>>3827923
Im a fan of it honestly. I still dont think ceroba should be the one to agree first, but they made the scene much more meaninful in how it plays out.

There are a few areas of how the pacifist writing is handled that I do think is shit. it depends on us taking the royal guard way more seriously than they should be taken, and ignoring the fact that there's really no rush for clover to sacrifice himself when they are still a soul away. we have to hand wave those things a little so that we can also forget that ceroba should be noticing the parallels between what clover is doing and what she let her own daughter do as a conclusion to her own story arc, and the others just giving in to how "determined clover looks" or however its worded is odd because I dont remember this being set up as an observation the characters had about clover unless I missed one of the room dialogues.

Personally I would want it to be where the true pacifist was an ambiguous "clover lives underground but for how long?" type of thing so that it could fit into canon or not. perhaps clover indeed eventually got got by the royal guard, or maybe when the 7th human fell he made good on his word and gave up his soul. it fits the "walk not the middle road" thing from that ruins puzzle, and you still have room for other endings like clover maybe giving up his soul after flawed pacifist feeling guilt over ceroba, sure it was justified but she was the first person he ever killed in that route so it could weigh heavily on him, and maybe having room for some of the neutral runs having a beatable asgore fight while others ending with flowey yoinking happiness away like he does, have it based on your lv with it being under so much then clover tries to go with martlet and over that amount then martlet isn't on the roof and flowey lets clover try to go to asgore, but make the fight harder than in undertale yet winnable.
at the end of everything though

>>3821874
>Basically, Clover saw the writing on the wall
and this is the part that kills me because clover being a child should have been stopped by the adults present from making a choice of that type for them.

>Ceroba let the important things in life escape her many times before as she either just assumed things would get better like with Chujin, or allowed her tunnel vision to convince her that she was doing the right thing losing both kanako and clover once before.
>now on the surface she receives a call from a drunk Toriel one day crying that she learned just how many times frisk had died before and how unfit she was to raise the kid.
>after getting off the call Ceroba wanted to dismiss everything she heard as drunken nonsense, but she couldn't help but remember the hollow look in clovers eyes when she first tried to take his soul. in the years since that day she had believed it was just a reaction to her betrayal, but what if the truth is staring her in the face and she just doesn't want to believe it?
I'm being a little a lot autistic here, but imagine a ceroba that learned to stop just getting stuck in her tunnel vision coming to terms with clover remembering dying multiple times while living with her on the surface.

before I gave Yellow a shot, I remember seeing people talk about the "undeserved" hopes and dreams in A mothers love. being spoiled on a lot of the story I thought I would feel the same, but honestly all the problems with ceroba being what happens after the fight, the song is really good. I don't know what else to say, I just have the game living rent free in my head and since i didn't play it on release I didn't get to engage in new game discussion threads.

>>716092786
I think conceptually, clover trying to be 'clearly' self sacrificial in the pure pacifist run itself isn't bad itself. for one of the pure route endings its not terrible for it to have a sense of finality, but I think it being against the wishes of the main cast is absolutely key. possibly he could sneak off to asgore like that after the cast turned his offer of their soul down. sneaking away in the night or something like that do to what he "knows must be done"

>>3808588
honestly yeah. from the outside looking in I was getting hung up on the parts that felt bad, and playing the game itself did introduce me to some moments that really grated me sure, the cactus saying "girlboss" made me want to scream and claw at god, but there were other moments where a character would do something and it hit me that it FELT like something that character would do and I realized that there was passion in the work and that was ok, good even. I've never been much for fanfictions but its nice seeing people enamored with the game enough to make their own twists on the ending but trying to hold something of the core experience.

I still think its pretty funny how everyone goes on about the royal guard in the game though when every member except undyne is about as competent as martlet. She's depicted as this total goof but really you say hello and pat the head of 90 percent of the guard and they'll fold. They probably wanted the stakes to urge on things like the pacifist ending so its ok in the end but it was funny.

>>715413850
I always thought that Ceroba should've stayed with Clover as he passed on comforting him in his final moments.
A sort of closure to her story and a sign she's willing to change and remember his sacrifice.