Thread 3808390

I never played this when it first came out and I'm playing it now for the first time. I don't care about spoilers so I read stuff online. Why does literally everyone online hate Ulfric? It seems to be 10 to 1 people who side with the empire and they're really jingoistic about it too. I think part of the appeal of WRPGs is they try to present a neutral stance and give justifiable reasons to join factions so I'm surprised how one-sided it is for people.

>>3808390 (OP)
Based
>A-anonsama, you can't repost the same thread again, please!
>Anon-sama mercilessly fingers /vrpg/-kun as she moans helplessly, clear fluid joy streaming down her pubescent legs.
He can't keep getting away with it (he will).
He can't keep getting away with it.

>>3808390 (OP)
>handsome
>charismatic
>smart
>strong
>btfos elves and liberals
Chudfric is too based for them

>>3808390 (OP)
>Why does literally everyone online hate Ulfric?
Lefties with orange man bad derangement syndrome
>b-b-but he’s a RACIST

He's more or less an unaware tool supporting the (((Altmer's))) eternal quest to end the world.

>>3808390 (OP)
Because when you enter Windhelm there is a dumb evil white man bullying a poor black elf so Ulfric is a nazi and erasure of all cultures under the globohomo empire is the solution.

>>3808471
>Nords: you immigrants consume our resources, don’t assimilate, and refuse to help us in our war, because you are a separate population and will always retain a separate identity and separate interests
>Dark elf: but we haven’t joined your side because it’s not our fight!
Imagine literally restating your opponents argument in an attempt to refute it

>>3808465
The empire signed the white gold concordat, they are being run by the Thalmor overtly and legally. The Thalmor benefit from the civil war, not a free skyrim. Ulfric is based.

>>3808660
but but but the "dossier" says that the Thalmor tried to make him work for them and he refused, HE"S LITERALLY AN ASSET

>>3808666
bait this terrible doesn't deserve those digits

>>3808682
im retarded

>>3808660
The only thing that the concordat allows is religious control and implementation, and the Empire wants to kill them just as much as anyone else. The only reason they can't act is because they JUST had a massive war that drained both powers significantly.

>>3808829
>only religious control and implementation
buddy thats the only thing that matters, especially in the Empire founded by Tiber Septim

>>3808841
Nu-empire has no connection to the Septim bloodline, that's why it's collapsing. Humans should be uniting themselves, but I honestly don't know if people are entirely aware in-canon what the Aldmeri's end goal is.

>>3808842
I think Hammerfell and Skyrim could get the nobles of Daggerfall to rebel and join in a loose anti-aldmeri pact, maybe even black marsh and Morrowind would join. If the Khajiit learn the truth of the void nights they would join too. It wouldn't be another empire but could fight the Aldmeri Dominion. No centralised leader but a unifying cause.

>>3808847
Maybe, I mean Hammerfell was able to hold it's own (not that it has a tower for them Aldmeri to really care). I doubt Daggerfall will break off though, because not only is it heavily centralized after the Dragonbreak, but they've also always been depicted as a pretty heavy core territory of the Empire. That might change depending on how, or if, they decided on the civil war.
Actually, it's just sort of depressing thinking about future events of the series. TES6 will probably be garbage.

>>3808851
Supposing Skyrim gets independence then there would be no land route from Cyrodil to Daggerfall, and sea routes pass rebel provinces coastlines, and are just long as hell. Logistics would be terrible. Nobles may want more freedom and less taxes, and we know Daggerfall has a massive nobility and knightly caste.

Really don't understand how anyone could side with the empire. The entire aesthetics of the game basically demands that the player go Stormcloaks. The rugged snow-capped mountains, the Nordic warrior chanting. I mean it's called SKYRIM not Imperial Economic Zone #6.

>>3809176
Do you understand someone choosing a race that isn't nord?

>>3809184
>Do you understand someone choosing a race that isn't nord?
No.

>>3809184
I play Breton but I pretend that he is half nord. Even when I play high elf I give him a beard and pretend he is half nord and then join stormcloaks.

>>3809186
A little close-minded then

>>3809195
You like to dance close to the fire, don’t you?

>>3809196
Seen any elves lately? Hahaha

>>3808390 (OP)
Because he's an Aryan man who is objectively in the right in every possible way. If the story was kept exactly the same, but happened in Hammerfell and Ulfric was a redguard, 99% of redditors would be pro-Ulfric.

All the hate against Ulfric comes from the fact there is a "racist" in Windhelm, his town, who's not even part of his army, is completely right about the bitch he's insulting being a spy (and she's also a slaver who starves Argonians and makes racist comments towards them too), and is infinitely less racist than the average dunmer. It's all mentally ill leftists wanting to "protect da dark races against evil whitey" and ignoring everything that's going on.

>>3808537
This. Plus you can find one dunmer who owns a farm outside the walls and has Nords working for him, and he tells you plain and simple his race are just lazy whiners. And if you go to the dunmer inn, the little cunt in charge insults other dunmers for working for Nords, as if there was anyone else to work for around. And both him and his assistant are dunmer supremacist assholes who spit on the dead Nord woman who was kind to them.

>>3809176
>Really don't understand how anyone could side with the empire.
Without the slightest irony, this is the real answer: The common leftist/normie plays the game normally and sees the empire trying to kill them, he starts out thinking "they're probably the bad guys". They then eventually end up visiting Windhelm, they see "le racist nazi in the streets", and they think to themselves "oh I thought they could be the good guys, but there is an evil racist nazi in that town who says he supports the Stormcloaks, so they're obviously the bad guys, I'm so smart, people who hate the Empire are just butthurt about the intro sequence and do not have an incredibly high IQ like me to realize that racism is bad!".

Every single pro-empire you have ever interacted with has shut off their brains forever after encountering Rolff, they found le evil nazi racist, things are settled forever in their minds and no debate or thoughts is possible.

Because the game mostly depicts him as a bumbling incompetent.

>>3809260
Apart from getting captured in the intro, that's blatantly false. He's shown to be courageous, honest, honorable, capable of great resolve and perseverance (learning shouts with the Greybeards), to value the lives of both his soldiers and civilians, he personally chose Jorleif to be his steward because he tells him things straight with no ass licking, and he conquered half of Skyrim with diplomacy and the righteousness of his cause despite almost unlimited funds and efforts from the imperials to demonize him, going as far as to torture and execute people for supporting the Stormcloaks.

It's fascinating how blatantly right and morally good Ulfric is, and how all of that is discarded by commies because he belongs to the one race they hate and wish to genocide as their rabbinic overlords taught them.

>>3809222
fuck off the Empire/Emperor has been the sole force of stability for Tamriel for the entire series up to that point.

>>3809350
>has
Past tense.

From what I've seen, most Ulfric criticism can be organized into a few categories
>1. muh racist
>2. He's weakning the empire which just means everyone will lose to Thalmor in the end/he isn't a 4D chess player like me
>3. He's only in it because he's a narcissist/selfish/obsessed with power.
>4. He used a shout in the duel against the high king/betrayed the Greybeards

1 and 3 are too retarded to warrant a response. 4 I genuinely don't understand because what could be more appropriate than using a shout in a duel between two Nords.
2 is always presented as hard-hitting political analysis and as though Ulfric is simply unaware of the consequences of his actions, which seems like a total strawman. Also the Empire just got their ass kicked anyways so what difference does it make.

>>3809366
Correct.

>4 I genuinely don't understand
They seethe that the duel "wasn't fair" as in "but Ulfric was too strong!" which is exactly the point, or they ignore the Nords' custom and adopt the colonizer imperial viewpoint (peak irony) of "we make the rules, fuck their traditions".

2 is just retarded normies thinking the Empire is going to unite everyone (completely ignoring all the context of the game that shows why it will never happen) and very badly reading the Thalmor Dossier.

The thing is, normies aren't interested in facts, they just do what they do irl: repeat lugenpresse they just heard without the slightest ounce of critical thought. They heard someone who never met Ulfric say he's selfish? Then he is, done, no thinking needed. It's what they do for everything, muh empire getting back up, muh unfair duel, muh racism, muh helping the Thalmor...

>altmer playthrough
>join thieves guild to get money for college
>join college to learn magic
>join dawnguard to kill annoying vampires
>discover the bow of auriel
>akatosh himself is giving you his artifact, maybe there's something to these dragon prophecies
>start main quest
>join the stormcloaks to weaken the empire
>assassinate the emperor
>switch sides, have the weakened, emperorless empire win the war
>kill Miraak and fuck off into legends
>alternate between nightingale armor, mythic dawn robes and archmage robes + that last dragon mask when fighting Miraak
I can't really bring myself to play anything else after going through with this. Bethesda should have me as a writer.

>>3809176
because a Nord founded the Empire. it's the Empire of Man, not the empire of cyrodils

>>3809366
>4 I genuinely don't understand because what could be more appropriate than using a shout in a duel between two Nords.
Shouts are rare, bro used it on a boy king. Like using a nuke on a small country. Too OP, people get scared of a tyrant who can't control himself.

If he wanted to make a point about weak imperials, he could have mogged the boy without using shouts. Mistake on Ulfric's part. Not a good look. Desperate, even.

>>3809385
>t. redditor
The entire point of using the Voice is that it's an ancient Nordic art that proves Ulfric's faith to the Nordic tradition, his power and his virtue, it takes years of meditation and training to learn a single shout. Ulfric proved he was a true Nord, the truest Nord alive bar maybe the Dovahkiin if he's a Nord.

It's not a mistake, it's only portrayed as one by the imperial lugenpresse, and if he did not use a shout, then they'd make up that he stabbed Torygg in the back or fought dishonorable or some other lie.

>>3808390 (OP)
So the game sets it up so you're more likely to pick Stormcloaks at the start. You *can* go with the empire, but they just tried to cut your head off and its easier to find the stormcloak guy.

I suspect because of that the game put more effort into 'subverting' things by making Ulfric just kind of insufferable. He's basically a massive hypocrite, generally dishonourable and an obvious useful idiot for the Elves.

Some stuff Ulfric does which would annoy people, in no particular order.

He has the voice because he learnt it from the Greybeards - who swear to use it for peace. He obviously isnt' doing that so he's an oathbreaker. He uses it to kill the High King in a duel. A duel which 1) was not meant to be to the death 2) He could have won without the voice because he was just a better warrior than the king, so he denied the guy a fair fight for no reason 3) the king he killed actually respected him and had his own doubts and probably would have listened if Ulfric had just talked to him.
When you speak to the king post-death (it's complicated) he's now very pissed off at being dishonourably murdered by someone he liked and who left his wife a grieving widow.

(Usually magic is a big no no for Nords, it's seen as cowardly and dishonourable outside of restoration and using it in the duel is arguably just murder. The only reason his shouting the king apart wouldn't count would be because the voice is not called magic.)

In-universe the whole thing comes across as a pointlessly violent powergrab that was in no way necessary and makes people nervous of him. If Ulfric had just dueled him, won and then let the king live (usually the loser is exiled) as was tradition then he'd have been in the same or better position and probably have more widespread support. Instead he outs himself as a violent shithead.

CONT

>>3809389
He can prove his shouting ability without using it to kill the boy

>>3808390 (OP)
>>3809391
CONT

There's also a lot of 'what the fuck' about his war for independence. Go west and you will enter the Reach, full of a bunch of pissed off people called the Forsworn or Reachmen. They're pissed because *they* tried fighting for their independance and Ulfric was responsible of brutally war criming them into the ground, which has left them now a lot more ruthless and violent. So his own acts come across as hypocritical. Skyrim for the Nords but not Reach for the Reachmen.

The final thing is that the war between the Empire and Skyrim is weakening them both, when the Thalmor are the common enemy that wants both dead. The peace treaty the empire signed everyone views as just 'waiting until the next war starts' and the empire needs to be prepared and strong. Ulfric has started a violent rebellion and playing into the Thalmor's hands.

TL;DR - Ulfric could be viewed as a genuine rebel fighting for the independence of his homeland, or a hypocritical idiot who has started an unnecessary bloody civil war which is weakening his homeland and his homeland's longest ally just so he can seize power and murder people.

>>3809391
>Ulfric just kind of insufferable. He's basically a massive hypocrite, generally dishonourable and an obvious useful idiot for the Elves.
Go back to r*ddit

Your entire post is full of lies, and you blame Ulfric for breaking an oath when he did to protect the whole of humanity against the elves instead of adhering to the deranged teachings of a weak piece of shit who made up the rule that the Voice isn't for war just because he lost one.

>>3809393
He can, and many already knew about his ability, but doing it that way is an extremely powerful symbol, and only an imperial propagandist or a r*ddit retard would find any issue with the way the duel unfolded. Ulfric used the only legal means that exists to replace a weak and incompetent ruler (who spent all his time pillaging the State's coffins to entertain his wife and wasn't respected or liked by anyone), announced his intentions clearly, Torygg accepted the duel, and Ulfric won in the chaddest possible way, with the Empire able to do nothing but seethe and behead the janitor who opened the door (after no crime was committed) as petty revenge.

This thread is again proof that every human being is pro-Stormcloak, and everyone against them is a literal r*dditor.

If Ulfric's so strong, how come he surrendered to the imperial legion at the start of the game?

>>3809394
Replying only to inform the human beings, as you're just some r*dditor commie. Ulfric did not massacre the Reachmen, every evidence points to the father of the current Jarl of Markarth doing it. Not a single Reachmen, either outside or in Cidna Mine, blames Ulfric for the massacres, not one, they all only say "the Jarl", clearly referring to the one they knew, it makes no sense for the culprit to be Ulfric and not a single Forsworn to reference that.

The current Jarl is an atrocious piece of shit who blatantly admits Ulfric was betrayed, then acts shocked that Ulfric is pissed at this and didn't accept to meekly die to uphold the WGC's "peace". Ulfric did not have the authority to command massive war crimes against the Reachmen, and he didn't have a reason to, it was just a deal to him to restore the worship of Talos. The only (((evidence))) you have of Ulfric '"The Bear of Markarth) being guilty is an admitted imperial propaganda book written by an Imperial scholar in the Imperial city.

And spare me the dindu Forsworn, you don't in barely 25 years at most go to ubiquitous terrorism, ritualistic sacrifice of children, black magic including necromancy, hagravens, and constant massacre of everyone who isn't in their tribe for genuinely no reason such as the woman who was just bathing in a pond and got 15 arrows to the back. They were evil pieces of shit from the beginning, and Forsworns deserve to be exterminated to the last.

>>3809394
People who complain about Ulfric weakening the Empire really remind me a lot of that Democrat NPC "Come on we're going to fight Russia" meme.

>>3809400
>Ulfric won in the chaddest possible way
Imagine if he mogged him without using OP shit, that would be more chad.
>you're redditor you're redditor you're redditor
I side with stormcloaks, so this does nothing but make you look retarded.

>>3809400
If my post was full of lies you'd be actually pointing out the lies. Since it's not and is completely accurate you can't do that and instead choose to whine. Which is silly really because I'd be happy to discuss ES lore otherwise.

> of a weak piece of shit who made up the rule that the Voice isn't for war just because he lost one.

It's completely reasonable to say that the voice should not be restricted just to hanging out on a mountain not doing much. I'd agree myself.
The problem is not using the voice for war, but breaking oaths (religious ones in this case, which is a bit awkward for a stormcloak claiming religion to fight back). Most functioning societies see lying as bad.
I'd actually still be pretty okay with Ulfric using his voice in war since i'd want to put the lives of my soldiers first.
However using it on the High King was completely needless violence: he was protecting no one and didnt need it, so he's just completely going against everything the Greybeards teach. May as well piss on them too.

>>3809408
Indeed. Just gotta look at the malding r*dditor spewing the same tired judenpresse as they all do. Every Stormcloak hater is a genuine anti-Aryan deranged golem, they'd all be sucking his cock and claiming freedom for Wakanda if he was Tyrone Thundercock from Hammerfell.

Just further proof that they don't care about muh imperialism, they only hate it if it's Aryans doing it, when it's the mutt imperials oppressing Nords through ubiquitous terrorism and torture, suddenly it's all okay, but don't you dare make a mean comment about the dunmer darkies. You can't have any discussion with malevolent creaturas de la abominacion del obscuridad that only live to hate Aryans out of jealousy.

>>3809409
>this does nothing but make you look retarded.
what if he’s doing it on purpose?

>>3809419
What for?

>>3808829
>they JUST had a massive war
anon, that was 25 years ago.

>>3809222
anybody who doesn't go along with Ralof in the beginning is a comatose lobotomy patient. As if Hadvar would cut you loose like that (I mean he does but normally? In our world he most likely wouldn't.).

>>3810491
>that was 25 years ago.
That's about the time it takes for a government to fix a pothole

>>3810491
Imperials can't understand time, they legit cried to the janny tranny to give me a temp ban for calling them out.

>>3810491
Barely even a generation

>>3808390 (OP)
What a way to get a thread started
>guiz I don’t know about this big argument you’ve all been having. Can you rehash it for me?

>Empire agrees to ban Talos worship and lets (((Thalmor))) death squads wander the land and arrest, torture, and kill Talos worshippers
Empire is no longer legitimate. Simple as.

>>3810587
Talos himself in Morrowind says so. The Empire by the time of Skyrim is 200 years of constant losses under an illegitimate dynasty since the legitimate one is dead. The entire nobility and military is either infiltrated or actively cooperating, and the elite of the Empire can be summoned without contest, unarmed, to a secluded location surrounded by Thalmor soldiers. The Dominion can pull a red wedding on the Empire's elite before the first soldier even enters the battlefield, the Empire is utterly fucked.

The last chance for the Empire to redeem itself was to let Ulfric proclaim Skyrim's independence with a secret deal that he allows the Empire to organize plans for the next war against the Dominion there, and of course that Ulfric promise to help in that endeavor. Instead, they chose to pursue the suicidal endeavor of genociding the Nords for daring to want to fight the elves, thus crippling both Skyrim and the Empire. This shows the Empire doesn't plan to fight the Thalmor in at least the next 25 years if they're ready to go to such lengths to self-sabotage. The Empire tortures innocent civilians to death and feeds them to vampires rather than do anything about the pointy ears.

>>3810594
>let Ulfric proclaim Skyrim's independence
And the other provinces?

>>3810606
The Empire is literally just Skyrim, High-Rock and Cyrodiil. With Skyrim's independence, High-Rock factually is as well since no routes exist connecting it to Cyrodiil. Still, they should be on decent terms enough to help in the next war.

The Empire shills always adopt the false axiom that the Empire wants to fight back, but it's false, it's doing everything it can to avoid any fight in at the very least the next 15 years, and it's doing nothing to fix its crippled economy or corrupt nobility and military.

Important to remember that Lucan and his sister are in Riverwood because they fled Cyrodiil due to common bandits burning down main cities, it's how weak and pathetic the Empire is at this point. Also the same reason Cicero is in Skyrim.

>>3810611
>Still, they should be on decent terms enough to help in the next war.
>it's how weak and pathetic the Empire is
So it's a bit naive to think High Rock would be willing to sacrifice for a dying Empire

>>3810616
There is a difference between sacrificing yourself and allying yourself with other human races when the time for fighting comes. Plus High-Rock is specialized in magic, meaning they can be much less at risk than the frontline soldiers. Skyrim shuns magic currently, and Cyrodiil has had its magical institutions completely corrupted by nepotism and general incompetence.

>>3810617
>There is a difference between sacrificing yourself and allying yourself with other human races
Diverting resources and men to Cyrodiil weakens High Rock and leaves it vulnerable.

>>3810617
>Cyrodiil has had its magical institutions completely corrupted by nepotism and general incompetence
This common anti-Semitic canard has been repeatedly debunked

>>3810632
>leaves it vulnerable.
To who? Only the Aldmeri could be a threat, and if they send their main army to Cyrodiil or the fighting is taken to them, they won't have enough to try anything against High-Rock.

>>3810633
Kek

>>3810637
>>leaves it vulnerable.
>To who?
Consider what happens after the war. Or during.

>>3808390 (OP)
This conflict does a good job of outting right-wing nationalists as the lying death cult faggots they truly are.
>muh empire is decaying anyway
>muh chad Nords shouldn't debase themselves with Imperial politicking
>killing the High King based on ancient Nord traditions is based
Notice how these aren't real arguments based on any empirical evidence. They're just appealing to vibes. If you accept any notion of strategy at all, it's just fucking obvious that starting a whole ass Civil War while a hostile foreign power is preparing to conquer you is a really retarded idea. That's why said hostile foreign power is actively meddling behind the scenes to secretly support Ulfric and prolong the Civil War.

The real Stormcloak position is "I would rather die than accept any compromise to my way of life" but they're too chickenshit to actually say that because they know it would crater support. So instead they lie and insist they're so chad and manly that their rural backwater with limited manpower, resources, and industry can totally take on every foreign power at once. And stupid peasants with no knowledge of the military situation or outside world fall for it.

>>3810758
Weird schizo-babble.

>If you accept any notion of strategy
My notion of strategy is that you shouldn't let your entire elite be defenseless and surrounded by Thalmor soldiers whenever asked, your leaders shouldn't all be utterly compromised and openly collaborating gleefully with the enemy, your military shouldn't have Thalmor agents breathing down their necks every step to make sure they don't do anything the Thalmor don't want, and you shouldn't butcher your own army and allies and cripple yourself for the next 20 years when confronted with the choice.

Tell me how an Empire that is ruined, has no spy network like the Blades before, can't protect its main cities from common bandits, only lost territories and never won any in the last 200 years, has an entirely corrupt elite willingly collaborating, is ubiquitously spied on by Thalmors to the point making any sort of plan without their knowledge is impossible, has sent a clearly clueless and incapable of diplomacy general who almost caused mutinies because of his sheer arrogance, and has done nothing but capitulate for the last 25 years, is going to do anything?

The minute the Empire seriously tries to do anything, half its elite will be put to the sword, the plan will be found out, and the remaining elites will all either cower in fear or say "serves them right" about those who tried to resist and continue enjoying Thalmor money.

The Empire's only chance was collaborating with Ulfric, and they categorically refused. They'd rather destroy their own forces and allies than go against any Thalmor wishes. Genuinely all the Empire had to do was to let Skyrim become independent with an official oopsie, and make secret deals with Ulfric, that's all they needed to eventually win, but they relinquished that and chose to fight for the Thalmor, against humanity.

>>3810758
Life is vibes. Life is error and perspective and determination. Life is not accepting compromise. Stormcloaks do say "I would rather die than accept any compromise to my way of life" and that got them an army that is successfully fighting a continent spanning Empire.

>>3810758
are you that sissy from fnv threads who says caesar's legion is fascistic?
>muh empire is decaying anyway
the empire has not been legitimate since the death of martin septim, the game tells you as much every step of the way. the say it in morrowind for fuck's sake
>muh chad Nords shouldn't debase themselves with Imperial politicking
i don't even know what the fuck you're talking about. no, you shouldn't negotiate with elves who actively seek the destruction of the world
>killing the High King based on ancient Nord traditions is based
it's not "based" you fucking moron it's the way things go. it's not tradition, it's law. you can switch to saying you don't like the law but it's a retarded point.
lastly, learn some basic epistemology before using terms like "empirical evidence"

>>3811014
>empirical evidence
Empirical evidence is evidence that makes the Empire look good, duh

>>3808390 (OP)
Idk, I always side with stormcloaks because I'm a nord. Imperials tried to kill me and they wear skirts. They're pretty gay.

>>3809366
>muh racist
How's this even an argument to some people? Every race in elders scroll is racist against other races. Every race think they're better then every other race, just like real life.

>>3809409
>Imagine if he mogged him without using OP shit, that would be more chad.
What's more chad then blasting him away with a sonic boom voice? The game is literally about how chad a dragonborn is and how cool and powerful and respected the voice is. Oh look I can stab him with a sword, which anyone else can do, or I can be a badass and use this godly skill to show how powerful I am.

>>3811065
>How's this even an argument to some people?
Decades of conditioned self-loathing due to exposure to (((propaganda))) since childhood.

So, any fanfics where Harkon's plan goes to shit because either Alduin or Miraak find out and go 'fuck vampires'?

>>3811070
>What's more chad then blasting him away with a sonic boom voice? The game is literally about how chad a dragonborn is
Chad dragonborn uses his power to defend skyrim against dragons and the world eater

Virgin usurper uses his power against a boy king (who was symphatetic to his cause anyways and worshipped talos), divides skyrim and starts a civil war killing countless nords that end up as alduin's snacks for him to grow even more powerful

>>3811065
There are genuine threads on r*ddit debating whether the dunmer are oppressed jews or oppressed browns. Those "people" are just insane antifas aka anti-Aryans, and they hate the Nords for being Nordic, that's all. They don't care about and can't understand the context, universe, lore, or anything, darkie said, so darkie is right, whitey is bad.

>>3811070
Plus every guard in the kingdom being mesmerized at the idea when they talk about it "with his VOICE, shouted him apart".

>>3811296
>usurper
Entirely false, Ulfric challenged Torygg because it's the only legal way to remove a king, Torygg accepted with full knowledge and no tricks, and he lost, that's it.

>boy
The only reason he's called that is because of how much of a weak cuck he is, the guy in his 30s.

>sympathetic to his cause anyways
What does it matter if he does nothing about it? And that sentence comes from his vampire nanny who mindcontrolled him and tells you one sentence later that "akshually the Empire is entirely necessary for Skyrim and Torygg understood that".

>divides skyrim
Half the country rallied him diplomatically, it's the Empire that led coup to oust legitimate Jarls and replace them with absolute scum like Siddgeir, tortured countless innocents to stop any talk of independence and practiced general terrorism.

>killing countless nords
All on the Empire, those Nords would have died to Thalmor terrorism and Imperial incompetence anyway.

As always, Empire stans are pathological liars antifas. Everything they say is a putrid lie, and they still act as if they've got some moral high ground, because that is how egalitarians think. "Me perfect good because Jew-psyop-46 said it, everyone who disagrees has a mental illness".

>>3811298
>a weak cuck
Oh no better use my shout powers to kill him, otherwise I might not win and flee through the back door and lose the support of half of skyrim for acting like a future tyrant

>>3810758
I love how Skyrim is both a rural incompetent backwater and an essential component to imperial victory depending on which shitbag leftist doublethink argument is currently being deployed.

>>3811729
>rural incompetent backwater and an essential component to imperial victory
Rural folk can make for hardy warriors

The shout thing is weird. The common people seem totally mystified by what happened, like they don't even know what Thu'um is.
At the same time, the existence of the Greybeards seems to be general knowledge, so I don't know how they couldn't know.
I guess it is kind of a lost art that they would never witness normally. But then how was Ulfric identified as gifted and sent to train with the Greybeards? There are only 4 of them, has no one else been trained besides them and Ulfric?

Nords suck empire suck. I always play a highelf. Stupid fucking humans just let everything goto shit, let the thalmor win and reestablish some authority.

Ulfric is a dumb redneck who got in way too deep, forcing him to start a stupid civil war he can never win. The empire are completely useless and have been for a while. Martin Septim was a shit head who should have done more to prepare for the oblivion crisis, instead all he does is make bastard sons. The last good ruler of the empire was a highelf.

Thalmor aren't perfect but they got their shit together after the crisis. They're the only other power actually able to maintain an alliance between different regions. Humans had their chance and they blew it.

>>3811736
Because almost no one knows how use Shouts, because the Greybeards are very reclusive and it takes massive efforts to learn anything. Ulfric was nobility, which must have helped in being recruited, and the Greys don't want their art to die with them so they taught it. Young Ulfric showed he was already wise, patient and studious, and those are the necessary qualities to learn.

>>3811729
That's what happens when you speak to any variety of egalitarian aka leftist. They are religious fanatics incapable of any rational thought, they always posit as an axiom that their opponents cannot possess a single positive quality, which leads to the constant TDS thinking of "Trump is a stupid 60 IQ clown, and also a master manipulator coordinating 200 evil secret plans at the same time".

Let's take Jorleif, it is a fact that Ulfric chose him, that he listens to his advice, and that he specifically wanted him because he's not a boot-licker but a man of the people who will tell him what they think. Purposefully choosing someone who will go against your ideas to weight their validity and not be blinded by yes-men, can only be called wisdom, Ulfric is objectively wise. But no, commies will systematically go NUH UH and stop at that.

Same deal with Ulfric showing his doubts about the civilians and soldier's lives he'll put at risk by attacking Whiterun, Ulfric is directly making the case for why an attack could be bad, how innocents could be killed in it, and Galmar has to be the one to convince him. Ulfric is objectively compassionate, this is a private meeting with Galmar, he doesn't have the slightest reason to lie.

Another important thing that shows how anti-Skyrim the Empire is: it never entertains that Ulfric has a righteous cause in any way, shape or form. Tullius, the most trusted military man on the most important conflict the Empire could face, a conflict that could reduce the number of countries in the Empire from 3 to 1, is not only an anti-Nord narrow-minded retard who keeps losing soldiers genuinely only because he underestimates Ulfric due to anti-Nord racism (while openly admiring Elenwen and saying she'd make a fine imperial soldier), but when Rikke says "Every day, more join Ulfric's cause" he instantly answers "It's not a cause, it's a rebellion!".

The Empire fundamentally thinks Skyrim's destiny is to be the Empire's bitch, that Nords are subhumans who deserve to be slaves or dead.

>>3808390 (OP)
people view Ulfric as representing real life populists like Trump, Le Pen, or Farrage

the bug people engaging in most online discussion spaces like Reddit consider themselves to be smart, and in their minds populism is an inherently dumb ideology

>ummm doesn't Ulfric know that he's weakening the Empire??????
>umm he's just helping the elves!!!

When Skyrim came out, everyone was playing on the side of Stormcloaks. But now we live in a time of unbelievable faggotry, so now the common sentiment is that Empire is heckin' greater good.

The REAL answer is that whatever side I pick is going to murder the High Elves because the Dragonborn is the future God King of men, as was the case in eras past.

I am a deep cover Thalmor operative. My mission is to make sure 80-IQ no-magic apes don't get to eternally imprison all sentient life in a metaphysical prison for petty retarded reasons such as muh tax revenue (empire) or muh talos (stormcloaks). I am the escaped prisoner.

>>3818657
>people view Ulfric as representing real life populists like Trump, Le Pen, or Farrage
I've always maintained, if the story happened in Hammerfell with Tyrone Thundercock leading the rebellion, all those faggots would be screaming "free wakanda" endlessly. It's all anti-Aryan hate that fuels anti-Ulfric sentiment, the man is genuinely undeniably perfect.

>>3810506
>anybody who doesn't go along with Ralof in the beginning is a comatose lobotomy patient.
This
Bethesda messed up the introduction to the civil war in the game into, you start off in a cart next to a Stormcloak lieutenant who talks about how great Ulfric is, then when you get into town the empire immediately tries to execute you despite not being on the list. You get a whole load of reasons to support the stormcloaks, meanwhile you have you purposely go well out of your way later in the game to find out the imperials reasoning, while the stormcloaks never do anything close to as bad to the player character (even the rasicm as a dark elf is incredibly minor, especially when compared to prior games). It goes from two flawed factions each with their own good reasons to something completely one sided, unless you go into the game planning to play an empire loyalist there's really no rp reason as to why you'd support the empire.
On top of that Skyrim was the first elder scrolls game for tons of people, so their first ever experience with the empire was it trying to kill them.

>>3818796
>Bethesda messed up
Considering there's still arguments, they did a good job

The empire had been prominent in earlier games fighting usurpers, so scales needed to be tipped towards the newly introduced rebellion.

>>3818796
You underestimate how much normies are afraid of the le racist boogeyman. Just look at their utter misanthropy, they genuinely think it's more moral to want to exterminate every single person on Earth than to kill one nigger while saying "I hate niggers!".

Normies get to Windhelm, see le oppressed wahman of color, and instantly join the Empire. They're not arguing in good faith or from a sane viewpoint, that single interaction when they enter Windhelm genuinely has them think "omg Ulfric is literally Adolf Hitler!!!!" and they stay stuck in this forever. The hate against Ulfric is just a variation of TDS, all empire supporters are utterly deranged and incapable of rational discourse.

>>3818800
>Considering there's still arguments,
Fair point, but It's been 14 years at this point, anyone who still cares enough to argue has played both sides, mulled over the arguements and become desensitised to the intro, while new(er) players have had time to go back and explore the older games. These arguements are due the other parts of the game being compelling for some people, and in spite of the intro.
>The empire had been prominent in earlier games fighting usurpers, so scales needed to be tipped towards the newly introduced rebellion.
This assumes people played the previous games, which for most first time players of Skyrim wasn't the case. But even for those who had, there's been a 200 year timeskip, who knows how the empire has changed?
>>3818813
I think people care about fantasy racism less than you make out, and even less back in 2011. But it's irrelevant since even that isn't displayed in the intro, and first impressions are everything. A first time player would find themselves in Windhelm and likely already committed to the stormcloaks before they even discover it, nor is there anything that affects the player to cause any RP opportunities, so it just goes back to my argument with the previous anon.
There could've been a Valen Dreth-esque stormcloak in the intro who'd mock your choice of race or something idk
>all empire supporters are utterly deranged and incapable of rational discourse.
Go outside

>>3818832
>I think people care about fantasy racism less than you make out, and even less back in 2011. But it's irrelevant since even that isn't displayed in the intro, and first impressions are everything. A first time player would find themselves in Windhelm and likely already committed to the stormcloaks before they even discover it
Speak to any pro-empire, they always think the exact same thing: "The intro made me pro-Stormcloaks, but entering Windhelm made me realize Ulfric is le bad, and Brunwulf is so le good antifa like me, therefore empire good, if you no support empire, you big dumb tricked by the intro, you don't have a very high IQ like me to realize you were tricked!"

They aren't humans, ALL the arguments against Ulfric are because he's a Nord, if he was a Redguard, they'd be sucking him off. They're all jewed out of their minds.

>Go outside
Tranny seething. Imperial supporters are antifa, plain and simple, they hate Ulfric for being Aryan because their programming is that browner = gooder.

>>3818854
>people aren't human if they disagree with my interpretation of babby's first RPG plot written for teens
lol

>>3818868
Like clockwork

Skyrim is my favorite eroge game.
;p

>>3808445
and retards with no reading comprehension that saw the word asset

>>3818880
And awful translations in some languages, in French it was translated to "sleeper agent".

>>3808445
But yeah, this is the answer. It's all mental illness, they just use the normie behavior of repeating their lie endlessly to try and manifest it as truth, 90% of videos that mention Ulfric on youtube can't help but call him a "racist" constantly.

And he would be perfectly justified to be, but he is factually not. Same deal as the normies hating on Derek Chauvin and portraying him as an "evil racist murderer" when he was just a zogbot who did everything by the book and the nigger ODed literally on camera and said he couldn't breathe multiple times before anyone touched him.

Normies are just deranged commies and want to kill you the moment you express independent thoughts instead of following the herd. Arguments are worthless to them, and anytime you oppose them, they'll try to shame you into submission, they do it on all threads including this one.

>>3808390 (OP)
>Why does literally everyone online hate Ulfric?
He's racist and so are the stormcloaks. That's why no one sides with them and they suck. Being racist is evil and most people don't like playing as the evil guys. Hope that explains it.

>>3808445
>>3808471
>>3808660
>>3808666
>>3809216
>>3809391
>>3809400
>>3810758
>>3818796
>>3820878
For me the decision was really simple:

The Empire are the guys who wanted to behead me for no fucking reason.
Like, Zero.

All I did was cross the border and apparently this was enough to casually warrant my execution.
Obviously as I am running for my life after the dragon attack I dont side with the dude who just a second earlier went "Oh yeah, you are going to be executed for no reason, sucks to be you. my bad bro ".

This already frames in my head that the Imperial Influence is callous at best and completely indifferent about injustice or cruelty at worst.
And this continues throughout the game. In Whiterun I encounter a family whose family members were taken away by the secret elf police for following the wrong faith and members of the rival family who snitched on them gleefully mock them for it.
During travels I encounter a shrine of Talos where a secret police Elf massacred a bunch of Nord citizens or the secret police transporting prisoners to god knows where to never be seen again.
In Solitude I witness the execution of a guard whose only crime seems to be that he didn't close the gate fast enough and allowed Nord-Hitler to flee and because the Imperium needs a scapegoat he gets promptly murdered.

My point being that unless you are a total leftist NPC whose only problem seems to be "nationalism bad!" the game shows you exactly zero reasons in-Character to side with the Imperium or even consider the Imperial Rule of Skyrim a benevolent rule or a good thing.

Ergo: If you think that Imperial Rule is better for Skyrim after having played the game you are a metagamer.

>>3820892
>My point being that unless you are a total leftist NPC whose only problem seems to be "nationalism bad!" the game shows you exactly zero reasons in-Character to side with the Imperium or even consider the Imperial Rule of Skyrim a benevolent rule or a good thing.
This. Imagine if the Greymane capture was a dunmer being tortured by Nords, the faggot normies would never shut up about it, but since it's a Nord tortured by elves, it's never a subject in any capacity, never mentioned anywhere. The jewish leader of the Battle-Born calls a grieving grandma a "old hag" and boldly lies to her face while knowing her grandson is being tortured at this very moment and he threatens her that she could end the same.

But no, the only thing r*dditors care about is the dunmer bitch who's a literal slaver who enslaves Argonians and makes racist comment on them, but she's a darkie so she's perfect and dindu nuffin.

Skyrim is a perfect litmus test for discerning who is pro-Aryanity, and who is an insane fag antifa desperate to kill every single Aryan to stick it to Hollywood Hitler. It's all about race, if the game was set in Hammerfell Wakanda, they would all be for the resistance.

And as them trying to kill you shows, they're a terrorist organization. They have multiple expert torturers in their ranks including vampires draining you to death, they execute people left and right for no crimes, they allow the kidnapping and torture of citizens, they deposed a legitimate ruler in Falkreath to replace him with a scumbag who makes money off his own people being butchered by bandits, they refuse to recognize Ulfric has a valid cause to fight for, they directly lie to their supposed allies as Tullius orders Rikke to do in her letter to Balgruuf, meanwhile Ulfric is never seen lying a single time, they butcher innocent healers who do not pose any threat as we hear from the Snow-Shod losing their daughter... TLDR is, terrorism is fine when against Aryans, that is r*ddit morality.

Maybe, MAYBE, if the game had a little more nuance to it a case for joining the Stormcloaks could be made, but as things stand now (and especially with insight into real life politics), you'd have to be a complete dumbass to not join the Empire of Man. I say nuance because in a game like New Vegas you can potentially find reasons to align with Caesar's Legion as opposed to House, NCR makes no sense.
I imagine the people who join Stormcloaks are hillbilly Americans who say Eastern European shitholes are based for voting far-right candidates, for having a lot of churches etc. I am a Christian from an Eastern European shithole, the churches are unfortunately empty and often used to launder money, the voting block for the far right candidates are toothless stinky peasants who talk of God while robbing and camwhoring and think their village priest wrote the Bible. Kind of like the drunk and smelly Stormcloak guards in Whiterun, and Heimskr who directs you to libraries if you ask him about Talos.
The Empire was founded by men, for men, and elves and beast folk were allowed in. The White-Gold Concordat will be meaningless by the time the Empire-supporting Dragonborn, with Thu'um, Dragon and Blades by his side will join the fight.

>>3821064
>you can potentially find reasons to align with Caesar's Legion as opposed to House, NCR makes no sense.
Weak ragebait.
>I am a Christian
Apologies, you are just that retarded

>>3821064
>Maybe, MAYBE, if the game had a little more nuance to it a case for joining the Stormcloaks could be made
Stopped reading here

>>3821072
>Apologies, you are just that retarded
you have no way to account for epistemology, metaphysics or ethics without the Christian God. but keep sipping monster kiddo

>>3821077
>Muh morality

>>3821081
>the reading comprehension of the atheist

>>3821086
Funny pic, but doesn't change the previous posts.

>>3821092
nothing to refute, no point was made.
not only can you have no consistent base for ethics (i.e. 100 years ago it was immoral to "change your gender", today it's moral much to your delight); you have no way to ground metaphysics (how do you know the classical laws of logic are true everywhere and at all times, what assures your desk won't become a frog if all that exists is matter), how do you know anything at all (and that we don't live in a matrix duuuude)
hope you go look it up but you won't find any reasonable, consistent answers because atheists are stuck at the reasoning level of a 15 year old who's just discovered weed

>>3821098
>I believe in jewish stories, therefore my gut intuition is correct
The pic that you conveniently ignore already answered that pilpul, all your questions and assumptions are based on a false axiom. Cope and seethe, yeshuah never existed, saulstianity is jewish, the Stormcloaks are the objectively correct choice, so is the NCR.

>>3821106
>I believe in jewish stories, therefore my gut intuition is correct
no one's ever had that position in the church. you might think something is moral, check with the Bible and have to change your position.
go back to spreading your cheecks to moloch bal

>>3821064
>I am a Christian from an Eastern European shithole
In Skyrim, the equivalent of Jewish Bolsheviks now control a puppet government that banned the worship of the Christ, and death squads now seize and torture Christians, forcing worship underground. There’s your nuance, bro.

>>3821111
Cope

>>3821114
This.

Who would win in a political argument on Twitter: Stormcloaks, or Dumbledore's Army?

>>3821114
The analogy would work if the Elves were a subversive group working within the Empire seeking to undermine it, not a military force who won a war. Thalmor then would be more like the Ottoman Empire, who did also ban the worship of Christ within conquered nations, and the satellite states would have been stupid to fight each other rather than regroup, reconquer their lands and reinstate Christianity (which is what happened in real life and is the stated goal of the Empire in TES)

>>3821115
typical /pol/tard is complete unable of thinking any thoughts, stating any arguments by himself so he resorts to posting walls of text and replying >this to posts he thinks vaguely agree with him.

>>3821121
>is the stated goal of the Empire in TES
Bait or retardedness.

The empire had 25 years to rebuild, during which they did nothing. Ulfric's rebellion was the ultimatum to the empire's status quo: either they butcher their own citizens crippling themselves for the benefit of the elves (thus adding at least an entire 20 years more necessary to recuperate when they did jack in the last 25 and only became weaker to the point Cyrodiil citizens are fleeing to Skyrim), or they made a deal with Ulfric to secure Skyrim's help in the next war and use the province as a base of operations away from Thalmor eyes.

The empire chose option 1. So they're ruined, the Blades are gone and replaced by a worthless ersatz, the nobles are overwhelmingly corrupt and collaborate for their own profit with the elves, the military is crippled and watched from every angle, the elites can be forced to come unarmed to a room in the middle of nowhere surrounded by Thalmor guards, and even the Council wants to kill the Emperor.

Give me one reasonable logical scenario of how the empire would fight back, that accounts for why they chose to butcher their own potential army by refusing to ally with Skyrim and instead deciding to massacre them (including even their healers).

>>3821123
Seriously Moshe? The Odin fake? Fucking hell, you suck at your job.

>>3821126
>Bait or retardedness.
>The Empire is in no position to fight the Thalmor right now. That doesn’t mean we like it- Tulius
>"Talos be with you" - Rikke
>Elisif sending you to a shrine to Talos

>Ulfric's rebellion was the ultimatum to the empire's status quo
Ulfric's rebellion happened strictly because the Thalmor jewed him into believing he had a chance to win, in order to disrupt the Empire
>25 years
So, the time needed to raise a new generation of warriors
>Blades are gone
Rebuilt by Dragonborn
>the nobles are overwhelmingly corrupt
Who do you mean, the Silver-Bloods? The dumbass Skald, or for that matter, all of the incompetent Stormcloak aligned Jarls?
>muh Black-Briar
Allowed and encouraged to do her business by a Stormcloak supporter
>the military is crippled and watched from every angle
as opposed to the Stormcloak army of 10.000 strong
>the elites can be forced to come unarmed to a room in the middle of nowhere
just as many Stormcloaks are liable to appear there
>even the Council wants to kill the Emperor.
and you accuse me of pilpul. One member of the council does. And even then, yea, every empire had weak emperors.
>that accounts for why they chose to butcher their own potential army by refusing to ally with Skyrim
Skyrim is the one doing that you complete retard, half of the Nords are pro-empire and they cheer when they kill their brothers because they're retarded unlettered hillbillies with stinky breaths (canon). As for the reasonable scenario, I've given it a few posts above.
>the odin fake
unfortunately the pagans were retarded unlettered hillbillies with stinky breaths so we have no original source from them to confirm. why ought we act like pagans?

>>3821139
The sheer hate against Aryans in this post just proves my posts even more. I sometimes wish it wasn't so easy to be right, but the world truly is black and white on so many things. As always, if Ulfric was Tyrone Niggercock rebelling in Hammerfell, you'd suck his cock for yeshuah.

A degenerate jew worshiper with blatant anti-Aryan racism, there is no point in arguing, liars can't be argued with, they can only be hanged.

>>3821143
good talk
whiter than you by the way

>>3821145
>East European
>whiter than you

>>3821149
>t. true aryan, pic related
see you outside the city walls, stop dealing moon sugar

>>3821151
>Mexican and Romani ancestry
I'm a pure blood Celto-Germanic French, East Euros can't compete

>>3821158
And what's the other 60%, mutt?

>>3820892
>The Empire are the guys who wanted to behead me for no fucking reason.
>Like, Zero.
Do you really not understand why they'd want to execute you?

>>3808390 (OP)
Because he's an idiot.
The entire plan was, the Empire got bloodied in a war with the Aldmeri Dominion and needed to catch its breath. Elves breed slower, mature slower, so the Empire could regain its strength over 20, 30 years, and be in a better position for round 2.
In order to secure these years, the Empire signed a treaty that made certain things illegal, namely the open worship of Talos as a god. Importantly, the OPEN worship of Talos as a god. There was nothing really stopping you from worshipping Talos in your own home. The Storm loads threw a shitfit over this, and demanded to do it in the open. Now the Thalmor are here and ACTUALLY enforcing the treaty.

All the Nords had to do was sit, chill, and play cool for a couple decades, but they couldn't do that. Then, Ulfric is, by all accounts, a Thalmor asset. Not an agent, but, someone who is acting to their advantage, and may or may not have been maneuvered into position by Thalmor agents. The Aldmeri Dominion WANTS the Skyrim civil war, because it weakens the empire.
The Stormcloaks as an organization are retarded. They're having a sissy fit over having to be chill and lay low for a bit, and are actively sabotaging their own interests because they're stupid. They're actively playing into the hands of the Aldmeri Dominion in the bigger picture. The Aldmeri Dominion, to be clear, is bad. Not JUST because they're obnoxiously evil elves that need their nuts kicked, but because they're actively, literally, trying to destroy the world by fulfilling acts of cosmologic prophecy to do so. Ulfric himself is a cat's paw, and is kind of an asshole besides.
Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are just not playing for the best interest of anyone by the Aldmeri Dominion. The only reason the Thalmor are even here, is because of them. The only reason the civil war is happening, is because of them. The only reason the Empire isn't ready for round 2, to kick some elf ass, is because of them

>>3821123
Why do historically illiterate faggots always post this shit? In that very same book the author claims red heads are descended from Aliens and is an absolute retard. Its literally schitzo posting dragged out into a book.
>>3821139
The Nords are in no danger from being invaded by the Elves, and their neighbors to the south west of them, the Kangz, are beating the absolute dogshit out of them despite being significantly closer to them and having an easier access via sea and land routes. Considering the Stormcloakes are the pretty much the only people in game to wear any effective armor, even if its layered wrong, they have a huge advantage right off the bat.

>>3821795
>There was nothing really stopping you from worshipping Talos in your own home.
Except, you know, foreign agents who are allowed to roam freely across the empire and enforce religious laws.
>The Aldmeri Dominion WANTS the Skyrim civil war, because it weakens the empire.
They want it to be dragged out, not won decisively one way or the other. Skyrim being independent is probably one of the worst things to happen because its such a massive pain in the dick to attack. The only land route requires you to cross multiple countries, a few hostile just to get through a small pass which can be blocked off in its entirety. The sea route is arguably just as bad as they have to fight both Skyrim's navy, the sand niggers who had already broken free and pass through treacherous ice caps. Its also a long fucking journey that would stretch their supplies to the limit.
>The only reason the civil war is happening, is because of them.
The reason the civil war is happening is because the highest form of government bent over and took it from a hostile foreign faction and outlawed the biggest historical/religious figures.

>>3821817
>because the highest form of government bent over and took it from a hostile foreign faction
Yes
Because the alternative was everybody dies. Versus wait a few decades, suffer a little indignity, then win.

>>3821822
>Because the alternative was everybody dies.
That was pretty much never on the table. The high elves don't have the manpower or logistics to wipe the board clean, they don't even have the ability to fight and win against their next door neighbors who separated from the Empire and were in the middle of their own civil conflict.

i was totally fucking done with ulfric when that guy tried to get me to kill jarl bulgruuf, i literally rewinded several saves and decided fuck this guy, he's an insane dictator

the game puts you in a damned if you do damned you don't situation because ulfric is a racial supremacist but the imperials deny the divinity of tiber septim (and unlike physical reality where you can be an atheist if you want, there's hard evidence the gods actually exist in the world of tamriel)

>>3821856
>there's hard evidence the gods actually exist in the world of tamriel)
Where's the proof in Skyrim? (For a player character to observe)

>>3821861
You can walk up to a random altar of a deity, say hello, and immediately be purged of disease, and receive a free buff for your effort.
You can put on necklaces dedicated to those same gods, that are not enchanted in any traditional way, and gain power from them. This is something that literally any person with legs can do.
Though, interestingly, besides purging disease, the one for Talos won't actually have a measurable difference for the average person, since most people don't have the Thu"um

>>3821864
That's placebo

>>3821864
also there are evil or questionable deities who you walk up to their statue and it just kinda starts talking

also like the first 5 minutes of the game when alduin, first born of akatosh, starts skullfucking the world

also like the first 5 seconds of combat when you shoot fire out of your hands

>>3821945
>also like the first 5 minutes of the game when alduin, first born of akatosh, starts skullfucking the world
>also like the first 5 seconds of combat when you shoot fire out of your hands
Placebo

>”oh cool a Skyrim thread”
>look inside
>”everyone who disagrees with me is a Jew that hates Mexican Aryans like me!”

Do /pol/tards really have no other thoughts?

>>3821966
no. they're shitting up s4s too lately

i finally filtered the gamer word (and troon as well) without ever filtering anything in my entire time using this site, and holy shit it makes /pol/ entertaniing to read

like 1/3 of the board is filtered, it's easy to tell whose opinion to throw in the garbage

>>3821830
>That was pretty much never on the table
That's the sole reason the concordant was signed. If there was any other (safer) alternative, they would have taken it. If the empire together couldn't take them on surely now that skyrim is independent and has fewer troops, resources, and intel, they'll have a harder time doing it.
>But what about muh hammerfell
The dominion was weakened by the war with the empire, and they both signed a treaty. Now that they are alone, they can just completely focus on hammerfell (or skyrim if it becomes independent) and win. Also, redguards are built different.

>>3821795
>The entire plan was, the Empire got bloodied in a war with the Aldmeri Dominion and needed to catch its breath. Elves breed slower, mature slower, so the Empire could regain its strength over 20, 30 years, and be in a better position for round 2.
Brilliant 4D chess plan from the elite intellectuals in the imperial capital. You can tell you are dealing with elite strategic thinkers, nothing like flyovers in Skyrim. There is no way the elves will figure out our master plan.

>>3808390 (OP)
It's funny because back in 2012 it was the exact opposite and every normie sided with the Stormcloaks because of the marketing going hard on the whole Nord pride thing. Us Empire chads have had the last laugh.

>>3808390 (OP)
The introduction has the empire trying to execute you. Anyone siding with them has no self worth.
The introduction then splits after a chaotic chase. The path you pick follows an NPC from one side or the other. You won't even realize there were two paths and you made this choice. So right away you get a biased view.
The empire is then said to be fighting the racist nords making the empire like a homing beacon to those same retards who have no self worth.

Skyrim came out in 2011.
That's how fucking dead gaming is. Even with Bethesda totally absent, nobody took their place.

>>3808390 (OP)
Back in 2011 more people sided with Ulfric but that was when normies were still part of the discussion and they liked le epic Vikings against the le evil empire trope that had been drilled into their psyche since birth. Among the incel virgin neckbeards who stuck around the fandom till 2025 and understand the finer nuances of Skyrim’s politics, they mostly side with the imperials.

>>3822056
Bethesda is unironically one of the best AAA devs. Nobody else could have re-released a game from 20 years ago like Oblivon with only a few days notice and have it do better than the current 2025 AAA titles coming out at the same time. Plus a lot of the OG talent is still left, unlike Ubisoft, BioWare, or Rockstar.

There’s a reason there is no such thing as a fucking “Ubisoft fanboy” like there are intense Bethesda fanboys in 2025z

>>3822033
t. R*lof

>>3808660
>The Thalmor benefit from the civil war
>Ulfric is based
Pick one, because it's Ulfric who decided to divide Skyrim further by inciting it into open war

>>3822075
>a lot of the OG talent is still left
Where the fuck were they while making F4 and Starfield. Also it's rather sad Emil counts as "old talent" nowadays

>>3822082
They were obviously going for some kind of daggerfall in space shit with Starfield. Sometimes old talent just sucks or as bad ideas.

>>3820892
>The Empire are the guys who wanted to behead me for no fucking reason
Maybe next time don't cross the border illegally looking like a hobo
>In Whiterun I encounter a family whose family members were taken away by the secret elf police for following the wrong faith
Thorald was taken as a prisoner of war following a battle, not kidnapped in his sleep in town. Play the game you like to talk about
>During travels I encounter a shrine of Talos where a secret police Elf massacred a bunch of Nord citizens or the secret police transporting prisoners to god knows where to never be seen again
Thalmor ≠ Empire
>In Solitude I witness the execution of a guard whose only crime seems to be that he didn't close the gate fast enough
Maybe don't speedread next time around, then, because Roggvir didn't just "not close the gate fast enough", he purposefully opened the gates to let specifically Ulfric in, then he specifically opened them again to let him escape after he killed the High King and was running away. To mischaracterize his acquiescence to political murder with "he was just another regular guard that happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and used as le scapegoat" is objectively false
>If you think that Imperial Rule is better for Skyrim after having played the game you are a metagamer
You don't seem to even remember the game you're talking about

>>3821977
>That's the sole reason the concordant was signed
It was signed because the Empire is shit and is a dying empire without the will to actually do anything. They can't even properly attack their neighbors. Do you see the massive disparity in equipment in game? One side is wearing literal leather fetish gear larping as Romans, while the other has actual armor.
> Now that they are alone, they can just completely focus on hammerfell/Skyrim and win
Again, not happening. They got pushed out of Hammerfell, alone, and are in the process of being purged from Skyrim. In order to even reach Skyrim they would have to march an army through at least one hostile province. possibly two, to get there. The alternative is to sail west, through hostile waters and bank all their supplies over the water through Skyrim's icy seas, or sail east ALL the way around the continent and land somewhere in Morrowind, which is in the middle of its own crisis or try to establish an area on Skyrims shores. Its just not happening bud.

>>3821062
>Americans try not to be obsessed with /pol/ politics, challenge impossible
Pottery. Also
>they butcher innocent healers who do not pose any threat as we hear from the Snow-Shod losing their daughter
As said in >>3822094, please play the fucking games you like to yap about
>"May I ask why you're in mourning?"
>"It was my sister, Lilija. She served as a Battle Maiden with the Stormcloaks"
So she was a combatant in a war, a NORDIC BATTLE MAIDEN, but because she knew a couple Restoration spells she's suddenly a dindu healer protected under the Geneva Convention?

Reminder Tullius was only meant to be in Skyrim for a few months and was not equipped for a war
Reminder the "Imperial Legion" in Skyrim isn't the actual Cyrodilic Legion, but rather locally recruited Nords and farmers and stuff
Reminder the Stormcloaks are scared shitless of the actual Legion showing up from down south and they're not equipped to deal with it
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Stormcloak_Missive_(Fort_Neugrad)
Reminder even with all of the above, the Empire had still won the civil war by the time the game starts and it took a literal deus ex machina dragon god appearing outta fucking nowhere for Ulfric to not be beheaded right there and then

Kneel

>>3811936
>Same deal with Ulfric showing his doubts about the civilians and soldier's lives he'll put at risk by attacking Whiterun
Funny, because Stormcloak soldiers do attack Whiterun guards totally unprovoked by default. What about that? Maybe if the Stormcloaks weren't attacking Balgruuf's men before Whiterun picked a side. Maybe if Ulfric wasn't planning for an invasion of Whiterun if Balgruuf said "No", maybe he'd have considered the Stormcloaks.
Or what about when Balgruuf sends the Nord equivalent of an olive branch to Ulfric and he rejects it?
>"Yes. Give the man my axe. If he returns it to you, it means we have business to settle. If he keeps it, then we are at peace"
When the ball is in his court, Balgruuf gives Ulfric the opportunity to make things right, and Ulfric refuses. When Ulfric sends you with his axe (if playing the Stormcuck side), it’s an ultimatum
>"Give the man my axe. If he keeps it, I will bide my time. If he returns it to you, it means war"
In both sides of the story, he is the clear aggressor, just like he was when he murdered the High King that idolized him and would've loved to work with him. Regardless of how you look at it, Ulfric's a power hungry terrorist that cares for little else other than ballads about him sitting on the throne

>>3822095
>One side is wearing literal leather fetish gear larping as Romans, while the other has actual armor.
Stormdogs say things like this and have the gall to call us liars. Typical pagan nonsense, I spit on you

>>3822111
Balgruuf was bought with (((Elven))) gold long before the game starts, and he was never going to do anything other than play both sides until he can’t refuse those who have greased his palms.

>>3822278
Whatever helps you cope at night, Ulfric

>>3822262
Unironically stormcloak soldiers and town guards are better armored than everyone else.
>Stormdogs say things like this and have the gall to call us liars
Where is the lie? The Imperial officer armor is pretty much the only viable piece of gear the Imps have in terms of protection with everything else being leather fetish gear.
The reverse is true for the SCs with officers being poorly equipped but everyone else being fairly well protected.

>>3822094
>Maybe next time don't cross the border illegally looking like a hobo
"well ackshually executing people for crossing the border is good but only if the empire does it if the nords are racist against the dunmer in windhelm thats bad tho"

k

>Thorald was taken as a prisoner of war following a battle, not kidnapped in his sleep in town. Play the game you like to talk about
"You disagree with me so you didnt play the game"
Ah the ultimate non-sequitur of the midwit.

>Thalmor ≠ Empire
The Empire condones what the Thalmor are doing. Once again, non-sequitur.

>To mischaracterize his acquiescence to political murder with "he was just another regular guard that happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and used as le scapegoat" is objectively false
Thats what Empire accuses him off.
Were you there?
Did you see it?
If he was accessory/accomplice to a murder why would he stick around instead of fleeing with Ulfric?

>objectively false
You don't even know what objectively means. Try to look up the words you're using before you use them, champ.

>You don't seem to even remember the game you're talking about
You you went from "You didnt play the game" to "Well you didnt place the game recently enough".

I accept your concession, I guess?

>>3822521
Leather armor is perfectly fine and is better defense against the Stormcloaks' preferred 2 handed greataxes/ greatswords/ hammers than a plate through which those would crush through anyway. In fact, Nords prefer light armor too, only they are unlettered and unwashed barbarians who run around half naked.

>>3822619
lol

>>3822812
ikr

>>3822546
>executing people for crossing the border is good
Yes
>if the nords are racist against the dunmer in windhelm thats bad tho
What the fuck does one thing have to do with the other, retard? Do the Imperials distinguish who they behead and who they don't based on race?
>"You disagree with me so you didnt play the game"
More like "you misremember/make something up that's not in the game so you didn't play the game", yes
>The Empire condones what the Thalmor are doing
Please, I am begging you, play the game you seem to like to talk about
>Thats what Empire accuses him off
But it's not
Were you there?
Did you see it?
>If he was accessory/accomplice to a murder why would he stick around instead of fleeing with Ulfric?
Because his IQ is as high as 90% of Stormcucks'
>You don't even know what objectively means
I'll accept the concession
>You you went from "You didnt play the game" to "Well you didnt place the game recently enough"
I want to give the benefit of the doubt to even the most idiotic brains out there

>level scaling
Who thinks this garbage is a good idea?
Love getting one-shotted by randomly generated bandits 60 fucking hours in. Great RPG experience as the Dragonborn who already saved the world from some dragon god thing.

>>3823071
lmao what the hell did you skill and put your stats, skyrimeme gets easier and easier the higher up you level, it's tedious and boring without mods, just get max resistance and enchant smithing and become an unkillable blender with dual wielding or just pick everyone off with stealth archery

>>3823108
i'm sitting on 14 perk points but i didn't put them in anything yet because nothing seemed good
plus i might need them later

>>3809187
one time a Nord got drunk and fucked a crocodile and that's why my Argonian is helping to overthrow the Thalmor

>>3823071
Bandits max out their scaling at level 20-something, chief.

Hear me out: Both sides are retarded.

Just kill every High Elf you see, get drunk on mead and get Lydia pregnant.

>>3823139
then you might as well be level 1

>>3823071
>>3823139
Retard

People who project their IRL political resentments into fiction are the biggest faggots in the universe.
>nooo you’re an evil Jew if you don’t support muh fantasy Vikings!!!
Universal suffrage was a mistake

>>3823334
Classic midwit redditor take. Thinks he's the smartest guy in the room while being the dumbest and not even understanding the conversation.
Projecting IRL politics into fiction is objectively correct because the creators did the same thing when they were making it.

>>3823108
After I 1v2 some dragons I went to finish the discerning the transmundane quest and stopped by the light tower where I got my ass handed to me by 1 chaurus, never mind the big ones. ~70 one handed, ~50 smithing, ~40 heavy armor and block

>>3823353
So you’re aware that you’re being fed propaganda but you continue to spend your free time obsessing over it and angrily debating the fine points of the propaganda online? What a bewildering stance.

>>3823360
FUUUS - RO - DAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!
>redditor anon goes flying back like ragdoll fag

>>3823071
>Love getting one-shotted by randomly generated bandits 60 fucking hours in
That's not how it works in Skyrim as long as you keep up with your own gear, doofus

>>3823334
Sorry, I'm not American so I don't think about irl politics 24/7 and treat fictional ones on a per game basis

>>3823812
Then there's no reason to not side with the Stormcloaks. Every anti-Stormcloak argument is provably wrong and irrational, and that irrationality is always a variation of TDS. It's all just emotional mantras like "the Empire will fight back in 2 weeks!" despite overwhelming evidence it can't, won't, and doesn't wish to. Cyrodiil is such a shithole its citizens are fleeing to Skyrim because common bandits manage to burn down main cities, something absolutely unheard of in Skyrim.

We don't project any politics in the game, we just call it out when the imperials do because they always do. Is Rolff an asshole, absolutely, but why does nobody ever talk about the fact the Dunmer he insults genuinely enslaves Argonians on a racial basis, makes racist comment against them, controls them via drugs and starvation, and coordinates attacks with pirates on innocent commercial ships? The answer is simple: they perceive her as a dindu brown, and Rolff as evil whitey.

You just have to look at all the "Ulfric racis" comments when it's provably wrong, Ulfric gives them shelter and equal opportunities, some dunmer directly say their kind is just too lazy and racist to work for the most part, Brunwulf is a filthy traitor and racial agitator pushing them to revolt to take the throne for himself and then do genuinely nothing he promised, suddenly finding excuses as to why building luxury hotels AFTER a war is difficult, let alone during war. Ulfric only has one line complaining about the dunmer in the entire game, and it's about being tired of them complaining when they've chosen to be useless to the war effort and he has an existential war for Humanity to fight.

>>3824297
both parties are the same, when i play Skyrimeme, i take the neutral route

>>3824297
>"the Empire will fight back in 2 weeks!" despite overwhelming evidence it can't, won't, and doesn't wish to
theyre also all literally COMPED up to and including the entire elder council
they literally have an elf spy outpost nextdoor to their main provincial base of operations ffs
the empire is str8 doomed, and i thought that was pretty clear from the environmental storytelling
guess not

>but why does nobody ever talk about the fact the Dunmer he insults
this
idk if its that ppl never found that quest or what. but other than callixto, whos cutting random whores up to rebuild his sister, shes maybe one of the more clearly evil characters in windhelm. maybe even worse since shes not literally crazy, just greedy

>The answer is simple: they perceive her as a dindu brown
also theyve only played skyrim, so they know nothing of how dunmer are in terms of being turboracists lol. within living elven memory too

also
one thing i have to add
the new imperial jarls are way worse than the new stormcloak ones
whatsherfuck in riften may be retarded, but at least shes not a literal mob boss
empire is only a rational choice if you play thief imo

>>3824299
thats boring tho
the civil war quest is one of the few questlines where you can make a noticeable difference to the world. skyrim desperately needed more of that.

i just go with whatever my character im playing would do. sometimes neutral, but more often than not, one side or the other will piss me off eventually. and then i make them learn to regret whatever sleight they inflicted on me

>>3824390
>the empire is str8 doomed
Even more so by the very existence of the quest at the Thalmor Embassy. This quest shows that at any time, the Thalmor can summon a good chunk of the Imperial Elite to come completely unarmed to be surrounded by Thalmor soldiers in the middle of nowhere. If the Thalmor wanted to start a war, they could red-wedding half the Imperial Elite without losing one soldier, that's something never talked about, when it's absolutely terrifying.

>the new imperial jarls are way worse than the new stormcloak ones
True, Siddgeir being the worst offender. A puppet illegally put in place by Imperial authorities to oust a legitimate ruler, and that puppet makes deal with bandits who butcher his own citizens.

>empire is only a rational choice if you play thief imo
The only one in Windhelm happy about the Imperials winning (except Brunwulf the traitor and racial agitator, and the retarded Dunmer and Argonians who buy his bullshit) is the High Elf woman who dabbles in many illegal activities.

>>3824409
>the High Elf woman who dabbles in many illegal activities
niranye?
shes cool tho. even with stormcloaks in control, she dgaf. and unlike the dunmer, who just bitch, she made it work even tho shes literally altmer, so public enemy #1.
shes also iirc getting threatened/blackmailed by murderous thugs and you threaten her instead to get the info lol to do most of that stuff, so fair play imo.
also shes maybe the best fence in the game. shes got so much gold and isnt in some hideout 3 screens away. you just gotta do enough TG quests to actually unlock her as one.

she just needs to shut the FUCK up when im trying to enchant before i lose my mind

>>3824440
>niranye?
Yeah, and no disagreement with your analysis, she just objectively deals in illegal shit and tells you straight that the advantage of the empire winning is that many records are being lost making it easier to evade the law. Her and the alchemist being Altmer and having 0 issues in Stormcloak Capital is further proof that the dunmer are just whiny shitstains.

>>3824442
>tells you straight that the advantage of the empire winning is that many records are being lost making it easier to evade the law
yea thats why i said empire is the best thief route. it makes most cities noticeably more corrupt.
thats the only time i consistently side empire
actually, super evil altmer/vampire too. cuz then you can set yourself up with the DB questline to have insane leverage over the elder council and the next emperor

>Her and the alchemist being Altmer and having 0 issues in Stormcloak Capital is further proof that the dunmer are just whiny shitstains.
thats how i read it at least
idk what happened with everyone else
or i guess i do
>12yo kids first TES game
>walk into windhelm
>"y don u greyskins fight in tha war??"
>OH MY SCIENCE IS THAT A RACISM!?!?!?
>[oscillates uncontrollably in their gamer chair while crying and farting]

>>3824445
Kek, you're not that far off. The genuine thought process of the normie is "I was setup to hate the Empire because of the intro, but I saw a racism in Windhelm, therefore Ulfric is Drumpf Hortler bad and only my very high Rick and Morty viewer IQ allowed me to escape the trap of fascism! Stormcloaks are so dumb dumb, don't they know racism is bad?"

Meanwhile there is an actual Nord named Solaf in Falkreath whose brother will refuse to talk to you if you're not a Nord. Solaf was a Stormcloak before he got wounded, his brother wasn't. Solaf apologizes for his brother's behavior and says "I have no dislike of strangers, met lots of 'em while I was a Stormcloak.". Rolff never was a Stormcloak either.

By simply looking at the facts of the game, the average Stormcloak soldier is LESS racist than the average Nord, and that's not even getting into how incredibly racist against the Nords the Empire is, considering them beasts and being stupidly bloodthirsty mercenaries only there for bloodlust and money. But the normie will just go "evil whitey" upon seeing Rolff and completely stop any sort of thought process.

>>3824297
>Then there's no reason to not side with the Stormcloaks.

I played as a racist Argonian who hates all the warm bloods, I didn't see a reason to side with either of them.

>>3824451
>Meanwhile there is an actual Nord named Solaf in Falkreath whose brother will refuse to talk to you if you're not a Nord. Solaf was a Stormcloak before he got wounded, his brother wasn't. Solaf apologizes for his brother's behavior and says "I have no dislike of strangers, met lots of 'em while I was a Stormcloak."
yea that guy does a better job of explaining stormcloak politics than most. they just want the elven puppet govt and their elven seekrit police gone so they can worship talos/shor without getting [REDACTED]. which is understandable given who and what nords are and what theyre descendant from

problem is? newfags never find falkreath. at least it seems like usually not on their first playthough.
i have a theory that falkreath is the least visited city in all of skyrim. even less than morthal. morthal is easily stumbled upon. youll see morthals map marker on your compass if youre lost anywhere in that gosforsaken swamp and you WILL be. falkreath is just isolated and all the way down in the corner. outside of DB, theres very few quests i can remember that point you anywhere near there.
shame too, since i quite like those woods, and esp the misty valley the towns in

>>3824464
you just need a RPing excuse
this is my ez one for an apolitical char to get radicalized and join stormcloaks
>go to solitude
>watch dude get beheaded
>do the quest to retrieve his amulet for his wife
>talk to her
>resolve to rob imperials/thalmor in solitude
>start fucking around
>like rly rly hard
>inevitably get caught
>dont surrender
>flee
>dont pay off bounty/go to jail
then every time youre back in solitude youll be a wanted man and get into even more trouble with the imperials. winning the war clears it. for flavor i usually rack up bounties in the rest of the imperial holds too. same deal, when you usurp each hold, they get cleared i rly think they missed a gr8 opportunity to use the bounty system to make you a criminal inimperial holds if youre a known stormcloaki get why they didnt, as they didnt wanna lock you out of half the quests until you finish the warstill lame tho

theoretically, you could do basically the opposite with windhelm and muh racism. but iirc the imperials wont let you join if you have a bounty anywhere

>>3808390 (OP)
>Why does literally everyone online hate Ulfric?
Muh racism. Can't have a charismatic white leader wanting an ethnostate for his people can we?

>>3824487
how do you...not find falkreath? are poltards really this stupid????????????////

>>3824464
>I played a racist Argonian who hates all the warm bloods
unbelievably based. Argonians are the Master Race.
>we also have the only Racial Powers that anyone actually uses

>>3822056
>14 years later, no one has been able to top Skyrim in terms of popular appeal. 14 years later, people would still rather do their 12000th Skyrim playthrough than play whatever FotM dogshit is being media-blitzed.
The absolute state of the AAA game industry.
>insert DA: Veilguard .jpg

>>3824502
are you illiterate or just fucking gay? im talking about other ppl you retarded namefaggot. specifically the kind that had skyrim as their babbys first RPG.
if youre just doing the MQ and didnt play oblivion and know to shirk the MQ, you straight up wont ever go there. theres nothing pointing you to falkreath, or even anywhere near it. and thats exactly how probably half of all normalfags played this game their first time. esp so if it was their first TES game, because they probably thought the MQ actually mattered and had to be done quickly due to how its written.

id wager falkreath is, on avg, the least visited town in skyrim.
even dawnstar youll probably stumble upon first, just from wandering along the coast of the sea of ghosts. falkreath is just all the way in the corner, with nothing by it other than the DB sanctuary.

>>3824545
there's road signs all over the place leading you to every major town and village, use your fucking eyes

>>3824555
Anon most people don't use the signs or walk on foot to the nearest town or use the carriages, they fast travel.
>Go place
>Kill and loot
>teleport to town
>rinse repeat
Getting two of my friends to play Morrowind and Witcher 3 was a hard sell specifically because fast travel was limited to specific points on the map.

>>3824494
See, when I say I'm role playing a racist Argonian, I mean I wouldn't help the guy's wife. I might start the quest to see if it gained me access somewhere new but I probably wouldn't finish it cause whtly the fuck would I care about one warm blood killing another? I honestly don't remember if I did that or if I saw the scene, shrugged and went to go practice pick pocketing. I did do a quest at one point that let me into the Thalmor embassy where I fucked them up pretty good with my skeleton armies and reanimated corpses. That was good fun.

>>3808402
>>3808445
This. Every fucking game or setting that has a roman or roman-esque faction in it is prone to being swarmed with obnoxious romaboos. These faggots are the bane of every online discussion ever. Fuck romanfags.

>>3824720
I like the aesthetics of both factions, but that doesn't influence my choices. The imperials are objectively the bad side, a bunch of faithless bloodthirsty mercenaries with no cause, the purest form of antifas screeching they need to be the nahtzees

"We destroyed those Stormcloak traitors!"
“Been so long since I killed a Stormcloak, my sword arm's getting flabby."
"Stay alert. Never know when those Stormcloak dogs might charge."
"Damn Stormcloak rebels."
"Can't wait to gut one of those rebels."
"Can't wait to kill another of Ulfric's boys."

>>3824725
>need to be
*need to beat

>>3824297
Sounds like cope to me

why is this thread full of dumb amerimongrels projecting their own delusions and degenerate politics onto the game?

>>3825102
Probably because the politics of the game hit home to Americans. You're given the choice between only two factions, both of which are just slightly different flavours of insufferable.

>>3808390 (OP)
>mage playthrough
>pay no mind to civil wars or other nonsense
>just stay indoors
>too many books to read

>>3826912
>mage playthrough
>the College of Winterhold gets almost nuked and its Archmage killed by a Thalmor who is only there because of the Empire sucking elvish cock 24/7 for 25 years

>>3826912
>too many books to read
All the time in the world…

As dragonborn, aren't both the thrones of Skyrim and the Empire the player's birthright?

>>3825102
>why are americans assuming the american game is about american politics
I would rather be indian than be a european constantly worrying about not being american

>>3827692
>would rather be indian
you already are

Sucks to suck

>Imperials have the ICONIC armor in Oblivion
>Armor looks scrawny and faggy in Skyrim
What happened man?

>>3826914
That guy made me realize how wonky WRPG combat is.
He would just BTFO me in one hit with his giant fireball and I would reload my insta-save over and over until I finally got lucky and killed him. And that's the difference. Just saving wherever you want and reloading until the luck goes your way. Amazing.

>>3828270
>He would just BTFO me in one hit with his giant fireball
>savescumming
Just cast ward

Is this your first rpg?

>>3828275
To be fair, mage NPCs in Skyrim are stupidly OP compared to the player. They can cast very quickly, have immensely more magicka and magicka regen than you, and benefit from very accurate aimbots. The encounter in Azura's star is easily one of the hardest in the games.

>>3828277
>ward
>shock spells
>stagger with overcharge
>potions of resist if needed
ez

This is with harder difficulty, I don't remember what normal is like.

>>3828275
Is it really "savescumming" when the game lets you save whenever and wherever you want by default? It's just a basic feature of the game.

>>3828281
Yes, it really is savescumming. Always was.

I'm level 45 and I still don't know how combat works.
I approach every enemy the same. I use unrelenting force to knock them down like Sigma Ulfric, then I run up and smash the attack button while they get up. Sometimes their health goes down a lot, sometimes not much at all. Sometimes my stamina goes away, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the game stops and shows a "killcam" animation, sometimes it doesn't. I really don't know what is happening. I'm also the guy with 18 unassigned perk points btw.

>>3828294
Skyrim is too complex for you, go back to Morrowind

>>3828280
And mostly the ethereal shout to close the gap. But yes, I'm not saying Skyrim is a difficult game, but a few types of enemies/encounters are vastly above the rest which can be very surprising. In my first playthrough, I played a Khajiit assassin who used daggers, I got utterly fucked by the surprise first fight with Alduin.

>>3828306
>I played a Khajiit assassin who used daggers, I got utterly fucked by the surprise first fight with Alduin.
Dual wielding? I never tried committing to that. Not being able to bash would be a major handicap, so a beefy warrior would go better with dual wielding, I guess.. Or maybe enchantments and poisons are enough to up the damage. Maybe that's something to try next time.

>>3828307
>Dual wielding?
I think so, it just appealed to me. But bear in mind, I was 14, and before Skyrim I almost exclusively played Flash games, so I wasn't optimizing much.

Fantasy racism is always retarded because the writers are always anti-racist so they can't commit to making the races actually different so what ends up happening is all the races are the same humanoid cardboard cutout but with different types of heads pasted on top. Really just goes to show that video game "writers" are total visionless hacks who couldn't create an interesting world if their life depended on it.

>>3828308
>it just appealed to me
>I wasn't optimizing much
Honestly that's the optimal way to play RPGs

>>3828152
>zoom zoom who started with Oblivion thinks Skyrim redesigned the Imperial armor and didn't just go back to its design intention from Morrowind
What 'happened' is that Oblivion's artstyle was a mistake

>>3828323
I love that set. Last time I played I used it for the whole game, including upgrades to Templar pieces, etc.

>>3828310
What are you whining about now.. make races different in what way?

>>3828311
Agreed. Optimizing is for mindbroken autists too crippled to feel joy, soul, or wonder.

The best Skyrim playthroughs are
>Pick three skills you never use like Alteration, Lockpicking, and Block. Only spend points in those.
>Pick the race that you're least interested in playing.
>Legendary difficulty, Survival Mode, no other mods except bugfix and shit like camping/fishing.
>Screw inventory mgmt and money, what you find is what you use, throw anything else in the trash.
>Fuckin GO.

>>3823334
Based and Ben Franklin-pilled. Poorfags who don't own land are like women, they shouldn't be allowed rights.

>>3820892
Add to that, at the Thalmor party, General Tullius actually says "Between you and me, Ulfric is right about a lot of things". Which means General Tullius, leader of the Imps, is a cowardly faggot with zero principles.

>>3808390 (OP)
There are only two logical decisions, you pick Ulfric if you're Nord or you pick Imperials if you're Altmer master-race and don't care about nordcels getting raped in elf dungeons.

>>3828594
Addendum: unfortunately you can't just side with Thalmor outright, bad fucking game design btw. Siding with Imperials will assure Thalmor will have another good go at it tho.
The guys who outsmart, outgun and outmaneuver everyone else should be allowed to win, bonus point if I'm part of their race and organization.

>>3828523
I became a Nord battlemage even though it's the worst build.
I chose Nord at the start because obviously it's the only correct choice, but then I had to start using fire when I realized there are giant spiders everywhere in the game and I needed to fill the screen with flames so I couldn't see them.

>>3828594
Many Altmer hate the Thalmor though, so an Altmer joining the Stormcloaks isn't that improbable.

>>3828606
There is no way they could win. Of course Bethesda games can't show the true scale of the factions in the lore, but while every Thalmor you see might represent 10 in lore, every Stormcloak or Imperial soldier easily represents 500.

The Thalmor would have to take one of those 3 routes to invade Skyrim, all of those choices are suicide.

>>3828613
My latest character was a pure nord mage, and I'm glad they aren't "gimped" in Skyrim.

Everyone says "Stormcloaks bcuz Imperials tried to kill me." This is an objectively correct answer,
HOWEVER
>has anyone considered that maybe you were a mass-murdering piece of shit (or similar) and deserved to be beheaded, and the Helgen incident with Halvor gave you a second chance to (maybe) seek redemption?
That's a possible justification for going Imperial. No one ever mentions it.

>>3830010
So you're going to redeem for being a mass-murderer by becoming a mass-murderer for money?

>>3830010
Yes, you can make up the reason why you were crossing the border, just like why you were in prison in the previous games.

You could be a fugitive, innocent and framed, or just innocent. Whatever works for your story. People just aren't used to the freedom Skyrim offers for roleplay.

>>3809216
Yeah, it was pretty funny and also cringe that all the blue hairs took the side of the Dark Elf just because of muh dark skin. Dunmer used to be golden but they betrayed their selfless war leader and their God Azura. Dunmer keep slaves. Dunmer have assassins guilds. Dunmer worship blood magic and love treachery. I mean, I like them too, but I played Morrowind - I know they're all fetchers.

>>3830369
Even if you were to know nothing except Skyrim, the sheer ridiculousness of the Imperials racism against the Nords should in theory make the blue hair angry, but since it's mutts oppressing Aryans, it's completely fine in their books.

Ask any Legate, and they'll tell you this:
>You mean Ulfric's so-called "Stormcloak rebellion"? The Nord kings - oh, excuse me, "Jarls" - they can't seem to control their own people. So the Legion has stepped in to keep order. Sadly, the Empire's stretched a little thin these days, and we've gotten very few reinforcements. So we've been forced to recruit locally. But rest assured, citizen. We'll put an end to this uprising... and things will get back to normal soon enough.
The Empire is a colonizing force that disregards the entirety of the reasons behind a legitimate rebellion against their tyranny, it doesn't even recognize as legitimate authorities their appointed leaders and spits on the very title of the position, and say the population can't be "controlled by the locals" aka they need more torture and slavery to fall in line.

Seeing antifas vehemently defend a parody of the British Empire out of pure anti-Aryan hatred never gets old. If you're sane, you're pro-Stormcloaks, if you're some insane, rabid antifa, you're pro-Imperials.

>>3830372
I only joined the Empire when roleplaying as an Orsimer; even as a Dunmer I joined the Stormcloaks, for I was not an ingrate and I loathed it when the Empire first made Vvardenfell into an Imperial colony.

>>3808390 (OP)
Because Ulfric the Pretender uses the civil war as pretext to chase the empire's pretty damn tasty nachos secret recipe.
They're quite cheesy but with a little spice.

>>3828791
You don't know what you're talking about.

Read "The Great War" - Thalmor already conquered Valenwood and Elsewyr. That's how they invaded. Both countries are still under Thalmor occupation during Skyrim. They also had half of Hammerfell for a while, and bled them dry. The only country that kept the Thalmor out was High Rock, and that was due to political smarts, i.e. not letting zogbots have any gov't representation in the first place.

>>3830627
>You don't know what you're talking about.
>Proceeds to not rebuke a single point
If you want an invading path that goes through Cyrodiil, that's path 2, Retardo-kun. And getting your army stuck between Cyrodiil and Skyrim would be an extremely stupid decision.

>>3810758
>They're just appealing to vibes.
My feelings don't care about your facts, imperial nigger, now watch as I cleave my way to solitude in a week.

>>3830372
Bro you're not white relax

>>3808390 (OP)
because Ulfric would genocide every non nord if he could have it his way, that's why reddit niggerfaggots hate him

Speaking of racism, can redguards really be considered Men if they don't descend from Nedes/Atmorans? This kinda makes me think of Conan's Thulsa Doom.

>>3830633
NTA but it always baffles me when people say the Nords would get shit stomped by the Thalmor. Even getting a solid foothold into Skyrim in the first place through a hostile country or via naval action through treacherous cold waters filled with ice caps would be quite the feat.

>>3831599
The Redguard beat the Thalmor on their own, and this was after suffering heavy casualties. A better understanding of magic was attributed to this, since Nords have minimal involvement with it.
>>3830633
>you rebuked my point but I'll pretend you didn't by combining the delusion of a troon with the nigger's hatred of reading books.

Here's an invasion path, and probably a good one it's the ACTUAL FUCKING PATH THE THALMOR ACTUALLY TOOK WHICH ACTUALLY FORCED THE EMPEROR TO SIGN THE WHITE-GOLD CONCORDANT.

>>3821139
> >the nobles are overwhelmingly corrupt
>Who do you mean, the Silver-Bloods? The dumbass Skald, or for that matter, all of the incompetent Stormcloak aligned Jarls?
> >muh Black-Briar
>Allowed and encouraged to do her business by a Stormcloak supporter
I have to disagree with both of you. Bethesda very carefully balanced the two sides to have a perfect symmetry of competent and bad nobles. The Empire has the Black Briar take control of Riften but the Stormcloaks have the Silver-Blood take control of Markarth for example.

>>3832391
what the fuck do you mean you disagree then? that was my point, that any accusation of corruption of the empire is just as valid for the stormcloaks.

>join imperial faction
>kill ulfric
>then join dark brotherhood
>kill emperor as well
I do this every playthrough

I just side with Tullius because I find him more relatable
>hates Skyrim and its dumb lore
>hates the Thalmor
>hates his job
He's just like me

>>3832415
Your point sounded like the Stormcloak jarls were all incompetent.

>>3831635
>I will stick my army between Cyrodiil's and Skyrim's, when the only way into Skyrim is a very narrow path that can be blocked off by a simple snowstorm.
You have to be trolling, no way you're that retarded, but it shows how much pilpul you need to defend the imperial mutts.

>>3831599
Indeed. Skyrim would be impossible to hold on to for the Thalmor, and is perfect for guerilla warfare. Muh Thalmor invasion is an absolute meme.

>>3832418
>WOW GUYS, Aren't I such an original r*dditor, I hate everyone and everything and I'm a nihilist neutralist who thinks my super duper special character should be god emperor of the world and force everyone to stop le heckin racism!
You're disgusting.

>>3832910
As previously stated both in my post and in The Great War, the Thalmor did exactly that, marched right the fuck North, and succeeded. It was the Redguards and Nords who stopped them, otherwise they would have toppled the whole empire right there.

>says pilpul
>while pilpulling
The fucking pottery

So once again, you are an illiterate nigger and you need to kill yourself. This is the last (you) you're going to get. Please continue your incoherent screeching about a topic you know nothing about. Your willful refusal to read and learn basic information is so telling that you don't even need to post your hand for me to know. Enjoy your fried chicken and watermelon while waiting for your dad to come back from the cigarette store.

>>3808390 (OP)
if only Skyrim had spellcrafting like oblivion. best game of all time

>>3809184
not really no. I instantly assume they're political and subversive. who would legitimately have issue with nords and why?

>>3809195
bosmer logic, what's next orcimer leaders or something? goofy lil guy

What are the best coom mods

>>3833377
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/44675

>>3808390 (OP)
I really don't care for the politics of Skyrim, I just want to genocide all non humans

>>3820892
>>3821062
>My point being that unless you are a total leftist NPC whose only problem seems to be "nationalism bad!" the game shows you exactly zero reasons in-Character to side with the Imperium or even consider the Imperial Rule of Skyrim a benevolent rule or a good thing.
I think nationalism is bad, but not because I'm a leftist, but because I disagree with the notion that nations just have an inherent "right" to exist. Fuck you, that's a product of the Peace of Westphalia, why should my nation which is bigger, stronger, and more populous than yours, have to respect your sovereignty? Your "nation" exists because we choose to allow it to continue existing.

>>3833387
so isreal should be new islam? lol

>>3833414
I was thinking more like the Russian Federation and...everyone else that used to be part of the CCCP.

>>3832431
Oh I see what you're saying
>all of the incompetent Stormcloak aligned Jarls
meant
all of the stormcloak jarls who are also incompetent
not
all of the stormcloak jarls, who are all incompetent
Though I can't think of one I like. Maybe Greymane

>>3833349
What do you need spellcrafting for?

>>3809366
> 4 I genuinely don't understand because what could be more appropriate than using a shout in a duel between two Nords
>using a shout
Its like instead of using dueling pistols at a duel, one brings a missile launcher/machinegun to it. Violates unwritten rules.
>i genuinely dont understand
Either because you are underage, OR you are autistic.

>>3809410
Worse yet, if you choose to fight on Empire's side, and siege Windhelm, and come after Ulfric with Tulius and Rikke, Ulfric doesnt even use a shout. So it appears that he studied and learned to shout just so that it could give him a free ticket up the power ladder.

>>3833641
>So it appears that he studied and learned to shout just so that it could give him a free ticket up the power ladder.
How did you jump into that conclusion

>>3811729
>>3811734
>rural incompetent backwater
Trading routes. Mines and ores and natural resources. People, which means human resources, which means a source of good troops. And a relatively safe backyard.
>shitbag leftist doublethink argument
How about you go back to /pol/ and stay there, you shitsnorting retard.

>>3818657
>everyone was playing on the side of Stormcloaks
That is a very bold statement. Care to prove it?

>>3833666
>conclusion
Anon, when you are a nobility, and ambitious, you always want to have an ace up your sleeve, an edge over your opponents. Shouts are just that.

>>3831599
>naval action through treacherous cold waters filled with ice caps would be quite the feat
Did not stop Thalmor from raiding into Solstheim. Did not stop pirates being a menace to the EEC. Does not stop Solitude trading with High Rock and whoever else.

>>3830372
>The Empire is a colonizing force
A few centuries too late with that conclusion. Also, speak to a few more people and legionaires before cherrypicking the results.

>>3828323
>Oblivion's artstyle was a mistake
Todd saw The Lord of the Rings. That is what happened. And it had disastrous consequences on the franchise.

>>3828523
>The best Skyrim playthroughs are
Highly subjective.

>>3833674
>And it had disastrous consequences on the franchise.
Yeah it got more and more successful

What's wrong with you trannies

>>3821062
>Skyrim is a perfect litmus test for discerning who is pro-Aryanity
>an insane fag antifa desperate to kill every single Aryan to stick it to Hollywood Hitler
I guess that is what bleach enemas and ivermectin and that blue shit do to a brain. Way to out yourself. Please crawl back into /pol/ and die there.

>>3833684
>Yeah it got more and more successful
Success doesnt equal quality. The only reason skyrim is still being played are mods, and not entirely mods of the lore-friendly kind.
Also, same game being re-released several times is not a good thing.

>>3833689
Keep coping, loser.

>>3833609
for crafting fun spells... the most fun you can have in gaming pretty much? seriously?

>>3833552
lol

>>3809216
If Ulfric was actually racist, it would be even better to side with him. Too bad he's not a real racist. Fuck *lves

>>3810758
Found the redditor

>>3811269
Yeah. It's called the Dawnguard DLC.

>>3833701
Yes but what fun spell would you create in skyrim?

>>3821856
>being mad that Ulfric wanted you to depose the serial adulterer and replace him with a good, honest, faithful nord who hasn't been corrupted by the simpire and is an honored member of the companions

>>3824720
That's right. And romaboos, remember... Rome fell to the GERMANIC BVLL.

>>3831360
I doubt it. Plus Ulfric is probably fucking Niranye on the side.

>>3824464
Get back to work plow.

>>3833711
Plant rune on touch
Fus ro dah my own personal kamikaze onto enemies

>>3833711
well first would be a mass paralysis, combo spell with the ritual stone power to watch everything raised as forever zombies, then yeet them off the mountain when I raise enough. then make more fun type spells. depends on what the limits of spell crafting were, like are shouts in spell crafting? if so amazing

Are you people capable of viewing anything outside of the lens of the current, very western-centric culture war?

I always sided with the stormcloaks because the imperials got the better gear to loot and wear at the start.
Stormcloaks Vs Imperials is one of the worst, useless and inconsequential parts of the game.

>>3833800
>Stormcloaks Vs Imperials is one of the worst, useless and inconsequential parts of the game.
Even better, it literally doesn't matter for the main story. You can completely ignore it and it doesn't stop you from doing what you're doing, the Stormcloaks vs Imperials is a sideshow to stopping Alduin from ending the world.

>>3833804
Elemental Fury shout + dual wield + vegetable soup + dash attack is an underrated build.
Heavy Armor + Lord Stone + Breton for defense.

One of the worst aspects of the game was that bethesda broke magic by not creating a spell damage enchant.

>>3833808
>spell damage enchant.
?

>>3833810
only mana cost reduction

>>3833799
>current, very western-centric culture war

Sorry I'm not a backwards inbred peasant from a collectivist caste culture. The culture war is a product of individualism, which is a feature of societies that have evolved things like toilets and air conditioning.

>>3833816
..you want increased spell magnitude? You get that from potions, alchemy, so that the player has to invest in multiple skills to become OP

>>3833808
Is vegetable soup the most broken OP item in the game?
>regardless of difficulty, survival mode or no, any situation, easy to make, easy ingredients requires zero skill, especially beloved by vampires and werewolves
>srsly it's fucking hilarious that in Skyrim vegetable soup is every vampire's favorite food. This should become official canon. They should have commercials like, "Count Campbell's Vegetable Soup, it's Mm-Mmm good, both blood and non-blood (low sodium) recipes available!"

>>3833804
Isn't Season Unending required for main quest to progress?
>t. someone who has ignored the main questline for over a decade.

>>3833808
>no spell damage enchant
literally several skill options in destruction, enchantment, and alchemy to boost that.

Otherwise yes, but "OP builds" are sort of silly, because there's infinite number of them. Here's my favorite, though I don't use it anymore bcuz no challenge:
>Novice Hood from Tutorial
>Buy Conjure Flame Atronarch from Farangar
>Flame Atronarch plays the entire game for you while you can literally AFK
>on hard mode maybe you have to resummon once or twice
>requires nothing, any race/class, don't even have to spend a skill point or raise max MP.
I still pull her out when a random Dragon attacks and I'm not in the mood to spend 10 minutes killing it.

>>3833800
it's one of the funnest parts of the game to take over forts after buffing your fellow troops.

>>3833804
they made it an optional side quest for different players and you complain about it not being part of the main story... k

>>3833823
yes potions and enchanting makes everything else broken in Skyrim

>>3808390 (OP)
I don't hate him but he is objectively in the wrong. it makes sense for him to want to rebel, but he can't see that he's obviously being used. And I don't mean obvious in a meta sense, I mean if you were even a little politically savvy and picking up context clues easily accessible by anyone that he's not accomplishing anything meaningful with his rebellion.

>>3833804
>>3833872
They rightfully realized some players wouldn't want to be forced into the civil war to start the main quest. For a long while there in development the civil war *was* the main quest. Literally the second main quest, right after leaving Helgen, had you forced to join a side. Then you'd do a fort with either the Empire or the Stormcloaks and you'd find the Dragonstone at the end. Which is why in the final game, the stone is located in a dungeon that's part of the big Golden Claw sidequest.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Unused_NPCs#Captain_Metilius

>>3833951
I only know about the finished release of the game, the war wasn't developed very well and is very bland storywise until the old guys on the mountain and the dragon gets involved.
otherwise the war is fort capturing, which is fun af.
also the empire deserves the war and what happens for making a biased nonsensical deal with altmer

>>3833951
>They rightfully realized some players wouldn't want to be forced into the civil war to start the main quest.
Good call. It could have added to the narrative, but ultimately TES is for crafting your own story. At least for me.

Freedom is a priority, even if the writing suffers because of it. At least in the hands of some players.

Minor thing, but you'd think the Greymanes, other than Vignar, would reconsider their Stormcloak sympathy in a Stormcloak victory after the fuckers attack their home and kill people they know.

>>3833818
I live in Singapore. My country is richer, more stable, and more technologically advanced than yours despite believing in people staying in their land.

>>3834443
>My country is richer, more stable, and more technologically advanced
You’re welcome.

>>3834042
freedom of choice in an elder scrolls game is woven around the current problems and politics of the region played, therefore not writing the war into the game more, made it less interesting for every player, especially those players interested in politics and war.
which should be a big part of any game, because it's a big part of life.

>>3834270
if you're talking about whiterun, you're fucking retarded lol...

>>3834443
technology Singapore didn't invent and doesn't manufacture for themselves. you sure you're not in india? lol

>>3834455
Then those people can take part in the civil war questline

>>3834448
Shouldn't you be the one saying "you're welcome" when it's our policies wanting all of cour country's companies wanting to use us as a tax haven? They wouldn't want to come here without those policies.

>>3833818
>The culture war is a product of individualism
The irony being both sides of said war are giant collectivists who don't believe in people just doing their own thing, and if you ever suggest thing, people just call you a naive lolbertarian or a fencesitter who needs to pick a side.

>>3834443
>I live in a malaysian shithole where our #1 GNP export is making YouTube vids about throwing puppies into a pit of king cobras and pretending to save them. The rest of our income is from rich gay men who fly here to legally sodomize 10 year old boys.


I've been there. You should travel the world a bit. You're slightly more stable and advanced than Ethiopia and Somalia, and that's about it.

>>3834466
as I said, there's not much development in the war as a side quest, so all it ends up doing is fort capture

Ulfric isn't exactly racist. He gave the dunmer refugees a home in his city, they can own land, work, operate business etc. You could argue that the Grey Quarter isn't well maintained, and hasn't been since before the war, and I guess that is a point towards the racism narrative.
As for the argonians, they still have a lot of racial tension with the dunmer since the whole slavery of their people thing. Doesn't help that the argonians retaliated by slaughtering dunmer.
The racism argument is funny because in Daggerfall (idk about Arena), orcs were considered beasts, not even a beast race, just animals to be slaughtered by the Empire. Nobody seems to call the Empire racist, as if the slaughter of orcs is forgivable, but not treating every dunmer as a jarl isn't.
Also dunmer and argonians can join the Stormcloaks.

>>3835609
I was about to ask "what development", but then I remembered that discussions about TES here are a pointless complaint loop
>they forced you to take a side
>they didn't force you to take a side
>okay but they did it poorly
>okay but it wasn't enough
>they could have done this
>they could have done that too
>how about a complete civil war simulator and then you become a king and there's a kingdom simulator
>idk it's just something I thought of xD

>>3835667
>You could argue that the Grey Quarter isn't well maintained
It's up to the dunmer to maintain it. They're the ones living there.

>>3808390 (OP)
Ulfric is a manchild who is incapable of seeing the long term results of his actions. If the Stormcloaks win, then both them and the empire fall to the Thalmor. The Thalmor know this, which is why they made it so Ulfric can have his way and the civil war can continue. The only thing that holds the Thalmor at bay is a united Empire. He and his followers are too blinded by the Talos bs to realize that, but well what can you expect from the low IQ white trash race.

>>3836029
>The only thing that holds the Thalmor at bay is a united Empire.
Elvish claws typed your post. Your arguments are weak and require accepting your unfounded and implied assumptions. The “united Empire” already lost once, and shows no signs of learning from their defeat, or improvement. We can see in-game that Empire-friendly leaders are happily bought off with (((Elvish gold))).
More importantly, the Empire willingly banned the worship of its own founder, Talos, who literally and directly tells the player in Morrowind that the Empire has ran its course, is tired and worn, and is due to be replaced by something new.

If what you were saying were true, then the Thalmor would be happy to see the Stormcloaks win, but they literally and explicitly state in-game that a solidly united Skyrim isn’t their desired goal or outcome, rather they prefer to see the Stormcloaks and Empire fight indefinitely with no winner.

>>3836050
If it was a complete loss then the Thalmor wouldn't have made the deal to begin with. They would have just kept the war going, but the Empire, even with all the corruption you mentioned, is still the only faction that can oppose them.

Even with everything you said, you offer no reason why the Stormcloaks would be a better option. If they kick the Empire out of Skyrim, then what? They just fall to the Thalmor. The fact that the empire isn't perfect doesn't mean that the alternatives are better. Get off the mead snowman.

>>3836062
>you offer no reason why the Stormcloaks would be a better option
For Talos. For honoring the ancestors. For freedom. For justice. For splitting elven skulls.

>>3808390 (OP)
They're retards.
>>3808465
No that's retarded bullshit. The piss skinned jew elves arrogantly let him go and get fucked for it in the Stormcloak ending. Tulius is kill and the empire is crippled from losing a province. Ulfric plans to militarize Skyrim.

All you need to know is contrasting how Ulfric and Tullius die at the end of both questlines. Ulfric accepts his fate with honor and Tullius tries to weasel out of it and bribe his way out.

I first and last played Skyrim when it first came out. Back then, the noses were more jagged/low-poly, but the whole game fit on 5GB.

I didn't finish it but now I plan to, with mods. Here's what I installed so far. Could you guys please post your modlists?

>>3836772
I've rolled with unofficial patches. Unless you're going for some niche roleplay, I don't think Skyrim needs mods.

A UI extension that shows enemy's level, magicka and stamina? Draining magicka is great against mages, and knowing an opponent's level is useful when using Illusion effects.

Why are soys obsessed with "mods"

>>3835697
useless post. development as in game and story development.
if the war was developed better into the story and had more interaction besides fort capture, more players would care about it... simple

>>3836895
Why are you upset over people improving their game?

>>3836898
>if the war was developed better into the story and had more interaction besides fort capture, more players would care about it... simple
But it is and there is more, so your next complaint can only be "but I felt it wasn't good/enough"

>>3833818
It's not, it feels that way but in reality the culture war is the product of a shit economy. People never advocate for rocking the boat when the vast majority of the people are doing well. Unless you actually believe that culture war shit just COINCIDENTALLY always seems to happen in the aftermath of an economic downturn.

>>3836062
>the Empire, even with all the corruption you mentioned, is still the only faction that can oppose them.
Hammerfell alone could oppose them.

>If it was a complete loss then the Thalmor wouldn't have made the deal to begin with.
Of course they would, they gain everything from it. Why would they throw their soldiers into the meat grinder if they can win just as well without doing so? The Thalmor own the entire Empire nobility by the balls, they call the shots, they kidnap and murder civilians with impunity, they almost got the Eye of Magnus and the secrets of Stalhrim, they get immense reparations from the Empire...

The fact is, the Empire only signed the treaty because it was led by cowardly nobles who didn't want to fight and forced everyone else to stand down and take it in the ass for no good reason. Every official who pushed for that treaty deserves hanging.

>>3836772
A Quality World Map
Anniversary Edition Content Picker
Arena - An Encounter Zone Overhaul
ArteFakes - Unique Artifacts Replacer
Bandolier - Bags and Pouches Classic
Better Dialogue Controls
Book Covers Skyrim
Cloaks of Skyrim
Cloaks Of Skyrim Retextured SE
D13 Faster GET UP STAND UP animation vanilla friendly SSE
DIVERSE SKYRIM SSE
Deadly Dragons
Don't send me there again (dosemetha)
Enhanced Blood Textures
Enhanced Lights and FX
Immersive Armors
Immersive Armors Retexture and Mesh Fixes SE
Immersive HUD - iHUD Special Edition
Immersive Weapons
Immersive World Encounters. FINAL SE
Lanterns Of Skyrim II
LeanWolf's Better-Shaped Weapons SE
Modern Brawl Bug Fix
MorrowLoot Ultimate (with official patches for Summermyst 4.0, Zim's Immersive Artifacts and unofficial patch for Royal Armory)
moreHUD SE
No more Mario sky
Obscure's College of Winterhold
Over 60 FPS Physics fix (no editing your ini files required)
Purist's Vanilla Patch
Realistic Lighting Overhaul SSE
Realistic Water Two
Royal Armory - New Artifacts
Run For Your Lives
SkyUI
Skyrim Flora Overhaul SE
Static Mesh Improvement Mod - SMIM
Streamlined Fishing
Summermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim
Tamrielic Distribution
The Choice is Yours
The Gildergreen Fix
Timing is Everything SE
Trade and Barter
Ultimate HD Fire Effects SSE
Unofficial High Definition Audio Project
Unofficial Skyrim Creation Club Content Patches
Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch - USSEP
Vanilla Plus Writing Purity Patch
Visible Favorited Gear
Voiced Narrative - Fishing
Winter Is Coming SSE - Cloaks
Zim's Immersive Artifacts
moreHUD SE

A very basic, vanilla+ list

>>3837206
>alone
*laughs in General Decianus' "invalids"*

>>3836772
what hardware to do you have? I'll recommend textures based on that.
but yeah, get the unofficial patch, the skyrim modders patch, all of the engine fixes, script optimizations, etc. you're doing good with powerofthrees tweaks and SPID so far.

>>3837248
>Immersive Armors
>Immersive Weapons
dear god, no. these are old, outdated, and full of scripts that will bloat the fuck out of your game. there are much more recent mods that use SPID to do the same thing in a more elegant way.

>>3837248
This is such a boomer list, lmao. If you are new to modding you should google Wabbajack modlists.

>>3837313
Less is more when it comes to modding games. The whole point is you’re tailoring the game to your own preferences by hand picking a small number of mods you chose yourself, ideally small mods you made yourself, so that you understand exactly what it does and why. Saying “just download some giant list of shitty mods put together by some retard on the Internet” sounds absolutely horrible.

>>3837265
>there are much more recent mods
You cannot list a single mod that adds dozens of vanilla-adjacent weapons and armors that fit right in like these ones do

>>3837313
Likewise

Anons always say shit like this they then post their own mod lists and it's some ugly vaseline-smeared Souls-like game with pic related armors, btw

>>3837369
here yo go bro:
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/124645
and all distributed with spid.

>>3837393
>here's a bunch of ugly animu MMO weapons and a copypasted Dad of War 2018 axe
No thanks

>>3837265
>these are old
Nothing wrong with that
>outdated
Not with the "Retexture and Mesh Fixes" add-on that anon also listed (last updated 2023 with 1.5 million downloads btw)
>and full of scripts that will bloat the fuck out of your game
Just flat out wrong with its 2 month old reimplementation via Sentinel
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/119809
And even without it, millions of people have used these mods for 15 years and nobody had their savefiles broken because of 'em. The *very worst* thing that Immersive Armors will do nowadays is maybe have some floating blood on some armors depending on where they're hit. That's it. Armor mashups having extra polys from multiple sets being harmful isn't true for 99% of people. Skyrim uses low-poly armor meshes that cause an insanely low performance hit. You could easily have an armor mashup comprised of a dozen sets with no real issue. One set of 2k or 4k armor will hit your performance much harder, because of low-poly meshes being so performance friendly. Textures are much more "expensive" for the game to run. Even though armors have multiple meshes, the game is not rendering these polys, and more importantly, it is not rendering the textures associated with these polys.

>>3837313
A mod that is no longer being updated ≠ "outdated". Sometimes, mods are just complete.

>>3837369
Or even better, the "we have Mount & Blade/Ass Creed Valhalla at home" type of armors that forget about the fantasy side of TES and remove Skyrim's artstyle in favor of "muh realistic gambesons".

>>3837393
Not beaing the "modders just want to turn Skyrim into Elden Slop" allegations with that mod.

>>3837466
>via Sentinel
this is legitimately cool bro. an implementation of immersive armors that uses skypatcher and keywords for execution. i like it.
but i still maintain the original immersive armors is a shitty implementation, even if it was a necessity at the time.

>>3836914
I'm not upset you just seem like lemmings.

>>3837165
>People never advocate for rocking the boat when the vast majority of the people are doing well.
You're a dumbass redditor moron. Ever heard the phrase "luxury belief?"

>>3837502
Which basically never goes anywhere in good circumstances. It's almost impossible for outside beliefs to gain traction when things are doing well because no one wants to ruin what they already have, especially the lower class. Fix the economy and they lose their power.

>>3837500
Isn't it the opposite? People who reject mods typically say that they want Todd's vision, as if they cannot engage with something unless some imagined authority figure has sanctioned it. These kinds of lemmings mostly play multi-player games where they are among their herd, I imagine.

I just like the Dragonsteel Arrows. Add them to a newer mod and I'll stop using IW.

>>3833667
>go back to pol!!!!
Feeling called out?

>>3808390 (OP)
I like how everyone is having a real argument about the pros and cons of the Stormcloaks and Ulfric's character complete with political allusions when the real reason so many people are anti-Ulfric is that the game portrays him as a bit of a smug prick.
Skyrim doesn't have a great story so most people just pick the guy who was nicer to them.

>>3837990
People don't want to admit that by and large, most people will just side with whoever is nicer to them, their enemy is the last person to slight them, and ideology doesn't actually matter.

>>3837990
He didn't seem like a smug prick to me at all.
He just seemed like a competent and self-assured man who has a very solid notion of who he is and speaks directly. If anything, I value those kinds of traits.
I genuinely have autism though so maybe I guess I have a much higher tolerance for people like that.

>>3837990
>the real reason so many people are anti-Ulfric is that the game portrays him as a bit of a smug prick.
..when/how is he portayed as a smug prick?

>>3836926
enjoy your incorrect opinion.

>>3838814
Redditors interpret confident men with a strong conception of self identity as an inherent threat. It has to do with their internalized feminism, look up oofy doofy theory

stormcloaks gud