What's the biggest whiplash you experienced between a game's reputation and its actual quality

>finally play the 10/10 indie darling that's on every "best game ever" list
>it's just a fucking tumblr webcomic in VN format with some stupid bullet hell sections
I already didn't trust journo and normgroid vidya opinions but this shit made me write them off for good

>>717251952 (OP)
Add some more buzzwords, why don't you? You used few this time.

>>717252151
They're not even trying anymore, he didn't even use the word "demoralizing".

>>717252151
You don't even understand what buzzwords are

we get it you are a big mad baby loser
waaa waaaa

i agree with OP, undertale (the standalone game) doesnt break higher than a strong 6 - light 7

>>717251952 (OP)
Behold as I engage with your thread and not your image.
The answer I'd say is Red Dead Redemption 2. I heard it hyped up as this great epic tale of action and intrigue, but.. it's almost entirely just walking alongside NPCs while they talk at you. The combat is static auto-aim, the world is huge and empty, and the characters are mundane and expected tropes.
I mean, you could say I should've expected as such from Rockstar, that they don't actually break any molds, and in fact they live their molds to a T, but, at least fucking GTA has cars you can roll around in for fun. The sandbox experience of GTA retains its appeal. Horses are not nearly as engaging.

>>717253130
You agree that a 10/10 being 6/10 is your "biggest whiplash"? Have you not experienced much in the way of dissonance?

>>717251952 (OP)
It's truly a glorified graphic novel with a shitty neurotic fanbase. I remember back around 2016 one of my favorite small youtuber of my country tried to played it and gave up mid-run, just because the stream chat was in constant flame war over what path to choose muh genocide muh peaceful, because he was known to not replay games for multiple endings so the other guys went into competition. He also got very bored at the pacing and puzzles.

It makes people retarded, and managed to push away even those into underground JRPG horror games like ao oni and mad father.

>>717253276
A game that's regularly claimed to be one of the best games of all time actually being 6/10 is one of the biggest whiplashes you can experience in vidya, yes

>>717251952 (OP)
Probably Cyberpunk. People were shitting on it and said it was a complete failure. But then I tried it and it was awesome.

>>717252326
tumblr, when used like this, is a buzzword.

It peaked when flowey calls you out for save scumming
Then again on sans battle
Rest is forgettable
Deltarune does meta shit way better than Undertale

Definitely Witcher 3

>>717251952 (OP)
Outer Wilds
I found people that would suck off this game like, they'd pay $50k for it willingly.

>>717256010
It's definitely overrated but it's a solid 7.5

>>717252151
Not an argument

>>717256624
Outer Wilds is good fuck off

>>717259030
Babby's first puzzle game

>>717251952 (OP)
Another incel filtered

>>717254907
You've played so few videogames. Let me guess, you're a PS360 veteran? Started with the classics, did you?

>>717261319
Anon.. the people who thought UT was the greatest thing ever were, at the time, 13 year old kids who played nothing but PS360 shootans and got their minds blown by a quirky JRPG being so novel to them

>>717251952 (OP)
filtered

>>717251952 (OP)
People liked the jokes, the music, and the Warioware microgames. I replayed this just this weekend for the first time in 10 years and it was better than I remembered. Moving onto Deltarune soon.

>>717261682
That being said it’s a 7/10.

>>717251952 (OP)
>IT IS LE TUMBLR
okay boomer

>>717261682
>>717261791
I like Undertale overall, and I'll set my cynicism aside. But the jokes really are not that good, Sans' skeleton puns are not funny, it's just his sprite and his memey status that makes you think that. Recite his bone jokes to anyone that isn't an undertale fan, they won't laugh. Also the rest are just poorly aged "ARENT I QUIRKY XD" redditisms. Like the doggos, bork bork woof woof shit, there's so much of those. And girls being girlbosses/big man being an actual babyfaced pussy are still treated by the game as novelties so it's really behind the times. Those arent impressive and the game isn't funny at all. But the music is definitely great.

>>717262019
Yeah I hate the game’s obsession with petting dogs and awkward flirting too.

I like undertale just fine but I'm 99% sure the idea that it's a 10/10 flawless masterpiece is just done to appease its absolutely rabid fanbase. Even its creator has a lot of issues with it and readily admits that he cut corners on a lot of stuff.

>>717251952 (OP)
Bioshock Infinite and it's not even close. I consider it like a 6/10 game with a 3/10 story that was being praised like it was the second coming of Christ on release. Sentiment's changed a lot sense then but at the time I felt like everyone was taking crazy pills. Undertale is still somewhere between a 7/10 to 8/10 game to me so the whiplash isn't that bad.

>>717263719
Infinite's reputation actually changed to reflect the hype factor, UT is still being talked about as a worthwhile game instead of a passing curiosity that it is

>>717251952 (OP)
>We tricked another retard into buying a tranny tumblr game
lmao get owned nerd!

>>717261052
the puzzle wasnt the entire point of the game

Everybody be cool, this is the thread now!

>>717267559
tumblr behavior

>>717257690
/100

>>717255950
>when flowey calls you out for save scumming
Doesn't happen if you're not a retarded shitter

>Then again on sans battle
Who the fuck is replaying the entire dogshit game again, farming battles in each zone, just for two fights that are actually hard? Just play a battle simulator for these two shit fights if you really must experience them and move on

>>717251952 (OP)
I disagree, Undertale itself is a good game that isn't too offensive due to its short longevity. Deltarune however is literally hitting every bad thing all at once
>High school setting
>Prophecy that the heroes need to defy
>Emasculation of the player character in favor of a strong and independent woman
>Power of friendship
>Lesbians
>Trannies

>>717255950
>Deltarune does meta shit way better than Undertale
Lmfao what? The meta elements are touched on for 5 minutes at the beginning of the game and never anywhere else. The SOUL may as well not have any connection to the 'real world' because its plot impact doesnt change regardless.

>>717255950
>>717268326
Deltarune unironically feels like it's trying to take a massive dump on the fanbase's autism but they're too caught up in sucking each other's dicks to notice it.

>>717251952 (OP)
It's a children's game. Particularly for the left leaning ones.

>>717261682
Warioware you learn the same games and master them and they are actually interesting and creative. Undertale is just random bullshit patterns slopped together that will see you once or twice a playthrough and it doesn't even matter because it refills your HP at save point every five minutes and you can spam HP refills with no downside. The whole game is so braindead and shallow.

Literally the only two fights that require a tiny modicum of effort are Sans and Udyne on Genocide.

>>717263719
Absolutely this. It's not even close

>>717251952 (OP)
>What's the biggest whiplash you experienced between a game's reputation and its actual quality
GTA. As in, all of them.

Like, I get it, it was the first "real sandbox. But most of the games are honestly shocking bad when it comes to actual design. Comparing it to other proto sandboxes like Morrowind or Star Control 2 the game is downright pathetic. Even 4, which I think was at least decent gameplay wise, suffers from just having no pacing after the early parts.

>>717269292
>Morrowind
Retard. Opinion discarded

>>717262568
I think it's just the whiplash of getting a very tight well paced and self contained game in a era where that was becoming a rarity(This weak peak sandbox fatigue) was such a shock it made people view the game as perfect. It really can't be overstated how dire of a state the game industry was in in 2015, it's why something like Nier Automata was also considered a unprecedent masterpiece for having ideas.

>>717263719
Infinite probably had one of the biggest falls. Again, I would say the early 2010's was goddamn dire and even if AAA games as a whole are arguably in a worse place now the state of the industry as a whole was far worse back then.

>>717251952 (OP)
It's a very touching story. Yes, it has all that Earthbound subversiveness, perhaps even going the extra mile, but it's not at the sacrifice of having a compelling well-paced story. Perhaps the fact that the story is compelling is itself an act of subversion.

>>717263719
This, /v/ for once felt like an island of sanity for panning the game and breaking down why its story was bad, even as critics were screaming that it was the greatest story ever put to a video game ever. I don't think there's been anything more cathartic than watching general opinions and even critic opinions flip on it over the years. That was some mass psychosis shit.

>>717269464
Morrowind is flawed as fuck but as a sandbox it's honestly fairly excellent in the way it guides the player. Though anything nice I have to say about the game largely comes with the caveat that I am 100% sure it was a lucky accident.

>>717269710
2013 was a very, VERY bad time for video game writing. This was the time period when Farcry 3 and Deus Ex Human revolution were considered to be abnormally well written. Infinite got so much mileage out of actually trying to do something that most people that weren't incredibly deep into the indie sphere fell over themselves praising it.

>>717270059
True but the critics praising its story as the best ever was some real bullshit even in that context. Some of them being the same critics that had reviewed games like fucking Silent Hill 2 in the past.

>>717268237
>Trannies
[citation needed]

>>717270262
Agree. Most of them even seem to kind of regret it in hindsight. It's pretty amazing. Only game that is kind of comparable to me is Skyrim but even then I feel most people still like Skyrim (And people that don't never liked it).

>>717267559
Hows your aids treating you

>>717268469
Deltarune is a love letter to Undertale.

>>717270724
Pretty good. Mostly when I'm spreading it to white children and thereby ensuring the death of the white race and a bright future in which Aryan genes are extinct.

>>717271318
It's a love letter but also does fuck around. Just look at the treatment of Sans.

>>717271318
It feels more like it's shitting on Undertale fanworks to me. Everything from the high school setting to extra edgy characters.

>>717266225
You live to spite
Why are you like this frogposter?

>>717271457
>Just look at the treatment of Sans.
He's fine. People are just overreacting to it. It's the opposite of the reactions to Kris at the end of Chapter 1.
>>717271568
I don't think that, either. Gerson's entire character is basically saying "making your own works even if they suck".

I think people just appreciated that it was a very handmade experience by a guy who clearly was passionate about it. Some things are just special, it was a game people needed. It's hard to go out into a world that's ugly and still show love for others.

>>717251952 (OP)
Undertale's a 6-7/10 game with a decent concept carrying it. I'd hardly call it a massive case of whiplash though, that'd be something that is genuinely dogshit across the board instead of just mediocre.

>>717271941
You are aware we're talking about a lolsorandom JRPG parody by a westoid, it was basically an attack on JRPG sincerity by someone who's part of the same tumblr stock that killed video games

>>717272289
Sometimes things seem cliche in the past because they were so influential they became part of the standard, but it was a novel experience and charming.

>>717270290
Kris.

>>717272289
>someone that made a good videogame killed videogames

>>717251952 (OP)
2008 when I played Mass Effect 1 after all my friends praised it and I enjoyed Jade Empire enough to give it a try.

What the hell did everyone see in that pile of shit?
>questionably dated graphics even at launch
>awful and lazy gameplay design that felt like an after thought
>the worse romance set ups I had ever experienced at the time
>retarded "we are so above you you never understand us" plot
>none of what you did in game matter, all the "choices" in the game were just "dude, next game, trust us"

I think the only things it did decent/right was good voice performances, the sex scene and sense of scale, but that's nothing impressive even in the mid 2000s.

>>717271818
Yeah, but it feels very deliberate.

>>717273228
Jade Empire also leaned cartoonishly into the orientalism, I bet Chinese people who play it think it's wack.

>>717272289
>about a lolsorandom JRPG parody by a westoid
It's literally a Siginifincalty more genuine version of Touhou. It being earthbound inspired is only something people with a surface level understanding of Weeb games think.

>Gameplay
Touhou.
>Music
Touhou.
>Setting
Touhou.

Mother 3 is also a MUCH bigger influence than Earthbound. But Journalists either have not played it or can't admit they used a emulator.

>>717251952 (OP)
Undertale goes from a 6/10 to a 9/10 on genocide route.

>>717273228
I have a lot of fondness for basically being the last real attempt to make a Star Trek esque space opera work with modern values as well as make a genuine rpg/third person shooter hybrid but Mass Effect 1 is frankly a rather awkward game and I get why many people didn't get into it.

If it wasn't for 2 being a massive step back in the story department I can see why people prefer it.

>>717273995
I would say the endings as a whole. All of the final bosses are legendary.

>>717273770
Agreed but it came together well enough I could get over that. The story beats worked, choices had better impact to what happen in the world and things like loyalties and romances had more going on than just "go talk to them" and while the gameplay was nothing amazing it was serviceable and I understood what it was trying to do unlike ME1s weird shake cam shooting and 0 balance on powers. I think the people that like ME1 just like a game that was basically a step above a VN in terms of gameplay because ME2 was a much better product across the board even with the very weak main plot.

>>717274113
Pacifist route is cringe.

>>717274025
I hear this "like Star Trek" but in what way? I felt it was nothing like Star Trek and felt more like a mix of Firefly and Farescape, nothing about it had the "go explore and meet new worlds" effect that Start Trek had. Hell the first KotoR was a better Star Trek game than Mass Effect 1 was. Within the first two hours you are racing some doomsday clock event in a basically established universe.

>>717261319
I've no idea what you're trying to say if you won't say anything-if you play more games you'll run into 4/10s, yes. Yet the point is those 4/10s aren't heralded as the best games, it would be weird if they were. They're forgotten by anybody.

>>717273147
He came from the same stock of people that killed video games i.e. tumblr, but yeah he himself is also responsible for the massive drop in quality standards for indie games

>>717274113
>get to the final boss
>it's the gay flower from the beginning that is le ebil edgelord uberdemon
>hahaha I deleted your save file!!!
>oh wow he is doing a lot of damage, this might be difficult
>nevermind jk, I'm actually invincible and just arbitrarily stay at 1hp no matter how many times he hits me, so I could just afk for the first five minutes of the fight and still win
>the brief part where you can actually take damage is so clearly telegraphed because the attacks deal way less damage and you have a flood of health items filling the screen
>even if you do die, you can just instantly reload your (supposedly deleted) save
>after you kill him, the save file just goes back to normal and you can reload it before the fight
just a complete illusion of bullshit. Once you see through, it's just fucking lame.

>>717257730
not with your attitude

>>717272289
trying too hard

>>717272289
>it was basically an attack on JRPG
IDK man, the actual Japs seemed to love it the same as actual JRPGs. They might actually like it more than the west does.

Outer Wilds - walking simulator with reddit writing.
Disco Elysium - point&click adventure with resetera writing.

>>717274252
I agree Mass Effect 2 is probably a better game overall, but I do resent a lot of it's choices. Though 3 existing certainly doesn't help matters.

In general my feelings on Mass Effect are pretty mixed. As a whole I don't think the trilogy really works, but I admire it's ambition and like a lot of what it tried to do. It coming out in a pretty bad period for video games certainly doesn't help matters.

>>717275270
but metadoom is epic

>>717275481
Japs are a cuck nation

>>717262016
>muh xitter
ok zoomer

>>717272289
Japan doesn't see it as a takedown of JRPGs, so why would I?

>>717274583
Mostly insofar that it was a attempt to create a future that, while clearly having some dark sides, was very much a place to escape to and felt realistic.

>nothing about it had the "go explore and meet new worlds" effect that Start Trek had
It tried with the Mako and while I don't think it really worked I do think the effect was stronger than 2 and 3, which were just full on Firefly and Farscape.

I feel like 4chang killed tumblr so the tumblr refugees came here to promote home stuck and undertale and other tumblr things, just like reddit comes here to promote borderlands

>>717275098
You can totally die during the fight and unless you are a natural at bullet hell games you probably will. Entire thing is also a incredible emotional roller-coaster.


>>717274516
True labs is awesome and if you have a heart the ending is great.

Udershit and Deltashit are 5/10 games at best
Only underage retards think highly of them

>>717275029
>tumblr killed video games
No?
>toby fox is responsible for worse indie games existing
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>717275689
see >>717275615
They also think it's fine to import niggers to fuck their women but that doesn't mean you have to agree with them

>>717275029
>He came from the same stock of people that killed video games
Whites.

video games should be made by Japs only. Western influence is a plague and has been since Atari.

>>717275729
Tumblr killed itself by trying to ban porn at the behest of the yahoos who bought them.
/v/ liked Undertale before Tumblr did.

>>717275813
>No?
Yes, the SJW/Kotaku/feminist agenda etc that killed games has its roots in tumblr
>What the fuck are you talking about?
I'm talking about him lowering standards for what constitutes an indie game which directly resulted in an across the board drop in indie game quality

>>717275869
It is, actually.

One day you'll have the maturity to understand that.

>>717275869
But it's actually obvious how importing jeets is damaging Japan, and it's not obvious how Undertale "damages" JRPGs as a genre.

>>717275897
Agreed, Undertale shouldn't exist

>>717275995
>UTfags are actual unironical race cuck fags
You know what, I'm not surprised

>>717275796
>Entire thing is also a incredible emotional roller-coaster.
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

fucking faggot

>>717251952 (OP)
Undertale objectively is good cause you can just play the genocide run, also the boss fights are great

>>717275796
you can only die in the very last part of the fight, at every other part you remain at 1HP.

>>717275987
>Yes, the SJW/Kotaku/feminist agenda etc that killed games has its roots in tumblr
You are unironically the cancer that killed games for blaming SJW.

>I'm talking about him lowering standards for what constitutes an indie game
Indie games are games without a publisher. Got fuck all to do with standards.

>>717276072
>People should be free to pick their own destiny.
>Unless I disagree
Nationalists are subhumans and should be hanged.

>>717275987
Agreed fully
We had a string of legendary indie games in the early 2010s like Binding of Isaac, Minecraft, Terraria, but when Five Nights at Freddy's and Undertale exploded in popularity indie games have generally been worse in quality ever since
There are of course gems that slip through the cracks like Factorio though

>>717276085
>redditbob
sperg

>>717251952 (OP)
This entire series fucking sucks, people just like it because of a few character designs and they couldn't even get that right in the third one. I'd rather just goon off to the promo art than actually play any of the games.

>>717275810
Objectively correct

>>717276168
No? You can totally die. It just takes longer than your HP bar implies.

>>717276069
I would sacrifice Undertale to remove all western influences from gaming. It's been a consistent cancer.

>>717276130
If Fallout New Vegas didn't let you massacre annoying NPCs I would dislike it a lot more, and its the reason I hate modern Bethesda games for making certain NPCs unkillable. Undertale operates on the same logic of letting you kill anyone but the game has the audacity of trying to make you feel bad about it

>>717275987
>the SJW/Kotaku/feminist agenda etc that killed games has its roots in tumblr
And Undertale has something to do with this because...?
>him lowering standards for what constitutes an indie game
By releasing a game that fit within the existing standards for what constitutes an indie game? I don't understand.

>>717276172
Anon you have exposed yourself as an unironic cuckold, I don't understand why you think anyone is going to take your views seriously

>>717276263
New Vegas also tries to make you feel bad for killing NPC's.

>>717263719
It was only praised by normalfags and journos, but even then everyone forgot about it in one year
same thing with The Last of Us

>>717276172
I love international anything but this reeks of интepнeт-иccлeдoвaтeльcкoe aгeнтcтвo

>>717276358
Nationalists are subhumans and their opinions are worth less than actual humans like me by default. Looking forward to seeing you get tortured in Nuremberg.

>>717276361
Its not as brazen. The ending slides are pretty objective in what happens. Massacre the Followers and medical care in Freeside goes to shit. Toby Fox literally self inserts into his game for 5 minutes to say 'HAHAHAH, YOU ARE A HORRIBLE, FUCKED UP PERSON AND YOU ARE EVIL FOR PLAYING MY GAME!!! BUT I'M NOT EVIL FOR MAKING IT AND SELLING IT THOUGH, NOT AT ALL!'. Same bullshit that Spec Ops: The Line pulled.

>>717276241
well I was deliberately going out of my way to take damage at 1HP to see why it wasn't going down, and got hit like 5+ times at 1HP so just assumed you couldn't die. That's kinda retarded.

>>717276434
Nationalists are the only people who have a winning ideology. Even the USSR reverted to nationalism once its existence was tested by Germany and the United States. Your ideology is cancerous to any society and its the reason why the Pax Americana is dying.

>>717276515
> Toby Fox literally self inserts into his game for 5 minutes to say 'HAHAHAH, YOU ARE A HORRIBLE, FUCKED UP PERSON AND YOU ARE EVIL FOR PLAYING MY GAME!!! BUT I'M NOT EVIL FOR MAKING IT AND SELLING IT THOUGH, NOT AT ALL!'.
No? Who?

>>717251952 (OP)
>tumblr webcomic in vn format
Genuinely means nothing. This combination of words doesn't mean anything at all.
Well, "tumblr" manages to evoke some kind of image. It's got a pretty strong precedent.

"Webcomic VN format" doesn't fucking mean anything. This shit is like someone who has only vaguely been told what a video game is like trying to come up with complaints that real gamers would make. Webcomic fucking VN. So it's got visuals and fucking text? Are you a fucking retard?

>>717276345
>And Undertale has something to do with this because...?
It was born from the same stock, one of the reasons Toby made games is "lack of homosexual character representation" which is objectively a wrong reason to make games

>By releasing a game that fit within the existing standards for what constitutes an indie game?
By releasing a game that massively reduced the standards for what constitutes a complete game worth paying money for, consider that at one point Cave Story was released for free without requiring fan funding through Kickstarter

>>717276515
The characters get sad when you kill them. The reason they do this is so that people who still care how the characters feel get upset when trying to kill them.
Toby Fox does not care how you treat characters in video games. He wants you to not make yourself miserable in the pursuit of "finishing the game".

>>717276593
They genocided all nationalist identities and replaced it with loyalty to soviets. It's akin to people going into France and genociding everybody who objects until they no longer view themselves as France.

>>717275637
nothing wrong with being a zoomer
it is however a bad thing being a boomer, stuck in the past and not allowing progress to be made.

>>717276591
It's mostly to keep the tension going. It's really not that obvious and unless you are deliberately fucking up you are pretty unlikely to notice.

>>717276675
Flowey. The fact that Flowey himself is an unrepentant killer that doesn't care about anyone's opinions of him because he can just reset means that him saying this only comes off as some kind of meta commentary trying to scold you for playing the game wrong. And half of Sans' dialogue in his fight is vaguely meta-aware dialogue about the motivation that the player has in committing genocide. Deltarune isn't as upfront about it but the Player in the Weird Route commits a far lesser crime and yet is considered pure evil, more so than Kris, the person who is working with a serial murderer and kidnapper.

>>717276719
>one of the reasons Toby made games is "lack of homosexual character representation"
That was a joke calling the protagonist of the Halloween hack (and thus the player) gay.
>a game that massively reduced the standards for what constitutes a complete game worth paying money for
Huh, what game? As far as I know he's behind two and neither fits that description.
>consider that at one point Cave Story was released for free without requiring fan funding through Kickstarter
Yeah? What's your point, that everything that isn't objectively better than Cave Story has to be released for free?

>>717276802
Bullshit. They genocided NON-RUSSIAN nationalist identities like Ukrainian because Ukrainian nationalism was used as a tool by countries such as Germany and Poland to try and stab at Russia in WW1 and its immediate aftermath. Stalin became a prolific Russian nationalist in his later years and is quoted to have said that 'If the Slav people are united, no one will dare move a finger against them'.

>>717276886
>take like 2 hits and you are down to 1hp
>from there you can take like 10+ hits before dying
How much of a retarded NPC do you have to be to "not notice" that????

>>717276985
>That was a joke calling the protagonist of the Halloween hack (and thus the player) gay.
No it's not, that comment was about Dr. Andonuts.

>>717276765
>The characters get sad when you kill them
But why? I'm doing what is beneficial for me.

>>717277039
They also genocided Russian identities. Literally replaced all of it with St Peterburg Bourgeois. Why do you think they exterminated local power brokers, the nobility, and the monarchy?

>>717252224
powerful pic

>>717276683
>Genuinely means nothing. This combination of words doesn't mean anything at all.
It does though, it means "Homestuck with furries but videogame"

>"Webcomic VN format" doesn't fucking mean anything
It does though, you know those shovelware movie adaptation games that just play scenes from the movie in between some unrelated gameplay like match 3 or whatever? It means that UT is just looking at a tumblr webcomic punctuated with bullet hell sections the same way

>lowering standards
>guilty of ruining indie gaming
not quoting you, you know who you are
if you don't like how the gaming scene is shaping, learn to code, learn to draw, learn to write, learn to compose and make a game the way you want, nobody is forcing you to follow any rules
and if you can't make it big, don't blame other devs for your own failure

>>717275923
O right the porn ban i do remember my sister frequenting tumblr for gay fanfiction and then suddenly never using tumblr again
Weird

>>717277132
Oh, the monarchy and nobility, most of whom were of some kind of German origin? In most of Stalin's speeches he makes specific reference to Russia as the leading nation in the USSR. Russian nationalism wasn't destroyed, it just became synonymous with Soviet nationalism. Ukraine's entire national identity is based off of opposition to Polish and Russian rule so they couldn't be integrated into this new nationalism. Why do you think nowadays, during the Russo-Ukrainian war, Russian soldiers will fly Tsarist and Communist flags side by side? Both became fundamental to the Russian identity.

>>717276928
The whole point of Flowey is that he did feel bad killing everyone, he just had literally nothing else to do after a point, and seeing new things was more worth it to him than keeping to his morals.
This is meant to parallel players who stick with a game long past when they enjoy it just because they know there's "more game".
If you read it as moralizing about killing NPCs, you're a retard.

>>717276928
Flowey dialogue is mostly meant to mirror the player and give his backstory. The closest it ever gets to genuine calling you out is him basically calling out people who watch the genocide route on youtube.

>half of Sans' dialogue in his fight is vaguely meta-aware dialogue about the motivation that the player has in committing genocide.
His dialogue ISN'T actually about how you are a bad person. It basically points out that you are doing this mostly just because you can since no sane person would pick the Genocide run as their first route. It's if anything a callout against completionism rather than a personal judgement of you morally.

>>717253240
I'm starting my first play through and was starting to realize this was the case. I do kinda like the world tho... I like camping and fishing irl tho

>>717277126
Why do people who claim to only be interested in what benefits them care about how the characters feel once the characters start getting sad?

>>717277292
>Oh, the monarchy and nobility, most of whom were of some kind of German origin?
Which was a part of Russian identity. Thus it was a genocide of Russian identity.

>In most of Stalin's speeches he makes specific reference to Russia as the leading nation in the USSR.
He was a Georgian. To whatever extent he played on Russian Nationalism it was only something he recreated after the actual nationalists were all mass executed like the subhumans they are. Basically Nationalism according to Stalin just meant doing what Stalin, not a Russian, wanted.

If you want to argue this is good, I agree. Massacre all nationalists, throw their corpses in a mass grave. Then create a new kind of nationalism that is totally pro migration, pro globalhomo, and anti whiteness to replace it. Make it a point of national pride in western countries to hate white people and be pro lgbtq.

>>717253240
The gameplay is pretty boring I'd have to agree, I like the characters though even if they are tropey. Tropey characters have never bothered me personally.

>>717251952 (OP)
Undertale is the ~le quirky Earthbound clone but for zoomers and has never been anything beyond that

>>717277613
It's Touhou but genuine.

>>717251952 (OP)
Asscreed 4

>>717277554
>Massacre all nationalists, throw their corpses in a mass grave. Then create a new kind of nationalism that is totally pro migration, pro globalhomo, and anti whiteness to replace it. Make it a point of national pride in western countries to hate white people and be pro lgbtq.
Most sane UT fan

Do you think he ever read Handplates?

>>717277638
>it's garbage but genuine
I have to agree.

>>717277665
Nationalists are subumans and deserve the mass grave.

>>717276683
he's a storylet who can't comprehend games having story, calls it "VN". sorry pal, FFV to 7 and X? Have story.

>>717277706
>Touhou is garbadge
Can't object to that.

>>717277638
Touhou is genuine, it's just laid back.

>>717251952 (OP)
You had to be there and play blind, 30% of what makes it good is that you don't see it coming

>>717251952 (OP)

>>717251952 (OP)
Runescape

>>717277554
>Which was a part of Russian identity
And so was the Soviet Union and the Great PATRIOTIC War. Do you even know a thing about Eastern Europe?
>He was a Georgian
Who became a virulent Russian nationalist.
>It was only something he recreated after the actual nationalists were all mass executed
Ah yes, the nationalists such as Vlazov who worked with the German invaders who were massacring Slavic civilians.
>Nationalism according to Stalin just meant doing what Stalin, not a Russian, wanted.
Is this not exactly what the Russian monarchy did? Replace Stalin with the Tsar. The Tsar wasn't a Russian either. But Stalin LITERALLY PIONEERED THE IDEA OF 'socialism in one country', and making the USSR a powerful nation and not bothering with internationalism unless it directly benefitted the interests of Russia.
>Then create a new kind of nationalism that is totally pro migration, pro globalhomo, and anti whiteness to replace it
Which was the opposite of Soviet communism. In fact, it was Stalin who made Ukraine and Poland WHITE ETHNOSTATES by deporting the Tatars and engaging in population exchanges between the two in order to make a functionally 100% Polish Polish state and 100% East Slavic Ukrainian state. Which proves my entire point that EVERYONE becomes a nationalist at some point in order to survive as a nation. Those who preach your ideology wither and die and are conquered by more powerful nations. You're just too retarded to see it.

>>717277831
Nah, it's the opposite of genuine.

>>717276765
>The characters get sad when you kill them
It's the Demon Slayer formula. Complete hack writing without any emotional depth or sincerity to it.

>>717277985
>And so was the Soviet Union and the Great PATRIOTIC War.
It became part of the new one. One founded upon genociding nationalists, and therefore better.

>Who became a virulent Russian nationalist.
If you believe Stalin was anything other than Pro Stalin you are so laughable prone to believing propaganda you should officially be classified for special needs.

>Ah yes, the nationalists such as Vlazov who worked with the German invaders who were massacring Slavic civilians.
Obviously. They are scum and deserved to die. Point being they were hunted down like animals.

>Is this not exactly what the Russian monarchy did?
Of course not. the Russian Monarchy was largely depended on the local nobility and Russian government structures. USSR destroyed those and replaced them.

>In fact, it was Stalin who made Ukraine and Poland WHITE ETHNOSTATES by deporting the Tatars and engaging in population exchanges between the two in order to make a functionally
He turned them into puppet states of international communism. People who defended Ukraine and Polish interests got the axe. Much like anybody in Europe who defends the interests of their own country should get the axe.

>>717278225
Compared to? By teh standards of gaming writing Undertale is genuinly leagues above the rest.

>>717277307
Flowey literally CANNOT feel bad for people.

>>717277196
>Homestuck with furries, but a videogame
See, now this actually conjures some kind of image in your mind. I'd say it's pretty much fucking worthless either way. You're expecting someone who knows what Homestuck is. And you're expecting someone who hates Homestuck. Not even former fans, just someone who hates Homestuck in its entirety. This is basically like making a joke where the joke is just a reference.
Someone like me, I get what you're saying. Anyone else would just get the idea you're saying it's bad and shrug it off.

>It's like a movie game where you get cut in videos from the actual movie
You're describing a game. You're describing Ninja Gaiden for the NES telling you that CIA agents have dispatched Ryu Hayabusa to the fucking Congo to fight aztec demons or some shit. You can't just sit here trying to obtusely tell me, "The game has cutscenes" and expect me to take you seriously.

>>717277638
>>717278037
Touhou is genuine in that it is just a mishmash of everything ZUN likes and it doesn't attempt to pass itself as anything else.

>>717278225
The fact that you get mad just at the idea of characters being sad when they die is telling.
>no, my enemies all have to be cursing my name as I die, how else can I feel like a righteous hero?

>>717278375
I think it does try, or at least did once upon a time, but fair enough.

>>717278226
>One founded upon genociding nationalists
One founded upon genociding GERMANS, the ancient enemy of the Russian race.
>If you believe Stalin was anything other than Pro Stalin
And how does one be pro-themselves as the leader of a nation. By RUTHLESSLY following their nation's interests in order to survive.
>USSR destroyed those and replaced them.
With something more competent.
>international communism
Again, false. His ideology was socialism in one country.
>People who defended Ukraine and Polish interests got the axe
Also false. Polish communist propaganda was actually presenting themselves as the REAL nationalists, by comparing themselves to the Polish knights who defeated the German Teutonic Order at Grunwald, and referring to the new German territory as the 'recovered territory', referring to the land belonging to the Kingdom of Poland. Russian nationalist propaganda movies echoed the same sentiment like Alexander Nevsky.
>Much like anybody in Europe who defends the interests of their own country should get the axe.
Which would include Stalin I suppose, because if he tried to fuck over his country at every opportunity, Hitler would've turned him into mince meat.

>>717278340
Ninja Gaiden's gameplay and story are fun, UT's aren't unless you're a tumblr/furfag

>>717251952 (OP)
Diablo 2
Nobody ever talked about fighting the same four mobs over and over all game to pick up the same 12 loots. Major disappointment.

>>717278469
>Genociding Gemrans
Lol, no. he SHOULD have genocied Germans if that was the case. He didn't because he didn't give a fuck. He msotly just kicked them out of places they didn't belong because they were misbehaving and needed to be taught a lesson.

>. By RUTHLESSLY following their nation's interests in order to survive.
Georgia? Nope. He didn't give a fuck about them.

>With something more competent.
Genocoding nationalism is more competent by default. Removing weeds is also good.

>His ideology was socialism in one country.
Until it became global socialism again.

> Polish communist propaganda was actually presenting themselves as the REAL nationalists,
While actually ruthlessly serving the interests of russia. It's cute how stupid nationalists are, to be sure.

>Which would include Stalin I suppose
When did he defend Georgian interests?

>>717278501
Okay sure. Not really what anyone needed to say, hear, or what we're talking about.

But you get a little gold star.

Incredible how one game can completely mindbreak /v/ for ten years

>>717255950
> Deltarune does meta shit way better
Elaborate.
Because, as far as I can tell, Deltarune is basically an extremely mediocre reimagining of Code Lyoko.
A cookie-cutter story about kids going on adventures in a fantasy world played straight with very little meta content and what is there isn't very interesting.
At least Undertale has its timeline schtick. You can push at the world a little and watch how things change. There was a bit of novelty there.
What does Deltarune have to show after releasing 4 chapters?
OoOoOoOo, Kris has autonomy and is keeping secrets from the player.
OoOoOoOo, there is one route where you can do vaguely menacing things and it changes like three or four short scenes.

>Inb4 oooooooh but its now finished yet!
You're a coward and a fraud.
Barring a massive addition of content in the form of alternate paths, Deltarune is going to be a disappointment.
Its has no coherent core premise, and what is there does not ties into its mechanics.
For that reason it will never escape Undertale's shadow.

>>717278780
>He should have genocided Germans
...he did. Every single German east of the Oder-Niesse was deported or killed. Are you a retard to not see that that is literally the textbook definition of genocide?
>Georgia?
He didn't rule Georgia, he ruled Russia, the occupier of Georgia. Therefore, if he wanted to survive, he needed to pursue Russian interests. You don't seem to debate that, do you?
>Genocoding nationalism is more competent
Your spelling mistakes seem to indicate a lack of ability to argue my points.
>Until it became global socialism again
So much so that his immediate successor ruptured ties with the Communist Chinese.
>While actually ruthlessly serving the interests of russia
Because Poland was part of Russia's empire, thank you for agreeing with me.
>When did he defend Georgian interests?
When did he rule an independent Georgian state?

>>717278991
Now start screaming it was all plagiarized, I'm a few away from a bingo.

I don't care about Undertale/Deltarune, since i am not the target audience (raging homosexuals/trannies deep in liberal politics). My only gripe is seeing their retarded spawn of Tumblr refugees shit up the internet. The "totally cool, sardonic, random and spontaneous humor" these subhumans engage in is annoying as fuck. Equally as fucked as those 2hoes spergs.

Thanks for reading my blog. Fuck jannies and fuck niggers.

>>717278991
>It's just a reimagining of Code Lyoko
I really can't imagine any reality where the one and only bit of escapist-commentary fiction you've consumed is Code Lyoko and you're going around going, "This is so Code Lyoko coded." in fucking 2025. Unless you're a 30 year old aspie in which case continue on.

>>717278991
I saw the code lyoko comparison a few days ago too, is this literally just the one schizo?

>>717251952 (OP)
I thought Super Metroid was just OK. Basically every other metroidvania I played was better.

>>717278991
>Its has no coherent core premise, and what is there does not ties into its mechanics.
I bet you think Undertale's core premise is something about how you treat characters in games and you're responsible for everything you do even if you reset.

>>717276263
>Undertale operates on the same logic of letting you kill anyone but the game has the audacity of trying to make you feel bad about it
the game only rubs it in if you go out of your way to kill everyone (will not happen unless you're explicitly going out of your way to do it) or kill papyrus (cannot kill you under any circumstance and even spares you on genocide, killing the "i was defending myself!" argument.)

>>717279420
I've never played one even close to Super Metroid, and I've played most of them.

>>717263719
Holy shit, I fucking hated the ending of that game.
Made both Booker and Elizibeth look like retards.
The DLC just further hammered that point home.
Which one of the shit-crewing monkeys on the writing team thought half-baked multiversal timetravel mechanics would be good to incorporate into Bioshock and how did he convince the rest of the project to go along with that idiocy?

>>717279420
The people who tell you Super Metroid is the undisputed best one think the point of metroidvanias is sequence breaking.

>>717251952 (OP)
Pikmin 2, shadow of the colossus, BotW

>>717278991
Fully agreed. Deltarune's story is nonsensical compared to Undertale and the meta parts are sidelined in favor of Susie who is probably the most annoying character in the game.

>>717280039
People who process stories the way you do confuse me. How can you be so distracted by a character that you miss everything else?

>>717280139
Because they keep shoving the character in my face. Like it isn't even subtle. I'll be doing something completely different and Ralsei will say 'hey, wonder what Susie's doing right now?'.
What is there isn't substantial enough to be interesting, and mostly serves as blueballing to reel in the theoryfags and keep them hooked for the next chapter. This man has been cockteasing Gaster for a decade.

>>717251952 (OP)
Both it and deltarune are incredibly bad, yet people keep pushing them

>>717277638
>you dodge bullets so it’s Touhou

>>717280289
Have you thought perhaps that Ralsei might have a reason in-character to be moving the focus away from himself, or is everything you dislike in a game the creator personally spitting in your face and nothing more?
>oh but it's just a tease for something vaaaaaague
Why do you think it has no consistent reasoning or purpose?

You fuckers lied to me this is the exact same crap Ubisoft pumps out every year

>>717277704
Toby? I don't think so. I don't think he actually READS fan works.

>>717251952 (OP)
I can't believe I bought this garbage on switch because people were saying it's the best thing since Earthbound yet it has no gameplay. Even Moon has gameplay.

>>717279093
Why would the plagiarizer schizo like Undertale?

>>717280448
>Is everything you dislike the creator spitting in your face
I never said that. Are you ok? Multiple times we'll go 'oh whats susie doing right now' and she's giggling and blushing with Noelle or some other retarded faggotry I don't care about.
>Why do you think it has no consistent reasoning or purpose
This is a pretty nothing question. The meta narrative concept has POTENTIAL. But its potential is left at that because Gaster is reduced to cryptic lines of dialogue and blueball references to Entry 17. FRIEND is a png who shows up every now and then to remind you of his existence.
The Kris and SOUL shit has become Tom and Jerry outside of the Weird Route, which itself is far less expansive than the genocide route, only changing a few cutscenes and sequences.
Chapters 3 and 4 have released and we know just as much as we did about the SOUL, Gaster, FRIEND, any of this shit, yet we have PLENTY on Susie's character development. Clearly there's a priority
>Oh but he's saving it for Chapter X!!!
Which is retarded. You cannot reasonably expect a casual player to remember coy references and theories a year or more down the line when you've already been stringing them along since 2018.

>>717251952 (OP)
>best castlevania!
It's anti castlevania as fuck (castlevania is pure gaming substance devoid of aimless bloat).
>best metroidvania!
It's a pathetic backtracking tour about picking up useless trinkets which only gets worse when getting to the pants on head retarded inverted castle.

Game is as much of a fraud as its cover.

>>717280289
She's one of the main characters. It's not subtle because normal, non neuro-divergent people, go, "Okay another scene with one of the main characters." They aren't going, "WHAT THE FUCK, ANOTHER FUCKING SUSIE SCENE? FUCK IT'S BAD ENOUGH THAT SHE'S ON-SCREEN 99% OF THE TIME, NOW I HAVE NOTHING TO LOOK AT BUT HER."

You've got some serious autism.

And going, "Susie only gets scenes for the THEORYFAGS to speculate on." Is nonsense. It's like trying to tack on an objective reason for your completely emotional response. Even just going, "I dislike Susie as a character." would be more reasonable than going, "Gaster is REMOVED from the story because Susie exists."

>ITT : people discussing a game they havent played

>>717281102
>She's one of the main characters
So are Kris and Ralsei and they don't even get a third of the screentime.
>Susie only gets scenes for the theoryfags to speculate on
What?
>I dislike Susie as a character
Yeah thats what I'm saying. I dislike her as a character and I wish that Toby would put more focus on the meta elements instead of saving them for teases at the beginning and end of each chapter.

>>717281258
Anon, you're describing almost every thread on /v/.

I like Susie as a character

>>717280289
>Because they keep shoving the character in my face. Like it isn't even subtle. I'll be doing something completely different and Ralsei will say 'hey, wonder what Susie's doing right now?'.
That you not get that he's doing that to distract (You)? He can't say "Hey, I wonder what Kris is doing right now" because you're inside Kris.

Have we found the first person who didn't realize the 'I wonder what Susie's doing right now' is a distraction to make (you) look away from Kris and Ralsei as they plot behind your back?

>>717281573
I know that dipshit, I find it more interesting and it is another addition to the list of 'cool plot points Toby will incessantly tease to get you to play the next chapter'

>>717280840
NTA, but I think you're so hung up over Susie that you're ignoring all the shit outside of her we've learned about.
>Kris being established to work with the antagonists
>Kris's whole struggle with playing the piano while the SOUL is involved finally being resolved as Susie forces them to stop dicking around and play the piece
>Ralsei's shadiness being because he knows what's about to happen because of the Prophecy and he's trying his best to either defy it or at least spare his friends from knowing the truth about the worst of it until it happens
IMO the game's focus is split pretty evenly between the Three Heroes.

>>717281474

yeah, it's incredibly lame. you got three lame tumblr characters and three whole games are all about them with fOreShAdowWIng of something that might happen later what a big nothing.

>>717281773
If you know that, why complain about it when that's literally the point?

>OH MY GOD I'M BEING DISTRACTED BY THIS STORY BY THIS DISTRACTION!
That's how you sound right now. You're not supposed to know what they're saying. You're supposed to be watching Susie bumble her way around because of all the characters in this game, she's the only one that's from out of town, knows nobody, and isn't in on any of the plots everyone has been scheming for long before (you) came along.

I dislike Undertale/Deltarune because I prefer grittier/darker stories in a story driven game, and only the evil routes have them. Though I recognize that the games are fundamentally well made with engaging gameplay and an objectively well-written story (in Undertale at least, Deltarune isn't finished).

>>717282802
Undertale's evil route is better than Deltarune's.

>>717280289
>Ralsei will say 'hey, wonder what Susie's doing right now?'
But that's part of the meta, as Ralsei uses it to talk with Kris in secret.

Playing UTY for the first time and I haven't realized how lazy Deltarune has made me when it comes to dodging attacks. Only having 20 HP makes everything a lot less forgiving, even if the attacks themselves are easier.

>>717278991
>Code Lyoko
What a weird comparison, the only commonality is kids having adventures in other worlds.

>>717251952 (OP)
The worst aspect of Undertale is how manipulative it is. Despite being presented as a game where you can choose how you play you are punished unless you play an extremely specific manner.

>>717284039
if you're talking about the accidental toriel crit I agree it's kinda bullshit
it just like randomly does the entire last 3rd of her health and then the flowey acts like you killed her on purpose
I think he just really wanted people to see the scene where he shits on you for resetting her back to life which is admittedly cool

>>717251952 (OP)

>>717282389
>Tfw no cute tomboy gf to cuddle
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAREEEEEEEEES

>>717284351
More of a wake-up call in my eyes. If you don't want to hurt someone, don't hurt them. A lot of people are so deep into their idea of how games work that they're practically sleepwalking. The intent is for you to remember being told you might have to spare monsters before their names are yellow, notice that dialog appears when they spare Toriel, and start trying it repeatedly. And honestly, in a world where you don't crit Toriel, people will still kill her because they're waiting for her name to turn yellow.

>>717282802
The one actually good critical post in this entire thread.

>>717282802
>with engaging gameplay
lol no
>and an objectively well-written story
LOL NO

>>717286170
>If you don't want to hurt someone, don't hurt them
Except you have to FIGHT Asgore anyways, and sometimes beating an enemy until their name turns yellow IS viable.

>>717284967

>>717282389
Perfection

>>717287142
Kris is in heaven

>>717263719
The only real way to experience Undertale was going into it with the mindset of "oh that looks like a cute little indie game where you can do little puzzles instead of combat :)"
Subversion only really works if you have the correct initial expectations.
Nowadays it is literally impossible to get the "true" undertale experience unless you lived under a rock

>>717288236
Living under a rock and having no understanding of game history would make undertale worse, honestly. So much of its jokes rely on "subverting" tropes, or are direct refences to games which even a decade ago were stretches (like the FF6 opera scene).

>>717288236
Being fair anon, that's exactly what Undertale actually is, with some tohou-inspired bullet hell sections and decent character writing thrown in (I may hate Snaj t Skellington from the bottom of my heart, but the enduring popularity of the Undertale cast, and the fact that most of them had enough going on character-wise that ten fucking years later the retarded fanbase is still getting blindsided by character traits that were always there is a testament to Toby's writing being decent).

>>717288236
This is the real reason why people don't like it today
When it came out of nowhere it was great, but now that it's been spoiled it's not
Having plot twists revealed before watching a movie or reading a book has the same effect

>>717288236
Undertale doesn't get its value solely out of "hey I know what was supposed to happen there from [other game], but it didn't!"
The things it "subverts" are stereotypes mostly still believed in by people who don't really play games at all.

>>717289319
>the enduring popularity of the Undertale cast, and the fact that most of them had enough going on character-wise that ten fucking years later the retarded fanbase is still getting blindsided by character traits that were always there is a testament to Toby's writing being decent
You can say that about lots and lots of things that are written like shit, like Fate, Homesuck, horse show, Steven Universe, etc

>>717290546
You can still like things even if you're spoiled on it. Undertale still good, despite the spoilers.

>>717291090
Fate had like two decent VNs (Okay a VN and a JRPG that would be better off as a VN) and the problems with it were never the characters, just the overwritten and convoluted plots, even as a gatcha jpg farm it still shits out a decent character or two every few years.
Horse show was a well made kids show that worked for the target audience, that braindead /co/ users latched onto it and sperged into space doesn't mean it was badly written.
Imma be real with you most of the time people bring up the gay space rock show at this point, it's to clown on the "cry and sing a song so space Hitler stops being mean" thing, or because they jerk it to the blue one.

Homestuck I think is genuinely the real world equivalent of the King in Yellow where it scars and psychologically warps any fool who dares read it irreversibly, but instead of being because it was made by an interdimensional niggerman it's just that fucking bad. It's like a collective psychological trauma for a specific subset of theater kids that will haunt them to the end of time.

>>717251952 (OP)
Are these threads made by the curryjanny that was seething that Deltarune was getting more traffic than Donkey Kong?

>>717292667
They're the only ones that don't get deleted so they have tacit endorsement at least.

>>717287714

>>717287215

>>717278991
This but Persona 4/5

>>717251952 (OP)
Bloodborne until Old Hunters, especially the fucking chalice dungeons.

>>717293492

I want Kris to kiss Asriel

>>717292667
Maybe? Although we've been using their threads to stealth so far.

>>717293580
susie if she crisp

>>717268171
>, farming battles in each zone
this point makes me think you guys have never played a fucking pokemon game. It genuinely took me longer as a 6 year old to evolve my charmander into a charmeleon than it does to do LITERALLY ALL THE GRINDING NEEDED FOR THE GENOCIDE ROUTE. It takes less than 2 hours in total.

>>717273995
>walking back and forward like a retard for TWO boss fights and babies first creepypasta
>9/10

>>717262019
I would say that the biggest improvement from undertale to deltarune isnt the art, music, or even gameplay, but the writing. Toby is not only writing a more layered and nuanced story, but his writing is also just more charming. I agree almost no jokes in UT land for me, but deltarune gets me at least once or twice a chapter.

>>717276875
nothing wrong with being a boomer
it is however a bad thing being a zoomer, constantly thinking about the future by not allowing progress to be made.

>>717262019
Sans jokes AREN’T funny. That's the point.

>>717294546
>the writing
Genuinely, as someone learning to write my own shit, I think it's actually super fascinating how Toby allowing you to beat the shit out of enemies in Deltarune avoided like 95% of bad faith arguments
I guess it's kind of dubious to file this under "writing" but I really don't think he expected so many dipshits to (willingly) misinterpret what the game is actually saying, so he made active attempts to retard-proof it

god I wish this site's rules were enforced

>>717295274
He failed given that the game berates the players for playing the wrong way to the point the fandom is obsessed with the "correct" way of playing, meaning he didn't really retard-proof anything

>>717261319
>>717254907
>>717253130
>>717251952 (OP)
reminds me of the other RPG that's overrated as fuck

>>717296467
Thanks for being one of the retards

>>717294046
Tell me why this isn't peak

>2015+10
>still thinks shitting on Undertale gets you contrarian points
my brother you are in the wrong decade

>>717296814
>>2015+10
>>still thinks glazing Undertale gets you /v/ points
my brother you are in the wrong decade

>>717296814

>>717296909
not liking not unpopular things does not make you an uninteresting person

>>717296960
..NOT

the only games you're supposed to like are niche games that 3rd-world browns have never heard of, thus rendering them unable to shitpost about them

>>717296420
The RAPED janny wannabe...

>>717296960
No one implied that.

>>717284039
>punished
I'm not sure you would call it punishment. *You* aren't punished in any way for playing it however you want. *The Characters* note how fucked that is for them, but you realize they're just scripted to say that, you don't have to care what they think.

>>717297384
>Kill Toriel
>Flowey calls you shit
>go genocide
>Sans literally calls out the player
>watch it on stream
>game calls you out
>flowey and chara literally shit on the player and thats their gimmick
This shit is just Spec Ops for furros and Tumblrinas

>>717296705
It IS peak. Nobody has ever been able to refute it.

>>717295274
Well-done tard proofing is unironically key to getting the kind of explosive appeal Undertale had at launch. Toby's biggest strength as a dev obviously isn't art and sure as fuck isn't code, but his familiarity with gamers and our behavior means he could tune his games to very consistently get the intended responses out of people, just look at any compilation of tubers playing through a given scene in undertale, and you'll see very similar reactions across the board. Tobery built his game to take players on a ultimately linear ride where pretty much every scene lands, and did it with an elegance that most yellow-paint-huffing "designers" couldn’t dream of. The entire Genocide route is a good example of this. It does an excellent job of attracting the people it intends to (challenge-seekers and completionists) while repelling everyone else.

Deltarune improves on this because Toby learned from Undertale. The first chapter being a lengthy pisstake of the moral a lot of normies took from Undertale, complete with Susie acting as an audience avatar for the people who didn't want to engage with what they thought the message of Undertale was (and her litterally chucking backseater-who-insists-you-spare-everything surrogate Ralsei at one of the first major enemies she sees) wasn't a mistake.

>>717297457
>the characters are the dev speaking to me in this line instead of just having an in character response
>how can I tell? well uh the tone is the same and the thing they're talking about is consistent and uh... well... it's just different, okay?!

>>717297457
>chara literally shit on the player and thats their gimmick
Only if you refuse her older like a dumb cuck.

>>717297729
You are reading too much into the furry tumblr VN

>>717298019
Nah, I think everything he said is pretty much dead on.

>>717298080
then there's two retards in this thread

>>717251952 (OP)
you wouldn't get it
you would need to play it in 2015 and before it got popular
those were some of the best /v/ threads

>>717298252
You and who else?

>>717298080
Nah I think you're samefagging to fake support your autistic reading into a very simply written game

>>717297757
>same cope as Spec Ops
lmao

>play evil route
>get mad when characters call you evil
What the fuck did you expect? Do you retards piss yourselves when you get called a asshole for eating someone in fallout. They’re pixels on a screen.

>>717298307
Ah, there's the other retard anon told me about.
Undertale and Deltarune are not "very simply written". You might get that impression if you believe the intent of the games is to shame you for playing them, but of course, that's just being retarded.

>>717298408
Yes, they do get mad, so they go and kill and eat that person too. You are the most important thing in the game and everyone else should treat you like god. They believe everyone plays games like them and you're either a tranny for not doing so or in denial about doing it because you're a pussy.

>>717298408
If you were a good person, you wouldn't be here

>>717298365
>>717297457
There was no problem with Spec Ops as a game. The problem was when the devs came out and said "we wanted to make a game that shits on the player for playing it and if you don't like it then just turn the game off" complete with railroading and actively removing alternate paths that playtesters took in order to avoid the parts of the game that the devs wanted to shit on you for playing. Undertale not only doesn't do this but Toby has frequently explicitly said that all paths are equally valid and he doesn't shit on people for playing the game the way they want to. And then Deltarune goes and frequently explicitly references Undertale's genocide route in the chapter whose final boss fight requires you to beat the fuck out of and kill ("""purify""").

>>717298705
>spec ops
>nothing to do but the "evil" things
>the point is "stop playing the game or you're evil"
>the ultimate way to obey the message would be to not even play it in the first place

>undertale
>can do whatever
>the point is "do the things that make you happy, don't do everything just because you can"
>message only calls you out for playing in the first place if you hated it the whole time and expected to hate it going in

>>717298527
>You are the most important thing in the game and everyone else should treat you like god.
Self-insert cucks are so cringe. These are just pixels, grow a pair.

>>717294046

>>717263719
Amazing how far having some of the coolest art direction ever carried it

>>717294265

>>717298879
>Spec Ops literally starts calling you an "special guest" to Walker's Story
>So the entire game is about Walker fucking up

>Undertale preaches and gets all pretentious with you up to the point flowey, the evil character talks to the player to not be so nice in the real world because not everything can be solved by being kind
lmao Spec Ops looking like a saint right now

i thought women were supposed to be the "emotional gender", what's up with you guys

>>717299339
The pixels got mad at me when I did the things that benefited me. Why are they allowed to do that? I should be able to kill them before they talk. Games are about number going up.

>>717299339
Only a cucked excuse of a """""man""""" would not be comfortable with being emotional

>>717299280
>can separate self from main character in a game where you're not supposed to do that
>can't separate self from main character in a game where you're supposed to
Truly sad.

>>717299598
Hope you aren't implying you aren't supposed to in Spec Ops when that's literally what the entire story is
and that you aren't in UT since that's the entire point

>>717299339
IM NEVER GLOOBY!

>>717278991
I fucking wish deltarune was like code lyoko, we could get some crazy shit like the knight disabling gravity in the real world.

>>717299817
>chapter 5
>knight tries to crash a truck into the nearest nuclear plant

>>717299725
You are supposed to self insert in Spec Ops since that's the point of the story.
You are not supposed to be self inserting in Undertale, at least by the end of the story. It lets you start out self-inserting but is designed to break you out of that if you're doing it.

>>717298420
Actually anon, I'd say they are simply written. Straightforward would be a better word though. DR Ch1 isn't exactly subtle or complex when it says "obligate pacifism is dumb and only possible when the enemies don't want to fight". Even outside of Susie basically just shouting that and then running off to go on a rampage that only stops when she has to kill a character she actually cares about, the sparable enemies saying shit like "I have no strong opinions one way or another", Ralsei's doormat behavior falling flat the minute he encounters anything that actually wants to fight, and especially the entire King encounter, it's both fucking obvious what is being said, and it's not complicated.

Both Toby's games have bits of objectively poor writing in them as well- Undertale largely ignores that Toriel, Papyrus and Asgore are the only people in the underground who even feel bad about attempting to kill a child. Jury's still out on if the 'romance' scenes between Susie and Noelle in Deltarune blow ass on purpose as a misdirection from HMOAF Kino or not, but the scenes with Undyne and Alphys in UT are genuinely cringey and shit. And the dialog with Toriel shaming Asgore in Undertale completely fails to convey the intended message (that Toriel is a hypocrite who shares the same qualities she hates in her ex) and people are only now starting to clue in 10 years later after the end of DR Ch4 beats you over the head with her being shitty to dispell the "Perfect mom" illusion.

Toby's biggest strength isn't his writing, which is honestly just okay-to-good, it's his game design. Which makes that one tardiness who keeps comparing him to the Rimworld guy really funny, because that guy's game largely succeeded in spite of his dogshit game design that players have spent more than a decade finding new ways to circumvent.

>>717300425
>HMOAF Kino
I wonder how many people wouldn't be interested in Deltarune if Kris was a monster too

>>717299339
/v/ is filled with emasculated men.

>>717300425
>on purpose as a misdirection from HMOAF Kino or not
Furfag post discarded.

>>717300697
It would certainly be lesser, but Susie is still a hot tomboy who couldn't have been constructed better in a lab. Gatchashits WISH they could make a waifu with that kind of staying power.

>>717300425
>DR Ch1 isn't exactly subtle or complex when it says "obligate pacifism is dumb and only possible when the enemies don't want to fight"
... oh, I see. I thought you were trying to say ch1 was a self-contained dismissal of the people who played Undertale and somehow took from it "I should always be nice to NPCs". You're saying it's an argument against the idea that you should always try to solve everything without fighting period. Damn, it's been awhile since I heard that one, I had forgotten some people were THAT fucking retarded.
>Jury's still out on if the 'romance' scenes between Susie and Noelle in Deltarune blow ass on purpose as a misdirection from HMOAF Kino or not
Third option, they blow ass because they're trying to point out that Noelle is trying to find a surrogate for Dess instead of moving on, another commentary on escapism/denial of one's own circumstances. It's not "either Kris gets with one of them OR it's shit".

>>717251952 (OP)
It's 10/10, for the tumblr audience

>>717251952 (OP)
but look at all this fan content, even from professional voice actors in the industry!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bHoE5jiNJM

>>717300918
>Gatchashits WISH they could make a waifu with that kind of staying power.
I mean she's a meathead shonen MC but turned into a scalie girl, that alone checks off a lot of boxes for a character that's actually appealing

What is it about this game that mindbroke /v/ for nearly ten years?

>>717301397
It's not very good but the tumblr crowd memed it into being successful, like the game equivalent inverse of Trump

>>717251952 (OP)
>finally play the 10/10 indie darling that's on every "best game ever" list
But enough about Hollow Knight

>>717301397
Midwit repellent. They're smart enough to tell the game wants them to think differently but not smart enough to see that it wants them to form their own opinions.

>>717301397
>What is it about this game that mindbroke /v/ for nearly ten years?
Literally any successful indie game makes this place get butthurt for reasons that are genuinely incomprehensible

>>717301663
>the game wants them to think differently
By fucking with the saves of people who want to think differently? At one point Toby wanted the game to delete itself for people who chose to play "the wrong" way, I think that's the opposite of encouraging them to think differently, you my friend are a pseud

>>717301672
Man I barely remember the pretext people used to try and shitpost about Pizza Tower. Was it coomers or xitter?

>>717301637
I think you mean ftl.

>>717254907
>Letting outside opinions influence your perception of an art piece
You are an NPC. Simple as.

>>717301776
>I want to utterly exhaust this game of content.
>why? Do you like it?
>no, I hate it, but I want to finish it.
>but if you don't like it, you shouldn't do it, it's supposed to be fun
>I JUST WANT TO THINK DIFFERENTLY REEEEE STUPID GAAAAME!!!
Toby doesn't care how you play Undertale.

>>717301776
you sound like you have a massive victim complex honestly. if you're committed to the genocide ending then you get what you want at the end.
>>717301848
I feel like there were a handful of very dedicated schizos like that one unironic sharty fag, or the person who "doxxed" ptg over listening to crash bandicoot music.

>>717301935
The thread is literally about game reputation

>>717301948
>>but if you don't like it, you shouldn't do it, it's supposed to be fun
How is this encouraging people to think differently retard, you yourself just claimed he was imposing his own ideas on them

>>717301397
The "enemy" loves it, so /v/ must hate it.

>>717301984
>you sound like you have a massive victim complex honestly.
Ah anon you are definitely a pseud as you're unable to parse objective information without projecting it onto me as a supposed personal grievance

The fact Toby wanted to delete the game of people who played the way they wanted objectively proves >>717301663 wrong and it has nothing to do with my personal thoughts or opinions

>>717301397
I remember the first time this hit me when it had been 5 years and it seemed insane at the time. we are about to hit TEN FUCKING YEARS of people being mindbroken.

>>717302054
>How is this encouraging people to think differently retard
Because "I must finish because it is game" is the default way to think. Undertale wants you to evaluate whether you are enjoying yourself, to THINK about the game you are playing, rather than just continue.

>>717252224
The left can't meme

>>717302163
So it doesn't want you to think DIFFERENTLY, it wants you to adopt Toby's perspective

>>717302117
>Toby wanted to delete the game of people who played the way they wanted
With the understanding that it could be reinstalled, like anything else on your computer. Toby wanted the game to delete itself for effect, not to lock the naughty child out from ever touching his precious game again.

>>717302163
But this falls apart when you realize that toby made a fun game with fun characters and fun gameplay, making the question of having fun extremely simple. Lisa the painful and pathological don’t have this issue.

>>717302275
I still don't see how that is encouraging players to think differently or form their own opinions, in fact it seems like conditioning forcing them to adopt his own opinion

>>717295274
Yeah even about a decade later the vast majority of bitching is stuff like DA FLOWER WAS MEAN AND STINKY TO ME!!!! meanwhile Deltarune complaints are... what even are the complaints? Suselle? But it's nowhere near the same circular shit Undertale still gets on a regular basis

>>717302246
His perspective amounts to actually thinking about how you feel and letting that alter how you behave.

>>717302408
see >>717302117

>>717302117
you sound even more like you've got a victim complex with every post you make. you've got ultimate power as the player and toby knew this so if it hurts you so much that the genocide route ended in genocide then thats on you to change if you want.

>>717302408
Undertale's complaints are at least about the GAME. Deltarune's complains are just shipping shit for lonely furfag anons.

>>717302561
No it actually seems to be the opposite given that the players who think like him are rewarded and players that don't get penalized

>>717302651
You have definitely been blown out and have no retort, there's no reason why genocide should result in the game being deleted except for pettiness on Toby's part, games that let you kill everyone and then rule over the ashes are fun as hell and that makes Toby mad

>>717302324
>toby made a fun game with fun characters and fun gameplay
If you find the characters and writing of the pacifist route directly fun, engaging, or appealing, then genocide isn't going to be fun/engaging/appealing to you. That is the intent. If you like the characters, spend your time with them, and move on, you got the message. Genocide is meant to make these people feel as if they are sacrificing the things they liked about the game to get "more content". It parallels Flowey.

>>717297729
bravo tobjima

>>717302561
I feel like this only works if you go into the game not knowing you don’t need to kill anyone. The game would actually benefit from having scenarios where killing someone IS the right thing to do. Once you kill goat lady you pretty much have no reason to kill ever again except for morbid curiosity. Even then these characters aren’t fucking real, so why change the way I think?

>>717302775
>there's no reason why genocide should result in the game being deleted except for pettiness on Toby's part
It's weird that this kind of thing is standard creepypasta fare but /v/ as a demographic is so absurdly paranoid and frightened of everything that they think this is meant to be a personal attack
>b-b-but it is-
Why would he program the route and give it exclusive boss fights and incorporate his magnum opus track and spend most of the neutral endings jacking off his fat skeleton trying to preemtively hype up his battle

>>717302117
>The fact Toby wanted to delete the game of people who played the way they wanted objectively proves
ok so what does this not being the case in the final product mean

>>717301063
I'd say it's more specifically the whole "backseat every person who ever plays the game into sparing every enemy even though you can't even get true pacifist on your first playthrough" thing that happened with Undertale. It's easy to forget now because it's been a litteral decade, but that shit was a fucking inescapable milstone around Undertale's neck once it caught on. Tubers outright refused to play the game because of it, and you can bet your ass that a lot of people who were introduced to the game by a friend got nagged out of killing anyone and were thus robbed of one of the best moments in the entire game. Deltarune chapter 1 came out only two years after Undertale when that shit was still ongoing.

Like I said, Ralsei acts as a surrogate for that part of the fanbase, and Susie for the ones who got fed up with that shit. They move beyond this after chapter 1 and this isn't the totality of their characters (or else Ralsei would be an insufferable screechy bitch and Susie would post in /v/ culturewar threads unironically), but it is a significant part of it.

I honestly agree with you on the Suselle scenes, Noelle bag-fumbling at Olympic levels constantly and the entire 'romance' scene in chapter 4 having the both of them just straight up talk about Kris the entire time makes me think that, but I'm not willing to entirely believe that Toby is pulling something like that after what he wrote in complete sincerity in Undertale being similarly shit.

>>717302813
Why does a game have to be fun? I don't care, I want an emotionally engaging experience. I don't go to see a tragedy at the theater to get positive feels out of it. It's about exploring the human condition.

>>717302928
see >>717302117

>>717302775
it should happen because its sick as hell
>rule over the ashes
then kill all but one monster and leave the underground a barren dark place where those left only have despair. or continue crying, personally I enjoy when you do that.
>>717302813
it does parallel flowey, but there is an aspect of seeing some of the characters at their "best" in the genocide route. seeing papyrus at the zenith of his moral strength rounds out the character in a way you cant get from most games.

>>717303021
holy basado, I just bought more shares of OpenAI

>>717303021
oh but see you didn't have an argument that time so please go again

>>717302940
>ok so what does this not being the case in the final product mean
It means he was a retard that didn't know how to get it to work

>>717299064
>>717299195
she could drain every drop of semen from him

was there also this much seething over FNAF back in the day

>>717302862
>I feel like this only works if you go into the game not knowing you don’t need to kill anyone
How does that affect it at all? You think the message would work better if the player had to "waste" a playthrough on shit they didn't really enjoy?
>Even then these characters aren’t fucking real, so why change the way I think?
The point of Undertale is to pick a lane. If the characters aren't fucking real you shouldn't be attached to how they think of you whether it's positive or negative. Don't wait for games to tell you "congrats on doing that thing, have a reward" before you decide whether you liked that bit or not.

>>717303137
lol. checks out, his biggest strong suit was music anyway

>>717303137
>bro can't into regex, switch statements, or the DRY principle
If he can program a game, then anyone can do it

>>717303012
If your enjoyment of pacifist is rooted in good vibes that you "earn" by being nice to the characters, and not in exploring the world/characters themselves, then you shouldn't do genocide. That's literally it.

I don't know how much sense this actually makes once I say it out loud but a part of me honestly thinks that because Toby isn't some overly talkative twitter clown you have a non-insignificant amount of people who just project all sorts of shit onto him as some way of trying to fill in that shitposting void

>>717303525
there's a lot of posts that feel like "toby personally wronged me" so I could buy that, but if he was more open about his opinions the shitposters would just latch on to that instead.

>>717303525
There's enough stupid Radiation forum posts for us to know exactly the sort of person he is

>>717294450
I never once grinded in Pokemon
they're too easy to require grinding

>>717303689
>There's enough stupid Radiation forum posts for us to know exactly the sort of person he is
negrotown...

>>717303482
But it's not just good vibes. It's also genuinely touching. And the genocide route is still a very emotionally engaging experience. It's just that it fills you with emptiness, sadness, ethical dissonance, and perhaps regret. All are emotions worth exploring in fiction. I think the exploration of regret in particular lends itself perfectly to interactive media, since it's so tied to the choices you make.

>>717303689
>image
Damn, I can't imagine seething at someone for not being self-absorbed ENOUGH.

>>717303797
Exactly, posting something like that in your youth and then calling on your fanbase of impressionable kids to support BLM while safely hidden away in the homogeneous Japan tells you everything you need to know about him as a person

>>717303841
>It's also genuinely touching.
Read a book nigga

>>717303879
He's saying "if you're arrogant then don't pretend you aren't", though both Woody and Toby have physical reasons to not display their arrogance publicly, that being their incredibly small and weak frames, someone big like Orson could afford to display his arrogance because he would survive a medium strength jab

>>717303947
I read plenty, thank you very much. But I'm open to recommendations.

>>717303841
What's the point of you saying all this exactly? Are you trying to talk up the genocide route to me? Why? I'm not saying it shouldn't exist, I'm saying it's not for everyone and that's fine. What it ISN'T is trying to police how people play the game.

>>717303887
>the reason people here get titanically asshurt at any humor is because he's not le ebin waycism man
oh fuck, now it all makes sense

>>717251952 (OP)
Undertale is just cringe. No, I don't feel bad for killing the monsters who wanted to kill me. No, I don't have the responsibility to tardwrangle them. Papyrus is the only monster you should feel bad for.
>isn't it MEAN to be MEAN to VIDEO GAMES THOUGH!?
No because they're video games.
The metasaveslop undermines Genocide's point because at the end of the day, they're video games.
Anyway the rest of the game just isn't fun, the pacing is bad, it's too easy, and the writing is meh. I don't care if Flowey goes "I REMEMBER YOU'RE TORIELCIDES" because I don't care about my Torielcides. Stupid bitch shouldn't have started a fight if she knew she couldn't finish it.

>>717304090
That's what you got out of that? And not the fact that he's a slimy holier-than-thou hypocrite? I'm detecting some bias anon, not good!

>>717304158
>Papyrus is the only monster you should feel bad for.
Papyrus is open to dating a 10 year old, send him to dungeon and throw away the key

>>717304032
I don't believe either of them to be arrogant in the first place, which is why they don't show arrogance.

>>717304079
I'm saying it's a very surface level engagement with fiction to *just* want it to be fun. You can have fun at a water slide, but it's hardly a profound experience.

>>717304158
>>isn't it MEAN to be MEAN to VIDEO GAMES THOUGH!?
interesting, thats not something undertale says!

>>717304090
A lot of people here unironically think that changing in any way between youth and adulthood is this intrinsic, borderline sinful betrayal of your character
If you want a very non-political example of this look at consolewarfaggots, for literal decades they're still trying to fight the good fight that is bunkering down on retarded opinions they formed as small children and never budging and inch (99% of the time because they grew up as poorfags)

>>717304158
>No, I don't feel bad for killing the monsters who wanted to kill me. No, I don't have the responsibility to tardwrangle them.
And Undertale agrees with you.

>>717304305
>A lot of people here unironically think that changing in any way between youth and adulthood is this intrinsic, borderline sinful betrayal of your character
Why did Toby move halfway across the globe and then tell the people who stayed to support an unironic grifter organization that did nothing to help black people?

>>717304310
As fucking if. The game very clearly and obviously wants you to feel bad for the monsters.

>>717304278
That's why I said more words than just "fun".

aw what's the matter little man, working HARD for those (You)s? hm? scream LOUDER, daddy loves it

>>717304282
what does undertale say then?

>>717276765
>The characters get sad when you kill them
Is this a special type of high-level autism? What else were you expecting some of these dorks to do when you swing a knife at them?

>>717304220
Well that just means he's true to his roots as a 4chan-using NEET with a neckbeard.

>>717304310
I feel like if tards like him ever bothered to play Deltarune they'd probably really like Susie considering she beats the asses of every enemy in Ch1 for that exact reason.

Also she explicitly did the Genocide route equivalent in one of her favorite games because she didn't realize she didn't have to kill everything.

Truly a lizard for tards everywhere.

>>717304427
Why, because they're sad when you kill them? You're the one who picked up the "friendly RPG where no-one has to die", a tagline you have a 100% chance of seeing before you buy if you read.
The moral of Undertale is that you're responsible for your own enjoyment. If you don't think it'd be enjoyable for the characters to be sad, don't make them sad.

>>717304491
"dont you have anything better to do?"

>>717304609
Watsonian explanation for a Doylist question.

>>717304626
>Well that just means he's true to his roots as a 4chan-using NEET with a neckbeard.
He's a tumblrfag through and through, which /v/-fag would say shit like this way back then

So it's a wrap, Deltarune is the superior game

>>717304609
>What else were you expecting some of these dorks to do when you swing a knife at them?
I don't know either anon, that's what I ask myself every time I see someone complain that the game guilt trips them.

>>717304384
Because he's a weeb for the former, and for the latter because a shitload of politically unsavvy types with milquetoast center-left opinions fell for that shit hook line and sinker anon, there was immense political pressure for anyone remotely center-left to lick rioter boot and most didn't question it because of how aggressive the propaganda was about The Narrative.

>>717304713
The bit is that Papyrus was originally conceived as a more abrasive neckbeardy NEET sperg instead of the goofy and outgoing innocent sperg he ended up as anon. Early draft Papyrus would absolutely frequent lolicon threads on here and shit like that.

Also Toby litterally hung around on /v/ back in 2012 while making his game you fucking newfag.

>>717304220
>LoliCHAD
>Anons hate him.
He's /our guy/

>>717304729
The only reason we don't have these arguments for Deltarune is that only Undertale fans play it.

>>717255950
>It peaked when flowey calls you out for save scumming
Is this really what Undertroons suck off? Something Mr. Resetti did ten years prior?

>>717305304
>The only reason we don't have these arguments for Deltarune is that only Undertale fans play it.
lolwut

>>717305208
Papyrus is literal reddit incarnate
don't know how anyone with a brain can stomach him

>>717305703
Now, if Papyrus was TWITTER incarnate? Heh, I couldn't get enough!

>>717304631
>Why, because they're sad when you kill them?
No, because the game's talking point and moral is that "killing the monsters is bad and you have a responsibility to not kill them".
The narrative that Undertale "implores you to play however you want and doesn't shame you for any choices you make" is just wrong. Between the immense monotony of the Genocide route, how much Sans malds, and how much it screams "THESE ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS YOU MONSTER", it's insanely clear. So much of the game hinges on "you don't HAVE to do this!"
It's like saying the moral of Mario is to jump into lava because you can do that and Bowser wants you to fall in lava.
As for the moral itself, anti-genocide and murder is wrong is certainly not an unreasonable position to take. But the game comes off as conceited, wanting to have it's metacake and eat it too, while the writing being not engaging or funny enough to make up for it.
"You're responsible for your fun, shouldn't have done genocide if it wasn't fun, there's nothing good in it."
Then why are Sans and Undyne the best fights in the game?
"The game doesn't shame you for wanting to see it."
Then why is Genocide such a slog?

Really, Genocide is the only reason Undertale is a bad game, but it's also the only reason it's a memorable game. Without Genocide, Undertale is a painfully below average game with boring writing and mediocre gameplay. With Genocide, Undertale is a memorable dumpster fire.

ENTER

>>717305767
Debunked.

>>717304686
that's a pretty lame moral and I paid 20 dollars for this game
give me a refund if you don't want me to see it all
also no because he made sans the best fight in the game for some reason

>>717305767
Ironically I think Undertale Yellow did this better, the genocide route (or 'Vengeance' Route) is justified and doesn't try to paint you as pure evil. From the perspective of the MC in Yellow, you kill every last monster to avenge the 5 dead human children, not out of some boring meta commentary of 'you only did it because you were CURIOUS'. Yeah that's true but I don't give a fuck about my motivations because my motivations are boring i want to see the motivation of the person im playing as

>>717305208
>Also Toby litterally hung around on /v/ back in 2012 while making his game you fucking newfag.
So he was an eternal cancer newfag? Not surprised

Christ, even the haters of this game fucking ooze /co/fag, why does anything need to have a "moral" in it? It's a silly ass puzzle game, it's not that deep or threatening unless your skin is very, VERY goddamn brown, you filthy sewage ape

>>717305703
10 years later and you're still mad at a cool dude.
>>717305893
no anon, I know you're kind of retarded but i'm talking about doing things you dont enjoy. Dont you have anything better to do than do things you dont want to do? if you want to experience the genocide route then obviously go do that.

>>717305767
>the game's talking point and moral is that "killing the monsters is bad and you have a responsibility to not kill them"
Maybe if you're illiterate.

>>717305984
but toby literally held me at gunpoint, i'm very smart and i deliberately drop my avatarfagging so i look like a legitimate concerned anon

>>717305893
The game doesn't want you to specifically stop playing it, the point is that if you find seeing it all to be enjoyable, cut the crap about pretending to care what the characters think about you.

>>717306051
Name one character or moment in the story that justifies anything other than "killing them is bad". Not a single fucking character goes "well that's your right to kill me I guess"

>>717301397
>Hey this game is pretty shitty for [insert reasons here]
>OH MY GOD FUCKING MINDBROKEN
Retards on here don't understand what true mindraped Anons look like. The BG3 schizo is mindbroken. The Pizza Tower ones too. Caramel (RIP) also was to an extent.

>>717305767
>killing the monsters is bad and you have a responsibility to not kill them
No? Where did you get that from? Is the moral of Crime and Punishment that it's unethical for you to read it, because you're consuming media where people do unethical things that hold a lot of weight in the narrative? What is this retardation?
>THESE ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS YOU MONSTER
He says he thinks you don't do the things you do out of any commitment to good or evil, but just because you can. And because you can, you have to. It's one of the most famous lines from the game, c'mon.

>>717305589
It's true. Casual fans like OP never get into Deltarune because they're filtered by Undertale. So we never get the chance to hear what they would say if they played it.

>>717306135
why would they do that you silly fuck. you are more powerful than them so their cries mean nothing to you unless you are emotionally attached to them.
>>717306141
>10 years of misquoting the game and acting like you have arguments
interestingly, undertale is not against self defense

>>717305984
Agreed. It's such a small short game too, I have no idea how it can garner so much long term seethe with someone.

>>717306135
>Name one character or moment in the story that justifies anything other than "killing them is bad"
Are you expecting the characters themselves to provide your validation for killing them? What the fuck? Do you think koopas are begging to be turned into living weapons against their own kind? This is either the most bizarre bait I've seen this week, or pure retardation.

>>717306219
>undertale is not against self defense
When did I say otherwise?

>>717306015
but why make a game and then make it purposefully not fun? I think a game that does that is bad

the witcher 3 and rdr2

>>717305920
Yellow rewards you for being evil by making it the only ending where Clover lives. Yellow is the actual "morally confusing" game where being good is actually a bad thing.

>>717306269
its been the prime shitpost for 10 years, catch up senpai
>>717306283
the game is fun, one of my top 10 games, but why would you do a route you dont find fun, or that you dont want to do. you are here because you want to be here. if you are doing the genocide route its because thats what you want and the same goes for the pacifist route, if you thats not what you want, then dont you have anything better to do?

>>717306219
>>717306260
Retards lmao. Almost like it's a pretty ridiculous thing to insist that the game wants you to kill them or play however you like or whatever.

>>717306093
I don't think I've ever seen an Anti-Toby schizo avatarfag (outside of Limbusfag, that is).

>>717306397
>but why would you do a route you dont find fun
because I paid 20 dollars and want my money's worth

>>717306323
killing Martlet was not justice however. if even one monster in existence was worth protecting then martlet was more just than clover.

>>717306491
my time is worth more than my money, if I stop enjoying a game for long enough then I stop playing it. if you aren't enjoying the genocide route and force yourself to finish it then maybe you really do want to be here.

>>717305767
The post that gaped every Undertalefag.

at the end of the day i think it's weird that actual tumblr people take the genocide route much better than 4chan does, in a complete reversal of stereotypes

>>717306585
can I get a refund then?

>>717306509
Even if that's true, the game still rewards you for killing her compared to sparing her.

>>717306668
only if you post your steam hours cutey <3

>>717251952 (OP)
Even the puzzles were mindnumblingly simple and extremely few. Game is linear, dialogue/story is pretty generic.
I think it's just manchildren with mommy-issues and pilled up women that like this.
>>717252151
>>>/trash/ don't you have some udders to goon to

>>717306585
>if a game is unenjoyable don't play it
if a game is unenjoyable it's a bad game lmfao

>>717306668
no, dont buy games that dont appeal to your interests.
>>717306680
the game makes it pretty clear that clover is having trouble finding justification against her during their fight. he completes his mission successfully, but I think that kill alone would be the one to haunt clover and not just because her death is horrifying.

>>717306412
>limbusfag
Hey now, he was a schizo who shat up Limbus threads too. He was trying to start fights.

>>717306772
then dont play it, you clearly have something better to be doing. I personally loved my time with undertale.

>>717251952 (OP)
Are you the guy that found Earthbound too difficult?

Personally my favorite game of all time is Superman 64. Some people say it's a bad game because the gameplay is dogshit and the story is unengaging, but I say it's a great game. They shouldn't have played it if they think it was bad.

>>717306770
>udders

>>717306594
You don't have to reply to yourself to look cool anon, your post is retarded.

>>717306790
>he completes his mission successfully, but I think that kill alone would be the one to haunt clover and not just because her death is horrifying.
Sadly, we don't see that in the game, so it's just your headcanon to justify the game rewarding you for evil.

>Undertare proves gamers wirr put up with mediocre gamepray if the art is good

>>717306969
yeah I think that if they kept making threads complaining about you liking superman 64 too much for years then they would be pretty sad.

>>717307018
>if the art is good
Isn't the art INTENTIONALLY shit

>>717306990
ah Im sorry I thought we were engaging in discussion about the game and not strict absolutes. we can at least see absolutely that there is dialogue about clover looking for a reason to hate her which is interesting, and since he doesn't have that problem with anyone else in the game it suggests something that we can of course only speculate on. I think my speculation is very likely based on this information

>>717307018
sometimes I wonder if part of why /v/ gets like this is because they're genuinely confused why this game hit it big in Japan

>>717307018
Fuck you, Mitsubishi! You didn't give Mario on the snes pores, therefore IT'S BAD DESIGN!

>>717307107
Yes and no. Toby's actually a pretty shit artist, but he also deliberately didn't try too hard with most of Undertale, which is why it looks like a basic bitch RPGmaker project for the most part.

Seriously his early concept sketches are so shit they're funny at times.

>>717307021
If you don't think the threads are enjoyable, then why are you here?

>>717307150
I didn't say it was a bad headcanon. I do agree there's some support. However, it just implicit, so we can't actually know if Clover was in pain for long or if LOVE numbed all.

>>717307264
I enjoy talking about the games I like even if I share those threads with terminally upset people like you! I am choosing to be here.

>>717307216
Japs love dogshit western media, it's a whole thing

These are people that play Korean mobileslop more than any other game type combined

>>717307302
fair, and yeah the high LOVE may have that effect. especially since he's now LV 20 afterwards. I dont imagine he could live a happy life at LV 20 at that point but I guess he didn't jump into the mountain to become happy.
Tonally the genocide route in yellows biggest problem is that the pacifist route is not a good ending on its own accord. undertales world really plays with the "walk not the middle path" and so the only two endings that had a noncannon clover living should have been both pacifist and genocide, with maybe a bit more variety in how the neutral runs go.

>>717307354
That's funny because I'm actually terminally happy shitting on Undertale. Glad we can all enjoy things together.

>>717307609
I dont believe you! you come across as someone who is offended by the messages you imagine the game having. All of which end up being wrong.

>>717307538
>Tonally the genocide route in yellows biggest problem is that the pacifist route is not a good ending on its own accord.
Exactly. Pacifist is so unsatisfying that genocide looks like a good ending. It goes against Undertale's karma of bad actions leaving you unfulfilled while good actions leave you happy.

>>717307378
>Japs love dogshit western media, it's a whole thing
it really is just because this stuff is indie isn't it

>>717307691
Have you tried arguing against the claims anons actually post instead of the ones inside your head

>>717307767
yes! I've done a lot of that during this thread.

>>717307691
>>717307786
Saying something doesn't make it true.

>>717307731
at the very least you can move things around in the pacifist route "a little" and invent a better ending, because when you look at the genocide ending, its not a "bad" ending for the player if you are on board which, realistically you should be if you're choosing to do that.

>>717307867
sorry i mean the pacifist ending in yellow, and the genocide in undertale.

>>717307691
We already know you're painfully stupid, of course you won't believe me.

>>717307734
>it really is just because this stuff is indie isn't it
You know I think one of the biggest things that actually separates "modern" 4chan from the olden days is that back then, people would just outright say it - they're on an anonymous site, there's no way of tracking them, in an environment like back then you would absolutely have way more people just shrug and say that they hate something because it's indie and nothing more
Meanwhile modern 4chan is in such a demographic state that you have way too many people who will spend what is rapidly coming to be 15+ years fuming over a piece of media they don't like but they'll put it under 6 million billion trillion gorillion layers of irony and obfuscating to the point that it's very visibly making them miserable as fuck from the strain compared to what the average dude from back then would've been like

>>717308149
I think the game makes this board seethe even more now because it’s not hiding behind 1200 layers of irony

>>717303156

reminder that the average undertale seetheposter is legitimately mentally ill and we have multiple examples of this
>poopy joe and his 2000 dollar commission spree of toriel scat to shit up undertale threads in 2013-2014
>pic related
>alex R. yard

Pope did the genocide route
Source: trust me bro

>>717308819
its really amazing the depths some people will lose themselves to. it usually helps put these threads into perspective

Toby Fox may be a kike but he can cook a 10/10.

>>717309012
is toby actually jewish or do people say that ironically

>>717309212
He's a WASP with no trace of Jewish ancestry.

>>717309212
>>717309012
worse, he's egalitarian

>>717309212
He's full blown Juden

>>717309212
He was raised as some form of Christian so probably not Jewish

>>717309212
You can tell he's not Jewish because the amount of merch whoring and licensing he could be doing is leagues beyond whatever Fangamer puts out once in a blue moon. You know damn well Netflix would give him millions to make a live action Undertale show if he let them. He's already made enough to retire on and seems content with that.

>>717251952 (OP)
I remember playing undertale the year it came out and just thinking 'that was kinda fun, spider girl was hot'
Not sure why furries decided to latch onto it specifically

>>717309560
But he's making another game he sells for 30$

>>717309631
>$30 when most of the fanbase would pay $60
>5-7 will be free updates instead of paying for them separately
Like I said.

>>717279184
it’s tumblr incarnate and I despise the subhumans that shill and consume this shit. Smug manchildren likely dilating and taking estrogen by the bucketful

>>717296568
>Goku SNES adventure
I don't care if a game is overrated or underrated, if i did enjoy it, then it's good for me, and Chrono Trigger was way greater than i expected it to be, it didn't reinvent the wheel or how JRPG gameplay works, but it's great and that's what matters, be it gameplay, story, artstyle or music.

>>717301397
It's like people shitting on RE6 or DMC2, they can't let it go, they never will, it's inside their DNA at this point, to hate and never try to reconsider.

>>717306790
>and not just because her death is horrifying.
poor girl's eyes melt out of her skull as she's quite literally falling apart, the whole while she's screaming for help. Whether he views it as just or not, such imagery will haunt him for the rest of his life.

>>717310795
>Best girl gets the most horrible death
Frightening, isn't it? The cursed destiny of Justice

>>717308819
>pic
the hell did you find this retard?

>>717307378
Why am I supposed to hate the circus show again?

>>717251952 (OP)
>Frisk I'm going to make you care about everyone and make lots of friends
cool
>Frisk nevermind, I'm going to force you to kill everyone you've ever cared about and leave nothing behind
cool
>Frisk, how about a nice refreshing soda.
HELL TO THE NO.

>>717310975
you're not, or really find your own reasons.

>>717271941
>it was a game people needed
So it's lame millennial nonsense, got it.

>>717308970
I always think of coming here as a form of gambling, because i know the house wins and all i get it's mad at it because it favors the schizos and addicts.

>>717296568
Undertale is basically Chrono Trigger 2.0. Both games tried dumbing down the traditional JRPG experience with shitty gimmicks. But Chrono Trigger is actually a great game while Undertale is decent at best.

>>717252151
You're beyond help.

>>717307378
Westaboos are pretty niche, if anything it's the other way around with crackers trying to force themselves down the japs throats until they like it.
The only western property that seems to be legit popular in Japan is Curious George, I have no idea why.

>>717301397
It's the epitome of millennial writing, you can tell whoever made this game watches Steven Universe, calls himself a "doggo pet parent" and is likely the kind of American manchild that collects funko pops.
Naturally his audience is composed of trannies and aging millennials from /v/, the very bottom of the social ladder.

It's the kind of stuff that even women think it's lame.

>>717268237
Don't forget the early access release model and the fact that it's a retread of the first game

>>717311392
based zoomchad

Nintendogs had like perfect fucking reviews when it first came out on DS but then I actually played it and it was so shallow it didn't even hold my interest as a kid.
I had already played several pet simulators with a lot more depth like the Petz series and Creatures 2, which made it even worse.
That was the first time I thought "wow, reviews literally mean nothing".

>>717275796
The problem with undertale's "emotional writing" is that you only act nice to characters in UT because you have a clear incentive to (getting the best ending).

>>717251952 (OP)
>journo and normgroid
The irony here is that it is also on /v/'s "best game ever" list

>>717311171
It's nostalgia goggles, man. Chrono Trigger has aged very poorly. It's core gameplay loop is a bog-standard RPG one complete with that shitty turn based battle system, which is just so fucking played out and boring in 2025. Plus the story isn't emotionally compelling at all. The characters don't have much depth besides just being anime archetypes. It has cool visuals, music, and the atmosphere sometimes is magical, but that's not enough to carry a game. I guess the game concept of playing around with time sounds interesting on paper, but when the story isn't engaging, it renders it as just another game mechanic.

>>717310913
>The Avian will suffer no matter the world

Outer Wilds.
I was actually unaware of it's reputation when I played, I just saw it on steam and thought a space exploration game sounded nice. But I just thought it was kind of mediocre. The gimmick was decent in theory but for a game about a solar system it felt so needlessly small, each location is essentially one puzzle room, and the writing of the ancients completely took me out of the game since they just talked like modern people posting on social media. It felt smaller than the original Myst with a world I didn't really care about.
Then I found out it's literally considered the best game of all time and a lot of people cry themselves asleep, lamenting that they will never be able to play the game for the first time again.

>>717311983
pain

>>717312086
Nice tit

do we get a normal deltarune threaf after this one

>>717311801
I think the appeal for most people is that it's a JRPG with absolutely no fat. You can boot it up and beat it in a day or two. By the time the gameplay in Chrono Trigger starts to get repetitive you're probably almost finished. Compare that to something like Xenogears, which takes weeks to beat.

I thought the story was pretty good, in fact that's the main draw since the gameplay is just "spam dual techs and heal".

>>717312229
Already one up, depends on if janny is sleeping off his hot pockets yet

>>717290549
This
When you beat up an NPC in final fantasy they don't always die. Sometimes they're knocked out. Sometimes they run away. But in Undertale beating a monster in combat is the same as killing them.

>>717312229
One full of 30 year oldscirclejerking over over cartoon characters

>>717313264
say no more

>>717313264
Das just video games