Thread 96311640

The Mage Edition
>Previous Thread
>>96296095
>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0
>Mediafire
https://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
>WoD5 Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
https://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question:
You are a Mage, in real life, what's the first thing you do? Become beautiful? Get riches? Go bully someone? Visit 4chan to gloat?

Bonus question: Choose another splat to become one in real life and explain your reasoning.

>>96311640 (OP)
>You are a Mage, in real life, what's the first thing you do?
Upon awakening during the "do whatever you want until the enlightenment fades" timeframe?
It'd manifest a ridiculously high rating arcane library from the universal consciousness so that I don't have to fight people for occult lore.

>>96311640 (OP)
>Choose another splat
Kinain. Not a changeling, the humans with changeling blood. Kinain get 99% of the benefits of being changeling with almost none of the weaknesses.
First thing I'm going to do is buy up contract and naming as high as possible. My Goal is to use Naming 3 & Contract 5 on myself to gain glamour, dice, and bestowments through oaths and restrictions like I'm in jujutsu-kaisen.

I am sharing BSD Tribebook from Storyteller Vault. Sent it to MEGA also.

gofile.io /d/ Qk0Cro

DANCE THE BLACK SPIRAL!!!

>>96311640 (OP)
I go on /x/ and dab on the larpers and schizos by doing actual magic

>>96311640 (OP)
I knew that art looked familiar.

Bloodlines question not worthy of making a thread in /v/ or /vrpg/
Southland Slasher has Warform, which for some reason is Protean 5* in that game
The homeless guy that tells you what happened between him and the guy he decapitated tells you he appeared out of nowhere, so Obfuscate
He straight up throws cars at you, so Potence
So is he a Caitiff, as in clanless, or a City Gangrel that picked up Potence? Either way, during his two years of vampirism where he mastered Protean and Potence how did he not managed to learn rules of vampires and masquerade?
I know the most likely answer is devs didn't think that deep but I'm wondering if it makes sense and I'm being stupid here

>>96312489
>I know the most likely answer is devs didn't think that deep
They included the hilariously obscure Nagloper as a background detail as well as mummies and demons. They did think that deep.

What's a good (as in short as possible) name for an Empathy specialty for picking up on a person's worst qualities? Even "sensing the sin" is a bit of a mouthful.

>>96312405
Forsaken has really slept on art. A lot of early nWoD books do actually.

>>96311953
The book is pretty interesting and collects lots of stuff in many other books. Truly a recollection. It adds some interesting new stuff and updates some characters (Rends-the-Innocent for instance got an age update and character sheet).
My only nitpick with it is throwing The Perfect Metis already as a BSD since the books itself say that's something characters can change and/or up to the ST. The adventure itself regarding the Perfect Metis in official books you give him to the Stargazers so they can take care of him.
Also:
>Werewolf: The Apocalypse: Tribe Novel, Book 7: Black Spiral Dancers & Wendigo. 2002. The BSD Tribe Novel is of similar value as Chronicles of the Black Labyrinth, but it’s perhaps more traumatic to read. Just reading the first scene probably requires therapy.
Was that supposed to be a joke or people are that sensitive?

>>96312405
>Brazilian gym rat finds out she's a wolf fucker
AY CARAJO

>TQ
Difficult question because this implies in Traditions vs Technocray bullshit and I simply would prefer to help mundane people, help myself, probably living a better life and do the same for my friends.
>bonus TQ
Kinfolk so I can finally have my werewolf husband.

>>96312691
nWoD indeed has beautiful art and I appreciate the effort they put in art direction. Each splat has their own art identity. I freaking love that!

>>96312547
Vice? Sense vice?

>>96312744
Speaking of which, did Kinfolk just get erased in W5?

>>96312405
>I knew that art looked familiar
It’s almost like… like White Wolf hired the artist to create multiple pieces or something. Nah, that’s crazy talk.

>>96312781
Yes, because of the implication.

>>96311640 (OP)
>TQ
GET FUCKING LAID!!!!!

>Another splat
Toreador. And for basically the same reason.

>>96312781
Technically, no, as Kinfolk is the name for werewolves who haven't gone through their First Changes yet. Once a Kinfolk experiences their First Change, they stop being Kinfolk and start being a werewolf.
Practically, yes, as W5 doesn't have anything that performs the same function as Kinfolk do in older editions. There is no community of people immune to Delirium who act as a support network, a servant caste and as breeding stock for werewolves. Werewolves have to be self-sufficient, they have to interact with humanity themselves and accumulate wealth and resources themselves. This is so important that having a job is a merit.

>>96312905
>This is so important that having a job is a merit.

>>96312781
Oh boy, I reread W5 and the amount of stupid is staggering.
>80s, 90s are ancient History
Apparently, W5 Garou is actually retarded. No one records things, they have no writing language. Glass Walkers and technology? Forget about it, they don't record anything. It even implies most don't live to middle age, let alone old age.
>Activist, we need young activists
You are here for action? Being werewolf? Actually doing something to fix the world? Fuck that! We need activists, that's the point of W5. Apocalypse happened people but you need to protest harder!
>"Famous" Garou
Oh wow, Chinese Astronout who First Changed during a space mission. Apparently no one noticed the big woof or cared. Oh an social activists protesting...plane usage? Oh wow, a black twitter user, wow. They also butchered Jonas Albrecht.
>Warform? More like Quick Action form
Now Garou have erectile dysfunction, they can't last long. No judging, though.
>Half Spirit, Half Flesh but can't handle Umbra
What do you mean you take Agg when you stay in Umbra?
>"Tribes"
No ties, no culture, no roots. Why do they exists? For fucks sake, you saying "80s, 90s" are ancient for Garou makes this worse.
>Pentex...
God, Pentex and it's subsidies are just sad in W5. No charm, no soul, nothing that would make them memorable.

And this is the short version.

Can I get some advice on Werewolf: The Apocalypse before I buy?
I was told that you play as ecoterrorist werewolves fighting mega corporations by friend. Is this accurate?
I’ve played Hunter: The Reckoning and enjoyed it but was looking for something new to run for my group.

>>96313508
Don't bother with any edition of it, unless you enjoy playing a retard. Every single piece of written lore makes werewolves the biggest retards who ever lived, who are responsible for ruining everything for everyone and who have countless ways of fixing the world but they're too retarded to figure it out. There literally isn't a single species in fiction that is more retarded than WtA werewolves. Even the basic premise of WtA is retarded, so I guess it's fitting that the werewolves are retards too.

>>96313554
That’s disappointing. Would I be better off just running GURPS with the theme I want?
All I know about world of darkness is from Bloodlines and one game of Hunter.

>>96313618
Try Werewolf the Forsaken 2e instead. It isn't just the best werewolf game currently available, it's one of the best designed TTRPGs of all time, in contrast to Werewolf the Apocalypse, which is one of the most retarded games ever written, no matter the edition.

>>96313508
Yes, and more.
You want to be a cybernetic Werewolf ? You can be that. You want to fight robotic spiders, spirits of destruction and corruption? Sure. You want to go through epic quests for loot, glory and power? Of course.

>>96313508
Other anon is being a twat. If that's what you're into, then WtA will generally provide that. It's not just about corporations, and there is a lot of spirit stuff to the setting, but you'll probably enjoy it.

The other reply is also them being a twat but WtF 2e is actually rad as an alternative if you don't vibe with WtA.

>>96313674
Stop being so sensitive. People are allowed to dislike something that you like. You don't have to go rushing to defend your favourite game.

>>96313688
Ironic.

>>96311953
>Perception of Others
>Even though they are at war, locked in mortal combat for the fate of the entire universe, the Black Spiral Dancers, as a tribe, are still capable of seeing the forest from the trees and have nuanced opinions of all the different Tribes and shifters and supernaturals. Sorta.
>Black Furies
>Retarded.
>Bone Gnawers
>Pretty cool guys, actually. Sometimes. They will all join the Wyrm when they realize the Weaver is the true enemy.
>Children of Gaia
>Very retarded.
>Fianna
>Kill them off. Take their land. Go there for vacation.
>Get of Fenris
>Worthy enemies.
>Glass Walkers
>Retarded.
>Red Talons
>Retarded but also worthy enemies.
>Shadow Lords
>Mostly retarded.
>Silent Striders
>Retarded.
>Silver Fangs
>Retarded.
>Uktena
>Retarded but they used to be pretty powerful, actually.
>Wendigo
>Retarded.
kek

>>96313711
Why are you incapable of taking a step back and letting other people state their opinions? Not that it's an opinion, it's pretty much a fact that the Garou are universally retarded. The point is, you don't have to pipe up whenever someone says something that you don't like.

>>96313754
I hate WtA. I agree woofs are retards, I still think you're being a twat. I do, in fact, strongly recommend WtF 2e.

>>96313762
If you really thought that, you wouldn't have been so easily offended.

>>96313729
Well, are they wrong?

>>96313795
Yes, Bone Gnawers, Fianna and Get of Fenris are also retarded.

>>96313754
Mate, you go in shitting on one of the central splats, repeating one of the most cliche takes ever and then overexaggerate at best a decent game. What are you expecting?
WTF is decent, WTA is decent. Neither of them are gods gift from above nor bottom shit tier like F.A.T.A.L.

>>96313804
>WTA is decent
Explain.

>>96313827
I know you are baiting but there is a fact that not even you can deny, my friend.
Without WTA, there would be no WTF to chase its success.
(Also like, the developer of WTF Stewart Wilson also worked on WTA. It's not like they are that different in the end.)

>>96313889
So you admit that the sole "redeeming factor" of WtA is that it's so retarded that it drove OPP to make a werewolf game that wasn't retarded?

>40 posts
>ctrl+f "retard"
>28 matches
i think someone likes that word a little too much

>>96313906
If that was its only redeeming factor, why has WtF never in its entire run ever been as popular as WtA was before the end of revised?

Why are werewolf fans so easily pissed off? Not to say others are exactly hard to bait, but one person rips on WtA and they all start throwing a hissy fit.

Like chill out bro it's not a personal attack if people don't like your gameline.

>>96312489
He could be an abandoned Gangrel who never got taught by his sire after getting abandoned. Maybe his sire forgot. Gangrel are fuckwards like that.
>>96314198
I don't know about you but this is nowhere near a hissy fit, at least compared to the actual meltdowns of say, DaveB fans of Awakening.
They are just taking the bait of a baiter. A classic really. The only thing we are missing a hedgefag impersonator.

>>96312691
I despite the photobashed and cheap photoshop paint stuff we got afterwards.

>>96314167
Why do people nowadays only ever talk about how popular something is? I don't remember this being the case just 5 years ago, nobody thought the Star Wars sequels were good because they made a lot of money. But nowadays, everyone just posts box office numbers, even chud faggots reverse their opinions about "woke" movies if they make a lot of money.

>>96311640 (OP)
>You are a Mage, in real life, what's the first thing you do? Become beautiful? Get riches? Go bully someone? Visit 4chan to gloat?
Assert time control and assess impending threats. Rewind to uncrippled youth. Assess impending threats again. Shed Paradox, indulge in physical activities and vices and scheme while at it. Gradually build up self and get other arts to at least intermediate proficiency, establish a foothold, sanctum network and incarnation backups, create more enlightened and set about trimming down problems and potential threats.
>Bonus question: Choose another splat to become one in real life and explain your reasoning.
Mummy, oh yes. Egyptian or Wu T'ian, doesn't matter. Wan Xian wouldn't be that bad either, much to learn, much flexibility, no Judeo-Christian bullshit, the existence is pleasant and the superiors and urges are manageable, for the most part.

Drawfag here, with WIP of a Bone Gawner looming over some unfortunate Sabbat.

>>96314481
Nice! I like the werewolf looming art in general.

>>96314489
Thanks man!

>>96314364
>Why do people nowadays only ever talk about how popular something is? I don't remember this being the case just 5 years ago
You either have a shit memory or are a newfage pretending to be old. People were arguing about which splat was more popular within Months of werewolf the apocalypse first releasing. So stop trying to be a historical revisionist on the ttrpg autism forum, some of us actually are old enough to remember.

>>96314522
I'm a millenial, so I was too young in the 90s, but in the 2000s and 2010s I'm quite sure being popular was not seen as a virtue, people loved hating on popular things. Not necessarily in the RPG community, but in the general online world.

>>96314481
Niceee, always nice to see you draw. You are one of few things Wod related I look forward to these days.

>>96314364
Popularity is an objective measurement, at least in theory (in practice it can be hard to actually quantify how popular something is, since sales numbers aren't always accurate and often times vocal minorities cause a disproportionate amount of visibility for an IP), so people will often bring it up to try and "win" a debate that's a solid 70% personal taste.

TTRPGs are generally hard to quantify the quality of, since so much of it is YMMV based on your group. An objectively bad RPG can be fun with the right group, and even the most perfectly designed game will still suck with a bad one. I think WoD in general has never gotten over its very brief time in the limelight as the pepsi to D&D's coke, so even though it's now just one of the many urban fantasy RPGs fighting over a very niche market, people still like to bring up popularity. Heck, I'd say the fact that a game as mechanically flawed as oWoD could be the #2 RPG for even a brief period of time is proof that the objective qualities of a TTRPG are the things that matter the least.

>>96314583
>but in the 2000s and 2010s I'm quite sure being popular was not seen as a virtue
The fuck rock were you living under?
The 00's and 10's were even Worse because of how common the internet was. You couldn't go 5 minutes on something aweful, 4chan, rpgnet, or the whitewolf forums without someone screeching about their [insert splat] being number one. I can't tell if you're lying, coping, or genuinely this ignorant of 90% of the internet from the last 30 years.

>>96311640 (OP)
Thoughts?

>>96314610
>I'd say the fact that a game as mechanically flawed as oWoD
People keep saying this, and it's stupid every time. Every ttrpg is mechanically flawed, but the flaws in good ttrpgs are compromises that devs had to make based on how they wanted the game to play.
OWoD's flaws come from being less gamist and more simulationis design. It's not trying to be perfectly balanced between players like an MMO, it's purposefully trying to hammer home A.) how fragile people are in this horror setting, B.) reinforce the themes of each splat, and C.) clearly express the humongous power differences between new and old or low class and high class supernaturals.
OWoD is as mechanically inept as people keep banging on about, it's actually very competent at what it set out to do from a game design perspective. You know why? Because it does all of this successfully while being Fun To Play.
If the complainers had their way, OWoD would have been overbalanced to the point of being flavorless slop like D&D 4e.

Would you date a true fae? What if it actually loved you? And by love I mean “the narrative”.

>>96314621
>Not even good quality AI art
It speaks for itself really.

>>96314650
This isn't exalted. Narrative Fae aren't a thing in OWoD.
Dunno about nuwod though.

>>96314646
>OWoD is as mechanically inept
*isn't as
OWoD does it's job very well.

>>96314660
NuWoD fae are nearly exactly the same as the Raksha from Exalted.

>>96314662
NuWoD’s mechanics are overly robotic for the sake of balance. “No you can’t cause nuclear explosions only archmages can do that”. What the fuck.

>>96314646
I consider this post more evidence to the "RPGs are extremely YMMV" point, because you are the first person I have seen seriously argue that oWoD is good at being simulationist. Or even that the mechanics are why it's fun. I certainly don't find the core mechanics enjoyable, and that's been the shared experience of everyone I know IRL. Power design is a whole other can of worms, same with cross-splat. But the core mechanics? This is genuinely the first praise I've heard of them. Also, I think you have the opposite position wrong if you think they're looking for some sort of video game-esque balance. I'm certainly not.

So I repeat, TTRPGs are very, very YMMV.

Stop typing owod like OwOd please and thank you

>>96314417
>Assert time control
an old man in a tuxedo enters the room
he looks suspiciously like the stranger who saved you from a car accident one day when you were a child
tire marks start to appear on your chest, and it's getting hard to breathe...

Why is it that every time I read the words "black metal" in WoD it's in a book written by Brucato, and why is it always so transparently vitriolic?
Did Brucato get cucked by a black metal kid or something? Wouldn't he like that since he's into orgies and open relationships and shit?

>>96314733
That's another indicator that nuwod is another branch of the exalted/wod multiversal timey-whimey bullshit. You could probably drop one of old wod's splat-stacked crimes against nature in nuwod just to see the confusion and horror in the local's faces.

>>96312744
>Each splat has their own art identity. I freaking love that!

CtL has some really great art in it, criminally underappreciated.

>>96314333
Yeah, unfortunately it seems all the books have been moving in that direction.

>>96314364
Five years ago, people were arguing that Chronicles of Darkness 2e was more popular and outselling every edition of World of Darkness combined, based on a misunderstanding of DriveThru RPG's ordering system.

>>96315188
>Yeah, unfortunately it seems all the books have been moving in that direction.
It's always weird when ttrpgs abandon their distinctive art styles for photobash or cgi garbage. Then they wonder later why their sales went down, it couldn't possibly be because a good chunk of new players get drawn in or scared away by art...

>>96315771
Lazy freelance artists aren't a new thing.

>>96315807
jesus

>>96315807
>the toreador are not sending their best

>>96315920
There toreador. There best are too busy selling their art for millions and having sex to bother with this shit. The ones that have to scrounge around in cheap freelance work are the talentless bottom-feeders of the clan.

>Vampire blood tastes great to ghouls
>Changeling blood tastes great to vampires
So would a changeling ghoul in a non abusive ghoul relationship be a win-win for both parties or would banality fuck it up for the changeling somehow?

>>96315994
Vampires ooze banality generally, so it would definitely fuck them up.

>>96315976
>There best are too busy selling their art for millions
Das rite!
That'll be 6.2 million dollars.
Plus tip.

>>96315516
Based on the fact that its top 100 and Metal tiers were the ONLY numbers we could see, that and Amazon rankings, and the games consistently performed very well on both.

It was cut short because Paradox doesn't want internal competition against WoD5.

Are Fera affected by Harano?

>>96316425
According to the wiki (kek), some fera can:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Harano

>>96314882
He shouldn't appear until you botch badly or create a lowercase p time paradox.
But man, imagine Wrinkle existing and you being the only man in the world who can accrue Time dox because other mages don't exist or Bonisagus was too successful in sabotaging mages' paradigm.

>>96316141
It hits differently when hyperrealist sculptor does this sort of IRL trolling.

>>96316520
Based toreador apologist.

I take it is possible to play as a Lasombra neonate that's in the Camarilla thanks to their sire being a cammie, or do Camarilla and Sabbat do stuff together every now and then? Shit like Elysium and such.

>>96314481
Honestly, great choice. That's perfect for Werewolf

>>96316628
>I take it is possible to play as a Lasombra neonate that's in the Camarilla thanks to their sire being a cammie,
Yes, there are some shadow-boys in the Cam.

>or do Camarilla and Sabbat do stuff together every now and then?


>or do Camarilla and Sabbat do stuff together every now and then? Shit like Elysium and such.
Nah, bro. It's worse than the USA and the USSR at their lowest point. Maybe if some third party of big baddies appeared they could team up momentarily, but that's it.

>>96316667
>disgusting dog drooling all over the floor

Why is it that Werewolf is the only splat that actually bothered making original monsters and their statsheets?
I guess Vampire has some too hidden in sourcebooks, like Virstania's pets. But I'd assume Mage would have much wider variety of things to fight.

>>96315021
Satyros was in a bunch of shitty unheard of heavy metal bands in the 90s. I wouldn't be surprised if he grew jealous of the rising popularity of black metal at the time.
You also have to take in mind he's a neo-pagan lefty, which contrasts with three popular themes in black metal: satanism (satyrboy hates this because "muh christian invention"), paganism/reconstructionism (which opposes the whitewashed neo-pagan/wicca beliefs and instead seeks to recreate proper pagan traditions, including some degree of social conservatism. The "reject modernity" plus mild conservatism of course makes this fascist in the eyes of Brucato and his kin), and actual nazi shit (whether is Vikernes being a clown, or actual NSBM bands).
In other words, ZooPhil is the insufferable modern "progressive" metalhead that writes those shitty articles trying to cancel Deathspell Omega. In fact, he's been that since 90s so he was slightly ahead of his time. Mind you, he's not even like an og grindcore lefty. He probably just picked up that mentality in order to get laid.
So yeah... Brucato is a poser. Never pay for any of his books.

>>96316804
Werewolf is the combat/spirit splat, so it would have that focus.
Mage has its own exclusive monsters, but is meant to share middle umbrood with Werewolf.
Changeling can have plenty of wacky critters, it's just that the splat wasn't made for combat wank, but story, rather, before C20 at least.
Wraith and KotE are build your own monster in a nutshell, KotE has plenty of other things to use. F for fallen apes customisable antags as well.
Hunter has watered down versions of common playable monsters and some ability to mix and match. Mummy piggybacks on other splat stuff.
Only Vampire stays more or less at generic street level, Tremere/Tzimisce aside.

>>96314854
You can thank Hedgefag for starting that shit.

>>96316900
>that picture
I see you bought Oracular ability/Omen sensitivity.

>>96316628
There are Lasombra Antitribu. They're few in number and have to keep a low profile for fear of their sabbat clanmates being willing to kill them at nearly any cost, but they do exist.

The Camarilla and Sabbat are in a constant state of war though. Sometimes it's a cold war and particular coteries/packs or even just individuals may cooperate, but as sects engaging formally? Fuck no. Can't even really have ceasefire talks without the Sabbat trying to behead the entourage. Their beef is foundational.

>>96317003
Hedgefag left us a terrible curse when he became a True Fae and left us behind...

Being a pooka lets me be a furry in WoD. Does this anger you?

>>96317295
Why would it? Werewolf attracts furfags as well, and Changeling is otherkin central as it is.

>>96317295
Yes, I just set my computer table on fire because of you

>>96312405
bobcuts are superior
1 it wont get tangled up on trees and such
2 its easy and fast to clean in the wilderness
3 it never covers the titties

>>96314481
bone gnawer
more like boner gobbler
hue hue hue
stoopid vvulf fuckers

Sucking off a wintry, minty scented true fae dick. I NEEEED this. AAAAAAAAGGHHHHHH. I am FINE being your servant. PLEASE.

>>96317686
Least mindbroken loyalist.

>>96314481
Neat!

Speaking of Loyalists:
They would make for great crossover antagonists. They do whatever the Gentry tell them to do (or what they think the Gentry will like) and like all fae use point and click adventure tier logic. Every nonsensical aspect (why doesn't he attack during daysleep, why won't he use silver, etc) can be explained away with the Loyalist being a changeling.

>>96317864
What would a True Fae want a vampire for? Is it into Twilight?

>>96317995
A vampires teeth are roughly the same distance as those of a holepuncher. Maybe the Gentry wants/needs a new on-theme holepuncher?
Alternatively:
>Gentry is vampire themed and is insulted by a specific vampires existance
>Gentry is vampire themed and delighted by a specific vampires existance
>The Gentry is curious why this form of archaic Fetch is still around
>The vampire dreamed to loud
>The vampire didn't dream loud enough
>The vampires sire once killed the Gentries then favoured changeling, so it wants to enact vengeance in kind
>The vampire is important to one of the Gentries captives and the Gentry wants to kill/capture/cure the Vampire as a punishment-reward for it's servant
>The Gentry has beef with the vampires (mundane) bloodline
>The Gentry likes how vampire emotions taste
>The Gentry likes how vampire ash smells/looks/tastes
>the Vampire posted about an obscure smut novel online and accidentaly spoiled the plot for the Gentry who hasn't yet read that book
>The vampire beat the Gentry in a game of Magic the Gathering once back when he was mortal and the Gentry still simmers with nerd rage. Might involve being forced to play a new game of magic with living cards

Sucking off a wintry, minty scented sidhe dick. I NEEEED this. AAAAAAAAGGHHHHHH. I am FINE being your servant. PLEASE.

>>96315188
>CtL has some really great art in it, criminally underappreciated.
I wouldn't say CtL has underappreciated art 'cause of their books won a award (Equinox Road IIRC?).

>>96314481
Amazing as always. I love so fucking much your art. It's a shame I'm a poorfag or else I would totally commission you!

>>96318313
>>96317686

>>96316667
Remids me this VTES card.

>>96318374
Same energy.

>actual WoD in the wild
what the fuck
Its over in cockthorpe, its mostly Hunter the Parenting but WTF

>>96318051
>mfw a True Fae saw Hotel Transylvania ONCE and now is looking for some poor bastard to play her father

>>96311640 (OP)
>TQ
I would get revenge of most of the wrong doings my family as gone by family members or closeones. If not that, get fucking rich.
>BQ
Hunter because i want an excuse to go Berserk on some supernatural shit and look the fear in its eyes when it realize that even a puny human can kill them.

>>96311640 (OP)
>TQ:
Probably assume I'm going crazy. Then get euphoric when I find out I'm not. Then extremely concerned about other fuckers with similar/greater powers.
Exactly what I'd do would depend on my Arcana, of course, but "gentle" mindrape, trying some weird stuff with my own mind, extensive use of Serendipity (Fate 1) and Divination/Postcognition would definitely happen (if possible).
Bonus: I think being a Nephilim (demon, the descent) gives you tons of extremely cool powers with very few downsides. Something about fucking with my soul, but I'm not using it anyway. Demon powers are just extremely interesting, but being a demon kinda sucks.

>>96314621
Another WoD clone. Fine by me, but I don't have much interest in playing a water down version of a game I play already.

>>96318678
>extensive use of Serendipity (Fate 1)
The Supernal Angels of Fate want to have a talk with you.

Is it not possible to start play in w20 as a rank higher than 1?

Is there a spell or ritual that will break a ghoul's bond, but maintain their ghoulishness and not clue their master in that the bond isn't working anymore?

>>96318903
Unfortunatly WtA never gave us a pre-defined template to play higher than Cliath, different from VTM which you can play whatever you want in terms of power-level.
There was however an anon who once post his ST's pre-defined template. Here it is:
>Q: Is there any book which talks about XP or Freebies given to starting characters in higher Ranks?
>A: Not official but a friend offered the following when u was asking help making some level 6 npcs
>Attribute: 12/9/6
>Ability: 26/18/11
>Gifts:
>Cliath: 3 Level Ones
>Fostern: 5 Level Ones, 3 Level Twos
>Adren: 5 Level Ones, 5 Level Twos, 1 Level Three
>Athro: 5 Level Ones, 5 Level Twos, 3 Level Three, 1 Level Four
>Elder: 5 Level Ones, 5 Level Twos, 3 Level Three, 3 Level Fours, 1 Level Five
>Legend: 5 Level Ones, 5 Level Twos, 5 Level Three, 3 Level Fours, 3 Level 5 Five, 1 Level 6
>Oh and Rage and Gnosis at 8-10 each

>>96318903
Revised Storyteller Handbook, page 52 (there are tables in other books, but IMO this is the better one).
Ignore >>96319000, he obviously doesn't know shit.

>>96319147
Indeed I don't know shit 'cause I don't remember this part of the book.
Thanks a lot for showing us!
Now the real question here is: Why the fuck did they never put this on W20 books?

>>96319165
All 20th anniversary books are shoddy, lots of stuff omitted, misprinted or shown where sun doesn't shine and people wouldn't think to look.

Honestly I don't mind the second inquisition and I don't know why people have such a bug up their ass over it. It makes sense, there's lot of ways to tie it back to other splats, and it's a good way to basically bring in Hunter: The Vigil and overwrite the Reckoning, which is good because that was the one book that was clearly, indisputably head and shoulders better than the old version.

>>96317295
Yes, because we need more insect pooka instead.

>>96319413
The general 5th edition problem is that nuWW took a bunch of workable and even, dare I say, necessary ideas, and implemented them in the worst possible way, that made even hardcore proponents of those ideas question their worth.

>>96319413
You are talking nonsense but even if I agree with everything you said, Second Inquisition isn't Hunter book.
In fact, they are called Jobbers by H5. One of the orgs they are calling Jobbers are literally Leopold, so I have no idea what they are smoking.
So Second Inquisition and 5th Edition as a whole continue to suck.

>>96319551
They're clearly not jobbers in the pro wrestling sense since the SI took down the HQ of arguably the most powerful clan in one day and has been cleaning house ever since, fundamentally changing vampire culture, while all Hunters have ever done is get killed.

>>96318405
If you really think about it, a lot of old wod's themes hit really close to home in our current era. The irony is that lefty's are the current face of the NWO machine rather than the ones fighting it.

>>96319551
>Hunter orgs are Jobbers that don't have any actual values
>Largest orgs are literal religious group using the power of god to fight the darkness.
The is literally the technocracy all over again. The writers couldn't make their favorite factions looks worse or make their hated factions look better if they were actively trying.

>>96319641
If anything World of Darkness is insanely optimistic, thinking that a cabal of blood-drinking sociopathic parasites could be undone just by exposing them, as opposed to them operating out in the open completely unpunished and unopposed because everyone is too apathetic to do anything about them.

>>96319491
>dare I say, necessary ideas
Blood potency has no place in VtM. Most of their "new" ideas are actively harmful to the themes and setting of old wod down to their core. VtR should stay VtR, VtM should stay VtM, and the two should never mix.

>>96319165
Check W20 World of Rage, page 6. There's an xp-based one rather than a chargen resources one, because a lot of the authors spent about 10 years on CoD stuff and it uses xp-based improvements to templates instead of freebies.

>>96319690
>because everyone is too apathetic to do anything about them
Or their the insufferable twitter freaks.

>>96319690
>If anything World of Darkness is insanely optimistic

>>96319706
That's an interesting take, but missing out extra Freebies is quite a downside.

>>96319147
>This system builds not just veterans, but Impressive Veterans
>Add one attribute per rank, one pool per rank, no extra abilities, and 3 gifts
>Literally rank up faster than you can earn xp.
>High rank starting werewolves would be embarrassments to the other elders
WTF were the writers smoking?

>>96319690
>Local masquerade breach shuts down because the community doesn't have the spare cash to go on a "vampire strike".
>Rent due to go up again by the way. No, I haven't found a guy who can fix your AC, yes I know it's 40C in summer now but nothing can be done

>>96319690
To be frank, anyone who can make it in our gnostic hell of a reality would be able to fucking Conquer wod.

>>96319728
Insufferable twitter freaks and social media in general are just another manifestation of it.
>redirect discourse towards pointless trivia and minutiae
>distort and mutilate language through censorship and social pressure until the public lexicon is too truncated to have meaningful discussions
>sabotage conversations of sensitive topics by drowning it out with meanignless noise
>monopolize the forums of conversation to have all discourse under the control of a small clique of super-moderators answerable to nobody
>neuter critical thinking and distort reality by promoting "experts" as the sole authority on any given topic as well as deplatforming actual experts for opposing the party line
The list goes on, but the point is you don't need ancient and powerful reality-wraping magic to do any of that.

>>96319789
That's just Revised in a nutshell.
Still, those points are more than sufficient to build someone mighty, if you were so inclined without turning into Elysium/DSotBH maxed out cancer.

>>96319838
A modern virtual-adept book would be full of cover-to-cover seethig.
>make the internet so that all information would be free,
>the internet has become the greatest source of information destruction, censorship, and corpo control ever invented.
Granted, those smelly fuck actively applaud shit like handing out people's person info, so fuck them with a rusty tire iron.

>>96319874
>A modern virtual-adept book would be full of cover-to-cover seethig.
You say that like even their first book wasn't seething more than all other traditions thrown together.

>>96319874
>>96319894
Hello Agent Johnson, how's it going over at the NWO office? Choked on any Paradox yet?

>>96319789
I mean, Revised veteran would have good attributes, a lot of skills, some good merits and rank x3 gifts of any level equal or below her rank, which basically lets you grab everything you wanted, while leaving room to grow.

W20 veteran is a chargen template with some xp, capped to one gift of her rank.

I know which I prefer.

>>96320001
Do NWO even get raped by Paradox?
I mean, all their shit is subtle or effectively benefits from max Blatancy thanks to thought control and Consensus-shaping, for anything heavy handed they call on IX or PGs...

>>96320049
>Revised veteran would have good attributes, a lot of skills
Anon, your veteran elder has the same amount of skills as a cliath and 3 more attributes. The fuck are YOU smoking?

>>96320163
>Do NWO even get raped by Paradox?
No. Modern sleepers genuinely believe in CIA mind control drugs after the MKUltra files were "Leaked"(read: added to the time table).

just you wait until the finally manage to push the gateway process into public consensus

>>96320196
Are you half-blind or just retarded?
Revised rank 2 veteran gets four attribute dots, sixteen ability dots and five background dots over your rank 2 with 45 xp (who isn't allowed to allocate ability dots to a rating above three or take more than one gift of his rank).

The benefits are more than sufficient to build a competent character.

>>96319413
>Honestly I don't mind the second inquisition
Does Paradox pay you so little that you have to pick up a second job as an internet shill for them?

>>96319874
Virtual Adepts are currently in the middle of near-in-fighting thanks to retards from 2000s.
I feel bad for Old Guards...I never thought I would feel bad for Virtual Adepts.

>>96320483
>Virtual Adepts are currently in the middle of near-in-fighting thanks to retards from 2000s.
DESU the vast majortity of adepts are retards (and they inevitably turn on those who aren't then try to frame the technocucks for it).

>>96320483
Man, that Syndicate book from the previous thread is proven right once again. No wonder The Technocracy is crushing them

>>96320432
>Revised rank 2 veteran gets four attribute dots, sixteen ability dots and five background dots over your rank 2 with 45 xp
Pretty sure anon got cliath and foster mixed up.
beyond that, are you genuinely saying you want garou characters that never gain any ability, background, or freebie dots after rank 2? You really want the difference between rank 1 and 2 to be a higher jump than everything from rank 2 to 5 combined?

>>96320432
>highlights how the revised "veteran garou" template makes rank 2 a bigger hurdle than every high rank combined
>thinks its an own.

>>96319147
>>96319778
The best system would probably be to combine these.
Use the "veteran" template from revised as a base and than award xp according to the "experienced characters" chart.

>>96320483
M20 is so fucking retarded holy shit fuck brucato and his cronies

>>96320637
>brucato

>spend 60 years learning sorcery
>never awaken
>some guy tries to fix his car while knowing nothing about cars
>awakens and fixes his car so well it can now drive at mach 6

>>96320637
Hey, bro, I know it sucks right now.
But everything's going to be even worse with M5.

God I hope the drop M5 soon I need to see how they mutilated the corpse

>>96320543
The other anon is a drooling retard, so naturally.
43 dots is more than enough to get where you need to be in terms of skills for a fast and furious splat. Werewolf ain't old Mage or Sorcerer to try and learn every Knowledge in the books cause they're tantalising 1xp a dot, werewolves have to focus early and fast, the prioritisation of gifts and incremental improvement of attributes and virtues afterwards tracks and feels appropriate.

If you want to dip in play, or, heck, waste freebies on it, nobody's stopping you anyway.

>>96320697
i just hope that when the magefags have a mental breakdown over it, it'll be funny instead of the usual annoying

>>96320669
>that anon who achieved enlightenment while masturbating to futa

>>96320702
>and virtues
Anon, werewolves don't have virtues.

>>96320739
Rage, Gnosis and Willpower.

>>96320669
Probably for the best honestly. Library xp discounts apply to path magic. Those 60 years could make you on par with master mages in a number of areas(not all of them though, and archmages are still laughing at your static-magic).

>>96320743
Those aren't virtues anon.

>>96320669
Use alchemy you fool.
Staying a sorcerer is pretty sweet anyway, they're probably third or fourth nicest splat, and without grand bullshit to ruin their day.

I think M5 will be good
I have no basis for this whatsoever, but I like being optimistic

>>96320771
>without grand bullshit to ruin their day
They mainly have the same issue as mages, which is that they're normal humans for most of their run until they can magic themselves some decent armor or flesh-strengthening spells(shapeshifters non-withstanding).

Where are the rules to create rather than join a Bloodline in 2e Requiem?

>>96320840
Being a rootless sorcerer is rough, that's why they band together into cabals.
Their weakness of starting as squishy human (and possibly dying that way, though both sorcerers and mages can make themselves immortal) ain't that bad compared to day coma, tard rages, allergy to sun or essential features of modern life, and worse stuff other supernaturals get.

What about supernatural desserts like
Vampire Icor Tarts
Gheist-Cream
Swamp Sweet Tea
Thoths Thoughts - Stuffed Dates Wrapped in mummy bandages and predictions written inside
Mage Mango Meringue

>>96320812
I admire your optimism. I can barely feel any.

>>96320919
How many magic sex change operation references do you think it'll have

>>96320938
Since we talked about woofs here recently;
They turned a tribe focused on femininity and motherhood, that basically required you to be able to have children to progress the ranks, into social justice warriors. What do you think?

>>96321012
like most of W5, it's lame

>>96321021
So they will sterilize everything.
Order of Hermes? Celestial Chorus? Euthanatos? Dreamspeakers?
All of them will be stelized. No culture ties, no "triggering" content, no biases or standards.
They will be generic Magicians, Shamans, Priests in very inoffensive matter.

>>96321012
Eh. Rot goes much deeper than that.
Black Furies were supposed to be amazons, damn it.
Then Williams and some time after him Brucato tried to turn them into retarded feminists, and succeeded.

>>96320938
There will be at least 2 trans characters and a one other spell that allows a sex change to happen.

>>96321089
Bunch of fools putting extra retarded focus on standard Life functionality. So you want to be a male or female, learn Life, use it, done. No need to be attention whore all about it.

It's like that dragon in WoW, he wanted to be a little girl, so he turned into one.
And a decade after a bunch of faggots decided to drag "hurr assigned wrong gender at birth" shit over it.

>>96321146
>a decade after
Closer to two decades.

>>96321146
some ppl are so obsessed with gender, made it so core to their personality, that they're incapable of comprehending somebody who's indifferent towards their own sex.

>>96321179
Honestly, it's not even just gender.
Did you hear about that D&D character with wheelchair?
Like, why? Why not fix them? It's like those guys who are proud they are blind or deaf or crippled.

>>96321313
i think that's a separate issue. even in a world of magic there's going to be ppl with some sort of disability. movement impairment, blind, deaf, whatever is going to exist,
the issue their is that the tools they use to address these disabilities are both the same as they are irl despite having vastly different resources at their disposal while at the same time being vastly more effective then they are IRL.
so the first is a character mindset issue while the other is a lazy worldbuilding issue

>>96321313
>>96321440
You know, for many of Masters of the Art's faults, at least it curtailed that rubbish at the gate by forbidding the taking of many Psychological and all Physiological Flaws, because someone not able nor willing to get rid of them would not be an archmage.

>>96321313
>Like, why? Why not fix them?
Because The Player is "proud" that they're disabled, missing the point that the wheelchair itself was made to try to remove a disability as much as could be done with tech.

I updated this Bone Gnawer!
>>96318354
Appreciate the compliment, man! If you wanted to follow me on twitter or instagram and spread my stuff around, that would be good enough for me!

>>96321012
Maybe a controversial opinion, but that's a change for the better. You're probably not going to run a campaign about motherhood or even one where it plays a prominent role. It makes no sense for the faction to be about that. >>96321084 has it right, they should've stuck with amazons but even being angry feminists is better concept for a game than "hey you gotta get knocked up to get promoted".

I can't wrap my ahead around avatars. They're a portion of the soul, but at the same time not and they detach when the host dies?

>>96321830
>Maybe a controversial opinion
No, it's just wrong. I don't care if you don't think motherhood is a good basis for a tribe, switching gears to social justice warrior or angry feminists is not an upgrade.

>>96322007
>They're a portion of the soul, but at the same time not and they detach when the host dies?
Welcome to the cognative idssonance of mages. We have literal proof from multiple angles that avatars are an extradimensional thing not inherent to humans, but mages still wax on about the inherent power of the human condition.
The actual power of humanity is Numina, whether it's true faith, sorcery, chi etc, all of which can be done without an avatar.

>>96322036
>The actual power of humanity is Numina
Ah Yes, the supernatural power of mid.

>>96311640 (OP)
>You are a Mage, in real life, what's the first thing you do? Become beautiful? Get riches? Go bully someone? Visit 4chan to gloat?

Roughly in order? Think I'm crazy, realize I'm not, cackle madly. With that out of the way, sit down and have big think. Start using Mind and Life on myself to try and fix my issues. Then start to wonder who else got magic, and if I know I'm a WoD mage specifically, worry about what else might've come over.

>>96313177
I'd love a long version.

>>96322036
>all of which can be done without an avatar
Can also be stacked until you're basically an exalted character in wod. Seriously, humanity is one visit to the great library of stygia away from becoming the strongest splat

>>96311640 (OP)
>TQ:
Not terribly familiar with Mage, but probably do minor illusions, or make pies float off window sills. I'd want all of these things to look like 50's SciFi practical effects, to prevent Paradox

As for the Bonus Question, I'd say a Hunter from HtR. It would be a terrifying world of struggle, but knowing there are Creatures of the Knight behind a majority of society's ills, and they can be killed to make a better world, I would happily lose myself to the Hunt. More noble to go out swinging. If I get to choose Creed, it'd be Avenger, Defender, or Martyr.

>>96322227
>Laughs as True Faith kills an antediluvian

>>96322422
Which one? The only confirmed kills are Ventru because the writers were lazy as hell and Ravnos because the writers were lazy as shit.
Even Set survived an encounter with Jesus and he is the one guy who should have been killed by that kind of shit.

>>96322515
>Even Set survived an encounter with Jesus
"Survived is a stretch. He still died, but then he magically gets better in some scenarios. It's never explained.

>>96322549
The point still stands, True Faith is probably the most mediocre supernatural ability at everything besides fucking over vampire and it isn't even good at doing that.

>>96322690
True Faith is a storyteller tool. It's written to be strong as you want it to be. It can be a nuke, it can be a rebuke.

>>96322714
I understand that, the problem I have with it is how the thing has lost any sense of weight. Just throw a brick at the priest and most of the time the problem is solved.

My players want a much more scary Werewolf The Apocalypse game
Any ideas?
My first one was have them be hunted by something similar to a Sin Eater from Gheist the sin eaters
A Grondor has come back from oblivion to hunt any and all Werewolves
I'll give the Antagonist beefed up ghost magic and add a greater piggy war form that can't be killed
It's a deadly chase one-shot
>Working on ghost pig audio right now

>>96322888
Mokolé

>>96322753
It only loses the sense of weight if you consider the system (as in the editions of the system) as a whole. Otherwise, each edition has more or less the same powerlevel within it's books.

>>96322690

Some of the Dark Ages Inquisitor manifestations of it are pretty intense, actually. Like, "quit hitting yourse... oops, you killed yourself with the first attack, never mind" levels of BS.

>>96322942
I love how clearly that werewolf's expression communicates just how bad a day he's having.

>>96323520
>Dark Ages Inquisitor
Weirdly enough, DAI also opens the door to inquisitors gaining sorcery paths and psychic powers as "Holy Arts". Their priced exactly the same and function like 5 dot aspectless sorcery/psychic paths.

>>96322942
Why does he have three fingers on each hand? Is he a Metis?

>>96323572
Nah, he's just a lizard. Lizards and birds having only 3 claws is actually a really common trait.

>>96323520
Inquisitors are just built different. My personal favorite blessings are night-of-arc's "fuck your extra actions" infinite dodge ability and the nun's "I cast Nuclear Holocaust!".

>>96323585
Not him, the guy he's making a snack of.

>>96323572
if i remember correctly this is actually a first team fomori. the comic starts with garou getting ready to do their epic battle pentex only for a Mokolé and Bastet to crash the party and beat both parties

I think this may be the only place on the internet where I can ask this, and even then my motives will probably be questioned, but here I go:
In my Mage game, I want to include muslim antagonists/rivals. Originally I thought of using the Ahl-i-batin but after actually reading their book I found them to be quite boring and not... zealous enough for what I'm looking for.
Do you guys have any suggestions?

>>96323752
Perhaps the Taftani could be a helpful reference?
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Taft%C3%A2ni

>>96323787
Taftani are zoroastrian and arabic pagans.
Anon said he wants "muslim" antagonists, so I'm guessing it's more of a matter of religion and beliefs than just geographical location or race.

Now with color!

>>96323936
cute!

>>96323752
>and not... zealous enough for what I'm looking for.
True Muslims have no business being mages, vampires etc.

I know HtR has many faults, but please check out Holy War. Lore that you want aside, Muslim imbued are a bit more threatening than normal ones.

Not that they would match mages 1:1, obviously, but Muslim fanatics in a Muslim land are a threat because they're thoroughly entrenched in society, all too willing to make the sacrifice, and when you get rid of one a dozen steps up in their place.

>>96323936
Nice, keep up the good work!

>>96324034
That does leave the question... what happens if a devout sunni or shia muslim awakens?

>>96324100
>What are Celestial Chorus Septarians?

>>96324205
Weren't those like super annoying christian nationalists or something?

>>96324224
They’re basically the “conservative” faction of the Choristers. They acknowledge the One, but don’t really want to interact with others if they don’t have to. A Septarian could belong to any of the more extreme denominations, not necessarily Christians.

>>96324100
Two ways you could go about it: either they already express that gift through their True Faith; or they received a message and specific purpose from Al-A‘la, and their Avatar is the messenger. In either case Dogmatic flaw is appropriate, and in latter case one or a couple of Higher Purpose, Manifest Avatar, Guardian Angel or True Faith merits are recommended.

>>96324100
A gruesome rape spree in a major European city. So, Tuesday.

I love my Swan Maiden gf so much, bros!

>>96324285
>mantle
LMAO, someone likes to be blue balled. Also, beware the Dark Fate flag.

>>96314481
Looks dope. Hope to catch it in one these threads when you finish

>>96324285
>>96324300
This reminds me I should work on my Swan Maiden character. She's in love with her chimeric living weapon.

>>96324363
>She's in love with her chimeric living weapon.
Chronic black furry player, I see.

what's the highest soak a vampire in vtm can get?

>>96324370
No, I just like playing girlfailures.

>>96324373
Technically something like two dozen dice and quartered damage, but ST will kick you out long before that.

>>96324382
I mean, that also tracks.

>>96324363
>She's in love with her chimeric living weapon
Is that a motherfucking Soul Eater reference???

>>96324385
this is not for a chronicle i am just curious

>>96322007
It's easy.
Human soul is one thing that is more than it's parts.
A normal human soul has like, 6-8 parts if you dive deep into lore but most common part mentioned is Avatar.
It's like The Beast, that's a part of the soul corrupted/transformed by the Curse of Caine and if you get rid of it entirely, your vampire loses his drive and the ability regain Willpower

>>96324397
Yes, and also a Guilty Gear reference.

>>96324428
God, I miss old ABA before ArcSys sold out with Strive.

>>96323752
the celestial chorus is literally right there anon

>>96322007
a paychotic delusion caused by your overwhelming intellect being to much for your puny human brain to handle

>>96323936
Neat, did you had a specific story in mind when you drew this?

>>96322992
>Otherwise, each edition has more or less the same powerlevel within it's books
Kinda, despite some outliers like >>96323520 is talking about, when they give mechanics in other splat books they come off as way too weak to serve act as proper enemies.
Sure you could pull the power nullifiers and nukes, just don't expect things to go well.

>>96324373
Fortitude 5 + Stamina 5 + 1 Specialization + 4 Armor + 3 Blood Buff + 1 from Visceratika + 10 from Armor of Caine’s Fury.

I'm sure I missed a lot of shit like how shape shifting could add like 3 to 8 dice depending on what the fuck you go for but this is the best I can thinking off right now.

>>96324680
>Visceratika
Based Tremere slaves.

>>96324373
the koldunic sorcerer version of the dracon's form tripples your stats and shatterproof allows you to soak agg damage with stamina

armory of darkness allows you to summon shadow armor over your dragon form in case you don't want to sit down and make your minions build you a custom made dragon sized armor

>>96324373
I assume using only Elder discipline powers/combo disciplines given example in the books? Since Elders can design their own powers and vampires as a whole can create their own combo disciplines.

A 4th Gen Methuselah Lasombra with Fortitude
Fortitude 9 + Aegis of Shadows 10 (on average, assuming 18 dice, even with no bonus or specilization, I expect at least 10 successes) Armory of the Abyss + 9

And that's without something as trivial as getting your Stamina to soak Agg. Like Shatterproof or Skin of a Adder. Hell, this dude would have created something like that using Fortitude + Ontenebration combo discipline.

So with Stamina 9 + 9 + 10 + 9, we have 37 Agg soak here.
It gets reduced to 18 against Sunlight and Fire if you don't use things to defend against, like Fortify Against Ahura Mazda, Elemental Stoicism etc. But really, this is nothing special and without any custom powers or combos.

Where's my overly attached elf?

>>96316425
>Gurahl Harano is just called Bear Night
Kek wtf

>>96324919
... Wrong thread? Something about Changeling?

>>96324919
Slaves are a Merit in CtL, so probably still waiting for a good owner in the isle of damaged goods with a hefty discount.
You can buy love. But the price is never worth it...

>>96322007
The most coherent explanation I have seen is that they are soul symbiotes. Like a human soul is an individual organelle and the Avatar is the entire cell.

>>96324034
You saying they're locked from the True Faith trait? I don't know about mages, but Assamites feel like they easily fill out that niche, especially with Veil Of Night

>>96318405
On one hand, I want to make some art there but on the other hand, my apathy creeps in and says why bother.

Didn't Ventrue have a bloodline called "Ventrue Knight" that got Auspex instead of Presence or did I dream this
I can't find any info by searching that name

>>96326296
It’s a sabbat bloodline*.I don’t remember it actually having a name.

*you can also do a weird ritual and join them, changing your in clan disciplines, according to Lore of the clans.

>>96326296
Ventrue Antitribu got Auspex instead of presence for one edition, then it got brought back as a merit in V20. Basically a ritae that replaces one in-clan with the other.

You probably got confused because the Ventrue Antitribu like to style themselves as knights (being disproportionately represented in the Inquisition, for example) as a fuck you to the Camarilla Ventrue, who adjusted with the times. Of course like most Sabbat appeals to virtue it's paper thin but hey.

>>96326296
They can have it as a merit if they are born to those Sabbat Antitribu or if they go through St. Gustav Mallenhaus ritual.

>>96326355
>the rite involves ingestion of copious amounts of semen
Grim. Camarilla Ventrue are the superior Ventrue.

>>96311640 (OP)
I've been trying to work on a Dragon splat for CofD but I kinda have a hard time deciding what to focus on working on.
If any of you can look through it and either give some ideas, ask for an expansion on a subject or ask for more in a given direction that would help
I was inspired by the Dagon spalt by fish anon
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11sUtiIqPA-T9l8ToHyaAAk4et_Pj0J6iRgWbjGWj5ns/edit?usp=drivesdk
You can comment here or on the doc

>>96324646
Not a really complex one. A trio of Sabbat were just feeding on a human, ripped his throat out. But unbeknownst to them, these alleys are watched over by a very gnarly Bone Gnawer. Their gory deaths are imminent.
The Bone Gnawer himself is a veteran of his sept, and he has a large chunk of his fur permanently burned away due to a past battle with a balefire-oozing monstrosity.

>>96326382
>ingestion of copious amounts of semen
You know, this and the "blood replaces all fluids" discussion from a couple threads back has me wondering how many degenerate sabbat packs perform vaulderie by jerking off into the sacred bowl instead of cutting themselves like proper emos.
By extension, can't most blood magic substitute the "cutting yourself and pouring the blood into the circle" part with "jerking off onto the ritual implements"? You'd save so much blood on healing

>>96326633
Cut onions and you save yourself the humanity loss

>>96326633
>You'd save so much blood on healing
unless you ejaculate big quantity of vitae, you'd be there frotting for nights

>>96326633
>You'd save so much blood on healing
Bite, bleed, lick.

>>96326587
Neat stuff. Thanks as always for sharing your art.

>>96326660
Fetishistic degeneracy isn't a sin tracked by humanity, however it is tracked by true faith according to dark ages inquisitor.
Being a sex pest isn't a sin against your fellow man, it's a sin against God.

>>96326681
Here’s the correct way.

>>96326674
Wouldn't a vampire be able to ejaculate exactly as much vitae as their generation can spend per turn? While 13 gens would be stuck cumming teaspoons, methusela could cum literal buckets like an angsty hentai protagonist.

>>96326633
>>96326711
>Why are these the posts getting dubs?
This is the kind of eldritch knowledge that should have remained unknown.

>>96326711
they can consume large amounts of vitae
can't really say ejaculating is equal to consumption
also blush of life cost

>>96326734
According to clanbook giovanni, you just need to spend a bp to ejaculate a bp. It's how they feed their ghouls.

>>96326803
I should have known the writers already thought about that

>>96326382
>Camarilla Ventrue are the superior Ventrue.

I don't think that was ever in doubt. The Camarilla Ventrue are one of its pillars and clearly the most politically powerful clan within it. They lead in number of princes by a titanic margin and are effectively synonymous with the Camarilla to the Camarilla's enemies.

The Sabbat Ventrue founded the Sabbat Inquisition, the most chronically inept group within the Sabbat. They're gatekept out of leadership by the Lasombra and Tzimisce (since they're very low in number it's not like they can contest this) and honestly the whole "we're knights and shit" routine just shows how little they actually get it. The Ventrue did not originate as feudal lords and grim blood knights. In ancient times they were god-kings, in the classical era they were generals and aristocratic political schemers, and now in the modern nights they've embraced the corporate and bureaucratic paths to power. They've always changed to fit the reality of acquiring power and it's why they've been consistently at the top for so long. The Sabbat Ventrue cling to a shabby imitation of an antiquated system and call it virtue, while they surround themselves with the worst specimens of unlife conceivable.

>>96326697
I meant killing all those sperm you homophobic piece of shit

>>96327337
>le homophobic
Why do you keep using that word? Nobody's afraid of a faggot. Afraid of the horrific STDs they spread everywhere thanks to their disgusing lifestyle making them living cauldrons of disease, yes. Faggots themselves? No.

>>96327337
>homophobic
I'm trying to look through the comment chain to see where literally anyone mentioned gay people, and the only comment I find is yours right here.
Have you ever considered the possibility that no one is talking about you?

>>96327465
>Fetishistic degeneracy
>sex pest
It's starting you in the face anon

>>96327659
That could be anything from porn addiction to foot fetish to scat to vore to handholding and anal.
...did your own bias against gay people made you assume they meant gay people or just wanted to bait trolls like >>96327415

Is there a repository of homebrew content somewhere that isn't the fangames?

>>96324100
>devout
>sunni
Hahahahaha

>>96322888
I've been working on a chronicle involving a BSD pack trying to corrupt Boar into Breeding Sow. It'll take the players through shit lakes and abattoirs. Inspired by that one Clive Barker story from Books of Blood.

>>96329305
The second mega has STV stuff mixed in with the regular, there's also the sharethread which has STV stuff on it.

>>96321791
>>96323936
Beautiful work! Like a lot seeing your process.
>follow me on instagram
Oh, I already do, silly anon! :3

>>96326587
That's neat.

>>96326803
I just checked and it was just one guy who made his sister (of course, kek) into a ghoul.

>>96326587
I've always been under the impression that the Sabbat's tendency to engage in random acts of unsubtle douchebaggery causes them to be the first obvious encounter with vampires most humans or even other supernaturals have, and thus, give vampires a really bad reputation to everyone else.

Not to say that vampires should have a good reputation per se, but the Sabbat gives everyone a really bad first impression.

Hey guys , i just learned about "beast the primordial" and i dont get it , can you transform into a real flesh and blood monster at some point(like a werewolf) or your character is just "roleplaying" one ?

ty for your attention

>>96329824
Nope.
Even the abilities that allow you to do supernatural shit are invisible to everyone else. You're the monster within.

I own all these books just because they are my favorite thing to kill in any CoD game

>>96330164
What splat do you play when killing dogs?

>>96324205
>>96324264
>>96324265
I think a septarian chorister fits what I'm looking for here. Thanks.
>>96324034
I'm definitely checking out Holy War, as I also need imbued antagonists. It sounds like a really cool book. Thank you!

>>96330164
Forsaken woofs themselves or their large host of antagonists?

Can a vampire who is Riding the Wave remain conscious enough to vocalize, maybe even sing? It's what a player of mine asked, his character is a Daeva metalhead with all five dots of Riding the Wave style and he wants to sing a song he wrote while he battles some Belial's Brood licks. I found it so retarded it looped all the way around to hilariously cool, and he was polite enough to ask in the first place, so even though I want to say yes I'd like to know if there's the slightest backing for it in the rules so I'll have enough of an excuse to give him the go-ahead.

>>96330107
That's so weird compared to the other books where supernatural beings are real, ty for the answers.

>>96330164
>spending over five hundred dollars on a tabletop game that you don't even play
more money than sense desu

>>96330480
the beast might not sing, but it can certainly growl
try to see if he can growl his song

Update on this one!
>>96326686
Thanks!
>>96329547
oh you do? My tsailerol_friend3000 page, right? I wasn't aware it was circulating out there!
>>96329601
You're probably right! My personal feeling is that of all vampires, Sabbat are actually the MOST numerous, while Camarilla tends to attract a far higher quality of Embraces.

>>96326382
I like the concept of a Ventrue bloodline that is knight to regular Ventrue's king and maybe sees nobility as fighting and defending for a cause instead of ruling over others and thinks the rule from the behind the scenes Ventrue are too cowardly but I'm not a big fan of the execution

>>96330703
>bone gnawer

>>96330703
really, really nice

>>96330490
Beast is... weird in every possible way.
And not cool weird like Wraith or Promethean. Weird in that "leaves a bad taste in your mouth" type of way.

>>96326296
i know i am late but dav20 also has it as one of it's bloodlines the one from the 4th gen who supposedly fought of Set, but those are more the antisocial ventrue instead of the knight ventrue

>The Line of Nefer-meri-Isis
>Optional System: Lower the difficulty of Survival and Investigation rolls by two, when pursuing them without aid. Increase the difficulty of Social-based rolls by two, when having to follow orders. Many Ventrue descended from Nefer-meri-Isis have Auspex as a Clan Discipline, instead of Presence.
Dark Ages Companion (2017) pg 41
>>96326338
i am to this day convinced that this was just a typo that was made canon, nothing in the sabbat book mentioned why they have auspex or should be considered a bloodline, but people like auspex so they made up two different reasons for ventrue to have it

>>96330860
The whole idea of ventrue mini-bloodlines was pretty cool.

>>96330687
Bit of a shame but no big loss. I'll say yes anyway, maybe rule that during Frenzy his metal growl sounds a lot more bestial and inhuman and he slurs his words a bit.

>>96330907
yeah they been neat. Wonder if they had anything to do with inspiring loresheets as several of those are basically mini bloodlines

i am a bit curious: what is the longest you guys every played a character?

for me it's around 3 years and i wanted to know if that is common

>>96330725
The only Bone Gnawers that REALLY stink are the Wyrm-tainted ones! At least, in my opinion.
>>96330788
Thanks dude! I do find it odd that so little of the art of VtM really shows vampires ripping throats and feasting on living blood and generally being bloodsucking monsters

>>96330703
Nice

>>96330703
>You're probably right! My personal feeling is that of all vampires, Sabbat are actually the MOST numerous, while Camarilla tends to attract a far higher quality of Embraces.
they mention several times in the books the sabbat SHOULD be the most numerous as they embrace more but they are too retarded to keep those numbers up

as of 1998 they just killed 2/3 of their ENTIRE SECT in a civil war again and are behind the camarilla in population again... which leadership spins are them now being more elite and spirited than the camarilla!

>>96331260
>as of 1998 they just killed 2/3 of their ENTIRE SECT in a civil war again and are behind the camarilla in population again
Thanks, sabbat!

>>96331283
that's what happens when you put a toreador in charge

>>96331301
wtf, I love the toreador now!

>>96331301
More like retarded writers in charge

What if you use the Manifest Avatar merit in order to have sex with your Avatar?

>>96331392
The ST politely, but firmly, asks you to leave.

>>96331392
Technically masturbation but have fun.
>>96331455
I mean, have you see some of the Cult of Ecstasy mages? That's downright tame, compared to literal example characters of the Cult.

>player wants to play city gangrel
okay i said it's a sabbat game
>additional discipline quietus
for fucks sake

>>96331572
Kek
Let the guy have some fun.

>>96331572
Some small redflags but could be way worse.
If he is getting only to the Claws for Protean and has a bunch of dots in Celerity without any Animalism?

If so, get ready for a mono-combat focused Gangrel. A classic really. I suggest you suggest him to get some Animalism for scouting potential. If he doesn't want to, bait him with something shiny for his combat character like Bear's Skin and how in the future he can create combo disciplines like that.

>>96331494
Luv my Ecstatics. Simple as.

>>96331631
>>96331636
oh nvm the player wants to go full in on stealth + flying and hasn't taken a single dot in celerity
quietus is to poison the place she flies to while being a invisible bird

>>96331689
Oh nice, here I though he was going all in on combat and making a beeline towards something like Retain the Quick Blood

>>96331572
Is he allergic to ass mites or what? They're the munchkin edgelord clan with Quietus, Celerity and Obfuscate.

>>96331725
>Is he allergic to ass mites or what?
i mean could you blame him?

>>96331572
>>96331689
>Obfuscate
>Protean
>Quietus
Why doesn’t he just make his PC a Pander at this point? Much less headache.

>>96331572
I commonly play City Gangrel. Cause I love gargoyles, but their additional weaknesses are unfair bullshit.

I also dig that slowly becoming a rocky monster story.

>>96331742
>Why doesn’t he just make his PC a Pander at this point?
No in-clan celerity and higher costs overall lol. The dude really should play assamite.

Me, thinking about the Norfolk Wizard Game: "What if Parker isn't the one with Inverted Avatar and it's actually Samson?"
Granted I was half asleep when I thought of this and my datapoints were just the following:
>Samson was being followed by a Spooky Ghost Man before he Awakened
>He had the "brilliant" idea to drink skull sludge connected to the Crab Book
>His Avatar is a hand emerging from the ground.

>>96329824
https://writeups.letsyouandhimfight.com/kurieg/beast-the-primordial/

Enjoy.
Beast was written by a guy that liked to molest teen girls. It is a fascinating look into the mind of an abuser and the mental gymnastics they perform. Which sucks because the idea of a Beast and a Hero playing out the ur-myth over and over again could be fascinating. Both of them trapped in their roles, knowing that the story only ends when one of them is dead, its a nice little tragedy they could have created.

But no. Hero are all gamergaters and Beasts are all persecuted minorities that are just trying to teach you something while they rape you in your dreams.

>>96331911
It is my headcanon that the writer always saw himself as the Beast and his "Hero" as Gaston (from Beauty and the Beast).
The Beast was in many ways abusive towards Belle, and Gaston was a "false, idiot hero." The author's abuser mindset probably saw that movie during an impressionable age and eventually used the whole concept to justify his fucked up behavior in ways that make Brucato seem like a stand-up fellow.
>Hero are all gamergaters and Beasts are all persecuted minorities that are just trying to teach you something while they rape you in your dreams.
You know what's funny? I've seen some right-ish/chud-ish people on twitter claim Gaston did nothing wrong, while at the same time pointing out how left-ish/onions-ish people tend to identify with monsters in media.
Maybe Beast: the Primordial was onto something after all.

>>96331911
>the idea of a Beast and a Hero playing out the ur-myth over and over again could be fascinating. Both of them trapped in their roles, knowing that the story only ends when one of them is dead, its a nice little tragedy they could have created.
Could have even worked as a more wieldable version of Wraith's Shadow system.
Each player gets to control both his Beast and another player's Hero.

>>96331911
I still remember reading Beast and seeing how book positively described traumatizing a teenager for stealing candy through literally choking with a plastic bag, turning his house into her lair, literally tormenting him with nightmares and horrors every night.

And they say Heroes are bad. I don't want any Beast near me.

>>96331959
I had an idea that the Hero should be someone they know, that seems to be a trope for modern anti-heroes. Will Graham and Hannibal, Hank in Breaking Bad, a variety of Dexter's colleagues going after him, etc.

>>96331949
The Chuds arent wrong on this. Beast is very rapist. And the book does a lot trying to lionize and justify these rapists. Vampire, the game about the other rapists, spends a lot of time pointing out how horrible you are. How big a monster you are. How your very existence as an undead parasite is wrong.

But not Beasts. Beasts are the real victims here. And the people that try to stop them are all close minded glory hunters even though half of them are actual victims that the defenders of the book tried to vilify like a teenage girl that was put in a coma by Beasts and now is hunting them to try and wake up.

Oh and all the other Chronicles supernaturals think they're just super cool (except Demons for some reason.).

So where Vampire, the OG rapist game, has a tone of melancholy and tragedy and horror at the things you play as, Beast celebrates it. They're the misunderstood teachers of humanity and the evil reactionaries just don't understand. So its a -good- thing that we torture you every night. Don't you see we're doing it for your benefit?

God the more memories I dredge up about Beast the more disgusted I grow with it once more.

Are there any groups of humans that are neutral to the hidden world? I wanna play a human among supernaturals, without having to contrive a reason why I'm not chewing at the bit wanting to murder my fellow players' characters.

>>96332101
you could just be your own person

>>96332101
A human can have any view you want on supernaturals. The real question is: Why do those supernaturals accept you?
As for groups a psychic's/sorcerer's society will probably be curious about supernatural creatures.

>>96332119
True, my other idea was a lone gunman who made sure to invest himself and learn about the secret world as much as he can, to avoid getting brutally murdered while he takes contracts for being a surprisingly good mercenary.
But that sounds kind of anime and Mary Sue.

>>96332101
Theoretically yeah, there's nothing stopping you save if you're dealing with a werewolf and get hit with delerium/lunacy. Otherwise you'll just be at a strength disadvantage.

>>96332257
And I imagine Smith and Wesson helps equals the strength part

>>96332171
if you're worried about a concept sounding too anime/mary sue-ish you can just tone it down. instead of being a lone gunslinger mercenary he's just a bounty hunter that mainly goes after tax/fine dodging rednecks. more of a killpatrick from bloodlines type

>>96331725
>ass mites
The player has some self respect.
Not much, but clearly some.

>>96329327
Shiite opinion

>>96332277
Eh, depends. Most playable supernaturals can use a gun just fine. Is this a thought experiment or is there an actual game on the table where you want to play a normal human in a party of supernatural creatures?

>>96332513
Just a thought experiment. I just like the idea of a guy who should, by every right, be outclassed, but somehow is on equal footing. It's so badass

>>96332537
Well with enough experience, anything is possible. Your character would need to be on some batman levels of physically adept and smart, with a massive arsenal if he wanted to hang with the big boys. Granted, such a character could bully a lot of lower weight class supernaturals, provided he doesn't get arrogant. Were you thinking oWoD, nWoD, some combination of the two? And since it's a thought experiment how much do you care about mechanics v.s. setting conventions?

>>96332513
Probably my fav piece of art from WtA

Fellow kindred, do you carry concealed weapons?
Daily, not when shtf.
If so, what do you carry?

>>96332592
oWoD, since that's what the two or three people who have books have.
I care more about setting convention, I suppose, so CE the game isn't exactly heavy on mechanics(I come from GURPS).
I was thinking a young veteran who experienced something spooky on deployment and he would get his arsenal by obsessively going to gunshows and military surplus stores.

This week in my HtV game the players hunted down their first proper Slasher and killed him. He'd gone on a bit of a rampage earlier that morning and killed 3 people, putting his body count at 6 which tipped him over the threshold into becoming a Scourge. His body was twisted and he found it absorbed whatever he touched. He'd stolen a dog last session, and when the PCs caught up with him later in the day, the dog had merged with his spine, back-to back as the Bodybagger was carrying the dog by its collar over his shoulder, like a binbag.

Rather than let the Slasher lick his wounds and recover, the PCs raced there straight after work. Unbeknownst to them, the Bodybagger had some Dread Powers now, so they were caught completely unprepared when all of the lights including their flashlights suddenly went out and he rushed them in the dark. Rebecca, the PE teacher got lucky however and caught him with a cricket bat. Duncan, our game hunter managed a shot off in tthe dark also and then Rebecca secured the kill by cracking the slashers head into chunks of bone and meat.

Some other Slashers have recently made themselves known as well. A mail order Thai Bride has brutally murdered her abusive husband and will kill again if she finds other men mistreating their partners. A Bouncer has awoken from an induced coma after a fight outside a nightclub, and killed an orderly before escaping.

I'm really enjoying running this game, but I really don't like CofD's reliance on Conditions and Tilts.

>>96333080
Good to hear your game is still running.

>but I really don't like CofD's reliance on Conditions and Tilts.
That's a common complaint. Personally I really like tilts, especially in how they relate to called shots in combat, but often times conditions feel like they add an unnecessary step that should just be included in the power itself. My advice is to make yourself (and players) a quick cheat sheet or even just print them all out if you're playing in person. It makes the process a lot easier.

How would you represent using Obfuscate or Nightmare defensively to make your opponent hit an illusion or afterimage of you rather than the real you? Just add your Discipline dots to Defense?

>>96332704
Unless you've got Protean claws and are confident in them, I see no reason why you wouldn't. Even then, carry a gun in case someone's at a distance you can't claw at. Even if you're in a place with very strict private weapon ownership laws, there's not much of a downside in the first place since you're already risking a masquerade breach if you get caught by the police. That and many common disciplines can easily solve any low level run-ins with the law.

Are Disciplines associated with evil or demonic forces evil themselves, like Obtenebration or Daimonion? Or are they just powers of the blood itself that happen to have that theme and you only have to worry about corrupt powers with thaumaturgy like Abyss Mysticism or Kupala's brand of koldunism?

>>96333296
All Disciplines are evil because all Disciplines were created and are used by vampires.

>>96332704
A few magically concealed sidearms and stilettos that ignore defensive powers are my standard Mage, Sorcerer and Tremere concealed load-outs, though preferably I would leave close combat to specialists. A staff or cane (trick them out with heavy metal heads for extra damage) are also pretty good if you have weapon-enhancing powers.
Gargoyles, Gangrel, Tzimisce and adjacents have natural weapons. Brujah and Pander always have a sawn-off and an axe, a hammer, knuckledusters or shivs somewhere on their person.
I don't tend to pack when I play non-combat clans, because they're neither paranoid nor belligerent enough, nor thematically fit to be always armed.

>>96333296
Depends on if you consider Lilith and Caine to be demonic/evil. Since Caine instantly learned the three physicals upon his pseudo-embrace and then Lilith taught him three other common ones. So all the "normal" disciplines come from those two. Source: Book of Nod.

>>96333196
Protean really is the "swiss army knife" discipline, isn't it?

>>96333343
Only in Requiem 2e.

Do we know what happened to the Second City, why it fell? Was it infighting, Baali, hunters...?

I feel like I've gotten contradictory offhand references in various places but no actual info. The doom of the First City is pretty clear, but the Second?
Maybe I've just been looking in the wrong places...

>>96333296
Don't you have to make deals with demons use Daim? Obte isn't evil at all

>>96333296
I mean, Daimonion's 9 Dot example ability is sacrificing yourself to your Demon Lord and bring him to the world and Obtenebration is connected to what is essentially guys who want the whole universe to die. And Obtenebration at higher levels can fuck you up.

But at least, compared to Daimonion, Obtenebration is just that, a link.

>>96333296
Does it ever go into how Eldesst got vicissitude?

>>96333575
>compared to Daimonion, Obtenebration is just that, a link.
Weirdly enough, Daimoinon has way more applications as a discipline for good guys than Obtenebration. First level lets you see the sins someone has commited and nearly every other level(except 3) is variations on "Punish them for their Sins".
It's not until elder levels that the discipline lets you do things that are actually outright Evil, but elder levels are always designed by the user...

>>96333630
One of Tzimisce contacted it in Deep Umbra and brought it back.

>>96333446
>Don't you have to make deals with demons use Daim?
Nope. Daimoinon is just the baali in-clan. There weren't any rules for using it turning you "evil" until v20, and even then it was a variant rule rather than an actual rule.

>>96333296
None of the disciplines are any more or less "Evil" than the core disciplines. Blood magic is a different beast though, there are kinds of blood magic you can't even access without an evil power influencing you.

>>96333644
>Deep Umbra
Nta but what was this? A different thing from Low Umbra? I think I'm confusing terminology again...

>>96333680
Different. Deep Umbra is where all alien, bizarre and lovercraftian shit is. Underworld/Low Umbra is the land of the dead and adjacent things.

Little known fact about the baali: Baali clan-members canonically call each other "anon" according to their clanbook.

>>96333724
anon means soon

>>96333724
T-this: >>96333736
I'm not in contact with any baali.

>>96333736
Convenient alibi
>>96333759
>I'm not in contact with any baali.
>Didn't say he wasn't a baali himself
I thought the clan of the hive was better at lying than this. You are a shame to your elders.

Are Kyasid infernalists?

They seem more connected to the fae, but there are a few odd references here and there that make me a bit unsure. Maybe they are connected to both, or maybe it was just ignorant outsiders that didn't understand fae, idk.

>>96333405
>I feel like I've gotten contradictory offhand references in various places but no actual info.

Personally I like my deep lore contradictory. There's actually far fewer references to the Second City than you might think. Its only mention in the Book of Nod is the Ventrue Antediluvian talking to his childer. It gets a one page mention in the Revised Storyteller's Handbook, and shows up again in Clanbook Ventrue Revised and VTDA Road of the Beast. There might be other times it pops up but I don't know them.

In fact, the Erciyes Fragments contradict the existence of a second city. It states that right after the flood, BEFORE, the destruction of the second generation and cursing of the third, that, and I quote
>In time they spread across the earth.
>As they had been commanded to do.
>They built great cities, with palaces of stone.
So yeah, it's pretty contradictory.

All that being said, if there was a second city, I believe it would definitely have been infighting that did it in. The good old Jyhad.

>>96333630
Multiple options, none of which are confirmed.
>It's a corrupted form of Protean, the result of The Eldest's embrace. Irad the Strong used Protean to "expel the evil from his body and into a mortal", who Enoch then embraced to see what would happen.
>Got it in a pact with Kupala, the Earthbound of the Carpathians
>It's a disease from the Umbra.

Personally I like the corrupted protean angle the best.

>>96333800
>Main source of info on the second city is the ventrue
It's very possible that the "second city" was just what [Ventrue] called his personal city, because it was obviously the only important city after the First City(according to [Ventrue]).

>>96333815
If the final form of Viss came from the umbra like some sources claim, then the mystery of what the Tzimisce in-clan was before the invention of kaldunic blood magic remains.
It might be that protean was what the clan of metamorphosis had before Viss and Blood Magic were big things.

>>96333815
>Got it in a pact with Kupala, the Earthbound of the Carpathians
Pretty sure modern kaldunism is the thing they got from kupala. Modern sabbat ways function more like infernalist blood magic than the old kraina do.

>>96333789
>Are Kyasid infernalists?
The majority? No.
There is an offshoot infernalist bloodline that has obtenebration, mytheceria, and necromancy as their in-clans though.

>>96333639
Counterpoint, Obtenebration has the straight up best ability across all Disciplines against Demons and other eldritch BS.

>>96333680
High Umbra (Also known as Astral Umbra): Realm of Concepts and Gods, Heavens and Hells.
The Middle Umbra: Nature stuff and the place Werewolves go in and out a lot.
Low Umbra (Also known as Dark Umbra and the Underworld): Where Wraiths go to.

Deep Umbra: The farther you are from Earth, the more Umbras blend in, until they become one. This is Deep Umbra, past the Astroid Belt.

Fun fact, the Technocracy has a great map for it. But with different names because they are autists like that.

>>96333819
It's all possible. I like how contradictory and/or vague information on the earliest of nights is. Helps the feeling of ancient conspiracies going back to the dawn of history when even the methuselah are working on partial and possibly falsified information.

>>96333833
To be completely fair, the umbra thing was pretty much just in Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand, and was very poorly received by a lot of people at the time. "Space AIDS" became the mocking term for it.

I prefer the notion that whether Vic was inherent or acquired, the Eldest has no childer still around that predate it.

>>96333841
Yes he's also credited for that more frequently.

Neonateanon! Go investigate those >>96333724
rumours and exonerate yoursel- I mean, prove there's no such "Tremere anon" dealing with infernalists.

>>96333369
>>96333343
To be fair, Requiem's take on Protean cannibalized Abombwe.

>>96333945
To be fair Protean was so badly designed Vicissitude upstaged it as the actual shapeshifting Discipline.

>>96332101
>So what's up with this guy?
>Oh him? He's just Jim.
>So... what's his clan?
>Oh he's kine. He's just a chill guy.

>Why do we let this human into our Caern?
>I dunno. He just showed up one day.
>So do we rip him apart or... ?
>Nah he sometimes brings treats
>...
>The good ones. The expensive kind.
>... fine.

>I have a bad feeling about this new acolyte you got
>Who? I didn't induct anyone new
>That guy over there holding the ceremonial goblet
>Ah. That's Jim. He's not really an acolyte.
>Then what the hell is he doing here? He could be a Technocrat spy!
>Nah Jim would never do that.

>Sir. I have concerns regarding this mundane, codename "Jim"
>Elaborate, agent.
>I have good reason to believe he works with other reality deviants. It's alarming that we don't even have records of him passing or background ch-
>I'm gonna stop you right there, agent.
>Why?
>Jim is an invaluable asset.
>Is he a double agent?
>No. He's just a friend.
>What?
>Helps keep the morale up.
>...
>You should talk to him.

>>96333815
Irad version is the only clearly wrong one. Protean was developed by Ennoia. Irad and his descendants didn't, and still don't have it. The only discipline overlap Irad line has tracks with Old Clan, as in Vicissitude haters - which in themselves are the verification that Vicissitude was a latter development rather than something Tzimisce started with.

>>96333976
Honestly I consider trying to track clan lineage by discipline spread to be a pseudoscience. Some bloodlines have shockingly few disciplines in common with their parent clan.

>>96334007
It's merely supplementary evidence in favour or against the claim.

As it stands, everything is against Irad origin claim.

>>96334042
I'm gonna be honest there's so much contradictory and implausible lore about Ennoia that I'm not even sure if Protean was her invention. I mean, claims of being siblings with Zapathasura, claims of being descended from Lilith, claims of creating Werewolves by fucking dogs, Road of the Beast claims she was Caine's lover...

I think it's good that there aren't any cut or dry answers, however Ennoia has so many different myths about her I'm not going to give her much weight in any speculation about the earliest nights.

>>96334075
Oh and, adding on to this, The Book of Nod does claim that Caine discovered Protean.

>>96333975
A this point that's either a sorcerer with high arcane and the path of fascinate or a changeling.

>>96334075
There's plenty of rubbish claims made by every clan. I'd go as far as to say that most of them are lies, grandstanding and faulty information.
Then there are absolute facts like Protean being the Gangrel discipline, and no other old clan having it.

>>96334075
Given the werewolf myths and how the clan as a whole has a love/hate relationship with garou, ennoia was definitely kinfolk. Vampires also think "lupines" are related to lilith somehow, so the ennoia/lilith mixed mythology is understandable. I have no fucking clue where the "sister of the ravnos ante" came from though.

>>96333976
>Protean was developed by Ennoia
Considering both the book of nod and revelations of the dark mother attribute protean to Caine, and even the irad myth goes with that, ennoia developing protean is probably gangrel cope.

>>96334162
>ennoia was definitely kinfolk
NTA, but I also believe this theory.

>>96334197
This. The Irad story might be bullshit, but if Caine knew Protean, he could've easily taught it to any of his childer. So Irad could've had Protean.

On a completely personal note, I like the idea that The Eldest was wrong from Day One. Vicissitude is his, not something he stole or was given.

>>96334128
It would be funnier if he was just a normal human.
Just a very likeable one. No magic, no sorcery, no path of whateverthefuck, no kinain, no kinfolk.
Plain and simple human who just happens to be a genuinely nice dude so everyone just lets him hang around.

>>96334197
>gangrel cope
In-setting Gangrel lore is literally dogshit, even by abysmal vampire lore standards. Common vampire wewuz, fundamental misunderstandings and lies slipped in by other clans because Gangrel's history keeping is shoddy even by illiterate, half-feral vagrant standards.

>controls an entire technocratic convention
>all of modern society runs on it
>has an entire planet (Autochtonia)
image having all of this and still not being a Celestine while some fucking dwarf planet gets to be one

>>96334261
We learn from the toj werewolf book that incarnae only get one chance to rank up to celestine, if you fail then you'll never become one even if you become functionally more powerful than most celestines.

>>96334290
>>96334261
Spirit ranks are a bit overinflated on the higher end, IMO. Celestines should be major celestial bodies and fundamental forces and phenomena. Totems, gods and other imaginary friends should be dropped down, with Incarna rank being a yearned aspiration, not a baseline any asswipe is entitled to.

>>96334332
>fundamental forces and phenomena
Pretty sure those get promoted to "Supernal", the rank of the Triat and Gaia(though the latter is contested by the ananasi).

>>96334332
in defense of Computer it was created by the collective mag- Science of the entirety of Iteration X

I'm sure the Dreamspeakers could also shit out an incarna if they got to spend decades working out the ritual

>>96334477
Didn't the syndicate also shit out an incarnae? The Almighty American Dollar. Werewolves can take it as a totem.

>Syndicate made a werewolf totem before the dreamspeakers did
>It's one of the best totems
Kek

>>96332704
Enchanted talisman that is a piece of string.
Normally I use it to strong a bow, but in a pinch I can just tie a rock to it for an impromptu flail, or even as a garotte.

>>96334242
That's a Mary Sue and a half. If being nice somehow immunized you from being ghouled/mauled/mindraped, you might as well call it the world of carebears or MLP

>>96334577
But he's got competition. It's up to you to decide whether or not Easy Credit is also Technocracy-made.
In the end though, you can't really have either as a pack totem without getting a lot of flak from the rest of the Garou Nation. How can you claim to be fighting for a return to balance and the natural order when your pack totem constantly demands that you generate profit for them like a good little capitalist?

>>96334816
>It's up to you to decide whether or not Easy Credit is also Technocracy-made.
Sounds technocratic as hell. The competition makes even more sense if they're siblings.
>How can you claim to be fighting for a return to balance and the natural order when your pack totem constantly demands that you generate profit...
Have you met a glasswalker in the last century? A glasswalker pack would where that totem like a badge of honor, they'd probably get renown for it in the tribe.

Who in the World of Darkness would do this, and for what purpose?
>>>/int/213884697

God, is it that hard to read some books before asking asinine questions? I feel like I am the asshole when I get angry inside as I hear very basic question.

>>96334865
It's not just a case of making more money, it's generating more profit. For a lot of Glass Walkers, all of the professional stuff that they do is in service to Gaia and a lot of their wealth gets reinvested in caerns, environmental schemes and the war against the Apocalypse. Easy Credit and O' Mighty Dolla' (outside of the US at least) demand ever-increasing profit, which seems a bit shitty, even for Glass Walkers. Even if it can include increased contributions to the cause, it still prioritises personal wealth over that.

https://gameinformer.com /exclusive-interview/2025/08/15/what-makes-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-a-bloodlines-game
>I ask creative director Alex Skidmore why the game is called Bloodlines 2 instead of something else, he thinks for a while, then starts his answer by saying, "It's what we were asked to do."
I was not prepared for that much honesty.
It's a pleasant surprise, of a sort.

>>96334942
with every day that passes the more obvious it becomes that TCR is just trying to survive in the septic tank paradox has put them in.

>>96334942
>"It's what we were asked to do."
I really want to see the video of this interview. I'd bet money that he had a thousand yard stare right before saying this.

>>96335005
>muh good studio
Everyone involved is a massive turd. Paradox, OP, nuWW, HSL, TCR. Anyone with a lick of talent and work ethics was used and thrown out.

>>96334904
Nephandic Primers to make you awaken into a paradigm that is handcrafted to make you as compatible with the Caul as possible

>>96332704
>what do you carry?
Ghouled Wasps because I really hate people.

>>96335086
Nosferat or gangrene?

>>96334592
They need to get more people.
I’d volunteer to get killed and re created by some weird spirits in a shaman ritual if that gave me magic powers.

>>96334942
On one hand, I admire their honesty and really, they were given a shit sandwich.
On the other hand, that will not matter to me if the game is shit and I will curse them when it comes out.

>>96335086
>piss off some Nosferatu
>he vomits out hundreds of potence 1 wasps
>they immediately cave my skull in

>>96335096
Worse, Ravnos.

>>96335122
Who needs Celerity?

>>96335071
hey man, i just said they're trying to survive paradox's bullshit. never said anything about them being good, or that it wasn't their own fault they got into this mess.

Are there any big changes on what Appearance covers between the various versions of the game? IIRC V20 had some rules about it acting as a dice pool cap on any first impression related rolls.

>>96330548
Have you ever seen anyone wanting to play WTF?
I've made 20+ StoryTeller Arcs with them so I'd say the money was worth
Also it was 327.80 for the whole collection from BagMan Games

>>96334723
Or just a comedy background character.
Not everything has to be super serious.

>>96335348
There's a varient rule somewhere that lets a player roll appearance at the start of a scene and add successes to every social roll afterwards. That one's the most realistic. As much as people try to pretend otherwise, appearance matters way more than just first impressions and people absolutely get suckered by the same pretty face YEARS after knowing them.

>>96335708
It needs to remain internally consistent. Jokes in otherwise serious settings only work when they follow the rules and trappings of the setting faithfully and manage to inject humor in spite of that.
Something like a ghouled mage kinfolk that has to juggle an annoying Garou uncle, his domitor, and his local chapter without letting any of the parties involved wise up and kill him. That can lead to fun slapstick.
Injecting exceptions to every splat with the justification of "le randumb funni XD" just makes for another boring tumblrite meme

>>96335749
That would actually be a decent implementation of Appearance. The problem with the the rules is how they feel like you need to go out of your way to roll that and most of the time it sounds kinda bullshit.

>>96335708
oWoD is pretty much allergic to normal humans doing anything other than being a powerful setting resource.

>>96332101
Depends on the Setting, there are a couple of groups who just document the existence of supernatural creatures but when you have people seeking out the supernatural they want to murder it for various reasons.

>>96335832
If I had to guess they got really tired of people their big bad monsters getting screwed over by Joe smho

>>96335900
That's honestly what makes Wod fun
6-10 people with shotguns in an un expected place can kill 95% of supernaturals
Add Holy water, silver and rocksalt to the shells for 98%

>>96336416
That's not even the funniest part. The vast majority of that remaining 2% is from normal humans with True Faith, because one of the blessings is unlimited reflexive dodges per turn.

Would a dog collar offer some protection however meager against attacks to the neck, or would it require something heavier and thicker?

>>96314198
Each game line attracts an audience that matches the protagonists.

>>96336768
Explains why nobody plays Mummy. You'd think Changeling and Wraith would be more popular, though.

>>96336817
I want to play mummy. And changeling. And wraith. And demon.
But my table is too afraid of STing and they only want Vampire and Werewolf. It took a titanic effort to convince them to play Mage only for half of them to ask if they could play a Garou instead.

>>96336817
Changeling had the otherkin fandom back then, the problem was that the rules been so terrible that even they didn't bought the later books and just used the ~lore~ to free roleplay

hench why they had to rework the entire power system with c20

>>96336869
So, if the Changeling-savvy anon is still here, I have to ask:
What's the recommended way to play Changeling, then?
C20 alone or C20 rules with First/Second edition lore?

>>96336709
>or would it require something heavier and thicker?
Anon, Jeans are thick enough to prevent human bites. Forget whatever you've seen in zombie movies, the undead are defeated by wearing anything on par with denim or leather.

>>96336909
>C20 rules with First/Second edition lore
This. C20 doesn't really have any lore. It came out too late in the WoD20 pipeline to have any significant supplements.

>>96336864
>only for half of them to ask if they could play a Garou instead
WTF? Why???

>>96337026
What about vampire fangs though?

>>96336817
All the Wraith fans killed themselves and went to Oblivion.

>>96337044
One couldn't wrap his head around the freemagic system.
The other two said they just prefer being able to shift into a monster, to which I suggested putting dots into things like Life to shapeshift or into Forces and Matter to make a power armor.
But then they asked what would be the point if they just want to be wolves anyway. After we decided to pause the chronicle, they asked me to run Wild Skies and I finally understood everything.
I need to find a better group.

>>96336817
>>96336869
Whaddabout Lost? What kind of fandom did it attract?

>>96337147
Slightly more sane tumblr users.