Thread 718276412

When did the decline of Magic begin?

>>718276412 (OP)
After return to ravnica

>>718276412 (OP)
the rot set in much earlier but id say the walking dead secret lair thing was when it was officially in the cash grab phase

>>718276412 (OP)
It's fine
Doctor Who/Spiderman are the only truly slop expansions, not including secret lair

>make a really good return to form through the FF set that fits perfectly which some kino cards
>instantly follow it up with a fucking marvel set
Genuinely deserves the fall

>>718276752
>return to form through the FF set that fits perfectly which some kino cards

Explain? What went so right with the FF set?

>>718276412 (OP)
it was rotten soon after the beginning.
nerds treating cardboard like stocks is retarded

>>718276808
Nothing he just likes anime shit

The first hint of rot setting in was Terror. As soon as the game introduced instant-speed two-mana removal, the game was doomed to die of power creep.

The Jacetice League (aka "we want the Marvel audience") was a strong sign that death was rapidly approaching. The last vestages of the game's soul had been hollowed out by that point, and the devolution of the art from "whatever looks cool and fits thematically with the card" to "generic fantasy that might as well be AI generated" was confirmation of that.

The crossover shit was the final nail in the coffin.

lorwyn. fuck planeswalkers, fuck the jacevengers and fuck wotc's obsession with copying marvel. from there, we got the cringe that lead up to war of the spark and to a lesser extent march of the machine (endgame). what an absolute dogshit resolution to a 30 year story. literally all that worldbuilding developed just to go out as a fucking marvel ripoff. even down to the zalfir phasing back in it was so incredibly obvious i couldn't fucking believe they tried that shit. as for the game itself, project booster fun was the day magic went to shit. collector boosters, play boosters, secret lair, universes beyond, all a cancer on the game it used to be. should've been a completely separate game, but nope. had to force that shit into magic. millions of variants within the same sets, serialization, foils being cheaper than non-foils. we think it's bad now, it's gonna get SO much worse. fuck magic, fuck wotc and ESPECIALLY fuck mark dogwater.

When they started pandering to faggots, proving that they were willing to throw away their existing fanbase to chase money. In hindsight it's not surprising at all that they turned it into Fortnite the Gathering.

>>718276808
Probably in that it's fantasy with predominantly white characters and they tried to uphold some integrity of the series, unlike the LotR shit.
Just guessing.

>>718276412 (OP)
Eldrazi

>>718277369
>The first hint of rot setting in was Terror
Is this a joke?

>>718276808
>Fantasy
>Art looks pretty
>Square Enix holding a gun to WotC's head to not fuck with the art or characters like censoring, blacks everywhere, etc

with FIRE design, and it became beyond redemption when commander universes beyond bullshit became standard and long standard was added

>Tried to get into MtG
>See these cards from this set and think the Phyrexian designs look really cool
>This was around Duskmourn when I discovered them and no one uses them anymore
I'm upset still, I really like the designs of the white Phyrexians.

>>718276412 (OP)
War of the spark

>>718278327
>>This was around Duskmourn when I discovered them and no one uses them anymore

>no one uses them anymore
Would be nice if I still had a casual group. I don't care if I win, usually, I just want to see how my deck plays out and have a good time.

>>718276412 (OP)
When they stop doing set "blocks", so, after Rivals of Ixalan.

MTG is completely dead, it got Funkofeyd. They completely gave up on the setting and OG lore.

>wizard who is good at magic versus fire wizard

lame

give me Godzilla versus Optimus Prime
give me Bilbo Baggins versus Sephrioth
give me Sonic (who collects rings) a The One Ring deck
Show me Spongebob versus Captain America.

>>718278516
I only got into magic a year ago and my entire experience has been drafting old sets and cubes and casual commander games with a group of IRL friends playing with proxied cards. It has been really fun.

>>718278327
You can build around these cards in Brawl/Commander.

>>718276412 (OP)
When crossover slop began

>>718276412 (OP)
At first the game had very fun storytelling and worldbuilding, although many of the cards were plain mechanically. Then they leaned into mechanical diversity, which worked for most people, although some boomers still yearned for the old stories. Then when that became too hard, they stooped to selling cards based purely on MTG character recognition. Pathetic but at least it was coherent. Finally, we entered the slop era, where they will put any marketable character on a card and damn the consequences.

>>718276412 (OP)
The reserve list. If you aren't playing your cards bareback because you don't want your hideously expensive pieces of cardboard dinged up then they're doing it wrong

>>718276412 (OP)
planeswalkers

>>718276412 (OP)
Introduction of planeswalkers.

I love rk post art.

>>718276412 (OP)
Battle for Zendikar

>>718279031
>If you aren't playing your cards bareback
It's easier to shuffle sleeved though and they do get dinged up, regardless of rarity, and going through the trouble of replacing them when they no longer conform physically would be a waste.

>when they added mythic rares
>when they made planeswalkers into a card type
>when they changed the rules so combat damage didn't use the stack
in other words when I stopped being a kid and quit playing. sorry magic fans, my presence was the only thing keeping the game on the right track.

reject magic embrace duel masters

FIRE

>>718276412 (OP)
Modern frames

Once they started adding niggers to the game

>>718280023
>>when they changed the rules so combat damage didn't use the stack
Oof.
It's been so long since this rule change I forgot it ever worked like that.

>>718276412 (OP)
last set i played was the Loywyn stuff
that was the when they introduced planeswalkers, which looked and played dumb, but the cancer was mostly still contained
there were probably a few more sets afterwards that were good, but not many

lots of things happened over time but the #1 thing that ruined every aspect of magic is the popularization of and designing for commander.

the frames got worse and worse with every update until they pretty much said "fuck consistency"
i hate how every single card these days has 20 pages of text crammed on to each one, simpler cards are usually better

>>718278049
No it is not. Once 2 mana instant speed removal that works on almost anything is introduced to the game, creatures that cost more than 3 mana become effectively worthless unless they do something even if they get removed immediately, or can win you the game by themselves. The introduction of cheap instant removal was the beginning of the end because it means that the actually fun game of "summon monsters and pit them against each other" is no longer a reliable path to victory. Strategy becomes boiled down to one of three archetypes: brainless aggro rushdown where you seek to overcome removal by just laying your whole hand down in 2 turns, boring value midrange where you seek to win with an unending parade of overtuned multicolored Rares and Mythics that do something even when they're removed immediately (because they will be), and grindy do-nothing control where you seek to keep both sides of the board empty by spamming removal and counterspells until you lay down your win condition and your opponent just scoops.

Any CCG that doesn't want this boring garbage to be their future needs to limit hard removal MUCH more harshly than MTG did. 2 mana instant removal and 4 mana board wipes is FAR too little effort to make creatures just not fucking matter.

>>718280663
>No it is not. Once 2 mana instant speed removal that works on almost anything is introduced to the game
I'm asking more if it's a joke that the game was doomed to fail from the start or if you don't know when Terror was printed.

>>718280503
It was fine when it wasn't always an afroed black woman or shit like Aragorn. Agrus Kos is my nigga and always will be

I did not care for planeswalkers and quit soon after. Kithkin themed set I think
I check back in every couple of years, see some of the new cards and check back out right away

>>718280758
A lot of cards printed back then were broken. They COULD have just stopped. But nope, they doubled down by reprinting it and eventually power creeping it even further.

>>718280604
Different card types having different frames is a welcome update to MtG from modern game design. I am 100% with you on increased card complexity though

Should i sell my cards or keep em

>>718280925
Probably sell, you can always play Cockatrice if you actually want to play again.

>>718280342
so literally the first expansion set?

>>718280901
>A lot of cards printed back then were broken
Yeah mostly unintentionally though.
I was just trying to figure out if, because the way you phrased it, you thought Terror was more modern.

did anyone noticed that Gatherer got a hideous makeover recently and deleted all the comments too?

>>718280901
what were they thinking?

>>718279236
Mercadian Masques.. sovl....

>>718280974
I said niggers, not black people.

I think it was pretty fucking cool up until around the mid 2000s and arguably pretty good still until like 2010 or 2012 but it went off the rails after that. I think it’s just the same pattern everywhere.


>thing is super cool in the 90s and early 2000s
>maybe somewhat simple or primitive in some ways but pure and no bullshit either
>by mid 2000s things are getting fancier and more polished and more complicated
>still cool but something is changing and it feels like a more watered down version of what we had before
>some things get better but some things get worse still okay
>late 2000s and early 2010s
>Thing is almost unrecognizable and feels like an alien franchise
>still has a fan base but fan base feels different than the one before
>now there are two fan bases
>one for the content from the past
>a new fanbase which is for the new content


this happened to a lot of stuff it happened to a lot of videogame franchise it happened to warhammer 40k it happened to videogame consoles there are parallels everywhere it happened to starwars also

>>718276412 (OP)
Mythic rares

>>718281191
this card makes me laugh every. single. time.

>>718281082
>recently and deleted all the comments too?
DELETED all of the comments?
I remember a long time ago that there weren't any new comments being made and assumed they were just blocking commenting, but they DELETED the existing comments?

>>718281384
a "bug" ended posting
but they nuked all that crystallized wisdom like a month ago
i suppose it was easier than trying to sanitize all the comments for the Modern Audience (tm)

>>718281486
Damn.
I liked the comments for old cards even from the same era that I played just because people had different perspectives either from their playgroup vs mine or more competitive.

And how the fuck does Gatherer have worse quality images than scryfall?

>>718281267
Reminds me of black anon that would post a pic of his hands on a random game

>>718278327
>and no one uses them anymore
Sheoldred is still like $60.

>>718276412 (OP)
Planeswalkers

>>718281578
if nothing else, it was a great source of ideas for crazy combos
some of the jokes people posted were pretty great too
i guess there's no incentive for WotC to maintain it, though. hence why a site designed for the secondhand market is so much better.

>started Mirage
>stopped at Darksteel
>the rise and fall of countless meta
>know nothing of these nu-cards
>drown myself in sorrow and nostalgia

>>718281143
I wasn't around when skullclamp came out, but I am going to assume the thought was "the -1 is a downside!".
Like how they were shocked to learn people were +1ing oko on their opponents stuff. I mean jeez, who would have known a repeatable beast within on a body would be good??

>>718276808
Good setting, good art and characters (All Squaresoft so they couldn't insert black people beyond canon characters), good cards that are fun in draft and limited.

My favorite card

>>718281143
Skullclamp predates token spam, the designers didn't think players would sacrifice real, paper 1-toughness creatures to this thing

>>718280765
>terese used herself as a reference when painting this FoW art
we stan our terf queen

>>718281143
How is that broken?

>>718276808
FF unironically feels more "magic" than real magic sets we've gotten lately.

>>718276412 (OP)
when they decided to start making Standard sets with Commander in mind
not sure exactly when that was, Gatewatch or something

>>718276412 (OP)
people like alpha investments who turned card games into portfolio's, then you have things like scalpers and pack searching or weighing packs and you now have a completely destroyed community of worthless cardboard being charged 10's of thousands completely inflating the price and entry point to card games as a whole, i have nothing but contempt for whats been done to the card game community because of fucking pieces of shit like alpha investments.

>>718276412 (OP)
Secret Lairs.

>>718282206
It really didn't start happening seriously until this decade.

>>718282174
Aetherdrift sucks, yes, but tech bullshit was already featured in Kaladesh and Neon Kamigawa.

>>718276412 (OP)
Snapcaster Mage
I’ll post it every thread until you retards realize

>>718282206
the commanderfication of mtg is waaaay overblown and didnt really get going until the dominaria rerun prior to amonkhet

>>718282283
Stay mad, nigger

>>718276412 (OP)
I think the first really really bad thing was Oko thief of crowns, or maybe when they went banning old cards for wrongthink, whichever came first I think these were around the same time
Crossover content as regular standard sets was easily the final nail in the coffin, Final fantasy itself isn't so bad because it fit the aesthetic better than half the recent in universe sets but then they're jumping right into things that really don't, spiderman was a fucking retarded choice for this, I guess avatar is kind of ok but still not as ok as final fantasy, at least disneys fuckery means they dodge having to put spiderman in arena

>>718282364
That's the consequence of UB sets. They of course are going to feature named creatures.

Planeswalkers, no further argument. Powercreep always happens over time, bullshit rules are inserted here and these, but planeswalkers represented a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire game. YOU the player are planeswalkers. YOU are the special magic-wielder and you are engaging in a duel with another planeswalker. Having planeswalkers be their own cards means that context is completely gone, you are just playing a card game. Such a fundamental disrespecting of the entire premise of the game showed a lack of foresight and a disdain for the foundations of the game. It would only lead to treacherous bullshit, such as what we have now with card sets from other media franchises.

Once you betray your core values, anything becomes permissible.

>>718281267
Fucking incredible, lmao. I can't even be mad at this level of audacity.

>It's 2003, I'm quitting Magic since they're changing the card frame
>It's 2007, I'm quitting Magic since they're making planeswalker cards
>It's 2009, I'm quitting Magic since they're removing damage on the stack
>It's 2015, I'm quitting Magic since they're making expeditions a blatant cash grab
>It's 2019, I'm quitting Magic since they're using outside IPs
>It's 2020, I'm quitting Magic since they're unnecessarily banning cards due to woke
>It's 2025, I'm quitting Magic since I can't afford a FF collector's box

>>718282472
of course no accountability for ruining a community for profit and making the barrier to entry unfairly high for people, kids these days won't get the satisfaction i got as a kid being able to open unsearched packs and actually get valuable cards one of the few things left in the real world that brings people together was ruined by for profit faggots like this dirtbag and i have nothing but the worst things to say about him.

>>718282480
>spiderman
Excuse me? Marvel characters are in the game?

>>718282439
I was away at the time (and wasn't around for the original kamigawa) but holy shit when I learnt about it did it piss me off, I was aware beforehand of how wizards blamed the flop on people not liking those more niche aspects of jap culture while people on 4chan were blaming mechanics, but even if we go with the idea of yokai stuff being too niche back then it isn't now, people would have resonated with it far more today there was no need to totally rewrite the setting.

>>718282283
>He still blames Rudy
>He still thinks the issue with magic is the price of entry and not the fact that Wizards is printing more sets per year than ever before to hold up Hasbro's dying empire

>>718281143
they changed it at the last minute and didn't properly test it. I don't recall the specifics but it was something like 4 mana to play and +1/+1 instead. So they lowered the stats and cost on it without really thinking about it.

>>718282159
you equip it to a 1 toughness creature or token and it immediately kills the creature/'token, triggering your draw 2 cards effect.
Its very popular in Edgar decks or token decks to generate value.

>>718282578
bro everybody fucking quit. Modern is dead and has been for years, wotc stopped supporting pioneer as an official format, standard is exclusive to Arena, and legacy/vintage exist entirely on MTGO.

alpha investments is a faggot

when modern was invented in 2011.

>>718282661
As a regular standard set, they've been milking crossovers for a while but only just very recently went as low as making them regular sets, first was final fantasy next is spiderman and after that is Avatar (elemental niggers not blue niggers)

>>718282708
>standard is exclusive to Arena
And sanctioned tourneys. But even those get a fifth of the attendance than your average casual commander friday at your LGS.

8th edition and Mirrodin.

>>718282578
I quit magic between Shards of Alara and Zendikar.

>>718282505
Balders gate, the first UB set, didn't come out until 2022. You can see the spike happen before then.
Fucking modern horizons 3 had commander bait cards and precons.

>>718276412 (OP)
>>718276412 (OP)
playing modern and standard with my niggas in the 2010s was fun even if mtg was kinda starting to get pozzed
2018 was the death of the game though they killed everything i liked about it and pro tour coverage got worse and cfb/scg eventually basically died

>>718282480
can I change my answer for first really really bad thing
>>718282540
it predated me but from the start of playing I hated them, mercifully when I returned for a bit recently they seemed a lot less abundant but as a flip side to that so did planeswalker hate cards, and I still hate them every time they hit the field (I can almost forgive 2 faced cards that turn into planeswalkers but the flip has to actually be a tricky thing to achieve)

I especially fucking hated every gideon card, and then they made him worse by removing the uniqueness rule

>>718276412 (OP)
When they added Planeswalkers

>>718282121
>Skullclamp predates token spam
it didn't, and even if it did it was printed in the block full of free creatures

>>718282439
Two wrongs don't make a right. Aetherdrift felt very stupid and I am mad they lumped amonkhet in with it because they were too scared to do a proper return set.

>>718276412 (OP)
Stopped playing at Champions of Kamigawa...I was like 16 and a new addiction came into my life, WoW, modern MTG looks stupid at fuck tho

>>718282578
>It's 2003, I'm quitting Magic since they're changing the card frame

That's me.

>>718282753
Modern was great until they banned Splinter Twin though

>>718282685
yes i absolutely do blame rudy because people like him popularized shit like black lotus and is directly responsible for garbage like "the million dollar charizard" its a piece of shiny plastic on cardboard its not a fucking million dollars, the only thing you've done is try and turn a physical card game for kids and young adults etc into "gold" for boomers to invest in and sit on like its their retirement plans, you've hollowed out the entire community and look at whats left of it now you fucking piece of shit?

>>718276412 (OP)
>>>/tg/

OP are you lost?

>>718282903
>You can see the spike happen before then.
Ah yes, 2020 was Commander Legends which introduced several new legendary creatures.

>wotc constantly says every UB set has sold better than the last
>bootlickers on /tg/ (redditors) always use this as an epic pwn that the game isnt for you anymore chuddie
>actual hasbro financial reports show that their financials havent increased that much because every crossover is offset by the huge cost of royalties

>>718276808
The designers actually like FF so they put effort in

>>718282578
>Be new to MTG
>buy a Foundation booster cause why not
>Pull some rare holo
>Look it up
>It's worth less than some common crap I pulled from the same booster
What a stupid fucking game.

>>718277607
Planeswalkers seem like a cool concept at the beginning then they start cranking out shit like this

>>718282903
>Balders gate
D&D/Baldur's Gate kind of makes sense at least from an organizational perspective and that it is in the same genre.

>>718282578
I only proxy
It lets you do whatever you want and even for universes beyond slop you can place your own magic shit over it if you like the effect but hate the Doctor queer in the niggers of destiny UB.

>>718276412 (OP)
Planeswalkers
Mythic Rares
Tribal/Kinfolk Set
Jitte
Kamigawa block

Whichever of those came first.
Eldrazi was the absolute retarded deathknell.

>>718283272
>+2 with zero draw backs AND you get to scope your own library if you want
>0 to draw a free card and put any 2 back in the deck
>for a measly -1 you can BTFO any creature
>-12 to win the game
Who in the FUCK signed off on this??????????????????????????

>>718283272
And now it's unplayable trash

Ice Age

>>718278858
The reason people get so salty about the state of modern magic is that the game itself is incredibly solid and while there are some fundamental issues with the color pie it's a very deep and pleasant game. WotC is just lighting that goodwill on fire to turn it into funko pops because nothing else at Hasbro makes money.

>>718283495
iirc that card was way weaker until a last minute change which nobody tested or approved besides the guy who made the change

>>718276412 (OP)
decline is debatable since as soon as you hit the peak of Magic it never gets better than that by definition.
Battle For Zendikar era was the beginning of the end/Magic turning to abject shit though. A couple of the blocks after that were salvageable but the switch to 2 set blocks, the introduction of the jacetice league, 'mechanics' like support which are literally just 'put a +1/+1 counter on some creatures' and the moving away from horizontal mechanical design all set things up for failure there.
If you want earlier, the second Commander precons (the first set was fine because like Planechase, Archenemy, Conspiracy, etc... Commander was meant to be a gimmick summer product rather than the de facto reason MTG exists).
If you want later than BFZ, Ikoria. The single greatest design mistake MtG ever made (and I am including combo winter, eldrazi winter, and Mirrodin) was printing a card with cycling 1. It represented the complete lack of knowledge or care about mechanical design, which is the heart and soul of the game.

>>718283272
This card turned my friend from a red into a blue millnigger.

>>718283595
this
I get depressed looking at my old legacy/commander decks knowing I will never play them again. Im somewhat morbidly curious at how bad the commander scene at my LGS looks given the raping of MTG by UBslop.

Only good set in the last 10 years desu

>>718283880
Yeah, I've got a massive desk that's 5+ feet long covered with stacks and stacks of cards that I was collecting and sorting for various EDH decks or brewing. For the past several years even though I'd periodically buy a box from a thrift store or poke around through the piles I've lost the spark to actually play, and if I don't want to play it's hard to work on the decks.

>>718276412 (OP)
When they stopped including booklets with the sets that gave you a bunch of cool lore

>>718283927
it's true

>>718282174
Very true.
>>718283851
All it takes is 1 Gaea’s Blessing or Kozilek to snub them.

>>718283475
>Kamigawa block
but kamigawa gave us this treasure

>>718282668
>but holy shit when I learnt about it did it piss me off
loser

commander faggots get the rope

>>718283927
>>718284098
Flavorwise.
The mechanics are still the same do thing draw card +1/+1 counter shit though.

>>718283014
You blame Rudy and not Jake Paul? The dude who actually sparked the entire Pokemon boom that trickled down toward everything else?

I 100% blame Paul for the shit that's happening now and WotC for the shit they're pulling with collector versions of stuff.

>>718284278
There's no getting around modern card design, but it was fun spamming carrot cakes in draft.

>>718284346
everyone who turned card games into an investment portfolio are equally to blame and i hate all of them, they turned a phsyical card game that brought people together in real life into a luxury hobby for the rich, its like putting a down payment on a house to get a decent deck in some of these games and thats fucking absurd bullshit, you aren't building a thriving community with dying boomers and e-celebrities like post malone buying that billion dollar lord of the rings card its fucking bullshit and i hate all of you.

Post the card that got you into Magic in the first place

>>718284646
there is almost nothing left now in the real world card games was one of the few things that still had its roots in the real world, and now look? its like a yacht club these days and thats so fucking sad to see.

>>718284646
>>718284887

Calm down and take your meds, schizo.

>>718284873
I pulled a foil one from my first ever pack of cards, and I've been a green player ever since.

>>718285013
you have no argument, you know im fucking right so shut the fuck up you stupid faggot, card games aren't what the fucking used to be and you damn well know im right.

I still greatly enjoy Magic outside of UBshit. Edge of Eternities was kino

>>718284646
Magic was an investment portfolio from day 1. The Reserved List wasn't made because they felt like it, retard. These people are cancerous, but they are inbuilt into the genre because of how it fucking works.

>>718285019
You got timmypilled hard I see

>>718285170
I did, but I skewed golgari as I realized that while it's important to have the biggest creature on the board, you can do that with a 1/1 if everything the opponent plays dies.

>>718284873
you already know im a basic bitch my nigga

>>718285019
alara was so fucking sick Im kinda jelly you got a foil of one of the sick ass mythics it had

>>718283629
Isn't this pretty much the story for every eventually banned card?
>well nadu originally was a flash creature who gave all your other permanents flash
>but that was boring so we changed it last second and did no playtesting, oops!

>>718284873
I don't know if I can say a card got me into magic but this thing was the face of the precon that was my first magic purchase, I went into the store with the explicit purpose of getting into magic (already knew I wanted to play Izzet)

the actual big exciting part of the deck once you start playing with it is actually ensoul artifact and the shrapnel blast but I guess they figured the big cool dragon was more enticing on a store shelf than a pair of giant scissors (i'm also not sure they ever use noncreatures as face cards) but there was another dragon in the deck that actually tied into the artifacts theme they could have used

>every format is dead outside of commander
So what happens if the tcg bubble ever pops? Can commander with no investors propping up sales keep the game alive?

>>718285230
>A fellow golgari enjoyer as well

>>718285348
pauper is fine.

>>718285348
MTG is the one card game that I don't think will ever actually die. In 20 years I don't know if lorcana or one piece will be around, but magic will be.

>>718285319
It's what happened with Thassa's Oracle too. They wanted it to just have the scry ability and everyone thought the win the game was retarded but one of the higher ups wanted it and thought it "had pizazz" so it went to print like that.

>>718285491
pauper has been pointless to play since they banned daze and gush

>>718285348
wotc has no plans for long term sustainablity so long as they live under hasbro
>>718285340
sick as fuck dragon

>>718285603
you got high tide back for five seconds and the format is already being fucking ruined again. stay in your lane bluefag

>>718285603
Are you kidding me? The format improved by miles when that happened. Now we just need another ban to keep affinityniggers down (they've been getting cocky with that EoE mycosynth replacemnet) and the metagame will be literally perfect.

>>718285631
digital art is so vile, i wish they went back to the older art styles

>>718285167
its so bad now compared to the past, you can bet your ass if you buy single packs its been 100% searched reputable sellers are so rare these days its actually disgusting how bad its gotten i see the videos constantly on my feeds of scams and weighted packs and how insane the values of certain cards have become, yes its part of the genre but its also the worst part of it because like i said now card games are a yacht club and thats just fucking tragic and is absolutely killing physical card games, its not fucking precious metals its a card game thats supposed to bring people together.

>>718285631
I really like that

>>718276412 (OP)
As soon as meta cards started being sold at insane prices. You could also argue that since it is just gambling as to whether or not you get good cards, it was always shit.

>>718276412 (OP)
Fate Reforged

>>718276412 (OP)
LOTR set.
Actually the real answer is directly after the Urza Trilogy. Since that was peak Magic.

>>718276412 (OP)
I can't say as I'm a very new Commander only player since 2024 (started with Outlaws of Thunder Junction).
The first ever set I bought a pack for was Zendikar Rising (good set).
Since I've been playing the game a year now, visiting /tg/ edh threads and playing, I kind of love the older classic cards better. They had such style and interesting designs.
I just play Commander twice a week with my disability support group and we are mostly casual bracket 1-2 decks. I love it.
I can see why older players say the game is declining from its original fanbase and how it was. Universes Beyond is kind of making them a lot of money but also alienating the old fans and ruining the core system of magic itself.
I think the rest of the year being two UB sets in a row is downright bad.

>>718281885
It's not just that. Oko is a phenomenally broken card, it's actually quite impressive how busted they made him.

Oko is basically a masterclass in overpowered design. All he's missing is drawing cards.

First off he is very aggressively costed, three mono for a planeswalker was very aggressive at that point.

His first ability can gain you life, and create an artifact. It's also a +2 which is a huge contributing factor to why he's so difficult to get rid of. On paper this is his weakest ability, in practice it is one of his most versatile. But still admittedly probably the worst of the three abilities.

His second ability also adds loyalty, for some reason, which is another contributing factor to why he's so difficult to kill. And it functions as: removal, aggro, and blockers! This ability is basically the reason he's so fucking broken because he can, without his ultimate which is its own can of worms:
1. Stabilize you
2. Stabilize the board
3. Create a presence capable of both defending, and pushing damage... Forever.
4. Deal with anything that could threaten him

Then you get the cherry on top.
His last ability trades a food token, which you make off his first ability, for anything that your opponent has. And you can use it typically the turn after you play him, assuming that they can't get a single hit in on him. Which is a much more common scenario than you would expect.

So on top of all that other shit he can do, you also can't easily play threats into him because he'll just trade a fucking food for it.

>>718276412 (OP)
Pick one
>Getting rid of the OG cardframe
>Getting rid of the 3 set rotation
>Planeswalker cards
>Mythic rares
>Adding 3rd party IP slop
>Official commander format
>The garruk incident

>>718282174
Is that a fucking monado bike?

>>718284873
No one card "got me into Magic", because my brother showed me how to play after our cousin taught him. But this is one of the first cards I remember seeing from then, and I dunno for what reason, it just stuck out to me.

>>718286260
I wish I could play a 4/6 for 6 and have it still be impactful on the table.

>>718284873
I started playing because of a friend at school and not because of any particular card, but this was the first one that made me think "wow cool."

I've been playing MTG since Iceage and I hate commander decks. Friends have convinced me to build and play commander a few times and I hate it each and every time.
Does anyone else who has played Magic for a long time also hate Commander decks?

>>718286260
same, i liked looking at the cards
this wasn't the first version of this particular card, but this art is the oldest card i can clearly remember (along with an old ornithopter)

>>718286347
I don't think that was a thing you could do at any point of the game. This card always sucked ass.

>>718286260
>>718286401
For me it was Barl's Cage

>>718286383
Commander is for people who dont actually like or understand mtg

>>718286434
I started playing during guilds, but the context that gotten for older magic is that used to be considered reasonable for a creature. Creatures used to be really really bad.

>>718286383
I haven't played since 2008 so I don't even know what it is. is it just zoomer edh?

>>718286260
These type of cards are still what I weigh everything against.
But anything without ETB or instant value is dead on arrival in modern magic.

>>718286434
Those stats were never great but would still be playable casually just as a dumb creature especially as a kid when you played with what you had instead of building hyper efficient decks.

The first Duels of the Planeswalkers demo got me to learn how to play Magic, Duels 2013 demo finally actually got me into Magic.

>>718286383
>Does anyone else who has played Magic for a long time also hate Commander decks?

I hate commander because I'm autistic and own 4 copies of every card I own some thousands of different cards but to keep things organized to build a deck I have to pull all 4 copies out. Makes the whole thing a mess.

>>718286401
Yeah, cards used to have sick art and were actually fun to look at. So many cards got my imagination going when I was a kid.

>>718276412 (OP)
Collectible Trading Card games were gacha before gacha existed.

>>718287019
whoops, this happened before the tranny

>>718287109
If this was SO VIOLENT AGAINST WOMEN how is she still alive? You'd think he fucking killed her.

>>718286941
If you look at the card art of cards that have been reprinted many times you can see the SOVL getting sucked out of the game in real time.
>starts as based random weird shit the artist thought looked cool
>then increasingly generic fantasy elves
>then gimmicky flavor of the month meme set stuff, which is the current state of Magic

>>718276412 (OP)
planeswalkers

>>718287659
plainswalkers

>>718287319
Bottom right is just a Bushiroad tcg card.

>>718287319
Is that last one from a newer portal set?

Probably started around War of the Spark and the implementation of FIRE design. Power creep I think is probably inevitable in a CCG especially for something that is 30+ years old, but it really exploded after that set. Every new set has to have new powerful busted cards that replace the old ones and we get like 6 sets or something per year. It's insane. It makes everything feel really disposable and not worth investing in. The Walking Dead cards foreshadowed the eventual Universes Beyond slop era we are now heading in. Commander is the most popular and worst format, so cards need to cater to that. Never mind if it ruins other formats.

>>718287758
>>718287762
one of the most soulless things about modern MTG is the constant secret lairs and crossovers shitting out cards that completely break the art style and tone. It's the Fortnite of card games at this point.

>>718287736
>Few can withstand the wrath of the righteous.
I know the Pathfinder rule set can be pretty cumbersome and Seelah is a big annoying but it's not THAT bad!

>>718288214
... is that a real card?

>>718288308
i find the pandering that ALL paladins MUST BE black as a way to make sure things aren't TOO white amusing

>>718288436
have you not seen any of the new cards in the past 5 years?
this is more represenative of MtG today than anything else you're familiar with

At this point I think of MtG as a "platform as a service" kind of deal. Instead of franchises trying to shit out their own sets of cards they go hat in hand to Wizards. Hundreds of thousands of people wouldn't have played Final Fantasy card game but they bothered because MtG provided an existing framework for it.

>>718288436
If only you knew how bad things really are

>>718288913
I don't like it, but Counterspell is on the mark.

>>718288535
>have you not seen any of the new cards in the past 5 years?
No.
The last booster party I did was a Eventide / Morningtide combination. We bought a bunch of boxes for cheap and had a blast.

>>718284873
I got into it from my older brother but this card sticks in my mind the most even if it wasn't what got me in necessarily.

UB is killing the game and cumander obssesion is also not good at all. I mist the easly 2000s so much , mtg was so good back then.

>>718284873
Wasn't a particular card but a particular style of artwork.

>>718276412 (OP)
Planeswalkers being actual cards.

The FF set got me into the game after swearing it off for years
UB is stupid but if it had to exist (marketing) it should be thematic to MTG instead of just adding capeshit or sanic
Berserk would go pretty hard though

>>718290419
>Berserk would go pretty hard though
>in modern pozzed to hell WoTC's mtg
it would not "go pretty hard" at all

>>718284873
This hot bitch from Rakdos Revelry. I still have an urge to use clunky soulful aggro Rakdos cards

>>718276412 (OP)
Mirrodin
Scourge finished the original story by pre hasbro wotc and mirrodin started the new hasbro adventure marked by the new card border

>>718290523
Look I don't like the current WOTC staff as much as anyone else but how would they even fuck up that series beyond turning Guts black or making Griffith look any more like a queer than he already does?

>>718276412 (OP)
lorwyn was the first set to introduce planeswalkers as a card type

>>718276412 (OP)
Post-Invasion. Being generous: post-Kamigawa.

As soon as they added Mythic Rarity and changed Planeswalkers from "(YOU) are a planeswalker" to a card type, it was over for Magic: the Gathering.

It was even more over in the 1990's when Richard Garfield's superior card game: Netrunner, was made. Then the reboot happened (Android: Netrunner) and shit on Magic from a great height so great that Wizards of the Jew panicked and pulled the license from Fantasy Flight, so they couldn't continue A:N.

Anyway, play Android: Netrunner, the superior card game.

>>718276808
Square 'tard wrangled them. Essentially. Hasbro couldn't fuck it up because Square was a bigger company.

>>718281267
>unboxing threads.jpg

>>718280503
This, Planeswalker and then adding the YGO shit rarity of Mythics next block killed the game.

>>718282708
EDH has been a disaster for Magic (beyond Wizards fucking it up themselves, of course). As soon as Hasbro saw dollar signs on a COMMUNITY MADE FORMAT, it was over for the game.

>>718284873
cant really think of any one singular card but i remember this was the first rare i pulled from a pack when i was like 8 or 9 and i thought it was cool as hell

>>718282578
Jokes on you, I actually did quit because of Jacetice league and the game's general enshittification, I just keep tabs on things from time to time to see how much worse its gotten and how much more unhinged the remnant of red-faced pepe s0ys who still play have become.

>>718282159
It's free card draw on 1/1 creatures, anon. The -1 comes into effect immediately on equip. So the creature dies (2/0) and then you gain +2 draw.

Since it's an equipment/artifact, it doesn't go into the graveyard with the creature it was equipped to.

There was a reason it and Stoneforge Mystic were banned in 2012.

>>718282578
i quit around the first zendikar and didnt play again until amonkhet when i got back into draft
games still mostly fun if you dont really engage with most of the constructed formats or commander

>>718291848
skullclamp was banned from what would be standard and legacy in 2004 a few months after it was printed in darksteel
it was pre-banned in modern

>>718286434
As an artifact it might have had some niche applications in a theoretical competitive format from very early Magic. A 4/6 cannot be bolted or killed with terror and it is unlikely your opponent would be running CoP:Artifacts. You can power it out turn 2 if you get very lucky with Mishra's Workshop or I guess Dark Ritual.
There was a time when being colorless actually was a significant advantage.

>>718284873
Onslaught Krosan cards made lil me happy.

>>718284873
For me it's probably this one. I had the "Sidestep" theme deck from Eventide, and my tiny kid brain kept trying to understand what the effect could be used for. Over time it opened me to the idea of combos.

>>718284873
The art really spoke to young me.

How did we go from this >>718293485 to this?

>>718276412 (OP)
why is every card game some gambling thing
cant they just sell a full set of every card in a single box like solitaire so people can actually play the game

>>718276412 (OP)
Mirrrodin to Return to Ravnica was the decline of the game. Everything after that has just been rapid decline to the point of total destruction.

>>718294960
Magic tries to serve three masters; a drafting card game that wants staple tools at common rarity and more esoteric tools at rare with balance between colors, a constructed card game that doesn't really care about what cards are printed or where so long as they're available, and collectors who all else being equal would love if there was one copy of a card that they owned and everyone else could piss rocks.

You can't make all three groups happy. You can't even make two groups happy most of the time. You can guess which one group they've been gunning for.

>>718295182
I agree with this. Mostly because I quit during the mirrodin block. When in my scene out of 27 entrants 21 were running affinity ravager.

>>718276412 (OP)
Weatherlight was when they switched to the Joss Whedon style of story telling instead of just letting the cards and art speak for themselves while drip feeding relevant lore.

>>718290137
>NOOOOOO I NEVER SHOULD HAVE PLAYED WITH PROXIES AIIIIIEEEEEE

Apologize

>>718276412 (OP)
throne of eldraine era. It's a good sign post of when they started pushing the power of standard hard, forgoing playtesting, releasing sets faster and faster, and catering hard towards commander

>>718296326
I always thought this guy was just a boomer unc until Hasbro pulls this shit. I kneel, Demo

>>718280604
They fucked up a lot of frames in the last decade. First and foremost the UB frame. But I fucking love the Ixalan flip land frame, it almost makes me wish it was standard frame for all lands.

>>718296796
god ixalan was so fucking kino

take me back

>>718276412 (OP)
Introduction of Planeswalkers started the fall. Going woke was the next mistake. Turning it into Fortnite with non-magic sets is what put the nail in the coffin. RIP

>>718282121
It's inexcusable, even a casual Magic player can look at the card and tell you exactly what is going to happen.

>>718284873
Got it in my first pack

>>718284873
I started playing when 4th Edition just came out and this was my favorite card art at the time. Also very fond of Dragon Whelp since it featured heavily in the instruction booklet and my first starter deck happened to have one.

>>718293964
They're both cool

>>718297431
Oh my fauci, is that a heccin Angel Engine?

>>718284873
Liked this nigga before they Mary Sue'd him into the plot

>>718297620
you have to be fucking kidding

>>718294960
They did that with Netrunner, Warhammer Conquest and other living card games.
I believe in conspiracy that that's why they were all destroyed and cancelled - because they were going against the late capitalism greed.

Why didn't they make Cloud black?

the best set/block was Time Spiral, so there began the steady decline into what we have today

Dont know shit about art but I always stop and take a look at this for a moment when I scroll past it.

>>718284873
Someone brought a couple of cards from his brother collection at school and they looked cool, so a bunch of us went to buy a base set and a couple expansion packs after school some days later. The interest for most of us lasted for like a year and it was just a bunch of kids fucking around, but it was fun. For some reason I really loved this card when I got it. This was back when mana burn was still a thing, so tapping your lands just to float mana didn't work

>>718298941
for me, it's this trolling wench

>>718282578
MTG is being held up by investortrannies. If it was being held up by players you wouldn't have the issue Pokemon faces where boxes become stupid expensive cause someone wants a massive payout.

>>718276412 (OP)
>When did the decline of Magic begin?
Oldfag here. I started playing Magic before Pokemon came to American.

>Planeswalkers
The introduction of the Planeswalker card type is what killed Magic. It didn't die immediately, but that's what killed it. Later, they introduced "Sagas", and Sagas are what Planeswalkers should have been. Planeswalkers should never have existed.

You can argue that it died earlier than that. Like, you can argue that it died as soon as the Urza arc ended, but imo what killed the GAME (not storyline) is Planeswalkers. Sad to see that a game I spent my entire childhood playing, either with a friend or two I got into the game or with my dad at the kitchen table or with randos at FNM as a literal child, has now been reduced to nothing but the cardboard equivalent of Funko Pops.

>>718286061
Man, thanks for that. After all these years I finally see why he’s considered such a broken card. It never occurred to me how difficult it would be to get rid of him since he has 4 loyalty and the food token makes him have 6 loyalty on the 4th turn.

>>718288913
any mtg format that excludes the latest sets+secret lair?
10 years ago we had more than enough cards to play forever.

>>718287319
I think it's a shame the anime elves didn't have the roughness llanowar elves can have but I still shelled out for them anyway

>>718288445
I'll grant them that Paladins having a heavy negro association in the setting was at least already a thing back when it was aiming to be more the slightly more edgy D&D setting

>>718289883
That seems another good candidate for calling it the begining of the end, when they brought slivers back but then made them only affect your own slivers

>>718292805
>there are people who consider this the weakest segment of season 2

>>718278156
>Art looks pretty
ehhhhhhhhh. there's still a lot of the really ugly nu-magic artstyle present.

>>718280663
removal does literally nothing proactive, if removal is more expensive than threats then you will continually be on the backfoot and there's no point in not just playing a creature of your own. imagine if a bullet cost more than a soldier and a RPG cost more than a tank, that would be fucking stupid.

>>718295323
>You can guess which one group they've been gunning for.
I see no reason the state can't step in and say if they are going to act like they're selling an investment product they should expect to be regulated like one

>>718282691
I do recall the specifics, because I'm a slut for Mirrodin. It was 3, equip 2, with only the card draw effect. They punched it up because they weren't happy that equipment wasn't panning out as the focal point of the block they wanted, and the changes weren't sufficiently tested because it had already been tacitly disregarded as an 'inevitable' piece of draft chaff by that point.

Seeing Magic and Pokemon scenes being fucking butchered because of card stock market troons makes me happy Yu-Gi-Oh is very much a player centric market game.

>>718282439
The tech in Kaladesh was totally different than Neon Kamigawa, Aetherdrift and the new Mass effect shit.
Kaladesh was all magically powered by the aether that flowed through everything on the plane. The nature, sky, world, buildings, clothes. Everything had this magical flow entwined throughout.
That's how pretty much all of the "higher tech" planes have been before too.
There's a massive difference between a magically enchanted metal golem and a star destroyer. It should be painfully obvious to see.

>>718301834
Average meta ygo decks cost 400-500 $ don't delude yourself

>>718285013
get off 4chan and go back to the porn mines

>>718282540
They're meant to represent OTHER planeswalkers. The real issue is that the traditional planeswalker design is an infinite value engine with wide utility and a ultimate ability that's the equivalent of a 12 mana sorcery, which is just insane.

>>718301834
Maybe if you're talking about Japan where the OCG price to buy a deck is alright

>>718276412 (OP)
When they added Planeswalker cards.

>>718296497
I guarantee they're just going to try and make ""girly fantasy"" stuff rather than acknowledging the actual appeal of romantasy novels to the female demographic (that the genre's a spectrum from "sexually charged" to "just straight up fucking rape porn")

>>718297620
>DUDE IT'S A GREEN CARD SO IT HAS TO BE GREEN ALSO IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE A SHITTY F2P MOBILE GAME

>>718301956
Still cheaper than a shit load of MTG meta decks. And even then all that shit gets shot down because the game isn't afraid of reprints. Player dictated markets > investor trannies.
>>718302114
>price to buy a deck is alright
Refer to above.

>>718284873
Draco and Tek along with Phyrexian cards are what got me into the game. I used to stare at this card in WotC shops in malls when I bought pokeman cards. Me and my brother both loved The Brother's War.

>>718303832
Forgot pic.

>>718277607
Lorewise planeswalkers have existed since day 1. And the mythos behind characters like Urza being so fucking busted that it would be impossible to depict their full potential in a card is the kind of idea that sparks the imagination. AND it was cool to have some young planeswalkers as cards as one offs back then. But yes, the whole era of magic where they kept shilling planeswalkers was awful.

My first magic hiatus was around original the innistrad block (innistrad/dark ascension/avacyn restored) and that was absolutely fucking awesome mtg we were getting back then. Zendikar block followed by phyrexian mirrodin block followed by innistrad were some of the best years I spent playing mtg.
I then returned for the battle for zendikar block which was absolutely fucking dogshit. Then there was kaladesh and amonkhet and all that shit? I feel like around that time the card design from standard had shifted from prioritizing 1v1 to start milking the commander playerbase with cards that were abhorrently unplayable in 1v1 formats and started wording "all opponents". As far as I'm conerned that was the beginning of the end. Especially because I heard that constructed format during the tarkir block was great (and that's what was immediately before the god awful battle for zendikar block). That's when the retarded gatewatch came to be too. So... 2015?
I still point to picrel as my "jumped the shark" moment and I dropped the game right then and there.

>>718297683
That reminds me, is he worse than Nicol Bolas? I loved and hated his shenanigans in the books. Him messing with Kamigawa and Ugin was a weird one for me though.

So... is there any good videogame of mtg?

>>718276808
FF has very good compability with Magic due the magic-related fantasy settings.

Other franchises like Dr Who or Marvel slop just doesn't translate well into MtG. I'm not exactly a fan of Edge of Eternity, either, for this very reason, despite being an in-universe set. Spaceships don't belong in fucking Magic.

As or LotR, it should have had a high compability as well, but they had to go there and make several versions of Nigger Aragorn for the hell of it.

>>718284873
My first card. Which is funny because I never actually played it since I bought a precon and started from there. But I got this on a booster pack they gifted in a magazine and thought it looked cool as fuck.

>>718303485
Staples like mulcharmy ash or pot of whatever costs 70$ shut the fuck up nigger you don't pkay paper

>>718301956
That's most games. Are you retarded? YGO has its issues but generally speaking it doesn't suffer the scalping issue nor does it suffer an outsider issue like MTG and Pokemon have. They're definitely better off in the long run barring personal preferences for the style of game and/or it's rules.

>>718305151
>Ash
>$70
In what world? Ass Blassum has been reprinted to high hell and you can buy a playset for $3.
>mulcharmy
The most uaed one is Fuwalos and you can get a playset for $45 since it also got reprinted very fucking early into it's meta lifespan.
>pot of w/e
You could have said Dominus Impulse and had a point but then you'd have to state how that really fucks over your deck if it plays into its restrictions meaning its. It a generic staple.

Needless to say you don't play this game physically nor do you actually understand the prices of cards.

>>718305151
>70$

>>718305151
>>718305391
I was going to say $70 per card is pretty harsh but are we talking $70 for all your staples or for a singular copy? If you're paying $70 or less for just the staples alone then you're making off pretty cheap compared to a lot of things in Commander.

>>718297683
My current grasp on the lore is extremely tenuous but as I understand it he theoretically could have taken part in the races in that racing set right, like there are ways besides planeswalking to get around now? seems like a massive missed opportunity to not having the cool dragon dude make his own car

>>718305151
Bro if that's expensive for you then you shouldn't be playing Magic

>>718276412 (OP)
Ask Hasbro

>>718284873
I started at innistrad remastered. Former Yugioh player, but that game got ruined by hand traps.

>>718304448
Wtf is the plot of edge of eternities anyway?

Do MtG players enjoy their crossovers?
As they keep pumpinh those out I assume they sell well.

>>718306069
>As they keep pumpinh those out I assume they sell well.
They're selling to people who are treating it like the stock market.

WotC keeps making cards for older formats and it fucks Standard up real bad
Hard to play anything interesting in the past few years because of how oppressive the cards have been

>>718306069
I think the FF was popular wasnt it?

>>718306130
Yeah for those serialized Chocobos

>>718304103
Nicol bolas is a boomer evil overlord dragon planeswalker perma mad about the states of the multiverse. Nivvy is a 5000 IQ genocidal ebin troll that enjoys fucking around. I think he's the guildpact now? Who cares about that shit when they're letting fucking Rakdos just larp as a cowboy outside of ravnica when half of that fucking guildpact was about Truman show'ins the demon to prevent catastrophe, yet he's fucking frollicking around the planes.

>>718276412 (OP)
Around 4th edition

>>718306069
>Do MtG players enjoy their crossovers?
Everyone fucking hates it and even Youtube shills are saying Magic isn't really Magic, when over half of the releas shedule is other IPs

>>718306069
mtg cattle are addicts who don't know about the game they're playing other than its made up mini market value.

>>718276412 (OP)
Secret Lair, easily. The moment the entire franchise became reddit as fuck