So what happened after Undertale Yellow's genoslide? What was Clover supposed to do with the souls?

>>714725229 (OP)
He took them back to the orphanage.

>>714725229 (OP)
Tell the other humans that the king of monsters is dead and the underground is ready for a cleanup crew.

So how would attacking work if you were to play as a monster in a UT fangame?

Make a kindness game now.

>>714726440
>kindness game where you have a permanent hug act
>can brute force spare everything with repeated hugs
>even asgore

>>714726050
Depends, does magic even affect other monsters

>read the last thread
>its filled with ending or other debates I missed
>welp
Okay so heres my thoughts regarding the pacifist ending.
The suicide concept wasnt a bad idea. Other games or media had suicide plotlines which were reacted positivity by their fandoms.
The issue is how yellow did its suicide was not good.

One: Getting a bunch of adults to approve on the suicide is questionable at best. Its weird that ceroba, starlo and martlet would approve a child suicide.
two: starlo and ceroba approving the suicide is especially weird when you account for their characters. Starlo helping a plan that would destroy everything he loves in the surface is bizarre.(asgore genocide plan). And ceroba helping clover to sacrifice for a cause that would destroy his species, is a bit weird.

Also ceroba reveals she thinks asgores plan would probably fail. Which means she would have thought clover potential sacrifice was meaningless. Thus making cerobas actions on the ending even further weird.
three: The suicide breaks cerobas arc. She allowed her kid (kanako) to put herself in a dangerous situation for the greater good.. This then proceeds to ruin her life

Then in the ending.....she allows something similar to happen with clover (the suicide). For a cause that would destroy his species. Thats quite a questionable ending to her arc
four: Clover himself sacrificing was strange too. There was enough things in game for clover to realize or at least suspect asgore would do something bad to humanity. And yet instead of investigating these things, clover just decides to suicide on that tower. Even when the sake of humanity is at stake
five: flowey giving up like that doesnt make sense. Asgore is right next to that tower. The souls are right nearby.
And the funniest thing is if flowey went and told clover about asgores genocide plan. Clover would have immediately went to asgore and confronted him. It would have been that simple.

>>714726854
It does. We see Dummy get hurt by its own bullets, Dummy gets hurt by Napstablook's bullets, Asgore gets hurt by one of Toriel bullets, Asgore gets killed by Flowey's bullets.

>>714726050
I don't see why it couldn't be the same as base UT or DR

>>714725229 (OP)
I'd like to believe Clover didn't took just the souls, he also hauled the coffins from those same kids and gave them the proper funeral, which then leads into Frisk going to giga avenge them and makes a true genocide where nothing's left, comes back to Clover but he's all white like he came out of a cocaine brick and gives Clover the sickest highfive while also showing bricks of cocaine (monster dust) to make big bucks.

>>714726050
I think it would be monster dependent, they all attack in completely different ways

>>714727208
All these points have been discussed but what bothers me is why Clover had to kill himself then and there. Obviously it was to have a dramatic shot of him dead next to that tree, but it makes no sense for him to even do it then and there. If he already made the decision to give his Soul to Asgore, why wouldn't he go there personally and hand it off? Instead there's just a conveniently available Soul Jar on-hand right there, something that would have at least made sense for Asgore to have ready to collect you.

The issue is undoubtedly Flowey muddying Asgore revealing the SOULs and giving him an opportunity to get them, but what stops Flowey in the actual pacifist ending from just stalking Asgore while he casually puts Clover's SOUL in the place that obviously houses the others? His inclusion really does just fuck with the entire setting.

>>714728496
flowey cant get the souls because they are inside the barrier.

>>714728496
>The issue is undoubtedly Flowey muddying Asgore revealing the SOULs and giving him an opportunity to get them, but what stops Flowey in the actual pacifist ending from just stalking Asgore while he casually puts Clover's SOUL in the place that obviously houses the others? His inclusion really does just fuck with the entire setting.

A very good point. Im going to add this to my plot hole document

>>714726440
there is someone making one with cooking as the focus called "cooking with kindness"

>>714726854
They do.

>>714728237
Human attacks are literally just the human hitting their target with a solid object. Monster attacks use bullets.

>>714728359
They're not that different. They all send bullets into the bullet box to attack their enemy's soul.

Ceroba should sink at a low mental point that makes her handcraft a 1:1 replica of Chujin's dick, put it on a dummy that looks like him and fuck herself senseless using said Dummy thinking that's her husband.

>>714729945
Would she kidnap a ghost and force it to possess the dummy and larp as Chujin?

>>714730107
I think it would be funnier if she flat out gets Chujin's ghost itself. Kanako will experience DR ch.4 ending noises (it's ok at least it is her actual parents but god damn Ceroba would be howling so loud the wild east can hear it)

Im gonna be frank but in my investigations of the ending, I dont really see the true lab plothole. Can the kanako true lab arguers point to me deep evidence suggesting true lab was the intendend ending?

>>714730494
the entire reason ceroba is leading clover to hotland is to pass by the lab, she says so after revealing that pic of kanako and the first direct mention of her in the game
and all the talks with roba talking about kanako on the way to the end of the steamworks
(pic semi related since its the closest I have on hand)

>>714730494
we know it was never the intended ending thanks to the anniversary stream, the point is that the game was leading up to it and then took a sharp turn in a completely different direction.
imagine if all that asriel buildup in UT was thrown away and flowey's true form was noelle.

>>714730437
UT ghosts aren't dead people though, they're incorporeal monsters that can posses objects. The only way she could resurrect Chujin is if she were to do it Chara or Flowey style.

>>714730809
>if she were to do it Chara style.
>ceroba makes a kid fall 50 feet onto chujin's grave and tell him to go murder the entire underground.
she would, wouldn't she?

>>714730802
>>714730783
>imagine if all that asriel buildup in UT was thrown away and flowey's true form was noelle.
>the entire reason ceroba is leading clover to hotland is to pass by the lab, she says so after revealing that pic of kanako and the first direct mention of her in the game
and all the talks with roba talking about kanako on the way to the end of the steamworks

good points. Okay I will investigate that specifically next for the plothole document

>>714730973
What if she did it with Shu? He looks kinda like him if you squint and is gullible enough to fall for her manipulation.

>>714725229 (OP)
they are all dead, they are probably just passing on

>>714731361
he'd die at the first royal guard he meets because ceroba was fooled by his act.

>>714731786
That's why she starts him on froggits and whimsuns.

Why was the roba so ce?

>>714731903
not even that helps him.

>>714732024
Maybe the Flowey method would be better then.

As a side note. What are the odds that Roba would manipulate Shu to continue Chujin's research? As previously stated, the guy is gullible and absolutely smitten with her. He also is (or at least claims to be) a boss monster. He'd make a good a test subject.

>>714731925
Cockstarved, Ceroba could be happy if she had Chujin on her bed to put so many babies in her.

The fundamental difference between ceroba and toriel is that one will shoot you in the face while the other will let someone else shoot you in the face.
For example, ceroba would be the woman who gets attached to a child. And then suddenly take out a gun. Aim that gun onto the childs head point blank. Look at the child directly in front of her. And then fire even when shes crying and doesnt want to do it.
And if somehow the gun jams, ceroba will fix the gun jam and then pull the trigger. And then she will keep doing it over and over and over until finally the gun fires.
Toriel meanwhile is the bitch who runs away. She wont shoot the child instead she will let the child go into dangerous outdoors. Where random criminals will eventually discover that child. And then do unspeakable things to that child.
While toriel sits back and then feels bad about herself, blaming someone else. Even though toriel has the means to stop this situation if she ever trully wants too.
And before someone here tries to debunk this. Note what im describing is anologus to what happened IN GAME

>>714725229 (OP)
Release them out into the world I guess
Somehow this makes him a good person

>>714732461
They're both terrible parents. It's to the point where it feels their bad aspects only exist because the plot demands it. Is there a single character which doesn't have forced flaws? Martlet?

>>714732528
Its about justice, anon. If he can't save them, then he'll make sure their killer gets what he deserves.

>>714732610
Mooch's only flaw (if you can even call it that) is stealing

>>714731041
Not going to the True Lab and doing anything with Kanako isn't a plothole, it's just that a lot of people who played this game can't handle the concept of a plot twist, even if it happens to be the most telegraphed plot twist in the world.
Ceroba acts suspicious all through the steamworks, not letting you defend yourself against what are basically just inanimate objects (so your soul doesn't become "impure" and no longer suitable for the serum), not letting you use the steamworks' mail system (so no one else in the underground will know you're with her), and the whole story about going to the lab in the first place was just a cover story she told Clover and Starlo in order to be alone with Clover in the lab, so she could take their soul and use it along with Kanako's body to finish the serum project.
However, Starlo intervenes at the end of the steamworks, and Ceroba's plan falls apart. Going to the lab and saving Kanako was never actually on the table.

So it appears people say Ceroba as "Sir Roba"
All this time I've been saying it as "Keroba"

>>714732610
>They're both terrible parents. It's to the point where it feels their bad aspects only exist because the plot demands it.
This is so painfully true. Their bad aspects feel odd for their characters. (well unsure about toriel desu)
>Martlet?
hehehe
To give a real life anology to martlet. Martlet is the big sister figure who suddenly has to take care of the family when the father and mother dies. Balancing between work, education and etc trying her best. But still failing pretty badly because she barely has any expirence, is still young, and has lots too do.
Not as bad as toriels and cerobas flaws but still somewhat bad. (though understandable bad)
>>714732912
which is why im gonna investigate it and see if you are right or wrong. Or if the kanako true lab people are right or wrong
Ive seen your guys debates

>>714732892
mooch would be in prison if she existed in real life. shes lucky shes a underground character

>>714732461
I feel like this is a bad analogy since it ignores the actual circumstance of what happens for both Toriel and Ceroba.
Also, it's hard to pull off, but you actually can get Toriel to kill you in UT, she even has a little shocked face sprite for when she realizes she just immolated a kid.

>>714732912
>Not going to the True Lab and doing anything with Kanako isn't a plothole, it's just that a lot of people who played this game can't handle the concept of a plot twist, even if it happens to be the most telegraphed plot twist in the world.
a bad plot twist is still bad writing, since the actual thing that happens in game feels really bad and like the devs rushed
it would be easier to just not mention kanako at all then

oh no, what have i done. By mentioning the kanako true lab shit, I may have started the salt debate.

>>714733067
>well unsure about toriel desu
To go back on what I said, I can somewhat see why Toriel was written the way she was. It's evident that while she cared for her own children and others she was neglectful of both Asriel and Chara.
When we find her in Undertale at that point she's gone full "helicopter parent" and decided that to ensure the children's safety she'll take on a more authoritarian role.
Only problem is that she just doesn't have it in her to carry through with that, repeating the same mistakes etc.

Ceroba is just outright retarded still.

>>714726656
>In genocide you your hugs turns into bear hugs that crush the monsters

>>714733395
It's not necessarily a bad plot twist by itself, it's a perfectly serviceable story direction for the pacifist route to take. There are certainly a few issues with the pacifist route's ending, but not going and saving Kanako isn't one of them, you just don't like the fact that the game made you think thing A was true when thing B was true all along, the most basic of misdirections.

>>714733216
fair enough, I did ignore the circumstances behind what caused these two to act the way they are.
However, it still is a good analogy on describing what those two are capable of doing. And well it doesnt paint a good picture of those two at all.
I will try to make the anology more fair though

>>714733595
the thing is that the current pacifist ending is just bad.
it butchers everyone's characters and completely ignores what caused all this shit to happen in the first place.

>>714733442
true I dont disagree with what you said at all

>>714733395
>>714733595
>>714733795
>the devs rushed
Only answer you really need here. It's not only a fangame that somewhat tries to connect itself to the source material, albeit questionable in how it achieves that, but it's clear that the second half of Yellow was running on a "first draft" that needed to be rushed out the door.

>>714733442
Ceroba injecting Kanako was stupid, but she only did that because she was put into the extreme circumstance of being pressured to finish Chujin's project while simultaneously not having adequate resources or experience to do so. If the project hadn't been given to her she never would've been put in the position to inject Kanako with the serum, and life would go on as normal.
Plus, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Toriel would be willing to do pretty much the exact same thing under the right circumstances. I mean, she lets Frisk (and who knows how many of the other fallen humans) venture out into the underground despite knowing the danger they'll be faced with, and all it took was a little convincing on Frisk's part. If the roles were swapped here, I find it incredibly easy to imagine Toriel being willing to inject a child (or let a child inject themselves) with that serum, as long as they could make an argument for it.
Ceroba and Toriel aren't really malicious, but they're both really easily pressured into doing things that they should be thinking twice about.

>>714732229
I don't know if Shu would be willing to let himself get inject with AIDS in the form of soul juice, I guess it depends on how pathetic you want to make him look
Would Starlo let Ceroba test the serum on him if he was a boss monster?

>>714733795
>it butchers everyone's characters
starlo ceroba flowey and clover did act weirdly during the ending as I pointed here. And ceroba did end up repeating a similar action that ruined her life, as i described here. >>714727208
Theres like multiple issues with the ending.

>>714733967
it wasnt the first since they rewrote roba to not just be outright evil and kill kanako for selfish reasons, but it really needed more time in the oven
tfw even fellroba was less evil than betaroba

>>714733005
cekaroo

>>714734104
>starlo ceroba flowey and clover did act weirdly during the ending as I pointed here.
I was pointing to this >>714732461

>>714734023
>she only did that because she was put into the extreme circumstance of being pressured to finish Chujin's project while simultaneously not having adequate resources or experience to do so
Okay but WHY her daughter. She could've literally chosen anyone else for the experiment she wasn't even sure would work, it's genuine retardation that she caved into pressure from her own child that didn't fully grasp what exactly the serum was.

>>714734104 (edited I was pointing to the wrong thing. Had to fix it)
>starlo ceroba flowey and clover did act weirdly during the ending as I pointed here

I was pointing to this >>714727208

>>714734223
>She could've literally chosen anyone else for the experiment
She needed a boss monster, and the only ones we know of are Toriel and Asgore

>>714732912
If Ceroba's intention was never to save Kanako then the devs should have been more clear about it. As it is, 90% of the player base thinks Ceroba intended to save Kanako, not to complete the serum, and that the twist was that she needed to kill Clover to do it.

>>714734153
I've read about the original concept myself and it's still not much better you're right.
Perhaps a way to rewrite her character while still keeping her as she is today is to simply have it be Kanako herself that uses the serum and Ceroba instead expresses extreme guilt that she couldn't be there to stop her.
Would mean that Ceroba still was neglectful but isn't dumbed down to the point she'd use her own daughter as a guinea pig.

>>714729620
Nothing's stopping monsters from hitting their targets with a solid object (like in Deltarune), and that game also provides precedence for using magic attacks in Rude Buster and IceShock

>>714734412
The devs were clear about it, she literally says that in the dialogue leading up to her boss fight in the pacifist route.
Seriously, just watch like, the first 2 minutes of this video of the end of the game and tell me if you really think the next natural story point is gonna be saving Kanako. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_HcLGBocZc&t=311s

>>714733595
>the most basic of misdirections
Anon, it spent an entire area with a new character setting up their backstory as well as establishing important characters in their life that we are assured are alive and are in need of saving. Then, when the jig is up and we're now chasing said character down for leading us on and hiding her true intentions, she suddenly goes to a completely random location unrelated to ANYTHING we've known so far. And even after beating her, we just get a throwaway line from Martlet that completely flatlines whatever investment could have been had in that plotline.

Then when the most obvious payoff to Martlet's injection is instead handed off as her sneaking into Alphys' lab, a character we've never seen until now for this story, then it is not a "basic misdirection" it is flat out terrible writing. It didn't have the balls to commit to the lore it set up for its own characters, instead sacrificing important moments in favor or bending the knee to the player's meta-knowledge of Undertale's events, which arguably worked against it since it had done a good enough job in making players actually care about the characters they made and stop caring about canon, which isn't something every fangame can claim to have accomplished.

I started this by mentioning true lab. The kanako fire rises

>>714734641
Why have you done this!?

>>714734864
the good news is the fire stopped. I think?

Is everyone calm down? No potential melties? No rage posts? Are we all good. Can we resume normal uty posting?

>>714733595
It could be a good plot twist. It just isn't. If it were properly foreshadowed that Kanako really is a lost cause and then driven home at the end that there's no saving her then it would work. As it stands, she's still alive in the lab and Clover (and later Ceroba) has the means to save her. I feel like if they just didn't put her in the lab it would work better. Like she's hooked to a life suppor machine in Ceroba's basement and the Hotland story is explicitly spelled out as a lie. And then have Ceroba spell out in plain english that Clover's soul wouldn't save Kanako. Then it could work.

>>714735053
I thought this WAS normal uty posting anon.

>>714735053
i mean what else is there to talk about that isnt just waifu posting?

>>714735132
>>714735175
so you two want to unleash the true lab salt gates? Is this what you truly want?

>>714734605
>establishing important characters in their life that we are assured are alive and are in need of saving.
Buddy, Ceroba says Kanako's in the True Lab as one of the first things she says about her. The lab suddenly being brought up in UTY like that should've been one of the first things that tipped you off to something not being right, not to completely buy into her story from there on out.
Next thing you'll tell me is you completely believed Maggie Chow in Deus Ex or some shit.
>completely random location unrelated to ANYTHING we've known so far.
She goes to New Home for the sake of circling around back to hotland, since she knows Starlo is pursuing her and trying to corner her. This is also mentioned in-game, so I'm not sure how you could've missed that.
>we just get a throwaway line from Martlet that completely flatlines whatever investment could have been had in that plotline.
The plotline was already resolved, since we see Ceroba say that she's given up on Kanako ever getting better. The resolution to Kanako's story is that she's been given up on, and she'll just be used for Alphys' experiments, which created the amalgamates.
>Then when the most obvious payoff to Martlet's injection is instead handed off as her sneaking into Alphys' lab,
Okay, this is the one thing here you actually got right, it should've been some prototype version of the serum Chujin made, like she got it from him back when he was alive or something.

>>714735113

Why the fuck did Starlo not want to kill us in Genocide?
That shit never made sense to me, seeing as how he had no problem with it in Neutral and Pacifist

>>714735235
not that guy but
>The plotline was already resolved, since we see Ceroba say that she's given up on Kanako ever getting better. The resolution to Kanako's story is that she's been given up on, and she'll just be used for Alphys' experiments, which created the amalgamates.
kanako should be furious at her mom if she ever meets her again if this is true

>She goes to New Home for the sake of circling around back to hotland, since she knows Starlo is pursuing her and trying to corner her. This is also mentioned in-game, so I'm not sure how you could've missed that.
I don't remember that dialogue, just martlet saying she "went there to throw off her pursuers"

>>714735307
>Devs didn't want to have to make a unique fight for Genocide
>Devs wanted more Ceroba
Pick on- wait a minute these are the exact same reasons!

>>714734046
She wouldn't tell him its aids. She'd say its a super serum or the precursor to a super serum that will save the monster race. She'll conveniently leave out how it kills the person its injected into. And maybe throw in some ego stroking about brave of a hero he'd be for saving everyone and helping her so much.

If he did find out that its aids, there's no way he'd take it. He'd either invent some BS reason to back out or find a way to fake taking it.

>>714735090
Kanako isn't "alive", she's fallen down, the monster equivalent of being completely brain-dead but having your body still technically functional. This is exactly the same state as all the other monster given to Alphys for her experiments, since the whole purpose of the experiment which created the amalgamates was to try and harvest the monster's souls after they died, and that required monsters that were already on the brink of death, like Kanako.
She's not on life support, the whole point of the experiment is that she, and all the other monsters involved, are supposed to die. Them coming back to life was a complete shock, as seen in the true lab entries.
Clover and Ceroba didn't have the means to save her, at least not Knowingly, no one apparently knew that falling down could be reversed like that.
>Ceroba spell out in plain english that Clover's soul wouldn't save Kanako.
Again, she says that she's already given up on trying to save Kanako, just before her fight in the pacifist route. Regardless of whether Clover's soul or soul essence *could* save Kanako (ignoring the fact that being injected with soul essence caused her to fall down to begin with, what do you think that would actually do?), that's not what Ceroba is actually trying to achieve at this point. She's just trying to take Clover's soul so she can use it's essence combined with Kanako's body to try and finish the perfected version of Chujin's serum, since she thinks she's already gone so far past the point of no return and that finishing the serum is the last good thing she can do.

>>714735113
her right uuh winghand is backwards

>>714735590
>find a way to fake taking it.
Shu drinks the Serum which has no effect on him, Ceroba is too dumb to realize that there is a difference between injecting a serum and drinking it

>>714734543
>Nothing's stopping monsters from hitting their targets with a solid object
But why would they limit themselves to just melee attacks when they have all sorts of bullet patterns? Now that I think about it, why don't the monsters in Deltarune use bullets? We see that they can because Berdly does, even Susie does during her boss fight, she loses that ability when joining your party.

>>714734641
I'm tired of this debate too. I just don't want to spend eternity arguing back and forth with someone when we both already know each other's arguments and stances and will fundamentally never agree on the subject. I'd rather just drop it and move on at this point.

>>714726050
I don't get how monsters fight each other when there's no Soul around
obviously the Soul helps Susie in her fight against Gerson because that's the gameplay but I don't really get how it make sense in-universe

>>714735590
What would Ceroba do if Shu takes the serum and he ends up falling down like Kanako? Like she pretty much manipulated Shu into taking a deadly substance, is she going to hide the body? Or will she send it to Alphys? Maybe she drops Shu fallen down body on his house so his mother or brother can find him

>>714735979
Bad news is you are part of the 4chan uty fandom so these debates will continue on for eternity. And eternity. Once you engage, you engage FOREVER
Personally i dont really have a stake in this debate. Im the guy who posted that large ending critic in the first part of the thread. And I didnt mention the true lab stuff because I dont really think about it. (tho i havent investigated it fully yet)

>>714735892
I think there is some abstraction happening in DR, tho noelle does mention berdly hit her in the face with a tornado so

>>714735764
>She's not on life support, the whole point of the experiment is that she, and all the other monsters involved, are supposed to die. Them coming back to life was a complete shock, as seen in the true lab entries.
And we, as the players, know that's going to happen. So the players know that she's explicitly not dead, and is never going to be dead, and in fact if she's not gotten out of there, is going to wish she were dead for the rest of eternity.
>Again, she says that she's already given up on trying to save Kanako,
And that's not enough. This isn't the kind of thing you can just be vague about or imply. If the soul can't save Kanako, then say so. Don't leave the player to assume it. Otherwise we get what we have, where everyone assumes it can.

>>714726050
I suppose it'd be something like the yellow soul in both Undertale and Deltarune? Just instead of firing one shot though you'd be able to shoot out patterns to emulate "spells".

>>714735307
>Canon Explanation
At that time, he felt that he was a fraud and was only playing as a Sheriff. And when the moment came, he did not have the guts to actually shoot Clover.
>Most likely explanation
The devs liked Ceroba and wanted her to have a battle for both pacifist and genocide routes.

>>714735235
>The plotline was already resolved, since we see Ceroba say that she's given up on Kanako ever getting better. The resolution to Kanako's story is that she's been given up on, and she'll just be used for Alphys' experiments, which created the amalgamates.
And that's "the good ending"? If you see no problem with this I don't know how to convince you.

>>714735235
>Ceroba says Kanako's in the True Lab as one of the first things she says about her
She doesn't say "True Lab" she just says she sent Kanako off to Doctor Alphys so she can be taken care of. This is a simple name drop, establishes a location to go, and makes sense in universe that she'd want to go there.
>She goes to New Home for the sake of circling around back to hotland
She corners herself in a random place with a tree and beats Starlo and Martlet unconscious. Martlet also establishes that Ceroba did it to throw off her pursuers, something that is speculation but also the only line of dialogue we have to work off for why she'd do thi.
>The resolution to Kanako's story is that she's been given up on
No she wasn't. Martlet literally says she'll pull some strings to get Kanako back to Ceroba. You could have Kanako literally show up and say "I got better lmao" and it'd still be a more conclusive resolution to that plotline.
>it should've been some prototype version of the serum Chujin made
I agree, even with the evidence with Kanako showing that it realistically shouldn't have worked, the rule of cool lets anythign work, much like how people don't really argue on why Ceroba just gets a transformation in True Pacifist for putting a mask on and is still somehow weaker than when she fights you untransformed in Genocide.

>>714736439
It's not the "good" ending, it's just the ending.
That's kinda the point buddy.

>>714736532
its bad writing
it would be better if kanako just wasnt mentioned at all

>>714735862
He "drinks" it, then immediately spits it out when she's not looking.

>>714733005
I've heard somewhere she was originally supposed to be a Cerberos, so use it as pronunciation guide.

>>714736668
>it would be better if kanako just wasnt mentioned at all
Outright? Or just in regards to what happened to her. I feel that Kanako is a pretty big part to Ceroba's character, shitty writing aside.

>>714736131
>will she send it to Alphys
No, there's no way she shows up to the lab with a second dead body without people asking questions. If this is instead of Kanako, then yeah that's probably what she does.
>Maybe she drops Shu fallen down body on his house so his mother or brother can find him
Holy shit, that's so fucked up. Imagine her doing that.

gentlemen heres the best way to stop the true lab debates.
Just dont engage
(will continue to engage because this is 4chan)

>>714737019
its the only way to keep the thread active t b h

>>714736017
Monster souls can't even exist outside of their body, so I wonder if they even have a soul in a bullet box. Of course if they didn't how would they know about bullet boxes or souls being the proper target of attacks? Perhaps the bullet box isn't considered outside of the body.

>>714736310
Maybe its like tempest, and you have a bullet shooting weapon that rides along the edge of the bullet box, shooting in.

>>714737114
trve, the thread demands the blood, sweat and malding tears of its posters

>>714737114
I'm sure you can find something else to talk argue about.
>>714737153
>Perhaps the bullet box isn't considered outside of the body.
That's something i've always wondered about. Is the box meant to be the "area" you fight in? Or is it just some weird mind to mind battle where the box is just a representation of that?

>>714736532
The devs tried to depict it as the good ending. Hence that whole heartfelt self sacrifice scene. Its supposed to be bittersweet, but it just comes off a bitter with no redeeming qualities.

>>714737153
>>714737293
I think the bullet box is just an abstraction, stuff isn't happening literally there (but its close-ish to what is happening)
also wasn't oldentale anon or someone else making an idea for monster vs monster fangame combat
someone even drew a mockup for it but I can't find it

>>714737293
>I'm sure you can find something else to talk argue about.
CEROBA IS BAD AND TERRIBLE AND STINKY AND HORRIBLE

>>714737293
>Is the box meant to be the "area" you fight in? Or is it just some weird mind to mind battle where the box is just a representation of that?
Its a UI element. The UI is canon to the game and as shown by the menus its possible for your soul to be in them without exiting your body.

>>714736948
She's a plot device. She's only brought up when the game wants to wring more emotions out of the audience, then she's promptly tossed aside.

Clearly Kanako wasn't taken to the true lab, she got chucked the fuck up inside the core.

Kanaclover is an overrated ship and im tired of pretending its not. Kanako displays barely any personality and character in the game. Shes barely even part of the game besides being a plot device. Shes barely even a fucking character.
Clover meanwhile is also barely a character too. Sure he has some charactertization but besides some minor stuff hes not really that much of a person. Hes more so a player vessel because he is one.
Kanaclover is a overrated ship exactly because of this. Its a ship where two of the most boring, nonexistant, barely being characters are shipped together And developers or fan artists have to put stuff in there just to make it good because if they dont, then its 100 percent nonexistant shit.

>>714737114
Either this or the floweyanon who will derail this thread beyond comprehension.

>>714737387
>I think the bullet box is just an abstraction, stuff isn't happening literally there
Why would it be an abstraction? We see Asgore destroy the mercy button physically, we see Sans attack us on the menus, Mettaton turns his words into bombs, Flowey destroys the save menu. I think its just another UI element, and its canon just like all of the UI.

>also wasn't oldentale anon
Yes, that's me. And that's why I'm interested in the debate.

>someone even drew a mockup for it
That's news to me. I know I haven't made any mockups for my battle screen and I haven't seen any made by anyone else either.

>>714737872
that kinda the point, they both deserved so much more than they actually got.

>>714737872
Correct. This is why Clover and Martlet is the one true pairing.

>>714736968
>Holy shit, that's so fucked up. Imagine her doing that.
>Ceroba with Shu's body
https://youtu.be/700agtK2FXo?t=92

>>714737857
Clover and woman, standing behind a tree
K.I.S.S.I.N.G

>>714735892
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with >>714736240. Like, in shmups, how come the bosses get the cool patterns when you just fire stuff in a straight line? Or in other RPGs, how come the playable bosses are way more powerful before they join your party? It's a matter of abstracting diegesis to simplify presentation and gameplay, congruences be damned

>>714737872
But anon, they have so much in common. They both have no personality, terrible parents, and got done dirty by the writers. And now they'll have plenty of time together in the true lab to get to know each other.

>>714737972
I dont disagree desu
>>714738004
>pedoship
no

>DRY
>cole helps brush kanako's tail.
>chujin has to remind himself that its definitely not intimate and it doesnt mean that they are anything more than friends

>>714738252
this

>>714737391
But what if Ceroba stinky and *good*?

>>714736945
>I've heard somewhere she was originally supposed to be a Cerberos,
That was just a joke that started here and later became a piece of misinformation, we don't know anything about Ceroba's name

>>714738076
For real though. Just imagine the reaction Shu's family would have. Imagine how Ceroba would feel about his mother's reaction, being a mother herself.

>>714738373
CEROBA IS BAD CHARACTER. BAD EVIL CHARACTER. SHE CANT BE GOOD. SHE CANT EVEN BE "GOOD".
SHE IS EEEEVIIIL. AWFUL. HORRIBLE. WORST CHARACTER IN EXISTANCE. FURRY BAIT. AWFUL MOTHER. BARELY ANY PERSONALITY. CHILD KILLER, CHILD MURDERER. GENERIC FURRY. NO BOOBS. PEA BRAIN. BORING. SHITTY. CHARACTER

>>714737872
I know a guy who is working on a fairly large-scale Sonic fan project, and when someone told him that Sonic franchise, you know, fucking sucks, his answer was "If something is bad, doesn't means it HAS to be bad". Sure, they are blank slates, but this means we can do anything we want with them. We can write them interesting personalities, we can write them a good and compelling relationship. That's kinda the whole point of these threads, isn't it?
> * Myself, I see a blank page as an invitation to write...

>>714738141
Fair enough, but this is Undertale. If you're dealing with such a well established trope you have to poke fun at it somehow.

>>714737872
that's good because both are pretty much blank slates to do whatever like what the DRYanons are doing

>>714737948
it isn't 100% abstracted nor diegetic, its a mix of both
hence why susie attacks by throwing ax projectiles when she is an enemy but she can't do that when in the party

>>714737948
Personally I think its an abstaraction in the sense that your soul never leaves your body, the battlebox shows a soul without a body, but in reality the soul is still inside the body, from the outside it looks like those sections in Deltarune where you have to dodge attacks in the overworld

>try to bait the kanaclover fanbase by giving a deliberate spicy take about kanaclover
>gets reasonable and calm responses instead of angry salty ones
I admit defeat kanaclover fags. You beat me

>>714738514
More 'roba for me then.

>>714738373
I bet she is stinky.

>>714738258
>chujin has to remind himself that its definitely not intimate and it doesnt mean that they are anything more than friends
Yeah, nothing wrong with getting your tail brushed by a friend. After all he got his tail brushed all the time by his roommates in college and he's got a wife now.

Hey I just thought of something, if I asked a monster to choke me or hit me or something like that, would the physical effects or damage I received from those things be affected by my defense stats or their attack stats?
Like, if I asked Ceroba to choke me, and my defense is above a certain level, would I just not feel it?
This started as a shitpost but I am now genuinely kinda curious, it's like the question about getting hard in the hyperbolic time chamber.

>>714738750
Can't receive angry responses when neither of those characters actually have character to defend. Sort of required that fans project something onto them to tell a story.

Martlet and Berdly are related

>>714738860
>After all he got his tail brushed all the time by his roommates in college
So did Kevin Nash and look what happened to him in the blistering summer of 92

>>714738750
>>714738960
we just want to see them get a happy ending, right now DRY is the most development we have of them
and I guess return to form

>>714738442
I think Wei's (Shu's little brother) reaction would feel even worse to Ceroba, Wei's brother just dropped dead one day with no explanation, he saw Shu as the biggest hero in the underground and now he is fallen down just like that, it would shape that kid's perception on mortality

>>714738683
>hence why susie attacks by throwing ax projectiles when she is an enemy but she can't do that when in the party
It might also be that Deltarune has different rules than Undertale. Deltarune so far hasn't been nearly as meta with its UI as Undertale was.

>>714738960
>Sort of required that fans project something onto them to tell a story.
yeah that was my big mistake, I chose the wrong target. welp time to think of something else
>>714739034
fair enough.

>>714739016
They are both pretty bird-brained but still shine in their respective qualities.

>>714738750
*You won, you gained 0 EXP received 36 G

>>714738759
d
e
g
e
n
e
r
a
t
e

He could totally beat prime Gerson.

>>714736948
>Free Hugs

>>714739313
dry anon, this was a great addition. Add more stuff like this. It gives her character. Lots OF CHARACTER

I have nothing to contribute. I just saw this meme recently and thought of Axis: https://youtu.be/D5Xks0xEsFM

>>714738605
>If you're dealing with such a well established trope you have to poke fun at it somehow.
I think the reason why this goes unaddressed in the official games is because coming up with mechanics for player-side bullet patterns is too complicated, or at least out of scope for the purpose of the project. Undertale plays a lot of tropes straight as well as poking fun at them, so I think this was done for practicality's sake.

>>714739280
Shu is the strongest monster that has ever lived, of course he could

>>714738726
That's actually a pretty good explanation.

>>714735307
I don't think Starlo actually killing genocide Clover and a Ceroba boss fight are mutually exclusive. Just have him use a real gun in the dual, and suddenly the plot hole is gone

>>714738936
Better question is, if she held no ill will towards you would it be able to damage you? AT is directly linked to murderous intent, so if she has no murderous intent, but just wants to play rough in bed, it might not.

>t's like the question about getting hard in the hyperbolic time chamber.
The what?

>>714738750
in my opinion they both take a little extrapolation, but once you start making a good foundation off of that their characters start to bounce off of each other really well.
for example
>kanako would probably prefer show verbal affection, given her "love you lots" contests with ceroba.
>clover, in the case of being adopted by martlet, would probably prefer to show physical affection with hugging imprinted off of martlet.
so for DRY2, im making it so that kanako doesnt really like hugs while cole can give 'em out all day.
you have a "healing hug" act and kanako tries to tell cole "please dont" as nicely as she can if you do it in the first chapter.
if you're a persistent shithead about it and max out the amount of hugs kanako can take every chapter, she'll genuinely enjoy them by the end of the game and try to tell cole that its not right to force someone to like hugs like that.

>>714739016
Imagine Berdly becoming Martlet's junior royal guard apprentice. So now she's forced to tard wrangle him while teaching how to actually do the job.

>>714739803
wait is this dry one or dry two? >>714739313
if this is dry one then yeah I support your dry two plans if the pushing is what happens if you hug too much in the early to mid chapters

>>714740087
> if the pushing
*if you add pushing in.

>>714740087
this >>714739313 is DRY1
for 2 you'll just get a "enough, cole" and he wont push it further.

>>714739018
Maybe that's why he hates humans so much. They caught him in a frisky mood.

>>714739016

>>714739739
Are you asking about the question about getting hard in the hyperbolic time chamber, or are you asking about the hyperbolic time chamber?
Either way, here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12MHqia32Vw

>>714740169
welp I found the pushing to be funny. But besides that yeah that would be a pretty good character interaction and development. Dont see any issues with the hugging mechanic you mentioned.

>>714740246
kwab

>Watching Vinesauce Joel play Deltarune Ch 3 + 4
>He made a comment about possibly checking out UTY and DRY because people recommend it as a good fangame

uh oh.

>>714740375
Oh god is that where that shitty trope comes from? DBZ?

>>714740584
NORMIES. THE NORMIES ARE COMING

>>714740665
It's an Undertale fangame anon. The "normies" were already here.

>Got any kids?

>>714740584
>DRY
current DRY is "ok" and I doubt the chapter 1 rework will be done by then

>>714740665
only good thing is this might make more people interested in kanaclover

>>714739038
That sounds like prime origin story material. Like Wei decides that he's going to honor his brother's memory by becoming a warrior just like him. Only because he doesn't know it was all made up, he actually goes and learns from a proper source, then becomes a properly skilled fighter. Then somehow he learns that Shu was murdered and sets out to get revenge on his brother's killer.

Alternatively, you could make really good drama out of that. Imagine if Wei's mother took him to grief counseling, then he ended up in the same support group as Kanako, and they became friends. Imagine how Ceroba would feel watching her daughter sit next to Wei while she shares stories about Chujin and he shares stories and Shu in return. All the while she alone knows that this is all her fault.

Or, third option, a murder mystery where Detective Columbone investigates Shu's death.

>>714740839
>only good thing is this might make more people interested in kanaclover
hehehehhehhehehehehehehehehehehehhenyhehehenyhenyhe
be careful what you wish for, you might regret it
*kanako is now trans
*clover wears a nonbinary colored hat

>>714739504
The Titan wouldn't last two seconds against piss form

>>714741136
that already has happened actually so it wouldn't be the first time
artist related

>>714741136
>DRY explicitly refers to Cole as he/him
at best they'll have to cope with it being headcanon. Then they can see how it feels when the turn tables.

>>714741136
>undertale yellow?
>you mean WOKEtale PRONOUNS!

the """people""" who did anything but a genocide run should kill themselves in real life too

>>714740646
Which trope?

>>714741206
wow he really got worse over time.
>>714741223
this can be beaten, in a very simple way. Uh hum, cole is a transmale

>>714741362
I've read a lot of shitty fanfiction over the years and the moment I see a "time chamber" I immediately drop it. Absurdly shitty trope to justify retarded powerscaling.

>>714741325
>First run was a Neutral run
>Second run was a Genocide run
Flowey the best part of the game

>>714741428
>transmale
Again, can only cope with headcanon. All trans interpretations of characters rely on being schizo and trying to see shit where it isn't, and when they're called out on it always backpedal without resistence into saying it's headcanon, to cope with the idea of people seeing it differently. I've fought in the trenches of these types of arguments, I know the tricks.

>>714741524
>Flowey the best part of the game
I made the mistake of doing the neutral run first because boy did Pacifist not live up to it.
Genocide was at least pretty cool in parts, but as I did Genocide last I think any ending would've been better than the Pacifist one.

>>714739803
>she'll genuinely enjoy them by the end of the game and try to tell cole that its not right to force someone to like hugs like that.
Vixen breaking via hug correction? Hug route?

>>714740584
I know some of you guys here watch Joel but why did you recommend him to check DRY
That game is about as finished as the first released of No Man's Sky

>>714741581
>>714741428
They will cope by saying that the original UTY clover is they/them
But its not like they are making DRY so they can just cry as DRYanon does whatever, unless they want to make their own take and game

>>714741670
We didn't, he's planning to play UTY, he just got confused whether it's Undertale Yellow or Deltarune Yellow.

>>714741480
Well, I can't recall ever seeing this concept appear in anything else outside of specifically the cell saga of dbz, so yeah, I guess that's patient zero.
Though I'd be willing to bet dbz did it more tastefully than 99% of anything else that uses it.

>>714741670
Because Deltarune itself is only half finished I imagine. I can't see Joel actually playing fangames though. These fangames only hit their best stride when interest in the original game is waning and people are really just wanting a small taste of what they once felt.

>>714741581
>I've fought in the trenches of these types of arguments, I know the tricks.
>fought in the trenches
What do you mean with this anon? Do you argue with these people a lot?

>>714741325
neutral run is good tho
best part is you still get to experience all of the boss fight of pacifist without the fake and gay ver. of Asriel Dreemurr fight

>Hypothetical argument on Clover's gender
Are they not a cowboy larper. Like explicitly stated as such?

>>714741480
DBZ is the inventor of retarded power scaling. All power scaler BS has its roots in DBZ.

>>714741751
That's pretty funny actually. Hopefully he eventually figures out (or is pointed in the right direction) that UTY is what inspired DRY. As it stands now DRY actually makes little to no sense without having played UTY first, unlike UT/DR

>>714741938
its just that people go with the kris thing where just because the gender isnt stated it means they are NB
at least most of the fandom just accepts clover is a boy, and UT itself hints the justice human was a male with the beard comment

>>714741942
>>714741806
I assumed as much. Moment a community starts getting "powerscaling" posts I just assume they're all from spics who grew up watching DBZ.

>>714740424
the healing amount also depends on the characters involved too
>everyone - maxing out the amount of hugs in a chapter will raise the allotted amount a little bit, healing is based off a % of max HP. except for kanako, the % healed remains the same for everyone regardless of how many times you raise someone's tolerance for hugs
>hugs are also meant to be an emergency heal situation, healing spells wont be as available as they are in deltarune so you're supposed to ration these out throughout a chapter
>cole - high healing from kanako, average healing from everyone else.
>kanako - start with the lowest tolerance and healing, ends with the highest
>sadie - moderate tolerance and healing, healing starts to fade with the last few
>gizmo - he just ignores the hug, healing very little. second lowest tolerance.
>mylo - another human, so unlimited* hugs!... but her healing isnt great and it just goes down a bit with every hug until she heals nothing. at which point cole will stop hugging her.
>the flower girls - half humans, so they have very high tolerance. distinctions below.
>rosa - good tolerance and great healing... but cole heals less since she's annoying, also roses have thorns so cole takes a small bit of damage.
>pedla - like everything else about her, painfully neutral. tolerance and healing sits between her sisters with no
>violetta - great tolerance and good healing, cole heals a little more since she comes across as sweet and innocent.
>>714741661
yes anon, the hug route.
you'll get something for giving as many hugs as you possibly can.

>>714740584
What's uh oh about that? Sounds like a good thing to me, at least as long as none of us trumpet from the roof tops where it came from.

Clover is a Cowboy
not a Cowgirl
or a Cowthey
or a CowIt

>>714741906
I used to. I used Tumblr in the 2010s and watching its decline was one of the most miserable things I've experienced. It's depressing watching your friends quietly burn bridges with you one by one because of all the retarded moralistic psyoping that was (and honestly still is) happening there.

>>714742008
>kris thing where just because the gender isnt stated it means they are NB
Gender being ambiguous no longer exists as a concept I suppose eh?
I find it funny that they latch onto pronouns as being an indicator of a characters gender, since those sorts are also the type to screech at you for suggesting pronouns are tied to any one gender.
End of the day who gives a shit, should just ignore them really.

>>714740839
>current DRY is "ok" and I doubt the chapter 1 rework will be done by then
Joel takes a long time to get around to playing stuff. It could be a while before he plays UTY, and a while longer still until he considers DRY. If DRYanon keeps up the pace he's been working at, chapter 2 might be done by the time Joel is actually willing to play.

>>714742006
I don't think he's planning to play DRY necessarily, he said he will be checking some fangames, and UTY was the most requested one. He'll probably play Deltatraveler long before DRY. That being said, he still wants to play Snowgrave first, and judging by how long it took him to beat new chapters, there's good chance DRYanons manage to finish their games in time.

>>714742035
ah so something like the dry chapter 2 tea mechanic but its based on hugs. and different elements than relationships.
Honestly pretty good mechanic. Would develop the interpersonal relationships between the characters

>>714741223
Imagine if people went around correcting Cole's pronouns every time someone said they instead of he.

>>714742083
They're a cowMAN actually.

>>714741938
It has been explicitly stated by the devs that Clover's gender is open to interpretation, which is why the inane Kris gender wars never happen regarding Clover

>>714742367
You make sure not to have one, alright?

>>714742092
>tumblr
>2010s
Oh wow you were in hell itself. That sounds completely fucking miserable.
Did you eventaully abandon ship?

>>714742264
Ah, I misinterpreted what you said as "he mistook DRY for UTY".
>He'll probably play Deltatraveler long before DRY.
I honestly kind of want to see this now. Curious what he would think of it

>>714741670
Because it'll take him forever to get to it. By the time he plays it, the chapter rework will probably be finished. Remember that it took him over a year to finally play chapter 1 of deltarune.

>>714742030
Okay, but getting back on topic, what if you ask a monster to spank you or something? See, ideally you'd want it to hurt a little, but not too much, not enough to inflict any real damage, but do in-universe damage mechanics in UT allow for that sort of nuance?

>>714742635
>Remember that it took him over a year to finally play chapter 1 of deltarune
Yeah, but he played chapter 3 right on release (though he took his sweet time with next episodes).

does this look like a boy to you

>>714742956
a very slender one thats in need of burger correction.

>>714742532
Yeah, I left when the porn ban happened since at that point all the artists I followed were also jumping ship. I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss it though, no other site gives you that level of customisability for your profile so everything else feels hollow in comparison. At this point I just use all social media as a heavily curated art feed and don't engage with anything anymore because of how hard Tumblr burned me. The recent Deltarune threads (before they were getting deleted) have been a nice way to re-experience those old times though.

Anyway this is off-topic so that's the last I'll say about it. I love the Yellow threads too and don't want to have them suffer the same fate as Undertale or Deltarune in discussion.

>>714726050
If you mean actually attacking and not just talking to each other using magic, I imagine both you and your encounters would be much tankier all around.

>>714742743
I don't know man. It's a game.
As another anon said damage is probably just dealt based on intent, you can tap someone with a bat in real life without breaking their arm.

DRY1 Martlet;
>adopted a human child out of the kindness of her heart
>genuinely cares for him despite being in a bit over her head
>a little scatterbrained but absolutely not neglectful
>has her shit mostly together
>house is cluttered but not a disaster zone
>fridge isn't the most bountiful, but never empty
>not wealthy by any means but has enough to buy her son toy guns
>clearly prioritizes his wellbeing over her own interests
>things likely only started unraveling due to something like her prior workplace going bust
>works long hours at new job to keep a roof over her and her son's head
>comes home late in the evening completely and utterly exhausted.
>still apologizes to Cole for not being there when he gets home
>still wakes up early enough to make her son a halfway decent lunch before heading out
>is very clearly distraught about losing custody of Cole
>to the point that her feathers are falling out
And I can't see her getting drunk with a functional stranger either.

>>714742956
>clover ketsukane

>>714743314
What she needs is a master of puzzles to help out.

>>714742743
Not only do they allow for it, I think they're uniquely suited for it. Damage is linked to intention to do harm, so she will only hurt you as much as she wants to. She could light you on fire and deal zero damage if she felt like it.

>>714742956
>they sister
I see he's trans racial too

>>714743371
okay fine here is something better

>>714743134
Kanako...

>>714743609
Cease immediately.

>>714743609
isn't that black clover the artist projecting their boyfriend into him?
I still think its stupid (but I like their kanako)

>>714743269
>not just talking to each other using magic
I think that would be ACTing with magic

>>714743502
See, that's a good answer, mostly because it's what I wanted to hear.
You know what else is weird? Ceroba can make those weird yellow diamond things that stunlock you in-game, basically magic bondage, but I've only ever seen one image do anything with that idea, that one image by signirsol.
I feel like this idea could be used for a lot of things, and somehow everyone just ignores it.

>>714743696
I have only just begun though

>>714743458
I couldn't even be mad if that happened, because unlike Sans, Papyrus would never dream of doing half the shit he did.

>>714743730
admittingly its not that bad of a kanako.

>>714743609
That Kanako is cute, but it doesn't really look like Kanako anymore.

>>714743946
Muffet would be better for bondage, she has a soul mode for it.

>>714744339
>>714744035
stackednako

>>714744450
I see the integrity genes have taken effect

>>714744450
>just throw a bucket of paint at them
>who cares if the colors work
The average furshit artist trope strikes yet again.

>>714744526
still funny people say integrity is stacked because of that one fangame, and now kanako will also be like that like in blaster master

>>714744586
the fandom really likes to add soul colored hair streaks for some reason

you know it would be really creepy having a canine monster as your girlfriend. You wouldnt be able to hide anything since they can literally sniff you. If you are lying, they will smell it. If you are scared, they will smell it.
They will smell everything

>>714744805
>and now kanako will also be like that like in blaster master
In what?

>>714744832
That a bad thing?

>>714744894
spoilers for blaster master zero 2 and 3
in 2 your android girlfriend eve gets infected by a parasite that makes her boobs grow, and in blaster master 3 after you have healed her she keeps the increased boob size

>>714744832
why would you need to hide anything
are you having affairs behind her back?

>>714744832
Why would I want to hide anything from my darling fox gf?

>>714744586
The term for it is sparkledog I think. It's really just shoving colors you think that work anywhere you want and not caring if it works. Visual clarity is a mere suggestion.

>>714744903
>>714744993
>>714745043
>anons see no problems with having the kanako version of 1984 big brother as a girlfriend

>>714745164
All she's gonna smell is that I want to huff her fluff.

>>714745078
>sparkledog
Ah that's it. I don't tend to beat down on art often but when it's something as simple as making something that's APPEALING TO THE EYE then it's open season.
I just don't know how you could look at Undertale/Undertale Yellow and take absolutely nothing from how those characters are designed.

>>714725229 (OP)
>enter UTY thread
>its the most indepth discussion UT/DR has to offer with themes of morality, sacrifice, and masterswordremix's writing through the lens of a telescope
>the thread is never not this

What makes UTY such a magnet for this stuff?

>>714745301
are u dumb?

>>714745301
autism
the game is so close to being great that it tickles everyone's autism in just the right way to want to fix it
also foxes are cute

>>714745301
We've actually played the game here. Playing a game and discussing it requires a lot of effort please understand.

>>714745301
All the other guys are busy in UTG and the regular DR threads.

>>714745301
All the shitflingers are busy in the main Undertale/Deltarune threads. It's why these threads are so slow in comparison.

>>714745428
funny thing is those shitflingers know this thread exist but they never come here

>>714744419
Eh, Muffet's ability still lets you move around a decent bit, whereas Ceroba's ability holds you in place for it's duration, but you're probably still right, since that duration is about half a second.
If Ceroba could use it for longer, which I assume she can't since otherwise she probably would've, she'd easily be the best dominatrix in the underground with that.

>>714745301
UTY fans actually played their game and are already UT/DR fans who analyzed those games to death
Theres a reason tranny jannies never delete our threads even when DR/UT is ban on sight

>>714745506
We beat back the /v/hufags last time they tried to take over one of these threads. They fear us.

>>714745557
dont get cocky now.

>>714745524
anon UTY threads have been 404'd pretty often, its why they usually happen rarely and try not to draw too much attention to themselves

>>714745557
No need to incite anything, anon. Regardless of if we cab win a shitflinging match, its better not to start one.

>>714745301
>Analyze and discuss UT/DR to death
>Move onto something else with more to discuss while schizos do their theorycrafting
It's that simple really. Also these threads used to get shit up, but for one reason or another it just stopped, see picrel

>the monster gun nigga whose stats shouldnt matter when he has a fucking gun against a human
>couldve went the full opposite of his pacifist development and went full North Star
>goes nowhere and does nothing on geno
Other than that, I loved the game.

>>714744832
Yeah, well, Clover/Cole is an unique position then. You know, being Justice soul and all.

>>714745707
devs focused too much on roba since she's sword's waifu and forgot the game was supposed to be about cowboys

>>714744832
I don't think you can actually smell/taste lying, I think Araki was making that up.
I think, anyway.

>>714745707
I assume the idea was that Starlo really couldn't follow through with his persona in the end. Seeing what was happening in the Genocide route caused North Star to crumble away entirely.

>>714745698
Fixed

>>714745781
I don't think Araki was making anything up. Zipper guy already knew Giorno was lying and just licked him to fuck with him.

>>714745698
That portrait of the family is drawn concerningly well for the style replication

>>714745698
Where does this image come from?

>>714746005
It's close but you can see what it was based on directly.

>>714744832
You're missing the point, having a canine monster girlfriend who can tell what you're feeling would actually be awesome because then they could tease you over it.

>>714746121
The mask in the back kinda looks like frieza's head here.

>>714746098
From the early threads, no idea who the artfag is but they've not posted anything else since.

I'm worried about the couple sections of my fangame ending up forgettable like the dark ruins in UTY. Any suggestions on how to avoid that?

>>714746098
>>714746352
>who the artfag is
I might recognize them but posting them would be breaking a global rule.

>>714746494
don't worry about that too much, but you can probably add at least one funny interaction, npc or joke per screen so there is something
what is the fangame you are making?

>>714746535
>>714746352
Damn, that's a shame since this is pretty good.

>>714746494
its only forgetabble because the devs didnt go back to fix its issues and etc. Remember that for some reason, dalvs corn farm exists.....when theres no sunlight or swelter stone

Zartlet FEET

>>714746535
What global rule is broken by posting an artist’s name? Is it horse show related somehow?

>>714746494
Best you can do is try to see it from the player's perspective on why it's forgettable and account for that. Not everyone is going to like what you make so you can only go about your own standards of what's memorable, as hard as that is to fight against with your own knowledge of your own creation.

Why the Dark Ruins failed specifically is just a lack of connection to anything outside of it. All characters inside it basically never leave, or are difficult to find if they do. They never get named by anyone outside of it, and even the Fun Value pillars add nothing since they're a puzzle to piece together separate from the ruins itself. You can never get the full picture of what it's trying to tell without doing multiple runs.

The one main character of the area, Dalv, does basically nothing but mumble and mutter about something vague and never actually explains what he means (and never revealing his face until the end), leaving everything about him just left as an open book with no satisfying resolution (kind of analogous to Yellow's actual ending when you think about it).

okay well im fucking bored. So uh theres one big issue in uty and even regular ut. wanna hear it

>>714746906
THIS

>>714746535
It has the style but somehow I doubt it's ShoutingIsFun, he doesn't do this kind of linework anymore. Also even ignoring that he's mostly a furfag artist now, I doubt naming him is against the rules.

>>714746921
Lay it on me

>>714746921
Alright, shoot.

>>714746992
>>714747014
why didnt asgore hire a sniper, put him in the mountain, and tell them to headshot any humans.
is he stupid?

>>714746986
Well how old IS this image. Because even I had my doubts but he hasn't exactly been strict with linework over the years and tends to fall in and out with specific styles.

>>714747060
outside the barrier? he couldn't
inside? that is a good question, if monsters have the technology to make robots they could make weapons, which would be more effective to kill humans than magic is
unless it is something like human souls can only be extracted if the human is killed by magic or something

>>714747205
it is over a year old

>>714747205
It was around when the Yellow threads were new, so somehere in 2024. Even a year ago Shouting's lineart has been much thinner than that, and I don't think I've ever seen him attempt style emulation, let alone pixel art.

>>714747060
>unattended child gets domed by sniper
Now the sniper has to run all the way to the kill before a random passing monster notices a floating human soul and absorbs it to become super saiyan

>>714747338
Well it's got me stumped though. Maybe I was looking too deep into the anon design not like any other board here still even uses anon.
I had a few other guesses but nothing concrete, suppose this will just be another uncredited piece to add to the pile eh.

>>714747536
>suppose this will just be another uncredited piece to add to the pile eh
such is the nature of drawfags here. I think the only artist from Yellow threads that is known by name is Signirsol

>>714747282
>unless it is something like human souls can only be extracted if the human is killed by magic or something
shrimple
guy with sniper rifle shoots a human but doesnt kill them. They get a massive injury. Then monsters show up with magic to finish them off.
Or if asgore is too humane to do this
Guy with sniper rifle sleep dart gun appears. Aims at the human child. The child goes to sleep. Then collect the human. GG
>>714747421
okay so just get a monster team where theres two monster snipers and the rest are monsters who engage the human.
gg

>>714744526
>>714744805
>Kanako absorbs integrity's soul and also steals her breast growth
Talk about an investment

>>714744805
>still funny people say integrity is stacked because of that one fangame
I am completely out of the loop, what fangame?

>>714747060
Asgore doesn't want to kill the humans at all. He's just doing it to keep up appearances so the people will be happy. He sandbags at every chance he's given.

>>714748015
UT symphony, this is what their integrity sprite looks like

>>714747683
>uh, delta 1 to central
>send traffic delta 1
>we bagged the kill but delta 3 accidentally uuh absorbed the package in transit and now he's acting a bit quirky

>>714747536
>not like any other board here still even uses anon.
/trash/ does

>>714748139
Front facing sprite almost looks fine beyond the weird sizing of it but whoo boy those side sprites.

>>714745707
Starlo not getting a genocide fight is definitely the biggest sin this game, right next to the true pacifist writing
at the very least tho, I have zero regrets killing Ceroba during genocide, I feel more regrets towards Axis than her if anything I have a soft spot towards robots characters in games
>>714745881
the easiest way to fix this is by just pull a switcheroo, make Ceroba take the bullet during the duel segment so she can protect Starlo
Starlo realize if he doesn't stop Clover, more monsters would die
then he finally commits to his North Star persona to stop Clover's genocide and bring justice to monsterkind

>>714748175
>Human soul passes the will save when getting absorbed
>Its nat 20
>Human soul is now in full control of an already strong monster merc's body

>>714748338
sword wanted a geno roba fight tho cuz she is his waifu

>>714746604
If he's supposed to be crazy, an easy fix would've been to say he's gluing the corn to fake stalks.

>>714748338
Sounds kino. I can imagine Starlo slipping fully into his North Star persona and coldly telling Clover that if he wants justice he'll give him justice.

>>714748338
Starlo's Geno fight could easily be lore accurate to him being a wimp if you just pile on Ceroba as a support character in the fight using the same magic she does in Pacifist to protect Clover from taking damage. Starlo does all the fighting with the lassoing and whatnot while you have to take down his shield. I don't think anybody has actually done an actual 1 v 2 in these fangames aside from the meme of having the ghost of a character throwing an attack in once in a while.

>>714748139
Integrity is a NIGGER

>>714748569

>>714748438
actually an idea has dawned on me
>make starlo (+ feisty?) geno fight in wild east, roba is nowhere to be seen
>you kill starlo but the gate to the steamworks is locked, you search around the town to find the key to the ketsukane estate
>go in and fight roba there, and she has the key to the steamworks
would fit both and you visit the estate during geno too (which could have no music playing at all, maybe roba could even be in kanako's room for the extra gut punch)

>>714748175
>>714748374
KEK

>>714748374
>Human soul is now in full control of an already strong monster merc's body
Now there's an idea. puppeteering monsters using the Soul akin to DR.

>>714748723
that'd be cool.
would also let the devs add some geno inspect text too
>its a sink, piled high with dishes
>...
>you're above that life now.

>>714748134
FOOL THEN HE CAN JUST
>order sniper to use a tranquilizer dart gun
>its a sniper tranquilizer dart gun
>the human goes to sleep
>the human is brought to asgore.
>asgore locks the human somewhere for safety
<no one gets to die
GG

>>714746582
>what is the fangame you are making?
I'd rather not say to avoid accidentally spoiling anything. My main worry is that most of the characters in the first area are largely irrelevant to the wider plot. I'm not too worried about it being boring, since I think the characters are pretty funny.

>>714749020 (me)
oh wait does asgore understand reset mechanics or is it just deja vu

>>714749023
>My main worry is that most of the characters in the first area are largely irrelevant to the wider plot.
Nothing exactly wrong with that. I'm sure you can pick one or two that do remain relevant or have connections to another one from outside that starting area.

Just a random thought, what if Chujin and axis was discovered/caught/seen/etc when they killed integrity. How would everyone react and how would it impact the story for yellow?
I image that the underground will see him as a hero, Chujin loving it at first, but then the weight of what he has done will slowly begin to dawn on him, the soul is gone so no vac, asgore unsure what the fuck to do since the man he fired just did what alphys calmed to do, and alphys being more of a mess. as for what happen after IDK?

>>714749135
I think he knew due to the DT experiments gaster did

>>714749023
As long as they're entertaining and not a nothingburger even within their own contained area, then you're still doing fine. If you're really worried, you can always try to have something in a later area tie back to them in some way. People only ever remember the Spider Bake Sale in the ruins because it helps you bypass the Muffet fight later on, and they're just two cobwebs that sell you two relatively mediocre items.

>>714749135
i think he might have some level of understanding
in UT pacifist you can tell him how many times you've died to him and he reacts appropriately.
do keep in mind that the most determined person in the underground can reset, which would be him.

>>714749020
>>asgore locks the human somewhere for safety
>Your_Best_Friend.ogg progressively gets louder

>>714747698
>that shirt cut

>>714749185
>>714749185
Then that means he knows the tranqulizer plan would fail since resets exist
welp that explains why he didnt do snipers.
>>714749292
also yeah theres flowey too

>>714749374
this comment was for you too >>714749247

>>714748441
very good idea anon. Why didnt the devs think of that.
Like that just works a lot

>>714748531
I've got a boss fight planned for my game that's basically that. Character with Sans tier stats (and no hax) and a character with absurdly high DEF doing a 2v1 boss fight against you, where the tough guy keeps taking all the hits for the weak guy, while the weak guy does all the attacks.

>>714749578
>you take a look at the corn field
>the stalks are regular sticks painted yellowish green and the corn is made of plastic

>>714748939
The core premise of Oldentale (I would've made a funny coment with a picture of Racter, but I still don't have a good sprite for him).

>>714749887
perfect. Its perfect

>>714749020
He still has to kill the humans when he can, otherwise people would get suspicious. So he just makes it so he very rarely ever encounters a human by filling the guard with morons and putting the most incompetent ones in places humans are likely to be.

>>714739034
What is DRY Kanako hiding in her drawer that she doesn't want us looking inside, aside from the obvious.
She's gotta be the roaring samurai

>>714749135
Asgore knows about saving and loading at least since he isn't shocked when you tell him he's already killed you before.

>>714750029
>What is DRY Kanako hiding in her drawer that she doesn't want us looking inside, aside from the obvious.
Her collection of socks of course
Or maybe her diary where she writes all her smut fanfiction between her and cole

>>714750316
she hides the diary under the socks

>>714749154
Chujin would be hailed as a hero. Even if Asgore doesn't like what he did, the monsters are at war with the humans, and he did it specifically to protect the monster race. So he'd have to give him some kind of official commendation for patriotism.

Afterwards people would start taking Chujin seriously. Asgore might be pressured by the populace to put Chujin in the royal scientist position, or at least fund his robot research. If he does, I could see him hiring Chujin then telling him to complete some intentionally impossible task so he can keep him busy and prevent him from causing any further harm. If Asgore doesn't hire him, I am sure someone else would. Hell, he might even be able to go into business himself with the reputation he's garnered. I'm sure if mercenaries can make a living in the underground, that robotic security can to, especially when said robot has done something no monster alive aside from Asgore can do.

>>714743458
>>714743996
>Cole and Kanako come from the Chapter 4 Dark World
>Cole gets a call right after from Martlet with her asking him in a panic where the hell he's been
>Cole and Kanako realize she wasn't even in the Dark World all this time and go back home depressed
>They come home to see Martlet and Papyrus working with a crossword puzzle
>Papyrus jovially introduces himself and says he's glad they're alright
>Welcomes them and asks if they want to test out the puzzles he and Martlet have been working on the whole day
>After Kanako leaves, Papyrus says he left his patented homemade spaghetti for Clover to eat
>He actually did this
>Instead of spending the night alone in their bed like Kris, Clover decides to join in on the fun
>The Chapter ends on a far more hopeful note because Cole's happy Martlet's finally gotten a win

>>714745301
Unlike Toby Fox himself, the fangames' authors are not playing 5D chess with their fanbase. Everything's straightforward, and therefore either straightforwardly good or straightforwardly bad.

>>714750029
Its a magazine with this on the cover. The edges of the pages are suspiciously sticky.

>>714750776
>kanako...
>y-yeah cole?
>i am actually going to kill you.

>>714732610
Toriel's flaws are perfectly in character and make her a very realistic (and terrible) character. It's time to let go of that demo/ruins wholesome goat mom image of her because that's not really her full character.

>>714750639
I remember in another thread, someone wrote something similar and it ended with
>You take a frozen brick of spaghetti from the fridge and heat it in the microwave
>You take it out of the microwave and it retains its shape
>they really are perfect for each other

>>714750639
>cole wakes up
>kanako's outside yelling
>"COLE! GET DOWN HERE!"
>slightly slower move speed and things are a little blurry because he's still tired as fuck
>martlet and papyrus fell asleep on the couch, a woodworking show is on
>get outside
>"cole what were you doing all night?"
>"puzzzzles."
>"well i found a dark world."
>"tthiss eearly?"
>"COLE! IT. IS. NOON."
>he snaps awake, screen blur gone
>"it is?! how'd i sleep that long."
>"you just said it cole, puzzles."
>"whatever, lets go and seal the fountain"

>>714744450
I do like the idea of a Kanako showing traits of the blue SOUL human.
Maybe not via neon hair tho...

I like to imagine all the fallen humans would have their own towns in Deltarune's universe full of the monsters they encountered in their own respective stories

>>714748438
based
fuck starloniggers
should have made her the geno final boss too

>>714750954
And yet for some reason toby made accepting toriels adaoption as the key to the "best" ending. And also made the final scene with frisk, one where toriel puts pie next to frisks bed.
I dont understand this. Shes bad yet accepting her adoption is the key to the "best" ending?

>>714751002

I have a lot of kino ideas for undertale blue but it seems like people are making one already.

>>714751279
>And yet for some reason toby made accepting toriels adaoption as the key to the "best" ending. And also made the final scene with frisk, one where toriel puts pie next to frisks bed.
>I dont understand this. Shes bad yet accepting her adoption is the key to the "best" ending?
You can tell her no right there and then and nothing bad happens and no substantial changes happen to the ending, did you actually play the game or did you watch a Youtube playthrough of it?

>>714751342
just make your own take.

>>714751342
a lot of people are making their own takes on all colors, but pretty much none of them will make it to the finishing line
just do yours, if you do it first it will be used as a standard

>>714751175
Just say you like her breasts tripling in size.

>>714751342
It really is a two cakes situation here. There are already two UT Orange games and I love both of them. Wildfire may have the better soundtrack and art, but Naranja is really funny and is closer in look and feel to Undertale proper. Go ahead and make your game, anon. Worst case scenario you learn a new skill.

I think Wildfire might have the best soundtrack out of all the currently unfinished soul prequel fangames. Just listen to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Bw7QNhAwU I had to stop playing and listen to this run through twice when it first came on.

>>714751402
tripling?
no, no. of course not.
thats too small.

>>714751350
Its been a while since I played it. Welp, I got the info wrong.

>>714751776
I like the way you think, anon.

>>714748517
what was genuinely the point of that pic and the "Starlo having a crush on Ceroba" plotline?
they could've easily just remove these and nothing would change to the main story and their relationship

honestly makes me want to do a rocker zartlet pic

>>714752016
It plays into his sudden and frankly retarded hatred of you out of nowhere if you kill Ceroba at the end of her pacifist fight. Even after having her act shady in trying to capture Clover and kicking his ass to the point of knocking him unconscious, he wakes up to see you killed her and somehow blames you as if Ceroba was completely innocent in all that. The only possible explanation is him being a hardcore simp for her.

>>714752039
Why is she with Kris?

Be frank with me. If toriel was put in cerobas situation, would she have injected asriel.

>>714752321
she would be considerably less crazy about Asgore being dead that's for sure

>>714752321
No. She doesn't hold Asgore in nearly high enough of a regard to even think of something like that.

>>714752375
>>714752392
okay then let me rephrase it since toriel doesnt really fit in the ceroba situation.
If toriel was put in a situation where injecting someone would be seen as good for the kingdom. Mostly guaranteed good for the kingdom. But it could still hurt someone. Would toriel do it?
(I dont think she would do it)

>>714739073
Nigga have you even PLAYED chapter 4

We can agree that it's kinda stupid that Starlo shows up to the Genocide dual with fake bullets, right? Let's assume that Ceroba's fight is still the main event, but Star still challenges Clover at the town entrance. Which one of these endings is best if Clover lets him shoot?
>Star one-taps Clover, who takes 999 damage for getting out-cowboyed and dies instantly. Flowey mocks Clover, of course.
>Starlo misses. He admits his hands have been shaking with fear non-stop and laments that no amount of pretend prepared him for the real deal.
>Star lands a hit that does about 25% damage. Upon seeing that the shot didn't kill, Starlo basically gives up and admits he never thought he'd even get this far and knows he doesn't have a real chance to win. He just asks Clover to get it over with. This decreased health carries over into the Ceroba fight, at least the first time.
>Same as above, but a second after he notices Clover isn't dead, he starts fanning the hammer and can kill Clover if he is not interrupted and gunned down. Flowey REALLY mocks Clover if he dies at that point.

I don't care

>>714752016
I suppose it was meant to show how divorced from Starlo his North Star persona was.
He pretended he wasn't that person anymore.

>>714752705
I think either the first or fourth. First probably is most clean because, unless I'm misremembering things, items in UT only heal magic damage and not physical damage (eg. regular bullets)

>>714752705
Combination of all four could work.
>Star attempts a one shot kill on Clover but ends up only grazing him
>Star begins to break admitting he never had it in him but mid sentence he manages to muster up one last attempt to gun down Clover

>>714753087
I'm assuming he'd use the same bullets that he uses in his normal fight. I don't know if those are "real", since they don't do nearly as much damage as one would expect from bullets but he claims he only has one left at the end of the normal fight.

>>714752703
I don't remember any UI fuckery in chapter 4.

>>714753268
Weird Route has the Soul use a dialogue option to teleport itself into the room from a closed ventilation shaft.

Its kinda depressing when you realize kanako has less character than chara and asriel (im assuming narachara is real)

>>714753338
There's also Chapter 3 where Tenna and Rouxls make you ACT.

>>714750454
>Telling him to complete some intentionally impossible task so he can keep him busy and prevent him from causing any further harm
Either Chujin somehow achieves the impossible, get himself killed, or word get out/something goes horrible wrong which puts Asgore in an even worse position then before.

>If Asgore doesn't hire him
I think this would be Asgore go to, but as soon as word of other trying to hire Chujin or worse chujin plan on not only building an robot army, but making more improvements then he would be force to act.

>>714753363
>im assuming narachara is real
Don't see why it wouldn't be.
Kanako as a character is more a means to an end for Ceroba's character.

>>714753363
it's funny

>>714753441
>means to an end for cerobas character
a literal plot device
>>714753458
its grim

>>714753441
nta but I don't believe in the actual narachara theory of it being prevalent everywhere. on the genocide run though, it's very obvious Chara is taking over the narration.

>>714732461
Toriel isn't pants-on-head retarded like 'roba, but I have to agree they never explain why she let those humans go on alone. She ended up leaving and going all the way to new home in the end anyway, she could have done that at any time. It doesn't reflect well on her at all, but it's shrugged off until Deltarune.

Also nobody was keeping an eye on Asriel and Chara.

>>714753546
Ah I see. There is the argument to be made there's a few spots in the other routes where the narrator isn't Frisk like certain ACT dialogue or item descriptions.

>>714751279
>yet for some reason toby made accepting toriels adaoption as the key to the "best" ending
Undertale's "perfect" ending is so unbelievably forced where despite all the logistical problems of the pacifist ending, everything just works out. A lot of Undertale's framework is pretty poorly written honestly, where the monsters are constantly painted as being super kind and could do no wrong. Deltarune is a lot better in this regard

The other day I thought about how monsters greet each other by firing bullets at each other's souls. Toby said "oh the monsters don't know you're human, this is just how they act" to excuse the fact that if they did know what they were doing, every monster you'd face would be trying to kill a child which would make them look bad but this has its own host of problems.
This cultural difference could be a massive issue where they accidentally kill humans just by trying to say hello. If you aren't expecting it, a few bullets can easily take down a level 1 human (which pretty much every human would be). Suddenly this brand new race is killing people, possibly absorbing their souls which could permanently fuse one of your loved one's to the body of a frog monster, and the "monster ambassador" meant to stop this madness is an 8 year old kid.

>>714752528
No, I don't think she would. Toriel's crime is being a bitch and a whore. Only Ceroba could do something that criminally negligent.

Actually on the topic of narration.
Anyone played this mod for Undertale? Is it worthwhile at all?

>>714753338
Oh yeah, that. I might be stupid if I forgot that. Its still a lot less of that than we had in UT, and keep in mind that specific instance was with the UT user interface, since DR's UI is only present in the dark world.

>>714753627
There's definitely a case for it, but after seeing Deltarune the main argument people had about the perspective of the narration is kind of dead since Kris is referred to in the second person by himself most of the time, with only very mild distinctions between You and Kris in the weird route. Chara could easily be there the whole time, just not literally commenting on everything.

>>714753773
I played it, it's pretty fun and comfy, and Chara and Clover have some cute moments. I'd definitely say it's worth a go, a lot of it pleasantly surprised me.
My main negatives are
Clover's a bit of a goody-goody two-shoes, though since UTY's pacifist ending was canon, I guess he'd have to be
and
After the Asriel fight, something so unbelievably stupid happens that nearly soured my mood on the whole experience
Still definitely worth a go, only bother to do pacifist though, genocide really doesn't change much since they both stop talking on that route.

>>714752705
maybe...
>shot does one damage
>starlo quickfires off four more shots, one each still
>clover raises his gun
>starlo fires off the last shot and deals 2 damage
>enter a proper battle
>tense music plays
>he fires six easy to dodge shots every other turn, and has to waste the other turns reloading
>each hit, his bullets gain +1 damage
>he has a monolog about how he's actually terrified and that he's not a hero... but he has to try.
>but each hit from clover deals a sixth of his HP, enough to get him in one turn if you land all the shots with the true revolver
>killing him prompts >>714748723
>you hit 1HP and he runs out of ammo.
>you can spare him in this state, if you do he'll decide just letting you make your way to asgore would be for the best.

>>714753418
I just want to know what impossible Asgore would assign him. I don't think he'd stick him on the soul research with Alphys since human souls can be used to do very destructive things. Maybe he tells Chujin to develop a way to destroy the barrier through mechanical means.

>>714753554
Yeah toriel isnt retarded but shes very negligent. She just lets the humans die. She even let frisk die except for the pacifist ending. Hell toriel even failed to prevent charas and asriels suicide pact, as you said.
Ceroba issue meanwhile is not only just straight out retardation. But also shes just willing to do the dirty stuff. Shes somehow, even after bonding with a child, even after looking at that child straight in its eyes, still be able to kill them. And then try to do that over and over.
The key difference between toriel and ceroba is one has flaws of negligence while the other is willing to do some really fucked up stuff.

did the dev of deltarune yellow already spoil the plot or can theories still be made?

>>714753721
I said this before and I will say this again. The logical outcome for the underground is a banana republic.
Human corporations will come in and dominate the monster nation. Cultural differences which will cause certain incidents would force monsters to concede stuff. Frisk wouldnt be able to realistically solve these issues since they are 8 years old. Asgore is asgore.
The logical outcome for monster kind is a literal banana republic. Where the lands would be exploited for gold

>>714753721
>The other day I thought about how monsters greet each other by firing bullets at each other's souls.
This keeps getting thrown around, but its simply not true. There's no evidence that they aren't just trying to kill you.

The library books say they can make greeting cards out of bullets, not that them stabbing you and lighting you on fire is just them saying hello. We see that monsters are more than capable of making bullets that don't hurt you. So the only logical answer for why they keep shooting you with bullets that can kill you is that they want to kill you. The only exceptions being monsters that are so retarded they can't understand that they're killing you like Vulkin and Temmie.

The reason they want to kill you is that your soul is their ticket out of the underground and they feel escaping is the only way they'll ever be happy. So they feel obligated to kill you.

>>714754302
He hasn't spoiled anything, but there really isn't much theory bait in the game.

>>714753773
I dunno but the art is neat

>>714754459
Might not even be the soul they want. Maybe they don't actually know you're human, at least the majority don't know, they could just be looking for LV and you seem small and insignificant enough to be fodder for that.

>>714754616
starlo is the outlaw. Change my mind
(no seriously you cant because everything currently points to him.)

>>714754616
there is
you just haven't searched hard enough

>>714754459
Most of the monsters don't even know what a human is and just think you're another monster. The ruins monsters have no idea what you are, people like snowdrake, icecap, they definitely seem aware but do you really think they're trying to kill you to escape? Shyren and Aaron literally just sing or sweat on you and it kills you, that's 100% an accident, an accident that would have massive diplomatic consequences on the surface
The only exceptions are really some of the dogs, the royal guard knights, and the core mercenaries

>>714754659
Sadie

>>714754810
SADIES CLEARLY A RED HERRING
(wait would dry anon really do that. He admited that he wasnt a great writer.oh no)

>>714754459
>So the only logical answer for why they keep shooting you with bullets that can kill you is that they want to kill you.
Pretty much this with more nuance. They clearly see it as their duty as a monster to kill you, at least as random encounters, but are noticeably quick to give up when you do something that appeals to them, which pays off when they come to your rescue in True Pacifist (even though that technically ends up helping Flowey gain full power). I don't know how people went this deep into some logical analysis that they convinced themselves the monsters either have to be purely ignorant or purely malicious to act the way they do when it's more nuanced than that, and at the same time not that deep. There are plenty of monsters that recognise you as human, one NPC in particular I remember brings up the concept of human food out of nowhere to you.

>>714754810
sadie will be aparty member so its not her

>>714754735
>The ruins monsters have no idea what you are
Doesn't a froggit literally call you a human and ask you to show some mercy?

>>714754735
>The ruins monsters have no idea what you are
All the Froggits in the ruins address you as human.
>Most of the monsters don't even know what a human is and just think you're another monster.
Not the ones that attack you. They know and are trying to kill you.
>people like snowdrake, icecap, they definitely seem aware but do you really think they're trying to kill you to escape?
Ice Cap can flaunt his hat on the surface, Snowy can pursue his career of comedy elsewhere, and more importantly they can stop living confined in the darkness, afraid that the humans will come and wipe them out. Getting your soul doesn't just mean they're free, it means everyone in the underground gets freed. As far as they're concerned its like saving the world.
>Shyren and Aaron literally just sing or sweat on you
Aaron is attacking you with his sweat and Shyren is attacking you with her voice. Aaron likely just wants your soul, while Shyren likely just wants you to go away.

>>714754898
>>714754985
That's just what she wants you to think.

I think DRY should have gaster

I can't believe it's taken until now for /v/ to realise that Undertale didn't think of literally every edge case when trying to canonize the game mechanics.

>>714755221
We've always known anon. It's just fun to speculate possible reasons for it.

>>714755176
no no no she will literally be a party member. Ive seen dry concepts for future party members

so anyways the logical outcome for the underground would be either banana republic, puppet state, or monsters get pushed back underground.
Realistically the monsters are fucked. Tobys ending was extremely NAIVE

>>714755408
or the humans are similarly quirky like frisk and they get along instead of some grimdark REEL bunch of bullshit

>>714755408
>so anyways the logical outcome for the underground would be either banana republic, puppet state, or monsters get pushed back underground.
These are just the Neutral endings anon. There are like 10 of them. But yes the True Pacifist ending was too good to be true.

>>714755362
How does that stop her from being the Outlaw?

>>714755116
It took me until reading this that the reason they even would be attacking you is in the HOPE of fulfilling their DREAM on the surface. Yes I'm stupid.
Makes making all their names yellow in the True Pacifist credits make a lot more thematic sense.

i honestly can't take the ceroba vs toriel debate seriously when ceroba literally murdered her child in her backstory. i don't care if you say she had good intentions that was the most retarded thing she could've done and takes away any seriousness her backstory had for me. toriel is still a shit mother though ramb is the true parental figure kris needed

>>714755523
because dry anon wants the story to be straightforward and simple. ANd making the outlaw be also the party member might be a bit too convulated for hm
(i could be wrong tho

>>714755530
>Makes making all their names yellow in the True Pacifist credits make a lot more thematic sense.
explain

>>714755607
yeah but toriel is a whore soooooooooooooooo

>>714755607
I'll be honest, her child is even more retarded.
>Yes mom inject me with daddy's fucked up serum
>I'm an illiterate little faggot but I read through ALL the documentation and concluded that you actually got it right so stop being a pussy an inject me
>Let me guilt trip you even more by saying this is what he would have wanted
>Oh no I'm fucking dying because I told my mother to inject me with something lethal which I don't even have the brainpower to comprehend because I'm a fucking child

>>714755631
Having a party member double cross you isn't that crazy.

>>714755471
>quirky
>instead of some grimdark
>talking about the universe where the background was a literal genocidal war.
>where the survivors were cast underground to rot
>and the humans were the ones that caused the war and trapped the monsters underground
anon.....I think the humans in ut are a bit.....

>>714755408
t.

>>714755934
oh yeah and also the humans shot asriel and killed him. (tho this was a bit understandable due to what asriel looked like)

>>714755802
okay fine I admit it. maybe sadie is the outlaw. (hmm maybe i should ask dry anon)

>>714755221
I think people have, at least, always known about it
its just we've been to busy theorycrafting on the mysteries of the game and hornyposting on muffet and undyne

How long HAS it been since the Human Monster War?
Intro for Undertale seems to imply that Monster's are no more than supposed legend. (Or at least the mountain they were sealed under).
Would Humanity even care about some war they once thought was myth once the Monsters were freed again, seems the only reason the Underground acts like the war was recent is because there were so few of them left after it trapped down there.

>>714726854
>>714726050
Monsters get hurt proportionally by intend more than anything. When it comes to humans, the intend of the monster matters less but still counts.

>*Disturbed starts playing*
>Pacifism?
>Tch, don't make me laugh.
>This is REAL LIFE, kid.
>In this GRIM and D A R K world its kILL or BE KILLED
>The only chance the monsters have is to give in to their nature and become genuine __DEMONS__
>reap the EXECUTION POINTS, gain VIOLENCE, and embrace the __C A TH A R T I C G E N O CI D E__

>>714756080
He's not gonna tell you.

>>714755772
now that you've mention it, why isn't DRY Kanako not as retarded as her UT counterpart?
surely her being bad at math isn't the only defining part that makes here a stupid idiot

>>714756017
He was a 7ft tall black eyed goat monster carrying a dead child. There's no way that wouldn't go poorly.

>>714756478
I have my ways :)

>>714756484
She's older. That's probably just it, kids do stupid shit all these games are centered on kids doing stupid shit.

>>714755772
She's a toddler
>>714756484
She's no longer a toddler.

It would be a fun addition to DRY to have some fluff dialogue talk about how much of a suicidal toddler Kanako was. Constantly sticking her fingers in electrical outlets, eating tide pods, teething on power cords. It got so bad that Ceroba and Chujin had to keep every square inch of the house baby proofed until she was seven.

chara was right

yes

total human genocide is the only way to save monster kind

asriel was a bitch

I THINK CHARA SUCKS

If asriel wasnt such a crybaby, the plan would have worked. its all azzys fault

>>714755607
8-2 and 6 were spite kills AND it doesn't include any monsters that were killed due to her spite like any of Integrity's victims.

Reminder that the whole Ketsukane family retardation tragedy wouldn't have happened if Toriel had either done her job as queen of monsterkind or caregiver properly instead of being a spiteful cowardly cunt.

>>714758204
but ceroba could have still not done the syringe though

>>714756208
A thousand years or so.

when you think about it its all charas fault. If chara never fell down the mountain none of this would have happened

>>714758378
There would have been no syringe if Toriel wasn't a shit queen.

>>714747698
I know this is supposed to be Integrity but I can't see anything but Black Human Sans

>>714758552
but still nothing forced ceroba to make her decision though. It was still her own choice in the end.
Toriel didnt somehow mindcontrol ceroba to do her syringe. Ceroba did it out of her own free will

why are so many Integrity designs black

>>714756208
I don't know specifically how many years its been, but its measured in the thousands.

>>714758541
wait if we go even further, its actually the humans fault
OMG!!1! THE MATRIX IS RIGHT, HUMENS ARE... LE BAD!!1!!

>>714758621
This is about Toriel. You've had about a year and a half of Reddit tier Ceroba bad circlejerking, deal with it faggot.
>>714758632
She chimped out.

>>714758678
YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND. HUMANS ARE THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEMS. HUMANS ARE EVIL

>>714754659
>everything points to Starlo
>>714754898
>yeah there's stuff that points to someone other than Starlo but it's a red herring

>>714758632
She's a violent immigrant, it was the natural conclusion.

>>714758747
When will DRYanon add Roba rancher?

>>714758769
>>714758702
fuck I laughed

>>714758702
>reddit
>faggot
Iol? Im personally not pro toriel either. But in this situation ceroba still ultimately did what she did out of her own free will

>>714754985
>the main antagonist can't be a temporary party member

>>714758854
The circlejerking is reddit tier and you are a faggot.

>>714759017
anon are you okay?

>>714758632
It's artists copying other artists
It's like how all the Asgore truck memes use the Deltatraveler version of Dess. There are a lot of versions of Dess, but people who don't want to make their own just grab whatever they see, usually off a Google search, and that's either the original black Integrity or another take inspired by said original black Integrity

>>714759037
I've stated everything that needs to be stated.

>>714759384
anon I think you need a break from these threads.
Ive taken a break for a long while then came back very recently

>>714753721
>Undertale's "perfect" ending is so unbelievably forced where despite all the logistical problems of the pacifist ending, everything just works out. A lot of Undertale's framework is pretty poorly written honestly, where the monsters are constantly painted as being super kind and could do no wrong. Deltarune is a lot better in this regard
I genuinely think Undertale is to Deltarune as the Halloween Hack is to Undertale. Toby's writing improves notably between projects

>>714759431
This is the first time I've posted in these threads in months and they're still as gay as they were past the first two or three months.

>>714754659
>>714754810
What would either of their motivations even be?

>>714759496
rip.Well Idk what to say except its gonna be like this forever t b h.. Ironically reddit is the pro ceroba den now but its reddit. And I dont think you want to use reddit

>>714759080
that checks out, I always wondered where that dess was from

>>714759574
I did write some long paragraphs a long time ago explaining starlos motivation...but it was mostly speculation. Need to remake it.

>>714759672
You write like a faggot.
>Ironically reddit is
Of course you would know what Reddit does, faggot.

>>714759759
Settle down okay?

>>714726440
I keep thinking about it. Once I finish my current project I'll work on it. But I've never coded an Undertale battle system before.

>>714759759
>faggot
calm down. Its just a writing style.

>>714759742
If you put it together while the thread is still up (or don't mind posting a summary), I'd love to hear them.

>>714759921
Im going to sleep soon. I will gladly post it in the next thread

>>714759574
>Starlo
NORTH STAR REAL (and possibly getting roba)
>Sadie
Kekiaku beyond our comprehension

>>714726440
If I made an alt soul game I'd be doing one for the Perseverance Soul, because it's very unlikely for someone to make an UT fangame where you're an old and feeble human who's lived underground so long they can barely remember the surface

>>714760054
Do you think the Perseverance man (or woman?) would make friends with Chujin?

>>714761829
I see this as taking place before Chujin was born (because I view the Underground as taking place over centuries with humans on average falling down anywhere from 40-100 years apart), but were they alive Chujin would have a distaste for humans but not have any reason to hate this human in particular.
I think in general, monsters who regularly interacted with a human who lived long enough to become a notable figure would be less likely to subscribe to anti-human propaganda. It might even be a problem for Asgore, though one he's too kind-natured and weak-willed to do anything about while the human is alive, as the two have probably grown to be regular acquaintances who meet on a consistent basis.
My take is inspired by weaver's take, in which Asgore and the human are "old friends."

Something for you Undertale Yellow fans.
The crossover you never expected but needed. Zenith Martlet with Kris from Deltarune.
Who knows, maybe in Deltarune Yellow Martlet's dark world will look like a mic of her Zenith form and her normal form.

>>714743458
how would DRY Clover react to Papyrus fucking his mom?

>>714743458
>>714750639
Cute, though I see this as more likely to happen with Starlo.

>>714762576
He'd probably shoot him with a lot of bullets.
Reload then shoot him some more.

Something for you Undertale Yellow fans. The crossover you never expected but needed. Zenith Martlet with Kris from Deltarune.
Who knows, maybe in Deltarune Yellow Martlet's dark world will look like a mix of her Zenith form and her normal form.

>>714762664
based

>>714762898
Neat.
Someone already posted it Artist-kun

>>714754139
Asgore wants him to design a truck. A mighty steed for the King.

>Thread hit bump limit faster in 1 day than the last one did in 2 days
I'm impressed. Though I'm still wondering what caused this.

>>714764770
might've been the janny meltdown that caused mass bans.

>>714764770
probably something to do with having "undertale" in the thread name.

>>714764770
Deltarune threads themselves are slower today for some reason, maybe a couple of people there came here and made it a little faster.
Since it's still kinda quiet, I'll just remind people if they don't know, the main place Fangame devs are posting is the /vrpg/ board if you want a place to see updates from them.

Tell my wife I-

>>714765845