Thread 717723454

How much does HDR actually matter for vidya?

DO YOU WANT A REAL ANSWER?
very little because it requires the lighting engine of the game and the monitor to have been designed along with the actual in-game lighting to have impact to the detriment of other players
which isn't the case for 99/100 games.
There will be an exception which proves the rule, of course.

>>717723454 (OP)
I turned off hdr because it was fucking up my screenshots

>>717723454 (OP)
I think a few games look good with renoDX applied, since most games are fucked up out of the box and the calibration for HDR by default in gaming is bad. But it's hard to truly gauge how significant it is about what I'm seeing other than i like how bright highlights look and brings the image more to life in some scenarios.

We've had HDR rendering for a long time and nobody ever complained about the SDR output (when done right and actually tone mapped and not just clipped). "HDR" as it's known now is fucking cancer and anyone who works in the industry fucking HATES it.
>b-but look at these highlights that get preserved to when you make everything else so dark you can't see!
Fuck off.

>>717723454 (OP)
HDR is such a meme. You have to do research to find out which monitors have the real HDR and not the shit that just makes the screen so dark you can't see anything.

I downloaded an HDR movie torrent and thought I would get a new cinematic experience on my 1440p monitor, turned it on in my display and NVIDIA settings and sure enough the movie was unwatchable

>>717723454 (OP)
It doesn't. You can do reflections in other much simpler ways. It looks just as good and uses a fraction of the requirements. See for example, all those ps2/gamecube games that did it.

>>717723454 (OP)
Depends on the game. Looks pretty good in Elden Ring

>>717723454 (OP)
HDR looks like shit on most games.

>>717723454 (OP)
Good HDR, particularly on OLED, is visually transformative. Elden Ring is the best example of good HDR in vidya. The game goes from being visually mediocre to truly stunning.

>>717726612
Sekiro also has incredible HDR. Didn't play AC6 on my TV, but I bet it also had good HDR. From Software know what they're doing.

>>717726612
The thing about discussing HDR with people is most haven't experienced what it actually is because every company says their shitty panel is HDR. It's actually really difficult to get a good HDR experience. First off you need a good OLED and even then, it's dependant on the specific game you're playing. A lot of games have shit HDR despite it being in the settings
Anyway, Lies of P has better HDR than Elden Ring

Combined with OLED it’s a game changer. I can’t even stand looking at the lifeless, flat SDR slop anymore

HDR is great when it's implemented well. In the future it will be the standard, I'm sure.

why is no one talking about shit that matters like actually making games that are meant to be played instead of masturbating over graphics?

>>717726612
>>717728624
>>717728705
HDR on OLED sucks because OLEDs still don't get bright enough (peak brightness is a marketing gimmick).
Don't confuse HDR with the per-pixel illumination of OLEDs that is actually great, which is something you get even with SDR.
Only MiniLED can do HDR to the point where it's truly transformative over SDR.

>>717723454 (OP)
every time i try to use hdr its the opposite

/vr/bro here, grafics are for faggots. Try making some good games. They don't even have to be over 100GB.

>>717729213
Zoomers grew up watching video games being played by someone else. Lack of gameplay isn't an issue for them

HDR is good in half life 2
thats it

in 2030 most people should have a HDR capable display and games should stop support sdr

>>717723454 (OP)
inaccurate image because the grayscale isn't washed out

>>717723454 (OP)
HDR looks good if, and only IF, you have a compatible screen. If not, it looks absolutely dogshit, actively worse than SDR. It just applies a film of grey shading to everything.

>>717723454 (OP)
why do I need this technology if I see the difference on my sdr screen?

>>717723454 (OP)
If you have to ask, then you already know it's a waste of system resources.

>>717729924
zoomers are reaching 30
you need a better boogeyman than that

>>717730162
You can't, all comparison images are fake. If your screen doesn't support HDR, you obviously can't see the expanded range. Go down to Best Buy and stare at the TVs to get an idea.

>>717730184
What resources does it waste?

>>717730283
depends on what specifically you're talking about, i was speaking in broad terms. some things waste GPU or CPU power, other things waste developer resources.

>>717730429
It's literally just telling your monitor to make some pixels brighter than the others. There's no performance hit.

Should any modern OLED panel monitor be able to produce acceptable HDR in a pitch black room these days?

>>717723580
>it doesn't matter
True
>because of blah blah blah
False. It doesn't matter in the sense that better graphics "don't matter". But having them makes games nice to look at, and HDR is no exception. In fact, I'd say it's the best visual improvement you can give to your game short of actual framerates. I absolutely LOVE my HDR screen and playing games with HDR on is night and day.

>>717730429
>some things waste GPU or CPU power
HDR does not do this. All modern 3D games render to scene space, then tonemap to display space. The only difference between SDR display space and HDR display space is what numbers you plug into the formula. Only resource increase comes in memory consumption from tonemapping (4k raw SDR at 8bpc is ~24MB, where HDR is 10bpc at ~30MB, and maybe there's slightly longer write time, but that's negligible)

>>717723454 (OP)
EXPLAIN HOW CAN I SEE THE HDR PIC JUST FINE WITH MY SHIT MONITOR RIGHT NOW OR FUCKING DIE IN A FIRE

>>717730247
Them going 30 doesn't contradict my statement

>>717732084
and your "le zoomers" argument has any correlation? sounds like you are blaming a convenient enemy in your head

>>717732002

with a HDR monitor you can see the entire range of colors without the image being re adjusted across multiple frames

>>717730429
Yeah I think we're specifically talking about HDR in this HDR thread. HDR wastes 0% of gpu or cpu power and at least in part because of that fact it's an incredibly worthwhile use of developer resources to implement it properly

>>717732002
Because it's SDR.
It's just meant to approximate what HDR WOULD look like if you could somehow change the exposure level of your eyes.

I dunno about HDR but I got a mini LED monitor and it looks great

>>717730093
This is because SDR SCREENS AREN'T CAPABLE OF DISPLAYING THE HDR COLORSPACE you fucking nitwit, it's literally by design
It's like putting a color image on a b&w TV and saying "man color mode is pointless it just makes everything look lighter"

>>717723454 (OP)
>>717723580
It does not matter, but I do believe it is a great QOL feature if you do not care about realism, but more stylish and cartoony visuals. It makes a great difference. The sad part is because the industry is too busy cramming pixels and textures everywhere rather than trying to focus on color gamut and the appeal of aesthetics everything looks boring, dull, gray and hollywood.

>>717729375
Don't bother, they still think "infinite contrast" is an actual thing and ABL is unnoticeable.

HDR is cool till you get flashbanged by 1500nits the it's eye-wateringly immersive

>>717730093
>Worse than SDR
Absolutely low IQ response. You have not even see an OLED screen at all to know the difference. They show them in stores in the 1st world countries.

>>717723454 (OP)
A lot. It makes colors and lighting pop. For example the sun or the moon can make you lighly squint your eyes like irl. Of course to get the benefits of HDR you need something like a good MiniLED TV with lots of dimming zones. Crappy monitors or dim OLEDs won't really do much

>>717723454 (OP)
game changer

>>717723454 (OP)
Not very much, it's entirely dependent on your monitor supporting it, most HDR monitors have a piss poor HDR range anyways, and worst of all your mark 1 human eyeball will adjust to it and eventually you won't even notice it except when you've just turned it on or off, thats really the killer here, you end up adjusting to it and eventually it doesn't look different to you anymore but it makes everything else that isn't HDR look worse, it's like people who get used to using a monitor with shitty colour balance.
And this isn't even getting into the game properly implimenting a niche feature that relies on the customer to have a certain kind of hardware, That hump I think is only going to be overcome if HDR becomes a standard thing on every monitor.

>>717723454 (OP)
I don't know because I'm one of the unlucky few that is experiencing heaps of driver issues with my 5070. I had to turn off HDR because it was causing all sorts of issues. Should've gone AMD this gen.

hdr is useful for light and reflection probes i think

>>717735819
Do you even have an oled, what are you talking about

>>717730474
>>717731118
>>717733064
hmm

>>717723454 (OP)
Hugely. Just like how OLEDs are the best screens.

/thread

>diffraction spikes
Why they do that
Are you supposed to be seeing the game through someone's eyes or a camera?

>>717725881
>I downloaded an HDR movie torrent
watching movies on a PC is an unpleasant experience all around, I assume TV companies have lobbied to prevent monitors and operating systems + video players to behave in a sensible manner whenever you try to watch something hollywood produced

>>717737572
>first guy only experiences issues when running signal through his AV receiver; stuttering stops when he connects it directly to the TV
>second guy no longer experiences the poor performance (only experiences VRR flicker which is monitor-specific)
Either driver issues or hardware that didn't support 10-bit color information. Try again. And use a less faggot source that I can't easily trace to debunk you next time.

>>717726524
this but when it's done right it's fucking kino, like ff7 remake (not rebirth) or REmakes

>>717738673
meds

>>717735943
Nvidia has had a number of HDR related driver bugs since the release of blackwell.

>>717739281
The REmakes have broken HDR which is why - at least on pc - you need renodx to fix it. Cyberpunk also has broken HDR.

HDR is pure memery - the only standard that is true HDR is trueblack 1000 and no available screen hits that. HDR on an LCD based screen is a non-starter.

>>717739517
i must be confusing it with something else. it's a shame how rare it is to find good implementation

If you have an OLED monitor it's nice to have a game properly setup for it. There is no reason not to use it -if- you don't use Peak 1000 nits mode (because ABL kicks in hard otherwise). It'll still be better than anything you can get from any VA or IPS panel whatsoever.
The problem is HDR is not an on/off thing. It requires tweaking and every damn developer out there is doing something different. RenoDX mods help out a lot. RTX HDR and AutoHDR aren't amazing but in some cases they're better than the native solution.

>>717739460
Must be blackwell specific, I had no HDR issues on my 4070 and I always update my drivers whenever (I've been aware of other issues in the latest releases though). I know for a fact that it doesn't do too well on linux, but linux nvidia drivers are fucked up to the point the latest 580 beta is a royal mess.

>>717723454 (OP)
I don't even consider buying any solo game without proper HDR or at least decent results with nvHDR.

>>717729375
I'll be enjoying all the bright neon lights of Night City that don't care about fullscreen brightness.

>>717739803
>The problem is HDR is not an on/off thing
The infuriating part is it should be. We should be living in a world where the display reports to the host system its capabilities and games would respect that through source based tonemapping. You'd turn HDR on and get as good experience as your screen can deliver regardless of mastering.

Instead it is like the retro encabulator video of technical jargon to configure it. It doesn't help recent "HDR is a meme" is coming from switch 2 users because nintendo's calibration tool is pants-on-head retarded.

>>717730162
Your phone probably has an excellent HDR capable screen.
Go check some shit on youtube.

Where HDR shines the most in OLEDs is darker games with a lot of highlights. It doesn't work on a lot of modern games that like having next to no contrast and everything looks washed the fuck out.
Like for instance, Ori and the Will of the Wisps is often brought up as an example because the game is full of highlights and shadows, so it's much more of a better experience, visually speaking, on a display that can achieve good HDR. But then you have absolute dogshit like Star Wars Outlaws where everything on screen is just desaturated orange and grainy shit, where it would not matter. There are games that need quite a bit of tweaking on HDR as well like Cyberpunk where nighttime is sublime and daylight is just vomit inducing dogshit.

Injecting HDR into older games is sublime. Star junction in GTA IV really POPS with HDR.

>>717723926
I've gotten so used it now on my desktop I can't turn it off...

>>717725881
>I downloaded an HDR movie torrent
And you were viewing it with what player?
Even MPCHC needs a mod to properly play hdr.

>>717739982
Well, the switch 2 didn't help, but most sub $500 monitors also being "capable" don't help either. The way HDR is marketed in some places, it's just "higher saturation". It's sad that in concept, HDR is practically an upgrade to SDR, where it adds information and improves picture quality, but in practice there's all this bullshit going on.

>>717723454 (OP)
As mucg has saying you have HDR matters compared to not saying anything at all cause you don't. Literally just that. No one will ever notice the difference otherwise.

>>717740150
Older games seemed less washed out.
Try Deus Ex 1 with HDR. It's absolutely fucking nuts.

>>717740428
Contrast is verboten to the modern developer. I partially suspect it is because games are tuned for the decade old 600:1 IPS TV pannels everyone uses.

>HDR10
>HDR10+
>Dolby vision
This is why nobody takes HDR seriously.

>>717723454 (OP)
90% of games don't even support HDR. If you turn on HDR with most games you'll get a washed out look that looks worse than SDR. Only modern AAA movie games tend to support HDR. You will notice the difference but it isn't that big.

It's also only worth it if you have a OLED, don't bother if you're on LCD.

>>717723454 (OP)
i can already tell this is gonna be a thread full of people who think they know what they're talking about but really are just retards

>>717739803
>The problem is HDR is not an on/off thing.
>>717739982
>>717740404
It's the benefit of HDR, it's the drawback of HDR, and it may very well be the downfall of HDR, all in one.
SDR was designed around already existing technology, so it was easy to manufacture monitors and displays that could hit it. sRGB/Rec.709 primaries could easily be hit by monitors, and the standard of using the 100% signal value to represent "comfortable white" was also easy to hit. Current HDR standards, on the other hand, are designed for displays that simply do not exist at all. Rec2100 uses the Rec. 2020 color primaries, which do not exist outside of exotic Laser Projectors, the 10000 nit absolute limit is not hit by even the most sophisticated reference grading displays, and the entire concept of "absolute" brightness is ill-advised when everyone has different preferences for a comfortable brightness. Not to mention there's no standard way of implementing highlight clipping or tonemapping in general for the inevitable display that can't reach the brightness levels of a particular piece of media. Games can at least dynamically change their image data to accomodate this, but movies and images are FUCKED.

>>717738673
That's why I just pipe everything from jellyfin to kodi on my TV

>>717741042
>but movies and images are FUCKED.
Is the entire point of the dynamic metadata dolby vision and HDR10+ support meant to combat this?

>>717723454 (OP)
I don’t care for it on my PC, but I have an OLED TV and I like HDR on my console, cyberpunk and SOTTR looked gorgeous with DV and HDR though sometimes too dark inside some tombs

>>717741245
I honestly have no idea. There's remarkably little information on what a monitor or display actually does with the metadata it receives. Needless to say, unless there's something I'm missing, each monitor handles the metadata differently, which means the problem of having a "universal" image, or even just a "universal" dynamic tonemap based on display capabilities, is impossible.
I do all my HDR work using ACES tonemapper, but others may prefer a less contrasty, more filmic tonemapper. As far as I'm aware, there's no way to specify the tonemapper's particular "Look", even in Dolby vision. But I'm not a professional, just a hobbyist.

WHy do some games have HDR sliders that literally don't react? Whether I have Windows auto HDR on or off doesn't make a differencebut >I do have HDR turned on and running

>>717742373
They do react - your screen just can't display the ranges the slider is covering.

I can get HDR to work in a lot of games but videos are a weird one.
I'm using mpv currently and I followed a guide that was posted on their github with the right settings. But the "right" settings make the supposedly HDR videos look fairly washed out. Not bad, just not great either. I can see the highlights and such, I have set it up so that it can target the max nits on my display, but it's like there's less contrast overall.
https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/issues/10565

On games I usually look for RenoDX support. I'll say that there's no way to make Expedition 33 look that good with HDR on my display. Some places look nice, but a lot of them have just practically white skyboxes and if I were to set my display to peak nits, ABL would kick in so hard I couldn't see fucking anything.

>>717723454 (OP)
HDR doesnt matter
color accuracy doesn't matter: TN, VA, IPS, all the same
resolutions above 1080p dont matter
aspect ratio wider than 16:9 doesnt matter
buying AMD and high end videocards is beyond retarded
all game developers are talented and their games are optimized
8 GB is all you need but even that is a reach
most consumers impulse buy to offset for their sad lives

>>717742815
luv me chromatic aberration. Looks just like a visual effect hollywood eliminated 30 years ago for the that pure cinema kino vibe ya feel me?

>>717742815
good lord that looks like dogshit
where did things go wrong

HDR is great

HDR is just a shitty filter that makes your game look awful and does nothing. Is this thread trolling?

>>717742717
I don't know how it is on Windows but try
"target-colorspace-hint" without the "=yes". I have "vo=dmabuf-wayland" but that's a Linux thing and I think "gpu-next" should work for Windows.

>>717743423
>I have a monitor that doesn't support HDR properly and when I enable it it looks like shit
Yeah sure, the thread is trolling, everyone else is in the wrong

>>717740238
Do you know any good mods for MPCHC?

>>717743423
>Is this thread trolling?
yes it is, it's ltieral spam that gets reposted all the time for (you)s

use this if you want HDR to look good in Windows 11

>>717743219
Being stuck at 1080p for 15 years.

>>717743874
I just downloaded an ICC profile provided by my monitor manufacturer.

>>717743985
If your monitor has multiple modes as it should (True Black 400, Peak 1000 nits and such), you should calibrate it depending on your settings, not just grab an icc profile.

>>717729375
>haloing garbage
>hdr
Just stop LCD bro, it's over.

>>717723454 (OP)
looks fine on my sdr display

>>717744193
Peak nits is a meme and I do use manufacturer supplied ICC profiles for the relevant modes

>>717744984
If the manufacturer supplies those sure. Not all of them do.

is it worth going from a 1080p 144hz TN monitor (AOC) to a 1440p 180hz IPS one (LG)?

>>717723454 (OP)
HDR doesn't matter because the vast majority of modern screens are not capable of taking advantage of the wider range of brightness and colors. The Switch 2 being released with an HDR screen, and at the same time being incapable of truly taking advantage of HDR, is just the norm in this industry, not an anomaly.
If every screen left the factory ready to actually achieve the brightness required for HDR, in addition to having a color gamut wide enough for it, then HDR would be a total game changer in the way we see video game images. But we are at least 15-20 years away from that becoming a reality...

>>717743423
Not even close, retard.

>>717734325
This person can't read

>mfw racing down the mountain in the forza horizon 4 dlc fortune island at night as lighting strikes only to end up the glowing neon festival site
That was what made me a believer.

>>717725881
You need minimum 1000 nits monitor or TV to properly get the HDR look that's intended. I have a 500 nits TV and 400 nits monitor. With the Samsung Contrast settings I can make games look nice on TV. Like Breath of the Wild with the right HDR settings. Hoof, the game looks gorgeous now. But on my monitor I literally can't play Mass Effect Legendary Edition with the intended HDR setup because everything is so dark I can't see shit.

>>717740191
Just fucking do it and you'll get used to it over a few days.

>>717747826
Let me guess, you monitor is an IPS panel?

>>717742815
chat is this true? like the image looks fine so i'm more inclined to agree than to disagree with the points made here

HDR has been a game changer to me. I can't play my anime games without. They look so dull in SDR.

>>717748305
bro the img looks like shit. oblivion had better quality with msaa x2 in 2006.

>>717723580
i think you kinda retarded. argument that systems should work well with eachother is not an argument, it's a fact.

But also i wanted to add that resent games already compute lighting with hdr in mind. it's just that older ones lack hdr output.

>>717723926
if you just snapshot with Nvidia app it adjusts the screenshots so they work fine on regular monitors.

>>717748491
you needed a One Thousand dollar videocard to run oblivion at 1080p and MSAA x2 at the time.

>>717748430
yeah, CP2077, Dragons Dogma 2, Wuchang, Oblivion etc all look shit when I try and play them without HDR

>>717748874
*modern game compute lighting with hdr in mind, but of those that do, older ones just lack hdr output. (like hl2 ep2)

>>717748918
graphics cards werent strong enough in general at the time. when next gen radeon hit, it could do 2-4x msaa at very little cost due to its architecture sram.

>>717748960
even if games dont have good native support, dxvk or renodx can fix it. I use HDR in pretty much all my titles.

>>717749131
but /v/ told me old games always ran great and poor performance is nu devs being retarded!

>>717744365
Your eyes naturally add glare and haloing around bright pixels surrounded by black non-illuminated pixels. Dimming zones do the job well enough as long as you have a lot of them.

Why would anyone fall for meme colour spaces like rec 2020? You can't even see that far.

>>717750883
>the CIE 1931 spectral lotus
>a funny curved graph designed to represent the extent of human vision
>lmao you can't see that far

>>717751559
Even supposing what you say is true (which it isn't) we would've moved on from srgb decades ago if we could perceive more.