Thread 719867151

Somebody sell me on Hollow Knight. What's the big draw of this game?
Basically all I know is that its a metroidvania and "its good" and that's all.

its good because its new and its cool to like new things

Its a mediocre metroidvania that everybody pretends is good because "its hard". Silksong is also only liked because it " took too long" to make.

>>719867151 (OP)
It's good that it gives you a lot of stuff to do. The flaw is that it has quite a few empty corridors and backtracking.

>>719867151 (OP)
I am at a point where I firmly believe the people behind this game are nepobabies, that have an elite team of marketing behind it. It's a completely neutral game. Not good, not bad.
The level design is lame, mechanics are lame, didn't improve anything that has already been done.
And yet, for some reason Silksong is herald as some great awakening of game design.

>great bossfights
>very tight movement and satisfying combat once you get abilities and master movement and air control
>fun exploration
>appealing artstyle

>>719867151 (OP)
One of the most heartwarming things about HK is the Jewish representation (the banker lady). Silksong continues this diverse tradition by adding a merchant who charges you every time you enter his store

>>719867245
Basically, marketing rule the world. Create enough memes, spread them, e-celebs and their audience thinks their thoughts are original but it was all artificially manufactured by a team of people.

>>719867280
>great bossfights
No, link your favourite boss.
>very tight movement and satisfying combat once you get abilities and master movement and air control
It's a dogshit system where you have 10 choices to get out of any situation.
>fun exploration
So remember that area that you have already went, you should go back and see another hole that you can explore
>appealing artstyle
lmao

>>719867362
I think Nightmare King Grimm was the only boss I wanted to fight multiple times.

>>719867151 (OP)
>2d souls vania
It was a "unique" premise in 2017 when most indie devs were still doing precise platformers/puzzlers and looking for a new template. The premise was charming, the ghost was cute and the game was relatively noob friendly(compared to something like Rain world)

>>719867151 (OP)
Reasons why Team Cherry succeeded while your retarded cousin's indieslop metroidvania failed...
1 - Team Cherry co-founder Ari Gibson used to lead an animation studio called Mechanical Apple, and the end result is that everything is animated charmingly well in a unique style.
2 - FROMSOFTWARE-style ambiguous but deep lore, side-quests you can fail and very little handholding - take it or leave it but lorefags love this shit.
3 - While easy to roll credits, Hollow Knight has in-game support for restriction-focused boss gauntlet stuff and and a largely unmatched-in-difficulty endgame for 'hardcore' players, in addition to permadeath modes, etc.
If you don't give a shit about the above Hollow Knight will not really register with your brain - buy a Sony moviegame that plays itself and tells the story in a big fat exposition dump instead.
>>719867362
A lot of literal retards like this anon will always hate Hollow Knight and never really know why it has fans.

Silkucks, our responds?

>>719867151 (OP)
Because it sprinkled a bit of Dark Souls on the metroidvania formula before it got so pervasive that "Souls-like" became a phrase

I think we are at an inverse point of e-celeb culture. Back then e-celeb shaped the views of players, countless AVGN retard actually thought that games like Ninja Gaiden were bad just because he spouted shit. But now, a new generation of e-celebs that wanna rise up play what is currently trendy among the players. Why do you think so many new youtubers who never played MGS start playing MGS3 remake?

>>719867151 (OP)
Lots of eye candy, has decent combat, nice atmosphere, interesting narrative premise in that you're playing as bug people in a bug world. The levels meander a bit and its easy to get lost if you're not focused, it's also "hard" for some. It's a neat, cheap little game to run through once or twice, it's not gonna change your life or make you tear up when you hear a song and remember your recently deceased friends and/or family liked the game. It's just neat.

>>719867151 (OP)
It's one of those 7/10 games that redditors pretend it's 10/10 masterpiece. It's also cheap as fuck and runs on a toaster, so it attracts a bunch of poor turd worlders.

>>719867151 (OP)
>Basically all I know is that its a metroidvania and "its good" and that's all.
That's all there is to it and all there needs to be

It's got a really nice soundtrack too

>>719867151 (OP)
atmosphere. music and sound effects are probably the best i've ever seen in the vidiya. Really brings out the whimsy

>>719867151 (OP)
I just think it looks pretty and feels smooth. It's pleasant to my senses.

>>719867864
this is the actual, objective truth. i'm not even joking. this is what's happening.

it's just enough "difficult" for redditor pseudo-gamers to feel that they've achieved something because they FINALLY played a fucking game (le heckin' INDIE game even). so they have to hype it up like the coming of christ to keep up the delusion that they're epic gamers and this is one game that they played is such a MASTERPIECE!!! and one reason for this is that by doing that they don't have to play other games because uhh i'm just waiting for silksong WHEN'S SILKSONGGG???!!. these are the kind of people who mostly consume games through streams and youtube videos.

like this is the reality of the situation for the most part. turns out there's TONS of these retards as well. silkksong is literal mass delusion "hype" from pseudo-gamers. and this is not even that uncommon phenomenon, happens all the time, this one has just had 7 years of build-up.

>>719868553
Bro are we really in a simulation? I am literally watching a fox engine video, you posted this gif? What the fuck is happening?

You don't like good games? I've only seen a handful of good games in the past two decades, it's fucking mind-blowing every time someone releases a good game

>>719868708
Hollow knight is the minimal viable bar for a good game. The problem is it being treated as a legendary game.

>>719867151 (OP)
Lots of padding
Woman-friendly artstyle
Forced Souls mechanics for the gamer cred

>>719868782
Why is that a problem? So long as there's a drought on good games the few good releases will stand out as legendary. People would prefer having good and excellent games but it shouldn't be surprising that people are losing their minds over good games if the rest of them are simply dogshit

>>719867151 (OP)
Shovel Knight gameplay in a Souls game format. That's literally it.

>>719868917
There's plenty of good games releasing, hollow knight certainly isn't one of them. Get a different hobby already.

>>719869018
What games?

>>719867151 (OP)
Konami doesn't make good Castlevanias anymore. Their last good game was Order of Eccelisa and that was 15 years ago.
Nintendo doesn't make Metroid anymore. They outsourced to a spanish studio and strip out the soul. Dread was okayish.

Hollow Knight is a good metroidvania during a time when no one was making metroidvanias. The genre only started to get flooded by cash grabs BECAUSE of Hollow Knight.

>>719867151 (OP)
It's a boring game that got popular with the normies because of its vaguely inspired dark soulsesque visuals (knights,chapels,a doomed king) and mechanics (corpse run,flask)
A game that would have completely bombed had it released 20 years ago

>>719867245
it's not hard at all outside of maybe 2 bosses and one other thing in the base game. All the challenge is in the post game which takes 30-40 hours to even get to.
Silksong is fucking brutal thoughever
People like it because it's fucking ginormous. It's easily 5x bigger than Super Metroid and I'm being generous, it's probably bigger than that.

>>719867151 (OP)
The metroidvania aspect is not even great, it's ok. Most fun part of the game are the bosses and challenges, there is so much of that here.
Being a Kirby faggot helps, I guess. Otherwise I doubt you'll like any of that.

>>719867151 (OP)
a shitty outdated game with really shallow combat where you spam a pissy little swipe over and over.

The amount of seethe HK and SS causes in /veetards/ never ceases to amaze me
It is a game full of SOVL. Any attempt to disparage it just feels empty and wrong to those who have actually played it because there are very few who play it and beat it who didn't enjoy it thoroughly
Disliking popular things doesn't make one interesting. Many of the criticisms levied against it, in this very thread, no less, are either purely opinion or just straight up wrong. HK isn't necessarily one of my favorite games, I only have 70h in it, and haven't even gotten the true ending, but you have to be retarded to not recognize the artistic merit here and think it's anything less than a 9
>tone and atmosphere are perfect
>music is wonderful, being both melencholic and whimsical at once
>visuals are all stunning, hand-drawn assets with a solid variety that maintains a consistent theme throughout
>movement is enjoyable
>combat is simple on the surface, but there are pleanty of upgrades, spells, build variety, etc. That allow for more complex play
>bosses are great and memorable
>charm system is, again, simple yet effective
>exploration is fun. It's easy to get lost but you never feel truly lost as there are multiple paths to take to reach various goals after the first area
>characters, in design and execution, are endearing, loveable, and memorable
>story is well done despite being in the background most of the time, yet it's fitting that it is in the background because of who the protagonist is
It is objectively one of the best games ever made. Thinking otherwise is just wrong on so many levels. I can understand it not clicking for people who aren't into this genre, but you shouldn't take anyone who says it's shit seriously

>>719867151 (OP)
/v/ loved hollow knight before it got popular. Now all threads are like this. Meaning, its great

Is there a Godmaster in this game? That's the best part of thr original.

>>719870069
>nail upgrades
>directional swings, including pogoing off enemies with downward slashes
>3 nail arts
>3 damage spells (each with upgrades)
>charms that modify how nail works
>charms that modify how spells work
>charms that deal direct damage on conditions
>charm that makes your movement do contact damage

>>719870424
>>719870253
How much do they pay you for this?

>>719870526
I do it for free
But desu /vaggots/ being upset at my posts are payment enough

>>719867151 (OP)
It's barely a Metroidvania, and it's not good.

>>719870424
>directional swings, including pogoing off enemies with downward slashes
"get this right, that same shitty little 2 frame slash graphic appears in font of your character again... but this time in a different direction"
fucking ground breaking mate.
too bad this isn't the 1980s where that absence of combat depth would be ok.

>>719867151 (OP)
Reddit game

>>719870725
>ignores the rest of my post
Also
>charms to increase slash distance
>charms to increase slash speed
>charms to make anon seethe

>>719867151 (OP)
Its a mid-core Metroidvania.
Movement isn't on par with the best Metroid games or Symphony of the Night, its just kind of basic.
Combat feels worse then those games too, and doesn't even hit the "meh" moments of normal 2D platformers either.
Visually the game's style looks like a flash game in stills, but admittedly DOES look good in motion. Just wish the artstyle was better.

>>719871093
you realize that's like the most pathetic irrelevant RPG buff slop ever? imagine trying to sell a game on that basis.
other games have combo chains, heavy attacks, grapples, charge attacks.
meanwhile you have
>slash distance is 2 pixels wider when you're hp is below 10%

>>719871350
>lying: the post
Also
>whataboutism
Just give up
You're wrong
There's no need for you to be upset

>>719867151 (OP)
>What's the big draw of this game?

The artstyle is very charming and the music's nice. Quite honestly that's it, that the only reason anyone likes this game. All its other aspects are really quite bad. The game is far too slow, the upgrade system is barebones, it's boring to play and boring to watch. But the little bug people are very charming and that's why it has a fanbase.

It's a good game that gets elevated by its presentation, it's really that simple.
Just a solid foundation with a unique and charming art style and good soundtrack and (for metroidvania standards) above average writing.
Simple as.
Games are more than the sum of their parts. We call this sovl here.
(4channers will call it soulless because they don't know that it means, they just see that it's popular and thus feel obligated to hate it).

tl:dr: solid game + SOVL = very good game

>>719871524
I'm not wrong the game has shitty shallow combat that's woefully substandard.

>>719871689
You are wrong for all of the reasons I already mentioned
You are objectively wrong
The combat is not shitty, nor shallow. Your use of the word "substandard" also proves that youre braindead as youre compaing it to other games as if that means anything instead of looking at the game on its own. You have zero critical thinking.

>>719867151 (OP)
mostly the artstyle, it's very charming in the presentation and the characters

exploration goes without saying in a metroidvania except the map is kinda shit in hk
it's just a very tedious game with shitty souls mechanics, non story, simplistic combat and also vastly overstays it's welcome

it's not a bad game, like 8/10 but the hype makes no sense whatsoever

Celeste was a mid-game that was hailed as good for no reason.
Hollow Knight is the same, except the hype as reached critical mass.

>>719867151 (OP)
Atmosphere. First game really feels mysterious and creepy in a way that gives you goosebumps

>>719872207
it's sub standard bro it's not even real combat.
it's the most unimpressive minimalistic moveset ever. there are nes games with more combat depth.

>>719872537
You expect a hollow knight preacher to understand the depth of mechanics? Modern games can't play a game without air-controllable jumps.

>>719867151 (OP)
Hollow knight is just a solid metroidovania. It's getting hate only because its popular.

>>719871524
>whataboutism
This must be the gayest /pol/ psyop.
The fact reddit came up with a silly name for this specific argument doesn't discredit the argument in any way, fuck you.

>>719873235
>solid metroidovania
whenever people say "solid" it usually means that the game does nothing new or interesting, every challenge can be either ignored or cheese through, the game plays it completely safe. Which brings me to the most retarded mechanic: the amount of times you can heal

Just a Dork Souls/Metroidvania hybrid.
Tedious mechanics. World and lore are pretty good, though.
Ori did everything better.

>>719867151 (OP)
>What's the big draw of this game?
99 other monkeys are playing it

>>719873810
This, I like Ori more.

>>719869232
>during a time when no one was making metroidvanias
This is just blatantly false. At that time almost every indie game was a metroidvania.

>>719874187
La-Mulana, Axiom verge, ribi rabi, guacamelee and uhm...

>>719874338
And a million other forgettable games that got no attention, that's the point. Hollow Knight could have easily been one of them.

>>719874469
Other than hollow knight only Salt and Sanctuary tried to be 2D souls at that point in time iirc
>Hollow Knight could have easily been one of them
Maybe, but the stars aligned for its sake and it slowly became a successful baby's first search action game and a powerful meme.

>>719867151 (OP)
shitty game design and horrible art style, inferior in every way to at least 10 other modern metroidvanias

but its freaking DARK SOULS DUDE WITH HADR BOSSES WOAHH

AND ITS FREAKING FLASH ART BRO ITS INDIE TRUST ME DUDE IT DOESNT LOOK LIKE AN EBAUMS WORLD BROWSER GAME see its freaking "beautiful" and INDIE bro

>>719874959
Also the bosses ain't hard.

https://youtu.be/WlFph3TAfGE?t=165
God gamer knows it too.

>>719867151 (OP)
Do you like bland looking locales and boring as fuck exploration with combat based on moving left a bit then moving right a bit and attacking or bouncing on enemies 45 times to kill them?

>>719875175
>It's not a top tier metroidvania.
>It's for people who haven't played any metroidvania at all.
Holy based.

>>719875175
>If you have played 5-6 metroidvania to competition, then you know that this game's difficulty is not at par with most metroidvanias.

>>719873676
Kek. It's not that you merely don't understand why arguments of whatbaoutism should be dismissed, it's that you kept using them because you can't argue for shit and now you're mad that you either rarely have a point or are not eloquent enough to convey it.

Most anons read past your little rant but I see why you're upset and it's absolutely delicious. Unfiltered rage of a self reporting midwit, kek.

>>719875175
>that's why you like it. It's fairly casual and then you get to look up on reddit how to get 112% and then you feel like you have accomplished something.

>>719867151 (OP)
I think the best part is just finding and facing new things. But Hollow Knight was too big for me, would liked it more if it was more compact experience.

>>719875175
>>719875314
But he never told what are those top tier metroidvanies. :l

>>719873676
Holy fuck you're legit retarded
whataboutism
/ˌwɒtəˈbaʊtJz(ə)m/
noun

the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.

>>719867864
>It's also cheap as fuck and runs on a toaster, so it attracts a bunch of poor turd worlders.
Yeah, I can definitely see that, especially when Silksong is even cheaper on non-USD countries. For example, here in Mexico it only costs the equivalent to around $12 dollars.

>>719875175
the only based streamer left

>>719875426
reddit spacing lmao

>>719875591
lmao

>>719875552
watch more than 30 seconds retard zoomer

>>719875678
I watched him play the game. And I agree with some complaints like if the game has good fights why hide them so hard or why does the game have so much time spent traveling. (I know you walk around in metroidvanias but it could been less)

>>719875631
>we wuz the real reddit spacers n shiet
>40 seconds to find that shit and post it
damn the indians are fast these days

>>719867694
Its also why so many e-celebs have such boring, safe takes on literally everything too. They want to be as agreeable as possible.

its a fun game, a little slow at first like all metroid-likes, a masterpiece right in the middle and the a little slow by the end again, the art is really good, both visuals and sound are perfect, exploration is really good but sometimes it gets boring when backtracking due to the levels being so big

>>719875175
>like Blasphemous blows this one out of the water
This nigga's raping Hollow Shills without lube holy shit

>>719875678
Yes so what are those games? He didn't say them on the vid or in his playthrough lol. All he said was mention castlevania only to follow it with "but it was shit too, but it was fine because it's old".

>>719875557
anon 1:
>Hollow Knight has mechanics like ...
anon 2:
>I don't consider that shit mechanics because "mechanics" in other games are a lot more substantial *provides examples*
anon 1:
>le WHATABOUTISM

Conclusion: your fake and gay redditor propaganda term wasn't even used correctly, you suck cocks.

>>719875175
>Risk Of Rain 1 is a better game that Risk of Rain 2, true gamer knows it
>Normies will disagree because it looks their favourite fartnite

>>719875591

Tourist buzzword. Go back to facebook, faggot.

>>719876534
you're so mad lol
majority of posts itt don't get a reply at all, yet you decided to give attention to something THIS devoid of substance
the level of seethe is off the charts

Artstyle

>>719874469
But it's not since the gameplay and bosses are better.

>>719867151 (OP)
>Somebody sell me on Hollow Knight. What's the big draw of this game?
No, it's not for the likes of you.

>>719867151 (OP)
>Somebody sell me
No one should ever seriously respond to threads like this. This guy hasn't played a video game in 10 years.

People who care way too much about people liking a game "more than they should" according to them are fags.

>>719867151 (OP)
I dropped tge game but will pick it up again on a later date, possibly next year.

>the good
movement isn't bad and some things behave the way you think they do.
>the bad
is it really necessary to have an auto-save system that ruins everything after a singular death? you lose ressources that aren't easy to come by anymore once you've gotten them.

for me it has been a 6/10 experience so far and I was in the area with the homing jellyfish cores.

>>719867151 (OP)
I find it funny people were using HK to shit on Metroid Dread when it came out and was short (like every Metroid game can be), and were acting like HK was better because it was longer. When in Reality HK being longer makes me more likely to drop it because its so fucking boring.

>>719881936
that was my firat impression even though I didn't get very far

>>719867206
>>719867260
Is this game similiar to ori in terms of clunky mechanics?, i didnt like that one desu

Knighty has a charm to him that makes me sort of enjoy the experience.

Hallownest is a grim and morose place but there's this little guy who just trundles along and tries to make it a better place. He seems unaffected by how bad things are, just that he's on a mission to make it right.

The fact he shows no emotions probably is why that works. It makes him seem disaffected by his surroundings.

Switch version any good? I happen to have access to that but haven't played it yet.

>>719871350
>combo chains, heavy attacks, grapples, charge attacks.
you literally have heavy/charge attacks in hollow knight
you have tricks like shade soul multihits
you have charms to give you new mechanics and forms of racking up damage separate from the starting moveset

i dont see the problem

>>719869664
Being a longer game isnt a good thing unless you're just some slop consumer. Super Metroid is way more tightly designed than Hollow Knight. Its vastly more fun to explore and feels rewarding when you finish. Hollow Knight feels like a slog a third of the way through, its way too long an emeritus just starts to blend together.

>>719867280
>great bossfights
it's a 2d sidescroller....
>very tight movement and satisfying combat once you get abilities and master movement and air control
it's a 2d sidescroller....
>fun exploration
lmao, it's a 2d sidescroller what are you doing?
>appealing artstyle
well okay that one is subjective

>>719880902
Same goes for the people who are angry/puzzled why someone isn't consuming the same thing the rest of the cattle is consuming.

>>719881765
Wew lad is this post real

>>719870253
>No, it was dull
>No, it was extremely dull and generic
>Too one note per area, but it's one of the game's stronger points
>No
>OK but they take forever to unlock
>No, not really
>Obvious winning setups
>The fuck it was. Worst exploration I've seen in its genre.
>Irrelevant to actually enjoying the game
>Also irrelevant to actually enjoying the game
You are a faggot.

>>719871093
This just in, Hollow Knight invented basic upgrades.

>>719867151 (OP)
yes its a good vania with some souls-like mechanics and some tedious parts
just watch a gameplay video and see for yourself if you want to play it or nah

>>719873676
The Internet didn't exist when than term was coined you illiterate retard.

>>719867151 (OP)
i also didn't get the hype. Whole game felt like an exercise in the most artificially difficult gameplay ever.
Only reason i can think of besides gamers obsessing over needlessly difficult shit for no other reasons than "it's like, hard and shit" are the worldbuilding and atmosphere.
But even then...
>boring static backgrounds
>typical 2d plat shit
>half the enemies are these badass bugs and the other half cutesy shit
>a million random rooms that serve no purpose besides inflating the time to travel around the world

The constant artstyle whiplash was seriously messing with me. Asked someone i knew why they liked it and their response was "It's so cool! And the bugs are cute!"

>>719867245
reminder that they've spent millions on shilling/ads
just having your game on gamescom and gamefest costs 300-500k

it's a decent "hard" metroidvania with a unique style and feel
>>719867206
it's cool to hate new things here though

>>719867151 (OP)
>>719867280
>>719867462
>>719870364
>>719873235
>Not even as hard as other 2d indieshit like Super Meatboy
>Ohmagawd its a Metroidvania1! just means 2d action game but with added backtracking

Backtracking is boring and only low IQ tourists fall for this gimmick. There is nothing special about Hollow Knight aside from being cheap and being able to run on cheap laptops so indians can overhype it.