings like a lost fart in a wind tunnel. You're banking your entire argument on cherry-picked TOC data from a single sprint, when we have literal years of proof that KnY was coasting in safe mediocrity pre-anime. One decent quarter does not rewrite two and a half years of lukewarm performance, especially when you're talking about a magazine where tenure matters more than anything. No one gets axed for being average in Jump. KnY got to linger.
>Having an average of 5.6.
And that still puts it below Dr. Stone and miles below One Piece. Let me guess, those are “cheating” too, right? Also, let’s be real: TOC is not gospel. Editors place stuff higher in the issue for tons of reasons like giving a boost to struggling series they want to keep alive, or marketing synergy for upcoming anime announcements. It’s a known fact in fandom circles. A few bumps around anime news doesn’t change that prior to the anime airing, KnY was not a flagship.
>But keep on embarrassing yourself
Nah, faggot. You’re doing the online equivalent of smugly jerking off in a corner while pretending a brief spike is proof of consistent greatness. That’s not just embarrassing, it’s pathetic. Never said KnY never had a decent week. What I’m saying is its longevity and explosion were not because of intrinsic narrative quality, but because of Ufotable’s perfectly-timed anime adaptation. Every single metric supports that from the Oricon spikes, to post-anime sales jumps, to public acknowledgment by the actual editorial leadership.

>>281079276 (OP)
It's not uncommon for anime to be better than the source and to increase its popularity.

>>281101247
this is a really retarded opinion

>>281107084
>omitting the arguments
Nigga, I included:
>Your own sales charts that show Vols 1-7 were dead in the water
>Nakano (WSJ’s Editor-in-Chief) stating it only exploded post-anime
>Historical TOC placements showing a long trail of mediocrity
>Direct comparisons to other series that didn’t need anime steroids to matter (SnK, JJK, OP)
So don’t come in here crying “you’re ignoring my points” while slapping 8 issues on the table like they’re the Ten Commandments. So what’s the takeaway here from talking with delusional KnY faggots?
>“KnY wasn’t dogshit 100% of the time, just 70%, and then it got lucky!”
Your little 8-issue chart is a fucking napkin in a flood of data showing KnY was mid-tier for years until E19 drop-kicked it into normalfag heaven. One brief spike doesn’t erase years of struggle. It doesn’t rewrite Nakano’s own words no matter how much you try to cope and weasel your way out of this. And it doesn’t mean this safe, formulaic, narratively thin product suddenly deserves to be in the same conversation as genuinely rich storytelling like other better manga.

>>281092025
Warm Piss may sell well but it's trash. If Torishima were still in charge we'd have such good titles in WSJ, instead all we have is slop now.

>>281103152
it's cool just how accurate the DBZ anime is to the manga, I've noticed most of the entire anime is page for page like this

>>281107303
>He's arguing about solid data just because it doesn't follow his headcannon
Here's 2018 too, before the anime. :^) Go once again for the gold medal anon. You can do it.

>>281107178
Still scared Sony/Aniplex shitless to blackmail Toho into cutting Superman's premium screens, kek. If there's one thing Demon Slayer HATES, it's competition. They want to dominate the boxing ring right after Muhammad Ali has left the stage but before Mike Tyson enters, rofl. Dragon Ball is far more brave, went up against Spider-Man and smashed it. JJK went up against Batman and smashed it. Conan went up against Endgame and SMASHED it, beating it at its own home turf. All the other shounen are just like, "Come at me, bro."
>>281107246
Nope, it's at 15.5 billion yen so far and it seems to have slowed down now. It'll likely make 20 billion yen by Monday or somewhere around next week. I'm still within my range, lol. And the yen is weak as shit too.

>>281095349
>Mon manga préféré, c'est Dr Slump, parce que c'est un manga qui avait une incroyable fraîcheur, qui était vraiment nouveau et qui a changé son époque, et surtout tout ce qu'il y avait dans la tête de Akira Toriyama est dans ce récit. En comparaison, Dragon Ball n'est pas vraiment une œuvre très intéressante.
Basically, his fav manga is Dr.Slump because it was fresh and he thinks Dragon Ball is not very interesting.

>>281107565
Yes, KnY had a decent few issues leading up to its anime. It didn’t completely flop in 2018, never said it did. And guess what, jackass? That’s right before its anime dropped. That means it was already riding the hype train. Pre-anime announcements were out. Marketing gears were turning. Anime exposure was looming. A spike at the end of 2018 does not represent the other 3 goddamn years of lukewarm performance between 2016-2018. TOC gets manipulated all the time for promotional reasons. It’s not strictly performance-based. Editors shuffle placements to prep for anime, highlight arcs, or match marketing pushes. DS being high in 8 issues of late 2018 is not a long-term pattern, it's editorial priming. They do it all the time. Ask any long-time reader. Stop being a fucking TOC baby like the majority of the /wsj/ losers.

Second, sales charts STILL BTFOs your whole narrative. Go ahead. Scroll the fuck up. Look at that beautiful sales chart I posted again.
>Vol 1-4: Sub-30K sales. Literal bottom tier.
>Vol 5-10: Crawls its way into low-to-mid six figures, nothing remarkable.
The jump in Vol 11+? That’s Ufotable. That’s the anime drop. That’s E19 nuking the planet and causing immediate back-issue sellouts. Sales are undeniable proof of reader response. KnY did not see explosive volume sales until after the anime. If its writing was so godlike, those sales would’ve ballooned before the adaptation like SnK or JJK. But they didn’t. Because the manga alone didn’t sell itself.

>>281107565
Third, Nakano's own words STILL obliterates every cope you spew. You think you know more than WSJ’s Editor-in-Chief? Get the fuck outta here. Nakano literally said the success "hinged on word of mouth after the anime’s run." That’s not me. That’s not headcanon. That’s the guy running the goddamn magazine. So why the fuck are you acting like your interpretation of eight cherry-picked issues somehow supersedes that? Are you gonna argue he’s lying now? Is Jump’s head editor part of my cope cult too?

And lastly, KnY's "pre-anime success" was mid as fuck. Don’t confuse "not getting axed" with "being hot shit." Plenty of series do just enough to survive without ever being front-runners. Black Clover, World Trigger, Hinomaru Sumo. They sell okay and they fill a slot. That was Demon Slayer’s role pre-anime. It was safe, predictable, formulaic, and exactly the kind of thing that WSJ keeps around as background noise until they get something bigger to push it with. You’re trying to sell “not failing” as “crushing it.” That’s the most pathetic self-own possible.

>>281107621
>T-they were just scared of competition
Cope a lope, dont drop the soap. Weekend has giveaway promos as well. See you then when it makes that easy 20b.

>>281108105
>It didn’t completely flop in 2018, never said it did.
>>281105951
>No the fuck, it didn’t. Go dig up Jump’s TOC rankings from 2016-2018. KnY hovered in the mid-to-low rankings for the majority of its run pre-anime.
See? You are a lier and a deflector. Your opinions are biased and based on lies and nonsense. The point of debating it's not to get a GOTCHA or obliterate the opponent, is for exchanging information and get into a common point. But you kiddo, are a lier and lack the maturity for a normal exchange of ideas. And last, this is the TOC for 2016. DS wasn't the bottom runner the voices in your head said it is. Keep malding... And for utter nonsense I swear.

>>281079276 (OP)
i will never watch kny because it got insanely popular in asian third world countries like thailand or india therefore its trash

>>281105603
Anon thinks "living franchise" is youtubers talking about it.

>>281108383
>Weekend has giveaway promos as well.
Blackmail and they have to bribe their way to get viewers, lol. If there's one thing Demon Slayer HATES, it's competition. It's also a slut too who'd sell out her body to get money from her OnlyFans supporters, lmao. DB would never.

>>281108745
>blackmail
Conspiracy theory tinfoil hat copes. Keep em coming.

>Goku vs Tien
Should've used Vegeta vs Recoome.

>>281108454
That statement still holds 1000% true even with your own dumbass gotcha chart.
>Demon Slayer floats between 9-18th place like a barely surviving tumor.
>Only ONE instance it hits rank 4.
>Average: 12.0 aka bottom tier of the TOC.
So... what the actual fuck are you flexing? You’ve literally proven me right again while waving your arms like you just beat Goku in a footrace. You’ve posted a chart showing it was tanking and you still think it’s a W. You can’t make this level of brainrot up.

I’d drill this into your melted brain one more time. 2016 = KnY is one of the lowest ranked series in the entire magazine.
>TOC Average: 12.0
Bottom of the barrel alongside Hinomaru Sumo and Samon-kun. It’s not even middle of the pack. This is bleeding-from-the-eyes, barely-alive territory. Second, Jump doesn’t immediately axe everything at the bottom. Sometimes they let weaker series linger if they fill a niche, have incoming adaptations, or they just haven’t found a better replacement. Survival =/= popularity. Don’t confuse editorial tolerance with audience demand.

Third, sales data > TOC copium. As shown multiple times.
>Sales for Volumes 1-4: absolute dogshit, sub-30K
>Even by Volume 7, KnY was still sitting in the low hundreds of thousands
>Only after E19 and the anime glow-up did the manga explode past the million mark
Again: where’s your godly “base writing”? Why did the manga not sell like wildfire BEFORE the anime if the content was so good? Oh, that’s right, because it was mid as fuck without its anime superpowers.

>>281108454
And now for the cherry on the top.
>T-This is about exchanging information and finding a common point!!
No, it fucking isn’t. You’ve been chest-thumping with passive-aggressive “:^)" and flooding TOC snapshots like they mean shit in the face of irrefutable sales collapse and editorial commentary. You don’t want a discussion. You want to “win” a debate with half-assed charts and selective memory. And guess what?

You’re losing.

The data, the editors, the industry, they all prove the same thing:
>Demon Slayer was mid, survived long enough, and Ufotable turned it into gold.
That's it. That's the truth. And no amount of ranking LARPing will change that. So take your 12.0 average, wrap it in all the cherry-picked screenshots you want, and shove it straight up your argument’s ass.

>>281108854
Not conspiracy. One Piece did the exact same trick Demon Slayer does with the bribery, lol. They handed out limited edition giveaway items like artbooks and postcards to juice rewatch numbers for Film Red. Dragon Ball would NEVER fall that low unlike these two sluts.

>>281099848
4chan ahh post

>>281109062
>>281109116
>TOC Average: 12.0
>Bottom of the barrel
>17 spots
>Right there it says DS had the 10th spot by the end of 2016
>Bottom
Anon, you don't even know basic Math or how average work, holy shit you are dumb.
>30k sales
>Spiked to 100k sales without anime
>Mediocre
>Mid
This is cope.
>You’re losing.
Sure.
>Demon Slayer was mid, survived long enough, and Ufotable turned it into gold.
Whatever makes you sleep at night anon.
>and shove it straight up your argument’s ass.
Malding this hard over some Taiwanese cartoon blowing the charts should be a case of study. Is that, or you just wanted someone to talk. I'm glad to help anon.

>>281109241
How is this a bad thing? This is also common for anime films. Even a niche anime film like Sayonara Football has this. I wish hollywood films do this.

>>281085541
whoa, someone hand this guy a media literacy award.

i like kimetsu no yaiba

>>281080192
>throws shade
FAGGOT

>>281079276 (OP)
Based. Kimetsu no Yaiba is slop and only popular with fat ugly women.

>>281079276 (OP)
>the sky is blue

>>281110299
>>281110374
but he never said this
it's made up

>>281107434
>Warm Piss may sell well
Torishima believed it wouldn't.
>>281107434
>If Torishima were still in charge we'd have such good titles in WSJ
You're getting mixed up. The job of the author is make a good title, it's the job of the editor to a title that sells. Similar but not the same.

>>281089893
>adding too many vibrant colors in order to make the characters look "unique"

It's black and white, the manga is black and white.

>>281107380
No, it's an objective fact.
A fight with 0 text needs god tier art and character work or the same amount of narrative build up to make up for the lack of words otherwise people will just read the entire thing in 15 seconds and instantly forget about it.
You can talk all you want about choreography but the average reader won't notice it unless your art is Boichi Tier
Emotional Depth and exposition can 100% elevate a mediocre fight into an amazing one

>>281081865
W

>>281100967
That's what I like about Torishima. He doesn't just blame the author (though, the author is a huge reason why the manga is ass and the fights suck ass), but especially their editor for babying them instead of giving her constructive criticism.

>>281112454
>give the fights some pretty animation
>writing remains intact
>has the biggest anime boost in existence
Turns out, people simply got filtered by some art issues.

>>281080135
>no source
you just proved him right

>>281112524
To be fair, a lot of these fights are Ufotable's interpretation and they don't follow the manga page for page like DB does because there's just not much going on with the author's art. In everything but name, Demon Slayer is a Ufotable product.

>>281112584
>doing something else with the fights means it's their product
Do I need to remind you of the general opinion on their actual original content not written by the author?
Turns out, people like the writing. You know what's the most praised part of the new movie? It's not Giyuu vs Akaza, it's Hakuji and Koyuki's flashback.

>>281112709
Presentation is everything. The manga itself wasn't a good product, but the anime made it very presentable and the emotional beats click with the soundtrack, voice acting and animation.

>>281112774
>the writing doesn't matter
>who cares the manga went on to be wildly successful and extremely beloved
Oh Jeremy. There are higher quality adaptations than kimetsu, none of them reached 1/10 of its success, because the writing is what sells it.

>>281112945
Presentation is EVRRYTHING, retard. Any industry insider would tell you that. 'Writing' is just that, a bunch of ideas. Which means fuck all. Execution and presentation supersedes writing by far. That's why KnY went under the radar for 3 years, because it didn't have a strong hook. It was very generic, actually. Seen and done a million times before. People aren't watching KnY for its 'story', they watch it for its fantastic presentation by Ufotable.

In a competitive market like anime, a story needs a unique hook to stand out from the crowd to get people interested in the first place. On a surface level, JJK is a standard dark fantasy, it does nothing out of the ordinary, but what it does extremely well is how it presents itself to the audience and it opens the story with a loud bang. KnY is a textbook case of the presentation elevating a paper-thin story and flat characters into the stratosphere. When a character like Rengoku died, many cried not because he had any development (you only learn more about him after he died), but because of how the anime presented that scene. Which can be said for most of the emotional scenes in KnY. The music, the visuals and the voice acting pairs together to bring forth one of the best combination of anime.

When it comes to the enjoyment of causal media consumers, presentation matters more than the quality of the script. If you know how to present yourself, people can deal with whatever bullshit may pop up later on in your story.

>>281112945
>There are higher quality adaptations than kimetsu

Of a battle shounen? Not sure about that. Maybe the Kenshin OVA, but that's a different type of adaptation (excising the "shounen" elements) and very limited in how much adapts.

>>281081865
This anon fucks.

>>281101131
Naruto isn't forgotten at all

>>281099053
Exactly. In universe he's this perfect person who does and says nothing that anybody could ever fault him for and that makes him uninteresting to me in the real world. It's not a hard concept to understand if you're not mentally retarded.

>>281109241
And this my friends is the final cope

>>281114655
For me, its the retard pig

>>281079525
I think it's obvious that Toriyama was an actual martial arts movie fan, and everybody since has just been a Toriyama fan.

>>281102054
Holy cope

>>281102054
>I repeat, there's no way you can be a global success just based on simple luck and corpo push,
Simple luck and corporate push are the two single most important aspects to global success there are.
>Pet rocks
>Beanie babies
>Vanilla Ice
>Fidget spinners
>Every fad dance ever
>Every fad diet ever
The list can go on forever of things that had absolutely nothing going for them other than pure luck and a corporate push.

>>281111451
>the average reader
Who gives a fuck about the average reader. Great works of art aren't created through word-bloat exposition, they're created by not adhering to the lowest common denominator. 80 iq nogs can speed read if they want to, what's your excuse. Killing a fight's pacing with pointless word-bloat doesn't elevate shit, it just drags the medium down for the sake of its dumbest readers.

>>281081063
If Torishima was Murata's editor, he would've strangled him the first time he brought up the idea of a redraw.

>>281096604
>It isn't, DS has gruesome deaths and lots of blood, it isn't family friendly by any standard, and people love it globally.
You're not watching a soft seinen or a gritty fiction, Kimetsufag. You're watching a kids show. Even the new movie is rated PG-12. Stop crying and deal with it

>>281079276 (OP)
Torishima also shat on Dragon ball , One Piece, Attack on titan

Torishiam doesn't know shit. If the world went his way goku would still be a kid and Dragon ball would be unknown shitty manga
>It’s like the manga was just raw coffee beans
It was the GREAST raw coffee beans of all time. That's why famous legendary writers recommended it before the anime

Manga artists have lauded the series; Yoshihiro Togashi wrote a praising comment featured on the obi of series fourth volume;[180][181] Osamu Akimoto wrote a praising comment featured on the obi of the series' fifth volume;[182] Takayuki Yamaguchi praised the series and recommended it in a 2018 interview, around the time of its tenth volume.[183] Author Kinoko Nasu called it one of his favorite new manga works.[184] Comedian and novelist Naoki Matayoshi also praised the series

>>281102393
>you can absolutely reverse engineer why and KnY has been dissected a million times now
If this was really true, we would have multiple kimetsus right now

>>281116477
>Great works of art
You're reading a manga from weekly shonen jump lil bro
Dragon ball has nothing to learn from, nor is it great art. as torishima have said.

>>281106974
lol the ToC proves kny was on top before the anime was even announced

>>281117663
Torishima >>> Togashi
Torishima >>> Akimoto
Torishima >>> Nasu
Torishima >>> some nobody who wrote some samurai slop

He made Dragon Ball, so I'd take whatever he says over some hack who'll never finish his manga (YYH and HxH are both incomplete), some rinse and repeat gag hack (Akimoto), some hack who got famous off of a porn game (Nasu), some literal who that wrote samurai slop #5321 and some shitty Japanese comedian.

>>281117916
>He made Dragon Ball
he did not.
He literally was going to make goku a kid the entire manga

Dragon ball popularity came from the budokai tenkaichi when goku was an adult. Dragon ball would be axed without toriyama

>>281117892
And then the sales charts and Nakano says another story that BTFOs /wsj/'s TOC headcanon. Here, read 'em and weep.
>>281104370
>Regarding the series' sudden huge success, Weekly Shōnen Jump editor-in-chief Hiroyuki Nakano stated that the manga sales shot up straight after its anime adaptation finished, explaining that a large number of people watched the series through streaming services after it ended rather than watching it weekly. Nakano also stated that currently is harder for a manga series running in the magazine to become a hit, and Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba despite having started in February 2016, did not became a major hit until late 2019, adding that its "success hinged on word of mouth generated after the anime's run".

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2020-02-11/jump-editor-in-chief-explains-what-unusual-about-demon-slayer-success/.156186

>>281117916
>some nobody who wrote some samurai slop
retarded shonen slopper
His manga is one of the greatest if u werent a manchild who only reads shonenslop
>>281117983
Manga was still popular, just not a 1m seller popular. which it became and BROKE RECORDS after the anime
you can cope, but these are facts

>>281117975
He discovered Toriyama and helped make Dragon Ball, cope
And Dragon Ball was a hit long before Goku was an adult, it was a hit in the second arc thanks to Torishima who told Toriyama to introduce tournaments and give Goku a rival aka Krillin.
>Up until the Tenka’ichi Budōkai began, the series hadn’t been all that popular. That’s what Torishima-san had told me. “Your protagonist is rather plain. That’s why it’s not popular.”, he said. Personally, since I was doing a fighting story for this series, I had intentionally made the protagonist’s clothing excessively plain. So this annoyed me, but then I figured it out. “Well, let’s increase its popularity” I thought. When I had designed Goku’s character, the words that best represented him were “I want to become strong”. So I thought I’d bring that to the front. Even during “Dr. Slump”, the tournament-like events such as the Penguin Village Gran Prix or the Mini-Event had been amazingly popular. So I’d simply make the story into a tournament format. From there the Tenka’ichi Budōkai was born. I temporarily withdrew the other characters besides Goku, brought back Kame-Sen’nin, and added Kuririn as a new character. From there it got popular before I knew it.
>>281118045
>blah blah blah samurai slop manga is the greatest i ever read i swear!!
Said no one ever and then Dragon Ball proved to be better anyway.

>>281079276 (OP)
That's probably the most mild torishima take
He shat on dragon ball itself (which is weird) and one piece.
His opinion on AOT is retarded as fuck and made me lose all respect for him.

>>281079276 (OP)
So?

You think the anime had nothing to do with Dragon Ball Z popularity?

>>281104370
Kek jeremy you're kneeling to us CSMgods now?

>>281079276 (OP)
Torishima is a faggot who wants all manga to be the ultimate slop device and not to have any actual writing because that'd be too complex for the normalfags. He also wants the slop to be neverending and to milk it for eternity. He's the most retarded faggot in history.
SNK >>>> dragon slop and naruslop

>>281118727
Torishima is based for letting hacks know they're not writing the next big epic, they're literally writing children's comic.

I want more manga to be like Dragon Ball. They would actually be fun and less preachy. SnK is pretentious garbage and KnY is a moralfaggotry lecture. They're not fun.

>>281079276 (OP)
I thought that was common knowledge already.

>>281096147
>Manhwa
>Manhua
Kys Gookshill, their powerscaling are fucking retarded

>>281096147
Battle manga are still being made though?

>Some Japshit gained a success
>/a/ condemn it like it's commiting a massive genocide
Not gonna lie I'm starting to believe the "anti Japan" narrative

>>281096008
JJK and Sakadays exist

>>281095819
Oh, that explains these /v/ tier posts like >>281096138 and >>281095293

>>281081865
big dick energy
i also really only care about DB

>>281118727
Facts. Only one who disagrees is a Gokufaggot that deepthroats his cock because he wanted to ship Goku with Bulma.

>>281098137
Yes, but the abilities are more convoluted/complex.

>>281106973
The point of an editor is to stop the author from doing stupid shit and tell them when their ideas suck

>>281079276 (OP)
What a fantastic analogy. I kneel, Torishima.

>>281100354
Well yeah he had like 10 editors. If he listened to them we would've had Carrot instead of her story being wasted.

>>281117781
>Dragon ball has nothing to learn from, nor is it great art. as torishima have said.
many artist learn to draw from dragon ball, animetard

>>281124298
At_LEAST_a goodbye would have been nice, like the anime did.

>>281081640
tohashi, oda call toriyama god cope animetard

>>281079276 (OP)
TRVKE

>>281079276 (OP)
lol

>>281114655
Nah, more like a concept only the mentally retarded can get.

So he's not perfect, it's just that nobody ever calls him out on his shit.

>>281079525
brutal

>>281079525
cunning

>>281079276 (OP)
Torishima should've died instead of Toriyama

>>281079525
And Toriyama cooked this week for week
What a talent

>The narrative

Lying about things that happened less than 5 years ago

>>281079276 (OP)
He literally praised KnY's story in earlier interviews, so I don't trust a single word he says now.
AND this guy acts like he was the true creator of DB or something, and honestly, that shit rubs me the wrong way.
The peak quality arcs — Saiyan and Namek — were under Kondo, not Torishima.

>>281130551
He praised it early on, and he only praised about the first chapter. This was back in 2021 when KnY was at the height of its popularity and the most overrated thing in the world of anime and manga. Just because he praised it 4 years ago, doesn't he holds the same opinion now, with the hype dying down.

>>281130551

He praised it early on, and he only praised about the first chapter. This was back in 2021 when KnY was at the height of its popularity and the most overrated thing in the world of anime and manga. Just because he praised it 4 years ago, doesn't mean he holds the same opinion now, with the hype dying down. People's opinions can change overtime.

>>281130846
>with the hype dying down
You really love passing your opinions as facts, huh.

>>281130896
Nope. Compare the oversaturation of KnY back in 2020-2021 with Mugen Train and compare it now, and you'd see a stark difference. It's still popular, just not a phenomenon like it was 5 years ago.

>>281079525
I will never understand why people dick suck Toriyama fights so much. The guy can't write a fight to save his life. Sure, he can draw them very well but that doesn't make a good fight. There is zero sense of continuity or progression in his fights. 99% of it is watching two action figures clash until the writer decides "Alright, Goku wins". The only real exceptions are some of the gag fights early on and the Vegeta fight.

Like, this fight is a prime example of it. Sure, it LOOKS great. We are still some distance away from the Freeza saga where everybody is made out of rubber. But what is the actual flow and progression? Goku and Tien punch for a bit, Goku basically decides "Alright, I'm stronger now", Tien tries to use a clever move, but Goku still goes "Nah, I'm stronger" and wins. That's almost every single fight in Dragon Ball after a certain point. Until you get to the Cell saga where characters basically just stop fighting.

>>281130846
Changing your opinions just because the current trend says so is the biggest sign someone can't be trusted.
It means you’ve got no spine and no original thought — just another NPC parroting whatever’s popular.

>>281130920
I only see it constantly breaking records despite the far more competitive market.
Even the fucking manga is back to selling again, and it has the highest per volume sales of any manga.

>>281130551
>He literally praised KnY's story in earlier interviews
He acknowledged that Demon Slayer’s first chapter was structured well and that’s about it. Not that the series was a masterpiece, not that Gotouge was the next Toriyama, not that this thing had the legs to carry the shounen crown for the next decade. He said:
>「鬼滅は第1話の作りが非常にうまい」
>“Kimetsu’s first chapter was extremely well-made.”
Which is just a surface-level compliment, not a full endorsement of the entire series. He just said the first chapter introduces the characters and goals clearly which is literally the minimum requirement for a serialized shounen debut.
>so I don't trust a single word he says now.
You trust his praise, but not his criticism? That’s some cherry-picking hypocrite nonsense. You can’t prop a man up as a genius when he validates your favorite, then shove him down the stairs when he tells the truth years later once the dust settled. That’s like quoting the Bible to support your point but ignoring all the parts that call you a degenerate.
>AND this guy acts like he was the true creator of DB or something
I mean, he kinda was. Without Torishima lighting a fire under Toriyama’s lazy, half-assed ass, we wouldn’t have Vegeta, Frieza, Cell, or any of that. Toriyama was gonna end DB early, as early as Pilaf. He wanted to make a gag manga that was just a parody of Journey to the West but Torishima pushed for it to evolve, literally demanding Toriyama improve his action storytelling, which eventually led to the Saiyan arc. He wasn’t just an editor, he was the creative catalyst behind Dragon Ball’s tonal shift and longevity.
>The peak quality arcs — Saiyan and Namek — were under Kondo, not Torishima.
So what? Torishima still built the foundation. Kondo just maintained the house. Torishima helped create the momentum and standards that made DB thrive. Kondo inherited it.

For me, Torishima is the most overrated guy in the industry.
Thanks to him, 90s–2000s Jump turned into nothing but low-IQ punchfests with zero depth.

>>281131039
>Torishima helped create the momentum and standards that made DB thrive. Kondo inherited it.
... and actually made it what it is.
There's a big difference between saying
>you should do this and that
and actually working with the author to do it.

Reminder, Jeremy, that superman is already being pulled from cinemas after barely doing 500 million and its director confirmed it flopped internationally and the movie basically bombed.
So much for
>I'm always right in my prediction

>>281131133
$527M, actually. That's still more numbers than Mugen Train ever made, and Mugen Train had all the cheat codes in the world: pandemic, zero competition and a whole year to run in the theaters but still got beat by Superman not even a month later, lol. Mugen Train even had a re-run to increase its revenue and still couldn't outgross it. Embarrassing.

>>281079276 (OP)
The real question is: did he actually say that?
Most of the time, these quotes are just cherry-picked and twisted by people to fit their own ideology.
And when it's translated from Japanese to English? That distortion gets even worse.
Anyone got a primary source or actual scan of the interview where this was said?

>>281131004
The manga is back to selling, but that's to be expected with every anime that adapts a manga. They all get a bump. It sold 200 mil copies 4 years ago, which was back in the Mugen Train wave. All the sales it made, came from 2020-2021. It got a 20 mil bump, but that was 4 years later.

It has the highest per-volume average, yeah. But it was also short, that's basic math. You divide 220M by 23 volumes and you get 9.5M per volume. Which is great, but also just means it stopped while it was ahead.

>>281131039
>He wasn’t just an editor, he was the creative catalyst behind Dragon Ball’s tonal shift and longevity.
torishima wanted goku stayed kid
you sound like like contarian btw

>>281131216
Apparently the original source is a book Torishima published called “Botsu”, but from what I’ve seen on Japanese forums, literally no one has actually bought the book or read the original text.
This is a textbook example of how distorted information spreads on the modern internet.

>>281130922
you are so retarded holy fuck you probably complain about action movies thats its just punching and kicking and ignore all the creativities put in the fight
>muh WRITE THE FIGHT
i have seen enough of this midwit shit like luffy beat croccodile bc hes wet ignoring the fact that wet sand is still sand, jojo fight just keep mental gymnastic fighting just for the sake of to surprise its retarded audience

>>281080192
This is also true. Just see how SnK got already almost completely erased from the NPCs' consciousness even though the movie came out like a year ago or so. And MAPPA milked it out for so long.

Modern shonen has no longevity.

>>281079276 (OP)
he’s right
i would never have followed demon slayer without the anime, the story is as basic as it gets, the characters are boring and also manga isbsuper poorly drawn. visually, it was impossible to read, and as for the anime, the story isn’t that captivating either and none of the characters are charismatic
what kept me going until now is clearly the animation

>>281080192
>Most of the currently trending manga will disappear within 3 years.
>KnY is already popular for 6 years.

>>281080135
sandman should slit his throat already

>>281132761
Only because it's kept on life support by the anime
See how no one talks about it when the anime isn't airing ?
Exactly

>>281082066
>Sword of a stranger?
Fucking easily this one. I've never seen swordfights animated this well, i get chills just by thinking about them.

>>281087382
Opinions like that just shows how retarded people can really get

>>281131053
>m-muh depth
Don't care. I can read a book that deals with the same themes a lot of these pretentious hacks like Isayama and Gotouge superficially introduces in their slop manga that are much better written and have less of an immature childish view about the world bent on them, with the added benefit of not having to suffer through their disgusting shit art while I enjoy them. I'd tell you as much, I don't see manga as a cinematic art form, and I don't care about manga as an art form. I view manga as a product first and foremost and I read manga to have fun. Dragon Ball is fun, slops like AoT and DS are not fun.

I know what I'm getting with Dragon Ball and I can name very few manga that are comparable to it on a technical level. Manga is a sequential art meaning "show don't tell" is still a golden rule, but it gets ignored by hack authors like Gotouge's limitations and lack of understanding on what makes a manga fun.

>>281095709
You won this one

>>281132922
>I know what I'm getting with Dragon Ball
I punch harder i win ooga booga

>>281132829
It's only natural for a series to stop being talked about when there's no new content.
KNY especially suffers from this since its story is relatively short.
What most people in the West don’t realize is that even Dragon Ball was completely forgotten for several years after the manga ended —
and that was despite the fact that it had GT as a brand-new continuation.

That's crazy because I like the manga much more than the anime