Thread 17971942

>is correct about literally everything
fucking crazy how there were either complete retards or intentionally evil grifters claiming free trade was a good thing for everyone

>>17971942 (OP)
America doesn't deserve someone like him as their president

the election was rigged

This is why Japan dominates the electronics industry, because they don't just casually expose their goods to free trade.

>>17973057
it's crazy npr is only now admitting that free trade harms people

>>17971942 (OP)
>is a rich businessman
>says that globalism will benefit the rich businessmen and destory the working American middle class
>entire media portrays him as a crazy country bumkin
>America votes for an actual crazy country bumkin who supports NAFTA and proves all of this guys warning right
Seriously, why do people claim Democracy is so great?

This guy had massive support in polling, partly because he bought infomercials and plugged them during interviews.
Then he shut down his campaign.
He came back and said Bush had threatened to blackmail him by making fake photos of his daughter. He said this right next to Bush at a debate. But his numbers never recovered from his hiatus. Great youtub vid by a guy. Search it, give him some likes.

>>17973057
The Yen is fubar and the locals salaries and wages have further stagnated.

>>17971942 (OP)
There's a very real world where him and/or early 00s Trump became president, and it would have been better. Either going along the technocratic reformist route they wanted or the paleocon route proposed by Buchanan that would've seen the U.S take out Cuba and NK and compete with China early on would've been way, way better for everyone.

>>17973295
Bush was a blue blood from Massachusetts.
Peros' family had some money but were very frugal and he was pretty much self made.

>>17973499
>Bush
He was talking about Clinton (though tbf there's barely anything different about them apart from weird subtle stuff like Russia).

>>17973489
Don't forget he went to either the Urban League or NAACP and did the whole "you people" gaffe.

Bush and Clinton painted him as an out of touch, corporate tower, racist after that.

>>17973519
>gaffe
I've increasingly become convinced after a fucking decade of Trump that gaffes have no real bearing on elections and the idea of gaffes deciding elections comes from media companies and journalists huffing their own farts. It's always stuff that's either a cover for stuff more malicious about the candidate/figure or an attempt to paper over more serious concerns that are politically inconvenient for the powers that be.

>>17973534
Trump is different in that he's always been that way and also as much of a media mogul as a businessman.
But mainly things were much different before the internet. Although television and publications were more diverse and had more independent thinkers back then compared to now. It was still a massive corral tightly held by the corpos. Perots infomercials helped with that. Trumps first election seems to have co-incided with the high point of internet free speech. It certainly is not even the same now. After such a short time.

>>17973489
>>17973519
At the VP debate his running mate (who was a Korean War vet) was painted as being old and senile, especially since Gore and Quayle were both pretty young candidates.
His running mate was over 5 years younger in 92 than Trump or Biden were in 2020

>>17973534
I'll agree with you in current year, but if you want a fun mental exercise go back and look at how pearl clutching the electorate was in 1974 and 1976 after Nixon said a dirty word on the Watergate tapes. 1992 was so much more innocent, heck even in 1997 and 1998 I remember people being shocked and abhorred that sex was being discussed about the president.

I think after all the crap they threw at Trump in the late 2010s we are numb to it. The average American today realizes that it's all bs.

If you really want to drill down Limbaugh and Hannity (the elimination of the fairness doctrine in media) and then Fox News all ascending in the mid 1990s broke the strangle hold the three networks and the NY Times/Washington Post axis had on the zeitgeist.

Looking back with what we know today about politics of lies and gas lighting to a time prior to the mid 1990s it is almost comical what the American people would fall for, seriously dig into Watergate it is almost the same shit they tried to pin on Trump but in the 70s the American people fell for it.

Besides the end of the fairness doctrine allowing Limbaugh and Hannity and the rise of FoxNews all happening in the mid 90s, a lot of America woke up to this frame job stuff with Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill, before that Bork and Ginsburg and one in 1969 all had to bow out because oh my God "scandal".

The grip the big three networks and the NY Times/Washington Post had on group think was amazing prior to the mid 1990s. And Americans really did believe whatever they were told by them about Nixon and Bork etc.

Genuinely believe that if you trace it back, you can probably find that modern Neoliberalism has it's real beginnings in the Business Plot.
My theory is that they realized that the coup would fail, so they shifted to mass PR and basically forming a cult within the US political strata that would push their agenda through backchannels and mass propaganda.
Free Market zealotry is genuinely retarded, it holds up to no real scrutiny whatsoever, especially in the context of running a civic state.

>>17973553
>If you really want to drill down Limbaugh and Hannity (the elimination of the fairness doctrine in media) and then Fox News all ascending in the mid 1990s broke the strangle hold the three networks and the NY Times/Washington Post axis had on the zeitgeist.
>Besides the end of the fairness doctrine allowing Limbaugh and Hannity and the rise of FoxNews all happening in the mid 90s, a lot of America woke up to this frame job stuff with Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill, before that Bork and Ginsburg and one in 1969 all had to bow out because oh my God "scandal".
Jon Stewart did more damage to political decorum than Trump, Hannity and Limbaugh combined

>>17973549
"Who am I?"
"Why am I here?"
then later on he apologizes to the moderator because his hearing aid wasn't on lol.

classic, even worse for Perot right after that SNL did a "Live From NY" intro with Phil Hartman repeating those lines as a dementia patient being dumped out by Perot.

Poor guy was 10x the man of any politician since.

>>17973559
No argument there, in fact you are making my argument for me.

A guy like Jon Stewart could not have existed during the big media's frame job on Nixon or Bork etc.

America really started waking up to the gaslight games in the mid 1990s, before then it was so naive, ABC says Nixon bad, Nixon must be bad.

If you watched that movie Zodiac there is even a line in it where the frustrated detectives lament that despite the TV station getting it wrong now everybody in California thinks it has to be true "because they saw it on TV".

That was literally the average America circa 1950-1993ish.

tariffs are a retarded boomer thing, it never works and just results in industry stagnating because there's less competition.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7255316/
If you seriously think that labor costs are a significant factor outside of anything other than sweatshop garbage then you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. By retard protectionist logic american aerospace should've been outsourced to china years ago because chinks get paid less, but in reality that's completely irrelevant and america mogs the rest of the world so hard in aerospace manufacturing because we're good at it.

>>17973618
I can feel the early life coming off this post and off that article

>>17973618
>we're good at it
Are we anymore? Boeing and Lockheed Martin's last decade or so would say otherwise when compared to European or Asian counterparts.

>>17973622
first fucking result on google

>>17973618
>free trade good
>everyone in the US other than the mega rich is worse off now than they were in 1992

>>17973626
>exports in dollar value
Not what I was referring to. The U.S has a de facto monopoly on aerospace shit in the West given how hostile the U.S is about its defense contractors when it comes to competition from friendly countries like France and the UK. I was referring to innovation, quality, and industrial scale, all of which are things the U.S MIC has seriously been lacking in since 1989.

>>17973628
Explain how free trade has lead to housing costs exploding.

Jon Stewart only became popular because of peoples dissatisfaction with the latter. Even though you are right about Stewart. At least he didn't lie us in to a war that broke the publics trust.
>>17973565
America is less naive now maybe. But much more disjointed. The media of today means a huge amount of people have given up on being informed at all. Because there are too many sources and a large amount of it is BS. Newspapers and one hour programs watched by the majority of viewers were probably the height of the informed citezen.

>>17973633
>Explain how free trade has lead to housing costs exploding.
Unfettered mass immigration + lack of sensible regulation of banks and asset managers = cost of living crisis

>>17973632
>in the west
No you retard, not "in the west", on the fucking planet.

>>17973295
The problem with American democracy is that it is a nation of retards,
Democracy is great with an educated population.
Seriously the people here are complete imbeciles. I'd say dumber than shudra Indians

>>17973638
>uh idk what free trade means lol xD
Double digit iq retard, if you don't even know what the discussion is about then shut the fuck up.

>>17973633
>let in millions of third worlders via h1b and open borders
>damn why are houses so expensive

>>17973643
>>17973641

>>17973641
>Double digit iq retard
Alright then Mr. Pinker, explain to me how free trade will make those issues better and not worse.
>>17973639
>"in the west"
Almost all countries that can afford aerospace shit en masse are wealthier countries, most of which are in the West or U.S sphere of influence.

>>17973640
175,000 yuros die each year because they are too retarded to invent AC
>>17973645
are you seriously trying to argue that mass migration isn't part of free trade? because they are both part of the same ideology, retardo

>>17973648
>they are both part of the same ideology
Provide citations. Where did adam smith advocate for open borders?

>>17973651
>Where did adam smith advocate for open borders?
Here's from the Adam Smith institute itself, retard
https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/international/open-borders

>>17973653
>thinks im talking about a fucking ngo
how the fuck do you not know who adam smith is?

>>17973651
https://electadamsmith.com/issues/immigration-reform/
also
>suck premise
I can smell your early life, ben

>>17973661
Why are you on /his/ when you don't even know who adam smith is? What the fuck?

>>17971942 (OP)
What's wrong with trading with other countries?

>>17973659
>how the fuck do you not know who adam smith is?
I know who fucking Adam Smith is retard, that NGO was founded upon the principles Smith cited given a cornerstone of Smith's philosophy was open borders and migration of peoples for maximum profit.

>>17973662
that's literally adam smith, you gay retard

>>17973667
I don't care about what some random ngo says, im talking about the actual man himself.

>>17973663
jobs get shipped to countries with slave labor or near slave labor and only the mega rich benefit

>>17973669
Is this bait or are you serious?

>>17973663
Nothing until foreign countrys put tarrifs against all your exports because you print inflationary money and all your corporations don't build anything in country because, omg slavery unions and regulations bad. Let's export labor to poor country because they have state slavery no unions and regulations and get super rich and run the country then we'll hire more women on our domestic board or something so people think we care about them and run the country with all our foreign labor wealth.

>>17973673
who is that if it isn't Adam Smith?

>>17973671
>and only the mega rich benefit
non-sequitur
outsourcing labor to countries without working wages like China ensures that products are inexpensive, which benefits everyone regardless of wealth status and allows a relatively high domestic working wage in comparison. Domestic manufacturing in high-income economies like Europe and the USA would raise the price of products and either price them out for the average person, or force working wages to rise in response in order to increase purchasing power parity, but at the cost of your countries standard of living and the value of your countries currency (see China). It's really not as simple as "just make everything here maaan"

>>17973670
>im talking about the actual man himself.
Allow me to humor you, retard:
>"Were all nations to follow the liberal system of free exportation and free importation, the different states into which a great continent was divided would so far resemble the different provinces of a great empire. As among the different provinces of a great empire the freedom of the inland trade appears, both from reason and experience, not only the best palliative of a dearth, but the most effectual preventative of a famine; so would the freedom of the exportation and importation trade be among the different states into which a great continent was divided" - An Inquiry Into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations (Cannan ed.), vol. 2

>>17973679
we literally tried your free trade shit for the last 30 years and it resulted in a massive downgrade to quality of life in the US

>>17973679
>just industrialize all your enemies and rivals for gdp bro
I can't believe there's actual retards that still believe this shit in 2025. Industrializing China was literally the worst mistake the U.S has made in the past century in terms of foreign policy and we're about to be raped by it hard in the next few years.

>>17973683
>and it resulted in a massive downgrade to quality of life in the US
By what standard? By actual standards like HDI or by your appeal to emotion and anecdotal evidence? China has an HDI comparable to Mexico by the way, the US is in the top 20

>>17973685
>everyone is doing better, that's why no one can afford a house and no one has kids
eat shit, demon

>>17973684
China and the USA aren't actually enemies, they're rivals, but maintain a fairly moderate policy towards eachother. The USA is Chinas largest trade partner. Chinas issue is actually the fact that they're now kneecapped by an economy that relies too heavily on industry and exports, because now they need to remain competitive on a global market, which has a negative impact on domestic working wages and standard of living.

>>17973688
Last I checked home ownership was around 70% and homelessness was around 0.17%

By comparison, in "Golden Age" 1950, home ownership was around 55%

So I'll just pen your response under "appeal to emotion and anecdotal evidence"

>>17973685
by the fact that it sucks to live in muttmurica lol

>>17973697
Appeal to emotion, dismissed. Shitskins aren't sending their best are they?

>>17973697
175,000 yuros die each year of being too poor to afford AC
>>17973694
millennial home ownership rate is only 55% and home ownership rate for millennials under 30 is only 33% which is only 2/3rds of boomers at that age.
free trade has only benefited the mega rich

>>17973691
>China and the USA aren't actually enemies
China bankrolls NK, Iran, and Russia. The difference between them and these regimes is that they haven't made any hard power plays yet nor chased any headlines, they're just patiently waiting for the right moment to strike and for the U.S to exhaust and overstretch itself to the point of atrophy.
>Chinas issue is actually the fact that they're now kneecapped by an economy that relies too heavily on industry and exports, because now they need to remain competitive on a global market
That's why they're moving so fast into tech and high-skill manufacturing at a breakneck speed. Just in the past couple years they've took out or significantly closed the gap when it comes to several stats and fields, and their tech industry may have already outpaced ours on most levels.

>>17973698
>IF YOU DONT LOVE THE CURRENT STATE OF THE POST-1991 ORDER UR BROWN
Is this really what shills are going with after Trump got elected kek, back under Biden you'd call us Russian or Chinese.

>>17973702
>Just in the past couple years they've took out or significantly closed the gap when it comes to several stats and fields, and their tech industry may have already outpaced ours on most levels.
Once again, I must ask by what standard you're basing this on. I don't care about your emotional headline farming. I don't think China has any novelty technology that the US doesn't have.

>>17973640
>Seriously the (American) people are complete imbeciles.

Completely agree.

>Dumber than shudra Indians.
Now wait a minute. Your average American is *very stupid* by first world standards.... but this does not mean they're dumb by Indian, African, or Australian aboriginal standards.

They aren't performing analingus on cows to get more milk or smearing themselves in cow dung for it's "medicinal properties".

Your average American can read and write and has a functional grasp of things like history, math, and science. Most of the citizens of subsaharan Africa or India; have none of these things. They're the intellectual equivalent of an American first grade dropout.

>>17973706
Why all the loaded language? That's the problem with these so-called "debates" is you retards are allergic to the real world and insist that arguments with actual basis should be dismissed purely because you don't love the "current state of the post-1991 order". I don't care what you think. I want you to convince me why I should give a shit about what you have to say, but instead all I get is just malding.

>>17973679
All the towns have turned into mad max zones with barter town super stores where people endlessly shuffle in and out buying food that is terrible for them and consumer goods that have shit quality.
America really is running on fumes at this point. It's really just mostly fat hobbling numbed bovines walking out of stores with shopping carts full of cheap goods. The powerfull class sits in nice chairs inside brick buildings with one way windows orchestrating it all. Meanwhile outside homeless crackheads leave mounds of salvaged overseas manufactured goods in trash piles in the park because it's so worthless they cant be bothered to carry it anymore. Service establishments shuffle around low class workers like trading cards making you question your choice every time you visit them. But the sodium enriched onions slop washed down by a nice sugary syrup elixir make you forget your apprehension until the next time your craving brings you back for more. Questioning this whole chain of events is very disturbing to these CEO's. They use thier current crop of expansionary winners. Wealthy for now due to thier obedience to the wealth generating maw of endless cyclical exploitation. To drive out any who critisize thier exploitation. Their fear of becoming the overweight shopping cart pusher mindlessly rolling thier monthly supply of unhealthy cheap goods at the supercenter produces a satisfying desperate obedience to thier masters.

>>17973694
If adjusted for WHITE home ownership. I guaran-fucking-tee you that times are far worse now than they were in the '50s.

Maybe nigs and Mexicans own more homes now than they used to in the '50s, but that's not exactly a win, for the most of us.

America used to be set up where a white man with a high school diploma, or better, was *guaranteed* a good American life (assuming stayed awake on the job). And assuming he had a college degree, than the bounty of heaven and earth would be bestowed.

You give me a time machine and I'm going back, regardless of what you say.

A white guy would have to seriously fuck up to wind up doing grunt entry-level labor. That bullshit was reserved for brown people back in the day. Entry level jobs for a white man back then, was management *supervising* the brown laborers.

>>17973707
>Once again, I must ask by what standard you're basing this on
Manufacturing at scale and fielding new military technologies (PLA now has the largest and newest navy in the world, their other branches are also catching up rapidly), AI, and nuclear fusion research are the most obvious and famous recent examples. And in nearly every other field there are now firmly in second and catching up quickly to the U.S.
>I don't think China has any novelty technology that the US doesn't have.
You're missing the forest for the trees here. The problem with China isn't just their innovation (which is a serious if secondary problem), it's the fact that they can outproduce the U.S several times over entirely within their borders when it comes to virtually everything, especially military equipment that while not as good as American stuff is close enough and in incomprehensibly massive numbers. The U.S now is too reliant on international trade and commerce to effectively oppose China conventionally on the scale it could during the Cold War or WWII, given everything is tied up in fragile international supply chains and built just in time rather than just in case.

>>17973711
Okay but ask yourself this question

Do you think you actually have a grounded view of reality, or do you just have a warped perception of reality by exposure to Social Media negativity bias and Mean World Syndrome?

I think it's important to ask this question because we cannot even begin to have a constructive debate on Americas problems if your arguments have no factual basis.

>>17973710
>Why all the loaded language?
You're the one that called people itt niggers and completely dismissed serious quality of life declines as a factor in why people are hesitant to embrace free trade again.

>>17973721
>>17973716
Sorry anon, I'm still not getting any actual arguments from you. Can you try this again without resorting to anecdotal evidence, loaded language, and argumentum ad nauseam?

>>17973718
Yes indeed I do think so. Violent crime rate isn't all that relevant to this discussion either. So I'm not sure why you're posting it.

>>17973730
>Violent crime rate isn't all that relevant to this discussion either. So I'm not sure why you're posting it.
I just assumed it was because you opened your post with "All the towns have turned into Mad Max Zones"

>>17973726
>I'm still not getting any actual arguments from you
Home ownership rates have collapsed for every demographic other than Boomers, the median age of a homeowner has gone up sharply (picrel), deaths from drug use are at or near their highest ever in American history (only falling slightly from the highs in 2022),
>https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/overdose-deaths-are-finally-starting-to-decline-heres-why/
birthrates and marriage rates have disintegrated, and adjusted for inflation wages are still stagnant from the 1970s while prices of both commodities and necessities has far outpaced it.

>>17973731
It's more a feeling of mass disjointedness. People use the stores. But they're in some sort of zombified state. It brings them no contentment. The workers aren't happy to work thier. The buyers aren't happy to shop thier. It's palpable.

>>17973718
>>17973726
>>17973733
These figures mirror the daily reality I'm describing.
It's like an A.I. trying to meet society's needs.
>but you are fed and clothed, what is this happiness and contentment you speak of. Would you like pills? Recreational drugs perhaps?

>>17973733
>birthrates and marriage rates have disintegrated
Birthrates seem to be a function of carrying capacity, and it's hardly exclusive to the United States. But I do agree that there should be a standard for working wages relative to inflation, average wages have increased, but are relatively stagnant relative to inflation, and this is a problem
>>17973736
I do understand this idea of disillusionment. It's a feeling that many artists have been expressing since the late 70s and early 80s at the very least.

>>17973738
>Sorry anon, I'm still not getting any actual arguments from you. Can you try this again without resorting to anecdotal evidence, loaded language, and argumentum ad nauseam?

>>17973738
>>but you are fed and clothed, what is this happiness and contentment you speak of. Would you like pills? Recreational drugs perhaps?
the feed actually make you sick and you feel bad? no, that can't be right the data show that its great for you

>>17973738
>It's like an A.I. trying to meet society's needs.
That's just the nature of Bureaucracy, the people in charge can do everything in their power to make your life better (or not) but they cannot spoon-feed you personal fulfillment. I think the people at the top, the globe trotting, crypto toting, vloggers are more soulless than the have-nots. But it's always been that way. We need money to live, but to what degree can it buy happiness?

>>17973738
>>17973736
>>17973749
This is all shit that Japan already deals with but arguably to a worse degree. Low birthrates, depressed people with unfulfilling lives that involve consuming slop. It's also why Japan has one of the highest rates of suicide among high-income countries surpassing well over twice that of the USA.
I sometimes wonder if the future of the USA actually more resembles Japan than the third world hellscape that /pol/tards often project. It feels like Japan is more in the direction the US is going, Japan even has a higher national debt relative to its GDP than the USA

>>17973769
>more resembles Japan than the third world hellscape that /pol/tards often project
I feel like Brazil is more likely than either Japan (the U.S is not anywhere near as culturally homogenous or competently governed) or the South Africa scenario (Whites and mutts are just too much of the population and there's just not enough hostility/resentment against them from other, smaller demographics). It's a giant, lumbering, highly corrupt, crime-ridden two-party federation governing over a highly diverse but ambiguously "Western" population that while being diverse lacks serious enough cultural divisions and breaches of the social contract to either Balkanize or fall into conflict. It's just sort of in this limbo of second-worldism and deep-seated class division that never really boils over but just keeps rotting slowly into irrelevance.

>>17973744
Wages haven't raised one bit other than inflation since the 70's, this would be fine if cost was the same but it is not.
Mostly the things I am describing are the people. The people are not the same. Population is increasing as well. Growth is happening as well, and nothing good comes from it. From a quality of life point of view. It benefits the shiester shack owners and keeps up employment a bit but it provides no other benefits.
Funny you want me to lay things out in a way that an a.i. could anylize easier.
You know those nightmare videos of third world cities? Crappy architecture, homeless street walkers, public druggies, traffic congestion. It really feels like things are going more that way. There's a happiness index right? Does it measure actual happiness though? Because my censors are detecting less. Not in me. In others.

>>17973791
Hey anon, I'm glad you have a name because you are legitimately one of the worst posters on this board. You give Semen Sativa and Chud Anon a run for their money

>>17973795
There are shitty parts of Japan too if you can believe it. Meth is also a big problem still in a lot of communities

>>17973804
Why do you dislike me? Is it because I'm a Carterfag?

>>17973769
Mostly it seems like it's a planning thing. When's America's towns were planned they did a good job of it. Somehow they had a sense for satisfaction that is produced from your surroundings. Now they just throw shit all around it halfhazardly like a little kid with Legos. More town centers are needed. But these 15 minute city's they're talking about sound like they're going to be roach hotels instead of proper towns.

>>17973795
>There's a happiness index right? Does it measure actual happiness though? Because my censors are detecting less. Not in me. In others.
I think happiness could be a factor of not only relative economic wellbeing, but also religiosity. I know that might sound crazy, and I say this as an atheist myself, but I think religion could provide a necessary release from the stagnant, unfulfilled feeling in life you're describing. It might be why Japan and Korea score relatively low compared to the more religious west.

>>17973824
O.K. now you really sound like A.I.

>>17973823
>When's America's towns were planned they did a good job of it.

>>17973671
US has the highest paid jobs on the planet and you are crying that you cant work in a shoe factory
stfu

>>17973812
Meth does not do a community any good cocaine maybe, but not meth. I've never been to Japan but I know what you mean.

>>17973839
No I'm being completely serious
What if the people included in the happiness surveys include those with real religious conviction? What if religion allows people to "turn their brain off" so-to-speak and find fulfillment regardless of their stagnant lives?

>>17973841
I don't see any black people

>>17973841
I've never lived in a suburb quite as big as that Levittown but in my experience suburbs are actually top tier community design for bicycling since they're designed for slower traffic, which actually makes biking preferred over even driving in a lot of cases.

>>17973841
I mean before this. This is not a town itself but suburbs. This is a large part of the problem. The businesses going up are copying this model now as well. You can even build these and make them alright. They just need a little consideration and variety.
A big problem now is private property. It gets sold in chunks big enough to build smaller versions of these but not big enough for better planned housing.

>>17973856
There are lots of religious places on your map that scored low.

>>17973841
Good example of the soul crushing big corpo stuff they started doing after WW2. The mass production effort turned within was soulless.

>>17973873
Right but that's also why I said that (relative) economic wellbeing was also apart of it
Think about it this way
Your argument is that people don't live fulfilling lives, they're conditioned to just consuming slop they don't like in a massive stagnant grind, your argument is that people shouldn't be happy because they don't have a sense of purpose or a sense of being apart of a greater whole. What if the answer to this could be, as an alternative to social cohesion, is religiosity? I mean think about it, comparing apples to apples, it seems like religion might be what differentiates the west from nonreligious, hyper consumerist societies like Japan, countries with far higher rates of suicide, and score lower on happiness reports.

>>17973883
Sure religion can help. I concede bot.

>>17973708
>Now wait a minute. Your average American is *very stupid* by first world standards
America is the only first world country and the average American has an iq about 40 points higher than the average yuro

>>17973841
suburbs are based
>>17973843
wages have stagnated and are below inflation since the 1970s retard. millennials are worse off than their parents

>>17973057
>This is why Japan dominates the electronics industry
Or, did in 1985. Choice of words here.

>>17973295
people don't vote on "ideas" they vote for the guy with the coolest image which in this case was Bill Clinton

>>17973295
>benefit the rich businessmen and destory the working American middle class
That never happened.
Manufacturing employment (not to be confused with the manufacturing sector) peaked in 1979 absolutely, and 1952 relatively in peacetime.
Even then, in a labor force of ~170 million, the absolute decrease from peak employment levels was ~8 million.

>>17974231
>>17973867
>suburbs are actually top tier community design
>suburbs are based
Suburbs played a serious role in the decline of the U.S culturally and socially because it socially atomized the White American middle class by disintegrating third places and accelerating the decline of both religion and labor.

>>17974670
nah, they are based because cities are for trannies

>>17974684
>they are based because cities are for trannies
They're the reason cities now are for trannies and Blacks and why the coutnryside is slowly dying.

>>17974686
no, you are thinking of brown v board of ed and subsequent busing scotus cases

>>17974689
>you are thinking of brown v board of ed and subsequent busing scotus cases
Those two things dramatically accelerated suburbanization

>>17973708
Americans are objectively dumber than Shudra caste Indians. I don't care for your skewed IQ tests. The samples need to be studied because there are many dumbasses in the US.
Shudra caste Indians can chop fruit fast, perform simple cash handling, count, drive a car, drive a buggy. They go through class curriculum until age 14 and India doesn't have the No Child Left Behind nonsense that America does.
America isn't as destitute and retarded yet, but as this economic polarization in the country grows, the underclass in the US will only get more and more retarded. Education departments are gonna get gutted and universities will become out of reach for working class Americans and poor Americans.
Shudra Indians might have a weird affinity for feces and cows but they are often smarter than American counterparts simply because the caste system in India gives an actual mandatory education they must complete whereas the caste system in the US forces poors to take up shitty jobs like retail or trades and forsakes education altogether.
Democracy can only work in an egalitarian society like Europe.

>>17974745
yurop is a third world country where 175,000 die each year because yuros are too retarded to invent AC. The average American has about 40 IQ points more than the smartest yuro

>>17971942 (OP)
What if anti-NAFTA Governor Mario Cuomo had run and won in 1992?

>>17974777
Would Cuomo have won GA LA AR and TN?

Ohio and Colorado as well as NH and NV were razor close for Clinton, I don't think a big city New York Liberal would tip those states.

If he had Clinton as VP? Not sure that whole era was famous for VPs that didn't carry their region, Bensen losing TX LA and OK in 88 and Kemp losing NY and PA in 96.

>>17974883
>Would Cuomo have won GA LA AR and TN?
If anything he would've done better given the South hated NAFTA and Perot did the best in the South and West. The South only went so hard for Clinton because he was from Arkansas and the vote was split by Perot. It'd especially work if he had a Southerner as his VP.

>>17974933
already debunked that VPs had that much sway in elections at the time (see above).

Did the south hate NAFTA? If anything the south had the least labor unions and union protections, had the least about of old industry jobs that were the first to go to Mexico, in my memory the south was indifferent to NAFTA.

Perot doing "the best" in a certain region without winning a single state isn't saying much, sure he could have spoiled or tiped scales but I doubt Southerners would have run to a big city NY Liberal.

Remember since the 1960s the Republican Party had a stranglehold on the South, Nixon and really Goldwaters "southern strategy". I don't see a guy with a NY accent that fit Lee Atwaters description of a big city liberal winning anything south of Maryland in 1992.

Cuomo was the man in his little pond of the tri-state but that doesn't play in Cincinnati or New Orleans or Denver.

>>17973295
Perot was winning until he dropped out due to a harassment campaign and reentered the race. Even if he did get elected though, he would get nothing done with a Congress that hated him.

>>17973679
>ensures that products are inexpensive
Nope.

>>17974995
1994 though saw something happen to Congress that didn't happen for over 40 years remember.

Not saying all those would have been Reform Party people but imagine what Newt would have agreed to with Perot?

>>17975039
Newt is corrupt to the core along with many of his cronies. It says something that the one thing Democrats and Republicans agreed on was making it harder for third parties to rise again.

>>17975039
that was in response to clintons brady bill and awb

>>17974883
>If he had Clinton as VP
I don’t think Mario Cuomo would’ve picked Bill, they talked a lot of shit about each other in ‘92 and the bad feelings didn’t really subside until Bill put Andrew in his cabinet as a peace offering. Cuomo probably would’ve picked someone like Bob Graham or maybe Sam Nunn

>>17975108
Wasn't Sam Nunn having health problems by that time, it would be a nice pick up admittedly but would VPs carry their states from 1984-2000? that era is freaky with the VP not carrying their state (I credit Clinton being a neighbor of TN as the reason Gore bucks that trend, Bush in 84 was just in a landslide year).

Graham is interesting, but aside from flipping Florida (and that is one VP flip I would accept in that era). Graham would play in Ohio? Wisconsin? Tennessee, Louisiana? I think Georgia would be against Graham if anything.

Florida in the 90s was a very weird almagamation of different things so if you could master that like Graham did, it may turn off a lot of voters in most states.

>>17975268
Are you thinking of someone other than Nunn? Not only can I not find anything about Nunn suffering health problems in the 90’s, but he was also considered as a potential running mate by both John Kerry in 2004 and Obama in 2008.

>Ohio
As you said, Clinton won Ohio with a razor thin margin…. on a pro-NAFTA platform. You think a Democrat running on an anti-NAFTA platform would be more likely to lose the state in 1992?

>>17975305
From October of 1995:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-10-10-mn-55290-story.html

I seem to remember either he or his wife having some major surgery or health scare but it is telling that in the fall of 1995 he sought to bow out of day-to-day politics. There is sometimes a lot more to that story, major health scare or not, I see a man looking for a much slower pace and no more climbing the greasy poll as the Brits say. I always liked Nunn, I agree he would have been one of our better VPs and yet he always told them "no".

>Ohio
good point, however as we all know most times in Politics it isn't the message but the messenger. Bush vs. a down home "I feel your pain" mid-west/south fresh faced governor when they are both FOR NAFTA, is worlds apart then a NY Liberal in the era of Lee Atwater and that Pace Salsa commercial . . . "NEW YORK CITY! . . get a rope!"

Plus Ohioans did care deeply about NAFTA but there were a lot of other voters in the state that didn't. Top 3 issue sure but not enough to overcome the stereotypes in the zeitgeist in 1992.

>>17975362
>muh stereotypes
The U.S elected Bush twice despite him being stereotyped as a retard twice, how long do I have to tell you guys that dumb shit like this does not matter and character/competence does.