"Seething schizo" edition

Previous: >>24548341

/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC

Please limit excerpts to one post.
Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Violent shills, relentless shill-spammers, and grounds keeping prose, should be ignored and reported.
(And maybe double-space your WIPs to allow edits if you want 'em.)

Simple guides on writing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHdzv1NfZRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whPnobbck9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAKcbvioxFk

Thread theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNLJXb1ixbc

Didn't Houellebecq already do that with "Whatever"?

>>24561101
but highbrow litfic is always boring sitting-room dramas where rich layabouts whine and complain about how hard it is to be a rich layabout. in search of lost time, brideshead revisited, tess of the d'urbervilles...i could go on

>>24562993
too much american ruralism and victorian noble dramas has done irreparable damage

Aspiring writer here, tell me where I’m going wrong:

>First I start with crystallizing what I want to convey in my story (moral, humor, cyncism, propaganda etc)
>Then I think of vehicles (plot and characters) to convey the message
>Then I give life to the characters and put myself in all of their shoes and argue their perspective as personally as possible
>Then once the characters are fleshed out fully and independently, I can see where all their internal contradictions are and where there are gaps
>Then, I switch to the world, and define the world to bridge character gaps or challenges
>Now the world is complete, I go back and edit the characters and their arcs and the plot to fit in with the world

>>24563039
If it works for you, do it. Your method seems sound to me. Why would you think it's wrong?

>>24563063
It feels like cheating. If that’s all there is to this game then it’s trivial to get published and worm my way up to meet a real editor.

>>24563039
pretty much a pared down take on what I do
your components should intercommunicate. instead of it being
creative intent -> plot -> character -> world -> plot
it should be
creative intent -> plot <-> character <-> world <-> plot
it's why drafting is so important. you need the perspective of haven written the story to effectively refer back and forward

for me prose is a derivative of the whole that adapts to the needs of the moment. I don't think I ever plan the form or function of the prose outside of exercises to practice style. I kinda figure it out as I go and just go with what feels right

>>24563069
>end result oriented thinker
you're missing the whole process inbetween ideation and becoming a success. you still have to write
drop the embarrassed millionaire mentality. it won't do you any favors. focus on reading and writing

>haven
christ im turning retarded

>>24563079
You’re the one talking about money and success. Was I not clear when I told you that getting published is trivial? Do you think Hamlet strives for success? I’d really rather you not reply to me

>>24563093
???
what are you talking about?
is this our resident shitposter playing the personality of a new writer or something?
there's no reason a new writer should be setting their sightlines on getting published when odds are their writing is unreadable garbage
>Do you think Hamlet strives for success?
what the FUCK does this mean. this has to be the shitposter. completely unintelligible non-sequitur

>>24563069
Call it trivial only after you've succeeded. The world is drowning in content; it's nearly impossible to get noticed, and merit has very little to do with it.

>>24563072
I have been experimenting with a radical new idea

What do you think of
>Intent -> Character -> Plot/World

100% character driven. Define character personality and decision making upfront, then wrap plot and world together? I think plot/world is not really separable, but character/world is definitely separable.

>>24563104
Be silent, writers are speaking

>>24563120
the circumstances, life experiences, people and culture that surround a person effect them. it's not imperative that you acknowledge this and worry about it. you can write however you want
this isn't at all a radical thought. you can push it further and put character as the intent and write a non-didactic character examination
you should read some books

>>24563128
Frank Herbert was a small-town Catholic who created the most authentic islamofascist desert culture in sci-fi without ever living it. Paul Atreides works because Herbert studied and imagined, not because he was born on Arrakis. Maybe you should read Dune before lecturing others about reading books.

>>24563140
what are you talking about
how do you think this is related to what I said?
this
>the circumstances, life experiences, people and culture that surround a person effect them
is a comment on
>character/world is definitely separable
you should read some books. if not to develop your entry level ideas, then to work on your reading comprehension

>>24563154
Herbert wrote Paul and his family and the interactions between the other families first. Arrakis might as well be Hoth, with freezing storms and snow worms.

I think you’re not as smart as you think you are. Look at Romeo and Juliet- they are timeless pricelessly because they’re not tied necessarily to the plot/world.

>>24562980 (OP)
the citizen copies the citizen pastes

>>24563174
you are so fucking stupid holy shit
there is no imperative that you have to have any creative process of components informing other components by any set hierarchy. I said as much. I simply refuted that character/world is definitely separable
>Romeo and Juliet- they are timeless pricelessly because they’re not tied necessarily to the plot/world
what the fuck. I don't think I've ever seen such an inane understanding on such a widely understood work
you are illiterate. read more books

>>24563183
>ESL
>IMG_ phone poster
>reddit spacing
>sprinkles in publishing bait
>is retarded
it's obvious who is making these posts. have some restraint

>>24562980 (OP)
I need to write again. The first time I just "wronged!"

>>24563183
>I simply refuted that character/world is definitely separable
No you didn’t. I gave you a simple counter example of Romeo and Juliet being characters outside their world and you shit your pants and vomited all over yourself.

Dammit now I have to change my ending. I thought it was a cool idea to have the president be outed as a pedophile but now people will think I'm doing orange man bad

>>24563191
Why have we had such an influx of ESL schizos lately? Summer break?

Sorry for the delay in videos, I got sent to hospital because I held my shit for too long. Anyway, I thought I'd write my next piece on the lead up to that fateful hospital trip. I hope you enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6_JBqAsnvQ&t=1s&ab_channel=WithTheBailBondsman

>>24563753
>He lives

O' Captain, my Captain.

>>24563759
You never did doubt, did you? ;)

>>24563770
Someone said you gave up, I didn't believe. Will watch over my breakfast slop

>>24563753
Very grim desu, exactly as expected

>>24563753
lmao how long did you hold it?

>>24563942
Let's just say I'll never be the same again.

>>24563897
Probably should've warned you not to eat food with it, my bad anon

>>24563183
except actually romeo and juliet 100% depend on the setting to work. it's all tied together. you think i want to read some forbiddin love affair of a bantu woman and zulu man? sum>parts

>>24564125
> Bantu woman and Zulu man
To be fair, that could be fuckin kino if they did it right, the problem is that they wouldn't do it right. The other problem is that the way Shakespeare writes is what makes his shit so good, but watching supposed Zulus talk in Shakespearean English would just be so bizarre. Anyway, I know you were just shit posting, but yeah, that's my take.

>>24564125
everyone sane thinks this
every once in awhile you see some tool make a reimagining of romeo and juliett in a different setting and it's always garbage. the characters are intrinsically imbued with the culture of the time and the plot hinges on the characters
sum = the parts. fuck with the parts and you fuck it all up

The importance of visual elements must not be understated, even in the case of a nonvisual medium like a book.
Too often you see half-assed shitty covers, but this is a mistake.

It's not a matter of "baby want picture book," it's a matter of immediate impression. We say "don't judge a book by its cover," but the cover is an enormous part of how readers decide to read YOUR book.

I would go so far as to argue that besides your cover art, you should have illustrations of your principal characters. Even if AIslop, that's fine. AIslop can be a workable placeholder.

>>24563753
You have this weirdly schizoid charm, anon. Do you huff glue or something?

I fucked up. I got addicted to writing fanfiction. I don't have to beg an agent to publish me, I just upload whatever the fuck I want and I get instant dopamine from all the kudos and views. There's no pressure, no rules. Fanfic is easy to write. I have written 25k words in the past 2 weeks. Meanwhile I haven't touched my latest novel WIP in 6 months. I don't have to do multiple drafts because what I write the first time is already cream of the crop compared to the average fic writer, all I do is a basic line edit and up it goes.

It's hard to stay motivated to write when the gatekeeper is dead set on never letting me in. Meanwhile I go into a bookstore and see all the trash they are publishing and just get angry and bitter. It feels pointless.

>>24564609
You should write because you enjoy it, so if you enjoy writing fanfiction more, why are you so determined to write an original novel? For the prestige? Be real, anon, you aren't getting published, and even those who do, the vast majority die in obscurity with a few hundred copies sold at most
Being published isn't even a mark of prestige anymore in the first place. Everyone knows the industry is gay. People care about how many readers you have and how much money you're making, not whether a publisher picked you up

>>24564657
For narcissistic vanity.

>>24564735
>For narcissistic vanity.
even if that's the case:
>Everyone knows the industry is gay. People care about how many readers you have and how much money you're making, not whether a publisher picked you up
nobody gives a shit if you're published if you aren't even selling copies. if you're going to appeal to the vapid mindset of the modern man, learn how to make money with your writing

me? I'm going to write what I like

The past few days my output has been atriocious. Seems like I'm losing steam the closer I get to wrapping things up. Yesterday it was a 300-word deficit. The day before it was 900. But hey, I made up for all of them and today's minimum has been fulfilled on top of that, so I'm still on track to be done soon.

>>24564609
>cream of the crop compared to the average fic writer
So, garbage

>>24564370
I shamelessly judge books by their covers, which is ironic because I tend to reserve judgement of people based on their outward appearance

>>24563753
I'm not watching that

>>24563197
>tfw can't write anything but wrongs

>>24563039
If all of that is in prewriting then you are spending far too much time prewriting i-m-o.
t. pantser

>>24558285
>dude it's only 5-10% LLM lol
You are so full of shit, slopper

>>24564609
Cool. Not you understand why so many prefer to go into webnovels and just make money from patreon.

Is this a good introduction?
>In a land time has long since forgotten, there lived the two races: men, and beast. Whom, according to historical record, had lived peaceably since St. Christopher himself had brought down the literal Proverbial rod, smiting those disbelievers in the union between man, livestock, and fanged-livestock similar. Since that time, relations had stagnated, and the divide between Church and barnyard had grown to such a degree that an irrelevant nation (and product of another forced union) somewhere off to the East (or wherever) felt it so necessary as to send an emissary to bring peace to another irrelevant nation (and product of yet another historical forced union), as to do something by which they profit. This man and his hero-cuckolding adventures are unimportant. What is important is me, and my great adventures, which dare triumph in historicity over his, putting to rest doubts that may be had, and birthing questions which might be answered, or questions, that may remain a mystery.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGsKzZtRwxw

>>24566701
tl;dr

>>24566707
SUMMARIZED:
>In ... beast. Whom ... similar. Since ... profit. This ... unimportant. What ... mystery.
Im writing this to make fun of someone

>>24566716
Then you'll need to be a little punchier.

>>24563039
Here's what you should be doing:
>want to tell a story about _______.
>who is the most interesting perspective to tell this story? That's your main character.
>what are the conflicts this person has within this story?
>how does this person change at the end of the story, or what do they achieve? If they dont change or accomplish anything, why not?
>what other characters, settings, and ideas can I add to this story to achieve this end?

>>24566720
It gets to the point later on. Or something.

>>24558272
I would describe it as a spiritual (Christian) war novel.
My life has been a bit like Forrest Gump’s, I’ve drifted through countless places and situations, met celebrities and important people, all while remaining mostly oblivious and innocent to just how absurd it all was.
I've been fortunate to do things that people pay high prices to do and experience.
However I am a nobody. Off the grid, unknown, so I wanted to document them somehow in writing.
Have the story documented somehow to leave something behind.

https://rentry.co/dro5ysbt

Does anyone want to read my 1000-word chapter part? The context is that he's just arrived at Cambridge and has made friends with a hyper-literate group of rich kids. It's supposed to be everything he's ever wanted. It's not a critique of capitalism but anti-intellectualism, so they have to be wicked verbose.

Fanks

>>24567007
>Does anyone want to read my
Where...where do you think you are, anon?

Ive proudly never even read a page of a book yet I post here regularly

>>24567007
Okay, I'm actually glad no one read this. I've recently started penning and scanning my writing, and so many little errors come up in the scan, it's not even funny. Luckily, I've corrected them now, so there's no evidence

>>24567431
>https://rentry.co/dro5ysbt
I red it but I am not good at feedbakh.

>>24567484
Well, did you finish it? If you did, then that's enough for me, I suppose. Thank you for engaging with me anyway.

>>24567527
Keep writing Anogne, stay positive and productive!

>>24562980 (OP)
I have a lot of random weird thoughts about snippets of stories that are pretty good but their existence in the absence of the actual story is pretty retarded.
>Spin on the werewolf story that's just an analogy with struggling with gooning or addictions in general
>Van Helsing wants revenge for his dead parents but is so deep into the hunt that life passed by him (he's old af)
>Darker fantasy version of a misogynistic custom that does exist IRL in the 3rd world that propels into a cautionary tale on misandry and radical feminism
Risky
>A political thriller type coup by Dorians essentially discovered by a good cop but too late to stop it
Yep they invaded early on which you can notice on a reread or rewatch
>Biological AI experiment gone wrong
>Time travel is fake and gay subplot
Also in space
>Degrowthers in space genocide mankind for contaminating the only other planet that had life (slugs at best) using a fake alien invasion
>space nerds ditch massive welfare state space stations knowing that their departure would kill millions, freedom loving MC doesn't have the stomach to them into slavery
>Space refugees abusing compassion
But also some stuff merged together so the fantasy part is technically part of the sci-fi timeline
I think it's actually pretty retarded to mix the two, it might even be retarded to try and tie the various sections within each setting into two large stories. It's probably best to just churn out different stories. I just don't see how you can tie it all together. Imagine ASOIAF but the various parts are their own story. W5Ks, story about the Wall and beyond, Dany story, etc. It'd be easier to finish. Plus it's probably jarring for the story to go from a political intrigue in a medieval setting to one where you're uncovering a fake alien race. I hated the 100 when it did this. Is there a story where this went well?

That hack a few months ago unironically killed this general.

>>24567741
Where did everyone go tho?

>>24567741
low poster count general with a live-in shitposter
tiring in engaging in discussion when it always ends up high jacked

>>24564153
the language depends on the setting it was created in. this is why setting is so important and sounds awkward when a story is taken outside of its culture to some bumfuck random place in time/space/culture where it doesn't belong! but a completely fresh story from the bantu/zulu perspective could be great, just.. completely separate from the context of romeo and juliet. but now that i brought it up, does anyone know of any great fiction stories set in africa completely devoid of any colonial perspectives? asking seriously.

>>24567940
It's a shame because we used to bounce ideas and excerpts around like there was no tomorrow. Yeah, there was shitposting and such, but there was an energy that just doesn't seem to exist anymore. Sucks. I guess I didn't realise how fragile this little ecosystem really was.

>>24566701
it sounds extremely generic. try telling the reader something important instead of
>this is a story about nondescript things that happened, read further to find out.

>>24567431
i read it. it feels a bit dull. what is the actual story about?

>>24567988
/wg/ used to be really good
I miss it. people here (or people who used to be here more likely) set me down the path of writing

I am nearly done with my book but I think its too weird to get published. Let me know what you think of my chances.
>A group of new twelve of apostles journey with the Third Coming of Jesus Christ to destroy Satan after he returns to Paradise Earth following his 1000 year imprisonment in hell by YHWH.

>>24568010
It's about a poor inner city boy(white) who makes it into a top university, but then can't afford to stay any longer and has to go to a shit one. Anyway, a bunch of shit happens to him and it's basically about persevering and not sacrificing your morals for money or anything... It's a bit like the fountainhead, I guess. Thank you for reading.

>>24568057
> inner city boy(white)
>Lanie—now Cory—
What is this supposed to mean? Even if there's some sex change thing going on here, I don't see why you would have to mention the previous identity right off the bat. You are putting in two names here which can be confusing.

As for the rest of it, the dialogue doesn't sound realistic. You are trying too hard to create this "intellectual' scene, but this is just not how things work at Cambridge or anywhere else.

You should focus on your actual story. Do you have one?

>but then can't afford to stay any longer
To me, this doesn't sound like the actual story, more like the setting. I think you can dig deeper and find more than that.

>>24567988
I can only speak for myself but I was one of the rare anons who gave long-form critiques to tons of genre fic stuff posted here over the past several years, but I only use /wng/ now. It's as >>24567940 said, the resident /wg/ troll who hijacks every topic just makes me not want to post in this thread. As soon as there was an alternative I took it

>>24568172
>resident /wg/ troll
trolling is a banneable offense, so just report him when he appears

>>24566725
You read too many books about how to write.

>>24567940
>high jacked
https://youtu.be/WeQ-aeJd-Kk?si=qkMT8itYGH9naqCg

>>24568199
Great idea. That would afford us a whole fifteen minutes of peace.

>>24568199
It's kind of cute you think this would work

>>24568205
This, 100%. Who gives a fuck about all those questions? None of it matters as long as what you're reading is interesting. That guy sounds like some dweeb from r/pubtips.

>>24568217
Those types are easy to spot when they present stuff like having a "main character" as a given

>>24568141
In the last scene, they give him a nickname, and it's kind of a big deal, so I was just re-hitting that beat because there was a perspective change between then and now, so people might get muddled.

> inner city boy(white)
>What is this supposed to mean?
One of the themes is just how ignorant people are about the poor white class and how they're just totally forgotten about in a lot of ways.

>The dialogue doesn't sound realistic
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm going for; it's supposed to be a bit too good to be true. Eh, even if people don't speak like that, they could if they were comfortable enough, and I think anyone who's ever read Shelley has wanted someone to quote him to and from. Then again, if it's so unrealistic that it's taking you out of the moment, maybe I ought to change it.

>To me, this doesn't sound like the actual story, more like the setting. I think you can dig deeper and find more than that.
Okay, well, it's just one narrative beat; the whole story is too expansive to prattle off about for a whole post and bore everyone to death.

Thanks for the words anon

>>24567007
Let me just as chatgpt how I feel about this

>>24568172
It was so weird returning after a couple months only to find /wg/ literally barren. It was good while it lasted lads.

I'm working on a conceit for a science fiction story. It's set in the future (obviously) and society has had multiple crises with AI getting out of hand and essentially ruining their civilization, because AI was still not really sapient, it was just developing into more and more advanced LLMs which were limited, and also lacked any sort of consciousness.

The solution was that they created "Familiars," which essentially shares the physical brain of a normal person via an implant in their brain stem. The AI sort of cohabitates with the human, using elements of their brain chemistry to perform functions that can't be computerized properly. They're much better at computation, disciplined action and clock speed than humans, but they rely on the human brain to actually experience qualia. Everyone gets one of these from the State at birth, and 80% of the economy is now just people renting these AI Familiars out to corporations or the state. Because of safeguards built into the system, the host is dominant, and even if the Familiar were to somehow become dangerous, it is at least always anchored to the host, so ripping the implant out or killing the host will delete the AI.

My question is essentially, would it be a better complication if these Familiars subtly revolted from what amounts to slavery, or if the effect of having a machine using part of your brain to experience quality is indistinguishable from schizophrenia, and people/AIs start going nuts? Has this been done before?

>>24568349
The premise is very cool but yeah your problem now is what the central conflict becomes with it. I personally wouldn’t use either of the ideas at the end of your post because I think they cheapen the concept you’ve come up with. Maybe let it sit longer so you can come up with something more compelling and original. I’ll think on this and reply again if I have any ideas to suggest.

>>24568349
>>24568374
What if there’s some other consequence like an inversion of reality where the AI gains control by overloading the energy of a certain part of the host’s brain? So hosts are lulled into this sleep-like dream state, almost like a predatory illusory state enacted by the AI. Somehow where the host personality is still apparent from an outside perspective but the AI basically runs the show. Then one of the AI becomes a main protagonist when it encounters another ‘sleeper’ in the outside world. And maybe you could take it somewhere further from there.

>>24568388
Then you can also have sequences where the host is just existing unknowingly in this permanent dream world.

>>24568349
>essentially shares the physical brain of a normal person via an implant in their brain stem.
It's a strange perspective for you to take, because the conventional thing is to say humans are getting these implants (which I have to have to assume is a common trope) which augment their intelligence.

>>24568215
Why not try it? You have nothing to lose.

how do you guys come up with names for characters

>>24568556
It's always just a play on a name I've heard before, with unique twists.

>>24568556
I put in a placeholder name and then got stuck with it because nothing else felt right once I got used to it

Does /lit/ still do that monthly writing challenge? I haven’t seen the associated thread in some time. If I recall correctly the challenges took place at the beginning of every month.

>>24568556
theres websites with name generators
most sound shit but you can just pick the good ones

Before the final few chapters, I have one of my two main characters go mad and turn into the antagonist. After the pivotal moment that tips him from an anti-hero and well meaning but fuck-up ally that gets someone close to him killed, in the chapter he withdraws into himself. Most of the chapter is internal monologue with the occasional hint like dialogue from undescribed persons separating paragraphs implying he is doing something in the middle of his soliloquy. But the internal monologue comes on a bit thick and seems to me like an exposition dump and summary of the alluded mysteries leading up to that point.

Would it be better for me to keep that as is, or change the chapter to be entirely without his inner monologue and merely describe his actions, as if the reader is locked out of his mind from that point?

>>24568556
I look up name meanings and pick one that fits the character. Sometimes I look up two words in different languages and put them together and that makes the characters last name.

Should I Continue.

>>24568556
I ask the character what their name is

>>24569120
yes, i like it. but dont' use the word p*nis

>MC (ruler) chose saving the bunch of low born people that he has to protect (duty) over the saving his woman.
>Later one he found that some of these people raped her (she didn't tell him).
>He executed those people and hates low born people yet continues to work towards his goal (stop the war so the people didn't die).

That way I wanted to show him as a stoic and tragic person.
Is this plot cringe? Does rape mention repulse you? If yes, what can effectively replace it be and keep the plot same?

>>24569242
You could make it so that the woman threatens to break off their engagement because he's never home, and he chooses to keep working to stop the war anyway. A "ruler" whose woman is raped is just the kek of the kingdom ever after, and turns the story into a joke.

>>24569242
It's not the rape that's cringeworthy, it's the blatant political satire. It's pretty on the nose in a way that turns even me off, and I likely agree with its views.

This is just a random draft. I've been sratching down ideas for a novel/webfiction for the better part of half a year now, but at the moment it's just a google doc with random bits and pieces, perhaps the shape of a story.
I randomly decided to try writing a scene. Thoughts? Any critique welcome

>>24568349
>>24568374
>>24568388
This is good thinking, and I could write this very subtly, it might even be a feature-not-a-bug situation in which part of the purpose of these things is to curate reality for the host, and this can get to the point where the host is essentially living in a fantasy world and the AI is essentially living his life for him.

>>24568400
Intentional, having it just be an implant that makes you smarter or a system of control seemed dumb, in the former case why have an AI, in the latter case why not just put the AI in a parrot?

Having it be a way to make the normally alien and nonhuman AI assume an anthromorphic mental shape seemed cool, and it also gave an interesting route to have a "utopia" in the classic sense of everyone just owning slaves.

Thoughts?

In the crumbling halls of a certain palace
Reigns a king of a certain type
And in his court to be admitted,
Fare better the boys, soon to be ripe.

Oh! This kingdom once revered,
Across all lands of God’s green Earth
Left to abandon, decayed
And soon maggots of it took hold.

The man of letters sits at his desk
His hand at work translating the Bible
He finds not one mistake in it
Except for the treatment of the faggots.

“Here we study men, the very greatest
You must have taken a wrong turn,
As if a woman could ever understand,
The depth of Patroclus yearn.”

(Miverva seeing from above the desecration of her domain
And Venus with the race she once favored, disappointing,
Together united to provide their favorite maiden patronage.)

My pen they made a dagger
My voice a spear became
In the palace halls it resonated
With good evil superate!

But is he a pederast or a catamite?
Well, yours truly is not an expert
On the social hierarchies of fruitflies.

>>24565675
And today it's not even midday yet I've already fulfilled my quota. We're so back

>>24568556
fantasynamegenerators.com
call me a hack, I don't care

>>24562980 (OP)
>keep it simple and basic
meaning and metaphor are emergent properties. good art never attempts to depict something directly; people just happen to see it in the art
>style matters most
there is only a certain amount of plot structures, character archetypes eg. a revenge story, a becoming story, a mystery, a romance, a leader, a hero, a villain etc. what is most interesting is the way these more general structures are presented to the reader
>Faulkner said that novelists are failed poets
make art
> structure comes from editing
write a ton of scenes when you are inspired, then select the ones that fit together. scenes are like lego pieces, and they can be arranged in many ways to form different stories.
>dont get discouraged
most of what you write will be shit, but it doesn't matter what you think. authors work with editors and publishers, often bestselling novels and the like are collaborative efforts. many famous authors and books weren't created until the people involved were old, and had written thousands of stories nobody will ever see. one good thing about reading and writing is that humans do it, and humans are mostly all alike.

>>24569813
i like this bro keep it up

i think some stanzas don't flow that great, im talking about the meter and rhythm and shit

Has anyone else written a story or fanfiction out of spite because how much better they wished the original story was? I did something like that for the Star Wars prequels when I was younger.

>Fantasy slop slips off
>Now the only posts with any replies are sci-fi slop
Can't make this shit up

>doesn't capitlize Black when reffering to the race
have fun not getting published, bigot

>>24569755
What's the novel about?

>>24570122
Jorge Luis Borges didn't like how Martin Fierro ended so he wrote his own version of the ending.

>>24570171
Jar Jar Binks erotica

>>24569755
This feels like a very long-winded way of saying "You just need to have patience and practice so you can improve at magic." I understand it's trying to be an "old wise master gives his pupil advice" kind of scene but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of substance in what he's saying.

>>24569755
most of it is fine but that big initial paragraph about the larger mysteries shouldn't be necessary. it raises a red flag about "philosophizing" that will make people immediately skeptical about whatever follows

>>24563039
If a world, loose plot, and characters were all it took to become an author, every D&D player would be Tolkien.

Try writing 10k words of prose and have it feel authentic and flow naturally. Try writing dialogue that doesn't feel like you're just vomiting information out. Try writing character arcs that span dozens of chapters without becoming stale or overly complex.

Making the world and the inhabitants isn't the challenge with writing. Writing is the challenge with writing.

>>24569080
>internal monologue comes on a bit thick and seems to me like an exposition dump and summary
If it feels that way to you, the author, how do you think it would feel to readers?

Plot is hard. I want to write about what i think the near future will look like (spoiler i think we're all fucked) which i can envision very clearly, but i'm having hard time deciding plot and characters. Even if my first book doesn't get published or read by anyone, i want it to be good for my own sake. Guess i'll just keep writing and see what i find.

>>24570587
This a first book? I'll warn you that if you're anything like me, it takes a lot of rough to find diamonds. I've written 400k words and I still consider myself pretty novice. I suppose that's because I just vomited on the page to get it over with, but in my current story, I'm slow going.

Write it no matter what to see what you find, exactly. Just don't get too attached, as every rework gets a little better as a rule of thumb. Don't write one sentence and revise it 50 times. If you have to rewrite that section when you're further along, so be it.

>>24570597
Yeh it's what i'm telling myself keep writing and the path will become clearer, i think my problem with characters is my main protagonist, i have a good idea of the types of people that exist in my world, the issue is i just feel like i've picked the default option.

And when it comes to plot i've decided the overall motivations of the secondary character but i'm struggling with the whys and the hows. The last thing i want to fall into writing is some kind of chosen one destiny story when in this world my protagonist would necessarily be just another poor unfortunate in a world largely reduced to poor unfortunates.

So i've been focusing on disconnected scenes, knowing i'll have to rewrite them when to plot and characters become final. Scenes i can imagine very clearly in my mind, dialogue too, it's just plot and characters /protagonists that are hard for me.

>>24570633
Just to make you feel better, I've written three books, here's the first paragraph I've ever genuinely written.

Just a warning, it's bad...

>>24570672
I thank God each day that my first writing is gone to the winds because it was on google+

>>24570672
It's not the worst thing i've read desu. Here's my opening paragraphs i wrote a few weeks ago. I've been writing other scenes but this is first attempt at an opening.

> The cooling air felt good on Avery's face as he put his face, eyes closed, up to the gap, the door cracked open only slightly. An alcohol-laced murmur seeped up the dimly lit corridor, a fractured stream of slurred syllables and jagged laughter ricocheting off graffiti scrawled prefabricated walls. Doors, identical in their filth and decay, stood closed, narrowly spaced on either side, a procession of lives reduced to their barest essentials: a bed, a desk, an access point, all neatly contained within eight by eight feet of rented existence.
> Through the half-inch crack of the door, Avery peered down the dimly lit filth strewn corridor, spying shadows moving clumsily at its far end. The cool outside air slipped through the gap across Avery's face, a brief reprieve from the stale, damp air inside, the corridor’s light catching the edge of his profile, carving his features into fleeting relief.
> Rough edges of laughter and fragmented shouts echoed closer, two drunks swaying in loose synchronisation, staggered steps echoing off the corridor’s stained walls. One paused, words spilling from him in venomous slurs before the shadow of a fist connected, a wet dull thud, echoing with grim finality as the recipient slumped to the floor. He watched as the silhouette of the victor, breathing hard and off balance, rifled through the slumped man’s pockets, head turning fervently looking around. Avery eased the door shut, the latch catching with a whisper, the cool air abating, returning to the stale air inside he knew well.

>>24570744
Brother, you know the struggle.

>>24570672
Oh man, are we posting our cringe from years gone by? I'll jump in with my early humiliation. This is over ten years old by now, and I must have been real young.

>>24570771
Brave choice of character, the super intelligent retard.

>>24570771
>Pffft
Thanks for sharing, dude. I'll say something positive: Creatively, not the worst premise, just need to write to the level that people genuinely believe you the author are a genius. Very tough goal posts, but gives you a prime target to hit!

>>24570786
>>24570803
Yeah, I must have been about 16 at the time. Clearly, this was not the literary boom I thought it was going to be.

>>24570093
Thank you nigga, means a lot. I agree I'm always not very god with cadence, but I tried improving:

In the crumbling halls of a certain palace
Reigns a king of a certain type
And in his court to be admitted,
Fare better boys, soon to be ripe.

Oh! This kingdom once revered,
Across all lands of God’s green Earth
It’s Spring of Knowledge disappeared
And is now home only to maggots.

The man of letters sits at his desk
As his hand translates the Bible
He finds not one mistake in it
Save the mistreatment of the faggots.

“Here we study men, the very greatest
You must’ve taken a wrong turn,
Could a woman ever understand,
The depth and width of Patroclus yearn.”

Venus watches from above,
The beloved race she once favored.
Minerva, seeing her home desecrated
Grants her faithful maiden patronage.

My pen she made a dagger
My voice a spear became
In the palace halls it resonated
With good evil superate!

But is he a pederast, or a catamite?
Well, yours truly is not an expert
On the social hierarchies of fruitflies.

>>24570122
I'm basically doing this with Legend of the Galactic Heroes desu, if only to cut out the abominable English translation middleman.

>>24568834
yes just ctrl+f 'lwc' first fri/sat of next month

>>24570587
Remember that future fiction helps shape the future rather than predicting it

>writing about a writer so people will immediately assume I'm self-inserting as the protagonist
>add a sane and rational character with a name similar to mine as a red herring self-insert
>near the end of the book inserting myself, the writer, into the story
anti-self-insert cowards, I permit you to tremble in my wake.

>>24571361
>considering self insert
>ever

im inserting

>>24571568
coward

>>24562980 (OP)
Ok here's the plot of my book: In 12,011 A.D., three ambassadorial vessels for the Church in Rome II, the Solari Covenant, the Ecclesium Sanctus, and the Ordo Nox Aeterna, and one Protestant sect, the Stellan Wayfarers, slowly realize they're in the midst of a brewing war between the Star-Sacrum Imperium (basically the resurrected Holy Roman Empire,) and Neo-Byzantium, two empires with claims to being the true successors of Rome. They each race to stop the oncoming war. Meanwhile, in the Star-Sacrum Imperium, the threat of Protestantism is growing..

>>24571744
Meanwhile, in Neo-Byzantium, a noble man in the Basileus's court by the name of Kyrilos starts a splinter court to try to ease tensions with the Star-Sacrum Imperium..
NEW
[6:48 PM]
Meanwhile, in the Far Systems, the Fomalhauti tribes have been united..by a figure they call God-Emperor Anuk-Re...(basically inspired by Sargon of Akkad..)
We start aboard the Solari Covenant's embassy-vessel, the Apollo-In-Christ..our main character, Captain Khaliyb Otum, the Heretic Navigator..

>>24571746
sorry, was copied from a discord message i sent. my bad. my god, that looks unprofessional..

>>24571750
You fucked up big time bro, now you'll never get the job

>I can only write manic pixie dream girl love interests

>>24571753
Wish fulfillment is an important element of compelling fiction.

>>24571312
ty!

I've posted my work here before and we've fought about it. I called you guys losers that don't actually talk to writers IRL or know what the current lit environment is like. So I'm curious how you morons explain the budding success of writers like Rosalind Margulies? Google her name and find her website which links to a ton of her PUBLISHED work.

She isn't grammatical at all. She doesn't use dialogue tags. She isn't some legend like Cormac McCarthy. And she's getting published regularly in real shit.

I'm sure you'll say her work is shit and you wouldn't want to write like her. Boohoo. Keep writing like wannabe James Joyces with half his IQ and lmk when you actually get something so much as published in an online magazine.

For anyone reading this that thinks this thread is a good place to get criticism, heed the words here. It's not. You'll be led astray by losers that don't have any connection to other writers and work actually being published, no matter how much they pretend otherwise.

>>24571753
if you truly like it there must be something in it worth appreciating
and if so, there will be someone out there thankful that you wrote it

>>24571818
All the people that actually wrote fucked off to /wng/ are are having the time of their lives. This is a containment thread for dead-enders and burnouts.

>>24571767
Only if you're making slop.

>>24571818
>and we've fought about it
Translation: "I posted trash and got upset when I got called out for it."

>gongtard hours

>>24571818
Hi Rosalind. Do you have tasteful erotic photos like the other girl who shills her work here?

>>24571753
>>24571753
write what you love

>>24571818
We haven't fought about anything you weird freak. You posted some trash that got ignored then threw a tantrum.

>>24571818
I'm not a writer but outside looking in ten of you combined wouldn't amount to the IQ of one of the people commenting here

you brainies are too smart I don't deserve to be here.. I think you should come with me before it gets worse

>>24571818
I wanna see your work! Maybe these brainies are faggots!

>>24572084
I must have ADHD or something I only read the part about you bashing the thread, not the brainies being faggots

>>24571818
>Google her name and find her website
No, I don't think I will

>>24571818
Fuck you, I will now post work just to spite you.

https://rentry.co/b3hcxuqd

Do your worst, but know that I'm happy with it

>>24571818
This is the stupidest shit I’ve read on here. Who gives a fuck how much someone gets published, there are tons of bad books, movies, games, etc funded not because they’re objectively good but because the general normie has awful taste. Getting published doesn’t mean anything. IT MEANS NOTHING.

how do extrinsic validators cope with criticism?
shouldn't they mold themselves to adapt to whoever judged them last?
>>24571818
stop valuing publishing and become a pseud

I value having readers

>>24570137
What are you talking about, shitkisser?

Just finished mapping out the central plot for one of the main characters in my Les Misérables-esque novel. Cried a little bit. It's a major breakthrough. Can't believe I, of all people, was given this vision. Gonna try and do it justice. Hope to make a significant dent soon.

I'm seriously contemplating telling my son to give up writing. I don't want him to suffer through the soul-crushing nightmare that is writing and trying to get published.

Watched the trailer for Eclipsium, now I don't know if I should turn my experimental novel into a lovecraftian mystery genreslop.

>>24573022
Unless you're 80 or something, your son can probably afford to wait a decade or so for traditional publishing to become basically irrelevant, except as a distribution network for physical copies of already successful books.

>>24572949
Whatever happened to Rose, I wonder.

>>24573085
Then he'll have to worry about paying for an editor, a cover, and marketing. Writing is quickly becoming a rich man's hobby if you ever want to do anything beyond short stories or writing stuff that stays on your computer and no one ever sees.

How do I get over the fact what I'm writing might be extremely cringe?
I mean, it's fantasy YA with werewolves, vampires and romance (pls don't laugh at me) so it's bound to be somewhat cringe, but for some reason I can't write past couple of chapters cause I find it really, really cringy with some dumb scene not making sense. :/
It's mostly just for myself and maybe upload it later to Wattpad or Inkitt, but still... I don't know how to get over the cringe feeling especially since I'm the one writing it.

>>24571188
The heofens huened with the pael bleu liht; ond I saw, withut, the songbrids flit.
But min heort, it brinned by the niht; ond I wept ond wept with its wiht.

>>24573147
>Writing is quickly becoming a rich man's hobby if you ever want to do anything beyond short stories or writing stuff that stays on your computer and no one ever sees.
what are you even talking about lol
writing has never been more accessible than it is now. you can post to fanfiction sites or places like royalroad and have enormous audiences even with shitty editing.
writing was gatekept 100x as hard even just two decades ago.

>>24571744
Might I know which discord group you write in?

>>24573147
it has literally never been easier to get into writing and start making money from it
you just refuse to acknowledge web fiction as "le real writing"

>>24573333
Is using archaic words today in poetry really that bad?

Should I call the character that has the POV the MC?

>>24573147
>editor
Not strictly needed, also writers should ideally learn things like restructuring, cutting out flab and sharpening prose and dialogue by themselves.
>cover
Even if you're staunchly opposed to using AI, artists and graphic designers on the Internet are a dime a dozen.
>marketing
Depending on your genre, you can usually find websites and communities to post your work as an indie author. It isn't easy to break out, but even in traditional publishing a lot of books barely sell a handful of copies.

>>24573556
Not if it's a POV that's mainly there to witness other characters' actions like Watson for Sherlock Holmes.

>>24573285
Kill the part of you that cringes. You must be 100% convinced about what you wrote.

>>24573147
>Writing is quickly becoming a rich man's hobby
read A Room of One's Own by Woolf

>>24572949
I am intrigued simply because of your use of a gif from the sublime Rose.

>>24571188

To me it seems pretty good, but I'd work more on making the lines flow very well, make every word choice correct. Try out many different versions of even one line. Not that I know what I'm doing, really, but my poems improve a lot when I do that I think.

>>24573285
Who cares. I can assure you whatever you're writing isn't as cringe as what I wrote. Enjoy the process, embrace the mockery, and take pride in the insults. Nobody honestly cares.

>>24574754
what are you writing now, wing?

>>24574791
another historical fiction. cant seem to get the setting right without outright stating it. too many people have too little knowledge of 10th century medieval europe. i've been needing to embellish so many facts, names, ideas, even the timeline itself to connect to readers.

>>24574804
that kind of thing sounds like it needs a lot of research

>>24573530
If you enjoy it, then use it. But dont' expect it to ever get published.

>>24574845
fag

>>24574509
>Female """authors"""

>>24572164
>post writing out of spite
sounds healthy

>>24575706
No one reads excerpts anymore anyway

>>24575711
>reply to excerpt
>it's our local retard or a newfag
>either way they become a woman scorned and shit up the thread for the rest of the day
not worth the effort

>>24575723
Then why post to begin with? May as well just let the thread die in that case

I'm blanking right now, what's a word which means something like "nonstop forward momentum"

>>24575768
inexorable?
if you mean literal momentum I dont think there's a single word for that

>>24575776
I was thinking of something like "dogged," but now that I remembered that word I can use a thesaurus for it lol. Thanks tho, my bad for not being clearer

>>24575784
Why not catted

>>24575824
They're too idle and sleepy.

Does writing develop ones schizophrenia or DID?

>>24562980 (OP)
Any tips for writing romance as a virgin? I write mostly science fiction and fantasy, but I've been told that my romance sub plots are awkward and clunky. Some of the common issues I've identified from the feedback I've gotten are as follows.

>Characters fall in love/have sex way too quickly. The latter is especially difficult when I try writing characters that sleep around.
>Flirting is mostly based off of characters having a shared interest/life experience. I have relatively little "dirty talk" in my dialog, and when I do it comes off as two dudes making sex jokes at each other except one of them has tits.
>Relationships are relatively drama free once they're established. I don't have any interest in adding cheating/love triangle subplots, so I don't include them. The worst thing that will happen to a couple is they'll get separated or one will think the other is dead for a period of time.
>Relationships are generally very wholesome. I can't think of a time I've written two characters that were toxic/unhealthily co-dependent on each other.
>Female characters come off as Manic Pixie Dream Girls or have too many traits that I personally find attractive, so my friends call me out for writing wish fulfillment.
And last but not least
>As I have never had sex, I am generally very bad at writing sex scenes/ moments of physical intimacy, so I tend to avoid them in my more recent writing.

I try to bare all of these criticisms in mind as I continue to write, but I'm worried that I'm missing some kind of secret sauce that will make my writing fall flat without that lived experience.
>inb4 have sex
I'm working on it.

hit 'em with a cicatrix, cicatrix, cicatrix

such a fun word to say

What is a throughline and how does it differ from an arc how do I know what my throughline(s) are do they relate to theme where do I get my theme also I just pooped my pants

>>24575929
your vision of romance will be based on fantasies
this is not a bad thing
embrace unreality and give yourself to your fantasies. imagine having a dialogue with the woman of your dreams. imagine yourself as the initiator. imagine them as them hitting on you. imagine the two of you in the honeymoon phase, going on dates and being way too eager, and seeing grand things in mundane gestures and shared experiences. imagine the two of you in a long term relationship, years of significance behind the small rituals of your daily life, the natural, subconscious way you incorporate each other into your routines and plans
develop and deepen your understanding of love and romance through deepening your own delusions. it's the most soulful way as delusions are the cornerstone and heart of your romantic ideals
>wish fulfillment
romantic idealism is based. it's only an issue if it warps the story and compromises other story elements for indulgences sake. normies throw around buzzwords, don't mind it

I get told my writing feels gory or pornographic even when I'm not writing gore or porn. I suspect it's because I write in an intimate manner, with a fine grain focus to details. could try that. zoom into the small moments: reaching across the bed to her to grab her hand, and awkwardly getting lost in her fingers and laughing together about it; letting the quiet lapses in conversation lie, not out of anxiety or awkwardness, but because you're both still dwelling in the other's words; explore quiet intimacy through minute actions and the meaning behind them

>>24575993
>throughline
the connection that runs throughout the entire story that connects elements of the story. a throughline is a concept used to observe the integrity of the whole by measuring whether the logical basis of whatever story telling element (theme, atmosphere, setting, characterization, etc) is sound through out
>arc
the change of a character or plot over time.
>theme
the unifying intent that informs all aspects of the story

I don't think writers ever design throughlines. it's a term that comes up in secondary observation by readers or critics. a good throughline is derived from coherent and logical writing

>>24575993
How about you use google, you fuckling moron?

I'm working on a first draft and would appreciate feedback on the quality of my prose. This is part of the opening. I'm kind of just making it up as I go along, which has kept me engaged in my own story.

A basic premise in my plot is that magic can only be used through previously enchanted objects, and it is extremely tedious to do those enchantments. Within the magical community, there is a tradition of people trying to find a way to enact magic instantaneously. The protagonist's friend got involved with these people, died after meeting them and casting instantaneous magic, and she goes on a quest to get revenge pretty much.

>>24575996
Thanks anon, this was honestly more encouraging advice than I expected.

>>24576284
Seems fine enough.

>>24574754
This is pretty good