Fuck Urdesh edition

>Previous thread:>>96251682

Legacies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 Leaks
https://files.catbox.moe/98h6h7.pdf
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N
>Mech Leaks
https://imgur.com/a/lRaqKSw
>SA Gofile
https://gofile.io/d/YEEqBN
>Knight and Titans
https://imgur.com/a/gETA32z
https://imgur.com/a/UU60bLV
https://imgur.com/a/HqAriJA
https://imgur.com/a/9YS0YJG
Sloptica Journal 1
https://gofile.io/d/3q0Xkt

>New Edition upon us to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.orug/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
Why do you hate Urdesh???

Book delivery

HH 3.0 AoD Rulebook Raw
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:bvkv4k7yohqdg4rr6ys7t3lkujvterda&dn=HH%203.0%20AoD%20Rulebook%20Raw.pdf&xl=249771097&fc=1

HH 3.0 Liber Astartes Raw
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:pi4wtfms4bs2ckolvvuycx47vyvajx56&dn=HH%203.0%20Liber%20Astartes%20Raw.pdf&xl=185773119&fc=1

HH 3.0 Liber Hereticus Raw
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:thm72vtcxk5sm46m65irn3j3qtstwmna&dn=HH%203.0%20Liber%20Hereticus%20Raw.pdf&xl=205029541&fc=1

HH 3.0 Liber Auxilia Raw
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:fcqjojdpiattdhuqcqr2id4kpmkrxnik&dn=HH%203.0%20Liber%20Auxilia%20Raw.pdf&xl=81630622&fc=1

>>96256745 (OP)
WHY I HATE URDESH
> TRAITORS TO IMPERIUM
> TRAITORS TO OMNISSIAH
> POOR INDUSTRIAL OUTPUT
> POOR CERAMITE QUALITY CONTROL
> NOOSPHERE HAS TOO MANY INVASIVE COOKIES
FUCK URDESH

>>96256745 (OP)
>Urdesh
Literally who? I can't believe horse poster made better OPs.

>>96256744
>"Models and rules for cool are more important than GW corpo rules changes for the sake of profit."
>but I will still force myself and everyone around me to play 3.0 with tons of house rules, rather than go back to 2.0 or 1.0

>The spartan vehicle sprue has hand terminals and weaponless hands so it looks like he's reading a kindle. Bolt pistol holstered. Vox back pack. Done. All bits inside the box. 100% legal model.


What about the legs?

>>96256777
If you aren't playing with house rules in every edition, then you're sucking GWs cock and having a bad time. Why would you do that?

>>96256778
There's so many legs in that box. So many vents. The best vents. So stable to make INT checks easier.

>>96256791
>no, you can't play 1.0 or 2.0 with house rules, you have to play 3.0 with house rules!
All I hear is "glug glug glug" as James' tiny Anglo penis goes in and out of your mouth.

>>96256801
Read what I wrote again, slowly and out loud.

>list AT
>ten chainfisting cataphractii
>spartan sponson guns
>lascutters in both breachers squads
>two land speeders with meltaguns and hunter killer missiles
>4 rapier laser destroyers
>hunter killers on all four rhinos in the list

>list anti-infantry
>2 tactical squads
>some despoilers
>breacher bolters
>a dreadnought with a fist and bolt cannon
>5 heavy support volkite culverin guys
>5 man veteran assault squad with dual lightning claws


Should I take more anti-infantry?

>>96256804
How about you stop defending 3.0?

>Evade reaction allows you to move initiative just after set up moves
>All marines are minimum initiative 4
>Enemy models cannot move closer than 1 inch
>Alpha Legion always count as 2 inches away

So Alpha Legion literally cannot be charged unless they're set up moved into? Feels busted

>>96256821
I know you're having a bad day, but putting words into others people's mouth won't remove the cock from yours. You need to argue their points, not make up what they're saying.

>>96256835
0/10, James.

>>96256811
>bolter wielding dreadnought

Based.

>>96256832
Evade is Light or Cavalry. Set up is M+I, then you roll. I don't think you've read all the rules surrounding this.

>>96256772
I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree. This thread is shit because one Anon is having a melty spanning last thread.

>>96256745 (OP)
Should I take double plasma on my saturnine dread or double disintegrators?

>>96256766
thank you anon

>>96256811
Not seeing a whole lot of anti-meq stuff...

>>96256764
Do note that only the models that have targeters get the BS buff, so if you want a whole unit with BS5 they'll be helpless in melee

>>96256845
>3.0 haters can't even parse one sentence

No wonder you were filtered by the rule book

>>96256745 (OP)
How am I supposed to enjoy my 3.0 screeching without my goldshi
Shit thread

>>96256862
Both are actual trash so neither. Unless you really like how they look.

>>96256875
I'm just hung up on what the proper proportion of AT vs anti-infantry should be

>>96256884
No one is going to give you the right answer because that depends entirely on your usual opponents and what the goal of the list is.

What do I do with my remaining 800~ points?

>>96256894
Falchion

>>96256884
Everyone is. Most people haven't played a single game.

>>96256894
Add legion specific units for flavor

>>96256862
You should take double conversion beamer
But out of those 2 the plasma bombard is probably better since it has more range and can fire indirectly

>>96256893
I don't know who they are, I just look at my LGS's Facebook pictures of local games to try and figure that out. I refuse to interact with the local community until I have fully painted 4000 points.

>>96256875
>goes from pretending to hate GW rules to hating people who don't love them and use them

>>96256811
You should be taking more status inflicting weapons. You are not going to kill a whole tactical squad on an objective in one turn with what you have there
Snipers are good too
Taking a dreadnought to give it a heavy bolter seems like a masiive waste desu. You might as well go with double fists and plasma blasters

>>96256930
But double fists and plasma blasters don't come in the AoD box...?

SOH Deredeo

>>96256930
Why the fuck would anyone do that? You know contemptors can't keep pace with vehicles anymore, right anon?

>>96256942
The Age of Darkness box and its consequences have been disastrous for the Horus Heresy

>>96256894
What army builder is that ?

>>96256894
>Doesn't include his Amazon Prime Advantages in his armylist
DOOM YE

>>96256942
Neither does a lot of the stuff on that list?
If that's a requirement the autocannons would still be better.
To be honest the better use for contemptors seems to be as gun platforms now. You could get the weapon sprue they sell separately with the plasma cannon and conversion beamer, those seem to be the better anti infantry guns it has.
You can magnetize them pretty easily, there's holes in the weapons for magnets if you want to try different stuff.

>>96256950
Contemptors are still pretty hard to kill for their points and basic infantry can't do anything against them in melee
If he want to use a contemptor having a heavy bolter in it is not great either

>>96256926
>still can't comprehend basic English

>>96256950
>contemptors can't keep pace with vehicles anymore
>Gets suppressed from one glance, hits the rest of the game on 5s

>>96256908
Thought about doing some Siege Termies but I don't know how good value they are now. Also considered Dominators, but they're retinue and the Warsmith doesn't seem to be able to take one (at least in NR right now).

>>96256964
New Recruit

>>96256975
I just haven't played about with that yet, looking at points and units first.

>>96257088
>but I don't know how good value they are now
I dont either, but they seem cool.

>>96257103
310 for a squad of 5 and an Omniscope, but the swarmer missiles seem a bit ass, and they're stuck in the middle of wanting to be close and at range

>>96257088
if you mean IW siege tyrants, they're garbage this edition. They're a C-grade on antitank and a C-grade on anti-MEQ and a C-grade on anti-TEQ, and C-grade in melee.
Some complete retards think "well they're not F-tier at anything so it's okay then to do 4 jobs badly"

They're the exact definition of why multi-role doesn't work. No matter what job they do, they don't do it cost effectively.

>>96257110
Siege terminators? Theyre like 45ppm with an autocannon.

>>96257088
>the Warsmith doesn't seem to be able to take one (at least in NR right now).
Two things: praetors no longer bring along retinues without a slot, you have to take a Detachment with a retinue slot, and the legacies document literally dropped yesterday and it is as big as the libers, it's going to take them at least a week to get everything from there in

>>96257117
Tyrant siege terminators

>>96257122
Yeah, that's what I meant regarding things not being in there yet for obvious reasons. In NR, it won't let you take a detachment without a Praetor, despite a Warsmith being a Praetor equivalent.

>>96257117
I forgot that they just released "Siege Tartaros"

>>96256778
>100% legal model.
>100% legal model.
>100% legal model.

How did this happen to wargaming

>>96257117
Tartaros Siege termies are also situational. They don't get powerfists, and have to pay +10 points for a chainfist to not be harmless to vehicles with their S6 autocannons. Bad in melee with slow movement, WS4 and initiative 3 if you use Power Axes and 2 attacks each instead of 3-4 of real terminators.
Probably strong in Thousand Sons where Rending5+ power makes the reaper autocannons actually counter terminators, but the default tartaros-siege would get shellac'd in melee with WS5 real terminators with extra attacks.

>>96256860
Bro are you replying to yourself?
Lmao faggot

>>96257169
You need to be 18 to post here, zoomie.

>>96256769
You forgot
>Submissive to Legio Mortis
FUCK URDESH

>>96257188
Legio Mortis, ewww. Their paint scheme is so bad that a guy got Quints picking Mortis for someone and that person still didnt paint Mortis.

Man I feel like I should ne more upset that my melee tech thralls are finally illegal but honestly fuck em they've never been good lol, I'll just use them as spares if I ever go for the laecrymata meme strat

>>96257171
Almost like TS rending 5+ just happens
to make anything with breaching amazing doesn't it ?

>>96257208
yup, but unfortunately it means plasma and reapers without it are largely below the curve. Especially now that terminators are T5 so S6 doesnt wound em on 2+.

Should be autistic and write-up a FW-style campaign narrative/fanfic and post it here?

>>96257194
Titanicus scale mortis with candy red panels would probably look pretty swell, actually.

>Land Raider Achilles
10 HP are impressive. But 4 Multi-meltas idk. I don't really care for them beyond 8"

>>96257225
No.

>>96257234
Not at all. They are barely passable at the very most, which isn't something to ever aspire to.

>>96256766
genuinely... how the fuck do I use this? i'm a normie when it comes to torrenting I just wait for gofile or MEGA links

>Panic
Morbus Bombard (Phosphex)
Quad Launcher (Phosphex)
Kraken Bolter (Shot Selector)
Flamer
Heavy Flamer
Twin-Heavy Flamer
Flamestorm Cannon
Photonic Incinerator
Arcus Missile Launcher (Pyrax)
Phosphex Bomb
Phosphex Discharger

>Pinning
Morbus Bombard (HE)
Nemesis Bolter
Graviton Gun (+Shock)
Graviton Cannon (+Shock)
Graviton-Charge Cannon (+Shock)
Grav-Flux Bombard (+Shock)
Graviton Pulverizer (+Shock)
Deathstorm Missile Launcher
Kharybdis Missile Launcher
Volkite Falconet

>Suppressive
Rotor Cannon
Punisher Rotary Cannon
Kraken Bolter (Shot Selector)
Gravis Heavy Bolter Battery
Twin Avenger Bolt Cannon
Spicula Rocket System
Volkite Cardanelle
Neutron Beam Laser (Shock)
Neutron Blaster (Shock)
Neutron Laser Battery (Shock)
Neutron-Wave Cannon (Shock)
Arcus Missile Launcher (Neutron) (Shock)

>Stun
Astartes Shotgun
Demolisher Cannon
Dreadhammer Siege Cannon
Fellblade Accelerator Cannon (HE)
Kratos Battlecannon (HE)
Havoc Launcher
Concussive Resonator

>>96257234
>Titanicus Scale Mortis
>Titanicus
>Scale Mortis
>Mortis
FUCK LEGIO MORTIS.

>>96257237
Twin multimeltas are utter shit, idk what they were thinking

>>96257237
yeah 8" range on multimeltas is so bullshit. The Kratos melta gets 24" range.
Multi-melta needs at least 12" so Maybe be tolerable (which would be half of its 24" shooting range which is how melta worked originally)

>>96257289
>Why isn't my fifteen year old unit being given guns in line with the new meta

>>96257313
If twin multi-meltas were not in the Libers you might not have been retarded for posting that
But at last

>>96257240
ok :(

>>96257260
it feels really really nice not to give a single fuck about a new edition.

>>96257188
Very BASED response
> This post brought to you by the Venator Gang

>>96257289
Need to sell new models

>>96257422
The new models that are universally dogshit?

>>96257258
Install Tixati and then paste the link there

>>96257433
You asked what they were thinking, not if they are smart.

>>96256856
Nobody calls Reposition reposition, it will forever be Evade (it was never evade either, it was Withdraw)
>>96256832
Say you reach 1", and they withdraw 4" for a total of 5"+2". You set up 3". Now they are a total of 4" away, no?
You merely needed to reach 1" distance! So easy xDD! Better buy those Transports™

>A Thousand Sons
"All knowledge is . . . LE GOOD!"
>Prospero Burns
"ackshually some knowledge is le bad"
It's funny that two Legions are enemies because of this tiny philosophical difference

BROTHERS, RISE! WE HAVE TROONS TO RAPE!!!

>>96257476
OwO

>>96257289
Wait why are they bad? Charge the Achilles straight up the field, discharge a unit on the midfield, keep charging into melta range

Emperor's Children, Death Guard, or Night Lords?

>>96257560
Are you gay, ace, or trans?

>>96257258
Install tixati
> Click Add
> Tab over to "Open Magnet Link"
> Paste Links
> Open
its that easy anon

>pop in on lunch
>thread in shambles
Ah so all the jobless ameridregs are out in force. I'll come back to ight when more adults are eoff work.

Youtube videos covering the Legacies pdf have been trickling in. The 3.0 shills saying shit like "even though it's missing things and is late, we need to thank GW for getting this to us" in audio form sounds so fucking pathetic, I don't know how someone can edit their video without wanting to kill themselves hearing that.

>>96257720
A lot of that generation was conditioned to be thankful, even for slop. To the point where they fear if they aren't, the other party will think they're not grateful and won't continue to "provide".

>>96257720
START KILLING THEM.

>>96257500
Suffer as the trash tier legion you are.

>>96257720
it's time to log off lil gup, this isn't healthy

How come you can only put together a functional army list with all the pieces working together at 4000 or above?

Calling all armour autists

If a marine company could easily justify having any Mark of power armour, is there any reason that they would choose Mk2? It seems like the later marks are all superior in their various fields and the only reason Mk2 still sees use is because its the only one available.
But of your dudes were:
> on good terms with the mechanicum
> on good terms with Horus
> technically competent and well-supplied

Is there any reason that they would choose Mk2 rather than Mk4/Mk6? Or is it purely for the aesthetics?

>>96257771
sounds like a skill issue

>>96257771

Because you are bad at list tetris
Because you have bad auxiliary detachments
Because you don't use Logistical Benefit primes

>>96257528
achilles will be dead before it ever gets within 8" of any tank, so you're just paying 280 points to transport 3 terminators or 6 weak models.

>>96257771
4x 10-man tacs and 4 rhinos are under 700 pts
How many games have you played to reach your conclusions?

>>96257720
Trying to center your meltdown on "the pdf was released a few days later than they said it was going to be" isnt going to work very well anon

At least when it comes to some irrelevant niche loadout thats still missing someone might have a model that was using it which is now illegal.

>>96257798
It's been in continuous use for about 200 years, it's very easy to make and there's enough boomer lore about it that repairs and maintenance can be done much more easily than some of the newer marks.

>>96257798
Becuase why throw away perfectly good armor? Being on good terms with anyone doesn't matter. They aren't going just replace all your suits for an upgrade. You might get X amount of what you request but that's not a guarantee it will be 1:1 replacements. The heresy was rough on production. Even well equipped companies you can expect reserve or unimportant line units to use the back stock of older gear as new units and main companies get the new stuff. Veterans as well will sport older armor due to suffering from success.

>96257815
Quality b8, but b8 nonetheless.

>>96257758
I don't see anything wrong with seeing how different people are reacting to the pdf. Content creators on youtube are unfortunately part of the community.

>>96257815
>he's mad because it's late
No, I'm cringing at content creators begging their audience to be nice and say thank you for all the hard work GW employees have done on 3.0. Hey Anon, have you said even said "thank you" yet to GW? I'm not hearing explicit appreciation from you either.

>>96257528
The twin multi melta is a sick joke

>Who cares if the options aren't in the Libers? Legacies will fix it.
>Who cares if the options aren't in the Legacies? This makes centurions better because . . . IT JUST DOES OK?!?
Truly shameless.

>>96257798
if I was on good relations with a forgeworld, I'd first be requesting thousands of autocannons, heavy bolters, lascannons, kraken/nemesis bolters, transport vehicles, rapier units for marines to stand safely behind, thunderhammers / lightning claw sets, and breaching shields if they have forcefield generators.

Switching from Mk2 to Mk4 armor would be near the bottom of the priority list. It's more like if we're getting some new recruits, then might as well get them some of the newer superior armor if we were going to have to buy new suits of Mk2 anyway, but its not something I'd be doing for my existing legionaries.

>>96257815
Illastus Nipple Canons on IF Leviathan is now gone. Which is kinda sad cause they suck on other firing platform (Perform worst than autocanon at everything but killing tacticals)

>>96257866
wow that is pretty retarded

>>96257798
>It seems like the later marks are all superior in their various fields and the only reason Mk2 still sees use is because its the only one available.
MkII is still seen as the most efficient and the switch from abutted rings to rigid plates of later suits came at the cost of some flexibility.

>>96257867
Jokes on you, I was saying consul loadouts being restricted was good before the legacy pdf. Because it very clearly is, having consuls be distinct units with defined roles and niches rather than a generalized buff for the same template of character makes them more interesting and unique.

>>96257528
Beacause it's a S9 multimelta
Las canons do that at range and you get 2 of those per sponson on a normal land raider. And they always have armorbane on
Sure, if you get into melta range you do a lot of damage with the twin meltas.
But you basically do half of that by just putting a pintle multimelta on a normal land raider
And the quad launcher is not good either without phosphex shell
You are paying a lot more points for 2 extra HP and half the transport capacity, which prevents you from carrying most of the units you want on a land raider to being with
And you are loosing Assault vehicle too
The Achilles is pretty shit tbqh

>>96256811
Chainfists are totally not antitank. Most vehicles are AV10-11 on the rear AV they are hit on, which a power fist is perfectly capable of hurting without giving up a third (or half!) of its attacks.
Power fists do up to 6 HP, whereas chainfists do 4, and do 6 only if they spike. And that's on 3A elites.
I think even against dreadnoughts they don't surpass power fists

>>96257925
So what distinct roles do a champion with serpenta and a champion with combi-melta (your only two options) fill? Why can't the designated melee guy grab other pistols?

>>96256868
That's fair, really. My entire gripe with Tyrants is their krak being single shot. I'd even tolerate their missiles being heavy and thus incompatible with Implacable, unlike the Fulmentarii's

>>96257798
Older marks had better strength servos and it's likely that the plates that make up the older suits have been ship of Theseus'd into the newer, better materials by now, so they don't really have much of a reason to replace it with the newer stuff just so they'd be a bit less likely to die from weapons that normally can't get through your armor anyway.

No bolter and no blade makes Master of Signals sad, silly and afraid

Speaking of land raiders
Is the Explorator actually a pretty decent anti tank/TEQ platform?
With 6 las canons it's just 30p more than a 6 man HSS
I know rapiers are better and all but T6 2W 3+ can't really compare with AV14

>>96257975
Tyrant single shot missiles are more useful than the fulmentarus ones though. Theyre better for killing vets, they can actually kill vehicles and shit, theyre not good vs terminators but frankly neither are fulmentarus.

>>96257866
Jesus Christ it's not even 2 shots? Twin Multi-meltas are even worse than I thought they were!!

>>96257866
What the fuck

>>96257989
I dont think so, at least in terms of "high damage", but its on a pretty solid body.

three twin lascannons might seem nice, but remember its all D1 if you move. And even if you dont its what, four hits and then two pens vs AV13, you dont even kill a predator in one shot with that thing.

>>96257980
Don't think legions much venerated old suits and tried to keep them operations no matter how busted they got, rather than just get a new one off the assembly line. And while early, mid and late production suits are a thing in the fluff, don't think they started making MkII rings out of MkIV materials towards the end or drastically change the design. We got stuff like M2s made for almost a century and they're still riveted boxes despite all the advancements in manufacturing and materials.

No graviton imploder option for myrmidons or archmagi? Legacies didn't happen.

>>96257993
Heavy Assault terminators are good for killing smaller stuff, like Tacticals and stuff. They are okay for that niche.
I must acknowledge Tyrants are better at killing Vets (VEQ is an actual target type now), and their missiles can threaten vehicles. This is true.
One missile for 60 pts is retarded, though. And I don't want cheaper Tyrants; I want shooter Tyrants.

>>96257866
OK but stationary is
>Strength 10
>AP 2
>D3
>24"

>>96258008
Basically: Taking land raiders for your AT means you arent likely to kill whatever needs killing very fast, but it does mean you will get to try and kill it (and not get alpha-struck and taken out like a rapier team/HSS).
Its a tool you might use in your toolbox, but its not enough "on its own". You want some vindicators or other "super-heavy" guns on hand.

>>96257934
the most popular vehicle, besides the rhino, is the land raider and chainfists are much better into those

>>96257814
Seriously? That's all you need for a good list?

>>96258021
Yup, the issue is "when are you going to be stationary AND within melta range"? Under ideal circumstances twin multi-meltas hit like a truck, but thete not going to fire under ideal circumstances. If you stand still outside melta range youre "just" S10 D3 with no armorbane. If youre firing at melta range youre S9 but armorbane d36(so essentially the same).

>>96257810
I am using those. By "enough to make a functional list," I'm talking the fundamentals:

A praetor
A centurion
At least forty tacticals
At least ten plasma guys
At least ten missile guys
At least four rapiers with a Siege Breaker
At least one dreadnought
At least ten termies (for WS5, WS4 sucks shit) and a spartan to put them in
Four rhinos

That's at least 3000 points, basic fundamentals, and only after that can you start adding fun stuff.

>>96258037
Maybe I can live with just S10 desu, it's growing on me. Definitely not interested in the culverins

>>96257987
erm that's a good thing chud! rip off that illegal wargear! tahnk you James for Legacies!

>>96257989
Desu forget the anti tank I'm using it for line hunting, stuff a flamer TSS (or now, a tartaros siege squad or VHSS for more durability) in, and get a 10" + 7" + ~8" reach to burn a fucker's line unit in their deployment zone

>>96258059
>sixty power armor guys
>ten terminators
>three characters
>max size rapier battery
>the fundamentals

The fundamentals is 20 tacticals, a centurion, some rhinos for them, and then a hss OR tss OR some melee elites. And then either a dread or predator.

>>96258059
>At least ten plasma guys
You don't need a dedicated anti-Aux squad

>>96258080
Wrong, you need to get raped. I need all my stuff.

>>96258083
What's anti MEQ these days?

>>96258059
Anon that wasn't even 3000 points in 2.0, point costs have gone down not up

>>96258097
Plasmaguns are pretty good anti MEQ this edition
But the retardation still endures on /hgg/

>>96258097
Plasma, autocannons, volkite. Phosphex? You just make tacticals fail their 3+ saves (or drop an Ap3 template on them)

>>96258119
But also this, plasma is still mathematically decent, it just works differently. Before plasma had a low volume of fire but a high chance of penetrating armor, now plasma has a higher rate of fire but does not have as high a chance to penetrate armor. In terms of actual DPS, especially into marines, its very solid, but in terms of reliable 2+ save killing power its worse.

>>96258097
Destroyers.

>>96258059
Nice numbers you just pulled out of your ass
>A praetor
Unneeded
>A centurion
Unneeded
>At least forty tacticals
That's more units of 10 than objectives you are going to get to
>At least ten plasma guys
You don't need this if you have the rapiers
>At least ten missile guys
????
>At least one dreadnought
Wholly unnecessary this edition
>At least ten termies (for WS5, WS4 sucks shit) and a spartan to put them in
This is pure retardation
>Four rhinos
At least you got that right

>>96258158
Units of 10? You retarded or something? You take tacticals in units of 20 and footslog them, because it looks cooler on the table.

>>96258171
Then what do you need 4 rhinos for you dumbass

>>96257934
There's your problem, you're retarded. More than half of the fights you'd ever get into melee range of are in the 12-14 bands. People will be driving up with a fighting Sicaran, not with a whirlwind scorpius hiding in the very rear.

LR Carrier, Spartan, LR Explorator, Sicaran, Sicaran Venator, Kratos, Cerberus, Typhon, Glaive, Fellblade, Falchion, Mastodon, LR Achilles aren't 10-11

Statistically, the game ends before a powerfist terminator squad ever kills a landraider. 20 powerfist attacks vs AV14 is 0.62 total wounds via glances and 0% chance of killing it. The power of strength 8 weapons vs vehicles is vastly overstated. Chainfists deal exponentially more on the 13-14 big tanks. Just 10 chainfist attacks instead of 20 powerfist attacks into landraider did 8.4 average instead of 0.6 and killed it 41% of the time turn 1.

>>96257993
siege tyrant missiles suck donkey cock actually. They are lascannons except way way more expensive, and lascannons are already unimpressive this edition. A 575 point 10 tyrant krak missile squad is only putting 2 wounds onto a landraider (and that's with him not popping 5+ FNP smokescreen since tyrants arent a threat)
Against AV13, it only jumps to 3.3 average hull points taken off for 575 points.
Same AV13 a Kratos for ~355 instead of 575 does 2.7 average with its 4 lascannons because it counts as stationary while then its melta adds 7.1 more, so 10 wounds instead of 3 wounds (even without adding the autocannon)
For AV14 Kratos does 5.3 with melta plus 1.8 from lascannons, so 7 total while siege only did 2 wounds total.

Kratos is doing +250% more damage than 575 points of siege tyrants while you can buy 3 Kratos tanks or 2 squads of Siege Tyrants.
And the siege tyrants are a fucking pathetic joke in melee, slow, strike last, WS4 and miss and get murdered, only 2 attacks each so they lose 100% of melee fights.

If anyone brings Siege Tyrants for a non-fluff reason in HH3 they're Literally mentally retarded. They are trash

>>96258158
>You don't need this if you have the rapiers
>????

Plasma and Missile squads are portrayed as being extremely common in LI, which means they are an auto-include for the sake of SOVLFUL narrative. Especially missiles. Classic heavy weapons.

>Wholly unnecessary this edition
If you're a waacfag, yes. Dreadnoughts are sovlful, however, and therefore an auto-include.

>This is pure retardation
WS4 termies will instantly crumple against WS5 termies, which were in everyone's lists in 2.0 because they were OP, and given that higher WS is still just as powerful as it was in 2.0, the same principal applies.

>>96258179
Breachers and the plasma squad, which now has 18" range.

>>96258135

You can also ally Mech or use the one consul who can tag in Thallax, because Mechanicum phased-plasma fusils are 3-shot S5 AP3 Breaching 5+ and entire Thallax units can grab them for 30ppm. Very efficient for shoving marine squads into woodchippers, as ever, and not totally useless if you have to kill some terminators.

I am building 10 veterans out of my Saturnine box. What would you kit them out with?

>>96258198
>Breachers and the plasma squad, which now has 18" range.
What? Plasma is 24" still

>>96258275
Oh. New Recruit needs to be updated then

>>96258080
>lists fundamentals
>half of these things aren't in either the Age of Darkness or Saturnine boxed sets

Curious, it appears the game designers disagree. Which makes you wrong.

I thought I was buying from the recaster in china, but turns out the one I used was actually the ukraine one. On the bright side, maybe customs not gonna hold it as many weeks since there's no huge problem with illicit stuff coming from europe like there is from china/mexico.
Oh well, as long as the money goes to someone other than the GW I'll be happy.

>>96258243
Veteran tacs, veteran assault, veteran breachers, or veteran support?

>>96258331
I know this is a low level lazy troll, but with GW, they've sold army boxes, combat patrols and battleforces without a legal army inside of them before. So they can never be accused of actually picking the contents of anything with any sort of conscious decision making.

>>96258362
Then why not simply enter GW HQ, beat GW execs into submission, take control of the company and tell them to make the army boxes useful for once?

>>96258350
Tacs was the plan, but I am open to assaults or supports

I wonder how I could get the bits to turn an AoD Spartan into a cerberus. I know it's only one sprue for the conversion, but it seems impossible to obtain the sprue

Krak MLs looking quite good at killing MEQs

Mark 6 TS during the battle of Prospero: Yes or No, in your based and correct opinion?

>>96258398
unfortunately it seems to be 1 sprue for the gun, 1 sprue that has the gun-mounting area on the front of the tank (if you don't want to use plasticard to build the place the gun sits yourself)

I think I might've seen the big weapon or two on a recast site, but they seemed too overpriced, will have to look and see if there's an option. I own a cerberus still in the box, I'd like to magnetize a Typhon swap for it as well.

Volkite Culverins as Marine killers?

>>96258431
Yes. Because on the cover of A Thousand Sons, if you look closely, you can see a MK 6 marine. Look to the far left.

>>96258449
>heavy bolter with huge ammo hopper backpack
REMEMBER WHAT THE COCKSUCKERS AT GW HAVE STOLEN FROM YOU!

Anyone got a mechanicum scan. I have the book but I want a PDF for my phone so I can look at it instead of doing my job at work.

>>96258482
Last thread or the one before

>>96258482
Yeah, check this thread or the last one, IDR

Anons, what do you do when you feel uninspired? I have more bits and old minis I could ever use, and I've been trying to retool them into a Heresy army I like, but none of the ideas I've really had have appealed to me (In terms of narrative/look, I couldn't care less about gameplay at this point). I've considered pretty much every legion, a few flavours of blackshields, militia and mechanicum, but nothing really sticks in my head long enough.

Pic semi-related, some blackshield Nullificators I made as part of my last attempt.

>>96258449
Man, I'd love to do thousand sons, but frankly I can't afford the bits needed to make them look right, especially since the Achean helmets are no longer for sale. FUCK GAMES WORKSHOP

>>96258498
I read and look at art. BL, FW, Index Astartes, Lexicanum, GW.
A Thousand Sons gave me an appreciation for Thousand Sons, and Prospero Burns is making me like (Heresy-era) Space Wolves

whats corvidae grant again?

not a TS player myself

>>96258552

Psychic test for 5+ rending, and since Rending counts as an auto-6 to wound, that means anything with Breaching goes straight to AP2. Also has another power that reduces enemy movement, but that's rather less straightforward to combo into wild amounts of damage.

>>96258488
>>96258489
I'm seeing everything except mechanicum

>>96258552

Only thing I don't get about the new armour designs is why the new mk2/3 backpacks are so bulbous. Their side profile looks fine but from the front they look so smooth and round. All the other updated marks don't suffer from this.

>>96258037

What's the ability that let's you always move and shoot with the Heavy bonus? Implacable? Slow and Purposeful?

>>96258565
>>96258552
>>96258569
So it's basically made for plasma

>>96258037
>d36
Jesus.

>>96258600
Or Aetherfire or Autocannons

>>96258569
This page alone makes TS better than a lot of other legions Rite of war.
Geh fucked Dark Angels. TS are the new plasma boys.

>>96258621
Or asphyx bolters.

>>96258632
have they fixed those yet or are asphyx bolters still have the pistol tag so you can fire them with pistols if both are in range?

>>96258186
10*2/3*1/2*2 =6.6 HP vs AV13
But yes, you dont fire lascannons at land raiders, who would have thunk. Fire them at predators or vindicators (or sicarans).
>And the siege tyrants are a fucking pathetic joke in melee
Theyre literally just normal cata terminators.

>>96258585
"Stable" the vehicle trait. Or "superheavy" the class. Thats it.

>>96258585
they removed it from the game for non-vehicles and non-deathguard.
The terminator rule isn't stationary, it only allows you to shoot non-volley guns during a volley.

Kratos tank gets Steady so it counts as stationary. And deathguard infantry can walk 4" and shoot Heavy weapons.

>>96258662
and now the AV13 tank doesnt park itself visible to 10 whole siege tyrants in the open, and it's the real number = 3 hull points dealt, you stupid fucker.

>>96258699
You know they ignore cover right?

>>96258703
they don't ignore being dmg 1 because no one would ever have a reason to park a vehicle in the open in front of 575 points of retard's tyrants.

>>96258713
Ooh, what are they going to do? park their vehicles behind 3" of terrain so they cant fire it? Invent JSJ tanks?

>>96258725
you really are mentally retarded. Shall I explain the fine art of driving a predator sideways so it can shoot non-AT squads and your AT squad is out of sight? I know, it's a very tricky move when you've demonstrated you have the IQ of a baked potato.

>>96258748
I dont think exposing your side armor is going to help you much buddy

>>96257798
yeah the fact that mkii was pretty abundant in the early years so why would they shrink from using an extremely common armor type? Sometimes its better to have a more reliable and easily attainable armor than the newest and "better" version. Especially if they need to make field repairs or arm new recruits and units quickly. Same reason why tanks like the Sherman and t34 technically outperformed superior tanks by virtue of being quickly fixed, retrofitted, and maintained in multiple theaters of war.

I NEED MY ASS RAPED

>>96258186
>Just 10 chainfist attacks instead of 20 powerfist attacks into landraider did 8.4 average instead of 0.6 and killed it 41% of the time turn 1.
Too bad chainfists give up being good against infantry for being good against like two targets in the entire game.
Turns out the answer to a Land Raider is another Land Raider carrying terminators that suck against anything besides AV14. As opposed to like 3 Laser Vindicators, which is what all of that ends up costing about

>>96258800
For many reasons, I advise you to play DA.

>>96258800
found the DA player

>>96258725
I drew a picture to simplify this super advanced concept because this IW retard is clearly kindergarten level IQ.

>>96258333
Minis might be cheaper if they were made of fentanyl lmao

>>96258567
>>96252125

>>96258840
NTA but why are the Tac Marines there? Where's the objectives? Are the tyrants in the middle of the board? What's the predators loadout? Is this a corner of the board?

Anyone can draw a perfect example/counter example. It's how likely it is that matters. Not enough info. A pred shooting a tac squad is meh. And if those tyrants can see an objective theyre in a fine place.

>>96258626
correct. That single page makes thousand sons better than dark angels by a very wide margin.
And they actually have more pages. They can also buy psychic powers for all their characters, so your Rending5+ corvidae unit can be joined by a Raptora caster who uses Shroud4+ when the enemy tries to shoot the unit. Or Pavoni to give every model in the entire unit +2 toughness when the unit is fired upon. And Clarity can be used by another guy 18" away to cleanse any one status efffect you want. Melee unit? Stripped immobilize. Ranged unit? Stripped snap shots. TS is playing an entirely different game than 80% of legions in this edition.

Do models arriving from deep strike count as immobile ?

>>96258333
I found the china wartablegames caster to be faster than the BLM ukraine caster. Russia seems to be 'avoid at all costs'. Took the fags 90 days to make the thing and now shipping is running over a month.

>new recruit doesn't have the upgrades for most legions, including legion specific weapons, character upgrades and even stuff like the psychic disciplines for the thousand sons

Sad!

>>96258884
No.

>>96256745 (OP)
Late reply but... ahem
SAQUENME DE URDESH!

>>96258897
Relying on list-building apps atrophies your brain. Keep it up and it will be as small and smooth as Erebus'

>>96258857
Ty broslice.

>>96258800
A paladin of the hekatonistyka? In my thread?

>>96258840
why not level the building with artillery so the terminators have clear LOS?

>>96258884
the specific part is "Entering play from Reserves is considered to be moving for Rules that are affected by a Unit having moved, even if the Models in the Unit that is entering play do not move after being placed."

>>96258955
That would honestly be kinda cool, have destructible terrain that would let players dynamically alter the battlefield, cant go through buildings with your tank? blast it to smithereens and then drive over

>>96258461
Drum mags are cooler.

>>96258973
These rules already exist anon. We truly had it all back in the day. Lost knowledge is a real thing I guess.

>>96258873
>better than dark angels
that's a very low bar to reach anon.

Are basic blade bayonets on-brand for Iron Hands? It’s tickling my tism that they should have chainsaws because they’re higher tech.

>>96258973
That sounds objectively awful, terrain rules are already bad enough, at least let their one feature of actually blocking LOS and movement work

>>96258966
There's also a weird bit where Interdiction Cadres can't react to Reserves movement (it happens before step 2 of the Movement phase)

>>96258955
that's actually the purpose for the Vindicator and Typhon type tanks. Not anti-infantry or tank-hunting work.

"The Demolisher Cannon is most often used in a bunker-buster role, by driving up close to enemy fortifications and firing into them at very short range, and allowing allied forces to assault through the breach. They are also used in urban areas, where they are aimed at the base of an enemy-held building and fired, causing the building to collapse.

The Demolisher Cannon used by Vindicators fires a special siege shell, consisting of an armour-piercing tip, heavier shell casing and a massive explosive charge micro-fused to allow penetration of a building or bunker before detonating."

If it was for tank vs tank combat, it's far more beneficial to have actual high velocity AT guns and lascannons and meltas. But a lascannon will punch straight through a building with a useless overpenetration, while the Siege Cannon tears out the whole bottom floor and collapses the thing.

Probably the most groan-inducing part of the Siege of Terra was when sigismund unit lied down buried in some garbage and under some scrap engine parts, the Sons of Horus commander realized it was an obvious trap, called over all his heavy support squads to just vaporize all the rubble and kill any space marines lying in ambush, and they open fire and Sigismund stands up "haha I was in that other pile of garbage" and doesn't get gunned down by the lascannons pointing into his building. He should've just instantly died there, it would have been what he deserved and BL would have had good writing for once. Alas, there's not a single BL book worth reading.

>>96256766
jesus christ dolphin porn in the first post? why not just put cp in the op next time you faggots

cheers anon

>>96258979
>drum mags are cooler
this is how you spot the british who has never held a gun in his entire life
Drum mags are worthless piles of shit, bulky, unreliable and not much ammunition at all and bad to reload
While belt fed machine guns are instantly badass.

>>96259056
I miss the days when this reply wasn't a joke

>>96259019

You could do it in Titanicus, but considering how few units you had, wasting an entire turn to blow up a building was generally seen as... suboptimal.

Also, it meant having to look up the rules, which was the real disincentive.

>>96259069
I’m an American and you’re fucking gay. Drums LOOK cooler than belts and that’s all that matters in my space soldier battle game.

>>96259047

Can't you do exactly that, and it's actually a good idea sometimes in Ligma? Like when you have a load of infantry hiding out in a building on an objective?

>>96258995
a space marine with a combat blade or bayonet is basically a blade on a machine press

>>96259109
Oh shit you’re right. One with the steel. Thanks, anon.

>>96257258
No anon, ignore these dipshits >>96257434 >>96257628 never download Tixati for any reason. qbtorrent is a much lighter, less bullshit client.

>>96259019
>at least let their one feature of actually blocking LOS and movement work
Sure, although if terrain could be "dealt with" you could have more of it. Have battlefields be more dense because armies can remove particularly problematic pieces.

Its definetly something that you would need to balance, but In think being able to turn impassable/los blocking buildings into ruins wouldnt be too OP.

>>96257925
Thus speaks the mind of a sad, bootlicking poofter who wants to be spoonfed everything. Let me guess, you use Primarchs and named characters don't you, you subnormal waste of skin.

What was interesting and unique was the ability to make any character you wanted according to your own narrative, the fact that some people - to anticipate your next facile bleating - insist on refusing to use the options available and only ever pick BEST THING isn't a reason to take those options away from the rest of us. Sincerely: fuck off to 40k where you belong, you fucking golem.

>>96259171
>Let me guess, you use Primarchs and named characters don't you,
No, theyre gay. Primarchs are too big to field and 99% of all named characters could and should be represented by generic centurions/praetors.

>>96259171
Real shit

>>96258908
Bro wtfs with Urdesh?

>>96257925
Go back to 40k. You want to be spoonfed and argue what’s good and what isn’t, then get the fuck out. Just because you don’t choose the options other people do doesn’t mean you can get rid of them. Go play a fucking boardgame you loser.

>>96259069
NTA, I wish drums were reliable instead of what I heard they are like
>While belt fed machine guns are instantly badass
I thought heavy bolter drums simply carried the belt inside the drum idk

>>96259249
It’s one anon samefagging about it because he was utterly mind raped by the shitty anime horse woman threads.

>>96259069
Skill issue

>>96259265
>. Just because you don’t choose the options other people do doesn’t mean you can get rid of them.
Correct, which is why that isnt the argument I make against consuls having the same options as centurions.

Its not "I/the majority of people dont take this so therefore its bad" its "the presence of these options is detrimental to the design and health of the game, and creates more homogenous and less interesting characters"

thousand sons is the powergaming legion.

>>96259400
As is tradition (yes even in 2e)

>>96259412
>fruity psyker army (Eldar) is consistently the powergamer army in 40k
>fruity psyker army (TS) is consistently the powergamer army in 30k
I see a trend

>>96259400
"yes"

If someone abuses corvidae rending? Yea. But if they dont? Theyre just strong. Its like admech/someone bringing FOTA

>>96259389
I disagree. Blame the WAACFAGS. No forces you to take optimal loadouts.

>>96259436
Futa?

>>96259462
No one forces you, but the very fact you can creates issues in terms of unit design and role. If a chaplain is just a centurion that gives hatred, whats the point of a centurion? If a librarian, chaplain, warmonger, armistos and delegatus all fight the same* because they have the same equipment options, wheres the distinction?

More limited gear options let each consul have a more defined role mechanically, they do a specific thing at the cost of having defined weaknesses. The master of signals isnt just "a centurion that does funky reserves things", hes a centurion that cant into combat, trading melee power for command and control ability. I find that design variant much more interesting.
Could consuls have MORE options than they currently have? Absolutely, the current restrictions are probably a bit too harsh (why cant champions take combat shields or shotguns, for example?) but conceptually I like them being limited.

>>96259495
Wrong. You reek of 40k. It’s about being able to model whatever the fuck you want based on the widest set of options available. These guys are experienced officers and quit trying to justify a shrink in options. Models come first and then the rules. You take something because it’s cool. Who gives a fuck if an armistos takes a thunder hammer and a heavy bolter. It looks cool. Now fuck off back to 40k.

>>96256948
Not great, not terrible. Not a fan of the bird legs, but the studs add character.

Okay I'm ready for Liber Imperium now.

>>96259542
So you concede that its bad game design that makes units obsolete.

Everybody who didn't give their chaplain a power maul as crozious arcanum deserved worse than having their models invalidated. Some things are sacred, violate those principles on your own risk. If you did not give your chaplain a power maul, you are a blatant unapologetic powergaming WAACfag.

I always gave my chaplains a power maul, because that is their badge of office, the tool through which they execute their duty. Some traditions should never be compromised.

>>96256745 (OP)
am I imagining it or was there a SM kit with a rebreather bit that fitted over the bare heads? 40k maybe?

>>96259542
Don't engage with them, they don't have a real opinion either way. They're just being contrarian. 30k is for customization. Not 40k cookie cutter chess pieces HQs.

>>96259069
You know you can have a drum that holds a belt, right? You think they make two versions of the heavy bolter, one that has a belt feed from the backpack and one that feeds from a square drum magazine, rather than the box being just a container for the belt?

>>96259551
I’m not arguing whether it’s good game design or not. I’m talking about removing options which isn’t fluffy. Like the anon said upstairs, it’s about the narrative. So fuck off.

>>96259573
Mine came pre-modeled with a Crozium and fist. I just added a jump pack.

>>96259573
I gave my apothecaries power mauls in 1.0 when they could only have power swords, because I modeled them as Wolf Priest adepts.

>>96259495
No you nerd, the unit's rules are what informs what is logical for the unit to be equipped with, but it shouldn't be the limiting factor beyond things that should be mandatory/actually impossible/impractical to equip.

I.e. a chaplain should always have a crozius since its their badge of office, but an individual chaplain might also decide he's gonna carry a thunder hammer, or combi weapon, or whatever else.

A MOS might not have a power weapon because he's less likely to be in melee to begin with, but that doesn't mean he would be, as a legion officer, forbidden to use one from the legion armoury.

An armistos has a big old 2 hand heavy weapon, but like the MOS he might readily carry around a power weapon, while a boarding shield is logically pretty improbable for him to lug around.

>>96259634
>I.e. a chaplain should always have a crozius since its their badge of office, but an individual chaplain might also decide he's gonna carry a thunder hammer, or combi weapon, or whatever else.
Then whats the point of the crozius? If anyone can have anything why wouldnt everyone just have the optimal loadout?

>>96259643
>what is the point of adding character to my war dollies instead of every single one being indentical slop?

Yeah fuck off back to 40k mate.

>>96259677
But they ARE all identical, because all the consuls end up feeling the same since they all have the same options. If you can give a chaplain and a warmonger the same options theyre going to feel the same.

>>96259683
You see it as "well all the chaplains/individual consul classes will end up the same!" when in reality its already "all the characters will end up the same", you already have identical slop, except its on a much larger scale than what youre complaining about.

>>96259683
The fuck are you talking about?
It doesn't matter if they have the same options or not, they are (your)dudes.
You fucking choose who your warmonger is, and the gear he like to bring.
You decide if your chaplain like to wave around a plasma pistol, or if he has a power fist because he has a taste for bludgeoning giant xeno monsters to death.

(You) are the one that makes them feel different, not the special rules, not the options, you.

>>96259683
What are you giving all your consuls anon assuming this is 2.0. Go ahead. Tell us.

>>96259683
>give my commanders/characters weapons that match their role or lore I made up
>don’t powergame the best options across the board because I’m not an insufferable gay
It’s that easy.

>>96259711
A thunder hammer probably, given its 2,0.

>>96259736
Thanks for proving my point WAACFAG. Now get the fuck out and go back to your shithole called 40k.

>>96259601
One of the most badass chaplain models, and does have a crozius. Add like 10 points for the power fist and I'd let you use that model.

Anyone who tries to argue that it's fluffy to not have to take a crozius arcanum on a Chaplain, a force weapon on a Librarian, or a Paragon Blade on a champion is a waacfag, plain and simple. I don't give a fuck what you do with the other arm, but you're not allowed to swap out your consul weapon and the nerd consuls aren't allowed to have anything heavier than a power weapon, and that's the house rules we already agreed on.

>>96259748
Give me one reason not to do that. Is there some lore reason all these consuls which you assure me are bound to be well equipped legion officers wouldnt be well equipped? Either they get to take whatever gear they want, and would obviously take the best gear they can, or they cant do that and have limited loadouts. But the idea that a legion officer would go "you know what? its a power weapon for me thanks" is just dumb

>>96259573
My chaplain has a maul and a hammer

>>96259774
You’re a disingenuous cunt and have avoided the argument that it’s about your dudes. All weapons have lore that make them stand out. You’re a cocksucking WAACFAG. Now get lost you stupid faggot.

>>96259774
>Give me one reason not to do that
Because you choose loadouts for coolness, not to be a WAAC scumbag that only choose the most optimal things possible, you fucking nerd.

Is it unlikely a MOS would want to lug around a giant hammer? Yes. Is it plausible at least 1 MOS out there fucking loves their giant hammer and any excuse to crush people with it? Hell yeah.

It is unaccepeable how many consuls do not have the option to take a bolter.

>Because you choose loadouts for coolness
The characters in the universe certainly wouldnt. No one goes "well I know I have access to a power weapon, but ill stick to a close combat weapon thanks". Likewise they would obviously take the more powerful (and rare) weapons if they could.

If consuls are all logically all-accessing legion officers not constrained by wargear restrictions they should all take the best shit all the time, because its the best shit and they have access to it.

>>96259774
>the WAACfag’s mind can’t even conceive of choosing things based on coolness rather than being a thatguy homo

Im am fucking mad, fuck GW, fuck GW, fuck GW. Where the fuck are my fucking Daemon Engines, what the fuck dudes why are they so fucking retarded not to give us Daemons and Daemon Engines, are they intentionally bad??

Chainswords are cool

>>96259824
Theyre in the admech book dipshit, where else would they be?

I AM GOING TO TAKE 50 VETERAN TACTICAL SQUADS WITH DISINTEGRATORS AND A VETERAN SUPPORT SQUAD WITH HEAVY DISINTEGRATORS AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP ME

>>96259831
Based.

>>96259831
>the mythical kills itself turn 1 army

aspiring freeblade reposting from the old thread because i have a learning disability (though since im wanting to play knights, it hardly needs to be said)

which cerastus variant is your favorite? does the lancer have any value given the state of questoris combat options, or does WS4 gimp them all too hard?

>>96259822
So were moving from "they should logically have this wargear" to "they should have this wargear because out of universe I find it cool"? I find power axes cool, why would a praetor or centurion use one over an objectively superior weapon like a fist, hammer or paragon blade? Why would, when presented with the option, they take the former rather than the latter?

>>96259821
Coolness as in (you) the human player you nerd.
Fluff wise you can justify it in a million ways.

Maybe they use a power sword because they've had it for a long time? Maybe they're really good with it/trust it as a reliable weapon. Maybe because its relatively compact so easy to carry around while they do their important work, compared to a giant fucking heavy hammer.

They are soldiers with a job, not fucking loot goblins carrying a pair of disintegrator pistols,a pair of hand flamers as well, a thunder hammer and a sack of phosphex bombs because 'its the best shit'.

>>96259851
Atrapos is my fave. Preordered it back in the day after saving up from the preview it was shown in.

>>96259831
I will take 1 land raider and defeat you

>>96259851
Acheron is my favorite but lancer is coolest.

>>96259884
Atrapos is lame and I will not acknowledge it

>>96259891
Acheron is the flamethrower guy right? With the heavy bolter and reaper chain fist? That’s my man.

>>96259856
>been using the weapon since their days as a sergeant, tried and true
>weapon is a symbol/relic of their company
It literally takes a single iota of creativity, but that’s clearly beyond you.

>>96259897
beep boop, bad taste detected. Macro eradication protocols activated.

>>96259885
nta but how? a land raider can't claim objectives

>>96259903
Yeah and the machine spirit is so miserable only psychos or die-hard nobles can pilot them

>>96259913
The sheer power of the machine spirit will see me to victory

>>96259908
>>been using the weapon since their days as a sergeant, tried and true
And? Theyve been using a bolt pistol since they were sgt, they would obviously take an archaeotech pistol over it if they could.

>>weapon is a symbol/relic of their company
Then it would be on a banner.

Theyre soldiers, officers even, not little children who would wear a ripped old shirt because it has spiderman on it.

>>96259897
>black hole gun
>lightsaber
>machine spirit has wants to hunt the biggest enemy on the field
>somehow not cool

>>96259862
>Maybe they use a power sword because they've had it for a long time?
Being an officer they can just requisition it too.

>>96259821
I gave my Siege Breaker a power axe because I have the old double headed one and thought it looked cool. This game is part coolness and part self policing for the love of the setting. If you want optimized wargear at all time go back to 40k with its free wargear. In 30k sometimes a marine tech wizard just needs to gut a guy and a power sword works.

>>96259934
>>somehow not cool
It's too try hard. It isn't naturally cool it's too forced.

>>96259927
So it’s like trying to break a bronco in? They fight back while you try to control the machine?

>>96259932
Yeah, you’re an insufferable WAACfaggot and genuinely not worth the effort of trying to explain creativity and the value of having options to.

>>96259932
>take an archaeotech pistol over it if they could.
Bad example, of course they would, but its limited to Praetors for a reason. No that reason doesn't support your argument because this is an example of artificial scarcity for a logistical game abstraction. Power swords on a Master of Signals would not be unheard of. This isn't 40k codex compliant bullshit. Even scavenging gear they could have found one. Not everyones army has a "lobby" they resupply to full health, have access to the entire armor across tha galaxy and deploy fresh". Again, common items like power weapons, plasma pistols, etc would be common to be spread out.

>>96259831
>need at least 2 apexes, so a delegatus and a praetor, that's about 250 after wargear
>5 vet tac squads with all disintrgrators and presumably 2 blasters per squad since you're using the heavy disints elsewhere comes to 230 per squad
>1 vet sup squad with heavy disints is 365
>fuck it, throw in a Centurion too, about 100 points, to bring along 2 units of max double disint saturnine (500 each)
>~2865 points for 40 disintegrators, 10 disintegrator blasters, and 34 heavy disintegrators

>>96259944
Basically. Some knights are so macabre only certainly people can manage to control them. Bonding with a knight can be fatal if the scion fucks up or isn't fit.

Stop arguing with the logistics troll. Their small brain cant comprehend social decorum and that everyone isn't a try-hard meta gamer in the least meta game GW has. Phrases like "I take ownership of my models" and "I don't min max when given the opportunity because I'm not a dick and have my own army lore that doesn't support it" frighten them.

>>96259965
>Be me
>Get Jacked on traditional weights and synthetic 30k drugs
>Make sweaty love to some sexy 30k futuristic woman
>Deploy to the battlefield in my Acheron
>Torch mother fuckers and rip tanks apart with my reaper chain fist
>Maybe survive and get to rinse and repeat
YA IM THINKING IM BACK

>>96256948
nice job on the conversion

>>96257313
tacticals should be in legacies

>>96260011
Bonding with a knight forcibly changes your personality so you'd end up a dour bore with a thousand yard stare and a constant hunger for barbeque.
Come on Anon this is why so many knight houses turned to Slaanesh you gotta know this stuff

Is it me, or are Morlock Terminators... fun?

>>96260059
Okay so I can’t smile during sex and that’s a price I’m willing to pay. I can still enjoy it in my head.
>love me sex
>love me bbq
>simple as

>>96260084
You're forgetting the obsession with the burning-of-the-land-and-salting-of-the-fields come ON Anon you're coming across as one of those guys that doesn't provide his lance with command check bonuses

Anons, send help.

I wanted to do some shoulder mounted heavy weapons, but all the hipfire ones just look cooler.

>>96260083

>5 Terminators, 4 of them with Graviton Guns, one of them with a Graviton Shredder
>Eternal Warrior (1)
>Iron Hands
>Throws out 6 S6 pinning(1) shots every turn.
>Refuses to explain.

>>96260083
Thinking positive about anything 3.0 is strictly forbidden. Please line up for summary execution.

>>96260115
You're just dumb

>>96260115
Fuck I wish my recaster had all the proteus pattern weapons.

Am I stupid for thinking a predator with 2x heavy flamers and a graviton cannon cannon could do some work? Avoids the issue of the all flamer predator being useless on the approach or if pinned, buy can still status 3 different units since the graviton cannon is a blast and doesn't care that much about missing, and it's only 120 points a pop

>>96260183
Proteus rotor cannons are just delicious.

>>96259573
A crozius kinda looks like an axe too, just saying

websites in UK already selling saturnine for equivalent of $155 each. Can't wait for mk2 price drop when GW sends the second wave to US and has to allow stores to break the 15% limit or they refuse to pick up any saturnines.

Give me ideas for a fluffy thousand sons list.

>>96260232
A bunch of corpses

>>96259584
Can a drum have the belt showing? Irdk why Ogryn guns have that belt showing

>>96259773
Plz agree on a Master of Signals at least having a power weapon oof. Even sergeants can bring better stuff

>>96259845
So that's where the Transhuman was all along

>>96260083
Fun yes, but there is some caution to be had with the 50-70 point terminator category, because it's very easy to get them insanely expensive as a unit for their durability.
That goes for not just Morlocks but Justaerin/Huscarls/Lernaens/Dominators

>>96260204

Fuck I wish I'd had those when I was making my Terror Troopers. The new ones look decent for what they are (It's kind of hard to REALLY fuck up "handheld gatling gun") but those are fucking peak.

>>96260255
He never could, it's not his job.

>>96259934
I think sappers and grenadiers were traditionally associated with axes, which they used to clear the way and such. Power axe and Phosphex bomb

>>96259584
your picture is of a 50-round drum on an MG42, allowing 2 seconds of firing before running out of ammo. It was incredibly shitty. Meanwhile, the heavy bolter backpack feed is more like GAU8 on A10 warthog with 1,350 rounds of ammo. The only reason to go with shitty drums would be if someone was so weak they could only carry a gun with 50 rounds of ammo, but power armor + genetic superstrength removes any reason at all for a marine to carry such shitty weaponry with such limited ammo count.

>>96260232
>fluffy
in 30k that's as simple as having a sorcerer and psychic HQs and literally anything else that you want.

>>96260232
go to Home Depot, get a 50lb bag of Quikrete playground sand, apply elmer's glue onto your base and dab liberally, you're done with thousand sons.

>>96260282
The ammo belts of the FW heavy weapons just activates neurons deep in my brain that make me happy.

>>96260277

Morlocks are pretty durable as these go. Cataphracts, so T5 2+ 4++, all shooting is -1 strength because Iron Warriors and Eternal Warrior (1) means it takes two Disintigrator or Lascannon shots (with or without bonus) to put them down.

Melta still works on them though.

I might be overthinking this. On page 59 on the Traitors codex, ‘up to two Legionaires in this Unit may each have one item from the Legion Equipment’ I cannot for the life of me, find Legion Equipment-do they mean ‘Armory of the Legiones Astartes’ starting page 337? Where the heck are the points for them?

>>96260290
>>96259584
Belt fed or bust.

>>96260309
Up front bud, after table of contents

>>96260290
I don't think heavy bolters have ever been shown to have rates of fire approaching the MG42, which was around 1,200 rounds per minute.
Depictions vary wildly like everything in Warhammer but generally they're closer to a M2 .50 cal in RoF which is about 450 rounds per minute.

I'm not actually sure how many heavy bolter rounds a marine backpack could hold, but a Bradley holds around 900 rounds of 25mm so 1000-1350 of (kind of) 20mm for a marine seems fairly doable.

He'd still need reloads in any protracted firefight, but I figured marines are constantly getting resupplied via drop pod in most circumstances.

>>96260309
The wargear page anon, 'legion equipment' is just nuncio vox and augury scanner.

>>96260307
Sure but two of them fully kitted out costs as much as a contemptor, who can take a fair bit more punishment. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take them, just make sure they're put to really good use because the opportunity cost is quite high.

>>96260310
enjoy ripping your ammo belt apart when you try to advance through no-man's land because there was a stick you didn't notice

>>96260287
I thought that was more akin to the Royal Horse Guard's with Farrier Axes, it had a spike you could slam into the skull of a dying horse to put it out of its misery, and an axe blade to chop the hoof off (they used the hooves like a dog tag, to count every dead horse in a combat unit of cavalry)

But it could also be a thing among grenadiers or sappers, not a huge napoleonic nerd.

>>96260329
* if I ever do White Scars I'll have at least a unit with power axes based on their homeworld tradition.

>>96260122
nta, but what about HH newfags?
>all Journal Tacticas are half the size of Arks of Omen installments
>Drop Site Massacre pt1, pt2, etc
>Legacies PDF debacle
3.0 sounds like a rushed 2010 era video game, and i didn't bother with those either.
will people default to 1.0 or 2.0? the proliferation of physical 2.0 rules sounds higher than 1 or 3. i've slowly built up a stock of official plastic for dirt cheap, for about 4 years now. 3.0 was announced right when i was planning on taking a vacation to start to really dive deep in to 2.0

>>96260232
One of the main book characters was a huge fukken nerd that liked robots and magic you can do literally anything and it's fluffy.

>>96260311
>>96260318
Found it-I swear I’m not this dumb. I gotta figure out what to do with the 2.0, Mark III, 3.0 boxed sets for my Thousand Sons.

>>96260310
ooh, baby, something about belt feeds is just so sexy.
I almost want to buy perturabo, but I don't like a single thing about him other than that his arm guns have the proper feeds.

>>96260339
I think power axes are underrated. You save a fair bit of points, they trade surprisingly well into hammers/power fists of equal or worse WS by mitigating the incoming damage, plus they give zero shits about eternal warrior.

>>96260349
Thank you guys

>>96260325
>local anon loses mind over how ammo belts are impractical and unrealistic on the 8 foot tall super soldier in space armour firing a giant rocket machinegun from the hip while running at 40km/h

>>96260345
The rulebooks get instantly leaked, the legacies pdf is something newfags are going to be the least histrionic about because they aren't the ones who put an inferno pistol on their mortifactor.
All the places that were adamant they were going to stick with 2.0 are already bleeding support. They did the exact same thing when 2.0 was announced and it went nowhere.

WS army idea- mostly command jetbikes, backed by vindicators, and an acheron with that fear (2) debuff. Apply max pressure turn 1.

>>96260316
the only way space marine combat makes sense is if a steady stream of thralls is shuffling forward to hand out reloads. But that is logically batshit because a long line of thousands of slowly shuffling thralls coming back and forth would get absolutely mowed down by orks spraying their guns indiscriminately, even without space marine scouts and sniper units just instantly targeting every thrall trying to come bring your army reloads for their tiny 50 round drum mags.

>>96260352
mmm, yeah bby, pump that ammo through that belt.

>>96260379
you just know there's an emperor's children version where a woman's voice makes noises as the charge gets pumped into the chamber. And a louder noise as its about to overload.

>>96260379
imagine how much liquid is pulsing through that column to get shot out the end at such extreme temperature.

>>96260367
You would only see thralls near dedicated landing ships, probably not even thunderhawks.
Supply pods do exist and have been shown in media, though.
Those + marines having a more practical combat load of ammunition distributed around their armor would make things more or less believable.

>>96260379
>targetting sight is connected to the handle which is connected to nothing
For how though?

>>96260367
There are a lot of solutions besides "literal slave drags an ammo cart"

Stuff like putting ammo and supplies in the same rhinos/thunderhawks/land raiders/drop pods they ride in

If a marine assignment doesn't have mechanized transport, it usually has air transport. The only time they're stuck walking is when shit has gone incredibly wrong, and that's how you get shattered legions with lasguns.

>>96260383
read 60+ heresy books, never once did they resupply ammo from a pod. And the idea is extremely silly in the first place, drop pods are visible for miles and miles as a weak point killbox, the enemy could shoot them out of the sky (suddenly your army has no ammunition), and when they land and try to go to the pod, the enemy throws grenades onto it, fires krak missiles onto the pod or a plasma cannon or sets their whirlwind tank to fire onto each ammo pod as a unit goes over to reload (and auspex tech and space imaging allows each artillery to readily see where each pod has landed)

It's just a suspension-of-disbelief thing because it's entirely nonsense.

>>96260391
it's connected by Macragge bluetooth

>>96260406
I believe you

>>96260011
>>96260084

Bolt Pistols, Volkite Serpentas or Hand Flamers for Assault Destroyers, lads?
I'm feeling the siren call of the Serpentas mostly because I love Volkite.

So, the PDF did not redeem Saboteurs. No combi-melta, restricted to a power knife. What now? What are Saboteurs for?

>>96260439
sucking

>a 10 man squad from tortuga costs 90 bucks during a sale
Nigga what the fuck? You're telling me people make entire armies out of this overpriced piece of shit?

>>96260391
it's actually the real lore, I'm surprised you haven't noticed, but no space marine scopes are ever used with helmet eyeballs.
They only ever shoot with scoped guns at chest level or held out in an arm.
No way they could ever get proper eye relief with the way scopes are placed and that bulky helmet.
It's only ever the scouts with their helmets removed that use the scope manually.
The lore is that every suit of power armor has its own communications and targeting systems in the helmet which integrate with the guns without even looking into the scope. The really big antennas added to some recon squads are only for space marine scouts trying to contact other units maybe miles away over mountains or maybe to spaceships in orbital overwatch positions.
They can wirelessly connect with their gun within 5 feet with zero issue.

I guess technically there's no reason space marines couldn't slap the scope on the bottom of the gun or the side of the gun (like that upside down space wolves bolter)

>>96260435
Serpentas if you must upgrade. Hand flamers are a joke. Bolt pistols save you some points and have some variety and because you don't have enough serpentas.

is using an aircraft heavy list a douch-y thing to do, I'm a NL player btw

>>96260454
I'm looking at a metal veteran with bolter, and he is very much looking through the scope with his helmet on.

The scope is kinda on the side of the gun though, so I know what you're saying.

>>96260435
volkite are the actual useful upgrade.
Really though, you want the rad rockets. A single lad can chuck out his phage rockets to soften up squads, or at close range he can volley fire it for 4 rad rockets per turn.

Once you've phage'd a squad, the volkites will be doing that much more damage.

>>96260455
dont you take hand flamers purely for firestorm volleyfire?
the unit you're shooting is gonna be T3 anyway due to rad grenade spam

then again the volkite wounds on 2s...but the flamers are templates

>>96260362
so i start from the beginning, while everyone else is arguing about it?
the turn around on 2.0's life span and gw's bold faced lies about "not changing much" with 3.0 don't signal to me that decision makers in the company have quality in mind right now

>>96260399
I think your logic falls apart because they send marines down in drop pods all the time, but somehow ammunition is too valuable to risk that way.

Are there any power weapons with positive +A attack modifiers, outside paired claws and Reaping? I want to see if that's all my options

>>96260468
hand flamers are their optimal are wounding on 4s, they can fuck off.

>>96260475
if you're a WE, falax blades give +2 attacks... but they're quite literally twin lightning claws but without any beneficial special rules.

>>96260456
It's less douchey and more risky. Aerial Reserves and Reserves aren't the same thing, so guys like the Master of Descent and Master of Signals can't do anything to affect an Aerial Reserve roll.
What that means is that how much of your air force actually shows up during each game is basically random. Even taking a thunderhawk is high risk high reward, because it hits like a truck and is nearly impossible to kill on intercept, but that's 700 points that could just decide to show up for only one turn.

>>96259845
Hey as long as they score enough vp that turn, they can still win.

>>96260466
The rockets did seem good.
Is there a specific bit I need to represent the weapon?

>>96260489
Not really. The destroyer kit comes with a missile launcher, which is visually distinct from other missile launchers, but no one is going to care if you use a normal one.

>>96260475
The kentucky fried legion gets +1 attack versions of almost every power weapon for a slight points increase, so it depends what you're playing.

>>96260501
Roger, thank you kindly anon.
I'll have to test some poses with the heavy weapons kit to make sure a jump pack fits.

>>96259851

I didn't see the new thread, so here's my response from over there:

No problem, I've been putting a lot of thought into them, so glad someone finds it useful!

We don't get to take marines at all, so no need to think about them. Without Aux for scoring, we lack any Line options (though Lasrifles are only Line 1). The mechanicum units do not score at all (except Domitar with Vanguard 2, so not great). That means you will definitely want at least 4 Armigers for scoring objectives.

Mendicant does unlock an Armiger detachment without taking an Aspirant, so that's great, making a knight more susceptible to status effects with Aspirant sucks.

The Atrapos absolutely fucks as far as Cerastus chassis go, otherwise I prefer the Castigator. It gets enough attacks in combat to be somewhat meaningful, and it's guns kill marines. The Acheron is great with the Arbalester rank, but keep in mind that status effects still mean you won't get that AP3, so I tend to skip it.

I like the lancer, but I don't think it's very good. It might work with Acuteller though, giving it a fair chance to snipe out the enemy Warlord with damage 5 attacks. That might be the best way to score Vow of Execution. Lancer is also a good candidate to score Vow of Alacrity.

Something else to remember is that each Knight gets a different vow, and you only have access to 5 vows in an army... so a lot of the time you will have all 5 to score. With that in mind, think about the vows and which knight can do the job. Knights suck at scoring, so need all the bonuses they can get.

taking destroyers and spamming rad grenades with them just feels dirty and cheesy

think i'll take the smurf ones with 2 rad missile launchers, still have something with phage and AP3, and have panic 1 boltguns

use rad grenades for volleyfire if you can do that

>>96260362
nah, people are still sticking with HH1 or HH2, it's just they don't need to post about it anymore since it's already been a month since the flop of 3rd edition.
The game is still not selling, which would've been the actual indicator that customers minds had changed. But no, online stores that were 15 available on 7/11 still have 11 copies available on 8/5, 25 days later. New players are not purchasing saturnine boxes and joining the hobby. It's just people have already accepted the state of how bad things are and moved on.

>>96260524
>it's just they don't need to post about it anymore since it's already been a month since the flop of 3rd edition.
Translated
>You can't see anybody playing it, they won't talk about, they won't post pictures of them playing it, they won't organize events for it, but they're definitely doing it because that's convenient for my narrative

>>96260345
Nothing any of the fags on this thread of queers matters
What is your local group doing?
If they are staying in 2.0/1.0, stay there. If they are moving on to 3.0, go there.
Nothing fags here or on YouTube matters all that matters is your local scene.
But.
If you are completely new, then just build your shit as it is on the box. Besides shit like Tartaros missing power fists (which they FAQed back) if you just have current GW kits your shit is legal for literally every edition available right now
> B B BUT MAYBE IN 4.0
Literal retards and just faggots looking for excuses NOT to get off their asses and paint their army or buy/print models.

>>96260450
are you paying in pesos?

>>96260607
Unironically based. Everybody should stop caring about what people online think, you will never encounter 99% of them.

When Breachers and MK2 assault squad, GW?

>>96260484
Soooo, what you are saying is 4 Storm Eagles with Conk termies....

>Played a couple of games with the new edition
>Regularly have units reduced to leadership 3 or 1 after losing an assault
Started wishing I had that DA legion trait...

>>96260433
Damn that is some juicy lore. So I guess I never asked but are machine spirits sentient? It talks about how the machine has bore witness to massacre. They make it sound like the Acheron remembers. Someone want to elaborate? Seems interesting.

>>96260730
Hopefully soon. I need to know if the breachers will be an upgrade kit with just weapons and shields.

>>96260607
>Literal retards and just faggots looking for excuses
i mean, seems like 4.0 and how gw treats 3.0 are valid concerns for newfags too. currently, because of 3.0 is out, 1.0 and 2.0 are now static; meanwhile, 3.0 is going to need to find itself
i appreciate /hhg/'s responses because what it sounds like is i have bad luck, and 3.0's release means i have an extra research project to do on what is and isn't in 1.0 and 2.0 before i commit anything

Winner tops???

>>96260748
New heads, too, but I think that's what they said in the stream.

>>96260743
Knights have the personalities of the previous pilots plus the machine spirit itself so it's mostly like a gestalt. A very violent gestalt.

>>96260738
The enemy cannot melee you if you don't consent, anon :^)
What's going on?

>>96260749
Don't bother with 2.0, it's easily the worst version of HH.
>Absolutely abhorrent internal balance
>Even worse cross faction balance
>Obviously unfinished rules and issues that never got an FAQ
>Rules copy-pasted over straight from 1.0 regardless of whether they still fit
>Handful of rules and units that are so far above everything else the whole game warps around them (Brutal, dreadnoughts, myrmidons)
>Blatant faction favouritism in the rules. If you didn't play IF or DA you were considered to be a NPC
People like to complain 3.0 is a rushed, unfinished rules set. But it can't hold a candle to how unfinished and poorly thought out 2.0 was. People only stick to it because of stockholm syndrome, because they started playing during it and don't know better, or because they're IF or DA players that want to continue getting free wins without having a shred of conscious thought.

>>96260804
A 4" reposition does in no way save you from jump pack units and their 5" set up move. It's impossible to avoid close combat, unless it's something like footslogging cataphractii trying to charge you.

>>96260523
If they didn't want to get rad grenaded on, they wouldn't have let your destroyers reach 8" range. Bolt pistols are so silly omg

>>96260828
Veteran Assault? Idk what to shoot those guys with. They might be the one target AP3 Disintegrators are effective against, but I haven't tried it

>>96260439
>the PDF did not redeem Saboteurs
Charging HSS and Rapiers?

>>96260846
Veteran assault, dark furies, praetorian command squads with jump packs, even assault marines are a headache for shooting units like tactical marines or support squads. And that's in addition to the units bum-rushing you out of their rhinos...

>>96260523
Rad grenades do less damage than the volkite serpentas
If you hate fun just take normal destroyers with missile launchers and shoot from a bit further away. The UM ones are kinda shit, they forgot the special rules and force you take 10 of them minimum. Panic1 on 18" bolter really doesn't make up for it

>>96260861
Awright this might not be a ranged edition after all

>>96260881
Nvm forgot tanks exist lmao

>>96260439
False Colours now also prevents enemy charges, and doesn't drop until an enemy unit passes an int check from within 6", OR after the saboteur shoots or ended a charge move in base to base contact.
Meaning a saboteur cannot be the target of volley fire or overwatch.
Infiltrate him on a flank or near a backline, and charge a HSS or rapiers. That's 95 points invested to shut down around 200 points.
Can also stop tacticals from scoring by locking them in combat.
With dreads now being WS 4 he can even tie up a dreadnought, and possibly slap it to death with his meltabombs.
Can also infiltrate him on an objective and give him Line 1 with a MoS. Real headache to deny him scoring with False Colours up.
That's a lot of utility for a mere 95 points unit. What kind of miracles did you expect from such a cheap unit? Even a naked tactical squad is already 100 points.

>>96260888
Those tanks can't shoot at units locked in combat from turn 1 onwards.
>But your units lost combat and ran away!
Sweeping advance is gone, so now units just use Pursue and stay locked in combat.

>Thallax kit only comes with two special weapons for six bots
Any mechanicum players know an easy way to source extra thallax weapons? I yearn to make a 6-bot posse of phased plasma fusils to bully marines with. 3D printing is not an option available to me.

>>96260927
Lex-ay Argames-way

I'm almost done with my first saturnine. I'm doing good.

>>96260808
that simplifies it a bit more.
now that i think about it, my current local might not even factor into the equation, so i might as well be thorough.
3.0 is less than a month old, right? not only hasn't it hit liquidators yet, people need more time for arguing about it

Iron Warriors could replace the bolt pistols on destroyers with Shrapnel Pistols, right?

Fucked up and posted some pics from my last game in the old bread. Last outing of the Dios Mío terminators before I head back to school.

>>96261009
Both games I played against this guy showed how well blocks of corrupted infantry work as tar pits

>>96260996
3.0 hasn't even been out for two weeks yet.

>>96261021
First time I ever got to use Raldoron’s combi-flamer. I didn’t use him much in 2.0, but we discovered that he was almost purpose built to dispatch Gal Vorbak

Blue Thousand Sons in the heresy?

>>96261026
Dunno why that last one randomly rotated. Kor Phaeron and this praetor are proxying as Zardu and a blade slave. The other blade slave got one shot by a perils that Zardu suffered. Zardu then failed this charge, after which my opponent conceded. He had some lousy dice this game, so it was understandable.

>>96261025
for separate reasons, the last few weeks has felt like an eternity even though days are slipping through my fingers

>>96261009
hell yeah

>>96261032
anon you literally posted it

>>96261103
Yeah but what do you think of it?

Candy red saturnine terminator!

>>96261139
one of the times upping the saturation on my camera doesn't really help with the picture.
Saturation saturnine, hee hee.

>come, my child. Be free

>>96261157
>come with me, let's go and see, a place called candy red island!

>>96261117
who cares what /hhg/ thinks there's clearly lore precedence in the art you could always relegate the colors toa single unit or something if you're that nervous about doing it.

>>96260899
>What kind of miracles did you expect from such a cheap unit?
Explode a 220 pts Land Raider and delay 225 pts of terminators
Sweep 250 pts of HSS
Nah but bullying non-melee units it'll have to be I guess. Can't actually kill them though, just pursue and pursue and pursue...
I did think about giving it Line 1. Seems like a misuse of a MoS. But I guess he can score just fine without him, that's a good point anon, thanks :D

>>96260997
>Worsen Pinning
>Increase shrapnel cost by +50%
>Remove Hammer of Olympia's reroll
>Remove HoO's Fury of Olympia, meaning Shrapnel Bolters will never fire 3 shots
It fucking sucks, and John French should be raped.
But yes, in theory you could replace them

So can units Fury of the Legion with things like Shrapnel and Asphyx Bolters?

>>96261258
No

>>96260997
Yes, but why would you
You are paying 4ppm to get 10" range bolt pistols with pinning 0 when you can pay 5ppm to triple your damage output and the sergeant can chuck phosphex bombs. You don't need the pinning 0 and it's probably not going to do anything most of the time

>>96260468
Don't listen to him. Hand flamer have a huge damage potential. Yes serpentas wound on 2s but you have to roll to hit. If you can cover 3 enemies with the template you are doing more damage with them

So can you run your trait as knight errants, and you don't get a legion trait but you don't lose out on leadership if you run Rubio or Garro?

>>96261284
I suppose he could swap a single pair of pistols or two, right? Pinning need only a successful hit, right?

>>96260468
>firestorm volleyfire?
Wait you can volley templates? Full templates, no 1d3 auto hits?

>>96261414
Yes, full templates. The wall of death rule (D3 auto hits) no longer exists.

>>96261284
because you want to have 10 guys pop out of a drill and open up with pistols firing frag shells into something because you think that's cool?

It's not about whether it's good, it's about sending a message.

>>96260232
Unironically Interdiction Cadre spam fits descriptions in both A Thousand Sons and the Black Books of them teleporting through psichic-powered archways to attack Wolves during the Burning of Prospero.

>>96261428
>Risen Rubricae but 30k
Fuckers buried themselves in sand for 10000 years

>>96261428
>Unironically Interdiction Cadre spam fits descriptions in both Hammer of Olympia and the Black Books of them IW digging a fucking hole

Are there generic units where everyone can take a meltabomb? I thought Destroyers were going to be the guys, but I heard they don't do that this time around

>>96260808
>Absolutely abhorrent internal balance
As opposed to The Pieplatespam Heresy that is 1.0?
>Even worse cross faction balance
Mmm yeah, it's not like Mechanicum, Custodes, and TSons could make the game a foregone conclusion *by complete accident* nevermind if someone was *trying* to fuck you in 1.0...
>Obviously unfinished rules and issues that never got an FAQ
lol, lmao: Crusade.
>Handful of rules and units that are so far above everything else the whole game warps around them (Brutal, dreadnoughts, myrmidons)
Brutal and Dreads are an easy fix with basic houserules(apply *after* saves instead of before, no more Talons - one slot, one dread), and Myrmidons is a Don't Play With Shitheads sitch.

The notion that 2.0 is even in the same galactic quadrant as 3.0 in terms of shitfuckery and imbalance is a joke. Not a funny joke either, like a really cringe Dad Joke but told by a dad with no comic timing and who's a little bit retarded so he has to tell it three or four times to get it all out in the right order.

I dunno if you're just wearing beer bottle bottom-thick nostalgia goggles or you're just a rancid cheesemonger who liked 1.0's broken lists that 2.0 pissed on, but either way get a fucking grip eh.

>>96261477

Possibly unhelpful for Legions, but Thallax can, for 25ppm if you don't also want cooler guns. Otherwise I think you're down to a fairly sparse list of legion-specifics like Sanguinary Guard.

>>96261490
Custodes were also fucking obnoxious in 2.0. In a "I took too many of the one plastic troop box, so you're fucked way". Custodes both seem worse from a unit to unit perspective, and can't play objectives in 3.

>>96261447
Headhunters can

>>96261496
You can consul thallax in anyways, close enough.

>>96261117
taking inspiration from visions art is based as fuck and if anyone tells you otherwise beat their heads in

I played a game of 3.0 against myself at the LGS today (the HH community in general is non-existent, meanwhile there were 3 40k games going at the same time).
Army A (710)
>Centurion with charnabal sabre, plasma pistol, vexilla
>10 tacs with power fist, combat vets
>rhino with combi-bolter, multimelta. dozer blades
>vanilla spartan (logistical benefit)
Army B (715)
>Centurion with chainaxe and power axe, paragon of battle
>10 tacs with charnabal sabre
>vanilla rhino
>land raider carrier with hull lascannons (logistical benefit)
>dreadnought with melta, gravis melta, and havoc launcher (war engine detachment)
The board was the 4'x6' standard and terrain was placed as instructed in the core rules. Both objective markers were placed in cover, with one in the dreaded medium terrain and another in a small patch of light terrain.
Deployment was Hammer & Anvil, and mission was Take and Hold.
This resulted in an awkward case of both armies just slamming a tac squad down on a defensible objective, while A's spartan and rhino and B's centurion in land raider, rhino, and dreadnought had the duty to kill each other's tacs.
I'm not sure if I misread at point or just rolled bad but the vehicle barely damaged each other; rhino A returned fire to shear off some HP from the spartan and then the next turn the spartan reaction fired it to death with lascannons.
The rules, despite the verbosity, often fail to mention things happening in sub-phases: If you rush you can't charge, but I only noticed it during the charge phase section. The challenges somehow managed to be whiffs as even invulnerables were made. The battle was called t3 with 11 vp for A vs B's 12, as a roll-off decided that the lone remaining tactical with the centurion did not constitute a "majority" and Line didn't apply. Then the centurion died after B's rhino and the land raider shot him in the face with all their guns.
AV14 feels like it'll be a problem.

>>96257225
yes

>>96258449
Magnus coming in with the T-Rex arms

>>96261021
Nice to see some Blood Angels for once, seem kinda forgotten here….maybe a subconscious desire to stray away from 40k? Ionno but I hardly see em mentioned.

What’s with the guys with no heads? Was that the WB guys choice to be spooky or just unfinished??

You should be allowed to use krak grenades and melta bombs on infantry and terminators. If it was all you had why wouldn't you?

>>96261565
You must be new or this is bait. There are notorious BAnons in hhg and that's all I will say on the matter

>>96261579
Only if for each miss, your unit gets hit by the grenade instead :^)

>>96261525
Wait, you brought a Spartan at 715 pts? That could be why AV14 is a problem, maybe. Thanks for the battle report, anon
Seems the Multi-melta didn't deliver, or did it

>>96261595
I mean the land raider was packing the equivalent to a 6-man lascannon HSS but it felt so flaccid against the spartan. Multimelta jetbikes or HSS in rhinos might be a lot better than lascannons in 3.0.

>>96261614
Uh oh, I was counting on LR's half a dozen lascannon to be my antitank. Maybe Multi-melta aren't so bad

>>96260738
>Started wishing I had that DA legion trait...
DA trait doesn't work when loosing assault because the modifiers are on the roll and not on the characteristic itself. Take their trait for sure but that's not going to help you here.

>>96261625
The problem is that even with armorbane, you need to roll a 14+ on a d6+9 to damage. In other words, every successful lascannon hit fails to do anything 66% of the time.

>>96261587
>corvus corax

>>96257560
we said night lords damn you

>Inspired by this, Malcador ordered the other Space Marine primarchs to appoint
Chaplains who would ensure the spiritual wellbeing of their Legion and enforce the psyker ban. These officers were to be picked from those Space Marines who were the most steadfast in their duties, and who had demonstrated the strongest loyalty to their primarch and to the Emperor.

Imagine being the TS Chaplain handpicked by Magnus to stop your Legion from doing wizard shit

AV14 is a problem. Go read through the weapon profiles and understand there are few things that are going to take down a tank like that very quickly

Are conversion beamers the way to go for contemptors now? Lowered durability and WS don't mean as much when you're in an isolated corner of the table, and lower BS is mitigated by blast.

>>96261777
The fact that you think that's a problem indicates that you are the problem.

>>96261580
Oh I’m a newb here, no point denying. I very literally was checking here for 2.0 info maybe a day or two? before the first big 3.0 article dropped. I read 1d4chan for years. Was from 5e. I got the book and played a game of 10e and realized my ignorance of GW games had far outpaced my desire for lore. I always wanted to make a company of /mydudes/ and rock them on the board and figured HH was the way. Bad timing on my part, which is ironic since my old expensive hobby was playing drums.

Seen BA mentioned very little since 3.0 stuff dropped. If it was moreso before than that leads me to believe they got stuck in the middle. Im just over here turning 40k Deathwing Knights into Crimson Paladins with bad greenstuff skills and stupid levels of sanding, man. If I’m completely missing somethin please enlighten me

>>96261625
multi-melta are absolutely horrible this edition. 8" range is an instant non-starter. S8 when moving is a non-starter for AT (and any alt deployment like deepstrike counts as moving.) The kratos 2-shot 24" melta S10 armourbane Dmg8 melta blastgun on the other hand is legit, it has Stable so it stays S10 even when driving and 24" reach instead of 8" means it vaporizes tanks opponent places well, unlike multimelta that is harmless unless opponent plays really really dumb.

>>96261777
Looking through the weapon profiles I see enough options to completely wreck AV 14 in one shooting phase. Not even considering super-heavies.

You sound like you're mad about lascannon HSS no longer being the single answer to everything.

Would anyone be interested in a sort of marine armor family tree?

>>96261826
Sure?

Is there a reason not to take a land raider explorator instead of a land raider carrier for cataphractii terminators?
>2" more movement from the land raider instead of 1" set up move
>45 points cheaper
>Outflank if you're feeling frisky
Only downside seems to be there being room for one less terminator compared to the carrier.

I just kitted out a squad of Volkite cavilers and culvrins, did I get fucked this edition?

>>96261850
Volkite is good

>>96261850
Calivers might be the most useful they have ever been, now that units can freely move and fire them without penalty.
Culverins are still perfectly fine.

>>96261846
Other than recon slots being rarer thsn heavy transport no not really

>>96261850
Seems fine? Volkite culverins are a little more expensive and have 1 less shot but they still eat tac squads, and calivers are looking actually usable now that you're not penalized for moving

>>96261839
workin on it

>>96261777
>there are few things that are going to take down a tank like that very quickly
Why is that inherently a problem?

Is there a 3.0 repository for battlescribe? I don't want to use gay recruit

>>96261882
Better learn to suck cock boy, battlescribe is abandonware

>>96261898
as long as It's still updated to work on current hardware it's fine, it's not broke so not sure why people think it needs fixing.

So realistically, there should be two main patterns of mark 2 floating around by the time the crusade leaves sol, Terran made and Martian made.

The new rule book talks a lot about the legion forges making armor, but thats only really relevant for marks 3 and onward

>>96261777
So take one of them? There are enough that you can take something you almost certainly have an av14 answer to fit your fluff.

>>96258509
Embrace the power of chinese cheap recasters

>>96261614
both MM jetbikes and MM HSS in rhinos are garbage against AV14 in this edition.
A whole unit of 6 jetbikes with multis gets within 1" of a tank I choose not to screen for some reason - they had to move so only strength 8. Average wounds inflicted is 4 hull points, 0 statuses ever because armourbane. 14% chance of a lucky kill. LR is at 6/10 so even if I dont kill them next turn, those 6 jetbikes will need 3 of 4 turns completely ignored sitting next to the tank to kill it (they wont as they'll all die on turn 1 sitting 1" from my tank covered in weapons within the middle of my army)
It gets worse when I can use a reaction to pop 5+ FNP on almost any tank, then 6 multimelta is actually 2.6 avg hull points, and kills the AV14 less than 4% of the time.

And when you lose your 275 point 6x multimelta jetbike squad to strip 3 hull points off a tank then die in the process, it gets much worse if they decide to simply heal it up.
A Forge Lord can start or end his move by filling it back up with 2 hull points and can do this twice each turn with his Machinator Array special rule. A forge lord to is 110 and entirely negates the 270 point jetbike squad erasing everything they do to any av14 effortlessly. 130 for jump pack forgelord, 140 for biker +1w forgelord, 150 for jetbike +1w forgelord. 130 for T5 4W terminator armor forgelord. All get the double battlesmith rule.
Ferrus is also able to smith once per turn with 4 undoing an expensive 350+ unit's attacks, he's a bit more expensive than a regular forgelord but of course he's a huge beatstick he just also happens to make av14 near him immortal.
100 pts for Mortifactor smith2 an even more budget option but int9 instead of int10 and doesnt get the 2x battlesmith2 rule, probably not worth it. His gimmick is his command slot adds a 3x contemptor dreadnought aux band but they're not that special now.
140 for IW Warsmith term heals 2x3 and gives +1 reaction pt
150 Ironfather 2x3 heal (servo adds +1)

>>96261942
* oh, it's 2x2 healed or 1x3 healed and 1 status removed if you have servoarm+machinator combo. 4 heal or 3+1 status is already what an entire AT unit dishes out.

>>96261880
>>96261922
I mean a problem like a challenge. Its cool that tanks aren't getting nuked in one turn, but like the other anon is saying if you go into this thinking you can just spam 10 HSS lascannons you're in for a surprise.

Do you think you could pass this off as a TH?

>>96261959
Paragon Blade
>but it's a mau-
Did I fucking stutter? Paragon Blade. Kerp up the backtalk and it'll be a power maul next

>>96261959
It looks like a power maul, but it wouldn't be the end of the world to call it a t hammer. Well done on the paint job though.

>>96261971
not mine, just used the pic to illustrate

>>96261965
>tfw all my champion weapons are now paragon blades

>>96260204
It's really sad that they just stopped producing them without a notice. I was able to get just one blister oh heavy bolters and one of multimeltas.

>>96261976
>gee that sure is a thunder hammer shaped volkite serpenta you got there

heavy bolters or culverins if you're a retard who wants to bring jetbikes?

>>96261994
Both. Let 33% of the squad's final size keep their heavy bolters. They're the first to die when you need to start removing models.
Same arithmetic applies for any other weapon.

>>96261994
Volkites are worth the upgrade if you can spare the points.
Though plasma cannons might actually be the sleeper pick, with how accurate blasts are now.

I'm blind or there's no way to field apothecaries with jump packs in HH3?

>>96262028
Those are primus medicae with jump pack now.

>>96262028
yeah since primus medicae doesn't really have any standout special rule his thing is being versatile platform for Medic! + Narthecium in 2+

>GW has driven all the FLGS in the area to no longer sell GW so can't play there
>GW store is no-go for playing as they don't have 6x4 tables and wouldnt have spare space anyway as the 1-2 tables are gonna be 40k/AOS players anyway
The life of a 30k player is to have to find creepy facebookers basements to play in, get handcuffed to a radiator and graped for eternity?

Is 300 points for a 10 man Autocannon squad worth it?

>>96262125
If you're a legion that benefits autocannons yeah. Otherwise it's a bit more dicey.

>>96262139
which one would that be, IF?

>>96262139
What about 360 for an Iron Havocs squad?

>>96262144
IF and TSons. TSons get a power that gives rending 5+ to a shooting attack, which makes you auto wound and breach on a 5+ to hit. A lil bit dickish, so probably don't spam it.

>>96262194
I mean, are you NOT supposed to use your legion's abilities if you play TS? That's clearly what the power is intended for

>>96262197
NTA, but the polite thing to do if your dudes rules end up unfortunately overtuned is to try to avoid taking the power units and if you do want to try them, minimize their impact - max 1 squad, 5 man unit instead of 10 man, etc

>>96262197
I think the polite thing to do would be use it on something like combi bolters or a rotor cannon squad. Low strength volume of fire weapons still gain good value from it without turning into an anti everything squad.

>>96262106
Why couldn't you play in one of your F(riendly)LGS? Surely they're not THAT buttblasted about playing something they don't sell minis for, right?
Could you maybe come to an arrangement with some owner to let you guys use their tables and terrain for a fee, or buy snacks and drinks from them instead?

>>96261139
>>96261141
>>96261157
Iron man type ahhh marine

>>96261141
I really like the basing, looks like they're fighting in some happy pastures

>>96262252
would have to buy and bring hundreds of dollars of terrain as well as the army, then spend a bunch of extra money at the store to justify playing there. Almost no community is gonna stay alive with those conditions. Definitely not gonna get 10 people to buy 10 sets of terrain so any random person can show up, and if only 1 person owns terrain he's not gonna always be around and bring it when any 2 random people want a game. LGS were only a hotspot for tabletop when they'd have their own store set so people could show up any random hour on any weekend and throw down.

I think you could win before your enemy has a turn with Flyer cheese. Please let me know if I'm missing anything:

- There is First Blood 4
- You play first, and have deployed just a single unit in a corner. The rest is all in Aerial Reserves.
- You get as many Aerial Reserves out as possible turn 1 and just focus on achieving First Blood, except for one Flyer for...
- ...also Extraction-ing out the single mini you had on the board
- At the end of the Shooting Phase, your Flyers leave and your board is empty.
- Sudden Death triggers because everything is in Reserves.
- You win 4 points to 3. Note that Last Man Standing doesn't trigger when Sudden Death does.

Assuming it works, I've considered going AL for this after being suggested to have a Saboteur as the single initial mini on the board, but what other legion/faction could work?

>>96262270
The answer is obvious anon, you need to become the basement creep

>>96262273
Retarded WAAC 40k tourist, go back to your containment thread

>>96262273
That's hilarous, you should try it.

>>96259573
I am midway through modelling my raven guard chaplain with a pickaxe, as a reminder to others that he was once a simple child in a mine on deliverence and that the working class need to rise up against their oppressors.

>>96262273
Don't know the rules well enough yet, but I hope this is actually possible and some fag wins a tournament with it because it would be maximum funny.

>>96262273
Can you manage this with the FOC requirements?

>>96262274
Most homes in this state don't have a basement because the ground water level or something. And having to buy a radiator for graping people would be yet another additional expense!

>>96262302
just play winner tops, anon

>>96260738
DA trait does nothing for combat resolution

>>96262296
You could just leave your Commanders in Reserves the whole game. It's not a problem.

>>96260738
if you're so shit at the game you're losing each combat by 5+ dead models, you're losing much harder as dark angels which have no legion trait and still run away non-stop

Having an actual legion trait such as salamanders so their powerfists only wound on 3+ would mean not losing combats by 5 dead models.

And if you prefer bravery (which is a non-dark angel rule, leadership 6 runs 60% of the time) then you must play chaos which have a 0% chance to run away using Malefic tarpit units.

>>96262329
>salamanders are finally among the legions with an 'actual' trait.
Finally

After the first eave of extra rage it seems to me that most of the anons out there just said "fuck it" and switched to 3rd edition, pissing on all of their principles.

>>96262383
>but muh principles
If you are under the impression that slight disappointment would prevent people from playing the game they've been playing for years, that won't happen. It obviously won't stop some of them from complaining about it in the most dramatic manner on random forums on the internet, though.

Most problems with equipment have been solved, most people who actually play the game don't mind building and painting another model from time to time anyway.

>>96262317
>>96261635
Wow, it would be a D-tier trait with it working on combat resolution, still 61% chance of fleeing, but if it doesnt work on that it's literally F-tier. DA trait does absolutely nothing whatsoever. Fear(2) isn't in any way common or significant, 12" effect range and on like 1 or 2 weapons.

DA players trying to cope by saying they have 1 or 2 extra prime units in their list are mentally delusional. Prime traits are already a complete weak joke compared to -1 strength to all enemy guns making bolters need 6+ to wound terminators before even trying armor, +10-20 attacks to every melee unit, all 18"+ enemy shooting being snapshots, enemy guns+charges being 2" further away (with 1d6 charge ranges), only wounded3+&ignore-all-flamer-panic, striking first in melee when charging to halve the enemy's damage when they get to swing, or TS army-wide-reliable-overpowered-psychic-powers.

>>96262383
except none of the sales figures or social media represent that in any way. HH3 is absolutely ridiculously unpopular and online stores are selling as little as 4 copies of a starter edition in 4 weeks to entire regions of large countries. This schizophrenia shillpost "the rage is over" is the weakest shilling attempt ever. You're still a non-existent audience. GW wants to sell a hundred thousand copies, not a few dozen copies.

>>96262383
They fixed the biggest issue with legacies, so why not? The new rules are fine and the rebalancing of units is welcome

>>96262397
literally nothing was fixed. HH3 now is just as unfun to play as on day 1, it's just now there's 207 extra pages of not balanced profiles to break the bad gameplay even harder.

Want a HSS - Missile Launchers or Autocannons?

>>96262397
My group stays on 2.0, we will for sure not stop playing the game.

>>96262367
They look top tier desu

>>96262409

Well, they did say they were going to be keeping to the spirit of the previous editions.

>>96262402
Weeeeel, not sure. The new terrain rules are pure garbage, the new legion traits less fun imho, the damage changes to try to fix vehicles insta deaths pretty crappy to me. An overall change in the direction of 40k is pretty shitty

>>96262401
There are only 4 units in the game that have greater than fear(1):
>Fulgrim transfigured
>Angron transfigured
>Curze
>Sevatar

>>96262419

Who is right now? I feel like Iron Hands are up there for sure. -1str to all shooting attacks in an edition heavily geared towards shooting? Seems pretty good.

>>96262402
Ps. they didn't fixed the tacticals that still cannot take chainswords.

>>96262427

Do multiple sources of Fear stack? Because there is that Fear (1) upgrade that Nightlords can take...

>>96262427
Dolorous knight as well I think

>>96262409
What is "not balanced" in the new profiles ?
So far nothing into it seemed whacked compared to say, Thousand sons sorcerers or Jet pack veterans with TH.

>>96262432
No

>>96262429
shoo shoo ESL

>>96262409
>literally nothing was fixed. HH3 now is just as unfun to play as on day 1
for you

>>96262410
Autocanons are better against every targets but the heaviest tanks

>>96262401
>>96262427
DA also have no Line or Vanguard special units

>>96262428
Mech >>>

>>96262435
Sure

>>96262426
ruined terrain with vision nonsense, ruined half of melee like charge bonuses and dual wielding (no it wasnt baked in every profile, just 5%) and chainswords, vehicle changes are a mess, move-and-shoot heavy weapons is entirely 40k, the entire line/vanguard objectives minigame is boring arcade shit, rhino-rush is low skill 40k gamey shit, complete removal of DS melee instead of just making DS have to be 9.1" away is garbage and 1 DS per turn is worse (bad gameplay AND bad lore too), line of sight taken from the worst of 40k, stupid challenge minigame was solved 10 seconds after release, sweeping advance gutted, AV14 completely imba (roughly 5 of 105 gun choices can even be a minor threat to AV14 within 4 turn game length), horrible 4 turn gamelength, losing rerolls gimped half the profiles in game like multimelta which is a joke now (and created many funny situations like Hatred doing absolutely nothing as many profiles wound enemies on 2+ and hatred is +1 to wound), dumbing down weaponry ie removal of rapid-fire, pistols a handicap as they dont give +1 attack, volleyfire requires not tagging enemy during setup move and volleyfire increases charge distance, dumbing down fluffy situations like night battles removal, silly 40k stratagem system where you need to buy characters so your army gets 4-5 stratagem points to keep track of each turn which didnt at all solve reactions being overpowered.

There's some top tier paid-shill gaslighting going on. Paid shills think if they repeat the phrase "the core rules is the best its ever been, everybody in the planet agrees, we only dislike the libers" that it will somehow become a truth and not entirely made up shit. The core rules of HH3 are D-tier, it's just that the Libers are F-tier without the legacy PDF. Now with the legacy PDF, they're D or F-tier, there's more choice but even LESS balance (example, you can cheaply have a 130-ish character constantly healing an AV14 tank 3 or 4 hull points every single turn)

>>96262456
Plus if you're counting on missile or autocannon damage on heavy tanks you are already fucked.

>>96262401
>>96262427
Don't overthink it, it's an AI generated garbage rule. I.e., it superficially sounds like a real thing until you actually analyse the meaning of the string of words

>>96262477
Why is multimelta a joke now?

>>96262477
>roughly 5 of 105 gun choices can even be a minor threat to AV14 within 4 turn game length
I'm not sure which 5 you are counting, but is both wrong and reads like you miss vehicles being laughed off the board.
>4 turn game
Ironically, the most 40k thing here is getting assblasted at this instead of, y'know, just asking your opponent if they want to play more turns.

3.0 is inexcusably bad on the whole, the legacies pdf is an abomination that hardly ameliorates many instances of cut or missing wargear, and it speaks volumes of those who are continuing along with gw's wild ride for so much as a moment longer

on another note, could anyone tell me if a FAQ was supplied at any point to the Beta Garmon book and could you share it with me if so?

>>96262477
Mucho texto
Mald harder

>>96262525
There was, I still have it. And I'm not goin to share it with you.

>>96262525
I see you've at least stopped glazing the "leaker" every thread

>>96262501
it's S8 while moving which is mandatory as the melta effect was changed from 12" to 8", 1 shot, lost rerolls to hit so it misses all the time and tanks it could occasionally get lucky and one-shot now have 10 wounds and can pop 5+ FNP to have 15 wounds essentially.
The math is already posted in many examples in every thread, infantry meltas are tickling devices now.

Funny how the opinions have changed from "This will be the multi-melta edition!" to "Multi-meltas are trash!" so quickly.

>>96262583
and since it relies on armourbane, it now has a 0% chance to inflict any status on enemy tanks.
So it can be worse to have a melta successfully place 2 wounds on a 10 wound tank, which shoots 100% normally, rather than have some non-armourbane gun shoot the tank and immobilize his landraider transport or knock his battletank to Snapshots-Only status.

>>96262428
TS, Sallamanders and alpha legion look like they will be top dogs.
DA will lead the trash pack.

>>96262590
We were working off of incomplete and even erronous information, like that warcomm article stating that a melta gun in melta range is able to one-shot a deredeo

GW had some awful marketing and promotion for hh3, starting with the grabage that was horus hearsay, and ending with the articles filled with mistakes and typos which later had to be corrected.

>>96262590
duality of anon

>>96262467
You're beating a dead horse.
DA are trash and I honestly don't think that 25 extra detachments can save them.

>>96262600
I don't think melta only being for vehicles is actually all that important to whether or not multi meltas are all that good.

Bruh

>>96262633
What is that expression lmao

>>96262633
>I have no ass and I must shit

>>96262633
Same energy as this.

>>96262633
>The MODOK movie starring Joaquin Phoenix
>"Emperor, you get what you fucking DESERVE!"

>>96260115
Take 5 hip fired and 5 shoulder fired, then form them into ranks were the first rank has hip fired missiles and the second rank has shoulder fired.

>>96262456
>>96262478
Missiles have anti-air as well though, and they're cheaper

>>96262638

>get back into warhammer and choose 30k as I had a lot of older short kings already and the scale matches better
>specifically pick DA because they have my favourite model I wanted to collect- DW companions and decided i wanted loads of them with differing loadouts my fav being JUMP PACKS
>spend 6 months collecting and slowly building for 2.0
>3.0 abortion comes out and 200page+ pdf doesn't even give me jump pack dw companions back
>

I'm literally not going to play and just collect the models I wanted and they will just go on the shelf. Imagine how mad I'd be if I actually paid jew workshops prices of 78 quid per 5 guys for DW companions just for them to take a shit on your actively still sold unit because.. reasons ok?

>>96260325
You do know the belt is running through a chute, right? We use those in real life even today.

>>96262679
cool

>>96262590
>Anons are retarded
More at 11

>>96262685
yeah it's cool, i hope you get fucked next time in this main stream 3yr 40k cycle where you're not allowed any wargear or units GW doesn't currently sell the model for :)

>>96262591
Is the d2 (in melta range) meltagun in the room with us right now?

>>96262679
Sure you did

>>96262679
The Raped legion

>>96262698
do I have to post your evidence or do you think any criticism of the shit new edition is inorganic

>>96262703
>or do you think any criticism of the shit new edition is inorganic
On this site?
Yea

>>96262707
Fuck off pardo

>>96262688
unsubscribe

>>96260290
The drum was meant for when units are on the move, so the machine gunner has the weapon ready to fire the moment they make contact and gives the loader time to get the bigger belt ready. You're also running through all that ammo if you're brrrrt it all away. At least with the MG3, the idea is to fire very short bursts:
https://youtu.be/ENipa4fYOSc?t=29
It's the whole reason for this meme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kZ95uYIlgc
He's probably been trained to fire quick bursts with the MG3, something that doesn't not work as well on the M2.
>Meanwhile, the heavy bolter backpack feed is more like GAU8 on A10 warthog with 1,350 rounds of ammo.
Militaries have experimented on backpack mounted ammo boxes with belts to the gun and they never end up working. Meanwhile, belt boxes of shapes and sizes been used for over a century by now. So you can cry about how they're shit all you want, they're still a thing actively being used, rather than some designers wet dream that never goes anywhere.

>>96262707
this site is the only one with actual organic criticism. If you tell the truth on lebbit or discord some unemployed 320 lb mylittlepony moderator will delete your posts, ban you, and sick his 20 tranny friends to downvote anything else. Then instant downvotes from paid GW employees.

4chan has some retard takes mixed in like yours, but it also includes the only actual correct ones.

>>96262737
Hows your first week on 4chan?

>>96262722
bro, Space marines have been running around with a single 20 bolt magazine for 40 years, it's too late for that.

GW can't into weapons. Just look at what the design teams hires look like.

>>96262737

Most people here are also much dumber than on reddit. Much older and way less tech inclined.

all you hear is "Gib Stl" "wer stl" "we want stl".

And yet the average redditor can find 3 telegrams links within an hours of searching /r/PrintedWarhammer and complete Damsa / Wilph collection or GW scans.

>>96262737
>this site is the only one with actual organic criticism
Lol
Lmao
>If you tell the truth on lebbit or discord some unemployed 320 lb mylittlepony moderator will delete your posts
Imagine being so new you don't know about janny abuse on here
>4chan has some retard takes mixed in like yours, but it also includes the only actual correct ones
Holy lol

>>96262773
>>96262757
I've been here for ages and he's right. Janny abuse aside which is a minor issue in comparison to the issues he's talking about using an even shittier site like reddit. What's the matter kids, you upset you can't downvote his comment?

>>96262778
>I've been here for ages
Sure you have
Samefagging won't make you any less retarded

>>96262758
>metal marines had pouches on their belt
>plastic ones come with pouches that nobody glued on
>"wHy No ExTrA mAgAzInEs, jAmEs?"
But keep moving that goalpost, you're doing fine.

>>96262785
>post a ten thousand year old angry marine pic and the discord tranny "oldfag" doesn't recognise it and doubles down

Coolest traitor legion?

>>96262811
tossup between word bearers and night lords, because both are such huge unapologetic dickheads

>>96262785
yo is this u?

>>96262822
Is this pardo?

Alphachads, what is your opinion on Skorr this edition? I was thinking about including him in my army.

>>96262835
no, too much hair and not short enough

>>96262838
Kino mini, enough to bring him

>>96262838
Too many alpha legion players

>>96261777
That is the point of AV14, yes
There was no reason to bring anything outside las canons before. Now you actually need the big guns

>>96262805
Angry marines have been a reddit tier joke for over a decade you zygote

Would someone post the Master of Descent rules? Is it just a Consul with a jump pack and a special rule attached?

>>96261777
A single 60 point gravity rapier will pin a land raider for the entire game from the back of its own deployment zone

>>96262903
In the OP lil bro

>Sloptica Journal 1
>https://gofile.io/d/3q0Xkt

>>96262838
>command slot
>good AP2 at initative weapon
>MoTL
>delegatus rule
>banger model

he's great

>>96262913
Ta bruz

ETA of Forges of Saturn?

>>96262811
Thousand Sons, because they go from being tragic villains to being absolutely cartoonishly evil by the Siege of Terra

>chinesium I ordered is already through customs
That was fast, I placed the order less than a week ago

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>96262838
What does the stick do?

Oh baker, I'd like a fresh bread
Extra Goldshi

>>96262969
You point with it

>>96261625
>>96261614
You now need something better than lascannons for anti tank (or more specifically, anti AV14)
Laser destroyers, big melta, big ordnance guns, you need one of them.

Lascannon HSS are no longer all the heavy firepower you could ever need.

>>96262679
They dont (and never did) sell deathwing companions with jump packs.

>>96262959
I was shocked too, when I ordered some chinky resin from WTG and it arrived in less than two weeks. Great quality, too

CAN WE GET MUCH HIGHER

>>96262838
He seems quite good. Solid weapon, affordable, good rules

>>96262919
No, they're not

Realistically in terms of Astartes formations, is a 20 man tactical squad a singular squad, or two squads combined together for the duration of an operation?
I'm going to start adding squad markings to all of my marines, and I'm unsure if it's 'acceptable' to have dudes from squad 'I' and 'II' in the same 20 man unit, or if I should give them all the same 'I' marking.

>>96262816
Word Bearers and Night Lords are already played at my LGS, at least according to my stalking of their discord. What are some others that aren't played at my LGS?

>>96263021
I imagine all the game formations are canon

>>96263010
>they don't (and never did) sell
boxlocked hobbylet hands typed this post

Oh hey my liber arrived, wayland does fast shipping.

>>96263031
Irrelevant to the complaint of "waaah the evil GW destroyed this unit they still sell and charge lots of money for"

>>96263021
all of my tactical formations are good to go in splitting into tens with one of the otherwise line marines in the block of twenty designated and marked ahead of time as the provisional sergeant, but they're groups of twenty as such at their core

what you have in mind for a potential division is more than fine. these sorts of things took all manners of shapes.

>>96263049
fresh bread
>>96263049
post models
>>96263049

>>96263014

>>96263021
Good thing I play Alpha Legion, I can get away with all sort of nonsense and it's in character.

>>96262884
And you know that because you came from there? Check the file name retard instead of doubling down with your cope you autistic twat.

>>96262329
>>96262367
I would not have traded better Salamander rules for everyone else’s suffering of 3.0. It was cool being the under dog with slightly better flamers, 5++ saves for vehicles and passing feet checks automatically. Trust me when I say this.

Do you think they will redo all of the primarch models that havent already got a new HH model?

( fulgrim ascended.etc.)

I think a siege of terra Dorn or a flaming legion of the damned Ferrus manus would go pretty hard

>>96262028
Tell people you pay 60-70pts for one and they shouldn't complain. It's a fucking joke that only Primus Medicae got them at 120pts with no better healing, just a centurion stat line