Thread 76586834

I just want to say to all the "FAT MAKES YOU FAT" fags that you were right all along. Many of you are insufferable in how you express your views without explaining anything, but ultimately you were right all along. I kneel.
>Enough protein for nitrogen balance
>Fat as low as possible (aim for 5-10% of calories max)
That's it. This is the holy grail of macro spreads.
>dirt cheap
>easy
>never hungry
>almost impossible to over eat
>forces you to get lean even if sedentary
>muscle sparing
>amazing pump from complete glycogen saturation
>amazing energy and endurance from carb intake
>incredible for insulin sensitivity (extremely low fat is critical for this point)
>works for cutting, recomp, and clean bulking
>easy to balance omega 3:6
>easy to balance sodium:potassium
>improves cholesterol profile
>lowers blood pressure
There are probably more pros I'm forgetting. Shit works. I've tried everything. Keto, carnivore, vegan even, moderate low carb, paleo, etc. All of them are better than a SAD and arguably they have have niche use cases, but overall this is the easiest and highest performing diet I have ever fucking tried and I'll probably stick to this until I die.

>FOR THOSE AFRAID OF CARBS/SUGAR
Thinking this will give you DIABETES? Thinking you have to stay low carb or keto because carbs make you tired? >LISTEN TO ME
Cutting carbs only masks the problem, it does not fix the problem. Maybe you think you reversed insulin resistance with keto or low carb + IF like many people are doing today because you tracked your A1C and it went way down. Yet, you still feel like dog shit when you eat a big meal with carbs, don't you? This was my experience too, and I've seen tons of other people mention this. You've probably also had a nagging question in the back of your mimd
>How the fuck other people seem to manage just fine staying lean and fit on high carb
>body builders since the 70s
>distance runners, cyclists, endurance athletes
>literally billions of asians
>If low carb got my A1C down, why do carbs still make me feel awful, while so mmag others do fine?
Want to fix it immediately, as in under a week? Just consume nothing but fruit, juice, and simple sugars for 3-5 days. ZERO FAT. ZERO PROTEIN. Just for 3-5 days. You'll likely loose nearly a lb a day doing this and you'll have insane energy, jittery even, you'll probably want to cut caffeine on these days. But you wont ever feel that carb coma in the total absense of both fat and protein. This is called sugar fasting, fruit cleanse or juice cleanse. It will kick start a proper insulin response to carbs by skyrocketing FHF-21 and letting insulin work unimpeded by fat or protein. After this, reintroduce starches and lean protein and get used to your new diet for life.

That's it. Your done. Your metabolism should be drastically improved. You can alternate a few days of sugar fasting here and there to accelerate weight loss and improve insulin sensitivity as whenever you want but shouldn't really need to and I doubt it's healthy long term

I CAN EAT MOUNTAINS OF RICE AND FEEL ENERGIZED NOW. JUICE IS MY RED BULL. FRUIT IS MANA FROM HEAVEN. FUCK LOW CARB, FUCK KETO. CARBS ARE KING.

Fat can make you fat. Carbs can make you fat. Protein cannot make you fat.

>>76586852
On paper, but realistically will never make you fat in the absense of fat because you'll be too full. You would never argue otherwise if you sat down and simply looked at just how much fucking food you have to eat to get your calories on 5% fat. I'm talking mountains of rice, legumes, oats, potatoes, fruits and vegetables. You barely need any meat to get your remaining protein. When you cut protein too, even pure sugar can't make you fat because your metabolism skyrockets on a sugar fast thanks to FHF-21. Still CICO if you want to be a stubborn autist, but FGF-21 cranks up the CO part of the equation, it's extremely themrogenic. You'll feel hot and jittery day burning thousands of calories of sugar while your insulin sensitivity approaches infinity.

>>76586852
Carbs don't get turned into fat though

>>76586873
Half true. Turning carbs to fat is very inefficient and in the absence of fat your body generally isn't going to store carbs as fat. The only reason people reject low fat diet and sugar fasting is they dont understand the metabolic relationships between fat, carbs, and protein.

In the complete absence of protein and fat your metabolism skyrockets like you wouldn't believe. It mainly seems due to FGF-21, possibly to encourage you to keep eating to get the bare minimum fat and protein needed for survival, but that's just speculation. Whatever the reason, it works, but it's really best used as a short term tool to reset your insulin sensitivity in my opinion.

Long term just keep protein high enough for nitrogen balance and keep fat low if you want to stay lean. Want single digit bodyfat? Aim for 5% calorie intake from fat until you reach your goal. Fine with 10-15% bodyfat? Aim for 10% until you get there, then you can probably loosen up to 10-15%.

I'm not saying this is the only way, but I'm saying it has more pros and less cons than any other macro spread for the majority of people. It's incredibly cheap, easy, healthy, no other macro spread makes it possible to maintain single digit bodyfat WITHOUT FEELING HUNGRY, and while still having tons of energy and full glycogen. If you are fine with the trade of maintaining 10-15% while feeling a bit hungry and having less energy so you can have steak, pizza and burgers more often, go for it. I did it for years. This feels way easier though because I eat as much as I want, never feel hungry, and I feel better than I've felt since my 20s. Just like a drug addict will do anything to feel good and it doesn't feel that hard, this diet is easy for me because it makes me feel good.

>>76586873
>Carbs don't get turned into fat though
Yes they do, especially fructose.

Anyway that's it for my ted talk. I just hope someone sees this, looks into it, gives it a genuine trial run, and it changes their life like it did for me. I'm fucking broke after buying a house, this cut my food costs down to fucking nothing. I've dropped about 23 lbs in three months without counting calories AT ALL. I eat until I'm full whenever I get hungry without thinking about it and I feel great, better than I've felt since my 20s.

>>76586964
Post body
Also how about hormones, 10% fat seems too low you are just depriving yourself of testosterone
Also if you overeat carbs you can still get fat, if you dont deplete glycogen storage then your body WILL turn carbs in to fat

>>76586959
Apparently not really if you cut fat low enough. I won't claim I fully understand how/why all of this works, it it works. I have never lost weight this fast and consistently with so little effort in my life, and guess what my diet includes virtually every day? Fruit, juice, table sugar, "maple syrup" (maple flavored HFCS), and honey. All high in fructose. Every single day I average about 2 bananas, 2 cups of fruit, 8 ounces of juice(all in a smoothie or mixed wit yogurt) and 4-6 tablespoons of simple sugars (3 tbsp in oats every morning, plus I use sugar in sauces a lot). Yet I'm loosing weight more easily and steadily than I ever have before in my life, all without even trying, without counting calories, without feeling hungry. It might go faster if I cut the sugars too, but I feel no need to right now. I'm not exactly fat either. 6'4", 222 lbs today. Should hit single digit body fat around 200lbs. I'm not exercising very seiously either. Sporadic walks, hikes, playing with the toddler, GTG calisthenics here and there, that's it. Shit works. Try it for a few weeks next time you need to cut if you want to try something different.

>>76586834 (OP)
Fat does not make you fat, your lifestyle does, you get fat because you're not burning enough calories
>b-but I swinged some 10lbs dumbbells today and then stuffed my face while lazying on the couch why am I getting fat!?!?!
Try walking 10+km 5 days of the week, you will literally never get fat

>>76586834 (OP)
I got fat by eating too much. Even when I started eating more, I only ate ~15g of fat. I increased carb and protein servings, and I gained weight. Explain that.

>>76586979
>Muh hormones

More fatty cope. I'm not OP but here's my body. I follow one rule with my diet. Is it high fat? Yes? Don't fuckin eat it.
Always the leanest cuts of meat, drain the additional fat
No butter oil sauces (besides mustard)
No fat milk
Fat free cheese
Egg whites without the yolk

I eat a ton of veggies lean meat and bread/rice
Don't count calories or anything if I want to gain weight (bulk) I just add olive oil to shit and there's your surplus.

>>76587033
plenty of people look like that who infact do eat fat

>>76587033
If you eat tons of meat you're not gonna have less than 10% calories from fat
Even chicken breast has as least 20% calories from fat
OP is advocating for 5-10%

>>76587053
Just not you though kek

>>76587055
I don't eat chicken breasts. I said LEAN meats.
Boneless skinless chicken tenderloins and tuna or mackerel are my go to. I don't eat red meat

>>76587061
I have never actually seen chicken tenderloin being sold around where I live, thought that chickenbreast is the leanest part of the chicken
Intredasting

>>76586979
Sure. Should have taken some before pictures, have some on my old phone I could use, but this is me now. 36, 6'4", 222lbs, down from 245lbs. Life circumstances kept me from lifting for about three years, then wife had a baby, gained some sympathy weight, gained more after with the sleep deprivation, etc etc.

As for hormones, you've got it backwards. The higher the fat, the lower the testosterone and higher the estrogen. This has been pretty firmly established for decades so I'm not interested in arguing or proving it. Ask chatgpt for sources if you don't believe me. I will admit that dietary cholesterol tends to increase testosterone though, so I'll likely try to squeeze in as much beef and eggs as I can get away with after I get lean again.

>>76587057
nah

>>76587075
>As for hormones, you've got it backwards. The higher the fat, the lower the testosterone and higher the estrogen. This has been pretty firmly established for decades so I'm not interested in arguing or proving it.
don't you think there's a sweet spot for bf% for hormone production

>>76587068
I eat the entire 1lb container and 2lbs of frozen veggies and a couple cups of white rice with no fat salad dressing for dinner every night. It's like 100 plus grams of protein for only 4-6gs of fat. Idk what the calories are because I could never get behind calorie counting. I just eat until I'm full and if I want to "bulk" aka gain weight then I just add fat to my diet and boom surplus achieved I'll start gaining weight

>>76587077
Thanks for admitting that mate

>>76587086
Well I stand corrected about the meat part, I dislike tuna but I'll have to go out on a quest to try to find a place that sells tenderloins cause I'm not gonna buy chickenbreast and cut out the tenderloins while throwing away the rest

>>76587061
Damn 1g/100 cals is perfect, didn't realize it was that much lower than chicken breast. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm new to eating like this and still figuring out new shit I can cook. Can't fucking weight to start lifting again very soon here once the toddler is sleeping better, in her own room, going to classes, and requiring less constant 24/7 attention in general.

>>76587091
no problem. getting rid of my skinnyfat i've built on my puter, deload week now though.
what are we talking about again

>>76586834 (OP)
>high insulin causes more fat/muscle gain

I just eat most of my fats in the morning and a little but throughout the day since theres probably some gay shit with low fat that eating like a queer causes.

>>76586834 (OP)
as other anons already somehow got to that point but without mentioning it by the name, search for:
>randle-cycle
>The Randle cycle is a biochemical mechanism involving the competition between glucose and fatty acids for their oxidation and uptake in muscle and adipose tissue.


combining massive amount of carbs and fat (something not really found in nature) will be an issue in the long run
have your carb, have your fat but best would be to have it hours apart
that's why high fat or carb, one without the other, works for people

>>76587101
>>76587102

Fat free cheese is even better, it's like straight protein. I make quesadillas in a waffle maker with this cheese, the lean asf chicken and some of every vegetable in my garden. Massive meal that's like 500 calories at the most and keeps me full for 6 plus hours. Not saying low fat diets are the only way, just my way because I don't have to track anything. Fat=bad in my diet and I'm ripped year round

this is just the reverse of keto
what about all the people that get lean and strong and fit on a balanced diet?
*crickets*
It's all about calories people

>>76587120
I cant imagine fat free cheese melting
How does that even work?

>>76587122
This is true in theory but not in practice. Avoid fat=less calories so easier to stick to a deficit.

Which sub do you think has more calories? Which sub do you think would fill you up more?

>>76587126
It melts just like normal cheese never noticed a difference. Fat free milk, yogurt, and cream cheese are fine too I notice no difference to be honest. Sherbet too, I don't eat ice cream but I house sherbet

>>76587085
Yeah it's generally around 8-12% IIRC. There are a lot of individual factors and trade offs though. Ultimately my main motivation right now is simply feeling good and still being able to do shit as I get older and getting lean is a very big part of that. Pus staying lean at 200lbs is very easy for me compared to staying lean at say 220-230 like I did at my peak.

>>76587120
Well fuck me I didn't know that even existed. Thanks again. Did you find some kind of low fat flour tortillas too or do you just use corn tortillas or make them yourself? I've been pretty content with mainly eating very simply meals with oats, rice, potatoes, fruits, vegetables, and just adding enough yogurt and chicken breast for protein so far, but variety is always nice. Only recently started figuring out some low fat sauces, like teriyaki variations, greek yogurt based ranch or "sour cream" and onion for potatoes, still perfecting a low fat red curry, I fucking love a good thai red curry.

>>76587122
The thing is this is easier. You never feel hungry, it's better for your metabolism, energy level, endurance, etc. Keto fucks your metabolism hard in the long run. Can be very beneficial for a few months, but eventually people end up feeling exhausted all the time because you can't run on stress hormones and ketones forever. The body prefers carbs
Also, have you ever noticed how people who never shut up about keto and low carb in general are literally always fucking fat?

>>76587115
This is exactly what I had suspected for years just never got around to testing it out, restricting fat is simply easier and makes more sense for me for now though. I miss my fatty fucking steaks though. I'll probably see if I can get away with a rib eye or at least a sirloin for dinner with no carbs every once in a while after I'm in the single digit range again.

>>76587201
what no, you cann still have your steak
fat is not the problem
big amount of both fat+carbs at the same time, all the time is the problem

have your steak, but without 200g of carbs as side dish

>>76587208
>fat is not the problem

>>76587208
Low fat is incredibly cheap and working extremely well for me so I'm going to stick with this for now until I'm lean since I'm broke. After I'm lean again I'll start experimenting with doing exactly that because I love my fatty meats.

>>76587115
I wonder how long the timing windows really are though. For instance if you eat high carb all the time you're going to have huge glycogen stores which take days to fully burn off, so is just splitting fat and carbs by a few hours enough to prevent the two from competing? I'd be curious if you know more but I'll look into it more either way.

>>76587276
you can just burn off your glucose storage with enough exercise and then you're basically primed for fat burning and you can have your steak

>>76587286
It usually takes around 3 days to fully burn off all your glycogen though. But that's assuming that is even necessary to prevent this whole fatty acid / glucose competition dynamic. Fuck if I know. I'll just have to experiment, something having one keto meal for just breakfast or just dinner for a week, see if I gain weight, feel better or worse, more or less hungry, etc. Not going to fuck around with something that works right now while it's working this well though, and I can barely even afford meat as it is on my current budget for about the next 8 months.

>>76587316
> takes around 3 days to fully burn off all your glycogen though. But that's assuming that is even necessary to prevent this whole fatty acid / glucose competition dynamic

Are you that retarded to believe you burn glucose by walking and standing? I mean honestly how fuckin retarded can you be.... You can have glycogen in your system while still burning bodyfat. Fuckin a, American education is such a joke

>>76587325
>>76587316
and while drinking alcohol
you will keep glucose, fat and store everyting else as bodyfat while only buring the alcohol as energy
no matter what state you are in, alcohol will always be the highest priority to use as fuel

and depending on your current body funktion/workout it will be a mix of stored glucose and body fat that is used as energ, the % just depends on the current body workload

>>76587325
What? Yes you can and do burn glucose at all times, that's what your BMR is. I never said you can't burn fat with glycogen in your system though. Work on your reading comprehension. You're imagining statements no one made and then getting angry at your own imagination.

>>76587325
>>76587345
English isn't your first language is it? You're misunderstanding what others are saying and you're not coming across as coherent.

I'm a boomer and am lean like a teenager thanks to high fat low carb diet. Fat doesn't make you fat. I'm glad you got your nutritional education from a mentally ill child

>>76587372
Every body builder for the last 50 years, every distance runner, cyclist and endurance athlete- they are wrong, and you are right. Thank you, boomers, for enriching the world with your timeless wisdom. The world is a better place with boomers in it.

>>76587372
>no body with timestamp was posted
sure you are

>>76587393
roiders and outliers? lul. there are tons of pro athletes who utilize high fat carb including the best in history of sport
>>76587400
Cropping a photo from your pc/gay porn viewer proves nothing. You can't handle facts

>>76587393
keto actually came from the best of the best in bodybuilding it was called “warrior diet" and vince gironda is a strong example to the fact you have autism and aids

>>76587033
>Egg whites without the yolk
That's gay, the yolk is the best and tastiest part

>>76586834 (OP)
I've seen some people do well with such a diet even in bodybuilding but it just seems weird to eat such little fat, is it actually a good idea long term for overall health like aging or skin/cartilage/tendon/bone health?

>>76586849
you got me to at least ask AI:
>Studies on short-term fasting or low-calorie liquid diets (not exactly juice cleanses) generally show a temporary improvement in insulin sensitivity, but the effect is from calorie restriction and reduced protein intake, not from the juice itself. Once normal eating resumes, the effect usually disappears quickly.
with the fruit and juice blends I have, I'd get something like 640 kcal, 4g fat, 163g carb, 15g protein. Doesn't sound like a fun diet but I can at least try it and bail with sardines.

>>76587475
>skin/cartilage/tendon
all protein bro

>>76587483
the heart's preferred energy source is lipids, though.

>>76587486
and the brains is glucose, your point?

>>76587494
The body makes every last drop of of glucose the brain needs on a zero carb diet

>>76587429
Wrong. These are exact quotes from Vince Gironda's book "Unleashing the Wild Physique" where he published his famous steak and eggs diet:
>You must, however, eat a high carbohydrarte meal every four or five days (ie, pasta, potato, grain, fruit); otherwise your muscles will smooth out and your strength will decrease)
And again:
>remember to have a high-carbohydrate meal with no protein every third or fourth day to replenish glycogen to your muscles
Notice it's 3-5 days, because that's how long it takes to burn off glycogen stores completely, exactly like I said previously. I know his steak and egg diet inside and out because I followed it for two years straight. It worked great for strength while staying lean but it's expensive as hell, I felt weaker each day after the car refeeds, and my cholesterol profile and blood pressure were fucking awful towards the end of it. Great for maybe 3-6 months at a time but not perfect and not
great long term if you care about your health.

>>76587483
but don't they suffer from very low fat diets?
what about the skin which has significant fat content? is there a point beyond which low enough fat in the diet somehow damages skin quality or dries it out somehow?

>>76587500
and the heart will run perfectly on glucose on a zero fat diet, your point?

>>76587500
It also causes testosterone to plummet and stress hormones to skyrocket while wrecking your metabolism. Again, useful short term tool, awful long term diet.

>>76587509
the skin has only significant fat content with fat people, the majority is protein
also you still get some amounts of fat, there is no such thing as zero fat diet unless you straight up eat table sugar/ gummy worms
even potatoes and rice has fat

>>76587510
the failing heart prioritizes ketones and survival rates increase in their presence.
>>76587521
wrong. fat makes cholesterol makes hormones. if your cortisol is high get some phosphatidylserine in your diet or drink some ashwagandha tea. becoming leaner from low carb increases testosterone. bodyfat lowers test. if you can somehow remain fat long term on low carb you're doing it wrong

>>76587532
>the failing heart prioritizes ketones and survival rates increase in their presence.
what failing heart? how is it relevant?

>>76587503
he carb cycled but also recommended a steak and eggs diet. he utilized low carb heavily in his training.

>>76587482
How the fuck are you getting 4g fat and 15g protein from fruit? The protein defeats the purpose entirely and the fat is also higher than it should be from just fruit. You need to look up "sugar fasting" and learn how protein affects FHF-21. Don't start changing things if you don't understand how it works, this is exactly how people always fuck up simple diets then go and claim the diets don't work. Just skip the sugar fast part if you're going to fuck with it, that's for people with insulin issues and if you add fat and protein it's not sugar fasting, it's just a high sugar diet.

>>76587537
the heart's best survival mechanism is ketones. how is that not relevant

>>76587538
oh man I wonder why he carb cycled
maybe because low carb sucks for performance

>>76587545
maybe because nutritional science has drastically advance since then. there are zero properly designed studies showing performance decline on keto. ZERO. none.

>>76587543
people live just fine on ultra-low fat diet so its not relevant for survival of the heart

>>76587549
and there's coutnless people dying of heart failure on food pyramid diet

>>76587475
You eat low fat to get as lean as you want, then adjust fat as needed. Too lean? Add fat. Not lean enough? Reduce fat. Want to maintain 10% bf? Start with 10% calories from fat and adjust from there. Trying to go down to 10%? Aim for lower than 10%. It's very, very simple and easy once you get it.

>>76587542
two kiwis is already 2g of fat and 4g of protein
I have frozen blends of mostly raw fruit that add up to the rest. 4g of protein from one shake with ingredients: apple juice, water, kale juice, spinach juice, collard juice, lemon juice. Even an apple has 1g of protein.

>>76587552
>zero properly designed studies
kek yeah I agree, probably because no one can adhere to the shit diet that is proper keto

>>76587564
I've been on it for 5 years and have never felt better in my entire life not even when I was a kid. Easiest most rewarding way of eating ever. Only difficulty is from fudding retards who copypaste incorrect info and dont have the slightest clue about it

>>76587568
5 years on proper keto?
post body with timestamp then, lets have a look

>>76587556
Those numbers don't add up, for instance one kiwi should have less than 1g protein and less than half a gram of fat, and I don't see how the rest adds up to 14g/4g either. In any case ,as long as it's all fruit and juice that should still work if you want to do a few days of sugar/fruit/juice fasting. I really doubt it's actually as high on fat and protein as that. You don't need to bother unless you have metabolic issues with carbs though, otherwise just go straight to low fat and don't worry about the details. If you're transitioning from a standard american diet you should startosing weight immediately, especially on sugar fasting days. If you were keto before though you will gain a lot of water weight initially as your muscles fill back up with glycogen first.

>>76587571
bud there's no proof provided by cropping a photo on your pc/gay porn viewer and editing a timestamp

>>76587585
carnivore isn't the same as keto

>>76587585
oh so you're lying
I accept your concession

either keto doesnt work for you (you're out of shape)
or you can't adhere to it (it sucks)

>>76587523
>>76587553
Alright, I might give it a try.

>>76587538
Yes. Again, not keto. Again, I ran his diet for years. I liked it a lot, but it has trade offs. Long term it was too expensive and fucked up my cholesterol and blood pressure. I might do it again in the future for a couple of months at a time because I fucking love steak and eggs, but I'll never try to do do it long term again.

>>76586834 (OP)
have fun having no energy

>>76587608
Literally the exact opposite. High carb = high energy.

>>76587594
>>76587599
the internet is filled with people who had great results on keto sorry for not wanting to be another peanut in the turd not sorry
>>76587607
keto cycling is keto and unless you're proposing eating vegetables to reduce body composition keto and carnivore are comparable

i been strict keto zero cheats 5 years never looked or felt better

>>76587659
No dipshit, neither of those are keto. Vince Gironda's diet added carbs specifically to stay out of ketosis because ketosis kills strength and endurance. Carnivore isn't keto either. When you consume protein in excess of what is required for positive nitrogen balance your body puts the test to use via gluconeognesis, converting the excess protein into glucose and glycogen, preventing ketosis. I know both of these diets inside and out, I've ran them both in the past. I liked them both a lot. But both of them are ridiculously expensive and wrecked my cholesterol and blood pressure. Between the two carnivore worked better, gluconeognesis is fantastic for stable energy. Gironda's diet had my energy high on carb days then dropping off until the next carb day. On keto all my lifts dropped. Everyone who actually lifts and has tried keto knows this, which is exactly why Gironda avoided ketosis with carb loading days.

>>76586834 (OP)
>extremely low fat is critical for this point
just hope you never get injured your body will have no cholesterol to repair itself and good luck absorbing fat soluble nutrients

>>76587701
eating no carbs then high carbs every 4-5 days is keto cycling and there's virtually zero proof doing so serves any performance benefit. it is quite clear he experienced the benefit of being fueled by fat not carbs

>>76587033
maybe your arms will grow when you eat some fats again lmao. proper twink build

Well the only guy who posted his body and looks good said low fat so I'm going to do that. Don't @ me

>>76587701
>When you consume protein in excess of what is required for positive nitrogen balance your body puts the test to use via gluconeognesis, converting the excess protein into glucose and glycogen, preventing ketosis
This is patently false and misinfo at best. Gluconeogenesis is DEMAMD DRIVEN that means if there's fat available the body will not create any extra glucose from protein no matter how much protein is consumed

>>76587724
>zero proof doing so serves any performance benefit

You are a retarded dyel faggot spewing bullshit with utter confidence. Read ultimate Diet 2.0 (who am I kidding you don't even lift let alone read about it) for how structured carbohydrate refeeds have a positive effect of hormone regulation like leptin. Dumb ass

>>76587548
Yeah if you type things in all caps it becomes true. Good luck with your retardation.

are you fat?
eat hella protein, drastically reduce calories, lift weights, do cardio
are you skinny?
eat less protein, drastically increase calories, lift weights, do cardio

processed sugar bad, fructose/glucose/sucrose p gud.

fats ok, lots of any fat probably not ok

there thread done fuck you.

>>76587724
Congratulations, you found other people who are also wrong and have wrong opinions. I already proved you wrong. Vince himself admitted strength decreases without carbs and carbs are needed for glycogen. I gave you the exact quote and source. You cannot have glycogen stores and be in ketosis simultaneously dipshit. If I'm being generous you might be slipping into ketosis right before the carb refeeds, that's it. All lifting is performed with glycogen on Vince's diet.
>>76587750
No it isn't dipshit. Go do carnivore while consuming 300+ grams of protein a day for several weeks then go test your piss, you will not be in ketosis. I know because I've done it, and it's common knowledge to anyone who's done carnivore. Carnivore is not keto, the protein is too high for keto.

>>76587815
How does high protons prevent ketosis?

>>76587818
See:
>>76587701
>Carnivore isn't keto either. When you consume protein in excess of what is required for positive nitrogen balance your body puts the test to use via gluconeognesis, converting the excess protein into glucose and glycogen, preventing ketosis.
Shawn Baker talks about this a lot, it's why carnivore is great for strength but strict keto not so much.

>>76587827
Shawn Baker is a fraud, lost his medical license, is on roids but claims otherwise, and has a (((record))) in some obscure "sport" that nobody does. He also doesn't follow his shilled meme grifter diet at all. He's a faggot. And so are you.

>>76587982
You're the faggot who can't read. I don't care whether you like or dislike carnivore, or Shawn Baker, or how much you love to tongue men's hairy assholes. I'm shilling for low fat here, not carnivore. Go be a retarded faggot who can't read somewhere else.

>>76587815
Why would you listen to an obvious grifter?

>>76586834 (OP)
Butter Bob disagrees https://youtu.be/h6aMN6NLOTQ?si=ZiEGKk0yFlTt5grl

>>76587811
>FHF-21
Thank you anon, this thread is now extremely valuable to me

>>76587982
>horrible obstruction from never eating fiber
if he was carnivore then what exactly did this obstruction consist of? Your body is very good at breaking down and dissolving fat and protein. I think carnivore is a retarded diet, but just going on the internet and lying about shit is also retarded.

>>76588501
>I never poop
All ketolards say this and it's a retarded statement

>>76586834 (OP)
Unironically close.
Saturated fat needs prio because of hormones.
Protein should be higher if you're training.
Otherwise great. Protip for those trying for a macro ratio close to this: 0% greek yogurt. I use it to make a dip for my starches (potatoes / carrots). Garlic powder, onion powder, whatever else, some kind of acid and you got a tasty treat.

Honestly, switching to only starches (no grains) and cutting fat is a cheat code for losing weight. I do eat fat but if I was losing weight I'd cook without oil and eat root vegetables a LOT.

>>76587827
holy shjt youre literally retarded. lookup rabbit starvation then hang yourself from a palm tree retarded faggot

>>76587818
nope not even in the slightest. it's literally impossible. gluconeogenesis is demand driven. this is a fact.

>>76586852
Yes it can, the body converts excess protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis which can then be turned into fat tissue via de novo lipogenesis.

>>76586873
Yes they can, you are fucking retarded, the process is called de novo lipogenesis and is one of the foundational jobs of the liver and pancreas.

The body converts excess glucose to triglycerides which are then turned into the fats in adipose tissue.

>>76587659
>the internet is filled with people who had great results on keto
Results in terms of fat loss, yes.

Many of these people aren't on ketogenic diets, but on "carnivore" diets which have enough protein to put people out of ketosis according to the blood work of some carnivore dieters like shawn baker.

Yes, if you eat a lot of protein you will get great results, but that's not really a ketogenic diet that's more like a zero carb very high protein diet, many of the people following such a diet are eating upwards of 300g of protein, if I remember correctly shawn baker was getting over 300g a day.

Shawn baker himself has stated in the past that going from keto to carnivore was a massive improvement for him in terms of performance, body composition and energy levels.

Keto must be an elaborate troll, these people can't keep saying the same things over and over without any results and keep going for years, there is something fishy behind it.
Or they are just stupid and they saw they lost weight quickly when they cut out carbs because of water retention and thought it was this amazing fairy tale thing that gave them weight loss for the first time in their lardass life, but because they can't stick to it they keep experiencing this.

>>76589401
> Yes it can, the body converts excess protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis which can then be turned into fat tissue via de novo lipogenesis.
lol in theory yes but you'd have to eat pounds and pounds of lean meat, and we are talking lean meat not fatty steaks

the conversion of protein into glucose into fat is so inefficient its neglible.

they have protein overfeeding studies where they have people eat in a calorie surplus but where they only get their excess calories from lean protein and they don't gain fat, in fact they lose fat and in all the studies gain lean muscle mass without having to work out.

>>76589461
go on reddit and look at people who've dropped 200 lbs ore more in a year or so, all on keto/low carb/carnivore (or carnivore before it was known as carnivore)

>>76586834 (OP)
I switched to eating mashed potatoes instead of rice for two weeks and started shredding down bf%. Didn’t realize potatoes had so little cals in comparison to a plate of rice

>>76589688
I don't think its the calories because you probably added milk and butter to your potatoes, but potatoes are way more nutritious than rice and some of those nutrients helped kick start your metabolism

but meat is tasty, and woulnd't I have to be eating 100 meals a day if it's only carbs?

>>76586834 (OP)

I get 50% of my calories from animal fat and have done for 15 or so years…

Something like 220g protein, 200g carbs, 200g fat. 3200 ish kcal total

I disregard your theory

>>76586834 (OP)
It was always this simple

Calories make you fat, not fat. Retard.

>>76590088
so eating exclusively lean meat can make you fat?

Fascinating how OP is not here to reply to posts in his own thread, instead leaving it to gather (You)s. Almost like it was... bait...

>>76590097
To many calories make you fat. You can eat. Nothing but chicken nuggets and Reese's and lose weight if you're calories are in deficit. Stop being a fucking retard

>>76590031
Oh boy he posted it again

>>76590103
why would someone farm yous?

This is a vegan thread, by the way.

>>76590088
The calorie measurement has nothing to do with obesity. For example a hypercaloric protein diet doesn't cause increased body fat.

It's all about what you eat.

>>76590103
OP is this poster here: >>76590045

A vegan.

eating only carbs make me sleepy

>>76590129
>All about what you eat
No.
>>76590121

>>76590151
I posted a study proving what I say is true.

You posted no proof. You just parroted calorietard lies.

>>76590171
>MUH STUDDDDDYYYYY MUH STUDDYINGGGGG
Cool! I guess we can completely ignore the consensus from the entire medical field concluding that calories are the main driver of weight loss kek. Enjoy your intuitive eating, and fat dyel body!

>>76590201
the jewed medical field?

>>76590201
How many covid vaccines are you on?

>>76590233
I get one every month. Post body.
>>76590224
Post body.

>>76590427
As expected. Thanks for conceding.

Pro-fat zealots are the such gullible retards. They're the easiest people to grift.

>>76590463
People love to hear good things about their bad habits
>eating baconwrapped sausages is actually healthy bro

>>76587701
None of the above anons.
I have used keto in the past to reset a few issues - water retention and weight gain, digestion problems (I now avoid gluten). Also worked with levelling my moods. Longest period was 18 months.
Keto sucks for athletic performance. I sprint (club level) and training and racing on keto is a waste of time. Last time I tried it I was getting left for dead after knackering myself just warming up. I imagine lifting is much the same

what foods are high in glucose and low in fructose that I can get easily while shopping?

>>76589668
I checked a sub ketoprogress or something that came up on google, they are all obese. From obese to less obese, literally landwhales all of them on the after pictures.

>>76590121
You will never, ever, get fat eating nothing but meat. I wish morons like you would actually stfu and do this and you would move on from the 2000s layne norton midwit talking points.

I tried carnivore several years ago, found I was eating 1000 cals more than before and I had gained muscle and lost fat. I tried eating even more and it had no effect on fat gain. This was raw meat and fish mostly.

I mean this is just common sense, do you think indigenous people had any concept of what a "calorie" is? A single dead animal can easily contain 100,000+ calories. One elk is like 200,000 calories. Why do you think humans were never fat when they hunted wild animals despite having so much access to fresh calorie-dense food? Use your brain. CICO is true to such a limited extent that it just isn't useful. If you eat naturally the body is perfectly capable of regulating its own weight no matter how much natural food you eat. Getting fat is a disease state resulting from metabolic dysfunction caused by modern foods.

>>76590600
Post body.

>>76590600
>You will never, ever, get fat eating nothing but meat.
This is a lie and I gained weight on a longterm carnivore/keto diet
I was even trying to increase the ratio of fat to protein because I was stumped by this and thought too much protein kicks me out of ketosis
The lesson I learned was that it was all a grift

>>76590626
The guy you're replying to is correct. You're lying.

This is a vegan shill thread.

>>76590653
I'm not a vegan, I think killing animals is great
Let me shake the hand of every dude who goes out hunting and killing animals for sport
Humans putting animals in their place and shitting up the world is peak human k1n0

only a vegan would mention killing animals

>>76590653
Reminder that these dyel fat bodies will never post body.

>>76586852
this guy gets it

>>76587075
you have the same body type as me and i lost 20kg on high protein. i am still at 20% bf though and paranoid about losing more muscle

>>76586834 (OP)
So mike mentzer was right all along. 60-30-10

>>76586849
>Want to fix it immediately, as in under a week? Just consume nothing but fruit, juice, and simple sugars for 3-5 days. ZERO FAT. ZERO PROTEIN. Just for 3-5 days. You'll likely loose nearly a lb a day doing this and you'll have insane energy, jittery even, you'll probably want to cut caffeine on these days. But you wont ever feel that carb coma in the total absense of both fat and protein. This is called sugar fasting, fruit cleanse or juice cleanse. It will kick start a proper insulin response to carbs by skyrocketing FHF-21 and letting insulin work unimpeded by fat or protein. After this, reintroduce starches and lean protein and get used to your new diet for life.
Wanna try. Should i still track calories or just eat til full?

>>76590127
>>76590129
>Almost like it was... bait...

>>76590912
Not him but I tried that
In my experience there is no need to track calories
Its insanely hard to overeat on fruits and sugar, I would eat to satisfaction without restraint and then I would count the calories later in the day and I only consumed like 1000-1200 calories

>>76590919
What were your results? Im relatively lean(visible shoulder striations, chest and arm veins) but i cant manage to get rid of my belly and thigh fat. Hoping this will fix it.

>>76590917
It's not bait. He genuinely thinks spamming pro-carb nonsense on 4chan saves animals. It's an agenda.

>>76590912
>sugar fasting
Eats all the sugar
>fruit cleansing
Eats only fruit
>juice cleaning
Drink only juice
How does any of this make sense?

>>76590954
I'm just a fatty who's still recovering currently 99kg from 140kg
However doing that initial sugar jumpstart he mentioned in the post you quoted, really worked well for me too
I suddenly felt like going outside, going for walks, just because the sugar in your body makes you motivated to move

I still get fat cravings some time though, its not like the perfect diet and you can overeat carbs even without fat

>>76586834 (OP)
Fat is the most calorie-dense macro. It's incredibly easy to overindulge in it. You can avoid that by tracking and limiting you fat consumption. I doubt there's any magic to it beyond that.

>>76590982
>muh calorie-density
Low-fat diets are the worst possible diets. Consistently outperformed by low-carb.

Pic related.

>>76589403
>but on "carnivore" diets which have enough protein to put people out of ketosis according to the blood work of some carnivore dieters like shawn baker
that's not how it works you cock sucking faggot. GLUCONEOGENESIS IS DEMAND DRIVEN PERIOD. that means your body has no mechanism whatsoever for converting protein to glucose sufficiently to fuel the body. read what rabbit starvation is. you will literally starve to death. the only way the human body can convert protein to extra glucose is in the absence of fat and or carbs. and again this process is inadequate for providing glucose. you will literally die. this is a fact. quit posting retarded bullshit nonsense you stupid faggot

You either have to be sub 90 IQ or a scared, neurotic weakling to get tricked into joining this guy's stupid cult.

>>76590998
this guy didn't say anything, fuck him

>>76586834 (OP)
Why did people move away from low fat in the 2000s? Why couldn't carbmaxxers explain this better? I'm following Cole Snake Diet and low fat is working great for getting lean and eating yummy food. If I eat goy slop it's now low fat subway. Potatoes are king. Flat iron steaks are king. Planning to buy my own bread maker and make home made subs, cannot wait. Why did I fall for the Keto meme for so long? I aimed keto in my diet for close to 10 years, now after a couple months losing ~7Kg aiming low fat. Even the sugar diet I did better than keto. My boomer parents were right again.

>>76591880
Because its hard to adhere to

>>76591880
Low-fat is the worst possible diet for weight loss. See: >>76590988

Low-fat diets are so abysmal that unlimited calorie low-carb beats restricted calorie low-fat. Pic related.

>>76591892
I'm not arguing Keto doesn't work for a few months or more. It's just inferior to low fat. Keto long term tanks thyroid, hormones, and metabolism. It happened to me. It is one of many reasons why keto works good short term, because metabolism was running hot before getting on keto. Then it is dog shit in time because metabolism running so slow. Keto doesn't work long term compared to low fat / high carb long term.

>>76591954
I think it's more likely that low carb diets are simply not for everyone. It would make sense that if keto failed you high carb would be better. The same is not true for all. Diet zealotry is retarded simple as.

>>76591954
Keto increases metabolism and works great long term. It is the best possible diet for maintaining leanness after weight loss.

>>76591969
Like OP mentioned, if high carb diet isn't working, likely not insulin sensitive enough. Sugar fast for 24 to 48 hours (short term only) which improves insulin sensitivity, then jump on high carb / low fat diet. I think this would work for >95% of the population. People in the 1990s were so skinny compared to now

>>76591969
Yeah I wish keto worked for me, I prefer to eat meat but I'm hungry, get fatter and feel like shit

>>76586852
Carbs and protein get consumed at a much higher rate by your metabolism than fat. If you eat the same amount of all three, your body will end up with more spare fat than the others, and it will go directly into storage.