Thread 724857349

Why is this boss so hated?
No shitter whining please.

>>724857349 (OP)
I loved this guy. His lore was 10/10 and killing the femboy ruining his afterlife is gret.
It was cosmic justice.

>>724857349 (OP)
Firstly because it's just Radanh again which is disappointing as the final boss and also retroactively cheapens the OG Radanh fight, Secondly because his laser spam rapes my screen and I can't see shit when my camera is full of laser beams.

Imagine being this size as the PC and wailing on a boss that barely reaches up your leg. What a shitty feeling, like beating up a literal dwarf rolling around on the ground. All your immaculate noble swordsmanship reduced to lawnmowing procedures.

I guess there's a reason this has never happened in the history of video games.

>>724857349 (OP)
Reused design, honestly. I was expecting something more epic.

>>724857349 (OP)
Messmer was better and new.

>>724857349 (OP)
The best dlc ever released.

>>724857349 (OP)
Gameplay wise? He's one of the best bosses in the game, undoubtedly top 3
Lore wise? It's a rematch of a guy we already beat in the first game whose story was done so it was a bit of a letdown
I wanted to fight Godwyn so bad guys

I bought the dlc at launch but never beat it and now I'll never experience him pre-nerf (on top of being spoiled like a retard). I'll regret this all my life

>>724857638
Luckily you didnt care about that so it won't weigh on you.

>>724857349 (OP)
Kino battle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNyINUjidKM

>>724857410
I did this and I didn’t even realise it was a meta, I just like spears with shields
After they made it so shields don’t work on malenia I thought I’d be fucked in the DLC

Getting flashbanged by lightbeams landing 0.00001 inches in front of your camera
Otherwise he's a pushover if you bring a big shield

>>724857349 (OP)
few different things
>radahn being there violated some people's headcanon
>rough pre-launch footage of an older version of the fight was leaked and the people who don't play video games thought it launched like that
>he's hard

>>724857831
I feel really bad for those sisters.

>>724857768
There's probably a mod to restore him pre nerf right?

>>724857858
Yeah you can

>>724857858
I don't care just like anon didn't care.

>>724857349 (OP)
It's Radahn but less cooler and more gay. Ruined him.

>>724857410
BASED

>>724857349 (OP)
>Radahn again lmao
>leak controversy
>Lack of visual clarity in the fight
>had a true combo on release which he could trigger at any time which got patched
>Method to beat him is simply hugging his right leg
>Miquella is a shitty character and makes other characters shittier by proxy
>Radahn again lmao

>>724857349 (OP)
It's the best boss in gaming ever

>>724857349 (OP)
>Why is this boss so hated?

>>724858036
I feel really bad for those sisters.

>>724858036
>Miquella is a shitty character
Yeah also this
The guy who can mindcontrol anyone, demigods and mortals alike, somehow gets beaten

>>724857349 (OP)
for me it was cause it took me 50 tries to even see what his moveset was doing cause of all the effects

>>724858385
>The guy who can mindcontrol anyone, demigods and mortals alike, somehow gets beaten
Damn, almost as if John Tarnished is the strongest entity in the ER universe that already defeated all the demi-gods, legendary creatures an entities, 3 other Elden Lords, and the literal embodiement of an Outer God.

>>724857349 (OP)
Aside from some PC lag, the beams being too bright for some people, and one combo-ender in Phase 2 having the attack slightly delayed from the animation, there's only shitter whining. The boss shouldn't have been nerfed, and certainly not that much. In particular, the cross-clash combo needs to speed up again to make dodging left a tactical thing once more, and the recovery frames on the Blood Flame attacks need to be faster again so homunculus Mohg-Radahn can resume using them as smokescreens just like Mohg does.

>>724858385
It makes sense if you've played the base game.

>>724857349 (OP)
I saw it as a love letter to the fans and the character t b h. It felt like fighting Red in Pokemon. I wasn't mad at all, but he's my favorite character in the game so it might be bias.

>>724857349 (OP)
He's fine other than Miquella's stupid fucking hair in the second phase.

>>724858521
ERfags are subhuman and should stay as far away from game design discussion.

>>724857796
>Shields don't work on Malenia
What? Do you mean they don't stop her life steal even though they heavily reduce it?

>>724857349 (OP)
Only shitters, seething Godwynfags and falseflagging discordtroons hate him thoughbeit

>>724857349 (OP)
Its hard and summoning can make him harder. Might require changes in strategy and many people are not gonna want to adapt after playing for hundreds of hours.

>>724858829
If you lean on the shield too hard she will gain her hp back faster than you can damage her (if you suck) and it becomes a stalemate.

>>724858827
>The dodge direction should actually matter for at least one move
>A major purpose of a reference attack should be retained in the subsequent boss fight
>Some anon thinks this is subhuman
What in the world do you consider human, then?

>>724858914
Even those groups have come around on the dlc. It is pretty much universally praised now.

>>724858501
The Tarnished canonically uses Summons and Spirit Ashes. He's a scrub.
>>724858526
It makes even less sense. Miquella could've controlled everyone from the beginning, even the MC if he didn't let himself get caught by Mohg (on purpose?)

>>724857349 (OP)
Generally to feel good, a boss should pick 2/3:
>be tanky
>be quick and aggressive
>do a lot of damage
Usually you pair 1 and 3 or 2 and 3. Sometimes you'll see 1 and 2 for some early game bosses that are meant to make you learn certain mechanics.
Consort Radahn grabbed all 3. He has a lot of HP and damage negation, he is relentless and fast, and he does a ton of damage.

He's much easier now than he was at release but unless you have a dozen hours just learning his moveset, he is an absolute monster even now.

>>724857349 (OP)
Normgroids didn't realize the game expects you to participate in kino and use deflecting hardtear
Secondly, no matter the story justification or how different the fight is mechanically, it is just lame to fight this dude again.

>>724859016
Miquella's mind control isn't all-powerful. He couldn't charm normal Radahn, he has to resort to charming a fragment of Radahn's soul and putting it in Mohg's body, and even that fragment is increasingly breaking free. Miquella also didn't plan on being kidnapped, a spirit in the Consecrated Snowfield demanding Miquella's return confirms that. Miquella just improvised once his consciousness awoke enough to realize what was happening.

>>724859016
The base game shows him make a choice not to use his power doesn't it? I remember the trina lore being about her persona being used in lieu of his own powers he feared using.
Deciding to use that power in the dlc was big character development for the fag.

>>724857349 (OP)
It's the pinnacle of wasted potential, the DLC could have been much better than what we got in the final product

>>724857349 (OP)
It's the final fight of the game after some pretty decent (and some bad, more on that later) bosses like Bayle and Sunflower.
But it's not fun, it's a boss we already beat before but less interesting, the boss weapon it drops are underwhelming, it's supposed to be Moghs body but barely looks like it, lots of visual pollution on phase 2, after you beat it you can't even go to the arc you just sit there and that's it.

Also Miquela is a cringe character who appeals to trannies and faggots such as >>724858914.

The DLC itself was also underwhelming. It is interesting the first time you go through it but it has 0 replayability. I made like 5 characters before the DLC came out to try out in the DLC with several builds, like I did before with all souls games before elden ring, and it was the first time I finished the DLC and didn't come back to it. In fact, since finishing the DLC, I never touched Elden Ring again. I must have finished the Dark Souls 1, 2, 3 and BB DLCs hundreds of times, but I can never muster the energy to play Elden Ring's again.
Hate is a strong word, but I definitely don't like it. It's the second worst fight of the DLC, only second because that scorpion lady whatever she was felt like literal filler and had one of the most empty and barren areas I've ever seen in a souls game.

And in case you're wondering, yes I did beat it pre-patch, without a shield or ashes, just my trusty Greatsword, and I wouldn't have guessed a shield would work anyway, based on what the base game teaches you

>>724859016
>Miquella could've controlled everyone from the beginning
That's not how it works you stupid retard
Miquella can control people without grace by granting them his own rune.
That can't work for Radahn (who is his ally and willingly joins him as Lord) or the player (who is Lord of the Erdtree), but works on Mohg and works on his other NPCs.
This is why the effect of his runes breaks when he discards the Great Rune, but that isn't exclusive to Miquella, controlling people is exactly what grace is for, it's manipulation of light created by the Fingers and the reason as far back as the Nox rebellion mirrorhelms were used to contrast that power.

The only reason the Tarnished can retain some agency is that Marika's grace is fading and won't affect most people now, with a lot of those it used to control now being mindless death after death and seeking to hunt the Tarnished.

>>724859417
>But it's not fun
It's a pretty fun boss but it requires actually thinking how to beat him due to all the AOE attacks. Its not just pure mechanics.

>>724857349 (OP)
REAL ANSWER: He's pure bait.
The first half forces you to dodge right because its easier that way, but the second half punishes you for dodging right with Miquella's light beams.
Learning to dodge left in both phases makes his basic patterns straightforward and you just have to dodge some of the gotcha attacks like the meteor or the ones where his clones spam, that's it.

>>724859417
>based on what the base game teaches you
Great shields are also OP in the base game wtf are you talking about Jesse.

>>724859469
None of that matters though. Miquella COULD have been controlling people from the outset (dlc reveals he was) but tried not to do that. He started off knowing that doing that wasn't good so he used an alter persona to spread his side of things without having to go full mind control. He used various route to power that didn't involve direct mind control but kept failing.
He starts out not valuing the power of the mind control and slowly begins to warm up to it as his alternatives fall away in failure.

>Whine that elden ring is "rollslop"
>Also whine when there are attacks you can't easily roll though

>>724859530
The lights peed attacks are pure kino.

>>724859469
>Willingly joins him
Miquella had to launch a full land invasion of Caelid, army vs. army, to try abducting Radahn, and Miquella's memory after the fight is of begging and pleading while sounding like he's sniffling from getting rejected. Miquella even rushes out of the gate before all of his arms are fully formed to try maintaining control when Radahn's soul fragments start to stir further from the fighting. Radahn's soul fragments were always going to end up breaking free, Miquella's plan fundamentally doesn't work.

>>724859178
>Miquella's mind control isn't all-powerful
Powerfull enough to control Mohg and presumably Malenia
>>724859209
Idc the four armed faggot had it coming

>>724859417
Holy truth nuke.
>troons seething in the replies
Only proves you right.

>>724859743
SOTE is a solid Berserk fanfic.

>>724858918
If you shield poke maybe it won't work but guard countering into riposte can easily outdamage her healing.

>>724859769
>had it coming
Definitely so. His fall from grace makes it even better.

>>724859630
They are not that OP. Yeah if you use the best of them and invest heavily they are really good but I'd say that's true for a lot of things. Elden Ring is decently balanced in options.

>>724859469
Anon, the Nox Mirrorhelms were to prevent being tracked by the Greater Will, not to repel mind control. Grace isn't mind control, and Marika had to create a special prosthetic eye to mess with Messmer, but still needed "manual" mental and emotional manipulation and abuse for the most part.

>>724859805
>(if you suck)
you can do a thousand different things to outdpsrace her but if you suck you won't know how and thinik blocking sucks.
I used a lava whip and greatshield once, the lava from the whip kept interrupting her so she could never attack.

>>724859769
Mohg is weaker than Radahn at his best during the Shattering and the battle of Aeonia. Malenia isn't mind controlled, she has actual reasons to care about her brother and believe in his cause, even if the extents she took things too were bad ideas. Miquella wasn't always charming people, he had to learn how to do that. Based on how the mist from the Bewitching Branches is nearly the same color as the irises/pupils of the Nox's charmed ants before they break free, Miquella had to study how the Nox charmed the giant ants they use for cavalry.

>>724859635
>None of that matters though.
You think it doesn't because you are retarded
>Miquella COULD have been controlling people from the outset
No it couldn't. Miquella bestows runes to each and every of his followers and Mohg. This is why there's an albinauric who uses discus of Light right before Mohg's portal. Miquella actually used the Albinaurics to infiltrate Moghwyn Palace and charm Mohg and it's foreshadowed as far back as the original game.

The guidance of grace is the power to weaponize light in order to compel, command and direct illusions. The Fingers can weave that light into a cipher, a language that commands and travels through time and space. Miquella is the first God to actually learn, through his Fundamentalism studies, to weaponize it himself, but he can't control those who have been given the Grace of the Erdtree like the player

>>724859924
>Pressing R2 is hard
???

>>724859769
Malenia was still on the Haligtree waiting for Miquella to come out of the cocoon. She is just very protective of her brother.

>>724859743
>Miquella had to launch a full land invasion of Caelid, army vs. army, to try abducting Radahn
No he didn't. The Battle was instrumental and a mean to both gather sacrifices and give Radahn a glorious death according to the traditions of Helphen
>and Miquella's memory after the fight is of begging and pleading while sounding like he's sniffling from getting rejected.
Headcanon

>>724858918
that can only really happen if youre severily lacking in damage and stance damage
you also dont have to block literally everything, theres some obvious easy things to evade here and there

>>724859862
The prosthetic eye was to contain the Abyssal serpent which would presumably devour everything if not contained.

>>724859981
Anon, Miquella mind controlled a troupe of people before the main game started. He canonically has used his power but the lore says he didn't prefer doing that.
He could be doing it but generally doesn't. That mindset changes by the dlc and his ascension. None of your monologuing on the mechanics of how it works matters when you look at what happened. The rules you're stating are true, but so are the events of the game.

>>724857796
you mostly just need to figure something else out. get some strong spear ash, maybe stack some powerful buffs, maybe trade the spear for some other heavier weapon, maybe try some parries etc

>hard boss
>look inside
>it's a shitter that can't break a greatshield guard

>>724857410
You doesnt beatoughted the game.

>>724859862
>the Nox Mirrorhelms were to prevent being tracked by the Greater Will
Nope
>Grace isn't mind control
Yes it is
>and Marika had to create a special prosthetic eye to mess with Messmer
Marika created a rune eye because she could not bestow grace onto a creature of dark like him. It's when he removes that eye that sees what Marika did and curses her, qhich is the qhole point of that final dialogue.
Likewise, Messmer forces were kept under control by "pseudo-grace" irises which enforces the theme of grace as this mean of control

>>724859981
Miquella wasn't charming the Albinaurics, Miquella was trying to create a version of Grace that wouldn't be incompatible with them. He was trying to help them have a higher quality of life and also not be ostracized. A spirit in the Consecrated Snowfield insults Mohg and demands Miquella's return, so the abduction was not planned by Miquella. The Two Fingers wrote literal words in the air, they didn't have a mind control language. Heck, if anything, Ranni seems to have been misled into abandoning her body, since the Two Fingers could have hijacked Marika's autonomy long ago if they had such a power (and they wouldn't have needed to look for regular replacement Empyreans either).

>>724860054
>gather sacrifices
You're that schizo again with his baseless nonsense of powering up Radahn's physical flesh even though it's not Radahn's body used at Enir-Ilim. There's nothing to do with the Helphen in the DLC, and the Tarnished having Radahn's Remembrance, a chunk of his soul (if not the large majority of his soul), is already an enormous impediment to any kind of "sacrifice" plan. As for Miquella's memory after the fight, literally listen to the actress' line delivery.

>>724860183
Grace isn't mind control. Tarnished who don't see grace anymore don't see it because Marika stops showing it to them when they don't follow it. Them not following it shows it doesn't control them.
Why are you doing this?

>>724860071
The prosthetic eye is implied to have a secondary purpose of messing with Messmer's mind, hence why he can initially only cite his unchanged purpose and mantra given to him. Messmer isn't even allowed to modify the mantra to say "my flame" either.

>>724860302
The black keep is the helphen steeple though. The funeral rites discussed on that sword are talking about champions being taken there to be studied on death. Did you forget what the black keep was doing?

>>724860183
IMAGINE GIVING A SHIT ABOUT THIS THRICE RETCONNED, RESHUFFLED, IMPROVISED, BADLY TRANSLATED MESS OF A LORE.
CLOWNS

>>724860096
>Anon, Miquella mind controlled a troupe of people
Yes, the DLC npcs
>He canonically has used his power but the lore says he didn't prefer doing that.
No it doesn't. The lore establishes that Miquella controlled people by giving them grace, with Leda being the only one not to have it in her eyes which is why you can collect it
Leda also assumes the player is one of them because he sees someone with grace, and there's very little people who still have Marika's grace so the Tarnished must be one of Miquella's companions instead
>He could be doing it but generally doesn't.
No matter how many times you try to peddle your bullshit. It's just not true. Miquella uses mind control on all those who are graceless. Neither Radahn nor the player are, which is why they are not directly controlled.

>>724859979
>Mohg is weaker than Radahn at his best during the Shattering
Highly doubt that considering how Mohg's bro little bro, Morgott was able to whoop Radahn's ass during the war.
All Demigods except Godrick were equal in terms of power that's why the Shattering ended up in a standstill.
>>724860015
She could be... or maybe not.

>>724857349 (OP)
The 2nd phase just has too much bullshit, and you can barely see what's going on with all the lightshow spam.

I got through phase 2 by just spamming the ironflesh and defense bubble perfumes and spamming charged R2s and chugging estus while face-tanking everything.

>>724860446
>Yes, the DLC npcs
Yes them. He mind controls them way in the past of the game's setting. The base game takes place way after he controls them. It shows he was always willing to do it even though he didn't like to do it.

>>724860302
I'm correct and you are retarded
>>724860187
>Miquella wasn't charming the Albinaurics
Yes he was. You can see a golden eyed albinauric near Mogh's portal that uses Fundamentalism incantations.
The Albinaurics are graceless so prone to accepting Miquella's grace which made them a useful resource to infiltrate Moghwyn Palace.
The game set up Miquella's plan long before the DLC

>>724860545
FUCKING AUTISTIC CLOOOOOOOOOOOOWNS

>>724857349 (OP)
Radahn is basically one of those MMO bosses that spam nonstop AoE attacks and you have to walk to the one spot in the arena that doesn't have an orange circle on it to indicate where the attack will land, only there's no orange circle and you have to find the safe zone through dumb trial and error, and at the same time these attacks cover the screen in absurd amounts of particle vomit so you can't see what's going on. Extremely obnoxious gameplay. Also, the lore surrounding the fight sucked really hard and that sucks a lot of the hype out of it.

>>724860415
>>724860575
heheheheheheh seethe

>>724860545
>It shows he
Can only control graceless people, which means he can't control anyone and he still needs to imbue his rune upon his followers.
The only way Miquella could actually control people with grace, for a very brief moment, is through charming branches, that are needles exactly because the whole point is stabbing the enemy with a needle which counters for a brief moment his own real grace. The whole point of St. Trina's contribution to this is that sleep yields the power to separate the individual from his grace, exactly what brings solace to those afflicted by madness (which is in itself corrupted grace) and stops NPCs from being compelled to attack the Tarnished.

It's hilarious how Elden Ring is the biggest IQ filter in gaming while also being extremely popular at the same time.

>>724860183
The helms ward off intervention by preventing the Greater Will and the Two Fingers from even knowing where a person is, and thus they don't know where to intervene. That's why Iji is tracked down by Black Knife Assassins after he takes off the helm and they have to kill him in combat rather than Iji being mind controlled. The Nox/Numen are implied to also know how to use that tracking technique, since they'd have to test if the helms even worked before attempting their "high treason."

Furthermore, why wouldn't Iji make Blaidd a custom Mirrorhelm if they could prevent things like mind control and being made berserk?

Marika could bestow Grace onto Messmer, but she was resentful of him being born cursed and blamed him for it even though it was her job to cure people of things like that in the first place. If even Morgott and Mohg can have Grace eyes and wield a Great Rune, Messmer could too. The Iris of Grace was meant to have a propagandizing effect, while the Iris of Occultation was a torture device. Neither achieve being anything like mind control, and both had to be manually applied.

>>724857349 (OP)
it's literally just the 2nd phase

>can't see shit because of Miquella's hair and all the light beams
>deals insane dmg to you
>long combos and attacks that aren't intuitive enough so you can avoid them without spending hours fighting him over and over

>>724857410
basedbasedbasedbasedbased

>>724860407
The Shadow Keep isn't the building depicted on the Helphen's Steeple, and there's no mention of a special red form of the guidance of Grace in the Land of Shadow. Messmer and his forces don't even use Ghostflame, they either use Messmer's fire or some kind of Grace-based flame to burn remains. The Shadow Keep was studying Crucible specimens from Rauh and preserving Rauh's culture while also apparently sending key tablets back to Marika (the Tree Sentinel with a Sentry's Torch implies that there was some limited traffic between the Lands Between and the Land of Shadow).

>>724861075
>and there's no mention of a special red form of the guidance of Grace in the Land of Shadow
Remember Messmer's snakes?
>Messmer and his forces don't even use Ghostflame
You find ghostflame flowers by the dragon corpse with a deathrite bird right next to it. Messmer's forces didn't practice ghostflame but the people doing shamanistic funeral rites with the GEQ did. And their champions were taken to the black keep and they made up a story about it. Before Messmer took the place over it was used to study specimens by the hornsent in their efforts to make their own divine beast champions.

>>724860449
Radahn wasn't at his best when facing Morgott, he wasn't fully grown, he didn't have his iconic swords, he didn't have enough skill with gravity magic to bring his horse along, etc. The demi-gods weren't equal in power, Radahn became great enough to kick all of outer space's ass and Malenia was considered an undefeated warrior whose record wasn't padded and only experienced a loss (or draw) until the battle of Aeonia.

>>724860563
Those Albinaurics have golden eyes because Miquella is trying to create a form of Grace that works for them, courtesy of the Haligtree. The various cocoons throughout Elphael also indicate that Miquella was trying to modify the Albinaurics to be healthier and be capable of having Grace, akin to how he was trying to modify himself in a cocoon to break his curse and possibly even become a god. We even potentially see an Albinauric modification take place during Latenna's quest when she brings a birthing droplet to her sister.

None of these Grace-having Albinaurics are at Mohgwyn Palace, and the Consecrated Snowfield spirit wouldn't be present and demanding Miquella's return if Miquella planned the abduction. His followers would know the plan.

>>724857349 (OP)
>roll forward
>roll forward right or left sometimes
>win
Gg ez
>>724857410
LOL shitter

post more Miquella

>>724857349 (OP)
Is it worth beating PCR "legit", that is rolls only, no shields and no summons? How many of you bothered doing it?

>>724857349 (OP)
Did you play the unpatched version? I have. It had about 5 or 6 different moves that were literally impossible to dodge, and it was nigh impossible to see anything in phase 2 because of the endless light pillars.

>>724857349 (OP)
He's insanely ugly visually. Some animations remind me about DS2. The way he moves around the arena, the retarded t-posing he does in the second phase, his overall look, all of it screams constrained budget. Compare it to the insanity of Gael fight which is still the peak in terms of Fromsoft presentation. Some of his attacks are stolen from Pontiff which is really not what you'd want from a final DLC boss.
He embodies everything wrong with modern fromsoft boss design. It's just endless, non stop aoe attacks with nearly pinpoint tracking and no room to breathe. Their combat systems are too primitive for bosses like that, there's no feeling of back and forth between you and boss.
Lore wise, the entire finale is LAME AS FUCK. And no, i didn't want Godwyn as a final boss. Thematically the DLC ends with Messmer fight and Leda gank. Miquella ends up being a gigantic nothingburger of a character, with no gravitas or presence, and blatantly reusing Radahn like this screams of a tonally deaf reddit fanservice.

>>724861582
Skill issue lol

>>724861474
does it count if I used the deflect tear?

>>724861303
Messmer's Winged Serpents don't manifest any red version of the guidance of Grace, and neither do the abyssal serpent or whatever additional fiery serpent he may have had. There's a better chance that the Forbidden Lands leading to the Mountaintops of the Giants are related to the Helphen, and that's only if the red energy there isn't just the Giants' Flame instead.

Grave Violets show up near graves in particular, not at the Shadow Keep, and Deathbirds and Death Rite Birds show up near massacre sites or cling to Farum Azula debris that was presumably from massacre sites. The Gloam-Eyed Queen used the Rune of Death and Black Flame, not Ghostflame. Why would anyone make up a false story for the sake of the Helphen's Steeple? The hornsent didn't need the Shadow Keep as a research lab, the Bone Bow confirms that Enir-Ilim was already their research lab. The hornsent also studied Rauh at Rauh itself and had places established there like the Church of the Bud.

The Specimen Storehouse has an interior fashioned like Leyndell, not Belurat or Enir-Ilim.

>>724858521
>the boss SHOULD have an undodgeable combo and SHOULD have combos with no punish windows so i can feel like an elite for spending 12 hours beating him
Fuck off retard

>>724860914
>That's why Iji is tracked down by Black Knife Assassins after he takes off the helm and they have to kill him in combat rather
The Black Knives, who are Noxians and scions of the Eternal City themselves, don't work for the Fingers. The Baleful Shadows do
>The helms ward off intervention by preventing the Greater Will and the Two Fingers from even knowing where a person is, and thus they don't know where to intervene.
No
>Worn by those committed to high treason,
it wards off the intervention of the Greater Will and its vassal Fingers
It stops the Fingers from mind controlling people, that has nothing to do with the Black Knives and his helm is on his dead body and not removed so you haven't even played the fucking game
>Furthermore, why wouldn't Iji make Blaidd a custom Mirrorhelm if they could prevent things like mind control and being made berserk?
Blaidd is a shadow, a graceless creature of pure dark. He is already bound tp be controlled by the Fingers
>Marika could bestow Grace onto Messmer
No she couldn't, which is why she made her own prosthetic eye in replacement for the original one who could not accept it. Quit making shit up
>If even Morgott and Mohg can have Grace
Mohg doesn't have grace and Morgott can have grave because nothing stop the Omen from having grace. Their body is mutated due to the communion with the Scadutree through the curse of the Fell God, but they are still human.

>>724857410
This game and its mechanics are so retarded holy shit.

>>724861474
I did
STR/INT run with Blaidd's Sword and a bunch of spells
It was so kino

>>724861682
>Grave Violets show up near graves in particular
You don't even know what I'm talking about lol.

>>724861724
I said in my post how you dodge the cross-slash combo -- roll to the left. The direction of the dodge roll actually matters. For that matter, it helps if you take one or two steps beforehand for extra distance as well. The Blood Flame attack specifically isn't meant to have a major punish window there because Mohg himself, who introduced the attack and is the reason DLC Radahn has said attack, used it as a smokescreen to set up for another attack.

>>724861619
Sniffing Miquella's nutsack

>>724861921
Nigger that's not true and you fucking know it. I fought unpatched Radahn across three saves with fast roll. The only way you can dodge the cross slash combo is by rolling left BEFORE he even starts the combo, so that the first swipe crosses through the last few iframes. If you reaction roll the first swipe (left or right, it doesn't matter), you get rollcaught by the follow up. Also, Mohg uses the attack alone outside of any combos, and the animation itself is very punishable (hence no recovery). Radahn uses it at the end of a long string of combo which isn't punishable. May I also add you're a retard?

>>724862052
>>724861921
Even before patches the trick was to double dodge by pressing dodge again while still in the first dodge animation. The entire dlc was okiedoked like that but almost no one caught on so they patched it.

>>724862125
I had 3k hours into Elden Ring from doing endless SL1 runs and PVP before going into the DLC. I can guarantee you I understood the game mechanics to a much more intimate level than you did. And the triple slash was straight bullshit. Not Waterfowl level of bullshit, but Waterfowl is the only threatening attack in the arsenal of a boss that was otherwise a massive pushover. Triple slash happens constantly in both phases with no warning, and results in forced HP loss

>>724861759
Read the post first, anon. The Black Knife Assassins don't work for the Two Fingers, but they know how to use the tracking arts, since they'd have to test if their Mirrorhelms even worked first.

We literally see that Iji removes his Mirrorhelm (the item is picked up on his anvil a ways away) so people can find him and he can de facto execute himself. From just didn't remove the asset on his head too because Iji and Pidia were handled in a janky way where they have Black Flame instead of Rune of Death flame and red blood instead of silver blood respectively. If Grace was mind control, Iji wouldn't be found near three dead Black Knife Assassins and covered in flames related to their weapons.

Shadows aren't Graceless creatures, Maliketh even has a whopping 80% holy resistance, the same as Radagon and the Elden Beast itself. Plus, if trolls naturally have Grace, how would Iji wearing a Mirrorhelm protect him from mind control at all if he was already "bound to be controlled", per your theory?

Marika made the prosthetic eye to seal the abyssal serpent while still keeping it around to raise hell one day. Grace alone wouldn't be sealing the abyssal serpent. Mohg has Grace, the fucker's intact eye is ultra golden. Your claim for how Mohg and Morgott are cursed is bullshit, the Grandam has dialogue cursing them herself if she's attacked before the Divine Beast Dancing Lion boss fight.

>>724857349 (OP)
>Claymore 2H
>Cragblade
Yup it’s stagger time

>>724862258
I can tell by your post you are all theory and no action.

>>724860619
I still remember all the posts on here and /dsg/ calling the chinese leak fake and a badly made mod recycling animations lmao, then the dlc dropped and everybody pretended it was the greatest boss from ever made

>>724862471
I can tell by your post you've had a few hundred cocks inside of your asshole and have never felt the touch of a woman

>>724862495
Yeah the troons trying to push it went to insane lengths when people started laughing at them.

>>724861870
Gee anon, I wonder if the Hidden GRAVE of Charo might have a grave, or perhaps even tons of them, there? Also, that location is on the OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE MAP from the Scadutree. I'd call you a troll, but you post this shit too often in this threads for that to be likely.

>>724862554
>/v/ is one person

>>724862560
Who's Charo btw?

>>724862560
Why does only that one place have it? Why is there a huge dead dragon there? Why is the twinbird imagery that of a phoenix? Why isn't there a physical corpse for the divine beast warriors and they use gold effigies instead?

There's an entire side of the shadowlands lore about the GEQ and her cult that isn't explored much so you haven't thought about any of it.

>>724857621
You want to fight a motionless corpse?

>>724857349 (OP)

It really REALLY should have been Godwyn. Which made a thousand times more sense from a purely narrative perspective but GRRM cannot write for shit these days.

>>724862775
Could have been a cool dream sequence fight like the dragon. Godwyn could still see himself as beautiful in his dream mind and he summons beautiful angels to help him fight.
After the fight you see a ton of corpses of the lightning skeleton armor knights around his corpse.

>>724862775
I want to fight prime Godwyn not a mermaid looking mannequin

>>724862052
Anon, you dodge left before the sword gets too close to you, not before he has even begun the attack. You dodge left and are then low enough to the ground that the second slash flies above you. If you dodge in a different direction, Radahn has enough time to adjust his angle and hit you. Mohg uses Bloodflame Talons as a smokescreen for a running stab throughout the fight, with a lone Bloodflame Talons generally only happening near the very start when he has barely taken any damage, if he has even been hit at all. It's Mohg's running stab that is the move to punish, not Bloodflame Talons itself. Radahn uses the Blood Flame slash as a standalone move, not as a combo ender, and used to then follow it up with something else, often Lion's Claw after jumping away if players moved behind him.

>>724862125
The trick wasn't to buffer another dodge, people do that against various bosses all the time. You had to dodge to the left (sometimes with the momentum of at least one step) or you'd get hit during the recovery frames of the animation.

>>724862871
That would have conflicted pretty strongly with his ending route.

>>724861348
>Those Albinaurics have golden eyes because Miquella
Bestowed them grace
There's nothing that indicates the Albinaurics can't receive the guidance of grace
>We even potentially see an Albinauric modification take place during Latenna's quest when she brings a birthing droplet to her sister.
The birthing droplet serves to make Latenna's sister a mother for Albinaurics to be born. You are mixing things up throwing random shit at the wall to see what sticks
>>724862453
>The Black Knife Assassins don't work for the Two Fingers, but they know how to use the tracking arts, since they'd have to test if their Mirrorhelms even worked first.
>We literally see that Iji removes his Mirrorhelm (the item is picked up on his anvil a ways away)
Headcanon bullshit
>Shadows aren't Graceless creatures
Yes they are
>Plus, if trolls naturally have Grace
What the fuck are you talking about?
>Marika made the prosthetic eye to seal the abyssal serpent
>Grace alone wouldn't be sealing the abyssal serpent.
Nope, he made the prosthetic eye as a mean to actually have him accept grace and seal the abyssal serpent
>Mohg has Grace
No he does not
>Your claim for how Mohg and Morgott are cursed is bullshit, the Grandam has dialogue cursing them herself if she's attacked before the Divine Beast Dancing Lion boss fight.
Retard

>>724862950
Post a clip of you dodging original Radahn by having the second hit "fly over your head" after reaction dodging the first hit.
>"y-y-you can actually double dodge!"
>"actually, y-y-you only need to single dodge but in the right direction!!!"

PLAP TIME!
https://files.catbox.moe/yad6on.mp4

>>724863112
Both of those are correct. People really seethed when they couldn't beat a boss.

>>724862916
Well you're not getting that. He's deader than dead. Game lore makes an effort to tell you there's no possibility of him coming back. Miquella tried.

>>724863137
Damn...

>>724863161
>Miquella tried.
Don't bring this up to them its a point of contention in their headcanon for Miquella.

>>724862952
Only Godwyn's sould is dead. It's much less convoluted to bring him back to life instead of Radahn who we killed in both body and soul.

>>724861348
>Those Albinaurics have golden eyes because Miquella
Bestowed them grace
There's nothing that indicates the Albinaurics can't receive the guidance of grace
>We even potentially see an Albinauric modification take place during Latenna's quest when she brings a birthing droplet to her sister.
The birthing droplet serves to make Latenna's sister a mother for Albinaurics to be born. You are mixing things up throwing random shit at the wall to see what sticks
>>724862453
>The Black Knife Assassins don't work for the Two Fingers, but they know how to use the tracking arts, since they'd have to test if their Mirrorhelms even worked first.
>We literally see that Iji removes his Mirrorhelm (the item is picked up on his anvil a ways away)
Headcanon bullshit
>Shadows aren't Graceless creatures
Yes they are
>Plus, if trolls naturally have Grace
What the fuck are you talking about?
>Marika made the prosthetic eye to seal the abyssal serpent
>Grace alone wouldn't be sealing the abyssal serpent.
Nope, he made the prosthetic eye as a mean to actually have him accept grace and seal the abyssal serpent
>Mohg has Grace
No he does not
>Your claim for how Mohg and Morgott are cursed is bullshit, the Grandam has dialogue cursing them herself if she's attacked before the Divine Beast Dancing Lion boss fight.
Retard, The Grandam curse is an invocation to the Fell God itself, which is now represented by the twisted scadutree and causes those bound to him to grow thorns upon dying. This is why to embed the Omen curse within the Elden Ring you have to use the mending rune of the Fell God

>>724863152
>still won't post a clip
>still strawmanning
Anon, I've already said I was able to beat him 3 times pre-nerf across different builds. It's possible for someone (especially someone who does SL1 runs) to beat a boss, and still acknowledge that the boss is poorly designed.

>>724857349 (OP)
People literally thought it was some mod when it leaked because of how unbelievable and crap it looked
It was literally just the prime radahn zoomer tiktok meme

>>724862950
NTA but dodging the OG cross slash only worked if you were naked, otherwise you didn't have enough iframes or distance on your roll to dodge both attacks. The whole reason antspur shield cheese was invented was because you were under forced HP loss at regular intervals unless you brought a greatshield to tank hits.

>>724863235
It would have been too convoluted given he has an entire ending route dedicated to incorporating his soul into the elden ring.
>>724863280
I'm not the same anon, anon. I'm the anon saying to double dodge, the anon you linked to argued against me and said to dodge a direction.
You raged at him thinking he's me. I replied saying both are valid strats. you are arguing with a brick wall lol.

>>724863362
>still won't post a clip

>>724863325
Nah they thought it was clownshoes because some fags tried to angle it all on pederasty.
It was hilarious how much coping happened when the dlc launched and there was none of that. A bunch of fags just spent weeks larping about gay incest unprompted. Really embarrassing when you think about it.

>>724863362
>given he has an entire ending route
Godwyn queers don't know about this thoughbeit

>>724862453
>Shadows aren't Graceless creatures
They are
>>724862871
Nope, it shouldn't. Miquella's which was for Godwyn to die purely to kill the Erdtree, and he pivots to simply executing his plan outside of the golden hue of the Erdtree itself.
Miquella reaching the Realm of Shadow would make no sense in the first place if he could kill Godwyn

>>724857349 (OP)
I like him as a Super Boss, where it felt like I genuinely had to come up with a strategy and hold nothing back. But I like other bosses in the DLC better

>>724862656
That place is where the hornsent have killed a ton of people (the Lamenter's Gaol is even nearby) and near where the Uhl/Uld dynasty sent massive boats full of dead bodies to wash ashore or fall into underwater caverns. There's a Ghostflame Dragon there because the Jagged Peak, where all of Bayle's drakes roost, is nearby. The Branchsword talismans note that both colors (red and blue) relate to Deathbirds murdering people, so the Twinbird's depiction isn't playing into some phoenix theme, and the Twinbird depictions in Farum Azula imply that's where the Twinbird would have had particular influence, not the hornsent territories.

Also, what are you talking about regarding Divine Beast Warriors and gold effigies? Divine Beast Warriors do leave corpses, they just dissipate afterward like a ton of giant enemies do. Do you think that the random goat decorations in Enir-Ilim are effigies for Divine Beast Warriors?

The Gloam-Eyed Queen probably reigned in the Lands Between, not the Land of Shadow. Her Godskin Nobles seem to be emulating a style of dress that matches Miquella's robe in his memory flashback, and her stuff isn't actively censored from history like the things in the Land of Shadow are.

>>724863601
>The Gloam-Eyed Queen probably reigned in the Lands Between, not the Land of Shadow.
Her godskins use Metyr's glyph. The origin is in the land of shadow.

>>724862656
>There's an entire side of the shadowlands lore about the GEQ and her cult that isn't explored much
Yes it is

>>724863663
>Her godskins use Metyr's glyph. The origin is in the land of shadow.
No it isn't. The Godskins use Metyr's glyph because the Gloam Eyed Queen was the only legitimate Goddess that the Fingers actually chose. And as such her lore is largely in Farum Azula where she burned people with Ghostflame, and in Volcano Manor where the automatons bearing her sembiance still collect sacrifices

Why does every fucking thread devolves into tranny lore shite?

>>724863672
It has lore integration but none of it is the focus of the dlc so it remains in the periphery.
>>724863782
How do you they know her glyph if they are from the lands between? Use your head anon. The godskins were the system metyr had to collapse a culture and their god if they can't contact the gw.

>>724863857
There's a lolcow that hates lore discussion so anons intentionally discuss the lore as much as possible to trigger him.

>>724863362
Well then take a DS1 approach and make the DLC about traveling back in time to fight Godwyn, the Gloam Eyed Queen and all those mythological figures that we never see
Boom there it is! The idea for the next DLC!

rehashed boss and particle vomit aside it should have been the penultimate boss, with a fight against Miquella alone right after (either powered up for a hard challenge or a victory lap like true King Allant would have been fine)

>>724863997
This could have worked.

>>724862453
Shadows are 100% graceless creatures.
The Fingers create their own true human assassins as people who live in shadow their whole life so that they serve under their control, and after the Realm of Shadow was cut off the Two Fingers in the Lands Between adopted such methods, by hiring graceless people that lost their shadow as selected assassins named Confessors.
But Confessors had grace so they can have it back while Blaidd, or Jolan and Anna, have simply never received grace as they were born and lived in dark.
Light is the ability to control people

>>724862967
The guidance of Grace is a beam of light shown to the Tarnished, you're confusing that with having Grace. Albinaurics are regularly insulted as Graceless creatures by things like the Albinauric Pot description, they have negative 20% resistance to holy damage, and they have zero gold in their eyes (save for the ones Miquella has tried to help). The birthing droplet is something Latenna would have gotten from Miquella and Elphael, and she'd be searching for her sister along the migration path, otherwise her sister would have probably had the birthing droplet herself the entire time. We also know from the Nightfolk starting origin that Albinauric "upgrades" can be rolled out across generations to result in silver people who even now have red blood.

Iji's Mirrorhelm is the item that can be picked up on his anvil. The clear implication is that he took it off for the Black Knife Assassins to find him, not that he arbitrarily decided to craft a second one at the time. I already explained how Iji's visuals are super janky, much like those of another Ranni-aligned NPC right nearby. Shadows do have Grace, hence the high holy resistance. You can see sections of gold in the eyes of every troll in the game, so they do have Grace.

We have no reason to believe that Grace alone would seal the abyssal serpent. Marika created the prosthetic eye for the specific purpose of sealing the snake.

Mohg's intact eye is fully gold with a white ring to denote where his iris begins. Mohg also has 40% holy resistance. The Hornsent Grandam notes that she'll send the omen curse upon Marika's children, it's not a Scadutree or Fell God thing.

>>724863891
>so it remains in the periphery.
As it should be
>How do you they know her glyph if they are from the lands between?
Because the Realm of Shadow was the center of the Lands Between until Fundamentalism, which means long after the Eternal City fell and then Marika came to power.
>Use your head anon.
Take your own advice, monkeybrain

>>724864351
I think gracelessness being linked to albinaurics was their artificial nature. They couldn't add to the life and death cycle that fueled rune transfer. They can't be incorporated into the erdtree with their silver blood.

>>724857349 (OP)
I beat him with parry only it was a good way to finish off my eldensoulsbornesekiro journey I'm not playing a souls game until 2027/2028 enough is enough

>>724863112
I found as obscure as guy as possible for good measure, not someone who'd want to mod something to shill a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju7M1wb5frc

Something else to keep in mind is that the boss arena doesn't have level terrain, so sometimes the bodies can change the Tarnished and DLC Radahn's elevation, which is why an extra step or two to the left can really help.

>>724864351
>The guidance of Grace is a beam of light shown to the Tarnished
No, the guidance of Grace is mind control
>Albinaurics are regularly insulted as Graceless creatures by things like the Albinauric Pot description
Because they weren't born OF GRACE like people are born in the Lands Between, thus they don't have grace when they are born. Miquella baptized them and gave them grace, and then tasked them to influence Mogh and inflitrate Mohg's Palace
>The birthing droplet is something Latenna would have gotten from Miquella and Elphael, and she'd be searching for her sister along the migration path, otherwise her sister would have probably had the birthing droplet herself the entire time. We also know from the Nightfolk starting origin that Albinauric "upgrades" can be rolled out across generations to result in silver people who even now have red blood.
The birthing droplet is dew, which is used in the process of creating albinaurics. Albinaurics call it the birthing droplet because it's what it does to them
>Iji's Mirrorhelm is the item that can be picked up on his anvil.
Iji dies with his helmet on, which is specified to have never left Iji's head
>We have no reason to believe that Grace alone would seal the abyssal serpent.
Yes we have because grace directly contrasts the ability of the Abyssal serpent to be unleashed. It's time bending Light sealing the Dark. Likewise when the Eclipse came and the Eternal Darkness appeared Astel came out of the void and destroyed the Eternal City, only to be sealed underground.
>Mohg's intact eye is fully gold with a white ring to denote where his iris begins.
Mohg was charmed and he has Miquella's rune.
Royal Revenants also are resistant to holy. It has nothing to do with having grace.
>The Hornsent Grandam notes that she'll send the omen curse upon Marika's children, it's not a Scadutree or Fell God thing.
It is. It represents the Tarnishing of the Sun and Omen and Misbegotten are the results of growth without Order

>>724863237
I already replied to most of this and you're repeating yourself, but in regard to the Hornsent Grandam's curse, the Furnace Visage makes it clear that the hornsent hated and feared the Fire Giants. The Grandam wouldn't be calling upon the Fell God itself to curse Marika's kids. The Fell God has nothing to do with the Scadutree, and the remains of the Fire Giants we find on the Mountaintops have thorns because the briars sorcerers who fight alongside the Fire Monks participated in the executions of said Giants. You don't use a mending rune of the Fell God, you use a mending rune made out of the Dung Eater's Seedbed Curses, made out of the curse itself and sheer malice.

>>724863348
People dodged it in armor all the time. I just linked to a guy in Leda's set dodging it with a midroll.

>>724863663
>>724863782
The Black Flame sigil isn't Metyr, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen was never a god, only an Empyrean. She was a queen in the same way Rennala was, or in the case of having no specific nation, the way a demi-human queen is.

>>724865752
>video creator talks about it being a frame perfect roll in the comments
lmao, you sure showed em

>>724866096
>Gloam-Eyed Queen was never a god
No one said she was. Mohg was blessed by the formless mother without being a god. Messmer had the snake without being a god, Malenia was chosen by the rot god without being god.

>>724864338
Jolan and Anna aren't created by the Two Fingers, they're slaves raised to be soldiers. Also, Jolan can be given an Iris of Grace, which ruins your entire theory.

>>724865943
>No, the guidance of Grace is mind control
People wouldn't stop seeing grace when they ignore it if it was mind control.

>>724859178
There is no reason to think that Miquella couldn't charm Radahn.
But he probably loved him too much to do it. Miquella charms those that wish to harm him, or those that have anti-social tendencies or would be happier if they didn't need to think for themselves.
Radahn was neither of those. He was Miquella's ideal champion, that he wanted from a young age to be his Lord. Charming him would be unthinkable.
Miquella likely never knew Mohg existed before being abducted, or if he did, it was not on familial terms.

>>724858521
the cross slash had a terrible hitbox that did not line up with the actual attack, there was no way to intuit how to dodge it, on release everyone just got hit by it until dataminers figured out what was happening

>>724866376
>There is no reason to think that Miquella couldn't charm Radahn.
He doesn't and chooses to attack him to try and kill him instead. Ask yourself why he'd do that if he thought he could just mind control him if he wanted.

>>724857349 (OP)
>Final boss of DLC is a boss you fought earlier
>Not even one of those "rival" cases
Was already getting a sour taste towards the end of the DLC but this just killed it for me. Won't be replaying it either

>>724863161
It's a fucking made up fictional story, they can do whatever they want. Don't you have an imagination?

>>724859417
The DLC is too long and feels too linear, is the issue.
There is obviously an intended path that you're meant to follow, and if you stray from that too much it feels janky.
That is fine, but base Elden Ring is so good because you can basically do it in any order you please. So you have one format pulling you in one direction, and the other another way.

Bloodborne's Old Hunters is also a very long DLC, but it is a linear campaign in a linear game, so you don't feel the same awkward transition.
It is more of the same, but bigger. While the Shadow of the Erdtree feels like it has a different design philosophy to the base game.

>>724866570
But why get mad about what they chose to do since doing anything is okay? The devs chose to do something with him already.

>>724865943
If it was just a matter of not being born with Grace, Marika could have instantly given them Grace, or the Albinaurics could have it just from being born close enough to the Erdtree. The Albinaurics specifically don't mesh well with Grace. The birthing droplet Latenna intends to give her sister is implied to be something Latenna got from Elphael, otherwise the Albinauric community would already have it and have planned to give it to said sister at a certain time.

Iji's helm is clearly on his anvil, and the item isn't noted as a double. Iji and Pidia have janky shit going on with their quest endings, implying that corner of the map got fumbled by some guy on the staff.

Grace doesn't have any inherent contrast to the abyssal serpent, you're thinking of Dark Souls shit with people theorizing that Oolacile's light-based magic could warp time and that's why Repair Powder worked. The eclipse rituals and the Eternal Darkness sorcery are unrelated, Eternal Darkness is about a black hole.

Miquella's charm doesn't change people's eyes, and we can even see what his own attempt at an eye rune looks like courtesy of Leda's Rune in the DLC. It doesn't look anything like the Ordina Albinaurics eyes, and it doesn't resemble Mohg's eye either. Royal Revenants were made from people who used to be nobles, presumably from Altus, where they'd be born with significant Grace.

The sun was never tarnished, it's normal in Elden Ring's sky and you can get great views of it in Limgrave, Liurnia, and upper Rauh. The Misbegotten are attributed to the Crucible, not the Scadutree. The Crucible is related to the Erdtree, being the juvenile form of said tree.

>>724866240
This guy >>724863782 called the Gloam-Eyed Queen a "legitimate goddess", implying she ascended above being just an Empyrean. That never happened, the GEQ was just an Empyrean.

>>724866475
Freya talks about how Radahn would be happiest in an eternal war.
He probably wanted to go down fighting rather than submit to an Empyrean that couldn't earn his service through force.

>>724865946
>I already replied to most of this
And you are wrong
>but in regard to the Hornsent Grandam's curse, the Furnace Visage makes it clear that the hornsent hated and feared
No it makes it clear that the Hornsent are literally tormented in their sleep by the Fell Omen. This is because the Order they were bound to was betrayed by their elected Goddess Marika and deprived, their tree deprived of Order and now growing twisted and frail. In the same exact way the Omen are tormented by the wraiths that resonate within their horns, in search for a tree to be guided to, wraiths either end up as Revenants or inhabit Omen bodies, causing torment to the Omen in question.
>The Fell God has nothing to do with the Scadutree
Yes it does. Messmer army mocks openly the Hornsent. The Fell God was the God of Sun, represented as a blazing Sun Spell and as a medallion with petals, with its avatar in the Lands Between being a Sunflower
But the new visage Messmer forces creates shows it with horns in place of petals, showing how it was twisted into the Scadutree, and the Hornsent generated the aberrant spells with Scadutree connected thorn sorceries
>and the remains of the Fire Giants we find on the Mountaintops have thorns because the briars sorcerers
No, they do because they are bown to the Scadutree and upon death their bodies, now bound to a broken Order and to a crumbling Sacred Tree, grows thorns by itself.

The Golden Order would go on to adopt this as symbol of guilt which is why they imitate thorns with the prisoners and criminals using rusty metal.
The thorn sorcered and the exile soldiers developing thorns in Stormveil are also bound to the Old Order, as they are all the Ulcerated Tree Spirits and the reason the Ulcerated Tree Spirits are formed
>>724866254
>Jolan and Anna aren't created by the Two Fingers
Nobody said they were
>Also, Jolan can be given
An imitation
>>724866312
Most sane people don't see it anymore. And those who do are compelled to attack on sight.

>>724866135
No he doesn't you dipshit, he says it's a tight window, NOT frame perfect.

>>724866897
Okay, that has nothing to do with me. Don't kvetch at me about some other anon's post. You only linked me not me and that guy.

>>724867010
If it was mind control they couldn't choose to ignore it to have it stop appearing for them is what I'm saying.

>>724862871
>>724862896
The first water fight in souls history would have been great, sure

>>724866813
Because what they chose to do is the exact opposite of creative

>>724857349 (OP)
Was worse on release, the flashbang effects were fucking cancer. It’s a good thing they were toned down but I don’t think anything else should have been nerfed DESU, he’s not that bad. If anything makes the fight frustrating it’s the uneven terrain. Lore wise he’s kind of lame and the whole brotherlust plot was clearly GRRM faggotry. Miquella is unhinged enough for wanted to mindrape the world into “peace” did we really need him defying Mohg’s corpse to jam his big brother’s soul inside to use as a fucking machine? Yikes bro.

>>724866376
There's a Godskin Apostle, Blackflame Monks, and a Godslayer Greatsword in Radahn's Divine Tower. The Black Knife Assassins are Nox/Numen who probably come from Nokron, a place below and in contact with Radahn's region of Sellia. Radahn likely conspired in the Night of the Black Knives, so Miquella was targeted to be killed by him, hence the Black Knife Assassins trapped in the Ordina Evergaol. The fact that Miquella rushes out of the Gate of Divinity prematurely when Radahn's soul is further roused makes it clear that Miquella is trying to establish control with his charms, and he won't be able to maintain it.

>had his invasion of Leyndell foiled by Morgott, a fucking Omen
>couldn't beat Malenia
>lost against Tarnished
>got Mohg's body and assistance from Miquella, still lost to the Tarnished
>still worshipped as le wholesome chungus guy by leddit because of his horse (did you know he learned gravity to keep riding it???)

>>724866897
>If it was just a matter of not being born with Grace, Marika could have instantly given them Grace, or the Albinaurics could have it just from being born close enough to the Erdtree.
No you utter retard. There's no new births in the Lands Between. The Age of Plenty has ended, the Erdtree sap is treasured regalia. The WHOLE POINT of silver larval tears and albinaurics is new births
>The Albinaurics specifically don't mesh well with Grace.
More headcanon unsourced BULLSHIT
>Grace doesn't have any inherent contrast to the abyssal serpent,
Yes it does. Not only Nightreign has light cipher used to seal, but in Elden Ring the seals are specifically grace and bear runes because it's grace that seals dark. They are also brands associated with compelling duty and enforcing roles, and it's not a coincidence that Messmer stops being faithful to Marika shortly after removing the eye. Because the whole thematic of grace is controlling people. None of your unsourced bullshit headcanon can counter the actual game.

>>724866380
The cross-slash combo's hitboxes lined up with the animations. People complained that every sword slash seemed to have a hitbox that began a bit in front of the blade, but that's still true and a common thing for several bosses to emphasize speed.

>>724867132
They can't choose to ignore it until it stops. The Tarnished can't attack npcs in the roundtable hold now, can he? Why do you think those without grace can instead?

Not a single thread goes by without this retard spouting his schizoid headcanon.
Truly, the Perfidious Poopoo Pilferer of Souls threads.

>>724867325
>had his invasion of Leyndell foiled by Morgott, a fucking Omen
Design art isn't canon
>couldn't beat Malenia
He fucked her up so hard she needed to trigger a biological nuke and ran back with her tail between her legs to the haligtree
>lost against Tarnished
Assisted by an entire festival of the world's strongest warriors, assembled specifically for the purpose of defeating him, while 99% braindead from the scarlet rot, while also simultaneously holding back the stars, while making himself float to not hurt his favorite horse
>got Mohg's body and assistance from Miquella, still lost to the Tarnished
The Tarnished by this point is the most powerful being in the world. Defeated numerous gods, and a literal outer god

>>724867286
Godskins seem to be just drawn to any places with godly energy, like moths to a flame.
I don't think there's much deeper about their placement.

>>724867182
I like it as an origin story for how you end up with an undead race. It is shit that it only exists as that and we never get to see the aftermath. Its like giving an ending route to explain where demi-humans come from.
>>724867441
Most tarnished do just that. they simply ignore it and then marika stops showing them. Some never see it. None of them are compelled to action thru it.
People directly given grace thru marika eye tattoos were pretty much on a drug high but they weren't mind controlled and that only happened in the past not to anyone that is seeing the grace wisps marika sends out in the game.

>>724867534
>Not a single thread goes by without this retard spouting his schizoid headcanon.
He posts on rpg codex too, by far the most obnoxious and insufferable autist on the website

>>724867534
Its a goofy false flag attempt to ruin all lore discussion. If you know the lore you know the schizofag knows it too by what he gets wrong. Its weird seeing how he warps and evolves his argument over the thread into more insane nonsense, also funny seeing how anons have evolved to know how to silence him quickly.

These godwyn simp larps used to go on for thousands of posts across dozens of threads.

>>724867010
I'm not wrong, you're spewing baseless nonsense. The Omens are tormented in their sleep by horned entities called "elders", which in light of the DLC are probably hornsent spirits, and maybe related to the Lamenter. These "elders" are also depicted as maliciously, gleefully grinning on the Omensmirk Mask, so they're intentionally tormenting the Omens, not aimless looking for a tree. The Hornsent with the Falxes doesn't even treat the Scadutree like it's something his people care about, he just casually calls it a "misshapen tree of umbra." The hornsent themselves aren't tormented in their sleep -- heck, the Hornsent Grandam herself seems to eventually sleep pretty well.

The Fell God is, at most, associated with Jupiter -- the torso eye of the Fire Giant resembles the storms on Jupiter's south pole. There are zero sunflowers on the Mountaintops, you're talking out of your ass with that flower theory. Heck, the cape on the skeleton knights, implied to have fought for the Sun Realm, depicts the sun as yellow/golden to boot, not the color of the GIant's Flame.

The hornsent don't use Scadutree thorn sorceries, those were invented by Messmer's own forces after recognizing that Marika betrayed them. The Fire Giants were executed by briars sorcerers, and the Fire Monks have even created smaller versions of those spears to decorate their camps and serve as torches just before the Fire Giant's fog gate.

The thorn sorcerers were punished with literal thorns, akin to the prisoners tortured with the Guilty Hood. The Exile Soldiers appear to be cursed by Death Blight/Deathroot, not the Scadutree. Heck, the Exile Soldiers didn't even live in the central Lands Between, why would they be bound to some separate Scadutree order? We also find Ulcerated Tree Spirits at the Haligtree, where the Scarlet Rot has turned them Putrid, so they're clearly not related to some "Old Order." Your ass implied Jolan & Anna are Finger-made, and the prosthetic eye is an "imitation" too!

>>724867786
>Most tarnished do just that. they simply ignore it and then marika stops showing them.
No they don't, at most they lose it after deaths
>Some never see it.
The whole point is that power being weak now and disappearing for most. It still is a mind control power, with all the Two Fingers spells descriptions being direct orders of anyone in the Lands Between to attack the Tarnished

>>724868224
Can you explain this >>724867352

>>724867534
He makes you seethe because he is correct
>>724867973
Quit samefagging

(You)

>>724867352
Melina says that births continue when trying to dissuade the Tarnished from visiting the Three Fingers. You're thinking of a scrapped line from the Turtle Neck Meat's Network Test description. Albinaurics don't mesh with Grace at all, that's why the Albinauric Pot prevents people from using their flasks while the effect is active. Nightreign is specified as non-canon by From Software itself, and Grace doesn't seal the dark. Heck, the Iris of Occultation is used to cut off the victim's access to light! Controlling people is done by the "fates" of the stars and the Scarlet Rot's cordyceps elements, hence Millicent being crazed as a Caelid invader and later getting her clarity and autonomy of mind increasingly back after applying the needle.

Enemies with your picture's type of golden eyes are just enemies with more runes than average. Having Grace and trying to process runes are different, hence why even powerful Tarnished aren't depicted with Grace in their eyes and literal space aliens have runes too.

>>724868756
>Nightreign is specified as non-canon
Its canon but not relevant to Elden Ring's narrative. It isn't a direct prequel or sequel but takes place in the same larger world. The game is named Elden Ring: Nightreign.

>>724862775
The problem is people like you for some reason get very triggered at others who wanted Godwyn as the focus of the DLC.
It's stranger for you to be angered, confused, or combative towards a narrative interpretation than others are for assuming a narrative direction and being let down by it.

If any anons are smart, they'll notice this same phenomena happened with Game of Thrones. Seems George has a curse upon his works.

>>724868956
I'm a huge Godwyn fan and his death knights were one of the coolest parts of the dlc for me. Knowing his truest followers already accepted his new role as death god and stayed loyal to him was kino. Getting to wear their gear and use their op af spell was amazing for me.

>>724868879
Anything new is non-canon, the only canon things might be stuff from before the Shattering that gets mentioned in an aside, and so far there has actually been zero cases of that.

>>724868224
>The thorn sorcerers were punished with literal thorns, akin to the prisoners tortured with the Guilty Hood.
No they weren't, they grew them through their blood while tortured, same for the dying Fire Giants
>The Exile Soldiers appear to be cursed by Death Blight/Deathroot, not the Scadutree
No they aren't
>Heck, the Exile Soldiers didn't even live in the central Lands Between, why would they be bound to some separate Scadutree order?
You have no clue of the history of Stormveil
>We also find Ulcerated Tree Spirits at the Haligtree, where the Scarlet Rot has turned them Putrid, so they're clearly not related to some "Old Order."
Yes they are. The Haligtree is a burial site for Banished Knights too
>Your ass implied Jolan & Anna are Finger-made, and the prosthetic eye is an "imitation" too!
Yes and? Neither can be imbued with actual grace and Jolan will react to seeing either Darkness or Grace by confirming that they were raises in Darkness to avoid becoming controlled, proving I'm correct
>The Omens are tormented in their sleep by horned entities called "elders", which in light of the DLC are probably hornsent spirits
No, they are wraiths, which they also spit
>The Hornsent just casually calls it a "misshapen tree of umbra."
Because the Scadutree replaced their Crossed Tree, with special care in "misshapen" that highlights how he recognizes it as deformed. And it's hilarious that you are too low IQ to realize that this also proves you wrong here
>Those were invented by Messmer's own forces
Nope
>The image of the misshapen Scadutree
This is the Hornsent seeing their Crossed Tree turn into the Scadutree and realize their betrayal
>The Fell God is, at most, associated with Jupiter
No it's associated with the Sun, and depicted as a Sun in 3 instances. On the Dung Eater Chest, with his spell and with his avatar. The old Demigods also use sun imagery, with description of the Eclipse and Eternal Darkness (a Black Moon) that followed.

>>724869484
>the only canon things might be stuff from before the Shattering that gets mentioned in an aside
Like the nox experiments to create nightlords that nightreign is about.

>>724867735
They're after the fragments of the Rune of Death, even possible fragments like the cursemark on Ranni's body, and they're working with Rykard, who worked with Ranni for the Night of the Black Knives. Also, once you open the shortcut in the Divine Tower of Caelid, it's possible to naturally get the Redmane soldiers and the Blackflame Monks near each other, and they won't aggro on each other or have any kind of friendly fire effect. They're allies, and this is the same game where even the troll trying to enter Limgrave near the broken bridge between Limgrave and Liurnia will aggro on the Liurnian troops if kited up the road.

>>724861348
>Radahn wasn't at his best when facing Morgott, he wasn't fully grown, he didn't have his iconic swords, he didn't have enough skill with gravity magic to bring his horse along, etc.
Cope.
He took a swing at the champ and missed.
Leyndell was never breached, not by Malenia, not by Radahn. Morgott earned his right to kingship.

Lore and worldbuilding are a joke. This fight solidifies that Fromsoft is incapable of evolving past their jank fest simple formula.

>>724869821
>He took a swing at the champ and missed.
this is how lore discussion should be framed

>>724868756
>Melina says that births continue
No they don't
They will in the new Order
>Nightreign is specified as non-canon
Wrong
>Heck, the Iris of Occultation is used to cut off the victim's access to light!
No, it cuts them off the Order and causes them to lose their link to it, see Queelign
>Enemies with your picture's type of golden eyes are just enemies with more runes than average.
Nope, they have grace
>hence why even powerful Tarnished aren't depicted with Grace in their eyes
They aren't depicted with grace in their eyes because they were graceless in death and are recognized immediately as once Tarnished.

>>724870326
>No they don't
She brings it up when pleading not to go further toward the FF. She could be being intentionally vague and talking about deer and shit though.

>>724868475
See >>724868756

You're posting Scum Mage Infa's Stormveil Sun Realm image again, you're indeed the same schizo. The briars sorcerers had their eyes injured by briars first, and it was only then that they discovered the "blood star" and invented their sorceries. Briars of Sin and Briars of Punishment's item descriptions say as much. The briars sorcerers manifest tons of briars to impale people, and that's what they did to the Fire Giants. The Fire Giant boss isn't killed through such means, and he has nothing to do with briars and none of his Remembrance stuff relates to briars.

Stormveil was built by Altus refugees (per the "echo" of Marika at the Grand Lift of Dectus), so the Exile Soldiers and Banished Knights aren't from the central Lands Between. They were probably from a collection of small nations, including the Sun Realm, which is likely either Leyndell or was where Leyndell now stands. The Banished Knights are just chasing power they don't properly understand, hence jumping for Placidusax's risky and dangerous Dragon Communion crud and likely trying to curry favor with the hornsent too, hence the clusterfuck ultra-long lions that are more fur than flesh on the Banished Knight Shields, carpets, tapestries, the Commander's Standard, etc. They don't even have one sun-themed incantation to show for it, no work toward any godhood rituals, and only Niall knows any storm stuff beyond wind. Even then, the frostbite might be a side effect of the local weather while the lightning is from Leyndell's Dragon Cult, since the knights at Castle Sol will use Two Fingers incantations to heal, implying some mingling with the Golden Order.

Elphael has no BK presence. The Iris of Grace can activate Great Runes and Messmer's prosthetic eye gives him holy resistance, so you're spouting nonsense. Jolan & Anna were raised in darkness to abuse them and break their spirits, not to make them resistant to magical control. Anna is even drugged by a Starlight Shards potion!

Man seeks a good time, but he is not a hedonist. He seeks love! He just doesn’t know where to look. He looks under the beds of whores and in the golden trunk of a magic tree. He should look to nature! Gentle aquatic animals have all the answers!

>>724870653
>The briars sorcerers had their eyes injured by briars first
No they didn't, quit making shit up

>>724870674
Why is old asmongold pushing that ugly woman?

>>724857349 (OP)
Lorefags hate it because they didn't get their schizo headcanon theories confirmed or a "somehow Godwyn the Golden returned" boss battle

>>724862871
GRRM had nothing to do with SotE

>>724857349 (OP)
The very poster child of "mommy, when is it my turn to play?"

>>724869784
Heolstor is entirely unrelated to the Nox though.

>>724869716
Those things can manifest as wraiths, but they're not some "one-size-fits-all" spirits. The Scadutree didn't replace any crossed tree, and the imagery on the shield you posted earlier doesn't even match any hornsent artistry. The hornsent had winding native trees and were trying to make messed-up people trees to augment Enir-Ilim. They had no "crossed tree" as an Erdtree equivalent. The Falxes Hornsent isn't even audibly bothered when describing the Scadutree, so he doesn't see it as some desecrated holy tree of the hornsent people. That guy is just talking shit to Messmer and Messmer's culture. Messmer's forces invented the DLC thorns sorceries, that's why the body of one of Messmer's troops has the Impenetrable Thorns sorcery.

The Dung Eater's armor isn't depicting the Fell God, the eclipse isn't related to the Fire Giants, and Eternal Darkness is literally a black hole, we can see the dang spell and the black core warps the blue light around it.

>>724870653
>Stormveil was built by Altus refugees (per the "echo" of Marika at the Grand Lift of Dectus)
This is the most idiotic thing I ever read
Stormveil has an history way before the Golden Order. It was were Godfrey defeated Serosh and was ever since the place where they formed an alliance
Also the echo of Marika at the Grand Lift is about the formation of the Erdtree Sentinels and Godfrey and his army joining Marika, which is why it is near statues of the Erdtree Sentinels.
The "Fringes" it is talking to is indeed Mountaintops, were most Knights were Banished, from Stormveil to Mountaintops (to where the lift leads to). This is why half Banished Knights are in the Mountaintops

>>724871036
KEK true. people shit on shieldpokers or parry fags but they actually get to play the game

>>724870326
Melina's describing the world as it already is, not a world the Tarnished can create, when trying to dissuade the Tarnished from the Frenzied Flame. The Iris of Occultation's description notes that it cuts people off from all forms of light, and being able to work on Queelign means that his own Grace doesn't inherently repel shadow at all. You said that Jolan was a being a total darkness and Grace shouldn't work on her, but the Iris of Grace does work on her, so your theory doesn't work out. Your excuse regarding the Tarnished and Grace ignores that they're brought back to life and then load up on fucktons of runes.

>>724871135
>The Scadutree didn't replace any crossed tree
Yes it did
>and the imagery on the shield you posted earlier doesn't even match any hornsent artistry.
Of course it is Sun Realm artistry
>The hornsent had winding native trees and were trying to make messed-up people trees to augment Enir-Ilim.
No they weren't, Enir-Ilim isn't a Sacred Tree and all trees in Enir-Ilim were created way before.
The only thing the Hornsent created was the Gate of Divinity, and you can tell because it's THEIR bodies
>They had no "crossed tree" as an Erdtree equivalent. The Falxes Hornsent isn't even audibly bothered when describing the Scadutree, so he doesn't see it as some desecrated holy tree of the hornsent people.
He sees it for the twisted abomination that replaced their tree, because that's what it is. The Crossed Tree was the previous Tree for a very long time beyond the Hornsent settoing under Enir-Ilim
>The Dung Eater's armor isn't depicting the Fell God
Yes it is
>the eclipse isn't related to the Fire Giants
It is
>and Eternal Darkness is literally a black hole
It's a Black Moon sucked in the void, thus the actual Black Moon disappearing
>Heolstor is entirely unrelated to the Nox though.
It isn't, he was twisted in Noklateo, which is how it is now called the old Eternal City, with its map matching 1:1 the collapsed side of Leyndell

>>724870729
Read it and weep, bitch:

>The guilty, their eyes gouged by thorns, lived in eternal darkness. There, they discovered the blood star.

The sorceries are fueled by blood, hence why the Staff of the Guilty involves trying to make "red Glintstone" from killing an animal.

>>724871204
There's a painting in Stormveil Castle of the Stormhill before Stormveil ever existed. Limgrave was a wild frontier and sparsely populated before Marika began banishing people there. Godfrey already had Serosh by the time Marika founded her order up north. The statues at the Grand Lift of Dectus don't even match what Tree Sentinels look like, and she's specifically telling people to join the Golden Order or be banished to the frontiers where they'll be cut off from mainstream civilization. The Japanese script even uses the same kanji used in the Japanese name for the Banished Knights. Also, why the fuck would Marika be telling people in northern Liurnia, the cutoff point for any Altus influence, that she's going to boot their asses across the entirely of Altus in the opposite direction? She'd have to even drag these people, per your theory, across all of Liurnia first!

>>724871579
>their eyes gouged by thorns
Thorns they created themselves, as the spell does. It has nothing to do with any punishment. Their injured body causes those branches to form
>The sorceries are fueled by blood, hence why the Staff of the Guilty involves trying to make "red Glintstone" from killing an animal.
More made up bullshit nonsense. The staff of guilty is described as Blood Sapling and is a smaller version of the giant thorns, proving once again they LITERALLY form those thorns with their own blood
>A heretical staff fashioned from a smoldering, withered sapling that turns the blood of sacrifices pierced by it into glintstone. Similar to hex magic.

What was she hoping to achieve as a mini version of herself? Cracks me up that we just foil her plans by picking her up and taking her along with us. The sheer petulance in her voice after being found out is utterly adorable.

>>724857349 (OP)
The laser beams were really annoying and taking chip damage like that is basically never fun. Medium strength strikes that take ~1/3 of your health are the sweet spot. Chip damage or poison bosses are second only to one-shot-kill-super-move bosses (malenia) in terms of being annoying to fight.

>>724871896
>There's a painting in Stormveil Castle of the Stormhill before Stormveil ever existed.
Completely false but I guess that's ok. Just more nonsensical bullshit to add to the pile

>>724872032
They hadn't met the blood star yet dipshit, they couldn't create the thorns themselves at the time. Plus, the Marais family's treatment of prisoners shows that the Golden Order was already using thorns to punish people who were deemed criminals. The Staff of the Guilty's staff portion is from a random-ass tree, hence why it's not a solid, mystical red like their sorcery briars.

>>724871896
Meds now

>>724872187
tranny safe horny character

>anons seriously still arguing lore for this game
Please give it a rest guys. Even the lore youtubers know that elden ring is a dead end with nothing to talk about. SoTET was a narrative brick wall and elden ring 2 will be almost completely unrelated or barely tangentially related just like all the dark souls sequels before it. It's over.

>>724872251
Here, fool.

>>724872331
That's an item painting depicting what a Warhawk saw long after Stormveil was built.

>>724872187
literally just sneak past unnoticed

>>724872406
It's a well known attention whore who has been doing it across several souls spaces. He doesn't have a life.

>>724872406
Lore essayfag is just a retard who spews nonsense. Ignore his threads entirely or just make fun of it I don't care.

>>724871560
The Scadutree was made by Marika herself, per the DLC Story Trailer's dialogue from Leda recounting what Miquella had learned. The crossed tree doesn't even match the Scadutree, which has one entirely straight trunk and another that winds around it. That shield doesn't relate to the Sun Realm either, only a single shield does.

Look at the trees in Enir-Ilim itself you bozo. They have light-gold leaves and people agonizingly fused with the wood. Enir-Ilim is also made out of people, as revealed by the damaged pillars and staircases returning to their raw materials. Hornsent were mixed in with the tortured Shamans to make the final mystical mixture to make the Gate of Divinity function, and some bodies in the boss arena and the DLC Story Trailer lack horns.

The Falx Hornsent couldn't give two shits about the Scadutree, mentioning it doesn't fill him with pain or additional rage. The Dung Eater's armor only depicts the Dung Eater's own crude attempt to imagine his Great Rune, and the eclipse relates to Castle Sol and the Wandering Mausoleums. The Fire Giants have absolutely no cultural role with that whatsoever. At most they were pals with Astrologers, who themselves never tried to eclipse anything. Eternal Darkness isn't a black moon, it's a literal void. Also, the destroyed Eternal City is at the Deeproot Depths, but the black moon is most notably worshiped by Nokstella. It either was a literal moon in the sky and the Nox couldn't see it post-banishment or it was a Nokstella-specific construct. Heolstor was found by the Night after a random battle, and Noklateo doesn't even face in the same direction as Leyndell, not to mention it has its own walls that wouldn't match.

>>724872406
ranni is my cute wife and that's all the lore I need

>>724872406
There is a greater chance of DS4 than that of ER2.

I'm personally holding out for a remaster of DS2.

>>724872260
>They hadn't met the blood star yet dipshit, they couldn't create the thorns themselves at the time
Yes they could
Without grace, in the Eternal Darkness, they saw the Blood Star because they are bound to the cursed Scadutree.
Why do you think they grew thorns that crushed their eyes specifically? Because those thorns were created by their grace which bound them to the scadutree, and when they torture themselves their blood becomes red glintstone due to it, not the other way around
>Plus, the Marais family's treatment of prisoners shows that the Golden Order was already using thorns to punish people who were deemed criminals
Again RETARD, it's the other way around. The Golden Order in its infancy saw that all the Old Order enemies they faced grew thorns with their blood and mutated into misshapen thorned bodies, so they imitated it "artificially" with rusted metal wires as form of punishment. Of course seeing your enemies turn into empales thorn bodies from the inside out (as it is shown) created a cultural meme around that.
>The Staff of the Guilty's staff portion is from a random-ass tree
No it's not, it's a blood sapling, which also has the same shape as the dropped runes when the player dies, because the player is instead bound to the Golden Order and not the Scadutree.
The Staff of the Guilty is described as smoldering and withering because it is to the Scadutree what Sacrificial Twigs are to the Erdtree

>>724857349 (OP)
He is a visual mess and really uncool in motion. I think the only cool looking attack its his starting lunge. I seriously wonder what the fuck were they thinking when they animated his walk cycle, looks so lame.

from soft has been producing nothing but Ls after elden ring

>>724873381
Why would the briars sorcerers not have Grace? Criminals in the Lands Between weren't stripped of their Grace. They had eye damage, but that doesn't mean their Grace was lost with it, Grace just has a clear visual signifier in the eyes. Also, Alberich is a Tarnished who created red Glintstone, which destroys your entire theory of a different order and its red Grace causing the briars and the red Glintstone.

Your attached image shows a mystical projection of Erdtree roots reaching up at the runes swirling in the air. That's not depicting someone erupt in impaling thorns from the inside out. The thing in your image is even the result of someone from Marika's order being killed.

The Staff of the Guilty is not a blood sapling and it's not copying the "runestain" model. The Staff of the Guilty is made from a withered tree, and the smouldering part comes from the literal fire associated with the briars sorcerers' handlers, the Fire Monks, and likely faint Blood Flame elements, since the blood star is implied to be the Formless Mother.

>>724873227
it seemed more to me that either the top of enir ilim was built rushed or marika walked through the gate prematurely. I imagine the process is that the bodies are the foundation of the tower and masons do brickwork over it. the gate itself is notably uneven.

>>724873227
>The Scadutree was made by Marika herself
Nope
>per the DLC Story Trailer's dialogue from Leda recounting what Miquella had learned.
You don't understand Elden Ring or that trailer
>The crossed tree doesn't even match the Scadutree
Yes it does
>which has one entirely straight trunk and another that winds around it.
This is false
>That shield doesn't relate to the Sun Realm either
Yes it does, and is sold by a merchant that has other items related to the DLC
>Look at the trees in Enir-Ilim itself you bozo. They have light-gold leaves and people agonizingly fused with the wood.
None of which were created by the Hornsent. I guess you are too stupid to understand that, so I'll spell it out for you then. The Hornsent are not responsible for Enir-Ilim.
The Hornsent created the settlement under it and the Gate of Divinity, and the game shows a massive technological gap between the crude Gate of Divinity and the artistry with which Enir-Ilim was created.
Enir-Ilim, all the people embedded in it and all the trees were made long before the Hornsent, by the Sun Realm/fallen Civilization of Rauh
The Hornsent simply settled in the ruins of a more advanced civilization.
You can directly tell the stark difference between the two structures, and that Enir-Ilim did not have the Gate of Divinity until Marika told them to create it with what appear in the trailer as freshly slain bodies
>The Falx Hornsent couldn't give two shits about the Scadutree
Which I again proved to be confirmation. The Hornsent aren't particularly attached to the Crossed Tree. But realized their betrayal seeing their misshapen tree. The Crossed Tree was turned into the Scadutree and that affected them. The Lamenter pathband the torment of the Hornsent derives from it. I never implied they worshipped the tree itself, but It did represent their betrayal

>>724857349 (OP)
>fight him at level 350 NG
>die like 200 times
In comparison it took me two tries to beat Gael in DS3
Final bosses are supposed to be a victory lap, not a borderline impossible wall between you and the end of the game.

>>724857349 (OP)
I think it's the only Fromsoftware boss to just make me flat out give up on finishing.

>>724857410
>combofags MASSIVELY coping
This is basically ninja gaiden gameplay or any other button smasher with QuickTime events

>>724872584
This picture doesn't exist in game retard. It's a concept art before they plastered the second layer and player model to first create the foreground

>>724873691
*after dark souls first half

>>724857437
>retroactively cheapens the OG Radanh fight,
Yeah, Radahn was a big highlight of Elden Ring and already had a great story and mechanical payoff. Bringing him back for the DLC with more bullshit gimmicks just feels uninspired and doesn't tie back into anything that the core game set up narratively.

>>724861582
Good post.

>>724874165
No its like other places where mass sacrifices to try to become god happen like in the nox cities. The corpses building the city are the remains of failed sacrifices.
The hornsent are a depraved people that could never attain godhood. Their culture shows a rise of elegance while worshipping their divine beasts and living in harmony but they have their own fall from grace independent of marika when they fail to reach godhood and begin to backslide into depravity to try and find a loophole method in.
The nox failure to create a godhead created the Nightreign game where the inhumanity of the nox permeates the night and the way to avert the terror is to trick the night god into learning the value in life and death while it sleeps. The methods in which the debased races fail to attain godhood is sourced in an inability to appreciate the greater cycle that fuels reality.

>>724873953
>Why would the briars sorcerers not have Grace?
Because their eyes were ripped out, retard
>They had eye damage, but that doesn't mean their Grace was lost with it,
Yes it does retard
>Grace just has a clear visual signifier in the eyes.
No, grace is hosted in the eye.
Fucking moron
Vyke frees himself from control by ripping his eye off.
Those without grace have their eyes faded and can be controlled by putting an iris or seal with grace in them.
Grace is in the eyes

>>724870674
Godwyn defeated the ancient dragons. He wouldn't have a fuckin fish tail, retard.

>>724874325
Your ass is obviously trolling or entirely insane if you're ignoring the literal DLC Story Trailer's extremely clear dialogue and can't even recognize what the frickin' Scadutree looks like despite staring at it for hours. Now you think the hornsent didn't even create the trees in Enir-Ilim? Belurat and Enir-Ilim have fucktons in common, there's even an elevator running up through Enir-Ilim from Belurat, they were clearly built together.

The Gate of Divinity is "crude" because they couldn't transmute it like they transmuted the rest of the tower, a la Rennala turning "sweetings" into tombstones during her boss fight.

The hornsent go all-in on their religious stuff, so why would the Falx Hornsent not particularly care about a hornsent-specific Erdtree? The guy is steeped in mega grudges and his mask implies he's a Bonny Village Greater Potentate, one of the most signifcant people in the hornsent's fucked-up culture and its fucked-up deeds. The dude was integral to building the Gate of Divinity.

The Lamenter was likely jailed long before the hornsent civilization fell, because they tossed him in there themselves in a prison they carved out. Marika would have locked him in Enir-Ilim itself out of spite toward the hornsent in general.

>>724874964
Quick, provide any in game asset showing Godwyn having feet or full legs
The legs are all in your mind, they never existed

Midra, rellana, snake twink, emo sunflower, death knight, bayle, m. bison on an iron boar, and finger mommy are all better.

Regardless elden ring is shit aside from the light great swords, frenzied flame, and briar sorceries.

>>724875039
>The Lamenter was likely jailed long before the hornsent civilization fell
The Lamenters came about during the hornsent fall. When they started testing their own people was when their own goodness was gone. Before trying that with pots the hornsent holy elite were normal warriors that evoked divine animals while wearing cosplay and then the highest elite were the duo twins that house a holy spirit. You can see how the potting idea arises from a fusion of their 2 normal elite holy class of warrior initially and the lamenter is the failure. The lamenters laughing cry is a parody of the hornsent endeavor but they don't listen because they are depraved.

>>724875247
>frenzied flame,
>had a chance to introduce some actually unique new FF spell in the DLC
>did unendurable frenzy but worse

Radahn AGAIN was just lame and I'm not even a lorehead. He feels too similar to a lot of the big enemies/bosses, a fat fuck with wide sweeps and stomps like Godfrey and then some clone shit (?) in phase 2 with a bunch of explosions tacked on. People liked Radahn I guess but the "le in his prime!!!" shit was so fucking cringe and I really think they changed it to him because of that which is even worse and explains how tacked-on it felt with that awful ending 'cutscene'.
I swear if Malenia forma de Rot Goddess with her brother on her back had walked through that arch the shitter-shattering would have been 10 times worse and would have made way more sense both in-game and for players, as she was the most infamous basegame boss.
Anyway I just spammed blind spot, Backhand Blades OP.

>>724874547
It is in the castle. Also, how the fuck would they be "Banished" Knights if most of them are still in the same castle and region they were already living in? They'd be banished from nothing.

>>724861582
>endless, non stop aoe attacks with nearly pinpoint tracking
YEAH like the fucking DS2 turtle knights that have a move for them to counter circle-strafing BUT they always track you perfectly anyway so what's the point? Like PCR has a bunch of stomps and sweeps why the fuck do all his attacks have him spinning like a beyblade so all you can do is dodge 5 times in a row.

>>724861582
Yeah, for all the hype Messmer had in the trailer I feel like the actual DLC treats him as pretty throwaway

>>724857410
Based but also should have used a +8 sacred Black Steel Greatshield instead of the fingerprint shield to completely negate the holy damage instead of the Fingerprint Shield letting chips through

>>724874921
Grace isn't hosted in the eye, Grace is just blatantly noticeable in the eye. Vyke isn't freed from control, he's still a schizo who attacks on sight in his Evergaol, and some people's eyes fall out after they've been brutalized by the Frenzied Flame, a different power than Grace. Vyke also had a Three Fingers fingerprint directly on his eye.

>>724875039
>the literal DLC Story Trailer's extremely clear dialogue
The DLC says that Marika created Gold and Shadow
>can't even recognize what the frickin' Scadutree looks like
It looks like the Crossed Tree that then collapsed and grew deformed
>Now you think the hornsent didn't even create the trees in Enir-Ilim?
And that's correct
>they were clearly built together.
No they weren't
>The Gate of Divinity is "crude" because they couldn't transmute it like they transmuted the rest of the tower
Headcanon bullshit
>so why would the Falx Hornsent not particularly care about a hornsent-specific Erdtree?
There's no "hornsent specific Erdtree".
The worship of Sacred Trees is not part of Hornsent Culture. That's the Ancient Dynasty, from which the Nox and the Sun Realm derive, this is even shown with the Dynast having statues dropping a map of the cosmos in favour of a tablet with a Tree on it.

Rauh is itself the origin of the Mother of all Crucibles, the Hornsent simply ape what came from that civilization, and their very horns come from being subject to Crucible currents, (which is why they worship the Spira). To them the White Tower is the object of worship, they do not understand the connection to the Sacred Trees the people of the Lands Between have. Those who come to realize the source of their mutation are banished and carry the idle face of the Fell God

>>724875895
Messmer's oddly irrelevant to the larger plot of the Land of Shadow even though he's one of the reasons it's a war-torn shithole, he's kind of Elden Ring's answer to Pontiff Sulyvahn in that regard where he's crucially important to stuff happening as Marika's main agent in a pointless forever-war but the game doesn't really dwell on him much

>>724861774
what do you mean?
you have to spec for this, you still need to be mindful of stamina management and understand the enemy's rhythms well enough to know when to put the shield down or roll away instead of tanking the hit etc., it doesn't work with all enemies or bosses, there are pros and cons, tradeoffs
the game presents you with a challenge and gives you different tools to beat it. this is one

>>724876015
Shut the fuck up retard. The lore is complete asinine, retconned dogshit. It's also badly translated to boot. The whole thing is reshuffled trash made to fit their deadline.
Their only games with coherent lore are DES, DS1, BB, Sekiro, and AC6.

>>724876190
>DS3 doesn't have coherent lore
Guy who believes Gwyn was benevolent in DS1

>>724876015
>Grace isn't hosted in the eye,
Yes it is
>Vyke isn't freed from control
Yes he is, and jailed himself in a gaol for it
>and some people's eyes fall out after they've been brutalized by the Frenzied Flame,
Replaced by flaming eyes that comoletely control them. The very act of offering their eyes to Hyetta is done by Frenzied Flame cultists to give grace to a maiden who had lost it and was corrupted
>Ah, is that you over there? I have gleaned something very important indeed, thanks to you. The reason why it was eyes I had to eat. The distant light is far and frail. So faint it can't be seen by the naked eye. But with everyone's eyes together, it appears. Finally, it all makes sense. I am certain now, I will become a finger maiden.

And continues

Oh, it burns... My eyes, my eyes, they're melting... Aaargh!

Thank... thank you... I have touched them.
The words of the Three Fingers.
As your maiden, allow me to divine them.

"All that there is came from the One Great.
Then came fractures,
and births,
and souls.

But the Greater Will made a mistake.
Torment, despair, affliction...
every sin, every curse.
Every one, born of the mistake.

And so, what was borrowed must be returned.
Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame.
Until all is One again."


Those who gave me grapes howled without words.
Saying they wished they were never born.

Become their lord.
Take their torment, despair.
Their affliction.
Every sin, every curse.
And melt it all away. As the Lord of Chaos.

No more fractures...no more birth... (sighs)
> a different power than Grace.
No, it's a corruption of Grace, created in the same way by the Three Fingers as the Two Fingers create any kind of Grace.

>>724876061
Marika ushered in the Erdtree and the Scadutree. The Scadutree wasn't some hornsent "crossed tree" or Fire Giant tree before her. The Scadutree clearly has a straight, central trunk with not one sign of having previously been winding, so how on earth could it be some hypothetical giant "crossed tree"? The hornsent also like tree designs even in Belurat, so that isn't limited to Enir-Ilim.

We don't even know if the Sun Realm worshiped trees, we just know that they liked sun imagery.

>>724876073
>Messmer's oddly irrelevant to the larger plot
He isn't though. Only his kindling can burn the Shadow Marika created. He represents all the sins of Marika, and is the gatekeeper of the invocations and curses directed to them.
>>724876649
>The Scadutree clearly has a straight, central trunk with not one sign of having previously
Except it isn't and you can clearly see it's two huge trunks with one wrapped around the other

>>724876554
You haven't looked into anything about Grace at all. Vyke didn't put himself in the Evergaol; if he did, he'd just tell someone as much if they showed up, or write a note outside. Also, how would Vyke be freed by losing an eye if the Frenzied Flame would just "replace" it with a flame eye to control him instead? Eyes burned by the Frenzied Flame don't give warped Grace, just the Frenzied Flame itself, and Hyetta is a demon pretending to be a normal person anyway.

>>724877025
It's a straight trunk (the one leaking sap) with a winding trunk that goes over the front, wraps around the back, wraps around the side, and finally sends some branches to wrap around the front. The winding tree moves in a counterclockwise direction, the straight tree is in the center. Even if you're mistaking the bottom of the map's depiction of the Scadutree, you can look at the actual Scadutree in the game.

>>724857437
>Retroactively cheapens the OG fight
Disagree, because "prime Radahn" surprisingly does little to indicate his superiority over his rotted self especially in phase one where he'd have the chance to use even crazier gravity techniques.

>>724877490
Phase one with Radahn (forma de la no backpack) is oddly disappointing for something that's supposed to represent Radahn at his absolute peak of strength, hell the most exciting thing about it is that he has bloodflame attacks and that's because he's piloting Mohg's corpse

>>724862916
He would just be Nameless King.
Like that's almost an intentional thing that Godwyn is dead because they can just unload all the classic lightning miracles onto a boss arctype without having to put it in game.

>>724861774
Souls games have always been about abusing the mechanics to get easy wins. There's just a new generation of gamers who don't realize that

>>724859529
>actual thinking to dodge aoes
you just roll or block all the ones in phase 2 except for the desperation attack.

>>724863161
I'd say it's even super sketchy if Fia's ending would bring him back or kill him properly, by all rights your Tarnished would be the leader of Those Who Live In Death as a sympathetic Elden Lord and Godwyn isn't necessary as a leader for them, symbolic or otherwise

>>724877676
He's not at full strength, Miquella is trying to manifest Radahn before he became the Starscourge, and possibly before he was even an adult, like a mirror to Miquella feeling weak due to his curse keeping him as a child. When Radahn begins to power up during Phase 2, Miquella rushes out to try preventing it, fearing that Radahn will break free. Miquella is trying to create a messy balance of a warrior stronger than the Tarnished but weak enough to control, and the greater the fights the more that balance disappears.

>>724877030
>Vyke didn't put himself in the Evergaol;
Yes he did. He removed his eye and put himself in a gaol
>Also, how would Vyke be freed by losing an eye if the Frenzied Flame would just "replace" it with a flame eye to control him instead?
Because he had his armor on
>Eyes burned by the Frenzied Flame don't give warped Grace
Yes they do, Frenzied Flame is corrupted grace and Hyetta is freed that grace to the point she starts seeing the guidance again
>and Hyetta is a demon pretending to be a normal person anyway.
No, she is just a maiden that lost grace. That's Yura you are confusing
>>724877216
No it's two trunks, both of which leak amber. It's the Crossed Tree

>>724861348
Not him and I do think the idea that the cocoons are all albinaurics being remade into healthy beings to be cool.
However I'm pretty sure no Albinauric has ever set foot at the Haligtree assuming Loretta is a human and the Envoys aren't some kind of sub species.
They were all summoned to Luturgical and to await a promised land that never came.

The other cocoons are probably various other Miquella followers that joined him in some kind of ascension though, maybe even some misbegotten.

>>724877676
He does the gravity wave thing and he does an enhanced version of meteor. I wanted more though because it honestly felt like Gaius was more skilled gravity mage.

>>724878168
Vyke didn't remove his eye, it's a treasure the Tarnished gets after beating Vyke's ass during the Liurnia invasion. The Tarnished could have knocked it out of Vyke's helmet or caused Vyke to lose the eye like they cause Millicent to lose an arm.

Vyke having his armor on didn't save him from getting a literal fingerprint right on his eye, and he's still crazed. His armor being on was just speculated to make him less than max schizo. The Frenzied Flame is its own thing that exists separately of Grace, a la Glintstone, the Scarlet Rot, etc. Hyetta is literally a 1:1 copy of Irina and only shows up after Irina has been killed, and you can still find Irina's body afterward. Hyetta is a demon, a la Shabriri, but more motivated.

Go look at the actual Scadutree, because you clearly can't discern that map drawing for crap, anon.

>>724878173
The other followers would have no major condition to treat. The Misbegotten just need to not be persecuted.

The only reason it should’ve been Godwyn is because I wanted to fight all the main demigods
>but ranni
You can fight her but she does an instakill attack on you since you try turning her into a cumslut.

>>724878772
Ranni still interests the hell out of me with her physical form mirroring Miquella's and her inordinately high power, but without giving up her personhood in the doing. She did SOMETHING to get retard strong that mirrors the ascension to godhood Miquella and Marika performed, given the Carian family's ties to all the Eternal Cities I wonder if the implication isn't that she found something like a silver mimicry of the Divine Gate

>Oh look a lore thread its been a while
>Oh no the Sun Realm schizo has baited another.
Should have known when the term "anons" showed up.

Remember, its ok to have some head canon understanding a game with a narrative held together with toothpicks, but when some faggot starts coming up with entire hypothetical power systems or kingdoms based on a single mention from an item being a crucial part of the narrative you're dealing with the same schizo who has melt down on Nintendo threads.

>>724875070
Now u do it POST his death

>>724878612
>it's a treasure the Tarnished gets after beating Vyke's ass during the Liurnia invasion
And you know why the actual vyke, the one in the present, is in a gaol
>Vyke having his armor on didn't save him from getting a literal fingerprint right on his eye
That his fingerprint, from the removal
>and he's still crazed. His armor being on was just speculated to make him less than max schizo.
He isn't crazed, the gaols are prisons for souls. He has no will of his own there.
>The Frenzied Flame is its own thing that exists separately of Grace
No it isn't. It's the same thing, acts the same and is proved many many times to be identical, to the point Hyetta is fed grace through eyeballs and can actually follow the guidance like other maidens. You have no argument to debunk this beyond repeating the same trite headcanon version of the story you msde up

>Messmer has the Grace of Marika in his right eye
>Leda drops her eye when killed
>runes confirmed to be grace as imparted by Marika (Maria's Golden Rune)
The grace is literally in the eyes

>>724879503
Gaols are prisons period, you let Blaidd out of one after Iji sticks him in

It's two trunks crossed together
Sorry

>>724879892
It's even supposed to be a metaphor for the hornsent spirals

>>724862775
Not like nonsensical time travel is foreign to fromsoft.

>>724878168
nah it's one tree. trees do this sometimes when it has 2 competing leads when it's young and one isn't pruned. they grow and grow in diameter until they clash. sometimes they twist around each other, sometimes they fuse, sometimes there's physical bark between the leading stems. the arboriculture term is co-dominance and it's a structural problem, hence the scadutree is brittle.
actually the contrast between the erdtree and scadutree remind me of nurseries creating cultivars of species for human use by grafting a branch with the desired qualities onto root stock. like common varieties of honeylocust people plant don't have thorns or seed pods when they do naturally.

>>724857349 (OP)
Boring, phase 2 is phase 1 with repeated arena wide explosions, fundamentally wasted opportunities wherein you fight a guy whose story was already done.

>>724879892
The shadow of order is embrace.
Everything the order stands for, individuality and control, is quite poetically metaphorically represented with the Scadu Tree being 2 trees, one being embraced by the selfless love of the other. That Order, though Golden in hue, is no better or worse than Scadu (shadow being represented with an archaic words pronounced nearly identically furthers the metaphor by suggesting the oldest ideals haven't changed, the new order is simply an establishment of conceptual differences). That's why the law of regression is unavoidable. Humans by nature love. That's why Miquella sought to rule by love, it was his ideal weapon to control what he assumed would be an everlasting peace, and as we established, love cannot be controlled. Even Ansbach was proof, as Miquella's charm did not stop him from asking too many questions of his own subservience to Miquella.

>>724879776
>Gaols are prisons period
No, they are prison for souls of the dead
>you let Blaidd out of one after Iji sticks him in
Blaidd appears through the light cipher, it's the cooperator symbol. The Gaol bosses appear like spirit ashes because they are dead in life and only their soul os contained in the gaol

Ozma is a way better final boss

>>724879986
It's shaped after Metyr and the Fingers and it was the Crossed Tree
The Hornsent really just mimicked most of it and their worship is centered around the spira, meaning the conveying of souls

>>724880757
Blaidd escapes the jail and then appears in person. That can’t happen if you have to be dead to be gaoled.

>>724879503
The Frenzied Flame can make up something that is like grace but it isn't the same.
Particularly because you don't see it with your actual eyes, but it is instead burnt into the back of your eyeballs from the inside out.
It is a nasty facsimile of grace, not the real deal.

*shits and farts all over your retarded lore discussion*

>>724881224
What's wrong with him?

>>724881224
>golden lineage randomly has a total copy of godrick right down to the grafting obsession

>>724881281
Copy paste boss of godrick with zero regard for lore just to rehash some content.

>>724880956
You don't have to be dead, but the prison was created to trap only the souls of those you do not want to return to the Sacred Tree
Vyke gouged his own eye out then trapped himself to not become controlled. He appears as a spirit because only his soul is there.
>>724881056
>Particularly because you don't see it with your actual eyes
>but it is instead burnt into the back of your eyeballs from the inside out.
This is true also for grace

>>724881224
Uhhh... loresisters, how do we come back from this?

>>724881410
Grace doesn't hurt people that see it.

>>724857410
playing smarter not harder

>>724857349 (OP)
cross slash and not being able to see anything. from patched those so they admitted they made a mistake btw.

>>724881462
By not caring lmao he fits deal with it chuddies grandaddy liked his arms too it's genetic

>>724881224
Notice how the shizophrenic lore retards never address this or the other reused models.

>>724861582
IMO, the DLC should have had a Maiden Astrea ending, where you beat the NPC gank and then kill a frail and basically defenseless Miquella yourself while in the arena.
Drop the Radahn fight itself. Hell, even make Miquella really tanky so you have to beat on him for a long time as he is unable to actually fight back significantly. Make it almost unpleasantly long.

>>724881352
>Copy paste boss of godrick
A bit lame but it's just a field boss
>zero regard for lore just to rehash some content
It shows that Grafting was something well in use in the Golden lineage. Also Godefroy is contextualized well by lore found in Altus.

>>724857349 (OP)
Anti climatic ending

>>724857349 (OP)
It's poorly designed in terms of mechanics and uninspiring / uninteresting / lame in terms of lore since it's just a reuse of a character the player already fought.

>>724881725
Doesn't take a genius to know that's a lazy bit of asset reuse, even games with serious stories are allowed to be video games sometimes

>>724881780
Yeah, Leda's fight is basically a mini-shattering, it serves its narrative function extremely well. Making player character feel like a piece of shit would be a good way to end the DLC about ambitions and godhood.

>>724881725
It doesn't matter how it appears in game, it's a game. The way they look is just lazy game design, and has nothing to do with lore implications. One could easily just infer, as it is with the majority of souls lore, that he may have had a lineage of grafting obsessed ancestors, the fact they aren't uniquely designed for the game isn't exactly surprising nor detract I've from the narrative as a whole. These are just nothing burgers that are blown out of proportion to disseminate lore imbalances by straw graspers. It's genuinely not that big of a deal.

>>724881949
>>724882115
>the lore deep and interconnected, even throwaway item descriptions let you glimpse into the world
>then something blatantly disregards the setting and the lore with pure video game logic
UHH IT'S A NOTHINGBURGER STOP TAKING THIS SO SERIOUSLY

>>724882256
Godefroy's not completely without context in the Altus Plateau and Godrick had to get the idea of grafting from somewhere

Little boy crashing out that there's still lore even if it's flimsy

>>724882256
I mean if you wanna seethe over it, that's your prerogative. I see it as a total win, cheap and effective, gets the idea across.

>>724857349 (OP)
VFX piss magic abuse for roll catching

>>724882256
>the game has to adhear to the rules I made for it it to be kino!
>reused assets means no lore!
>everyone is mad but me!
Alright then.

>>724881582
No it does not. It just controls you and induces hallucination, because it has no interest in melting realiting all in One again.
Doesn't mean they are not all Grace
The Fingers metaphorically and literally control Light and manipulate time with it.
The reason shadows are canine in nature is even due to the Fingers themselves generating them and the most common example being making the shadow of a dog.

The importance of Light and Grace is so much Marika drops all that Spiral nonsense to study directly Light, Law of Regression and Casuality being Laws that dictate how Grace spreads from Divinity and then tends to converge back into One. Grace and Frenzied Flame are those two sides of the same aspect. The Shattering is the enactment of Casuality, and Regression the mending and trasmutation of Elden Beast into its primordial form. There's a beautiful metaphysical depth to Elden Ring lore

Likewise sleep, which can contrast the Flame of Frenzy, happens to lull back to sleep several characters and make them lose their connection to their Lord or God, like the Florissax, so Sleep affects those with Frenzied Flame and those with Grace in the same way.

>>724863782
Ghost Flame and the Black Flame she used are totally different.
They function different in game, and both being white doesn't change that. Ghost Flame causes frostbite, Black Flame burns like a weaker version of Destined Death (which it is).

>>724882256
"The First Defense of Leyndell
A sovereign alliance rots from within
Traces yet remain of bloody conspiracy"
>Altus Plateau Sword Monument
"After the First Defense of Leyndell, Kristoff earned the hero's honor of Erdtree Burial for the feat of capturing Godefroy the Grafted."
>Ancient Dragon Knight Kristoff Ashes
"Godrick the Golden. The twin prodigies, Miquella and Malenia. General Radahn. Praetor Rykard. Lunar Princess Ranni. Wilful traitors, all."
>Morgott boss cutscene
The lore is all here. Godefroy is one of the most straighforward things to explain in this game.

>>724882643
>tfw chaos is chaos
>tfw order is order
>tfw two fingers plus three fingers is 5 fingers
>tfw 5 fingers on one hand
>tfw chaos is order
>Radigon is Marika
>The turtle tells you about Radigon
>turtle in Liurnia, where we first find Hyetta
>Hyetta is Irina
>Irina is from Carim, and wishes to be a Maiden
>if you give her enough souls to get all her spells, she becomes a fire maiden
>fire maidens have twin humanities
>fire is the opposite of dark
>dark is humanity's nature
>dark is shadow
>scadu is love and embrace
>humanity is scadu, order is chaos, fire is fading and the elden ring is shattered

>>724883240
Directed by James Cameron and G.R.R. Martin

>>724869716
>>724871560
The Sun Realm is all associated with Godwyn.
It is probably the world his followers in life dreamed of making with him as Elden Lord.
The Eclipse was meant to be his rebirth - probably was unable to be triggered because Radahn froze the Stars.
For some reason the implications of Radahn freezing the stars and that locking the fate of the demigods were unknown to Ranni and Seluvis, so Miquella certainly didn't know about it.

The Dung Eater's sun is possibly related to the Fire Giants, given that he likely fought alongside Godfrey's men when they were wiped out.
His sword is literally made from the corpse of a Giant, and he is vaguely associated with the Crucible like Godfrey and the Crucible Knights themselves were. But he's no friend of it, he'll help you kill both Mohg and Morgott.
So him wearing a trophy symbol from the race he helped genocide and it representing his image of Grace is pretty easy to hold together.

>>724882980
Yeah I don't know how he fucked that up. They're both death related but Ghostflame is basically soul fire created when you burn bones in the ER universe.

Blackflame is just Destined Death fire deprived of destined deaths true power.

>>724883537
Sun realm should have been some sort of dream like realm given corporeal existence via Miquella, where he attempts to control everything via his will and offset by a sort of Nightmare world being freed by St. Trina, and Godwyn's souls trapped in Miquella's dream, and body secreted to Trina's Nightmare
Opportunity fucking missed

>>724857410
Literally me

>>724883675
I thought blackflame was the godslaying flame from the glow eyed queen before it was stolen and ascended by Marika via the elden ring

>>724882980
>Ghost Flame and the Black Flame she used are totally different.
No they are not
The Black Flame is just a Tarnished version of the true Destined Death
Ghostflame used to be violet and is a flame generated by burning bodies. It does not exist normally and is only wielded by those who gained power by burning bodies

>>724875976
But it has a lot lesser guard boost than Fingerprint shield.Are you sure it's better if managing stamina is more important to you than taking slight amount of damage?

>>724879503
Gaol Vyke is invader Vyke, he just briefly projects out of the prison as an invader. Why would he be burning his own eye to touch it? His whole body would be fiery at that point. Actual people are locked in the Gaols, and if they're locked away for long enough they become a revenant of sorts, per Blaidd's JP dialogue to Darriwil. The Frenzied Flame is an unrelated power that only has the Three Fingers manifested in that form to mock the Golden Order and its two fingers.

>>724879774
Messmer has an artifact designed to look like an eye, and Leda's Rune is specifically noted as having never dwelled in an eye.

>>724871204
The Storm King was literally a giant hawk.
We find him and then give him to Nepheli who is Godfrey's true successor.
>>724871896
Limgrave is on the fringes of Golden Order society (hence the Fringefolk Hero's Grave), but it was always well populated and settled.
It is a place where we find multiple towns and villages and has two main dungeons, Stormveil and Castle Morne, and one big fort.

The Banished Knights are probably adjacent to Godwyn, given that they use dragon magic, and are found in places associated with him or his bloodline.
They're defending Godrick, his last main descendant, and they're protecting his church of the Eclipse, and overseeing the drake hunting cult that Godwyn's friends the Eternal Dragons ran. They also use storm magic that is vaguely associated with Godfrey's bloodline in general.
They were probably banished after Godwyn's death. Potentially for failing their duty in protecting him.

>>724883537
>The Sun Realm is all associated with Godwyn.
Nice headcanon
>The Dung Eater's sun is possibly related to the Fire Giants, given that he likely fought alongside Godfrey's men when they were wiped out.
No he didn't
>His sword is literally made from the corpse of a Giant
It's made of the corpse of a troll
>So him wearing a trophy symbol from the race he helped genocide
Of course you are a massive retard that didn't bother reading the armor description

>>724884258
>Miquella gave Leda the rune for her eyes
>Messmer was given his rune by Marika
The parallels her I suppose are supposed to be obvious, but I've seemed to have completely missed it until now. Interesting development

>>724884421
Aren't trolls just descendants of giants in the same way wyverns are descendants of ancient dragons? I feel like that part is splitting hairs. Not that anon BTW, not trying to cross wires or anything.

>>724884331
>The Banished Knights are probably adjacent to Godwyn
Always thought they came from Farum Azula and used to be Placidusax main troops before the place came crumbling down

>>724883537
The Sun Realm got bowled over by Marika before Godwyn was even born. Also, the Japanese script reveals that Lhutel (the summon)'s demi-god actually was revived, so somehow they did get some kind of eclipse thing to work during the Shattering, so Radahn didn't prevent it from working. The Dung Eater likely has the Sword of Milos solely to further delight in the misery Milos was said to experience in life.

>>724883841
It's been a good while since I read all the shit with the DD shit but from what I recall either DD was stolen from the ring by the GEQ before Marika was queen or she made the Rune of Death and synced it up with the ring to where it needed to be swallowed by a dog to stop having an effect on the world.

Either way the Godskins used to use black flame from the rune and it probably looked like the Red/Black fire you get hit with whenever you get Black Knifed or Black Bladed.

Then when DD was sealed, they could only derive black flame using the Godslayer Greatsword as a source according to its item description. So it really is a watered down version of Malekaths power.

>>724884232
Sun Realm Schizo that makes zero sense, game explicitly says that Black Flame is half-assed godslayer flame from the GoE queens sword that used to be from the Rune of Death.

Ghost Flame is unironic ghost fire. It's spirit fire, it happens when you burn bones and deals magic in the same way the spirit arrows deal magic damage. Because instead of star jizz those arrows contain the souls of squirrels and shit.

>>724884617
Not that guy but yeah, trolls are a smaller offshoot of giants.

There is a head canon that their stomachs are concave because Marika forced the surgical removal of the Fel God cyclops faces and replaced them with a stone erdtree effigy which also probably explains the roots in there.

>>724884421
All Sun Realm references are found on gear that you get through drops from TWLID skeletons.
Other explicit references to the sun are also almost all associated with Godwyn, like the Eclipse.
The Sun Realm transitioning to an Eclipse Cult after his failed death is an obvious shift.

The Dung Eater's sword is specifically said to come from a pygmy giant, not a troll.
His sun represents his vision of Grace, but it also clearly is related to the Furnace Visage that we get in the DLC.
The connection, given that the Dung Eater dreams of a world of suffering and murder and rape and pillage and that is the motivation that Marika's grace supports, is not an issue. It can represent both his vision of grace and what he wants for the world.
His armor is also red-gold and mottled with veins and the like, like Crucible Knight armor.

>>724884331
Stormveil only got those populations and settlements after people got banished there. The Banished Knights even began serving the Stormhawk King down there before the Golden Order expanded to the area and Godfrey killed him. The Banished Knights serve Godrick because he was stationed in the boonies with them and promised them a return to glory. We can infer that the Banished Knights were trying to emulate Farum Azula in the main game, but the DLC indicates that they were trying to capitalize on Placidusax's declaration to kill all drakes for power. The storm arts were presumably taught by the Stormhawk King, since they use his sigil. Godfrey probably only obtained an interest in the storm after living in Limgrave for a while.

>>724884239
PC Radahn's still got enough delay between attacks you could very feasibly lower your shield once in a while to regen stamina if you really need to, even if that lessens the cheese factor of shield poking him to death

>>724884617
>wyverns are descendants of ancient dragons
Wyverns are an offshoot of ancient dragons and descendants of Bayle while the ancient dragons were Placidusax' race, they're opposed to one another

>>724857410
this is why sekiro mogs elden ring

>>724857349 (OP)
undodgeable crisscross move
aftershock after every move is shit design that make the boss avoid punishes
can't see shit with miquella's hair
I beat him with buckler and i'm better than you by the way.

>>724884686
There were humans in Farum Azula apparently, going by the statues, but I think he'd have just used the giant beastmen, right?
>>724885025
Given that Castle Morne was a major location that Godfrey had to fight hard to conquer, I don't see much reason to think that the region was underpopulated.
Caelid was called a wild land, but Limgrave isn't treated as anything unpopulated other than just being at the distant reaches of the Golden Order.

I don't see why the Banished Knights would be there, before they could be banished from anywhere.
Especially because they are also found on the other side of the world in Castle Sol. The only thing linking the two, is Godwyn's legacy.
There's definitely a link to Farum Azula, and I imagine in life that Godwyn was pretty familiar with the city given his bond with the dragons what ruled it.
I see no issue with the claim storm magic is downstream from Godfrey's battle with the Storm King, but it would still be associated with his bloodline and legacy.

>>724857349 (OP)
It felt rushed!

>>724857349 (OP)
It's the flashbanging. The arena not being flat is also a bit of an issue, but the flashbanging is the worst offender I'd say. I don't hate it myself, but that's hardly defensible.

>>724872406
I find it fun, even if I'm extremely aware that it is all pointless.
Did you know that Goldmask was once named Hoarah Loux? Late enough in development for the subtitles to still be included in the files?
>https://x.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1506629734150643718
Names and shit like that are too ephemeral and rapidly shuffled around until release to have a lot of meaning.

>>724884746
It kinda makes sense that maybe GEQ was sacrificed as the host for Marika's ascension, since she steals something from what appears to be a leather bodybag with an unknown corpse, and framed as a womb delivering fibers of gold. IIRC, Marika tricked GEQ using Radagon to seduce GEQ, whom I'm assuming by virtue of her title, was the previous Queen and holder of the Elden Ring, and when Marika's seduction succeeded GEQ's death, presuming any of what I said is true outside of my own headcanon here and now, tainted or doused blackflame as the order of operations for life and death, in the same way that during the Age of Plenty, people were born and reborn via the sap of the Erdtree and being hewn to its roots when the bodies die.
Side note, Renalla's got the rebirthing amber rune thing right? Why did Marika allow Radagon to give that to her? Was that not the direct reason for the Age of Plenty to end? It's the entire method of which life cycles, as shown by Renalla's inability to utilize it properly resulting in broken reanimated half-beings, they even drop from their cradles like drops of sap from a tree to the floor during her boss fight.

>>724885576
Maybe the beastmen were the regular foot troops and the Banished Knights the elite ones used for hunting wyverns considering how they wield dragon incantantions and their whole armor set
The Banished Knight Armor reads:
>This armor was worn by knights who, whether by misfortune or misdeed, were forced to abandon their homes.
Farum Azula crumbling down seems like a big enough misfortune to force them into getting scattered through the Lands Between

>>724885008
>The Sun Realm transitioning to an Eclipse Cult after his failed death is an obvious shift.
The Eclipse cult was different, associated with death and the wandering mausoleums.

>>724857349 (OP)
It is boring mechanically, thematically and visually.
Everything Radahn does has been done before and better.

>>724885008
>TWLID skeletons.
That are corpses of the old Empire buried long before they had any allegiance to Godwyn

>>724886000
>Marika tricked GEQ using Radagon to seduce GEQ, whom I'm assuming by virtue of her title, was the previous Queen and holder of the Elden Ring,
What?

>>724886727
We find them in catacombs and recent graves that were built for the Erdtree specifically.

>>724886000
I believe that was a snake, not a baby wrapped in cloth.
There is a snake skin found in the DLC and the eye she removed the string from is the same eye containing the abyssal serpent on Messmer.

>>724885008
The Sun Realm fell ultra early. The Hero of Castle Morne, who fought Godfrey back when he was Elden Lord, was trying to avenge his clan. The Hero of Castle Morne has a unique gravestone, called a "moangrave" by the Site of Grace on the map, and this gravestone design appears in one other place, the graveyard with the golden skeletons just before the Draconic Tree Sentinel. That design is the sole one used in that area, so we can infer that From Software clearly intended for that to be where his clan was slain. Because there are some Sun Realm knights among the skeletons, we can infer that the Sun Realm fell very early on in Marika's rise to power. Because of this, we know the realm doesn't relate to Godwyn.

The eclipse relates to ancient rituals before Godwyn and possibly separate from the Sun Realm.

>>724863161
>miquella tried
and in the DLC he would try again and this time it would work. That would be called forscaduing and payoff.

>>724884331
Why don't you play the fucking game instead of spouting nonsense? No the Banished Knights are Sun Realm knights. They are an Empire preceding the Golden Order and that was destroyed by the Fallingstars
Their white mane is the sane Maliketh has, a symbol of status that is also depicted in the Farum Azula Elden Ring and is then used by Lord Radahn/God Miquella because Miquella and Radahn both wisg to bring the same Age of the Sun back.

The Sun Realm was an heterogenous multi-race Empire of beastmen, beasts, hawks, hawkmen (depicted in Farum Azula as ascendancy path and in Nightreign for the Guardian), lions, wolves, dragons and normal men. This civilization spanned across all the Lands Between and is the reason why there's Sun worship imagery from Castle Sol all the way to Caelid.

The place most tied to Banished Knight is Stormveil, a burial site and Fortress that is depicted as crowned by the Sun.

The skeletons (and bestial skeletons) have gear of the Sun Realm because they were soldiers and warriors buried long ago. It has nothing to do with them being NOW TWLID

the dlc was so shit it marred the entire game
it shouldn't have been made

>>724887206
No we don't

>>724858950
if you want the dodge direction to matter then you should stop sucking the dick of videogames that give you 1000 iframes on spammable rolls, retard
you fromdrones fundamentally do not fucking get it and never will

>>724887690
Falseflagging nigger
>>724863161
>Miquella tried.
Miquella tried to kill Godwyn because he needed Godwyn to die

>>724887713
They're carried by the skeletons that come from random graves even within Leyndell itself.
Also I'm fairly sure at least some skeletons carry them in catacombs.
Either way, it isn't so old that its from some forgotten and buried time. The graves are still on the surface.

>>724857349 (OP)
Phase 1 is good
Phase 2 is hectic cancer and the only fun I had in that phase was sekiroblocking their nuclear explosion

>>724875717
>BUT they always track you perfectly anyway so what's the point?
lmao learn to play unlocked

>>724885025
>Stormveil only got those populations and settlements after people got banished there.
Doesn't matter how much you try to repeat this, nobody is believing your retarded shit.
No, the Fringes are not Stormveil, they are the Snowfield, which is why that echo of Marika is heard in the lift to Mountaintops, not in Limgrave.
The Banished Knights that were sent to Mountaintops followed Miquella, and those who accepted the Grace Given Lord remained in Altus, but both Engvall and Oleg for example were buried in their home in Limgrave, one in a big hero dungeon and the other in a catacomb

>>724857349 (OP)
Because at the DLC's launch, he had numerous significant problems.
>cross slash is undodgeable unless you light roll or constantly maintain a specific position
>beam spam makes attacks hard to see and lowers framerate
>downtime between attacks is rare enough that a large percentage of the fight is a waiting game
>optimal strategy is the most boring gameplay possible (see >>724857410)
>moveset isn't nearly as varied or fun to fight as Messmer and Midra
>everyone was tired of repeat bosses already
>not as good in lore, atmosphere, or gameplay as the first Radahn fight
>reward for winning is just some remembrance weapons and a cutscene repeating lore the player already knows, making it a severely underwhelming finale to the game
The poor balancing and visibility/performance issues were mostly fixed in patches but the other problems are still there.

>>724887690
TRVKE
R
V
K
E

>>724885576
Castle Morne would only be attacked well after the people exiled to Stormveil started a new life there, and perhaps generations afterward (thanks to this being a magical setting) to boot. Limgrave has been through a lot of history and changes. The "echo" of Marika at the Grand Lift of Dectus implies that Marika brought everyone she was going to exile from Altus (and the Mountaintops) to the limits of her nation and gave them a last option to stay or to be tossed to the other side of the continent. Those who didn't side with her got marched down through Liurnia and abandoned in a place with few people and strong, cold winds. Godwyn only became associated with dragons after a surviving ancient dragon civilization somewhere blitzed Leyndell and kicked off the ancient dragon war. The Banished Knights were like exiled well before then.

>>724872187
Kek. She literally turned into a doll of herself. Nothing suspicious about that.

>>724863362
>incorporating his soul into the elden ring.
not what happens in the ending, retard

>>724857349 (OP)
Pre-nerf, he had a sequence of attacks that was essentially impossible to dodge if you were in front of him.
Any remaining hatred for the boss is indeed just shitter whining

>>724887923
>They're carried by the skeletons that come from random graves even within Leyndell itself.
Yes, because the Sun Realm stretched across all the Lands Between and all those soldiers were buried long before the Golden Order.
The dead were buried and Rosus led their souls to the Realm of Shadow with the Lampwood, where they would find their way into growing as spiritgraves.
This is why most Catacombs, especially those with advanced automatons and mechanical traps, have lamps and lights.
This whole process now does not exist and the dead are absorbed to the roots of the Tree, so it's only logical and consequential that the bodies that rise from their graves are skeletons of Sun Realm warriors

>>724887618
The helmet has long hair because that looks cool.
There's no link to Maliketh. The Banished Knights we find in Farum Azula wear a headscarf anyhow.
There's nothing linking them directly to the Sun Realm, except mutual adjacency to Godwyn.
They don't use Sun Realm gear. They use storm magic and drake magic, one of which is associated with Godfrey's lineage, and the other with Godwyn and the ancient dragons.
The skeletons that use Sun Realm gear aren't that old. They crawl out of graves that are recent and surface level. We don't find them only in deep underground ruins like Soifra or Ainsel. They crawl out of random roadside graveyards. This indicates that whatever their origin, it can't be farther back than everything else we see built.
The Sun Realm seems to be something more aspirational than anything that actually was achieved. It only exists in heraldry.

The Nox being destroyed by the Greater Will is not connected to the Banished Knights.

>>724875247
It was ignored for being undeniable truth

It has one of the best boss themes in any fromsoft game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK5ObZ_vXsU

>>724863536
BB removes and streamlines many stats and already gives you very generous stamina at the start. Gear isn't completely cosmetic either as one with high lightning resistance can almost half the damage you take of that element. Using two weapons in previous souls games isn't the same as trick weapons since the latter seamlessly changes moves midcombo

>>724867420
*and not good design in the slightest

>>724886000
I agree that Marika is pulling something out of a bag with human remains, but I don't think it's the GEQ. If the GEQ was already a god, then she already had an Elden Lord and Radagon would have no way to fulfill the plan you mentioned. We also know from the Godskinners' armor that Maliketh is the one who fought and defeated them and the GEQ. Also, if the GEQ was indeed a god with the Elden Ring, Marika would have likely censored everything to do with the GEQ and her servants just like she censored the history and existence of the central Lands Between.

It's curious why Rennala was allowed to have the rune, but perhaps Marika was testing how much she could mess with the Elden Ring before the Elden Beast noticed. The Age of Plenty is speculated to have possibly ended because Marika removed a food source when she removed the Rune of Death. I personally think the Age of Plenty was just a fruiting season of sorts and everyone was bitter that the Erdtree was still just doing tree things. No one in the Golden Order thinks Marika's not eternal just because she has kids either, so I think the worries about the Erdtree producing seeds was actually about other nations possibly getting their own Erdtrees, thus ruining Leyndell's original literally holier than thou ideology.

>>724863137
source/artist name? i only browse /v/ for pornography

>>724887797
Your bitchfit doesn't change the fact that the dodge direction does matter. It should honestly be more common for the dodge direction to matter.

>>724888492
If they were buried that long ago, we wouldn't see their gravestones hanging out just in the open.
After the Shattering and Godwyn's death, its clear that the old system of Erdtree root internment collapsed and that is why grave sites became more and more common.
As well, those that choose to live in the catacombs are associated with TWLID. Like the mages that can use death magic to summon skeletons back to life, or the DLC Death Knights.
The Sun Realm warriors are likely those that chose to die and be brought back as a TWLID skeleton for the sake of unity with their Lord, Godwyn (like a lesser version of the Mausoleum knights). Or having been revived through the spread of deathroot began to support the Lord of Death, Godwyn.

>>724887923
>>724888492
The skeletons on the surface have different gear, and even some different move sets, from the skeletons in the catacombs. The knights with Sun Realm stuff are only found on the surface. Context clues with the Dectus echo of Marika and the Hero of Castle Morne indicate that the Sun Realm was on Altus, with a minor presence on the Mountaintops, and any survivors who didn't ally with Marika were banished south to Limgrave, with some later traveling or being forced to Caelid.

Most catacombs are designed for the sake of Erdtree burial, so those skeletons are probably of people from or allied with the Golden Order.

>>724888508
>The helmet has long hair because that looks cool.
>There's no link to Maliketh.
Wrong
>There's nothing linking them directly to the Sun Realm
Yes there is.
They are in Castle Sol and in Farum Azula
They also carry the mane of the Sun Realm warriors
>They don't use Sun Realm gear.
Yes they do actually
>They use storm magic and drake magic, one of which is associated with Godfrey's lineage
The other way around Gpdfrey drew them from Stormveil, which is a Fortress with a Sun Gate and golden decorations etched onto it to make it look like the Sun is crowning it
>The skeletons that use Sun Realm gear aren't that old.
Yes they are
>They crawl out of graves that are recent and surface level.
Nope, there's nothing recent about those graves. The burial in simple graves is a pre-Erdtree burial tradition specifically because those bodies are not meant to return to the Erdtree.
Likewise many Old Catacombs have funerary ashes that are broken and ruined because those catacombs only later have been repurposed for Erdtree burial
>The Sun Realm seems to be something more aspirational than anything that actually was achieved
You are a massive retard and Godwyn has nothing to do with the Sun Realm. You will never meme your headcanon that Godwyn had any involvement with the Sun
The fact that you conflate Dragon Communion with fucking Dragon Cult shows how retarded you are, especially when Dragon Communion is literally tied to Farum Azula downfall and the actual Eclipse, which has nothing to do with Godwyn but is the downfall of the old Demigods, the old Order and Farum Azula itself.

The Sun Realm schizo is still at it heh?
There is no such thing in that game

>>724888189
Niall was allowed to avoid being exiled and to save his soldiers by giving up one of his limbs (the EN script has a typo and acts like he gave up a prosthetic he already had at the time). That's the reason why Castle Sol has Exile Soldiers and Banished Knights. The echo of Marika regarding the banishment is at Dectus, which links Liurnia and southwestern Altus, not Rold, which links the Forbidden Lands with the Mountaintops. The Banished Knights were exiled before Miquella was ever born, and a ghost at Castle Sol acts as though the ritual failing means he (and presumably others at the castle) won't be invited to Elphael.

So we do agree the Banished Knights came from outside the Lands Between?

Because its fucking obvious the devs made Radhan the final boss because of all the streamer reaction meme to the base game fight.

>>724889140
>If they were buried that long ago, we wouldn't see their gravestones hanging out just in the open.
Yes we would
>The Sun Realm warriors are likely those that chose to die and be brought back as a TWLID skeleton for the sake of unity with their Lord, Godwyn
More Godwyn headcanon bullshit to add to the pile
>>724889253
There's skeletons in the surface of all kinds, even militiamen and unarmed ones. The bodies in catacombs were stripped instead.
Those bodies were not meant to be absorbed and we see their death in the realm of shadow.
They literally appeared as spirit graves, where they form larval tears for new births, before Marika removed Death

>>724889314
Death Knights, explicitly Godwyn's biggest followers, wear sun motif armor and wield sun motif weapons.
Godwyn's mausoleum knights, that wield Deathblight, carry eclipse shields.
Skeletons revived by Godwyn's influence, carry Sun Shields.
Godwyn is heavily associated with sun iconography.

After the Shattering it is clear that there was basically a breakdown in body disposal practices and instead graveyards started to be built.
Leyndell's inner walls are full of gravestones, even when of all places it should have had zero, and Marika wouldn't have left them up. The boom of TWLID caused Erdtree root burials to stop because people would keep coming back alive.

Dragon Communion is an explicit psyop run by the Ancient Dragons to encourage random humans to start killing drakes. Being a member of it means that you've hunted and slain at least one drake, which is exactly what Placidusax wants.
There's no contradiction with being a follower and supporter of the ancient dragons and their allies, and using dragon communion magic. You're doing exactly what the ancient dragons want you to do, kill Bayle's progeny.
The Banished Knights being drake hunters is entirely in line with them being followers of Godwyn. They didn't have the Faith stats to use Ancient Dragon Cult spells, but could still do service killing and consuming lesser drakes for their magic.

>>724889314
The helmet hair is based on the ancient dragons, not Maliketh. Castle Sol relates to a different sun-related thing, and the Farum Azula ones are trying to pillage drake remains for power or were stationed there by Morgott, a la the Draconic Tree Sentinel. Stormveil's main merlons might be trying to emulate the Gate of Divinity, but Stormveil notably lacks every other thing possible to actually have something like the Gate of Divinity, so the builders are basically posers and didn't even align the gate with the movement of the actual sun, let alone get some outer god masquerading as the sun to show up a la Enir-Ilim.

>>724890034
The variety of skeletons on the surface differs from the variety of skeletons in the catacombs. The catacombs skeletons use different weapons and also use the move sets of skeletons from prior From Software games.

>>724890048
The Death Knights are trying to emulate the makeshift Mending Rune that Fia aims to create, not the sun. The mausoleum knights are related to an ancient practice, not Godwyn, and their shield designs and cavalry saddles have more to do with the Cuckoo knights than any other military in the Lands Between. Catacombs were for the most important people in the Lands Between, and they wouldn't have all been built at once.

Dragon Communion isn't a "psyop", it's blatantly and publicly about killing drakes for power.

>>724889504
The schizo theories about that place can get really annoying. I think it's a neat minor detail about Elden Ring's setting that can make the place feel more nuanced, but it's not some mega conspiracy, it's either a destroyed minor Altus kingdom, Leyndell with a prior name, or a minor kingdom that got repurposed as the Shadow Keep in the crusade.

>>724890048
Wow, look at this.
A giant sun on the back of the helmet.
>The decayed golden wheel that adorns it represents their unbroken loyalty to Godwyn, he who became Prince of Death.
A sun that represents loyalty to Godwyn.
A very similar visor brim and helmet decoration as the banished knights helmet.
Hell, even arguably the same white hair.

I wonder if there's an obvious link between the spinny guys that use lightning and the spinny guys that use storm magic who both hang out in places that Godwyn is connected to?

>bringing godwyn back would make no sense
like bringing radhan back does

>>724890048
>Death Knights, explicitly Godwyn's biggest followers, wear sun motif armor and wield sun motif weapons.
No they don't. It's hilarious how you'll claim anything but the actual Sun imagery is Sun imagery because every single depiction of the Sun, from the Avatar of the Old Order to the Demigods of the Old Order are completely unrelated to and detatched from Godwyn
>After the Shattering it is clear that there was basically a breakdown in body disposal practices and instead graveyards started to be built.
No it isn't, shallow graves are everywhere in the Realm of Shadow too
>Leyndell's inner walls are full of gravestones, even when of all places it should have had zero,
You think that because you are a retard with zero lore knowledge that thinks Leyndell popped right out of Marika's cunt when she became Goddess, when Leyndell has a literal gate to the Bridge that leads to Farum Azula, and together with the Divine Towers it represents the unity of regions and races across the Lands Between under the Sun Realm
>Dragon Communion is an explicit psyop run by the Ancient Dragons to encourage random humans to start killing drakes.
No, Dragon Communion is a path of servitude to Dragons initiated right before the fall of Farum Azula and the Eclipse. This is proved by all Ancient Dragons having Gold under their wings, while the rest of the body is as grey as Farum Azula itself, all of it losing color during the Eclipse. This is also the reason somber smithing stones exist and the Dragon Communion knights see is a sunset with faded colors, the fall of the Sun Realm itself.
>The Banished Knights being drake hunters is entirely in line with them being followers of Godwyn.
No it's not. That's your retarded headcanon. Godwyn has nothing to do with Banished Knights nor Dragon Communion. It's circular logic bullshit because nothing in the first place tied Godwyn to any of these elements or the Sun, especially not the Eclipse Sun Ritual which is tied to Skeleton Lord Ensha

>>724890753
more sense than godwyn that nigger deader than dead

I just think it's neat we get to discuss the game here :)

But what if Godwyn was actually the child of Radagon and GEQ and his whole prince of death thing and the Ranni killing his soul was some sort of full circle destiny type shit moment

>>724857349 (OP)
IMO this boss has only one big problem, which is his hyper aggressiveness. Phase two attacks you for half an hour before you're allowed to hit him once or twice. His massive health pool aggravates this problem because it makes the fight last longer than it should. If you cut either his aggressiveness or health, he'd be a perfectly fine boss.

>>724890117
What do you this Lansseax' lansussy smelled like? Did she have long braided dragon pubes?

>>724890892
>radahn the guy we kill in the base game isn't dead
>but the undead god is for really really dead
fuck Miquella

>>724890595
Yeah i consider the Faram Azula skeletons having sun realm shields to be an extreme oversight.

>>724890446
>The variety of skeletons on the surface differs from the variety of skeletons in the catacombs.
Yes, the latter have been stripped of their clothes
>>724890117
>The helmet hair is based on the ancient dragons, not Maliketh
They are both based on the Sun Realm
>Castle Sol relates to a different sun-related thing
No, it's the exact same down to having the same decorations as Farum Azula
>and the Farum Azula ones are trying to pillage drake remains for power or were stationed there by Morgott
Headcanon
>Stormveil's main merlons might be trying to emulate the Gate of Divinity
No they aren't. In fact it's the other way around. The Stormveil Sun Gate was imitated by the Hornsent because both were created to reach divinity and are made of corpses
>but Stormveil notably lacks every other thing possible to actually have something like the Gate of Divinity
No it does not. In fact it was a sacred burial site where a Godwyn follower planted a pustule of Godwyn. In the DLC, the Death Knights do the same in 2 more Catacombs (the third one died). This proves that
1. Godwyn isn't randomly spreading through the Lands Between growing random faces from the ground
2. Stormveil is effectively a Catacomb, from which a pustule of Godwyn can draw Death to grow into a body.

I stopped caring about ER lore. I though Marika became host/caretaker of the Elden Beast, but now some horned fags have a sacred divine gate that does something. Whatever.

>>724887979
Based take
First phase is good because you're just fighting a giant dude with big swords. It's especially kino if you use the deflecting tear and the Crucible tali that gives i-frames in backsteps. Second phase having light pillar gatling guns with each attack is fucking ugly.

>>724891436
You are correct both times

>>724891436
God and Elden ring Host were already implied to not be mutual exclusive things in the original game.
Otherwise the Godskin shit wouldn't make much sense if every single member was adorned with the flesh of former Elden Ring vessels, because that's a lot of collapses civilizations.

Nah, the point is it takes an already powerful being to become vessel of the Ring, hence why there isn't a single ending where you, the player, become the actual host of the ring and you're stuck being "Elden Lord".

>>724891436
I stopped caring about Fromsoft lore when I realized that none of it fucking matters, and none of it affects or influences what you can do in the world or with the story at all. Because everything interesting happened billions of years ago, and all that's left for you to do is to meet the half dozen vague dialogue and ominous cackle dispensers who'll be dead anyway before the game is over, pick over ruins, and fight legions of mindless zombies before getting to the bosses who used to be characters but are now just screaming animals you kill and that's that.

>>724890704
>Wow, look at this.
>A giant sun
Nope, it's a double centipede
This >>724891425 is an actual sun but it doesn't fit your retarded narrative where the game mentions Sun multiple times and associate it to several elements existing way before Godwyn
>>724890753
It does make sense, because Radahn controlled his fate and went to Helphen after dying in battle. Nobody actually wants to bring Godwyn back. He was killed to have him reborn Lord of Night before Ranni doublecrossed the Black Knives
Miquella also wants to kill him so that he cam bring back as undead another Demigod

>>724891772
I wish they would do a scifi game. Enough with the post apocalyptic setting.

I really should play that Surge game even if it is mid.

>>724857410
beat him two times pre nerf, but it was not easy at all, once with claws and endure spam and once with an 80 int build which was way harder

>no Miquella fight
>no Miquella specific weapons that he uses that isn't Saint Trina
I just wanted to do a fun cosplay

>>724890704
>>724890849
When something is literally a sun, it is a sun.
The Death Knight armor and weapons have suns built right into them in the most obvious way possible.
You're claiming that Stormveil is part of the Sun Realm because it has gold to cap off its towers, shut the fuck up here with your retarded rambling when you won't look at armor sets that have a sun literally built right into them.

Instead of making up kooky bullshit based on the devs adding some color and glamor to a grey castle from a kingdom that loves to cover everything in gold, put 2 and 2 together and realize that the guy who happens to have a finger in almost every pie when sun iconography appears, probably has something to do with the sun.

The Realm of Shadow obviously didn't engage in Erdtree burials.
Most of its culture predates the Erdtree and beyond that, Messmer was there to genocide the Hornsent. Not to integrate them into Golden Order religion. They weren't going to be reincarnated through the Erdtree, ever. Why wouldn't there be tons of gravestones?
It isn't comparable in the slightest.
We actually see the places where Marika's followers were meant to be buried and they look the same as the Erdtree catacombs we see outside of the DLC.
And they're also infected with Deathblight. As we see in the base game. It is why people stopped using those.

It doesn't matter that Marika didn't found Leyndell from scratch, why would she leave random grave sites up inside the walls of her gilded capital city?
The graves are clearly new, built after the Shattering and the spread of Deathroot.
There's no reason for them to be there. You think Marika has a love for them as decorations?

>>724890849
>>724892132
>>724890849
Dragon Communion is a genocide advertisement campaign where you if you collect enough boxtops (hearts), the Ancient Dragon clergy will grant you the power to summon the power of a drake.
It is Placidusax's revenge scheme to help wipe out Bayle's progeny.
The dragons are gold because they were the previous favorites of the Greater Will until their God ran away and left Placidusax to hold the bag. Marika handed out gold eyes, the Dragon God graced their followers with golden flesh itself. Perhaps the Greater Will was closer back then.

Godwyn was the first to actually tune in with the Ancient Dragon Cult itself. Which is separate from the Dragon Communion cult.
But killing drakes is still part of that system. Because the Ancient Dragons want you and all their other followers to keep killing drakes.
There's no contradiction. One is just a lower level version of the other. When one is a follower of the ancient dragons, but lacks the power to wield their actual magic. Instead getting power through channeling the drakes you kill in their service.

You know what's fucking lame? With how much these games love to jerk you off with all these gods, demigods, and important inheritors of some fucking whatever you're killing, how come everyone and their cat gets to have their own unique and special armor, weapons, spells, and what have you, but all (You) get is whatever you can scavenge from their corpses? Why has not a single one of these games had a mechanic where your own power brings forth some kind of unique thing all your own?

>>724891847
Why would the Death Knights have the curse mark on them when no one knew what the full curse mark looked like until we put it together ourselves?
Did they randomly guess right?

Regardless, it isn't a coincidence at all that Fia's rune looks like a Sun.
All the Mending Runes look like what you'd expect them to look like given their sources. And Fia's looking like Godwyn's sun is no accident.

>>724889449
they are unironically either autists or gigantic dorks who should be bullied irl.

>>724892529
>it isn't a coincidence at all that Fia's rune looks like a Sun.
It's literally a centipede biting it's own tail symbolizing the parasitic eternal undeath of the new world under that rune.

>>724889449
Fromsoft has pulled an amazing scam with how they convinced an entire generation of gamers that their games have so much STORY and LORE, when in reality they just sketch out a vaguely connected series of things for the player to do, more concerned with having impressive-looking setpieces and boss fights, while completely skipping that pesky "writing an actual fucking narrative" part. They just scatter random ideas onto item descriptions, and the absolute retards that are their playerbase will come up with any old headcanon about why it doesn't make a lick of sense, tricking themselves into thinking any of it matters when they're actually playing a glorified hack & slash.

>>724885115
Well I made that clip on console so

>>724893070
fuck

>>724892302
Your character can be whatever the hell you want them to be so there's nothing you can really give them that's totally emblematic of themselves that isn't already covered by starting armor

>>724892132
>When something is literally a sun, it is a sun.
Nope
>The Death Knight armor and weapons have suns built right into them in the most obvious way possible.
They don't
>You're claiming that Stormveil is part of the Sun Realm because it has gold to cap off its towers
And a Sun Gate
And Banished Knights
And many graves of the Old Order from which thorns appear
>The Realm of Shadow obviously didn't engage in Erdtree burials.
None of the Lands Between engaged in Erdtree burials before Marika, this defeats your argument that Catacombs were created for it when countless bodies are not in the ground merging with roots.
>Why wouldn't there be tons of gravestones?
Because those are spirit gravestones you utter retard
>A piece of a gravestone that has started to turn into a spirit.
Material used for crafting items.

>In places to where the dead have been brought since antiquity,
the oldest gravestones turn into spirits and then fade away.
The catacombs were not built for Erdtree burial, which is why they are multilayered, vertical and built with small enclaves to place bodies. Only later they were adapted to connect to the roots through a floor at the bottom.
The dead were placed, in catacombs of graveyards, and their souls then found their way to the Realm of Shadow, where it formed spiritgraves and from which larval tears were created.
>>724892230
>The dragons are gold because they were the previous favorites of the Greater Will until their God ran away
No, the Dragons were gold because they lost their color during the Eclipse (except Fortissax who is still golden). Their God didn't "run". Their God is the Sun.

All your Godwyn made up headcanon has nothing to do with this
>>724892529
>it isn't a coincidence at all that Fia's rune looks like a Sun.
What about Rune of Perfect Order?
I guess every Ring shaped emblem is a Sun in Elden Ring (except the wctual Sun medallion, the Sun Avatar, the Sun visage, the Blazing spherical ball of Fire of the Fire God, ...)

>>724857349 (OP)
Don't care, I just like Radahn and think he's cool and was glad to get to fight "prime" Radahn.

>>724893325
you've put more thought into the game's setting than the people who made it

>>724893296
It's 2025, don't tell me something like a weapon that adjusts to the types of weapons you predominantly use/your stat spread/other aspects of your build (like elemental damage choices in spells or linked to your highest stats) is beyond the ability of modern devs to implement.

I feel really bad for the godwyn larper he seems completely gone mentally.
Don't let anons do this to you.

>>724893325
>>the Dragons were gold because they lost their color during the Eclipse (except Fortissax who is still golden). Their God didn't "run". Their God is the Sun.
HOLY SHIT YOU’RE SO WRONG
Based Sun Realm schizo won.

>>724893575
I feel really bad for that anon

>>724893575
No, I'm 100% correct (as usual)
You can literally see some gold remaining under their wings.
The Eclipse faded their gold in the same way it faded the Gloam Eyed Queen flame color and it faded Farum Azula into a grey location

>>724893764
This is tragic.

>>724893385
No, I didn't. I just have the actual IntellIgence to pick up on the narrative clues it leaves.
Every single catacomb that is large, advanced and presents Rosus and/or the lampwood was NOT designed for Erdtree burial and has coffins or enclaves to story bodies, you can also tell the difference in social status between catacomb #2748 and an Hero's grave.

>>724893378
Based. Radahn is one of the coolest from characters

>>724893976
Maybe the coolest.

>>724893918
you've been deceived by random clues with no culmination
this is and what always will be fromsoft's storytelling, now huff the copium about how smart you are when it comes to connecting random threads as per your liking

>>724893764
I never noticed that

>>724893479
I mean they COULD curtail a weapon completely around your build, but why would they do that when you already have so many options you're going to find what you're looking for out in the game world already

Elden Ring's only real exception to that idea is there's very little that curtails to the "pyromancy" INT + FAI builds on account of pyromancy/dark not being an existing magic school anymore, incantations and sorceries are hard FAI and hard INT and usually INT + FAI gear just lets you use both at once

>>724894106
Because it has nothing to do with what he's saying. Gold conducts electricity really well and the dragons are lightning masters without spells.

>>724892847
The point of the reveal is that what you thought was a symbol of corruption, a centipede, is actually a radiant halo representing the return of true death and life after death to the world.

>>724894097
You are a low IQ monkey with no critical thought and ability to infer meaning and context.

>>724894194
It would have been if the elden beast didn't usurp the throne of the sun and rob it of all its magical power.
Shame how that destroys everything you've been typinig.

>>724894202
or maybe you're just a schizo or a supremely pathetic dweeb

>>724894164
Fortissax is all Golden but partially covered in Deathroot, so the theory of Tarnished color makes sense

>>724857479
So, like fighting the demi-human swordsman?

>>724857410

STR Faith is the ultimate build

Godwynfag won btw
You fags need to have abyssmal interpretive comprehension to not see the clear insinuation between Mending Rune of the Death-Prince, Death Knights halo/Aureola and the Sun Realm design, AND the Eclipse sign in the Knights and Shotel.

>>724894358
No. Dragons have gold in their body it is how they conduct electricity without magic. It doesn't go further than that because the material gold and the color gold in magic isn't the same thing (crucible armor specifically tells you it isn't rust to explain the red - color and material don't always become synonymous).

>>724894446
Neither the Headless Knights nor the Eclipse Shotel have anything to do with Godwyn

>>724894446
I feel really bad for him everyone is making fun of him and he's walking into his humiliation rituals left and right.
Why isn't anyone helping him? Is this just funny to you guys?

>>724891935
The Surge is actually pretty fucking good. You can lock on specific limbs and break them off, changing even boss fight mechanics, directional guarding (not parrying) and targeted armor farming through the limb viscera system, combined with set bonuses, is actually pretty fucking rad. The animations feel kinda clunky, but not any worse than the most recent Lords of the Fallen, it's very playable and the ng+ is really fun. Get the dlc bundle if you do play it, the dlc has broken ass p2w weapons and armor. The story is decent enough, the second game expounds upon the first's mechanics but kinda makes the story a secondary feature, redeemed by the gameplay though.

>>724891935
They did
It's called Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon

>>724894783
This is the shin godzilla of the eureka seven series.

>>724892302
You are literally the Tarnished, would be Elden Lord, ordained to take the throne and Consort of Marika. You're literally predestined to kill every God Dan pillage from them their greatest powers, that is your power.
Just like the Chosen Undead was destined to light the flame,
The Bearer of the Curse to find a way to break the cycle,
The Ashened One destined to let the Fire fade

>>724894512
Guess who else is soulless?
Literally everyone else who die in the Night of the Black Knives. We know Marika sacrificed her children. This doesn't disprove Godwynfags point.

>>724893325
The death knights have Sun iconography all over. Denying this is full retard shit.

There is no sun gate or alignment with the sun.
The knights are there for Godwyn.
The thorns are the products of Deathblight.
You are 0/3 on that.

Erdtree burials stopped happening when Deathblight and TWLID started popping up.
You aren't going to keep putting bodies in the roots when they keep coming back to life as skeletons.
You also aren't going to leave random ancient graveyards up in the middle of your eternal divine queendom. So graves we see above ground in places like Leyndell are clearly post-Shattering. Aligning with Godwyn's death.

It doesn't matter if the graves aren't physical.
That the Hornsent thought of burial as a standard method of body disposal enough to conjure spirit graves does nothing to dispute my point.
Pre-Erdtree cultures burying their dead is something that I said myself. The problem with that for you is that you assume that Marika just left all those around even in the most inconvenient locations. Like right outside her front doorstep.

The Eclipse as intended never happened.
Nothing more to say about that. It didn't happen and the setting is clear about that.
The dragons have no particular association with the sun, either.

The Fell God is irrelevant and has no greater meaning or consequence other than just being another God that the Greater Will fought against.
It's sun iconography is not an issue for Godwyn's connection to the sun because they're easily distinguishable.
Just like how the Hornsent wearing lion masks has no issue with identifying when a lion is representing Godfrey.

Miyazaki's vibes-based approach to lore finally backfired

>>724857349 (OP)
Too many effects and particles on the screen

>>724894838
That's controversial and true

>>724895153
It never backfires because this is how your mind puts together fiction.
Even a novel with a twist about the killer has the twist far removed from the initial hints about said twist. The aha moment doesn't happen if the information if just laid out in front of you.

Souls fans generally don't into media that isn't souls stuff so they rarely know this is how all media works.

I already fought Radahn so I expected an entirely new boss.

>>724894254
Never happened.
The Sun was dominated by the Erdtree, itself eclipsed.
It is implied heavily that Marika had a big role in killing Godwyn.
Him representing the Sun rising up once more is an obvious example of imagery.

>dude in armour again except recycled Radahn posing like an action figure
No idea. Clearly it's the very pinnacle of innovation and originality from this developer.

>>724895297
Same. I'm glad the dlc fight was nothing like the radahnbowl fight in caelid.
>>724895307
Sadly, the throne of the sun lies empty. Nothing can happen regarding it because it isn't culturally important to anyone anymore. Erdtree made sure of that and dumb Miquella never realized. What an idiot!

>>724895297
>we got scammed out of the Godwyn/Miquella fight
>got Radahn instead
>we got scammed out of the Godwyn's corpse fight
>got a fucking sunflower instead
Fuck this gay Earth

>>724857349 (OP)
I just hate it on every level, except maybe music.
>shitty aesthetic
>shitty lore
>shitty attack patterns that, at first, didn't even seem like they were designed by a human
>attacks your performance as well as your character
>explosive magic effects everywhere
>unintuitive hit boxes on most attacks

It's just garbage. Might as well be an AI-generated FromSoft boss.

>>724863452
Your hero is getting fucked up the ass by a TWIIIINK!

>>724894493
What's your source on this?

>>724895531
My hero is Miquella thoughbeit. His tragedy was kino.

>>724895267
Your mind does not put together every piece of fiction the way that Souls lore is written. Vibes-based lore is not about how it's presented, it's about how the story is actually written (first they come up with the locations and bosses, then they make up a story that ties them together).

Gael is still better.

>>724891935
The Surge is great, gameplay is Bloodborne with nanomachines instead of blood and the setting and story are somber, decent and vague like any proper Dark Souls clone. It is somewhat lacking in music though. DLC is optional, in this case i would go just for base game despite what this anon >>724894602 said

I do NOT recommend playing The Surge 2 though, gameplay is basically the same with some nice new ideas here and there, but then both the story and setting fucking sucks: a complete change into action-black comedy with generic antagonists and endings. I mean there are a couple of funny moments but after that It's basically a dumb expansion pack, better spend your money on something better

>>724895452
>Messmer marketed as the main thing i SotE
>Ends up as normal mandatory boss and a side villain

>>724895551
Not that anon, but it makes sense that gold is a conduit for electricity because irl gold is a fantastic conductor of electrical currents, but also you never see any symbol appear when the dragons do their lightning. Every other thing in the game that isn't a dragon that casts a spell has a wee symbol appear representing an evocation of the spell, presumably it's origins as well. Just from a logic standpoint, it does make sense.

>>724895616
Vibes based anything doesn't exist anon. The lore is structured like reference material intentionally. Lots of fiction does this.

>>724895626
Just like Maria and Artorias. Everyone still enjoys Messmer but they had high expectations over who was going to be fought next.

>>724864338
Are you sure that's not just the way of saying that they were literally devoid of physical light, instead of lacking some divine guidance?

>>724895626
It's a from dlc staple at this point
>ds1: artorias on cover art - manus it the final boss
>ds2: old iron king and sunken king dlcs - fume knight and singh are the final bosses
>bb: lady maria on cover art - orphan is the final boss
>sote: messmer on cover art - gaydahn is the final boss

>>724895830
It wasn't bad gameplay wise, but it seems an absolute miss that Mesmer had no interactions with Miquella or his plan at all

>>724895626
Messmer is still goated
My favorite From boss honestly

>>724895626
>very clear parallels to Malenia in imagery, his face, body, skin color, lack of eyes (in phase 2,) becoming enveloped in his true form after being pushed to his limit, forsaking everything he was charged with
>he wasn't even that difficult and his phase 2 wasn't even a full health bar
Dude. Maaaaaan. Fuck.

>>724895005
>Guess who else is soulless?
>Literally everyone else who die in the Night of the Black Knives.
Wrong
>We know Marika sacrificed her children.
She only "sacrificed" her children in the Shattering.
Godwyn is only "soulless" because Ranni saved his body from dying by killing her own, halting the Black Knives plan to have him reborn as Lord
>This doesn't disprove Godwynfags point.
Yes it does, because the Eclipse was about resurrecting an actual soulless demigod which would have brought the actual Eclipse because Ensha is actually connected to the Sun Realm.

Miquella wants to bring life to Ensha's bones because Ensha would be a guidance to those Lost in Death and dimming the light of the Erdtree, which would cause the souls to follow candletrees all the way to the Haligtree in the same way Rosus did in ancient times.
You can see the path Miquella laid out as well.

But there can only be one Prince of the Dead and this is why Miquella tries to kill Godwyn, using a Fundamentalist weapon meant to kill the Undead. Miquella never planned to ever resurrect Godwyn and wishes he never existed in the first place, which makes the Godwynfags drama even more hilarious because none of you retards understood the base game in the first place.

>>724895830
It's just maddening how Messmer is a dude we have to kill to get an item to advance and is not involved in the story in any way beyond that
At least Artorias and Maria are important in the overall scheme of things