Thread 720464581

He deserves it.

>>720464581 (OP)
In the blatant non-canon ending, maybe.

>>720464674
>Only doing what the real Verso would do, and save his sister again
>Deserves damnation

Is Alicia the most hateable "protagonist" ever?

I know you just want /v/ to talk about Expedition 33 and that's fine, but are we really gonna constantly keep doing the "Verso was right in trying to kill everyone" bait forever?

>>720464843
Isn't she like 16? Makes sense really

>>720464674
>average maellefag family dynamics

>>720465073
>Only engages in the most literal sense possible
Why are people like this

>>720464982
I just liked le suffering man's game, his constant upset face was kino.

suffer more

>>720464982
He was right in the grand scheme of things. Lumiere is a pretty miserable place to live, so the people’s souls are basically free to go to the afterlife.

>>720464982
>bait
Okay sweetie, get back to your game now, it's a very good way to spend your time and those pesky problems can't bother you while you're playing.

>>720464982
But he was
Renoir had already killed everyone except Lune and Sciel and it's explicitly stated he's going to destroy the canvas regardless of what ending you pick
They all but turn to the camera and say that it was doomed the nanosecond Aline used it as a coping mechanism

>>720464581 (OP)
Finished it yesterday, loved the game. Wish GTA 6 came out this year, the nigger simulator fans would seethe when Expedition 33 won GOTY.
>>720464843
She's too pretty and I love her VA.

>>720465884
GOTY is determined by industry politics, so GTA 6 will win by default no matter what.

>>720464843
She's just a kid, not ready for the power she has in this situation. The game makes it clear that her father and (not)brother are right to put her in her place, just like their hysterical mother.

>>720465819
>Renoir had already killed everyone except Lune and Sciel
Because of Verso's manipulation, as you well know. And he killed Lune and Sciel too but they were brought back, just like Gustave and Pierre are brought back later. Verso is in the wrong the entire way through.

>B-b-b-but you will die eventually
Due to dime dilation, even a single week where Renoir doesn't do anything would be like a year for these people. Not that much time happened in between the shattering and all the characters from the game are born after that happens.

This bait is just so tedious. How many times are you gonna keep repeating obviously wrong things? Here's the (You) and bump, I guess.

>>720466958
>And he killed Lune and Sciel too but they were brought back
Verso: Remember them. Painting isn’t about verisimilitude. It’s about essence. The truth of who they are. Your father made the Axons, right?
Alicia could only bring back people as they were, even with their intact chroma right in front of her, by knowing them deeply. She wasn't close with a lot of people by her own words. Lumiere's going to get a lot of new inhabitants, the old ones are gone forever.
>a year for these people
Oh boy can't wait for another year in my ruined city watching piano every night.

>>720467290
>Oh boy can't wait for another year in my ruined city watching piano every night.
More dishonest headcanon. You're tiresome. Sorry, man, but if this is the only way you can have E33 threads on /v/, then I'd rather they don't exist at all.

>>720466958
>Because of Verso's manipulation
Literally where is this stated? Verso barely even interacts with real Renoir until the end, which is why Renoir explicitly apologizes to him when he's taken his real form. All they share is a similar goal but for different reasons

>B-But the world will last a few years longer!
Maelle is literally going to keep playing dollies with them forever regardless of their feelings. Even if she wasn't, that would mean you're fine in dooming an entire future generation because they're not your hecking comfort characters. You are Maelle

>>720467461
The city is in an identical state of ruin compared to before the Renoir fight, except for the operahouse which is repaired. You can call your eyes liars all you want, Alicia's priorities are clear.

>>720465073
man it was always obvious but it's kind of sad seeing it confirmed with such detail

>>720464674
fp always bp.

Everyone in E33 is a hypocrite doing things for their own sake, only being correct by proxy. The only outlier is Gustave and that's why Verso left him to die multiple times

>>720467523
>Literally where is this stated?
Verso admits he let Gustave get killed so that he could be 100% sure Maelle would be fooled into continuing her mission to accidentally gommage veryone.

>Maelle is literally going to keep playing dollies with them forever regardless of their feelings
You need to come up with hypothetical scenarios to make Maelle's ending sound bad. Meanwhile, in reality, Lune and Sciel are happy when they're alive and disappointed in Verso when he extinguishes them. Gustave and Pierre are happy too when they are brought back. Only Verso is unhappy at the end because he wants to die and he was ready to take everyone else with him. Verso, the guy that even his father made an Axiom of that's "This guy is a manipulative liar"

>>720467573
Yes, yes, anon, I recorded that webm three months ago and now posting it to use your retarded headcanon. You're tiresome. This bait is tiresome.

>>720464581 (OP)
Play the fucking piano, Cuckso!

There's a beautiful meta to Verso fanboys being obnoxious liars that just wear you down with their constant lies over and over again, but unfortunately, these threads are always shit as a result.

>>720467926
Lune is fine too.

>>720468071
>Verso admits he let Gustave get killed so that he could be 100% sure Maelle would be fooled into continuing her mission to accidentally gommage veryone.
Right, so at what point is this manipulating the real Renoir into his goal like you claimed?

>Hypothetical scenarios
Oh you just didn't play the game, nevermind

>>720467926
>>720468202
Yeah really it should "everyone who isn't painted," because they really are all just using the canvas for whatever they need.

Why are Aliciafags such a bunch of kids?
>nooo stop lying
bro welcome to the world of adults

>>720468220
He didn't manipulate real Renoir, he manipulated the party into doing it. He helped them every step of the way and got them there knowing that they were all unknowingly killing themselves and doing the opposite of their intention. And he let Gustave die on purpose to be assured that this would happen.

In the Maelle ending, Lune, Sciel, Pierre, Gustave, Gustave's sister, the apprentice, etc, are all happy campers. You Verso fanboys need to start making up headcanons about how they're mind controlled or how they're thoughtless zombies or how they're perpetually stuck inside a piano concert or other stupid bullshit like that to try to justify Verso's genocide. It's silly. Your lies are silly. And tiresome.

>>720468071
What headcanon? The webm you recorded shows the city still in ruins and the operahouse repaired. What part of that isn't true? Calm down and use your words.

not gonna lie bros, I don't think anyone can fix alicia

>>720468392
>it's ok because I do it too!
So Vercucks are lying shits and they like Verso because he's just as awful as they are.

>>720468071
>Only Verso is unhappy at the end because he wants to die
Then why didn't he let Renoir kill him after the big gommage? You fags did not play the game lmao

>>720468497
Anon, yes, if Maelle is just gonna have these people stuck in concerts and not gonna rebuild anything and the ending is a perfect representation of what the city is gonna look like for the rest of time, you're right.

But that's headcanon you're making up. A willful misrepresentation to try to justify Verso's suicide nuking.

>>720468392
They're stunted due to bad relationships with their own families. See >>720465073

>>720468483
>Renoir had already killed everyone except Lune and Sciel
>Because of Verso's manipulation
Why are you suddenly changing your argument? No-one is arguing that Verso isn't a piece of shit, just that he's correct whether that's be accident or not. Stop going into hysterics man

>>720468597
>Then why didn't he let Renoir kill him after the big gommage?
He was letting Renoir kill him. It was Alicia who stopped his gommage and then pulled him away.

*is the best character in the entire game*
The story was doomed the second they decided to kill him off just to emulate ff7 Aerith's death, just for shock value. Remove Verso entirely and keep the family drama but let Gustave live and the story would be 100x better. We were robbed of a good character that felt human. Verso's interactions with the rest of the party feel weird and forced, he's desperately trying to be cool and mysterious while also lying. Goddamn french people ruining shit on purpose.

>>720468765
I'm not changing my argument, you fucking retard. Renoir killed everyone BECAUSE OF VERSO. What don't you get about this? Verso was the one that told them about the axioms. Verso was an essential part of how they got to the end. If Verso didn't purposefully simultaneously help the party the whole way through while lying to them about what they were gonna achieve, the gommage wouldn't have happened. Good god.

>>720468686
NTA but look at how old verso looks
clearly some time has passed

>>720468553
You know that's funny, in another world, you could redirect that rightful anger against your lying government, burgerkid.

>>720468790
Another Versofag lie exposed. But he's just gonna repeat it again in another thread. It's what he does.

>>720465545
lumiere was literally created by his mother to be a little gay Disneyland for her boy. Versos Statue is all over the place in Lumiere. He would literally be jesus in that world.

>>720468852
>Remove Verso entirely and keep the family drama but let Gustave live and the story would be 100x better.
No it wouldn't. You just want to have your wish-fulfillment fix-fic. The story would not work without Verso at all.

>>720468852
renoir is cooler
gustav would've killed himself if not for luna

>>720468686
>nooooo you're not allowed to interpret things!
All I said was that Alicia's priorities are made very clear by what we are shown. If the ending is directly after the fight, her top priority being Verso's recitals is telling. If, as most people seem to thing, it's actually some time in the future, then things are even worse. In fact, even in the more charitable interpretation where little to no time has passed, things are still damning because she's already getting fucked up. I'm sorry your ending isn't as happy as you wanted it to be.

>>720468979
You would think Verso would be famous in Lumiere and Lune would have recognized him just from the statue

>>720465073
I always knew Aliciafags were kids mostly. They either had big issues with their families growing up, or they never lost someone they cared about.
That's why they like Alicia's ending (denial), justifying it by "muh lumiere's people" (they don't care about them more than the background settings they are) kek. No one in their rightful mind would believe the canvas would survive Alicia's death...

>>720468963
>implying
Keep projecting, Vercuck.

>>720468937
Ok, so why are they all happy when apparently the whole city is in tatters for centuries? Why is Lune and Sciel also apparently mind controlled and happy with this despite the fact they were normal characters in Act 3?

There's some obvious leeway you need to give the devs in terms of assets and artistic rendition. You're not supposed to take this shit literally like an autist.

>>720468790
>He's willing to kill the entire world just so he can die
>But he's not willing to yank his arm back from a teenager so he can finish the task he's 99.9% done with
Deranged reasoning

>>720468967
That is literally what happens. Play the game.

>>720469136
>In fact, even in the more charitable interpretation where little to no time has passed, things are still damning because she's already getting fucked up
That's fine, I don't care about her. I care about the tens of thousands of people she saved and Verso wanted to kill (And DID kill before Maelle brought them back)

>>720468852
>still in a pants-shitting rage every time you think about Verso
yikers

>>720469320
Correct. That is exactly what happens. Killing everyone has left him in an emotionally distraught state where he's questioning everything.
That doesn't change what he did before or after.

>>720469330
No, anon, I'm agreeing with you. You exposed the Versofag's lie. But he's just gonna repeat it elsewhere again. Just like how every single thread starts with "Verso only kills like 2 people, please don't bring up the fact that he's the reason why all the others died in the first place"

>>720469347
painted people aren't people
it's like saying deleting a sims save file is committing genocide

>>720469228
>apparently
There is no "apparently," you can add qualifiers to sow doubt all you like, the ending shows us VERY CLEARLY that the city is ruined and the opera house is not. The extent to which that is damning is dependent on how much time has passed.
>okay but if that thing is bad that would mean other things might also be bad
And your unwillingness to accept that possibility being your starting point is why you're so upset by this conversation.
>actually they just cut a bunch of corners in this ending
Dangerous levels of cope.

>>720468859
No, it was Renoir's plan from the start. It was explicitly said that Renoir made the Axions BECAUSE he needed Chroma that didn't belong to Aline. Again, what is there to back up your argument? You're just schizoposting

>>720469568
So Expedition 33 is a game where two thirds of it is about non-people that don't matter and I shouldn't care about?

>>720468852
>t. Maelle

>>720469689
>No, it was Renoir's plan from the start
And Renoir only ultimately succeeded because of Verso. That's literally what I'm saying and you still don't comprehend it.

>>720468852
He should've been able to breed the depression out of Verso

>>720469347
>unwilling to even fix a house
>unable to bring back Lune and Sciel without knowing them deeply
>totally willing and able to bring back a bunch of strangers
Defeated yourself. You may have the last word, if it's important to you.

>>720469821
Yeah but that's not Verso manipulating Renoir you seething retard, that's Verso going along with Renoir's plan

>>720469678
Why are Lune and Sciel happy? We know they're real people based on how they act on Act 3 and not zombies or puppets or something silly like that. Your headcanon doesn't make sense.

>>720469487
Okay, so magically in that moment he no longer wants to die.

How can two men cause so much seethe from self-insert cucks? How did the french do it?

>>720469723
Do you think they're real people? its up to your interpretation. Do you think Sim characters are real?

>>720469887
I never said Verso manipulated Renoir.
>Renoir had already killed everyone
>Because of Verso's manipulation
You misinterpreted this, but this statement remains correct. Verso manipulated the party into accidentally doing Renoir's bidding. He purposefully let Gustave die so that he'd be sure Maelle would accidentally kill herself.

Renoir killed everyone because of Verso's manipulation. This sentence is correct.

>But, of course, it was really the souvenirs that were driving trade. It was beautiful.
>Every time you finished juicing him, out pops a conscious sentient painting of Verso, not a recording, a true copy of his mind perpetually playing the piano.
>Stuck forever playing the notes in agony.

>>720464581 (OP)
how can maelle be so stupid

>>720470071
If they're not real people, two third of Expedition 33 are "It's just a dream" tier bullshit. You're trying to make the game sound worse than it is to justify Verso's actions. Your dick riding knows no bounds.

>>720470019
Yeah, let's make the guy who's always lying to you, that you meet halfway through the game, your protagonist. yeah that will get people to side with him. Shut up bitch and play piano

>>720469172
Everyone over 34 is dead lol, nobody cares about what happened 40 years ago

>>720470019
Hatred for one's own families causes them to lash out at men who take action to protect theirs. One of them even admitted it >>720465073

>>720464717
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEZsGUqgtHQ

>>720470184
She's just a child, fortunately the game confirms you can fix things by ignoring what she wants, or doom more people by enabling her.

>>720470273
You would think it's only been like three generations since the shattering. WW2 happened 80 years ago, and we still talk about its ramifications and remember the heroes from the war, even when 80% of the people are dead now.

>>720470429
Why are Lune and Sciel happy? We know they're real people based on how they act on Act 3 and not zombies or puppets or something silly like that. Your headcanon doesn't make sense.

>two third of
esl jeet
>"It's just a dream"
uncultured jeet

>>720470231
they arnt real people, they are basically robots, they dont try to understand why they only live on a tiny island, they dont know where food comes from, they can technically leave the island at any time but only do it once a year
the paintress should have wrote a more informative statement in the sky

you should use a different font from the "reddit 33" picture you made if you want to hide that you're a shitposter just trying to stir up shit

>>720470094
Yeah you know what man, that's my bad.
The rest I agree with, but Verso is still correct even if it's accidental. I don't subscribe to "the deaths are okay if they're later down the line" and Maelle's plan of playing house until she dies is only a net negative.
The entire takeaway of the game is that the Dessendres are all pieces of shit that are doing whatever they want, but Verso's ending is the only one with a real net positive

>>720470657
>reddit 33
it's true

>>720470703
>I don't subscribe to "the deaths are okay if they're later down the line"
How the fuck do you live your life, then? If my choice is between dying now and dying 30 years from now (Or even just 5 years from now), I know which one I'm picking.

>>720470517
I'm not sure how you even come away with this when the game basically forces the meta narrative of "people that are way too attached to art/creations/media" constantly

>>720470551
Have you tried playing the game?
>they don't try to understand why they only live on a tiny island
They do understand, their island was torn away from the mainland in a cataclysm.
>they don't know where food comes from
Sciel talks at length about people sailing out to other islands to collect plant samples and the aquafarms where they grow their food are also talked about multiple times.
>they can technically leave the island at any time but only do it once a year
They built a dome over Lumiere that protects them from nevrons. They don't leave because then they'd be vulnerable to attack. Those who do stay far from Lumiere never return. They stay because they know it's dangerous and only send expeditions in a desperate attempt to find out if there's a way to stop shit from being so fucked.

>>720464843
He didn't save his sister. In fact he tells her to go die another canvas.

>>720470926
all this is just hidden away and its not part of the story

>>720470703
>I don't subscribe to "the deaths are okay if they're later down the line"
Same, it'd be one thing if Alicia were both willing and able to fix lumiere, but she's lacking one of those. They show us the city's still fucked in her ending and outside of her handful of friends everyone else is all white like the defective nevrons. Aline and Alicia use the canvas to get high, Renoir callously destroys its people to protect his family, Clea tortures them in her own grief/rage fit, the entire family is fucked. The painted people are tragic victims.

>>720470908
>Let two people die now for a net positive outside the canvas
>Kill everyone in a few years time for a net negative outside the canvas
If you're offering a pragmatic approach, then Verso's is definitely the only correct ending

>>720471089
All of that is discussed multiple times in main story quest dialog.

>>720468115
NO NO NO NO DON'T HOLD ME TO MY WORD AIEEEEEEEE

>>720471123
If I find out our universe is made out of some random woman's suffering, I'm not gonna consider myself a tragic victim and ask for oblivion.

>>720471237
it wont be goty

>>720471271
Okay, I don't think you should and I didn't say the lumierens should do that. Don't be so defensive.

>>720471123
I don't think it'd be fine even then. The moment she dies in the canvas Renoir is effectively going to be killing everyone twice.
The only way for the situation to be resolved by the end is for Maelle to kill painted Verso and learn to use the canvas responsibly, and they make clear that neither is going to happen
Though she's at least sympathetic in that she's a kid that's been given god powers to play make believe

>>720465073
christ

>>720464843
>Only doing what the real Verso would do
The real Verso wouldn't kill expeditioners willy nilly
The real Verso wouldn't let Gustave die
The real Verso wouldn't cheat, lie and manipulate at the slightest inconvenience
The real Verso would've slapped some sense into his mom

>>720464581 (OP)
I'm so glad Maelle's ending is canon since Verso can't possibly overpower a paintress.
You may seethe forever, versocucks

>>720471640
>The moment she dies in the canvas Renoir is effectively going to be killing everyone twice.
I don't think it'll get that far, Aline was a better painter than Renoir and he still fractured the world, and Alicia herself said they can only fight Renoir now because he's exhausted after 67 years of conflict. If he takes a nap and decided Alicia needs to be out, he can go in and overpower her. But it's also possible Aline could intervene again proving the men right once again but unfortunately costing the lives of both women,(unless clea actually helps this time).

>>720471682
>The real Verso would've slapped some sense into his mom
Didn't he do that? My impression of Aline returning was out of spite for Renoir.

im glad the developers made the verso ending the real ending by making maelle such a hopelessly weak character because shes a woman

>>720471880
Isn't it said that he's just going to burn the entire thing from the outside

>>720468852
>Remove Verso entirely
No. It would've been even more kino if the final showdown was Verso vs Gustave instead.

>>720471682
>The real Verso wouldn't kill expeditioners willy nilly
he didn't
>The real Verso wouldn't cheat, lie and manipulate at the slightest inconvenience
his mother dying wasn't a slight inconvenience, also
>cheat
lmao
>The real Verso would've slapped some sense into his mom
The real verso's mom wasn't a godlike entity compared to him. The only point you MAYBE have is Gustave, but Verso killed himself to save Alicia, we don't know whether or not he would've let a stranger die to save a family member. Given that painted verso sacrifices all of lumiere, it's a posibility.

>>720472008
He didn't do that when Aline was in so that must post some risk to the painter inside.

>>720472108
He did kill Julie over a misunderstanding.

>Black and white filter
>Verso on stage in visible anguish
>Horror stinger
>Maelle's face caving in
This is the good ending

>>720472295
>the good ending
these are the statements made by a sane person
you forgot that verso is also crying

>>720469964
He does, but he's no longer sure if the sacrifice was worth it.

>>720472271
>Stabs you
>I'm so sorry I didn't mean to I just thought
>Stabs you
>Oh god please forgive me I'm so sorry
>Stabs you

>>720468852
Gustave’s a nothing character he’s literally just “the protagonist”

>>720472271
Julie and other expeditioners captured and "interrogated" him over a misunderstanding. I think it was fucked up that he killed them, but "willy nilly" makes you look like a fag that wants to make everything he does sound as bad as possible. At that time he even suffered from the same delusion Alicia and the rest of the party succumbed to, that their deaths were a fixable problem.

>>720472501
>he wants to die
>he has the option to die right now
>he's already done terrible things so that he can die
>but he doesn't die because... he's emotional
Fix things with your family anon, I promise you you'll be glad you did.

>>720472910
That is exactly correct. I'm sorry that you're too autistic to understand the emotional depth of a normal person.

>>720472685
JRPG fans love nothing characters, it's why they hate Verso.

>>720466958
The whole crux of the situation is this
>There's a conflict between Aline and Renoir that is destroying the painting
>Verso's options are to try to kick Aline out which will save her but result in everybody getting Gommaged quicker (but non-humans will survive)
>or help Aline which will result in everybody getting Gommaged a bit slower OR just result in the canvas getting entirely destroyed, also Aline will die if she manages to outlast Renoir enough
Renoi WILL win eventually. There's no way around it.
Then Act 3 happens and Maelle tries to make the argument that she can revive everybody and be responsible enough to convince Renoir not to destroy the canvas. Verso is willing to go along with this because he does want to save as many people as possible. However, when it becomes clear that Maelle is JUST AS BAD as Aline and is lying to Renoir he realizes there are two paths ahead
>go along with what Maelle is saying and let her revive everybody just so that Renoir can come and destroy everything again, but this time he won't stop until it's all gone
>just accept that it's over and stop Maelle before everybody can be revived only to get destroyed again
>letting Maelle do her plans poses the same problem of her potentially dying before Renoir gets her out

It's a problem of inevitability. The whole thing is that siding with Aline or Maelle doesn't fix anything. It's, at best, a delay of what is going to have to happen. Because the entire point is that the two of them are rejecting reality and coping with unhealthy escapism. The problem doesn't go away just because they ignore it. If it wasn't obvious that Maelle was acting unhinged when she slashed at the soul fragment of the brother who gave his life to save her (who she needs to be coming to terms with instead of trying to convince herself and Painted Verso that actually he's her brother).

>>720473429
You got a couple of things not quite right
>Verso's options are to try to kick Aline out which will save her but result in everybody getting Gommaged quicker (but non-humans will survive)
Renoir was going to erase the entire canvas, including non-humans, after he won.
>Verso is willing to go along with this because he does want to save as many people as possible.
This is right but saying it will drive verso haters into frothing rage

>>720473656
>Renoir was going to erase the entire canvas, including non-humans, after he won.
Verso didn't know that at the time, though. At least as far as I know. At the start of Act 3 he seems surprised that Renoir shows up to finish the job for good.

>>720471682
>The real Verso wouldn't cheat, lie and manipulate at the slightest inconvenience
"He who guards the truth with lies"

>>720473875
>Verso didn't know that at the time, though. At least as far as I know.
I guess it's not really explicitly stated, but given that he knows what the canvas is and why Aline wants to stay there, I can't imagine he didn't know Renoir would take it out totally. What would be the point of returning it to a pre-aline state? She could just do it all again.

>>720473875
He knows. He wants to die but the final Gommage obviously doesn't get him since he's immortal so he had to have known Renoir would erase all of it.

>>720474051
I figured he just thought the family would fuck off once Aline was gone and leave the world in the post-Gommage apocalypse. He seems convinced by Maelle telling him to come meet Renoir and that things will be fine, and he runs off with her to stop Renoir when he reveals that he's going to wipe out the entire canvas. Again, Verso goes along with Maelle's plan in Act 3 because he seems to agree with her that Aline will stay out of the canvas when it's hidden, and he only changes his mind and opposes her when it becomes clear that she's going to be Aline 2.0 (and thus actually prompt a need to destroy the canvas, even if it's hidden out of Aline's reach).

>>720473875
>Verso: Look at her, ya doofus! Don't you recognize her?
>Monoko: Of course I do.
>Verso: Then you know what this means! This is our only shot!
>Monoko: This is YOUR only shot..

>>720474489
Maelle: It’s not make-believe. It’s not… You’re not… To me. Papa’s here. He’ll help me fix Lumière.
Verso: Will he?
Maelle: Maman painted a rather unflattering portrait of him. He’s much warmer than the Renoir you know.
Verso: I bet.

Verso: Your father was the one erasing everyone. Why would he help repaint everything?
Maelle: I hid the Canvas before I entered, so Maman can’t come back again. There’s no need to erase the Canvas anymore.
Verso: He’ll want you to go home.
Maelle: I’m not at risk like Maman. I haven’t been in this Canvas that long. Besides, Papa has a soft spot for me, he’ll listen.
Verso: Hmm.

A little is lost without hearing how much disbelief for what she's saying the VA put into the lines, but as soon as Alicia wakes up there's some "here we go again" fatigue on Verso's face. I agree with you in the sense that he WANTED to believe her. Renoir had the luxury of fucking off to get some rest before coming back in to spank her, but Verso did not.

>>720475085
Yeah, he knows who Maelle is. In that particular instance he was saying it was their only shot because his plan was
>Oh hey they'll open the door of the manor in Old Lumiere for Maelle and I can get in and kick their asses
because he was still convinced killing the axons to bypass the barrier at the monolith was impossible. Which is why, once the painted manor disappears, he basically gives up until Lune's autism forces him to try. That line doesn't really have anything to do with his understanding that Renoir was going to destroy the entire world.

Verso wants to die but honestly I feel like if Aline is gone he could just... Kill himself? Isn't he only immortal because she's protecting him?

>>720475427
>Isn't he only immortal because she's protecting him?
Maybe? We see her send petals to revive P Renoir, but we also see Verso cut himself in half and he's completely fine.

>>720475427
>Isn't he only immortal because she's protecting him?
No, he's immortal because she made him that way. Once they kick him out, he remains immortal. It's why he doesn't gommage immediately in the inbetween area where the baby verso is maintaining the canvas, like sciel monoco and esquie do. The tragedy of Verso is revealed in Act III - if the family fucks off and Alicia actually brings back Lumiere and leaves them alone, he can be his own man instead of existing as a trauma pet for the family of a man he's a copy of. Monoco tries to drive this home with "Verso gave us many new beginnings. He would have wanted a new beginning for you too. You deserve a new beginning, if you want one. Every one of us does." In act III, Verso is fighting for a new beginning for the canvas, but he realizes that that's not Alicia's goal and she's in it for the same reasons as her mom.

>>720464581 (OP)
>Stop crying you fucking faggot, I'm fucking black&white burn victim who can't speak and have no friends and I have hope for the future, fuck you you fucking coward.

In my headcanon ending, Maelle kills Verso after his piano performance since he's such a fucking crybaby downer, and then they live happily ever after.

>>720464581 (OP)
>its the le bad ending because he gets to grow old and die like he wanted and alicia gets to not suffer being a burn victim who cant even talk
Nah, this is the good ending

>>720476441
>I have hope for the future
>*kills herself*
are you okay?

>>720476749
She had hope until her garbage brother tried to kill her and everyone else, that's when she gives up on life. The only one she had left lets her down.

It's Versooo the biggest piece of shit ever.

>>720476972
Your family will forgive you, anon, talk to them.

>>720475427
>Isn't he only immortal because she's protecting him?
Clea says she made the painted family immortal, not that she keeps reviving them.

>>720465884
>I love her VA
Shes so one note. Her voice is literally the same exact voice as shadowheart. She has zero range

>>720476972
She's exactly where her father died at the end of act 2 :(

Verso charms himself into the party so he can trick them into killing themselves and everyone they love, truly the hero of the story.

>>720477345
That'd be like criticizing a film actor for having the same face in two movies. Shadowheart and maelle are both normal humanoids, why would they have unusual voices? Maelle's voice is higher pitched and sounds younger. She was cast because she can deliver lines well, with good emotion and understanding of the character. Characters don't all need to have totally different voices.

>>720477638
It worked out :)

>>720478046
For the worst people in the game, the mother who abandons her family and ignores her deformed daughter, the genocidal father and the psycho sister. Maelle is alone with these people, back to her meek depressed self.

>>720478172
kek it's you again >>720465073

>>720478046
I wonder what's going to go through their heads when Alicia jumps out the window.

>>720479167
get the paternity test anon

>>720468852
feels more like legend of dragoon killing off slambert who was a much cooler character than aerith honestly

I think if Gustave lived he might have actually sided with verso since all he cared about was maelle and when gustave finds out that maelle is dying from being in the painting like the paintress he might actually choose to sacrifice himself for it. he already almost killed himself earlier in the game just because maelle died effectively deciding the expedition wasnt worth it anymore

>>720468852
Gustave is what Renoir and PVerso wish they were, a decent man. He still needs to die to tell the tragic story, but it is rough being forced to play as Verso in the camp, you feel dirty.

My friend gifted me the game on B Day recently and I'm playing it rn. Pretty fun, parry window seems a bit too rough.Just met the merchant and got from the mansion. Aesthetics are carrying this hard, pretty fun stuff, didn't expect a jump mechanic too.
My prediction pic rel girl dies from decapitation, because red scarf and it's France lol

>>720481892
Stop enjoying things. Now.

>>720481892
threads are constant spoilers, campaign isn't that long. I recommend coming back after you beat it

>>720481892
The parry times are tight, I recommend dodging until you learn the moves before you try parrying everything, unless you're the kind of guy who just enjoys beating your ahead against bosses until you win.

>lies exclusively to women
>lets the non-gay Frenchman, who could have figured him out, die a horrible death at the hands of his father, even though he could have stopped it
>knows his little sister is an emotionally unstable kid that will be consumed by escapism, if he lets her
>saves his family, provides them with the opportunity to move on, winning himself his own rest in the CANON AND OBJECTIVELY GOOD ending
>recognizes how Lune or Sciel will judge him and feels sad for them, but knows right from wrong, and that he isn't wrong to want to see end it all
>his bros are fully understanding and on his side, even though they stand to lose way more than Lune or Sciel (they would rather let Verso rest than live in an eternal dystopia, ruled by a mentally ill teenage deity)
>has gameplay mechanics from DMC (he's cool like Dante)

You DID pick the right ending, didn't you?

>>720483863
If esquie supports him he's good enough for me.

>Silksong drops
>CONSTANT barrage of E33 threads after a dead period of two months
Did Broche get more China gibs to hire jeet shills?
Are they afraid of losing GOTY?

>>720484397
Esquie would support Verso no matter what he does.

>>720484931
honestly probably a lot of people who rushed to beat e33 before silksong released

>>720484497
>Call me Maelle, my flesh brother whom I grew up with.

>>720464581 (OP)
Verso is so fucking retarded holy shit

the worst betrayal of this game is how everyone said that it was all french people who made it and in the credits its all korean

>>720484931
Sorry about your company's new direction, tendie

>>720486314
May I see them?

>>720464581 (OP)
>you don't love this game enough

>>720466213
She is not a kid. She is old enough to have sex with a 40-year-old man.

>post a picture of a man from e33
>women and children immediately begin fuming
what about this game did they take so personally?

>>720468191
Huh? But Verso is escaping the lie.

>>720485089
I doubt that.

>>720469172
No one knows anything from before Real Verso died. They're not real people.

>>720486314
Who is this "everyone"?
The amount of disinfo about this game on /v/ is staggering. Yes, the core team is french (with some belgians). The lead dev said himself that he was scouring the internet for animators and the only ones he liked were Korean dudes posting their demo reels on youtube, so he contacted them and they invited their other animator friends. The animation team is korean not because muh cheap outsource, it's literally because no one in the west does the flippy anime elden ring bullshit attack animations that the game director wanted

>>720470463
They aren't real because they don't have souls. They could never paint.

>>720488532
>reddit 33 lied about being all french
it's over

>>720472392
It isn't the good ending, but it may be the canon ending, because it ends with the title screen music.

>>720477865
I agree, but that's a shit comparison.
It's more like criticising an actor for looking and/or acting the same in every movie, whether by being typecast or having bad range. Actors like Keanu Reeves are an example of actors that do this a lot. Not really criticising it personally, like you said, if it fits the role and is entertaining who gives a fuck,
I don't even know what the fuck you were trying to say with "they're both humanoid" or assuming that because the other anon was saying that she is one-not he wanted her to sound "unusual".

>>720476972
>live in unstable arrangement
>it crumbles apart
wow

>>720478172
It's interesting, you can nail that someone is trans and/or childless based on their support for Maelle.

No parent would think of their child as "deformed."

>>720488532
>no one in the west does the flippy anime elden ring bullshit attack animations that the game director wanted
This explains so much. I was wondering the whole time how they nailed that anime look. The animators were biologically geared for it.

>>720489156
Her mother does, she says she struggles to even look at her. And she sees herself that way.

>>720489156
They're parentless, actually: >>720465073

>>720489452
That is about the reminder. The story is about dwelling in grief.

>>720490450
The story is about survival for a bunch of people being mass murdered by an evil god.

>>720490537
They aren't people and he isn't God.

>>720488052
it would be funny if a thread was started with no text whatsoever and just Verso's face

>>720464581 (OP)
Well yeah that's what happens to evil bastards who attempt genocide. He's lucky Maelle still loves him despite it.

>>720491885
which image would do the most damage? >>720469320
or
>>720468497

I don't remember, when painters enter the canva do their bodies stay in the real world? I can "play" with Alicia's body while she's in?

>>720494473
yes, yes

>>720476441
why is she grey again? just another special fuck you from aline?

>>720495156
Yeah I think so. She was terrible towards Alicia. It's strange to see PAlicia hugging her in the mansion though.

pAlicia deserves more blame for everything ever desu

>>720495284
>>720495156
Aline the psychopath painted her like an abused dog. She made her complete with "I love my mom" thoughts despite creating her just to suffer.

>>720495156
There's no in-game explanation. It might be worth noting that the nevron NPCs are white/grey because they are "unfinished" works of Clea so Alicia may be an unfinished work of Aline

>>720465073
maeele fags have daddy issues
poetry

pRenoir is garbage

Still not playing your game btw.

>>720499223
I will continue to post sporadically

>>720464843
his sister wanted to die because of him, anon

>>720500354
Verso sacrifices all his friends, all his family, to save the mother who mistreated him and his sister, the mother who doesn't even want to be saved, his sister, his friends, who are fighting for their survival and friendship? Fuck those guys, because Verso thinks Maelle should live in her broken body outside the canvas, what she thinks doesn't matter, also he just wants to die.

Truly the reasoning of a selfish retard.

>>720500841
>mother cheats on your father, breaks your family
>you blame him for leaving
>video game mother breaks her family, chooses suicide
>you blame video game father for not respecting her choice
pottery

So I know
>Streamers
but Dr Mick is kinda fun.
He's a therapist and he psycho analyzes every character interaction to the utmost autismo.
He's mid way through act 2 and hasn't gotten to all the true mindfuckery.
The actual gameplay content isn't really worth watching.
Also, he no way fag'd Sciel.

>>720501393
>Also, he no way fag'd Sciel.
based sideways pussy appreciator

Is Lune a girlboss?

>>720501716
>pumped, dumped, and killed
nah

>>720496182
Fuck off, Aline

>>720471682
The real Verso would delete the canvas once he figured out it was a problem.

>>720474373
Renoir can just gommage him personally. If all he wanted was to die it was as easy as asking Renoir. Maelle could kill paintress immortals and does it twice. Hell, Clea kills herself somehow.

>>720503947
no you don't understand, he couldn't possibly just stay there and let renoir fulfill his sole motivation of dying, because a teenager pulled his arm

>>720504095
Yeah, Gerso is obviously incapable of just taking Esquie while everyone else sleeps.

>every single scene reinforces Verso loved his family and sacrificed himself and his world for them
>looney tunes deranged people somehow see Verso as the devil because... well just because, ok
I genuinely don't understand those types of people.

>>720504176
>Gerso

I just imagined a world of gorillions of people and other creatures, and then promptly forgot it.
How do you like them apples, maellefags?

>>720504314
Maelle's ending is a midwit trap for escapists

>>720504334
Alicia would piss and cum and die.

>>720504314
aliciafriends hate the men in their lives because >>720465073

>>720504365
You're a monster. What if one of those painted people wanted to die?

>>720504852
>clearly, there were no alternatives
I mean Maelle’s ending does, in fact, prove there were no alternatives. Either she dies in the canvas or Verso ends it.

>>720504852
You faggots didn't even play the game did you? Why is this reposted when its clearly just flat out wrong?

>>720504852
>I've had 100 years to accept these fake memories of a man I never was
See that's the thing; he's still Verso, and he's still doing what Verso would have done.

>>720505039
Despite verso being the dishonest character, maellefags ironically feel the need to lie about him.

>>720504852
All the seething Vercuck replies

Beat the game yesterday, 10/10. Of course fags on here would agree with Maelle and choose escapism that would kill their entire real family. Selfish and nigger like just like /v/. Renior was right, as a father i would've done the same thing. Everyone in the Verso ending will be able to live their lives and let time heal their grief.

>>720505815
>Everyone in the Verso ending will be able to live their lives and let time heal their grief.
Not the people I care about.

>>720505815
You're gonna trigger a melty from the maellefag whose "father" abandoned him

>>720505916
kek I was too late.

>>720505916
They don’t get to live in either ending, just bend to the whims of a 16 year old god. She wholesale fabricated a new Verso and Pierre for fucks sake.

>>720506026
New Gustave and Pierre, rather. Sophie at least gommaged so her chroma was pure.

>>720468852
>just to emulate ff7 Aerith's death
It was much better than her death.

>>720505916

Those people aren't real anon.

>>720506318
>anons say a young woman with a body like this is going to have trouble finding love because of a charboriled face
You all love Honoka, and she has body damage.

>>720506463
she also doesn't talk which is pretty much the dream women

>>720506318
Needs a bigger bulge

>>720506101
Gustave's chroma was still in his corpse and he wasn't dead for very long so it was pure enough.

>>720506642
Gustave’s chroma wasn’t still in his corpse, he didn’t die to a Bevron, he died to Renoir. Only Nevrons do the whole chroma-denial thing because of Clea.

>>720506372
Neither are the Dessendres. They're video game characters.

>>720506727

Shockedpikachu.avi

>>720506372
most people here would pay 60$ for a video game than donating to charity.

>>720488052
Renoir is so fucking cool, bros

>>720507497
>when your teenaged daughter says something so suicidal you have to hit her with the chroma stare

>>720506318
so maelle is like 11 and she gets skin tight fuckwear and the trannies at nexusmods remove starfieldchan from the game because they call her a minor

>>720505790
>Verso would rather kill himself than wake up to this
Only reason why he is wrong

>>720506372
if i watch 1000 episodes of One Piece and then some new characters show up for 20 episodes and declare themselves to be "real", then 99.9% I am still going to side with the main crew. And that remaining 0.1% is decided by exceptional charisma, not because plot decides them to be more real.

>>720507621
>nexusmods
wut? that's not a mod

>>720507990
>if i watch 1000 episodes of One Piece
>maellefags watch wan piss
kek

lost to skong lol

I would simply paint a canvas where all the females are hundreds of feet tall

>>720509710
but i beat sprong, it gave me the cheater pictos

>>720488052
Both renoirs have literally opposite goals for the same selfish shortsighted purpose, he belongs in great tier
Verso is unironically retarded and is controlled by his nature to the point where it's difficult to say if he ever made any real decisions on his own, he unironically belongs in mid tier, just with a (not) in front of survive
Also Clea and Alicia should be bumped up a couple tiers each

>>720504852
This is legitimately wrong, it gives Verso too much credit
The point of the final fight is that they both talk a big game about what makes them in the right, but then if they lose they let those masks finally fall off and they both reveal their true personal intentions
When Verso loses, all that stuff about saving Maelle and stopping the cycle of grief and ensuring she can live a life she wants in other canvasses with just a touch more moderation suddenly disappears- that was only the justification, the cope belief
All that remains is his unbearable inbuilt death drive, the suffering and ever-present pall of doom over his existence had become so powerful that he could no longer imagine a life without it, and so throughout the story had been willing to give or take or pretend to believe anything if it just lets him die
His naive wish to save his sister without being able to empathize at all with her actual justified real life suffering(something he does to two different Alicias) was just an incidental bonus character drive that appealed to the memory of the real Verso rather than anything he actually came to on his own, let alone drove his choices

Also related, this makes it super funny that Lune's literal last dialog in the story is to try and convince Renoir to stop by quoting shit Verso said to her about listening to your own internal voice rather than others

>>720507497
Literally one of the best vidya characters of all time. Both versions of him. He just has AURA, as the kids say

>>720514750
Canon big dick too

>>720509842
And then you'll do... what?

>>720518868
Chop off their giant feet and transform into them obviously

>>720464581 (OP)
what's the point of this spam?

CONTINUER À T'AIMER
CONTINUER DE PEINDRE

>>720513379
fitlered

>>720468852
Gustave invented tech that let painted creatures sucessfully fight and defeat Painters.
Keep him alive, give him context of how his world works and he'll Deus Ex Machina some new tech that transports Lumiere into Paris.

>>720514350
>be a copy of someone who committed suicide to stop his sister from dying
>be utterly defeated, now will be forced to watch that sister die
>beg first for her to stop the painting, for her own good, and when you have nothing else left, beg at least not to be made to watch her die
Unironically you understood Verso the wrong way.

>>720520189
He'd also sacrifice all of Lumiere and himself to save Maelle

>>720520189
>Keep him alive
"No!"

>>720506463
It's early 20th century anon, every adult woman on the planet had a body like this.
A man being 220lbs was considered so comically obese that he was in a circus. as an attraction.

>>720520262
Forcing Maelle out of Verso's canvas does not save her she will just kill herself in a different canvas.
Verso himself literally brings this up.

>>720464674
Fippy bippy

>>720520097
All you can do is project

I still stand by the end of act 2 / start of act 3 dropped the ball hard.

They could've done more.

At least make alicia/clea side stories intergrated to the main story

So gay.

>>720520219
He wanted to die the entire time, anon
It drove every decision he made, which is why his first and only resort at every turn was to manipulate everyone into destroying the canvas

Are there other places for mods? I'm late to the party, and apparently Nexus nuked a fair bit of mods or something.

bros…I just figured it out, the reason why Sciel and Lune don’t do jack shit in the third act is because Alicia painted them that way

>>720464581 (OP)
>Majority of female playthroughs I watched, they chose Maelle (selfish) ending
>Majority of male playthroughs I watched, they chose the Verso (selfless) ending
Really gets the noggin joggin on that one

>>720520556
It saves her because she doesn't have the psychotic attachments that make her desire to kill herself in this one. The new canvas isn't going to be "Home", this old one is. Verso won't be there, neither will the Lumierians.

>>720523148
And she made them fuck her brother so he would stop wanting to kys himself

>>720521104
And if it was his prime motivator, suicide was trivially easy the whole fucking time.

>>720521104
>He wanted to die the entire time, anon

>Renoir: Hold still while I gommage you
>Verso: Nah I'm good

I highly recommend playing the game, it's good

>>720468483
That wasn't Gustave's apprentice, that was Verso's son

Maelle-sama?!! You've come back to the painting?!! After I tried for ONE-HUNDRED YEARS to try and save our mother from KILLING HERSELF in a FICTITIOUS REALITY that she TRAPPED herself in because she couldn't HANDLE the fact I BURNED TO DEATH saving your life?!? Huh?!? You've decided to keep this TROLLEY going FULL STEAM AHEAD?!? And you will NEVER let everyone in Lumiere find the PEACE OF DEATH despite being born in a DEMIURGICALLY DOOMED WORLD that the STRUGGLE for caused human SUFFERING unrivaled by even the FORGES OF HELL?!?! Instead of MERCIFULLY letting this ABOMINATION die, where a bunch of power-tripping RETARDS played GOD with human lives over PETTY FAMILY DRAMA, you're going to TRAP and BETRAY the last VESTIGE of YOUR BROTHER's SOUL to save a CANVAS that is POWERED PURELY through DEMIURGICAL TORTURE?!?! The same BROTHER who SACRIFICED HIS LIFE saving you from an AGONIZING DEATH out of his LOVE for you?!?! WHAT?!?! And to add INSULT to INJURY you're going to make me watch Painted Alicia, Clea and Renoir DIE HORRIBLY, and despite FORCING ME AGAINST MY WILL to ENDURE in this world for your own EMOTIONAL BENEFIT, you're not EVEN going to BRING them BACK in the END?!?! You will NEVER let me find CLOSURE with THEM??! You want THREE brothers and my personal happiness would GET IN THE WAY OF THAT?!?! And to make things worse for me you're not even going to bring Julie BACK FOR ME?!? The same Julie whom I LOVED and am HAUNTED in my NIGHTMARES for harming?!!? You're going to let her stay DEAD?!?!?! You don't CARE ABOUT or UNDERSTAND my feelings in ANY CAPACITY, despite EVERYTHING I, no WE, have done for YOU?!?! And if you STAY HERE you will DIE thus rendering my SACRIFICE utterly POINTLESS?!?! Well what can I say but YABBA DABBA DOOOOO! WHERE'S THAT PIANO?!!?

>>720468483
>In the Maelle ending, Lune, Sciel, Pierre, Gustave, Gustave's sister, the apprentice, etc, are all happy campers.
Yeah they must be doing a lot of camping since Alicia refuses to fix their houses.

>>720468852
All I wanted to know is why he lost his arm and how he came up with a fully functioning prosthesis.
He also needed a better battle gimmick than Overcharge. Verso is definitely better in combat.

>>720468202
Lune is a hapa bitch, she would've used everyone like Verso did if she had the chance

Gustave would've unironically sided with Verso to stop Maelle from killing herself with magic paint heroin
He implies he cares more about Maelle than the expedition

>>720520189
>Gustave invented tech that let painted creatures sucessfully fight and defeat Painters
I don't think they would've been able to fight and defeat Painters without Maelle in the party

I cannot understand at all why anyone would pick Maelle's ending over Verso's
Verso is completely right, the canvas is pure escapism, a drug, it needs to be destroyed so the family can move on
Alicia needs to accept that her scars do not define her
Aline needs to accept Verso's death
Staying in the canvas for too long literally kills you

>>720528667
>but I wanna have fun RIGHT NOW
>my problems can't touch me while I'm playing video ga-I mean, in the canvas!

>>720528667
>Kill countless innocents.
>Oh but these three random shmucks will have a slightly easier time processing a family members death.
>Writers have to use disingenuous techniques like scary music and black and white to make mass murder the “good” ending.
I guess this highlights the modern Western mindset of "fuck everyone else, got mine, no such thing as society". Now the west is falling because oh look at that, turns out Man is a social organism and once you inevitably run out of other people to throw under the bus there is no one left to keep you alive.

>>720528518
No, Gustave would have found some way to convince her to leave (or shove her out if necessary) without murdering everyone in the painting.

>>720528667
>Alicia needs to accept that her scars do not define her
they're so bad she literally cant talk and is missing an eye, how are you gonna attack someone for not wanting to deal with that

>>720529624
every time

>>720529624
>"fuck everyone else, got mine, no such thing as society".
Perfectly encapsulates Alicia fixing up the opera house so her 'brother' can play while the city rots

>>720529840
this is a classic example of the author not being able to support their own message given the rules of the world they've built, and subsequently having to create an outside meta excuse to "force" what they consider the "correct" answer without actually addressing the issue. Which just makes the bad ending feel fake and "illegitimate" to the audience because they know the real question was sidestepped via author fiat.
For a famous example, think how Final Fantasy Tactics Advance can't actually come up with a coherent argument for why the children must go back to their horrible original lives or why Ivalice is a bad place, and so has to make up an excuse that their life forces are being drained if they stay. Or for another example everyone loves to meme about, Persona 5. Where rather than addressing the actual question of the merits of a world without suffering, they instead have to make Maruki a flawed ignorant wellspring of the power, again avoiding actually addressing the question.
You can't ask "Is X or Y better?" but then if you pick Y have a meteor destroy earth for unrelated reasons and expect the audience to accept your argument for X.

>>720529792
Unless I'm in sort of chronic pain, I wouldn't care. I could go on normally with one eye and not being able to speak. For people like Maelle with a rich, supportive family, that's nothing.

>>720530130
The author intended to create two sad endings and no good ending, you think one is bad because you're self-conscious and feel attacked by your preferred ending having any flaws.

>>720471682
>The real Verso wouldn't cheat, lie and manipulate at the slightest inconvenience
His father apparently thinks otherwise.

>>720530231
Any coherent narrative only has one outcome that makes sense. That's why alternate histories make no sense. God does not play dice.

>>720530446
>Any coherent narrative only has one outcome that makes sense.
flip a coin.
>actually only one result makes sense because everything is deterministic
then why are you bitching about choices people make, you drone faggot?

>>720529710
Shame Markle disagrees. The WHOLE issue with the ending is that she won't listen

>>720529624
> Kill

Guy... They're not alive, they're not real

People have a hard time coming to terms with the fact the expedition had already lost before the game starts.
Renoir had won, hard, only thing verso does is speed up things.

>>720530606
Because they're making the choice that doesn't make sense in the context of the narrative. They're engaging in narrative vandalism that breaks immersion and stops the story moving forward.

>>720529710
Gustave is a nobody. He's as relevant as Lune or Sciel, so not at all. The Dessendres are the only important characters in the E33 world.

>>720530852
>Because they're making the choice that doesn't make sense in the context of the narrative.
Which choice is that?

>>720530727
Hence "Or shove her out". Even if he kept failing, he would have kept trying. What he would not have done is just gone "welp time to murder everyone for the sake of this one teenagers mental health."

>>720530231
>The author intended to create two sad endings
The Verso ending is obviously a million times sadder than Maelle's ending because it the death and non-resurrection of thousands of people. If the author was trying to make the endings be comparable, he failed.

>>720530849
Entropy already won. Everyone ITT is gonna die.
I don't want to speed up things.

>>720531587
No problem. Is that your angle when you do all these fake Verso lies and can't answer questions like:
>Why are Lune and Sciel happy? We know they're real people based on how they act on Act 3 and not zombies or puppets or something silly like that. Your headcanon doesn't make sense.
It's to try to make the choice some big question with no easy answers? You need to rely on gaslighting to do it?
You're doing that guy a great favor by pretending his game has a harder choice than it does, but it's pretty annoying. Can you stop?

>>720531189
Maelle's ending. The ending that turns a story about growing up and accepting our grief into a story of refusing to grow up and hating our family. It turns E33 into C77. Teenage rebellion was never the point.

>>720531587
He can't retort because he knows he wrote himself into a corner. He tried to make the ending "deep" but doesn't know how to respond when people bring up the fact that the narrative contradicts itself. He wrote an ending about "letting go" but didn't really realize the whole "mass murder of sentient beings with lives and families and shit" aspect until the game was already out and people pointed out how fucked up that is to him. So he just has to hem and haw awkwardly.

>>720531684
>>720531801
redpilled

>>720531801
He understood that the second gods entered the game, the lives of the painted characters ceased to have meaning. Pointing this out to people that spent hours developing parasocial relationships to those painted characters would not go down well.

>>720531741
Sounds like you missed the very obvious plot point that despite having Maelle's memories, Alicia is still Alicia and doesn't really care to act as Maelle would have. Alicia has all the reason Aline had to want to stay in the canvas and more, and it's obvious from the moment she wakes up in Lumiere that she wants to stay. Among the first things she says to Renoir is that the canvas is her home now. The entire plot of the game is tragedy after tragedy and you're shocked that the end didn't go according to your happy plan.

>>720531801
There are only two options
>The painted people are real. Maelle's ending is obviously more morally correct and Verso is a piece of shit.
Or
>The painted people aren't real. Two thirds of this game are completely pointless and about non-characters that don't matter.
So either the game is shit, or it failed at making a dilemma at the end. Personally, I pick the latter.

>>720531684
>Why are Lune and Sciel happy?
Because they love exploring ruins and Alicia was kind enough to leave their city destroyed.

>>720531912
Therefore, the narrative demands that she be accepted to force her loss. Those who refuse to grow up will be forced to grow up. Verso's ending keeps the narrative coherent. Maelle's ending is edgy alternate history a la Wolfenstein.

>>720532026
>the narrative demands that she be accepted to force her loss
By allowing untold amounts of loss to happen and not get fixed as a result. But Lumerians aren't real, apparently.

>>720532026
forced to accept her loss, I assume? It's not incoherent to have a person do something self-destructive when the person trying to stop them is overcome.

>>720532064
Lumierien lives never mattered. The author seems to think that was obvious. That's why he did his best to make us bond with Gustave, Lune, and Sciel. That makes making the correct choice more difficult. The correct choice remains the correct choice. It's the only choice that makes sense.

>>720532112
The entire story no longer has a message if we take that route. All that 'Tomorrow Comes' and 'For Those Who Come After' no longer makes sense. The story violates its own essential themes. It turns into cheap fanfiction.
Verso's ending implies that our creative outlets should enable us to better engage with the real world. In Maelle's ending, there is no underlying message to the game. "If people don't listen to you, become a god and force them to," is clearly not the message delivered throughout the rest of the game.

>>720532419
>Tomorrow Comes
>For Those Who Come After
Doesn't hit quite as hard when it's you purposefully killing thousands of people.

>>720531684
I've been shitposting for a while because all of these discussions were done to death in threads months ago but I feel like I've seen you make that post several times in this thread so I'll tell you my honest feelings on the ending. Here are details that influenced my opinion:
>The city is still destroyed, except for the opera house. If no time has passed, this is maybe not so bad, Alicia just allowed herself an indulgence early in the great project. But if significant time has passed, this has troubling implications as to whether she wants to help people, or just numb herself.
>Alicia is already showing signs of crumbling. This is maybe not so bad, given the way time dilation works a lot of time may have passed. But if no significant time has passed and she's already faring so poorly, this has dire implications as to her ability to be mentally present enough to help people.
>The white lumierens. I know you won't like this, but the only thing visually similar to them were the defective white nevrons. They shuffle about in an unmoving queue despite plenty of seats being open. The ones inside the operahouse have different outfits and are spaced out randomly. These people look like background details in a piece of art, not people living in a society.
>Before a few major progressions in Alicia's ending, things slow down until she gives a little nod, and then they proceed.
>The way Sciel and Lune are dressed identically to Alicia is odd, and Gustave and Sophie's mismatched (compared to the rest) outfits stand out as well.
>Alicia had Sciel and Lune's chroma in hand and couldn't bring them back without a deep understanding of them, which leaves me puzzled as to how she'd bring back a ton of people, most of whom she'd never met beyond seeing them walk around the city. Maelle was not close with many people.
>I feel verso's soul dialog and the fact that we know flesh verso did not want to spend his life painting suggest the soul is not happy painting.

>>720531576
Entropy isn't going to kill you in a year and every "human" in 30 some years.

>>720532609
>>720531684
cont.
There's probably a couple more details I don't remember since it's been a while since I bothered making a detailed post, but what I want to really emphasize is that I do NOT think these details are explicitly making her ending bad. I think they're ambiguous, intentionally, meant to make you wonder and draw conclusions based on how you feel, how you've felt so far, what you want to think, what you value, all of that. I think this game is a piece of art and art is meant to be interpreted. Many of these details can be interpreted positively. Many things I think are extremely unlikely may seem obviously true to you, due to your different interpretation of details presented to us throughout the game. That's why I think the writers did a good job making the choice a difficulty quandary, because they explicitly told us precious little. For example, >>720531530 goes on about the non-resurrection being a damning argument against Verso's ending, but I feel the situation we find ourselves in when it's choice time is: The only one who could possibly bring them back is Alicia, and I feel her her will or ability, or both, are not at the level required for that to come to pass. If it were a possibility, I do think Alicia's ending would be the better one, but the journey the game led me on did not make me think that that was the situation I found the characters left in.

There ARE some arguments that I find disingenuous, of course, too. I think saying details of either ending were due to budget cuts to be made in bad faith, for example. But on the whole, the endings are a good dilemma because they tell you something about yourself, as we weren't given enough explicit information to not have our own judgment not factor heavily in what we see as true.

>>720531926
Or
>the painted people are real, they died in act two and that's it

>>720532897
>>720532609
>>720531684
Anyways obviously none of this will get through to you if you're the guy in >>720465073 or someone like him or someone who thinks like "everyone in the painting is CHATGPT and you're a brainlet to possibly consider otherwise," because those people engaged with E33 in an overly emotional and obviously unhealthy way. Sometimes it's fun to argue with them but it gets to be sad pretty quickly.

>>720532609
>The city is still destroyed, except for the opera house. If no time has passed, this is maybe not so bad, Alicia just allowed herself an indulgence early in the great project. But if significant time has passed, this has troubling implications as to whether she wants to help people, or just numb herself.
All the characters we see are happy except for Verso, so clearly she's doing something right. We already know Sciel and Lune aren't zombies or anything like that, and they are perfectly logical beings. Even if Alicia doesn't ultimately care about these people and just wants to numb herself, that still means they get to live.
>Alicia is already showing signs of crumbling
Whether willingly or unwillingly, she's sacrificing herself for the sake of thousands of people. Good.
>These people look like background details in a piece of art, not people living in a society.
Sciel, Lune, Pierre, Gustave, Gustave's apprentice, so on and so forth, they're all happy and not background details. Why would they be happy if they were in some NPC land?
>The way Sciel and Lune are dressed identically to Alicia is odd
What are you suggesting here? We already know they were resurrected during Act 3 and they aren't odd there. Sciel gives her entire last part of the backstory, which is congruent with the rest of her dialogue, after she's been resurrected. If anything, this is a good argument on why those visual oddities, including the white civilians, are just visual flourishes.
>Maelle was not close with many people.
She brought back Pierre and isn't familiar with him at all besides what Sciel told her.
>Verso's Soul
Either the soul is barely sentient, has no free will, and is thus well worth sacrificing for the sake of the thousands of people, or it has a free will and wants to keep painting until Verso convinces him otherwise.

>>720532419
>The entire story no longer has a message if we take that route.
Sure it does. The message is the exact same one, the ending just wasn't happy. The message serves as a "what could have been" rather than a "this was for the best". Those slogans still make sense, a story can be a tragedy with its themes serving as lessons.
>>720532160
>Lumierien lives never mattered. The author seems to think that was obvious.
I get that you're angry but the author(s) intended this game to be very sad which is why they had Lumierens die in it, because that's sad, because they matter.

>>720532951
>they died in act two and that's it
Because of Verso, yes, I remember. Verso fans keep trying to hide that fact.

>>720532510
They were never meant to be seen as real people. They're imaginary friends on the same level as Monoco and Esquie. Aline's grief and inability to move on led to the tragedy of their creation, and your grief and inability to move on leads to the tragedy of their subsistence.
The Maelle ending is showing you the consequences of the wrong choice. It's telling you that you should rethink your values. It's pointing out that you haven't grasped the point of the story. It's ordering you - forcing you - to accept that you need to move on.

>>720533053
I'm not going to tell you your interpretations are wrong because I think that both of us came to conclusions that can't be proven, because art is meant to make you say "what does this say about me? What do I think about situations like these?" and not try to prove the objectivity of your interpretation to strangers.

>>720533168
Cool, so the prologue, the events in act 1, act 2, etc, none of it matters and I shouldn't care about any of it. If that is indeed the case, then you're right that Verso's ending is correct.

But what you're suggesting is a way shittier game that I'd have no reason to be interested in.

>>720533225
I don't even disagree that Maelle's ending has sad elements to it. Verso is forced to continue to suffer, with the implication that won't be able to convince Maelle to let him go no matter how hard he tries. Maelle is killing herself. The Dessendre family obviously continues being in tatters with no hope of getting back together.

But there's a reason why people need to make these big jumps in logic and try to conveniently forget that we've already seen Lune and Sciel come back, and we see them happy at the end. Because ultimately, everyone realizes that none of that can make up for the fact that in Verso's ending, thousands of people die and cannot be brought back, and in Maelle's ending, that doesn't happen.

>>720533414
I agree with you on that. Where we differ is our belief on Alicia's intentions. What I was presented with simply left with a belief that there's a 0% chance Alicia is willing/able to restore Lumiere. So from my perspective, it was a couple of character I really cared about living in a doomed world on the backs of two suffering versos, or the family getting a chance to heal together. Two bad choices. I picked the one that, based off of my conclusions, was a little more hopeful. If you think Alicia's intentions are different, then your choice makes perfect sense. But I don't feel either of us can definitively say what she'll do, we can only draw conclusions from the ambiguous details we were presented with.

>>720533414
>>720533668
>But there's a reason why people need to make these big jumps in logic and try to conveniently forget that we've already seen Lune and Sciel come back
And I'll go a little more in depth on my response to that one. We saw alicia straight up fail to bring them back until Verso taught her to focus on understanding, on a deep level, who they were. Then later, we see people that Alicia could not possibly have known (Pierre, at least) brought back. So we're given an incomplete equation.

Alicia needs to know people to revive them + ? = Alicia brought back people she doesn't know.

How you balance that equation is totally up to you. You substituted something like "she got a better mastery of her craft" or "sciel helped her understand pierre." I substituted something like "she removed more and more freedom from people to keep her illusion of a happy world alive." Obviously neither of us are objectively right in these methods of balancing the equation. That's the point.

>>720533785
You're saying that Alicia mindwiped Lune and Sciel or something?

First off, I'm gonna tell you that you are making a million more leaps in logic than I am.

But secondly, even just looking at this argument we're having, what this tells me is that no matter what, there is no good dilemma at the end this game.

Either I'm right, and the choice is between the existence of thousands of people and the suffering of one painted individual, one "soul" and the happiness of a single family.

Or you're right, and the choice is between one single girl's delusions and multiple people that don't want to be a part of them.

Either ways, there is no dilemma. These are no two comparably sad endings. In both instances, it's one obviously correct sad ending and one utterly retarded sad ending.

>>720534003
And another thing: Even in your interpretation of events, Verso is still a piece of shit and far worse than Maelle. Because he is still the one that ultimately manipulated the events to kill everyone 30 years earlier.

>>720534003
But neither of us is right. Which, again, is the point. You're obsessed with proving something without being given enough details to do so. You keep proposing this false dichotomy that one of us has to be right, rather than understanding the point: You are interpreting an incomplete set of data and how you fill in the gaps is a mirror. Since this is a video game and mostly retards play video games, they decided to slap us in the face with this message several times, the most glaring of which was Visages: Art is both a mirror and a window.

>>720534157
The only difference of note is that we have different interpretations of how the wacky mostly unexplained magics of E33 work. That's not a dilemma. That's a guessing game.

>>720534150
Of course, Verso subverts the intentions of the expedition and leaves out vital details, he betrays the party. He was not a mustache twirler and truly believed he was clandestinely doing the right thing, but were I an expeditioner I would've petitioned Alicia to gommage him. We don't have any choice in Verso double crossing them, it's a core part of the plot. The only time we get a choice is the ending, and "punish verso" wasn't high on my list of priorities.
>>720534249
The details of how the magic works aren't important except for the light they shed on the intentions of the characters. It's not a guessing game because the game is not "figure out the mechanics of magical painting," the game is "check out the fucked up situation these people find themselves in." We're told Alicia needs to know people to bring them back to make us wonder later how she brought Pierre back, a question you and I answered differently.

>>720533278
Life (and therefore art) is about learning and letting go. The canvas was originally Verso's childhood playground, filled with whimsy and merry. Aline entered and awkwardly forced an steampunk society into the canvas, ruining one of her son's most original creations. Clea and Renoir entered and turned it into a grimdark wasteland. Finally, Alicia entered, and as an amateur paintress, forgot her purpose, and led to turning it into a twisted inversion of its original purpose - still a child's playground, but now as a projection of personal trauma.
By choosing Maelle's path, you're revealing yourself to be exactly like Maelle, losing yourself in the canvas, forgetting your purpose, and inverting the story. Maelle's ending is a polite way of telling you to correct yourself, telling you that this game was made with a message, not merely as a means of escape.

>>720534480
>ruining one of her son's most original creations
the soul maintaining the canvas is a snapshot of verso at the time of its creation and he welcomes Aline's creation. It's the closest he's gotten in centuries if not millennia to playing with a family member, something he mentions the lack of being the cause of his anguish in like half his dialogs.

>>720533083
Verso's ending is oridnary sadness. Maelle's ending is extraordinary sadness. It's shit happens versus here's hell.

>>720534662
It's verso's hell, but it's not eternal. And while I agree with you in thinking her ending is significantly worse, you can see my other effort posts made recently as to why I understand how people could believe Alicia capable of restoring Lumiere.

>>720534639
Assuming it wasn't simply a little boy expressing his loneliness, even though the creative force inside a piece of art might enjoy being played with, playing with it leads to disastrous outcomes.
The Gestrals were the original inhabitants of the painting. They're who the painting was made for. From the moment other people entered the canvas, they've faced one disaster after another.
Toward the end, Verso's creation is completely ruined. Either the Lumieriens wipe out the Nevrons and Aline's creation takes over Verso's canvas, or Clea's creation takes over Verso's canvas.
Whatever the outcome, Verso's only remaining painting is ruined. In the family's grief, the last fragment of his soul is effectively erased. Which I would say is what the erasure of the canvas represents.

>>720535250
>The Gestrals were the original inhabitants of the painting. They're who the painting was made for.
The painting was made for Verso to have fun in. The gestrals were a means to that end.
>Whatever the outcome, Verso's only remaining painting is ruined. In the family's grief, the last fragment of his soul is effectively erased. Which I would say is what the erasure of the canvas represents.
You're right but I don't think that's a bad thing, I think it wants to be at peace anyways.

>>720535406
Maybe if the Nevrons hadn't nearly killed off the Gestrals, Verso's soul would have someone to play with. The creation of the Lumieriens and the Nevrons spelled the doom for Verso's soul. It made the erasure of the canvas inevitable.

>>720514350
Based take. Versos mask finally falls off and we see the man as he is, the coward desperate to die so he doesn't have to face all his sins.

In Versos ending he literally tells her that she can just start a new canvas to escape the pain. Showing that his motive is not to make her face reality or whatever people claim. Meanwhile Maelle says
>Don't leave me again
Sure she can't accept her bother is dead. But she also fights to not be alone, because that's what she is in the real world with her family, alone surrounded by her cold family. In the canvas she's got all her friends, that's what she's fighting for.

>>720534662
Hell is Verso not getting to take his own life? He just has to live out his life, surrounded by people who love him(not deserved at all).

>>720535638
There's a gestral village that Verso's soul doesn't hang out in because the people he misses are his family. The gestrals are toys, made to have fun with in the same way clea made nevrons for her and Verso to have fun fighting against. The gestrals level of intelligence is clearly far less sophisticated than Aline's painted humans, and even they don't satisfy Verso because he makes it very clear that he misses playing with Renoir and Clea. They're not coming back, the one thing about the canvas that made it a happy place for Verso has moved on. It's time to put that spirit to rest. The choice was obvious before Aline complicated it by mixing in a race of sapient painted humans.
>>720535712
>the coward desperate to die so he doesn't have to face all his sins.
He chooses not to die, he could've just let Renoir gommage him
>But maelle pulled his arm
He could've resisted, chose not to.
>But she also fights to not be alone, because that's what she is in the real world with her family,
This is your headcanon.

>>720535876
He's in shock and is getting pulled along. Depressed people are not like fully focused on dying in the quickest possible way, looking for a sword to jump on in front of people they care about, right? So he follows along, and yeah he's torn, he has thoughts and instincts that tells him to also help Maelle and his friends, but in the end his strong feelings of despair and not being a real person takes over.

>This is your headcanon.
It's also what she says to Renoir, that she fights for her friends, she cares for them like he claims he cares for her. And that's their entire mission from the beginning, all the pain and suffering they go through is because they want to save the town and their friends.

>>720535824
If Alicia lets him die, then Maelle's ending is pointless. It's her spending two real world days in the canvas before going back to her family.
If Alicia doesn't let him die, then Maelle's ending is still pointless. It's an infinite series of Friends reruns he never asked for with people he was never shown to really care for in the first place.

>>720536174
It's not pointless, she just wants to live out their lives.

>>720530179
Alicia is in chronic pain. She explicitely says in the epilogue that it hurts to breath.

>>720536292
Doing what exactly? Forcing her slaves to listen to him play the piano every day?

>>720536525
There are no slaves and he promised he would play for them. He claims he loves playing the piano.