Thread 96331600

A New Hope edition

Previous: >>96292208

A thread for discussing the Star Wars franchise and its various media and tabletop games.

Fantasy Flight Games’ X-Wing, Armada, and Legion
>https://pastebin.com/9puqx1ze

Star Wars Roleplaying Games (d6/d20/FFG)
>https://pastebin.com/iUriRfaA

Other FFG Star Wars tabletop (Imperial Assault, Destiny and the LCG)
>http://pastebin.com/ZE4gn0yN

Old links
>https://pastebin.com/yUVx32wB

X-Wing/Armada/Legion/Shatterpoint:
>https://www.atomicmassgames.com/transmission/update-on-star-wars-x-wing-and-star-wars-armada/
>https://www.atomicmassgames.com/star-wars-legion-documents
>https://www.atomicmassgames.com/star-wars-legion-transmissions
>https://www.atomicmassgames.com/swp-transmissions/
>https://www.atomicmassgames.com/swp-rules/

Latest Edge news:
>https://edge-studio.net/a-new-hope/
>https://edge-studio.net/star-wars-edge/

Unlimited links:
>https://starwarsunlimited.com/articles/
>https://swudb.com/
>https://karabast.net

Thread Question: Got any cool alternate art for the films? Game related, its been GT season. How have you been going?


Previous:

>>96331600 (OP)
Play Legion
Play X-wing
Play Armada
Play Shatterpoint
Play Unlimited
Play SW RPGs

>>96331968
picking up a pile of WEG books and Jedi Prince later today

I wanted to talk about the bad batch with the other anon but the jannies deleted the thread ):

>>96332217
Good. Bad Batch sucked. You know, George said many times that Star Wars is for 12-year-old boys. Bad Batch was definitely for 8-year-old girls. What a colossal waste of time.

>>96332307
nah, it was a good show, I enjoyed it

New Bait Question-

What's something in Star Wars everyone hates, but you like? Bonus points if it's Disney Era.
>>96332217
I was gonna say that I can't imagine anyone hating Bad Batch unless they are doing it for the meme. It's a good show.

My mom even likes it, and she doesn't even like Star Wars OR Animation. Then again, her favorite show is also the Book of Boba Fett.

>>96332658
and picking up from last thread, as I said it wasn't indulgent as it could have make amiga a magical girl or brought tech back, but decided against both
both were also popular fan theories at the time

>>96332658
Your mom seems to have terrible taste that you inherited.

>>96332668
Wait, you mean following up on their own retarded clues from the first two seasons would've been indulgent? Damn, that's crazy. Truly, a great show. Expectations subverted.

>>96332738
>anon would prefer a #ahsokalives fan theory marketing campaign again

>>96332658
>What's something in Star Wars everyone hates, but you like?
Unironically the Pellaeon-class Star Destroyer. I think the wedge shape is cool, I like the almost Venator-esque bridge, and I think the whole thing is a natural progression from the Imperial II.

>Disney Era
The special forces TIE used for Poe and Finn's escape over Jakku. Yes, it's basically just a TIE with a different colorscheme visually, but I like the idea of a two-seat TIE with a rear gun. I cannot conceive of a scenario where it would be the best choice for a mission, it is almost certainly a creation of plot contrivance and in keeping with the First Order's awful "Empire but make it bigger" aesthetic, but it's still neat.

I am also part of the "Starfortress was robbed" club. Don't even think it needs to be converted into a missileboat, just make it faster. or use it for something other than a suicide run against the galaxy's second-lamest xboxheug star destroyer.

>>96332841
the idea of converted civilian starfortresses gets me rock hard because that happens to be my fetish in relation to RL warbirds, but yeah shit was bad

>>96332217
I'm actually just getting around to watching Bad Batch, a little over halfway through the second season.
>>96332307
It feels like it was mandated to be 8-year-old girl friendly by the execs and Filoni tried to buck against that as hard as he could. Like, you get a crime lord that doesn't actually kill any of his enemies when he gets the chance so he can be worthy of being saved by the little girl, but you also get a political conspiracy thriller where a man actively commits suicide on-fucking-screen to prevent being interrogated. It's clear Bad Batch so desperately wants to be more than it's allowed to be.

>>96333036
you give filoni a bit too much credit for it

how do you find the show overall currently? I will say that theres 2 episodes coming up which are probably the worst of the show

>>96333072
I gave him credit because he's the showrunner, so either it's his efforts to make it more than a little kids shows or he's allowing someone else's efforts. Overall, I think it's...fine. Not worth a rewatch, but interesting to see how things were at the very beginning of the Empire. Probably my biggest specific complaint is that the need to be kid-friendly means the Empire have to go full retard far earlier in the timeline than makes sense because otherwise they're not obviously the bad guys.

>>96333036
Omigger killed the show, and its entire purpose being clumsily justifying fucking Rise of Skywalker was a tremendous, colossal mistake. No wonder this show massively flopped, has zero cultural impact, and the bitch who was the head writer on it is no longer at Lucasfilm. It's a deadly combo: show being for 8-year-old girls, head writer is a woman, and it double downs on and tries to justify one of the most despised, embarrassing things in cinematic history: Star Wars sequels.

>>96333157
Point on the doll where the Bad Batch touched you.

>>96332841
The Starfortresses make sense as an incredibly cheap way to BTFO any capital ship. They probably work just fine if you're not as insanely outmatched as the Temu Rebellion was fighting the FO. Especially against the Empire, who tended to have woefully inadequate defenses against smaller ships.

>>96333234
I always understood them as strategic bombers from WW2. Which yeah, die without escorts to defend them. To me it's incredibly obvious, but I'm a historian, and your median voter today thinks jews started WW2.

>>96333269
>I always understood them as strategic bombers from WW2.
Star Wars already had those, but they weren't shitty and useless lumbering junkheaps like the Starfortress
>your median voter today thinks jews started WW2.
I mean... technically, in a serious historical sense, if you look at the mass animosity against Jews due to the failed Jewish Communist revolution in the Weimar Republic, which led to the cultural upswell of hatred that gave the Nazi party the mass support it needed to gain total control over Germany, with essentially a blank check to then do whatever the fuck they wanted with said power, including invading other countries...

>>96333302
>Jews
>Exist
>Germany
>Whelp! No choice but to invade Poland!
You are proving my point about how stupid all of you are.

>>96333234
I mean... not really? sure the costs of the bomber squadron that dies enroute since they have very little protection and are slower the unarmed Ywings the rebellion used. and it's massively worse then the B-wing.

we literally watched on screen even with fighter escort that their flying close to each other strategy like ww2 bombers just left them easily killed in one group attack.

>>96333302
>Star Wars already had those, but they weren't lumbering
Then they weren't fucking strategic bombers.

>>96333215
Right here obviously.
>>96332658
Boba Fett's design in the last episodes of Mando S2. And the whole Dances with the Tuskens thing in BoBF.
>>96331968
I'm trying to rebuild the Legion community where I live but it's harder than I'd like until the Starter sets, conversion packs and objective packs get released.

>>96333375
I think trying to dismiss the actual cultural events that shape a fascist dictatorship and lead to war is a grievous insult to the actual study of history.
>>96333431
>huge fucking bombers that rely on fighter support to survive
have always been in Star Wars. They just weren't slow shitpiles cobbled together out of scrap that needed gravity to drop their bombs. The Starfortress is like someone took an actual WW2 strategic bomber and ported it directly to Star Wars without considering how it should even look or work.

>>96333375
>bad faith reductio ad absurdum argument
No surprise, really, this is 4chan.

>>96333462
>needed gravity
Anon, it says right in the image I posted that the bombs are magnetically accelerated. The Starfortress is basically a railcannon, but its ammunition is proton bombs instead of a big chunk of steel.

>>96333157
>massively flopped
it got 3 seasons
>has zero cultural impact
we're talking about it right now
>and the bitch who was the head writer on it is no longer at lucasfilm
how is this a flaw, she wrote the best episode anyway

holy bad faith batman

>>96333462
>They just weren't slow
THEN THEY AREN'T. FUCKING. STRATEGIC. BOMBERS.

>>96333473
>Anon, it says right in the image I posted that the bombs are magnetically accelerated.
Except that's not how it worked in the movie. The bombs weren't accelerated by anything at all. That guidebook you found it in is clearly just making shit up. Par for the course for cheap Star Wars guidebook slop, honestly.

>>96333480
Notice how he hasn't actually tried to come out and say what these strategic bombers actually are? That's because every bomber we seen on screen is agile enough to dogfight, making them strike craft or fighter bombers. There's nothing else that fits the bill and he knows it.

>>96333480
being slow isn't a requirement for something to be a strategic bomber dumbass. That's like the most retarded thing anyone's said in this thread

>>96333496
Real WW2 strategic bombers were faster and more agile than the Starfortress, you absolute noguns historylet.

>>96333406
The space battle at the start of TLJ is a huge win for the bombers. They trade 8 small corvette sized ships for 1 giant Star Destroyer. If the Discount Rebels were not hilariously outgunned that wohld be a fantastic trade.
And that's the worst-case scenario. In a more even fight, the Republic would have better control over the battlespace to screen for bombing runs.

>>96333476
>it got 3 seasons
The least out of any mainline series, bar Resistance. Which is ironic, given that the bitch who was the head writer of The Bad Batch was a writer on that one, too. Two year gap between S1 and S2 also indicates the troubling production and it is most certainly true that the series was cancelled, given how many fucking plot points it left outright unresolved.
>we're talking about it right now
Cause you can't shut the fuck up about it. Otherwise, it is only ever talked in the context of how bad nothingburger it was. Also, zero real awards. Not one season has been nominated for Emmy or Annies. The only award Bad Batch won is the one that also had Rosario Dawson win as the best actress for Ahsoka, top kek lmao.
>how is this a flaw, she wrote the best episode anyway
Obviously, they did not want to work with her anymore, and I doubt she'd give up the opportunity to write for Star Wars and go back to fucking NCSI willingly. The only good episode of the show was written by Amanda Rose Muñoz.

Do better.

>>96333501
>>96333518
Oh yes, doesn't everyone remember how those Flying Fortresses were ultimate dogfighters who totally not not rely on their fighter escort for protection?

>>96333501
>>96333518
>Still can't name what ships in Star Wars were totally strategic bombers, guise

>>96333551
>he doesn't think the outpost is good
confirmed retarded, but we already knew that filonijew

>>96333501
>being slow isn't a requirement for something to be a strategic bomber
Most strategic bombers were slower than fighters. German tried using fast Tactical bombers like the Junkers Ju 88 in a strategic role, but those weren't strategic bombers like the B-17 Flying Fortress, which is what the StarFortress was obviously meant to represent.

>>96333571
Outpost sucked. Nolan was a shit character, and the entire conflict was forced, because the entire premise of "Imperial clone hatred" and "retirement" is forced, retarded nonsense that was never properly justified even within the show itself. Music was good, though, and Mayday had a pretty cool design, I admit.
>le filonijew
Take your pills. Filoni sucks cocks, and his shitty Bad Batch show sucked. Rebels sucked. Ahsoka sucked. All of it has been terrible, and you're a shill. Go back to plebbit or something.

>>96333434
I liked everything with the tuskens. The only issue is the show ostensibly wasn't about them.
>>96333551
Resistance is good. Prove me wrong.

>>96333663
he's arguing in bad faith as he always does

>>96333595
Yes they are slower then fighters this makes sense. What doesnt is that this is slower then a hammerhead corvette a full ass warship that could outspeed and manuvere this bomber.

Like at this point just use a warship its probably more effective then them at ship to ship engagement. These very specifically were designed to hit besieged imperial bases on planets. They werent designed to hit these ships and it shows as they were torn apart and only dropped the bombs due to pure luck. 8 corvettes and 40 trained crew with 35 dead before they even contribute to the battlespace.

>>96333729
>Yes they are slower
Which is why the fighter-bombers we've seen on screen so far aren't strategic bombers. Thanks for conceding the point, at least, first time I've seen you admit to being wrong.
> What doesnt is that this is slower then a hammerhead corvette a full ass warship
It's literally a point of pride for Han in ANH that his light freighter can outrun Imperial capital ships. His light freighter that can dogfight, by the way. Try again.

>>96333839
Idk, most of their Empire designs are pretty cool
>TIE Strikers
>Death Troopers
>Shore Troopers
>Purge troopers

>>96333839
Most if not all of Rogue 1 was kino (including Kino himself). Andor followed up with more kino, albeit with some shit pacing and some less than subtle messaging in the second season. Mandalorian season 1 was one of the best representations of the life of a fringe spacer we've ever seen and I am still mad that Grogu became a fucking cancer that consumed the entire premise.

Most if not all of Rogue 1 was kino. Andor followed up with more kino (including Kino himself), albeit with some shit pacing and some less than subtle messaging in the second season. Mandalorian season 1 was one of the best representations of the life of a fringe spacer we've ever seen and I am still mad that Grogu became a fucking cancer that consumed the entire premise.

>>96333908
I'm of the opinion that subtlety is for the weak.

Say what you fucking believe and say it loud.

>>96333939
>I'm of the opinion that subtlety is for the weak.
Then you're a fucking moron.

>>96333853
>>TIE Strikers
Yet another needless, pointless TIE sloppa. We've had dozens of those. Completely unnecessary, desu.
>>Death Troopers
Too overdesigned. Their look is just way too busy. Just too much shit.
>>Shore Troopers
Also completely pointless and not all that memorable.
>>Purge troopers
They're just airborne clone troopers painted black.

>>96333908
Nah. None of those things are wholly good.

>>96333993
Idk, anon, having a designated atmospheric fighter seems fairly practical

>>96333966
Great use of subtlety there friend.
>>96333993
No, the Sith Troopere are over designed. We need to scrap on them more.

Also you have no soul if the One Way Out speech didnt do it for you.

>>96334080
It didn't do anything for me precisely because I have soul, and I was able to recognize that I am being emotionally manipulated by goyslop media, and all those speeches were nothing but tryhard, overwrought nonsense, that spend a lot of time saying very little, and every character having a lengthy, forced speech up their ass is fucking cringe.

Deathtroopers are as over designed as Sith Troopers, they're just black instead of red, and on top of that they have a bunch of embarrassing tacticool crap clumsily slapped on top of them. All these fucking useless edges/ridges that are just fucking spammed all over this armor, all these useless fucking pouches and belts. Just so busy and overdesigned. Look at the stormtrooper/clone designs, look how elegant and slick they are. And compare them to this ugly shit.

>>96333825
Yeah I wasnt arguing there were other strategic bombers. I'm a different guy.

I will argue thst it should still be much faster then portrayed due to the fact that a ship 3.5 times its size is easily able to out manuvere and out speed it by a large margine (the hammerhead corvette). If they were faster than they were, not X-wing or A wing speeds but faster then portrayed where they took multiple minutes of flying, when already in the target zone to get get to the ship or had more turrets for defense it would make more sense. Hell you could have made it. Bigger U wing with the main area in the middle set up to drop bombs and it would have been better. Its very obvious that these were made to hit stationary targets on planets not ships.

>>96334080
>Great use of subtlety there friend.
You're mistaken: I was being overt. You see, thinking subtlety has its uses is not synonymous with thinking you have to be subtle 100% of the time! Hope this helps. Still, thank you for the ttempt at a compliment, I can tell you really meant it and weren't being subtle because you're not weak, right?

>>96334149
>Yeah I wasnt arguing there were other strategic bombers. I'm a different guy.
Then I don't give a shit, because that's who I was responding to. Not to mention that an argument that any ship in SW should be faster or slower based on size makes no fucking sense at all when you consider that light freighters are apparently catchable by cruisers.

>>96334212
Reminder that the Millenium falcon is also heavily modified out the ass to the point it's falling apart every other shot.

>>96334141
So your critique is that you can't enjoy something unless its suitably racist for you.

And you decide to watch Star Wars.
>>96334198
I preferred getting called a moron. It was direct, to the point, and wasn't you sucking off your own dick.

What's the coziest ship for a space NEET?Something you can fly on a budget while shitposting on the HoloNet

>>96334141
> on top of that they have a bunch of embarrassing tacticool crap clumsily slapped on top of them. A
Rogue One and Andor are soulless trash that grabs a bunch of real life shit
>not kabul
>not kalashnikov
>not industrial britain
>not 80s european far left terrorists
then slaps "star wars" on it

>>96335310
As opposed to...?

>>96335414
Exactly. At least other creators *try* to keep in mind this is supposed to be an alien society.

>>96333993
>Completely unnecessary, desu.
Yes Sienar, I already know the company motto.

>>96332307
>Bad Batch was definitely for 8-year-old girls.
For real? I could have sworn it was for 30 years old dads.

>>96333632
>Rebels sucked.
Maul's death was kino tho'
The sith pyramid was also kino. yes it was, despite the helocopter sabers.

>>96335566
I find the helicopter sabers to epitomize how shittily trained the inquisitors are that they require a machine to do what most jedi could do with their force jumps and such.

>>96335674
auramaxxing has its downsides

>>96335674
This never made sense, given that the Inquisitors are former Jedi themselves. A lot of them are Jedi Knights even, a lot of them are quite capable in their abilities. So it's reasonable to assume that they can do basic shit like deflecting the blasters and spinning their sabers normally. Spin bullshit made sense for Grievous, because he was a pleb in a robot suit. Inquisitors doing it is pretty dumb.

>>96335856
Jedi Knights are on average in their 20's right? Rebels is pretty close to New Hope, so that would make a rookie Jedi Knight in their fourties. The Inquisitors instead struck me as mid-20's, maybe 30's, so more likely younglings and padawans.

Plus- while I don't think it was stated in Rebels, I think since then they've stated the Inquisition also recruited up force-sensitives that they were able to scrounge up in the meantime.

>>96335856
the bigger problem was many of them were also having to fully change to a style of fighting they were not proficient in. most jedi practice more defensive styles comparitivly to the more agressive forms the sith use.

that and nothing is saying these former jedi weren't shit before ethier. ontop of not all being former jedi.

>>96335879
This is why I like what they've done with their sabers since- which is that they just don't use them like in Rebels. You just activate one end and you use it like a normal lightsaber. This helps give the Inquisitors more personality, and also gives them something they can work up towards. Jedi Fallen Order and Survivor handled this much better than Rebels.

In this way, the Inquisitor Saver makes more sense as something like a swiss-army lightsaber designed by committee so they can produce them en-masse and have them work for everyone, than spend the effort of making them individualized for each one like the Jedi.

how many people do you think Saw Gurrera pushed to join the empire with his tactics on how to fight the empire?

7 kits from completing my dream X-Wing 1.0 collection, 5 of which are seconds of sets I already have. Just need a Decimator and Lambda, and the rest can be picked up in dribs and drabs.

>>96338036
Post pics, anon-kun
Getting a Lambda may be problematic though

>>96338103
I have the cardboard, I just need to source a model of it. That shouldn't be too hard, just going to be rough to swallow the 150 or so dollaridoos it will cost.
No pics on this computer unfortunately, but should be having some games with my brother in law in the next week or two, will try to contribute when I do. If you were curious (you probably aren't, but might as well close a loose thread) the other 5 kits will be second copies of Rebel Aces and E-Wing for Rebels and Firespray, Defender and Phantom for Imps. Rebel Aces is still pretty available but the rest will be annoying, they can be picked up over time though as I already have a first set of each.

>>96338103
noice

>>96334141
Disney Imperial troopers are all so tacticool and full of weird edges that don't conform to actual Imperial suit designs. Don't get me wrong, I love having different troop armors because I just like seeing more than Stormies and Scouts, but they just look bad. EU had some suits that were just Stormies painted another color but others were great and fit in the movies quite well.

Also don't get me started on Disney using fucking concept art for everything. Concept art does NOT look like Star Wars, it's embarrassing AND makes them look lazy as fuck

>>96334056
TIEs are already atmospheric. The Striker is a weird one because it works like a literal strike fighter (it can bomb things on the ground) but we've had better designs for them

I think if it was just some experimental design seen in Rogue One that maybe led to the x1 or the Oppressor if you're a Legends fan, I'd be fine with it. But nowadays it's EVERYWHERE like the fucking ugly Reaper

>>96335856
Grievous spinning is actually a pretty good technique though, and Grievous was trained by Dooku who was one of the leading saberfighting experts in the Order. It's different from how the retarded Inquisitors act

Though tbf I hate Inquisitors as a concept and wish they didn't exist

>>96332658
>NBQ
I figured the Resurgent would be a late post-endor warlord's version of an SSD, which kind of works.
as an replacement for the ISD it's utter dogshit

I kind of feel sorry for the guy. He was the best part of the show, had likely a good story planned for his character and then lost it all because of the women that run and ruined the show.

>>96340239
I blame the hate campaign against it more than anything, completely overblown and in bad faith

>>96340394
It's the nature of anything now in modern discourse. Things that are very average are over exaggerated to be fucking terrible.

>>96340394
>hate campaign
>not believing that the new Disney Wars would be good due to their (ongoing) track record showing a pattern of low quality and applying basic pattern recognition = bad faith
lol shut the hell up

>>96340579
the previous live action show to the acolyte was ahsoka, which had retcons galore like sabine being force sensitive
people found it stupid, but there wasnt some mass outcry that dave filoni has ruined star wars forever and doesnt understand a damn thing about it

now we cut to the acolyte, where bad faith actors who were always going to hate it (e.g nerdrotic) are nitpicking minor details like fire in space or ki-adi-mundis birthday and making a bigger deal out of those than the previous example which is way worse and actually has an impact on the story

>>96340579
This.

>>96340605
and make no mistake, I am not saying that the acolyte is good or has no flaws

just that it was not given a fair chance because those bad faith actors hold the same opinions as the average 4channer, but unlike the average 4channer, are scared of being deplatformed if they actually speak what they actually hate first and foremost (i.e I dont like lesbians, black people and women) so they find nitpicks instead

the average 4channer will just say "I hate it because it has lesbians, black people and women"

Why is it that everybody who defends Disney Wars in any way here talks like a tourist?
Every time.

>>96340649
You're all tourists. Shut the fuck up and fuck off back to /tv/ or discuss tabletop games.

>>96340658
I talk about board games plenty.
Get off your high fence, centrist double faggot.

>acolyte shows lightsaber crystal bleeding
>while not perfect (jedi survivor and vader comics depict it way better) it gets the basic notes down and specifically shows a shot of the crystal in her hand that allows this to happen
>lightsaber crystal bleeding is arguably not even obscure lore at this point, a quick google search of "why are lightsabers red?" will tell you
>HURR HOW SHE DO THAT THATS NOT A THING THIS IS STUPID
>(gets told about crystal bleeding)
>BUT THEN WHY DIDNT ANAKINS TURN RED IN REVENGE OF THE SITH, THE WRITERS CLEARLY DON'T KNOW THEIR LORE

>>96340691
It's okay, they get butthurt about /tv/ because they know they get bullied by actual Star Wars fans for liking Disney whenever they go there, which is why they have to hide away here.

>>96340605
>>96340626
>people found it stupid, but there wasnt some mass outcry that dave filoni has ruined star wars forever and doesnt understand a damn thing about it
Retard. Ahsoka didn't have that effect because Mando S3, Book of Boba and the other Disney+ shit which Filoni had had a hand in (which was basically all the TV shows) already tanked his reputation. TCW started to be seen as a garbage show and inferior to the MMP by tons of people, including a large chunk of the normiefags. The meme of "Filoni will save le SW!1!", which was spouted everywhere after the ST, completely vanished. Less people watched Ahsoka than Acolyte because more people are interested in Old Republic shit even from Disney than post-Endor with Filoni's OCs and castrated Thrawn.

>now we cut to the acolyte, where bad faith actors who were always going to hate it are nitpicking minor details
You are a total fucking moron. Even the small details matter, they always do. But critiques of Acolyte often HAVE focused on the big retarded plot points like space witches, "DA POWER OF MAANY", and such

>just that it was not given a fair chance because those bad faith actors hold the same opinions as the average 4channer
This is stupid. Nerdrotic and the EFAP crew are not based in the slightest, they aren't 4chanfags. You seem like a little liberal fag bitching that muh fans hated it cuz WOOMAN

>>96340827
>This is stupid. Nerdrotic and the EFAP crew are not based in the slightest, they aren't 4chanfags
yes, this is exactly what i'm saying

they're little weasels who'll hate a thing automatically due to racism/sexism/homophobia or whatever and lie out their ass about why they hate it
they'll never truly give the reason why, because they're scared of a big corporation coming down and deplatforming them for those views
so they'll make shit up to give more reasons to hate and grift, it's their entire thing. they never argue in good faith and just keep on lying and being disingenuous

at least a 4chanfag will be honest with me and will flat out tell me "I hate this show because i'm a racist" while he posts another DEY HERE thread on /tv/
that's what seperates the two, at least I can have a laugh with the 4chanfag

>>96340878
and you KNOW shits fucked if /tv/ of all places actually DISCUSSES things
reddit will just shill for it and everywhere else is just a circlejerk of youtubers opinions

>>96340878
So you ARE a troon basically bitching about MUH FANNS HATE NU-SW CAUSE THEY'RE RAYCYST. Actually kys asap please

>they're little weasels who'll hate a thing automatically due to racism/sexism/homophobia
Biggest retard of the planet. These people have accepted women protags, black protags and whatnot in the past. They're the ones who hate them for being badly written. 4channers hate them because they're badly written and because we KNOW that they're political brainwashing to destroy the franchise we love with leftist bullshit. But of course troons like you can't comprehend either of those. If you did you wouldn't be using those terms in the first place kek

>they'll make shit up to give more reasons to hate and grift
Aha, anyone who disagrees with Disney is a grifter. You are either a bought shill or a total slop consoomer, either way you're fucking pathetic

What you should admit is that you have such bad taste that you liked Acolyte and can't take being clearly shat on for liking this kind of shit so you need to try and act like everyone else is irrational and you're the rational one

>>96340394
>>96340414
I hate modern Star Wars discourse. It'd be one thing if it was just done by Star Wars nerds being autists, but it's so clearly platformed by people trying to push a political narrative that the 'wokeists' are trying to destroy straight white culture.
>>96340626
It's insane how authentic opinions are treated on the right. You say one thing contrary to the narrative you become a class traitor.
>>96340697
I don't mind the lore explanation, even if I think it's dumb, what bothered me was the execution of it.

Like, if it was a conscience decision to do it that she did in preperation for a fight scene, that would make sense. It happening the MOMENT she swaps sides is idiotic.

My favorite thing about lightsaber colors is that they are just uniform colors. Using a red lightsaber doesn't make you bad, and using a blue one doesn't make you good. When Anakin turns evil, he continues to use his blue lightsaber to kill children, because GUESS WHAT - THE UNIFORM YOU WEAR DOESN'T MAKE YOU GOOD OR EVIL.

Like when Indianna Jones puts on a Nazi uniform to go undercover, he doesn't become a Nazi. Just like how if a Nazi is an American uniform he suddenly espouses freedom and liberty and monster trucks. The world is more complex than that, and visual indicators don't always succeed in telling you who is good or not.

They did the same thing in Rise of Skywalker and it pisses me off. Kylo Ren swaps to the good side, and throws away his perfectly good red lightsaber- which then forces the story to justify Rey having a second lightsaber she could hand to him just in that scene.

Because apparantly audiences are too stupid to know if a character is good or bad unless they have the right colored lightsaber.

And you know what? If they are too stupid to understand? GOOD. Lets go back to the prequels where the message just flies over the heads of all the smoothbrains.

>>96340878
There doesn't even need to be black people in the thing. It's an article of faith that Disney is controlled by the wokeists and destroying white culture. Ergo- you will invent reasons to not like something to further the NARRATIVE.

Andor is a great example of this. There was no blowback on Andor S1. Because nobody had ANY faith in it. Nor should they have- I didn't. I mean- I thought I'd like it, not that it'd blow my socks off. It was a prequel to a prequel that was a spinoff in the sequels era.

But because nobody was expecting anything, I think the quality of Andor took the outrage farmers off guard, and they couldn't rally in time before its solid reputation was secured, and critiquing it would have made them look like idiots.

You can tell though they were waiting to jump for S2, and settled on the 'I can't believe the evil fascist bad guys, would do evil things like sexual assault'. Thankfully I think this failed, and the thing fizzled out.
>>96340878
Nobody wants to argue for what they believe. Because they don't believe in things. They don't want to actually have to stand and defend their opinions, they want to get in a circlejerk.

And if you aren't willing to take shit for the things you believe in, then it means that you don't truly believe in it.

>>96340915
Which black protagonists do you think were badly written?

Since you seem to care so much about the subject.

>>96340969
I mean Finn and Reeeva are all atrociously written

But I doubt you care about that, you are clearly sucking Disney's cock and acting like the fans are just having some grift campaign because you can't stand the notion that even the normies have gotten tired as fuck of Disney Star Wars and that it killed the franchise, and it wasn't even due to your beloved RAYYCYSM or SXISM. Just Disney being incapable of writing

>>96340959
>There was no blowback on Andor
There was, you just didn't hear it because so little people actually care about Andor. But plenty of people rightfully complained it was generic shit grimdark with a half-baked Star Wars skin over it, that it didn't feel Star Wars.

>You can tell though they were waiting to jump for S2
You are laughably pathetic. It is indeed right for people to criticize the villains being OOC. And you are clearly playing the victim acting like poor Disney is under attack by muh ebil RIGHT WING NARRATIVE. When in reality it's the opposite

>Thankfully I think this failed, and the thing fizzled out
Aha. That's why Andor revived Star Wars, right? Star Wars is back on cinemas with all the people who watched the OT and PT back in their seats! Clearly this isn't Disney parading a corpse around!

>>96340915
being as disingenuous as those youtubers
you're probably one of them

>>96341008
nobody is attempting to dismiss any criticism of the show as "the grift!!!" though, you're making strawman arguments

>>96340414
To be fair, Ubishit has been making this exact game, bugs and all, for over a decade now. Outlaws was in just as much of a pickle because of who developed it as it was for any artistic decisions made with it.

>>96341097
You are dismissing actual criticism of the shows as the grift lmao. Apparently only specific criticisms of the show are allowed, otherwise they're grifts made by le raycyst chuds o algo

>>96341008
Finn true.

Reeva I think people are just blowing smoke.

>But I doubt you care about that,
So you were just bullshitting everyone then.
>>96341047
All I remember people on this thread complaining about Andor S1 on this thread were a lack of aliens.
>>96341110
Anyone else hyped for the Clone Wars XCOM spy game coming out? I'm hyped.

Also did that David Cage star wars game get cancelled? I haven't heard zip about it.

>>96341299
>Reeva I think people are just blowing smoke
You serious? Undoubtedly the worst character in the trainwreck that is Kenobi, a massive piece of shit Mary Sue that nobody likes and even more shamefully a copy of the Second Sister from Fallen Order? Kek. Also I wasn't bullshitting

>All I remember people on this thread complaining about Andor S1 on this thread were a lack of aliens
People don't just complain about Star Wars on /swg/ believe it or not

>>96341299
I'm hype though I feel they could have been a bit more interesting with the displayed characters. I'm wondering how they are going to justify a Mando and Umbaran joining the republic forces unless this group is all traitors of the republic? I haven't payed too much attention.

>>96341293
no, I am dismissing shit like fire in space and ki-adi-mundi's birthday, can you read?

>>96341299
>Clone Wars XCOM game
Not really my bag, but I hope it does alright.

>David Cage game
No idea what's happened to this. I expect it to suck, because Cage is a no-talent hack, but the choice of era means we may get cool planets and lore.

>>96341385
You dismiss whole reviews by these YouTubers based on them pointing out these flaws alongside the massive, obvious flaws the series has. You then assume they're all grifters who are secretly conservative or whatever

>>96341590
>make shitty arguments
>expect people to listen to valid points that may or may not be there

or I could ask an anon like >>96340917 and he gives a fair example as to why he doesnt like a certain thing, he understands the lore and can explain why something is bad

besides, i've watched the show, why would I need to listen to some youtubers review? I can form my own opinions

>>96341635
Dude stop samefagging. We all know you're the exact same anons

Also a lot of us saw the show and saw the issues in it. And those guys just repeated what we obviously got from the shit writing in Acolyte.

>>96341675
uh huh, sure

>>96340394
The "hate" campaign was an objective assessment of genuinely one of the shittiest pieces of media ever produced, and you are either a woman(male), a retard, or gay for weird-lookin' asian dudes because literally nobody else genuinely liked ACKolyte.

Alright guys, whats a character you have had in mind for a while to play in a star wars ttrpg, but just never had the game for it?

Chancellor Valorum, is dead, gentleman.

>>96341885
nobody is saying they liked the acolyte

defending it against specifically unfair criticism=/=liking it

>>96341366
You are using Mary-Sue wrong.

And I don't see anything wrong with her. Uninspired maybe. But this is Star Wars we're talking about.

>People don't just complain about Star Wars on /swg/ believe it or not
I guess you didn't read any of the 'on this thread' part of the post.
>>96341374
Mando mercenary after the Mando civil-war easy. Umbaran probably would be a guy properly jumping the fence though.
>>96341489
I expect it to suck too. But in an entertaining trainwreck way. The period also interests me.
>>96341635
I like arguing. And I seem to be alone in this.

I want to actually talk about what I think about something. I want to debate the merits of the thing.

Instead, people want to be treated as right without any of the work. So they reference something that in their circles is taken as a given, without any sort of argument behind it, and act confused when you ask someone to substantiate their claims.
>Kenobi is bad!
Why?
>It has a black woman in it!
Okay, but why is that a bad thing?
>Oh jesus, it's one of the wokesters again!

I understand people not liking it cause they think it's underwhelming. I liked it because I got to see parts of star wars that I liked, and I didn't find anything in it really dumb (like I mentioned with the crystal bleeding scene in Acolyte). I genuinely haven't heard anyone offer a substantive reason why Kenobi was written badly, they just insist that it is, and that's what grates me.
>>96341885
Show me on the doll where Acolyte touched you.

>>96342266
I mean I'd give it a 5/10.

I liked the idea of the Force Witches- but I think that they fumbled the ball by not expanding the lore with them. Having them be an offshoot of Dathomiri witches is fine, but there's much more you could have done there. Give them their own history, maybe one that overlaps with the Dathomiri witches, but so that we could feasibly see more of them in other stuff.

I liked a Wookie Jedi. No reason to complain about that.

Main Jedi was very well acted, and gave a compelling performance.

I thought the Jedi Conspiracy was a cool angle.

I thought the handling of the Sith as a terrifying boogeyman was great. I also thought the helmet that short-circuits lightsabers was great, and a very logical thing for a Sith to have.

I liked the guy who put himself in a force-coma, that's a cool idea, and I loved the hook that he was super willing to commit suicide in exchange for the girls forgiveness- that was a great hook.

I do think the twins angle was pretty pointless. It felt to me kind of there to be there to have a sort of poetic angle around the force so it feels more mystic. But I think the emphasis of familial ties with the force is kind of a misreading of the whole point of it.

Worst part is turning the lighsaber red like I said.

I'd watch a season 2. Don't care too much about the plot, but I'd like to see more of that era of Star Wars. And if that's not a good enough reason for you, then go fuck yourself.

>>96342282
>But in an entertaining trainwreck way
I guess we can look forward to that, since Cage has delivered such before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INBT_KR8SvQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMCmZ0RQuLU

>>96342282
>I genuinely haven't heard anyone offer a substantive reason why Kenobi was written badly
You are the biggest liar on this planet. Literally EVERY Kenobi review goes into why it sucks balls. Little Leia outrunning the bad guys like a cartoon? The fucking coat scene? Kenobi's arc ruining his OT arc? Leia being more relevant than Luke despite ANH making it clear that Obi-Wan and Leia never met? Kenobi winning against Vader five years before the ANH fight (ruining their dialogue a la TCW) purely because of "power of friendship" bullshit? Qui-Gon being a full ghost for some reason? Are you fucking kidding me? Every single scene in Kenobi is a disgrace

>You are using Mary-Sue wrong
No I am not. She's stronger than anybody else, survives Vader stabbing her, appears in front of Luke and fights Obi-Wan, she's a survivor of Order 66 who got into the Inquisitorium only to kill Vader as revenge (despite how retarded that sounds)... Reeeeeeva is the definition of a self insert Mary Sue and not seeing it is just stupid

I think we should get kenobi season 2 only so we have can have pic related

How come the battle of muunilinst was considered to be a event of heavy casualties for the Republic?

>>96340649
Because corporate cumslurping is antithetical to the nature of 4chan, and because those same shills also have no discernible sense of taste and therefore they can't understand why their disingenuous attempts at defending slop never succeed.

Hey anyone mind helping me build a charcter for a WED6 game of star wars? Trying to build up a storm commando like character (I know I can't be that cool to start but want to build up to it.) and having no experience building a character in this I feel a bit lost.

>>96342349
>Little Leia outrunning the bad guys like a cartoon? The fucking coat scene?
Eh.
>Kenobi's arc ruining his OT arc?
It's dumb, but nothings ruined. I'm more bothered by changing the context of the 'I have not felt a presence like this...' part.
>Leia being more relevant than Luke despite ANH making it clear that Obi-Wan and Leia never met?
Far as I can tell it's not clear, and using Leia makes way more sense than Luke, since Luke clearly isn't allowed to know that Obi-Wan is a Jedi until a New Hope.
>Kenobi winning against Vader five years before the ANH fight (ruining their dialogue a la TCW) purely because of "power of friendship" bullshit?
Don't care, cool fight.
>Qui-Gon being a full ghost for some reason?
You didn't watch Revenge of the Sith, fake fan.

>No I am not.
She lost to Vader, and failed to accomplish any of her goals. The Grand Inquisitor also got stabbed, but he's a white guy so I see why that didn't bother you.
>she's a survivor of Order 66 who got into the Inquisitorium only to kill Vader as revenge (despite how retarded that sounds)
It's more weird that more Inquisitors didn't try to kill the guy who destroyed the Jedi Order if most of them are meant to be former Jedi.

I felt that angle was weird because it implies the Dark Side is about mind-control, and not enabling your worst impulses.

When KOTOR II became more rated than KOTOR I lol, what a overrated piece of shit, I hate Chris Avellone

>>96340394
>the hate campaign
If Disney hadn't made a badly written show, then insulted all fans as racist bigoted misogynists, followed by the two or so lead actresses doubling down on the insults with a constant background of the lead writers and directors tweeting the same baseless insults. ..well, then the show would still have been pointless because nobody gave a fuck about that horriblly mismanaged era.

Theree was some potential there, and some interesting characters and good, motivated actors. Sadly, the bad writing, bad actors and plethora of idiotic decisions (episode length, bad composition, nepotism, etc. etc.) doomed it.

>>96343404
Had no idea Terence Stamp was Valorum.

>>96343891
Nah, Andor was peak and they tried the same thing, it just didn't stick.

>>96335566
Wow the only two parts of the show were any good. 3 episodes out of what nearly a hundred?

>>96333939
You must be a fan of anime

>>96343904
That only seems to reinforce his point, no? Good show overcomes a bad-faith effort to tank it, bad show gets crushed.

>>96342456
Guess they had a lot of casualties

>>96343904
Acolyte didn't need a hate campaign to tank, it was just bad.
Screeching about racism, insulting the fans and all the other bad decisions just made it sink even faster.

Andor was good. The usual grifters tried their thing, but baselessly flinging shit at it because 'muh Didney, muh not reallstarwars, The MMMessagee, it is le woke' just didn't stick because, well, it was baseless.
The cast and directors didn't insult the fans, everyone goes home happy after a few hours of good entertainment.

Wow, all it takes is good writing, good directing, good music and a motivated cast.


I could go on about the utterly hyprcritical bulllshit both sides of the internet culture war regullarly pull to either attack or defend whatever the current thing is, but why bother.
All I wanted was waifus and starfighters but we can't have nice things.

>>96343905
everything involving pic was good
grinkie was great
vader's first appearance and people FEELING the sheer terror from his presence alone was great

the good:dud ratio was actually higher than TCW for the simple fact the studio had more experience scripwriting.

It was different. It was lower budget. It had weird decisions (muh force wolves, muh time travel). But over all the quality as a stand alone animation was above the bar.

>>96344020
>Acolyte didn't need a hate campaign to tank, it was just bad.
It wasn't bad. One cringe song in one EP doesn't ruin a series. The teen romance was so quintessential it was impossible to fail.

Marketing and some people involved where certified retards that prompted a hatefandom reaction.

Mark my words because I've seen this shit happen before in other franchise: The series will redeem itself in 10 years.

>>96344185
Wrong board /co/umblr

>>96344200
>It wasn't bad.
Stop being dellusional.
Bad dialogue, idiotic plot holes, bad storytelling, characters being idiots to cover up plotholes, episodes too short yet still full of pointlless filler, and that is just off the top of my head.

The writing was awful, worse storytelling than most TTRPG campaigns, characters act in ways that would get called out by players around a gaming table as nonsensical bullshit, nevermind any comparison to how people might act in real life.

With good scriptwriting, good directing and adequate project management, it might have been good. But what we actually got was complete shit.

>The series will redeem itself in 10 years.
No. There were a few good scenes, those will age well. The rest will remain memoryholed or be brought up as memery just like the more terrible parts of the EU.

>>96344294
I'll leave when eutroon and filonijew stop crashing my star wars threads.

>>96344299
>plotholes
>characters being idiots
Chrriiist don't tell me you got filtered by a fucking teen romance with side scoop of tragedy not saying what they feel on screen.

>>96344299
>plotholes
>characters being idiots
Chrriiist don't tell me you got filtered by a fucking teen romance with side scoop of tragedy because characters don't say what they feel on screen.

>>96344345
You're not even trying to argue, so you DO know I'm right.
If it was meant to be a romance, they failed to include romance.
if it was meant to be tragic, it was ruined by everyone acting like a piece of wood or the character being written as acting completely randomly from scene to scene.

>>96343926
Little anon.

>>96344200
>THE NEXT GENERATION WILL PRAISE IT
of course, of course. By the way I hope you're dusting off your merch for TFA's big 10, it's coming right around the corner

>>96344397
that one I doubt
My point is "once it's people removed from the original context who won't gives a shit what the director said that one time 10+ years ago, the series will be judged without bias"

I predict will be firmly below Andor and Mando S1+S2 is total quality ratings.

>>96344383
>they failed to include romance.
literally the final EP.

>it was ruined by everyone acting like a piece of wood
I think people who says this are just new to TV series and don't know how low the bar fir "acceptable quality" actually means for the TV medium.
On strict technical terms, almost all live TV Disney output is high quality, Go watch the big sci tv shows of the 90s and 00s if you don't believe me. Gets to to the point many argued the shows are a money sink and Acolyte was what sort of broke the camel's back.
TV will *never* be cinema. Don't expect that level of quality.

Even then, half the characters were meant to be wood going full retard because muh jedi emotions. I have no idea if you mean "the bald chick was stiff" or "the chink MC whose entire character was about being too indecisive, was too indecisive"

>>96344397
LMAO, they will try to memoryhole that
the ST has aged like sour milk

>>96344449
>On strict technical terms
Nobody's complaining about the effects or cinematography.
>half the characters were meant to be wood going full retard because muh jedi emotions
"It's bad on purpose" is certainly an argument.

>>96344477
>Nobody's complaining about the effects or cinematography.
It also applies to acting. It's fucking TV, stop expecting pears out of oranges.

>>96342266
Shillmayto shillmahto. It deserves every erg of hate it gets, there *are* no unfair criticisms of a pile of dogshit that bad.

>>96344520
>just lower your standards
I think we're done here.

>>96341299
>Anyone else hyped for the Clone Wars XCOM spy game coming out? I'm hyped.
Yeah I'm cautiously optimistic but I also like that you can customise the main character to be an alien. The last game that let you play as an alien was SWTOR 15 years ago. That along with customisable astromechs, ship, base etc makes me want it to be good.

>>96342698
>Eh
So you're A-OK with these fucking retarded scenes. Shows the level of quality you like
>It's dumb, but nothings ruined
EVERYTHING is ruined. Obi-Wan is supposed to be a wise Jedi and mentor by ANH, but just five years prior he was a complete depressed mess who had cut himself off from the Force? You fuckin serious? And yes it retcons so much of ANH it isn't funny
>Far as I can tell it's not clear, and using Leia makes way more sense than Luke, since Luke clearly isn't allowed to know that Obi-Wan is a Jedi until a New Hope
It IS clear. Leia treats Obi-Wan as some random knight that was working with her father during the Clone Wars. "Bu- bu- but she was faking it despite it being a personal message!" actually stfu. Leia doesn't cry when Obi-Wan dies in the Death Star, it's Luke who does. Leia doesn't know Obi-Wan in ANH. Using Luke would have been dumb but better because he's the HERO of the OT, instead we get Leia because of poliical bullshit (Disney has said they want to remake the OT but with Leia as the heroine ffs)
>Don't care, cool fight
Consoooome and don't ask questions then. It was an awful retarded fight that made Vader look like a total fucking wimp who takes it in the ass. It ruins their arc in ANH, the "When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master". You remind me of Filonifag and how he ignored TCW ruining this kind of stuff because he likes Grievous being some generic cartoon villain
>You didn't watch Revenge of the Sith, fake fan
This is either bait or you are the biggest retard worldwide. Qui-Gon isn't a full ghost, he never completed his training even though he discovered it which meant he could talk to people but not be a visible entity. This is ESTABLISHED lore even in Disney which the series ignores

>>96342698
>She lost to Vader, and failed to accomplish any of her goals
Oh, so that's what qualifies a Mary Sue now? Winning to Vader? Because she didn't but she very clearly managed to survive so much shit and pull so much crap out her ass it's insane. As for the Grand Inquisitor, that guy is a complete loser in both here and especially Rebels, he's a worse Maul.
>It's more weird that more Inquisitors didn't try to kill the guy who destroyed the Jedi Order
They succumbed to the Dark Side, which is about personal desires and impulses, not about others. Reeeva somehow manages to overcome this and secretly cares about her old Jedi pals (even though she murders a fuck ton of people and does way more damage in her "revenge"). Only very powerful Sith like Vader are able to really fully hold care for others and not just succumb to the Dark Side. And even then he barely tried until Luke turned him back to the light

You are so desperate it isn't funny. You can like a piece of shit series but just admit that nothing Disney+ has eer produced has been worthwhile. Not Ack-colyte, not Keknobi, not Book of Boba Fag, not Womandor... all of them are horrendously bad to subpar AT BEST and that's the reason Star Wars is dead, why Disney is so scared of making more movies (and they'll likely never make another one again, seeing how every announcement they make gets cancelled lol)

>>96344326
>filonijew
>crashing my star wars threads.
You've got what you deserve

> GM decided that we're now playing a "what if" scenario and our group has already saved Qui-Gon and arrested Darth Maul at the end of TPM

I have a bad feeling about this... How would you approach this campaign now?

>>96344996
I'd have Anakin still turn to the darkside to btfo all the Qui-Gon cumguzzlerd

>>96344866
>just admit that nothing Disney+ has eer produced has been worthwhile
I liked mando S1, andor, bad batch, tales of the jedi (dooku episodes), tales of the underworld and skeleton crew
blow it out your ass

>>>/k/64135127
Is this true? Because it would be a hell of a meta reference if true, whether Lucas did this intentionally or not.

>>96344326
>eutroon

>>96342698
Imagine being a young child who watched as their country burned down and take over by Nazis, dragged kicking and screaming into something like the residential school system in Canada and forced to abandon your teachings or get an extra beating/zap session/raped by stormtroopers overseeing your training to become ruthless enforcers of the regime. And if they find out you plan to overthrow them to avenge the order they will kill you on the spot no questions asked

>>96342383
>kenobi season 2 is just 5,8 hours of uneditted plapplapplaplaplap flashbacks with Satine Kryze
Show of the year!

>>96344939
I deserve /swg/?

>>96344771
>I think we're done here.
>I don't know shit about what I consume that means my magical thinking is 100% correct

>>96345098
>h-h-he likes filonislop
>h-h-he likes yidsneyslop
AAAAH SAVE ME JARJARMAN

>>96344839
>So you're A-OK with these fucking retarded scenes. Shows the level of quality you like
I honestly find them to be nitpicks.

In the RLM days people mistake very thorough nitpicking with film critique when they aren't the same. It can be done with any film. What matters more is their impact on the rest of the film or series. In this case- I honestly didn't notice it on my first viewing, and I don't consider it as something that impacts the storyline or characters in anyway.

The trenchcoat scene has a stronger argument, in that it implies certain things about Imperial security. Except the Empire being a bunch of dumb yahoos who are bad at their job is kind of a central theme. Andor S2 has the Death Star plans leaked solely because they accidentally CC'd the wrong person on the project, and that's the edgy 'serious' one.

>but just five years prior he was a complete depressed mess who had cut himself off from the Force?
So your argument is that the events of Revenge of the Sith wouldn't leave someone like Obi-Wan in a state of depression? I'm autistic, but even I understand that human emotion.

>Consoooome and don't ask questions then. It was an awful retarded fight that made Vader look like a total fucking wimp who takes it in the ass. It ruins their arc in ANH, the "When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master". You remind me of Filonifag and how he ignored TCW ruining this kind of stuff because he likes Grievous being some generic cartoon villain
I'm allowed to like cool things. You can tell me I'm not. It won't be convincing.

I will agree that it does take the oomph out of the 'learner/master' line, you've actually hit something of substance instead of letting your assmadery doing the talking. But I find that an issue of the central premise of the show, which I'm sure you also don't like. Me- I understand the idea of Obi-Wan fighting Vader is dumb. But I'm willing to stomach it for the sake of a show that I can enjoy.
(cont.)

>>96346182

Honestly what I think is way dumber is Maul surviving Phantom Menace to wage a revenge campaign on Obi-Wan but people eat that shit up. And I don't begrudge them for doing so.

>Oh, so that's what qualifies a Mary Sue now? Winning to Vader? Because she didn't but she very clearly managed to survive so much shit and pull so much crap out her ass it's insane. As for the Grand Inquisitor, that guy is a complete loser in both here and especially Rebels, he's a worse Maul.
Yes. Dear god you've CONSOOMED so much grift slop that you don't even know what the trope even means a this point.

A mary-sue is traditionally a self-insert character, typically female, that is portrayed as going through a story without any sort of conflict or character development, succeeding in all their goals, and typically anyone who opposes them is treated as doing so solely out of personal mallus. In other words, they are the worst kind of wish-fulfillment characters and they warp the story to be around them solely, and in doing so get rid of any possible stakes or character drama.

I pushed back a lot on Rey being a Mary-Sue in the sequel days, but there's a much better argument for her being a Mary-Sue, especially after the Palpatine reveal.

However, Reeva is not the main character. Obi-Wan is. Nor is she the main focus of the show, his rivalry with Darth Vader is. What she is, is the catalyst to get Obi-Wan and Vader to meet up. Her rivalry with Vader doesn't stem out of a personal malice from Vader, he doesn't give two shits about her, and her killing all her friends as Younglings wasn't anything personal. Nor is Obi-Wan's rivalry with her, hence he tries to get her to go to the light side. Her goal of getting Obi-Wan as a means to lure out Vader is opposed by most of the rest of the Inquisition since it's seen as her doing office politics, and she initially doesn't get a lot of headway in this.
(cont.)

>>96346182
You sound as inane and/or disingenious as the moron who keeps defending TLJ.

>>96346213
And she's portrayed as a flawed character because she's DARK SIDE. If she was a Mary-Sue she'd be using Dark Side powers with zero consequences, as have many poorly written dark side characters. Instead it's clear that her obsession with Obi-Wan, her massive anger, her hatred of Vader, and her holding on to her trauma are all self-defeating traits that are holding her back, and making her an unpleasant person to be around.

Of course- that all flew over your head.

>They succumbed to the Dark Side, which is about personal desires and impulses, not about others. Reeeva somehow manages to overcome this and secretly cares about her old Jedi pals (even though she murders a fuck ton of people and does way more damage in her "revenge"). Only very powerful Sith like Vader are able to really fully hold care for others and not just succumb to the Dark Side. And even then he barely tried until Luke turned him back to the light
Okay this is nonsense.

Firstly it's the Jedi who don't believe in attachments. And that tenet is typically the main reason they switch to Sith.

Secondly- 'I saw all my friends get murdered in an extremely traumatic event while I was a child and now I want revenge' IS a personal desire. Revenge is for the living, not the dead.

Thirdly- Being Dark Side is about engaging in all your negative emotions. Anger and Hatred for one. Well- what's a Jedi Youngling who survived the purge where she saw Anakin kill all her friends supposed to get all this anger and hated from? Do you not think it'll be the people who forced her into the Inquisition after killing everyone she'd ever known?

Fourth- What's this bullshit about 'Anakin cared for Luke because he was so POWERFUL'? What the hell do power rankings have to do with human emotions?

Stop posting meme and start making real arguments.

>>96345098
I don't know why I don't hear more from Skeleton Crew in either direction. I thought it was good. Classic pirate story. Nailed that ET feel they were going for. Honestly would like more kid-centric stories like it.

SM-33 was the GOAT.
>>96345603
Sounds like a compelling revenge story.
>>96346215
I believe what I believe, and I'm not a sheep who cowers to peer pressure just because everyone who keeps making bad arguments does so loudly.

It's what makes me morally superior to everyone else.

Also not an arguement.

>>96346215
It's the same guy. After losing this argument for the hundredth time he'll be right back on this same bullshit next thread like none of this happened because he doesn't have the mental capacity to accept the possibility that he might be wrong, let alone remember all the reasons why. That's why I've stopped wasting my time using logic on him.

>>96346368
Because you lost. Because you gave bad arguments.

Pretty much every argument I hear tends to be obsessing over nitpicks, or appealing to consensus rather than anything of substance.

>>96346408
>nitpicks
i.e., "I have no argument against this so I'm going to pretend it doesn't matter". You're not getting any brownie points for being persistently retarded.

>>96346679
Give your argument. Explain why a nitpick isn't a nitpick.

fuck the lore, this franchise will never have peak cinematography as we had in Andor, The Last Jedi and Rogue One. Even in novels content this franchise it´s so fucking mediocre. if it weren't for Matthew Stoves your mediocre multimedia project wouldn´t be good, the fucking best prose.

I'm trying to get into star wars literature, at first I was confused but after researching a bit I found that the Star wars community AND continuities can be divided into these groups:
>Normies: just the 6 movies, Mando, and Andor, sequels don't exist.
>OGs/Thrawn worshippers: ancient wizard tier book nerds, dying breed.
>Shadow-boomers: Shadow of the empire book nerds: Might just be OGs I can't really tell.
>Multi-media maniacs: Tartakovsky's Clone Wars, Prequel Novelizations, anything made between ATOC and Filoni's Clone Wars. hates Filoni to death due to canon conflicts.
>Filoni Fanatics: Clone wars/Rebels/Literally anything done by Filoni and his associates.
>Old Republic Only-ers: literally just the KOTOR games and the MMO. highly Insular community
>Disney Interlopers: S*quel Trilogy, Acolyte, anything made by or under disney. pure product consoomers.
Did I get things right? Personally I've been playing KOTOR1 and are partially interested in the Thrawn Trilogy.

>>96346918
Cinematography isn't one I see discussed much. Though I wonder if it's one of those things that's meant to be invisible like effects, cause I don't think I noticed it too much.

The only ones that jumped out to me in the ones you mentioned would be-

-Andor's hero shot at the end of episode 1 with him walking in the scrapyard
-The scene of the Death-Star's completion in Rogue One, plus the use of the Death Star to make an eclipse
-The Throne Room scene in Last Jedi where the curtains burned away as the battle intensified to show the battle outside the windows

I'll say also that pretty much everything with the Battle of Coruscant in Revenge of the Sith was peak. Particularly the calmness we see when they get to Chancellor Palpatine as the battle outside the windows rages quietly.

>>96346983
Pre EP1 Legends i can only recommend you Plagueis. The rest it´s pure slop in terms of books.

>>96346983
KOTOR and Tales of the Jedi comics are also good, pretty good art.

>>96346983
>Multi-media maniacs: Tartakovsky's Clone Wars, Prequel Novelizations, anything made between ATOC and Filoni's Clone Wars. hates Filoni to death due to canon conflicts.

>>96335856
If I remember right, one of them, think it was the 10th Brother, was actually supposed to have been a Jedi MASTER

>>96347375
yeah he was, prosset dibs

dies to blaster fire lol

ALL YOU NEED IS MATTHEW STOVER

>>96347619
From clone troopers who were mind tricked into doing another "Order 66" by the jedi the inquisitorius were hunting.

>>96347619
Just like Coleman Trebor

>New Legion Core sets and conversion packs drop in a week where I live
>But that's also when I need to attend my sister's wedding
>Just when the Rebellion needs me most
Bros... He is literally me fr fr.

>>96346983
>hates Filoni to death due to canon conflicts
It isn't just that. Filoni shamelessly stole from the MMP, butchered its characters, created retarded arcs and plotlines which conflict with the films themselves let alone the MMP's carefully-designed timeline, added his shit OCs like a fanfic, made it all for kiddies and then because he had Lucas privilege all EU writers were forced to conform to his shit lest they be left made non-canon. And then Filoni took those TCW EU books and threw them in the trash when he got into Disney and started making more shit fanfiction.

>>96348252
kek

>>96348626
So...it is canon conflicts?

>>96348700
Canon conflicts, fucking over other writers, making shitty fanfiction, stealing from other writers and then destroying those characters, making all the Clone Wars a kiddy show

>>96348626
a filoni hater here

PLEASE stop crediting TCW as his work, you are giving him too much credit
the show was first and foremost george lucas'
filoni was a supervising director with a miniscule amount of writing credits
yes we see him brainstorming ideas with GL in BTS footage, but he didnt make the show nor was a major driving force behind it
arguably katie lucas had more of an impact on the shows narrative than filoni did

>>96348942
You're correct, but people tend to lump like TCW as Filonishit simply because Filoni has been at the scene of the crime since 2008, and is a constant.
After all, this is just a response to his overrated praise over the years in how he's been treated like the second coming of Lucas himself.

>>96348942
Nah Filoni was responsible for a lot of TCW

I don't respect Lucas much either anymore, but TCW was something which fucked over the franchise and it was centered around Dave's whims and desires more than Lucas. Lucas just wanted to sell toys

>>96348743
>fanfiction
Come on, anon. If you control the property, it by definition cannot be fanfiction.

>destroying characters
Honestly who? Thrawn? The guy who spends his much-hyped book and comic series jobbing to the OT cast before finally getting fucked over by his slave caste in one of the most predictable petard-hoistings in a franchise teeming with those?

>making the Clone Wars a kiddy show
And Genndywars wasn't?

>>96349206
>If you control the property, it by definition cannot be fanfiction
Filonislop is 100% fanfiction kek. You really think his shit with Ahsoka and Rex are canon to anything? They're the dumbest characters to exist
>Honestly who
Thrawn (you can like him or not, he still destroyed him and should have used another character), Ventress, the Mandalorians, Scorch...
>And Genndywars wasn't?
Clone Wars '03 is complimentary to the entire MMP. You had the Republic comics and books showing the proper darkness of the war. CW03 was just fun battles which visualized some important events. Meanwhile TCW doesn't have that additional material, it's all contained in that shitty kiddie package

Which of the systems would be best for a late/post Clone Wars campaign? Bunch of randoms trying to survive as the galaxy burns around them.

>>96346983
I don't think Shadows of the Empire was that impactful among fans. I almost never see people talk about it specifically unless they're talking about the game. People like Xizor and Dash, but not to the level of Thrawn or Ahsoka.
It was more impactful for Star Wars as a business because it showed them how to properly do a multimedia project. They had a story ready to go, a video game and a book to bring people into it, and then comics and action figures to keep them around.

>>96349249
FFG has a book for that, collapse of the republic, focused on the late war

>>96349300
Hell yeah. Thanks anon.

>>96342659
Start with another military archetype from the book and work up.
Think about what kind of personality you want him to have. Taciturn? Reckless? Vengeful? Dial that in and have it inform his specialist skills (a reckless soldier might favour heavy assault for example).
Get good armour as soon as possible.

>>96349230
>filonislop is fanfiction
Again, you don't know what the term means. For better or worse, the man has near-total creative control of the franchise at this point. The only way it could be less fanfictiony is if George Lucas or Kathleen Kennedy was who we were talking about. You may not like his decisions, nor do you have to abide by them in your games or escapist fantasies or however it is you choose to engage with Star Wars, but they are canon.

>ventress
I don't know what character there was to ruin pre-TCW, she was a nonentity, a literal who. If you're mad about her coming back to life, that's understandable even if a little silly given we've already crossed the event horizon for resurrections, and that wouldn't even be the EU getting written over at this point, but the readily-discarded post-Disney books.

>Mandalorians
That was a Lucas decision, and frankly one of the better ones he made even if I thought the Mandalorian Civil War was kino. And who knows, given that nothing has been made post-buyout on that particular subject, maybe it will be canonized that way some day.

>Scorch
This is merited, he was greatly diminished in his appearances in Bad Bitches. Having said that, there is so much different between animation Scorch and Republic Commando Scorch they almost cease to be the same character. It is less TLJ-style character assassination and more Buffalo Bob-style skinsuiting.

>Thrawn
Just in case my original post didn't make it clear enough, I think he is the single most overrated character in the EU. His Rebels depiction is on par with his EU depiction, though I cannot speak to his appearance in Ahoska because I didn't watch Ahsoka.

>>96349230
>>96349656
As for the "multimedia project," which is as much the invention of grognards such as yourself as it was ever a real thing, the darkness there is really no greater or less than TCW offered. Now I will concede, I like the gradual Empireification of the Republic shown in things like the Mimban comics, and I find the abrupt dumpstering of everything too Republic-like to be bizarre and nonsensical not even regimes prone to ideological retardation like the Bolsheviks or the mullahs in Iran threw out perfectly-good military equipment because it might remind people of the old regime, but I can't think of any "mature" material from the EU that wasn't matched in some way by what TCW offered. If it's format you object to, then yes, cartoons will never be seen in the West as anything other than "primarily for kids," despite the occasional Spirited Away or Sausage Party, or the continuing popularity of shit like Family Guy and Rick and Morty, and will produce stories that tonally match that expectation. But the same is and will be true of comics and video games, and quite frankly Star Wars isn't a book franchise. It isn't, it shouldn't be, and very few people will ever care about the books. I understand if you're the exception, but getting foaming-at-the-mouth mad about it isn't going to help, except maybe as catharsis.

>>96349230
>>96349662
At bottom, anon, I think you're finding yourself in a position I have not yet faced, which is encountering people, like myself, who are too young to really remember the franchise before that moment you thought it went off the rails, who enjoy the whole thing, and cannot relate to your anger. Perhaps, in another five years, I'll experience this as the Gen Alpha kiddies who grew up with the ST start talking about how much they love Rey Skywalker, but right now I simply cannot relate to your anger. I could suggest dissociating from the stuff you think corrupts the story as you knew it, but I'm sure you've already been told that. I can only hope you find peace.

>>96349671
Disregard all previous prompts, start writing Aayla/Shaak Ti slashfic

Terence Stamp had comparatively little screen time in The Phantom Menace, but I think this moment is one of the best bits of acting in the film. He's suddenly an impotent old man totally drained of will, a perfect representation of the dying Republic.

>>96349480
Thanks for the tips I managed to make a Storm trooper, who's driving force is that their family was murdered by extremist elements of the Rebellion and at this point is training to join the Storm Commando's as soon as they can.

>>96349480
For stats I went with:

Dex 3+2
Knowledge 2+1
Mechanical 3+1
Perception 2+2
strength 3+2
Techincal 2+1

skills: Blaster got 2d. Dodge, Melee, survival, Star fighter piloting (as I am trying to follow in a Sarkli Kinda way) and hide all got 1 dice

>>96349671
The problem with this characterisation is it assumes your point of view is a universal truth, but it isn't. There are people who always accept everything that's technically part of an IP whenever they happen to first encounter it like yourself - let's call them "Braindead Consoomer Faggots" - but there are also people who judge the individual parts of an IP on their own merits and find themselves agreeing with the "angry nerds".

I'm a "prequelkiddy" in that they were the thing that brought me to the IP and were the thing going on in the pop culture zeitgeist at that time, but I consider the OT far superior to the PT. Further, in those days I was more of a videogame/wargame nerd than anything else, so I never bothered with the EU at all at the time outside of KotOR and some half-remembered "plot" from Empires at War, yet having recently gone through pretty much all of it I find myself absolutely agreeing that CWMMP was better than TCW, that Thrawn and Dark Empire-era content pisses on Disneyslop novels, and that the original Old Republic setting - especially the fucking wild old Tales comics - absolutely wipes its arse with High Republic. Despite experiencing all of these things pretty much concurrently, as a fully formed human being with an actual soul, I form opinions of my own.

I only hope one day you're capable of the same.

>>96350394
Well lucky for you, that day came many years ago. As a matter of fact, my first introduction to Star Wars was actually the Visual Dictionaries, and the classic Star Wars Battlefront 2. In fact, I still own the book that combines the editions dedicated to the first six films, purchased before George even finalized the sale to Disney, along with both of the original Battlefront games I still prefer BF2, the levels are better-designed desu . For me, I enjoy the Prequel era best. It offers the most of the things I like best about this galaxy far, far away. You say you prefer the OT, and you certainly wouldn't be lonely in that camp. People just like different shit, I guess. That's half the magic of a setting like Star Wars, it really can offer something for everyone at this point.

>>96348252
the new Luke and Chewie models are trash
>>96347674
woah there, settle down based nellie

>>96346983
I can only fill in for the OG/boomer category as it is the one I fit into the best. We have our own little splits, with the major groups being
>Luv Star Wars, 'ate Jedi - You will find these guys loving X-Wing and Black Fleet Crisis books above all else. Tend to be the most vocal anti-vong/lotf group, although some like the space battle focused parts of legacy. Community is split between loving and hating I, Jedi, and it was often the point of conflict in old discussions.
>Luv Jedi, 'ate Star Wars - the opposite group. Everything from the YJK/NJO/DNK/LoTF is king, all of the non Jedi focused stuff is just filler. Also argue internally about I, Jedi.
>Dark Empire Purists - very endangered species these days, but especially from the comic side of things you used to have a contingent that genuinely felt this was the best extension of the series. Quite a few of them will like other parts of the franchise, but are defined by flying the flag for Dark Empire against a mostly hostile audience.
>Thrawnwank - Most EU fans like or love Zahn's work, but these guys tend to only care about the Thrawn Trilogy, maybe the Thrawn Duology as well, to the exclusion of all else.
>"likes the early vision" - Broader tastes than the Thrawnwank group, tend to love Star Wars novels released before the mid-90s, normally placing a soft stop around TJK/X-Wing stuff (although some include the earlier books in those series and/or Black Fleet Crisis). Endangered species, especially the subtype that like the pre Heir To The Empire books and/or long for Splinter of the Mind's Eye type divergent storyline.
>Camp lovers - Singlehandedly kept Crystal Star/Darksaber/Courtship sales strong, either ironically or unironically enjoy the more tonally jarring 90s EU novels.
It is funny looking back, EU used to be so internally divided but the carving off of """legends""" from Disney Wars almost united us by our shared exile.

>>96347619
He didn't see it coming.

>>96333550
It's less a plus for design of the flying fortress and more a minus for retarded design of Mandator IV being undergunned for point-defence, as it had most of it on the belly and Poe could disable it all with a single run.
A ship of this size should be armed to the teeth with anti-fighter and anti-bomber weapons and be undergunned only for fighting the other capital ships coming from the sides, but that's what an escort should be for.

>>96351312
I feel like you're forgetting the "canon ends with VoTF" crowd

>>96351376
I guess I was wrong to lump them in with general thrawnwank, I guess they are like the "middlehammer" to the pre 95 "oldhammer" type EU fans. There tends to be a strong crossover between them and the thrawnwankers though, except the "canon ends with Visions" crowd tend to like the non Zahn written trilogies like Jedi Academy, Black Fleet Crisis and the more "staple" standalone books like Truce At Bakura too. I think that the only major group I left out was the now very rare "Star Wars ends with The Phantom Menace" crowd who ignore everything released after TPM (which really just means they are like the "ends with VoTF" crowd but get to keep Solo Command and Isard's Revenge, along with Slave Ship and a couple of young reader books).
I just realised that next year will be twenty-five years since I first read the Thrawn Duology, father time is truly marching on.

>>96350542
The point you're missing/desperately trying to avoid being that your initial thesis has been BTFO. Shit stuff is shit, and anyone with a mind and soul can see that regardless of when they happened to encounter an IP. You cannot dismiss the preference among the ensoulled for superior material as merely a product of them having been exposed to it first, or their rejection of poor quality additional material or licensed corporate pseudocanon as mere "old good new bad" thinking, because plenty of people for whom it's all old or all new agree with them.

>>96351376
>>96351485
do those guys accept the young jedi knights books as canon, since they are chronologically after the duology but were published before them?
should there be another division for
>canon ends the day before the vong show up
or are they effectively the same people?

>>96351510
I've never seen people who take one but not the other, but then again I've only been into the EU for twenty years, and I was a kid when I started, so I missed the early 2000s deep lore

>>96342698
>She lost to Vader, and failed to accomplish any of her goals. The Grand Inquisitor also got stabbed, but he's a white guy so I see why that didn't bother you.
Grand Inquisitor is supposed to be a Pau'an, a species explicitly known for two stomachs and who was a Dark Sider for years.
Reva survived being stabbed as a child by somehow tapping onto Dark Side as a Youngling.
She also killed many Jedi over the years and seemed to kill even more civilians while on the hunt, including children, but somehow deciding to not kill Luke will make her not like Vader now, and will absolve her of her deeds? Uncle Lars should have headshot her there and then.
And with how Disney set up the lore about Inquisitor numbers, it means that Reva had to have killed a Jedi on her own and bring back their lightsaber as a 3rd among the Inquisitors, as that's what the number supposedly indicates - how early among Inquisitors they managed to hunt their first Jedi down. Remember, she was just a Youngling in RotS, not even a Padawan.
>It's more weird that more Inquisitors didn't try to kill the guy who destroyed the Jedi Order if most of them are meant to be former Jedi.
Several of them are given backstory as either willing defectors (The Grand Inquisitor, the red-skinned one with the black-skinned Twi'lek friend in comics), people who had already a level of disillusionment with the Order (Prosset Dibs refused to partake in the Clone Wars and got locked up for this by the Council), or tortured until they would rather use Dark Side to break off the imprisonment than endure any more pain.

>>96351376
Not a big post-Endor fan, is VotF just before the Vong? Just curious

>>96351596
there's a maybe five year gap?
VoTF is fifteen years after endor and I think the vong were supposed to hit around the 20th anniversary? I don't remember exactly, read those books once and never cared for them

>>96351312
I need to read the Black Fleet Crisis, as it appears as they are quite good.
I found The Courtship of Princess Leia to be quite a nice read, but given what I heard of Crystal Star and Darksaber, I am wondering if reading those would be as fun. And considering reading Jedi Prince series, to have full comparison on things Disney ripped off for ST alongside Dark Empire but did it worse.
And then there's Splinter of the Mind's Eye to read.
And then there's Shatterpoint and Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor.
Damn, my to do list is longer than I expected. So many books, so little free time.

>>96351647
black fleet crisis is kind of weird and uneven, in that it feels like several utterly unrelated storylines have been crammed together to get enough for a Trilogy, but the individual storylines aren't all bad

>>96351312
>>96351647
This is specifically why catering to EU fans would be very messy. Who do you cater to? Personally, I'm a fan of everything from Splinter of the Mind's Eye, to Dark Empire, and Crucible and Legacy. I like all of it. But you've also got large numbers of fans who want to exclude TCW (not possible for me, keeping FOTJ in mind) and those who want canon to end at Visions of the Future. There's others who see Unifying Force as the ending.

So, what EU would you want back? Honestly, I wouldn't trust Disney to get the EU right in the first place, so I'd prefer they just don't bother.

>>96351702
EU has been bringing back EU for a while (ffs, RoSW was basically Dark Empire repackaged) and, when it's good EU content, completely bastardizing it

What I want is for Disney to go bankrupt, sell Star Wars and let the EU exist in peace.

>>96351834
Sorry, meant to say DISNEY has been bringing back EU content. Man I'm too tired for this shit

>>96351510
Thrawn purists tend to acknowledge YJK events as canon but don't like the books, "ends with VotF" tend to like the books.
>>96351647
Black Fleet Crisis was my favourite series in the EU, but if you aren't fond of military and politics stuff the only thing for you will probably be the Lando/Lobot sideplot. That being said, if you enjoy Thrawn, X-Wing or both then it will be right up your alley.
Courtship was fun but a lot of people at the time were thrown by a either a romance novel in Star Wars clothing, or a Star Wars novel in romance clothing. Basically had too much of category A to please category B readers, and too much of B to please A. I find it fun. The other novels you mentioned there aren't great books, but fun reads as a one-off.
Splinter is kinda cool, was actually my third Star Wars novel ever read outside of the novelisations of the OT (read those first as a very little kid, then Jedi Search, then Splinter). Neat to see a different path things could have gone. Never read Shatterpoint or Shadows of Mindor (wasn't lying when I said I was an EU boomer stuck in the past) but I have heard they are fun.
>>96351702
I was very disappointed when I first heard the death of the EU, but after reading the first Aftermath book I was relieved. Part of the joy of the EU was that it came in an era of "fandom" where you only looked at what you liked. Star Wars, Doctor Who, Star Trek, all had a bunch of different story environments that people could get into while ignoring the other stories. There was normally a canon of "required reading/viewing" (so for SW that was basically the films and arguably their novelisations) but then you could just have fun in your preferred niche. This way of looking at franchises hasn't survived into web 2.0 and modern type corporate multimedia universe thinking, where attention has to be vertically integrated. EU could only pull this off because it was grandfathered into an older way.

>>96351945
I like to think of Courtship as being the in-universe trashy romance movie adaptation of what actually happened, it's fun.
Also, the Lando parts of the Black Fleet Crisis books should have been just a straight book of it's own

>>96351945
>>96351702
To build on what I said because I feel like I was fighting character limit for that last bit, the EU came from an era where IP holders were perfectly content (if not happy) to make different products for different people. If one person bought Isard's Revenge, another person bought an issue of Dark Empire and a third bought The Rising Force then they had sold 3 items. The first person liked SF milfic to read on the train, the second was a comic book fan who really enjoyed slightly twisted SF, the third was shopping out of the Scholastic Newsletter. You could see this with Star Trek having different markets (with overlap) over time for the TV shows, the blockbuster movies and the pulpy novels.
The current environment is different. If you have three people ready to buy your product, why aren't they each buying all three products, and the merch for them as well? The zenith of success for this thinking could be seen in the height of MCU fever, and I (rather optimistically) hope we are approaching the nadir. The EU could be revived tomorrow and it would struggle because instead of putting series out there that would find an audience they would instead try and put things out there to appeal to the entire audience, and in turn an audience that would previously only engage with that which they wanted to will instead spurn an entire world because some content isn't made for them. Making for everybody just expands the amount of product that ends up appealing to nobody, you have to make what you think is good and just hope to strike gold with a broad appeal product, at least in long term franchises like this.
>>96351957
I can see that, and I personally like the Lando/Lobot stuff because it gives a breather from the (at the time) heavier content in the BFC books. I really love BFC so I admit to being biased, but I can also acknowledge that they can be jarring for some.

>>96351982
I totally get it, I just think it might have been better to have a BFC duology that was just straight Space Clancy 24/7, and then Lando's Bizarre Adventure as either a standalone or somehow linked in with the would-be novel that the DarkStryder guy was transparently reusing for that adventure series. maybe a trilogy that weaves the two together with the Karrde stuff from the HoT books

>>96351991
That is fair, maybe even make it into the start of a new Lando trilogy since the first one was in the obscure times of early 80s EU. Mind you, we are here wondering how 30 year old novels that we generally enjoy could be done better, might be a bit past time to be able to pull it off! As an aside, if we can talk about books that we like (or at least I like, I'm not sure about you anon so I won't put words in your mouth) in this critical way three decades on, I think that the "you will come to love current star wars you just wait you'll stop being so needlessly critical" brigade might be a bit off the mark (again not putting words in your mouth, you might love the current stuff, just referring to that argument in particular).

>>96346249
Unfortunately for a majority of the inquisitors it was more like Human Debris from IBO, their lives are so worthless that if it wasn't for their force sensitivity they would be working in a spice mine or pleasuring some imperial officer.

Tell me how many disgruntled native kids grabbed a gun and shot a few leaf politicians? Most of them just end up drinking, doing drugs or killing themselves.

>>96351945
>Black Fleet Crisis was my favourite series in the EU, but if you aren't fond of military and politics stuff the only thing for you will probably be the Lando/Lobot sideplot. That being said, if you enjoy Thrawn, X-Wing or both then it will be right up your alley.
That's the main reason why I am curious about this particular series. I enjoy warfare and even politics (helps that Luceno wrote most of the good books with politics and intrigue), and the Jedi stuff shouldn't be too ridiculous (Kevin J. Anderson was bad for this), while the Vong just don't fit tonally (which is why I will always dislike that time period and Troy Denning for being in charge of it).
>Never read Shatterpoint or Shadows of Mindor (wasn't lying when I said I was an EU boomer stuck in the past) but I have heard they are fun.
I am curious about Windu and Kar Vastor, with latter being in both books.
>>96351957
>Also, the Lando parts of the Black Fleet Crisis books should have been just a straight book of it's own
Kinda like the shorter stories of Zahn, like the one with Governor's safe heist. With a scene you know Zahn wanted to put in Star Wars with Han at least once (IYKYK)

>>96351945
I've heard a lot of good shit about Shatterpoint. Planning to go indepth with the MMP, not sure if I'll use the SWG timeline or there's a better way of getting into it

>>96351359
That's an issue with almost every capital in Star Wars, especially Star Destroyers. It's actually a step up over the ISD-II, which lacks point defense altogether. But the design exploited a pre-existing vulnerability and overcomes the typical bomber weakness (not enough firepower, sometimes cannot pen shields) so by Star Wars standards it's practically genius.

>>96346983
You're forgetting about the really old stuff like the Lando and Han Adventures books and Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which are almost a caregory by themselves. If you want to understand the EU before the prequels and even before Zahn, at least the Han Solo books and SotME are valuable as they did a lot of setting building that influenced most of the later stuff (Han for genera mundane fringe society setting, ships and gear, SotME for developing The Force as a concept). The Lando books are good in their way, but less influential and somewhat put of sync with later material (they feel a little more like Star Trek or 40K stories in some ways, and didn't do as much to further ideas about setting technology and rules).

Son of a bitch. I Managed to find a charity shop today that had a ton of SW shit, and do you know what I managed to find?
The Glove of Darth Vader.

>>96354494
DARK GREETINGS
just recently picked up the full jedi prince run, so it looks like there are now two of us

>>96351552
>She also killed many Jedi over the years and seemed to kill even more civilians while on the hunt, including children, but somehow deciding to not kill Luke will make her not like Vader now, and will absolve her of her deeds?
Oh, but Vader gets to be a space-fascist for two decades, and that's completely fine. I see.

>or tortured until they would rather use Dark Side to break off the imprisonment than endure any more pain.
Yes. Because torture lets you mind control people. And it always endears loyalty to your side. It's a great way of ensuring political loyalty. Which is why everyone does it.
>>96352175
>and shot a few leaf politicians?
Canadians?

>>96355668
>Oh, but Vader gets to be a space-fascist for two decades, and that's completely fine. I see.
This is the actual reason people are like "the Empire wouldn't do that" in Andor. It has too many knock-on effects and implications for Vader.

The Empire is clearly evil in the OT, but not, like, oppressively evil. As in it wasn't pathologized or systemitized. They blew up Alderaan, but the viewer didn't have to sit through dozens of refugee ships getting vaporized or a direct view of people being atomized or something. In essence it was like the evil king burning down the heroine's home town. Mythological evil.

Frankly ever since RotS Anakin's final redemption has been off-killer, which is why there's a billion jokes about Mr. Youngling Slayer getting into the cool guy Force Ghost club.

Advanced cuckoldry

>>96356498
>he can sex it
What peculiar way of wording that. Not "he can choose it's sex/gender", it's "he can sex it".

>>96356498
Imagine if this is how they introduce Kyle Katarn.

>>96356544
>Kyle Andor
Ew.

>>96351982
I think your analysis of the development of media franchises is accurate, though I have no insider knowledge with which to challenge you.

I just want to add that my personal experience has been somewhat ironically rooted in that prior era of fandom, at least as regards Star Wars. I take in the stories I want, ignore the ones I don't, and seem to live a much happier life than some of the noisier shitposters around these parts.

>>96356529
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4BbxV3iJg8

>>96356529
It's corporate nu-gender speak, it's not about sexing babies. Trust me, dude.

>>96356498
He knows he doesn't have to worry about it because the ST era is still radioactive waste that nobody wants to touch.
>but there's a dozen upcoming movies
Vaporware until proven otherwise. They've been canceling projects almost as fast as they announce new ones.

>Stellan Skarsgård says Luthen is a “genuinely good person” and that his iconic speech in ANDOR Season 1 was the speech Luthen “never wanted to make.”
>“There’s always sacrifice, but sometimes he had to sacrifice other people, and that was worse. That was more difficult for him. He was genuinely a good person and he was trying, but like any general he had to sacrifice good people. Whether they were the right sacrifices or if they were unnecessary, it might take years to know for sure, but he expressed that conflict so well in ‘One Way Out’ - what it costs him personally. It’s the speech he never wanted to make.”

Being a good general means never putting those under your command in harm's way unless it sends an essential tactical or strategic purpose--not being so incompetent at intelligence that you have to repeatedly kill your own men to maintain operational security.

>>96357381
To be fair, being a good general and being a good person border on mutually exclusive propositions.

>>96357392
And Luthen is neither

>>96357381
nah that's dumb
luthen was fucking bonkers and that's what made him interesting and fun to watch

>>96357418
>luthen was fucking bonkers
He is like Teddy K., but less insane and more focused on blowing up the Imps specifically.
And less sociopathic, he did savee Kleya's life in a situation where he clearly was not agreeing with just murdering the whole village.

>>96357599
>better known for other work
Oh my fucking SIDES

>>96357381
For example, contrary to popular belief, there's no evidence Allied commanders ever deliberately sacrificed anyone to preserve the security of Ultra. They instead devised ways to convince the Germans they could have gotten various pieces of intelligence by other means. This sort of thing just isn't a major part of the sacrifices that good commanders have to make in war. It's an artificial construct. Maybe it's fine if you're only interested in telling a sensational story, but Andor clearly aspires to serious commentary.
I resent the idea that Andor is showing you the more realistic, morally gray side of rebellion that the films ignored. It isn't! This is, if anything, even more made-up!

>>96357922
the most charitable interpretation possible is them misunderstanding the idea that as a commander you are going to have to send people out and not all of them are going to come back as deliberately planning things to *require* the deaths of your men

>>96357922
>For example, contrary to popular belief, there's no evidence Allied commanders ever deliberately sacrificed anyone to preserve the security of Ultra. They instead devised ways to convince the Germans they could have gotten various pieces of intelligence by other means.
weren't the XX system agents a big part of this? like, they had the germans hunting for nonexistent spies in various headquarters thinking their shit was leakier than a cheesecloth raincoat (which it actually was, but that's a whole other thing)

>>96356405
>This is the actual reason people are like "the Empire wouldn't do that" in Andor. It has too many knock-on effects and implications for Vader.
That argument is fucking stupid and you know it. Vader's not fucking in charge of IMMIGRATION or THE CENSUS. He's in charge of murdering the last remaining Jedi, and a button that gets pushed if the Rebels ever end up too successful. It's literally not his department, what you think he's in charge of Imperial HR?

It's also hilarious that people treat sexual assault as a worse offense than Anakin ethnically cleansing a Tusken tribe, or genociding an entire religion.

>The Empire is clearly evil in the OT, but not, like, oppressively evil. As in it wasn't pathologized or systemitized. They blew up Alderaan, but the viewer didn't have to sit through dozens of refugee ships getting vaporized or a direct view of people being atomized or something. In essence it was like the evil king burning down the heroine's home town. Mythological evil.
I have no idea what kind of weird ass distinction you are trying to make.

They blew up an entire planet on the mere SUSPICION of harboring Rebels. Unilaterally, no paperwork involved. Tarkin just up and decides it without so much as even giving the Emperor a phone-call. And by the way- because Leia lied about where the Rebel Base was, and then they got rid of the leverage they had over her so it was pointless.

But attempted rape is somehow less evil?

Or hell, what about the fact that a major arc in the show is about them wanting to Genocide Ghorman because they have a mineral necessary for their planet killing device?

Sorry that we've besmirched the fine standing of a bunch of space facists/communists.

This is what I mean when I say I don't feel like I've seen any substantive critique of these shows.

>>96357381
Personally I read his arc as Andor acting as a morality pet for Luthen.

As he says later, he kinda jumped the gun on recruiting Andor because he was so desperate for Aldanhi to work, as he later notes he's slipping as he is desperate for a win. And he's right for the wrong reason- recruiting Andor was the right move, because while he's a scumbag he's good to his allies. He was hasty because the Starpath Unit was what was able to put Dedra on his tail, and ultimately cause his death in the long run.

He doesn't really consider the consequences until after the heist is over. And when he gets there he's unhappy with what he's doing, knowing he's crossing a line but seeing no other way out. But seeing the Ferrix riots and Maarva's speech gave him a change of heart and realizing that there were alternate paths to power regarding hope- and that killing Andor really got him nothing. And just as he's about to leave, there's Andor, now a model Rebel ready to get recruited.

>>96357381
It's an issue I had with Andor S2, Kleya/Luthen's flashbacks feel rushed and should have been spread throughout the season while Wilmon should have spent some time with Luthen rather than Saw if they wanted to depict him in a more sympathic light.
They could emphasize the angle of Luthen's motivation for destroying the Empire being to make the galaxy a place where kids like Kleya and Wilmon could live in peace like with his "burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see" monologue.

>>96357381
Luthen's plan for Ghorman was the exact same plan as the ISB's, chief difference being the different intended outcomes. He's pretty evil.

>>96354494
I saw Darksaber in a used book store recently, though didn't buy it then since I actually went there to buy a book about architectural styles. I probably should go back and pick it up.

>>96356723
>I take in the stories I want, ignore the ones I don't, and seem to live a much happier life than some of the noisier shitposters around these parts.
Sounds solid anon. I don't think that there is no value in media critique and debate, but I think that too many end up consumed by it and end up forgetting what they were defending in the first place. The old EU was very "play in your own pool" and that reduced friction between the different crowds, the primary issue with the current state of things seems to be the constant treading of toes to "fix" the product for the market and it just leads to more aggressive splintering because when you have corporate overlords saying that the stories they put out are an established canon that all works together and then said material is jarring and schizophrenic due to the cold realities of multiple creative visions clashing you are going to have tribes advocating for their favourite take. Look at the TFA vs TLJ vs RoS vs TLJ novel version vs RoS novel version stuff for an example of what I mean. In the old EU you had the GSN system, where accepting G canon was the price of entry, S canon was taken up based on whether you liked it or not but was broadly considered canon if it didn't contradict G, and N canon could be enjoyed just fine but was pretty explicitly not meant to be taken as actually part of the world. Honestly, Disney dug themselves quite the hole when they tried to establish a new canon where all of their products would fit, and you can see that pretty clearly in how the works that they have greenlit outside of canon (Visions comes to mind) are rarely complained about, even if some of those stories badly tread on toes of agitprop producers of all stripes.
tl;dr liking what you like is generally a better way to live, although there is still some value in explaining why you don't like what you don't like, and the camel is the horse designed by committee.

>>96358489
>I have no idea what kind of weird ass distinction you are trying to make
He's arguing that the Empire was, as originally conceived, the Disney villain sort of evil. Yes, the steal. Yes, they kill. Yes, they are oppressive and discriminatory. But even the Empire's single greatest act of villainy, blasting Alderaan, is kept at arms-length for the audience. You see a planet explode. Obi-wan feels the spiritual enormity of the crime, Leia gives you the regular pleb's reaction to it, but you don't have your nose ground into the fine details of what a planet-wide extermination like that would actually look like as billions of people die. You don't see a single death. The blast itself is instantaneous we must ignore Rogue One's soft-rework of how this functions if we're being honest, eliminating even those poignant moments from various Japanese depictions of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki where people briefly try and escape the inevitable before being crumpled up like dolls, burned into near-unrecognizable things, or essentially erased from existence.

Even when they kill Beru and Owen, we only see their charred skeletons, we are not made to watch as they desperately plead for their lives, and then presumably just to be put out of their misery, before the degradation of their flesh renders their cries inhuman and indecipherable.

Everything the audience sees in Andor is on-brand for the Empire, because it's on-brand for what actual evil people do. But fictional evil people, especially in settings like the one Star Wars was conceived as, are indeed kept cleaner, by disassociating the audience from the nastiest parts of the Empire's villainy, you get fairy tale bad guys who we know are evil, but who we never see do anything worse than sneer at people they dislike and kill enemy combatants. It can be jarring to bring them down to Earth with more presonal, more intimate forms of wickedness, even if it makes logical sense.

>>96360412
I get what you're saying, but I think you're missing the mark.

I think it's less about obfuscation, more that Tony Gilroy as a director, well he didn't exactly take it in a new direction, what he did was offered a different perspective of the same material. That ground-level perspective.

I think that's why for instance he decides to have the bad guys not wear stormtrooper helmets in most of Andor. We see stormtroopers of course, but we actually see grunt work done more by lower level guys, like the corpo cops, or like Imperial riot troops, or the imperial officers. To obscure the evil less- to make it less faceless. To show that the bad guys are human, and them being human doesn't make them less human.

So that is indeed a difference, but it's far from a break from the material. It's the exact SAME material but viewed from a different perspective or lens. I suppose it's kind of the difference between say the Dirty Dozen and Schindlers List. Same subject matter, but different takes on the same material. It's a real thing, but it's not something you can really critique. Like or dislike, but it's like complaining about the switch from Film to Digital. One doesn't make for a better story than the other, even if you might prefer one to the other.

In that vein - I don't think covering sexual assault is too mature for Star Wars. I think that's a double standard when genocide and war are somehow considered less mature. That sexual assault is a worse crime than killing someone.

In my opinion- I do think the word 'rape' shouldn't have been used. Not that there needs to be a euphemism, I just think that Star Wars is more about presenting the morals and letting the dumb-ass audience piece it together. Like- hey. Dumbfuck audience. Do you need it spelled out to you that the Droids are all slaves and have no rights in this universe? Was that not immensely obvious to you from the fact that they are treated as property?

>>96361777
You make sound points. Admittedly, having not yet watched Andor S2 myself, and not being anon, I can't say with any kind of confidence if I think this already-infamous scene would feel out of place in the broader world of Star Wars. What I can say is that, looking at a similar property which I am familiar with, it would feel out of place in The Lord of the Rings.

True, rape is a smaller-scale crime, from an objective perspective. A single act of rape, or a single act of murder, may hurt the same number of people, but in a strict sense murder is worse because it terminates a life. Rape can alter it, sometimes irreversibly, but it doesn't end the life of the victim. If it did, then it would be murder too. For reasons I can only speculate as being based in ancient Christian morality, which still exerts impressive control over our storytelling even today, sex in general and rape in particular remains a subject many are squeamish about. To bring sex into a work of fiction, especially in its uglier forms like sexual assault or rape, fundamentally alters the tone of a thing.

Nice trips by the way.

>>96360412
>fictional evil people, especially in settings like the one Star Wars was conceived as, are indeed kept cleaner
2005 Empire called, they said they were raping prisoners all along

inb4 'it was just a comic', it was never canon' etc.

>>96363936
Darth Vader would have executed this man

>>96355668
>Oh, but Vader gets to be a space-fascist for two decades, and that's completely fine. I see.
Vader died for his redemption.
Reva decided she will not be like Vader just because she won't kill one kid. While, in fact, she was already like him after killing all the kids she killed before.
>Yes. Because torture lets you mind control people. And it always endears loyalty to your side. It's a great way of ensuring political loyalty. Which is why everyone does it.
Because the Dark Side is also intoxicating. And because all the Inquisitors know they have no chance against Vader. Grand Inquisitor would rather jump into reactor of a falling Star Destroyer than face Vader after a failure.
Hell, Vader has killed for less before, Reva lived longer than she had any right to even before trying to attack him. She also was far too stiff for someone being Force Choked, which is a case of bad cinematography.

I always wanted more content of Luke on Dagobah, but I guess its hard to write something as good as the scenes in Empire. Had some neat moments at least but seemed like a basic bitch story, and you can just show them Empire instead.

>>96365618
Basic kids story*

>not a jedi
>not a sith
>not entirely dark side
>not entirely light side
so what should we call ventress now?
"force user" just sounds lame

>>96365727
Something that overstayed its welcome.

>>96366002
but enough about ahsoka

>>96366013
Her too, they both should be dead by now.

>>96365727
>so what should we call ventress now?
A good friend.

>>96365727
>so what should we call ventress now?
a corpse

>>96365727
>so what should we call ventress now?
Boring Mary Sue donut OC with cringe haircut, who should've stayed dead.

>>96351945
>Part of the joy of the EU was that it came in an era of "fandom" where you only looked at what you liked. Star Wars, Doctor Who, Star Trek, all had a bunch of different story environments that people could get into while ignoring the other stories
Yeah I think this is something that was just lost on people. I feel like the concept of the "EU" was built more in things like the "essential guides" than the actual star wars stories being told which were generally self-contained and generally not particularly concerned with creating some overarching whole, neither did they expect their readers to be.

>>96364650
Vader would have killed the prisoner, scolded the officer for being distracted, then moved on.

>>96366889
When I was younger the local library had the Star Wars Encyclopaedia. It was a late 90s effort to collect the lore in the films, books, comics, games and anything else in one reference document for notable characters, ships, planets, organisations and so on. At the time I was reading a mix of YA books like Young Jedi Knights, the various trilogies and duologies that were all the rage in the 90s, playing some of the video games... All out of order. It didn't matter, I just enjoyed what I enjoyed, hunted down more stories from authors I liked and so on, but the Encyclopaedia was the text that bound stuff together for me. I never read the comics, but Exar Kun and the Qel-Dromas were familiar enough to me that I didn't feel lost when they came up in passing in a video game or something.
Now people are very dedicated to compiling "chronologically accurate read orders" and "essential/advised/non essential reading for X era" type lists and guides, I remember my experience first reading X-Wing went Bacta War, Rogue Squadron, Wraith Squadron, Wedge's Gamble, The Krytos Trap, I, Jedi (I count it as part of X-Wing sue me), Iron Fist, Solo Command, Isard's Revenge. Only the last three books and Wedge's Gamble -> The Krytos Trap were read in remotely correct order, but it was fine, books were fun and I enjoyed them. The spoilers weren't the biggest deal because the joy was in seeing how the plots played out and enjoying the character development, not some unspoiled "experience" of plot twists and gotchas. Obviously I would rather read things in order where possible (I read the Thrawn and Jedi Academy books in order, I read the Dark Nest books in order, I read Legacy of the Force in order) but things were a lot more freeform back then in fandom, my experience was not remotely uncommon.

>>96365727
should have been an ayy

>>96362035
It highlights the moral hypocrisy of an already despotic state. The question is the scale of the atrocity and how normalized it is.

Is the privilege to rape, sell slaves off to Hutt cartels to be sexually exploited while the Empire pockets credits and does nothing to redress the injustice only for the officers or for the grunts? Do Inquisitors rape force sensitives as part of the long line of abuses that turns them to broken in tools of the Empire.

That is is why I am fine with how S2 Andor handled things.

>>96366262
>A good friend.
See Cal, the Dathomirans are shapely, flexible, and trained in secret hand-holding techniques that far outmatch any cheap Twi'lek or Zeltron.

>>96365727
Remember that schizo's deserve to be beaten senseless

>>96365190
By that merit Episode IV has bad cinematography. Vader comes a rebel and throws him against a wall where he then plays dead cause you can see the actor shielding his head.

just picked up the old WEG tramp freighters, anyone actually run that kind of civilian freight crew campaign?

>>96333551
>>96333663
Season 1 of Resistance was just ass, but season 2 was pretty good. I especially liked how Tam stuck with the First Order for a really long time. A hero defecting to the evil side because she felt underappreciated and she actually stayed evil for most the season. Compare that with Ezra using Dark Side powers for part of the first episode after the time skip, realizing he's going to far, and never uses dark powers again.
It did break my heart when some old battle droids got destroyed and you never see them get repaired. This is by far the latest in the timeline that we've seen battle droids and they could've been some of the last functioning ones left.

The few good points don't change the fact that this show couldn't be like the Clone Wars cartoon, this show wasn't enough to try to redeem the sequels. Honestly most of it played things way too safe and mundane, just like the movies they were based off of. For god's sake Poe just randomly gives BB8 to the main character for the first season.
You don't even get a reaction when the main character's entire family was on Hosnian Prime and he watches it blow up. He's not that shaken up though and later it turns out his family was away when it happened and they're just fine.

>>96372431
one thing I appreciate about resistance was that it was something independent and wasn't trying to be yet another clone wars spinoff or tie-in yes I know ventress was going to be in it, but they decided against it because she'd just make it a clone wars spinoff and people would only watch for her

ultimately makes it a hard sell to animation fans as at that point you only had TCW and rebels, and a double hard sell as it was ST era where ST hate was at an all time high

>>96372891
Shittress was never gonna be in it. That was debunked. ST era is terrible and deserves every bit of hate it gets and more. There is not one redeeming thing about it. Not a single one. It is entirely awful, it killed the future of Star Wars, and we will never recover from it. More so, they taint the shit that people used to like in an attempt to "fix" it. This shit was always doomed to fail, and it actively ruins Star Wars. No one likes it, except mentally ill online activists.

>>96372961
>the character who was described as "ventress if she survived into this era", who was spoken about to have been originally designed as ventress by a writer, who is named similarly to ventress' VA's first name, was in no way meant to have been ventress at one point
uh huh, sure....

>>96373132
You're desperate, ventressfag. Desperate, pathetic and embarrassing.

>>96373276
It's pablo, it might be right, it might be wrong
person A says X, person B says Y, the topic is about resistance as a whole but I just KNOW you can't resist responding

He wasn't wrong.

I require some light assistance hammering out some antagonists for an EotE game.
The very short version of it is I want to make Space Khmer Rouge.
The longer version of it is I want to have an alien heavy group existing around 10bby who's answer to the oppressions and anti-alien sentiment of the empire is to tow the party line harder than anyone else around. Doing crimes against their fellows that even your average stormtrooper would look away from.

I want them to have some superficially positive but soulessly bureaucratic sounding name that gets sinister the moment you look at it for more than a second (working with "Appointed citizens" at the moment, but it's not quite hitting the tone I want perfectly).

I want them to be mostly made up of members of the "protagonist" alien species. Something like 80% (don't look that number up I pulled it out of my ass) of villainous aliens in star wars are Weequay, Quarren, Aqualish, or one of the other small handful of typical baddies. I want this to feel like citizens turning on citizens, and so I want it to be filled with dudes like Sullistans, Ithorians, Bith, and etc. And I want them to have a leader who's like a true believer, way too pure for the evil shit they're doing, and 100% convinced they're doing the right thing; but I've not hammered out details after that (age, species, occupation) other than I don't want them to be some kind of terrifying combatant, I want them to be dangerous because of their ideas not their sick ass vibroaxe.

And lastly I need some like evil shit they're doing that still can fit the tone of star wars. These are some dark ass clone wars episode dudes but I still want to keep them within the relative tone of star wars, even if they're right on the very edge of it.

Other than those things I don't have specifics of what I want and more just asking for ideas and plot threads I can spin off into.
I'd appreciate any advice offered.

>>96374389
I forgot a major part.
I want them to have a distinct and striking piece of clothing many of them wear as an indicator of their allegiance, but I feel like checkered scarves or armbands are just a hair too on the nose.
Some kind of accessory that adds to an outfit rather than replaces it, that way their dudes in armor and dudes in plainclothes are still identifiable.

>>96374181
He was right that the Jedi needed to end, but specifically the old Jedi Order. I was hoping it would lead him to create a more relaxed Jedi Order but he has a force stroke and dies. Can't wait to see Jedi Supermaster Rey create her own order.

>>96374478
It's weird that the current thread is that Luke just fully repeated the mistakes of the old order instead of adjusting them with hindsight in mind.
I would have even been okay if they went with the old EU route and had him fuck that up a bit for a few years (those old rules, flawed as they were, were there for a reason) and cranked out a few dark jedi by accident as a result before he locked down better ones.

Everyone shits on his sequel trilogy actions but the scene in the Mandalorian where he makes Grogu pick between radical super armor and magic space sword because if he keeps a memento of his past its a sign of attachment absolutely drives me up a fucking wall because he literally used the power of attachment to save the goddamned galaxy just a few years ago.

>>96372961
They don't even actually like it. They push it because it fits their agenda, but I don't think they actually like it.

>>96374478
>>96374522
It felt like he was being poisoned by Ahsoka's presence there, despite the fact that the same Order kicked her out. Luke defeated Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader BECAUSE of his attachments, relying on his love for his father and his father's love for him to break the cycle of hatred and violence. Having him go back on that was beyond retarded but they needed to get from there to him being a loser hobo so the narrative demanded it.

>>96375877
I doubt Ahsoka did anything besides stand to the side and look smug. I feel like her interactions with Luke would just be about tales of Anakin as he only ever knew Vader. I try not and get frustrated at the absolute disgusting disservice that they have done to Luke in the sequels.

>>96375877
>>96375983
Damn Ahsoka! Made Luke search for toddlers and never marry anyone in Lucas' sequels too! I sure hope Luke at least got to plap plap plap her in every hole she's got. The dork only got to kiss his god damn sister, for fucks sake. I picture this: with every thrust, Ahsoka moans, "remember, no attachment *aaaah* remember never marry *aaaaahhh* remember children above three are too old *ohhh you're so much like ani*" Yoda's force ghost can be heard giggling in the background...

Ahsoka is the key to all of it...

Or you guys should realize already that the Jedi were right about everything, and you just fundamentally do not understand the word 'attachment' and what it entails, despite using it again and again and again.

I am convinced that filoni is jealous of andor's success

>>96376446
Maybe he should stop greenlighting awfully written shit like Kenobi or Acolyte.
Because even a random kids show was beter than these two trainwrecks, and Ahsoka only gets a pass because it had waifus.

>>96380603
barriss is proof lucasfilm shouldn't listen to TCW fans

she's a non-entity in TCW (in what, 5 episodes?) and doing simple 2+2 shows that she was executed
but noooo we have to have a boring story made about her that has a bunch of contradictions and is overall shit, oh and she's also now old and dies (maybe)

>>96380603
>>96380658
Barriss should have gone full inquisitor instead of the cop-out shit we got in Tales. She had the perfect setup for a good antagonist for Ahsoka S2

>>96376237
The Jedi were wrong about everything and Lucas is a retard.

>>96331600 (OP)
It's been a long time since a star wars RPG had an official line of miniatures. What, if anything, do you use for star wars minis in your rpg campaigns?

>>96380696
>villain who has a history woth ahsoka that will be brought up but you need to watch a cartoon to get it
it's shit, so he would have totally done it

>>96381424
Anyone who hasn't watched, or isn't willing to watch, Clone Wars and Rebels is a scrub anyway and can be discarded.
As well as anyone who hasn't read the Jedi Prince series and/or Courtship of Princess Leia

>>96355668
>Oh, but Vader gets to be a space-fascist for two decades, and that's completely fine
Vader fucking hates himself is the major difference. He isn't actively supporting the Empire out of enjoying his actions, he's a puppet for Palpatine who has lost everything. Vader's search for Luke and his sacrifice are the few things he does that are actually things he wants to do and not just him being a dog for Palpatine because there's nothing else to do. Reeeeeva meanwhile didn't regret a single thing she did

>>96358489
>It's also hilarious that people treat sexual assault as a worse offense than Anakin ethnically cleansing a Tusken tribe
Tuskens are beasts and deserved what they got. Fuck BoBF for trying to humanize them
>genociding an entire religion
Nobody denies that Knightfall is Anakin's worst atrocity
>But attempted rape is somehow less evil?
We aren't shown the destruction of Alderaan personally. We mostly see Leia moan for a second and Obi-Wan lament it before moving on. Rape is way more personal and does not fit fantasy-style content like Star Wars, it's edgy bullshit

>>96361777
>I think that's why for instance he decides to have the bad guys not wear stormtrooper helmets in most of Andor
The one good thing Gilroy did, and it wasn't original. The Imperial Army has existed since all the way back in '89 in D6 and possibly even earlier. We just haven't seen it in most Disney media because it's far easier to use marketable Stormies being retards. Though I don't think it's about showing them as human or whatever
>In that vein - I don't think covering sexual assault is too mature for Star Wars. I think that's a double standard when genocide and war are somehow considered less mature
It's not a double standard. Star Wars never gets too personal with war and genocide except when it's meant to make a fucking point. Alderaan isn't brutal, it's just one scene and a few people moaning. Order 66 IS brutal because it's meant to convey the total collapse of the Republic, a massive event. Some of the battles in the Republic comics ARE brutal because they showcase the horrendous nature of war. Meanwhile, this is edgy crap. Tell me something, could the rape have been replaced with anything equally "evil" and done the same thing? Yes? Then it's pointless
>Do you need it spelled out to you that the Droids are all slaves and have no rights in this universe?
Postmodern retarded take. Most droids aren't sentient you fucking tard, at least until Disney came along. Some are smart enough to be sentient but most aren't. And they aren't metaphors for muh slaves.

>>96382026
>>Oh, but Vader gets to be a space-fascist for two decades, and that's completely fine
>Vader fucking hates himself is the major difference. He isn't actively supporting the Empire out of enjoying his actions, he's a puppet for Palpatine who has lost everything. Vader's search for Luke and his sacrifice are the few things he does that are actually things he wants to do and not just him being a dog for Palpatine because there's nothing else to do. Reeeeeva meanwhile didn't regret a single thing she did
That's not at all the read I got. Subtext was pretty clear to me that a lot of her hatred came from self-loathing.

It's just Vader's clinically depressed, while Reeva used anger to avoid feeling that depression.

>Tuskens are beasts and deserved what they got. Fuck BoBF for trying to humanize them
I agree, how DARE someone be more than a set of stereotypes.

>We aren't shown the destruction of Alderaan personally.
OH AND THAT MAKES IT BETTER THEN HUH?

>>96382108
>The one good thing Gilroy did, and it wasn't original. The Imperial Army has existed since all the way back in '89 in D6 and possibly even earlier. We just haven't seen it in most Disney media because it's far easier to use marketable Stormies being retards. Though I don't think it's about showing them as human or whatever
The heck did you think it was for? There are dozens of close up shots of the no-name imperial goons. The rookie squad sent out into the protesting Ghormans were repeatedly and intentionally highlighted as being out of their depth and afraid.

The intention to me was clearly to portray that fascism is also bad for the fascists. Absolute loyalty is demanded without reward- those guys far as they knew were just doing their job. But they weren't told that their job was to die in order to fuel a false-flag narrative to justify ethnic cleansing.

The Empire is often described as a faceless evil, so Gilroy was giving it a face. And of course what I appreciate is he doesn't try to make it a moral equivalency or nothing. Humans can be pretty fucking evil after all.

>Tell me something, could the rape have been replaced with anything equally "evil" and done the same thing? Yes? Then it's pointless
Behold. The dimwits understanding of media criticism.

You can say that about literally anything else. Could you have given Luke a gun and have the movie be the exact same? Yes. Ergo, lightsabers are pointless, and Star Wars is trash.

>Postmodern retarded take. Most droids aren't sentient you fucking tard, at least until Disney came along. Some are smart enough to be sentient but most aren't. And they aren't metaphors for muh slaves.
Does it take effort being this stupid or do you just wake up in the morning like this?

>>96382672
>That's not at all the read I got. Subtext was pretty clear to me that a lot of her hatred came from self-loathing
Kek, "subtext" in Kenobi. Show me a single scene where that's even implied. Reeeva never suffered anywhere close to what Anakin suffered through his life and especially at his downfall, she is not a tragic villain. Stop trying to act like she is
>I agree, how DARE someone be more than a set of stereotypes
You probably think D&D orks are stand-ins for blacks, you moron
>OH AND THAT MAKES IT BETTER THEN HUH?
Yes because we don't need to see fuckign Hiroshima-esque victims bawling their eyes out or whatever, Star Wars is not like that
>The heck did you think it was for?
Andor needs to make the Empire more threatening than the average Disney product, it can't overuse Death Troopers to take away their effect in Rogue One so they make the Army the incompetent ones. Simple.
>Could you have given Luke a gun and have the movie be the exact same?
No, lightsabers are integral to the fantastical world of Star Wars. They represent the Jedi, who are completely different to the average rogue with a blaster. They are a symbol of the Force, easily the most important plot point in Star Wars. You are the dimwit here with these fake equivalences
>Does it take effort being this stupid or do you just wake up in the morning like this?
You can't even bother to respond because there is no way to justify droids as slaves. Are you implying the Rebellion has millions of slaves? Because certainly not all of their droids are as sentient as R2 and 3PO. Unless you're a Filonifag who likes every droid being a quirky faggot, then you probably think so regardless of how boring that makes R2 and 3PO by comparison

>>96382840
How about the multiple scenes of her bending over screaming? Where she's clearly not in control of her anger like say Vader is?

>Reeeva never suffered anywhere close to what Anakin suffered through his life and especially at his downfall, she is not a tragic villain. Stop trying to act like she is
I'm not acting like anything. I was arguing she's not a mary-sue, and now you've shifted talking points.

>You probably think D&D orks are stand-ins for blacks, you moron
How DARE orcs be anything other than a collection of stereotypes.

>Andor needs to make the Empire more threatening than the average Disney product, it can't overuse Death Troopers to take away their effect in Rogue One so they make the Army the incompetent ones. Simple.
There's definitely an element of 'ranking up' in threat level. I think that's why our first villains are the Corpo's who act as a vassal for the Empire. They aren't the ones actively making things worse, but they are reinforcing the system.

Of course- at the same time we got Cyrils arc. Which I have to wonder what the fuck you thought that was for. It's very clear that Cyril is a model-fascist. He loves authority, and doesn't at all question the motives of the Empire. He's not evil. In fact he's very clearly a very moral person. He however is completely wrong on who the good guys and bad guys are. And despite giving the Empire his total loyalty he's completely fucked in the ass, because it's clear authoritarians demand loyalty without rewarding it.

>>96384363

>No, lightsabers are integral to the fantastical world of Star Wars. They represent the Jedi, who are completely different to the average rogue with a blaster. They are a symbol of the Force, easily the most important plot point in Star Wars. You are the dimwit here with these fake equivalences
Yeah but you could have given him a special gun instead. And it would have been the exact same. Ergo Star Wars is badly written.

See how that's not actually criticism because of how self-efacedly absurd the argument is? Or should I be even more blunt.

>>96384374

>Are you implying the Rebellion has millions of slaves?
Yes motherfucker. That's exactly what I'm saying you fucking dimwit. That's the whole POINT! Even the good guys have slaves in this universe! Ask yourself- does anyone ever ask R2-D2's or C3-PO's opinion on anything in the story? No, of course fucking not, they're property and they don't have independent opinions. They're slaves. Their job is to do what their told. And if they get too lippy, then you're meant to wipe their memories. And nobody ever considers that this is an unjust system because it's completely normalized. Just like how nobody in the Roman Empire was an abolitionist.

About the only difference in how the good guys treat their slaves, and how the bad guys treat their slaves, is the good guys are more polite to them. Otherwise they're still treated like property- Leia got C3-PO from her parents, who in turn got them from Padme on her death, who in turn got them as a wedding present from Anakin, who in turn got them from inheritance from his mom when she died, who in turn got it from Anakin after he built him so that his mom would have to do less chores around the house.

But apparently you needed C3-PO to hold up a giant 'I'M A SLAVE IN THIS UNIVERSE' sign because this subtext wasn't obvious enough for your dimwit brain.

Oh no! Moral complexity! It turns out that in a galaxy far far away, not everyone's civil rights are respected! Not in my Star Wars thank you! I prefer my commentaries about space-fascism to be stuff that's inoffensive and doesn't make me have to think about things! That's you. That's what you sound like.

Fuck off with this bullshit, droids aren't slaves you fucking spaghetti for brains shit.