Thread 96301251

Say hello to my little (big) friend edition

Previous thread: >>96293265

Legacies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books Scanned:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition upon us to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
What is a truth /hhg/ is not willing to accept?

>>96301251 (OP)
>tq
Black library isn't canon

>>96301251 (OP)
> TQ
Black Library is absolutely canon

>>96301251 (OP)
>TQ
There is no world where "vehicles take a debuff whenever they're penetrated" and "vehicles are good" can coexist and the 3.0 solution where only glances can roll on VDT is the best it's been since 4th edition

>>96301251 (OP)
That terminators can fight other units that aren't terminators.

>>96301251 (OP)
TQ: Militia are the only chad choice. Standing up to demi and full blown gods of war with just your mortality and 90+ friends is the real MC faction.

>>96301291
GW intern take right here.

Quite literally they were fine in 2e rules, except for lascannons, and only lascannons.

Without lascannons having sunder, and being the optimal weapon for basically every target, vehicles were fine.
In my local meta it was basically the unofficial houserule to not spam lascannons, and vehicles worked great.

>>96301251 (OP)
>What is a truth /hhg/ is not willing to accept?
Because the US is off the gold and silver standard currency does not actually represent any concrete value and is it therefore open to manipulation by corporations to be worth less and less arbitrarily so as to ensure that the proletariat can never afford their future.

Is this our time to shine melee Breacher bros?

>>96301320
>just don't take the most common anti tank weapon in the entire game and vehicles are fine.

>>96301320
I see you haven't played against magna predators, laser destroyer rapiers and vindicators, gravis melta dreads, sicaran omega, dual graviton gun landspeeders or myrmidons, vanquisher battle cannons...

>>96301336
Nobody is going to make a breacher/power spear squad even though it's objectively the best and most aesthetic option for them.

>>96301353
Hoplitemaxxing would look kino, I seem to recall WE having such a unit in the Angron primarch book.

>>96301353
Is it just me or is the humble power lance/spear low key nice this edition? Their ability to pick out heavy weapon carriers and such.

>>96301342
>just don't spam 30 of a single item that is under costed and overpowered on every unit you can
Yes, this is in fact a thing, just like contemptors are OP in 2e, and anyone that spams shitloads of them is also a WAAC piece of shit, while having 2-3 is completely fine.

>>96301347
I have in fact, and they're all more reasonably balanced than cheap sunder lascannons are are easily spammable.

>>96301363
>>96301379
Now that artificer tanking is gone massed power spears can rip up a power armored squad before it can really fight back while also killing the sergeant and special weapons with precision.
Sure against terminators they're not great but nothing is now.

>>96301379
Can even snipe sergeants equipped for melee now that artificer armour sergeants are a thing of the past fucking finally

>>96301291
A thing that confuses me about the new vehicles rules is that a glancing hit debuffs a vehicle while a penetrating hit, which would be far more debilitating for the vehicle and the people crewing it, doesn't.
I think a glance should just take a hull point, and a penetrating hit should take a hull point AND make you roll on the chart.

>>96301379
>Their ability to pick out heavy weapon carriers and such
Bruh I didn't even realise they were given precision, thats hilarious.
But yes they're good, but they were good in 2e as well

Were Space Hulks much of a think in the Great Crusade? Considering the vagaries of warp travel and how long humanity has been going about they must have been around.

>>96301390
I'm starting to think you have never actually played 2.0 and are just full of shit.
Most of the units I listed are around the same point value per shot as a HSS, can often move and fire making them even harder to avoid, and quite a few have AP 1 or other ways that makes it even easier for them to explode a tank in one shot.

>>96301379
I miss counterattack. Would have been nice if power spears got buffs when the bearers are the target of a charge.

>>96301251 (OP)
>TQ

1/6 and 1/1000000 are different

>>96301415
The flat initiative buff is just that.

>>96301390
Bros never had his dick flattened by 3 outflanking Vanquisher russes it seems.

>>96301425
The flat initiative increase works regardless of who's charging.

>>96301438
Yes.

So what list are you making for 3.0? Normal list like 2.0 or full on wacko?

>>96301443
I wanted a conditional bonus related to the difficulty opponents generally face charging a line of spears.

>>96301452
Yes.

>>96301452
Why would I start being a WAACfag now, I'm still playing with the same group

>>96301251 (OP)
>>96301316
from 1.0, but still teh truth

>>96301454
Yes that conditional bonus is "getting to stab the guy first"

>>96301452
Trying to make my old lists into new ones with minimal purchases and prints needed. Shame New Recruit doesn't have legacies options yet. Wish I could like help them with it, as I am a no lifer.

>>96301315
Oh fuck thats a good idea, i just pointed it out, it would be 210 for 4 multi lasers on it, and a flare shield.

>>96301408
I never said anything about HSS squads anon, but yes they are obviously one big user.

Lascannons are absurdly cost effective/reliable due to sunder, and match or outrange 99% of the weapons in the game, which is important because of how fucking OP return fire is in 2e.

Shit like magna melta pred/las vindi/every other tank/graviton landspeeders/any melta users in general all either can't return fire at all (battle weapon restrictions which need an expensive per model upgrade to negate) or have inferior range which means often they simply won't be able to return fire to begin with.

Lascannons can return fire against basically everything except snipers (because a range of more than 48 is very rare, not to mention there's only so much board space) and hidden scorpii, and are available on units that can all readily return fire (HSS/dreads/speeders).

So yes, all of those options you listed, which besides the vanquisher (which I'll happily admit I haven't played in 2e much since none of the people in my city has more than 1) are closer range options, which means they are more COUNTERABLE. Not that they are weaker, or less cost effective, but its much easier to deal with.

Its why melta weapons are completely fine. Are they the most powerful AT in the game? Yes.
Do they also work well against termies and dreads? Yes.
But they require you to close the distance, which means positioning and speed matter, which means the other player can actually do things to mitigate it, where as lascannons are less easy to do so.

>>96301458
No you do not need to go waacfag, I was thinking making a fun themed list like an all destroyer army now

>36 posts
>7 images
Holy fuck you guys are so BORING

The Great Learning continued this week! I managed to rope a friend of mine who dropped out of 40k in 7e into the 3.0 game, we had a whacky time. Lots of take backs and rewinds were taken as we tried to separate out the 7e esoterica from the actual 3.0 rules.

>Army A (technically EC) 815
=Primary Detachment
Praetor with plasma pistol and charnabal sabre
P] Librarian with pyromancy and force staff (Combat Vets)
P] 10-man Tac squad, sgt with charnabal sabre (Logistical Benefit)
LB] 5-man Tartaros squad with power swords
Rhino
=Armored Fist Aux
Land Raider Carrier with hull-mounted lascannons

>Army B (technically WE)
=Primary Detachment
Praetor with plasma pistol and charnabal sabre
P] Librarian with pyromancy and force sword (Combat Vets)
Vigilator
P] 10-man Tac squad, sgt with power fist (Logistical Benefit)
LB] 5-man seeker squad
Rhino with combi-bolter, multi-melta, dozer blades
=Heavy Supportt Aux
Contemptor with havoc launcher, meltagun, gravis melta


>Mission
Take and Hold
>Deployment
Dawn of War

One objective was place in a big medium terrain area and another was in a big large terrain area.

cont.

>>96301452
I'm building an auxilia army now that the faction actually works, building my first Lasrifle section RN and I'm glad to see Hip rotation on a GW kit again.

>>96301483
>complains about lack of images while posting no image of his dudes

>>96301495
Yeah solar aux got so spoiled with the old split torso and leg unlike nu-marines.

>>96301462
Thats not conditional by definition, there are no conditions on the current power spears rules. You're always going to be hitting at I5.

>>96301431
I have not, anon. Not a lot of SA/militia players in my area, and not that many vanquishers.

Is outflanking almost 500pts of tonk for what is basically 9 lascannon shots really that OP, other than rear ending a superheavy/typhon etc?

>>96301495
>>96301503
Ironically I am seriously considering getting the FW models for SA since the new models seem to actually have TOO MANY parts for models which can be deployed by the hundred.

>>96301503
Only on the Lasrifles, Veletarii are static like Marines.

You might be able to legswap Veletarii but it would take some cutting and greenstuff.

>>96301478
Ahh, then for my word bearers I have a few funny ideas like the "all heavy assault list" with 2 squads of 6 saturnine for fure support, a 10 man cataphractii command squad and praetorian command squad for fighting and objective holding, a 5 man tartaros Siege squad for not being a fat shitter, and with 500 points free for a saturnine command squad

>>96301512
the resin ones are better imo, the details are more interesting and its less 40k, I also prefer working with resin over plastic. there are less parts. only problem are the rifles being brittle, you need to transport them in a magnetic case or give them plastic arms to avoid snapping

>>96301406
I'm assuming they must have been a thing, humanity and the other races had been space fairing long before the Crusade started so there'd have be millennia for them to form. Maybe they were treated as just another curio of the galaxy because the fleets were finding new crazy worlds and cultures all the time

>>96301526
Oh yeah, I should add that I would be getting them recast either way.
If I was getting genuine plastic ones, then maybe thats a different story... actually, thats a lotta mold lines, yeah fuck that, resin FW ones all the way.

>>96301509
Vanquishers are Heavy 2 S9 AP2 brutal 2 and Sunder and come with a coaxial autocannon so you can reroll all misses.

They're 155 points each, AV14 and have 4 HP, they're also not squadded up so you have to individually target them.

They eat Dreadnoughts and tanks
exceptionally efficiently and only take up a single HS slot.

>>96301526
Resin Veletarii are better but plastic Lasrifles are superior IMO simply because they're far easier to transport.

If you're only buying Recast then you may as well got old sculpt recast tho thats true.

>>96301484
>deployment
He sets up in the upper left near the objective he placed, putting all the PAs in the rhino and the termies in the LR.
I set up lower right near the objective I placed. The librarian accompanies the tac squad on foot, the praetor jumps in the rhino. The seekers + vigilator infiltrated way too close now that I think about it, but it leads to funny bits later.

>his turn 1
The land raider heads to the right while the rhino swings around a building to the left and disgorges the tacs+libby+praetor. I ask him if he's sure about this since the objectives matter. He says yes. Everyone shoots at the infiltrators, killing 1 seeker, while they reaction fire back, killing the praetor and a legionary. Alas!

>my turn 1
The tacs hustle to the objective, the contemptor moves toward the middle, and the praetor does a driving turn toward the left . . . Ultimately, I deployed too defensively. The Seekers and Vigilator fire, wounding the enemy librarian but get rocked by the return fire bolter + psychic blast, leaving only the vigiliator alive.

>his turn 2
His tacs and libby jump on the party bus and try to run the vigiliator over. DEATH OR GLORY! 3 point-blank nemesis bolter shots stop the rhino cold (pinned) for now. The land raider moves right toward an alley and disgorges the termies, who hop on the objective.

>my turn 2
The praetor continues moving slowly. Tacs stay huddled. The contemptor moves into LOS with the enemy LR. The vigilator moves, and takes aim at the side armor of the rhino, stunning it. The contemptor lets loose and accomplishes nothing but getting almost killed by return lascannon fire.

>>96301505
The condition is "I spent points on this piece of wargear and now I get to use it."

other than yt videos, is there a way for one to see what are the color schemes of the 18 legions to choose wich one to paint?

>>96301596
Open the books?

>>96301596
Lexicanum dot com has images of all the legions plus their entire history from founding to modern 40k

>>96301564
The alpha strike sounds great off them, but after that they're just tanks with upranged lascannons still. Either way, I don't see how vanquishers being good has a bearing on lascannons just generally being a plague on the edition.

>>96301589
>his turn 3
Auto-repair unpins the rhino, which backs the fuck up. Everyone jumps out, and the librarian gets kicked out as the tacs move into charge range. Grenades go flying as volley attacks are made, and the tacs charge into the vigilator. The vigilator punches a legionary through the faceplate, but the tacs still outnumber him, so combat ends in a tie. The LR meanwhile rapes the contemptor with lascannons. Educational moment: Explodes (X) doesn't say anything about LOS or terrain blocking. Following the RAW, 1 of my objective-squatting tacs dies from the blast.

>my turn 3
The praetor's rhino makes a squealing redneck turn and the praetor runs toward the enemy tartaros squad. The multimelta is actually in Melta rule range so the LR loses 6 HP to a connecting shot. The vigilator and tacs stay locked in an ineffective slapfight.

>his turn 4
He declares a counter-offensive (which was illegal now that I reflect but didn't explain it well). The libby and rhino move to target my praetor, as does the LR, which allows me to Reposition (if I had known the WE reaction was actually better I would have use it, oops). After tanking 20 combi-bolter shots, 4 bolter shots, and a pyromancy blast, the praetor died to the Land Raider's lascannons. Meanwhile, the tacs+vigilator moshpit continued.

>my turn 4
I declare a counter-offensive (also illegal, whoops). My only hope here is a Last Man Standing sneaky win. My librarian leaves the tac squad (this was a bad idea). The tac squad swings around the large wall to angle for a charge on the LR with a power fist. The rhino moves forward to target the enemy librarian (Explodes [4+]), who Repositions. My librarian drops a pie plate on the LR, which was retarded and did nothing. My rhino melts the enemy libby but he doesn't explode and glance the enemy rhino as I'd hoped. The tac squad Sets-Up, rolls an ABYSMAL charge result (1, 3), fails, and gets stunned. Not their finest hour.

>>96301135
You fewl. Cataphractii are the least appropriate to be heavy weapon terminators. Oh sure heavy armor+slow speed=heavy weapon guy is the obvious association, but it is also wrong. Tartaros gives you the same heavy weapon capability while also being faster and more mobile which means it can more easily engage targets at closer ranges more easily without sacrificing all its protection while also being more capable in melee thanks to that mobility. Cataphractii might be better at taking hits but that's it, and that's not even mentioning straining the armor's carrying capacity.
Indomitus is actually the best siege terminator unit but people aren't ready to understand that.

>>96301452
Sad lists, because I can't find rhinos for reasonable prices and the only transports I have are a drop pod and a spartan.

>>96301452
>500-point AL and Custodes for "slow grow league" that has not yet materialized. Reasonably "standard"
>probably a 500-pt TS force. Likely wacko with 20-man Interdiction Cadre Pyrae Despoiler blobs.
>some kind of "eternal" force of vanilla marine units that will survive the next edition churn whether that's 3 or 33 years from now.

Are Sabers worth anything in this edition? They used to be decent for sneaky breeki outflank action, but they no longer come in squadrons and their guns seem to have gotten worse across the board.

>>96301648
Because the only reason you don't see people spamming other anti tank is because lascannons do it better.

6th ed vehicle damage was fucking stupid.

>>96301931
They're still pretty decent. Cheap and fast firepower, can even take all kinds of pintle mounted weapons now to add even more firepower. Can put two multi-meltas on it for example, which is pretty funny. Sabre missiles are damage 2 so those are actually worth considering now. The weapons are still fine in the context of all ranged weapons having been toned down in 3.0

>>96301931
not really imo. 3.0 addressed the high scoring points system through extreme prejudice toward most fast or mobile units. cav, light vehicles, deepstrikers, outflankers, etc are generally paying a lot to be mobile with pretty mid shooting.

I don't think any warhammer game I've played had a vehicle damage system that seemed "good". The wierd thing about this one is that penetrating hits don't cause status.

>>96301794
Yeah but Tartaros doesn't have the tassels, where's your style and panache?

>>96301931
Their neutron thing is pretty okay but its only 1 shot.

>>96301968
THat was my original point though. Lascannons were extremely accessible (every model and its dog can take them), very good/reliable (reroll just becomes better the higher the AV you're hitting) and relatively cheap.

Stuff like outflanking vanquishers are uncommon and expensive, other good AT stuff has ranged/cost/accessibility limitations that make them balanced.

>>96302065
Comparing a neutron beam laser one to a multi melta rhino makes me a bit sad. Granted the sabre can take a lot of guns, but sinking points into that flimsy of a chassis seems real bad.

>>96302096
On the plus side hunter killer missiles are actually pretty effective against vehicles now

>>96301931
they are not cheap and fast firepower.
They're expensive, fragile, low firepower.
The S7 sabre missiles are one-use and nothing in the slightest to enemy vehicles. But it has the cost of a unit that gets to shoot more than once, so it's not worth anything at that role.
Anti-tank? Missiles irrelevant. Neutron + 2 MM build costs 140 points minimum. For weak 12/11/10 armor and only 4 HP.
It has Rapid which is weak shit, allows a vehicle to rush with only 1 gun shooting and only snap shots. This thing doesnt do a fucking thing with 1 gun and snapshots, so you can rule that right out. Stable (Kratos) is the actually good passive, driving around fast shooting every gun counting as stationary.

Gone are the days when 1 multimelta was a threat to anything. Now you're lucky to kill vehicles with 6-10 of the things and that's not snapshooting to hit on 5+. If it rushes it's not like it has Line to score objectives or actually do anything with extra speed at the cost of no firepower.

And it doesn't even ignore terrain like an anti-grav landspeeder, despite it having terrible armor and bad firepower for the cost. It's the same cost as 3x multimelta jetbikes, which at least hop over terrain though they also have nothing special firepower for 140 points because multimelta suck this edition.

Firepower and defense wise, loses hard to basic predator which has AV 13 instead of 12 (making it basically impervious to S7 autocannon types) and far worse firepower (magna cannon on pred is S9 doing 8 damage within 12" instead of neutron which is S9 doing 3 damage, both armourbane. Pred can pay same points for multimelta pintle and could buy 2 extra lascannons which are overall more useful than MM this edition) A single Saber by itself has zero oomph, it's running around quickly with tickler weapons, and if you try to bring 2-3 of the things you approach the cost of actual useful things, like a 14/14/14 Kratos which is 10x stronger than sabers

>>96302076
Balancing by rarity is always going to run into issues when people simply choose to bring the things with the good wargear, especially since GW and the playerbase both seem to want super flexible army building.

>>96302126
True, but thats the point of an actual force org chart, or simply limiting how many of a certain unit you can bring in one army, like they did way back in the day.

3e list building seems purpose designed to let players spam whatever fantasy WAAC idea they have, provided they pay enough centurion duelminigame tax.

Like people say '1e was shitty because pie plate spam' which was definitely true to a degree... but if they'd just said artillery was 0-1 per army etc, there's really not an issue. One of anything is a target, but when mr sweaty IW player brings 12 medusas or whatever, or course its gonna be fucking miserable.

You know I don't have a lot of hope for the ruinstorm or milita PDFs.

>>96302186
Limiting anti tank power by force org chart always ends up limiting vehicles more than non vehicles because there's always a way to get anti tank weapons in more than one slot, while tanks are almost always shoved in heavy support

God that was nightmarish to put together. Nothing to make you appreciate the upgrade kits then trying to kitbash weapons without them. Either way, first half of vet tactical squad done

>>96302239
To be fair, this edition you can bring however many tanks of whatever flavor you want with minimal hoops. Last edition you still could bring a ton of tanks but you had to jump through hoops.

>>96302239
Then just create new force org types? They basically did that in 3e, which I like. They just made it so there's effectively no slot cap, which is bad.

>>96301347
>>96301342
Do spam Lascannons, but remove their Sunder. I'm not sure if 15 lascannons are too much (it's 3 Land Raiders), but without Sunder, vehicles did fine.
In fact it was Multimelta Rhinos what punched above their weight. They were like chihuahuas, in your face and barking to things three times their size and points cost. Only they were armed with a fucking multi-melta lmao.
I hear multi-meltas now need a 6 to hurt AV14, where they needed a 7 on 2d6 before. So, went from damaging big stuff 58.34% of the time, to only 16.7%. Mega fucking RIP
I would rather ask if you yourself played with melta predators, melta dreads and all. If you did, you'd outright denounce the travesty being done to Multi-meltas

>>96301454
Back in 2.0 someone was always asking for spear buffs on the charge for cavalry, and I always countered that the buffs should be on the cavalry itself (Furious Charge), as cavalry used more than only lances.
But do cavalry get any charge bonus at all this time? Maybe their big ass Set Up is buff enough...

What do you guys use to make PDFs into searchable text? Nitro swaps some letters (c's to e's), which will hinder stuff. I don't trust it

Its been a couple of days, but the legion grows strong

>>96302427
>Marvel capeshit
>Pr*maris beer gut old man dreadnought
Yikes.

I’ve been thinking about starting a Heresy army for a while now, but I got a box of 40K Tactical Marines I gotta paint first. Have they been going through the Heresy in order when it comes to narratives and expansions? Would be neat to use them somewhere, though I know the Mk7 wasn’t until the end of the Heresy and not really adopted widely until after.

>>96302443
Don't be rude.

>>96302443
who the fuck cares

>>96302427
Looks good!

>>96302422
You can type at 150+ wpm right?

I call "group" a section of the army that is meant to work together. Like, a LR carrying termies, plus a Rhino w/Tacticals trailing behind it, and an Arquitor giving it fire support, that'd be a Group.
What do you call that? What are your groups made of?

I call "speahead" to the forward part of the group. It's the part that ideally makes contact first. In that example it is the Terminators punching a hole in the enemy's line that my own Line can exploit. What do you use as a Speartip?

>>96302443
>sperging out because someone has hobbies outside of 30k
Go touch grass anon

>>96301931
Could find space for them if a special detachment unlocks some recons on the side

>>96302427
They look great anon, keep up the good work and sooner or later it will be a real sized army.
Jokes aside, shit like that makes me want to play LI. Just like I know I can paint those tiny mech guys well enough and with the scale I could get it done, in less then an editions time.

>>96302516
yea this is just half my army so far, of what I have

It was so fast to paint this, love it. Never been able to focus on a single project so well, reeally satisfying

Remind me why anyone would bring an extra Praetor by using Special Assignment? They do not unlock extra Apex, and you still get a single +1 Reaction no matter how many Masters of the Legion you bring.
Brought a Praetor, a Special Praetor, Autilon Skorr and Alpharius? You still get only 3 reactions, hope you like them.

>>96302427
Hey, another milsbo owner.

>>96302525
Good combat character that can take options other than paragon blade. Though paragon of battle champion probably beats thunder hammer praetor.

>>96302525
Maybe just because you think having a second praetor in your list is cool. Not every player is a min/max optimising WAACfaggot your know, some people just want to be able to do things they think are cool.

>>96302533
A Paragon Champion could kill an artificer Praetor with a single Finisher indeed woah. Kinda makes that 2nd Praetor a bit more niche
>>96302539
An Alpha Legion force led by two Praetors would be comfy...but I wish it gave you something (+1 Reaction), as opposed to taking away something instead (uses up a Prime that could've been a Rewards)

>>96302571
It gives you a second strong melee character.

Shit like this is why I hate rules that give a bonus depending on army composition or unit choice, and faction rules like legion traits. For some reason it makes people completely disregard units which are excellent all by themselves already.

I saw this yesterday, would be really nice if someone could name the kits used to make something this cool

>>96301353

It's not a bad idea honestly. Although aren't power weapons 10pts each?

>>96301931

Well, they're in Recon now, which puts them in some odd places list buildingwise. Like, Alpha Legion can take two of them in a Headhunter Mournival.

>>96302617
I'm guessing an Armiger carapace, necron spyder for the head, a mechadendrite drill from a techmarine, could be wrong but I think the claw is from a mechanicum terrain piece and the guns are assault cannons of boxnaughts stuck into a gun mount from a knight? The treads I think are also from a mechanicum terrain crane vehicle thing.

>>96301353
>nobody

Why are rhinos now twice their points?

>>96301406
Pretty certain that the entire appeal of space hulks is that they might contain DaoT technology shit to be salvaged and that they have been around for a long time. These things would be constantly encountered during the great crusade, just less genestealers on board, more Orks, more Xenos that were destroyed by the time you hit 40k.

>>96302649
>AV 12 front
>5 hullpoints
>Units can disembark after it moved full speed rather than half distance
>Units can do a disordered charge in the same turn they disembark
>Anti tank weapons generally toned down
>Can self repair on a 4+
Having played a few games I'm surprised rhinos aren't even more points.

What's the point of land speeders? I understand they are fast but how does that speed translate in-game? What are they useful for?

>>96302617
Moirax top
Face plate from a canoptek wraith
Treads from kataphron
Front servo arm from onager dunecrawler
Mechadendrite could be from a million different things
Gun on the claw side from tech priest manipulus
Arm joints look to be from the moiraxes legs
I think the assault cannon battery is just cobbled from 4 normal assault cannons
No idea on claw

>A resurgence of the use of archaic heraldic devices, such as the winged reaper, took place across the 1ˢᵗ Legion in the wake of Horus’ betrayal.
Any idea what this is meant to imply? Calibanite separatists exerting influence? Coded instructions/mandates for the legion? Veterans invoking the memory of a time before there was a Warmaster, if not before the primarchs altogether, when all fealties were unquestionably to the Emperor above all?

>>96302660
The real question is would this shirt as a banner be canonically accurate to post-betrayal 1st legion aesthetics?

>>96302670
No, the skeleton would have to be dual-wielding volkite serpenta.

Do you have one of these for your army?

>>96302712
Not yet. Still has yet to get high enough on my priority list.

>10 sanctifiers all with dual volkite serpentas
>1 moritat mortalis with overcharged plasma pistols
>40 S5 volkite shots
>6 better plasma shots

they're gonna need a land raider arent they? or a storm eagle

>>96302617
Claw is some necromunda squat bit

>>96302769
>salamanders moritat

>>96302769
>Not committing to full volkite
Shame.

I wish castra ferrum dreads got a talon still at least. One 115 point dread per character is very retarded.

>>96302868
Contemptors have a detachment unlocked by one of the consuls that lets you take 3. Castraferrums should be included in that.

>>96302868
A centurion lets you take two. Add logistical benefit and that's already 3 dreadnoughts.

>>96302868
>>96302915
a Mortifactor lets you take 3

>>96302917
True, but only contemptors. Doesn't help if somebody wants to spam castaferrum.

>>96302811
Unfortunately volkite is bad.

>>96302926
Huh, does the formation force you to pick Contemptors? I guess they wanted to stop Leviathan Spam (which frankly soudns like a really bad idea) and didn't plan for Legacies

>>96302933
Yes, it literally says the slots can only be filled with contemptors. Which is consistent with previous editions, as the mortificator always had to be attached to a unit of contemptors.

>>96302944
I guess if you're in a boxnought then you aren't a venerated dead, just some dead guy they scraped off the ground with a shovel and tossed into a walking trashcan

>>96302930
Volkite is not bad. It does reliable damage even to MEQ through sheer volume of fire. Specially with pistols getting extra shooting through volley fire.

>>96302915
But you've burned a prime slot and brought a character that does nothing else for your list to do so. Kind of unfortunate.

>>96301251 (OP)
Is that a Loyalist Laniaskara?

While we're on the topics of dreads, what are your thoughts on Deredeos this time around? I wish they had BS5, but their guns are still nasty. How do they compare to a Pred?

>>96302660
Could be similar to the tribal markings aped by Inductii during the later stages of the war. Terrans affirming their loyalty/reclaiming identity/defying Calibanite influence. Just the general gist of people descending into archaic symbols when the war become more hopeless.

>>96302808
who said anything about salamanders?

>Be Horus
>Entrust the Night Lords to go Thramas to keep Lion occupied
>They get raped by the Dark Angels
>Remaining splinter fleets meet up at Sotha
>They get raped by the Ultramarines
>Remaining splinter fleet of the splinter fleet regroups for Siege of Terra
>They get raped by Blood Angels

>>96303104
>They still accomplished their mission of delaying said forces perfectly
>They remained an effective fighting force

>>96303037
I think they're *fine* they just have the same issue every dread has of being insanely slot hungry

>>96303104
Horus was just sending the Night Lords away to keep them occupied, so they couldn't ruin the important battles with their incompetence.

>>96303104
>>Entrust the Night Lords
Ah, there's your problem

>>96303108
I imagine that's what Logistical benefit is for

>>96303037
Even the autocannons look pretty decent this time around. The deredeo seems like a perfectly fine unit, not amazing but also not terrible.

>>96302712
>tfw I messed up and made mine a Traitor, with a metal 40K shoulder pad and everything

>>96303104
I mean, they did their job.
They weren’t ever expected to ever beat any of those legions.
And they still survived.

>>96301353
>Nobody is going to make a breacher/power spear squad

Wait… I tried to find the IW mkii head in the webstore, but I can't. When did GW remove all the old FW legion helmets?

>>96303104
>Be Dorn
>Entrust the Raven Guard to go to Istvaan V to defeat the traitors
>They get raped by the Word Bearers
>Remaining splinter fleets meet up at Terra
>They get raped by the Alpha Legion
>Remaining splinter fleet does nothing for remainder of war
and yet RG get a pass and NL don't?

>>96303256
Cool SoH helmets

>>96303037

I remain unconvinced by the Plasma. If I want to drop a 5" pie-plate down on someone I think I have better options from easier to fit sources. But everything else looks good. The Lascannons decent against AV14, the Volkite is fucking hilarious and the AC's aren't bad against most infantry either.

>>96303112

Since he already had Peterabo and Alpharius/Omegerius for that.

Of course the difference between those two is that Peter-Turbo wasn't doing it on purpose.

>>96301406
Yes, NL fought ion one in their notable battles during HH1 and other legions were mentioned taking action against them elsewhere

>>96303261

That wasn't what he was doing. It's possible this was the one time Dorn actually found his brain.

>Horus is a traitor, Ergo, Everyone could be a traitor.
>Except Lion. And if Robby's gone then we're fucked anyway so plan for him to be loyal.
>Sends every Legion he can to Istvaan V to see who actually turns out to be on who's side.
>Kind of trusts Salamanders, but his jury is out on literally everybody else. Ferrus has been Fulgrims best mate for years. Corvus is a weirdo. Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors are too hard to read. Word Bearers still have that black mark regarding the time dad slapped them down.
>KNOWS that the Night Lords are going to betray him. Last time they met Conrad tried to fucking kill him.
>His own reinforcements "get lost" and "Arrive late" and head back the moment they work out how bad it is.

Dorn would have sent the White Scars as well if they could have made it there on time. As it was, nobody could be sure whose side Jaggy was going to pick.
This was Dorn basically thinking for once, trying to flush out everyone and hopefully work out just how bad it was. Something none of the three loyal primarchs in the middle of this even seemed to question.

>>96303379
With Alpharius/Omegon there was the chance to get a lucky procc where they were more invested in trolling the opposition rather than your own side. Prime example being Istvaan V being mostly planned out by Alpharius.

>>96303261
>>Remaining splinter fleets meet up at Terra
Where they provided assistance in extracting loyalist assets from Mars as the cordon went up.
>>They get raped by the Alpha Legion
Which happened later at Deliverance, not Terra. And the setback they suffered was a failure to gain a new means of regenerating their previous losses, not a loss of any of the few tactical and strategic capabilities they still retained after the Dropsite Massacre.
>>Remaining splinter fleet does nothing for remainder of war
They were the deciding factor in securing the Space Wolves' survival in the Battle of Yarant later in the war.

>>96302248
>WB

I commend you for your faith. Aren't they dogshit in 3.0? They even lost the cool Dark Brethren RoW with nothing to show for it. Show army pls. Luv me some deranged zealots.

>>96303416
The Journal Tactica shines some light on the matter. Back on Terra they were frantic about reviewing everything they knew about the histories, communications, assets and movements of every legion to try and verify the loyalties of each one. At the same time they were trying to make risk assessments and game out how every combination of loyalties might pan out. But since the call for muster had been almost immediate, at some point inertia took over.

>>96303502
Word bearers weren't great outside of spamming mhara gals when I started making plans for this army in 2.0 either, I didn't pick them to win I picked them to make cool conversions and have fun being the bad guy. I've just started painting and building them proper so I don't have much, but I'll post what I've got

>>96303416
>Last time they met Conrad tried to fucking kill him.
He didn't, Conrad lost his cool and slapped Dorn a round a little bit.

>>96303554
Argel Tal looks pretty killy, though he's like 250pts and doesn't really do much outside of pulling out people's spines through their asshole

>>96302076
Other forms of AT are only uncommon because lascannons are better. If lascannons were worse the less point efficient forms of ranged anti tank would be spammed instead.

The actual mechanics of 6th ed vehicle damage were foundationally fucked from the beginning and needed a rework.

>pick up opponent says he's running a fluffy balanced list (2.0)
>Look inside
>2 mhara Ghal, 2 Scorpius, 2 deredeo, 10 man lascannon team

I always bring two lists when playing with people I don't know, one that's my casual list and one that's meant to club people like this down lmao. It's the only way to be sure they realize the error of their ways.

>>96303554
Fucking sick army my dude.

Are the Gal Vorbak the Grim Legionary STL from DMS, now impossible to get? Some anon uploaded it some time ago but like a retard I didn't save it on my pc. Would be grateful if you could share it again desu

>>96303638
Thanks, I don't have it personally (I bought these guys off Etsy, which I do not recommend the seller was a greedy dumbass and had to request the parts they "forgot" to print 3 times and STILL had to buy shoulder pads separately because I was tired of dealing with him) but I know it's on my telegram group so let me download it from there and throw it in a gofile

>>96301251 (OP)
would you rather

pre-Fulgrim EC

OR

pre-Lorgar WB

???

>>96303690
neither sound too interesting desu

>>96301251 (OP)
Do legions have a vehicle similar in operation as the Malcador? Im looking for a SM vehicle that can possibly dish out statuses to a lot of things but im currently not seeing anything that is catching my fancy.

>>96303712
Pretty much every tank can do that, you're gonna have to be more specific

>>96303718
>Specific
I mean the malcador, is there anything in the SM armory that can do its job at 13/13/11 7HP with 3 Multi lasers that can fire at any target and apply suppressed and a battle canon for 180 points
Im trying to find something that can do something similar to this for this point cost.

>>96303731
At that point range you're looking at a Sicaran. A Sicaran Arcus has a million different flavors of missiles and a bunch of Heavy Bolters for 200 pts, and you can play with sponsons and pintle mounts if you want flamers or the like for more status shenanigans

>>96303758
That does look like a pretty good option, i was thinking maybe a Sicarin Punisher with havoc launcher. Wish the side sponsons had a status applier other then the Heavy flamer.

>>96303768
Death is the strongest status effects, and Sicarans can apply it in spades. Of course for a premium you can upgrade to a Kratos and have possibly the most busted tank in the game instead

>>96303731
There's the triple flamer predator with a havoc launcher, could replace the flamestorm cannon with a graviton cannon, and maybe some legion weapon sponson has a sponson, but no the only generic sponson weapon that can status is the heavy flamer which obviously doesn't do the same thing

>>96303261
>>They get raped by the Word Bearers
They provided us with the most one sided ass whooping until Horus v. Sanguinius, at least

>>96303777
the mental image of Horus smacking Sanguinius around like a piñata was solely responsible from changing my mindset from "mauls are lame" to "mauls are sick as fuck"

>>96303731

Most factions seem to have a similar option. Marines have the Sicaran, Mechanicum have the Karacnos, which can happily split fire one Pinning 3 large blast and two Suppressive 0 AP3 small blasts at three different units, no penalties, although that's up to 225pts.

>>96303104
>They get raped by the Dark Angels
Imagine getting raped by the Dark Angels. Oh the irony.
It's only fair the first got raped rulewise in return.

>>96303790
Yeah im just trying to figure out which one i feel would be best. I liked the malcador becuase of individual fire, letting me just shoot at anything i can see to apply effects to a LOT of things at once, But the sicarian with a punisher canon + Havoc launcher lets me get stun, and suppression out on the field.
>>96303812
Yeah we did.

>>96303104
They kept the DAngels occupied for 3 years….and DA only won in the end cause of one of the most literal ‘dues ex machinas’ of the entire setting. Thramas Crusade isn’t the W DA fanboys think it is.

Hell, beyond the Cabal/Grammaticus side story I think the whole ‘Ouroboros’ thing with DA is possibly one of the most retarded threads tied into the whole HH setting. Just the most dumbfuck way possible to explain how traitor DA got thrown through time. Was a fuckin chore reading that shit

Also as an aside I was totally planning on spear breachers but fuckin 2 per melee kit!?! I was so excited to randomly find one in town that i forgot the type of shylocks we deal with at GW. Bleh.

>>96303840

It's conversion o clock time boyo. And it always was.

Paragon rule adds the ability to join Infantry units, it doesn't say May Only. Or cannot join non-infantry units.

Lorgar's rule says he "Can join units with the Malefic sub-type", so RAW he can join Mhara Gal dreadnought units?

The toughness 7 would be strong protection from S4 sniper rifle units which melt other primarchs. In case of a tie in average toughness, highest is used so Lorgar would gain a free +1 toughness outside of challenges.

>>96303818
>Yeah we did.
Unironicall, I feel sorry for you guys.
My pal here plays DA and I could tell just by facing them that they lost A LOT of flavor rulewise. The fact that his trait was litteraly useless didn't help.

>>96303862
Lorgar cannot join a walker unit because they don't share a unit type, his only options are infantry or paragons

>>96303840
>Thramas Crusade isn’t the W DA fanboys think it is.
I might feel that way if all I'd read was Savage Weapons, but since reading Crusade I think it requires some mental gymnastics to ignore how hilariously outmatched the NL were from start to finish. Remember when the DA arrived at Triplex and decided that doing tactics would be pointless because the NL fleet only had a 3:1 numbers advantage? And that actually worked? Hilarious.

>>96303862
You can only join unit of the same type. Paragon gives an exception by letting you join Infantry. So no, he can't join it

>>96303705
why didn't all those idiots in the Saw movies just say something like this?

>chew off your own nuts or be crushed by a billion tonnes of refried beans
>no i don't think so tbqh this is boring me

>>96303862
Most intelligent word bearer

>>96303883
If you think it's useless I don't think you have actually played.
Status shit with negatives are huge now

>>96303104
I mean, outside of infinity mcguffins no traitor legion has ever accomplished more.

Nightlords took the Dark Angels out of the entire defense (Despite DA being the most powerful of all loyalist legions)

Konrad on imperium secundus achieved what should have been a kill on Lion, Guilliman and Vulkan (3 entire primarchs and with Sanguinius arriving to find all 3 of them dead and macragge in chaos and ruins, he would have probably just been stranded there forever) at minimum the loss of those 3 means traitor count is 9 vs 5 primarchs and the emperor dies. A random "infinitely old alien space mcguffin of friendship" spontaneously saves their lives, so Konrad cannot be blamed for bad writing from black library authors.

In said dealings because of Kurze, Guilliman was 1 button press from teamkilling the entire Dark Angels invasion fleet which would force him and Lion to kill each other, and Guilliman got so angry he broke Lion's sword over his knee removing one of the only weapons fit for actually murdering the super chaos primarchs.

Meanwhile, Alpharius - 0 kill count, not even coming close and dies. Perturabo - 0 kill count, not even coming close and quits the game. Horus - nothing achieved by his legion and 0 kill count until plot armor infinite-cheat-codes Ascended nonsense. Fulgrim - 1 kill count at start, then nothing ever achieved. Angron, 1 shared-kill with infinite power Horus but Sanguinius would have 0% chance to avoid dying to infinite-cheats Horus even if Angron had not stabbed him, so it's really 0 kill count, legion achieved nothing at all. Magnus, 0 kill count and gets killed by Vulkan, legion doesn't even attend siege.

>>96303904
Lorgar's special rule gives an exception by letting him join Malefic. It's the exact same wording as Paragon gives.

>>96303895
Paragon units do not share any unit type with infantry. The paragon rule adds the ability to join infantry. The Lorgar's sppecial rule adds the ability to join Malefic. It uses the exact same wording.

>>96303918
least retarded 4chan poster

>>96303883
We lost a lot of flavor which really blow and the thing is, outside of the loss of wings, most of our nerfs came as indirect nerfs
Plasma being gutted basically fucked us hard
Torrent being removed killed our intemptor unit
Heavy sub type being cucked in terms of making it into combat really fucked over ICK which also dont have vanguard for some reason?
DWC are good but again you gotta run tartaros
>>96303922
Its not useless but its very meh in face of others traits, like we get a shitty version of the IW trait, and our gambit is ass. The only good one we have is the reaction our reaction is kinda fucking silly.

So... quick rules query: If you're playing a scenario with Slay the Warlord and First Strike in it... he puts a Praetor into a unit, and you use plentiful Precision (Seekers, Headhunters etc) to kill that Praetor anyway... do I get the First Strike points as well as Slay the Warlord?
Or do I just get slay the warlord because technically the Praetor is part of the unit he joined and I'd only get those points if I killed the entire unit he was joined with?

>>96303840
Tile to print some spears.

>>96303946
Lorgar needs an exception to join malefic units because malefic units don't allow non malefic units to join and he doesn't count as malefic until he's already in the unit. It does not let you break the core rule that you can't have more than one unit type in a unit, because malefic is a subtype not a unit type

>>96302649
They're fucking tanks

>>96302649
Because they last more then half a turn.

>>96303922
I've faced him with my SW. I expected his trait to come into play in mele, but apparently, it doesn't even work in CC for some reasons.
As for shooting... I play SW and had a xiphon, a spartan, and a plasma Dread (not mentionning bolters obviously)
No statuses here.

Bottom line : allow me to return the favor and say that I don't think you actually played the game.
Especially if you can't even figure their legion rule is ass just by reading its application and usefullness on a SM army.

>>96303946
Malefic is not a type, it's a sub-type
A sub-type that limits what can join them
You still need to be able to join them if they weren't malefic, which is not the case with a Walker

>>96303973
Just Slay The Warlord, because the Praetor is part of the unit and you didn't kill the unit to trigger First Strike

>>96303973
When you join a unit you become part of that unit. You need to kill all remaining models of the unit to gain First Strike

>>96303176
where is that spear from? cool af

>>96303669
https://gofile.io/d/10da4535-598f-4f74-b3bb-9137c4ee81dc
All the word bearers stuff I've got, including gal vorbak, ashen circle, two different types of terminator, diabolists, and bits. Enjoy.

I've done it!

>>96303935
>Konrad on imperium secundus achieved what should have been a kill on Lion, Guilliman and Vulkan (3 entire primarchs and with Sanguinius arriving to find all 3 of them dead and macragge in chaos and ruins, he would have probably just been stranded there forever) at minimum the loss of those 3 means traitor count is 9 vs 5 primarchs and the emperor dies. A random "infinitely old alien space mcguffin of friendship" spontaneously saves their lives, so Konrad cannot be blamed for bad writing from black library authors.
Meh, he would never have gotten those kills. It isn't that the McGuffin suddenly saved the three, it's rather that without it being there to do so Konrad would never have been allowed to do as well as he did. These stories aren't written from the beginning and then go wherever they go, they're written basically from the end and then moving forwards instead, since the general outcome of the Horus Heresy has always been known, and in this case it means no primarch would fall there no matter what happened.

>>96304149
Hell yeah dude!
What is it?

So I know im going to have my tartaros command squad focused on anti tank, with them all having combi meltas and some mix of power fists and chain fists (no thunder hammers I'm tired of thunder hammers). Is the ideal mix 5 to 5 for fists and chainfists?

>>96304232
I'm gonna be homest. it doesn't sound like a good idea. Combi meltas are pretty ass. As for chainfist ratio, it depends entirely on what you intend to crack. If you want to get autistic about it, you should math it out so that you are always pretty likely to kill the unit you have in mind. A LR? A Rhino?

>>96304232
You are better off running Rapiers

>>96304232
If they are going to be focusing on antitank duty the ideal number is full chainfists

>>96303844
Me and spear conversion have had a rocky start…..picrel is my 2nd attempt at this guy. I might just have to greenstuff the whole damn pole, which is a shame cause I liked the spikes. Before anyone gets snarky these aren’t for HH, the plan is to make Sanguinary Guard out of a Stormcast gift my well-meaning but not-understanding girlfriend

And I wish I had a printer or knew someone who did, alas. I work with 2nd hand bits from any source I can locally

>>96304275
>Stormcast
Come on anon. Are you going to give him a Primaris bolter too? Or maybe a Halo Assault Rifle?

How to loadout Veteran Breachers?

>>96304275

Bitzbox literally just sell the 3d printed greytide stuff if you want.

>>96304287

Personally? 10 of them with 4 Lascutters in a Rhino. But, I could see an argument for a Graviton gun instead to pin things down first. At that point you're 330 or so points and what you add after that is largely up to you. Augur Scanner to neuter smokescreen might be a good idea. Meltabombs on the Sargeant and you theoretically MIGHT kill a Mastodon in a single round if you went 4 cutters. But generally speaking I feel like 3 Lascutters will probably delete everything else but, fairly reliably.
It depends on how much of a parking lot your opponent likes to make his games.

>>96304193
It's cool!

WS Jump pack chosen rushing go 18", Khan rushing goes 17"
When they want to charge, he goes a shorter distance in the movement phase but goes further in the charge phase
I don't know how good it actually would be, but the idea of Khan naruto running alongside a bunch of jump pack marines is funny to me

The saturnine praetor weapons and bling are on a different sprue to the body so what's the chances we get an alternate praetor kit?

Am I the only one who feels physical pain when I see someone ruin their models with the cataphractii shoulder gap

>>96304451
Thankfully the new kit won't have them.

>>96304258
How do I get those tough? considering GW is out of them to a degree that they neither sell them, nor can stores order any from them.

>>96304460
recast the old rapiers

>>96304281
Nah, they’re for display and learning greenstuff, drilling and painting knightly armor proper. I only gave him an old tac sgt gun so his hand wasn’t empty. I said they weren’t for HH so settle your sperg, you ass. Was just showing my attempt at spears.

>>96304292
I’ll give em a look but I try not to use my credit card/order things much. I’ve gone overboard before so I just try and stay away. Thank you though

Now that melta bombs can no longer attack dreadnoughts and battle automata...what can regular SM infantry do against those? Just fall back? I think people overestimate the ammount of thunder hammers an army has (they're busy hitting other TH wielders :^))

>>96304545
>..what can regular SM infantry do against those?
Nothing much. Try not charge a leviathan with your tac marines.

Which Legion has the coolest terminators?

>>96304545
Most things that could take meltabombs can take a power fists and that's pretty much the same thing or better against a dread
I've never even heard of anyone using meltabombs to kill dreads in 2.0

>>96304577
Aesthetic wise, rule wise or statwise?
I think lerneans are the sexiest, JUSTaerin or deathwing companions in terminator armor with terranic great swords are the strongest, and I don't think any terminator squad has a cool above 8, so any of those.

>>96304528
I only play with plastic stuff. But you are right, if I used resin models, then probaly would be a good idea. Maybe even recast most or at least all the weapon options to not buy expansion packs for weapons.

>>96302585
I've always thought HQ ought to give something to your army besides just a champion figure. I mean, you have an actual champion there. Although that guy is a disappointment w/o Prime. Weapon-locked, Herald got his rules. At least the champ unlocks a sweet detachment

>>96304577
c'mon bub

>>96304577
Like that's even a question

>>96304762
This is why I like the new FOC. Those commanders are giving you extra troops. That's their purpose. Much better than them being random buff machines like in 40k where they give completely asinine and nonsensical buffs to units.

Would it be weird to use a ton of MkVI in a non-RG army? AFAIK only Pert and Mort hated it

>>96301452
Nine because 3.0 sucks my fucking nuts and so does anyone else that caves to this edition.

>>96304818
Fucking get over it already

>>96304577
SoH

>>96304798
>AFAIK only Pert and Vulkan hated it
FTFY
And they hated it just because it wasn't a new MkIII. It's still a regular suit of power armour that worked just as well as MkII, IV and V. All legions used all marks in numbers.

>>96304577
Iron Warriors, so cool that another legion had to copy them.

>>96304861
Other way around bud, tyrant siege were stolen from ultramarines visions art

>>96304798
According to nuLore it was totally the main power armour mark for all legions by the end stages of the heresy

>>96304833
I’m over it. Time for you to get over that 3.0 sucks my decently sized cock.

>>96304871
"Developed by Roboute Guilliman as a refinement of the Tyrant Siege Terminators used by his brother Perturabo."

>>96304798
It depends on the stage of the war and the legion. At first MkVI was a minority even in the AL/RG despite the flanderization. RG got most of their suits after going back to Terra.

By the mid war, all legions were issuing it in masse to their inductii or to replace damaged suits in addition to MkV. Two exceptions seem to have been:
> EC
Besides inductii, lots of their vets and elites got it, probably out of the novelty?
> TS
Canonically they didn't have inductii or recruited at all, but FW introduced loyalist TS refitted at Terra for the Cthonia campaign. YMMV

>>96304911
You sure as fuck don't sound over it

>>96304818
You can sit in your cuck chair watching everyone else talk about 3.0 while you seethe about it, posting retarded passive aggressive faggotry isn't going to stop anyone

>>96304936
Inductii were usually shitty newbies right? Feels weird to give the "special operative" armor Mk to the newfags

>>96304765
>>96304771
OH NO NO NO NOOO SOH BROS

>>96305077
MkVI was just highly available by the end of the heresy (which is why you still see it everywhere in 40k), and tended to be quieter + havebetter sensors. It's not the spec-ops armor by any means.

>>96305077
The main production model is presumably not at all 'special operative' oriented

>>96305021
>>96305060
lol you shills are so easy to point out. You guys are genuinely retards for enjoying that sloppa.

>>96305077
As much as it was special operations armour (and certainly would be in later millenia), it was also the next "main" armour mark about to be rolled out to the legions en masse, the same way Mk IV had replaced Mk II (and Mk III to a lesser extent) - so there was a lot of it in forges' warehouses and legion logistics centres, ready to be issued the next time an expeditionary fleet came for resupply. In ideal circumstances you issue it to the veterans, but if you've got thousands of casualties, and a bunch of new inductii, you give them what you have

>>96304931
He's means the art in Visions appeared before HH3 retconned it to having been an Ultramarine refinement of an earlier IW concept

>>96305158
Kill yourself nigger

>just got my 50$ Lion recast in the mail
>the quality is fucking superb, everything I could have hoped for
We're so back bros.

Has anyone here built corswain, and if so can you tell me if he has a proper "back" beneath that cape? Can you build him without it?

>>96305077
If I had newbies and was running on fumes, I'd give them those obsolete MkII and send them out to kill and get killed. And I certainly wouldn't equip them all with fine charnabal sabres. Just who wrote their rules?

>>96305193
It's one of those things that GW never really made their mind up about. In 40K old armours are seen as venerable relics, and even now with the MkII release they're sold as "Veteran" Legionaries who use Disintegrator weapons. It makes little sense, but I suppose they had to play the angles instead of just putting out yet another infantry kit with bolters.

>>96305193
>I'd give them those obsolete MkII
Point is by that time they didn't have mk2 left and nobody was making any more. The forges were making mk4 and mk6 (or 5 if they couldn't make anything else) and the stockpiles were of those.

>>96305193
>with fine charnabal sabres
charnabal sabers are just normal swords. There's nothing technologically complex about about them

>>96305167
I want to buy recast but I live in a country that's really, really tricky with importing items so I think it's not worth the hassle. Imo I'll probably just get the plastic one and convert it a bit.

>>96305259
and yet they're better than chainswords

>>96305266
There isn't even that much converting to do, just exchange the shield for something else. Not sure if the Watchers were around in 30k either, but they're just basing material.

>>96305181
yes you can, his upper body near his arms is a little wonky but you can arm swap him. I have before

>>96305290
Thats good to know.

>>96305288
I know, but I want to at least put in a little bit of effort to make it look more like it fits the Heresy. Not sure about the sword, I think I like the chainsword as seen in >>96305167
quite a bit more. Anyone got any ideas on where to source a big fuckoff chainsword like that?

>>96305266
I wouldn't purely because I think the 40k armour looks awful. I much prefer the 30k design.

>>96305281
It's all up to the skill of the user. You are technically paying for them to be that good with a basic weapon, not for the technology of the weapon itself

>>96304577
World Eaters

>>96304861
>Copy
Improve

>>96302248
How did you make the heavy flamers? Looks really cool

Tell me how stupid an idea this is: would loyalist TSons defacing an Eye of Horus into an Eye of Ra be cool or does the symbolism not work that way in the darkness of the far future?

>>96305362

It looks like he shorn the handles off a Rotor cannon and then attached that to a Heavy Flamer... sponson? From the Predator kit?

>>96305077
>Inductii were usually shitty newbies right?
Again, depends on the legion. Most of them were just plain rookie legionaries thrown into the meatgrinder to cover losses. The basic tactical or despoiler profile fits them perfectly. Some legions gave them different markings until they proved themselves.
HH2 introduced the idea of giving them alternate loadouts to make them more interesting, but that's just a gamey thing.

A few traitor legions and the RG took shortcuts to get more marines faster, with usually bad or unstable results (mutant ragetards that lived less, usually).

>>96305372
Oh nice, got more Inductii markings?

>>96305372
I see the inductii loadouts as a way to represent the changing tactics throughout the war. In the case of fists, for example, maybe there were not enough recruits to replace all the lost HSS or not enough with sufficient experience to do it, so instead they chuck a heavy weapon on each inductii tactical squad so they get some experience before being moved to a HSS.

>>96305372
The WS inductii were my favorite because they got FNP 5+ against WS5+ attacks and gave you a fucking Victory Point if you ever successfully saved using it

>>96305372
Note that "inductii" existed before the war, legions like WE or WB were already increasing their numbers as fast as they could, although without the later shorcuts

>>96305398
Yes.
Here's one from the RG. They got these guys after the sabotaged mutant Raptors program

>>96305259
Nah they're like space age katanas, but without shitty iron. A regular sword is a Melee (User) weapon, but perfectly balanced and monomolecular, it gains Breaching and Duelist edge and such

>>96305266
Speaking of plastic Primarchs, while I know that Mortarion and his boys got all Nurgled up just before the siege, are all of the other ones fair game?

>>96305468
Pic related was NOT a typical BA inductii, but part of a borderline blackshield force operating outside the influence of the main BA legion in Terra.

>>96305425
>"inductii" existed before the war
Mwahaha

>>96305457
Interesting, so they even had inductii officers. Clearly no inductii maintenance personnel though

>>96305496
Anon, it says Inductii Soron was confirmed KIA three separate times... That's NOT the original Soron. Just like the original Legion Master, he got cannibalized as to preserve his persona.
*Now* he is Soron indeed; just not the original one.

>>96305259
I can't recall which one but I know it's in one of the black books that charnabal blades are minutely patterned with tiny serrations.

>>96305165
That’s right enjoy your shithole of an edition.

>>96305530
And? All these guys were still inductii, and were painted in a non-standard scheme

>>96305469
Fulgrim and Angron are fair game, not sure about the top two. I guess Magnus had his whole illusion magic thing, but Mortarion has way too many bits that are obviously purpose-built to be Nurgly, not just warped armor. Then again I think there's a HH art piece that's literally this version so...

>>96305538
Anon, him being inductii is the least of our problems now. That guy is a cannibal zombie! Get away from him! We need the flamer! D:

>>96305496
>>96305538
I always thought that meant traitor forces falsified his death three separate times.

>>96305542
Magnus was the last to become a daemon prince. It happened in the last stages of the siege.

>>96305448
>thunder edge
It's a shame there's no way of getting them in plastic.

>>96305547
Don't worry, he's in our side
>>96305548
More like the BA later covering what happened

>>96305572
I wonder if Sangy's shoulder gem looking like the Eye of Horus is inetntional

>>96305563
It's a shame that GW is retarded yes. All the classic melee weapon patterns from FW color plates should have been in plastic, instead of the xbox fuck huge toy-like anime versions we got.

>>96305585
It's a good guess, sadly the original John Blanche concept art doesn't have notes

>>96302654
honestly? nothing unique outside of grav status spam. cav generally don't do anything unique in this bland edition

>>96305614
We need more sick-ass pelts in our minis

>>96305607
I suppose they'll use them in the mk4 or mk5 assault squad but still. Who knows when those will release.

>>96305614
Those chest gems always make me think of this

Do you think we'll get any resin saturnine characters or upgrades?

Post your characters

>>96305687
Good catch. I bet Blanche was thinking about that, too. It makes sense given that Sanguinius is a Jesus-like myth in 40k

Is it worth giving Chainaxes to the Breacher Vets that aren't getting a power weapon/power fist/special weapon?

>>96305362
>>96305369
Close, handles of old mk3 heavy bolters cut off and glued to heavy flamer from pintle weapons sprue because I was too much of a cheapskate to buy the heavy flamer upgrade kit for two guys

>>96305719
Probably

>>I only play with plastic stuff
>>96304743

microplastic brain

Shred should be +1 to wound

>>96305853
Whats the point of shred on heavy chainswords then? You make chainswords better for despoilers (and basically only despoilers) but you ruin several weapons entirely in the process.

>>96301406
They've been a thing for as long as Humanity has had access to Warp Travel. IIRC in the Battlefleet Gothic manual the Divine Right, an Emperor-class battleship, was mentioned to have been recovered from a space hulk in M36 and had been in the warp for no less than 10 millennia.

>>96305853
>>96305861
What should they be then? I suppose the order was to remove rerolls, but then you're left with something that should benefit both a chainsword, heavy chainsword and chainfist
I mean +1D on a good strike is fine, but Chainswords don't really care for that when hitting 1W enemies

ngl I miss rerolls

>>96306014
I don't know why they took them out. They can get cancerous when you get to 40k-level "full rerolls to hit and wound" or "rerollable 3++" but stuff like Shred or Hatred is perfectly fine and flavorful

>>96306001
>What should they be then?
What they currently are.

>>96306021
it makes everything about volume. wiffing two shots on a super heavy sure feels bad

>>96301406
Space hulks don't need to be made of humans ships. For example, the space hulk Gallowdark not only features a bunch of non-Imperial vessels, but the original vessel was an alien one. We mostly see Imperial ones because spooky scary human architecture. I'm also guessing because space hulks probably drift around the same currents Imperial ships use to travel through Imperial space, so the likelihood of Imperials encountering them is higher than a xenos one drifting in from xenos space. Maybe.

>>96306061

There's probably a lot of Ork ships mashed in as well, which is going to further confuse the issue as a lot of Ork ships are salvaged Imperial ships.
Also... how many other races even use the warp in the first place? You're unlikely to see an Eldar ship in a Space Hulk, same for Tau. So the vast majority of ships in the galaxy using warp drives are Imperials, Chaos that used to be Imperials then Orks, some of which also used to be imperal.
After that it's just Donut Steel Species Ships. I can't imagine a Necron ship getting lodged in one either.

>>96305731
>>96305369
Cool, thanks!

>>96306021
I don't know if they needed total exclusion from the game but they do more often than not feel like a waste of time, whilst things like exploding 6s feels way better. It's crazy the amount of times a master crafted weapon rerolls a one and you are left wandering what the rule is even suppoed to represent.

>>96306106
>how many other races even use the warp in the first place?
Everyone who doesn't have access to the Webway (so everyone who's not Eldar or Necron). There's plenty of races out there and plenty of them have Warp capable ships. We just don't hear about them them because GW doesn't care about promoting stuff they don't make models for. Like how nigh all Chaos worshipers are humans despite being effectively born yesterday on a galactic timeframe and Chaos stretching the whole of time, the universe and all realities beyond.

>>96306152
yeah but now your single shot laser destroyer rolls a one and you fell like shit. Rerolls bring consistency

>>96306168
but then the lethality of the 'consistently hitting' weapon now has to be curtailed further down the line to avoid being too strong, usually in an equally obnoxious way that is simply adding more steps and time to the game.

SoH is tempting me with an army of breachers, vet breachers, reavers, chieftains and justaerin, a heavy assault force

possible? would it be any good?

>>96306216
Yes, absolutely. That's exactly the army you're intended to play with SoH, just look at Supremacy Cadre. Two Prime troops, an elite and a HS slot. Justaerins are some of the best termies around, so squads of 5 on LRs charging enemy points while your combat veteran troops hold down your own objectives are the name of the game. Reavers are ass though, and I haven't looked at chieftains but if they're like reavers they're ass too. Just take assault and vet assault squads instead, they do exactly the same thing but better.

>>96306258
heres the rules for chieftains

kinda an alt-command squad

>>96302712
What's the best thing to use him as?

>>96306270
Very interesting, you can't fire the bolters in volley fire, can you? IFunny that they have pistols AND bolters AND shields AND melee weapons, you should probably model them with a shitload of equipment hanging off their backs. How do they compare to regular cmd squad though? They're more expensive, less attacks due to not having a sgt (can't take master sergeant either), can't take claws or hammers, and all of that in exchange for the honour rule. Also unless I'm missing something these guys can't actually challenge, they need to have an IC with them or their rule is worthless. Granted +1 to wound is pretty powerful when it goes off

>>96306352
they also have shield so can use shieldwall if needed
no idea if they can use it if a character joins them tho

>>96306530
You can, shieldwall checks majority having shield trait. It's heavy they'd lose out on

>>96306352
Its really just for the shield bonuses yeah.
Also its kinda funny that they are literally described as being a unit of ALL officers, but they can't challenge or anything.

Which edition has the most fun list building? Because that's all I'm going to be doing for the foreseeable future.

>>96306216
>>96306352
>you can't fire the bolters in volley fire, can you?
No, that's what the pistols are for
But Veteran breachers can take volkite chargers for double shooting
And Veteran HSS have implacable advance so SoH rule on them is pretty brutal

>>96306551
Just make an army that is fun and looks interesting you nerd, why worry about bullshit rules that are just gonna change every 3 years?

>>96306530
>>96306544
Regular cmd squad can buy shields for 2ppm, still cheaper than these guys. They lose their pistols though. All in all, they look like a solid sidegrade, especially since the pistols are extra worth it given Death Dealers. I just wish they were Banestrike. They're already holding Banestrike bolters, just slot the mags into the pistols!
>>96306544
also a shame that they can't take the SoH special prime upgrade given it only works with elites. Honestly, it feels like the entire SoH ruleset was built around Justaerin and everything else was a bit of an afterthought

>>96306559
do you really want to be charging your HSS into melee though? MAYBE if you added a Moritat for Firestorm, but at that point the Legion trait is useless. Either way I don't think you want your premium ranged squad stuck in melee combat

>>96306562
I need something structured to work towards. Was trying to get into HH2 a couple months before the 3.0 leaks occurred. It looks like my LGS sort of just moved on from HH instead of picking an edition, no one has bought HH3 yet.

>>96306199
we call this 'points'

>>96306572
>it feels like the entire SoH ruleset was built around Justaerin and everything else was a bit of an afterthought
Same story since HH1. Reavers have never been comparable.
In HH3, it's even more offensive that the rules gave the RG the SoH decapitation gimmick.
It's like the author have forgotten that the SoH are the speartip legion

>>96306580
Depending on what you're shooting, there's unlikely to be much left alive after 2 rounds of shooting. Honestly though, fuck volleyfire, this is such an imbalanced rule, I unno why GW has a hard on with buffing shooting and nerfing melee - the game needs a reliance on melee being more lethal than shooting for good gameflow.

>>96306621
Instead, their special reaction is... they can turn down challenges they'd win anyways? Because... .they're proud? Shouldn't that be an EC thing?

>>96306585
THen just use 3e rules (since there are some new units) then just ignore any gear restrictions that weren't there in 2e because they're all gay nofunallowed bullshit from GW.

>>96306580
>MAYBE if you added a Moritat for Firestorm, but at that point the Legion trait is useless.
A moritat doesn't give the unit full BS volley fire, it just lets you cancel the charge without penalty
But there's nothing stopping you from doing it either way.
Step-up moves are not mandatory. If you declare a charge on something more than 6" away you are auto failing it but you get to shoot volley fire anyways
And the downside is basically none existent because you have to check for stun, with no negative modifiers, on a unit that has Cool 8. It's only about 27% chance to get it
And even if you do fail it, since it's your turn, you get to roll to remove the status in the end phase, so that's another 73% chance to not end up with it on the enemies turn, where you actually need to use reactions
Even non veteran marine units are not gonna suffer from doing this all that much. There's just not that many where it's actually worth doing

>>96306216
>SOH colour plates make them metallic green
>The novels say they are metallic green
>Not a single soul, not even FW painted the models metallic green
>1800 versions of the matte green exist
Why.

>>96306625
But melee IS more lethan than shooting. There arent ranged units that put out 3 s7 Ap2 D2 shots per model per turn,hss have as its closest equivalents either the Ap4 rending 6+ autocannon or the single shot (conditionally d1) lascannon.

Melee is the more lethal part of the game and where the best answers to some of the hardest to kill units are found. Its just harder to get to (since its range "base contact") and worse vs vehicles.

>>96306551
Unironically 3.0

>>96306711
Well, for starters Salamanders are already metallic green. And SoH are sea green, because that color represents the chaos of the churning sea. And they're the first (roll with it) chaos marines.

>>96306728
>Salamanders are already metallic green
Since when? I've never seen them represented in metallic green. But every FW art of SoH has them with a metallic shine.

>>96306728
>Well, for starters Salamanders are already metallic green
NTA but, i dont think they are ever described as metalic green, they are always described as emerald green.

To the best of my knowledge the only metalic colored legions is Tsons and AL. And i guess IW by technicality.

>>96306728
Bur they aren't though. The word bearers are. By like, few decades.

>>96306722
how so? It's a disaster on new recruit and everyone who talks about it says it is fucking awful.

I keep reading through Legion rules, seeing "this buffs Centurions" and taking half a second to remember that that's no longer any Consul and I can't give my Librarian the Death Guard prime advantage to get an EW2 biomancer and cosplay Crysos Morturg. This is entirely a skill issue on my part, but still. Feels like making Marine HQs seventy different units has mostly just increased clutter.

On a vaguely related note, despite being 170pts, a WS6 Biomancy/Divination librarian with a jump pack and a force axe is pretty fun. Stab people on 2+ at the equivalent of I5 because of Duelist's Edge 2, have 4 S7 AP2 D2 attacks from Biomancy + Force. Would be fun to throw on Terminator Armour as well, but it's so expensive to get termie units into combat that I think I'd rather just tape the funny character to my Ursarax and have him boost them up to T7. Maybe Blackshields will have a more choppy option for me there, I'm getting nothing from DG legion rules.

>>96306753
>It's a disaster on new recruit
Give them a bit of time so they can implement it. That doesn't make the system bad.
>everyone who talks about it says it is fucking awful.
Not really? Many brainlets got confused in the start but once you start writing lists it's pretty straightforward. I like it because it makes more sense to have command units unlock troops.

>>96306753
New recruit is like 90% of the way there with the base liber stuff, and I bet people are already working on the legacies entries as we speak. You can get by pretty well with it, and get used to the new FOC system

>>96306753
List building in 3.0 should not be problem if you have above room temp IQ
People here always say everything sucks, it doesn't matter what it is.
There was a lot of bitching when 2.0 came out as well but you've hardly seen anyone mention 1.0 in the last 3 year and you will hardly see anyone mention 2.0 in a couple of months
Same as usual

>>96306639
>>96306722
So, current rules, all editions' wargear/data sheets? Not having learned any system yet, I was assuming different editions value different play styles (partially from mechanics, partially from points values).

>>96306753
I am still struggling to get over 2 detachments used. Like, I literally can fit on all of my 6k points of word bearers and STILL have detachments spare. Seriously, WTF are people running, 1 of each unit in the game?

>>96306721
To add on the topic if not the literal thing I was responding to: Yes, volley fire gives certain ranged units an advantage in the stage of the game you would expect melee units to do better in. But it also helps address an area which was previously really hurting "hybrid" units or "melee unit that can shoot a little".

Things like destroyers or even terminators suffered from not getting to use their guns very much, they were basically an afterthought because by the time you get a volley off youre either charging or being charged next turn. So you may as well not have had them. Melee units were encouraged very heavily to try for a double melee weapon loadout. Volley fire tries to adress that, it made destroyers (and to a lesser but still notable bikes) incredibly lethal "hybrid" units, it made terminator shooting actually noteworthy, it made a melee unit upgrading its pistols actually a consideration rather than something you would never do.

I dont think volley fire is perfect, some things like "casualties are only removed once the charge is rolled" or whatever might be warranted, but it helps create a more reactive game and adds more nuance to what makes for a good assault unit.

>>96306771
>Crysos Morturg.
Legacies covers pretty much everything missing from the libers, but it's easy as fuck to add any missing wargear. Just pay 10 points to get your champion a thunder hammer.

>>96306721
It should go without saying, but shooting has the advantage of... range.
You shoot people from far away, but now you get to shoot people AGAIN at close range for free.

The trade off is meant to be shooty units want to stay away from melee units because they'll get chopped, but now they can in many cases double tap them, not actually charge, then overwatch for a 3rd round of shooting if they're still even alive in their turn.

>>96306778
What the fuck are you doing? Are you maxing out on every single slot with all the upgrades? Lets say you only take the crusade primary detachment, where's your anti-tank? Post some example lists because I feel like you're arguing in bad faith, it's not possible to build something so ass unless it's on purpose

>>96306781
>ranged has the advantage of range
yes, it is more consistent and easy to access damage at the "cost" of being "less damage". A ranged unit will almost always have a lower damage output than a melee unit of a similar cost (tacticals being a notable exception) but have a much easier time actually getting value out of its damage.

>can triple tap
The units that can double tap/triple tap are, like destroyers or bikes, units that are SUPPOSED to do that. HSS arent volley firing their lascannons, marines cant volley fire their bolters. If a unit has implacable advance or firestorm it is - de facto if not also almost always by design - a hybrid assault unit if not an outright melee unit.

You can also now cancel out overwatch entirely by getting into setup distance.
>but the enemy can just move away
Then they cant overwatch anyways

>>96306753
40k tourists love the detachment system because it reminds them of the stories they heard about 7th edition they missed out on

>>96306847
3.0 is nothing like 7th's formations though?

So with the new kit will terminators finally come with volkites? I assume they'll share a combi/heavy weapon upgrade with the eventual updated tartaros.

>>96306874
We literally saw the vokite cata arm.

>>96306874
1) We don't even know if there will be a kit, much less what will come with it.
However,
2) We've been teased with what looks to be a (Cata?) termie arm holdign a volkite, and we've seen updated Cata designs in the art, so presumably yes, the new Cata kit exists and it comes with Volkite.

>>96306874

You'll be lucky if they come with something other than fists and a single chainfist and power-sword.
Then they'll release a melee sprue down the line that has one of each power weapon and a single Thunderhammer and charge you £18 for two of them.

>>96306884
Yeah but there's a difference between including a single gun and having one combi bolter or volkite charger for each model out of the box.
>>96306885
I'm pretty certain we know there will be a new kit with this design.

>>96306897
Also here's nuMk4 since we're at it.

>>96306753
The list building in 3.0 (just choosing the units you want to) is the best. It is extremely easy to build what ever you want to.

The major downsides is being forced to take HQs to make that work, GW gutting all the options and flavor from units and legions, and the game playing in a way that forces you to run a whole bunch of Line units in Rhinos so they can sit on objectives.

>>96306780
This feels like the most sense to do in the long run. Anyone who might want to play HH will end up using 3.0 too.
3.0 coming out so soon stings a bit extra because I was hopping in at the worst time to learn 2.0 as a first table top system. It's not like I have to pay to learn how to play and list build.

>>96306904
>the game playing in a way that forces you to run a whole bunch of Line units in Rhinos so they can sit on objectives.
That's based, actually.

>>96306904
yea cuz last edition you didn't need Line or anything

>>96306904
>s, and the game playing in a way that forces you to run a whole bunch of Line units in Rhinos so they can sit on objectives.
Well done, you described warhammer since the invention of objectives.
line is also the least important its ever been relative to alternatives.

>>96306928
No you didn't because you won by beating your opponent like in every actual wargame (not 40shits)

>>96306780
>Just pay 10 points to get your champion a thunder hammer.
>waacfag bitching he cant take easy ws6 thunder hammers so he cheats them in
KYS

>>96306756
>nd I can't give my Librarian the Death Guard prime advantage to get an EW2 biomancer and cosplay Crysos Morturg
Just run him as a regular librarian then? You dont need EW(2) and the extra wound.

>>96306928
>>96306973
MFW you can win the game by rushing magic circles then having your entire army tabled before the enemy can catch up on VP

>>96307001
>mfw I wipe out the enemy forces in the region but they win because they accomplish all their tactical objectives in the region
wtf this is bullshit!

>>96307001
God forbid a game has more nuance than just killing everything, allowing for closer games and asymmetrical advantages.

>>96306815
The most mobile units in the game are really the ones that least deserve to double/triple tap.

>>96306856
It is though?
Many formations in 7e was 'pick a hero from X/y/z options. pick 2-3 troops from these options. etc'.

Only difference is 40k detatchments have completely insane, broken bonuses that just got powercrept more and more, while 30k detatchments just have meme fucking prime powers, and are generally less restrictive on what you can take (and are smaller).

>>96306928
HH2 missions
Mission 1: Kill Points
Mission 2: Kill Points + 1 OBJ in opponents deployment zone
Mission 3: Units in enemy deployment zone
Mission 4: Progressive Scoring OBJs
Mission 5: Area Control
Mission 6: Kill Points and EoG OBJs

HH3 missions
Mission 1: 3 OBJs Progressive scoring
Mission 2: 4 OBJs Progressive scoring
Mission 3: 2 OBJs Progressive scoring

Assuming you couldn't table the enemy, you NEEDED line in mission 4 and 5, the rest you could manage with Kills and denial units.

>>96306874
The rules have catas with volkite chargers as their default weapon. The odds of a new box with volkite is 100%.

The odds of a new tartaros box that has zero fists/hammer/chainfists is probably still 100% even considering the rules flipflop, simply because its probably too late in production to do anything about the physical models.

>>96307009
7th's formations were just a bonus you got if you took certain units. That's nothing like the new FOC and certainly won't give you shit like free transports.

>>96307009
>It is though?
n...no, its not lol.
Formations in 7th ed were more akin to RoW then they were detachment systems.

Detachment systems are an 8th ed thing.

>>96307007
>>96307003
No, you're missing the point. The game ends instantly when one army is tabled, but if you leave 1 model alive, you can continue to accrue vp's for the rest of the game.

So we have a game where there is a mechanical disinsentive to actually kill the enemy in some cases, which yes, is retarded.

Tabling the enemy is generally considered a win because if the enemy is dead then there is no one left to stop YOU from taking all those objectives.

Gaming the rules by accruing lots of VP in the first turn then suiciding your entire army to instantly win is extremely fucking gay, and is not nuanced in any sense, it's pure gamey bullshit.

>>96307023
Some of them were insane.
That AdMech War Conclave one gave you like 1500 free points worth of wargear.

>>96307009
>The most mobile units in the game are really the ones that least deserve to double/triple tap.
Hybrid melee units that trade overall melee power for some ranged ability should be able to use both parts of their kit.

>>96307023
>>96307025
did you nerds never play an army using a detatchment of detatchments?
This was quite literally an entire style of list building that just had a whole bunch of detatchments (i.e. like 30k).

>>96306847
>7th edition
I assume you mean the same tourist stories you've heard from not actually playing the game cuz 3.0 has fuck all to do with 7th edition

>>96307046
>(i.e. like 30k).
Still nothing like the new FOC my dude.

>>96307042
except units never trade melee power for some shooting, except for rare exceptions like dreadnaughts, and twin claw models. No one else has to give up any melee benefits to have more shooting... and even if they did, being able to shoot once instead of twice doesn't mean they 'don't get to use both parts of their kit'.

>>96307055
How is this not the same?
Both armies are formed of just a bunch of different detatchments, all of which have their own requirements and limitations of what units and how many are in said detatchment?

I genuinely don't understand how you could argue these aren't very similar.

>>96307046
>3.0
>Take an HQ, this lets you take 1 or 2 detachments themed around a specific role
>7th 40k
>Take 2 units of devastators in drop pods and 2 units of assault marines
>They all come down without rolling on the first turn and can disembark, move and fire all their weapons at full BS
>Your devastators also have 5 shot Ap 3 weapons
Same thing really

>>96307046
Yeah dude its nothing like the new FOC
7th ed formations for the most part were very strict in what you had to take, and provided specific bonsues to those units in said formation.

Example being i could take a deathwing formation and it let me shoot twin linked when i came in from deep strike and let me Deep strike turn 2 i think automatically, i could only take death wing terminators, command squad or knights and a dread if it was in a drop pod.

Ravenwing i had to take specifically x amount of black knights in order to run that formation, and it gave me some other benifits as well.

There was one for Choas were you had to run a D prince for each mark in ordre to use it. So not it was not like detachmetns at all.

>>96307074
>>96307080
I already said the big difference is how powerful detatchment bonuses were in 7e vs 3e 30k detatchments, but ok just ignore me I guess.

>>96307068
Because the point of 7th detachments was to give you ridiculous benefits and not just letting you take the units to begin with?
Are you being retarded on purpose?
By your definition 1 mandatory HQ and 2 mandatory troops in the original FOC is the same thing

>>96307090
Why do you people keep harping on about the bonuses? Its not about the bonuses, its about the list building, which is what the original anon was saying.

Both changed list building from a previous force org chart to multiple detatchment building blocks. Yes they're obviously not identical, yes they give different bonuses for using them, but its very clearly a similar style of building a list.

Of course the other big difference is they are mandatory in 30k and option in 7e, and 30k requires the funny centurion tax for duel minigames, while 7e just let you take as many unhinged detatchments as you could fit.

>>96307088
Im not ignoring you im telling you they are not the same.
Formations in 7th ed were a lot more strict and had requirements in order to take them. Like you HAD to fill out specific slots in a formation before you got access to it.

Detatchments you dont need to do that, you can just fill the slot with pretty much anything that fits that role and you don't need to fill the rest of said slots.
Also you can take multiple of the same detachment, you could not do that with formations.

>>96307061
>except units never trade melee power for some shooting
>destroyers
>bikes
Both of those units are worse in melee than equivalent counterparts, the trade-off is they can shoot better on the assault. Hence they get rules to let them shoot when they assault or get assaulted.

>but they get to fire their pistols once!
Yea, and we remember how powerful that was right? These units have ranged capability instead of melee capability, them getting to use their ranged capability in-place of/supplementing their melee is entirely fair.

>>96307116
>Im not ignoring you im telling you they are not the same
No one is suggesting they are completely identical, but 30k detatchments are much closer to 40k detatchments (for LIST BUILDING), than a traditional FOC that both game systems otherwise ran.

>Also you can take multiple of the same detachment, you could not do that with formations
Yes you could, the detatchment of detachment lists very explicitly let you do so, and even gave you (yet more) fucking bonuses for doing so in some cases.

i.e. double demi company bull shit, running multiple of the same aux detatchments etc.

>>96307074
God I loved that one. My drop pods have been unused since but it was glorious.

>>96307115
Because the whole point of formations was the bonuses?? You can still take whatever outside them because they are not the FOC, just a bonus.

>>96307132
Thats not trading off their melee power... thats a entirely separate unit.
a lascannon HSS squad hasn't given up melee power to get that ranged AT, they never had the melee power to begin with.

>Yea, and we remember how powerful that was right? These units have ranged capability instead of melee capability
If 1 shot bolt pistols are too shitty, than just buff them then? But not shooting pistols was never an issue of them being weak (which they are) it was (and still is) an issue of wound allocation making shooting a unit you want to charge actively detrimental unless you're at pointblank range.
Being able to shoot twice as much doesn't change that dynamic for units that actually want to get a charge off, so volleyfire only truly benefits strong shooty units, and I guess the unit being charged is getting free bonuses as well.

>>96307141
>40k tourists love the detachment system because it reminds them of the stories they heard about 7th edition they missed out on
Remind me again why the 30k FOC reminds people of the formations they "missed on" when they don't do the one thing people took formations for, like the bonuses?

>>96307152
I am talking about detatchments of detatchment lists. I don't care about the bonuses, thats not what anon was talking about, he was specfically saying for LIST BUILDING purposes.
As in you take 'blood angel ass blaster dynamic entry force' which specifies you need 1+ core detatchments of 'blood angel angry blood people' detatchments 0-5 command detatchments of insertoptions here, 1+ aux detatchments of insert detatchments here.

i.e. you didn't use the normal force org at all.

>>96306903

Do we just have the one image of the new Mk 5?

>>96307158
>a lascannon HSS squad hasn't given up melee power to get that ranged AT, they never had the melee power to begin with.
Lascannon HSS arent hybrid units that now benefit from volley fire, making them irrelevant to the conversation.

>>96307158
>If 1 shot bolt pistols are too shitty, than just buff them then?
Thats retarded
"yea destroyers have special 8 shot pistols because reasons, no no one elses uses them"
The issue was that units that pay for ranged abilitty to supplement their melee ability, rather than specialize into pure shooting or pure melee, did not get any real benefit from their equipment, that there was no space or use for hybrid capability. There now is.

>melee units dont benefic
Except all the ones that do. Like terminators, destroyers, bikes... Justaerin and their 4 breaching shots each absolutely care about volley fire, they love it.

>>96307184
Justies being physically incapable of charging anything unless it get status'd first because move react + any casualties from volley fire is a thing btw.

Although thats more that the heavy subtype is extremely cursed, than volleyfire.

>>96307203
The average move react is 4", their step up is 1", if they move away just dont shoot on the way in, shoot on the way out since you cant pursue with heavy

>>96307181
There's no pics of nuMk5, only new pics of the old design and the apothecary. Similarly we don't know how the new Tartaros will look.

>>96306992

That's the plan, I just wish the bonus applied to more than just the detachment tax. I suppose a lot of the Legion Prime Advantages are basically meant to make the vanilla HQs slightly more interesting, though.

>>96307263
Well there's also Haar. Seems like mk5 is the least changed.

Can IW despoilers replace both bolt pistols with Shrapnel Pistols?
If so, I have an idea for a probably weak but entertaining list.

>>96307281
I love the mesh under the broken shoulderpad

>>96307284
I meant Destroyers.
I'm dumb.

>>96307230
Yes, which is back to my original point. Shooting with melee units trying to charge is generally a bad idea, just as it was in 2e since you make the charge harder.

Volley fire doesn't make this better, if anything it makes it worse since you're more likely to make the charge harder/impossible.

So volleyfire, like just shooting once, is still only useful if A: The charge is all but guaranteed anyway, B: Failing to charge won't actually matter, or C: You didn't want to be in melee in the first place.

>>96306647
Wait, you still check for Stun after a cancelled Firestorm Charge? Booooo!

>>96307339
No, you don't

>>96306753
I don't like 3.0 listbuilding because it forces me to pay HQ taxes and I shall commit Tax Evasion whenever I can

>>96307360
You need line officers to command your warriors.

>>96307302
Aye I got it
>>96307284
Yes, but don't you need only a single shrapnel pistol to cause a Pinning test? Like, swap all their pistols for Volkite serpentas on everyone except one, and then swap that guy's bolt pistols for shrapnel. Like, is that legal?

>>96307377
More like
>You need a valet parking Optae to unlock your warriors' Transports
lmao

>>96307377
>centurion literally exists to command a 100 dudes
>need to spam multiple centurions for your army of 50 dudes and some tanks/dreads just cuz

>>96307387
You'd be paying 2 points for 2 pistols, but yeah, pinning only requires a single hit

>>96307399
>>96307399
>>96307399
pose more images you boring bastards

>>96307263
The rulebook has a picture of a World Eater in NuMkV, which looks like the apothecary there.
The differences between old and new:
>Nosebridge is wider then the older one
>Snout is more pronounced
>Eyes are larger
>Left shoulder has more stud
>Elbows are flat and rounded
>Unlike the apothecary, the neck/gorget tube seems to be gone
>Smaller chest tubes with bulbous tip between X-shaped tubes
>Bottom tube on the X has changed
>Minor edits to the belt
>Larger boxes for leg tubes
>Different knee shape
>More studs on lower legs

The war journal triumvirate
>Master of Descent
>Lord of Drop Pods
>Officer of Dedicated Transportation

>>96307387
Oh shit you only need a single hit to inflict the statuses?
I've been sleeping on them in my list building then.

>>96307184
>destroyers have special pistols because reasons, no no one elses uses them
Oof, if only. I'm not a /k/ person. But if there was some bullet that reacted as soon as its cartridge was detonated, you'd want the least amount of barrel possible, right? So, better it degrades an easily replaceable pistol, than a bolter good for other things idk.
But yeah I'd like destroyer bolt pistols to be special. Maybe that'd make Moritats consider taking bolt pistols

>>96307443
Mfw building a list is its own minigame

>>96307521
Do base Destroyers even take them? They don't do anything compared to Volkite or Flamers.

>>96307514
It depends. Sone statuses need a hit, others need a wound. I just haven't memorized which is which yet

>>96307533
Sorry anon, I said I *would* like their pistols were good enough to consider using over their 2x5 pts replacements. As in, right now it's not like that, but I wish it was.
I am of the belief that proper game design means the baseline is perfectly viable and options are good at different things, not just better at the same thing the baseline is. That way the basic thing is only retained when you can't afford something better.
I'm not saying I like 40k 10E, but their chainswords are relevant against power weapons because they have a different niche of attacking hordes instead of armoured targets (+1A vs AP-3)

>>96307430

So it's kind of like, Mk2 legs and torso with Mk6 shoulderpads? What kind of backpack are they using? It sort of looks similar to the Mk4.

>>96307566
I was genuinely surprised they didn't give chainswords +1 attack as rheir gimmick. Getting D2 sometimes on what is practically a CCW is dumb.

>>96309553

What's dumb is actually making them and the bayonets cost points.

>>96307430
These differences are meaningless and well within the original classic design, just upscaled. There have been similar MkV torsos in other kits.
The only "new" thing, it's the shape of the vox grille. Which seems off and not enough angry-looking, IMO. It's pretty much a copy of the apothecary helmet.

>>96304122
No longer up?
Help me Spread the Truth brother!

Also I think it is nuts the Old Daddy Kor is the only Chaplain in the book.