He needs a buff

He is weak but also he is gay and spy mains are the most annoying faggots on earth so I disagree

>>717844867 (OP)
play better games
like rivals

>TF2 Meta Discussion
>almost 2026

>open game
>team is 3 snipers and 4 spies
>pick spy
Yep it's gaming time

Spy should be able to fake-use various weapons. Like pretend to shoot a minigun, or pretend to heal you as a medic. As is there are only a few classes worth disguising as, because you'll be found out quickly due to your inactivity.

After playing tf2 classic custom weapons it's safe to say that the community can't balance weapons for shit.

Just remove the respawn teammate outline

do you wanna talk about the "meta" of decades old MUDs as well?
jesus fuck man move on

>>717844867 (OP)
Please increase his stock invis time by like 5 seconds yes I know le etranger exists but its such a short time if youre running stock, 9 seconds is not as much as youd think. And something like the eternal reward shortens it even further.
>>717845294
Also this.

>>717845294
this, lost count of how many times i killed an innocent spy just because he picked a bad time to disguise or go invisible, on top of that, whats even the point of that mechanic?

>>717844867 (OP)
Is the pyro airblast still not lag compensated?

>>717845556
Its useful to see where you should go as a medic or if you want to support your team in a fight by seeing whos getting shot. Or you can go where they arent to roam/flank

>>717844867 (OP)
I think all spy watches should be as loud as the dead ringer

>>717844867 (OP)
I don't think this is a controversial opinion. Not only is he useless in high level play, but even most casual players learned how to spot and avoid spies after a few years of the game being out. He's only good against retards now, unless you spend 10000 hours becoming an epic trickstab and ambassador god and then you gain the ability to actually do something in normal pubs (while still probably getting outfragged by an averagely skilled soldier main that spent 1/10th as much time as the spy actually trying to get good)

>>717845131
Agree, except for medic. Fake-healing as medic would be really really weird since it wouldn't actually heal you. I dunno, maybe it would fool inattentive players for like half a second and also help fool other nearby players looking at it?
Also I'm not sure how it would work with projectile classes. Would it spawn fake rockets? You'd see the enemy team taking no damage or knockback. Should disguised pyros be able to shoot fake flame particles? Meh.

It would really shine on scout, sniper and engineer though.

>even pretending balance patches are still something that could happen
>after they released the source code

>>717844947
Medic mains are the gayest.
Medic>Spy>Sniper>Pyro>Scout>Soldier>Engineer>Demo>Heavy
I didn't make the rules that's just how it is.

>>717844867 (OP)
no he doesn't. we already have plenty of spies running around like retards with the ONE good spy doing his job.

>>717844867 (OP)
increase damage resistance when disguised and even more when cloaked with non-dead ringer watches
let him mimic scout speed when disguised as one
remove outlines
make big earner only remove 20 hp

>>717844982
>>717845443
it's still one of the most popular games on steam by player count

>>717844867 (OP)
NO WAY NIGGA like 20% of games literally just devolve into 'can one team defeat the kunai autist with 5,000 hours played on the other team' and anyone who actually actively plays the game knows this - people on here seethe about sniper 24/7 but there are way more games where a spy is dictating everything about the game than a sniper

>>717844947
>spy mains are the most annoying faggots on earth
I wonder who could be behind this post

>>717846340
Game is heavily botted by item farmers

>>717846120
>have 0 offensive options besides popping uber
>dps is pitiful and you get juggled by m2 pyros or instagibbed by demos or soldiers
>scouts always steal your medkits from underneath your feet as you’re low on health and double jump out of line of your beam so you can’t even get SOME health back
>medics suck
????

>>717846120
Sniper and spy mains are 100% worse faggots than medic mains.

Spy should have no spread on his revolver and be able to throw his sapper
Change my mind

>>717846340
you can count the players on game servers and there's only 10-15k playing at a given time

>>717847302
yeah give me a no spread gun for 15% less damage and a trowable sapper for cooldown and im good

Problem isn't the class it's the players
Ex, you can easily topfrag in a pub by just repeatedly stabbing shitters. But those players weren't going to carry anyway, so you've completely wasted your time.

On the other hand, you can score literally 0 points and carry. Distracting snipers on the backline, forcing their pocket to turn around during a fight, etc.

Chain stabbing ghibus heavies does not win games.

>>717847302
>Spy should have no spread on his revolver
This

Is this thread better or worse than /vg/ ones?

>>717846410
Pure skill issue, I have gotten trickstabbed maybe like once in as far as I can remember. Only time I die to spies is when I'm distracted or during really sweaty matches when I actually have to full focus on my fights and the enemy team happens to have a spy with good tactical sense that knows when to backstab distracted players.
Kunai autists are only good for killing clueless retards for frag comps.

>>717846426
Pyro mains may be gay as hell but Spy players are absolutely the biggest, edgiest, most entitled faggots in the game anon

>>717848254
ill take the weeaboo edgelord over the diaper shitting tranny furry pyro any day

>>717848161
When a game is still active enough to have constant v threads, the vg thread will be 99% trannies, discord freaks and coolers. Applies to every game

Buff ambassador
delete damage distance fall off so I can one deag snipers from a far, similar to CS
Nerf his stupid frontstab and in return focus on his PRIMARY weapon. his revolver should be the strongest weapon in the game.

>remove spawn wallhacks
>fix disguise bugs
>make pressing R fake a reload for applicable disguise weapons regardless of what weapon you actually have out.

Rebalance mod when

>>717845531
You can stay perpetually invisible with stock watch if you know where to go for ammo packs and run a circuit. It’s fine as is.

>>717844867 (OP)
not really no
t. 6k hours, got invite 6s 3rd place and invite HL as engineer

>>717850491
Why not? He seems pretty useless if the other players know what they're doing.
In 6s he's literally only an offclass that works when the other team doesn't expect you to pick him. And in highlander yeah he's not nearly as useless, but his role is delegated to being a threat that requires the other players to deal with him, not actually carrying out on that threat.

And in pubs you can basically only frag retards, if you do something like duel someone around your own competence level you will pretty much always lose.

So why not a buff?

>>717845294
This is such a blatant "overwatch did it so we must too" feature it physically hurts me. Meet your match was such a shitshow man, what made valve so scared of overwatch?

>>717848293
>and coolers
What?

>>717850826
Spy gets instakills and preys on distracted players.
He excels at what the class was designed to excel at, you shouldn't expect to be getting 5k streaks unless youre farming off morons without ears in pubs.

>>717844867 (OP)
what kind of buff though?

>>717844947
True. I am a spy main and I am a massive faggot

>>717850826
spy's role in the videogame is already attained by how his class is designed.
Spy is countered by communicating players, true, but, the space that is created by requiring the enemy gamer to look around and spycheck (not exclusive to the pyro) is a force multiplier directly correlated to how competent your team is at using aforementioned created space.
The only theoretical buffs he could use are for "alternative playstyles" like gun spy (already fucking strong, 3rd strongest hitscan weapon at midrange).
spy mains that complain about the outline should rediscover the function that lets you disguise as someone on your own team, like a scout, so you dont pop up on the outline (only used when you want to kill someone straight out of their spawn).
in high levels, spy's scouting medic % and doing bullshit instakill picks by being a janky class backed by interp settings is more than enough to do his job.
it's okay for classes to have weaknesses. not everyone has to be able to achieve everything.

>>717851064
Yes but that's very niche. It's weird to have a class that just depends on the other players fucking up.
It's not even all that he was designed to do - the disguise kit was clearly meant to allow him to supposedly blend in even when spotted by other players. The problem is that in practice, disguises are very imperfect and players can very quickly learn to spot non-teammate behaviour so it's extremely hard to blend in. The fact that spychecking is practically free doesn't help.

Ergo, I don't believe he really does the job he was originally designed for anymore.

>>717851421
I have approximately 0 playtime in spy myself, but I can tell you that in pubs, spies are almost always just shitter cullers. Once in a blue moon a spy will actually help taking out the topscoring/carrying players, and it's immensely rare that a spy will actually be instrumental in deciding the final victory.
Yes, occasionally you see an epic spy main with enough hours in the game to actually be a threat, but almost any other class can be a threat with far less investment, and something like an epic scout main with an equivalent amount of no-lifing is ten times deadlier than said spy.

>in high levels, spy's scouting medic % and doing bullshit instakill picks by being a janky class backed by interp settings is more than enough to do his job.
That's fair enough I suppose.

All spies that backstab snipers should be killed irl

>>717846340
Fake numbers. Nobody cares about this game besides a few thousand autists.

>>717853079
36.190.151.214

I am waiting bitch.

>>717853007
a spy is always being useful, and his usefullnes isn't directly correlated to the scoreboard. that's why backstabs gets you 2 points per kill, to raise awareness of the player. The amount of time spent by people chasing the spy around cannot be counted anywhere.
a spy that gets a chainstab during the last moments of a push is always instrumental to a victory, and i've seen it happening so many times!
lets put it this way: spy as a numbers class is as efficient as the enemy team is bad, multiplied by how much they DONT communicate. a good player knows that spies that keeps killing gonzales2001 are vacuuming up how strong any team is, specially if they're using the kunai, then these players become walking healthpacks
in turn, the good player isn't stomping everyone else because he's looking around for the spy isntead of making plays. you can't quantify that type of influence
Spy is brilliantly designed, but it takes a bit of autism to understand why

He had one, it was called the enforcer and it turns out maybe people dont actually want the spy stronger.

>>717850491
>>717851421
>>717853403
damn there

>>717848254
I feel like snipers tend to be more entitled

>>717848292
even if they dont use the scorch or phlog?

>>717853403
I don't know what godlike spies you play with on your servers, but successful chainstabs on last-minute cart pushes are very rare in my experience, and also if you're the carrying player and you run away from the frontline to chase around a spy then you've got a major skill issue. In general it's very easy to kill a spy very quickly once you spot him if you're playing a power class, and even a kunai spy is easy to kill, he just takes 1-2 extra shots.

The only exception is if your team is 80% pablo gonzaleses and so a kunai spy can walk around with permanent 200 health and healing back to full even as you keep shooting him until 30 seconds later you finally kill him but your entire team has been stabbed and you've been 100% focused on the spy all this time. Yeah that's bad. But it really doesn't happen that often. Usually it's more like 2-3 gibuses get cleaned up out of spawn and everyone else is participating in a push, then if the spy walks up to the rest of the team the first competent player to spycheck him gets the kill and all the spy did was distract 1-2 players for 2-4 seconds or so.

>>717845294
I've learned to circumvent this by intentionally removing my disguise when I'm in weird places so it's not seen by spectators. Not a perfect solution of course

I'll never forgive Valve for fucking gutting the Ambassador as one of the final things they did before fucking off forever, because whiny compfag medic mains couldn't handle something that actually took skill. Meanwhile the total noob cannon named the Diamondback gets to exist in it's pure unadulterated form. The balancing on some of the unlocks in this game has always been baffling but the state it's in now and always will be now is so utter dogshit

>>717846120
False, all mercs are gay

>>717853842
worse, they use degreaser+flare

>>717850491
>>717851421
>>717853403
>"I PLAY COMPETETIVE RESPECT ME!!!!!!!"

>>717854004
i find it weird how most spies dont use it because its too broken on backstab or you cant finish off wary engies last bit of health off with it. default is more handy

>Countered by melee hitreg
>Countered by turning around
>Countered by turning an imperceptible amount
>Countered by chokepoints
>Countered by fire
>Countered by explosions
>Countered by random spread from a shotgun from across the map
>Countered by a player taking a slightly wonky path
>Countered by the very hitboxes of the game
>Countered by voice chat
And if you manage to overcome all these odds, you're rewarded with 1-2 kills before a trip back to the spawn queue.
Meanwhile I picked Heavy and went on a 7 kill streak without even trying before eating a sandwich and getting 7 more in the same amount of time it took for you to navigate behind the enemy team.

>>717846120
Wrong. No one is gayer than the Soldier main shooting at his feet to kill you with splash damage

>>717850952
It's completely irrelevant to overwatch, it happened for compfags and youtubers because they have zero situational awareness and spy is basically completely irrelevant in both major competitive formats.
>6v6 too fucking slow
>Highlander anyone out of position or running around while dead is immediately obviously the spy

>didn't even bother playing the summer update
I want to play the game, but also don't really give a shit. I'll just do some community server.

YER should be the only knife aside from the default one
kunai is anti-spy in its design and makes spymains obnoxous

>>717854403

>>717854595
skill issue, i suck at spy but regularly see spies top scoring and going for godlike killstreaks in pubs. even against the sweatiest tryhard teams they still manage to make game winning plays like backstabbing the medic or sapping the sentry at the perfect moment

>>717854680
All the new maps are dogshit and all the new cosmetics look like fucking shit, so business as usual. I just unqueued for all of the new stuff.

>>717854680
Even the snakes added in snakewater was more exciting.

>>717854707
The entire point of Spy is misdirection, continuously switching your loadout to mess with the opponent is part of it. While a combat-centric knife may seem at odds with his design it allows to play against the enemy's expectation

>>717854707
People who whine about the Kunai are retarded
>OH NO THE SPY HAS A MAXIMUM OF TWO HUNDRED HEALTH
>HE'S SO INVINCIBLE THAT HE...
>DIES FROM PRIMARY WEAPONS IN TWO SHOTS LIKE A NORMAL SPY....

>>717853079
snipers deserve spies

>>717854751
>top scoring
Because backstabs are worth 2 points.
>godlike killstreaks
Because they are either A. abusing the kunai/ringer and completely flying in the face of how spy was intended to be played or B. they are feeding off of fresh installs and mouthbreathers.

>>717854680
any good deathmatch servers? i jsut want to frag and chill

>>717854932
>Kunai backstab
Shoot him
>Kunai backstab
Shoot him again
>antonio.rodriguez2013 backpedals directly into him and gets backstabbed
Shoot him again
>Baits the most obvious cornerstab imaginable off of some soldier that decided to pull out his melee
Shoot him again
>Dead Ringer

>>717855038
i agree

>>717855053
read the second part of my post. also you can both abuse kunai/ringer and play spy how he was intended, in fact that's the most effective spy strategy. mix in extreme aggression with the situational awareness to occasionally deceive other players and you're practically playing sniper with extra steps. also all it takes is a single well-timed sapper and even the most pro player team gets screwed over. the only people that whine like a bitch about spies are the fresh installs and mouthbreathers like you that die to the oldest spy tricks in the book

>>717855249
>... but my hypothetical where the spy is frozen in the air and players are teleported in front of him and he's cheating and also he's wall bugging so he takes no knockback
Kill yourself.

>>717855380
>I have never had a bad team in a pub ever
You can just say you dont play the game and leave the thread, man.

>>717855380
>Feeding kunai spies never happens and also the spy wouldn't know how to damage surf

>>717844867 (OP)
>tfw he has the highest body count

in women

>>717855576
>You aren't engaging in my mentally ill delusion of everyone who uses something I don't like having god mode and STEALING kills from me?????
>You don't EVEN PLAY TF2 GET OUT REEEEEEEE

>>717855712
No. Thats scout.

>>717855762
he's like in his mid 40s he's fucked far more broads than scout has in his whole lifetime and he's french which are creatures known for being man whores

>>717855736
>The class that can one shot literally everyone in the game regardless of health or items can nearly double his health, making him tankier than the power classes, by backstabbing one dumbasses mexican child that hasn't even learned the controls yet
>There is literally nothing wrong with that

>>717844867 (OP)
>Sticky Jumper
Back to 8 stickies because it's funny. Let people pick up intel too, because that's also funny.
>Rocket Jumper
Let people pick up intel.
>Caber
Revert it; maybe increase the self-damage a bit
>GRU
Back to marked for death while equipped and after putting it away
>Thermal Thruster
Slightly faster item switch; maybe only for putting it away
>Shortstop
Holy shit, increase the reload speed
>Bison
Undo the "bugfix" and revert it
>Pomson
I don't know what the fuck to really do, but it needs something. Can't remember the last time I saw one in game.
>Ambassador
Just put it back. Maybe mini-crit headshots after a certain distance threshold. Spy really needs some love.
>B.A.S.E Jumper
Fuck compfag youtubers like Uncle Dane shitting on this, revert it. It was literally never a problem. Back to unlimited deploys and put the updraft from being on fire for good measure too.
>Air Strike
Slightly increased blast range.
Fuck, I miss the Jumper and Air Strike combo
>Eviction Notice
Why in God's name is there health drain on this damn thing? Holy shit, I remember this being a fun joke weapon way back when.
>Vaccinator
Tone down the resistances. Needs a big nerf, it just isn't fun to fight.
>Scorch shot
Remove the small stun and it's much more tolerable
>Baby Face's Blaster
Slightly less speed lost when you get hit. Just give scouts a little more wiggle room.
>Scotsman's Skullcutter
Funny as random crits are, it probably shouldn't have them
>Sandman
Best suggestion I've heard is just make it pair with the Cleaver. Make it debuff an enemy for a few seconds that makes it so the cleaver gets a guaranteed crit. Barring that, make it apply bleed and just copy the Wrap Assassin
>Buffalo Steak Sandvich
Remove/reduce the 20% increased damage penalty, ffs you're a melee only heavy for 16 seconds.
>Razorback
Remove it. Never should have been in the game and I can't believe Valve double-downed on it when so many other inoffensive items were fed to the wood-chipper.

>>717855908
And despite the headstart spy had on him, we know that scout has not only cum in a buncha women but had also decided to be a father to many children.
God put him on earth to fill wombs

>>717844867 (OP)
Make it so that you can backstab while invisible.

>>717854101
Wake me up when I start my posts with estimating the dick sizes of game characters.

>>717856221
>Best suggestion I've heard is just make it pair with the Cleaver. Make it debuff an enemy for a few seconds that makes it so the cleaver gets a guaranteed crit.
Wow, what a novel idea.

I dont understand why the watches even have a decloak noise. You cant run around alongside the enemy team without it being really obvious. You can't pop out of corners because that's also obvious, but also you will get hit by some random enemy fire. Spy's only way of getting into opportune positions is invisibility, and that's thwarted because your watch goes FFFHHLLLRRRRTTTBRAAAAP whenever you use it.

>>717855953
Nigger you might as well be saying soldier is broken because he could hypothetically perfectly bunny hop with the Market gardener with a quick fix medic and a Batallions backup soldier keeping him permanently immune to crits and taking half damage, your premise is so convoluted it's not even worth considering.
TF2 isn't a game where the spy has a "Immediately teleport an enemy gamer in front of me to backstab key for spy". and even if it were it wouldn't even matter if he was using the kunai or not you moron.
You could make the same retarded hypothetical about a scout throwing mad milk at your entire team and the spy stabbing them. Or a medic standing perfectly to full heal him with the crossbow every time you shot the spy.
It's a retarded pointless fucking dance around the fact you got mad abput an item in the game and you want Valve to ruin it for you.
You're a fucking moron, quit being shit at tf2 and get over it instead of crying that the developers need to "fix" the game because you lost.

>>717856221
make the pomson fire a hitscan laser with infinite penetration, instead of that slow ass janky moving laser. keep the 4 shots limit and the uber/cloak drain, and make the damage slightly better than a shotgun at mid-range

>>717856448
And?
If you don't like it, throw out something better.

>>717856532
do NOT make me relapse into my sonic autism again

>>717856579
That's literally what it used to do, newfag-kun.

>>717856639
if all it took was crossdressing knuckles, your weak willed

>>717856532
is that AI?

>>717856560
Kunai chainstabs aren't this mythical fringe case. If there is a spy using the kunai in the game, as long as they aren't turbo-shit as spy, they will get a huge chain of heal stabs at some point.

>>717856784
>your weak willed
yes____
>>717856841
judging by the out of place sweat marks and the nonsensical artist's signature, yes

>>717856958
>Um but I still lost at the ga
Retards like are why we got the first new flamethrower in six fucking years and despite being objectively worse than the shotgun people immediately cried that it was overpowered and got nerfed.
You're fucking retarded, kill yourself.

>>717856761
Yes, we all know that, Anon. What are you trying to say?
The suggestion was bring that back without any weird slow/stun mechanics.

>>717857104
>Spy self healing on backstab is actually good and balanced because I use it, fuck you

>>717857374
Nigger I don't even use it, it's a stupid gimmick item, I use all stock on spy, Big kill, enthusiast's time piece and sharp dresser.

>>717856579
NTA. The cleaver has always been good, even if you didn't use it with the crit gimmick. It having something conditional like minicrit on launched enemies like the reserve shooter could be amusing.
Sandman debuff should be annoying but not a free kill for any scout that doesn't have parkinsons. Make both the bat and ball just do knockback, it'll be funny like the loose cannon. Would even self enable slap + bean combos that send people flying.

>>717844867 (OP)
Buffing Spy would be impossible without making the game unfun to play. Any way to instantly kill someone needs kind of be shit in order for the game to not be a frustrating mess filled with people oneshotting each other.

>>717856221
We should give all these weapons bleed over time.

>>717854672
Outline is disabled in comp, though. This seethe makes no sense.

>>717844867 (OP)
And you need to MOVE
ON

>>717858210
>Um actually the competitive community totally actually dislikes 6v6 so how could you possibly say the update that came with it had anything to do with us
Fuck off nigger

they should unironically give heavy a fourth slot for lunchboxes. i doubt giving the slowest class in the game both a meatshot weapon and a sandwich would suddenly make him OP

My strat?
Sit and wait (with partner taunt up) in close spaces with direct hit + buff banner.

>>717844867 (OP)
I will accept a spy buff only if the dead ringer, the kunai and the diamondback are removed from the game and valve finally fixes their dogshit engine that enables him to run right at people and get an instant kill because the spy player is from pakistan

>>717858351
big true i agree, it'd make heavy a slightly more interesting class to play at the very least

>>717858351
I only want this to play fat scout.

>>717856221
>Sticky Jumper
No
>Rocket Jumper
No
>Caber
Disagree, caber was funny but seeing the same joke for years really wore its welcome
>GRU
Heavily disagree! Mark for death kills its escape utility.
>Thermal Thruster
Disagree, its balanced as is
>Shortstop
Agreed, also the reload animation should be changed, default animation scouts hand gets too close to the center of the screen
>Bison
Agreed
>Pomson
Disagree I kinds like it being a joke weapon even if it wasnt meant to be
>Ambassador
Agreed
>B.A.S.E Jumper
Agreed
>Air Strike
Disagree
>Eviction Notice
remove the loss health on equip lessen the damage penalty and fuck it give it a gunslinger style guarantee hit on landing 3 punches in a row
>Vaccinator
imo the uber rate is the only nerf it needs
>Scorch shot
YES
>Baby Face's Blaster
Agreed
>Scotsman's Skullcutter
agreed
>Sandman
Disagree! Just fix the movement bug
>Buffalo Steak Sandvich
Agreed, also allow players to end the effect early by swapping back to gun
>Razorback
How do you remove it? Like what happens to all the strange ones? Feels odd to remove it and not rework I mean its not OP, if any backpack should go its the danger shield

>>717856221
>>Scotsman's Skullcutter
>Funny as random crits are, it probably shouldn't have them

litterally the only reason to use it is to have a crit sword

>>717858351
The shotgun is as useful as a sandvich for heavy
>But he has a minigun
And in the time you ate the sandvich and started revving up I already shot you to death with a shotgun shitass
Fucking everyone in these threads are retarded and shit at tf2.

>>717858306
If this is the conclusion you came to, you need to take a break from this site.

>>717845294
The ONLY valid use for this is to show you which spawn exit has the teleporter. If they want to help noobs, the outline should show them the currently active point in CP matches, to stop retarded engineers from building at the first locked point they walk past.

>>717858351
Heavy should be able to carry two slightly different shotguns

The only buff he needs is the removal of the razorback

>>717858729
YOU HAVE A FUCKING GUN YOU RETARDED FUCK

>>717845294
They can keep it if theyre insistent but it should absolutely not show enemy spies if they arent in your line of sight.
Seeing a scout pop into your vision is a dead giveaway, same as seeing 2 of the same name off in the distance.
Just make it only show real teammates

>>717858779
IT MAKES NOISE. SPY IS AN ASSASSIN NOT A CRAZED GUNMAN

>>717858779
even with an amby/diamondback 1-2 if the sniper is camping a sentry you are going to get annihilated before you can actually shoot a sniper to death. spies gun also has dogshit spread so you need to be in fucking melee range to actually 2 tap someone which opens you up to sniper getting a 195 crit and 1 shoting you because sniper is always at an inflated crit rate from how much damage his gun does

>>717858993
>if the sniper is camping a sentry you are going to get annihilated before you can actually shoot a sniper to death
damn bro, they should give spy a way to deal with sentries

>>717858993
>hes near sentry
Use YER. Delete the engineer and sentry.
>my revolver aim sucks
The first shot is perfectly accurate and has a 1 second cooldown to having perfect accuracy again, just space your shots out instead of thinking you're a cowboy.
Also remember that the knife does 40 damage, 2 shots is usually enough to get the sniper to react and turn the razorback away from you.

>>717858993
>opens you up to sniper getting a 195 crit and 1 shoting you because sniper is always at an inflated crit rate from how much damage his gun does
Critical type damage isn't a contributor to the crit rate for recent damage dealt. Only the base damage is a factor.
It gets messy to keep track of but it's why sentries crank the crit rate on wrench a ton. Another important thing to know is that your crit bucket can only be spent by weapons that can random crit, so snipers primaries can build his crit rate but not remove any of it.

>>717859435
>>717859327
>the sniper will just not notice someone fucking up the sentry he's right next to
if they're this stupid you could've just played soldier and leveled the whole room in half the time because soldier/demo are the only classes sniper doesn't have an unlock explicitly to help counter

>>717858872
>It makes noise
https://files.catbox.moe/qrzlp3.ogg

>>717858993
>UMMM THE SNIPER IS AN ADMIN AND HE PUT A MILLION SENTRIES AROUND
EVERY FUCKING TIME WITH YOU FUCKING RETARDS.

>>717859327
and then the sniper notices you and either melee crits you or gets the fuck out, or the rest of the team notices you sapping and you die anyways

>>717858507
You could absolutely use the GRU for rollouts or escapes in its earlier form. The current max health drain is pure aids and is the biggest main reasons it sees such a low equip rate.

"Just fix the movement bug" doesn't make the sandman fun to use in it's current form or fun to fight against. People wouldn't suddenly flock to the sandman if the strafing thing was fixed.

The razorback is a ridiculous blow to one of Sniper's biggest counters. It has been and always was a poor addition to the game. Darwin's Danger Shield hard fucking pyro with the fire resist and afterburn immunity doesn't come close to how nonsense the razorback has always been, but that too is a weird one. The razorback in it's current form should've been trashed long ago.

>>717858779
"Use ur gun" is always the go-to excuse for fighting the razorback and it doesn't account for the sheer number of situations where that isn't feasible. If there are sentries or teammates around you straight up can't go for the kill. If you do go for a revolver kill, and teammates notice, you miss a shot, or the sniper turns around, you are in for a world of hurt.

Snipers can even turn around and plink you with a headshot if they're quick enough.

>>717859813
Yeah, that's pretty damn common. Especially when you're on BLU.

>>717859685
Most players are oblivious to the YER since they don't hear the crit death screams. Only attentive players will notice the knife impact sound.
Seriously, give the weapon a try. It is really good at infiltrating a nest of multiple engineers because they feel safer than they really are, at least until a pyro decides to start babysitting them.

>>717850491
This avatarfag nigga be flexing his TF2 hours in comp as if anyone gave a fuck

>>717844867 (OP)
Buff him to be tankier?
Buff him to be better at direct combat?
Buff him to be faster?
Any way you buff would just make him not need to use stealth at all.

>>717844867 (OP)
the average spy is a shitter, the 10k+ kills kunai/dead ringer spies are genuine cancer. You cannot kill them, just when you think he's low he gets a bullshit kill on a clueless teammate and now you're fighting a full health soldier again. A good sniper and spy can shutdown a lobby. I was playing fagtopia earlier because i was bored and were pushing on frontier right before the hill on second blu spawn. A faggot sniper was picking us off behind his team, and while we were focused on that, 2 faggot kunai spies with 10k kills were fucking us from behind. We genuinely had no choice. Game stalemated there despite us pushing the first point fairly easily

>>717854403

Monkey paw. Spy gets huge buffs, but the net netcode is refined so all "trickstab" techniques don't work anymore.

>>717859685
>>717859860
The issue here is that you're trying to take down two high-level players and a sentry nest single-handedly as Spy, in a hypothetical situation where you don't have a team to distract them. And until you can reliably do that, the class isn't "balanced" in your eyes.

Move the fuck on award

>>717860305
the issue is that spy wouldn't have to work so hard if the retarded sniperfags on the dev team didn't give him an unlock that actively defeats his hard counter

imagine if soldier had a pair of boots that made him immune to airblast rockets

>>717848254
>biggest, edgiest, most entitled faggots in the game
... but enough about Soldier mains.

>>717860538
Sure the problem is the razorback, not your hypothetical where the literal entire enemy team is guarding the sniper.

>I don't know what godlike spies you play with on your servers

>>717860538
They gave Spy an anti-Razorback item in the same update they added the Razorback. Get over yourself.

>>717844982
And It'll be here when you're gone too.

sometimes i remember that i deleted all my poker night items and get pissed at myself but then i remember that i did it to stop myself from ever playing this shitty game again

>>717858779
>stands next to a sentry with razorback
nothing personnel spyfag...

>>717846459
>Only five human beings actually play this game

>Sniper has Razorback
>Sniper is guarded by a Heavy
>Heavy is constantly revved up with his back to a wall
>Heavy has 4 pocket Medics with stock Medi Gun
>at least one Medic has 100% Uber at all times
Literally what is Spy supposed to do in this situation?

>>717860989
and now we circle around back to why there are way more situations where you can get away with a quick knife then multiple gunshots, so there's really no point in replying to eachother anymore.

a coordinated team working together so the spy can actually kill a sniper/engi duo would be even more effective if the coordinated team had or a soldier or demo instead, which is why spy is never played in comp. hope this helps.

>>717861461
Conga

>>717860989
And then they nerfed it so that it’s only effective against snipers at the range where sentries/melee crits/whatever can kill you.

>Meta Discussion
Please refer to the official tier list

>>717861461
sv_cheats 1

>>717861665
Can confirm, I only play Soldier because I can't reliably land pipes

>Spectate and ally playing spy
>Heavily disabled people constantly turn their back to him, don't notice when someone next to them is stabbed, walk directly at him, never hear the uncloak, and believe any disguise he puts on
>Play Spy
>Sniper decides to randomly shoot and headshots me while invisible, Medics are physically unable to look away from me, hit registration turns 70% of backstabs into butter knifes, and every single person changes their movement just enough to bump into me constantly

>Is a direct upgrade to it's stock counterpart
How did they get away with it?

>>717861912
None of the retards that care about balance actually care about balance so literally nobody cared about the Uncle Dane Direct Upgrade Gun Specifically Put In The Game For Him But You're Literally Hitler If You Say Youtubers Or Compfags Have Anything To Do With "Balance Updates" Or How Retarded They Are

>>717861665
how the fuck is scout a situational assassin?

>>717862108
Guess there not being sentry guns is technically a situation.

>>717861912
>fixed spread
wow, op
>shoots in a comically wide pattern that means unless you have it up someones asshole you're going to miss so many pellets you end up doing less damage then stock shotgun unless your random spread is really unlucky

it sucks

>>717862108
Scout and Sniper are rather map and situation dependent considering heavy and demoman out duel them unless those assassin classes can ambush them in an open space and things only get worse with a medic healing demo/heavy. In a defense situation with sentries forget about scout. In a map without wide open spaces forget about sniper. Scout is only good in 6v6s because of class limits, item bans, low player counts btw. Without class limitations you would see shit like 2-3 medics with 2-3 demoman.

>>717860989
>pushing for unlock dependancy
Funnily enough it's also around the same update that made obtaining items completely luck based.

Valve basically went "here's a sniper item that fucks you, wanna counter his counter? hopefully you'll be lucky enough to get it!".

>>717862309
he first shot has a normal pattern, just hold w while you're shooting to close the distance, or better yet use it to combo like it's meant to do. direct hit + reserve shooter is brutal, you can two-shot people way quicker and more reliably than having to land two direct hit rockets. that or degreaser + reserve shooter

>>717862514
Nigga I'll trade you an amby for 1 scrap if you want one so bad

>>717862661
Nigger I'm talking about back then.

>>717854403
I love how this nigger comments like 90% of the posts on the tf2 subreddit, holy shit get something else to do with your life

>>717845131
when you reload your revolver in a disguise, your disguise also reloads.

>>717862785
>reloads paper mask

>>717861912
>shit damage at medium range
no

>>717862514
Except the Ambassador is also an achievement item, you absolute fucking retarded gorilla nigger. Free to play was a mistake

>>717862309
>Shoots in a- uh... shit.

>>717862851
Except nigger.

I was talking about back then.

Because Valve initially didn't have the spy/sniper weapons be unlockable through achievements. Yes F2P was a mistake it seems.
>but that was one week
Yes valve pulled that shit on spy players for one week.

>>717844867 (OP)
We should not just bring back the ambassador but make it not lose accuracy each hit and it does 300 every headshot but no damage for body shots

>>717863123
>UM THESE ITEMS DIDN'T HAVE MILESTONES FOR A SINGLE WEEK 9 YEARS BEFORE I STARTED PLAYING
So why are you complaining?

>>717845294
No I like it, plus if I'm spawn camping as a spy I usually don't have disguises on anyways because they're pretty useless

>>717863393
Because unlike you, who doesn't remember the weapons initially not being achievable, I was playing back then.

>>717863123
>developed a victim complex over a 7-day period of unreliable item drops in 2009
wait until you find out about item set buffs

>>717863596
Clearly you weren't otherwise you'd realize how fucking retarded of a statement you just made is. Which is why you'd say something so retarded.

>Arguably the highest skill floor weapon in the entire game
>Is the second worst revolver option for Spy

>>717844867 (OP)
>TF2 medigun is designed in a way that you can focus on dodging while tethering to your teammates
>TF2C devs think making a medigun that you're forced to tunnel visioning to your teammates is a good idea

>>717844867 (OP)
I got a better idea, make it so he catches fire again for using the crutch ringer instead of being invulnerable to flames and getting a speed boost for a limited time.

>>717845443
You may not like it, but Team Fortress 2 is still the most fun you can have online.

>>717863716
Nothing I have said is incorrect. You're the dumbass who tried to accuse someone of being f2p while showing he didn't know the weapons weren't immediately achievable.
>>717863667
Yes valve fucked up a great many times. Why are we not allowed to call them out on it?

>>717846120
Weird Engineer is so low. You'd think not actively fighting most of the time would make you more gay.

>>717863879
Nah I've had way more fun jacking off to porn.

>>717861461
>5 players doing nothing but babysitting one sniper
spy has already won

>>717863887
Nigger you're trying to repaste the le pay to win shit onto the sniper vs spy update shit for an update you weren't even a participant of, since, if you were, you'd know people were getting buried in backburners hats and blutsaugers.
Shut your Post meet your match faggot ass up.
>inb4 look at someone's alt I bought because I didn't know that people did that shit 4 years before I sarted playing too

>>717861461
Play demoman and tell his medic gf to krit him to send a crit sticky across the map.

>>717845443
>>717864015
>look at board name
>/v/
>checks out

>All rocket/grenade/sticky launchers:
>-5% explosion radius
>-10% damage

>>717863741
and then in tf2c they make a op unlock where you heal multiple teammates and uber them for a brief moment

>>717864080
>for an update you weren't even a participant of
Again, that's going to be the one of the two of us who wasn't aware the weapons weren't immediately achievable. That's you.

How hard is it to admit that bringing up the f2p accusation was a mistake when you couldn't even get the details right?

>>717864440
>UM ANON, IF YOU'LL CONSULT THE WIKI I
A. I'm not the first person you were talking to
B. Anyone can read the wiki and make themselves look fucking retarded like you.
C. FUCKING CALLED IT.

>>717864614
A. Then you should be accusing the anon who got it wrong of not being there idiot
B. Then why did the anon get it wrong?
C. Lol wut? The fuck are you going on about?

>>717864214
>mooooom demoman blew up my toys again

>>717864815
You got it wrong because there was an average of ~2 hours before you get a drop (Based on the average session a tf2 player played back then)
It's a basically irrelevant detail, like knowing that basically everyone back then would maybe tops have 9 items including duplicates of the former class updates.
I knew exactly how you were going to try and play this shit because retards like you have been doing this for 11 years.

>>717853403
>my entire accomplishment is making someone look behind them for 0.1 seconds
WOOOOOOOOOOW
what a fucking clown

>>717865226
The fuck are you going on about?
>You got it wrong because there was an average of ~2 hours before you get a drop
That doesn't disprove anything I said.

>>717845443
Why the fuck not?
Just because (You) don't play the game anymore, no one can talk about it anymore? What the fuck are you even trying to say?

>>717864214
>pipes unable to 2-tap a scout with overheal
>pipes unable to 3 shot a heavy
>double-donks no longer able to 1-shot light classes
you seem upset about something, lad.

on a scale of "reasonable" to "fuck you" how decent of a long heater rework would this be?

>>717865453
>UMMM UM I'M A REALLY FOR REAL OLDFAG ENEMY SNIPERS HACKED THE ITEM DROP SYSTEM TO STOP ME FOR ONE WEEK SINCE I COULDN'T GET THE AMBASSADOR AS A DROP THIS IS A VERY REAL COMPLAINT THAT SOMEONE WHO DEFINITELY DIDN'T JUST TRY TO USE THE WIKI TO SOUND LIKE AN AUTHORITATIVE SOURCE TO DEMAND THE RAZORBACK GETS RUINED NOW WOULD DO

>>717865661
Saying it again, what the fuck?

>>717865531
>What the fuck are you even trying to say?
It's a ritualpost, anon. It only exist to farm (You)'s and nothing else

>>717865646
>launch to an enemy's face
>they immediately die from the fire ring + damage bonus on afterburn
Congratulations, you've made Heavy's most OP primary

>>717865646
Retarded. The Heater's already one of the better miniguns.

>>717865646
Hey buddy, this is team fortress 2 not DOTA 2. Keep your over complicated stat cluttler bullshit away from this old dead game.

>>717865646
heavy's lack of mobility is kind of the point of the entire class. turning him into a fucking hunter makes no sense
really what they ought to do is just rip off the Burning Hell overclock from DRG so the fire is where he's pointing at instead of around his feet.. The weapon has an identity problem, not a "heavy needs to be buffed, guise" problem.

>>717844867 (OP)
I've been saying for years you JUST have to do ONE THING:
make every single pistol shot highlight enemies hit by it to your team for a few seconds.
Effortless coordination, encourage gunspy, gives a new buff/nerf option for weird guns like enforcer, the code to do it is already in the game and used every match, and fits the theme of the character perfectly.

>Uber is split up into 4 Bubbles you can choose from, being effectively invincibility for either Buller/Explosion/Fire damage (If you want to take down a Big Earner Spy with stock grenades, it's now actually impossible because each grenade deals 25 damage and the spy is being constantly healed, when normally it only takes 1)
>Instead of 2 seconds for each uber you'd think you'd get, you get 2.5 seconds of uber, meaning a full Uber is 10 seconds
>But wait, you can charge Ubers while using Uber too
>On top of that, the standard Uber charging rate is +67% and +12% when you're being overhealed because fuck you too
>This means to make a single bubble, you need to heal a patient for 6 to 9 seconds depending on their HP
>This actually means with the right HP, you can get 15 seconds of fucking Uber, nearly double the amount of fucking Uber all mediguns get
>And at 15 seconds you're half way there to a 7th bubble too
>Keep in mind, this is basically fucking invincibility. 75% damage reduction while being healed is practically impossible to kill with the corresponding damage type.
>The "counters" are either not counters (hoping your opponent is a fucking retard) or things that would counter everything (managing to get into a 12 v 2).
>Oh and on top of all this shit, you can cap while using the Uber
>This weapon is so disgustingly overpowered that competitive players who play in the no weapons ban meta, basically TF2's version of Ubers from Pokemon, competitive players are begging to have the no-bans meta ban the Vaccinator

>>717844982
>game is gonna be 20 years old soon

Am I ever going to be able to play plr_pipeline again or is it gone forever?

Give Heavy a Primary slot Riot Shield that soaks 500 damage

Give Heavy Secondary slot Ammo Box that gives players 2 medium ammo boxes

>>717865646
This feels like a custom community weapon, like does Heavy need a lunge attack on his minigun?

>>717866306
As long as you aren't a million subscriber youtuber you shouldn't have any problem inviting some friends to play a game.

>>717866315
>Give Heavy a Primary slot Riot Shield that soaks 500 damage
It's funny how robin walker talked about that "brick wall" 10th class that shounic added when it really does just sound like a heavy subclass.

>>717865646
Just give hoovy a spicy taco as a lunchbox item that applies afterburn and give it a long as fuck cooldown, shrimple as

>>717866124
you forgot that the bubble stays on the patient even when disconnected, so not only is the effective healing of the vaccinator better than the quick-fix's megaheal, you can also just crank things up even more with an item with burst healing that does not care about the healing ramp or healing debuff that flamethrowers apply.

>>717844867 (OP)
Make the watches quieter. Allow the spy more freedom when reloading and switching weapons while cloaked. Make his speed 110%

>>717866315
>>717866546
>shield that soaks 500 damage
It's called the fists of steel lol

>>717866732
Nah FoS is weaker than that.

>>717866124
>>717866646
>BANG! BANG! BANG!

>>717866885
based, also great to deal with cancer wrangled sentries, engies never expect it

>>717866885
a gunspy isn't going to be doing shit about a medic patient combo, it's not like he has permacrits to actually put them into lethal range.
he'd have more luck running straight at them and hoping for a facestab

>>717866970
>I WANT EVERYTHING ABOUT THE VACCINATOR OFF THE INTERNET NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!
I LOVE YOU KITCHEN GUN!

>>717866315
Give the Heavy a helmet to force Snipers to shoot him twice. Fuck Snipers. They get a anti-spy shield so no bitching.

>>717844867 (OP)
they need to remove spy and sniper
crutch classes that have no space in the game

>>717867247
Spy actually takes skill.

Just play as gunspy
It's crazy op as long as you can aim

>>717866124
yeah, but this thing is useless against large, diverse groups

>>717867413
>only the first bullet has reliable aim and after it's rng if you land your shots
no thanks

>>717867775
>The game stole my kills from me I'm not bad!!!

>>717867775
stop panicshooting

>>717867858
just admit the revolver is a glorified shotgun, if you're not at close range you're missing 60% of your shots because of bullet deviation. or good luck killing anyone by spam reloading the revolver to get that guaranteed accurate first shot
>>717867923
>stop experiencing stress and adrenaline in the game about experiencing stress and adrenaline
sry i'm not numb and desensitized

>>717867993
>I can't hit anything with the shotgun either worship me as a master of skill and authority over what needs to be changed in the game

>>717867775
the spread is annoying but stock revolver can still do work if your aim is on point.

>>717867775
>accidentally shoot a little to the left
>bullet veers to the right and kills
I UNDERSTAND THE BULLETS, YOU SEE. I MAKE THEM GO WHERE I WANT THEM.

>>717868089
i never said anything should be changed. the revolver is just a weaker shotgun, you're better off playing rocket jumper shotgun soldier, that'd be more effective than playing gunspy.
>>717868140
there's horrible accuracy deviation starting at mid-range and even at close-range, how delusional are you? gunning down a razorback sniper when you're at armpit-smelling distance is one thing, being in an active 1v1 against any full health class is another

>>717867302
the skill of an infant with a skin condition maybe

>>717868291
honestly based and the only right answer

Spy would be annoying if he wasn't shit, but they should make his mechanics less janky. Being able to "fire" fake guns to blend in with his class would be a good start. There should be an option, possibly an unlock, to allow you to disguise as a novel player instead of a specific member of the enemy team. Amby should be un-nerfed. Disguising should not throw off smoke particles while you are in the process of becoming invisible. A building should need a second to become active again when the sapper is removed.

>>717866885
>Shoot
>Do some damage to the Medic or Heavy
>Heavy immediately turns to you and guns you down instantly
>>717867414
And you know what else gets countered by large groups of enemies? Literally fucking everything. No matter what, if you’re outnumbered by 6 to 1, you’re not winning that exchange no matter what. Best you can do is run away or take down some enemies with you.
The Vaccinator is actually unique here since bubbles are so cheap you can pop a few to stand your ground for longer. Only Stock can contest a scenario like that and only after building up Uber for 40 seconds (assuming you’re building it the most effeciently).

>>717868294
>there's horrible accuracy deviation starting at mid-range and even at close-range, how delusional are you
this is roughly the range where you can hit 100% of your shots regardless of spread. revolver does 36 damage to the shotguns 16. you can easily juke spam from this distance and outrange most classes.

gunspy is my favorite spy loadout and you can pubstomp with him as long as they don't have a good medic or scout. he's still needs some buffs though.

>>717844867 (OP)
>Needs a buff
>has the single most powerful basic attack in the entire game
>the only class that can literally cheat death
>already buffed to hell by pyro's afterburn nerf
No he fucking doesn't. Spy is so hard because it needs to be to balance its enormous power. They are fucking annoying to play against cause when you get a good enough spy, they can find a hitbox to backstab you from literally any angle, even if you track them dead center of your FOV. If they fail they just disappear with the dead ringer or the one million HP they already farmed from an AFK heavy. Even just having one uncloak within earshot is enough to fuck you over since you now have to decide between maintaining your focus on the firefight you're engaged in and getting backstabbed, or dying to the firefight because you turned to deal with the spy.

I'm not sure what planet you have to be on to think it needs to be buffed. There is no room for increase in his skill ceiling which is already knocking on heaven's gate, and he has no business being made any easier since his skill requirement is the sole mitigating factor to this class that is otherwise the bane of everybody else's existence. So in what other way could you possibly buff it?

>>717865661
the razorback should get ruined, it's such an obviously retarded item. imagine if heavy had an unlock where he has a helmet that deflects 1 headshot back into the snipers scope and then he can't zoom in for a while, there's be riots but because it came out in 2009 its just something we have to pretend hasn't always been a fucking stupid idea

>>717866885
>make revolver that can pierce damage resistances
>make it only have a damage bonus while disguised(so once) and give it a slower fire rate meaning it has worse DPS than stock.
literally just make the damage bonus constant again in exchange of -10% cloak on hit or something and you'd have a gun that counters 90% of the cancerous shit in this game

>>717869260
this is also the range where every other class rapes sniper in a 1v1 because their gun does more damage and/or is easier to hit with

>>717869639
Wrong, sniper kills instantly from any range.

>>717869589
I can't hear you over the "two most overpowered things in the game" getting completely fucked because I pressed B

>>717869589
the damage increase is enough to 2 shot important classes that will actually be looking at you when it comes to the situation where you need your gun
it also shits on DR kunai spies so that's a hilarious bonus, the extra damage works with friendly disguises too

>>717869589
Sniper mains were complaining they were getting twotapped by the enforcer so they completely nerfed it
Same reason the ambassador is nerfed
>A counter for the razorback? nooooo

>>717869881
the old enforcer was a damage bonus active at all times (you could even make an undisguise bind mapped to M1 so you'd never not have it active), paired with the cancer that was the pre-nerf dead ringer
sniper was getting 2-shot both before and after the nerf. it was every other class that was complaining about it

>>717869639
just quickscope lmao

>>717855359
>the only people that whine like a bitch about spies are the fresh installs and mouthbreathers like you that die to the oldest spy tricks in the book
5k hours opinion here. i main medic, scout and heavy in rotation. spy is a non-entity to me as scout since im always moving at speed. as medic i use spies to farm ubercharge and it's pretty easy to avoid their tricks and swerves with the movement speed i have. sometimes i get too greedy and pay the price but that's my own fault.
as heavy though, some of those "trick"stabs are literally unavoidable, especially with your minigun already spun making you largely immobile. if you're swerving me side to side waiting for the game to grant you a hitbox while looking me dead in the eye, while sporting a ton of HP you farmed with the kunai, all you've done is you've used an attack that has no viable defense. what's frustrating is that i know on the spy's screen it looks to him like he's feinted in one direction and juked me to reach my back, but on my screen he has not left the center of my FOV for a single frame, so the reality is there is no "tricking" going on in that scenario, it was only made possible because the two players are not sharing a 1:1 representation of the game world.

>>717865808
>>717865850
My main “logic” was basically that outside of cooperating with a friendly pyro the only time you’re going to notice that damage bonus is at close range. Problem is you’re the slowest fucking class in the game and your gun eats ammo just from existing… ergo the solution would be to have a way to quickly get up close and utilize that ring. But yeah the “ring increase from falling” is just stat bloat and could be removed

>>717865646
Sounds “balanced” until Gabe’s densest F2Ps feed the enemy heavy’s meter and he just corner charges you repeatedly

>Havn't not turned on steam for years
>Had some unusuals and a HOUWAR collecting dust in my backpack.
>Check steam just because
>Have a bunch of phishing friend requests

>>717871549
I fucking hate that shit. I just privated my profile because I was so fucking sick of getting tradefags and bots adding me for my shit.

>>717871549
Post hats, if you have any I like I'll give you a fair price

>>717868475
>literally fucking everything
I think that's the point, nothing is really overpowered when you have teams of 12-16 with random compositions. Competitive teams with lower player counts suffer more but I've never really felt a weapon was OP when playing on a 24 player server unless the enemy is stacking 3-4 of them which rarely if ever happens

TF2C is exhibit A against letting retarded TF2 players balance TF2
>bro let's give heavy a midrange hitscan burst damage explosive weapon
>b-b-but it's fine because... he still has to rev it up!

>>717871937
>let's add scrapped weapons back into the game!
maybe there's a reason they're scrapped

>>717845531
Did you know that the cloak and dagger's cloak time wasnt updated with spy's movement speed buff so it drains faster as a result?

Also buff pyro too. Give him either more health or quicker movement speed. 205 health or slightly above default movement speed.

>>717872028
I fucking knew the CnD drained faster I thought I was schizophrenic

Remove the Skullcutters ability to random crit. Medieval mode is always swarming with demo's using it as a crutch, bum rushing the point and praying for a random crit which they will in all likelyhood get. Good players should be able to outmaneuver them in open spaces but it would still have the niche of being one of the best weapons to brawl with on the point

>>717866124
Ok here’s how I’d fix it be at least reasonable
>Remove ability to capture objectives while players are Ubered
>Have Uber meter drain slowly when using Uber like with the other Ubers so you can’t build Uber while using the Uber
>Each bubble lasts 2 seconds each
>You build Uber at the same rate as stock
>Each uber bubble only reduces damage by 50% now and isn’t immune to crits
>The Medic using the Medigun now has a 25% damage vulnerability to the unused damage types besides Melee

>>717865646
Huo Long Heater is already a decent minigun.

>>717871995
Clearly the community knows best and Valve has no idea what they're doing.
I've heard these retards say vanilla TF2 doesn't playtest weapons, like holy fuck how up your own ass can you be.

>>717872275
yeah, the heater is basically the payload meta

>>717866885
They should buff it so it's always dealing +20% damage bonus against anything that triggers the pierce.

Buff Spy's movement speed to 115% so he can actually catch up to people to backstab them.

>>717872151
No, jester kike on a stick

You can't balance TF2, the players are just too good. Valve structured the game around different things being more powerful, but balanced by being harder to pull off. And then everyone played for ten thousand hours. It's like their biggest mistake. They thought they were making a silly shooter people wouldn't play for decades and hyper optimize.

The only way to balance tf2 would be to either fuck around with the basic structure of the game to the point that everyone's muscle memory was wrong and they had to relearn it all over again, or if they just gave you mouse jitter and reversed input every ten seconds if you had more than a thousand hours.

>>717872151
No thanks, take your zatoichi and shove it up your ass, solarlight dickrider
Demoknights don't even use the eyelander anymore after he made that stupid fucking video.

>>717872028
CnD is capped at +50% higher comsumption at max run speed. The higher base run speed change nothing.
t. read the source code

>>717871629
I'm not going to sell since I don't trust third party sites and don't want gabe's monopoly money. But I am proud of this sunbeam slug combo I came up with.

>Reduce his respawn timer so that dying as him doesn't feel so punishing
or
>Extra mobility to open more paths for sneaking around the map and more assassination opportunity, but nothing to crazy (something like wallclimb in VSH)
And a mandatory >>717845294

>>717872597
Well it looks good, it's worth about $300 if you sell it

>>717872336
>vanilla TF2 doesn't playtest weapons
depending on context, that's absolutely true
>crit a cola went from idea to implemented in a single afternoon
>almost the entirety of scout's unlockable weapons were never considered how they'd perform in the hands of a good scout, to which Robin Walker admit to being a mistake that they had to walk back every time
>some mechanics have literally never worked, like the shortstop's stopping feature, it was quietly removed from the item's description with no fanfare
TF as a series has a lot of stuff that exists purely because of throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. The difference between QTF/TFC and TF2 is that we got to see just how batshit of a design pipeline that is. It's almost a miracle how much you can distort the game with brazenly overpowered bullshit and it still mostly self-regulates itself and plays really well due to it having a strong core foundation.
It's like a really malleable but still firm molding clay

Also I heard they nerfed the fuck out of the degeaser + reserve shooter combo since pyros are not allowed to have fun.

>>717872961
it's still bis for countering soldiers if you hate them

>>717872961
reserve shooter never belonged on pyro, especially not while the airblast was a stun. be glad that you get to keep it to specifically shit on jumpers.

>>717873042
Everyone but soldier players hate soldiers. Same with Demoman and Sniper.

>>717844867 (OP)
He might need some QoL
>no longer appears on enemy team's respawn wallhacks when disguised
>add a toggle to swap to Spy's original speed while disguised as a slower class (like TF2C has)
Maybe a couple other things
Other than that I don't see what he needs, most of his problems come from Sniper existing and doing his job more safely

>>717873151
Thank God for Natascha.
Holy mother of rage if I dare to equip that thing.

>>717872151
why in the flying fuck would they balance a weapon around a meme mode

>>717858535
For me, it's using the shotgun to flinch snipers, because some asshole decided the minigun was too OP.

>>717873065
Niggers really honestly cry that they couldn't immediately counterstrafe literally ALL pushforce from an airblast 8 years after it even could do that.

>>717873284
The minigun flinching resistance code was absent prior to 2012. I have no idea which Valve employee silently added it.

>>717873230
Great question, we should ask Valve why they snapped the sandman in half and pissed into BONK! because it "broke" 6v6

>>717872749
Neat, does the Russian mafia still use earbuds to launder their money?

>>717872539
learn to charge properly so you don't need a 40% chance to one shot 8/9 of the classes in the game faggot. And I play medieval regularly and eyelander is still around, just overshadowed by scullcutter like everything else.

>>717873216
Heavy is the most honest and fair class and nobody hates them.

>>717873230
>why in the flying fuck would they balance a weapon around a meme mode
buffalo beef sandvich
warrior's spirit

>>717873872
A single backstab is more satisfying than even a 10 kill streak as Heavy. He's too easy.

>>717873820
No, earbuds tanked completely, it's all keys now

>>717873679
To be fair stun mechanics are inherently cancerous. The only reason the holiday punch is tolerable is because if your stupid enough to let the slowest class in the game do a bootleg backstab on you, you deserve what happens next.

>>717873872
I've only ever heard Heavy or Demo players refer to Heavy as "honest"
not that it's an inaccurate term, but it's usually them trying to promote some image of wholesome and chill demo/heavy mains, or like their kit's so much more basic and straightforward than, say, stock Scout

>>717873836
I know how to charge properly, but it's fucking fun to play the skullcutter, and it's my favorite melee since its a big ass axe. maybe get off solarlight's dick instead

Meta threads are not allowed

>>717873679
Sandman hard counters heavy too hard imo.
They should keep the sandman as it is now and just keep the cleaver crit gimmick since it already used to crit slowed enemies.

>>717873872
He’s also the most one note of all the classes. for weapons and subclasses he has
>the stock minigun
>stock but better in nearly every way
>stock but your slightly better at close range
>stock but you can’t move
>stock but fuck scouts and soliders
>a meme subclass that’s just ignoring your primary
>a subclass that’s just demoknight but objectively worse
For fucks sake valve at least do a rebalance update to make heavy’s current kit SLIGHTLY more varied

>>717856221
I unironically want the stun ball for the Sandman back, the issue to me isnt the stun effect itself, rather that ramped up it lasted way too long and the ball was too easy to land. Either cut the duration of the stun effect in half so that a close up ball either doesnt stun or stuns for like half a second or make the ball have a much slower travel speed, like, as slow as the Pomson's shitty projectile, the current ball feels as fast as a Huntsman arrow.

>>717874831
Kind of fucked up they put in a melee heavy subclass that wasn't great and then nerfed it so hard people don't even use it for funnies. I totally forget he even had all that shit. Like four different weapons/utilities with zero purpose.

>>717860979
Is he still making Fortnite videos
>>717875175
I find it insulting Valve even takes a meme like "heavy going around with his fists out" so seriously that they hit him with the worst nerfs ever for trying that shit. What did the slowest class in the game with below average melee swinging speed on nearly all his melee weapons do to deserve so many damage vulnerabilities?

>>717874295
its your favorite because you can't fucking walk without that crutch gay boy. If you want to random crit people just run bottle, that at least doesn't oneshot almost everyone and doesnt come with the stench of shame of being seen using training wheels in public

>>717875175
at some point they got it in their fucking heads that almost everything in the game that wasn't stock needed to be abysmal dogshit with no reason to ever be used even for memeing, except for the things where it is allowed to be objectively better than stock (escape plan, ubersaw, powerjack) because the mains for those classes are all fucking crybabies

>>717875498
>ubersaw
It was set to be OP on purpose because nobody wants to play medic otherwise.

>>717875498
To be fair to medicfags they literally only have ONE good primary and melee that isn’t just for memeing

>>717866124
>>This weapon is so disgustingly overpowered that competitive players who play in the no weapons ban meta, basically TF2's version of Ubers from Pokemon, competitive players are begging to have the no-bans meta ban the Vaccinator
Compfags have already done far too much damage to the game, I am going to ignore everything else in your post for this last line

>>717866124
>can’t cap while ubered
>can’t build Uber while shield is out
>add a 1 second delay between bubbles
>make the grordbort weapons ignore resistances to be somewhat useful
Problem solved

>>717864420
>How do I hide the fact the weapon is awful to use compared to any other medigun
>Oh I know, halo bubble shield

>>717844867 (OP)
HOW TO BUFF SPY:
>Make him no longer shimmer
>Make him lose collision based on what the enemy team sees him as (i.e. if a spy on your team is transformed, you will collide with him and phase through enemies)
>Allow him to shoot and reload weapons of classes he's disguised as (not actually damage anybody but shoot and reload disguise weapons as a fakeout)
>Make all Revolver shots that remove disguise a crit
>Give him an alternative sapper that prevents equipment from working for seven seconds or until the Spy dies (but does not damage the equipment and makes it have a Wrangler shield for the duration)
>Give him a new disguise kit that allows him to run at the selected disguise's speed but has some other downside like a cooldown on using a disguise after losing it
Wa la. He's perfect now.

>>717845443
No. I never will. I endure just to spite you. I despise you.

>>717876641
sounds horribly overpowered desu

>>717876641
>if a spy on your team is transformed, you will collide with him
I can think of several reasons why this is a bad idea.

>>717876641
I think making a class 24/7 viable ruin the point of having class system in the first place.

>>717876641
>Make all Revolver shots that remove disguise a crit
What the fuck is wrong with you

>>717844867 (OP)

>>717875175
Compfags pissed themselves over heavy’s using the steak to reach the objective slightly faster (ignoring the fact that they’re still sacrificing a shotgun or healing lunchbox for fucking BRAWLER heavy) so valve in its infinite wisdom decided to ruined it for everyone else. Also the eviction notice got gutted because some genius thought that a melee weapon with COMBAT positives should have a health drain

>>717873065
>reserve shooter never belonged on pyro, especially not while the airblast was a stun.
Puff and sting was never overpowered.

>>717877831
If only there was a class with the ability to reflect projectiles as one of their main abilities…

>>717878269
That doesn't count because Pyro is the weakest class because he just is

>>717878269
hardly works against demo

There are three levels of Spy
>Useless
>Fresh install devourer
>Break the game
One of which is useful.

>>717877520
>>717877440
It's still situational. Just not abysmally weak. Not overpoweringly strong either.
The only ones who'd complain about this are Sniper mains but they're not human anyway so who cares about them.

>>717878528
Weak classes getting one-shot by a disguised Spy is not "just situational"
You're reintroducing the problem of the Ambassador but now you don't even need to land a headshot

>>717878383
you can also just bum rush demo as a flanker since 90% of demofags have no idea how to aim pipes

>>717844867 (OP)
If the spy's skill floor was lower he'd be abused. You need to have a few braincells and patience to play spy and if you get good, you'll be rewarded (and an annoying asshole).

Also he was designed for infiltrating bases and stealing intel, now that everyone plays payload he's less effective and a niche pick for stifling enemy engineer teleporters and harassing snipers who forget to wear their razorback.

whenever I join the match I feel compelled to play a class who doesn't have anyone else playing them even if I suck ass with them

>>717844867 (OP)
If I were to make any changes to the Pyro, It'd be as such
>Scorch Shot slows on a direct hit instead of bouncing up
>~200 base HP or enough so that you can survive a random melee crit at full health
>Faster jetpack holster speed and slightly better air control after launch and FAR less knockback on enemies upon landing
>Gas Passer charges faster, refills on spawn, and some other form of utility like slowing everyone hit by the initial throw or an enhanced afterburn that deals damage faster but doesn't last as long if the pyro isn't focusing them down
>Make the Hot Hand minicrit on the second slap if both hits connect
>Tweak Axtinguishers damage penalty
There's probably some other stuff but this is what I can think of off the top of my head

>>717857374
>classes should have a single playing style

dumb

>>717846426
I absolutely would this pyro

>>717866885
GOES THE BROKEN GLASS AND

>>717878486
>>Break the game
this is just "fresh install devourer" because any actually good player can counter a spy without thinking
the best spies would be worse to face if they were any other class

>>717848254
Pyro players get shit for free and it still isn't enough for them.

thank goodness valve doesn't listen to you jackasses and left the game in a good enough state. Can't imagine how horrible all of this game killing shit you guys suggest would be

>>717879043
I mean you can only get so far by purely making suggestions and not being able to test them out

>>717878781
>Backstabs
>Backstabs but it overheals you 75+ health every backstab

nerf wrangler, nerf explosives vs buildings, remove the razorback.

>>717879309
>sneaky and stealthy
>run around fully visible and le epik trikstabs

>>717879043
>and left the game in a good enough state
Casual mode being dogshit and certain weapons like Caber and Bison being borderline useless? Yep, they sure did leave it in a good state!

>>717878781
Yes. Go play another game to find more "playstyles"

>>717844867 (OP)
Reduce his cloak fade times by half
Extend cloak times for IW/CnD/DR to 12s/10s/8s
Remove the damage fall-off penalty on the Ambassador, and make it mini-crit past the current range for crits
Apply the same principle to the Diamondback
Let the Dead Ringer pick up ammo for charge when not cloaked again
Reduce the cloak penalty on the YER from -40% to -25%

Done.

Make the revolver more accurate.

>>717878781
Kunai is just optimized spy. You're not supposed to get spotted before you stab, and then you wanna do as much damage as you can as you surf out to reset. Kunai weakens you in the bad scenario and strengthens you in the good one. It's just the direct hit of spy.

The backstab should only do 90% damage.

>>717873191
>no longer appears on enemy team's respawn wallhacks when disguised
This gives him away too, the spawn wallhacks just need to be removed.

Unpopular Opinion: The Kunai and Big Earner should be reworked.
The Kunai should give you the Big Earner's cloak and speed boost on backstab, but also force you into cloak for 3 seconds (doesn't drain charge). A proper hit-and-run ninja vanish weapon.
The Big Earner should come with a -50HP max health penalty, but each backstab increases your base HP by 25 up to a maximum of 175, and heals you for 25HP.

>>717879707
Really couldn't help yourself but front end your post with Valve to force people to play on your Youtuber's server, could you.
Could have left well enough alone with an objective assessment so undeniable that nobody can admit the cabe newell should be reverted.

>>717880076
I don't hate this partly because the names would be more fitting.

>>717880262
It also destroys the cancer that is the current Kunai health-tanking with the DR.

>>717879043
There is a reason none of those weapon rebalance/new weapons mod servers never last and its precisely because 99% of players make for shit game designers.

>>717880695
I'd say the reason is more the fact that you'd be asking a lot for the average player to relearn how most of the weapons work when that knowledge is only applicable to those servers

>>717880832
By your logic no one would have ever learned how to play Team Fortress because it was based on Quake. If people rebalance and weapon ideas were actually good the servers with them would be more popular.

>>717873872
"Honest" continues to be one of the most obnoxious terms I see thrown around on these threads. If I had to guess what it means I would say Heavy isn't honest because everyone playing him is always demonstrated playing way above their actual skill as seen whenever you ever see these players switch off heavy and suddenly drop in effectiveness massively.
>fair
Nothing fair about losing in a pub game because the other player had a buttbuddy who joined with them as they proceed to steamroll with a far too effective combo.
>and nobody hates them
I hate him. Also what the fuck is "them"? Are you talking about heavy and medic together or are you being some pronoun faggot?

>>717880832
custom servers die out because zoomers and literal children are the majority of people playing this game and they're too retarded to understand anything beyond "click button to start matchmaking", all the oldfags who used to play on community servers moved on and the only ones that are left are run by troonytunes who have a bunch of retarded server rules up that makes nobody want to keep playing on them.

>>717880832
>Valve just HAS to force people to play with me, they just don't know they like MY balance ideas yet
News flash, retard, it's been 7 fucking years and people STILL hate the balance changes retards like you got put in the game and you (collective) STILL have to go running around saying
>It had nothing to do with us
>It was good that it happened
>It should happen MORE in spite of every sign showing it was a fucking retarded idea

>>717846587
I don't really know what you're trying to imply. The Medic isn't supposed to be an offensive, damage-dealing class. You're trying to play a class the complete opposite of what its role actually is. Your goal is to get your whole team as healthy as possible, and choose a pocket to focus heals and give ubers when it's needed. Your survivability increases drastically once you learn how to position yourself properly. If your team can't win with a great medic there probably isn't much you could have done as any other class anyways.

>>717878010
>(ignoring the fact that they’re still sacrificing a shotgun or healing lunchbox for fucking BRAWLER heavy)
Steak sandvich still has regular sandvich's m2 which is all you need when you have a medic with you. Shotgun is a literal meme (literally, it's called fatscout).

>>717844867 (OP)
yes but honestly just some extra HP and add the same passive dmg resist his invis watch gives to his disguise and he should be good to go

>>717881120
>Valve just HAS to force people to play with me, they just don't know they like MY balance ideas yet
Anon never said that. He just said that any attempt to balance tf2 is going to be met with the problem of getting people to fucking bother with it, which is true.

Remember people also fucking hate valve's balancing decisions. They still play it because that's the default. The masses will put up with so much bullshit just because it's the default and they can't be bothered to try anything else. The bots proved that.

>>717881530
>He didn't say now let me get postiviely furious at those STUPID fucking TF2 gamers who definitely do not dislike so much that running bots for several years translated into basically nothing for attracting players, the problem is DEFINITELY not us.

>>717881634
What the fuck are you even trying to say?

>>717850319
Only on some maps and you are also reliant on one of the other 23 people in the game not grabbing one.

>>717881634
You just really like making stuff up huh?

>>717881694
I'm saying people don't like you (collective) or your retarded ideas for what TF2 "should" be and that trying to force people to play with you won't change that (your ideas being shit and you being unlikable)

>>717881732
What am I making up anon? By all means let me know.

>>717881778
>I'm saying people don't like you (collective) or your retarded ideas for what TF2 "should" be
Well I won't pretend I've ever liked any of these community balance ideas myself.

>and that trying to force people to play with you won't change that
That's precisely what I'm pointing out the anon wasn't saying. No one but you ever mentioned forcing anyone. Are you not able to comprehend what is said to you?

>>717881530
The idea that people wouldn't bother to learn no matter how good the ideas are is absurd. People learned how to play Versus Saxton Hale. People learned how to play Prop Hunt. People learned how to play Surf maps. People learned how to play Death Run. People learned how to play Zombie Fortress. And these are all more complicated than weapon rebalances and for the most part they are all more popular too.

>>717882131
Those are game modes, not complete weapon balance changes
Two wildly different beasts

>>717870712
What if you, as a fully revved heavy, just kill the spy if you're looking right at him? The spy AT BEST is 200 hp which gets shredded in under 2 seconds of minigun fire. Oh wait it's because you can't aim and then seethe!

>>717882219
>They just don't count because they just don't people don't KNOW that they want my balance changes!!

>>717882354
Who are you quoting?

>>717882131
>>717882219
The answer is if you're ever going to make something that attempts to rebalance the game you will need to have more to offer than just "it's balanced differently". You actually need to have some cool new features not in the game already, "see this cool thing this class can do now, don't you want to try this?" so that people will actually want to try it.

The good news is if you're actually going to do a good job balancing the game this automatically will entails some new class abilities because some classes do frankly need some shit like that.

>>717882548
You retards complaining a whole different game mode that frequently changes how a variety of weapons work is TOTALLY different and way less drastic than making the sandman ball move 20% slower or some stupid shit.
Or that you're still on some idea that people haven't "played" balance changes enough to know they like them.

>>717879925
What you're describing is the Big Earner. You're easier to kill but if you get a backstab you get the potential to chain hits.
Kunai makes you tankier after the stab for when you go for a retarded kill out in the open that should get you killed under normal circumstances, but instead you Dead Ringer away with the effective health of an overhealed Heavy.

>>717882823
>effective health
Shut the fuck up retard.

>>717882881
>hurf durf word make me mad
Good contribution, mongoloid. Average Kunai user btw.

>>717882950
I still use all stock you donkey.

A person's opinion on the Wrangler can instantly gauge whether they're worth listening to.

>>717858306
>>717854672
Solarlight already debunked this

>>717866315
I pitched a riot shield idea for demo years ago. The gimmick being that the shield bash doesn't stop when hitting an enemy, like the other shields, allowing you push multiple targets. Gives bullet and melee resistance instead of explosive and fire resistance. Bash does reduced or no damage on it's own, maybe being tied to slamming the target into terrain.

>>717883442
Solarlight can go get his faggot ass hit by train.

>>717867217
A suit of armor with headshot AND backstab AND crit/minicrit resistance/immunity. Make it occupy the primary weapon slot.

Also, a gigantic double barrel shotgun with self knockback. Basically a bigger, stronger, slower FaN for heavy. Primary weapon slot.

>>717883435
It's very useful in Mann v. Machine

>>717883435
Honestly way more effective popped on a level 1 sentry to annoy the shit out of people from too far away.

>Baby Face's Blaster - Nerfed
>Soda Popper - Nerfed
>Crit-a-Cola - Nerfed
>Sandman - Nerfed
>Cleaver - Nerfed
>Pocket Pistol - Nerfed
>Shortstop - Nerfed
>Atomizer - Nerfed
I suffer as Scout. No fun allowed.

>>717854932
Frankly all the complaints people have about the Kunai are just people complaining about the Deadringer.
I never hear anyone complain about the Kunai when they're using stock or c&d. Turns out that basically negative the Kunai's downside of being excessively frail before a stab makes the weapon more frustrating to play against.

>>717848292
one in the same

>>717884421
The dead ringer total dogshit these days too, I'm frankly surprised anyone uses it.

I just fucking hate anyone who plays casual as if their life depends on it regardless of class. If you play as a vacc medic and heavy combo and don't let the other team cap for more time, you're the worst kind of subhuman nigger more than any annoying sniper or spy.

>>717881052
lmao you got dominated by a Heavy. CRY SOME MOOOOAR

>>717884540

soldier>scout>demoman>medic>heavy>engineer>sniper>pyro>spy
this is the definitive order
sniper/pyro/spy fags eat shit

>>717884898
>t. soldier main
You got lucky Soldier is the pet class of the devs.

>>717884898
medics should be at the bottom of this, medic mains are some of the most uppity little bitches who expect to be worshipped by their entire team because they pocketed the shitter with the shiniest hat and get mad at their team when they whiff all their own crossbow shots or drop ubers

>>717884303
>>Cleaver - Nerfed
not really

>>717854107
What do you think of my Pyro?

>>717883435
Maybe nerf the shield resistance to 50% (2x effective HP), but nothing else. Engineer being unable to defend himself while using it is already a huge downside.

>>717885008
there's a reason for that
because he's kino

engineer deserves a handgonne for medieval mode

>>717881374
What if the steak M2 was changed to give minicrits to the recipient. Less than the amount of time the heavy gets, maybe a quarter, or a half if they also get some sort of downside like the heavy

>>717851398
woaw... can i tongue ur anus :3

>>717883435
It's balanced after the gun mettle nerf.
Your wrench couldn't outheal the damage.

>>717844867 (OP)
Give the spy the ability to make a enemy look like their on your team for a brief moment without letting them know and turn on friendly fire so they can be hurt by their allies.

>>717885985
might as well make it so no one wants to use the fucking thing then.
I'm sure every medic would love to be given a fucking minicrit boost while they're burning to death you fucking dunce.

>>717883652
He's much better than you at TF2 so he's a better authority

>>717866124
My balancing is just simply removing the ability to build uber during uber duration.
Only vaccinator can do that while other three mediguns are draining.

>>717847302
Throwable sapper but throwing it takes you out of your disguise

>>717844867 (OP)
Add a new weapon, a dummy gun that does no damage but will not break disguise when shooting
Buff disguises

I would just like to say that the Crusaders Crossbow should be called the Poogayers Cuckbow because the Blutzager is so much more fun to use. Shredding over confident pyros and scouts is 1000% more interesting than healing xXx-[DIP]SHIT420xXx after he over extends like a dumbass. But when I use it + kritz every YouTube watching LOSER seethes and malds endlessly

>>717887367
The crossbow is one of medic's worse primaries. People just use it because some youtuber years ago that nobody watches anymore had an unusual medieval medic hat.

>>717878810
based

>>717887654
it's literally only good for situational burst healing at close range, or mid range if you're aiming for a revved up heavy. if you're not saving your target's life with your crossbow, you wasted uber percentage and should have healed them with your medigun. i say that and i'll land the sickest mid-air long distance crossbow shots, but it's just better, faster and more consistent to mostly heal using the medigun to maximize your ubercharge output.

>>717887851
For me it's
>Healing 11 niggas at once with the amputator the actually good medieval medic item

>>717865646
>A wall of text ability, wow it's so complex and deep!
Why are modern games (and you) like this

>>717888085
>>717888085
Dude more stats means more interesting
A straight forward mechanic like
>Hit the guy with the ball and he won't be able to rocket jump at you and kill him
Is bad game design and also overpowered and only people who are bad at the game using it and hitting people with the ball FEELS random so it's BAD

>>717846587
Heal slaves should be revoked of their free speech right.

>>717888340
>*switches classes*

>>717844867 (OP)
removing all cosmetics and returning to default loadout will literally fix all of TF2's problems.

>>717888449
but then the market will drop, cant have that

>>717888449
The item servers being completely down for a couple days really did highlight how cancerous Dead Ringer is, I'll say that much.

>>717888495
then the game is beyond saving

>>717888449
>Nobody plays the Xbox port
>Nobody plays on the TF2C 2007 edition server
No

>>717888449
You retards did that in 2014 and got made fun of for being newfags then
And a new generation of you retards migrated to an alt client to make it more annoying to make fun of you.
Neither of these attempts made a better game or even one people want to regularly play.

>>717888526
just use mods bro

>>717887851
>it's literally only good for situational burst healing at close range, or mid range
yes, I agree which is why its medic best primary. it makes the healer class better at healing.

>>717886751
Maybe... throw it at someone OTHER THAN medic? Kind of like medic should sometimes heal someone other than heavy?

>>717846587
>>dps is pitiful and you get juggled by m2 pyros
this is like scout complaining that they get juggled by demoman. it is physically impossible for a pyro to deal damage to a remotely competent medic if the medic does not want to take damage.

>>717887851
I like firing it indo clusters of people and not having to care who I hit. Also harassing snipers.

>>717887851
75 damage across the horizon isn't nothing.

>>717889081
risking getting your head blown off because you're putting yourself in the sniper's sightline isn't nothing either.

>>717844982
>Taking base TF2 seriously
This game was always much better enjoyed for the custom gamemodes/community servers.

>>717889081
You mean what most of anyone you're healing could do in two shots?
Or one if they're a demoman?

>>717883435
I like using the frontier justice so I can't justify not having a pistol equipped as well

>>717884303
because scout is an inherently powerful class and valve kept designing his unlocks around the average scout player sucking ass which made them broken in competent hands

>>717889427
This is true but all the fun community servers got omegafucked over the years and died out so base tf2 is the only thing left to talk about

>>717891270
I mean more accurately the internet as a whole got fucked.

>>717884768
That's fair. The vaccinator is still for faggots though.

>>717892226
just use melee bro lol
it ain't that hard

Soon it will be 10 years since the last real TF2 update and /v/ will continue pretending that it will receive balance updates

>>717878383
Git gud

>>717892332
A certain youtuber and his clique of discord teenagers does not /v/ make.

>>717887851
>situational burst healing
Scout, soldier, demo and sniper all do burst damage how the fuck is burst healing situational? Also add a line of sight healing that goes way past your mediguns range allowing you to help your soldier/scout who is flanking and you cant reach without dying.

my entire identity and playstyle is defined by doing the opposite of what I think youtubers say you should do

>>717892707
read the rest of the post. crossbow hits barely give ubercharge, if you don't need burst healing to save a life, then you're slowing down uber. another situational use is when there's too many people to heal, so only burst heal enough so that you still have damage to heal with your medigun to build up uber. good ubercharging is what differentiates great medics from god tier medics that pop 20+ ubers in the span of a match

>>717844867 (OP)
They should make the deadringer partially refillable with ammo boxes, can't fully get it back like you used to but you can at least speed up the process.
Also the wangaprick is just a straight up upgrade to the eternal reward.

>>717844867 (OP)
This is literally just a YOU problem, You are dogshit at the game, This is a genuinely easy class to learn