>the only souls game where each individual area is remembered by name and discussed heavily
why is it the only one?

Second to last game to not secretly be a boss rush

>>712394997 (OP)
It's still their magnum opus. 3 was ok. Elden Ring was trash

>>712394997 (OP)
because it's the most complete entry in the series even if DS3 refined combat
it stands on the shoulders of Demon's Souls in many regards

>>712394997 (OP)
DS3 is the last Souls game I played and I can't remember fuck all about it. Every area looks the same, they all have the same grey, muted colors, there are way too many swamps. It all just bleed together, like they were trying to make the most 'Souls' thing possible but it just ended up as regurgitated crap.

>>712395760
>most complete entry
Holy fuvk

>>712394997 (OP)
You really have to stop this shit. A good quarter of the zones and bosses in Dark Souls are abject shit, there is backtracking out the absolute ass, key NPCs, merchants, and quest givers are on complete opposite sides of the world, and the 1:1 scale open world just starts to fall apart at the seams as the game goes on, with giant empty hallways of nothingness to disguise loading screens, huge empty rooms just to make a zone mesh neatly with another zone, and multiple zones of complete filler that serve only to connect different areas together. It's no coincidence the two strongest zones by far, Sen's Fortress and Painted World, are both self-contained.

Dark Souls has some high highs, but some of the lowest lows, you could cut out a good 30-40% of the game and it would be much better for it. It's honestly the weakest of the four Souls games, unless you're just a complete sucker for interconnected metroidvania worlds to the point where you ignore its gaping flaws.

>>712396418
DS1 is unfinished, but the world coheres in a way nothing they've made since can come anywhere close to. There's a lot of thought put into the vertical layering (unlike the vertical slopfest that was SotE where stuff was just layered for the sake of it), with heaven on top and hell at the bottom, and the world gradually getting filthier the lower you go until you reach Ash Lake beneath it all.

It's their most complete world by a mile.

>>712396312
nice try liar but there is only one swamp and it's the great swamp

>>712394997 (OP)
I beat Dark Souls Remastered on Switch and I had a terrible time. I don't understand the appeal of souls games. They're so ugly and devoid of anything remotely resembling good game design. It just feels like a meme for retards who want to be "hardcore".

>>712396726
>There's a lot of thought put into the vertical layering (unlike the vertical slopfest that was SotE where stuff was just layered for the sake of it)
you gotta be more specific retard, or else you just seem like arbitrarily preferencing one game over another. and dont default to name calling. i like ds1 more than anybody in this thread probably (probably the only one to have it as their no.1 game) but i wont pass on the chance of a game with similar or equally good level design. i need an actual reason SOTE's verticality is actually bad.

>>712396726
Yeah I like it too but it’s blatantly unfinished jackass

>>712396431
This post really unintentionally captures the crux of the issue and why DS1 is so polarizing but so iconic even after all these years.
The modern gamer craves convenience, they are okay with challenging games but only in a highly curated disney land ride format. Anything that exists outside of the smooth gradient of player desire is bad game design. DS1's unrelenting apathy is perhaps the strongest thing about it but also the thing that makes it "bad" to play from a pure dopamine perspective.

>>712394997 (OP)
It's great, but Demon Souls (PS3 version) was better. The story was just way more coherent.

>>712397468
>It's blatantly unfinished because uhhh.....uhhhh, I didn't like some of the areas near the end of the game?

>>712396431
Based

>>712397563
There is a difference between "tough but fair", "the journey not the destination"-type friction, and just actual poor level and boss design, along with excessive padding that adds nothing but frustration and tedium, and should have just been cut.

Dark Souls appeals to "content zoomers" who view a piece of media as the collective sum of all of its positives, and view more as always being better. Whereas those who were not raised on TikTok actually want their time respected - they will look at the game as a whole, not just the good content, but also the middling content that actively detracts from the experience, as the overall flow and pacing of the game

>>712396418
Did DS3 really feel complete to you? Are you clueless?

was Dark Slop really the Super Mario World for zoomers?

>>712396805
But there are numerous pools of poison throughout the early to mid-game

>>712397413
>i need an actual reason SOTE's verticality is actually bad.
Because there is no point to it. The connections between areas aren't really clever and they don't interconnect in fun ways like they do in DS1, and there isn't any sort of theme or logic or anything. It's just stuff layered on stuff because they were praised for that in their earlier games.

In general, SotE is just a mindless flanderization of Souls, the world design is just one aspect of that.

>>712398751
no there is only one pool of poison in farron keep

the second half of dark souls 1 is good
i dont mentally comprehend what makes people think the first half of anor londo is somehow peak gameplay but new londo/totk/dlc/catacombs etc is somehow abysmal, or how any aspect of demon ruins/lost izalith outside of the boss at the end is somehow the worst gameplay ever made

Babby's first Dark Souls.

>>712398612
>>712396431

>>712399483
Anor Londo as a whole just sucks; there's too much empty space, the level design of the castle interior is poor, it feels sterile and unfinished, and the bosses are underwhelming.

>>712399706
nice selfie retard

>>712399846
>>712399706

>>712399846
>it feels sterile and unfinished
It is literally an illusion propped up by a femboy, though.

>>712394997 (OP)
No, I remember all of the Demon's Souls levels by name. There's 2-1 where you fight the bugs, and then of course 1-2 with the dragon.

>>712394997 (OP)
I fucking hate this image so much
It makes it seem like Dark Souls is some gay ass DMC GoW clone

>>712399483
Demon ruins aren't even bad, just subpar. Lost Izalith is the only zone that is actual garbage.

>>712397747
I love demon's souls but the story was this:
>King wanted power
>King awakened an ancient evil, which shrouded the kingdom in evil fog, also gave birth to magic + miracles.
>The mines unearthed a horrible ancient evil of their own, the dragon god.
>Put the Old One back to slumber before everything turns to gray soulless ash.
the end. Dark Souls has a lot more lore going on and it's very cohesive and makes perfect sense as well. Even Bloodborne's lore is solid.

Dark souls 2 and 3 are a bit more muddied because 2 didn't correctly communicate it takes place in a mirror world and also sort of the past. You access 'Drangleic' via a lake. 3 refers to the land as simply 'Drang'. Therefore, Drang Lake. You don't actually take part in the world's true events, you access a twisted memory of them.

3 was harder to understand because it was HEAVILY metaphorical, something 1 and 2 already were but 3 went nuts deep on the symbolism. The world is basically having all the common symptoms of insomnia because it's being forced to stay awake via energy drinks (linking the fire) and can't get any sleep (age of dark) which will inevitably end up in death (age of ancients/gray). The world itself is hallucinating, time is warping, lands are being pulled together to complete the Black Hole symbolism of the brand. It's really really well done but again, not everyone will get it. Especially normalfags who have no imagination.

>>712398676
Completely gay, yeah

>>712400443
>caring about Souls lore
holy shit just kys redditor

>>712394997 (OP)
1 & 2 were the last time we had a proper Souls like. 2 didn't quite build the best world, but wasn't linear trash like 3. Elden Ring then turned into gay open world anime flipping shit that somehow caught on and got popular. Then we got more gay bosses doing gay anime flips and shit. Boring fucking circular boss rooms, too.

Think about how unique the Taurus Demon boss fight was.

>narrow bridge with archers you could clear behind you
>could fight him normally
>could climb up and use plunge attack
>he could fall off the stage
>he could jump up to the top area if you lingered and you'd have a less narrow area to fight him

All this from an early boss. No gay anime flipping in sight, everyone just enjoying the moment.

ZANZIBART FORGIVE ME

>>712401290
yeah, and Tauras Demon was piss easy no matter what fancy shit you could do in his boss fight. its not like it changed anything. We have better bosses now in ER, because they didn't have to focus on such gimmicky shit. Besides, there are bosses that do similar gimmicks in the Catacombs or Dungeons.
youd know that if you actually played the game. there is no anime flipping shit

>>712401791
Nta but back then when we first stated playing souls, we werent as good at it as we are today and even if tauaus was easy, it still is far more iconic and memorable then muh Artorias Gwyn clone number 492. also by anime i asume he meant non stop attacks with flashy Aoe Bullshit moves

>>712394997 (OP)
>Yharnam, Cathedral Ward, Upper Cathedral Ward, Old Yharnam, Forbidden Woods, Hemwick Lane, Byrgenwerth, Cainhurst Castle, Nightmare Frontier, Nightmare of Mensis, Lecture Hall, Unseen Village
Idk, this is peak and I remember all of these areas, their names, how to get to them and whats in them better than Dark Souls.

>>712401791
>there is no anime flipping shit
cmon now bro

>>712402284
it doesnt matter how old you are when you played it. it matters if it holds up today, and it doesnt. hte boss has 3 attacks, your camera gets lodged in his ass, and you risk more accidentally walking off than actually dying from any of his attacks

>>712402697
Go ahead, prove me wrong. what anime bossfight is in ER?

>>712400443
>Even Bloodborne's lore is solid
im sorry but no. i love bloodborne, its the only game ive ever 100%ed in my life, but the lore is shit and the game is clearly half baked

bloodbourne relies entirely on speculation in a way that the other games do not. we know what the deal is with gwyn an dthe flame, for example, but everything surrounding mergo and the wetnurse is pure speculation with no concrete answer as to what the fuck is going on and why they are so important

>>712402990
How about Malenia or the big black yiffer (mala-something, I forget his name)? There are lots more. Now I'm sure you're just gonna say
>nooooo those flips are not le anime ;)
Yes, whatever you say. Don't bother replying.

More than the design, I think the bigger problem with the later areas in Dark Souls 1 is the loot sucks. You get very few interesting things. This is a consequence of the tightly interconnected world design letting you grab all the relevant stuff you need pretty quickly, plus a lot of the best items are actually early in the game. Duke's wouldn't be so bad if it didn't have so many dead ends with nothing in them or some bullshit Crystal weapon.

>>712403072
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZQP3rjBA7o

You already know, OP
Everyone knows deep inside

>>712403072
It makes perfect sense if you know how dreamworlds work and the allusions to lovecraft. Even without that knowledge, the game gives you more than enough information to figure it out.
>but everything surrounding mergo and the wetnurse is pure speculation
Oh if you mean what the purpose of eldritch beings beyond our comprehension, yes. They are beyond human comprehension, that is the point.
Micolash was trying to commune with one of these things, and accidentally the entire mensis as a result.

It's suggested Mergo, the infant stillborn great one, was extracted from queen Yharnam's womb perhaps, especially in regards to how she showed up and looked sad looking at the loft.

As for why it's important, it wound up fucking up a lot in Yharnam. There was a lot of attempts to commune with beings beyond a human's capability to understand, and when people try to take things they don't understand, ruin follows. It was the second time something involving Mergo happened, so Yharnam clearly has trouble with repeating its history.

>>712403072
truth

>>712394997 (OP)

best game

>>712394997 (OP)
>Interconnected areas encourage you to build a mental map
>Never fast travel until the second half, so no brainrot
Simple as that.
It's the only fun Souls game to replay.
>>712399483
For whatever reason everyone just says that the abortion clinic, clam jam and dragon-ass-super-fun-slide are indicative of the quality of the entire rest of the game.

>>712398676
>Did DS3 really feel complete to you?
compared to ds1? yeah

>>712400443
>>The mines unearthed a horrible ancient evil of their own, the dragon god.
retard

>>712402990
That retarded dog cleric you fight at the end of the game. Elden Ring sucks nuts.

i>>712394997 (OP)
This and Elden Ring desu

>>712407793
>dragon-ass-super-fun-slide
i actually think the fire lake with the dragon asses was awesome

>>712394997 (OP)
Nothing will match the feeling of taking the elevator in New Londo Ruins, having things slowly grow brighter as the Firelink Shrine music starts playing.

>>712394997 (OP)
elden ring did it better

>>712407959
Maliketh? You're complaining about fighting a giant humanoid beast with a fuck off sword? What is it you want to fight exactly?

>>712394997 (OP)
What gear is the guy on the cover art using?

>>712398676
Yes. It's still slop, but it's definitely more complete. The only area that felt as unfinished as DS1 lost izalith was DS3 lost izalith

>>712403072
>>712406708

alright i take it back, it seems there has been a lot of new development in bb lore since i stopped paying attention a long time ago, or I somehow missed the truth completely

I remember back when I was into it, there was still a lot of speculation and the common talking point I saw everyone say was that the moon presence wanted you to hunt stuff and wanted you to kill mergo for some vague unknown reason, and this created a lot of confusion and it was still up to speculation as to what the fuck was going on

but im looking at stuff now and it seems like this entire line of thought was complete and utter nonsense and a clear concise plot has actually been layed out and backed up as to why we hunt mergo and mergos relation to the moon presence and everything that is happening in the game

I kneel. I will also probably be replaying bloodbourne IMMEDIATELY now that I finally fully grasp it after a decade. fuck

>>712396431
>It's honestly the weakest of the four Souls games,
lol no. Nothing is worse than DaS2.

>>712397756
Whats the lore between the 10 dragon asses in a row?

>>712398727
as if bingslop is any better?

>>712396431
god i fucking hate ds3 babies

>>712394997 (OP)
I'm assuming you're not counting demons because everyone remembers tower of latria.

>>712396431
>the two strongest zones by far, Sen's Fortress and Painted World
Be more subtle next time.

If you ever see the artworks behind each area you will easily understand how hard they tried each area to be it's own unique thing. There's a huge contrast between all of them. Lordran is filled with hollows, but that doesn't mean it has to be a complete ugly mess.

So, you will get "normal, low-class" areas such as the Undead Burg, "filthy" areas such as Blighttown, "high-class, glorious" areas such as Anor Londo and so on.

The other souls games also have their own strong art styles, but they ultimately sacrifice some of that subconscious effort of giving each area it's unique identity. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is indeed something that Dark Souls does different.

>>712394997 (OP)
I've never played any of these games. Do they have good stories?

>>712414615
I don't know what happened to the image, but my point still holds the same.

>>712414659
Post the dragon ass lava lake concept art, I wanna see the conceptual stage of that.

>>712394997 (OP)
>>the only souls game where each individual area is remembered by name and discussed heavily
huh that's not DeS tho?

>>712398676
No. Anyone who's not retarded can tell that game is rushed.

>>712414615
>>712414659
I still can't believe that people will see this, play this and sitll defend the abortion that was ds2

>>712414643
No. They have backstories & lore thats chopped up into hundreds of small bits & put into item descriptions that you either read & try to piece together or watch some youtuber who did it & explains it.

>>712414643
No. Good lore? Debatable.

>>712414643
The story is super basic and kinda worthless
They have cool settings and interesting lore if you care to look around and read shit

>>712414773
>>712414798
Oh. Guess these games aren't for me then.

>>712414564
That's not a controversial statement at all. They are far better than garbage like Anor Londo.

>>712414394
Started in 2009 on Demon's Souls and it's still my favorite. Dark Souls was a huge downgrade.

>>712414770
they're just farming contrarian points

>>712395760
Let's not pretend as if DeS isn't an incredibly rough game. DaS does owe it but moreso in that DeS feels like a rough first draft while DaS feels like the realized vision.

>>712394997 (OP)
Because the early areas are fantastic and memorable, and final areas are so ateocious you cannot forget them

>>712394997 (OP)
Because you can't fucking teleport away whenever you feel like it nigga

>>712414920
das is just a squalid copy of DeS made for retards and low iq gaymers

>>712414856
You might like demons souls, it actually does have a story and, by souls standards, extremely fleshed out characters that actually have dialog instead of random mumbling & tidbits of info. The item descriptions are auxiliary information that adds to it instead of being the primary source of information about the characters & the world.
Though if you play it I recommend the original unless you don't mind the butchered art style & the implications that has for the lore & themes of the game. Everything in the original was deliberately designed & the remake goes in like a wrecking ball & nonsensically changes everything using rule of cool with no regards to the cohesion & immersion of the game.

>>712415087
Based, I lo-
*world tendency shifts slightly, locking you out of posting on 4chan*

>>712399483
In all honesty its about how the game makes you feel. First area is undead burg so every other player is basically going down the entire time to progressively harder and more tedious regions. Sens fortress is a small respite but really "tricky" in its own way, then you get that climb to anor londo so it really feels like you made it somewhere. O and S are a great boss fight so most people forget most the area is open space, slow easily avoided enemies, weaker knights, and annoying albino projectile spammers. Once you get the lordvessle the veneer of the interconnected world kinda wears off. First part of the game you have a choice but you didn't see all the possible options it felt like you were in a full living breathing world, second half you get 3 choices shown to you (and one secret area you figure you have to beat) but that it and then you know you'll beat the game. Its just kinda melancholic and disappointing. As another anon said it doesn't help that certain halves or areas are weaker then the good parts. Like the crystal cave is not really as fun as the dukes archives, the tomb of the giants has that bone dogs part which is more annoying then the beginning which actually has some nice secrets and tomb raiding, lost izalith I kinda disagree with the majority on the only real bad part is the lava area where running around is pointless but the actual sanctuary is fine and kinda cool like the siegmire and witches daughter part. The final boss being the biggest disappointment in the game is what colors peoples impression though. I actually thought the centipede was one of the coolest boss fights in the game though. Imo the new londo thing should have just been you can get the key to the seal without killing ingward since the beginning, but that area is also kind of annoying since the ghost gimmick doesn't work late game when you can easily afford transient curses, you still have to backtrack to get to the darkwraith area.

>>712414698
Of course, that was the result of last-minute decisions made for the launch. But at least it gives us some insight into how they used the resources at their disposal, not for the best execution, but for something interesting.

The idea of dragon asses isn't inherently bad, it's just the AI that needed work. That whole area feels clunky, but memorable nonetheless.

>>712415179
kek
time to farm on r*ddit for some karma

>>712414920
>Let's not pretend as if DeS isn't an incredibly rough game
just fucking kill yourself revisionist zoomer. NO ONE fucking thought this the entire first decade the game was out.

>>712414564
Sen's Fortress IS the best level in the game through. He's not wrong about that.

>>712415179
>world tendency shifts
Not disproving the IQ part of his post with this.

>>712415181
They are cool enemies but you can barely tell whats going on in the environment. And by this point most players probably have fatigue since I imagine most people do it last. The way I think they should have do it is the kiln of the first flame is atop a mountain that you have to get to above anor londo rather than just teleporting there. Nitos domain should have been located by tomb of the giants but only accessible from a secret trek down the mountains that had its own enemies and challenges and tomb of the giants should have maybe had a secret entrance unlocked if you beat it early game instead of late. Dukes archives would already fit nicely. Lost izalith they could keep it in the same location but you should have had to finish it earlier or they should have a different witch serve as a final boss in a different area on the mountain toward the kiln.

>>712415179
More zoomer revisionism bullshit. Almost no one back in the day knew or cared about the WT system. It was mostly just a novelty that was only relevant almost exclusively for people farming upgrade material and going for 100%.

The game gets slightly harder, but gives you more resources to compensate. Again, more fucking mindless regurgitation of misinformation from a subhuman zoomer who wasn't. fucking. there.

>>712414643
The whole "DaS games don't have a story" thing is overblown. DeS, DaS and DaS3 all have clear stories, even if they're dialogue light as a consequence of focusing on exploring abandoned/decaying areas. A lot of context/lore is hidden behind NPC side quests and item descriptions, and admittedly the endings of DaS1 can feel out of left field if you didn't encounter a very specific NPC that only shows up if you defeat a certain boss before the game guides you to them.

>>712415304
Its probably one of the worst. Only thing it has going for it is being narrow with clear directions. The souls games really never designed good open area levels or fights.

>>712414889
most of ds3 feels like anor londo to me

>>712415087
list the things that makes DeS for smart gaymers compared to DS1 so that I can laugh at your stupidity

>>712415275
>The idea of dragon asses isn't inherently bad
I have to disagree. Fighting a zombie dragon torso? Thats cool. His ass walking around on its own? Kinda retarded & it gets taken to a whole different level of retarded when they're in a lava lake that makes an annoying sound every second you're trudging through it.
That whole section should've been cut from the game.
>>712415304
I thought it was just okay, didn't blow me away.

>>712415641
>if you didn't encounter a very specific NPC that only shows up if you defeat a certain boss before the game guides you to them
who?

>>712415304
sens fortress is the best level in the entire series, hell, the entire genre. people who disagree were clearly too late to the party and didn't invade/get invaded there

>>712415636
Literally the first level of the game (ignoring the tutorial) has very good items you can just get locked out of if you don't have a good world tendency value.

>>712415680
das1 copies everything from DeS but dumbs it down for black people like you
:)

>>712415284
he's not wrong. for the average person there's stuff in the game they have no easy way of finding out about like hidden checkpoints. the fatigue from the long trek back to bosses for the average normie leads to too much fatigue for them to have a good experience with the game. basically everyone has internet access and unlimited info readily avaialble to them now so there's alot of revisionism going on about DeS. It's a much different experience if you played it pre 2010, vs playing the remake and coming to /v/ to shitpost about it.

>>712415687
The original idea was that the dragon torsos and asses would be in the same area (a swamp) so it would have been cool because you would be fighting truly dismembered enemies.

>>712394997 (OP)
>>712395760
Elden Ring is the only other title where all the areas are part of the conversation.

>>712415636
>>712415763
>muh lockout
why do people care about this shit in an rpg? you're supposed to be taking paths and picking sides

>>712415734
Darkstalker Kaathe only shows up if you defeat the Four Kings before clearing the gold fog gates, and the info he gives (while biased) is necessary for understanding the actual story and ending of DaS.

>>712415791
DS1 added estus (which was then adopted by the whole genre because it's an awesome idea)
Your nigger brain must be too fucked up from all the grass you're consuming
Oh and it also has covenants, tail cutting, interconnectedness... not that a contrarian nigger would know

>>712415734
Kaathe

>>712415284
one of the portraits is smashed bro its literally missing an entire level

>>712415763
>NOOOOOOOO I read this guide and it says I need to have this world tendency value in order to get these specific items so I can have this specific build which is supposed to cheese the whole game!! WAAAAAAHHH!!!
dude, shut. the fuck. up.

You should be playing blind anyways. These are optional items, there dozens upon dozens of viable builds, and both pure black and pure white have their own unique drops, mostly to offset the fact that neither is ideal. Pure white has easy enemies but gives very little souls, Pure black gives a lot of souls but the enemies are harder.

Was it some brillaint idea? No, it didn't really work out as well in practice. But it was basically an inoffensive novelty, and when you have such a groundbreaking revolutionary game, not every single idea is going to stick. Again, nobody back then and even many years after bitched about it. It's pure revisionism from people who weren't there and didn't play the fucking game.

>>712415641
>DeS, DaS and DaS3 all have clear stories
The thing is its not at all hyperbolic to say the latter two's story being summoned up in one sentence is very much representative of the games. DS1 at least retained some of the character depth from demons which adds a lot to the game but still its very bare bones compared to what came before. You don't even get a real cutscene at the end if you link the fire, you don't even know why the fuck your character is doing this, why he gives a shit about any of this. Oscar wanted you to be a hero & your character is motivated to this because... reasons the game doesn't give you. Then after the second bell any semblance of story drops off a cliff. Characters tell you not to go hollow but if you follow what the game suggests you go burn yourself & stand next to the fire exactly like a hollow would do.
Its just so half assed compared to demons & 3 is way worse & I'm not even going to go into it.

>>712395760
>DS3 refined combat
On the contrary. The animations may be rougher in dark souls 1, but the flow of combat is better. It's slower and more reactive. Not to mention poise actually works and shields aren't nerfed to the ground. DS3 suffered from "bloodbornification", where they started making things faster and more punishing just because they felt like going in that direction. It was the wrong direction - because the game became all about rolling.
Ever notice how in Dark Souls 1, you could simply strafe and position yourself outside of enemy attacks? Not everything required a precise roll input into the i-frame window. Sometimes you could just walk left, with your shield up for good measure. Not every boss required hard memorization and had a "gotcha" moveset. It was the true definition of "hard but fair" (most of the time, bed of chaos and ceaseless discharge gimmick bosses notwithstanding).
Elden Ring is just "bloodbornification" cranked up to a ridiculous extreme. You spend 80% of battles rolling now. Armor actually makes the game worse - now you're better off being naked and two handing a giant sword. The combat has been totally flanderized and the "rollslop" epithet is an apt description of the place the games are in now.

>>712416108
Literally one of the first things you see in the first level is a gate that is either open or closed based entirely on an arbitrary value, with no way of accessing the area behind it without having the right arbitrary value to open the gate. This is shit you'd only miss if you were blind.

>>712415836
what..??? Yes, it was very different compared to its contemporaries, much more hardcore, unforgiving, old-school. It had a certain mystique to it. Nowadays people act like the game is so fucking easy because they have 1000+ hours experience in Souls, look up the most OP build, and play the game glued to a guide. It just boggles the fucking mind. Again, the experience in 2009 was so fucking different than it is now.

But what the fuck does any of that have to do with feeling rough/unfinished?

>>712416346
Poise works as intended in 3.

>>712394997 (OP)
because its still the best and the template. Fromsoft shud make a statue to Durante for making the pc release playable.

>>712416352
I have no idea what you're even talking about, and looking it up literally every single video is about the shitty demake.

>>712398727
zooms dont play Dark SLop

>>712397563
Sleep tight Steeler

>>712416509
>DeS contrarian is an unplayer

>>712416418
It's nerfed to shit in 3. They fully embraced "fashion souls". Making a "havel build" just doesn't work in 3 because everything staggers you anyway, it's useless

>>712416614
Apparently you only need any level of White, and it also stays open regardless of WT afterwards.

Like I said, you follow a guide and focus on irrelevant details because you're a faggot zoomer. You should have been there in 2009, but you were still shitting diapers.

>>712394997 (OP)
demon's souls is just way better, put it on xbox btw.

>>712416482
>makes dark souls PTDE PC the best version of the game to this day
>makes deadly premonition playable... for some
>makes great official pc ports for falcom that add new features like co-op for the Ys games
he's a legend

>>712416346
>Not to mention poise actually works and shields aren't nerfed to the ground.
Faith builds got it the worst, I remember my friend started a mule character & maxed out faith & used the most powerful spell on enemies it & it was so fucking weak it was hilarious. This was a few months after the game came out so they had plenty of time to change this but didn't. Either they didn't test that or they deliberately nerfed miracles to the point they were basically useless, given the state of the rest of game I'd say its a coin flip as to which it is.

>>712416676
>It's nerfed to shit in 3
As opposed to being actually retarded in 1. You should not have armor on sipping a flask.

>>712416817
because you said so?

>>712416817
>they should've removed armor from the game because of the healing mechanic

>>712416817
Why not? The trade off is you fatroll and can't avoid attacks as easily. You know, actual game mechanics instead of punishment for the sake of punishment.

>>712416108
You all were too shit at the game to care about efficiency back then with your fat rolling with a falchion and kite shield builds.
People that actually like to git gud and have fun in these games do get annoyed about arcane and underdeveloped mechanics that require playing around rather than organic interaction with.

>>712416337
>you don't even know why the fuck your character is doing this, why he gives a shit about any of this
Its supposed to be a subversion of video game tropes a commentary about how gamers are shepherded through video games in certain directions due to the illusion of progress and some clever prior narratives. As you pointed out there seems to be a heavy weighting of story towards the beginning no? Like all jrpgs there is a big theme or religions being lies or churches being corrupt. So the player is guided by the developer and the player character is literally shepherded toward their death by malicious entities that knew what was actually going on all along. Its a lot like bioshock not gonna say its deep because its a little overdone at this point but yea maybe it was more of a new idea during development.

>>712416346
You actually suck fat donkey dick at Elden Ring if you didn't realize that it was the best game in the series for shield and heavy armor builds.
You can trivialize both Malenia and Consort Radahn with a great shield and spear and poise tank just about anything.

>>712394997 (OP)
>>the only souls game where each individual area is remembered by name
des and das2
>and discussed heavily
no one cares about das anymore, especially since ER was released
>>712395760
>because it's the most complete entry i
What the fuck?
Even outside of half localtions being cut, half of npc, dialogues and questline were removed at the last possible moment. They literally made entire dlc out of cut content from main game, holy shit, deluded fag

>>712416337
>>712417041
There's nothing deep or retarded about it either way.
Its just a trope of FROM's game writing throughout the Kings Field and Shadow Tower series.
You have as much reason to run around killing everything that moves as like Doom Guy does.

>>712396726
>DS1 is unfinished, but the world coheres in a way nothing they've made since can come anywhere close to
People literally mocked how world design doesn't make sense, especially fucking lake and how it's weakest FROm game by far design wise, before pc fags swarmed into game
And don't forget developers cope with "time convulted" to explain why story doesn't make any sense

>>712416370
nta hes saying the game was feeling unpolished back then where as now most people know how to get through a souls game. Hes kinda right too a big problem with the souls games are that they make sense if you know how it works but the games just don't explain jack shit it feels half assed to players.

>>712416352
I even platinum'd the game back in the day and I'm like 98% sure I never did that. I do remember seeing Executioner Miralda on the loading screens, but never actually fought her.

I don't know why you're getting caught up on some very minor optional area, that most people wouldn't even know exists, as it doesn't even look like an accessible part of the level. It's just a fun little secret, but you're really not missing anything.

>>712417204
Tell me you've only played modern slop without telling me you've only played modern slop.

>>712417184
>DS1
>people complainged how world design doesn't make sense
This post smells of a revisionist DS2 tranny's rotten axe wound

>>712417171
Ah well I haven't played the others. I know being used is a common trope in japanese fiction though.

>>712416108
PWWT was a problem back then and players absolutely did complain about it. Check Gamefaqs, you'll see it everywhere. If you died ONCE in human form, you were fucked and could not reach White, which locked you out of items, NPCs, and questlines. So the player solution was to just kill ourselves in the Nexus. Eventually online was beaten so many times, it was permanently PWWT. I think on Halloween they made it either Pure White or black for a few weeks.

>>712417204
and the story is also just scraps of ideas littered around the game in item descriptions and stuff that you need an autistics youtuber to piece together

>>712416948
>People that actually like to git gud
Those peoples taste turned these games into a never ending difficulty arms war that From lacks the competency to do properly which introduced retarded algorithm fights & retarded enemy behavior.
Thats how we ended up with enemies going into a dance routines whenever a projectile is spammed, bosses who spend five minutes doing backflips or running away the entire fight & why item usage can be used to cheese enemies from them retard rushing you with zero contextual awareness.

>>712417308
literally nobody cared except OCD completionfags.

gamefaqs was also really popular back then especially for niche games like this which is why there is almost 84,000 threads made about it.

>>712417043
There are maybe two shields in the whole game that are actually good for that. It's basically an inverse L shaped curve of shield and armor effectiveness - basically useless until you hit the locus where it suddenly becomes OP. There are no mid tier shields, you're again just better off rolling. And that doesn't address the core issue of the combat - high speed tracking spam attacks and wombo combos being the norm on every single enemy, which encourages roll spamming. Watch any video of an elden ring boss fight, it's literally a roll every second. Meanwhile in DS1 you'd roll once every 5-10 seconds, maybe not at all on some bosses.

>>712417308
>If you died ONCE in human form, you were fucked and could not reach White
that's not true at all, you could get white with online co-op as well.

The upgrade material grinding was way worse, but most people just had someone drop them for them.

>>712417184
>People literally mocked how world design doesn't make sense
People who don't put any investigation into the world building, or at least didn't look at any one elses discussion maybe. Lore enthusiasts don't see any problem with the game though. Also time being convoluted doesn't explain away any crucial plot points its only about different characters interacting like summons and pvp.

>>712409639
the guy on the cover is artorias

>>712417254
>you see son, my games were better because they DIDN'T have any quality of life advancements

>>712396431
Backtracking is only bad if the areas aren't fun to traverse, DS1 is very fun to traverse.

>>712415973
>tail cutting
you mean the thing monster hunter already did years prior?

>>712417667
Never understood why people complained about backtracking in a game with 1. random drops 2. combat heavily based on environment where the encounter plays differently depending on what side you approach from

>>712417041
>heavy
No. Not even demons was heavy but it at least explained why you were there & why you would be motivated to go face powerful demons & die over & over. In dark you're a nameless undead with zero motivation outside of being guilt tripped into fulfilling a ridiculously brutal & challenging prophecy because apparently your character didn't want to hurt the feelings of a hollow. You don't even get asked if you want to commit to that like demons, the game just railroads you & leaves you with the option to either play the game because oscar did you a favor or don't.
>there is a big theme or religions being lies or churches being corrupt.
Demons had that but dark had like half a dozen vaguely defined cults & one faith based on that had one corrupt asshole involved.
The story is do a prophecy for dead guy because he was nice enough to let you out of your cell so you can burn yourself to death to become a hollow who stands there until the next person does a prophecy. You have no clue what that even does, you don't even know if the undead curse goes away, you don't shit about lordran beyond the big picture info in the intro. Land of lords, go sacrifice yourself it for oscar or become a dark lord, no explanation for what either of these outcomes does but you'll do it because you want to play the game & want to see the 2 second cutscenes.
Everything about the game is extremely anticlimactic compared to demons.

>>712417184
>People literally mocked how world design doesn't make sense
literally nobody said this, everyone said how their mind was blown going from the elevator in the parish for the first time. To this day, it's some of the best interconnected level design ever.

>>712417437
If you actually knew how World Tendency worked, you wouldn't be saying that.

>>712417585
>white with online co-op as well
I never could remember if it did. Either way, the servers in PS3 are out, I don't care about demake, and on the emulator, co-op is a no-go. So unfortunately, my previous remark is still correct.
>material grinding was way worse
Yep. Pretty sure the vast majority of the playerbase knew about the duping, and if you needed an item, you'd just post on gamefaqs and on neoseeker. The worst piece was the Pure Bladestone. Most, if not all the others, was acquired from playing the game. Picking it off corpses or completing questlines, which some required PWWT. PvP was completely fucked because of duping. Still fun though

>>712417171
>You have as much reason to run around killing everything that moves as like Doom Guy does.
I get that but I prefer demons because everything had a reason & the world had intrigue in a tangible way. There's not too many games that go to the effort of being logically coherent within its own universe the way demons did, it was unique & they threw it away.
I'll say this though, from what I've seen of bloodborne it looks like they did actually put some real effort into that universe & story so credit to them for that.

>>712417964
Heavy is relative if you think the game is light on story thats fine but don't pretend most of it isn't weighed towards the front. The opening cutscene is probably some of the most dense lore explanations you're gonna get.
Also worth noting that in game the chosen undead prophecy is known all throughout the people. Its never stated if when oscar tells you that canonically the first time you're character learns of it. Thats just the moment the player does.

NIGHTREIGN DID THE COMBAT BEST.

>>712416370
It was a rough draft for das which refined the core experience and actually gave a tangible narrative. DeS feels like a lot of random concepts and ideas thrown to a wall and hoping some stick, that people found them interesting is different than actually going in depth and connecting things well like DaS did. People hide behind muh higher difficulty(it’s not that hard) and defending the vagueness, as if it was some intentionally done thing.

>>712418009
i do remember people complaining how there's no way water could get into new londo ruins or how the taurus and capra demon got to undead burg. but thats about it and i dont think that even really counts

>>712417667
Fuck no. Every single fucking time you needed to upgrade a weapon, buy equipment, buy consumables, do something with a covenant, or update a quest, you have to make this mad dash across the world, trying to remember the exact convoluted sequences of doors, shortcuts, and hallways to get there, while simultaneously sprinting past all the enemies and hoping you don't get cornered and gangraped. It got old *very* fucking quickly and was incredibly grating and obnoxious. It was even worse since there was multiple merchants and blacksmiths with unique inventories and upgrade paths, so you have to go to one specific merchant and one specific blacksmith, and if you needed multiple items or upgrades, you might even need to go to two separate vendors.

It's sad because Dark Souls does have some genuinely great parts, but then I think of all the shitty zones and shitty bosses and the absolutely monumental amount of backtracking and I'm just like "nah, I'm good". I even went back to replay it just to see if I was missing anything a couple years back. I meant to do the DLC, but ended up quitting the game immediately as the credits rolled - it just felt like a total fucking chore in the way no other Souls game did.

>>712417283
No he's right, people were very critical of that aspect of the game when it came out, that & the fact the online that worked in demons didn't work at all on release. They also bait & switched on the limited edition & the download code for the soundtrack didn't work for many people for months, after a month of trying had to bootleg the soundtrack. The framerate was also blight town tier all over the game & important item descriptions like fire keeper souls implied you just used them as is which caused people to piss away a valuable item.
The PC launch was walking on sunshine compared to the original console release.

>>712418398
>DeS feels like a lot of random concepts and ideas thrown to a wall and hoping some stick
it was. The game was in development before miyazaki ever laid his hands on it. It wasn't some pure creation born of the mind of a man who wanted to revolutionize game design. He had to modify a game with prexisting parts.

>>712418529
People talk about blighttown’s FPS all day, but the WORST was when you went through that one part of darkroot with the hydra nearby and the frame rate just went to 5. A lot of people didn’t even bother killing it until the DLC because it was such a hassle with how sluggish the game was in that area.

>>712418423
Even if they did count there are explanations for them. One theory is that the demons agreed to split humanity (the sprites) with humans so their demons are there with permission and its just pretended they're strays.

>>712418649
its not fun even with the framerate fixed
t. funguy

>>712418398
No, it wasn't, at all. Demon's Souls got an incredible amount right the first time, while Dark Souls was one step forward, two steps back, and felt borderline unfinished.

>tangible narrative
oh, another retarded bandwagon lorefag from reddit. Feel free to kill yourself.

>>712418564
But it was the creation born of the mind of a man who had an incredible amount of freedom, no preconceived expectations, and no design by committee bullshit.

The only way in which Dark Souls could ever be seen as more refined is because the formula already existed once so the mechanics will seem less obtuse to a returning player. But to a first-time player, Demon's Souls is a far better balanced, paced, polished, and complete game.

>>712418716
its been happening a lot more lately that I am disgusted to be a part of this series fanbase

>>712418525
You’re reaching, the map is a lot smaller than most people realize. The only area I hated exploring and that sometimes stops me from replaying are the catacombs. If you’re not dying repeatedly it doesn’t take that long to navigate across areas. The being cornered and randomly ambushed by mobs is more of a thing in 2 than 1.

reminder that this was pulled from the AC6 datamining threads

Cant think of a more esoteric company than FROM

>>712418336
>>712418336
>Heavy is relative if you think the game is light on story thats fine
We're talking in context of comparing it to demons, the game dumps a big picture info then never expounds in detail whereas demons is vague & you learn all about the world, its inhabitants & most of the history bits are implicit in the game itself & not just text.
Take the slaves of boletaria, the game never goes out of its way to tell you anything about that aspect of the kingdom but you see it everywhere & its directly related to your immediate surroundings. In dark, there's just random shit with zero explanation, here's sens fortress, it was made for people to be warriors or something & go to anor londo to do something there, I don't know.
>Also worth noting that in game the chosen undead prophecy is known all throughout the people.
Except you the player & nobody has anything to say about it.
I mean this is all fine but coming from demons it was a huge letdown & honestly it was kinda worse that they bothered to setup all this interesting shit at the beginning then did nothing with it. If it was like 3 where it was like here's some assholes go kill them, it wouldn't be nearly as glaring, it was basically a tease.

Ok one thing I've never got: so the the stonefang tunnel is like supposed to be beatable as the second area right? The armored bugs though they take so long to kill even despite being able to kill everything around them normally. Was there supposed to be some trick to killing them that I just never got? They're not even that tough of enemies I don't know whats going on like where they just supposed to be timewasters or something? I at least eventually figured out that Dark intended you to go to the catacombs with blunt weapons, and preferably divine but I have no fucking idea what they were intending with the bugs.

>>712418649
Lmao I remember it looked like slow motion claymation killing the hydra when it first came out, it took a fucking eternity because it was running at a 1/5 game speed. I actually didn't even beat the game until several months later because I got so fed up with how janky it was & saw my friend beat it & nothing happened, fire spread around him & credits & we were both like, that's it? Thats the fucking game?
It was a lot better when I came back but god damn, my friend & I recommended the game to everyone we knew based on demons & boy that was a mistake. Cracked red stones would get used up failing to find a player to invade so no early PVP because it had garbage P2P, couldn't play co-op for the same reason, soul signs wouldn't even appear in each others game world it was such a fucking joke.
Ended up going back to demons to play multiplayer.

>>712419238
lmao this has to be fake

There isn't a single area in any soulsbornekinoring game whose the layout hasn't been etched permanently into my mind.

>>712419260
Wasn't it a literal item description that sen's fortress was a proving ground for knights though? Like I get thats the backstory of the place not what it currently is now or why its related to the undead curse but I'm pretty sure that was flat out said in an item. That doesn't even require theorizing.

>>712418878
Holy fromfag sissy clitty meltdown.
>autistic camera regularly spergs out
>limited weapon choices
>tedious grinding for materials
>pacing is bad so some areas feel
weirdly short and others tediously long
DaS improved on all these you ape.
I don’t care that much about the lore, but I’m not surprised a retard like you excuses poor writing.

>>712419524
physical damage isn't very good, but crush and peirce as okay-ish. but Magic is what you shouldve used. rips through the fucks like nothing. also weak to poison, but magic is faster. theres a magic falchion in Shrine of Storms you could use. their purpose was to block you. that's it. if they didn't take a bunch of damage, then its just another enemy. and as well the massive explosion too.

>>712419592
>we were both like, that's it? Thats the fucking game?
Why do people try to downplay the ending of the game when it was cool and nobody game a shit what was going on?

>>712419680
great hollow

>>712419524
Its been a long time since I played but I don't think you have to fight any of those in part one of that area. In part 2 you also can avoid them entirely & go straight to the boss.
Anyway pierce weapons do way more damage against them & soul arrows do a decent amount of damage. They're just slow moving tanks that barely attack & explode upon death, outside of the tunnel network where they block paths you can just ignore them. I don't even think they drop anything.

>>712419835
>>712414906

>>712396431
>It's honestly the weakest of the four Souls games
When DS2 exists.

Shame half of it is garbage

>>712419772
I'm a never magic user but you can kill them faster even with bad magic stats or unpgraded weapons?

>>712419961
Butterfingers, 2 is next to 3 so I can forgive you for that simple mistake

>>712419738
>proving ground for knights
I get that but knights for what? To become a silver knight to fight chaos demons? And why would you want to go fight chaos demons, what do you get out of it, do peasants want to make lordran great again? Why is that seemingly the only path to lordran?
The point is theres zero world building beyond that intro, I know more about foreign lands from item descriptions than I do about the place I'm on a quest to do a prophecy for.

>>712420025
mods that fix that

>>712420160
>why do people want to have a more prestigious job
I don't fucking know you tell me

>>712420054
not sure what you mean. if you mean having low magic skills and cast magic, a plain weapon, or a magic weapon, then the pure magic does more. But the magic weapon, the crescent falchion found in Shrine of Storms is a +1 already, so its good to go. it takes like a single minute to suicide run to get it. 3 minutes if you want to fight your way there.
the plain weapon is the worst way to go no matter what for those bugbears. there is an upgraded winged spear somewhere in Boletaria's Palace I think

>>712420160
Just to be knights in general. The war with the demon's was only temporary just a part of their history. Presumably they wanted to be knights for the same reason as people in our own world.
>The point is theres zero world building beyond that intro, I know more about foreign lands from item descriptions than I do about the place I'm on a quest to do a prophecy for.
I mean its definitely opaque. The was part of the design though. If we're talking in generalities. I think the intention of sen's fortress from the developers eyes it was to point players to the antics of seath the scaleless.

>>712419835
I don't understand what you're saying here. I wanted to be immersed in the world the game setup in the beginning & then its nothing & not even a cutscene showing what the prophecy does you just spent the whole game doing.
Fire erupts & fade to black with the implication you're just going to replace the silent crispy zombie you just killed. I don't know what there is to downplay, thats retarded compared to putting the old one to sleep or becoming the new demon lord in demons, you know what actually happens & what the result is in both of those endings. You linked the fire now fuck off & serpents praising the dark lord is garbage compared to those endings.

>>712420453
you link the flame to extend the age of fire...just like the game told you...

>>712420527
i think anons trying to say it was abrupt?

>>712420628
What did you expect to happen nigger? Scenes of thousands of peasants looking towards the sky their pupils dilating saying "oo I can see now" going out dancing in the streets and starting bonfires because they have so much fire to burn they don't give a shit?

>>712420792
calm down
im trying to make sense of what he was saying. if this upsets you so much, you should consider getting off the world wide web

>>712420826
k fine.

>>712420421
I know its intentional for us to fill in the blanks & I admit it is in fact my fault for expecting more & thinking the game would put more than zero effort into explaining why you're doing things & what any of it means but even in isolation on its own merits its kinda shit & a tease.
They can get hyper specific & detailed all sorts of details & characters in the game but everything related to your quest & general world building is totally blanked out. Its like its schizophrenic in what got attention to detail which made it very jarring to play through. I know quite a bit about artorias, his dog & his grave but the reason for keeping the flame alive gets no attention.
Simply put I really enjoyed the things it actually expounded on & wish the whole game was like that.

>>712419881
Great hollow is permanently etched after that one time I went in there before I got the lordvessel.

>>712420892
Because item descriptions indicate what items do, what people used them, where people used them and what was going on at those times. The intention is you kill a cool or scary looking monster thing in some fantasy location then learn more about it and go oh thats actually sad. Then main quest I feel like was left intentionally blank because its supposed to be a trick. I was the anon who replied that earlier so I don't know what more to say.

>>712420906
Oh really? Then describe every branch dropping route to get every item.

>>712420527
>just link the fire bro
>no I can't explain why your character or you the player should want to do that beyond doing oscar a favor & I won't elaborate
>btw your reward for beating the game is a 3 second cutscene of fire burning your guy alive so you can become a burnt toast hollow like the guy you just killed
I think thats garbage & describing the game isn't downplaying, if it was you'd have something to say that accentuates the ending but you can't because its just your guy being burned into a hollow for no stated reason.

>>712421106
>it was a trick to make you kill the burnt guy so you yourself could be turned into a burned corpse who stands there for thousands of years until the same thing happens to you
Yeah it was a trick alright, it was trick on me for expecting a climactic actual ending like the previous game.

>>712415660
Nah, navigating a treacherous environment with traps, clever enemy placement, and finding secrets and treasure abound is peak Souls.

>>712396431
>there is backtracking out the absolute ass

Dark Souls 1 levels are often very condensed and there's also not much backtracking required until you get the lordvessel so this is way less of an issue than you're making it out to be.

>key NPCs, merchants, and quest givers are on complete opposite sides of the world,

How is this a flaw? And how would you "fix" this?

>and the 1:1 scale open world just starts to fall apart at the seams as the game goes on, with giant empty hallways of nothingness to disguise loading screens, huge empty rooms just to make a zone mesh neatly with another zone, and multiple zones of complete filler that serve only to connect different areas together.

You're overexagerating this while overlooking the positive qualities of the interconnected world such as the adventurous and open feel and it gives the game. At least there's ambition behind these issues unlike the later souls games which just suck for absolutely no reason.

> It's no coincidence the two strongest zones by far, Sen's Fortress and Painted World, are both self-contained.

Standout levels like Undead Burg/Parish, Upper Blighttown, and New Londo Ruins (often cited as some of the best levels) are interconnected. Maybe it's just the case that the game has very strong level design in general? Which areas would you say are bad because they're connected to other areas, other than the obvious stuff like Valley of Drakes?

Honestly, I lose all motivation to keep playing Dark Souls 1 as soon as I hit Sen's Fortress. It's... fine as a level, but once you understand the mazes path, there's not much reason to keep on going through. Then it just becomes waiting or outright ignoring the traps. I thought the boss is just a weaker Tower Knight. And everything after Sen's Fortress just gets worse and worse.

>>712421325
I'd add cool aesthetics to that as well, part of why I think people hate 2 so much is the goofy art design throughout so much of the game.

I really like that the chosen undead doesn't temporarily stash his weapons when doing any of the gestures. I don't think any other FS game works like that.

>>712421537
>but once you understand the mazes path, there's not much reason to keep on going through.
That's true, I like anor londo even though its nothing special level design wise & really like painted world which I always somehow forget the layout of every time I go in. I always do the catacombs right away for the rite of kindling to get it out of the way & do everything up until painted world then quit.

>>712395760
>most complete entry in the series
Good b8

>>712421686
It really should be an option that can customized on a per gesture level, some look better with & some without.

>>712421537
Anor Londo, the painting, and the archives are my favorite parts of the game. I think the only area that really sucks ass is Izalith, specifically the copy pasted demon ass room and the area with the centipede demon. Even the demon ruins were okay.

>>712394997 (OP)
>the only souls game where each individual area is remembered by name and discussed heavily
The only area which is "discussed heavily" (sic!) is Lost Izalith. Not for the good reason.

>>712421735
Painted World of Ariamis is amazing, love the levels in that one. It doesn't have to stretch all over or connect to other levels, because it connects to itself like a proper dungeon. The verticality of it is nice, a few secrets, and a unique theme. As much as I didn't care for the game, but Dark Souls 2 had some of my favourite levels because of that verticality and connection in itself. Like Forest of Fallen Giants and Lost Bastille.

>>712421858
I don't much care for Anor Londo and definitely not The Archives. I personally don't really see how people can enjoy the other late-game areas.

Early Demons souls should have not been raped by Fraudetaka Hackizaki. It should have stayed first person and been a Shadow tower 3. Then Fromsoft should have gone bankrupt immediately.
The game industry today would be far better without souls cancer and early Demon souls would be a Naotoshi zin game and been better than every soulshart there is

>>712422350
very harsh
but I can see your vision

>shadowtranny seething again

>>712394997 (OP)
The rest do not have as memorable shortcuts or level setpieces

>>712422595
>satisfied by raw sewage
Get any standards

>>712422249
>Lost Bastille
This & painted world & this were my favorite pvp maps in each respective game, never thought about it but you're right but they're really layered that's definitely why I liked them so much.

You just know dumb faggots are going tk complain about muh second half again, second half is fine except for izalith. Tomb, archives and londo are all good levels and if you disagree you are probably a retard

>>712394997 (OP)
3D space is superior to 2D space. SOTN often blurs together in my mind (besides the music) but I can picture every area in Dark Souls 1.

>>712394997 (OP)
Because it was most people's first Souls experience

>>712423123
Closest thing to a modern 3D Castlevania was Bloodborne. The cane whip is the best weapon as always.

>>712423483
You dont understand castlevania

>>712422962
you can take solace in the fact that their shitty opinions don't matter one bit and that the game is still played and is influential today, almost 15 years later, and people still love it
I personally laugh at stupid faggots trying to nitpick a generational masterpiece and attempt historical revisionism, as if that would erase the decade+ of both players and game developers being enamored with it

>op makes a post about levels being distinctive and memorable
>responders just talk about dark souls lore and shit on dark souls 2 (again)
why do people come in here to rehash the same old dogshit opinions no one cares about just because its tangentially related to the game in question? like you think seeing this cover gives you free reign to list your own personal pet peeves?

>>712421301
Yes?

>>712421325
The traps are not fair.

>>712424783
>Needs a remastered version to add a bridge

>>712421401
>key NPCs, merchants, and quest givers are on complete opposite sides of the world
put them all in the hub area like demons souls?

>>712412992
Only the upper parts went to heaven, everyone knows it.

>>712421541
you don't like green zombie hollows with bald spots and ulcers bro? it's peak souls 2

>>712425046
Hub areas are contrived shit like everything wrong with bad souls games like this Diablo rip off town.

>>712425046
you mean how they go to firelink shrine after you talk to them?

>>712421537
For me its after you kill the bell gargoyles. Maybe the lower undead burg and upper depths if you didn't skip ahead and do those parts yet. Honestly don't like playing demon's souls that much outside of boletariat palace either. Don't know what would be so hard about making a knight game about fighting other knights in castles.

>>712421735
>beat the pinwheel
>its hard to get back up
>tomb of the giants right there
>almost no good loot outside of the one ember and its a pain to get without resting at bonfires
shame level design

>>712425249
I bet Iron Keep is your favorite DS2 level

>>712394997 (OP)
it has the best world design because miyazaki cared more about making it as a passion project homage to berserk than he did making it as a commercial video game to sell as a product
the answer is raw passion

the dlc was BAD

>>712421909
lurk more

>>712394997 (OP)
I remember every area in BB and ER tho

>>712425046
demons souls has multiple npcs not in the hub area

in dark souls most of the npcs return to the hub once you've met them then they disappear again, which makes the game feel like it's an adventure not just for you but for the other characters as well. putting them all in the hub would remove this feel so it's a sidegrade at best

>>712394997 (OP)
No clue what the lava place is called
Before izalith

>>712425485
Losing the firekeeper in ds1 was one of the biggest dick kicks ever because I wasn't smart enough to figure out how to get her back

>>712422249
>It doesn't have to stretch all over or connect to other levels
you act like it would be super hard to just stick it onto another level but they could have easily just put this behind the princess chamber and then have the dukes archives start after priscila's room and no one would have thought anything they just didn't do that for lore reasons.

>>712425579
>>712425485
Oh and I do mean that as a compliment. Boring games like DAS2 would never do some shit like that.

name the swamp

>>712422249
new londo ruins are goated

>>712423215
Yea and people would just replay this one waiting for others to come out. Now there are like 1000 souls games and 100 of them are made by fromsoft.

>>712425815
and this one is still the best

>>712420025

>>712425202
Yea and thats cool but not everyone goes. both undead merchants, ingward, queelana, crestfallen merchant, church guy, patches, rhea afterward, just to name a few.

>>712425714
Especially when as a new player and you have no idea what to once you reach firelink shrine. To be honest I dropped the game for a while because it was overwhelming at first, since I didn't play Demon's Souls before. Luckily I came back to it later and finally got my mind blown.

>>712425378
How is the design of dark souls any less commercially minded then the other games?(baring 2 he didn't work on that one)

Ai limit is a souls like? guess I need to play it

>>712426102
ingward and patches do, rhea goes to a very nearby area just take the elevator. by church guy do you mean oswald? yeah he's farther away but again just take the elevator and climb some stairs it's not that bad
in any case none of them are key NPC per se, only maybe oswald if you fuck up

>>712394997 (OP)
>Great world building
>Great level design
>No fast travel (for most of the game)
Simple as.

>>712425534
Its just called demon's ruins. No different then before you open the yellow gate.

>>712425579
Don't you just need to grab the drops and then the orb gives you a message once you enter the right room? I never figured out how to use the pvp items and fought lautrec just fine.

>>712426175
Because they didn't sacrifice their vision just to meet the "modern" audience expectations. Well it was mostly the case for Demon Souls, I remember an article that said that some Sony executive was sure that the game would bomb. It was a time when most games were staying to get casualised into oblivion because the editors wanted to expand their market. A game being punishing or hard was seen as a negative.

>>712415641
Couldn't tell you the story of DS3 besides fire fading and needing to link it. Never even grasped what an unkindled is. It was the beginning of the fall of storytelling. 2 was extremely clear with your motivation and what happened to each king

>>712425685
cesspool of the journalists

>>712426349
I forgot the mention the blacksmiths there are like four of them

>>712426369
Honestly they should have just kept no fast travel.

>>712426539
I know what commercially minded means. I'm asking how was the world design less commercially minded then the later games?

>>712425685
I would say New Londo but there were a lot more corpses than that.

>>712394997 (OP)
It's the only game where you could get lost in due to no fast travel. You HAVE to familiarize yourself with the locales in order to succeed.

>>712417043
No ER is not the best game for armor and shields. ER super heavy shield under a weapon art is only slightly stronger than just starting medium shield in DS1. And DS1 had havel shield too. a0ra

>>712424554
This but with people shitting on ds3

>>712394997 (OP)
No idea what you're talking about, pretty sure I remember ER areas better than DaS 1.

>>712426616
andre and rickert are close to the hub
giant is pretty close to the anor londo bonfire which is where most players would be stuck for longest i feel
vamos... well they did add a bonfire close to him in the demaster after you discover him, but he's a secret blacksmith anyway

>>712394997 (OP)
The design in the sequels became less inspired and more shit as time went on, culminating in Elden Ring as their ultimate amalgamation of fucking boring shit. I had to rush elden ring by the later half of it because it became a fucking chore to ride that piece of shit horse in the empty map with fake loot in it. Oh look I explored a place, I got one mushroom for it. Oh, now I got a flower. Now I got wood arrows. What a wondrous fucking adventure, it was totally worth ditching the traditional level design for open world shit. Demon's Souls, DS1 and Bloodborne remain their best games with Sekiro on the side as a whole other entirely different thing by itself. Fromsoft doesn't really try anymore, people just blindly worship them like it happens with everything else. I'll live long enough to see it happen to the expedition 33 devs too when they start to take a shit on the sequels and just fucking ruin all the good shit they had going. It's an endless cycle.

>>712426369
Thats also Kingsfield 4 and Shadow tower

>>712426859
Dark souls also had more fun enemy encounters since you were playing them multiple times.

>>712427062
if there's one thing i'll give nightreign is that it's the opposite of elden boRing because there's a fire under your ass at all times
i actually want to play it, as someone who has dropped ER three separate times, NR looks legit fun, though obviously not for the reasons I love DS1 to death for

>>712427059
secret blacksmith?

>>712426808
A 3D Metroidvania interconnected level design requires much more effort (and maybe money) than individual levels or zones designed separately, like what you can see in DS2 or 3. Most casual players don't care about that kind of stuff. Therefore you don't do it for commercial reasons, but for a vision.

>>712427079
those games sucked though

Everything Fromsoft made after it is complete garbage despite being a 8/10 of itself.

>>712424554
this but with people shitting on elden ring

/v/ has impotent rage about ds3 because it was the steepest spike in popularity for Fromsoft, simple as

>>712427386
ER is a trend chasing soulless product that shat on everything Dark Souls laid out.

>>712427293
They did not. You were just too incompetent

>>712426874
Shields and poise builds were fucking OP in DS1. Easiest way to cheese the game when you can't manage to git gud. I remember beating Artorias first try with that method, it felt really really cheap.

>>712394997 (OP)
The most iconic level of the whole series is Shrine of Amana.

>>712398727
It is our Ocarina of Time

>>712427440
true.

>>712427440
What about the fact that its a genre shift into rollspam?

>>712400443
>Dark souls 2 and 3 are a bit more muddied because 2 didn't correctly communicate it takes place in a mirror world and also sort of the past.
lmao WHAT?
Is this the new cope to make something out of the mess that is DS2?

>>712427550
I'm not a parryfag so I don't care.

>>712398727
*zillennials
Zoomers were on their daddy's Xbox 360 or the Wii playing CoD or some kiddy shit when this freshly came out and became a scene. Most millennials graduated college.

>>712427550
you know the most popular action game before this was god of war right?

>>712415924
Elden Ring is open world slop that shall not be compared to good games

But does your game have an area that triggers PTSD and makes people froth at the mouth just by hearing its name or seeing an image of it?

>>712427682
blighttown

>>712396431
>He thinks Sen's Funhouse is anywhere near Undead Hood
Your opinions don't deserve bandwidth

>>712427465
Using the word "sl*p* unironically means you're low iq brownoid btw.

>>712400443
>caring about Souls lore
holy shit just marry me, chad

>>712396431
And yet it's still a top 5 game.

Ds1,des,ds2 or Bloodborne is your fav = most likely decent, interesting human
Ds3 or elden ring is your fav = dopamine starved zoomer
Sekiro = weeb

>>712428865
nah ds2 = local crackhead or mental patient

>>712427737
everyone just skips it with masterkey

who was the big bad behind the evnts of the dark sould games i stillk dont ufnderstand was is it so obtuse

>>712429427
DS1 was mostly seath and somewhat gwyndolin

>>712429427
Gwyn is a little bitch who's afraid of the dark. All in all, the biggest hero of the trilogy is Gael, and the canon good ending is giving the painting lady the ingredients Gael sought for her, then letting the firelink cycle end.

>>712398612
Dark souls came out before tik tok.

>>712415181
>the final boss being the biggest disappointment in the game
this is what people who can't visualize the apple think

>>712429697
Lmao there's tons of teens arguing in this thread, most likely with DS3 or elden ring being their first from game. You had to be there for the release of ds1 to understand why so many people love it so much.

>>712419524
>Was there supposed to be some trick to killing them that I just never got?
Did you try the pickaxe? You can find it in that area. It shits on armor.

>>712429782
thats the bed of chaos bro not lord gwyn learn context

>>712429892
i will never forget the capra demon seethe threads. That fucker and his dogs took over /v/ for several days

>>712430053
Its a good boss with a tedious boss run. Honestly show how bad the level design of this game was.

>>712430053
Being told a week in that I could shoot the dragons tail for a sword.. getting stuck in the depths for multiple days, not knowing how to get rid of the curse.
I'm pretty sure any type of lore videos which are so popular now, only turned up with the dlc or even later.

>>712394997 (OP)
because it's the only one good, duh
jk there's also BB

>>712430129
the level design overall is absolutely fantastic, some of the best in the series. There's a few annoying runbacks but no game is perfect. Besides the bosses in Dark Souls 1 are fairly easy by today's standard. There's a reason Super Radahn has a bonfire right outside the gate.

just started playing this. When do I get a map?

>>712430252
Did people even speculate on lore reading item descriptions? Back when I played it seemed like there was already a compendium of every item related to a thing with the story fleshed out and nothing left to discover.

>>712430341
Only after the first vaati lore video which was like 2 years in? Most people didn't give a shit about the lore in game or read the descriptions themselves. Some stuff like vagrants only got confirmed years into the game. It also actually had a great PvP scene... (So did des tho)

was dark souls 3 the last one where people were able to make funny invasion videos? i legitimately have seen 0 for elden ring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJvEg_G4KBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ01LQYcwGs

would appreciate some links if there are

>>712430298
Just thinking about the carpr demon in particular you're only options are the easy way: tedious run through the walking sewer, then drop down that staircase room with the 1 dmg archer, then the long ninja hallway and dogs, or the hardway go through lower undead burg through the gate, even if you kill them pretty easily you have to take a lot of time just to block because the dogs don't fuck around and its cramped especially if you try to run past them.

>>712429987
@chatgpt what's a final boss

the runbacks are there for invaders
which elden ring has completely fucked over with marika shit and the world design

>>712394997 (OP)
how would you make it good?

>>712430756
elden ring should be the best pvp souls game purely due to level design alone and they completely killed it with retardation

>>712430496
You can't 1vs 1 invade in er. Baby mode where you can only invade someone in a group. For 1vs1 you'd have to be summoned by the red thing. This is fake souls PvP.

>>712430719
the final boss of the area dumbass

>>712432163
Thanks for the clarification which the initial post is lacking, proving my point

>>712417537
This just isn't right.
Most shields that look like they're going to protect you absolutely do.
Bosses in Elden Ring do attack more, but that just incentivizes you using a shield and leveling Endurance and tanking the hits.
This works even for Malenia, because you should easily be able to out damage any chip healing she gets. Especially if you go heavy and aim to break her posture a lot with great weapons.

>>712421197
Thats basically intentional, and is a message about the player mindlessly following the first thing they're told even if it would be obviously that linking the fire was a bad thing for humanity.

The thing is that shields in Elden Ring require commitment. People would use shit like a +0 medium shield at 20 endurance and wonder why shield is mediocre. And they hold up the shield all the time too, which absolutely tanks stamina regen. They also tend to forget that guard counter is pretty broken, which can break the boss's posture in 3 hits

>>712434639
>>712432918

>>712394997 (OP)
I remember and discuss Elden ring areas by name
into the trash this thread goes

>>712426874
The Shield Talisman is your friend.

>>712426175
honestly i'm just thinking of the connection between undead burg, darkroot garden, darkroot basin, valley of the drakes, new londo ruins, blighttown, and firelink shrine, assuming you have the master key
exploring these areas on my first playthrough was more enjoyable than any exploration i've done in any other souls game
exploration in the rest of the game is relatively comparable to the rest of the souls games, but these specific regions felt like miyazaki's true passion was on full display

>>712434639
>>712434710
Yeah, they do take some investment, just as any other weapon would.
No one is taking a +0 starter staff to the end game with 20 INT and wondering why their magic damage is ass.
But with shields, people expect to get all the payment with minimal investment.
Shields start off as good in the early game, but you should be upgrading them alongside your normal weapons and arms, and investing in Endurance for using it.
But if you do that, then you'll be able to tank just about anything the game throws at you.

Was this conversation was started by some fag who hid behind hollow soldier shield the entirety of DaS1?

>>712432448
Did you try reading the sentence before and after it? Sometimes that helps.

>>712395760
How does completely butchering the combat "refine" it? Dark Souls 1 has by far the best combat of any FromSoft game.

>>712414920
Literally not a single person thought that when Demons Souls came out. It was incredibly popular and gained a huge cult following as one of the greatest games of all time, which it is.

>>712435945
Um ok so were deadly premonition, melee, gunz, undertale, asuras wrath, lost planet, dead rising, most cult games needed some work done but were popular in spite of it

>>712396431
Thats just blatantly wrong. Vast majority of the areas and bosses are insanely good.
>there is backtracking out the absolute ass
This is a good thing because its backtracking only in the form of new shortcuts you found, retard. You never backtrack through an entirely explored area again with no new path to go on.
>key NPCs, merchants, and quest givers are on complete opposite sides of the world
How is this a negative? Zoomer ass complaints.
>and the 1:1 scale open world just starts to fall apart at the seams as the game goes on
No it doesn't.
>with giant empty hallways of nothingness to disguise loading screens
You mean in the one stage of Anor Londo when gods and giants lived? Retard. Yeah that might have something to do with the giant rooms. No area after it was like that. Besides Anor Londo is separated from the connected labyrinth like open world by a cutscene. What a fucking retarded zoomer.
>but some of the lowest lows
It really doesn't and nobody mentioned a word of any "lows" when the game came out. It was recognized by the world as a masterpiece through and through.
>you could cut out a good 30-40% of the game and it would be much better for it
Objectively false. Every area is important and needed in the game.
>It's honestly the weakest of the four Souls games
Ok now you're just trolling. Its literally the best FromSoft game by far and your "flaws" aren't actual flaws, you're just mentally retarded.

Dark Souls is easily the greatest game of all time.

>>712396431
Faggot. This game was incredible when it first came out.

>>712421325
it harkens back to dungeon crawlers of olde I loved it

>>712398612
DS1 level and boss design is unbelievably good. You are just a zoomer who wants handholding games.

>>712436443
TRVTHNVKE

>>712418525
And that backtracking felt insanely good. Anon, you're just a zoomer who wants convenient amusement park ride games. Maybe become a movie buff instead or something, you're obviously not into videogames.

Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring, aka zoomer core, fucking sucks and are bad games.

I want a Dark Souls universe spin-off about the age of the deep sea, which may not even be an action game.
I want Sekiro 2: Journey to the West.

>>712417184
Not a single person ever said anything like this lmao, the world design of DS1 is likely the most praised world design of any game ever. Are you ok retarded zoomer anon?
>And don't forget developers cope with "time convulted" to explain why story doesn't make any sense
No they didn't faggot retard, that line is Solaire describing why you can see other players. He is saying you see the phantoms of other you's from parallel timelines and even co-op with them because of time working convoluted in Lordran.

>>712436443
this is wrong because the best from game is AC4

>>712420025
Literally all of DS1 is pure kino.

>>712436443
>with giant empty hallways of nothingness to disguise loading screens
off the top of my head there are the dukes archive, sens fortress, quelaags domain, and elevators like new londo ruins, valley of the drakes (which is also a hallway from darkroot basin) can't remember if the demons ruins or depths to blighttown do it

>>712423215
Nope. Its objectively the best one by far, thats why. Its areas are all memorable.
Most DS2 areas are pretty memorable too but not enough for people to memorize their names.
DS3 areas are complete garbage almost every single one, thats why no one ever talks about the game.
Elden Ring is just a disaster.

>>712436624
*moonlight butterfly flaps into thread*

>>712436996
Dark Souls 3 is millennial core basically a decade old at this point

>>712437729
Boss rushing fiend spotted.

>>712394997 (OP)
>mfw I enter Valley of the Dragons for the first time
>mfw no face
Holy kino I will never forget

>>712437878
Its dogshit bro don't even try to pretend.

The game is good. I remember it fondly

>>712437615
Non-autistic people don't think "WOW THIS LARGE ROOM IS USED TO DISGUISE LOADING SCREENS, THIS IS REALLY RUINING MY IMMERSION".
Normal humans think "I bet this large room called Quelaags Domain is a boss room, I have to be prepared before I step in"
Go an hero yourself you mentally retarded sperg

The game's shit because I got pissed after hours of grinding dragon scales for the dragon from only for it to be trash

>>712437729
>>712438013
That boss was universally praised when the game came out. Still is.
Again, sorry you're a mentally retarded zoomer who got molested by his uncle and now you can only enjoy games made for mental retards.

>that moment you discover ash lake
No one will ever achieve this height again, will they?

>>712438303
>That boss was universally praised when the game came out. Still is.
>Yes please validate me everyone! I can't possibly stand up for my opinion on my own!

>>712438616
No because at this point its already been done before. A secret area behind a secret area behind two illusory walls in some downtrodden mass exploration area that plays like ass to get through on the other side of the map away from the boss you want to get to, with the spookiest vibe and some insidious lore implications? The closest someone else could get is having a new twist entirely. Some sort of secret character or item. Or something new.

>>712438650
nah the butterfly is good
unique arena, multiple ways of dealing with it
you're just gay

>>712438650
Who said I care about anyone elses opinion? My own opinion when coming across the Moonflight Butterfly was that the boss is kino. Just what majority thought.
You are just mentally retarded from being raped, what a homo.

>>712438924
either fire projectiles or you play the waiting game
>you're just gay
you wish fag

>>712438616
I had the same feeling when I went down to nokstella in elden ring for the first time, or found the area where Godwyns corpse is, or the three fingers, or ash lake, honestly there where a lot of wow moments when I first played Elden ring and I'm eternally grateful I went in completely blind

>>712439525
>ash lake
*lake of rot
Ranni's questline was the best questline From ever made

>>712439476
you cared enough to think about it, type it out, bring up unsolicited, use it as your only justification actually

>>712436443
Fuck no. Every single fucking time you needed to upgrade a weapon, buy equipment, buy consumables, do something with a covenant, or update a quest, you have to make this mad dash across the world, trying to remember the exact convoluted sequences of doors, shortcuts, and hallways to get there, while simultaneously sprinting past all the enemies and hoping you don't get cornered and gangraped. It got old *very* fucking quickly and was incredibly grating and obnoxious. It was even worse since there was multiple merchants and blacksmiths with unique inventories and upgrade paths, so you have to go to one specific merchant and one specific blacksmith, and if you needed multiple items or upgrades, you might even need to go to multiple separate vendors.

It's sad because Dark Souls does have some genuinely great parts, but then I think of all the shitty zones and shitty bosses and the absolutely monumental amount of backtracking and I'm just like "nah, I'm good".

>Objectively false. Every area is important and needed in the game.
You are absolutely fucking retarded. Either trolling or delusional. Dark Souls 1 babbies are the worst, just fucking retarded fucking bandwagon subhumans who cream their pants and ignore all the massive issues of the game just because it's interconnected. And boy, they better fucking love that because they're going to be running back and forth, back and forth, back and forth from one end of the world to the other through some of the shittiest zones Souls has ever had dozens of times throughout the course of a run

>>712438213
The point is the actual level design is much weaker. Most people who played Demon's Souls first at the time recognized Dark Souls as a downgrade in many ways.

When you actually look at the world layout, you realize why a lot of these areas fucking sucked, and that the best ones were free from those issues/restraints.

So much of the level design has to suffer for the interconnected novelty shit, there is a reason they never did it again.

>>712439717
>convoluted sequences of doors, shortcuts, and hallways
it's not that complicated, double-digit iq bro
>that last paragraph full of malding and shitting and pissing
lol

>>712439717
Couldn't you buy the smith boxes since version 1?

WHY DOESN'T THE BUTTERFLY HAVE 3 PHASES AND GAJILION HIT COMBOS

>>712436937
>theme park bad
>2 hour communte to work good
You're a fucking retarded subhuman and should kill yourself. Games don't need to include time-wasting bloat and tedium constantly retreading through the same areas you've already fucking been over an over and over again because the only fucking merchant who sells arrows decides to set up shop in the outskirts in Timbuktu.

That was actually a thing for over a year until they increased merchant inventory selection, but you're a zoomer bandwagon faggot who played it years after the fact

>>712438213
Ok bro I'm not the one who brought it up I'm just replying to a comment sheesh.

>>712436937
I agree with this anon, Elden Ring is the best soulsborne game due to how fuckhuge the areas are

>>712440317
or any engaging attacks or a suitable fight arena

>>712416346
Dunning Krueger effect: the post

>>712440317
Trvth nvke augur from nightreign is the best boss because he has like 4 moves and just plays keep away the whole fight
Fromsoft does it again

>>712440665
This was actually debunked but I guess you love discussing things you're uneducated about :)

>>712439717
Why did you repeat your bullshit? You already said these same copes that literally not a single other person in the thread agreed with you.
Can't you see your opinion is incredibly unpopular?
The backtracking in DS1 is universally loved, it felt amazing due to the 10/10 world level design.
>have to make this mad dash across the world, trying to remember the exact convoluted sequences of doors, shortcuts, and hallways to get there, while simultaneously sprinting past all the enemies and hoping you don't get cornered and gangraped
You are just listing incredibly good gameplay here and expecting people to think its bad. Get help, you are clearly a very tiktok brained zoomer who needs instant gratification.
>Need weapon fixed or upgraded? WTF WHY ISN'T MY BLACKSMITH RIGHT WHERE I AM AT NOW MOMMYYYY
Seriously go fuck yourself. Scum like you are what ruined games, and FromSoft was kind of enough to resurrect real videogames with Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1. Then subhuman trash like you proved that making objectively terrible slop like DS3 or Elden Ring is just more profitable. You are why games are dead.

>>712436937
Dark Souls literally is laid out like a theme park though, just with only one food vendor and one merch store in the entire park.

Demon's had by far the most thematically consistent and lived-in world. Dark Souls level design was way worse, it was just purely the novelty of "oh my science! I can see another part of the map from here!!"

>>712440547
How does it feel that every single other poster in the thread is LAUGHING at you for thinking backtracking in DS1 was a negative? You are completely alone in your deranged views.
DS1 world is not big at all, it takes a few minutes tops to run from Blighttown to Andre the blacksmith.
You're a clown.

>>712416418
And that intended way is terrible design, while in DS1 its top tier design.

>>712441015
when did I say it was a negative schizo? I like Elden Ring

>>712440982
No zoomer. And by the way you haven't played Demon's Souls just because you have played the muttmake. Thats not the same game.

>>712440881
The gameplay is soooo good that you even get to retread it dozens of times in a single playthrough. I love it. Just doing the same area over and over and over every time you need a covenant or a single item or upgrade. So much fun, totally not autistic.


Demon's Souls had much better level and world design that actually respected your time and didn't just bloat the playthrough with tedium. The hub and spoke design was far better and let level design shine as the whole world wasn't crammed in one giant zone 1:1

>>712440881
>Can't you see your opinion is incredibly unpopular?

>anons who've never played DS1 or Demon's Souls arguing which game is better

>>712440660
>any engaging attacks
Because it isn't a straightforward combat encounter and it's unique that way
>or a suitable fight arena
Because if the arena isn't narrow its attacks wouldn't be threatening.

>>712441231
I played and platinumed the original in 2009. You should kill yourself zoomer bandwagon subhuman.

>>712441270
You seem incredibly stupid. Vast majority of players didn't return to Firelink more than a couple times before Lordvessel. Once when you take the elevator down from Parish, once when you take the elevator up from Blighttown.
You must have really sucked at the game to have to go back there dozens of times for some reason.

>>712441319
sitting on your ass dodging spells while you wait for it the mount the bridge is not good game designs, if anything that's the Elden Ring problem of
>when do I get my turn to attack?
and remember bows in DS1 where shit so unless you where running a spell build you where fucked
can't fucking believe there's retards on here defending the objectively worst fight in DS1 and maybe in any soulsborne game

>>712441358
You're literally the one bandwagoning, DS3 baby.

>>712441319
Its incredibly straight forward all it does is shoot and all you do is dodge there are barely any attack types it switches between and its not like you have to guess either the telegraphing is really long or you could just back up with virtually no consequences

>>712441489
Vast majority of the bosses in DS2, 3 and Elden Ring are worse than the Moonlight Butterfly.
You're just very stupid, anon.

>>712441298
>anon whos never played elden ring takes it for granted that its bad game design

>>712441435
I went there because it was cozy.

>>712441638
Explain how they are worse.

There are chunks of Elden Ring that still preserve the layout complexity of the previous entries like Stormveil, Leyndell and Farum, but by the gods, what happened with the rest of the game? Did they outsource Raya Lucaria, Redmane, Volcano to complete newfag level designers?
All of those have the same issue of unsatisfactory turbolinearity with barely anything to even explore.
Do mind that ER came after DS3 which had some of the biggest individual areas in the entire series

>>712441489
>the objectively worst fight in DS1
Because it's not the bed of chaos you mong. And unlike the bed of chaos the game would be worse off without the butterfly due to there being nothing else like it which is why it's worth defending.
You Elden nogs need to appreciate that not everything is the same boring fight.

>>712441638
this is next level trolling

>>712441875
Bed of chaos is based because it's big and cool
Moonlight butterfly is shit because butterflies are cringe
also
>no bringing up Manus
You didn't play the game, you'd have a case to make if you mentioned him because he was shit and probably worse than moonlight butterfly

>>712441994
Bro the butterfly is an actual fight, not a good one but it is one none the less.

>>712442085
nuh uh, it's a punching bag that spits at you

The moonlight butterfly is cute. CUTE!

>>712442150
and bed of chaos is a stage hazard

>>712442203
it's bascially sen's fortress 2.0

>>712394997 (OP)
I still remember DS2 locations names

>>712442197
ugly as shit, gay as dick.

>>712442268
Must be tough being an elephant.

>>712396431
It was the last time I truly lost myself in a game world.
I can see its flaws now, but nearly 15 years ago now it was magical and no critique no matter how rational can take that away.

are there any action rpg games with the souls aesthetics of hopeless and dread but without the rollslop gameplay?

>>712442538
Dark Souls 1-3 with a broken circle button on your controller.

>>712442538
drakengard?

>>712442490
there are people who will say this and believe it's a valid point but will shit on zoomers whose first soulsborne game is Elden Ring and loved it for the same reasons as why people back in 2011 loved DS1
it's all personal feelings and vibes, these discussions are pointless as fuck but at the end of it all despite how much you liked DS, it did far more harm than good to the gaming industry

>>712442772
>but at the end of it all despite how much you liked DS, it did far more harm than good to the gaming industry
Only because of parryfags. Also partook in the normalization of DLCs

>>712442772
No because they could always play dark souls 1 before that there was nothing you could play.
>it did far more harm than good to the gaming industry
ignoring your pearl clutching histrionics this statement is just dumb, no one at from forced developers to make bad games because they couldn't accurately understand the souls formula. Also that takes away nothing from the game itself. Bad games will be forgotten dark souls will live on.

>>712442852
In the way players actually wanted. Giving you new content not shitty micro transactions that give you dumb pop culture skins.

>an absolutely phenomenal game is made
>developers, indie and AAA, take inspiration from it for decades to come
>some of their games are better, some are worse
>"HURR DURR THIS GAME RUINED THE INDUSTRY"

imagine being this much of a retarded fucking nigger

>>712441435
I said backtracking not "backtracking only through Firelink Shrine" you illiterate retard

Even with shortcuts a single vendor will run you 30+ minutes round trip. And God forbid you die while sprinting nonstop through a half dozen different zones, it doubles that time and potentially loses you all your Souls making the while trip in vain. And all this just to buy some arrows or upgrade a weapon a couple times or buy a spell.

Dark Souls is the type of game that would only become fun on repeat playthroughs when you know the entire world layout like the back of your hand. But that works for short, dense, fast paced, replayable games with deliberately placed key NPCs, not sprawling 30 hour RPGs with massive maps where key NPCs you need to interact with regularly are scattered at the farthest reaches of the world, and a single death means even more backtracking. Dark Souls is far too large, bloated, and with too many shit zones for that style to ever be fun. But again, some people just basedface at the interconnected world and will ignore all the massive gaping issues purely because they can see another part of the world.

>>712443359
who the fuck travels thru the entire dark souls map to buy fucking arrows or upgrade a weapon or buy a spell? you're just making up unrealistic situations to justify your retardation

>>712436443
Oh my based....

>>712443552
people who need to buy arrows or upgrade a weapon or buy a spell

>>712439717
Most retarded opinion i've ever seen. I bet you want all the merchants and smiths right next to each other in a hub world so your retarded little brain has more time to consume tiktoks

>>712443692
>buy arrows
tough shit, use a knife instead g, buy your arrows next time
>upgrade a weapon
should've bought the box. "but i need to upgrade it to +6 at andre" should've done it before heading off wherever, dumbass
>buy a spell
"durr i know i'm like on the other side of the world but i want to buy a spell and i need to do it NOW" - nobody who has played this game, ever

>when the wife wants to have sex but you need to buy some consumables before you log off

>>712443359
People speed run the ENTIRE GAME in an hour and you're telling me it takes 30 minutes to get to a vendor?
Which vendor?
Even skeleton vendor can be gotten to in about 5 minutes from Firelink.
The only vendor you need before linking getting the lordvessel is Andre, and he's super accessible unless you have stuck yourself in Blight Town and are too dumb to get out.

>>712444182
to be fair he did say roundtrip (so hes going back to his starting point) is probably fighting mobs, and speedrunners actually have the game routes optimized to save time they wouldn't go a certain way if it was slower. I'll agree that 30 minutes seems a little ridiculous though.

>>712443984
>3dpd

>>712444621
>when the chatbot wants to simulate sex but you keep asking her to route your merchant paths

>>712399281
>aren't really clever and they don't interconnect in fun ways like they do in DS1
Inteconnection in DaS1 isn't really clever or "fun". But it makes sense. And often there is a few ways to get to areas. In SotE, there is a lot less paths that loop into other areas, I think, considering that the world is open and you have a jumpy horse. Plus, it's still Elden Ring, so you have giant open spaces filled with fucking nothing. At least it looks much better than the vanilla game.

>>712444826
Kekeke

Is there a non from soullike that actually has an interconnected world?

>>712445010
>Inteconnection in DaS1 isn't really clever or "fun"
nigga never kicked the latter

>>712439717
>>712441270
>>712443359
you'd get through the world quicker if you didn't stop to write a butthurt essay about how much of a fag you are every 10 seconds

>>712445098
not a single game, soulslike or not, is even remotely as good in terms of world design and interconnectivity
but you could say metroidvanias have them
and megaman zero 1 has a small interconnected world in which most missions take place, even if it's not designed as a metroidvania you can still traverse familiar places outside of missions

>>712445454
anon I don't think hes playing the game right now

>>712440853
someone's mad lol

>>712441868
Raya Lucaria and Volcano are good though. A good chunk of the academy is optional so most people miss it. And not to pretend that the previous titles don't have shit areas

>>712445527
Ok how about good soulslikes with a bad open world?

>>712445579
someones an idiot lol

>>712445693
elden ring, and most likely code vein 2 in 2026 lol

>>712400443
>You don't actually take part in the world's true events, you access a twisted memory of them.
That's not true. Access through lake doesn't mean anything beyond "you go through a lake portal". It's still a place. Also, it's not the past, it's the future. You're mixing things up because you probably have original story in mind, but it's really different and incomplete to us.
Also, DaS3's story is also a rushed slop. Quite a lot of things are use "hurr time is convoluted" to hide the inconsistencies that were left when the game was reshuffled. It hides inconsistencies better than DaS2, I guess, because of the nature of the story.

>>712445625
Dark Souls doesn't.

>>712445834
thats a from game and what about code vein 1? Always wanted to play it I liked the girl with the big boobs

>>712445903
Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep well at night

>>712445625
>Raya Lucaria and Volcano are good though
Raya Lucaria is a straight hallway with a minute long run between two bosses. It has none of the mystique or ambience of both Archives. Both of its side paths are short and unsatisfactory.
Volcano is literally unfinished on top of being the same dreadfully dull straight hallway.

I miss the era of DeS and pre-PC DS1.

>>712445880
I never delved much into the lore but it took me forever to realize that 2 was even connected to 1. I thought they were separate universes like final fantasy, or demon's souls I guess. Weirded me out when not only did 2 not give an explanation to 1's ending but didn't even take place in the same place.

>>712446047
Helps me sleep with your wife.

>>712445994
code vein 1 is pretty linear. there are some instances where one level connects to another and you can take on a certain boss before a different one, but that's about it
it's a really fun game though. i recommend using a partner because it's cheap as fuck and some ganks are bs. the game was designed with an npc helper in mind
you need to do a decent amount of exploring on each level to get the true ending
cathedral is a filter for the weak

>>712429427
No one, they just needed a new chosen to link the fire and its all a big elaborate test

>>712446420
who is they?

>>712446228
What I liked about DaS2 was that the events of the first game took place so long ago that almost no one seems to remember them anymore, then DaS3 comes out and goes
>Yeah turns out everyone is the know about what happened in the first game and no one gives a shit about whatever the fuck happened in the second game lmao here's Anor Londo
I really wish this trilogy was better planned

>>712396431
>there is backtracking out the absolute ass
It's good Metroidvania-style backtracking. It's cool to go through some random door and find a path linking back to a previous area. Nobody sensible takes issue with this over the lazy teleporting the franchise started taking by 2.

>>712447086
Lazy teleporting which enabled them to make a finished game.

>>712446731
Like seriously I know they were working on separate projects but you're telling me no one could go across the building to talk to miyazaki and either get his approval or just flat out ask him what he would have wanted to do?

>>712446228
>I thought they were separate universes like final fantasy
There was no reason to think that. The story just takes place in a different location, but the game constantly tells you about events of the DaS prologue. Events of the first game don't get a lot of focus, but it's pretty obvious that the CU linked the fire and everything happened exactly as it was going to happen, according to the world's rules: fire fades and undead curse pops up.
>>712446731
>lmao here's Anor Londo
I actually liked that. I just wish that Miyahacki wouldn't cut the story up for no fucking reason, only to give us semi closure in DLC with "it's time to create something new, lmao", even though original DaS3 had a lot of different and unique mechanics that were cut in favor of their DaS1 versions. And then ER happened, which is just DaS3 with horses and it's story is also a gutted mess.

>>712447086
also backtracking allows you to reexplore an area and often times try out new equipment. People forget that there are tons of hidden items in this game and most people want to just clear the boss or are worried about losing souls on the first play through.

>>712447329
That was not the issue that gave them trouble in the first game.

>>712396431
Walking in Dark Souls is fun

>>712448630
go outside fatass

>>712442772
Name a game that improved the industry.

>>712394997 (OP)
Demon's Souls was the same before the Demake dropped.

>>712449541
super mario 64

>>712448771
You are movie bob

>>712450581
Why

>>712443981
Wow, it sure is convenient that you always have exactly what you need at every moment in a game with a large map.
You aren't being disingenuous at all.

>>712450890
>got my estus
>got my sharp stick
yeah?

>>712451027
>sharp stick
>not big blunt club
didn't beat the game

>>712451027
>>712451226
>playing melee
Disgusting.
Dark Souls is a pyromancer only club.

>>712451535
If you play non-melee, use a shield(regardless if it's to block or parry), or level up DEX then you didn't beat the game.

>>712444182
That's because they backtrack to the absolute minimum and cheese every boss you utter retadd. Played normally you backtrack dozens of times

>>712446684
the longnose tribe

>>712394997 (OP)
Anal Rondo and blight town are legendary.

>>712394997 (OP)
I like Dark Souls 3 more

>>712446731
>What I liked about DaS2
If you liked Dark Souls 2 story, you don't like Dark Souls story. Dark Souls 2 retcons Dark Souls and was rendered non-canon by DS3

>>712414920
>DeS feels like a rough first draft
And despite maybe a handful of egregious errors it got DOZENS of things basically perfect on the first try and those errors were quickly corrected in the sequel.

People who didn't play DeS when it came out truly don't understand how much of the series is still drawing from the same questlines, characters and settings for future inspirations. I understand shit like Patches existed before then, but it still created so much. This is why when people say DeS is the best, they don't mean its literally perfect, but it added the most new, unique things of any souls game. They have never had as much of a leap in any game since what DeS introduced as a whole. Dark Souls was very close, since it branched out more but was ultimately more of a refinement to DeS.

>>712445880
>Also, DaS3's story is also a rushed slop.
Wrong

>>712453860
>the archers have just as much notoriety as any boss
>never even named in game people just call them "the archers" and everyone knows what you're talking about
good game design

>>712454238
time is...convoluted...

>>712454238
People who like DS2 only like it because it was their first, literally.

>>712453860
Poison swamp did it first and was way more memorable. When you played Demon's Souls first instead of being a bandwagoner, you realize just how much it copied from Demon's Souls, and just how much of a regression it was in many ways

>>712454238
oh hell nah blud just disrespected peak souls 2 :skull: watch domo3000, git gud and stop watching youtubers

>>712454382
Obnoxious archers, coprodemon killbox, Bed Of Crap, longass runbacks, half-finishes levels ...
yet everyone still loves it and hates DS2, wonder why

>>712396431
what a shit nigger take. Ok retard, the masterpiece that kickstarted the whole franchise is actually a bad game. Thanks for the insight ADHD zoomer retard

>>712454238
I shit you not, this is the first time someone actually put into words how I feel about Dark Souls 2.
The world is just... Not that interesting in the first place?
Like Dark Souls and Dark Souls 3 you can actually feel they tell a continuity across their world, and then Dark Souls 2 tries to establish their own but fails. Lordran and Lothric are striking. Drangleic is just weak. It doesn't feel like it's an actual kingdom.

It's like you go at the theater and the scene has furniture to represent a room but you can tell it's not a room, just a setpiece for a play

>>712454352
>it got DOZENS of things basically perfect on the first try
Imagine making a vertically oriented level and not implementing any form of drop or even jump attack.
Couldn't be me.

>>712455207
uhm ackshually the game that kickstarted the franchise and the whole genre was called doki doki moongrass souls (10.000 units sold worldwide)

>>712455262
but nigga majula doe??? yo that shit PEAK ya feel me cuh?

>>712441868
Hating on Volcano Manor means you have shit taste and are a retard

>>712416346
Skill issue

>>712394997 (OP)
For the longest time I thought the cover was him charging at us and I'm disappointed it's not.

>>712455207
>what is Demon's Souls
Kill yourself zoomer shitstain

>>712455456
called it
>>712456161

>>712398727
It's probably more closer to their OoT. Roblox is their Mario World.

>>712454352
>the series is still drawing from the same questlines, characters and settings for future inspirations
If any other company did this they would be called lazy as fuck

>>712455897
Hating on an area so unfinished they didn't even establish a clear physical route to the boss is absolutely normal.

>>712456269
Demon's Souls was an instant cult classic and gained a very positive word of mouth that led to a huge underground following and even eventually millions of sales even before Dark Souls even released (didn't come until two years later)

You are a zoomer shitstain revising history despite the fact that you were still shitting diapers when Demon's Souls released

>>712416346
You'll anger the Elden Cringe defence force lmao

>>712426174
I turned left..... And missed the Zwei.....
And since I went blind and played demons soul's I figured, yeah they definitely cranked up the difficulty in this one. Then I got raped by everything, specially by the wheel skeletons, Vamos bonfire didn't exist on release. Got raped by bone beasts and when I got cockblocked reaching Nito THAT was the moment I thought, mmmm,maybe this wasn't supposed to be the starting area. Then I went to the Undead burg and just started laughing at the absurdity of it. Still proud I powered through.

>>712396431
>A good quarter of the zones and bosses in Dark Souls are abject shit
I don't know about abject, but they're not good.
>there is backtracking out the absolute ass
Nah.
>key NPCs, merchants, and quest givers are on complete opposite sides of the world
So?
>the 1:1 scale open world just starts to fall apart at the seams as the game goes on, with giant empty hallways of nothingness to disguise loading screens, huge empty rooms just to make a zone mesh neatly with another zone, and multiple zones of complete filler that serve only to connect different areas together
True.
>Dark Souls has some high highs, but some of the lowest lows, you could cut out a good 30-40% of the game and it would be much better for it.
True.
>It's honestly the weakest of the four Souls games
Still way better than dogshit 2.

>>712456390
Retard, Rykard is under the lava, with the pillars raising until they flood the Manor

>>712415636
>Almost no one back in the day knew or cared about the WT system
man imagine pretending you played Demon's souls at release and not having the guide book that came with the game that outright explains all this.

>>712399483
The level design (pacing, gameplay, layout, polish etc...)/and enemies in the Archives, Demon Ruins, Izalith and Tombs suck donkey balls.
The Kiln is a terrible final zone and the DlC has awful and boring level design

>>712455207
why do you keep samefagging this post

>>712456728
If only they did bosses with passages under lava before

>>712426546
Come on Anon. The story is pretty straightforward. The first flame got so weak it last for months now and sometimes the one trying to link the flame doesn't even have power to ignite the spark, that's the unkindled, people that didn't have enough souls to burn the flame."unfit even to be cinder". And it got so bad that they got those rejects trying to link the flame

>>712416346
>Ever notice how in Dark Souls 1, you could simply strafe and position yourself outside of enemy attacks?

>>712396431
You're gay

>>712426874
This nigga doesn't know about Shield Talisman + Barricade Shield. It trivialize everything. I even did a Promised Consort Run with the Dorito and the Antspur rapier and it still worked. I can't even imagine if you use the fingerprint shield

>>712418878
>But to a first-time player, Demon's Souls is a far better balanced, paced, polished, and complete game.
Like hell it is
I'd rather do Lost Izalith thrice than have to go through world 5 once, most of the bosses suck ass and the game encourages cheesing because of the unforgiving runbacks

>>712399846
Going back to Anor Londo after Elden Ring was so refreshing. It's a short, clean area with a few paths to explore and good items. Yes, the Silver Knights with bows are stupid but it's the funniest filter in gaming.

>>712456932
????

>>712429892
Bruh I wasn't even looking for Demon's Souls when it came out, I was looking some obscure nip forums looking for fan translations of Rapelay and the nips were praising this game like it was the second coming of Christ.. There was one dude that was trying to explain the old monk and the invasion mechanic. So... You get into people's games, kill them and gtfo? The guy was explaining early griefing mechanic with the scraping spear and throwing people off ledges or luring them into mobs. I was hooked. Nobody even knew how it would change us forever. But there was that feeling. And then Dark Souls happened. And gaming changed forever.

Cathedral of the Deep is the only memorable area in the entire series