How would the final year of World War II have played out if that table leg hadn't been in the way? Like, I realize Germany had pretty much already lost the war by that point but how would it happen with Hitler dead and the country potentially fighting a civil war within its world war?

>>17860488 (OP)
Faster occupation by the Allies. They had already made clear unconditional surrender (because the Third Reich COULD NOT BE TRUSTED) was the only option and the USSR was going to take half of Germany regardless.

>>17860489
This. It wouldn't have gone much differently. Especially since the WAllies were already pushing through France. All the final pieces were on the board.

Had they iced dat nigga circa April 1944, things might've gone differently.

>>17860489
>They had already made clear unconditional surrender (because the Third Reich COULD NOT BE TRUSTED)

To be fair, they were also entertaining overtures by Himmler on and off going all the way back to 1940. I'm sure they could have been flexible on what was considered "unconditional" surrender if it meant ending the war with drastically fewer deaths

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn38TLpvRp0

>>17860489
this.
only believable change in my mind coulb be, that the german high command giving up the western front and trying to hold the tide against the east possibly leading to a faster cold war as the soviets would feel betrayed.

>>17860488 (OP)
Weapons?

Also at that point the main difference would be much more Germans alive amd much more Germany intact at the end of 1945. Which is nothing to scoff at.
I also belive that Germany irself wouldn't be partitioned. But Soviets would still got Konigsberg and most of todays Poland.
Czechoslovakia might've become part of western sphere or might've become neutral like Austria.
Overall it's a pitty somebody kove that briefcase.

all bizarre assassination circumstances are the result of time travelers trying to structurally prevent nuclear war
I firmly believe this despite a total lack of evidence

>>17860488 (OP)
It wasn't a table leg, it was Hitler's massive cock

>>17860494
>prevent nuclear war
Nani?!

>>17860488 (OP)
Some of these other comments are missing the mark by a bit. A full year off the end of the war would have greatly reduced the Soviet footprint in East Europe. There may not even have been an East Germany, especially since the Soviet army would never have made it to Berlin for the Great Raping and Looting. That would have been a huge loss of their stolen brain and industrial loot from Germany, plus the fact that Germany would have had so many more Germans alive and being productive krautisms

FDR would have been in much better health for whatever Yalta-equivalent negotiations that would have ensued, so Stalin would have got less than he did. The Soviets wouldn't have been positioned to occupy the Kurels, either. Japan would have fallen slightly faster with more resources available to pour into the Pacific theater. These are seriously significant factors that would have impacted containing the Soviets throughout the entire Cold War.

And, like it or not, there would have been at least one million (if not two) more Jews alive. That would also have impacted Jewish brain trust & wealth while slightly reducing some of the worst concentration camp horrors. The highly traumatic repercussions of the Holocaust stories & evidence would have had less influence over Western guilt ... if not in the first couple of decades than maybe not so strongly for so many decades. Not insignificant.

Overall, it would have made some huge differences. There is an entire tsunami of butterfly effects that would be virtually impossible to map out and determine with any certainty what today's world would look like. Changes in world political alliances alone can barely be imagined, NATO and the United Nations would be vastly different or maybe not even have happened at all in any form we see them today.

>>17860497
Interesting thought experiment(s). Also worth considering just how many Soviet lives that would have been saved. A large number of them would also have been Ukrainian. Major implications for the current Ukraine war.

>>17860498
Didn't the soviets suffer most casualties early war?

>>17860499
They had vastly more captured early in the war but their base battlefield casualties (KIA, WIA, MIA) were consistently abysmal throughout the whole conflict.

>>17860495
So he transitioned?

>>17860497
Assuming the allies agrees to a German surrender which isn't unconditional, or that the german officers agrees to unconditional surrender, which might lead to a Germany divided anyway.

Or if the officers do like they did in ww1, and simply continue the war as a military junta.

>>17860497
If Germany's industries and brain power had been preserved, we would have seen a Cold War with completely different power dynamics. Giving half of Germany to the mongols was such a massive tragedy. So many years of progress lost.

>>17860488 (OP)
Germans would have probably collapsed much sooner and Western Civilization wouldn't have the glorious German last stand on its epitaph.

Most likely Goering would take over and promptly annihilate anyone remotely related to the conspiracy. Himmler with control over the SS has a small chance of conducting a coup against Goering, but his longstanding rivalry with the Wehrmacht, lack of an air force and strange persona, creeping around like a dentist with the ether, would put him at a disadvantage.

In real life Goering wanted to surrender to the allies, he would dislike unconditional surrender and would try to delay it, but it seems likely he would rather surrender to the allies than the Soviets and focus on defending the east, possibly as they approach Danzig in October, likely by January as the Soviets threaten to push into the rest of Germany, the last chance to surrender to the allies before they lose most of the country to the Soviets.

It is officially "unconditional", but Goering is lowkey promised some level of immunity to expedite the process. Goering begins the process by sending troops to the eastern front where they are much needed and the allies begin to occupy parts of Germany peaceably while permitting the German economy to continue supplying their troops on the eastern front. By February allied troops enter Berlin and position themselves on a line behind the Germans and German troops promptly retreat to this line and surrender.

Stalin spergs out over the allies reneging on the Potsdam conference, but can't really do anything without lend lease. He of course breaks his side of the bargain, supporting communists in Greece, attacking German troops and seizing territory where he can, stopping before they reach allied lines. If Goering surrenders early the "iron curtain" may only extend from the Baltic states to Romania, if he surrenders later it might look more like it did in real life, sans east Germany. If Goering frees all the jews promptly after Hitler's demise he and others like him might escape with life imprisonment.

>>17860497
>And, like it or not, there would have been at least one million (if not two) more Jews alive. That would also have impacted Jewish brain trust & wealth while slightly reducing some of the worst concentration camp horrors. The highly traumatic repercussions of the Holocaust stories & evidence would have had less influence over Western guilt ... if not in the first couple of decades than maybe not so strongly for so many decades. Not insignificant.

The only significant Jewish populations under German control that were still intact by the summer of 1944 were Hungary's (the deportation and extermination of Hungarian Jews had only really started in May and didn't pick up until after D-Day), Romania's (Antonescu refused to deport Jews in the Old Kingdom because he wanted to terrorize them for himself/use them as leverage with the Western Allies), and the Lódz Ghetto in Poland which had been kept around longer thanks to Chaim Rumkowski's unsavory dealings with the SS.

The majority of Ukrainian Jews were dead by the end of 1941, Baltic and Dutch ones by the end of 1942, and Polish ones by the end of 1943.

>>17860497
You realize that the fallout from this is that it's just going to create another stab in the back myth, especially if the conspirators agree to unconditional surrender, something the allies demanded.

Unfortunately Germany had to be beaten to the last door for everything to stop.

>>17860488 (OP)
>>17860497
I feel like you guys are losing the obvious parallel here.
Hideki Tojo lost power as Japan's Prime Minister on July 18, 1944, following the fall of Saipan to the Allied forces. Japan signed the Armistice ending the war on September 2nd in 1945. We could just see a late war transition of power

>>17860603
I think this would have legs because Goering could delegate to military leaders and worry about the politics while Himmler worries about the Panzers and how they are deployed

Nazis would have capitulated to the UK, and WW2 would have shifted to a US-USSR conflict over Germany itself. This doesn't actually change much but it means the Cold War begins a year sooner than it actually did, and Stalin probably invades Japan before Americans can nuke it. Germany suffers less ultimately and many "former" Nazis make it into the new Allied government as they did in Italy. The "holocaust" becomes a Russian theory.

>>17860488 (OP)
If you believe the muh “tabel leg” story, then I have bad news for you: you need a caretaker because you’re drooling and retarded.

>>17862132

Nigger, it's been tested by scientists multiple times and has been decisively proven that if anything else had been different (using a cheap plywood table, two bombs being used, the conference being held in the bunker as originally planned, etc.), Hitler would have almost certainly died.

>>17860603
FDR didn't want to do anything like that though. He liked Stalin

>>17861881
>Nazis would have capitulated to the UK
No. They would have surrendered to the Allies.

>WW2 would have shifted to
No. WW2 would have ended, and Soviet troops would not have been in any position to sack Berlin. Stalin would have taken far less of East Germany, and possibly not been allowed to divide Germany at all. The USSR was "the Allies" at the time, there would have been no "war" between the USSR and the remaining Allies. The war would have been over and territory held would have been the dividing line. The original borders of Germany probably would have been enforced, or possible some land annexed to Poland.

The Cold war would have started a year early, but at some interesting disadvantages to the USSR.

Interesting repercussions may have been 1) no need to nuke Japan at all and 2) the Space Race between the U.S. and the USSR would have favored the U.S. even more. Also, 3) Soviet influence in Cuba and the Cuban missile crisis may have been diminished or never happened. If Japan hadn't been nuked and the Soviets hadn't looted Germany, the entire nuclear arms race would have been quite a bit more lopsided in favor of the West.

>>17862404
>that time FDR and Stalin were joking about mass executions of German officers and Churchill though they were being serious

>>17863251

wut

>>17862644
Lol you're talking nonsense.
The allies demanded unconditional surrender, which means borders wouldn't be as they stood at the time of the capitulation (or even pre-1938). You would still end up with a complete occupation of Germany even if the unconditional surrender occurred on 1944.
And the Soviets would absolutely demand their half of Germany to occupy, since they would be a part of the surrender negotiations.
To do otherwise means thr allies sign a seperate peace with Germany, something which FDR outright refused (Churchill wanted a seperate peace, as did the German officers). Stalin and FDR had been very clear: unconditional surrender + no seperate peace. Germany was to be occupied and divided, whether they surrender in 1944 or at the smothering ruins of Berlin.

>>17863251
>3 million Indians and Bengals (our own allies) dying is acceptable collatoral damage in a world war, but I draw the line at 50 000 Nazis

>>17860494

based

The war ends sooner, Germany suffers less, and the Cold War could look very different—potentially with no East Germany, no Berlin blockade, or even an earlier NATO–Soviet split.

>>17860497

this

>>17864865
>Reading Comprehension FAIL 101

>>17860488 (OP)

Germany surrenders in September-November

>>17860488 (OP)

Assuming the July 20 plotters actually succeeded in seizing power? Germany fights for another 4-5 months before capitulating when it becomes apparent that the Allies won't budge on unconditional surrender.

>>17860488 (OP)
>country potentially fighting a civil war within its world war?
A bunch of influencial people would probably end up dying under mysterious circumstances, but how would Germany get split into two factions that could fight a civil war?
What would they fighting for? The July 20 conspirators accused their opposition of being the Anti-Hitler conspirators.

>>17860489
>they couldn’t be trusted
>they immediately give them all jobs in the post war government
Who do the shitlibs explain this?

>>17860491

Lmao flip Himmler

>we wuz superior
>loses
How do poltrannies explain this?