Thread 718530019

Is space inherently a boring setting? It's 99.9999% empty

No, you just condense the boring parts. Starsector does this amazingly, along with Kerbal Space Program.

>>718530019 (OP)
We are literally in space right now

>>718530019 (OP)
it's like the opposite of your mum's vagina

>>718530019 (OP)
>>718530186
Space IS boring, needs to be like 40k or Star Wars to be interesting, just almost high fantasy for it to work and fill it with lots of strange anomalies and biomes, not just black with white dots at the background

Space got boring once we understood it's kind of fucking shitty

>>718530363
No, Starsector isn't boring. You constantly on your toes when flying through "empty" space.

>Scientists estimate that we've only discovered about 5% of the universe's total content
we haven't even finished the tutorial yet lads

You just have to make it interesting.

>>718530426
Space is still appealing as a bunch of dead rocks, because it's an escape from what exists on earth. The vacuum is harsh, but it doesnt nag at you or steal your money or prostitute your kids.

no, on the contrary, the problem with space is actually that there is too much, and videogames as a medium cannot hope to present it in a way that is engaging because of the scale

the best you get are empty procedural generated worlds, because you cannot hope to hand-craft a game and fill it with meaningful and engaging content on that scale, thus space games end up being boring

>>718530363
>just almost high fantasy for it to work and fill it with lots of strange anomalies and biomes
What space games even do that?

>>718530512
>5%
lmao no
looking at a millions of year old galaxy with a telescope is not discovering anything. you still have no idea how man stars and planets are in there, and what's on them. we are barely able to map out our own galaxy. we have discovered rat shit.

>>718530019 (OP)
That's why you need strong characters

>>718530019 (OP)
I love space and ive spent 1000+ hours on X4 Foundations

>>718530854
>X4 Foundations

>>718530680
I think if you limited it to just a single planetary system with lots of moons like Jupiter or Saturn, and put some effort into making the civilization on moons/asteroids/space colonies unique, you could have something that genuinely feels grand while still feeling somewhat handcrafted and soulful

>>718530019 (OP)
Only good space thing I've ever liked or tolerated was in Beautiful katamari, prob because you get to fuck it up and its over in a minute or 2.

>>718530019 (OP)
what game is this?

>>718530019 (OP)
You can make "nothing" interesting if the travel is at least a little interesting - see eg Oregon Trail, which people love despite it functionally being space due to
>it's mostly empty wilderness, with the occasional choice at obstacles

>>718530019 (OP)
this looks great. What game OP?

>>718530019 (OP)
You missing a few decimal nines there m80

>>718530458
Starsector is high sci-fi fantasy with void beasts,rampaging Ai, and a magic travel dimension

>>718530363
1/5, made me reply

>>718530686
That's underspace to a T

>>718531091
Has anyone made a game about being a slower-than-light ship and trying to keep everyone sane on a 20+ year journey between stars?

>>718531240
How is that different from reality?

>>718531078
>>718531232
Flight of Nova. It's an orbital cargo hauling simulator mostly. It's neat and can scratch a very niche itch, but the price is too high for what you get and it never seems to go on sale. The demo is free but it really only tells you how to control the ship.

>>718531078
>>718531232

>>718530019 (OP)
where's all the beautiful women

>>718530019 (OP)
Subnautica and Kerbal space program are proof that you can make empty environment interesting with the right gameplay loop and atmosphere.

Does anyone remember playing an indie space game, probably finnish, where even the intro lore stated that space had been compressed to a 2d space? The ships and stations were 3d, but all movement was on a 2d plane, and you flew it from a bird's eye view. I cant remember if it was just one huge map or if the world was in squares. It had all the typical space things, like trucking, bounty hunting, piracy etc IIRC.

>>718531429
wtf, there is no such mod for space engineers

>>718531821
Delta-V rings of saturn?

>>718531821
3030 Deathwar maybe?

>>718530019 (OP)
Ummmmm, just change it to make it better like Mario Galaxy did? Like are you smoothbrained anon?

>>718531995
No, it wasn't top down like that, the view was roughly at 30 degrees, and I don't recall the space being clear, but mostly filled with magellanic clouds or such. Perhaps all the stars had gone out, I cant remember.

>>718532248
Nope. I think it was made at least 15 years ago. The part about all of space being compressed into a 2D plane should be a dead giveaway, how many games would have a lore like that?

>>718530317
bullshit

>>718530725
>step in a new area
>*new zone discovered, +5000xp*
>leave and never come back again

cope about it.

>>718530963
>I think if you limited it to just a single planetary system with lots of moons like Jupiter or Saturn and put some effort into making the civilization on moons/asteroids/space colonies unique, you could have something that genuinely feels grand while still feeling somewhat handcrafted and soulful
Have I got the game for you

The cod zombies map moon says other wise

>>718531995
>>718532248
OH MY GOD I REMEMBERED THE NAME, IT'S FLAT SPACE AND ITS ON STEAM

>>718531423
>Early access for 3 years
damn

>>718531423
>>718531429
thanks anons!

space is boring

>>718530019 (OP)
Space is the perfect setting because it is so vast and empty. Anything, nothing, or everything could be there. It is a blank canvas ready for an artist to paint a masterpiece, only limited by the amount of effort the artist puts into the details.

>>718530019 (OP)
I think it's as boring as you make it. You could just as easily say the high seas is a boring setting too.

>>718532707
IT'S EVEN FREE, FUCK YEAH. PUBLISHED 20 YEARS AGO

I HAVENT BEEN THIS HAPPY ABOUT VIDEOGAMES IN A LOONG :D

>>718531919
Ai never lies

>>718532616
Top 3 games of the last decade.

Single solar systems are like the perfect scale for sci fi. It's big enough to feel epic and huge but small enough to feel like home. Galactic empires with thousands of planet make it hard to care about anything that happens within them because it gets lost in the scale, but it feels significant if something happens on, say, Ganymede.

The mecha genre likes this setting quite a bit now that I think about it. Zone of Enders, Gundam, Diebuster/Gunbuster

>>718530019 (OP)
Space is boring to boring people. It's the great midwit filter.

i like playing space engineers and just fucking around, going really fast, crashing into things and trying to escape a tumbling powerless supercruiser hulk after it just took a space rock to the face at 10% c and half of it is now vapor
i think the real challenge of a space game is there are a lot of systems and interactions to simulate and the immersion can be broken easily. for example SE doesn't do orbital dynamics which simplifies things a bit but also makes it less satisfying to have things in "orbit" or get into space. you just fly up and it's "more sky". the planets are just huge asteroids you can breathe on.

space games that take shortcuts to be fun end up feeling kind of bland somehow. space engineers and ksp suffer here mostly.
but then stuff that's too autistic is hard to get into, like battlecruiser 3k. hard to find a balance.

How does Star Wars manage to make an entire galaxy feel so tiny.

Space is made interesting by what lives in it.

Starfield is a boring setting, because not only does it go with an non-fantastical depiction of space with it just being full of empty dead rocks with some outposts on it, all the people living out there are just in perpetual 2020s modernist globohomo with no new ideas or aesthetics or metaphysics. Wildly different cultures have formed across moderately wide rivers, different planets should create really interesting/cool/horrible new kinds of peoples.

>>718533341
I wish I was born 6.000 years later.......

>>718530569
>freelancer
holy fuck I had a blast playing that when I was a kid. Now my hair falls out while I play Shart Shitizen

space game
>no living moons that hatch once every thousand years
>no diplomacy with creatures made of dark matter
>no wormholes that age your ship but de-age your crew
>no cults harvesting solar flares to resurrect long-dead empires
>no forbidden planets that appear on maps only after you dream about them
>no weapons powered by memories you have to give up
>no ship graveyard in low orbit where the wrecks are still warm
>no enemy faction that’s just you from a failed timeline
>no encounters with time-loop refugees begging you not to jump
but yeah sure, here’s your 7th laser cannon upgrade and a side quest to kill 10 space pirates :)

>>718536003
This is some advanced trek-core you got there.

>>718530019 (OP)
what I hate is how all space lore centers around the creation of some kind of magical faster than light 'warp' that lets them teleport around space when the only thing that makes the setting interesting is that traveling around is hard and would take a long time and you just made that a non factor by supposing all the space faring civilizations have this teleporting power. All scifi settings do this to the point its like a template they all just reskin over.

>>718530317
dont be ridiculous, what hubris are you spreading next? skeleton people inhabiting our bodies?

>>718533341
space is heaven for atheists.

>>718530186
>you just condense the boring parts
>starfield does this and everyone complains until they add boring parts back in

>>718530019 (OP)
>Is space inherently a boring setting?
No, that's Bethesda'a special magic. Normally space is exciting

>>718530019 (OP)
>empty
Space is completely filled with terror.

>>718533554
Hyperspace allows them to travel too quickly.
>BRB grabbing some beer on Tatooine

>>718530019 (OP)
Oh cool flight of nova. Haven't booted it up in a while, they make any updates to it lately?

>>718536003
Just play modded Stellaris

>>718538267
>Replace boring parts of atmospheric space travel and manual landing with 3 back to back loading screens + multiple unskippable cutscenes
Sarrfield didn't do the needful and no ranjeet cars didn't fix it. Turning off collision for foliage is the kind of ghetto ass shit people did for car mods in New Vegas a decade ago.

>>718530512
Scientists are making shit up mostly when it comes to astrophysics. Since nobody can fact check these cocksuckers they just make shit up

space is the ocean but with access to crazy wacky imma firin' my lazars instead of blunderbusses and awesomesauce alien babes instead of bodacious negresses and orientals.

>>718530019 (OP)
no more than wheat fields, mountains and caves which are all empty and boring too, at least until something interesting is placed in them

>>718533479
I think I've put about 20 real hours into space engineer from a planetary start (which out of cope is apparently the wrong first time way to play the gamerino) and the progression of building from scratch competent land vehicles, atmospheric vehicles, your first bases and depots, then your first few space daring vehicles was a decent game experience.
>Then it goes tumbling down
The problem I had was beyond that and fact the game is just ERP second life shit if you play with cheats/server admin status/everyone already having YouTube fabricators set up to print off full ships from their hotbar. Singleplayer the mission board, stores, and AI ships to fight are all extremely rudimentary and bad so beyond that survival point you have to "make your own fun" through those discord troon online servers. And like you said, once you get to the point you're actively getting fucked over by the simplified physics and world seed it's hard to keep playing. Especially once you realize the mid game mostly relies on cheese strats like microing your launch throttle and a physics glitch for early planetary travel with no "intended" path of progress to replace it.

Team Fortress 2 in space already exists, it's called Star Conflict and it is incredibly fast-pace and fun.
There's something for every playstyle and the ships are crazy customizable.

If it wasn't in the hands of the shittiest whale-hunting bunch of assholes in gaming, SC would be the undisputed champion of PvP spaceship combat.

The game needs a sequel with a larger scale, 25v25 minimum, and a major balance overhaul.

can you classify space games into good and bad games? let's see

>>718530019 (OP)
Only if you make it boring by removing everything that is dangerous about living in a vacuum.

>>718530019 (OP)
Yes, all the good space settings add space magic to it.

>>718536003
pretty sure FTL has some of those

>>718530363
How was school today, champ?

>>718530186
The condensation is called a starfield

>my most played space game is a dead game
Idk why, but this shit is a decent janky single-player open-world game. It's got good scale and progression. Not a single NPC on the radio telling me what to do. Just a sandbox. Still logging into this shit every once in a while. Haven't hit the 100 ship cap yet.
>Flying 30 minutes through a foggy asteroid field where clipping 1 roid can strand your ship if you don't have tools and mats to fix it, requiring you to teleport home and fly another ship out to fix it
>Design or buy a ship with asteroid avoidance or redundancy that clipping an asteroid at high speed doesn't cripple it
>Flying a ship home that can only turn in 1 direction and barely rotate because I crashed the fuck out of it
This game definitely isn't for most people.

>>718536003
people like you are the reason Idea Guy should be a legitimate paid position

>>718530019 (OP)
and yet it's the one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism....

>>718530019 (OP)
I can think of a few games that did space really well.
Outer wilds
The OG battlefront games for PS2/PSP where you had the battles on the ground or can go into space and fight in the spaceships in the sky
No mans sky did space very well, especially because of hyper jumping to planets and seamless transitions to the planets. Even if the games core gameplay loop is mediocre.

>>718530019 (OP)
Just fill it with zakus and suddenly it's more interesting.

>>718549084
Something about that Zaku seems a bit off.

>>718549138
The monoeye is a bit dirty, yes.

the moon rulz

>>718530019 (OP)
Video games weren't intended to become this realistic and immersive. Video games were made with constant action and challenge in mind, with nonsensical obstacles and enemies standing in your way for the sake of gameplay. Not moving forward with nothing going on for minutes straight for the "immersion." Even when games started to become more realistic with the 5th and 6th gen, there was still a sense of gamey engagement. When the 7th gen came along that's when it started to get really bad and now boring bullshit has become normalized.

>>718533341
Yes. Space in its reality makes for a boring story simply because it's a series of events on a timescale so impossibly huge that to our frame of reference, fuck-all happens.

But it's potential is limitless.

>>718530019 (OP)
No Man's Sky is fun
The only game that made me consider upgrading my PC to play on high settings

>>718549325
>Video games weren't intended to become this realistic and immersive.
pure nonsense

i want a space game that starfield was SUPPOSED to be

>>718549636
starsector kind of is

>>718549517
Nah he's right. You dumb graphicswhores and realismfags used to get laughed at.

>>718549636
No Man's Sky

>>718530019 (OP)
You know space is boring and shit, because every story is about pretending space has something else interesting.

space gamers are about busy work and interacting with complex menus

>>718530019 (OP)
People don't like realistic space games because it makes them realize nothing matters and human existence is completely pointless

there's two options
1. do something ridiculously interesting with space and sci fi like >>718532616
2. do something ridiculously realistic (ie. boring) like... I dunno. KSP? Terra Invicta? Something like that. Where the boringness sets a sort tone, the commitment loops around to being impressive.
Anything in between is ABSOLUTE DOG SHIT. Either commit to SCIENCE FANTASY or HARD SCIFI, or FUCK OFF.

>>718549793
No you aren't, newer, more "realistic" graphics were a constant driving force for as long as vidya has existed.

>>718550360
>constant driving force
Doesn't mean it wasn't constantly ridiculed.

>>718530363
>Space IS boring, needs to be like 40k or Star Wars to be interesting

>>718550457
it wasn't, because back then the graphical leaps were genuinely impressive in the past, instead of the minute crawl and literal splitting of (nvidia) hairs we have today

>>718530854
>average logistics enjoyer

>>718530019 (OP)
Space is the original back rooms

>>718531283
Underspace just makes me sad we'll never get a weird lore Elder Scorlls game.

>>718550084
gaem?

>>718537860
I seriously doubt that chemical rockets will ever get us out of the solar system, so it makes total sense that interstellar travel is gated by ftl development.

>>718551192
Ostranauts

>>718530019 (OP)
Yeah

>>718551235
They definitely can, there's just a hard limit on how fast they can take us, and there's nowhere to go that's reachable in a human lifespan, assuming there's anything but barren rocks to visit in the first place. FTL or Wormhole/gate magic is needed to make it remotely appealing to anyone who wants to do anything resembling the exploring we do in science fiction.

I quite like Elite BECAUSE of the scale. The emptiness of space has a certain beauty about it that captures me like a steel trap. Star Citizen is cool too, but it's a buggy unfinished mess. Recently grabbed X4, gonna give that a fair shake.

>>718530019 (OP)
Everything that exists is 99.99999% empty
It’s all about scale

Space wouldn’t be such a boring setting if you were FUCKING HUUUUUUUGE like the size of the distance between 20 different galaxies or something

>>718530019 (OP)
A good space game should be 30% FPS, 30% first person RPG, 20% comfy space trucking, 10% space fighting.

yeah, but once you talk about who owns all that space it's a cool setting again

>take boring setting
>add giant monsters
>setting is no longer boring
Simple as

>>718551691
Game?

>>718551235
>that one game at Doritio Pope's show made by some wild eyed dude and his lesbian wife about a sublight ark ship heading towards Alpha Centauri
>gameplay is based around you managing space psychosis, race relations, family lines and your finite resources over the span of a few generations
>if push comes to shove you have to slowly recycle the ship mid flight and pray that you don't boil the whole thing down for scrap before you get there
I thought it was an interesting premise based on that despite the corporate memphis aesthetics at play. Since they haven't developed the means to collect materials along the way you have to essentially ration everything out from the start or risk a total collapse. As the people onboard start burning their own finite belongings for warmth. All while the ship is slowly circling down into a death spiral.

>>718530019 (OP)
Yes. It's why a fuckton of space games are just trucker simulations.

>>718551727
Underspace

>>718530019 (OP)
Then obviously you need to fill it in with cool stuff then.

>>718531919
do the needful and work with AI it's not a bubble I swear you just need to keep prompting

>>718551727
Underspace
Freelancer clone made by a /v/fag from here.

There was a sweet spot in science fiction when the idea that mankind could travel the stars became legitimately possible in the imaginations of man, before the scientific realities of space became popularly known enough to snuff those imaginations. We need more games in that kind of setting.

>>718551557
>finally reach the point where you can effectively outrun the speed of light
>the race already began eons ago so now you have to play catch up across the spooky abyss with nothing to occupy your time with between A and B

>>718530019 (OP)
You should add titty aliens, evil aliens, super evil unknown aliens plotting the destruction of humanity and titty aliens who love human men.

>>718552062
If you could break the speed of light you’d break the rate of information transfer through discrete packets of energy in the universe altogether

So playing catchup wouldn’t matter

The illusory nature of reality would become tangibly apparent and there would be nothing to catch up to

>>718530019 (OP)
If you played KSP one time and hold this opinion you're probably a homo.

>>718536003
I would buy your game bro

>>718550509
LotGH isn't about space.

>>718531163
404 nigger

>>718551442
But what if the electro gravitic propulsion that we have right now makes that a moot point, would you complain about how that doesn't fit your autism beliefs about space travel?

>>718554908
I don't recall espousing any "autism beliefs"
You said chemical rockets won't get us out of the solar system, and I said they already can, but we have nowhere to go with them.

>>718551235
The most powerful rocket that can theoretically exist based on known science is an antimatter photon rocket, which would have an ISP of about 30 million seconds, vs 300 to 500 for chemical rockets. This could get you, again, theoretically, to a speed of 0.9c and back to zero. How to manufacture several thousand tonnes of antimatter is an exercise left to the reader. 0.2c is about the best you can possibly do with a pure fusion drive (aka no propellant, so very slow acceleration)

>>718555234
Calling physics you don't understand magic or not plausible while talking about the glories of chemical rockets is autism, specifically it's NASA tier autism.

>>718555298
Or you could gate energy from the quantum vacuum field and charge the space time in back/in front of you to make you go fast.

>>718555325
It's not a glory at all, it's boring and slow.

>>718555406
That was just a bunch of made up words

>>718555459
This man committed suicide by gunshot to the back of his head one week before he was supposed to testify behind closed doors in Congress about arvs.

>>718555525
https://youtu.be/5HcFH-1h12Y?si=xktBwKC_8ZrYdc76
Whoops.

>>718530317
The problem with space games is that they're empty AND that they treat spaceships like cars that you have to manage constantly instead of just plotting a cause and hitting autopilot.

Space only seems empty and boring because of our pathetic little ant-tier scale perspective
The universe is some crazy wild dangerous shit
And the dangerous shit is scarier than what's on Earth because it can't be reasoned with. It's just physics that will shred you apart because that's how it works

>>718530019 (OP)
Space games are no different than those german farming sims.

>>718551235
but my point is every scifi world comes to the same conclusions, does it the same way, and can effectively swap all their ftl/warp devices with each other. You can come up with literally anything and were still all ripping off star wars from the 70s.

>>718555595
Under immense gravitational forces, there is a hypothesised form of matter called Quark Matter, and the idea is that it's the optimal matter confuguration that can exist because it has perfect stability. There is a fear that if such matter came into contact with regular matter, it would kick off the conversion of all available matter into this form, like a physical version of false vacuum decay. You will now wonder, if this is possible to do without forming a black hole, then what kind of matter must exist at the singularity of one?

>>718555820
>You can come up with literally anything and were still all ripping off star wars from the 70s.
Yeah because big money is not going to throw away their stolen millions on some autist and his halfbrained ideas. You want orginaglty you need to fly yourself from the ground level and move from there. You could make an entire narrative based on Paradigm Worlds but no one is going to throw their money behind that.

>>718555909
Probably a white hole.

>>718552015
>before the scientific realities of space became popularly known
space is made in computers and hollywood stages.

>>718555996
So how flat is the earth?

>>718555968
A white hole can't exist in conventional reality because as an inverse gravitational phenomenon, it would push spacetime away from itself.

>>718555935
I dont know what to tell you other than you seem creatively restricted. I just played mass effect for the first time and I instantly noticed its the exact same 'scifi template' starter pack as star trek and every other contemporary scifi work. Just make up something else for once.

>>718556076
CALIFORNICATION

>>718530019 (OP)
If you don't have the wanderer's spirit, you're honestly be better off attending a lecture on space than actually exploring a "realistic" interpretation of it in a video game. You wouldn't know where the fuck you'd want to go, and there's nothing to see out there besides stars, rocks and gasses.

>>718556076
I'm an adherent of the Great Iceball hypothesis. Flatearth and space is fake are for the gays and the lame.

>>718556518
great ice ball must also concede that space is fake, because the solar system as we know it can't exist with an earth that big

>>718557305
>great ice ball must also concede that space is fake, because the solar system as we know it can't exist with an earth that big

>>718531429
So this is the power of AI?

>>718531995
based game

>>718530317
space is inside you too

>>718549508
it runs like shit regardless of your setup

>>718556518
Great Iceball still doesn't reconcile the coriolis force

>>718530019 (OP)
while the universe is astounding
the reality of the situation is pretty depressing when it comes to space-travel

I just want an EVE offline that isn't X4.

>>718530019 (OP)
yes. i appreciate it as a form of what i call "ambient travel" but a game should have the occasional dogfight in space followed by a seamless descent onto a planet full of shit to do. no man's sky is almost cool except for the "shit to do" part.

>>718530019 (OP)
Space has literally everything in it so it can't be boring

>>718559975
This assumes it isn't possible for someone to find everything that is or can happen in space boring

>>718559975
You don't actually believe what you are parroting.

>>718556112
It’ll come at the cost of contemporary humanity.

>>718559780
considering that you or any person can travel the entire distance of the known universe in one lifetime is pretty cool. it's just a matter of figuring out how to get a ship to travel fast enough. only downside is that earth, humanity, and everything else will age several billion years haha

>>718530019 (OP)
More like 99.99999999999999999%

Did you know that all our planets in our galaxy fits between the Earth and the moon? Space is THAT empty.

>>718559975
>the dictionary is the best book of all times

>>718560216
>galaxy
I think you mean solar system? but yeah they do with a little room to spare

>>718560216
How the fuck is that possible? Jupiter alone can fill that space and more.

>>718560335
Yeah meant solar system

>>718560193
you can only go forward, you can never go back

>>718560361
Nope, it's true. The moon is quite a distance away from Earth.

>>718560361
no it cannot
they all fit with about an earth of space to spare

Is Numale's Sky good if I'm looking for some space action?

>>718556112
>ftl doesn’t exist
>most non-engineered intelligences can’t brave interstellar travel, so the space between stars is near-exclusively populated by computers
>you want to play as a human? best we can do is get you a humanoid avatar for interplanetary travel
>human civilization has long since collapsed anyway
>time passes at a rapid pace between destinations, so a prospering civilization may be near its deathbed after a particularly long round trip

>>718530019 (OP)
>*steps into your path*
you just turn every game into a new galaxy with its own story

>>718535073
You can still play it for free.
https://www.myabandonware.com/game/freelancer-bbb

Play X4

Give me Spore 2 on an Space Engine scale. Realistic 1:1 Spore would be insane.

>>718560673
>Imperium of Man
>Xenophobic

Yep time for another Stellaris playthrough

>>718560884
I'm waiting for 8.0 and the reemergence update

>>718561462
>reemergence
Are the kock coming back?

>>718530019 (OP)
>Is space inherently a boring setting? It's 99.9999% empty
No it just hasn't been done well by hardly any games mainly because it is hard from a design perspective.
At the minimum for a proper "open" game focusing on space you need full ability to travel both in planet atmosphere and in space without loading screen, so basically like kerbal and NMS. If you aren't doing that then it is not even what I would consider a "space game"
I'd even consider Outer Wilds successful in this respect and it is a good example of why you do not always need some impossibly large empty planets to do his.

Now where the few games that make it this far then fail is providing a compelling narrative and things to do, outer wilds is mostly a walking sim, kerbal is a sandbox and NMS just has repetitive random mission and not much of a story.

What you really need next are actual planet specific quests. To be successful I would say you do need a lot but it would be possible to fill it adequately if you had enough unique quests and locations akin to Skyrim or Fallout NV.
You do not need every inch of every planet to be a theme park but you do need stuff out there somewhere for people to find if they search.
Starfield had potential if they actually had put in the effort but failed at this because nothing in the entire world is interesting and every quest sucks.

Have a solar system with maybe 10 planets throw maybe 20 towns between them and some factions, have some of the factions war and then you could use that as a main quest hook and you'd be able to jump into skirmishes and pick sides.
For side content you just fill it with usual scifi fiction tropes, space pirates, ship crashes, scary derelict abandoned ships in orbit, asteroid mining, OP advanced civilizations and technology, underdeveloped planets and moral decisions to fuck with. Just watch star trek, star wars, battlestar galactica and copy shit.

Probably what Starfield intended but devs were too lazy and dumb.

Just make the setting the space where it isn't empty and the ships, DUMMY. Would you call a setting about pirates going around and blowing each other up on the high seas boring just because the ocean is big?

>>718562354
>Would you call a setting about pirates going around and blowing each other up on the high seas boring just because the ocean is big?
Sea of thieves is boring.

>>718530019 (OP)
WHAT GAME

>>718560884

just an economy simulator, not fun for a space game.

>>718530569
I haven't been able to have as much fun with a space game since Freelancer. I tried to like Elite Dangerous but its multiplayer is fundamentslly broken. Star Citizen is dogshit. Cosmoteer is ok but just really ends up feeling like a worse Starsector (which isn't MP). Evochron Mercenaries multiplayer felt like it was tacked on the way ED is. Might have played others, can't remember desu.

Not the same intended experience but I did enjoy PULSAR Lost Colony, Void Crew, and Jump Ship (or whatever its called now) looks cool.
>>718552121
This guy plays Star Control 2.

>>718561601
ye

>>718530019 (OP)
Emptyness is empty.

>>718538267
starfield didn't do shit. all the parts of interest are handfuls of identical places across the galaxy, which is already a tremendous cock up, and with how many loading screens you have to face to get between everything, it may as well feel empty anyway since nothing feels organically connected whatsoever.

>>718563342
Bethesda's insistence on cell based game spaces is going to hurt it in the long run

>>718538267
My man, there is a balance. Shartfield condensed TOO much. There's nothing to find in the space maps except dogfights, and dogfights are more or less just stat checks. They become dull after the second engagement because you've essentially seen everything they have to offer in the first.

>>718538267
Starfield went the opposite retard way.
The only games that do it right are No man's Sky and Everspace.

>>718544236
Awesome, I fucked a cheerleader and got head from a nerdy bookworm girl. Shame my afternoon classes had exams I had to monitor but it's a pretty nice gig.

>>718555820
That's a dumb autistic complaint. Its simply invalid and reductive.

Yes, FTL is the baseline tech for a sci-fi space IP.
Vehicles with an engine propulsion such as internal combustion or electricity are the baseline tech for a racing game.

Swords, Axes and spears are the baseline tech for a western medieval game.

Literally what is the problem here? What the fuck do you expect, a game where we both have interstellar travel but also... don't have the tech for it? You dumb fuck. There's already game with near-future tech where we are in our solar system or we are stuck on a ship, Dead space and Cyberpunk both have this tech.

A far bigger issue with space sci fi is the alien races. It's almost always, ALWAYS such a lazy, narcissistic human-centric presentation of what life could be.

It shows how humans are so dumb and creatively limited in their perception when everyone out there in the vast reaches of completely biologically evolutionarily distinct is just... recolored humans with an antenna, bugface or some shit. It's so fucking lazy.

Alien and that one Jelly like race from Mass Effect were the only interesting depictions of aliens i've seen because they seem like plausible evolutionary paths.

Like If I had to really think about it, we as humans would never come up with something like a Rhino or an Elephant unless we saw them and knew they existed. We would not be able to come up with it because almost all the alien designs out there look like variations of.. Us. It's so dumb and immersion breaking.

>>718530019 (OP)
Space is only cool when you make it deepsea with giant space monsters and shit

>>718562760
Its the best space sim game, but sure buddy

It is when the game leans into realism, but not so much to be turbo-autist tier. You either go all in on the realistic shit or make it more imaginative. Half measures of realism is the worst part of any space setting.

See: Elite Dangerous. The game has a lot to do, but fuck all that feels 'worth' doing. You'll get bored of the space trucking and repetitive combat, then go out and explore hoping to find something no one ever has, only just to end up with the same lame balls of rock and ice over and over again. No alien ruins, no strange animals, no crashed/derelict ships outside of the bubble, and certainly no landing on actually habitable worlds. You can't even just park somewhere pretty and peruse around your ship taking in the comfy scenery because the game has you glued to the cockpit.

>>718565568
Elite is the perfect example to point to when an autist complains about realism and true-to-life depictions -- There's your true to life depiction moron. It fucking sucks, just like your life!

No game really gets it right which is wild. No Man's Sky currently had the best chances but it's dumb cartoony style, lack of a decent plot and it's core game mechanics still being a boring grind kill it.

Starfield has cooler art, gunplay and it's ships are way nicer but it fails to make decent quests, space exploration and not be woke indian made trash.

Star Citizen is... lol.

Mass Effect got characters and some planets and lore very right.. Then it blew itself up.

All these games get something right but never everything right. And why do we not have a mech game in space, Why is it always Armored Core rip offs? I want my fucking space opera!

>>718564562
>>718560507

>>718530854
based X-boomer, or Xoomer as I like to call them

>>718560884
I have. I'm waiting for the diplomacy update to replay.
I've done a normal first playthrough from nothing to an empire. Then I did a Boron ship/stations only playthrough. Then I did a Terran ship/stations only playthrough with a mod that basically spread Xenon all over and reduced the sectors normal factions had at the start. It was pretty fun to roleplay like a last stand situation when you try to conquer new places and resources inch by inch by fighting the Xenon off, but ultimately the insane passiveness of all factions, Xenon included, made it kind of dull.
I hope the diplomacy update makes it possible for the factions to be more proactive and aggressive. Though I'm not yet sure what kind of a playthrough I'll go with that time.

>>718564562
Sex with Vetra

>>718565859
>Starfield has cooler art, gunplay and it's ships
wrong on all points. it's a total shitshow. nothing redeeming (pun intended) about it

>>718566990
Being disingenuous and trolling may be a common past time here but it's not good for taking you seriously. Starfield has already many reasons to shit on it, pretending there's nothing of value in a gigantic project like this doesn't give merit to your post.

>>718530019 (OP)
Just treat it like the ocean and fill it with horrible monstrosities the deeper you explore.

>>718531919
even if its not, anons forget that modded 100 player Space Engineers is fucking amazing.
they only remember the early access builds where it was jank, lagged and had no shit in it.

>>718538267
no the problem with Starfield was instead of boring parts we got loading screens and bad performance.
If it didnt run like shit and load a new map every 30-90 seconds it would've been a solid 6/10 game if they lowered the price (game is still massively overpriced despite flopping 2 years ago)

>>718530186
This. Look at the X series, which is the only big open space sim that's managed to stay big and relevant. It's built around smaller sectors of space, which are relatively full of things. This lets you actually design a fucking videogame properly.

>>718538267
Starfield doesn't fucking do it though. It skips over the empty parts. It does not condense or compress them.

>>718559937
I mean X3 and 4 are pretty close.
Eve's fucking solid though and shit's free if you arent retarded.

>>718530317
im in your mom right now actually

>>718530019 (OP)
yes, just like earth is inherently a boring setting because it's mostly water and empty fields, and also is located in space which is 99.9999% empty

>>718560673
I picked this up last week and having a blast.
Looking for a good Eve Online mod but they all look like they broke with the 4.0 update.
Would it be hard for me to just add in .pngs of the logos or something myself?

>>718560884
I wanted to like it but the controls are really badly mapped and half of them cant be changed. Its like it was designed for controller which is a hard pass for me

>>718537860
All space sci-fi needs faster than light travel because you can't go anywhere otherwise and it wouldn't be space sci-fi. That's a retarded thing to complain about.

>>718530019 (OP)
Space is a fantastic setting BECAUSE it's 99.99999999999% empty...until you run into the thing that's ten billion times your size.

Or even more terrifying, the thing that's ten times your size, and some-fucking-how a trillion times more massive.

>>718537869
>hubris
Wrong word.

>>718530317
Filthy Spacenoid Propaganda

>>718564562
>It's almost always, ALWAYS such a lazy, narcissistic human-centric presentation of what life could be.
It's a holdover from before CGI and video games where the only aliens you could put on the screen were humans in make-up. Humanoids are simpler because it requires less concept art and animation to get working. You may call it lazy, but I fucking dare you to imagine a body plan right now that isn't derivative of life on earth.

Play Empyrion with Reforged Eden 2

Reinstalled Star Citizen the other day. It's still a buggy piece of shit, but for the brief moments were it wasn't it did look really cool. Such a shame that game will forever be a scam and that Elite Dangerous is nothing but space truck simulator.

>>718531919
The mod is called "Real Orbits"

>>718567745
it really doesn't
>click button
>WOOOSH
>two months have passed and we are now at the Deimos Orbital Trade Hub

>>718530019 (OP)
It has like the inverse problem of comic book/Netflix fantasy where the historical real equivalent is actually more interesting and better looking than what they're making - the ACTHSUALLY nerds who rule sci-fi have the most boring version of it possible.

>>718550509
LOGH is written by fucking gooktard don't even know how military system works so I simply ignore it

>>718569390
based

>>718530569
What's stopping a Dyson sphere from just collapsing or being pulled into the star? What a retarded concept.

>>718530019 (OP)
Yes.

>>718569676
Quantum reinforcement maifolds powered by tachyon array inhibitors

>>718531298
Reminds me of Tharsis, but that's just a trip to Mars. Killer soundtrack though.

>>718564562
>It shows how humans are so dumb
It actually shows that we implicitly understand that intelligent life (Homo sapiens) looks the way it does for a reason. If we were to encounter intelligent alien life, it would, statistically, be anthropomorphic; for the same reason that rocky planets, statistically, form in the types of star systems that they do etc. Anthropomorphism in this sense is just (accidentally) good hard sci-fi.

>>718555996
Brown hands typed this post

>>718570146
most likely white american
jeets believe in space they just think krishna built it or some shit

>>718530868
I love dem aliens

>>718568019
Not hard at all. Did you ever see biblically accurate angels?
The problem is that we always see them with distinctly human features that are abit twisted. Different color, engorged eyes, lanky build. But they all got our musculature and general structure.
Why would a low gravity planet for example even have muscular creatures like us? The physiology makes no sense.

Even putting aside autistic evolutionism, why can't it be cooler and authentic? We have SO MANY different forms of creature on this planet. Why is it so hard to imagine something non humanoid for a completely new planet?

I mean fuck you don't even have to go far, just look what we find deep under the sea

>>718569974
Not really. Anthromorphism is largely a happy accident, our brain developed the way it did due to alot of factors that we cannot control. It's a statistical anomaly, not a perfect conclusion.

Had our conditions on this planet be different, we would have developed different forms. We were tree climbers and had hair and tails too, we lost it because it wasn't practical as we developed sweat gland systems. We lost our fins as we could no longer swim for long and breath underwater. We lost abilities as we gained new ones. Those aren't necessarily what was the catalyst for cognitive brain growth.
We don't know the exact reasons for Homo Sapien's X Factor, we just draw educated guesses such as environmental pressure to adapt fast, move around, varied diet, and have unique sounds that facilitated language and language as a key factor helped build the ability to abstract, and combined with opposite thumbs allowed for tool building. But we also see other types of animals express intelligence similar to it, just that they haven't developed the vocal cords or bodily functions for it.

Anthromorphism isn't the ideal form for surviving on Planet earth even, it was just the form we took as we somehow unlocked a biological pathway to high cognitive function. It could've been a Canine species had they learned to talk or use tools. We don't really know. So why not be more creative with it?

>>718570591
Reading about/watching humans/humanoids interacting with each other is simply more interesting than whatever you could do with an octopus alien or whatever.

>>718530317
hilarious and true

>>718571093
That's an opinion, doesn't make it true. It proves my point though, you are human centric and narcissistic (not an insult, an observation that applies to almost all human), so you don't find it likely to empathize with anything that doesn't look similar to you.

But it's not a fact. We could still have an interesting setting with non-human lifeforms. And we already have examples of it. It's just rare to see it done more because most IPs are creatively bankrupt.

>>718530019 (OP)
>Is space inherently a boring setting? It's 99.9999% empty
No real gamer would ever write a sentence like this

>>718536003
>no wormholes that age your ship but de-age your crew

wormholes are generally underutilized in space games
the best implementation I've seen is a wormhole acting as a warp point not to the adjacent solar system, but connecting to somewhere else far away in the galaxy
in a turn-based 4x space game this can completely change the strategy
...and it's not even that exciting

>>718571332
Starsector is the only space game that touches on how ridiculously dangerous neutron stars are
Black holes are calm

>>718571091
That "accident" was ultimately conditioned by immutable laws and mechanisms of nature. It's a moot point to say it was a chance occurrence when a straight line of causality can be drawn between it and these conditions. Humans evolved the way they did and look and act the way they do for a *reason*.
>We don't know the exact reasons for Homo Sapien's X Factor
We do. Our intelligence and propensity for violence overwhelmed our instinctual/genetic self-preservation mechanisms and made it necessary for us to develop language, culture, complex social structures etc. Other animals don't meet this threshold for intelligence and thus don't need these alternative self-preservation mechanisms.
>they haven't developed the vocal cords or bodily functions for it.
We didn't evolve vocal cords and then develop language for them; in the same way that whales didn't evolve flippers and then decide to dive into the ocean. We developed language and our bodies adapted to it.
>It could've been a Canine species
Then why wasn't it? Again: canines didn't come to dominate this planet for a *reason*.
This is just pure fantasy, but I suppose you are a sci-fi fan after all.

>>718571332
god ai is dogshit

>>718571223
>so you don't find it likely to empathize with anything that doesn't look similar to you.
I could empathize with an octopus alien if it possessed human qualities, but then it wouldn't be very alien. And I don't care to read about octopus aliens without human qualities because that would be boring. We have non-human octopus aliens on Earth—they're called octopuses. It's a lose-lose situation for you.

>>718569676
If it's literally a sphere then yeah, it'll break apart without some space jew magic, dyson rings though can orbit the star just fine, you don't even have to physically connect all the fragments, just imagine 10000000 football field sized solar cells loosely connected by some cables orbiting around, would work with current tech if we could get them there

>>718530019 (OP)
>Is space inherently a boring setting? It's 99.9999% empty
One mans 99.9999% empty, is another mans 99.9999% nigger free.

>>718571624
>We do. Our intelligence and propensity for violence overwhelmed our instinctual/genetic self-preservation mechanisms and made it necessary for us to develop language, culture, complex social structures etc. Other animals don't meet this threshold for intelligence and thus don't need these alternative self-preservation mechanisms.
No. Like I said, a theory, not a solid provable factor. We don't actually know, it's nearly impossible to measure such a complex evolutionary factor. And it still doesn't lend itself to our form itself (which is my point) , it's a correlation, but doesn't prove causation.
Language doesn't mean we had to become hairless tailless bipedal primates. Some birds have evolved vocal cords too. There's more than one single factor here. IF ANYTHING our natural limitations may have helped trigger the evolution faster but it's still at best hypothetical.

> We didn't evolve vocal cords and then develop language for them; in the same way that whales didn't evolve flippers and then decide to dive into the ocean. We developed language and our bodies adapted to it.
Semantical
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335619396_How_Did_Language_Evolve_Biological_Psychological_and_Linguistic_Perspectives
Our vocal tract is key to it.
> Investigations exploring the evolution of the vocal tract start from a fundamental observation: the human supralaryngeal vocal tract (SVT) is anatomically different from that of other living primates (Lieberman, 2007).

> Then why wasn't it? Again: canines didn't come to dominate this planet for a *reason*.
Because shit didn't work out that way? Do you think i'm omniscient? The point is that we can't rule it out. That's what sci fi should do, explore unknowns that's not just "Spaceship goes BRRRR"

>>718548043
Shit, I remember following early YouTube developments for this game, really interested me seeing ship systems/motors and doors working from wired logic components. Looked cool, but all I ever saw was poor reviews

>>718571779
It really isn't. Intelligence isn't proved to be inherently tied to a human form factor, we don't have other frames of reference, that's it.
Other types of animals feel pain, emotion, memory. You just can't understand them. That doesn't mean in a situation where humans didn't manage to leap far further forward fast, it could not have happened.

And even if it wasn't as intelligent, so? Is Alien (the movie) now a shit series because you don't have a human soap drama attached? That's some woman type of thinking.

I don't think people here are realizing just how much of a statistical miracle human life and form factor is. It's ridiculous to see it replicated almost identically so many times over across the universe.

>>718568202
>Play Empyrion with Reforged Eden 2
It's so fucking jank and the devs just don't give a shit anymore. I slogged my way through like 10 hours of tutorial shit, tons of jank combat, buggy fucking mechanics, glitched enemies and all sorts of shit. Everything is there, but none of it is well done or particularly enjoyable. After a decade in development it still feels like a broken early access game.

Space Engineers with mods has a far more solid core.

>>718572440
>We don't actually know
This is called the epistemic fallacy: reducing what there is to what we can know. In other words: not being able to know a thing does not absolve us from hypothesizing it. And as it stands, the hypothesis that I've put forward is the best. Simply sputtering "We can't know" doesn't cut it.
>Semantical
Umm, no; this is not merely a semantic quibble. The version of "evolution" you are putting forward is backwards and nonsensical. Humans have unique vocal tracts *because* they adapted to language. Again: in a similar fashion, whales have flippers *because* they adapted to ocean.
>Because shit didn't work out that way?
For a *reason*. And humans came out on top for a *reason*. We live in a universe of cause and effect; things—even chance things—happen for a *reason*.

>>718571332
>he thinks 1500km/s is fast at the scale of space

>>718572568
>Intelligence isn't proved to be inherently tied to a human form factor
It kind of is. All types of animals feel pain, emotion, memory, but only one type of animal (humans) invents gods, conducts symphonies, performs science, records histories etc etc. Positing "other frames of reference" where there exists octopus aliens who can do interesting things as well is literally just science-fiction, not science.

>>718573030
Except that's not what's happening, in fact, that's what you're doing. You fall back on the hypothesis that the human form is essential to how intelligent you can become, when that is really just what you know, not objective reality.
THAT'S Epistemic fallacy.
You cannot make the accurate deduction of intelligence being tightly coupled to humanity's evolution as a singular path, there is no other frame of reference. it would be like saying space doesn't exist because we didn't have the ability to see it before. That's the classic argument theocratists and flat earthers would use.
> The version of "evolution" you are putting forward is backwards and nonsensical.
read the paper. Also, it is not similar at all, whales have flippers because they can't swim without it. We have language so we can be better at what we do. We had vocal tracts before we had language. But when grunts and pointing wasn't enough it evolved. We also see that humans assimilate language no matter where they are raised and what race they are , this makes the hypothesis that language is a more recent construct far more plausible.

Yes, a reason. We don't know the entire story of it. That reason isn't verifiably "Because we are hairless bipedal primates". What's so hard to accept about this for you? Even if you WERE right about this for planet earth, it's not a guaranteed reality for another planet. We had 5 extinction events.

>>718573259
Guess what the subject of this thread is. Having the power to abstract is NOT proven to be a uniquely human ability, therefore you cannot ascertain all creatures across the universe must go
> Amoeba => marine mammal => land mammal => primate => bipedal primate => Human
It's not a physical law of nature. Therefore you can play with it. And why not?

>>718573020
My thoughts exactly, except that I couldn't stomach Empyrion for only 5 hours.
In Space Engineers I have 1200 hours solo, never even touched multiplayer.

>>718573020
/v/ never talks about Space Engineers and honestly its a fucking fantastic game.

>>718551192
its shit, dont bother

>>718530317
Yeah and it's fucking BORING. You need to travel faster than light to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time and it just so happens we're located in a void of space within our own Milkyway galaxy. Also time dilation (don't get excited trannies) means if you make a return trip from another solar system, everyone you knew is dead and your civilization is probably extinct.

>>718569390
>LOGH is written by fucking nip woman
fizws

>>718573897
There's some talk in the /egg/ on /vg/ but I guess they rather engineer in other games mostly.
I for one fucking love it, I recently found a mod https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3351055036&searchtext=real+orbits where you create your own solar system and the planets have orbits, you can make moons and give even the moons more moons, and there's realistic orbital physics and re-entry stuff etc. It's fucking awesome.
Apparently I have subscribed to 810 Workshop items lmao, there's a LOT of mods and some of them are mindblowing like, how is it possible to do this shit in Space Engineers in the first place?
For example touch screens, they are LCD screens but you can click on the buttons with your crosshair.

>>718573897
it took a long time to get there. i've owned it since it was very rough, and it was only a year and a half ago or so that i put most of my hours into the game.
we made a gigantic mobile base, so big that i spent 10 mins crafting and mucking around on it without realizing my friend was driving it, stepped outside and we were in a completely different spot.

it had a huge drill under it too

>>718570591
all space is seeded by the same genome, life come from space and it have the same roots

>>718530019 (OP)
Outer space is 99% empty
Atoms are 99% empty
How the fuck does anything exist

Flat earthers are literal government psyop to distract from actual issues like wallstreet jews.

>>718574749
yes but they are soft disclosure psyop

>>718573879
>that's what you're doing
No, it isn't. I'm presenting an explanation for observable phenomena. The explanation is necessarily hypothetical, but that doesn't mean it can't grasp towards ontology. You're the one who is sputtering "correlation doesn't equal causation", as if we're stuck with correlations and can't grasp towards causes given the facts that exist (epistemic fallacy).
>there is no other frame of reference
Why? Why is there only this frame of reference? We inhabit a universe of cause and effect and there is a *reason* for this fact. Thus, I will base my explanation on 1) this frame of reference and 2) the fact that *this* frame of reference exists to the exclusion of others, rather than just speculating. This understanding is, in fact, what differentiates science from mere speculation, which is by definition the positing of alternative "frames of reference" (fantasy worlds) despite the facts.
>We had vocal tracts before we had language.
Yes, and the ancestors of whales had limbs before living in the ocean. They didn't, however, have flippers before living in the ocean. Whales evolved flippers in response to selection pressures exerted on them by their new—oceanic—environment; they did not "evolve them in advance" and then decide to live in the ocean. Mutatis mutandis, humans evolved unique vocal tracts in response to a selection pressure exerted on them by language. This is seriously basic evolutionary theory.
>What's so hard to accept about this for you?
My explanation is more powerful and parsimonious than yours, which involves pure, unscientific, speculation. There's nothing personal about this.

>>718530512
Discovered is a loaded term
It's like looking at the back of the box and then try to talk to others as if you are an experienced player of that game

>>718530854
I've got 600
I also just started playing Star Citizen
Lots of bugs
Otherwise pretty interesting

>>718573879
>therefore you cannot ascertain all creatures across the universe must go . . .
Actually we kind of can based on what we can observe in the animal kingdom. You can choose to believe otherwise, but you're doing science-fiction, not science.

>>718574749
Yes and they were just controlled opposition at first, you can make any kind of fringe movement look retarded by infiltrating them with flat earthers or similar kind of lunatics and make the whole group look retarded. Sadly some people began believing in their lies

>>718536003
Sounds like a shit game desu

Wouldn't a multigenerational ship eventually lead to inbreeding incest? Like if you sent out a ship to Alpha Centauri in a trip that takes 3-4 lifetimes, and is dependant on breeding the next generation, I'm not sure how you can get around that

>>718575137
flat earthers may be wrong but they are right that current model isnt right

>>718575949
What exactly is wrong with heliocentrism?

>>718575884
traced bloodlines and planned breeding, you could also carry frozen eggs/sperm to diversity
also you could make use of breeding methods used in livestock

>>718575949
Did nihilism exist when people thought the earth was the centre of the universe? Like if I genuinely believed that, I would think there was some significance and greater purpose for our existence, with the universe literally revolving around us

>>718576064
nothing, everything

>>718576141
Yeah so what exactly is wrong with heliocentrism?

>>718576141
Jupizoomer

>>718576182
It's not technically correct. If I removed the sun the earth would still orbit it as if it was there for at least 8 minutes. The earth is just going in a straight path on its local geodesic.
Moreover all the planets are actually orbiting the center of mass, which is not equal to the center of the sun. And the sun is really orbiting the nearest cluster which is orbiting the supermassive blackhole in the center of the milky way galaxy and so on.

>>718576109
some systems(not only solar but also political or economic) make people more nihilistic for sure
>>718576182
its outdated
>>718576295
take that back or trojans will be released

>>718576141
Not news to anyone here probably, but this little webm demonstrates why Jupiter has such a massive magnetic field

>>718576623
it also demonstrate that solar system creation theory is false
most of current solar system objects were probably captured from outside

>>718576623
Jupiter is quite fascinating

>>718576817
>>718576743
if you look at the whole movement of planets and their moons and other objects in relation to Sun that supposedly race through space - it really look fucking absurd

>>718576348
None of this invalidates heliocentrism, you've just re-framed it in general relativistic terms.

>>718576982
it invalidates heliocentrism because you literally need general relativity to explain real world observations though
and i haven't even mentioned dark matter yet which further complicates things

>>718577068
>>718576982
And you don't have to believe me, ask Wikipedia:

>Heliocentrism[a] (also known as the heliocentric model) is a superseded astronomical model in which Earth and planets orbit around the Sun at the center of the universe.

>Heliocentric universe – made obsolete by discovery of the structure of the Milky Way and the redshift of most galaxies. Heliocentrism only applies to the selected Solar System, and only approximately, since the Sun's center is not at the Solar System's center of mass. Superseded by barycentric coordinates.

sorry heliochud, it's not hecking valid

Don't click, it's spooky.

>>718577068
What observations confound heliocentrism?

>>718577206
>Heliocentric universe
We're not talking about this though. This >>718575949 was your original comment

>>718577206
>Because individual star systems orbit their black hole this means that uh heliocentrism is no longer uhhh valid uh okay???
What did you mean by this?

>>718577240
>>718577417
>>718577439

>>718577417
no, that was my comment, you argue with another anon

>>718576936
Only absurd if you're a brainlet who can't understand frame of reference.

>>718577439
Anon is just a smart ass who is conflating heliocentrism—a model of the solar system where the Sun is the dominant gravitational influence—with a pedantic demand for absolute precision across all scales and reference frames. Heliocentrism was never designed to account for the solar system’s motion within the galaxy or relativistic effects like the finite speed of gravity. It's a simplified, highly accurate model for describing planetary orbits relative to the Sun. Modern astronomy of course refines this model with concepts like barycenters and general relativity, but these refinements build upon, rather than invalidate, heliocentrism. His smart ass "critique" cherry-picks technical details out of context to create a false impression that heliocentrism is "not technically correct," when in fact it remains a robust and practical framework for understanding solar system dynamics.

>>718577632
hello chat gpt saar

>>718577608
midwits like you should keep their mouth shut

>>718577704
>argumentum ad pajeetum
Concession accepted

>>718577632
but you could tell the same about geocentric model
both are mathematics models that were used to explain observation, both were simplistic and correct as far as math go

>>718577632
Honestly that's what I figured. Typical smarmy midwit behaviour. I really like his idea that redshift and relativity somehow invalidate a local frame of reference because our sun moves.

>>718577785
you don't even deny it

>>718530186
Neh, it's about the danger, most space games are harmless in their approach to space, at worst you will get RPG style high level zone when enemies just blast you in seconds.
My best memories from Starsector were fucking up mundane things and dying as result, like running out of fuel and tending to a system with neutron star, or letting autopilot fly too close to the star fucking up my ships and deleting my supplies.
This is why I love Cosmoteer, you make a small mistake in your ship's design and you just fucking die, this is what space is all about.

>>718567759
>Wrong word.
akshually ass nigga

>>718577849
No, I couldn't. Heliocentrism is orders of magnitude more parsimonious than geocentrism, whereas the difference in parsimony between heliocentrism and heliocentrism+relativity is a hair's breadth.
Now begone, midwit smart ass!

>>718578060
don't steal my insults you brown faggot

>>718577849
>tell the same
ironic to be calling anyone else indian like this

>>718577949
You didn't even deny that you conceded (I accept it, by the way).

>>718577849
Saying that the heliocentric model is wrong because the Sun moves around Sag A* is like saying that the Bohr model of the atom is wrong because the whole atom moves through space... the electrons still orbit the nucleus either way, dipshit.

>>718578117
it was other anon that named you pajeet
he was right, I just checked it from curiosity

>>718578216
None of this has anything to with the substance of the argument. It's just ad hominem.

>>718530019 (OP)
yes and nobody here has been to space, so all space games just make up fake shit that unwitting audiences goble up

>>718578301
then don't try to use chatgpt to win internet arguments
that shit only make you look like a fake and a fag

>>718578301
t. seething jeet exposed for being a chat gpt saar

>>718578334
>yes and nobody here has been to space,
well your mother takes up so much space there is nothing left

>>718578429
To retards, perhaps.
>>718578485
If it's "pajeet ai sloppa" you should have no problem refuting it. You won't be able to, of course, because it's all factual. You got fucking owned and now you're impotently seething LMAO

>>718578640
please do the needful and provide the prompt saar

>>718530019 (OP)
It's because too many people just can't apply creativity to a domain they're not used to.
>Is the sea an inherently boring setting? It's 99.9999% open water.
>Are plains an inherently boring setting? They're 99.9999% grass.
>Are swamps an inherently boring setting? They're 99.9999% mud.
>Are mountains an inherently boring setting? They're 99.9999% jagged rock.
>>718534376
Basically this.

Time to learn with Grok:
>If I removed the sun, the earth would still orbit it as if it was there for at least 8 minutes.
This statement is misleading in its implication that it invalidates heliocentrism. The claim refers to the finite speed of gravity’s effect (propagating at the speed of light, ~8 minutes from the Sun to Earth). If the Sun were hypothetically removed, the Earth would continue its orbital motion for about 8 minutes because the gravitational influence would take that long to cease. However, this is not a critique of heliocentrism but rather a consequence of general relativity and the finite speed of light. Heliocentrism, as a model, describes the Earth orbiting the Sun due to its gravitational dominance, not instantaneous interactions. This point is irrelevant to the validity of heliocentrism as a simplified and accurate description of planetary motion in the solar system.
>The earth is just going in a straight path on its local geodesic.
This statement invokes general relativity, where objects follow geodesics (the equivalent of "straight lines" in curved spacetime) under gravitational influence. While technically true in the framework of general relativity, this does not contradict heliocentrism. In Newtonian mechanics (which heliocentrism historically relies on), the Earth’s orbit is an ellipse caused by the Sun’s gravity. In general relativity, this motion is described as a geodesic in the spacetime curved by the Sun’s mass. Both descriptions are consistent with the Earth orbiting the Sun, so this point does not undermine heliocentrism; it merely reframes it in a more advanced theoretical context.

>>718576817
me and the boys running in circles for eternity

>>718578640
nah, its wasted effort
you already outsourced your thinking to chatgpt
and its not factual, its just current consensus that will change eventually(like always) with more discoveries
you are below retards, just brain dead, electronic zombie

>>718578824
>All the planets are actually orbiting the center of mass, which is not equal to the center of the sun.
This is partially correct but misrepresents its significance. The Sun and planets orbit their mutual center of mass (the barycenter), which is typically close to or within the Sun due to its overwhelming mass (about 99.86% of the solar system’s total mass). For practical purposes, the barycenter is often near the Sun’s center, so heliocentrism’s approximation that planets orbit the Sun is highly accurate. The slight offset of the barycenter (e.g., due to Jupiter’s influence) is a minor correction accounted for in modern orbital mechanics but does not invalidate heliocentrism as a useful model. The critique exaggerates this technicality to falsely suggest heliocentrism is incorrect.
>The sun is really orbiting the nearest cluster which is orbiting the supermassive black hole in the center of the Milky Way galaxy and so on.
This statement is true in a broader cosmological context but irrelevant to heliocentrism. The Sun orbits the Milky Way’s galactic center (near the supermassive black hole Sagittarius A*) on a timescale of about 225–250 million years, and the Milky Way is part of the Local Group, which has its own dynamics. However, heliocentrism specifically describes the motion of planets within the solar system relative to the Sun. These larger-scale motions occur on vastly different scales and do not negate the fact that the Sun is the primary gravitational influence on the planets. The critique confuses different frames of reference and scales, incorrectly implying that heliocentrism claims to describe all cosmic motion.
Thanks Grok!

>>718578776
>>718578854
Do you guys really think that a post longer than a sentence = ai generated? You know humans can compose complex thoughts too, right?

>>718578854
>its wasted effort
Coooope. You're just dumb and wrong and can't refute it. You're lower than an electronic zombie—you're quivering, insensate, worthless biomass. Get fucking owned.

>>718578887
>>718578824
chat gpt saar, meet grok saar

>>718578824
>>718578887
Very effective technique to instantly shut down schizo posters. I shall try this in the future.

>>718578961
I hate to break it to you champ but neither him nor his phone he's samefagging with are serious. He ignored every other argument and picked one to spam SAAR at because it's easier

>>718536003
>>no enemy faction that’s just you from a failed timeline
I like this one.

>>718574514
I want us to one day do this to Jupiter. Build a shell world around it and inhabit it with hundreds of separated worlds like this.

>>718579227
>jeet is reduced to asking chat gpt saar and grok saar for help because he is too dumb
>doesn't even show prompts
>complains about unserious samefagging

kek keep it up saar

>>718531429
lmao

it's still better than a jeet programmer though

>>718536003
>no weapons powered by memories you have to give up
Sounds like something out of Sunless Sea

>>718531995
I like this game but it doens't have much depth to it

>>718579467
You have been soundly defeated in the Marketplace of Ideas. Better luck next time.

>>718530019 (OP)
Yes most planets that exist will be like Pluto

>>718579567
t. seething jeet

>>718579051
no, I refuse
stay salty

>>718532616
I can't wait to get dementia so I can replay this over and over again
>>718533241
>top 3
name the other 2

>>718530019 (OP)
No, it's just that most sci-fi settings focus entirely on muh human tech and muh intergalactic human civilizations with humanoid aliens and robots and other gay shit and refuse to explore what actually makes space interesting and cool.
I don't want to see space suits and futurism and gay little manmade structures, nor do I want to see popsci bullshit that got debunked decades ago. I want to explore the majesty of space and learn to thrive in it. Decenter humans, make aliens legitimately alien, drop the sci-fi conventions aside from maybe Lovecraft, and treat it like a fantasy setting, and you're golden. It's that simple.

>>718575098
You're being reductionist to the core of what i'm saying, I hope it's not on purpose. You only ever saw one kingdom on one planet, how can you know exactly how this will play out? We can't even explain the majority of the mechanisms in our own body, we just don't have the capacity for that (yet). This is where speculation exists. Many of what you think are common truths (common in microbiology) are more like educated assumptions based on pattern recognition. We lack the tooling to reach this conclusion this early on.

>>718574805
> but that doesn't mean it can't grasp towards ontology
That's just saying Dragons and god exists cause I can't prove it doesn't. Like, yes? maybe? That's kind of the same as aliens who are sentient non-humanoids, ey.
> You're the one who is sputtering "correlation doesn't equal causation"
It doesn't.
> as if we're stuck with correlations and can't grasp towards causes given the facts that exist (epistemic fallacy).
A. Not what I said
B. Not what Epistemic fallacy means.
> The epistemic fallacy, a term introduced by Roy Bhaskar in his development of critical realism, refers to the erroneous reduction of what exists (ontology) to what can be known or measured (epistemology) (Bhaskar, 1989). In the context of education, this manifests in the assumption that measurable outcomes, such as test scores, fully capture the effectiveness of teaching methods or educational interventions.
Assuming all sentients are humanoids because we only found sentiency in humanoids is an epistemic fallacy.
> Why? Why is there only this frame of reference?
That's all we found. It's not necessarily all that exists.
> We inhabit a universe of cause and effect and there is a *reason* for this fact.
Please don't pull the god argument.
> the fact that *this* frame of reference exists to the exclusion of others,
You have no right to make that claim.
> what differentiates science from mere speculation
like claiming only bipedal primates can be sentient?

>>718533341
some people are just retards who need constant whizbangs going off in front of them to be entertained

hunt for red october is a good movie even though sub combat is a whole lot of sitting around doing fuck all and then 10 minutes of intense panic and tension

>>718579415
Most of jupiter's moons are just shitty ice rocks too small to have any gravity

>>718573030
>For a *reason*.
This is stupid. You know what the other anon means.
>>718574805
You have a point somewhere in here but it's covered in unadulterated autism.

>>718548587
>Idea Guy should be a legitimate paid position

shigeru miyamoto, hideo kojima etc. are all idea guys that don't actually have any legit skills to make vidya

>>718560884
my pc fucking sucks :(

For anyone who likes the idea of Stellaris but not Stellaris itself, keep an eye on Ascendance.

>>718565859
>Starfield has cooler art, gunplay and it's ships are way nicer


Star Citizen assets look like if you ask AI to make " a cool sci-fi universe"

It's all generic as fuck, pointless detail that makes zero sense when you look at it for more than a sec and shit stolen from every other sci-fi IP

Reminder that gravity strength pull is equal to 1/distance^2.
Once you are "close" to a larger mass it doesn't functionality matter is there is something 100 times larger if it's 1000 times further away.
Take that on a galaxy scale and where a large sun is 200 times heavier than sol.
If that star was 1 light year away from earth as opposed to 8.5 light minutes, sol is still 3.8 billion times the gravitational effect as that theoretical large star.

>>718560804
no nigga play this

>>718580413
everyone can at least intuit that much, there's just the one retard pretending not to for replies

You could say that about anywhere?
>The ocean is boring, its 99% empty
>America is boring, its 99% empty

>>718574423
The worst part about time dilation is that you have to pay the time saved back when you try to slow down.

>>718561337
the saddest part is that the moon is actually getting further away from us each year, mind you we're talking centimeters and it won't fully escape the earth's orbit but in aproximately 50 billion years only one side of earth will be able to see the moon due to a tidal lock

>>718530019 (OP)
what game

>>718564562
>It's almost always, ALWAYS such a lazy, narcissistic human-centric presentation of what life could be.
now YOU are acting like a dumb fuck, because to sustain intelligent space faring life its physically impossible for an alien race to NOT BE human shaped due to how intelligence and evolution works

its like bitching that fantasy riding races are quadrupeds, they HAVE to be quadrupeds or else how the fuck do you think you can ride them? nigger faggot

>>718580725
The sun has about 2 billion years of life left and when it goes to the supergiant phase it'll likely swallow up the earth.

There won't be an earth or moon to worry about in 50 billion years.

>>718580725
The earth will be uninhabitable due to the expansion of the sun in a billion or so anyway.

>>718579916
>Assuming all sentients are humanoids because we only found sentiency in humanoids is an epistemic fallacy.
No, it isn't. Epsitemic fallacy is a phrase you learned just hours ago, from me, and as a result you don't understand what it means. A willingness to affirm ontology over epistemology and deduce unknowable but hypothesizable causal mechanisms from facts doesn't mean "anything goes". As it stands, there aren't any facts from which to deduce your speculations--it's pure speculation.
>Please don't pull the god argument.
That would be you, who believes the universe cannot be explained and that things do not have a reason for existance to be found within a web of cause and effect. Things simply *happen* in your universe; intelligent life resembles what it resembles (Homo sapiens) because, well, it just does, okay? And because there's no reason that it does, there's no reason that it doesn't as well, and, thus, intelligent life could resmeble anything!
This is magical thinking, not science.

we can't get good space games anymore because the split second you present something with imagination and wonder you get Reddit Sciencebrains giving you the good old 'acshully' and screeching to high heaven that you had a green alien woman or a spaceship that's anything beyond a soul-crushingly hideous committee-approved ''''NASApunk'''' design.

>>718580023
Lazy, substanceless responses. Why even bother replying?

>>718580921
the sun will lose mass as it expands so the orbit of earth may expand to let it get away from that, so it'll just be scorched beyond recognition from the heat instead

>>718580921
>>718580931
>hurr
well no shit we will all die as a race even before the sun explodes, I was talking hypotethically even if earth survives the moon will keep going away and be tidal locked in a front facing dance which is kinda poetic and sad in a way

Is there a space game that lets you walk around your spaceship in real time while it's traveling and decorate it, talk with crew npcs etc?

>>718581217
no

>>718580853
NTA but are you retarded? All you need is neuron-type cells (able to relay and retain complex information) and the ability to use tools. Give an octopus a century-long lifespan, no natural predators other than maybe shit you'll never meet like polar bears, consistent social networks, and a few dozen thousand years of evolution and you'll get space travel. You don't need to be humanoid at all; arguably, you'd be better off as a giant tardigrade or something for the sake of higher efficiency resource management.

>>718581260
Damn. Why has no one done this yet?

>>718581335
>Give an octopus a century-long lifespan, no natural predators other than maybe shit you'll never meet like polar bears, consistent social networks, and a few dozen thousand years of evolution and you'll get space travel.
Absolutely retarded, pure, fantastical speculation. If it were that simple, then where is all the octopus intelligence on Earth? The reason why we don't get octopus intelligence in the universe is because it's all outcompeted by human intelligence.

>>718580935

You're a retard and you're completely misrepresenting what's being said, probably because you're a dogmatic retard. Yes, intelligent life could resemble anything because you cannot predict or describe every set of evolutionary pressures that would result in the formation of intelligent life. You can describe one, and you've stupidly decided that's the ONLY set of pressures and it can ONLY result in a single type of organism. This is obviously moronic on its face, but it's doubly moronic because humanity hasn't stopped evolving, evolution doesn't just decide its landed on the best possible iteration of life and stop happening. If you had a functioning brain you probably could have realized this and saved yourself a lot of typing and embarrassment. I'd suggest you do a little self reflection and learn to be less close minded about science and reality but we both know you're a stubborn retard and you'll just keep pretending you're right and can never be corrected.
Dipshit.

>>718530512
It's not even 0.00000000000000005%
There are more planets in the habitable zone than grains of sand on every beach on earth. We have barely even explored the planets/moons in our own solar system, let alone the planets outside of it.

>>718581335
I love it when pseudo wanna be intellectuals spout random science facts that are completely made up but they are convincend that using big words and LE SERIOUS GRAMMAR PUNCTUATION will automatically make them right

every fucking time, you guys are my favourite clowns

Space isn’t real

>>718581335
>consistent social networks
That's one of the theorized reasons octopus were never able to become a dominant species. They are incredibly intelligent and learn very well, but since they lack any socialization, they can't pass down information. Every new octopus has to relearn everything outside of base instincts.
Alternatively, imagine octopus with parental combined and full genetic memory.

space is boring because devs make it boring.

None of you have read "The Swarm" and it really shows

>>718577745
Yup. Confirmed retard.

>>718582093
stay mad

>>718582018
But then what do the apes do?

>>718580935
Nah, magical thinking is you ignoring references I posted, including definitions, making assertions you can't back, making strawman arguments about my stance just because I want to see the possibility of a non humanoid species that's intelligent in a sci fi setting (which you cannot, at this point, no matter what you say, no matter how hard you phrase your assertations, declare that doesn't exist or is improbable under the conception of alien life).

This is almost like arguing in theory that the Dodo would not have existed had we not observed it. You can't make that claim.
> That would be you, who believes the universe cannot be explained
Now I'm starting to question your comprehension abilities. I think I made it very clear that we don't have the tooling for that yet, not that it's impossible to find out. That's completely a made up assertion you made to fit YOUR argument. it's disingenuous and doesn't make me feel like you have good faith in this whatsoever.
> things do not have a reason for existance
Conflating cause and effect deductive reasoning with metaphysical reasoning is disappointing and as someone who seems eager to flaunt his vocabulary you should do better.
> Things simply *happen* in your universe
Read above.
> intelligent life resembles what it resembles (Homo sapiens) because, well, it just does, okay?
Also, not what I said. I just said neither you, nor any scientist has yet put a definitive reasoning for why Cognitive Intelligence HAS to come with a human form factor. You haven't provided facts here. Magical thinking is thinking that you got all the answers because you have nothing better. This is similar to a geocentric or a theological argument.

>>718582147
Ok retard.

>>718581512
Because it's hard and doesn't really add anything to most games. Yes it is a really cool idea, but nowadays you can simply look at star citizen to see that walkable ships add nothing but tedium to a game, and increase the dev time per ship by an order of magnitude due to now having to model and level design entire ships.

It's one of those features I still hope one day might work, but it hasn't yet.

>>718582219
you don't need to sign yourself every time

>>718582307
>retard attempts witty comeback
Lmao.

>>718581689
>Yes, intelligent life could resemble anything
Moron who doesn't believe in cause and effect and reason, and as consequence science or even explanation; a true relic from the bicameral age--ooga booga! I may as well be speaking to fucking slime mould.
Cease replies to me and kys, moron.

>>718581909
Animals can have pretty complex instinctive behaviors "programmed" into them right from birth without needing a parent to impart information in some way. Intelligence increases from large social groups (humans, dolphins, ravens) because a larger brain is needed to navigate their complexity. Solitary animals won't ever develop to that point because they don't have a reason to.

>>718530019 (OP)
It's boring if you are stuck being a ship. If you can actually either get out of your ship and explore, or at least walk around your ship to fix problems, then it's not so boring. When you're just a ship then you are basically just playing either an aerial action game, with a more empty and boring playing field, or a shitty racing/car combat game with a more boring and empty track.

>>718571332
PSR J1748−2446ad spins at about 70,000 km/s, which is wild since it's less than 32km in diameter. The magnetic field from that thing alone would disintegrate you.

>>718582478
I could take it

>>718531429
AGI
G
I

>>718582350
still got you, stay mad

>>718530512
we haven't even discovered 0.5%

The real problem is that flying airplanes is fun, but flying spaceships isn't. So they put airplanes in space, but now you have airplanes flying everywhere without any limitations, without air, without the ground and mountains, etc.
Space games are all crap when the focus is on making the player actually fly spaceships.
Another thing is that Newtonian physics sucks and isn't that intuitive because humans have evolved to deal with the consequences of being in an environment with friction and air resistance. So flying spaceships by just applying thrust while inertia does the rest isn't as visceral and fun as driving vehicles on Earth, whether air, land, or sea.

>>718582218
This is a sloppy reply; scatterbrained declarations interspersed with underhanded ad hominem--I fear you've somewhat lost the plot. If you truly believe that an anonymous interlocuter who is willing to discourse with you on these matters, who has nothing material to gain from these interactions, and who is even willing to teach you in the process is doing so in "bad faith", then the conversation cannot go any further and I can only accuse you of something even more intense. A reply to this declaring some sort of victory would confirm my suspicions.

Still waiting for Space Engineers like MMO based on TRAPPIST-1 system, with key resources being spread over different planets and possibility to populate lagrange points.

>>718581643
>where is all the octopus intelligence on Earth?
On Earth. Octopuses (and cephalopods in general, really) are as close yet alien to human intelligence as it gets, they're just nerfed by a variety of factors like >>718581909, high-stress environments since they're low on the food chain, and year-long lifespans.
The point is that an alien species capable of space travel could very well have no humanoid features at all. You could build something believable just by combining a few existing life forms on Earth, adapting them to the evolutionary pressures of another planet, and call it a day. We're never meeting another spacefaring race while our planet's still blue anyway, so it's not like it matters. I'd take some kind of fucked up octopus-elephant-e. coli-crow combo or whatever over yet another human-insect hybrid any day, since at least the former's new and legitimately foreign.
>>718581808
>big words and LE SERIOUS GRAMMAR PUNCTUATION
What?

>>718538267
Starfield replaces the boring parts with boring fiddly menus. And then they replace the interesting parts with procedurally generated slop.

>>718581842
>but a dead jew 2000 years ago was

>>718583418
>they're just nerfed by a variety of factors
Backwards evolutionary thinking. They aren't nerfed by these factors, these factors are a reflection of their environments that they're actually optimized for. Octopus life on other planets, by definition, would similarly be nerfed.

>>718583808
Imagine believing in “our” year system
We’re just animals living day by day trying not to die and get food, our education system tries to teach us to believe a certain way and take you of your energy. If Yahweh jeshua was real he would have saved us by now

>>718583119
None of us has anything to gain from making shitty forgettable posts that disappear within hours on a Laotian Spindle wheeling forum, let's not kid ourselves. I could be finishing my projects, so this is procrastination.

Taking the position of a "master" and then again and again putting words in my mouth and ignoring my points and making up things I didn't say (Notice you still haven't admitted to me never claiming that there's no reason for anything), is incredibly arrogant and acting supposedly patient with me in a place where we can just freely call each other niggerfaggot does not, in fact, impress me - as I have more than given you the same courtesy here.

Do also consider that, as you may or may not have noticed, English isn't my main language, so spare me acting as if your vocabulary positions you above my own statements.

There is no victory here, because I feel like you already chose not to engage with the subject matter I have already several times explained to you in my meaning, and that you failed to argue against - which is that there is no definitive proof, or logical basis beyond correlative reasoning, that evolution can only lead to bipedal primates having cognitive intelligence. That is just not a statement anyone can or effectively even has made. It's just a common mainstay in fiction because it's easier for humans to anthromorph things.

I am not going to answer to you like the other person did, but I do agree self reflection would be a decent course of action.

You can feel free to ignore me and my "sloppy" replies from here on.

>>718581217
Thinking about it, they could've done this with mass effect. They did it with the elevator moments though those were just really fancy loading screens from what I've heard.

>>718584210
Using my tutelage to moralize against me and portray me as some sort of psychic tyrant, *and*, prior to this, attempting to present yourself as more knowledgable on this specific matter (Bhaskar), which was quite obviously not the case, is both profoundly ungrateful and deceptive. The latter, in retrospect, was a step too far, and I should have terminated the conversation then and there--alas, I relented.

I don't believe you have afforded me the same courtesy here--no. A cursory glance at the comment chain reveals the insults to be unilateral. I've in fact done you a profound courtesy by not commenting on them until now.

As it stands, my position stands unscathed--you have failed to inflict so much as a scratch on it. I hope your confusion here is the simple result of the language barrier, but I fear bad faith may be at play. I hope the self-reflection you speak of is intended for yourself.