>best companion

>Sushi

She looks hotter now

this redesign will somehow get whatever's left of the population that has autism but DIDN'T play deltarune to actually play it. it's practically fool-proof

>>717111035
GET OUT

>>717110924 (OP)
Hi Asriel

I fucking hate Chris so much it's unreal
BRING ME MY VESSEL

>>717111035
t. Asriel

>FRIEND is going to get turned into a joke/red heiring
>The entire fandom will collectively suck Toby's cock and gaslight you into thinking you're retarded for ever thinking it would be something serious

I don’t know how to put it but Toby, Undertale, and Deltarune come off as super judgmental towards the player, and not even in a justified way, but in “a 5’ 6” homestuck fan who’s never read a book explaining to me why I’m a bad person actually” kind of way.

spongebob patrick squidward mr krabs...
spongebob patrick squidward mr krabs...
spongebob patrick squidward mr krabs...
spongebob patrick squidward mr krabs...
spongebob patrick squidward mr krabs...
spongebob patrick squidward mr krabs...
spongebob *drums* patrick squidward mr krabs spongebob patrick squidward mr kra

>>717111479
Oh, it's gonna be another thread where sociopaths are getting offended by NPCs being sad because their friends died.

>>717111479
This fanbase literally accepts anything Toby throws at them and gaslight itself into liking it. Just look at Jockington and Catti being confirmed irrelevant and the sheer cope that created.

>>717112078
We get annoyed because the author and his fans try to force this retarded idea that playing the evil route in a game is evil IRL

>>717112520
>the author
Did he, though?

>>717112520
No, they don't. That's something you believe because you have a massive chip on your shoulder so you get asshurt that an in-game Npc doesn't say "thank you" when you kill them

>>717112520
>Toby goes off the record to say he doesn't give a shit if you play his evil route because it's just a game
>Two of the main characters (Susie and Noelle) bonded over playing the evil route in a game they both played
Anon...I don't think the game developer is the problem here......

>>717112708
>>717112843
No one gets annoyed at Toriel or Undyne calling you evil, they get annoyed at Flowey and Sans.

le game called me evil

>>717112520
Toby doesn't. The fans do, however. Plenty.

>>717113047
>Flowey, the psychotic time warper that probably did worse shit than you if you didn't commit to a genocide route
>Sans, who ultimately realizes that you're not even doing this out of genuine malice and you're just doing it to see what happens
Yeah man, I felt so attacked by them. Toby needs to pay for my therapist's bills.

>grow up with real RPGs where the evil route lets you be the most despicable bastard imaginable with every character hating your guts
>Undertale has people shitting their pants because one character doesn't jerk you off when you're trying to murder everyone
I fucking hate zoomers, a complete lost generation, we should just purge them all and start over from scratch.
None of them would survive playing KOTOR 1, let alone an actually well-written RPG.

The characters in Deltarune exhibit far more apparent flaws than in Undertale. Or perhaps they’re made more "human," but in any case, they’re clearly not just virtuous. Just look at Toriel, King and Queen, or even Noelle, Susie, and Ralsei. Worse still, Kris is portrayed in a very ambiguous light (the Sword Route gives us plenty to analyze on that front).
This isn’t incidental, Toby likely made this choice to enable more narratively compelling alternatives. For me, the Weird Route is infinitely more interesting than the Genocide Route, which is highly caricatured. Given that, I don’t understand why some players insist on copying and pasting concepts from Undertale onto Deltarune. I think it’s deliberate, they cling to a comforting fiction.

>>717113818
A lot of people see Deltarune as a sequel of sorts to Undertale. It's not really their fault, given it's officially marketed as "Undertale's parallel story" and chooses to reuse most of the same concepts, but I think if more people understood what led Toby to develop Undertale first, then Deltarune, they'd stop trying to treat Deltarune as Undertale 2.

>>717114024
This is such a retarded take
"The place where it rained", btw. You fat fucking imbecile.

>UNDERTALE
>TALEUNDER
>DERUNTALE
>DELTARUNE

>>717113374
The worst thing is that Flowey does jerk you off if you do genocide.

>>717113818
>I don’t understand why some players insist on copying and pasting concepts from Undertale onto Deltarune
Because Undertale is a very short game with very low production value and it's easy 90% of the time.
All I wanted was for DR to be UT but bigger, better and harder.

>>717114118
Yes, the one character alluded heavily in Undertale to not be originally from Undertale is connected to the game that was conceptualised first. This has nothing to do with the sequel argument.

I've seen some theorizing about human-monster crossbreeding in these thread, and it aroused a question:
Is monster interbreeding even possible?
Noelle, a deer monster, has two deer monster parents;
Goat monster has goat parents
Turtle monster has a turtle father;
Cat family, cat parents
Snowdrake monster, snowdrake parents etc.
Has Tobias "darknies were made to serve lightners" Fox created an anti-racemixing fantasy?

>>717113374
for the last fucking time
it's not the characters being mad at you
it's the metatext trying to make some point about how playing evil isn't actually worth it or some shit

>>717114394
>"playing evil isn't actually worth it or some shit"
>some of the best content is locked behind doing it
I fail to see your logic

>>717114394
i think he was agreeing with you anon-kun, he was expressing disdain at zoomers feeling personally attacked by a game's characters responding negatively to evil route shenanigans

>perfume seller
>Sorry, my sweat is not for sale.

>>717111294
>>717111545
You are soooooo quirky XD

>>717114118
What >>717114286 said. I'm not denying that the Sans in Deltarune has some involvement in Undertale. That much is obvious and I can't fucking wait to see how Toby delivers on that front.
I was just agreeing that a lot of people think Deltarune's just going to be Undertale's themes repackaged when it's clearly trying to tell its own story.

>>717114394
>metatext

one of the few games that does this is spec ops the line, that's really about metatext trying to guilt trip you

in undertale you have characters reacting to you destroying their world. in undertale you have a clear choice to have a super happy true ending

you have to get out of your fucking way to do genocide, which, as Sans and Flowey point out, they tell you that you are doing this because you are either bored or curious

what do you achieve in genocide?

nothing

>>717110924 (OP)
*drops her in a pit*

play the halloween hack you retards

can't wait until Dess is revealed and she looks even more Aryan than her mother

>>717114938
>preppy WASP Dess

>>717110924 (OP)
DROP the LIZARD in the PIT to JUMP HIGH

>>717114791
>I was just agreeing that a lot of people think Deltarune's just going to be Undertale's themes repackaged when it's clearly trying to tell its own story.
That's also the game's fault, such as keeping the SPARING versus FIGHTING theme, together with Deltarune mirroring Undertale at every turn (Reverse Undertale theory) down to their names being anagrams. Deltarune is a game super close to Undertale.

>>717115047
>>717112078
>>717111136
Fuck, I missed three times with my replies in this thread already. What is wrong with me?

>>717114938
While you're at it, play Ribbit Mod

>>717115205
TWO
NOTHING WRONG WITH ME

>>717114867
>what do you achieve in genocide?
a really fun creepypasta style alternate story and the hardest boss battles in the game

>>717114938
Anons need to play Earthbound more than the Halloween Hack. Toby's not the same person he was in his teens, and it makes more sense to play the game where he seemed to get his inspiration for most of the meta shit in Undertale/Deltarune.

Commonly espoused theory but It won't be asgore's jealousy in chapter 5.
It'll be noelle
or not, it's very likely the flower dark world will be in the morning while the festival is at night

>>717114938
that hack is fucking impossible, I can't make any progress

>>717115302
>Toby's not the same person he was in his teens
Yes he is. He's still a big gay faggot who loves Japan and irony.

>>717114394
people love attaching this moral of condemnation to the genocide route but i'm pretty sure it's about how fickle engagement / immersion and the role of a "player" is. we can go from saving the world and giving all of these characters a happy ending to eradicating them and it all means the same thing in the end, they exist as entertainment and depending on how engaged with the world and its characters you are that's either enough for the player to leave satisfied or it's expendable, something to be skipped past in search of more novelty before you throw it away. so in the end it's less about morality and more about how human nature is funny when it comes to videogames and their worlds. i think the fact that some people get really upset when you kill the characters in undertale or deltarune reinforces that sentiment

>>717110924 (OP)
>>717111136
Why did I never realize shes literally just a Yoshi with a wig on? What the fuuuuuuuuck

>>717115369
>nobody ever changes as they grow up because they don't become different people entirely

>>717113374
People have lost the ability to actually enjoy being an evil piece of shit in a game. Some of my favourite endings in vidya period are EVIL endings where you KILL people for FUN

>>717115302
>Toby's not the same person he was in his teens
no one really changes who they are deep down, and the new chapters just proved that

>>717114627
Good, that means it's free

>>717109934
provide source

>>717115527
explain what about toby would have actually changed from the times of the halloween hack other than self-censoring (so you won't see "eat shit faggots" in deltarune, even if it's a gay saying it). he still loves earthbound and MOON and jerks off to touhou. he still loves stupid meta shit and playing with player freedom of choice. he's been working at the same fucking fever dream for 11 years now, which is nearly half his life.

>>717115160
Yeah, I can't disagree with you there. I think part of it is Toby wanting to make the game he's been planning all this time and the other part is him wanting to revisit Undertale's themes with a more nuanced view. It's why we get quite a few encounters where you're supposed to fight the enemy.

>>717112520
The ethics of doing immoral actions in a game that permits those actions is separate from the game itself. Yeah, the little fluffy character will be upset that you killed its mom, but that's just consistent writing. Whether that's actually immoral isn't something that e.g. Undertale explores. It specifically calls you out for doing the things you do not out of any commitment to good or evil, but just to see what happens. Which is hitting the nail on the head when it comes to people's engagements with evil routes in games. Plus that those actions hold no actual weight when you can just reset and rewind whenever you want, so Undertale tries to give those actions weight by using meta elements to show you that it remembers.

>>717113818
The Weird Route is marginally more justified than the Genocide Route. Genocide is just 'what if I killed everyone for no reason'. The Weird Route is essentially the Player fighting back, trying to wrest back control from the game and from actors such as Kris and Susie to have your own mark on the story. In that sense you are only as bad as the Knight and Kris are. And since those two are probably gonna get redemption arcs, it'd be funny if you are specifically branded as pure evil for Snowgrave.

>>717115670
how do you expect me to answer this when i don't know him personally? all i can observe is that he's better at writing and composing now than he was as a 16 year old. a person's interests don't have to magically be erased for them to change in smaller ways. i still like most of the things i did 5 years ago but i'm not the same as i was then

>>717110924 (OP)
Finished replaying Chapter 3 last night on my journey to eat all the moss. And to legitimately beat Jevil
Struggled with the Knight first time, as with many others.
Second attempt, aside from a brief crash after getting hit by the Knight once, I only used two ReviveMints and no Spincake on my (technical) second attempt. Guess you can say I CAN DO ANYTHING

>>717115607
Go to the Undertale reddit and look for posts before 2015.

>>717114382
>the real reason Carol wants Kris to impregnate Noelle is because there’s no other deer monsters in town and she’s just betting on human determination to be able to break the species barrier

>>717115607
>Provide source for random speculation on /v/ from 12 years ago
The whole idea is that all the elements in the demo of Undertale (content up to the end of the ruins) points to another person. Another HUMAN being there. "The True Name" text for Chara was already in the game. And the genocide route was already in. So the presumption was that you, the player, were actually playing as Chara and that you're evil.

>>717115759
>It specifically calls you out for doing the things you do not out of any commitment to good or evil, but just to see what happens

And what exactly is the point of this?

>>717115401
That's the only way I started to appreciate the geno route's story, but I still don't get his hate boner against completionism and grinding in RPGs.

>>717110924 (OP)
Okay so
>Undertale:"When monsters eat food, they magically absorb it leaving no waste".
>Susie CH1: "Man, feels like nothing I eat here matters."
>Ralsei has never eaten his own cakes, Lancer has never eaten the berries/isn't allowed to pick them.
>In the light world, Noelle's house has a bathroom, a household of only monsters.
I don't get it.

>>717116756
Actually, it's monster FOOD that's magic, not monsters. In Undertale one of the monsters mentions wanting to try human food and then wondering about human bathrooms.

>>717116756
>A household of only monsters
They still bathe.
And of course Carol installed a toilet just for Kris.

>>717116756
Here's how to get it:

* It'd be nice to... have someone to watch it with again.
* Heheh.
* ... what about, uh, Catti? Doesn't she like scary stuff?
* Umm... well, she just... takes it a little serious?
* Like, analyzes all the magic and stuff. It's a little...
* Haha, that's wicked annoying.
* Umm, no, no! ... but... yes.

Toby doesn't give a shit about this.

>>717116756
rudy's cum tissues had to go somewhere

>>717117010
>don't over-analyze the story
>except when I want you to by hiding theory bait in the game code and unused sprites and 200 types of "maybe coincidence, maybe bullshit" references

Is there any fan made Ramb battle theme that uses the unique bit from Dump as a leitmotif?

>>717116756
only monster food gets absorbed
this also works on frisk, a human

>>717116756
I remember that Ralsei said eating in the dark world won't fill you, i think it was at the start of ch3

>>717116885
>Food that's magic
It's basically both. For one the food in Undertale isn't actually food most of the time and it's literally just random fucking inedible trash larping as real food. But monsters still eat this stuff, say it's tasty, and are somehow satiated by it.
But then there's the fact that it actually fills your HP bar. So the underground's previously stated "thick magical air" instills their food with pure good vibes that actually heal injuries.

>>717115209
Doesn't this mod literally have trannies on it?

>>717116567
he's autistic
that's it, honestly

>>717117229
Not unexpected
>trying to see everything in a game is like destroying it
>but of course I filled to game to the brim with multiple interaction paths and blink-and-miss secrets

>>717116227
>"The True Name" text for Chara was already in the game.
No, it wasn't. There was no true name Easter Egg in the demo. As the anon who made the original claim, my point is that people believed the player and Chara were the same, just as we do for the player and the Red Soul currently.

>>717117464
schizo theory: he does that because he doesn't want YOU to actually experience all of it, he wants you to go online and talk to other people about it, like old message boards trading secrets. or homosuck readers arguing about theories. or artists making free art of things you didn't see to advertise the game.

>>717116756
Undertale monsters aren't Deltarune monsters.
90% of retarded schizotheories are people tripping themselves up insisting they MUST be the same.

>>717117392
Pretty sure it doesn't, but if there is then it blew right past me. I just find the final areas to be kino, especially the MY FUTURE final boss being a test of how much you were paying attention to your journey.

>>717116756
Dark World food doesn't have any substance, but we can assume that Light World food does, going by the fact that toilets are common. It's like how in Undertale Toriel used magic to cook whereas in Deltarune she just uses the stove normally, or like how both Susie and Noelle bleed whereas the monsters in Undertale didn't (except Sans, who comes from Deltarune). Undertale monsters and Deltarune monsters aren't the same, clearly

>>717116885
You're right, so then there must be regular food as well as 'monster food' in the light world? Unless only the dark world has this monster food.
>>717116949
Yeah, it's possible there's no toilet since we never went in.
>>717117010
Now that I've thought about it, the original lines were probably just a nod to video game logic of eating food to heal and you can just keep eating and never be 'full'. I've been obsessing over toilets for no reason.

>>717117691
The light world just has 'food.' Deltarune monsters don't operate on Undertale rules. Same reason Toriel doesn't cook with fire magic.

>>717117691
Just like we've been obsessing over Mike for no reason.

>>717117691
>Yeah, it's possible there's no toilet since we never went in.

>>717116472
It's commentary on moral systems in games. That the way they are often engaged with doesn't have much to do with the player's actual moral compass, especially when it comes to doing evil routes. But that instead it's just prodding for novelty in a piece of media one is already familiar with instead of moving on. Searching for it somewhere else and risking being challenged. That doesn't really mean that the game doesn't want you to play the evil route. You wouldn't even know that this is what the game says unless you play the evil route. It just gives you food for thought. A critical look at a mechanic present in many games.

>>717111479
>autists twisting themselves in knots over what amounts to little more than a drip-feed of incredibly basic furfag melodrama
Toby really has hustled these failures into thinking he's some kind of 4D plot conceiver with Zanzibart-tier throwaway dialogues.

Fish fuckers? Still going strong a decade later.

>>717117010
>Susie, will you have sex with me if I shit on all my friends?

>>717117868
God damn it.

>>717111035
he's male

>>717115670
>so you won't see "eat shit faggots" in deltarune
About that...

The message of Undertale is that autistic people are bad and will never be able to enjoy fiction in the correct way. Very cool, Toby!

>>717117954
Why does Toby goes out of his way to make Noelle seem like a really shitty friend?

>>717117847
>for no reason
It's entirely fair that people thought Mike was FRIEND, but the Mike room was pretty clearly Toby telling theorists that Mike isn't FRIEND. FRIEND will still be significant

>>717118068
it's true
we deserve death

>>717117265
I don't think, unless I didn't notice it.

>>717111479
>Why can't I blame everything in the game on a smiley face like a game with GOOD writing?

>>717118105
because that's her character. she doesn't really like Berdly but tolerates him and her feelings towards Kris are clearly very complicated

>>717118229
Kek

>>717118105
He did brought Toriel down so I'm hoping Noelle is going down next.

>>717118229
deltarune has bad writing

>>717118068
Based Tobert.

>>717118065
But /v/ told me he's so embarassed by his 20 year old romhack that he hopes no one ever mentions it again since he wiped all traces of it from the internet.

>>717111479
>I'm already offended about my fucking schizoheadcanon being made fun of
go outside

>>717118114
Okay, but what was the point of all that build up about Mike and how the "Cathode's crew" screwed him or something?

On a side note, Ramb fits a lot of things people expected out of Mike. Tenna'd henchman, ties to the secret boss, knows Spamton, is treated like shit by the TV World.

>Monsters are different from Undertale

They literally just keep adding in more details that explicitly say, "HUMANS ARE DIFFERENT FROM MONSTERS AND MONSTERS GO 'WOW HUMANS ARE SO DIFFERENT FROM MONSTERS BECAUSE THEY NEED STUFF LIKE 'OXYGEN' TO SURVIVE".
If you get stuck on this point you're a stupid autist.

The only question is really where does this go? What does Toby actually plan on doing with this since it keeps coming up? It's basically used to make sure you know Kris is a massive loser, but it has to be more important than that.

>>717118229
>Concluding symbolism and mystery put in the game is bad writing, you should build-up things and insert secrets for people to find only to subvert them into shitty one-off jokes for the lulz.

>>717118114
Friend does not have a tail, we've literally seen the fucking thing
People have been drawing it with the picture from the prophecy for literally no reason but to pretend it's important

>>717118229
Unironically Deltarune fans will say this if FRIEND is a nothingburger.

>>717118278
And Catti?

>>717117952
reminder Undyne is bald

>>717118105
Optimist answer: Toby is setting up for an absolutely massive shitstorm involving Noelle and/or everyone she's been bad-talking behind their backs, primarily involving Kris
Pessimist answer: Toby doesn't realize he's doing it and only cares about uwu lesbians and it's meant to show how much Noelle and Susie care, to where Susie doesn't even say anything when Noelle shittalks her BFF Kris
"The glass is fucking broken yo" answer: Toby is seeing just how obviously shitty of a person he can make Noelle and have people still love her unconditionally because uwu lesbian girlfailure

>>717118104
Jesus fucking christ Asgore step on the gas
We MUST protect Kris from this wench

>>717118493
Catti is too obsessed with Noelle. It's unhealthy.

Togore is just Prunsel for redditors

>>717118439
no purpose
haha!

>>717118292
>give Susie flashbacks on how much she appreciates Toriel
>shit it all over in the end of ch4
people are not ready

>>717110924 (OP)
Kris had a massive erection during this

>>717118690
so did toby

>>717118493
Noelle being annoyed at Catti's tendencies while watching movies doesn't mean she outright dislikes her. it just means Catti has a trait Noelle finds annoying. maybe it's a bit scummy to use that as conversational fodder for her crush but people are acting like teenage girls don't gossip

>>717118542
If Dess will come back and say "Noelle... wasn't the greatest person" in the end, I would unironically stand up and clap.

>>717118105
Because despite what yurifags think she's not a mary sue. Be ready for Noelle and Susie not to get together either, that's coming too.

>>717118457
>No you don't understand, Sonic.execat HAS to tell me it murdered all my friends and bleed realistic blood for me, or else the story is worthless

>>717118439
Consider the following: DELTARUNE is simply a world without magic. In UNDERTALE, monsters were inherently magical, and that magic comes through in all aspects of their being; however, people tend to forget that humans are also capable of magic, like the sorcerers who created the barrier and sealed monsterkind away to start with. DELTARUNE lacks this inherent magic, so while Kris is made a point of having no magic ability, even in the dark worlds, monsters also lack this magic and can only use it in the dark world as well, which is just playing pretend. Instead of magic, all Lightners have the Determination that was formerly more or less exclusive to humans in UNDERTALE.

This means that in DELTARUNE, monsters still have what appears to be magical traits- turning to dust as they die, Fuku Fire, Susie's totally-not-Toby-having-a-vore-fetish ability to eat basically anything edible or not- but there's no explanation for it because they're all just re-used Undertale things and Lightners were originally going to be humans in the light world and monsters in the dark world, like Link in LTTP.

>>717118910
yes

>>717116885
>Actually, it's monster FOOD that's magic, not monsters
WRONG
>While monsters are mostly made of magic, human beings are mostly made of water.

>>717118362
this is true though

>>717118104
>you can bring me the boy
>You Can Bring Me The Boy
>YOU CAN BRING ME THE BOY

>>717118754
>people are acting like teenage girls don't gossip
People are acting like these characters are real people and not characters in a work of fiction.
It's unsatisfied to see her acting like this AND not get called out for it (both in-universe and through how the narrative frames her).

>>717118910
I will rape and kill you in real life.

>>717116567
>his hate boner against completionism and grinding in RPGs
It has been one of the core contradictions of RPGs since their conception: is the RP more important or the G?
Grinding is mechanization of the experience, something RP/storyfags look down upon.
In short: Do you like da grindan game?

>>717118925
Not reading this shit.

Come back to me when you're a literal living ball of flames who inserts logs into your body to "Eat" and tell me that this is hyperrealistic.

>>717118883
i've never heard anyone call noelle a mary sue, honestly. an author self-insert maybe, what with the rich upbringing and the JRPG fascination and the bully fetish and the cross country running, but not a mary sue, her life is almost literally falling apart at the edges and we're watching it happen in real time chapter by chapter and so far she can't do a damn thing about it. it's susie who gets the mary sue accusations

>>717118925
Magic exists in the Light World, DT was never exclusive to humans, and the rules about monster bodies are exactly the same as in Undertale.

>>717119051
>Magic exists in the Light World
where
what did I miss

>>717119042
And Susie only because she's the conventional narrative protag by default since Kris is unreliable at best and the SOUL is meta-narrative

>>717119107
magic tricks book
you need orbs or floating hands to use magic

>>717118473
>we've literally seen the fucking thing
No, only parts of it.
That said, pointed tail friend is purely fanon as of now.

I really really hope gaster doesn't show up in the main story in deltarune, unless he's properly introduced and I doubt he would be, it would be way too confusing for literally anyone who isn't an autistic retard who codedives and spends all their time reading wikis and shit, you could play both undertale and deltarune for 200 hours and if you didn't codedive like an autist or look shit up online you would know literally NOTHING about gaster.

>>717119226
floating hands is passive magic, like grillby, not active magic like toriel casting fire spells. it might as well say 'you need blue skin.' they're different things especially in an RPG
t. mage

>>717118620
The fuck is togore?

>>717118925
I still feel like we're going to have some twist about magic in Deltarune.

>>717119107
You can literally stab the floor and open a tear in fucking reality m8.

>>717119320
so there is magic

>>717119107
Book 1 on SOULs, which implies that elements from Undertale not being used in Deltarune is due to the Deltarune world not understanding how to utilize these extant forces despite the rules being fundamentally the same.

>>717119303
Gaster is the author of Deltarune. He will show up as the god figure of the world that made the prophecy, but that's it.

>>717119226
>you need orbs or floating hands to use magic
Prove it without using information from Undertale

>>717119320
>passive magic
>active magic
Now that's bullshit bro and you know it.

>>717119303
I think the fact he's very lightly involved at the character creation but is enough to imply the game might properly introduce him
Especially if the shelter is as fucked as people expect it to be

>>717119353
That's just pulling darkness that's already there from underground
Not magic

>>717119167
Eh, I'd say Susie more not because she's the protag-by-default or main character but because the plot warps around her whenever she's present or else she forces herself into it, overriding player dialogue, gaining new traits with no buildup eg. "Why can only Kris ACT? I can ACT too, watch," "yeah I play the guitar," "yeah I loved Dragon Blazers 2," "yeah I back-talk the mayor and tell her I'm gonna fuck her daughter," and how 50% of the game's plot threads are currently a retarded romance dodecahedron centered entirely around Susie which we are now being forced to watch instead of at least being asked "Hey Susie isn't on screen, why don't we see what Susie is doing."

>>717118965
Are you saying characters in a work of fiction shouldn't have realistic flaws? Lightners are supposed to be mundane and that includes teenagers being inconsiderate.
She doesn't get "called out" for it, but we can see that Susie clearly thinks less of her or at least momentarily reevaluates her for how she brushed off her friendship with Kris. We can also see her contradict herself about this when she confesses that she was incredibly glad to see that Kris was acting genuine again after Chapter 2's weird route. When she says all of this stuff she's in a safe environment (her house, with people who don't feel vengeful towards her and aren't the people she's badmouthing) so it wouldn't make sense for her to magically get comeuppance right now. And the narrative's framing of her is pretty impartial given the aforementioned dialogue where Susie asks her in a roundabout way if her ferris wheel ride with Kris meant nothing to her.

>>717119512
What's inside the shelter
The true lab from ut?

>>717119013
It's only a contradiction because we are too attached to the labels.
>The DnD guys came up with with a stat and battle system for the role playing, taking cues from war games.
>Early computers came and people wanted to recreate the experience, but the tech was too primitive to include the full range of story options a table top game has.
>Some created text based choose-your-own-adventure type games, others focused on adapting the stat progression and battle system.
>The turn based battle games got huge and went on a path of their own.

The appeal of a JRPG style game to me are the turn based battles and a satisfying linear story.
I personally don't like grinding, but my wish is for games to fix that, not to get grindy RPGs mocking the act of griding.

>>717119649
We don't know anon, that's the point of a mystery box

>>717117868
>>717117691
You can see your dad scrubbing it in the vent scene, anyway. why did he piss on the flowers

>>717119649
a dark world of some sort, based on the clouds coming out of it at the end of ch3

>>717118104
>"I just need that that little... soul you have."
No wonder he was freaking out so much during Spamton Neo.

>>717119503
>>717119375
it is bullshit but it's my Schizo Theory™. maybe 'enchantments' and 'intentional magic' would be a better comparison. like some of the same rules about boss monsters not aging don't seem to carry over either, but i would've considered that passive, not active. maybe it's better to agree that there's no concrete answer because toby keeps putting fucking positive information for both "monsters are still pure magic" and "monsters don't have magic anymore" because it doesn't matter and we're being the catti to his noelle, and he wants us to get over it and stop touching his horse

>hurr is there magic in DR
Toby thinks you're fucking annoying. Susie would consider you another Berdly.
>n-no toby isnt a hack and wouldnt make offhanded remarks at his most dedicated players
Undertale Geno when flowey makes fun of people watching geno on youtube

>>717119840
We just suffer from an abstract form of Stockholm's syndrome

>>717118104
DOELESTED

>>717119816
Filling your game with secrets and hour-long lore callbacks and HOLY SHIT PINK AND YELLOW AGAIN and THE PLACE IT RAINED and BLOOD? WHAT BLOOD? but also telling people to fuck off and stop thinking about other parts of the lore is purely dishonest storytelling and I think it's a really dick move, to be frank.

>>717110924 (OP)
haha

>>717119816
i don't give a fuck about what susie deltarune would consider me, because berdly did nothing wrong

>>717119816
>toby is a faggot that doesnt want people to read too much into his story because it falls apart if you do, the ideal toby fan is someone that takes everything at face value
i already knew this from the mike fight

>>717119645
>Are you saying characters in a work of fiction shouldn't have realistic flaws?
I'm not the type who thinks a good character must be likeable or relatable, but it's very hard to not make an unlikeable character frustrating to watch if they are not an antagonist.
Deltarune so far frames Noelle as someone who deserves pity and someone we should root for (and the same thing applies to Susie).
If you don't feel this way for the characters, the story just isn't enjoyable to watch.

>>717119969
I think people are ascribing way too much to this one line. Toby has been pretty consistnet with the lore. With most of the major differences between monsters and humans in deltarune being explained.

>>717119649
>What's inside the shelter
a dog playing with maracas
because you suck for expecting any foreshadowing to get a cool payoff

>>717119816
>consider you another Berdly.
I already know Berdly is the closest thing to me.

>>717120125
Part of rooting for a character is acknowledging their flaws and rooting for them to overcome them.

>>717119649
>What's inside the shelter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8zZUYV_yl4

>>717120123
That's his own fault for dragging the release of the game. People are just dissecting the whole game and its lore to make the wait more bearable.

>>717119969
>but also telling people to fuck off and stop thinking about other parts of the lore
You're just as bad as the "WTF THE GAME CALLED ME EVIL" people. Think about rationally, why would that line specifically be Toby Fox telling players not to think about it so hard when the game is full of recurring motif and its storytelling relies heavily on connecting dots? It's a disingenuous avenue of critique that relies on the idea that every line is actually Toby Fox speaking through his characters, especially in regards to the difference between monsters in Undertale and Deltarune which continue to be relevant throughout the chapters. If he didn't want you to think about any of this stuff he wouldn't have scrapped the Chapter 2 Susie bleeding sprite only to reuse the idea in a dramatic reveal (Susie punching the final prophecy).

>>717118473
So far most of the evidence comes from the website, the CH4 egg room in the website redirects you to the Noelle's blog which seems to mentions FRIEND, in the game the NPC in the egg room talks about poor children following the tail, the egg room itself it's art therapy that Kris went and is repressing memories by drawing a tree, the same thing that you do in the website, draw until the tree appears

>>717120551
>Dess was cucked by Asriel/Cattie therefore she tried to Kris soul and became the black knight.
>Noelle was cucked by Kris/Susie and therefore tried to...?

>>717118910
>or else the story is worthless
Nice strawman, but concluding that FRIEND will be important or relevant in the future because it's a recurring visual motif relating to deep darkness isn't the same as expecting it to be behind everything and answer every theory. Nobody was saying that or expecting that

>>717120182
>Toby has been pretty consistent with the lore.

>The UT neutral ending doesn't make any sense with the established rules around the barrier
>A bunch of instances he forgot monsters turn to dust when dying in UT
>Most aborted genocide routes make no sense
>Flowey lacks proper recollection of things you did after the ruins
>Flowey shows up post credits to tell you to fuck off even in the soulless pacifist endings
>Most of the Tenna and Mike foreshadowing was contradicted by chapter 3
>The King/Jevil plotline just got very convoluted

>>717111136
honestly i want to stock up on How To Draw Anime books and even How To Draw Furries books even though I'm in my 30s

i want to draw the porn i can't find

>>717119649
A RUINS based Dark World. We literally see it in Mantle.

>>717111545
https://x.com/wabatesh/status/1950781926006309320

>>717119840
>Catti and Jockington fans making Woodytier predictions instead of criticizing Toby.

>>717120580
t. Mike 3

>>717120580
>its storytelling relies heavily on connecting dots
like how Tenna was a criminal with a sinister smile who screwed over Spamton right before he was about to make it big

>>717120865
I literally see people constantly post about anticipating Friend being a big evil monster that's behind everything bad that ever happened in the game

>>717120294
Why should I acknowledge their flaws when the story itself doesn't?

>>717119816
>his most dedicated players are the ones who didn't play the game
you are retarded

>>717111495
You haven't played the games then.

>>717119695
Yeah, most games don't lean completely one way or another.
Munchkin-like attitudes will still arise anyway.
Point is that many people still don't get it after basically having it spelled out for them.
It would be funny if there was an equivalent for the theatrefags that care a lot about misgendering made up people.

>>717118104
Kris acts exactly like the type of guy who got molested by a creepy stoner when he was little. Right down to the violent tendencies.

>>717121136
Someone mindbroke Spamton so hard that he became one of the only darkners who legitimately tries to KILL Kris for fucking real. And all the signs point towards it being Friend, because Gaster is literally just in the game over screen giving you pep talks.

>>717120890
>The UT neutral ending doesn't make any sense with the established rules around the barrier
You mean you passing through the barrier without incident? I generally assume that's the souls doing.

>>A bunch of instances he forgot monsters turn to dust when dying in UT
Like? Sans?

>Most aborted genocide routes make no sense
?

>Flowey lacks proper recollection of things you did after the ruins
Doesn't he have lines for aborted genocides?

>Flowey shows up post credits to tell you to fuck off even in the soulless pacifist endings
Why wouldn't he? He doesn't know you are soulless.

>The King/Jevil plotline just got very convoluted
How so? I think it's pretty obvious. Only real question is how Jevil talked with anybody.

>>717121150
>Why should I acknowledge their flaws when the story itself doesn't?
I mean, who doesn't? Rudy? Catti?

I'M HAVING A BABY AND THE BABY IS YOU

>>717121150
We've only had half the story and Noelle is so far a secondary character. Chapter 4 is literally the first two her and Susie actually spend time together in the light world, and half of that is with Kris.

>>717121245
He's still straight though.

>>717121316
It was the KNIGHT you dumb fuck. The Knight was the the one passing crystals around and redpilling wacky darkners into being fatalistic. Why do you think Ramb didn't get the crystal in the chapter where the Knight was late. Gerson literally talks about the cunt entering his office and leaving the crystal in there, his battle is all about him denying the cope of his schizo boss contemporaries.

>>717121461
susie? kris? carol?

>>717121082
If you were paying attention you'd understand Spamton isn't a reliable narrator. In MANTLE, Tenna states that after he had been coaxing Spamton into telling him the secret to his success, Spamton agreed, but right before teling him / "signing the deal", he received a phone call, after which he turned pale and rapidly left; we know that Spamton was successful because of what he heard through the phone, and we know (a lot of his dialogue but specifically the weird route) is him projecting his failures and insecurities onto the subject of his speech. We also know that in exchange for Spamton's advice, Tenna was going to put him on TV and allow him even more success. Maybe the voice on the phone told him that Tenna was going to screw him over, but the end result is that they both hate eachother now, believing their failure is the fault of the other. This isn't a contradiction, you just haven't been paying attention. Tenna was never ruthless, it was Spamton's fabrication after he was told SOMETHING over the phone from the guy that was making him successful (which we know ran out when we meet him in Chapter 2)

>>717121632
>Susie
Knows her for like two days. Even then she does seem a bit put off when Noelle claims her relationship with Kris doesn't mean anything.

>Kris
Ghosted her for years. He clearly cares for her and seems genuinly dissapointed during that scene.

>Carol
Very strict with Noelle.

>>717121586
Spamton doesn't get the crystal. The Neo suit does. There's the possibility that the Knight was the one on the phone, but that's a different M.O. compared to Jevil and Gerson.

>>717121316
>Friend killed December, made Toriel divorce Asgore, stole Kris' soul, and delivered a plague unto our houses!

>>717121319
>You mean you passing through the barrier without incident? I generally assume that's the souls doing.
The game was very specific about needing a human+monster soul combo to get through, and Frisk didn't have that.
>Like? Sans?
The snails, the snowman, the spider food made out of actual spiders and Muffet thinking about turning Alphys into a juicy donut.
>?
Unless you kill Undyne the Undying, shit just goes back to normal
>Doesn't he have lines for aborted genocides?
Nope. You can kill him, close the game before Chara fucks up, reset and he just has his standard "we were that close to victory" line. Even the fucking demo had lines for specific scenarios like this.
>Why wouldn't he? He doesn't know you are soulless.
The implication is that Chara murdered everyone after the ending.
>How so? I think it's pretty obvious. Only real question is how Jevil talked with anybody.
The timeline of events is just too tight now, and apparently he forgot about the destroyed throne room from chapter 1.

>>717121319
>Most aborted genocide routes make no sense
>?
NTA, but I assume he refers to everything going back to normal and pretending nothing happened, like when you spare Monster Kid.

>>717121586
>It was the Knight
The Knight only gives shadow crystals to the STRONG because dark worlds are a world of STRENGTH. Which doesn't include Spamton because he's a fucking loser. Spamton's entire existence breaks the rules of the shadow crystals and schizodom because he never had a shadow crystal. Which can only point to the fact that this weird schizo effect on darkners is actually some complete outside force unrelated to the actual story going on.

>>717121558
Unless Dess came with extra present, he'd have turned into the unstable type of raped kid.
I bet Kris is secretly extremely sexist and rough in bed.

>>717121838
>the spider food made out of actual spiders and Muffet thinking about turning Alphys into a juicy donut.
Nothing saying monster dust can't be used to bake with, maybe it has the consistency of flour.

>>717121789
whoever killed Dess lead to all those other things through domino effect

>>717119816
>Undertale Geno when flowey makes fun of people watching geno on youtube

This is honestly inexcusably bad writing. Flowey has no in universe justification and is solely acting as Toby’s mouthpiece.

>>717121838
>The game was very specific about needing a human+monster soul combo to get through, and Frisk didn't have that.
6 souls grants you borderline omnipotence. It should suffice as a substitute.

>The snails, the snowman, the spider food made out of actual spiders and Muffet thinking about turning Alphys into a juicy donut.
Of those only one of them involves monsters and it's not something that actually happens.

>Nope. You can kill him, close the game before Chara fucks up, reset and he just has his standard "we were that close to victory" line
That's really not a lore issue as much as the developer not thinking of implementing anything.

>The implication is that Chara murdered everyone after the ending.
Does he see that?

>The timeline of events is just too tight now, and apparently he forgot about the destroyed throne room from chapter 1.
How exactly? We don't know how long the classroom was abandoned.

>>717121763
If you were paying attention you'd understand having everything a character says be a lie isn't good writing, specially if the set up was good.
This is the second time we get "the evil TV host isn't actually evil like how it was hyped up" in this franchise.

>>717121873
Yes, but in most cases that isn't TOO hard to believe. It becomes vaguely questionable after Snowdin but not so much to be entirely unbelievable.

>>717122145
I don't care about if you think it's good writing or not, that wasn't the argument. You were saying it was an inconsistency and I corrected you

>>717122060
It's mostly just a joke. A obvious "gotcha" for people that just watched the route rather than paly through it. It's not like he's talking about youtube and twitch.

>>717121971
>Nothing saying monster dust can't be used to bake with, maybe it has the consistency of flour.
That's as much of a stretch as "Nose Nuzzle Championship '98 is just the name of the contest despite how the text clearly builds up the gag"

>>717121838
>>717121971
>Muffet's food being made out of spiders

Live spiders. The joke is that the pastries are just filled with spiders.

>>717121995
And you know who it probably wasn't?
The jpeg smiley face

>>717122210
The creepy TV smile has nothing to do with Spamton and it goes unexplained why it is like this, it looks nothing like Tenna.

>>717122391
Imagine being this RAPED by a theory.

>>717122060
I am offended, appalled, and shitting my pants that Toby would dare to make a snarky joke at the expense of the most oppressed of people, those who watch videos on youtube

>>717122391
We have no clue who or what killed Dess, but FRIEND being the murderer wouldn't be a bad outcome.

well i guess i'm not playing red & yellow anymore

>>717122585
Based.

Though I do want to parody this in my fangame with a toggle for weeb shit.

>>717122413
>has nothing to do with Spamton
What are you talking about? We only ever see the TV Smile at the end of Chapter 2, unless there's something else you're referring to. And the TV Smile is Tenna, who was explicitly Spamton's business partner, even if you think it doesn't "look like" him. It appears on the CRT when the dark world opens and we see it again in the feature presentation. Maybe it's just how he presents himself on his show.
https://youtu.be/wd9hnjTQayk?si=lTDXgihsCob3JzD6&t=23

>>717122657
cry about it
you must hate mettaton and mad dummy

>>717122060
>NOOO THE META-AWARE CHARACTER WHO BITCHES YOU OUT IF YOU RESET THE GAME CAN'T MAKE A LITTLE JOKE ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WATCH GAMEPLAY ONLINE

Snowgrave will probably fuck up my copy, but its too addicting being evil in a way that induces true despair in everyone involved. Susie becomes more isolated, Ralsei loses hope, Kris gets even more suicidal, Noelle is turned into an obedient thrall of destruction, and I get to kill that fucking bird that I hate. I need Chapter 5 to come out, I NEED to torture everyone some more.

>>717123021
get some help retard you look pathetic

>>717122801
Your picrel still looks too diferent compared to the chapter 3 teaser smile.
Go back to the threads from when the Tenna border leaked and you will see a bunch of people confused over why Tenna has a Hanna-Barbera mouth instead of the crescent-shaped one.
The 3d TV is also inconsistent, as it has a beanmouth.

>>717123021
Snowgrave is unironically better than the main story so far. Only route where the Player is the force to be reckoned with that they are, the killer of an entire other universe.

>>717123021
for me the fun part is being nice while doing the weird route

>>717122860
>trooncase

>>717121838
>The game was very specific about needing a human+monster soul combo to get through, and Frisk didn't have that
Given that Omega Flowey's M.O was getting outside of the barrier and killing everyone, I don't see why the pocket dimension they fight you in (Flowey's world, as it is named in the fake save point) wouldn't have enough "soulpower" to put those in it through the barrier once it collapses. 6 human souls (+ Frisk's 7th, whatever that counts for) is a lot stronger than 1 + a monster's soul.

>>717122657
>game made by the "what if we added a woke option and if u turn it off it bricks the game haha"
>its a fangame of a fangame
The jokes write themselves.

>>717123021
>gets kicked into a trashcan and used as a fleshlight by m'theydy

>>717123021
just back up your save files

>>717122657
That's just a shitty attempt at gatekeeping.
Cocoapowder is for fags anyway. Kanaclover 4 lyfe

>>717123184
translation?

>>717123182
You get it. Praying for Noelle after PROCEEDing all over her is amazing.

>>717111136
>kris wants to fuck Susie
>noelle wants to fuck Susie
>berdly wants to fuck Susie
>anons want to fuck Susie
Is there ANYONE who doesn’t want to fuck the dino

>>717123180
>Killer of an entire other universe
Lol.

Never did that, nerd.

>>717123258
Cocoapowder is funny because I'm 99% sure Clover and Chara would try to kill eachother if they had a conversation for 5 minutes

>>717123326
hi

>>717123326
Toriel probably shes getting the gaster groping from fat bastard smiley trashbag

>>717123171
Again, even if you think it doesn't look like Tenna's smile, it isn't ambiguous. It appears on the CRT after the dark fountain erupts. This isn't an inconsistency in anything except character design. Which is fine, I guess, if you're bothered by it not being literally 1:1 with the smile at the end of Chapter 2. But that's irrelevant from a storytelling perspective, Tenna does a toothy grin in several sprites

>>717123323
it's funny how it makes kris looks like an autist even more

>>717123251
They will be used up and tossed aside like a dirty tissue when I'm through with Hometown.

>>717123330
The SOUL is implied to be the same one as the one in Undertale. It remembers Sans and tells him, and the SOUL soon realizes that people don't remember it from Undertale. It somehow knows to turn into yellow mode when Spamton becomes NEO, almost as if it knows how to deal with robots who have the word NEO in their name by now. Deltarune is intended for those who have completed Undertale, it makes sense for this to be the SOUL that both murdered and saved the underground

>>717122657
Red and Yellow was always shit. Should've been a mod of Frisk talking with Chara instead of Clover randomly being there with quirky dialogue.

>>717123326
catti
jockyboy

>>717121586
>The Knight was the the one passing crystals around and redpilling wacky darkners into being fatalistic
People really memoryholed the lines about "There was nothing but garbage noise" and "my view of this world has become darker, yet darker"

>>717122060
I absolutely hated the moment where Flowey looked at the camera and said: "Wow! You, the person watching this on the video-sharing platform youtube DOT com owned by google sure are a gigantic pussy! Hahahaha fuck you!" It was uncalled for and made me uninstall my web browser.

Late to the party just picked the game up a bit ago: what happened between Rudy and Carol that he doesn't refer to her as his wife? And why is toriel insistent that she be referred to as such
>>717123326
Carol

>>717123182
I like the implication this provides that it's not just a raw evil route done for the lulz
Like we clearly don't have the context for it yet but there absolutely is some reason why we gotta get Noelle all fucked up

>>717122657
this mod has literally been shat on by anyone who ain't a UTDR fag on twitter for having shitty writing for Clover and Chara, plus additions that feel needless and just murk with the og story
and its the woke option that's the red flag? seriously? fucking retard
>>717123258
>>717123392
its so funny how hard the faggots behind that mod push that ship so hard, despite it practically being built off of nothing; at least with frisk and chara you got that whole narrachara theory going on

>>717123806
That adds a little more justification to it. I hate evil routes that are done for the sake of being evil, I like when it has some nuance to it and the Weird Route seems to have that. How far are you willing to go to take back control? I assume that's the end goal. And if that's the case, are we really any worse than the Knight?

>>717119816
In what world are people who refuse to play Genocide Toby's most dedicated players?

ive never played udnertale yellow and i never will :)

>>717121224
>Munchkin-like attitudes will still arise anyway.
The "munchkin" attitude is what most games across history have been about, roleplaying is a very recent outlier.
I just want people to drop the RPG label so that "turn based battle and story driven adventure" can exist wihout people whining about it.

>It would be funny if there was an equivalent for the theatrefags that care a lot about misgendering made up people.
People here forgot Toby had a voice acting cameo in a show for little kids where he explains what being non-binary is.
Queers are the one demographic Toby panders to without challenging any of their beliefs. Don't expect that to change.

>>717119629
>overriding player dialogue
She did this like once or twice in Chapter 1's intro sequence to convey that she didn't care about anything Kris had to say in protest to her commands.
>gaining new traits with new buildup
>Why can only Kris ACT?
Because ACTing isn't inherent to Kris. Ralsei can do it too, he says "Sorry Kris!" after Susie makes that evident because he wanted Kris to have a unique role, because Kris can't use magic. A lot of Ralsei's actions are clearly him trying to make the dark world adventures as enjoyable as possible for Kris and Susie
>yeah I play the guitar
She poorly strums it a few times while Noelle praises her because, surprise, she's horny for her. At no point does she play the guitar competently, she only ever plays and talks about playing the drums with any degree of confidence
>yeah I loved Dragon Blazers 2
We knew that she played it in Chapter 2 because she referenced it to Berdly, and we knew that she played it (but not the first one) because she stole it from the lost & found. She's poor and fancied herself an outcast before getting Kris and Ralsei as friends, this isn't hard to believe
>yeah I back-talk the mayor and tell her I'm gonna fuck her daughter
Are you seriously claiming that Susie being defiant to authority, especially when she's badmouthed (she does the same sort of reflexive insult when Catti badmouths her to her face) is a "new trait"?
And the romance isn't even close to 50% of the game's plot threads, it isn't that all-encompassing. In Chapter 2, you can just skip the longest scene it's in by telling Ralsei you don't care, or by doing the Weird Route. Chapter 4 is when its at its most prominent and even THEN it's mostly dressing to the actual main reason for being at the holiday manor, getting the codes to the shelter and realizing that Kris is working to impede you, plus setup for whatever's going to happen at the festival next chapter.

>>717123392
Chara would kill clover because he hates humans. It's hardly personal.

>>717121586
Seam explicitly says that whatever drove Jevil insane was not the Knight and whatever was talking to Spamton is explicitly not the Knight either. The Knight never talks even when it would be convenient to and it barely seems to be alive half the time.

>>717124120
It wasn't the Knight exactly. It was probably Caroll, you know, the phone person that talks weirdly through a phone.

>>717123747
dess frantically running around hometown like a bum tossing glass shards everywhere is kinda funny though

>>717123182
I wonder how a "pretending to be a nice guy" weird route will look like at the late game. You can hug Ralsei, recruit a couple of enemies in the mansion and recruit everyone in the next chapters and still go on with the weird route.

>>717123782
I think he's calling her by name because they're close and he loves her, meanwhile Toriel is simply referring to her as Rudy's wife because they're distant and maybe have some disagreement (Carol's enabling of Asgore)

>>717122145
Mettaton was actually more evil than he was in Alphys' script because he was going to kill you for real and take your soul for his own selfish gain. The twist in Undertale is that he's actually worse than he was hyped up to be because he doesn't give a shit about defending the monsters he just wants fame

>>717123392
I already made a post like this, but that's my exact point.
Clover:
>Came to the underground to investigate the disappearance of the other humans before him.
>Sacrifices his SOUL to contribute to his new friends' eventual freedom.
>Possible theory that he is resurrected from the barrier breaking Caleb-style.
Chara:
>Came to the underground for a very "unhappy" reason, likely to kill themself or get bloody revenge.
>Upon adoption into the royal family, proceeds to do both reasons - killing themself and gaslighting Asriel into absorbing their SOUL to get bloody revenge.
>Ultimately kill Asriel (contributing to his reincarnation as Flowey in the process), spark Toriel and Asgore's separation, and can only be resurrected by actual genocide.
They're two sides of two completely different coins, where Clover is a golden dollar and Chara is one of the pieces of silver Judas sold Jesus out for. If Clover knew anything about Chara, he'd kill them on sight.
>>717123919
Also, something else I'm just remembering, it's funny that they have that Woke toggle when there's also a toggle to COMPLETELY DISABLE Chara and Clover's presence, the shittiest part of the mod, completely.

>>717123997
I like the idea of the Weird Route just being a game between two morally bad people, the Knight clearly holds some shit over Kris to make Kris undyingly loyal to it, and the Player holds sway over Noelle to the same end.

>>717124091
>And the romance isn't even close to 50% of the game's plot threads, it isn't that all-encompassing.
Fuck you. I'm not dignifying the rest of your post with a proper response.

>>717123549
Yeah, but none of that imples genocide. Let alone true pacifist. If you clear the game once killing everybody but Mettaton that is as valid as any other ending.

>>717124224
You just said it was the Knight and now you are saying it was Carol, that's moving the goalposts

>>717119629
Yeah I do think the Susie wanking is way overdone. Ok Toby, I get it. Your tough and cool badass girl OC is tough and badass. Can we move on now?

>>717124425
Not the same nigga.

>>717124358
0 days without seeing a "Susie is a mary sue" post that wasn't made by a hyperbolic retard

>>717124224
>the phone person that talks weirdly through a phone
There is one time she talks on the phone with you for sure and she just talks normally, the other times it's an incoherent speech that use the giygas sounds from the goner maker sequence.
You're falling for another Kris-Chara/Kris-Knight red herring again.

>>717120701
>the CH4 egg room in the website
???

>>717123782
I think it's less about Rudy and Carol and more about the Dreemurrs and Holidays having history, therefore they should be comfortable enough to be on first name basis. Like they used to come over and watch TV together, Toriel shouldn't be saying "your wife," you KNOW and have been around Carol before

>>717124089
>Queers are the one demographic Toby panders to without challenging any of their beliefs.
Furies and tomboy lovers

>>717124404
It's left ambiguous. Did YOU do genocide in your run of Undertale? Then you remember that. Because the SOUL is (You).

>>717124120
>insane
le depends on the perspective, jevil just became aware of his nature as a darkner a character on a set path in a set story and just decided to check out and get himself locked away forever instead of taking part

>>717124327
>Saving humanity is bad.
Mettaton had good motives.

>>717124331
Chars was motivated by justice. Just a very twisted revenge. Besides, he redeems himself in the true pacifist ending.

i forgot about susie and the piano
very telling, very melanin-enriched behavior. the desire to break and destroy, and the knowledge that she'd hate someone else for being able to play, yet the lack of realization that she ever actually did anything wrong. now that i think about it, almost all of susie's behavior actually makes perfect sense if you consider the idea that she has no real concept of past or future, and that anything she has done, or will do, is "some other lizza." the susie of chapter 1 is literally not the susie of chapters 2, 3, or 4 in her mind.

>>717124527
That is my assumption. You are also technically playing as Chara.

>>717123326

>>717124089
>Queers are the one demographic Toby panders to without challenging any of their beliefs
He has a blatant fetish for lesbians like THE HUSS of course he panders to fags (and by extension trannies because kris exists but that was most likely unintentional and then he leaned into it for brownie points)

>>717124858
Based SoulGOD holding out for some prime deerMILF tail.

Susie's problems and flaws just are insignificant compared to the other main characters. The SOUL is an interdimensional deity that has the power to kill everyone with enough willpower, and is trapped against its will inside of another person and abused by them. Kris is a loner who has his life turned upside down by someone who is puppeteering him, in one route he is sent to his breaking point as he is forced to torture his friend. And he is essentially a bitchslave of the Knight, bound to some kind of 'promise'. Ralsei clearly knows way more than he lets on about his situation, he's forced to hide things from others, he knows he isn't real and only exists to entertain Kris and Susie. He is a nihilist that doesn't believe the prophecy can be changed and knows about Kris' predicament. What's Susie's problem? She was picked last in gym class? She has new friends every day and half the characters want to fuck her.

>>717124759
White people caused two world wars out of greed, malice, and stupidity.

>>717116756
>>Susie CH1: "Man, feels like nothing I eat here matters."
That reinforces that monsters in Deltarune light world eat food, digest it, and excrete it.

>>717124912
Yes, but she's also a woman, so you should feel sorry for her.

>>717115562
This is a phenomena unique to Tobyfags. Nobody bitches about people doing the Frenzied Flame ending in Elden Ring.

>>717124912
Susie told Kris that his mother never loved him and that the world would be a better place if he died.

>>717123326
Me. I love human women.

>>717124912
>The SOUL is an interdimensional deity that has the power to kill everyone with enough willpower
No were not, we can only stay within the confines of the SURVEY PROGRAM and make preprogrammed choices were stuck in a cage (haha) just like every character its like COMMENTARY ABOUT THE NATURE OF LINEAR NARRATIVES

>>717124503
Samael soured his opinion on furries, hence "furry degenerate"
>>717124863
He has an emasculation fetish, which leads to all the tomboys, the few gay men, and the lesbians as a contrived form of denial.

>>717125016
she was just kidding, it's cool
don't worry about it. the locker did 0 damage to kris's head, you can tell from the stats menu because you do take overworld damage elsewhere. she was just saying mean spur of the moment things, and it was simultaneously the first time it happened and has also been going on for long enough that even noelle wondered why kris didn't do anything. it was just friendly banter between friends.

>>717124919
White people don't exist in the world of Deltarune, only aracial Humans.

>>717124919
22 million people died in WW2 purely by the product of the war between China and Japan. 27 million Soviet citizens died as a result of Germany's invasion of the country. You just don't study that in schools because the supposed 6 million Jews that died as a result of German racial policies are considered educationally more important.

>>717124912
susie tried to suggest to steal a priest's grandfathers corpse

>>717115562
It's hard to enjoy being evil when the game punishes you for that. I want to be evil and get away with it, like in UTY.

>>717125112
>we can only stay within the confines of the SURVEY PROGRAM and make preprogrammed choices
You can also turn the game off. (laugh)

>>717125119
Which is why it's a better, more peaceful place.

>>717125013
Exactly. That's actually my favourite ending in that game. Same in the Armored Core series. Fires of Raven is my favourite and the Oldking route in FA. It feels like people just self insert so much and get so lost in the meta narrative that they forget that this is a piece of media to be enjoyed, and you can like things that are dark in theme and evil.

>>717125151
Im aware of the Germans killing 24% of the population of the USSR. Holocaust was bad but it was hardly the biggest crime of the nazi. The biggest being starting the war.

>>717125231
id enjoy it if the game called you out for quitting mid gameplay sometime like oneshot does even if its a small thing

>>717124503
>and tomboy lovers
Toby is clearly in the "tomboys are lesbians" camp

>>717124912
This is true, and it's why she's the one inheriting the position of the traditional heroic protagonist looking to change inevitable fate. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, the game drives home that Susie is mostly a normal girl who's crude and impulsive but mostly just needs a purposeful environment (the dark worlds) and companionship (Kris, Ralsei, Gerson) to have her best qualities brought out, of the Delta Warriors she's the most capable of change and maybe the most capable of inspiring change (aside from the SOUL).

>>717125313
I find most evil endings boring outside of strategy games.

>>717125112
I understand that it's commentary about the nature of linear narratives, but I'm not big brained enough to get what the commentary is actually supposed to BE. Is it just observational? What's the point of all the commentary? What is the actual message, if not the Halloween Hack "the point of the game is to make you feel cheated" that reposting is asking to get dogpiled on?

>>717125112
>just like every character its like COMMENTARY ABOUT THE NATURE OF LINEAR NARRATIVES
Man I just want a high quality RPG with scrimblo characters.
The meta shit keeps forcing itself above that against my will like an obese man in a movie theater standing up in front of me.

>>717125360
Yes, but the game spends an exorbitant amount of time trying to get me to feel sorry for Susie when her life is probably better than most people. Kris and Ralsei live through hell on earth and they don't get anywhere near as much wankery.

>>717124759
Anon that quote very clearly is meant to show that she thinks what she did and how she'd have felt about Kris is stupid

>>717111479
>STILL seething about the Mike banter
I often forget how full of actual autists this fabase is filled with.

>>717125173
said priest already dug up his father's grave for whatever reason
susie's arguably treating it with more respect

>>717125013
>>717125313
No mention of Infamous? Shameful.

>>717125350
dess was a tomboy and it's very heavily implied that her and asriel were a thing

>>717125350
No. Bisexual.

>>717124490
https://deltarune.com/thepoorchildren/

Keep drawing until the Tree appears, just like how Kris draws in the egg room, the Tree takes you to Noelle's blog talking about something resembling Friend

>>717125350
toby is in the tomboys are lesbians and they should make fun of me while making out camp
he shares tastes with his "mentor"

>>717125497
she isn't that kind of person. it's never regret over an actual thing, it's just how she would have felt about kris. same as the "imagine if we had been friends earlier" bit. it's a sort of 'excusing herself' from blame by glossing over it, there's a word for it but i am also not smart enough to know what that word is.

>>717125412
Only bad writers make bad evil endings. I think FromSoftware's evil endings are very good from a writing standpoint.

>>717125605
Infamous evil route only became fun at the end of 2. When it actually felt like a valid path and not just being a dick for the sake of it.

>>717125493
Why are you so preoccupied with what the game is trying to make you feel? On top of that, I'd say it "tries to make you feel" the worst for Ralsei, with what happens in the beginning of Chapter 3 (Ralsei telling Susie that he will never be real), the end of Chapter 3 where he talks to Tenna (says that it doesn't matter if they're discarded), his empty room in Chapter 4, Chapter 4 where he talks about how he hasn't ever eaten his own cake, and his big prophecy scene in Chapter 4 where he laments the inevitability of the rules governing his existence. He objectively has more "wankery"

>>717123258
>>717123392
>entire mod built around the number one human hater and a dumbass who jumped down a mountain to avenge five kids being forced to interact
>does nothing with that concept and just makes clover a optimist twink and chara a moody edgelord
at least the ship is funny in concept alone

>>717125693
Has anyone here seen Toby speak at a convention? Dude is built like a stick and has the voice of a 14 year old. He is quite literally untermensch and so you can only expect him to be into stuff like that.

>>717111479
The Mike thing was always retarded in how blown-out-of-proportion it was by the fanbase, I will never understand the seethe.

I never paid much attention to it and from the very beginning of ch 3 when I replayed the entire game when 3/4 came out, I understood that Spamton's shoutouts to Mike were pretty much always just corrupted versions of the same thing Tenna does when calling out to him. It was meant to foreshadow their connection and their similar habits as collaborators, Mike wasn't meant to be some psycho crazy schizo guy. The fanbase brought that fate onto themselves. FRIEND meanwhile is a recurring theme and piece of iconography strongly associated with dark and the schizo bosses/schizo content. It has thousands of times more relevance than Mike ever did.

>>717125693
I will never forgive the lesbian race for doing that to my Rose Lalonde. They must all die slow painful deaths.

>>717125430
we dont know yet, when undertale came out just the idea of a "playable creepypasta route" was novel enough to carry genocide we will see if snowgrave actually does something interesting with the set up or if its just another HEY WOULDNT IT BE FUCKED UP IF WE APPLIED REAL LIFE STANDARDS AND MORALITY TO VIDYA GAMES message

If Undertale was written like people think Deltarune will be, Flowey's identity would be some random noname fuck we've never heard of because the True Lab made it "too obvious" that he's Asriel and it wouldn't be a shocking twist reveal to show at the end

>>717125493
You don't get it anon, she was PICKED LAST FOR GYM CLASS.
>there is an actual possibility that due to that bit of her backstory, Toby will reference all the 'Susie is the white trash girl in cookie monster pajama pants' art/memes going around
And now I just realized how funny it is the fanbase will have shitfits about pronouns but totally glosses over the phrase 'white trash.' Like it's not actually laugh-out-loud funny, but it tickles me nonetheless.

>>717124759
Being a vindictive and vengeful shit isn't melanin-exclusive behavior thoughbeit

>>717125749
>Why are you so preoccupied with what the game is trying to make you feel?
NTA but this is a narrative driven game. If I don't like the narrative, the overall enjoyment is hurt.

>>717124013
Chad.

>>717125714
I tend to like them mostly when they actually have a point. Like dark lord ending in Dark Souls 1.

>>717125794
I am a literal untermensch and all my kinks revolve around my burning desire to not be that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlTNKOnfXFk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvYL8u4p-aM
>two songs in a row that suspiciously align with Deltarune characters (Tenna/Kris)
>the producers apparently know Toby personally
URRRGGGGGHHH I'M THEORIZING!!!

>>717125794
He's a jew, so he's superior than whites by default.

>>717124331
>Caleb-style.
Wait, so it's not an Undertale fan game, it's a Blood fan game?

>>717126009
Well that's the nature of FromSoftware games. It's unclear. You are explicitly told in AC6 though that the genocide ending is objectively good at stopping catastrophe, and FA has a similar plot point with the Destruction route if you do a little digging in the lore. Frenzied Flame is honestly the most pointless evil route that FromSoft has made, though I didn't do the Shura route in Sekiro.

>>717125810
>I will never understand the seethe.
Jevil's "Queen" had an actual payoff. Why shouldn't we expect the same out of Spamton's "Mike"?

>>717126082
It took a good 15 years but English-language Vocaloid has gotten really good.

>>717125732
Yeah, I should have specified 2 since that's where that scene is from, but it's noteworthy enough I'm surprised no one mentioned it.
>I gotta try.
>I know.

>>717125848
It's interesting mostly in being a bastard boyfriend simulator.

>>717125761
>eyelashes
>flower pin
>miniskirt
>fucking stockings
>"btw chuds chara is non binary"
what ever you say

>>717126081
This, people's kinks tend to be the opposite of what they are/have in real life. Hence why, for example, cops and corporate executives like being dommed.

we're at a point where friend could literally be wang dang gister himself, but people still refuse to accept it as anything but a nothingburger.

>>717125868
nigger true lab was the end of the fucking game and required you to do an entire neutral playthrough to get to it.

>>717126235
he's a boy
clearly

>>717126123
Do not besmirch Toby Fox like that, he is of good racial stock and is an Episcopalian.

>>717126161
spamton did have a payoff; the knight's name is mike

>>717125749
trying to make the player feel is the entire point of toby's games. do you think he just farts out leitmotifs and musical stingers for the hell of it or does he surgically implant that shit to hit players in the feels? right from the first screen of undertale with the garbage player art, all his work is about the player getting comfy with garbage and then getting chokeslammed by feels.
motherfuckers need to read the undertale art book

>>717125493
Susie's problems are more relatable, with Ralsei and Kris half of the fandom were convinced they're evil and some haven't changed from that stance. Susie's likable because out of an entire cast of two-faced dipshits and nobodies, she's the only character that keeps it real and optimistic. There's a nonzero amount of people, probably in this thread, that would be fine with killing all of Hometown but sparing Susie.

>>717125794
he looks like john egbert
>>717125814
ill never forgive for choosing a boring nothingburger like kanaya who she has no real chemistry with outside coy bullshit which she does much better with everyone else

>>717125761
Its called enemies to lovers.

Besides, girls like Chara would melt for the first human that's nice to them.

>>717126123
>than whites

>>717125693
while i disagree that all tomboys are lesbians, i do believe that kris is susiesexual and vice versa

>>717126161
Because it was actually a troll and therefore it was retroactively STUPID and DUMB to believe the secret boss foreshadowing a future character in the exact same manner the last one did means anything and Deltarune fans were always idiots.
If you correctly predicted Mike to be a meaningless red herring that's not a good thing.

>>717126235
The only reason non-binary exists even as a concept is so mentally ill zoomers can enjoy a straight ship without feeling guilty about it.

>>717126235
Chara is obviously a girl. His entire life is a shoujo manga gone horribly wrong.

>>717125905
That specific type of 'gibsmedat. no? imma break it' is however

>>717126371
Chara would put anthrax in Clover's OJ without hesitation or regret.

>>717126350
>>717125814
Who the fuck cares about Rose? The real tragedy is Terezi not hooking up with either Dave or Karkat. Hopefully DR will fix this injustice because Kris is obviously based on Terezi

oh lord it's michaelfag

>>717126161
Spamton had a payoff though. His constant sperging about TVs was foreshadowing Tenna.

>>717124721
No. She wasn't. Chara was motivated by power. That's the one Chara characterization we know of her. Wants to become strong enough to be invincible.

>>717126520
Nah.

Misantrophes just need to learn how wonderous humans can be through love.

>>717126313
I didn't mean it like "what the game is trying to make you feel doesn't matter", what I meant was that it feels an awful lot like that anon's perception of Susie is in response to her position. Like "this character expresses her difficulties often, so I dislike her even more in response". I don't think that's a great way to engage with things, my shaping your opinions around what you think the author was trying to accomplish. I mean it's fair if he just doesn't like Susie but the argument that "the game tries to make me feel bad for her", as if the game is diminishing Ralsei and Kris' struggles in comparison to hers when they're just more subdued (or in Ralsei's case, outright greater than Susie's) rubbed me the wrong way

>>717126556
>Who the fuck cares about Rose?
People with taste.

>>717126556
>Kris is obviously based on Terezi
we found the schizo tell me anon how did you get your shadow crystal

>>717126593
only men want power

>>717125868
True Lab is, like, Chapter 7. People would just think Flowey is an asshole monster that won't be relevant beyond the RUINS.

>>717126161
The payoff was Tenna and Chapter 3 as a whole.

>>717126593
She wanted revenge, was beloved by the underground, cared about Asgore, wasn't the best person, and never wanted to be hurt again.

>>717118542
the BASED answer: Toby is going to justify the genocide route, as an inversion to Undertale. Inversion theory is going to become canon.

Captcha is a lying nigger.

>>717126161
Spamton's payoff was Tenna
>WE DON'T NEED ANYONE ELSE!!! WE DON'T NEED [[Easels]] or [[CRTs]]!
Given that Tenna was half of Chapter 3 speculation alongside Mike I really don't think it's that big a letdown

>>717126235
Troons will dress both Frisk and Chara like girls and still say dumbshit like "non-binary yuri".

>>717126429
If I try to give Toby the benefit of the doubt, I think "Mike" was always supposed to be a joke about a character that is never seen on screen, and he decided to set up the gag early through Spamton.
Having him talk about "Mike" and "Gameshow Host" lead to everyone expecting a criminal gameshow host called Mike.
He realised he fucked up and tried to damage control with the DAMN YOU TENNA page, which only fucked up things further.
Then, for some fucking reason he decided to acknowledge the fan speculation within in the game with the fake Mikes.

Is UTY actually worth playing? I like the idea of a genocide route being based off of 'These guys kill innocent children lets kill them all to stop that' instead of yet another fanslop game being 'CHARA POSSESSED ME AND MADE ME KILL SUPER SANS WITH THE 7 CHAOS EMERALDS FUUUUCKKKK'

>>717124912
She just straight up doesn't fucking know any of what's actually going on, it's that simple. She thinks they're just on some big save the world adventure and she's happy she has friends now, that's it.
She's unaware about the whole fucking backstory, and her learning about it all is probably going to be the main focal point of the later parts of the game
It's not like she doesn't care, she's legitimately extremely concerned at how Kris acts after the Spamton fight until Ralsei smooths it over, she feels incredibly bad for Ralsei all through 3 and 4 and wants to find ways to make him happy, and she starts asking about the soul until she goes off to catch Gerson and learns the end of the prophecy.
I think the average player up to now is also not quite supposed to have pieced together what's going on and be in the same boat, thinking that it's mainly a story of Susie's character growth, we've just analyzed it to the point where we know there's way more severe shit going on.

>>717126790
Chapter 4 referencing a fuckton of genocide-exclusive dialogue is something that's gone over the heads of like 99% of the fanbase.

Fun fact: Anyone who says pre-Chapter 3 Mike theorists are stupid for expecting Spamton's dialogue to mean anything is the type of person who'd do the exact same if Toby gave himself brain damage and made Gaster a red herring that never mattered

>>717126952
Isn't it free?

>>717126745
>Revenge
Purely fanon.

>>717126851
poons*
get your terminology sorted brah we gotta get granular up in this bitch troons are the ones drawing susie with a fat schlong

>>717126952
It isn't.

>>717126429
I don't get why people are so bitter about the Mike room. Tenna did have a major role and the entity people thought WAS Mike (IMAGE_FRIEND) will almost certainly have a major role

>>717126984
I mean, I noticed Gerson talking about Undyne the Undying.

>>717126340
>Ralsei and Kris half of the fandom were convinced they're evil and some haven't changed from that stance
I mean, Ralsei had his heart to heart (heh) but Kris is way, way further out in the "what the fuck are you doing?" corner than even at the end of chapter 2 opening a fountain in his own house, so even if Kris isn't 'objectively evil' it isn't wrong to say they're more than likely opposed to... whatever we're supposed to be doing at this point.

>>717126161
>>717126429
if you think mike is a red herring you're dumb. a character doesn't get namedropped 36 times and have an entire minigame devoted to it, just to have it go nowhere.
>b-but the mike room
the mike room isn't even about mike, it's about gaster. the michaelbomb blacks out the screen, flashes the word "reset", and plays the fucking grandpa semi theme. M in wingdings is also a fucking bomb.

I want Kris to kiss Asriel
I want Frisk to kiss Asriel
I want Chara to kiss Asriel

>>717126637
Look man I get you have a type but we're talking about the same kid that poisoned their adoptive dad as a prank and tried to emotionally manipulate their adoptive brother into attempted genocide after killing themselves. The same kid that values power above all else surrounded in a place full of creatures whose compassion comes naturally to them. I don't think love is gonna cut it.

>>717126952
yes, but it's a fanfiction.

>>717126667
>Like "this character expresses her difficulties often, so I dislike her even more in response". I don't think that's a great way to engage with things
maye not but i understand his position, it's a natural response to being told something over and over and over again. call it pointless rebellion or being a hipster or whatever, but at some point you decide something just feels 'forced' and from then on every time it shows up you just get more tired of it, even if in a more moderate amount you would have been fine with it

>maybe kris wasnt the greatest person
>but (You)
>(You) are the brother I always wish I had

>>717127194
>anon did not walk all the way to the right after the mike battle

>>717126996
I'm going to say right now (and have been saying since chapter 2) that Gester is going to amount to nothing in the game beyond the in-universe creator of the game program. No physical appearance, no connection to anything beyond being the mysterious voice, we'll probably get an acknowledgement at the end of the game but no physical appearance, and anyone expecting anything more is delusional. His role in the story is going to be entirely meta, nothing in-universe.

>>717127194
>M in wingdings is also a fucking bomb.
so is this why ERAM or Mantle uses bombs or am i expecting too much schizofaggotry from Tobias Foxington

>>717127039
Wtf is a poon?

>>717126927
Exactly this. The way Mike was handled didn't make me mad, it was more of a canary in the coal mine situation where seeing how badly Fox handled the foreshadowing made me think "Huh, so I guess he isn't a master storyteller after all" (along with that bullshit Chapter 4 cliffhanger lmao). The games are still fun for the wacky-ass characters but I'm no longer really invested in the "plot".

>>717127307
I will do 666 Snowgraves out of sheer rage if this happens. Imagine teasing this character for 10 years and doing nothing with him.

>>717127391
List off all the actual teases and you might be able to find the common thread, anon.

>>717126667
>"this character expresses her difficulties often, so I dislike her even more in response"
It's more like "this character and the narrative barely acknowledges she still is to blame for a lot of what's going wrong with her life, and the narrative expects me to like her"

>>717126927
>Then, for some fucking reason he decided to acknowledge the fan speculation
In the industry, this is what we call, "Phase 2 of Hussie-ification."

>>717127194
Everyone keeps forgetting that Tenna literally never knew Mike

>>717127108
I don't care that Mike wasn't anything actually important, I care that retards keep parroting how STUPID everyone was for daring to theorize he was a major character right after the last schizo namedropped the next main villain in the same way.
There was plenty of reason to expect Mike to be the name of the smiling TV antagonist up until Sweepstakes revealed Tenna's name, and no reason to believe it would be a fakeout. Saying otherwise is retarded contrarianism and wanting to feel right about everything.

>>717127307
i'm so glad you fags aren't writing this game

>>717127331
you mean the entity who uses DEVICE_FRIEND as a weapon and secretly copies gaster's shitty catchphrase might be related to gaster?

>>717127000
He wanted to know the face of every person he killed. If he just wanted power he could have killed people in the wood.

>>717127221
She was like eight and most things indicate her life was shit. Meeting Asriel didn't fix his misantrophy because it just made her hate humans even more

>Murder Boy
>Only succeeded in murdering himself

>>717127473
Fair enough, I guess. But I haven't seen anyone saying that people are stupid for thinking Mike will be important, pretty much everyone expected something from Mike pre-Chapter 2

>>717127450
toby says learned helplessness is quirky

people really think Toby is just Gay Scott Cawthon huh

>>717127305
>We literally see real Mike but nobody gives a fuck

>>717127512
more of a was the usage of bombs another deliberate connection or just an accident

>>717127639

>>717127387
>The games are still fun for the wacky-ass characters
That plus "the gameplay and the bosses are still fun" was my cope after chapter 2 disappointed me.
Then I got one chapter which is 50% just a zelda clone and barely uses it's theming, another chapter with barely any unique side characters, and two chapters that barely had any bosses overall.

>>717127565
>He wanted to know the face of every person he killed
Fanon. The village was just the closest human settlement.

>>717110924 (OP)
>best companion

>>717127779
It was his hometown.

>>717127463
>In the industry, this is what we call, "Phase 2 of Hussie-ification."
Please enlighten me over all the phases

>>717127305
>anon didn't activate the michaelbomb and see that mike's full name is, in fact, michael and not mike.

>>717127387
Gameplay, the wacky moments, Weird Route and Gaster is what's keeping me invested right now. I find Susie extremely grating and I don't care about her subplot. The Kris SOUL shit is going nowhere in the normal route. Just more and more blueballing.

>>717127660
The guy in question thinks Mike is actually an unseen super duper secret Lightner named Michael and is the key to everything and he's FRIEND and the Knight and the main investigator of Dess's disappearance and Bing Bong Gaster or whatever the fuck and thinks it's proven because "everyone in the Dreemurr and Holiday families has a 4 letter nickname" even though Asgore and Carol don't, he's huffed too much schizo gas to care

>>717127864
Let's just say you don't want to get to Phase 4.

>>717127849
Doesn't change my point.

>>717128013
please explain it
I was too young to be a homestucker

>>717127982
>theorizing based on letter counts of names
Homestuck and its consequences

>>717127450
Am I remembering wrong or did Susie actually meet Toriel before she met Kris, when she first moved in, and Toriel comforted her and told her she'd have friends and she was STILL a shithead after that, especially towards Kris, knowing that his goddamn mother was the one who showed her (warrantless) kindness and told her she'd have friends
That makes it sound like every single thing is completely Susie's own fault and I feel like that's believable but also feel like Toby didn't actually realize that or want it to come off that way since he seems to be doing a bang up job making sure she skirts responsibility for everything

>>717128034
Again, pick off in the woods. No reason to charge into his hometown and start butchering.

>>717125714
The aren't really evil endings; I don't think they are very satisfying desu. The plots of those games are extremely lackluster. They are still very good games, but not because of their plots. Then again, I haven't played the latest ones, so maybe they improved.

>>717127194

>>717127450
What's going wrong with her life was her refusal to socialize with others, which is being amended throughout the course of the game, and which she outright states
>...man, we could've been friends way before
and her tearing down of things when she feels slighted, which she acknowledges and appears to be moving past without literally turning towards the camera and saying "I am developing as a character!"
>... A week ago, if I knew you did piano...
>... I probably would've just hated that about you.
>But now...
>I kinda... just wanna hear you play.
It's important to note that Susie simply isn't an apologetic person as a character, but what do you think is missing? Also I disagree entirely on the narrative not acknowledging her faults, the narrative is pretty clear that Susie is only as happy as she is because she's around people who are willing to forgive her when she fucks up like Lancer, Kris, and Ralsei. We know from the Sweepstakes that Kris doesn't care about her bullying and is capable of saying stuff that makes her run out of the room, and Ralsei tolerated her in Chapter 1 because she was a hero of the prophecy before coming around to like her (he's an open guy). That isn't "the narrative" sugarcoating her situation, that's her being surrounded by characters who aren't particularly interested in hearing her apologize because they just have other shit going on

>>717128129
>Toriel comforted her and told her she'd have friends and she was STILL a shithead after that, especially towards Kris
I only noticed that now but holy shit, this sucks.
And the game still goes out of it's way to defend Susie like having Kris be offended in her behalf when Monster Kid makes fun of her.

>>717127982
looks like somebody struck a nerve

>>717128340
Very telling

>>717127982
>The guy in question thinks Dess is actually an unseen super duper secret Lightner named December and is the key to everything and she's FRIEND and the Knight and the main investigator of her own disappearance and Bing Bong Gaster or whatever the fuck and thinks it's proven because "everyone in the Dreemurr and Holiday families has a 4 letter nickname" even though Asgore and Carol don't, he's huffed too much schizo gas to care

what a life you lead

careful

I unironically cannot comprehend the mind of someone who got actually offended over Mike. You have to be a real joyless faggot.

>>717124919
>brownies don't go to war
The only reason (You)r culture never started a world war is because they were never important enough to be able to :)

>>717127864
Phase 1: The Hype Machine (you've made something so huge and successful that it crashes websites regularly and people spend years searching for breadcrumbs to guess what the next plot twist will be)
Phase 2: The I-See-You (you've started referencing fan theories in passing since you're TAKING TOO LONG to get meaningful updates out)
Phase 3: The I-Hate-You (you're actively shitting on fan theories that were wrong or changing plot elements just because people guessed them
Phase 4: The "I Won" (you've written something so unspeakably shitty that you are having a hard time even reading it, but you've convinced people that it will somehow all come together nicely in the end)
Phase 5: Cascade (uh oh, you've got too many irons in the fire and need to tie all this up somehow)
Phase 6: Collide (you tied it up into a fucking noose and hung yourself)
Phase 7: ???
Phase 8: The Lolcow (you're a 40-something guy dressing up as a clown on Instagram and someone bought your IP from under you, thinking they could salvage it, and people make nostalgia threads about your story on the incorrect imageboards)

>>717128595
it gets in the way of dess pseudo-incest child abuse porn

>>717128635
>Germans
>Important
Lol. As livestock perhaps.

>>717128595
>your fans spend 3 years making theory content that is essentially free advertisement for your game
>"you don't like looking at this sort of thing"

>>717128692
you tried

>>717128110

for hussiefication to fully take place the creator must be A.incredibly spiteful and B.extremely annoyed by their audience.
These are traits hussie both had leading to him derailing his own magnum opus so he could turn it into a satire of itself that mocks the audience he hated for ever daring to be invested in it at all
character arcs went all over the place none of them resolving in a satisfying way half of them being twisted into monkey paw esque versions of what the fandom wanted just to spite them for bringing an audience he hated to his niche click and point adventure game parody comic

>>717128129
>That makes it sound like every single thing is completely Susie's own fault and I feel like that's believable
Susie herself straight up admits they could've been friends earlier if she wasn't a shithead (granted, hidden behind a dialogue option few people will pick). She does regret how she acted before, her flaw is that she tries to forget about it, or at least not outwardly show that she's dwelling on it, and push forward instead. Obviously this kind of flaw is going to be one that isn't immediately obvious until someone actually points it out, but I think it's unfair to just chalk it up to bad writing. She's a hot-blooded Chariot, and she is going to keep running forward until she smashes into a wall.

>>717128129
there's some implication that susie crying on the bench happens after the 'the new new girl' noelle post
she probably realized that kris was being nice to her in his own autistic way and she blew it, why she still bullies him after that is anyones guess, she probably thought he hated her
also iirc she chills out on kris pretty fast after the locker thing, she says some superficially mean things to him but almost takes it back multiple times

>>717128138
Why would there be random humans in the woods?

>>717128701
that line was in reference to Asgore's corkboard. you know, the manifestation of him driving everyone away in his determination to solve some mystery (probably Dess)? it makes perfect sense within the context of Kris' character but you faggots are way too eager to misconstrue lines from the game as actually being written by Toby as he frothed at the mouth because his fans engaged with his mysteries and enjoyed his game

>>717128832
'the new new girl' is no longer canon, anon.

Toby should have done this instead tbsqhfam

>TOBY FOX IS SAYING I'M EVIL FOR DOING THE GONOCIDE ROUTE
>TOBY FOX IS MAKING FUN OF ME FOR MAKING THEORIES
>TOBY FOX IS SAYING I'M EVIL FOR DOING THE WEIRD ROUTE
Why do so many autists believe Toby Fox is judging them personally? They've been doing this ever since Undertale was released.

>>717128852
some people like going outside anon

>>717128909
This but instead of Tenna it's a guy with a tower-shaped head named Rook whose entire character is that he's a criminal with no redeeming qualities

>>717128907
>no longer canon
If it fits within the game's story I'm considering it canon until it's explicitly contradicted

>>717128916
homestuck trauma

>>717128907
all the blog stuff is loose canon
not 100% in line with the game but something similar seems to have happened
3 + 4 reference them a couple times

>>717128857
>the manifestation of him driving everyone away in his determination to solve some mystery
and that mystery? WHO IS MIKE

>>717128857
>that line was in reference to Asgore's corkboard. you know, the manifestation of him driving everyone away in his determination to solve some mystery (probably Dess)?
Oh yes, I'm totally gonna be thinking about all this deep lore when I reach that point and not what it actually means in the current context.

>>717128129
My take is Susie was jealous of Kris for having what she thought was a perfect mother but being ungrateful for her. That's why the jitterbug scene hit Susie so hard. There's that dialogue in chapter 3 where she feels stupid for not being friends with Kris earlier, and now she sees it was over jealousy for a mother who falls down drunk in front of her kid

>>717128832
>why she still bullies him after that is anyones guess, she probably thought he hated her
Isn't it partially because she assumes she was going to get expelled?

>>717127660
The funniest consequence of Deltarune switching to an episodic release instead of all chapters at once was everything about Mike.
>It's clear he never had a design and that he would always be referred to as offscreen by Spamton and Tenna.
>But because Chapter 2 came out by itself and Spamton's inferences were all we had to work with, theories about Mike exploded out of Toby's expectations.
>And so, come Chapter 3 & 4 finally, he has 3 bosses that just riff off of the community's expectations of Mike, and are based on various theories (Mike being the boss before Tenna's name was dropped, Friend Inside Me, and Cat Mike).
>Even the music sounds like something fans would make as theoretical Mike music (use of the unused sneaking.mp3 track, Spamton's leitmotifs, Queen's leitmotif for some reason, and Air Waves specifically having the Freedom Leitmotif despite the Mikes not being a secret boss in the traditional sense).
>And then, after all that, if you're STILL not satisfied, and you want the absolute truth about Mike, you can go all the way to the right to see the awful truth.
>It's a Mike, but there never was a "Mike".

>>717128832
>she probably realized that kris was being nice to her in his own autistic way and she blew it
>why she still bullies him after that is anyones guess
because the former probably didn't happen. she probably thought
>FUCK,, why isn't she MY mom? kris doesn't DESERVE his mom

>>717128929
Your headcanon has been rejected.

>>717129028
that means you're a surface-level consumer and that's okay, but don't get your panties in a knot when you don't know the plot intricacies.

>>717129018
I have thankfully never been exposed to Homestuck. Elaborate.

>>717128909
Buddy, I've despised roasted fish theory from the start, but acknowledging and making fun of it in the game like "Kris stop asking me to burn the officer, that's really stupid" would still be in bad taste and I'm glad there is no mention of that at all.

>>717129046
Not necessarily thinking Kris was ungrateful, but definitely jealousy. She tangentially admits it during the piano talk.

>>717129028
>all this deep lore
It isn't deep. There's an NPC that talks about it to you outside of Flower King, Rudy and Toriel are talking about it inside the Church, and you can see a corkboard if you interact with Flower King's back door. And it's all in the same chapter.
>and not what it actually means in the current context
You mean what you'd like it to mean because then it'd vindicate your idea that the Mike room was made out of PURE SPITE and Toby HATES his fans (based on nothing btw)

>>717128701
Woody Theory was glorified spam

>>717128916
This is what happens when death of the author stops being applied.

Something I find interesting is that the Mikes filling in for a guy that never existed but still needed to be "replaced" is eerily similar to the common understanding of Gaster

>>717128786
>Obviously this kind of flaw is going to be one that isn't immediately obvious until someone actually points it out, but I think it's unfair to just chalk it up to bad writing.
So, genuine question, not trying to troll here, just discussing: where is the actual line before bad writing? I know, we're only four chapters in and there's still room for a 'crash out,' but the very nature of the story and Toby's writing tells me that it's not gonna be anything permanent, just a hurdle for her to overcome and become Truly The Best 2025 of All Time or whatever, without ever really fixing or paying attention to any of the earlier events that caused that hurdle to become anything more than a slight rut in the road in the first place. If characters just ignore something, is it 'cause the characters themselves are willfully ignoring it or brushing it off, or because the AUTHOR is and is just rewriting characters to suit?

Man, I forgot where the fuck I was going with this. I'm terrible at discussion.

The male voice in the "don't spoil the game" audio was Gaster and the female voice was FRIEND

>>717128916
People are like this. They get obsessive. At least they're channeling it toward some random video game developer they'll never personally interact with. It gets really ugly when people obsess over perceived slights from someone they know irl.

>>717129360
That's not a real crab

>>717129092
that's not it. toby is obviously setting up a late game mike shit, but the massive wait for clarification has people so mindfucked that they've gone into denial and just assume it's nothing for the sake of their own mental health

I feel like a big part of the "TOBY HATES HIS FANS" mentality stems from Chapter 2 not being Kris hometown genocide Sans Rematch like everyone expected after Kris pulled out the knife

>>717129195
>There's an NPC that talks about it to you outside of Flower King, Rudy and Toriel are talking about it inside the Church, and you can see a corkboard if you interact with Flower King's back door
Exactly, all references scattered across the chapter (plus you could think the church dialogue was about his flowers)
Meanwhile the whole Mike sequence was an extremely fourth wall breaking thing about the fandom, what the fuck should I take from that line immediately?

>>717129425
That shit was so retarded. I'm so glad it didn't happen

>>717129291
all of them are gaster, gaster is an amalgamate.

>>717129170
hussie was an autistic sperg and started putting personified stereotypes of his fans into the comic as characters all of which were deliberately terrible people alongside that he would often go out of his way to fulfill theories and headcanons but in ways that made them as unsatisfying and shitty as possible
pic related specifically his speech bubbles look like 4chan reply boxes and his character traits are being an illiterate brain damaged retard and having an unreadable manner of speaking

Reminder that whatever (You) believe is a red herring

>>717128259
>the narrative is pretty clear that Susie is only as happy as she is because she's around people who are willing to forgive her when she fucks up like Lancer, Kris, and Ralsei.
Honestly, this sounds more like she's got a personality disorder and is only happy if she's around people who are willing to *ignore her faults,* not forgive her fuck-ups. The distinction is that they never actually tell her to STOP FUCKING UP, they just support her anyway. Especially Kris. The whole 'two people sharing a braincell' thing is great for the shipfags but just reads to me like two bad apples feeding each other's worst traits.

>>717129425
>Character is a prankster
>first huge prank is on the player.

>>717129425
Do those people not realize that Deltarune is still unfinished, and that things will make different sense as more context and details come out in the story? They really want Toby to have Megalo Strike Back blaring in Chapter 1?

>>717129479
Nice try but Gaster is a red herring

>>717129425
It's not this but you're close. Autists spend all day making theories and then feel betrayed when Toby doesn't canonize those theories. They think he owes them something.
Happened with hometown genocide after chapter 1, happened with Mike.

>>717129425
Still with this bullshit?
Chapter 2 was a step down because of how the plot degraded into a self-parody incapable of taking anything happening seriously (and "serious" here doesn't mean grimdark or humourless), and all the very lame and annoying romantic sequences.

>>717129535
Dess is a red hering.

>>717129535
Aw man this means Asgore isn't going to be a boss

>>717129651
You are starting to get it

>>717129436
the mike shit was so extremely off the beaten path how the fuck did you find it without knowing about the corkboards? this shit is literally pic related

>>717129581
You always were a kidder Kris

>>717129679
Another anon purified

>>717129425
>Everyone that has this point of view actually believes point of view I hate.

>>717129571
Pretty much the entirety of the game so far has been Ralsei telling Susie to stop being a monumental shithead and be a better person. He's just nice about it and has another reason for it, but he has been trying. And there's only so much Kris can do when we're in control.

>>717129707
Anon, what the fuck are you talking about
You find a huge Mike Room door in Castle Town's TV room and it has a 4 number lock right off the bat, and if you return to it after beating the chapter it shows you the code directly
You have to be deliberately skipping the Castle Town exploration segments to miss that Mike has a room

>>717129679
Asgore thing is different thoughever, Jevil told you about the Queen and indeed the Queen was the boss
The real question is what could even cause an Asgore fight, I'm sure Kris wouldn't want that

>>717129650
It takes itself as or even more seriously than chapter 1. What are you even talking about.

SNOW GRAVE
WRONG SAVE
FRIEND, HELP ME

deltarune lore/plot discussion always devolves into people getting angry about the most surface level opinions possible, most of them having never seen most of the dialogue in the game.

I swear you're all 16 or mentally retarded or something.

>>717129085
why was susie going to be expelled anyway if supposedly the only person she really picked on was kris
if she was blatantly picking on kris or even other people, why would she have been expelled if alphys covers up for her behavior when possible because she's 'the cool teacher'
if alphys is the cool teacher, how does toriel still know about susie
if she only bothered kris, why has officer undyne been told to keep an eye (and handcuffs) out for susie
if undyne has been told to watch for susie, why didn't she do anything when susie kicked the ball right into her car
how does noelle know about her and the chalk to bring her more chalk as a gift even if you don't tell noelle about the chalk
how does noelle already know about susie and the chalk in newest_girl_girl if it happens before kris and susie go get the chalk (or try to)
why does toriel have no opinion on the fact that the girl she found crying and comforted has been tormenting her remaining child until she shows up at her house and then invites her in for a succulent supper

i think i'm not smart enough to keep up with this game and that's only the first two fucking chapters i don't even want to examine 3 and 4

>>717129679
True. It's the golden flower that is the boss.

>>717129707
Buddy, it's the fucking context of the mike scene. I'm not running through everything little lore bit constantly in my mind at every moment in the game.
>whole extended scene winking at the fandom's theories
>read the corkboard flavor text
The options are:
>think about this line in the context of winking at the fandom's theories, just like the whole previous scene has been
>think of this line in the context of an implied plotline with Asgore which there has been nods here and there throughout the chapters.

>>717129869
you'd have to be deliberately skipping hometown exploration and dialogue to not know about asgore's corkboard, there's literally a mandatory part where the game goes around forcing you to talk to people, and one of them mentions asgore's weird obsessive shit.

>>717129821
Kris is also a natural shithead and has zero issue bullying as long as it's not him

>>717129958
Isn't his corkboard on the fucking side of his shop? That's far more missable than a gigantic MIKE'S ROOM door.

>>717130048
the npc in front of the shop literally tells you about the corkboard.

>>717130048
Why are you putting so much thought into obvious red herrings?

>>717129425
I don't think Toby hates his fans, I just think he doesn't really care about them unless they're Japanese. And specifically, unless they're employed by Nintendo.

>>717129283
In Deltarune's case, I think it's because the characters are brushing it off. As shown in the newest_girl_girl Sweepstakes blog, Kris is not bothered by Susie's harrassment. They stay behind in class (asleep) until Susie begins to pick on them, at which point they turn every jab of hers (catching her apple and taking a bite out of it, owning her so hard she literally runs out of the room) right back at her. Kris clearly has the upper hand, and it's clear that in Chapter 1 this is probably true as well, with them not reacting to being slammed into a locker and saving Susie in the fight against King. I think Kris knows something we don't about Susie and is willing to go along with the shit she put him through because of it. Maybe Kris knew she was just a softie, ultimately. For Ralsei, it makes sense why he brushes off her actions; by the end of Chapter 1, she's fully on board with sparing people like he asks of her, AND his existence is fully centered around serving her (the monster from the prophecy). It's his job to see her role in it through.
It could be that Toby is just writing them to have no issue with what she's doing/done, but it's hard to tell because Kris and Ralsei are the ones that had the worst of her antics and they're both very atypical. And as a fan of the games I'd like to believe that this is intentional, and it isn't just Kris and Ralsei forgetting that she was initially a dick. They just have bigger fish to fry. Kris in particular has a convoluted scheme going on with a lot of unclear variables, maybe Susie is needed for it? But I don't think it's rewriting because MK/Snowy/Temmie/Catti dislike her as well, and Noelle wanted to fuck her but was wary of her until Chapter 2.

>>717130092
Alright I stand corrected on that part but Mike is still a fuckton of a lot harder to miss.

>>717129425
>he forgot the chapter 3 minigame that explicitly references Hometown Genocide with enemy standins for all the notable hometown characters (And Catty) (toby why do you keep fucking bringing up catty)

>>717129425
secondary detected
people predicted "kris ate the pie" in the first couple of days after chapter 1 came out

>>717129980
this is true as well. hopefully at some point ONE of the characters will go "hey wow, all those pranks kris used to pull on noelle sure sound like bullying and not the 'haha he likes her' kind of childhood not-love"
maybe... maybe kris wasn't the best person

>>717129873
>queen doesn't has enough cages
>queen doesn't notice noelle under her
>berdly doesn't realise it's queen making car sounds
>queen doesn't realise the box disguise
>convenient traffic jam
>susie falling into ralsei
>trash robot deus ex machina
>that explosions gag over and over again
and other examples

Not even the Snowdin section was that zanny with Papyrus

god I want to fuck that dinosaur

>>717118965
I think she will be. That dialogue where Susie is shocked that Noelle has a tv in her room while Noelle completely misinterprets what she meant really meant stands out to me and seems like strong foreshadowing that Noelle will have a sort of wakeup call moment.

>>717130257
Most of those are just Queen. The actual point of the story is mostly about nostaliga and Noelle connecting/reconnecting with Krus and Noelle.

>>717130117
>he doesn't really care about them unless they're Japanese
I mean that's perfectly reasonable.

>>717123537
When you are in the jar, there is no escape.

>>717130145
>MK/Snowy/Temmie/Catti dislike her as well,
Worthless background NPCs. Utterly irrelevant to the story other than to use as a punching bag to make Susie look cool (Kris being offended for her if MK asks, Susie scaring them at the bunker, Catti getting told to fuck off, Temmie and the hard-boiled eg). Free EXP.

>>717128651
I think we're already got a little bit of phase 3 in the new release, and I predict we will be at phase 5 by the end of Chapter 5 if the direction of the game really takes a huge shift like many expect.
>>717128756
>half of them being twisted into monkey paw esque versions of what the fandom wanted
Soriel was just made canon is the worst possible way

>>717130257
>lancer making you fight 3 hathys with the most unchallenging attack pattern ever, ralsei saying it's like having 3 glasses of milk for dinner and lancer thinking that's normal
>c. round "violently attacking" when it's just skipping joyfully
>tree stump salsa
>star walker
>k. round drinking an almond milk png to recover hp
>lancer meme face
>eating moss
>rouxls kaard's "puzzles"
>susie throwing ralsei at k. round

>>717130252
>kris did that to you, damn that sucks
>yeah, i really miss those pranks faha!

>>717130361

>>717130437
I said plot, not story.

>>717129425
Any body with a brain saw the pie bit coming
From the bits in chapter 1 where we learn about Kris and he acts without input, it's easy to tell he's not a fuckin psycho

>>717130117
Common Toby W.

>>717130598
>Kris's pranks weren't pranks, they were outright malicious bullying
>but Noelle was always fine with it because she's certifiably broken in the brain and later in life would discover she gets off to that kind of thing
>as such no one ever suspected any actual foul play going on... except Dess, who was written out of reality for her crime of defending Noelle
At last, I truly see.

>>717130252
Forcefield scene on Normal route shows that Noelle can take Kris' pranks in stride. Same thing with Susie bullying Kris - he can easily handle it.

>>717130252
Issue is Noelle did enjoy them cause she's a freak and nobody other than Dess seemed to punish him to any major degree.

I personally would have beat the shit out of him. But that's why I don't deal with kids.

>>717130578
Most are a combination of Lancer goofying around, quick gags and secret side stuff. Only Rouxls is an example of chapter 2 style bullshit that gets in the way of the main story, and he didn't overstay his welcome there.

I don't even dislike chapter 2, I just think it was a let down.

>>717130683
Half the plot is that as well. Queen is a silly villain since it's meant to be the fun adventure.

>>717130598
>Kris was the one who turned Noelle into a masochist

>>717130773
>>717130906
the big brain player reads this and sees it as commentary on the actual nature of abusive relationships and how fucked up personalities can feed each other, or even how women dream of abuse and rape as a standard course of action
the truly elevated individual knows that's bullshit and toby just thinks submissive dykes are hot

red herrings: the game

>>717130714
>Any body with a brain saw the pie bit coming
you have to be 18 to post here

>>717131007
Nah.

Toby hates feminine women. Noelle is weak and pathetic compared to awesome tomboys.

>>717130906
I'm curious if Kris kept up the pranks after Dess disappeared. I'm guessing not. Because it felt like it was a game to him: he knows Noelle likes being comforted after being scared, so scaring her and letting Dess defend her was fun. He never went too far, which is probably also why he recognizes that Susie's attitude is just a front.

>>717129980
He didn't even care about being "bullied" by Susie, though. If anything, he thought she was cooler from it

>>717131029
And yet herring is obviously blue.

>>717131029
Toby is such a red herring expectation subverrter
I loved when he made Sans say "you're gonna have a bad time" in Snowdin in genocide and then never followed up on it because it'd be too obvious for him to have a boss fight after that

>>717130978
Chapter 1's plot was "get past King and his forces, seal the fountain and go back to the school", and it was played very straight forward.

Chapter 2 has Queen barely try to get her plans to succeed, which is why Spamton ended up being the most memorable villain.

>>717131124
He seemed to stop and he seems less comfortable with his pranks nowadays. Shadow mantle implie he has sadistic tendecies that he's trying to supress.

>>717125013
Frenzied Flame is the good ending though?

>>717130575
>Soriel was just made canon is the worst possible way
fucking hell we really are on the Hussie route, aren't we

>>717131124
>if Kris kept up the pranks after Dess disappeared. I'm guessing not.
I imagine he felt somehow responsible for what happened to Dess, so naturally he swore off the pranks completely (and went into deep depression and became suicidal). His suicidal tendencies also give another reason why he is not scared of Susie.

>>717131161
He did seem to take genuine offense at Susie's comment. Either that or he agreed with it.

>>717131378
We'll never know what Kris actually said in that blog post because Toby didn't actually write anything for it and it's just a sorta "yeah Kris CAN make her go away, just chooses not to" example scenario. But I don't think it was agreeing with her because that would not have made her run off with her tail between her legs, if anything she'd have pressed it further.

>>717131479
susie doesn't have a mother

>>717131286
>>717130575
>>717128651
Suselle will be final deciding factor. If he pushes on with it after every Krusie moment in chapter 4 and "I won" tweet, then he officially went Hussie.

>>717131186
>Toriel and Flowey BOTH made people expect the underground to be a harsh place.
>It takes some time to clearly see how much of a pushover >Papyrus is.
>Undyne turns out to be a dork and not as much of a chad knight.
>Alphys was lying about everything and was more than just an anxious nerd archetype. Mettaton was just pretending to be a killer robot.
>Asgore flips around two very different perceptions of him
>The story about the royal kids told to you by the monsters was missing a lot of key details that completely change what it means
>Sans was a lot tougher that he seems at first

Susie lives with an uncle who beats and rapes the shit out of her everyday.

>>717131545
And what if he pushes on with both, feeding both Krusie and Suselle shiptards with equal bait every chapter like he has so far, to keep that slugout going on as long as possible (and thus keeping those fans engaged as long as possible)?

>>717131545
>"I won" tweet
that was just a "people understand my character to a fucking tee" thing

>>717131186
the only red herring is the red headband

>>717131479
I don't know. I would be pretty disturbed if I told somebody the world would be a better place without them and they agree.

>>717131656
why not write that. there's no 140 character limit anymore. "i won" sounds fucking stupid

>>717131690
Carol is one as well.

>>717131649
It has to end at some point. But basically any outcome that doesn't ends with explicit Suselle is fine.

>>717131702
>Susie casually talks about stabbing herself and cleaning up bloodstains but Kris saying "yeah" is enough to make her run off
BRAVO

>>717131739
Haven't you noticed that Toby talks like a fucking weirdo?

>>717131739
it was supposed to be funny, like in a "mastermind" sort of way. "you fools, you're doing what i wanted before i even told you to!". you know?

>>717131739
Because he wrote that, you retard, read the full tweet.

>>717131831
>But basically any outcome that doesn't ends with explicit...
is COWARDLY, and shows the entire subplot(s) have been nothing but fapbait to attract the most annoying kind of autists (an anon said the other day that shipfags are like powerlevel fags but without the dragonballs and that was pretty funny to me).

>>717131608
Those served a purpose of telling an interesting story and giving the characters more depth than what you initially assume them to be
Making Gaster a shitpost and mocking his fans for getting engaged in a decade-long mystery box event (like herringtards actually believe) would not do any of that

>All these theories and ramblings
Holy fuck did the CIA invaded here or something?

>>717127039
Speaking of

>>717131061
>Ha got his ass with the minor typo
Nice

>>717131956
>shipfags are like powerlevel fags but without the dragonballs
I've said they feel like football fans yelling at each other about which team scors the most fackin goals but that's a really good analogy too

>>717131959
I enjoyed most of the rug pulls in UT, but now I believe this was pure luck + not being famous