500k SIGNATURES

WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT

https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

Citizen's Initiative:
https://eci.ec.europa.eu/045/public/#/screen/home

UK Petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/702074/

>>713616896 (OP)
Holy cringe

THE MOVIE

>>713617070
Kys faggot

>>713616896 (OP)
>30 days left
yeah it's over

i believe in you yurop

>>713616896 (OP)
Nice that it got one last push but it's still going to fail.

>>713616896 (OP)
>WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT
Fuck me I can't hear this reddit shit anymore. Every time I hear it my body shrivels up into a cringe ball

It's been on like 440k two days ago, but now its getting covered by a bunch of big content creators because Ross clapped back against PirateSoftware

>>713616896 (OP)
what a waste of time

Nah I'd rather watch gaming die.

>>713617337
Legit only needs asmon commenting on it

>>713616896 (OP)
>Giving GAAS and gacha shit government bailouts
Yeah, nah.

>>713617367
>>713617389
>>713617070
>>713617334

>>713617367
Hi Thor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A1CCc_DClY

>>713616896 (OP)
QRD on what the fuck this is?
I keep seeing it spammed everyday this past week, is it some bongland shit again that doesn't concern Americhads?

>>713617473
based memri-tv poster

>>713617586
It's about helping live service crap, aka the cancer of gaming.

>>713616896 (OP)
just show some self restraint and stop buying always online games as a service slop, retard

>>713617435
>Legit only needs asmon commenting on it

Asmon is a faggot industry plant

>>713617586
You know how the European Union forced Valve to offer refunds and Americans benefited? It's like that but to stop companies from being able to shut down a game you paid for without any recompense or end of life support. No, it would not require companies to run the game servers forever.

>>713616896 (OP)
What if you had a business like "Forever Games" where you sign a deal with the developer to maintain a game's servers and online functionalities in exchange for like 30% of the revenue or something. You only really need to keep a server running and check back on it every week to make sure the game's playable.

>>713616896 (OP)
I swear I've seen millions of signatures for dumber things. Do gamers not want to save video games?

>>713616896 (OP)
We won't go quietly, the thorcucks can count on that.

Statist arguments ITT preview:
>pajeet
>contrarian
>how much is Ubisoft paying you to post ITT?
>is this post AI?
>I voted with my wallet but other people kept buying things I don't like! I'm calling the police!
>what do you mean additional labor costs additional money?
>OMG WHY ARE PEOPLE DEFENDING CORPORATIONS WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS SITE?
>it's the same as selling poison baby food!
>/v/ was always in favor of government regulation of video games! It's just election tourists disagreeing!
>the EU gave us amazing regulations like being able to easily refund games you just purchased!
>EULAs stating the game doesn't work forever don't count because you agree to them after buying the game!
>oh wait ignore that part about games being easy to refund
and when you try to get them to think more than one step ahead about the effects of begging for more video game regulation:
>I don't care I'm unemployed with no future and I want the industry to die

It's how dishonest children argue.

>>713617586
Basically movement to own the games you buy without publishers deciding you don't get to play it anymore.
https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

>>713617435
Asmongold would never support it anyway

>>713617792
This one is an actual real EU petition, not some random internet one
You need ID and everything

>>713617792
No, I want always online garbage to die and be forgotten. THAT is what will save gaming.

Why do you SKG discordfags keep bringing up some literally who youtuber as if anyone has any idea who the fuck he is? Keep your eceleb drama off /v/

Because of my job I have access to thousands of IDs and names. Should I do it?

>>713617070
>>713617070
>>713617305
>>713617334
>>713617367
Rope bootlickers.
Rope bots.

give up

>>713617792
>Do gamers not want to save video games
No one cares about the gaming industry other than what it provides at the current moment

>>713617924
A youtuber is literally the one spearheading the movement

>>713617897
This, you need to be 18+ and have proper EU citizen ID the same you use for voting in European elections. European Citizen Initiatives are not petitions. They are an actual mechanism for Europeans to interact with the EU governing body.

>>713616896 (OP)
>Europe
No one cares what the #4 market has to say about anything.
How about
>start buying games

If you go to the tracker there's currently a signature a second, which is pretty nuts

>>713617512
His name isn't Thor. That's his fursona or some bullshit. He has a normal-ass name and tricked people into thinking that his real name was Thor.

>>713617707
>>713617746
>>713617830
oh okay, thx 4 da xplanation.

I know the Britbongs and EUcocks still are able to dictate 99% of global business practices somehow, like how they forced Apple to switch to USB-C, which is insane to me that the rest of the business world complies.

Let's get some big and recurring talking points out of the way fast.
>it's just a video game, why would people/lawyers/the EU care?!
>no one cares
>they'll dismiss it anyways
Ignoring the elephant in the room how video games are THE biggest, most popular and most profitable entertainment media in the history of our planet, let's look at tangible evidence that proves for a fact that the EU is interested in bringing about a change for the betterment of the consumers.
>Commission and national authorities take action to protect children from harmful practices in video games
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_25_831
>Key principles on in-game virtual currencies
https://commission.europa.eu/document/8af13e88-6540-436c-b137-9853e7fe866a_en
These are not up for debate before the Commission or any other authority. These have already passed. They will be implemented in the future in some way, shape or form.

I hope I could alleviate the doubts of people or fence-sitters who are honest and open-minded about this topic before the shill campaign notices the existence of this thread.

>>713617937
Don't. Every scam could lead to making the petition not legitimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bEZQ00OOxY
corporations should be allowed to steal money of g*mers

shalom

>>713617746
Sounds cringe, fucking yuropoors getting uppity again.

>>713617757
gamespy

>>713618187
>That's his fursona
Nah, that one was Maldavius Figtree.

>Force game devs to spend more money doing more work to add an offline mode to be used when servers shut down a decade after the game releases even though LITERALLY NOBODY will use it (this entire movement is about The Crew which nobody cares about playing in 2025)
>according to SKG shills higher costs somehow won't lead to higher game prices because... uhhhhh... greedy game devs will just accept lower profits or take pay cuts to offset it
why does SKG seem like a Children's Crusade more than a serious movement?

>>713617827
*sprays you with anti-roach spray*

>>713617586
Initiative to require game devs to give live-service/online-only games playable offline modes. That way when a game dies, you still keep some product instead of just being out whatever you paid for it

>>713618210
tl;dr

>>713618187
>uses voice changer
>wants people to address him as "Thor"
What an insecure bitch

>>713618294
I love retarded posts like this.
You just can't make this shit up.

>>713618250
Do not give the EU any more power, please don't.

Be cool and vote.
Don't fall for industry propaganda, blatant lies, or "ironic shitposting".

>it fails just short of the goal
>faggots celebrate
>politicians decide to take a closer look anyway because such a niche issue getting anywhere close to the goal got their attention
This would be the funniest outcome, i think.

>>713618187
Thor is his middle name
His real name is Jason

>>713618206
To operate in those countries they have to follow their laws or get continously fined bigger and bigger numbers. Then they'd have to spend money and time even pulling out of the country, firing all employees, giving refunds for services provided in thay country, etc, if they wanted to take that route. It's a cascading effect of money for these places.

>>713618408
>stop stealing money
>"NOOOOOOOOOO THE GUBMINT HAS TOO MUCH POWER DIS IS ANUDDA NAZI HOLOCOWST!!!!"

>>713616896 (OP)
Why did you niggas sleep on this for like 8 months and now you're trying to rally the troops at the 11th hour.

>>713618187
His real name is Malding Davis Nigtree.

>>713618406
once again SKG shills have no answers, they just do what their eceleb friend simulator streamer tells them to

Reminder that only jeets and chinks have a problem with this petition

>>713618294
>Force game devs to spend more money doing more work to add an offline mode
Thanks for self-reporting as a thorcuck since thats the narrative he pushed, but not what its asking for.

>>713618342
The European Union is now VERY serious about dealing with greedy monetization practices.
New regulations against microtransactions are currently under works in finer detail.

>>713617937
That's tricky, there's no way to know how they might verify the signatures so it might actually harm the initiative and might come back to bite you in the ass. If the process doesn't have any form of real verification then whats a few dozen in case the that, by a miracle, we arrive very close to the threshold.

>>713616896 (OP)
>Let's kill all MMOs and GAAS
I'm ok with this.

>>713618509
U mad?

Honestly, I'm hoping we don't get the opposition trying to break TOS here by posting disturbing images.

>>713618294
>>Force game devs to spend more money doing more work to add an offline mode to be used when servers shut down a decade after the game releases even though LITERALLY NOBODY will use it
Honestly I just want greedy corporations to hurt for what they've already taken from me. Fuck you.

>>713618483
Jannies kept deleting the threads when it actually still had a chance. Now that it's basically impossible for it to pass, they're letting the threads live again so they can watch it fail.

>>713618483
why does this sound so kino for some reason.

I'm just picturing a big battlefield with an army of gamers on one side and studio execs/suits/legislators on the other

>>713618563
Are they including MMOs too or are you being disingenuous?

fuck the EU

>>713618483
Unironically, drama youtubers reported on it. That's not very dignified, but still a serendipity nonetheless.

>>713618509
It's been answered in every thread and bad faith faggots like you keep saying the same thing anyways. Hope you kill yourself, stupid nigger

>>713618636
holy marvel fellow sir

>Actually, games not being live service and reliant on central servers to function, multiplayer or singleplayer, is a good thing
There is not a single real human being on Earth that plays video games that agrees with this.
Everyone counter-shilling SKG shilling is an industry plant.

>>713617827
Why didn't you use the mana crystal?

>>713618709
They want all games to be playable forever. This kills MMOs.

>>713618763
who would be in the front saying, "gamers, assemble!"

>>713618483
Typical pub push

>>713618769
>good thing
bad*

>>713618817
>This kills MMOs.
they just want community servers for MMOs, its not even a new concept, tons of old MMOs are run and hosted by the community

>>713618817
What compels anon to lie?

Corporations to gamers: "you will own nothing and be happy"

>>713618817
Oh thats fucking dumb. I'm out.

>>713617337
I love Ross for actually walking the walk but holy shit how old fashioned in his thinking is he for not realising sooner you need drama and e-celeb support to get attention
All fhat time he spent doing interviews in small radio stations and niche youtube channs would have been better spent calling Thor a corpo dicksucker

>>713618737
There has never been an answer, just "oh no poor little AAA devs have to do more work" or "actually doing more work will save them money". Or you just dishonestly pretend that everyone disagreeing with you is hired by Ubisoft.

>>713618505

>>713618817
Actually, turning off the server kills an MMO. Crazy how that works?

>>713618276
>Furry
>Voice changer
>Narcisist that constantly likes own posts
>Always right, always doubles down
>Only rational human being on the planet
>Blizzard CEO
God how can I be as cool as "Thor"?

Oh, all 3 people who still give a shit about Warhammer Online will be so happy.

>>713616896 (OP)
If this were in america itd be completed in a month then promptly ignored

>>713618817
By giving the community the resources required to keep the MMO running themselves, like say, a private server

>>713618616
A lot of the more politically minded jannies did not return after the shutdown and doxxxing, easy to see that in hindsight now though. Should have been doing these since then, I bet they would have stayed up.

>>713618915
The petition is literally
>let people run peer-to-peer themselves if you're gonna kill your servers forever anyway
you disingenious nigger.

>>713618897
>Corporations to gamers: "you will own nothing and be happy"
Gamers: "I know who will save us from the WEF: unelected EU bureaucrats in Brussels!"

It really is impressive that the statement 'you have the right to consumer protections' is somehow anathema to certain users of this board.

>>713618994
How is Warhammer Online? I'd love to be able to explore the world in a game.

>>713617512
>the only other mega autist talker that stands a chance against the pent up gay wizard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk8CZfFktyo
Upon reflection, more thoughts about Stop Killing Games - Josh Strife Says - 279K subscribers 165K views 9 months ago

i dont want live slop like concord to live forever so I shan't be signing

There is a serious lack of foresight from the makers of this movement about how to rally Europeans. You'd think a petition regarding games that are often multiplayer would have more knowledge about which countries are willing to speak English and those that don't bother. For the latter, modern (as in, influencers and such, not associations that are more of a help for legal matters than gathering large numbers) efforts to bring awareness to the petition have been pretty abysmal.
The recent surge of content surrounding it is nice, but doesnt solve one of the core issues with the petition.

>>713619080
you have the right to pay 20% tax on every digital purchase

>>713618817
I can't believe Ross would ask for something so impossible. What a mess.
Am I doing it right Thorsisters?

They targeted gamers.

Gamers.

We're a group of people who will sit for hours, days, even weeks on end performing some of the hardest, most mentally demanding tasks. Over, and over, and over all for nothing more than a little digital token saying we did.

We'll punish our selfs doing things others would consider torture, because we think it's fun.

We'll spend most if not all of our free time min maxing the stats of a fictional character all to draw out a single extra point of damage per second.

Many of us have made careers out of doing just these things: slogging through the grind, all day, the same quests over and over, hundreds of times to the point where we know evety little detail such that some have attained such gamer nirvana that they can literally play these games blindfolded.

Do these people have any idea how many controllers have been smashed, systems over heated, disks and carts destroyed 8n frustration? All to latter be referred to as bragging rights?

These people honestly think this is a battle they can win? They take our media? We're already building a new one without them. They take our devs? Gamers aren't shy about throwing their money else where, or even making the games our selves. They think calling us racist, mysoginistic, rape apologists is going to change us? We've been called worse things by prepubescent 10 year olds with a shitty head set. They picked a fight against a group that's already grown desensitized to their strategies and methods. Who enjoy the battle of attrition they've threatened us with. Who take it as a challange when they tell us we no longer matter. Our obsession with proving we can after being told we can't is so deeply ingrained from years of dealing with big brothers/sisters and friends laughing at how pathetic we used to be that proving you people wrong has become a very real need; a honed reflex.

Gamers are competative, hard core, by nature. We love a challange. The worst thing you did in all of this was to challan

>>713618563
>game goes offline
>devs release a private server version for the players, free of charge
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2915930/Knockout_City__Private_Server_Edition/
Literally every game under the sun can be run locally.

>>713618709
It will, but all pre-existing games are unaffected. No regulatory law affect pre-existing products unless there are severe health risks. Which is funny because anti-shills always go about "oh it's hard to reshape game X to be played locally" when it won't be affected at all.

>>713618294
>Force game devs to spend more money doing more work to add an offline mode
So the game can always be in a playable state, and in turn the devs can still sell more copies over time?

>>713619080
It's almost like people can see through an inaccurate reductive statement like that

>>713616896 (OP)
Ross was a dumbass for waiting so long to make a response to pirate.

>>713616896 (OP)
>doxx myself for this

No, thanks. I will just pirate, because I can actually use a computer.

>>713619104
shit, I played it for a week when it came out whenever the hell that was

Have you tried not buying games with always-online requirements, dedicated servers, or microtransactions?

>>713619080
Doomers don't want things to get better.
Trying is cringe.

>>713616896 (OP)
He's still seething about The Crew...? Christ, get a life man

>>713619202
So you're not only an expert in game development but in game sales now too?

>>713617757
If you watch some of the vids about this it starts to seem likely many companies don't want offline game preservation in the hands of the customer because it makes it hard if not impossible to control things on the user side, including selling you new shit once you're content with the old.

Plus as we saw with Suicide Squad and other examples the kamikaze instructions for GaaS from those in charge outweighs all else, so even if consumers and devs agreed on anything if the money doesn't that's the end of the discussion as far as business is concerned.

>>713619160
Honestly I'd love to be able to at least try it down the line. Bazz posting made me want to see it in action for its retarded glory.

>>713618294
Gran Turismo 7 Career Mode requires internet connection. It would be fair that in future you could play it even without the developer servers.
EVEN if you cannot implement it on GT7, you could for future Gran Turismo games and other games that require internet connectivity for singleplayer stuff for some reason. Otherwise you have arbitrary block on the content that is on your game disc that you cannot legally access.
>The Crew which nobody cares about playing in 2025
Someone might want to play the copy of a game they own. Not right now, not at the same time as others, or such. But if you want to play a game you bought 20 years ago for example, you should be legally allowed to do it. Be it nostalgia or something else. Imagine if you couldn't play Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Singleplayer without internet connection to some 3DO or NWC servers.
It isn't as big of a developer cost to ship FUTURE games with that addition. To know that in future we have games that cannot be taken away from us.

>>713619264
>oh no the government will know my government ID

listen cattle
we will control the servers that dictate whether you can play your child games
we will steal your money as and when we see fit
we are superior and you are inferior
learn your place

>>713619264
Good luck in pirating The Crew 1.

>>713617070
Based. Fuck Eurocucks. Can't even fight for something they "believe" in lmao.

>>713619058
Well do you have any better suggestions then?

>>713619264
The EU already has your info, anon. It's how you got that ID in the first place.

>>713619264
>pirating a game with dead servers
You have to be 18+ to post here saar.

>>713619168
>efforts to bring awareness to the petition have been pretty abysmal
Ross is too good natured to go for the low hanging fruit and still optimistic enough to think a grassroots movement can run purely off grassroot support.
If he spent any amount of time shilling this to big names either overall or specifically Europeans we would have hit 500k within the first 4 months.

>>713616896 (OP)
Isn't this the campaign that was called out by Thor for trying to force indie devs to publish their source codes? And it was made by some Asmongold look-alike?

what are you fags even fighting for? so your favorite gacha game doesn't go EOS? there is not a live service game worth fighting in court for. single player wins again

>>713617217
This. Ross was too nice of a guy to be the one championing it. He doesn't have the grit or the charisma and was clearly punching above his weight. It's very admirable though. He put in the work.

>>713619235
>Ross was a dumbass for waiting so long to make a response to pirate.

No, waiting right before the finish line is actually smart. If you start beating your drum too early people eventually stop paying attention. It's much better to exploit FOMO at the last second

>>713619297
Well, why would you intentionally make a limited half-functioning product like it's snake oil. Long-term profits for a fully functioning product is better for the brand and company.

>>713619379
If it's dead it was never good to begin with.

>>713618817
>This kills MMOs
Okay I'm on board now. Fuck XIV troons.

>>713619369
don't beg the WEF controlled government to stop the WEF plan for starters

>>713619235
Yeah poor naive fool really thought reason and appeal to better nature was going to be enough lmao

>>713619407
This affects single player games too anon

>>713619507
So you don't

>>713619448
>No, waiting right before the finish line is actually smart
Maybe but definitely not when you still need 500k

>>713618294
>>Force game devs to spend more money doing more work to add an offline mode
1. That'd be fucking based.
2. It's not even necessary. It literally takes more work to take out LAN options to make an online-only game than it is to simply leave the LAN options in.
The LAN options are the default!

>>713619473
Then why are you pirating it.

Why do SKG shills in the thread all talk about "Ross" like he's their friend that they're on a first name basis with?

>>713619264
RETARDED BURGER
EVERY EU COUNTRY ALREADY KNOWS WHERE THEIR CITIZENS LIVE
BE SILENT

>>713619364
>>713619379
No one cares about The Crew

>>713616896 (OP)
but I don't care about keeping live service slop playable offline after servers get shut down

>>713619614
it's short and easier to say than accursedfarms

>>713619614
Do you refer to your president as Mr. Trump? What a dumbass fucking post.

>>713619614
What are we supposed the guy in charge of the movement if not by his name?

>>713619448
>mfw this was ross's plan the whole time

Not gonna happen lol.

>>713619614
Nah, you're right. It's moldman.

>>713617827
Thank God there is an anon here who isn't an underage European who sees the government as his personal super hero.

>>713619473
we have reached negative iq levels

>>713618817
>consumers are now too lazy and illiterate to manage the bare minimum of typing their names out at home to hold onto their rights
Huxley was right

>>713619058
I don't care about your retarded ancap retardation
*sprays bottle at you*

I honestly couldn't care any less about GaaS cancer, nor the people that fund it.

>>713619264
You do understand that your country knows where you live, anon? Like they know your address and full name, otherwise your government ID wouldn't work anywhere...
You are a citizen of your nation, not a random dude nobody knows about in your country.

>>713619697
The correct term is Mr. President or President Trump. He's the leader of the free world and should be addressed as such you fucking pinko.

>>713619407
>WHY DO YOU CARE, I SURE FUCKING DON'T
ok

>>713618408
>Do not give the EU any more power, please don't.
Shut the fuck up Ivan.

Daily reminder that THIS is what SKG wants the EU to do to video games with regulations

>>713619760
With that cue.

>>713618294
>Force game devs to spend more money doing more work to add an offline mode

In 90% of cases, they wouldn't need to add an offline mode, they'd just need to allow LAN connections

Also, the law could be worded to require ZERO effort of the developers, and instead to just permit users to break DRM and mod the game to restore functionality on their end

>>713619890
Good

>>713616896 (OP)
Good luck EU bros. Rooting for you.

>the EU is... LE GOOD now
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/06/eus-encryption-roadmap-makes-everyone-less-safe

>>713619890
Reminder you fucked a ferret.

>doomers will unironically larp as bootlickers and make the most retarded posts you have ever seen, just for the privelege of disowning themselves of games they buy
What do you call that? What mentality breeds this level of self-cucking?

>>713618817
You're a conceited little bitch, Jason.

>>713619341
>>713619373
>>713619621
>>713619819
I don't want corporations to retaliate against me, getting block-listed etc. I do actually have a real life and career outside of /v/, just fyi.

>>713617586
It concerns everybody, but only Euros can join the petition. If the EU passes a law that game companies need to give offline versions of online games at EOS, it'll be available worldwide.

>>713619890
I still don't understand what's the issue with the bottlecaps staying on. Less plastic waste around everywhere.
I haven't met a single person IRL who complains about them.

>>713620025
You don't own any digital games.

>>713620092
You're not even an EU citizen Jason.

>>713620025
Post-ironic contrarianism has hit critical mass so we have people rallying behind having their lives made worse to spite something or another.

>>713620114
and you WILL be happy

This board is full of zoomzooms (or worse, alphoomers) that don't even understand the concept of self-hosting a dedicated server, and how this petition might've increased the chances of devs providing dedicated server software like in the good ol' days.
What do you think - that all of these dedicated servers for SWAT 4 went poof after GameSpy shutting down? As if you ever knew what GameSpy was because you zoomers are used to centralized servers.

>>713620025
I don't support GaaS garbage. If the game can't be pirated, you shouldn't buy it.

>>713618250
europe is pretty much the only place actually forcing american corporations to stop buttfucking customers so hard.

>>713619278
I shop only from GOG but i still support this initiative.

>>713619945
Unions and corporations are not "good" or "bad" like in superhero movies. You as a citizen and consumer are meant to steer these entities by supporting their good actions and preventing the bad ones, not worship whatever entity shat out the previous thing that was beneficial for you.

>>713620206
no, the EU just hits them with retarded fines because they have no tech industry of their own that would be impacted by stupid regulations
they have to pay for all of those "refugees" somehow

>mfw there are people in this thread who want power to be in the hands of people who aren't them

>>713620101
>it'll be available worldwide
That's what everybody said when the EU forced Apple to allow 3rd party app stores. Instead Apple geofenced EU users and banned them from ever getting any new features on their phones ever again. Any EU citizen who leaves the area only has like a week before 3rd party stores get disabled.
Game companies will do something similar, they'll run a server just to check if you're in the EU and you'll need to upload your ID and then they'll give you offline access.

>>713620206
Does Facebook unironically think the EU doesn't rape European tech companies that step out of line?

>>713620302
>the EU just hits them with retarded fines
Good

>>713620183
The reason why dedicated servers died is because gamers are cattle. It's as shrimple as that.

>>713620321
I'm a gamer, hear me ROAR

>>713620025
It's called being american. If you dont have living standards, no one should.

>>713620321
I agree it's idiotic to give up power over the product you own to some corpo

>>713620323
And then they'll have to deal with millions of mentally ill gamers, do you think they'll be able to handle the smell alone?

>>713619890
What exactly is the problem? For me it's now easier than ever to open and close the bottle one-handed.

>>713620102
the even funnier part is you can just rip it off if you don't like it
it's just flimsy plastic, barely requires any force

>>713620302
they deserve it, maybe the EU can force apple to bring back headphone jacks like how they're trying to get smartphone companies to have swappable batteries like cell phones used to..

>>713617792
Iirc Ross wanted to see how far the petition could go as a grass-roots movement and so he decided not to advertise it or get any e celebs to talk about it, which basically killed any chance of it actually succeeding.

>>713620337
What yuro tech companies even exist other than Siemens (heh).

>>713620025
Contrarianism. That's it. Some people can get out of it after a while but some people decide it is their whole life.
It is like playing a team game, not vidya but any team game like sports, and throwing the game and making yourself miserable because someone who you don't like wants your team to win. Or just majority of people wants your team to win. It doesn't matter if it's a player on your team or on other team or spectator or whatever.
These people just kneejerk contrarian over it and cannot stop. It's addicting.

But it is something most people grow out of, and rest just spends most of their energy doing it.
In my view of these threads, the split of people who are "against" SKG are
>70% contrarians we talked about
>15% genuinely misinformed because of the contrarians and because of
>10% PirateSoftware fans who are angry at the movement
>5% industry plants or works on industry aka PirateSoftware kind of people who wants less regulations and don't understand it benefits them in long run to avoid shitty drama and possible legal stuff

Reminder that deep down, the European Union is a bitch of the USA, like yurop as a whole after WWII, and when Washington D.C. really wants something, they are sure to pull the right strings.
>The European Commission delayed the acquisition for several months over questions about Oracle's plans for MySQL, Sun's competitor to Oracle Database. The DG COMP of the European Commission finally approved the takeover, apparently pressured by the U.S. DOJ Antitrust Division to do so, according to a diplomatic cable leaked in September 2011.

>>713620025
>larp
you are on the board that has been shitting itself over piracy for decades

>>713619058
>unelected EU bureaucrats in Brussels!"
The EU has elections, dumbfuck.

>>713619890
Ignoring the bait part, seriously, ever since this regulation was set in stone, the streets were so much cleaner.
Now I'm just a balkan anon, but seeing plastic cups thrown around was disheartening. Bus stations or the middle of the road.
Turns out of you implement the smallest of changes to a system, the literal scums of the earth will be dissuaded and won't litter on the streets because now it's "too much hassle" or whatever.
While there is obviously still a lot of room for improvement, the streets have never been cleaner.
If this ever goes through, I genuinely hope it reaches as much effect as that little plastic thingy.

>>713619278
I only play old shit nowadays. The thing is, I want new games to be worth purchasing and playing too.

>>713620864
>Some people can get out of it after a while but some people decide it is their whole life.
>It is like playing a team game
says the Ross discord shill who has been posting SKG threads for a full year

>>713620652
We've ISPs and game devs.

Bump

>>713620102
>>713620437
>I love these chains! Thank you master!

>>713620025
Contrarianism, but that's ok. That's how /v/ is supposed to be, you see.

>>713621005
Not that anon. GaaS shit takes a shitload of money to produce and extremely risky, traditional games without any of that cancer will continue to exist. Do you think garbage like Concord or nu-Destiny were low-budget games?

>>713619160
the thing you're missing is that something like concord wouldn't even be made in the first place if this passed.

>>713620302
>no, the EU just hits them with retarded fines
How the fuck do you think regulations work?! Lining up people before a wall and shoot them if they don't cooperate with laws?

>>713620025
>any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots, will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe themselves to be in good company
We're currently suffering the consequences.

>>713620025
You don't own digital games
And I couldn't care less about some live service shit that's unplayable anymore because I don't buy garbage from garbage companies, this petition does nothing for me

Just don't publish your GaaS in the EU after this retarded bill passes.

>>713621120
Silly anon, you can't just say Bump. You have to post the most retarded take known to human ingenuity and get the bumps for free.

>>713621451
This doesn't effect just digital games
iirc there was a tony hawk game, the physical disc had just 1 level on it, it has to connect to a server to download the other levels
that server isn't online anymore

If underage SKG shills are any indication the EU is totally fucked. Your future generations absolutely love the government boot and think forcing people to do things they don't want to will solve every problem despite it never working out that way.

>>713619160
I thought Concord was hot ass from day 1 but as long as one retard enjoyed playing it he should be allowed to play i

>>713621480
It's a large enough market for complying to be vastly cheaper than pulling out. Then the publisher has a chance to make a separate shittier product for the rest of the world at the risk of looking bad and having their customers using VPNs to access the less predatory EU edition anyway.

>>713621124
Imagine not being able to remove and put back on a plastic cap. These children need their daddy EU for every retarded little thing.

>>713621480
>just lose all those money
Hey, i'm fine with publishers not publishing GaaS here. Plenty of singleplayer games to play without GaaS ever coming into the picture.

>>713618915
you're fucking retarded for believing anything on first glance, the guy has no idea what he's talking about.

>>713621619
If you have any other solution to the problem, please tell the class

>>713621451
>You don't own digital games
That's a good happy paypiggy.

>Just make online based games last until Earth is sucked into a black hole, what's the big deal? Only contrarians think that's pointless and unreasonable!
Maybe you guys should have picked a less retarded platform if you wanted more support

>>713621480
that’d be such spectacularly bad avoidable PR I’d almost like to see it
>sorry euros we aren’t allowed to brick out product on a whim so we’re not releasing it there
>EU gamers: ok
>US gamers: what?

>>713621759
EU is an absolutely tiny market compared to SEA and NA that most GaaS will not give a flying fuck if they have to skip the region because of their retarded laws. It'll cost them more to comply with the law then they'll ever make there.

>>713618443
he has no middle name.
Thats just another one of his chronic lies
jason got his dad to defend him for some pathetic shit, and his dad called him jaso...uh i mean thor. he had to stop himself and rephrase what he was saying, because the lesbian ass looking loser told his dad to refer to him as thor

>>713616896 (OP)
The only thing Europe is good for is passing laws that make you click cookie acknowledgement buttons at the bottom of every website, even when you don’t live in Europe.

>>713621905
I don't need a solution to a non problem. I don't care about The Crew.

Game Dungeon when Moldman?

>>713617512
As much as I dislike him he has the right to not be interested in engaging with anyone for any reason. That being said anyone else has the right to criticize him for that.

>>713622087
This reminds me of that time a youtuber called f4mi complained about some Japanese website not serving yurop not realising the reason why.

>>713617906
>>713620186
>>713617906
>>713621451
So does thor pay you, or is it genuine, candid stockholm syndrome at work?

>>713620114
Mabye we should change that. But since you're a contrarian you would be against that aswell.

>>713616896 (OP)
noice
>>713617070
fuck blizzard corpo nepobaby shills

>>713622249
I'm paid by Babel Media 1,488 GBP per post. Keep it up, please. I need a new gold mansion.

>>713622148
Cool neither do i, i care about other games that can have the plug pulled at any time though

>>713622079
Then why does Apple still sell its products in Europe instead of "skipping the region" when they were forced to use USB-C?
Why did they bend the knee instead of saying goodbye? Wouldn't a profit oriented company choose the better option when it comes to sales? If they though skipping the EU would benefit them, why didn't they? Maybe it's not as tiny of a market as you think it is.

>>713617070
I didn't know about this until I saw that pirate video.

it was so unbelievable I had to check for myself just to make sure he wasn't misinterpreting it. Turns out he was misinterpreting it.

>>713617719
>>713617435
Asmon defended Thor in the Dire Maul drama and later recorded a video with him about Ashes of Creation.
He will avoid this topic because then he'd have to go against his buddy.

>>713622249
It’s literally bait, nearly every one of those posts in these threads say the exact same bait because it gets a response and that (you) is a nice little dopamine kick for them

>>713622079
Shareholders will be happy to see 20-30% profit drop on their companies while the other companies who adds the 13mb patch on their game after their own support on it ends will chug along happily.

>>713622249
Do you think everyone follows obscure eceleb faggotry like you do? Why do you dishonestly accuse everyone of being eceleb shills when you are the only one bringing them up?

>>713622353
Because Apple obviously isn't as smart as that anon.

>>713622087
fun fact: Any website that has that popup is not worth using

>>713622403
Nah, I'm just gesturing at a rat and watching it scramble.

>>713617924
I just enjoy shitting on Thor
t. not a discordfag

>>713622353
>when they were forced to use USB-C?
Because they already were planning to. iPads were already beginning to use USB-C since before the mandate and iPhones were only a matter of time.
They did give the EU a big fuck you by making sure nearly every new feature of their latest operating systems are completely unavailable in the EU, but work everywhere else. Can't regulate stuff you don't have access to, so the EU cannot force them to give greater access to 3rd parties then they already have.

MTXs are like 60% of the income in gaming.

>>713622219
Yes, absolutely. It's just that the reasons he gave up can only be interpreted in bad faith considering the way Ross approached him and the way he replied.
Just saying he didn't want to would be better than attacking Ross while misinterpreting everything he said (again).

>>713618131
Delusional. Steam refunds and Apple changing the port proves you wrong.

>>713617070
It's clear that the actions of this group would directly hurt your bottom line

>>713622079
>most GaaS
Can you name some? The EU has already passed several DRM and MTX laws and not a single publisher has opted to skip over complying.

>>713622079
Is the eu's population lower or higher than the usa?

Why do you think it's reasonable to force developers to support games into perpetuity? That's ridiculous. You're all retarded.

PirateSoftware's reply(that he deleted for some reason)

>/v/ wants the same government entity that funded Dustborn to regulate what can and cannot be in video games
Wow this sounds pretty stupid, but I guess being able to play The Crew in 2025 is more important than anything else

>>713622353
They will soon have to add user replaceable batteries to their devices soon. Fuck rotten fruit.

>Nintendo closed down two of its mobile games, Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp and Fire Emblem Heroes for Belgian users, as both offer the ability to use real-world money to buy a random in-game item.

>>713622675
Apple moved to USB C starting in 2015 with the Macbook (had a single USB C port and nothing else), 9 years before the EU mandated they do so. They were already going that direction. The EU didn't do shit.
The EU Digital Markets Act is what Apple really hates and what they're fighting against, with the threat of completely leaving the market if the courts don't back down.

>another raid
You lost
Ross is an idiot and this was doomed from the start
It's time to stop posting

>>713622873
I guess waterproof phones are going to be illegal in the EU now

>>713622869
>I guess being able to play Tribes Ascend in 2025 is more important than anything else
Yes, only reddit would want to keep it dead to avoid further humiliation

>>713623026
False dichotomy.

Funny thing is that if this petition passed and EU would do something about it, it would only apply to future products

Say bye bye to all the old shit that will remain unplayable forever

>>713622837
What the fuck are you imagining, for Da Wei's bloodline to carry on making Genshin Impact waifus until the heat death of the universe? They're literally only asking for an official offline or p2p patch after EoS.

>>713620025
I think covid might've played a part in this place becoming more retarded. Everyone started using the internet more often and that means more retards will come on here and dilute the place even further.

>>713616896 (OP)
Based, keep it going.

>>713622079
It’s wild how retards like you actually believe the EU is a tiny market. The EU has like 450 million people which is larger than the US.

>>713622045
Chet Faliszek posted a pretty pitch-perfect video on the "discourse" around this.

It's Ross and his latchers-on being told by myriad sources that their proposal is ill-conceived and a bad approach for their stated goal while they screech "SHILL CORPO WHY DO YOU HATE GAMES WE DON'T NEED TO MAKE SENSE OTHER PEOPLE WLL DO THAT" at the top of their lungs

>>713623253
The problem is everyone in the EU gives 90% of their money to taxes so they don't have any money left over to buy products.

>>713623172
that's been understood since it was pitched

>>713622079
>higher population than the US
>collective of 30+ developed countries
>the third largest market for vidya behind the US and Japan
>tiny

>>713623253
He is right that GaaS don't give much of a fuck about the EU since they have trouble finding foot in the market, unlike with the US and SEA.

>>713616896 (OP)
The jews will shake this whole planet up in WW3 before they let you have this win.

i will singlehandedly destroy ubisoft

>>713622926
Why did apple only swith to usb c for their phones with the iphone 15, in 2023, then?
8 years seems like a long time for something they supposedly wanted to do.

>Act like a retard
>Be called out
>Play the victim
He is a kike, isn't it?

>>713623515
Because they got a fuck ton of flack in 2012 when the abandoned 30-pin for lightning and obsoleted millions of accessories overnight.
Lightning was announced as "the standard for the next 10 years" and they stuck with it except on the iPad Pro which got USB-C in 2018.

>>713623554
Nah, that's unfortunately just how he is.

>>713619289
The Crew is just a good excuse, also it partially already worked because Ubishits said The Crew 2 will have an offline mode.

>>713623554
He does this everytime. Every controversy

>>713623554
Nepobaby with huge following and religious fans. He's at the point that he can lie to himself and believe it.
He's absolutely fucked.

>>713616896 (OP)
When has an online petition ever worked, ever?

>>713619289
You had to be there man, The Crew™ was the greatest game ever made, but now it's gone, like tears in the rain....

>>713616896 (OP)
To be honest, hosting my own MMO private servers was the most fun thing ever. I remember doing it for WoW, RotMG and Aion online. It'd be fucking awesome if MMOs actually let you do this after EoS.

>>713617512
His name is Jason, not Thor

>>713623554
Qrd?

>>713623354
>third behind two single countries
lmao

>>713623905
That literally was the QRD, anon.

>>713623824
In the EU? Many many times because they actually care about their citizens. These petitions are legally binding. With enough signatures, they have to go to court.

>>713623935
I don't know who that is and want to be spoonfed, is what I mean.

>>713622854
What a fucking fag.
He got absolutely blasted for misunderstanding the point, Rossman himself blasted him for misunderstanding the point as well even if he's acting otherwise.

>rosscucks still at it
touch grass gooner ahh diddies

>>713624002
He's a retarded retard who acted like a retard while desperately trying to pretend he's not a retard

In other words, if you don't know, you really shouldn't care.

>>713623939
>Many many times because they actually care about their citizens.
So true, beastie.
>>713619945

>>713623824
>citizens initiative
>anon thinks it's a petition
What causes this mindset?

>When
https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/find-initiative_en?CATEGORY%5B0%5D=any&STATUS%5B0%5D=ANSWERED&SECTION=ALL
Take your pick.

>>713623939
>they actually care about their citizens
holy fuck you people are stupid

>>713623554
Crazy this guy hasn't trooned out yet, he's absolutely the type both in appearance and personality

>>713623665
That was only a problem because it's proprietary tech. Nobody bitched and moaned when they switched to usb c since it was already widely by everything else.

>>713623939
Oh yeah? Cool, then.

>>713622262
I'm sure you'll get people to go against online patches. Remember, if it's not all on the disc, you don't own it.

>>713616896 (OP)
I will never forgive blizzard for what they did to warcraft 3. Never give these companies an inch. Never let them decide you don't own what you pay for.

Remember when there was a petition and demand for MW2 to include dedicated servers? Some people tried but mostly it was a total failure. Now games just ship without them altogether and we lost that uniqueness outside of stuff like TF2.

Gamers, people just don't care about this shit.

>>713618592
They will eventually.

>>713619168
>the makers of this movement
Literally one guy
why do you expect one guy, who isn't even that popular to know exactly how to run a political campaign?
He shouldn't be the one responsible for it, but NO ONE ELSE stepped up.

>>713616896 (OP)
Ross really should have shilled this to more streamers and content creators that aren't English speaking.

>>713624264
>Remember when there was a petition and demand for MW2 to include dedicated servers?
A petition is not a citizens initiative. Citizens initiatives are legally binding.

>need to have 14k votes daily to reach 1m
>currnt hype will absolutely peter out within 2 weeks, if not 1
I think we all know how this is gonna end

>>713617827
all of those arguments are true
now choke on jew cock retard

>>713624167
>even single player requires always-online connection
>someday the servers will shut down and you can't even play the single player campaign anymore
Yeah somebody there deserves to go to hell for that one.

>>713622854
>PirateSoftware's reply(that he deleted for some reason)
he's putting the sole blame for the hate messages on ross when most of the messages were mocking him for the WoW mana gem thing

>>713623905
>>713624002
>Ex-developer internet influencer severely misunderstands a european initiative
>He is called out for it
>He then doubles and triples down because he is egotistic
There you go

>>713624264
>Remember when there was a petition and demand for MW2 to include dedicated servers?
This is not a petition. This is a European Citizens Initiative.

>>713622854
He's only posting this because Cr1tikal clowned on him.

>>713624167
Cucksoomers don't even care about their rights getting stripped away, this is why we get shafted.

>>713624384
>>713624437
Yeah, the point is that 99% of gamers will happily eat shit. They just consoom to everyone's detriment.

>>713622219
>Lie
>Make fun of someone
>Call him names and his whole initiative shit
>Lie more
>Lie even more about it
>Say that you are against it and will make sure it won't succeed
>Said guy approaches you politely
>Make more fun of him
>Lie even more
>Say that you won't have any discussion with him
>Throw more insults in general

>Finally 10 months later the said guy addresses in video what you got wrong and where you lied and presented that you act like an asshat
>"Waah you took me out of context you are mean I would've been okay with talking about it waaah you are mean why are you so rude you are taking me out of context you drama attention meanie!!!!!"
It is just plain retarded situation. If you lie about something actively and refuse to have any dialogue about it, you are kind of an asshole. And he's playing a victim.
That's what sucks the most about this. It's even worrying that he's a live service game developer and he spreads lies about stuff relevant to his industry.

The only thing I wish is that GOG had more competition in the DRM-free market. Humble Bundle was great for that, and they even funded Mac and Linux ports, but ever since that fucking THQ bundle, it was over.

>>713624087
>Take your pick.
>petition to stop the killing of unborn children got answered
>answer is "lol no"

>>713623447
>>713624092
i don't care if things look hopeless.
i'm not going down without a fight.
this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to enshrine digital ownership rights in our legislation.
the ramifications would be huge and affect things beyond videogames.
i WILL see this through.

>>713616896 (OP)
I could care less about GAAS games. But seeing this get traction at the cost PS getting shitted on is hilarious.

Not an EU citizen so there's basically jackshit I can do. It's disheartening.

>>713624264
There are at most 100 000 gamers across the world and they don't buy MW2.
casuals are the problem and it's why every publishers in the world try to get their money instead of gamers.

>>713623319
chet is genuinely losing his mental faculties and regularly argues with random people on the internet for little to no reason

>>713624646
>EU says you have to put a label that says the game servers may not remain operation until the heat death of the universe
wow, you did it reddit!

>>713624735
Do tell your EUfrens to vote if they can.

>>713624586
That's just humanity in a nutshell.
People will happily eat shit, use lead painting or visit hospitals with a Therac machine simply because they don't know better.
If you're not part of the masses in this regard, (You) need to know better. Not by humiliating people for buying paint that kills people but by bringing in change that such a paint is removed from the shelves so people don't kill themselves obliviously for not knowing what lead does to you in the long-term.

>>713624095
he's already cultivated too much of a Cool Dude Deep Voice public image

>>713624735
literally just shill about it in all your socials and friend circles

Remember how we failed at hyping things up?
Let's do that the second time.

>NOOOOO STOP KILLING MODERN SLOP

I disagree, kill more.

>>713624960
Aren't e-celebs on our side this time? Surely we can do this

>>713624991
You don't get it, anon. If Start Killing Goys doesn't pass, there will be retroactive patches for PSX, C64 and DOS games requiring perpetual internet connection to play.

>>713623905
@grok could you summarize this for me?

>>713618921
/v/ would’ve bitched and moaned about SKG being normal and Reddit had he done that.

>>713616896 (OP)
>people care more about their interactive toys being taken away than the ongoing genocide in Palestine
I hate this world.

>>713624991
Literally this.
Hilarious how annoying tgese modern slop consoomers are

>>713623319
>propose that video game companies cant arbitrarily disown you for something you pay for
>the projected costs and devtime are minimal, all the work is shifted onto the communities that continue to play these games after the servers are shut down
>it's bad because... well, it just IS OK, this celeb said so
Nah brah I'm sure doing nothing will work out better for consumer rights in the long run. Just give up and let our wise company leaders decide what to do. They would never act out of our interest.

>>713625206
>muh Palestinian genocide
Why should I care about the same groups of people trying to kill me and my family?

>>713618294
>Force game devs to spend more money
I'm a dev. Neither devs nor publishers are spending more money on this, retard.
>his entire movement is about The Crew which nobody cares about playing in 2025
No, that's only the game that lit the fuse because it was a perfect example coming from an EU company

>>713625206
sir you seem lost
this is /v/ideogames

stop buying into GaaS

>>713623332
>The problem is everyone in the EU gives 90% of their money to taxes so they don't have any money left over to buy products.
Source: your ass.

>>713625206
This is a board for video games though?

>>713625315
>doing more work doesn't cost more money
when your movement is founded on obvious lies like this it makes people tune out everything else you say

>>713625206
They obviously don't since it's only reached 500k signatures a month from the deadline.

>>713623909
The EU is basically one market because consumer rights are the same for every member.

>>713625206
>A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important question. It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences toward a false conclusion.

>>713625206
Why are you here instead of fighting in Palestine then?

>>713625382
Why are you replying to world's worst bait anon. Did your parents teach you nothing?

>>713624092
Go back to /pol/ subhuman.

>>713619890
>posts an example of regulations having a good outcome
ok

>>713625206
People like you who think we need to care about a conflict nowhere near us that has gone on for thousands of years and will NEVER EVER END are ridiculous

>>713625425
Don't worry, modern slop will just use AI for it so no work is needed.

>>713625206
I agree, we should nuke Israel AND stop killing games.

>>713618334
ha, that'd be something, but there are billions on the other side that are going to prevent any of that ever happening, governments like money more than their citizens.

>>713625360
They can be extremely lucrative. Your favorite developer will make one eventually. They need to be regulated.

>same bad faith arguments debunked every thread
>concern trolling by americans
>"but what if the EU gets hacked my info is leaked?"
it's all so tiresome

>>713620652
ASML

>>713624136
why are you such a cuck though

>>713616896 (OP)
Total game death.

>>713620547
>it's just an entirely pointless extra step like accepting cookies on every website, so what's the big deal? inconvenience is based!

>>713625425
>allowing somebody else to run peer-to-peer costs money
Is this an instance of zoom-zooms being too retarded to understand how internet works, or just an anon merely pretending?

>>713616896 (OP)
>Please please, help us SAVE games like CONCORD.
No.

>>713625425
Existing games would not need to comply. When you start a new project, you start it by making a less retarded project architecture which actually allows trimming out unnecessary shit. So, yes, it's literally free.

>>713616896 (OP)
Already all preserved on PC, only consolefags cry about this shit. Retards

>>713625780
Yes anon. Spending time adding in things you wouldn't have otherwise costs money. If you had a job you would know that.

>>713625803
Even existing games could easily be made to at least keep any single player or vs bots thing open.

>>713625821
Please tell me how I can host my own offline drm-free Path of Exile server.

>>713625784
Concord belongs in a museum faggot.
It's the biggest gaming live service failure.

Wait a minute, I can ignore GaaS slop.

>>713625868
So full-body ironic retardation, got it.

>>713625770
Anon the majority find it convenient
pandering to the 2% is retarded

A Swedish ID number is DOB (YY)YYMMDD + 3 random digits + control digit.

>>713625784
I'll fight to save 5000 shit games if I can also save 100 good ones in the process

>>713625976
so convenient that nobody asked for it besides retarded Great Thunberg acolytes

Its over. This is a waste of time.

>>713625995
They are going to verify if they are real people after it's done.

If a game has GaaS shit, it's not good, and it will never be good.

>>713625784
>shit games exist, so stop thinking about corporate cock ramming down your throat
Huh?

>>713625803
>it's free as long as you cut other content to make up for the added costs
damn... what a great argument...

>>713625360
>>713625929
Even most "normal" multiplayer games don't have the decency to add options for LAN/direct IP/dedicated server these days

>>713625929
>walk on the street
>see a hole in the ground
>"wait a minute, I can just ignore the hole and not fall in!"
>"hey anon, do you want to do something about the hole so people won't fall in?"
>"No, I'll just keep ignoring it which is just as good as getting the hole in the ground fixed!"

>>713626042
yes, and? people don't generally think of improvements for every little thing in their lives
Yet they can still appreciate improvements when they do happen

I only play single player games so I dont really give a shit about this. The people who are obsessed with online games are the ones who ruined this industry with their retard tier behaviour like buying skins and other worthless bullshit.

>>713626220
Why would I care about other people falling in? Stupid people aren't my problem.

>>713626047

>>713626173
And those are bad too, and not worth supporting.

>>713625884
If they were developed by retards who tightly coupled everything then it's not as simple. Or rather, it is "simple" if you release the source code or full server binaries. But that's not what devs nor publishers would want. They'd want to create a minimal game server.
And, as a dev, I'm explaining that this is fully possible and wouldn't cost a single penny because the projects would be started with this in mind.
Shit that can't be shipped in these theoretical end of life builds, like monetization services, anti-cheat services, etc. are all optional and mockable in dev builds even today.

>>713626160
Are you pretending to be dumb? I'm talking about shipping game clients and minimal game servers which aren't entangled with all the optional components of the game, like the DRM, anti-cheat, payment services, user registration, etc.
You're not cutting any content here.

so what is this drama about? qrd?

>>713616896 (OP)
you are not entitled to a companies trademarks or intellectual property even if they decide to discontinue support

>Community hosting their private servers of my favorite modernslop once the company decides to pull the trigger since they are not getting infinite money from it

>>713626317
Why? Why don't you want to better your community? Isn't america fond of happy stories how small towns come together and do something for the common good?

>>713626363
>/v/aggot hates fun
Should've expected it

>>713617070
name me one reason why this is cringe.
you can't, unless you are a corpo bootlicker

>>713626404
eceleb discord shills trying to get EU bureaucrats to add new regulations to video games in order to save The Crew, a racing MMO from 2014 that shut down last year

>>713616896 (OP)
We can dream, hope, I've already done my part but I don't know if I have much hope.

>>713626507
Keep supporting with money the devs that hate the idea of (You) having rights over the shit you buy. I'm sure that will work out.

>>713626512
>corpo
you can't even type 2 sentences without cringe

>>713626404
People wanting regulations that causes devs to give consumers the means to keep a game running after they end service, like private servers, as an example

>>713626404
Ironic and unironic corpo shills telling you that you should just take it and there is no way to prevent it.

>>713625784
i would save hitler AND stalin and their entire armies if it meant i could save hawken in the process

>>713626492
I want them to be intelligent or gotten rid of.

>>713626404
Europeans can make it a law that video game publishers can't just randomly decide that a game is dead and permanently block your access to it, under the condition that you've paid for the game and the game did not at the time of payment disclose the exact time when the service it relies on will die.

So, if you paid for something like Diablo 4 then Blizzard would be legally forced to make the game playable with a self-hosted server, or they'd have to release the game server binaries so that people can still play the game. Because they're selling it as a one time purchase instead of a monthly/yearly subscription service like WoW.

>>713626404
You WILL own nothing and you WILL be happy. STOP resisting.

where's the petition to kill anyone who plays a freemium game/gacha/MMO/live service "game"?
That's really what's killing games.

>>713626317
social empathy is what distinguishes humans from pigs

>>713626404
To give people the right to own the games they buy.
Or more specifically to be allowed to run servers for EOS'd online only games

Now that the EU has killed off all small local farms they are going to kill video games. So based! Only contrarians think this is a bad thing!

>>713618187
nepobaby it is then

>>713626782
That's retarded. How would they make sure the rights holders get a cut of the money these new private servers would make? Not gonna happen.

>>713625678
>They can be extremely lucrative. Your favorite developer will make one eventually. They need to be regulated.
see this issue isn't my issue because I will not buy into GaaS.
YOU HOWEVER ARE BUYING INTO THE GaaS
GROW SOME FUCKING BALLS AND TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY

>>713626358
no im just black pilled

>>713626918
Nigga, even online-only mobile games have offline versions when they went end of service. It's basically the same thing

>>713626918
why would a private server make money

>>713626848
>social empathy is what distinguishes humans from pigs
bruh you care more about your toy video games than the middle east genocide going on right now

>>713626918
Why would they "get the cut"? They're ending the service, they no longer want to make any money from it.

>>713627014
Do you think a group of people would put in the effort to run, maintain, moderate, and update a server for free?

>>713626984
You don't get it, being fan of X dev means having no self-control and buy EVERY SINGLE THING they produce, even if it has shit you're against.

>>713626878
>dont sign it, it's killing games, just give up and do nothing
>how is it killing games?
>it's more work
>no it isnt, the communities handle it
>YES IT IS SHUT UP, WHO CARES ABOUT THESE GAMES ANYWAY? STOP THINKING!

>>713620092
>I do actually have a real life and career outside of /v/, just fyi
Maybe you should return to it then since you're clueless retard

>STOP. KILLING. GAMES!!!

>>713616896 (OP)
STOP. RESISTING.

MODS DELETE THIS, NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW

Quote from /g/

>This has nothing to do with development cost, it's all about planned obsolescence. Publishers WANT games to be inaccessible at some point because then players would be forced to buy a new one.

>The worst thing for publishers is for games to never die, because people would still play old games. There's even a study that was done which confirmed that, on average, people are playing games that are at least 6 years old. This is terrible for sales, or at least it looks terrible in the eyes of publishers.

>That's also one of the major reasons why console companies are against emulation. The last thing Nintendo wants is for hundreds of thousands or millions of people to still play Gen1-Gen5 Pokemon without buying whatever the new generation is. And judging from pirated downloads, discussions and videos, there's still a fuckton of people playing PKMN versions released between 1996 and 2005 instead of buying and playing the new games. From Nintendo's perspective that's a $5-$100 million loss in sales per PKMN generation. So, they're literally losing sales to their own abandoned product.
If they could just remotely kill that product (delete all old ROMs and cartridges), they believe it would bring them dozens if not hundreds of millions in profit.

I legitimately don’t understand how anyone could be against this. I don’t understand crab-bucket Americans at all
>t. American

>>713627124
thousands do so already.
every popular old game has countless free private servers

>>713627103
Because the rights still belong to them, it can't suddenly become public domain because a company decides to end support for it

>>713627124
Yes

>>713625678
>Your favorite developer
Are you 12? It doesn't matter who makes it, what matters is that it's good and GaaSlop is by definition shit.

>>713627101
not videogames? make an eu petition and discuss it on pol
i never say i don't care about it but it's off topic with the scope of this thread

>>713627224
>>713627248
ITT sub 80 IQ

>>713626782
>>713626863
...and why are people against it?

>>713627124
People are already doing this for hundreds of games across dozens of servers each. Yes, completely free.
And the idea is to leave customers with an option to self-host. You'd host the game yourself, for yourself.

Believe it or not, when people like something they'd want that something preserved even if they have to pay out of their own pocket..

>1000 signatures per hours
Maybe, we will make it before 31st july...

>>713627179
>it won't cost more money to do more work because... everything will magically be free somehow!

>>713620102
who was throwing away the plastic cap but keeping the bottle before this? It's just a useless meme feature nobody asked for that is also slightly annoying

>>713620302
when did Americans become so brain dead?

>>713626984
I don't play live service shit but unlike you, I'm not pretending it isn't happening and becoming more widespread every year. Taking accountability would be to take action and work towards regulating their functionality.

>>713627129
That is 90% of the video game consumer base and to pretend otherwise is to ignore reality. Voting with your wallet does not work. Putting it into legislation does.

>>713627124
never heard of private servers or something?
every MMO that went offline at some point got one

>>713627202
This. "Development cost" is a total misdirection/outright lie because you have to go out of your way to implement planned obsolescence. It costs MORE to make a game online only.

>>713627320
If you cared about it you would make one yourself. No need to be dishonest about your "social empathy".

>>713627202
and yet the only example SKG can come up with is The Crew, a game that already had zero players when it was killed

>nooo GAAS is built in with MTX
>nooo how can illiterate normalfags host the server
>nooo you can't just turn off multiplayer/online component
I don't know why all you people got worked up discussing this. Showing how Mega Man X Dive Offline on both mobile and PC became a thing should shut up any kind of opposition
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2183650/MEGA_MAN_X_DiVE_Offline/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.capcom.rxdoff

>AMERICAAMERICAMAEZRICAMUTTMTUTMUTT
youre really convincing me to vote for your cause, eurocucks

government is just a tool. what matters is who's using it. if you don't use it, someone else will

>>713627410
>Voting with your wallet does not work.
This is only a problem if you're a mongoloid.
>>713625929

>>713627331
Anon we don't need you announcing your IQ to the thread

>>713626764
There is a 100% chance -as in, a guarantee- that you would have already died if not for some sort of regulation. Seatbelts, speed limits, traffic lights, stop signs, food additives, electrical standards, warning signs, chemical ingredients in medicine and so on.
Why? Because you're not as smart as you think you are. You can't know EVERYTHING.
Sure you noticed that one proverbial hole in the ground, good job, but will you notice the next one on your own? Someone put a sign up there to tell you to be careful and you would have fallen into it head first.
You need people to help other people because even if you know there's a hole next turn, you could fall in at any point because of the human element. You drink a bit or forget due to problems at work. This doesn't make you or anyone less intelligent, it's in inevitable experience you have or will see sometime.

Also, how do you get people to be intelligent? By feeding them patterns that... other people placed there so people will notice and learn how to notice. Like an educational institution. I wonder if you can learn from a school entirely on your own. You know, without books and teachers, without relying on other people and their achievements AT ALL.

>>713627202
Why doesn’t Nintendo just sell you old games from their catalog like they used to instead of drip feeding you one or two games at a time via their horrible online service?
The average gamer is clueless and tech illiterate and doesn’t know what emulation is. By making their old library more inaccessible they probably push more people to emulate that otherwise never would have if anything.

>>713627503
Turd wordlers can't vote on it, you only need to take part in the shit-flinging for the topic to reach literate ears.

>>713627441
Where's your petition then?
Oh right, you don't care either

>>713627235
What the fuck does copyright law have to do with any of this anon. They are not taking ownership of the game, they're just playing it on their own servers. What retarded train of thought brought you here.

>>713616896 (OP)
>PAPA EU YOU ARE SO BASED LET ME SUCK YOUR DICK IN AN EXCHANGE TO PLAY MY GAMES

>>713627565
>his first example is slave belts
holy fuck you are a bootlicking cuck

>just vote for this commie shi' bruh youse need to stop dem chuds from killing games!

>>713618443

>>713627503
luckily your opinion on the matter is irrelevant lol

>>713627638
Obviously, I'm not the one claiming to have "social empathy". That's (You) being dishonest about it.

>>713627213
This thread is full of dishonest shitposters.
Pirat is mentally ill and crusaded against a movement that only exists in his head.
I don’t think anyone who isn’t a corporat shareholder has anything to lose from SKG passing.

>>713627664
Come on anon, this is way too obvious. Atleast make your bait post somewhat believable.

>>713627657
>Divide and Conquer: The concept primarily refers to the practice of creating divisions between opponents to prevent them from uniting against a common foe[...]

>>713624870
A shill is a paid advertiser. From the name of the old bong currency. Stop misusing words.

>>713627320
You made the argument
>social empathy is what distinguishes humans from pigs
and you do not care about the ongoing genocide

you do not practice what you preach

>>713627235
But there's no transfer of rights happening. What are you even confused about?

>>713627332
Because some furry Blizzard youtuber lied about what the initiative is all about. He said the companies would have to choose between
>being forced to keep providing the services forever
>releasing the source code
Among other lies and misrepresentations. His video is literally one of the top 3 videos about the topic with over a million views. And a bunch of kids and devs consider him intelligent and honest, so nobody did any other research.

>>713627789
>yes EU thank you for arresting me for my own good, I will wear this restraint from now on even though I don't want to

>>713627763
What if I like getting fucked in the ass by corporations and want every videogame to be a live service always online slopfest for which I pay 80 bucks minimum, that can be shut down any minute without warning and recourse?

>>713627921
Then at least you're a honest little cuck.

>>713627921
dishonest shitposter

>>713627789
Where's your petition for motorcyclists to be forced to wear belts

>>713627921
You have the option of paying $80 and not playing the game once it's no longer officially supported.

>>713627921
>want every videogame to be a live service always online slopfest for which I pay 80 bucks minimum
And then you motherfuckers complain about being misrepresented.
>>713625094

>>713627867
i care plenty about politics in the politics threads
i care about keeping things in their right topics
wether you agree or not does not really matter

Based!

>>713627101
Why not care about both?
What does that have to do with media law regulations?
Should all other facets of society have to stop when something bad happens in one facet?
we have departmentalized govs for a reason, and as a result both issues can be addressed in their own respective departments.

it'd be so fucking funny if the petition ended with 999.999 votes, it's a shame it's not even gonna be clost to that

>>713617707
Only live service games? I really can't give a shit about that. It is disposable content from the ground up.

>>713627763
>B-BUT IT WILL... UH... IT... UH... IT WILL CAUSE... UH... ITS GONNA.... UHHHHH... DO YOU LIKE YOUR NEW BOTTLECAPS ON COLA YOU FUCKING GOVERNMENT SHILL GLOWIE NIGGER KEK ZOOMER COMMIEFAGGOT?!!?!??!?!

I'm genuinely pro-killing games, but at least I will be intellectually honest about why: Being pro killing games is being pro property rights. The owner of an intellectual property is not selling the property but selling a license of access. A perpetual license of access with no expiration or ability to revoke access undermines the ownership of the property.

>>713628021
If proposed belts on motorcycles would save lives, I'd sign that in a heartbeat.

>Americans will, in the same breath, shitpost about “you will own nothing” and complain about governments regulating corporations
The American empire can’t fall soon enough. Go kick and scream in the mud with Israel

>>713628083
to be fair this is more about eceleb drama than politics as evidenced by all of the people calling their best efriend Ross by his first name and attacking his eceleb enemy Pirate even though nobody outside of their reddit/discord knows who he is

I dont really have a favorite in this drama, but pirate is pretty based for making normies cry

>>713620985
>elections
not for commissars

>>713627463
If you actually do any research you'll see that they've already documented hundreds of games which are dead and unplayable or at the risk of perma-death.

>>713628127
>Why not care about both?
one affects me directly and relates to something I care about
the other relates to the affairs of brown people on the opposite side of the globe

Reminder that creating a GaaS game is so expensive, and risky that traditional games will continue to exist. Sony tried to chase that dragon, and it has only led them to flop after flop. In the best cases, plain irrelevance.

>>713627921
realistically, there's nothing stopping you from withdrawing $80 from the bank right now and setting it on fire, it would give you the same feeling

>>713628193
And buying games being a license of access instead of ownership is good for me because..?

>>713628194
>putting government cameras in every room of your house will reduce domestic violence and child abuse, therefore we must do it!

>>713628273
Understandable, and respectable opinion.
I blame you not

>>713628194
That's not what I asked

>>713628231
cool story bro, but i will still try my hardest to see the petition pass to see ubisoft sued and bankrupt

>>713628193
unregulated trade is retarded, I hope you'll realize this soon or I hope you're in the 0.1% who are reaping the benefits of unregulated trade

Holy fuck it makes so much sense that everybody on /v/ against this likes that retard tranny wow retard. That guy looks like pre op tranny and is the definition of being in the valley of Dunning Kruger effect.
>>713627684
>bro you are a communist if you think being fucked by companies
Retard

>>713621290
imagine believing that
what a monstrous retard, what a ridiculous fool

>>713627407
I kept seeing loose bottle caps all the time. Maybe people dropped the cap and didn't care. Now it's getting recycled along bottles most of the time, and if you really dislike it, you can just rip it off.
It just objectively generates less plastic waste now.

>>713628425
Especially considering that Dustborn was another notorious flop.

>>713628083
>wether you agree or not does not really matter
lmao
>social empathy is what distinguishes humans from pigs

thank you for proving my point to the T

>>713628194
So you'd ban alcohol as well then. That would save way more lives.

>>713628396
Having learned about him after the hardcore wow thing he might be the most unlikable internet personality I’ve ever seen.
He’s not even funny to hatewatch like DSP.

>>713628473
thanks for the (you)s i really appreciate them

>>713628287
How do people keep getting tricked into these awful trend-chasing practices even now? In so many cases trend-chasing sharp-turns can simply be added as a new side-mode/playlist in a new installment instead of hogging the spotlight.

>>713628193
Not really.
If you write a book and I buy a copy of it from a nearby store, you'll still own the IP. You can write new books for your franchise or publish a revised version anytime, but the book I bought is mine. I don't own the IP but I own the copy of the book.
I can own that book until I dispose of it. You can't come into my home and take it away from me because I bought a copy from you.
Intellectiual property was not, and should not be about total control of all SOLD copies.

>>713628021
Couldn't that fuck them up more if they're stuck on the bike while it's flying and smashing into shit? It's not like a car where you're in a somewhat protective metal box when you crash.

>>713628259
>pirate is pretty based
Go back to sucking his nasal cock on discord anon. You are not fitting in.

>>713616896 (OP)
>EU
>UK
don't you guys have muslims and black to worry about instead of video game you fucking nerds? the whites over there are doomed to extinction at this rate.

>>713628673
So what you're saying is ban motorcycles.

>>713622837
Oh look it's another retard fighting with a strawman he created. Pat pat, anon, you're very smart. You defeated a non-existing enemy in your head.

>>713628673
Stop asking questions! Government regulations are always good even when they make no sense or are even plainly cause harm! You must be a shill!

>>713628259
>pirate
>based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ecAatdNojY

ngl just seeing shills mad just makes my resolve stronger

>>713628563
he speaks confidently and authoritatively on things even if he doesn't actually know, that's literally all you need to get a fanbase

>>713628758
I agree!
We should abolish copyright laws too!

>>713617512
>I slandered you and changed public opinion about your cause, but it was 10 months ago and you should let it go. Your people are harassing me and being mean to me!
I fucking hate this man

>>713628746
I'm not allied to Shocker.

>>713628664
The physical copy of your book is your license of access to the property. It has a natural built-in expiration because the book will physically degrade over time, and making physical duplicates has physical limitations. A digital copy of a game can have its expiration deferred however, meaning its license is perpetual in a way that a copy of a book is not. Digital duplication is also significantly easier. That is why there needs to be a built in equivalent of "go to someone's house and destroy their purchased book" for digital licenses, in order to offset this difference between physical licenses and digital licenses.

>>713628758
>no goym, its the other side that are shills, now just give up, do nothing and be excited for next product

>>713628841
Copyright laws encourage people to create. Regulations like SKG wants make game development more expensive and difficult.

>>713628984
>Copyright laws encourage people to create

>>713628984
>Copyright laws encourage people to create.
This is provably false

>>713619368
americucks can't even imagine fighting their corpo-overlords

>>713628564
np faggot
glad i proved your morals are a lie
and you do this for attention

get fucked nigger

>>713628984
>Copyright laws encourage people to create
Are you for real right now nigger?

>>713629049
>>713629053
Yes where would we be without the amazingly creative ideas like "Mickey Mouse... but he's violent and does drugs!"

>>713628446
If anything it's the opposite for me. I've seen more caps now than before, probably cause people get minorly annoyed when ripping the cap off and throw it on the floor. I have no idea how you can accidentally drop a normal cap and I don't see why somebody who is willing to litter the cap won't just litter the bottle too

>>713616896 (OP)
What's to stop companies from throwing in a "you agree were only on the hook for this product for one year" into the eula once this giant nothing burger rolls over?

Before any new thread is made, reminder that you shouldn't engage with shitposters.
I know and (you) know that those "people" aren't genuine and they just want to rile you up and demoralise you. It is a better use of your time and effort to answer people who are genuinely misinformed or interested in the initiative. Or reply to others who want to support it as well. Don't give shitposters even the satisfaction of acknowledgement.
Don't feed the trolls, as it was once the law.

>>713629217
Nothing. Nothing will actually change, but the mere possibility of change has the companies spooked.

>>713624735
Do you have any idea how to get Pewdiepie to make a video about this? Recently he made a video about switching to linux because they treat fheir customers better so he would be receptive fo this
I am serious how do you reach out to these e-celeb people?

>>713616896 (OP)
Will this really change anything? Companies will just be required to tell you the game is "limited time" when you buy and people will still buy anyway because they lack self control

>>713627478
Or AC Pocket Camp
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nintendo.zasa&hl=en
among others Android/iOS games
I guess they would've been harder to sell to mouthbreathers since it's a mobile game but this after-service model should work if even two big name Jap devs are adopting it

>>713617512
How is accursedfarms "unhinged"? He seemed levelheaded and calm to me. Piratesoftware speaks like a woman with this level of gaslighting.

>>713629217
The same reason calling gacha cancer "surprise mechanics" didn't fly.

>>713629217
illegal EULA terms are non-enforceable

>>713629294
I see. Well life goes on.

>>713629217
the fact that the likelihood of things improving is small will not make me give up

>>713628793
Holy shit what a faggot.

>>713629291
While you are amicably correct, to play devils advocate for a spell it is also correct that people feeding the trolls drives attention to the thread.
Which may, however unlikely, translate into additional eyes on the issue and leading to new votes.

>>713616896 (OP)
That's it? Even after Critisoi and Jeetahar
shilling ? I guess only mutts are watching those two after all.

Threadly reminder that all of this SKG shilling is over THE CREW
lol

>>713629324
He has a business email in his channel info. It's a crapshoot but it's an avenue.

>>713624598
Also, like a faggot he is, he takes all the criticism as "hate" and "brigading" and whatnot. You literally get banned for saying "mana gem" on his stream.

>>713628639
Out of touch executives don't know shit.
This example from Amazon Games, which was even worse than Sony in many ways:
>Frazzini’s lack of experience in video games showed during project review sessions, a standard industry ritual when the boss plays early prototypes and offers feedback. His comments were of the focus-group variety, recalls a former Amazon developer: “Why is it this color?” and “Seems fun. When will it be ready?” On a different occasion, says another developer, the team cringed as Frazzini struggled to differentiate between hyper-polished conceptual footage and live gameplay, a sign he didn’t understand the technology.
>Some meetings got sidetracked when Frazzini, armed with the latest VentureBeat article about whatever game was making the most money that month, demanded they chase a new trend, four developers say. The team wound up designing lesser versions of popular games, a desperate strategy laid out in a recent Wired article. Riot Games Inc.’s League of Legends inspired an Amazon project called Nova that was canned in 2017. Epic Games Inc.’s Fortnite led to another Amazon game, Intensity, canceled in 2019. Activision Blizzard Inc.’s Overwatch begot Amazon’s Crucible, which would suffer a similar fate.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-01-29/amazon-game-studios-struggles-to-find-a-hit

>>713629562
good evening sir
thanks for contributing

>>713617586
>is it some bongland shit again that doesn't concern Americhads?
It does indeed not concern Amerilards because you don't have rights.

>>713624692
>I could care less
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

>>713625929
The government will take away the rights of multinational corporations and you will be happy.

Totally organic vote counts BTW.

It is likely a bit too late; at best, we will reach 700,000. But could be wrong if more youtubers join in.

>>713629550
Europeans are a bunch of toothless cucks. You should look up how the UK is being destroyed by immigrants and how the Brits don't seem to even notice.

>>713629760
>STOP THE COUNT

>>713629217
Even if this were a simple sticker on the box saying: "this game will expire", do you have any idea how devastating it could be?
Normalfags would think twice, and that's not a good sign for companies when a mindless consumer stops to think.
Even the slightest hurdle may stop people from their purchase and companies know that or they'd put those stickers on the boxes right now. Even in one of the worst "win" scenarios, it would hurt the bottomline of greedy companies a lot.

>>713627009
That just means you have nothing left to loose.

>>713629795
He says while his "country" is getting dismantled by a geriatric literal retard fascist.

>>713627358
>randy pitchford won't be able to afford his seventh golden toilet
Oh no!

STOP VOTING
STOP VOTING
STOP VOTING
STOP VOTING

>>713630058
Nah.

>>713629795
>this petition will fail because euros are cucks, we should just not try at all instead
Based burger mentality. You can't be a cuck if you're proud and willing to be humiliated and disowned.

>>713625770
>accepting cookies
>in 2025
nigga stahp

>>713629786
It literally ends in a month. There's no fucking chance to double the vote count in this amount of time. Ross should've spoken up about this months ago.

>>713622381
You understand, anon. It's just a game of debasing themselves for attention, and I loathe attention whores.

>>713630308
Conversion therapy ban initiative doubled their votes in last few weeks because french celebs and politicians endorsed it

>>713629217
>Directive (EU) 2019/770
>Article 8
>In addition to complying with any subjective requirement for conformity, the digital content or digital service shall:
>(b) be of the quantity and possess the qualities and performance features, including in relation to functionality, compatibility, accessibility, continuity and security, normal for digital content or digital services of the same type and which the consumer may reasonably expect, given the nature of the digital content or digital service and taking into account any public statement made by or on behalf of the trader, or other persons in previous links of the chain of transactions, particularly in advertising or on labelling
that the game does not brick itself (as hypothetically enshrined in law) is a reasonable expectation of functionality, and i believe it would be difficult to argue that the eula would qualify as advertising or labeling

>>713630308
Could get 2.5mio votes if the current momentum holds, which is maybe too optimistic, but even more if it increases actually. It's not impossible, just very difficult.

>>713627124
>brainlet cannot comprehend pro (publico) bono
lule

>>713627224
>>713627341
>>713627419
Those "people" are illegally profiting off it.

>>713627419
funny thing is Pirate must know what a private server is and him pretending not to get it is extremely egregious