Thread 64109456

Has the gun market become so saturated that it's become boring?

>>64109456 (OP)
Dude it has been boring for a decade

Yes but it's for the better
Guns reliably go bang now for not much money minus Sig
A Glock was like $600 or $700 10 years ago, now something JustAsGood is $250-$300 and you can bet your life on it.
ARs are also cheap as dirt.
Import 1911s are $300.
Only big change is lack of milsurps/ammo and Russian stuff is long gone

Even ammo is starting to come down. Doubt it'll ever be .25cpr for 5.56 again, but I can stomach $400 for a case of 5.56 and $200 for 9.

I think we're also starting to see the retards who bought guns during covid become disinterested in the hobby, so things are looking up maybe.

>>64109456 (OP)
Pace of technological change has ground to a halt in small arms. Even in the 2000s interesting things were happening, but it's going to be ARs and striker poly pistols for the next century.

>>64109456 (OP)
Stop buying new guns and buy used old guns zoomer. Get some taste and stop buying striker fired guns, they’re all the same.

just buy an sp101 and be done with it, you clearly want to be a counter-culture neo-fudd

>>64109483
It's worse with revolvers by a lot but pretty on point

>>64109517
>they're all the same!
>buys a 1911

>>64109517
>800 dollars for a 1911
I'm good, grandpa. Got a rust-heap Chevy Nova to sell me, too?

>>64109525
And? There is a huge variation in 1911s and from similar model gun to gun you have can have a wide difference in quality.

>>64109517
wake up grandpa a mosin is 400 plus now

>>64109461
>>64109456 (OP)
fpbp
but when the economy is good, consumers will slurp up any boring old shit
the market slowing down isn't because of any industry issue or product isuse.

>>64109529
>There is a huge variation in 1911s and from similar model gun to gun you have can have a wide difference in quality.

same with any model of gun you fuckin weenis.

>>64109456 (OP)
Buy pre 1980s S&W hand ejectors. Early 80's is when S&W is under new ownership and the quality starts to drop. You can check the year of manufacture by the serial number ber very easily.

The quality is superb and better than anything on the market today. The only drawback is you can't chase spicey pressures with them. Go for standard pressure loadings only with old school Smiths.

>>64109550
>wow! you can really taste the quality!

t. guy who slow-fires 38spc standing at 7yds

>>64109554
>t. guy who slow-fires 38spc standing at 7yds
I'd rather be at the range with that guy than Draco owners

>>64109554
To defend 7 yard slowfire, can you stack every round into the same hole?

>>64109554
>wow! you can really taste the quality!
Yes? You can't when you use a firearm?

>>64109562
>probably? i rarely shoot that close. it really doesn't mean much if you're an enthusiast shooter.

>>64109483
>Only big change is lack of milsurps/ammo and Russian stuff is long gone
>SKS ammo going through the roof
>bought used good condition M&P 15 Sport 2 for $500
Now I no longer worry about lack of affordable ammo.

>>64109575
>when you delete your previous post but forget the >

This is an industry that revolves around the price of ammo. Guns haven't changed much in 10 years, but the price of ammo has been a roller coaster ride.

Things were good before 2020, but anyone who has been around this hobby long enough already knows, nothing is certain. Things were ass basically throughout Obama (no I am not blaming him necessarily) until Hillary lost in 2016. Then things took a dive in 2020.

>>64109456 (OP)
Idk kel tec released the pr 57 and its a stripper clip fed 57 pistol and you know what that's fucking awesome

>>64109596
>Things were ass basically throughout Obama

mass shootings would always make prices skyrocket. they're old hat now so nothing changes.

>>64109456 (OP)
Yes but if you just want something that works, that's not as bad as you think. It's boring in that there's a variety of good options in every category. When is the last time you heard of a gun having a tight chamber?

The worst thing about the modern gun market is the decline of available military surplus. Back in the day there were less import bans, a better selection of cold war era firearms, and shit tons of surplus ammo. I still regret 2013, I was just getting into guns and /k/ and one of the first things I got was a bolt action 308, so when I was at my local gun store staring at $100 Moist Nuggets I didn't get one because I had just bought something better.

Also the average age on this board was lower so it was mostly a bunch of high school and college age dudes just fucking around with guns and military equipment for not a lot of money. Somehow along the way a lot of us have forgotten the fun is in the doing, not the buying.

>>64109609
The fact that the peak of posting on this board was a mostly forgotten mass shooting in 2013 is worth a chuckle these days. The war in Ukraine didn't even compete.

>>64109483
You’re right, things are better by the numbers. Though as someone who is very late to the game, I am sad I can’t obtain wood furniture guns and revolvers as easily as my parents generation. I’d happily trade my ARs and plastics for a couple of classic wood rifles and some old 6 shooters.

>>64109613
The internet gave a lot of retards the ability to capitalize on the hobby and make a quick buck. Essentially ruining the best parts of gun culture.

>>64109632
I remember nutnfancy's schizopost videos after sandy hook, in his basement or whatever looking like hell, crazy busy threads here of people trying to buy lowers and ammo, cheaperthandirt's price gouging. That was a wild time.

>>64109632
>The war in Ukraine didn't even compete.
Pretty sure The Clankening was near the top.

>>64109647
"gun culture" got boring because it lost all the mystique. now you KNOW everything instead of thinking gas-powered rifles ran on gasoline.

its just another hobby now.

>>64109636
>I’d happily trade my ARs and plastics for a couple of classic wood rifles and some old 6 shooters
There's literally nothing stopping you. Go on ODT and make some trades. I swapped my boring ass AR for a No. 4 Mk.1 and my lame ass glock for a Walther P1.

>>64110030
> gas-powered rifles ran on gasoline
Kek. I love the weird dumb interpretations we make before we actually learn. I thought guns shot little bits of fire for the longest time.

>>64110030
The more I think about this, the more right you are. Being a wide-eyed, inexperienced kid starting to actually be able to buy guns in a time when surplus was everywhere and ammo was balls cheap, seeing a whole new world to explore and learn about, was an experience. Now I've gotten like 90% of the guns I've ever wanted, my AR is situated in the exact way that tickles my urethra, and the gun world seems so much smaller now.

>>64110040
I hated my P38 so fucking much I sold it for cash to get my Glock.

>>64109483
>I think we're also starting to see the retards who bought guns during covid become disinterested in the hobby, so things are looking up maybe.
Yeah, I’m one of them

>>64110271
Get into handloading
It's limitless in what you can do

>>64110295
Yeah I do that too lol.

Yes. Every long gun is a stoner design, either AR15 or 18, and every pistol is a Glock. It’s probabaly expected, cause maybe it turns out that stoner solved rifles and Glock solved pistols, so the gas operated rotating bolt pivot takedown rifle and the polymer frame double stack striker fired pistol are just the crabs of their respective firearms genus. But idk I’m just some anon with not the best imagination in the world. Maybe they aren’t crabs.

I can conceive of only one more change to rifles. The next thing that ought to be explored/solved is the unified rifle and machine gun, so someone needs to pick up on Jim Sullivan’s life’s work and make a <7 pound quad stack magazine fed constant recoil LMG with MOA accuracy.

I just build parts kits so it still feels fresh because I have to learn a new skill each time a try a different project. I'll eventually run out of Cold War guns, but smg semi conversions are always janky so there will always be something to tinker on. Normgroid modern guns seem boring as shit though.

>>64110282
>I hated my P38 so fucking much
lmao why? I love my P1. Once you realize they're designed for one-handed shooting, they're so much fun

>>64109483
>Guns reliably go bang now for not much money minus Sig
sig has the opposite problem, where it reliably goes bang when you don't want it to

>>64109483
>Guns reliably go bang now for not much money minus Sig
Sig's go bang reliably way more than normal handguns, not sure what you mean

>>64109456 (OP)
Yes, but that has also made it cheap
In a time where you can easily drop 200 dollars a week on groceries you can pick up an AR15 for 400

>>64109456 (OP)
There's enough 1911 out there for me to pretty much never get bored

Both new and old

>>64109456 (OP)
Get into fudd guns or go back to plebbit

>>64109534
Mfw bought a M38 for $150 OTD in 2024

>>64109517
Lots of Pachmayr parts here, very nice
Very period accurate for decking out your 1911 the best you could around 1978

Looks similar to the Pachmayr Combat Special 1911, which was one of the best gucci guns in its day. This uses a colt base too. Pachmayr Combat Grips, compared to the mainline 1911 Pachmayr Grips which cover the mainspring pin, has a covered lip around the bottom of the magazine, and is a bit thicker, these are more expensive and better for carrying. Mainspring housing might be rubberized too. Good sights for the time, could change if you like novac better but I assume you want to keep it period correct.

Altogether I would say you got this at a very good price.

>>64109456 (OP)
Yes basically everything started going to shit between 2012 and 2014 due to Sandy Hoax and Obongo's sanctions on Russia. Whenever there's a panic buying frenzy, tons of normalfags go to plebbit/youtube and search for "what should I buy as my first gun?" Inevitably the so-called "experts" tell them they need an AR-15 and a 9mm Glock 19. So then that becomes all gun stores want to stock, and manufacturers adjust to meet demand. This all became worse during the memedemic that was followed by even more sanctions on Russia, which had been our primary source of cheap ammo and milsurp for decades.
>>64109596
>Guns haven't changed much in 10 years, but the price of ammo has been a roller coaster ride.
You're right about ammo, but what changed is that ARs became A LOT cheaper while AKs became A LOT more expensive. With handguns, almost all the cheap alternatives to 9mm plastic strikershit have dried up aside from Turkish 1911s and CZ clones.
>Things were ass basically throughout Obama (no I am not blaming him necessarily)
Obama was directly responsible for things like the 7N6 ban, barrel ban on parts kits, panic buying after Sandy Hoax, Russian Saiga ban, etc. He was awful, and Biden was only worse because he banned ammo and grey market imports from Russia entirely just when things were starting to recover from Obama's bans and the covid lockdowns.

>>64109529
>huge variation
>pile of identical guns

>boring
Because you made it part of your personality.

>>64109529
I bet you think the HK416 isn’t an AR

>>64109575
Who are you quoting?

>>64109550
>go for standard pressure loading with old smiths
You don’t have to be that careful. S&W themselves say:
>“Plus-P” ammunition should not be used in medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the frame. (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is in the open position)

>>64109456 (OP)
I actually disagree. I've been into guns for a long time and from my vantage point I think the industry has been constantly evolving and changing. Yes certain calibers and styles of guns have become very common but there is still plenty of variety if you know where to look.

When I was first getting into guns 15 years ago there were still earnest debates about AKs vs ARs, Glocks Vs 1911s, 9mm vs 40 vs 45. A lot of that has more or less been settled and the market has spoken. ARs won, Glock won, 9mm won. Even so there has been plenty of change leading to that. Looking back at the changes in the industry we have the explosion of CC and the development of compact guns, then micro 380s and now micro 9s. We have gucci glocks and everything that went into those which now inform the styling and feature set of most brand new polymer striker fired guns. There was the explosion of optics and now guns are designed no only with mounting them as an option but with optics being factored into the design of the gun itself. We have the emergence of things like ports, comps, stippling, and magwell flares as standard features from the manufacturer. In the past few years we've seen 2011s really gaining traction in the market.

>But waaaahhhh no one's making all metal framed pistols anymore (yes they are) and no one's making hammer fired guns anymore (yes they are) and no one's making guns in .40 anymore (okay boomer)

And that's just pistols. In the rifle world yes, it is dominated by ARs but again there is plenty of variety if you know where to look. There are piston ARs, there are SCARs and SCAR knock offs like the Bren 10. There's the BRN180, Springfield Armory makes a fucking bullpup. There are more varieties of AKs available right now than when I was first getting into guns, they're just more expensive now.

>But waaaahhhh everything is an AR (no it isn't) and everything takes Pmags (that's bad why?) and no one makes battle rifles with wood anymore (okay boomer)

>>64112250
It’s scratched up a bit if you look closely, like it was between two guns loosely in a case and got scratched to hell on a bumpy ride

>>64112348
It isn’t

>>64109456 (OP)
I'd say no. There's more weird stuff and options out there than we've ever had before. Even if you get tired of industry options, there are plenty of 3d printing projects you can start up.

>>64112523
>15 years ago there were still earnest debates about AKs vs ARs, Glocks Vs 1911s, 9mm vs 40 vs 45. A lot of that has more or less been settled and the market has spoken. ARs won, Glock won, 9mm won.
Those things "won" because the other options either became prohibitively expensive or disappeared entirely. Manufacturers naturally love shoveling cheap plastic crap onto the consumers and charging higher prices, because they can sell them as newer = better. The only things that have objectively improved since 15 years ago are the proliferation of affordable optics and silencers.

>>64112535
>It’s scratched up a bit
Yeah?

A lot of old guns are, especially ones that were thoroughly used, as is typical of older 1911s
How do outside scratches ultimately affect the performance?

>>64109456 (OP)
Absolutely not.
I got into guns right before everything went to shit cira 2006ish. There's way more options for "cool guy" shit. This was when you were a richfag for simply owning a SCAR and a plate carrier with hescos. Back when there were serious debates about the modern viability of bolt action milsurp in a "TEOTWAWKI" scenario. Im serious so much has changed in 20 years that its hard for you newfags to see how much higher the base is now. 20 years ago a Colt LE6920 was high end. 20 years ago you couldn't find a reddot worth owning besides a handful, and you for sure weren't putting a $150 one on anything but a 22. There's a ton more but that's just some of the improvements I threw together while on the shitter.

>>64112608
>charging higher prices,
ARs and AR parts are cheaper than ever

>>64112673
Yes any everything that's not an AR became more expensive. That's why I said the gun industry sells stuff on the principle that newer = better = more expensive. ARs aren't new.

I'm thinking of buying a desert eagle next year because all my 9mm handguns are boring. Do you guys have a dedicated 'fun' range gun?

>>64112720
one of those 300 win mag pistols, I forgot what they're called. Make sure you put a ss on it too. Bring it to an indoor range so you can show jamal when he mag dumps his glawk with the stendo into the ceiling.

>>64112720
I dedicate most of my purchases to fun range stuff, but the Desert Eagle is probably the most fun handgun I have. Which calibers were you interested in?

>>64109456 (OP)
I really don't care about the variety in the gun market because I'm out of my gunsoomer phase and no longer care about quirky guns to mag dump into dirt with. I only really care about reliable guns serious nigga guns(AR and Glock) these days, which is a little boring I suppose but it made me focus more on optimizing for performance and trying out new optics and buying more ammo and actually shooting. I don't really think the gun market is "worse" but I think that we have more or less reached peak smart people knowing what is good and terminal retards being terminal retards no matter what. Ammo prices are definitely worse. I really took 180 dollar boxes of 1k 556 for granted and I will never stop kicking myself for not taking advantage of that more

>>64112608
What a retarded take, 1911s are still widely available, .40 and .45 are still widely available. Lack of availability/increased price only applies to the ak/ar claim and ARs are hardly "cheap plastic crap"

>>64112848
50ae. I'm iffy about rimmed carts in a box magazine + 50ae is iconic. I'm probably going to buy it new straight from magnum research.

>>64112820
that 300winmag sbr goes into retarded territory I amn't interested in exploring. I'd love to watch someone else take it for a spin, from about 30 feet behind them.

>>64112608
Pissy because AKs lost huh?

>>64109456 (OP)
buy some coke and one of everything in the kel tec catalog
should spice things up

>>64109483
>Yes but it's for the better
For the manufacturer and the brand driven onions consumer like yourself

>>64112608
Those things got prohibitively expensive and more rare because they lost dummy. That's what that means, they were losers

>>64113034
Post your gun collection anon, let's see how cool and based it is.

>>64113009
>>64113076
The only "losers" are the consumers who now have fewer options due to things like sanctions and the industry race to the bottom, you console war faggots. You're fucking retarded if you thought ARs and 9mm Glocks were never not going to be the most popular options. The point is that now we have fewer alternatives that are competitively priced unless you consider a plastic 9mm not-a-glock with S&W or Ruger branding slapped on it an "alternative."

>>64113330
>he said, shrieking impotently into the abyss

>>64113330
>The consumers lost because the market favored shit that works and made it affordable and common
I don't see it, anon. I don't see the problem.

>>64113330
He was in the process of turning his life around

>>64113347
>the market favored shit that works and made it affordable and common
5.56 and 9mm were already affordable and common because of institutional use. The consumer firearms market is downstream from the global military and law enforcement markets. NATO standardized on 5.56 and 9mm, so therefore they will always be the cheapest things to shoot due to the only real competitors (Russia and China) getting sanctioned. When you cut off supply of cheaper alternatives, then naturally the more expensive thing is going to become more "popular." The consumer firearms market is not a free market at all. This is especially true for ARs since most of the alternatives are needlessly hampered by import restrictions from the ATF like 922r along with export restrictions from their countries of origin.

>>64113388
what's the cheaper alternative to 9mm you're upset about being buried by this practice?

>>64113397
Dude the point is that things like 380, 40, 45, etc. would be more affordable if there were no sanctions on ammo from Russia and China. More affordable ammo = more consumer demand for those guns. You're using ATF logic where they'll ban something that's popular, and then argue that there's no demand for the thing that they already banned since it's not in common use anymore. Saying "the market favored XYZ after we banned everything else" doesn't prove anything other than the fact that the consumers lost options.

>>64113436
>You're using ATF logic where they'll ban something that's popular
where did I say that?

>>64113388
Don’t bother reasoning with neo-fudds.

>>64109456 (OP)
I only buy old guns that come up at auction where kids sell off Grandpa's collection now. Maybe I'll replace my walther pps m2 with something else at some point, but meh.

>>64113470
>seeing benefits of AR/Glock and 9mm market = fudd
>crying at 1911s and .380 not being as theoretically cheap as the could be = not fudd
Do terms just not mean anything to you fucking zoomer retards? Post guns.

>>64113446
See >>64113347
>the market favored shit that works
The market reacted to other options going away due to actions from the government.

>>64113500
the govt kills more people than you do so I'll trust their intuition on the matter. In either event the customer ain't losing, we're more spoiled than ever.

>>64113542
>we're more spoiled than ever.
Spoiled for 9mm plastic crap and Turkshit?

>>64113587
When are you posting your collection?

>>64113587
There's a pretty wild spread of shit under the glass at the lgs (mine, anyways). To say that it's all 'plastic crap' and 'turkshit' is reductive, misleading, and just plain wrong.

>>64113587
If you actually think that's all that is available then you can just kill yourself

>>64113779
Ok only half of it is plastic crap and turkshit. The rest are Bond Arms derringers and overpriced ARs.

>>64113795
That isn't true either, anon.

>>64113795
is the plastic crap in the room with us now?

>>64113330
>The only "losers" are the consumers who now have fewer options due to things like sanctions and the industry race to the bottom

>The point is that now we have fewer alternatives that are competitively priced unless you consider a plastic 9mm not-a-glock with S&W or Ruger branding slapped on it an "alternative."

Genuinely curious, what would you like to see available today that you can't already get? Yes there are lots of Glock clones but that's not the entire market. Three separate companies came out with 5.7 pistols in the past few years, one of which has a rotating barrel design. CZ just released a brand new DA/SA gun this year. 2011s are available as cheap as $600 or so. Beretta released an updated version of the PX4 storm not that long ago, a gun with a DA/SA system and non-browning action. What do you feel you are being deprived of that all the Glock clones are robbing from you?

>>64113795
Skill issue on your part, sorry hon.

>>64109456 (OP)
Fucking gun ruined my summer by being such a piece of shit to the point I went and rage bought a g19 today.

>>64114038
How did it ruin your entire summer? Seems dramatic

>>64114062
I impulse bought it in June because 3 hunnit dollars and I wanted a spare 9mm to shoot the piss out of. I kept getting light strikes every other mag so I RMA'd it. Took like a week of calling and emailing to finally get a label, they had it for a few weeks and finally sent it back noting it was pretty fucking out of spec. It worked fine for a bit but the last few range visits it's been a collosal piece of shit even after tearing down and lubing everything. Today I couldn't get through a mag without 2 or 3 jams so I got picrel from sportsman's right after. I bet the dagger is just a psyop to get people to buy more Glocks. That or they count on poorfags never being able to shoot more than a couple boxes through one before putting it away in a closet for the rest of time

>>64114120
>Gen 3
Why? Gen 5 MOS is where its at.

>>64114134
I like the fingy grooves and it's more aesthetically pleasing. The front serrations and rounded edges on the gen 5 look weird to me, I want peak soulless brick gun. Also it was 120$ cheaper and I'm an faggot who shoots with irons on pistols

>>64114254
Absolutely based.

>>64114333
Any small upgrades you recommend? I swapped the truglo sights and they're nice as fuck. I'm thinking to swap the guide rod from the dagger and maybe upgrade the trigger but I want to make sure it's still as reliable as OEM. I want to spend more time slapping steel and less time dicking around with an unreliable piece of shit

>>64114254
Now this dude fucks

>>64114530
>Any small upgrades you recommend?
A GHOST inc. 3.5lb trigger connector coupled with a $0.25 polish job. You won't believe how much better the trigger gets for like $30 total.
>swap the guide rod from the dagger
I'd stick with the guide rod, I've used the same one mine came with a decade ago and I've shot the piss out of my glonk.

>>64112993
Just so you know, I only payed like $1,400 for mine brand new. It’s just black though, and that finish is going to look like crap as soon as you fire it a few times.

>>64109456 (OP)
We’re in the verge of a renaissance. Between the sbr ruling, frt ruling, suppressor tax going away, and maybe the nfa going away entirely we’re going to see a deluge of innovation

>>64115220
If the NFA never happened we'd be living in the golden age of dirt cheap full auto 9mm tube guns.

>>64115258
Semi auto 9mm tube guns could exist and be almost as cheap, but don't. Why is that?

>>64115270
the NFA

>>64115294
How does the NFA stop semi auto closed bolt tube guns?

>>64115315
no one wants a closed bolt 16" tube gun

>>64115322
They would if it's as cheap as you say it could be. That's not that different from a Hi Point Carbine

>>64115333
The BOM is like twice as long for a closed bolt tube gun compared to an open bolt. "almost as cheap" is a baseless claim. That's beside the point barrel length and full auto are two key features that the NFA categorically banned.

>>64115355
And yet we still have cheap semi auto 9mm carbines. So even without the NFA, the cheap subguns we would have would be more like Hi Point Carbines than Stens.

>>64115364
you can't make that claim when open bolt tube guns are categorically banned. the reason stens aren't common is because they're effectively banned.

>>64115372
The only case for Stens being more common is if they were surplussed intact. Perhaps tube guns were the cheapest way to make a subgun in the 40s but if it were still so then we would see modern semi auto tube guns.

>>64109456 (OP)
>let's take the worst generation of Glock where your thumb can't even reach the mag release, and make it even worse by making it out of soft stainless steel and even cheaper plastic!

PSA a shit.

>>64112419
They have weak forcing cones in the 70s and into 80s
I don't want to explain why because I'm tired and have been drinking, but it has to do with the gas ring, even after they reverted back on K frames

>>64109529
This is virtually identical to retards buying 25 different ARs. You're a gunsoomer.

>>64115934
Simply not true, and the metaphor is ill conceived as well. There many types of AR to fit different uses. ARs for retro larping, night vision, home defense, minimizing weight, long range, short range, medium range, LMG, suppressed shooting, competition shooting, hunting and so on.

>>64115431
>your thumb can't even reach the mag release
That's a plus. Too many glock mags are being dropped because of extended mag releases.

>>64113910
>what would you like to see available today that you can't already get?
Cheap ammo and imports.
>>64116102
Um dude you don't really need more than two or three ARs to reasonably meet all those goals lol

>>64115431
Do you know what patents are?

>>64115100
>guns get dirty when you shoot them
big ol' brain on you, huh?

>Break action revolvers are non existant
>there's a choice between 22 revolvers: pot metal single action or wildly overpriced scaled down full size
>long slide pistols are going extinct
>ruger still refuses to just make more no.1 in 45-70 despite the fact they could do a run of 20k and sell all of them with ease
>import bans keep getting worse
Yeah this market is boring as fuck.

If you're unable to find anything that interests you then that's a certifiable (you) issue, nothing else. Try being less autistic, see if that helps.

>>64116325
Where do you think you are?

>>64116312
Good. Buy American commie

>>64116722
>Saaar do the needful and buy the Sig Saaaaar

>>64115396
To support this point
Domestic manufacturing changed its methods and gave up a lot of the more conventional methods. Extruding or milling aluminum and molding plastic is cheaper than milling steel and wood, so newer products will use the cheaper methods.
It's easier and cheaper to make something like a SCAR or a G36 (SCAR is an aluminum extrusion with steel bits bolted to it, G36 is a plastic receiver with a steel trunnion bolted in) starting from scratch than an FAL or AK (all-steel construction for internals, involve forging steel, welding and/or precise millwork and fitment) in terms of adopting preexisting tooling and manufacturing methods (and finding workers who know how to use your new machinery) in the US currently.
You can find people to do the harder work of course, but at scale it's not worth it comparatively.

>>64117494
The original point wasn’t that if the NFA was suddenly repealed we’d have a bunch of newly manufactured Stens started in the big 25. The point was if the NFA never existed tubes guns would be a sizable portion of the market if they were allowed to exist. They were common up until they were banned in the 80’s. The current gun market evolved within a certain regulatory framework which outright bans open bolt tube guns. That’s not evidence that they wouldn’t be popular today, that’s just confirming that the Hughes Amendment was successful.

>>64118473
And my point was that manufacturing as a whole changed its course through the 20th century to the point it would no longer favor the STEN being a cost-effective design for cheap compared to something like a SCAR or an Extar EP9 today.
Aluminum and plastic became cheaper to produce during the 20th century, and volume of sales on MGs never really got to be prominent until the late 70s and lasted until the ban.
That is my entire point. Tech changed regardless of the NFA and FOPA, so the most common things on the market would be the cheapest to make, which would then have the largest quantity produced via sales volume (since cheap shit always sells better than gucci). This would mean that the "most common" MG would probably be a derivative of one of the 80s/90s "ghetto blasters" like the MAC-10 or TEC-9 because of their price to make vs. demand.
This is all speculation on a hypothetical though, we're probably both correct and incorrect at the same time for different reasons.

>>64118577
I don’t think there’s actually that big of a disagreement between us. I think our main contention is that I probably think the NFA (and FOPA/AWB) played a larger role in shaping the modern gun market than you do. It’s unfalsifiable in either direction at the end of the day.

I’m pretty lax with my definition of tube guns. I just mean a simple open bolt, cheap piece of shit. I could imagine a modern version being some aluminum extruded upper with a steel trunnion and polymer lower. You can still buy newly manufactured Tec 9 uppers for $350 and Mac 11 uppers for $280 and those are niche products without major economies of scale so it seems realistic some modern variant of that would be the go-to poorfag bullet hose.

>>64118667
The MGs made in OTL would still be made with no NFA, it had very little to do with them. Demand for MGs wasn't high in the 1920s and 30s outside of organized crime and enthusiasts, but a lot of it was due to the price being exorbitant back then too ($50 in 1920 vs $206 in 1980 vs $803 in 2025).
Even with just the NFA and no ban, people weren't buying MGs until $200 wasn't a massive buy-in anymore in the 80s, so I don't think the limiter was the NFA, because if it were there'd have been massive MG sales in the 20s among those who could afford it, which just didn't happen on the scale "no regulation" would imply.
I think most of the drive for respective designs is cost vs. sales volume, so like Armalite doing aluminum because that was what they were tooled for in the 50s, you'd see a LOT of HiPoint Carbine-tier quality SMGs that are made out of what amounts to a 3d-printed trigger housing and a square extrusion for a receiver (think B&T GHM9 form factor) on the market today.

>>64109517
Partially correct. You should buy old and odd guns,not a dozen flavors of 1911

No,
because the more guns (of any type new or older manufacture) are on the market, year after year after year, the more selection and variety for the gunsoomer.
I love shopping the previously owned firearms. You can find so much stuff of all types and vintages/ages, that is NIB unfired or barely used.
Plus people are always going bankrupt, can't pay their bills, die / an estate sale and you never know what people have in their safe, closet or underground nuclear bunker.

>>64109456 (OP)
India’s access to the internet is almost over. Enjoy it while you can.

>>64119483
Half of India isn't even on the internet yet. Strap in, because it's gonna get worse.

>>64109483
There’s an important second aspect to moore’s law that’s often overlooked which is that when performance, (or the user’s demand for performance) stagnates the competition shifts to fighting over lower prices, at least until the new performance game changer arrives.
This is how he predicted computers shrinking in price and growing in performance over the years, but really his observations can be applied to any product.