Thread 718700437

Not trying to bait, not trying to be a contrarian.
What's so special about hollow knight?
I played for an hour and it felt just like a typical metroidvania with no special gimmick or spice that makes it different from shit like Blasphemous, Dead Cells, Salt and Santuary etc.

world design is really good

>>718700437 (OP)
>I played it for an hour
There's your mistake
Hollow Knight does not become fun until around 5 hours in
Personally, I think they should have made the game fun even during the beginning

>>718700523
false, most of it is boring as fuck

No idea, random 2D shit like the new Ninja gaiden game mogs it in gameplay.
zoomers just love funko pops and slow boring shit

Good music, pretty art, combat is very simple but flows well. It's just a pleasant playthrough. I'm not as into it as others but it's a very well made game

>>718700627
>t. played it for an hour

>>718700437 (OP)
lots of content, great atmosphere, fantastic ost, very polished for an indie game, good gameplay if a bit formulaic, good difficulty curve

it's a good game and this shitty brown board contrarianism won't change this fact

>>718700437 (OP)
>Blasphemous, Dead Cells, Salt and Santuary
Those are all extremely different games with unique mechanics. I guess the answer to your question is, you are just a retard.

>>718700437 (OP)
OP the reason HK got popular is simply because it consistently goes on sale for $12 and is simple for normies to play. That's literally it.

>>718700437 (OP)
It was the first Metroidvania, of course it has no special gimmick.

>>718700692
Thread should stop here but millions of retarded contrarians will still pile up to give us their shit opinions

>>718700704
I beat the game, retard. Granted I only beat the hollow knight and got the "bad ending" but at that point I just wanted it to be over.

>>718700437 (OP)
Instead of posting like a faggot how about you try playing a video game for once in your pathetic life?

>"i played for an hour and-"
kill yourself
ori 2 is better though.

>>718700824
sure, anon, I believe you

I love silly bugs

>>718700692
/thread

also, add mysterious worldbuilding to make fans theorize for quite a while and want more from it.

>>718700437 (OP)
ok, now tell me your favorite game so I can shit on it too

HK is a game ur told ur supposed to like but when pressed to articulate why the fans just start screeching autistically

>>718700523
This is wrong. World sucks. The characters look cute. That's it.

>>718700927
I fucking HATED the dream nail shit dude are u kidding me??? half the platforming challenges reward you with dumbshit LORE i could give less of a shit about.

>>718700437 (OP)
It's a good game

>>718700861
Ori 1 is better too

>>718700965
no, that's deltatroon

It’s a perfectly acceptable metroidvania game in an era where most of them suck shit. 7/10, it’s ok.

>cute
>atmospheric
>not very difficult unless you play content specifically designed to be challenging
>but also doesn't hold your hand
>charming characters and character designs
>good OST
It's not really anything special, but everything it does it does well enough. The big thing is that it's cute, easy, and atmospheric, so it appeals to women and gets a FUCK TON of merchandising.

>>718700928
you guys are such fucking babies every time we have this thread. I am BEGGING you to expand your metroidvania horizons a bit.

>>718700437 (OP)
It’s better than e33

>>718700741
It has lots of gimmicks

>>718701112
Ori 1 is like 8 hours long. Ori 2 is barely 10. Sure, I enjoyed them both, but come on.

>>718700741
>first metroidvania
normally I would consider this bait but I genuinely think this is what hollow knight babs truly believe????

>>718701314
Quality > Quantity

I recommend you watch some video essays on it. Hollow Knight breaks you.

>>718701314
>this slop is better because i can slurp it for longer!!!!!!!!

>>718700437 (OP)
it's an 8/10 with a ton of content in a sea of 1/10 slop over the last decade

>>718700437 (OP)
something something zoomers

>>718701564
you need to raise your standards if HK is an 8/10 to you. I'm saying this out of genuine worry for you.

>>718700437 (OP)
It hit the market at the right time, in the early Switch days when the system had a lot of units sold, but very little software. And it also received the usual critical buff that indies get for being indies. A lot of the people who really really like this game were probably 14 when it came out and played it on their Switch, having never played a Castlevania.

name better metroidvanias than HK, minimum of 3

>>718701767
Much more charitable than I would have put it but you hit the nail on the head. The price-point especially made it extremely popular.

>>718701848
Symphony of The Night
Portrait of Ruin
Rabi-Ribi

>>718701848
Axiom Verge
Guacamelee
Ori

>>718702009
All 3 of these are terrible

>>718701767
I was 24 at the time, having played Super Metroid, SOTN, Metroid Prime prior. Come on. All of this is pure contrarianism.

>>718700437 (OP)
same

>>718702063
you havent played any of these, faggot zoomer retard

>>718701848
Metroid 1
Metroid 2
Metroid 3

>>718702138
I've played all 3, granted I only tried the demo for Ori and dropped it. They aren't even old games.

>>718702238
>they aren't even old games
I know ur a zoomer faggot because you list age as a qualifier for why ppl would like something

It’s got great atmosphere and fun combat, even the platforming is good. I had lots of moments exploring that gave me that “joy of discovery” feeling I got in the original Dark Souls and I’ve rarely had that feeling in a game since.

>>718702356
No I didn't, you asserted I was a zoomer first. I'm in my 30's.

>>718700437 (OP)
me when people hype up any lame 2d indie

Why does HK have lost dark souls currency?
It's the most retarded shit i have seen

>>718702356
Those are terrible
>t. not a zoomer

>>718702009
Guacamelee is very mediocre

>>718700437 (OP)
The bossfights are great.
General movement feels good.
Everything else, particularly the world design, map layout, progression, power curve, excessive backtracking, and disrespect for player's time are fucking abysmal and weight the game down massively.

>>718701960
>Portrait of Ruin
Why did you pick the worst DS game? HK is better than both that and Symphony.

>>718702491
because the entire game is one big "muh dark souls" gamejam shat out in a year

>>718702594
>world design
>map layout
>bad
strongly disagree. The interconnected map (and multiple paths) is one of the strongest aspects of the game. Most other games in the genre get it wrong, and end up with a series of linear zones.

>>718700437 (OP)
Its like I told you before: Hollow Knight is the Chainsaw Man of Metroidvanias. It doesnt iterate creatively on any one core element of its genre, it just does everything competently and happened to release at the right place and right time to earn an obssesive following of consumers that cannot identify mediocrity.

>>718702629
it isn't even better than circle of the moon

>>718701765
>can't even have above-average games that I like anymore
ok faggot, name at least three 8/10's
pro tip: you're going to absolutely beclown yourself

>>718701515
Hihi

>>718702732
HK is overhyped but not redditshart man levels of overhyped

>>718700437 (OP)
It’s big and has good music. It’s just a good normal metroidvania.

>>718702831
Kenshi
Left 4 Dead
Aria of Sorrow

>>718701848
Wait, sit down for this one.

Prince of persia The lost crown.

I know nobody here has played it, but fuck that game is good

>>718700437 (OP)
Blasphemous doesn't do anything interesting either.

>>718702702
No, it's legitimately terrible. The map straight up feels like it was randomly generated and they just strew a hundred gates all over the map at random. There is no sense of progression, no rhyme or reason or coherence to where you're supposed to go.

You find a powerup, then you just do a big fucking loop around the entire map and check every gate, maybe you marked a couple that seemed important, maybe you remembered the vague area where a few were, but that's all you can do.

And most of the time those gates have nothing of relevance behind them, just a bit of essence, a merchant that sells a couple items, a lore tidbit, a shortcut with no cutback, a rotten egg, a bit of geo, a grubworm (read: a bit of geo), etc.

>>718700437 (OP)
Nothing. You'll get people throwing out buzzwords to attempt obfuscateing the fact that they like the aesthetics and presentation specifically. The actual meat and bones, gameplay and level design, is basic as fuck and not worth discussing.

>>718700437 (OP)
Satisfying movement and bosses that make full use of said movement.

>>718703086
this is why I say HK fans havent played their own game. the world layout is fucking dreadful.

>>718703086
>Why isn't a genre about exporation telling me where to go?

>>718702987
>meme/10
>fun with friends/10
>9/10
as expected, you're a fucking idiot without any standards

>>718703086
Did we play the same game here?
You might be legitimately retarded

>>718701960
>>718702009
>>718703007
>>718703008
All great games.

>>718702542
Guacamelee has better platforming segments than most of the genre.

>>718703112
finally starting to feel like i'm not going insane seeing actual criticism of this game from another person here for a change.

>>718700523
>go into new area
>every part u enter looks the same as the last with nothing to make each stand apart
it has some of the shittiest world design i know. Just because it has 20 poorly designed areas doesnt mean its better than a game that has 3-4 that are amazingly unique where u can actually tell each part of the area apart.

>718703086
>718703218
obvious samefag
not worth a (You)

>>718703008
>Blasphemous doesn't do anything interesting either.
It's THE most Christian game even made. Local illiterate LARPers can't even appreciate just how Christian it is. You can see that devs are deeply familiar with the subject.

>>718703253
l4d is fun with bots retard you're just too young to separate it from ACTUAL friendslop like peak or lethal company

>>718703379
Zoomers really have no short term memory.

>>718703379
>>718703275

I wish Ori was the one everyone was copying, i much prefer fun platforming abilities in 2D than bossrush slop

>>718703459
What does that have to do with the gameplay

>>718703459
Superficially Catholic, but it’s its own fantasy world.

>>718703523
if you aren't keen on metroidvanias, play platformers instead.

>>718703392
delude yourself into your personal little wholesome smol bean bug hugbox then, faggot. Sorry that not everyone just accepts that ur supposed to like HK "because ur just SUPPOSED to, okay?????"

Ori felt better movement/exploration wise, i'll say that much.

>>718700741
the first hollowlike

>>718703253
I mean exploration would work fine if the game didn't have hundreds of arbitrary gates thrown up everywhere that have to be approached in a specific order using a sequence of hidden upgrades and massive amounts of forced backtracking.

Also the game is extremely samey for how massive it is, rooms are just generic, unmemorable and just all blend together, even much worse than in Super Metroid, which is especially an issue as HK has a much larger map and zero form of player guidance.

Additionally, there is a lot more "snaking" in HK's map design so if you need to head in a certain general direction, it's near impossible to tell which path leads there without a map, because paths constantly weave and snake around in every which direction. Seems like a minor nitpick, but really makes navigation a total fucking pain in the ass and basically a complete waste of time before you get the region map.

Essentially, Hollow Knight is just a game with very little thought or understanding put into its world layout from amateur gamedevs that don't understand game design principles that have been around for decades.

>>718703275
Hollowcuck fans that think Hollow Knights map is ANYTHING like Super Metroid are actually fucking delusional and retarded. The map literally feels like they just took a linear game, and at the last minute decided to fucking contort and cram it all together in one giant interconnected clusterfuck amalgamation, before throwing up a hundred of gates around and calling it a day.

>>718703635
Sorry that you're retarded and get confused when an exploration-focused platformer wants you to explore and map things out. It's literally a core part of the genre.

>>718703606
I like Metroid too but none of them play like it

>>718701146
Name some please.

>>718703242
I mean exploration would work fine if the game didn't have hundreds of arbitrary gates thrown up everywhere that have to be approached in a specific order using a sequence of hidden upgrades and massive amounts of forced backtracking.

Also the game is extremely samey for how massive it is, rooms are just generic, unmemorable and just all blend together, even much worse than in Super Metroid, which is especially an issue as HK has a much larger map and zero form of player guidance.

Additionally, there is a lot more "snaking" in HK's map design so if you need to head in a certain general direction, it's near impossible to tell which path leads there without a map, because paths constantly weave and snake around in every which direction. Seems like a minor nitpick, but really makes navigation a total fucking pain in the ass and basically a complete waste of time before you get the region map.

Essentially, Hollow Knight is just a game with very little thought or understanding put into its world layout from amateur gamedevs that don't understand game design principles that have been around for decades.

>>718703275
Hollowcuck fans that think Hollow Knights map is ANYTHING like Super Metroid are actually fucking delusional and retarded. The map literally feels like they just took a linear game, and at the last minute decided to fucking contort and cram it all together in one giant interconnected clusterfuck amalgamation, before throwing up a hundred of gates around and calling it a day.

>>718703769
True, the Ori games are barely a metroidvania at all.

These threads really show how low IQ this board is.

>>718703842
Metroidvanias are barely Metroid, they should be renamed to Soulsvanias

>>718703749
You should WANT to explore new places yet every new area in HK feels like a chore to explore with hardly any reward for doing so.

HOLLOW KNIGHT IS FOR WHITE GAMERS.
DELTARUNE IS FOR WHITE GAMERS.
ANTHRO PORN IS FOR WHITE GAMERS.
SORRY BROWN SKINS, PUBG IS DOWN THE HALL.

>>718703467
>not even reaching the game's middling, full potential online
LMFAO HE EVEN DOESN'T HAVE FRIENDS TO PLAY WITH
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
THE BECLOWNING CONTINUES!

>>718703786
literally ANY Metroid or Castlevania. retard

>>718703970
What do you mean, you can find another pile of coins.

>>718701146
The only truly great "metroidvanias" are hollow knight and la mulana. Hell, they should rename the genre hollow mulanas, maybe then some good games would get made. Stop whining that people aren't playing your dogshit.

>>718703820
There are multiple parts of HK where you can choose an entirely different route, get certain abilities far earlier than in a typical playthrough, and access "late-game" areas when you're barely explored 1/5th of the map. Did I claim it's on par with Super Metroid? No, but nice strawman attempt nonetheless.

If you struggled with the map layout, that is entirely a skill issue on your part. All the tools to navigate the map are available to you. What do you want, a fucking arrow pointing you where to go at all times? You have a map and pins for a reason, use them retard.

>>718704070
Already played them before Hollow Knight. They’re great and so is Hollow Knight.

>>718703856
Doesnt take a high IQ to tell the game is a poorly done platformer with very easy combat that just survives off the cutesy doodle art. Compared to stuff like Ninesols it is laughably bad.

>>718703970
>>718704074
You explore to gain new abilities and fight bosses, numbnuts

>>718703970
Exploration is the reward you retarded zoomer.

>>718704129
>Ninesols
>stamina meters in 2D
That game was made by Aids Satan

>>718703008
unlike reddit knight, it has soul and interesting locations

>>718704129
>cutesy doodle art
Describes Nine Sols to a tee.

>>718700437 (OP)
>What's so special about hollow knight?
Baby's first Metroid.

>>718704267
>>718704215
I rather turn off the game than suffer through that.

How did almost every modern ""metroidvania"" interpret Super Metroid as
>let's just make a giant labyrinthine maze forking and twisting in every direction, then throw up hundreds of gates at random all throughout the world, then put complete garbage behind most of them while a few have key progression upgrades

>>718704380
They’re both great games.

>>718704059
I merely said that HK doesnt even reach the fun of playing l4d offline

>>718704467
Why do you need a reward behind every corner

>>718704424
He’s so based

>>718700523
NO IT FUCKING ISN'T

>>718704380
By soul, do you just mean "it has worse controls and is less popular?"

>>718701848
Ori and the Will of the Wisps
GRIME
GRIME II (coming soon)

>>718700523
>all the seething replies that couldn't handle basic navigation skills

>>718704076
go back to kick, zoomer faggot
>>718704215
WHAT new abilities??? after the first like, 3 the drip feed stops indefinitely.

>>718700575
>b-b-but it gets good 27 hours in, I swear!
Fuck you faggots and your stockholm syndrome games.

>>718704535
Why wouldn't you want a reward cuck?

>>718704642
>GRIME
One of the most boring games I've ever played.

>>718703523
I mean, hollow knight did copy it, but the bias will never acknowledge it

>>718700575
I enjoyed it within the first hour, but it opens up a lot more once you get the dash ability

>>718704129
i dont even think hollow knight is a 10/10 but you're a fucking clown if you think nine sols is better

>>718703007
This desu. It came out when everyone was shitting on Ubisoft so it was ignored but holy fuck was that some GOTY material.

>>718704676
>WHAT new abilities???
Explore the map and find out

>>718704129
nine souls is fucking terrible

Redpill
"metroidvanias" would all be better as linear games, the locked walls are just to bloat the game length, but these fag devs love abusing the "metroidvania" tag on steam

>>718704125
I beat it in 14 hours my first run blind and still found it a completely tedious slog.

No one struggled here dumbass. I beat the game significantly faster than most people and without help of guides and walkthroughs like all zoomers use.

It's meant to be a big, stupid, long, meandering, time-wasting, tedious puece of shit game which is why it takes most players 40+ hours to beat despite only having a few hours of unique content.

>All the tools to navigate the map are available to you. What do you want, a fucking arrow pointing you where to go at all times? You have a map and pins for a reason, use them retard.
You get like 5 map markers and you have to pay money for each one of them, are you serious right now you fucking retard? How does that help the problem of 100+ gates being present at any given time? That's like putting a fucking band-aid on the titanic

Even having your goddamn location show on the map is gated by a fucking charm.

>>718704853
I DID!!!!!!!! I GOT EVERYTHING

>>718702238
>They aren't even old games.
It came out 10 years ago

>>718704902
I thought the same thing until I played super metroid.

modern metroidvania games just suck.

>>718704921
The charm system is genuinely indefensible in my eyes

>>718704921
>I beat it in 14 hours
screenshot your steam playtime.

>>718700437 (OP)
Atmosphere and sense of discovery, you have to be mostly white to get it though, just like Dark Souls, I don't blame those who don't because it's not a matter of perspective, their souls just aren't tuned to absorb their surroundings, they are more like robots.

>>718705059
HK fans are so delusional in thinking that praise for it is universal that they dont believe u have played it if u so much as look at it wrong.

>>718700437 (OP)
Best metroidvania is pic related but zoomies will never play it because cute girls scare them

>>718705050
Charms are one of the best things about it. It's a much better system than retarded RPG stats.

>>718705190
I accept your concession.

>>718700437 (OP)
It's a Baby's First game. A new generation's first good introduction to a genre that gets the privilege of leaving the first impression on them so it looms large in their mind.

Final Fantasy VI was my Baby's First JRPG. Looking back objectively it was too easy, buggy, far from perfect. But it will forever be perfect in my heart cause it got there first.

>>718705195
It's only good because of the bosses. Everything outside of that is mediocre.

Fact Nine Soils is a better game

>>718700437 (OP)
there are a lot of reasons of why this was overrated during its release:
>cheap
>released when indie metroidvanias were popular
>Souls-like aesthetic and storytelling, and it was released when Souls games were popular
>Easy-to-draw designs, so there are many more artists posting art online and piquing people's interest.

>>718705059
cry more you little faggot

left it idle for a couple hours

>>718705404
>65%
yikes

>>718705179
HK atmosphere is weak and one note. There is zero diversity in tone. Every new zone looks like a rejected set from a tim burton movie. Yawn. Igarashi knew how to break up monotony with a classy ballroom or a secret lab. Hollow knight is all boring cave variants.

>>718705314
it’s shittier and uglier

>>718705059
beating HK is not some insane challenge, man. it's pretty short and easy

>>718704909
Honestly... yes, the Castlevania games were fun because you got a new toy every 5 minutes. HK is way too stretched out for the amount of upgrades you get.

>>718705475
It's ok anon, you don't have to be angry because you were born without a soul. Just accept this game isn't for you and move on.

>>718705246
Except halo was a real and original videogame unlike the amateurish and generic piece of shit that is hollow knight

>>718705458
every time with you faggots, as if getting all the dogshit dream nail lore is somehow worth the time

>>718705404
>>718705592
>>718705513
you didn't beat the game.

>>718705559
tumblr ass reply, as if not liking the smol bean bug makes u a bad person in a disney film

>>718705458
Even that was a tedious slog and I didn't want to play one minute more. It's just so sad because the game actually would have been decent as a linear action game without all the bullshit, time-wasting padding.

>>718705674
no one called you that

>>718705681
>wants a linear experience
>plays a game in an explicitly non-linear genre
r u stoopid?

>>718705629
you're really gonna make me re-DL this shit on my switch 2 to screenshot my save file, huh

>>718705404
Can you even get the real ending at that percentage or did you just slap the Hollow Knight around and call it a day

>>718705559
Well I am an adult that has outgrown religion and accepted that there is no essence that preceeds existence. Sorry you cant develop a counter argument to my criticism of your stupid game.

>>718705798
You must have 100% completion or you didn't beat the game. Simple as.

>>718705801
I was given a chance to check out early and I took it. IDGAF about the big moth nor should you. All the fights are dogshit.

>>718705475
>coherent design is bad
Castlevania maps being a string of random areas thrown together is why they have no memorability.

Knighty is cute. Doing his best in a dismal world.

>>718705857
my argument is that you are a subhuman

>>718705774
no he wants a game to be FUN like castlevania

>>718705892
You can't name one good metroidvania boss.

>>718705774
Where did I say I only want a linear experiences? Hollow Knight's world design is fucking awful, which is why I want it to be linear.

But yes, vast majority of games are better as linear, as very few games can properly implement and benefit from an open world. Still, few games have open worlds as egregious as Hollow Knight where they ruin the entire experience.

>>718705801
I don't fucking care about some reddit secret ending where he says a few more lines of bullshit. What part of 'this game fucking sucks and I hate playing it' do you not understand?

>>718705771
>born without a soul
>no one called you that
??

>>718705872
>>718705798
>112%

>>718705872
retarded take and likely cope for the game being so boring.

>>718700670
The new Ninja Gaiden is trash. Is your goal to state that HK is a lower tier of trash or do you actually like that?

>>718700437 (OP)
I agree anon. I gave it a few hours and it just didn't click at all. Dead cells is way better and is good the first run.

>>718705898
People remember the chapel. People remember the grand library. People remember the coliseum. People remember the underground caverns with water. People remember the bottom of the castle with rivers of lava. People remember the clock tower.

What are you talking about?

>>718706093
Dead Cells is roguelite crap, not a metroidvania.

It's good, not exceptional and not bad by any means.
I think Silksong being the indie equivalent to Douk Noukem Forever or HL2:Ep 3 kind of inflated its reputation.

>>718705892
>I was given a chance to check out early
You only "beat" the games tutorial. And it took you 17 hours. No wonder you hate the game, holy shit lol

e33fags really aren’t taking this well

>>718706019
>a few more lines of bullshit
why do you keep commenting on the lore? you must be confusing HK with nine sols, the game that strangles you with a shit story constantly. theres barely any lines of dialogue in HK to begin with.

>>718706035
you don't qualify as a person to be a "bad person", you are just a bot that can be either good or bad

>>718706174
No anon he's SO right.
Don't you remember the grey-blue cave or the grey-blue cave or the grey-blue city or the grey tunnel?

>>718701848
Dead cells
Guacamele
Guacamele 2

>>718706019
>Where did I say I only want a linear experiences?
right here : >>718705681
>would have been decent as a linear action game
Also you went on to reaffirm that you prefer linearity in games anyway. Again: are you stupid?
>thinks that non-linear platformers = open-world games
Yeah, you are pretty stupid.

These posts aren't worth my time anymore, goodbye.

>>718704397
>>718705246
TRVKE
All of the games that get incredibly popular and overrated despite being nothing special are "baby's first [genre]" games. Even though they are completely fine as games, they only get rated so highly because they're the first one most people played in said genre. They're really digestible, inoffensive, and usually stray away from visual styles that turn off a large amount of people (like pixel art for some fucking reason).
It's also why people use them as points of comparison when any other game in said genre gets released.

>>718700437 (OP)
>What's so special about hollow knight?
it came out at the perfect time, it was a cute charming game while all big releases were zombie slop, the community that was built around it kept growing while the DLC that was coming out kept them fed

there was a direct line from all the mainstream dark souls youtube slop that permeated into hollow knight too, that was probably its biggest contributor of success, all that secret hunting and figuring out different ending and such, it was also cheap and accessible enough to the average casual so there was a sense that people were getting into a future "hidden gem"

when people start getting together and talking about a common thing, that common thing gets very big, despite of its actual qualities

it was a process very similar to undertale where, people heard about it being good from other people and there was a rush to play it and tell other people I suppose, that kind of stuff just snowballs

>>718706223
NTA im the one who has to redownload it to his switch and thats gonna take 20 mins for some reason so i gave up

>>718706305
Sorry about your colorblindness.

>>718705892
You realize all the crazy shit happens after the false ending right? Like there's 40% of the map you haven't even seen yet.

>>718706363
Good point, now go choke on a dick, faggot

Game is fine, not sure why it got such a big audience with all the autistic tumblrinas, but it's fine

>>718701343
Of course it's bait. If they believed it to be the first of its kind, they wouldn't be using the names of other games to describe it. See the facetious
>>718703695

>>718706174
Why would I care what other people think? I could not remember the layout of the map screen in that game if my life depended on it because of how because the connections are completely arbitrary. I can still do that for Hollow Knight.

>>718706353
You are illiterate. I wanted Hollow Knight to be a linear game AFTER experiencing Hollow Knight because all of the elements of its open world are terrible and detract from the game.

>>718706371
trvke

>>718706204
Well it's better than hollow knight

>>718706705
No.

>>718704314
>Ninesols
>stamina meter
?

>>718706559
all this tells me is you played HK at a developmental time in your life and hold nostalgic feelings for it.

>>718706204
Anything that is 2D and has a map can be a metroidvania. You just have to believe it.

bog

>>718706490
uh oh, zoomie melty

>>718705404
>64%
you missed tons of content, areas and bosses
in short: skill issue

>>718706705
I like them both.

I think I've tried to get into it like 3 separate times since 2018, does it really get better 5 hours in because I always drop it in the first hour.

>>718706987
That's best. Games are fun and cool anon.

>>718706968
if a game offers players an obvious bad ending route and people opt to take it and be done with that shit, its usually not a good sign

>>718707021
no, the first hour is unironically the best part before you realize the giant fucking tedious slog that it is

>>718707021
Anon you don't have to like it. Theres like a zillion games you could play instead. The sooner you realize this the better

>>718703591
>superficially catholic
You don't know spanish martyr catholic mythology like the devs do. The whole game is about hypocrisy of the clergy and its devotion for martyrs and suffering.

>find upgrade
>have to remember exactly which of the hundreds of active gates were locked by that specific upgrade (remember you can't make notes on the map, and there are only five map markers that you have to pay for each one)
>even if you know exactly which paths were opened by this upgrade, they are all spread to complete opposite corners of the map so you have to do a big giant fucking loop around the whole map hitting up each of the dozen different gates
>if you dare die even a single time while doing this big boring slog around the map, you will be lose a ton of progress and all your money
>going to retrieve this money wastes even more fucking time, and if you die again while on your way, then you permanently lose that money and wasted your time for nothing
>10/12 of these paths will be completely worthless garbage like a merchant that sells a couple items, a lore tidbit, a shortcut with no cutback, a rotten egg, a bit of geo, or a grubworm (read: a bit of geo)
>1/12 might be an actual somewhat useful merchant or upgrade
>1/12 is a critical upgrade that opens new paths
>repeat this tedious slog for every single new key upgrade you find.
I just fucking love modern metroidvania design!

Zoomers are so fucking retarded, man. I change my mind; the kids are not all right. When I was a teenager and became obsessed with a new piece of media that other people called derivative, I would fucking look back and see what they mean. I was not so jaded and arrogant to believe the best of any genre or medium happened to release during my formative years and was exposed to a lot exceptional media because of that. Honestly? I feel sorry for these young niggas

>>718704921
I like how you suggest he's the retard then go on to demonstrate that you lack basic pathfinding skills and potentially have short term memory issues.

>>718707119
the game rewards exploration by giving you more content, if you don't like exploring you miss on content
with a % so low and so little hours played it's clear you rushed to the end and barely saw what the game has to offer, especially considering the more you advance the better it gets

>>718707330
I understand you are retarded, but someone with either of those is not beating it over twice as fast as the average player (not talking about 100%, that's much longer)

The game is meant to be a big, stupid, long, meandering, time-wasting, tedious piece of shit game which is why it takes most players 40+ hours to beat (not 100%) despite only having a few hours of unique content.

this is basically just the metroidvania version of celeste

>>718707321
There's no more value, no more respect. Art and design has lost it's meaning. Anything that gets popular nowadays is because of forced memes

Hollow Knight is almost Undertale tier of reddit cocksucking

>>718707403
again, NTA im just someone who took the bad ending because i didnt care enough about the world characters or bosses to continue. if 3/4 of the game is mid and u SWEAR 1/4 is peak I simply do not care

People hate it because they are casuals raised on moviegames.

Super Metroid and SotN are so easy to the point where you can just bruteforce and facetank everything in the game and still never die. Both are by far the most easy, casualized, and accessible entry in their series.

Hollow Knight is brutally hard, particularly in its bosses, and demands you take note of your surroundings and tread cautiously because the tiniest mistakes can lead to death.

>>718700575
>It gets good 100 episodes in I swear.

>>718707665
its genuinely not that hard

>>718700437 (OP)
Played it for more than 40 hours and then quit. I felt like doing the same thing over and over.

>>718707576
You said it, brother. Charlatans, all of them.

>>718707665
>Hollow Knight is brutally hard, particularly in its bosses, and demands you take note of your surroundings and tread cautiously because the tiniest mistakes can lead to death.
A low standard retard like you will be impressed by this, but an actual person with standard would tell you that that's just bad videogame design

>>718707403
Before playing the game, I was really looking forward to all the pantheon bossrush shit. Then I actually played it, and it was such a fucking miserable slog that I couldn't even be bothered to go kill the last couple bosses to unlock the pantheons, I just wanted to beat it, uninstall, and never think about it again.

No, I don't care if 10% of the game is good if the other 90% is fucking awful.

>>718700437 (OP)
Many zoomers had their metroidvania virginity broken by it so they think it's the second coming of Christ, at the end of the day it's just a mediocre game that can run on toasters

>>718707021
If you don't like metroidvanias, don't play it.

>boomers seething over HK
>again

>>718707618
the game is 100% good, with a slow start is all
it's a solid game, but if you forego one of the basic premises which is exploration by rushing to the end then ofc it's gonna be mid

>>718707306
>(remember you can't make notes on the map, and there are only five map markers that you have to pay for each one)
This retard has never heard of a pen and paper.

>>718707970
I hate it because I DO like metroidvanias, is the problem

>>718707970
Hollow Knight is not a metroidvania, but the modern abomination and bastardization of the genre.

Someone who likes Super Metroid will not like Hollow Knight and vice versa.

>>718700523
>its all dark, every area is monochrome
Hmm.
Hollow Knight is a mediocre game, probably among the most overrated games of all time. Even in its own genre, I mean Dread just mogs the shit out of it.

>>718707321
Do you not think boomers that hype up garbage that blatantly aged like milk do not do the same?

>>718707951
>that can run on toasters
You say that as if it were a bad thing.

>>718708062
wasn't rushing, trust me I would have liked it a hell of a lot more if I was.

>>718708067
>no coordinates on the map
>no options to leave notes on the map
yeah that's basically out of the question, the whole game looks damn near identical, it's clearly not designed for it. The devs just want you to meander around like a jackass

>>718708162
>17h
>64%

>>718707917
>soulless subhuman likes the worst thing about the game that has nothing to do with the world and immersion, just braindead mechanical grinding with rehashed bosses out of context
Makes sense

>>718708152
its simply one of the reasons it sells, not a reason why its good

>>718708248
that's not me you mindbroken retard

>>718708086
I love both Super Metroid and Hollow Knight.

>>718708248
again, not that anon

>>718700437 (OP)
Sometimes games don't need to have a special gimmick to stand out. It's just a game with above average fundamentals in every category.

>>718704921
>Even having your goddamn location show on the map is gated
Good lord dude, how much handholding do you need?

>>718700437 (OP)
It's not the perfect game, but it's pretty close to a perfect blend I'd say. What it needs to do, it does well; no major flaws overall, and I fucking love the movement, that's huge for me.
The rest, while I don't care so much, is very cohesive and that I can always appreciate.

>>718701848
Super Metroid
Zero Mission
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Dread
Samus Returns
Symphony of the Night
Circle of the Moon
Harmony of Dissonance
Aria of Sorrow
Portrait of Ruin
Dawn of Sorrow
Order of Ecclesia
Bloodstained Ritual of the Night

>>718708331
Based fuck tribalism

>>718708102
Dread was just okay. Too linear.
I enjoyed HK a lot more.

>>718708248
that's not me idiot

>>718708301
>>718708367
>>718708454
well at least 1 of you is samefagging here.
Fess up.

>>718701767
Truth pill. Hollow Knights success comes down to timing. Zenith of Dark Souls hype, Switch hype.

>>718708271
The bossfights are the only unique, challenging, and compelling part of the game. The rest is just samey, generic areas that feel borderline randomly generated that you endlessly slog and backtrack through.

>>718700437 (OP)
>I played for about an hour
You havent really played it. Thats fine, if you dont get that into it the first 4 hours are paced way slower than everything else

>Whats so special about it
The combat is simple and elegant enough to get into it easily, but learning to maneuver around enemies well renders a high skill ceiling which makes it really fun to master
The movement is tactile and responsive, and not only does it work very wll with the combat, but can work well as a standalone, especially with the use of the pogo mechanic.
The world is amazing and vast. Every room oozes with little details telling a story about the world. This is the vehicle you will be mostly using to learn about the story of hallownest, as you will not find extensive cutscenes or endless dialogue explaining it to you.
The scale of the world, combined with its non linearity, means that the world will keep expanding and expanding around you, making it easy to get lost in every new area, and giving you a unique experience that depends on a way you want to progress.
The music is amazing aswell, and ties the world together nicely, as it tells its story. You can listen some of it if you like, but keep in mind that it enchances the game as you play aswell, with each area and character bearing its own notes
The character design, while simplistic, is fun and soulful.
I can say more but I have places to be, as a parting note it is my favourite game period

>>718700437 (OP)
>What's so special about hollow knight?
It's a good game. That's rare these days.

>>718708561
Because you are a cretin.

>>718708530
3rd guy is just trollingmhtdh

>>718708574
The first hour really isn't much different from what comes after. The only difference is in the first hour you assume the game will get better/more interesting. It never does.

>>718708248
Retard.

>>718708574
>The world is amazing and vast. Every room oozes with little details telling a story about the world. This is the vehicle you will be mostly using to learn about the story of hallownest, as you will not find extensive cutscenes or endless dialogue explaining it to you.
>The scale of the world, combined with its non linearity, means that the world will keep expanding and expanding around you, making it easy to get lost in every new area, and giving you a unique experience that depends on a way you want to progress.
>The music is amazing aswell, and ties the world together nicely, as it tells its story. You can listen some of it if you like, but keep in mind that it enchances the game as you play aswell, with each area and character bearing its own notes
>The character design, while simplistic, is fun and soulful.

>>718700437 (OP)
the rate at which you get your upgrades is awful
i've dropped and picked it back up three times over the years and finally finished it last week
getting all the movement tech should NOT take you 10 hours holy shit

>>718708714
the upgrades are so few and far between that by endgame u dont even feel that much more powerful than when you started

HK is about the process of exploring + combat
but I really cannot forgive how lame the upgrades are. you get a megaman X walljump, a downgraded shinespark, and a double jump

pretty fucking underwhelming. silk song needs to be better.

>>718708561
Hollowkniggers recoil at this truth. The music sucks and the game feels boring to explore.

>>718700437 (OP)
I played it all the way to the point where you get the crystal flight mode thing and I still never really liked it. I think I just dislike the dark vignette overlay and mostly monochrome environments to the point that I couldn't get into a groove.

>>718708743
play literally any castlevania post SOTN

>>718708143
No, I dont. The things they hyped up walked so that the really good shit that came after could run. "If I seem to see farther than others, it is only because I stand on the shoulders of giants"

>>718708424
Yes
>Super Metroid
>Symphony of the Night
>Samus Returns
>Rondo of Blood

Debatable
>Zero Mission
>Metroid Fusion
>Metroid Dread
>Aria of Sorrow
>Order of Ecclesia
>Super Castlevania

No
>Circle of the Moon
>Harmony of Dissonance
>Portrait of Ruin
>Dawn of Sorrow
>Bloodstained Ritual of the Night

>>718708714
The world opens up. Thats some of the most fun the game has to offer

>>718709103
samus returns sucks ass and doesnt hold a candle to AM2R

>>718703007
>>718704849
fuck off, ubifags

>>718708931
This was my experience to exactly. Dropped it around that point. There's just something missing. Exploring Dracula's castle feels great, there is a ton of great music and its always exciting to see what new areas await. Same with the Metroid games. But Hollow Knight just feels so hollow. I can't recall a single song, and the only area I remember is the city.

>>718704689
Notice how he said 5 and not 27, you can easily figure out retards by the way they exasperate claims to make their arguments seem more credible. Most Metroid games don't become fun till you unlock all the gar that allows to to traverse the levels.

>>718709110
the world is BORING

>>718709196
For some reason, I read it as Return of Samus.
Move it to "No" tier.

>>718708947
>the games are piles of shit that have been outdone but they were first so they're still the best
Ok. This is not an endorsement of HK either, that game is as mediocre as it gets.

>>718709369
i dont consider SOTN to be a pile of shit

World design, unique art style. Music is pretty good too

>>718701848
I liked both Ender Lilies and Magnolia more even though both are flawed, Lilies in terms of gameplay and some stupid design decisions like the map and Magnolias, while it fixes most gameplay flaws of Lilies, had a weird story with the areas becoming worse towards the end.

It's an overall good metroidvania, every aspect is good, it has a soul. But it's true that gameplay has nothing groundbreaking.

>>718706816
I played both at basically the same time 5 years ago when I got into the genre.

>>718709294
you are boring

Absolutely BRUTAL truth nuke that hollowcucks still haven't recovered from since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUrUceYSgmQ&t=94s

>>718700437 (OP)
There isn't really a special gimmick. It just does everything very well. Movement is very responsive, combat and bosses have a lot going on, the game has good spritework and lively, varied environments, the music is great, the dialogue is solid, plot is interesting, etc. Most metroidvanias (or most games in general) will have some areas that are strong and some weak spots which drag it down a bit. Hollow Knight doesn't really have weak spots that drag it down, aside from maybe a handful of enemies and bosses which are a bit lame to fight.

>>718700437 (OP)
It's literally babby's first metroidvania that appealed hard to the Dark Souls crowd. Came out when the genre was nowhere as saturated.
Being $15 and running on toasters definitely helped, too.

>>718700437 (OP)
Absolutely nothing.

>>718709754
I think Nerrel wasn't harsh ENOUGH to it, desu.

>>718701848
Rain World
Environmental Station Alpha
Super Metroid
La Mulana
Aria of Sorrow
Valdis Story
Rabi Ribi
Blasphemous 2
Nine Sols

>Arguably but worth checking
Kirby and the amazing mirror
Salt and Sanctuary
Most igavania post SotN
Aquaria
Metroid Dread
Megaman ZX
Knytt Underground

>>718709754
>>718709862
>anti-HK zoomers get their opinions from youtubers
Why am I not surprised?
Of course you need to be told what to think. No wonder you couldn't navigate the map!

>>718709369
An illiterate zoomer, how original. HK has not outdone anything and Aria of Sorrow has yet to be even contended with by any other entry in the genre.

>>718709869
>Rain World
Oh my god

>>718710030
Aria doesn’t have fun platforming

>>718700437 (OP)
It's a very accessible and easy metroidvania with this typical melancholic souls like environmental storytelling where half the lore is non existant and interpreted by the community.

I assume this mix of great art and soundtrack with that easily accessible gameplay allowed people to enjoy a metroidvania that usually never play them or can't get anything out of other games in the genre. Functionally HK is very sloppy. Bossfights are unmemorable and I found them quite frankly too easy but that's due to the combat system being clunky and not very complex. You barely unlock any new interesting moves, powerups are often simple progression checks and there's not a lot of cool charms.

The map design is pretty bad from a metroidvania perspective. Lots of places were designed to be scenic. Lots of useless backtracking. Lack of secrets.

The people who HK is aiming for won't notice that tho. It's all in all a good game carried by the athmosphere.

>>718709986
I just said that I think his opinion is too nice
>ERM, YOUTUBER OPINION? NICE TRY
no man I beat the game in 2018

>>718709869
>Valdis Story
I really tried to like this game but the art style is awful.

>>718700437 (OP)
The visuals are great, the characters are memorable and cool, the world is atmospheric, the map is very well-designed, the gameplay is both very fun to play and fair in its challenge (you don't feel cheated even in the most difficult parts). And it also feels almost effortless in its quality. The storytelling is also top notch, it doesn't drown you in dialogue and LORE, it simply presents you with a world and lets you put the pieces together if you want to as you explore, which is key to a good metroidvania.
It didn't do anything totally unique, it just did everything everyone else did better and more tasteful.

>>718700437 (OP)
It's the only metroidvania that's actually managed to feel like you're exploring a world and not just a random assortment of themed, disconnected areas.

>Play hollow knight for the first time
>Get immersed in world
>Beat the bad ending
>Enjoy it so much that I go for good ending
>Beat good ending
>Enjoy it so much I decide to do all the Pantheons and go for 112%
>Overall verdict is that its a pretty fun game and worth the price, despite it's flaws
>Biggest gripes are that it feels too obvious where to go on your first playthrough and that first half is a bit too easy
>Go on /v/
>See subhumans complaining about the map being too large
>See subhumans complaining about how there's no incentive to explore, even though that's how you get all your mask, nail and soul upgrades
>See subhumans who complain about the game being too punishing and difficult
>See subhumans who haven't gotten past the first boss complain that the combat is way too simple
>Most of these subhumans are tendietrannies
>Remember that I don't go to /v/ for video game opinions
>Be happy

>>718710230
>It's a very accessible and easy metroidvania
...what? It's one of the hardest metroidvanias, or just indie games in general, and significantly harder than Super Metroid and SotN (which are both extremely easy action games)

Try again.

>>718710257
You lost. HK fans won. I get to have my cake and eat it too with the sequel in 2 weeks while you continue to seethe.

I consider Jetforce Gemini to be a Metroidvania in the vein of Prime

>>718704909
Literally yes. Dogshit pacing for a Metroidvania.

>>718710290
It has a pretty solid combat gameplay and pretty good bosses going with it. Also 4 different characters and incentives to perfect bosses.

I didn’t do the pantheons because I didn’t like the boss fights. Path of Pain was awesome though.

I liked Salt and Sanctuary though I hear Sacrifice sucked sadly

>>718700437 (OP)
Nothing is especially special about it aside from the art style being subjectively appealing to some people. It's a pretty well-explored and formulaic genre. It's just solid in every aspect of a metroidvania. Some games do individual elements better, but none of them are as well rounded as HK is. The map system leading to organic moments of "where the fuck am I?" is unique though, as far as I can remember, and it's one of the best features any metroidvania has had.

>it was just the first one you played!
No.
>It can run a toaster!
Every 2d metroidvania can run on a toaster.
>>718709754
this guy also says The Last Jedi is a good movie btw

>>718710373
Okay buddy. Listen, the game is fine but it's everything but hard. This isn't a bad thing because it obviously works in the formula. You don't need to get defensive.

metroidvanias are "illusion of choice", the genre

>>718710601
If it's not hard, then what games are hard? I can't think of a single harder metroidvania except maybe Nine Sols.

It's just bizarre to say "it's good because it's easy" when it's orders of magnitude harder than Super Metroid and SotN

>>718709484
There were games that are hyped up for being pioneers, sure, that would be Metroid 1. By Aria of Sorrow, though, can you say things have improved? Has the gameplay even truly changed or elevated? I feel like that's the peak. The gameplay already sort of peaked. Is this HK better? at least comes close? I kinda lost interesting after people were hyping Limbo which is forgotten now (gpt-alt helped me remember the name cuz who remembers that lol).

>>718710490
The combat was the reason why I played it but this was one of the rare cases where I really hated to look at the art despite enjoying the gameplay. I probably should try it again at some point.

>>718709754
Nothing he said here is wrong. This is irrefutable.

>>718709869
I haven't played any of the others but Super Metroid definitely isn't better than Hollow Knight. You've just got nostalgia glasses on.

>>718710734
There are people who try to say Dark Souls 1 or Demon's Souls is harder than DS3 or BB or Elden Ring because on /v/ hard is intrinsically good so if you like the game better it *has* to be harder. It's a useless discussion to have here, and I say that as a DS1 fag.

>It's okay when Team Cherry does review embargos
https://www.pcgamesn.com/hollow-knight-silksong/launch-reviews?callback=in&code=YZVIYJMWNDCTYMRHOC0ZMDQ5LWIXNZETMMFIZMIYMTQWOGVI&state=abce4ab2cfc4452b98096ee0c6851d03

>>718710734
Rabi-Ribi (BEX/HELL mode), Enviro-Bearvania style mods of Castlevania (Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia on hard mode, Julius mode), Momodora (Insane mode), Touhou Luna Nights (true final boss, 100%), Salt and Sanctuary (NG+++)

>>718710150
If rain world is a metroidvania then also dead cell is a metroidvania

>>718710839
I like Hollow Knight, I like Super Metroid better. But I can concede the things I like most about Super Metroid besides the music and atmosphere are based on exploiting glitches the developers didn't intend to sequence break it, so I don't know if you can count that in an objective argument because you're not really supposed to be able to mockball

>>718710898
do NOT click that link

>>718703769
Tendie we've been over this they're basically IGAvania clones. Nobody gives a shit about Metroid, not even Nintendo lmao

>>718711007
I've played Order of Ecclesia on hard mode and the first levels make both Hollow Knight and Nine Sols look like child's play, that I couldn't beat the early levels. I don't know why hard mode has such a huge difficulty spike lol.

>>718711124
it's funny to post this when the two standard bearers of the genre's name are easy as fuck

>>718711007
>three tranny bullet hell games on their hardest meme modes
>one literal mod
>fucking new game PLUS PLUS PLUS
really... this is the best you could come up with for games harder than a game you claim is so easy?

And even then you could just say Hollow Knight Pantheon all bindings is harder

>>718701848
Halo CE: The Library mission

>>718710373
Hollow Knight is not hard you delusional retard.

>>718700437 (OP)
>yes i make threads in silksong steam forum to farm clown awards how could you tell

>>718711007
i believe rabi-ribi on bex is actually unbeatable by 99.99999% of humanity

>>718711306
>yeah dude i beat grimm on my first try, for real

>>718701848
Hollow Knight is the worst Metroidvania I've ever played, so fucking all of them.

>>718711306
Post how many bosses you have beaten on radiant and how many bindings you have on pantheon on hallownest

>>718710734
???
see >>718709869
Half of the list is considerably harder in term of navigation, puzzles and for some combat. Hollow Knight mostly nails its bosses and in my opinion should have been a boss rush from the start, but for the rest its mostly par for the course.

Stacking layers on layers of linear 2d scrolling levels doesn't automatically make your level design good metroidvania level design. On this point Super Metroid is a masterpiece, with alternative paths unlocked by the new abilities making backtracking fluid and not tedious. Super metroid has no fast travel and at it never is a problem.

>>718711295
Nice argument but I genuinely hope you enjoy your Hollow Knight, there's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying easier Metroidvanias and you seem to be a huge fan of one.

I enjoy the "trannie" games a lot because they're challenging even tho they have an objectively worse environmental design than HK for example.

Like I said, you don't have to be all defensive about your favourite.

>>718711438
He wasn't even in the game at release.

>>718711306
Name harder games you've cleared

>>718711513
None, because I dropped the game for being shit 10 hours in.

>>718711504
yeah this level of complete knee jerk contrarian hyperbole makes your taste look good

>>718711427
I spent probably thousands of hours getting gud enough to unlock this achievement lol. It's legit insane and for me it was mostly luck.

>>718711306
>didn't play the game

>>718711650
It's not kneejerk contrarianism.

>>718711584
Cope

>>718711520
Nine Sols is the only game harder than Hollow Knight on that list.

La Mulana is harder, but that's more from puzzles/obtuse progression rather than combat.

There's really not much...

>>718711523
I don't even like Hollow Knight... I am just saying it's baffling to call Hollow Knight (one of the harder indie games and hardest metroidvanias) easy when the pillars of the genre, games like Super Metroid and SotN, are *EXTREMELY* easy in comparison,

>>718711584
Order of Ecclesia Hard Mode level 1 cap.

>>718711810
Yep it's giga easy. Enjoy it tho.

>>718711596
Then how far did you even reach?
I dont think you can complain about dificulty desu

>>718711667
fucking christ
furthest i got was the boss rush in BEX, the fight with the slut who copies your items was already one of the hardest things i've done
pantheon compared to anything in rabi-ribi is a fucking toddler's playground

>>718710734
The OG, Cave Story
https://youtu.be/xoqtq4FcaC4

>>718711837
>difficulty qualifier
>artificially imposed handicap
why can no one give an actual answer?

>>718710394
I made it all the way to the end of the game to learn that you can only reach the final boss if you save all the teddy bear people across every area in the game... after I spent the whole game killing them because I thought it was funny.

getting 100% under 2 hours in Metroid Zero Mission was harder than pantheon 5.

>>718711810
That list also contained rain world, which is brutal

>>718703127
>bosses that make full use of said movement.
see, that's the problem, they don't
not the main ones at least
since the game is so open ended they had no idea which abilities you'd have for any given boss
so they obviously had to pull their punches while designing the fights, making them quite simple and monotonous

>>718704129
How can i find the bottom two videos?

>>718711980
Level 1 mode isn't artificial, it's a game mode you retard.

>>718711956
Cave Story is tough, but not nearly as hard as Hollow Knight.

Hard Mode was not even in the original version of the game, it's just a meme mode added in the shitty CS+ version that caps your HP (which is normally 50 by that point).

>>718712008
Never played it, but I highly doubt it it's that hard.

The devs are sucking kike Schreier cock and are in contact with Geoff so you see the game marketed and forced hype about Silksong everywhere. It's purely artificial.

>>718711095
>based on exploiting glitches the developers didn't intend to sequence break it
????
>They include an hidden in plain sight wall jump mechanics
>They include an intradiegetic tutorial for it and the shinespark, putting you in pits you can't exit without learning about it
>They just had to put space jump blocks or super bombs blocks to block sequence break and knowingly didn't.
Even the reverse boss order may have been thought of by the devs considering how lower Norfair is hard to reach but not impossible.
If there is no unbreakable obstacle, it was intended anon. If you don't need to use zip glitches to go somewhere, at some point they thought it would be funny to let the player do it

>>718712008
I've beaten every campaign and Rain world and 100%'d hollow knight and nothing in rain world comes close to pantheon 5. Beating rain world might be a bit harder than beating hk tho because of the karma system and soft locks.

>>718711667
>>718711946
nobody cares about your tranime dogshit. kys

>>718700437 (OP)
It represents some of the best the genre has to offer. Great art style, animation, good progression system, map design music, etc. I think Ori 1 & 2 are better overall, but Hollow Knight is something I wouldn't personally skip but I'm a SHMUP and Metroidvania autist. I would suggest giving it a bit more than an hour to decide if you like it or not but maybe you just don't like this genre of games. No big deal. Metroidvania fans are eating well enough without people who don't like them buying into the hype.

>>718700437 (OP)
Hollow Knight was to Metroidvanias was E33 was to JRPGs. It brought souls like mechanics to the genre, many other Metroidvanias have copied it since then just like many JRPGs are going to copy E33 going forward.

It's a game where you had to be there when it got big to truly understand what people like it so much, it changed how Metroidvanias are developed(they're 2d souls clones now).

>>718711837
Jesus christ I can't imagine beating the game on that difficulty when you die in like 4-5 hits with no reliable healing outside of grinding items and when it ups how much enemies you face in each screen by a lot it turns into like a bullet hell.

>>718712302
No, E33 was actually good. S&S is the actual Dark Souls clone and it's a much better game than HK.

>>718712329
because it's a shitty meme mode not intended to be played, and not actually a serious consideration for a hard game!

Come the fuck on people

>>718712171
Fair opinion, I found rain world hard enough to quit lol. Pantheon 5 at least I can say I beat, and I even managed two bindings.

>>718712427
I mean normal hard mode Order of Ecclesia is still harder than HK I'd argue.

>>718700627
Now you are just ragebaiting, couldn't even handle 1 minute before dropping the mask off

>>718712302
I despise Hollow Knight but I still welcome the changes it brought. Metroidvanias are in a very good spot right now thanks to it. Especially due to the financial success and new players that eventually bled into better games.

>>718712147
yeah fair enough, you can go far with those which obviously were intended. I forgot even infinite bomb jumping was intended since it's on the demo screen. Super metroid is so good.

Hollow Knight is one of the hardest games I've ever played and I've beat with no deaths: Sin & Punishment, all the Metal Slug games, multiple Contra games, multiple Castlevania games, both GnG games, Sunset Riders, both Shinobi games (RoS and 3), Gun.Smoke, Cadash, and Rastan

Hollow Knight is no joke.

>>718700437 (OP)
I really hated the hitstun

>>718712106
I'd say bloodstained sanctuary + Ballos fight is way harder than the boss rush + Absolute Radiance moreso if you aren't cheesing it with spur, try running that with subpar weapons like bubbline.

>>718712132
>it's purely artificial
Longest queues at Gamescon btw

>>718712635
lol

>>718712404
HK had the aesthetic going for it which made it mega popular. Sometimes style is all you need to get normalfags to flock to a game, look at Persona 5.

>>718712132
>still mindbroken by blue prince

>>718712329
The hardest parts of the game are the linear transition stages. You have to be really fucking patient to deal with the one with the floating gargoyle skeletons even on normal hard mode, let alone when they kill you instantly.

>>718712635
Most of the tards ITT will say it's way too easy and that they casually beat the hardest and most tryhard tohou games. They're posers.

>>718712515
its all grey blue caves and the zones that arent that are hardly any more inspired. oh cool, the rocks are pink now, thats about as different as it gets.

>>718700437 (OP)
At the time it had amazing graphics for a game so big.
Controlls were simple to grasp so it got everyone on board and kept the momentum going with free DLCs.
Lasting power comes from the uniqueness of the setting and environmental storytelling tying well into the lore making it feel authentic instead of just a vehicle for gameplay.

>>718700437 (OP)
You are not a contrarian. I tried to play this game multiple times. It is not for me. I tried Ori and the Will of the Wisps and liked it way more than this.

>>718712132
>sequel to a game that was huge and popularly received on its own when it came out
>hype for it is fake, actually

>>718712106
You can willfully avoid the HP ups and the missile upgrades, it's been a while since I last played CS but wasn't avoiding all of that a requirement to get the 100 missile upgrade?

>>718712132
>Steam has it as most wishlisted game ever
Your statement is wrong and you know it.

>>718710839
Super Metroid replay value is off the charts anon. It's a game that gets better and better as you replay it because of its level design and the built in speedrunning component. Sure it's easy to kick Ridley's scaly ass with 12 E-tanks but on a low% or actually speedrunning the thing and if you don't take what's not on the shortest path, it's a different tune.
A good metroidvania allows this kind of fun.

*** 4chan Statistics ***
In this thread:

Zoomer was stated 16 times, this means that there's a lot of millenials in this thread, millenials are more likely to self-project in online arguments and have retarded opinions.

Tranny was stated 3 times, this means that there are 3 or more transvestites in this thread, as they often self-project.

Faggot was stated 11 times, usually meaning lots of self projection.

Reddit was stated 4 times, suprisongly low this time, but there's at least 4 unironic redditors in this thread, not surprising since its a Hollow Knight thread.

>>718710839
It's not nostalgia goggles. Exploring the world in Super Metroid is still fun to this day. It's a rewarding, well-paced game. Exploring in Hollow Knight isn't fun or rewarding and it's paced like shit.

>>718712635
Didn't ask for a resume.

>>718713001
No, you just avoid grabbing the missile launcher and the one in hell will have 100 capacity

LOOOLL

>>718713068
>millenials are more likely to self-project in online arguments and have retarded opinions
Weak bait lmao

>>718713154
HK sucks but so does Maridia

>>718713225
cuckllenial mad at TRVKE

>>718713068
>Surprisingly low
A lot of people, especially on /v/, don't know reddit popularity has fallen way off the last 3 years because not even normies can stand how much of a gay circle jerk reddit is.

>>718713225
t. millenial

>>718713173
Imma do a bubbline + machine gun run, man cave story is pretty dope for a freeware title.

blasphemous is the only one of this shitty ass Indies worth a damn and that's on g frfr

>>718713301
>>718713307
So these are the zoomies mad at millenichads getting all the zoomette pussy. Stay mad lmao

>>718713392
>pixel vomit
in trash it go

>>718713428
You seething is funny

>>718700437 (OP)
Idk wasn't this their first game? I think for an indie dev it's pretty good, I think it just sucks for replays, when you notice that the best part is the bosses and the in-between is a bit boring.

Lot of bosses
Good music, nice atmosphere and combined it really sells the world
Simple but fun enough combat that its not overly annoying to be doing so much combat

>>718713392
some of the worst platforming ever put in a metroidvania

>>718713428
>zoomies mad at millenichads getting all the zoomette pussy
No one in those generations have sex, and if they do its a white woman getting BVLLED by an Aryan Indian (non-Dalit and Hindu)

>>718713246
Maridia only sucks if you don't have the gravity suit.

>>718713701
>I'm a shitter
good to know

>"i played it"
>screenshot of a google image
>400 replies

Consort Radahn > Hollow Knight

>>718713557
>>718713720
>zoomie jeets
Grim. I'd also be mad at life if I were you

>>718713154
I just hate supers map, which they fix in future games. Having to go across the entire map when you forget which pips on the minimal are items you actually picked up was a horrible decision.

>>718713701
Its platforming reminds me of the old school (2D) prince of persia games Idk why.

>>718713701
2 fixed the platforming though.
Also 1's platforming main problem is it's ledge detection mechanics. That and being unable to correct your movement if you got hit midair.
The game is fun and the art top notch though.

>>718713818
please let the /v/ermin pretend they are talking to a real person. they only come to feel SOMETHING not to think nor talk

>>718713902
>old school (2D) prince of persia games Idk why.
Hmmm both games feature wonky ledge grabs and fatal spike pits... we gotta get our best detectives on this case

Note to any indie devs itt: stop making bloated 20+ hour games. Give me a classicvania, linear action game. Enough of the bullshit

And the award for the most obnoxious fanbase goes tooooooo....

>>718713831
I dont even agree with the original post. You seething remains verry funny

>>718714147
soulsfags. HKfags are like the Alaska of soulsfaggotry

>>718714108
desu I thought I was just bad at both, nice to know others also consider PoP ledges to be wonky
>>718714141
The bloodstsined ritual of the night (NES like) games are pretty good if you're looking for a classicvania

>download Bloodstained
>try to like
>visuals are so ugly I cant continue
I cant be the only one.

>>718714313
>Y-you're seething
uhh sure buddy, here's your (You)

>>718714518
Yeah the 3D models are ugly as sin, I have no idea why IGA went with the ugly models instead of kino sprites.
The top notch spritework and art direction is what made SotN, the sorrow games and OoE so memorable.

>>718713831
Lmao Indian have the highest IQs of anyone and the highest income in almost every western country. I love it when white people seethe that we are colonizing they're country and fucking all there women. Look it up, Indians have the highest IQs on the planet. Youre little "jeet" word means nothing to us. 45 of the S&P 500 is Indian CEOs, we also have the the most billionaires in the West to. But sure go ahead and keep calling us "jeet" and if you didnt know "jeet" means victory in Hindi so were sinnig when you say that too us :)

>>718714523
I am literally telling you I am baiting you and have ben for 4-5 replies. You keep replying. Its funny dude Im sorry

>>718714686
Is this a new copypasta or something? It's pretty dope, gives me the vibes of the gorilla warfare one.

>>718714413
Yeah i liked Curse of the Moon a lot. More devs need to make games like that.

>look inside shill-slop threads
>free on gamepass

HEY WHAT A COINCIDENCE

>+400 replies
>not one screenshot or clip
Yup, its a marketing thread alright.

>>718714810
Man, it's no masterpiece but HK is pretty enjoyable, I wouldn't call it slop but to each their own I guess.
What games would you recommend?

>>718700437 (OP)
I see the hollow hater schizos are going into overtime with Silksong coming out

>>718714964
Nine Sols

>>718715065
>>718714810

>>718715023
it's gonna be fun two weeks

The combat is the perfect balance between simple and fluid, the world building is excellent, peak aesthetics and both the Knight and Hornet are sexy as fuck that I would love to rape until mindbreak if my penis wasn't half an inch long.

>>718711427
I don't think chapter ten is that bad
I can't do the extra boss rematches on BEX at all though

So it is clear to me there is a divide, anons who like metroid and castlevania don't like hk, and viceversa.
Now the question is why
If you like metroid/cvania, why did you not like hk?
If you like hk, why didn't you like metroid and cvanias?

>>718717121
I played some Metroid games many years before playing Hollow Knight and I like it just fine. I'm a zoomer though. I think Super Metroid was my first metroidvania.

>>718717121
I like both, what I don't like is the corpse running. It makes it more frustrating when you're lower skilled or new to the game, but feels pointless of a penalty if you're moderately competent or got good at the game.

>>718717121
>If you like metroid/cvania, why did you not like hk?
Samus and the Belmonts/Alucard actually get meaningful upgrades and you feel yourself becoming stronger and having more options as the game progresses, just having a sub weapon for Alucard is such a game changer
For Hollow Knight when I reached that fucking city of tears my character was the exact same as he was like 10 hours ago even though I explored every nook and cranny, just a fucking bug with a tiny ass sword (Now 1 pixel longer) a shitty useless beam that used heals I'd rather not waste, the fact that the story was just Dark Souls with bugs was the straw that broke the camel's back

>>718717248
>>718717630
so yo guys don't like darksouls then

>>718700437 (OP)
it was just the first game with the white head character against a black backdrop. thats it. everything about it is mid. that is only aura that it has

>>718717747
Nothing in my posts criticizes Dark Souls design, in fact it's an insult to call HK anything resembling Souls
>No co op
>No invasions
>No fun gimmick bosses (99% of the bosses is just dodge and wait for your turn to attack)
>No builds
>No multiple weapons
>No legacy dungeons
Every time I post my problems with this game I get the most unrelated and low IQ answers ever, it's so fucking annoying, why do I even bother

metroid series aside, metroidvania has to be the sloppiest fucking genre ever. im sick of it. nothing but a sea of mediocre 6/10-7/10 products (igavania shit included). you can count on one hand the number of genuinely great games in it, and that's exactly three. environmental station alpha, la-mulana, and hollow knight.

people are excited for a reason. HK rivals SM when it comes to world design and Silksong will most likely surpass them both.

>>718700437 (OP)
The art style looks good, the combat feels satisfying, the atmosphere and music are both top notch. Also as an Australian I'm obligated to like it on principle.

>>718717789
Ori and Rain World released before/around the same time. Also FEZ came years before it.

>it gets good 5 hours in
That's exactly why other Metroidvanias are better than HK. By the 5 hour mark in good Metroidvanias, you've already found a bunch of cool shit and feel your character progressing and getting stronger and more capable. 5 hours into HK and you're still wandering around as a weak little shit with no direction. The scale and timing of progression in HK is awful.

>>718717630
You get plenty of charm upgrades that can change how you play the game, all the people I've seen play the game have had a different combination that worked for them. That "shitty useless beam" is great for damage and worth the trade off of losing heals because you can counter that by just not getting hit.

>>718717121
I like both, and I'd wager most well adjusted people like both, /v/ is just filled with contrarians and people who like to argue over nothing

>>718718063
souls aside, the thing I don't get is that anons complain about things that are core aspects of metroidvanias. You mentioned the lack of upgrades, well, by the end of hk your character is a powerhouse, so you didn't really reach that point I suppose, but the way I see it, the core philosophy of metroidvanias is that they are games designed to be unforgiving the first time around and you map them out you "conquer" them. I argue that hk is the same in that regard.

>>718700437 (OP)
I have a really good sense of direction in games, hollow knight is one of the few times where ive actually gotten lost. I remembered a room with a path I hadn't taken but I could not for the life of me find my way back to that room.

>>718717121
I like metroid over the castlevanias where you have gear and weapons to worry about.

>>718712106
>Never played it, but I highly doubt it it's that hard.
rain world is probably harder than hollow knight

>>718703856
What did you expect from a board that is full of literal underaged retards? It being summer doesn't help

>>718700437 (OP)
Not trying to be funny, not trying to get a laugh, but do any of these fuckers ever bust out of the wall and have like a huge cumshot?

>>718700437 (OP)
I like Nine Sols but what's with its fanbase obsession toward HK, it's barely a metroidvania.

>>718717121
>Boomers: "The Metroidvanias I played when I was 12 are better."
>Zoomers: "The Metroidvanias I played when I was 12 are better."

>>718718846
is rw considered a metroidvania? im confused about why it's even included in this discussion lole
the only upgrade i recall is the mark five pebbles gives you and that's in the lategame

still no confirmed price or date on all major game distribution platforms btw

I know I'm late to the thread but what should I play: HK, Rain World or Ori?
I will only play one.

>>718717747
I like some of the Souls games, but I also don't like corpse running in those games either. At least Souls games give you those soul items to give you a bunch of a souls as a way to "bank" souls and how you can quickly spend your souls at any bonfire.

>>718719263
Nah its not, and it shouldn't be. It's way too unique to fall into any of these "Genres" I don't even think theres another game like it.

>>718719343
HK, Ori only gets good in the second game when it adds real combat.

>>718719653
Can I skip Ori's first game though?

>>718719343
Rain world has no upgrades and is purely a survival and exploration game, its not even a metroidvania. Ori 1 is pretty much just a platformer, Ori 2 is more similar to Hk because it has actual combat but it's still more platforming focused. Hk is a soulslike. Take that information and decide for yourself.

>>718719343
Rain World is VERY good and unique, but it has an extremely steep learning curve to the point where it might seem unfair. Depends on your patience I suppose. Ori is mid af aside from the art direction.
HK is one of the greatest games of all time, and playing it will prepare you for the sequel which is not only coming out in 2 weeks but it also looks like it will turn out to be another GOAT. Stop wasting time and go play that shit.

>>718719343
Do you like how Hollow Knight looks? If you do you will really enjoy it, if you don't there's no point in playing it because the main appeal is getting immersed in it's world.

>>718719202
yeah I think this is the root of the issue

>718718164
>tendie pedo pretending SM isn't the slopiest in the genre
kekerino you don't even deserve a (You)

>>718719701
Yeah, the story isn't that important. You'll be wondering who the fuck anyone is, but it's not critical to enjoying the gameplay.

>>718719883
>Depends on your patience I suppose
rain world is definitely a patience kinda game I would say

>>718719997
meant for >>718718164

>>718700437 (OP)
>thread became another typical echo chamber subr*ddit
Funny

>>718718671
Not that anon, but for me metroidvanias are about thinking exploration, space and how you open new ways with the abilities.
Most games have what HK has, double jumo, dash, wall jump. You can find all of this even in old megaman games. But most metroidvania go beyond that for their exploration.
>Metroid hqd the spider ball in metroid 2 and the space screw in super metroid 3 completely changing your perspective about its level design
>SotN has its different hidden moves and add transformations like bat and fog to open new path and make you reclnsider how you see the platforming
>La Mulana has actual indiana jones tier puzzles tying platforming, backgrounds and riddles.
>Environmental Station Alpha has its map which has several big secrets making yiu rethink the exploration
>Harmony of Dissonnance reveals halfway that you're not exploring one castle but two different onesat the same time
>Rain World has a fake 2D level design which is actually 2/3 D.

There are olenty more games with mechanics that make you completely rethink the map. Hollow knight remains very basic regarding exploration with just the usual very basic stuff + a simili shinespark

>718720154
>tendie pedo so tilted by being called out he gave himself a (You)

>>718700437 (OP)
nothing its just looks good and plays well

>>718720617
Hollow knights design is gay I do not want to play as a gay little lego bug I want to be a cool dude in power armor. Hornet's design is enough to make me want to play silksong

>>718719653
You retard, combat isn't the focus in Ori, also the ground slamming is fun
>>718719701
They're the same games but Ori has a sword in 2, play them both

Gameplay is alright, music is homogenous and unmemorable for the most part, the story is alright. I just really like the artstyle and vibe.

>>718721461
>the GAMEPLAY isn't the focus in this VIDEO GAME
Yeah yeah, the story is very sad, the poor little woobie got lost and has to find his friend, boo hoo.

Light spear air pause is kickass.

>>718719653
Being combat focused makes 2 worse

>>718721803
>combat is the only form of gameplay
Retard

>>718722174
Ori has exploration and dogshit combat
Ori 2 has exploration and good combat
The game to play first is pretty obvious.

>>718722301
Both games have shallow combat.

>>718722431
lol
lmao even
Anon is better served playing the second game first and you cannot even articulate why this is wrong.

>why the game taking so long, Silksong when, never ever
>"we were having too much fun making the game, didn't really care about anyone else yelling about it, finished when it's finished lol"
automatically makes me respect the devs regardless of my feelings about the games, people making their game for the love of it and not getting poisoned with modern fandom shit or caring about the /v/-tier whining every day is like seeing a unicorn

>>718722540
They're australians, making people mad is the national sport

>>718722509
I couldn't care less about that. I'm just calling the second game shit for adding more uninteresting combat when platforming is the main focus of the series.

>>718722647
>platforming
Jesus fucking christ, you could have lead with this so I could have dismissed you as a mouthbreathing neanderthal from the outset. Oh boy, the focus of Ori is... Jumping from surface to surface and timing it real good! Incredible, riveting, no, it's peak! Nintedies are such a fucking joke.

>>718722808
>the focus of Ori is... Jumping from surface to surface and timing it real good!
Not him but what is wrong with that?
If you don't like platforming you should fuck off back to Street fighter

>>718717121
Hollow Knight is harder than any PS1/GBA/DS Castlevania game. That's about it. Exploration is more cryptic, platforming is much harder, and the combat is way ore punishing.

>>718723045
There's nothing wrong with it, you're just retarded because you're implying that Ori 2 doesn't have platforming in it as well. It has everything the first game has as well as satisfying combat. There's literally no reason not to play the second game first for anything but the story, which is gay as fuck hurt porn anyway.

>>718723072
order of ecclesia at its hardest is far, far harder than HK, I'd argue circle of the moon is on par as well

>>718723216
>There's literally no reason not to play the second game first for anything but the story
What a retarded statement, have you never started on the first game in a series you want to try out?
Why would you only play the latest one instead of playing multiple great games?

>>718723347
Normally, yes, I would recommend Anon play in chronological order. However he's already stated he'll only play ONE (1) game, so I want him to have the best experience possible, which means playing 2.

>>718723437
Then that anon is a retard and you are retarded too for indulging him

>>718723523
You're pissing and screaming and kicking your feet because Blind Forest isn't as good as Will of the Wisps, when the second game is literally the culmination of everything they learned developing the first. It's tighter and plays better and if you had to pick one, you would pick the better one unless you're truly just that neurotic.

>>718723523
>>718723714
yeah it's like recommending megaman 2 over 1 for someone interested in trying the series, it's not a big deal

>>718700437 (OP)
>I played for an hour and
all of you tech-illiterate, games-illiterate, ADD-brain mouthbreathers who can't even stick with a game through 5% of its content and think that you've still got a good feel for what's going on are low-functioning humans.

>>718718407
It doesn't even get good 5 hours in. It's literally a bad game worse than the full length of other Metroidvanias. That's the fucking problem with it.

>>718724276
>Forgotten Crossroads and Greenpath took me 5 hours
holy fucking shitter

>>718717121
>why did you not like hk?
Its exploration was rancid shit, it's slow with the worst pacing of any game in the genre, and the boss fights were boring. It didn't understand the point of the genre.

>>718724476
what's the point of the genre, then, mr expert?

>>718703994
GODrio....

>>718724476
>worst pacing of any game in the genre
>Therefore it didn't understand the point of the genre
lah mao
lol

>>718724713
Regular variety and rewarding exploration. Hollow Knight fails at both. You do the same shit for too long and exploring rarely rewards you with something interesting.

It's designed like a Zelda game, not a metroidvania. That's a bad thing.

>>718717121
I like Metroid and HK
I'm so-so on Castlevania.