2026 will save us edition

previous >>16707942

aeiou

Banana

please give me a (you) if you're been here since the beginning. I want to know if sfg dies it died with those who stuck by it

AYY LMAO

>>16710796
there's just no competition

notable launches in june

>5 June - Guowang, a Chinese competitor of Starlink
>19 June - spy sat on Angara
>23 June - Kuiper on Atlas V
>23 June - Falcon 9 with dozens of small sats including a Varda re-entry capsule
>25 June - Axiom-4 to the ISS
>28 June - final flight of the Japanese H-IIA rocket
>29 June - New Shepard tourist dildo

notable launches scheduled for july

>2 July - Gilmour Space's Eris rocket
>3 July - Progress cargo to the ISS
>14 July - Tianzhou cargo to the Chinese station
>16 July - Indian GLSV launching a joint American/Indian earth obs sat
>26 July - Vega C out of Kourou
>31 July - Crew 11 to the ISS

Remember musk's melty?

Not content with blowing up the Masseys test site, Elon intends to blow up the launch mounts and kill hundreds of SpaceX employees and contractors.

> SpaceX can’t just use the Booster Quick Disconnect (BQD) since its interface is different from the Ship Quick Disconnect (SQD). Teams would likely have to take the BQD apart and run separate hoses to the SQD. Either these would connect manually to the Ship or SpaceX uses the extra SQD plate sitting in Sanchez, or alternatively, take the one from the Masseys cryogenic proof station.

Everyone is going to die.

China has 1-2 years at best before their total collapse. Just like how the collapse of the USSR and the end of the cold war drastically reduced the budget for big projects, the coming collapse of China will do the same for spaceflight. We are never getting off this rock. Trump is already cutting projects like crazy. With China gone, expect Artemis III , all future lunar/Mars to be on the chopping block too

>>16710816
bait

Hives of giant venomous Mars Bees discovered. Here's a terrified Mars Guy for scale.

>>16710818
please subscribe <3
every bit counts

>Congratulations anon, (You) have been selected as Chief Mission Designer at 4ASS.
>Your annual budget is $150m
>You've also got the optimistic Starship launch cost of $150/kg along with it's payload dimensions for any mission/s
How will you advance the knowledge and exploration of the universe for all frogkind?

>>16710810
Think of the data they'll collect

>>16710807
Sad. The list of flags there was pretty based until that jeet went.

I stopped posting as much since kuroba is dying. sorry bros

>>16710816
It won't be that soon, but their population collapse is genuinely inevitable unless they start growing babies in vats by the tens of millions.
That one guy who gene-modded those fetuses could be a national hero but got blacklisted instead.

>>16710815
Just use buckets

>>16710868
Western pops are collapsing too unless you're counting imported australopitheci as people

>>16710788 (OP)
Why does it fucking matter if anyone goes to space? All I will ever see is a webm video of it anyway. Just cut NASA completely and give billionaire's a tax break. Fucking loser basedience 'tists.

>>16710816
Isn't it enough that you flood your gay offtopic bait in one board? Get the fuck out of here.

>>16710788 (OP)
Why does it fucking matter if anyone goes to space? All I will ever see is a webm video of it anyway. Just cut NASA completely and give billionaire's a tax break. Fucking loser baasedience 'tists.

>>16710788 (OP)
>Why does it fucking matter if anyone goes to space? All I will ever see is a webm video of it anyway. Just cut NASA completely and give billionaire's a tax break. Fucking loser śö0yience 'tists.

>>16710788 (OP)
Why does it fucking matter if anyone goes to space? All I will ever see is a webm video of it anyway. Just cut NASA completely and give billionaire's a tax break. Fucking loser śöyience 'tists.

>[Deleted]

>>16710926
I feel insulted by word filters and I refuse to let them molest my post

>>16710827
Shit out Starlinks to all heavenly bodies in the Solar System

>>16710924
nigger

>25 flights btw ;)

>>16710924
don't go then fag

>>16710929
your post has already been molested

>>16710816
According to zeihan china has been 1-2 years from collapse for the past 30 years

@16710929
>doesn't know about the sitewide sѹ filter
gb2r tourist

>>16710796
>>16710799
brilliant observation

>>16710868
Does the population collapse matter? If the next generation is more consumerist (they are) and their factories continue to automate or outsource then they'll be fine. Collapse is a strong word.

>>16710974
Nah, this time China is collapsing for real

>>16710827
>$150m
Spend three F9 flights launching a lunar orbiter, lander, and return vehicle (all Dragon derived for speed and cost) with the original handmade Apollo heat shield filled by Mexican labor instead of qualified scientists. Mostly automate the flight and only recruit non astronauts that publicly don't mind dying for the attempt. Elon would do this if he actually liked space.

>>16710810
Doubt anyone will be injured if it explodes again but the damage to the launch pad and the company would be immense. Elon seems to pushing sloppiness and poor risk management due to some sense of urgency, perhaps a desire for a big win to overshadow recent setbacks (not just at SpaceX).

>>16711011
Zeihan has been saying it's for real this time for the past 29 years

>>16711014
He's doubling down hard on the whole "move fast and break things" and the whole "hardware rich" thing. It's his ego pushing him.

The Dawn of European Reusability.

>>16711041
Oh wow, just another decade to go before Europe has a F9 clone.

>>16711018
Zeihan has been saying it since 2005, so that's 20 years, not 30. Also, he has said that he expect China to collapse in 2020, which is pretty spot on, considering how badly China has declined since 2020. For such a large country, being off by a handful of years is still remarkable prediction

>>16711019
Really wish he would calm down and focus on one thing, preferably SpaceX. Let Tesla go, let twitter go, let the brain cyborg shit go, let the tunnel digger go. Let it all go. I know some think it's all part of a big plan for life on Mars but it looks more like out of control ADHD that his wealth has enabled to have no bounds. Having the design for a TBM on Mars doesn't do any good if you don't get there in the first place.

>>16711045
>he expect China to collapse in 2020, which is pretty spot on
lol
lmao

>>16711045
You're down playing his message quite a bit. Any doom scenario said enough times over a long enough period will eventually end up becoming at least somewhat true.

>>16711049
>>16711048
Nah, you're coping. China is done, as are most future lunar/Mars missions for the next two decades. Also, it's not just Zeihan, there's dozens of experts who all think that China will collapse soon.

>>16711051
lol
lmao

>>16711051
>China collapsing
dude, it's not happening, give it up

>>16711054
>>16711056
https://cepa.org/article/communist-china-a-long-march-to-collapse/

>>16711058
Quantity of weeks to wait: two more

>>16711056
>>16711058
>China's going to collapse any day now!
This meme is playing into their hands. Assume China's going to keep plugging along and counter them and their ambitions accordingly.

>>16711059
It's telling that the argument that you wumaos can come up with is "two more weeks" spam
>>16711060
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-economy-shrinking-xi-jinping-debt-real-estate-american-world-2024-1

>>16711058
Nice source dipshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC7uvGz_hfM

>>16711064

>>16711063
https://www.economist.com/china/2024/09/30/worries-of-a-soviet-style-collapse-keep-xi-jinping-up-at-night

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/07/04/why-chinese-banks-are-now-vanishing

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2004/05/13/the-great-fall-of-china

>>16711066
lmao you self own by including a link from 2004

>>16711062
Yet another "two more weeks".

>>16711071
>>16711067
Cope. You will see, China won't even exist by 2030

>>16711051
Are you the /k/ faggot who popped in a couple days ago to ask how much people like China here? Have you posted about spaceflight at all beyond vague references to a Mars landing or are you just here to have off topic political discussions?

>>16711058
CEPA is one of the nonprofit wings of the CIA you bumbling fucking retard. If you're so stupid you'll post CIA propaganda then there's no conversation to have. Kill yourself

>/k/ posters
>cia propaganda
same thing

ugh

>>16711077
Just because it's propaganda, doesn't mean that it's false.
>>16711076
I'm not that guy

>>16711082
If you're going to spam CIA talking points and international politics then go start a thread on /pol/ or /k/. This is the spaceflight general on the science board.

>>16711085
You really think that the chinese collapse won't affect spaceflight?

>>16711088
You posted CIA propaganda. I don't give a shit what you think or say. Go to a different board.

>>16711092
>CIA CIA CIA

Brown detected

>>16710810
why would it take months to repair masseys? the damage looked very minor, mainly just the stand itself. why would this take more than a month to fix?

>>16711047
He's now talking about using Neuralink to reanimate dead bodies. Someone needs to do an intervention on him and do it soon.

>>16711088
Not imminent enough even in your fever dreams to be relevant discussion
Bring it up when it is about to actually happen, not 10 years before the fact

>>16711099
Demo, clearing, rebuild (including large amounts of concrete). They already tried to rush it and a crane fell over.

>>16710592
There was an impact off the coast of Papua New Guinea in circa 2014, and it is argued whether or not it was an interstellar object. Many researchers including U.S. Space Command believe it was. NASA has doubts on it, but hasn’t ruled it out.
I
It would be a difficult search, but there have been proposals to recover fragments of CNEOS 2014-01-08 off of the sea floor for analysis.

>>16711104
wow china really has won. now even spacex cant do shit. just a matter of time before a crewed launch fails and people die, then spacex will go to shit completely. china is the only country that can actually build stuff nowadays

i wonder what went wrong. did elons detour into politics cause talent atrophy at his companies?

>>16711103
1-2 years before the cracks start to show. Full collapse by 2030

>>16711062
>"A slight nudge and the whole house of cards will collapse on itself!"

How much politinigs last since the explosion on a scale of 1-10?

>>16711104
>rebuild (including large amounts of concrete).
Literally a non issue

>>16711102
Thiel got to him and Elon is easily socially manipulated for some reason.
>give up on the Mars plan (apocalypse fetish)
>AI and humanoid robots instead of people
>live forever in a super computer
These people are insane. They want a hierarchy of a trillion copies of themselves to span the solar system. They want to manipulate machines made from plasma deep inside the sun forming black holes and doing experiments to learn how to break planck locks. They want to become a supercomputer that uses space-time to do its computation, expanding forever at the speed of light. They want to become gods.
In reality he will die of AIDS in five years and all he'll leave behind is a more powerful surveillance state. That will be all he amounts to. Pathetic.

Don't tell Elon about this. He'll give it a try.

>>16711107
China is on the brink of their usual civil war+mass famine combos that they go though every century. They are done for

>>16711112
Grim

>>16711114
2 more weeks

>>16711108
ok so lets continue this in 4 years then

>>16711112
that sounds pretty cool actually

>>16711112
Why now? Thiel and Musk go back about a quarter of a century. Why is Peter messing with Elon's brain now?
>>16711111
Lots of things are uncomplicated but still have long time lines to accomplish due to the serial nature of what needs to be fixed before other parts can be repaired.

This is now my second favorite Bad Idea Rocket Fuel.

My favorite remains Mono Spin Hydrogen. A tank of liquid Hydrogen with all the spins aligned. If one single atom randomly flips, the entire tank goes boom.

>>16711120
In this scenario you're either dead or 10,000 shaved down quantum copies of your consciousness are programming under the threat of torture your current form can't comprehend

>>16711113
>no chemicals
>its a fucking chemical
???????????

>>16711121
Thiel has been ramping up lately. My theory is that he is literally secretly dying and wants to finish whatever sick end he envisions, and he isn't secretive about his plan basically being the biblical apocalypse. He has the look of guys on HIV medication. Don't ask why I have intimate knowledge of that world

>>16711113
That made for a decent movie back in the 90s.

>>16711113
>>16711122
>know a little about… ROCKET SCIENCE!
>it’s le difficult but you get EPIC ENERGY
You know this isn’t a serious proposal because this millennial can’t help but quirk chungus XD up his “paper”

>>16711125
While it wouldn't surprise me if he's got some bug and is trying to get a bunch done before his time is up, searching for his name on Google News turns up all kinds of ankle biting stories by all the most annoying people, so I'm guessing there's something else going on well below the surface that we're not seeing.

>>16711120
>>16711123
Specifically quantum copies so that it's actually your current consciousness being tortured

>>16711133
you have created a very elaborate fantasy about what Thiel supposedly wants to do

>>16711132
Well if you spent 20 seconds reading a bunch of headlines I guess I'll defer to your conclusion

if elon wants to unlock immortality through mind uploading then just come talk to me

>>16711136
I've stolen all of it from an autistic Finnish sci-fi author
>>16711139
This post captures the spirit of about 1/3rd of the /sci/ posts outside this general

>uploading for immortality
>not to become godlike
Think bigger

>>16711122
>Hexanitrogen
Needs moar nitrogen.

>>16711111
Not discussing whether or not something is an issue, but whether or not it will take less than a month.

>>16711137
Glibness aside, surveying the landscape for the large picture does sometimes yield useful information. And sometimes not. But your other post is completely lacking in evidence so I don't know why you're being a dick about people stating opinions when you're stating evidenceless opinions too. The reality is none of us know what's going on with Thiel and if it has anything to do with Musk's recent behavior. We're stuck doing our own version of Kremlinology.

>>16711142
https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-work-nitrotetrazole-oxides
https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-work-azidoazide-azides-more-or-less

With those, we're cooking.

>>16711145
Anyone with half a brain knows they are related, my friend

>>16711141
I would immediately send the species back to the stone age, fly away at 0.99...c, and spend a few hundred thousand years becoming the entire Andromeda galaxy. Every star a neuron, every thought passing slower than a human civilization

>>16711111
wasted quints

>>16711141
>>16711139
Shut up schizos

>>16711140
concepts like that appear in many other books too
good trilogy though, goes pretty far into fantasy territory with the tech being so advanced

>>16711047
That's just how he is. He's said something akin to that himself, when there's a lot of stuff going bad, he's very stressed out, but then if everything is going smoothly, he can't calm down either and just finds some new thing to start stressing about. I assume it must be some weird childhood trauma, but all these projects always seem to be coupled with some doomsday scenario that he has to come in and fix (we must go to Mars so that there's a backup civilization, we must move to solar power so that we don't all die, need to buy Twitter to make sure free speech doesn't go away or something, he founds an AI company on two separate occasions to make sure it doesn't turn into some evil Skynet thing, and now the politics sidequest because he needs to fix politics before the woke AI communists follow people to the Mars utopia)

As a kid he was a scifi geek with an abusive dad, who similarly worries about paranoid, outlandish apocalypse scenarios. And now he's worrying about outlandish scifi apocalypse scenarios but he's also the richest guy on Earth. He's just unable to relax, hell, that's how SpaceX started too. Like "well, now I'm rich as fuck (when he had 20 million), but what do I do now? Let's start building space rockets, how hard can it be?" In a way that was another thing where he felt like he can just come in and fix things, he looked at how expensive it was to build rockets at that time and just thought like I'm sure we must be able to make them for way less, let's just use this 3000 dollar car door mechanism as a latch

>>16711148
>I would immediately send the species back to the stone age, fly away at 0.99...c
This has been what I imagine a AGI will do if given half a chance, as opposed to the Skynet treatment. It would simply take less energy to leave than it would to completely scour humanity off the Earth.

https://x.com/StarbaseTX/status/1939689967732642124

> When hexanitrogen does break down, it releases double the energy per unit mass of HMX – currently the most powerful chemical explosive known.

Don't tell me You need more.

>>16711157
the show will be...explosive!

>>16711156
It would, more likely than not, assess leaving humanity alone as a threat to itself. From a probabilistic standpoint it’s too much of a risk. Humans would see an escaping sentience trying to run out into the void as a threat, either to ourselves or other possible life in the universe. We crashed Cassini into saturn out of reluctance to accidentally scatter life somewhere we didn’t want it. We sure as hell wouldn’t want to let a Frankenstein creation run away into the wild now would we?
p.s. this is a very popsoi topic, for at the moment humanity can’t even get a measly Starship to work properly.

Mars mattress

ai nitrogen mattress

>>16711158
>Don't tell me You need more
There's always room for more nitrogen.

>>16711157
Ballistic projectiles that blow up in-flight are launching from Starbase TX?!

>>16711157
Is 37 even ready?

>>16711155

NB: The other google translation of the original is the keeper. Where the poster randomly insists your family is going to die.

>>16711164

You ain't kidding:

> The researchers are now seeking to synthesise even larger molecules based on the principles they have developed. ‘We believe N10 is feasible,’ says Schreiner. ‘Whether it can actually be made is a technical question, but we’re going to give it a good shot.’

And then everybody died. The End.

>>16711157
The event will be delayed, no FAA launch license

>>16711158
>Ever heard of C4? Get ready for N6!

>>16711167

>>16711168
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Diazidocarbamoyl-5-azidotetrazole
14 Nitrogen with 2 pesky Carbon atoms. I'm sure they're working on getting rid of at least one of the carbons and adding more nitrogen.

357kcal/mole.

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1939693886152085804

https://arstechnica.com/space/2025/06/the-second-launch-of-new-glenn-will-aim-for-mars/
>Publicly, the company has said this second launch will take place no earlier than August 15. This is now off the table. One source told Ars that a mid- to late-September launch date was "realistic," but another person said late October or November was more likely.
>Blue Origin has been mum about the payload that will fly on this rocket, but multiple people have told Ars that the current plan is to launch NASA's ESCAPADE mission on the second launch of New Glenn. This mission encompasses a pair of small spacecraft that will be sent to Mars to study the red planet's magnetosphere.

>>16711176
>Based upon information received by Ars, the launch manifest could look something like this:
> New Glenn 2: ESCAPADE (Fall 2025)
> New Glenn 3: Firefly's Elytra orbital transfer vehicle (End of 2025, early 2026)
> New Glenn 4: Blue Moon MK1 lander (first half of 2026)
> New Glenn 5: First batch of 49 Amazon Project Kuiper satellites (mid-2026)

>>16711176
>erm Q4 2025 trust the plan
Berger’s law

>25 launches
remember BO was suppoesd to have 8 this year

>>16711177
Wasn’t blue moon mk1 “solidly” supposed to be Spring of this year? Fuck you Jeff, you’re retarded. Maybe stop focusing on useless new shepard carnival rides and whip your team into shape?

>>16711180
Kek and they only just recently popped into Jeff’s office and said
>uhhh hey boss, yeah looks like that’s not happening.
Bezos, and maybe even Limp too, have a huge disconnect between upper management and middle management

>>16711177
is there any chance of Artemis III w/ Blue Moon by 2027-2028?

>>16711185
>Artemis
It's dead, let it go.

>>16711185
Fuuuck no. Even in its current dire straights, Starship offers a much more realistic timeline for preparedness to land astronauts on the Moon in that time frame. Blue Origin are going to need until 2029 or 2030

>>16711187
2 & 3 are still happening though aren't they? Even though subsequent missions are scrapped.

Neuralink won.
Saarshit and Tesla lost.

>>16711189
Are they really? There's no gateway for that anemic rocket to reach, so the best it can do is a flyby of the moon.

>>16711189
It's sort of all up in the air right now. Jared was pushing to just get II and III out of the way because the hardware was already fabricated, or at the very least all the tooling was ready to get it all buttoned up.
Then there was the falling out of Musk and the Don, and Jared's nomination was rescinded. Musk had his infamous pedo melty and Trump suggested he wanted to go back and add funding back for EUS and further SLS manifests. Oh and Trump also threatened to pull Elon's contracts which would jeopardize anything slated to get to orbit via Falcon Heavy.
The whole thing is retarded and basically no one is going to know the long-term plan until Trump appoints a new administrator (supposedly not happening any time soon, six months at the very least) so now we just wait and see what happens to all the hardware

Oh, Clear was streaming from launch site.

>>16711176
>Barring a major setback, it now appears highly likely that Blue Origin will beat SpaceX in landing a vehicle on the lunar surface.
Sugarcoating feasibility?

Zhugue-3

>>16711203
The sugarcoating here is
>barring a major [blue origin] setback
which is basically guaranteed lol

>>16711205
Fuck off with your chinkshit rockets

>>16711194
>and Trump suggested he wanted to go back and add funding back for EUS and further SLS manifest

This never happened and your overall timeline is out of order.

>>16711176
>>16711203
SpaceX has already put landers on the Moon.

>>16711214
They haven’t demonstrated the ability to do it in-house

>>16711214
Don't see it on the list. Are they under a different classification?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lunar_probes

>>16711185
Zero, it's pretty much guaranteed that Artemis III is set post 2030. Starship is nowhere near ready, let alone Starship HLS, let alone the 20 refueling flights that it needs. There's no chance that Blue Moon will be ready any time soon with the sheer amount of delays that BO is known for. Even without any delays, the plan is for Blue Moon to debut by 2030 and in Artemis V. Hell, there's a good chance that Blue Moon straight up gets cancelled or heavily defunded, now that anything past Artemis III is up in the air. Blue Moon also needs orbital refueling, something that is still heavily underdeveloped, to the point where even SpaceX is struggling with it.
>>16711188
Delusional, it's looking likely that Starship is looking at mid 2030s for a lunar landing. I don't care how cheap Starship is, or how you can launch 10 Starships a day, if you need 20 refueling flights per lunar landing, you fucked up somewhere.

>>16711113
>Don't tell Elon about this
He's the one who invented it

All 3 HLS options were dogshit

>>16711152
I liked that the super advanced post humans used their technology to play Minecraft in real life inside Saturn. It's what I would do.

>>16711216
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ghost_Mission_1

>>16711217
>let alone the 20 refueling flights that it needs

Not exactly helping your credibility.

>>16711113
Popular science rags have discovered so many amazing rocket fuels that always have some fatal flaw.

>>16711225
Starship's final payload will be a lot lower than originally stated, since the final version will have to pack in a lot of extra mass to help it survive re-entry. We're already seeing with V2, they stripped a little bit too much mass off the top. I'm expecting that the final version of Starship will have a payload to LEO somewhere between FH than the Saturn V. Every hit to the payload, increases the number of refueling flights needed.

>>16711224
So, not a SpaceX lander.

>>16711122
>If one single atom randomly flips, the entire tank goes boom
Quantum Zeno effect solves this

>>16711157
We should all go

>>16711221
the alpaca would have been ready soonest. it had a negative mass amrgin, but so does starship so lets call it even.

>>16711127
> a decent movie
> Keanu as a physics genius
Ermmm

>>16711231
Why are some people still in denial over the 17 (that's the confirmed number) tankers?

any idea how far away the tank farm can be? do they have to be really close to the launch site or can they put them far away to reduce the chances of getting destroyed in an accident?

>>16711164
>There's always room for more nitrogen.

>>16711217
why the fuck did NASA bet on starship in 2022? There were 2 other options that seemed way more conservative and NASA-ey to me anyways.

>>16711277
Needs a bit more.

>>16711157
They're not even trying to sugarcoat this anymore

>>16711280
Because other choices were so terrible that Starship ended being the only possible choice.
You had shit like alpaca being so fat that it couldn't take off.

>>16711252
He's a machinist. Pic related are the physicist geniuses, along with Freeman and Reeves.

>>16711280
Nah the other two options were unironically worse. Starship was ambitious for being a big rocket but other than that, SX had a good track record of success. Dynetics a leidos company would have taken way too long to make ALPACA, which already had glaring issues on the drafting table. National Team 1.0 had good legacy players but was spearheaded by a noob company already showing signs of mismanagement, and like ALPACA the design wasn’t sustainable.
Starship was the cheapest, offered more potential, and appeared to have the most solid realistic team behind it. Still the case to this day. If the decision to downselect HLS was pushed to today it would still be SpaceX

>>16711255
18 tankers? That seems like a lot of risk. Having to wait for 19 tankers will take a while, even with “rapid” reusability. I’m just not sure you want to place your trust in an architecture that requires 20 individual tanker flights. It will take a while for all 30 tankers to fuel it up!

>spacex has a few minor setbacks
>suddenly all the backstabbers come out

https://www.newsweek.com/iran-ban-starlink-elon-musk-spies-arrests-2092435
>Iran's parliament has voted to ban Elon Musk's Starlink satellite internet service, marking a sharp escalation in its crackdown on outside influence after U.S. and Israeli strikes. Users of the SpaceX-operated satellite service now face penalties of fines, flogging, or up to two years in prison if they are caught, according to state media.

>>16711300
Considering they have achieved nothing this year I wouldn't call it a minor setbacks.

>>16711231
V2 doubled the payload of V1

>>16711315
2x0 is still 0

>>16711280
>There were 2 other options

The other options were worse, had slower timelines (even now) and cost double.

The only reason Blue's HLS is a thing is because they were embarrassed so badly that they actually tried.

https://x.com/CJHandmer/status/1939732939031679218

handmer with a new look

spacekino coming through

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m08TxIsFTRI

>>16711321
So anyone here actually have good outlook on this? Musk and Handmer meme solar like crazy. I’m not sure if it’s because they’re just too invested and a bit delusional (just trying to sell a product) or if they actually are reading the market effectively and know that energy consumption will indeed skyrocket and that solar is going to fit the bill.
Will nuclear not grow and cover the energy demands? Too much red tape? Is solar going to be able to do it?

>>16711321
As long as the "AI" meme bubble continues, we're going to need nuclear.

>>16711345
Problem for all these california investors is that you can’t just go and invest in nuclear. You can do that with solar. Which is why they are pushing it. They can turn a profit on it, sway the govt to invest in solar… it’s all retarded

>>16711342
The price is dropping fast and the rate of solar growth is always massively downplayed.

>>16711357
Now factor in storage

>>16711342
US installed 50 GW of Solar power in 2024. Even adjusted with a low capacity factor of 1/5 it's more actual generation than when they added +10 nuclear reactor units in the best years.
They are predicting that the cost of solar will continue to fall and that will in turn generate lots of new demand for the new cheap energy. aka Jevons paradox.

>>16711361
seems like it's all good to me

>>16711355
They're trying. Microsoft is partnering in the reopening of the Three Mile Island plant and while not connected to a specific tech company, Michigan's retired Palisades nuclear plant is being restarted. It appears that restarting shuttered nuclear plants is faster than building new, which sounds obvious but renewing already decayed systems can get more complex than starting over from scratch.

>>16711345
the problem with nuclear is the time to build even if regulations are cut
gas generators have been bought out up to 5 years out
the only real easily scalable thing is solar + batteries but for some reason (probably entrenched interests in coal/oil etc) the trump admin is really going hard after renewables
not only removing subsidies, but putting up some weird new regulations basically trying to hamstring renewables
its fucking retarded

I wonder how they will portray Tau Ceti.

https://youtu.be/3khiH5M4LLo

>>16711042
I wish to be as enthusiastic as you.

>Gliese 367b has an estimated Mean density of 10.2±1.3 g/cm3
Holy fucking shit, is that even physically plausible? I often see people giving a lot of flak any time someone brings up a terrestrial planet with a mean density higher than Earth's as being "abnormal" or unrealistic in some way.

>>16711384
It's just a super-Mercury

>>16711362
This is entirely due to retarded boomers strangling nuclear energy, if they hadn't over regulated it we'd already be almost entirely off fossil fuels like france.

>>16711393
Notice that this is just electricity produciton, which is only a fraction of energy consumption. They leave out other energy consumption because its 100% hydrocarbon based and impossible to change.
The only hope is Handmer's machine to make hydrocarbons from the air. Otherwise we are actually just screwed with no way out.

The move to nuclear power is futile, all sources of fissile material which can be extracted will be virtually depleted by the end of this century decades before the last deposits of coal dry up at the current rate of yearly consumption.

>>16711372
>going hard after renewables
We don't want the grid destabilised for your fads yuvm

>>16711411
Thorium and/or breeders you spazmo

>>16711411
The hail mary for humanity is to find a way to cheaply produce muons (or negative pions, which almost immediately decay to the former). Catalyze fusion at room temperature.

Has Elon figured out yet that his rockets are being sabotaged?

>>16711342
They're totally correct by the numbers, but US foreign policy is based around controlling access to energy, and this would disrupt that in such a profound way I'm afraid they'll kill him.
>>16711345
Mind backing that statement up with some numbers?

>>16711357
>Still believing in solar.

>>16711361
>storage
Are you not aware of what Handmer does for a living?

>>16711418
His own autistic meltdowns are doing the real self-sabotaging

>>16711289
That movie was BRILLIANT: Use electricity to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, then burn them together to produce electricity!

>>16711422
You responded to a graph with a boomer comic you fucking faggot. We're on the science board.

>>16711414
Where we are going we don't need grids. It's already underfunded and near impossible to grow due to NIMBYism and permitting problems.

>>16711372
And the problem with sun and wind is that they're fair weather systems that can and will fail you when you least need them to fail.

>>16711427
>SH-SHUT UP!!!

>>16711419
>>16711422
This isn’t about solar vs nuclear on paper, this is about the fact that the world is shaping up to have 5, 6, 7, 8ish major companies that are going to have energy demands explode on entire orders of magnitude and simply “building more nuclear reactors” isn’t going to work when you factor in the politicking of the energy industry of the US. Bubble or not, fad or here to stay, companies are going to chase AI models and information processing/storage regardless of how you feel about it

>>16711410
no, other energy consumption can largely be transformed into renewables as well, especially with something like handmer is talking about (storing hydrocarbons for long term energy storage during winters instead of using hydrogen like the whitepaper below)

https://www.tesla.com/master-plan-part-3

>>16711414
grid-forming batteries will make the grid much more stable than it is now

>>16711427
/sfg/ being hosted on /sci/ is inconsequential to anything and everything; though yes I agree with your sentiment

>>16711432
>simply “building more nuclear reactors” isn’t going to work
Well, sun and wind sure as fuck isn't going to cover the exploding need for power.

>>16711430
Read nigger
https://caseyhandmer.wordpress.com/2023/01/09/terraform-industries-whitepaper-2-0/
At least bother to learn what you're arguing about. Intermittent power due to night time or weather is not a problem with this system.

>>16711423
Grift for subsidies in CA iirc

>>16711430
you are not worth engaging with

>>16711429
Not if you move your solar power production to space and just transmit the energy to earth
>>16711435
It will if the “invisible hand” is forced that way by lobbying and retarded politicians (100% guarantee)

>>16711435
Why can't solar cover it? Energy is a fungible commodity, and the cost of solar is coming down continuously.

>>16711429
thats why you have batteries and longer term storage such as hydrogen or synthetic hydrocarbons

>>16711439
>Not if you move your solar power production to space and just transmit the energy to earth
And what do you think the efficiency is on that? 0.01%?
Honestly, you just don't even know what you're talking about.

>>16711439
>space solar
I will kill you. Is this a ploy to keep /sfg/ alive by pissing me off?

>>16711440
>Energy is a fungible commodity
Dumb niggy

>>16711435
its the only thing that will
nothing else is scalable in the timeframes necessary (sub 5 years), especially nuclear

>>16711440
>the cost of solar is coming down continuously
>It's fallen from criminally expensive to just insanely expensive.

>>16711417
>Catalyze fusion at room temperature.
Low-energy nuclear reactions and metal catalyzed fusion if it exists has been locked away as a top secret black project after the Fleischmann, Pons, and Steven E. Jones fiasco.

OK guys even if space is dead it doesn't make this the energy generation thread.

>>16711442
It’s like 20% at worst if you set up a constellation at L1/4/5

>>16711444
Huh? I plug something in and it works regardless of the source. If solar fed batteries are cheaper than hydrocarbons then why would I care? Do you work in the oil and gas industry or something? You're weirdly emotional about this but you refuse to argue facts, just dismiss and meme

>>16711450
/sng/ - solar nucular general

>>16711450
>even if space is dead
It's not. It's just experiencing a really rough patch.

>he doesn't know about the /sfg/ solar vs nuclear civil war

>>16711450
This is a can of worms that opens ever few months here. It’s amusing and fun to discuss honestly

>>16711443
NTA why is it a bad idea? Can’t you transmit power via microwaves? Even with beam scattering and losses it’s still free sunshine

>>16711451
>20%
Anon, the PANELS ALONE are that bad. "Transmitting it to earth," through whatever magical mechanism you're picturing, will be ten times worse on a good day.
Honestly, what do you even picture for doing that? A really long wire? A space program to deliver batteries to and from it for charging? A microwave death beam pointed at a receiving station and you pray it never gets off alignment and vaporizes a city?

>>16711456
what is scalable on earth in the near term is a different question from what makes sense for a moon base or a starting mars base or on probes doing different missions

>>16711441
>hydrogen or synthetic hydrocarbons
Now I know you're trolling. Holy fuck.

>>16711451
Starlink is all the way down in LEO. Much cheaper to get to than any Ls. If the starlink network instead beamed down the power it collects at 20% efficiency, it would make about $15,000 per day. Do you understand now?

Why dont we set up the panels in the desert and beam power to the rocket that way

>>16711459
generally its just (much) cheaper to put the panels on the ground and let the sun transmit that power to the panels there directly

>>16711459
>free sunshine
Nothing launched into space is anywhere close to free.

>>16711464
>beamed down
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!

>>16711464
In one year the entire Starlink network could pay for 1/3rd of a Falcon 9 flight.

>>16711470
Read my post you stupid nigger, I'm explaining why it's retarded. Jesus Christ you are brain dead. I was doing the math within the constraints of his premise

>>16711470
why is this phrase always goofed on here

>>16711463
for seasonal storage you dumb cunt
hydrogen created through electrolysis is what the Tesla master plan 3 suggests, its a small part for just winter (in which you still do generate power, just less) and synthetic hydrocarbons is what handmers company is about
synthetic hydrocarbons might be cheaper due to easier storage and generally slotting into current systems
do you have any idea what people are talking about here or are you just coming into the thread and saying "solar bad"?

>>16711475
Absolutely retarded net-negative energy architecture. This is called “saving it for a rainy day,” not “hey let’s build civilization off of losing energy”

>>16711463
This started from a discussion about Casey Handmer and Terraform Industries. Are you telling me you've been posting this frantically without even knowing what we're talking about?

>>16711475
>hydrogen created through electrolysis
Sorry, grid is already overloaded.
>synthetic hydrocarbons might be cheaper
They're planning that shit in F1, "E-Fuel".
Turns out it's going to cost the teams roughly $10m per race weekend in just fuel alone.

>>16711477
Who gives a shit if there are energy conversion losses if it's still cheaper? Energy is a fungible commodity. It's just cost.

>>16711478
>BLOG MAN SAID IT
And he's selling a supposed solution. Never trust a man with vested interest in selling you solutions that turn out to be nothing but government handout programs.

>>16711481
Yeah trust the guy who can whip out the boomer memes and caps greentext seethe instead

>>16711480
Okay great, now you’re day-trading at a loss. I’m firing you and the whole floor full of california tech asians and jews trying to sell me this stupid idea

>>16711482
That’s the plan

>>16711475
>do you have any idea what people are talking about here or are you just coming into the thread and saying "solar bad"?
He refuses to read and is arguing against something we aren't even talking about.
>>16711484
This isn't relevant to the premise. You're making a fool of yourself and representing your ideas poorly.

>it’s a commodity goy, now watch me go strong-arm politicians to codify my product into law

>>16711482
How about I trust myself instead you dumb fucking retard? You want hydrogen to store energy? Good fucking luck, best way to create hydrogen is through cracking LNG, losing 70% of the energy within in the process. Hydrolysis? Fucking lol. Synthetic hydrocarbons is even more wasteful in conversion.
Sun? Probably nice if you're in Nevada but the entire planet isn't in fucking Nevada.

As for wind? Yeah, don't fucking bother. We've invested billions in that shit and the only thing it's led to is tax money going to private investors in tax paradises.

I swear you fucking retard will probably shill fusion too, completely ignorant of the amount of energy required to produce fuel that doesn't return anything but the energy stored within the fuel at best.

>>16711489
B-but le graph shows sinking production costs and growing output/demand! Casey said so!!

>>16711480
>Energy is a fungible commodity.
Are we allowed to disagree with this frankly idiotic assertion?
Even if you said ELECTRICITY was a fungible commodity, I would say you're still wrong.

don't even bother anon, anti-renewable retards cannot be reasoned with

>>16711489
Just read about Terraform or shut the fuck up, you legitimately do not understand the actual points we are talking about because you refuse to read.
>Probably nice if you're in Nevada
Are you Russian? Lots of hydrocarbons but no sun? I can't understand why else you would be so passionate.
No one is talking about wind except you because you're being deliberately disingenuous.
>>16711492
Samefag seethe

>>16711490
You've whipped yourself up into imagining I hold other positions you disagree with. I also hate your favorite food.

>If you disagree with me you must be Russian!
Well that didn't take long.

This general is absolutely incapable of discussing energy production and storage it’s unreal kek

>>16711501
I'm pretty fucking far from being one of those guys but I can't imagine what else might be making you so emotional

Casey and the emergence of retarded pseudointellectual “blog bros” has been a disaster for the human race

solar is going to win simply because you can basically print panels and just throw them on the ground -> free energy
nothing can keep up with this

>>16711504
>I would never do that, but that's what I'm doing.
Got it.

>>16711501
What other countries stand to lose if there's a shift away from hydrocarbons towards something based on sunlight? All the desert guys have plenty. US and China have plenty. Australia becomes a world power

>>16711506
Behold, the final form of the delusional, one-dimensional thinking solarfag

>>16711506
Nuclear's best example was France, but it turned out they source their fuel from their African colonies, and they've all had revolutions this year. Even France is struggling

solar is going to lose because it is limited to an absolute physical maximum of 1100 watts per square meter, and we will never get a perfectly efficient solar panel, and it shuts off at night and in the winter when it's cloudy and has to be replaced every ten years or so.
Solar is for unrealistic morons. Solar's uses are limited to small, low-draw systems that don't need to be constantly operational.

>>16711509
Just form a reasonable argument against the premise, ideally with numbers. You can't, so instead you just seethe. You should seriously be embarrassed. Not kidding. Go reread your posts. This is embarrassing.

>>16711508
>YOU MUST BE RUSSIAN!
And you must be Chinese. I'm glad you admit you are here only to shill solar panels made by wage slaves out of strip-mined materials.
Or would you like to admit you have been completely unfair in your accusation?

>>16711514
Here are some numbers: your argument makes 0 sense and you are 100% a fag

>>16711513
Why do you need perfect efficiency and constant use? It's just a cost function. If energy loss from night, clouds, and storage make it more expensive then oil, sure. But you're arguing that inefficiency independent of any real world considerations makes it infeasible.

>>16711516
It was an offhand guess that I clearly shouldn't have made due to political implications I didn't consider. But the spirit of the question still hasn't been answered. We're basically comparing technologies, and for some reason it sets off this >>16711517. I don't understand the emotion. This is a discussion about dry numbers and mundane constraints. Why are you acting like you've been slapped

>>16711519
>The materials are free.
>The land is free.
>The invertors are free.
>The power lines are free.
>The maintenance is free.
>The replacement is free.
Are you starting to see why I don't agree with your assessment?

>>16711523
they don't need to be free, they just need to be cheap and what is more important for the AI driven energy consumption boom, rapidly scalable

don't feed the trolls you tards

>>16711522
>I don't understand why people get angry when I won't listen to their counterarguments.
And we have many. You have a FICTIONAL graph that, like many scams, pretends the growth rate right at this moment (pretending it's even accurate) will keep happening forever.
1. The petroleum industry like money. Not oil: MONEY.
2. Electricity is worth a lot of money.
3. They own an ENORMOUS amount of land.
4. They are not covering that land with solar panels.
Ergo there is no real money to be made there.
And you know I'm right.
Solar's grown depends on subsidies.
I know you will say petroleum is subsidized, too.
BUT IT WASN'T ALWAYS AND IT STILL GREW.
Kill the solar subsidies and I promise you solar's growth will come to a dead halt.
That makes it a scam.

>>16711499
>Are you Russian? Lots of hydrocarbons but no sun? I can't understand why else you would be so passionate.
Actual Russian here. I don't know what you are arguing about and I will purposefully not read the reply chain to remain impartial, but I'm curious what makes you believe that we don't get a lot of sunlight.

>>16711523
But the alternative is also not free!!
Hydrocarbons are getting more difficult to extract, and solar is getting cheaper! Which of these trends do you dispute?

>>16711531
To people on the American continent, Russia = Siberia during coldest winter.

>>16711532
>Hydrocarbons are getting more difficult to extract, and solar is getting cheaper!
>And both of these things will keep happening forever because, like a toddler, I assume that what's happening right now will keep happening forever.

>>16711535
lol are you serious

>>16711532
>But the alternative is also not free!!
The alternative PAYS FOR ITSELF PLUS PROFIT. Solar does not. Solar clearly does not.
You are asking me to believe that at some point it will, but my skepticism is based on two facts you cannot dispute: No solar panel can EVER exceed 1100 watts per square meter. If the light is impinged in ANY way, the solar energy output is EXPONENTIALLY decreased.
Solar is going to run face-first into some fundamental physical laws, and I just hope you have invested all your money in it when it does so you die destitute.

>>16711533
Russia receives almost exactly half the sunlight per area on average. It receives about 70% more sunlight total due to being larger, but the panels are the expensive part. It's a reasonable point.

>>16711536
>I'm telling you, solar will just keep getting cheaper until the cost is zero. No, wait, NEGATIVE!
I accept your surrender.

>>16711535
Hydrocarbons will get easier to extract?

>>16711535
Yes, manufacturing a product will get more expensive and difficult, just like it has for the rest of the industrial revolution. Oh wait

>>16711541
The price doesn't need to be zero or negative. Do you have brain worms?

>>16711535
Okay might be the most retarded post of the day

>>16711542
>Hydrocarbons will get easier to extract?
What if they stay at the same difficulty as now for the next fifty years?

>>16711547
Says the retard who literally believes solar will keep getting cheaper forever.
Hey fucktard, what if it never gets cheap enough to be profitable without subsidies?

QI bros, status update? 0 info on if it's been turned on yet or not but the altitude has been leveling out over the last month

>>16711543
Then you agree that fracking will get cheaper and cheaper. Or would you now like to place some conditions on your answer?
Again, I accepted your surrender.

>>16711554
wtf is meme mcculloch gonna do when it turns out he’s simply wrong?

>>16711548
Yeah man. If the trends in hydrocarbon extraction and solar production immediately stop for half a century, you win.

>>16711560
>I wasn't involved in the production of the device, they simply used my theories
>They likely built it wrong or it got damaged in transit
>I need more money to build and test a real device, it will take 15 years
something like that interspersed with 100 fox news tier tweets a day

>>16711561
Well, please invest every penny you have in solar, and remortgage your mom's house and invest that too. I'm sure you'll be rich.

>>16711539
>per area on average
Most of the low sunlight area is either uninhabited or sparsely inhabited. And while the most inhabited areas aren't exactly Africa in terms of sun exposure, solar is still viable there. Especially in the more southern regions, where I happen to live. In fact, there are some solar panels in my city, although most are on street lights, with the largest ones I've seen being located on the roof of a bus station convenience store, so it's nothing serious.

The mere fact that China is firing up more and more coal plants to produce solar panels for your "green shift" should make you get the idea.

>>16711530
The hydrocarbon industry is notorious for wild swings and intense competition. They do not have the time or money required for innovation. As you say, they love money, so as soon as the innovation did come along they made a deal. Terraform already has a deal with an LNG company who wants to fill their land with solar and use their existing pipe infrastructure on syngas. Which again, you would know if you did the bare minimum amount of reading required to participate in this conversation.

>>16711212
>le rocket didn't explode in a static test
>I am now angry

>>16711561
Solar production can do nothing but max out toward perfect efficiency. It’s asymptotal.
Meanwhile there is nothing stopping good fortune, as keeps happening with resource deposits and the United States, whereby new sources of easily-extractable hydrocarbons are found
Yes it’s not a forever-solution, but the can can very easily be kicked another 100, 200, 500 years down the road.

>>16711555
fracking a given type of deposit will get cheaper, but the exploitability of deposits will get more difficult as the easiest ones will gradually be exploited
but the main tech stack for hydrocarbons is pretty mature now, won't really get much cheaper

on the other hand solar panels and battery storage are relatively new technologies where costs seem to follow wrights law pretty well >>16711365
>>16711357
i.e the costs come down a certain percentage for each cumulative doubling of produced units

>>16711559
Only 4% of what we use for farming will solve global energy? Even with disingenuous math in a schizo coded graphic? Good deal

>>16711566
And what happens when the daddy government says “fuck this shit, we’re tired of subsidizing this green energy” and suddenly you find yourself rug-pulled. We’re already seeing automotive manufacturers and energy companies turn their heads to electric / renewables as soon as the govt showed so much as a slight sign of not wanting to provide incentives

>>16711564
I wasn't disparaging Russia at all, I was just trying to figure out why this guy was acting like solar power killed his dog

>>16711559
how old is this pic? 15 years?
can't even find that on lists of largest solar power plants as its so tiny comparatively speaking

>>16711571
>what happens when the daddy government says “fuck this shit, we’re tired of subsidizing this green energy” and suddenly you find yourself rug-pulled
This already happened in 2011. The US government wasn't diversified enough and the green bubble popped with a single bankruptcy. The result now is that China is leaps ahead of us in panel production.

I like Jared but I don't want him to be on the first ship to Mars because the Jews would never EVER shut up about it.

All those accumulated centuries of work done by white people only to be stolen and credited to Jews at the peak of it all. Terrifying.

>>16711576
I have considered this but avoided posting about it for around a year. I call him New Jerseyan in my head to cope

>>16711572
>I wasn't disparaging Russia at all
I didn't think that you were (if you did, I would have joined in, I hate it here). I'm just explaining why this isn't reasonable to say that solar isn't viable in Russia. If anything, the Volga region is perfect for solar farms due to being southern, very flat, and largely tree-less.

>>16711559
What is this boomer crap. Thermal solar hasn't been the most efficient solution for ages. Way to expose yourself.

>>16711565
they are getting any and all power online they can, including coal

https://x.com/AlecStapp/status/1938529615972053157

>>16711575
And what does china benefiting from running on so much solar energy? As >>16711565 pointed out it’s not like you magically get solar panels and wind turbines for free. Traditional (read: coal and hydrocarbon) power is used further up the chain to ultimately make their ostensibly green solar architecture

>>16711578
Well thank you for the info. I had honestly written the place off in my head with regard to solar.

>>16711582
https://x.com/JessePeltan/status/1938729318869540941

>>16711576
Yeah I think this as well. Kek he’s always piping up about how the IDF are doing great things, stupid zionist takes against iran, etc. Great guy but jews need to be culled or else all the problems with earth will be easily carried with us to the stars

>>16711568
the important thing here is not efficiency, why do you keep bringing that up
its cost

>>16711583
Are they bringing coal online specifically to make more solar, or are they bringing on as much energy production as their industrial base is capable of producing? Energy availability and quality of life is nearly 1:1 and a state has an interest in such things. Well, a state that doesn't despise its own people anyway

>>16711569
>Batteries are new technology.
What if I told you that batteries predate the petroleum industry?
>My opinion wouldn't change because it isn't driven by facts.

>>16711583
they get fucking easily scalable power production

>>16711586
does it cost more energy to create solar panels than said panels can create? Where are they getting the energy to produce so many panels

>>16711583
Jesus christ, they're not using the shit for themselves other than as symbolic "LOOK HOW GREEN CHINA IS CHINA NUMBA WAN!" shit.
They use fossil fuels to sell you shit that will never fucking ever replace fossils. Thank you, come again.

>>16711588
He is incapable of thinking from first principles
He would never be hired at SpaceX
Sad

>>16711579
Please, show me the most efficient solar plant we have. Tell me its acreage, output, and total cost.
(This is your big chance to prove me wrong, but of course you won't because you can't.)

>>16711592
yes of course China is doing this just because its funny
are you retarded? yes you are

>>16711591
lol, lmao even

What is the most ironic way to liquidate solarfags?

>>16711596
i’m asking in good faith as someone who doesn’t really know anything about it, but I see that you are emotionally attached to the subject

>>16711593
They're subsiding selling us the panels to suppress our production of them. Are you retarded? China is literally losing money to get us these panels. They are spending money so we can't make them! If having them isn't important, why would they expend resources so we don't have them?

>>16711590
new from the perspective of cumulative units produced
batteries were invented and then largely abandoned for a hundred years which meant they weren't advancing much

>>16711591
>easily scalable
I honestly keep getting the impression that you have absolutely no idea how solar power works.
You apparently think a solar panel just hooks itself to the grid and regulates itself and spits out AC in unlimited quantity forever.

>>16711603
>batteries were invented and then largely abandoned for a hundred years
Please cite your source for this supposedly scientific claim.
If you can't do so, just ignore this post or change the subject or call me a Russian again.

>>16711602
So we're up shit creek and will never have the energy requirements to restart production in our countries? That's a pretty fucking basic loss leader strategy if I ever saw one.
How much time do you spend per day on tiktok brainrot? Just curious.

>>16711604
AI data centers will be built off-grid due to the interconnect wait times

>>16711595
Alamosa Solar Generating Plant in Colorado
225acres
60GWh per year
$90.6million for the initial installation

So can anyone answer *why* china is investing so heavily into solar? Don’t assume I’m picking a side here, I just want to know why.

And if your answer is “it’s scalable,” you’re getting thrown out the airlock.

>>16711566
>The oil companies made a deal so they couldn't profit from solar because they hate money.

>>16711607
what is your thesis here? loss leader in what sense?
this is insane
the power produced by solar panels is not actually real power or something to you?

>>16711607
What are you talking about? We don't make them. We literally don't have the technology. China is ahead in this instance. Their government invested while ours didn't.

>>16711612
because china hates money, its as simple as that

>>16711613
You would understand how completely nonsensical this comment is if you did the bare minimum reading. Again.

>>16711615
>We literally don't have the technology
Holy fucking shit. You really are raised on brainrot aren't you.
Look up REC some time.

>>16711612
The answer is that they import a majority of their fossil fuels, so pivoting to solar and driving down costs lower and lower is beneficial to them from an energy independence standpoint

>>16711621
no thats not it, China is just retarded and they hate money and they have brainrot
they just like to produce panels because they like the aesthetics so much, that is why they also sell them so cheaply, its altruistic

>>16711612
They have plenty of land and silicon. There's a potential future where they can separate from trends in the rest of the global energy market, with their production so distributed it can't be bombed. Also, as a percentage of total state expenditure in the last decade, they've spent roughly 0.005–0.02% of total annual budget. We spend 1% on dialysis.

>>16711623
literally cannot tell if this is a shitpost, but you have said it more than once so I am inclined to believe that you are being serious here

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1939776586989150590

>>16711620
COST you fucking faggot. It's the COST. Jesus CHRIST you are a fucking moron.

>>16711625
zeihan told me china will collapse in two weeks

>>16711627
Oh good, he didn't learn anything

>>16711610
>initial
I'm skeptical that this is the whole cost.
>60GWh per year.
Interesting claim. My source gives the energy, not power, and cites it as 35MW. That makes the cost per unit power $2.57 compared to Fort Calhoun Nuclear's 5¢. So using your numbers, nuclear is 50 times cheaper.
Solar is clearly not the future.

>>16711627
Elon please keep your mouth shut for another month.

>>16711627
Dammit, this fucking faggot man…

>>16711609
>AI data centers will be built off-grid
No, they really won't. That's idiotic.

>>16711627
>If it is the last thing I do on this earth
>not rockets
>not Mars
>but primarying some Wisconsin farmer over something that doesn't effect him

>>16711618
>Trust me bro!
Very scientific!

>>16711627
Sigh

Rip the mars project I guess. Sorry von Braun. Musk went full retard

>>16711592
no.
from solar.

>>16711627
Oh Elon, please tell me you are only writing this shit so libtards will stop setting Tesla dealerships on fire!

>>16711636
I'm not telling you to trust me I'm telling you to READ you apparently illiterate fucking NIGGER

>>16711631
>My source
The Google AI? Jesus you are a retard. Believe whatever you want, I don't care

>>16711641
No, I'm telling YOU to read. Because if you would just read, you would learn that I am right about literally everything! Just read. Just stop seething and read. Just read.
(There, I win because I said "just read" more times than you did, neither of us actually having cited any scientific sources.)

>>16711627
Shouldnt the last thing you do be on Mars, MUSKFUCK?

>>16711642
>The Google AI?
It's from Wikipedia, dipshit.
That isn't even fucking Google. Are you on crack?

>>16711644
I posted the Terraform white paper and said to read it, you kept talking about it without having read it, and kept saying things that had nothing to do with the premise. You clearly don't care to learn. Why did I even bother engaging. You don't care

>>16711627
howard hughes arc in full swing. and just like hughes, musk will fall far short of any lasting legacy. he will now give his entire fortune away to political rats and action committees.

>>16711627
Go fight AIPAC and jewish interests and all your problems will be solved, Mr. Musk.
(you’re not a powerful enough noticer to do this, unfortunately)

>>16711164
the man found his calling in exploding labs, what more can one dream of?

>>16711647
>Terraform white paper and said to read it
The blog post? That's your scientific source? Is it peer-reviewed?
I would bet money that's YOUR blog.

>>16711652
Did you forget how this conversation started? We were talking about Terraform Industries. I posted the Terraform Industries white paper. You didn't read it. You proceeded to shit yourself

>>16711650
He is willfully ignorant. His first principles philosophy is failing in the social-culture-political sphere. Maybe due to autism, maybe due to senility, maybe due to inapplicability

It's peak-oil forever, chaps! We're always right at the end!

>>16711627
That's All Folks!

>>16711651
Shit, if I could make a good living blowing up lab equipment, I might come out of early retirement.

>>16711657
Okay but the guy calling it in ‘78 here was on to something for a while

>>16711655
>We were talking about Terraform Industries.
Anon, do you really think you have been arguing with one and only one person this whole time?
That is NOT how I entered the conversation.
I entered the conversation here, and because there are no ID's on this board, I would have no way to trace the conversation backwards from that point:
>>16711422

>>16711657
Who are you arguing with? It's just cost

>>16711658
Yes, let’s build a coalition where we throw meltys, don’t move the needle, and then threaten to help the enemy win because we’re not getting what we want.
Masterful gambit!

>>16711663
>I admit that solar costs too much to be competitive without subsidies.
Yes, cost.

>>16711665
>don’t move the needle
Oh the needle moved, alright. Several formerly neutral people now hate him

>>16711627
Nothing happened last time, nothing will happen this time. Although I agree with Musk somewhat here. Big bills are just a way to Trojan horse bad policy within good policy. And I'm certain that Trump is doing this knowingly since he used this exact criticism against that immigration bill from a while back.

>>16711667
That’s not the case on a global scale

>>16711662
You joined the middle of a conversation, didn't read the beginning, posted a boomer comic, and had a confused meltdown. Not my problem.
>>16711667
Right, and the trends to the contrary will immediately stop and hold steady until you're dead

I wish we could force solar retards to give up all petroleum use. They would die, of course, but it would be comical.

>>16711672
>you didn't go back and read the entire thread!!!
Actually this conversation has been ongoing on /pol/ for many years and your side has been on continual retreat. Why didn't you go read all those before coming in here? Go do that now, but first apologize for jumping in right in the middle.

>>16711673
>

fuck you

>boomer images
>constant shit flinging
>inscrutable or nonexistent logic
>refusal to research outside of macros or the first google result
I should have guessed it was a /pol/fag. That's actually on me.

>>16711677
The beauty of watching your childish, retarded, clueless solar ranting is that you will lose in every sense.
Everyone here thinks you're a moron and laughs at you. Society is NOT going solar and never will. You lose in the short run and the long run.
All you can do is tell yourself over and over that unsubsidized solar will become profitable any day now while the world keeps showing you to be wrong now and forever.
I win eternally.

>>16711650
>(you’re not a powerful enough noticer to do this, unfortunately)
lol, he noticed a thing once and was immediately sent on a trip to Auschwitz

>>16711682
>That last time I went to /pol/ they sent me home crying.

>>16711686
/pol/ filled with literal boomers after the trump subreddit closed. I went last month and consensus was pro isreal.
>>16711683
Why are you emotionally invested though? Please answer this time.

>>16711658
Does Elon not understand what RELATIVE COST is?

>>16711690
>I went last month
That was when we most recently made you cry?

>>16711692
Seeing /pol/ be entirely pro isreal was enough to make me cry, yeah.

>>16711694
>entirely
Not even slightly. But I've noticed that 100% of people who are pro-solar are tranny pedophiles, so I assume you are one, too. Why do you molest children?
(As long as each of us is apparently allowed to use a blanket categorization of the other, I figure it will be funniest if everyone here starts saying you diddle kids.)

>>16711691
>Does Elon not understand what RELATIVE COST is?
This is a very common tactic from the left. Because of inflation, everything is almost constantly at its most expensive ever.

>immediately brings up trannies and pedophiles
most mentally stable /pol/ crossboarder

>this fucking thread
wow, this must be a REALLY slow day for spaceflight

I guess the next thing is in 24 hours, basking in ESA seething that they have to launch one of their satellites on a filthy Falcon 9. Why didn't it launch on an Ariane 6?

>>16711706
It's what happens anytime the CEO of SpaceX has one of his public meltdowns.

Yay, we're back to awesome /sfg/: full of politics! Thank you, Elon!

>>16711658
>PORKY PIG PARTY
holy shit, he called them the f**k out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvaVxHkynY4

>>16711669
Musk already took the mask off when he cried about the solar subsidies ending. For him to change his outrage to the deficit is cringe.

Make homer hickam the NASA admin

>>16711677
Good reply to a dumb post honestly lol

>>16711715
cant even watch this, its just depressing.

>>16711717
Kek the funny part is, during his melty he said "end the subsidies, I dont care. All I care about is the deficit"
and then a week later was crying about losing his subsies

>>16711733
hes too autistic to meddle in politics. It's troubling how shivon or shotwell or SOMEONE hasn't tried to tard wrangle him in at this point

>>16711734
She can only wrangle him on SpaceX property. Nothing she can do about him posting on twitter. Shivon has even less power despite birthing some of his kids. Grimes made a couple of attempts at getting him to calm down during a meltdown and you can see where that got her.

its not simply about the "subsidies", its how abruptly they are getting cut and the especially the extra red tape that is created actively making it more difficult

>>16711734
>>16711740
He's a poorly adjusted psychopath, literalyl has all the signs of being one. If he was an austist he would have got nowhere in the business world.

>>16711743
World's wealthiest man is complaining because his gibs were cut off too quickly. Oh no!

>>16711743
Don’t bite the hand that feeds you!

>>16710788 (OP)
Oh no...... I missed the flight 10.... How was it like?

>>16711746
it takes years to design these projects, if there was no subsidies in the first place then that would have been taken into account when getting capital and so on

its like giving someone a helping hand and then suddenly punching them in the face instead

>>16711748
what the fuck are you talking about retard

>>16711744
Problem is the world autist has become so disconnected from the psych definition that it can mean almost anything but usually ends up meaning someone who doesn't act as one wishes they would act. Musk and his handlers have taken advantage of this to put him in the same category as harmless dorks obsessing over trains. Because people like calling others autists, it makes it easy for him to hide behind that label as others gleefully apply it to him.

>>16711750
Oh no, the world's wealthiest man is mildly inconvenienced by gibs being reduced. Are you going to hold a funeral for his slightly lowered margins?

>>16711753
you have no idea what you are talking about do you?

>>16711715
He is basically telling the Chinese what to do to win in space, since we are mired in politics and corruption over here, someone needs to get on it
China, duh, thats your cue

>>16711753
I’m not trying to suck musk’s balls here but this “argument” is extremely derivative and progressive (i.e. retarded)

>>16711751
It's the /pol/fag. Elon went against Zion Don and is reaping the consequences as far as he's concerned

ITS and Ares V wouldn’t have failed like this

Flight 10 would've been yesterday had shit 36 hadn't shit the bed during a SF like a FUCKING RETARD

>>16711733
>then a week later was crying about losing his subsies

Actually he was complaining that coal and oil retain their subsidies despite being highly profitable.

>>16711760
Let's be honest ITS would have failed like this

>>16711761
Yeah then it could have blown up in-flight instead of on the test stand

There’s an alternate timeline where Trump effectively quadrupled the NASA budget to levels unheard of since the 70s and directed Musk to put boots on the moon and mars at all costs, with unlimited resources.
Elon is a retard who fumbled the bag and I’m not sure he even realizes this

>>16711762
He still doesn't understand what he's fighting. Those are subsidized as a matter of foreign policy. He still doesn't understand the entity he's up against. Fuck

>>16711768
>>16711769
I deadass believe Musk does not understand politics past one or two degrees of separation, and only sees the world operating as very black-and-white

>>16711768
He was correct about too many things in a row from the dot com bubble through COVID, which means he is psychologically incapable of conceiving that he might be wrong. Things went south at the Whitehouse because of everyone besides him. That's what he thinks.
>>16711770
Useful for engineering. Not multilayered social games populated by 100,000 psychopaths

when even the most pro-musk palce on the internet hates him, how does the man recover his reputation?
Seems like he's burning onpure fumes and momentum rightnow.

>>16711773
He still has tens of millions (maybe hundred of billions) of Indians that adore him.

>>16711777
Shit... maybe hundred of millions. It just seems like there are hundred of billions of them.

>>16711768
If China were like just 5-7 more years ahead I think the whole NASA thing would have panned out better even in spite of the deficit disagreements. For how retarded ted cruz is, I’ll still give him credit for being able to recognize a Red Moon as a nationalistic issue (granted cruz wants to use it more just for keeping congressional district jobs online like mission control jobs, wants to keep ISS and Gateway alive, etc)
A majority of the country doesn’t even know or care that china and russia want to go to the Moon. The public doesn’t care, the MSM doesn’t care, politicians don’t care, thus it isn’t even on Potus’ radar or agenda or his admin’s think tank team’s mind. But when China get LM10 working and it becomes common boomer knowledge that they are going, NASA is going to get a lot more attention again. Just unfortunate timing

>>16711773
It’s okay he still has ian miles cheong and replyguy sars telling him he’s doing what is right for america.

>>16711773
why did he autism out and abandon mr trump

>>16711768
>There’s an alternate timeline where

Yes, an alternate timeline that lets you avoid how people under Trump decided to backstab Elon and gut NASA's science budget.

>>16711779
>It just smells like there are hundred of billions of them.
fixd

>>16711783
>get hired by Trump to cut waste
>takes a tremendous amount of flak in the process, to the point that the left was firebombing Tesla dealerships

And how did people around Trump thank Elon? But canning Jared and undoing all of Elons work for Trump.

>>16711779
Europe just launched a biomass satellite on a Vega C, once they scan India very thoroughly, and pockets of Britain, the US, and Canada, we will be able to count them with a fairly tight error bar, maybe +/-10% is my guess
I think the data set this satellite generates will shock the world, and the hominid biomass of India will be far higher than anyone thought possible
Empirical evidence of this happening at scale appear globally, the spread seems to be going exponential

Man fuck spaceflight. I'm going into a modded factorio hole. I'll check back in with you guys in five years

>>16711791
Come back next presidential term for some hopium that'll get swept away in 6-10 years.

Star Trek Discovery was made when elon was still le epic iron man reddit guy, and in the show he is namedropped as one of humanity's great inventors lol

>>16711789
And fucking him over other ways, gutti g NASA, destroying renewable and maybe AI as well and all this after musk first campaigned and donated a lot of money and after that used a bunch of more time with Doge

>>16711780
>>16711756
lol China is doomed to collapse within the next 2-5 years

>>16711791

>>16711627
>last thing I do on this Earth
2026 launch window bros, it's happening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3Ay-nX6hE0

>>16711803
KEK

>>16711803
Hahah

>>16711791
I already fell into an AI image generation hole thanks to Chroma

elon has learned that spending millions on a politician doesn't mean they'll do what you want them to (and that's a good thing)

>>16711839
I suppose. America is said to carry the proverbial torch of western civilization originally from ancient greece and the roman empire. At least our political system is somewhat robust

>>16711839
What did he actually want that he didn't get? He just seems to have had a meltdown for no reason.

>>16711854
cutting the debt. Elon burned a gazillion bridges with his retarded DOGE effort which only saved like 10 billion. with the BBB we're adding 5 trillion onto the debt. so really he ruined his life for nothing

>>16711858
I guess I don't see the debt as being that important compared to space travel. Yes it's enormous and will eventually lead to a crisis, but not right now. We have other things to focus on, like building rocket ships that don't explode

>>16711862
to shreds, you say?

>>16711862
Literally every sane person believes this. Even von Braun would have taken this stance, and decided to press on to Mars.
Elon got a case of the hyperfixation and ruined his life as >>16711858 said. Or at least, turned a significant page that now starts a new chapter

>>16711839
He spent it wrong. You're supposed to gift the individual senator a beach house

>>16711661
>Okay but the guy calling it in ‘78
You mean when the mideast countries finally got tired of their oil being taken cheap by foreign countries and merely cut the supply?

>>16711760
Ares would have failed with a SRB RUD like we saw last week.

>>16711780
>If China were like just 5-7 more years ahead
impossible since most of the "progress" is copying what SpaceX is doing, they're finally nearly caught up with the F9 as of years ago

>>16711858
Musk is a dunning kruger retard on every subject he touches. On politics he is no different (assuming he isnt acting in bad faith). He sees the big debt as a problem, but doesnnt realise that the big debt is not the root problem, it is a symptom.
There is probably a bit of bad faith in his assesment of the situation, because the solution is contrary to his interests as a rich guy. he decided to target poor plebs instead with slashing goverment services, wrecking hundreds of thousands of people at the very least, in exchange for saving money amounting to less than 5% of his own net worth.
What a jackass.

The core of the problem is massive concentration of wealth in few hands. Those hands pay virtually no tax, so the more that accumulates in their hands the less real revenue the government can generate from tax. While at the same time the welfare burden on the government goes up because poverty becomes more widespread due to the ongoing concentration. Everyone has played monopoly. It's basically just that. Oligarchs will bankrupt the population and the state to the point that we own nothing and are happy. Marx was right in a sense, the 'state' as a distinct entity from the ruling elite will wither away, and we will go back to feudalism where the mafia class at the top were the state and directly owned people.

>>16711882
Holy pseudposting

>>16711883
>t. Elon Musk

>>16711883
post POE rank

>>16711890
Sorry, I don't play Pillars of Eternity

>>16711882
What is the point of taxing at all when the government already spends more than it taxes? Just print more money and let the government spend it since it is more efficient

>>16711903
shhhhh

>>16711890
Merc HCSSFR lvl.93 Evicerate Glad. delve depth 840

>>16711908
grim

>>16711882
Opposite of reality you dumb fuck, rich people pay the most taxes

>>16711426

Exactly what Toyota came up with Mira. And that wasn't stupid.

Okay, it was stupid but....

>>16711791
factorio is spaceflight tho

>>16711881
Once they get their F9 clone working that puts them on par with America and then they will have to forge their own path to get to the Moon since the West is clearly not interested in doing that.

>>16711791
Yeah, think I'll take a break too

I hope Trump deport that Ketamine clown back to Africa.

we never found out why that one guy was so emotional about solar power

spehs

>>16712006
He will

>>16711379
Oh great... The Martian 2.

>>16712014
How can a 79 year old man entirely powered by McDonald's manage to write a tweet at 1am

>>16712017
Have you tried eating nothing by McDonald's?
It's a pathway to powers some would consider unnatural

>>16712014
It doesn't matter that SpaceX saved the taxpayers money. Every normal person thinks the opposite now. How did Elon fuck it up this spectacularly.

>>16712014
About that golden dome, who does Trump think capable of launching that?

>>16711384
Could be a cthonic planet. It's the remains of a gas giant core, super compressed. Even though the gas is long gone, the core remains in a dense state, only gradually relaxing over millennia.

>>16712020
Trump won't actually cancel any spacex contracts, out of necessity, but he's trying to send a message to Elon to stay in his lane and stop being a nuisance.
Elon seems to have brain problems

>>16712024
No one, obviously. He's just teasing Elon like he does to anyone who defies him. Elon has turned himself into a lolcow and Trump knows exactly how to handle people like that.

>>16712020
>How did Elon fuck it up this spectacularly.
Apparently he was serious about the whole "fixing the government" thing. We thought it was a means to an end to get to Mars, but it's now clear that spaceflight has become a minor side interest to Elon.

>>16712020
Elon is naive and honestly thought Trump and his followers would be any different from the usual.

>>16712028
I don't believe for one second that Trump could articulate what SpaceX actually contributes. He's probably serious about canceling it because he doesn't know what he's cancelling beyond the payments.
>>16712032
He really wants to fix Earth first
What a dumbass

>>16712014
Elon should have kept his sloppy mouth shut

>>16712014
what will /sfg/ do to save spaceflight from the orange one?

>>16712041
i dont know, can you list some terrorist acts?

>>16712037
>ORANGE MAN IS A STUPID IDIOT
When will you get tired of being wrong about him?

Someone should ask Ship 37 if it's feeling suicidal

>>16711690
>I went last month and consensus was pro isreal.
kek, this anon has entered the delusional "wishful thinking" state

>>16712037
Trump could ramble an entire hour about SpaceX contributions and some of it would even be accurate.

>>16712032
A concern is obviously that a Mars colony will need support from earth for some time and political risks could jeopardize that. But it's also his stubborn autism butting up against the irrationality of politics.

>>16712053
It should be static fired on 4th of July

>Elon Musk promised to bankroll primary challenges against Republican lawmakers who vote to pass legislation representing a sizable portion of Donald Trump’s political agenda on Monday as the Senate debated its final passage.
wait so we just have to run for election. all we need to do is say we support mars? and we get millions of dollars for it even if we lose?

>>16712061
You dont have to run for office, you have to work for Musk's America PAC. Or even better, find out how the PAC spends money and go work for whoever or whatever they outsource to. Maybe advertizing agencies

Is there a Space-Flight PAC?

>>16712072
we get SPACs instead

>>16712073
Here we get mostly Spics
Ever since the ICE raids, the lawns aren't mowed, the tacos are ass-like, the welds are poor, and the COPVs are dinged
Someone with some sense needs to act

I'm just looking forward to Ship 37 exploding and taking out the entire launch site, and putting an end to this whole farce.

>>16712061
Does he WANT to get gulaged? 3 weeks ago he didn't wtf

>>16712077
He's not starting a party, he won't remember this tomorrow let alone next year.

>>16712080
and TSLA stock will crash upon market open
because of this

>>16712084
Nah the market has tuned out Musk's spergouts
MECO

Spacex should nudge apophis onto a more interesting trajectory, 1.2 gigatons shouldn't go to waste

>>16712084
TSLA stock doesn't function on logic.

>>16712014
is he retarded? the bill is already going to cut the EV subsidies and gov launches for SpaceX are a small fraction of all revenue
these are not really leverage for Trump anymore
its like saying I'm going to eat your ice cream which you already took last week and then pay the special needs kid to do your math homework instead of you so you don't get a few bucks

>>16711839
It works more often than not. But the way you do it is to give them money and keep your mouth shut in public even if they don't give what you want every time.

>>16712112
Yes Trump is retarded
His success up until now has just been pure luck
But his luck just ran out

>>16712115
few weeks ago when this happened last time Trump was able to make Musk go ballistic with the lie about Musk wanting EV subsidies, which then ultimately gave the win to Trump
but the same playbook is not going to work now
a third party could really fuck things up for Trump, Musk is going to stay around even after Trumps term

maybe Trump actually believes this is about the EV subsidies? but that leverage is gone
maybe this is just for his own base

>>16712084
it does that anyway all the time
in fact there is a scenario where this is actually helpful to Musk (won't go into it here)

Dumb retard couldn't keep his attention-seeking in check and just lobby politicians normally.

>>16712102
I sold TSLA and bought TRMP
MAGA!
also NIGGER.
we are never going to Mars, I shit my diaper, /sfg/ is dead

Ok, so actually spaceflight.
What do we think about Rocket Lab a good buy?

>>16712077

>Kosmos-2558 confirmed to be a co-orbital ASAT satellite
>its currently co-planar with USA 326
>two other Nivelir satellites (Kosmos-2576 and 2588) are co-planar with USA 314 and USA 338
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=56833.0;all

russia has a growing fleet of space-to-space combat satellites and trump is over here trying to kill golden dome

>>16712166
Wasn't Golden Dome his idea?

>>16712170
yeah but he needs spacex if he wants to launch the satellites

>>16712171
He's not going to kill SpaceX, any more than he's going to annex Canada. He's just bothering Elon because he can

>>16712077
go back to /pol/
>>16712146
go back to /biz/
>>16712166
go back to /k/

>>16712014
Elon is a stupid nigger who should have just kept his mouth shut

https://x.com/AJ_FI/status/1939951237501173856
>China to set up first international association on deep-space exploration

https://english.news.cn/20250701/b0d18d17baff4871bebebd976ac0f6a5/c.html

>>16710808
Remember? We’re in the midst of one as we speak.

Elon makes a good case for bringing lobotomies back in to practice

>>16711384
>>16711389
>It's just a super-Mercury
...with a density 25% higher than nickel-iron alloy. Geez, does that thing have some exotic composition or is it large enough that gravity compresses it enough to cause the density increase?

>>16712049
About a month ago. I voted for him twice. Turns out he's a fucking idiot.

>>16712252
It's this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chthonian_planet
>they might have densities larger than that of an iron planet of the same size.
>These exoplanets orbit very close to their stars and could be the remnant cores of evaporated gas giants or brown dwarfs.
>If cores are massive enough they could remain compressed for billions of years despite losing the atmospheric mass.

>>16712014
Perhaps Elon should try sperging out again? It hasn't worked so far but third time's the charm

>>16712257
He should try ignoring his main leverage with the federal government some more, maybe three or four more disastrous explosions would do it

>>16712240
>China to set up first international association on deep-space exploration
Communist Accords

>>16711903
>Just print more money and let the government spend it
Banks can print money with fractional reserve but government actually can't. Government goes into debt for extra money like a normal person. That's why it issues bonds.
>>16711919
Of course they pay more taxes than a normal person, because they are phenominally wealthy, but a much smaller FRACTION of their wealth is paid as tax. That's how they stay rich and grow their wealth even while poverty is growing in the society.
It is important because very wealthy people also make tiny contributions to the real economy as a fraction of their wealth. Normal people spend almost all their money in the real economy, so if they were taxed less and had more money it would be very good for the economy (1960s America). Rich people usually just hoard assets, which results in insane asset prices and HARMS the economy.

>>16712263
I get that the world has had terrible wars before, depressions, famine, world wars, etc. But now is arguably one of the worst times to be alive because we have learned how to “grow” the economy at the expense of everyone overextending themselves for no benefit. Economic mobility is tightening and the average person is quickly getting priced out of owning while the cost of goods and services is skyrocketing. But the government can dodge bubbles and keep this shit going almost infinitely. It’s only going to get worse.
Would have been better to be born in the recent past when life was better, or in the future when gays gay trek post-scarcity is figure out. Instead here we are, stuck in the middle of post-industrial serfdom paying half our assets to israel and a pedophile-ridden government while the prospect of mars fades into the mists of edgy libertarianism on a road to nowhere

Are you brave enough to entertain the thought that things might have actually been better under Kamala?

>TRUMP, ASKED ABOUT DEPORTING MUSK, SAYS HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK
https://x.com/DeItaone/status/1940016950244966553
hahahaha

TAKE HIS PHONE AWAY

>>16712279
At worse, you'll just get the usual complaining about how slow the FAA is. Not whether whole parts of NASA or whatever is getting cut out or someone having a schizo fit. It would have been boring but compared to whatever this is, 'no news is good news'.

>>16712282
Elon is going to Gatortraz Island

>>16712285
Elon would still be having schizo fits

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1940024002375717123

I propose a political hypothesis, tentatively called the fit-and-filter law, which states that anyone on the spectrum enough to want to spearhead off-world space flight colonialism is also going to be detrimentally retarded and find a way to get barred from doing so through regulation and political suicide. Throw a fit, get filtered. Planetary protection progressives, fiscal zionist conservatives, there will be a way for anyone to say
>alright buddy FAFO now you aren’t going to mars
We got close to almost making it this time I suppose. Nice try bros.

>>16712291
ELON YOURE FUCKING RETAAAAAARDED THE DEFICIT WILL HAVE LITERALLY NO EFFECT ON MAAAAARS YOU FAGGOT

>>16712291
You can tell modern American is a broken system because we allow people this retarded to somehow serendipitously become billionaires

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1940025317701148864

>>16712298
Musk
Eventually
Chickens
Out

>>16712298
Elon is such a nigger it’s unreal

>>16712297
serendipitiously? you are retarded
there is nothing serendipitous about this

>>16712298
Trump is just toying with him

>>16712298
>erm I could throw a tantrum but I’m not going to!
Absolutely childish

>>16712298
I don't think Trump was serious here, not even really upset

>>16712298
>I will refrain for now
Nigga you already called him a pedophile and called for his removal from power. Somebody needs to tard wrangle elon this instant

>>16712305
He has no reason to be upset. He doesn't fear Elon, and knows how to make use of him when necessary. Elon has absolutely no idea

>>16712306
It'll be even funnier when Ship 37 explodes during static fire on the launch mount and obliterates the entire site, and Elon doesn't even give it a cursory mention on X

>>16712298
Elon just overestimate his power and influence, it won't end well for him.

One of two torches needs to be passed. Either elon needs to be “the mars guy” and do shady Soros-tier political swaying where he stays out of the spotlight but finds guys to bankroll to get his bidding done. Or he can be le stupid third-party guy but needs to make someone else the visible head of SpaceX.
Dragging down your political career and intimately entangling spacex in the middle of it is going to nuke the mars project. It might already be too late honestly.

>>16712317
I don't think he's particularly interested in Mars anymore

>>16712315
Mostly he has wrestled with bureaucracy which is often dumb and slow, but not vindictive like most politicians.

The saddest part of all of this is that if Bezos had even half a brain and a semi-functioning company, he could easily swoop in and steal the thunder out from under SX. Cozy up with a quick white house lunch, say you want new contracts to replace ComCrew & cargo, and that you’ll do your blue moon HLS for artemis III instead of starship.
But Bozos sat on his little roided-out ass for damn dear twenty years not going anything and because of that he essentially has no cards to play with right now.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1940028657625391535

>>16711112

>>16712324
BO tried poaching Shotwell and she laughed in their face but now I’m wondering if she is considering it. She could turn them around and have them designing a real starship competitor in 4 years

>>16712334
lmao

>>16712335
Under the assumption she cleans house and fires all the faggot middle-managers and do-nothings and brings SX workforce with her

>>16712291
When Nick fucking Land is calling you nutty.....

>>16712334
She's not a designer, she liases with government

>>16712339
thats retarded

>>16712343
And how do you think our government feels about SpaceX right about now? Hint: they by and large don’t give a shit about access to space or starlink. Their mouths are starting to water at the idea of regulation

>>16712326
What a fucking gay year for spaceflight this has been

>>16712341
https://x.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1939785972679336143

>>16712348
truly
>>16712351
kek

I miss starship hop /sfg/. more comfy times.

>Team Trump turning on musk
/sfg/ Civil War Arc. Cinema.

>>16712324
Jeff is too busy cooming in, on and around his sex doll wife to focus on space

>>16712347
Space Force got a big budget increase and that depend on access to space

>>16712353
The world was at peace. Liberals were crying and hiding indoors, no traffic on the roads for like 2 years. The explosions were fun and exhilarating but also there was apparent progress with each hop.

>>16712356
>sex doll wife
She looks like a fucking demon, and not the good semen kind

>>16712347
Starlink is an essential to the US military

>>16712353
In those days we watched great victories. We felt in that moment we would all see mega mars colonies. Now we know we shall not see LEO.

Watch for Elon to post
>There's little reason to go beyond LEO without fixing the government first

>>16712354
orbiter works on first try.
starship flaps burning barely makes it few out of many tries.

>>16712353
Thank you for your comment

>>16712360
I meant the cheapo blowup type

>>16712363
He’s basically already insinuated that a couple of times over the last two months. If he outright says it then we might all as well die an hero.
Imagine working at Starbase and realizing your mega mars ship is now being diminished to an LEO school bus. No wonder everyone is demoralized down there right now.

>>16712369
If it actually works as a reliable cheap LEO bus it could still be very useful for constructing serious Mars ships

>>16712351
NRx?

So does musk have an ulterior motive here, or is this really just simply autism hyperfixation and he thinks the deficit will lead to some sort of bubble pop where we all get catapulted into the stone age and his businesses go bankrupt

>>16712369
>>16712372
Its all very premature. SS is not yet an operational vehicle and has a long way to go. Pouting about your ultimate plans is gay at this stage of the game.

>>16712373
Dont worry about it, you'd never pass the phenotype inspection

>>16710797
Since a little before Hopper flew, at least.
>>16712353
I wanted to see Mars but I guess civil unrest and whatnot is cool too

>>16712374
His whole existence is autism fixation
For a while that was space and it paid off with Falcon 9 and Dragon but that's as far as it's going to go. He's moved onto another hyperfixation now - the deficit.

>>16712373
Neo-reactionary, aka dark enlightenment.
Democracy is gay and doesn’t work because the people are retarded, the french revolution did more bad than good, its basically all the bros who were libertarians but then got blackpilled and realized lolbertarianism is fanciful and doesn’t work, and that the world needs more authoritarianism push against woke liberal fags and babysit the masses (which is true)

>>16712380
I hate authoritarian strongmen AND the tyranny of the masses. There's got to be a better way

>>16712374
A bankruptcy in America would turn the world GDP over and cause a credit liquidity crisis like never before, world nations would probably have to come together and rewrite the rules of the trade.. again (has happened like three times before don't worry about it).
Either way you can expect at most a depression that lasts a decade or a recession that only lasts a few years
I think he's right to be concerned as ultimately starlink is not vital for people's survival, and I think we might see that kind of desperation from people going as far as gutting their internet to save a few pennies
I think SpaceX would ultimately survive, even without cutting any jobs, however their plans for expansion would be cut and while Starship will still happen, it will be at significantly lower models produced a year compared to the current plans
That's my two cents about it anyway

>>16712385
trying to build a mars base during a 10 year depression would certainly be something lmao

>>16712383
It’s less about wanting more authoritarianism as a solution, and more about recognizing that our modern liberal democracy has inadvertently LEAD to authoritarian rule-makers hell bent on making life worse under the guise of egalitarianism and equality. The libertarian bros realized by sitting back and saying
>ehhh do whatever you want so long as it doesn’t affect me
does indeed affect you, negatively, because your fellow man will exercise authority against you as soon as he is given power

Apologize.

>>16712391
piece of shit abomination

>>16712385
While I agree with you, I also think any collapse is so far removed from our lifetimes that it ultimately doesn’t matter to address at this point. Is this hypocritical? Yes. Is this the same line of argument the baby boomers made that inadvertently destroyed society? Yeah. But the deficit won’t be a problem for our children or our children’s children or their children. Possibly even longer.
The difference is that the boomers destroyed society for the immediate next generation. Meanwhile the USA can do as it pleases without care in the world for gold reserves or fiat speculation so long as russia and china and europe can’t raise an army to rival the grand geopolitical landscape that the USA molds, which will never happen because all are infinitely more retarded and less capable than the nation of stars and bars

>>16712024
>launching Golden Dome
as irrelevant as launching Orion. The point is to shovel money at the military industrial complex, not to actually put the system into place. Does no one remember Reagan's Star Wars initiative?

>>16712395
why do you think its so far in the future? the interest is already about 1/8 and depending on what happens to growth, that might accelerate pretty quickly
it might happen relatively soon

>>16712389
Its hardly a new idea
>"Totalitarian democracy," a term coined by historian J.L. Talmon, describes a political system that combines the rhetoric of popular sovereignty and the methods of totalitarianism. It's a concept that explores how, in the 18th century, some thinkers began to believe that true freedom could only be achieved through the pursuit of a collective, pre-defined purpose. This ideology, according to Talmon, could lead to a system where the state, claiming to represent the "general will," eliminates individual liberties in the name of a higher, often utopian, goal
Talmon was writing in 1952

>>16712398
The point of SDI was to mitigate or even eliminate the threat vector of ICBMs.

>>16712357
>>16712361
And? They’ll get what they want. You can strangle SX with all the regulations you want, and then offer to ease off just a little for launch access and starshield. Also golden dome is simply for congressional district jobs more than anything so don’t bring that up like some sort of gotcha

>>16712396
Women have the worst judgement on when to stop with the knife considering their looks are their ticket

>>16712400
Because what happened to us in 2008 should have been a death kneel but we figured out how to pad ourselves and wiggle out of anything and because of that any speculation I previously had has now been evaporated. You just need to make ze calls and find a scapegoat and demand the prices are right and you win. It’s not fair play but it works, apparently

>>16712401
Isn’t this just how modern China works? lol

>>16712298
has there ever been another era of history where the rich and powerful were slinging shit at each other like this?

>>16712409
but that had nothing to do with US federal debt, what are you talking about nigga

>>16712414
Nigger it’s called the roman fucking empire, did you even try paying attention in class?

>>16712414
probably plenty

https://x.com/rookisaacman/status/1940045268793069660

>>16712412
Kind of but mapping Western politics on them has to take in account their ancient Confucian tradition i.e. cultivated gentlemen-scholars guide everything and plebs have little to no input

>>16712415
Not a direct cause, no. But my point is that at the time the interests rates were low to try and stimulate an economy with an already-growing deficit leading to insanely risky borrowing. Bubble bursts. That high deficit then should have severely restricted fiscal flexibility to fund bailouts and stimulus relief, but guess what? The solution ended up being ignoring the deficit and just ballooning it even further into oblivion. And everyone got out of that financial crisis. If we gave a shit about the deficit then, it would have probably turned in to the ‘greater depression’. But a bunch of sheisty economists realized you can simply ignore the deficit.
Why musk gives a shit about it, I haven’t a clue. Just ignore it and go to mars. Let earth print more and more money and IF that bubble pops (yes it will be bad, very bad) you have at least already established off-world colonies with some sort of economic independencies. You still need supplies from earth and people might cut their starlink internet bill during a depression but there are other ways to generate money for the colonies.
The deficit is a big scary number but it’s kind of just the wizard of oz, smoke and mirrors, if you’re jewish enough to ignore it

>>16712293
I call it the Great Filter

>>16712426
the deficit was not and is not still at the level where borrowing becomes impossible
you can ignore the deficit until you can't because no-one will lend you any more money

>>16712419
Why don't they create a consortium to build infrastructure? Use of DoD launch facilities that are underutilized is fine but what that tweet mostly complains about are things that industry should be able to support on their own. If the government is going full cost recovery, why even have the government involved in the first place, especially for things like wind tunnels?

>>16712326
>Bannon is going back to prison
For what? They got him on a technicality last time. Anyway, cant you all see that Musk is king?

>>16712429
Okay but that limit is simply an arbitrary point that panic-ridden speculators are crying will come “one day”. No one can tell me when. So i’ll keep borrowing until then, because I know you’re going to keep dishing it out regardless if the deficit is $1 or $1 mil or $1 tril or $1 quadrilliongazillionbrazillion

>>16712434
‘Lon actually thought he would be ruling for 4 years as co-regent, cutting the government down to bare bones and fixing the deficit [math]\unicode{x1F602}[/math]

>>16711106
Dibs

Digits confirm

>>16712402
the selling point, yes. Now show me any of those systems that were actually put in place after billions were spent.

>>16712436
interest is 1/8 now, so you are borrowing just to pay earlier loans
the reason why people have increasingly started talking about it now is that the tipping point might be pretty close
the fact you talk about dollar values means you don't understand it, its about income(depends on growth) vs the deficit
people will borrow but the minute it starts looking like the US can't pay back, the borrowing will stop
its not some linear thing that gradually gets worse
to the outside it seems like nothing is wrong and suddenly you are completely fucked

>>16712417
heh, I wasn't thinking that far back, but you're right. Let's see, what stage of Roman empire are we at now...?

>bill passes, Elon spergs out
>bill doesn't pass, Trump fucks over Elon, Elon spergs out
Win, win.

It's fun watching Elon get bodied by Trump. He better learn to be a good boy! This is just like when Trump beyrayed Roy Cohn. Do you know how this story ends? Musk will be humiliated then die of AIDS

>>16712396
She was pretty, why would she do that to herself? Now she looks like a monster.

>>16712449
>bill passes, elon spergs out, country is one step into the coffin

>>16712295
It kinda does. I think you seriously underestimate the amount of time and money that will be needed to establish a Mars colony, even if Starship works perfectly. There is no business case for a Mars colony, so the only way a Mars colony actually happens is if the American (or Chinese) government funds it as part of a space race lasting decades and decades. Such a space race can't happen if the US bankrupts itself by spending on other things.

>>16712448
Fools and normies will say julius caesar; but knowers will say we are currently at the Marcus Licinius Crassus era, fall of the late roman republic

>>16712443
SDI was cancelled by Congress in 1992 because the USSR had de-constituted itself.

What are the odds of the Big Beautiful bill passing anyway? I heard that it's having some significant pushback

>>16712459
Its going to pass, the question is how shit is it going to be in the end.

>wake up
>it somehow got worse
elon is going to be deported
spacex is going to be nationalized
its actually over

>>16712444
>>16712454
Look I’m of the opinion that it can be ignored, but I get it. Should have ripped the band-aid off and just suffered for 10 years a decade ago. And in the future we might look back and say yeah should have just done it during covid or when musk was talkin about it. But you can’t convince the western (really, global) economy to purposefully suffer to try and avoid future suffering they don’t even see as happening. Only oldschool catholics see light in mortification. Everyone else wants the world to keep spinning while ignoring the elephant in the room.
I’m just banking on the fact that the bubble burst won’t be in my life time, as is everyone else

>>16712462
Maybe after the collapse and reformation of the US we can get a real space program again.

>>16712461
When it is going to be passed?

>>16712466
2 weeks

What a horrible day to have consciousness

>>16712463
massive growth (something like 5% per year) might be enough to fix it, but this is contingent upon AI enabled productivity etc boosts
and what caused this latest spergout? making that AI growth much more difficulty to achieve due to hamstringing the growth of power from renewables, mainly solar
the bill not only cuts the subsidies of solar projects which are already underway, it adds extra taxes on top of it which makes them overall 50-80% more expensive than before and I think there might even be some kind of red tape slowing things down even more

so you increase the deficit massively and then you hinder the only realistic way to help you grow out of it

>>16712455
I say Lucius Tarquinius Superbus era

>>16712472
Trump is retarded for doing what he is doing, especially the restrictions you have listed. Elon is retarded for not trying to play 4D grassroots chess since last november trying to make MAGA aware of the problem since the get-go and is now simply trying to primary party dissidents that will hand wins to democrats who are arguably even worse.
I don’t want to live in an “AI optimized” economy either.
Everything is gay and soulless and I get why NRx doomers would rather just live life as a serf in a field.

https://x.com/cb_doge/status/1940063077229301948

>>16712478
Hello Saturnposter

Just erase several digits from the national debt overnight and pretend it was always that low.
If anyone says anything, call them a terrorist and deploy drones to erase them.

>>16712480
Unironically this

>>16712479
this >>16712298 is not the same interview as this>>16712478

>>16712480
>call the teacher pensions fund terrorists
lmao

https://x.com/FoxNews/status/1940041491725926473

>>16712485
Who? Never heard of that guy.

It was the best of times. It was the worse of times. Just kidding, it’s fucking dogshit awful and there are no silver linings.

>>16712455
absolutely true. So many parallels between Crassus and Trump.

Why cant he just SHUT HIS FAT FUCKING GOB

>>16712374
He's a retard. He has factories in other countries, and even then most of his wealth is in assets. Whatever rearranging a default would set off would basically not affect him.

>>16712391
Keeping the humans pilots alive was the bare minimum. The goal was to make access to LEO cheaper. It failed utterly. More than that, it set spaceflight back several decades. Even if the starship program were dissolved tomorrow, it will have been more of a success than the shuttle.

>>16712480
Now you know why they keep trying to privatize social security, because deposits are recorded as debts

>>16712486
Gay guy with an adopted son. What the fuck happened to the Republicans

>>16712508
>Even if the starship program were dissolved tomorrow
Nonzero chance of this actually happening

>>16712513
Hmm if only there were a subversive group of people who are directly to blame for this…

>>16712514
>2046
>incoming admin announces new initiative to return Americans to the moon for the first time in 74 years
>planned 3-day mission by 2055

>>16712516
Why bother with this when there are problems to fix here on earth? let’s build the coalition. Kek you frens later!

>>16712513
who worked for soros

>>16710810
It's never been more over.

>>16712478
As if DOGE has saved a single fucking cent.

Oh to have the simple life of a guy on dvach just excited about the upcoming progress launch and a new photo of jessie anderson

The doomerism is this thread is a chink psyop. America might have some issues, but they are minor compared to China. China is facing total demographic and economical collapse, mass famine and civil conflict that will totally tear the country apart. China won't even exist past 2030. Some minor political splats between Trump and Elon, or a moderate increase in debt is nothing

>>16712535
I like to imagine the guy that actually believes this and isn't trolling

>>16712535
Who are you talking to? Who brought up the chinese? Fucking kys fag, we are lamenting domestic problems that hamper american mars and lunar initiatives. We don’t give a fuck if china perishes or lasts another 1,000 years.

>>16712537
China is beyond fucked mate.

>>16712538
Once China is gone, there's nothing really stopping total American dominance of space, even with major domestic issues . Russia is done. Europe and Japan have stagnated hard. China will cease to exist within 2-5 years. Only India poses a threat long term.

https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1940079817686413712

>>16712541
sorry for the mean reply I’m not the same person I was five minutes ago

>>16712544
So it's more or less official now?

>>16712548
no, it has to go back to congress for a vote

>>16712548
The House and Senate versions still have differences, such as the Senate version banning Medicaid paying for transgender transition surgeries and hormones for children for the next year while the House version bans such payments for the next decade. The Senate version has work requirements for those without children, the House version has work requirements for those without children under 14. It's lots of little things that need to be ironed out but the major items are agreed upon.

>>16712549
Oh. Who cares, it's never getting pass congress

>>16712556
it already did once

>>16712539
They aren't a market economy. It doesn't matter what happens on a spreadsheet

>>16712539
lies...

>>16712568
Their coming mass famine, civil conflict and demographic collapse doesn't give a shit about their command economy. They can't magic food out of thin air, or magic up tens of millions of young workers a year.

>>16712539
>mate
Australian? What, so you're personally coping about needing to deal with chinks all the time by pretending their country will collapse?

>>16712572
I'm not coping, nor do I need to pretend. Time is on my side, in 2 years China will be a failed state. And by 2030, they would cease to exist as a nation.

>>16712574
China requires google maps to rearrange their satellite data. Go check yourself. The pictures don't match the roads. The dam is not going to fail.

>>16712575
The dam almost failed during the megafloods of 2020. China is one more bad flood away from half a billion dead

>>16712575
>the da is not going to fail
Not with that attitude

>>16712576
Didn't you post a CIA source the other day? I have no reason to believe a single word you say

>>16712578
that gif is wrong, the bomb didn't detonate at the bottom of the dam

>>16712578

>>16712583
Venus atmosphere is a glowstick?

>>16712587
with lightning everywhere and life itself floating at the top, yes

>>16712014
/sfg/ - sperg fights general

>>16712414
Obviously nigger. It's just that we now live in a time where anything anyone does is recorded and archived and witnessed by half the globe.

>>16712583
I wonder what it looks like now. Someone should send a probe to look at it.

>>16712595
That’s the plan— aaaaaand nevermind, cancelled.

>>16712478
i'm literally shaking

>>16712541
Liberalism and space exploration are incompatible. Slay that beast and you may have a chance. Until then, you can only watch as China shoots for the stars.

>>16712599
What -ism is compatable with space travel, then?

Is there any mission as pitiful as Rosalind Franklin? Just reading about it makes me ashamed to be a part of the European continent.

>>16712600
Authoritarianism.

>>16712601
As much as I like dunking on euros (and believe me, there’s plenty of content) I just want to remind you that NASA downselected to Lucy; a boring ass motherfucking stupid asteroid mission. Many based proposals were thrown out. Missions to venus, missions to neptune, to uranus, to icy moon. For another fucking asteroid probe that does nothing but observe

>>16712605
I legitimately cannot understand the interest in asteroid missions. Oh wow, a tiny hunk of metal/rocks/ice. I thought I was autistic wanting to study other planets up close, but asteroid autism is on another level. Who the actual fuck gives asteroids a higher priority than interplanetary missions?

>>16712610
I really don’t get it. Lucy is a waste of resources

>>16712605
>cost: $560 million USD
WHAT THE FUCK

Breathtaking admission, holy shit

>>16712617
>Company with chronic major setbacks might win against SpaceX here, barring a major setback
Wow this race is so close, wake me up when the tortoise learns it actually has to try walking to compete the fable and beat the hare

>>16712617
Well starship certainly won't be man-rated in any forseeable future. SpaceX should pivot to some super dragon proposal

>>16712617
I remember when Eric Berger was so confident that Starship would carry Astronauts to the Moon by 2028. That was just two years ago. How fast the turn tables.

>>16712621
Four disastrous failures in a row will do that to ya. Also the fact that you can always try to factor in elon time, but not a parlay into politics and a complete dismissal of any interest in mars or short-term starship success. ‘Lon toyed with the idea of not even giving a shit about HLS. And berger’s industry insiders say morale at Starbase is at an all-time low.
Grim, I say.

>>16712617
>Combs being intellectually dishonest

A day that ends with y.

https://theeyewall.com/
>This budget being sent to Congress is a disrespectful slap in the face to all those efforts and will allow America to abdicate the role of dominance in this space to another nation (more than likely China).
>The only logical reason one would propose this budget is if they had an agenda that wants to end American dominance in this space or wants to willfully make Americans less safe and informed.
Matt Lanza’s spat on the proposed NOAA budget and ceding to China. He’s kind of a libtard so take it with a grain of salt but it’s interesting nonetheless
(if you don’t know who this is, he and eric berger run space city weather / the eyewall for houston/gulf weather tracking)

>>16712617
New Glenn only launched once and there's no sign of any future launch.

>>16712627
seems to get a bunch of engagement, I wonder how much X pays him monthly

>>16712599
>Liberalism is a political philosophy centered on the idea of individual liberty and limited government
Like Elon using his individual liberty to build rockets to sell internet to build a Mars city, with the limited government not throttling launches? Yes, we should get rid of that immediately for a more authoritarian system where a temperamental new york queen can fuck it all up on a whim

>>16712645
Jewish (disingenuous) response

>>16712645
You’re not convincing anyone here that liberalism is good. Gb2r

>>16712610
People who believe the mining meme.

>>16712645

>>16712634
gradatim gradociter

>>16712645
current day liberalism is pretty far from that
or maybe there aren't really many classical liberals around these days

>>16712617
/sfg/ I want my apology.

I was here calling this shit 2+ years ago and you retards were glazing Musk like crazy at the time. It was obvious from the start. Starship is a MUCH harder challenge than blue moon, by an 'order of magnitude' as old Musko would say.

Remember how optimistic we were 7 months ago?

>>16712665
I'd concede to using a different word. Authoritarianism in itself has already been proven ineffective. Collaboration between people requires trust, you can't force it on any scale and expect good results. Tranny liberals and liberalism in general seem to have separated somewhat while still using the same word.