Thread 96770920

What genre is not well represented? What kind of activities in session just don't have a good rules set? What kind of game would excite you that you think isn't available?

In terms of western fantasy, historical, and history-inspired fantasy settings, there's relatively little early modern (KNIGHTS WITH GUNS, as the meme goes) material. It exists, but the vast majority of such fantasy/historicalish/historical RPGs and media in general break down into either:
Early modern, but there's no firearms and it claims to be medieval (the majority of fantasy goes here)
Mimics medieval Europe, which doesn't provide much player buy-in a lot of the time because unless you're a history geek a properly medieval setting feels weird and alien to modern people and not in a way that's necessarily exciting or interesting, though it can be.

>>96770976
Are you talking about 16th century but with magic? Would you rather see a hard hold to European culture of the time or would you prefer to see a more loose interpretation?
I always felt that simply adding guns to WHF would do it well.

>>96771040
>I always felt that simply adding guns to WHF would do it well.
...It already has them, just with really awkward logistics so it fails to turn into full pike-and-shot.

>>96770920 (OP)
Are you seriously doing market research on fucking 4chan?

>>96771273
I just thought it would be a topic to switch things up.

>>96770920 (OP)
Anything between 16th century and modernity.
Mecha
Xianxia

>>96771273
It does seem like a good place to go whaling...

>>96771307
>Mecha
There's several mech games. What's not working for you?

Modern-era spy/thriller with an elegant ruleset

Spycraft 2.0 exists but that system is extremely cumbersome

>>96771307
>Xianxia
Leveling is perfect for the Xianxia genre, which makes it diegetic.

>>96771307
>Xianxia
Wouldn't that just need a source book for any variant of D&D/

>>96771383
I think that the spy genre is probably the hardest to do right. Good spy stories are all about trying to not get caught while getting into places you don't belong. It's all about close calls rather than full on action. IDK how you would make a system that makes that fun rather than frustrating at the table.

>>96771467
>I think that the spy genre is probably the hardest to do right. Good spy stories are all about trying to not get caught while getting into places you don't belong
??? James Bond gets caught in every single movie

>>96770920 (OP)
Paradigm shifting iterative improvement would be the main case for me. While there's many other "progression fantasy" (sub)genres I have varying levels of interest in that would be relatively straightforwardly implemented by making unusual aspects of the rules diegetic, things like proliferating magic through cost-efficiency exploits, technology uplifts, and their antithesis in the relative stasis of a great many settings are frequently discussed, so structured rules for the matter would seem to be quite useful.

>>96771423
Not really, Xianxia has far more embedded tiering than even BECMI physically separating the books and far worse scope-creep than anything short of the nigh-infinite exploits in 3.X, with so much variation in details of advancement that wrangling it into a single XP track misses the point of all but the shallowest slop.

>>96771522
James Bond is a shit spy in the movies.

>OP picture
>OP question
You know damn well.

>>96771557
the worst. but James Bond is still the LotR of the spy genre, in that it sets up the player's expectations for how the game will go.

>>96771332
There's no DEFINITIVE mecha game. The closest we have is Heavy gear and that one is like, fuckbillion years old and it shows.

>>96771523
>Not really, Xianxia has far more embedded tiering than even BECMI physically separating the books and far worse scope-creep than anything short of the nigh-infinite exploits in 3.X, with so much variation in details of advancement that wrangling it into a single XP track misses the point of all but the shallowest slop.
Honestly, that sounds exhausting and less fun than a public 5e game.

>>96771588
Lancer
Mechwarrior
Mecha vs Kaiju
Mekton
Robotech
Mech Nior
Mech Hack
Mech Star

All of these have very recent editions.

>>96771577
What, you didn't like the Dark Crystal?

>>96771582
Still, half of the rules should be about being sneaky and if they are successful it'll be anticlimactic.

>>96771632
I've run Spycraft and other infiltration-centric campaigns and it's really not a problem in the way you're describing. Stealth is fun when the party's plan goes off without a hitch, AND when your players end up in rolling gunfights with the Connecticut state police

the problem with Spycraft is that prep was absurdly involved, both for the GM and the players

>>96771712
>the problem with Spycraft is that prep was absurdly involved, both for the GM and the players
I'd imagine that in actual play would be multiple sessions of planning and recon and one session of actual mission.

>>96771592
It's not like "cape"/Superhero games haven't come up with answers for sliding scales that work across like ten orders of magnitude, the tiering means you're introduced to things slowly and are likely to depreciate them, while the variance means you can treat almost anything as optional. But you positively cannot chuck miscellaneous bullshit into one progression track that bluntly hands you level-ups without question.

At a minimum, you need to keep the basic kinds of Qi tracked separately with some quality metric, allocated to separate buckets in each of the internal alchemy things you're progressing, then make some kind of check taking up actual in-setting time for the level up.

>>96771613
Which one of those lets me replicate UC Gundam with the numbers filed off, which one is the Super Robot Monster of the Week slugfest, and which one is BattleTech but as a TTRPG.
All of which have semi-optional gear autism, engaging outside of the cockpit mechanics, and doesn't just make a singular broad piloting skill which centralized all of the game around itself.

If you can list a game for any of the generalizations above with the requirements below and its not shit, they you have something worthwhile.

>>96772950
>UC Gundam
Mekton is probably the right candidate for this. It's a relatively crunchy game and can do Gundam style well.
>Super Robot Monster of the Week
Mecha vs. Kaiju
>BattleTech but as a TTRPG
Mechwarrior. It's the official Battletech RPG by FASA and now Catalyst.

That said, the top two systems I would recommend for a mecha game would be Traveller and Black Star. In both cases, they are more general scifi games but have support for mechs. It's something I have said for a while now that while mechs are cool, when the whole game revolves around them it limits them to the point of making every campaign having a shelf life.
Traveller, whether you choose the current Mongoose version, Classic Traveller, or a Cepheus variant, has multiple supplements to support mechs. I have also converted and used Battletech assets. In case you somehow are 1 of three TT gamers that's never heard of it, Traveller is a pretty well rounded space opera game that is easily tailored to a variety of campaign styles. It has a lot of depth and can sustain a decades long campaign. It has an official setting, the Third Imperium, but there's a good number of third party settings available. It's also easy to homebrew for as the stat block math is very easy. (I literately home brew equipment on the fly in the game I run.)
Black Star is a light weight d6 generic Star Wars game and it works great. There's a third party book for it called Mech Star that melds with it seamlessly. A little is lost in lack of granularity but if you're looking to run a fast and light game for about 200 hours, it's a great option.

I know there are some, but the glorified ghetto/GTA/modern crime area seem waaaaaaay underepresented in RPGs.
I do realize that there is at least of modicum of superimposition with CP2020 and shit like that, but I would prefer something less tactical and more street-style. And while we're at it, not grim like Blades in the Dark.

>>96770920 (OP)
>What kind of activities in session just don't have a good rules set?
I want a TTRPG where the PCs aren't allowed to adventure 24/7 but are forced to take leisure time or risk getting mental illness.

>>96776631
I was actually in a conversation a week ago with some friends about this. There's a couple of Savage Worlds modules that would most definitely fit this bill, Streets of Bedlam and Wiseguys. Given you're talking about the over-the-top style of crime, I think it's a perfect system too.
We got talking about it because we got on The Goon and they got mentioned as possible material for expanding it.

>>96776998
Isn't this more of a GM thing? Many systems already have rules for down time, it'd be more on the GM to properly implement it.

>>96770920 (OP)
>not real represented
Ahh, feels like Angelpunk is the punk that the other punks forgot. It also could be an arguement for a Noblebright setting (or at least Noblebright Heroes) where the villains vary from Demonic to just indifferent Materialist and Socialists. Having an RPG where they ask 'yeah the world is actually kind of fucked, how do you make your utopia.' and look at that unflinchingly would be neat.

I feel there hasn't been a good investigation game in years. Gumshoe is probably the last one but you could argueably say since Delta green which is one or two decades. Really argueably since CoC which means there's lots of time to make it, but its just not as popular.

I rather like the idea of an actual gonzo type game but those are only middling popular especially into the 21st century.

>>96777170
I mean something like:
>In a single 168-hour week, you must sleep for at least 96 hours and can work for up to 72 hours (e. g., six 12-hour days). If you get too little sleep or do too much work, at the end of the week you must roll against your Will score. If you fail the roll, you incur mental stress and must record −0.1 point on your character sheet. At any time, the GM may spend accumulated negative points of mental stress on a mental disadvantage.
That's just an off-the-cuff example.

>>96777300
>you must sleep for at least 96 hours
*56 hours

>>96777300
This is a key mechanic in the Bladerunner game by Freeleague.
That said, I still kind of think it's about how organized the GM is and implements proper scheduling for things like this. The idea is that this would be something is done off screen and the GM simply updates things like this.
I do this when running games. PCs need to rest or suffer exhaustion and you need to be careful where you sleep. I am a bit fastidious about it and players need to actually focus on setting up camp or finding a bed.

>>96770920 (OP)
I figure a lot of people might say something like
>A game about [highly specific time period/war/area/etc]
But I think what people are actually asking for is a detailed, comprehensive setting guide that scratches their autistic itch for knowledge about the macro and micro details of a given setting.

Like, do you really need an explicitly made Cowboy Bebop game, or do you just want to know enough about the Cowboy Bebop setting that you could run a game in it with your system of choice? Do you need a One Piece game that explicitly quantifies and ranks power levels and abilities and tells you exactly how far Luffy's dick can stretch, or do you just want a book full of maps and devil fruit ideas and a general sense for how the technology, powers, and world should work?

>>96777635
For me its both, specialized rules allow one to better embody a concept and additional worldbuilding provides more scaffolding.
Its the difference between what I think your getting at in, wanting something basic to shape into what you want Vs Something that's already fleshed out to alter as needed and left to function if working.
Building up from a base requires a lot more effort on the GM's part and so is less preferable to most people.
So 9 times out of 10 a functional One Piece System built from the ground up to emulate the concepts of the setting will be more preferable to those who want to play a One Piece game than handing someone a copy a Gurps and a lore bible, although the lore bible will be appreciated either way.

>>96777747
As an addendum the people who just want adaptations of existing rules system to an entire different type of game are mainly the crowd that only play 5e because they are to lazy to read the one rulebook let along a second one, and should not be respected on those grounds.

>>96777228
>I feel there hasn't been a good investigation game in years.
There are systems that lend themselves to investigation better than others but I think this is more of a adventure design function rather than a mechanic.
The three best published investigation modules I have seen are Murder on Arcturus Station (Classic Traveller), Thicker Than Blood (Cyberpunk 2020), and Nobles Oblige (Warhammer Fantasy 2e). To do an investigation game, it take a lot of detail prep so that you have the clues and red herrings in the right spot and that you present them in a was that teases out.
It might be worthwhile to have a guide for building mysteries.

>>96777635
>>96777747
>>96777787
I get it. settings guides are crucial for working from an existing IP. A good example of a game that did this well was the WEG Star Wars. There was almost nothing a GM needed that he couldn't get a good source book on. Cyberpunk 2020 had Night City which is in my mind the gold standard for setting guides.
I've been reading a lot of the newer published RPGs and a lot of them have just enough to tease you and then rely on the GM to do all the heavy lifting for the setting and the things in the setting. I buy a lot of random table books, NPCs, and the like to flesh out my games.
I also agree that there is no universal game engine and that trying to make a 5e based game work for a horror investigation is stupid. That said, with a little patience, I think that some systems are fairly adaptable if you actually understand the underlying mechanics.

>>96777156

>SW

Thanks but no thanks.

>>96770920 (OP)
Fishing minigames.

>>96778102
Yeah, I think an issue is that Publishers, both independent and major want those who buy their product to "use the whole buffalo" even if that means creating something that is to thin as to not expend additional resources.
Because most people like setting guides... for 25-50% of the contents in them and then ignoring the rest.
However the 25-50% they pick is variable depending on person and group depending of what resonates with that person in particular.

>>96771383
I've had good experience using Outgunned and Savage Worlds for spy shit.

>>96778253
Yeah, the golden age of dense source books was the 90s and it's all but over now.
They seem to be replaced by random table books.

>>96770920 (OP)
The only things that are "missing from TTRPGs" are the things you don't make them with, because you can make whatever you want for TTRPGs, especially fantasy games.

>>96776998
Ryuutama.

>>96770920 (OP)
Every few months I see an "Ace Combat RPG" thread pop up, with people asking what is available. On one hand, there are air combat wargames that people have added RPG layers to (and then never share their houserules where people can find them). On the other, there are RPGs that focus on WW1, or dieselpunk 1930's/40's, or Cold War aircraft and pilots.
What people seem to be craving is a game that strikes the middle ground, and does for air combat what Battle Century and Lancer did for mecha.

>>96772950
>>96774029
>BattleTech but as a TTRPG
The problem with Mechwarrior is that only 3rd edition (a.k.a. Classic BattleTech RPG) had RPG rules for the mech fights, as opposed to "play the wargame." Oh, and I guess MW: Destiny can do that, but in my opinion that game is far too rules-lite for the purpose.
>UC Gundam
Best would be Jovian Chronicles, which is, yes, quite old at this point. More modern takes are Armour Astir (example setting is fantasy, but works fine for sci-fi) and Beam Saber. Both of those lean into the personal drama between pilots, and eschew the wargame roots of Jovian Chronicles.

>>96771622
Interdimensional Travel.

Different dimensions, altered physics, strange biologies, alien cultures, and the like. a real emphasis built in to setting and system. Even a slightly closed cosmology focussed on alternate timelines would be a big step.

D&D-style inner/outer/transitory is bizarrely restrictive despite intentions, and 5th somehow got more lazy with the same restrictions. MtG seems to no longer give a fuck about worldbuilding (despite starting to branch out with Planeswalkers...and then stopping) and Planescape is incredibly shallow despite it's general premise.both are a huge letdown. Most non-WotC systems I've read either copy D&D's architecture or they're like L5R where realms exist but they're off limits 95% of the time and/or made for a very specific scenario. I'm also aware of the 9001 sci-fi games that let you build a planet on the fly, but I believe that there are fundamental differences in how planes or planets interact with story, setting, and players.

The closest I've seen to an interest and in a pseudo-roleplaying format is a handful of CYOAs where the author either named a few off the top of his head with a brief overview or a couple where you randomize (or choose) a handful of tropes and figure out how they come together as a tangible reality.

Honorable mention to DCC, who's gonzo open source approach has fostered a slew of classes, races, adventures, items, etc mentioning Isekai portal bullshit (or phlostigon disturbances) but nobody has actually tied it all together in an actual setting or story that I know of.

>inb4 soulless faggots start posting police call boxes

>>96779453
> MtG seems to no longer give a fuck about worldbuilding (despite starting to branch out with Planeswalkers
That one hurts personallt...
Its a shame because one of the best parts of MTG's worldbuilding is seeing the resonances and divergences between the various planes and how the underlying mechanics of Mana underpinning everything creates a shared context.

>>96771613
Mekton zeta (3rd ed) is 30 years old.
Robotech isn’t recent either.

Right now the most played mech rpgs are mecha hack (which is a bit too rules light imo), beam saber (which is a forged in the dark system or "storygame") and lancer (which is gay AF and doesn't represent modern mecha anime)

It would be cool to have a real 4th edition of mekton, but R.tal is busy with CPunk

>>96771613
They also suck.

>>96770920 (OP)
Steampunk.

Also there are no caveman rpgs.

>>96779737
Right? You'd think if WotC wanted to tie everything in with everything else, a Planeswalker-themed D&D campaign with classes built around creature types and a shuffling of existing spells to fit the mana spectrum would be a no-brainer. You could have planar exploration feature front and center, maybe bring in some guys who worked on Planeshift or whatever that set was with the big location cards, and have them expand on the worlds they've already started. A few rules for converting statblocks and you're done.

A better idea would be to use all these things in an altogether new game, but I don't have that level of faith in coastal fagtards to put in the work.

>>96780223
Apparently there was tentative planes to make a MTG TTRPG but then Wizards bought D&D and the rest si history.

>>96771588
Second Edition of HG rpg is still one of the better systems out there. It's not even that heavy on crunch.

>>96770920 (OP)
Anything involving pre-colonial America, or places like Africa and Oceania

>>96779314
>Every few months I see an "Ace Combat RPG" thread pop up, with people asking what is available. On one hand, there are air combat wargames that people have added RPG layers to (and then never share their houserules where people can find them). On the other, there are RPGs that focus on WW1, or dieselpunk 1930's/40's, or Cold War aircraft and pilots.
>What people seem to be craving is a game that strikes the middle ground, and does for air combat what Battle Century and Lancer did for mecha.
I have an on again off again project based on fighter pilot mercenaries in the interwar period. (1920s-30s) I take inspiration from High Road to China, Porco Rosso, and Tail Spin. I may just have to get off my ass and finish it

>>96779453
>Interdimensional Travel.
There are two games that do this and I think they are both solid examples of why we don't have more; Rifts and Through the Breach.
Rifts is probably the most fleshed out of all and it has 14 dimension books. It also has 34 world books, and over a dozen other source books covering factions, equipment, history, and other miscellany. It was a massive project that took decades and resulted in a mediocre game. (There's some cool stuff but it's hit and miss.)
I think the biggest miss with 5e is that they chose to do these giant 200+ page adventure books rather than doing source books on some of the Planes and other locations.

>>96780095
>Also there are no caveman rpgs.

It's been talked about in this thread already, but stuff like superheroes and mecha. The systems for them are always overly complicated or really obsessed with a specific setting/plot. I can't think of a single system for either that offers intelligent, intuitive rules without the baggage of the creator's failed novel/comic tacked on.

>>96771613
As much as I love Mechwarrior/Battletech, the RPG literally tells you to go play the wargame if you want to use mechs.

The rest of those games are ancient, badly written, or just plain dogshit.

>>96781592
Of all the published Super Hero games, my biggest issue is how mechanically complicated they are. If any genre needs a "rules lite" system, it's caped crusaders.

>>96770920 (OP)
I dont think we have a truly fantastic hexcrawling ruleset yet or dungeon crawling ruleset. Procedural generation is usually very primitive when it could be much more advanced

There also isn't a very good ruleset for one v one gamified character duels in TTRPGs. Players have been dueling each other in dnd since before worlo came out and the system is never balanced around that. Balance is not always a good thing but I think a great way to generate a much deeper TTTrpg combat system could be starting with making a one v one fight as compelling as a normal 5v5 skirmish and then expanding outward from there.

>>96779453
>but I believe that there are fundamental differences in how planes or planets interact with story, setting, and players.
There really ain't, nor are the different planes fundamentally all that different from just different places in the same plane within a fantasy setting.
And that's likely a large part of why you don't see much interdimensional travel.

>>96781638
Same. It feels like the designers have a strong aversion to any kind of abstraction, and I'm really not sure why that's the case. I guess there's some desire to be able to have, in full mechanical terms, every single last nuance of a given power represented, or some delusion that if they make sure there's specific numbers for everything it'll somehow ensure balance (which is laughable).

>>96780095
>>96781577
Wurm is good, but there's also
>Totem
>Cavemaster
>Legend: Land of Ice and Stone
>GURPS Ice Age
>Paleomythic
>Ganakagok

>>96781592
Pick up OVA. It's meant to be an anime system, but you can reflavor it as a very simple, very intuitive supers game.

I just saw a full on Heavy Gear conversion to WEG D6 system. This is the system they used for Star Wars, one of the greatest RPGs ever.
https://banzaidyne.wordpress.com/heavy-gear-d6-bravo/

>>96780348
So they've sat on their fucking hands for over 20 years? That makes sense.

Dungeoneering in a wheelchair? Greenlit. Ai-generated Ninja Turtles? Greenlit.

Priorities, Anon. Priorities.

>>96781843
>No Og
Ngmi fr fr

>>96779314
>>96771307
>>96771588
>>96779761
>>96781616
Hypothetically, what would you want in a Mecha RPG? Let's make the assumption that a core mechanics set is about a 5 out of 10 in complexity and you would need a well rounded game experience out of the cockpit. What else would you want?

>>96780348
How would you make a MTG ttrpg. Would you take a Dnd Variation and simply throw out the magic system and try to port in as much MTG as you could or something more abstract. I have to admit that doing something like 'color affinities are stats' where your strength is going to be your Green or Red affinity, Wisdom your White or Blue Affinity, Dex your Red or Black etc. Have your perferred colourwheel dicate the colour combos you want (whether that's traditional ones, the tricolors, the new wheel, etc).

Players are a set of 'nu-nu' Planeswalkers after the previous sets have all fucked off for some reason. Planeswalking for the new walkers is fairly limited (as is mana, I would almost make it so that you can only get mana from one 'land' once to emphasize that there is a reason why walkers keep walking). Magic would consist of spells learned from the land itself (with a fair emphasis on cycles and keywords, all of the colours would get their one mana common splash, their two mana utility, their three mana beater and so on but each would work differently lightning bolt vs counterspell vs I don't know something 3 mana and iconic. Most of the tension/adversarialism would be the worldly powers (wizards, cities, etc) begging the newwalkers for help and bribing what they can. A big portion of play would be the fact that sticking around in an area lets you build it up (aka extract more mana from it, gain more allies ,etc) but also weakens you (as you can't just run off and get much more mana ,etc) until another walker decides to kick over your sandcastle. You can develop a metroplosis with two or more walkers (and basically monster of the week going into other dimensions to gather mana, allies, etc) but that stretches your defense further and lets out more knowledge about your Silver City.

This actually sounds a bit more like Amber then I realized.

>>96770920 (OP)
>What genre is not well represented?
You don't play games. Stop doing shitty threads to allow dumb astroturfing and self-promo, faggot.

>>96783805
>Stop doing shitty threads
How is this a shitty thread when these are on the board?
>>96705385
>>96781603
>>96735244
>>96763764
>>96782582

>>96783796
I think a big part of representing a walker in MtG as a PC is that even the most hands on Walkers have creature summons made of Aether or creations made from on site resources, as even Chandra has elementals and Jace illusions.

Obviously you have the iconic creature types a PC can have ass their race, but the idea of each player having a signature kind of creature they engage with based upon their mana and being able to increase one roster of summonable creatures by finding them across the multiverse is cool.
It also helps that nu-walker summoning is one of the more defined concepts in that there are two tiers, a baseline conceptual version of creatures representing generic architypes one has seen which can be mass produced due to the simplistic aether signature, and the more unique ones which are basically snapshots of individuals an various points in their life along with the unique capabilities they have at that point serving as puppets, which due to the more complex aether signatures means a walker can only keep one variant active at a time.

So like the concept of a Soldier as just a Soldier with no personal aspects is a generic and therefore easily made entity, same with the concept of a Knight, or even a Knight of a Specialized Order in aggerate can be generic , meanwhile Thalia as she was during "Thalia Guardian of Thraben" is such a unique construct that you can't just make another "Thalia Guardian of Thraben" out of Aether.

I feel like the age of exploration and its great expeditions doesn't have a lot of games. Which is weird because it's kind of tangential to a lot of popular rpg themes, and it's well covered by movies, computer games and books. You can run it in games like whfrpg or d&d, but it doesn't quite fit. And there are pirate games, but that's a whole different theme really, same with western. The traits I'm looking for is that the players are a part of an expedition that's well equipped, but isolated (by potentially months of travel), part of a group, but don't have their family there, in a place where the societal structure of their home country is far away, but maybe the captain is the local authority, and there's still a sense of identity that's reinforced by the fact that the people they meet will be very "other" etc. You can do a lot of classic tropes like exploring lost temples, searching for hidden treasures, fighting jungle beasts, etc, but crucially not with a band of d&d hobos.
Considering how afraid a lot of publisher seem to be about colonial era themes it's unlikely that such games will ever become mainstream, but I think it's kind of weird that the theme wasn't explored more before. In a fantasy world you can sidestep or subvert some of those themes.

>>96784310
If any sort of age of exploration themed games are going to get made, we as a culture need to get over out hangups about the imperialistic past.

>>96781479
Throw in some Crimson Skies and I'll swear my life to your service via Klingon blood ritual. I'll also mention the name Heavy Gear for posterity.

>>96781558
>Rifts
I've messed with it, and I'm well aware of how mediocre it is. Really takes a good group, and mine was fun but ultimately fell apart. Maybe I'll take another dip since I wasn't aware that actual dimension hopping was on the menu (our GM kinda sold the portals as the killbots from Gamma World; somewhere fun to TPK once we're high level).

>Through the Breach
I'll check it out, thanks.

>5e
It really is a massively cynical move, isn't it? Paizo for all their faults releases APs in such a way that you can drop the whole investment midway if your group fizzles out, and there's enough content in the Players Guide that you can scrap the whole campaign and flesh the region out however you like. The fact that WotC has to stuff a module like a turducken in a Turkish prison to sell fifty copies to impulsive FOMO buyers is unreal. Hasbro execs ought to send Pinkertons into the office to beat the devs with copies of Tasha's Encyclopedia Cauldrannica.

As an aside, you should check out DCC 1e when you have the time. Like I said above, much of the fan community has put in yeoman's work in certain ideas and it really is a fun 3.5 hack because of it. If you have a regular "serious" game, the gonzo Hanna Barbera shit makes for a great palate cleanser. No feats, no skills, spells can (read: WILL) blow up in your face, and the pig farmer can grow up to become Conan of Aquilonia if done right.

>>96770920 (OP)
>Nu-Rifts
I would like a game that makes Heavy Metal 1981 movie sane to play and to GM.
>Nu-DnD
D20 fantasy with horizontal character progression, no hp bloat, no dex godstat, armor as damage reduction and a spellbook that can make other settings than forgotten gayelms work.
>Pride, prejudice and zombies
Victorian era with good duel and social interaction rules. Urban castle construction with village management and politics rules/oracles would be nice also.

>>96781479
>Lancer did for mecha
Make it gay and lame?

>>96783765

School sheaningans, conspiracies, underage pilots, fucked up commanders, and maybe a SDAT for good measure.

Ok, perhaps not necessarily that tied to a single series, but you get the point.

What I certainly wouldn't want is a wargame. Not because they are bad, but because mecha anime are never, ever, about the range of your missiles in feet.

>>96781718
>There really ain't, nor are the different planes fundamentally all that different from just different places in the same plane within a fantasy setting.
And that's likely a large part of why you don't see much interdimensional travel.
Maybe I didn't elaborate. The major difference is the "nautical theme."

Seafaring dynamics are deeply rooted in Western culture and highly developed foreign cultures and are fundamentally tied to our understanding and extrapolation of space travel. Take any number of sci-fi settings and games; Star Trek, the Expanse, Star Wars, Traveller, Star Citizen, 40k, Lost in Space, Prospect, or (if HRT and krokodil arent ruining your life fast enough) Starfinder. Marine terminology and nautical dynamics permeate the setting on most every level. Engines being blown out is synonymous with being adrift. The uneducated but talented guy is just as comfortable as an apprentice carpenter as he is a mechanical assistant. Entering British Waters may as well be entering Federation Space. You can run the same pirate character in a sci-fi game one week and a fantasy game the next and have massive amounts of overlap.

Conversely, planar travel doesn't have these dynamics. Your characters need some macguffin to get around: inherent powers, arcane processes, complex devices, places of convergence and the means to find them. It necessitates some degree of specialism if not outright conceptual novelty to work. There's no village planeswalker, nor a slightly larger village down the way well known for them. There's likely no scrapyard mechanic who opens realmgates "as a hobby," either. Unless you're running a game with a very SG-1 military style, there's no real "standard approach" to new dimensions; it's not likely to become some profession and drag with it professional apathy.

There's a reason Sigil is filled with adventurers, angels, demons, etc, and other games' hub locations are filled with normal people.

>>96774029
Which mongoose 2e supplements do I need to check out for mech rules?

>>96783796
>>96784279
Friendly reminder that /tg/ made one or two swings at an MtG TTRPG. Last I checked you can find them on 1d4chan or suptg. The author Tokhaar Gol also made a fairly detailed (autistic) MtG CYOA that could serve as the backbone of a more comprehensive RPG with a bit of work.

>>96784985
>>96783796
>>96784279
>HURRR WHY DONT I JUST POST THEM ME
>DURRR I DUNNO ME IT TOOK TWO SECONDS

https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Magic:_the_Gathering_RPG
https://imgchest.com/p/m9yx6nppyqn

>>96784966
These are the MgT 2e Mech books. I would also recommend the Vehicle Handbook.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/485714/heavy-metal-mechs-for-travellerhttps://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/127805/2300ad-hard-suits-combat-walkers-and-battlesuits
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/257416/edge-of-space-walkers
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/368461/walkers
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/415247/walker-vehicles-volume-2
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/412140/biotech-vehicles
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/204920/vehicle-handbook

>>96784785
>I would like a game that makes Heavy Metal 1981 movie sane to play and to GM.
>>Nu-DnD
I feel this one.
The funny thing is, I think the best game for this would be using OSE with some of the varied new stuff that's come out in the past few years. Vaults of Varn, The Painted Wasteland, Yoon Suin, Other Dust, Cha'alt, and other. There is a lot of not quite compatible games that's easy to quickly tweak and if works too. Things like Target Terror Gemini and Neon Lords Of the Toxic Wasteland. I know I'm forgetting some but this will mash-up to a Heavy Metal vibe.

>>96776631
You're right. Even CP2020 only somewhat hits the GTA 2 vibe. CP2077 almost feels like a GTA gamen but no tabletop really fits the GTA style. Maybe real crime is just too much for publishers.
Hell, there's even SLA Industries, which is the tabletop version of Manhunt.

>>96785596
It's been tried a few times over the years. There was a mobster game by TSR back in the day. There's Miami 86 out now but I know very little about it. I seem to recall a GTA inspired game and seeing some of the classes as independent documents. I think we really haven't had an earnest effort to make a game focused on modern crime life.

>>96785712
I know? But those are one-off throwaway rpgs. Not franchises.
Maybe real crime games where you get to pimp your rides and upkeep half a dozen of baby mamas sounds good in theory, but I doubt most people would want to play games about real life problems such as crime and degeneracy that keep getting worse in all countries.

>>96785734
I think there's a market if someone wants to put one together. Given the number of crime shows I can think of off the top of my head, it's something that captivates. Sopranos, Sons of Anarchy, The Shield, Ozarks, etc. I think that you'd have to include a section for crime fighter PCs too for things like Justified and The Wire.

>>96785021
I understand you have trouble reading social cues but sometimes the point of a question is to ponder the question and not to rehash someone elses attempt.

>>96784279
Yeah, I would be aiming to do something different. All 'Summons' would be allies, outside of a handful of obviously bullshit creature types (morphs and illusions im looking at you). in the TTRPG if you want to cast lanowar elves you have to go to the lanowar forests where you gather a green mana and make nice with the elves. The whole multiverse thing would replace 'individuals at various points or aetheric signatures with variations). You could always find some Heaven willing to lend you angels even if you have to fuck off to another dimension to do it.

The cost would be resetting your mana presumably, each dimension would be mostly its own contained thing, wandering off board is a tactic admission of defeat in most cases. There will be a few 'Keystone' or important dimensions were people actually gather sort of like active servers with infinite out there inactive ones you can raid or try to build up into a force. Sort of the way that Yawggy fucked off to Phyrexia.

>>96785903
I can't help but think that a MtG RPG would be a variant of Pokemon where players summon creatures to fight for them and give them buffs.

>>96785021
Thanks ill check those out.

>>96785903
Then you might be better served by using old-walker pre-revision summon lore, wherein the creatures summoned are the literal creatures being plucked across the multiverse to help you out in a fight.

>>96785836
Salvage is the heart of homebrew.

>>96785903
That's a neat idea, and I think that >>96785977 and >>96786423 bring up salient points about the nature of summoning. Maybe going to the Llanowar Forests gets you the Llanowar Elves themselves, potentially access to tribal abilities or mana discounts. But the same Green 'Walker could throw down a generic 1/1 Elf in a pinch. In addition, the same PW might travel to Mirroring and their generic Elf might become mechanized or they could have some random color splash on Ravnica, while the Llanowar Elves are more resistant to planar warp due to how unique they are, or some connection or investiture on Dominaria specifically.

Permanent, one-time mana tapping was mentioned above. Maybe the characters could gain mana slots as or with experience, that they can call upon as a reserve, but sacrificing one or more slots might allow them to permanently add more spells to their repertoire. Youd have to decide if you want more options or the assurance of casting the ones you have, and might be "cut off" from casting certain spells until you've leveled or brought the fight back to your element.

Permanently expending mana might also damage the land in some way; stripping it dry, destabilizing the general flow of magic, blocking the color it just lost, or changing it into something else. OTOH, giving up some portion of your power might also be the kind of thing to win over the Llanowar Elves.

>>96786622
The connection between mana and lands is interesting because scope and scale are contrasted with use.
Across the entirety of the lore Old Walkers and New, their biggest strength was their power to bond with so many different lands and obtain a surplus of mana
One creates a mana bond on the most primal level by drawing upon ones connection to the land via memories of being upon said land (which ties into the concept of the deck as mind). Most people who use magic are attuned to one or two lands generally the one they grew up in and the land they live in currently, at best your going to get a well traveled wizard of renown having three to four to draw upon. However most of their spells don't drain an entire land of its mana all at once allowing for more sustainable practices, Walkers typically use a lot more mana to greater effect which requires time for the land to replenish itself afterwards, which feeds into the quest for seeking out more land to attune oneself to.
Especially since lands can be damaged by overuse or other environmental issues
Take pic rel for example, the land of Dominaria at the time was so damaged that while these pool retained their inherent Blue and White nature you needed to put mana back into them to get and distinct mana from them.

>>96784459
You're right, which is why I think it's unlikely today. But I still wonder why it wasn't covered more 30 years ago, when no one batted an eye on pic related.

>>96771397
>>96771307

So a few years ago I tried making a xianxia rpg just for my friends and I to try out. In general the idea was that players wouldn't be the xianxia protagonist (so no cheat levelling, no systems, no dimensional spaces etc) but would be the normal sect disciples in a normal sect in the centuries in between main characters.

Where I fell down was here:
>>96771523
>Not really, Xianxia has far more embedded tiering than even BECMI physically separating the books and far worse scope-creep than anything short of the nigh-infinite exploits in 3.X, with so much variation in details of advancement that wrangling it into a single XP track misses the point of all but the shallowest slop

I managed to get a fairly ok 'levelling' system where players could spend experience on raising their cultivation level or on getting new kungfu attacks, spells, etc. Complete with failure chances and heavenly tribulations.

Everything sort of fell apart at the higher levels both in trying to power creep the kung-fu correctly and in providing interesting variations in advancement (in the style of xianxia) without:
a) providing too much
b) running out of good ideas.

Also I'm retarded and can't math so good so the whole thing was sort of unworkable balance wise.

Ended up abandoning the project.

>>96785058
Thanks

>>96787569
The vehicle rules don't really care what kind of vehicle it is in Traveller. It's all about size and speed. Back when I was a kid playing MegaTraveller, our GM just used normal stat blocks for other vehicles and created rules for arms and we didn't know for years.
That said, I might to a ground up Cepheus Engine build around mecha if I could find a good artist to work with.

The game I always wanted was a full on Mad Max game.

>>96787038
Do you think that would translate well mechanically? Or do I have my thinking in reverse? Should forming a connection with a mana type add it to your memory and then it's luck of the draw from then on while you adventure?

I think this is a slight bottleneck on character development, as you'd be slightly forced to hang out near loci of your preferred colors, and most any party would have multiple colors represented. How easy should it be to take useable mana with you as you travel or permanently add it to your mind/soul?

As an aside, I think if you're forming a connection with a plane to add spells to your repertoire, I think they should be represented with ACTUAL cards from the plane-relevant set. I just think it could be cool.

>>96785596

To be fair you can't probably really get a GTA tabletop game anyway, because that shit is very, very atmospheric. Unironically close to half of the charm is doing just whatever and basking in a "real" city. Hell, if you ask it would be very hard to even have it as a movie or series.

That being said, GTA demonstrates to me that the low key gangster/mobster with a classic from zero to hero story works and people like it. And from SA there is a whole "party" idea of sorts (yes, I realize in most cases you just use your guy, but you get my drift, CJ in particular works with his friends/associates).


Not sure if you could mix it with more serious things like the ones >>96785803 mentions.

>>96792776

Second edition Apocalypse World?

>>96793137
>Second edition Apocalypse World?
That system sucks. Particularly for what I would really like.
Car chase rules would have to be central. A system for brawling and fist fights would be great too.

>>96793009
Its a matter that some Walkers from bonds with the land more easily than others, Nissa for instance due to her connection with nature can almost instantly bond with lands, but walkers in general are naturally more talented at creating mana bonds than normal people and they reach out to these bonds across the multiverse.
As for the randomness the way in works in MtG proper is that your deck is your mind and you hand is the immediate things that come to mind. Its kinda like if someone pulled a gun on you in that you would imedatly have a set of things rush through your head as fight or flight kicks in, for walkers that fight or flight takes the for of what in MtG proper is your starting hand, and drawing cards is desperately trying to recall meaningful information and the means to make it so.
As for being forced to hang out it can be a downtime mechanic, most walkers adventures take place at the very least months between each other and they typically have some form of experience by the time we meet them anyway.so unless your going full Origins with it saying that a player

The true problem with TTRPGs is that there are both far too many of them and they are all far too hard to discover, but also, even if you know where to look and how to look for them, the signal-to-noise ratio is horrendous.

Like say you want a mech RPG that isn't Lancer. You go looking on itchio and you're going to find a bunch of obnoxious, faggy solo journaling games about toxic yuri pilots having sex with their mechs, and also the "game" itself is just flipping cards and then writing about the mech sex, based on the somehow acclaimed solo journaling toxic yuri system that is beloved by a large number of itchio pseudo-designers, so now there's dozens of these fucking things clogging up the results of any search, because they do a weekly game jam, somehow.

There are sites like RPG geek, but they do such a terrible job actually cataloging games that you're not going to have a much better time finding anything there, and even if you do, the actual information on the game will be sparse, and there will be no reviews, no website, nothing. Also the game will be out of print or otherwise vanished from the internet because the creator crashed out 3 months ago and actually the game was never finished beyond a rough draft PDF.

I'd wager that if a hyperspecific niche system doesn't already exist, there's something else out there that is actually close enough or generic enough or homebrew-able enough to cover your needs, but the true problem is finding those systems and not falling into the trap of trying to make a whole system from scratch, with bespoke, unique mechanics, or even worse, being the kind of retard who thinks they can make D&D work as the basis for their hyper niche game idea.

>>96797351
There's a lot of "product" out there but the vast majority of what I look at is just slop. One Page Rules movement has "creators" scribbling down one idea and throwing on the market for $5. Many of the itch.io games are so thin and so poorly designed that I doubt that there was even a preliminary play test. Now we have AI dumps with things like FAST and LightPress dumping hundreds of titles a week with no substance.
I recently went through looking at cyberpunk games and maybe 30 out of 150 of them were actually games. Even then, a lot of it was low quality. The most egregious was Altered Carbon by Renegade Studios; the rules are just broken and they want premium money for the book.

>>96797351
>>96797799
Lazers and Feelings has been a disaster for TTRPG ruleset development.

>>96794155
>some Walkers from bonds with the land more easily than others, Nissa ... can almost instantly bond with lands
That sounds like a) Walkers should either have an attribute determining their ability to bond, or have it directly tied to experience and/or mana identity. eg, Nissa might bond more easily than most because she's mostly maintained a mono-G affinity, and her ability to bond faster than othe rGreen Walkers might be a more unique ability. And b) Walkers should have an inherent ability to sense their CI, not unlike the Sense Element ability from L5R (obviously working over much larger distances).

>randomness the way in works in MtG ... deck is your mind and you hand is the immediate things that come to mind ... if someone pulled a gun on you in that you would imedatly have a set of things rush through your head ... fight or flight
Right, I understood that. What I was getting at (to borrow your analogy) is when fight-or-flight kicks in, you'll not only fall back on what you know, but what you know will be flavored if not changed by your experiences. Starting PCs who've only been on Dominaria might have their Libraries represented by a core set like M10, a very straightforward, basic set. After a quest involving Spirits takes them to Kamigawa, then Grixis on Alara, then Ravnica, they might have expanded their Libraries based on those specific sets. We're Nissa a PC, she might have bonded with Orochi, had a bad time on Grixis, and had to bond with the Selesnya in the final act due to CI and to help her "straighten out."

>hang out it can be a downtime mechanic ... adventures take ... months between... some form of experience by the time we meet them anyway.
A downtime mechanic can work. It might even be mandatory considering the scale e of the game. And PCs being less powerful than named PWs isn't an issue. The PCs are getting there.

>so unless your going full Origins with it saying that a player
Yeah, fuck character limits, lol

>>96797351
>you want a mech RPG that isn't Lancer
>toxic yuri pilots having sex with their mechs
It's like he wants steak, but he's afraid of grill marks.

I'm afraid of what you'll say if I suggest AdEva.

>>96798060
I'd argue that the whole "one page RPG" gimmick gave rise to so many of these so-lite-it's-not-even-really-a-game-anymore RPGs that faggots keep making to play with no one.

>>96797351
>or even worse, being the kind of retard who thinks they can make D&D work as the basis for their hyper niche game idea.
The structures cover a lot more cases than you'd likely be comfortable with, since a LOT of stories have crazy-broad scaling in buckets separated for rarely-explained reasons.

>>96799845
I believe it could be used to stress-test ground covered by core resolution mechanics before fine-tuning with content bulk, and when taken seriously likely serves as reasonable practice with settling for concise writing instead of spiraling off into conditionals. Might also be fun to try designing a roster of them in a complementary fashion for a rulebook where every page is a distinct subsystem.

>>96800058
>I believe it could be used to stress-test ground covered by core resolution mechanics before fine-tuning with content bulk, and when taken seriously likely serves as reasonable practice with settling for concise writing instead of spiraling off into conditionals. Might also be fun to try designing a roster of them in a complementary fashion for a rulebook where every page is a distinct subsystem.
I have two issues with this. First, most of these highly repetitive, using one of half a dozen recycled mechanics and not something novel to be discovered and explore. Second, almost no OPR gives you enough to actually give differentiation between PCs' chances of success nor a way to scale the difficulty of one challenge from another.
From this perspective, the entire mechanic becomes useless making the game less valuable than the hard drive space it takes up.

>>96800058
>The structures cover a lot more cases than you'd likely be comfortable with, since a LOT of stories have crazy-broad scaling in buckets separated for rarely-explained reasons.
d20+stat mod vs Target Number/DC does, but classes and feats and spells and combat treadmill shit does not. It's like the age old problem of people trying to stat superheroes in D&D and trying to claim that Batman is a combo fighter/rogue/ranger/ninja/paladin with a few divine levels and so on.

Which is why we have Mutants and Masterminds, which throws 90% of the core D&Disms out, and doesn't attempt to be anything like D&D while still using basic d20 system mechanics at its core. It's understandable to a D&D player, but it is not using the D&D framework and sacred cows.

>>96799473

I'm honestly baffled as to why people approach mecha as a genre that should be war-gamey, considering the actual anime behind it.

Sure it has weapons, you could theoretically run a crunchy simulation of those. But there are weapons in tragedies and sword and sandals movies as well.

>>96800763
The reason is that mecha, especially /m/ types have just as much if not more so an obsession with the technical side of the mechs as they do with the actual series characters and plots, and that gearhead autistic mindset also resonates heavily with military nerds.
There is a reason every guy who makes mecha without watch any mech beforehand says "this show is about the characters not the mechs" and its because the mecha community on averaged cares more about the mechs than the characters even if the media is about said characters.

Fucks sake.

>>96800763
>>96801163
The two most popular mecha anime to set the dramatic, adult-oriented genre standard are Mobile Suit Gundam and SDF Macross. Before then, the genre was almost exclusively shounen: power of friendship, transforming robots, fighting aliens, the good guys always win in the end, etc, etc. Gundam especially pioneered the adult mecha series as a gritty war drama, depicting the loss, anguish, cruelty, brotherhood, stress, and fear of soldiers. It showed dramatic characterization in addition to the mecha themselves acting as a sort of second, sidereal cast and many times the characters' development is directly broadcast through changes to the mech. To ignore or downplay the mecha themselves is to say that you want a game with wizards, but magic should be "over there."

The reason mecha resonates with military and gearheads is because one of the key inspirations for type and role development, especially in Gundam, was the rapid development of combat vehicles throughout WW2. Granted, Bandai almost canned MSG until Tomino agreed to have new mobile suits almost every week, to sell model kits. The teams response was to have lines of in-universe development between units. The GM leads to the GM-II, the Jegan, the RGM. The Zaku II leads to the Zaku II, Hizack, the Zaku III, etc. As they fill both roles, you have much of the design influence of tank development as much as you do fighter aircraft.

A mecha character is an ace pilot...his mech is his life, his career, his best friend, his greatest challenge, and the best configuration of available combat technology he can get his hands on. That NEEDS to be represented or your game will fall flat.

>>96800763
>>96801163
>>96801814
I should add that it's exceedingly rare for a TTRPG to scratch the mecha itch for this exact reason. Practically anyone can toss "big robot combat" into an existing Sci Fi game. Fucking shitty ass d20 Modern did it, and even revisited the idea multiple times after first print. The hard part is pacing and planning enemy development believably for a narrative game.

Look at Europe. Russia makes massive initial gains with mothballed equipment. Ukraine responds with newer equipment, but in limited number. Russia holds ground in the East, brings in newest equipment it has. Ukraine can't get Western equipment fast enough, resorts to grenade drones. Russia holds off on newest armor, tries using drones themselves.

Two years later, every element of either side is drastically redesigned to accommodate the threat of drones. The battlefield is a constant, flowing thing. A living organism. It adapted as needs, goals, and limitations changed.

Most mecha TTRPG will introduce one or two units in a size category, lifted from one show or another and that's it. That usually all the print space they have. or it's something like Lancer, which is very cool looking but incredibly disjointed.

A proper mecha game should take the actions of the PCs and incorporate counters to them in real time. They got a laser cannon that can melt a squad in one beam? The enemy brings an I-field generator negates it. Maybe not every time, maybe only one per squad, or it redirects the energy to cause some splash, shorts out after a couple hits, but it gets better. The party needs to know that the enemy want to live as much as they do, they're not going to fuck around.

>>96800763
Because a lot of mecha series, and Gundam in particular, is about war. Teen drama plays into it, but the two are often used complimentary, instead of baiting in audiences with giant robots, only to give them endless teen drama and sex, which almost never actually happens.

Tumblrfags went and convinced themselves that every mecha series is just thinly veiled queer sexual tension, when it reality, there's no veil at all, and sexual tension is a death flag.

>>96802006
>A proper mecha game should take the actions of the PCs and incorporate counters to them in real time
I hope you realize how utterly ridiculous that is on a systemic level for PnP RPGs. You don't need a game for that, you need a living GM that will decide that yes, tech has progress and you're now getting fucked by FPVs, bozo.

>>96770920 (OP)
I think a lot of ttrpgs are afraid to just let players do stuff without retarded gimmicks or penalties getting in the way, and in some cases have genuinely really backwards design. This is especially apparent with combat, because video games already managed to make tactical or even just bog standard 4 niggas in a line rpg combat both fun and varied for decades now, even if they used ttrpgs as inspiration initially.

When it comes to genre, I think games where you play as straight up gods are actually pretty rare. Right now your options from what I can tell are:

-Godbound(Demigod OSRish)
-Scion(1e is broken and 2e is storypath, which sucks ass for several reasons)
-Nobilis(incredibly weird and non-conventional)
-Armagueddon(basically like a supers game if you play an Incarnation, who's more or less the weaker god-kids of pagan gods)
-Playing God(Extremely high scale and more board game-ish)
-Part-Time Gods(Very weak street tier godlings with some superpowers who need work-life balance)

Somehow though, those just don't really scratch that itch I feel, dunno if other anons really feel the same

>>96770920 (OP)
>what's missing in TTRPGs

Good players and DMs

>>96802599
No, it's not. What I was getting at in the paragraph was that the PCs get some new toy and use the hell out of it. Why would enemy pilots just sit there? They're going to use everything they can think of IN combat and the pressures of the PCs will drive innovation OUT of combat.

Take the example I gave above: in a mecha anime, the enemy shield generator would pop up shortly after the protagonist gets a good beam weapon. That's an OUT of combat, real-time counter as they made this thing after running into the beam cannon too many times.

Then let's say the field generator soaks up a couple hits before losing power. If they're using it to gain ground, the suit holding it could throw the device at the protagonist as another shoots it, blowing up with what power it still had. That's an IN combat, real-time counter.

"These orcs are better equipped" doesn't really cut it. A proper mecha game needs that real, informed action and advancement. If the party invests in improved mobility, they'll see enemies closing ranks in the immediate and more homing and AoE in the long run. If the party goes uparmor, they'll see concentrated fire and hit-and-run in the immediate and AP or precision arty in the long run.

Thats what I mean. But that also has to apply to mech design. It can't be
>big one
>medium one
>fast one
and that's it they need different reasons to have designed them in the first place.
>Medium
>Medium, mk II
>Medium, mk IIB - Heavy Variant
>Heavy, mk I - Field Custom
>Fast, mk Ia - Prototype

>>96803284
You don't get it. It's a funny white room exercise, but when applied to real world game design it falls apart hilariously quickly. "Out of combat real time counter" is codeword for "GM thought this up to keep us on our toes". No game in the world can replace human adaptation mechanically and it will never need to. What you're describing is just a head-ass approach to a problem that doesn't need solving.

>>96801814
>The reason mecha resonates with military and gearheads
I'm both of these and I don't care about mecha cause I'm autistic about the square-cube law and how billion-dollar weapons can be rendered useless by a $1K EMP.

Even if we accept the idea that mechs are about combat and warfare, we still need an RPG that is much broader than that. If your entire game play loop is drink at the O Club and then smash things with the stompy robot, it get repetitive and boring. (That would be real war but not a great game.)
Instead, a well rounded game would allow for social encounters with meaning, field encounters that aren't combat, some level of exploration and discovery, and a way to have the PC make meaningful choices. Warfare is just part of diplomacy and politics so you need to open those up to play as well.
I think if you successfully built a complete system like this then it would do a teen angst story too without needing modification

>>96783765
It depends on the specific genre being attempted. In either case, I think it's easy enough to just model the robots and what not in much the same way you would Characters or NPCs or some such. Aside from maybe a couple unique stats, there's not really any reason to add an entirely new subsystem for them. You can even keep the numbers the same, and just take a note from a few other systems where you have different scales for damage/movement for the rare instances where Mechs/Vehicles have to interact with people on-foot.

For "real robots" specifically, I think there's a little more precedent for complexity in customization, and I'm okay with the numbers being a little more dialed in there. That being said, I think it should again just be akin to getting gear/feats/whatever for a character, maybe with some kind of weight/energy system to keep it in check. I also think having sectional damage, even if highly abstracted, is desirable.

>>96806439
When you scrape off a lot of the fluff and emotional interpretation of mecha, they are just vehicles. If you have a good game with a robust vehicle rules then it's just a matter of adding tweaks for those vehicles that have feet instead of wheels.

>>96801163

Yeah, I guess so.

>>96802565

I mean, Apocalypse Now is about war, but it's hardly about weapons' range and things like that, right?
Now, I'm not even sure if there is more "gearhead" type of Hollywood war movies, but war can certainly make for cool wargames. I just can't see mecha anime as similar to THOSE tough, it's all about drama, hotheadness and (possibly) traumatized soldier children.

Mind you, I am not mad by any means about grognard mecha RPGs (I simply don't care, even the settings fall flat on me). If anything I'm just slightly pissed that the alternative is almost non-existant.

(no, this doesn't mean even in Eva there are not gadget for the mechs, but I think you get my point)

>>96807565
So you want a mecha setting for MAID?

>>96807581

If anything in that regard I would like a game (setting are mostly inconsequential) a là Infinite Stratos, but I would prefer something around the lines of Evangelion.

>>96800545
>classes and feats and spells and combat treadmill shit does not.
Do you have any idea how many popular stories are readily described by tiering of separate power sources applied as distinct buttons with narratives revolving around ever-escalating combat? Sure, Vancian slots and the existing class roster don't work for much even in D&D's own internal fiction, but there's still quite a lot of the structure usable VERY far from D&D assumptions.

>>96807720
>Evangelion
The worst popular anime of all time. I hate it and I hate it's fans.

>>96807895

Ok?

>>96807929
Go back and watch it. Really ask yourself if that's a gaming experience you want.
Macross, Patlabor, and Full Metal Panic are all much better sources of how to pattern an anime inspired mecha game. Good games need character development and inter character development but it needs to be done is a way that multiple paths.

>>96808007

Dude, I played Bliss Stage. So actually I kinda already played NGE.

>>96808030
This makes me sad.

>>96808054

We had a great time, actually, and we're even talking about retrying it for a longer campaign.

>>96807723
You're full of shit. You know that, right?

>>96808136
Despite my personal prejudice against NGE, I wouldn't want to take your fun away. For me, it's like watching kids bang their heads against the wall for fun though.

>>96808198

To be fair BS is not exactly like that. It's more unhinged, I'd say.

>>96808185
Do you have the slightest idea how many level-based "progression fantasy" subgenres there are?

>>96811162
"Level based" does not mean "D&D" retard.

>>96803323
Sauron's forces were fine with orcs and goblins and Uruk-hai were a waste of time? Uncle Sam was fine with random racist cops and the Sentinel Program was a waste of time? Darth Vader was fine with any 'ol stormtrooper and the 501st Legion was a waste of time? The Covenant was fine with Grunts and the Elites and Brutes were a waste of time? The Dominion was fine with trade tariffs and the Jen Hadar was a waste of time?

The enemy factions in a Mecha game need to be treated like an opposing party. they'll gain experience, upgrade equipment, adjust their thinking based on what interactions they have with the PCs. Otherwise, you run into a boring and disjointed game where advancement means there are "more orcs." I don't understand what's not being communicated here.

>>96805258
You're in a thread about TTRPGs, Eglin.

>>96770920 (OP)
Half of these complaints are long-winded schizophrenic excuses some of you conjure out of thin air in order to keep playing DnD and DnD variants and d20 systems.
There's a lack of REAL Stealth games, that much I can agree but desu it's a genre that demands a shitload of prep even in narrative games. Can't think of a way to ease that burden

>>96811417
I'm working on a ninja game. It's rooted in the historical Sengoku period and both the historical and the traditional myths surrounding shinobi no mono as well as blending in folklore of spirits and youkai.
The biggest hurdle is coming up with a way that really gives the feel of the stealth mission without making every session a 40 hour prep for the GM. I would love to have a pencil and paper experience that feels like Splinter Cell or Dishonored. I've actually started other threads on the board looking for ideas and feed back as well as having spent money on books via Drivethru looking for a way to build a stealth system.

>>96811186
It is, however, a major mechanical element beyond the basic resolution. Which is the point I am actually making, that rather a lot of structure can fit a wide range of fiction just by replacing the content filling it.

>>96811417
>hates long-winded opinions
>posts on /tg/
K.

As far as stealth games, I've heard good things about SpyCraft, but it's d20. Else, you could pick up Delta Green and adjust the level of spooky to taste. With the right group, you could also pick up L5R as a party of Scorpion, Mantis, Hiruma, Ikoma or shiteating Spider. It could also be pretty fun to play "off the books" Magistrates.

Game prep is a big issue, and I think another one is the action bottleneck. It's easy to have one guy be Sam Fisher while you're playing a video game, or have roles clearly defined and executed in a movie, but in a group RPG it usually works best with the PCs in the same room which might not play to individual strengths.

>>96811505
>Game prep is a big issue, and I think another one is the action bottleneck. It's easy to have one guy be Sam Fisher while you're playing a video game, or have roles clearly defined and executed in a movie, but in a group RPG it usually works best with the PCs in the same room which might not play to individual strengths.
This is much of the problem I'm running into. The best thing I've come up with so far is the system used for Commandos.

>>96779314
>Every few months I see an "Ace Combat RPG" thread pop up, with people asking what is available. On one hand, there are air combat wargames that people have added RPG layers to (and then never share their houserules where people can find them).
That's me. I helped my GM homebrew a huge addition to the Warbirds Rpg for an Ace-Combat-With-Magic game a few years back. We were gonna compile all the homebrew rules together with a setting doc and drop it on /tg/, maybe even storytime the campaign, but we never finished the setting doc and in the meantime /tg/ culture has soured a lot which made the idea of storytiming less palatable. Gimme an hour to get off work and I'll dump the homebrew doc and the autocalc google sheet I made for it.

>>96811464
It's a point only a nogames retard could make. You're trying to make an argument for leveling and experience systems and power tiers, like some nogames, litrpg reading faggot. Whatever point you think you're making about levels is absolutely nonsense, and that's only something you'd know if you actually played games and didn't just jack off to isekai shit on royal road.

>>96811637
>You're trying to make an argument for leveling and experience systems and power tiers, like some nogames, litrpg reading faggot
In addition to litRPG directly utilizing the game mechanic in the narrative, a rather large swath of Shonen material from Japan, Xianxia from China, and more can be reasonably covered by a tailored class roster.

I don't care if you can't imagine even a single layer of abstraction from the narrative to translate diegetic power-system divisions to class or spell levels or wrap your head around a D&D-derivative not using the existing classes and Vancian slot allotment. People do in fact write stories with distinct grades of power in distinct categories that offer options from among distinct named abilities, and it's a useful way to wrangle scope and power creep into playable systems even outside that.

>>96811545
>>96779314
As promised, if anyone wants it. It's actually better put-together than I remember it being. Really should get around to finishing the setting doc, maybe do that storytime one day. Maybe /tg/ would like to hear about the time the party dropped a one-ton bomb on a demonic cartel leader. Or fought an airship that was being towed by interceptors through a hurricane. Or how the GM fucking manifested Covid into being by having an illness sweeping through not-china into the rest of the world be a major plot point like a fucking month before that hit the news. Or the asteroid.

Anyway, for anyone that cares, google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KtuNUtn6Nm9nrhJL1XAMKgEhzdBqatZeuXBh-urmE1g/edit?usp=sharing

>>96811858
140 pages, you were committed to it for sure.

>>96811798
I assumed you were just being a shithead, but you genuinely have no fucking idea what you're talking about if you think shounen manga having power levels is at all analogous to D&D class levels. Please shut the fuck up, retard.

>>96811876
Oh yeah. GM runs nothing but longform games so plenty of material got developed and refined over the few years the game ran. Felt like a waste not to at least put it together and release it to /tg/. Even considered pitching it as an expansion to the Warbirds devs but I have no idea if they're even still doing anything, last thing they released was in 2013.

>>96811907
>Even considered pitching it as an expansion to the Warbirds devs but I have no idea if they're even still doing anything, last thing they released was in 2013.
First, legally you can create an expansion for a game without permission as long as you don't violate copyright or trademark.
Second, You can reach out to the publisher as listed on the book and find out. A lot of these publishers are small time operations and will collaborate. You never know, you may as well try.

>>96811882
Given you cited trying to shoehorn existing characters into existing classes in response to a reply chain that STARTED with me noting the existing class roster works for little, it seems that you just do not understand what kind of analogies are being made.

Can you articulate why the broad-spectrum scaling of numerous Shonen settings is not appropriate to put in a level system, with distinctions between kinds of power represented by different classes? Or are you just going to keep screeching that because it doesn't fit D&D proper the class+level skeleton of progression can't be fitted to it?

>>96811969
Thanks for the encouragement anon. I may still reach out - but I really should finish the setting doc first before I do. This definitely has rekindled the spark a little.

>>96812129
You have more than enough for a proposal here. If they offer up some kind of a deal then you can decide if further work is warranted. Either way, good luck.

>>96811529
I'm not familiar with Commandos (If it's anything like Phoenix Command, I'll pray for your soul). I'm not sure what stage of campaign prep you're at, so I'm not sure if you want to branch out for material. Gurps has a book on Japan, as does Rifts for more fantastical elements.

You could also check out the vidya Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun for some inspiration. You build up a team of specialists and set them to take out specific challenges so that your main infiltrator can get in close. It's not super dense, but it's kinda fun and might help with ideas on placement and role. I suppose at a certain point you're building a big puzzle instead of a dungeon. And, well, sorry for dragging it back to video games.

>>96812538
Commandos is a video game. Shadow Tactics is built around that same game play if not that same engine.
It's funny that you mentioned it.

>>96812118
Because shounen characters generally increase a wide variety of abilities and attributes over time in a gradual way, or even just learn a singular new ability, transformation, or trick, far closer to something like GURPS, than going up an incremental, abstract power ladder, like D&D's class levels, you unbelievable blithering retard.

>>96814062
lol that is kinda funny

I was thinking last night, you could also check out the Ocean's trilogy or the Mission Impossible series for inspiration. Good luck, bro.

>>96771307
>tfw when nothing to scratch that battletech rpg itch that isn't bloated
I will make it one day

>>96805795
That's why most BT/MW gameplay is mercenary based and completely ignores main factions. Even 40k rpg's follow the same kinda idea, PCs need agency.

>>96814178
>Because shounen characters generally increase a wide variety of abilities and attributes over time in a gradual way
Which is an unholy pain in the ass to juggle in ala carte progression without getting blindsided by a conditional defense you forgot about the last few sessions and the GM missed your failure to progress, so levels are rather good to use for it because they keep the numbers treadmill in an easily-balanced proportion.

>or even just learn a singular new ability, transformation, or trick
...You do know that D&D has literally always had this separate from leveling up, right? Because Wizards learning spells by level-up was an addition by WotC, before that it was chargen, loot the diagrams, or research it yourself. Sure, Vancian is shit for any Shonen power set, but the precedent remains utterly foundational.

>than going up an incremental, abstract power ladder, like D&D's class levels
The increments do not have to be diegetic, merely discretizing a continuous scaling like how much Qi a Dragonball character has to throw around. Again, you seem to be rejecting the idea of abstracting ANY minute detail from the source material out of the system for convenience of play, which is a very difficult way to go about making a TTRPG modeled off a work of genre fiction.

>>96811858
Hey, anon. I genuinely appreciate you sharing this. Having just been in one of those sour threads you mentioned, this is a refreshing breath of actual tabletop love and solidarity.
>This definitely has rekindled the spark a little
If you ever feel like doing a storytime, I'll be interested.

>>96811398
>The enemy factions in a Mecha game need to be treated like an opposing party. they'll gain experience, upgrade equipment, adjust their thinking based on what interactions they have with the PCs. Otherwise, you run into a boring and disjointed game where advancement means there are "more orcs
I realise I'm trying to talk to a fucking retard based on the previous paragraph, but I'll try one more time. For enemies to adapt all you ever need is a capable GM. You're here writing walls of text about your ideal mecha game where the gist of your shit comes down to "I wish whoever is running this game would diversify their tactics" which can be done in literally any currently available mecha-adjacent system out there.

>>96771383
>Modern-era spy/thriller with an elegant ruleset
It’s called ‘Top Secret’ and TSR published it in 1980.

>>96802782
There’s also Steve Jackson Games ‘In Nomine’ in which you play angels and demons, it’s pretty fun too.

>>96771196
In places like Tilea, and Estalia, it implicitly was going that way.
Their dogs of War units tended to lean very pike heavy.
But like you said; the centers of firearms manufacture are mostly Imperial provinces like Nuln, Dwarf Holds in the Worlds Edge Mountains, and I suppose Cathay of late, since it has been fleshed out.

But more than logistics; gunpowder just doesn't provide the same definitive edge in a setting where magic bullshit will do just as well, with an approximately equivalent chance of disastrous mishap.

>>96778896
that was what I was gonna say

>>96818795
You're still extremely retarded and you're even more of a nogames than I thought you were. Jesus fucking christ, how do you think any of this shit works? Do you base your entire understanding of /tg/ off of amateur litrpg fiction?

>>96825353
Explain to me why it is utterly unacceptable to batch the often-in-a-declared-ladder power levels into brackets scaling the basic numbers as levels do.

Explain to my why it is utterly unacceptable to batch mechanics for entities who share explicitly-delineated power sources like classes are.

Explain to me why it is utterly unacceptable to batch the assorted off-beat technique acquisitions under a framework functionally comparable to Wizards scribing spells into their books.

Explain to my why the issues in question CANNOT be handled by small enough to retain recognition changes to the D&D elements in question.

Because the point in contention is being able to apply more than the raw resolution mechanics from D&D to systems for a variety of genres, not the ability to port arbitrary weebshit into D&D proper with high precision. Set aside all issues with Vancian spellcasting and the existing class, spell, feat, and skill lists and consider the structure all that content exists within; Can you say that the raw class+level model left is wholly inappropriate for something like Bleach that literally has numeric ranks for power measurements theoretically shared among a variety of ordinarily mutually exclusive expressions?

>>96821570
I'm no more of a retard as you are a nogames shill, fren. We're just having a brainstorming session, after all. Namasté.

What Im getting at is what many GMs do with a mecha or mecha-adjacent game is take things directly out of the book, put too much focus on storytelling, ignore enemy intelligence, and treat the mechs themselves as a +1 sword. I blame D&D for this.

If the primary focus of a mecha game is mech battles, pilots, etc, then the same emphasis has to be true for both sides. The problem with ignoring or downplaying mech autism is you can end up with very samey interactions and combats. There needs to be a clear, deliberate arms race being represented and all the better if the PCs can anticipate the on-site and off-site enemy adaptations.

Maybe take a look at how real vehicles adapted during WW2, or car models adapting to market trends? Now that I mention it, maybe there's a bipedal Chevy Nova somewhere in the design tree? Or any number of quirks that arise during development or field testing?

>>96825576
Your autistic power scaler bullshit being able to apply numbers to things does not explicitly translate to a class and level based model. It's simple as that. You're unbelievably retarded with your constant need to make up new qualifications and abstractions for the argument that D&D's class system works for anything else. It doesn't. It barely works for D&D.

Applying levels to things is an abstraction that works as long as you are playing within the exact parameters of D&D so that a DM can estimate appropriate CR for building encounters.

The Classes aren't power sources, they are combat roles and archetypes for strategic, pseudo-wargame play.

Wizards scribing spells has not been a thing in D&D for longer than not. Even then, you still need to have spell levels, spells per day, casting level and assorted other restrictions that do not translate outside of D&D's pasture of sacred cows.

To get around all of these problems is to strip out so many of D&D's mechanics and the ways that they are used that it is beyond retarded to insist that D&D works. Because tearing the whole thing down to its foundation and replacing it with a different framework for classes, abilities, spells, and so on is not the same thing as saying "D&D's class system totally works for this premise/genre/series!"

Fuck off back to your LitRPG nogames circlejerk and your powerscaling arguments, faggot.

>>96827982
>>96825576
Both of you retards post screenshots from your current games to prove you actually have one or shut the fuck up with your insufferable bullshit.

>>96827982
>Your autistic power scaler bullshit being able to apply numbers to things does not explicitly translate to a class and level based model.
It does not HAVE to, no, but when the source material has explicit power-scaling especially of TYPICALLY non-fungible kinds it's a perfectly viable ABSTRACTION of the actual in-universe process.

>You're unbelievably retarded with your constant need to make up new qualifications and abstractions
I direct you to my earlier posts to demonstrate it is not a new qualification:
>>96807723
>Sure, Vancian slots and the existing class roster don't work for much even in D&D's own internal fiction, but there's still quite a lot of the structure usable VERY far from D&D assumptions.

>Applying levels to things is an abstraction that works as long as you are playing within the exact parameters of D&D so that a DM can estimate appropriate CR for building encounters.
...No, there are many other escalation frameworks outside the parameters of D&D proper that CR-based encounter estimation is quite useful for, and older editions have the slightly-different megadungeon level framing that can be basically one-to-one matched to serial fiction escalation of arbitrary flavor. Sure, it may not be perfect, but combat treadmills really are an entire category of narrative tropes and framing devices.

>The Classes aren't power sources, they are combat roles and archetypes for strategic, pseudo-wargame play.
I direct your attention to 4e that does state such, and once again state that the point is not D&D proper being suitable but that more of its structure than basic resolution is useful.

>Wizards scribing spells has not been a thing in D&D for longer than not.
...Literally only 4e drops the spellbook as standard. The physical copy of the 5e player's handbook on the table next to me describes it on page 112.

Cont.

>>96827982
>Even then, you still need to have spell levels, spells per day, casting level and assorted other restrictions that do not translate outside of D&D's pasture of sacred cows.
>o get around all of these problems is to strip out so many of D&D's mechanics and the ways that they are used that it is beyond retarded to insist that D&D works. Because tearing the whole thing down to its foundation and replacing it with a different framework for classes, abilities, spells, and so on is not the same thing as saying "D&D's class system totally works for this premise/genre/series!"
How many times do I have to say that this is not about D&D proper but instead the usability of recognizable structure for other purposes and to throw out your obsession with specific content? Again:
>>96825576
>Because the point in contention is being able to apply more than the raw resolution mechanics from D&D to systems for a variety of genres, not the ability to port arbitrary weebshit into D&D proper with high precision.

Finish reading the fucking post!

>>96827982
scribing scrolls stopped being a thing in 4e, 4e is what 2008? so 1973 to 2008 is 35 years. 2008 to 2025 is 17 years. Scroll scribing and spellbook maitnence was a thing for twice as long as it was not.

Classes are good but i dont think a game has tried to lean into class fantasy since hackmaster

I think what we need is a sysem that puts everything together well. all the subsystems plus the traditional classes and races.

We want timekeeping like torchbearer, domain play like a mix of hackmaster and birthright that integrates with hexcrawling and point crawling. We need a whole economy like 3.5 but probobly abstracted down somewhat. We need a rich downtime action system like Icon. We need balanced character options, and a huge variety like 4e but with creativity like 13th age or lancer. Bring back class quests.

>>96828530
>>96828538
You read the fucking post. If you've got to remove and reinvent so many fucking things to make your retarded idea work, that is not the same thing as saying that D&D works for things it does not work for otherwise.

You're currently pitching a hodgepodge of AD&D, 4e, and 5e as a workable framework for shounen battle series and litRPG faggotry because you think "levels = power level" makes sense. in contexts outside of D&D's inbred herd of sacred cows.

Again, if you have to butcher the mechanics into unrecognizable pieces, then that means it not the same mechanics and it means it didn't work in the first place. Saying you could run shounenshit in D&D as long as you change the way literally everything works, but you keep words like "levels" and "classes" is a fucking retarded argument and you've yet to say a single thing that proves otherwise.

>>96828646
>If you've got to remove and reinvent so many fucking things to make your retarded idea work, that is not the same thing as saying that D&D works for things it does not work for otherwise.
Again:
>>96807723
>Sure, Vancian slots and the existing class roster don't work for much even in D&D's own internal fiction, but there's still quite a lot of the structure usable VERY far from D&D assumptions.

>>96811464
>It is, however, a major mechanical element beyond the basic resolution. Which is the point I am actually making, that rather a lot of structure can fit a wide range of fiction just by replacing the content filling it.

>>96811798
>I don't care if you can't ... wrap your head around a D&D-derivative not using the existing classes and Vancian slot allotment. People do in fact write stories with distinct grades of power in distinct categories that offer options from among distinct named abilities, and it's a useful way to wrangle scope and power creep into playable systems even outside that.

>>96812118
>Or are you just going to keep screeching that because it doesn't fit D&D proper the class+level skeleton of progression can't be fitted to it?

>>96818795
>Sure, Vancian is shit for any Shonen power set, but the precedent remains utterly foundational.

>>96825576
>the point in contention is being able to apply more than the raw resolution mechanics from D&D to systems for a variety of genres, not the ability to port arbitrary weebshit into D&D proper with high precision

How many ways do I have to say that it's not about D&D proper, but about having recognizable parts above basic resolution mechanics? The class+level system having the classes within it completely replaced still retains large chunks of D&D rules text, even when you replace the terms "class" and "level" with diegetic ones. You can nigger-rig 3.5 Psionics into an absurd variety of "mana" based systems just by replacing the Power lists and rescaling PP volumes and recovery.

>>96771383
Night's Black Agents?

>>96770920 (OP)
When I was looking at this, the main one I saw was non-zeerusted, medium future, science fiction that doesn't go hardcore on the transhumanism. It's all either Traveller (zeerusted to hell with giant bulky computers and psi) or Mindjammer (eighteen bajillion weird sapients who are all human-descendants).

Never Mass Effect or Halo-esque, where you have humans, a few aliens, force fields, and FTL, but minimal transhumanism and worldbuilding that doesn't feel 50 years out of date.

>>96828709
>it totally works!
>as long as you change everything that makes it not work and create new rules that reinvent all the rules that get in the way
So, it doesn't work and your entire assertion is that you can make a class system that fits other genres, but only if you reinvent and combine all of the rules and mechanics for classes, powers, spells, how and when they are acquired, and so on. All to prove that point that being able to translate power level, in some cases, to character level, is a totally valid reason to make the same mistake every retard makes, and adapt D&D into something it wasn't meant for.

>or even worse, being the kind of retard who thinks they can make D&D work as the basis for their hyper niche game idea.
>The structures cover a lot more cases than you'd likely be comfortable with, since a LOT of stories have crazy-broad scaling in buckets separated for rarely-explained reasons.
You are genuinely retarded.

>>96830204
>it totally works!
>as long as you change everything that makes it not work and create new rules that reinvent all the rules that get in the way
...Yes, and? It's good to see that you're finally starting to understand the idea is stripping D&D for parts to get a system going by actually considering if you NEED to reinvent the basics instead of insisting on trying to tightly fit everything with clean-sheet work.

>So, it doesn't work and your entire assertion is that you can make a class system that fits other genres, but only if you reinvent and combine all of the rules and mechanics for classes, powers, spells, how and when they are acquired, and so on.
And you lost it, it's specifically that it isn't ALL of them. How often do you think a class+level system DESPERATELY NEEDS to use baseline rules irreconcilably alien to D&D's history? How much TIME do you think writing a mana-pool magic system from scratch takes versus replacing the terms the Expanded Psionics Handbook uses and rescaling its PP numbers to fit? Identifying analogies in systems you're familiar with then looking to see if those rules can be fitted keeps you actually making a system instead of wrestling with premises for it.

>All to prove that point that being able to translate power level, in some cases, to character level, is a totally valid reason to make the same mistake every retard makes, and adapt D&D into something it wasn't meant for.
That block of self-replying was specifically to highlight otherwise; Most of the mistakes stem from rigid adherence to D&D-proper with things like Vancian spellcasting and class design paradigms, while I'm constantly saying to be fine with changing and outright removing parts AS NEEDED.

>>96830585
You are operating under the assumption that your idea to clusterfuck together random rules and ideas from multiple editions of D&D will result in time saved or that it is otherwise just better to use D&D's rules and fudge the gaping chasms to make things fit into the gaping chasms where the long list of built-in design assumptions for D&D do not work for a given genre or series. Saying you can just take something from one edition and rescale it for another edition doesn't actually mean that works or that such a task would be easy or quick or that the powers attached to that system would work perfectly, meaning you'd need to then readjust all of those powers and add or subtract from them over and over until they fit the premise you were attempting to emulate in the first place.

The reason this is a mistake isn't just because D&D and the d20 framework maps poorly to practically everything else that isn't meant to be dungeon crawl high fantasy combat treadmilling. It's because people have been doing that for nearly 50 fucking years and it never turns out well. Every idiot, like you, believes that it's just so easy to just nudge and tweak the game a little to fit Naruto or DBZ or HxH or whatever they happen to be enamored with at the time, and not a single one of them has made a genuinely good game in the process.

It is an inherently flawed and foolish premise, no matter how much you try to convince yourself that there's already enough material there that will work. You will only create more labor for yourself and the final product, if you even make a complete game, will be kinda terrible at best. It's not only a warning that your idea won't work the way you think it will, but advice not to waste your time trying. Especially when other people have already done it and either failed, or made something so radically different that to call it D&D at all is silly.

Mutants & Masterminds already exists and does nearly everything you're so sure you can do anyways

>>96830729
>You are operating under the assumption that your idea to clusterfuck together random rules and ideas from multiple editions of D&D will result in time saved
Compared to trying to come up with a mechanic for a concept from scratch, oftentimes yes.

>or that it is otherwise just better to use D&D's rules
No, merely that they can be a viable point to start.

>and fudge the gaping chasms to make things fit ... where the long list of built-in design assumptions for D&D do not work for a given genre or series
Given how often this is just replacing the content or dropping non-entagled subsystems, yes.

>Saying you can just take something from one edition and rescale it for another edition doesn't actually mean that works
The rescaling mentioned is about shifting Psionics to the use-rates desired so you can not have to write like ten paragraphs of basic shit.

>or that the powers attached to that system would work perfectly
Again, content can be replaced, and in fact SHOULD.

>meaning you'd need to then readjust all of those powers and add or subtract from them over and over until they fit the premise you were attempting to emulate in the first place.
Or just dial in your adjustments of the system underlying them with only the simplest of use-cases and refill from there.

>The reason this is a mistake isn't just because D&D and the d20 framework maps poorly to practically everything else that isn't meant to be dungeon crawl high fantasy combat treadmilling.
Because of the total body, you dense motherfucker. When you're ripping out large chunks and overhauling the contents that remaining subsystems refer to, that is not hard to change.

>it's just so easy to just nudge and tweak the game a little
Total content replacement and rescaling all time pressures is not "a little"!

>or made something so radically different that to call it D&D at all is silly.
THAT IS LITERALLY THE FUCKING POINT! To strip D&D for parts as the "basis" for a decidedly NOT D&D game!

>>96830877
Making a homebrew game or using another, even another preexisting d20 system is unthinkable, but gutting and frankensteining together arbitrary chunks of D&D subsystems, optional rules, and wholly original content that you'd make yourself is a good idea and worth arguing about for days, huh?

You really are retarded.

>>96830965
>Making a homebrew game
>gutting and frankensteining together arbitrary chunks of D&D subsystems, optional rules, and wholly original content that you'd make yourself
The former is the point via the latter, and the pattern of behavior need not be constrained to D&D as source material. Because as previously mentioned:
>>96830585
>Identifying analogies in systems you're familiar with then looking to see if those rules can be fitted keeps you actually making a system instead of wrestling with premises for it.

>>96784310

Yeah Age of Sail and gunpowder in general is massively underrated and overlooked. Ido think that running a game in that era will end up with GMs having to sacrifice some historical accuracy at some point, not to mention some asshole company will make a disclaimer about how horrible colonialism was, mocking Western notions of heroism and how enlightened these Indians were until these horrible White people cursed them with running water. Check out games like Nahui Ollin, Freebooters, Honor + Intrigue, 17th century gothic

>>96781479

Do it now, you'll be glad that you did.

>>96770920 (OP)

Heists, espionage and Indiana Jones kind of adventures. Yes, I know there are some games out there that can be used for that, sure (Raiders of the Lost Artifacts, Top Secret, Broken Compass, 007 RPG, White Lies, Delta Green perhaps, Hollow Earth Expedition, Pulp Cthulhu, Spirit of the Century).

But how many people have you seen playing them? Hardly any. And those are all interesting topics read to be explored. I tried to run a few games based on Indiana/Uncharted and only managed to play a handful of sessions.

>>96831846
>Yes, I know there are some games out there that can be used for that ... But how many people have you seen playing them?
Pic related.

>>96831866

I don't think any of those systems is wrong and needs updating, just saying people aren't playing that kind of games and they're missing out on great genres.

>>96831846

By this metric only DND is played enough to matter.

>>96833012

Where did that come from? Was my post not clear? Those games exist and they are totally fine, the thing is that people barely play those genres. DnD is far from being the only popular game; WoD, Pathfinder, Cthulhu, OSR... but rarely if ever do players stray from the beaten path of "medieval" fantasy (not actually medieval though), 1920s cthulhu and an occasional science fiction game. Most people do not innovate, they just follow trends.

>>96833104

It's all relative anon. A lot of people would say that even COC isn't played enough.

>>96833133

You're just twisting semantics. CoC is very far from being obscure or niche and you know exactly what I meant. Those genres I mentioned rarely if ever get played. Don't believe me? Try to find a single ad for any of the games I mentioned.

Now you could argue that they're played enough, and that if people don't choose them, then that's the way it ought to be. I disagree, I think people just follow whatever is trendy and end up missing out on great stuff because they didn't have it in them to think outside the box.

>>96833155

Believe me anon, a lot of people think it is. I don't like it, you don't like it, but that's beside the point.
(well, actually, I kinda hate Chaosium, but not for the genres that COC is used for)

It is true that espionage is rare (it even really doens't have a solid game to lean on), but heists and even more Indiana Jones-type things are solidly less rare. I mean, I would agree that they are "rare", but then it's all a question of feeling.

>>96833204

I'm genuinely curious. Have you ever heard anybody say that Cthulhu is obscure or minor? It's aguably the second most-played RPG after 5e.

Do you know of any people playing Indiana Jones-like games or heists?

>>96833518

Yes. Well, he said it was an "alternative" game, like it is not, well DND.

>>96833571
Whoever said that doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.