Thread 725238975

>Game gives you an attack that has 100% Accuracy
>Miss Anyway

G1 Pokemon. Programming is hard.

undodgeable attack vs unhittable target

luck is a broken stat it either works or it doesn't

100% accuracy means your attack is going to hit if your target stands around. It still needs to go through the dodge mechanic.
Cope.

>"this attack never misses and always kills whoever it hits!"
>it does
>multiple times in fact
This is every single "100% kill" attack ever written in media and I hate it

>>725238975 (OP)
>True accuracy vs true evasion.

lancer is such a fag

>>725238975 (OP)
>>725239419
>>725239290
>>725239771
It didn't miss, Saber was still wounded. The reverse causality stuff just wrote into reality that the spear struck the heart. The Luck stat basically says it TECHNICALLY struck the heart when pierced the body and grazed the heart.
But otherwise, once reverse causality is invoked, reality will bend over backward to make it happen (Like lancer could literally try to stab himself through his Mouth or Ass and reality will warp space and time to make the spear hit the intended target)

>>725238975 (OP)
>not putting a sure-hit CE to your blue man

>>725239824
>>725239651
>>725239419
>>725239376
kino...

>>725238975 (OP)
>fate/stay writing

>>725239824
>wounded
This means jackshit

>>725240934
This is what living in the mountains does

>>725238975 (OP)
Saber has a canon penis btw.

Can someone explain to me in the original FSN anime by DEEN, in the first battle where Gilgamesh first appears to show off his abilities, he pulls out this ice dagger and a scythe and appears to use it's abilities. The Dagger throws a gust of wind that leaves ice on Saber's blade and the Scythe seems to be able to close the distance and land a hit on sabers armguard magically somehow.

Why doesn't he do that in UBW? Why did Nasu completely forget about Gil in Fate route?

>>725241198
god bless merlin

>>725241250
just DEEN things

>>725241250
Nasu just had UBW Gilgamesh rely entirely on swordspam so that Shirou could beat him. Gilgamesh was shown to be competent at using all of his weapons in the Fate route, but if he did that in UBW Shirou would have had no way to win once he closed in on Gilgamesh during the swordspam contest.
>>725241473
I'm pretty sure I remember Gilgamesh doing that in the VN too. He actually fought using the weapons from his GOB in Fate when fighting Saber and just swordspammed Shirou.
Maybe you could say that Gilgamesh doesn't consider anyone other than Saber to be worthy of an actual melee fight

>>725239824
>people still say this dogshit series is good
lmao

>>725239419
No he missed because of sabers luck stat

Gil is a completely different character in FSN

Where do I start with this series? It has always seemed really shitty, but it also seems like the cringe kind of shonen/romance that my girlfriend likes.

>>725241713
It's been like 18 years since I read the VN but I don't remember Gil ever using weapons directly bedsides Ea. I know he does in shit like Extra and obviously the musou but thats just gameplay not story.

Actually maybe I'm retarded he fought shirou in ubw with weapons directly so nvm.

>everyone thought assassin was gonna lose
>assassin actually rips out Lancer's still beating heart
It was kino

>>725242092
watch fate/ zero with her

>>725242389
Fate/Zero isn't canon

>>725238975 (OP)
It's divinity that allows them to dodge it, since the always hit is a form of magic.

>>725242125
>It's been like 18 years since I read the VN but I don't remember Gil ever using weapons directly bedsides Ea. I know he does in shit like Extra and obviously the musou but thats just gameplay not story.
>Actually maybe I'm retarded he fought shirou in ubw with weapons directly so nvm.

NTR rapist for true love to overcome in Fate, real villain for the fake hero to prove his ideal in UBW, jobber in HF to show how serious the situation has become. Uro is the one that started the whole "charismatic villain" thing in Zero, and Nasu liked it enough to give it his own spin in CCC, and that's the brunt of it. Babylonia is just CCC Gil in a different setting.

>>725242434
retard

>>725239112
Gen 2 is the best pokemon after all

>>725242510
in english doc

>>725242030
he's pretty much the same

>>725242389
don't watch fate/zero. Don't watch any anime adaptations. Read the VN. And if you have ADHD, just watch something else because being the animes aren't worth it

>>725242092
Just read the VN.

>>725242605
Gilgamesh was only well written once but that characterization not only overwrote how he was interpreted by fans but was also made retroactively canon in a manner that causes incongruity.

>>725242510
oh nvm your talking about gil but gotta say I don't agree with all of this chief but I see your points
>>725242729
yeah nasu is a fag I agree

>>725240506
>>725239824
ok that's kinda cool in a severely retarded way

>>725242389
>>725242616
The anime adaptations of the Fate VN and the Fate/Zero LN are kind of bad. It have serious issues with representing what is actually going on mechanically in the fights and magic. As well as the characterizations especially with introverted characters.

>>725242827
welcome to fate

>>725242838
Yeah, I agree with you. Can't believe most people only know fate through the anime and gacha slop

>>725242092
Just watch ufotable's adaptations in any order and be done with the series

>>725242510
FGO Babylonia Gilgamesh is supposed to be Gilgamesh when he took his job as a King seriously after his struggle with mortality.

Armoured Gilgamesh is supposed to represent the arrogant King that abuses his authority to the point the gods tried to intervene by making Enkidu.

>>725242092
If you want to watch with your gf, start with Fate/Zero or the Fate/UBW anime. Zero's the most entertaining watch for someone with zero background into Fate but it spoils most of Fate/Stay Night's major reveals. If you have big balls, start with the Studio Deen adaptation since its the only anime adaptation of the route you're supposed to start with first. If you start with Zero, you can either watch the Deen adaptation next or skip it and move onto UBW. Save Heaven's Feel for last (and maybe read the VN for it instead)
If you want to experience Fate solo, read the VN or watch Fate/Zero first. Zero completely hooks you into Fate's world and does a great job of making you want to see how the story goes down. Fate/Stay Night is much more character-driven and better about the shonen/romance aspects (and is also a much more impactful story than Zero)

F/Z anime was really good until the fucking bat cave prop room fight. ufotable is good like 85% of the time. They butchered heaven's feel though.

>>725238975 (OP)
Fate is literally a bunch of good moments buried in a sea of shit
What a waste of a series

>>725243081
Starting with Fate/Zero has to be the most retarded take ever. You won't understand a thing and get spoiled about every single relevant plot point in UBW and HF.
There's a reason Fate Zero was released after the main game. FSN does every single thing better when it comes to characterizations, fights, ost and romance.

>>725242510
>Uro is the one that started the whole "charismatic villain" thing in Zero
Not really. Gilgamesh sticks pretty close to what was already established in Zero. He's an overlord from an ideal past so he dislikes the modern world, where people live unfulfilling lives (which is why he hates Shinji). He synergizes with Kirei because he can push him to become his real self. The fact Kirei's real self is evil doesn't matter to him, because he values authenticity over morality. He's just operating on logic that's unlike most people's; but that's the whole point of heroes in Fate, they're supposed to be extreme cases of what people can be. Shirou is the diametrical opposite of Gilgamesh, where he wants to save people even if that desire is a complete illusion.

The one that really won Nasu over with charisma was Iskandar. He wrote Nero in response to that character.

>>725242531
F/SN VN states:
>Ilya is the first humanoid grail vessel
>Kiritsugu couldn't recognize Shirou was using a reality marble while Rin could
>Kirei won the 4th HGW
>No one found out who Saber was during the 4th HGW
>No one found out who Archer (Gilgamesh) was during the 4th HGW
>The boat crashed on the shore by the bridge was set up by Kiritsugu to absorb the blast of Saber's excaliblast during a battle against another servant by the river during the 4th HGW
>Saber had never encountered any pushback against her ideals
F/Z states
>Iri was a humanoid grail vessel before Ilya and there were others before
>Kiritsugu had a reality marble
>Kiritsugu won the 4th HGW
>Everyone easily figured out who Saber was
>Archer told everyone he was Gilgamesh
>Kiritsugu was watching Saber fight a giant kaiju everyone in the city could see on the water from the comfort of his boat. The boat isn't even hit by the excaliblast, it simply gets pushed to the shore by the waves as Saber shoots her blast off into the sky
>Saber, Archer, and Rider debate their ideals and every servant plus Kiritsugu all mock Saber for her ideals

Retard

>>725242838
I think it skipped over a characterization scene with Waver? Where he actually failed to hypnotize the old couple he was staying was in Japan. (The old couple pretty much knew that he wasn't actually their son, but played along because of what they missed)

It is especially egregious that the Fate/Zero failed to adapt Tokiomi's internal thoughts about family decision which showcases how incredibly cutthroat and dangerous the mage association is.

>>725243264
But the anon asking is already convinced that Fate is an awful series. He'll start with Fate and go, "This shit's for gay nigger babies in high school" and drop it without giving it a chance. Zero is perfect for secondaries who only care about hype moments and aura and watching "mature" anime. Therefore, anon should start with Zero

>>725242827
That's fate for you

>>725242030
Gil in FSN is a little bitch boy who gets fucked up in every route

>>725243383
Why are there so many retcons and inconsistencies in the Fate series?

>>725243394
>If only he would be able to pass the treasure that he got from his father onto his daughter –Tokiomi thought sadly.
>However, that was already impossible to be achieved.
>For Rin and Sakura, there were no choices for them in the first place.
>One of them has all elements, having five multiple elements as her alignment. The other has no elemental alignments, having Imaginary Numbers only. Both sisters have a rare potential that can be equated to miracles. This had surpassed the limits of so-called natural talents or inborn skill; it is almost like a curse.
>A magical nature would equally gather magical powers to it. Prominent people who are far outside the rules inevitably ‘gather’ equally extraordinary experiences. This can not be controlled by the person’s own will. There is only one way to deal with this kind of a destiny – consciously walk away from the rules yourself.

>Apart from understanding and practicing the way of magecraft themselves, there are no other ways to deal with the magical powers hidden in the blood of Tokiomi’s daughters. Moreover, the protection of the Tosaka house can only be endowed on one of them. This fact tormented Tokiomi for a long time. The one who did not become the inheritor would get mired in all kinds of odd evens due to her own blood, and trouble wound find her. If the Association found this kind of ‘ordinary humans’, those guys would definitely gladly put her in formaldehyde as a specimen in the name of ‘protection’.
>Precisely because of that, it was nothing better than a godsend for the Mato house to hope to have Sakura as their adopted daughter. He had obtained the way to have both his beloved daughters inherit first-class magecraft, unconstrained by their bloodline’s consequence, and carve out their own lives. At that time, Tokiomi could be said to be freed from the heavy burden of being a father.

Here's some more context from the Fate/Hollow Ataraxia VN.

>>725238975 (OP)
That's just Ragnarok Online, you can have hits which can't be dodged through the Flee stat (based on agility) but Perfect Dodge (based on luck) still works.

>>725243394
>I think it skipped over a characterization scene with Waver?
Literally in the anime
>Tokiomi's internal thoughts about family decision which showcases how incredibly cutthroat and dangerous the mage association is.
Literally in the anime during his duel with Kariya

If you are only gonna watch only anime for whatever reason do this
>DEEN Fate/Stay Night anime it's jank but fuck you
>DEEN UBW Movie
>ufotable Fate/Zero
>ufotable UBW, yes its basically a sequel makes no sense but thats just how it works in ufotable land
>ufotable HF, it sucks ass compared to the VN but it's all animu fags get

>>725243573
A inherited magic crest is basically the first line of defense against sealing designation. Kayneth's fiance basically have precarious issue because she didn't inherit the family Magic crest.

>>725242827
Fights with him get into bullshit asspull territory every time except the very first fight in the prologue with Archer.
Him vs TA? He leans on his protection from arrows and doesn't even bother blocking TA's attacks, they're automatically deflected just because he knows about them existing.
Him vs Archer? Immovable object vs unstoppable force.
Vs Gil in the basement? Protection from arrows ceases working because bullshit. No tool Gilgamesh has in his arsenal that wouldn't be a bigger blow to his pride than just losing would have worked, so naturally he gets off-screen'd to keep the plot going.

>>725243440
Zero is average and only destined to fans of the series who want more. It's in no way made to be an entry point to the series and the fact kids die doesn't magically make it a better or more mature story.
It'll just make him hate it even more because it's mediocre and poorly explained. I've tried to get 3 people into the series, and the only time it worked was with the VN, because that's the superior version by every mean.
Fate has to be experienced by the VN first because that's where it started. Every anime are only adaptations. If he's unable to even read a book, he can always do something else. Better than than wasting time watching 2 episodes of F/Z, not understanding a single thing and then dropping the series altogether.

What reader expected
>reflex save vs gay bulge
What reader got
>luck save vs gay bulge

>>725243664
No, Tokiomi's internal thoughts weren't in the anime, see: >>725243664

What he only said to Kariya was a paraphrased version of this: ">"This is especially so since my wife is very outstanding as a mothering body. Both Rin and Sakura are born with equal and rare natural talents. Both daughters must have the protection of a house of magi. Robbing away one's potential for the other's future - no father would hope for such a tragedy to occur."
"

>>725243520
Fate/Zero was written by someone else as a spin-off that was part of Notes' (the company that owns Type Moon, the creators of Fate) attempt at promoting their first commercial work with a multi-media campaign. Around that time they secured deals for a deluge of adaptations such as games, anime, manga and the light novel spin-off: Fate/Zero.

>>725243383
are you also mad they removed the sex scenes?

>>725243673
Here's a better take: Don't watch the animes. If you can't read a novel, watch something else.

>>725243832
oops see: >>725243573

>>725242827
congratulations, you've perfectly summarized fate's appeal.

Was Fate route really that bad?

>>725243664
No, Tokiomi's internal thoughts weren't in the anime, see: >>725243573

What he only said to Kariya was a paraphrased version of this: ">"This is especially so since my wife is very outstanding as a mothering body. Both Rin and Sakura are born with equal and rare natural talents. Both daughters must have the protection of a house of magi. Robbing away one's potential for the other's future - no father would hope for such a tragedy to occur."
"

>>725243914
I was directing that to the guy that can't read but yes no shit read if you can

>>725243864
>Time to move the goalpost!
Concession accepted

test am I banned again

>>725243985
No it was just painfully average. Just like turkeyhandls main route.

>>725243985
Its secretly the best on account of having the least amount of negatives to it compared to UBW and HF. However, the anime-only episodes ruin it

>>725244058
ok retard

>>725243985
The only problem with Fate route is that it was never adapted into anime, and most anime only faggots even skipped Deen's anime (and rightfully so, it's trash).
Therefore, most people don't even know what Fate route is about. The good thing about it is that if someone's favorite route is Fate, you know they're not an anime only faggot and you can actually have a conversation with them.

>>725243573
Tokiomi is so dumb, he could've just stolen Kayneth's crest during the war and given it to Sakura.

>>725244018
Yeah me too anon, but in my opinion, it's better not even experience Fate if you're unable to read.

>>725244237
ok want a gold star or something?

>>725244058
that's it, smugfuck, you're getting kissed
I failed to find the webm so you'll have to imagine it

>>725244205
How would that have changed the fact that he can only pass on his magecraft to one of his daughters? He was retarded for trusting the bug rape man who is known to be an evil immortal, but he did so in order to ensure Sakura's talents wouldn't go to waste.

>>725241875
Luck is a based stat and I love games that include it.

>>725244374
>How would that have changed the fact that he can only pass on his magecraft to one of his daughters?
it would've let him pass on a different families magecraft to his other daughter, same outcome as what he thought he was doing, just with less bug rape.

>>725242092
Just read Strange Fake and never interact with the rest of the franchise.
It's worked well for me. I don't even know how a Grail War is supposed to work but I know it ain't like whatever I've read.

>>725242389
Fate/Zero was the only good thing to come out of the series.

>>725243383
Kiritsugu didn't have a reality marble, his magecraft was an advanced form of Bounded Field that only have some comparison to Reality Marble (which is the imprinting of the inner world upon Gaia's texture [also comparable to reality marble])

>Saber had never encountered any pushback against her ideals
Saber didn't treat Kingship as an ideal, she treated the act of being an impartial King as what is expected of the seat, and she already faced discontent during her time. Remember the quote by a Knight mentioned in the VN about the King not having a human heart?

>Kirei won the 4th HGW
>Kiritsugu won the 4th HGW
Kotomine didn't say who won the grail war, because it wasn't possible to win it in the first place. Just because Kiritsugu destroyed the corrupted grail didn't mean he won.

>Kiritsugu was watching Saber fight a giant kaiju everyone in the city could see on the water from the comfort of his boat. The boat isn't even hit by the excaliblast, it simply gets pushed to the shore by the waves as Saber shoots her blast off into the sky
Kiritsugu wasn't on the big boat. the LN literally stated he was watching from a lifeboat

further comment later on

>>725238975 (OP)
It's called luck stat

>>725242092
Watch Fate Zero then Fate Unlimited Blade Works by ufotable.
If you want to go further after that, read the VN, watch Fate Stay Night from DEEN, or watch the Heavens Feel movies.

>>725238975 (OP)
it sounds dumb but the rules of the attack say that to avoid dying to this attack all you need is high luck, this man's luck is superlow meanwhile the target had high luck + a skill that increases victory percentages as long as they are not 0%.

Lancer, the OG jobber of Fate

>>725244165
I honestly thought Ufotable would do the Fate route but they got super busy with Demon Slayer.

>>725244472
Magi do not concern themselves with such things.
Commence the bug rape!

>>725241250
He owns Noble Phantasms but he's not so much a "User" of them. Just like Archer can morph swords into nuke level arrows, it is so much more efficient for him to launch NPs as bombs that will strike really really hard instead of trying to use their abilities which will never be as strong as the actual users.

>>725245470
Only 4 to 6 more years to go for that mediocre shit to end!

>>725245470
The Fate route will never be adapted fully. Ufotable will instead move on to adapting the Tsukihime routes once they are bored of Demon Slayer

>>725245470
Never ever,

>>725243383
>>Kiritsugu couldn't recognize Shirou was using a reality marble while Rin could
1) Reality marble is the act of imprinting one's inner world upon reality. It is not about having an inner world because that is actually not that uncommon.
2) Kiritsugu basically lost most of his ability to use magecraft due to the grail curse so he can't properly teach it.
3) Kiritsugu knew about the cutthroat world of Mages, and thus didn't want Shirou to follow in his footsteps anyway

>Archer told everyone he was Gilgamesh
Pretty sure Gilgamesh didn't even say who is was due to his arrogance, he basically expressed his Kingship as self evident, he didn't even say the name of his noble phantasm, and the only time it seems to happen was using Ea within Iskander's Reality Marble when he have some measure of respect for him.

>Everyone easily figured out who Saber was
That pretty much didn't happen until Saber had to dispel Invisible Air in order to use Excalibur.

>>725245051
Fate/Zero is the reason why every other Fate has to be shit. It really feels like Nasu really didn't like how Zero completely catapulted the franchise's popularity since he had no hand in it because now, every time there's a new Fate written by another writer, it always has some massive problems and every time in later interviews, they reveal that those problems were ideas from Nasu that had to be integrated, shit like Sieg in Apocrypha and such.

Fucker even purposefully delayed the release of new Strange/Fake by making Enkidu part of the Babylon chapter of FGO, forcing the Strange/Fake writer to wait for its release to see how Nasu writes him in order to not have some dissonance in its writing only for FGO to reveal that Babylon's Enkidu wasn't Endiku so the Strange/Fake writer waited for nothing.

>>725238975 (OP)
Lancer is always a jobber, that's a worldbuilding rule in fate.

Gae Bolg was SO fucking cool and threatening in FSN and I'm never changing my mind.
God FSN was such a good VN. I need to replay it. Need to figure out how to get it for free on my Vita or buy a PSP to hack.

>>725245680
Rin learning to follow the way of the magi, very good

>>725244165
>even skipped Deen's anime (and rightfully so, it's trash)
Anata ga ita mori is still the best ED of the adaptations but yeah, it's the only salvageable part.

>>725246660
The Vita version of Realta Nua ruined the soundtrack. The added tracks in the PS2 version fit so much better.

>>725246660
https://alyinghood.github.io/fsnrnue-multiplatform/

As far as I know this is the only way and it was a buggy mess. Maybe a VNDS version works but these are all honestly a pain in the ass. Get a Steam Deck, anon.

>>725243383
>Kirei won the 4th HGW
>Kiritsugu won the 4th HGW
F/SN sure didn't say that.
>Kotomine: Ten years ago. I already told you how Kiritsugu and I fought for the Holy Grail.
----
>Kotomine: I still found the Holy Grail worthy, but Kiritsugu destroyed it, unable to accept its evil."
>"I need not remind you of the result. My Servant was showered with its tainted contents, and the mud that leaked from the Holy Grail burned the town and caused many deaths.

Illya even stated that there were never a winner:
>This isn't the time to be talking about something that can't succeed anyway."
>"C-Can't succeed? What are you basing that on?"
>"Hey now. I don't know why, but the Holy Grail War has never had a victor. That means there's something wrong with the ritual.
>Ilya is the first humanoid grail vessel
>Iri was a humanoid grail vessel before Ilya and there were others before
Anon, it was the destruction of the Lesser Grail in the third war that caused the Einzbern to infuse a homunculus with the properties of a grail.

>>725246903
The Deen Fate was a pretty good adaptation as long as you skip the weird Sakura side arc that Nasu forced them to insert. Just watch Caster's death in the VN on youtube then continue to the next episode

>>725247179
>as long as you skip the weird Sakura side arc that Nasu forced them to insert
So it seems like >>725246443 was true even before Fate/Zero.

>>725241789
>people will still post their dogshit opinions in threads

>>725243520
Eventually the series explains that it operates in the basis of multiple parallel lines, worlds and even universes. For what matters, the 3 storylines from F/SN are treated as canonical simultaneously when observed by other works from the franchise, all the relevant character developments happened and so on. Zero is handled as an event that is a prequel to F/SN but not exactly the one from our timeline, but the general events of it are still correct. Fast Forward to FGO and the first singularity is the Fuyuki War from the original scenario but with obvious differences, then you get to learn that FGO itself is a split timeline from a different previous war that still shares a common origin with the original work. This is repeated constantly among other works so those contradictions are handled internally as simple timeline slips.

>>725241713
>>725242125
>>725245683
Gilgamesh was using the innate properties of the weapons in the Fate route. But he cannot use the special techniques that are associated with the heroes that wielded the weapons.

Shirou however not only could download the information about that technique, it was also the case that when he successfully traces a Noble Phantasm, it also possess the 'memory' of the Noble Phantasm associated with its wielder, which means the weapon ACTUALLY DRAGS SHIROU ALONG FOR THE RIDE [as most apparently in the Fate route with Caliburn]
This however can easily tear apart Shirou's body by feats, so some manner of restraint is needed.


This is ALSO why Emiya prefer to use Kanshou and Bakuya as his weapon of choice, because those are Noble Phantasms with NO NATURAL WIELDERS, and thus have no relevant memory interference, which allows him to develop his own techniques with the weapon.
Ironically, Shirou was able to extract Emiya's technique with Kanshou and Bakuya in Heaven's Feel route.

>>725247351
Yes. Nasu has always tried to force other people who work on adaptations or spin-offs of his works to insert these weird ideas that he himself wouldn't even use when he writes.
The only time he didn't interfere with an adaptation/spin-off was the Tsukihime manga which was better than the VN

>>725247386
>no rebuttal
lmao cope weeb

>>725247502
>copy legendary weapons that had no known owners to imbue their techniques in them
>your past self copies the same weapons and gets the technique you (his future self) imbued in them after using them so long
that's silly and super cool

>>725247526
>u-um i have a shit opinion!!!
No one cares.

>>725247502
>Gilgamesh was using the innate properties of the weapons in the Fate route
Correct.
>But he cannot use the special techniques that are associated with the heroes that wielded the weapons
Gilgamesh was the original owner of all of the weapons in his GOB. There are no techniques from other heroes that he could use.
Emiya can use the techniques of former wielders of his weapons because of his ability to trace the weapons' memories. Even if Gilgamesh used someone else's swords he couldn't do this as he does not have that ability.

>>725247718
We don't know how much it is Shirou extracting the technique from Emiya's arm, and how much it is from his projection.

>>725247775
Anon, Gilgamesh not only only posseses all the prototype weapons (CCC reveals that his treasury automatically possess Humanity's inventions and ideas), he also posseses treasures he added to his treasure manually, including divine weapons of other Pantheon. [CCC even showcases Gilgamesh interested in adding Karna's Noble Phantasm to his treasury]

>>725247787
must have been a crazy experience, like imagine you've been working on something really hard for a long time and then you get something from your future self and suddenly you just 'get it', it all falls into place
except in this case it's how to fight and your body isn't quite up to the task

>>725247787
We do know that Shirou just has an affinity for them. We know he trains swordmanship with Saber but he just needs to see Archer do it a couple of times and he stars to move like him, no tracing or arm related. Saber points about this and he admits that his body just takes it naturally.

>>725238975 (OP)
Just another reason Tsukihime is cooler

Fatefags hate their own anime?

>>725241789
It was always good.

>>725238975 (OP)
*bounces boobily into thread*
Could Shirou have still won all three routes if he summoned Raikou?

>>725248315
The anime, yes

>>725248315
It depends on who you ask, the DEEN anime is generally faithful until it approaches the end and then adds a bunch of stuff here and there. So there's a lot of people that hate this one but there's also a lot of people that like how soulful it is or simply because this one made the franchise have a solid position with the otaku sphere for years. There's people that hate Zero mostly because other newfags keep saying to watch it first, because it has too many spoilers and because it conflicts with facts from the original novel. Then there's people that have a feud regarding which version of UBW is better, DEEN's movie or Ufotable's anime. And lastly there's people that hated how the HF's trilogy was handled in general. And that's only talking about the works strictily related to the core canon.

>>725248394
He would have died. Avalon carried him heavily in Fate and UBW as well as the beginning of HF.

>>725247946
Emiya's presence near Shirou also seems allow Shirou to gain Emiya's experience.
It sort of plays a part in Emiya vs Shirou in UBW, but that fight was more a clash of ideals, with Shirou's words cutting deep into Emiya about what he had suppressed or forgotten which ultimate ended with Emiya pretty much surrendering. (Hence Emiya getting more sluggish and feeling that Shirou's blow was heavier despite his experience telling otherwise)

>>725248315
Several.

Now if they're good or not. That's a whole another can of worms

>>725248394
Any servant summoned by Shirou will be inherently nerfed because he has shit Magic Circuits. He wins the war more because of his allies actions and his charisma to gather them than because of him own traits as a master.

>>725248548
Its been a long while since I touched the Fate IP, last time I did was probably around the time FGO was becoming a thing in nipland. I remember Zero and UBW being generally well-received, with the topmost opinion being that to read the VNs.

Fate/Stay Night is the king of "shit that sounds really cool but in practice it's not that cool".
>WOW AN UNDODGEABLE ATTACK *gets dodged and almost no one dies from it*
>WOW THE STRONGEST NOBLE PHANTASM THAT CAN DESTROY ANYTHING *loses to another noble phantasm*
>WOW AN UNDODGEABLE SKILL THAT CAN KILL EVERY SERVANT *kills no one*
>WOW THE STRONGEST SERVANT WITH INFINITE LIVES *jobs to a teenager with a single attack*
>WOW THE STRONGEST SERVANT KING OF KINGS WITH NO WEAKNESSES *jobs to a teenager with hacks*

>>725248689
Zero and UBW are good and are the best of the anime adaptations, people have been souring on them ever since the HF movies got kind of botched.

>>725238975 (OP)
>Nasu is a nigger
more news after the break

>>725248765
Its the reverse of Jojo where every situation is perfectly curated to make one niche-ass non-fatal subject completely lethal.

>>725248634
Shirou's capability as a Master was shit because he hardily know how to use magic circuits. He was dangerously using his nerves as a makeshift magic circuit.

Shirou have mediocre magic circuits quality, but actually have 27 of them, which is absolutely CRAZY for a guy with no apparent Mage family background.

>Fate/side material - Encyclopedia: Magic Circuits [Magecraft], p.073
Pseudo-nerves within the body of a magus.
Magic circuits are responsible for converting life force into magical energy, and for connecting to the underlying grand sorcery formula.
Because the number of magic circuits a person has is fixed at birth, magi lineages do what they can to improve themselves and create an heir with even one more magic circuit.
Once the magic circuits have been opened for the first time, the practitioner can switch them on and off at will.
Each practitioner visualizes the flipping of this switch in their own particular way. For Shirou, the image is that of a gun's firing hammer, while for Rin it is stabbing a heart with a knife.
This image tends to be related to how the circuits were opened for the very first time, so there even those who can only open their circuits through sexual arousal or self-harm.
By the way, Shirou's number of magic circuits is an unexpectedly high 27.
Rin, on the other hand, has 40 main circuits, while her sub-circuits are 30 each.

>>725248689
There was a lot of hype behind Zero and UBW. People really loved Ufotable's Kara No Kyoukai adaptation and Deen's UBW movie was received mostly negatively for the mediocre animation for a big budget movie. There were also a lot of newfags that came in after Zero.
>>725248769
People started souring on them before the HF movies came out. The HF movies just led people to dislike the studio Ufotable.

>>725248689
The anime adaptations have all been generally well received, that is correct. FZero and UBW were stellar anime shows in their respective airing dates, even HFs was a mostly well received movie. But despite that they still have haters.

>>725249009
VNfags will never be happy with a Fate Stay Night adaptation. The UBW anime was as good as it's ever going to get and did Shirou solidly enough. You don't need ten years monologuing to get the point across.

Is fate stay/night worth reading if i liked mahoyo

>>725248765
Nasu love to make a rule just so it can be either broken or circumvented later on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24ALk2BeYM8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJTcJ7rGIwI

>>725249284
No. Read Kara No Kyoukai or the original Tsukihime.

>>725249258
most of the VNs filler dialogue is ultra elaborated food making process

>>725249284
Not at all Fate goes for a completely different feeling

>>725247502
He didn't extract them from the weapons in HF, silly. He had a whole arm belonging to Archer attached to his body and that's what he used to dig up memories.

>>725249371
Is there stuff wrong with the remake? Did they change alot of stuff?

>>725248689
Ubw was the last good Fate show and arguably last good fate medium. After that it just went downhill. Even HF movie didn't really capture the essence of the vn, with them trying too hard to show "cool moments" rather than being faithful to the ambience and storytelling. The Shirou vs Kotomine fistfighting was rather disappointing.

>>725249258
Getting points across is not spamming action scene nonstop to appease zoomer's ADHD.

>>725249506
>Removed a character and replaced him with an extremely generic fantasy designed character
>Cut out Ciel's negative attributes and put them all into another newly created character (who then ends up being more interesting than remake Ciel)
>Change the second half of Arc's route
>Completely change Ciel's route
>Add in even more over the top action
>Toss out the atmosphere of the original
>"Modernize" the designs of characters and change the year the story takes place
>Make the remake into an episodic release, only release the first 2 routes so far

Shouldn't have had E rank Luck get fucked Lancer.

>>725249506
It came out in 2025 the year of censorship and TM already proved themselves willing to bend over by censoring their remakes such as changing Ushi's design in melty blood remake. What do you think?

Just use the ultimate patch version on vn and ignore steamtards if you want best experience.

>every servant gets bullshit cheating abilities that take up entire pages on the wiki
>Saber gets... an invisible sword and a laser

Why would you summon her?

>>725250059
Sword strong

I don't like remakes

>>725239824
This explanation would have more weight if Lancer were capable of stabbing anyone but himself in the heart in canon

>>725249009
>>725248548
The Fate/Zero LN pretty much doesn't conflict with the VN. The Ufotable adaptation is the one that causes problems because the adaptation misrepresent the mechanics and have issues with expressing the characterizations (which was mostly done in third person narration especially for the introverted characters).

That issue continued on with the UBW and HF adaptations.

>>725248548
>>725250240
Gae Bolg isn't about rewinding time, its about reversing causality so the fact of the spear piercing the chest was already written into reality, thus the world will bend over backward to make that event happen no matter how nonsensical it would appear, like even if Lancer thrusted backward, reality would make the spear appear to bend in impossible way to fit the written reality on the first pass, thrusting the spear at all is just a formality

Sasaki executing a complete Tsubame Gaeshi version against Saber in their first encounter. When in the VN he was only able to execute the incomplete Tsubame Gaeshi due to not having enough room for the proper stance/footwork.
The complete Tsubame Gaeshi is supposed to be undefendable due to attacking multiple points at once and the slash angle acts as a cage.

Rin's fight against Caster was ruined because Rin relies on the element of surprise. She was suppose lull Caster into a game of pure magic battle while she edges closer and closer to her, and at the critical moment (like using the last magical clash as a cover) IMMEDIATELY charge in with her magically reinforced martial arts (So Caster wouldn't have prepared a physical barrier beforehand)

Archer shouldn't even bother dodging Kuzuki's attack since Kuzuki no longer have his buffs, hence his attack would be completely fucking useless against a servant.

Archer vs Shirou isn't even about actual combat strength, the actual battle was a battle of ideals, in which Shirou was only able to get a free critical hit due to the effects of his words on Archer. And Archer in that fight was more concerned with taking out his anger on Shirou and beating the ideals out of him.

(to be continued)

>>725250308
You know how VN Gil was absolutely fucked once UBW spawned because it'd counter anything GoB tried and have a higher volumes of firing while Shirou had him unbalanced in melee combat the whole time?
In the anime, Gil was usually at a distance and simply refused to pull the Ea. Then he finally thought, eh, maybe, he left himself wide open. And timing out UBW was apparently an option

You know how VN Heracles is able to fights Saber even with graveyard terrain disadvantage and then deflects Caladbolg from Archer?
Anime Saber kills him once and then Caladbolg kills him again. Especially when Hammer of the Wind King should be rank C and thus unable to pass the God Hand check.

etc, etc, etc...

>>725250059
because all of those bullshit cheating abilities fall before the might of said laser. You need a BS servant of like, Karna's level to stand a chance against Seiba.

>>725250059
She also gets free invincibility as long as she has avalon, which is what was used to summon her

>>725239824
>well actually, your guaranteed kill weapon means nothing when faced with my AUTHOR FIAT stat
People discuss this series. Grown-ass adult people. They sit around and talk about how cool it was when Shiro broke the unbreakable thing and then dodged the undodgable thing, because his stats were good or something. You people are just the last generation of the same types of subhumans that watched soo leveling.

>>725250240
Funny how F/HA have so many references the F/Z LN which was still being conceptualized at the time.

>no nipples in the original
>no nipples in the remake
Why did Roa remove Ciel's nipples?

>>725249506
The original Tsukihime is just packed with too much soul, then you can read the remake if you wish as it fits into the modernized take of Nasu's original ideas there's plenty of changes but OG tsukihime is the basis for most of the moden shit anyways

>>725250651
Well even F/SN have indirect reference to specific aspect of F/Z not highlighted

>>725250059
Saber's raw skill set is enough to take on most of the bullshit, she doesn't need any special technique when her own normal moves are just super strong. When her sword is able to take 7 lives out of a thing with a single strike, you know shit's the real deal.

>>725250651
>>725250716
>>725250830
>>725250897
>F/SN & F/HA say something
>F/Z expands on it
>"Clearly this means F/SN & F/HA were referencing F/Z!"
Retard

>>725242092
1) Read the VN. It has voice acting and music and shit, it's pretty high production value for a 2003 indie project.
2) If reading the VN is not an option, you can watch one of the anime adaptations. DEEN's Fate/Stay Night (2006) was the first one and (loosely) adapts the VN's first route, where Shirou gets with the blonde knight girl. It's charming and SOULful but also old and janky.
Ufotable's "Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works" (2014) is the one that most people nowadays will have watched. It adapts the second route of the VN (it's a separate story, you don't really need to worry about not having context of the first route to watch the anime) where Shirou gets with his tsundere twintail classmate, though it's more action-focused and less romance compared to the other routes.
If you watch the anime and enjoyed it, you should read the VN, it's the complete and vastly superior version of the story.
Anyone telling you to watch Fate/Zero should kill themselves, it is overproduced edgy misery porn shit not even remotely close to the shonen/romance vibe you're looking for.

>>725243760
>Protection from arrows ceases working because bullshit
They're swords, not arrows.

>>725250191
see the second video: >>725249351

>>725243985
It's not bad at all. It's an excellent base that the rest of the story follows from, and has some outstanding moments in its own right.
Its only problem is getting overshadowed by the mountains built on it, because it's hard to look back 40 hours later when you're on day 15 of Heaven's Feel going "holy fucking shit this is the craziest thing I've ever read"

>>725243760
Lancer fought Gilgamesh for 12 hours.
DEEN Anime showcases Gilgamesh using Enkidu [anti-divinity attribute] chain to immobilize him

>>725242092
Start with the vn but do not be a bitch and read the non-eroge. The shitty sex scenes are integral to the story and plot.

>>725248765
What you're failing to understand here is that all of that shit is cool as fuck and they sell the hell out of it ever time

>>725247351
Nasu had some anime original storyline cooked up for DEEN

>Shielder was a genderbent Galahad (or a human channeling Galahad's spirit?) nicknamed Tachie, with a silent pacifistic yet no-nonsense personality
>her old master was named Earnest Gravehill, who had a Shiki-esque personality
>Shielder has a grudge against Saber, and an unfounded one against Shirou for surviving the Fuyuki disaster
>Sakura's past was retconned by having Zouken die in the 4th war, and Shinji is the real Matou heir and Rider's real master
>Shinji asks Shirou to protect Sakura for him, but then Caster makes an agreement with Shinji to have Sakura stay with Shirou so she can become Saber's master
>Sakura joins Saber and Rin as Shirou's ally, not knowing she's under Caster's control
>various aspects from different routes are included, such as Saber vs Berserker and Kuzuki being revealed as Caster's master
>Ilya is suspicious of Sakura for being a Matou after Berserker is defeated and she joins Shirou, saying it doesn't matter if she never received training in magic as long as she has magical circuits
>while they're discussing how to deal with Caster, Sakura asks to talk with Saber in private, then gets controlled into using Rule Breaker on Saber
>Shielder is on Caster's side
>Saber vs Shielder, Shirou vs Caster
>Shirou defeats Caster, but it was a fake, and the real one goes after Rin
>BONDAGE SAKURA (Nasu's explanation for why he came up with it is that Caster likes dressing little girls in frilly dresses and girls with big breasts in villainess-esque outfits)
>Rin saves Sakura from becoming Caster's sacrifice, but then Caster attacks her
>Archer appears and saves her like he does in UBW, having survived the Berserker fight
>Archer defeats Caster like Shirou defeats Saber in Sparks Liner High
>Saber vs Shielder gets interrupted by Gilgamesh appearing and killing Shielder anti-climactically
>rest of the story follows the Fate route

>>725243520
Because Nasu doesn't give a shit.

How well would Ciel do as a Master?

Lancer vs Rider (Sakura Master)

Who wins?

Why was Sasaki Kojiro classified as an Assassin?

Did Fate fights peak with Salter vs Rider?

>>725252956
Well, he did want a duel to the death with Musashi, so you could see him as an assassin in a way.

>>725253087
No.

>>725253087
>S*lter
>>>/r/eddit

>>725252956
He's not a true heroic spirit, he's a phantom summoned to play the role of Sasaki Koujiro simply he's the one capable of Tsubame Gaeshi.

>>725252804
According to Nasu he can match her speed and neutralize her Mystic Eyes with his rune magic. He has a significant advantage as a hero who's known for killing monsters like her.

>>725252956
His entire legend is defined by mastering one killing technique.

>>725250623
Growing up is realizing that /a/ was always enormously hypocritical for having a hateboner for Naruto while jacking off slop like Fate and DBZ.

>>725252664
That sounds incredibly stupid. Takeuchi needs to beat Nasu more for having such dumb ideas

slightly off topic but is fgo really gonna end this year? I just can't imagine it

>>725250623
>People discuss this series. Grown-ass adult people.
And we've been doing it on this website for longer than you've been alive.

>>725250059
Saber is nerfed due lacking avalon and in the case of F/SN Shirou being a trash master, SWORD STRONG can generally power through 99% of Servants Bullshit so you don't really need more.

Keep in mind that the majority of shit deemed "better" then her is normally Unsummonable unless extreme bullshit happens.

Or to put it like this, Fate is a Setting where "Situations" matter, and Saber is a Servant strong enough to overcome "Situations", her magic resistance lets her ignore Magic bullshit, and luckfagging lets her ignore a lot of other bullshit on technicalities.

>>725253753
You'll know it's ending when they announce a sequel

>>725253629
Eh, Naruto was the gateway anime of its time and the hate was to keep the newfags away. With time and newer shittier gateway anime, Naruto earned its place as an ok anime.

>>725253820
>and luckfagging lets her ignore a lot of other bullshit on technicalities
Except mud. Not even the king of heroes could beat mud. Is there any hero stronger than mud?

>>725254023
ACK

>>725250059
To be fair, it's an incredibly bullshit sword that has only been made stronger retroactively.

>>725250059
Saber has an even more bullshit cheat skill called "Instinct" that lets her bullshit her way through other people's cheat skills because she's just THAT good at swords
"Oh you devoted your life to mastering a sword technique and sworded so hard that you're doing Second Magic bullshit and literally attacking in three spaces at once through sheer force of will? I saw it coming and blocked it anyway lmao"

Does Shinji with Rider have any chance of winning fate and ubw?

>>725241198
This was debunked.

>>725254214
No. Rider herself is an incredibly mediocre servant and shinji is ass in general.

>>725254214
Sure, why not? Nasu is such an inconsistent hack that a homeless man with no arms, legs, eyes, and hearing could win a grail war as long as Nasu's the one writing

>>725254314
>Rider herself is an incredibly mediocre
Kicked Salter's ass

>>725254353
That homeless man was actually a chinese robot vampire from space and he summoned a shoggoth(that is actually a fragment of a Type). Of course he solos.

>>725250059
Saber is among the top warriors of all mankind, simple as

>>725254214
No. Bad Compatibility, Bad Tactics, Pretty sure the Psuedo-Contract made Rider weaker, absolutely set up to piss off Caster who would easily demolish the both of them or just RULE BREAKER Rider (who would probably kill Shinji for how he treated Sakura) and by default they are at a disadvantage due less command spells.

Then again, their chances are so bad that maybe the Therorem of Narrative Causality kicks in.

>>725254593
Saber would get nodiffed by a rank and file roman soldier

>>725254214
No. Shinji is a worse master than Shirou. Shinji has no magic crest and no idea on how to activate his innate magical circuits without one. Even if he could, he barely has any natural magic circuits. He isn't as athletic as Shirou either and wouldn't be able to fight even if he was magically enhanced. He relied entirely on Rider with Sakura as a magic battery.
Rider is not enough to win the war even at her strongest, and Sakura before absorbing any servants/innocent civilians cannot fuel Rider long enough due to the worms constantly draining her.

The only way Shinji could win is if he immediately came out and allied himself with Shirou which would give him the chance to also ally with Rin who has a soft spot for Shirou. If he went that route though, he would have to concede getting a wish as Shirou will always destroy the grail as soon as he finds out the truth.

>>725254689
Nero please.

>>725254214
There is no scenario where Gilgamesh and Kirei don't just kill him when they stop fucking around

>>725254314
>Rider herself is an incredibly mediocre servant
My fucking ass, she's a big fish in the fucking shark pit that is the 5th HGW where everybody is a top-tier Servant.
Her Mystic Eyes are an instant-kill against jobber Servants who aren't roiding out on mana and Bellerophon is an exactly one level below Excalibur-tier nuke. She's one of the only Servants who could realistically minimal-bullshit kill Berserker.

>>725254905
She sucks ass. She has no feats.

>>725254905
>no scenario where Gilgamesh and Kirei don't just kill him
There are plenty of scenarios where that would happen, Anon. The combination of Nasu's writing and KING OF JOBBERS is so powerful that literally anything could happen except Gay Bulge killing someone or Sacchin getting a route

>>725254689
mediterranean cope

>Cu vs Heracles
>Second fight, Cu no longer has to run away

Who's winning this?

>>725254474
with Shinji death and back as Sakura's servant

>>725255179
Cu literally cannot win.

>>725248315
Uminekofags also hate their anime. It's not that weird.

>>725254905
Rider isn't even her best class. The eyes get shutdown by basically any servant(instant kill shit is a total meme unless you are kang hassan level and can straight up impose the concept of death on things that otherwise lack it). Basically everything has enough luck or magic resistance or some other bullshit to block it. Blood Fort is basically completely worthless too. So all she really has is Bellerophon, which is just your bog standard nuke that most servants have.

>>725255005
>She has no feats.
Bellerophon + Shirou Rho Aius support > Infinite Mana roided out bullshit Excalibur Morgan
Cybele hard counters Archer (guy who beats literally every other Servant in the war except Lancer)

>>725255179
Nasu says he has "some chance" using runes to augment Gae Bolg which otherwise can't overcome God Hand, but if they actually followed the rules (lol) he should only be able to kill him twice, maybe a few more times if he can pull magic nukes out of his ass like Rin
It's basically the Archer vs Berserker matchup but worse because Lancer doesn't have endless Broken Phantasms/UBW as a win condition

>>725254905
>There is no scenario where Gilgamesh and Kirei don't just kill him when they stop fucking around
The only thing that gets them to stop playing in the kid room of the church basement is if someone finds out about their secret or if one of them dies. Gilgamesh doesn't really care about the grail war and just wants to help his newfound friend have some fun messing with people while Kirei will mess with everyone in the shadows until his tools to do so get taken away.
>My fucking ass
Compared to the other servants of the 5th HGW she is. She could maybe kill Archer or Assassin, but not any of the others.
Archer knows about her eyes, but is too autistic to use UBW until he can get a chance to use it on Shirou. Assassin is stuck on the stairs and would have no way to defend against Bellerophon.
Lancer can counter her eyes with his runes and can Gae Bolg her. Berserker can bumrush her. Caster could just fly up in the air and spam spells at her, especially effective if the battle takes place in the temple. Saber dominates the fight and can excaliblast anytime Rider tries to Bellerophon.

>>725255179
Herc is the second strongest servant in the fuyuki war(and would be the strongest if he wasn't stuck as a zerker). Noone there short of Saber can take him in a straight mano a mano fight and lancer doesn't have enough tricks in his bag to cheat out a win otherwise. Archer or Gil or fucking Shirou can cheat out wins given the right set up, but lancer will always lose.

>>725255179
If a teenage faggot with no special lineage can kill Heracles, demigod hero and victor of 7 impossible trials then fellow demigod Cu might as well win too.

Could Archer carry out his threat here?

>>725255347
Could he win if the deck wasn't so stacked against him like in the VN?

>>725255493
heracles nerfed by the shadow
though Cu is nerfed by Kirei's spell too

>>725255493
Caster Cu probably would stand a chance but lancer Cu is ass.

>>725255347
VN and Deen Ilya can just be a girl whose growth was stunted
Ufotable Ilya is too small and has an even more childlike face

>>725255514
Fate writing is so all over the place that fucking Hassan could win grail war 5 if someone wanted him to

Prisma Illya is best Illya.

>>725238975 (OP)
I still have no idea why the fuck heroes even exist and why the universe saw fit to archive them.
All it does if just introduce more violence and conflict.

It makes no sense.

>>725255609
Sniping masters isn't the same as winning in a fight against servants. Anyone can win if you just snipe all the masters and somehow avoid getting ganked by the other servants in the process.

>>725255510
In the VN? No. He did not have enough mana to use UBW anymore.
In the Ufotable adaptation where he had seemingly infinite mana? Yes.

>the writing says that it's basically impossible for a human to fight a servant
>meanwhile almost every servant ends up jobbing to a bunch of high schoolers or a teacher
What kind of retard wrote this?

>>725255642
That's wrong but Prillya is still a good girl, there's no need to choose one over the other.

>>725255347
To be fair, she wasn't really playing to win, she was playing to kill Shirou and then found out he was a retard.

>>725255774
The first statement only applies to normal humans, not SWORDS.

>>725255729
The PS2 version of Realta Nua was so much better than the Vita version. It had a better OP and a better soundtrack.
It's a shame they based the PC release off of the phone release which itself was just a port of the Vita version.

>>725255774
The same monster who wrote this

>>725255662
if there is a God and he favors mankind it makes sense to hail its best champions escaping from samsara

>>725255802
it's not proper to train kendo with bloomers, Illya....

Write a scenario where Caster wins the 5th war

>>725253629
DBZ has its issues but it's nowhere near the level of sheer retardation found in Fate

>>725256012
summoning Sasaki as a saber

>>725255774
>Kuzuki, with a buff from Caster
>Shirou, with either Avalon hack or UBW hack

Who else?

>>725255774
Shiro is definitely NOT a normal human anon. He's an exception to the rule

>>725241104
I wonder if Nasu made Soujuurou more retarded to compensate for the fact that he and Souichirou are basically the same character

>>725256012
There is an ending where she wins. It's the one where Shirou gets turned into a noble phantasm manufacturing plant.

>>725255347
Zero wins, zero routes, zero babies. I wanna fuck Illya and through the luck stat of my dick turn her into a real girl.

>>725256063
>the level of sheer retardation found in Fate

Examples?

>>725256012
Local high school teacher beats down a bunch of jobbers. He punches Heracles twice and it counts as 10 deaths because each of his fists are composed of 5 different fingers.

>>725251507
wtf is up with Hisui's right hand

>>725256012
She successfully hijacks Saber and turns Shirou into a sword wand, that's a better win condition than most of them have

>>725239112
100 accurate moves could miss but interesting enough swift didn't miss because it skipped the hit chance formula. So undodgeable attacks didn't miss iirc.

Nasu peaked with CCC

>>725256170
SOUL

>>725256012
le secret assassin teacher assassinates his magi students at day 1

>>725256083
He changed Soujuurou to be more passive because he thought that Koyama's version of his design couldn't be the wild man that he originally wrote him as. We would have gotten a version of Mahoyo closer to the original if Takeuchi wasn't too busy with other projects to work on it

>>725251507
>Takeuchi wanted to make manga but Nasu wrote too many pages to adapt, hence the VN format
>"If we're going to make this into a manga, you can't make it long." And then he brings me 100 pages. I was just like "There's... no way we can do this."
>Nasu played 「ToHeart」 (*3) and 「ONE」 (*4). Then I played 「Kanon」 on Takeuchi's PC.
>Tsukihime was THE breakout dojin game hit, the biggest until Higurashi.
>Each route was planned to have 30 days, but was later changed to 10 days because Takeuchi said "Who would want to sit through 30 days?"
>Shiki was almost called Tachie. Roa's name came from a draft of Angel Notes.
>True Ancestor Princess Arc is based on the cold, princess-like Arcueid that was later changed to cheerful vampire, and because it would overlap with Akiha.
>Ciel was created as an antagonist on the church side who could face Arc.
>There was an entire day that was scrapped from the Akiha route. Something like Arihiko getting into a fight with Shiki.
>Sacchin (Yumizuka Satsuki) is based on Akari from 「Hikaru no Go」
>Hisui and Kohaku were going to be named Madoka and Tomoe.

>>725256069
Rin beats Caster
Kirei beats true assassin

What was your reaction to True Assassin?

>>725256007
Wrong. It's not just proper it's mandatory.

>>725242092
you need to READ stay night no other option

>>725256012
Castor mindbreaks seibah and then seibah wins it for her. Easy.

>>725256379
Was years ago since i first read it, but i think was something like "Neat! i wonder what gonna happen!" and then disappointment.

>>725256392
she should go topless like her fatheru

>>725256428
Someone summons a high school teacher, Saber loses and Caster crashes out

>>725238975 (OP)
Gilgamesh acts as serious about the 5th Holy Grail War as he was taking things in Babylonia...how screwed is everyone?

>>725256306
Imagine if Nasu and Takeuchi went back to Mahoyo in ~2005 or so and it was an eroge. Imagine the Alice h-scenes

>>725256379
you don't negotiate with terrorists

>>725256513
You mean the 4th Holy Grail War. He would have completely soloed it if Tokiomi didn't use a Command Spell

>>725256379
While people find the first days of HF route boring for me it was thick with an opressive atmosphere and the reveal of True Assassin was great.

>>725256379
Why does everything Ufotable did after Fate/Zero look so much worse?
I fucking hate Zero but at least it looked good, why the fuck is his nose like that

>>725256321
>Nasu didn't have a job and lived at Takeuchi's apartment
>Takeuchi had to work multiple jobs to support the two of them
>Meanwhile Nasu was bumming around, playing porn games on Takeuchi's computer
How did Nasu do it?

>>725256520
>>725256306
What is the appeal of Mahoyo? It seems like a proto-FSN

>>725255662
the collective human spirit, Alaya, makes them ascend by the sheer power of faith and awe their legends produced
sometimes even if the legend wasn't real

>>725256593
If Tokiomi didn't interrupt Gilgamesh fighting Lancelot, then he'd have won the war then and there. Tokiomi was a retard.

>Make your villain such a massively OP no limits mary sue that he has to temporarily turn into a complete retard in order to lose
That's bad writing

>>725256321
It would be cool to see a fully fleshed out version of the early drafts of Tsukihime. It might not be as good as the real thing, but it could at least be interesting

>>725256513
It ends in 1 day. Pretty sure he would just Alpha Strike and flatten Fuyuki immediately, killing the Masters regardless of their servants Power Level if he took it as "A Beast is manifesting/about to manifest" serious.

It's ironic that these so-called Heroes who are supposed to be Humanity's greatest defenders are the biggest threats to humanity than anything else in the universe, even aliens.

If God is real, then he's a sick bastard.

>>725256632
being true to his Origin

>>725256678
What's crazy is he's actually really charismatic and fine in Fate/Zero, Fate/Babylonia, Fate CCC...basically every other series besides FSN.

>>725256520
That would be very improper
>>725256641
How is it a proto-FSN? It's closer to Tsukihime or KnK in atmosphere.

has there ever been a Grail War played straight?

or would that be extremely boring?

>>725256678
It will never stop being funny how people always come into Fate threads to seethe about how "establishing expectations" and "character flaws" are "bad writing"

>>725256790
no

>>725256737
I bet he was corrupted when he bathed in the mud.

>>725249351
And that's why it's great, because there's always a detailed explanation for all the bullshit cheats

>Saber surviving Assassins technique because instinct
>but Saber also falling to Kuzuki's technique because instinct doesn't matter anymore
>Illya becoming a literal retard who just stands behind Herc the whole and forces him to keep defending her so he can get killed by Gil
>Medea becoming a literal retard who fights a retarded duel with Rin when it isn't in her personality to do so, doesn't make any backup plans and doesn't have any of the 1000 spells active that could prevent her getting pummeled by Rin
>Kojirou losing from a fucking bend in his sword when it was established that Servant's equipment can repair themselves and his weapon isn't even a noble phantasm
>Gilgamesh becoming a literal retard and the 1000 asspulls needed for Shirou to fight on par with him, which still ignores how efficiently he trashed BOTH Saber and Shirou in their first meeting in the Fate route, but all of a sudden he is an incompetent nigger than only fire stuff

Defend this, UBW niggers

>>725256723
>The greatest threat to humanity is humans
Really makes you think

>>725256678
His defeat in the Fate route made sense. He lost because Saber had invincibility from Avalon. In UBW he lost because he was too arrogant to immediately use Ea. In HF he lost because he decided to mercy kill Sakura after she already absorbed enough servants and people in order to kill him (though she only managed that by playing dead and surprise attacking him)

>>725256723
Fuck heroes

>>725256858
Heaven Chads.... I kneel....

All this shows is Fate Route is the only half decent route.

Was Zero better written than stay night?

>>725257045
Much better. Uro is just a better writer in general.

>>725257045
no

FSN seriously disappointed me, I got through Fate and UBW but I can't even be bothered to read HF at this point. Every other Nasu vn I've read managed to grab me and keep me interested for the whole ride, but not FSN.

>>725257084
>FSN seriously disappointed me, I got through Fate and UBW but I can't even be bothered to read HF at this point. Every other Nasu vn I've read managed to grab me and keep me interested for the whole ride, but not FSN.

What didn't you like?

>>725257084
What did you like about other Nasu VN's? And what did FSN do that turn you off so hard?

>>725257103
Not enough rape

>>725257045
it could be if Uro didn't go for his misery porn

Why would King Arthur make this face?

What did Archer use to take 6 lives off of Berserker in the VN?

>>725257168
Because her sheath made her miso soup for breakfast

>>725257205
his bone

you ever wonder if there are people in the Fate universe who have witnessed the catastrophic damage that Heroes/Servants have done to Earth,
and have now made it their mission to destroy all historical artifacts/lore related to heroes.
I mean just rewriting history books and demolishing museums/artifacts and clamping down on superstition and myths.

Essentially starving these Heroes/Servants to death so that the Grail Wars will be over.

>>725257205
Nasu has stated that he didn't use UBW, so he just had 6 A rank noble phantasms that he refused to use in any of the other routes because he wanted to play the role of the cool mysterious guy in front of his old high school crush after he got sent back in time

>>725256341
Rin got lucky because Medea wasn't expecting a modern mage to give up on magic and beat the shit out of her.

Kirei survived Hassan's NP because of bullshit.

>>725256790
Somebody winning the Fuyuki HGW (in a timeline where that's even possible) is part of the premise of FGO, from what I remember
I think I heard someone is actually able to claim the Grail in Apocrypha, not that I would know because I've never touched that shit
And if you think about it Illya technically wins and is able to make a miracle happen in Heaven's Feel
It's not an interesting scenario in itself, battle royales never are, it's always about the drama, action and intrigue more than the "goal"

>>725257045
Absolutely fucking not

>>725257067
Kill yourself

>>725257270
>because he wanted to play the role of the cool mysterious guy in front of his old high school crush after he got sent back in time
worth it

>>725257281
Kirei survived Hassan's NP because he didn't have a heart. Kirei's internals were replaced with grail mud. This is also why he can only ever be satisfied by eating MAPO TOFU

soul OVERLOAD

>>725256902
And shirou didn't actually beat him in UBW. He cut his arm off but ran out of mana before the killing blow. He got saved by the grail being destroyed and an assist from Emiya.

>>725257205
penis

>>725257260
normies are oblivious to magic and the ones involved in battle die
magicians worldwide don't take the grail wars seriously because they're retarded

Actually the most memorable part of FSN is DEEN's Archer vs Berserker.

>EMIYA Kenji Kawai Mix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfx8-c63u0Q

>>725257281
>>725256341
Hassan's technique is about ripping one's heart
Kirei lost his heart after Kiritsugu shot him
matchup poetry

>>725242827
Its a curse. Curses are karma and enforced fates. Godhand and Gae Bolg and cursed arms zabaniya and gandr and Angry Manjews np of you feel all the pain of the damage you did to me are all curses of different levels. You can defend against curses by avoiding them with anti curse items and substitutes and shields, or by having supernatural amazing Luck (ability to overthrow and overcome fate and absolute outcomes) heroes all have amazing luck because they're miracles but you still instant die to gae bolg if you don't have like top tier luck.

Even though it missed it did enough damage to cripple and take down saber. Its an instant kill if it hits the heart as it destroys your heart and further shreds your entire body with growing thorns.

Nasu mentions that it could one shot dead apostle ancestors who can raw tank Excalibur to the face and survive.

Karma is something Nasu works with heavily for every work he does and in the mechanics of how things work. Even servant summoning with catalysts is using connections of karma.

>>725241250
GIRUGAMESH!

>>725257597
>Karma is something Nasu works with heavily for every work he does

examples?

>>725256829
I'm pretty sure its clearly established that the mud would have driven most servants completely insane and is the reason Gil wants to do a little genocide.

>>725257313
Apocrypha's Grail is untainted but the war turned into 7 vs 7 big team slayer and one side only has one master

>>725257650
I think he gave an example in the next sentence

>>725243760
Pfa worked it's ass off. Nasu mentions cu fought gil for 12 fucking hours straight and did big damage to the gin-pika. The vn also mentions that gil immediately pulled out a thousand fucking NPs against Cu too.

>>725257260
Probably not, would get memory erased by some Mage and they wouldn't be able to do shit cause the Grail Rituals are basically hijacking the Planets Immune system (More going on with that with the Alaya and Gaia stuff of course, but you get the point.)

Mages are Wizards and Wizards don't give a fuck by default.

At "best" they'd just accidentally Shanghai themselves into becoming the new "Heroes", probably as an Avenger cause it'd be a sort of "hating humanity because of love" if you go on that sort of crusade.

>>725257572
SOVL NVKE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WUWTLHnH88

>>725257572
Why didn't Archer just tell Ilya that he is Shirou

>>725257270
God he's so fucking cool.

>>725257437
Saber is so tiny

i liked deen ubw for what it was

>>725257814
She would have killed him regardless so there is no point telling her something she will learn once she absorbs his spirit.

>>725256678
Anon, his arrogance is his worst enemy. He even deliberately seals his own Clairvoyance that lets him see the future (his kid form uses it because that version is FAR FAR more level headed, and even then he is somewhat reluctant)

>>725257713
Why?

>>725257437
He really gave up with the outfits for Medusa and Cu

>>725255774
Kuzuki literally can't do anything to Emiya without Medea's buff, because non-magical attack doesn't work against Servants

>>725257572
It was cooler in my head

>>725257260
the hero system is literally a natural part of the universe.

that's like saying we should pollute earth to flip off mother nature because tornados/earthquakes happen.

>>725257437
Was seiba always a midget?

>>725258078
>that's like saying we should pollute earth to flip off mother nature because tornados/earthquakes happen.
Can you provide an argument for why we shouldn't do this?

what would happen if someone wished for all Heroes and Grail Wars to stop existing?

>>725258105
growth stopped after she pulled caliburn as a teen

>>725258105
Yeah because the sacred swords stopped her aging at like 14.

>>725258021
God I fucking hate Ufotable, fucking 5 second webm is enough to completely violate the spirit of the scene they're adapting for actionized bullshit

>>725258105
Yes. Her growth was stunted after pulling out Caliburn due to Avalon giving her immortality when she was in her early teens (I think she was 14-15). Most of the other heroes in the 5th HGW aside from Heracles aren't even that tall. She is just a very short woman

>>725258134
you could go back in time to stop and nuke the 3 families from designing the first war but the Throne of Heroes will still exist

>>725257437
WOAH look at that GIANT FREAK Medusa. Have you ever seen a woman so DISGUSTINGLY TALL

Takeuchi: When I was designing Lancer's outfit, I asked Nasu about his concept and thought a bodysuit would go well with his character.

Nasu: Yeah, I think I asked for a bodysuit reminiscent of "Vampire Hunter D".

Takeuchi: I took that direction and ran with it. The final design does have a touch of sci-fi flavour to it, but my initial drafts were even more sci-fi.

Nasu: We had to tone down that sci-fi aspect to make him fit in better with the other characters. We couldn't have "Space Lancer 2004" running around.(laughs) Now that I think about it, Lancer's not the only blue character.

Takeuchi: Yeah, Saber's blue too... Why did we make Lancer blue, then?

Nasu: Blue's really the only colour that suits his concept, don't you think?

Takeuchi: Come to think about it, I've never seen a non-blue variation of Lancer. I guess it was also because he was clearly positioned as Archer's rival.

>>725243383
>muh boat

>>725257103
I find it a bit hard to express. I guess my problem was just feeling like nothing important was elaborated on or explored enough. Prepare for a wall of text composed of random thoughts. Saber is fine, but I didn't really care about her backstory or find her compelling. The Fate route also felt like it just all came together at once rather than Shirou and Saber falling in love gradually. I liked Rin a lot, but I felt like her route did nothing for her, UBW is focused almost entirely on Shirou and Archer's relationship and I don't really know why I should like Rin any more than any other tsundere with nice legs. Shirou's whole autistic wannabe hero thing is somewhat compelling, but it felt like every time it gets brought up it's the same thing:
>Other character: Shirou you should jump in front of a train to save a fly or whatever retarded thing you did this time
>Shirou: Sorry I just really do not give a shit about my own life and I wanna save people
>Flashback to the fire
>Shirou says "yeah it was so amazing that my Dad saved me, I want to be just like him that's why I'm like this"
>repeat
Caster and Souichirou's relationship should have been explored more. Saber and Archer's relationship could have been elaborated on a bit. Gilgamesh is entertaining but he's barely a character. I actually grew to hate the fight scenes over the course of the vn most of them did not grab me and I literally fell asleep while reading one once. Assassin is the coolest fucking character in the entire vn, and him fighting Saber in the Fate route was one of the only fight scenes I like, yet the story does nothing with him. Ilya and Beserker's relationship was nice and probably my favorite part of the vn.

>>725258078
The heroic spirit system is hardily a thing in the original Tsukihime timeline because the human order is weak there

green lancer

>>725255461
Medusa is one of the strongest since pegasus is a super NP tier monster mount that gets buffed by an A+ anti army NP on top of that. Her eyes are a massive nerf or instant kill. She's the fastest servant along with cu and she has tricky fighting trap techniques and if she can setup bloodfort that's a massive bonus since it cuts your power by up to 50% when you're in it and you would need a command spell just to get out of it.

She's however a monster in a war where Hercules the best monster slayer ever exists, and has bad compatibility with cu who is also one of the best servants to ever exist. She would curb stomp most of the servants in any other warn including achilles, have good chances against Karna and millions others.

She also knows aog magecraft if she can actually get some fucking energy to cast it with

How much sex is Saber and Shirou having in Avalon?

>>725256206
>Nasu comes up with Extra
>Write actually interesting setting for once
>Hakunon is pretty terrible but still nowhere as gary stu as Shirou
>Yet another Seiba flavour
>Some gay self referential memberberries from Tsukihime/KNK that actually sorta make sense in the setting so they become sorta cool outside of the Arcueid and Shiki fights
>The most interesting servant cast in any of his works despite FSN fanservice marring it and Lu Bu being a worse berserker, the first time an Assassin isn't a total joke AND is a really cool character
>Give the story a somewhat decent conclusion with a decent twist despite a lot of asspulls along the way
>Que CCC
>LOOOOOOOOOOOL it's all SOL virtual high school bullshit now remember Carnival Phantasm???
>What if more Sakura? What if Hyper oppai yander Sakura even
>What if Gil became a rabid Carl Sagan fan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Liz
>What if H.C. Andersen was an insufferable clinically depressed shota
>What if the last boss is some whore who literally vagina vores the planet in her """""noble phantasm""""
CCC is dogshit and completely tarnished what little good Nasu did with the original Extra, only good thing that came out of it all was Li Shuwen in the end

>>725256858
Anon he even says she survived because of instinct. Meanwhile rider dies in one hit to KUZUCHAD

>>725258134
Nothing because the Holy Grail doesn't actually do that
The Greater Grail is just a massive natural wellspring of mana that the three families primed 200 years ago for the specific purpose of completing the Holy Grail War ritual, which is to utilize that gigantic mana pool at the exact moment the summoned Servants' souls return to the Throne to blow open a path to The Root and reclaim the Third Magic (or some other kind if you're not an Einzbern)
The Greater Grail is basically a "wish-granting machine" able to direct that vast wellspring of mana toward any particular desire, but it has to be something realistically attainable with magecraft and it doesn't work anymore because the Grail has already accepted another wish

There are other Holy Grails in the series but none of them could accomplish this either, time travel and other violations of causality are Magic

>>725258121
Because that bitch will call her friends to hardcore fuck us over after she dies.

>>725258541
>The Greater Grail is just a massive natural wellspring of mana that the three families primed 200 years ago for the specific purpose of completing the Holy Grail War ritual, which is to utilize that gigantic mana pool at the exact moment the summoned Servants' souls return to the Throne to blow open a path to The Root and reclaim the Third Magic (or some other kind if you're not an Einzbern)

QRD on the creation of the grail and the three families?

>>725258481
>Steins;Reddit picture
Opinion discarded.

>>725238975 (OP)
>move has 100 accuracy
>accuracy cap is 255

>>725258481
Last Encore? Nasu's peak

>>725258581
Better than anything Nasu ever wrote

>>725258134
Nothing. The Grail doesn't actually "Grant wishes" it is "just" a fuck huge amount of concentrated magical energy that, in the actual intended use of the ritual, is meant to let someone pierce into the Akashic Records FOR SCIENCE(magic)! Then the Mages involved basically started killig eachother during the ritual when trying to decide who would get to look. and then other mages relaized they can use that huge that amoun t of magic to like, shit out a ton of gold or become immortal and shit like that. Basically imagine a Unlimited Credit Card that can "buy anything you wish", that's the Holy Grail. Technically there are "two grails" in the ritual, but it is kinda more a splitting hairs and mechanical thing in the spirit of your question. Also since im getting the vibe you are a non-reader, Not the actual Holy Grail either, which existed at one point but no longer does so, all Holy Grails warred for are "false" recreations.

But the Ritual is still very much "below" the actual world order and "system", it is a way to exploit them rather then overwrite them if you have the knowledge, but there will be reactions to it from the system itself and it will probably try snuffing you and your timeline out if existence.

>>725258581
>Only rebuttal is attacking the source of a reaction image
Yep, it's a CCCunt, you people are only second to the gachacucks in being the worst slice of this already godawful fanbase, and for the records, Steins is dogshit too like 99% of VNs.

Deen stay night is kino
Ufotable is cringe

>>725258690
>Anti VNfag goes mask off
Let me guess you like some ironic western "vn"

>>725258572
the Einzberns are a homonculi house that exist with the purpose of restoring the Third Magic, Heaven's Feel: being able to materialize souls and discarding lowly flesh.
They're friends with the Tohsaka and Makiri families and create the ritual with a super mage sacrificing an Illya's ancestor to be the Grail.
But they're retards so it broke down into a battle royale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQpcfWI7WLY

>>725257650
Karma determines a lot. Nasu loves to intertwine karma as the spiritual side of things and eugenics as a physical side of things. If you cast curses you build up karma as a penalty and feedback to yourself that will eventually bite you or your descendants in the ass. The karma of being curse users who did things to others is why Astolfos master was born talented but crazy and so had a humiliating death.

Kirei was born with the "right to have magic circuits" because risei was a good boy priest who lived piously and built up karma that way. Kireis own twisted karma led to the super burial agent anti-demon girl, Caren.

Mages continuously stack obsession and wisdom and dedication over generations and stack up their breeding mystery and karma through their research way of life.

In normal Buddhism you want to end karma but karma is connection and the result of things both and not necessarily bad. Curses are basically artificially forcing karma. But there's a second type of curses that's basically the Oyashiro sama legend type of stuff in higurashi and tatari from Melty Blood. Situations and setup that leads to karmic backlashes.

The only thing that can destroy karma is the mystic eyes of death perception. But a sword saint like musashi can sever and disconnect it. The funny thing is that the Ryougis multiple personalities are for the sake of brute forcing sword saint skills into humans so they can fight shuten doujinshi and koumas despite being humans.

The matous probably died out because zouken held on and distorted their karma and went against the meaning engraved in the magic crest (magic crests are basically a collection of spiritrons based around the thesis and dream of the first. A literal crystalization and gathering of mystery and soul particles for a purpose. When you engrave that into you and go against it..}

>>725258572
idk if it's what you're after but I'll explain it anyway because I think it's cool

"Magic" is a specific term reserved for things that humans can't achieve through science. iirc there are only seven things considered magic in the modern era. The second magic is time travel, and the third is 'materialisation of the soul.' Throwing fireballs isn't magic because humans can make fire.

>>725258328
But if he were green he would die

>>725258956
What karma dictated that Cu Chulainn receives a Noble Phantasm that quite literally never, ever works?

>>725256146
>>Examples?
My magical eyes let me see death, which is why I can cut through and destroy anything, even concepts and immortal beings. (Mystic Eyes of Death Perception)

My spear never misses. When I thrust the spear its simply a formality. Because my spears reverses cause and effect to hit you. (Gae Bolg)

Its true. Your attack is conceptually undodgeable. But I have a high Luck stat so I dodged it anyway. (Luck)

When I wear this pelt, I am immune to any weapons made by mankind (Hercule's Lion pelt)

My speed? Whatever your speed is +1. (Dromeus Komētēs)

Hmph. Its truth that I would normally need the destructive power to destroy a continent in one blow to even harm you. But my MYSTERY will allow me to infuse my SOUL into this attack to hurt you anyway with my fists / bullet / canonball. (Napeleon's Noble Phantasm in LB2, Sōjūrō's punch)

Oh? That's your ultimate attack. Well fuck you. I activate my trap card, which states that whenever you use your ultimate ability, I can go back in time, and blow a hole in your chest before you used your ultimate attack. (Fragnarch)

Hmph. You can't kill me. I have 13 lives. And every time you kill me, I become immune to dying in that manner. Unless you're using a divine construct. Then you can just kill me 6 times with one swing of your sword. (Godhand)

I'm a True Magic user so I have infinite mana and I can time travel and I can throw the concept of my death into the future and I can shoot you with a thousand beams from the future and I can create an infinite time loop and I can move my body back and forth through time to dodge any attack you throw at me. (Fifth Magic)

Hmph. Conceputally impossible, you say? Well my VOYAGE OF DREAMS allows me to make the impossible, possible. (Drake's Voyage of Dreams)

How strong, fast, and durable am I? Why, the answer is infinity of course! The planet will warp reality to make me better you in every possible way. I'll still job to a 16 year old japanese boy tho. (Arcueid)

>>725258773
No, I don't really like VNs period, a small minority is just barely passable teen literature, but I've been into Fate since I was a teenager over 20 years ago so there's some nostalgia factor in it that keeps me lurking around threads sometimes, and when I read retarded shit like yours I get kinda riled up.
It's like back when Unlimited Codes released and some of you faggots were glazing the shit out of it despite being broken kuso even by Eighting standards.

>>725259016
Ireland has fucked up karma and all its heroes are doomed to shitty fates (im making this up)

>>725258974
just use a japanese kanji that means both green and blue

Where are the penguins?

Who would win: Rin VS Touko

>>725259293
Touko

>>725258309
If you're willing to give it one more shot I think you might take to Heaven's Feel more, especially if you liked Illya. The story takes a much heavier tone and goes in very different directions early on, Shirou and Sakura's romance is a major driving part of the story that gets plenty of attention, and I would even say it has my favorite take on Saber since Shirou isn't constantly tripping over the fact that she's a girl or fixating on Archer instead. Really I think every character who gets their time to shine is at their best in Heaven's Feel, it greatly tightens the focus and everything that had been built up in the last two stories (like "what the fuck is Shirou's problem a human being cannot live like this") reaches its conclusion.

>>725259379
Thank you for the answer, anon

>>725258572
The Holy Grail War is a literal scam on multiple levels created by the 3 Families of Fuyuki.
1) The entire ritual was meant to sacrifice Servants
2) All masters outside of the 3 family were meant be sacrifices for ritual
3) The initial class system was deliberately designed to be unbalanced favoring the Knight class for the 3 families (Especially with the built in magic resistance), though the families indirectly found out that stats are less important than skillset
4)After all three failures (lack of enough sacrifices, betrayal, and especially immense disaster of the Third Grail War [basically a mini ww2 with the Nazis involved]). The Einzbern attempt to cheat the system by adding the Avenger class to summon a Devil, they failed to get what they want but it corrupted the Grail due to the cursed nature of that Servant that's based on 'sacrifical wishes' in origin

>>725259019
I have literal omniscience but I'm not going to use it because it would end the story in 10 seconds (Sha Naqba Imuru)

I'm a teenager with heart issues who has never worked out in my life but I can move faster than sound and cut through dozens of monsters in the blink of an eye (Shiki Tohno)

I'm a spoiled Roman Empress who never fought a day in my life but I can pick up a sword and fight on par with hypersonic spirits (Nero Claudius in Septim)

I'm a legendary hero from the Bible but because my writer is a horny degenerate I got turned into a femboy that wears pantyhose so that otaku can jerk off to me.(Noah)

I'm a legendary samurai who has been genderbent into a mentally ill women who believes that I'm your mom, despite this, I still want to fuck you (Raikou)

Hmph. I'll admit your attack is strong. It cannot be blocked, dodged, parried, or avoided. And it possesses enough power to vaporize even the entire world on impact. But even so! I can block it. (Anti Purge Defense)

A multiversal attack with enough power to wipe out humanity across all of time and space? Pfft. I can block that shit with my shield. (Lord Camelot)

What's that? You murdered the entire Indian Pantheon and then absorbed them? And it gave you enough power to become a god? And you've used it to remake Earth in your image multiple times? Thank goodness you're too stupid to use this ability against me! (Arjuna Alter)

Nani? You absorbed the three gods of fate? You're literally immune to everything because you can change fate itself to make it so that no attack can harm or hurt you? That's crazy. I'm still gonna beat you in a fight tho. (Ruler Moriarty)

So what you're saying is that thousands of people can be murdered and removed from history and the world will be exactly the same? Even if the people that died are some of the founding fucking fathers of America? (Babylon)

>>725256121
Can Caster beat Gilgamesh with this?

>>725257147
What I loved about Tsukihime, besides the urban fantasy / horror combo being really cool, was that every route was a small scale, deeply personal story. Every heroine had a very interesting internal conflict and I thought all of them (besides maybe Ciel's) were extremely well-executed. Each route's "big moment" hit me emotionally in a way nothing in FSN did. Hisui's route in particular really struck me, the moment where Shiki and her have the exact same interaction they did as children is totally beautiful in a way that's hard to describe.
Kagetsu Tohya I liked more or less because it gave me more time with the Tsukihime characters, but it also had it's fair share of cool horror moments, and I like that it elaborated on some of the things that weren't really addressed in Tsukihime, like Arihiko and Shiki's friendship.
Mahoyo is similar to Tsukihime, it's really just the story of one giant personality clash between three very different people, their interactions are very entertaining and Aoko and Alice slowly coming to accept Soujuurou felt very natural. Also Touko's legs
>And what did FSN do that turn you off so hard?
You can read my reply to the other anon, but the TLDR of my mess of thoughts on FSN is that I thought almost nothing was elaborated on to the degree that it should have been, few to none of the emotional moments worked for me as a result, and the action both literally and figuratively put me to sleep.

>>725238975 (OP)
Your attack's accuracy was debuffed

>>725259701
And why yes, the Lady of the Lake and Morgan are the same person. Even though The Lady of the Lake spent a large portion of the Arthurian mythos literally protecting Arthur from Morgan. I guess Morgan was just a schizo that would get into fist fights with herself.

See this Rune? It lets me instantly kill anyone who doesn't pass a mana resistance check. Don't worry, I won't use it on anybody though because it would break the plot and stop the heroes from beating me. (Surtr)

With my clairvoyance, I can gaze into the future at will. Even so, I will JOB to the main character. (Goetia)

I am over a thousand years old, and I am one of the greatest casters the world has ever seen, and I can project myself across time and space. I am watching (you) the mentally sound hero talk to himself. Instead of investigating, I'll simply let this happen. Surely nothing could go wrong here! (Merlin when he sees Gudao talking to the invisible Oberon)

Oh, and did I mention I could turn back time by several minutes? Boy, that ability sure would've been helpful a lot earlier in the plot. Don't worry though, I won't explain why I've never used this prior to this scene, and I'll also literally never use it again! (Merlin's Time Magic)

Why was Fate the only VN to break into the mainstream as a huge multimedia franchise?

>>725260036
Anime adaptations

>>725259743
>Can Caster beat Gilgamesh with this?
No lol. If Caster actually created a Gate of Babylon counter by utilizing Shirou, then Gil would take her seriously and murder her before she could even react.
The only way Caster could beat Gil would be if she captured Saber and got her Avalon, because Saber + Avalon > Gilgamesh as we saw in the Fate route

>>725259494
The First HGW was a misfire (they only summoned the three Knight classes and didn't realize they needed outside support yet), the Second was a bloodbath (literally everyone killed each other), the Third was what started the farce when the Einzberns tried to cheat by summoning Angra Mainyu, essentially the Zoroastrian God of Evil, and only got a lowly nameless sacrifice offered as "All The World's Evil," who promptly ate shit and died but in the process corrupted the Greater Grail by embodying the wish to "become All The World's Evil." So now the Grail is fucked and the Fourth War is aborted when the last guy standing realizes the Grail is fucked and breaks it before it can fuck the world, and the Fifth War is another farce starting 50 years prematurely because the Grail got edged with the Fourth War not properly finishing.

>>725259743
Technically Caster can "beat" pretty much everyone with enough preptime and RURU BREAKAH since she can subvert the ritual and then fuck off, which is how Casters should "fight". The thing is her win condition isn't really so much winning the Grail War as it is "Get a permanent manifestation and become a housewife", she would ideally never even face Gil in pursuit of that goal.

In a direct fight though? Nope. She probably would give up Saber to Gil to be allowed to go free though.

>>725259293
>Who would win: Rin VS Touko
As of right now? Touko. Rin is way too inexperienced and her mana while powerful, isn't that versatile.
Touko on the other hand is an absolute monster who can:
>create Mystic Eyes
>create Puppets that are so lifelike that the world itself believes they're real
>create top tier naruto tier puppets that she can remotely control to fight for her
>cheat death by moving her soul into puppet like clones of her body
She also has Lugh Beowulf, which is a powerful shapeshifting familiar that can tank blows with the force of 50 tons.

Now in the future, I could see Heaven's Feel Rin eventually becoming stronger than Touko, if she learns how to use the Second Magic. Which should be possible because she briefly used it in her fight with Sakura.

>>725256737
>What's crazy is he's actually really charismatic and fine in Fate/Zero, Fate/Babylonia, Fate CCC...basically every other series besides FSN.
He gets BTFO in Strange Fake too because he's a cocky retard

>>725257270
>because he wanted to play the role of the cool mysterious guy in front of his old high school crush after he got sent back in time
Is that why he immediately struck a power pose on the couch upon being summoned? If so, that's funny as fuck.

>>725256858
>Gilgamesh becoming a literal retard and the 1000 asspulls needed for Shirou to fight on par with him, which still ignores how efficiently he trashed BOTH Saber and Shirou in their first meeting in the Fate route, but all of a sudden he is an incompetent nigger than only fire stuff
I've always found it weird how this was memoryholed, both by FSN itself and the fans. Gilgamesh absolutely TRASHED Saber in melee combat in their first encounter, but the rest of the story tries to gaslight us into thinking that Gilgamesh is shitter who spams ranged attacks because he can't fight in melee. Its especially jarring in UBW, when Shirou says that he can fight Gilgamesh because in melee because Gilgamesh never took the time to master one weapon like the rest of the heroic spirits in the war did.

>>725258315
Tsukihime isn't the same worldline to begin with. It's a completely separate branch.

I finished UBW not too long ago, but I've never touched Fate outside of the vn. Is Archer in UBW supposed to be the future version of Shirou from the Fate route? That was the impression I got

>>725259196
You are, but it's incredibly accurate. Holy fuck Celtic myth is a ride.

>>725242092
Read the VN.

>>725259016
He only uses it once on screen and even when it doesn't work it still cripples saber so.
He uses the throw the other np of gae bolg and wrecks raw ass and wins the curb stomp battle.
He doesn't execute saber or archer for reasons but he won both fights.

>>725261048
>Is Archer in UBW supposed to be the future version of Shirou from the Fate route?
Not quite. Archer is from a route similar to the Fate route, but different. In his version of the route, he didn't romance Saber, and there was probably a different Archer. Since he was never challenged on his ideals or kept in check by the women in his life, Archer went on to to try and become a hero of justice. Which would eventually lead to him selling his soul to the planet to become one of humanity's immortal protectors: the Counter Guardians.
Meanwhile, the Shirou from the Fate route goes to Avalon and meets Saber there, where they live happily ever after.

>>725261048
>Is Archer in UBW supposed to be the future version of Shirou from the Fate route?
Basically yeah,He's Shirou from a version of Fate Route where he didn't saved Saber's heart.

>>725243673
This is right for the anime.

>>725259016
It doesn't help that he doesn't use it right. You are supposed to kick it, not thrust it.

>>725243673
>DEEN UBW Movie
lol, why would you recommend this to anyone? The movie is a legit 1/10 because it tries to compress 20 hours of story into like 2 hours

>>725252664
Tachi my beloved.

>>725259743
Gil doesn't really take Shirou seriously until the last second, and even when Gil is offended by Shirou's - well everything - it's like a king being offended from a peasant shitting and pissing itself in front of him. It's not worth that much effort to discretely signal for the removal of the piss.

Through that, Caster with a Shirou battery has a narrow path to win, though the fact it's Caster will probably make Gil slightly more alert: so possibly taking this half more seriously.

If Gil takes anything seriously, it's Game Over for anything, except, unironically, Sakura in HF.

>>725247502
That is a pretty important part that is often overlooked. If Shirou traces a weapon some legendary hero used, he will inherit the skill and ability of the hero that wielded it, maybe slightly downranked, but not the natural durability of the body and strength of that hero, so trying to pull shit off that the hero could do runs the risk of tearing him apart when the weapon just goes on autopilot. If he projected Nine Lives without Archer's arm to use it and tried to wield it, the weight and mass of that weapon would probably just pulp him instantly the moment he tried to swing it.

Sparks Liner High?

Kino

>>725259832
>almost nothing was elaborated on to the degree that it should have been, few to none of the emotional moments worked for me as a result, and the action both literally and figuratively put me to sleep.

HF is the Master's route and is the closest to Tsukihime's tone

Jack would have insane potential if she ever got an actually competent Master. The only time we've ever seen her fight with a competent Master guiding her was the Shimousa manga where she eviscerated Shuten repeatedly and even beat Raikou.

>Maria the Ripper is basically a Gae Bolg tier instant death curse only avoidable with extreme luck or faith, assuming you can apply all of its requirements (target is female, time is night, weather is foggy), one of which you can apply at will thanks to The Mist
>Information Erasure probably the single most broken passive imaginable in a holy grail war - everyone and everything forgets her appearance and name the moment she leaves the scene of the crime, including modern video evidence. Only ever leaves behind physical evidence like bloodstains

>>725252734
Nobody cares about that slut

>>725243673
It's not rocket science people. UBW season 1, which introduces the Holy Grail War. Fate: Zero, which introduces what can happen in the Holy Grail War and some spoilers. Then UBW season 2, which answers to those previous spoilers. Then HF.

You're babbling retard retardation about like we didn't all agree the best way to be introduced into Fate through anime 12 years ago.

>>725257572
https://youtu.be/6cSKxSBKxpE?si=QDS6sOwYLNmW9Y9L
GAR.

>>725262180
Ok but what if the servants and masters are male?

>>725238975 (OP)
>>725240934
AIIEEE NOT THE WOBBLY HANDS
SHIROSAMA MY PERFECT LCK STAT MEANS NOTHING TO THE WUBUBBLLELSJAHRHG

It has always been just bullshit tossed together.

>>725262412
That's very gay, anon. Winning the Holy Grail war sure is important, but are you sure you want to be that gay doing it

>>725262501
get on my level fag

>>725259019
That's not retardation, those are all very cool abilities that require intelligence to apply or overcome.

>Can't hit what you can't see
>Luck only works if it's something that qualifies as an attack
>Weapons not made by mankind would qualify such as fae forged weapons or weapons created by artificial intelligence
>Just slow down to a crawl
>Can't hurt me if you cna't hit me
>Just use a different weapon every time
>Can you use that magic when you're asleep?
>Nothing is impossible technically
>The planet has its limits conceptually, no matter how fast or smart you are, there's no escaping an event horizon

>>725259701
>omniscience does not equal omnipotence, you can see the attack coming, but if you have no strength to prevent it, you will simply know what obliterates you and when
>magical reinforcement is a thing
>The legend of a servant is what matters and not what their stats in life were
>I'm sure you know what Noah dressed like
>That's just based
>You can block it, but that doesn't mean you will survive the event
>Same thing here
>Indian pantheon are jobbers anyway
>Fate always yields to determined will
>Yes, absolutely, the flow of history always finds a way to flow around alterations and if you strain the history too much with your actions, it's you that will end up being removed from it

You don't need to be smart to shit on something. It's much more clever to play along and have fun, because that requires more thinking than mocking and dismissing things.

>>725262412
Then she still has a high tier killing method for masters because Maria ramps up with each requirement and it's already a good assassination skill at 2 effects.

Presence Concealment A+ is very high and she literally has a free pre-emptive strike on ANY target thanks to Murder on a Misty Night, so if she just assassinates the enemy master immediately it's just a win.

The only reason she doesn't win basically every engagement like this is because she's a child that likes to sadistically play with her victims. If she had a Master that told her not to though, she'd have won basically every encounter in Apocrypha she had, except maybe Jeanne because Jeanne has protection from curses.

Redpill is realizing the UBW/HF manga are better then ufotable's anime

>>725262501
Imagine sex with B rank pussy.

>>725262536
You know you don't HAVE to mana transfer your bros right? If you need some extra to top off you can go kidnap some orphans or enko JKs or some shit.

>>725262771
Ew

>>725262696
the only male master who had a male servant in the 5th Grail War is Kotomine

he already had a top entering into the war and then stole a male bottom from a random girl

do you want to be as gay as Kotomine Kirei

>>725238975 (OP)
Isn't Heroic Feat all about doing the impossible?

>>725251916
it works as intended, but those projectiles (they don't need to be arrows) exploded on contact.

"As long as the attack is a thrown type, he can avoid even Noble Phantasms, but he can't gain the effects of this protection with respect to wide range attack types where the attack range of the weapon explodes on impact, or a direct attack by a weapon that has simply long reach"

>>725263048
>Since when... where you under the impression... that only a servant could fight
k i n o
i
n
o

>>725259019
>>725259701
>>725260016

sounds like I'm reading jojo powers or something.

>>725263167
>Heroic Feet
That's all you gotta say bro.

>>725256641
it perfected the sublime atmosphere that already made Tsukihime and FSN so special
>late 20th / early 2000s urban environment
>everything is rapidly developing and modernizing
>live in old-money fancy mansion on the outskirts of town
>romantic (and sexual) tension between teenagers working together and suddenly living together
>occult mysticism under cover of the night
>nostalgia for traditional way of live that's slowly fading away
It's peak romanticism.

Tsukihime and Fate have that element too, but they're much more focused on action and battle that Mahoyo.
Fate as a franchise gets especially bad with this is with shounen fags and spinoffs focusing more on the game mechanics of the holy grail war than what actually made FSN good.

Did all the non-secondaries lose their shit when Saber killed Berserker once with Invisible Air? This didn't happen in the VN

What do you do if you've been one shotted by the lack of a Illya route? Should i just make a vn and just write my own route? Of course it would be a different genre than urban fantasy.

>>725257045
Yes. It mogs everything else. Every camp has a completely noticetable different vibe.

>>725263796
There's a decent fanfic which has been called "the Illya's route" since roughly 2012. Known and all that. In the progression of Fate -> UBW -> HF, it's also an even worse clusterfuck than HF, by two orders of magnitude.

>>725252734
Ciel is a Burial Agency Executor, something able to take on real menaces. For example Kirei was just barely an Executor and only that specialized against magus. He can't do shit to her, and Kirei is like a top tier Master.

>>725263796
We know it from the interviews
>Nasu confirmed that Ilya's bird familiars were from the draft

>Nasu: If it's at the land that houses the Holy Grail, then Ilya is indeed that strong. And being able to make a familiar from her hair was in the original draft. The work this time around was especially hard, so I ended up using an "Iri's replacement" approach. By the way, the name of the technique is Elfen Lied [German for Elves' Song, 天使の詩 - Angel's Poem]. The bird's name is Storch Fieseler [German term for a type of plane].

>Takeuchi confirmed that Shirou would have a sex scene with Leysritt and Sella

>At the initial concept stage, the only details we had hammered down about these two maids were their names, their general roles (powerhouse/teacher) and which one would become Illya's Dress of Heaven. We only expanded on these characters when we decided to go ahead with "hollow". Normal homonculi are mostly emotionless like Leysritt, so that illustrates what a unique case Illya is. Leysritt was created as a sample of Illya, and Sella was allowed to live only because she was useful as Illya's tutor. That's about the extent of the specifics we initially had for these characters. When I started writing Sella's part in "hollow", however, she quickly became one of my favourite characters. I like Leysritt too, of course. By the way, I think Sella is the only real tsundere character in "Fate". (laughs)

>Shirou losing his arm protecting Ilya, the two shopping and her singing, BRING ILLYA BACK, and Nine Lives Revolver were also planned for Illya's route

>Shirou was going to drop his ideal to make amends for Kiritsugu's sins in Illya's route, while the Sakura route focuses on him breaking free of Kiritsugu and becoming his own person. Also, Rin was likely going to become a villain after killing Sakura and going mad in the Illya route to complete the pattern of how each heroine is a villain in some route

>Zouken was the final boss

>>725263796
What are you talking about?
Its right here.

>>725253820
Saber under a proper Master (Rin) is the strongest Servant of her class in the original lore. Nevermind being able to fight like Saber Alter because of proper mana output, just by having a proper master her base stats skyrocket. If paired with Shirou she's able to clash with a Berserker (also stated to be the strongest of his class) that has a proper Master, that alone speaks about the quality of her as a Servant.

>Siegfried's Armor of Fafnir nullifies all ranked B attacks and sets A ranked attacks to rank E unless they access his weak point on his back where he has Rank F Defense
>Cu Chulainn's Gae Bolg is a ranked B attack but can forcibly raise its rank to A using runic magecraft if he believes he needs to
>Gae Bolg (thrust version) is a heart seeking attack that should prioritize the weak spot on Siegfried's back due to its curse of causality
>Siegfried's low luck score would make him especially weak to the curse of causality on Gae Bolg
>but Gae Bolg (thrust version) has a maximum range of 10 meters and Siegfried has an Agility score of B and the Disengage Skill at Rank A, allowing him to get clear
>but Cu Chulainn has an Agility score of A and may be able to run him down
WHO THE FUCK WINS?!?
THE CELTIC CHAD OR THE GERMAN HICK?!?!?
I CAN'T TELL BROS IT'S THE DUEL OF THE FATES

>>725264045
I didn't care for prillya.

Bros...

He still wounded her and this debuffed for the whole story.
Saber was meant to be the top dog, but because of the wound and Shirou's shit mana, she can't even use her ace in the hole.

>>725254749
There's no positive scenario for him unless he doesn't rape Sakura all those years back in time.

>>725262939
Kotomine inspired me to try out mapo tofu at a chinese restaurant once...
And I absolutely loved it.
A while later I looked up a recipe and it really isn't that hard to cook.
And now I regularly cook it myself.

I can only recommend it.

>>725263978
Illya's Maids [Others]
The maids serving Illya.
These maids made their appearance because some artistic director insisted on it and made a huge scene about it.
Sella was responsible for Illya's education, while Liz was Ilya's bosom buddy with whom she talked to.
By the way, did you know the secret that Liz had one of the biggest sets of breasts in Fate?
Basically they were failures in the creation of the Holy Grail. Originally these homonculi were set to be scrapped, but were given new lives as caretakers of Illya.
Here were some trivia. In early drafts, the caretaker of Illya was a tuxedo-wearing German man; someone akin to the wonderful man who nagged at Shirou and Rin incessantly.

>>725264204
Didn't nasu say zero is part of a alternate timeline?

>>725264373
Nasu says literally every didn't property is a different timeline because he has route autism.
He even says Kagetsu Tohya isn't a Tsukihime sequel.

>>725259151
>It's like back when Unlimited Codes released and some of you faggots were glazing the shit out of it despite being broken kuso even by Eighting standards.

Why didn't French-Bread make FSN fighter?

>>725238975 (OP)
>Game gives you an attack that has 100% Accuracy
>damage gets reduced by 99%
lol

>>725256678
His FSN self was tainted by the Grail's content and made crazy so he lost most of his positive traits and only his really bad traits remained, all the power of the world mean nothing if he's a bag of pride waiting to be exploited around.

>>725250716
>>725250897
I want to make tender loving to Illya in a warm bed so much bros..

>>725259151
You would have more success if you didn't shit on Steins, anon. Here you're sounding like one of those insufferable faggots who read three entire books in their entire lives and explain in many words how the latest books is slop because it's not like "Naruto: the novel" they read when they were 18.

Many of those can be found on reddit. Are you really sure you're not belonging there?

>Takeuchi: Speaking of being powerful... Who's stronger: Ciel or Kirei?

>Nasu: Ciel is by far more powerful. Just take her lineage into consideration, and add to that her immortality. Kirei's prowess in "Zero" was rooted in the sheer number of Command Spells at his disposal as much as it was in his obsession with Kiritsugu. Suffice to say, it was his golden age. I believe the "Zero" Kirei could have defeated Ciel.

>>725252664
No wonder he rejected loli routes the man was a milftard.

>>725256790
FGO's scenario exists because someone with the strongest Caster won a normal Holy Grail War.

>>725264110
>Keeps Roa's og hairstyle for 1 scene before changing it to a uglier one that keeps getting used in remake-related content now
T-thanks Nasu..

>>725256790
The entire reason for grail wars is not to play them straight though

>>725264903
>FGO's scenario exists because someone with the strongest Caster won a normal Holy Grail War.

How?

>>725252956
It was the only class left vacant aside from saber when Caster summoned him. It's easy to imagine she was trying to get a Saber, but since she doesn't really have a catalyst for one and it's the wraith that got summoned instead of proper heroic spirit, this is what she got.

>>725238975 (OP)
What's Nasu been up to lately besides the tsukihime remakes?

>>725264949
Solomon is backed up by the Big G

>>725253087
>All that flipping around
>Doesn't even show panty
What a sad year 2023 is.
>>725253280
BASEDO

Too bad ufotable fucked it up in this scene

>>725265062
He said he wants to finish Extella's story but that FGO dominates TM's focus.

>>725258415
all of it

>>725264949
Casters aren't bricks in FGO like they are if you rolled one in fsn.

>>725254905
What makes you think she can kill Herc, a guy whose origin is back in the mythical age when she literally jobbed to another hero?

>>725265062
There is that extra remake that is supposed to eventually come out in like a decade or something.

>>725238975 (OP)
the accuracy of the attack was 100% but the game was able to tell that you'd miss, so you miss

>>725265062
Mahoyo 2 & 3, Coming in 2035 and 2045.

>>725256790
>Grail War
It's not even a thing. The original objective was to get a fuckhuge mana tank, summon 7 heroic servants using said mana tank from the Throne, IMMEDIATELY kill all of them to send their souls straight to the throne, passing through said mana tank to acquire fuckhuge amount of energy to then pierce into Akasha.

People just kept asking themselves the question: well, yeah. But like. There is only one that can go through to Akasha, right? And we need 7 magi for this ritual, like, right? But only 1 can go through? And for a minute I'll have access to a walking WMD, right?

And then they started killing each others.

But a Grail War isn't even a thing. It's basically a ritualised war from a ritual that doesn't need any, just because the first set of dudes ended up killing each others. Then the second set of dudes. Then the THIRD, but with malice, now. Then the catastrophic FOURTH set of dudes.

>>725264949
He rolled Solomon who rolled over everyone because his NP is basically a DELETE button with 10 uses, more then enough for what that war needed, then after victory used it to get money and basically funded a NGO to further his Space Magic and a lot of inhuman experiments and combining technology and magic to juryrig up an observatory that predicts the future (by simulating it on a scale model planet replica) and a Summoning system based on the Grail War. Then swapped the surface of the replica model with that of the actual planet with substitute magic.

Details aren't completely out, but that's basically the gist, basically a lot of "simple" magic used cleverly backed by shit like nuclear reactors,blacksites and several super computers.

>>725265141
>but that FGO dominates TM's focus.
Really? I'm pretty sure I've seen anons mention recently that the broader FGO narrative was nearing its end.

Fate is such a dogshit overrated franchise along with NGE

>>725260904
Shirou fought him physically in his own inner world where he is at his absolute strongest

>>725264949
First of all, generally speaking the Abrahamic servants are the strongest and really use bizarre grimdark, lovecraftlike power. IIRC of the grand servants are held by Abrahamic/Abrahamic-tangential characters
King Solomon, the caster in question, is the greatest summoner, and probably greatest mage in the TM universe, his magecraft only potentially being eclipsed by True Magic (but that's wonky)
Solomon easily won his holy grail war because as tthe greatest summoner ever, he literally dismantled the spell keeping the other servants summoned, automatically winning. A power that is used against (You) in FGO

>>725264430
why do they add anti-soul gas in the last layer?
WHY IS THIS SHIT EVERWHERE?!

>>725242827
No. It's retarded in a cool way

>>725263978
>>Takeuchi confirmed that Shirou would have a sex scene with Leysritt and Sella
We were robbed

>>725240719
>tfw you forgot to delete your half thought-out passages before publishing them
Happens to the best of us

>>725256790
The grail war is just a ruse. An empty promise made to lure heroic spirits in so the mages of the three founders could use them to fill the magical container that would enable the mages alone to enter Akasha. This deception is what Kirei exposed to Gil and made him turn against Rin's stuck up daddy, after he already had poor opinion of the guy for forcing him with command spell.

We thought Gil was simply treacherous in FSN but it turns out he was simply paying back favor in kind in FZ.

>>725264809
kirei too op

>>725265547
Solomon not being the original user of one of the 5 True Magics is the real bullshit here.

>>725241250
Gilgy was basically handed the better half of his abilities instead of them being an extension of the skills he honed in life, so it's not unlikely he literally forgot he could do that.

>>725257814
She knew anyway once he died. That's why she warmed up so much to Shirou after archer's death in HF, to the point of even giving him access to her homunculus memories so he could make the jewel sword.

>>725265617
>The grail war is just a ruse. An empty promise made to lure heroic spirits in so the mages of the three founders could use them to fill the magical container that would enable the mages alone to enter Akasha.
It's wasn't a ruse. Not at the first ritual and arguable second ritual. All mages knew what they were doing and why. They just wanted to be the only one to get the prize.

After 2 failed attempt, people just canonized the ritual killing.

>>725264949
>How?
The Caster in question, Solomon, is the strongest servant in the entire series. I'm not even memeing. He has a pocket dimension he can enter and exit at will, he can see into the future, he can teleport at will, he has attacks that can erase space and time, he has 10 rings that allow him to control and negate ALL mage craft, he can turn off / block all noble phantasms, he vets revelations / divine whispers directly from the nasuverse supreme deity, and he could summon 72 demon pillars each of which is capable of taking on multiple servants. The plot of FGO literally revolves around Goetia, a demon, taking control of Solomon's body after Solomon dies, so that it can all of humanity.
Solomon is so strong that being summoned as a servant is actually a massive NERF for him because no servant container can handle the sheer amount of power that Solomon possessed.

>>725265547
that's cool
but fgo is so gay

>>725265809
Well, yeah. It's gacha.
But anon asked how a caster won. The answer is that THE caster won

>>725265547
>his magecraft only potentially being eclipsed by True Magic (but that's wonky)
His magic is better than true magic. He can create a pocket dimension (which he could theoretically use to dodge any attack just like Saber does with Avalon) and he can erase time and space. That's why Goetia went with Solomon's body instead of a True Magic user like Aoko or Zelretch. FGO also hypes up that Goetia using Solomon's body is a multiversal threat. Tamamo says that with all of her tails she'd be a multiversal level threat, but even with all of that power, she isn't sure if she'd be able to beat Solomon.
This isn't powercaling wank either. Solomon (Goetia) was going to use Ars Almadel Salomonis to wipe out every trace of humanity throughout all of time and space.

>>725238975 (OP)
so which one do I start with watching?

>>725242092
kill yourself normalfag

>>725266092
>so which one do I start with watching?
You don't. You start with the Fate/Stay Night visual novel, then you watch the Fate/Zero anime, then you can branch out to whatever you want

>>725266092
Well if you're animeonly you start with Zero because there are direct references to Zero in both the UBW and HF anime. So Zero -> UBW -> HF ->whatever you want, but it never really gets to those highs
But if you want to read the VN which is the best way to consume fate, start by reading the VN and watch Zero afterward.

>>725266182

Fuck off mate. It has been solved 10 years ago. >>725262326

If you start with Fate/Zero then the ending literally won't make sense to you and you won't have any idea wtf is going on. You'll also like half of the plot twists in FSN spoiled...

>>725265748
It literally was a ruse since the start wikireader-kun. The three houses were trying to use the third magic, the most coveted kind of magic that would let them transcend their flesh and blood bodies and go into Akasha while maintaining themselves. The first ritual failed because there were only three participants and there simply weren't enough heroes aka not enough mana batteries so they invited other mages without clueing them in the actual purpose of ritual in the second war which ended up as a shitty battle royal where everyone just died. Then third war the Einzbern got impatient so they summoned Angra Mainyu thinking the personification of evil would be strongest which ended up corrupting the container.

The mages outside of three houses weren't privy to the fact that you're supposed to use the last command spell to force servant to kill itself to finish the ritual and they literally bought in the scam that there's a grail to be won. By the fourth war Rin also didn't learn about this because her dad was killed before passing her this bit of treacherous knowledge. Only Zouken and Illya knew about it.

In short it's a fucking scam.

You can't start with Zero. Why keep saying this when Zero is meant to be watched with the previous knowledge from FSN? It is purely a fanservice work, over half of the characterization is lost by ignoring basic premises expected to be known by the audience. Just because It is the first of Ufotable's works on the franchise proper doesn't mean you have to watch it first.

>>725264110
Considering Siegfried died to a spear ambush, kino demands a death by spear, even if not by Cu's hands.

Did Arc 1 deserve the hate it got? It had a solid beginning, middle and ending

Seiba mindbroken into Cyasta's sex slave!

>>725266262
>>725266323
But then they just put Iri and Waver into UBW

>>725265062
>>725265216
The final redpill is that Nasu got bored of the Mahoyo and Tsukihime story and the main characters, he doesn't want to remake his old works. He views remaking his old works as homework he has to finish before being able to make something he truly wants which Fate and playing Hidetaka Miyazaki's next game

>2008
>The real meat Type-Moon is going to focus on in the next decade are going to be the Tsukihime remake, the Mahoyo trilogy, and the DDD novels that Nasu said he was going to put off hiatus soon.

>2012
>Nasu considers Fate like reading a 15-volume manga all at once. Mahoutsukai no Yoru is more like watching a two-hour movie
>Nasu doesn't like weak girls who would make men want to protect her, but a heroic girl who stands up to threats. This is how he came up with Aoko, Arcueid, Ciel, Rin, Saber, Bazett, etc
>Nasu worried that adding characters' voices to the equation would increase the amount of information on the screen to a point that users wouldn't be able to focus on the points they should
>Nasu says the real story will begin in the 2nd part, a brand new work
>Touko's appearance in Kara no Kyoukai was due to a parental desire of wanting her to see more action after the unfair treatment she received in Mahoutsukai no Yoru
>After Mahoyo, Nasu wanted to finish on the long awaited DDD series

>2015
>TYPE-MOON were planning on releasing Tsukihime in 2014, but most of their energies eventually turned to FGO. They sort-of restarted production on Tsukihime in 2017, but Takuechi and Nasu were still mostly busy at the time. By the summer of 2020 they returned to production in earnest.
>As for the Far Side routes, there will be 4 of them, including Satsuki. As for now, they have not entered production yet, but currently TYPE-MOON's focus are the climax of FGO part 2 and the Far Side of Tsukihime. None of the new routes will probably be as massive as Ciel Route, however.

>2024
>Nasu will never stop milking Fate
>Nasu wants to remake CCC

>>725266308
Oh and obviously Kotomine and Gil knew too. That's why they had the uncaring attitude whenever the grail was mentioned, they knew exactly the whole wish granting business is a sham.

>>725266372
>But then they just put Iri and Waver into UBW
If you go Zero -> FSN UBW anime then you'll be confused as fuck about the tone change and the Matou family.
Zero also blatantly spoils several key plot elements about the Emiya family, the Grail, and even the true antagonists of the series.

>>725266474
But why did they put Iri and Waver into UBW

soul...

>>725266372
it doesn't matter that you get to see Lord El-Meloi for 5 minutes at the end of UBW's ufotable if you're jumping into Zero next because who he is and what he beoomes is by itself a whole different branch of the series. Even then anyone starting should really just either: Read the VN (ffs there's even an online version of it that is free) or watch Deen's which is for the most part accurate to the first route.

The VN is the best experience because of how it drops the information to the reader. The anime focus too hard on the action aspect when the previous moments to combat are just as important.

>>725266308
Interesting. I've read FS/N, Hollow Ataraxia, and more Nasu than I can count. Where is that lore expressed explicitly?

>wikireader-kun
That's very, very insulting. You'll get a punch in your face insulting.

What are Nasu's worst works?

>>725266474
>>725266372
>>725266262
UBW season 1 -> Fate Zero 0 -> UBW season 2.

why are you even talking, why are you like this

>>725266630
I haven't heard anyone defend Extra Last Encore

I don't like any single character in this series, they are all rude assholes, there are some anime that do this where all characters are unlikeable smug assholes. Is this autism?

Uncontested list of Nasu's best stories

>Kara no Kyoukai 5 Paradox Spiral
>Tsukihime Arc and Ciel Route (two sides of the same coin)
>Tsukihime Hisui and Kohaku route (two sides of the same coin)
>Fate UBW Route
>Fate HF Route
>CCC Gil route
>LB6

Uncontested list of Nasu's worst stories

>Melty Blood
>Fate Saber route
>Most of Extra
>Most of FGO
>Extella
>Last Encore