Thread 17896685

>>17896685 (OP)
>this post will get 300+ replies and seething semitists saying Romans were actually Mesopotamians and that your picture is fake

>>17896685 (OP)
Remember that history was written by the people who overthrew and killed him so I dare to say the things we know about him are exaggerations if not straight out bullshit

We seriously need to ban /lgbt/ and perma ban any IP that's ever posted on that board

>>17896926
i hate troons as much as the next person but /lgbt/ is probably among the least problematic boards of the website

>>17896926
>ban the faggot containment board so that faggots can just colonize other boards
You are a faggot. So I guess it isn't working.

>>17897075
>i hate troons as much as the next person but /lgbt/ is probably among the least problematic boards of the website
How do you figure?

>>17897081
>>ban the faggot containment board so that faggots can just colonize other boards
They already do that now fag lover

>>17897081
>>17897094
These must be teenagers

>>17896685 (OP)
>disgracing Rome by fucking your emperor

>>17897075
Least problematic? They pretty openly teach how to make bathtub hormones, actual certifiable medical HRT already shaves years of your life, the homebrew shit they advocate for is basically melted plastic.

>>17896899
>If you don't wholly accept cherry picked historical narratives and propaganda then you are ignorant and hateful towards the LGBTQP(edophile) community.
>We have exactly one study and a few pieces of pottery to show you if that bulletproof reasoning is not sufficient.
>If you somehow point out that none of these are sufficient proof for the wild claims we make we will nuke the board with a 300 post long cope session.

>>17897629
>We have exactly one study and a few pieces of pottery to show you if that bulletproof reasoning is not sufficient.
What are you talking about

>>17897778
Pedos love posting the 98 Rind study, the pottery is in reference to the infrequent depictions of sexual acts on pottery.

>>17897804
I don’t know what the study is but if you’re talking about homosexuality in antiquity, there’s simply too much evidence to ignore. There’s also a lot more than “a few pieces of pottery”. There’s at least 1,000 surviving pieces of pottery depicting homosexual acts, and way more pieces of pottery with kalos inscriptions dedicated to males. So many prominent poets from the Archaic to the Hellenistic era wrote homoerotic poetry (Ibycus, Anacreon, Simonides, Sappho, Callimachus, Theognis, Theocritus, Virgil, Martial, Horace, Catullus). So many major playwrights included homosexuality in their works (Aristophanes, Aeschylus, Plautus) or themselves were said to have engaged in homosexuality (Sophocles, Euripides). So many major historical personalities had homosexual affairs and desires attributed to them (Socrates, Plato, Solon, Aristides, Alcibiades, Epaminondas, Lysander, Parmenides, Zeno of Citium, Sulla, Trajan, Hadrian). So many gods and heroes were described as having homosexual affairs too (Zeus, Apollo, Orpheus, Heracles, Achilles).

Everyone who has ever had a classical education knows that homosexuality was a public and significant part of life in Ancient Greek and Rome. Pic related. It is only now that classical learning and the teaching of Greek and Latin have disappeared that this revisionist nonsense can gain traction

>>17897818
Homosexuality of course did exist, it always has and always will. The two pedophile /his/ posters broadly characterize ancient homosexuality as having an extremely pederastic nature, while this was true in certain areas they transpose that onto broader regions and timeframes with virtually no evidence to support it.

As for pottery, I do think these reflect elements of society but they aren't as representative as we may think, though a thousand or so shards of pottery is a large number it is still a small proportion and whether these were pornographic/suggestive to the ancient viewer is not clear. Plays do unequivocally mention homosexuality quite a bit, but the character of it is not always positive and the homosexuals are often depicted in a mocking light, which tracks with attitudes of the time.

>>17897609
If you trust groomers on /lgbt/ to remodel your life it's entirely your fault. The solution to online grooming is just one power button away.

>>17897918
>broadly characterize ancient homosexuality as having an extremely pederastic nature
But that's true, it did.

>>17898054
In certain areas at certain times. sure, however they argue that it was common in all cities of Greece and beyond that pretty much every pre-Christian culture, this is regardless of whether or not we have actual sources from these cultures and often times in direct opposition to the factual reality.

>>17898070
>however they argue that it was common in all cities of Greece
No they don't, this is a strawman you have invented.

>>17898029
Sure we know that, they target children though.

>>17898072
Trying your hardest to play the role of someone else I see? Your posts are a matter of record, everyone knows exactly the line of argument I am not sure why you would try and lie.

You should also work on your tone, your girlish haughtiness when challenged is quite identifying. I suppose that even though you like raping children, you still are a faggot at the end of the day, it makes sense.

>>17898082
>Your posts are a matter of record
So show me a single post where I've claimed that pederasty was practiced in all cities of Greece.

>>17898087
Term search pederasty on the archive and find it yourself.

>>17898092
So you can't actually provide a single example of anyone arguing on this board that pederasty was practiced in every single Greek city because nobody ever actually argued that and it's just a strawman you invented in your mind?

>>17898094
No I can, I just don't feel like it.

>>17898096
>No I can
No, you can't, because it never happened.

>>17898094
Is your position now that it was only common in some Greek cities? This is a hard fought concession, but bringing one step closer to reality is a good thing I guess.

>>17898070
It was common in a lot of cities, certainly not all. Xenophon says it was practiced in "most cities", while arguing that it was not practiced in Sparta.

>>17898099
>Is your position now that it was only common in some Greek cities?
It was practiced in most cities, as >>17898100 points out. Nobody ever claims that pederasty was practiced in all Greek cities, this is a strawman.

>>17897094
>How do you figure?
Not a lot of people posting dead children or death threats there
>colonizing is bad but only when people I don't like do it
lol

>>17898105
So other than a single sentence mention from Xenophon on the practice, to what extent did it exist on the Greek peninsula and islands? Can we discern the character of the practice too, was it explicitly sexual, or did it serve a wholly civic/pedagogical function, what evidence do we have as to this character outside of a foreign account? Is there any reason to believe, without ulterior motives, that the condemnation of some of the most influential city states on the peninsula did not reflect on to those which they held dominion over?

The issue with your claims has always been that you assume the correctness of your starting position, that it was pervasive and accepted across both time and space until those no-good Christians came about. You do not engage meaningfully with anything that runs counter to your position and find echo chambers to cite which agree with you anytime you are forced to acknowledge the intellectual shortcomings of your position. You have done this habitually with both antiquity and psychological research.

>>17898114
While we lack the quantitative data to say "X percent of Greek cities practiced pederasty," the overwhelming body of qualitative evidence—literary, legal, philosophical, and artistic—leads modern scholars to conclude that it was a common and socially recognized institution, particularly among the elite, in many of the most prominent Greek city-states during the Archaic and Classical periods. Xenophon's generalization, therefore, is not a standalone claim but is corroborated by the cultural landscape of the time.

>>17898132
>Xenophon's generalization, therefore, is not a standalone claim but is corroborated by the cultural landscape of the time.

It is if you assume the sexual characteristic of this relationship and assume that your interpretation of the practice is what it actually was in the cities where it was practiced.

>>17896685 (OP)
El worshipper

>>17898137
>It is if you assume the sexual characteristic of this relationship and assume that your interpretation of the practice is what it actually was in the cities where it was practiced.
Xenophon states explicitly, "in most of the Greek cities the laws do not oppose men’s desire for boys". The sexual nature of pederasty is corroborated by historical, archaeological, linguistic evidence (the word paiderastia means the erotic love of boys; eros is strongly associated with sexual love, especially when used in reference to other people) and common sense.

Furthermore, not all homoerotic relationships between men and boys in Greece occurred within an institutionalized form of pedagogical relationship common among elites, as is evidenced by poetry, prostitution, comedy, myth, etc.

>>17898166
There are limitations to Xenephon's account and his understanding, the corroborations which exist are scattered and paint the picture of a practice (which like most things) varied in its expression between region and time. The highly sexualized character you presuppose as default simply lacks the requisite evidence but you have spent much your adult life, attempting to see in whatever it may have been, a justification for your own desires.

>>17898170
>There are limitations to Xenephon's account and his understanding
There are limitations to anyone's account of anything. Xenophon had a sufficient understanding of the practices of various Greek cities to make a qualified statement on the presence of pederasty among them.

>the corroborations which exist are scattered
Almost all ancient sources relating to ancient Greek social practices are scattered, you are engaging in selective skepticism.

>and paint the picture of a practice (which like most things) varied in its expression between region and time
Nobody denies this, you are strawmanning.

>The highly sexualized character you presuppose as default simply lacks the requisite evidence
This is an oxymoronic statement. Pederasty is an erotic relationship between a man and a boy, it is of a sexualized character by definition. You are imagining a non-sexual form of pederasty which is non-existent because of personal bias clouding your judgement on this issue. You aren't provided any evidence of your imagined "non-sexualized" form of pederasty, either.

"The erotic love of boys in ancient Greece was non-sexual" is one of the most moronic positions to have ever been seriously promoted on this board.

>>17898179
>There are limitations to anyone's account of anything.

Exactly, which is why the scattered and fragmentary nature of the sources we do have on pederasty do not constitute proof for the moral frame work and characteristic nature you presuppose.

>Almost all ancient sources relating to ancient Greek social practices are scattered, you are engaging in selective skepticism.

Woah! It is almost like I said exactly that and insinuated that this applied to pederasty as well as other things.

>it is of a sexualized character by definition

It had non-sexual expressions which were identified as pederasty by contemporary observers.

>>17898183
When faced with your own epistemic flaws you run back to the echo chambers.

>>17898190
>that this applied to pederasty
But it doesn't apply to your nonsensical, oxymoronic assertion that pederasty, the erotic love of boys, in Greece was of a non-sexual character for some odd reason.

>>17898192
>posting a picture is running back to an echo chamber

>>17898196
Pederasty is sort of an exonym, for one, same with erotic. Putting that aside, Xenephon even does not distinguish the non-sexual nature of Spartan or Elean "pederasty" as constituting a different practice. This should be a hint that there is a bit of presentism going on in your understanding, but that is why you will never be made to see sense the issue as I fear it has calcified.

>>17898206
to see sense on the issue*

>>17898206
>Pederasty is sort of an exonym
No, it's the anglicized form of the Greek word παιδεραστία/paiderastia.

>Xenephon even does not distinguish the non-sexual nature of Spartan or Elean "pederasty" as constituting a different practice
Because spartan pederasty was not non-sexual. In Plato's symposium, when Aristodemos is comparing views on whether it is right or wrong for men to have sex with boys, he says of Spartan sexual conventions:
>“What is more, while sexual conventions in other states are clear-cut and easy to understand, here and in Sparta, by contrast, they are complex.”

Xenophon states that the Spartans believed that sexual relations between men and boys were permissible, under the condition that the man was not solely interested in the boy carnally, but attracted to him spiritually also:
>The customs instituted by Lycurgus were opposed to all of these. If someone, being himself an honest man, admired a boy's soul and tried to make of him an ideal friend without reproach and to associate with him, he approved, and believed in the excellence of this kind of training. But if it was clear that the attraction lay in the boy's outward beauty, he banned the connexion as an abomination; and thus he caused lovers to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse with their children and brothers and sisters with each other.

>see sense the issue as I fear it has calcified
You are completely unwilling to assimilate any new information which contradicts your preconceptions.

>>17898241
Well you see you are making large leaps to highly specific understandings of these practices off of single passages that simply do not specify enough nor are generalizable. You have to want pederasty to have always been the rape of little boys in order to conclude what you do, as what evidence we do have indicates that elements of your own bias are informing its conditions. The passage you posted specifically calls any physical attraction to little boys an abomination and you have bent yourself over backwards to say that this could have constituted sexual relations.

>>17896899
>a society full of faggots would've found the idea of the emperor being a faggot insulting
Doubt it

>>17898029
glib response. he is simply giving a reason why they are the worst the site has to offer. sure, it could be worse, they could be raping children and video taping it, but where is that allowed on this site?

>>17897818
I have never seen the “Greeks t-totally weren’t degenerate faggots” copers address this image

>>17899209
What is there to address there? Off hand comments from historical figures about their understanding of something which is not well understood even in modern scholarship? So people from the past knew less and had less stringent credentials for historical narratives they accepted, woah, no way. The image is only convincing if you work backwards from a thesis, rather than entertain the uncertainty of antique history and do not attempt to use it as moral justification for your own unnatural impulses.

>>17899258
Except academic historians do not agree with your sceptical position

>>17899269
They neither disagree nor agree with almost any thesis as broad or categorical as the ones posed here. Defining what pederasty was in Ancient Greece, that being some sort of relationship between an older man and a younger boy is just about as far as they will go. In some cases it was sexual in others not so much, evidence points in both directions and is incredibly fragmentary, not building towards a clear cut conclusion. Any scholarly consensus you imagine is just pop-history musings or passion projects of very depraved individuals who likely spend an equal amount of time advocating for "paraphilias" as they do "studying" them in ancient history. For something that gets as minimal a mention as pederasty does in our sources, definitive conclusions are not only pointless but baseless. We know about the Peloponnesian wars and individual battles, or the structure of the Athenian government, in far greater detail and there are still scholarly disputes there as to the character of these subjects.

>>17899315
This is complete delusional cope. There’s just no helping you, man. Worst is you imagine everyone who disagrees with you must be approving of homosexuality, instead of simply not being in denial about the facts

>>17899324
>For something that gets as minimal a mention as pederasty does in our sources, definitive conclusions are not only pointless but baseless. We know about the Peloponnesian wars and individual battles, or the structure of the Athenian government, in far greater detail and there are still scholarly disputes there as to the character of these subjects.

This apparently breaks the faggots mind

>>17899349
>minimal a mention
A good sign someone hasn’t read much ancient literature

>>17899358
It gets very minimal mention, any sources discussing any kind of sexuality are actually very rare relative to the total volume of historical data we have. Take some of the most central stories to Greco-Roman culture and these cultures conceived of themselves, the Iliad, Odyssey, and Aeneid. How many lines in these works are dedicated to discussing pederastic relationships that were apparently pervasive and almost universal in their obnoxiously evil characteristics? Aristotle too, how long does he spend discussing virtue, and to what virtue does he assign homosexuality in Nichomachean Ethics? Or Plato in Laws?

>>17899358
If you accept any positive mention of it you must also acknowledge when it was condemned and acknowledge the limits this conflict introduces to any claims made about the practice in our modern times.

>>17899383
>read Ancient Greek love poetry
>90% of it is directed towards boys not women
>read the most famous Ancient Greek philosophical texts on love
>it’s about faggotry
It’s just embarrassing. Reading the ancient Greeks as a normal heterosexual man is like an endurance challenge

>>17899358
You also need to acknowledge its absence, and the relatively brief nature of all its inclusions in literature, all of which point to a confusing institution that appeared to have contradicted both Greek and Roman moral standards depending on its expression and depending on the time. Definitively saying anything about ancient sexuality, let alone concluding that pederasty existing back then is some sort of moral justification for moderns engaging with the practice is a fantastical misreading of history.

>>17899396
90% of Greek poetry are the two texts I listed above. The Iliad and Odyssey are written/spoken in meter conventionally.

>>17899402
Sophistry

>>17899396
Perhaps you read the poetry as a gay man, and transpose your own thoughts on to it without even realizing, has that not occurred to you?

>>17899405
And you girlish haughtiness when I caution epistemic humility shines through again.

>>17899408
Sorry but I cannot endure one more line about boys thighs and lips. Why do you think I’m gay you retarded faggot. This is not normal shit

>>17899414
I assure you most Greek poetry is not concerned with this unnatural physical attraction. You have to look for the ones that are.

>>17899416
Lol maybe not quantitatively but it’s impossible to avoid. Every “great Greek poet” I read has at least a few poems about sodomising boys. It’s repulsive. Stop defending this faggot culture

>>17899383
>>17899400
Hopefully this is the capstone to an otherwise obnoxiously long cope thread. You can go on imagining everyone in Greece was turbo gay or turbo straight, whatever, but do not use ancient practices and our poor understanding of them as justification for your impulses.

>>17899428
Stop glazing your own posts

>>17899435
No, I'm not trying to mislead anyone, it's me who wrote them and myself that endorsed them. I think this should be where the discussion ends, I feel it is perfectly rational and don't think anyone should have an issue with it.

>>17897609
Not if you do it properly.

>>17898912
To the Romans being a top was manly but being a bottom was unmanly. Eating a woman out was also unmanly.

>>17898909
>You have to want pederasty to have always been the rape of little boys
The irony of this completely biased statement, which has no relation to my advocated positions whatsoever, in conjunction with the following; you are accusing me of what you are guilty of in your own post:
>as what evidence we do have indicates that elements of your own bias are informing its conditions

>The passage you posted specifically calls any physical attraction to little boys an abomination
No it doesn't, it says that if a man is attracted to a boy solely for his physical appearance, then a pederastic relationship between the two is an abomination. Also, Lycurgus' laws were not even followed at the time of Xenophon.

>and you have bent yourself over backwards to say that this could have constituted sexual relations
The nature of the sexual expression of pederastic relationships in Sparta is less clear than in other states (regardless, a bunch of men sitting around watching 12+ year old boys who they are in love with exercise naked is an erotic form of relationship which would be characterized as "child molestation" in the modern West) with seemingly contradictory statements in historical sources on the matter, but general scholarly consensus agrees with me that Spartan pederasty likely involved sexual activities, including pedication, so this is not just my personal opinion. Paul Cartledge, retired Cambridge professor says the following in his essay The Politics of Spartan Pederasty:
>In short, I have no doubt that the evidence of Xenophon and Plutarch is sufficient to establish the important conclusion that pederasty in Sparta was institutionalized and compulsory.” Whether or not sensual gratification, specifically sodomy, was a structural feature of institutionalized pederasty we cannot say for certain, though I would expect it to have been a widely prevalent feature.

>>17899383
>the Iliad, Odyssey
Written before the development of institutionalized pederasty. Regardless, the Iliad makes mention of the myth of the abduction of Ganymede (which is a pederastic myth).

>Aenid
Jupiter and Ganymede:
>deep in her heart remain the judgment of Paris and the outrage to her slighted beauty, her hatred of the race and the honours paid to ravished Ganymede

Nisus and Euryalus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisus_and_Euryalus):
>Here, for any who might perhaps wish to vie in speed of foot, he lures valour with hope of rewards and sets up prizes. From all sides flock Trojans and Sicilians among them, Nisus and Euryalus foremost . . . Euryalus famed for beauty and flower of youth, Nisus for tender love for the boy.

Cydon and Clytius:
>You too, hapless Cydon, while you follow your new delight, Clytius, whose cheeks are golden with early down—you would have fallen under the Dardan hand and lain, a piteous sight, forgetful of all your youthful loves, had not the serried band of your brothers met the foe—children of Phorcus, seven in number, and seven the darts they throw.

Apollo and Iapyx (one of many male loves of Apollo):
>And now Iapyx drew near, Iasus’ son, dearest beyond others to Phoebus, to whom once Apollo himself, smitten with love’s sting, gladly offered his own arts, his own powers—his augury, his lyre, and his swift arrows. He, to defer the fate of a father sick unto death, chose rather to know the virtues of herbs and the practice of healing, and to ply, inglorious, the silent arts.

>to what virtue does he assign homosexuality in Nichomachean Ethics
He condemns sexual passivity in men, not pederasty. He describes pederastic relationships in a positive light in the same work, see pic rel.

>Or Plato in Laws
Where it is implied that pederasty is a widespread practice during his time.

>>17899486
Romans were coping because topping is clearly gayer than bottoming.

>>17899428
>>17899462
No, you've made a bunch of failed arguments, and what little evidence you have provided is actually evidence against your own conclusions, as highlighted here >>17899638; your failed arguments can be characterized as follows:

Ad hominem: "I believe you to be a homosexual, therefore your conclusions are based in personal bias and not reliable" >>17898909

Strawmanning; claiming that your opponent is defending the thesis that pederasty was present in all Greek cities, or that it was equivalent to the rape of little boys >>17898070 >>17898909

Selective skepticism, i.e. the scattered and fragmentary nature of these sources supports your personal conclusions, but these sources can not be used in favour of any countervailing conclusions.

Dishonest claim that fragmentary nature of evidence is inconsistent with drawing a wider conclusion on the basis of this evidence >>17899315

Denial of eroticized sentiments in passages; denying obvious expressions of homoerotic love and lust >>17898170

Conflation of the personal sentiment of individual authors (whether real or imagined) for wider societal condemnation of the practice >>17899383

Misunderstanding/unfamiliarity of historical texts, as highlighted by claim that pederasty gets minimal mention in ancient sources, and the denial of pederastic content in the Aeneid >>17899383

This level of dishonesty leads any reasonable reader to conclude that you are arguing in bad faith, and defending a position rooted in personal bias, which you are unwilling to make adjustments to.

>>17899677
They didn't really think of it in terms of "gay", but in terms of "manly" and "dominant".

>>17898073
Children in 4chan?

>>17899817
more likely than you may think

>>17899694
Well you are a homosexual for one, and a genuine open homosexual pedophile at that, you have a fair bit of bias on the issue. Also pederasty was unequivocally the rape of little boys, children are not able to consent to an exploitative sexual relationship with an adult given their decreased decision making capabilities -- and a 14 year old is as much of a child in this respect as a 10 year old. No one employed selective skepticism, being skeptical of broad claims made about a poorly evidenced institution is not selective skepticism, it is reasonable skepticism. As to the rest of your claims I am not sure you fully understood each post, it seems the epistemic humility that I recommended to you came too late, as those are all incredibly gentle ways of explaining to you the fault in your reason.

>>17899988
>Also pederasty was unequivocally the rape of little boys
It both was not rape, and it did not involve children.

>children are not able to consent to an exploitative sexual relationship
This is a tautological non-argument; if you define the relationship as exploitative, than it seems obvious that a child can not consent to it. Regardless, pederastic relationships did not involve children.

>and a 14 year old is as much of a child in this respect as a 10 year old
No they aren't, adolescents are far more similar cognitively and physically to adults than they are to children.

>No one employed selective skepticism
You have throughout the thread.

>>17899994
>It both was not rape, and it did not involve children.

A 10 year old and a 14 year old both lack the ability to meaningfully consent to sex, no distinction can be drawn between them in that respect.

>if you define the relationship as exploitative

That is simply the nature of pedophilic relationships, they can be nothing but exploitative. Pederasty was extremely exploitative though, regardless of your feelings about pedophilia this much is undoubtedly true about pederasty.

>No they aren't, adolescents are far more similar cognitively and physically to adults than they are to children.

Not meaningfully so when it comes to their ability to make decisions

>You have throughout the thread.

Not engaging with your theses given their lack of merit they have isn't selective skepticism

>>17900198
>given the* lack of merit they have isn't selective skepticism

>>17900198
>A 10 year old and a 14 year old both lack the ability to meaningfully consent to sex
They don't. 10 year olds and 14 year olds have the capacity to willfully engage in sexual relations, and sexual relations that minors engage in willfully are not anymore causally associated with harm than sexual relations that adults engage in willfully. There is simply no valid moral or empirical grounds for claiming that minors of any age can not meaningfully consent to sexual relations.

>That is simply the nature of pedophilic relationships
It isn't, the majority of pedosexual relationships are consenting.

>Pederasty was extremely exploitative though
It wasn't, there were rules and expectations in Greek pederastic regulations which prevented them from being exploitative.

>Not meaningfully so when it comes to their ability to make decisions
Empirically untrue statement.

>Not engaging with your theses given their lack of merit they have isn't selective skepticism
No, you've engaged in selective skepticism throughout the entire thread, which any reasonable reader would recognize. Also, the handful of sources which you've presented supposedly in favour of your position, actually support my position >>17899638

>>17900293
> and sexual relations that minors engage in willfully are not anymore causally associated with harm than sexual relations that adults engage in willfully

There is no sufficient evidence for this claim, or any of your other pro-pedophile claims, aside from Rind who is a discredited researcher and unpublishable in reputable journals given his ties to pedophile advocacy. To say whether sole-causality is present is a difficult task but given the extremely high incidence of absent parents in cases where CSA does occur, attempting to distinguish these may not be meaningful as sexual contact of this vile species does not exist in happy homes.

>There is simply no valid moral or empirical grounds for claiming that minors of any age can not meaningfully consent to sexual relations.

Outcomes of CSA

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/research/impacts-csa/research-findings/1-impacts-csa-victims-and-survivors.html

Psychobiological causal pathways

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnins.2021.771511/full

>It wasn't, there were rules and expectations in Greek pederastic regulations which prevented them from being exploitative.

We don't even know whether the practice was explicitly sexual in the regions which practiced it, as elucidated prior, let alone what rules were or were not present. Given the nature of the relationship, that being it took place between an inexperienced youth and an older man with political/social ties, it is safe to say that even with out a sexual character this was to some degree an exploitative relationship assuming it ever stretched beyond pedagogical grounds. The young man could be compelled, through coercion of some form into political support of his patron for example.

>>17900293
>Empirically untrue statement.

Absolutely empirically true

>Neural connections that survive the pruning process become more adept at transmitting information through myelination. Myelin, a sheath of fatty cell material wrapped around neuronal axons, acts as “insulation” for neural connections. This allows nerve impulses to travel throughout the brain more quickly and efficiently and facilitates increased integration of brain activity [17]. Although myelin cannot be measured directly, it is inferred from volumes of cerebral white matter [18]. Evidence suggests that, in the prefrontal cortex, this does not occur until the early 20s or later [15,16].

>The prefrontal cortex coordinates higher-order cognitive processes and executive functioning. Executive functions are a set of supervisory cognitive skills needed for goal-directed behavior, including planning, response inhibition, working memory, and attention [19]. These skills allow an individual to pause long enough to take stock of a situation, assess his or her options, plan a course of action, and execute it. Poor executive functioning leads to difficulty with planning, attention, using feedback, and mental inflexibility [19], all of which could undermine judgment and decision making.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2892678/#S2

>Also, the handful of sources which you've presented supposedly in favour of your position

They are not a handful of sources, they represent quite a bit of the Greco-Roman cannon so to speak. They also have no clear descriptions of this pervasive social institution, gods fornicating with mortals, furthermore, does not constitute a pederastic relationship because gods are not real.

>>17900323
>or any of your other pro-pedophile claims
This is not a pro-pedophile claim, it is an objective, descriptive, empirically true claim.

>aside from Rind who is a discredited researcher
I've already refuted this nonsensical claim in another thread, pic rel.

>unpublishable in reputable journals
He was published in the APA.

>Outcomes of CSA
You can't be convinced and are arguing in bad faith, but if anyone reads the thread, here are some actually decent studies on the issue:
https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Research:_Prevalence_of_Harm_and_Negative_Outcomes
As well as a primer on exactly why the studies this anon is posting are not valid:
https://wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Research:_Methodological_flaws_and_syndrome_construction

>Psychobiological causal pathways
This is a review of purely observational studies which suffer from the exact same methodological flaws as the other studies on "CSA". The causal pathways mentioned are strictly theoretical.

>We don't even know whether the practice was explicitly sexual in the regions which practiced it
Yes we do, and this entire thread has evidenced that quite clearly. You are delusional.

>>17900330
>Absolutely empirically true
This excerpt does not prove your assertion that adolescents are more similar to children regarding their ability to make decisions. You are once again, reiterating arguments which I have refuted in previous threads.

>They also have no clear descriptions of this pervasive social institution
The sources you provided offer evidence for the existence of widespread pederasty, actually, as highlighted here >>17899638

>does not constitute a pederastic relationship because gods are not real
Gods, such as Yahweh, are constructed by people and reflect the attitudes of the people who invented them. For example, the intense jewish hatred for homosexuality is personified by their god in the Torah.

Just stop posting, you are embarrassing yourself.

>>17900356
>He was published in the APA.

Once and never again, blackballed I think you called it in another thread, wonder why he might have been?

>You can't be convinced and are arguing in bad faith, but if anyone reads the thread, here are some actually decent studies on the issue:

You linked to a bunch of studies from another pro-pedophilia polemical sources, the only people which will find your message appealing are other pedophiles especially if these are your sources.

>This is a review of purely observational studies

Yes it is a meta-analysis, establishing sole-causation is not really necessary for the crime of CSA as it rarely exists independently of a sordid life.

>suffer from the exact same methodological flaws as the other studies on "CSA"

They do not make any methodological flaws, they are explaining the causal pathways by which harm occurs in cases of CSA. Also here is no other medically recognized term for this species of abuse, putting it in quotations is an inaccuracy of language.

>Yes we do, and this entire thread has evidenced that quite clearly. You are delusional.

You have posted the same few passages you always do, none of which materialize enough evidence to prove that any such rules existed or even the nature of the practice across time and space.

>>17900356
>This excerpt does not prove your assertion that adolescents are more similar to children regarding their ability to make decisions. You are once again, reiterating arguments which I have refuted in previous threads.

You never refuted it, which is why I posted it again, anyone with the archive can watch you sputter out and start to cite a random video essay you tuber before quickly changing topics in the hopes of giving yourself a rhetorical edge.

>The sources you provided offer evidence for the existence of widespread pederasty

Its strange that all the practitioners of this happen to be gods and the mentions they get are quite scant, I heard that gods also throw lightning and preform metaphysical acts, are we to assume this was extant in Greek culture as well?

>Gods, such as Yahweh, are constructed by people and reflect the attitudes of the people who invented them. For example, the intense jewish hatred for homosexuality is personified by their god in the Torah.

Interesting line of thought, not sure what it has to do with this thread.

>Just stop posting, you are embarrassing yourself.

Tapping out already? Only you embarrass yourself with such perversions.

>>17900437
>Once and never again
The Psychological Bulletin is a highly prestigious, peer reviewed journal, and it was no mistake that his paper was published there. He is still published in respected journals. The negative reaction towards his paper was not based on the merits of the paper, and is a well documented example of politically motivated outrage and censorship, which was condemned by various scientific organizations and academics.

>You linked to a bunch of studies from another pro-pedophilia polemical sources
It is a non-biased review of relevant studies. An interested reader can read the studies presented, and the methodological flaws examined, and determine for themselves what is true.

>the crime of CSA as it rarely exists independently of a sordid life
Whether or not someone had a sexual experience with an adult as a minor is independent from their home environment, although in the modern West the two are often confounded.

>They do not make any methodological flaws
They do, and those methodological flaws are highlighted in the link posted.

>>17900447
>You never refuted it
The excerpt doesn't agree with your assertion.

>Its strange that all the practitioners of this happen to be gods
It's almost as though the epic poetry you offered is... mythological?

>are we to assume this was extant in Greek culture as well?
No because throwing lightning and performing metaphysical acts is impossible, and so these acts clearly do not reflect acts which were present in Greek culture. A god being married to a woman on the other hand, is a type of personification that would reflect a type of behaviour that was present in Greek culture, likewise, a god's desire for boys.

>Interesting line of thought, not sure what it has to do with this thread.
It is an example highlighting the fact that gods have personalities which reflect the sentiments of the people who create them. The characteristic jewish hatred for homosexuality expresses itself in myths about their god.

>>17900499
>and is a well documented example of politically motivated outrage and censorship

Nope, in fact he retained both his position and his doctorate despite the horrific nature of his advocacy.

>which was condemned by various scientific organizations and academics

It was condemned by himself and friends of the same mind policy wise

>It is a non-biased review of relevant studies

No it's another pro-pedophilia wiki

>Whether or not someone had a sexual experience with an adult as a minor is independent from their home environment

Actually it is directly related

>although in the modern West the two are often confounded

This is the cope you have been reduced to now, all because you couldn't help yourself from children?

>They do, and those methodological flaws are highlighted in the link posted.

That website lacks the credibility to makes those claims

>>17900499
>The excerpt doesn't agree with your assertion.

How exactly does it disagree with my claim that children are not capable of consenting to sexual activity with adults?

>It's almost as though the epic poetry you offered is... mythological?

Exactly. Myth.

>No because throwing lightning and performing metaphysical acts is impossible

Just as consensual sex with minors is impossible.

>so these acts clearly do not reflect acts which were present in Greek culture

Greeks often believed in the metaphysical nature of the world which surrounded them.

>A god being married to a woman on the other hand, is a type of personification that would reflect a type of behaviour that was present in Greek culture

Except no woman ever married a god, nor were any boys abducted by gods.

>It is an example highlighting the fact that gods have personalities which reflect the sentiments of the people who create them. The characteristic jewish hatred for homosexuality expresses itself in myths about their god.

Really? They hate homosexuality now? That is news to me.

>>17900521
>Nope, in fact he retained both his position and his doctorate
This does not dismiss the backlash against his study, which included an unprecedented condemnation by the US congress. You are acting as though losing your academic position is the only form of censure.

>No it's another pro-pedophilia wiki
Which presents a non-biased review of relevant studies.

>Actually it is directly related
This is an assertion of which you have no evidence in favour of.

>This is the cope you have been reduced to now
Poor home environment and adult-child sex are associated in the modern West due to the taboo surrounding adult-child sex, but a poor home environment is not a necessary prerequisite of adult-child sex. This fact is agreed upon by the researchers who publish the papers you post, who agree that home environment is a confounding variable.

>it disagree with my claim that children are not capable of consenting to sexual activity with adults
I never said it disagreed with your claim, only that it does not agree, or prove your claim. The amount of myelin in the prefrontal cortex reaching its maximum at a certain age does not imply that a 10 year old and a 14 year old have the same ability to make decisions. This is a non-sequitur.

>Myth
Not the sole form of evidence I have provided, it was a form of evidence which you introduced, which turned out to be evidence against your position.

>Just as consensual sex with minors is impossible.
Irrelevant, snarky comment.

>Except no woman ever married a god
Now you have just been resorted to trolling. I should remind you that in his Laws, Plato himself attributes the origin of the Ganymede myth to the desire of the Cretans to justify pederasty:
>And the Cretans are said to have invented the tale of Zeus and Ganymede in order to justify their evil practices by the example of the God who was their lawgiver

>They hate homosexuality now
The Torah explicitly proscribes homosexuality under the punishment of death.

>>17900591
>This does not dismiss the backlash against his study

Which was warranted.

>which included an unprecedented condemnation by the US congress

U.S congress did not condemn him, only said that his study would not bring about policy change and condemned it in that regard.

>You are acting as though losing your academic position is the only form of censure.

So he was not meaningfully silenced, as he would have been if there were some grand conspiracy, most journals of repute were just no longer interested in working with him as a result of his contravention of academic ethics.

>Which presents a non-biased review of relevant studies.

By its very nature it is incapable of doing so.

>Poor home environment and CSA are associated in the modern West due to the taboo surrounding CSA, but a poor home environment is not a necessary prerequisite of CSA. This fact is agreed upon by the researchers who publish the papers you post, who agree that home environment is a confounding variable.

Except no study has been produced which shows that this confounding is meaningful enough to call for a broad reassessment of CSA? Strange, also what researchers agree with Rind's study claims that the confounding is severe enough that it warrants a relabeling to a currently inaccurate term?

>I never said it disagreed with your claim, only that it does not agree, or prove your claim.

It is my chief piece of evidence that children are not able to consent, I think it proves that quite handily.

what the fuck are you schizophrenic pedophiles discussing about

>>17900591
> The amount of myelin in the prefrontal cortex reaching its maximum at a certain age does not imply that a 10 year old and a 14 year old have the same ability to make decisions.

My claim always has been that a 10 year old is equitably as incapable of consenting to sex as a 14 year old, not that the myelin sheath production and dendritic pruning is not sufficient. If we were to go by that then the early 20s would be the deadline, say 21, an age I would be ok with but I feel 18 is sufficient.

The most important bit is the second half, which is why I'm fine with 18 being the age of consent, as I feel that it prevents pedophiles from ever feeling joy while also securing a good enough point of development.

>Although myelin cannot be measured directly, it is inferred from volumes of cerebral white matter [18]. Evidence suggests that, in the prefrontal cortex, this does not occur until the early 20s or later [15,16].

>The prefrontal cortex coordinates higher-order cognitive processes and executive functioning. Executive functions are a set of supervisory cognitive skills needed for goal-directed behavior, including planning, response inhibition, working memory, and attention [19]. These skills allow an individual to pause long enough to take stock of a situation, assess his or her options, plan a course of action, and execute it. Poor executive functioning leads to difficulty with planning, attention, using feedback, and mental inflexibility [19], all of which could undermine judgment and decision making.

>>17900591
>Irrelevant, snarky comment.

which is also true, and is not irrelevant

>Now you have just been resorted to trolling. I should remind you that in his Laws, Plato himself attributes the origin of the Ganymede myth to the desire of the Cretans to justify pederasty:

So that's all you have? A condemnation by an extremely influential Greek of a hypersexualized myth means that what the myth was describing was super totally pervasive and accepted?

>>17898183
Fuuuuck, wish my dad kissed me like that

>>17900618
I wonder if the hot adult woman bit was a cope and it was actually a man who raped this little pedophile faggot.

>>17900611
>So he was not meaningfully silenced
Nobody claimed he was silenced, only that he faced unwarranted political backlash upon publication of his study. Another strawman. An interested reader can read the Rind team's account of the controversy here:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0962184900800013

>By its very nature it is incapable of doing so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

>Except no study has been produced which shows that this confounding is meaningful enough to call for a broad reassessment of CSA?
Not sure why this has any relevance to whether or not confounding is present. Regardless, pic rel. is a review of studies showing that family environment actually is more predictive of harm than "CSA".

>It is my chief piece of evidence that children are not able to consent
So your chief piece of evidence is a non-sequitur?

>>17900615
>has been that a 10 year old is equitably as incapable of consenting to sex as a 14 year old
You imply here that the ability to make decisions among adolescents is more similar to children than it is to adults >>17900198 which is an empirically unsupported statement.

>not that the myelin sheath production and dendritic pruning is not sufficient
This is evidence you provided to attempt to substantiate your argument, not your argument itself, which I have never implied. Also, you aren't providing psychometric evidence, the actual relevant form of evidence, because it would refute what you are claiming.

>The most important bit is the second half
Which does not prove or provide evidence in favour of your assertion regarding the capabilities of 14 year olds; the only way to interpret it as such would require another non-sequitur.

>>17900617
>means that what the myth was describing was super totally pervasive and accepted?
You aren't even attempting to logically follow along with arguments at this point. It seems I've triggered you to the point where you are incapable of doing so.

>>17900643
>he faced unwarranted political backlash upon publication of his study.

He faced no political backlash, his study did.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

Except it is not a genetic fallacy, because this presupposes that I am rejecting it on the basis of its origin. I am rejecting it on the basis of its bias.

>Not sure why this has any relevance to whether or not confounding is present.

It is extremely relevant as if poor quality of home life and pedophilic abuse have a relation of some sort, which they do, then it isn't meaningful confounding. If I asked you to look for blue roses and red tulips but then scolded me when you brought only tulips, you are not confounding variables.

>Regardless, pic rel. is a review of studies showing that family environment actually is more predictive of harm than "CSA".

Parents that are incapable of protecting their children is pretty much a prerequisite for CSA. There are cases where the parents do everything right but are tricked by a vile creature, however these cases are far less than situations in which CSA occurs as a result of negligence.

>So your chief piece of evidence is a non-sequitur?

It is directly related as this post >>17900615 shows

>>17900643
>You imply here that the ability to make decisions among adolescents is more similar to children than it is to adults

When it comes to sex, yes, as I state in that post

"A 10 year old and a 14 year old both lack the ability to meaningfully consent to sex"

>This is evidence you provided to attempt to substantiate your argument, not your argument itself, which I have never implied

this excerpt was my proof

"Although myelin cannot be measured directly, it is inferred from volumes of cerebral white matter [18]. Evidence suggests that, in the prefrontal cortex, this does not occur until the early 20s or later [15,16]. The prefrontal cortex coordinates higher-order cognitive processes and executive functioning. Executive functions are a set of supervisory cognitive skills needed for goal-directed behavior, including planning, response inhibition, working memory, and attention [19]. These skills allow an individual to pause long enough to take stock of a situation, assess his or her options, plan a course of action, and execute it. Poor executive functioning leads to difficulty with planning, attention, using feedback, and mental inflexibility [19], all of which could undermine judgment and decision making.

>Which does not prove or provide evidence in favour of your assertion regarding the capabilities of 14 year olds

You are right, technically the dendritic pruning and myelin sheath production capacities call for an age of about 21 or so in regard to neuromaturation. I am ok with 18 however.

>You aren't even attempting to logically follow along with arguments at this point

Because they have no point, you hold a fundamentally insane point of view and deserve to be humiliated for it, as I am doing now.

>>17900643
>So your chief piece of evidence is a non-sequitur?
Classic "pilpul". You don't need a laboratory experiment to prove kids are stupid and can't consent any more than you need a study to prove water is wet, you can eyeball it or remember what you were like as a kid.

Even if there is a 99.9% chance the little boy consents, it is not worth it for the 0.1% chance he does not, because you cumming is of zero value to society or to him and you could satisfy yourself easily by cumming inside a fleshlight. It speaks volumes about how utterly deranged you are that you have to go outside and find a little boy to stick yourself into.

We here on 4chan are not as easily phased as n*rmies and can talk openly about things like this, it is easy for someone with autism to put any disgust aside, but still pedophilia is peak ooga booga rape in the abstract. It is clearly not a northern European trait either since apart from the med pederasty was rare relative to other cultures. There was never a literal child rape gang in Britain in all of its history until the Pakistanis arrived and brought this custom from their homeland. It was no doubt introduced by semites, arabs and 'jeets from the east to the med, perhaps you yourself possess some admixture.

What we need are men like this, fathers who protect their kids and totally exterminate even the remotest threat to their children and their trad aryan communities, because the world is a brutal sick place that will eat you alive if you cannot fight.

>>17900711
Holy based

>>17900664
>He faced no political backlash, his study did.
This is a meaningless semantic squabble.

>I am rejecting it on the basis of its bias
This is still a genetic fallacy, as a biased source can still be correct; you are disregarding the information on the basis of its source rather than its content. Regardless, you have provided no argumentation in favour of the supposed bias of the collator.

If your response is that the information itself is biased, which I presume your response would have been considering that it would be a natural continuation of this faulty form of argument, then this is a category error, as information can not be biased; only persons can exhibit bias.

>It is extremely relevant as if poor quality of home life and pedophilic abuse have a relation of some sort, which they do, then it isn't meaningful confounding
Home environment and "CSA" can have a relation, and home environment still be a confounding variable. Whether or not it is a meaningful confounder is an empirical question, which has been addressed already (it is). You are making misleading statements about the nature of confounding variables.

>If I asked you to look for blue roses and red tulips but then scolded me when you brought only tulips, you are not confounding variables
Empirical data, as well as common sense, tells us that adult-child sexual contacts occur in a wide array of home environments, so this is a false equivalence. Even most self styled anti-CSA organizations make note of this fact, usually making statements along the lines of "child sexual abuse can occur in any family".

>There are cases where the parents do everything right but are tricked by a vile creature, however these cases are far less than situations in which CSA occurs as a result of negligence
Actually, the majority of sociolegally defined "child sexual abuse" is voluntarily engaged in by the younger participant.

>>17900724
You are predictable, and I know that your response will be that minors voluntarily engaging in sexual relations with adults is caused by poor child-rearing, but this is not an empirically supported statement, as twin studies reveal that parental effects are quite weak when compared to genetic effects when it comes to individual behaviour, sexual behaviour, social standing, teen pregnancy, morality, character traits, etc.

>>17900673
>this excerpt was my proof
And it is a non-sequitur. "The cognitive abilities of 14 year olds are lesser than those of people in their 20s, therefore a 14 year old is as capable as a 10 year old with regards to a certain capacity" is a non-sequitur.

>Because they have no point
No, you are just flustered and can't follow along with arguments.

>>17900724
>This is a meaningless semantic squabble.

It is incredibly important, not semantics

>as a biased source can still be correct

Not when they are extremely biased on the topic concerned, especially if they stand in opposition to meaningful and actual research.

>Home environment and "CSA" can have a relation, and home environment still be a confounding variable.

"If I asked you to look for blue roses and red tulips but then scolded me when you brought only tulips, you are not confounding variables"

>Whether or not it is a meaningful confounder is an empirical question, which has been addressed already (it is

Only Rind asserts this

>Empirical data, as well as common sense, tells us that CSA occurs in a wide array of home environments

proof?

>Actually, the majority of sociolegally defined "child sexual abuse" is voluntarily engaged in by the younger participant.

Legal is an important distinction here, good parents generally try and report it when their children are raped by a vile kike. And children obviously initiate or consent to this kike manipulation because they are retarded children.

>>17900727
> therefore a 14 year old is as capable as a 10 year old with regards to a certain capacity

Yeah, when that "certain capacity" is consenting to sexual relations, believe it or not a 14 year old is also less capable than a 20 something at this exact same measure. I draw the line at 18 to ensure that a modicum of neuromaturation exists in the individual before they have to make such decisions.

>No, you are just flustered and can't follow along with arguments.

I have broken down your arguments piece meal and responded to every one of them exactly according to your ridiculous epistemology, hell I can almost see your yarmulke from here with how hard you are denying the totality of your brutalization.

Seems you accidentally responded to yourself here >>17900727, try harder kike.

>>17900711
>You don't need a laboratory experiment to prove kids are stupid and can't consent any more than you need a study to prove water is wet
A satisfactory reason for why children should be considered incapable of consenting to sex would be a moral argument, which would be supported by empirical evidence (as such evidence is available and is relevant). If you aren't interested in doing so, and just want to defend your own ooga booga preconceptions, then do not join in on the discussion.

>Even if there is a 99.9% chance the little boy consents, it is not worth it for the 0.1% chance he does not, because you cumming is of zero value to society or to him and you could satisfy yourself easily by cumming inside a fleshlight
I disagree with your assertion that there is no value in pederastic relations, I believe there is immense value in such relations. But to entertain this line of reasoning, would you extend this principle to other activities that children engage in which have no social value? For example, there is arguably no value in children watching television, eating candies, or jumping up and down, and all of these behaviours have potential negative consequences. Should we therefore disallow all of these activities?

>It is clearly not a northern European trait either
The Greeks and Romans wrote that the Celts (continental, but still relevant) practiced pederasty. Marriage records indicate to us that adolescent-adult marriage was common in Northern and Western Europe until quite recently. The age of consent in most European countries was set between 10 and 12 before the late 19th century. Child prostitution is documented and was quite common in England, France, and Germany (that I am aware of). Pedophilia and hebephilia actually are endogenous to northern European peoples. I don't care though, because I am not a nordicist.

>>17900731
>>17900738
You have resorted to low quality trolling and name-calling, and as such, I am not responding further.

>>17900740
So you have been entirely BTFO'd and lack a response. I accept your concession pedospammer. Rest In Piss you miserable faggot.

>>17900740
It's insane, you use the fact that it's a new guy responding to you and your bullshit to repeat the same old lies you would never dare repeat in other discussions.

>>17900786
You are arguing that because a poor home environment is a cause of "CSA", home environment can not be considered a confounding variable, or it is a weak confounding variable (you aren't making it clear which position you are arguing for). This is amounts to trolling because you do not believe in this argument (or you are retarded and should be regarded as a type of inveterate, hereditary troll).

Home environment has an influence on both the independent variable ("CSA") and the dependent variable (psychological harm/maladjustment), so it is a confounding variable, even if it were the cause of "CSA". The degree to which this confounding variable matters is an empirical question (not just a vibes question), which is addressed here >>17900643 and >>17900356. Rind's excellent study found that home environment influenced adjustment problems more than "CSA" by a factor of nine.

You are also purposefully not following along with arguments, are refusing to expand on non-sequitur arguments to make them logically valid, and have resorted to name-calling out of frustration.

>>17900833
>your bullshit to repeat the same old lies
Like what? I have a feeling that you're butthurt that the historical record suggests that the Celts practiced pederasty.

>>17900903
>You are arguing that because a poor home environment is a cause of "CSA", home environment can not be considered a confounding variable

This is like so obviously true it is insane that you would deny it, good parents don't let their children be raped.

>Home environment has an influence on both the independent variable ("CSA") and dependent variable (psychological harm/maladjustment)

If we were trying to establish sole-causality we would struggle to do so, as we do with most things, even rote processes like biomagnification can be affected heavily by environment, but if those conditions exist most often together than measuring them independently is more of a loophole for RCTs than it is a meaningful data point. Say smokers and carbon monoxide inhalation

>The degree to which this confounding variable matters is an empirical question ... Rind's excellent study found that home environment influenced adjustment problems more than "CSA" by a factor of nine.

Neither the "confounding" present nor Rind's study has produced any meaningful push back or reconsideration in either the minds of policy makers, readers, or academia to reclassify CSA on the basis that it could potentially be "safe" for the child. This is because Rind's study was not excellent and his advocacy has sufficiently poisoned the well, beyond that however it also was insufficient for broadly recharacterizing CSA given the absolute mountain of research produced in the years following his 98 study which reaffirmed the explicit harm caused by CSA.

>You are also purposefully not following along with arguments

I have followed your arguments directly and explained to you each time why you are wrong, you will never be convinced but this cope session will at least be an example of why there is no reasoning with a pedophile.

>are refusing to expand on non-sequitur arguments to make them logically valid

So exactly what you are doing now?

>>17900903
>Like what? I have a feeling that you're butthurt that the historical record suggests that the Celts practiced pederasty.

No and you know that's not the case, we have literally no idea what they were doing, they existed mostly on the periphery of societies with writing and did so for thousands of years. Other than off-hand mentions we don't even really know what they called themselves.

>>17901878
>good parents don't let their children be raped
But the majority of "child sexual abuse" is engaged in voluntarily by the minor participant according to statistics. Why this is unlikely to be caused by home environment was explained here >>17900727. Also, parents' approval of their children partaking in sexual relations is heavily mediated by cultural values. In other cultures, for example, in traditional Hawaii, most parents have no qualms in allowing their children to have sex with adults — so your assertion of a strong, intrinsic link between poor parenting (relative to other members of society) and adult-child sex falls flat. This link is culturally contingent.

>but if those conditions exist most often together than measuring them independently is more of a loophole for RCTs than it is a meaningful data point
This isn't true, you are making a specious argument. The fact that poor home environment is often associated with "CSA" is precisely why it has to be considered as a confounding variable. Poor home environment is expected to be associated with "CSA", due to harsh taboos against adult-child sex, inability for parents to protect their children from unwanted/coerced sexual contact, and a lower age of sexual initiation/more general interest in sex among lower class individuals. Studies that properly take into consideration home environment as a confounding variable in their causal model find that it has a vastly more powerful effect on maladjustment than "CSA" >>17900643

>Neither the "confounding" present nor Rind's study has produced any meaningful push back or reconsideration in either the minds of policy makers, readers, or academia to reclassify CSA on the basis that it could potentially be "safe" for the child.
And studies on race and IQ have had no effect on immigration, education, or legal policy, despite having massive implications. This is because of political and cultural bias.

>>17901882
>we have literally no idea what they were doing
>Other than off-hand mentions we don't even really know what they called themselves
Yet in spite of this, we still have a multitude of sources, written in different cultures, separated temporally, claiming that they engaged in pederasty; most likely due to the fact that this was a strong, visible part of their culture.

>>17900903
this is a cool picture. I like to see depictions of ordinary life and people having fun
>tfw no crew of tight-knit childhood bros to learn how to fight with
>tfw no celtic qts to impress with your sword(stick)fighting skills
>no crew of dads and uncles (not pederasts you perverts) who teach you fighting and life values

it looks like you faggots are talking about pedophilia instead of how cool and wholesome the lifestyle depicted here is

>>17902327
>it looks like you faggots are talking about pedophilia
But it is likely that the Celts practiced pederasty. Pic rel. is an article on the matter published in the esteemed journal Paidika. Here are ancient sources discussing Celtic pederasty:
>So that in such a state riches will necessarily be in general esteem, particularly if the men are governed by their wives, which has been the case with many a brave and warlike people except the Celts, and those other nations, if there are any such, who openly practise pederasty. And the first mythologists seem not improperly to have joined Ares and Aphrodite together; for all nations of this character are greatly addicted either to the love of women or of boys.
— Aristotle, Politics

>Although their wives are comely, they have very little to do with them, but rage with lust, in outlandish fashion, for the embraces of males. It is their practice to sleep upon the ground on the skins of wild beasts and to tumble with a catamite on each side. And the most astonishing thing of all is that they feel no concern for their proper dignity, but prostitute to others without a qualm the flower of their bodies; nor do they consider this a disgraceful thing to do, but rather when anyone of them is thus approached and refuses the favour offered him, this they consider an act of dishonour.
— Diodoros of Sicily, Library of History

>And the following, too, is one of the things that are repeated over and over again, namely, that not only are all Celti fond of strife, but among them it is considered no disgrace for the young to be prodigal of their youthful charms.
— Strabon, Geography

>>17902452
>Under this arrangement, the remainder of the first quarter, by which I mean the European quarter, situated in the north-west of the inhabited world, is in familiarity with the north-western triangle, Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius, and is governed, as one would expect, by the lords of the triangle, Jupiter and Mars, occidental. In terms of whole nations these parts consist of Britain, (Transalpine) Gaul, Germany, Bastarnia, Italy, (Cisalpine) Gaul, Apulia, Sicily, Tyrrhenia, Celtica, and Spain. […]

>However, because of the occidental aspect of Jupiter and Mars, and furthermore because the first parts of the aforesaid triangle are masculine and the latter parts feminine, they are without passion for women, and look down upon the pleasures of love, but are better satisfied with and more desirous of masculine association. And they do not regard the act as a disgrace to the paramour, nor indeed do they actually become effeminate and soft thereby, because their disposition is not perverted, but they retain in their souls manliness, helpfulness, good faith, love of kinsmen, and benevolence.
— Claudius Ptolemy, Tetrabiblos

>So too the Celts, even though they have the most beautiful women of all the barbarians, prefer sex with boys; as a result, some of them routinely sleep on their animal-skins with two boyfriends.
— Athenaios, The Learned Banqueters

>>17902459
>Among the Gauls the youths give themselves as wives openly, not regarding this as a matter of reproach, because of the law among them. Yet it cannot possibly have been the lot of all in Gaul who thus impiously suffer outrage to have the morning-star with Mercury setting in the houses of Saturn and regions of Mars at their nativities. […]

>Thus their nativity does not compel […] the Gauls to cease from giving themselves as wives, […]

>And what shall we say concerning the sect of the Christians? […] And neither in Parthia do the Christians, Parthians though they are, practise polygamy, […] nor among the Bactrians and the Gauls do they profane marriage,
— Philip, The Book of the Laws of Countries

>>17902290
>But the majority of "child sexual abuse" is engaged in voluntarily by the minor participant according to statistics

This is probably one of the most obviously intentionally misleading things you could have possibly said and its shocking even coming from you.

>Yet in spite of this, we still have a multitude of sources, written in different cultures, separated temporally, claiming that they engaged in pederasty; most likely due to the fact that this was a strong, visible part of their culture.

We have like 1 or 2, and these are off hand mentions of a culture they clearly disliked and were actively at war with, we shouldn't use ancient propaganda pieces as credible evidence for a cultural institution.

>And studies on race and IQ have had no effect on immigration, education, or legal policy, despite having massive implications.

This is actually a non-sequitur, any study of racial differences that doesn't condemn white people in some fashion has been silenced in academic research, with most who venture this far getting their credentials and positions stripped form them. No such back lash exists for pedophiles, though it should, and we should reserve that same hatred for anti-white (((researchers))).

>>17902290
>In other cultures, for example, in traditional Hawaii, most parents have no qualms in allowing their children to have sex with adults

>Look this island culture that was in the stone age until white people came along was totally ok with [barbaric practice] doesn't that make you think hmmmm

>>17902290
>Studies that properly take into consideration home environment as a confounding variable in their causal model find that it has a vastly more powerful effect on maladjustment than "CSA

Citing Rind and newgon ten million more times won't make their conclusions any more valid.

>>17902615
>This is probably one of the most obviously intentionally misleading things you could have possibly said
Why?

>We have like 1 or 2,
There are six, which is more sources than we have for the existence of many Celtic gods, or for many other Celtic social practices, most of which are undocumented.

>we shouldn't use ancient propaganda pieces as credible evidence for a cultural institution
It isn't propaganda, these sources are mostly neutral, and in the case of Aristotle, he is complimenting the Celts.

>This is actually a non-sequitur
No it isn't. A non-sequitur is a form of argument where the conclusion does not follow from the premises, which I have not done.

>any study of racial differences that doesn't condemn white people in some fashion has been silenced in academic research
No it hasn't, there are plenty of studies on race and IQ that are published in academic journals (although the subject is censored), which have no effect on public policy due to political and cultural bias.

>No such back lash exists for pedophiles
This is delusional. Research into adult-child sex and pedophilia are two of the most controversial and censored subjects in the modern West. Rind et al. was the only study in history to be condemned by US congress. Academics who research the subject in a non-bigoted way (Stephen Kershnar, Rind, Tromovitch, Bauserman, Allyn Walker, Richard Yuill, Thomas Hubbard, Karl Andersson) have faced significant backlash due to their academic activities.

https://www.emilkirkegaard.com/p/the-taboo-hierarchy

>>17902638
But this tangential to the argument of which traditional Hawaii was brought up to support.

>>17902648
>won't make their conclusions any more valid
I agree with this. The conclusions of the studies provided are valid, and posting them repeatedly won't make them more so.

>>17902673
>The conclusions of the studies provided are valid, and posting them repeatedly won't make them more so.

You have been shown current research that objectively proves pretty much all of your statements wrong, within this thread and many others.

These two faggots argue with each other in every thread. They should just fuck already

>>17902673
bring up tangential bullshit and you will get a tangent, who gives a shit what niggas that were literally banging rocks together thought you stupid faggot.

>>17902814
>neo nazi speaks like a wigger
the absolute state of internet right wingers

>>17902792
>humiliates a literal predator faggot chomo
>gee you should probably have sex with him dontchya think

idk man, I'm sad when I see literally the last place left on the internet to discuss my hobby get swamped with these creatures. It is bad for morale and also invites unwanted eyes because these retarded faggots can't keep it in their pants.