Thread 713125005

>I'm supposed to believe that Maelle can perfectly revive Lune, Sciel, Gustave and Pierre (whom she never met) but she can only shittily clone every other person that got gommaged away. All so that the Verso ending can artificially seem as good as the Maelle ending.
These Frenchies are absolute hacks. Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 is HACKville.

obvious bait thread to keep the last thread going. i approve.

I’m going to kill your friends. Then your family. I’ll make you watch your brother die—just in case it might inconvenience me someday. After that, I’ll lecture my father on the meaning of family… before I kill him too. I’ll lie to you about everything—your actions, their purpose—because explaining the truth is hard, and I’d rather you unknowingly destroy your hometown, loved ones, and comrades.

Remember my sister? She wants peace. She believes we can talk things through. She wrote me a letter full of hope—one I’ll never share. I’ll convince her not to kill herself, all while making her life so miserable that staying becomes the crueler option. I’ve had 100 years to accept these fake memories of a man I never was, and even though you all support me as my own person… I’ll still kill everyone in Lumiere for the sake of the woman who created me.

You’ve forgiven me—again—for everything. So I’ll hesitate briefly. But Alicia once lied to Renoir after getting 16 years of chaos injected into her brain, so naturally, I must now kill you all. Clearly, there were no alternatives.

Now: suicide. It's morally grey, and totally for her. I mean, you saw what happened with Aline. The Dessendre tried nothing, and it didn’t magically work out. So that’s proof, right?
It has to be, otherwise I would have to think back on the time I gaslit and killed my girlfriend over a minor misunderstanding I did not even try to explain.

We’ll never know who’s right. Just endless fog, ambiguity... and a piano.

>Game is already a 10/10
>Would be twice as good if they didn't run out of budget by Act 3

>>713125061
Alright, you got me. I just had a lot of fun with that thread and don't want to let go yet.

>>713125132
Versosissies... Our response?

The developers care too much about the family drama and muh grief. I spent the entire game with these people and I'm not gonna kill them for the sake of family bonds of some shitheads that are all cunts to each other.

>>713125241
Alicia...

It is sad to watch all these video game addicts who are so addicted to their fake (painted) worlds, they choose waste their life to play games forever in their delusions than to truly live.
Even when a great game like Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 aims to persuade them to choose to live. What a sad existence.

>>713125005 (OP)
The Maelle ending is very sad because someone who is actually intelligent would see the message; these smiles and laughs are meaningless because they were painted by Maelle to be the way she wants them to be in her little sandbox painting. Which is totally depressing about her mental state of delusion and grief. But it is concerning that many players would also choose delusion themselves.

>>713125005 (OP)
>>713125132
Escapism isn't healthy

>>713125608
If Maelle is just painting people to be happy, then why is she seemingly incapable of doing the same for Verso? You just want to take their agency away to try to justify the Verso ending where he genocides them all.

The writers were right

>>713125005 (OP)
chroma

>>713125698
Verso is the exception, he can see through the fakery of the painting. This was demonstrated in Sirene. (picrel) >>713125608

>>713125608
My video games don't have real people in them. They're all backstories that were inserted by the authors of the game. Lune, Sciel, Gustave, these people have real stories that weren't painted by the Paintress. Because they're real people that just happen to live in a world made by a magical goddess.

>>713125825
Been a while, but didn't Lune see through Sirene's fakery too? Yet she's ecstatic in Maelle's ending.

>>713125770
Ligma

What did she mean by this?

>>713125838
I thought part of the twist that would get revealed in Act 3 is that they are also all clones of random people Aline knew.

>>713125978
She's so fucking cute.

>>713123949
They inverted that with the Nevrons. Like every other journal was like "What if we could live among the Nevrons" and you see some good Nevrons but then it turns out Nevrons are literally designed to just kill and suck Chroma out and the "good" ones are flawed.

Is Maelle a brocon?

>>713125838
They aren't real because they can be painted/controlled by painters. They exist for them.

>>713125825
And Lune and Sciel and pRenoir and pAlicia, etc. The painted beings are alive and sapient. Denying that is a bitch move because you can't deal with the actual weight behind the decision in Vero's ending. Pure faggotry to deny it.

>>713125005 (OP)
This games' message flew over all your brailets head.

It is about the modern multi cultural world and how women are being delusional savior complex karens. Think about it, the mom wants to keep her little diverse utopia alive while everyone in it is slowly dying, including herself. Inside the utopia the dad is seen as the big bad but he sees the "big picture"...get it? the "big picture" and is only trying to save france from these lunie lefty women and hordes of savages.

Same as maelle.she just graduated college and became a lefty idiot thinking the same way as her mother. But the reality is france is dying and everyone in it. The only way to save it is to wake these women up.

The dad ofc is the good guy.

>>713126113
Actually pretty based when you think about it
>>713126020
People in the painted world are birthed from parents, so that's unlikely. Maelle is a special case.

>>713126153
meds

>>713125916
No she was also charmed with images of her parents. Verso is the only one who wasn't which saved the whole party by breaking Sirene's magic.

I picked Verso because he's cute

>>713126124
They cannot be controlled by painters. The game makes a point of saying this. Stop speed reading and put your fucking phone down next time you play it.

>>713125005 (OP)
This goddamn motherfucker ruined every chance at a good ending.

>Let Gustave die so Maelle couldn't be talked down from expelling Aline
>Withheld painted Alicia's letter so nobody would know why the Gommage happens
>Withholds the truth from the party so they'll see the expedition through
>Continues to hold in when he decides to erase the canvas

At any point along the way, this motherfucker could've arranged for Maelle to use a piece of her soul to continue painting, for he himself to be unpainted, for the canvas to go in and Maelle visit it anytime she wants.

He fucked everyone.

>no Maelle animations yet
What the fuck are all the Blenderfags doing?

>>713126125
The people in Verso's ending are literally gommaged already by Renoir. Then Maelle paints some of them back. If they can be brought back and then vanished from existence like that then they are not real, they are merely NPCs that exist for the world to "seem" lively.

>>713126276
>>713126376
What do I tell my barber so i can achieve this hairstyle? Do I give him a picture of Verso?

>>713126406
>If they can be brought back and then vanished from existence like that then they are not real
Nonsensical logic

>>713126434
Is your face as chiseled as Verso's?

>two photomodes
>abundance of mods
>90% of threads is just ending shitposting
I think this game is a failure, culturally at least.
I can't even pivot to stellar gay because of muh denuvo.

>>713126376
>...art can be a Window and art can be a Mirror. And great art. Great art is both. Son, you'll never be a true artist if there's always a mask between you and the viewer, especially when the viewer... is you...

>>713126296
>They cannot be controlled by painters.
They are literally snapped out and in of existence by them bro

>>713126810
Human beings aren't real because women can birth them and kill them

>>713125005 (OP)
Maelle can perfectly revive Lune and Sciel, because their chroma was still living due to being gommaged. It probably helps that Maelle personally knew them.
Gustave's recreation is imperfect, because his chroma is dead. Seeing not-quite-there Gustave and Sophie is probably torture to Maelle, and will get worse over time.
Pierre's recreation is likely way off, since his chroma is dead, and I don't think Maelle knew him. You can see on Scielle's face during the ending that she has mixed feelings about the situation.
Lune, however, actually seems happy in Maelle's ending

>>713126492
Yes that is true, they are just drawings in a canvas, not real people.

>>713126879
>Pierre's recreation is likely way off, since his chroma is dead, and I don't think Maelle knew him. You can see on Scielle's face during the ending that she has mixed feelings about the situation.
This was not my read.

>>713125005 (OP)
>All so that the Verso ending can artificially seem as good as the Maelle ending
>as good

Verso's ending is much, much better.

>>713125005 (OP)
Devs should've let both endings have the same feeling instead if clearly making staying as the "bad" ending. Verso should've died as he wanted and the rest of the inside people would be shown to be happy. Maelle has a cough or headache for a second before going to enjoy her time with the rest of the gang.

>>713126870
Lol you are desperate

Really sad to see people play the game and refuse to accept the ultimate message. I pity you, not because of your opinion on the game, but because of your descent to become and addict to escapism.

>>713126879
>because their chroma was still living due to being gommaged
And why isn't the other gommaged people's chroma still living, then? Are we headcanoning some sort of expiry date?

>>713127020
>Ending that is tragic and bittersweet, but may lead to happiness down the line
>Ending that is almost perfect, but has a sense of wrongness
I think they're very well balanced

Expedition Zero DLC when?
Verso killing his girlfriend when?
Simon going crazy and slaying the Axon when?
Painted Clea getting buckbroken by regular Clea when?

>>713127336
>Prequel DLCs
Soulless

>>713127336
prequels don't make sense because you wouldn't have the lumina converter

>>713127020
You just missed the point of the game, the writers made the game to offer a positive life message but you still reject it.

>>713127213
I don't think it's fully explained. One reason might be that Maelle can only fully bring back gommaged people she knew, as I proposed.
Other explanation might be that she can't support that many "full" painted humans due to her lack of skills.
Maelle's weak skills as a painter is a point that should be remembered. For example, if she was as good as Clea, she could paint over Verso and make him enjoy the piano mines

>Finished the game today
>Looked up the French song lyrics thinking I was gonna get extra context
>All of them so far are gibberish even in French
>Not even the main menu theme was actually being sung in French

>>713127521
just like my niers

>>713127521
Gibberish lyrics is one more thing From Software inflicted upon the world

>>713126406
They obviously have thoughts and minds of their own. Literally the only difference between them and "real" humans is the origin of their respective worlds. Hell, the people inside the painting even reproduce sexually.

When they enter the canvas, do they become their painted version?
If so, how is there both a painted version of Alicia (masked) and actual Alicia (Maelle)?

>>713127670
The endings wouldn't be nearly as interesting if they were just fakes

>>713127336
The DLC should be me banging Clea while Maelle watches in the cuck atelier.

>>713127793
>When they enter the canvas, do they become their painted version?
No. All the painted versions were created by Aline

>>713127521
No, this can't be true..... even that spoken word track you find in the white sands post-game area?

>>713127213
If I remember right, Renoir was collecting/absorbing chroma. She could have reached their chroma before it was absorbed into the mass Renoir was building.

>>713125132
Not sure what the "good" ending is. I feel like the devs wanted players to see it as the Verso ending, but even if it is I despise this dude. Way too many people defend him because his ending is probably preferable, but there being no actual good ending is his fault.

>>713127268
>a sense of wrongness
That could be the rest of the people being npc or Maelle getting sick. But they decided to make it Verso being forced to play the piano. The wrongness should've been on the world being fake, not if the characters are actually happy. Forcing Verso to live wasn't what the choice was about.
>>713127450
>missed
>rejected
Those are kind of exclusive there, anon.

>>713125132
>hmmm yes. I'll now enslave my dead brothers soul and kill myself to play in my VR dollhouse

>>713125132
Gustave DESERVED to die. No one wants to admit this.

>>713127921
There is this line which adds some questioning into it:

>Well done. Maybe you are changing.
>Let's see how do against a proper drawing.
>You should recognize them.
>From my past experiments.
>Let's see how far you've come.

Then you face Renoir and Aline together (Forma de sin cara)

>>713126786
i'm dumb i didnt understand it

>>713128020
>Forcing Verso to live wasn't what the choice was about
Maybe not for you, but keeping Verso alive was part of the deal Maelle wanted. Maelle probably thinks that Verso can get over being suicidal and just live happily with her if she just gives him time and a little push

>>713127934
I haven't gotten to all of them. Got to the Linen and Cotton one now. This one is actually normal lyrics (In English)

>>713128258
It's just neat that the Axons spell it all out:
Aline's Axon
>You speak to me of perfection, but is there really any such thing? Or is it a siren, leading us astray. I happily predict that neither of us will ever summit that elusive peak, but I care little, as long as we walk together. Art gives us the perception of control. For a moment, as I paint, I find order among the chaos. That is, for me, a moment of pure contentment. And that is truly better than perfection.
Meanwhile, the axon is about dancing happily in a fantasy where you just relieve your memories of your loved ones forever
Verso's Axon
>...art can be a Window and art can be a Mirror. And great art. Great art is both. Son, you'll never be a true artist if there's always a mask between you and the viewer, especially when the viewer is you...
Meanwhile, the axon is all about deception. Shows that Verso being deceptive throughout the entire game is not a thing created by his painted version, but an essential part of his personality that got replicated here. Who knows what lies real Verso weaved?
Maelle's Axon
>...people come and people go, the one who will always be there for you is you. Little one, there's more to life, if you can just see how big the sky truly is. Reach out your hand, and it's yours...
This one is more of a stretch, but I guess it's simultaneously about her being too ambitious in wanting to achieve shit like keeping the canvas going forever, and also an indictment on her wanting to live in her closed walls of the canvas escapism instead of reaching to real life.

Finally, there's Renoir's Axon. That one is a giant being weighed down by a town. Renoir explains it at the end after you beat him. He was originally lost in a canvas that was crushing him and it was Aline who saved him.

>>713127268
Couldn't agree more.

>>713128281
>Maelle probably thinks that Verso can get over being suicidal and just live happily with her if she just gives him time and a little push

That's what both of them think about each other. Maelle says repeatedly she doesn't want to live outside the canvas, and Verso insists that she'll change her mind in time.

It's also why after The Reacher, Maelle says with such certainty that painted Alicia wouldn't change her mind about wanting to die.

>>713128257
Who's saying that?

>>713125132

>Getting GenAI to write a post for you

Jesus CHRIST anon get your shit together

>>713128684
>Finally, there's Renoir's Axon

That was Clea's, and was about how she carries the world on her shoulders instead of letting others share the burden.

But otherwise you're spot-on. Especially about Maelle's, it's a caution about her being too ambitious. Especially given Maelle's line about "he KNOWS I have vertigo," said like "ugh, my dad doesn't get me". You can almost hear the sound of his message go zooming past her head at that point.

>>713129223
That was Clea's, and was about how she carries the world on her shoulders instead of letting others share the burden.
Oh, duh. That makes more sense. Cheers, anon. I feel like I vaguely recall someone saying that in the game, but I don't remember where. It's not in one of the journals, I don't think.

Omelette du gommage

>>713125132
b-b-based

>>713128684
how do i get intelligent like this bro

>>713126720
>keep licking

>>713126786
why does everyone seem to love this lying sociopath, even after his death. Was he just really that good of a liar?

>>713129905
That's real Renoir, not painted Renoir

>Lyrics of the first boss battle foreshadow the end of Act 2 and beginning of Act 3
SOVL

>>713129646
1. You form a hypothesis (What is the first thing that comes to your mind, no matter how dumb)
2. Critical thinking. Critisize your hypothesis: Is it really correct? Is there something that proves it wrong? Is there something you need more information about?
3. Think of a better hypothesis, and repeat the previous step with it.
4. ??????
5. Smartz

>>713131507
Not that anon btw

>>713131625
Sorry, wasn't my intention to pose as that anon, I just wanted to help bro out

So, was Goblu a dropped plot point?

If you are a versosister and talk about this game in any thread, you missed the point the game was trying to make.
For me I prefer dying happy in delusion, rather than live depressed in reality.

>>713131857
No, it's a red herring.
Maelle recognizes him because she obviously recognizes all the big paintings.
He only attacks people if you fuck with his flowers.

There's a similar misdirect when Scien seems to recognize Esquie, but then it turns out it's cause he saved her

>>713131857
Most likely. I'm guessing they left it in, because it works as a misdirection. It's mostly just the characters making assumptions anyway

At the end of the day the people in the painting arent real so Maelle can do what she wants with them. Maelles dad was going to destroy the painting anyway which would've killed them all.

>>713126406
>>713126905
Lumierians are real - in the context of the game. They are just as real as we are - in the context of real life. We create technology, form bonds, go on adventures and self perpetuate, same as them. Even Renoir acknowledges this - he finds it despicable to have to choose such an extreme eventuality but finds it necessary for Aline and Alicia. We could be Lumierians, but the key distinction is that our creator who can unalive us is merely unrevealed.

If a God shows up today and says he is killing everyone - how would you respond?

>>713132092
>If a God shows up today and says he is killing everyone - how would you respond?
Versocucks would genuinely go "Ok :)"

>>713125978
>pathetic

>>713126879
Sciel always looks like she is mildly uncomfortable - there is something wrong with how they designed her face.

Watching some of the cutscenes back after finishing the game. God tier foreshadowing. I love properly done twists like these.

>>713125978
Just a bit of darkening at the top of the eyeballs would make them look so much better

>>713125005 (OP)
All the characters in this game are fucking ugly and uncanny except the asian chick

>Stopping time is a thing
>STILL questioning whether the time flows differently in real world and canvas
The IQ of some people, I swear.

>>713125005 (OP)
>>713125132
>STILL mad
kek

>>713125005 (OP)
>>713126879
The revived expeditioners were faulty because they were made by low quality chroma in general.
There seems to be no real connection between the husk were the chroma was extracted from and the revived person. She could revive Sciel and Lune without defects because she used the rest of her high quality chroma.
But canonically they were in a rush and couldn't easily farm high quality chroma or hunt down another Axon.
In the Maelle ending she just gathered high quality chroma before resurrecting everyone.

>Inexplicably has one of the best themes in the game despite being a joke boss fight
>Theme is reused literally nowhere else

>>713127934
That one is actual poem in French.

>>713132420
It makes the second playthrough amazing - but the first playthrough plays like a non-sensical Zanzibart fest, plot and pacing wise. They could have made it better and less about confusing and confounding the player - I admit I had to trudge through it because all clues dropped were so obtuse.

>>713132478
They're uncanny, but I don't think you can expect much better from a mid budget game going for realism

>>713132779
>joke fight
That little nigga hits like a japanese truck.

>>713132720
What are you trying to convey with this image?

>>713128684
>Meanwhile, the axon is about dancing happily in a fantasy where you just relieve your memories of your loved ones forever
It's not that quite that negative, IMO. I feel like the Axons are sort of passive-aggressive and reflect Renoir's perspective on different painting styles more than the current fight. Aline is a realist who tries to recreate the world perfectly, so all of Lumiere and all the painted characters are her art. Renoir prefers abstract and symbolic art that doesn't try to convince you it's real, so he portrays her painting as a trick. Then Verso creates pure fantasy and believes in it despite not trying to be realistic, so to Renoir that's him wearing a "mask". His dig at Verso applies to, like, classic JRPGs, early FF games, all pure fantasy that kids like. But Verso in his Flying Manor dialogue calls it "a celebration, like music" which is a much nicer interpretation.

Alicia's is purely positive and just about artistic ambition, IMO. And I don't think any part of the game is supposed to be made by Alicia so I figure it's a statement of Sandfall's ambitions, framing their future games as Alicia's attempts to reach the sky and create a true Great Work.

>>713132828
I thought the plot was very easy to follow even on my first playthrough

>>713132828
After meeting Esquie I suspected something along the lines of FFX's Faith Dream World, but I didn't see the Maelle isekai reborn plot coming. It's still weird how exactly the masked Maelle fits in. Her subconscious?

>>713132940
>>713132743
>>713132092
>>713128684
"tableau maudit... toile d'une fausse vie"
If you are obsessed about this game (or any game/virtual thing) and talking about it in detail.
you missed the point of the game

>It's totally a "100", dude, the smoke is just obscuring the 0
NO! This is some sort of dropped plot point or something that just wasn't expanded upon.

>>713133116
that's painted maelle, the one that aline painted along with renoir and verso inside the canvas

>>713132917
he's trying to make you mad.

it's obvious the writers couldn't decide how to end it so they just decided to make it a choice because they knew it would spur discussion and controversy. Multiple endings are gay and I thought with the rest of the game returning to a well crafted mostly linear experience we could get away from this multiple ending nonsense that has been plaguing gaming for decades.

>>713133116
>It's still weird how exactly the masked Maelle fits in. Her subconscious?
No, Aline painted her. She painted everyone other than herself into the world. And because she had spite towards her, she let her face stay burned. Pretty mean.

>>713132420
It really does recontextualize everything in the game. And jesus Verso is such a brazen motherfucker on reflection. Almost makes me wish we had an ending where the canvas can keep existing after Alicia leaves just so Verso can keep coping and seething forever.

>>713133129
good thing /v/ only talks about non-videogame related things these days then

>>713128247
Why, though?

>>713133267
>>713133316
Ah yes, I was so flashed by the reborn in the canvas plot that I kinda forgot about the Alicia painted doubles per se.

Someone defending the Verso ending in this thread used "unalive" completely unironically so I now know the Maelle ending is factually the superior one.

Reminder that The Writers are actually good guys and they're trying to stop the morally repugnant practice of the Dessendre's family creating entire worlds full of sentient life forms only to kill them when they get bored of them

>>713128873
nta but iirc that's Clea in Endless Tower, just before the 33rd battle.

>>713133692
I feel like the writers are gonna be doing the exact same shit, though. Only in writing instead of painting. Actually, the writers will be worse because they will mind control people's motivations. This is the sequel.

>>713133691
That guy was defending the Maelle ending albeit

>>713133692
I wonder if they included the Writers to have a thread to connect to in a sequel because the fire could have had other origins.

>>713133836
CO:E33 actually part of Alan Wake and Control? 100 years in the past?

>>713132743
Yeah, after Renoir gets booted out, Maelle should have access to all the chroma she would need to do things properly. That said, the whole process is frankly rather vague, so a lot of it comes down to whether you give Maelle's side the benefit of the doubt and I understand why some people are inclined not to. They could've stood to be a bit more explicit about it all, since it's fairly important to establishing the stakes of the decision.

>>713134082
The only indication we get that the process isn't flawed is at the very end when some people have weird white colored clothes. A little bit too late by that point.

>>713128932
>all em dashes are AI
Go read a book

>>713133836
Well, we don't really know. For all we know they could be like the D'ni from Myst who believe that by 'writing' a book you're not creating a world, but merely linking to one of an infinite set of preexisting ones in the multiverse. Well, I say mostly, because there were some D'ni who believed that they *are* gods of the universes they wrote, creating them from nothing, but they were considered monstrous for doing so.

Come to think of it, I wonder how popular Myst was in France. I have a hard time believing that E33 wasn't at least influenced by it.

SNAKE

>>713134183
They practically are on the internet

>>713125005 (OP)
You don't know that she perfectly recreated Pierre lol. She probably did it over much trial and error with Sciel's feedback, essentially killing all failed attempts, and even the final version isn't really the person Sciel knew. It's a fucked up fantasy she's living in.

>>713134180
I'm honestly not sure if we're really meant to read into that or if it was just the devs being a bit lazy with a brief panning shot. And I say that as someone who leans towards the Verso ending.

>>713133216
cute Alicia but

Middle zero is probably being obscured artistically, kind of like the black hole things with the ring of light around them the titular 'clair obscur' light dark

>>713127521
>>713127934
There are several songs in proper French. Off the top of my head there's Une vie a t'aimer, Sciel, Lune, and Maelle (main menu theme given intelligible lyrics)

>>713132949
the plot was easy to follow for the expedition plotline. But the deeper meaning behind it and Verso's journey (ie the Painter drama) was kept way too secretive imo - there were breadcrumbs but it was only though dialogue that doesn't make much sense without knowledge of the true nature of the world and the familial conflicts behind the scenes.

>>713134580
Well, good, cause that's pretty much the only thing that makes me question choosing Maelle's ending. The idea that she's not actually reviving people but creating more copies like >>713134561 suggests. Essentially recreating the whole Doppleganger Verso Effect.

Everything else, like Maelle killing herself, and Painted Verso/Soul Verso suffering, are ok in my book.

>>713132940
Not entirely sure about this, though. There's a dialogue in Renoir's drafts where he talks about Aline losing her sense of artistic distance, and how now she "doesn't care about her art, only what it can do" or something like that. To me that could be a critique of, like, tumblry Bioware writing? Or a lot of contemporary bad writing by women, honestly. Maybe Renoir is based after all.

>>713134926
>Maelle (main menu theme given intelligible lyrics)
KINO

>>713133691
that's me, tell that to my face bitchboy

>>713133836
>>713133962
Sandfall are the Writers
they literally killed Verso to jumpstart the conflict

>>713134246
the Painted/Painting story was literally a dream experienced by the head writer

>>713135129
I think it's about 'high art' (English and Art major types) looking down on genre fiction writers or pop artists and the like.

>>713135393
>>713135539
If that's the case, is Clea 'warring with the writers' a metaphor for the head writer jerking off to Clea R34 then?

>>713135539
Which one? The nepobaby or the Asian woman?

Maelle-sama?!! You've come back to the painting?!! After I tried for ONE-HUNDRED YEARS to try and save our mother from KILLING HERSELF in a FICTITIOUS REALITY that she TRAPPED herself in because she couldn't HANDLE the fact I BURNED TO DEATH saving your life?!? Huh?!? You've decided to keep this TROLLEY going FULL STEAM AHEAD?!? And you will NEVER let everyone in Lumiere find the PEACE OF DEATH despite being born in a DEMIURGICALLY DOOMED WORLD that the STRUGGLE for caused human SUFFERING unrivaled by even the FORGES OF HELL?!?! Instead of MERCIFULLY letting this ABOMINATION die, where a bunch of power-tripping RETARDS played GOD with human lives over PETTY FAMILY DRAMA, you're going to TRAP and BETRAY the last VESTIGE of YOUR BROTHER's SOUL to save a CANVAS that is POWERED PURELY through DEMIURGICAL TORTURE?!?! The same BROTHER who SACRIFICED HIS LIFE saving you from an AGONIZING DEATH out of his LOVE for you?!?! WHAT?!?! And to add INSULT to INJURY you're going to make me watch Painted Alicia, Clea and Renoir DIE HORRIBLY, and despite FORCING ME AGAINST MY WILL to ENDURE in this world for your own EMOTIONAL BENEFIT, you're not EVEN going to BRING them BACK in the END?!?! You will NEVER let me find CLOSURE with THEM??! You want THREE brothers and my personal happiness would GET IN THE WAY OF THAT?!?! And to make things worse for me you're not even going to bring Julie BACK FOR ME?!? The same Julie whom I LOVED and am HAUNTED in my NIGHTMARES for harming?!!? You're going to let her stay DEAD?!?!?! You don't CARE ABOUT or UNDERSTAND my feelings in ANY CAPACITY, despite EVERYTHING I, no WE, have done for YOU?!?! And if you STAY HERE you will DIE thus rendering my SACRIFICE utterly POINTLESS?!?! Well what can I say but YABBA DABBA DOOOOO! WHERE'S THAT PIANO?!!?

>>713135975
I assume she brought Julie back.

People dont die when you turn off your video game

>>713135653
Renoir is very High Art, but I don't think Aline is just "genre fic". Literally in the game she's a formerly-great artist who fell to her current level where her art is basically an emotional crutch for her. She's also painting over Verso's canvas, though, which implies genre fic, and maybe doing it partly to provide an escape for Maelle? So at a big stretch maybe you could say it's like, the way a bunch of probably-talented Hollywood writers switched from making realistic movies to overly-political capeshit? Something like that. However you slice it, it sort of rings true to me as a take on the state of "art" in the 2020s

>>713136057
I read another anon saying that she can't bring people back if they died outside Lumiere. Only the people that got Gommaged.

>>713127839
shut up simon before i gommage you again

>>713136127
Then how was Gustave brought back?

>>713135909
asian woman, Jennifer Yen is the head writer.

>>713136127
There was an entire real post Act 2 about running around collecting the essence of all the people in the entire world who got murdered

>>713136203
Sorry, I meant to say "Killed by the Nevrons", since their whole deal is sucking up Chroma and all. Gustave was killed by Anti-Gommaging Renoir. It's different.

>>713136101
I keep saying "writers", should be "directors" here

>>713135812
an anon said Clea was supposed to have a larger role in the story. so we could infer that the war is actually her fighting for her place in the narrative.

>>713126434
My barber told me a guy once came in and showed him the main character from that Viking show and asked for his haircut, so at least one other guy has done something like that.

>>713136237
You think Lune's parents are back too, then? We didn't see them, but she seemed ecstatic. Maybe they just didn't care about watching muh piano.

>>713136147
one of the most beautiful and sexiest characters ever created

Sex with Maelle. Missionary position while intimately kissing.

If you actually cared about Maelle you would have selected Verso and immediately Ascending Assault her.

She can always make a new world in which she will be happy and be surrounded by friends. Preferably this world won't have humans that experience existential angst in it and will have things that experience living the way Orks from 40k do similar to Gestrals.

>>713136101
Based on the history of the dev team I wonder if the entire game is a metaphor for what they went through. You're stuck at Ubisoft working on a Might and Magic mobile game (painting over the canvas of a previous artist, now subverted). That fragment of you that is an artist wants to leave and create something new, but you have obligations not only to your own financial well being, but to your co-workers. Even as they are gommaged from your life from layoffs or retirements, you still find yourself sticking around out of a sense of obligation and because you're afraid of change. Until you finally man up to quit and finally do your own thing.

Well, not really a one to one metaphor, but maybe some elements make sense idk

>>713136796
I don't care about Maelle or Verso, I care about the people inside the canvas that can't just get out and want to live.

>>713136147
Pure sex.

>>713137253
SHE'S ONLY 18 YEARS OLD YOU SICK FUCK

How come all the characters have such giant heads?

>>713125005 (OP)
There's no reason to think they are 'clones' unless you really need to devalue their lives to feel better about the Verso ending, and even then better to just pretend they were never real.

>>713138340
Verso himself is a clone. It's just a question of if Maelle can reform the exact same particles that got lost in the gommage or has to recreate them.

>>713136367
When I was like 15 or 16 I showed the lady at great clips a picture of Light Yagami and told her to make my hair look like his

>>713138806
When I say 'clone' I mean like a copy constructed from Maelle's memories. They obviously aren't because Sciel and Lune clearly know things that Maelle wouldn't. It's also apparently the same particles since her finding Sciel and Lune's has her recognizing those as she says "I can see them."

Renoir deserves a break after all that, fuck the canvas

/v/ is too autistic to understand Verso. This is the truth. You motherfuckers cannot read human emotion at all.

>>713139645
Writers are pretentious faggots. They are unintentionally pro suicide. Great message there retards

>>713139645
enlighten us please

>>713125005 (OP)
it's ultimately a question of the rules of the world's magic system, which we can't definitively answer because it's made-up French nonsense. the only real assessment you can make is whether or not you think whatever it is she does is "worth it" or not. Are they real, are they "real enough," does recreating them bring them back entirely, etc. You see lots of posts that say things like "the answer is X because [details of the magic system that I made up]" or "ah, but if you have media literacy, you can clearly see that [the ending I chose] is the right one," but the whole point is that it's a judgment call. the "right" answer is whatever your mind/heart/soul/ass shat out at the end.

>>713140216
Remember the dead merchant and monoco saying he can come back to life but some of him will be lost forever?
That's the game right there answering your question.

>>713139859
>muh it's all fake I'd rather live depressed in le REALITY
vs
>based schizo chad living happy in the delusions of his own making.

>>713140552
Also verso ending is him forcing his choice on everyone, the "made up" fake people and the real ones also.

>>713140369
that answers whether it's worth it or not to you? one person could say that makes them a different person, and another could say that makes them another version of the same person. it doesn't answer anything, it just adds perspective to the question. the final call is still the player's own judgment alone.

It's also different from the painting/gommage because one is the fundamental magic of the world while the other is something kid Verso made up within his Canvas using said magic in ways we never learn about. So, yes, [details of the magic system that I made up].

If they made a game about writing, what should the power system be like?

>>713137345
that does not stop me from wanting my face between her legs for every hour of every day

>>713140852
in my head canon verso is depressed and disappointed for maelle in her ending since he can see through all the fake shit she probably made since she's basically in control of everything I assume.

What are we to make of Sciel and Lune's facial expressions in the Maelle ending?

>>713141102
that's more like it. I didn't see it that way myself, but I don't know if I'm right and you're wrong, or the other way around, or we're both wrong or what. but as long as you're aware that it's all ultimately your best guess, then that's fine since that's all either of us can give. the question remains, then: is that a price worth paying for that ending, in your eyes?

>>713140369
FYI the devs were actually asked about this in an interview and they said Lumerians dying isn't the same as Gestrahls dying.

>>713141595
not that guy, but did they? I'd be interested to read/watch that.

>>713140552
I don't understand

>>713140719
the Maelle ending is forcing her choice unto Verso too (who is the closest there is to a Creator of the world)

>>713141719
https://youtu.be/yB-nPIBW-Ks?t=3093

>>713125005 (OP)
>[blank[ but with parrying and dodging so its more soulslike!
i fucking hate fromniggers so much, the amount of damage these faggots have done to the entirety of video games is near EA levels.

>>713140882
people would be made of letters instead of chroma, I suppose? they'd call it prose or something. and if "prose" is the fundament of reality, magic might be "verse."

>>713142283
from Souls being the second coming of Christ, to now treated as EA tier.
/v/ has come full circle

>>713142681
>something was good for a bit in the late 00's
>better just copy it and incorporate it into everything forever
soulslike is the capeshit of video games, you cant even fucking deny it.

How many wins will this game get at GOTY awards? Obvious GOTY and OST are a lock, but what other categories are there?

>>713126376
What is with people not understanding that this painting had a piece of Verso's soul because he was the original artist and put a piece of his soul into it naturally. There is no replacing that bit of Verso's soul, and the ending talking about how he wants to stop and is tired is because that "spark" of art is being used and manipulated. The story is a tragedy. There is no "good ending" to grief.

>>713141367
anything to make maelle happy. That's my ending, die happy in delusion rather than live depressed in real life.

>>713125005 (OP)
Nowhere does it say that the other people she brought back are "shitty clones".
You can fully bring someone back if you have their chroma.

>>713135121
>essentially recreating the whole Doppleganger Verso effect
Remember the conversation Monoco has regarding reincarnation? It seems to be consistent that bringing things back is imperfect due to them being based upon a memory. They are being painted, after all.

>oh no im having sex with sciel and lune and playing the piano daily im suffering noooooooo end it pls

what the fuck is wrong with verso

>>713143000
if i told you he didn't want "le blue pill" would that be simple enough for your reddit brain

>>713143068
the real red pill is that the canvas world is exactly the same as the outside world

Continuer à t'aimer
Continuer de peindre
Tendre la main et t'implorer
Reviens

>>713142801
it's just a phase anon, it will get revived in 15 years with an additional gimmick from the latest fotd. It will have a better story and people will rave about it in daily threads.
no need for the online vitriol

>>713142965
there is no strong evidence to either side. it's mostly headcanon and personal preference.

>>713143068
Except in his case the red pill is just killing himself. More of a black pill.

>>713143325
I'd say that Sciel remembers trying to drown herself is pretty strong evidence to her not being a "shitty clone" since Maelle would have no way of knowing that.

>>713142632
I wonder if they're creative enough to make things mechanically unique instead of a writing reskin of painting.

>>713143394
that's because she knows the essence of Sciel and Lune, as a close friend - I assume whatever gaps are filled in by the person revived. That's just as plausible an explanation, instead of it being an ultimate kind of creation magic.

>>713134561
>>713142985
>>713143325
>>713135121
There is literally zero (0) reason to suspect that the people Maelle brings back are incomplete or brought back only how Maelle wanted. Sciel and Lune know things about themselves Maelle did not. Same is true of Aline regarding painted Verso. Argument refuted.
Gestrals obviously work differently since the river is part of the world, not a god intervening.
The game doesn’t even humor the contrary opinion. Pay attention.

Why is it wrong to lie to NPCs?

>>713138841
lol same but I was 12 and I wanted my hair to be like L's. The fuck was I thinking? How is this even achievable? And it looks like shit!

>>713143572
I imagine it would be a twist on the same system, for the meta reason that that system is part of what made them successful. Whether or not that twist would actually be good or not is anyone's guess.

>>713139210
But then why the hell did the frenchies confuse us with the colorless half-painted NPCs in Maelle's ending?

>>713143605
In all those cases the repainted people are people they know intimately.
pVerso says that in order to repaint someone - you have to focus on the essence of their being. How do you focus on the essence of someone you do not know?

>>713139798
Is it even unintentional? There's that other Nevron where to get a Pictos, not only do you need to aid him in his suicide, but you need to do so immediately. Even slightly doubting yourself and questioning his decision has him get pissed at you, tell you to fuck off and not give you a reward. I lost on a picto cause of that, and kept going with that save even after seeing the alternative just out of stubborness. Bullshit decision.

>>713140216
But how the magic system works would genuinely affect my decision in a major way.

If Maelle is just making clones, then I'm much more likely to choose Verso's ending. She's not conserving that much, she's just recreating it.

If Maelle is reviving people, then Maelle's ending is the easy choice.

Ultimately, I thought the magic worked like the latter, so that's the ending I went with.

>>713143760
Do you think Maelle intimately knew all the people she brought back? More likely that just meant that each person there has an essence that she would need to focus on to reconstruct their bodies. Much more simple explanation than trying to imply they are 'copies'.

>>713140882
>>713142632
There should be a side game to Expedition 33 about living in a world made by the writer's but it's a CYOA text based adventure

In the distance, she rises.
Alone, without turning.
Dreams, without return.
Light fades.

Iris petals flood the streets of the waning day.
Clouds complicit with the flickering chiaroscuro, shades of sorrow.
They dance around littoral hours, a floral eclipse.
Light fades.

Change in the air, vapor of our flesh, bitter breath.
Light fades.

Deliberate offbeat, solitary reverse shot.
Light fades.

If time is lost against the current, the one-way mirrors reveal their truth.
If our pulses play against the heart,
Our love will keep the beat.
Light fades.

Paleness of day, deaf hearts, mirror of our love,
Light fades.

Bindings and harnesses, tightened ropes, sailor's knots and crimson reefs.
Shaken tides, doubt overboard,
Light fades.

Drifting ties, slipping bonds, bleeding mist,
Light fades.

Alone, without aid, dream, without shape, darkness, evermore,
Light fades.

In the last lights from beyond the sea, at the dawn of a new day,
Cormorants fly against the light,
Light fades.

>>713143605
Painted Renoir is described as being different due to the artist's viewpoint of his personality rather than his actual one. Verso is similarly hinted at to be an incomplete version, which is why he decides to do what he does and why he is so tormented.
>>713142965
Shitty clones is not the same characterization is "imperfect" ones.

>>713141247
They see that Verso is suffering and feel pity for him. But they're doing great.

>>713143760
Aline painted a Verso with all the memories real Verso ever had. I don't care how intimately familiar you are with a person, if you can paint all their past memories that's bullshit-tier magic and it just werks.

>>713142965
>>713143605
I didn't think so either but an anon gave me a good reason to doubt myself last thread. I still don't get why they look like this. The models had proper color in their clothes in the Prologue.

>>713143068
redditor calling anon reddit

>>713143890
>Do you think Maelle intimately knew all the people she brought back?
Sciel, Lune and Gustave yes. Maybe Sophie. Thus I doubt the accuracy of anyone else she revives

>More likely that just meant that each person there has an essence that she would need to focus on to reconstruct their bodies.
We are both just guessing. As I said - there is no strong evidence either way. Obviously I like my interpretation better since it grounds the magic to some capability instead of handwaving it as an ultimate magic with no bounds of creation.

>Much more simple explanation than trying to imply they are 'copies'.
I'm not trying to argue Sciel/Lune etc are copies. Well, they are since the original is technically dead but they are functionally and essentially the same person with continuity.
My issue is in Maelle recreating the rest of Lumiere - how accurately can she represent them in her repaintings when she doesn't really know them?

>>713142985
But that didn't apply to Lune and Sciel. We very easily see the difference when Noco is reincarnated.

There is no good ending, they're both bad

>>713144021
Sure you can believe that - just know there is no strong evidence to it and we are just filling in details with our head canon. I prefer magic with some grounding instead of some handwavy magi, but you do you.

>>713143884
I imagine it would affect a lot of people's decision-making, yes. That we don't have an answer is why it's a judgment call (and a big part of why these threads are still being made).

I made the same decision for the same reason. Even after being challenged and reflecting on it, I still prefer the Maelle ending because, from the (admittedly limited) evidence I have with Lune and Sciel, whatever she does to bring people back is "good enough for me." That's my judgment call, better or worse.

>>713144219
>Obviously I like my interpretation better since it grounds the magic to some capability instead of handwaving it as an ultimate magic with no bounds of creation.
The thing, though, is that Maelle isn't even creating them. She's just doing what she did with Sciel and Lune. She's reforming them after they got dispersed in the Gommage with the power of chroma.

The real head scratcher on a power with no limitation is how Aline can make a Verso that keeps a shitload memories of his that Aline couldn't possibly all know.

>>713143974
>Painted Renoir is described as being different due to the artist's viewpoint of his personality rather than his actual one. Verso is similarly hinted at to be an incomplete version, which is why he decides to do what he does and why he is so tormented.
The reason why I don't buy this is because Renoir's Axon describing Verso is a perfect representation of Verso. It literally foreshadows all the lying and misdirection he will do in the game. And then you have all the out-of-the-world memories Verso has.

>>713125005 (OP)
Yes. Yes she can.

>>713142132
Niggers with blue contact lenses are so cringe.

>>713136562
>>713141000
Based

>>713137345
>Roasties:
>How dare you like a legal-aged pure young conventionally attractive aristocratic girl instead of my roastie ass with 3 kids from different fathers!!

So if you ate out any of the painted ladies would they taste like paint

>>713144335
And that needed her to focus on their essence, which I interpreted as their "essence of being" - how she knows them as a person.

>The real head scratcher on a power with no limitation is how Aline can make a Verso that keeps a shitload memories of his that Aline couldn't possibly all know.
It kind of aligns with the grounded system I like, in that Aline knows the essence of Verso and uses it to recreate him. The personality of this essential Verso then fills in the gaps/memories (headcanon). Also Aline is the GOAT Painter.

>>713144000
Who the fuck is that kid again?

>>713144219
Again, the fact that Sciel and Lune remember things Maelle wouldn't know. I see no good explanation for this if they are just copies made from Maelle's memories or whatever. In contrast there's no evidence I see that they aren't.

Quite honestly I find it to be a cope that people need to believe so they can validate Verso's ending is the defacto good ending. And mind you I already think the game went too hard on making Verso's look like the better one, since going by the devs it doesn't seem that this was intentional.

lol

Chroma = painted soul.

>>713144630
One of Gustave's apprentices

>>713144698
Gustave had glasses at some point? Sciel was hotter before.

>>713125005 (OP)
Waaaa I'm a Maelle fag waaaaa why can't we live in perpetual escapism while our families watch us rot from the outside in waaaaa I wanna spend time in my big brother's painting.

Renoir was 100% right and Maelle fags are childish.

>>713144775
Meh doesn't look like him besides the hair.

>p-p-please Maelle I just want to die....
>PLAY THE FUCKING PIANO

>>713144823
>choose between characters I've spent the whole game getting to know vs. Maelle's family of assholes I only know from second-hand information
Verso is just seething in the ending because he actually has to keep his word for once.

>>713145084
KEK got his ass

>>713144642
as I said In other replies - I think the magic works like:
>imagine the essence of the person, imbue chroma = person made. any gaps in memory and personality are filled in by this essence.

vs from what I think you are suggesting:
>think about a person, imbue chroma = whole person
without any grounding as to the face, personality, traits, appearance of the creation.

I don't really care about the "copy" question, that seems besides the point. The question is how easily can Maelle recreate the rest of Lumiere - and the rules of the magic is unclear - there is no strong evidence either way.

>>713145059
10000 YEARS IN THE PIANO MINES

>>713145084
>>713145173
Who the fuck cares about Painted Verso? Painted Verso wasn't why I sided with Painted Verso. Renoir is why I sided with Painted Verso. Painted Verso's an asshole but he works to the ends of a greater power and authority who is objectively correct.

>>713145297
>objectively correct
a few more days of thinking anon

>>713145397
He is. Maelle fags are coping children, and it makes sense because their logic follows the logic of a literal coping child.

>>713125005 (OP)
>Old /v/ sides with Marche
>New /v/ sides with Maelle
IT'S ESCAPISM, CAN'T YOU SEE?

>>713145578
Been a while, but isn't Marche just trying to return his party to the real world? He's not destroying it. Only Maelle can return. Everyone else dies.

>>713145578
It makes sense. The autist has trouble disseminating between reality and imagination, so when you go twice removed with a fictious world within a fictious world, the autist brain has a recursion error it can't process - like a double negative - which leads Maelle fags to think that the citizens of Lumiere are real, when they're not real even within their own universe.

>>713125132
Versofags can’t debunk this

>>713145578
that's me, kind of.
Marche was easy to side with, but E33 has so much more nuance and depth so it's less clear cut that Verso's side is more palatable.

>>713145691
see
>>713132092

>>713145764
The attachment paints a clear picture. If you think Verso's ending is murdering the citizens of Lumiere, do you also scream when you wake up for murdering the denizens of your dreams? Do you lament closing a book? Putting down a pen? Turning off the TV? Closing a game? Because you have undone their existence. It makes no sense.

Maelle's ending is arrested development incarnate. It's re-reading Harry Potter 800 times.

Who cares what ending you choose consider the cute girl with the cute butt

>>713145578
>>New /v/ sides with Maelle
Maellejunky AGP escapism troons are just the loudest.
We pay them no attention.

>>713145909
The people in Lumiere have their own thoughts, dreams, motivations and histories.
The people in my dreams, in the video games I play and the books I read are shapeless figments of my mind and written lines.

>>713145853
>>713132092
See >>713145909

If a god showed up and went 'sorry you're living in a facsimile of reality and now we are in dire need, we must end this simulation to continue life,' then I'd understand. Hell I'm not convinced this state of reality is the most real out there anyway. If anything, I think an immortal eternity even in this world would be fucking awful.

>>713145679
Marche essentially wakes up the WindFish. Remember, this isn't FFTA2 where they are transported to a different world. Their world "changes" into a version of Ivalice.
https://youtu.be/PHDk2_8ffVc?t=311

>>713145909
that's not how Lumierians are portrayed in-universe. It's through magic but the game is leading us to believe they are sentient, self-perpetuating beings with free-will, created by the Painters.

They aren't content consumed by a third-party - at least from an in-game perspective. (they are, from our perspective)

Writers did nothing wrong. Fuck the D*ssendre family.

>>713146025
Even then, at least he's bringing everyone else with it, and also bringing back the people that got lost with the WindFish.
There's no such dynamic in Expedition 33. The real world and the fake world cohexist. You're just killing people.

It's time to stop posting

>>713145991
You THINK they have their own thoughts, dreams, motivations, and hobbies. They're all creations of something.

Look, let's do an exercise.
--
Bob loved to look out of his window as he baked cakes; he baked all sorts of cakes, for the children, chocolate, for his mother, a gentle spongey seed cake. Every time they emerged from the oven, perfect or otherwise, he would smile for their imperfections and all - for he knew his cake would bring joy. Josie would take the chocolate cake to school and come bounding back up the garden path, elated to have shared her father's careful craftsmanship with everyone around her.
--
Bob has a hobby. Bob has friends. Bob has family. Josie, Bob's daughter, also has friends, families, and a hobby.

Now anon, is Bob a real person? Is Josie a real person?

If I then write:--
One day, Bob got the awful news. Like the imperfection in his cake, he had an imperfection in his mind - a deeply set tumour, that would continue to grow, and crush his mind from the inside out.--

Have I just murdered Bob? Is Bob a real person?

>>713146187
ok, one last image

>>713146189
Can Bob rebel and punch (you) in the face?

>>713146021
my fave e33 image

go ahead, verso

>>713146127
No, he isn't. He can only bring back the people who were "originally real," which is essentially no different to the Verso ending. The painted beings are like those in the book.

>>713146021
Isn't that almost literally what happened according to the bible?

"Hey we know this is a lot to process but your civilization is a corruption using essentially stolen divinity to create an imperfect copy of the world as it should be. Leading to war, strife, and suffering."
"We can fix it but it involves everyone dying and being reborn in a higher world so we can destroy and then remake the physical world to reinhabit."

Not a perfect 1 to 1, but close enough for this

>>713146189
Anon, paintings are static images. In this instance we see people that were born and have interactions with each other, backstories, changing motivations across a hundred years. They completely changed their trajectory before and after the fracture, which was not what the painting was originally about. And they are creations of different entities (Verso, Aline, Clea, Renoir) and interact with each other in different ways.

I suppose it's not impossible that even in-universe and in-lore they are just pre-established characters, but it's severe headcanon to try to claim that as a certainty. I do not believe it.

>>713146303
But by doing so he brings back the rest of Ivalice that was lost because of the Wind Fish. It's a choice between two realities, one inherently overtaking the other.

>>713146423
Anon. All of the characters that were "originally Ivalice" and have no memories of the outside world do not come back. They were part of the fantasy and as such are gone. Gone.

>>713146189
different guy, but your comparison isn't valid. the people of the Canvas, once created, are capable of making decisions independent of your further input, whereas you must dictate everything Bob does for Bob to do anything. They are plainly different scenarios.

>>713146289
--
Bob, outraged by his blighted nature, punched his creator in the face.
--

Which can absolutely happen within the illusory world of what I have written, but can't exceed it, because it's not real bro.

>>713146383
All made by the paintress. You got taken in by George RR Martin with smaller tits friend.

>>713146380
Don't know desu

>>713146292
Painted Verso is a non-factor in all of this, because he's just another of Aline's creations and puppets; an extension of her mind and will. While he seems to represent some immutable fact that actually, Aline understands her grief and processing isn't healthy, she will continue her self-destructive escapism. Renoir however, is objectively correct, and siding with Renoir makes sense.

>>713146380
pVerso and Maelle are soft allusions to Jesus Christ and his decision to live among us (ie Lumierians) in order to save us all. They are both Painted and Painter in the same body - just like Christ is both human and God.

The Maelle ending is a perversion of humanity's salvation, without her ascension to the higher realm, and it's dire consequences.

The Verso ending results in some sort of apocalyptic Revelations scenario, in service to some higher purpose - without Lumierians deaths resulting in harmony in Heaven.

Expedition 33 is one big soft allegory to Christ's 33 year life and journey here in Earth.

The Dessendre family did nothing wrong. People of Lumiere are not real, they're their creations; slaves, if you will. They can kill them, rape them and resurrect them at will and there's nothing wrong with it.

>>713146536
I know, I'm referring to the characters from before they create Ivalice by reading the Tome! You were the one saying that the world changed into the new Ivalice. I'm going off of your memory.

>>713125005 (OP)
idk what you are even talkiong about, sounds like you misunderstood something in the story

>>713146596
>pVerso is an extension of her mind and will
If he was, there is no way she would have gone against her wishes, right?

>>713146674
if they willfully killed, raped and caused suffering for the sake of personal whims - now that's objectively evil.

>>713146823
They're not real. Is it evil to write smut fanfiction?

>>713146854
see
>>713132092

>>713146674
>The Dessendre family did nothing wrong.
Oh they're assholes.

> People of Lumiere are not real, they're their creations; slaves, if you will.
Yes.

>They can kill them, rape them and resurrect them at will and there's nothing wrong with it.
Not entirely. If I write up a fucked up scenario about Bob molesting his daughter, while no cosmic injustice has been committed through it, it would reflect on me being a horrific psychopath.

The people shouting 'save the Lumiere citizens' also seem to miss the fact that, in Verso's ending, it shows the Manor House being in what looks like Lumiere. They are a ruling class of people. They live in the centre of the city in a palace. It's not far fetched to think they are highly influential if not pivotal people in their country's rule (a-la royalty), so what does their absence do to those people over whom they govern that have an equal sense of reality to the Dessendres?

In keeping with my initial point, in the Verso ending it also reveals that the 33rd of December exists. That subtle nod to distance from reality points out that even within their universe, they aren't the highest order of existence; I would sacrifice the Dessendre's too.

>>713125241
>get excited to go on the greatest expedition ever
>it's a 10 minute cutscene
They should have spent less money getting Andy Serkis

>>713146764
Do some free writing. You might be shocked what emerged. The strength of E33 is that they don't write two dimensional characters. A mother stuck in grieving over her child with unhealthy coping mechanisms can likely at least acknowledge the mechanisms aren't healthy. If I were a mother, and I'd had an adult child that died, I would also rationally know that my child would want me to have some closure and peace. They wouldn't be likely to want me to toil and suffer over it.

While Aline's foremost desire is for her son to be alive again, and the canvas being a way to achieve that, it's not wild to think one of her creations might show elements opposite to that.

>>713147049
The greatest expedition ever is The Reacher, Frozen Hearts and Renoir's Drafts.

Where are the lewds? r34 is super quiet

>>713127521
the songs are sung in an obscur french dialect that is hard to translate

>>713145909
The canvas isn't a dream, it's a pocket dimension. The Lumierens that Aline painted have independent thoughts and feelings.

>>713144998
>same nose, chin, eyebrows, forehead, ears
same person, EXACT same hairstyle

>>713147402
>pocket dimension.
No, it's not. You can't move real objects between the two. The painters are unique in that they can traverse between the canvas and their own world.

>>713126406
I hope you don't celebrate Easter

>>713147489
>You can't move real objects between the two
That's not a requirement.

>>713125005 (OP)
Reminder that anyone saying the people having white clothes in Alicia's cinematic is from "budget" is wrong or lying. In the gommage in Lumiere the Lumierens with colorful clothes are depicted in a cutscene. They already had the models and textures for colorful lumierens and made the conscious choice to make white ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO2yBolpbWo&ab_channel=GameMojo

>>713147590
To be a pocket dimension? Kind of is. You're insisting it occupies a real space. It doesn't.

>>713146965
>It's not far fetched to think they are highly influential if not pivotal people in their country's rule (a-la royalty), so what does their absence do to those people over whom they govern that have an equal sense of reality to the Dessendres
Pure fanfiction! What people? What government? Find any reference to someone in the Dessendres' world doing anything that isn't related to art. It's not a reality like ours, it's like Olympus. An abstract higher plane whose literal existence is highly questionable.

>>713147106
That seems to directly contradict what you said:
>because he's just another of Aline's creations and puppets
Are you saying - all of Aline's creation are essentially puppets, except when they aren't? What are the qualification that makes her creations free, and when are they puppets?

My headcanon is that Aline (and Painters in general) can create beings, but like the Christian God, has also, deliberately or not, imbued them with free will.

>>713147668
>Kind of is
Why? Even if you were right, and "pocket dimension" didn't perfectly apply, it wouldn't make the canvas a dream because:
>The Lumierens that Aline painted have independent thoughts and feelings.

>>713147678
Oh right, I forgot about all the people that lived in the middle of entirely empty cities based on French capitols.

>>713147650
Maelle friends will cling to anything to cope. It's actually why I like the character Maelle so much; she perfectly captures the childishness of the people that will side with her.

>>713147716
I'm saying that Aline's creations might end up becoming a reflection of deeper desires and emotions rather than just the superficial ones. The one at the top is going to be 'I want my son back, I want to live in the perfect world with my son,' but deep down she will have thoughts like 'my dead son wouldn't want to see me suffer in my grieving.'

>>713147678
>it's like Olympus. An abstract higher plane whose literal existence is highly questionable.
Headcanon. Alicia simply calls it Paris. We know nothing about the "real" world of the dessendres: it could be mostly normal or it could be as you describe, but we have nothing to go off of.
>>713147754
She's an extremely well-written teenager and I loved her execution. You can value the potential of Lumiere being maintained, but agreeing with her logic is baffling - all she wants is to play pretend with "Verso".

>>713147794
>She's an extremely well-written teenager and I loved her execution. You can value the potential of Lumiere being maintained, but agreeing with her logic is baffling - all she wants is to play pretend with "Verso".
Completely agree. Ultimately, the mature thing for her to do, is to process her grieving with her family, learn to become a better painter, and then to make her own canvas. pVerso points out there's nothing stopping her doing this either.

>>713147754
>Oh right, I forgot about all the people that lived in the middle of entirely empty cities based on French capitols
What people, though? The Dessendres certainly aren't normal humans, so how we would know if there are any humans in their world? They seem conspicuously absent if anything.

Simple for me is if Verso wanted to die, he should be allowed to. He was made immortal, and then Alicia just paints him back into existence.

In the Verso ending, if Alicia is fed up with this forced life she could just suicide. No necromancy in real life.

>>713147792
I see, thats an interesting perspective I haven't heard of. That sounds like a bleak world, though.
Do you think right now, you are living in a similar reality? How would you know otherwise?

>>713147915
>so how we would know if there are any humans in their world?
We only see their world outside the manor once, and it's during a private viewing of a grave. It seems odd to assume such strange things about their world.

>>713147915
>>713148034
I thought the indication was that Lumiere began as a painted representation of their world in which they could play freely.

We do know there is literally a warring faction with the Dessendres. I don't see why outsiders would be as Verso's grave either way.

>>713147961
>Do you think right now, you are living in a similar reality? How would you know otherwise?
I think I've had dreams that felt more real than this world does, and my family has had shared paranormal experiences that have sign-posted imminent deaths in the family (not always of natural cause). I think there's more to this world than science can measure. And again, if some higher power came to me and said, 'We cannot sustain this world anymore, it will destroy our own and eventually yours anyway,' it would take some grief, but I would ultimately understand.

>>713148348
The greater canvas world was painted by young Verso, but Lumiere was painted by Aline so that she could larp that Verso was still alive.

>>713148348
if you would "understand" yourself, then that's all well and good for you, but it would be profoundly arrogant to demand such an "understanding" from others

>>713148034
They would need servants for a house like that, and it would come up at some point. We would see them when we walk around the house as Maelle. They would need money, and someone would mention selling a painting at some point. If it was a normal world someone would mention something non-art-related at some point and they just don't. When we get a reference to the real-world responsibilities Maelle is neglecting, it's the "war against the writers". What could that possibly even mean?

>>713148465
I knew the Lumiere citizens were Aline's creation (again why I don't have the greatest sympathy for them) and I personally, without any in-game rationale for this, suspect that the citizens of Lumiere represent people from their real world. Aline, being much older, would've been able to meet a lot of people. It would also explain with Alicia couldn't repaint them all in her ending.

To give the 'olympus anon' credit, looking back at the ending, the sky is very ominous.

>>713148672
>They would need servants for a house like that
And Renoir would have to take a shit. He's been in there 67 years and we never see him take a shit. I guess painters don't ever shit, since we don't see it.
>If it was a normal world someone would mention something non-art-related at some point and they just don't.
Well, they're in the grip of tragically losing their son, and to cope with the grief, the mother has retreated into magic art, and the father has been imprisoned in magic art for trying to get the mother out, and the youngest daughter is also trapped in magic art where she was painted into a different person, and the oldest daughter is concerned with getting the parents out of the magic art so they can all deal with the magic writers that want to kill them for being able to do magic art. Why do they talk so much about art? Could it be because they're in the midst of a crisis that revolves entirely around art?

Do you enjoy anime?

>>713148692
But new people are born in Lumiere

>>713148692
> (again why I don't have the greatest sympathy for them)
It gives me great sympathy for them. They were created by a capricious artist who had no concern for their inevitable fate.
>without any in-game rationale for this
Well at least you admit it.
> It would also explain with Alicia couldn't repaint them all in her ending.
There is also: Alicia is a shitty painter.

>>713148932
>Well at least you admit it.
What's there to admit? I think Aline painted the Lumiere citizens from people she knew.

>It gives me great sympathy for them. They were created by a capricious artist who had no concern for their inevitable fate.
Mum invading your minecraft world to make it into a soap opera doesn't inspire much sympathy for them desu.

>There is also: Alicia is a shitty painter.
Could well be that too yeah, although even in her ending she manages to bring back Gustave etc.

>>713149005
>Mum invading your minecraft world to make it into a soap opera doesn't inspire much sympathy for them desu.
What if mum is a wizard and can create people with real thoughts, feelings, and histories, who do not wish to die?

>>713149008
Clea doesn't care to drag her out. She told her she wouldn't save her like Verso did, and base on that conversation, she knows that Alicia chosen to stay in the canvas because she made that decision for herself, not her parents.

Did Maelle want to fuck Gustave? Was she a brocon that subconsciously was attracted to her ideal version of Verso she wasn't blood related to?

>>713149116
And yet after Alicia made her little oopsie and got reincarnated into the canvas, Clea came in to tell Verso to watch her end ensure she stops Aline. Anon, she'd 100% go in eventually to drag the retard out.

>>713149103
>still assuming these characters are autonomous
Anon.. like.. you are going to struggle something fierce with AI.

>>713125005 (OP)
Why is she making the Kanye face?

>>713142132
>golden route btfo
great video

>>713149216
Oh, you're one of them. It's possible the Lumierens (this would include Gustave, Verso, Lune, Sciel, and possibly even Maelle before Alicia comes back) aren't actually sentient, but it's always confusing that people who think that suggest it as if it's the only possibility.

Join retards. We subjugate women here

gg/NKuQGaxB

>>713148845
>And Renoir would have to take a shit
Bro read a book, the servants are not a small detail. It's glaring compared to how careful the worldbuilding is for Lumiere.

>Well, they're in the grip of tragically losing their son etc
Okay but that ends up with a lot of passionate heart-to-heart talks where they all have ample opportunity to say the things they don't say. Listen I'm not even saying it's definite, I'm saying we have as much basis for my interpretation as for the real world being urban fantasy with magic artists as the one supernatural element.

>Do you enjoy anime?
yeah some

>playing on Expert
>got to the Axon mask boss
>get raped with impossible to parry moves
>switch to Expeditioner
>the same moves are easy to parry
I swear the animations are sped up on Expert.

>>713128159
Considering what a manipulative backstabbing lying cunt Verso was in the game, why Yes, I DO think Verso deserves hell and eternal damnation while the victim of his manipulation and emotional abuse deserves her own little Heaven.
How could you tell?

>>713132092
>i'm a real girl!
>can't step out of a fucking painting
Then you are no more real to be than a physical spider in my attic. At least the spider can run away from me.

>>713149835
No. The parry window is just extremely precise

Last time I remember having this escapism discussion on 4chan, it was the ending of SSSS Gridman

>>713125005 (OP)
The reason it sucks is because they will obviously continue with the canon ending being the Verso ending if they bring back the Dessandre family, and went out of their way to make Maelle's ending look really bad in comparison for no real reason other than for the people that may have wanted to know WHY everything HAD to get deleted no matter what. So they put the ESCAPISM BAD ending but the problem is that their fucking writing vehemently insists that Maelle is the exact same kind of drug addict that her mom was when she could very fucking easily keep her word to Renoir and not kill herself in there. She wanted to stay there "a little longer", presumably she wanted to repaint those that were gone and reset everything so she could spend part of her "life" in there and see them thrive until she could leave, possibly once the ones she knew got old and died. We know that a lifetime can go by in the canvas but in real life it's not that long at all, Clea had stated how both Renoir and Aline had spent way more times in other painted worlds. A lifetime in the painting can be like 2 hours tops IRL, maybe a bit more.

So she could have just done that. If anything, she could have just given only painted Verso the death he wanted since he was nuclear suicidal. But no, they insist and doubled down on saying she IS a paint crack addict and she will absolutely kill herself in the canvas. They effectively said she had ZERO growth as a person despite all her experiences of having another separate life and she just wants some crack. It's fucking lazy. If they wanted a more bittersweet ending, there were many other ways to do so that didn't have to boil down to SHE ENJOYS DRUGS, SHE WILL KILL HERSELF WITH THIS PAINT HEROIN. She could easily kick her mom out again if she had to, she was strong enough to do that by now, same for Renoir. There was never any reason to erase the canvas other than their insistence that Aline and Maelle fucking love to get high.

>>713133269
Disagree.
The game name being Clair Obscur (Chiaroscuro), an art technique based in utilizing contrasts between light and dark, makes it really fitting that it has two choices where neither of them are completely morally correct.
Meaning that life is not grey, is actually black and white overlapping each other.

>>713125005 (OP)
She is happy. I won. I completed the game.

>>713150549
>The reason it sucks is because they will obviously continue with the canon ending being the Verso ending if they bring back the Dessandre family
Uh... No... If they wanted to make a sequel set in the same universe, they'd want to keep the world, mate. Unless it's an anthology style thing, but then the Dessandre family probably wouldn't be a big part of it. A cameo, at best.

I do hope they have it be an anthology like series or just straight up do another IP.

>>713148932
i laughed so hard at this i woke up my sleeping baby

>>713149736
>It's glaring compared to how careful the worldbuilding is for Lumiere.
The story takes place in Lumiere. The glimpse we see of the Dessendre's world is only necessary to provide context to the events surrounded the characters, which take place in Lumiere. Details of the real world aren't necessary, you remind me of people in the earlier threads who were totally hung up on what the writers were. The answer is obvious: it doesn't matter.
>Okay but that ends up with a lot of passionate heart-to-heart talks where they all have ample opportunity to say the things they don't say.
Most of what characters do when they interact with one another is just that. There's a heartfelt conversation before and after the final boss. There's a heartfelt conversation before Alicia flees at the end of act 2/beginning of act 3. Most of the time they're not talking it's because they're imprisoned in separate places or because talking would get in the way of what the character really thinks needs to be done to save the family.
>Listen I'm not even saying it's definite,
Sure but yours requires so much more suspension of disbelief that it's crazy to see them treated as equally likely
>yeah some
I figured, anime drones on and on and on with unnecessary details.

>>713150549
every time

>>713150976
>you remind me of people in the earlier threads who were totally hung up on what the writers were. The answer is obvious: it doesn't matter
You can't deny it's a sick hook for a sequel, though.

>>713150549
>She wanted to stay there "a little longer"
No she didn't.

Staying in the canvas like that is like playing gta with god mode cheat (literally)
There is a reason people usually dont do that more than 30 min

>>713150549
>If anything, she could have just given only painted Verso the death he wanted since he was nuclear suicidal.
Pretending verso was alive was the entire reason she wanted to stay.

>>713151024
I honestly think the Maelle ending is the reddit choice (muh gustave, muh heckin friends). How can anyone watch that ending, see the subtleasabrick hints and think it's good?

>>713151037
I hope the story of the dessendres and their world is expanded upon exactly 0%. This story and even the setting feel complete, I hope their next game is something very different.
>sick hook
We know precisely nothing about the writers except that they oppose painters. There's nothing there to be excited about and I'm confused as to what's so sick about it.

>>713151205
I feel the same as you, but I firmly believe the ending can be interpreted positively if you really want to do so. But even before any cutscenes, Alicia's logic is just classic teenage saying-whatever-i-need-to. Maelle didn't care about Lumierens and Alicia, who isn't Maelle, is just spouting off whatever she thinks Maelle might have argued. At the end of the day, like Aline, she just wants to live in a world where Verso is alive. Her motivation is even more powerful given her responsibility for his death. It's tragic and was laid out from the very beginning of Act II even if brainlets like >>713150549 couldn't see it and are just butthurt about the spooky jumpscare.

Lune's voice actress

>>713151212
>Painters are about passion
>Writers are about written word, straight up information
>Maelle got burned because she got gaslit by the writers
>Incidentally, Maelle loved reading books while Clea and Verso were out painting
>Painting kind of inherently inspires the idea of letting art flow and take shape, a very creative affair
>To me, at least, writing implies a more controlled and surgical outlook
>Basically, writers may be able to create their own worlds, in which case they have orwellian control over the thoughts of the people inside them
>Or, writers may not have anything to do with creating new worlds, but rather entirely with influencing the real one

There's just a lot of cool stuff that an enemy faction of writers set against the painters we see in Expedition 33 brings to my mind. It's a great hook.

Not that I disagree with you on the world not needing to be expanded. I'm >>713150849

I kind of want to have it both ways, actually. Here's an idea. Second game is called Clair Obscur 2: [Subtitle Here]. The game is explicitly about the writers and their influence in one way or another, but it shares no characters at all with the first game, only concepts (So there can be some Painters around too). Turn it into a Final Fantasy style affair.

But just straight up another setting is cool too.

>>713125005 (OP)
Enough about escapism
What about the morality of creations and creators
If the canvas people are painted products of the painters, then do they have the right to erase these seemingly sentient beings as they see fit, as the creators, or they must take responsible for their existence

>>713151205
>>713151316
Based Verso ending friends. Fuck Verso, but Renoir was 100% correct.

>>713151613
You're very creative but all of that was your idea, not anything put in the game. All the game gave us is: "There are writers. They oppose painters." It's just an impetus, an enemy faction to kick the plot off by killing Verso and provide the family with a time pressure to solve the Aline situation, causing Clea to step in and mass produce nevrons in the canvas. The story is about the dessendres and the party members - the only relevance of the writers is that clea fucking hates them. They're a non-entity as far as our understanding of what they are goes.

What ending will the movie use?

>>713151205
I picked it because it saves a bunch of innocent people from dying. I see the unsettling ending as deliberately highlighting the cost of doing so. I still think it was worth it.

>>713151860
I'm not gonna lie, Clea hating the writers is good enough for me. Based bitch Clea is the most sensible character in this thing.

>>713151868
Depends if they want Alicia in the plot or not. 'She stayed,' is a convenient way of not needing to include her going forward.

>>713151860
I'm just saying that we see what the painters are and we are told that they are facing the writers, which obviously need to have some sort of power so that they don't get BTFO immediately by the painters. It's no wonder people are gonna theorize. That's why I'm saying it's a cool hook even if it's just an off-hand mention that doesn't explain anything. Similar, to, say, when Star Wars just briefly mentions "The Clone War". That name alone tells you a lot. (And lets you imagine a lot of cooler stuff than what the prequels ended up doing later)

>>713125241
>I just had a lot of fun with that canvas and don't want to let go yet.
We know, Maelle.

>>713151927
>saves
Doesn't save them. Only recreates them.
>people
Not people.
>from dying
Didn't die.

>>713151316
>but I firmly believe the ending can be interpreted positively if you really want to do so
Perhaps I am closed minded so yeah, I'll take that on board. The Maelle ending affected me more than the Verso ending by far. It was negative, sure but I can still appreciate that.
>>713151328
I watched her at some IGN show sat on a couch. They introduced in the Monoco actor and he came in and sat right next to her (lots of space on the couch but it was obvious there were 3 more actors yet to come). She told him to get away from her or something. Was quite sad.

>>713151987
>Star Wars just briefly mentions "The Clone War".
Yeah, and the prequels that expanded on that fucking sucked. Some things are better left as minor details in a GOOD story, like the writers in Expedition 33. Not everything is cool up close.

>>713152020
I don't want to type it out again. see
>>713140216
and
>>713140852

>>713125978
the facial expressions and animations of this game are great. the characters have so much life to them

The endings pissed me off, because they present a number of false dichtomies. And the game REALLY tries to convince you that Verso's ending actually solves something, even though it doesn't even address the main point.

>>713152114
Bringing something back isn't the same as saving it. New Lumiere is mirrors Theseus' ship.

>>713152057
It fucking sucked cause the prequels sucked. Not all expansions of themes and elaborations on briefly mentioned points of interest are inherently bad.

>>713151927
I say this as a versofag: Your interpretation is totally valid, and this guy >>713152020 is a big faggot. It could not be any more obvious that the devs wanted these details to be interpreted differently by different people.
>>713152045
>The Maelle ending affected me more than the Verso ending by far.
Same here. It felt glaringly obvious to me that everything was wrong. Others did not feel that way and I've tried to see the potential positives of Alicia's ending:
>Lumiere persists, at least for now.
>Lumierens can make peace with the nature of their existence
>Or, they could develop in ways we cannot currently fathom - the canvas is in a way a proper universe
I saw one anon with an interesting theory that the writers in the game are the actual writers OF the game, or something similar to that, some type of beings in a higher reality than the dessendres, as the dessendres are to the canvas. That would give Alicia's ending real meaning, for if the dessendres can resist the writers, why can't the lumierens resist the dessendres? All headcanon but interesting and nothing really rules it out as a possibility.
One detail that's unambiguously negative is that Verso's soul simply does not want to paint. But then, both endings are meant to be tragic.

>>713152045
She was just playing the part, chud.

>>713152127
They were great for a 6 man team with a limited budget. But E33 get mogged by the AAA game animators.

A Sandfall game with a bigger budget would be interesting.

>>713150976
>The story takes place in Lumiere
Not really, no. There's the prologue and then we just hear about it conversations. In conversations about Lumiere, we get little details that fill in gaps like the early apprenticeships, small expeditions to other islands, etc. We even get it for the gestrals, with the discussion of the orphans. For the "real" world we get less than nothing. We get the war against the writers, which almost cannot make sense. A teenage girl with no real-world powers fights a "war", which is somehow an actual war but which her dad treats as her personal obsession that she could stop at any time. It's not hard to guess what it means allegorically, but there's no other way to make sense of it.

>Sure but yours requires so much more suspension of disbelief that it's crazy to see them treated as equally likely
Not at all. It's obviously intentional and accords with one of the major themes of the story. What does it mean to treat a fictional world or character as more or less "real"? The wrong answer is the first one we're given, that the story just tells us what's real. The correct answer is the one we're shown, that it's about the way the story is told. The Dessendres are allegorical and symbolic, while the Luminerians are realistic.

This is also why they went so hard making painted Verso like a Dostoevsky character, with extreme pathos and contradictory motivations and as much complexity as possible. That's what makes him real, in the only way a fictional character can be. "Canonically real" is a joke.

>>713152167
In my experience, deep dives on minor details of successful stories are just trying to squeeze more gold out of a mine that's already been stripped. I feel that if the writers were meant to be expanded upon we would've been told ANYTHING about them. It's possible that they'll make up a bunch of stuff and it'll be good, I simply doubt it.

>>713152230
Peak reddit post friend here's your reddit gold haha

>>713151680
Simply put, yes. The events of the game make it clear to anyone with any morality that these people need to be held responsible for the worlds they build. Just the idea that you're letting a child paint this kind of stuff is already somehow sketchy, but I guess they gotta learn how to do it? Is that a good excuse for if you have a family of clone breeders? Either ways, the adults doing the shit they do is so much worse. Simply put, this problem should have been solved by having the magical government intervene and take the panting away from Aline, Renoir and Clea to preserve the life inside it. There's so many obvious ethic breaches in what the Dessendres are doing without any supervision.

>>713152239
Sorry, I meant that the story takes place in the canvas, in which Lumiere features prominently. For the "real" world we get less than nothing because the story does not take place there and details about the real world are simply not relevant.
>muh war
Not relevant to the plot outside of kicking it off by resulting in Verso's death. The plot revolves around the family dealing with that death.
>not at all
K, bye.

>>713152134
>And the game REALLY tries to convince you that Verso's ending actually solves something,
I don't know why people keep saying that. Both endings were full of pain.

>>713125005 (OP)
Anon. The Maelle ending is overtly the bad ending. It's presented the way that it is so that idiots who couldn't understand the story can still have their happy ignorant dream ending. Some games do this, a simple test at the end "did you pay attention to the story?" and give you a bad ending if you make the wrong choice. Nier Automata does this as well where it asks you to delete your save. Anyone with half a wit that paid attention to the narrative knows this is the absolute worst thing you could do, but retards still eagerly delete their save so they can feel heroic in the moment with no regard for the actual narrative implications. They get sent back to the start menu and will have to try again all the way from the start if they want the real ending. E33 is merciful by comparison, and just makes you refight Renoir.

It's lampshaded so much, even from the very scene where Alicia "revives" Lune and Sciel, Verso explains she needs to paint their essence and uses the Axons as an example thereof, highlighting how each painter's work results in outwardly distinct things when painting the same things (Aline created 'Verso' and Renoir created the axon of masks while basically painting the same thing) but Alicia just repaints a sham of what Aline had painted. Perhaps a bit more subtle; Lune and Sciel in act 3 mainly care about the things Alicia cares about. People they lost. It's also very telling that Alicia wants to be called Maelle, despite the fact that she is very much NOT Maelle, having a very different personality and set of goals. She just gives away that she doesn't want to be Alicia, she wants to live as Maelle did, but not the real Maelle, a sham copy that now loves Lumiere.

>>713152163
my response is the exact same posts that I just linked, again. because the thing you said does not counter either of them. if anything you support what I said by bringing up a thought experiment without a definitive answer. unless that was your intent in which case thank you I guess.

Alicia's shit status?

>>713152134
>even though it doesn't even address the main point.
The main point is that Aline, and eventually Alicia, want to destroy themselves rather than face and then deal with reality. Verso's ending does force them to do just that. Aline and Alicia were never going to deal with the loss of their son/brother if they continued larping that he was alive in a painted world.

>>713152239
>A teenage girl with no real-world powers
That's a big assumption. We see their magic being worked when they're working on canvases.

>>713152426
Pure mental gymnastics on your part. You said it saved innocent people. Which it doesn't. It recreates non-people. But play schizobabble all you want, Maelle fag.

>>713152438
Taken.

>>713150029
Wrong Verso, brainlet. That's the Verso that died to save her life, remember? His reward? The remains of his soul get tormented by his sister who now wastes the life he saved on a lie.

>>713128002
Neither is the "good" ending, both have enough positive and negative aspect and ambiguity in order to be interpreted either way. It's almost as if both have both Light and Darkness, as if we some kinda Clair Obscur or something.

>>713152421
>Perhaps a bit more subtle; Lune and Sciel in act 3 mainly care about the things Alicia cares about.
This is complete bullshit. Lune and Sciel are completely consistent from one act to the next. The way the relationship flows from stage 1 through 5 to stage 6 through 7 couldn't be more consistent. There is no shift whatsoever, subtle or otherwise.

>>713152493
Just as Renoir and Verso couldn't convince Maelle/Alicia and Aline to make a sensible choice, we can't convince the Maelle fags either. It just shows you the reddit tier Maelle 'SAVE THE IMAGINARY PEOPLE' fags are the equivalent of irrational women tbqh

>>713152526
>I couldn't tell so it isn't there!
Says the blind man to the crowd.

>>713152421
retard

>>713150976
>anime drones on and on and on with unnecessary details.
Watch something like Angel Egg or Haibane Renmei if you want to get forced to understand the story while being given minimum amount of information.

>>713152519
Ayo hol up, so you be sayin, we some kind of, clair obscur?

I did not care about Gustave and forgot about him almost immediately.

>>713152564
No. Fuck off. They aren't imaginary people you dumb fuck. They are magical people living in a magical demi-plane. The Verso ending is as potent as it is specifically because they ARE real, and the Maelle ending is as terrible as it is because her derivatives lost everything that made them real. Don't ever reply to me again with such brain-dead horseshit.

>>713152624
It do be like that

>>713152526
I disagree only slightly - I felt that it was very odd for Lune to be excited about exploring a canvas within a canvas. She was very curious and interested in truth - the concept of her being content with exploring Alicia's best recreation of the ACTUAL world outside the canvas stuck out to me as the first indicator that something was wrong with her ability to bring people back.

>>713152604
Stop roleplaying as a pokemon and communicate like a human being, retard.

>>713152371
Kid verso only painted the original world with some fantasy creatures in it
It was mommy who actually painted human there
Still it depends on how the actual citizens of the real world view painted beings
If they are considered no better and npc with advanced AI then they would have no right

>>713152239
>For the "real" world we get less than nothing. We get the war against the writers, which almost cannot make sense.
Yeah, when you think about it, nothing about Clea's crusade makes any sense when you think about it. Even Renoir is adorably dismissive of that war of hers. To be fair, he is dismissive of everyone's problems, so that's in character for him.
Also, how does destroying the canvas help Clea get over her writer hatred?
Because Verso's ending just naively assumes that "now that Verso's canvas is destroyed, a whole family got together". Except not, because all family members still have other unresolved issues that prevent them from moving on, that don't begin and end with Verso. Fuck, Renoir even admits that and then he still wants to destroy the canvas for some reason.

>>713152230
This isn't intended as a counter to your last point, per se, but I would point out that neither Verso nor Alicia bother to ask the soul fragment what it actually wants to do. I think that's part of the "we're both hypocrites" angle. It says its tired, yes, but it might want to choose to endure for the sake of others. It might also be constantly suffering and desperate for someone to set it free. The dialogues over the course of the game suggest it's conflicted, so I don't think it's necessarily accurate to declare how it feels in the end one way or another.

>>713152714
You are a retard. Happy?

>>713152663
Shut up and sit in the corner, woman. Your soap operas aren't real either. Harry Potter isn't real and you aren't getting a ticket to Hogwarts. Pride and Prejudice isn't real, it was written by a retarded NEET woman. You cannot distinguish reality from fiction. In the fucking corner, now.

>>713152624
t. Alicia
>Could you have saved gustave?
>yeah lmao
>that's crazy lol
>Unbreakable Bond

>>713152440
Nah. Alicia has faced her reality. She decided her reality is stupid and she's taking an option B.
Alicia is not Aline, that's the another false dichtomy the game keeps making.

>>713152472
I am getting the impression that you didn't actually read anything I wrote and are just throwing digital hands for the sake of it. Go ahead, I guess. I've been online long enough to know that's fun too.

>>713152698
The bigger issue is she suddenly cares about her parents and wants to find what's left of them, when previously such distractions were complete anathema. Her goals are more immediate then ever yet she wants to go on this tangent now? Out of all the things she could be doing? She could do this any time after defeating Renoir and there's no point doing it before.

>>713152810
>UHH IT'S ABOUT THE WORLD'S MAGIC RULES
fuck off you nitpicking spaz

>>713152725
>Also, how does destroying the canvas help Clea get over her writer hatred?
It doesn't, directly, but it does get the family back together so that Clea doesn't feel she's dealing with everything alone.
>Except not, because all family members still have other unresolved issues
And now that they're together, they can try to resolve them.

>>713152739
I did say as a human being, I did not mean "a human infant", but you wouldn't be a retard if you didn't misinterpret things so badly.

Why are you so insistent on proving your stupidity rather than proving your supposed intellectual superiority?

>>713152421
>>713152586
>>713152698
First off, Lune was already curious about Gestrals, Esquie, all that shit. Being curious about a whole new world she didn't know is completely in character.

But more importantly, here's my counterpoint that I feel completely dismantles that notion: We only find out about Sciel losing her pregnancy to her suicidal diving and getting saved by Esquie AFTER she gets repainted. There is no way to get this bit of story before Act 3. How the fuck is this at all a Maelle creation? Not only is it a completely consistent backstory that follows through, a continuation of her conversation with Verso ("Dark and personal, right?") but it's also an immeasurably dark story that Maelle, being the womanchild afraid of dark things and wanting to live in a fuzzy reality she is, would not be making up.

You guys are doing hard headcanon here.

>>713152760
meh, she just merked Alicia prior to that, so yeah

>>713152747
>F-fiction isn't real
Nice deflection faggot. Narratively speaking, they are real, and we are discussing the narrative, ergo the matter of whether they are real or not relates to what they are in the narrative, not what they are to us. If you cannot even distinguish between that, then you have no business pretending you know anything. Stop babbling like a demented ape and sit the fuck down.

>Aline immediately goes to paint a new canvas as a cheap copy of Verso's to die in
>Clea dies in her war against the Writers
>Alicia kills herself minutes after the ending
>Renoir is left alone
Nice ending Versofags

>>713152730
>neither Verso nor Alicia bother to ask the soul fragment what it actually wants to do.
Verso asks, "you're tired of painting, aren't you?" and babby Verso nods. Young Verso NEVER wanted to be a painter and only as he grew older did he feel comfortable choosing himself to pursue music instead. The fragment of his soul in the painting is from before he gained that confidence - it needs permission from an adult to do what it wants.

>>713152934
>HELP I CAN'T TELL WHAT'S REAL AND WHAT'S NOT IT';S SO AMBIGUOUS AAAAAA REDDIT HELP ME WITH AUTHORIAL INTENT AND LOGIC PLEAAASE AAAAAA HOW CAN MIRRORS BE REAL IF OUR EYES AREN'T REAL

>>713152519
in-game it is implied that
Clair (Light) is Verso
>has the outfit
>Light element user

Obscur (Void) is Maelle
>has the Obscur outfit
>Void element user

>>713152934
If they cant come out of the canvas to the real world, then they are no better than npc in a video game, so not real

>>713152873
lol you remind me of myself when i was in my early 20s. The ways you try to be condescending and insulting. It's cute. Anyway I don't think you're actually a retard, anon. I don't know enough about you to make that definitive statement. You are however objectively wrong about your assertion that either ending is "good" or "bad".

>>713152802
>Alicia has faced her reality
Nope, she's delusional right up until the very end. Alicia isn't Aline - she's worse, because she bears guilt over Verso's death in addition to grief, and she's younger and less capable of dealing with it.

>>713152997
All headcanons, nice to see the delusion is still there aliciafag

>>713153035
Literally, the people in the canvas don't exist in a way that allows them exist outside of the canvas. They make it plainly obvious multiple times. The anon harping on about magic rules is a top tier retard.

>>713152903
Lune was curious about Getsrals and Esquie because at that point, the Canvas world was all she knew. She didn't know there was anything else inside. That's a far cry from Alicia going "here's a world I painted for you, go explore, have fun honey!"

>>713125005 (OP)
In another dimension, with voyeuristic intention, where Ubisoft actually made this game and it scored the exact same way (meaning it’s the exact same game, just with an Ubisoft splash screen during startup), would /v/ still love and appreciate it?

>>713152903
>First off, Lune was already curious about Gestrals, Esquie, all that shit. Being curious about a whole new world she didn't know is completely in character.
She was interested in HER world. While I do disagree that her caring about magical worlds made in her magical world is somehow a tell, she isn't just randomly curious. She is characterised as rational and scientifically minded. A world painted by Alicia might have some artistic curiosity, but there isn't much for someone like Lune in a world like that, since it's all made and defined by Alicia already, there is nothing to be curious about that she couldn't just ask Alicia.

>We only find out about Sciel losing her pregnancy to her suicidal diving and getting saved by Esquie AFTER she gets repainted. There is no way to get this bit of story before Act 3. How the fuck is this at all a Maelle creation?
Anon, you are making a very stupid assumption here that painted creations can only know what their creator knew. This is obviously not true from even a cursory glance at the painted Dessendre family. It's quite clear that painted copies will simply know the things their 'real' variants knew.

>>713153131
I would call it zoomerslop.

>>713152851
I do not think I will do that, no. If you think of something convincing, do feel free to share. Or just keep yelling, that's fine too. It can be good for your mental health.

>>713153035
>If they can't come out to the real world
>I am a retard that cannot into basic logic and don't understand I have made an overt attempt at circular logic by calling the world the Canvas exists in the "real" world
Every fucking time with you clowns. If Verso isn't real, how does he manage to destroy the Canvas, knock Alicia out of it, etc.?

You brainlets need to fuck off and actually think before you post already, this drivel is such a god damn waste.

>>713153132
So then your argument is that the painted people know what they know, but they are not the same people and they have different thoughts and motivations which were altered by the painter? How does that make sense?

>>713153013
No, you're wrong.
https://expedition33.wiki.fextralife.com/Outfits
Both Verso and Alicia have a Clair and an Obscur outfit and neither ending is meant to be the happy or sad or light or dark one.
>void
a damage type associated with painters, and used for Alicia's paint-themed abilities.

>>713153213
My mental health? Nigga you're inventing rationales to justify escapism as its own form of escapism for the idea of simple logic and morality. You're jumping through hoops that don't exist to try and pretend that you're operating on a higher moral plain than the facts will allow.

>>713153129
But she explicitly wanted a world by Alicia that was a recreation of what the outside world would look like, since she can't go out into an outer layer, only in and out of an inner one.

She wanted the equivalent of a documentary on Antarctica if she couldn't leave her house.

>>713152861
>so that Clea doesn't feel she's dealing with everything alone.
Well, the issue is that the family should now focus on Alicia. You know, the crippled one, whose problems won't go away with a pep-talk. Because this whole thing happened because the family kept ignoring her and she was left to wallow in self-loathing alone. But they probably won't, because Clea will immediately throw them into a war with the Writers.
This family is inherently unfixable, because the problems will just keep mounting and the Dessandres have a REALLY bad history of dealing with any adversities. And Verso's ending hasn't even shown that they've learned anything, only that Renoir's idiotic and forceful way was awarded.

>>713153131
Then in that timeline ubisoft would still make kino instead of the trashes they publish yearly, so they wouldnt even have their current reputation
Games like this never suddenly appear out of company like today ubisoft for the people to be wondering ‘how?!’

>>713153240
>how does he manage to destroy the Canvas
He doesn't? He just asks Verso's soul to stop.

>>713153002
I've not heard that interpretation before, but it's certainly plausible. One of the big unanswered questions I have about the soul fragment is how much volition it's actually capable of. I still stand by what I said, since what I said amounts to "we don't know," but I'm happy to be challenged with interesting takes like yours.

>>713153240
>Every fucking time with you clowns. If Verso isn't real, how does he manage to destroy the Canvas, knock Alicia out of it, etc.?
>help help I didn't understand ANYTHING in the ending
jesus fucking christ can reddit go the fuck back?

They go to where Verso's soul paints the canvas, whether that's the peripheral of the canvas or the centre. pVerso then tells Vero's soul fragment he can stop painting. No more painting, no more canvas.

>>713153241
Alicia knows what Maelle knows, but does not behave at all like Maelle. Memories are an important part of who a person is but do not alone make them who they are.

>>713153047
Wow at this rate in about 20 more posts you might actually explain yourself rather than make statements and pretend other people should magically go along with them despite not giving any rationale or argumentation.
>lol you remind me of myself when i was in my early 20s.
>The ways you try to be condescending and insulting
Did you hit your head or just get demented with age? How did you not even notice this obvious nonsense?

>>713153241
Yes, anon. The Axon of masks and 'Verso' are both paintings based on the essence of Verso, yet they are still entirely distinct. They are magical recreations, and they will end up knowing things they are 'meant' to know because of it. Aline cannot possibly know enough about her family to give them a meaningful set of memories, actually think about and imagine how existentially horrifying it must be to be recreated based on a person from only the very limited external memories someone has about their thoughts and feelings, how much such people must be missing in themselves. This is not the case with any of the painted Dessendres. It's quite clear from the given examples that memory for painted creations isn't something manually added like some flash drive with a backup of a memory. They are magical painted creations, not androids.

>>713153316
As long as they're together, they can do more than one thing at once. The problem with Aline and Renoir being in the canvas is that they were both insane from decades of seclusion and conflict. The mere fact that Clea's family is back in the real world with her could be helpful, she was clearly concerned about the family not helping with "the war."
>But they probably won't
And yet they might.
>This family is inherently unfixable
The road is uphill but you're kind of a faggot for assuming such finality.
>the Dessandres have a REALLY bad history of dealing with any adversities.
We have seen them deal with precisely one: the death of verso. And you're right, they didn't handle it very well. Your extrapolations are baseless.
>only that Renoir's idiotic and forceful way was awarded.
the guy i don't like got what he wanted >:(

Grow up.

>>713153339
>R-reddit
Nice cope faggot, fuck off back there if you like it so much.
>They go to where Verso's soul paints the canvas, whether that's the peripheral of the canvas or the centre. pVerso then tells Vero's soul fragment he can stop painting. No more painting, no more canvas.
Right, but how does he do that if he isn't real? You're a dumb fucking retard for thinking you answered the question, when you didn't even understand it.

>>713153341
Yeah Alicia has Maelle memory but it is very clear that the ‘Alicia” personality is in charge
For example she is being all chummy with daddy, despite he still looks exactly like the man that killed Gustave and gave Maelle some deep trauma. To her Maelle memory is only a larp section in the canvas.

>>713153556
Precisely, her saying "call me Maelle" is the same as that tranny shouting "IT'S MA'AM!"

>>713153265
"simple logic and morality" being, what, that people who are shown to be self-aware and desiring to live don't actually count as people because you said so? would you kill them for fun if you could? I'm having trouble coming up with a response because my argument was "we can't know all the details so it's ultimately a judgment call" and you responded with "no I'm right and you're an idiot" without elaborating, so I'm not even sure what to say.

It's "moral plane," by the way.

>>713136127
She can't bring back people that got killed by Neverons (all those fossil corpses around the world) but everybody else is possible.

>>713153556
Anon she's not just being 'chummy with daddy' she is being 'chummy with the actual 'paintress' and the one that caused all of Maelle's suffering including killing her real parents and everyone else that got gommaged. Maelle would never.

>>713153532
fucking christ anon I can't handhold you through developing a brain, fuck off and figure it out yourself, but shut the fuck up with your dullard takes if you can't process even the simplest elements of the story plainly spelled out for you

>>713153630
>THEY'RE HECKIN SELF AWARE
Says who?

>>713153261
You cannot get both in-game, unless you have the DLC, right?
I'm not saying Light is good/happy nor Obscur is sad/bad - its just an observation of who the characters are meant to represent in the title, based on in-game evidence.

That said, I think it is hard to deny that the Maelle ending is presented very bitterly, compared to the Verso ending which felt more cathartic. I think that was a mistake on the developers part if they are trying to portray a more neutral and balanced outcome between both.

>>713153695
>I-i can't answer the question but I'm right anyway!!
So you admit defeat but are just being a little bitch about it, gotcha. Fuck off then lil faggy.

>>713153630
Cant come out of the canvas = not real
>b…but they are aware
No better than AI model larping

>>713153771
I already explained it to you and you still didn't understand. The game explains it to you, and you still didn't understand. You're just fucking dumb bro. Stick to Fortnite or whatever.

>>713153742
>its just an observation of who the characters are meant to represent in the title, based on in-game evidence.
They're both both and both endings are both.

>>713153518
But this family is incapable of listening to one another and I don't think the game even addresses that.
Renoir thinks he knows better than anyone how to solve things, even though his ideas are stupid, Clea dissmisses everything and everyone that doesn't concern her personally, we don't know how Aline is, but it is implied she was a smothering cunt as well. And Alicia is stuck in the middle, not even being able to speak up.
This is not a happy and loving family, anon. That's a bona-fide abusive enviroment.

>>713153695
...the video game. in which the characters demonstrate self-awareness. that's who. You did play it, yes?

>>713153876
>he can't tell the difference between being self aware and presenting as self aware
Can you imagine an apple?

>>713153487
The difference is Maelle is restoring a painting, like he says when he sees Sciel and Lune in the aether, not creating a new one. And people born in Lumiere through intercourse were not painted there.

>>713150112
Are you real anon? How do you know this?

>>713153695
see
>>713132092

>>713153834
>I 'explained' it, and then you pointed out how that didn't answer the question at all and I couldn't deal with that, so I will just ignore the problem and pretend I won something!
Cool, cool, now go play in traffic or something, 'genius'.
>T-the game explains it!
So which is it, does the game explain it or did you? And if the game explains it why can't you use that explanation to answer the question instead of vagueposting about it like a drooling retard?

Oh. Right. Because you don't actually have anything to say, but for some obsessive reason you cannot admit that to yourself or others and you have to keep sperging. Well, carry on then.

>>713153949
Maybe God could do us a favour and show up today to reap your dumb ass out of existence.

>>713126241
>meds
Dilate, leftist tranny

>>713154025
reflect more on the game and keep an open mind, you'll get it eventually :)

>>713153909
are you going for the philosophical zombie angle? because no one can prove that everybody else isn't one. hell, you could be one for all I know. you might even call reasoning that they're not a judgment call. I think one of us mentioned those earlier.

>>713153873
>But this family is incapable of listening to one another and I don't think the game even addresses that.
You insist on the most negative possible interpretation of everything, for some reason. We only see the family in the grip of the very recent and tragic death of their son, and the disfiguring of their daughter. The family are also wizards, and have a literal fragment of their son's soul that they can use to pretend he's alive. This is a recipe for fucking disaster, and it does indeed end up being a disaster. That's no indication that everything ever is forever fucked forever. Calm down.
>Renoir thinks he knows better than anyone how to solve things,
Aline is literally killing herself with the canvas. He's right that she needs to be removed from it.
>Clea dissmisses everything and everyone that doesn't concern her personally,
Clea acts tougher than she is because she's convinced herself she has to carry everyone through this tragedy. She speaks with coldness to Alicia, but ends up going into the canvas to task painted Verso with looking after her. She's fucked up, but part of it is a front. She has problems.
>we don't know how Aline is,
near suicidal with grief
>but it is implied she was a smothering cunt as well.
No it's not.
>This is not a happy and loving family, anon.
Correct, because Aline is currently driven mad and physically resisting attempts to get her to face the reality of her son being dead. Once they're out, a very different picture is painted. It doesn't guarantee happiness but provides the possibility of it in the future. I think you just don't like your family and are projecting.

>>713153950
I'm astounded you can use words with an IQ so fucking low.

Game literally tells you that part of your soul binds to the canvas as you paint. Part of real Verso's soul is still generating the canvas and painting, despite real Verso being dead, because of this 'soul binding' process. Real Verso's soul is encouraged to stop painting by pVerso. Verso's soul is basically the Higgs-Boson field of the canvas. pVerso didn't end the canvas, he just encouraged its creator to let it stop.

It shows this to you so fucking clearly, and here you are debating it, like it's not a very plain fact.

>>713153350
Well the reasons my replies have been so sparse is because I’ve had this conversation dozens and dozens of times already. And I have nothing new to add that hasn’t already been said itt. Some other anons were talking about how the citizens of the canvas don’t matter and aren’t real as they cannot escape the canvas. I disagree with that, as does Renoir. It is tragic that they all are simply erased from existence in Versos ending. That is bad. That is sad. And there is plenty and grief and sorrow within Maelles ending as well and it’s dishonest when people reduce it to an idyllic escape from reality, a faux reality, when it is effectively just another dimension with sentiment beings. Neither ending is good. Neither ending is bad. It’s just a clash of ideals and I don’t quite understand the obsession with trying to reduce something so complex to le good or le bad.

Also I didn’t say I’m not a condescending prick, I just said your particular style reminds me of mine from back then lol Im just poking dont take it too seriously

>>713153941
Anon. You need to understand that painted worlds operate on painted rules, that's what the whole Chroma thing is about, and while the people born in Lumiere aren't explicitly, manually painted by Aline, she did paint the 'rules' that allow this to happen. This is why Alicia gets turned into Maelle as well, that wasn't Aline manually repainting her own daughter and then forgetting about it, that was the magical world enforcing its magical rules.

Alicia repainting things is already breaking the established rules, which she can do because she is a paintress, but they are conceptually not the same people anymore. Even in its best interpretation it's just the same problem as Soma, all they're making is a fresh copy while the original is left dead/to die.

>>713154142
>Explains something completely unrelated to the question that nobody asked about as it was never in question, proving once again that he cannot even comprehend the question
So yeah, you're retarded, we knew this already. Why not explain the Gestrals next if you're going to bring up elements entirely unrelated to the topic, faggot?

>>713154094
No, the more I see people defending Maelle's ending, the more I'm convinced they're just retarded teenagers just like Maelle is. The explanations all boil down to swathing assumptions like 'saving,' when it's recreating, claiming the Lumierians are sentient and independent entities, when that's never indicated to us. Then some dumb whataboutism like 'BUT PUT YOURSELF IN THEIR SHOES WHAT IF GOD PULLS THE PLUG ON US,' like it's all specious retardation at best. If you sided with Maelle, you're immature.

>>713154203
>that wasn't Aline manually repainting her own daughter and then forgetting about it,
maybe not manually, it seemed like it was autopilot, but no: it is 100% the case that aline painted Maelle over Alicia.

>>713154251
>b-but how can painted Verso undo the canvas
Just explained it to you twice and now you're trying to pretend it's unrelated. You're too stupid to function, Maelle fag.

>>713153813
if the ability to exit the canvas is your barometer for being "real" in the game universe, then yes, they aren't real. It isn't mine, though. I chose to judge them on what I observed them to be capable of, and found them real enough to warrant saving when I had the chance to. I take it you don't agree?

>>713153659
yeah but maelle now knows she can bring them all back. that's also why she's not mad at verso for letting gustave die. death isn't death anymore.

>>713154203
>This is why Alicia gets turned into Maelle as well, that wasn't Aline manually repainting her own daughter and then forgetting about it, that was the magical world enforcing its magical rules.
Clea literally says to Alicia to be prepared to be made into one of 'her' creations. Maelle fags inventing retarded reasons yet again.

>>713154150
Anon. The people in the painting, the real people, die in act 2. Act 3 is a simple yet apparently overly complex test; can YOU cope with the loss of Lumiere, with the ultimate failure of expedition 33 and move on, or will you join the likes of Aline in retreating in a lie, that lie being the Maelle ending where she 'fixes everything' despite that being conceptually and overtly impossible given the circumstances.

'Verso' is a real person, but he is also not really Verso. Lumiere is a real place, but the version Alicia creates is not really Lumiere. That's part of why the Maelle ending is bad, in addition to the many issues such as enslaving Verso's soul, wasting the life Verso gave her, and overall going against every narrative beat the narrative has been drumming into you since the start of the game. Yes, The very start where Gustave is struggling with approaching Sophie because of the past they share and risks losing those last beautiful moments they shared.

You have to keep moving forward. That is all the game is about.

>>713154265
I love the passion, you are in level two see:
>>713146292

Reflect more anon.

>>713154129
>He's right that she needs to be removed from it.
You are mistaking the intentions with the methods. Nobody questions his intentions. But he's so stubborn in his belief that he's right about how to solve it, he's not allowing other opinions.
>Clea acts tougher than she is because she's convinced herself she has to carry everyone through this tragedy
If she really cared about her family, Clea could've solved the issue with pulling Aline out within minutes, by putting more than an absolute bare minimum to help Renoir. If only for the sake of expediency. But she does, she instead just whines about how stupid everybody around her is, while not even bothering to solve the actual issue.
>It doesn't guarantee happiness but provides the possibility of it in the future
I don't believe that. Because so far, the Dessendres failed to notice they have a crippled daugther to take care off. Sure, you can put it all on faith, but the game failed to communicate they learned anything.