Taking over 10 years to develop a game and then firing everyone and completely reworking it seems like a sustainable business model.

westoids and their jewish masters are massively incompetent on every level
muttlandia has been in terminal decline the moment european immigrant stopped

>>717152507 (OP)
Well, they made the right call here. Their only mistake was not cancelling it sooner.
If the game has been in development for over a decade with nothing to show for it you as a developer should probably know there is a not insignificant chance the project is canned.

Maybe developers should actually work instead of wasting hundreds of millions over the course of a decade?

>>717152507 (OP)
To completely fail a publisher review after 10 years of development means the project must have been disastrous.
Like putrid dogshit.
These sharks don't care about quality they want RoI, so imagine what kind of piece of shit has to be so bad they aren't even willing to try and wrap it up for a half-baked release to recoup some costs

Are game studios just adult daycares these days or what?

>>717152507 (OP)
How do games keep taking a decade to make?

>>717152735
Yes and no. Yes if you're an ideas guy executive that can force the whole game to be remade on a whim, no if you're an actual game dev who needs to crunch constantly.

imagine spending 2 generations to make a game

What do they even do for 10 years and how do they get away with being paid without some corpo breathing down their neck.
Starting to think Bobby Kotick was right

Let BioShock die, for fuck's sake.

>>717152735
Depends on how many women are employed and how many of them are basically glorified middle managers or "social media engagement officers"

It seems completely across the board that Americans cannot just make a game now. everything is stuck in some kind of development hell, and IF it gets made, it's only after tons of help fixing it by outsider studios. Jesus, the AAA model is collapsing from within.

>>717152735
That has to be part of it. There's a lot of posts on here and elsewhere when big games got cancelled in the last few months and I should have saved some of it. Part of it is actually publishers firing everyone after projects are done so that NO ONE knows how to do anything so no one can claim to be a senior who needs to be paid more. Many of these practices are actually downstream of these things. Fresh out of uni devs are clueless nitwits who know nothing, don't even like gaming, and just want to game the system as much as possible (possibly knowing they're just cogs in the machine) and are young and naive enough to think that filling it with trannies to make their twitter friends happy won't affect sales.

>>717152507 (OP)
It's the AAA business model

>>717152810
A generation is at least 15 years long, retard. Generation means that someone goes from a newborn to having a child, which sets off the next generation.

>>717152798
Industry standard is only hiring contractors and not actual full employees so you can skimp on benefits. This turns development into a constant cycle of training new employees who are shitcanned after certain period of time to dodge laws about benefits.
Scope creep is another major problem, companies are beholden to stockholders who want to hear buzzwords and don't know and don't care about how unfeasible or nonsensical they might be.

>>717152990
console generation, you fucking retarded autismo

>>717152735
Pretty much. The industry is so totally consolidated and centralized where individual studios lack any control, direction or ambition. And this is encouraged by the big publishers as it's how they maintain control for their real products: mobile games, which is where most of the money is made. All the non-mobile gaming stuff is considered ancillary to their main business of introducing children to gacha gambling.

It will continue until more US states and Europe enact stronger laws regarding microtransactions, simulated gambling and gambling itself. This will happen soon, the hard porn bans in America and soft porn bans in Europe are the first step. The next step after ID Verification is to ban all minors under 21 from lootboxes and algorithmic-generated content, and to limit the amount of tokens someone can buy. Visa/Mastercard are already working on the latter because so much WoW money, Steam credit etc is used to deal drugs and avoid US sanctions.

The end is coming. We're still in the initial stages, but momentum will increase as more normies demand harder payment rules.

>>717152990
He's talking about console generations you fucking retarded smartass.

How did it fail our publisher review?!? We've had 1000 pajeets working on it for 10 years!

>>717152851
>Starting to think Bobby Kotick was right

It's super easy to complain about suits and publishers and producers, but they're always needed. Genuinely creative ideas guys like John Romero was handed a cheque and tens of millions and he pissed it away with poor management to create Daikatana.

That's with peopel who are genuinely sincere about making games. A lot of these AAA and now AAAA devs are idiots fresh out of high school who don't like gaming at all, and are hyper focused on their own little work and world, and couldn't even give a damn if the game ships or not.

you need suits to say:

1. Will this sell?
2. Does your plan make sense?
3. Why are you taking so god damn long?

I think concord was a wakeup call as I swear a bunch of projects were cancelled right after that with enough delay that i think it was specifically Concord. Microsoft looked at their own projects and say they had like 20 Concords of their own, and it's not just a problem localized just to Sony.

Reminder that Vampire Masquarade Bloodliens is like 10 years in development hell or something?

>>717152961
BioShock Infinite only shipped because a BioShock 2 guy worked on it.
>In January 2012, a little over a year before Infinite's release, Jordan Thomas, the creative director at 2K Marin — the studio that created BioShock 2 — joined Irrational, quickly helping to get Infinite back on track.
>Thomas and Levine decided multiplayer was impractical. Plus, the single-player mode still lacked a robust combat system. The modes were dropped and the teams were brought on to single-player production, where the combat experience could be applied.
>Many sources shared an enormous appreciation for Thomas' impact on Infinite. In the words of one employee, "Jordan was a revelation [...] No one worked harder. No one worked more hours. He treated everyone with respect."
>Sources say Thomas and Levine shared similar visions, and that Thomas helped to realize them. Thomas is described as someone who could take the many ideas and projects in progress and organize them into one vision. He could snap the studio out of the iterative cycle by creating a map toward realizing the ideas in Levine's head.
https://www.polygon.com/2014/3/6/5474722/why-did-irrational-close-bioshock-infinite/
This is why there are some references to BioShock 2 in Burial at Sea.

>>717152507 (OP)
Man, forget Half-Life 3 or Duke Nukem Forever, we're gonna see a lot more HL3-type delay where it will take a AAA game like a decade or two to finish from now. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, it's already happening (TES6, Beyond Good and Evil 2).

>>717153348
I don't even think they had done any work on TES 6 when they announced it

>>717153169
its time to hire 10,000 jeets!

>>717152507 (OP)
>Taking over 10 years to develop a game and then firing everyone
how do you trick the bossman for a whole decade that the project isn't going to be a failure, they should have been fired after 2-5 years at most

>>717153240
>>717152735
Yes, it looks like. Has anyone made some kind of excel spreadsheet to keep track of all these AAA bombs and cancellations?

The Black Panther game was in "development" and had a bunch of people attached to it for years, but they only opened a physical studio 3 months before the entire project was cancelled. So what were they doing? Apparently it was just conceptual work and going around in circles without any plans or commitments.

>>717152507 (OP)
i wish guns of icarus was still active :(

>>717152507 (OP)

If a game takes over 10 years to develop, it's a sign that the project has gone horribly, horribly wrong and you SHOULD fire everyone and start over. Game development should not take longer than 3-5 years max if the project is not a disaster.

>>717152735
internal expertise is pretty much just gone at this point. even a decade a go it had become the norm for senior leads to 35 year olds with one shipped game under their belt and things have only gotten worse from there.
when your team is getting laid off n 6 months regardless, half of the development is being handled by jeetsoft in mumbai, and you're on the 3rd restart of the project at what point do you just throw your arms up and cash the checks while you can?

It used to be an absurd joke that Duke Nukem Forever took over 10 years to make. Nowadays, left and right, you can see shitty AAA slop that takes a decade.

>>717153478
>nd you SHOULD fire everyone and start over.
games are taking 10 years to come out because they do this like three times now and then panic & try to rush out a AAA game in 2 years

>>717153479
>a go

>>717152507 (OP)
jesus christ scrap the retarded triple a shit, games shouldn't take this long and cost so much to make just for it to not be good

Not related to Bioshock but the industry in general: KSP 2 is dead after charging $50 in Early Access but the ex-KSP1 devs are already working on a superior successor game. This unquestionably is the fault of poor management practices at Take-Two and their developers underneath them, between the admin staff firing the competent mexicans replacing them with white women and the devs themselves refusing to admit that they lacked enough competent programmers to rebuild the game's physics engine. They are now attempting to outsource the game's future paid expansions to jeets and discovering that they can't do it. The game is now completely dead while the original devs literally bypass them because they aren't beholden to shareholders or soys.

It's not just a single factor, but multiple.

>>717152971
I think you mean AAAA chud

>>717152507 (OP)
I'll be playing this bioshock like game that's also a deep rpg instead.

Western studios let bean counters take over, so all the projects are doomed to fail.

The eternal bean counter will always say "statistically this project will be more profitable if we cancel it"
everyone only needs to listen once.

>>717153240
>>717152961
Also using UNREAL as the "industry standard" started around 2010 and is deeply connected to this. Publishers want to save money, so they fire everyone with any experience. But now no one knwos how the engine works so everyone gravitates towards Unreal so game devs don't know hwo to make games, they just know how to make Unreal now.

A total deprication of programming likely follows suit. No one knows anything and proper engine programers aren't hired. Unreal is Good Enough, and it's shipped and people don't seem to complain.

Meanwhile the Unreal Game is generic, looks generic, generic lighting, etc because it's mostly one of the defaults since no one knows how to use it in a deep manner, and it's a bloated ugly game that takes 10x the amount of power to run a game from 2014, yet looks worse.

An updated Fox Engine would be PERFECT for a new Silent Hill and MGS3 remake but instead it's UNREAL since no one from Konami knows how to use it. In-house engines die and Unreal replaces it. More homoginization.

>>717153752
Anon, BioShock always was Unreal slop.

>>717153474
>Has anyone made some kind of excel spreadsheet to keep track of all these AAA bombs and cancellations?
There's like a crazy lot of them these days. Some of them don't even have a title yet.
>Battlefield single player game by Marcus Lehto that got canceled by EA
>Blizzard's new RPG
>3-5 unnamed Sony live service games that got culled after Concord failed
And that's just some of the examples

>>717152996
Add to all of this that video games are giant artpieces essentially. Making video games is not like assembling incredibly complex IKEA furniture (no matter how much Ubisoft wants it to be) where you could conceivably get it done with contractors, no there needs to be artistic vision behind the whole thing.
You can't even scrap it for parts. Projects can easily turn into bottomless money pits, but there's fuck else to invest in, and if a game does become a hit you make out like bandit with 5 yachts and a shipbuilding company.

Getting paid to do shitty work for 10 years sounds based.

>>717153752
>>717152961
>>717153240
More and more everything happening in the industry right now feels like natural economic course corrections and punishment for 15 years of rot, and bad decisions. More blood needs to be let, and more teams and studios need to crumble, until all the bad actors who set things into motion have no power.

>>717153850
but they're gonna get fired and out of the job soon. time to learn a trade

>>717153792
I didn't mean Bioshock specifically, just a general statement on the industry. Most game studios had their in-house engines, and they've mostly abandoned them for Unreal. Halo had its own custom engine, but new devs don't know how to use it, so they move on to Unreal.

https://www.purexbox.com/news/2024/10/halo-dev-explains-decision-behind-ditching-its-old-game-engine
https://www.halopedia.org/Blam_engine

This was a 2 billion USD money sink...
I wish there was a good doco on the development of Workplace OS.

>>717152735
In 2022 (before the big layoffs really went into effect), I attended a panel at a conference, where a guy talked about he made sound effects at Riot. Now, was he the one guy employed at Riot that did all the sound effects for their games? No. Was he the one guy at Riot who did sound effects for League of Legends? No. Not at all. He did sound effects for character skins for League of Legends. You know, when a character has a new skin, there are sometimes new sound effect associated with that skin. But he wasn't the only one who did that. He was part of a team of four. Whose entire job was to create sound effects for League of Legends skins.

I think about that a lot. I think about it in relation to the industry as a whole. Four people doing little sound effects for a side, side, side portion of a video game. Then I imagine how the entire rest of the development team must look like.

The biggest problem of gamedev is that they refuse to pay engine developers a proper salary.
People who know prefer to go to better paid jobs, like anything related to banks.

>>717154023
They were probably going to be fired either way

>>717152961
can't imagine why anyone that could get another job would choose game dev as a career when it's standard practice to get fired if you do a good job and deliver on time and you have to deal with diversity hires doing nothing while auditing your work for wrongthink.

You get the devteam you pay for and if it's policy to fuck over anyone that's good at their job they're not interested.

Was it going to take place in rapture or the sky city? If so I hope they cancel it.

I want original settings.

No one had hopes for it anyways. Seems most people are under the impression that Bioshocks true successor is that game Levine is about to put out

>>717154331
Zion Levine is a washed-up hack.

Imagine if in any other industry it was normal to completely turn over the majority of your workhorse staff because they're by design expendable and temporary.
Imagine if ILM or other VFX studios just completely changed half their staff mid-project. Or in a non-creative position like an accounting branch in a company constantly teaching wave after wave of new replacement hires on how their books are set up and what gets categorized where.
It would be a fucking mess. Why is seemingly only games like this?

>>717154263
>PAY ENGINE DEVELOPERS WHAAT THEY'RE FUCKING WORTH

>>717154292
Rapture is stupid and purely magical wishful thinking, but you can sorta imagine it as a real thing. It'd be an insane engineering feet but you COULD make an under-water city. The sky city is 100% physically impossible and is just magical. That's why it doesn't stick.

>>717154537
This but unironically. Would be better than the race to the bottom that searching for people who only know Unity/Unreal and can be hired for pennies currently is.

>>717154371
Still producing something enough to make a trailer for. Which cant be said for this Bioshock team.

>>717154501
>It would be a fucking mess. Why is seemingly only games like this?

I imagine that by the late 00s, there was an abundance of people exiting college with CS degrees, starry eyed, wanting to work in video games- and willing to work cheap. Developers saw an infinite array of bodies they could throw at problems, and if one became too uppity, and asked for more money, they'd just cut them.

Now, egotistical people are a problem, don't get me wrong. But this evolved to the point of where they started firing basic, competent people, to replace with fresh grads, and H1-Bs.

>>717154660
It only took him 8 years. Being better than this clusterfuck is not really a merit for a guy who a decade ago was regarded as the master of the medium, or something like that.

>>717152693
>To completely fail a publisher review after 10 years of development means the project must have been disastrous.
>Like putrid dogshit.
After seeing the state of veilguard which got greenlit, I'm starting to think these refusals are less quality issues or incompletion, but actually if they hit the requisite esg score.

>>717152961
>>717153752
Man, repeat the scum bag cycle of throwing out devs one or two times and those people will seek a job in a different field. Can't imagine that this is going to be sustainable in the long run, and one major point of why the industry is hitting a wall.

>>717152632
The devs had shit to show for it, you idiot. The problem is the publishers got scared by the anti master race message the plot had, which was interpreted as being anti semetic.

>>717154618
If what previous anons said is true, many of these practices are downstream of a cost-cutting practice by bean counters.

>Fire everyone with experience
>then hire fresh out of uni
>new people do not know how to use the old engines
>no problem: use unreal
>experienced programmers aren't hired because you're using unreal
>new devs are likely just twitter addicts who don't care about games, can't program, can't code, can't draw, can't write, and are generally clueless
>they are the majority of the dev team and shoot down ideas not matching twitter politics and promote twitter promoted ideas
>thus: a mixture of top down and bottom up practices

It's easy to say "game devs are idiots" and let management off the hook, and easy to say the opposite. Both have a LOT to blame and both need to make adjustments.

>>717154274
Ding ding ding. They're not hiring winners, they're hiring desperate people who can't work elsewhere.

>>717153896
Correct. But I feel the course correction is more gonna be "we need to keep budgets lower and just hire Chinese devs instead". Putting shit out on budget, on time, and something coherently looking like the original ideas? Probably gonna be a big selling point.

>>717153556
I would think that DnF is especially the biggest waste of opportunity cost of these 10+ year devtime games though, spanning a period where video games were far more volatile but also faster to make. Starting in the late 90's but only coming out in 2011, ENTIRE fucking franchises came and went in that time - including Bungie-era Halo, and 7th gen consoles were quite close to wrapping up and Skyrim came out three months later. 3D Realms was really fucking about, but I believe Gearbox was always the owner's backup plan.

Still, if much of the industry is now taking the better of a decade to shit out one game without much to show for it, then there's a deeper problem. Not to mention we already effectively got some early access games that been or were in that state for over a decade, like Seven Days To Die and Star Citizen.

>>717152507 (OP)
Holy bald

>>717154263
For real honestly this. I don't know what your experiences are, but when I worked in gamedev I was given crunch weeks every week, no recognition for my work and made less than a Fedex driver. Then I moved to a big industrial company making their 3D schematics viewer, basically a program that makes a little factorio map of their machine process, and I'm paid twice as much with less than half the hours and stress.

For competent programmers there is NO reason to work in gamedev.

>>717154537
Yes. Whatever keeps devs from using UE5.

>>717155016
>I don't know what your experiences are
I can't write a single line of code, but I even I know that engine developers are important.

>>717154846
The founding devs escape with golden parachutes and new job offers. Often with founding a new studio, that even if it crashes and burns they will milk millions from investors, and they might win the lottery by having some idiot publisher buy them outright wholesale. Either way, they make millions of tens of millions.

The middle types, often get re-hired ANYWAYS despite perpetually sinking games because they are masters of grifting the HR system and know how to bullshit. This is fundamentally all they're good at though.

The lowest cogs just cycle through big companies mindlessly because they're desperate for work.

>>717154501
>Why is seemingly only games like this?
it's the logical end point of a system where the only thing that matters is the stock price and dividends to shareholders.
If you're not doing the cheapest, quickest solution that makes the line go up as much as possible right now as an executive you're not doing your job.

Paying for maintenance, building a skilled workforce or investing in the company is seen as idiotic since none of the C-suite will be there to reap the results. Actually delivering functioning products literally doesn't matter. You just have to play the stock market and secure investment

>>717152990
Console generations, you fucking retarded swamp biscuit

>>717152735
most jobs are ever since women were forced to enter the workforce

we are in a post sign-tapped world now. No doubt it was turbo-woke

>>717152961
It's more than that. They choose to die rather than give people what they want.

>>717154595
You COULD make an underwater city that would just be solid shells or something buried in the sea floor to help with the pressure. You absolutely couldn't build anything that's a bunch of clear domes and tunnels held together by rivets. Rapture is just as magical as Columbia. There aren't degrees of impossibility by definition.

>>717155021
>>717154263
The cost saving allure of Unreal 5 looks appealing to the bean counters. They don't play games, know nothing of programming, and paying a comparatively small fee for a "free" engine seems too good a deal to pass up. Yes, it's a forever tax on your game, but you also get to save on engine development. Now your team is full of people who know nothing about how to make an engine and can only work in Unreal environments.

>Whoops the game looks worse but has 15x the spec requirements of past games
>Whoops, there's still lag even if you have a modern GPU
>Whoops, lighting and shaders are one of the pre-set defaults making it look like everything else
>Whoops, the game isn't optimized since no one knows how to program or knows how to optimize (it's not a function within Unreal so it's basically wizardry for them)
>Whoops, half the assets in the game were bought in some store making the entire game look very generic
>customers notice the sloopification of the series even if they can't always articulate it

>>717152507 (OP)
Not defending them but
>Publisher review
I can only imagine what a bunch of out of touch Jewish shareholders had to say about a single player game with no service

>>717155307
woke and corpos go hand in hand

>>717154831
>After seeing the state of veilguard which got greenlit
You are obviously unaware of the troubled development that Veilguard had

>>717155016
The only reason to go into AAA dev nowadays would be either for the networking or just to learn to the ropes in a trial by fire for when you join/start an indie company. Unless you're hired by Nintendo, job security isn't a thing. The sword of Damocles is already falling as soon as you're hired.

>>717155469

>>717155649
and got greenlit. If even veilguard gets greenlit after everything it went through and its dogwater of a story, to me it seems like they're not cancelling them for quality but for investors.

>>717152632
nono thats the end goal. get job, do nothing, recieve salary. ezpz.

>>717154260
Any time you see those hundred+ or even thousand+ employee studios, this is why. It's also why you can find like 10 different "lead programmer"s in the credits, who manage a team of 50 people who in turn each manage a team of 80 people with 40 contract workers. I knew a concept artist who worked at Blizzard (lmao) and another who worked at Ubisoft in France and both said nothing they made, in the 2 or so games they've help shipped, actually made it into the game. The Blizzbro's only known public contribution was having a single piece included in one of the Star Craft 2 artbooks. These companies hire so many fucking people and do nothing with them then complain about the rising cost of development.

>>717152990
you're a brown indian mongoloid ESL.

>>717155841
All the trouble started after it was greenlight

>>717155469
In the current climate of how many turds have been coming out or been cancelled? I'm gonna side with the Publisher this time around. They're probably becoming more aware of the issues and problems which means they're starting to self-correct.

>>717155902
I honestly think tech companies over hire specifically so that they have what's effectively canon fodder for their quarterly earnings.
>We had our best year yet but we only increased our profit margin by 2.4%, compared to last year's 2.5%. It's be really good if we could at least match it.
>Fire the canon fodder, that should give as much as 2.7%
It'd explain why shortly after mass layoffs they just go back to hiring. Clearly it's not about downsizing or streamlining or anything of the sort.

>>717155841
It was greenlit before it was even a single-player game. There are articles detailing what happened with development why the fuck are you even trying to talk out of your ass when we know exactly what happened?

>>717153474
It spent four years in pre-production before execs got frustrated at the game never progressing into actual production and cancelling it.
https://boundingintocomics.com/video-games/eas-black-panther-reportedly-axed-due-to-lack-of-progress-would-have-featured-tchalla-killmonger-and-shuri-defending-wakanda-from-skrull-invasion/
Four fucking years.

>>717156423
because my "talking out of my ass" is pointing out these publishers and investors have not cared about quality for a long time, between concord and the new monster hunter and veilguard, its very obvious they don't mind low quality, I doubt they've learned their lesson, which makes me wonder what the actual issue was, and my first thought was esg initiatives from many of these companies biggest investors, can you guess who that might be?

>>717154263
>Hardware has become so complex
As opposed to the era of the PS1, PS2, Dreamcast?
The PS3 micro architecture that nobody wanted to deal with?

Everything is being developed for x86 systems, so what has gotten harder about game dev? The environment is unified now. Are we bitching about low level API calls in DirectX or Vulkan? Weren't devs clamoring for that if it is the case?

Other than the lack of quality, I think the market has changed:

1. "Gamers" are actually SHRINKING for the first time and it's why no one seems to be buying games on consoles anymore.
2. The youngest gen play Fortnite, or a handful of games, and then watch social media. They don't own consoles or PCs for the most part.
3. Steam and to a lesser extent consoles actually have better archives where in the past new console gen meant a clean sweep. So now it's way easier to play a game from 2012 or 2007 than ever. New games are literally competing with decades of old games.
4. New market is heavily internet and social media based, meaning it's VERY easy for a game to become a big interest, but also very easy for a game to slip past the radar.

In the past, i feel a total AAA turd released in 2002 or 2008 if it had a big budget for marketing would sell at least 1-2 million. Now a game can be completely ignored if there's no market for it.

>>717156350
Yeah and looks appetizing for potential investors too. There's also the act of employee-hoarding where a studio with more money than they know what to do with, hires extremely skilled people for the sole purpose of not letting them work elsewhere where they otherwise might create a competing game. Riot and Blizzard are TERRIBLE at this and part of the reason why so many talent artists work at Riot making artwork you'll never see. Company's happy because no competition, employee's happy because they're paid to do nothing, investor's happy because they see good talent tied to a project, consumer's none the wiser with the memory of a goldfish.

>>717152735
>>717152961
It's more or less that Big Companies as a whole are gigantic daycare systems. But this is due to monopolization and society refusing to buy anything else and supporting medium and smaller studios. Everyone keeps concentrating to a few things.

>>717156495
How much planning goes into the pre-production phase? Do they need every single thing written down, including the logistics and budget allocation and whatnot? I certainly expect that it would take a while to write everything down but 4 years seems like a lot.

>>717153232
>Reminder that Vampire Masquarade Bloodliens is like 10 years in development hell or something?
That one gonna be UE5 as well?

>>717156807
>>717156495
I think they were all just idiots, and spinning their wheels creating and then re-creating all the pre-production material.

>>717153479
The recent trend of just firing half of your devs after they make a sucessful game is just sad. You don't get teams that grow and work together to make better games anymore, stuff like the Bungie devs that worked on Halo 1, 2 and 3. Instead its half outsourced jeets and half people who know they'll soon be out of a job and don't give a fuck, like you said. There's just almost no hope for anything good to come out of an arrangement like this

>>717152735
digital serfdom

>>717156527
>which makes me wonder what the actual issue was
Did you even read my post? We know what fucking happened because developers leaked everything to game journalists who then wrote articles about what happened. Google it yourself retard

>>717153752
>Also using UNREAL as the "industry standard" started around 2010 and is deeply connected to this. Publishers want to save money, so they fire everyone with any experience. But now no one knwos how the engine works so everyone gravitates towards Unreal so game devs don't know hwo to make games, they just know how to make Unreal now.
This is an issue because everything is up to "Universal Standards" than allowing everyone to do what they wish. Sadly UE and Unity are huge cost cutting at the expense of individuality and variety of designs. Just look at how UI's look absolutely devoid of life and lack themes but look exactly the same, or how all UE5 games look the same due to the fact it's the same lighting, same quixelbridge look. Either way, this only makes sense for studios that lack money and resources. But for big AAA ones there is hardly much excuses.

I hate to say this, but unless we have an Open Source standard for a Game Engine that can do a variety of things like a Blender/Redot we are going to be in this mess for a decade.

>>717153474
>>717152735
I know it sounds like a schizo pol conspiracy, but I do believe the economy is fake. Like, it's way bigger than "jewish daycare for women".

Hundreds of million of dollars down the drain for cancelled projects, marketing budgets getting bigger and bigger, staff getting bloated and bloated.
Where is all of this money coming from? where is it going? sure esg/dei, but someone HAS to pay to keep the light on, right? the investors should be mad and want better roi, no?

I don't get it. I hear stories about how workers do all their workers in 2 hours and fuck around for 6 but it doesn't make sense. Why aren't companies firing 80% of the workers then to save costs?
It all feels like a giant welfare system because there are no real jobs.

And yet, zoomers appear to be super stressed about their work. You go on twitter and they describe like if they were plantation slaves, super stressed, tired.

I don't get it.

>>717155096
What's the source to that image? Actually crazy.

>>717155016
>For competent programmers there is NO reason to work in gamedev.
There is one reason - you want to make video games. That's it. No other reason, the pay is garbage compared to other options. Oh, except juniors. Juniors are completely fucked in recent years and most of them will become burger flippers.

>>717154064
Basically this. It's the path of least resistance.

>>717154831
>After seeing the state of veilguard which got greenlit
The only thing wrong with that game was shitty writing in some places and absolutely awful in others (the infamous Taash character). The game was just a mid arpg otherwise. It's still a passable game otherwise, hardly in a 'dogshit' state.

>>717152735
>adult daycares
Unironically adult female teachers (non math/phy ones)

>>717156885
>Overly emotional response to a benign question
Seems you really dislike this avenue of thought, huh?

>>717154263
>>717155016
This is why you work in AA or Indies.

>>717156831
>That one gonna be UE5 as well?

Of COURSE. Could it be anything else?

>>717152851
>What do they even do for 10 years and how do they get away with being paid without some corpo breathing down their neck.
Could be they've had various people with wildly different demands breathing down their neck.

>>717154260
Great post, it really put things in perspective. I also see this stuff in government jobs where they waste tax money on worthless positions and projects

>>717152990
>A generation is at least 15 years long, retard.
2019 was 16 years ago.

>>717156701
doesn't help most new games are creatively bankrupt and use unreal engine which demands too much for too little. And everythings getting more expensive and all the devs are out of touch with most of their customerbase

>>717156945
>i dont understand, i see clickbait headlines about video games being cancelled but the economy hasn't collapsed yet what's going on!?
you can't be serious

>>717157004
Oh let me guess im part of the conspiracy too? Low iq subhuman nigger, impossible to have an actual discussion with knuckle-dragging retards like you around

>>717156831
of course!

>>717152507 (OP)
>seems like a sustainable business model
Yes? It's called "money laundering"

>>717152990

Well, *I* love you, anon

>>717156701
Even Fortnite player numbers are shrinking. Roblox is where it's at now for zoomers and alpha generations.

>>717157134
>this game was cancelled but poorly made games like veilguard, concord and the newest iteration of monster hunter and dragons dogma get greenlit
>games have had a push it out and patch it later mindset for over a decade
>suddenly the newest bioshock isn't good enough and gets cancelled outright
>curious
>one anon alleges in thread that there was an anti-master race plotline in the game which investors didn't like
>other games get pushed while broken for years
>did companies finally learn their lesson or is something else going on?
>FUCK YOU, YOU ARE RETARDED NIGGER!
>STOP ASKING THESE QUESTIONS
>YOU THINK IM INVOLVED?
>BLOODY BITCH BASTARD
Right, right. So why are you so emotionally invested in this?

>>717156701
The problem is that we have an oversupply of good games which is why demand for new games are down. Every niche and genre is being satisfied and there's a king of every genre that's just dominating so hard that new entries have no chance. People dont want new games that just are good anymore, they're looking for masterpieces which is quite impossible to create even in optimal developer conditions decades ago. Also forever games with infinite content like fortnite, minecraft, roblox and instant dopamine apps like tiktok is just eating up timeshare of gamers. Why bother moving to anything else when you've invested hundreds of hours into something you're comfortable with?

The only solution right now is to cut and cancel games and to focus on what you're doing right.

>>717156945
You'll get it when you actually hit 18 yourself and join the workforce.

>>717157085
That's not what I said.

>>717157307
>wtf happened with veilguard's development!?
>no i will NOT read the articles that explain what happened with it

>>717157369
I am 35 and work as a small business.

>>717157372
Are you asking why you see headlines when something goes wrong but not when everything goes right?

>>717156945
>Where is all of this money coming from?

Depends on the company. Amazon and Microsoft are mega-huge and make so much money these are blips on the radar. Amazon has this like 2 billion spent on their gaming division and a lot of it has gone nowhere.

Sony is a smaller company, and 400 million blown away on Concord "hurts", but no one is thinking that they're in any risk of insolvency. Half of Sony's revenues is Sony Financial, and a lot of that is LIFE INSURANCE. Sony is successfully diversified in many fields so that it can stomach these hits.

Ubisoft is in some of the worst shape, is a "joke" that everyone rags on but then you look at their financials and they're still making hundreds of millions of dollars. Also they have a whopping 18,000 employees because they get funding from Quebec and France to be a massive jobs program.

Ubisoft wil never go outright bankrupt, but they're probably gonna be bought out by someone who then restructures the company. The French jobs program element is a tricky situation to navigate.

>>717157391
>you should trust jason schrier
>you should trust polygon
>you should trust gaming journalists
Look, I wasn't going to call you a shill, but you're not helping your point with this line of reasoning. You should honestly keep to the anger angle.

>>717152593
Lmao those upcoming indian games look embarrassing, try again

>>717157486
Sony Financial in comparison has 13,500 employees which makes way more sense.

>>717157445
No, I am asking why they pay for people to do nothing.

>>717157506
cool so when does EA sue them for libel? considering they wrote an article detailing things they never actually did

>>717156835
you hate outsourcing and contracting when it's the exact solution that's preventing studios from firing their core staff nowadays because they can easily ramp down after a crunch period of developing the game after the game is shipped by closing up the outsourcing instead of firing half the staff due to no longer needing that many people to sit around for the preproduction of the next game.

>>717157432
Then you should absolutely know how corporate financing works or how uneven work loads can be sometimes. There's really no excuse for not having at least a layman's understanding of how the modern economy works at that age.

>>717152593
Yids cost too much money and they add absolutely nothing, hell, if anything they make the product worse, see Neil druckmann tanking naughty dog by himself
>>717152735
Most modern jobs are fake jobs. Reality is economy is fucking dishonest, most women and immigrant jobs are memes that could be done by ai and a few whites but govt refuse to because it would send a lot of people to survive in the streets, they could pull just gibs AND reduce housing cost so people wouldn't starve, but also wouldn't be a burden and on top of that they would use their spare money to purchase your products

>>717157545
This very thread has some answers:
>>717156764

>>717157545
Well you see, sometimes people on the internet like to make things up for attention. So when somebody tells you "yeah i get paid 100k a year to sit around and do nothing for 8 hours" you should consider that they're just making things up.

>>717157565
guess we'll find out, huh? Hopefully you can keep that anger in check till then lil buddy

>>717153232
Suits are fucking retarded and supported a society where consumers would be poor, single and childless so now they are expecting products to magically sell to people that are poor or that weren't even born.

>>717157307
Dragon's Dogma is fine, it's basically vanilla DD1, it's just a crapcom game and they can't into optimization anymore. Anons got suckered into thinking DD:DA was a huge spectacular amazing game because they watched some jewtoober's video essay or they got scammed by anons talking about how awesome it was when it was always a niche game.

>>717156701
I know that people will call me a retarded faggot but the western AAA market being in the shitter and for years and mobile games stopping being shitty png collectors caused that most of players unironically moved to gacha and mobile gaming

>>717157673
We know they are not lying about it, when twitter fired 80% of their staff and nothing changed.

>>717157727
It helps mobile games try to give you good designs for once

>>717157746
>>717157727
And they are free, and can be played on a phone.

>>717156701
>>717157312
I think both of you are right to an extent. But I would like to add the shift that has been happening on top of it.
1.AAA industries hardly take risk because of the whole argument of if it will have ROI
2. AA is nonexistent because not many realize AA is hugely experimental and has some slight jank and lack of smoothness of AAA but it's a shorter experience with high replay value. So the market goes to what is safe but complain about a lack of new games.
3. Gamers are shrinking on Console, but GROWING on PC
4. Growth of casual gamers is accelerating thanks to MMO-Lite Gacha games. Which they are built on Social Media itself.
5. The problem with Game genres is now there is oversaturation but not enough variety in the sense of trying to innovate in the genres or combining of different genres that can create something unique. Think of games like Minecraft, they are like 3-4 different genres into one. I disagree games need to become masterpieces but they need to be more Gameplay focused than visuals focused with high production values and advertisements. It needs to separate itself from the pack. It needs Style and an identity.

>>717157705
This. If you have a 9800X3D or 9950X3D and 32 or 64 gigs of RAM the game goes from 2/10 to 7/10. With a Bitterblack Isle expansion it will bump up to 9/10.

>>717157727
Sorry but I'm still not gonna play your shitty gacha game

>>717157742
>noticable increase in downtime
>went from finally being profitable before being sold to being a financial black hole
>nothing changed

>>717157784
It's pretty much why you see Nintendo marketers constantly shaming people calling them poorfags but reality is kids can just be f2p to one of these games or pay some Roblox pack every 3 months.

>>717156701
This, there's a bunch of smaller games coming out every month now, back then a game like Bioshock would be a big event, and advertised in magazines.

But there's no fucking point anymore, magazines died, zoomers just play stuff like fortnite, Minecraft, roblox, basically anything they can run on a tablet or phone is fair game.

It doesn't help that western AAA development is such a shit shit you can spend ten years making a game, then cancel it before you even release a demo

>>717157727
the western AAA market makes way more money than any other market right now, we're currently in a transitional period where video games are shifting models to a new one with new consumers tastes which is why we're seeing troubles right now but AAA western games still eclipse everything else in the gaming industry.

>>717157861
Also, birthrates. By now millennials should have had 2 or 3 kids to continue buying games but alas, a lot are childless and most zoomers will be childless

>>717156701
>>717157861
Besides old games, steam also helps you discover smaller games through word of mouth.

>>717157727
Western AAA market still makes tons of money sadly. I mean you think any 3rd worlder like yourself is not going to drop money for GTA6? There is a reason why the Chinese market can not do anything but copy and paste Genshin Impact UI every game, and keep selling the production values as something new. Because to China Mobile Market is their version of the AAA. While PC/Console is for West.

>>717157814
Sorry but people seething about the country games are made in are a minority

>>717157134

NTA but take a chill pill :)

>>717157791
>but they need to be more Gameplay focused than visuals focused with high production values and advertisements. It needs to separate itself from the pack. It needs Style and an identity.

So way back in 2011 this is what Dark Souls did. The style of game and development evolved out of From's past techniques where they never were about big audio visual spectacles like Square did, but making modest rpgs with a focus on gameplay and exploration. The visuals and art style stuck out and it's this gameplay focused game with exploration and no god damn music outside of boss fights. Wow, that's "weird" as hell.

From could adapt in ways Square couldn't, because Square's games were AAA and you have to go AAAA onwards to make that on a PS4 or PS5, and the budgets are just too damn high for their kind of production values.

From can say "this is an apocalypse, and everyone sounds british" to explain why they have only a handful of NPCs, there's no Japanese voice acting.

This kind of smart cost cutting seems ignored. I half think Square especially should get some fresh ideas, publish cheaper A and AA model games, and run with it.

Make some game set in an apocalyptic frontier zone, re-use assets from bombs like FF16, Foresaken, and have some passionate guy have some fun.

Make a first person dungeon crawler! A pokemon clone. Fucking anything! But they make the most uninspired "we need to copy open world ubisoft" shit that makes me lose interest. I love FF7, but the crap they pour over it makes me not wanna play it.

>>717157175

Is that Joker Yui?

>>717158161
square enix is a poor example to use because they have a massive rich library of mid tier A and AA model games in the past 20 years which mostly flopped which is why they had to cancel development on most of them recently.

Failing publisher review is hilarious
Alien Colonial marines, Concord and Half the shit that Squeenix churns out passed.
How shit do you have to be to fail?

>>717157312
Should we have WW3 so billions will die and there'll be fewer games?

>>717157791
What do you mean with mmo lite gacha? serious question

>>717156945
>workers do all their workers
PHILLIP BANKS

>>717157486
Ubisoft is quite literally funded by government, without its help the company would instantly close

>spend 90% of a games budget to make 90% of a game
>the game is only expected to make 4x its budget instead of the industry preferred 10x
>trash the entire game, fire everyone, spend 100% of a games budget to make 100% of a game
>it still only sells 4x a normal games budget, which is now only 2x this games budget because you restarted
We did it patrick, we saved the shareholders!

>>717152693
Wanna know what would give great ROI? Having a tight, highly efficient team that quickly completes a project that resonates with gamers and sells gangbusters.

Modern AAA is a farce, plain and simple. The "businessmen" who are in charge are charlatans who don't know anything about anything yet view themselves as geniuses.

>>717158393
>Money burning in the background

>>717152806
the only studios crunching are the ones releasing games
these 10 year long vaporware turds aren't doing any work

>>717153474
It's funny how much money Bandai burned on that video game. Did they learn anything from it bombing?

>>717157818

Generally works fine for me. Still glad Musk bought it and allowed back numerous accounts.

>>717158212
its been a rough ten years

>>717157931
Also there's GOG for games, especially old ones

>>717158519
They even bought the god damn studio, too, which makes me think that these are intentionally created as "bait" for a big publisher to buy up from the get go. The statements at the time by Bandai Europe is that they were trying to tap into the western market and expand their global reach. So the answer is more Unreal Ubi-slop no one asked for? Funny.

The only people who benefitted financially from it are the two founders, everyone else ended up holding the bag. Officially the studio is not closed, but Bandai is scrambling to give them something to do and may have to close them down anyways.

>>717158676
They could have hired someone off /v/ for peanuts, and asked them if this was a good idea. They could have saved so much money, lmao.

>>717158601

Yui remains cute tho

https://youtu.be/yGDmDR1wi2c?si=nOCenCu-zZmnCjhY

>>717158676
(Also ignore that Anya is cuter than her game character. pure coincidence)

indie games
>short dev time
>fun original ideas
>very cheap

gacha
>2-3 years dev time?
>implying gameplay
>f2p and unlimited cosmetics for whales

AAA
>takes a whole console generation to make
>same dumbed down gameplay as always
>expensive and unlimited cosmetics for whales

>>717158519
>>717158676
I remember hearing about this and thinking "Wait I never even heard of this" apparently nobody did. And Bamco spent a shitload of money on it too? where the fuck did it go?

>>717153232
Concord was pushed into a spiral of retardation by the suits at Sony, they thought the game sonehow was going to become the next Star Wars and poured millions and millions of shekels on it

>>717158393
If it was this simple, they would just sprint over the finish line and release it.

The truth is that the projects that they're creating are so bad that the damage to the brand would outweigh the pittance brought in from the sales. It literally would be better to just salvage the salvageable resources for another project. Unfortunately, they haven't learned that their hiring practices are what's causing this.

>>717158676
That pajeeta game plus forspoken are obviously poison games that companies advise (either kikes or chinks) to tank the japanese company reputation and money and then buy them out for cheap, my guess is some big company is after square Enix since articles are fucking obsessed with final fantasy dying and raping children

>>717152507 (OP)
>Taking over 10 years to develop a game and then firing everyone
Based. They deserve it for shilling said corps and attacking their audience.

>>717156945
>but I do believe the economy is fake
Well, you're sorta right. Most of the American economy has been stagnant for years and all the growth happens only at FAANG. Especially the stock market is utterly divorced from reality because everyone has internalized the idea of "let's just get an ETF" which then quickly became "Let's just get the mag seven", those tickers will always keep going up.
Growing inequality is a massive issue. Just like a monopoly of sellers is very bad, so is one of buyers. Have you kept an eye on GPU performance the last few years? Cheap cards have stopped improving at all, while the the top end cards make larger and larger leaps. Companies are abandoning normal people and only focusing on the rich who do keep getting more and more money.

>Why aren't companies firing 80% of the workers then to save costs?
Because that's not mental work works, especially programming. It's not some repetitive factory process, you have ebbs and flows. You are most productive when you're in the "zone", and no matter how hard you try you cannot maintain that state for 8 hours. You get maybe four ours of focused work out of a programmer per day, and if that gets interrupted in any way you've already lost 30 minutes to get back in. So it's entirely expected that thos two hours account for 95% of work done that day, while the rest is boring maintenance work like updating Jira tickets and looking busy for the boss.
The entire working model of modern white collar jobs is complete bullshit that only really exist for the egos of managers and contempt of the owning class towards workers.

>>717158836
1. The company was founded in 2017, and they started pre-production work with a 2018 announcement.
2. Sweet Baby founders were hired for universe work.
3. They started seriously working on it in 2020 with the buying of the physical studio.
4. Bandai Namco swoops in and buys the studio.
5. Sweet baby is created and Sweet baby itself is hired as consultants (after the originals have been working there since day 1).
6. Game is released as a supreme flop. By this time even the publisher knew it was a dud and pulled marketing for the game.

No one cared. Likely everyone at Reflector saw it as a grift and just went through the motions. They got hired for years of work. Sweet baby people made millions. The two founders were paid hansomely by Bandai Namco.

>>717159074
>egos of managers and contempt of the owning class towards workers.
It's amazing how shit the world is to avoid hurting boomers shitty egos. Tons of useless buildings that can be replaced by remote job but the boomer boss cry if he can't see Timmy's nape while he works kek

>>717158832
>indie devs
>short dev times

a lot of good indie games take multiple years to make. Not to mention early access too. They really dont constitute "short" anymore.

>>717156350
>It'd explain why shortly after mass layoffs they just go back to hiring.
hiring barely literate jeets that will work for pennies and get deported if they make any demands. Blatant case of wage-dumping

>>717153232
no. kotick thinking is what got us here.
taking the fun out of making games.
making games like you would make burgers at mc donalds.
videogame development as a career out of college so that people with no passion enter the industry.
the LAST thing these studios need is more manager faggotry.

al-gharbi's quote in full on this. Notice the head Concord devs all got re-hired.

>>717152990
Console generation you transexual sea urchin

>>717159302
This need to end with these bad actors who KNEW that they were creating unsellable products getting the shit sued out of them by investors.

It was a team effort? That just means that more than one person needs to be sued.

>>717156945
People are what's valuable. They are willing to work as a slave under a dozen people to help produce things that get inflated in perceived value.
The materials to produce a drug for example are so abundant and mass produced but inflated in fiat because everyone wants it, while often times you can just pick up some weeds to make it yourself but no one remembers the processing and materials of it anymore, it's no longer common sense.

Workers are held down by their managers, this happens all the time as someone potentially better than them is a threat to their own position so friends, tax deductible employees are hired to pad the workplace while competent driven workers are given more work and held back until they submit to slack off.

Zoomers are fooled into aforementioned working under a dozen people instead of working for themselves. Laws are quite literally constructed for men to own a business and properties and are incentivized to grow those to hire others, getting married etc.
Yet it's their dream to get involved with the absolute scum of society like in Hollywood because they grew up staring at some jew actor's ugly mug playing pretend and became imprinted, ditto for chasing the music scene thinking they'll make a breakout hit without joining a cult and getting sexually abused by a pervert first.

If the company can survive being bloated and are earning enough then it's just a temporary haven to farm money just like Star Citizen they have no share holders to get scalped from yet continue to get funding while they just hire their friends doing almost nothing at their leisure to coast.

The economy is real, but it's people. To get farmed by the most ruthless sociopaths because the people are too arrested to defend themselves and trustworthy.
Their very organs are farmed, their labor, your ideas do not belong to you, your work is credited to the chosen people and you are told to kick your own kin out at 18 after poisoning them if you even have any.

>>717158832

I'm using Unity and I still don't know how some indie games get made so quickly. A Short Hike only took like 3-6 months iirc.

>>717159465
I would just have it that if your game bombs that hard like Concord, you'd clean things up by just black listing the heads of all the departments from gaming. however, as al-gharbi predicted (he isn't even talking or likely even aware of Concord) they get re-hired like it's nothing. With companies too big no one is control and thus non one takes the blame for anything.

Shrinking the size of companies is essential. Teddy Rosevelt was a trust breaker.

>>717152735
If you take one look at an office in Silicon Valley you're going to lose any guilt about not having a job forever.

>>717153348
I wouldn’t call it HL3 type delay. Valve delayed it because they weren’t satisfied with what they were coming up with. Most studios get stuck in development hell due not to people saying “we could do better” but not being able to properly create what they have. It just ends up with people slogging to make something that would have taken four years before. People can blame technology advances or engines becoming more complex but everyone knows that’s bullshit. It’s just another excuse to attempt to justify the sheer level of incompetence that exists within the industry today. All of these bastards know their positions are in constant jeopardy. They hate gamers because we are the ones that ensure whether they are able to pump out another shit show and so they want us all to be mindless consumers with little to no criticality. I people say blame the suits not the devs but the devs act like suits. They don’t try anything new, they don’t strive to be better. They just surround themselves with sycophants and tells themselves that they’re the second coming of John Carmack or whatever dev you want to use. And then when their shit fails and they have to face the music they blame gamers for not eating the trash. While learning absolutely nothing.

>>717159748
>If you take one look at an office in Silicon Valley you're going to lose any guilt about not having a job forever.

>>717152507 (OP)
PAY GAME DEVS WHAT THEY’RE HECKIN WORTH

>>717159863
>>717159831

NEW: bioshock was never good [Great News!]

>>717159748
>>717159831
Those are managers/marketing/HR/consulting
AKA the nobility
Not actual product people

>>717158161
>I half think Square especially should get some fresh ideas, publish cheaper A and AA model games, and run with it.
Isn't that what they're doing with all the HD-2D stuff? Except instead of making new games, they're remaking their old classics. Somehow SE is always terrible with budgeting because every game somehow sells below expectations, compared to say Capcom still outpacing the S&P after the four failures Dragon's Dogma 2, Exoprimal, MH Wilds and Pragmata never.

>and have some passionate guy have some fun
I don't think you can sell those risks to management, it's just not the company culture. From is just more willing to experiment and to release things that aren't the second coming of Christ: Nightreign was clearly just their internal testing for Duskbloods, but they've added a little bit of money to it and made money on training their devs(which doesn't have much anymore)

I think the next "big" thing will just be studios trying to buy the successfull indies and either giving them a higher budget sequel, or outright remaking old hits. E.g. Undertale with voice acting.

>>717152507 (OP)
If they were ok with infinite, just how shit must have been the current game?

>>717159971
As soon as cutoffs came during the pandemic they axed "about half" of the employees

You're correct but you say that like they're a small minority. It's a fascinating dynamic, but it's half students from Hong Kong working on some of the hardest problems in existence and half human resource manager managerial consultants sending one email a day and spending the rest of their time feeding the ducks and getting a foot massage

>>717152507 (OP)
Who is going to get fired first?

>>717152593
which is hilarious considering they basically avoided every mass organized normgroid chimpout (war) since, idk, their war of independence or something, too lazy to check but they weren't impacted by the major wars like ww1, ww2, cold war, etc. like europoors and asians were.

>>717159631
I assume it's just a matter of being good with C#. Otherwise Unity is literally lego, i had a primitive platformer running in a week after getting into unity.

>>717152920
it's not just the women but also chocolate people and normgroids (including males) who infested tech. Tech turned from a meritocratic autist club into a disgusting mess of team building exercises, passive aggressive HR cunts, vibes, 10 stage interviews, nepotism, etc. This is why everything feels so corporate, feudalistic and normaltarded now. Full of disgusting moralfagging and all kinds of stupid shit. It's like a glimpse into the toilet of a "mind" that the average sheep has.

>>717158676
>They even bought the god damn studio, too, which makes me think that these are intentionally created as "bait" for a big publisher to buy up from the get go.
That actually is a big issue in the start up scene nowadays. No one is building a company so that it can be a valuable contribution to the world, they're making a sales pitch for google and co.
If you make a conventional company you've got ten years of hard work ahead of you before you get filthy rich. But if you go for the "burn money, sell below cost, become monopoly, raise prices", you can just sell the company in before getting to the difficult part and you're filthy rich in three years. Even if you fail, you can just do the second method twice again for the same investment as the first one.

>>717159631
>>717160289
I'd say it's all the non-technical factors that matter more. There's a massive difference between sitting down full time in an productive environment doing what you know, and trying to motivate yourself to do more work/learning on top of your usual job. I've been at it for a while, but I get maybe 5 productive hours each week because normal life already drains my energy.

>>717156962
if you want to make a videogame you make your own in your off time.
you will not be working on anything of value at an AAA company anyways,

why should anyone care about Bioshock at all? legitimately?
why are millennials so susceptible to recognizable IP's?

>>717152990
You bedeviled egg, he meant console generation!

>>717154079
Software development has some unique properties when it comes to burning money.

Damn got worried but then remembered the bioshock I was looking forward to is getting made by inexile

>hire shit
>develop shit
>optional: release shit

>>717160260
The estrogen gremlin on the far left.

>>717152507 (OP)
incompetent zero talent women have ruined this industry

>>717154260
To be fair you could easily spend days trying to get one single sound effect to sound just right. Or days making revisions when your boss doesn't think it sounds right to him. Then another week after his boss weighs in.
It's on the company to decide how much effort they want to put in. There's also feature and quality creep with these things. I don't know about League but Dota 2 arcanas have started practically remaking every single little part of the hero with 5x the effort.

Narrative overhaul means minimizing or obscuring the woke shit they injected 4 years ago

>>717160982
>New world is a utopia by Mrump, the billionaire and Melon Fusk his right hand man and tech wiz guy. Troons and faggots or something.

I can write these in my sleep.

>>717152996
>Industry standard is only hiring contractors and not actual full employees so you can skimp on benefits.
Exactly this. It also leads to there being no continuity in studio culture.
Big tech ethos has infected game development so that execs no longer think of developers as creatives but just numbers on a spreadsheet. They think that x amount of programmers, x amount of artists, x amount of designers etc = game.
Incidentally, this is exactly the sort of attitude that led to developers leaving Atari to start Activision.
Oh the ironing.

>Half-Life 3 / Episode 3 has been a never ever meme for over a decade
>it took 13 years between HL2 EP2 and Alyx

>last Bioshock game was released in 2013
>it's been over 12 years from the last game
>no one cares

I would like to hire 200+ trannies, leftists and dangerhairs for a video game project then proceed to entirely let them control the pace, scope and finances. I'd make sure to constantly cite their poor work and mismanagement as reasons for cutting and withholding pay, giving most only the bare minimum to live but paying bonuses to the leadership so that they will keep the lesser troons in line despite the shit pay. And then suddenly after several years I'd stop paying anyone at all for 4-5 months, then declare immediate bankruptcy and vanish.

>>717152507 (OP)
The western game industry is committing suicide because it lacks creative leadership, almost by design. Americans have this delusion that the best ideas come from collaboration, whenever a studio head or creative visionary leaves they spend years fucking around with too many cooks in the kitchen and if they ever finish anything it's over time, over budget, homogenised slop.

I saw this first hand, you need 1 guy to go into a room and craft a vision that he will then communicate to a team who will help him fulfill it, there is no other way to make anything in an industry that hammered so hard on diversity that no two employees are ever on the same page. Ken Levine was fucking about on a technological dead end for like a decade and will still output a game faster than this bioshock team because he wasn't holding a billion brainstorming sessions a week just to figure out what the fuck he wants.

>>717160376
>10 stage interviews
God this shit drives me insane. I once applied to be a web dev for a local business and they replied to say they were interested but that they had a 7 stage interview process. I politely declined.

I'm fine with code reviews and things like that but good God man.

>>717160438
>I'd say it's all the non-technical factors that matter more. There's a massive difference between sitting down full time in an productive environment doing what you know, and trying to motivate yourself to do more work/learning on top of your usual job. I've been at it for a while, but I get maybe 5 productive hours each week because normal life already drains my energy.
This certainly plays a role. But honestly, between AI acting like a tutor and an insane amount of youtube tutorials you can spend 1-2 hours daily and still achieve insane results.
My biggest roadblock as a solo dev right now are the assets. I can generate all static assets with localgen and retouch them a little, but 2d animations for example are still out of reach.

>>717152735
If the studios are in California or Austin,Texas: Yes. Absolutely.

>>717152507 (OP)
Because the BioShock series main character is the setting itself.

Turns out you have to put effort into the levels.

This shit DOA.

>>717161336
you want to make all their dreams come true? you want to financially support a bunch of nodev trannies? why?

>>717161268
I dont even remember another bioshock game being announced, didn't the team mostly quit and form a new studio?

>>717160260
>almost entirely white and asian males
chudbros… how do we spin this?

>>717161614
it was confirmed this way

>>717161396

>>717161396
It is by design, a part of warfare to cripple another vein of productivity.

>>717161336
That's just welfare and that's already happening but to normal people instead which is what most of this thread is about.

>>717160762
>soon

>>717156325
That office is way way too nice for people who don't make any money

>>717153026
>The next step after ID Verification is to ban all minors under 21 from lootboxes and algorithmic-generated content, and to limit the amount of tokens someone can buy.

FWIW - this is already part of the EU Commission's recent guidance on the protection of minors online:
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/118226 - paragraph 69, points e and i through l.

If you want to operate a game without an 18+ age check, you can't use lootboxes, you can't use battle-passes, you have to have a spending ceiling, you can't have AI systems 'nudging' users into spending, etc. etc.

>>717152735
like 50% of jobs in the west are adult daycare

>>717160260
Why is Steve from Minecraft in this lineup?

>>717154260
>Four people doing little sound effects for a side, side, side portion of a video game.

to the executives thats the most important part of the game.

>>717161868
>can't have AI systems 'nudging' users into spending
Activision and EA aren't gonna like this one, they spent billions on systems that do that, up to and including injecting AI agents into a game masquerading as players to create scenarios where they can directly manipulate people they've identified as vulnerable into spending (eg injecting a bot into the game with lots of paypig shit to clown on that mark user repeatedly and then trying to sell them a solution to getting clowned on)

>>717161602
No, idiot. I want them to not be able to afford their hormones while their lives keep declining in quality from the man of money and make them get in financial trouble and then remove their income entirely very suddenly and leaving them with a 4-6 year gap in their resume where they "worked" on something that never came out.
The alternative is them getting real pay at a studio that might actually release something that would make the world a worse place.

>>717161756
Being Jewish doesn't give you magical abilities to finish games, it's irrelevant to the point being made besides the possible suggestion that Jews are the only subgroup willing to wrangle the goyim the way a Japanese director does

>>717157013
what kind of retarded artists did they hire that think sss needs to be turned up this high?

>>717152507 (OP)
It's their project and they pay for it.

>>717157312
>Every niche and genre is being satisfied
There's still a few ones falling chronically short; but also those are now being tapped.
Never wondered what the sudden upsurge in mecha-related titles was all about?

>>717160260
The guy in the red shirt.
Always the guy in the red shirt.

>>717157312
>we have an oversupply of good games
No we don't, we have an oversupply of regurgitated vomit. Nobody is excited for new games because you already know exactly how the entire game plays from a 5 second clip, I don't even watch entire trailers anymore because it feels like watching a sizzle reel for 1000 different games I already played and am sick of.

The industry solidified in the 360 era and hasn't moved an inch since. Indie games are supposed to be the solution to this issue but 99% of them are shitty clones of old AAA.

>>717162608
Budgets got too big and everyone got scared to try new things. Funny enough, one of the newer styles of games was made by Fromsoft's Miyazaki who was just making his dream games and happened to stumble into something so people copied it. But new budgets are too high to replicate that.

They don't want to join the ahk with another woke flop, so they're reworking it.

>>717152735
>>717154260
Lets put this into perspective

>Palworld was made by a small team composed mostly of honestly bad coders
>They didn't know how to use git so their way around it was to buy +100 pen drives thorought the development of the game and just save the newest version of the game's code into one of those drives, this was their version control
>It releases within a good timeframe compared to regardless
>REAL game devs whine about it having been released too fast

>>717162714
Seriously, if Aloy and the Returnal woman were hot/cool they would have been way popular and free advertising

>>717155831
If I didn't know this was a real person who really worked on that trashfire Concord, I would've thought this was a joke.

>>717162758
Forgot to include image...

>>717162714

>>717162714
How many times is the MADTV lady on there?

>>717162006
>Activision and EA aren't gonna like this one
The entire AAA-segment of the industry isn't gonna like it. It's going to require them to fundamentally pivot away from GaaS games, because GaaS achieves its long term profitability exactly because of these exploitative features. And let's be honest - putting in 18+ age checks everywhere will implode market-share for a title like nothing else can.

Which means a return to regular one-shot experiences, with expansion-pack like DLC story chapters etc. Of course - this is where the whole Stop Killing Games thing will come in. Which means those games will not be allowed to be left in an unplayable state and the publisher loses control on taking them out of rotation to promote purchase of the next title in a series. Which again will mean the next-next game and the next-next-next game will iteratively be competing with their entire past legacies, and actually have to be GOOD to sell.

>>717162758
Palworld is creatively bankrupt dog shit, nobody cares what they did or how they did it. Im not interested in an industry full of shitty UE knockoffs of existing IP

>>717162852
>>717162826
oh and btw, these really are just feminist theories put into place that already took hold in literature departments in the 90s. All this shit is available on Wikipedia, but if you suggest it's being put into place it's a conspiracy.

You can catch them in their own logic though by saying:

1. Are these in theory good ideas?
2. If they are, then it's the moral duty to impliment them right?
3. There are past clips saying the male gaze is a problem and should be eliminated. Are the right or wrong? Have their ideas been implimented yet?

They have to say eliminating the Male Gaze is a moral good, and that it SHOULD be implimented. Having them to defend that it also somehow hasn't been implimented yet, even though everyone in power seemingly agrees it should be, doesn't make any sense.

Ubisoft and naughty dog are like the western studios who keep autosabotaging themselves
>Ubisoft has fucking Rayman, asscreed which is mega popular, splinter cell, far cry for easy money and prince of Persia for cool adventure action games yet they manage to fuck up
>ND are just shooting themselves with tlou2 killing the ip forever, not allowed to touch Jak and now working in that shit Intergalactic is
And ALL it took was to listen to some blue haired femcel or yid, it's fascinating

>>717162758
>It releases within a good timeframe compared to regardless
It didn't. They already had a framework to go off of from their previous survival crafting game, it wasn't made from scratch.

>>717159953
I have no idea what a product manager is or does, and this video explains nothing but what she eats and drinks all day. My guess is it's a non-tech job where she makes unreasonable demands of people who've actually earned their job and are seriously considering to move into the woods with every useless meeting.

>>717162709
FROM is the only studio that structured itself in an intelligent manner, they milk the retarded cows with sequels and funnel that into more experimental projects which teach them how to make more interesting games. Their 2 recent projects are multiplayer slop but atleast I have to watch a significant amount of gameplay to understand what they are doing, no other studio makes games that take more than 10 seconds to understand the formula or gameplay loop.

>>717162852
>>717163032
physiognomy strikes again.

>>717163032
>Ugly woman complains about make gaze
Kek, she wished men looked at her
Also yeah women love the male gaze and men love the female gaze

>>717163057
>splinter cell,

I'm baffled Metal gear and Splinter Cell can't get a perpetual online multiplayer game out of their franchises, despite being seemingly built for them? Spies vs. agents could be their version of Terrorists vs. Counter terrorists.

MGO is well liked, but never supported for more than a few years.

I've heard that game developers are "used to" being laid off by huge companies as soon as the game releases and the small cut of employees left are in charge of updates, meaning that this has been a regular business practice.

>>717163220
>Their 2 recent projects are multiplayer slop
indeed. their decision to make solo-hosts un-invadable was the worst decision FROM could have ever made. Each release made PVP shittier step by step. BUT YOU ARE RIGHT that the whole time I bought each (not Sekiro) FROM game I simultaneously thought "I'm better than those buying CoD and Skyrim rereleases" while eating the same regurgitated shit.

>>717152507 (OP)
How SHIT does your game have to be to fail a publisher review?

>>717162765
the real life models for both are hot
can't have that in a video game

>>717163220
Oh yeah. most companies probably ignored Fromsoft until Elden Ring, and likely started screaming "WE NEED OUR OWN ELDEN RING"

Instead no one asks "We need our own Demon's Souls". That game had a modest budget, and apparently selling 2 million was enough for it to be a successful game. Series have to start somewhere.

Monster Hunter? A sorta ugly janky PS2 game. PS2 games were often like 5-12 million dollars, outside of some mega-huge AAA games. You can't even shit in an office without it costing 25 million.

>>717162895
I specifically mentioned Activision/EA because they had developed (or licensed) a system that could do shit like pic related (this was a leak from 2018 and I can only assume it's been refined to be even more insidiously manipulative since)

>>717163272
>men love the female gaze
No they don't, yaoi, dream daddy tumblr shit and cringe kpop boys are what you get when the female gaze manifests. Men don't feel threatened by it in the same way women do but they don't like it want to consume it.

>>717163672
Nigga I was saying men who goes to gym obviously so that so women lust for them too
Sexuality is healthy

>>717152507 (OP)
Seems like Levine's design philosophy has poisoned every current and former employee of his studio.

>>717163097
That's good thing tho, it means that they are familiar with the framework and have a bunch of shit already done, it only becomes a issue if technical debt becomes too big

>>717163740
We aren't talking about heterosexual dating, we are talking about media and the concept of "gaze" which is a form of crude objectification, which women do engage in and men don't like it either, they just don't sperg out and try to ban it.

>>717163750
Reading comprehension, he's not saying he never wants to finish projects, he's saying he doesn't give a shit about other people playing it since he makes them for himself

>>717163661
>You can't even shit in an office without it costing 25 million
Kek

>>717157727
>Boot up Uma Musume
>Get multiple hours long VN raising sim with tons of varied events
>Each new horse or card I get adds even more content
>Story events outside of the main gameplay are all high quality fully animated VNs even if on short side
>Over 20 hours of quality fun with nice writing extra easily for literally free with way more if I decide to get into crunchier shit like sparks, real horse lore or any of the anime or manga attached to it
Meanwhile
>Boot up a new AAA game
>Get a ugly 10 hours long cutscene simulator with trash writing and ugly-ass graphics
>Get lucky if the game doesn't call you a faggot while at it

>>717163672

Only autistic or manly girls are obsessed with yaoi

>>717163740
>going to the gym
>heterosexual males
pick one

>>717161549
>but 2d animations for example are still out of reach.
Yeah, I've had to start making my own tooling to animate my (drawn, not genned) assets and it's been a pain in the ass. I spend much more time on coding/designing with some default meshes because it's much more fun than getting an art pipeline running.

>>717164238
Wait until you discover gachas that aren't just VNs

>>717162758

Based

>>717164338
I actually enjoy the races, the concerts and raising up the horse tho, I'm not really interested in action games

>>717164338
this reminds me how tendies endlessly complain about how Genshin killed ToTK

>>717164286
Almost all media that embodies the extreme male gaze is also made by autistic men, many of who are feminine in character. That's just how these extremes manifest

>>717161040

Lol

>>717154260
why are people acting this is surprising ? skins are the main revenue stream for this sort of product. they probably have gamer marketing psychologist team for each quadrant of each model they create for one full character model and another team that decides on the specific hash of color

>>717164305
Have you tried Spine? There's a cracked version on rutracker.

>>717152593
If dajuz rule the world how can they be incompetent yet still achieve that? You guys should at least retain internal logic while spewing bullshit from your upper-anus.

>>717152507 (OP)
Let it all burn.

>>717164876
I haven't, and I don't want to be dependend on cracked software in case I go commercial. It's all open source software for me. Starting a side hustle already has massive costs because the stupid laws in my country require me to dox myself just for running a blog, I don't want to be put in a situation where at that same moment I need to buy my entire software stack.

>>717164795
It isn't that it's surprising. It's the fact they had four entire people who did that and nothing else. That's four whole salaries to do something the main sound effect team could have been handling in their off time. The truth is that most human labor in the world today is exactly like this, the Haber-Bosch process did irreversible damage to population dynamics, and governments have been scrambling to create makework and introduce just enough workplace inefficiency to sustain it ever since.

>>717152735
Ye. Western studios suffered from brain drain from 2010 to 2022. What is left is cosmopolitan they/them.

>>717165023
>If dajuz rule the world how can they be incompetent yet still achieve that
Because retarded whitoids like you have carried water for them for centuries

>>717152507 (OP)
Probably woke infested to the point that it's not marketable.
Publisher scraped it to save the still profitable IP.

>>717152810
Rumour is next Xbox and ps comes out 2027. So many studios skipped whole generation becouse they can't just make games.
They sacrificed everything. All that made them unique. They all jumped to UE. And they still can't put out games

>>717165041
What he really means is that he's a writer with a writing degree, but smaller teams don't need a dedicated writer per se. That literally means he's out of a job in gaming. Same goes for all his buddies. They get various specialty degrees so they're professionals. Small teams might have someone who does music and art without any formal degree. They want gaming companies to be as big a beauicracy as possible to justify their jobs.

>>717153694
It looks mad gay ngl

>>717165041
What exactly is this guy bitching about? That publishers might realize that jobs UX designers, writing consultants and Scrum masters are actually fucking useless and unnecessary?

>>717152996
Polish devs joked how everyone had worked on witcher 3. Becouse it was such revolving door.
Eventually they ended up in situation where nobody who wanted to work for them could work with their engine.
Now they are just another unreal slop factory

>>717165023
Idk, how can Gal Gadot be the worst actress in the world and still land block buster roles?
Youre definitely asking the right questions…

>>717165214
>he's a writer with a writing degree, but smaller teams don't need a dedicated writer
Yeah, old games were pretty much just amateur hour writing full of 80s action movie references that were just meant to be cool. You don't really need a college degree, in fact a college degree is probably harmful to the writing process because graduates all have their heads up their asses thinking they're the next shakespeare or have anything at all interesting to say about philosophy or world affairs.

>>717165214
>smaller teams don't need a dedicated writer per se
Indies are the ones employing all those blogger "writers" however. They can't get a job in AAA

>>717153826
Blizzard said 1 in 10 projects gets out. Or something like that.
I wonder what would happen if someone from MS took charge and just put their foot down. Make game in 4 years or it's cut. Like square boss did in 90s and early 2000s (2 year Dev cycle)

>>717154260
I think it was some streamer who got to visit riot. He talked to bunch of devs. One guy there had only made axe skin for some character skin. That was his contribution to project.
I think it was Tim cain who said gaming devlopment went to hell when it became professional. In past everyone was doing little bit everything. According their skills. You had visual artist making quests for game and so on. Now it's just room full of professionals who do nothing.

>>717154263
>I'm not saying this is good or bad it's the way things are
If there's one thing I've learned about development over the years, it's that any time someone says this it's fucking bad

>>717159831

>>717165242
Yes. Why do you think Clair Obscur being made by small studio triggered them so much.
Another is someone actually making good game for once triggers them

>>717165420
They just did that and the entire videogame sphere cried.

>>717159101
>Bandai Namco swoops in and buys the studio.
Is there a reason why? Sounds just like the Concord case

>>717165357
Yeah, they'd have a bunch of nerdy guys who can program and design a game, and then one or two of them write a story. With Mega Man, the director wrote it based on his love of Tokusatsu series and manga/anime he grew up with. He doesn't have a degree in writing. Often a professional artist would be hired for the box art.

Everyone gushes about the writing and story of Silent Hill 2. not a single creative writing degree among the team.

Fromsoft? Miyazaki is a programmer by trade.

Fumito Ueda? He's literally has a degree in VISUAL ARTS.

does anyone know what Hideo Kojima's undergrad degree is off hand? Economics. But he's an odd one, as he wrote fiction the whole time and included a short story in his thesis, which implies he wanted to be a writer but was pressured into getting a "real degree".

You can repeat this endlessly: almost no professional writers were employed in the gaming golden ages of the 70s to early 00s.

>>717152735
Only the really big ones I wager.
Like Naughty Dog probably isn't even big enough so they still do crunches and shit, but if you have a hole between your legs and you get hired by Ubisoft or EA or better yet, one of Microsoft or Amazon's gaming subsidiaries you're golden.
Companies that big typically have no clue anymore about what every single department is doing for the whole so you got a good chance to do fuckall for maybe 5 years until the mass layoffs hit.

>>717152693
Or that the publisher wants live service slop.

>>717165282
she fucked her way up? It's as much a mystery to you as to me. Also stands for bella ramsey which is christian.

>>717165769
>astroturfed AAA game by a big company using multiple studios
Get a real job.

>>717165769
Yeah I saw people in the industry constantly making excuses why Clair Obscur didn't count and how, actually, it had a much larger team than you thought, and how dangerous it is to prefer small teams and blah blah blah. It feels like a group of hacks desperately trying to cling onto a dying industry, like the commies in the last days of the USSR. The AAA industry as we know it is not long for this world and even they know it.

>paid /pol/roach bots trying to steer bloated budgets and teams discussion towards le good white guy times(I am neither white nor did I eve work on a game btw)

>>717165908
I'm blonde and worked on 2 games and they're right. Also I can tell that you're gay

>PDS sufferer shadowboxing against a scenario he made up in his own mind while everyone else is on topic
Many such cases

>>717165908
Thought I'd let you know that for the next several hours, you will be subject to my telepathic racism field, so if you start feeling violent urges, you know why.

>>717165776
Greatest writer in 20th century was doctor who took up writing becouse his head injury kept him up at night.
But what made him great was his expirience. He wrote basically about his life.
Issue with "profesional" writers is. They don't know about anything. Their lives are hollow. They don't stand for anything. Thus they can't write anything.

>>717159748
100% correct, shit like >>717159831 and >>717159953 is why I leech money off the government.
I am a spiteful person with a crabs in a bucket mentality. If I'm not getting a lazy girlboss job then I'm not contributing until all of them get fired also.

>>717165776
Well, it helps that most games in that golden age didn't put that much effort into their stories. Most of them were more like context for why you were doing something, like how Mario's extremely minimal fairytale-esque story is basically an excuse for jumping on shit and throwing a giant turtle into a fire. Some games like Deus Ex hired professional writers, and I love that game's writing to death, but even most RPGs of the time could get away without hiring a dedicated writer because as long as you got someone on your team that understands easy concepts like the hero's journey, acts, character arcs and themes, you can easily pull off a decent story.

The ironic thing is that the dedicated writers and consultants that they hire nowadays aren't even capable of using these simple concepts to tell a competent story. Depressing.

>>717165869
I wonder what will be their next daycare after tech goes through upheaval and current style of doing buisness dies out.

>>717165023
Oh now we're back to defending jews? What happened to Palestine?

>>717152990
lmao, that has to be a bot responding.

>>717166076
You still have to create world even if you don't have any story. Vibes and atmosphere is more important than story. And making that is creative work. And if someone sits down and puts pen to paper and plans what this stuff. It's still writing.

>>717152990
A console generation, you daft tit

>>717152693
>>717165798
>Or that the publisher wants live service slop.
Far more inclined to believe this.
They saw the game and said ".... but how can we make money from customers forever off this? Where is the multiplayer? No plans for season passes? Battlepass? This won't make us Genshin money!"

>>717166123
From river to the sea, bitch.

>>717166183
It is but you don't need a dedicated writer to do any of that shit is my point. Most games can do without one. That's the problem the industry is facing right now, too many bloated teams that could easily be cut down to 10% of their current size. They're bleeding money.

>>717154501
Because gamers will fucking pay full price and play it anyway. Naturally to maximize profit you design your company around milking retards rather than making a good game.

>I'll just buy it and release it or some bullshit

>>717152507 (OP)
>seems like a sustainable business model
Imagine how utterly incompetent the developers are for them to rather lose all the money and get a tax write off rather than releasing the "finished" product.

>>717165869
I can't really blame them fighting for job security when the economy is so shit. If you're not getting a 5+% raise every year you're objectively getting poorer and everything indicates it's only getting worse in the future.
When companies realize that small teams work better that's even worse for those in the small team because while they deliver more value, they're gonna see wages drop because there'll be ten desperate colleagues willing to the job.

>>717159298
That's not Kotick thinking.
Kotick thinking is:
>find a big name and buy them out
>steadily fire everyone senior behind the scenes
>set them targets and ignore the state of the company, despite the fact you've just gutted it and put retards at the top
>act surprised when it turns out the circus masters you've put in charge hire clowns
>fire everyone, get a golden parachute
>have a horde of dribbling retards call you based despite the fact you were the one who enabled all of it

>>717166457
My heart's not bleeding for all the useless fucks who couldn't stop bleating that blue collar workers needed to learn how to code. Cull them all.

>>717166543
>all the useless fucks who couldn't stop bleating that blue collar workers needed to learn how to code
i see people say this but it feels like some kind of mass psychosis that never happened

>>717166076
>The ironic thing is that the dedicated writers and consultants that they hire nowadays aren't even capable of using these simple concepts to tell a competent story.
Didn't help that most of them don't have notable experience to back their reputation. Suddenly you see them credited as these hotshot writers for AAA video games without any idea what they were working on before to deserve that role, like the people who made Unknown 9.

>>717152507 (OP)

OP, haven't you (((noticed))) that games aren't made for entertainment and money these days?

How it works is this, these sub-humans get into a company working on AAA titles, over time enough get in that the quality of work being produced diminishes significantly.

This is a result of some Karen getting an HR position whose goal is to destroy the company from the inside. She recruits fellow like minded cat ranchers who will make the lives of anyone they work with who subscribes to WrongThink miserable and want to quit or get them fired with false accusations because that was what the "MeToo" movement was really about, removing men from positions of power.

These companies are soo huge it takes a long time until upper management starts to (((notice))) that things are going wrong. Problem is that by then HR Karen has a small army of Feminazis that have infested the company on every level.

Upper management can't say or do anything because they know they'll get hit with a dozen false claims about professional misconduct, sexual harassment etc... from a group of roasties who have conspired to get rid of anyone above them that tries to reprimand them for doing bad work.

Don't you think that upper management didn't see anything wrong with Star Wars Outlaws, Asassns Creed Shadows, Concord, Dustborn etc...?

They did but were too afraid to do anything about it for the reasons mentioned above.

So the goal is to drag out development time for as long as possible so that these parasites can collect a paycheck.

>>717166848

But push comes to shove and a product has to be released, so the company and their friends in the (((media))) pre-emptively go on the offense and start releasing marketing materials and manufacture controversy so that when their game comes out and it's fucking trash that doesn't even work, they will use whatever identity politics shit they made out of the game as a shield against any criticism as only coming from a "small minority of whites straight male basement dwelling incel chuds".

Then when it comes and and is a catastrophic failure those "small minority of whites straight male basement dwelling incel chuds" are suddenly an omnipresent and omnipotent force that was able to make the game fail.

They're such fucking pathological liars that they and the (((media))) will push the narrative that the game only failed because people were literally prevented from buying it by a legion of "white straight male basement dwelling incel chuds" who can now apparently control what people spend their time and money on!

>>717166891

Before hand they'll scream "SORRY WHITE STRAIGHT MALE BASEMENT DWELLING INCEL CHUD NAZI'S, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!!!" then when it fails start screaming "THIS IS YOUR FAULT!!!" when they explicitly stated that the game wasn't for us yet think they're owed our time and money because of their sense of self-entitlement while everything they think, say and do is based on their irrational hatred of white straight males (because of their Daddy issues) and as such can't be reasoned with like a 5 year old throwing a tantrum in a supermarket for something they want that they can't have until someone caves in, which is what they use social media for!

This is why AAA games are finished, companies can still make them but they're almost guaranteed to be broken garbage filled with ideological bullshit.

Screencap this is you want but GTA6 is probably going to be a disaster as roasties forced out anyone who made the GTA series great and filled the ranks with women who hate men, so they have no motive other than to drag out development time which is now going on 12 years and over ONE BILLION DOLLARS!!!, while it was over the second they announced that it was going to be a love story and go with a 3rd person over the shoulder perspective.

I have no faith in this game and know that any positive reviews will be from the usual shills and corporate bootlickers just as long as it makes Incels and Chuds mad as games are only now made to line the pockets of scum who push misandrist propaganda in everything against the oppressive white straight male patriarchy that only exists in their minds as they will always want to project superiority except when they fail then blame everyone else and play victim despite always 100% being the aggressors in every situation and that's because they're narcissist sociopaths with the minds of children who don't want to accept that the general public isn't on their side because they've seen the damage these NPC's have done to everything!!!FACT!!!

>>717166675
They desperately memory holed it out of shame because they were openly gloating about how AI was gonna take blue collar (read: Trump voter/right winger) jobs away while their jobs (patreon art/commission grifting, programming, other typically 'left wing' jobs) would be safe
The exact opposite happened, blue collar jobs aren't totally suited to automation and/or they have enough of a spine/lobbyists to say 'no' and mean it, meanwhile AI easily learned art and programming (it's only improving) and started doing other art stuff with varying degrees of competency
They were shook, and much kvetching and gnashing of teeth occurred, especially when those same blue collar types flipped it back and told them 'learn a trade ;)' which made them go ballistic
They pretend it never happened now and get really mad when you show them the receipts that it did in fact happen

Think they are doing the gay “infinite” shit or will we finally get back in the bathysphere?

>>717166848
>>717166891
>>717166967
Based, true, and redpilled

>>717166992
again this sounds like some kind of mass delusion and it never happened

>>717166076
One problem is that writers in the golden age tended to just crib from what they liked, add a flair to make it fit with the game they were writing for, then make sure it appealed to who they were selling it to.
For example, Baldur's Gate was essentially highlander in forgotten realms.
Writers now are doing the exact same thing, but the works they're cribbing from are YA books at best due to arrested development, the added flair is to make the game fit with them, and the people they're appealing to don't buy the games.
Foreclosure is a pretty good example of this in action.

>>717154079
>it's real
wait what the fuck

>>717167040
Completely new stuff. Latest rumor is, it's going to be a new city in Antarctica or something.

>>717166820
>what they were working on before to deserve that role, like the people who made Unknown 9.
Sucking cock

>>717154501
VFX studios don't?
Or do they just fire everyone

>>717166992
The only push for tech work I remember came from the companies, to the point that my state cut highschool short by one year to catch up on missing workers. Big surprise, in the end it was just a tactic to surpress wages.
I don't work for any big tech firm and frankly I'm just a digital plumber(and get paid about as much). No one in my circles ever had this attitudes, neither the tech guys nor the small business owners that are my customers. Sounds like it's at best some ivory tower bullshit from detached city folk, or the usual psyop of putting working and middle class against each other so the owning class can keep extracting wealth without resistance.

>>717166243
>From river to the sea
India will be free saaar

>>717165817
Great so we established that you can find yourself in a place of power through illicit or dubious activity?

>>717166992
>Commission grifting
Could you have phrased this in a more asshurt way? It's a transaction bro

>>717165772
>Is there a reason why? Sounds just like the Concord case

Almost identical. Lots of corpo speak about reaching wider and western audiences, and how they wanted 50% of all of Bandai-Namco's games made outside of Japan.

120 people working for 4 years is probably a lot of money, plus buying the studio outright. The game was so bland it flew under the radar, but they might have wasted 200 million on it.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/bandai-namco-acquires-montreal-game-developer-reflector-4062754/
https://www.ign.com/articles/bandai-namco-buys-unknown-9-awakening-developer-reflector

What is it with western industries making more money than ever off inferior services and benefits, and still being completely inept at training/cultivating a competent workforce.

>>717167467
The poor get poorer and the rich get richer, what else is new?

>>717167169
There was a time writers wrote what they knew. Modern writers don't know anything but media. It's a bunch of circlejerking all the way down.

>>717167093
I can second that anon though. Back before Ai art was more sophisticated than psychodelic dog faces on things, social media was full with learn to code comments by liberals when there was something about automatization or minorities TOOK OUR JOBS!

>>717152990
This has to be the dumbest post I have ever seen on /v/. And I’ve been coming to this shithole for a long, long time.

>>717167467
the government started using tax dollars to bail out dying businesses and things went to shit real fast from there

>>717167385
A lot of them really did just start drawing incredibly boring, generic slop during covid for money
No passion, just profit
I don't call them artists the same way I don't call fast food workers chefs

>>717152507 (OP)
>come into another's hobby
>"NOOOOO WHY ISN'T IT PANDERING TO MY TASTES"

>>717168107
I love when urinalists starting getting fired en masse and people flipped that 'learn to code' back on them and made them insanely assmad, lefty Twitter mods even started banning people for it because it was now suddenly against the rules when it started being done to them)

>>717167467
Too many variables to list
Western society in general is failing
The main reason isn't some secret silver bullet like currency manipulation or whatever the fuck. The biggest issues are from big, hard to solve stuff. Weakening social contract, mass immigration, institutional decay.

>>717157818
>it wasn't profitable at all, they were just being propped up by gov funding for being a propaganda tool
>barely any noticeable downtimes, with new things being frequently added instead of years of literally no changes
>when retards were doomposting constantly about how it's going to completely collapse
Nice try. Turns out all those whores posting on tiktok about how they got paid large sums doing nothing all day were actually not doing anything productive. What a shocker.

>>717152806
>crunch
what's crunch? is that some fag thing? oh wait you mean overtime? the thing everyone else in the world does normally and doesn't complain about?

>>717154260
Every two weeks LoL gets an update with a bunch of new skins with new SFX.
So two weeks time (at best) for a single person to make new SFX for recall, auto attack, abilities, and a bunch of others if the skin is of even higher price. And that person would have to do that to multiple skins.

I went and checked on the most recent League of Legends patch and they released 5 new skins, each with a lot of new SFX on them.

It really doesnt surprise me they have many people working on SFX for skins considering how much work there is.

t.former assfaggots player

>>717168813
>they were just being propped up by gov funding
lol this retarded while the guy who currently owns it was literally part of the government

>>717152507 (OP)
Bioshock 4 already came out, it's called Atomic Heart

>>717152507 (OP)
Western AAA development a complete dumpster fire these days. The ability to create a good game is outright getting away from them.

This project probably needed a singular creative director, like Kev Levine, to steer the ship. Ken was far from perfect and Infinite was shit, but he had least had a vision and shipped games. You can't do design-by-committee BS with a formerly auteur driven series like Bioshock. If something as creatively foundational as the WRITING is languishing after a fucking DECADE, you're seriously fucking retarded and need a solid creative in there to drive a singular vision.

>>717168828
>everyone else in the world does normally
only third worlders though...
oh, I'm sorry, only SHITTY third countries like burgerlands*

>>717152507 (OP)
a decade of development what a waste of money and time

>>717156945
>Where is all of this money coming from?
Everything you see in stores is sold at 3 times to 600 times their original price, while 2 times the price is already sustainable for business, every service is done at 2-6 times the price they should cost.
Vidya for example should cost $30 adjusted for inflation comparing to their price when physical distribution was the norm.
The money is coming from you, you're founding this.

>>717168546
Correct, and some of these things may simply be too complex and impossible to solve.

Immigration isn't some attempt to destroy the white race. It was just something done to fill in economic gaps and to keep the population growing. But once people became urbanized and educated, children became a cost rather than free labor and a retirement plan so they had less.

Okay, fine, fill in the gap with immigration. What's the big deal?

The same thing is literally happening across the entire world. One day even Sub-saharan africa will be below replacement rate. What then? NO ONE HAS ANY IDEA. No one has thought this far ahead because no one has ever needed to think this far ahead. Immigration was just a stop-gap measure, and they increased it more and more as the native population had fewer and fewer kids.

We may need sci-fi like solutions like literal baby factories to keep up. No one knows.

Companies overhired, this lead to them being forced to hire a bunch of retarded dei roasties. These women live for attention and victim status, so they immediately started flirting with the nerd champions that built the companies (the kind of guys that never normally get any attention from women at all) and got them fired when they started being spergy.

Now all the nerd champions are gone and they can't make shit anymore.

They just need to have mass layoffs, like 50% of the industry gone in a week. This will massively push down wages, cause of how many people are now LFG and once wages are low the women won't want to do it anymore and it will just be nerds passionate about being a gamedev tard will apply

Easy fix. There you go game publishers, you have that one for free.

>>717152507 (OP)
>Spend ten years making a game
>Fails internal review and testing
>"What do you mean I might lose my job after failing at it?"
Why do game devs think they are entitled to their jobs when they are incompetent?

>>717169267
>What's the big deal?
The naive assumption that everyone and every culture is exactly the same.

>>717169373
thats just how modern game devs act. they believe theyre entitled to having their games succeed even if its a piece of shit nobody likes.

>>717168906
Ok? Did Elon funnel USAID money in to X? He has plenty to spare.
It wasn't directly funded, obviously. Twitter before him owning it was propped up by outside institutional investment, notably our good buddies at Vanguard and Blackrock, who themselves make money by being butt buddies with governments.

wtf is a publisher review

>>717152507 (OP)
If you spent 10 years making shit then spending another 10 years polishing that shit with your shit makers is not going to work.
You either start over with new people or you quit.

>>717169560
>outside institutional investment
everything is you stupid nigger

>>717166076
something that has changed is that writers used to be able to really influence the entire production more than they can now

like take dragon age origins, the "writers"/RPG designers got to implement a system where the development had to produce 6-7 different opening vignettes depending on what kind of character you created. And there was a relatively large amount of mutually exclusive content. They would not let writing staff be in charge of decisions like that anymore. Writers now are supposed to make good stories and strong dialog in whatever corner the game designers leave them, even if that's as banal as the fluff text that you don't actually need to read to complete quest compass directed missions.

>>717167337
>*crickets*
Every time

>>717169580
Someone in charge actually bothering to look at the product they've spent 10 years paying for.

>>717169632
Where did I say that Twitter was an exception, you stupid ape? I was making a point how it wasn't profitable and was having money funneled in to it because it was a tool of influence, used by those in positions of power.

>>717152507 (OP)
kev Levine: we make a finished product without microtramsactions and love service, you buy the full game
>3 days later

>>717169797
>it wasn't profitable and was having money funneled in to it because it was a tool of influence
>source: dude trust me

>>717169267
The current solution is "AI makes workers redundant, we do away with democracy and let them all die". See Yavin and his ilk planning to destroy nation states and installing themselves as new feudal lords.

>>717169580
They handle getting your product to the customers. So dealing with international laws, advertising, business relationships with the various platforms, legal stuff, etc. Think the boring but necessary stuff that the solo indie dev doesn't want to do, applied at scale. They also often support development financially so that the devs can afford rent until the game is done.
Unfortunately that gives them a lot of power over any developer without a massive warchest which publishers leverage for favourable contract terms that keep them in power.

>>717169679
That's a natural part of company size. When you're working solo on that spiritial successor to your childhood, if you notice a thing is difficult to animate, You can just write it out of the story. In a small company you might have to convince Dave the owner instead, in AAA studio it's a series of meetings that will never happen because you're just a lowly peon, the decision makers aren't even on the same continent as you.
It's just really difficult to communicate a creative vision across many people, doubly so if they're all subcontractors scattered across the world.

>>717158832
>short indie dev time
>laughs in katana zero
>cries in katana zero

>>717156945
>Hundreds of million of dollars down the drain for cancelled projects, marketing budgets getting bigger and bigger, staff getting bloated and bloated.
>Where is all of this money coming from? where is it going? sure esg/dei, but someone HAS to pay to keep the light on, right? the investors should be mad and want better roi, no?
It's not just the video game industry, any big publicly traded science or tech corporation wastes millions on retarded projects that get cancelled. Investors don't get mad because number keeps going up.

401ks really solidified this system because number goes up as long as employment goes up. Hence a whole economy of unproductive daycare jobs to keep number going up.

>>717168546
>>717169267
One day everyone will remember why we need religion.

>>717165023
Turns out lacking any morals whilst parasitizing the most moral nations to ever exist can be very advantageous in a Machiavellian sense. Unfortunately for jews, their hubris seems to know no bounds, which is why their entire history seems to consist of subverting civilizations up until they get absolutely btfo by their hosts.

>>717152507 (OP)

>>717154263
Another engine bits the dust for unreal engine.
And i fucking hate unreal engine jank so much.

>>717152806
HECKIN CORPORETINIOS HECKIN HECKIN SUITS HECKING EXECUTIVERONIES ERMAHGERD BASED DEVA CAN'T DO NO WRONG HECKIN HECK HECK

>>717170508

>a new bioshock was announced

>>717154831
Games like veilguard are more a case of "this project is unsalvable, release something functional to at least recoup some money".

>>717154917
That's what he said bro learn to read

>>717153232
I don't know about suits specifically because they tend to be out of touch and just interested in squeezing as much money out of something as possible.
That said you are correct that it's important to have at least SOMEONE there who's making sure that things are staying on track and the game is going to release within the target audience's lifetimes. Games taking over a decade to produce and being forced to break records just to make it's money back is not sustainable, especially when a single failure can just bankrupt the studio if they aren't already big enough to take the hit.

>>717155649
>>717156212
Veilguard got greenlit when it was marvel all the way down. The troubled production was due to EA realising how fucked it was and trying to desperately wrangle it into a semi serious game, but not being aware of just how much they'd have to tear out by the roots to do so.
Don't let them fool you; the buck may have stopped at EA for being oblovious and complacent, but bioware were just as guilty.

>>717154501
its not normal, which is why its struggling like this right now.
its a house of cards with no foundation.

kike

>>717163032
Why has the solution been "men shouldnt be allowed to do male gaze" and not "women should be in positions where they can do whatever gaze they want" if "feminism" is supposedly about uplifting women and not just ruining anything men do for fun?

>>717153240
jewish media will attribute any success to the nearest kike they can find

>>717169679
writers are retarded, the more writers a game has the worse it ends up

>>717167463
>I need a wider audience
>Instead of china, who hates woke shit in their games, I'm going to target broke minorities in america who historically think video games are gay nerd shit!

>>717169843
ken levine is not involved with that Bioshock game. he is however a decade into his own Bioshock-like that would also fail publisher reviews if there was a serious publisher attached to it. and he indirectly created this situation for the Bioshock devs since they are the replacements for the more competent devs Ken Levine burned through mismanaging Infinite's production.

>>717152806
You're right that execs are generally the most retarded people on earth.
>no if you're an actual game dev who needs to crunch constantly.
As long as you mean true game developers, and not the other useless employee roles.

>>717152507 (OP)
This is dumb. Just release what you have. Or implement my foolproof idea.

>>717177283

>>717168828
Everyone complains about having to do overtime, rabbi. You might not understand this, but most people actually don't enjoy spending all their time at work.

>>717168828
>oh wait you mean overtime? the thing everyone else in the world does normally

slave and proud!

SLAVE AND PROUD!

>>717153232
The suits are the problem too. Someone at SEGA looked at HYENAS and thought "yeah this is gonna be our supergame, quick shovel money into it"

>hire leftists
>every single company is ruined
lol
lmao
lmfao
even a faggot leftoid admits this youtube.com/watch?v=LMVQ30c7TcA

NEVER hire leftists, they are not people, they are a plague, like rats and roaches.

>>717152593
>westoids
Leftists*

>>717178051
playing doubles advocate, Hyenas was one of the few times an exec pulled his head out of his ass and recognised a sunk cost fallacy when he canned it.

>>717152735
Pretty much any company nowadays is. In case you didn't realize, smartphones, constant political propaganda and Web 2.0 turned people into mushy brains that can't focus on shit. Ai will further destroy their ability to think.

>>717178549
>doubles advocate
check em

>>717178549
That's true but that's also just putting a bandaid on the absolute black hole of funding and dev time the game was.

>>717156919
>blaming the engines for UIs looking bland
Are you retarded?

>>717153232
Concord was exec meddled to death though. The designs worked in the original shader style (which they used in a few cinematics), but they were forced to make everything realistic. They also were forced to just dump it rather than going through the early access system which has proven to be more effective at making the final game work (for a non-online AAA version, see the changes made to FFXV after Episode Duscae was released).

Execa should be involved in management and budgeting but shouldn't fucking touch any of the creative decisions because they're sociopaths who don't understand emotion or beauty.

>>717152507 (OP)
>Fire devs if game flops
>Fire devs if game is a moderate success
>Fire devs if game is truly successful
>No veteran devs left because all are fired
>All the freelancers are unmotivated or simply don't care and do it for the paycheck, not gonna get a pernament position afterwards anyways so why bother
>New devs are inexperienced, no veterans to show them the ropes
Some real lobotomites are in charge of the industry, obsessed with quarterly reports and pleasing shareholders even if that means gutting the studio and essentially selling it for parts

>>717178840
if you haven't realized that most of /v/ is nodevs talking out of their ass then idk what to tell you

>>717178593
It's incorrect to say that phones make you dumb. They make you pathologically anxious which makes you dumb. Compare Zoomer savvy dealing with online social phenomenons like canceling vs boomers. They're smart, they just can't concentrate. Full Harrison Bergeron.

>>717152507 (OP)
hire indians, get shit. many such cases. sad!

>>717179079
Obviously I was using the oversimplified version. Anxious you say? How come? Fomo?

>>717179230
Not their fault necessarily. More often than not the instructions they get are cancerous.

>>717179403
Dopamine bullshit and the digital panopticon. This is why well eing is improved if you move to accessing the internet only using a desktop in a fixed location, even if you're using the same platforms. Having an "internet room" reduces your access if you have anything resembling normal responsibilities or aims outside the house, so you're not compelled to be constantly checking notifications or w/e.

>>717152735
>game studios
Literally every corporate job is 1 competent white or asian dude doing actual work for every 9 other employees who can't accomplish anything. And our entire economy is built around that model.

>>717180416
Explains it. I do exactly this, just use the desktop for Internet, with few exceptions, like calling a cab.

>>717180532
>1 competent white or asian
>Racism outside /pol/
I can't tell you how many companies I've consulted at where everything would fall apart if the black (usually a lady) middle manager who is never, ever going to get promoted left. I can't remember if it was Harvard or Princeton's business review, but they did a study and found that white workers either get stuck in entry level or fast-trackednto upper management within the first 3 years at a company, blacks (and my wager would be on non-Indian Asians) get up to that middle managemet level and have to spend 10-29 years there before even getting a look, if at all. So they end up being the source of insitutional knowledge. This is for top performers, white dudes usually work their way up to middle management in about 10 years (regardless of competence).

>>717152735
I think a lot of anons dont realize just how fucking retarded upper management is at the majority of companies. Its like these fucking worthless mongrels get an ego and believe themselves to be buisness gurus that can successfully run a buisness in any industry.

>>717181056
kek
meanwhile anyone who has worked with one knows you are talking out of your ass.

>>717181056
yeah, if I had a nickel for every time a game studio was sunk because the black lady middle manager who worked there for over 10 years...
do you even hear yourself while typing this nonsense? no internal monologue huh?

>>717154260
The skins are how they make any money, so it makes these they have a large team working on it.

>>717152735
Games are just massive technical and logistical challenges these days. And these are a dozen things that can break down a production pipeline, which means the game stops being made.

Not like anybody will care about my blogpost, but ....

I work in a 500 man studio for almost 10 years now, and i first hand saw as its lost its ability to create projects, when i started it had less than 100 people, i think 40 but i dont remember.
Back then we used to take 6 months to make a demo/prototype thats completely playable and another 12-18 months for content for and in 2 years we were ready for release. Then we grew to around 300 people and project started taking 3-4 years but mostly to feature creep and content bloat.
Now multiple internal teams are not capable to producing a prototype that is more that just game jam tier flash game tier joke in 2 years, company is desperate as out last big title is from 5 years ago and we have literally nothing in production ... and we now have 500 people working here.

So what went wrong?
Mostly.... women. To be exactly HR and management. It started slow but as company grew HR grew too, eventually we got specialized "recruiter" "HR positions that would then hire managers who would then hire producers who would hire more managers.
At first people hired had game dev experience, but soon it was 25 year old women straight out of uni, hiring 21 year old women with no education, who then would hire random fags from other countries.
Soon we had indians with fake CVs, being led by managers who dont even know what even Nintendo is as our mental child manager is either high, or hangover from going to a party every day, led by jewish banker CEO.
People got frustrated since the ones being paid the most did the least, quickly the talent from company started bleeding, endlessly replaced by new people. At this point only me and 2 other guys are from the "old team".

It may be crazy to some, but in a 500 man studio we have almost 0 people who know how to create an unity shader. We had a dozen technical artists, but they quit or got fired, never to be replaced as managers looked where to cut costs and hired more mangers to do it.

>>717181793
>massive technical and logistical challenges
they dont have to be. retards trying to justify their paycheck makes it so.

>>717181056
source: harvey goldmanstein, anthropologist, communist, and blm activist

>>717167093
>>717166675
"learn to code" was something journos and blue checkmarks were saying amidst mass layoffs of coal miners in 2014/15 in the US.
a few years after that there were mass layoffs at BuzzFeed (and some other dogshit media company) and people mocked them with the same phrase.
pretty sure twitter started to suspend accounts that said it for harassment.
also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDRK0MyuuIM

>>717152507 (OP)
Isn't that basically the same thing that happened with Bioshock Infinite problem only worse?

>>717181958
and then they hire a bunch of H1Bs instead

>>717181901
>they dont have to be.
Yes, CoD doesn’t have to exist, but it does.

>>717152990
>I'M A VERY SMART PERSON

>Ken Levine is a hack
News at 11

>>717156325
This looks like a 5 year olds birthday party. A level up sign? Grim.

>>717181884
>ESL gibberish
Very organic post, do redeem

>>717181884
What company? Plz name names

>>717152507 (OP)
the perfect dark reboot getting shitcanned after releasing a full cgi "trailer" with fake gameplay was great
every parasite leeching on old IPs needs to die

I think two things are killing the industry.

During the X360 and PS3 era, execs were also paying developers like shit and gave them horrible hours.
But they thought it was okay, who cares if they get burnt out, there is always a new batch of wide eyed devs coming out of college they could exploit. Well they've finally burnt through all the good developers. Competent people coming out of college know how shit the industry is and would rather work better jobs. The only people sticking with game dev are shitty devs, or people who are only in it to push their ideology.

The next is more of a Microsoft problem, but maybe other publishers have it too. Microsoft rejects any prototype if it looks ugly. This meant devs spent almost a year making a single proto pretty in order to be considered for green lighting. Prototypes are supposed to be ugly, it's rapidly testing what's fun to play. A good game dev should be making 1-2 new prototypes a week, not once a year. So many games are spending too much time in pre-production because they're making 3D models, shaders, and animations for their prototypes.

Of course, this shit isn't happening in Japan. They treat their workers with basic respect that they stay with the company for years. And most executives were once game devs, they know prototypes are ugly, but can still see the fun in it.

>>717181958
Funny how that crass mockery from the left magically became against Twitter rules the second it started being parroted right back at them from the very people they mocked

>>717182913
>Japan...treat their workers with basic respect.

>>717180532
That's roughly it. I found videos from the 70s where economists strongly disadvice to hire women on a larger scale, due to efficiency reasons. Can't say that today, huh?

>>717182913
>miyamoto-san we we put armsu on a kuribo and it was tanoshii so we wourd rike to make a donkii kongu geemu
>ok

>mr spencer, we made a prototype for a new banjo kazooie game
>nah it won't sell 20 million copies, scrap it

>>717157727
>most of players unironically moved to gacha and mobile gaming
That's not what happened, you retard.
>b-but I'm not retarded
Yeah, I'm sure you play gacha slop as some sort of experiment.

>>717181884
>internal teams are not capable to producing a prototype
Why? Management? Communication? Lack of talent or organisational skills?
>hr
Women are like consultancy agencies, they hijacked companies and act like cancer in a company.
>At first people hired had game dev experience, but soon it was 25 year old women straight out of uni, hiring 21 year old women with no education, who then would hire random fags from other countries
Globalisation in few words

>>717159161
Extremely short if you count the duration in man-hours.

>>717182503
Insert any smaller medium sized game dev, my studio isnt that well known, 2 big games straight into over 5 years mia.
Since every time i talk with people i know from biggest studios i often hear about incompetent management, lack of accountability and competency crisis. And i worked with people from Ubisoft, Blizzard, Cd Project and others, they usually get hired based on their CV, see how much of a disaster our studio is, stay 1-2 years and evacuate as they see the mass layoffs from mile away. Since we already were hit bi "big" layoffs, but those positions were filled quickly by more managers and middle men soon. We got those "stars" who are supposed to save our project on rotation, they never do shit.
I think most baffling stories i heard about Ubisoft, i just cant wrap my head around multiple thousands of people working on a single game, since i know 300 already is so many you will never know who the fuck is responsible for what.

>>717181884
See >>717183120 (me)
>>717181958
>said it for harassment.
>>717182425
Moronic disgrace
Kek, fake world we live in.

>>717164031
>Reading comprehension
You have autism and are wrong.

How actually awful does the narrative have to be for modern companies to want you to overhaul it

>>717183516
From a theoretical standpoint it's clear, really: the hiring process is completely detached from recognising talent or scanning for a possible match. It's reduced to a sticker logic that compares if the right words or rather the right names are in it. A little bit of behavioural sink. Only those alike (e.g. incompetent) can enter. Easy to observe in politics and their parties or ngos. AFAIK this problem is already known to anthropologists, but no one k ows what they do so no one bothers either.

>>717166051

Truke

>>717169843
>anon thinks he knows what he is talking about because he heard something once 10 years ago
>anon makes this post

>>717153474
Adding the Wonder Woman game to the list, just wondering wtf happened that got cancelled out of nowhere.

>>717183857
>>717166051
Explains why modern stories feel like shit. Who's that greatest writer?

>>717166051
they can only write in tropes they've seen other hacks use, it teaches them stupid shit like catcalling is a big deal

>>717158421
>Having a tight, highly efficient team that quickly completes a project that resonates with gamers and sells gangbusters.
Look, you're not going to hit some milestones here and there. But the issue is that AAA suits think that if you have a bigger team, you can finish the game faster or make it bigger/better.
It completely dilutes the game. For example look at Larian games or Expedition 33. Small studios with people who want to make good games.
Arkan studios also did some good stuff, they kinda stuck to their niche but at some point the owner of the company just bailed after Zenimax kept sabotaging their games.

>>717157727
yeah

>>717170608

>>717184096
Just look at owlcucks. Wotr took like 7 years or so and is still bug ridden. The upcoming games will be a mess. Especially the fps will be a funny experience.

>>717184212
because those "russians" were evil kike atheists

>>717169267
The idea that you can just naively extrapolate in times as protean and unstable as these is the peak of retardation.

The world has enough resources to sustain the people on it, especially with modern technology. The rest is commentary.

>>717165041
>People finding success on their own will lead to death of professional developers
>But not being severely underpaid and overmanaged so every single professional is incentivized to get the fuck out of video games as a career and seek employment in a field that will actually pay them and let them do their work, leaving only people with no experience, people who aren't good enough to find a different job and shitskins
Behead all journalists.

>>717183413
>Why? Management? Communication? Lack of talent or organisational skills?
A mix of management to dev ration being too big, where everything starts with project owners and producers that then waste months even years trying to assemble a team of people to actually do the work.
And lack of actual knowledge on how to do it. The few generalist unity specialist who can do shit are overworked and split among too many competing internal projects. This leads to the results to be half assed, fail any internal and outside retention tests and be shit canned for the next idea. Hell, we were supposed to switch to unreal, but almost nobody here has experience with it, so we just ... gave up on that.

>Women are like consultancy agencies, they hijacked companies and act like cancer in a company.
Pretty much, my new team manager is 22, has 0 industry experience, is from czech republic and barely speaks English and dosnt play vidya. And 50% my time is wasted explaining her what we even do and what Maya or unity even is and why i cant provide 20 animation sets a week.

>>717184295
With so many people there is just mismanagement and lack of direction.
You can't expect a dev studio to release a massive success every 3-4 years or try to reduce that time. At some point you have to accept that things take a while.
Look at CoD, that series has like 2-3 different dev teams so they can actually have a new release each year.
Sure, it's the same shit every time but at least they understand that you can't overwork/overstack one team

>>717165869
>>717165242
The thing is that they don't want people to know who is behind the creative process.
There are very few IPs that have a name to them. For example Metal Gear and Kojima.
The publishers want everyone to think "they" made it. Kinda when you say "hey look at this Capcom game/IP" when the actual force behind it was a team of people with some head honcho like Shinji Mikami.
They fear that some guy or some guys are going to be recognized in the future

>>717183979
Think he might be talking about William Carlos Williams, hard sell for best author of the 20th century, though

>>717181958
that has nothing to do with programmers

>>717184629
>competing internal projects.
It's ridiculous, but that's the norm. If the company gets big enough, rivalry between teams and groups will happen eventually.
>just ... gave up on that.
How much time, money and motivation did this fail cost y'all?

>>717184629
>And 50% my time is wasted explaining her what
When I had my fist team, some fuckhead from Mexico asked me after roughly a year, what exactly our... Business model is. Not soon after I quit everything. Waste of my time.
>>717184687
Games shouldn't take much longer than two years. Gameplay >> graphics. Game industry however are already just another industry for rich people to invest, nothing more. The result is what we have nowadays: unfun games, some are even good looking.

>>717185474
Games don't take long to develop just because of graphics, retard-kun

>>717184518
as a journalist he's got less of a future than anyone

>>717183849
Yeah, hiring and promotion system makes rewarding skilled labour impossible. Its simillar in other fields, but IT is especially bad.
Most important people are in management, they decide who gets hired and paid most, and in turn hire more menagers to "help them" when company bloats.

There was a point i did most of the hiring process, tests, interviews etc as a lead, but then randomly one day i was cut off from the system due to "personal info protection" when in reality they tried to hide from me who makes how much and that new hires from other countries are paid 3x more. Then i was asked to just review the tests and go to an interview to see if the person even knows whats hes talking about, saying no or yes, and 2 months later that person would be hired or not. Now we hired extra people to just that, gating off the hiring process from the team itself completely.

Its just a big scam to take as much money from the publisher as possible before the studio folds.

>>717185067
>hard sell for best author of the 20th century, though
My thoughts exactly. Did he mean le bon? Not really 20th century.

>>717152507 (OP)
Should have fired the directors instead of the employees. I mean, they're not to blame if the work they did was good but the general direction fucking sucks

>>717185597
Obviously, but it's easier to dish out pixel paradise than ultra fidelity ray trace game. Skip 150 fetch quests and deliver maybe 5 interesting ones with branching paths.

>>717153240
Most of the time the actual people who makes a nice game are a whole group instead of the face of the team.

>>717185671
>There was a point i did most of the hiring process, tests, interviews etc as a lead, but then randomly one day i was cut off from the system due to "personal info protection" when in reality they tried to hide from me who makes how much and that new hires from other countries are paid 3x more. Then i was asked to just review the tests and go to an interview to see if the person even knows whats hes talking about, saying no or yes, and 2 months later that person would be hired or not. Now we hired extra people to just that, gating off the hiring process from the team itself completely.
That happens all the time. Management is basically working against the workers. Similiar to politicians.
>>717185671
>Its just a big scam to take as much money from the publisher as possible before the studio folds.
I'm pretty sure that more and more companies will die, as soon as the interest rates rise. They will decline in the near future, but that will likely backfire big league.

>>717185857
>poor little devs can do no wrong
Hire them and become rich with your amazing company.

>>717152507 (OP)

>>717184964
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhmYENdFZc8
It's a long talk (and shitty 2004 quality), but Jason tells of how Marketing and Development are at odds with each other, and Marketing is winning.

He tells a story, developers wanted to go to their game's launch party but weren't invited. They go anyways, security goes "huh, you're not on the list, but maybe they forgot to mention you." and lets them in. The execs and marketing team sees them, goes wide eyed, freaks out and immediately has security throw them out of the party.
They wanted to make sure the journalists only talked to PR and random celebrities they hired, they did not want a journalist even knowing the name of a single developer.

The games industry is terrified of having "directed by X" being a selling point, because that means good developers will be able to throw their weight around.

>>717186330
Those are things game journos and youtube channels or podcasts should write about.
But then it gets twisted around so that places like even /v/ is on the side of publishers/suits.

>>717185261
>It's ridiculous, but that's the norm. If the company gets big enough, rivalry between teams and groups will happen eventually.
Didnt mean it like that, we arent competing against each other, we are cannibalizing each other.
We all take from the same small pool of competent people trying to get them to do something on one project or another, in reality dosnt matter which project succeeds, everybody will be funneled to it.
The problem is that none of them seem like they will make money, and with each month there is this sense of desperation in the air, everybody knows mass layoffs are coming, and just hoping "someone" will do "something" to fix it.

>>717185261
>How much time, money and motivation did this fail cost y'all?
No idea, we "made" 500 mln$ in 5 years, which includes previous game sells, investments and loans. Some went to pay off our previous liabilities and rest ... i guess spent on salaries and buying the large building we are in? The financial summaries we get are very vague with big numbers and few details. All looks nice on paper, but everybody knows our costs are not sustainable, and its only a matter of time before we run into the negative.

>>717152990
console generation, you gormless tallywacker

>>717153232
>and now AAAA devs
You had me until this.

>>717186785
>arent competing against each other, we are cannibalizing each other.
Same, really. At least least the result is the same - wasted resources.
>All looks nice on paper
The balance and the actual state the company is in have usually nothing in common

>>717183587
big kekkers fren
stick it to those roasted based HH

>euro hours
>interesting discussion about game development
>scroll down
>americans wake up
>its the jews

Everytime.

>>717152851
>Starting to think Bobby Kotick was right
Bobby Kotick planted the seeds. He just fucked off before the shitplants even got a chance to blossom

>>717166524
Kotick took over Activision in the 90s when it was pretty much bankrupt and built it into an extremely successful gaming empire from almost nothing.
Kotick knew what he was doing, and you are retarded for not knowing that.

>>717184629
>Pretty much, my new team manager is 22, has 0 industry experience, is from czech republic and barely speaks English and dosnt play vidya. And 50% my time is wasted explaining her what we even do and what Maya or unity even is and why i cant provide 20 animation sets a week.
How are people like that even hired? Is she just asking "did you think about increasing your productivity" as if it's constructive criticism?
Like I can look up how a job works in general, not that I'd understand what's going on immediately, just to get an idea of the work process. Shouldn't she be able to do that too and say "oh hey, this stuff takes time"

>>717184096
Larian isnt a small developer, over 2000 people worked on their games and they have multiple inhouse studios dedicated to working on one game. Bethesda is a small developer compared to Larian.

>>717152593
>westoids
Yeah, things like these don't happen to japanese companies like Level 5, right? Inazuma Eleven had been cancelled, renamed, changed and delayed so many times people from all around tge world (including japan) are calling the ceo a clown.

Reminder that quarterly reporting laws are the cause of all of this and they do not need to be a part of capitalism.

>>717187393
Kotick tried to get his foot into videogame business for some time back then.
He bought Activision because they were affected by the american videogame crash and they were desperate for a reconstruction.

>>717155469
You start funding games if you're so wise.

>>717184096
>larian
>small

>>717187121
we're the single most conquered country what do you expect, you smelly jew

>>717187393
He got away with it because the lower standard of hires then were significantly more competent then the ones he later pulled his faggotry with, and because the erosion of expectations HE STARTED hadn't set in by then.
You cocksuckers never get round to addressing the fact that the implosion of every studio under activision happened because of people he hired, or that he spearheaded every single anti consumer tactic common place today.
All he has to do is fire a bunch of retards that he hired in the first place and you faggots sing his praises.

>>717158393
>this is how retards think the world works
lmao

Kotick was based

>>717178518
Where are the right wing games?

>>717168828
>thing everyone else in the world does normally and doesn't complain about

LMAO. My pen is dropping at 4 PM flat and thats it. We have a fucking business contract with clear terms, not one of serfdom. Does my employer also give me randomly more money whenever I feel I might need it? Didn't think so.

>>717187818
>>717187502
I thought they had like 400-500 employees?

>>717187457
I can tell you in this case how she was hired.
It starts ... 4 managers ago. Our project lead was pregnant and had to hire replacement, didnt have time so hired someone she knew, he was alright he but strayed only for a year and quickly had hire another person, a woman ... who never worked in game dev.
She was ok, but after 2 years she was moved to another project and hired her replacment ... we asked for some game dev vet since we were tired of having explain everything from scratch and rebuilding structures every 1 or 2 years, she found someone like that, that person was to join ... then said no at last minute, our ex manager already left to new project and they quickly got who ever HR had in the "maybe" pile.

Now try working effectively during all that time. And imagine this level of rotation is going at multiple positions in multiple departments, and the worse things are going, the higher the turnover is.

>>717168828
People who work overtime usually get compensated for it and get go home.
Videogame industry crunch is (allegedly) on another level where you spend all your time in the office.
I think the only people that sleep at work are important workers like EMTs or firemen

>>717188181
Basically no boss?
What's stopping you from just making a game? Is it because everyone else is just fine with getting paid for nothing, does nobody want to actually do something?
Or does everything get tossed in the trash once the next manager comes in?

>>717187882
Who's to blame? Certainly not your elite?
>>717188070
600 iirc. 2000 means freelancers and hired companies aso

>>717168828
Overtime implies you actually get paid.

Crunch is not overtime, it's soulless jewish working moments where you do it for free and hardly get anything (besides getting fired)

>>717188070
yep, around 530 people

>>717188392
Money, likely.

>>717188392
>What's stopping you from just making a game?
No incentive to do it.
No matter if we do nothing, or not we are being paid, a lot. You have "kids" who are 19-20 make 50k+ with no education, experience, and managers making 100-200k$ for years.
And in that time you rather sit your ass doing nothing looking for another job, or ... to crunch and work hard?
Its not like a store, game devs have 0 contact with the consumer, most game devs despise gamers and treat them as walking wallets at best, as "racist incels" at worst. There is 0 incentive for people in game dev to actually release anything

>>717188943
>most game devs despise gamers
That's true and obvious, but why is this the case? Aren't devs gamers?

>>717189193
Gamers are the reason we are in this mess.