Thread 96242992

Internet drama aside, Trench Crusade looked so fucking cool.

>>96242992 (OP)
The drama really was just some dudes wanting attention, if you paid attention to it, you got dupped by an idiot.

>>96242992 (OP)
>internet drama aside
It’s hilarious how people are still seething over it to this day

>>96243069
This.
It was an remains stupid, and most people do not even know what it was actually about.
All over an indie skirmish game that hasn't even released it's first book.

It insists upon itself

>>96242992 (OP)
Did it have anything going for it apart from over the top artwork?

>>96242992 (OP)
Based.

>>96242992 (OP)
Internet drama aside, I do not like the art. It’s not bad and it fits the setting, but it’s not good. Like its trying to hard yo be bloody and gritty. It has way too much gore and maws and flesh everywhere. That’s fine in moderation but it becomes cheap when half the designs are covered in it.
I’d heard Mike Franchina uses AI to assist with his art and I don’t think that’s true but it explains the feeling I get from his designs.

>>96242992 (OP)
Just looked like less capable artists copying Keith Thompson.

>>96242992 (OP)
>looked so fucking cool
it looks forced and contrived

>>96243463
>Keith Thompson
I was thinking this was a Keith thing that got simplified for the miniatures. That explains why everything looked so off.

>>96242992 (OP)
That's the big twist. The art was created way before and to be stand alone then some grifters came along, adopted the art for a shitty warhammer knock off while pissing off their fan base and proving they know jack about world building.

>>96243129
No, it was basically just a set of artwork that got popular and that is all it ever was

>miniature-agnostic game
>highly detailed art of hyper-specific characters so you'll never kitbash anything close
Does this piss anyone else off?

>>96242992 (OP)
>>96243069
>>96243078
>>96243091
What even was the drama about? I wasn't really paying attention to it.

>>96244882
It's your typical lefties telling white people to fuck off.

>>96244882
A youtube creator got banned from a fan discord for insisting on his political rants, then sent his minions out to shitpost.
That is literally all it is.

>>96242992 (OP)
/tg/ trench crusade discourse was always just this

>>96244905
>Ask questions with a genuine interest in the setting and topic
>Get kicked
>Tell everyone about exactly what happened why they are no longer in the discord
>Lefties proceed to crate a false narrative to justify their shitty behavior
don't (you) me.

>>96244905
Here you can see the lying jew performing his daily rituals

>>96244909
>historical revisionism already being deployed
Are you a feminist? Going to complain about credit cards next?
You know what, I'll give you a chance.
Post screencaps from the discord proving your assertion.

>>96244915
I already told you don't (you) me. You are already proving yourself to be a dishonest little shit by accusing others of what you really are.

>>96242992 (OP)
This shit looks like AI. Totally sovlless

>>96244907
It's really not cool at all. Everything about it reeks of trying too hard.

>>96244922
>makes an ahistorical assertion to look like the good goy
Still waiting for proof, anon.
I know it will never come, but shitposters deserve to be mocked wherever you find them.
Also
>attempts a Kafka trap to avoid having to prove their statement

>>96244943
Not him but it happened to me too. Asked a question about why the Templars were the ones who opened the portal to hell since they didn't exist then - they were historically formed after the First Crusade, to guard pilgrim routes established by the First Crusade, so it really makes no sense for them to exist before. Got called a chud and told I wasn't welcome. Wanted to also ask why the PRINCipality of Antioch was led by a duke because maybe there was some lore I missed but after the response it really killed enthusiasm for the setting.

Like I honestly think this is unique to the TC fanbase. If this was 40k there would be speculation and theorising e.g. maybe the records kept were wrong, the church changed the records to hide a darker secret, etc. But the TC fanbase takes every question as an attack on the setting.

>>96245097
Oh? So link the discord, then. Or post caps of the conversation.
You won't, and at least one of us knows why.

>>96242992 (OP)
I filtered out the drama because it's the usual suspects getting their knickers in a twist.

That being said this is not really that appealing. I would prefer to just play a World War One game.

As for he artwork my tastes are cyclical, I feel like this stuff is like heavy metal, high impact on first encounter with diminishing returns on reflection.

I don't give a shit about the Nazi shit, I care that I missed the Kickstarter and it honestly just lost me when people started making homebrew factions and they had to add ottomans into it and just frankly added too much detail to the lore in general. It should have stayed vague IMHO. Just the art and minis and maybe some flavortexts. I know that would never happen but I wish it did.

>>96242992 (OP)
I liked a few years ago when it wasn't a game yet and was just pictures and I would come into threads to talk shit and people would nuke their own threads trying to tell me to stop.
Haven't been able to do that since then.

>>96245150
>they had to add ottomans into it
The problem is?

The visuals are all a bit samey. But also inconsistent? I don't know how to describe it. They're repetitive in their color and mood and atmosphere being turbo-bleak, but the designs themselves don't seem to follow much of a clear ruleset. All the greatest aesthetic franchises have hard, clear rules to follow that help to set them apart from everything else. Like, Star Trek starships have two nacelles that have to be in direct visual line of sight of each other, and this rule is universal across Federation ships except for the ones that it isn't universal for.
Trench Crusade looks unironically like people took a bunch of random images a guy drew and threw them together into vague categories of factions and lore. probably because that's exactly what happened

>>96245129
Why would he bother logging back into discord and screenshotting a convo (can you even log back into a server if you've been kicked?) just to prove himself to you, a literal nobody?
Why should he care whether you believe him or not? I know I fucking wouldn't.

>>96245237
>can you even log back into a server if you've been kicked?
No, you can't. And even if he could you and I both know he is either going to take things out of context or make more dishonest arguments while playing stupid.

>>96245129
>>96245298
Yeah, the reason why I can't post screenshots is because I don't care about internet drama, oneupping or owning nerds on whatever spectrum, I just wanted a lore clarification. That being said if you could explain those lore queries I'd gladly give the setting another chance. Somehow I doubt you will.

Incidentally though you're acting superdefensively just like how I described.

>>96242992 (OP)
the art looked cool, the game looked mid as fuck

>>96245237
Liars deserved to be pointed out and mocked.
The discord server that started all of this was a FAN discord, not the official one, and shut down not too long after the e-celeb started started sending his 'fans' to raid it.
I had said before no one knows what actually happened, and everyone is lying about it constantly for good boy points on 4chan.

>>96243394
The early TC art, with the original minis set before they started "world building" and making a game was much better.

>>96244882
the internet as a whole is forgetting that you're not supposed to feed the trolls

>>96246002
>Requests impossible information to get
>Get told said information to get is impossible
>Get accused of lying
>Sure, nobody knows what happened but your story isn't valid but mine is!
you are a joke.

>>96245097
I could be wrong about this but historically, weren't the templars wiped out/hunted down by I wanna say the king of France but again, could be wrong cuz he wanted their stuff, so he made up some story about how the templars were actually pagan devil worshippers having orgies and all manner of sin going on in their palace? It's probably just the Assassins Creed thing all over, they went with the Templars because 1. their name sounds cool and 2. there's some history behind them supposedly doing all kinds of potential devil worship/esotericism, again it's been ages since I read about them so I could be wrong about the reason for their persecution/wether they actually were or weren't doing weird shit in their fortresses

>>96245298
>Even if he did I'd argue it doesn't count anyways and isn't good enough for my ever-shifting proof standards
Lmao, this is why I stopped arguing. You people are evil, enjoy all the things you love dying.

Trenches are fucking awesome war setting for any fantasy! TC did a bit too much tho, they wanted to be like the new Warhammer, would be much better if they stayed grimdarker

>>96242992 (OP)
It looks cool until you notice that their artists were so shit they couldn't even keep the copy words on the guy's skin, let alone texture it properly.
Trench Crusade is just art that looks good as a thumbnail and when you don't think about it for more than 2-3 seconds. Perfect for a tiktok audience. Except the tiktok audience doesn't buy games.

>>96246002
Assuming it even happened as there doesn't seem to be any screenshots of the Discord raid anyways.

>>96242992 (OP)
wow that text overlay is really lazy

>>96245097
You had it coming you feminist

>>96242992 (OP)
>internet drama
So nothing that affects me or my group or my table. Yeah, easy enough to ignore.

>buh buh buh I was just asking an innocent question!
>the question: "Why so many nigger jew kikes spic nigger nigger?

Same energy as 'the teacher just hates me' kids who wouldn't shut the fuck up and got in trouble then acted like they have no idea why.

I don't pay much attention to the behind the scenes stuff so here's my outsider take on Trench Crusade:
Some cool art, a few cool models. Factions lack cohesion and an aesthetic that carries through well. Felt like turnip28 where a small group was pushing it heavily but a passing fad without longevity. Also what little lore I read reminded me of Hellgate London the failed video game from the Diablo II devs

>>96246398
According to TC lore the Knights Templar opened the portal to hell right after the First Crusade took Jerusalem. Which clashes because the Knights Templar were founded after the First Crusade, all the stuff with Philip IV took place centuries after. So unless the Knights Templar can time travel the lore has a hole. Like they can't exist before the First Crusade because their raison detre was created by the success of the First Crusade.

I agree it was 99% they wanted a cool sounding name but even AC puts in the effort to at least make their lore fit the history of the historical fantasy they wrote. Like I wasn't even expecting a thought out answer, like if it was "yeah, it's a plot hole" or "the church purposely rewrote it to blame the Templars maybe" or whatever then sure. But the replies that followed were extremely obnoxious. I bet you if you go ask why there are jets in 1914 the fanbase will sling abuse in your direction.

Honestly I wanted to like the setting so much but the fanbase is intolerable and the lore is poorly researched historically. In historical alt history ffs

>>96245097
I had a similar experience when asking how muslims and jews work in setting.

>>96246626
There is also some fluff about the hell faction forcing people to sin and that is how they get some of their forces.
Forgetting that the entire point of a sin is that it must be done willing, it is the reason why we have free will. There is no sin if you are coerced or forced to do it.

>>96244882
Arch getting butthurt he can't rape black babies.

>>96246445
>enjoy all the things you love dying.
lmao, thats exactly what you freaks do all the time, then you sperg out and blame le evil right wingers.

Is le tradcath LARP really that strong these days people are really moaning about Satanism in games?

>>96244882
Bunch of people got banned in a discord for bringing up gays.
Also to remember this discord wasn't even owned by the guys who created TC at all, so it was just people shitting up a 3rd party discord. At best the discord might've been affiliated OR not, with the creators but I am not sure.
Since you know TC is a christian based wargame setting, so obviously people in the discord went around "Btw, fags do get sent to hell in this setting, right?".
Obviously this behaviour is not well received by most people, especially on discords. The guys get banned from the discord, which heats things up more.
Then when more people hear that "they banned us questioning fags" it obviously caused lot of bad faith actors to come into the discord as well.

Then it escalates into the discord (still not owned by the TC guys) banning anyone who brings up WW1 and WW2 because the mods were tired of the shit.

All in all, the whole fucking thing was stupid. Even here on /tg/ people were butthurt over the bans.
But how I view this is dumbasses going into person's house, who have their own rules that they uphold, dumbasses break the rules, get kicked out for it, dumbasses proceed to mope bitch how they were kicked out "for no reason".
And to this day many gripe about how the TC devs are woke and how the game is woke or whatever.

>>96242992 (OP)
I don't know or care what the drama even is, but yes the artwork is cool. I learned maybe a little too late not to buy table/video games based on artwork though.

>>96246626
>According to TC lore the Knights Templar opened the portal to hell right after the First Crusade took Jerusalem. Which clashes because the Knights Templar were founded after the First Crusade
Have you considered that the timeline in TC is not the same as ours and events are different?
Like the church in TC already has a fucking space program by 1910s while IRL the NASA space program started in 1958.

>shitty models, complete with resin traps
>"nothing is canon" mindset from the start
>"humanity is barely hanging on!" featuring a map with demons pushed away and isolated
lies upon mistakes piled into shit. anyone defending the series is coping over being conned.

but the art does look cool.

>>96248903
>>"humanity is barely hanging on!" featuring a map with demons pushed away and isolated
The demons aren't really isolated or contained. The black spots on the map is just places that were the heretics have a dominant presence where they also launch raids and attacks constantly.
Also this is just a map of Europe and bits of north Africa and bits of Middle-East.
There is no information about rest of the world in this. Like Siberia could very well be a completely blasted shithole taken over the demons. Same goes for the Americas.

I'm just tired of grimdark settings

40k fills that space completely and then some, and 40k is retarded. I no longer have any interest in any setting about some hopeless apocalyptic battle. I'm tired of artists who sprinkle christian aestheticism over war imagery and then act like they're invented fire. Your shit is overplayed, boring, and fucking depressing.

>>96248951
>Siberia could very well be a completely blasted shithole taken over the demons
It's right there on the map and very much not marked as demonic
Cope harder
It becomes even more laughable once you realize that hundreds of years have passed since demons were let loose.
Islamic conquests, Alexander's campaign and Roman Empire all mog the forces of Hell so hard it's not even funny. Hell even WW1 western front was more dynamic than that at its lowest.

>>96249455
It keeps getting worse, becuase the demons are said to control the seas but Britan is looking awfully comfy there. Similarily the black sea and the mediterranean are somehow doing a great job at stopping the dominant naval power. I don't even dislike TC, I just wish the map felt more like the hellscape the series keeps promising,

>>96242992 (OP)
Sure, the sort of dark fanatical/fatalistic take on faith is one of few ideas that wasn't done to death.

>>96248868
The "you are ok with dragons in your setting so you must be ok with ok with a honda civic in the middle bronze age battle" argument is tiresome.
TC does not imply the history of the world was any different till the portal to hell event. But some how we have to accept every dumb shit because demons are real.
It's not my fault the guys making TC can't read a history book or 2 a second research in Wikipedia

>>96249519
There needs to be enough of christendom left to keep levying and feeding the armies. Hell can just handwave most of the logistics by sourcing bodies and gear from down below but the faithful need to stay at least somewhat grounded.

>>96242992 (OP)
What it should have been
>Mortheim, in the trenches, with units getting weirder the longer the campaign lasts
What they made it
>a clown show

>>96246626
I suppose it depends on how much you care about that stuff, personally I'm not too bothered by it as it imo doesn't affect later events/the actual tabletop
>>96248868
I can see where he's coming from, the problem is that when you are writing an alt history scenario like this, you need it to at least line up until the jumping off into the alternate timeline but here the timelines already don't match up for the sake of having a recognisable named organisation do a thing they can't do as they don't exist yet

>>96249652
Realism clearly wasn't their main goal as pointed out by others
>>96249519
>>96249609

but anyways
>needs to be enough of christendom left to keep levying and feeding the armies
This could be easily solved by simply condensing the timeline to like a couple decades or hundred years and instead show the early stages of the war. That would still lack the urgency
Regardless, even with the original schedule this map would have worked much better if at least one major european country people in the west care about was obliterated or turned or if there was at least some looming demonic horde coming over from beyond the Urals.
Or maybe even show on the map that despite being largely free from demons, Christian lands are ravaged and desolate by rigours of millennial warfare. It barely sell the grim nature of the setting and without the steamboats you could barely even tell at a glance it's not supposed to be medieval setting.
It shows plain and simple that people responsible for the setting, lack a clear vision for it.

>>96248822
>Btw, fags do get sent to hell in this setting, right?".
So do they?

>>96248868
Church space program started at Council of Constance 1415, unfortunately their first volunteer astronaut burned at launch.

>>96249763
> this map would have worked much better if at least one major european country people in the west care about was obliterated or turned
This is basically my opinion on Britain (I'm anon complaining about the hell navy). IRL I'm a protestant leaf with english/scottish ancestry, but even I think the british isles should have been lost long ago to the heretic forces giving us a "Church of Evil-land" or something.

>>96249763
Realism is never the issue anon. Is the concept of suspension of disbelieve.
For example the robots from the Terminators movies exist, those are not realistic but I can pretend they exist in this universe. Could even believe they are bullet proof due to some future bullshit material, but as soon some random kid manages to sucker punch it the illusion is broken. Maybe if the same kid was maybe pulling cables or hitting some joint with a crowbar I could suspend my disbelieve.
Something similar happens here. There are many small things that simply pull me out of the setting, one of them is the point when history change, how powerless hell seems to be and how superficial their understanding of Christian religion is.
The church having a space program is not an issue for example, but it just add question as to why the fuck they have one? Does hell have one too? Because in our timeline the space program was in response to a super power putting an objective that could do something in space. Since sending something up is not exactly hard, just ask the Italians during WWII

>>96248822
>banning anyone who brings up WW1
But why? WW2 is fine since all everyone talks about are Nazi or Russians online.

>>96249870
British ability to defend their isles is almost mythological, and not without reason - the last person to execute succesful opposed landing against them was Julius Caesar. TC tries to carry on that invincibility without understanding that to actually work it needs to be rooted in naval (and aerial) superiority.

Isnt there also issues with the people who bought into the Kickstarter not getting their minis?

>>96250060
The fuck you mean, Julius ran with his tail between his legs while Anglos, Saxons, Danish and Normans all invaded the isles successfully.

>>96250060
That's a good point and would make a great piece of the setting. I suppose I just wish the map reflected the reality that the rest of europe was fighting tooth and nail, maybe we'll get more of that as the setting matures.

>>96250156
Do you understand what "opposed landing" is?

>>96242992 (OP)
I still dont understand why "I dont want the game to be made in reaction to current politics" is woke. There is no woke stuff in the gmae itself and yet it is apparently woke, same people that call it as such defended Kingdom Come Deliverance and said "we need to embrace it instead of shun it, even when the creators openly call us grifters and nazis", Im looking at you Arch, I unsubbed over that hypocritic shite. I dont want ANY politics steering my hobbies you dopey cunt, I dont just want to be pandered to, I want ALL modern politics out of my hobbies, and thats what TC did, it told these people that wanted to use TC as part of the culture war to fuck off. Why is this woke now, I thought we wanted politics out of games not to larp like were traditional conservative christian prudes. Give me break man.

Game looks cool and has cool setting and doesnt have tranny flags being waved and alegories for Trump, America and modernism like immigration and racism. Thats exactly what I want more of.

>>96250210
Go ahead, give your definition that somehow manages to qualify old July but not any of the later, much more successful invaders.

>>96242992 (OP)
I got right winger fatigue tbqh

>>96244939
It really is cool at all. Everything about you reeks of not trying hard enough.

>>96248822
What relevance does gays have on the setting? Sounds like /pol/tards are crying about being inept social retards who think everything must be le heckin based fag haters

>>96242992 (OP)
It certainly looks cool, and some of the lore is fun, but I couldn't care less about playing it any more. The makers fucking suck and their fanbase are asslickers without exception.

>>96242992 (OP)
Arch is right, this shit is soi as fuck

>>96251553
>why would a group of people with a first class ticket to Hell be relevant to a setting where Hell has been waging a 1,000 year war on earth?

>>96245162
I dunno it just took me out of the aesthetic.

>>96242992 (OP)
It's funny that you use one of the designs I like the least from Trench Crusade. It aggressively looks like generic art station stuff. There's art that I like, but the dude just looks too much like a wannabe Souls enemy.
>>96243394
Honestly? I can definitely see the AI thing. I think some of the New Antioch designs are nice. But then you have busy stuff like this where they work backwards to haphazardly give lore.

>>96250060
>the last person to execute succesful opposed landing against them was Julius Caesar.
Wtf contrived stupid idea is this?
An "opposed" landing by the definition of landing troops while under fire from an enemy fleet has *always* been a fucking awful proposition for anyone. Its like a siege but if you can keep the other from getting in for 2 minutes he drowns.
There is no argument to justify saying the Brits have some miracle defense against naval invasions, they never did, they just acted well, most of the time. When they didn't, they got invaded, just like when William had their army defeated on his turf, *before* crossing over.
The entire history of the british isle's biopolitics is that of invading migrating waves.
> >>96242992 (OP)
>Trench Crusade looked so fucking cool.
Everything about the setting beside the art is of the lowest quality possible. The timeline is simply the most obvious flaw, but its pretty telling that Expedition Agartha's lore and alt-history holds itself better than that of TC. Both started at around the same time.

>>96249519
For me it's how hell itself is somehow bottlenecked so hard in this one spot between antioch and the wall despite being a stones throw away from the main hell portal.
In general the map has waaaaay too many random Christian enclaves and choke points because the writers seemingly didn't want to trigger any one nationality by making them loser mega jobbers that fell fully to hell (except Georgians lol).

>>96242992 (OP)
I don't play wargames but I can confirm trench crusade is cool af

>>96249797
Why would the Church even want a space program? That's retarded.

>"there are no good guys in this setting!"
>one side featuring FUCKING DEMONS
>"b-but the humans are just as bad!"
>ignoring the LITERAL DAMNED HORDE pushing humans to desperate measures
The art was so fucking cool, but the developers are so fucking stupid.

>>96254422
>Wtf contrived stupid idea is this?
It's factually true.
>An "opposed" landing by the definition of landing troops while under fire from an enemy fleet has *always* been a fucking awful proposition for anyone. Its like a siege but if you can keep the other from getting in for 2 minutes he drowns.
Sure, but it's also one of most glorified and embelished moments in recorded history of warfare.

>>96255965
Assuming that literal devil is inherently more evil than zealous fanatics is bigoted, or something along those lines.

>>96242992 (OP)
Style over substance. Yeah it looks cool but there is nothing under the fancy coat of paint

It's difficult to make a compelling setting about the war between God and the Devil for the heart and soul of Man when you don't believe in God, Satan, souls, or sin.

>>96248822
Not true, trenchies were upset cause people dared to speculate about what side the Aztecs would be on, then they blanket banned anyone they suspected of being a 40k fan, also that discord was endorsed by the creators as the official discord at the time

>>96256437
And was deleted when they saw how they were acting.

>>96248951
You're not allowed to talk about the rest of the world

Trench Crusade was made as an alternative game and setting for modeling hobbyists and casual gamers to avoid the increasing gacha and competitive mindset behind 40k. The problem is lore secondaries thought this meant the game was also for them and were quickly appalled when they found out few people cared about the actual fluff. So the warhammer lore secondaries went back to warhammer, as they always do

>>96256437
What is there to speculate? Aztecs where so fucking evil that the rest of the empire decided to ally with some random outsider at the first opportunity than defend the monsters that where the Aztecs.
Not even the Aztecs liked the Aztecs the civil war was going to happen with Spaniards or not the entire situation was not sustainable.

>>96254771
Yeah, seems like the Sultanate and the Antioch could close up that little passage. Maybe they're humoring hell and letting them keep it.

>>96256500
I know it's not meant to be a really indepth lore, but it's still fun.

>>96256993
You would have been banned for pointing that out, merely pointing out that the guys who would rip the hearts out of hundreds of people a day and torture children to make them cry as much as possible before sacrificing them might side with hell was the height of insensitivity to the trenchies and they banned hundreds of people over it

>>96253604
Except it's been argued that the verses in the bible are not talking about gays but rather male-on-male incest or straight-up anal sex (hetero or otherwise) all due to mistranslation.

>>96257043
Sure it has buddy

>>96257076
Thanks for your concession

>>96250221
That's not what happened though, people started speculating on what people's and nations might side with hell and the heretics and the leftists in the discord flipped out, started accusing people of being racist and then mass banned anyone they thought had differing political opinions to their own

>>96257100
>>96257038
it just occurred to me how "insensitive" it would be to put any of the native groups on the Christians side. They really are fucked if they ever try to move into NorthAmerica. On the other hand, this game could use a third team and pagans are an obvious choice.

>>96257123
>native
>christian
>north america
Killer Mormons?

>>96257123
>this game could use a third team and pagans are an obvious choice.
I thought that was the Muslims?

>>96257043
Source me up.

>>96257242
Speaking of, where are the jews?

>>96257038
I mean the only reason why the Aztecs never went to places like the modern Chile is because the place was worthless and the local mapuches where savages that almost drove to extinction the other people living in that area. They genocide so hard that the surviving people are still salty over that, more so than over the Spaniards. Since you know the Spaniards where not actively trying to destroy them
Personally I always find it funny when we tell the history of mapuches here about how the fought the Spaniards and its like dude. The Spaniards had a skeleton crew defending a place that no one wanted and anyone sent there was almost done as punishment. The Spaniards almost genocide the mapuches in Chile without trying. Because in Argentine they put a little effort into fighting the mapuches and the fuckers folded like wet paper.
The entire region was a cluster fuck of little wars and territorial conflicts with constant genociding each other till the Spaniards showed. One of the reason why no one could hold power for too long was because the terrain was a massive bitch to move around and the working animales the land had where basically memes compared to for example horses.

>>96257454
Legion of Moloch is already a thing.

>>96245172
>Trench Crusade looks unironically like people took a bunch of random images a guy drew and threw them together into vague categories of factions and lore. probably because that's exactly what happened

So, like every /tg/ project ever? Sounds like maximum SOVL.

>>96257787
You take that back. Car Lesbians is pure soul! Same with Everyone is John

>>96242992 (OP)
What confuses me is why leftoids who create societies meant to slander us also hate it when we like those same societies? Shouldn't that just confirm what they think about us in their eyes?

>>96257840
No one knows how you got the brain damage that makes you keep posting nogames retardation.

>>96245129
>caps of the conversation
not everyone is a retard faggot like you and takes pics of every message sent

>>96256157
What wargame has substance

>>96257285
Siker, Jeffrey S. Homosexuality and Religion
Dunn, James D.G. . The Theology of Paul the Apostle
The above mostly deal with the translation of the Bible in regards to homosexuality and how the verses can range from mutual masturbation to straight up anal sex
McNeill, John J.. The Church and the homosexual (deals with gay men being allowed into heaven)

>>96256500
except the STLs and models they released are absolute garbage. so-called primaries are getting grifted just as bad as lore secondaries

>>96248822
What IS woke?

>>96248822
Lmao fags butthurt as usual. Jesus, imagine getting fucked in the ass as a lifelong compulsion and then thinking other people are the problem.

>>96257043
>Except it's been argued that the verses in the bible are not talking about gays but rather male-on-male incest or straight-up anal sex (hetero or otherwise) all due to mistranslation.
The Bible uses two words: literally catamites and homosexuals. Men who get fucked in the ass and men who fuck in the ass. He was so thorough that you couldn't even try to weasel out of it if you wanted to. But I see the enemies of Christ are up to their old games of trying to question and twist God's word, as they have been doing since the garden of Eden.

>>96256437
This is the real reason of the massive bans.
A lot of the banned were Latin Americans who wanted to play against the hellish Aztecs and demons inspired by Indios religions, lol

>>96259080
>The Bible uses two words: literally catamites and homosexuals
Nope.avi. See >>96257940 and even a cursory glance at the homosexuality page in the bible wikipedia page offers more nuance than your schizo nonsense

>>96259194
Just a cursory glance at all the most educated men in the Catholic Church for the past 2000 years, literally humanity's top theologians, debunks your gay schizo nonsense.

>The whole world is wrong, trust me, Paul wasn't actually condemning sodomites like his people had been doing since Leviticus.

>>96259204
>Just a cursory glance at all the most educated men in the Catholic Church for the past 2000 years, literally humanity's top theologians, debunks your gay schizo nonsense.
What, like Saint Augustine? lmao

I know little about Trench Crusade, but I am sure there is a good reason Luce somehow stumbles into it

>>96259260
Read Leviticus, sodomite

>>96254771
>writers seemingly didn't want to trigger any one nationality
This is the major reason, they didn't want to piss off the PAYING nationallities, therefore most of Europe is untouched and looks like moder Europe.
To appeal US the firsts nationalities to have a army were Ireland, Scotland, Germany and Wakanda.

>>96259204
Gotta think that if the Catholics could find a loophole for buggering boys, they would've done it centuries ago. They certainly buggered the boys, allowed or not.

Not even that demon worshiping Henry VIII (who died insane and in total agony) had such views.

>>96259281
Most of Levitical law is not applicable to Christians, who have a new Covenant with God (the old is fulfilled by the coming of Jesus).

>>96259286
Statistically, jewish rabbis and secular public school teachers are more likely to bugger boys than catholic priests.

>>96259292
No doubt, but if your doctrine allowed it, you'd certainly say 'God lets us do this' like certain Mohammedian sects do, rather than saying 'I never did it.'

>>96259290
Wrong. Jesus said not one dot will be abolished. The word of God doesn't get abrogated.

>bububut why aren't you wearing blue tassels
This is a command to the Hebrews
>why are you eating pork?
Ritually unclean is not the same as sin
>then why isn't it okay to be gay
Because the prohibition against being gay is a moral commandment, not a dress code for Hebrews or hygiene standard for entering the temple (which no longer exists)

Care to explain why God demanded homosexuals be put to death in Levitucus but changed his mind? Hmm? God decided he was going to hop on the liberal postmodernist bandwagon? I think not.

>>96259292
>secular public school teachers
You might have point about rabbis, but comparing them to teachers is irrelevant because teachers don't claim to represent God. Of course a man of cloth is held to a much higher standard than a fucking public school teacher you nitwit.

>>96259307
This is a prime example of psychological projection. You literally cannot conceive of people being repulsed by sodomizing boys. Your theory of mind is that, because you like it but must keep it hidden, so must everyone else. This is why you hate Christianity, because you see it as some arbitrary tyranny standing between you and buggering small boys, which "obviously" everyone secretly wants to.

>>96258613
The STLs are for warhammer consoomers, not for 28 patricians

>>96259327
The Bible literally says to beware of false holy men, who are like "wolves in sheep's clothing". It's almost as if disgusting sodomites hide among the public and choose trusted positions where they have access to children. Shocking.

>>96259190
Yep anyone actually from latam would know Aztecs would be demonic.
Even today like this anon mention >>96257561, the natives that survive the Aztec or the Mapuches are still butt mad about how the latter hog the attention while they get scraps.
Hell the Spaniards usually took the Roman approach in the sense they simply turn their local gods into Saints, reason why we have have so many Saints and Virgins in here.
The Church itself was having some inner conflict about the natives because they saw misguided sheep, after all they had proper cities. Meanwhile the Spanish crown was treating them more like second class citizen than actual slaves.

>>96259315
No, I'm not arguing Christianity permits homosexuality, only that the argument from law for Jews is not a good argument for law for Christians.

>>96259388
Protip: Christians follow the same God as the Old Testament and the moral teachings still apply.

Fun fact: Hitler wanted a protestant church of Germany organized by the NSDAP, and wanted to strip out the Old Testament because it was "Jewish". He met such backlash from the churches that he completely cancelled all his plans. The old testament remains a central piece of Christianity.

>>96259336
>You literally cannot conceive of people being repulsed by sodomizing boys.
Are you illiterate? I'm agreeing with you. I point out that if there was some solid theological argument for sodomy in Christian canon, it would have been argued by experts (the clergy) long ago, who have a vested interest in behavior they were and continue to engage in (clandestine sodomy) being officially tolerated. People don't hide things they think they have every right to do.

>>96259292
Rabbis yes, school teachers no, priests practice buggary at a higher rate per capita

>>96244449
It's like a lame Chinese imitation of his stuff.

>>96259409
Okay, I see what you are saying. That if there were an argument for it then it would have been made in the past. I can see the logic in this: there are some religious sects (muslims, buddhists, jews) who do bugger small boys and make theological arguments that it is acceptable.

I don't think this was ever really widespread behavior among the clergy though, it has always been something which Christianity on a fundamental level has been radically opposed to. Many Christian martyrs were executed for criticizing royalty of sexual impropriety. There will always be an underground of homosexuality anywhere you go but this isn't and never will be an accepted part of Christianity.

>>96242992 (OP)
Is there a real reason people hate this game or are warhammerbros just mad because it has cooler art and is made by someone who's not a massive retard?

>>96256242
Truth from the mouth of frogs.

>>96256242
you hit the nail on the head.

>>96242992 (OP)
It looks cool even with the "drama".

>>96259465
I don't know about the game, but people seem to dislike the "official" community around it for being a ban-happy hugbox.

>>96259465
>>96259647
this, the community is toxic

>>96242992 (OP)
I'm too old to be impressed by any of it.

>>96244849
It was the ultimate decider for me, I was on the fence desu, between the mongs on both sides and the sloppy religious knowledge.

All the trench pilgrim aesthetic has been decided, gear too.

>>96259647
>ban-happy hugbox
TC had a small well-knit community up until culture freaks found it and started swarming in. Quite understandable. Plus its funny how the “gatekeep your hobbies” freaks got gatekept and are still assmad over it.

>>96259830
Gatekeep your anus, sodomite

>>96259875
Spoken like a true assrape victim

>>96259900
>my whole life revolves around who is the one getting fucked in the butt
How about sleeping with a woman if you can get one? Just be normal and life could be so easy.

>>96243463
>>96244449
>>96259448
Guys, you never made anything worth a damn. You don't have a skill, you don't have a taste, you don't even have enough of a consciousness.
Stop this nonsense, you can't judge the artistic merit of anything.

>>96257123
it's completely illogical for the setting to not be in NA.
The no colonialism thing is just some arbitrary rule invented by the woke progressive community.
A major reason to hate the TC community for stifling the setting.

>>96259943
Oh yes anon, I’m sure you know so much about sleeping with woman, so much so you spend all your time actually thinking about gay sex.

Rope

>>96242992 (OP)
It looks cool, the game itself is pretty fun, and the setting is even enjoyable if you head-canon some stuff to be less retarded. Mike Franchina's art is fun and grotesque in the best way and even without the setting, it makes great reference art for other things. It'll never hold a candle to the vision of something like Wayne Barlowe's Hell, but it doesn't have to.

>>96257454
They will have a faction or a sub faction of the Space Mar... Knightly Orders

>>96259983
Truth hurts, huh? >>96249000 This anon put it better than any of us, though. Not only is this slop derivative, it's just...tedious. Played out. Childish.

Boring.

>>96260124
Trench crusade would have been way cooler if it moved away from WWI and leaned more into esoteric hyper-war between the forces of humanity and the forces of hell.

I get that part of the appeal is muh mud a shit, but like I wanna see a catholic vampire saint fight a screaming skinless fourth dimensional demon of corruption with a big ass glowing sword. Legions of angels vs hordes of hell type shit. I don't care how miserable everyone is, make some shit that is absurd. 40k is at its best when it's being over-the-top cool not when it's being gay and depressing.

>>96248903

The lore is an inconsistent shitfest with the only redeeming factor being the art. The logistics are a joke and the fact that the church has jets and a fucking SPACE PROGRAM is just a nail in the coffin for hell. Hell just doesn't feel like a threat when Christendom is like 25 years ahead of us in terms of aerospace programs. Hell is going to get spawncamped by tungsten rods from space, and their navy won't matter for shit as debth charges destroy their subs, and strategic bombers turn their ports into gravel.

>>96260092
>the setting is even enjoyable if you head-canon some stuff to be less retarded.

I'm considering pulling a snoot game to trench crusade's volcano high out of spite at this point. The game's developers can't get anything to make any fucking sense when it comes to the world or themes.

>>96259406
>the old testament still applies
now i thought that pork was actually allowed thanks to Acts 10:15.
maybe i need to pick up Spanish and a good catholic study bible but I'm not even sure if you're right, i think it'd need to understand more about the law of Moses v Jesus distinction because I've known that there are people who argue explicitly that the new testament supersedes the old.

>>96260357
but anon, if we did that we'd have to take a stance on
anything except >christians are le bad.
also pay paul bonner and i'll play it.

>>96260177
Closest you'll get is Vampire Chevalier Requiem.

>>96260591
Or Vampire Hunter D, I guess.

>>96260598
You mean Vampire Hunter Peak?

>>96260661
I've never actually read the novels. I've heard they get a bit tedious.

>>96260591
It's less about vampires and more about the fact that they're leaning into the wrong side of their aesthetic. They should be make this shit feel nuts. Grimdark excels in providing a flavor and backdrop to the events taking place in the setting, but if the events aren't cool, why care?

The only thing holding trench crusade together right now is cool art and its so fucking obvious to anyone who isn't up their own ass. Don't get me wrong, the rules for the game are decent, but whenever I try to get back into TC, it just makes me want to go paly Mordheim instead.

>>96260729
Depends on your tolerance for edgelord characters. If you like that shit you'll like VHD, if you struggle with that, then stick with the animated content. The big appeal of the series, really, is there's very little like it, that does what it does, as good as it does, and you only really need to watch the movies to get that.

>>96260765
I've always thought Mordheim and Necromunda are far, far more interesting than the greater settings they're derived from. Made me want to get into Frostgrave & Stargrave, but neither seem to have a scene within distance I'm willing to drive.

>>96260859
My issue with Frostgrave is that only two characters in the warband (wizard and apprentice) have some sense of progression/personality, everyone else is just generic grunt. While in Mordheim and Necromunda even lowliest henchman has the potentioal to rise above and beyond.

>>96242992 (OP)
It didn't look cool to me, but also I knew I'd never play it. Unlike most of /tg/ I don't really care about things I don't play or plan on playing.

I never liked the art. My problem with the art is that it feels the same as when Japanese people put Christian themes or iconography in anime because they think it looks cool. To me it just looks a bit retarded for that reason,

>>96260765
There is a lack of vision behind everything Trench Crusade does. They don't have any core foundation for what the setting can or should be, they have a jumble of compelling ideas without the ability to refine them into concepts. They aren't good enough at writing to make it all make sense, they aren't brave enough to tackle controversial historical topics despite jumping head first into making an alt-history game, and it seems like they don't even really understand why people are interested in what they're making.

Calling it now, Trench Crusade will never make it out of the "project" phase, any final or finished product they ever produce will be underbaked, because it is not the point where it was done, just the point that they stopped.

There will never be a Trench Crusade that exists out there in the world that is cooler than the Trench Crusade I could invent in my head.

A single space marine can solo your entire setting

>>96262530
we get it buttermilk bob. enjoy femcodes in your "grim dark totally not woke now" game.

I can understand some of the criticism of the setting however to act like it won't ever change or be expanded upon in upcoming edition is frankly retarded. It takes time for a setting to actually get up to snuff, even Warhammer fags have to admit this

>>96246557
To be honest, the whole setting is RIPE for this issue.
>setting about crusaders vs hell
>okay so where does [faction that was historically fought against by the crusaders] land in this dichotomy?
>if you say hell, you're being offensive
>when historically, the whole message of the crusade was "These people are going to hell, come kill them to get absolved of your sins"

They stepped into a minefield with this one and, like with so many modern media/products, the creators get offended when people question their moral compass or say "Maybe the villain isn't 100% wrong".

>>96256242
It's sad but it reminds me of that one line some dude said about LotR:
>We will never have another LotR because everything the series was built upon: Chivalry, Honor, a king's right to rule, an unquestionnable good against an obvious evil... Are all things that modern powers just don't believe in anymore.

>>96259448
More lame Korean, but yeah I see what you mean.

>>96259983
>You can't judged art unless you can paint like van gough.
Well, time to sack every critic ever.

>>96260177
I'll also say that "morally grey" is also played out. Smiting ontologically evil beings with righteous fury is fun an cathartic. We don't need some fedora tipping bullshit sprinkled in for fake depth.

>>96262845
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with having a morally grey hero faction. But you have to do it right, and a big part of that is making it fun to roleplay and get invested in it. All the 40k nerds who go *BLAM* heretic! are doing it because of that fun-factor of roleplay.

But the problem is that TC doesn't want you larping as a psychotic turbo catholic, they think that's problematic. And that's really part of their biggest problem with community interaction and fandom. They made this setting people want to get invested in but they shrink away and sneer at the autistic nerds who want to have fun with it, and they can't tolerate people larping as christian fanatics unless it's done in a post-ironic satire kind of way behind 3 layers of irony.

>>96242992 (OP)
The game is total fucking trash though. I know nobody on /tg/ plays games and Trench Crusade fans pretend to exist so they can jelq over the art, but the actual gameplay of this piece of shit such rancid crap that I'm almost surprised it isn't mentioned more often.

Imagine if every unit, from your massive demon to your normal dude, had a 1/6th minimum chance of instant death from any attack whatsoever, be it a knife or a frag grenade. Or the fact that the balance is totally beyond the pale and littered with trap options. Or the nonsensical swingy dice pool engine that lacks any granularity whatsoever. Or the joke of a terrain placement rule that we just had to largely ignore so the table could actually retain some semblence of visual interest.

Any virtues of this game beyond the art are wholly generic. Probably the worst table miniature game I've ever tried sans AoS spearheads. I welcome the admittedly terrible political shit since it potentially saves otherwise interested people with good aesthetic taste their money.

>>96263780
Pretty much this. If you ever feel like getting into Trench Crusade, please go play Mordheim instead.

>>96242992 (OP)
Trench pilgrims having a unified aesthetic and culture makes no sense. They should be a hundred thousand different variations reflecting everything from sugar and sunshine sunday school to heavy metal hatred for Satan. I just wanted ordinary men and women voluntarilly charging the forces of hell.

>>96263780
>Or the nonsensical swingy dice pool engine that lacks any granularity whatsoever.
I'm just checking from page zero, why is it swingy and not granular? Dice pools are usually less swingy and more granular than single dice systems,

>>96248000
Also anyone who isn’t damned who gets near the hellgate gets burnt to a crisp. Part of their initiation is walking near the gate. That means the forces of hell should have a significantly smaller recruiting pool because only those who are already utterly damned and pure evil can join. If it was a battle between ordinary humans on the side of humanities and supermen imbued with all the gifts hell can shower upon them then I could buy it, but the average heretic grunt isn’t really that tough somehow.

>>96249455
If all the damned kept getting resurrected when killed I could buy this as a hopeless war.

>>96264115
I reckon he thinks it's swingy due to the +/- dice system, where you take the highest rolls on a +, the lowest rolls on -.
What it really does is prevent elites from roflstomping the plentiful weaker units in the game, especially for factions like Court, where most units go annihilate equal or lesser cost units almost for free.
Got to experience that first hand already.

>>96255965
If you want to add moral ambiguity to hell you’d have to drop the edgelord bit and instead make it so some demons really aren’t so bad. But then that completely kills the awesomeness of “the forces of hell are invading”.

>>96248000
You are talking about the captured cities, iirc, where Hell creates the rule of law, what there is of it.
They basically pull a Job, and make it so sin is the easiest, or only, way to survive.
>>96264136
You are speaking of the elite units like Anointed. The regular heretic need not supplicate at a Hell Gate, which is why they do not have superhuman abilities.

>>96242992 (OP)
All flash and no substance. And honestly, after you've seen one grimwank gunnerboi with mangled, misappropriated christian imagery you've seen em all.

In short, it insists upon itself.

>>96264115
Adding an additional dice *and* going from Pick Lowest to Pick Highest, or vice versa, matters a lot more than a mere +1 on an attack or wound roll. It's feast or famine; feels like you always hit or you do jack shit, but there's always a tiny chance to completely win the game on the spot with a lucky crit. Feels like playing a high school project.

I agree that dice pools are not inherently a bad idea but it was implemented in a confoundingly stupid way here.

>>96264208
My experience was that elites outclassed cheap chaff and you pretty much always wanted what you could get. Hence the arbitrary cap of 1 on most everything that isn't a basic grunt.

>>96264417
In a game where a 9+ dice rolls kills anything, elites do not actually swing things as hard so long as you have cheap chaff to pull it down.
IME, 3 basic units can and will down anything in the game if you focus on it. My friend getting bold with his Praetor and eating shit due to the fire of 3 Azebs will never stop making the rest of the group laugh.

>>96264026
Let's get crazy and branch out into some /awg/ shit. You like post apocalypse? Sci fi?

>>96255965
>moral ambiguity
>in a game literally about a demonic invasion being fought against by crusaders
Beyond ridiculous but it is revealing that lefties identify with demonic hordes

>>96264462
Fair enough, though I imagine it probably depends on the elite. Mine definitely felt a lot stronger than the Brass Bull I was fighting, for instance.

>trench crusade
>no rats
all I needed to know to ignore it

>>96264757
You can have rats in necromunda. You can strap bombs to them. :)

>>96264905
are those small bombs or very big rats?

>>96265618
big rats. (Also just so nobody gets confused, these models are for necromunda, a game that's actually fun, not TC)

>>96249609
>TC does not imply the history of the world was any different till the portal to hell event. But some how we have to accept every dumb shit because demons are real.
It seems like it does imply that, since the Knights Templar opened a portal to Hell right after the First Crusade took Jerusalem, and the Knights Templar did not exist in our universe until decades after the First Crusade. The obvious implication is the Knights Templar existed earlier.

If I say "in this universe, the Soviet Union attacked Austria-Hungary in 1914" then presumably the Soviet Union existed earlier in that universe, since in ours it only formed in 1922 (1917 if you want to count from the October Revolution). Do you need them to spell it out in big capital letters for you?

>>96266195
But is something like that intentional, or just an oversight? I'm leaning towards oversight.

>>96266195
How alt-history usually works is that you have major point of divergence from which all the other changes spring from. From a writing perspective, if the premise of your narrative is "alt-history where portals to Hell opened up during the first crusade" it is extremely odd creative choice to make the first point of divergence "Templars existed slightly earlier" rather than "portals to Hell opened". And the fact that Templars existing earlier is never elucidated or clarified upon creates the impression that it might not in fact even be intentional but rather a failure of the writer to know even the basic history of the thing he's writing about.

Is the game at least fun? Or is it a pale shadow of mordheim’s fun?

>>96266511
It's mediocre. A pale shadow unfortunately.

>40k but instead of gonzo sci-fi schizo weirdness it's just gay ww1 with gay Bible shit but we didn't even commit to that so the heckin muslimarinos are valid too
Noooo thanks. I'll stick to Mordheim.

>>96259080
>as they have been doing since the garden of Eden
lol take your meds, the garden of Eden story is allegorical, a symbolic narrative that conveys deeper truths about human nature and the relationship between humanity and God. It wasnt fucking literal

>>96242992 (OP)
I thought it was more interesting when it seemed more like Paths of Glory meets Silent Hill. To be honest, I lost interest once it turned into WW1Hammer

>>96268398
i'm glad i'm not the only one that noticed the obvious silent hill inspiration

>>96242992 (OP)
The art design looks cool at times. (Some art is banging others is just edgy tryhard.) However, the lore is ass and I think the game will be DOA

>>96269639
I think changing minor details would go a long way in fixing the lore. Like the church space program is only there because a faction gnostic archon-themed devils want to become star gods and have started their own space program so it becomes a space race.

>>96267103
Okay and in this allegorical story, satanic forces are trying to twist the words of God, so good job. It's not prehistorical, it's intrinsic to human consciousness on a fundamental level. Great self-own retard.

>>96256437
easy, they'd side with the rest of humanity and let their religion get co-opted by the Church, which isn't too dissimilar with what happened irl. Doing fucked-up shit for survival seems to be what this setting is all about (insofar as it's about anything at all), so the Mexica would probably fit right in.
>>96256993
>Aztecs where so fucking evil that the rest of the empire decided to ally with some random outsider at the first opportunity than defend the monsters that where the Aztecs.
you stupid Zambo monkey. The Aztecs weren't doing anything differently from what everyone else in the region were already engaged in since the Pre-classic period. Human sacrifice was the norm throughout all of Mesoamerica, and nobody was particularly opposed to it until after the Spanish conquest. Tlaxcala (one of the first city-states to ally with Spain and the Aztec's primary rival) was just as willing to rip people's hearts out as anyone else. The most you can say is that the Aztecs did it on a larger scale than anyone else, and that's more the result of it's political and military hegemony than any unique rituals or religious practices. Hell, you didn't even get the timeline right, most city-states didn't side with Spain until after the fall of Tenochtitlan, and then it was primarily a matter of opportunistic back-stabbing, a main-stay of Mesoamerican politics since forever. Get your facts straight, you walking crime statistic.
>>96260357
>I'm considering pulling a snoot game to trench crusade's volcano high out of spite at this point. The game's developers can't get anything to make any fucking sense when it comes to the world or themes.
Now that's a project I can get behind. I think the first and most obvious fix is the conspicuous lack of trenches. Considering they're in the name, you'd think there would be entire countries in Europe that would just be vast complexes of trenches, but the closest you get to that in the lore are brief mentions of "trench pilgrims."

>>96272975
>>96260357
I know people complain about the Islamic faction a lot, but as an appreciator of Islamic history it is really lackluster and disappointing. And if we're going to have Aztecs then there should be handmaidens tale Protestant Americans. And Iron Harvest mechs too

>>96273237
>handmaidens tale Protestant Americans
fuck you for even bringing-up that piece of shit smut-story. But, since we're on the subject, what is the deal with Protestantism in this setting? You'd think that Martin Luther would get skinned alive the second he suggested that there was anything wrong with Catholicism, but there is a secular Prussian state, which only came to existence irl due to Protestantism. Rome seems willing to cooperate with Muslims and the Orthodox, so it could be possible that they're more willing to tolerate certain types of religious dissent in order to win the war, but what if that religous dissent involves stuff like skepticism towards relics, pilgrimages, etc.? Would that skepticism even make sense if relics have verifiable supernatural powers?

>>96273307
>piece of shit smut-story.
lol i just liked the aesthetic
>what is the deal with Protestantism
There is a 'Tri-Calvinist' wars in the setting which I assumed was the reformation becoming much more violent then our irl wars of religion, which is really an achievement.
And then I reread it and it turned to be 'Tri-Clavianist' wars which is reffering to the triclavian heresy (Jesus was crucified with 3 nails, not 4 as is accepted in the modern church), so it had nothing to do with Protestantism at all

>>96273386
Like, I invented a whole alt history in my head about Calvinists and Anabaptists gaining more power and there being three people claiming to be Calvin, and the heretic legions covertly aiding and inflaming both sides etc, because I misread a single sentence, and it turned out to be a nothingburger.
Thats the feeling I get from this whole project, the Trench Crusade in your head will always be cooler and better then the Trench Crusade of reality

>>96266921
The central flaw which is killing the setting is that they are not fully committing to the Bible stuff and trying to insert their reddit-derived worldview where "all sides are valid except Christianity" into a literal final battle of good and evil between Christians and the devil. If I were the artist I'd be slapping their hands away from my metal as hell drawings before they fag it up further.

>>96272975
Not once did I mention human sacrifice and that is the first thing you went to. Nor I made deep timeline of the events.
I just express that as soon the opportunity was given the tribes allied with random outsiders. Hell I even mention that the civil was was going to happen regardless of Spaniards involvement.
Your 84% is showing. Maybe you are the statistic

>>96274367
ok fag, what made the aztecs so mega-evil compared to everyone else in Mesoamerica then?

>>96274367
firstly, they're city-states, not tribes, you dip-shit. Secondly, the "tribes" didn't ally with the spanish the second they landed; most of the city-states under Aztec control didn't ally with them until after the fall of Tenochtitlan, as I've already pointed out. Before, Cortes' main indigenous allies were either enemies of the Aztecs, like the Tlaxcalans, or rulers that he installed in various conquered cities, such as Ixtlilxochitl in Texcoco. They didn't flock to the Spanish until after the Aztecs were defeated. Thirdly, the revolts before the conquest and the likelihood of their continuance afterwards doesn't disprove my point in the slightest about how completely ordinary Aztec actions were in the context of Mesoamerican politics. They fundamentally didn't do anything that tributary states would consider "evil" that they didn't do themselves. The Aztecs were not exceptionally brutal in how they conducted warfare, they were not extremely dictatorial in how they administered the empire, they didn't demand tributes of a gazillion gallons of blood. The worst you can say about them is that they were particularly expansionist and militaristic. Thirdly, the statistic is 13% and 50%. I don't even know what 84% is a reference to.

>>96272975
>conspicuous lack of trenches
The hellgate should be unironically moved from Jerusalem to France. The French IRL were the birthplace of a large chunk of modern degeneracy so it wouldn't be that much out of character for them. Secondly this would streamline logistics for everyone involved as no unnecesary bordergore and immediate encirclements would be needed.

The Pyrenees and Alps should be the frontlines due to their inherent deffensiveness as mountain ranges. The British should be patrolling the coast of Europe to make sure no hell forces manage to escape the continent. The east is dependant on how many factions you want to have there. I think having Warsaw and Konigsberg be under siege would be fine enough to have both a Polish and German faction in the game.

>>96273237
>I know people complain about the Islamic faction a lot
Just put Al-Andalus as the Islamic faction and have Iberia be split in the middle between Christians and Muslims. Have the reconquista be effectively put on hold for a while to fight the forces of hell. Occassional conflicts between the two sides happen but they are usually short lived.

Now because you have two factions in a prime position for colonisation you can divide the new world between the two and any additional colonisers and even natives.

Spain kills off the Aztecs and gives the Tlaxcallans the right to run the area while at the same time telling them to provide resources for the war effort in the old world, and they get to fight a hell outpost created by corrupted conquistadors gets set up arround Lake Guatavita (The inspiration for El Dorado), made up of demon worshiping natives and traitorous colonists. Flamethrowers and obsidian bayonets in jungle warfare.

Demonic pirates of the Caribean doing naval battles with the Military order of Malta to protect the resource shippments from the new world.

>>96272975
>>96273237
>>96275235

If someone wants to rework the setting then make a new thread as this one is dying.

>>96266363
>>96266453
the writers are uneducated atheists writing about religion
just makes sense they don't know shit about fuck