Thread 719237180

I'm 100% sure people that praise this game just pick a broken ash of war, summons and just out health the bosses.

If you actually deal with the mechanics in this game, you hate it, simple as.

Bait animation after bait animations, some attacks you can parry, others you can't and there is no way of knowing until you bash your head against a boss again and again, in which at that point why have animations in the game at all? If they don't reflect what's happening on gameplay, better to have random counters and numbers across the screen.

This is just a time wasters and artificial difficulty and bad design to make the game harder and a miserable experience to anyone that dares to actually play the game.

>>719237180 (OP)
Git gud

It's not a skill based game, it's just a memory puzzle. Enjoy the cool enviroments and abilities and cheese the dogshit bosses, don't stress yourself.

for a "action rpg" ER has pretty shitty "action". the world cool to go around at least

There are two types of Souls games: ones where you parry, and there are games you roll. You parry in Sekiro, Bloodborne, and Lies of P. You roll in Dark Souls and Elden Ring. Figuring out which one of the two types of Soulslikes you're playing is step number 1 to enjoying it. If you were trying to parry in Elden Ring, you were playing it wrong in the first place

I've had the exact same issue playing AI Limit or Wuchang.
Those animation designers are fucking stupid.

Bosses in dungeons are closer to dark souls bosses and I enooyed fighting them. I agree that putting bullshit bosses while giving you basically skip button is a bad game design

>>719237180 (OP)
>grandpa can't deal with delayed attacks
lol, lmao even
Maybe play a walking sim or something, faggot.

>>719237180 (OP)
Anon the bosses used to just swing at you but then the entire audience of the old games got good enough to consistently parry/dodge it.

So the reason all the attacks are difficult to predict and you have to learn timings is because its made more difficult for the already existing audience. Same reason attacks track you and home in on a character who rolls too early, ect ect.

>>719237290
/From games
/thread

>>719237438
Fucking KEK

crazy how the enemies give you very clear tells on their attacks and you fucks STILL cant react.

>>719237528
Yeah, what a terrible fucking way to try to make a game more difficult. Instead of making it mechanically complex, they just turn it into pure rote memorization.

>>719237180 (OP)
I hate how I can't even play indie games without this retarded shit randomly getting smeared into my face.
Nepobaby33 and GRIME are the 2 recent ones that did this shit and made big bosses intentionally less fun to play than smaller side bosses without cinematics.

>>719237180 (OP)
>pic
Don't forget the other category of fromsoft enemy, where they select all animation bones and hit randomise location/rotation

>>719237528
>attacks track you and home in
this is just artificial difficulty

>>719238320
Would be cool to have actual input requirement skill or needing fast reflexes or even strategical thinking but nope just make retarded animations that make no sense when seeing the first time and then just memorize the timing.

>>719237438
top kek

>>719237528
>but then the entire audience of the old games got good enough to consistently parry/dodge it.
there's nothing wrong with this. maybe design better levels like dark souls 1 so the actual game would be fun and it wouldn't have to be sold on "dude its so difficult i swear on me mum"

instead they ham up artificial difficulty in bosses and replace tightly tuned level design with elden slop open world fields

>>719237180 (OP)
It really pissed me off how in Stellar Blade this shit doesn't happen until the final boss who suddenly has wonky broken ass attack windups, fuck this gook shit.

>>719237180 (OP)
fromsoft seem to be in a constant meta arms race to outmatch their own player base when it comes to boss design. I'm not sure how much further they can push the envelope after consort radahn, if at all. but I'm sure they will find some dumb way to do so.

>>719238502
>>719238320
>>719238650


It's like this because in testing they found that basic swing attacks that are predictable are too easy for the audience they have. They discuss it in depth.

You wanting the bosses to be easier is not going to make the games better when game designers are being paid extremely large amounts of money to do the opposite and it's working.

>>719239308
if you're good at a game you're supposed to be able to get bosses down in one try. you can't put artificial delays, that turns it into trial and error where you can't beat bosses the first time you meet them because you didn't learn the timings yet

>>719239406
>You're supposed to get bosses down in one try

The audience doesn't want that though, you can play any number of other games where that's the case if you personally want.

>>719239494
way to ignore the "if you're good at the game" retard
i bet you think bed of chaos is amazing game design then. retarded fromsoft shill. 50 yen have been deposited to your account. go hang yourself in aokigahara.

>>719237438
Skill issue. The boss telegraphed his attack for 7 seconds straight. You had 7 seconds to move away.

>>719238320
>Yeah, what a terrible fucking way to try to make a game more difficult.
This. Everything should be accessible for new players at all times. If I can't pick up a game and play it without having first studying the genre, it's trash. Tuning a video game to be more challenging for people who play video games is fucking stupid, both on a moral level and a business level.

>>719239752
>If I can't pick up a game and play it without having first studying the genre
i've played more than 10 soulslikes of course the games should be easy for me

>>719239406
In the old days if you struggled with a boss, you played it with a shield first and started rolling more as you figured it out.

There's nothing wrong with this. Bosses universally following the same attack patterns wouldn't be that interesting 8 games in.

>>719237438
This is the best webm I've ever seen.

>>719239951
I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FUCKING BOSSES THOUGH
MAKE INTERESTING LEVELS INSTEAD OF COPYPASTED CATACOMBS WITH THE SAME DOG STATUE BOSSES, 12 SEPARATE ERDTREE BOSSES. NOBODY LIKES THIS SHIT. MAKE REAL LEVELS THAT ARE FUN TO PLAY.

im glad elden ring bosses are creative and filled with random tricks instead of ds3 bosses where you just roll forward whenever the boss does anything
get a more fleshed out moveset, good tanking, jump and duck under shit

>>719237397
>You parry in Bloodborne
Nobody parries in Bloodborne.

>>719237438
Holy shit my sides

>>719237438
only missing one thing: the boss should stay facing the direction he started at, but after the hammer comes down at light speed, it freezes for 0.3s at the halfway mark and then changes trajectory to the player who was moving to the right the whole time

>>719237438
feels like im about to sneeze but cant

>>719237438
f-fromsisters...

I call it the VIG tax and STR tax, if you want to play the game normally you need high VIG and at least 16 STR (12 for mages).
Successfully blocking and countering is just as fun and there aren't many games with that kind of combat.

>>719240050
>NOBODY LIKES THIS SHIT
So why is ER the most popular soulsslopper by far then, hm? If people don't like that stuff it must be because they heckin' love it.

>>719239136
SoTE seemed to push the bullshit as far as it could possibly go without making the bosses straight up unbeatable without a cheese build. My guess would be a major rework of the mechanics for their next title.

>>719239406
>if you're good at a game you're supposed to be able to get bosses down in one try
Yes
>you can't put artificial delays, that turns it into trial and error where you can't beat bosses the first time you meet them because you didn't learn the timings yet
Sounds like you aren't good at the game yet, friend. Keep practicing.

>>719237438
The only boss that got me feeling like this is Heolstor from Nightreign all of its attacks literally start out delayed

>>719238320
What does "mechanically complex" look like to you?

>>719240315
do you know what critical mass is? do you understand consumer psychology? why do you think first time players have any understanding of what is good when elden ring sold more than 2.5x what the previous game with highest sales in the fromsoft catalogue had? that's not organic.

it's popular because dark souls 1 was popular so people said dark souls 2 must be popular and it was popular because dark souls 1 was popular and because dark souls 2 was popular because dark souls 1 was popular, dark souls 3 was popular because dark souls 2 was popular because dark souls 1 was popular so naturally following from this sekiro was popular because it was the spiritual follow up which was popular because dark souls 3 was popular because dark souls 2 was popular because dark souls 1 was actually good, and after years of expectation (because dark souls 3 and 2 and 1 were popular) the new follow up elden ring released to much hype by people who got into dark souls 3 because dark souls 1 was popular, this was picked up by MASSIVE HUGE SOULSLIKE FANS playing their first soulslike because they heard dark souls 3 was amazing because dark souls 3 was popular because dark souls 2 was popular because dark souls 1 was popular because dark souls 1 was good

90% of these retards who pat themselves on the back because they beat the "dude its so hard" game played it with mimics anyway

>>719237438
When you're jorkin it and can't cum but then it zooms in on the guy's asshole

>>719240661
Shazam lost

>>719237180 (OP)
The biggest problem elden ring has is the long windup animations paired with 1 frame unreactable swings. The fight devolves into guessing when the windup is finished instead of reacting to the attack.

>>719237397
>You roll in Elden ring?
>The roll button has a delay
You don't hate fromsoft enough. Also the input buffering is bullshit.

>>719241278
This.

>>719237180 (OP)
Whenever I fight a new From boss, or any action game boss really, I always refrain from attacking for 5 or 10 minutes while maintaining distance.
Gives me time to observe most of the boss' attack patterns and learn when and how to launch counterattacks.
It isn't foolproof of course, phase transitions that I fail to notice and certain AI still knock me on my ass occasionally, but I found that this approach works for me quite well
Recently however, I've watched some streamers play Elden ring and was mortified to find that most of them just blindly bumrush the boss over and over again until they form the requisite muscle memory to power through.

Am I really the outlier here or did I just coincidentally stumble upon several grug-brain players in a row?
How do you guys learn bossfights?

>>719240379
I hope so. Radhan and shadow of the erdtree was like the cherry on top on how much bullshit has fromsoft accumulated through the years. Nonstop attacks, AoE, oneshots, cheap trick animations, health bars, shitty camera, and literally a combo you can't roll through (the X attack) it feels like a parody of itself. I hope they don't keep this formula, they should have gone with the slower dark souls 2 formula and not the crack addict spam formula of dark souls 3

>>719239951
>You played with a shield
Try that now lmao. Bye bye stamina and you eat the last 7 attacks of the 10 attacks combo the boss does (you get killed with only 2 attacks anyways, despite having full vigor).

>>719239628
No you see?? He did a 0.05mm twitch with the hammer the last 0.3 seconds git gud

>>719237180 (OP)
>delayed attacks... le bad! upboats to the right
Just admit you have a skill issue

>>719241278
>Also the input buffering is bullshit.
Input buffering is only a problem if you spam like a sperg. Just press the button for the actions you actually want to perform. Simple as.

>>719241391
>I love wasting time
How about designing a game with learnable mechanics instead of bait after bait for the sake of difficulty?

You can make difficult games with mechanically accurate gameplay because those games already exist.

>>719242054
>Input buffering is only a problem if your game code quality is 20 years retarded
ftfy

>>719241391
The "bumrush" as you call it is just more fun.

>>719242054
>>Also the input buffering is bullshit.
>Input buffering is only a problem if you spam like a sperg. Just press the button for the actions you actually want to perform. Simple as.
Nigga, the game has delayed animations, shit camera, shit lockon and a roll with a delay. And some same animations have different follow-ups so you can never be sure which one will it be. The game has objectively artificial difficulty and you are praising shit as if it was gold.

>>719242178
All aspects of all video games are artificial, dumbo. Take a breath, sit up straight and stop spamming the buttons. It will be like the input buffering was never even there.

>>719242145
>Wdym you don't like running around for 10 minutes?
In old dark souls games you had other alternatives like using a shield >>719239951
Now you cant even do that because the power creep has increased while the player still has to deal with handicaps like the input delay or the lock on.

>>719240315
>So why is ER the most popular soulsslopper by far then, hm?
BECAUSE ITS A FUCKING MEME AT THIS POINT, NOT A GAME SERIES

>>719242290
I can't even spam the buttons. The game doesn't let me because it buffered the roll I did 10 seconds ago while I get chain poise stunned.

>>719242178
Noooo you can't name any flaws just like gitgud, amirite bros anyway see you on twitch chat XDDD

>>719237478
>wuchang
That’s like free poise break tho

>>719240315
>Lots of consumers consume the same slop, therefore it is good!
I hate you /v/tards like you would never believe. I guess you also love burger king and marvel movies because millions of brown lardos don't know better

>>719237290
>Its not a skill based game, it's just a memory puzzle
This. Except the puzzle doesn't have matching colors and the image it represents is broken by default

>>719237438
Fromsoftdrones, how do we respond?

>>719242768
Is this the final stand of neversoulsers? That Dark Souls is like a colour matching puzzle but too hard? Embarrassing.

>>719242060
>I love wasting time
Well, yeah.
I'm hanging out on /v/ with you dorks.
Clearly I don't value my time very much.

>>719237180 (OP)
>waaaah i cant insta roll or roll spam through everything!!!
>i have to have good reaction times and play reactively rather than proactively!!!

Go play dark souls 3 you faggot

>>719239628
>>719237438
Good point
The animation needs him magnetizing forward 50m to hit the player as well

>>719237180 (OP)
From's boss design started showing this shit in Bloodborne, it became very widespread in DS3, and then by Elden Ring it became terminal spread across every single boss almost.

>>719243078
Ohhh is that why I felt like DS3 was off?
I didn't play BB so the jump from DS2 was really weird.

>>719243078
No blood borne boss has delayed attacks, and in ds3 its like just dancer and maybe nameless king

>>719237290
This
I love fromosft games but they are basically pattern recognition tests
Those that struggle with one of the most basic functions of the human brain reveal themselves to be subhuman (probably Indian)

People that complain about the timing of bosses being weird fought Morgot on the entrance of Stormveil, got their shit pushed in, and now cry about it online.

>>719240661
TRVTH NVKE

>>719243207
You can beat that guy or any other awful boss in these games and still think they were crap

>>719240168
>he had to summon to beat the bosses
oh no no no no

>>719237438
He doesn't fake swings nearly as much as he should be.

You guys are so fucking shit at videogames holy shit
bunch fo fucking nigger casuals, kill yourselves, I'm so glad Elden Ring filtered all of you and showcased how fucking much you all suck shit.
Artificial difficulty? Unfair attacks? Just git gud and learn the fucking game you fucking faggots. All bosses and enemies are perfectly fucking beatable, you just suck shit

>>719243363
Sure, but that complaint is distinctly related to Morgot.
Someone that got further into the game may complain about the double-boss fights, or Radahn's fight without the summon spam.
But this is a complaint about something that distinctly about the first boss in the game. No other boss exhibits this harder than Morgot.
It's a complaint that flags you as someone who's impression of the game is based on the first boss and little else.

>>719237180 (OP)
>I intentionally gimped myself and now the game is too hard this cant be happening
How many times do we need this thread

>>719243721
as many as needed. We know 4chan will be dead the moment these fucking faggots who suck at souls games stop being called for being bad

>>719237180 (OP)
>boss is a bloodborne reference

>>719243207
I did several level 1 playthroughs of the base game
the way you beat all the bosses without a shield is pretty much exactly the same; memorize their exact swing animations, roll at the right time, attack them a bit, back off
margit/morgott is obviously one of the worst offenders but bell bearing hunter, tree sentinels (especially the camera breaking jumps), radahn, both godskins, godfrey 2, placidusax, astel, and malenia all have really dumb shit you just have to sit there and memorize the timing for
>>719240609
not him but universally lowered tracking and lowered player iframes would be a massive improvement to the game overall as long as bosses can still deal with players running behind them in some way
i'm fine with the dodge being used as a way to avoid attacks but it should be much riskier than it is to encourage people to just get out of range or juke an attack's hitboxes in a clever way with good spacing

>>719244307
>without a shield
I don't know why the fuck people repeat this. I feel like shields are horrendously fucking useless against bosses

>>719244368
shields open up some different strategies like guard countering the last hits of punishable combos but the way most people are using them is just max tank fingerprint shield poke spam, which is pretty much an alternative playstyle in and of itself because you don't need to memorize animations and instead play the stamina regen game

>>719244562
yeah but I've always felt like that shit doesn't work. Bosses attacks either bypass shield defense or hit so hard that they break the guard easily anyway

>>719237438
lol

>>719244641
I haven't used it myself, but there were a lot of people using it for the last DLC boss so I have to assume it works in some capacity. Likely they are very high leveled which helps as well

>>719237180 (OP)
I find Elden Ring unpleasant to play because you can't trust your most basic instincts, as the enemies use counterintuitive strategies to become unpredictable.
It's perfectly possible for a totally predictable game to be super challenging, you just have to raise normal encounters to the thousandth power. For example, Doom 2 is a super predictable game, enemies clearly telegraph what they're going to do, and you can avoid almost all basic attacks by stepping to the side. But the community makes absurdly difficult levels because they put more monsters in more complex situations.
Of course, this wouldn't work in a From Software game, because anything group-based already breaks all battles (just look at how Mimic Tear is ultra overpowered because it attracts the boss's aggro).
So they would need to find another solution to keep the game difficult but predictable. They apparently didn't even try, though. They preferred to make all the fights into a comedy skit where the fighters try to trick their opponents with comical movements.

>>719237180 (OP)
I have this same issue with expedition 33, you expect an attack to hit and then it randomly fucking adds slow motion, it's not even consistent.
I parry 90% of the game and yet it's so amazingly inconsistent between enemies to the point of frustration.

>>719244732
Maybe. Either case I really feel like after how OP they were in demon souls and dark souls 1 shields fell hard in usefulness. Not against most regular enemies tho, but definitely against bosses

>this attack is 3 frames long
>this attack is 3 seconds long
>the explosion deals no damage, just roll through it
>the invisible explosion one shots you if you roll, why didn't you jump

>>719237438
reminds me of the mime from E33

>>719237438
Zanzibart.....

>>719237438

There are a few enemies that do this exact same shit in Expedition 33, it's infuriating.

>>719237180 (OP)
>I'm sure people just use this games mechanics to beat it and don't play it like the other games with only their mechanics.

Every. Time.

>>719244368
Depends on the boss and attacks. I couldn't figure out Malenia's timings then realized I could simply block her entire waterfowl dance.
Even if some bosses guard break you, they don't always have a follow up to capitalize on it
I had a good time on my first playthrough with a greatshield, guard counters are really fun. The game gives you so many tools, you can completely switch approaches depending on the fight. Blocking didn't always solve every encounter but it helped often

>>719245136
E33 had sound and camera cues so its not too bad.
Only bad one was chromatic ram bonk, which was done on purpose. Funny fight.

>>719239308
>>719239752
Illiterate monkeys. ER wasn't hard, it was just boring. Pure memorization makes for shit combat.

>>719240609
Sekiro was a more mechanically complex game, but that was all built around 1 weapon and play style so it wouldn't work. Bloodborne moved towards complexity with trick weapon movesets that changed your range and damage type and that was a step in the right direction, but DaS3 and ER just went back to doing more but shallow options. They should have leaned into that and into different encounters needing different types of tools sonce that's the only way to add mechanical complexity to that type of combat without adding actual combos and tight hitboxes and good controls (the antithesis of From games). And no, a fucking shield counter and 1 canned animation ash of war isn't more mechanically complex than a transforming weapon.

>>719237180 (OP)
Rot pot. Not my problem?

>>719245274
>Spamming a skill, perma stunning the enemy and spamming bleed and killing it in 10 seconds is good gameplay
>Using summons and breaking the enemy's AI is good gameplay

>>719239308
Thing is, the ER devs did address this in the dlc with the dancing lion fight; it punishes you if you try to stand beside its head. Thats a neat detail that requires you to pay attention to the boss and think, rather than trial and error out the swing timing (i did not think and thus died over a dozen times before realizing)

>>719245352
Notice how the git gud spammers solution is to use broken mechanics and completely ignore the games gameplay with DPS rush, making the OP right.

>>719245656
How is the player penalized? I have never played the DLC.

>>719245591
>>719245713

You are not the arbiter of if a mechanic is broken and if something is good gameplay. You are nobody.

>>719243078
Bloodborne's pacing and combat mechanics made it a natural thing. It had no fucking business being added to DS3 at all let alone persisting past that.

>>719240079
there's no duck button thoughbeit

>>719237180 (OP)
>>719237438
This is my biggest gripe with Elden Ring. Every boss is just memorizing their delayed animations because the movements are too unnatural to react to on your first try. There is no "gitting gud" because the most important expression of skill is just memorization, which doesn't transfer between enemies.

>>719245743
He has a very fast, short lunge that he uses only if you're next to his head, and he can use it immediately after a combo
Stay out in front of him and suddenly he goes from a ridiculous spammy mess to a fun fight

>>719237438
Actual. Earnest. Conversation.

Wouldn't a better boss has clearly telegraphed attacks without fake out attacks but enhanced aggression where you can only damage them during one of their attacks (basically their wind down) so hat both the player and the boss basically never stop attacking but the gimmick is just learning the timing of where to move and when you can attack?

I don't wanna hear shit about parry mechanics in ER unless it's from someone who has tried to parry bosses in DS2. Only then can you realize how good you guys have it. At least your hitboxes and timing in ER actually line up with the animations.

>>719245974
just block

>>719237290
>cheese
I still want to look cool and move cool while fighting them though.

>>719246163
this is just how aggressive fights in old-school monster hunter work
due to lower player mobility and tougher to use iframes you have to pick your openings well
it's a very good formula

>>719242054
>Push button
>Button doesn't seem to work
>Push button again
>Character dodges
>Character dodges again
Maybe making a gameplay choice like this just makes your game feel poorly designed?

>>719246212
>That one launch move the Pursuer has where the only viable way to parry it is to literally do a 180 and parry it looking away from him because the parry hitbox won't hit the move's hitbox otherwise.

Margit is there for a reason, if you're getting like super stressed out trying to dodge roll every hit of his combo you're playing wrong, he's there so you can skill check how to play the game going forward. you dont need to "dodge" any of his combos, you just need to find the two or three moves he has you can safely roll into and attack.\

>>719245297
>I could simply block her entire waterfowl dance.
can you?
doesn't she heal to full hp and it bypasses defense anyway?

>>719241391
I usually just bumrush the boss (with magic) and kill it before I learn it has moves.
Since I soloed all these bosses that means I'm the best at this game.
I also did it faster than you so (metaphorically) polish my cock fag.

>>719237438
the person who made this is bad at elden ring, and i can tell because they didn't add a foot twitch telegraph.

foot twitch always telegraphs the true hitbox, just watch godfrey

>>719242054
People who defend input buffering in From games think shit controls are a feature. They are subhuman.

>>719246749
I think the biggest crime of Elden Ring bosses is their contempt for the concept of momentum and velocity.

>>719237438
Oh no fromsloppers our response?

>>719237180 (OP)
Because it was exclusively made for us hardcore elite gamers
Go play your button mashing action slop child

>>719241391
I simply try my best to beat them in my first try with my sheer survival instinct
i ALMOST first tried sisyphus prime, he died with 1/8 health when i missed my screwdriver. That was all my energy so i died 10 more times afterwards

>>719237180 (OP)
>Hold L1 when you see new attack
>When that attack happens again, press B
Imagine not only ignoring game mechanics, but also ignoring buttons on your controller.
>B-but i take chip damage!
Ok? It's usually negligible damage and will always be better than eating the whole hit.

>>719237438
The boss shouldbe 50 meters away and then slide through the floor and magnetically reach the player character at the last milisecond

>>719246487
You think that's bad?
Fume Knight. Dear god Fume Knight was so bad trying to do an only-parry run. Like holy fuck NOTHING on that boss' hitbox or stagger was playtested. You literally need to throw out your parry a few frames AFTER he's already started swinging because for some GOD FORSAKEN FUCKTARDED REASON THE FUCKING HITBOX FOR HIS MOVES IS DELAYED BY ALMOST A 30 WHOLE FRAMES!

>>719246482
>>719246727
>>719242178
>>719242141
Works on my machine
Stop mashing like a retard

>>719245974
Shitter

>>719239627
Except you can get the boss down in one try if you're actually good at the game. The crux of the problem is that you're clearly not actually good at the game but rather than putting in the effort to get good at the game you want the difficulty of the game to be lowered to the point where you would be able to breeze through it.

>>719247758
Yeah, and using a brass shield and jumping heavies with the golden halberd worked on my machine. Still mechanically a shit game.

>>719240168
And the attack hitbox needs to cover a square mile, and not match up with the animation.

Why do we keep making excuses for elden ring and fromsoft being total garbage?

>>719248090
there isn't a single person walking on this earth that took malenia down on the first try

You know what's interesting? A decade ago people were saying that DS1 and DS2 were unnecessarily hard and needed a difficulty setting. Nowadays DS1 is genuinely considered easy for most people and DS2 is still bitched about but that's mostly because of level design and enemy placement rather than it actually being hard.
The skill level of gamers seems to have gone up pretty high over the years.

>>719246163
Yes, that's how other games do it and how FROM used to do it in Demons Souls and Dark Souls 1. Yui Tanimura started this shit with Dark Souls 2

>>719249436
From is a one trick pony and the "difficulty" is all just knowing when to press the magic iframes button. For anyone who's played more than 1 Souls game, it's simple. From, and Tanimura especially, are creatively bankrupt so instead of making the games more mechanically complex amd engaging, they just add delay roll catch windups and swiveling with magnet tracking. This is of course also ignoring shields, heavy strength weapons and magic because they trivialize all the games.

>>719249874
Sekiro really does feel like the only game where they actually tried to make a brand new game which is funny because at the time of the game's announcement I was sure I wouldn't like it but I've come around to it. I seriously don't understand the praise for ER since it really just feels like DS3 but with vast swaths of empty space separating areas.

>>719241278
>button mashing gorilla nigger
Lol

>>719250391
>I seriously don't understand the praise for ER
Fromdrones and new blood who didn't want to jump into Dark Souls. I work with a zoomer that's never played a Souls game but loves ER. He always summons, and loves Expedition 33 as well.

>>719246212
>>719247661
Why are you obsessed with parrying?
Why are any of you obsessed with parrying? Do you post justin 3S clips thinking you're cool? Are you the reason every recent action game is parryslop?

What souls idiots don't understand is that having to "learn" every boss is incredibly tedious and lame as fuck compared to learning a game like Dwarf Fortress or Kenshi or Dominions or any complicated game that requires research and learning a bunch of unique mechanics.
Fighting 100 enemies to learn their patterns is a massive waste of time and not fun compared to learning 100 game mechanics that include variety and actually thinking.
It's far more engaging learning a strategy game than trial-and-error 'gameplay'.
That's my opinion having played 300 hours of souls games. You can have your opinion, but I think you're a fucking idiot praising trial-and-error gameplay of souls shit. Losing a dwarf fort after 10 hours is 100x more fun that fighting the same boss for 1 hour.

>>719250710
Because I like the Souls games and wanted to see if I could master every gimmick and mechanic in the game at one point. It's not the deep bro. Also your webm actually shows what I mean when I say they didn't playtest that boss. Right at the beginning the player literally runs straight through his sword but because the hitbox is delayed it didn't hit him.

>>719250710
>Dex build with high ADP
You didn't beat DS2.

>>719250871
I don't run through it, I run around and past it because it has limited tracking

>>719244734
Its obvious that you all are super egotistical retards that cant handle a little bit of trial and error. There is always something inherently bad about something you couldnt figure out the first time. You would rather feel badass and too smart by figuring something out really fast but thats kind of boring and was a problem with most of DS3.

>>719251016
>high ADP
wat

>>719251024
This absolutely would have clipped you if the hitbox wasn't delayed. This is the same game where Pursuer's grab attack will hit you when you're standing on his side.

>>719251056
More like you're sucking the cock of bad design for no reason.

>>719245136
Fucking trumpet guy every time. And his chroma fight can only be beat by parraying.

>>719251130
You have a high AGL stat because your character shifts from attacking to running faster than if it was below 100. You lvl'd ADP.

https://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Agility
Fun fact it also controls how fast you two hand things which is why I think you were trying not to two-hand.

>>719251167
>This attack which isn't touching your model totally would have hit you if the hitbox was in thin air 2 foot to the left and behind the sword bro
OK

>>719251536
>your character shifts from attacking to running faster
That's nothing to do with ADP and you need to learn how to sprint buffer little buddy

>>719237180 (OP)
Heres an idea, dont fall for bait lmao

>>719251624
Anon your cape in that webm is literally phasing through the fucking sword? Are you okay? I'm just pointing out that the boss is broken as shit which isn't even that controversial because half of the bosses in DS2 are broken as shit.

>>719251703
>sprint buffer
Okay now you're just making shit up. Do you mean holding the sprint button down as the attack is coming out? That's not buffering idiot. That's literally how the game is designed to be played around. I'd boot up my DS2 right now to show you that AGL has a direct effect in how fast your character switches from attacking to moving again but I don't feel like making a 3 video demonstration just to prove you wrong.

>>719237180 (OP)
Watch out, you might trigger the souls trannies who aren’t good at video games but thinks Souls likes are the pinnacle of skill.

>>719237438
KEK. Every boss is like this, it’s like the developers sniff their own farts while modeling the attack animations and think it’s funny to make the boss react accordingly by holding his sword longer randomly. And then once you pick the meta build it doesn’t matter anyways because you just fuck the boss.

>>719239136
It's also the only way to keep people from realizing it's the same game every time

>>719237438
This. But the boss will also be going for one player, and right when the sperg delayed tranny attack occurs the boss does a 1080 barrel roll and swoops towards the other player. Makes a lot of sense!

>>719237290

This. It's laughable that Sekiro redditards think they're proficient at some high level skill and that if you beat the game but can't beat the retarded gauntlets you somehow "lucked out" on fights.

Nigga, I beat Isshin after grinding for hours on him to memorize his moves like I did every other asshole boss. If I go back to that horse bitch from the beginning and it's been a while since i fought him of course I won't be able to beat him quickly.

There is no bigger transferrable skill or strategy, it's a timing thing. Imagine bragging about being good at guitar hero or some shit.

>>719237438
HOLY KEK

>>719246608
It only bypasses your block if she's doing it above you, keep her in front of your shield and each strike only scratches a tiny piece of your stamina
Yeah she'll heal up a bit, but I had enough damage output to afford it

>>719237290
Memory is a skill. It's not all reaction time.

>>719242054
You roll when you release the button, not when you tap the button, like it used to be.

>>719237180 (OP)
>parryfag throwing a melty because his crutch won't carry him anymore
Shield chads keep on winning.

>>719251901
I'm not going to spoonfeed you something you can look up in a dictionary dipshit, by all means prove your random claims with a webm

>>719251758
>your cape

>>719237438
Elden Ring permanently damaged From's reputation, they'll always be known for this now.

>>719253874
This is nothing compared to Dark Souls 2 at release

>>719251901
Okay but you're still confusing agility with animation recovery. AGL affects i-frames and some marginal item use speed, not post-attack movement delay. If you're snapping into running faster after swings it's because of input timing and knowing when your animation is cancellable. Sprint buffering is real-try holding the sprint button near the end of an R1 and see how fast you move, it's not just "holding it down." You're getting filtered by your own misunderstanding, bro. Please actually test stuff instead of parroting reddit-tier misinformation.

>>719248252
The player should clearly move out of the way of the hammer but get flattened anyway.

>>719237290
memory is a skill
maintaining composure (not panic rolling, or unga-bunga aggression) is a skill.

>>719237290
this
ER becomes incredibly more enjoyable when you just cheese and steamroll the fuck out of everything, and you can play it as a grimdark Skyrim with no towns and better combat

>>719252582
>Memory is a skill
lol lmao no it isn't
>>719256369
lmao fromtards are delusional. No wonder you identify with these faux-difficulty games so much, you are unable to accomplish anything else in life

>>719237180 (OP)
Parrying and blocking literally invalidates consort Radahn.

>>719242054
>Input buffering is only a problem if you spam like a sperg.
no, you can get double tapped after you get hit because the input queueing has to release the dodge you don't need anymore. Enjoy!

>>719237180 (OP)
I agree entirely.
I bought it and I felt its limits within an hour and just returned it

If I want that kind of gameplay experience Ill just reinstall For Honor

Some random negro playing peacekeeper is 100x harder than any elden ring boss and his tricks will at least be legitimate

>>719256369
>panic rolling
You can only call it panic rolling if the animation does in fact properly indicate the timing of the attack so you messed up by not watching the animation
If the animation looks like >>719237438 then it's not "panic rolling", it's called Guessing Wrong

it kinda feels like you guys are just shit at this game desu

>>719246749
Fucking Godfrey/Hoarah Loux is the worst for this on the second phase. He will literally slow down mid-leap with his grab attack.

>>719237528
>>719238520
this problem could be entirely preventable by literally removing iframes and making movesets designed around hitbox avoidance and good positioning, rather than making the timings for rolls less intuitive

>>719257490
I think it's prevalent too but weirdly enough I find it actually helps me react to the moves better. Easier to catch the rhythm when its so spaced out from everything else. Rough on seeing it for the first time but way easier to get away from then on

>>719239494
>The audience doesn't want that though,
I've been here since DS1
speak for yourself

>>719240079
DS3 are literally the same thing as ER ones but with slightly more intuitive timings across the board and less bullshit AoE/endless combos
but the exact same boss design philosophy is already there and on full display
only midwits couldn't see it back in 2016

I can't believe you people are still bitching about delayed attacks. How many times are you gonna fall for it?

>>719241391
>Am I really the outlier here
Yeah, that's not how the average player psychology works and what is satisfying for them
hint: good game design has to work around average player psychology

>>719243116
Yes, DS3 was unironically tweaked to be like a Bloodborne sequel once miyazaki took over development

>>719251056
>that cant handle a little bit of trial and error
the issue is when the trial and error is forced across the entire player base through disingenuous means such as deliberately unintuitive attack animations that have literally zero diegetic hooks in the game world

>>719249436
>but that's mostly because of level design and enemy placement rather than it actually being hard.
HAHAHAHHA
>noo bro this game being hard doesn't count because it's not the miyazaki's cultist "stamp of approval" kind of difficulty nooo

>>719249874
>From, and Tanimura especially, are creatively bankrupt so instead of making the games more mechanically complex amd engaging, they just add delay roll catch windups and swiveling with magnet tracking
But Tanimura's solo game is the only one where challenging level and encounter design represents the bulk of the difficulty. it's also the only post DS1 game to not be iframe centric
Need I remind you that the schtick you're describing literally started with Bloodborne, a game Tanimura had nothing to do with?
Are you so blinded by fanboyism that your idiotic mind can't even string a coherent sequence of causality in your head?

>>719258536
>that have literally zero diegetic hooks in the game world
you wanna elaborate?

>>719258726
As someone who is playing through DS2 right now. The enemy spam and placement is actually really fucked. Shrine of Amana is absolutely horrible to go through legitimately no fun at all to be had in that entire area.

>>719246596
>you don't need to dodge
>just roll
anon...

>>719251901
>I'd boot up my DS2 right now to show you that AGL has a direct effect in how fast your character switches from attacking to moving again
I'd love you to do that so that you can feel like a massive retard once you find out that isn't true

>>719258889
if you're complaining about post-patch amana then you're unfortunately just shit at the game

>>719257807
that would require very precise hitboxes

>>719258965
I didn't say I couldn't beat it, I said it's just horrible to playthrough. Specifically that runback to Demon of Song where you have 4 spellcasters lobbing magic missiles at you while being chased by 2 of the archduke fuckheads. Oh and then they have a healer with a stupid amount of range if you don't kill them fast enough.

>>719258229
>I can't believe people are still bitching about having to die repeatedly to memorize arbitrary windups, delays, counters and punishes instead of reacting to the actual attack itself.
Maybe one day you'll understand.

>>719258876
Elden Ring strong enemies often throw out attacks with no actual momentum that would damage you in the way it happens in-game, can end-credits pose in mid-air for no reason and the way they delay their attacks could only count as a feint if they were aware that iframes existed in the world they inhabit, and if they aren't feints then they have literally no reasons to do those as they'd get clipped for exposing themselves in a real duel

>>719258889
If you can't deal with Shrine of Amana, I'm sorry but you're a genuine shitter. You see all the enemies you need to deal with in advance. It can be easily done melee only post-patch (Scholar).
If it's too hard for you, just grab a bow. It's literally that easy
Anon... Please don't tell me you're just trying to rush through the area abusing iframes... Right?

>>719258536
>deliberately unintuitive attack animations
>literally zero diegetic hooks in the game world
Boss wants to beat me and knows feints are a viable strategy to throw off your opponent
am I thinking of this in a wrong way?

>>719259086
>Oh and then they have a healer with a stupid amount of range if you don't kill them fast enough.
Yeah, the CHALLENGE in the CHALLENGE-FOCUSED action game comes from dealing with complex scenario where your opponents may hold an advantage, and you need to find the right solution using your available tools to come out on top
Crazy how that works, huh? Naah, memorizing iframe timings or abusing Ashes of Wars is peak challenging game design

>>719259132
I just love how enemies leave themselves wide open and tank your attacks without flinching but the player crumples like paper at a stiff breeze because FROM forgot why enemy damage was so high in demons souls to begin with.
They kept escalating enemy damage, hp and speed while giving them tricks and the player still dies in 2 hits regardless of how much hp or damage absoroption you stack.
Reducing boss damage would go a long way to making these fights more fun so you don't have to die and retry every single time a boss tries something new.

>>719259082
Oh I agree... But I'm not really start defending Fromsoft's incompetence

>>719259231
Every monster is a flesh and blood human that can break easily and is fighting in a sport, in a ring, under a defined set of rules where such counterintuitive behavior such as feints start to crop up.

These monsters proceed to make feinting their #1 thing they do in every single fight. At the cost of power, at the cost of speed.

Its immersion breaking.

>>719259231
>and knows feints are a viable strategy
lmao
see
>>719259132
the way they delay their attacks could only count as a feint if they were aware that iframes existed in the world they inhabit, and if they aren't feints then they have literally no reasons to do those as they'd get clipped for exposing themselves in a real duel

>>719258847
>But Tanimura's solo game is the only one where challenging level and encounter design represents the bulk of the difficulty.
DaS2 level design is a joke.

>>719259207
I'm trying to get the Sir Alonne katana to LARP my weeb build. I know I could just spend a soul vortex to run a one-shot magic build and clear the area in just a few seconds but I've already done that like 3 times now and I just wanna use my katana build.

>>719259307
There is absolutely nothing challenging about DS2 if you're willing to just occasionally re-spec and one-shot everything in the area with magic.

>>719259452
it factually isn't considering how many people, 11 years later and counting, keep bitching about Iron keep, Tseldora, Brume Tower or Shrine of Amana like this guy here
>>719258889
>>719259086
It's pretty blatantly obvious the DS2 dev team did something right if the content is still challenging all these years later - compare it to any of the other Souls games besides DeS where they're basically "solved"

>>719259465
>if you're willing to just occasionally re-spec and one-shot everything in the area with magic.
That solution is not what I implied at all
A competent build should have a variety of tools to deal with a most situations, including the like the final zone in Amana
Some build have better tools for certain scenarios, but that's unavoidable in the RPG genre

>>719259562
People mostly bitch because it's bad, not because it's some high IQ navigation maze they can't figure out. A straight line with enemy spam isn't clever or fun in terms of navigation.

>>719258942
people get obsessed with memorizing the pattern to dodge every single hit of the combo

my advice is to not do that. sprint in the opposite direction when he's combo womboing, just identify which attack you're safe to roll back into combat range on, get your hits in, and back off again

Elden Ring is a turnbased RPG where the mechanic is the enemies are constantly trying to trick you into thinking it isnt a turnbased game

>>719259682
>some high IQ navigation maze they can't figure out
never did I imply this is the prerequisite for levels top be engaging or challenging. Why did you?

>>719259562
It is a joke in that it'a hilariously inconpetent, not about its difficulty.
This is a series where even 1 on 1 fights are supposed to require precision and timing. Naturally spamming a ton of enemies while having every room full of archers is going to be difficult. It's also not fun, it's just stupid. There's no integrity to that.

>>719237438
FromKEKS in shambles.

>>719259562
"Challenging"
"Annoying"
and "fun" are all different things anon. I wouldn't necessarily call Shrine of Amana "fun" on any level.

>>719259664
Well yea, I could just use the green blossom shield with a UGS and slowly one/two shot every enemy by just face tanking it and occasionally healing but why the hell would I bother doing that when it's not fun or engaging or even intuitive? Beyond a few specific items that you can't even get until you have the King's Ring there's basically nothing in the area that you want to get anyway. Even the Estus Shard you find in there is completely optional and most likely not even going to be used other than to be sold because if you're competent at all, you've already maxxed out your Estus charges by then.

>>719259763
>where even 1 on 1 fights are supposed to require precision and timing
Anon, DS2 is a sequel to DeS and DS1. Did you forget how those games were?
You're aware BB, DS3 and Elden Ring came LATER, right?
Or are you the guy from earlier having issues with cause and effect? >>719249874
Would explain a lot

>>719259883
>I could just use the green blossom shield with a UGS and slowly one/two shot every enemy by just face tanking it and occasionally healing but why the hell would I bother doing that when it's not fun or engaging or even intuitive?
that's up to you anon. You can try to rush to the boss, it's definitely the easiest section of Amana to rush.
But to say it's not "intuitive" is bullshit.

>>719259974
You're actually retarded if you think spending 10+ or even 20+ minutes clearing an area filled with nothing but shitty consumables instead of just rushing through it like a sane person would is good game design or a wise choice. You might as well just re-spec into a mage if you're going to do that and clear the room out 3x faster unless you're doing a challenge run.

these threads are retarded. they basically amount to "i don't like this so it's objectively bad and everybody who likes it/isn't bothered by it is retarded". like man, if you don't like delayed attacks then that's alright but they have never in my life bothered me because i just immediately adapt to the delay in the attack when i see it.

>>719260117
>pending 10+ or even 20+ minutes clearing an area filled with nothing but shitty consumables instead of just rushing through it like a sane person would is good game design or a wise choice
No, you're a retard that's been conditioned into rushing through areas by watching too many DS1 speedruns or by playing DS3 too much
You either clear out an area because you want all the items and souls, or you just need to kill as many enemies as you need to progress - DS2 is the only one where you don't get iframes on environmental interactions, and enemies have longer aggro ranges
It's not about "wasting time", it's about engaging with the level design and the mechanics
If you could just rush to the boss, then what would be the point? Just give me a boss select screen and be done with that.
Calling me "retarded" after spouting such stupid bullshit is truly precious

>>719260326
it's not so much that it's "objectively bad," it just represents gameplay that I personally don't like, which is boring rote memorization that otherwise has no real gameplay depth and as a result i'm not really looking forward to any new games by the company like I used to be
judging by the amount of people who clown on the dumb animations in the game it's a relatively common sentiment but it probably isn't going to be affecting their sales in any way in the long run

>boss delays attack
>simply move away
is that simple bros

>>719259436
>attacks could only count as a feint if they were aware that iframes existed in the world they inhabit
when Radahn watches me roll through a stadium sized meteorite, what does he assume exactly?

>>719259427
Can't argue for what you personally find immersion-breaking
When Margit stops his overhead and switches up his attack it kind of tells me he knows he's dealing with a cheeky fuck who woke up from undeath yesterday and is about to get a reality check
Similarly with the Owl fight in Sekiro, I think it adds to their character

>>719260765
>what is perfect tracking
>what is bosses skipping frames to get closer to you without actually moving their legs in a way that matches

>>719260654
>It's about engaging with the level design and the mechanics
Is that not literally respeccing into a mage is doing? Why do I HAVE to engage with the area as a melee build? You seem to have a strange disconnect on what should be in the realm of options for a player and what shouldn't be.

Also don't make me bring up The Gutter's level design, or the frozen outskirts or the grave of Saints or the Pharos "maze" where the game actively encourages you to run past the Mastadons because they can't follow you through the doorway. I like DS2 myself but you need to get Fromsoft's cock of your mouth with this trite. DS2's level design and engagement is historically bad.

>critically acclaimed by fans and journos
>most popular souls ever
>so popular the name alone managed to carry a fucking fortnight cash in
>fucking redditors get famous by just being good at the game and helping out with bosses
>female streamers beat it with fucking dance pads
>autists are doing no-hit challenge runs
>meanwhile /v/ is still shitting and pissing itself over not being able to deal with attack delay
This will never not be funny. Maybe stick to your bingbing waahoo slop.

>>719260883
>Why do I HAVE to engage with the area as a melee build?
you sound limited. You can do whatever the fuck you want, i don't care. But if as soon as you encounter a difficult area, your first thoughts literally boil down to
A:
>I don't need anything here and it's too bothersome, i'm going to rush
B:
>You know, i could put in the effort to clear it... But it's easier if I respect
You're literally engaging with the game wrong
You could also make a similar argument for any bossfights in any of these games with respec, just replace "rush through the area" with "summon"
I literally don't understand why you even play these games if you have that mindset
I assume you're not being genuine and are just affected by deep anti-DS2 brainrot which probably infected you before you even touched the game (via youtubers and /incel/ - internet celebrities)

>>719259758
>>719258847
>challenging level and encounter design represents the bulk of the difficulty
There is no level or encounter design. It's a straight line with enemy spam.

>>719261168
yeah it is if you base your opinion off youtube videos and reddit memes

>>719260929
>s-stop having standards!
>like what everyone else likes!

Just max out your shield and get a spear.

You guys do know that beats like, every single enemy in existence in 1 2 3 right. Or just full ranged.

>>719261086
>Using the mechanics in the game for their intended purpose is engaging with the game wrong.
?????????????
Are you sure you're just not autistic and can't admit when something is objectively bad? I have never heard a single person earnestly and honestly defend Shrine of Amana's enemy placement. Not once.

>not being genuine and are just affected by deep anti-DS2 brainrot
Okay schizo.

i don't understand the problem with delayed attacks. just dodge? just account for the delay and dodge? try blocking it first if you're not confident? like what's the issue here?

>>719261407
I literally don't get your position. Like, what is wrong with your mind that you aren't willing to engage with a difficult section of a game without respeccing?
What is your argument? What is your thought process?
I'm alienated by the weirdness of your statements
> have never heard a single person earnestly and honestly defend Shrine of Amana's enemy placement. Not once.
Why does it even matter? Do you let your opinions and view of reality get affected by what others think?

>>719261281
>uhh what?
>i-i can't just circles strafe and panic roll anymore?
>does that mean I suck?
>uhh
>N-no it's the game that sucks!

The thing is that the game is the easiest souls game. If you use the mechanics, you break the game. You can break bosses poises in a loop. Jump attacks. Sleep. Rot and stall. Baiting heal animations. Ashes of war that deletes bosses. Bleed. Magic and ranged attacks.

There is a threshold of levels where if you want to play it right battles last for 20 minutes anyways because of low damage and if you overlevel you delete the bosses. There are like 10 different ways of cheesing the game but at that point it isn't fun, you aren't really playing the game.

If you want a true 1vs1 with bosses, the game becomes dogshit. So it is a bad game.

>>719261631
Why wouldn't I respec if I encounter a difficult or annoying section of the game? DS2 spits out like a dozen soul vortexes for you to respec with every playthrough. What you're suggesting is that the intended game design is to slog through a slow ass water-laden area where your movement is slowed, you get gank spammed like 4 separate times all the while you have mages casting missiles at you from literally across the map the whole time with nothing but a shield and sword. Why the hell would I do that when the game willfully gives me a multitude of different options to deal with such a circumstance, up to and including literally just ignoring it altogether?

Also I noticed you didn't even try to justify the Gutter or Frozen Outskirts.

>>719261209
I played it and hated it long before I ever read about hate for it online. I went back and tried it again after playing BB while waiting on DaS3 and it was even worse the second time. Only then did I checn threads here and realized most people hated it the same as me.

It's insane to me how perfectly Sekiro nailed this and how opposite of perfect Elden Ring was at this. Like it was two different studios.
They learned nothing and threw all that away.

>>719261476
>just develop prescience bro what's the big deal?
alright YHWH calm down

>>719259710
>Another retard saying to just run and avoid playing the game for 20 minutes.
The game is broken at it's core. It uses difficulty as a cope for bad programming and incompetence. Shit hitboxes, shit AoEs shit camera, it someone used your advice first try he would get hit anyways because the boss does a 180 spam attack that hits him from very far away.

>>719261942
why do you think i brought up blocking? that doesn't require timing on your part, and you immediately get to learn the timing while taking minimal damage

>>719260326
Objectively true and false and good and bad things exist, I'm sorry you are a relativistic satanic faggot without a soul and an interest in knowing what is truly good and trying to make things better.

If I care is because I see the potential for souls games to become better, instead of just doing cheap tricks to trick retards like you that think senseless difficulty is synonymous of fun.

mandatory

>>719260654
I'm sure you are also the kind of idiot that wastes hours and hours in a game like pokemon or monster hunter changing a number from a 34 to a 35 instead of just using cheat engine after a while and be done with it.

I don't have to deal with the bad design of a shitty game developer. But is annoying reading how you conformists call shit, gold.

>>719261873
>What you're suggesting
I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that you should find a solution to the problem in order to engage with it and solve it, if you want to bother at all. If you want to rush, go for it, but be wary.
If you think respeccing is the only viable strategy to do so without making it impossibly obnoxious, then respect, I don't give a damn
But you're just presenting a hypothetical extreme that isn't actually reflected in the game. The only way that clearing out an area, not even the optional side paths just the main one, would be so tedious to you was if you had an hilariously incompetent build.
Shrine of Amana is not nearly bullshit enough to warrant such a mindset
>UuuuuuuuHHHH SUCH A SLOG
When it really isn't
>Also I noticed
I don't give a shit about defending those areas, what interests me of this conversation is your baffling extremist mentality that is preventing you from enjoying a game

>>719262187
your error is believing you are objectively right and everybody else is objectively wrong. endlessly conceited, and you can't even see it.

>>719260929
>Lots of humans say one thing therefore it is good!
Majority≠truth

>>719262328
lmao no
if I can use cheats to avoid pointless time waste and grinding, I do
But engaging with level design and clearing areas in Souls games is FAR removed from that
the fact that you're equating them speaks volume that the spamroll-bossrush mentality made famous by DS1 speedrunners and DS3 glazers got to you

>>719237180 (OP)
parrying is exactly the same as it was in ds3.

Listen pal, when I'm in a game you better bet I'm gonna use every resource the game provides me to beat it. As long as it's not cheating, cheesing or abusing the game's AI or glitches, every item and spell I get access to legitimately is fair. If the game becomes too easy because of this, well then the game IS easy and if that was not intended, then it's the developer's fault.

>>719261407
He is just rage baiting. Not many people on /v/ want an honest conversation, they just want to shit post and treat everything as a joke, because if they tried to see the truth of things,they have nothing. So they just troll, as if a mask could hide what lays below. An "I don't care I'm edgy I laugh at everything" mask is still a mask.

This is why /v/ is shit

>>719262334
Just a question I want to bring up before we even continue this: If you're not meant to use ranged spells to clear out the area then why the fuck are those mushroom crab things that break your equipment if you're near them are setup so that you literally HAVE to go through them in order to move along the main path?

Also you presume a lot in thinking I don't enjoy DS2 when I've put in like 300 hours with just SOTFS alone. You seem to legitimately think I have an extremist mentality over something that is pretty universally agreed upon. Shrine of Amana is known to be a shitshow and is widely regarded as one of the worst areas in the game. At this point I am assuming you're just baiting me because you don't seem to have a full grasp on what even you can or cannot do in that level nor did you bring up even once the fact that there were enemies that were literally designed to punish melee builds directly after the second (third?) bonfire.

>>719261927
Malenia was supposed to be lady tomoe in the sekiro dlc and all fits together when you see the fight flow in the elden ring sekiro mods.

>>719237290
>>719237438
That's like saying ddr is a memory puzzle. People who played alot of DS1 beat DS2 (and likewise for each game) without dying on most bossfights, so they clearly aren't all memorization puzzles. If you were getting one shot while not being underleveled/geared then you could reasonablly say you can't beat bosses without memorization or getting lucky in fromsoft games

Man it's crazy what kinds of mental gymnastics shitters will do to cope with an obvious skill issue. Asspull arbitrary lines in the sand about how a game should or shouldn't be made, making up fake technical issues, and just straight up lying about how the game works.

>>719262339
Good and bad design exists in game developing. Devs using "difficulty" as an excuse to trick retards like you is a reality.

Elden ring is a broken gane. Because you satanic faggots care more about lies than the truth. You care more about the ego of beating something difficult even if it's bad design, instead of having a good designed game.

You could also get a good and difficult game. But because you have no standards and you eat whatever shit from shits out, they will never make a good souls game again.

The problem is that they have a monopoly on souls game and we still have no need souls games made by competent developers. When we do, the differences will be clear as day.

>>719250710
god this shit looks so fucking goofy

>>719262457
>Waiter puts a disgusting piece of turn in your plate
>-You-...- you are supposed to eat it!
No

>>719237180 (OP)
Yeah Fromsoft bosses are plagued with unnatural fake-out motions that exists just to make you roll at the wrong timing, they all move like geriatrics
It's impossible to figure out the first time you fight (unless you already expect Fromsoft bosses to move like a retard), but also impossible to fuck up once you learned the trick
good illusion to make the game look like it's a challenge, no wonder why midwits think this game is hardcore even though every one of them has casually beat the game

>>719250710
This looks so bad. AI Limit bosses actually react to the player

>>719251758
Are you saying that the game should treat weapons as spikes? Dealing damage when they character doesn't even swing? that would completely change the game. This isn't playtesting you are asking for a different game.

>>719262503
>Shit hitboxes
>Delay animation in parrying
>Delay enemy animations
>Unparreable attacks and parryable attacks are not clear
>In a game where you can't risk getting hit because all attacks one shot you
>Some enemies have to be parried twice and the CRIT damage is negible
Parrying in elden ring is as miserable as ever. Better play sekiro or cut my dick off, it would be a better experience rather than trying to engage with this mechanic in this piece of shit game.

>>719262708
>If you're not meant to use ranged spells to clear out the area
you're not. You can use ranged options (note - you don't need to respect to use a bow as a melee build!) and they definitely make your life easier
But they do not make it SO MUCH easier that it's a tedious slog in comparison to do the area as a melee build
I don't think you even tried

>>719262732
>That's like saying ddr is a memory puzzle
there is obviously a dexterity element to rhythm games but a huge portion of high level ddr or any rhythm game is practicing difficult sections of a track. you're naturally going to completely memorize the track because that is the actual way you master tracks and get full clears. it's just how the games work and no one complains that rhythm games require memorization because it's the core of good rhythm gameplay.
memorizing goofy animations in action games by contrast takes you OUT of the gameplay because you have to tell yourself not to react naturally to an animation. this can be perfectly fair when used in moderation to make some tricky attacks and keep the player on their toes but when it's overused it's extremely stale because you have to sit there like a retard memorizing a large portion of boss animations just to make sure you roll at the right time for all of them or instantly die and restart the fight

>>719262959
Still stuck in the mindset that your truth is the one truth. Cannot at all fathom that this "bad design" doesn't even register to others as bad design because they overcome it like everything else.

>>719262548
Then elden ring is easy. Bleed, frost summons and skills and overleveling makes you delete bosses.

>>719263090
>It's impossible to figure out the first time you fight
This is what makes it such a weird game design choice to give the player zero options for increasing their health pool, boosting their defenses, or healing HP. The game really needs some sort of defensive tool that you can hold up in front of your face and block attacks, so you can learn boss patterns without being in danger.

>>719263345
You didn't play elden ring. You might as well claim gta is easy cause it lets you input cheats

>>719263258
Well good luck getting rid of those red mushroom crabs with your melee build bro. Hope you enjoy breaking all your armor and rings. I'm going to just rush and magic missile the area like a normal, sane person will and move on with the game.

>>719262732
The delaying and baiting animations thing started with dark souls 3.
Dark souls 2 is still a very slow game and the knowledge of hitboxes being absolutely dogshit is inherited from dark souls 1.

The combat is slow paced so you can more safely wait for openings and strafe unlike elden ring.

>>719263474
>Hope you enjoy breaking all your armor and rings.
you can just... take them off?

>>719262840
Explain to me, without previous knowledge, how are you supposed to predict the Looney toons floating and delaying animations and not getting hit without running 20 minutes around like a retard which isn't fun.

How are you supposed to predict hitboxes that don't fit the models and follow attacks that don't follow the rules of animation.

>>719263439
>Use shield
>Get posture broken
>Get hit

>>719262840
I like when idiots pretend everything is arbotrary and subjective and that bad mechanics and design choices can't exist.

>>719237180 (OP)
Elden ring has bigger problems than this

>>719263498
You are simply trolling. You don't believe what you just said. Plenty of bosses in ds1 and ds2 had delayed attacks and would fake like they were attacking where you were and quickly attack the spot you are running towards.
Hell the first 2 dark souls 1 bosses have complete memorization gimmicks attacks. The asylum demon jumps up and destroys the ledge you are standing on, the tarus jumps up to the tower you are standing on.

>>719263817
>Plenty of bosses in ds1 and ds2 had delayed attacks and would fake like they were attacking where you were and quickly attack the spot you are running towards.
you're literally making that up
you're conflating standard animation attack telegraphs for the delayed attack meme which started in BB specifically to counter easily spammable iframes

>>719263551
>press menu, open inventory, unequip all your armor and rings, run up to the crabs and fight each one individually while also avoiding their miasma so you don't break your sword. Once your finished you have to open the equipment menu again and go through and manually equip every piece of armor and ring again after navigating the most likely bloated inventory you have. (Since DS2 doesn't remember what armor you were wearing before and doesn't bother highlighting that when you open the equip menu.)
OR
>I press R1 once and watch the big swirly blue thing one-shot all of them.

You genuinely sound retarded. Like actually mentally disabled bro.

>>719263621
Level your vigor, upgrade your flask, and use a spirit summon to take some of the heat off. It's unreasonable to expect to no-hit a boss on your first try, and it's also completely unnecessary. You can take a lot of hits and still win.

>>719263327
Overcoming something doesn't' make it good. Beating a difficult game doesn't make it good. Dividing people into an "us vs them" mentality because you beat something with difficult arbitrary rules and getting a "I'm good" name plate doesn't make bad design, good. You are just and insecure fag that doesn't have anything in his life other than souls game so you have to value the worth of people in what you do, because is the only coin you can use, so if they don't beat the game (with the rules you choose) they don't deserve respect, in the same way women view everything through the lens of sexuality or rich faggots see everything through the lens of money (because you didn't beat the game lvl 1 no weapons no rolls so you didn't technically beat the game so you aren't good)

>>719237180 (OP)
Just facetank lol

>>719263464
I did and the difference between using mimic and not using summons is like night and day. It puts you in two different games. using the mechanics fromsoft wants you to use makes this game a joke. The AI completely breaks.

>>719263973
if you have the spell on you and can use it go ahead
but your entire argument so far has literally been that respeccing so you can use such spell is preferable in all instances than just figuring out a solution with your current build
That's how you worded things. Maybe that's not what you meant to convey, but if that was indeed your point - then this last post of yours automatically flags you as a baiter that wanted to waste my time. You can't be serious

>>719264078
Notice how I never called your opinion objectively wrong. Or said any of this shit you're spouting, for that matter. Just find it kind of funny you're calling me the insecure one, when you obviously have a chip on your shoulder.

>>719264183
They don't want you to use those mechanics, those are for game journalists

>>719264025
So what I say, the solution is cheese, which completely ignores the game's base mechanics and breaks the AI which makes elden ring a shitty designed game.

The solution of playing a shitty game is not to play, by using cheese.

And you have to level up A LOT to get to the point where attacks don't oneshot you. Its a numbers game and completely retarded. There is clearly a power creep in the souls saga fromsoft is not addressing.

>>719263796
Like what

>>719264282
If you don't use those mechanics, you have to deal with broken hitboxes, animations and spam, which makes elden ring an objectively bad game.

>>719264427
fashion souls is mid

>>719237180 (OP)
It's only possible to struggle with any FromSoft or Souls-like if you legit have Autism. Every attack is incredibly telegraphed to a normal brain, even the baited ones. If you struggle at reading body language, you'll think it came out of nowhere. Lmao

>>719264565
What does that have to do with anything?
Wrong thread mate.

>>719237180 (OP)
As an added note, most people that play those games pvp like a fucking bot too.

>>719264530
If you don't like the game don't play it. You didn't play it.

>>719237180 (OP)
>>719237438
Fromdrones will never recover from this and the "Zamzibart, pls forgive me" KEK

>>719264363
I assume you're getting hung up on the spirit ash bit. At least I hope you don't call leveling vigor cheese. Spirit ashes are clearly an intended part of playing the game, but we'll set that aside. We'll live in this fantasy world you've constructed where a mechanic the developers put a lot of work in to and encourage you to use constantly is "cheese".
You can still take a lot of hits and win. If you're getting one shot by anything, then you're playing a glasscannon build. A glasscannon build should be hard to get away with, otherwise there would be no point in any other type of build. You get fourteen sips on your flask by the time it's fully upgraded, that's at least fourteen opportunities to miss dodging an attack and still keep fighting. If that's not enough, then sorry, it's just a skill issue.

>>719262732
if ddr was designed like elden ring bosses then the arrows would stop right before hitting the receptor for a second and then scroll upwards instantly

>>719264886
Misbegotten you can just expect to flail around wildly. All it takes is literally 5 seconds of backing up, maybe with a shield raised to get a good idea of how something behaves. But no. Autists' power fantasies dictate that they must face tank the world without thinking, so they fail at having such a tiny pinch of patience. You can always tell a good Souls game player from a bad one on who is being somewhat passive and who is going full retard Leroy Jenkins mode.

>>719265241
>and who is going full retard Leroy Jenkins mode.
Spamming Lion's Claw with defense buffs and heavy weapons is literally the EZmode for most bosses in this game except Malenia

Lmao /v/ is so shit at video games nowadays, no wonder this place sucks, fags are barely sapient in this board.

>>719265306
Doesn't work on other human beings. Please do keep spamming ashes of war in pvp though, y'all make great content to line pockets

>>719264886
>they use some of the highest damage scaling weapons in the game with hidden unique modifiers
elaborate this zanzibart

>>719263236
buy an ad

>>719237180 (OP)
Imagine you're one of those bosses and you're tasked with killing this annoying guy who keeps coming back. Would you do predictable, straightforward attacks that he can counter every single time, or do feints and change up their rhythm every so often to throw him off?

>>719265556
PvP is irrelevant when discussing the game design and balance of these games - miyazaki doesn't give a shit

>>719265089
DDR does that all the time, they are called bpm gimmicks and stops and they do require memorization, and people play other games because of them. But if you actually played DDR you would realize the difference between both immediately and wouldn't say elden ring requires memorization because it doesn't.
charts designed to be played on notitg are require way more memorization than any fromsoft boss unless you are using fists and underleveling on the most difficult bosses.

>>719257316
You know how to guard counter which already puts you in the top 15% of Elden Ring players.

Average shitter ITT:
>shields? nah, I'm good at souls games, I don't need that noob shit
>I don't want to level vigor, I could use those points to make my sword do another 3 damage
>spirit ashes? wow they really did make this game for casuals and game journos. I don't need that, I'm good at these games
>lemme just sprint past all of these little enemies, the boss will give me enough runes to level
>why would I need these stupid defensive talismans? I just want the ones that give me more damage
>walks in to boss room
>gets one-shot
>WOW WHAT THE FUCK ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY THIS GAME IS BULLSHIT MEMORIZATION DDR

>>719237438
KEEEEEK

>>719259334
>the player crumples like paper at a stiff breeze
Maybe if you run around naked without a hyperarmor weapon.

>>719263439
if they let you do that the game wouldn't be "hardcore" then
I mean give you the illusion of it being hardcore, because nothing really changes aside from not giving you stupid deaths

>>719266485
>Average shitter
But that's literally every fromdrone who keeps saying "You didn't beat the game" or "Git gud" every time you use a mechanic of the game that devs intended to be there. When you have a fanbase so retarded and autistic to this point, ofc you are going to find people saying stuff like "artificial difficulty"

>>719237180 (OP)
The demon souls formula has 2 problems
1. is that the games are marketed heavily based on their difficulty
2. every game from demon souls to elden ring is almost identical
this means that if your audience has spent hundreds of ours with the same combat they're going to get better at it, which is bad because the game sells based on it's le heckin crazy difficulty, so with every new release you have to make them more difficult than the last. this leads to bullshit game design like pic related in OP

>>719266750
you didnt beat the game

>>719263464
the game won't let you input cheats unless you look it up how though, there's no way to figure the cheats out by yourself

>>719237438
truth nuke, fromsoftards seething

>>719266485
>>719266750
>>719267019
>shields? You didn't beat the game
>leveling up vigor? You didn't beat the game
>spirit ashes? You didn't beat the game
>not running straight to the boss? You dind't beat the game
>defensive talismans? LMAO you dind't beat the game
Git gud and memorize every time you have to rollslop

>>719266750
>>719267196
>letting the opinion of random retards on the internet affect your experience with a game
ngmi

>>719266750
Those are not the opinions of fans.

>>719266020
I stand corrected. Elden ring is designed like DDR.

>>719258068
really not
DS3 rollslop bosses (with some exceptions like friede) are just outright braindead. In ER you wanna put in a little more effort or else you struggle with traps, combos you cant roll out fast enough, and just poor damage

>>719266957
>games in the same genre are similar
>this is supposed to be bad

for me it's facetanking & stunlocking with one button press

>>719266957
>2. every game from demon souls to elden ring is almost identical
This is the root of the problem, the core gameplay hasn't changed from Demon Souls so the only way to make the game more difficult is to complicate and extend boss attack patterns. We've gone from enemies having a 3-4 combo at most to 10-12.

>>719267428
I don't, but that's how most people feel when they start going for their Ego, Khazan had a similar case with the whole easy mode fiasco
>>719267721
There is a lot of them who act this way, just see anyone beating the game with a Spirit Ash or a shield and they will be flooding the thread

>>719237438
>>719237180 (OP)
After playing other games of this type, I actually appreciate Fromsoft's animations way more.

>>719237180 (OP)
Elden ring is shit.
Got fed up halfway and resorted to cheesing every single entity with the old barricade shield before they nerfed it to the ground. Finished this trash heap and have no desire to ever replay it, can't believe I paid full fucking price for this trash.

>>719237438
Can we also make it so that it's in a tight corridor where his attacks clip through the walls while yours don't?

>>719267428
Honestly the only part I have a problem with specifically is the spirit ashes and mimic tear bullshit. It's so sloppily designed. I think summons are a cool idea in theory, but terribly implemented.

I think people actually get more upset when you DON'T want to use the Mimic Tear. I just don't fucking want to use it. It's not fun to me.

>>719267827
Modern DDR old DDR didn't do this shit, and if they did it was done tastefully and sovlfvlly.

>>719266485
>WOW WHAT THE FUCK ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY THIS GAME IS BULLSHIT MEMORIZATION DDR

Those are the things Mimic Tear fags are always saying though.

>>719240661
Anon's will just shitpost tl;dr to you but everything you wrote here is 100% true and cannot be refuted

>>719268479
>magic
You didn't beat the game

>>719267950
>can swing 13 times in a row two handed
wtf is this stamina?

>>719268573
>You didn't beat the game

See the thing is, they "you didn't beat the game" meme was actually started by insecure spirit ash fags getting upset at others calling them out.

Many people forget this.

>>719239308
The issue was always that rolling is too effective, not that the boss is too weak.

>>719268583
Those are from Wildstrikes AoW, not actual 2H attacks

>>719268657
Bullshit, the "you didn't beat the game" thing started with using magic and pyromancers in fucking Dark Souls 1 and the whole Strength fags vs Dex Fags