Thread 718382601

>play war game in the renaissance era
>soldiers just slowly walk forward in a straight line at the enemy shooting at them without taking any cover

Was this really historically accurate to how wars were fought during that period? Were white people just retarded or what?

>>718382601 (OP)
your ancestors didn't do that, how did it work out for them?

>>718382601 (OP)
Did white people really?

this is a bait thread also that's not the renaissance

>>718382672
they actually lived and had descendants unlike the idiots who died for rich men by walking in a straight line into enemy gunfire.

>>718382601 (OP)
That's like saying the wars of the three kingdoms in china happened 200 years ago, dumbfuck OP

>>718382601 (OP)
Your skin looks like poop lol

>>718382949
Incels see a bunch of half-naked drugged out furries yelling at a fire and think "thats me fr fr"

browns need to simmer down

Why are browns so bat at war? Before Vietnam they have almost never won against White people, despite trying to invade us since the Persian wars.
Yet instead of learning from their mistakes, they do like OP and seethe at their betters. I guess they are unable to evolve past the tribal stage.

>>718382601 (OP)
Haha wypipo be so stupid walking up to guns

>>718382601 (OP)
i think that worked like 1 time, after that everyone made foxholes and winner was whoever had more artillery/aviation

like world war 1, people just sit in foxholes in dirt and waited untill war is over.

>>718382601 (OP)
>Were white people just retarded or what?
And what does that say about you ancestors?

>>718382949
>>718383484
furry culture is WHITE culture

>>718383986
>Before Vietnam they have almost never won against White people
They didn't even really lose that war. America just got bored and went home. It wasn't like America was routinely losing battles against the VC. The won all the time. It was like 300 VC killed for every 1 American. The Tet Offensive was a massive failure for the VC. US absolutely would have won except they just went "Fuck the." and went home instead.

Early muskets were generally less lethal than bows. Terrible accuracy.
But you could teach a pleb army to use them rather quickly they don't require great skill or strength to wield.

Any games that match Empire/Napoleon for proper firing lines, artillery and cavalry?

>>718382601 (OP)
>>renaissance
Brown people can laugh all they want. They were never advanced enough to even attempt to wage war.
Ret me exprain, brown boy.
Warfare is a thing of innovation.
If you have enough men, or the numbers advantage, you don't need to worry about losing using this kind of strategy (unless your men can't aim for shit). It's once you start losing that you're forced to improvise with lesser forces and devise strategies that are something else than "my army is bigger than your army".
If I were to compare warfare to gaming (hoooly reddit i know), back then war was much more about macro (which settlements to take, river advantages, where to send these large amounts of soldiers) rather than about micro (how the soldiers actually fight).
Ultimately, war evolved into trench warfare. Or devolved, rather. I think the WW1/2 blueprint of waging war ultimately cost more lives by its back and forth fruitless nature than it would've had it used this """""renaissance""""" way of fighting. But it was inevitable desu. First came guns, then came tanks, then came orbital bombardment....
Warfare, in its purest expression of skill, peaked before guns were even a thing. Everything past that has been an ever evolving meatgrinder peacock fight. When every country has means of obliterating one another with the press of a button, the only way left to *purely demonstrate* power is through conventional methods that involve humans. Warfare will never evolve beyond this. There will be no robots fighting instead of men. There will either be carnage or salted earth.
It is what it is...
In a way, the spearchuckers are lucky. Or were, rather. Until someone decided to give a monkey a gun and now half their country is at war lol.

>>718384265
>this cope again
50 years later and still as strong as ever lmao

>>718382601 (OP)
Something insane like 80% of all casualties in any pre modern war were in an army retreating or routing, what you are describing as retarded is a display of discipline. The untrained would run away the moment the block got too close, where even if they got a few shots(not kills, people dont just instantly die when injured and can keep fighting) by running around a field just taking shots, they cant actually hold the ground, how do you think they can control territory if they keep running away when the enemy shows up. When fighting other "white people" that were disciplined they actually gave fight, so you had these scenarios where 2 sides stand close to eachother and fire, until one side breaks and runs and then gets cut down. Its a display of discipline the browns never attained, its why you see shit like
>500 guys go against 3,000, both have guns
>outcome: catastrophic casualties and the overturn of an empire
>of the 500 who fought, only 50 actually died of their injuries, on the other side they were cut down as they ran
Discipline wins.

There was incentives to be at the front, the same as there was for being first up the ladder too. Thats why people actually wanted these positions too.

>>718384868
Fuck, I remember when you could do the same fun shit in total war. Now it's just a casualized slop with stat grinding.

>>718384868
This scene is so retarded. Why would they charge into the pikes when they have guns?

It’s sad to see so many White posters ITT bothering to reply to a 40 IQ samefagging jeet.
In a way it’s a good metaphor for the modern White mindset, people engaging with and caring about literal goblins whose entire, limited brain power is dedicated to hating Whites and fantasising about killing them.

>>718384868
>so you had these scenarios where 2 sides stand close to eachother and fire, until one side breaks and runs and then gets cut down
Two sides sat there shooting at each other until one side runs away is actually a sign that both sides are poorly trained/drilled, in line-on-line infantry combat the most effective way to break the enemy was with the bayonet. It's partially why Napoleon's armies were so effective, the French soldiers were incredibly aggressive while most of their opponents fielded lower-quality soldiers who tended to fight battles by way of (extremely inefficient) shootouts. And that same aggression was the reason French infantry tended to suffer against British infantry, British officers valued drill and discipline extremely highly and so British line infantry were comfortable holding fire until the French infantry closed to the point where the effect would be devastating, and then immediately following it with a bayonet charge.

>>718385294
>British officers valued drill and discipline extremely highly
3 rounds a minute in any weather

Nepoleonic period games are GOAT.
I love Empire Total War because I can set up my colonialist army of riflemen to perform alternating volley fire and see the retarded subhuman Indian cattle serfs scatter in seconds while their elephants get vaporized by heavy cannon fire.

>>718382601 (OP)
No. There was always skirmishing, combined arms, utilization of terrain etc.
As an aside that vid is far removed from the renaissance, even pic related only came about at the tail end/after the renaissance

>>718385452
>okay now do a posh English accent Sean
>ey nowt to be done aboot it lad
>okay nevermind I guess Sharpe is from Yorkshire now?

>>718385452
There's like what? 20 Sharpe movies?

>>718384295
Incorrect. Excluding the precursors of arquebus and co. firearms were objectively better in effective range and accuracy compared to bows. Its why they supplanted them.

God I wish this game and all of its mods didn't suck ass
>the inevitable logjam of lag you get where advancing every turn on the grand campaign takes like 5+ minutes due to the Ottomons and Swedes having 10,000 single troop units walking around doing nothing
>eventually they just start blocking each others paths and make the game unplayable
>even the most famous mods don't effectively fix this, like DarthMod, Empire 2
>half of the good mods aren't even accessible anymore, like the American Civil War mod which stopped getting support in like 2012

>>718385572
Well, you gotta stay Sharpe

>>718385572
16 and they're all amazing

>>718385452
>>718385572
THERE'S FORTY SHILLINGS ON THE DRUM

>>718382601 (OP)
I hate this fucking bait

>>718385656
World conquest in Empire is just fantastic as long as the AI turns don't start taking coffee breaks to resolve.

>>718385762
that's every time I play for me, with every mod, doesn't even matter

By turn 50 the game is completely shot on Grand Campaign

>>718385795
Isn't there a Zulu DLC for Empire?

>>718385556
What I can remember the youth of Sharpe wasn't really established when the first movie came out, but the author like Sean Bean's portrayal so much he made it canon. He did have to retcon Sharpe's black hair into blonde iirc

>>718384457
some servers in M&B Napoleonic Wars
it was the most fun i've had in the game playing on those servers, dunno if they still exist

>>718385889
Not him but Napoleonic wars is still alive

>>718385949
no doubt it is, but there were some semi-RP servers that were really fucking fun, thats what i meant when i said idk if they are still around, cool if they are

>>718382601 (OP)
This litterally conquered your ancestors?

>>718385795
You can conquer Africa and mow down the natives by the thousands in the Victoria games, but it's really abstract, so you'll have to imagine the details yourself

>>718386105
I hate those types of games

>>718386105
But I want to see the blacks die.

>>718386018
Minisiege and commander battles fire on weekends plus there's some password locked shit. DM with palm trees is open 25/7 with playera

>>718384849
>this communist psyop again
50 years later and still strong as ever lmao

>>718385795
And what about a game about the napoleonic naval wars?

>>718382601 (OP)
>Were white people just retarded or what?

Those tactics literally conquered every brown country with ease

>renaissance
lines of musketeers firing volleys was a early modern tactic
renaissance combat was pike and shot
pike and shot was arguably more retarded, the death tolls in renaissance combat were usually insanely low.

>>718386161
move to Detroit

>>718385630
Wrong. The main draw was indeed the ease of training and lower cost associated with giving a rando a gun instead of having to train archers.
If you were right in any way (which you aren't), massed fire would have never been a thing.

>>718386217
One day...

>>718382601 (OP)
White people have a suicidal level of honor and empathy that is easy to exploit.

>>718385630
>firearms were objectively better in effective range and accuracy compared to bows.
That only happend once rifled barrels where introduced.

>>718382601 (OP)
If it's such a bad tactic how come they conquered the world that way?

>>718386314
NTA but archers also relied on massed fire in actual warfare because bows also suffered from poor accuracy at range. The biggest tell that the musket ended up being flatly superior to the bow is that in the age of professional armies wearing absolutely no armour at all the bow never came back in any fashion despite on paper sounding like it could be reasonably effective.

>>718386624
>He doesn't know

>>718386624
wrong retard
rifled barrels didnt even get popular until 1800
unrifled muskets eclipsed crossbows and arbalests in like 1450

>>718386314
Main draw was the massively increased lethality, a single shot can drop a man but a single arrow will harmlessly be embedded in his armour. Archers can't stop infantry and horse charges but gunners can which is why battles like Nagashino happened.

>>718386836
Read my post again. I'm talking about range and accuracy you bbc enjoyer. The reason guns replaced bows earlier than that is >>718386314

>>718386793
Yeah, so between them two being otherwise same, being able to field more firepower faster obviously led to adoption of the musket

>>718386895
I bet you can cite a source for that claim of yours.
>Archers can't stop infantry and horse charges
Is that so? Can you cite a single source that has archers shooting into a cavalry charge? Or was that just not a tactic employed during that time?

>>718382601 (OP)
Why didn't they give everyone thick breastplates? Metal armor was still the best defense against guns at the time. And munitions armor meant to be cheap and mass produced was already a thing centuries before

>>718386970
still wrong nigger
muskets and arbalests have the same effective range

>>718382601 (OP)
It was a tactic invented by the British to reduce casualties, they historically fought the vikings and romans, cool battles that would inevitably go into slow motion for dramatic effect and get a lot of their side killed. They discovered that by feeding their troops treacle tarts and spotted dick, they'd be too bloated for sick ass moves and just kind of waddle in a line, which is boring and stayed at regular speed, allowing them to effortlessly pick off their slo-mo opponents.

>>718387040
>Or was that just not a tactic employed during that time?
Generally not, because good archers are hard to replace and want to keep them in the back away from horse charges. They aren't supposed to be shooting at horse charges either, the chances of doing any meaningful damage is negligible.

And when talking about the Japanese, remember that they didn't have western bow units because the bow was strictly a samurai weapon and "bowmen units" were samurai that used bows before mounting up or shot from the saddle before charging.

>>718387167
Did you miss your own reply chain or are you just so mad you replied to a random post?

>>718384868
>Something insane like 80% of all casualties in any pre modern war were in an army retreating or routing
More than that provided both armies were even somewhat disciplined. Ancient/early iron warfare was mostly just shouting at each other, throwing rocks/javelins, and then the first ranks dueling each other until one got tired/injured so the next rank could push up (which is why flanking was so devastating because now the exhausted and injured guys have no safe place to rest).
Granted, napoleonic wars are modern wars and artillery really stepped up casualty counts but people don't understand how slowly casualties actually piled up when men aren't just charging entrenched positions with overlapping fields of fire.

>>718382601 (OP)
We already had this thread on /tv/ a few days ago you foetid cunt, yes, the most successful forms of warfare in history were the most successful. You mouth breathing, shit devouring retard.

>>718387040
>I bet you can cite a source for that claim of yours
I could if I cared to kek, you should just read about the subject instead of parroting popular history points like muh training (which on its face doesn't make sense as historically gunners were more expensive to hire and maintain)
>Is that so? Can you cite a single source that has archers shooting into a cavalry charge? Or was that just not a tactic employed during that time?
I'm sure you've heard about the battle of Agincourt so I don't even know why you'd even bother to ask.

I recommend reading about British military history since despite them being famous archers they switched to more expensive guns

>>718387109
>Why didn't they give everyone thick breastplates?
Shits fucking expensive yo. Why do you think only the elites became professional soldiers for most of history? A greecian soldier losing his armor and shield on the battlefield could very well go broke from such a thing if his business at home isn't doing well enough to recover it. Depending on the city-state they were in they could lose their citizenship over it.

>>718387384
>hurrdurr I won't provide source do your own research ;^)
Okay so you're talking out of your ass

>hurfdurf battle of Agincourt
Nigga the cavalry charge got COMPLETELY FUCKED by the archers, so you have just proved yourself wrong, you fucking retarded uber-retard.

>>718382601 (OP)
>no mustaches

>>718385050
Guys with pikes have guns too that fire from inside the block at them, theyre trying to break apart the formation, they cant just sit there and shoot at them without being shot back.

>>718385452
>Cheesy 80s guitar mixed with fife and drum intro plays
>Small skirmish between the British and French
>Sharpe flailing his sword around while Hagman gives cover fire
>They win the skirmish
>Messenger on horseback approaches
>"Lieutenant/Captain/Major Sharpe, you are summoned to Lord Wellington's tent"
>"Bloody 'ell, Patrick. What's 'e want now?"
>Sharpe arrives in old Nosey's tent
>His spymaster of the day is there
>As is a weasel-looking British officer or French lord
>"Sharpe, this is Lord Fucksworth, who has a dangerous mission for you - you will be enormously outnumbered, deep behind enemy lines with no support, oh and Major Ducos is around so watch out for him."
>Lord Fuckworth insults him for being a poorfag, but reluctantly accepts that this is Wellington's best man
>"As ye like, sir. Ah'll get it dun."
>Cut to Sharpe and Patrick discussing the mission
>"It dun maek bloody sense, Patrick. Why do they need us to tek this castle/find this woman/get these supplies/uncover this plot?"
>"Oh, surely as the fields o' Ireland are green, sir. God has a plan for us, sir."
>A few battles happen on the way to the objective
>Oh, look. It's an attractive young woman who keeps looking at Sharpe suggestively
>They fuck
>"Look, Patrick! It's the thing we're here for!"
>"LOOK OUT, SIR."
>Lord Fucksworth appears and betrays Sharpe
>Ducos appears
>"HON HON HON! Bamboozled you again, my nemesis."
>"Bloody Ducos."
>Battle happens
>Patrick goes "AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH BANG" with the 7-barrelled gun
>Wellington arrives
>"Well done, Sharpe! You've done it again."
>Sharpe and his men march into the sunset
>THERE'S FORTY SHILLINGS ON THE DRUM...FOR THOSE WHO VOLUNTEER TO COME..

>>718387491
I already mentioned munitions armor which European armies mass produced for common soldiers in the early modern era. It's a cost for sure but evidently not insurmountable. And they wouldn't need to create a full suit of plate armor, just a thick and roughly finished breastplate to the protect the vitals

>>718384265
do Americans actually believe this?

>>718387592
>Nigga the cavalry charge got COMPLETELY FUCKED by the archers
one example
out of euro history you can pull out maybe 3 or 4 examples and all of them have gigantic mediating factors like the cav being absolutely retarded and trying to charge through mud, uphill, without support, into the front, while their opponents brought an extremely disproportionate amount of skirmishers and reinforced their position

>>718386314
>>718386624
Absolutely wrong
>it was really because the Japanese had the use of muskets that could reach beyond several hundred paces, that always pierced what they struck, that came like the wind and the hail, and with which bows and arrows could not compare.
t. Gooks during the Imjin War

Anthony Bryant, in his book "Samurai 1550-1600" gives us an effective range of 200m for muskets and 80m for bows.

>>718382672
>>718383218
>>718384141
>>718386069
>White people conquered your ances-ACK!

>>718387592
>Okay so you're talking out of your ass
Lol
Lmao

It's only the most basic military history.

>Nigga the cavalry charge got COMPLETELY FUCKED by the archers
But they didn't, the battle became a melee whereas guns would've wiped out the French instead of just slowing them down and felling their horses. The french after all DID reach the English line despite being constant fire which just goes to show how INEFFECTIVE bows were in the battle

>>718387861
Your claim was, and I cite

>>718386895
>Archers can't stop infantry and horse charges
And apparently they can, and even if it's just a single example. So you got proven wrong. Take the L and stop being retarded... if you can.

Also, since you seem to totally know your history stuff, please explain to me how Napoleon's armies managed to march right up to the enemy in musket and cannon fire. Shouldn't that have stopped them? How could he ever win anything?

>>718387914
people forget that japs had the most guns in their armies per capita at the time, more than european armies. they absolutely fell in love with guns the moment they got their hands on them
>>718388003
>Your claim was
>everyone who responds to me is one person
Exceptions prove the rule, btw

>>718387968
>the battle became a melee whereas guns would've wiped out the French
That's just your retarded headcanon. By your logic no charge from the age of musket on could have ever been done successfully. Fucking retard.

>>718383150
Their countries were conquered and all their shit was taken. Now they all live in poverty while the West has the highest standards of living in the world

>>718388064
Read a book you gigantic nigger

>>718387936
Clear your throat anon. White people conquered your ancestors, and dragged you forward several hundred years in technology in doing so. Youre welcome.

>>718387936
what the fuck is this editing
fucking kevin dunn here going wild with the cuts

>>718384457
holdfast erp servers

>>718387662
Yeah, but they still would charge the formation like that. They would ride in circles, fire their guns and retreat to reload.

>>718387914
Adding onto the Imjin War account. Barnabe Rich also attested calivers to have roughly twice the range of a bow, Blaise de Montluc also noted that the french harquebuiser could outrange the english longbow. And The erm musketshot seems to have been considered by multiple writers to be equivalent to 300 yards.

>>718388210
>and dragged you forward several hundred years in technology in doing so.
One of the many mistakes of the west.

>>718387754
Glorious

>>718387936
Why is it always spics? Reminder that you're most likely descended from the niggers that were skinned alive by the Aztecs.

>>718388043
>Exceptions prove the rule, btw
Oh shit I am arguing with an actual teenager here.
Sorry kid, I didn't mean to. Go finish school, read a book or two and you won't spout things you don't understand the meaning of while thinking you're very smart.
That said, your claim was absolute, and if you say "x is not possible", then any, ANY occurrence of x proves you wrong. Anyway, I'm out, no use arguing with a literal semi-sentient toddler.

There sure are a lot of video games being discussed itt

>>718388151
Uh oh, looks like someone did a heckin racism here.
Do you not know that it is against the rules?

>>718388567
>and if you say "x is not possible", then any, ANY occurrence of x proves you wrong.
You're severely autistic
and yes, exceptions prove the rule. that you have to scrounge and scrape to come up with one instance of something happening then the inverse was likely the norm

>>718388426
Even civil war era muskets (smoothbore obviously) had an effective range of UP TO 300 yards, and that was at the very end of the smoothbore musket technology. English longbows could easily reach over 200 yards.
So yeah, centuries after bows weren't a thing anymore, you could have muskets with a better range. I doubt renaissance era muskets could achieve those ranges.

>>718382601 (OP)
>Was this really historically accurate to how wars were fought during that period?
Yes.
>Were white people just retarded or what?
Yes.

>>718384265
Holy coperino

I hate bowfaggots
>Muh RANGE
The arrow does no damage at the end of its flight

>>718388269
Bare in mind this is part of a full movie, they do do that, the problem was that it wasnt working after several attempts so they decide to try and force them to split thinking it would be easier because they are injured, but it doesnt work. The expectations was they were too injured to even hold their weapons up, thats why theyre jumping in, usually they break apart when that injured but nothing worked and they all fight to the death instead of split and run

Movie is Alatriste, its pretty good.

>>718388765
>centuries after bows weren't a thing anymore
Are you retarded?
Blaise de Montluc lived and wrote during the Italian Wars(1494-1559) a time when the english were still using longbows against french armored harquebuisers.
I'm talking about a contemporary account of weapons that were used against each other on the battlefield.

>>718387936
With the power of running past him while the camera randomly cuts we have defeated whitey!

>>718382601 (OP)
the guns were that bad, yes. plus the smoke.

>>718387109
expensive and also weighed you down.

>>718382601 (OP)
I think the French walked in columns

>>718382601 (OP)
>seven years war
>renaissance era

Everyone in this thread is wrong. Guns didn't replace bows, they replaced swords. Bows and crosbows where skirmish weapons meant to disrupt the enemy formation. (Which is why I always cringe when I see a "Knock, draw, loose" scene in movies.) Line battles were a thing with swords and remained a thing with guns.

>>718386314
Weren't the accuracy issues early on mostly a skill issue anyway?

>>718382601 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b5aD1bm7eI

>>718382601 (OP)
cavalry was still a thing so you had to maintain formation lest you make an easy target to run down.
beyond that, cover just wasn't practical for units that big. before rifling, guns were terribly inaccurate. which is also why the guns had to be that big.
the big killers in those battles were the cannons. cavalry was for breaking morale and mopping up stragglers. line infantry was just there to hold the line and occasionally fix bayonets and charge. their KDR absolutely sucked.

>>718389325
nta, but not really. In smoothbore muskets the ball would bounce around in the barrel, so aiming at anything beyond 50m was useless. That's why they fired in large groups, so you can just point the gun in that general direction and some of you will hit.

>>718389470
>which is also why the guns had to be that big
*why the units had to be that big

>>718382601 (OP)
>this kills the knight

>>718386217
We never gat naval anything
well we're getting that naval expansion for bannerlord which i'm conflicted about because on the one hand holy shit that's really cool but on the other hand i'm a little bitter about certain features still lacking from the base game I wish they would do first, in particular marrying peasants

>>718382949
No, it's some retarded bullshit à la Conan The Barbarian.

bows were fucking shit there's a goddamned reason why their predominant mode of usage for thousands of years was a bunch of assholes with no armor on horseback running up within 50 feet of a melee block and trying to sneak a volley in above their shields before running away to try it again
the best usage of a bow is purely to make the enemy more tired of holding their shield arm up for so goddamned long

>>718382601 (OP)
You are talking about the XVIII century warfare.
Renaissance and Modern Era warfare looked nothing like that. But we are never getting a game in the "pike and shot" time period.

>>718389525
Muskets could be very accurate if they were well made and used by skilled infantry, there are plenty of examples of skirmishers picking off officers at ranges around 100-150m

>>718389159
Swords weren't relevant for warfare. Even knights used pole arms as primary weapons.

>>718389325
>>718389525
I think the answer is yes. But the skill issue was the expense of training with actual ammunition. I've seen it said that people today are generally better shots with smooth bore muskets compared to the people of the past, but it's because they can actually train by shooting instead of focusing on muscle memorizing the mechanics of firing in formation under duress

>>718388928
That scene is based in the counter siege of Roncroi, and the tercios never got to that stage of desperation.

They lost because the French cavalry had captured the Spanish field artillery on their back (the Spanish were besieging a fortress) and 2 allied German "tercios" immediately deserted when the French army arrived.
So the French preferred to let the Spanish retreat after a scuffle (bombarding them with field artillery and raids of cavalry gunmen) than lose a large number of soldier trying defeat them.

>>718382601 (OP)
The british wouldn't be walking and taking fire like that, their officer would probably panic and have them run and fire as they advanced and then close distance with a bayonet charge.

>>718389852
>XVIII
Just say 18 retard. Nobody thinks you're clever

>>718390329
He's brown, that's why he's using brown people numerals.

>>718386210
Now tell us how we actually didn't lose the War in Afghanistan

>>718390329
Not my problem you can't read roman numerals, retard.

>>718389574
>We never gat naval anything
A-hum?

>>718382601 (OP)
Dumb OP, firing lines were needed as accuracy for blackpowder weapons was basically nonexistent so the best chance you had of hitting targets was firing a line of them at once.

>>718390446
But we also use brown Arabic numerals

>>718388601
Not our fault that game devs don't make many games in this period you wanabe jannie nigger.
It's enough of a problem to get WWII games nowadays without zoom zooms complaining.

>>718390126
Yes anon, and Braveheart is not a doccumentary either. Im explaining the context within the movie.

>>718391178
Anon plz... everyone knows that Braveheart is 100% historical accurate

>>718386217
>>718386416
>>718389574
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1069650/Ultimate_Admiral_Age_of_Sail/

>>718382601 (OP)
>Were white people just retarded
be respectful to your masters

>>718391620
based

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1368050/Sea_Legends/
*soon

>>718382601 (OP)
I don't think the guns back then had that amount of range, accuracy and letahlity of the vid

>>718392254
>check tags to make sure it's not gonna be MPslop
>"Assassin"
Devs having a giggle?

>>718392353
Yeah I'd say they should only start shooting at hal that distance. Hard to make out the lethality with the constantly close-ups

>>718392254
>Coming Soon To Early Access

>>718383986
Persians are Aryans. Hey Rabbi

>>718392353
The most common gun used here would be some form of Brown Bess. Which shoots a .75 inch lead ball at up to 1800ft/s. If it hits you you're going down.

>>718382601 (OP)
Yes, britoids are like turkey. They mindlessly walk to their death as long as daddy government commands it.

>>718389574
I'm just glad bonerlord is still getting content.
>>718390568
It's sad that this is still the best pirate game ever.

>>718389159
whenever i see this image, i know someone is baiting or just retarded.

If only Anon had been there to teach Napoleon et al. how to fight.

>>718392679
It's like 50/50 at 200 yards. Those aren't good odds for the guy getting shot at.

>>718382601 (OP)
Most people would survive this, muskets were extremely weak at a distance.
They used the same tactics medieval armies used with bows and arrows.

>>718390329
He might be french.

>>718392983
just get AK and Toyota and shoot all those fuckers down whilst running them over

>>718393895
As if a firing line of muskets wouldn't fuck you up inside the car.

>>718393895
>>718394259

>>718393031
Especially when used en masse which was the entire point of linear formations

>>718382601 (OP)
No, it's not accurate at all. The would make different formations, skirmish and would be supported by artillery and cavalry. The battles were much more dynamic.

>>718393895
Isn't there a game like that where you time travel to ancient Rome, but with modern weapons?

>>718383986
Vietnamese aren't brown, they're yellow. Get your racism right FFS.

I genuinely don't know how line battles work.
In video games, especially in modded mount and blade. What happens is that you either line up guys or put them on a overlapping lines on an incline. The moment you see the enemy army trying to go into formation, you pepper them with everything you've got. It's not like they can hide forever because your artillery will also keep them from turtling and dugging in. So whoever has the best guns and manages to fire first generally wins and the enemy just dies by the hundreds in seconds because nobody has shields or armor and you can't outrun bullets.

>>718384265
That's all true, but there was no good reason for the US to be there in the first place, so there was no reason to spend a single more taxpayer penny or sacrifice another American boy's life, so we finally wised up and left.
Then Vietnam became one of the least murderous commie countries out there, and now we're even nominal allies.

>>718393031
Making this worse was the absolute wretched state of battlefield medicine, especially compared with the rapid evolution of gunpowder weapons. Getting hit likely meant you would agonize for days and die even if the wound was easily treatable (and they often were nasty wounds with broken bones) because you were left to rot on the battlefield or no surgeon was at hand or they were all busy treating all the lords and important fellows. IIRC it wasn't until Larrey came around that things improved considerably. Absolutely based man.

>>718395617
>So whoever has the best guns and manages to fire first generally wins
Congrats, you just described all of combat history

>>718394923
Darkest of Days

>>718382601 (OP)
As others have already said, yes it is historically accurate. And no, despite being counterintuitive looking there were very simple reasons for it and it was extremely effective for centuries. Europe conquered the world fighting like that. But to understand why, you must first understand fire and shock.

Pre-firearm ranged weapons, such as slings, javelins, and most importantly the bow, were primarily used as “fire” weapons. Despite the hype surrounding weapons like English longbows or Mongolian recurve bows, the actual killing power of a bow against an armored man is pretty low. Even fired en masse, usually only a handful of enemy soldiers would be killed by volleys of arrows. What it *did* do was fray at the enemy formations. Whittle them down slowly. Exhaust them over time. This is the “fire” effect, and it was the precursor to shock. “Shock” was the decisive melee action: a furious cavalry or infantry battle that would cause huge casualties very quickly and cause enemy formations to rout. Mongolians did not win just because of “lol horse archers”, they used their horse archers to prepare the enemy until they were good and ready, and then they would charge with sword and lance to destroy you.

Guns, upon their introduction in the late Middle Ages, were seen as just another fire weapon. One that was much easier to use and with greater killing power, but with a lot of cumbersome drawbacks that relegated them to skirmisher formations (who fought in loser groupings). However, in Europe for a variety of reasons and as firearm technology continued to develop, it was discovered that a sufficiently large number of guns firing in a volley actually had a substantial shock effect. It was still rather cumbersome, but now European militaries had a weapon that could inflict shock at range. They then receded to use this weapon in this manner against everyone else and won easily.

>>718395617
It sounds like you know exactly how line battles work.
Napoleon nearly conquered all of Europe by simply doing what you are doing better than anyone else.

>>718395796
Ironically also the case with tank warfare. In movies and video games, tank fights are portrayed like dog fights where tankists try to out maneuver each other at semi close range. In reality it was just waiting for either one of you to jump the other and get a shot and disable the enemy tank.

>>718395617
Muskets are absolutely dogshit. The second anyone developed better guns, you got tactics like in the ACW instead, with skirmishers and cover

>>718395714
>It took the French Revolution for a country to care about it's wounded foot soldiers
>Napoleon built on that, ensuring he'd be loved by his troops
You'd think things so obvious would have been discovered earlier.

>>718395936
In reality, tank-on-tank engagements only made up 3% of the losses and the majority came from field AT guns

>>718395846
That's the best explanation itt, gj Anon.

>>718395617
That’s pretty much how it works, yeah. You have to remember that Napoleonic artillery was a substantial upgrade from what came before in terms of power though. Things were a little different in the Pike and Shot and Age of Reason days

>>718395846
Good enough post that I have to assume there's some truth to it.

Swedes just took one blast at the enemy from eye-white distance and then charged with bayonets.

>>718395939
Skirmishers were not an invention of the ACW anon. Most battles were still fought in linear formations, just with rifled muskets firing Minie balls which is why the battle deaths were so extreme.

>>718396103
>>718395939
>>718395881
I mean I can see how it works in theory and maybe practice but I can't visualize how it works from a personnel stand point. My brain is going full lindybiege like how he can't imagine push of pikes being a thing because no human is going to voluntarily try and impale himself into a formation like that.

>>718395846
This held up pretty much until the American Civil War and the Crimean War where almost every soldier carried a rifle instead of a musket.

The minie ball in particular made the technology in the ACW far outstrip the sophistication of the tactics which were still very Napoleonic.
But you basically went from an effective range of 200 yards to 1,000 yards. It became hard to continue to fight in line at such range but the boys during the ACW still did their best (though they did use entrenchment a lot more than the European wars earlier in the century, the trenchworks at Petersburg are more or less en par with WW1).

I find this to be one of the reasons the American Civil War is so interesting and the casualties are so high. Waterloo in Europe was branded as an apocalyptic battle but in the ACW, there were something like 10 Waterloos in a row in terms of casualties.

>>718395939
Skirmishers have been a thing for thousands of years anon.

>>718396432
That's actually a meme. ACW still had diseases like dysentery as the main cause of casualties
Interestingly, battle casualties only really shot up once smokeless powder was invented. Even with their insanely more accurate guns, it was still impossible to hit shit at range because the battlefield filled with smoke immediately

>>718395846
this reads like a Brandon Fisichella script

I'll add something that I learned from Fisichella: because reloads took so long, opposing armies would lock into stalemates trying to get one side to fire first. Whoever fired first would lose the advantage, and the opponent could begin rapidly marching / rushing forward to gain better accuracy.

>>718396435
The answer is discipline. It’s no coincidence that firearm supremacy came around the same time everyone in Europe was professionalizing their militaries. As I described here >>718395846 using guns alone was easy (or at least easier than using a bow). Using them in mass formations was not.

>>718396452
Not just the revolutionary war but it also continued up to the civil war because for some reason the american doctrine was still big line battles and infantry and cavalry charges when everyone is now armed with repeating rifles and gatling guns. Shit was basically 40k tier where rifleman still want to get close enough to stab one another with a sword or bayonet.

>>718387109
bankers just wanted as many white people as possible to die.

>>718396435
You always need to look at casualty numbers in battles. You're correct that most people will run away long before they're in an interlocked pike push

>>718396678
I was talking about the ACW, ya dingleberry.

Also, everyone did not have repeating rifles and gatling guns. There were very few of either deployed and pretty much only in the North.
Union Cavalry were equipped with the Henry repeating rifle, pretty much only Union Cavalry. The average line soldier was using a rifled musket with a minie-ball ammunition which like I said was the real tech breakthrough that brought old tactics into obsolescence.

>>718396572
Didn't they figure out the 'front line fires first, drops to their knees to reload, second line fires over their head' tactic pretty quickly?

>>718382949
Yeah but they advanced past it unlike half the world

>play Ultimate General: Civil War
>have the genius idea to make a brigade of skirmishers with however many long range rifles I can buy
>just part them outside enemy range and let them shoot
>dudes pick up 300 kills with 0 casualties every battle
>suddenly, the enemy starts doing the same thing
>they field 3x as many of those brigades as I can
I HATE ENEMY SCALING
I HATE ENEMY SCALING
I HATE ENEMY SCALING

>>718396452
Napoleonic battles were gargantuan in scale. The armies of Europe at that time were huge and it led to huge battles.
ACW battles were a lot smaller even if the casualty ratios were absurd.
>>718396569
Yes obviously disease was the primary killer until WWI, but men weren’t dying of the runs at Antietam or Gettysburg.

>>718396865
Oh for some reason I interpreted it as the american colonial war. This is the first time I've seen people refer to it as ACW.

>>718396432
Why are you dodging like this? They couldn't hit an eleph-ACK

I like fall of the samurai. I hope that if CA ever makes another gunpowder game it's as good as FOTS. The powerspike for getting the modern weaponry and techs feels good, the armstrong guns, the line infantry unlocking kneeling fire, cavalry becoming carabiners, the naval barrages. It captures how effective gunpowder warfare really was.

>>718396678
Because people were armed with muskets, not repeating rifles, and gatling guns were extremely rare.
You can’t fight in loose formations and expect decisive action when your weapon is the musket, even if your muskets are rifled muskets with Minie balls

>>718397013
>even if the casualty ratios were absurd
Okay let's check one of the battles you mentioned, Gettysburg
Union strength: 93,500–104,256
Union casualties: 23,049
Now let's compare that to the Battle of Waterloo, which according to you has to have giant numbers but not as high casualty ratios
French strength: 72,000–73,000
French casualties: 26,000–27,000

Any other pop-history myths you wanna perpetuate?

>>718397089
kek

>>718396865
>>718397061
Also to clarify, a lot of Union Cav hated their Henry Repeating Rifles because they would constantly jam. There was no cover where you inserted the rounds so they just got dirty and were a total pain in the ass. The technology wasn't quite there yet. Often times Confederate cavalry wouldn't even try to capture them and would just leave them behind.

>>718387109
They're heavy and costly. So it was fine for cuirassiers, who were widely deployed during the Napoelonic wars but those were elite heavy shock cavalry so it made sense. Supplying the infantry with steel breastplates? It would have been beyond retarded with all the heavy marching going on and the numbers involved.

>>718397013
>>718397213
There were some pretty big ACW battles as this anon said. Also it's important to note that Waterloo was more or less a last stand, an all or nothing decisive battle, whereas Gettysburg was not conclusive at all really and all it did was stop the CSA invasion before they fell back into the familiar defensive pattern around Richmond again.

Anyway, the American Civil War is cool to study even if you're not American. It's an interesting time in warfare, right as the technology is changing. For example, the moment an ironclad rolled off into the bay, every navy in the world instantly became obsolete.

>>718394376
They showed this ad on the TV here in austtralia and i'm so fucking baffled they bothered, the average Australian either hates America, has no understanding of what anything in the ad is or has such great respect for them they find it offensive

>>718397136
My favorite was putting gun cavalry behind my armstrong guns, cause they were tall enough to shoot over
It did just become a game of making invincible lines and waiting for the enemy to walk into them but I still had fun. Did the same thing in Empire, line infantry with superior tech and waiting until the enemy walked to their deaths

>>718382601 (OP)
its how the depopulated the countries there was no real wars it was all a show

>>718397589
I like the flow of battles in Empire a lot.

Making a fucked up kinked line and then swinging and maneuvering wings and flanks in as the battle develops, doing cavalry charges to roll up lines.

>>718382949
Is this some >historical movie showing berserkers or a Mastodon music video?

>>718397213
>I’m going to compare the winner of one battle to the lose in another
>the loser also disintegrated and had multiple portions of its army enveloped
Now do the CSA and the British. Better yet compare it to Austerlitz.

>>718397783
It's actually a pretty good sequence of dudes tripping out on shrooms before raiding the Rus

They're mercenaries though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmk7xRzeh54

>>718382601 (OP)
Yeah, it is weird. I remember "guerilla warfare" being a new vocab word in history when we got to the vietnam war and thinking "isnt that how most wars should be fought?". But then you grow up and realize that war is mostly about balancing male populations and you can tell them whatever bullshit you want about honor and dignity and they'll make a nice tidy pile of corpses in one spot that is easy to forget about.

>>718389652
>"muh conan"
>literally based on the original hamlet

>>718396572
There are interesting examples to this rule. One would be the way the swedes fought the russians in the great northern war. To deal with the numerically superior, yet undisciplined russians, the swedes developed the Gå-på maneuver:

Advance rapidly (sometimes outright running) in a loose formation until you could see the whites in the enemies' eyes. Halt, bring the rear ranks forth through the gaps in the formation, have them fire a volley, then advance even closer. Have the front ranks fire a volley, then immediately charge the enemy with pike, sword and bayonet. No reloading, no ranged slug matches, just maximized shock factor.

This worked because the russians feared the swedish forces to begin with, would regularly fire their volleys from completely inefficient ranges and easily routed when engaged in close quarters by the rapidly advancing swedish units. The distances from which the swedes fired their volleys were extremely effective against the russian massed units; sometimes the second volley was fired on the run, without halting, just meters from the enemy and seconds from reaching them in melee.

>>718382601 (OP)
There's something of an infantry revolution in the late middle ages. There's a whole load of reasons for it but basically battle tactics were less focused on heavy shock cavalry tactics and swapped to pike blocks and ultimately pike and shot.
But of course, the great counter to these blocks are field artillery, so they spread out into thin lines, which minimizes the damage a cannonball can do. All the while armoured heavy cavalry is becoming less and important and the firearm more important.
What you end up with are lines of men who use coordinated volleys to maximize the volume of shots since they are slow firing weapons.

>>718397873
How the hell do people like you fail to understand the progressive nature of history so utterly? Things develop over time. Line warfare developed out of something else that had existed for thousands of years.

Barry Lyndon is my favorite Kubrick film

>>718397574
Americans probably have no idea how the commonwealth works and think they are still colonies waiting to break free.

>>718395939
>what are jägers
>what are voltigeurs
>what are riflemen
Skirmishing musket infantry is old and that is exlusing the common tactic of splitting 1/10th of the unit off as an ad hoc skirmishing formation.

>>718395846
There are so many more things that factors into why they battled like this back then. I think the first thing that comes to peoples' mind here is "why didn't they fight like soldiers do in modern movies and games"; which would be something like scattered formation seeking cover where it could be found and surprising these large clusters of soldiers. This occurred by specialized units with experience. Light units, skirmishers, riflemen.

During the French revolution, the traditional ways of combating were questioned and put aside in some instances. The people of the republic had seen the 'mob' tactic work so well in Paris, taking the Bastille and so on, so why not take on the Prussian army in the same manner? They tried it, and it didn't work. The Prussian army was well-disciplined and well-organized. Even in those cases when they were outnumbered (which happened a lot during the French Revolutionary wars), they (the Prussian Army) still managed to stay their ground and put pressure. Because the French Revolutionary army tried the mob-tactic, it often caused panic and routing quite rapidly. They were already de-moralized by lack of food and proper equipment, so it didn't take a lot for these men to be overwhelmed. Another thing is that back then, there were no radios or ways to communicate immediately over long distances and try to organize these tens of thousands of men, officer to officer. All they could do was pass notes along a man mounted on horse, and hope he reached the intended officer without being killed in action or lost in the chaos. If the messenger didn't come back, another messenger was sent again. And you can imagine, each time the battlefield had changed slightly and new tactics were had to be improvised on the spot.

To move units of hundreds of men, drums and fifes were used to maneuver.

>>718396452
>Waterloo in Europe was branded as an apocalyptic battle
It's the first time I see someone describing Waterloo that way. What does make it worse than battles like Borodino, Wagram, Eylau, Aspern-Essling or Leipzig? Especially Leipzig?

>>718397873
Most wars in history were guerrilla wars. Sorry your dogshit education and lack of spark failed you

>>718387936
lmao

>>718382601 (OP)
They wouldn't really take that many volleys, and guns weren't terribly accurate, so they wouldn't lose that many men.
Also no, they generally stood a ways off and returned fire. The few troops well drilled enough to do this shit were infamously effective, though. Imagine this from the enemy's perspective.
A well trained line of troops walk right up to you in perfect lock step, completely ignoring the concept of death as they do so. When they're so close you can see their faces, they raise their guns, fire once, and charge in screaming.
What are you going to do then? You're going to fucking run away from the obvious psychopaths looking to stick you.

>>718382601 (OP)
https://youtu.be/cl7ElFROgts

>>718397213
>Waterloo

Lmao
Now try Borodino, Leipzig...

>>718384457
Ultimate General Civil War.
Campaign mechanics are controversial and the new American Revolution one is pretty shit, but the battles in UGCW do firing lines strategy like nothing else. Made/headed by the Darthmod guy too.

>>718382601 (OP)
>renaissance
Early modern*

>>718384457
It's more of a digital boardgame, but Victory and Glory: Napoleon is really cool

>>718397787
Nta but casualty numbers always have some caveats.
The ca. 28,000 dead at ca. 75,000 for the CSA at Gettysburg are pretty comparable to the French at Waterloo.
At austerlitz the French had absurdly low casualties while the Austro-Russiann alliance had absurdly high ones. Which might make it worth denying how uusall it was.
8,852 French casualties at ca. 73,000 men compared to the ca. 36,000 for a force of ca. 89.000 of the Habsburgs and Russians, which is a worse rate than what the CSA had at Gettysburg.
Nonetheless to quote myself comparing the Austro-Prussian War with the Ameriican Civil War:
ACW:
>1506 days
>CSA losses ca 864.000
>daily CSA losses ca. 574
>CSA losses at gettysburg: ca. 28.000
APW:
>38 days
>austrian losses ca. 165.100
>daily austrian losses ca. 4.345
>austrian losses at königgrätz: ca. 41.000
Which is a great example for all the possible caveats that come with those comparisons.

>>718398435
Agreed Waterloo was simply another big and important battle but nothing more.

>>718384849
>>718387819
>>718388843
look at current-day vietnam
they are a domesticated (conquered, vassalized) pleasure state with a side of manufactory, their peoples reduced to sex workers and laborers. effectively their populace lives beneath rule of their elected superiors as the vietnam war intended

i believe that's called a victory

I don't understand how cavalry was used for so long throughout the advent of firearms.
I know they were shock units and a two ton beast rushing you down isn't anything to scoff at but, like, you have a fucking gun. The things aren't trivially cheap to breed and train, getting peppered with bullets and/or artillery couldn't be that appealing of a prospect for the owners or the animal itself.

>>718386314
>the ease of training and lower cost associated with giving a rando a gun instead of having to train archers.
Loading and firing a muzzleloader is like an eight step process, anon. It's a lot more complicated than "pull this thing back and release."
Additionally if your worry is about training time, then realistically your worry is about overall expense, for which the hugely higher cost of the firearm would be more impactful than the training of the soldier.

>>718399428
Part of it that a large amount of time cavalry was used for recon and skirmishing. Charges were reserved for opportune situations where they had good positions. Large infantry formations are slow to maneuver so facing a sudden threat at their flank was something they could poorly react too.

>>718398760
"armchair tribals" more like, fucking bushmen with a highschool diploma trying to tell you your own histories kek

>>718382601 (OP)

Wars have always been about culling the herd killing the best/strongest men so that no one, apart from weak beta lapdogs, would be left to oppose a government should they push too far!!!FACT!!!

>>718399394
>pleasure state with a side of manufactory, their peoples reduced to sex workers and laborers. effectively their populace lives beneath rule of their elected superiors
thanks for summing up the current state of the USA

>>718395619
>Then Vietnam became one of the least murderous commie countries out there
Gotta give credit where it's due, post-'nam Vietnam was unfathomably based, telling China to fuck right off then beating the piss out of the Khmer Rouge.

>>718385871
No. There have been some mods for empire and napoopan but they are skirmish only

>>718399428
Rather a horse get shot than a man, even for the most pathological of commanders.
Plus with a horse on a charge, the issue of inaccuracy and reload time become much higher. You might get one volley off, then not be able to reload before you're charged again.

Ultimately though yes, cavalry were not simply charged forward over the battlefield into the front of line of men that had guns that were coincidentally also long pointy sticks. Ideally they'd be used to maneuver around, skirmish, take locations, try to get at the enemy artillery, or hit the enemy where they were weak and you could break the enemy line. A subsection of your force being able to move around and hit hard where it hurts is a pretty valuable thing.

>>718399958
yes, that's called democracy(tm)
the vietnam war was meant to install this system to vietnam
it worked
what's your confusion

>>718399362
nta, but the Austro-Prussian War is a completely different beast compared to the acw. The tech difference provided by the needle gun for the Prussians was off the scale

>>718399569
fucking retard, bowmen were usually some of the best trained soldiers in an army
the reason english longbows were so dominant isnt because the weapon is just OP but because archery training since childhood was enforced by law
you can train complete retards to use a crossbow or load a musket and be as effective in a week

>>718385452
>>718385572
>>718385672
All on Youtube too.

>>718387592
The cavalry charge got fucked by mud, which in turn allowed archers to fuck them. It's not a great example.

>>718394376
>Do not attempt. Professional Drivers on a closed course.
>it's just driving forward across a flat field

>>718400159
It's one the conflicts closest in time to the ACW, which was the main factor why I looked at it.
Crimean war could work too but also has a noticeable difference in armaments between both sides and highly varying casualtiy counts depending on sources.

>>718382601 (OP)
>white people just retarded
It's not retarded if it leads to global domination.

Line battle is what happened when 2 peer armies (European) met and decided to end it all after weeks of smaller battles and tactics to try kill the other. After weeks of trench warfare and attempting to flank, you line up and fire as many bullets at the enemy while getting close enough for grenades and to melee. Eventually one side will get scared and run, when enough people are running that's when you get to really kill the other and when people start dying. Running was more dangerous than the other.

There was skirmishers and harassing units that would fight asymmetrically but that would happen before the line battles in an attempt to weaken the enemy, make them weaker or if lucky just get someone important.

You also had the British army that incorporated the Highland charge which for a while was basically the best you can do en masse.

If you want to see pre modern warfare done retardedly look at the Chinese in the boxer revolution.

>>718385656
>>718385762
the game is over once you got fire by rank anyway

>>718400317
Bow training is super simple. People can pick the basics up in an afternoon. The onlyfacyor necessitating constant training is the upper body deformation required to use higher poundage bows, which still suck compared to muskets.

>>718387936
Lol you have to cope with Hollywood BS when in reality Cortez and a small group of his homies toppled the entire Aztec empire almost single handedly.
>But muh allies, the Tlaxcalans et al helped him!
Cope, those allies weren't always around and Cortez fought numerous battles without any allies where they absolutely clapped the Aztecs even out numbered 10 to 1 or more.

>>718387754
God Sharpe is just unrepentant kino

>>718400317
The actual skill involved in mass, field archery is essentially none, anon. It's a matter of strength and having the physical ability to wield a full pound war bow, not a matter of having the "skill" to fire at a certain angle upwards. You can get a kid to shoot a bow good enough to vaguely hit a target in like a minute. It's not hard, and battlefield archery was not some precision art.
>the reason English longbows were so dominant
They really weren't. Real life was not AoE 2, and Agincourt wasn't won via actual archery.
>but because archery training since childhood was enforced by law
You recognize that knights entire life was about martial training and preparedness, correct? Even in the period's you're describing, the archers were not the most trained on the field.

>>718392916
its honestly insane how garbage every post with this pic is
and its not even gigachad meme worthy take, its usually absolute dogshit takes or just flat out wrong takes
never looked up the history of the picture and maybe its part of the joke but I kinda doubt it

>>718382601 (OP)
Silence, brown

>>718389891
Not so fast, my barbarian friend.

There should be a name for the phenomenon of pussies in the age of information having no information or experience with aggression believing they would have been as influential as Napoleon with their juvenile comments.

Erm if european armies were so superior why could they never formally conquer Japan

>>718401076
>history of the picture and maybe its part of the joke
No way it is. The inspiration comes from a town meeting about rebuilding a burnt down school. With the subject of the painting, the farmer Jim Edgerton, dissenting out of concerns for the tax burden because his family farm got hit by a disease.
At it's core there is no reason for this painting to he associated with brain dead takes instead of the everyman taking part in the democratic process.

>>718382601 (OP)
>turn based irl combat
I know that was supposed to be how it worked then but it doesn't really make it any less retarded, especially because in previous times people used shield and armors. Sure I get that armor would get in the way but disposable armor used when marching forward would have been useful to avoid unnecessary casualties before it's your "turn" to shoot.

>>718382601 (OP)
>post-1700
>renaissance
>>>/his/

>>718401305
The only time white people ever attempted to conquer Japan (1945) they succeeded easily

>>718400579
The battles between Russians and Napoleon's armies are KINO.

>>718401571
Everything except particularly heavy armor (only really practical as a breastplate, not really some full suit), would not stop bullets from a full military musket.
Equipping every soldier with armor you expect to be disposing of would be an insane expense that no army in history could absorb.

>>718401156
What was even the point of bringing these bullets to India if they're not for killing brown rubbish?
To hunt tigers?

>>718401636
>click link
>someone saw >>718401156 get posted here, immediately saved it and made a thread with it there
Hahahahaha get seen FAGGOT

>>718402140
Killing brown rubbish but in an emergency.
The problem wasn't him shooting her, it was him shooting her when he could have just pulled her out of the way (which he still could have done, but it was made extra brutal for indian feefees)

>>718401156
why they take her child

>>718402182
you see, my post was satire: the OP is mindbogglingly retard, so he would fit in well on /his/, where similar morons dwell

>>718402073
I said disposable shields. Perhaps some a thick slap of wood on wheels in front of the first line would have been useful and mobile enough for these straight line combats.
This type of combat always devolved into melee anyways because at some point reloading was impossible and it was easier to just bayonet the shit out of the other. Still, some portable wood wall could have helped them to avoid some casualties until the range is short enough to make a charge and they could still be protection for the next line.
I guess it is indeed as the other anon said, jews didn't want white goyim to survive combat or have any advantage to maximize casualties on both sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKATzAmLaHg


How would you respond

>charge foward walking slowly
>get decimated
>OI M8 THESE BROOD OF VIPERS REALLY BE FIERCE LIKE LIONS SIR
>DONT BLOODY FAKING WORRY OL TIMMY KEEP CHARGING AT THE PACE OF A FAKIN SNAIL STRAIGHT INTO GUNFIRE

>>718382601 (OP)
>is this game real life
You're a dumb spastic. Read a fucking book if you want to know about battle tactics

>>718387936
>if I confuse the audience with enough camera cuts they'll be too disoriented to realize this doesn't make any sense

War evolved during the period. Firearms became more and more common during the 16th century. But early on it was cannon, cavarly, pikemen. Pikemen units would push into each other (push of pike), a kind of scrum. They were also resistant to cavalry charges (long pike, innit). But firearms and cannons provided an effective counter. Primitive arquebuses were short range and inaccurate and slow loading, so in reality you had units that were a mix of arquebuses and pikemen. The Spanish started doing this first, I think, fighting in Italy against France. The ranged would fire, protected by pikemen. And if you had enough, you'd get the thing where the first row fires, then ducks to reload while a second row fires over their head, that kinda thing. Meanwhile you had flanking movements and so on but mostly just a lot of brutal, bloody charges. Cavalry remained important too. For instance, what do you do on very uneven, hilly terrain? Wooded areas? Harder to shoot with your shit gun if you can't even see the enemy

>>718401156
It's always astonishing how awesome they make us look in their propaganda.
Pic related

>>718402507
>thick slap of wood on wheels in front of the
Have fun when artillery turns them into fragments

>>718402507
>I said disposable shields
You literally said disposable armor, anon.
Regardless, think of how heavy a steel shield thick enough to stop bullets and protect a reasonable proportion of your body would be. Wood wouldn't work unless it was even thicker/heavier.
>Armor on wheels
It'd get stuck constantly on most ground. Not to mention would be unable to get over any random fence, of which there were usually many because there weren't just convenient battlefields all over the place kept just for fighting sake.

Ultimately though yes, deploying heavier, mobile armor did turn out to be an effective tool once we developed the technology to make it practical. They were called tanks.

>>718402514
an
eye
for
an
eye

>>718396572
like who goes first in warhammer 40k tabletop, pretty much lol.

>>718402825
there are only a few things in life I can never get enough of and brown butthurt is one of them

>>718397873
Retarded American NOOTICER.

>>718382601 (OP)
Ill show you how it really was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK_wtjlQcns

>>718402514
>>718402976
to add
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patriot_(2000_film)#Historical_authenticity

The Patriot was criticized for misrepresenting atrocities during the Revolutionary War, including the killing of prisoners of war and wounded soldiers and Tavington's burning a church filled with civilians. Although historians have noted that both sides during the conflict committed atrocities, they "generally agree that the rebels probably violated the rules of war more often than the British" [citation needed]. According to Salon.com, the church-burning scene in the film is based on the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre committed by German forces in 1944, though "[there] is no evidence that a similar event took place during the American Revolution".[43] Historian Bill Segars noted that there was no record of the British ever burning a church full of civilians during the Revolutionary War,[44] though British and Loyalist forces did burn several empty churches such as the St. Philip's Church in Brunswick Town and Indiantown Presbyterian Church.[44][45][46][47]

>>718394376
Why wouldn't this work?

>>718402894
Anon, artillery can turn anything into fragments, including people.

>>718403573
Cars are very fragile when shot at, excluding the motorblock which will get destroyed but stop bullets.
Add in that most like that Mustang are shit offroad and you're left with a useless piece of metal.

>>718403612
True but it gets worse if you have to move a slow shield in front of you, making you an easier target, which also fragments, leading to a larger damage area from the cannon. It's like turning a solid ball into an HE round.

>>718400034
Vietnam really only went communist because of it's anti-imperialist values, it makes sense that they'd tell the chinese to fuck off l

>>718382601 (OP)
Marching slowly at an enemy firing at you was defiantly just Theatrics in a movie unless some retarded honor bound general actually managed to make his troupe do in real life it which i doubt.
People would only march in to position and then fire in Volley. In that specific scenario you posted OP the charging army would just star counter firing.
I imagine whoever was directing the movie just does not understand how warfare worked and assumed it was all just stoic men not afraid of death.
And if you actually wanted to engage an enemy already in firing formation and you could not counter fire you would use cavalry or have people charge them in a spreed out formation its what bayonets are for.
In fact charging at an enemy in a spreed out formation is how Zulu forces managed to win a couple of early fights but they did ultimately lose the war because you cant win vs guns whit spears.

>>718402507
You're essentially just describing field fortifications, which armies did build if they had the time. They weren't on wheels because that's retarded.

>>718401571
Cost effectiveness. Making them thick enough to protect against bullets is quite expensive, and nothing can protect against artillery.
Armor was still used for cavalry a la cuirassier, but they're usually proof against a couple long range shots at most and mainly aid in melee.

>>718403837
Forgot pick.

>be tribal
>village is attacked by evil colonial empire
>they shoot, reload for twenty minutes, then shoot again
>their strategy is heavily reliant on their opponent doing the same thing
>let's just run straight at them lmao

>>718382601 (OP)
This just pisses me off that we never got a proper singleplayer mod set in this era for Warband. Fuck you L'Aigle nigger.

>>718384265
the people replying cope are eurocucks who got defeated by america without a single bullet fired lmao

>>718403784
>Mustang

>>718403837
>whoever was directing the movie just does not understand how warfare worked
Nigger you're talking about Kubrick. When he was planning his Napoleon movie before he died, he had indexed 15k documents on early computers and had assembled a library of 500 books for the production staff to reference.

>>718404161
It not sure if it was clear in my post but my point was that running straight at them is a stupid idea

average modern army commander (before they retreat to their tent to try out the new batch of wine from their estate)

>>718402507
>This type of combat always devolved into melee anyways because at some point reloading was impossible and it was easier to just bayonet the shit out of the other.
Jomini is calling you a retarded faggot just on this alone

>>718383150
have kids before you go off on a foreign adventure

>>718404262
>Kubrick
Kubrick did not direct the patriot.

>this thread is better historical discussion than anything i've seen on /his/ in the past 3 months
Fuck I hate /his. Fuck that retarded board.

>>718400154
>Also the people at the top don't own anything.
You'll own nothing and have millions of happy servants.

>>718404598
Every board is the worst for discussing its intended subject.

>>718391620
>every other game they've released has mixed reviews
You got my hopes up for a second there. :(

>>718404660
^this
It's an inevitable fact.

>>718404716
Whoops, meant for
>>718392254

I'm not a history buff but I've genuinely never understood where this idea that wars in the 17/1800's were fought by just taking turns shooting at each other across a field came from. Like shouldn't the mere concept of bayonets tell you that that isn't how that shit went down?

>>718382601 (OP)
Your shitskin ancestors got conquered by that kek

Line infantry is a scheme to cull the working class.
The real battle is done by the artillery.

>>718384265
Yup, and Germany won WWII because they had a positive kdr

>>718404529
Could be a bait post, but that's Barry Lyndon.

>>718404836
The real battle is done by closing in with and destroying (routing) the enemy. Infantry fights are always decided by morale.

>>718403540
It was REAL in my mind!

>>718392254
>>718404716
>same devs as Naval Action
Instant no go.

>>718404161
>Benjamin (((Disraeli)))

>>718382601 (OP)
The idea is that you position yourself closer and your volley is more effective than the enemy who is reloading

>>718385656
This game was the peak of video games when it came out. I don't care what some say about it.

>>718382601 (OP)
Blame this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice,_Prince_of_Orange

>I must walk directly into gunfire knowing full well I am going to die or be severely maimed because....LE HONOR
Pre-WW1 soldiers were the IRL equivalent of Lawful Stupid. Thankfully long range artillery and machine guns happened to make people critically reassess war.

>>718382601 (OP)
>Be soldier
>advance on front line
>hear gunshot
>didnt hit me
>drop and play ded
It's literally THAT easy.

>>718406272
how you gonna explain your after-action behavior to the commanding officer? or are you hoping your team gets wiped?

>>718384265
Also worth noting at any time America could have decimated the North Vietnamese with Nukes but chose not to because politically it would have been untenable, same with the Korean war.
Militarily speaking the only thing that has defeated White nations have been traitors from within, that is other White people acting as a Fifth column.

>>718382601 (OP)
>says something something white people in OP
>all of the responses to the blatant bait
good bait

>>718385556
>Hasn't seen Golden Eye
Sean Bean's character, 006 had a posh accent.
https://youtu.be/MkupPPjS4u0?si=bmWQb6gzMVxD4dSH&t=48

>>718406238
Bad meme.

>>718406272
You can pretend to be injured nowadays too, but most soldiers don't.

>>718406613
I'd get up and moonwalk back to safe place while my comrades fight.

>>718406238
And now we're in the era where practically everything expensive becomes obsolete as a bunch of cost efficient doritos wreck everything with pin-point accuracy...

>>718407294
That's nonsense and the same argument could have been applied to just about anything and everything throughout history.

>>718407294
It just looks that way because one side is thoroughly incompetent and the other was the poorest nation in Europe and thus couldn't afford expensive things.

>>718406238
>Steps out of line formation because he thinks he knows best
>Immediately gets run down by enemy cavalry skirmishers.
You're an idiot.

>>718400423
It's the musket shots they're warning about

>>718399394
>they are a domesticated (conquered, vassalized) pleasure state
Vassal of whom?

>>718407517
No, it's literally the problem. It's fine if you want to somehow justify the cost effectiveness of running Challengers, Leopards or practically any armored vehicles into a destruction derby for years on end but it's completely delusional to assume that tank warfare will ever remain the same. Considering that some of the Syrian skirmishes along the eight year period had hundreds of tanks in desert conditions ran into scrap metal in actual tank combat, in comparison the vast majority of Ukraine is littered with seventeen times the debris while there have been a grand total of two major tank battles, one in the Zapo direction in 2023 and the second in Kursk. There wouldn't be such a high demand for nests on the field, nor such a rabid industrialization running solely on the drone industry if that was the case.

>>718385556
Sharpe was originally a cockney urchin. He was never posh.

>>718408092
Neither side is capable of so much as gaining air superiority. Stop trying to portray modern warfare based on how two third world shitholes fight.

>>718384265
>America just got bored and went home
That's literally the lose condition of an offensive war, dumbass.

>>718407757
More like
>gets noticed and immediately beaten back into line by a sergeant
That anon doesn't realise NCOs were there to keep the men in literal order during battle

>>718407426
>That's nonsense
Absolutely not, I've seen videos numbers in the 100s now of fpv suicide drones that cost around $1000 with some explosives attached take out armoured personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles even main battle tanks like the Challenger 2, the Leopard 2, the M1A2 abrams and a bunch more.
All happened in Ukraine vs Russia and that's not to mention all those drones acting in a swarm can, have and are taking out troops in the hundreds on both sides.
There still isn't a viable counter to drone warfare.
You can deploy half measures like drone nets, have active guards, or try AA but because of their size the problem is detecting them in the first place is incredibly difficult and even if you do, so what? Because of the cost effectiveness of drones you can have 10 more back in the air immediately.

>>718382601 (OP)
>Were white people just retarded
Insulting your betters is the same as insulting yourself.

>>718385294
The army that left camp boulogne was the most drilled of all these wars. After that, France kept loosing men an never managed to have the time to properly train its troop again. UK barely participated to the war and even with that, it took them decades to be able to defeat French conscript.

>>718408546
>I've seen videos
Awesome. You've subjected yourself to confirmation bias without any actual military training or understanding of warfare; not on the tactical, the operational or the strategic level. Neither are you aware of modern military developments or how the idea of having to go either light and dispersed (Ukraine war right now) or very heavy and very concentrated (neither side is capable of this) due to modern ISTAR and accurate fires (drones!) being a topic of discussion for more than two decades now, completely bypassing whatever argument you're trying to make.
>There still isn't a viable counter to drone warfare.
Just like there isn't a "viable counter" to artillery or air bombardments or being shot by a rifle or machine gun. It doesn't matter. People die, and the consumption of human resources and equipment to accomplish military objectives is par for the course. What matters ultimately is the leveraging of combined arms methods to achieve full spectrum supremacy. Something which neither side in the Ukraine conflict is even close to being capable of, because both countries are third world ex-soviet shitholes.

>>718409181
77th brigade says what?

Americans should be embarrassed they needed to be bailed out by the french

>>718409359
So, what? You're brown and this obsession on drones is your way of thinking you and your inferior people have some kind of ability to defeat white western militaries in combat? Keep on dreaming, Muhammad.
Western liberalism is coming to an end and with it the West's tolerance of insubordinate slave races.

>>718409181
You said it: resources. What is best, buying a tank or 13k drones?

>>718408041
>also target ID then:
>They have a different flag than us! Fucking Shoot!!!
>You can see the whites of their eyes! Fucking Shoot!!!
>They're standing directly opposite of us! Fucking Shoot!!!

>>718383986
How's Rhodesia doing, white boy?

>>718388601
This was a much better thread than other rage baiting and coomer threads that fill the catalog

>>718409840
>this rage bait thread is better than other rage bait threads
Low bar to start with.

>>718409540
The tank. Because the tank can actually maneuver on a battlefield and can take part in decisive operations where the enemy is actually defeated, potentially bringing an end to the war and gaining you victory. It's also nowhere near as vulnerable to countermeasures as the cheap drone is.
All the drones do is let you fight a failed attritional war like the one going on in Ukraine. Is that really what you want? To turn a three-day-operation into years of failure and a million dead with no strategic objectives achieved?

Actual worthwhile militaries have the resources to take BOTH the drones AND the tanks. Having to choose between the two is something irregular forces or third world countries are subjected to, while genuine militaries vie for full spectrum dominance.

>>718399394
The US is a vassal for Israel.

>>718409523
What can be said with 100% certainty is that the French regret helping the Americans against the British.

>>718407426
>the heat death of the universe will make tanks obsolete
Kek, now I'm picturing Vadim in his T-34 floating through a void of nothingness

>>718388601
I thought I was on /tv/ to be honest fäm.

>>718409957
Lmao. Tanks are fucking obsolete, retard. Any tank "maneuver" is immediately spotted by the drones and then multiple fpv drones are flying in your direction to stop the tank column, and as soon as half of the tanks are immobilized, the artillery is already fired at their position. Any oldschool tank maneuver warfare is absofuckinglutely impossible in the modern war.

>>718409537
What was your assignment today soldier?

We have plenty of exemples of what happened when uppity brownoids faced the "retarded" European tactic of line warfare

>>718409540
It's a bot, I wouldn't bother replying in earnest. It searched for key words and gave a boiler plate chat gpt enabled response.

>>718408241
air superiority would not stop fpv drones. you would still be faced with every house potentionally harboring a drone strike team that can direct that drone directly into the rear of the tank at an altitude of 50cm and using cover to approach if need be. from kilometres away.

>>718410296
>Any tank "maneuver" is immediately spotted by the drones
Those drones are shot down.
>and then multiple fpv drones are flying in your direction to stop the tank column,
Those don't make it into the AO because of EW or are also shot down.
>and as soon as half of the tanks are immobilized, the artillery is already fired at their position.
Those artillery guns don't exist anymore because the air force + counter battery fires blew them the fuck up hours ago, because you thought air superiority didn't matter because lol drones.

>Any oldschool tank maneuver warfare is absofuckinglutely impossible in the modern war.
It's a good thing modern militaries do combined arms maneuvers and not just "tank maneuvers" like your stupid video-watching ass assumes.

>>718410445
So what? Who gives a fuck about lost vehicles and lost lives? What matters is winning the war. War isn't a match of War Thunder.

>>718410102
>that time all of the domesticated cattle of the American political clique gave Netanyahu a minutes long standing ovation at the height of his controversy
>current administration is under their thumb and every recent past administration has only been slightly different in their stance on Israel
It's just crazy, Israel is on the cusp of pulling off the most retarded irl cultural victory of all time.
Or by the standards of Civ, maybe it's more of a religion victory.

>>718409957
>Because the tank can actually maneuver on a battlefield andACK

you are blind to reality dude. a tank cant maneuver at all. it will just run into a mine.

>>718410614
>French Commanders and Leaders
>Thomas-Alexandre Dumas
>Father of Alexandre Dumas who wrote The Count of Monte Cristo
Interesting.

>>718387754
>OERRRR THE HILLS AND OER THE MANE
>FROM FLANDERS PORT - U - GAL AND SPAIN

>>718409957
MBT as a concept is a fucking dead anon, it was on deathbed even before drones entered picture. Tanks are essentially delegated to being armored self propelled infantry guns instead of anything resembling breakthrough element.

>>718387754
>>718410929
There will never be a show like it again. Hornblower comes close, but I see them as complimentary to each other rather than competing.
Sharpe is the Army, Hornblower is the Royal Navy.
Here's a posted 17 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fy3tSim3to&list=RD-Fy3tSim3to&start_radio=1

>>718410793
>anon who gets his understanding of warfare from videos has no idea what the operational level of warfare is

>>718410973
No. Tanks are armored mobile firepower. Until you can find something that does the job better than an MBT, MBTs are still going to be used. That's all there is to it.

>>718410738
>Those drones are shot down.
by whom?

>>718410869
The French pioneered DEI before it was cool

>>718411123
By all the C-UAS systems involved.

>>718410738
>anon has example of modern full scale conflict streaming fucking live using all the standard issue equipment available and still fucking copes with holy chairforce that absolves us from enemy forces
I am convinced it is fucking religion at this point.

>Muh tanks
>Muh drones
Who fucking cares, should I play Total War Empire or Napoopan

>>718411085
Hornblower was more believable
Sure it was still about a British supersoldier defeating multiples enemies on its own, but it felt less cartoonish than Sharpe who routinely defeated entire French regiments on its own

>>718411087
>>anon who gets his understanding of warfare from real combat footage, while you post cartoon pictures of how some out of touch boomer imagines things will play out.

>>718411347
No, you fucking retard. You are subjecting yourself to confirmation bias because you are looking at the one weapon system that not only films its own functioning but is also having its work published online. You are building your understanding of what's going on on incredibly biased material and you are too stupid and ignorant to realize it.

>>718410738
>Those drones are shot down.
Holy retard. There is literally nothing to stop hundreds of those drones. There isn't a single army in the world capable of effectively shooting down those kind of small drones.
>EW
Holy fucking retard. No EW works even in Ukraine war, where they constantly tweak and upgrade their EW systems. The standard issue EW systems can be just thrown away as garbage, because they are outdated by at least 10 years. Also EW hits both sides, affecting your own communication, so a retarded argument in the first place. Also fucking optic fiber drones exist which are absolutely invulnerable to it.
>Those artillery guns don't exist anymore because the air force
Retard thinks air force is magic. They dig mortars into the ground in the forests, completely covered by the trees and trap doors, so that they won't be spotted from the drone.
>combined arms
Holy retard, every single element of those combined arms is vulnerable to drones. They are immediately spotted and hit by FPV drones, which are literally cannot be countered by fucking anything.
Not to mention drones that drop bombs from high altitude, drones that setup antitank mines deep inside your territory, long range drones using drone signal retranslators, etc etc. The only effective counter-measure against it is anti-drone drones, which no country currently mass produces. Which means any "modern" combat military will be absolutely fucking REKT in modern combat, because they've been preparing for the past wars for their whole life.

>>718411281
none of those can engage or even detect an fpv drone flying at cat level

>>718411430
The Sharpe series was made on a shoe-string budget, it's about using your imagination to imagine that each soldier counts for ten. I've seen it so many times I've seen the same French soldiers killed in one episode appear in the next, you just have to hand wave those things due to budget constraints and come to realise it's about the entire product is greater than the sum of it's parts.
Also Jane is a fucking cunt.

>>718411347
>Anon can't understand why the two biggest inheritors of an army whose air doctrine was "fuck it, too expensive, go all in on GBAD" don't use the full potential of airpower against each other

>British: "Those American idiots can't hope to stand against our firing lines."
>Americans.: "Bet you I can shoot that dumbass officer off his horse from that farm house."

>>718411351
>Who fucking cares, should I play Total War Empire or Napoopan
Yeah the thread is devolving from raging over OP's bait to just military jargon. As for Total War I'd say probably Napoleon, I recall Empire having a lot of issues, at least on release. Napoleon was released after and had a better reception so I assume a lot of the issues of Empire aren't present in Napoleon. And in Napoleon, you get to play everyone's favorite frenchie.

>>718401156
lmao

>>718411691
You know Americans were losing heavily until the French entered the war?
Proof is war of 1812, the French did not intervene and the Americans lost, had the White house burned down by the Brits.

>>718411470
See: >>718411480 you stupid fucking nigger.

>>718411546
>Holy retard. There is literally nothing to stop hundreds of those drones. There isn't a single army in the world capable of effectively shooting down those kind of small drones.
Directed energy weapons work more than well for that purpose. The Epirus Leonidas for example.
Those small drones are also exceptionally vulnerable to other forms of electronic warfare, as they're small and cheap, so can't have adequate hardening or speed to avoid it. If they did, you'd end up just having a traditional ATGM.
>No EW works even in Ukraine war, where they constantly tweak and upgrade their EW systems.
Literally up to 80% of drones used by the Ukrainians fail to reach their targets due to EW. It takes up to 40 minutes to get them on target.
>Also fucking optic fiber drones exist which are absolutely invulnerable to it.
And are also ridiculously less maneuverable, to the point they are far easier to detect and shoot down than FPV drones. They can also be tracked back to their launch sites very easily, considering the fiber optic cable they leave behind.
>Retard thinks air force is magic. They dig mortars into the ground in the forests, completely covered by the trees and trap doors, so that they won't be spotted from the drone.
And then those mortars can't fire at anything, and are effectively suppressed, allowing the enemy to advance and maneuver. Hiding means you aren't fighting.
>Holy retard, every single element of those combined arms is vulnerable to drones.
As they are to artillery, air force, being shot and blown up in general. Somehow they still exist and work well, wonder why that is?
>which are literally cannot be countered by fucking anything
DEW, C-UAS and EW all counter drones adequately.
>will be absolutely fucking REKT
No. Your shithole country will get curbstomped.

>>718411558
The FPV drone is incapable of flying at cat level far from the pilot and in an environment full of EW.

>>718401156
LMAO im definitely going to hell

>>718411771
>Empire having a lot of issues
Correct. Napoopan's map also covers a smaller area which is beneficial due to being more granular, unlike 1 province france.
Sadly the smaller time period also means less tech and changes in armies through the game.
Both siffer from the AI being too retarded for the time periods warfare though.

>>718411281
>retard doesn't understand that tiny mavics are on a completely different tactical level than those huge military drones
None of those systems are able to reliably spot and react to FPV drones, no to mention a high altitude drops from drones. They fly either super low, or super high and are too tiny. They can land anywhere on the battlefield and react to motion, prompting the operator to take off and hit the target if they spot something. No modern APS is capable of hitting drones.

>>718411480
>he thinks it's a confirmation bias
There were a shitton of videos using Javelins and NLAWs at the very first stages of conflict, however they quickly became completely outmatched by drones. There is literally no counter to them.

>>718412607
> no to mention a high altitude drops from drones
>radar and AI-driven optics can't spot drones flying in the air
Now you've gone into outright delusional territory, and it's more than obvious you don't have the faintest fucking idea of anything.

>>718412056
>Directed energy weapons work more than well for that purpose.
They literally don't exist besides a couple of experimental weapons. Also they are ridiculously expensive and take a shitload of time to kill. Any attack from the suddenly appearing FPV drone or a couple of drones attacking from the different sides, and it's dead. Again a dirt cheap chinese drone kills a multimillion dollar machine that you will never even have at a squad level because of how expensive it is.
>Literally up to 80% of drones used by the Ukrainians fail to reach their targets due to EW.
Literally false. Modern drones switch channels like crazy, it's impossible to simply jam the control signal.
>And are also ridiculously less maneuverable
Lol, still impossible to take down.
>And then those mortars can't fire at anything,
Sure thing, lol. Especially when all the counter artillery radars will be blown up by FPV drones, because they have to emit to work. Suppressed my ass.
>As they are to artillery, air force, being shot and blown up in general
Not even nearly on the same level. Are you really comparing some shitty arty to the god's eye view on the battlefield that you can fly anywhere and then blow anything up?
>DEW, C-UAS and EW all counter drones adequately.
They will get blown up in the very few days of the war and then won't ever be replaced because of how fucking expensive they are, retard. They were literally never designed to counter drones that pop up from the fucking ground level and are tiny and made of plastic.
>No. Your shithole country will get curbstomped.
Lmao, every single modern tank, even Abrams, were absolutely annihilated by drones. There is absolutely no counter to this and you are just coping.

>>718404074
>without a single bullet fired

>>718411351
Napoopan's battle AI was serviceable I believe while Empire's was straight broken trash. Even with how cool the idea is of a multi-theater campaign, hopping around the globe taking shit, couldn't save it from the abhorrently bad AI. Genuinely CA should have been sued for releasing that as a product and never fixing it.
Honestly don't know if Napoopan's battle AI is a 1-1 port, but I found it did the blobbing schizo manuerving shit less often. Still too much from 0, but I suppose expectations must be tempered from le small family company.

>>718384265
Don't try to teach these retards actual hostory. They can only think in memes.

>>718412846
>They literally don't exist besides a couple of experimental weapons.
>Lasers and microwaves don't exist
I'm not going to give you any more attention after this ludicrous statement. Literal insanity, complete detachment from reality.

>>718412821
>le AI will save us
Hello saar. No AI-driven optics is a reliable anti-air solution because fucking birds exist. SAM operators immediately disable them because of all the false positives. Also just spotting it doesn't help, you cannot shoot down something that tiny, you cannot even calculate a proper firing solution. Also again, low level flying FPVs are literally impossible to deal with anyway.

>>718412861
That's not what defeated europe though. Blame it on germtards for priming europe to get dimma dollar'd

>>718382601 (OP)
you're the retarded one for asking a question that's been asked and answered a million times already

>>718412056
>The FPV drone is incapable of flying at cat level far from the pilot and in an environment full of EW.
you dont even know about wire guided drones and you feel you can lecture us here. maybe you should reflect at your own possible biases towards drones and tanks.

>>718382601 (OP)
No it's not accurate because they removed all the cavalry, field artillery and trenches/traps.

>>718413105
>you dont even know about wire guided drones
>literally talked about them in that exact post
Are you even a human being?

>>718382601 (OP)
>be a white male
>die in a pointless war at the ripe age of 18 because your monarch wants to play tin soldiers
>B-BUT WE CONQUERED THE WORLD!
and how did that work out for the white race? exactly

>>718408250
It wasn't an offensive war. The goal was to train the useless Arvin to fight their own war. America finally got tired of hippies crying, so they abandoned Vietnam to fight on their own, which they lost instantly. The north was generous enough to offer re-education instead of elimination to the surviving south.

>>718412958
>muh EW
its completely useless dude.

>>718413050
>AI-driven optics
>talks about issues that plague radar
You genuinely have to be an LLM, at this point.

>>718412958
They literally don't exist as a mass produced weapon, you stupid fucking nigger. To be anywhere remotely usable they require shitton of power, and that makes them ridiculously expensive and huge. What's the point of having a single super expensive anti-air unit that will die from the very first random shell or a dirt cheap drone.

>>718401156
Jeets are so low I.Q. they genuinely believe that we English are this evil, while also wanting more than anything to live in England.

>>718412520
>1 province france
>1 fucking province france
God, I remember thinking that was the single dumbest thing I had ever seen in a game. I was downright pissed that they thought reducing one of the major players in europe to just a single province would be reasonable. I think I recall campaigns where the AI would stupidly overextend itself (all too easy with just one province) and then get wiped by a single decent army striking the capital. Just such a dumb campaign by design alone. And I agree about Napoleon's issue being the smaller time scale, which means less of an impressive sense of change and evolution over time.

>>718407426
Drones have already made tanks obsolete though. It's literally just shittier self propelled artillery at this point.

>>718413269
>birds
>radar
Are you retarded or just pretending? Also again, comparing a tiny squad-level weapon with a strategic asset.
>muh super advanced giga-expensive AI-driven radar system can spot this drone that can be fired by a single soldier in a squad
Like yeah, even if it was capable of doing all that, it will still die to a random shell, and it won't be ever replaced, the specialists that were operating it will never be replaced, unlike a cheap FPV that required a tiny squad of illiterate goons to operate.

>>718413598
eh, Wargame EE didn't thought of that.

>>718384265
>>718412927
>lol they just got bored after winning battles kek
>Don't teach retards actual hostory. They only think in memes
That is the memetic coping response, no actual history inclined individual would describe the complexities of that war in such a way. A war is won based on objectives achieved, not battles won. Battles are in service to achieving the primary and stated objective.

I think I've seen some variation of this posted on a weekly basis for like the past 10 years. Yes, European armies were extremely disciplined and would basically just line up in a row to shoot each other until one side ran away. It was necessary because the firearms of the time were inaccurate and there isn't any cover in open fields anyway. It obviously worked pretty well because anytime they employed these tactics against non-European armies they would decimate them. Can we move on please

>>718412846
>Literally false. Modern drones switch channels like crazy, it's impossible to simply jam the control signal.
https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/special-resources/tactical-developments-during-third-year-russo-ukrainian-war
>Between 60 and 80% of Ukrainian FPVs fail to reach their target, depending on the part of the front and the skill of the operators
You could read the reports of guys actually doing fieldwork and looking in depth at how the war is going instead of spouting whatever you're putting together in your head

>>718412861
Bad example.
Most of D-Day landings had virtual no opposition.
Exception is Omaha Beach because the Air Force the Navy missed their shots.

posting epic history kino

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl7ElFROgts

>>718412927
>Don't teach these imbeciles their history my fellow! They are uneducated a simply know not of what's good for them!
>The one he's quoting is a extra chromosome carrying milk brained dung eater
Anon you're hilarious! You make company of children and retards thinking that's the epitome of culture. He could've posted:
>I drink my piss and eat my shit but hell yeah brother USA USA
Yet you ignore the table manners, and give the guy a loving kiss on the lips. What a hero.

>>718382601 (OP)
the important thing is that it was very kino

>>718397965
>"muh hamlet"
>literally a fictional work like conan

>>718382949
>me every full moon
awooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

>>718414063
>I think I've seen some variation of this posted on a weekly basis for like the past 10 years.
Yeah, it's posted because it can usually bait out responses. And as in this OP, add in some basic race commentary bait like "wow whites really do be like this" and then you get tons of angry (You)s. It's just easy bait.

>>718385795
6 month war not really enough for a whole game is it

>>718414091
then where are the tank platoons maneuvering? obviously even 40% are enough to stop them. that just shows how good drones are and this is with basically static frontlines, in actual maneuvering when electronic jammers cant keep up with the armoured spearhead, the drones would go even more ham on the tanks and even if not, they can always just drop mines in the way. mines can also be dropped by artillery rounds now, limiting a tanks mobility even more. there is still a place for apcs and ifvs on the modern battlefield, but the mbt is really in deep shit right now. and it will only get worse when actual AI guided drones hit the field eventually. i can also see smaller cheaper tanks that are AI piloted or remote controlled actually working in some capacity. but mbts... nu uh.

>>718382601 (OP)
Bro the British were ordered to march towards trenches under machine gun fire during WW1.

>>718414135
They didn’t miss. The problem was that the DD Shermans were deployed too far from the shore and sank

>>718404716
If you can get over the unexplainable campaign autism shit then it is quite enjoyable for naval battles. But I couldn't.

>>718414687
You’re retarded and don’t understand anything about WWI, be quiet.

>>718409159
>The army that left camp boulogne was the most drilled of all these wars.
It had to leave camp going the wrong way though because at sea the British were very much capable of beating French conscripts.

>>718382601 (OP)
Baed white people dying like flies so i can lay around and collect free checks!

>>718414687
Not much machine gun fire going on when a dozen batteries are hammering the enemy lines.

>>718415056
well crafted bait, i am feeling murderous rage

>>718397873
>realize that war is mostly about balancing male populations
perhaps that could be a small subsection of reasoning many moving actors trigger war, but the larger factors are things like governing, wealth, monetary policy, and national banking.

>>718382949
Germanics aren't people

>>718391156
...what?

>>718415098
thats what they thought

>>718382601 (OP)
Your thread would be sad if it wasn't so hilarious. Shitskins genuinely can't comprehend the concept of history.

>>718384265
The important distinction is that the US lost politically and not militarily. It's a reflection of the weakness of mass democracy, and not real military prowess.

Nonwhites broadly do not fight well due to just a hard IQ and often physical inferiority. Asians do much better than people like Africans however, and can generally score genuine wins against overstretched and isolated European colonies (like the first Vietnam war).

Only thing nonasians have ever accomplished against whites was uhhh that one time Italy lost against Ethiopia? But that was against like a literal handful of malnourished Italians and they had straight up European advisors there telling them where to dome the wops.

>>718415827
What's hilarious about the decline of mankind?

>On first sighting the br*wn "male" seethe thread, I naturally gave the order to Sharpepost.
>That's my style, sir.

>>718396452
>Civil War is so interesting and the casualties are so high
Were they? From what I read their biggest battles compare your standard casualties of failed rebellion in Bumfuckigrad, Balkans.

>>718415882
Monkey cage fights will never get old.

>>718415848
france lost in algeria and the brits lost in rhodesia, portugal lost in mozambique and angola.

>>718416071
But the monkeys aren't in the cage, they're right here online posting with us.

>>718416085
Literally all cases of political losses and very distinctly not military losses. If you want the high water mark of nonwhite military achievement, you need to go back to Tsushima and the Mongols bullying the Kievan Rus.

>>718415848
>Only thing nonasians have ever accomplished against whites was uhhh
Isandlwana and Little Bighorn, bro?

>>718415848
>Nonwhites broadly do not fight well
Are slavs "white"?

>>718404262
Yeah well he was retarded given that portrayal. They wouldn't march under continuous volley fire like that because their opposition wouldn't even be firing at them yet... Neither side would start shooting until they were right up in each others' shit because they were all using smoothbore muskets at that point, which had dogshit accuracy beyond 50-75 yards. That's the entire reason they marched and fired in massed line formations, because unless you had a whole shitload of dudes all firing en masse at another shitload of dudes, you probably weren't going to hit anything.

It wasn't until the mid 19th century that armies started fielding rifled muskets using lead minie balls in large quantities, which allowed for accuracy at much longer ranges. And that innovation almost instantly saw armies stop using line infantry tactics because what that scene shows actually started happening, IE: your forces would get dropped hundreds of yards out.

But Barry Lyndon doesn't take place in 1860, it takes place in like 1750. So its retarded nonsense.

>thread is just bait, race posting, military dick measuring, flag waving, maybe only a modicum of game discussion or decent historical takes
At least there is a bit of discussion about Total War, so it almost feels like a videogame thread. The introduction of populist politics to mid-western teens with nothing better to do than shitpost was a mistake.

>>718409715
is this really what you want to gloat over? the cut-off white country that casually took 1-20 fights but eventually succumbed to local sentiment and allowed Rhodesia to be transformed into the vibrant shithole that is Zimbabwe?

like really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORBBap-m0tY

>>718416848
They fight like the Chinese just throwing waves of men at any problem.

>>718416763
True, but these battles didn't end up making a difference in the ultimate result of their respective conflicts. The Zulus and Amerindians still lost decisively, to the point where both are recalled fondly for patriotic sentiment.

>>718416976
>That's the entire reason they marched and fired in massed line formations
It's not the entire reason, since dispersed troops would also have no meaningful protection against cavalry. They'd just get run down and routed with ease.
But then on the other hand, you can't focus too many troops together, because artillery would then be a huge threat.

>>718382949
No. I don't think so. I don't think people did that type of stuff ever. Hold on a moment. I think I see the issue. This is from a TV show or a movie or something, TV shows aren't generally reality.

>>718416763
brits didn't win... a 10 nonwhites to 1 anglo battle...no...nooooooooooooooooooo

>that time Anglos surrendered to pajeets
>hundreds of them got locked up in a cramped hot jail with no water
KWAB

I love seeing tankfaggots getting ACK'd by modern warfare and seeing their dogshit vehicles enter the same place in modern warfare dreadnoughts had.

>>718418442
>the same place in modern warfare dreadnoughts had.
Continuation as battleships for decades into the future?

>>718384265
>fuck the
Fuck the what? I don't get it. Did candleja

helicopters are still supreme.

>>718384868
>muh heckin discipline it's actually BASED and REDPILLED to stand in the line of fire and die instead of using your brains to create and take cover

>>718418834
Supreme death traps.

>>718419008
It's BASED and REDPILLED because it leads to brownoids like you being conquered and enslaved by your superiors.

>>718419008
Running away isn't taking cover subhuman-kun.

>>718382601 (OP)
Line battle Total War games >>>>>>>> Regular Total War games

It's a pity that all of them are bugged and have shit AI due to the complexity of the battle mechanics. But basically

Napoleon >>>> Fall of the Samurai >>>>> Attila >>>>> Medieval 2 >>>>> Shogun 2 >>>>>> the rest

miss me with all that warhammer shit
I love WHF but i dont need three of those games, one would have been enough.

>>718419206
Also it's a shame we will NEVER EVER get Victoria Total War, which would have probably been the best setting for a TW ever.

>>718416085
>The Brits lost in Rhodesia
You retard

>>718418442
Providing unmatched mobile firepower?

>>718419285
literally Empire

>>718419351
Are there any mods that make that shit playable.

>>718382601 (OP)
some things never change

>>718419351
Empire is like 150 years to early for Victorian TW.

>>718385556
>Sharpe
>Posh
Secondaries need not apply

>>718419008
You think everyone back then were just braindead, and you're smarter than people like Napoleon? Skirmishers did take cover, and without line infantry to back them up, they would get fucked by cavalry.

>>718420129
>noon you don't understand I'm le hecking smart man
>obviously everyone in the past was big dum dum with all their problematic opinions

>>718420323
well he lost, so obviously mistakes were made.

>>718420129
napoopan would mess his french undies if i told my troops to not walk in a straight line at him

>>718420628
All his contemporaries used the same tactics.

>>718400034
Communist Veitnam had more success fighting against communism than the US did.

>le slowly walking towards enemy meme

Do people really not understand how volleys work?
Are you really this brown?

I bet you think the same about WW1.

>>718419141
It brings equal measures of joy and despair that /pol/ is so low IQ they actually think people are "brown" for being capable of thinking of simple tactics as "have cover so you don't get shot". Seeing Caucasians die in droves meaninglessly sure seems to make you all sorts of elated, which is rather suspicious.

>>718420690
back then armies werent large enough to form a frontline over a large area like in ww1. if you choose to not engage his army he will just move onto your cities and besiege them while his cavalry ravages your countryside.

>>718420690
He would probably outmarch you in the operational map and you would give up without a fight when he shows up with superior numbers. Or Ney would launch a cavalry charge when he sees your unruly mob of special smart troops taking individual pot shots who are not organized to defend against cavalry.
Realistically they would just go around some retard like you who's not a threat and march on your capital, and you'd be forced to actually concentrate your troops or lose it.

>>718421276
>"have cover so you don't get shot"
>cavalry runs you over and your side loses the battle - everyone dies
Damn, you really are brown. Discipline is the white man's business, after all. Can't expect the lesser races to partake.

>>718421280
>>718421314
i manage to slip behind his massive group of retards walking forward and simply take HIS capital
one for one, who loses in this situation

>>718414167
buy an ad

>>718420690
you would lose firepower by not walking in a dense pulk with multiple firing lines, thus actually allowing the enemy to come closer with superior firepower.

>>718422871
were white horses mandatory or something?

>>718422772
Still impressive how many guys they used for the movie.
A square usually would be >1000 men so just the amount of people in that one overhead shot is insane.

>>718422772
why didn't they just make one really big square instead of a bunch of little ones

>>718422871
>>718422772
so many horses, imagine the smell of all that horseshit on the ground.

>>718419558
Yes, the Empire Total War 2 mod.

Although I've been playing Vanilla for a couple of weeks now and it's great. I hated the guts out of it in the first days ngl. Specially the new tech system you have to do research on. But in the end it surprised me how good it actually was for your campaign.

>>718423102
you need line of sight to fire. you have more firepower by forming more firing lines. then small pulks are easier to lead than one big one. also harder to hit for enemy field cannons and harder to get outflanked by cavalry.

>>718422353
if the austrians had chosen to attack paris when napoleon was at austerlitz they would have lost the entire country and had theri emperor in chains before even crossing the rhine. similar it would have been a very long way for the russians to go to paris when napoleon was at moscow.

>>718423319
>Empire Total War 2 mod
>60 gb of bloated ai slop, pic related
No thanks

>>718422353
Ok, you both refuse to fight in this retarded scenario and you swap countries. Now if either of you actually wanted to defend your strategic objectives, you'll have to fight at some point and he blows you out with modern tactics while your men fight like an uncoordinated Germanic or Gallic tribe from ancient times. There's a reason why linear tactics developed to dominate this era, they didn't do it just for shits and giggles (or honor or something retarded, they actually wanted to win their wars.)

>>718421365
>cavalry will magically teleport behind cover
>also u-u-u-u-u-u-ur BROOOOOOOOOOOOWN LOOK MOMMY I SAID IT AGAIN WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO TENDIES TONIGHT GOD DAMMIT BITCH
Every day, the IQ of /pol/ decreases.

>>718423948
>cavalry will magically teleport behind cover
No, they ride.

>>718423208
>Weak man bothered by horse shit
You're a pussy.

>>718423948
Do you have dense cover for tens of thousands of soldiers on your average battlefield? Not unless you're parked in a forest, but then again, then the enemy just marches on your cities. You'll have to fight out in the open at some point.

>>718423948
>lly teleport behind cover
if you magically have cover out of a sudden then cavalry can just magically teleport too.

>>718423948
>Thinks a man weighed down with uniform and gear can outrun a horse.
You're a double retard.

>>718424084
i didnt mean it in a negative way.

>>718424485
>hourse isn't weighted down with an also uniform and gear + more
lol
houses arent endurance runners and get tired fast...

>>718424706
You know nothing about thirses do you? Past a 100m sprint humans eat shit, you can't outrun them.

>>718424706
Are you doing this deliberately? There are two forms of cavalry, light cavalry who are the fast runner skirmishers horses are built for speed. Heavy cavalry who are the slower runners but far more fearsome and used to break and run into formations. Both types were available at Waterloo to both sides. Both could easily run down any soldier from the opposing side, no problem.
Which is why troops have to form square in open field, if they form line they will get smashed.

>>718425042
actually not true btw, look it up
>>718425045
if what you say is true then they should just have used northing but hornses in the war and mopped upa all their oppisition
:)

>>718425281
He just said that infantry in square counters horses. Can't form square effectively if all your soldiers are spread out behind every rock they can find in a fifteen kilometer radius.

>>718425281
>actually not true btw
Go eat a dick or actually supply arguments

>>718425479
sounds like humans are better then horses
>>718425529
>ai sloppa
gtfo the fuck outta here LMAO

>>718425594
>sounds like humans are better then horses
In square formation, yes. But then they're vulnerable to infantry in line and artillery shooting at them, which in turn are vulnerable to cavalry again.
It's not either/or when it comes to infantry or horsemen, based troll. There's a reason why armies had both.

>>718425594
Ah yes of course the 11 year old picture is AI slop, how pitiful that this is the best you could come up with.
I accept your lack of arguments and agreement that infantry can't outrun horses.