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Thread 718735725

276 posts 68 images /v/
Anonymous No.718735725 >>718736081 >>718738283 >>718738484 >>718738686 >>718740023 >>718740723 >>718741020 >>718741353 >>718743276 >>718744784 >>718748890 >>718749087 >>718750385 >>718750712 >>718750849 >>718752127 >>718752167 >>718753701 >>718753979 >>718754334 >>718754349 >>718754417 >>718754732 >>718754960 >>718754969 >>718755118 >>718755395 >>718755523 >>718755583 >>718755695 >>718756459 >>718756547 >>718757036 >>718758167 >>718758405 >>718758449 >>718759106 >>718759503 >>718764532 >>718764975 >>718766338
You hate raytracing because you are poor. And it's okay.
Anonymous No.718735780 >>718737726 >>718738593 >>718749070 >>718749485 >>718756439 >>718756532
top looks better
Anonymous No.718736081 >>718738593 >>718749070 >>718749485 >>718756439
>>718735725 (OP)
Top looks better
Anonymous No.718736086
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/image/eA1FNQW_xm6j2iy1Cg-qFQ/
aside from your brown seething, gta v ray tracing is still fairly optimized but thats really only because its a 12 year old game
>suddenly
Anonymous No.718736162 >>718738593
top looks better
Anonymous No.718736780 >>718740985 >>718759665
I hate it because it kills performance for very little gain.
Anonymous No.718737726 >>718741091 >>718765861
>>718735780
top looks incorrect. Weird darkness with zero color bleeding from the tile colors and "cold" sun. The back of the character's shirt is unnaturally bright with the sun in front of him. Every edge is extra dark.

Bottom looks much closer to reality.
Anonymous No.718738283 >>718738507 >>718740234 >>718740535 >>718763189
>>718735725 (OP)
imo they should just capture all raytracing lighting when they make the level and then reuse it instead of recalculating it every frame. then you'd get a big performance bump
Anonymous No.718738338 >>718738593
top looks better
Anonymous No.718738484 >>718749115 >>718749341
>>718735725 (OP)
>costs half of your frame rate
>doesn't render anywhere near fast enough causing ghosting and other lighting glitches
Anonymous No.718738507 >>718740354 >>718740535
>>718738283

I was thinking this. How would that work? It shouldn't need to be realtime. But I don't think you should have individual textures baked for each possible minute/hour of the day, as you'd greatly increase the game size. But couldn't it still be incremental? All lighting pre-calculated, and updated only periodically?
Anonymous No.718738593 >>718752284
>>718735780
>>718736081
>>718736162
>>718738338
Anonymous No.718738686
>>718735725 (OP)
I don't hate raytracing itself. I hate DLSS and frame generation more.
Anonymous No.718740023 >>718740748 >>718740940 >>718743276
>>718735725 (OP)
Raytracing was introduced into video games with a single purpose - to give hardware manufacturers something they could flex for the foreseeable future. Everything else has been achieved, there's nothing to impress the audience with. Meanwhile, for raytracing to work even on powerful hardware, it requires shitty hacks like DLSS and framegen, and that's three generations since its introduction. So Nvidia and AMD finally have something to "work on" for many years (other than AI, but that came later). They just needed a reason to nickel and dime you.
In reality, lighting requires as much artistry as any other part of the image, so simply enabling "realistic" lighting is not an approach that good games would be comfortable with, which becomes obvious when someone forces raytracing into games not designed for it.
Anonymous No.718740234
>>718738283
That wouldn't work in games with dynamic times of day. Sounds like a neat idea though
Anonymous No.718740354
>>718738507
Horizon Zero Dawn does this, depending on where you're standing you can see the time of day updating in big chunks instead of procedurally. It's a bit distracting but worth it.
Anonymous No.718740452 >>718740592 >>718741029
I hate it because, outside of simulators, photorealism is cancer
Anonymous No.718740535 >>718742569
>>718738283
>>718738507
That's something games have been doing since the PS1 era, it's called baked lighting. It works great of course, but it's not compatible with dynamic lighting (something pretty much all games use these days).
Anonymous No.718740575
Raytracing was never worth it. Path tracing is but it's completely reliant on ray reconstruction and still performs like shit even on a 5090. We're still a whole 2 generations out from path tracing being commonplace
Anonymous No.718740592 >>718741393
>>718740452
looks good in kojimas last few games
Anonymous No.718740606
I'm a bottom
Anonymous No.718740687
I don't care about graphics in video games though
Anonymous No.718740723 >>718741695
>>718735725 (OP)
You can just reproduce this with better lighting which will use less resources than Ray tracing. Its fucking pathetic that even Nintendo does raytracing style color reflections without Ray tracing on fucking switch.
Anonymous No.718740748 >>718748354 >>718756804
>>718740023
>3D graphics was introduced into video games with a single purpose - to give hardware manufacturers something they could flex for the foreseeable future.
Anonymous No.718740940 >>718741092 >>718761054
>>718740023
Ray tracing was introduced because developers are at the end of their bag of tricks to try to get photo-realism out of rasterized lighting solutions.

It WAS, however, introduced two hardware generations too early for it to be a useful feature because Nvidia wanted a flashy feature to sell cards. It wasn't worth using before the 4000 series, and should have never been pushed that early. Make no mistake though, it's not a gimmick, it's the only realistic path forward, and anyone with any real knowledge of rendering will tell you the same thing.
Anonymous No.718740985 >>718745131
>>718736780
note how the RTX retards never reply to you
Anonymous No.718741020
>>718735725 (OP)
I hate raytracing because it makes games look worse
Anonymous No.718741029
>>718740452
top is more realistic
Anonymous No.718741035 >>718741109 >>718741123 >>718762390 >>718764104 >>718766053
isn’t raytracing supposed to make it so dev team can just turn the sun on, slap some lightbulbs down, and call it a day? i did some Hammer mapping in the day, i remember most lights requiring at least like 2 entities and transparent brush to look like anything other than a spotlight.

i bring it up because, with all the asset shopping studios do these days; the prefabricated nature of game genres, networking stacks, and game engines; and the availability of superior project management and outsourcing capabilities - why don’t they have the time to fine tune custom lifting any more?

i also get that raytracing is supposed to improve reflections, as well as make complex 3d surfaces like a characters face respond more realistically to changing light. but like idk. maybe we should go back to the FMV era lol.
Anonymous No.718741091 >>718750676
>>718737726
reality != better. Movies use unrealistic lighting all the time
Anonymous No.718741092
>>718740940
kys
Anonymous No.718741109 >>718741216 >>718741242 >>718759667
>>718741035
>isn’t raytracing supposed to make it so dev team can just turn the sun on, slap some lightbulbs down, and call it a day
no, raytracing is supposed to make it so that lighting can interact with surfaces the way light actually interacts with surfaces
Anonymous No.718741115 >>718741258
>ghosting
no thanks
Anonymous No.718741123
>>718741035
custom lighting* hehe phone poster exposΓ©
Anonymous No.718741216 >>718741315
>>718741109
right but so as a result you just need to point lights around the map, you don’t need to create volumetric effects by hand. you just sound like a shill, would appreciate if anyone actually knows about the subject to reply
Anonymous No.718741242 >>718742696
>>718741109
You're thinking PBR. Gay tracing calculates light bounces so you don't need to bake as much
Anonymous No.718741258 >>718741331 >>718751454
>>718741115
raytracing != multi frame convergence algorithms
Anonymous No.718741315 >>718741376
>>718741216
>right but so as a result you just need to point lights around the map, you don’t need to create volumetric effects by hand
You still need to do that because people turn ray tracing off. I do this professionally, if you don't want to listen to facts, I honestly don't give a fuck.
Anonymous No.718741331
>>718741258
>multiframe convergence
ahh fuck light is quantum indeterminate, an accurate simulation is impossible, ahhh help me shadman
Anonymous No.718741353
>>718735725 (OP)
The difference ray tracing makes when you completely turn off shadows with it off*
Anonymous No.718741376
>>718741315
okay ty for better contextualized answer
Anonymous No.718741393 >>718741603
>>718740592
No it doesn't, kojima's shit looks hideous
Anonymous No.718741603
>>718741393
mgs5 and death stranding 1 and 2 use the 'photorealistic' style well imo
Anonymous No.718741695 >>718741754
>>718740723
Gay tracing is useful when you can't place lights manually but in that tiny hallway you can just bake the lightmaps and use dynamix lighting. The character's model can be darkened using a variety of methods. One creative method I've seen was using the same kind of maps used to render character outlines tk manually adjust the alpha valuds indepedent of the illumination system.
Anonymous No.718741754
>>718741695
alpha values*
Anonymous No.718741782 >>718742102
it's great for games that are dependent on lighting more than others like horror games; every other game using it is harder to justify the performance cost, even if money isn't an issue
Anonymous No.718742102 >>718742259
>>718741782
Hi 2018 person, welcome to 2025 where you are retarded.
Anonymous No.718742259
>>718742102
be nice to time travelers anon
Anonymous No.718742291
They both look like fuckin shit. Pre rendered lighting rules supreme over your little nigger faggot simulator. Spend five grand on a machine to goon on, IM NOT INTERESTED
Anonymous No.718742569
>>718740535
It's compatible and shadows are still baked into environments and models, especially things seen up close like clothes. Baked lightmaps are still used with dynamic lighting and global illumination
Anonymous No.718742696 >>718743268
>>718741242
No I'm not, retard. PBR is a surface shading model, not a lighting model.
Anonymous No.718743268 >>718744296
>>718742696
Yes and it also includes realstic light reflections from the surface. Ray tracing calculates light bounces
Anonymous No.718743276
>>718735725 (OP)
On looks better
>>718740023
Off looks better
The only thing that matters is art - technology only matters in so far as it can properly convey the artistic vision
Anonymous No.718744296 >>718744697
>>718743268
Yes, it calculates light bounces. And part of that calculation is what it needs to do when it hits surfaces with different properties. To what degree it relfects or refracts, what color surfaces it reflects or refracts off of. Then it uses all that data to light the scene. PBR doesn't "include realistic light reflections" unless used in conjunction with ray tracing to figure out what it need to reflect. Stop being a Dunning-Kruger poster child.
Anonymous No.718744697 >>718744979
>>718744296
PBR can include ray tracing in its pipeline but it doesnt need to for realstic light reflections.
Anonymous No.718744784 >>718744875
>>718735725 (OP)
It is impressive, but if I want reality I can go outside or just look around.
Anonymous No.718744875
>>718744784
You get 10 fps and unless the ray tracing is turned off or used minimally.
Anonymous No.718744979 >>718746589
>>718744697
99% of non-RT PBR reflections are cubemaps. Nobody is going to use planar reflections. So maybe you should redefine what you mean by "realistic."
Anonymous No.718745131
>>718740985
Why reply to something OP already explained?
Anonymous No.718746589
>>718744979
Every object you see is a reflection of light. PBR calculates the surface interactions with light while following conservation of energy and accurately simulating the object's surface using different types of textures to characterize them. If you're talking about reflection like on water then yeah you're going to use cubmaps, low quality planar reflections or ssr. You use them even when you can use ray tracing because they're a lot cheaper.
Anonymous No.718748354 >>718756316
>>718740748
>equating the jump in 2d to 3d to gay tracing
Anonymous No.718748647
Bottom looks like the remaster they made of the earlier GTAs.
Anonymous No.718748801
so is raytracing just making shit bright as fuck
Anonymous No.718748890
>>718735725 (OP)
Haven't played GTAV with RT but every other game I try to run with it enabled can't reach 100 fps at 4K consistently on my RTX 4090.
Anonymous No.718748935
Why does Ray trace so much?
Anonymous No.718749030
>real time raytracing allows for games with destructable environments to not look off
>only game that properly uses it is The Finals
Anonymous No.718749070
>>718735780
>>718736081
Anonymous No.718749087
>>718735725 (OP)
i would not notice this difference while playing
i would notice a worse performance though
Anonymous No.718749115
>>718738484
>I'm fussy about my image quality
>which is why I run 1080p monitor and a RTX 2060ti
Anonymous No.718749341 >>718749737
>>718738484
Ghosting is caused by bad TAA
Anonymous No.718749485 >>718749712 >>718750508 >>718750773 >>718758278
>>718735780
>>718736081
It's not even that it looks better, is that it looks like the devs intended. Ray tracing is lazy one size fits all solution that doesn't take in consideration art direction, making it intrinsically inferior, not even mentioning how demanding it is.
Anonymous No.718749712 >>718750272
>>718749485
You think Rockstar handplaced all the lights through the map and didn't just use some algorithm?
Anonymous No.718749737
>>718749341
>good taa
Anonymous No.718750272 >>718750416
>>718749712
Nta but they did a lot of baking and optimization and didn't pass on the cost of their laziness to their customers
Anonymous No.718750385
>>718735725 (OP)
It's not about being poor. It's because most gamers today grew up on 2000-2015 3D graphics, and the lighting solutions of that time have become the correct default for us.

Raster lighting creates separation, is inexpensive, it's used by developers to visually point things out in the environment.

It's hard to explain but think of Skyrim dungeons. You can stumble into a cave that should by all accounts be dark and gloomy, but it's weirdly bright and lit up because there's inscriptions on the walls you're supposed to notice and there are points of interests to interact with, and there's a super shiny beam of light coming from a hole in the ceiling to point out an artifact even though the beam should realistically be 95% weaker. This isn't "realistic" lighting at all but it works and makes the scene look good.

A lot of mods try to "fix" Skyrim's lighting by making the lighting more realistic and all it would do in this cave is make it all fucking dark and you're barely able to see anything, because that'd be realism. You wouldn't see the inscriptions in the wall, nor the artifact. Which DOES make more sense but it doesn't work for the game's presentation. RT lighting behaves like this so the light simulation creates realism which isn't always accounted for by the lighting artists, so it can downgrade a game's visuals if the devs didn't provide more natural sources of light.

A person like me who grew up on raster lighting will look at something awfully ugly like primitive AO or screen-space reflections and say "looks fine to me" because I grew up on games that do it.
Anonymous No.718750416 >>718750648
>>718750272
I still highly doubt that there is any artistic vision in the top pic from op
Anonymous No.718750508
>>718749485
>Ray tracing is lazy one size fits all solution that doesn't take in consideration art direction
This is complete nonsense. Lighting artists vastly prefer working with raytraced games.
Anonymous No.718750536
https://youtu.be/OIQpH3asrMk
Anonymous No.718750597
https://youtu.be/XnxqBqXD8gg
Anonymous No.718750648 >>718755623
>>718750416
The artistic vision is expressed through rockstars very game engine they have full control over for their game. There's also the assets and the proprietary animation systems, the sounds and the intentional lighting used to bring them to life.
Anonymous No.718750676 >>718751516 >>718751636 >>718754427 >>718755359 >>718757414
>>718741091
>Movies use unrealistic lighting all the time
no they don't. If movies used unrealistic lighting they would look worse than they do now
Anonymous No.718750712
>>718735725 (OP)
which one of these uses rt?
Anonymous No.718750753
Majority of gamers approve of ray tracing. You're fighting imaginary people in your head.
Anonymous No.718750760
https://youtu.be/qxyb-vUApII
Anonymous No.718750773
>>718749485
Lighting itself is not the art direction in an open world game with day/night cycles. The art direction in that situation becomes the landscape and buildings and how the lighting makes them look. It's not art to make incorrect lighting in an open world game. Maybe you can get away with it in a linear and especially cartoonish game.
Anonymous No.718750815 >>718750928 >>718750975
this is all a pointless argument. You're basically arguing that people with no money should just have more money to afford ray tracing.
Anonymous No.718750849 >>718751925
>>718735725 (OP)
>You hate raytracing because you are poor.
This is true btw. The reception of every new software gimmick is wholly dependent on how widely accessible it is. It's why DLSS frame generation was considered a fucking shit scam when it came out just on the 4090, but when AMD came up with their own bargain bin edition it became "oh wow free performance for everyone!!!1" and now that Lossless Scaling has its own FG and people have upgraded GPUs, now it's no longer such a boogeyman.

Same with RT. In 10 years when even the entry level card of a gen is good at raytracing, we'll look back at the whiners today and make fun of them.
Anonymous No.718750928 >>718751046
>>718750815
Even when I had no money and couldn't afford ray tracing I still thought ray tracing is better. You don't have to be wrong regardless.
Anonymous No.718750975
>>718750815
You don't need to get more money or buy new cards, new games are shit. But pretending that traditional lighting is just innately better is absolute sour grapes delusion.
Anonymous No.718751046 >>718751086 >>718751151
>>718750928
I have money and I prefer frames.
Anonymous No.718751086 >>718751195
>>718751046
If you have money but have a GTX 1080 Ti you are a loser.
Anonymous No.718751151
>>718751046
I have never disabled ray tracing on a game which has it
Anonymous No.718751195 >>718751256 >>718751291 >>718751403 >>718755585
>>718751086
cool, but current gen flagships still choke to death with rt
Anonymous No.718751256 >>718758556
>>718751195
>we ignore DLSS which was invented purely to run RT
Anonymous No.718751291 >>718751426
>>718751195
That's native 4k and path tracing. Nobody plays like this.
Anonymous No.718751403
>>718751195
10 years ago it took a GPU half an hour just to compute the lighting of a single frame of a 4k PT scene and render it. I think 20fps is pretty good.
Anonymous No.718751426
>>718751291
Yeah, that's the point.
Anonymous No.718751454 >>718751493
>>718741258
>akchshually
GTAV forces TAA with RT on. As well as most other games
Anonymous No.718751493 >>718751632
>>718751454
GTAV does not force TAA on. Not in the original edition, and not in the remaster either. What the remaster did is just remove MSAA but that makes sense considering MSAA was never that good in GTAV to begin with and going SSAA is better.
Anonymous No.718751516
>>718750676
You are actually retarded, congratulations.
Anonymous No.718751632
>>718751493
Which part of
>with RT on
did you not understand?
Anonymous No.718751636 >>718755359
>>718750676
movies constantly use unrealistic lighting, you just don't notice they do

rim lighting characters in a muddy scene is like a gold standard practice
Anonymous No.718751782 >>718751845 >>718751989 >>718752081 >>718753083 >>718753730
I've been playing Cyberpunk recently and every now and then I'll turn raytracing on and 90% of the time there's literally no fucking difference
I genuinely don't know which one of these two pictures is the raytracing one
Anonymous No.718751845
>>718751782
have you tried getting close to things and looking?
Anonymous No.718751925 >>718751971 >>718753083
>>718750849
Upscaling is loathsome no matter what.
Anonymous No.718751971 >>718752112
>>718751925
it always will be if you can't run it
Anonymous No.718751989 >>718752289
>>718751782
Game itself is garbage but it's nice benchmark.
RT even on ultra doesn't make much difference you need to enable Overdrive AKA PT.
Anonymous No.718752081
>>718751782
the bottom one is 'raytraced' and imo it's actually screenspace reflections with some raytracing
Anonymous No.718752112 >>718752136
>>718751971
I'd rather run native 4K with max settings.
Anonymous No.718752127
>>718735725 (OP)
Light doesn't fucking work like this. Doesn't matter if it looks better, it doesn't look natural.
Anonymous No.718752136 >>718752241
>>718752112
>I have AMD
Anonymous No.718752167 >>718752247
>>718735725 (OP)
Now post it in motion
Anonymous No.718752241
>>718752136
I'm sorry to hear that.
Anonymous No.718752247
>>718752167
now post it with sound
Anonymous No.718752284
>>718738593
t. bottom
Anonymous No.718752289
>>718751989
my screenshots were with every raytracing related setting maxed out including path tracing
tanks my fps to the 20s so I only use it for screenshots
I did find one where there was at least a little difference though
Anonymous No.718752378
gaytracing retards don't notice that they can't enjoy raytracing because if they die in-game they can't see gaytracing tech happening before their eyes
in order to enjoy their gaytracing purchase they have to stay alive and not die but at the same time they are too busy to look at gaytracing
so now they have to cope about paying for worse performance
gaytracing is best used on walking simulators, really. you can enjoy lights bouncing around walls at 42fps and you can't die.
it's perfect for the retards that like this shit tech
Anonymous No.718752467 >>718753168 >>718756313
I can easily ray-trace games. I dont. No games really need it, nothing is trying to be that realistic. Realism isn't fun, it's boring. Wanna know how its boring? You live your life in a realistic setting and you play games to have fun.

Stop being a cunt.
Anonymous No.718753083 >>718753163
>>718751782
I've been playing Cyberpunk too and the difference depends heavily on the scene. Usually it's in exterior areas that the impact of raytracing is minor especially if everything is still. But when there's things moving or many screen effects or when you're in interiors, the difference is big.
https://imgsli.com/MTY5NjAy/0/2
>>718751925
>Upscaling is loathsome no matter what.
I get better image quality AND performance by upscaling to 4k than you do with your native 1080p or 1440p.
Anonymous No.718753163
>>718753083
oh, that's a convenient site
https://imgsli.com/NDA4Nzk5
I took this one too and I again can't remember which one was the maxed out raytracing one
Anonymous No.718753168 >>718753656
>>718752467
>I can easily ray-trace games.
post pc
Anonymous No.718753317 >>718753404
raytracing is a meme
Anonymous No.718753404 >>718754045
>>718753317
>1920x1080
lol
Anonymous No.718753656 >>718753748
>>718753168
9070xt 9800x3d
Anonymous No.718753701
>>718735725 (OP)
>How light works in reality
>Somewhat light expands but still keeps a shadow range
You are a buffoon.
Anonymous No.718753730
>>718751782
ray traced global illumination is not gonna play a lot if the scene is dark and without enough light sources (direct or indirect) to illuminate the area
Anonymous No.718753748 >>718753806 >>718754009
>>718753656
lol you can't run ray tracing
Anonymous No.718753806 >>718753828
>>718753748
if you say so buddy
Anonymous No.718753828 >>718754059
>>718753806
show your CP2077 benchmark result page
Anonymous No.718753979 >>718754165
>>718735725 (OP)
I can run RT, but higher frames are always better.
fuck RT, fuck upscalers, fuck TAA
Anonymous No.718754009
>>718753748
he can though
Anonymous No.718754045
>>718753404
Anything above 480p is superfluous.
Anonymous No.718754047 >>718754186
Don't care. Always turn it off.
I have a 4090 for rendering work. Video games are better without RT.
Anonymous No.718754059 >>718754151
>>718753828
I dont own it, not my game. I dont like any CDPR games, just like i dont like any rockstar games.
Anonymous No.718754151
>>718754059
>I can run ray tracing easily
>but I don't own the game with ray tracing to show you
ha ha lol
Anonymous No.718754165 >>718755670 >>718755712
>>718753979
Why go for frames on a solo game instead of graphics fidelity except if you can't actually run RT and you go from 60 to 30 fps
Anonymous No.718754186 >>718754330
>>718754047
Yes it's convenient how people who always don't care for RT always have RTX4090s, never GTX1660Ti.
Anonymous No.718754330 >>718754418 >>718754547
>>718754186
Anonymous No.718754334
>>718735725 (OP)
Raytracing is the same exact problem as getting better headphones. You don't really notice the improvement, but you do notice the downgrade when you go back to what you used before.

When you get better headphones, after 5 minutes you stop noticing that they're good. But what you do notice is how SHIT your old cheap headphones now sound.
Same with this. RT now looks normal to me and whenever I go back to a 2010 game with screenspace artifacts and flat overly bright interior lighting, it looks turbo-ugly even though it looked fine to me before.
Anonymous No.718754349
>>718735725 (OP)
I don't hate it, I don't love it. I'm fully done with obsession over graphical fedility and technology when most new games are shit or the gameplay is incredibly hollow, wonder over graphics has faded, I don't care if either looks better. For me it doesn't imrpove the game all that much.
Anonymous No.718754417
>>718735725 (OP)
both looks like shit
Anonymous No.718754418 >>718754446 >>718754985
>>718754330
lol 1080p and AMD
>I can runs ray tracing
lol no
Anonymous No.718754427
>>718750676
lmao retard, movies, tv shows, reality tv, interviews fake lighting all the fucking time you dunce, also
>if you don't want to buy into the newest hyped corporate thing, you're poor!
based retard consoomer mentality
Anonymous No.718754446 >>718754475
>>718754418
Sure thing, lil buddy. You sure are smart and handsome!
Anonymous No.718754475 >>718754568
>>718754446
you sure are full of shit.
Anonymous No.718754547 >>718754610
>>718754330
https://youtu.be/cqhDhJc0eLY?list=LL
Anonymous No.718754568
>>718754475
Anonymous No.718754610 >>718754647
>>718754547
I dont own cyberpunk, it isnt a game that interest me, same as rockstar games i dontlike CDPR games.
Anonymous No.718754647 >>718754687
>>718754610
what ray traced games have you tried then?
Anonymous No.718754687 >>718754728
>>718754647
going back to my original point: I dont use it because its not worth it. I said i can do it, not that i actually do it. Rather the whole point I've been making this entire time.
Anonymous No.718754728 >>718754821 >>718754923
>>718754687
>I can run it
>but I don't have games which use it
>and can't name any games which have it
>but believe me bro, it just werks on AMD
lol
Anonymous No.718754732
>>718735725 (OP)
bottom looks like art deco plastic
Anonymous No.718754739 >>718754793 >>718755179 >>718755845
>ray tracing is a meme
Anonymous No.718754793 >>718755054 >>718755135
>>718754739
>I want to seel less because it's... le realistic!
Anonymous No.718754821 >>718754889
>>718754728
my point has been this: realism and graphics dont make a good game, they never did. I have the ability to use the things you're dick-riding and i choose not too because i dont see the value in it.
Your argument seems ot be: i dont believe you cause if you could you would.

this leads me to believe that you cant, and wish you could. dont get jealous when i can and i dont.
Anonymous No.718754887 >>718755179 >>718755417
>raytracing does nothing bro it's just a reshade filter with some gamma changes
Anonymous No.718754889 >>718755968
>>718754821
>I can easily run it
This is the point I'm making. You can't run shit.
Anonymous No.718754923
>>718754728
>anon in charge of reading comprehension
Anonymous No.718754960
>>718735725 (OP)
>You can only calculate "real" lighting by simulating real physics!
If this was true about anything computers would work at a snail's pace. Ray tracing sucks because it's simply the least efficient method to light the environment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3so7xdZHKxw
Anonymous No.718754969
>>718735725 (OP)
But I have 4070S. I could use RT in many games, I just prefer to leave it off.
Anonymous No.718754985 >>718755020 >>718755120
>>718754418
The 9070 xt is one of the top RT cards out there now you fucking dipshit, this isnt 3 years ago you braindead nvidia fanboy. Fucking christ I hate corp fanboys.
Anonymous No.718754991
I have found that the discussion of graphics and rendering and PC hardware is beyond awful now. Can't shake the feeling it's related to the internet brownifying itself rapidly across the last decade.
Anonymous No.718755020 >>718755168
>>718754985
>The 9070 xt is one of the top RT cards out there now
holy shit the delusional faggot believes the words on the box
Anonymous No.718755054
>>718754793
Anonymous No.718755118
>>718735725 (OP)
There is no reason why it couldn't look like the bottom one without raytracing
Anonymous No.718755120 >>718755263 >>718755407 >>718755505
>>718754985
>it runs 44fps with upscaling to 1440p
>it runs it easily
no. it's shit
Anonymous No.718755135
>>718754793
this anon HATES to see shadows in video games
Anonymous No.718755168 >>718755263
>>718755020
Check benchmarks you drooling jeet shill, it's literally the RT equivalent of a 5070 which means the only cards capable of outperforming it in RT are all the north of 1000 dollar gpus and the 5070 ti ergo one of the top RT performers, yes far better than your 3060.
Anonymous No.718755179 >>718755303 >>718755845
>>718754739
In this case yes. If the devs weren't lazy they could achieve that without raytracing
Same here: >>718754887
Anonymous No.718755263 >>718755505
>>718755168
>checks benchmark
>44fps
>>718755120
>far better than your 3060
I get higher than your upscaling score when running native
Anonymous No.718755303 >>718755340 >>718755417 >>718755845
>>718755179
anon, that's the point
the devs purposefuly don't care about making static lighting look good so they can sell you the "improved lighting!", that's the whole scam
Anonymous No.718755340 >>718755410
>>718755303
>the devs want you to buy nvidia
lol
Anonymous No.718755359
>>718750676
>>718751636
Even LOTR has it in the commentary track
>Elijah Wood: Where does the lighting come from?
>The same place as the soundtrack
Anonymous No.718755395
>>718735725 (OP)
This is a PS3 game for fucks sake
Anonymous No.718755407 >>718755475
>>718755120
>the improved graphics don't count because it's only 44fps
Way to prove his point, retard.
Anonymous No.718755410
>>718755340
lmao retard
Anonymous No.718755417
>>718755303
>the devs purposefuly don't care about making static lighting look good so they can sell you the "improved lighting!", that's the whole scam
The non-RT lighting in this >>718754887 image, the lighting you claim was intentionally made to look bad just to "sell you the improved lighting", was the only lighting solution of Witcher 3 in 2015. It's not downgraded lighting to make RT look better in comparison, it's literally just what it looked like back then.
Anonymous No.718755475 >>718755532
>>718755407
>i can run it easily
>you should ignore the 40-44fps that my pc runs though
the point is that the people who hate ray tracing are always the ones who can't run it. it's easier to pretend it's a shit tech you don't like rather than admit you bought a shit pc which can't do it
Anonymous No.718755505 >>718755587
>>718755120
>path tracing
This setting brings every card to its knees and doesn't refute the point that the 9070 xt is one of the top RT cards currently available as there's only 3 or 4 cards capable of higher fps
>>718755263
lmfao I had a 3060 before upgrading to a 5070 and managed 70 fps native without any rt, there's no way this weak generations old gpu is running path tracing at all even upscaling from 360p you lying faggot
Anonymous No.718755523
>>718735725 (OP)
I just don’t think it’s there yet
Anonymous No.718755532 >>718755667
>>718755475
But he can run it and if 44fps isn't good enough all that means is that raytracing matters less than framerate.
Anonymous No.718755583 >>718757127
>>718735725 (OP)
Which one is the raytracing one?
Anonymous No.718755585 >>718758686
>>718751195
>No 1080

Excuse me it's still relevant, more relevant than half of these, so put the benchmark up there
Anonymous No.718755587 >>718755651
>>718755505
>you lying faggot
Anonymous No.718755623 >>718765714
>>718750648
You already admitted the lighting wasn't intentional though, thanks for playing.
Anonymous No.718755651 >>718755698
>>718755587
>posts a 4000 dollar gpu
Okay? The point wasnt that the 9070 xt is stronger than a 5090 Jesus christ
Anonymous No.718755667 >>718755795
>>718755532
>so can my ps5 then.
Anonymous No.718755670 >>718755731 >>718755783
>>718754165
Depends on the game most of the time RT makes no difference, in the case of cyberpunk I think the game looks worse from art direction point of view.
Anonymous No.718755695
>>718735725 (OP)
I hate ray tracing because it's an intellectually poor method.
Anonymous No.718755698 >>718755895
>>718755651
You said I had a 3060 and was full of shit. I've shown you to be wrong, again.
You're full of shit. Your GPU can't run ray tracing.
Anonymous No.718755712
>>718754165
Anonymous No.718755731 >>718755837
>>718755670
you do know psycho isn't path tracing?
Anonymous No.718755783 >>718755930 >>718756026
>>718755670
>amd gpu
lol
Anonymous No.718755795 >>718755831
>>718755667
Yeah at 30fps or less. If that's not good enough then you're just bolstering his argument.
Anonymous No.718755831 >>718755879
>>718755795
>if it runs 40fps then that's fine
lmao , poorfag cope
Anonymous No.718755837
>>718755731
You're right I had it set to psycho when I turned on RT, but the screenshot IS path tracing.
Anonymous No.718755845
>>718754739
>>718755179
>>718755303
How do you make this scene look as good this without ray tracing knowing that the area in the foreground is only being illuminated by indirect lighting sources from the background (the buildings reflecting the sunlight) without everything being fucking static because it's an open world with dynamic time of day/weather
Anonymous No.718755879
>>718755831
You don't even know what you're arguing for here. Get your shit in order.
Anonymous No.718755895 >>718756387
>>718755698
I have a 5070 and currently have all the RT settings at ultra native 1440p and get around 70 fps, considering the 9070 xt is the equivalent of this card in rt yes it can run RAY TRACING. Also, I doubt that's even your gpu lol 99% of the nvidia shills have some 60 series bullshit, usually a 3060 and are just assmad for whatever reason that RT is no longer a nvidia exclusive feature even though until recently no nvidia cards could play it at playable frames either. 44 fps on path tracing for AMD is a huge generational improvement so props to them, competition is a good thing and it means RT might no longer be just a meme soon enough.
Anonymous No.718755923 >>718756014
What gets me isn't the price it's the stupid delay, the temporal accumulated slop that takes 2sec to actually fully saturate or disperse means you get a scene where you turn off a fire or a light source and it slowly starts dimming or you quickly open a door in a game and you see the trails, the ghosting
You pay more for less or a game that looks worse than a 2015game at barely 10% of the performance for 10x the price

It's like playing a game with a 0.5, 1, 1.5 and 2sec screen burn in like artifacts
We went from rt reflections and ao like in metro exodus etc to u5 games that barely run on a 5090 at 900p and it all looks blurry and shitty
Worse looking games at worse framerates that you have to pay more for

Good consoomers will tell you to play with framegen but thats even worse, ot says 144fps bit it feels like 30-40
You'd have a better experience at 45 than 100+ fg because it's actually 30 fps
you can't buy a gpu that fixes all of that
It's not about not having the money its about jeet code that can't do anything and gpu manufacturers that make shitty products
Anonymous No.718755930 >>718756531
>>718755783
wow I can get an extra 7% performance by spending an additional 1000 dollars! you sure showed me brb I'm going to buy a 5080 right now!!!
Anonymous No.718755968 >>718756313
>>718754889
I cant find a post where he says he can easily run it. I think you're trying to strawman his point.
Anonymous No.718756014 >>718756107
>>718755923
>temporal accumulated slop
THIS is the reason RT is shit
Anonymous No.718756026 >>718756531
>>718755783
People who dick-ride nvidia are the same as people who dick-ride apple. Fucking insufferable. These companies actively hate you and sell you out and you keep eating their shit.
Anonymous No.718756043 >>718756101 >>718756756
still on 1660
still playing factorio and other indies
still not gonna use rt
still not gonna buy aaa slop
>ur poor lmao
still not upgrading
stay mad
Anonymous No.718756101
>>718756043
Factorio is fucking amazing. I've lost days to that game. That and satisfactory. Tried Blacksmith Master on gamepass? It's fun too.
Anonymous No.718756107
>>718756014
That's why i say there's no actual ray tracing yet
No hardware supports it
We had rt tech in the 90s it's not new it's just a cool tech demo gimmick tier consoomer bait
Dark age for tech and it's getting worse
Anonymous No.718756313 >>718756504
>>718755968
here you go faggot
>>718752467
Anonymous No.718756316 >>718756804 >>718759721
>>718748354
its no different
Anonymous No.718756387 >>718756481
>>718755895
>I doubt you have a 5090 because they're mystical objects which nobody has
I have 2x 5090s lol
Anonymous No.718756407 >>718756580
Anonymous No.718756439
>>718735780
>>718736081
I thought top was the raytracing one? It looks way betterand more interesting
Anonymous No.718756459
>>718735725 (OP)
>deploy ze anti-soul lighting
Anonymous No.718756481 >>718756513
>>718756387
You're so cool
Anonymous No.718756504 >>718756563 >>718756614
>>718756313
>myriad of benchmarks showing the 9070 xt is easily capable of ultra RT
>moves goalposts to compare it to a 5090 a 4000 dollar gpu that is barely even available and no one actually owns in a setting no was talking about just to continue fellating his favourite corporation
You lost fag
Anonymous No.718756513
>>718756481
I know.
Anonymous No.718756531
>>718755930
>>718756026
If you want the highest FPS per dollar and don't care about graphics then buy AMD. If you're going to use raytracing then buy Nvidia. End of story.
Anonymous No.718756532
>>718735780
I am this angry about my level of poverty.
Anonymous No.718756547
>>718735725 (OP)
I don't like raytracing because it kinda looks ugly and tanks performance.
Anonymous No.718756563 >>718756681
>>718756504
>you're moving goalposts
my point is that the 9070xt is shit at ray tracing
Anonymous No.718756580 >>718756608
>>718756407
right looks worse
Anonymous No.718756608 >>718756683
>>718756580
yes, left is path traced , right is regular lighting
Anonymous No.718756614 >>718756661 >>718756973
>>718756504
He can't accept it, it's why I stopped responding to him. Let him have his fantasy. I'm very happy with my set up, I went from a 1080ti to a 9070xt Taichi and I'm loving it. Let him be sour about it, he seems to need it. I hope hes having fun.
Anonymous No.718756661 >>718757103
>>718756614
>he's sour
>with his 5090
ha ha
Anonymous No.718756681 >>718756803
>>718756563
it's not lol and if it is that means every card but a 4000 dollar one is so it's a meme setting that no one can use unless they went to spend a down-payment on a car just to turn on
Anonymous No.718756683 >>718757183
>>718756608
got it.
it looks worse mainly on the face, the sweater and there's some weird light bleeding on the edges
this could look way better without rt
Anonymous No.718756756
>>718756043
okay
>puts on a VR headset and plays AAA in 8k
Anonymous No.718756803 >>718756973
>>718756681
I've asked numerous times to post your benchmarks and what rt games you've tried and each time danced around it.
I then posted a benchmark of your amazing RT GPU running like shit doing RT which you deflected to me having a 3060
You're one dumb bellend coping poorfag
Anonymous No.718756804
>>718740748
>>718756316
3d actually changed how games were made and played
rtx just hogs ressources for very little benefit
Anonymous No.718756973 >>718757219
>>718756803
I don't own that card I own a 5070 so I can't benchmark it but if you can just use your supposed 10000 dollar pc to Google you can find the information you're looking for.
>>718756614
Very nice anon, it's a killer gpu, AMD has made really impressive generational gains with the 9 series.
Anonymous No.718757010
Ray tracing is just a shortcut for lazy and untalented devs.
Simple as.
Anonymous No.718757036
>>718735725 (OP)
real time raytracing is objectively better than any other solution, but even on high end hardware it's not spatially stable enough yet
Anonymous No.718757103
>>718756661
they cant do anything but cope
Anonymous No.718757127 >>718757174
>>718755583
>Which one is the raytracing one?
The one where light actually bounces based on its proximity to the source of natural light, the one that doesn't look flat and drab like there's an even amount of light applied to every single square milimeter of the surface at the same exact angle.
Anonymous No.718757174 >>718757241
>>718757127
So the top one then.
Anonymous No.718757183 >>718757221
>>718756683
>this could look way better without rt
No, it can't. That's the point of RT. If you want good lighting on dynamic objects then this is the only way.
Anonymous No.718757219 >>718757430
>>718756973
I had the cash for the 5090, i actively chose to go with AMD due to how nvidia has been treatin gamers and favouring AI companies. Im not giving them money. Full team red until intel/nvidia can treat gamers with respect.
Anonymous No.718757221 >>718757425
>>718757183
of course it can
Anonymous No.718757241
>>718757174
No.
Anonymous No.718757414
>>718750676
was getting a bunch of anons to respond with useless irrelevant corrections (aka: derailment) part of your plan?
Anonymous No.718757425 >>718757604
>>718757221
Any method you can think of would be ruined the second the object moves.
Anonymous No.718757430
>>718757219
Agreed and desu I wish I waitfagged for the 9070 xt too, had no idea what AMD was cooking with those, thought it'd be more of the same impressive raster performance at a better value but the improvements to RT are up to 150-250% in some cases over the 7000 series which is insane. Now just need FSR4 more available but I think there's workarounds for that. Glad you enjoy your card.
Anonymous No.718757604 >>718757639
>>718757425
okay anon, i didn't realize you were a senior RT engineer or whatever. take care.
Anonymous No.718757639
>>718757604
No problem. You'll get it next time.
Anonymous No.718758167
>>718735725 (OP)
what do you want? lights placed by an artist or UE5 slop lighting
Anonymous No.718758278 >>718760787
>>718749485
>is that it looks like the devs intended.
the devs didn't intend for sunlight to be faked retard. they worked within limitations of the time
Anonymous No.718758405
>>718735725 (OP)
Raytracing is amazing. Just compare games that are stuck with old outdated raster lighting to actual next gen raytraced masterpieces.
Anonymous No.718758449
>>718735725 (OP)
Top is just dogshit lighting even by the standards of 20 years ago. It's a shit-ass comparison.
Anonymous No.718758556
>>718751256
>Ignore OPs post about needing a crutch to run RT on high end cards
Anonymous No.718758686
>>718755585
Considering it's considerably weaker than every card there i would say that it would be
>crashed
Anonymous No.718759106
>>718735725 (OP)
both are ugly
Anonymous No.718759398
>mogs all gaytraced games in its path
Anonymous No.718759503
>>718735725 (OP)
In both of these the devs put 0 effort into trying to make the scene not like shit
That's why it has to rely on RTX
Anonymous No.718759665
>>718736780
So delete all your textures and models for a big performance gain!
Anonymous No.718759667
>>718741109
I'm trying to play a video game, not rice out a scene in Blender
Anonymous No.718759721
>>718756316
Trolling used to believable
Anonymous No.718760060 >>718760361 >>718760708 >>718761725
RDR2 mogs every raytraced game with it's raster lighting even though it's kind of a bad game otherwise
Anonymous No.718760071
imo raytracing is beautiful but is it worth the computational demand?
Anonymous No.718760361 >>718763480
>>718760060
RDR2 got the same lighting problems in interiors as any other non-RT game. Everything's as brightly lit as there was no roof. RDR2 is very good looking but that's because of the environmental design and the scale and the sheer amount of work put into it, not because of any impressive tech.
Anonymous No.718760708
>>718760060
outside of clouds RDR2 is mediocre looking game
Anonymous No.718760787
>>718758278
What is that pic supposed to mean?
Anonymous No.718761054
>>718740940
I played dully pathtraced quake 2 on my rtx 2060. In stereoscopic 3d even. It was great
Anonymous No.718761725 >>718767146
>>718760060
way too dark for sunset
Anonymous No.718762390
>>718741035
>why don’t they have the time to fine tune custom lifting any more?
But they do. You can still fine tune things with RT. I have no idea what spawned this notion that whenever there's RT, the lighting artists just flick a switch and don't check anything. They do.
Anonymous No.718763189
>>718738283
Light map is an old technology and people use it for the static environments, dungeon with torches, moonlight on a graveyard, sunny beach.
Whenn you add real time moving sun, shadows from the sun can't be baked.
The only downside of light maps is a size.
Your textures already are heavy, and you add another layer of data on top of it. So in a game with 1024x1024 textures it's a great thing, in a game with 4k textures it's a shitty shadows for 25GB
Anonymous No.718763480 >>718764085
>>718760361
>Everything's as brightly lit as there was no roof.
As it fucking should, you mongoloid!
When you are inside your eyes adapt
Anonymous No.718764085
>>718763480
pretty sure you can still see shadows when your eyes adapt to the light.
Anonymous No.718764104
>>718741035
You still have to set lighting values for that sun and those lights and you can still do fancy things like make those lights only illuminate certain objects or only from certain angles, or ignore shadows, or only draw in reflections, the lights still have a lot of options.
The real point is that RT is holistic solution to lighting, you can have an artist spend time setting falloffs for lights, determining what lights emit shadows, what ones don't, having lights emit shadows based on distance to player, distance to camera, angle etc. have special additional lights to fake bounce lighting in a scene or you can just use ray tracing and have all of those things occur naturally, it's a great time saver for artists and can achieve a much better end image, the problem is that Nvidia wanted to push RT multiple generations before it was really viable, the first RT cards have 2RT cores per SM, later ones only have 1 because every single gen the amount of ray/triangle intersections doubles, so in theory an RTX50 series RT core can do 8x the amount of ray/triangle intersections per cycle per core than an RTX 20 series GPU, but that's an over simplification since you still need to build the BVH structure and store a separate RT scene in memory, and you need lots of cache and fast Vram to do this and there's still the GPU itself having to build that scene to render it, so even though it's 8x, it's not really 8x, but there's still a large jump in RT performance comparing an RTX 50 series GPU to an RTX 20 series GPU. There's also the issue where AMD went full retard and their RT solution was fucking trash, the RT cores aren't fully dedicated and some tasks are done on the GPGU, they rely on larger BVH structures so more BVH transitions have to occur and those large structures require more resources to maintain.
There was a serious lack of standardization and RT just isn't what it could be, but it's kind of 3d acceleration anyway, it will be the standard.
Anonymous No.718764532
>>718735725 (OP)
That's just a shit bake. You don't need real-time raytracing murdering the FPS here, it's all completely static. Just open the goddamn map editor and fix the probes.
Anonymous No.718764975
>>718735725 (OP)
>You hate raytracing because you are poor. And it's okay.

I can with run this game @ 120fps with ray tracing/natural vision enhanced with a RTX 4080.

I'm just here to inform you that no ray tracing is still shit.
Anonymous No.718765714
>>718755623
I think you might be illiterate
Anonymous No.718765861
>>718737726
Wow, it's just like a drawing you mean, like the game is supposed to look like? You would be right if it didn't go against the style of the game
Anonymous No.718766053
>>718741035
hammer already uses ray-tracing to bake lighting when it compiles the map
"ray tracing" as in RTX is done in real time, but when the environment doesn't change dynamically there's really no point in using it because you can already turn lights on or off with lightmaps for a fraction of the computing power required to do it in real time.
Anonymous No.718766137
Both looks ok.
Anonymous No.718766338
>>718735725 (OP)
>What? You can't afford a bag of shit?
Anonymous No.718767146
>>718761725
The non ray traced scene is better because there's more contrast. The contrast and colors make it looks like a western. Sunsets can look just as dark just as the sun disappears.