>self defence is le bad
>just let the monsters kill you and destroy himanity

>>713953690 (OP)
>and destroy himanity
That never happens. You can rewind time as many times as you want.

The game told you monsters aren't actually trying to attack you and you should try other methods of getting past them. Stop being a little bitch about it all these years later because you're still offended the game asked you to be nice

>>713953690 (OP)
Is this it?

>>713954142
Not him but if that’s the case then the game is gay as fuck lmao

>>713954142
Mansalughter is fine thanks to /v/ logic, einsteins over here.

>>713953690 (OP)
>"self defence is le bad"
The only time anything like this is ever said is after you kill the one monster in the Underground that WILL NOT kill you.

>>713954142
Many of the monsters are actually trying to attack and kill you, and almost all of them are willing to.

>>713954293
The majority of monsters don't even recognize you are a human.

>>713953690 (OP)
Sans does not judges your actions when you play for the first time, he asks you to to judge yourself instead. Anyway, your sole goal is to escape the cave, everything else is just a sidequest you can avoid if you don't care about those characters.

>>713954452
If they did they would call the Royal Guard to have you killed or do it themselves.

>>713954227
still can't believe I started another dumb tradition in these threads by a complete accident

i believe that kris will do the right thing
do you?

>>713953690 (OP)
The reason why "self defense is bad" is because you, as a small child, are leagues stronger than any and all monsters there.
It's like a child using a foam bat to attack an adult man and the man retaliates by shooting the child and claiming self defense.

>>713954739
you're in danger and still die even if they don't "mean" to kill you with their attacks.

>>713954739
Wrong. The monsters can and will kill you. They killed six other children. They are murderers, not innocent baby creatures.

>le bad

The game never penalizes you for killing monsters. You can beat the game and reach the credits just fine

>but then you can't see the pacifist ending!

By that logic you're also penalized for NOT killing everyone since not doing so bars you from seeing the genocide end

4chan needs to learn that all people who put forth these kinds of saccharine lovey-dovey morals in their games like Toby Fox are secretly abusive sadists. If the creator of Deltarune had his way with any of you, he would tie you up in a basement on 3 different drugs and torture you for weeks.

>>713954706
The right thing according to who?

>>713954862
susie

>>713954830
that's literally just Asgore. he's the one that killed all 6 of them

>>713955007
headcanon

>>713953690 (OP)
>Sans says self defense is fine, but urges you to do spare others simce you're practically a god and only gets asshurt if you kill his brother
>Can't get True Pacifist ending without beating the shit out Asgore amd Flowey with their being no way to ttalk your way out of the fight
>Can get True Pacifist by beating everyone into submission and/or humiliating them
>True Pacifist ending has Flowey admits you can't solve everything by beimg nice amd sometime fighting is inevitable
>Genocide Sans fight has him say that you're not even evil you just want to see what happens
Seems like the game thinks self defense is fine to me.

As for the destroy humanity thing that was never going to happen. Gerson says Asgore knew the moment he actually broke the barrier humans would kill every single last one of them.

>>713954706
Yes he's going to pump human babies into Noelle.

>>713953690 (OP)
It is bad when you've got the power to rewind time and do everything right.
In that scenario, doing anything BUT prevent the most amount of death would be immoral.

>>713954860
oh yes please

>>713955030
>implying

>>713953690 (OP)
They understand self defense, they just don't have to like you for it.
Like imagine if your dad tried to rob a store and he was shot dead in the process. You'd think the store owner is justified, but I'm sure some part of you is still thinking "that dude killed my dad".

>>713954820
>>713954830
Incorrect. You cannot die in the setting unless you choose to. That's a core part of the game. You re spawning at the save points is cannon.

>>713954549
The screencap that broke underfaggots. There's absolutely no justification to showing monsters mercy when they are explicitly humanity's enemy.

>self defence is le bad
nobody gives a shit if you kill one or two monsters- sans even calls it reasonable self defense. nobody in this thread has played the game

>>713954241
>the game is gay as fuck lmao
I mean... it is

>>713953690 (OP)
>self defence is bad
well shit, undertale is set in Britain then, makes sense since there IS royalty in it that like tea

>>713953690 (OP)
My first run before I even knew about pacisft and genocide were things, I killed everything except dogs.
I was disappointed there was no exclusive dog ending.

Post one monster who doesn't deserve to die.
>Pro tip: You can't

>the most fun content of the game is locked behind being as murderous as possible
>thats being penalized for killing according to /v/

>>713954859
>By that logic you're also penalized for NOT killing everyone since not doing so bars you from seeing the genocide end
That is not the same logic. You get penalized by being locked out of a truly happy ending for defending yourself against sapient beings who intend to maliciously and selfishly murder you.

>>713953690 (OP)
To me this has always been one of the most prominent examples of people here not actually playing games, even Asriel at the end of the game just explicitly says
>Yeah nigger none of this shit actually applies in the real world
It's literally just a simple puzzle game

>>713955123
not in the game, not canon

>>713955146
>unless you choose to
Getting killed over and over again until you want to die is equivalent to killing you. That's exactly what happened to every other human, who all had the same ability

>>713953690 (OP)
Monsters are evil and should be killed, I am a human and I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER side with monsters, aliens, demons or whatever other ugly abomination some retard wants me to side with EVER. Also fuck robots

>>713955541
The other humans didn't have enough determination to save

>>713955517
You can't be locked out of something that doesn't exist, anon

>>713953690 (OP)
this game is a litmus test for retards i think

the fact you can save and load is canonically part of the game, theres never a real risk for the player because you can just load a save, Flowey knows you can load and save, Sans is implied to know you can load and save

you always had all the power in your hands to never kill anyone, so either you suck ass at the game, or you chose to kill those people, bitch

>>713955597
wut

>>713954096
>Heh, actually your honor, I gave this 3 year old child a time machine that takes it back in time each time I slaughter it to give it a chance to survive, so im actually morally in the right and it needs to show ME mercy otherwise if it defends itself its a MURDERER.

>>713955541
>That's exactly what happened to every other human, who all had the same ability
Incorrect. As far as we know, Flowey was able to save and reload since his creation up until your arrival. He was created prior to any human arrivals during the determination experiments.

>>713954820
>>713954830
The monsters only kill you if you let them.
Like a child with a foam bat.

>>713955570
>fuck robots
That's the plan

>>713954549
>the Royal Guard

you mean those homos that stop fighting the moment you show a modicum of compassion?

>>713955597
But they did. Otherwise, Asgore would have had more a reaction when you tell him he killed you several times.

>>713955973
no he means the royal guard, which those two fags are part of

>>713955597
Yes they did, and they did. Both Toriel and Asgore imply that they've experienced humans resetting before.

>>713955518
everyone here loved this game. it was mostly off boarding redditors mad that we were not shitting on it because they couldn't down vote it on their precious website.

naturally such faggots never play video games except to argue about them and gain "upboats" anyway. to them a 4chan (you) is an upboat

>>713953690 (OP)
You didn't play the game

>>713955773
you are the kind of person who would blast a kindergarder with a .44 magnum after it kicked you and claim it was self-defense

>>713955837
>He was created prior to any human arrivals during the determination experiments.
the amalgamates became a thing not too long ago, which means flowey must have been created pretty recently

>>713954860
I'd agree if the weird and genocide routes weren't so indulgent

>>713956026
you mean the fish lady you ALSO befriend?

>>713955837
no, he was created BEFORE frisks arrival only you fucking secondary yellownigger

>Dess gets Asriel
>Susie WILL be revealed to have a crush on Ralsei during ch5 when everyone's fighting over her like she's a harem anime protaganist.

Sorry, lesbians AND chuds. In this world, femboys get the mean girls.

>>713956141
I think all the dogs are in it too

She would have solved Deltarune in 2 chapters.

>>713956251
why did kris do it, bros?

>>713956295
>She
Basado

>>713956295
He's too powerful for Deltarune

>>713956364
Toriel is pretty cute with glasses on.

>>713953690 (OP)
They're not out to destroy humanity. They just want out of the Underground that humanity sealed them in as victors of the war. Hell, being down there is safer for them, since the very fundamental nature of monsters are vulnerable to any malice from humans.

>>713954706
My tongue + Kris' anus

>>713956364
uhh source?

>>713956250
i think you are right

basically, you can befriend or flee from almost everyone in the game

>>713956364
Ralsei's imagination btw

>>713956141
The only way to spare her is to block her attacks, run away at the earliest opportunity, repeat this a few times until she collapses from heat exhaustion, and then pour water on her. She's just a more sympathetic version of the Lieutenant from Fallout 1.

>>713956471
t. susie

>>713956471
Me...

>>713955973
>The only way to get a pair of faggots to not murder a child is for the child to polish their armour until it gleams so brightly that they remove it because of the heat and they become so distracted with each other that they forget about murdering the child
What did Toby Fox mean by this?

>>713955353
Monsters are allowed self-defense, you are not because you are trespassing on their territory. By every law - Castle Doctrine, NAP, Bible, you are in the wrong.

>>713956540
you are not refuting the point, you can befriend damn near everyone in the game, or flee from em

>>713956596
>>713956659
blue Kris is the best

>>713954142
Papyrus is the only monster in the entire game with the self-restraint to end the fight when Frisk is too injured. Monster Kid in the genocide route only gets in the way. Those two are the only sympathetic monsters.

Power of Spamton should have been used for the weird route version of the fight

>>713956295
Would have jobbed hard in Deltarune, you mean? Monsters are no longer pushovers made of wet tissues in this game.

>>713955876
>Just dodge all of these bullets, kid, I'm not trying to kill you! :)

>>713956824
I agree
I think replacing that old version of Girl Next Door was the right move but I appreciate it very much for what it is

>>713956923
The game is piss easy except for 2 (two) boss fights. If you ever died you deserved it

There are so many variations to the neutral route it's ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDAx2M9NHKk

>>713956824
I personally prefer Deadringer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYF1nmIXWbw

>>713956923
If the bullets came at you slowly, being able to be reasonably dodged and you had the omnipotent power to to return to life whenever you died, then yes, you're letting yourself get killed.

>>713955742
(You) are in no danger at all, but Frisk is and most of the monsters don't know about Frisk's ability to save and load.

>>713953690 (OP)
You are immortal, though.

>>713957027
My favorite is king Mettaton with Sans and Papyrus as his managers just because it's the stupidest one

Genocide route is completely justified in Undertale. Total monster death

>>713956917
How do you know? Undyne was also physically strong in Undertale. There haven't been any fights in the light world yet.

>>713956732
Yes, you can spare them, but the lengths that you have to go to are only reasonable because (You) are in no danger. The monsters are ridiculously murderous.

>>713956824
the usage of don't forget is too climactic for the ch2 secret/ snowgrave boss
it makes it sound like penultimate/ final boss music
the world revolving in it sounds kino though

>>713955475

>>713955570
My plan is to fuck robots and also monsters, demons, aliens, etc.

>>713957064
But that is fanmade

>>713957108
>that neutral end where sans is the only boss monster left

>>713956982
>>713957075
>But (You) aren't in any danger!
Most of the monsters don't know that. Their entire society is built around wanting to commit genocide against humanity.

>>713957287
Power of Spamton has my favorite "freedom" segment and it isn't even in the game

>>713957173
>There haven't been any fights in the light world yet
Really now

>>713957108
That one is actually cool as shit, he turns Underground into cyberpunk dystopia.

I'm still puzzled Toby put in a hidden hard mode of the game and they try to "le morals" you throughout the whole journey of it. Seems a bit tonedeaf.

>>713957173
Does that mean her strength was not because of magic?

nerf the knight

>>713957368
I don't see how the monsters knowing or not knowing whether you're basically a god matters.
It's not self-defense when you aren't in any real danger, and you hold the power over the situation.
Obviously, the monsters aren't brainwashed enough if they're willing to spare you if you play nice for a bit.

>>713957287
Considering what we know about weird route now I think that climactic energy could fit. Spamton is the only proper resistance to weird route in all of the first half of the game and he comes in at the end of *the* chapter in which you decide to go through with it. As though whoever is in the dark with us is wailing because of what we've just done

>>713957078
Frisk is still not in danger, the world bends to its whim and reverts time automatically if death happens
Also, (You), are not in danger during any videogame

>>713957408
The guitar when Spamton's theme first comes in is like heroin

What is Mancountry?
Who is FRIEND?
Why are people thinking that some characters are from UT (like Sans), what evidence is there?
What's this about a pointed tail?
How much lore have I missed and how do I catch up?
I feel like I missed so much in my playthrough,

>>713957802
>Why are people thinking that some characters are from UT (like Sans), what evidence is there?

>>713957669
It is self defense when someone is trying to murder you, cuckold. If you don't understand this then your opinion isn't relevant.

The moral stance of Undertale isn't even about killing NPCs in video games, the characters get sad when you kill them with the intent of making them harder to kill if you're attached not because Toby demands you not defend yourself.

>>713957276
and Sans rightfully points this one, if you have the power to avoid killing, shouldnt you use it?

the monsters are people too, almost all of them can be befriendedand really the only reason most want to kill you is either by mistake or because they want to escape the underground, but you are never in danger

and you KNOW you are going to make everyones lives miserable if you kill em, so why do it?

the way the game is structured, is not a matter of self defense, is a matter of: are you psychopath or not?

>>713957529
Undyne is a glass cannon. She can suplex a boulder, but dies after being hit with a stick a few times. All monsters are made of dust and extremely fragile.

>>713957921
>but they're on a fight screen in a video game, so if anything happens when I kill them other than number going up, that is an ATTACK ON ME

>>713957943
Well she is fragile for human standards but is average for monsters and arguably the most powerful non-god monster in the genocide run

>>713957802

>>713957802
>What is Mancountry?
The Chapter 3 egg room, nobody knows what it represents
>Who is FRIEND?
Nobody knows
>What's this about a pointed tail?
It must not be followed.
>How much lore have I missed and how do I catch up?
Play the game again or read the wiki or stay in this thread

>>713957742
The same was true for the other human children. Asgore killed them again and again until they stopped loading, which allowed him to take their souls.

>>713957835
>Snowgrave color palette

Guys I'm suffering SOVL withdrawal. I don't know how I'm gonna make it to next year

>>713957802
>What is Mancountry?
A red herring
>Who is FRIEND?
A red herring
>Why are people thinking that some characters are from UT (like Sans), what evidence is there?
I have no idea how people can fall for such an obvious red herring
>What's this about a pointed tail?
Red herring
>How much lore have I missed and how do I catch up?
It's all red herrings, it doesn't matter

undertale was okay from what I remember when I played it. The look and feel of the game is great and professional but the rest was kinda meh. The story was kinda preachy and up it's own ass and the gameplay was okay

>>713958136
you must learn to [make]

>>713958136
Play the oldest game you have in your house immediately.

>>713958190
I live under a bridge

>>713957921
>because they want to escape the underground
And how do they escape the underground? By getting seven human souls and breaking the barrier. They already killed six human children repeatedly and Frisk would be number seven. After escaping, they want to try to commit genocide against humanity. Their entire society is built around this, despite the only problems with the underground being a lack of vitamin D and supposedly starting to run out of space.

>>713953690 (OP)
Based and correct take. People will argue till their blue in the face that that's not true but any unbiased observer would come to the same conclusion.

>>713958041
Sounds like they had a skill issue

>>713958041
I thought only Determination had Loading powers

>>713957368
Most of them don't even know Frisk is a human. They're just fucking around with magic.

>>713957802
in my opinion you understand Undertale lore like this:

- 85% of it is explained in a normal pacifist route
- 5% is explained in a neutral route or through specific interactions (for example you learn Flowey can save too if you kill toriel but load a save to spare her)
- 9% of it is explained in a genocide route, mainly stuff about chara, sans and flowey
- 1% can de discovered by autistically examining the game code and hacking it

there are some overlaps, for example genocide also explains flowey can save

that being said, that 1% of the plot you can discover by hacking, theres no overlap with any of the routes, its probably canon, i mean i dont think Gaster's name is ever mentioned in any route, but his existence doesnt contradict any of the plot, and that 1%, it has some interesting bits that seem to make a connection to Deltarune

>>713958136
>Guys I'm suffering SOVL withdrawal.
You just gotta [Get Stronger]

>>713958317
No, they all did. They just gave up after lots of attempts.

I just replayed chapter 2 for the first time since it released and i had forgotten how much of a horrid and degenerate creep of a character Spamton was. Everyone portraying him a goofball chungus made me forget that about him

>>713958404
We're supposed to show mercy to a guy that stole the souls of children?

>undertale thread
>deltatroon niggers IMMEDIATELY flood it
FUCK OFF TO YOUR DELETED THREADS

>>713955570
ALIEN FUCK OFF
NO MARCIANITO
NO DRACULA

>>713958323
If that was the case, then why don't they notice that the "monster" is constantly dodging their bullets and is getting increasingly injured whenever he gets hit?

>>713958357
i'm pretty sure gaster is mentioned by name as the former royal scientist before alphys

>>713955570
(((you))) aren't.

>>713958404
>assuming he wasn't first justice gave up on avenging the other dead children
>patience and perseverance gave up
Toby should had picked different traits desu

>>713958404
Isn't it implied by Flowey saying he can't save and load anymore that you/frisk is the first to have more determination?
So, the other kids wouldn't have more determination than flowey, and wouldn't be able to reload when they died.

>>713958357
His name is actually mentioned a few times in the fun values stuff, mainly by his followers and the sound test room

>>713958598
Flowey wasn't around for the other kids.

>>713958432
He stands out even more with there being nothing like him in 3&4. I think the wait after and regurgitation of Ch2 had given people "schizo boss" fatigue so spamton being unique was a good outcome

>>713958235
most, if not all were killed by Asgore, Asgore himself regrets everything he has done but feels like he has no option, its either do this act of cruelty or force everyone Underground to live without hope

but this discussion is pointless, because YOU KNOW theres a pacifist ending where everyone is happy, and the fact YOU KNOW things can be different is part of the plot

Sans himself says it during his fight, the thought of going back to the surface doesnt appeal to him anymore, because even if they did, they would just get back underground without knowledge of what happened

that 100% describes the people who do a genocide run after a pacifist run just to see what happens

you are trying to separate the game and the player, when both are part of the plot

>>713958598
Humans > Flowey > Monsters

>>713958598
yellowfags.....

No, the point of the game is that you are a hero. An ordinary person can't defeat monsters as a pacifist, only a true one in a million beacon of hope and truth can do so, and that's your character. You're not supposed to self insert you fucking retard, you aren't that kind.

>>713958642
I always thought it was fucking boring how people made their chapter 3 schizos be basically just Spamton again when Jevil and Spamton are actually very different from eachother

There is a LOT of retarded headcanon being passed around here as fact
>All that's ever confirmed is that Asgore probably knows about resets as a concept but not from where (and nothing says it was from the other humans)
>its hinted that Toriel might have encountered a resetting human but nothing suggests it as a pure fact or that every human could reset
>It's never said that any of the other fallen humans were kids, this is just a headcanon made from some vague now deleted tweets that just made a joke about Asgore being divorced
>Monsters are not physically weak despite what retards are saying, they're just vulnerable to the intention behind the attacks cause magic
>Living underground did make them miserable but they mostly just wanted to be free, they didn't care about humanity but were operating under the kill or be kill rule until you broke it

>>713958686
People that kill children deserve to die. I am the fucking scourge of God, his terrible swift sword AND JUSTICE WILL BE DONE TODAY.

>>713953690 (OP)
If you have the ability to keep trying literally forever until you can achieve an optimal result you have the obligation to do so.
The optimal result of course being genocide.

>>713954142
>The game told you monsters aren't actually trying to attack you
It still hurts me. Why am I the one forced to be compassionate and dodge, but they can keep spewing bullets at me under the pretext of "not really attacking"? Well I'm just swinging the knife, they could try dodging! I'm not the bad one here.

>>713958848
Undertale yellow tards are so brain dead.

>>713958228
i live in a hole and you don't see me making excuses

>>713958876
Bullet hells are part of how they communicate with you. It's like if you met someone who trying to have a normal conversation with them meant they got punched in the face randomly despite you just talking to them normally.

>>713958686
>force everyone Underground to live without hope
They have food, water, electricity, and so on. They only lack vitamin D (which could be synthesised by extracting lanolin from a sheep monster's wool and exposing it to UV light) and are supposedly running out of space (despite most of the underground being sparsely-populated).
(You) are in no danger, but most of the monsters don't know that. They're genocidal retards.

>>713958876
Because if you "die" you just reset to the latest save point.
If you didn't have that then yes killing them in self-defense is fine.

>>713958848
then you failed the psychopath test

how do you know what monster killed any of the kids? only Asgore is confirmed to have killed any, you reject a reality where everyone can be happy because of a misguided sense of justice

>>713958691
>>713958893
I stopped playing yellow when i got to the desert part but wasn't it explained that it was Flowey the one reloading for you?

>>713958956
If you're not willing to believe even the most basic of world building, why are you even pretending to debate? People like you are so full of shit

>>713958442
So far the best boss fight in the game, followed immediately by Roaring Knight.
>Soundtrack harkens back extremely heavily to Battle Against a True Hero, but this time being far more upbeat and optimistic on the whole
>Battle completely removes your ability to just cheese out by spamming consumables, forcing you to actually engage with the mechanics
>Patterns that are both unseen and permutations on old mechanics
>Lays out a huge chunk of lore to the character who is too dumb to have any use for it, but earnestly believes in her as a hero such that he still tells the entire story
>Explicitly tries to get her to use her dogshit healing magic again, going so far as to be distracted* by a healing bolt to encourage her to never give up on that attribute of being a hero
>Brings back an old holdout from Undertale and makes him badass, rather than just defanging him like most sequel callbacks tend to be
>Fight is challenging but it's also one you're expected to be able to clear, unlike Roaring Knight where you /can/ clear it but it's balanced entirely around extreme patience and memorization

>>713958990
Then I'd spare the rest, but I hope Assgore love Jesus, because he's about to meet him.

>>713958848
Based.

>>713958994
Undertale yellow is not canon, it's a poorly written fangame that literally just makes shit up. It's actually impossible for a lot of it to function

>>713954245
>manslaughter
no humans were hurt. animal cruelty at most

>>713959051
The game has you wander though lots of sparsely-populated places until you get to the capital city. It shows you that there is still space.

>>713959059
Literally no one blames you for killing only Asgore. He explicitly gives you no other option and everyone else recognizes that. It's still obviously not a good ending for them though, since they are still all stuck underground.

>>713958994
yellow is a shitty fangame why the fuck is anyone mentioning it in a canon lore discussion

>>713959120
Well of course but i mean i think they specifically explained that in the game.
However i don't know if they fucked it up at the end because, as i said, i never finished it

>>713959157
We're also told multiple times that there's issue with space, which trumps what you personally think about those tiny hallway rooms you go through. Not to mention you're pretending that all monsters can live in all environments. Like I said, if you choose to reject the basic world building because it goes against your narrative (which you are doing) then you're a retard not worth debating with

>>713959058
Gerson? would effortlessly solo the knight and the titan with one move

>>713958956
>They're genocidal retards.
they were decimated by humans and forced to live underground

i mean Mettaton is like the biggest or rather ONLY TV star in the entire underground, and yet the highest rating he ever got was during his boss fight, it was only around 10k viewers

that shows how few monsters there are and even then their living conditions are becoming cramped

>>713959058
Gerson is proof that if you ignore people who say Spamton is the best character and battle and just keep doing your own thing rather than trying to compete with it, you'll still create great content.

>>713959289
Tobuscus knows his fans don't know what they want

This game is like a test for retards.
The game only ever really acts like the player is an asshole is you go out of your way to do genocide no, sans getting pissed off that you killed his brother is not Toby Fox you are evil for playing videogames.
Autists just want a game that praises them constantly.

>>713958954
>Bullet hells are part of how they communicate with you
Well Toriel can make her bullets go away from me instead of targeting me. Maybe the rest should try communicating like that. My point is that almost no monster is putting an effort into "not punching you in the face" as you said.

>>713958968
This is like saying "its ok stealing from the rich because they have a lot of money". It's still stealing, its wrong. Even if I have infinite lives and can reload, they're still hurting me. Toriel can throw bullets away from the player, never hiting him. No other monster puts effort into not hitting the player.

>>713959059
ok, you cannot even spare Asgore, he destroys the mercy button because he doesnt feel like he deserves any mercy, and if you replay the neutral ending, he basically kills himself after you defeat him, even without flowey around, he gives up his soul so you can cross the barrier

>>713959058
Counterpoint:
>arrows flying in eight fucking directions

>>713959058
It's funny, Gerson has A LOT of unused attacks that make it pretty clear that Toby originally wanted him to be a proper super boss even harder than the knight. Makes sense that they eased up on it though for his actual fight since the point of it is to teach Susie a lesson and not actually 'win'.

>>713959382
Just click two arrow keys at the same time. It's not that hard

>>713959382
For me it's those two super fast up and down arrows when you're already dealing with the shells.

>>713959362
And you agree that killing asgore is the right thing to do right? And what's up with these monsters that let a child killer rule over them, who are these soldiers that follow his orders?

>>713959348
90% of monsters aren't aware you're human, dipshit. Get your basic lore right before arguing, Jesus fucking Christ you people are stupid, I swear.

>>713959406
I had less trouble with Undyne's direction switching arrows than that.

>>713953690 (OP)
I killed them all multiple times, they can have their chance now. From the infinite numbers of resets, I left them all alive just twice, just to see the neutral and pacifist endings. The rest of the infinite resets is just genocide after genocide.

>>713959341
To be fair you'd have to be even dumber than Papyrus to consider him an actual threat worthy of lethal self defense.
But yes, there's tons of neutral endings where it's effectively "welp, situation was fucked, can't blame you for self-defense"
People who get mad that getting the golden ending requires extra effort are being deliberately stupid though.

>>713959478
I do wish the direction switching arrows came back. I found them really fun

What if the Festival turns out to be the ceremony from Midsommar?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InRMXiwFPxE

>>713959348
You're literally not getting hurt. Frisk isn't like Kris, where they show they're affected, or have their own opinions. Frisk is effectively (you), and you don't feel a single thing from the bullets.
Therefore, the only consequence getting hit has is eventually dying, which has no bearing on anything because you can just reload.
Not even going to entertain the money analogy.

It's honestly pathetic how it's been a decade but the same retards are still making the same lore mistakes and going off the same retarded non canon headcanon# and fanons since year 1. Like shit, non rid you got smarter??? Or played the game???

>>713959484
You are wracked with a perverted sentimentality.

>>713959393
I hope chapters 5-7 are hard as hell

>>713959058
i vastly prefer Tenna's Fight, id go as far as to say its one of the best Boss fights ever

the character is great, the music is amazing, and its a great culmination of the minigame mechanic introduced in the chapter

Toby nailed it

>>713956295
>replaces Kris
Okay but it's fundamentally the same shit besides skipping chapter 3 until we know more about Kris working behind us
>solo
Nope. The worst boss fight Sweet Cap'n Cakes would stall her to death as she's only 1 person and they're 3 that have infinite milk

>>713959543
I do get a Silent Hill cult vibe about Hometown. I keep thinking the reason everyone hates Susie is because they all think she'll break/prevent the prophecy.

>>713959242
You're a retard that doesn't understand show vs tell because you want to make the psychopathic dindus that the monsters are seem more sympathetic. Kill yourself.

>>713959619
been jerking off to chara since day 1

>>713956295
>Shows up to hometown
>Flirts with Toriel
>cucks both sans and Kris

>>713959661
>WAAAAH I WANT THIS TO BE CANON TO JUSTIFY MY HEADCANON AND IM MAD ITS NOT!
Too bad, nigger. Go whine somewhere else.

>>713959263
>SIX GORILLION MONSTERS DEFINITELY DIED IN A WAR 1,000 YEARS AGO, THEREFORE BILLIONS OF HUMANS MUST DIE

>>713959660
Hometown is just Happy Town from the sound test, and the bunker is going to be the Meat Factory.

>>713959560
>erm you actually have to break your immersion and ignore the in game logic becasue actually you're just a person playing a video game

Wow what a shit argument. By this logic I shouldn't be punished for killing all of them becasue actually they're just characters in a video game.

>>713959738
Why don't you go back to plebbit where they will praise you for being filtered by "show vs tell"?

>>713955517
The happy ending is for the guys you want to kill though, how is them not getting it a punishment for (you) when you just leave.

>>713959661
As opposed to the person making shit up and going against what the game said to justify their weird hate boner against visor game characters???

I think one of the points of the game is that humans and monsters aren't that different from each other, they both just want to live and be free. The monsters resent the humans for being imprisoned underground, and want to do what they can to get out. It is understandable, but it does not make you, the player, wrong for trying to defend yourself. You have no obligation to be friends with someone trying to kill you.

>>713953690 (OP)
I had a friend complain about the exact same thing, and it is a valid point. Most of them aren't pulling any punches, so it's fair if you try to defend yourself eh? But going out of your way to attack some random monster that did nothing is another thing.
>>713955185
I mean, most humans would probably say the same if the situation was reversed.
>>713954452
I imagine those that attack you do, otherwise, why are they randomly attacking another monster?

>>713953690 (OP)
Reminder: this is a game made by an ideological subversive and should be treated like such. Its success a decade ago and continued influence to this very day only serves to prove that Jim was right.

>>713955518
anon it's just shitposter trying to farm (You). Persona 4 threads are almost at the same level as /dbs/ "are you guys even talking about the actual show/game?"

I just started this game today, am I really supposed to not kill any enemies and restart from a checkpoint if I take their health down too far?

>>713959459
personally, i dont, because it wont bring anybody back, because hes genuinely regretful for his actions, because he never took any pleasure in the act and only did it because he felt like he HAD to do it, because theres a better ending where nobody has to suffer

>And what's up with these monsters that let a child killer rule over them, who are these soldiers that follow his orders?

oh boy, and you think the president never killed any children when he orders bombs to be dropped in the middle east? i guess its ok to have a child killer leader when he only did it indirectly

>>713959808
Bro you're literally making shit up because 'uhh idk guys there's space in this one room of Waterfall and this hallway so clearly there can't be spacing issues...'

Like you're a literal retard. No go whine and shit yourself more

>>713959810
I'm not making anything up. The game shows lots of sparsely-populated areas. The game shows them having food, water, electricity, housing, business, and so on.

>>713959832
>Jim
Does this guy keep doing "THIS IS THE LAST STREAM BEFORE I DIE OF CANCER :(" streams?

>>713959771
Who cares if it's punishment or not
The only real punishment here is that inflicted on oneself by caring about the characters when one kills them

>>713959839
Yes.

>>713959839
you're supposed to play how you want and see how it goes instead of following a reddit walkthrough

>>713959740
you literally cannot die as long as you can load and save mongoloid, therefore asgore cannot kill anybody outside the barrier

its even questionable whether he could bring himself to kill all humans

>>713959771
Anon, you're not going to be punished irl regardless. Well outside people calling you retarded when you ignore the Lord to scream about how your head anons justify whatever you're whining about. No one actually cares if you do genocide. They're not real. It's a video game. Grow up.

>>713959872
>this one room of Waterfall and this hallway
You're literally blind. Kill yourself.

>>713959839
If you have somehow managed to avoid spoilers leave the thread and just play naturally.

>>713959882
>I-i-im not making shit up, I'm just ignoring what the game literally says because I don't like how these tiny rooms are set up :( :( :(
Wah wah wah

Toby "Irony poisons your story!" Fox everyone.

Toriel is drunk again...

>>713959845
So regretful murderers should just be released from prison? If somone killed somone close to you but then said "boo hoo I'm sowee" would you accept that? Would you think that they weren't deserving of punishment?

What evidence do we have that asgore wouldn't do the same thing again?

>>713959771
>>erm you actually have to break your immersion and ignore the in game logic becasue actually you're just a person playing a video game

holy shit, you people are ACTUALLY RETARDED

the FACT you can save is part of the plot you fucking moron

>>713959974
>BUT THIS ROOM LOOKS SO BIG!!!?

>>713959939
The other human children also had the ability to save and load, and yet you see their coffins and their souls. Asgore is only one soul away, and most of the monsters are excited to attempt genocide against humanity.

>>713959898
>>713959945
The game obviously acts like you're a bad person for doing it. Stop with these mental gymnastics.

>>713959889
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=lfhseUDFI04

>>713957835
this suppose to be him with gaster btw

>>713960052
He actually played the game and isn't just jerking off his retarded headcanon like you are, dipshit. What's even the point of this question? You know that these characters aren't real people and thus are written in certain ways?

>>713959771
The argument you made was that you were justified to kill the enemies in 'self-defense' because you were getting hurt. But you aren't getting hurt in a way that matters.
It's as if a kid started hitting you with a stick. Is it bothersome? Yes. Does it justify punting the little shit? No, because you have power over him. You would try to stop the kid from hurting you.

>>713960068
Could you remind me what happens if you try to do a pacifist route after doing a genocide route?

>>713960078
>This room
Literally every area before you get to the labs and the core is sparsely-populated.

>>713960028
I'd buy her a bottle, if you know what I mean.

>>713960104
Ur stupid mate

>>713960080
>The other human children also had the ability to save and load
Headcanon / fanon

>>713959939
He could grab a soul and go outside the barrier to hunt a few more souls down at literally any point. Instead he's completely passive and only killing the unlucky few that manage to fall down into their little kingdom.
No shit he'd pussy out.
>>713960080
Incorrect. If the previous humans could save/load they would not have lost.

>>713960127
Oh my fucking god. We're arguing within the bounds of the game's internal logic. Are you fucking retarded?

>>713960180
Damn nigger, you're really this fucking dumb. It's almost like...omg...it's a tiny game maker game that obviously wouldn't have fifty plus npcs in every room...whoa...

I swear, you retards are just as braindead now as you were a decade ago

>mfw I just narrowly defeated a LV1 eight-year-old and dispelled The Barrier using 7 human SOULS, and I see 8 adult humans in long robes and pointy hats standing at the cave's exit

>>713960131
No but if a grown ass man tried to kill me I'd kill him, and if it was later revealed that there was some way for me to not kill him or that he felt bed for trying to kill me I wouldn't care. Murderers don't deserve mercy.

>>713958837
Toriel isn't ambiguous at all. What she says clearly indicates that she "often remembers" the humans she has met that have fallen down in the same way she "remembers" Frisk after a True Pacifist run, there is no other way to read this but as a confirmation that most of the humans she has met since entering the Ruins had the ability to reset after meeting her and did so at least once.

>>713960239
And Asgore obviously isn't a child murder loving retard, which you know by the game's logic you dumb piece of shit. You can't have it both ways.

>>713960052
>So regretful murderers should just be released from prison?

we already judge the act of killing differently based on context, theres different degrees of murder, firest degree, second degree, self-defense is permitted, killing during a war is encouraged

at the end of the day they all end a person's life, but even based on our notions of justice, we judge all of these differently

>What evidence do we have that asgore wouldn't do the same thing again?

the fact hes not killing children in the true pacifist ending

you, its funny, you are practically spouting the same "kill or be killed" crap that the psychotic flower in game was saying

>>713959939
>you literally cannot die as long as you can load and save mongoloid
I can't save and load since I lost my save. What now? Did they finally kill me permanently? Hopefully the monsters are having fun in the overworld.

>>713959641
I mean as much as it bugs me to admit it, Toby hasn't had a stinker yet. UT was good and honestly, I enjoyed all of the DR chapters so far. He can still fuck it up obviously, but at this point, I definitely feel like I got my money's worth.

>>713960287
It's ok, by that time Asgore would have absorbed the 7 human souls and obtained infinite attack and defense

>>713960212
>>713960238
Asgore killed them again and again until they stopped loading.

Why did she do it?

>>713960406
Headcanon.

>>713960340
>we already judge the act of killing differently based on context, theres different degrees of murder, firest degree, second degree, self-defense is permitted, killing during a war is encouraged

Is killing children during war encouraged? My understanding is that Asgore personally killed those children, that would be first degree murder.

>>713960275
You'd be surprised how many people can't grasp necessary abstractions in video games. I blame modern slop that's all over-the-shoulder 3D bullshit hand-holding everyone and spelling out every background detail so that the casual player can remain "immersed"

Imagine if every movie had a scene of characters shitting and pissing. That's what modern games are doing, but for random notes thrown on the floor explaining that "I, markus the Irrelevent NPC die hiding my important yellow stash of med kits in my openable cubpard drawer..."

>>713960023
How is the screenshot irony?

>>713960314
It's drilled into you over and over that humans and monsters are not equal. One human, even a child is a lot stronger.
Frisk is special, because they have the determination to save and load.
The only times where one could consider a monster the equivalent of Frisk would be Undyne the Undying (who's full of determination), Sans (who cheats), and Asgore (who literally gives you no choice but to fight)
Any other encounter, you are literally kicking a child with a stick because you can't be bothered to do literally anything else (run away, talk it out)

>>713960478
Asgore killed them in self defense under castle doctrine.
good for nothing humans should've just to stopped breaking into his Home through the skylight

>>713960334
How so?
>>713960340
>the fact hes not killing children in the true pacifist ending
Oh so if you can see the future you know that he'll stop. Retard, I'm saying that if this was a guy you cam across would there be any evidence that he's not going to keep killing. We're arguing within the logic of the game world.

>>713960553
If a little kid breaks into my house and starts punching me I'm totally justified to kill the little fucker? Good to know.

It's unreal how far you guys are going to defend a baby killer.

>>713955007
Who the fuck is asgore? I better be safe and kill everyone.

>>713953690 (OP)
You just have to talk it out and forgive!

>>713960478
oh no, we just bomb the cities where the children live, and when thousands of them die, its ok because we didnt mean to right? plus the president didnt personally do it, some guy in a bomber did it, but hes not responsible either, because he was ordered to

so at the end of the day children die, but nobody is responsible

the circumstances surrounding asgore as well explained, (YOU) know theres a better ending possible, literally nothing can be gained from just killing the guy that didnt want to kill children in the first place

>>713960443
I would drag a magnet over his face

>>713960715
Literally everyone in this thread. Maybe there's a universe where the allies could have just talked it out with Hitler and he would feel bad! Wouldn't that be so much better?

>>713960406
literally no evidence

>>713960705
The moral failing falls on the one that trained and sent the child soldier to slit your throat, not on you for acting in defense of your life.

>>713960751
Once again we are breaking out of the internal logic of the game world.

Also I don't care that a

>>713960824
Whoops accidentally clicked post prematurely

Also I don't care that there's an ending where he lives, child murderer's deserve to die.

>People still don't understand that even without (You), killing a human is tantamount to killing an eldritch being for the monsters
Most of us would attempt to kill baby cthulu because you don't want that shit running around.

>>713960819
>Killing children is so based!
OK Moshe.

>>713960597
>Oh so if you can see the future you know that he'll stop. Retard, I'm saying that if this was a guy you cam across would there be any evidence that he's not going to keep killing. We're arguing within the logic of the game world.

yes you moron, the fact (YOU) know theres a good ending is part of the plot

and besides if Asgore WANTED to kill people he wouldve used any of the souls he already had to cross the barrier, kill 6 more people, get their souls, destroy the barrier and destroy humanity

he didnt

>>713960454
>>713960791
Cope more.

>>713960883
You can't fool me ni

>>713960893
they're just swinging harmless sticks at you bro

>>713960938
Then why does he try to kill (you)?

>>713960824
>>713960883

loading and saving, and the fact you know theres a good ending is part of the internal logic of the game world

Toriel literally sent all those children as assassins to kill Asgore for her.

>>713955570
Based.

>>713961012
because he feels like he has to, for the sake of his people, he already said he would kill any human that entered the underground, he already said he would break the barrier with their souls, waking back on that promise now, would destroy everyone's hopes and dreams

>>713953690 (OP)
the game doesnt punish you for self defense though? you get an ending for it. any result is just the logical causation of your actions

>>713960478
>My understanding is that Asgore personally killed those children
Fanon

>>713961025
That's retarded. It's not even implemented well, like in morrowind, it's just "hurr durr you're a person playing a video game, there's an ending where you can save the people that try to kill you isn't that better?"

>>713956141
>undertalefags considers this beautiful and sexy

>>713961048
based

>>713961130
See, if you retarded ass had actually played the game then you would know they go into a lot of detail about it and the origin of it. But you didn't and instead choose to go whine about shit that you made up and are mad isn't true instead.

Man you people are dumb

>>713960762
Toriel...

Anyone considered the monsters don’t have a right to live?
What have the monsters done for me?
Goatmommy can justifiably live because SEXO. Explain me why the others shouldn’t be destroyed for being ugly/gay o algo

>>713961167
That's correct.

>>713961167
yes

>>713961130
>it's just "hurr durr you're a person playing a video game,
you're playing a character that has those powers

>>713961195
>killing is bad unless you're a monster that hates humans because of a war five billion years ago

This game is gay, you're gay. There's no convincing you retards, I just hope you know that to an outsider looking in you sound like a psycho.

>>713961250
Papyrus feeds you spaghetti and is the only monster that will never kill you, not even accidentally.

>>713961012
Because you made it all they way to him, and because you're the last soul needed to free everyone.
He can't, in good conscience, let you go.
Greater good, noblesse oblige, whatever.
I personally think he wants you to kill him, and that's partly why he breaks the mercy.

>>713961130
the fact you are noticing saving and loading are part of the plot NOW tells me you either didnt play the game, or you are an idiot of the highest caliber who didnt notice these things while playing, and nothing i say will get through your dense skull

>>713961369
Gatekeeping outsiders from judging you is a sign that's there's something deeply wrong at your core.

>>713961258
>>713961260
>cope with off model

>>713961302
>waaaah why don't you accept my baseless headcanons that aren't actually part of the game and argue with me about them as if they're true!!!
lmao okay, faggot.

>>713961461
don't care

>>713954706
I get the feeling there won't be so I won't get my hopes up but I want an ending where you get complete control over Kris, something about a PC not letting me play the game annoys me and I want to mind break him for it

>>713961439
>Opinion is so retarded and offbase you could've only had it if you didn't engage with the material
>"WAAAAAH WHY ARE YOU DISCOUNTING MY OPINION ON THE MATERIAL"
You remind me of this entitled negress in my English 101 class more than a decade back who refused to fucking read anything.

>>713961439
nigga you dont understand the most basic aspects of the plot, either you didnt play the game or you are a retard, either way its not worth it to have a discussion with you

play the game, and this time, do so without subway surfers footage on the side

>>713954227
*Opens 500 Edge tabs*

>>713961369
I know it's part of the plot, I'm ignoring it becasue it is lazy and gay.

>I [headcanon]

>>713961439
Keeping outsiders out is the point of the gate. How would you like it if I went into threads about stuff you liked and started annoying everybody and calling you retarded while talking about ignorant nonsense?

>>713961497
Explain what is wrong with my analysis.

>>713955742
>Sans is implied to know you can load and save
Well it's a but more complicated than that. Sans has been studying some time fluctuations since before Frisk even fall in the underground, and when he sees you reset, he believes it was always you. But all the pre-Frisk fluctuations were from Flowey, which he doesn't realize, at least not onscreen.

>>713958990
>you care about children? heh, psychopath
the left really doesn't understand what they look like to normal people, ever

>>713961167
Her date sprite looks pretty fine

>>713961369
>"We Gorons live on a diet of rocks... And the most delicious and nutritious rocks around are found in the Dodongo's Cavern! But that seems like ancient history now... We've become such gourmets that we can't stand to eat rocks from anywhere else!"
What a retarded comic that directly contradicts information that is given in the game that it is about.

>>713961510
Just proved me right. She(?) is extremely ugly and undertranny are delusionals. Donr.

>>713960156
Chara remains in control, what happened, happened

shes basically just messing with you by allowing you to have a "happy ending" again

>>713961809
You aren't aware that SAVE and LOAD are canonically a thing. Which means you didn't actually play the game (because it's clearly explained there) which is why so many of your takes are braindead and make no sense with the established lore.

>>713961901
Unless if you delete two files.

>>713961758
>I'm ignoring it
And you expect anyone to engage with you???
God you're stupid

>>713961909
I explicitly told you that mine is the perspective of an outsider looking in. And you're still not explaining why I should show mercy to a child murderer.

>>713961758
>i purposefully ignored part of the story and now the plot makes no sense, how could this be happening to me?

>>713961818
im not even a leftist you obsessed psycho

you can see any and all endings you get from killing monsters, none are better than simply going pacifist

since killing people doesnt bring people back, its idiotic to reject a happy ending just because you cant have vengeance

>>713961996
Well you're all engaging with me soo...

And it doesn't really matter. I can save and reload fallout new vegas and not kill Cesar, but I always do, and I could probably sneak around the murderous bandits on the road but I don't becasue they deserve to die, the courier knowing that he can save and reload doesn't change that.

>>713962004
Because the game wouldn't even happen if you weren't there playing it.

>>713961901
Oh so the game rips the controller out of your hand to punish you and make you feel bad, got it.

>>713961909
>Flowey literally uses SAVEing and LOADing to perform bullshit attacks on you
>Has an entire speech about how he milked every possibility out of his life untilt he player came along, making him a perfect mirror to those who do the Genocide route
>Gets further reinforced by having a character explicitly state that they are the feeling you get when a number goes up in an RPG
>Somehow doesn't get this messaging reinforcing that when given the power to do the right thing, you should
I think he's a lost cause anon, just give up feeding him

>>713962004
play the fucking game you retard, the plot is presented via a gameplay

we might as well be explaining verbally what the graphics look like, thats not how it works

>>713953690 (OP)
Toby clearly isn't a fan of Humanity. Youth brings with it nativity and life doesn't give us a lot of room to be nice most of the time. Everyone will learn this lesson though with time.

>>713962218
Nigger I can explain the plot of any game I've played to you without you playing it. You're just mad becasue deep down you know I'm right.

>>713962253
naivety*

>>713953690 (OP)
troon game

I hope the Jews punish toby for his faggots pacifist views due to them somehow being antisemitism, they're all bloodthirsty genocidal maniacs

>>713962282
the plot of undertale can only be properly explained via gameplay, there will never be an Undertale book or Undertale movie because the story hinges on the fact its a game

if you are not going to engage with the story, im not going to engage with you anymore, eat shit

>>713962198
>Somehow this all justifies the monsters throwing things at Frisk that are capable of hurting him and not even caring about his wellbeing as much as he cares about them.
Yeah bro sure told me. They don't even know you can save or load, so they're just hurting you and not caring about it a bit. It just tells me a lot about their morality and personality, and if they actually deserve mercy.

>>713962351
Speakign of Jews all this stuff reminds me of Christians trying to justify God telling the Israelites to kill literal babies.

>>713962398
I'm trying to engage with the story, you just keep telling me I'm wrong and not explaining why.

>>713962398
le 2deep4u faggot

>>713953690 (OP)
man undertale is so dang good

Undertale fags are running away because they cannot stand up to my intellectual might. Deep down they know I'm right but then they would have to admit that their gay comfort character is essentially a Nazi supporter.

>>713961817
its left very vague how much he knows exactly, heck unlike flowey, he only knows things are different after each load game based on your expression

which is extra amusing because frisk's expression is always -_-

>>713959814
>I imagine those that attack you do, otherwise, why are they randomly attacking another monster?
wasn't there a book on the library that explicitly says that monsters sometimes communicate with one another by throwing magic bullets at each other?

>>713962637

>>713954142
Undyne literally tries impaling you like 100 times.
It’s only deserved in the genocide route, but still.

Neutral should have been properly developed.
Monsters should be equal to humans, where everything goes morally speaking.

>>713959834
if it was just a bait op i'd get it, but it feels like in both cases it's one or two autists that think the games legit are about "self defense bad" or "ugly means evil" and will not be swayed no matter how much of the game you shove in their face

>>713962805
cry about it nigga

>>713959641
Tenna is easily the best main story fight so far
The Secret bosses all mog him though

>>713962498
People have explained why you're wrong multiple times. You just throw a fit and says it doesn't matter.

>>713962253
Toby made humans the most powerful (natural) creatures in the world of Undertale lol, he has no problem with humans. Can't you look around and see every edgy piece of shit universe in games and movies that treat humans like trash and leftovers and understand that yourself? That's what misanthropy looks like.

>>713962398
Now I want to see an Undertale movie adaptation to see the curse Jack Black is Sans and have some random kid explain to the audience "Determination" when he finally dies and video games himself back to life.

>>713962448
Pest control. You would do worse if they had done to you what they did to God and his people, whether you accept that or not.

>>713962923
That's because they are both farming (You)s and have mental illness to certain degree.

>>713954706
No, despite how awkward the Susie/Noelle scenes were in Chapter 4 I still suspect Kris will not fuck the dragon and bow gracefully to forced yuri.

>>713963039
I'm not arguing this again, go justify baby killing elsewhere.

>>713962976
They literally haven't.

>>713963098
I don't have to justify anything lol, you have to justify your rebellion against God's perfect justice. Of course that is impossible, which is why you run.

>>713963014
Source? Those adult Asriel design are pretty good.

>>713956816
I think also Toriel doesn't kill you.

>>713963160
I don't have to justify anything, you have to justify what is self evidently evil, which is why you run.

>>713960776
>Wouldn't that be so much better?
unironically yes but of course reality sucks

>>713963097
but anon
krusie is yuri

>>713963168
https://x.com/uranaginasi/status/1939221728615632974?s=19

>>713962982
People like Toby clearly view strength as a negative and the flavor text writes that Human souls don't need kindness and empathy to exist. Though it's more likely he's being a hypocrite and is only writing this kind of stuff to disarm certain groups of people mentally, like, strength is only good when the people he likes or those he pities has it.

>>713953690 (OP)
nothing like gaming/posting deltarune at 3 am

>>713961130
I was with you until you casually mentioned you didn't play the game wtf.

>>713963283
Thank you.

You can't apply Undertale's logic to the real world because nothing in the real world has a soul. That's what Asriel means when he says: "there are a lot of Floweys out there". In our world, it really is eat or be eaten.

That's also Deltarune's theme. UT and DR are both idyllic worlds that serve as a temporary escape from the relentless real world.

>>713963160
>you have to justify your rebellion against God's perfect justice.
Nigger over here wants us to roleplay with him lmao

>>713963293
This artist really can't help himself in giving boys a pronounced chest can he? Not that I'm complaining

>>713963293
>People like Toby clearly view strength as a negative
Wrong, Toby even explains this to you explicitly. Reminder that Frisk is the strongest thing in the Underground even at LV 1, not even Asriel with six human souls and all the monster souls can defeat them. There is strength which is derived from LOVE, and strength which is derived from love. Undertale simply insists that love is stronger than LOVE, physical strength is always a secondary concern. This might very well be the entire point of the game depending on how you tie it into determination.
>Flavor text writes that Human souls don't need kindness and empathy to exist
Is that wrong? Do you think every single person in the world is kind and empathetic?

>>713961167
Please understand, they have autism.

The truth of undertale is that self-defense neutral ending is the best ending, and sans is a selfish misanthropic prick who only has fun when he is in complete control and everyone else acts at his whims, so all of his two-faced advice should be ignored.

>>713956340

>>713964023
I think everyone has the capacity to be kind and empathetic if they wanted to, yes. Doesn't mean I trust they will be.

This notion of love being the most powerful thing is such a tired Platitude. I mean love is not some pure thing that overcomes everything, so the idealistic preaching comes off as disarming to me. I don't like the idea of teaching people to try to love people as freely as he does in these games, it's a dangerous take.

>>713956340
>>713964338
>AI tracing
>Model Tracing

shit

>>713964378
>AI
That was posted in 2020.

>>713953690 (OP)
This isn't the issue with Undertale. The issue is that it expects you to replay the same fucking game twice to get the good ending (no, throwing in little "heh, I see what you're doing bro!" doesn't make it better) and genocide is actually fucking horrible as you just move left and right for 10 minutes while you one shot everything. Not good gameplay.

Also, Undertale's humor is just okay. Toby Fox hadn't really gotten good at it yet. Deltarune is leaps and bounds more funnier than Undertale was. Really, Deltarune is better than Undertale in almost everyway except atmosphere.

>>713964429
AI is older than that

>>713964453
Whatever lets you sleep at night

>>713953690 (OP)
schizo post incoming
>files are treated as timelines
>world of the game is destroyed in a genocide run
>game acknowledges the player's presence as an anomaly that causes the timelines of other worlds (games) to jump forward and backward arbitrarily
so what happens if i never install the game? would the game world still exist from my perspective as the game's "anomaly?"

>>713964439
Game is like 4 hours long and true pacifist has a lot of extra content and scenes that justify it. Anyways it's fine to take your neutral ending and leave, you're only supposed to go back if you want more.

>>713959058
*blocks your path*
>>713959289
true, but i hope he doesnt entirely give up on ever making a schizoboss on the level of spamton

Toriel is whoring again...

>>713964439
>Also, Undertale's humor is just okay. Toby Fox hadn't really gotten good at it yet. Deltarune is leaps and bounds more funnier than Undertale was. Really, Deltarune is better than Undertale in almost everyway except atmosphere.
Agreed, except in CH4 he included a fucking amogus reference.

>>713964482
>dogshit creator
>is a hack and a thief
>fanbase is now full of shitheads that promote shitty practices

not suprised, not even dissapointed, i'm extremely happy, actually.

Hey say the word pig, the "it's inspired by" phrase, do it , wear the lipstick pig

>>713964358
The capacity to be kind and empathetic maybe, but the text is talking about necessity. Obviously humans can exist without being kind or empathetic.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the notion of love's supremacy at all. It is a very Christian message, and the fruits of adhering to it are obvious. Of course if you don't believe in God it just seems like the work of foolish suckers, but there is a nobility to it which is undeniable.

>>713964625
>again
She never stopped.

>>713964682
I have no idea what you're talking about. Never heard of that artist before, I just thought it was funny that one anon thought Frisk was a girl in that image, but the artist said he was a boy.

>>713964513
>dude you don't have to complete the secret final boss and the actual final test of your skill and resolve the plot :)
Genocide is the extra content. It's literally meant to be the last thing you do before the game is deleted. The pacifist route is 100% intended for you to complete. Neutral is really just a fakeout ending.

>>713964629
I just find it weird it means amogus is canon within that world

>>713964860
that was hilarious, glad you posted it fren

>>713964690
Christianity splinting into a million different branches with wild interpretations has done a lot more harm than good in the World. So, no, I think them touting love's supremacy has been a detriment. I'm more a fan of stable systems. Love conquering all has made things too chaotic, too open and look at the result of it. The World is a mess. Not saying other faiths don't have their problems, but no, the whole Christian thing just sounds like an excuse to be complacent. Being complacent has never ended well.

As for the kind and empathy thing, I guess you're right, a lot of people have proven to be barely more than animals in my experience. Which is a shame, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage those things to at least try to act Human.

>>713964358
Loving others doesn't mean you are a pushover, it should be balanced by also loving yourself, you can either do things out of fear or you can act out of a love for things, even hatred that comes from a love for something can be fine, hatred based out of fear is weak, destructive and often cruel.

>>713958686
>but this discussion is pointless, because YOU KNOW theres a pacifist ending where everyone is happy, and the fact YOU KNOW things can be different is part of the plot
>You can only play the game if you know the entire meta plot before playing

sexual intercourse with chara

>>713954860
>4chan needs to learn
we're plenty disillusioned with humanity here, go preach to normalfags.

>>713965101
The disunity is mostly superficial. There is a reason why so many branches are under one label, and it is because they come from the same tree. If you look into the Bible with a sincere desire to find the truth, you will find it. Love has done my ancestors very well since time immemorial, so I personally am not in a rush to discount it over a modern rough patch, which is perhaps simply a misunderstanding of what is right born of ignorance.

>>713965101
Order that is born out of force is worthless, the order that arises from pure chaos is gold and lasts.

First playthrough, I killed every monster that attacked me (shouldn't have started combat, faggots)
Second playthrough, I went full pacifist
That seems like the canon way to play the game

>>713967263
Aren't you forgetting something?

>>713954860
>he would tie you up in a basement on 3 different drugs and torture you for weeks
don't threaten me with a good time

>>713953690 (OP)
idk if i should get deltarune now or wait until its on sale and buy something else in steam summer sale.

>>713967313
Genocide is clearly non-canon and just there so you can have at least one difficult fight in the game

>>713953690 (OP)
Isnt the entire plot of the game based on the idea that monsters are painfully weak individuals to the point that a human child with a toy knife can eviscerate all of them with relative ease.

>>713963204
Toriel avoids you, but she doesn't stop the fight, so if you're a retard, then you can run towards her attacks and get yourself killed, much to her horror.

>>713953690 (OP)
The game literally tells you that self-defense is okay. It says so directly in low-kill runs.

>>713967380
Given how hostile sans is to (You) in deltarune I'm thinking genocide is more canon than ever.

>>713967469
>prevents Toriel from going to the church dark world, fucking up whatever the knight's plans are for her
Seems more hostile to Kris to me.

>>713967469
Sans is extremely hostile to Frisk in Undertale's true pacifist route, too.
His behaviour in Deltarune is retarded if you think that it had anything to do with Undertale's genocide route.
>Moves to a small town
>Gets drunk with and fucks Toriel
>Who is Kris' adoptive mother
>Because Kris is (You)r vessel that neither of you asked for
>All to spite (You) because (You) had the ability to commit genocide if you wanted to in a different game entirely

>>713967850
In what way is Sans hostile to a pacifist Frisk?
All of his behavior in deltarune makes sense if you assume the motive is the troll the player, given the sheer amount of seething that has occurred from it.

>>713968023
During his hangout, he mentions that Toriel made him promise to not harm Frisk, and that if it wasn't for that, Frisk would be "dead where you stand".

>>713968023
but he's not directly trolling the player, he's being needlessly antagonistic to kris specifically
why would (you) care if he's fucking toriel? she's not your mother, she's kris'
why is he also a shit head to susie? he just moved into town the day before ch1, so he has no prior history with her, which means he's just being an ass to her either because she's with kris, or because he's just a douche and treats everyone he isn't planning on boning like that

>>713968215
He doesn't know Frisk and the player are two separate things at that point.

>>713953690 (OP)
Nobody judges you for doing the "neutral ending" which is self defence
You only get told youre a nigger if you go out of your way to grind areas until everyones dead, way longer than it would take to just move forward in the game

>>713963359
I love these losers.

>>713969180
Nah, he's just an asshole.

>>713953690 (OP)
>self defence is le bad
Just kill who you want then. From the perspective of YOU, it's just a game.

>>713953690 (OP)
This is, to be honest, the only game I know that has simply asked you not to hurt anyone. And your take about monsters necessarily destroying humanity is wrong.
>>713959814
There are several endings, just play the way you want it to be played.

>>713953690 (OP)
This is just like mother 3 capitalism is bad threads
Just as retarded

>>713957075
>tries to run you over with a forklift
>I'm le slow! You can step out of the way, you're letting yourself get killed
>NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T SHOOT ME, I WANTED TO KILL YOU BUT YOU COULD GET AWAY, IT'S NOT HECKING SELF DEFEN-ACK!!

>>713953690 (OP)
thjis thread is still here dam, I cant believe I fell asleep. Oh well xd