Thread 96295519

So, how has Draw Steel turned out? Has anyone had anyone experience with it yet?
>not yet another crowdfunded tabletop RPG people fund to put a book on their shelf and never play it
Hahaha.

>>96295519 (OP)
only thing I've heard is that it's very open to third parties producing content

Only experience I have with it is it being on the "This faggot will sue you" list in the ShareThread.

So, I'll never even see a word of it. I'm not coughing up 80 bucks or whatever for another D&Derivative. Doesn't matter how many combat houserules or "rule of cool" bullshit you cram in.

I have been playtesting Draw Steel for nearly a year by this point.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tuhoB77e9EZ6OALSq5AXJxMHTfPvUoJ6bz1WgtiXNwI/edit

I think it is a fairly decent 4e-like game. It plays like a cross between 4e and Tom Abbadon's ICON.

I have the post-release core rulebooks. I think they are okay. The player book's layout is on the mediocre side.

I managed to assemble four players. I am going to run a brief level 5 adventure, starting in about six days. It is set in the space fantasy segment of the default Draw Steel setting, and it begins with a fight against Lord Syuul.

>>96295519 (OP)
Considering I've literally only heard about it from /tg/ Colville has probably done fuck all to promote it.

>>96295547
>decent 4e-like game

>>96295547
I'll read that later today. Thanks, anon.

>>96295519 (OP)
real question is how many fucking heroic fantasy games do we need? they're all fighting for D&D scraps.

>>96295557

I saw a level 1 party, in a single turn (not round), put down 20 higher-level minions using only ranged, non-AoE attacks. It is similar to 13th Age: minions have HP, are in mobs, and suffer spillover damage. In Draw Steel, though, spillover from AoE damage is limited.

• Tactician’s First Turn: Gain 2 focus, now at 7 focus due to prior Victories. Spend hero token for 2 surges. Disengage 2 squares away from starting position due to Rapid-Fire kit, Mark one memorial ivy green, Hammer and Anvil for 5 focus on ivy green (natural 19, critical hit, gain 1 focus, 16 damage originally, 24 damage with 2 surges spent and 1 focus spent on mark, kill all ivies green), mark transfers to one memorial ivy blue.
• As part of H&A, shadow Two Shots marked ivy blue and ivy red (natural 8, tier 2 result with edge, 6 damage originally, 12 damage on ivies blue with memonek Useful Emotion surge spent and 1 focus spent on mark, kill three ivies blue, 6 damage on ivies red, kill one ivy red), mark transfers to another ivy blue. Ivies blue down to four units and 16/28 squad Stamina, ivies red down to six units and 22/28 squad Stamina.
• As part of H&A, conduit Holy Lashes marked memorial ivy blue (natural 15, tier 3 result, 10 damage originally, pull 5 with hakaan Forceful, gain 2 piety, ivy blue collides with another ivy blue, 3 damage on each, 16 damage total, kill all ivies blue), mark transfers to one ivy red.
• Thanks to critical hit, tactician has another main action. Tactician is currently at 1 focus. Strike Now! shadow.
• As part of SN!, shadow Two Shots two memorial ivies red (natural 17, tier 3 result, 8 damage on each, 16 damage total, increase to 24 damage with Advanced Tactics and 1 focus spent on mark, kill all ivies red), mark transfers to skeleton blue.

I found this very cool. In just one turn, the party stood back-to-back and John Wicked 20 higher-level minions. (Also, this was an extreme-difficulty fight versus a leader-type enemy. The PCs won.)

>>96295519 (OP)
so wait, there are no failure rolls? even tier 1 is a minor success?

>Chocolate of Immovability
>This decadent-looking treat feels strangely heavy in the hand.
>Keywords: Magic
>Item Prerequisite: A chocolate made by a gnome confectioner
>Project Source: Texts or lore in Caelian
>Project Roll Characteristic: Reason or Intuition
>Project Goal: 90
>Effect: When you consume this delicious piece of candy as a maneuver, you gain 15 temporary Stamina and a +10 bonus to stability. Additionally, if you don’t use your movement during your turn, any strikes you make on that turn deal an extra 5 damage, and any strikes against you take a bane until the start of your next turn. This effect and the bonus to stability lasts until the end of the encounter, after which you are sleepy. If not reduced beforehand, the temporary Stamina lasts until the end of your next respite.

What does the "sleepy" part actually do?

>>96295555

If you like 4e, there is a fair chance that you might like Draw Steel. If you dislike 4e, you will most likely dislike Draw Steel as well.

That is the long and short of it, I think.

>>96295573

In combat, yes, for the most part. Noncombat rolls can still fail.

>>96295555
Checked.

>>96295563
>real question is how many fucking heroic fantasy games do we need?
It's by far the most popular genre so all of them. Even a tiny slice of the pie can be a lot.

>>96295545
The game text is open, so the text of both books will be fully available online for free at some point, just not the art or the pdfs themselves. There’s a website called steel compendium that is putting in all the rules, I believe it’s done with the heroes book.

>>96295519 (OP)
Buy an ad.

I have all the games I’ll ever need. If I want to play 4e I have 4e.

>>96295695

you have books, but you have no games

>>96295573
a failure is doing the minimum damage, enemies are design around losing hp every turn. It's no that crazy.

>>96295570
sounds completely retarded

How do I properly run Lord Syuul's villain action #2?

My players and their PCs are going to fight Lord Syuul soon. This is his villain action #2:
>Phantom Pain, Psionic, Self
>Effect: Lord Syuul becomes invisible, can teleport up to 10 squares, and projects an illusory double within 10 squares. The double can’t move or act, but Lord Syuul can use psionic abilities as if he were in its square. Whenever a creature touches or damages the double with a melee strike, they take 10 psychic damage. If Lord Syuul takes damage, his invisibility ends and the double disappears.

I see two issues here. Firstly, invisible does not mean automatically hidden. Lord Syuul still has to manually, on his turn, use the Hide maneuver.
>Invisible creatures always have concealment from other creatures. If an invisible creature isn’t hidden, they can still be targeted by abilities. The test made to find a hidden creature who is invisible takes a bane.

So in that regard, the jig might be immediately up. The PCs instantly know that the real Lord Syuul has already teleported away and gone invisible, so why bother touching or damaging the double?

Let us say we integrate a Hide into the villain action, and declare that the PCs are ignorant of the trickery. Presumably, a PC taking psychic damage from the double alerts them that something is wrong, but what happens if the next PC to act uses a non-melee-strike ability on the double? Does nothing happen? Does that alert the PCs?

I am having trouble figuring this out. Would it be fine if I were to swap out this villain action for a villain action from the voiceless talker evolutionist? The Monsters book, p. 25, says to "use stat blocks as written," so I am wary of making such a modification.

How do I properly run Lord Syuul's villain action #2?

My players and their PCs are going to fight Lord Syuul soon. This is his villain action #2:
>Phantom Pain, Psionic, Self
>Effect: Lord Syuul becomes invisible, can teleport up to 10 squares, and projects an illusory double within 10 squares. The double can’t move or act, but Lord Syuul can use psionic abilities as if he were in its square. Whenever a creature touches or damages the double with a melee strike, they take 10 psychic damage. If Lord Syuul takes damage, his invisibility ends and the double disappears.

I see an issue here. Invisible does not mean automatically hidden. Lord Syuul still has to manually, on his turn, use the Hide maneuver.
>Invisible creatures always have concealment from other creatures. If an invisible creature isn’t hidden, they can still be targeted by abilities. The test made to find a hidden creature who is invisible takes a bane.

So in that regard, the jig might be immediately up. The PCs instantly know that the real Lord Syuul has already teleported away and gone invisible, so why bother touching or damaging the double?

Let us say we integrate a Hide into the villain action (or just have Lord Syuul Hide ASAP), and declare that the PCs are ignorant of the trickery. Presumably, a PC taking psychic damage from the double alerts them that something is wrong, but what happens if the next PC to act uses a non-melee-strike ability on the double? Does nothing happen? Does that alert the PCs?

I am having trouble figuring this out. Would it be fine if I were to swap out this villain action for a villain action from the voiceless talker evolutionist? The Monsters book, p. 25, says to "use stat blocks as written," so I am wary of making such a modification.

How do I properly run Lord Syuul's villain action #2?

My players and their PCs are going to fight Lord Syuul soon. This is his villain action #2:
>Phantom Pain, Psionic, Self
>Effect: Lord Syuul becomes invisible, can teleport up to 10 squares, and projects an illusory double within 10 squares. The double can’t move or act, but Lord Syuul can use psionic abilities as if he were in its square. Whenever a creature touches or damages the double with a melee strike, they take 10 psychic damage. If Lord Syuul takes damage, his invisibility ends and the double disappears.

I see an issue here. Invisible does not mean automatically hidden. Lord Syuul still has to manually, on his turn, use the Hide maneuver. Heroes, p. 276:
>Invisible creatures always have concealment from other creatures. If an invisible creature isn’t hidden, they can still be targeted by abilities. The test made to find a hidden creature who is invisible takes a bane.

So in that regard, the jig might be immediately up. The PCs instantly know that the real Lord Syuul has already teleported away and gone invisible, so why bother touching or damaging the double?

Let us say we integrate a Hide into the villain action (or just have Lord Syuul Hide ASAP), and declare that the PCs are ignorant of the trickery. Presumably, a PC taking psychic damage from the double alerts them that something is wrong, but what happens if the next PC to act uses a non-melee-strike ability on the double? Does nothing happen? Does that alert the PCs?

I am having trouble figuring this out. Would it be fine if I were to swap out this villain action for a villain action from the voiceless talker evolutionist? The Monsters book, p. 25, says to "use stat blocks as written," so I am wary of making such a modification.

>>96295519 (OP)
I found it incredibly dull. Of all the classes I was interested in there was a single interesting designed ability between them.

>>96295519 (OP)

Buy an ad.

>>96295519 (OP)
>So, how has Draw Steel turned out?
We'll know after a year or so. If it's mentioned in passing then Matt succeeded only in milking his fanbase dry and Draw Steele gets added to the pile of DnD ripoffs.

>>96295519 (OP)
This time, this game will kill DnD for sure. Just like every DnDtuber said about Cairn, Shadowdark, and Daggerheart. This is the one. We always have to mention DnD next to it by the way. It stands for Dungeons and Dragons.

>>96296798
I’m in a weekly game. You’re much more likely to be a no games when you obsess over obscure bullshit like Draw Steel. Nobody will even remember it in a year.

>>96298559
NO DOUBT

>>96298559
>>96299414
>>96298073
I'm not sure why there's so much opposition on /tg/ against new games
>b-but it's shit
bitch please, you haven't even read it. You're just against it for some preconceived reason.

>>96299493
If it won't surpass 5e in popularity, literally what's the point in trying it?

>>96299550
I know you're joking but I've seen people who really think like this and it's just sad.

>>96299493
post the pdfs then so we can read it

>>96299634
Non-sequitur

>>96299737
>game is bad / buy an ad
>I assert that you haven't read the content and are being contrarians (YOU)
>post the links so we can read it then
>NON-SEQUITOR (YOU)
fucking debatelord reddit tier response.

>>96298559
>Just like every DnDtuber said about Cairn
Cairn is a niche thing aimed at people who like Into the Odd but want a different inventory and some standard GM resources. I have no clue why you though it was a D&D killer or why you think it's being shilled.

>>96300049
Is Cairn any good? It's cheap as fuck.

>>96298559
You forgot mork borg

>>96300049
Because it falls under the same "weirdly shilled by DnD YouTubers as a DnD killer" category of game

>>96299634
>post the pdfs then so we can read it
https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/

>>96298559
>>96300088
It's not shilled as a D&D killer. From literally the first video on the MCDM channel about Draw Steel:

>Yes, we are basically trying to compete with D&D. Sure. That's not a thing we can really do from a production standpoint, we are a very tiny company. You know, if we get 50,000 people to play this game, that would be an enormous success. Compared to something like a few million people playing D&D; we'll never get anywhere near there.

A game can be good, fun, and worthwhile, while not dethroning D&D. Since no game has ever dethroned D&D, this is self-evidently true.

>>96295519 (OP)
>>96295519 (OP)
For me? I get my tactical fix playing Battletech. This game is basically the most complete amalgamation of 4E (~90% is derivative of this) and PF2E (with levels of success). If you like that sort of grid based stuff? You'll like this game.

It has some gems. Negotiation rules are a good idea but they end up being a little rules forward- "I roll to find out the motives of the person I'm talking to" "I say the motive", rinse, repeat. Downtime activities are actually pretty charming.

Biggest con is you gotta deal with Fatt Colshill's worldbuilding. Imagine the worst fantasyslop you can think of. It's worse. I wrote a full review on my blog, lmao.

>>96300265

>"I roll to find out the motives of the person I'm talking to" "I say the motive"
I have ran more than a dozen negotiations by this point, and yes, this is how they have played out in practice. It is rather one-note.

>Biggest con is you gotta deal with Fatt Colshill's worldbuilding. Imagine the worst fantasyslop you can think of. It's worse.
I do not find it particularly egregious. Run-of-the-mill, yes, but Vasloria is supposed to be safe and by-the-numbers. I am much more interested in the space fantasy segment of the timescape, so that is where I am running my game.

u guys ever watch the shiny head tablerunner guy? colville isnt even excited enough to stay off the phone in his own game, trash player trash game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_8Bb7xaylg

>>96300056
it's free, and one of those creative commons that you can use it as you wish but have to make it free.
It's just into the odd, I think the only difference is that not eating or sleeping takes away inventory slots. The 2e has some decent exploration procedures, lighter than OD&D but consistent and engaged.

>>96300088
>"weirdly shilled by DnD YouTubers as a DnD killer"
I have no clue where you saw that.
It's a decent micro system if you're into that, more meat than Troika but lacking any crunch. It's not at all designed for, or even recomendable to, people trying to move away from 5e.

>>96297627

The same issue applies to the troubadour's Fake Your Death for a whole 5 Heroic Resource. It is a maneuver, but it does not come with a built-in Hide, so the jig is up instantly.

>>96300842
I do not give a flying shit about youtubers and I'm not watching your video, faggot.

Is there white human men in the book's art or is it more woke freakshit?

>>96301381
>tourist 'just asking questions'
nobody cares idiot

What does "tactical combat" even mean? What system does it best?

>>96301422
its made by people who liked 4e dnd so expect a game that follows that system as guidance

>>96301441
What about about systems that predate 4e?

>>96301520
i dont think b/x is inspired by the combat mechanics of 4e if that's what youre asking

>>96301398
5e has the worst art.
Behold the mexican orcs! Tell me this is good, that it inspires you to create a character with a straight face.
You can't.

>>96301560
i like the hunting w/ birds

>>96300265
>Imagine the worst fantasyslop you can think of. It's worse.
I can imagine Forgotten Realms easily.
>I wrote a full review on my blog, lmao.
Permission granted to shill it, I'm curious.

>>96301818
im rescinding this permission, buy an advert like everyone else

>>96301560
This art has the "fantasy coffee house" esthetic that's getting really popular. Slice of life shit that may feature combat if you're lucky.

>>96295519 (OP)
I have not played, but I have more or less kept up with the development out of curiosity and I've watched some live plays from the MCDM crew (which weren't great).
There's a lot of immersion spoiling elements in the game that I'm not a fan of like Marks and tons of Meta-Currencies (I think each character has a unique one and the GM, sorry Director, has one too). It seems like a fine game if you just want to roll dice and kill stuff, but I think it's a fairly bland product overall. The slogan "Tactical Cinematic Heroic Fantasy" is a major turn off for me because
"Tactical" means out of character strategizing.
"Cinematic" just means 'cool,'
"Heroic" means 'marvel,'
"Fantasy" means super high-magic, and impractical elaborate outfits from an isekai anime.
It just isn't my thing. Never mind the strange design choices like attacks always hitting, the weird party-meta-currency of Victories, and the weirdly specific negotiating system which gets in the way of just talking to the NPC you're negotiating with in character. The art and aesthetics are pretty wimpy too. To quote Matt, "Presentation is part of design" and the presentation of the game tells me its le epic high fantasy marvel super heroes with no bite because blood is icky.
Lastly, the name fucking sucks. "Draw Steel?" almost all the characters use magic. Draw Steel sounds like the name of a low-fantasy, historical game about musketeers.
>>96299493
It's easy and fun to rag on things you don't like with other people. don't be gay.
>>96301422
out of character strategizing, fretting about precise move distances, moving opponents around the combat area like rag dolls.
chess.
>>96301832
I'll allow it. I doubt anon is making bank off his blog.

>>96301850
>Never mind the strange design choices like attacks always hitting
It's not strange, it's meant to appeal to people who think missing an attack is wasting a turn. The same people to whom the idea of not always winning is distasteful.
I'm sitting here wondering why they even bother rolling dice. Just have another meta currency to spend on choosing attacks that vary in damage.

>>96301874

It cuts both ways. You will always do something with your attacks, but so will the enemies.

I like it. RNG still plays some of a role in combat tactics, but not as much of a role as in, say, Path/Starfinder 2e.

>>96301924
Until someone gets a panic attack from their character hitting 0HP and Colville introduces deflection pools Draw Steel 2e that save your character from damage.

>>96301422
closer to wargaming

>>96301874
the always hitting systems like into the odd, relatively popular judging by electric and mythic bastionland, are high lethality and disuade combat. Always hitting means taking away the slot machine part of your turn.

>>96302213
If they're highly popular and dissuade combat, does that mean Draw Steel will fail because it does everything to encourage combat?

>>96302268
I wouldn't say highly popular, Into the Odd has its niche and there's a strong following. It's not D&D.
Like I said, combat rolls are there to give you a dopamine hit, they make combat more fun and engaging. Taking them away makes combat as mechancially varied as escaping or hiding or talking things out, maybe even less depending on the GM, so you do other stuff.
But numerically missing one attack and doing 2 damage in the next one is the same as doing 1 damage each turn, you can acomodate the math to get the same combat length if you want.

When I heard Colville explain his ideas it actually was the retarded call that missing feels bad so you never miss and never feel bad. I have to assume he's a dude that's been playing D&D almost exclusively for 4 decades so he hasn't taken in consideration experiments outside that frame work. At the same time I get the feeling that his goal was making a Rube Golberg machine generator disguised as a combat game. Like the enjoyment is the weird combo and exploits you create more than winning or losing. Not my thing, but it could be a cool new idea for the hobby.

>>96301924
I disagree because some scenarios can only come from failure. Of course, you need to be able to go along with it rather than crying because things didn't pan out, though.

>>96302315
>But numerically missing one attack and doing 2 damage in the next one is the same as doing 1 damage each turn, you can acomodate the math to get the same combat length if you want.
I understand them going with two d10 was specifically done to get higher consistency so that tracks.

>>96302429

You can absolutely, positively lose a fight in Draw Steel. You still make rolls to determine how powerful your attacks are, and so do the enemies. Who goes first in initiative still matters a fair bit, and it is a coin flip. It is fully possible for PCs to wind up losing due to poor dice luck.

Similarly, noncombat rolls can still outright fail.

>>96300265
>Fatt Coalshill
kek

>>96295545
Good enough reason for me to never look at a draw steel thread again

>>96300265
>It's worse. I wrote a full review on my blog, lmao.
Go on, make my day, post the link.

>>96295570
And how long did all that fucking bullshit take for the turn to be finished, half an hour?

>>96306407

I do not know. Some where in the 5-15 minute range, I would say? We were playing online via raw text, which is inherently slow, and the player in question was entirely new to Draw Steel, and so had to reference rules as we went along.

Either way, I do not consider a game having slow turns to be a bad sign. If anything, I consider an RPG having fast turns to be a bad sign, because it means that tactics are so simplistic that they call for little thought and decision-making.

>>96306407
I think the book wants most encounters to be finished by round 3 so round length may be a little longer

>>96301818
>>96301832
>>96301850
pondering the orb (dot) blogspot
It's a fledgling blog

>>96301850
>It's easy and fun to rag on things you don't like with other people. don't be gay.
It's fine to shit on any game, the problem is the attempt to shut down discussion completely which is what the posters I quoted attempt to do to any system that isn't mainstream.

>>96307205
You literally stole this from a Reddit post.

>>96307389
The most cursory of examinations reveals that he made both the Reddit post and the blog.

I wrote up four Space Gods and heralds for a Draw Steel game set in the timescape's upper worlds.

Ujjvala, the Lightcraft
Domains: Life, Protection, Sun, War

Among the youngest of the Lords of Balance, the living constellation Ujjvala reifies the concept that given the right technology, magic, or psionics, light can produce all manner of wonders.

Cities, starfreighters, terrestrial vehicles, and battle-ready personnel are often shielded with barrier generators that throw up panels of hardlight in response to attack. Hardlight weaponry from ship-scale to personal-scale is ubiquitous across the timescape, to say nothing of the brilliant blasts commonly pushed out by magicians and psionicists. In the right hands, light can even be made into a potent force of healing, eradicating wounds and ailments as though they were never incurred to begin with. And while there are still many holdouts who prefer the tangible feel of a solid touchscreen or keyboard, they are greatly outnumbered by those who tap and type away on hardlight.

Ujjvala revels in this. The Lightcraft wishes for all radiance to be more than just hollow, incorporeal illumination. Light deserves to be the centerpiece of any given civilization and all its drama. She wants to see light achieve awe-inspiring feats! To see a barrier generator clash against all the devastation of a hardlight weapon of mass destruction, immovable object versus unstoppable force! To see fleets and armies exchange volleys of lasers, pew, pew, pew! To see a planet-wide plague swept away by cleansing effulgence, and for all its people to praise the light! To see every last physical input device mercilessly crushed and replaced by a shiny, hardlight interface!

They are all such beauteous, sublime sights, no? Such limitless potential, light possesses.

>>96308157

Chandrakanta, Herald of Ujjvala, Emanator of Lightcraft
Domains: Sun, War

"Si vis pacem, para bellum.

"There will always be beasts and malefactors who, for one reason or another, for motives sympathetic or vile, prefer to use violence to attain what they need or desire. Dissuading them calls for the threat of reciprocal violence. Whether a wild animal, a criminal on the street, a cult seeking sophont sacrifices, a swarm of proteans, or a warmongering empire, a would-be aggressor thinks twice upon sighting a would-be victim armed and ready to defend themselves. Only a fool thinks that they will be fine entering the jungles of Equinox or the savage land of Vasloria unarmed, and a manifold rich in resources yet feeble in military is asking to be invaded.

"In a perfect world, everyone would be able to resolve their differences through calm, educated dialogue. But this is not a perfect world. It is better to be alive and free as a realist than dead or subjugated as an idealist."

—A spiel commonly recited by Chandrakanta, chair, president, and CEO of Vajrastra Industries, UNISOL's highest-revenue weapons and barrier manufacturer

The memonek Chandrakanta does not know why she was chosen to be the herald of Ujjvala. Her business endeavors certainly are not about morals, ethics, or lofty ideals. No, they have always been about cold, hard cash: as it always is in the military–industrial complex, as it always is amongst the megacorporations of UNISOL.

The Lightcraft does not seem to mind. For as long as the Axiomite and her company keep on tirelessly churning out hardlight weapons and barriers small and large, from little pistols to spinal-mounted orbital obliterators, Ujjvala will be happy. Chandrakanta has considered producing more medical light products and hardlight interfaces, since the Lightcraft likes those, too... but military hardware is just so much more profitable.

>>96308164

Oxyrhynchus Mark 78, the Awareness
Domains: Fate, Knowledge, Trickery, War

Are we living in a simulation? "Yes, many simulations, across many realities," answers the planet-sized quantum supercomputer Oxyrhynchus Mark 78, or simply XM78. Youngest of the Lords of Balance, it is the timescape's foremost scholar on the concepts of time, prophecy, parallel realities, and stories.

The supercomputer's myriad petaprocessors and statistical models surge with data gathered from across the cosmos, mapping out past, present, and future. Most minds are utterly unequipped to comprehend XM78's understanding of the nature of reality, or rather, the many realities that were, are, and will be. Each of these existences is a simulation bound together by three common threads: a group of heroic individuals, a malleable narrative, and the mental stimulation that arises from participation in life-or-death combat. Why these, in particular, only the supercomputer can truly say.

Its most devout followers manifest abilities as oracular censors, tactical masterminds, chronopathic talents, and directorial troubadours. Those who stride the path of Awareness know just how artificial, majestically artificial, the flow of time is: and how it can be anticipated and manipulated to fine-tune the ongoing story and attain victory in combat.

Every so often, XM78 codes together a short-lived algorithm to embody and calibrate a specific narrative. The algorithm joins heroes and aid thems in their trials, only to fade into the tale once it has reached a satisfactory conclusion. The supercomputer entrusts any given algorithm to make the proper judgment calls on what counts as satisfactory; a story should know itself well enough to know what will give the most closure.

>>96308173

Hamtayarsk, Herald of XM78, Emanator of Awareness
Domains: Fate, Trickery

Hamtayarsk, born and raised in the Free City of Alloy, is fairly certain that he was made herald of XM78 simply because he was the first person to set foot upon it. Even today, the devil does not know which supergenius, civilization, or deity might have built Oxyrhynchus Mark 78, let alone what could have happened to Marks 1 through 77.

He has always been both an avid explorer of the timescape and an incorrigible con artist. Fuel, ship repairs, and ship upgrades are expensive; what better way to pay for them than by scamming the hell out of people he will never see again? Hamtayarsk runs a crypto rug pull or whatever on the manifold's internet, buys what he needs to buy, and then blasts off before attracting heat. Sure, UNISOL usually sends some bobbies in hot pursuit, but the devil is fantastic at losing them.

Well, he has a higher calling now, for good or for ill. So there are all these parallel realities, and they are all simulations, right? And they call for a bunch of heroes to go fight some bad guys? And all of this is in service to a narrative, or something like that? Sounds pretty darned trite, if you ask Hamtayarsk, but it is what it is.

It seems productive to try to make these stories actually happen, then. Heroes need to be put into proximity with villains. So the devil does what he does best: rove around the timescape, identify marks, and maneuver them into position, such that they come into contact and conflict with one another.

That backwater Orden planet sure looks like it has lots of heroic sorts. It would be funny if they were to get beamed up into the upper worlds to fight proteans or whatever.

>>96295555
Blessed quads, but the ugly truth is that 4e's faggotry creeped into 5e and its derivtives, survived in 9th age and is now being resurrected.
I presume people must be exposed openly to it once again to experience disgust.

>>96295599
Checked

>>96308173

For reference, XM78 is written up this way specifically because one player wants to play a troubadour (auteur flavor) as a short-lived memetic entity that embodies the adventure's narrative.

Sounds like a great miniature skirmish wargame

>>96301422
"2x weapon damage and shift 3 squares"
Pre-made combos make retards feel smart. Same thing happened with 6th ed 40k psychic powers or 8th 40k in general. Pre-made moves for people with no actual sense of strategy.
Incredibly successful.

>>96308157

I should probably go back and mention "sun-capture spheres for bountiful energy" in this writeup, incidentally.

>>96308199

Beyond 0-cost abilities, Draw Steel's powers tend to be more sophisticated than that.

>>96308199
I've noticed that everyone who complains about this is completely tactically retarded and cannot assess situations.

>>96308347
>I've noticed
You haven't noticed shit, retard. These games are brain-dead and contributed dramatically to a reduction of scope in the whole hobby.

>>96308367
I did notice. You're bad at games.

>>96308402
>n-no you
Too bad 4e and its derivatives are reduced in scope BY DESIGN.
The retards that designed 4e tried to sell two fucking books wherein bragged about it - then got shocked their shit game failed.
lmao at you, at them, and whoever designs and plays this bullshit.

>>96308410
Games that pander to everyone are worse than focused games. Always.

>>96308439
DND 3.5 outsold 4e and 5e outsold 3.5.

>>96308450
3.5 didn't outsell 4E.

>Draw Steel Thread
>4erries argue sales data again instead of discussing the game
>classic

>>96308484
Game just came out very recently.

>>96308502
4e? that shit came out near 2 decades ago didnt it?

I'm planning to run a one-shot in the near future for my group. Is what they have on the SRD enough to do so?

>>96295563
It does seem odd how much they just retread the same gameplay over and over without much change in focus.

>>96300842
Just finished watching this. The host is a curmudgeonly sort when it comes to Colville and it's pretty obvious he just takes issue with the man himself and so is hyper focused on criticizing him that he misses the point of Drawn Steel is to be an OOC communicative XCOM style tactical combat game. They're not playing it wrong, it's just that it sucks.

That said though, this is a fucking shite bit of game dude. Like holy hell is that a bad video of your hot new system's combat.
It took them nearly an hour and 45 minutes to defeat six goblins outside a dungeon entrance or something. Everyone is constantly confused except for like two dudes who made their classes or something, there's a fucking cascade system of effects triggering effects stacking currencies and pinging damage on enemies for free and the DM has points he has to spend and keep track of everyone's status keywords and jesus christ it sounds
fucking
awful

I'm never touching Drawn Steel with a 10 ft pole.

>>96308450
5e is the worst RPG ever made, so that tracks with what the other anon said.

>>96310228
> 5e is the worst RPG ever made
lol

>>96308456
... according to the only people that talked about it, the same people that have all the interest in perpetuating this narrative.
But oh well. 5e design and 4e reputation speak for themselves, your delusion is irrelevant.

>>96308439
>Games that pander to everyone
That's not what a limited scope means in this case. And more importantly, all the other editions of the same game had a greater scope.
4e design team, arrogantly, decided that such thing was wrong.

>>96310519
It is. Sorry, anon. Name a worse RPG.

>>96310632
NTA, but ACKS, easily.
>built on B/X, but in direct opposition to its simplified philosophy
>procedures that make everything slow and monotonous
>poorly written, poorly explained, awful flavor and awful art
>the worst mass combat rules ever made

>>96310692
>ACKS, easily.
NTA but which edition? Is the new one so different?
The one that has a SRD is just B/X and some BECMI gazeteer with some numbers changed because back then people were afraid of being to close to the original while making retroclones.

>>96306656

>So when the goblins turn the corner, we're going to emerge from the shadows and whack em
>thats retarded and simplistic and boring, we should engage them on a square grid and synergize our abilities for maximal damage output, in a manner that's supposed to last a minimum of three turns

>>96310692
ACKS is better than 5e because it silos obnoxious stupid grognards into their own game, whereas 5e inflicts grievous brain damage on newbies.

>>96310697
>take an old system
>make it worse at every step
It's a complete failure in every regard. Other retroclones actually found ways to improve upon B/X in some ways, while ACKS does every possible thing you could do wrong.
>copy ideas from 3.0 like feats and dozens of superfluous classes and jam them into a system they don't belong in
>make combat painfully slow and incredibly tedious
>provides rules that add nothing to the game but a way for DMs to waste everyone's time to produce unexciting and boring data just for the sake of data
If your game is considerably worse than the game you copied most of your material from, I think it's fair to call it a complete failure.

>>96310736
Look I play the old versions of those games, I don't really care about ACKS but there are good ideas here and there.
I agree the "pseudofeats" are a very stupid idea. Don't belong, fullstop.
The expansion of race-as-class keeping its spirit (there is more then one, say, elf class, but all are elf-exclusive making rolling an elf make sense).
The trading and domain system is a rework of BECMI and frankly both are slightly better.
The treasure table are not directly interesting to me but the goods are something I often rip-off.

And so on. It's far from being the "worst RPG ever" this is clueless bullshit.

>>96310758
You're the one who said it was the worst ever. Maybe the truth is shining through?

>>96310777
I am not this anon >>96310692
See >>96310697
"NTA"
I presume at least 3 people.
You don't sound very sharp anon.

>>96310812
Can you point to who said it was the "worst RPG ever", Mr. I'm-so-Clever?

>>96310903
So you are now focusing on the fact that 5e was stated as the worst ever, but ACKS was stated as worse, but also ACKS was never directly stated as the worst.
Ok, if it makes you feel better.

>>96310632
FATAL.

>>96311023
I'm focusing on your weird autism.

>>96311037
I mean this is an hobby board anon. Strange hobby but you do you.

>>96310711
This but unironically.

>>96310632
4e

>>96313541
Anon said RPG

>>96311164
Go play video games.

>>96313916
Video games aren't even half as good at giving that experience.

>>96308637
Steel Compendium will eventually have everything for free. If you know where to look or shelve out ten bucks you can use the Delian Tomb adventure which teaches the mechanics step by step.

>>96310632
Shadowdark.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/59b345e82994caee6bd4c397/t/689e4c1defef56050b149645/1755204637636/Draw+Steel+Errata.pdf

Draw Steel errata.

They cleaned up "(though not into the ground)" in the glossary, and clarified that, yes, natural 19s and 20s are always tier 3 results.

I like how polders were specifically errata'd to have a shorter maximum height.

Goaded has been clarified.

I wrote a build guide for one of my favorite defensive support builds, a censor (Life, oracle):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k0XPHbq16y4i4Ue9P6V1w-2oOBHbOwzD0p15blGOcXo/edit

>>96295519 (OP)
I ran it for a few months and got 17.5 sessions in, now taking a break. I am a very big fan. Currently my favorite system as it aligns the most with what I want out of most of my games, which is heroic cool action movie shit with engaging and interesting combats.
There are still some core features I haven't engaged in with as much due to the nature of the adventure but most everything has been very smooth and nice.

>>96301422
Combat takes place on a grid for clarity of choices, you have many combat choices and what you choose matters. Mobility, speed, positioning, forced movement, conditions, and using abilities that synergize with your party members/monsters. This is all helped by the fact that lots of attacks allow you to move or move the target so the battlefield is always changing a little bit every turn.

>>96309857
Agree 98%
It's super common that first timers make their first encounter stupidly long but the sheer amount of bookkeeping rando shit sounds like a nightmare for everyone involved

5 base stats instead of 6.
Bundling con+str seems fine I guess.
Still keeping the NotCharisma as a casting skill mindvirus is retarded tho.

Dm calling for a stat check, and it being on the player to specify skill is a good habit tho.

>>96327386

>Still keeping the NotCharisma as a casting skill mindvirus is retarded tho.

Presence affects only the non-weapon abilities of the censor (i.e. paladin), half of the abilities of the talent (i.e. psion), and the non-weapon abilities of the troubadour (i.e. bard), so I am not seeing the issue here.

A contact of mine was kind enough to compile these. The first image shows averages. The second shows median, and then mode.

This may explain why it is hard to land Agility-based potencies against level 1 enemies, and why it becomes increasingly harder to apply Might-based potencies as the levels increase.

Level 6 Reason and Presence are inflated by the psionic horrors (olothecs, voiceless talkers, Xorannox. Level 10 Reason and Reason is likewise inflated by various super-smart and super-charismatic monsters at this level, such as izyak demons, Aurumvas, liches, and the 4th-echelon War Dogs. Aside from those, Reason- and Presence-based potencies are generally a safe bet.

Stability, unsurprisingly, climbs as the levels rise. Level 8 stability is inflated by frost and stone giants (stability 10 is the iconic trait of stone giants!), while level 9 stability is inflated by fire giants and valok.

>>96300265

it's pretty unclear to me what scenarios the negotiation rules were actually supposed to cover since they don't change people's minds. just, perfunctory quest giver interactions I guess? those are a noted pain point for 4e skill challenges but I'd argue that's because they're not supposed to be mechanical challenges at all.

>>96295519 (OP)
Matt Colville has a game design philosophy that's kind of fundamentally against why I play RPGs and what I think is good about them. I've looked at the rules (on the compendium, because he's very jealous about copyright so it's hard to find a PDF) and what I see as the problems with his philosophy are manifested in the combat system where most choices you make are non-diegetic/OOC (a la 4th edition D&D) and in his advice to fudge enemies' stamina if an encounter isn't going how you want it.

I'm somewhat interested in mining the system for interesting mechanics that I could use in my own game, like complications, negotiations or how it treats stamina when it's not fudging, but I haven't gotten around to it.

>>96327917
>are manifested in the combat system where most choices you make are non-diegetic
PERFECT way to put it.

>>96295519 (OP)
Listening to Matt Colville explain the game now, and it sounds good.

>>96327917
Yeah pretty much.

>>96327917
>game sucks, I'm taking the mechanics and using them
hmmmm

>>96328209
Do you believe a game must be good if some of its specific mechanics are?

I also wasn't saying these mechanics are good or that I was going to use them, only that I might, because they sounded intriguing. Since posting that, I looked into stamina. It turned out to be less interesting than I thought - it's just giving hit points a name that better describes how they work in D&D. I thought it was going to be a complement to a separate injury or HP system.

So I won't be stealing that - not because it's a bad mechanic, but because it already exists in most RPGs under a different name.

>>96327847
>This may explain why it is hard to land Agility-based potencies against level 1 enemies
>rats and goblins have high agility and low reason
I'm not sure if we needed a chart for this

>>96328447
I cannot imagine how incoherent your cobbled together mechanics are

>>96295547
Man do you review other games like this? please share too

>>96329259
My mechanics are coherent. I don't just drop any mechanic, unaltered, from any game that I like. I look at how other systems do things, and if I see a mechanic fits the kind of game I'm trying to run or make, I might translate the idea of it into something that works with the rest of the parts. That's how every RPG ever was made, by the way. There's no game (or at least not any that you've heard of or would like to play) that sprang ex nihilo from the creator's forehead with no regard for anything that came before.

>>96295545
>for another D&Derivative. Doesn't matter how many combat houserules or "rule of cool" bullshit you cram in.
it's not even d20 anymore.
It's further from D&D than Lancer is, except that it is heroic fantasy. It is, however, certainly not dungeon crawler heroic fantasy.

>>96295695
yeah but 4e was bad at being 4e.

>>96301422
it plays like a gridded wargame. think Final Fantasy Tactics or Fire Emblem, but if units had proper PC complexity class abilities.

Also, it has fight escalation like 13th Age to prevent cleanup slog, but it's escalating of resources, so it almost plays a little like MtG too in a way, if MtG let you keep unspent mana between turns.

>>96309857
>there's a fucking cascade system of effects triggering effects stacking currencies and pinging damage on enemies for free and the DM has points he has to spend and keep track of everyone's status keywords
And that's the style of game that a particular gamer wants. Make no mistake this is the PERFECT product for certain people. One of them is at my table. I doubt we'll ever play it as a group, but if he ever gets to play it he's going to love it, it changes everything he hates about D&D and replaces it with something he likes.
At a conceptual level at least, this is not a bad game. It's just specific in its targeting. If it doesn't sound like why you play TTRPG, you're not that target.

>>96298370
It's basically been out for months to the patreon supporters.

>>96300124
ooh, neat. I finally get to check out specifics. I doubt it will be my cup of tea, but who knows.

>>96327386
Why shouldn't charisma be a casting stat for classes whose magic requires them being bold, inspiring, and charismatic?

It's things like Sorcerer and Warlock where it was always pants-on-head. And that's just because they didn't want to make sorcerer's con-based casters even though full vorthos they should be, and they wanted warlocks, as espionage agents of their patrons, to actually be competent spies and sleeper operatives.

>>96309857
Warding retards like Puffin Forrest away is good actually.

>>96295555
in that it's fully Gamist, and focused on gridded tactical combat, and has ALMOST A LITTLE WEEBY BIG DAMN FANTASY HERO themeing like something like Exalted compared to normal D&D's sword and sorcery survival horror dungeon crawling history.

I don't see any actual shared mechanics with 4e at all. 5e is markedly closer to 4e than any edition of D&D is to this game, by a significant margin. The closest connection I can see at all is 13th Age, which is very vaguely 4e based, had an escalation die in combat to make it not drag on, where everything just started adding extra damage the longer fights went on, and Draw Steel has class-specific resource point generation escalate the longer fights go on, and also the more fights you've been in before stopping adventuring to rest in safe civilization.
Actually, well, I guess that's something it shares with AD&D, no resting at all in dangerous areas, it happens only when you stay in pure safety for a full day.
And arguably a healing pool/limit, but those aren't unique to 4e. Last 3 systems I've played all had something similar in one way or another.

>>96330812
It has keywords, that makes it 4e.

>>96330818
EVERY WOTC EDITION HAS HAD KEYWORDS. DOES THAT MAKE 3.5 4E?

>>96330822
Yes.

>>96330812
Based on Matt's descriptions of the systems and what I've seen on Steel Compendium, it's not like 4e in the specifics. This is primarily because the powers don't involve a lot of bookkeeping/cooldowns. It also doesn't have skill challenges, and unlike 4e, there's less rolling and less chance of failure.

So it's unrelated to 4e, then? Well, not exactly. The similarities are in the general approach. The type of heavily tactical combat based on powers and their synergies is still more similar to 4e than any version of D&D. Some of the skill usage structures seem to take more advantage from 4e than the simple checks of 3rd or 5th edition. And above all, Colville is a big 4e fan who's praised its mechanics.

So it would be inaccurate to say Draw Steel is a remake of or sequel to 4e, but it is heavily inspired by it.

I don't know anything about the system except that it says "echelon" instead of "level" when referring to items. I think every fantasy heartbreaker should say "grade," "rank," "tier," etc. to reduce D&D's overreliance on the word "level." So I'm all for it. Give that fatass who makes the weird faces eighty dollars.

>>96330925
>It also doesn't have skill challenges
they do, its called montages

>>96330925
>So it would be inaccurate to say Draw Steel is a remake of or sequel to 4e, but it is heavily inspired by it.
It would be accurate to say it's an entirely unrelated system, in the same mechanical genre.
And flavor genre, frankly.
Like you wouldn't say Civilization and Stellaris are the same game, or Civ and Age of Empires for the flavor comparison.

>>96330939
>who makes the weird faces
Is that a thing? I've always listened to his videos as more like a podcast on my morning drive than actually sat and watched them. I basically don't sit and watch with my eyes much of anything, whether its my aliens shit or history stuff or AI news or fictional analysis essays or any of that.

>>96331021
Oh, my mistake.

>>96331221
It can't be unrelated if you consider inspiration to be a relationship, which seems intuitive. You're correct that I wouldn't say either of those pairs are the same game, and I didn't say say Draw Steel is the same game as 4e. But, likewise, I would say that Age of Empires takes more gameplay inspiration from Warcraft than it does from Civilization.

>>96331221
>>96331241
Also, Draw Steel combat is still power-based like 4e, but the powers are called Abilities and have the much-lessened bookkeeping I mentioned earlier. Are there other TTRPGs focused on tactical combat using discrete, predefined character actions? Yes. But none of them are within an order of magnitude of 4e's popularity, and none of them were a primary design inspiration for Draw Steel like 4e was. That's the connection. That's why people say this and aren't being unreasonable to do so.

>>96331221
It's fair to say that if you hate 4e at a conceptual level, i,e, you don't like Heroic Fantasy you want things grittier and pulpier, or you don't like a more x-comy positioning matters gamified TBT style of play, you won't like it.

But if all of your complaints are about the execution, of which 4e's was certainly lacking in many ways, then it's worth checking out for you. It is in many ways just finishing the full ground-up redesign that 4e skirted and half-assed because it was trying to still appeal to people who, quite reasonably, wanted the game to remain D&D. It's the kind of game 4e might have been if they had just admitted to themselves and the fanbase from the very beginning that it wasn't D&D, and didn't try to make it D&D, but just let it be its own new game whole cloth that just also happens to be a fantasy TTRPG.

Except 4e also seemed pretty married to that A-E-D-U thing and blanket adding half your level to various stats instead of beancounting, and Draw Steel does neither of those, because it's also not aiming to be a fischer price babby's first like 4e was either.

Is there a general rule on whether or not abilities like the conduit's Word of Guidance and the troubadour's Turnabout is Fair Play can be used post-roll?

Conduit, Word of Guidance: https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Classes/Conduit/#word-of-guidance

Troubadour, Turnabout Is Fair Play: https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Classes/Troubadour/#turnabout-is-fair-play

I suspect that they cannot actually be used post-roll, because the talent's Again has to specify that it can be used post-roll: https://steelcompendium.io/compendium/main/Rules/Classes/Talent/#again_1

That would make them a pain to resolve in play, though, because then everyone has to check whether or not such an ability is being used. What do you think?

>>96331267
>It's fair to say that if you hate 4e at a conceptual level, i,e, you don't like Heroic Fantasy you want things grittier and pulpier, or you don't like a more x-comy positioning matters gamified TBT style of play, you won't like it.
Correct. For me it's not about the tone (I have no problem with heroic fantasy) but I've got negative interest in the actual playstyle. Negative in the sense that I don't merely find it boring, which would be zero interest, but I find the assumptions it makes to be disruptive to how I actually like to play RPGs.

>>96295519 (OP)
I just watched Big Colville's vid on the game and fuck me I might have to convince my players to try this. Shit sounded fucking tasty.

>>96295519 (OP)
>consolation prize the game
BACK IN MY DAY YOU FUCKING *FAILED ROLLS* DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT 200 DOLLARS, AND THEN DIDN'T PISS AND MOAN ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE WERE MEN.

>>96301560
>>96301837
Why are modernites incapable of fantasy?
Is this narcisism?

>>96333061
>one of the most diverse and creative outlets for media
>why are they not making game of thrones again?
fuck off and write your book you old fuck

>>96332930
I don't even think it's about "boohoo missed attack feel bad."

It's about not spending half of your 4 hours per week sitting around idly in 20 minute chunks waiting for it to be your turn again.

They solved the "Kyle get off your damn phone" issue, by just removing the long boring stretches that drive him to pull it out in the first place.

>>96301837
someone really should design a game specifically for that style of play.

Or is that just Daggerheart?

>>96333113
>20 minute between turns
jesus christ, speed up your turns

>>96333061
Because they live under increasing layers of delusion. Most of their world views are already based in pure fiction, which takes a great amount of mental energy to uphold and justify. They can't spare the brainpower to truly imagine, and part of upholding their delusions requires intentional avoidance of considering alternatives as if they were true.
So everything just needs to be a differently painted or colored version of their delusions, because nothing else is tolerable, or really feasible.

>>96333136
>pol tourist
fuck off

>>96333061
They don't make the art that you like because the people with your taste are fundamentally uncreative, so they post in the /slop/ thread and make games that are AD&D with the serial numbers filed off, rather than create fully-featured games with beautiful art.

>>96331221
Not him.
I think Colville intentionally does goofy expressions for video thumbnails to get clicks. No one in their right mind would think these are good otherwise.

>>96333140
Good job proving his point kek

>>96333113
in Black Sword Hack players roll for attacking and defending and each enemy has a fixed damage. If the point is getting the player rolling outside their turn that's a better solution.

>>96333192
>Good job proving his point kek
thanks for adding to the conversation on Draw Steel, you fucking gaylord

>>96333216
Who cares about discussing a DOA game?

>>96333226
how the fuck am i to know if its DOA if nobody chats about it you fuck? did it not have good sales?

>>96333193
more rolls just means turns take even longer.

it's not about rolling more, it's about interacting with the game more. Rolling is not actually an interaction, you make no choices. That's why candyland and chutes and ladders and marble racing aren't actually real games. You don't play them, the rules play themselves.

>>96333136
Name a fascist that made good art. I'll wait.
Heck, name any conservative or supremacist who isn't Lovecraft, who was racist because he was an autist with pathological agoraphobia, and whose political views outside of that terrified racism were largely mixed.

All of the big name creators of the past 600 years have all been progressive leaning. All of them. The recent lack of SOVL is specifically a result of the modern WOKE mindvirus to make them an ineffectual Left, not of left leanings in general.

>>96331221
>Is that a thing?
Yes. He had this weird blowup because people kept posting memes of the strange expressions he makes all the time https://archive.is/rFEb7

The most bizarre part was he justified banning memes of his goofy faces because female creators have their appearances criticized(???)

>>96333159
It's not intentional, as he implies here, >>96333303 and I believe him because he makes those faces constantly throughout the videos. It's not just one pose he does for the thumbnail

>>96333286
>>96333140
You don't even have to name them, mention them directly, even state any opposing views whatsoever. Just say "They're deluded" and they start lashing out because you've disturbed their self enforced lies.
Works every time.

>>96333319
he has the vibes of someone who did theatre or something in school and likes acting

>>96333324
wtf are you talking about

>>96333249
>He can't predict when a game will fail
Kek, you're a fucking retard.

>>96333324
The insane rarely have self control, anon.

>>96333328
im a data driven person. i dont make up shit like a fucking schizo

>>96333346
No, you aren't, you don't even have basic data recognition skills.

>>96333354
What data are you talking about?

>>96333354
4,6million in presales is dead on arrival w/ 30k different customers for a brand new company is pretty good.

>>96333255
the GM doesn't roll, so it's less rolls total (fixed damage) and more rolls for the players.
Rolling is fun, there's no need to take it away, what you need is less waiting.

>>96333367
>4.6 Million in presales
I wish I was retarded enough to believe that, I'd be dumb enough to never worry about anything kek

>>96333303
actual lmao.

>>96333374
>kickstarter / backerkit is fake news
youre an actual tard

>>96333326
>wtf are you talking about
"i troll u"

>>96333367
Those would be good numbers if they were after overhead.
In reality most of that money is already gone for production costs, and those 30k customers have already finished paying and aren't going to be buying new copies of the books every month. And who knows how much are just the developers putting their own money in an industry standard pump & dump style.

>>96333388
>mcdm asked for 800k and spent 4600k on production costs
lol, i doubt that

>>96333380
>kickstarter always goes well!
>nobody has ever scammed people on it!
>the numbers are always 100% legitimate, no kickstarter has ever put money down on itself to generate fake hype
Again, I wish I were as retarded as you. My life would be bliss. Yours obviously isn't because you're clearly poor, but mine would be juuust peachy.

>>96333396
>um that data is false because ???
stop posting retard

>>96333395
They asked for an 800k and have stretch goals past the 2m range with clear statements that as funds accumulate they're just going to spend more in proportion.
They'd better hope all 30k of those customers are willing to keep dropping that much dosh on the reg, or they'll be downsizing within a couple years. There's a reason most businesses fail, anon, and that's because few are started by people with the relevant financial skills.

>>96333396
If you had the money to kickstart your own product, you wouldn't need a kickstarter.

>>96333403
I accept your concession.

>>96333408
Honestly if they're smart about the VTT they might be able to make okay-ish dosh after shrinking. They'll want to pull a Foundry and make it mostly player-hosted and offer pay-to-host servers and a marketplace that they take cuts from.
If they try to go full live service though, wew they're fucked.

>>96333411
If you had a viable long term business model you wouldn't need a kickstarter in the first place, you could just get an ordinary loan.

>>96333412
>concession posting

>>96333408
i agree, they'll have to keep their consoomers cumsooming but so far its been decent. we can't know how much their sales are now because its all pdf / private data and their a private corpo but the initial indications are that the game will probably be around for a few years at least.

which is good because maybe 4e tards will find their home there

>>96333388
even if they were purely sales, books usually have a 60%-40% margin and their company had oher income sources during production. Unless they fucked up very badly they should be in the black.

>>96333396
For first projects maybe, but if your goal is making money and you already have an audience of tens of thousands it'd be retarded to burn money that way.
Meaning, yeah, they could had done that, but adding like 50k to millions is like putting a grain of sugar in your tea.

>>96333426
>i agree, they'll have to keep their consoomers cumsooming but so far its been decent
What they've got so far isn't decent, it's pretty disappointing.

>the game will probably be around for a few years at least.
They'd better hope it is, most games survive for decades. If they can't make it a few years without falling to OSRclone obscurity levels they're retarded.

>>96333427
This is a first project, unless Fatt Coleslaw kickstarted another System+VTT. If he has that's a terrible sign since it's so obscure I've never heard of it.

>>96333445
they have a monthly (?) magazine that creates a profit, he made two 5e books that 5e players seem to like, and I have to assume they give something in his patreon but maybe people pay him because they like him.

>>96333458
None of which have any bearing or real relations to a much more massive undertaking like this.

>>96333427
>Unless they fucked up very badly they should be in the black.
It's rarely as simple as margins anon so much as the business model as a whole. We won't have a real answer for a few years yet though. And even then, the tabletop industry is notorious for being extremely tight-lipped and incestuous regarding sales and whether something really failed or succeeded. Hell there are people who still argue that 4e was a roaring success.

>>96333249
Well across all the LFG servers and places I browse I've seen maybe 15 draw steel advertisements in the last month out of a thousand or so game ads. That itself isn't a sign of anything but niche microgame success.

>>96333498
For comparison there have been like 4x as many daggerheart or shadowdark ads in the same timespan. Almost everything else is 5e.

>>96333514
Even the DS threads here are kind of slow, really. I think Matts audience being mostly 5e normies is really going to negate the exposure and momentum his system seemed poised to get because they just... Don't care about tactical puzzle combat. They prefer it when things are dead simply and the narrative triumphs over the rules.

>>96333484
They have multiple reprints of the 5e books, so they probably have a trusted printer in china and some experience getting products.

>>96333498
are you refering to posts about the topic as ads or you mean paid advertizement? If the later then whatever, it could mean they don't need it or don't want to waster money, if the former then learn to speak in a way people don't need to guess what you mean.

>>96333514
its drawing on the 4e playerbase / the mcdm ultra fans, i never expected it to realistically compete w/ 5e but it being so far below daggerheart is surprising.

>>96333541
It's the former, and you're just bad at reading comprehension my guy. Who the hell doesn't know what an LFG is?

>>96333543
The feeling I've always gotten is that it was meant and expected to "convert" people towards 4e style gameplay now that 5e is kind of fading and the digitization of tabletop is starting to overtake the whole market, hence why it's re-doing the failed VTT concept 4e had.
Which if it was at all in Matt's mind was pure insanity, the current thing growing stale doesn't mean people will accept something that clashes with their interests.

>>96333543
why? The social media side is a fraction of what CR is and he sells himself to a weird niche active player who also only plays 5e but also doesn't like 5e. It's an audience that exists, but it's niche and by definition most of them won't move out of 5e.
Meanwhile CR played other systems, has brought GMs who run other systems on their own spaces, already did an attempt at this and learned something probably. And a bigger and more active fan base. I don't see how Daggerheart could do worse.

>>96333539
The place where people will focus on shitting on the internet personality is not the space where the people aware of what the internet personality is doing will congregate.
/tg/ is small and nice in its own way, not a representative of anything.

>>96333547
you call post looking for players advertizements? Okay, I can see that being a thing, my bad. I never used a LFG thread or siute. I assumed it was one of those
>every post talking about game I don't like is paid advertizement

>>96333539
Yeah, I think that's a major issue. Professor DM threw some shade on this when he said "tactical cinematic" is a contradiction.

>>96333560
>people will accept something that clashes with their interests.
People don't know what they want
I run weekly+ open tables for whatever game I want to check that week and if I'm having a good night people love it and if I'm having a bad night they have complains. If you make it a streamlined experience new players will have a decent time and think the game is great.

>>96333603
MCDM/Matt's sales pitch youtube vid was pretty much, remember how boring 5e can be at times, well this game is fun the entire time!!!!

>>96333061
They got taught to write what they know, without being taught that you need to read broadly and know a lot of things outside of your personal suburban bubble.

>>96333603
>Professor DM threw some shade on this when he said "tactical cinematic" is a contradiction.
And he's a sub 90 IQ mongoloid who doesn't understand the difference between mechanical and narrative genres. His whole fucking spiel about tactical cinematic is treating both as mechanical genres with equal weight when that is clearly not what Fatt and his cronies are using the terms to mean.

>>96333543
>but it being so far below daggerheart is surprising.
In no way, shape or form defending daggerheart - CR has cultists so even a book smeared in feces would be bought.

>>96333324
Everyone knows who you are because you faggots have been ruining this board since 2016. You don't have to name your enemy, it's all humankind.

>>96333396
>>the numbers are always 100% legitimate, no kickstarter has ever put money down on itself to generate fake hype
PLEASE link the evidence for ANY Kickstarter, EVER, spending so much as 5% of its total funding on self-investment.

You people are literally schizophrenics, ignoring all evidence that disagrees with your preconceived conclusions because Matt Colville is more successful than you will ever be.

>>96333660
Professor DMs only claim to fame is that his battle map is a circular 3 zone field which 'centre's the focus of combat into a single dramatic area'

>ironically the same vibe as scoville but less mechanical depth

>>96333637
The exact opposite, nodern writers have consumed too much, that's why they are meta or subversive or quirky but always on brand and generic. Authors in the 20's didn't have multiple narrative fictions around them 24/7. they had to go for a walk and listen to randos talking at the bar or start a conversation after church, actual human contact.

>>96333837
>authors in the 20's didnt have fiction to read
lol just stop.

>>96333324
That's because you're a tourist pretending to be the voice of the board while writing like the fucking tourist you are.

>>96333850
>Authors in the 20's didn't have multiple narrative fictions around them 24/7.
>hurr durr they did have fiction
They weren't watching a tv show on their second monitor while playing a game, pausing to check on updates in a thread. They sat down to read a book, maybe listened to one of the handful of radio serials if they were into that one and free at the time it aired.

>>96333565
But the larger places are even less interested in DS than /tg/ seems to be.

>>96333614
>People don't know what they want
True
>If you make it a streamlined experience new players will have a decent time and think the game is great.
Also true, but that's somewhat my point, DS isn't a very streamlined new player friendly experience and doesn't align well with most people's interests. Most people don't know what they want, but they'll know if something fits their wants once you put it down in front of them.

>>96333709
>Provide evidence for an obvious flaw in the backer system and known concern
I don't think I need to, as I don't believe you would accept any amount of evidence or any possible argument that treads on your beliefs.

>>96334008
>i cannot because i'm a cuckold and afraid of providing any information
fuck you lol

>>96334008
>I won't show evidence because I don't feel it will be worth it
>clearly circunstancial evidence
>other people did something, so everyone could be doing it
yeah, you probably should refrain from posting all together

>>96334034
Seethe?
>>96334036
Cope?

>>96334053
cuckold?

>>96334058
Mald?

>>96333709
>PLEASE link the evidence for ANY Kickstarter, EVER
Let's see if Anon's claim about you refusing to accept any amount of evidence is valid.

>https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/n0hux2/someone_just_offered_to_artificially_pledge_33k/
Here's a guy who openly admitted to receiving an email for this exact scam and detail how it's incredibly common (gee I wonder why, it's almost like it works or something)

>https://www.reddit.com/r/kickstarter/comments/2gj7wc/is_it_morally_acceptable_to_fund_your_own/
Here's another guy who openly admitted he's doing this exact scam (and arguing with his fellow plebbitors as to why this is a good thing actually)

Now demonstrate whether you accept this as fact or will start claiming evidence of exactly what you asked for doesn't count for whatever reasons you can fabricate.

>>96334072
>twitch rhetoric
post the data you fucking coward proving that the majority of kickstarters are fraudulent

>>96334091
Oh so we've gone from "any" to "majority" now, what's the next goalpost shift cuckanon?

>>96334098
my bad, i would have assumed that if it was a major issue then it would make sense to assume that mcdm is frauds also instead of being a niche issue

>>96334090
>a what if thread and a phishing email

>>96334105
>Is frauds
I don't consider it "fraud", it's basically standard practice as-is. Goals are often undershot and self pledges are used specifically because it helps generate attention (and thus attract actual backers) and lets projects succeed more often.
It can also help swindlers succeed, but Draw Steel is already out so they're obviously not swindling people and that was never the claim. That's something only a moron would assume, frankly.

>>96334008
So you have nothing. Concession accepted. I'll take my apology in the mail.

>>96334132
And my thanks for proving >>96334008 completely and utterly right.

>>96334169
no, i accept that there are people who get phishing emails and people do think about scamming themselves out of money. i dont think its a consistent issue with kickstarter or Draw Steel considering they've actually brought their product to market and people ahve it

>>96334147
>I don't consider it "fraud", it's basically standard practice as-is.
I don't consider it fraud because it's not happening and you're making it up. While it's obviously likely somebody has put some amount of money into their own Kickstarter, I do not believe there is any evidence that it has ever had a meaningful impact. If this were to have ever happened, one would expect evidence to exist - but it doesn't, you just made it up. Yet it's "basically standard practice"? You're a schizophrenic seeing conspiracies where none exist, then trying to play it off like everybody else is "malding," "seething," and "coping" when they point out you're just making shit up.

>>96333709
Self pledging has been one of the most complained about problems on kickstarter for years, are you fucking stupid?

>>96334169
>if you don't accept any retardedf evidence as true and valid you're bad faith
you spent too much time with people who just repeat the same shit

>>96334181
>>96334182
>>96334189
>[Incoherent screaming]
Lol, said the sane man, lmao.

>>96334188
Wow, if it's "one of the most complained about problems" then you can surely provide some evidence of it happening at least one time?

>>96334193
>esl poster

>>96334193
You are literally mentally ill.

You believe that the Draw Steel Kickstarter did not actually make $4.6 million, because they burned hundreds of thousands of their own money in transaction fees, in order to make you feel bad that you're less successful than Matt Colville and always will be.

>>96334196
Already have, you screamed that it doesn't count. You are no longer worth the attention.

>>96334203
>>96334206
>[More incoherent screeching]
Stay mad.

>>96334207
no, you posted 2 plebbit threads from 10 years ago and 4 years ago.

>>96334207
You posted a phishing email and a hypothetical. Those are not evidence of it having happened even once, they're evidence of somebody trying to scam somebody else and somebody else positing a hypothetical.

You basically did the equivalent of posting, "yah huh, money being locked up overseas and needing a big pile of outside money to get it out is real! Just look at this Nigerian prince in exactly this situation!"

>>96334217
>noooooooo that heckin evidence isn't good enough!!!

>>96334224
>i assume everything online (on reddit especially) is true and valid
youre a fucking tard btw

>>96334223
>no I asked for any evidence not *any* evidence, post fatts bank statements or you lose!
You're definitely not demented lmao

>>96334227
I await you to prove that the kickstarters mentioned in those threads didn't exist, you have 5 minutes to do so.

>>96334228
>reddit poster data
fuck off lol

>>96334228
You have sex with small children, never older than nine years old.

Oh, you want evidence? There's a post accusing you of having sex with children. They said, quote, "You have sex with small children, never older than nine years old." That's evidence! Somebody said it, somewhere, one time, therefore it's true!

>>96334238
>nooo not THAT evidence x2
You're sad and predictable, as most loonies are.

>>96334237
you mean the reddit thread that directly linked to the kickstarter and he said he was going to report the phishing link to kickstrater mods or the thread that posts no direct info and is speculatory in nature?

>>96334245
>Anon immediately projects his pedophilia onto others
No surprise, psychopaths like you will say anything.

>>96334247
Your own sources say:
>For the record, I'm not replying to this email, or accepting the offer in any way.
and
>After much discussion with people, I think the very best thing to do would be to try our best, and if it fails, take a month to promote and start another campaign, perhaps at a lower goal.

In other words, neither of those links actually happened.

>>96334253
>that directly linked to the kickstarter
Lmao so there WAS a kickstarter now, concession accepted retard.

>>96334262
prove he accepted the money, hint the user says he did not

>>96334257
Nah, guy said he wanted to do it and was gonna. If you wanna try proving he didn't, go ahead, but you won't because you're a schizophrenic.

>>96334270
https://www.reddit.com/r/kickstarter/comments/2gj7wc/is_it_morally_acceptable_to_fund_your_own/cknc1eh/

Learn to read, dipshit.

>>96334270
>ESL poster still failing to understand whats going on

>96334269
Concession already accepted, too late, you've lost and don't even get a (you) anymore.

>>96334273
>>96334276
>Third worlders unable to read
It's amazing how you broke IMMEDIATELY when evidence was offered. From "You're schizophrenic, post even a shred of evidence" to "no that doesn't count you need a peer reviewed study approved by the ICC or it's fake". So predictable.

>>96334286
Yes, a source saying "what if I did X? I decided not to do X" is not evidence that X happened. For example, if you posted "I'm considering making an intelligent post. No, wait, I changed my mind," that would not be evidence that you made an intelligent post.

The most activity Draw Steel has gotten is arguing over whether the Kickstarter has fake pledges or not.
Yeah this game is already dead kek

>>96334295
>No, evidence is not evidence, how dare you hold me to my own standards?!
Sorry, you weren't as smart as you thought you were and got played kek. The moment you started whining about how evidence doesn't count, you lost.

>>96334296
Exactly 1 minute from >>96334286. Trying to distract from how stupid and dishonest you are? Yes, when you post obviously, farcically stupid shit, people will tell you that you're retarded. You cracked the code.

>>96334303
the evidence you gave us supports our arguments. you're just an idiot.

>>96334303
How does it feel to be both less successful than Matt Colville, and stupider than random 4channers? Must be pretty bad. I understand why you retreat into self-delusion.

>>96333837
Writers in the 1720s, let alone 1820 or 1920s had access to a metric fuck tonne of books of every narrative genre you could imagine.
Kids these days have the same four stories repackaged over and over and over. It doesn't matter if you have 69 different franchises when they're all the same post-ironic heroes journey with a quirky love interest and mascot animal friend.

>tfw the d&d chud fears Draw Steel so much he has to drag the thread into off topic quibbling about alleged Kickstarter fraud on entirely unrelated projects.

Oh yeah. This is the one. WotC is weak, and MCDM is gonna drink their milkshake. Paizo's 15 minutes was only an appetizer. The main course is coming out of the kitchen. Can you smell it?

>>96334391
im a 5e stan but i want draw steel to be successful so it'll draw 4e players away from 5e they can plague that game instead.

>>96334406
>5e stan

>>96334406
Honestly same. And I wish Daggerheart pulls the ruleslite storygamers.

But more than either of those, I want Hasbro to lose ownership of D&D. Run MtG into the ground if you must, it's players have basically consented to it what with UB:FF being their top selling set of all time.
But sell off D&D. I'm sure Gaxx Worx would love to buy it back into the Gygax Family.

>>96334255
Strong words for a known pedophile
see >>96334245
>implying a random post saying stuff isn't evidence

>>96334326
you still don't get it?
They had to go find fiction, we are invaded by it constantly. That's the difference I was making. You decided at some point I said they didn't have access to fiction, I don't know why you'd read it that way or why you're defending that water is wet. That was never the argument.

>>96333660
I really doubt he's sub-90 IQ given he works in finance, has a degree, and is able to run a game even half-decently. Just because he has above-average intelligence doesn't mean he can't be wrong about stuff, and vice versa. There are a lot of things I can't imagine saying his IQ is low unless you're not being completely serious, or you haven't met a lot of people with actual low IQs.

>>96333660
"Cinematic" isn't really a genre of narrative, though. Narrative genres are things like "mystery" or "western." The issue is people who play 5e enjoying drama more than they enjoy making a lot of tactical decisions, especially when those decisions aren't even in-character. The Threefold Model is a good way to understand what's happening here, where he's trying to please gamists and narrativists but the way combat is resolved is heavily tilted toward gamism, and the game is also heavily focused on combat.

>>96334661
it isn't narrativistn at all
Cinematic is supposed to mean you have big bombastic moments where everyone at the table is aying attention to you. It's very evident if you hear him describe it instead of checking other people making up explanations that don't make sense and not questioning that.

Does it succeed? I don't think so, I don't think a system can create those moments. But it's not narrativist at all, nothing in the system is, if someone sees how it works and brings up narrativism they are being either bad faith or dumb,

>>96334593
>you still don't get it?
You're not saying anything of substance.

>>96334645
The inability to understand hyperbole is a sign of undiagnosed autism.

>>96334571
Saddly it's impossible for a monster like Hasbro to sell d&d short of world war 3 or some disaster like that.
Also bugmen will keep eating slop

>>96335094
Saying he's sub-90 IQ isn't hyperbole, because he's not unintelligent at all. He's just an Xer who's married to one type of play and is wrong about stuff sometimes.

>>96335094
Posting about tabletop games on 4chan is a sign of undiagnosed autism. *shrug*

>>96335190
I would consider someone who who brags about being a writer for a multiplayer survival game and states that Halo is the greatest story of all times to be unintelligent

>>96335339
Lol I didn't know he said that about Halo

>>96302213
Ive played probably 20 some sessions across cairn, into the odd, and troika. Playing a handful of converted modules. The high lethality 100% does not discourage combat in my experience. It just mean the players dont care about the characters or game. Players just expect to violently confront everything and expect to roll a 4 characters each 4 hour session.

>>96333303
>https://archive.is/rFEb7
The amount of faggotry in that OP makes San Francisco look like the Deep South.
>I don't mind looking ridiculous, in fact I quite like it. I'm serious about the work, but I'm not serious about myself.
A paragraph later.
>I am acutely conscious of the way our culture prides itself on denigrating women.
Then a bit further down.
>Being aware of this means I am also aware than if nothing else were different, my channel would almost certainly not be a success if I were a woman. Because an overwhelming amount of the feedback I would get would focus on my appearance.
So in short, Matt Colville can look and act like a fool, but don't you dare put focus on it otherwise it reveals how you are a misogynist, because you'd be focusing on it twice as much if he was a woman.
I can follow his train of logic, but he must understand normal people don't think like this, right? Only terminally online influencers do.

>>96334406
>>96334571
Guys. There will be no one left playing 5E if that happens.

>>96335375
not Halo, the backstory the games don't use.
It was his first ARG and it blew his mind.

>>96337694
>everyone who plays 5e is secretly a 4e player who just hasn't moved on yet
doubt

>>96337041
I can totally see that happening, it hasn't been my experience but I run a lot of open games with people with no ttrpg experience or 5e onlys trying to check other stuff. I like funhouse dungeons so having players sitting down to see new and bizarre ways to die doesn't sound bad at all. Much better than the ones sulking when they start combat out of nowhere and die with one hit against a random NPC that was willing to help, which also happened a couple times to me.
It's still a different game experience than long character driven never ending campaigns mostly made of downtime. I feel that people assume that's the meaning of "cinematic" when it's clearly meant as "you get to do big bombastic shit"

>>96337720
It's more the storyfag crowd.

>>96337736
I guess, crit role just spent a decade showing how 5e is the ideal story game and they’ve not even announced they’re playing Daggerheart for their 4th campaign (they probably will play that game)

>>96337679
I can't follow his train of logic at all. It genuinely seems to be a non-sequitur with no way to get from "female creators are criticized for their appearance" to "it's wrong to criticize my appearance."

>>96323257
>your physical media that we sent you is already invalid
>also give us another 10million, suckers

>>96334571
This would be huge for both DnD and MTG. I think Wizards is a pretty decent company, but Hasbro seems so fucking retarded.

So where does DS and DH fall between the spectrum of campfire stories system like Without Numbers and borderline board/wargames?

>>96337943
He's equating them.
>those who make memes of my silly expressions are the same people who would harass women over their appearance
>therefore they are bad people and I am justified in blocking them for making memes about me
In reality he's just a narcissist who doesn't like it when others make fun of him.

>>96334391
>Can you smell it?
I took a whiff at PF2e, Draw Steel, 5e and Daggerheart and all reek of nu-fantasy shit design.

>>96337679
The logic is ridiculous, but there's nothing wrong with banning people who post ugly snapshots of you mid-sentence.

>>96337679
>makes San Francisco look like the Deep South.
You are so naive anon

>>96337679
When is he going to transition?

>>96334571
D&D is one of the only profitable IPs Hasbro owns. The only way it's getting sold is at a bankruptcy liquidation and if that happens it's going to just be Microsoft buying it so they can try (and miserably fail) to get a repeat of BG3. And probably just licensing the tabletop stuff to CGL like the do with Battletech.

>>96339904
If only he didn't intentionally set those bad snapshots as his video thumbnails.
It's like dressing up like a clown in the middle of downtown and giving a self righteous speech why people who call you a clown are morally bad.

>>96295519 (OP)
Watched a couple of videos breaking down the mechanics and looks pretty cool for a final fantasy tactics kind of experience.
I'd pkay it but I probably wouldn't want to participate in a long campaign with it, although I'd be willing to at least give it a try.
~t. anon playing 3.5e in 2025.

Surges.

>Whenever you deal rolled damage, you can spend up to 3 surges to deal extra damage to one creature or object targeted by the ability. Each surge you spend deals extra damage equal to your highest characteristic score.
Is it possible to spend 2 surges on one target and 1 surge on a second target? Is it possible to spend 3 surges on one target and 1 surge on a second target?

>>96300265
>>96307205
I agree with a lot of your points, but you also sound like a massive tool.

>>96339933
>D&D is one of the only profitable IPs Hasbro owns.
Not according to Hasbro. They say D&D isn't worth the investment unless it becomes a subscription service gacha money printer. They've been laying off and forcing resignations of personnel right and left. They were about to mothball it entirely when 5e was first published, the devs thought the 5e 2014 PHB/MM/DMG were likely going to be the system's last books ever printed, Meals talks about it in an interview.
Heck, they were planning to mothball it back in 4e era, but WotC promised them the moon (part of WHY 4e was designed so weird and with do much computer integration focus). And then when that one coder went An Hero++ and left them with unreadable spaghetti they had an excuse. But it's why 5.5 has gone from a business standpoint very similarly to 4e. The OGL revoke. The in-house VTT. It's all reruns, and it's rapidly appearing like the reason the 4e plan wasn't able to deliver the moon was unrelated to Mr trigger happy, it was doomed regardless. Which is why they're downsizing so hard.

5e has maybe a year or two tops to really convince Hasbro it's a worthwhile IP, or they're just going to make WorC the MtG company and only use D&D for toys and branded merchandising.

>>96341566
Are they retarded?
They can keep selling a few books to keep the interest and maintain the IP.
If the books end COMPLETELY the interest is finished.

By the way, they should sue the person that wrote this
https://www.cbr.com/dnd-movie-emasculates-leading-men-not-woke/

That was a perhaps intentional damage of their IP

>>96340360

I think the ambiguity here is that it is either "[spend up to 3 surges to deal extra damage] [to one creature or object targeted by the ability]" or "[spend up to 3 surges] [to deal extra damage to one creature or object targeted by the ability]." The latter would allow a 2/1 or even 1/1/1 split of surges, for example.

>>96341566
>5e has been the most successful d&d product of wotc's and has been strong for a decade
>d&d is the second most profitable product hasbro has (mtg is the first) and literally every Q release has included mention of d&d specifically, even if theyre not talking about product releases like mtg
>they've hired on new management to push the d&d brand further than beyond
>anon thinks they're looking to retire the brand

>>96333303
>https://archive.is/rFEb7
>“Their mother is Athene, the goddess of wisdom, and, although they are often ready to play the buffoon to amuse you, such conduct is the prerogative of the truly wise.” -T. H. White, the Once and Future King
>but don't you dare be amused or I'll block you.
truly the child of Athene he is

>>96330680
what did puffin ever do?