Thread 2142393

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/developer-diary-3-trade-and-economics.1858641/

Greetings once again, everyone, and welcome back to our Europa Universalis V development diary series!

Today, we’re diving into one of the cornerstones of empire-building: the economy. In Europa Universalis V, we’re designing an economic system that’s not just about balancing the books, but about weaving together production, buildings, trade and the prosperity of your people into a living, dynamic world of growth.

Your challenge will be to harness these forces to strengthen your nation, expand its influence, and realize your imperial ambitions.

Production
To start things off, let's discuss production, the bedrock of your nation’s wealth. Every Location in EU5 has a type of raw material it produces and to gather that raw material, you need to gather it whether it be farming, hunting, mining, extracting or whatever else it may be. We call these raw material extractions as a resource gathering operation or R.G.O for short. R.G.Os are staffed by a sub-group of the commoner class known as Laborers. Positioned just above peasants in the social hierarchy, Laborers form the backbone of your economy by working in R.G.Os as well as certain production buildings, ensuring the steady flow of raw materials your nation depends on. In some cases in EU5, R.G.Os can also be worked on by slave pops.

RGO Map mode

The range of goods produced across the world in Europa Universalis V is vast and varied — from essential staples like grain and livestock, to strategic resources such as iron, copper, and coal, and all the way to coveted luxuries like silk, cloves, and precious gems.

What a Location produces is shaped by these factors:

Geography & Climate: The natural environment heavily influences production. Fertile plains favor grain harvests, while mountainous terrain may conceal rich mineral deposits. Climate determines what crops thrive and which resources are accessible, with certain raw materials tied to specific regions. For instance, cloves in south east asia or Cocoa in Central America.

Cloves in South East Asia - the only place in the world where cloves exist in game start

Similarly Cocoa can only be found in Central and South America

Historical Context: Many Locations begin with outputs that reflect their historical legacy. A location famed for its winemaking will likely yield wine in EU5, while regions that hosted famous mines, such as those rich in silver or gold — will continue that tradition within the game.

Historical Gold Mines of Mali

The Bohemian silver mine of Kutna Hora

The resources produced in a location generally do not change however there are events and the Colombian exchange situation that can potentially change a location’s R.G.O. While the type of resource is usually fixed, the potential level of an R.G.O is dynamic and shaped by many factors as your campaign progresses.

Here are the key elements that influence R.G.O capacity and output in Europa Universalis V:

Infrastructure & Population: Every R.G.O has a current level and a maximum potential level. You can invest to raise the current level of R.G.O infrastructure towards the maximum level, but it won’t operate at full capacity without sufficient Laborer pops. A larger population also increases the maximum level, allowing more resources to be gathered.

City of Vijayanagar in the year 1580


Development: A location's development directly affects how far its R.G.O can be expanded. Higher development means greater potential, and development itself grows over time through prosperity, cabinet actions, estate privileges, events, parliament, and improvements such as road networks.

Effects of a location with 57 development

Devastation: War, rebellion, natural disasters, or instability reduce productivity. A devastated province will underperform compared to a stable, peaceful one.

Local Modifiers: Some Locations feature unique modifiers tied to geography, culture, or history that enhance or alter production.

Fertile Nile Delta is a location modifier throughout the Nile Delta, increasing output of food production

Location Rank: Transitioning from a rural area to a town or city decreases the maximum R.G.O size, reflecting urbanization’s shift away from raw resource extraction.

Technology: Advances in agriculture, mining, and manufacturing boost output. Certain advances are tied to specific goods output, for example, the Slitting Mills Advance in the Age of Reformation, increases iron production by 66% nationwide. Many other advances increase maximum levels of R.G.Os throughout your nation.

Slitting Mills Advance Age of Reformation

Literacy: Higher literacy among labourers in a given location increases the potential size of resource gathering operations.

Buildings: Infrastructure such as windmills can improve output for specific goods, like boosting wheat and rice production in agricultural locations.There are also buildings that produce raw materials such as sand pits and salt collectors.

I don't like sand, it's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere… But I need it to run my other buildings

Together, these systems ensure that resource production in EU5 is not static, but evolves alongside your nation’s growth, technology, and the challenges it faces.

Buildings

Buildings are the instruments through which you shape your locations and unlock their full potential. In Europa Universalis V, they are far more than simple upgrades, each structure serves a distinct purpose, influencing production, resource output, trade, and the character of your locations in meaningful ways.

Buildings can be categorized into several types:

Basic Industry and Raw Materials Buildings: These buildings directly create goods, by using other goods as input, Examples include Tools Guild creating tools from Iron or a Printing Shop creating books with lead, paper, lumber and dyes. These buildings become better with further advancements with time, such as the tools guild becoming a tools workshop and eventually a tools factory. As mentioned earlier in this development diary, some of these goods that buildings produce are also extracted resources while others are more complex goods that can only be produced in buildings.

Tools Guilds are the only way to produce tools until the age of Reformation

Infrastructure Buildings: These are a type of building that increase goods output, population capacity, disease resistance, proximity cost or development gain. Examples of this are the irrigation building or Hospitals.

Irrigation buildings are a great way to increase population capacity in locations with rivers flowing through them.

Trade Buildings: These structures enhance a Location's role in the trade network. Increasing the amount of trades your nation can do in the market the location is in and increasing trade advantage, the level of trade power you exert, in that given market. Examples of this are marketplaces and trade offices.

Marketplaces are a vital part in establishing strong trade power

Military Buildings: These buildings support your military efforts by increasing monthly manpower and sailors. This also includes defensive buildings such as forts and bastions that make sieging your territory harder.

For Most Nations, the Armory is the first building that produces monthly manpower

Villages: These are buildings that can only be built in rural locations of your nation. Usually increasing food capacity in that location and giving other minor bonuses in exchange for peasants power in the location. These buildings also produce some goods on their own but are not as efficient as other production buildings. Examples of this are Farming Village or Forest Village.

A Forest Village may not be the most efficient building, but it employs peasants and its cheap

Cultural Buildings: These are buildings that help educate the masses or elevate cultural influence or tradition. Examples of this are the Library and Theatre.

You know what I like more than my brand new Carrack? Knowledge

Religious Buildings: These are buildings devoted to religion within the realm and power of the Clergy class. Examples of this are Temples and Cathederals.

Temples are a great way to increase control in Urban locations

Government Buildings: These are buildings that generally impact your nation on a nationwide scale, giving bonuses such as crown power and cabinet efficiency. Many of these buildings are limited in number and can only be built in the capital. Examples of this are the Chancery or Royal Court.

You can only have one Royal Court in your nation

Location Unique Buildings: While buildings that only certain nations can build exist in EU5, such as the janissary barracks for the Ottomans or the Fretoria for Portugal, there are also unique buildings that are location specific. These buildings give unique modifiers, sometimes country wide, that can only be built and upgraded in specific locations in the entire world. Examples of this are the Seljuk Mints in Sivas and Konya or the Library of Vijayangar in the city of Vijayangar.

Seljuk Mints can only be built in the locations of Konya and Sivas

Many buildings will upgrade over time depending on advancements in research and some buildings fit many of these roles in one building, such as a dock that gives more sailors for your navy while also reducing proximity cost through a port.

Docks give both sailors and proximity cost

Deciding which buildings to construct in a location is always a strategic choice, guided by the broader direction of your empire. A nation striving for economic dominance will naturally favor different structures than one seeking military supremacy or religious unity. These decisions are never made in isolation; as every building comes with an upfront cost and ongoing maintenance that must be balanced against the strength of your treasury.

Progress and innovation also play a central role. More advanced structures only become available after key technological breakthroughs, rewarding innovation and literacy.

Over time a paper guild eventually can be upgraded to a paper factory

At the same time, access to the right raw materials is essential, as many buildings require specific resources to be constructed in the first place and need goods to function properly.

This Hospital is operating at 83.33% due to lack of mercury

Finally, the needs of your population cannot be ignored. Each pop group consumes different goods to maintain its satisfaction, the clergy may demand books and incense, the burghers may demand tea and fine cloth, and the nobility may demand weaponry and horses. Meeting these demands shapes markets and creates pressures you must navigate carefully.

Goods Demands of the Nobility as Naples in 1580

In Europa Universalis V, buildings sit at the heart of a living economic cycle. Raw materials fuel construction, buildings drive production, and that production strengthens both your markets and your empire’s growth. Mastering this cycle is what allows you to transform ordinary locations into flourishing centers of power, prosperity, and development.

Markets
Europa Universalis V is the first title of the series with dynamic flow of goods between ever changing markets. Markets expand and retract based on their market attraction, goods flow dynamically from market to market depending on trade range and trades being done by nations with trade capacity in those markets.

Markets Mapmode in 1337

Market Map Modes in 1798 - Can you guess which nation was being played in this run?

Simply put, a market is where goods are bought and sold. Each market is anchored by a market center, located in a specific location, but its reach extends to other locations based on the Market Attraction and Market Protectionism of the market owner. The market owner is the nation that owns the market center, though ownership does not guarantee dominance. Weaker market owners can be outmaneuvered and dwarfed, and stronger rivals can often dictate the flow of trade.

A Breakdown of the Genoa market mid campaign (late 1500s). Genoa is struggling to maintain control over their own market

Every market assigns a unique price to each good, anchored in the selling price set at the market center. This price is dictated by the balance of supply and demand: scarce goods under high demand can climb to as much as 500% of their base cost, while oversupplied goods with little demand may fall to –90% of their base cost.

Over time, prices adjust toward a target price — the predicted value based on shifts in supply and demand within that market. Because no two markets are identical, the same goods can carry vastly different values across regions.

A huge difference between the price of Fish and the price of Chili in Constantinople in 1781

Market owners are not limited to their immediate sphere of influence — they can project their market outward, competing directly with rivals in what amounts to trade wars. At the heart of these struggles are two opposing forces:

Market Attraction, which measures how strongly a market center can pull nearby locations into its orbit.

Market Protection, which shields Locations from being absorbed into competing markets.

When two markets collide, Attraction and Protection are set against each other in a tug-of-war. The outcome decides which market ultimately claims control over contested Locations, redrawing the boundaries of economic influence.

If neglected, a market can quickly be overshadowed or absorbed by a competing market, diminishing its size and reach.

The Vijayanagar market is dominating its neighboring markets of Kozhikode and Pazhaverkadu - 1493

From the Age of Reformation onward, market influence gains a new layer of complexity through Mercantilism vs. Free Trade values. Moving towards Mercantilism strengthens market protection but reduces trade efficiency, while moving towards Free Trade enhances trade efficiency at the expense of trade protection. The balance between these approaches shifts from campaign to campaign, shaping not just your economy, but the way your entire game unfolds in Europa Universalis V.

Mercantilism vs Free Trade values

You might assume that consolidating everything into one large market is always the optimal strategy in EU5. However, markets that cover vast areas are hindered by the Market Access mechanic. The further a location is from its market center, the less access it will have, which directly reduces the goods available, lowers output, and diminishes the local tax base. In extreme cases, a location with 0% market access will be completely cut off from the market’s goods. It should be mentioned that RGO output does not get impacted by market access unlike buildings that will.

Fortunately, there are several ways to improve access. Constructing roads, relocating your market center, or even establishing entirely new markets can all help ensure your realm’s economy remains connected and prosperous.

Locations with lower market access are shaded darker in the market mapmode

A location’s market access can be found in the location screen, showing the transportation distance to the market center

The location of Hamarøy struggles due to having 0 market access to the Oslo market

Deciding whether to create new markets, dismantle old ones, or relocate existing market centers is a key strategic choice. Shifting a market center to a province with better reach, superior harbor capacity, or deeper access to inland trade routes can greatly strengthen your nation’s position.

>lack of stone in Italy
lol, lmao

Alternatively, emerging powers may establish entirely new markets to seize control over the flow of goods — a decisive step that can form the foundation of a thriving and independent economy.

Trade
Simply put, trade is the movement of goods between markets. Goods are purchased in one market and sold in another, either to generate profit or to alleviate shortages by supplying a destination market with resources it otherwise struggles to access.

A list of active trades out of the Konstatinyye market as Ottomans in 1419

Trade profit in Europa Universalis V is determined by the price gap between markets: the difference between what a good sells for in the exporting market and what it can fetch in the importing one. From this margin, the maintenance costs of conducting the trade are subtracted. Distance between the two markets, along with any tolls encountered along the route, will steadily erode profits. Making efficient routes and favorable conditions essential for a thriving trade network.

The Kronborg Castle acts as a Sound Toll, taxing all trade that flows through Øresund

As mentioned earlier in this developer diary, not all raw materials are naturally extractable or produceable in every market. Not every market will have gold, silver, copper, mercury or gems. Not every market will be able to produce Lacquerware or Porcelain. Trade will be the only tool at your disposal to relieve the demands of the goods you do not have access to. Without trade, many of your buildings and pops will suffer. Weighing whether it's worth bringing in access to goods, even if it's at a loss, is another strategic decision to be made while playing Europa Universalis 5. A decision you may see yourself doing more than not.

Within any active market, every nation with influence competes for the most favorable trades through their trade advantage. Nations with the highest trade advantage secure first access to goods to export out of the market, while those with little trade advantage are left with the scraps. Trade advantage can be increased by investing in buildings like Marketplaces, strengthening maritime presence, or controlling more Locations within the market.

Trade Advantage of Vijayanagar in the Vijayanagar Market 1580

Once established in a market, nations can engage in trade according to their trade capacity, representing the volume of goods they are able to import and export. More trade capacity, the more trades in and out of a given market. This can be increased with buildings, advances, and estate privileges.

Trade Capacity in the same market

Not all markets are accessible, whether a market can trade from one market to another is determined by Trade range. Trade range is the maximum distance at which a country can conduct trade between two markets, calculated from their respective market centers. As long as a market has trade capacity, it will be able to trade with all markets within its trade range. Trade range can be increased through Advances, laws, estate privileges and government reforms.

Transportation Code Government Reform, one of the many ways to increase trade range

In Europa Universalis V, trade is not conducted solely by nations. The Burgher class also engages in independent trade, moving goods to alleviate shortages within their own Locations. The scale of this activity grows with the size of your Burgher population and can be further expanded through the estate privilege Burgher Trade Monopolies. However, granting this privilege comes at a cost, as it reduces your nation’s own trade capacity in exchange for greater Burgher-driven commerce.

Trade Monopolies estate privilege increases burgher trades at the cost of nation wide trace capacity

The economic systems of Europa Universalis V are designed to be dynamic, interconnected, and deeply strategic. From the resources extracted by laborers and shaped by geography, to the buildings that transform locations into centers of prosperity, and the markets that bind nations together in trade and rivalry, every decision you make influences the flow of goods and the fortunes of your people. Mastering the balance between production, markets, and trade is not just about wealth : it is about power, influence, and the ability to shape the ambitious destiny of your empire.

That's all for today! Don't Forget you can Pre-Purchase Europa Universals V now
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S9J-EkCcYs

Europa Universalis V - Feature Video: Trade & Economics

70 unique goods, evolving production chains, and dynamic global markets that react to your every decision — welcome to the beating economic heart of Europa Universalis V!

In this official feature video, we unravel how EU5’s trade and economic systems transform resources, wealth, and power into tools of empire:

Goods & Production: From common grain to exotic spices, every resource has value
Trade Routes: Dominate key markets or make your own to control the flow of wealth across continents.
Economic Warfare: Bankrupt rivals, embargo enemies, and fuel your ambitions with gold.

Whether you’re a mercantile republic or a colonial superpower, your economy will define your destiny.

>>2142419
Did Japan actually have this much gold at this time?

Can we enslave niggers and use them as cannon fodder in european wars?

>>2142436
Yes, already confirmed as a mechanic

So the Balkaniggers managed with all their bitching moaning and forgery to change Ragusa's name to dubrovnik, kek

>>2142427
remember the tiles are very small but yes Japan used to be rich in mineral especially silver but they kinda exhausted all that during the 20th century

>>2142436
Only islamic countries can use slave soldiers.

>>2142427
Yes, Japan was the biggest gold producer in the world for a while until the mines ran dry.

>>2142476
Ragusa should be the official name of the place - as the treaty of Zara hasn't happened yet and Venice still is her suzerain (and even then the official name should change but gradually as slavs gradually overwhelm whatever is left of the old greco-latin colonists).

>>2142427
Japan had a good amount of gold and a lot of silver (though in 1337 they barely produced silver, that came later)
What they critically lacked was iron, I'm surprised they gave Japan any iron RGOs.

There are many pop history memes floating around about Japanese iron mostly in the context of katanas or WW2 or some shit, but it's true that imports of iron and iron tools were a serious liability for Japan going all the way back to the dawn of their iron age.
In fact the Japanese "iron age" was delayed in part by their reliance on imports, and this harmed farmers' ability to adopt more efficient farming methods, for example wet-rice cultivation which requires iron tools. They had iron tools since the Yayoi period of course, but adoption was so agonizingly slow that even by the 1300s much of the archipelago's farmland wasn't being exploited properly, especially the east.

This is very important to Japanese history because in order to force the peasants to adopt new farming techniques - so they could farm rice which could then be taxed in the Chinese fashion - the court sent out men to encourage agriculture. In return, these men were given the right to inherit the land for a certain number of generations. This system was subverted over time and decayed into fully private ownership, and the stewards became landlords. The most powerful landlords would become the daimyo. Iron scarcity is one pillar on which the whole premise of the region stands.
Maybe the game's economy just doesn't function if you have a constant iron/tools shortage, and they had to throw some in for balance.

>>2142476
I don't get it, aren't those just different languages' names for it?
Dubrovnik is what slavs called it and Ragusa is the greek and latin name. If it's named Dubrovnik that's probably a dynamic name change thing because the location is majority Croatian or its overlord is slavic.

>>2142502
>Yaoi period
I'm sorry I can't read that without thinking about something else

>>2142508
Well they did fuck the Jomon pretty hard

>>2142502
Japan definitely had some iron, around the same per capita as China, and silver mines were the lifeline of the Izumo clan at the time though

What does our hero Lambert think about the new EU5 patch Paradox let him test?

>>2142512
why do people feel the need to announce their political views on a forum that forbids then cry about getting punished for it? it would be equally obnoxious if i put "facts don't care about your feelings" thing in my bio and a israel flag as my avatar. why does he think he should get preferential treatment?

>>2142500
All true except the latins were the natives.
>>2142506
Maybe, probably not

>>2142531
Political brainrot is powerful. Just look at the previous thread, it happens here too even with no names and avatars.

>>2142531
>respectfully disasneed
Maybe it's paradox behaving like the censoring unsufferable reddit cunts they are

>>2142531
>it would be equally obnoxious if i put "facts don't care about your feelings" thing in my bio
But what if the fact is that EU V will be good?

>>2142506
>that's probably a dynamic name change thing because the location is majority Croatian or its overlord is slavic.
but it isn't, it's majority italian and owned by an italian country

>>2142502
Considering the tonnage of iron produced in Japan, I'm going to guess that you've heard this from some history fact digest that doesn't actually know crap. I believe Japan had an issue with skilled labor in making things out of iron. "poor quality iron" is also kind of a myth. The problem is primarily economic. It was better to import Korean and Chinese tools than make Japanese ones.

>>2142544
Japan like all places has iron, it just lacks the kind of easily exploitable massive iron deposits required for 1900's industrial steel processes. That doesn't mean they didn't have plenty to go around for the purposes of 1500's weapon and pot production.

>>2142531
They believe they are on the "right side of history", it is why they do so much crazy stuff. They think they'll be absolved in the future. It is basically like an infinite struggle session.

>>2142546
The iron production in Japan wasn't that big in the first half of the 2nd millennium, but it grew a lot over the Edo period. There was iron, exploiting it wasn't economical, but it was eventually exploited artisans. That eventually raised the problem where artisanal steel production was simply not enough for industrialization, and that's another topic.

>>2142555
>There was iron, exploiting it wasn't economical
It was economical before industrialization, which is what matters for EU time period.

>>2142559
I'm talking about a time before EU5 and during the time frame when I say that.

>>2142547
you don't know what struggle session means

I'm going to play Hussite Bohemia first.

>>2142578
No one falls for this shit anymore but it is pretty much what they want to initiate. They make their statements to draw out their enemies so they can then harass them and maybe even ban them if it is a place they control. The only reason someone would make an off topic political statement around people of unknown stances is to provoke a response.

>>2142407
The fuck happened in Britain?

>>2142665
I assume the player colonized them as a South East Asian.

>>2142512
What was the offending signature? Some shit about the war? I'd imagine it'd have to be something more extreme than "slava ukraini".

>>2142407
>Bangor
>Kingston
Kek.

>>2142677
I still see that in the guy's signature now so I assume it was more than that.

>>2142512
Why is this his whole personality if he's not even from Ukraine

>>2142695
Superbowl war

>>2142412
that's the greatest surplus, numbnuts

>>2142720
That go a whole 15 miles per hour!

>>2142512
>break rules of forum
>moderator tells you to change it
>"insipid cunt"
Bit harsh, no?

>>2142665
>>2142676
it's a province in new england

>>2142665
Believable worlds.

>>2142825
He is FUCKING fighting for Slava Ukraine with is map game siggy you fucking Zigger! You want Putler to win?

>>2142537
>politics
>brainrot
Calm yourself, Silicon Valley Liberal™. Your kind gets clowned on the hardest. Almost as hard as you clown on yourself by simply existing.

>>2142584
Someone should make galaxy brain meme for EU larpers (Byzantium, China, France, Great Britain, etc.) with Jan Žižka doing a Medieval Christian Anarcho-Communism being the peak.

>>2142835
NTA, but what the fuck are you on about?

>>2142933
Do you actually want to be educated on the ideology of techbros and how they think they are above politics, and "it's just a technical problem, not a political one"?

>>2142936
Politics is important and it will impact you even if you ignore it. At the same time, there's people who let their brain be completely hijacked by really myopic ideas. Political brainrot is real, and you're providing a good example of it either through a misplaced act or through stupidity.
So, what does someone mean with the phrase "political brainrot"? Do they mean "[all] politics [is] brainrot"? No you actual fucking retarded piece of shit. If someone says "yellow car" do they mean "[everything] yellow [is a] car"?

I'll give a non-political example. Embracing stoicism is philosophical brainrot, because it's untenable, contradictory with reality and itself, and will cause you nothing but sorrow. You will notice the pattern that stoics cannot fully follow their own philosophy. Stoicism contains good truths you should adapt and pay attention to, but it's not a lifestyle. Your choice of political ideology is likely the same way. It likely contains some truth (not always the case), but it's not the whole truth.

>>2142937
>mind rotten by the Golden Mean lectures others on "political brainrot" (it's just bad and wrong politics that others adhere to, and others only)
Ironic.

>>2142938
"Political brainrot" is a very apt pejorative. It fits those situations where your brain gets so rotted by a political perspective that you don't have the common decorum to recognize the limits of your perspective. Politics can be defined as all-encompassing in human society in a completely reasonable manner, but YOUR politics are not all-encompassing in any reasonable sense. As such everything can be a political discussion, but YOU have lost the plot if YOU bring YOUR politics into every discussion.

That goes for every YOU. That is what people mean when they say they don't want politics. They want to stay on topic.

>>2142940 (me)
I'll emphasize one thing. Yes, it goes for even me. I'm sorry for this diversion. I said what I felt needed to be said.

>>2142944
There is a brain disease that leads one to believe the internets is serious business, that he alone can evangelize to and educate everyone he meets online, and the way to do this must be posting political bullshit du jour in unrelated places. Much like this guy >>2142512 believes he can personally win the Russo-Ukrainian War by changing his signature on the map game forum.
I called this disease "political brainrot" because it feels like a mental impairment, like the people subject to it lack a level of self-awareness about the context they're in.

On the topic of VIDEO GAMES at least the EU5 devs realized the context here is a video game, so they don't give a shit about including historical slavery, genocide, etc

>>2142963
Here's the funny thing. I realize what kind of voices are missing from this conversation.
I agree with his stance on many levels. Politically, I'm 100% with him. I'm from Eastern Europe. In the context of expressing this on the Paradox forums, I think it's silly to not get why he's told to chill a little. It's a perfectly reasonable call and the moderation isn't out of line at all. Not everyone needs to hear everyone's opinion.
How many people are anti-imperialist? And how many of those people play EU like an anti-imperialist?
How many people are against murder? How many of those people murder people in GTA like it's nothing? Context is everything.

changes in the new EU5 update

>>2142975
>nerf to bailiffs
Sweet

>>2142975
We are so back

>>2142975
Im afraid this game will flop hard will all the blobbers from EUIV not showing up

Fuck blobbers, map painters and world conquest

My heckin' Ukraini DLC magnyiv opus!

Why do ziggers always seethe so much?

>>2143011
>>2143014
Second world nationalism was already bad enough (see: Russia), and then the West had to give the Ukies validation that their shithole was better than the other shitholes around them

>>2143020
it is if you're a thirdie

>>2143011
kys nigger

>>2143042
Hit a nerve?

>>2143038
This

>>2143016
>that their shithole was better than the other shitholes around them
That's true, though

>>2142720
genuinely? i hope you're not joking. i love trains.

>>2142997
why does it matter if it flops? as long as its actually good who cares about the sales figures. are you a shareholder or something?

>>2143104
the entire eastern half of the country is a smoldering crater ravaged by decades of slavnigger nationalist violence. it is by far the biggest shithole in europe.

>>2143129
The final tier of roads is a railroad.

>>2143137
so you're telling me that the objectively correct way to play is to cheat yourself into max tech and BECVM RVME as an Italian minor?

>>2143143
No, if you play the TRVE Rome (eastern) they start the game with existing historical ROMAN roads

>>2143148
I wasn't talking about restoring the Roman Empire, I was talking about BECVMING RVM and yelling VGH at my creation

>>2143104
Not really, not even by post-USSR standards, which is a low bar

>>2142720
Johan really is trying to build a framework for a REAL Vicky 3 in disguise, isn't he

>>2143132
Are you retarded? If by god grace EUv is actually good, Paradox games still need at least 3 years of update and patches to fix all the bugs and bullshit mechanics that will exist, not to mention getting the same amount of contents like EUIV
A flopping game wont have that

>content like eu4
lol
lmao even

>>2143200
Balkanoids are subhuman

>>2143203
then modders will fix it. stop worrying so much.

Has (you)r feedback made it into the game?

>>2143203
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feNU7GHxVjw

Only 25 out of 157 features in eu4 are not in eu5 according to the video.

>>2143233
JoGods we win again

>>2143200
>He spooshed hard into macadonia!
Fetish content.

>>2143232
waiting for the world feedback map at the end of the month to see

>>2143233
>Objectives for wat partners
>Not Available
Seriously? Isn't CK3 also missing this feature after years of people whining? Is their new engine simply incapable of handling this?

>>2143232
>no mana
>pops
Yes, it has.

What are good content creators so far? Playmaker is a whiny faggot. Generalist Gaming seems cool

>>2143233
Most of these are features for different systems though that have been upgraded into something new.

>>2143200
>Battle Of Rusokastro
>Byzzies and Bulgarians sign alliance against Serbia
>Bulgaria fights Serbia
>Byzantines backstab and betray them invading Bulgarian Thrace
>Bulgarians peace out against Serbs and march east
>Byzantium has fuck all troops and are completely prepared for an actual war
>10k Bulgars vs 8k Byzzies
>Byzzies get crushed
Were the Byzantines unironically retarded? And this is the much vaunted Andronikos III not even his giganigger father.

>>2143233
Most of this missing stuff is thing I never cared about/used/got the DLC for so looks good to me desu
Johanchads win again

>>2143284
they tried to "divide and conquer" like actual romans used to

>>2143232
I got some changes into Achaea yeah. At the very least it's starting leader is better represented as Catherine.

>>2143293
That requires you to conquer though. They straight up weren't prepared for an actual battle. It's like the entire plan was hope Bulgaria doesn't turn around.

>>2143284
>prepared
unprepared.

>>2143233
>no random new world
doa game

>>2143312
embarrassing bait

>>2143327
i have gotten a (you), it's working actually

>>2143232
yep. i got my balkan shithole city to change to a completely made up name.

>>2143148
>TRVE Rome
>Reekjeets
lol, lmfao even

Napoli is the only true way to restore the glory of Rome

>>2142393 (OP)
The Kingdom of Naples should be the strongest in the game from start to end.

>>2143538
Aren't Southern Italians brown monkeys who took forever to escape feudalism?

>>2143560
hence the need for a firm frankish guiding hand, which luckily naples is equipped with

>>2143232
Am I still in time to submit a feedback or are they simply going to scrap it now?

>>2143284
>Were the Byzantines unironically retarded?
Yes. Their entire history is just that on repeat with the occasional bailout by foreigners/an actually competent ruler, and then they blow it on stupid shit again and lost half their country again.

De@th2PDX is right.

>vic 3 ui is good
stopped reading there

>>2143203
Even Imperator got a few years of post-release support before being taken out the back and shot right? Surely this one will be able to coast for a while on brand recognition alone even if it is a flop.

>>2143538
>Byzantium-Naples
>HRE-Naples
>Hungary-Naples
>France-Naples
>Aragon-Naples
>Spain-Naples
If any, Naples was the whore kingdom of the medieval era.

>>2143280
I'm pretty sure that's what the "other mechanic" column is supposed to imply, as opposed to "not available" which are the actual missing features.

>>2143688
This is not a human btw

>>2143688
Stop posting your worthless opinions here.

>>2143696
How do you know he's polish?

>2143688
He's right. Vicky 3 does look great
Shame it plays like absolute shit.

does africa have enough arable land yet
or is it "uncolonized" empires of millions of people

>>2143134
It's 25% at best, and Ukraine is the biggest country in Europe, so the country with the most potential.

>>2143701
vic 3 looks disgusting but we can at least both agree it plays like shit. in fact its a complete insult to vic 2.

>>2143706
>only a quarter of my country is an unsalvageable empty wasteland full of corpses, its not so bad!
slavniggers need better standards.

>>2143168
happy for you bro

>>2143276
I thought so too until I watched his yearly Slava Ukraine vicky stream. He does a decent job avoiding his politics in videos but for a 12 hour stream he can't help himself.

>>2143706
>It's 25% at best, and Ukraine is the biggest country in Europe, so the country with the most potential.
Ukraine is the people, not the land, and their Jewish dictator is speedrunning the total collapse of their male population by v&’ing them directly into the meat grinder, while their women fled the country to be whores. It’s unironically over for Ukraine, it’s sad as fuck to see.

>>2143720
retard

>>2143688
He's kind of right. Vic 3 UI problem isn't that it's ugly, it's that it's a complete mess at times. I can't speak for how functional the EUV UI is, but it's ugly.

>>2143132
>why does it matter if it flops?
Because then Paradox won't make more games like it, and it'll either get less support or they'll take in a direction back towards their other games.

>>2142997
I have over 4000 hours in EU4 and the WC cheevo and I'm hyped for this game. They'll be fine.
blobGODS such as us want the game to be harder so we have more time to blob before the game is over.

>>2143831
Do you have the 1821 cheevo

>>2143831
I think WC was considered difficult in EUIV at the start as well and now there's Chinese dudes doing it in 20 years or so, the eternal blobber will always find a way

>>2143837
no way, I'm not a psychopath

>>2142512
Lambert argued with a guy who actually lost a friend in Ukraine and called his story a lie.
Go to his profile. It's embarrassing

>>2143841
Tbf that guy sounds full of shit (butthurt ruzzshit) and an ukrainian vet would probably murder him

>>2143841
>actually my friend (you don't know him, he goes to a different school) who died thinks your idea is dumb and you should stop posting
Lambert is still a retard for his reaction but if you had to stop every time a internet stranger showed up with a sob story about how their dead whatever doesn't like what you're doing you'd never get anything done

>>2143706
You cant just take size into account. Ukraine is basically all flatland and as we can see it's not in a defensible position. Take Britain, it's small but no one could invade it succesfully for the past 1000 years. Hitler and Napoleon would have mopped the floor with them if it wasnt for the channel.

>>2143841
Pretty sure the person Lambert's talking to is just some shitskin jeet or actual rusnigger making shit up.

>>2143852
>but no one could invade it successfully for the past 1000 years

And yet it was invaded successfully twice.

>>2143841
lolbert is a fat commie

>>2142512
He got banned lmao.

>>2143852
>Ukraine is basically all flatland
So perfect for development and to build stuff without problems, then.

>and as we can see it's not in a defensible position
That wouldn't be a problem if ziggers didn't have war as one of their main policies. Besides walled cities exist, you know.

>Take Britain, it's small but no one could invade it succesfully for the past 1000 years.
So this is what brits actually believe, huh?

>>2143841
I think a lot of vets would find it cringe but I doubt many would hate him for it. He's kind of a spastic about this topic. Map games, anyone?

>>2143882
nigga there aint any real discussion of this game until november. people are just wasting time here.

When are we getting more gameplay footage

>>2143887
What's the difference between real discussion and not-real discussion about the game?

>>2143891
Real discussion is about the core mechanics as well as experiences playing the game.
not-real is talking about how Slutzwiggletonburg should not have 343 pops it should have 453 as per the historic manuscript KRUMPENDESEXXINFUGGILYWOOGONBOOKEN written in 1372 by a traveling paedophile, Paradox is woke/anti-woke for not accurately presenting this location in the game!

https://youtube.com/shorts/nfghjUMPbKw?si=E931rBVyDTy0k8se
>papal caucasia
believable worlds

>>2143934
I bet it's a colony.

jannies deleted my reply because i said slavnigger.

>>2143934
They have already said that the Pope has too much money so the papal states runs out of things to spend it on so they spend it on colonies.

>>2144024
Snowy ziggaz

>>2144033
They should be able to use the money to fuck with other countries.

>>2144046
Yeah that's called Catholicism

>>2142975
We're so back

>>2143232
They scrapped 99% of my detailed, properly sourced and reasonable feedback (it's not like I asked for a gorillon of new locations) except for a couple of RGO changes and a single terrain change.

>>2143660
Well they'll likely bookmark it if it's well made or simple to add.

>>2142975
I'm actually glad they make these changes instead of making it harder to take land or "le early modern UN denounces your aggression". It should be easy to conquer something huge rapidly if you are stronger than your opponent(s). Internal management should be what brings difficulty to the situation afterwards.

>>2144033
Based, can't wait to conquer the whole Caribbean region as the Pope.

>>2143841
>Krinky
He didn't fly far from the nest if true.

>>2143872
>It's real.
What did he expect?

>>2143233
>queens (female rulers) is a feature
incredible work saar
might as well include pausing, saving or taking screenshots as a feature to boost these numbers

>>2144183
sex with queens should be a feature

>>2144182
>3 days
nothingburger

>>2143560
>took forever to escape feudalism
Uhm, Dutchy of Benevento, hello?

>>2144186
sex with princesses should be a feature

>>2144204
sex with random girls you capture in foreign lands should be a feature

>>2143841
>noooo my totally real friend died defending his home and I find your support of his home cringe.
There's only one guy virtue signalling here and it's not lambert.

>>2144231
All Ukraine supporters still are virtue signallers by default since that is literally all they are doing. Putting an uninspired flag everywhere and saying the names of random military groups isn't helping save lives. If they really cared they'd silently donate money to proven humanitarian groups working in the region.

>>2144241
>they can't do both

>sops will probably be playable at release
based

>>2144255
Playing as Abo no. 628 will be awesome

>A short video by a French YouTuber with access to his experience with slaves in Morocco.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4WP3hetv_8
>Morocco can raid coasts to obtain slaves. The raids are not carried out by its own fleet, but rather by investing its sailors in coastal raids to obtain slaves. So you exchange sailors for slaves; the more sailors you invest, the more slaves you get.
>As Morocco, he conquered a place in Aragon and opened a slave market there, which supplies his RPGs in Morocco with slaves.
>He warns that importing too many slaves increases the risk of uprisings because the slaves have a different religion and culture than the local population.
>He describes how his coastal raids have led to very poor relations with the countries from which he steals people.
>Slavery enables him to employ people with an acceptable culture in industrial enterprises, while the slaves produce the raw materials for this.
This is the shit that will make me play this game for 1000s of hours

>>2144259
no abbos are SoPs though

>>2144259
There are no abo SoPs

>>2144269
>>2144270
I got some things confused. It is honestly for the best anyway as making those playable would've been even more ridiculous.

>>2144265
and some people wonder why nobody likes nafris

>>2144265
I really hope they represent just how much terror these pirates brought to the Europeans. Even beaches in southern England weren't necessarily safe. That aside, this does already sound pretty cool.

>>2144288
very few people have any idea that the french occupation of algeria was because it was literally the only way to stop the slaver states

>>2144302
Huh? Wasn't it to avoid paying their denbts?

>>2144161
based. the customer is always wrong.

>>2144246
can bet my left testicle he doesn't do the latter

>>2144392
With videogames this is true outside of cases where the developers are absolute faggots.

>>2144302
>very few people have any idea that the french occupation of algeria
Some guy from my hometown suicide bombed Tripoli with his ship.

>>2144292
>Even beaches in southern England weren't necessarily safe.
there's an island in the bristol channel that was used as a berber pirate base

>>2144292
Even Iceland and the Faroe Islands got raided in the XVII century.
And that's the ones we know.

>>2143934
UGH!

>>2144496
This is pretty much historical outside of some of the far eastern parts

>>2144255
How do you know ? Afaik johan said they won't be there on release

>>2144520
It would be racist if they weren't available

>>2144435
they still aren't.

>>2144520
some youtuber accidentally spilled the beans today

>>2144559
Which ? Could you link it

>>2144393
>he
>post is talking about supporters in general
Cool goalpost shift

>>2144614
Supporters in general don't do it and that is well know by comparing the number of people "supporting" and number of people actually doing something relevant like donating money. That's just a hard fact, at least you had an argument that maybe he supports them in secret (he doesn't) because ultimately that is unknown but the general case is known.

Is this real

>>2144498
The Ottomans didn't conquer this far north lmao

>>2144669
>the leak dropped
>only the Chinese have access to it
What did the CCP military espionage service mean by this

>>2144684
They also didn't do that in 1395

>>2144669
Wtf? Is that american flag?

>>2144685
not a leak
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV132HZzXETF/?buvid=XU048DA00F0CAB1084BAE0CFC768C8FC3DD12&from_spmid=search.search-result.0.0&is_story_h5=false&mid=ekAPqDIgarMXW1xzS4eQXg%3D%3D&p=1&plat_id=116&share_from=ugc&share_medium=android&share_plat=android&share_session_id=dc046681-b89a-4bca-a252-2d6369bf00ab&share_source=COPY&share_tag=s_i&spmid=united.player-video-detail.0.0&timestamp=1757838002&unique_k=L1W0Rc0&up_id=2229752

>>2144714
nice link retard

>>2143134
the fact it isn't 100% a smoking crater makes me like them, funny to see Russia get raped by Russians but more retarded

>>2144715
I just copied from the forums

>>2144669
Looks to have the same pre-load screen as the other Jomini games then. Interesting bookmark choices.

>>2144669
SOVL

>>2144710
Frogniggers took over

>>2144669
Where's the leak?

>>2144669
>focus isn't on india
It's fake dude. Have you not been following the Tinto talks?

>>2144772
You mean Mali

>>2144761
Is here
*Unzips*

>>2144684
Bits of Muscovy, Persia, and bits of Poland are really the only innacurate parts.
>>2144706
As for this, a determined conquerer could easily conquer these lands in that time. As long as the AI doesn't regularly do this, I think it is fine.

>>2144265
>opened a slave market there, which supplies his RPGs
I thought this was set in the 1300s, not modern day

>>2144796
>Bits of Muscovy, Persia, and bits of Poland are really the only innacurate parts.
The Ottomans extending to the Urals was accurate then?

>>2144800
I meant that under Muscovy. I probably should've said Russia.

>dynamic markets
>trains
lol this game is just what Johann wanted Vicky 3 to be isn't it?

>>2144796
RVMAN CALPHATE

>>2144669
>Holland as a suggested starting point
Damn they're saving the best flavor diary for last huh?

>>2144809
There will be a day 1 total conversation mod for 1836-1936 by Bohan Banderson

>>2144669
>All of the comments are poems.
Why are the chinese like this?

>>2144796
>1512-1520 (Selim I)
Just ran riot in 8 years huh.

>>2144824
I do feel like this will be happening yeah. The current systems fit perfectly, and if we can believe their claims it's highly moddable.

If the Ottoman Empire is so great then why couldn't they beat Persia?

>>2144909
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chaldiran

>>2144914
>doesn't end with Ottoman suzerainty over Persia

>>2144820
But of course, Holland will get little bit of everything
>medieval struggle of the codds and hooks
>Burgundian/Habsburg antics
>The reformation
>trade, both in the baltic and overseas
>colonisation
>Late-game threat of revolution

>>2144936
Burgundy stuff won't even happen in this timeline

>>2144936
Can I crash my economy by overdosing on tulips though?

>>2144945
I know, and I am still sad about it
>>2144946
Probably

will i have to get something better than an i5 to play this? i can afford it but i can't really be arsed to upgrade my computer for one game.

>>2142419
>trains
I will now buy your game

>>2144977
Generation matters more than the tier.

i hope we can do this in game.

>>2145025
I feel like it will be necessary to allow Europeans to trade in the far east without requiring a bunch of war, attempted colonization, or the purchase of an unrealistically huge amount of land.

>>2145025
Trading posts do exist, but I think they were only mentioned in the context of Africa

>>2145027
the portuguese also have unique feitora buildings but i don't think they can built in another countries borders but i may be wrong

Hardmode tropical jungle starts seem more interesting now that there are a lot more provinces

>>2145041
I just hope the AI actually bothers colonizing the east indies

>>2144265
My goal shall be running a slave enterprise, ‘transporting’ white girls from Europe to sell them in China and creat the ultimate hapa kingdom

>>2145049
Mercantilism needs to be built into the AI. There needs to be some way to make it desire to hog trade. It would help make everything flow very historically for the period.

I don`t know about you guys, but, if anything, bordergore worries me the most about this game above all else. Almost all the videos/screenshots which depict a game already in progress shows a really ugly map in terms.

I hope the devs will have the time to fix that.

>>2145067
Unless geography becomes very important in warfare, i dont think border gore will go anywhere soon

>>2145067
early eu4 was bad too, its going to take a couple years before they railroad the AI enough to clean up all the OPMs

>>2145077
EU4 is still bad*

>>2145067
Make it so the AI is only allowed to take states and not individual provinces. This would help bordergore in EU4 as well.

>>2145078
nah most empires form like they historically should except russia which usually struggles

>>2144292
Settle down, Ubik

>>2144894
While its popular to think that Selim conquered the levant and Egypt in one war, he essentially just forced the Mamlukes to become subjects of the Sultan that were at various points not very loyal. This would go on until the oriental crisis in the 1830s were the local Bey went apeshit and fought against the sultan, but got fucked up when France and Britain intervened, also sowing the seeds for British control of Egypt. Algeria was a similar case of a subject, but they were far less loyal than the egyptians due to distance, iirc they had accepted ottoman suzerainty because their slave raids were being countered by the rising power of Spain so they needed a protector to avoid getting destroyed. Iirc they were still nominally subjects of the Ottomans when the Americans and then French fucked them in the early 1800s but the Turks couldn't exactly do anything at that point

>>2145087
The world would have been a much better place if the eternal anglo hadn't intervened

I hope they add a coalition system in the revolutionary era that doesn't require AE, instead base if off of the power gap. Stronger than most of europe = coalitions forming regardless of AE

>>2145081
What about Prussia, Qing, Mughals

>>2145087
All correct. One of the later EU4 DLCs added an event chain to make Egypt your subject in one war but they have no autonomy and you can still annex them within a few years.
Subjects in EU4 are just terrible, you're either completely loyal or completely disloyal and supported by all of your overlord's rivals. The default stance should be "I accept you have control over me but I only care about myself and won't help you", that's how you fix vassal swarms.

>>2144894
Most of that was just pushing over the Mamelukes.

>>2145112
>Subjects in EU4 are just terrible
Yeah absolutely, honestly when they made that change to the turks they shouldve imported CK's feudal subject functionalities, separate tags that are bound to you through various laws on how dependent/independent they are, they dont normally join your wars but are forced to levy you troops and taxes, are capable of their own diplomacy and will look to opportunistically screw you over if you get too weak. Wouldve prevented the ridiculous Ottoman vassal swarms and the eventual Byzantine pronoia vassal swarms, wouldve also stopped the HRE privilegia vassal swarm and made the transition into the one tag HRE make sense from a gameplay standpoint, unlike now were not forming it is just better.

if the release gets pushed back i will kill my self and reverse my gaping axe wound bottom surgery forever

>>2145212
Are you gonna grab it and pull it out like a cartoon character?

>>2142975
>nerfs to bailiffs
heard they didn't fix the noble's magic credit card that trivialises the economy.

>>2145067
Nah. Every playthrough should be a different flavour of border gore. How cool would it be if they tried to lean on alt history and just create crazy scenarios that the player has to tackle differently each time, like a super colonial China, americas colonising Europe, anti-christ Pope, etc. But I guess you can achieve that with mods.

>>2145322
Mods will fix it

>>2145349
That would not be cool at all. The entire appeal of map games like this is that they have recognizable and plausible history. There's a reason no one plays with random new world even though it's objective speaking much more new experience every time.

>>2145350
i just want someone to fix it. otherwise the economy is just victoria 3 in disguise

>>2145355
Tell me about Vicky 3 economy

>>2145353
Fighting Giga Austria/Ottomans for the 15th time would not be fun. The only way you can have """plausible""" history in the way of real life 1-1 is to massively railroad/buff select historical countries like in Eu4. That is why Anbennar and Flavour mods are the only true way of enjoying this game.

>>2145356
Problem comes from estates treasury not being able to go negative. Noble estate only raises money through their own taxes which is directly related to their power. In a normal game you are weakening all the esates to centralise control. Now add on the taxes you place on the noble estate they end up having a very small income.

Estates also have to purchase goods for the needs of their members which comes out of their own treasury. Compared to the other estates Nobles purchase many more goods and higher cost luxury goods. Now since they already have a very low income the costs of their needs will quickly put them at a negative net income draining the nobles treasury.

The problem is that once the treasury is empty nothing happens. The treasury can't got negative so they just keep purchasing the goods anyway. The money they use is just created out of thin air and this is directly making your buildings profitable because they are filling the demand.

(cont)

>>2145361
so the meta is just to spam bailifs as it's one of the only sources of creating noble jobs. You create this huge amount of nobles that just have free money that create demand for all sorts of expensive goods which you can fufill making you money.

Other estates create buildings which they directly profit from so it is much harder to get them into negative net income. If you can then it will just turbo charge you economy further.

In game the nobles can easily be spending over 10k ducats a month on goods even though they should have no money. The more nobles you spam the more free money they just spawn into the world.

full details are in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHY9N_Veqd0

>>2145363
So it doesn't even matter unless you're doing an exploit? meh

Listened to a part of Playmaker's Sweden AAR, here is what he talked about:
>Sweden's capital location is pretty bad, better to put it somewhere else in the center of the country (he doesn't understand maritime control though)
>He formed Scandinavia but he didn't conquer that much due to control issues and the fact that most locations there are rather worthless
>Bailiffs are useless except in very few situations
>Roads on the other hand are a lot more powerful, as they don't cost maintenance
>He feels your expansion is a lot more limited until you unlock second tier roads
>Building more cities might be more worthwhile due to their higher control
>Bailiff surrounded by cities in core territory might work
>PUs are pretty much independent, cannot cancel PU diplomatically or through peace deal as they're not your subject
>You cannot conventionally declare war on them, though you can declare on their allies
>Some bug changed all of his laws all of the sudden
>AI Bohemia had 98k ducats when he tagged into them sometime in the 1500s

>>2145364
no because in your normal gameplay nobles will very likely have a negative net income. By centralising power you pretty cut their money making ability by a lot.
Also it's not just an exploit but now you can't even fail in the game by mismanaging the estates. if you mess up and put the estates into debt no matter that's actually going to magically make you more money

>>2145365
>they don't cost maintenance

>>2145368
>inventing horse and carriage license plates and registration to afford your road maintainence costs

>>2145363
>nobles earning 300 ducats per month at 50% tax
>buying 10,000 ducats worth of luxury goods every month paid for by infinite shadow credit
lmao holy shit, how will johan fix this?

>>2145359
You say that but that's the reason people play EU4 and why it's successful. Seethers never understand that their fantasies are not fun in real life.

>>2145375
if nobles have no money they should spend the peasent estates money. if the peasents run out of money then it results in massive population decline through starvation and massive revolt collapsing your failed nation

>>2145378
Peasants don't have money either, the same thing applies to them. It's just that nobles are the most visible example of the system.

>>2145379
>Peasants don't have money either
then the country should collapse like i said. mass starvation and mass revolt when the peasent estate has an empty treasury and negative income

>>2145380
That's not in the game, frankly speaking the devs can't balance the economy to not doomspiral so it's better that it's like this.

>>2145382
i think the magic credit card is a terrible band-aid and there should be an actual economic fail state in the game
we also don't know what happens when you run a game to the 1800s where the world economy is worth 40 trillion dollars with 98% of it being demand for goods that is paid from the magic credit card

>>2145384
What you fail to understand that this isn't vicky 2, the economy is for the most part fake. Partly that's just because it's unreasonable for paradox to code it properly and partly it's because paradox is incompetent but mostly it's because that's not the point of the game.

>>2145361
>>2145363
I've been under the assumption that estates magicked up money to pay for needs if they don't have enough and stuff like government buildings is basically free demand (and so free profit for filling it) since some of the early dev diaries. Are other people only realising now or was I wrong and it's only a recent change that it works like this?

>>2145386
Has always been like that but I don't think people internalize that until their favorite youtuber makes a video about it, which I mean is fair enough since they can't play and see it for themselves which is the limit of understand for vast majority of people.

>>2145386
i don't think most people imagined nobles having a 300 ducat income but spending over 10 000 ducats a month on goods for FREE when they first read the dev diary.

the band aid fix may have had good intentions but the consequence is that your economy balloons due to the fake money.

How much tax did the nobles even pay to the crown? Wasn't their whole point majority of the time serving in the military and administration and thus being tax exempt? French revolution ultimately happened because the nobles and clergy refused to pay even a little tax.

>>2145406
Does it matter, give the nobles bunch of privileges if you don't want them to pay taxes.

>>2145372
>oi m8 u got a loicense for that 'orse

>>2145389
Yeah the scale of it is definitely way out of line and needs to be fixed, but a lot of people seemed to have been expecting a proper closed system economy where money is conserved. We've seen that there's plenty of places where money is basically destroyed (e.g. I think estates throw out any money they don't spend at the end of the month, a lot of player expendatures don't go back to the estates ect), if estates weren't essentially able to magic money from thin air there'd be essentially no way to turn a profit from taxation.
And don't get me wrong I'd definitely like to see a economic system with proper modelling of money like that, I'm just suprised by the amount of people who apparently thought it was going to be the case here.

>>2145387
That's a fair point actually. I don't blame most people for not being autistic enough to try and analyse the implications of and even try to math out a game system based on vageuly worded dev diaries. In fact I'd probably commend them for not wasting their time.

>>2145384
>a NOBLE credit card?
>they gave them a NOBLE credit card?
>they had the BALLS to give one of the greatest Estates of all time a NOBLE credit card?

>>2145365
>(he doesn't understand maritime control though)
Is he retarded
He has 0 credibility now

>>2145413
There's lot more of those too, goods are for the most part fake and so are markets. The idea that nobles in Lapland or Romania would have perfect access to both silks and ivory is ridiculous but makes more sense when you consider that this isn't a game about industrialization but about trade. The fact that Northern Swedes make up imaginary Ivory of high price creates trade opportunities that would be hard to simulate otherwise, it's not like those nobles wouldn't want ivory but they just don't have it so they replace it with for instance narwhal bones. For the system to work there would have to be very flexible demands and substitution system for goods that aren't in supply but that wouldn't create so many trade opportunities and would be computationally expensive. The fake economy also prevents things like money moving to the spice islands or China and then being permanently locked in there because of their permanent trade imbalance crashing the world economy. In real life economies can deal with this because everyone uses local floating currency but EU5 uses a global currency and each coin that goes somewhere is always away from someone else (if money was rigid anyhow). It's important to note how rich the estates are in the playmakers example, that's of course reliant on the fact that nobles print money but also demonstrates the problem of how estates lock up money if there wasn't more coming in and would crash the economy.

But then again lot of this is just vicky seethers seething.

>>2145416
It's a figure of speech, they don't have a credit card, they don't go into debt or pay interest. They just get free money if they happen to be out of money forever and as much as they want. Same goes for every other estate too.

>>2145413
>but a lot of people seemed to have been expecting a proper closed system economy where money is conserved [...] I'm just suprised by the amount of people who apparently thought it was going to be the case here.
i mean paradox advertises it as such. see >>2142419
these videos and promo made by youtubers shape people's perception much more than dev diaries from years ago that were always subject to change tm

>>2145416
either the nobles should get angry because they can't afford this year's new iphone or they rob people under them with higher taxes so they can buy what they want. and then in turn those people being robbed should be the ones getting angry. as it works right now no one gets upset and creates unrest since everyone just uses the magic credit card when they can't afford anything

>>2145419
>>>(he doesn't understand maritime control though)
>Is he retarded
How it does work? More ports + more navy / more merchant ships = more maritime control = more proximity?

Why are you still using "project Ceasar" in the OP

>>2145433
because kings never die

>>2145385
>the economy is for the most part fake.
Then why bother simulating it?

>>2145436
So you can make money and have fun interacting with it

>>2145430
Playing devils advocate but at least the promotional material is mainly focusing on the trade and production rather than strictly the taxation/simulated viccy style consumer economy side of things.

>either the nobles should get angry because they can't afford this year's new iphone or they rob people under them with higher taxes
Oh yeah this was the part I had forgot to mention. The impression I got from the dev diaries was that even if you're generating free money through unfillable "fake" demand pops wouldn't be able to fulfil it and end up unhappy, so there'd have to be a balance between driving up prices to milk your pops and keeping them somewhat satisfied. Now it seems like you get to have your cake and eat it too.

>>2145436
Because it still adds to the game and (potentially) makes it more fun. It's not like there's absolutely zero room for middle ground between 'money doesn't exist mana decides everything' and 'economic simulation taken straight from some dudes PhD thesis'. Even if I'd personally prefer something more simulated than what we're getting here it's still a bit improvement in my eyes.

>>2145067
It is worse because we not only have political bordergore now, but also economical bordergore, as well. See >>2142407

>>2145442
from the promotional material the average person is going to get the impression that there is a very deep economy and trade simulation (compared to previous entries) which is all based on goods and pops rather than just abstracted with money.
and then you have every youtuber saying EU5 is like they combined Victoria 2 or 3 with EU4 so it's not hard to see where people got their expectations

the bailiff stuff has already been fixed by making the building employ 200 soldiers instead of nobles you retards
as for the limitless credit card my personal solution would be to let the estates borrow money from each other at the coast of their power e.g. the nobles in a location would borrow the money from the burgers and then transfer 1% of their local power to them.

and besides the fact that the nobles are going broke late game is in fact a great success of economic simulation since that's what happened in real life
the only thing they have to fix is the peasants not being able to buy food when there is a shortage. that should just be fixed by letting the player subsidise the price of food whenever pops starve (and maybe prohibit the export of food temporarily)
That way if you actually want to starve your pops you can do it as well

>>2145445
It has a deep economy and trade simulation compared to EU4 and it is somewhere between vicky 2 and EU4. I don't understand how you go from that to "it's like vicky 2 but even deeper"

>>2145448
>not having a magical credit card is intractable levels of deep simulation

>>2145449
I dunno what you are on about, the economy is semi fake, which is more real than the fully fake EU4 economy but less fake than the mostly real vicky 2 economy. That's what being a mix of something means, you end up in the middle

>>2145451
i've come to understand that you very autistic and can't understand why the average consumer thinks differently then yourself

>>2145452
Average consumer does not think that EU5 has vicky economics, that's just you. The line "EU5 is like they combined Victoria 2 or 3 with EU4" is what average consumer believes the game to be and it's 100% correct.

>>2145447
Perfidious.

>>2145455
see the problem is that the game was actually working correctly (peasants would starve because the food was too pricey) but the fucking faggot playtesters/ytbers complained about it and so they changed it to include the credit card
I fully believe this is something that can be fixed in a better way by release. And even then, doesn't seem like it's actually happening anymore outside of peasant famines again, since they removed the create nobles button.

>>2145456
>produce more food than you consume
>everyone starves because food is expensive
???

The bordergore isn't that bad.

>>2145457
There's lots of demand for food in Africa and America so you have to starve due to the high food prices in the globalized economy of the 1400s.

>>2145457
Yeah that was actually based and something that happened multiple times in history. I mean price gouging still happens to this day

Do you think the chinks have the balls to leak it?

>>2145461
Price gouging happened because of a an underlying shortage, without shortage people will just buy food from someone else and when they are done buying you can't sell yours. Food is a perishable item, people don't buy less food because it's expensive or more food because it's cheap it's food, you eat what you need and then stop and riot if you can't get enough. Not to mention that there are nearly infine food sellers in 1400, this isn't like 2020 globalized economy where there's one supplier of gadget on the planet, vast majority of people worked in agriculture and had some spare food they were constantly looking to trade for items they wanted to. That makes food markets highly competitive.

>>2145465
And food exports become rapidly unprofitable as distances grow.

>>2145460
I thought the economy is based on local markets and trade doesn't influence supply and demand, if you produce a ton of food in a market then its local price will tank even if you're exporting it all

>>2145458
>no big french blob
>Germany and Italy are mostly the same they were at game start
>no big polish blob
VGH kino kino kino
>spain never finished the reconquista
>ukrainian blob/no big russian blob
>scotland still existing
grim grim grimmmmm

>>2145458
I hate the UI. We're in the brown & piss UI era for some reason

>>2145487
Isn't it all placeholder shit?

>>2145488
No

>>2145488
do you honestly believe that? They have placeholders a month before release? They show placeholders in promotional material?

>>2145458
>balkanised Sweden
Kino?

>>2145445
They really aren't lol. There's a reason why when it comes to "deeper sim" the joke is Bohan Banderson day 1 mod or whatever the MEIOU devs will cook up. No one is viewing vanilla's economic sim that deeply, especially with how many people who plan to outright automate it.

>>2145458
the little squiggles in the sahara are stupid

>>2145539
Are those actual locations with pops or just connections?

>>2145541
I assume they're just connections showing the path between oasis

Johan's Brittany game:

So another Saturday morning, and some EU5 Playtesting time.. Yet another Brittany campaign started..

I don't think I like my odds in this battle though..

Of course I betrayed my french overlord 1 day after my levies managed to retreat. 4,000 dead Breton Peasants was enough of a price.

I need to spend my gold on making my capital into a town so I can build some hospitals.

Why hospitals? Well, black death is coming sure, but there are other diseases.. Like a small outbreak of smallpox in 1338...

Having a less than great ruler has some impact in EU5..

There are a lot of good convenience UX in EU5. I do like the shortcuts from the manpower information.

Continuing my Brittany campaign.. Aiming to be a colonial nation, but I am still a fair bit off getting the institutions to unlock open sea exploration.

>>2145552
post this on the forums johan you dimwit

>>2145552
>Spanish colonisation of the Azores
Eeewwwww

>>2145572
Castillian*
Spain doesn't exist :)

>>2145575
same moorish nation

>>2145552
Damn, why is the flag of Brittany so sexy?

>>2145416
lol

>>2145606
Blacked

>>2145464
only if they get their feelings hurt, otherwise they are even more cucked. Basically wait for more Paradox feedback on the East Asia region.

>>2145406
It really depends on the period and place. I know that the Spanish Empire had the "servicio de lanzas" which was a tax for virtually all of the New World nobles, because providing soldiers directly was unfeasible so they just paid for the equivalent of the expenses of a determined number of soldiers. Apparently in England the nobles could pay money instead of providing soldiers as well.

>>2145606
please don't molest the stoats, they have it hard enough as it is

I can't wait to penetrate japan with my bbc (building based country)

>>2145981
I wonder if you sneak in as a bank, how long it will take for the others to notice you aren't like them. I believe there was a real Japanese clan that had a star of David as its emblem...

>>2145468
You thought wrong.

>>2145692
I think chinks will love this as long as Paradox allow them to overthrow the Yuan asap and make Ming the greatest country on Earth

>>2146276
I watched a few chinky videos. The general consensus was that China in general is too powerful to be fun. They enjoy playing Byz or England more.
One described it as "Boring to play but a balm to the soul" that China was so powerful.

What did he mean by this

>>2146286
Kek.

>>2146285
I guess, the Ming really didnt have any notable external threats or internal conflicts for like 150 years until things started to fall apart and the Manchu finally showed up

>>2146289
Also, after what i can gather the most interesting part in chink fictions about ruling China, more or less, is the political intrigue between factions, all the scheming, allying, backstabbing, trying to get anyone agreeing to anything
Ming is notoriously conservative due to the fact that reforms were insanely difficult to implement, and after your death they could role it back right away
One emperor cant even name his favorite son the heir (instead of the first son) because of backslashes from the conservative faction,

>>2143693
Imperator unironically became this game's prototype after the reworks

>>2146289
Who would have guessed that starting out as the strongest possible blob would be uninteresting in a blobbing game. I guess they may be a good pick for one game of some kind of casual WC speedrun if they have any mechanics that help with blobbing (which is somewhat unlikely)

>>2146302
>starting out as the strongest possible blob
The game starts with weak Yuan in charge and it's supposed to implode with the Red Turban Rebellion disaster in a few decades. Plus there's a generic dynastic crisis disaster being a constant threat.
So it looks like they've either made the disasters trivial to avoid or trivial to win.

>>2146309
Even if you go trough the revolt and turn into Ming it's the same, 10 years into the game you are super stable hyper nation and essentially have won the game

>>2146311
Until the 17th century

>>2146326
There's not going to be anything but Ming in the 17th century

>>2142393 (OP)
It's generally accepted knowledge that the biggest problem with these Paradox games is player blobbing. Once you reach a sufficiently huge size the game is no real challenge and you can just zerg rush.

So how would we simulate the real and actual challenges of running a giant Empire at a time of horse/riverine communications- while keeping it fun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYB87C_5kbQ

The Explorer Who Unlocked The World - EU5 Tales of Ambition

He dared to sail where no European had gone before — and changed history forever. Join us for another Tale of Ambition, Our dramatic retellings of Ambitious historical figures. This tale explores the story of Ferdinand Magellan’s audacious quest to circumnavigate the globe, a journey of ambition, betrayal, and discovery that reshaped empires and maps alike.

>>2146328
They've found it out for EU5 which is why the game seems so interesting

>>2146328
Once you have united the map an end game crises based on your religion's apocalypse begins.

>>2146339
How so? Haven't kept up with things much

>>2146357
There is a control mechanic now that is hard to manage. Many content creators after a recent tweak have also been reporting not conquering locations in some cases as they'd be essentially worthless for too long. Paradox also seems to have had a focus on internal management and making it more engaging too. You have many other mechanics to play around with outside mass expansion. The new trade system can allow you to attempt to monopolize a good and/or attempt to fuck around with other nations by manipulating what flows to their country and how expensive it is. Colonization also has a lot of unique features now such as establishing outposts and managing how to populate proper colonies. Lastly, the slave trade is in the game so you can enjoy messing around with all of the things involved with that (they also accurately can start to cause unrest and potential revolts in places with too many of them of the wrong culture).

>>2144800
>anon sees alt-history in a game
>a game focused around alt-history
>anon gets angry

why don't you go and just read historical atlases? You would get all the accuracy you want

>>2146369
>why don't you go and just read historical atlases?
Don't be silly, they are much more unrealistic then alt history.

>>2146371
ottomans blobed hard irl, so them blobing bit more isn't that far fetched

>>2146385
They were at the gates of Vienna and very well could've conquered into Germany. What the consequences of that would be are unknown, but the threat of the Ottomans is often understated. Europeans only really got a true advantageous position in the world around the 1700s.

>>2146365
So gone are the days of
>Keep hitting Exterminate locals button until colonised.

who are the least faggy content creators covering EU5? Zlewikk is cool but who else?

>>2146365
Control doesn't stop blobbing, you just don't get much out of the newly conquered lands but you didn't get anything out of the newly conquered territories before either. It doesn't really do anything to stop blobbing.
If anything it will likely make the problem worse because AI's will suck at blobbing so the "size where no AI can do anything" happens after your first war instead of when you hit 1.5 million army to counter the ottoman 1.2 million men fielded.

>>2146402
Eh, countries often blobbed irl and then failed because of it

>>2146405
No idea why you responded to me like that, did I trigger a bot?
Countries won't fail because they blob, they will fail to blob because they are AI's and the player easily sweeps control aside because their efficient core is already enough to conquer the whole world because the whole world is made of states that don't have control either.

>>2146402
Control affects the unrest and rebel size too, if you conquered half of Asia in 50 years you're getting rebels larger than your levy pool but I'm guessing they'll give hordes special mechanics to combat that. In Europe definitely not

>>2146401
Don't like any of them tbdesu

>>2146414
Rebels are extremely easy to deal with, way easier than EU4 especially when compared to hard blobbing in EU4 where overextension actually forces constant rebellions.

>>2146450
This makes sense. It didn't make sense that rebels in EU4 were pretty much equivalent to full on hostile armies. The real danger will come when a disloyal part of your nation breaks off and declares war on you.

>>2146450
In eu4 the limitation to fighting rebels is a manpower mana pool and when that depletes you can just hire mercs and infinitum because money 70 years in is irrelevant. In eu5 fighting rebels means dead pops so if you're constantly fighting huge stacks of rebels you're killing the economic engine of your nation

>>2146452
>The real danger will come when a disloyal part of your nation breaks off and declares war on you.
This isn't in EU5

>>2146454
>so if you're constantly fighting huge stacks of rebels
You barely fight rebels in EU5. More over this is about blobbing, at worst you will kill foreigners which makes the situation better for you. Like I said rebels are trivial in EU5

>>2146465
Do you have a copy of the game? Playmaker conquered India and parts of China in 50 years as the timmies and his entire nation fell apart from rebels

Another AAR has hit youtube, this time it's a full ottoman campaign ending in 1805
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gaq-IuVlKeE&feature=shared

Looks like expanding will actually be slower and more challenging, unless you play as an autistic blobber that abuses game mechanics.

>>2146477
>conquer 50% of world pop in 50 (fifty) years
>experience rebels
>could have probably handled them on a second attempt
???

>>2146477
>eceleb is shit at game and/or paid to shill and invent falsehoods to promote it
Surprising

>>2146491
He is actually really good at the game and was previously complaining because it was too easy for him when metafagging. Now he finds it a lot more challenging even when doing his typical stuff.

>>2146502
playmaker is a massive faggot complainer so i take whatever he says with a grain of salt. throwback to when he lost a parabellum challenge to a tranny and was upset about it for weeks

>>2146488
He was also playing a horde and those have succession laws so it was all going to break up regardless

>>2146510
>throwback to when he lost a parabellum challenge to a tranny and was upset about it for weeks
to be honest most Anons would be as well

>>2146560
Yes, we know most Anons are also massive faggots.

>>2146411
>did i trigger a bot?
yes anon, there are bots specifically designed to say "countries often blobbed irl". they target you and you only. fucking schizo idiot.

>>2146465
>you barely even fight rebels in eu5
only a paradrone could have such opinions and insights into a game not even released yet. please feel free to share your copy, o mighty one.

>>2146332
>everyone talks about Magellan even when he died like a bitch at the middle of his travel
>nobody talks about Elcano who actually saved his crew while BTFOing tribal warriors left and right and the one who finished what Magellan started
It seems Anglos really don't want to give Spaniards any credit.

>>2146579
>>>>>>>Anglos
they're still upset about the expulsion

>>2146510
>>2146560
I won't be so mad, trannies are autistic and hyperfixated as fuck in all their hobbies. Hell, there is a reason the majority of speedrunners are trannies.

>>2146579
that statue is SOVLFVL

>>2146579
seething dago. you lost history. history is written by anglo GODS.

>>2146579
Guess what the name of the only ship to finish the journey was :^)

>>2146369
>anon says there are only minor inaccuracies in the image
>ask about the really big inaccuracy
>anon gets angry

I, for one, am looking forward to this stupid map when playing as Vembis.

>>2146793
The silhouette on the hidden terrain is sort of weird

>>2146793
why do they do this meme shit?

>>2146793
everything looks too dark

>>2146809
This is the Evil Universalis series now

>>2146799
paradrone try not to complain challenge (impossible)

>>2146799
by "they" do you mean Marco Polo? He just wanted a vacation bro

>>2146830
It feels like the most sensible thing to do in the time period. Better than being a shitty farmer who sits around and does nothing in the same place until death. It would be even more comfy if you found a way to safely bring a family around with you in a caravan. Either this all or being an artist, that one is fun in any time period.

the vicky overhaul mod for this game is going to be so good

>>2146872
>Victoria Universalis vs MEIOU 4.0

>>2146872
personally I'm looking forward to europa universalis v, europa universalis: rome ii

>>2146793
>other countries' name placements are based only on what you can see of them
Kino.

Did silk roadfags really cross through horde territory? How was that not dangerous?

>>2146892
It was the Pax Mongolica. The whole land route from Crimea to Beijing, all the way down to Yunnan and the border with Burma, that was all subject to the great khan.

>>2146892
Kublai Khan used to hand out gold tablets to VIPs that told everyone not to fuck with the person who carried the tablet or the great khan would murder their entire tribe, thats what marco polo used during his travels

>>2146892
It was notoriously dangerous. That's why almost no one went all the way to China, caravanserais were commonplace and promoted and the cities in between became major trade centers, also this >>2146896

>>2146793
I still don't know why Morocco owns that piece of land in Southern Castile. No map I have seen so far from that era has that except this very one.

>>2146902
I just googled "marinids" and the very first picture shows it. from some random unrelated wiki, I guess
Wikipedia says
>1329: The Marinids defeat the Castilians in Algeciras, establishing a foothold in the south of the Iberian peninsula with the hope of reversing the Reconquista.
Apparently they lost it in 1344

>>2146793
bruh why they got marco polo doing a loop de loop like some cartoon

>>2146793
>can see china but not the nile
retarded reddit bait map

>>2146793
why are the colours so dim and dreary

>>2147112
it's just like real life

>>2146793
Are the Livonian Order vassals of the Teutons at the start?

>>2147136
Obviously since the whole differently coloured Livonia has Teutonic Order written over it.

>>2147142
I mean it could have been a bunch of literal who tribal vassals bwo
idk

>>2147136
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flavour-15-25th-of-april-2025-military-orders.1737515/

>The Teutonic Order has several vassals, including the Livonian Order; but also starts at war with Poland and Lithuania - something that is not final, since we’re considering representing this Teutonic-Polish conflicts with a truce, instead, as it was resolved peacefully a few years after the start of our game.

>>2147143
???
The principalities of Livonia are well known. There's no ambiguity for any sort of 'tribal vassals' to exist or be invented in place of the livonian states. Wtf are smoking??

>>2147112
I think the earlier screenshots did have brighter colours. You can see it in the feedback threads.

>>2147151
Speaking of early maps. I still miss the trade one where it looked like space. Even if it doesn't fit the rest of the game, it still looked cool with glowing countries and a black background.

>>2146892
First off hordes weren't some kind of raging barbarians for the most part. In the later days especially their lifestyle did consist of raiding others but that didn't mean they were averse to trade or inhospitable to visitors. It would be more accurate to think of them like Vikings, where the Norse were mostly pastoral herders, traders and fishermen who then engaged in bit or raiding on the side. The same is true for the nomadic hordes, they did do raids but they were mostly just pastoral herders and nomads and loved to trade as well.
Second the big khanates, namely Mongols and then the 4 big successors (Yuan. Golden Horde, Chagatai and Ilkhanate) were very stable and safe for the time period. The implosion of Ilkhanate due to black death killing the rulers was the thing that made travel much more dangerous because instead of having 3 big states that each were more concerned with external enemies and loved trade you now had gorillions of small states each looking to loot what they could. The existence of the stable and large Khanates is the reason why silk road existed because they facilitated the land trade over the northern route into China instead of trough the fragmented southern route trough India. Mongols broke down the trade barriers that existed in that area before their conquests and relentlessly maintained and patrolled the routes to keep trade flowing. Not much a group of bandits could do in the steppe when a caravan went missing, Mongol soldiers would be notified and they would ride them down since there's no where to hide. Unified rules and rulers is great for trade instead of dozens of individual rulers that all want taxes and have different rules on how you need to operate.
There's an anecdote on how a woman could walk with a gold nugget on her head safely from from end to end of the realm which might not literally be true but speaks volumes off how safe the route was in comparison to anywhere else at the time.

Dear Europa Universalis V Development Team,
I am writing to you as a passionate player of the Europa Universalis series, with the desire to express a concern I consider fundamental for the evolution of the game and its historical accuracy.
Throughout history, many civilizations outside of Europe have been pioneers in cultural, scientific, and technological advancements. However, in previous installments such as Europa Universalis IV, there has been a Eurocentric focus that limits the representation of these cultures and their contributions to global progress.
This bias has led to civilizations such as the Arab, Persian, Chinese, or Indian being portrayed as “behind” or “technologically delayed,” despite their leadership in fields like medicine, astronomy, mathematics, and philosophy during key historical periods.
For example, in the year 1300, cities such as Baghdad, Alexandria, or Samarkand were centers of knowledge and culture, while many regions of Europe were still in an earlier stage of development. The technological diffusion in Europa Universalis IV favored Europe, relegating other regions to a secondary role in global progress.
I understand that the Europa Universalis V developers have shown openness to community feedback and have incorporated suggestions during development. Therefore, I would like to propose a review of the technological diffusion system and the representation of non-European civilizations.
Proposals:
1. Review of the technological diffusion system: Allow innovations to originate in any region of the world, not exclusively in Europe, and have them spread more equitably.
2. Accurate representation of non-European civilizations: Highlight the historical achievements of civilizations such as the Arab, Persian, Chinese, and Indian, showing their real influence on global progress.
3. Inclusive historical events and decisions: Include events that reflect key moments in these civilizations and their interactions with other cultures.

>>2147242
be honest
are you satisfied with the number of replies this got in the forums? I thought it was pretty shitty bait but a lot of people ended up responding

>>2147248
i'd never make an account but the replies are indeed astonishing.

>>2147248
The guy who spams reddit and forum posts here isn't the original poster but just a ravenous fan or hater depending on the context.

>>2147248
Sometimes I forget how easily baited people outside of 4chan are. You think 4chan is easy to troll but step outside and it's like you're a plague ship infecting the new world with diseases they've never seen before. We're mired in so much bait that we take our own built-up immunities for granted. Weak shitty bait here can cause a lethal pandemic if released anywhere else.

the original post is clearly bait but some of these replies are unfortunately for real. third worlders really are whiney faggots.

>>2147242
This is well into the period of jeets being subservient cucks, after Islam collapsed, and during the beginning of the Chinese decline. America isn't around for most of the time period and it is all before Japan became a western power. There are literally no powerful countries outside of Europe during this period. Not saying their home advantage against Europeans and relatively stable societies in some cases shouldn't be represented. But this very well is Europe's period in the spotlight.

>>2147279
Well, wouldn't there be pretty significant regional powers in mesoamerica?

lmao

>>2147289
I mean it's objectively the most interesting of those four
Kill russians btw

>>2147283
They were good for their region. I feel like places outside of Europe should have a focus on this, dominating their neighbors and such. Also, if you decide to form an overseas empire outside Europe, it definitely should spread to your neighbors too slowly and essentially send your region down a similar path to Europe. It is pretty stupid that if the player does something profound, it doesn't have much ripple effects.

>>2147279
>Islam collapsed
You mean the very same period that saw the Islamic gunpowder empires flourish?

>>2147289
Hell yeah I get to see Merya pops they added in detail

>>2147333
Just say rise of the Ottomans. And yes it's called a gunpowder empire because the only thing that ever gave it any relevancy was being an early adopter of gunpowder. They tried and failed to go toe to toe against even minor western-adjacent powers.

>>2147252
You mean the guy who posts dev diaries? He's probably a PDX employee of sorts
no bully he's just doing his job

>>2147363
They're "gunpowder empires" because the centralized nature of producing firearms allowed the states to gain a strong monopoly on force, which let them become very centralized and efficient. It had nothing to do with a tech advantage in battle, this isn't civ where you upgrade to gun units and gain +5 attack.

in the opposite sense, Ming had equal or superior technology to the rest of the world in most respects, but they were so decentralized they couldn't even defeat some shitty pirates in their own land for years. They had the same firearms as Europeans (originally made by Europeans) but fielded spearmanii wielding bamboo as weapons. Because they couldn't produce enough guns and the ones they did make were trash and exploded all the time, because it was all outsourced locally.

All that is to say, the strong centralized state is the real winner of EU time period and the islamic world went through the same transformation there.

>>2147333
What flourishing lol? All these "Gunpowder Empires" did was fill power vacuums.

>>2147386
>He's probably a PDX employee of sorts
Nah, that's Johan himself

>>2147386
No I mean the guy the post my post quoted quoted. You know the forum spam post 3 posts above mine? Are you retarded.

>>2147391
Didn't the Ming solve this by allowing their regional governors to finally levy troops which ultimately caused their downfall as this created the warlords? Or was that a later dynasty?

>>2147408
Other dynasties did that, going all the way back to the Han. Usually the chain of events goes like
>peasants rebel
>governors are empowered to put them down
>governors become warlords
>warlords kill the dynasty
The Ming didn't do this, but that meant they died at step 1, Li Zicheng's peasant revolt just ended them.
The Qing created its own warlords to survive the Taiping Rebellion and other stuff, but was ended afterwards at their hands (mainly Yuan Shikai)

>>2147289
>lolbert being a faggot
he doesnt have anything else going on in his life apparently

Was there a tinto talks on the hussite wars?

>>2147289
One of the last few fags on xitter unironically still having pronouns in his bio

Is this a female

>>2147408
Han and Tang did that and probably other dynasties as well.

>>2147296
Disregard my post I'm trans btw

>>2147458
this is how actual gamer grils look like yes

>>2147458
they got mustaches bro

>>2147458
Would, if female

>>2147386
Yea who's the guy that continually posts eu5 Dev diaries every single time without fail? It must be a paradox community manager. They want the chuds to play.

>>2147544
>They want the chuds to play
That's pretty much the only demography of EU games

How could johan putler force /ourguy/ lambert to change his signature? we can't let him get away with this blatant ukrainephobia.

>>2147575
This is the long term effect of all of the Ukrainian nationalist posts that flooded places like Steam 2-3 years ago.

>>2147289
Malikings...

>>2147604
That's Malikangz to you, whitey

Stop being an annoying faggot and leak the game already Lambert. It is all you are good for.

>>2147575
KWAB.

Anyone know if there will be a map replay function like in eu4?

>>2147769
not on launch

>>2147769
on launch

>>2147769
maybe on launch

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/developer-diary-4-discovery.1859234/

Developer Diary #4 - Discovery

Welcome back to another exciting development diary for Europa Universalis V. This week, we’ll be diving into one of the most iconic and transformative aspects of the era: exploration and colonization. From the first daring expeditions into the unknown seas, to the rise of sprawling colonial empires and global trade networks, this system aims to capture the ambition, risks, and rewards of charting the wider world.

Between the 15th and 19th centuries, nations across the globe set sail in search of wealth and opportunity. Driven by the hunger for exotic goods like spices, gold, furs, and sugar, these voyages reshaped the balance of power and laid the foundation for the first global economy. In EU5, we want players to feel that same pull of discovery and ambition as they expand their horizons beyond their home markets and feel the risks and rewards associated with it.

With the pop and character systems, exploration and colonization in Europa Universalis V reaches a new level of depth and immersion. From who leads your expeditions, choosing which states will populate your new colonies, choosing which locations you own directly and which you will let a new colonial nation control, and eventually the trade between your colonies and your homeland, will shape your nation’s long term fortunes.

Castile into Spain playthrough with New World Domination in the the early 1700s

Exploration

Exploration in EU5 is about more than simply revealing the map, it’s about opportunity, ambition, and risk management. The ability to explore depends on your nation’s technological advances, maritime presence, characters, and pops. An advanced sea-farring nation will be able to chart safer, faster, and more ambitious expeditions, while reckless adventurers may risk lives and resources in pursuit of glory.

Exploration and colonization are part of the new geopolitical tab in EU5. It's in this page that you can see all possible explorations, all ongoing colonizations, and all possible places you can settle. This page also tells you your colonial range, the value that determines how far you can explore and colonize.

Exploration of Portugal in 1501 in the Geopolitics page

Colonial range has a base value of 1000 then gets increased by advances, some of these advances are unique to some nations such as Portugal however any nation can explore and colonize in EU5, mainly after the age of discovery and embracement of the New World institution. The higher your colonial range value, the further you can explore and the further you can colonize.

The Oversea Exploration advance, available in the Age of discovery, increases colonial range by 1500 and allows open sea exploration

To do an exploration you can select a variety of locations determined by your colonial range and your closest port, including ports owned by subjects and allies. You then choose the port in which the exploration voyage launches from and assign a character to undertake the exploration. All types of exploration have an initial cost in ducats and either sailors or manpower depending if the exploration is on sea or land.

Exploring the Gulf of Mexico will have an initial cost in ducats and sailors to begin.

Once you choose the place you want to explore, a character to lead the expedition needs to be selected. This character is taken from your nation’s pool of characters but can also be historical explorers such as Columbus or Magellan, acquired through events. After that the voyage will need to be prepared, requiring materials to be able to set sail such as lumber, naval supplies and liquor. Without the proper resources, the exploration preparation will halt, stopping until the proper resources are available in the market in which exploration is setting sail from.

The required goods needed to begin the exploration to the Gulf of Mexico

Once your nation has prepared an expedition, the voyage will set sail into the unknown. The exploration’s duration depends on two main factors:

Distance of the exploration compared to your nation’s naval range. Naval range increases with advances such as the Naval Ambitions advance in the Age of Discovery.

Terrain of the region being explored, whether its harsh open seas, coastal waters, or rugged inland areas.

The time it takes to complete an exploration action is then calculated by comparing the total exploration cost against your nation’s monthly Exploration Progress. By default, exploration progress begins at 0.05 per month, but it increases with advances, government reforms and the skill of your explorer. During the Age of Discovery, nations also benefit from a flat +0.25 exploration progress, reflecting the surge of ambition that fueled early voyages of discovery.

Exploration Progress of Exploring the Gulf of Mexico as Portugal in 1501

Modifiers for all nations during the Age of Discovery. For nations with colonial ambitions, this would be the age to start your colonial empire

Exploration is never without risk. While an expedition is underway, a variety of events can occur that influence its progress. These can range from favorable winds and unexpected discoveries that speed up exploration, to storms, or disease that will slow the exploration.

In the most severe cases, explorations may suffer devastating setbacks. An explorer might perish, or the voyage could fail entirely, forcing you to reconsider its plans for overseas expansion.

But the consequences of these events are not confined to the expedition alone. They can ripple back home, shaping the societal values of your nation. These events might inspire curiosity, ambition, or even religious zeal, while disasters can sow caution, disillusionment, or resistance to further overseas ventures.

An exploration event while exploring the Indian Horn as Portugal

Don’t trust the Seagulls

Unlike EU4, new terrain is not discovered until the exploration is completed and the voyagers are back home. Giving access to new explorations and in the case of land being explored, new access to colonization opportunities.

This system ensures that exploration in EU5 is not just about sending out ships. It’s about timing, preparation, and weighing risks against rewards. Choosing when to explore, the level of characters you send out to do your voyages and how much of your nation’s resources to dedicate to it, will shape the speed at which you uncover the wider world.

Colonization

With new lands discovered, the next step is establishing colonies. Through the Colonization Tab in the Geopolitics Page, you can review all potential colonial charters available to your nation. Any uncolonized territory within your colonial range can be targeted for settlement, provided you have the ducats to start the colonial charter and ducats to maintain it. Colonial charters are done on a provincial level, with a colonial charter completing when every location is fully colonized in any given province.

Available Colonial Charters for Portugal in 1509, each new colonial charter will cost 200 ducats to start and have a monthly maintenance cost depending on how many colonial charters are active.

Colonization, however, is no simple undertaking. It is a process that is both costly and time-consuming, demanding that pops from your homeland uproot their lives and migrate to distant frontiers. When setting up a colonial charter, you choose which province these new settlers will come from.

Pops from Portugal leave to find new opportunities in the colonies. Those fools….

The difficulty of colonization varies greatly depending on the land itself. Regions with dense native populations will require far more time and investment to claim compared to sparsely inhabited areas. Similarly, location modifiers such as harsh climates, limited arable land, or the presence of diseases like malaria, will slow colonial progress and increase the risks for settlers.

You can also increase the speed in which you colonize by increasing your Colonial Migration. Colonial Migration determines how many pops leave from your homelands to settle in your colonial charters. This value can be increased by advances in technology, laws, government reforms, having more outward societal value and increasing Maritime Presence in the region in which you are sending settlers from. But it also can be decreased by distance from the region you are sending settlers from and having more inward societal value. The Outward vs Inward Societal value bar gets activated in the Age of Discovery.

Monthly Migration to a colonial charter as Portugal in 1509

Outward Societal Value

Inward Societal Value

In Europa Universalis V, colonization is a serious investment of ducats, pops, and time. And like any investment, it carries risk: the rewards of overseas expansion may take decades, or even centuries, to fully materialize.

Resources in EU5 are fixed and tied to each location (outside of the unique historical situation of the Columbian Exchange). This means that every settlement decision matters. Choosing where to start colonial charters can be guided by the Resource Gathering Operation (RGO) available in any given location. Whether it produces furs, sugar, gold, silver, cocoa or other valuable goods; prioritizing high-value locations can give your nation a significant long-term advantage.

This system naturally encourages patterns of historical colonization. Regions rich in resources are likely to become hotspots of competition, while less valuable lands may remain untouched until later centuries. Investing early also gives certain nations powerful advantages: for example, Portugal can establish its foothold in Brazil for its gold and gems, while Spain may choose to push aggressively into Mesoamerica to seize its wealth.

RGOs of Brazil

RGOs of MesoAmerica

Founding a colonial charter in Europa Universalis V does not instantly grant exclusive ownership of a territory. Instead, multiple nations can target the same province, creating a colonial race where rival powers compete to establish dominance. Locations within a contested charter may be divided among competing colonizers.

Victory in this race comes down to the nation being able to send the largest number of pops to the province of the colonial charter first. The first will eventually secure control and complete the colonial charter; however, the story does not end there. Pops sent by rival colonizers are not erased, they remain in the settled colony, contributing to its growth and character.

This means colonies that were contested during their founding may end up with a diverse and multi-ethnic population, shaped by the contributions of multiple nations. Such diversity can lead to unique opportunities and challenges. This also means contesting a charter later than others can lead to lost pops in control of another nation.

Portugal and the Papal States compete to colonize the province of Temne with Papal states getting a head start due to starting their charter first. But with Portugal's current colonial migration, they may come out on top

That's going to be one ethnically diverse province

This colonial competition can come to a head for Catholic nations during the Age of Discovery, triggering one of history’s most famous compromises: the Treaty of Todesillas.

This situation can be triggered once two competing Catholic nations in the new world begin completing colonial charters in the Age of Discovery. When this happens, a dynamic situation fires where both nations may petition the Pope to arbitrate the dispute. By leveraging influence within the Church, each colonizer can attempt to secure exclusive claims to vast swaths of territory overseas.

Importantly, this event is not locked to history. While Spain and Portugal famously divided the world in our timeline, your campaign might see entirely different outcomes. If, for example, France and Portugal are the leading Catholic colonizers, the situation could result in the Treaty of Lisboa, the Treaty of Havana, or another name tied to the powers involved.

In this campaign, its Sweden and Portugal who are divvying up the New World

In order for a colonial charter to complete, at least 1000 pops must be present in every location in the charter and you need 36% of the pops in every location to be either your primary culture or an accepted culture and 36% of the pops to be your nation’s religion. That means a location with 20000 natives will take much longer than a location with 200 natives to colonize. When the location is colonized, those natives will become tribesmen pops, a pop class that's harder to promote compared to peasants.

When a colonial charter is completed, the new lands officially come under your nation’s authority but what you do with them is entirely up to you. EUV offers several options for how to manage freshly colonized territories, each with its own strategic implications:

Create a New Colonial Subject – Establish a semi-autonomous entity that governs the territory on your behalf. If the region has low market access, this also creates a new market, helping the colony develop economically.

Play as the Colonial Subject – Step into the shoes of your new colony, guiding its growth and carving out a unique destiny separate from its mother country. Similar to the first option, if market access is low, a new market center is created.

Integrate into an Existing Colonial Subject – If the new province borders one of your existing colonial subjects, you may fold it into their domain, strengthening and consolidating their power.

Retain Direct Control – Keep the land as part of your core empire, allowing you to exploit its resources directly but also requiring more active management and of course less control.

Colonial subjects in EU5 are not restricted to the New World. They can be established anywhere across the globe reflecting the truly global reach of empire-building during this era.

The choice is yours…

Depending on where you colonize, sending pops to your newly established colonies may be necessary to fully utilize the resources there. You can do this through the Send People to the Colonies cabinet action, unlocked as an advance in the Age of Discovery.

In fertile but barely populated locations, population growth will be faster than back at home, leading to huge population growth opportunities that you can also increase with the settlement building. This building is not limited to colonies but requires a location to have below 5% population capacity, a requirement that will be more prevalent in new world locations.

>>2147961
I was about to say it is so over but then I remembered that this isn't actually that far off from irl. If they had just won a war against England they could've had this.

Settlements are great for population growth in newly created colonies; however once the location goes above 5% population capacity, this building is automatically deleted

Every nation can colonize in EU5, whether you are playing as Portugal or the Shogun of Ashikaga, the option and opportunity is there. If you find AI non European countries colonizing to be immersion breaking you can set AI colonization to only European nations in the game rules when starting a campaign. This does not impact achievement eligibility.
Colonial Subjects and Colonial Trade
Deciding whether to directly control newly colonized land or to establish it as a colonial subject is a fundamental strategic choice in EUV. Both approaches carry benefits and trade-offs, shaping not only your empire’s strength but also its stability.

Directly controlling grants your nation full sovereignty over their resources and output. However, distance comes at a cost: far-flung provinces are harder to control. Direct rule is best reserved for strategically vital locations or compact colonial holdings.

Creating a subject places authority in the hands of a local colonial government, which operates with its own national capital closer to the territory. This alleviates the burden of direct administration while still ensuring your empire benefits from its colonies. Overlords can directly build buildings and roads in their colonial subjects, and can increase their RGO levels. Directly investing in their colony to not only increase their colony’s wealth but the overlord’s as well.

Viceroyalty of Brazil in a Portuguese Campaign in 1510

Colonial subjects provide their overlord with the following contributions:

2.5% of monthly income from all sources.
Monthly manpower and sailors to reinforce your armies and fleets.
33% of their trade advantage and trade capacity, representing the integration of their markets into your own. (Can be increased by an additional 50% at the cost of 33% subject loyalty).
Loyal colonial subjects will join all offensive and defensive wars of their overlord.
Access to actions such as siphon income and press sailors, giving short boosts of ducats or sailors.

Colonial subjects are not passive entities, either. They possess their own Cabinet and can enact cabinet actions, focusing on local development and control. This makes them semi-autonomous partners within your empire. Useful allies, but also potential rivals if their loyalty is strained.

Although the market of Anace is owned by Portugal’s Colonial Subject, Portugal can still extract their gold and gems to their own home market.

With the new interconnected systems at play in EUV, development in the New World is designed to be a gradual and organic process. Colonies do not instantly transform into bustling cities or economic hubs. Instead, growth unfolds over time, shaped by when and where colonization begins.
Regions that are colonized early will naturally develop earlier, gaining population, infrastructure, and trade connections before their later-settled counterparts. This reflects the historical pace of change, where the earliest colonial footholds became centers of wealth and power, while more remote or less desirable lands lagged behind until much later.

As your campaign progresses, you will see the world evolve dynamically, with colonial regions rising and falling in importance, just as they did historically. Your decisions on where to invest first will leave a lasting mark on the geopolitical and economic landscape for centuries to come.

Development of Americas in 1337

Development of the Americas in a England to Great Britain campaign with Great Britain, Spain, France and Portugal colonizing in 1762

That's all for today! Don't Forget you can Pre-Purchase Europa Universals V now
And don't forget to follow us on social media !

Until Next time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eedDh0uiFx0

A world of possibilities, voyages of discovery, New World trade goods, and building colonial empires that will reshape the globe — let’s set sail with Exploration and Colonization in Europa Universalis V!

In this official feature video, we dive deep into how EU5’s exploration mechanics transform uncharted waters and unknown continents into opportunities for ambition and empire:

Voyages of Discovery: Fund expeditions, recruit explorers like Columbus or Magellan, and brave the unknown to reveal new lands, markets, and rivals.
Colonial Ambition: Settle new worlds by investing pops, gold, and time — but beware of disease, indigenous resistance, and rival powers.
Global Trade Revolution: Control new goods like sugar and tobacco to fuel your economy — but risk pop discontent if demand outstrips supply.
Nation-Specific Challenges: Coastal powers like Portugal excel, while landlocked realms like Austria must innovate to compete.

From charting coastlines to managing colonial crises, every decision echoes across your empire. Will you dominate the Age of Discovery—or be left behind?

This looks fine

So, am I getting this right, the goods are not dynamic? The chilli peppers will not start being cultivated throughout the whole world within 50 years after their discovery, they will be grown only in Mexico throughout the entire game?

>>2148015
There's that Columbian Exchange event to share crops around isn't there?

>>2148018
yes there is. there also already exists a screencap where a play tester exchanged all existing Irish goods for potatoes

>>2148015
>This means that the raw material in the selected location will be changed to the new one, opening up a different economic gameplay loop, allowing you to plant highly demanded goods in the New World, which could be exploited via Plantations and Slaves, while also allowing the plantation of goods such as Potatoes in Europe. An important thing: we've investigated the actual spread of each trade good that can be exchanged, so you can only grow its accurate geographical distribution, which also takes into account the terrain features (climate, vegetation, and topography) - meaning, you can't plant Rice in the Alps, nor Wine in certain climates.

Holy kino. Johan has saved grand strategy gaming again. How does he do it?

>>2147978
>1510
by then in actual real life history Portugal did not have a single settlement in the New World

>>2148036
You're right, they had a lot more.

>>2148038
they had literally 0 towns
they had one or two feitorias
they had probably less than 20 Portuguese people all over Brazil

>>2147973
It is a little dumb that these colonial charters can't be divided up between countries but oh well. It's hard to find concrete examples of such situations, you had some countries like Scotlands and the Netherlands attempting to make small city-sized colonies but they either got conquered or wiped off by natives/diseases

>can limit colonization to the europeans
holy based johan I apologize for mocking your piracy = paedophilia tirade

>>2147974
>King Achmed Ali

>>2147978
>If you find AI non European countries colonizing to be immersion breaking you can set AI colonization to only European nations in the game rules when starting a campaign. This does not impact achievement eligibility.
BASED

>>2147769
in the fullness of time

>>2148038
>they had a lot more
In Africa and India? Yes. In America? lol no

>>2147977
Not only could they have that, if the armada never sunk they could've toppled the weak Wanli emperor and replaced the dying Ming with a Spanish Catholic dynasty. VGH what could've been...

>>2148173
>Turko-Castilian war for Astrakhan
>Ottoman-Safavid-Mughal triple alliance versus the Iberian union
vgh...

>>2148173
>We couldn't find Prester John in the east so we'll make him
Kino timeline

>>2148173
>and mestijaze
Now I'm interested

>>2148173
Anglos really did put us on the worst timeline possible any chance they could.

>>2147989
>english colony in canada/new england
>called the Colony of Sipeknekatik in prominent text
yeah not doing this, 80% of why I play eu4 is for the north american colonial larp.
this would only be redeemable if you can change the names after genociding the locals

>>2148173
this "plan" was never real, God I hate redditors

>>2148307
Can you change goods back to old world stuff or are you permanently stuck with taters?

>>2148285
Yeah, we need proper English names for colonies, like Massachusetts

>>2148242
>We could have a word full of cute spanish-chinese hapa women ready to take BWC
>Instead we got niggers and pajeets everywhere because anglos decided to conquer areas with billions of subhumans

>>2148294
>the default name of a colonial nation is the name of the province capital
Literally why. That's somehow even worse than EU4's [adjective] [region] shit. At least in EU4 you can mod in custom default names based on culture/location.

>>2148313
>At least in EU4 you can mod in custom default names based on culture/location.
I'm sure there will be an equivalent to rename provinces based on the colonizer's culture

>>2148314
Not the provinces, the colonial nation.

>>2148316
and colonial nation names are based on the province that hosts the capital
so once there is a dynamic renaming of provinces based on culture the issue will be resolved completely.
Or you could take 5 seconds to rename the nation yourself.

>>2148313
It makes more sense honestly than random names that may have or may have not existed yet. Calling a country by its capital isn't too weird.

>>2148317
>so once there is a dynamic renaming of provinces based on culture the issue will be resolved completely
I don't have high hopes for this. even eu4 with like 1/5th the province count only renames a few colonial provinces, the vast majority keep their 16 character long name of Pekuakamiulnuatsh or whatever

>>2148321
Hopefully every culture has their dedicated autistic person making names for every possible colonial province.

>>2148321
>>2148322
Just put an AI into the game that automatically translates

>>2148329
kill yourself

>>2148389
I did not need to see that

>>2148389
>One proud cuck
No thanks

>>2148410
>One proud
?

>>2148173
Lmao what a fucking meme
Everyone trying to rule China got converted into chinks out of necessary instead, cause there were trillions of them with 2000 years of civilization not some backward barbarians
Unless you want daily rebellions, getting no resources and only increasing upkeep cost for the occupation army that would bankrupt you nation
Most nations were doing the smart choice near the end of Qing, aka exploiting chinks via trade instead of directly ruling over them
The moment Japan invaded China, the war also became a black hole of resources for the Jap while they could barely get any benefit out of it

>>2148437
One Proud Bavarian. CK3(?) Youtuber who branched out to the other PDX games. For Vic 3 he was the bad news messenger who'd "come up" with ideas or theories that were dogshit to soften the blow later on when those theories turned out to be reality as people would already have debated shit to death and would be worn out with less immediate outcry. I'm guessing that's what that anon was referring to but I don't follow any of the "content creators" so I wouldn't know and he may literally be a cuck or something.

>>2148497
lmao that swarthy ass nigga is bavarian?

>>2148527
No, OPB is the balding chud in the video.

>>2148527
The swarthy guy is half Tunisian and I think the other half is English

>>2148444
>Everyone trying to rule China got converted into chinks out of necessary instead, cause there were trillions of them with 2000 years of civilization not some backward barbarians
>turns all of them catholic
>forces them all to adopt a spanish last name
>changes the average Han rapebaby phenotype into a Swarthy-Chink phenotype
Chinks would have gotten btfo'd

>>2148527
he isn't that dark

I heard they said they'll be able to post videos soon

>>2148562
Chinks were nearly losing to the Japanese too before they had to suddenly defend 4-5 different fronts at once. The only reason it seems like conquerers get converted to chink is because the examples were all mongoloid hordes that viewed Chinese culture as the higher one to adopt. China isn't really that resilient.

unlike europe and india china always eventually congregated into a single entity so yeah I dont think conquering parts of it would last for long

>>2148444
This all applies to the Manchu as well yet they successfully conquered and ruled for centuries.
>Unless you want daily rebellions, getting no resources and only increasing upkeep cost for the occupation army that would bankrupt you nation
This was happening to the Ming too. constant rebellions, inability to raise a proper army, no control over anything outside the capital. To the point they couldn't even secure themselves against random pirates and bandits. Which is why the invasion would've been so easy. (and was, once the capital finally got invaded by Li Zicheng)

Also the plan was to keep the Chinese imperial system in place, with the bureaucracy and all. So they agreed with you that the Chinese system would endure, but they'd still be able to rule it and that's all they wanted. That and evangelism, which was also already working. Christianity had spread very successfully in China at that point.

>aka exploiting chinks via trade instead of directly ruling over them
A lot easier to do when you directly control all the ports and canals plus have the legal rights to all trade policy AND all the ministers and customs personnel are on your payroll.

Keep in mind that part of this invasion actually did happen in real life, the Japanese landing in Korea, which was the Imjin War, and even fighting all by themselves the Japanese managed a stalemate. If the iberians actually got involved in a coordinated fashion, with the Ningxia rebellion happening at the same time, it could've seriously been the end. The Ming dynasty already had one foot in the grave at this point even without such invasions.

>>2148444
japs didn't do it for economic gain they wanted to wipe out chinks and create a nippon ethnostate on the china mainland inb4 src.

>>2148580
China is called a paper tiger for a reason.

>>2148579
Personally I think we would've gotten another kino "Northern and Southern" period, where the south is Sino-Spanish featuring remnants of the Ming alongside imported Catholicism, while the north is Manchu land where they cut your head off for not wearing the queue. Eventually the Spanish go bankrupt and are forced into retreat, but their influence remains. Then the south industrializes first and we have a reverse USA situation where the North gets btfo in a later civil war.

>>2148580
On the topic of China and christianity it reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Rites_controversy which I found kind of funny
>1692
>"The Europeans are very quiet; they do not excite any disturbances in the provinces, they do no harm to anyone, they commit no crimes, and their doctrine has nothing in common with that of the false sects in the empire, nor has it any tendency to excite sedition ... We decide therefore that all temples dedicated to the Lord of heaven, in whatever place they may be found, ought to be preserved, and that it may be permitted to all who wish to worship this God to enter these temples, offer him incense, and perform the ceremonies practiced according to ancient custom by the Christians. Therefore let no one henceforth offer them any opposition."
>1715
>Pope issues a bull forbidding chinese catholics from taking part in traditional chinese customs that could be interpreted as heathen
>1721
>"Reading this proclamation, I have concluded that the Westerners are petty indeed. It is impossible to reason with them because they do not understand larger issues as we understand them in China. There is not a single Westerner versed in Chinese works, and their remarks are often incredible and ridiculous. To judge from this proclamation, their religion is no different from other small, bigoted sects of Buddhism or Taoism. I have never seen a document which contains so much nonsense. From now on, Westerners should not be allowed to preach in China, to avoid further trouble."

>>2148592
The Christian strain of autism, where everyone else has to stop liking what you don't like, is so utterly devastating but hilarious sometimes
It really has been there from the start, from little bishops backstabbing each other over technicalities, to having stupid lore arguments about shit like prospons, all the way to murdering 60 trillion fellow christians in the 30 years war, and even today where one sect of larpers on /his/ thinks another larper sect are the devil or whatever.

Imagine being a Jesuit in China and learning the pope is such a sperg he just gave the chinese people a command to dishonor the emperor, in writing, and really thought this would work

Leaked build saars?

>>2148604
sent :)

>>2148604
Counter strike

Spanish China might just be my first campaign now.

Geographically and politically speaking, Islamic China was much more historically plausible than Christian China, at least in the first millennium.

Speaking of China, will Paradox release this as DLC?

>>2148854
>the religion that you got BTFO by when you had reach in Central Asia and then basically had no contact with outside of trade
Or
>the religion that actually entered your territory several times and had to be dealt with

>>2148868
The millions of Hui Muslims didn't have contact with their overlords?

>>2148890
traders

>>2148444
>Everyone trying to rule China got converted into chinks out of necessary instead
They said the same shit with Egypt then Romans BTFO them so hard they converted the region into a mere province of their empire.. And Castilians were the closest thing to the Romans in the medieval era.

>>2148922
>Castilians were the closest thing to the Romans in the medieval era.

>>2148924
Yes, because byzantines were greek larpers.

>>2148854
>Islamic China was much more historically plausible than Christian China
What is Nestorianism?

>>2148926
a meme

>>2148927
cope

>>2148855
why am i suddenly seeing this everywhere? which AAR gaytuber mentioned it?

>>2148173
>>2148855
The hilarious thing is, the Spaniards actually wanted to conquer China just for the possibility of having an easter front to attack the Ottomans.

>>2148930
epic reddit post with HUGE upvotes saar

>>2148932
yes

>>2148922
>>2148924
>>2148925
>>2148926
The chinks already got conquered by pajeets, billions of them are buddhist, they worship a jeet

>>2148855
>>2148931
>>2148934
Why were eurosissies so scared of the ottomans?

>>2148939
honestly the second worst fate of a civilization, right after worshipping a pedophile warlord

the only good content creators will be zlewwik and florry. everyone else is riding coattails.

>>2148934
While this post is good, it doesn't change my mind. Reddit should still be banned.

>>2148939
Nah, the majority of them are animists who believe in weird ass spirits and backward traditions, not even kidding

Speaking of ottomans, do we know if they will have a dedicated decadence mechanic like they had in EU4? I don't think I've read anything about it in the tinto flavor post.

>>2148954
I hope the game systems will lead to it happening. Maybe have Muslim AI get extra decadent when they are successful for too long too.