Thread 33413458

i'm not very happy with my body so i want to know if i could get anything out of fitness for strength/appearance or if i should just give up and focus solely on cardio for health over everything else. my main problem is that i have the same shoulder size as a teenage girl.
my greatest desire is for somebody to tell me to either give up or keep trying. i'll listen if the opinion seems well informed. i'm 23 years old, a khhv, haven't talked to a woman my age in a casual setting in almost a decade, and starting to recognize that i'm way too old to feel insecure about my body. it's wasting my life. i want to know if trying to become involved in that sphere (sex, relationships) is even worth it or if i should abstain. the latter hasn't been bad so far. i've gone around 2 weeks without masturbating and my erections are being less frequent as time passes because frankly any thought of sex makes me want to kill myself


relevant body stats
>race
white
>height
5'8.5"
>weight
135 pounds
>biacromial length
13.5-14 inches depending on how i measure
>waist
30"
>chest
37"
>hips
36"
>len length (roughly so some margin of error)
39
>torso length (roughly
21
>ratio of leg to torso length (roughly)
1.857
>leg to body ratio (roughly)
0.56
>wrist circumference
6"
>stretched flaccid penis length (because why not i already have the tape measure out lol)
5.7"
>DIAMETERS of chest, waist, and hips as measured from front (inches)
11/11/15
>hand length from wrist to middle finger
7.5"
>width of middle of out stretched hand
3.5"
>2D:4D ratio
0.89

i can provide any other requested measurements that might be necessary to make a decision

>how do i hide my hips
>can i make my shoulders wider
oh look my answers are on a ... FtM forum...
how should i feel about this as a man? please ADVISE me!

I didn't really start lifting weights until about 16 or 17, I would imagine 23 isn't much different. Did you play any sports? It might make the transition to the gym a bit easier but it's not a requirement. It's more like a hobby you do by yourself than a team thing
Get a book on free weight exercises and access to some dumb bells and bar bells

>>33413488
i'm not looking for fitness advice otherwise i would go on fit. what i seek is ethical advice. ethics as in how i should live my life, shape my character, etc. seems like blindly spouted off advice without reading my post.

but yes. i played sports in high school and middle school. during a warm up run, in the orange glow of a balmy autumn afternoon, i saw my silhouette cast onto the seaside path, and first noticed my deficiency. the point of my measurements today was to confirm that yes, objectively, my shoulders are narrow.

>>33413501
what i mean by that is i'm not looking for advice on HOW to become fit. i can find that in many other places. this is a different kind of fitness advice

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

I remeasured my shoulders with a more reliable method (back against the wall, marking where my clavicles end on the wall with a sharper marker) and there is a chance my biacromial length is actually 13. but again, self measuring is unreliable so i'll simply expand the range from 13.5-14 to 13-14
so that places my shoulders comfortably within the range of female shoulder sizes, and a far outlier for male sizes

>>33413584
also i measured my clavicle and it's about 6 inches, so what the hell is up with my biacromial length. the internet says i have an average clavicle length but a <10th percentile biacromial length. i measured from bump to bump with bump in multiple ways and i got the same range of measurements every time

>>33413458 (OP)
>i want to know if trying to become involved in that sphere (sex, relationships) is even wort
are you seriously asking this on a chud incel vietnamese basket weaving forum full of people with crab in a bucket mentality?
anon let me unveil a secret to you: your body is pretty much irrelevant
the only things that matter, if you are thinking of lifting for women aka for relationships/pussy then there are only three things that matter, in this specific order of importance:
>FACE
>HEIGHT
>FRAME

>>33414434
i was hoping for a more nuanced opinion that takes into account my body statistics. otherwise i would have gone to looksmaxx forums.

>>33414654
your body proportions don't matter
if you don't have the face

>>33413458 (OP)
>/fit/ is that way

>>33414714
nigger, men with a regular fit body can easily steal your girl over someone with just a good face but a bad physique. I have both

>>33414769
did you actually read beyond the title of the post or are you a mongoloid?

>>33413711
could some knowledgeable person please interpret this for me. how tf are both of my clavicles of an average length but i have the shoulders of a girl. what caused this?

>>33414774
>aka it's pointless to lift without a somehwat decent face
congrats on figuring this out bro, bet you were the smart kid in class

also I have another question.
every time you bring up some physical defect, women say
>oh there are girls out there who won't mind (at least this implies it's bad, though it still implies the woman speaking WOULD mind)
or if they're bold
>i actually know guys with that defect and they've dated. the woman says they never noticed (again implying that the speaker WOULD notice and dislikes that trait)
but I think that women have this idea of some perfect guy except for that one defect, when in reality the man with the defect is perfectly average in all ways plus the defect. Even IF there are women who look past (or LIKE!) that features (shortness, narrow shoulders, etc.) are there enough women out there who like that defective trait for every man who has that trait? no answers so far...
>oh i don't notice any physical features at all! just be confident! women love confidence teehee
why are women hardwired to lie? why are they so concerned with face that they'll prevaricate to avoid being unpleasant? do they not care past a certain point because they've been socialized to accept that they'll settle for a mid to ugly dude for a 'friendship' marriage and steadily tapering maintenance sex?

if I know this is true? if i know it's bullshit, then why do I CARE SO MUCH?!!??! I wasted my whole day babysitting this thread. I'm a virgin so I don't even know what I'm missing. I could've practiced music or drawing or studied a new subject today but instead I wasted it on BLACK PILL BRAIN ROT!!!!!! but if the black pill is right then i need to discard it like a ladder. it took me to the next place, exhausting its purpose. WHY AM I SO STUPID?!?!?! WHY DOES THE BELL CURVE CURSE MEN TO FAILURE FROM WITHIN THE WOMB? WHY DO I CARE IF I KNOW IT'S SUPERFICIAL AND INSIPID! I know that for as long as I'm insecure, my chances go from slim to none, because it's impossible to connect with someone when I only view them as a means to affirm my worth... but why do I care...????

>>33415248
because i know that anyone can leave me at any time for any reason whatsoever. the atomization of society and radical individualism encourage this, rebuking those who speak out, the 'entitled' ones, the nice guys, the incels, the neckbeards; same concept new name every few years. but WHY DO I CARE IF I KNOW THIS?!?!?! the black pill is ostensibly a pill. you take it and go on with your life. it fixes your ailments. the fact that blackpillers feel the need to proselytize on the web for self-affirmation (i'm ugly, i'm short, my bones are too small, i'm low IQ... it's okay to quit! it's okay to be a loser! please tell me i'm allowed to quit mommy please love me!!! we can all be happy losers you just need to join me and destroy the invisible oppression!) means the black pill failed! there is really no way to not care. it consumes you until you kill yourself. it's not a medicine but a radical death cult that expedites genetic culling. how could I be so stupid?!?!?!? who made me like this? when did I start to care?

>>33415289
life sucks. i'm quitting out of this shithole. who cares about my narrow shoulders i'll just wear a baggy hoodie, monk robes to complement my vow of chastity.

oh but i'll be back... the only way to stop caring is to endure the stress from the cognitive dissonance of pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist while simultaneously comparing yourself to them for milestones in self improoooooooooooooooooooovement. clearly there are no answers. if the black pill is a pill i can just spit it out RIGHT?!?! lol lmao even...

>>33415308
it's not fair... other people don't have to think about their flaws like this... they were never forced to be the shortest in their friend group or the only one on the sports team who had a girly body, the one whose body stopped growing at 15 when everybody else got wider and manlier. I JUST WANT TO NOT CARE!!!!!!

>>33415328
>it's not fair... other people don't have to think about their flaws like this...
Do you honestly believe that? Not sure if this is bait or if you're legitimately this detached from reality.

>>33415342
what usually happens is
>i'm insecure
>oh actually my flaws aren't flaws at all
>well that settles it!
while for an unfortunate minority it's
>i'm insecure
>oh my flaws are actual flaws, people judge me for them, and they play a part in why my life isn't going well
>i'm insecure
i'm saying that some hapless schlemiel gets to be at the bottom of the totem pole no matter what. somebody exists only to suffer so other people can take a sigh of relief
>at least I'm not THAT asshole!

>>33415342
and there's a big difference
on one hand you have
>oh i have a boyfriend who loves me but i'm still insecure about my weird tummy pouch :((((
or the much hated
>short guys, us tall girls have it just as bad, okay? think about how UNFEMININE we feel :(((((
and on the other hand
>people have openly mocked me for my physical shortcoming and nobody has ever asked me out before because of my fucked up body/face

i'll be going to bed soon... any closing remarks before i let this thread die? might kill myself tomorrow if i'm up for it. or maybe i'll read a book, relax, get some research work done to make up for the time wasted on my mental breakdown today...

-short, narrow shoulders, wide hips, ugly, maybe i should just wear baggy clothes to hide my appearance like a ftm tranny. they're the only "men" i can sympathize with, because my shoulders are literally as wide as a small woman's

>>33415662
only like 5 people actually responded to my thread so i'm a little disappointed... i guess everybody has their own problems, screaming into the void that is their own empty threads instead of replying to anyone else. or nothing needs to be said. i'm ugly. i can suck it up and take action like a man or i can cry on 4chan all day. nobody is going to waste his time "convincing" me of anything, especially when i come off as so tendentious

>>33415676
i might talk with my doctor about a test for klinefelters... my body silhouette is almost as bad as what i posted

can somebody please reply to me :3. i've been taking to myself all day. anyone who's been where i am? has a similar body?

Bimp

Update
Measuring biaromial again I can confidently say it is 13", the same as that of a little boy or woman

second update
just measured my dad's biacromial it's 13" to HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I'M SO FUCKED! at least he's 3 inches shorter so it looks slightly more proportional!!!!!

third update
measured my brother's biacromial and it's also around 13-14 inches, but he's 6'3" so it looks even worse!!! my family was cursed with narrow shoulders probably as divine punishment against my father for being a deadbeat with his other family

>>33413458 (OP)
>>height
>5'8.5
It's over

>>33418206
i never cared about my height, and i could probably gain an inch if i fixed my poor posture, lack of flexibility, and pelvic tilt. my problem is that my proportions are all screwed up. my entire immediate family has actual 0th percentile shoulder widths. when i look up average biacromial for men it's 16, and the standard deviation is really small. it's even considered below average for women.

i think this goes beyond insecurity (when i look up 'narrow shoulders' online, nobody's are as bad as mine) over some minor flaw and is instead a struggle to cope with an actual medical disability

i look up 'biacromial' and all i get are average joes whining about their 16 inches and the inability to be a cannonball chad male model, or skinny fat people who don't understand how bones work, or people who are 5'4" instead (for which that width would be normal). NOBODY understands my problem except for me. i'm a complete anomaly.

>>33418238
actually, i was wrong. the only ones who understand me are ftm transmen. and in a way, i 'm no different than they are. we're both struggling to be men and contending with what is written in our bones.

can somebody please help me. anyone with any advice. you could be a ftm for all i care. was anybody here able to save himself from having 0th percentile shoulders as a male?

PLEASE HEL PME

>>33418315
twinkmaxx

>>33418331
you misunderstand. twinks are still masculine. wide hips is a physique killer for all types of men. also that won't work in 5 years when i start balding. i'm already 23.

>>33418334
Why don't you exercise and see where that gets you?
Otherwise, you need to prepare for the possibility that you're going to be a KHHV your entire life. I'm in the same boat in that regard.

>>33418347
i want advice from people who are as deformed as me. even when i got on lgbt i never see anyone with 13 inch biacromial, 16 inch bidelt. in fact it's full of men crying about how they'll never pass because they're >16 bidelt. even on looksmax forums i've seen only encountered one other person with =<13 biacromial, and his body was smaller in general so it was a different scenario

it's very difficult to find people who are in the same boat as me. if i type 'narrow shoulders' i barely get any results for men, just women's fashion and bra shopping. the men who do have 'narrow shoulders' never measure anything, and their only evidence is poorly taken photos so there's no real way to know. when i try to refine my search with quantifiable measurements like 'bideltoid' or 'biacromial', i run into looney troons crying about having wide shoulders, and mentally ill looksmaxxers with average bodies who want to have 99th percentile 19 inch biacromial length.

the only other possibility is that i'm measuring wrong. i've done it over and over. bone to bone for biacromial. end to end for bideltoid.

either my family has the narrowest shoulders in the world or normal people lack the terminology to articulate their problems, and those who seek out the terminology fall down a rabbit hole, becoming insane.

i'm starting to think that i wasn't meant to be a man. some prenatal hormone accident gave me a penis by happenstance.

>>33418380
Are you sure you're not gay already with the sort of avatarfagging and effeminate way you type

>>33418388
i'm not going to suck your penis.

other people like me exist, right? where are they? they're not posting here, that's for sure.

>>33418389
OK well thanks for confirming
And you've already admitted that you're in the 0th percentile for biacromial length for men, do you expect there to be many here who could give you advice?

>>33418390
somebody could be in an upper percentile for biacromial length but still have narrow shoulders because the rest of their body is of a similar proportion to mine. that's why i included my proportions in the OP

>>33413458 (OP)
you're so cute, i just want to tell you that

>>33418394
i'm not
weird androgyny monster. mad science experiment of modern endocrine disruptors.
here's a photo for proof, least flattering presentation possible but still
https://desuarchive.org/r9k/thread/78322685/

Bump

I'm considering getting bloodwork done to see if maybe HGH or trt could save me... But everyone in my family has narrow shoulders so it might be genetic, but what if I have genes for low test or something and that causes the problem...

>>33419057
never mind i retracted my request. felt embarrassed because all the doctors online say that only bro scientist retards obsess over hormone levels.

leaving this thread for good
i guess i'll just wear baggy sweaters all year round, exercise more, and avoid backpacks

>>33419057
Chief, before hopping on steroids, try exercising and eating in a small caloric surplus. For bigger, broader shoulders, you're going to want to do some overhead pressing and lateral raises. Pull-ups, pull-downs, rows or other lat-focussed exercises will give you a wider upper back and, in turn, more of a 'V' taper. You can do all these at home with a pull-up bar and a set of adjustable dumbbells.

>>33419451
i do pull ups every day and i will continue to do them alongside other exercises because my current posture is so bad that i have breathing problems. on top of that i have ED and circulation issues that i hope to resolve. i just know that exercising won't make me any wider, so it's best to ignore that aspect of fitness and focus on health instead. i am in the 'acceptance' stage of this ordeal.

good news actually. i realized i was measuring it slightly wrong. i would stop at the tip of the shoulder but the acromial process is slightly after that, so i actually have at least 14 inch biacromial, not 13 inch like i originally thought. that's still very narrow but at least it's a little bitter

>>33420221
by "tip" i mean the peak of the shoulder, when the doctors in demonstration videos go slightly past that. so i have narrow shoulders but they aren't as bad

after a third measurement, i think it might actually be in the range of 14.5-15, but definitely at least 14 like i said

i'm so hopepilled right now this is the happiest i've ever been in my entire life