Thread 718453658

>Alex Mochi released a video earlier this week claiming he received just $5,000 for the sale of Rise of Industry – but Kasedo Games disputes his claims

>"Our game made €4 million, it topped the Steam charts, universities taught economics with it, and three years later, I was broke, hospitalised, and selling my life’s work for $5,000," Mochi said in the video.

>Mochi broke down how that income quickly became "nothing." He explained that Steam took 30%, so it was "gone immediately," while the rest dwindled due to refunds (which, he said, is 10-15% for indies), regional pricing, and gray market resellers.

>"The deal looked fair on paper: $75,000 in advance, with a 50/50 split until they recover $100,000, and then they shift to 60/40 for us," Mochi explained. "For a new team, fair feels like a win."

>Mochi goes on to claim that, "by the time things slowed down," Kasedo Games had earned around $1.2 million from the game, while the development team earned roughly $1.5 million.

>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages, software, servers, hardware, and taxes, they were left with "pretty much nothing."

>By Kasedo Games’ math, that €4 million in revenue, minus 10% returns, is €3.24 million. Minus a further 10% tax (the average based on worldwide regions), and Steam’s 30% revenue share, leaves €2.27 million.

>The publisher then went on to explain that, based on that calculation (and "taking Mochi’s own revenue share figure as being correct"), Dapper Penguin Studios’ 60% share of €2.27 million would be €1.36 million ($1.59 million), while Kasedo Games’ 40% would be €900,000 ($1 million).

Tldr: took money upfront, got a shit deal with the publisher, had to sell rights of IP for a measly 5k
lol
lmao

Good morning, Saar!

>>718453658 (OP)
sounds more like he's shit with money and/or lying.

>>718453658 (OP)
>be retard who can't handle money
>blame someone else for your faults

>>718453658 (OP)
>Make millions from your tiny indie game
>Spend all of it
>Blame your publisher
Is there any indie dev who isn't a massive faggot?

always ask for a percentage of the gross

Reminds me of something.

Retard simply had no idea of how to run a business.
Rise of Industry is also mediocre, wouldn't recommend it over a dozen other factory builders.

>>718453658 (OP)
Sounds like he got fucked by corpos, as they tend to do the the little man since they have all the control over the flow of the money
anons ITT love boot on their neck so they're blaming him, typical

Weird how not hiring a business lawyer to look over this kind of stuff can utterly fuck you over haha

>>718453658 (OP)
>hospitalised
Reminder that its been proven that corpos will do this to people during patent sales etc so they can get a better price
They come out and spike your milk etc

>>718454486
>game about economics and running an industry
>dev doesn't know how running a business or finances work
that's pretty funny

>>718453658 (OP)
>hospitalised
Is this some euphemism for attempted suicide?

>>718453658 (OP)
What were the full development costs? It should be easy to provide the total figure to compare with the earnings for the studio.

how much you wanna bet this guy is leaving numerous things out

>>718453658 (OP)
>Makes a million dollars with investment upfront and a big cut of money not obliged (taxes, fees)
>But has to pay the team

It doesn't sound like they got fucked at all, it sounds like they were all paid a reliable salary and they grossly misunderstood how expensive a team is. Divide by 8 and they get 125k each, and it had 3 years of dev time, so they got 40k each, assuming that's all the publisher gave them up front and they weren't paid in other ways.

no wonder jews rule over whitoids
they're all so fucking dumb

>>718453658 (OP)
It sounds like they just hired too many people or rented a nice office or whatever. Game sales have a long tail but if you expand expecting your initial sales to just continue that's pretty dumb.
Considering the game suddenly started getting marketed and sales again right after he sold the IP, it does kind of sound like they purposefully tried to drain the devs of resources so they could buy and own it fully.

Gamedevs really just wanna make one videogame and be set for life.

the dev's next game was also called "recipe for disaster," the jokes write themselves. and that's where the money went.

>>718453658 (OP)
This piece of shit looking game took an entire TEAM? Looks like the kinda shit 2 people should be working on

what, is this saying he made 7 figures but still ended up broke?

>>718453658 (OP)
Didn't those fellers what were making the new Daggerfall suddenly get broke too? Thought there were a few others recently as well for these similar small scale things

>>718453658 (OP)
>while the development team earned roughly $1.5 million.
>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages, software, servers, hardware, and taxes, they were left with "pretty much nothing."
Yeah that's how it works

https://www.mobygames.com/game/103168/rise-of-industry/
Staff of 9. Not sure what country theyre from but probably some shitty leftist high tax one

>>718454970
the dev expanded way too fast after rise of industry and burned through the money like crazy. there's quite a few reddit posts about it even from the dev himself who actually admitted he did things wrong.

>>718454790
they most certainly were paid a salary by the publisher, how else will they be able to make a game for their benefactor

>>718455045
>NINE PEOPLE TO MAKE A SHITTY FACTORIO CLONE

>>718454970
It's saying he got 200k because he had to split with 7 other people on a team, and then was upset that making a game with a team was expensive and not a one shot ticket to retirement. 8 people and 3 years is a lot to pay for.

>>718453658 (OP)
Masterfully gigajewed there. The wording's correct to the contract and they left them enough leeway that Satan himself would be proud

>>718453658 (OP)
that game looks like shit btw

the whole point of getting a publisher is for them to cover your costs while making the game, so i feel he's lying in more ways than one.

A lot of studios got lucky with the massive lockdown indie boom. They assumed the money would flow forever.

>>718454165
ENTER

Why haven't these tards realized that game sales don't matter?
The real money comes from merch and microtransactions

>>718455058
>the dev expanded way too fast
Why didn't they make another game with the same team first? Save some of that money, jesus.

>be indie dev
>take the equivalent of a shark loan
>sharks get their part
>Gaben gets the biggest slice just by sitting on his fat ass
>get fucked down the line

This is what happens when you let jews grab hold of a industry. And its going to get uglyer from now on

>made 1.5 million
>THIS ISN'T ENOUGH TO RUN MY SUPER SPECIAL STUDIO FOR 3 YEARS OH NO!
>sells the rights to his game for nothing because he somehow managed to blow 500k a year for 3 years straight on a fucking indie studio with no overhead
Some people don't deserve to have money.

>>718455126
We don't know what the deal was or how much the publisher had invested, I feel like 60/40 is reasonable enough if they funded most of the development for the game.

>>718455254
>sales don't matter
Indie example: R.E.P.O
Non-indie example: Elden Ring

>>718455384
>uglyer
Made me nipah brother

>>718455559
>Moshe is a grammar nazi
Why am I not surprised?

>>718455678
Oh I thought you did it on purpose. Nvm then. I dont like communicating with browns

Considering how harsh it is for indie dev, this is a success story.

what the actual fuck is the point of a publisher for vidya, just a team of retards who advertise in exchange for rights and profit?

>takes an advance
>doesn't like the terms
>WAHHHH I GOT RAPED
this reads like a fucking rapper whining about their contract lmao

>>718453658 (OP)
>pay back loan
>still give them 30% of your money for some reason
lmao wtf

>>718455765
>said by esl pedro

>>718454648
personal finance/business is vastly different from macro economics.

Lotta bootlickers itt

>>718455517
Pretty sure repo has made more from merch now
Elden ring sells a bunch too

>>718453658 (OP)
>$1.59 million
>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages, software, servers, hardware, and taxes, they were left with "pretty much nothing."

Team of 9 for 3 years, that's almost 60k per team member, assuming they went full indie and couldn't secure next publisher deal (which would be retarded since Rise of Nations was successful), that still should be enough for an indie video game studio. It's not like they have fucking material costs unless they fried all of their PCs.

>>718453658 (OP)
yeah ~4mil in sales is basically nothing

>>718453658 (OP)
>creates something that people enjoy
>gets punished by capitalism
every single time

>>718456294
a person being paid 60k a year costs a lot more than 60k a year

>>718453658 (OP)
if the game "made €4 million" what do gray market resellers and regional pricing have to do with how much the devs get? A billion people could buy the game from a shitty keysite that you get 0$ from which is almost always the publisher's fault for selling bulk keys for pennies each in some backroom deal the dev never sees a cent from if you made €4 million that's €4 million. Same with regional pricing, whether it's €4 million in full price western sales or half off in worthless huedollars it's still €4 million.

>>718455910
The point is funding so you can make the game in the first place, if you're a retard who can't just do it in your mom's basement, you can get funding to pay all your pals a wage while you work on the game for a year or two while pretending to be a real game studio.

>>718453658 (OP)
Literally the oldest story in the book. There are thousands of cases of the creator making a shit deal with the people with they money and getting completely fucked over

>>718456474
Still, more than the average in the USA and half of Europe (and of course assuming that NO PUBLISHER DEAL). It honestly seems like he was just retarded with money.

>>718454493
You're a fool and the engineer of your own suffering. Please continue blaming others as I'm sure that will magically fix your self inflicted wounds.

>>718455910
They fund the game in the first place and theoretically advertise it too. Some indie devs can make games in their spare time but getting a team and making it from scratch requires a fuckload of time and money. One example of how to avoid a publisher is how factorio did it.

Factorio did crowdfunding so they could hire some actual decent artists since the original art was ass. It helped that even old factorio was very playable despite being unfinished. It was a solid foundation that they could build on up to the end.
Over the years they made massive improvements that got them more attention which led to more sales from their own website.
2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yDZM0diiYc
2016 (steam early access starts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR01YdFtWFI
2020 (1.0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8SBp4SyvLc

Now they have 30+ team members and are working on some new project and can coast on factorio sales for years.

>>718453658 (OP)
how the fuck do you spend a million dollars to make this
im sure his employees loved working on him lol

>>718453658 (OP)
Sounds like he should've had less expenses and not been involved with a publisher then.
Sounds like he wasn't actually indie, but effectively a contractor. Am I sympathetic? Sure. But people really should know better by now.

>>718456836
imo factorio was already a finished game once it was released on steam and they kinda burned money for years changing things pointlessly

>>718457396
Kovarex had a WoW addiction and just couldn't find the time.

>>718453658 (OP)
That just sounds like they took a bad revenue split from the publisher. Most of the shit they are crying about are basic cost of business or general risk factors. Saying X years ago is also a stupid measure since it is meaningless. Any number of things could have happened during that time that could have tanked value in their company or IPs. They are just crying over being bad at business and that they weren't the next Minecraft-tier indie success.

>>718453658 (OP)
Wtf am i reading

>>718453658 (OP)
>€1.36 million
>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages, software, servers, hardware, and taxes, they were left with "pretty much nothing."
So they were shit at running the studio and top dogs likely embezzled money for "work expenses". If you need cash, you sell assets, what's the problem?

>By Kasedo Games’ math, that €4 million in revenue, minus 10% returns, is €3.24 million
interesting math

so basically, they took out a $75,000 loan, and ended up paying them $900,000
nigga get a job and save up $75K yourself

>>718455384
It's a standard publishing contract.

>>718457757
The game just didn't sell that well. Not every game is a big hit. You're lucky if you make enough to cover development costs (mostly wages).

>>718457757
>interesting math
If one was reading that straight without context then yes it sounds scuffed. But keep in mind that this is a paraphrasing generalisation using what are likely rounded up figures from a whiney dev, that was written by a sub-human gaming 'journalist'. So what they are likely trying say is that Kasedo Games told them the revenue figure post returns was actually 3.24 million. Which urinalist then tried to fluff up based on that shoddy info given by the dev.

>>718458063
Standard publishing contracts are basically shark loans yes.
I'm not sure why anyone considers it being "standard" as a defense for jewish business practices.

>>718457736
Guy who made game about economics didn't understand IRL economics and got reamed.

>>718458127
It's not a loan, retard. If the game flopped and sold nothing they would not have had to pay it back. That's why publishers want a cut of sales. They are assuming all financial risk.

>>718458203
Why are you defending (((publishing)))?

>>718456179
R.E.P.O has sold over 100 million dollars worth of official merch? Elden Ring has sold over 1 billion dollars worth of merch? Really?

>>718453924
this is usually the case.
they make $4mil, spend $3.5mil on yachts and sports cars then once monthly payments start to catch up with them they realise they're in debt.

>>718458268
Fund your own game then. Nobody forced him to take the deal.

>>718458306
Yes
You don't get how profitable merch is

>>718453658 (OP)
Learn to handle your money instead of spending it all on hookers and blow.

>>718458401
I didn't even know Elden Ring had merch. No way people are buying hundreds of millions worth of figmas or whatever.

how does one instantly burn 4 million that fucking fast? fuck give me 1 million and I'll stretch that hit for years.

Wild idea, make your indie game..... fully independent. Ya know so there's only one person reaping the revenue?

>>718453658 (OP)
>indie
>use a publisher
Literally why?

>>718458456
>No way people are buying hundreds of millions worth of figmas or whatever.
The rani figures alone probably made them 50mil
Not to mention all the shirts

>>718453658 (OP)
>indie
>has a publisher backing them with funding
Why do we still call these indies?

>>718453658 (OP)
>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages, software, servers, hardware, and taxes, they were left with "pretty much nothing."
really not sure what dude is on about here. so his game was profitable, his studio wasn't in the red and had made significant capital investments in equipment, training a team of devs, infrastructure etc. you won-- you now have a chance to pitch a sequel or new project to publishers, secure a new advance, keep the business going and live your dream as an indie game dev.

>>718458639
>Literally why?
About 75,000 reasons.

>>718453658 (OP)
>Take a loan that you have to pay back with 25% interest.
>After the loan is paid back you then pay them 40% of your profits forever.
Who the fuck would agree to this for 75k? It's a publisher when you're publishing on steam.

>>718458639
Do you have millions lying about to fund your game with?

>>718458947
I feel like 75 thousand isn't that much that you can't just get a bank loan or one from an independent investor without fucking with publishers.

>>718454493
big corpo will always say numbers go up even when it doesn't
you will just hear about massive blockbusters later down the line was actually bankrupt

>>718459023
Stop paying yourself 200k a year

>>718459032
banks dont want to mitigate their risks?

Oh yeah I bought this game and never played it. Neat

>millenials: I'm so broke, it's not fair!
>also millenials: 50 different subscriptions services, eats take out for every meal, buys tons of useless plastic crap, no investments or holding anything of worth

>>718459032
It isn't much but when you tell them the purpose of the loan is you'll make a game and make incredible sales pinky swear they won't believe you will ever be able to payback and the loaned crumbs aren't worth using their totally unrelated collection agency for.

>>718459149
this is false, I have 0 subscriptions and barely eat out I just spend all my money on brandy :(

>>718453658 (OP)
>>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages, software, servers, hardware, and taxes, they were left with "pretty much nothing."
Am I missing something? They released the game, it paid for all their employees for 3 years, isn't it their fault if they haven't made a new product in that time?

>>718453658 (OP)
>"Our game made €4 million, it topped the Steam charts, universities taught economics with it, and three years later, I was broke, hospitalised, and selling my life’s work for $5,000," Mochi said in the video.

Thank God I'm not loving in a shithole. I wish him good luck.

>>718455910
it's complicated and depends on the publisher, it's not as simple as 'just money' either, it's a whole suite of things like legal counseling, the usual contact list (not only users mailing lists and shit but in industry contacts, whether you're in need of talents or specific skills or access to events and shit) or even access to their assets, like say a QA team or marketing or whatever they might have on offer
it can also help a smaller team focusing on things by getting actual deadlines and milestones they need to reach to please the publishers, it's often seen as a bad thing because you mostly hear about the most toxic parts but a lot of people are very, very bad at managing their time and efforts and need this sort of structure (you're not trying to please some abstract 'player' that might or might not care if your new feature doesn't make it into next patch, or what to prioritize etc)

but yeah, in general it's a mix of 'money' and 'I really don't want to deal with all this retarded shit, please do it for me'

>financially irresponsible when they make a hit indie game.
>Blame publisher when they were the ones who took the bad deal.
You know they could've gone through a kickstarter and gotten the same bad result. From what I've seen, game developers don't make good accountants.

>>718459149
Unprompted seething out of nowhere.

>cry about publisher
>publisher apparently was good enough at marketing that they generated 4M€ for a mediocre economic sim

>>718459032
The game had to make 150k for the publisher to get at least their investment back, so they took some risk.
The contract was probably in their favour, but that's what you hire a lawyer for.

>>718456749
Here’s 10 million more pajeets at the request of corporate lobby groups to help low work force participation (not to drive down 1st world wages). Also they will not increase housing prices and it’s racist if you think so, Blackstone needs more people in houses.

>>718455063
You think the jew is going to pay out of his own pocket? No sir, their salary was borrowed against their eventual profits.

>>718453658 (OP)
>the development team earned roughly $1.5 million.
Sounds to me like a personal budgeting issue to me. How many people do you need to make an indie game like this anyways?

>>718455384
When talking about le heckin incels being banned:
>agree to not saying NIGGER NIGGER
>say NIGGER NIGGER
>get banned
>no surprise

When talkin about Steam:
>agree to having 30% of purchases taken by steam
>uh
>WTF STEAM TOOK 30% OF MY PURCHASE!???

>>718453658 (OP)
Yes Gaben is a disgusting Jew. But you didn't have to use steam. Alternatives exist in the big 25

Gray market resellers are easy to avoid. Just don't do regional pricing. If you do want to do regional pricing, you have to expect border hoppers and smugglers, in any business.

>>718453658 (OP)
Don't understand the point of using a publisher as an indie dev. Unless they pay you salary during dev time, their marketing capability is limited. Might as well just try to advertise it yourself; word of mouth and quality is what people care about when it comes to indies anyways.

>>718453658 (OP)
That was kind of on him because his team was too bit. Dozens of people making THAT? What was he thinking, that's a 5 person job at most

>>718459636
>Unless they pay you salary during dev time
Yeah they give you funding so that you could pay your team.

this is why you have management in your business. indies will NEVER learn.

speaking of finances, how do successful kickstarter games make do with so little money?
>undertale: $50k
that kind of money can't pay for a professional programmer for even a year. do indie devs just live in their mom's basement?

>>718459518
Cool it with the antisemitism

>>718459762
yes

>itt no game /v/irgins telling devs that actually make games how to make games
The delusion and complete lack of self-reflection of this place should've reached a peak years ago but it just keeps growing

>>718459023
>get paid free money for YEARS to make a game
>make the game, get some money from the profits too
So what's the issue then? Get yourself another publisher, stay on their salary for a couple years, make a game, get some money in profits, repeat.

>>718457757
>hmmm i have 1 millions dollars for my company
>should i invest it in more employees, better computers, immediately start making a new game, generate hype and pre orders
>or...
>blow it all on stupid shit i don't need
>Yeah, i'll blow it all on stupid shit i don't need

every. fucking. time.

Kek, these devs can't manage shit. They made so much money from a shitty game nobody cared about and still lost everything.

>>718453658 (OP)
>>718455038
This. Running a business is costly as all hell. That's why serious companies release games in a pipeline, they cannot afford to coast off one success for 3 years. But, running a serious business is incompatible with the classic indie dev way of spending 8 years on one game.

>>718453658 (OP)
>make one product
>pretend you can life off it for the rest of your life

lul
back to the wage cage

The Publisher made insane money. 75k investment for 1.2 million and more

>>718459704
>get paid for years to make a game (the publisher takes all the risk)
>if your game is shit you've had essentially a multi-year salary with no result
>release game, game sells relatively fine
>your team gets 1.5m from the profits out of 3.2m total
And this is an issue how exactly? I assume they've also expanded their team/assets during this time. So now you scaled up, have a history of releases, you can go to the next publisher and get yourself a bigger salary and repeat.

These people are not "indie devs". They are contractors.

>>718453658 (OP)
And that dude is an industry consultant, lmao.

>>718455085
>Work on game for 3 years
>Get 200k
>Jew ass publisher does nothing
>Gets 900k overnight
>Steam does nothing
>Gets 1.5 mil

>gets jewed
>blames everyone else but the jews
such many cases

>>718459762
Either that or having an actual job while doing game dev on the side

Wait, so let me get this straight
>get a salary for years
>at the end also get 200k
And this is bad... why? Sounds to me like a pretty good job.

>>718460106
If both did nothing they wouldn't use either.

>>718453658 (OP)
Meh, the game sucked ass, the way you access more things through unlocks was absolutely retarded, like you can't just enter an industry in one job you need to build up all kinds of nebulous shit.

Also what value is the publisher if his studio has to pay for everything?

>>718460106
>Steam does nothing
Yeah, they could have just released it on Epic and get 1% of the sales. (kek)

>>718460236
what salary

>>718459762
Toby nolife'd it and hired friends.
Toby's autism is unmatched in the realm of games that have actually released.

>>718460305
>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages, software, servers, hardware, and taxes, they were left with "pretty much nothing."

>>718460305
why would you use a publisher if you don't get paid a salary?
>inb4 marketing
Noone knows about this game because of the publisher.

>>718460238
Steam did something decades ago and now it fully controls the market to a point where most "gamers" refuse to buy non-steam games. I bet you're one of those

>>718460292
see
>>718460373

https://steamcommunity.com/app/671440/discussions/0/5561388294346272901/

Alex is retarded, more news at 11

>>718460373
I buy from gog

>>718460328
He's paying salary to his team presumably. This isn't a solo dev

>>718459375
>unprompted
That's probably how he blew through his paltry fraction of his game's earnings after it was parasitized away

>>718460419
Why would you sell your ip for pennies? What an idiot

>>718460457
>He's paying salary
>>718460305
>what salary
Thanks for conceding.

>>718460373
Star sector was immensely popular even before YouTubers started covering it and it's never been on steam.
What now candyman?

>>718459459
>Hire a lawyer!
>Yes you're just a dude who relies on the publisher's money for your business anyway.
>Take out loan!
>40 grand in debt right off the bat is worth it since you can make it up on the back end with a better contract!
>Oh...the publisher has better lawyers that it keeps on retainer.
>THIS IS THE DEV'S FAULT!!!!!!

>>718460524
Hey,it worked for the Witcher guy didn't it?

>>718460419
>The idea was to have a cyclic development: the success and income of one game, would fund the next one, endlessly. Unfortunately, after over two years making Recipe for Disaster, the income from Rise of Industry has long since ran out, combined with the depressing, heartbreaking and saddeningly low sales and exposure the game is getting.
>I say this now, to let you know that some months ago, I had to do one of the most difficult things I've ever done: selling the Rise of Industry IP. It was sold for pennies, in a desperate move to keep paying everyone in the studio and not close the doors, preventing Recipe for Disaster to be left abandoned and unfinished.
big oof


https://store.steampowered.com/app/1492360/Recipe_for_Disaster/

>shit game
bigger oof

Call your new game Recipe for Disaster
Use the same publisher for another bad deal
???

>>718460725
>i'm going to work in a high-risk low reward industry forever by continuously releasing indie games that have a 10% chance of becoming big, 50% chance of barely keeping us floating and 40% chance of completely bankrupting us!
Solid life plan you've got there.

>>718460373
Real gamers don't pay for games at all.

>>718460454
Gog rhymes with zog. Coincidence? I think not.

>game made 4 mln yuro and we were broke
has the same energy as
>kicked out of 110+ countries for no good reason

>>718460762
It isn't necessarily a bad deal depending on what else the Publisher is actually doing for them. But whether it would generate real money for the Developers is dependant upon the game actually being good enough to sell at a price that isn't too cheap. Rise of Industry is 30 burger bux in a genre that is already leaning towards being niche having to compete against cheaper games in an already flooded marketplace. Unless it was some super sleeper hit that blew up and became a must buy it was never going to make massive amounts of money to begin with.

>>718454165
KEIZO

>>718460614
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Investors aren't nice people, so you should assume that their money comes with a catch.

>>718453658 (OP)
>indie
>uses publisher
>gets jewed to death
Absolute kek

>>718461424
I too often make up stories and then post them on the internet for (You)s fellow 4chan user!

>>718454493
>corpo
Stop being gay.

Damn he should have taken Epic's exclusivity deal

>>718460419
Someone explain to me the logic of selling your ip and any future earnings associated with it for $5000

What was the retail price of the game?
I bet that if it was one dollar more expensive he would not have had to sell the IP.

>>718461705
If the franchise has been milked to death, 5k can be decent.

>>718456132
No. The entire distinction between micro and macro economics is bullshit. Most of economics is a scam to keep the tax paying cattle oblivious

>>718453658 (OP)
>Rise of Industry
>"Our game made €4 million, it topped the Steam charts, universities taught economics with it"
I have never heard of this game before in my life.

>>718461976
>I only care about the most marketed AAA titles and mentally block out all indie games I see, why have I never heard of this???

>>718461849
micro finance =/= personal finance

>>718462090
You got any more things the version of me that lives in your head does? Wish I had schizophrenia like you.

This retard hired 17 people to make an indie game on borrowed capital and is crying that he barely broke even when the game didn't sell that well, at a little over half a million copies. The reason why is obvious, the sticker price is too high at 30 bucks. Now I know what you're thinking, 30 times half a million is 15 million dollars! Well the game regularly goes on sale for 70% to 90% off which is apparently where almost all the copies are sold.

>>718453658 (OP)
>He explained that Steam took 30%, so it was "gone immediately,"
>explains in detail how 99% is gone due to everyone else, not Steam
I don't understand the constant Steam shitflinging when the real problems are everyone but Steam lmao

>>718461705
realistically, how much more could they be earning from this industry game? It seems like your generic run of the mill management game with even worse graphics than your average game in the genre.

>>718459762
Undertale is made by one guy where all the outsourced stuff was done on a contractual basis, and he makes a killing on character merch

>>718453658 (OP)
This retard had 9 full time employees hired for 3 years to make an indie game and it's a fucking sim with no characters, no identity, no merchandising prospects at all

Sucks to suck I guess, sucker blyat ma retard

>>718462587
What did he mean by this?

>>718462616
It means that human ambition is useless if its misguided. It does not matter how much effort you put into something if your whole approach is retarded

why do devs need a publisher again?

>>718459762
Undertale was made by one guy in a basement using gamemaker studio, yes. That's why it looks like shit. The game relies almost entirely on writing and music, which were his actual areas of expertise.

A better comparison is factorio, which was developed into a viable product by just a handful of guys after an indie gogo campaign that raised like $30k. Because factorio is actually good, sale of beta versions of the game kept development going until the steam release where they made all the money they'll ever need.

>>718462683
Ah, now I understand. Thank you for illuminating me.

>>718462698
That's how modern indies roll.

>>718462698
They need them for advertising thats all.

>>718462698
Because this "Moshi" dipshit wanted to hire 17 people for his first game and had no capital.

>>718462698
Because publishers handle marketing and actually selling your game. They do the business work so the devs don't have to.

>>718458456
A single figma is $100
A single licensed ring or amulet is $200
A shirt is $50
The board game starts at $200 and goes up to $1000 if you get the expansions

>>718461976
There are many wildly successful games that you haven't heard of.

>>718462698
indie devs shouldn't need one

>>718462931
I wouldn't call a game that needs 90% sales immediately after launch to crack half a million copies "wildly successful"

>>718453658 (OP)
>piece of shit game that completely falls appart once you build more than the most basic of factory layouts
Can't optimize his game, can't optimize his finances.

>>718456490
From what I've heard grey market keys often involve scams with stolen credit cards and chargeback that can actually cost the devs money, to the point some devs have outright said they'd rather people pirate then buy from resellers.
Could be bullshit though that's just what another anon told me.

>>718453658 (OP)
devs lie all the time, same as everyone else

>>718453658 (OP)
Disgusting artstyle

>>718453658 (OP)
based retard couldn't get a loan for 75k?
that like a car payment tier loan.
>publisher gets 25k profit + whatever you make afterwards in 40 split

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

>>718460106
Don't use the publisher if you don't think they are worth their money, you retard.

>>718458639
I thought "doesn't have a publisher" was literally the definition of indie. Has it just come to mean "small dev team" now?

>>718460416
All I'm seeing is that Steam is worth their cut.

>>718455254
>anon watched one starwars bussiness documentary 20 years ago

>>718453658 (OP)
>going with a publisher in the year of our lord 2025
What a retard. Publishers are useless. They don't help with advertising at all anymore, and if you need an investment that bad promo your game through short devlog videos and start a kickstarter

>>718460614
>>Hire a lawyer!
If you think that that's outrageous, then companies should just be allowed to own you. None of that 60/40 shit. 100 + your oragans.

>continuously mentions Steam's 30% cut when the retard took a 50/50 split for fucking 75k and some localization work
I guarantee you they got more value out of the Steam cut than whatever the fuck the publisher did.

>>718453658 (OP)
>>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages, software, servers, hardware, and taxes, they were left with "pretty much nothing."
thats exactly how they want it to work.
now you need to sign another deal to make next game.
how else did he think it works?
publishers are a cancer growing on our industry and even independent developers need them otherwise will be drown out in the never ending flood of slop flooding the market.
it is by design.

>>718454165
>publisher
>indie

>>718463167
Kek, but sadly that is a common thing now

>>718459636
Maybe because his game wouldn't have made $4m without the publisher doing the marketing for it.

>>718463305
im sure you could sign a contract like that that would be perfectly legal in the us of a

>>718463323
Also
>continuously mentions steam's 30% cut
>fails to mention that the game only sold any copies because they routinely put it on sale for 70-90% off

>>718459762
>successful
I'm gonna use Stormgate as an example anyway. They got 2 million on kickstarter and then used that to convince moneybags to give them 40+m, because there is clearly big interest for another failed eSports RTS.

>>718463340
No, retard, the game just didn't sell that well relative to the size of the developer team (18 people)

>>718461976
Topping steam charts can just mean that you bought 3 copies at 3 am in Luxembourg, universities teaching with in can just mean that some assistant professor used a picture of it on a powerpoint slide.
Don't fall for "entrepreneurs" and their silly self aggrandizing marketing lies.

>>718453658 (OP)
>retard mismanages his fortune
>this is clearly everyone else's fault

>>718462698
So their games make $4m instead of $40k

>>718463340
What exactly did they Publisher do wrong? They offered a contract along with funding that the Developer was under no obligation to sign. The Publisher were the ones assume risk here if the game didn't sell. If there was real demand for the game then it should have been easy for the Devs to scrounge up $75K via crowd funding in this day and age.

>>718463273
>Publishers are useless.
Weird how all the biggest games have publishers. They must all be idiots who aren't as smart as you are.

>make a game about economics
>doesnt understand economics
a true V dev

>>718453658 (OP)
>the rest dwindled due to refunds (which, he said, is 10-15% for indies), regional pricing, and gray market resellers
>€4 million in revenue, minus 10% returns, is €3.24 million
How does any of this shit make sense? What actually happens financially when someone refunds a game or buys a key off kinguin?

>Article: "A game's total sales made 4 million, here's how it was divided to make sure the creators got almost none of it
>/v/: "A SINGULAR PERSON MADE 4 MILLION AND BOUGHT YATCHS LMAO"

>>718460057
they took a gamble and it paid off. honestly the premise of the game itself isn't that innovative, it probably had a "high risk" label.

He had a case of the millennials and spent his windfall on Netflix Ultra and DoorDash Xtreme, and probably a condo in a retarded location rather than a cozy house somewhere safe.

>>718463675
Everything they taught us about economics has turned out to be bullshit anyway. Even the basics like supply and demand are bullshit, look at literally every secondhand market including obscure, but commonly printed, books.

>>718460419
I was kind of sympathetic until he started blaming refunds and saying that being able to use the refund system as a demo is bad.
If your game depends upon entrapping people who ultimately don't like your game but were foolish enough to give it a chance first then your game deserves to fail, as far as I'm concerned.
It's not even like this is one of those cases of 2 hour long indie games getting refunded by someone who beat the whole thing. By his own admission they weren't playing long enough to learn the game.

>>718464206
It doesn't make sense anon. The Dev is pulling assumptions out of his ass which are being presented as fact. Regional pricing and gray market isn't a factor when you are talking about total revenue which is what their gripes hinge on, as it is a dollar value after the fact. If they were crying about having a large number of sales but the revenue being small due to regional pricing and gray market then that would at least make sense to some degree, but that isn't the argument they seem to be making. As for refunds I would assume that they are obligated to return an amount of money to the distributor to cover refunds. However why they are including that into the total revenue at all is beyond me, especially if there is some sort of standardish average percentage that gets refunded. The whole thing is just pants on head retarded flawed analysis trying to garner undeserved sympathy when the reality is their game just didn't sell that well to begin with and wasn't the hit they try to paint it out to be.

>>718464282
>to make sure the creators got almost none of it
This retard ended up with nothing because he spent all the money coming into his development team to hire more people despite not selling many copies even with steep discounts. If he had only hired a few people instead of 17 he would have walked away with hundreds of thousands if not over a million dollars.

>>718455161
The publisher won't just cover all your costs for free while also letting you keep 50% of the revenue on top of that.
It's likely the publisher gave them the money and then 50% of the revenue was used to pay that back until they were profitable.

>>718460419
One thing I don't understand is that the new game, Recipe for disaster, is still being published by Kasedo on steam, but he was relying entirely on sales of this + RoI (which he only gets 60% of) to keep the lights on? Why isn't the publisher fronting the costs again? Or is he a bigger retard than I thought and the 75k upfront in the OP is the only thing Kasedo ever paid him for the right to get nearly half of every sale? How the fuck did he develop the first game then with just 75k if he pissed away millions in just three years

>>718464696
He is clearly one of those idiot indies that thinks more time spent developing entitles them to special treatment when it comes to competing in the market somehow. They don't really factor that they are fighting against everything else that is available for money and attention, and thus price their game above casual purchase price and also don't invest in marketing assuming that sort of thing just magically takes care of itself.

With digital distribution being the norm. What is even the point of a publisher?

>>718464206
as for the first part, I assume it's just how the total revenue was calculated purely by the number of copies sold, omitting the reduced amount from regional pricing and discounted prices, as well as the refunded copies.

>>718454165
Chris Hunt. He made the same amount and stuck it all in the bank with his oldman acting as the company CEO. Since he was self published and was only keeping it in the family via his lil sis most of that money is still around. That might change depending on how Kenshi 2 pans out since he scaled up with a few more hands on deck.

>>718465034
>Why isn't the publisher fronting the costs again?
Looking at Rise of Industries sales compared to development time/costs it would likely be too big of an investment risk for the Publisher to fund the thing. As for why they are still signed on as Publisher though is just likely they agreed that they would be willing to Publish if the game got to a sellable state, but they may not even have any real commitments involved for that. Also entirely possible that the original contract wasn't just for Rise of Industry but for Publishing rights to all of their games going forward.

>>718465068
Licensing, marketing, legal, any number of business liabilities and what not. And also just the traditional role of funding development to a certain degree. It is going to vary by Publisher and contract but basically they can handle all non-development work on behalf of the Developer. Not explicitly necessary in the current year, but can be a reasonable trade off for a Developer from having to assume all of that responsibility and fund it themselves.

>>718460106
No, think about it, the super bowl doesn't even do anything.
The company need to produce their own ads with their own money, and super bowl paid nothing.
Instead, super bowl is asking for millions just for 1 minute of ads.
How is that fair?
At least they should get some football players to promote the products for the company.

>>718465068
>What is even the point of a publisher?
Money. If it's early access sloppa that stays in it for eight plus years the day one sales won't last that long. It also depends on the locale of the developer themselves. A thirdie like the one behind Flappybird can live like a king providing the local mafia isn't constantly hounding him for handouts. Comparatively some soi sipping chud from California isn't going to run far even with the GDP of a second world nation backing up his finances.

>>718456743
IT salaries are quite a bit higher than average salaries. Even in Europe it's 30% or so more. There are also other costs like office, hardware and so on.

>>718465068
They fronted him a decent chunk of change to get started, did localization work, and promoted the game

>>718463095
>this cost 4 million to make

>>718453658 (OP)
maybe next time you make a minecraft like game solo instead retard

>>718458470
Hire nine people in IT >>718455045
+office and see how long it lasts.

>>718454493
He licked the boot and now he's surprised they step on his face?

>>718453658 (OP)
lets say the team is 4 guys
everything here is an estimate
>wages: 60,000 x 4: 240 000
>software: cant be much. 50 000 MAYBE
>servers: 200 000
>hardware: 100 000
>taxes: 150 000
740 000 of 1 500 000

and I bet my estimates are higher than the real numbers

>>718465656
>Concord cost $400 million to make
>GTA6 is looking to cost $1 billion starting without marketing tribute involved
The absolute state

>>718465042
>and thus price their game above casual purchase price and also don't invest in marketing assuming that sort of thing just magically takes care of itself.
He talked about how important marketing is in another post so if anything I'd say it's the exact opposite. He put too much importance on marketing, set the price high to cover those marketing costs in the hopes it'd earn more sales and forgot that word of mouth and low barrier of entry is one of the biggest weapons indie devs have in a saturated market. People aren't going to take a risk on a game they're unsure of if it's expensive, and they'd be even less likely to do so if there wasn't even the safety net of being able to refund if it turns out not to be for you as he seems to want.
Essentially trying to run it like a proper corpo dev studio instead of an indie team and get more sales from marketing than people simply trying the game and liking it.

>>718455910
If you're half way into dev and can't pay wages, you have to get someone to give you money to finish the game.

A publisher gives you money upfront to finish the game, they also cover any potential legal issues and marketing (which today means paying streamers or at least having contacts to send them codes)

I was gonna make a joke about americans being terrible with money but nope. He's a Spaniard.

i can't even begin to comprehend the idea of spending years taking a salary while making something you're passionate about. the idea is alien to me. work is hell if you want to get paid, personal projects are just that, a personal project nobody else cares about. this guy was insanely privileged to experience everything he did but the article paints him as some unfortunate impoverished victim.
i wonder if he's ever been fired from a job via text message

>>718465807
Just because they say marketing is important doesn't necessarily mean they marketed correctly. I'd wager they probably tried to market to a general audience instead of just focusing on engaging the niche audience this sort of game could really appeal to. Assuming the game is even any decent at what it does to begin with. Regardless we definitely both agree that they mismanaged things and made bad assumptions along the line.

>>718454493
>>718465737
You're both stupid. The terms were very straightforward and he's just crying that he didn't make any profit since he spent to much and his game didn't sell well enough.

>>718463154
It's how most people use it. Just like roguelike, it was appropriated and is now just a buzzword.

what is this slop style called? why do so many indie games look like this nowadays? just raw polygons with no textures

>>718461108
Most can't afford to pay salaries for a team. It's either sit in the basement without income for years and do it alone, hope kickstarter gives you enough to pay a team for years (which it most likely wont) or use a publisher.

>>718463663
in those cases the devs are outright owned by the publishers. almost every time an indie goes the route of proper publishing it goes wrong for them and the publisher walks away unscathed

>>718465757
In the video he says he had to pay 20 people, so with the bad deal from the publisher then it's obvious that there wasn't enough revenue to fund all of it

>>718466227
There's the patreon way too. You can live off an incomplete game for years if you attract the right autists/weirdos.

>>718466172
Minimalist slop.
Blame games like Parkitect.

>>718466145
I guess thinking about it for a second I could argue a case where the publisher is just some company you pay to handle advertising and legal or a "no-strings-attached" investor and have no say in any of the actual decision making for the game development then the indie label still somewhat works. But the moment the publisher has any kind of control of the creative process then as far as I'm concerned that shit isn't indie even if its a 1 man dev team.

>>718453658 (OP)
never heard of it

>>718454165
Daniel Remar

>>718465392
>>718465563
>>718465634
Everything you can do yourself with a regular bank loan.

>>718466172
In this case it appears to be a somewhat more engineering flavor of Corporate Memphis. Kind of reminds me of a couple of jackbox games. I can see it being a good option for an indie game in the simulator genre that wants 3D graphics but doesn't want to spend a lot of money. The issue is that they've mixed models at vastly different levels of visual fidelity, which looks weird. The higher resolution models and animations probably cost a lot of dev time too.

>>718465807
>and forgot that word of mouth and low barrier of entry is one of the biggest weapons indie devs have in a saturated market. People aren't going to take a risk on a game they're unsure of if it's expensive, and they'd be even less likely to do so if there wasn't even the safety net of being able to refund if it turns out not to be for you as he seems to want.
This when the AAA industry is trying to price gouge with the $100 standard and your average depression quest vidya is as generic as the last. An easy to swallow price point with little in the way of frontloaded bullshit will go a long way with carrying the initial drive. Marketing will boost that too but when you have the ability to offer something great at price that the competition can't match people will be hard pressed to ignore it unless you go out of your way to sour the mood.

>>718466431
Obviously, but then you have to pay it back. He took a worse deal because he wanted to completely eliminate personal risk of going into debt, and then throws a tantrum when he makes little money on the compromised financial deal he made when his mediocre product didn't sell well enough.

>>718466172
(Untextured) low poly, and it's everywhere because it's trivial to make the assets and they've somehow managed to convince people it doesn't look revolting.

>>718462698
The market gets flooded with games. Publisher can give you money, handle advertisement and usually has some experience how to handle things and increase your odds to not flop. Meanwhile indie devs often have zero experience and no money in a highly competitive market.

>>718465807
>>718466524
The funny thing is that while obviously 30 bucks is way too high, the game frequently went on sale for like 3 dollars, so anyone paying attention knew to just wait for that. they would have made much more money overall if they had just set it at ten or fifteen dollars with no discounts.

>>718466552
It would look fine if all the assets were close to the same level of fidelity.

>>718465796
With the amount of memes about things that happened before GTA6 came out the marketing budget doesn't need to be more 10k USD

>>718466587
But there's no FOMO that way.

>>718466524
>at price that the competition can't match
It is worth remembering that the competition is other indie devs as much as anything, especially in nicher genres that AAA won't touch with a ten foot pole.

>>718466587
Good point I wasn't taking sales into consideration

>>718466431
Yes, no is saying you couldn't do that. But the alternative is getting a Publisher. If you get the loan yourself you are the one assuming the risk though. And in plenty of situations using a Publisher makes sense. This time though going off what the dev has said they sent almost 5 years developing scraping by on credit, then needed more money to finish at which point they must have signed the publishing deal. So either they were not equipped to do the rest themselves and were out of options, or they didn't look at their options hard enough.

>>718466587
>they would have made much more money overall if they had just set it at ten or fifteen dollars with no discounts.
price discrimination is a thing
if you lower the price of your game way too early then you'll fail to capitalize on the people that would have bought it at full price or -20%
so no, there's a timing with everything and gradually dropping prices over a few years will help with extract the maximum amount of money from a potential audience

>>718466525
Looking at everything I don't even think it is fair to say they only made a little money off it. It seems more like they made a return on it but blew that on further development under unrealistic expectations that the game would continue selling forever at full price to cover those new development costs.

>>718455210
Trust fund baby who never drew a dime. He proved categorically that the only reason he succeeded at all in the first place was because he was rich and pushing a market nobody else was. And because at the time, there was a real industry movement to praise anything that wasn't popular, but also wasn't Japanese.

I can't really imagine the absolute ego-destruction he must have gone through to spend 20 million dollars out of his own pocket to re-release a game nobody cares about 20 years later to an industry which forgot him, but I'm sure he'll bounce back from it like the narcissist he is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWqnz-7iQbY

>>718466665
>It is worth remembering that the competition is other indie devs as much as anything, especially in nicher genres that AAA won't touch with a ten foot pole.
Sure, but in this case, the competition is fucking Factorio. I'd rather fight prime Tyson in the ring than try to compete with that at nearly the same price point.

>>718466587
True that. Any cheapskate worthy of his holey pants will wait but when your price was already low enough you wouldn't feel the need to sweat them out.

>>718466304
For normal steam games? Who does that outside the WEG branch and makes a high enough salary to survive on it?

>>718453658 (OP)
>universities taught economics with it
Universities are a joke

>>718466772
>It seems more like they made a return on it but blew that on further development under unrealistic expectations that the game would continue selling forever at full price to cover those new development costs.
Bingo. They also started other projects but didn't have them ready to ship before they ran out of cash.

>>718466841
I dunno anon, maybe the universities use it as a case study in what not to do when it comes to running a business.

>>718466736
That assumes a set potential audience though. Things will sell the most when they're new and fresh in the public eye, and for an indie game where word of mouth is often key that difference of some people who would have bought it for 20 but not 30 at release can propagate to new people who otherwise wouldn't even be looking at the game to see if it's worth the asking price now checking it out and buying it. Word of mouth is something that snowballs and so you want to do everything you can to give it that initial push.
Disclaimer: this is all personal opinion and I'm talking out of my ass here

>>718454493
>voluntarily sign contract
>wtf I don't like this contract
It's not some adhesion bullshit. He had a choice.

>work for 3 years to make a bomb
It's not surprising that the studio closed down

>>718466648
I'd imagine any advertising company that isn't staffed exclusively by pinebox lining boomers knows the value of this game enough to arm twist them a little. Record company longnoses already know that which is why they require patches to remove their catalogues once they go beyond the five year contracts.

>>718454493
The great thing about humans is that you can assume everyone involved is some kind of retarded faggot asshole and you would be 100% correct. You don't have to point fingers at just one of them.

>>718465042
>don't invest in marketing assuming that sort of thing just magically takes care of itself.

>>718453658 (OP)
>refunds (which, he said, is 10-15% for indies)
fascinating

>>718456132
certain principles still apply, in the end you're still deciding where and how to allocate your available resources

>>718466923
Good point actually

>>718467321
How could this game that looks worse than Sims 2 fail?????

>>718467098
>>718467321
>makes a restaurant game
>doesn't pay off the friendslop youtubers to play it
His own fault, restaurant games make absolute LOADS of dosh as soon as they're played by any youtuber friend group.

>>718467481
It's singleplayer only, kek

>>718453658 (OP)
its kind of tragic that only AAAs and friendslop can make it anymore.

>>718467594
Shut up and kick the indie dev while he's down, we'll go back to complaining that no good games are made later.

>>718467594
What about Schedule 1 then

>>718454372
they did, 60%.

im looking forward to his new game, Rise of Retardation

>>718467646
thats the definition of friendslop bro. Early access trash that'll never be a real game.

>>718453658 (OP)
He expanded fast which was unmotivated. Payroll ate up the profits. There was no plan beyond “I hope it continues to sell”. He says as much himself.

I don’t think he attacked the publisher or deal he got at all. He was a little sour they didn’t push his game more. But ultimately that’s not what tanked him.

It’s a good lesson: being a solo programmer or having a “studio” with a couple of friends doesn’t make you a manager or accountant. You’re not good at business because you can start a company. Traps like payroll ballooning kills companies that make hundreds of millions let alone a small garage outfit. Why are you expanding based on a lucky break? How will you sustain growth? Where’s the next game, DLC, when is it out, will it also make money? You need to have 5, 10 year visions.

>>718454372
always the gross, not the net

>>718467689
>Early access trash that'll never be a real game.
Tell that to DayZ and its consequences. We are still feeling the effects of that one.

>>718467978
Or Star Citizen.

>>718453658 (OP)
>westacucks are shit with money
Ok, and?

If you're an indie, and get a lump of money. Don't hire a bunch of people, if the project gets delayed cause of bugs or project creep you have to pay them and it comes out of your pocket. It's really easy to go way over budget this way and lose a shit load of money, cause the workers don't give a fuck.

>>718463323
yeah lmao at this guy. How about taking the game off steam and selling it independently through their own website, how much $$$ would the game make then? Bunch of whiners.

>>718467791
Game dev when growing is always a gamble. Many studios especially in the early days are one flop away from having to close down. Even epic said when they were still on consoles doing AAA games how a single flop could be it for them.

30% Gayben tax is criminal and is holding gaming back

>>718469440
It's industry standard, and steam provides more for developers and publishers than any other distribution platform

>>718469440
GOG also takes 30%. Is it also holding gaming back?

>>718469465
>It's industry standard
So is paid online. You fucking retarded niggers would defend steam suddenly requiring you to pay $20/month just to play multiplayer games on pc because
>MUH STANDARDS

>>718460956
This
>autistically made his dream game foe years
>release it, it has some small issues, mostly paint-tier art
>got publisher
>got that vanillaware artist to help him (was it even paid or did he just draw him portraits and cover art after they talked on twitter?)
>release remaster
>release DLC because why not
>retire from gamedev cuz age
>turns out gamedev can be fun + people appreciating your work is a great motivator
>dont promise anything but work on next game anyway
how can be one autistic jap be so based?

>>718458364
It's better to be rich BUT live humble. Use the money to buy a comfy house with garden, meet someone, raise some kid, do some sport, try to write a book or something
Holy shit is it really that hard? Elites lives suck, why would you want to take drugs and shit?

>>718458456
there is a manga
board game
tons of figures
t shirts
hoodies
cups
etc
This is also why etsy is so popular. They usually make fakes unofficial for cheaper.

>>718469564
>So is paid online
No it isn't, steam offers online functionality for free, so does Epic and GOG. It's only consolecuck standard

>>718469564
>So is paid online.
Only for retard console cucks. If steam's cut was too high for the services they provide than publishers just wouldn't use them.

Is making a game really that much work that you can't do it by yourself in your free time?

>>718469710
Why are you bringing Epic into the mix when it has only a 12% Tim tax? The 30% standard comes from consoleshit, hence online should also be paid on PC

>€
???????????
€€€€€€€€€€€€
They were never paid in real money?
Also "medical bills"?? In € land? Where everything is free???
Something here isn't adding up.

>>718456474
bro I make 24k a year and I'm still alive, these bitches can't spend money

>>718453658 (OP)
>On paper this 200,000 sports car makes sense. I mean, I'm a millionaire!
>Oh fuck this 5k a month is really adding up shit

>>718460106
>Steam does nothing
this pooster is tim the remote chewing dog

>>718469808
>The 30% standard comes from consoleshit,
No, it's standard industry cut for everyone except for Tim and his piece of shit store that doesn't work and is full of crypto scams

>>718469808
Tim has the Fortnite money printer. They already mentioned how they won't be able to run their store forever like they do currently as it's so far not profitable.

>>718460373
>provide the best service
>developers and publishers shit on pc gaming for 30 years begging it to die
>singlehandedly keep pc gaming afloat and inspire gog to exist
>publishers seethe and make their own shops on pc (which all fail)
>somehow all of this is steam's fault for being the best for 30+ years and being the most consumer friendly shop on earth that even accepts stolen 4€ russian cd keys

>>718469710
gog usually has neutered multiplayer

>>718470304
>Tim has the Fortnite money printer
And Gayben has CSGO and Pcbro money printers

>They already mentioned how they won't be able to run their store forever like they do currently as it's so far not profitable.
So has GOG and they also have the 30% cut

>>718469564
I don’t think you realize that hosting files, taking care of updates and news flow, being an advertising platform to your own customers, handling refunds, data on use and crashes is an immense value. They do this indefinitely. You gain the biggest reach of online sales.

Trying to do this outside Gay Ben’s garden would cost you far more than 30%. Everyone is free to try to do it. Nobody is forced to use Steam. They do it because they can actually do the napkin math needed to know you’re fucked trying to save a nickel and being roasted for millions instead.

>>718470539
minecraft does it

>>718465757
>software: cant be much. 50 000 MAYBE
You have no idea how jewish software companies are in this day and age

>>718466172
>what is this slop style called?
Untextured low poly
>why do so many indie games look like this nowadays?
Because it makes it very trivial to make assets

>>718460524
Honest answer: because IP is (nearly) worthless. Getting pennies for IP alone is getting money for, essenially, the random thoughts that come through your head. The actual value of any piece of media is very disconnected from the IP: direction, marketing, technical presentation, etc. The big name IPs like Star Wars, Mario, Pokémon are all outliers, one in a more-than-million successes. Most other IP that's pitched is fucking worthless unless there's hundreds of people doing all that other stuff to bring it to market. Even something like ASOIAF, with decades of lore crafting and imagined history, consuming the entire lifetime of a person, is only a middling success. "Buy my IP" is the slightly more sophisticated "I'm the ideas guy".

>>718469643
>>718453658 (OP)
There is 0 reason why this shit is in 3D.
Make it 2D and save a fuckton of money.

>>718469215
probably less since steam has a huge playerbase that can potentially look at the game while poking around steam

>>718453658 (OP)
The great irony about all this is that he would have been less Jo0ed taking out a loan than accepting a publisher.

>>718470512
>And Gayben has CSGO and Pcbro money printers
Tim makes with Fortnite alone probably what Gaben makes with everything including steam. Also Tim tries to startup a service where it's not uncommon to run with losses while growing. No one expects a service to run with losses when they are mature. Or are you suggesting Gaben should run steam with losses after 20 years so publishers can pay a bit more to their shareholders?
>So has GOG and they also have the 30% cut
Which illustrates my point that a 30% cut is not necessarily excessive if you offer a whole package.

>>718470759
>with decades of lore crafting and imagined history, consuming the entire lifetime of a person, is only a middling success
lol
grrm didn't shit out ASOIAF until his 40s IIRC

>>718453658 (OP)
Yeah if you are a creative and want to go the indie route. If you want to make a living on it the secret that every non tard knows is to always cut away the middle men. That's the whole point. And own the copyright to everything.

It's not that hard, and take a basic course of marketing at university.

>>718469440
Unironically

>>718469440
Lol these replies.
>b-but industry standard because it's extra okay when the fat fuck does it
Slurp up some of his salty bathwater and suffocate.

>>718469647
$4M would give you about $12k monthly without losing principal, less if you want to live off of dividends only.

>>718463095
The buildings look more than ok but holy fuck, those trees are dragging everything down, would've been better to not have them and just leave those areas be plain green..

>>718469647
>Elites lives suck, why would you want to take drugs and shit?
Because with money you get all the illegal shit you couldn't previously, what if I told you you can get a loli you just need enough money?

Doesn't sound like he got a shit deal at all, sounds like he's complaining that he had to pay his employees wages

>>718455210
He is a different kind of faggot

>>718455045
Staff of 9, ok that's check out.. kinda

On the authors' website you can see his resume where he "brags" running this studio for a decade or so and managing 50+ peoples (with turnover I guess), which seemed strange considering the quality of the project and how they pay for it with a 75k advance and 2M €

Still, 9 dev seem a bit too much, but I guess a lot of studio needs a lot of folks to do things.

>>718471318
ASOIAF is an extension of his previous works, all set in the same universe and coherent history. Guy's been living in his own imagination his entire adult life. I don't say that to shit on him or his work, I like some of it. But rather to point out the degree of dedication necessary to acheive even a little success with IP alone (and GRRM was writing and directing at times also). Some guy saying, "pay me for my IP" had better be living his IP 24/7/365 to make it even a little worthwhile.

>>718469440
sell the game on your own store if you don't want to pay 30% then

>>718469440
People say this but competitors with vastly more resources and connections *still* cannot come up with something better. It's like Gay Tim whining about the Apple Store. Name a better mobile storefront. You have companies like Microsoft and Google, both of who have much more experience with software distribution and licensing, utterly failing to make a competitor. That's not Apple's fault. It's not Gabe's fault that the largest companies on the planet cannot figure out how to make a games storefront, even though it's just a web front end and a CDN.

>>718461849
>most of economics is a scam
It's precisely all those hidden costs that exist to do legitimate business everywhere that will trip you up thinking you can use a home budget philosophy to run a company.

>>718453658 (OP)
>spend more money than earned
>WOOOW HOW COME I HAVE NO MONEY THE GAME MADE FOUR MILLIONNNNNNS

>>718469440
You lost Timmy. Go back to ripping off Roblox you ugly bald fuck.

>>718453658 (OP)
>after wages

wtf 1 review == 1000 dollarydoos?

>>718456970
Office + employee costs + marketing + whatever else. Videogames are super expensive to make. If you have a team of 10 guys and pay em 50k a year that's 500k in one year, not counting all the extra added costs. Average game takes a couple of years to be made so in 3 years that's 1.5 Million only in sallaries, and its 50k for the employer we talking here, before tax, dudes probably only get 25k each.

>>718477264
A review can be 30-50 sales, even up to 100.

>>718465254
>Kenshi
He's a faggot for not allowing slavery.

>get a "publisher"
>publisher does absolutely nothing except put their name on the product
>that'll be 50% of your revenue plus tip
why even do it? just self-publish.

>>718462764
>where they made all the money they'll ever need.
that's not how money works you retard

>>718462910
do faggots really?

>>718477527
Huh?

Slavery is trivial in Kenshi

>>718453658 (OP)
>sign on with a publisher
>get what you agreed to
>complain about it later
fag.

>>718453658 (OP)
>>"The deal looked fair on paper: $75,000 in advance, with a 50/50 split until they recover $100,000, and then they shift to 60/40 for us," Mochi explained. "For a new team, fair feels like a win."
>
>>Mochi goes on to claim that, "by the time things slowed down," Kasedo Games had earned around $1.2 million from the game, while the development team earned roughly $1.5 million.
>
>>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages, software, servers, hardware, and taxes, they were left with "pretty much nothing."

What was the point of the publisher? Just the $75K upfront?

>>718453658 (OP)
hey at least Gabe got another yacht out of it

bigot

>>718456132
come on Alex, just admit you fucked up

>>718457396
>changing things pointlessly
did you mean to say "improved the game to an unmatched success"?

>>718457396
Oh yeah, the having the highest tier of science being alien artifacts was just that good.

>>718469565
its in their mentality
they can hyperfocus on shit in a way we westerners cant even imagine

>>718455076
It's not factorio it's more like capitalism that came out in 1995.

>>718469565
>retire from gamedev cuz age
nigga, who the fuck is going to make Aslibra 2?

>>718480472
It's an Industry Giant clone.

>>718454716
Its guaranteed

>>718463167
What's the top game?

>>718465757
>lets say the team is 4 guys

Looking it up it was 15.
>I didnt want to outsource any part of development including art and QA because I run a "dream factory" for my games
The devs so retarded its unreal

>>718478495
If you read the article publisher
>TLd the game to 7 languages
>Got them into gamescon
>Paid off streamers to promote their game
>Marketing in general
>Funded it when it was "pre-alpha"

>>718466318
The style was before parkitect. Also parkitect is fantastic so fuck you.

>>718466172
Because making a big amount of assets costs A LOT.
And not all starting indies have money and connections to hire a team of dedicated asset creators.

>>718471941
Just sell it yourself anon, no need for the ex-fat man store, is that easy.

>>718485046
then make a fucking game within their budget and stop putting out so much dogshit in the world

>>718484603
that's misaki

>>718460419
>>718460725
>cyclic development: the success and income of one game, would fund the next one, endlessly
why does this idealistic optimism depress me so much?

>>718465254
>keeping it in the family via his lil sis
hot

>>718485046
Either outsource the grunt work to pajeets/SEA or use AI. There is no excuse.

>>718472865
>everyone wants to be a pedo secretly
Okay Epstein

>>718484264
the marketing is a big deal then. WTF happened, how big is the development team to go broke so quickly?

>>718477527
are you retarded? slavery is a core component of entire regions economies in kenshi

>>718487372
>he doesn't know

>>718453658 (OP)
>He explained that Steam took 30%,
Industry standard. Not Valve or I's problem.

>>718487692
NTA , the PLAYER cannot do slavery and the dev confirmed the player will NEVER be able to enslave people

>>718472485
Yup.
Think the simple shape of the trees is what makes them stand out so much. Like they're manmade monuments.

And the roads with such high saturated colors doesn't look good to me.

>>718454372
I think the implied problem is the publisher asked for a percentage of the gross.

I'm not actually sure what the problem is.
>€4,000,000
>minus steam's 30%
>= €2,800,000
... which is before considering tax and the publisher split
... and then you have to remember this is to repay the entire game's lifecycle, which is 3-5 years for modern game devs (and now this man is claiming it's his LIFE'S WORK, not a few years stint, his LIFE)
... and that this is I assume European salary requirements
... and that you're splitting this among multiple employees, studio rent, computers, insurance, ancillary staff (you know modern devs are too middle class to pick up after themselves)
... and then you're then using this money to fund yourself whilst you make your next three products, because you CAN'T live hand-to-mouth on a product that takes HALF A DECADE to reach the shelves
€4m is nothing if the dev team wasn't sub 5 people. They made a flop.

>>718463167
That bottem pic's buildings look like a ripoff of 1602

>>718488631
>European salary requirements
Oh fuck that explains a lot

>>718466648
>the marketing budget doesn't need to be more 10k USD
you don't know humans and money

>>718453658 (OP)
That publishing deal seems fair. The game could've been like many of other indie games that fail miserably and then the publisher never recoups their costs. They need a higher revenue share to offset the risk of funding a literal nobody otherwise it's not worth it for them.

>>718466808
>I could totally do all those things if I had all that stuff I just made up
He made an extremely successful low budget game. What are you seething about?

>>718475190
>It's like Gay Tim whining about the Apple Store. Name a better mobile storefront.
You're retarded and Timmy was right and that's why he won. Fucking monkey comparing having the option of going through Steam and paying their cut with being forced to go through Apple and paying their cut like it's the same thing.
Go talk about how the woman who sued Mc Donald's over having her thighs disintegrated was a fraud next, you bootlicker.

>>718470818
>Make it 2D
Harder to make it run like shit that way.

>>718488350
>uhm but studies say
>experts opine
Imagine being a slave to made up horseshit.

>>718478532
I'm fine with rich people buying research vessels and funding science, personally. Way better than spending it on child prostitutes, or even worse, Africa.

>>718488631
>percentage of the gross
Going after profit is rough because there is a lot of accounting fuckery you can do to not make a "profit".

>>718453658 (OP)
30% is industry standard.

>>718488350
This is made up bullshit. Or at least it does not come from the claimed source. The article is on scihub and has fuck all to do with the age chart, it was just a test of unspecified age adults vs prebuscent children.

>>718453658 (OP)
The game looks like a poor mans Captain of Industry.

>>718491273
>i-it's m-made up a-actually..
truly pathetic, enjoy going against your nature

>>718469647
Amen

>>718472865
Nigga even as a millionaire i will never leave the only real fleshly earthly pleasure in this world: Instant Ramen Noodles. Drugs are for pussies

>>718488350
This is not surprising at all if they only tested on white females as they age like milk. Now let's see the chart with asian females.

>>718463341
indie publishers are a thing, actually have been a thing longer than self-published indie games.

>>718493557
>Instant Ramen Noodles
For me, it's picrel.
2x spicy is too much for me. Almost puked and was dizzy for hours after.

>>718453658 (OP)
>5000$ for an ip nobody heard about
pretty good deal methinks

>>718493858
Shit's stronger than heroin, dawg

>>718472865
Fat white boomers go to thailand all the time, hardly 'elite'.

>>718491273
>>718492226
Retarded niggers don't know history before Jews mind raped you all about MUH CHILLUNS

>>718487640
Hired some 10~ people

>>718495540
>Uhm actually Mary birthed Jesus when she was 10 and that's totally okay , God is allowed to fuck cunnies but not us! We are more normal and moral than God himself
-retard jew brains

>>718455210
He’s a faggot but the kind of faggot that we could use a few more of.

>>718453658 (OP)
Why does he state the profit in euros but then the deal is in dollars

I hate corporations but i also hate most of indie devs because they are liberal retards and sojmen. Not sure which side i should take here

>>718495956
I think she was 13, your thinking Aisha at 9.

>company foots the bill for everything including salary, so it’s not like he wasn’t being paid
>surprised that there is little surplus
That’s how publishers work. They take the risk, they get first dibs on profit.

>>718496363
Semantics
But yeah
I loathe the faggots castrating themselves to please women and jews

>>718453658 (OP)
it's a shit game anyway

>>718492226
No fucking shit it was all unspecified ages, how the fuck else would you get proper unbiased data? If I show you a picture of a pussy, and you get a hardon, would you also get a hardon if I first told you "uh actually this is a picture of a 10 year old pussy, are you attracted to this?"
Dumbass

>>718460725
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1492360/Recipe_for_Disaster/
what is this dude's fucking problem? what is wrong with indie gamedevs?
how can you look at the vast swathe of what is popular right now and think

"yes, i want to make a cooking sim"

and this isn't just like your first game, but your second, your studio is in shambles and you had to sell off the rights to your first game to make it...and you're making casual streamerbait. good god.
no, idiot. make a RACING game. make an FPS. make a game with broad, lasting appeal that many kinds of people will play not some fucking stupid "life replacement" fucking cooking simulator. do you see any big name cooking sims? no, even on nintendo platforms they're extremely low volume, niche games. you can't run a studio on niche games, and you sure as fuck can't pull yourself out of a hole with one.

>Mochi broke down how that income quickly became "nothing." He explained that Steam took 30%, so it was "gone immediately,"
that 30% went into pushing your game to a fucking storefront and you had zero marketing otherwise.
>while the rest dwindled due to refunds (which, he said, is 10-15% for indies), regional pricing, and gray market resellers.
if you don't want immediate refunds, not that it matters because it's not money owed to you anymore, provide a demo.
if you don't want grey market resellers, don't give out a billion steam keys. the developer is responsible for generating those and not voiding the keys not meant for resale.

why did you even need a publisher?

>>718497152
Nigger I'm saying the study itself did not mention age a single fucking time. Not in the methodology and not in the results. Literally "adult" and "prepubescent" picture and checking if their dicks grow, that's it. The chart has nothing to do with anything in the article because the scientists did not even sort their data by explicit age. Did you at the very least open the paper you stupid fuck? You could have done that in the time you took to write your retarded reply.
No wait, it did actually mention age once. When in the second part of the test they told them the rape audiobook they're listening to features a twelve year old. That's it.

why would you even hire a full time team and not just on commission? is he tarded?

>>718498512
>provide a demo.
I don’t know why this is so hard for devs.
I’m terribly risk-averse and don’t like trying to rely on the 2 hour refund window, so usually I’m not going to grab something that looks potentially interesting unless it’s on a terribly deep sale.
And yet, for my most recent game purchase I paid *full price* and it was entirely because the dev offered a demo that let me try it out and say "yep this is absolutely my sort of game."

>>718453658 (OP)
>waaah i wasted 900k in 3 years please more cocks i am gay

>>718469440
you are a fucking idiot. access to the biggest market would be worth even with 70%

poking in this thread to say you should unionize, you should read marx, capitalists will exploit you and trick you into thanking them for it, etc.

>>718465576
>IT salaries are quite a bit higher than average salaries
Bullshit, I barely make above minimum wage as IT Admin in yurop. Basically same income as any other office wagie

>>718499997
>Nigger I'm saying the study itself did not mention age a single fucking time. Not in the methodology and not in the results. Literally "adult" and "prepubescent" picture and checking if their dicks grow, that's it. The chart has nothing to do with anything in the article because the scientists did not even sort their data by explicit age. Did you at the very least open the paper you stupid fuck? You could have done that in the time you took to write your retarded reply.
>No wait, it did actually mention age once. When in the second part of the test they told them the rape audiobook they're listening to features a twelve year old. That's it.
https://archive.org/details/the-scientific-blackpill_202505/page/n83/mode/1up?q=%22sexual+Arousal+and+arousability+to%22
There are dozens of cited research papers
I'm not reading through them all but it's perfectly plausible.

Are all these Anons ITT shitposting or does half of this board really not know what publishers actually do and what purpose they serve?

>>718495956
9 feels like a really rare case, but I wouldn't be surprised if ~12 was common in agrarian settings

>>718463026
It only affects the dev's bottom line if they're selling keys directly. If they sold a bundle of keys to a 3rd party seller, and then those keys get bought with stolen credit cards, that only affects the 3rd party seller. The dev already got paid for those keys.

>>718510250
It is perfectly plausible. By street knowledge, it's highly probable - at least the part about teens being attractive. That doesn't change the fact whoever made this specific pic is full of shit because he wilfully provided a completely unrelated source to superficially back up a chart he pulled from god knows where. Likely because the title matched the argument and the actual paper wasn't pirateable at the time.

>>718453658 (OP)
>that income quickly became "nothing." He explained that Steam took 30%
That 30% was never income

>>718453658 (OP)
>The developer then went on to explain that, after wages
so this guy is compalining about not receiving extra pocket money??? he got paid salary, what is he whining about

>>718495540
I'd wager half my life savings on this wikipedia article being made by a retard because age of consent wasn't a concept in the 19th century.

>>718515253
Please donate to Black Jewish trans drag queen charity at your earliest convenience
Or something

the mere existence of video game publishers is nothing but Jewish tricks.
>>718460956
fucking based

>>718509060
Was talking about average salaries in IT. That doesn't mean there aren't some IT areas where you don't need to know that much and thus won't necessarily earn much. But software developer isn't one of those.

>>718470635
Is your game the next minecraft?

Always sell niche products at a premium. They would have made twice as much money if they'd charged 60 USD for their game instead of 30. Cities Skylines 2 is at 50 USD. In fact, more people probably would have bought it at a higher price. I don't know where this meme about lower prices comes from. It has to be some capitalist self-con where they don't care about the profitability of their games on average, only the possibility that one of them "blows up" and becomes an ultra-mega hit.

>>718506216
kys commie scum.

>>718500325
well, maybe he thought he could make a sequel, but he badly lacked the funds to do it from what i've seen. 1.2 million? yeah, that aint enough to fund a sequel with a proper dev team.

>>718524547
tl;dr

>earn 4 million
>steam takes 30% of it
>now he has only debt left
I'm not great a math but something feels fishy to me here

>>718526542
fuck off with your low iq strawman, to your low iq death-cult circlejerk, commie scum. You're literally beneath me, don't @ me again, and never post outside of r*ddit either cunt.

>>718523310
retarded take, every stat on steam purchases in existence shows clearly that lower prices and discounts MASSIVELY improve sales and overall profit margins. Don't start a business anon.

>>718526863
explain why you think your boss should earn all the profit while you get paid a paltry wage.

>>718526863
Depends entirely on the niche and if there is market saturation or not. Some ultra niche games like Dominions are sold at a fairly premium price (40€) for an indie game made by two people, but it's also a niche with virtually no competition and the people who buy it will buy it at any price.

>718527206
im not interested in answering your retarded, low iq, loaded questions on your death-cult goyslave ideology. Go be a mindslave for the most evil of kikes somewhere else you offtopic spamming tranny.

>>718526830
many failed businessmen start crying and blaming someone else anon. Vidya is a ruthless business if you don't make a quality product. His claims of economics courses using his game as a teaching tool is dubious, although it might be true now, him going broke is a great object lesson for business courses im sure lmao.

>>718523310
The problem is if your price is high more people will just put it on their wishlist and wait or not buy it. The lower sales mean your ranking in the charts will be lower thus you have even lower sales as fewer people will now see it.

>>718526863
>every stat on steam purchases in existence shows clearly that lower prices and discounts MASSIVELY improve sales

can you please explain how that data has to be interpreted to arrive at that conclusion?

I imagine you would have to release the exact same game in the exact same conditions twice, but for a different price, which should be impossible at least for the point of time of release and for the customers knowing at least one of them earlier than the others

I mean, this is not a consumption good that people buy again and again, it's that one unique game and the next unique game might behave differently

your statement above sounds like an assumption based on some data collected on steam
just like game devs assuming many years ago, that games were "too long" because nobody finished them, without ever imagining, that their games are not good enough and many people just get too bored with them to finish


On topic: 4m sales, even at a low unit proce of, let's say 20, means only 200.000 units sold, which is essentially a huge fail these days
right decision at that point would have been to either stop making games because bad, or find some other retard willing to pay for their next project, which they surely have lined up...

>>718528738
>which is essentially a huge fail these days
not for an obscure indie game

>>718527206
not him, but it's very simple, since the boss decides whether you get the job in the first place or not
don't like it? find a better job, negotiate or become the boss yourself

>>718458268
half the thread are bonafide shills defending a sus as fuck publisher.

>>718455910
Sandfall's publisher actually helped them do the voice casting and got them all the big name actors. And got them funding of course

>>718454165
>Is there any indie dev who isn't a massive faggot?

>>718527206
>explain why you think your boss should earn all the profit while you get paid a paltry wage.
Why would you even sign such contract? Just work for yourself if you can produce so much value on your own.

>>718453658 (OP)
Is this game good? I might buy from a grey market reseller.

>make a ton of money using other people's resources
>have to pay them back
>as a result you get less money
This is not a hard concept.

>>718528738
>I mean, this is not a consumption good that people buy again and again, it's that one unique game and the next unique game might behave differently
theres nothing unique about a city builder economy game anon. Pull your head out of your midwit ass.

>>718530147
the OG Hatred devs were based.

>>718453658 (OP)
Sounds like you suck at managing money

>>718528094
>pic
how many of them were also petty nobles/business owners?

>>718530828
>theres nothing unique about a city builder economy game anon
it's still a lot more unique than most other goods and thus not comparable
you didn't answer the main question: how to arrive at that conclusion about the price elasticity without having any comparable data?
how do you go from game x had a lower price than game y and sold more units, therefor having a lower price increases sales, while conveniently leaving out all the other differences between those games?

>>718530526
the thing is they weren't given some sort of angel investment, they took out a normal loan with 25% interest, but ontop of that they also get 40% of the profit on the game forever

thats fucking retarded lmao

>>718528094
based Joe Steele knew what was up

>>718463008
>>718465757
>software: cant be much. 50 000 MAYBE
Just pirate it
>servers: 200 000
Just build 2 24 TO nas so you can make make copy in case of a crash, this ugly game don't need ton of ressource
>hardware: 100 000
1000 bucks computer will do the job, cheap screen and all, if you're making your first game don't try to act like a pro

>>718528978
>>718530270
>You need to negotiate for higher wages, silly!
>No no no not like that you can't unionize and you have to do it all legally STOP STOP STOP

>>718532416
>Just pirate it
Much fun with the lawsuit.

>>718453658 (OP)
>Release a video game
>Invoice 4 million
>Steam takes 30%
>The publisher takes 40% of the 30%
>The government takes 25% if you invoice as a company
>You have 1.2 million left
>You hire 17 people (let's increase that to 20)
>Let's say €2,000 net salary, which is €2,888 gross
>2,888 x 14 payments = €40,432
>20 people at that salary, we have €808,640 in expenses per year

>>718533297
wow, a bunch of shithole countries and a case of corpo dick measuring, very scary!

>>718532628
neither I nor the other Anon opposed unionizing, you should stop making up scenarios in your head to get angry about, Anon

>>718527206
>mfw my boss's contribution to his business was providing millions of dollars worth of infrastructure and equipment and I have zero skills and one month of training to do a job that literally anyone could do
PAY. UNSKILLED. MEXICANS. WHAT. THEYRE. WORTH.

>>718453658 (OP)
Single player wins once again.

>>718533452
>>The publisher takes 40% of the 30%
30%?

>>718533478
>US
>shithole countries
Those are just some examples of companies getting sued because some random pc had pirated software on it not them actively pirating as company policy like you suggest.

>>718454429
Those neo-Marxist literal motherfuckers had it coming tho.

>>718532416
>Just pirate it
The better suggestion would be to use open source. Linux=free. Blender=free. Godot=free.

>>718533297
How can they know if I made my small game by myself with or without a loicense ? What if I take 3 years to make my game but only paid for the last one ? How can they know if how much time I used for my game ?
We're talking about indies games, not big studio with hundreds of employes

>>718465932
Retarded euro

so it was a jointly developed game? yeah no shit 4 million dollars is not a lot of money for an entire company, let alone two.

>>718533710
So they need to go and check every computer ? How about no ? Those corporation have no real right

>>718527206
Who do you think provides you the job?
The machines you work with?
Handles the logistics beyond your worker bee tasks?
Pays out of their pocket if something goes wrong?
Holy fuck you can't be that fucking stupid