Thread 82165809

>learning how to make video games is gatekept
>learning how to draw is gatekept
>learning how to make music is gatekept
if you were too broke for college, you're fucked. i'd rather be in debt for the rest of my life if it meant i had any skill in my interests whatsoever

>>82165809 (OP)
>learning how to make video games is gatekept
Tons of online tutorials and videos
>learning how to draw is gatekept
See above
>learning how to make music is gatekept
See above
None of those things are best taught in college

>>82165809 (OP)
No it's not? Are you too retarded to type "videogame dev tutorial" on google?

>>82165809 (OP)
>how to make video games is gatekept
at least the programming part isn't really gatekept

>>82165809 (OP)
What compelled you to make this post? None of this is true. The only thing stopping you is laziness. College is the worst place to learn about vidya btw and all "gaming" degrees are scams just warning you.

>>82165818
>>82165828
>>82165830
i've been stuck in tutorial hell in gamedev for over a year. i still can't write a single script from start to finish, all i can do is copy-paste scripts that other people made, even manually transcribing scripts on paper doesn't make me learn anything.
>>82165837
i went to trades school and was top of my class for the 2 years i went there. i know i can learn but the only proper way to learn is to have a teacher. if you don't have a teacher personally teaching you, you're screwed. there is no such thing as self-taught, even shits like da vinci were taught by others

>>82165809 (OP)
drawing must be the least gatekept skill to learn of all time, literally get some pieces of paper and a pen (some of the cheapest items in the market right now), look around you and draw

>>82165818
have you ever been to a college where the objective wasn't to scalp your enemies?

>>82165858
>i still can't write a single script from start to finish, all i can do is copy-paste scripts that other people made, even manually transcribing scripts on paper doesn't make me learn anything.
start with actual programming before even touching a game engine

>>82165858
Maybe learn programming before going into gamedev stuff? Why are you manually transcribing anything to paper? I'm very confused right now. Programs don't run on paper lol.

>>82165871
nta but doing CS in university not many of the classes taught me how to be a better programmer because they were about COMPUTER SCIENCE and not software engineering, the ones where i learned the most were courses that just consisted of projects you had to do yourself

>>82165874
> Programs don't run on paper lol.
Fuck you fouck you fuck you fuck you couvck you I want to go back

>>82165858
You're struggling because you wanna make a game right now and are trying to bite off way more than you can chew. You gotta learn how computers work and practice coding before you touch game dev. It took me a long time to self-learn prorgamming because I was in the same boat and went about it the wrong way for a long time. Go take some classes at a community college or free coding camps, etc. and you'll eventually get it and can move onto more complex stuff like game dev.

>>82165859
if you're not taught the techniques you'll always draw like shit, why do you think there are artists that don't improve after 10+ years
>>82165873
>>82165874
>just learn programming lol
you pieces of shit are so privileged it's insane. you were taught programming by a teacher or a friend, you went to college and then assume that there must be a way to be self-taught. i guess that's why i struck a nerve in you people by posting this thread, you're all regretting getting scammed by college and imagining that there must have been a better way, but there is no better way. you need to get scammed by college, or you're nothing. damned if you do, damned if you don't

>>82165809 (OP)
How is learning to draw gatekept?

You literally just need paper and a pen

>>82165908
I knew programming before I went to college and only went to college to get my meme degree that let me get jobs. You are very insecure and coping hard by blaming the world and everyone else. If you're gonna be like that fuck off nigger

>>82165899
>tfw will never use a punchcard computer
>>82165908
>you were taught programming by a teacher or a friend
Self taught btw
>you went to college
After being self taught, not to mention that CS programs don't really teach you to program. The only reason I got a degree is because employers like it.

>>82165887
computers are great because they tell you when you're wrong, and if you're wrong you're SOL

>>82165908
>you were taught programming by a teacher or a friend
i started to learn it on my own when i was 14/15
>you're all regretting getting scammed by college
i paid 1.5k for 5 years of university or so

we dont get many people like OP on this site, I wonder how he even found his way to r9k

>>82165938
true in most of the cases and you'll wanna cry in those cases where that doesn't work

statuscunts like you shouldn't be allowed to do anything interesting

>>82165917
Well they didn't let Hitler in

>>82165907
>Go take some classes at a community college
i'm broke, even with my job, and no i don't spend money stupidly, i barely spend money on anything
>free coding camps
no such thing in my city, do i have to fucking move cities when these things should be a thing on the internet of all places? wtf
>>82165917
drawing isn't gatekept, yes you can just draw on a piece of paper. but you won't learn to paint like van gogh if you aren't taught techniques
>just discover the techniques yourself lol
aren't you the same faggots that say "don't reinvent the wheel"?
>>82165925
>>82165934
being taught by someone else is not self-teaching retards. again, you were taught by friends, or you gained access to some private community to be spoonfed everything. you didn't start anything from the ground up, even terry a. davis that made temple os had to be taught to make his own shit from the ground up. y'all are projecting your insecurities and it's not as funny as you think it is
>>82165940
daddy giving you programming lessons and paying for your university is not self-teaching

>>82165975
He already knew how to draw though

howie vs schooler
you're a woman have have to servicer one of them

>>82165975
hitler was a good artist without attending art school retard

Computers are just a mix between the broom from The Sorcerer's Apprentice and a monkey's paw. Just be extremely exacting when you talk to an LLM, and it will write the code that you tell it. It helps if you tell it to write the program in pseudocode first, and then to implement it one section at a time in the programming language/framework that you want.

>>82165992
if your broke then just teach yourself using online resources. i was self taught and it was easy.

>>82165992
Damn dude you're just a fucking loser making excuses, nevermind.

>y'all are projecting your insecurities
Lmao you're such a narcissist

Jfc dude there is no hope for you.

>>82165908
I learned Autohotkey and Python on my own. I just used them for simple macros and scripts and I would just google how to do X and eventually through trying stuff I just figured it out.
I also went through Harvard's free CS50 Python course and I think that helped some too. (They have other free CS50 courses, one specific to 'games' but I haven't touched any of them except the Python one)
https://cs50.harvard.edu/sql/courses/

But I decided to go back to school last year and I took one intro programming class for an easy credit, because it was really just an intro Python course and it was easy because I already mostly knew how to use Python.

Having an instructor to learn stuff is helpful, but learning stuff on your own isn't impossible either... The hardest part is the self-discipline and accountability.

>>82165908
>if you're not taught the techniques you'll always draw like shit, why do you think there are artists that don't improve after 10+ years
because they don't draw from reference and only try to draw from imagination, if they spent even 1/3 of their time drawing just going to a cafe or a park or something and observing and trying to draw the people sitting there and the objects around their drawing ability would increase tenfold
if you never actually observe and try to draw the things you want to draw as they are your brain will always be lacking the information it needs to draw them but of course, the more you observe them and keep drawing them, the better you will become at them
sure, it's good to also draw from imagination in between, actually I would say it's necessary like solving a practice problem without looking at the answer, but you absolutely have to do both to get better at drawing

>>82166016
That's a drawing of a building. What is it supposed to make me feel?

>didn't go to college
>grew up extremely poor (probably the poorest family in my entire community)
>good at art
explain yourself, OP.

>>82165992
>daddy giving you programming lessons
the one thing i'll admit is that my parents did a good job at making sure at giving me the curiosity to learn things on my own and the will to stick to it actually

>>82165992
Oh yeah, you can't do it so it must be that everyone else who was capable of doing it must have been show how to by other people or been immensely privileged huh? Couldn't possibly be that you're just failing and are a retard, naaaaah! Just keep doing what you're good at and stop being such a narcissist who can't admit that anyone else is ever better at anything than you are. You are insufferable I've met people like you IRL you are horrible to be around I hope you continue to get "gatekept" out of these industries.

>>82165992
>van gogh if you aren't taught techniques
1. Van gogh sucked dick at painting
2. You clearly have access to internet which gives you access to all of human knowledge.
3. All the things you listed are creative hobbies. You have to just do them. Learning theory behind being creative is useless if you never apply it.
4. You have tried all these for 2 weeks and gave up because you have no discipline.

>>82166024
>just use the online resources bro it's easy, here: [REDACTED]
>>82166036
>>82166095
i'll entertain your premise, if i'm narcissistic then how tf do i get out of there? how come everyone else can learn anything off of the internet but i somehow keep self-sabotaging myself into not even seeing the resources that are so out in the open? i keep following tutorials, trying to learn, but nothing ever comes through. so am i doomed because i'm two digit iq retard, or am i doomed because i'm a narcissist self-sabotaging retard? making the excuses is only a symptom of the disease, but how do you cure it?
>>82166045
i tried to follow this course:
>https://github.com/ossu/computer-science
did the intro and half of the core lessons. still can't do the first thing when it comes to gamedev or programming simple shit. if self-discipline and accountability is the problem, how come that's not an issue at all when i was being taught by a teacher? am i incapable of self-drive? do i require to be spoonfed because i'm incapable of acting of my own volition? because the moment i'm being taught, i'm the most disciplined student in the room and i respect accountability harder than anyone. but the moment i'm trying to learn alone it's as if these things don't exist at all and i have to force these things upon myself. wtf is wrong with me?
>>82166049
i'll keep that in mind but i can't help but feel like someone guiding you through the drawing from reference thing would speed up your learning tenfold, but thx

>>82166056
It sounds like your coping that you refuse to take the time to draw and are attempting to put other down. I don't draw for the final creation. I draw because I enjoy the process of creating something from a blank canvas.

>>82165908
>pretend to be retarded
I literally can't not reply.

>>82166130
when you learn something, practice the thing you learned

>>82166145
It's a massive shame this even needs to be clarified. The proposal that there are people out there (including myself) who draw for themselves is a strange one to a surprising bunch.

>>82166130
I don't like you and I'm not going to help you. You've already insulted me for giving you basic advice. I know you will fail and that makes me happy. You should kill yourself.

>>82166130
>but the moment i'm trying to learn alone it's as if these things don't exist at all and i have to force these things upon myself. wtf is wrong with me?
nothing, that's normal
whether you're trying to learn something out of a book, a skill, diet, exercise, whatever, people's brains are lazy and they want to do the easy thing, that's all there is to it, it's simply not that complicated
Once you have someone or something to hold you accountable then your brains turns to "Learning this thing will be easier than being yelled at" so then you suddenly have the motivation and drive to learn the thing.

And everyone's brains are wired differently. So some people can have an easier time when they have the motivation and drive to learn a specific subject.

>>82165809 (OP)
Define "knowing how to". You sound like you just suffer from an idealized and naive notion of what it means to "know how to do" something. Programmers notoriously rely heavily on searching stackoverflow for finding out how to do something and nowadays they're probably relying heavily on asking AI how to do things every day.

>>82165809 (OP)
holy cope!
I am a 29 y/0 virgin who works at mcdonalds making less than 30k and i taught myself to drfaw in less than a year, holy cope. Just pick up the ai you slow in the mind hick,

>>82166130
>i can't help but feel like someone guiding you through the drawing from reference thing would speed up your learning tenfold
all you need to keep in mind is to always try to break the things you want to draw into simpler shapes, like you see a cat, don't start trying to draw all the fur first or the eyes or whatever smaller details it has, draw a big circle for the body and a smaller for the head then keep going like that but even that is not really some amazing gatekept secret because pretty much any tutorial you find on youtube or any art book you read will start by teaching you that first
the rest is pretty much practicing on your own to hone that skill because it might sound simple in theory but you will need hundreds of hours of observation and hands-on practice to be able to place and transform those simpler objects on paper the way you want

>>82166183
you have to be black/retard/ragebaiting. I was try to be nice.
>I don't draw for the final creation. I draw because I enjoy the process of creating something from a blank canvas.

i only draw for myself. /hidden

>>82166247
same fagging here but i spent about 150 dollars for 1 and a half months for art classes. if op cannot manage that just erase yourself

>>82166191
waahh wahhh someone insulted me on an anonymous imageboard. pathetic sensitive snowflake, you posting on /r9k/ of all places already goes to show you are failing at life yourself, suicide is something you should be worrying about more than me
>>82166220
okay but that just goes to prove my point that you need to be taught or you're fucked. if it's all about the path of least resistance, then you either have to make the way to learning on your own easier, or you have to be honest with your limitations and depend on other people for teaching. which is it? cause i'm tired of trying to deceive myself into believing that there's a way to truly be self-taught if there truly is no way to do so easily. the sooner i'm honest with the fact that i need help the sooner i'll genuinely learn shit
>>82166236
well if that's not demoralizing idk what is. i don't want to make a game like you'd mod skyrim, that's a recipe for bland slop, made even worse using ai
>>82166271
on a side note, fags who publicly announce that they're blocking someone is and always will be the most pathetic shit lmao

>>82165809 (OP)
Schooling/money excuse is just a lazy cop out and you know it faggot. The truth is you don't really care about acquiring the skills and the long process of making video games, music, art you just want to be able to produce shit now and get gratification. You just want praise/validation/status and to make money off creativity and feel accomplished. If you really wanted to make art or music you'd just have started drawing on your own or playing with instruments/music apps figuring it out. That's real passion and actual ambition. Face it you're just a consumer, period, that likes this shit but doesn't actually care about putting in the work to make it. You think because you like video games, music and anime that naturally the next step is making such content yourself but very few people are actually motivated to create art you're just a consumer and you'll keep being lazy and blaming everything else. I've met a million faggots just like you usually they end up resorting to saying they want to be a "writer" someday because that's the laziest and most low talent point of entry and even then they never actually sit down and write shit. Just be honest with yourself and let it go already. And if you really think I'm wrong quit whining and go prove it to yourself and start practicing.

>>82166271
>you have to be black/retard/ragebaiting. I was try to be nice.
Meds. NOW. I was agreeing with you.

>>82166293
>well if that's not demoralizing idk what is.
I don't know why that would be demoralizing unless you are making a game so people can all marvel at what a genius you are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bWGZnfXHzk

>>82166306
i don't even consume entertainment though, not anymore at least. there are no video games that interest me. there are no movies that interest me. there is no music that interests me. most of my days coming back from work i just sit or pace in my appartment trying to figure out what to do with my life. i was able to force myself to try to learn stuff, but as you've said yourself it's forced. maybe i truly don't care about acquiring skills. so then i don't care about learning how to make games. i don't care about learning how to draw. i don't care about learning how to make music. do i not care about anything at all? am i truly bankrupt of passion that badly? what the fuck is the point of living if i can neither be a consumer nor a creator? i fucking hate the fact i have nothing inside of me to drive me to do shit, and the only fuel that i have to live is determined by other people. i feel like a slave to other people's desires. i hate living.

>>82166293
>okay but that just goes to prove my point that you need to be taught or you're fucked.
no, no, i don't think that was the point
you don't need an instructor to hold you accountable, you can use a friend or sibling or parent or yourself
it's like going to the gym, a lot of people go in january with their new years resolutions and then just quit
but then there is also a significant amount of people that go to the gym and stay consistent and never talk to a personal trainer, some people can do that by themselves, some have a friend or significant other that goes with them to hold each other accountable and keep up the motivation

>>82165809 (OP)
You picked three of the most accessible hobbies. If you said something like
>learning how to make electronic devices is gatekept
>learning how to do physics experiments is gatekept
>learning how to do historical/archeological research is gatekept
Then you would have a point since you would need to pay the barrier to entry of having access to materials, labs, or archives/primary sources or get it paid for by an institution.

Learning to draw is difficult and you would benefit from the structure of a school. That being said you do not seem the type of person that would be able to commit to the degree needed to make anything you would feel real pride in. People have this idea that because it looks easy and has low material cost that you can just learn to draw by wanting to have the skill. In reality the skill follows the obsession for many artists. I do not speak for everyone who has ever picked up a pen but for me at least getting good is more of a tool to feed myself because I really cannot do anything else but draw. I would never be able to be a doctor or an engineer or a lawyer, maybe your passions just lie elsewhere?

>>82166354
i told my siblings and parents that i was "finally going to make a game", and it didn't help at all, probably because they didn't actually give a shit. they'd just say "how's the game going?" then not ask again after i'd tell them that i made nearly zero progress. maybe i just need a single friend that actually gives a shit, but that's a luxury nowadays. you can't force relationships, and i can't force myself to do shit. if only death wasn't so useless i'd kms

>>82166344
All of human society is artificial. No it is not a natural inherent desire to code video games for anybody. Atleast you're finally realizing to admit it to yourself that you're getting no where because you're just forcing it because you think you "have to" do something other than survive. Sounds like you've been brainwashed by "Hustle Culture" and think you have to be some clout chasing try-hard yet your honest feelings is you don't actually want to do any of it. Most people just do what they can to survive and die that's life kid you're not special.

I learned gamedev from game maker tutorials & the gmc

oh and the builtin GML reference

>>82166411
i'm just bored out of my mind man. surviving is so easy it leaves so much empty time. should i go homeless to make surviving a little more of a thrill? or should i be a prepper and hoard resources to busy my empty time to guarantee survival in the long-term? or should i sit and meditate perpetually until my mind breaks and i can enjoy boredom? i don't care about hustling, i just want to have fun while being alive. being alive and witnessing time slow down to a crawl is not fun, and is not a pleasant experience of being alive. whatever the case may be, i guess i'm already living life genuinely. i don't want to consume, i don't want to create, i just want to be alive with nothing extra. i just wish being alive was a little more fun.

>>82166293
Hey buddy, in five years from now when you're still a loser, I want you to remember how I said you'd never make it.

>>82165809 (OP)
>op whinges and complains about inconsequential shit and how he cannot become3 an artist because picking up a pencil is le harder than playing video games for 23 hours a day
wow, holy first world problems.

>>82166487
i can't play a video game for longer than 15 minutes before my brain pouring out of my ears out of sheer boredom and disinterest

>>82166293
>has access to infinite amount of free education for 0$
>blames his inability to learn on others supposedly having mentors and help and privilege
>accuses other people of whining
I can't even hate you I respect your gall lmao, but you're a fucking retard

>>82166505
could it be that art is gate kept or you are mentally ill person with an undiagnosed illness you refuse to treat? surely art and game development must be gatekept, no problems with your mental faculties no siree. Just keep coping that not everybody is a retarded animal such as yourself.

Howiefag thread 100%
You won't trick me, fag.

>>82166561
who is howiefag?

>>82166464
And now we have gotten to the root and the real question you're trying to answer. Very common and relatable feeling. I could day I have same dilemma in my life every day as do most anons here. There's a reason so many people are addicted to television, social media, videos games, anime, drugs/alcohol, work/jobs, junk food etc to cope and pass the time. Life is boring humans created ALL of this vast amounts of entertainment and activities exactly because of that reason. We're bored. Why else do you think every craftsman toils away in his shop after work wood working or building cars or blacksmithing or whatever. Why people cook elaborate dishes and culinary craft. Why nerds spend enormous amounts of time figuring out complex math or building electronics. Thing is everybody's brain is different you have to find what holds your attention for yourself. I can't sit and obsess over math problems or sports teams so I have to look for other pass times. Same goes for you nobody can give you the answer because they don't know your exact brain and tendencies you have to find out what works for yourself. It's a luxury problem because modern civilization has made staying alive easy enough.

>>82166130
I've been "teaching myself" videogame development this year, and I can empathize wholeheartedly with your struggles.

My approach was to exactify terminology. Once you know the correct names to things, you can format a web of connections. I find your predicament interesting, because I was also teaching myself infrastructure and building maintenance at a point in time.

Big problem in technical fields is the lack of lexical accuracy or standardization. There are different names for different components, and for the same components, be it in the analog or digital domain. And since technology is permutational, you will find that these components have different iterations based off form factors or modules. There is no one "main" heat exchanger. There is no singular "main" game engine, or programming language, or even garbage collecting modality for said programming language. Nobody tells you that software is a bunch of programs recursively pointing to itself, built on several layers of other programs. A "toolchain", "compiler", "garbage collector". All just programs on programs, all code written in layers. I've been slacking on the study, though.

I can understand your position on needing a teacher. When I dive into a subject, I collect the terms, and define them one by one using the web. At some point, you realize how much people aren't explicitly telling you in a tutorial. Knowledge digested by a human, who can teach effectively, with precise words, goes a long way in helping beginners.

Really, before I started teaching myself anything, I was looking into mindmaps, word trees, and how to organize information for study. Personally, I found that autodidactism required a sense, or a practice, or a system for processing and organizing data.

>>82166615
He's not going to listen to you anon.

>>82166556
i was diagnosed with autism as a kid, but i was so high-functioning it had no repercussions over my life, until now maybe. there's obviously something wrong with me since i can no longer enjoy consuming or creating anything, or maybe there's nothing wrong and that's just how things are right now. i'm just bored, and this thread stemmed from boredom-induced frustration
>>82166589
guess i just have to keep looking for what pass time that i'd be willing and wanting to indulge in then. i just can't imagine one right now, even discussing nihilistic philosophy or whatever sounds boring as hell. if only there was a system to determine what any given individual truly wants to do the most, like that bit in the movie 'demolition man' where the hardened police guy discovers that his true passion is knitting thanks to a futuristic machine
>>82166615
>autodidactism required a sense, or a practice, or a system for processing and organizing data.
yeah i was starting to think the same thing. systemize what no one will systemize for you. when you ask a teacher for help they break down information for you, if you don't have a teacher to do that for you then you gotta do it yourself. since i know this but still can't or won't apply it, it's a me problem. did you experience any motivation issues? what drives you to teach yourself gamedev?

>>82166675
>did you experience any motivation issues?
I did at first, because it seemed out of reach. Maybe it still is. But it seems less so, after almost a year of becoming aware to what being an indie dev entails. These doubts will always be there until you make it.

>what drives you to teach yourself gamedev?
I've been thinking about making videogames since I was playing on the NES, have a design, and believe in its system to revitalize a new gaming scene. I also want to make money because I'm poor.

Jeff Vogel has a great and recent interview on YT about his career as an independent game developer.