Thread 714316460

Genuinely what else were you supposed to do here aside from 1) summoning, 2) stunlocking the boss or 3) severely outleveling him?

>>714316460 (OP)
Stop rolling away
Use throwing knives to keep the stance meter from emptying (not that retards like you have any idea what that means)
Don't commit to a second attack when its unsafe like a retard

And most of all, git gud.

Try hitting the boss without getting hit yourself.

Of all fucking bosses to cry that are too hard, you went with Margit.

>>714316460 (OP)
My strat is to stay a distance away from him that's outside his normal attack range, baiting out attacks that have large recovery (like the one where he raises his weapon overhead and charges). After attacking, I generally aim to move away to avoid his fast close range attacks, and bait him again.

>>714316460 (OP)
you're meant to do weeping peninsula first anon, you're about lv 25-30 when you finish it depending on how much you do which is more than enough for Margit

>>714316793
>Use throwing knives to keep the stance meter from emptying
ah yes abuse the mechanic that not even the people that finished the game know about unless they read the wiki

>>714316827
maybe because margaret is a perfect example of everything that's wrong with elden ring boss design

>>714317548
Ok but why does the game take you to margit before weeping peninsula?
>so you can realize that this is an open world game you are supposed to take other routes
Ok but then why does 90% of the fanbase shit on you if you can't beat margit first try?

>>714316460 (OP)
Hit him when he stops trying to hit you
Or just parry

>>714317630
User error. There's nothing wrong with it. The problem is the person holding the controller.

>>714316460 (OP)
Option #4

>>714317630
I'm sorry you're dogshit at videogames anon

>first reply in the thread was option 2
>second valid reply was option 3
OP is actually BTFOing soulsfags.

out of all the shit bosses in ER this is the one people take issue with?

>>714317681
>Ok but then why does 90% of the fanbase shit on you if you can't beat margit first try?
They don't
They shit on people saying "THERE IS NOTHING I COULD HAVE DONE" when there clearly are a bunch of things you could have done
including actually finishing the rest of the world before him

usually the people who try him once then figure clearly they're not strong enough and go do other things don't complain about it here
the people who do, like you, are the retards who try beating him 20 times without improving or changing their strategy even once

>>714317719
>>714317763
we got the gen A nightreign squad over here
hey you can keep your nu-boss design no need to get so defensive

>>714316460 (OP)
you tried pressing the dodge button?

>>714316460 (OP)
learn the pattern and attack between attacks with either guard counter or roll attack

>>714317630
lmfao you're gonna fight him so many times you might as well start doing it with your eyes closed eventually, especially with nightreign

>>714318041
>bro just go grind other areas until you have summons and have leveled so much that he is trivial
wow great skill based game truly the best soulsborne

>>714318171
You forgot a few.

>>714316460 (OP)
Be patient. That's it. The bosses being boring is the hardest part of the game. You hope to end the fight a little sooner by risking another attack in the limited window for a punish, but you are wrong to do it. If you can't wait out the combos and only attack once during the few openings in the boss's moveset then you are better off playing a different game.

>>714317630
Margot is masterclass boss design purely because it makes cucks like you seethe

9/10 starting classes begin with a parry shield.

>>714318270
you're not grinding other areas, you're finishing other, easier areas first before doing the harder ones
that used to be basic level design in games

>>714318406
How does that even count as beating the game if you are just outscaling everything by grinding optional areas like you would a RPG?

>>714316460 (OP)
see that shield on your back that you are not using?
use it.

>>714318470
You're deliberately not reading the posts that are replying to you so I hope that anon has the common sense not to reply to you.

>>714318470
clearly considering you're incapable of beating Margit that area is not optional for "you"

All these webms are level 1 and weapon level 0, you don't need to go to weeping peninsula.

>>714318171
Not OP but I thought Guard Counter was the most retarded mechanic in the game. It seemed like a great addition when it was introduced in the tutorial, but it fell apart when you realize it requires trial and error to figure out when you can actually use it on a boss.

>>714317989
Whoever made the arena should be shot. This boss fight is literally against the camera.

>>714316460 (OP)
i love how clips like this show the player frantically rolling like a madman to dodge every single hit as if each one of them could end him
because if he DID get hit you'd see it does fucking chip damage and you can eat plenty of them before even needing to dip into your sippy stash of 5-6 full heals
he has like one, maybe two combos you probably want to avoid eating the entirety of but you can play like shit and do just fine

>>714316460 (OP)
you could try gittin' gud

>>714318709
>it requires trial and error to figure out when you can actually use it on a boss.
If you're a moron maybe.
>>714318763
He deliberately gets hit by the entire 4 part combo at the end without ever attempting to roll out of it. Its not hard to understand that its a bullshit video.

>>714316460 (OP)
Ducking in and out will trigger different combos so if you keep doing it Margit will keep attacking. Pick a spot and stick with it, either stick close to him or stay far away from him and bait easily-dodgeable big attacks to punish.

>>714318729
>don't lock on
>win
That was hard.

>>714318709
As opposed to trial and error learning when it's safe to roll?

>>714318354
great demonstration of what a waltz elden ring bosses actually are. if you panic and reflex roll like op then you did not understand the game - you base your approach to combat on a simpler game series (souls) which is obviously not going to work

>>714318907
>gets hit by the entire 4 part combo
shit you're right i didn't even bother watching the whole thing
it's the morgott one i'm thinking of with the no armor player
still worthless disingineous trash all around

>>714318907
There is zero way to tell if or when you can use a guard counter without being punished on your first time fighting a boss. You have to study the moves and try it out to see if it will even work or if they will cancel their animation to punish you.

>>714319127
Retards will never understand that Elden Ring is not Dark Souls and if you do nothing but roll away and press R1 you will lose.

>>714316793
>Able to dodge both hits of the summoned sword in the 1st combo
Is this light rolling? I can never fucking dodge that shit if I'm point blank and midrolling, unless I get lucky while rolling at an angle, or do the first roll really early.

>>714318709
What trial and error?
Literally just upgrade your shield, pump up that END and use the shield talisman

>>714319079
You can see the attack coming and roll when it would enter your hitbox. You can't see how the combo ends or what attack they will do next without seeing the future. Guard counters are a must more committed animation than a roll.

>>714317630
it's dogshit aggressive design, but still it's one of the coolest bosses in the game

>>714319279
this is how i played my third playthrough and it expanded my mind a lot in regards of how to think about encounters.
you actually ARE allowed to use all the tools you have in a game

>>714316460 (OP)
>3) severely outleveling him?

You don't "outlevel" him. He's not a level 1 boss. He's a much higher level boss that's supposed to stonewall you until you back off, get some better equipment, and return to be on a more level playing field.

That's part of the reason Elden Ring -and other Souls games- are great. You're not supposed to beat him the first time you encounter him, but if you're good you CAN. You get rewarded for your skill with early advancement.

>>714319217
>says this with a webm of one of the most basic enemies in the game

>>714319223
Its medium. You can dodge both, but the cane followup will hit you if you don't roll out of range. You can alternatively block the second or third hit though.

>>714318354
>using the elevation difference + stamp to duck under the swipe at 0:43
ludo
ER boss fights are so much fun to learn the ins and outs of.

>>714319127
>waltz
perfect way to describe these shitty webms you are posting because it's all choreographed desperately trying to make these terrbile enemies seem fun to fight

>>714319663
>Dealing 900+ damage in a single hit

Wow who knew overleveling made bosses easier?

>>714319279
>want to use milady sword & board
>r1 tracking is weirdly fucked
>guard counter takes ages because it's a 2-hit and has stagger level of 1, so it's much harder to fit in between enemy combos
>in fact the entire weapon has stagger 1 on its entire moveset, even 2h
>even scimitars and backhand blades have stagger level 2 on running r2 and jump r2
Lordsworn my beloved, I'm sorry I ever had eyes for any other.

>>714319610
>Morgott and Mohg are brothers
>both get rekt by ducking under their attacks
kino
>>714319828
>overleveling
>for the post game optional superboss
and
>900 damage jumping R2
>a lot of damage at the end of the game
Retard.

>>714319279
That webm only works because the player already knows exactly which combos are save to guard counter. This doesn't change the fact that you had to figure all that shit out
Took this nigga >>714319456 3 play throughs know when to use it.

Personally, I don't understand why the souls fanbase is so dedicated to the idea that you need to waste your time studying a boss before you are allowed to beat it. I feel like every boss should be possible to beat first try and I feel like while that is still technically possible(for a TAS) it isn't humanly feasible.

Bosses should be:
>Passive. Let players heal and use ranged attacks.
>Turn based. Always have an opening after every move.
>Simple. Remove useless and confusing features like parry, deflect, jump, block, and guard counter.

>>714319796
Literally this. Learning the boss used to be possible on your first attempts in prior games by creating space and observing. Now it's just twitch dodging which also got fucked by the overt use of off-timing attacks.

>>714318579
well unlucky for you since he replied 10 seconds later >>714318595

>>714316460 (OP)
>You're going to publish a game are tell me you don't have no 12-hour tutorials? No menu interruptions, quick saves, infinite resources, quick time events, slow time events, advancement markers - with or without the glowing arrows, or one single safe zone home hub!?

>>714318704
>throwing knives to abuse poise system
oh so you did option 2 alright thanks

still waiting for a single video of someone beating him fairly (at level 1, without abusing the stun system by throwing knives or doing jump attacks)

>>714319984
>>714320147
I beat every boss in the DLC within 5 tries, and that was with jumping and ducking over attacks, guard countering, and deflecting. Sounds like a skill issue.

Except Radahn though, that shit was fucked.

>>714319984
>This doesn't change the fact that you had to figure all that shit out
no not really, its more like personal constraints i put on myself to prove to a nonexistent audience that i am good at games by being able to dodge roll everything with the worst weapon class in the game (dual swords)
i regret it and its pathetic

>>714320264
ur so good at vidya anon :3

>>714319984
>That webm only works because the player already knows exactly which combos are save to guard counter.
No? It was my first attempt at Girella with a sword and board build, you don't need to know shit, literally just bank on END, upgrade your shield and use the shield talisman, you can defend against everything that isn't a grab.
>I feel like every boss should be possible to beat first try
That's cute and all, but to me, if I steamroll your game without any sort of opposition you've made a shit game.
Want a casual game, stick to the Souls trilogy, I'm not going back to mindless R1 spam.

Eldern trash and zoomers killed bloodborne and dark souls, that's crazy.

Once again, /v/ shitters prove they're even worse at video games than normalfags

>>714320486
Holy based. Good riddance it got rid of that trash.

>>714319057
>make a prominent mechanic a secret trap to make you lose more
this is actually true with elden ring

>>714320486
>Elden KING killed zoomborne and shit souls
Good, hopefully with the next game Miyazaki will get rid of more and more of the Souls baggage that he insists on keeping

>>714316793
>eats shit several times in that webm
>"git gud"
lmao

>>714320763
There's always some shitter in these threads trying to convince the world this combat isn't shit.

>>714320486
>trash kills garbage
Who cares when we have Khazan, Rise of Ronin, Nioh, and Lies of P which are infinitely better than the slop Fromshitware produces on a daily basis.

>>714316460 (OP)
Stop rolling away from combos you know you can punish

>get hit
>lmao you suck
>don't get hit
>wow you memorized his attacks
???

>>714317682
>when he stops trying to hit you
As you can see in the webm, this doesn't happen.

>>714317719
>There's nothing wrong with it
It's spastic garbage. Way too aggressive, to few openings.

Hit the boss until their hp bar reaches zero

>>714319456
The hate that shields get in these games is total nonsense. It seems like most people nowadays believe that using a shield is bad because it makes the game too easy, but that was never really the case. It's just that in older games, the 2H damage bonus you got was generally more useful than a shield if you were familiar with enemy movesets, unless you were going for parries. Shields weren't seen as a 'noob option' because they were OP, but rather, the exact opposite. It was a sign that a player didn't know enough about the game to know what was actually strong.

Over the course of the series, this has gradually become less true, and in ER, shields are really strong. Good players recognize that shields are no longer a sign of an inexperienced player, while cargo cultists continue to screech YDBTG at shield users.

>>714321031
So you admit you're dogshit at videogames?

>>714320964
As you can see in all of these webms you conveniently ignored to pamper your butthurt feelings, it does:
>>714316793
>>714318354
>>714318704

>>714321031
>to few openings
User error.

All bosses should be easy to beat on your first attempt at level 1 or the game is unfair.

This is why I stick to Team Ninja games.

>>714321102
Shields are only truly strong in ER if you build around them, compared to previous games where the lightest 100% block shield trivialises half the game even at +0 with base END.

>>714320264
Good for you, I mean that. Not even trying to be a dick, I'm happy you had fun. I don't even think ER is a bad game. I just don't find it fun.
But all that said 5 times isn't first try.

>>714320416
>It was my first attempt at Girella with a sword and board build
>first attempt at Girella with a sword and board
>my first attempt with a
So it wasn't your first time? Why are you replying like I was wrong?

>That's cute and all, but to me, if I steamroll your game without any sort of opposition you've made a shit game.
If your game requires you to die to a boss to learn all of it's moves then it is a game that was made to waste your time. I'm not in my early 20s anymore. I don't like games that waste my life by asking me to memorize the stupid delayed animations from a bunch of different bosses. If you like that it's cool, but don't act like your special because you like studying boss animations.

>Want a casual game,
And there it is.
>You didn't like it because it was too hard.
No, I didn't like it because it was too boring. In comparison, Sekiro doesn't let you out level or cheese the shit out of bosses with specific builds, but I liked it better because the deflection/stance system made those long ass animations from the bosses still move me closer to victory.

>>714319939
For me, it's using wing stance R2 to jump over Mohg's big sweeps.

>>714318354
Took damage, doesn't count.

>>714318398
The parry timing in ER is fucking retarded and extremely unintuitive.

>>714320264
>Next to no chip damage from blocking with a two-hander

What's going on here?

>>714320676
ZOMG....I'M LIKE....SO SKILLFUL..........ELDENGODS....

>>714321465
the greatsword of solitude has crazy high block stats for a weapon

>>714321415
Quite a few attacks are parryable only if you begin the parry before the enemy begins their attack which is a TERRIBLE design.

>>714321465
Deflect tear.

>>714320763
You don't have to be good to beat the bosses. He's still better than OP though.

>>714318763
If you take damage, your kill doesn't count.

>>714321294
>But all that said 5 times isn't first try.
I did actually beat a few first try, some second try. 5 is just the most I took on any boss. I brought it up because I think its completely reasonable to beat non-superbosses within 5 or so tries. And I think that's something anyone at all can do if they actually learn the fucking mechanics like I did.
>>714321465
Pic related. If you use a big twohanded weapon and don't block with it in ER you're retarded.

The only real problem of souls games is boss runbacks. There is no real reason not to include a bonfire/site of grace right outside the boss arena other than to pile on the punishment for failure and waste the players time by forcing them to replay through enemy infested areas.

Thankfully ER was much better with this than the earlier souls games.

>>714319217
>Elden Ring is not Dark Souls
That's the entire problem though, it should be.

>>714321294
>Why are you replying like I was wrong?
Because you are, how would I know which combo is "safe to block" if I never played around blocking to begin with?
>If your game requires you to die to a boss to learn all of it's moves then it is a game that was made to waste your time.
Good thing it doesn't then, and for the records, I'm 37, stop trying to find silly excuses.
>In comparison, Sekiro doesn't let you out level or cheese the shit out of bosses with specific builds
Umbrellas alone completely break most of Sekiro bosses, and all of them are built around the use of a specific prosthetic to hard counter them, even though again, umbrellas (and the bosses themselves) are so poorly designed they completely break the game.
Again, you just want a casual button masher, that's fine, but other people wanna have fun too, so don't cry about it like it's the game's fault, go play in your special need zone and leave people like me alone.

>>714321845
>Rest at Site of Grace
>Pass Time
>Night
>Cancel
>Leave
>Rest at Site of Grace
>Leave

>>714316460 (OP)
just parry him bro

https://files.catbox.moe/kb9qbf.mp4

>>714321768
Depends on the weapon, really. Most two handers have sub-70% phys damage reduction on block, which isn't nearly enough on its own to make blocking attacks even remotely worth it.

>>714320015
>Turn based. Always have an opening after every move.
This but unironically.

>>714322101
Guard counters are worth the chip damage.

>>714316460 (OP)
>3) severely outleveling him?

I genuinely believe this was the intention. The boss is literally and figuratively a gatekeeper. He's supposed to make you reconsider how you're playing since most people were going into this like they would Dark Souls. You're supposed to get hit like a truck, go back, and explore the world. You're supposed to be deterred from the typical boss rush style of gameplay and instead check out a few optional dungeons, kill some mini-bosses, get new gear, and actually engage with the new style of gameplay they created.

Obviously you can brute force it, learn to dodge properly, and kill him relatively easily. He's not the hardest boss out there by any means. But, for the average player, it's supposed to be the game telling you, "Hey, maybe try going and engaging with the open world a bit, then come back. That's why we made it open."

I'll never understand the frustration people had over Margit. Games do this all the time. They'll put a higher level/more difficult boss in an area, let you challenge it (even beat it), but it's supposed to show you that you can come back later to have a more fair fight. If you want to beat your head against a wall learning how to perfectly dodge everything, more power to you. But that's not the intention.

>>714317605
Retard. You can intuit that the stagger is a meter if you're not a complete fuckwit.

>>714321768
First playthrough vs. Malenia I used the greatsword and dealt with waterfowl by just blocking the first part of it. I don't remember how much chip damage it was, but it was completely tolerable. I think greatsword has something like 85% physical damage reduction.

>>714316460 (OP)
Git gud

>>714316460 (OP)
GET BEHIND HIM

>>714320890
Every single attack of every single enemy in every single game should be set up in such a way that you can avoid it the first time you see it by simply reacting well.

>>714317681
Margit is a filter and is there to teach you to fuck off and get stronger if you're having trouble defeating him. >>714318709
I genuinely love the way people out themselves as being bad at a game and then blaming the game for it. God forbid you upgrade your gear in an rpg and learn timing in an action game.

>>714322498
Its very tolerable. In fact it completely trivializes waterfowl. This weapon only has 68% physical reduction and a base Guard Boost of 44.

That said, you usually have enough time to switch to a shield, which is better. But in your case the Greatsword has the same Guard Boost as the fucking Brass Shield, the best medium shield in the game, so its not necessary.

>>714321117
It's only an opening if you take no damage while using it. If we use your retarded definition where trading hits is acceptable for some dumb reason, then yes there are many openings.

>>714316793
What the fuck is a stance meter?

>>714322356
>I'll never understand the frustration people had over Margit
Omce you realize that the majority of bitching about Elden Ring stems from a skill issue it all makes sense.
>player isn't very good
>player refuses to engage with game mechanics through ego, retardation, or both
>blames game and calls it poorly designed or shit
It's why I tend to just insult people nowadays since very few of them will admit it's ultimately a skill issue. The only boss that even I agree kinda fucking sucks is Consort Radahn. His second phase is obnoxious.

>>714320264
I dropped my level 1 playthrough at Radahn, I just didn't care enough to keep trying

>>714322947
Replay the tutorial and then look at 0:24 here: >>714318704

>>714322725
It's always amazing to me how many people just scream about how souls games are a roll fest and flat out refuse to ever even equip a shield. A great shield and a rapier will trivialize damn near the entire game.

>>714323141
Those same people cry and bitch and scream if you show them these videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDhoDThUIHc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkgpRrBXNiw

>>714322356
>You're supposed to get hit like a truck, go back, and explore the world.
It's the exact same trick they pulled in DS1 with the graveyard.
>go down path that seems the most obvious
>get shit slapped by skeletons
>rinse, lather, repeat until finding the less-obvious side path
>try the side path
>it's actually doable
>important lesson about the game taught in a way that respects the player's intelligence

>>714318354
>>714318704
Why do you keep throwing daggers that deal 35 damage?

>>714323292
You also need to watch 0:24 at >>714318704 and pay attention.

I'm too lazy to squish this webm any further, but I think this event was pretty silly.
https://files.catbox.moe/pn321o.webm

>>714319279
You don't even need to pump END, Scholar's Shield or Shield Grease alone make any greatshield and most medium shields viable without putting a level in it.
It looks weird to see guarding without a dodge first to activate Steel Guard now.

>>714316460 (OP)
> 3) severely outleveling him?
basically impossible unless you skip content and go to the higher level zones.
>>714321031
>to few openings.
wrong

>>714323292
An enemy's stance starts to recover after several seconds of not taking damage (I'm not sure what the exact number is). Any amount of damage, even a dinky throwing knife, resets the timer.

>>714323141
just about every mechanic in these games will trivialise it if you bother learning a bit and building for it, retards just refuse to have any strategy

>>714323415
How am I supposed to know that?

>>714316793
This is why people hate soulsfags, you think a new player knows what any of this means? Rollslop is fun but why do most of you guys think you're elite pro gamers for having encyclopedic knowledge of a game that's 99% artificial difficulty

>>714321102
>but that was never really the case.
i mean it is and was the case in past games. you can trivialize content with gear in any game. ever since dark souls 1 you could trivialize a lot of bosses with shields. the problem was you needed to upgrade the shield for shields to be good. "shields bad" was always gatekeepers trying to get shitters to learn to play the game before breaking it first or ignorant people trying shields without upgrading them and getting crushed

>>714323538
I have no problem teaching new players. I have no patience for retards arguing in bad faith however, like yourself and OP.

>>714323265
Yea, jumping is super good. I've never particularly taken advantage of crouching to avoid attacks though. I should practice it some. It's super annoying to see so many people refuse to engage with mechanics beyond a surface level and then blame the game for their shortcomings.

>>714318704
lol fail critical hit

>>714323621
I'm not arguing in bad faith I'm calling you an annoying faggot

>>714322636
That's why they made shields good in this game. Why aren't you blocking instead of panic rolling when you know that is punishable?

>>714316460 (OP)
Embarassing gameplay
Git gud

>>714316460 (OP)
>1) summoning, 2) stunlocking the boss or 3) severely outleveling him
I did the three

>>714316460 (OP)
Use the chain. The special item you can find in a nearby dungeon which stuns him and lets you do a ton of damage.

>>714323670
Its not specifically just pressing the crouch button (though that does work sometimes), but many weapon skills and even just basic weapon attacks can put you low posture to avoid certain attacks. Twinblades are great for Mohg as many of his attacks can be avoided just by charging an R2.

>>714319939
mohg is a great boss fight apart from the nihil bullshit. i still remember, he's the only boss that i retried till i could beat him without getting hit with a weapon that did less than 200 damage. learning his moveset and how to dodge many attacks without even needing to roll was fun. i dont understand why people would ruin the fun by using buffs, stuns, and other shit that trivializes the game. if you make the game brainless why even play?

>>714323538
Do public schools no longer teach students about context clues when reading? Should we assume every single person on the VIDEO GAME board is a complete fucking retard who has never touched a video game in their life?
>keep stance meter from depleting
>okay so there's a meter for stance
>stance probably relates to stagger or something similar
>emptying means it slowly goes down
>throwing knives will keep it from doing that
Genuinely how fucking dumb are you?

>>714323402
You got hit many times, none of that counts.

>>714323502
>notice that enemies get knocked down in a consistent number of hits
>notice that if an enemy goes a while without taking damage, it takes more hits to knock them
>notice that landing many consistently-paced hits over a long time period results in a knockdown
All things you can easily observe if you play the game and pay attention. I'll admit that taking it all the way to the throwing knife strat requires being a wiki warrior, but you can develop an intuition for the mechanic just by playing.

>>714317630
Getting obliterated by war cry or giant hunt?

>>714323984
or you played sekiro before and assume it mostly works the same way

>>714323141
Most players can only handle one defensive button and one attack button at a time and will try to reduce the game to that.

>>714323502
I honestly do think its something they could have been more clear on as its a really important mechanic. However if you happened to have played Sekiro you have absolutely no excuse, as its literally the exact same mechanic. Throwing knives are basically just shuriken.

>>714324192
these players would manage to have trouble with balan wonderworld

Throwing knives to maintain poise is pointless. Just means you aren't attacking often enough.

>>714323947
>stance probably relates to stagger or something similar
why the fuck didn't they just keep it named poise
a stance meter going down sounds more like a boss losing a temporary power up he gave himself

>>714324425
to be pedantic, they're closely related but different concepts that have different rules for you, NPCs and non-NPC enemies

>>714323859
Tons of people still refuse to understand how important baked in properties in weapon movesets (and spells) are.
Simply knowing how to low profile with R2s, ashes of war or even certain spells makes an enormous difference in efficiency, and is another reason why ER combat is a notch above every previous FROM ARPG, it has enormous variety in terms of approaches and options, it's certainly not perfect but it's above and beyond everything else they've done so far and I hope they will push this further with their following games so the combat becomes more and more focused on actual trades.

>>714323984
There's nothing "intuitive" about using a throwing dagger to reset a nebulous, invisible timer on a nebulous, invisible stagger bar that will have wildly different thresholds to begin with, all of which will have completely different feedback depending on which weapon, ashes or general strategy you might be utilising.

This isn't something you can be expected to "figure out" organically.

>>714324395
That sounds like something you should address to the OP.
>>714324425
You're confused. Poise IS the stat that influences stance, and that was a change they made. For example Margit has 80 poise, so you have to do 80 points of stance damage to break his stance. Poise was originally the stat that determined if an enemy got hitstunned, but they changed that to something else entirely for ER.

>>714324395
I generally agree but it's the safer way to maintain your buildup.

>>714316460 (OP)
>>714316793
>>714323538
This boss is piss easy, you just roll gud through everything, it's not even that hard. Once you're gud you can start doing stuff like jumping over attacks or even just walking around bosses.
but this thread is obv. bait anyway as an excuse to have a regular ER thread, so have your (You)

>>714324617
The game teaches you about staggers. If you're unable to intuit that it's on a meter that decays after playing the game for a while it's probably because you're stupid.

>>714316460 (OP)
don't play shit games made for brainrotted streamers

>>714316460 (OP)
Git gud

>>714323358
>if I die even once the game is bad
Why are you gay?

>>714324840
>Once you're gud you can start doing stuff like jumping over attacks
Or you could just do that from the start. I have no idea why you people think pressing the jump button to react to an attack is somehow much harder to do than pressing the roll button to react to it, especially when its far more generous.
>but you don't know which attacks you can jump!
You see it once, you jump it the second time. Its not hard.

>>714323947
>"Soulsfags act like elitists towards new players"
>"Oh yeah? well what if I do it more?"
And yeah you probably should assume that the people here are complete fucking retards, are you new?

>>714324617
Sure, yeah, taking it all the way to throwing knives does take pretty precise understanding of exactly how the mechanic works, and it's hard to get that precise knowledge of the mechanic without looking it up. I'd even go as far as to say that throwing knives used in this way are minor cheese. However, the broad strokes of the game mechanic are clearly communicated by the game if you're observant. The general gist of it is that if you want to knock an enemy down, you want to hit them consistently, and hit them hard when possible. That understanding is enough to get you through the game, and it's easily observable through just playing.

>>714324694
>Margit has 80 poise
so it's a poise meter and you call it "stance" to intentionally confuse people??

>>714324236
That's horseshit but thankfully unnecessary

>>714325103
I don't call it stance. Elden Ring does. Both of those terms are straight from the game. Maybe you should try playing it before you open your mouth and criticize people, it'll help you not look stupid in the future.

>>714319279
>Using Messmer's shield vs Rellana
Bro...

Elden Ring is so bad, man. The scale and the vistas are amazing but holy shit everything else is like pure fucking cancer.

They were phoning it in with the story/lore and characters, the Zanzibart factor is insane, the amount of copy pasting is atrocious, the catacombs and mines and 70% of the open world are all worthless filler, the NPC quests are all over the place.
The bosses all have non-stop 500 hit combos with AOE attacks and delayed bullshit sprinkled in there, they can turn on a dime in a split second and all behave like your character isn't tied to rigid Souls mechanics.
If you're a completionist the shitty platforming is what's going to cause 80% of your deaths. No idea why they shoehorn that garbage in the game. No one finds it fun.
The camera is still fucking worthless against giant enemies, which, surprise surprise, make up a lot of the more difficult ones.

One of their weakest efforts for sure, I think only DS2 is worse from their action RPGs.

>>714316793
I love throwing knives so much.
They've saved me from choking so many times. My actual best friend in the game.

>>714316793
fucking based

>>714321985
>how would I know which combo is "safe to block" if I never played around blocking
>Good thing it doesn't then,
These two statements are contradictory. You had to "play around"(read as trial and error) with blocking before you could use it properly in boss fights. You had to test the waters to find out if it was okay to use it and got punished.

Holy shit. I never thought I would see the day. Elden Ladies are actually so defensive that they shit on sekiro now. Sekiro has better bosses and a more consistent difficulty curve than ER because it isn't an RPG.

>you just want a casual button masher
Sekiro isn't a "casual button masher" faggot

>other people wanna have fun too, so don't cry about it like it's the game's fault
You aren't saying the game is fun for you. You are saying the game is objectively well made[it isn't]. Making objective statements like that is a valid opening for criticism. You don't get to say the game is great and anyone that doesn't like it is wrong and bad at games. Quit being such a faggot.

>go play in your special need zone and leave people like me alone.
You're the dumb nigger that entered a thread criticizing a game you liked, and now you say I need to leave you alone? Why don't you fuck off to another thread if you are going to get pissy people disagree with you. You don't get to tell people to "leave you alone" when you are the one acting like an aggressive nigger.

>>714317989
(because shitters never made it past him)

>>714325285
Not my problem

>>714319984
Look, the whole souls autism is a console peasant ego thing. You see, with the limitations of consoles, you can't really have games with super-high skill ceiling. Just look what happens when someone creates crossplay, console gamers get absolutely murdered every single time, often even if the developers give them literal cheats to even the playing field. So Myazaki and co made the Soulsborne games. They took the clunkyness of console controls, cranked it up to 11, and made it the core design element. Around this they built trial and error memory games. Sprinkle in some extra jank like nonsense hitboxes and you got the recipe for the entire series. These games, which would be piss easy, if either the controls were not atrocious garbage, or if they were not trial and error memory games, are a source of pride for the console peasants. Finally, they too, can say that they beat an actually difficult game! And if you dare to point out that the games are in fact all just jank and trial and error, the console peasants will attack you like rabid dogs because you attack a cornerstone of their sense of worth as gamers.

>>714325103
>>714324425
Poise is different.
Poise is what lets you tank a hit as you're doing an attack without stumbling.
Stance for NPCs is what you need to deplete that lets you land a critical hit.

>>714316460 (OP)
Same thing with any challenging action game. Git gud. Game wasn't really that hard, just exposed shitters, like every decent souls game does.

>>714325496
They're just a bad company with shit practices. Shit like this gets astroturffed to death by paid shills.

>>714316460 (OP)
>>714316793
My problem with Souls isn't that it's artificially difficult. My problem is that it's goddamn fucking boring to watch bosses do cool flips and shit while I have to dodge all of it and only get one hit in every fucking 20 of their flips and tricks. -I- want to do the cool fucking flips and shit, dammit.

>>714316460 (OP)
Everyone easily one shots him on subsequent playthroughs.

>>714325720
they went full retard with the dual names
god forbid I mistake the exact same mechanic that works the exact same way for both of us because one of us is the player and the other isn't
it should be fucking obvious from the fact that again, one of us is the player and the other fucking isn't. I'm not going to use the boss' poise to tank hits am I, stupid fucking nippon monkeys

>>714322653
Because it's a shitty action game. Matthew was right and from trannies haven't stopped seething since.

>>714323538
>you think a new player knows what any of this means
westoids didn't even know what iframes were when Dark souls 1 came out because all they played were diabloclones where you chugged potions like water
your retardation isn't the fault of the game

>>714318729
These guys you just hug their side somehow and just keep button mashing and rolling periodically, half their attacks are going to whiff totally because they swing randomly and most are actually fairly weak so you can out DPS them.

>>714325496
You Sekiro fags are something else.

>>714325615
Not really, no
>You had to "play around"(read as trial and error) with blocking before you could use it properly in boss fights.
>You had to test the waters to find out if it was okay to use it and got punished.
Again, no.
>Sekiro has better bosses
No.
>and a more consistent difficulty curve than ER
No, Sekiro's "difficulty curve" is all over the place because the game is largely nonlinear on top of having the same variable setups as an ARPG, even if they're nowhere as good or deep mechanically.
>Sekiro isn't a "casual button masher" faggot
It absolutely is, not sorry if that offends your feeble pride as a gaymer but Sekiro is a casual game by design, much like ER to be fair.
>You are saying the game is objectively well made
No, I'm not saying any of that, you're the one who's insists on doing the opposite though.
>You don't get to say the game is great and anyone that doesn't like it is wrong and bad at games
I do though, just like you get to say the game is bad and anyone who likes it is wrong and has bad taste, get off that high horse of your and have some decency, faggot.

Fromshitware never made a good game.

>>714320660
>this is actually true with elden ring
And with like half of the bosses in Dark Souls III.

>>714325926
It matters for them, because you can break poise without triggering a stance break with heavy weapons.
Sword Girl bosses like Malenia and Rellana are good examples of this.

>>714320863
I wanted bloodborne 2 fuck you and your open worlds

>>714325829
Skill issue. First time I went up against Morgot, this is exactly how I felt. Now I've played through the game a bunch of times, and gotten summoned for that fight a whole bunch more. Most of the time I'm attacking him as much as he's attacking me at this point.
It's a big part of why I love the game so much. Even though I've seen it all a bunch of times, it still feels like there's ways to still git gud and rewards for doing so.

>>714325829
SKILL FUCKING ISSUE

>>714326291
>I wanted Slopborne 2
Who fucking cares when Lies of P made that irrelevant.

>>714326304
Even if you're hitting him just as much, it's still just rolling around and poking him. Plus yeah, you said yourself you're getting summoned for it, so you're probably able to get more hits in because his aggro is split.

skill issue
filtered
git gud
/based
/tpbp
/thread

>>714319562
Greater Crucible Knights are each fucking Artorius of the Abyss tier.
Absolute bastards.

>>714326472
He's got plenty of windows where you can land meaty charged R2's and jump attacks.
I put down my summon sign a lot, but I've never summoned a player to my game and after my second playthrough I instituted a no spirit ashes rule. My approach doesn't change much for the pure 1v1.

>>714326249
It doesn't need to be a heavy weapon for Malenia, even claw R1s work. But as far as "real" bosses go that's unique to her, Rellana will take a colossal charge R2 to the face without batting an eye.

>>714319279
>getting in a second square off before the crit
Orgasmic.

>>714324867
>>714325078
Why do people work so hard to defend shitty game design. Just admit that it's fucking stupid they didn't just port the same fucking stagger bar to the HUD that Sekiro had.

>>714326180
>get off that high horse of your and have some decency, faggot.
I find you lack of self awareness hilarious.

ER is a poorly designed game. You can like it. You can say it's fun. But you are objectively wrong when you say it is well designed. It isn't.
>Shit hitboxes
>Unexplained mechanics that are only understood due to players reading the game's files
>Bosses made specifically to catch players out and kill them on the first try
The game is trying way to hard to be "le difficult" for it's own good.
>It absolutely is, not sorry if that offends your feeble pride as a gaymer but Sekiro is a casual game by design, much like ER to be fair.
What makes a game a "casual button masher then"? And why have you contradicted yourself again by saying ER is one when previously you said it wasn't because it "gave you opposition" or whatever pithy retarded shit you said.

>>714325993
No Matthew, you were not right. The only thing you were successful at is exposing yourself for how shit at games you are. You were filtered.

>>714326918
>good game design, according to this anon

>>714327180
Nice strawman ya fuckin retard

>>714327180
Not that anon but can you stop being retarded (in case you aren't just false flagging).

>>714327157
seeth more trooner

>>714326918
No, I don't want or need a meter in the HUD. But I can concede that they should have been a little clearer on how the mechanic worked for people who never played Sekiro. Literally just state it in the tutorial, that's it.

>>714327157
Who the fuck is Matthew anyway?

>>714327293
Elden Ring won and your shitty game is going to flop like the garbage it is.
>>714327378
E-celeb who got filtered by Elden Ring and comes here to shill himself and his garbage videos.

>>714323984
I understand that melee attacks deal stagger and heavier melee attacks deal more stagger but why would a small throwing knife do any meaningful amount of stagger?

Between all these too much HUD VS too little HUD autism let me just interject that if the game was not C-tier, the information could be conveyed to the player without adding more HUD elements, for example, by making the boss use sloppier and sloppier animations and make various sound cues as it gets closer to breaking.

>>714327582
It doesn't, it only does a single point of poise damage. Now reread the second line of that anon's post.

>>714327063
>I find you lack of self awareness hilarious.
And you say this while still insisting on putting words in my mouth?
Again son, get off that high horse, you're beyond pathetic, you're literally malding because your peacock wheel doesn't work on me
>Shit hitboxes
The best in FROM's games so far, Sekiro is worse
>Unexplained mechanics that are only understood due to players reading the game's files
Sekiro also has this in spades but apparently that's good if Sekiro does this.
>Bosses made specifically to catch players out and kill them on the first try
Again, Sekiro does this and is even more guilty than ER on this, but it's ok if it's Sekiro that does this, amirite?
>What makes a game a "casual button masher then"?
A game where a single tool completely breaks the game by accident, for instance, a game where the mechanics are so barren and shallow you have no variety in terms of approaches, a game that is excessively focused on a single gimmick to the point the rest of the mechanical layers aren't even finished, Sekiro is a perfect example of that.
>And why have you contradicted yourself again by saying ER is one
Never said that, again, stop trying to put words in my mouth, you're not intelligent enough for simple videogames so don't overestimate your mental capacities to the point you think you can weasel your way out of an internet argument, you're nowhere as skilled with sophistry as you think you are, learn how to be humble first.

Souls games are only enjoyable for those who only care about status. They're shallow experiences with nothing to other.

Are souls games the only RPG where you're chastised online for taking advantage of the games systems? It's bizarre.

>>714317681
>Ok but then why does 90% of the fanbase shit on you if you can't beat margit first try?
Thats not a thing. Though I agree than general is bizarrely autistic and toxic.

>>714327732
That's fair, I'd definitely take that over adding it to the HUD.

>>714327582
Refer to my other post: >>714325078
Understanding it enough to know the throwing knife trick is absolutely not necessary to beat the game. Understanding it well enough to know to hit often and hit hard is easily obtainable by playing and observing. A tutorial explaining exactly how it works or a meter on the HUD showing an enemy's stance would be completely unnecessary clutter, because all you really need is the general idea.

>>714327836
Git gud

>>714327840
>Are souls games the only RPG where you're chastised online for taking advantage of the games systems?
Yes but only by the people who hate the game.

>>714316460 (OP)
kill him with reduvia

>>714327840
only if you cry about the game and don't use said mechanics

Elden ring bosses are pretty generous for the most part with exceptions (i hate malekith and dlc radahn). You can fit in a fully charged R2 for certain attacks for pretty much every boss in the game including colossals. You get so much HP and heals in this game that its beneficial for strength builds to just unga and poise through the end of strings and other small attacks.
I just wonder if it would be beneficial to show a stagger bar than the guess work of assuming your next heavy is a stagger.

>>714328398
if you keep using the same weapon and somewhat understand poise you quickly get a feel of how many CR2 it takes

>>714328398
>malekith
>stand underneath him and all of his attacks miss and then he dies in 30 seconds: the boss

>>714325078
so just hit it till it dies then

>>714328523
It would probably have done the same if you tried to attack. Stare at the player menacingly then smash the player with an input read if they fall for it, a Fromsoft classic.

>>714327765
>be a big badass boss
>can tank heavy hits from big weapons without staggering
>a throwing knife stops you from regaining your balance as much as a hit from 2h weapon
It's things like these that don't really make sense

>>714328768
Bosses do not input read melee attacks in ER. That's a shazamcord psyop that only retards fell for.

>>714316460 (OP)
bitch just learn to fucking parry

>>714316460 (OP)
git gud

>>714328891
>watch video of the boss CLEARLY waiting for the player to lock themselves in an animation before immediately smacking them
>as it happens with a variety of enemies time to time in all previous From titles as well
>AHCHUALLY the bosses do not input read, we just KNOW somehow they don't even though we see it happen, ok?!
Fromdrones and soulsimps, everyone.

>>714316460 (OP)
you were supposed to grind and brute force him, just like every other boss in the game lol

>>714329332
I see the shazamcord is still alive after all these years, sad.

yeah bro look at all this input reading fr fr

>>714316460 (OP)
Beat him first try. Easy af. git gud my guy

>>714328891
I've got over 700 hours in the game, and there's definitely some amount of input reading. The obvious example is the sword n shield crucible knights immediately moving in to the poke if you try to take a sippy while they're not locked in another animation. Another one I noticed recently is that there's quite a few enemies, like the zamor guys for example, that will backstep the moment you start charging an R2.
I want to add, though, that I think it's fine, actually. Enemies punishing specific crutches, like rolling away to take a sippy, actually makes the game better. With the crucible knights, it teaches an important lesson about finding proper windows for things like sipping instead of just panic defaulting to the same action every time you take damage.

>>714329715
>I've got over 700 hours in the game, and there's definitely some amount of input reading.
I didn't say there wasn't input reading. You should reread my post carefully.

>>714320863
>lies of p
Actual trash.
Basically turn based with how little the player can do until its their turn.

>>714316460 (OP)
You don't want to hear the answer.

>>714316460 (OP)
go and naturally level while finding better equipment, or be a retard and bruteforce it grinding against an obvious wall without changing anything about the way you play or approach a challenge.

>>714320246
Using Item and attack is abusing system? You fool

the main thing i'm getting from this argument is that the game is bad if you play like a retard, and worse if you play correctly

>>714330354
Nah its fun.

>>714330483
>this and the other e-peen measuring webms posted here are totally representative of the actual gameplay and not staged videos that are the results of dozens of takes

>>714331167
Correct.

>>714330483
I genuinely never knew those stomps could be dealt with by jumping and ive 100% the game and done multiple playthroughs.

>>714316460 (OP)
I dunno, i'm an exploration chad and don't treat Dark Souls as a action game. I think they all have shallow and easy action combat. It's only good as an adventure game. So naturally, I explored and over-leveled everything in the game and did everything in my first playthrough.

>>714325829
You can do all the cool moves that's what the zillion ashes of war are for. You can do sekiro deflects, you have bloodborne rally, you have access to the best dodge moves in the series, you can even teleport. If all you can do is roll and get a measly r1 punish it's your inability to take advantage of the tools the game has.

>>714324425
scrapped sekiro dlc assets prease understand

>>714331535
>that's what the zillion ashes of war are for
>can only have 1 AoW available at a time
I maintain the fucking Holy-Y/Triangle shortcut menu should've let you slam on AoWs there so you could have some actual combat variety.

>>714331167
Jumping those attacks is easier than parrying and rolling them.

>>714332936
You can have 6 actually. There's 6 weapon slots.

>>714332936
>Can soft swap between 6 weapons
>Can carry every single weapon in the game and swap at any time even during combat
>No I think I will handicap myself for no good reason

>>714332936
That's what your ten spell slots are for. Even melee builds ought to have a few points in int, faith, or both for unique weapons and low-requirement spells. A strength build that doesn't have 12-15 faith is just straight-up gimping itself for no reason.

>>714333637
This was my souls turning piont. 15 faith for the start makes all the games easy mode.

>>714317859
It's almost like you're meant to engage with the game beyond just smashing your head against a wall. Look IMO elden ring does have problems related to difficulty and bullshit bosses and encounters, but the real biggest problem by far actually has nothing to do with the game and instead is the perception that the game is first and foremost about the difficulty, it's not. Elden ring is not a deep trial you must overcome and there's nothing to prove here, you are playing a video game to have fun. Stop smashing your forehead to paste and go adventure around a bit, level up, find new weapons or spells or ashes of war or whatever else, get more flasks. Elden ring can be very fun if you stop treating it like an irl life or death trial you need to overcome.