Thread 717870328

You should be able to criticize ANY game regardless of how rabid the fan base is

>I suck a games
k

>>717870328 (OP)
there's plenty of criticism to be made about souls games. but not about the difficulty.
i'm a button mashing retard and i beat radahn with light armor, no shield.

>>717870328 (OP)
Shut up and make beats Metro

>critisized the game
You didn't beat it.

>>717870328 (OP)
>I wish these games were easier!
>then summon for help
>no I dont wanna
Explain this

>>717870328 (OP)
Are we not? Does anyone think that saying "bet it was too hard for you heh" it's a valid rebuttal?

>Not all difficulty is good difficulty
Then play games that are more to your liking rather than whining for a journalist mode. I don't like mangoes but I'm not going to write a bad review about a dish that contains them. I'll just order something else. Not every game is going to, nor should they, appeal to you.

>>717870658
people might say i didn't beat the game....

>>717870328 (OP)
Linking the article would’ve been a good option as well OP

https://www.polygon.com/we-have-to-be-able-to-criticize-soulslike-games/

>>717870895
>didn't summon for jolly cooperation
you didn't beat the game

>>717870658
It's more like
>I wish the bosses didn't hit so hard and have 30-second combos!!
>just summon if you want it to be easier
>I don't want to summon, I want the boss to be less stupid
>git gud :^)

People can't understand criticism anymore. Everything's a gotcha. I hate trying to talk with retards.

>>717871287
boss combo lengths arent the problem

the reason you cant criticize these games is because most peoples criticisms are just dumb and the actually good criticisms arent understood by casual players. the whole genre is cooked and the casuals are all on board now and the only type of difficulty they want is rote memory trial and error gameplay where a boss is fun "once you learn it"

>>717871287
>I wish the bosses didn't hit so hard and have 30-second combos!!
What souls bosses are like this?

>>717870913
>linking to Polygon
yikes....

>>717871514
The point wasn't the specific criticism, it's people bringing up non-sequiturs as solutions. The solution to 30-second boss combos, for example, is not summoning an ally; it's reducing the fucking boss combo, or eliminating them entirely. That's just one example.

>>717871593
I was obviously being hyperbolic, but Morgott does have a 13 second combo. I think any boss combos that completely disengage the player are bad. I.e., if it forces you to run around like a chicken while the bossgoes on a little tantrum, I think it's bad design, period. Mixing it up with one or two varied combos is fine, but 13 seconds of disengagement is absolutely deplorable design, and I don't know who signed off on it.
Unless, of course, the game is designed to facilitate such combos, like in Sekiro or Lies of P. But again, the point of my original post was people responding to valid criticism with solutions that don't follow the original contention.

I detest bosses who just waste time. Like the ones who fuck off the map to cast some spell and all you do is wait until you can hurt them again but if you get hit, its 1 hit kill or 90% of your health.

>>717870328 (OP)
Riddle me this, if you only played one game for thousands of hours, specifically one that you started playing when you were young and impressionable because it provided validation from your peers, how well would you handle criticism of this golden idol you created? Soulsfags rarely play anything besides others soulslikes precisely because it's all they know and it's the formula they compare all other games against. It's the same deal with mobafags and a bunch of other examples where there's a social pressure to succeed or "get gud" that drives engagement. A game can suck complete ass but so long as it offers a chance to feel accomplished in your otherwise worthless life, people will defend it, and their fake accomplishments, to the bitter end.

>>717870667
retarded fromdrones (aka 90% of /v/) think so.

How can anyone possibly struggle with rollslop? All you do is roll. They gave you immunity frames so retards can beat it without thinking much. How???

>>717870328 (OP)
Who is stopping you?

If you can't even beat the games then you really have no room for criticism. If you don't trust someone who hasn't watched a movie for a movie review, why would you trust a game reviewer if they can't even beat the game at the bare minimum?

>>717872303
Why aren't you making bank as the #1 souls streamer in the world? Would be easier money than flipping burgers like you do now.

>>717870895
oh no then youll fucking melt and die? is that is? because someone was mean to you? and thats froms fault?

>>717870328 (OP)
skill issue

>>717871940
The boss has 30 attack combos (not really but whatever) because it's designed around you summoning, blocking, or whatever way you want to find to beat it.

>>717870328 (OP)
>you have freedom to speech but not freedom from the consequences

>>717872743
Yes. I know. I think that's bad design. You can justify it however you like, but I still think it's bad.

>>717870328 (OP)
nightreign isn't a soulslike and "it's too hard" isn't criticism

>>717872880
>I think it's bad design
Why? That is what the game wants to be. It's like playing a FPS game and going
>Wow this game puts way too much emphasis on hitting headshots, there should be more RPG elements to balance it out

>>717870328 (OP)
git gud

>Every souls like has shit magic gameplay
Why. I just want to blow things up.

>>717870328 (OP)
And you can. You're free to criticise whatever you want, and others are free to criticise your criticism. Isn't freedom wonderful?

>>717870328 (OP)
You absolutely can criticize Soulslikes. Just not if it has 'FromSoftware' on the box.

>>717873056
You're the exact person this thread is talking about. People are allowed to think Elden Ring or whatever is bad design.
>Why?
Because anything that directly takes away player agency is bad design, in my opinion. If the boss performs a long combo, and my reaction is to roll my eyes, sigh, and proceed to run in a circle because I can't attack, I think that's bad. If you like that kind of design, that's fine, good for you. I think it's shit and retarded. Yes, I can easily find a solution to the problem by overpowering Morgott in any number of ways--and I do, btw--but I think that's indicative of another problem: I prefer not to engage with your game because it's designed in a such an unenjoyable and hostile way. I don't mind overcoming challenges. I've played plenty of hard games. I think ER bosses, on the whole, suck.

>But ER is designed that way, you can't complain
No, I can, and I will.

>the game's just not for you then, why do you play it?
I like the exploration. These used to be adventure games with an equal focus on exploration, mystery, and combat. Now they're just humanoid bosses designed to directly counter established lessons taught by previous entries. This has been a problem since DSIII.

>>717870328 (OP)
>You should be able to criticize ANY game regardless of how rabid the fan base is
We've been through this many times already. The tryhards will not allow criticism of Souls games.

What exactly is difficult about these games when you can summon 3 people to beat the boss for you or use a broken magic build that trivialize all bosses?

>>717870328 (OP)
literally nothing has ever stopped anyone from doing so.

>>717870913
Use Pastebin, newfiend.

>>717870328 (OP)
Yeah I don't know why that's a crazy take

>>717873397
>Because anything that directly takes away player agency is bad design, in my opinion.

That’s such a terrible take you’re asserting that any attack in an action game that forces a response from the player is taking away their agency but also simultaneously asserting that “overpowering the boss” is also refusing to engage with the game

>>717872303
A game being possible to beat does not make it well designed, mouthbreather. try to read the room.

>>717873920
Fromdrones are so tiresome. That's not at all what I'm saying. Try again.

>>717872186
Yeah, it's one thing if getting to the boss is a challenge or at least a spectacle like the dragon in Sekiro but shit like Augur and Caligo where getting to them is just running in a straight line and maybe rolling one move it's just awful.

>>717870328 (OP)
My issue with this type of sentence is not that the person doesn't like the game or sucks at it or whatever. It's that nobody is stopping them from criticizing the game. Hell, this person got to publish an article about how the game should be criticized.

What the article is actually saying is "I want to criticize the game without anyone rasing a counter-argument or talking back in any way".

>>717874162
>you can’t just respond to my point, you have to retype out my entire post and go line by line so I can drag you into an endless autistic argument that devolves into rhetorical nitpicking
Lolno I’m not playing that game
And let’s say I agree with some of your points, and I said “yeah some of that’s true but I still like it”, you wouldn’t let it go would you? You’d try to make the entire thread about expanding off the concession, which is why people now aren’t receptive to this kind of criticism

I agree with both statements, but I have a feeling I woouldn't agree with all of this writer's criticisms.

>>717874507
What the fuck are you talking about, retard. You didn't comprehend my post, and that's fine. Don't throw a spergfest about it.

FromSoft games have such great art direction I think buying them is doing a service to society.
The writing is shallow but the music and architecture make up for it.

>>717874682
Somebody who was genuinely trying to be understood would rephrase their point, you are playing gay word games

>>717870328 (OP)
No one is stopping you from criticising it.
You just can't handle the fact that people have legitimate rebuttals to your criticism and want to be able to complain with no push back.
>Not all difficulty is good difficulty
Not all games have to have "good difficulty".

The problem is that "difficulty" is such a vague, wide and spreaded subject that any allusions to it feel almost impossible to take seriously because so many people interpret it differently.
When people say "difficult", you aren't critizing anything specifically. You are saying the entire game is like that. That the game is either poorly thought out, working against you or lacks features or whatever else that makes the experience frustrating. But what you need to do is to mention what you don't like, not that it's just "difficult". Take this for example: Urban Reigns' story mode is shit because the AI can read your inputs, the boss characters have super armor (and can have weapons), hit like a fucking truck and can kill you in two hits, and there's some escort/protect missions which are absolutely annoying. Not to mention the game can be hard to maneuver which makes it more frustrating to deal with.
Note that I didn't just flatout say the game was "too hard" or that the mechanics were bad. Just that the design of the story mode itself isn't that good. What any criticism needs is that degree of nuance; what don't you like? Why? Are there any potential examples or ideas you have, ie, feedback? You can't just say "it's too hard" and that's it, and your complaint can't be so vague either. You need to stand your ground and know what you're talking about.

>>717872679
Based. That old man took me 2 hours. Most fun boss in the game.

>>717870913
Don't offer up the real site and give them more clicks (even though I gave them one to take this screencap).

>>717870328 (OP)
Feel free to criticize after finishing the game. The problems are not the difficulty anyway.

>>717871940
>I was obviously being hyperbolic, but Morgott does have a 13 second combo.
Literally just block, parry or use Endure and make him sit the fuck down.
You retards still think this is Dark Souls 1 or 2 where you have to wait for your turn, you have plenty of options, you just need to fucking use them

Game journos are the lowest of the low, bottom of the barrel pondscum "gamer". They can't beat the cuphead tutorial, they can't beat Doom 2016's first handful of enemies on easy mode, they hand out 9/10 good reviews for getting their dick sucked by a 4/10 woman with purple hair. Nobody should listen to anything they have to say at any point. If they express an opinion regarding a game's difficulty it is safe to ignore it entirely knowing that it was an opinion worth less than the life of a pajeet dancing on a train track.

>>717875083
oh okay so it's just an extended complaint about the fanbase telling him he sucks

>>717874918
I rephrased my point several times. >>717872186
summed it up nicely. Does that satisfy your autistim? Do you understand now?
I don't give a shit if you actually understand my point or not. You're not that important.

>>717870328 (OP)
No one in history has ever said you shouldn't be able to criticize soulslikes. That's different from crying for an easy mode.

>>717870415
i suck dick

Games should be hard, DS3 and Sekiro are the right amount of difficulty.
I started playing RE4 on Hardcore and that game requires landing nothing but headshots to get through the first chapter, that's when games become "too difficult".

>>717870328 (OP)
This but Nintendo

>>717873518
We just don't care about the criticism. That's very different.

>>717875218
A boss that goes off the map and becomes invulnerable to do a scripted attack is not the same thing as a boss that has combos, that is ridiculously pedantic

>>717875352
RE4R is a whole other issue. RE4's original Professional was perfect difficulty, because it was hard, but rewarded mechanical game knowledge. If you scored a headshot, you scored a stagger, and thus you could control the crowd with a kick or whatever.
In RE4R, the staggers almost seem random. So sometimes you score several in a row, get no stagger, and get grabbed. It sucks.

>>717870328 (OP)
People that defend shitty games (like ER, nuDoom, or Ninja Gaiden) by insisting that any complaints about shitty design or game mechanics are actually simple complaints about difficulty and who think that any difficulty is good and that complaints literally can't exist except about difficult are retarded subhuman shitskins. Bonus points of they misuse the word filtered and don't even know why real people (and not demented monkeys) here actually used the term.

>I should be allowed to criticize the Godfather, because it wasn't like Shrek and I felt alienated
No, you get to criticize things when you're actually part of the intended audience, and it still fails for you. Being a shitter, is just being a shitter.

>>717875475
You're arguing with yourself. I was very clear. How embarrassing.

>>717875614
Anyone can criticize the Godfather and you can seethe fucking forever about it, homo.

>>717875352
>that's when games become "too difficult".
RE4R difficulty is fantastic in all aspects except for villager magnet grabs and the very occasional bullshit dynamite misting you. You need to learn to aim and to use parries and ducks.

>>717875484
Nah. No guaranteed stagger is good. It's more in line with how old RE played, and the instant staggers in the original made it too easy. Also, wait for your pistol reticle to close before shooting and you do significantly more stagger damage. It almost never takes more than 2 properly aimed pistol headshots to stagger.

>>717870328 (OP)
Absolutely, but also, if your entire passtime is being critical, you probably need to look inward.

>>717872565
My job is doing absolutely nothing, which is far easier than both.
>>717874079
Now where did I say it was well designed?

>>717870328 (OP)
nobody is stopping you from criticizing it tho?

>>717875692
If your criticism is that you don't know where Italy is, and have no conception of organised crime, and didn't understand why everyone was acting do funny, then no, you don't get to criticize it.

>>717875741
>No guaranteed stagger is good.
Disagreed. Proper difficulty rewards mastery and punishes lack of skill. With mastery, you should be able to go through a difficult game unscathed with zero randomness, and you should lose if you make too many mistakes. That's simple psychology. If you're training a dog, you don't randomly swat it in the head when it performs a behavior properly, you reward it.

>>717875878
Keep seething. I can criticize whatever I want, regardless of your strawmen.

>>717875926
You *can* criticize anything, in theory, but I can call you a retard who missed the entire point, and intelligent people will listen to me and not you.

I think Souls games should become slow again.
I'm tired of the roll slop.

>>717876017
>You *can* criticize anything
lol
imagine losing an internet argument
what a retard

>>717876064
There was still rolling when it was slow.
It was also shield slop.
And laggy pvp slop. That hasn't changed much.

>>717875692
This is such a Jewish way to discuss something lmao
First you assert a boss that does combos is wasting your time. When asked for clarification, you point to a post saying they hate bosses that waste your time by eg going off the map and using a big spell you have to dodge. Then when challenged on that, you assert the two posts are entirely unrelated! So why’d you even bring it up as an example of what you’re talking about?!

>>717876209
Imagine outing yourself as this much of a brainlet in a public setting when you could have just shut the fuck up and said nothing. Incredible performance.

>>717875926
>Disagreed
That's fine, but you're wrong. Instant stagger with any bullet trivializes the game.
>With mastery, you should be able to go through a difficult game unscathed with zero randomness
>zero randomness
No, that's speedrunner mindset faggotry.

>>717876287
>continues to argue jewishly
kek

>>717876405
Not arguing. Calling you a retard. You can't even understand when someone is simply insulting you because you're not worth it.

>>717876304
>but you're wrong
That's not how opinions work lmao. I hope you never design a game. RE4 was perfect in its implementation of difficulty.

>>717870328 (OP)
critiquing it for being hard is the least productive perspective.
Maybe how it is difficult is a better stance because elden ring didnt punch as hard as ds or ds2 maps. literally all of the boss arenas were ovals or circles.

>>717876493
>RE4 was perfect in its implementation of difficulty.
Wrong.

>>717876125
You can form words with your mouth. Doesn't mean you have moral authority to stand up on a platform and have people give you the time of day.
You aren't entitled to have other people listen to and go along with your shitty opinions, and you aren't entitled to wipe the market clear of certain kinds of video games or movies (which clearly do well and have an audience), just because you're a bitch who got your feelings hurt.

>>717876493
>akshually it's not arguing, it's insulting
don't you have some chickens to kill so you can 'trick' your god or whatever?

>>717876621
Gee, who do I trust, a game widely regarded as one of the best made of all time and redefined an entire genre single-handedly that still hasn't been topped to this day, not even by its own remake, or a random retard on 4chan?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

>>717876675
lose harder bro

>>717876675
ER's bosses are still poorly-designed, and you're a faggot for enabling this kind of behavior while also lacking the self-awareness to realize that you're part of the problem.

>>717876752
>I want video games to not exist, because I'm too much of a bitch to play them
Play a different game?

>>717876693
it did none of those things
retard

>>717876785
Something isn't poorly designed just because you don't like the way it's designed.
And if anything the problem with Elden Ring is it has a massive open world that exists to do nothing but waste your time with journeying, but you probably like that part, because it's easy.

>>717876836
bro, you lost
just close the tab

>>717870328 (OP)
If you're criticizing them from the perspective of difficulty, that is the wrong path from the start.
There are larger issues with Souls games than just that they can be too hard or obscurantist about details.

>>717877027
You're too dumb to understand the nuances of my argument.
You don't get to win just because you said you won.

>>717877120
There's nothing inherently wrong with the formula. The only question is whether you make a good one(Demon's Souls, Dark Souls), or a not so good one(Elden Ring).
If you don't like anything about these games, you're that one guy showing up a rock concert and saying "it's too loud, and there's nowhere to sit down. I don't get it".

Soulslop isn't bad because it's hard, it's bad because the formula devolved into a rhythm game. Guess when the boss is actually gonna deal damage, and press the invincibility button exactly when they deal damage, then counterattack. If you guess wrong too many times you have to start over. In a well designed difficult game, you have more things to think about and more ways to play than mindlessly pressing roll/block/parry at a particular moment.

>>717877296
Explain what's wrong with rhythm games.

>>717876493
>That's not how opinions work lmao.
You're a fucking idiot who's never touched a game engine, let alone designed a game. lmao

Sure, you can do that. Your free speech is not free from consequences though. If you shit on "soulslikes" you deserve to be shit on in return, for being an ass human-being. Stick to reviewing solitaire or something. Losers.

>>717877296
>Guess when the boss is actually gonna deal damage, and press the invincibility button exactly when they deal damage, then counterattack.
That's all action games ever made, except in some of those you don't even need that because bosses are jokes.

>>717877401
You can go to north korea and bad mouth the ruler, you're free to do that.
But you will not be free from the consequences (getting dragged to an execution wall and shot).
Which means your definition is a literal nothing unless we come up with tech to literally block people from saying things.

>>717873169
I think a bigger issue is
>Every soulslike is just discount Monster Hunter

>>717877345
There's nothing wrong with rhythm games. I, in fact, really enjoy rhythm games. But soulslop make for terrible rhythm games. In something like Guitar Hero (the most basic bitch rhythm game) you've at least got to consider whether a note is held or tapped, what notes are coming up next, whether it's a chord or not, etc. You don't just get better by learning the songs by heart, you get better as your fingers get more nimble and you're able to tell which notes are coming up further in advance, and so on. You only improve at soulslop by simply improving reaction time and learning which attacks are fakeouts/have ridiculously long or short windups, which doesn't happen naturally but rather through repetition. Learning the attacks of X boss has no impact on Y boss.

What even is this hypothetical action game where you never learn patterns, and everything is done with clever 4th dimension thinking?
That's not a real game that exists. That's a Jojo stand battle.

The essence of action games is "learn the handful of mechanics we throw at you, and react quickly, dumbass". They're all like that. Punch Out, Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, Streets of Rage, Yakuza, the entire shmup genre.
What games are you people playing?

do you ever get tired of people rehashing the same simplistic overdone discourse year after year after year
must we never be interesting?

>>717877261
There are definite issues that only grow more with the scope of the games.
One big one is the lack of reactivity and ability for the player to solve problems in creative ways outside of boss fights.
Most Souls puzzles have one answer and that is it. And if you don't do that exactly, then you won't get the solution.
This stands out to me because I just got done with a Baldur's Gate 3 playthrough and going back to DS1/Elden Ring, both felt extremely limited in terms of what I as the player was able to do regarding solving character quests or interacting with the environment. For an adventure series, there isn't a lot of actual creative adventuring being done. You mostly are playing according to a script you have to piece together.

Otherwise I could point to how loot mechanics in these games are almost always poorly implemented. And they maintain useless vestigial mechanics like farming for item drops that provide zero engaging experiences for it. Upgrading multiple weapons or gear items can become a massive chore in most games because of the stone system used, as another example of a totally unnecessary flaw that doesn't give anything interesting back for the tedium.
I could point to how the devs clearly struggle to work within level limitations for their enemies as many still openly clip through terrain or have pathfinding breakdowns with the slightest odd movement by the player.

These are all definite issues with the games that make them less enjoyable that are basic aspects of the formula.
A lack of interactivity between the player and the level. Awful loot mechanics and a poor balancing of weapons over the course of the game. Terrible upgrade systems that get tedious fast. And an inability to mesh enemy design and level design in a fluid manner. Among others.
These games being hard is not a problem. It is one of their appealing aspects. But there are problems.

>>717877617
>You only improve at soulslop by simply improving reaction time and learning which attacks are fakeouts/have ridiculously long or short windups
No, you improve by understanding basic mechanics and how to build characters well, which is why most people do not learn boss patterns at all, because you don't need to when you can build characters well and know how to use them

>>717870328 (OP)
The kneejerk responses ITT completely validate OP by the way

>>717877749
There are some games where the attack-defend "my turn your turn" cycle is way too strict and you are forced into a very specific playstyle, and I think on the whole that's bad. But Souls games aren't like that. They give you a lot of freedom of approach. Just because there's an optimal way to play doesn't mean it's the only way.

>>717875926
Randomness, where the player has to work within dynamically and unpredictably changing conditions, is a better test of skill than learning the perfect inputs that will work every time.

>>717877791
I don't think any of what you said is a problem, and don't even understand some of the criticisms.
There very much are multiple ways to tackle problems. You can use a sword, a spell, a bow, bomb, a summon...

>>717877872
The latest bosses are very much "my turn your turn" unless you are using a greatshield in which case it is always your turn.

>>717878005
So we're criticizing all games for not being rougelikes now?

>>717878115
>Nigga literally unable to not think in extremes

>>717878005
>Randomness, where the player has to work within dynamically and unpredictably changing conditions
That's how Souls and really the vast majority of action games work in the first place, enemies do not follow a linear script, and the way you deal with randomness is still by creating patterns for yourself and memorizing basic info.
In fact Roguelikes, the most random genre of all are some of the most memorization heavy games out there precisely because you can't just improvise.

>>717878164
What is the minimum acceptable level of randomness? I think you're just saying things.

>>717878226
Different enemy spawns

>>717878315
So like basically no action games?

>>717875083
>didn't use archive
that's your mistake idiot

>>717870328 (OP)
>We have to be able to criticize Soulslike games
They're criticized all the fucking time. Journo shitters are so fucking annoying.

>>717870328 (OP)
stop posting niggers, kill yourself

>>717878009
Those are ways to kill enemies.
But to give an example, in BG3, you can burn wooden structures in many areas to deny enemies access to certain places or to give yourself a way to escape. You can set physics traps for enemies alongside pathways you know they'll travel on. Move items around the overworld to give yourself positional advantage. Use those items to bypass obstacles. Solve questlines through various means without having to worry about event flags killing an NPC randomly. Etc.
Now I'm not saying that Souls games have to be some borderline immersive sim. But I'm pointing out that as complicated adventure games that ask you to think creatively, there are big issues with facilitating the player using that creativity for anything that isn't choosing a bow, spell, or sword to kill the next boss better than before. There are very few good puzzles in these games that reward multiple solutions, and most want one very specific solution to them and reject all other answers.

The best it gets is letting the player figure out unintended skips through regions with good verticality, without instantly killing them for doing that.
But the game doesn't facilitate that kind of play, only is benignly neglectful about it happening. Until you trip an event flag and randomly kill an important NPC, lol. :/

the west has fallen...

>>717878396
URL's not archived and I don't know or care enough to archive it myself.

>>717878495
nta but ER doesn't want to be that kind of game and isn't that kind of game it's kinda empty criticism. Also not even true since I think there's multiple ways to get up the big elevator to the snow area.

>>717878495
You want to manipulate the map in ways to stop enemies spawning, and lay traps?
Well, stepping aside the fact that the game doesn't have to do that just because you said, that is a thing that exists in some of these games. You can lay traps and ambush enemies, and DS2 has a whole tower defense mode you can play with other players.

>>717871287
>I want the boss to be less stupid
Its the point of the game, you are a slow knight, and you fight against anime characters

>>717878495
You're comparing a turn based, narrative heavy RPG to an action adventure game focused on combat, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
Might as well complain Torrent doesn't handle nearly as well as cars in Forza and that ER sucks compared to it.
ER also has plenty of interactions too, from using explosives or other means to knock enemies down pits, to luring them in advantageous spots using sounds, or specific interactions like crystal darts shortcircuiting constructs etc., using bewitching branches to turn enemy summons against them etc.

>>717878629
The issue is that in some ways it does want to be that kind of game.
For example, one of the best puzzles in the game is the Albinauric Tower in the Snowfield because it asks the player to figure out something, interpret a statue of two imps fighting, and gives you a few imp spawns as defenders of the tower. And then lets you solve that in a few different ways, either with imp spirit summons or with bewitching branches or crystal darts.
This is a good example of letting the player have multiple possible solutions to the problem given. But it is almost unique in this way, where other towers and most other puzzles in the game have no alternative solutions and only one right answer.
And even if you know A and C, not having the very specific item or doing the specific action of B in the middle cuts you out from being able to meet the ends together in terms of the game's reactivity mechanics.

Like I said, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Elden Ring, none want to be simulations that rely on mechanics to make emergent experiences. They're clearly curated to make you play them within a small number of potential roles.
But where they cut off is still too lean and leaves players artificially limited.

>>717872267
I play medieval 2 total war for the last 20 years. I would not recommend this game to my enemy, but I like it

>>717870328 (OP)
I want Elden ring levels of content in a dark souls 1 sized map. I want areas chock full of hidden paths and shortcuts with a lot of enemy variety. Give me an actual lived in town with people that I could actually save or subjugate instead of exclusively shantytowns filled with ghouls. A condensed, content filled labyrinth of areas with all of the developments the series has made would make for one of the best games of all time. I also think as a whole all damage should be nerfed but also make bosses less of a health sponge. Also there should be an actual positive to going heavy armor with no rolls. Being one shot in heavy armor vs 1 shot in light armor but having a million invincibility frames isn’t balanced.

Erdtree bosses were objectively the most shittily designed unfun, particle effect cancer bosses i think in any action game.
Making a bosses as difficult as possible; it's attacks taking up 90% of encounter playtime just is not fun. Thats all there is to it, no one finds it fun.

>>717878987
>The issue is that in some ways it does want to be that kind of game
No it doesn't. You are legit just low functioning autistic I'm sorry man.

>>717877872
I was actually thinking about that, while playing as a new character for Nioh 2. The game gets progressively harder with each NG+ (as it should) but replaying brand new had me realize that learning boss mechanics wasn’t as important as mechanical knowledge of the games systems itself. In theory most action games would be like that, where better understanding of mechanics is paramount, not specific knowledge of any particular enemy.

Soulslop is garbage stop making souls games. Especially the new Silent Hill f has no business being a soulslop.

>>717878948
I'm comparing a big adventure game to a big adventure game.
The focus of the games is not the same. I acknowledged that. BG3 is all about emergent creativity and mostly gives the player a sandbox to play around in. Dark Souls or Elden Ring are about giving the player a very specific type of experience and don't want you screwing that up.

I know that and I'm not debating the validity of the latter.
What I am saying instead, is that the cut off point for the latter is absolutely too sharp and too early. Because these games end up often feeling arbitrarily limited regarding player creativity or ability to approach dealing with conflicts with their common sense instead of playing around the idea that there is a specific solution they have to figure out first before anything else.
While you are rewarded for creativity in how you kill bosses in their arenas, what builds you make, what mechanics you exploit. The same does not go for the actual adventuring process up to that boss door.

>>717873397
You do understand that roll slop games are turn based right? From the first to the last, and with every copycat, you wait for a boss to swing and you dodge, you swing, then he swing, then you swing.
Its a turn based game.

>>717879249
>I'm comparing a big adventure game to a big adventure game.
You are comparing a CRPG to an ARPG this is so retarded

>>717879156
I’ve tried to get into Nioh but the Ki pulse spam because you have no stamina is so annoying. I think they did it somewhat better in Rise of Ronin with the parry mechanic.

>>717871593
NTA and not Fromsoft souls but Lies of P is definitely the worst offender of all when it comes to this. Every LoP boss has an attack that makes Malenia's waterfowl look reasonable

>>717870913
>linking to polygon

>>717879325
A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.
Replace BG3 with Dude Sex if genre title is problematic for you.
The point is how the open world adventure games differ in terms of how they let you the player express your creativity in approaching puzzles and problems set up by the game.
That one ultimately is a turn based RPG with a focus on dice rolls, and the other is a series of real time third person hack and slash titles, is immaterial because I'm talking about what is outside the combat arena rather than what is in it.

>>717870658
This is not an elitist take, even if it sounds like one, but summoning ruins Souls games. The entire point of the bosses is to learn their patterns and figure out how to deal with their attacks whether that means avoiding them or exploiting them to get your own hits in. It also lets you test your builds against them and in some cases with the longer multi-phase fights it's like a marathon where you have to be able to hold onto your resources like healing potions so you have enough to stay alive by the end of the fight. Summons completely throw all that out the window and turn it into a boring thing where you smack something that isn't paying attention to you half the time, if you use summons you might as well just not play the game because in a way you're really not. They've always been available as a weird crutch but they really shouldn't be and it's definitely better if they aren't. Everybody who has fought a souls boss with and without summons can attest to this, it's just not enjoyable to breeze through something you were meant to learn and struggle through.

>>717870328 (OP)
Translation: I need to be able to complain about souls games without any negative feedback that hurts my fee fees

>>717879510
>That one ultimately is a turn based RPG with a focus on dice rolls, and the other is a series of real time third person hack and slash titles, is immaterial because I'm talking about what is outside the combat arena rather than what is in it.

Uh huh. So if I start calling Mario 64 a bad game because it lacks a branching narrative this would be entirely reasonable because "the story exists independently of the platforming" god these pseudass posts

>>717878495
>But I'm pointing out that as complicated adventure games that ask you to think creatively,
There's nothing creative about Elden Ring. You just go from point A to point B kill the next boss and move on. Is one of the less imaginatives big RPGs to ever exist.

>>717879536
>The entire point of the bosses is to learn their patterns and figure out how to deal with their attacks whether that means avoiding them or exploiting them to get your own hits in.
No, that is coping with being weaker than the boss.
No one that minmaxed with Havel's armor needed to learn a boss like Artorius. They just hammered him down and took the W.
The point of the game is to beat the boss and have fun while doing it. Learning every moveset is what you must do if you are A.) a lot weaker than the boss in stats or power, and B.) don't have any tricks or strategies to close that up.
Lionizing the process of memorizing attack strings because you do 1/20th of a healthbar with an uncharged R2, is just turning an error in one place (the RPG character building aspect), into something that has to be coped with in another (the mechanical execution aspect).

>>717879121
>Don't be a landwhale
Even that's not required. I'd still be her partner for the rest of her life

>>717870328 (OP)
>yet more anemic attempts to turn people against souls games
you're gonna have to figure out parrying and dodging in order to be successful in the games press or as a streamer, i'm sorry but that's the only way you're going to make it.

>>717879680
If Mario 64 kept locking stars behind obscure puzzles with one solution or made it so that you had to go through most levels and beat most enemies in a very specific way, or gave you allies that randomly disappeared from the game if you did something wrong (or right) on accident, and we were comparing it to other 3D platformers, those issues would be noteworthy.
Instead Mario 64 within its limits of a 3D platformer game is very rewarding of player creativity and can be approached in many ways by different people and facilitates almost all of them.

imagine if fans of sonic would never shut the fuck up about how sonic is the best thing ever, and would insist that every new game (regardless of what series it belongs to) needs to be centered around rolling around like a ping-pong ball in a hurricane. imagine there's millions of these cunts demanding that every game MUST be turned into sonic, and producing mods that add sonic mechanics to everything from skyrim to rimworld, making it clear that's exactly what they want. and if you don't agree with total videogame sonication, then you are utter trash and you need to get good.

that would be pretty annoying, wouldn't it?

>>717870415
Fpbp

Get gud journos

>>717879249
>BG3 is all about emergent creativity and mostly gives the player a sandbox to play around in.
No, BG3 is a generic, linear CRPG with some moderately large degree of scripted interactions and a really clunky pseudophysics system that doesn't really do much of anything outside of breaking the game's combat even more than the already bad ruleset does, nothing about BG3 is emergent.
CDDA is a sandbox game, Caves of Qud is a sandbox game, Kenshi is a sandbox game, Elona/Elin are sandbox games, BG3 has a very controlled and restrictive game structure, more restrictive than ER too since there's way less bottlenecks in there.
>Because these games end up often feeling arbitrarily limited regarding player creativity
ER or FROM's games as a whole aren't about creativity, so again, you're barking at the wrong tree, they're atmospheric action adventure games with focus on modular combat.
>The same does not go for the actual adventuring process up to that boss door.
I have no idea how you can say that given that dungeon navigation alone routinely gives you multiple options.
I can rush through Stormveil by going through the main entrance, dodge a hail of ballista arrows and hordes of soldiers (or fight them) and get to Godrick with the least amount of time spent on navigating the whole thing, or I can take a long detour through the castle walls, or I can also just ignore Stormveil entirely since it's not compulsive, Leyndell is fuckhuge open playground you can navigate however you want and you can either trek all the way there or teleport inside the castle walls by doing Fia's quest, SoTE is a free for all buffet where navigation is extremely open with Messmer and Romina being the only required checkpoints before the final dungeon, and you can still do these out of order as well.

>>717879357
I replayed Froms games for comparison, and the lack of Ki pulsing meant I couldn't be anywhere near as aggressive as Nioh allows you to be because of it. It's a mechanic that feels awkward at first then becomes muscle memory. Which also means you can be more offensive against enemies and bosses that most From souls games don't allow for. Add in Yokai abilities, or the ki pulse weapon swaps, or the stance shift for more ki on pulse, and suddenly you have so many ways to regen more ki than just waiting for the bar to regen naturally.

>>717879906
You're not even making sense. Souls games are easily as flexible and open to improvisation as Mario 64.

>>717879917
they do do that?

>>717870328 (OP)
The main issue is that soulslikes need to branch out.
Where's my Bioware RPG Souls? My 4X Souls? My Battlefuck Souls? My SRPG Souls? My FPS Souls? My Card Game Souls? My Sports Souls?

>>717880081
When you approach Stormveil you can run in and stab enemies one direction or another.
That is good design that encourages experienced players to save time in the tutorial level on later runs. But it is doing the same thing in different contexts.

You are defining sandbox purely as just games without plotlines to them, even if they can be fairly mechanically simplistic.
That is true, in that BG3 is obviously a linear story driven game that is all about going from A-B with divergences along the way that all end in the same spot. But within that linear path, you are extremely mechanically free to approach conflict howsoever you want.
Now, neither of us want to turn this into a Baldur's Gate thread, so if you disagree, I accept that and won't argue much about it. Because the point is, that even if BG3 isn't as open as I felt it was, that it is still allowed for more problem solving that felt organic and natural than Dark Souls or Elden Ring did.

My main issue with Dark Souls and Elden Ring is that they at least wear the skin of very open games that give you a lot of choice.
Both let the player traverse at least half the game or more without much in the way of roadblocks right from the start and give off a feeling of facilitating creative approaches to complex problems in doing so. This is a classic part of the tagline for these Souls games. That they make and encourage you to "think like an adventurer".
The problem being that this is really skin deep in a way that feels at odds with the presentation and what comes naturally to the player in a game series that generally has very little player direction and ostensibly assumes that they will make their own way through complex circumstances. But then requires that this be done in a very specific way nonetheless.

>>717878195
>enemies do not follow a linear script
Unless they're input reading.

>>717881325
That boss looks like it bugged out and lost targeting of the player, they added a delay to the fireball anyway though since people whined about the boss interrupting their heals.

>>717881479
>That boss looks like it bugged out and lost targeting of the player
You can literally see it strafing. It's just garbage AI because that's how ER is made.

>>717870328 (OP)
I can criticize souls games a lot

i just dont think difficulty isnt one of them

>>717881325
It strafes for the first 4 seconds, but then it hits the wall and bugs out and starts heading to its spawn point. Then it regains targeting at 13 seconds

>>717879451
I feel like he earned that though

>>717880081
>atmospheric
Nothing atmospheric about empty world #323432 filled with zombies.
>adventure
Elden Ring world is dead (literally and metaphorically).
>modular combat
You roll and then you win.

>>717870667
This is a valid rebuttal for any game, not just Soulslikes

Just git gud

>>717870328 (OP)
I think the article title deserves a correction: we should be able to criticize Dark Souls series. The same goes for copycat sub genre it spawned for sure. But it was always artificial difficulty at it's very roots and the people that told you to git gud were lying.

>>717882198
Soulslikes are too easy desu
t. Monster Hunter Vet (Gen 2, not the 3ds slop)

>someone disagreed with my criticism? NOOOO NOO HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED
why are zoomies like this

>>717882247
Zoomers are too used to echochambers and being pandered to relentlessly (Era of inclusiveness and everyone is good in their own way)
So they literally don't know how to react when faced with opposition and no one is there to defend them

>>717870328 (OP)
>I deserve to be able to say I beat a game in under 6 hours
>I PAID RETAIL PRICE I SHOULD HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCE ANYONE ELSE PAID
nah lol get good. you can't criticize the game because you never experienced it you never lived it. now go write some faggot article about what it's like to be a trans black indian canadian in puerto rico who identifies as a cat on disability after going into debt to get a worthless degree you jewish lady

>>717870328 (OP)
Nightreign has been out for 2 months now and only 46.5% on PC/44.3% on PS5 have defeated all 8 nightlords. 18-25% still haven't beaten the fire dog.

with the new game mode coming, casuals will be further filtered.

>>717878860
That sounds like complete shit.

>>717871940
>The solution to 30-second boss combos, for example, is not summoning an ally; it's reducing the fucking boss combo, or eliminating them entirely.
what if I told you you could avoid being hit by the 30 second combo and spend that time doing damage to the boss you wouldn't listen to me anyways but that's not what the thread is about is it.

>>717879156
Yeah Nioh is based because it rewards your game knowledge and encourages proactive aggressive behaviour as opposed to getting gaped a dozen times by a monster and "learning" its timings like in most bad Soulslikes

>>717877609
No one will ever be willing to have this discussion and it's really too bad. They would rather talk about the ADP stat in DS2 before what you're trying to broach here.

>>717881831
What? Who earned what? Did you reply to the wrong post?

>>717879451
The final DLC boss is almost like a parody of that shit, he goes "mom said it's my turn" tier for a full 20 seconds sometimes. And half the time once he finishes he does some gay backstep and leaves your punish range. Absurdly terrible fight

I believe Souls shit isn't real difficulty, and Quake is the only game that got difficulty right to a certain degree when it comes to combat in a 3D space. Not without it's flaws either, but closer to ideal real difficulty from stuff you can find out of the modding like: Arcane Dimensions, The Punishment Due.

>>717882629
Could you tell me how to do so with Waterfowl, PCR's meteor clone slam, Elden Beast's multi-ring, Metyr's laser, and Bayle's fireball spam?

The turn around animation in Elden Ring sucks and nobody likes it.

>>717870328 (OP)
I read the whole article and even clicked on the Reddit link to Wuchang and I’ve never been more disappointed in humanity. One of the problems with this “critique” souls like meme is that all throughout the article most of the criticisms seems extremely vague while mostly only being tied to difficulty which is insanely subjective. They mention how people were super ass mad over the ER DLC but fail to communicate why that was and what changes were made. Then they do that gay retarded meme where they fallaciously link the answer to all these problems to fucking difficulty sliders. Nothing about map design or gotcha traps or enemy patterns or roll catching or heal catching or combos that go on forever or nothing. Just turn the damage down chud!!!!! And the Wuchang Reddit thread is fucking gay I actually thinks it’s a fucking false flag. People will put up with so much shit from a Fromsoft game but the moment a game does the exact same thing but with no Fromsoft logo all of a sudden it’s “REEEEEEEEE THIS IS FUCKING UNFAAAAAAAAIR!!!!”. Never mind the fact that even at Wuchang’s most difficult the game is still more manageable than end game ER or even end game Khazan. Fuck Nioh 1 is harder than Wuchang. And that’s not to say Wuchang is a cake walk but there’s no way on gods green earth that these faggots are actually saying Nioh 1 is heckin fair and balanced but Wuchang is just busted. And this is even with the knockdown issue which is greatly overrated as a core problem with the game (though I’m fine with it getting adjusted).

This is why Wuchang and other souls likes not made by Fromsoft will never escape the 80’s metacritic curse. Journos have accepted Fromsoft as the one who can abuse them and everyone else gets an HR report.

>>717879121
This is the best breakdown I've seen of what a mechanical clusterfuck the bosses in SotE are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JPukndfOI8

>>717870658
more like
>i wish these games were easier!
>then use ANY of the variety of tools the game gives you
>no

>>717870328 (OP)
But people criticize them all the time? What they're really saying is "We shouldn't ever get any pushback for our shit takes."

>>717870328 (OP)
>criticism of Souls games
>"IT'S TOO HARD!!!"
How does From do it?
They managed to create games that are extremely accessible and casual friendly, which is proved by elden ring selling dozens of millions of copies.
But at the same time they retain all the cred of being hardcore devs.
Is it because of the lack of quest markers?

>>717883448
I could, but then I would be robbing you the experience of finding out how to do it
:^)

>>717884495
I already know it's not possible to do so. Some of these moves can be cancelled during their startup via staggers or status procs, but that is not the same as utilizing the attack duration to perform your own counter.

>>717881830
You're mentally ill if you think that was a bug and not just shit AI.

>>717877761
i just skim hoping to see a particularly delusional opinion at this point
but what a sad state of affairs it is, to be unable to talk about things just because they have been (over)done (to death)
all you have left is digging up the past, scouring archived forums, only being able to listen but never speak

>>717870328 (OP)
you should but you shall not

the weak jorno fears the strong fan

>>717875741
>no collision
Yeah, that looks like a game modern audiences would call good

>>717877345
The problem is that modern Souls is a bad rhythm game. Miyazaki falls back on incredibly cheap tricks to make fights harder, because 'hard' is the thing Souls is known for, and for whatever reason the reaction they clearly dread more than anything is one of their games being viewed as 'too easy'. Cheap tricks like attack telegraph animations that all delay so you have no intuition when attacks will land, longer and longer combos, more and more AoE effects on every attack.

Boss fights used to be the highlight of Souls games, now they're just this weird, grotesque obligation that ALWAYS must be a flailing piece of shit that takes half your health bar with a single attack. The enemies are the worst part of Souls combat in ER, and why, no matter how cool ashes of war or stance breaks or any of that shit is, it can never be as fun as the basic bitch early days when you felt like enemies were playing by the same rules as you in DeS and DaS1.

>>717870328 (OP)
That boat already sailed, Elden Ring is already easy enough and normalfags love it.

>>717875926
>Rewards mastery and punishes lack of skill
Its a video game, you mouthbreathing retard. Nothing about it matters, has ever mattered, or will ever matter. Casual play, mastery play, literally zero difference because nothing that has ever been done in a video game is even slightly impressive. I love games, I spent hours and hours on them every day and even I would be ashamed to quote gaming statistics or accomplishments to other adult human beings like they matter. We all know they fucking don't.

Do it because it makes you happy, not to 'master' it. You master something constructive in the real world, games are literally just elaborate time wasters.

>>717870328 (OP)
I'm starting to agree with journos bros. I have soulslike fatigue.

>>717885509
>no collision
What the fuck are you talking about? Are you just using words you're vaguely aware are used when talking about games? The problem in that webm is magnet chain grabs, not a lack of collision. Everything has collision.

>>717870328 (OP)
Not everything has to be for everyone. Global homogenization is a cancer killing humanity.

>>717870328 (OP)
https://vargass.medium.com/elden-ring-has-the-best-difficulty-system-ever-created-936379428657

>>717887032
ER's difficulty balancing is genuinely horrific.

>>717887032
>calls demon's souls a monster-hunterlike
y'know gran turismo was a really good mario kartlike.

>>717879156
Nioh is the game that taught me just how bad my coordination really is. Even when I have a clear picture of what I want to do I always seem to fumble the inputs. It's frustrating too because the best results for me seem to come when I just do a souls style attack-block-retreat-wait for opening-repeat but the game seems like it has so much more to offer than that so I keep stubbornly trying to do fancier stuff anyway.

>>717870328 (OP)
>We have to be able to criticize Soulslike games
Generally speaking I agree. It's extremely retarded when you see perfectly valid criticism being deflected with "FILTERED REEEEEEEE". On the other hand Nightreign is probably the easiest Souls games so far, so "not all difficulty is good difficulty" is most likely a genuine case of being filtered.

>>717870328 (OP)
Tell that to xivcucks

>>717870328 (OP)
you can criticize souls and soulslike games
everyone that defends them is just gonna tell you it's a skill issue though and you have to accept that going in

>>717870328 (OP)
Been doing it since dark soles 2

>>717870328 (OP)
shitters shouldn't review games

>>717870328 (OP)
Filtered
Git gud
Suck a cock
Be a faggot

>>717870328 (OP)
Tell that to Excrement 33 cult members.

>>717870328 (OP)
You should.

Not about difficulty though. Kill all journalists and westerners. Thanks.

>>717870328 (OP)
The only one we're allowed to criticize is Dark Souls 2 because all the streamers said it's bad

>>717870328 (OP)
>game asks everyone to meet a minimum difficulty floor without exception
>THIS IS DISCRIMINATORY
why is it so hard for them to admit they're bad at video games? you dont even need to be "good" to beat a souls game.

>>717877609
>That perfect spacing and timing
All non-existent in Milds

>>717870328 (OP)
you can
and your criticism can be gay and retarded

>>717883448
Waterfowl can be canceled if Frost build up causes a flinch IIRC. The others not so much since they fly to unreachable locations where the attack can't be interrupted. As much as it sucks, it's clear they just want you to focus on just dodging those. Thankfully they don't spam those attacks too much.

>>717887207
monhun came first and established the "action rpg where you fight huge protracted boss battles" genre.

>>717870415
>shitty games are actually good because reddit told me they're hard
Kill yourself.

>>717889173
i hope "driftwood" gets its wish and kills itself.

>>717879536
You are correct, summoning was always bad even in 2009. But in 2009 it made more sense, you were helping others to get your body back. Dark Souls actually ruined the concept of death in Souls. Demon's Souls punished you for it much harder than any other game and they should have never taken that away. You should lose half your max HP and stamina too as well as MP. You should be punished for dying. There needs to be incentive to get your body back. Helping other players get their run complete to get your body back or be a redman is just a good system. Though you and them should have nerfed hp if they summon you just to give some extra challenge while still making things easier overall. Demon's Souls unironically had it right. It was every game after it that misunderstood the systems it had in place. We should have had the same system in DS1/2/3 and ER. Instead things went in another direction. It's like Miyazaki misunderstood what he had in 2009.

>>717886947
Souls is CoD levels of popular and influential now, though. It IS the current homogenizing force.

>>717892147
>good games are actually shitty because reddit told me they're hard
Kill yourself.

>>717883448
>PCR's meteor clone slam
Run
>Elden Beast's multi-ring
Jump it
>Metyr's laser
Run
>Bayle's fireball spam
Run
Waterfowl Dance is the only attack that requires you to act counterintuitively to fully avoid it when out of position.

>>717870328 (OP)
Why can't you? Games trying too hard to copy what works for actual Souls games fucking suck, the only exceptions being Lies of Pi and Wukong.

>>717870415
>Defending variable spin up animation times for the same attack
I love the aesthetic of every world in souls games but when i look at the gameplay and monster design my intuition yells at me "REDFLAG REDFLAG REDFLAG..."
No one will ever know this kind of pain i experience.

>>717870328 (OP)
Haven't we already seen plenty of
critics making shitty analysis videos of FromSoftware games for over a decade at this point?

>>717870328 (OP)
>Retards finally understand that Reused Software is not a good dev

>>717870328 (OP)
Valid criticism is HARD.
There's also way too many lazy fags 'criticizing' the games because they won't accommodate their laziness.
Seen this way too many times:
>I paid money for entertainment and I got filtered by totally unfair boss #3, can't play 80% of the game, NERF! NERF! NERF!

>>717887207
>>calls demon's souls a monster-hunterlike
that is correct

>>717886563
You throw the woman straight trough a man who then grabs you. In a real game there would be collision and the man would be staggered instead of grabbing you

>>717870328 (OP)
There's two sides to this.
Rabid fans screeching GIT GUD, completely ignoring even valid criticism because in their heads anyone who dislikes any aspect of the game must be a scrub.
Shitty players who want 'street cred' for beating 'hard games' but can't be arsed to put in some effort.
It's not easy to find balance in all this.

>>717894943
>the games because they won't accommodate their laziness
That's not always a good thing though. Like for example that godawful relic gacha — you can say "it doesn't accommodate player's laziness", because you can always just grind more and gacha more. And if you still haven't got your perfect roll after 300h of grinding — you can't just stop being lazy and grind for another 300h.
When I see someone defending this mechanics — I know it's impossible to have a reasonable conversation with that person.

>>717874852
The architecture isn't even theirs anymore.

>>717870328 (OP)
I disagree.
Nobody should be allowed to criticize Ape Escape.

It's literally a perfect 10 out of 10 game.

>>717870328 (OP)
>Criticize soulslike games
YES! They're lazy and the action mechanics are badly designed and-
>Whining about difficulty
oh. Opinion discarded

>>717894659
There is an entire Youtube community that has arisen in the past couple of years seething that anyone on the internet has ever criticized DS2.

Makes me so glad I haven't played it desu.

>>717870328 (OP)
Anyone who's played Souls games is allowed to criticize them. Fortunately, this rules out 100% of game journalists and 80% of /v/.

>>717895429
'Prepare to die' and its consequences have been a disaster for video game criticism.

>>717870658
Mohg is an excellent boss (minus the required physick being hidden in bumfuck nowhere) who turns into a genuinely unenjoyable experience if you summon due to how schizo his target switching is. I fought him in co-op the first time, solo later, and was shocked at how much less frustrating it was to learn his moveset when I went at it alone.
Fromsoft has added some great ways to dial back boss difficulty for those who want to in the past, particularly with stuff like Sekiro's prosthetic tools, but summons have always been more of a band-aid solution that returns inconsistent results at best and actively hinders your progress at worst.

>>717895150
>gacha
I thought we were talking about REAL games.
Sorry couldn't help it.
Yes, unreasonably long grind is a bother no matter how much no-life NEETS and autismos claim otherwise.

I just hate how the roll input is on the uppress of the button.
it feels awkward for when these roll timings need to be precise.

>>717895345
What do you expect when there has been a decade long opinion born from of one video that is mindlessly parroted by almost everyone who didn't like the game.

>>717882198
I feel that "git gud" has lost its way somewhat.
While it always carried its main connotation, it used to also serve as advice that there wasn't some hidden mechanic to a boss and the answer really was just to practice and improve. Nowadays, at least on /v/, it tends to be used as a substitute for being helpful even in cases where there are other useful pointers that could help someone improve. For example:
>for Guardian Ape, flame vent is better than firecrackers
>Gascoigne's third phase is weak as hell to molotovs
>backstabbing Martyr Logarius during his phase change weakens him in phase 2
>almost all attacks in Elden Ring that produce shockwaves along the ground should be jumped over
>when Malenia is passive in phase 1, her AI decides whether to counterattack once you get within a certain distance and if she doesn't make a move when you're close you can safely take a swing
>Consort Radahn's meteors can always be dodged by sprint-jumping to the side
>Bell Bearing Hunter, Midra, and Radagon are much easier with parries
Not saying you shouldn't mock someone if they refuse to improve, but you can give them a nudge first to see if they're willing to try or not.

>>717870328 (OP)
Imagine being such a thin-skinned bitch that you'd allow performative gaymers to bully you into submission.

>>717896014
I just feel embarrassed to have ever been a Souls enjoyer at this point.

>>717870328 (OP)
There's plenty to criticize. The problem is journos all have absolute dogshit takes on what to criticize.

>>717871514
>the genre is cooked because casuals want the kind of boss design that made it popular instead of requiring people to memorize pic related

>>717879451
Lies of P has a parry system, which changes the dynamic drastically since you can turn their offense into your own. Laxasia (the best base game boss) has a perfect example of this with the lightning bolts you can deflect into her face. In Elden Ring you have to either attack into a blender until you find a mid-combo opening or wait until the boss says you're allowed to go.

>>717870328 (OP)
>You should be able to criticize ANY game regardless of how rabid the fan base is

Agreed.

>>717884698
Since the other anon is being an unhelpful nigger, I'll tell you the ones I know.
>Waterfowl Dance
You can cancel it with a frost pot or with a bleed proc if you're lucky, and can hit her legs with a jump attack during startup if you're very fast or don't mind tanking damage. If that doesn't work you can hit her as the final flurry ends. Waterfowl's still bullshit though.
>Consort meteor clones
No idea, that one's pretty much just a time-waster.
>Elden Beast rings
I've seen magic builds snipe the beast with Loretta arrows while it flies upward. You also get an opening right after the attack, particularly if you use Torrent to close distance.
>Bayle fireballs
Pretty much another time-waster unless you maybe get extremely lucky with a Loretta shot.
I can't deny ER has too many "wait around and dodge" attacks, but hopefully at least some of this will be useful.

>>717872303
How can anyone possibly struggle with rhythm games? All you do is push arrows. They show you the ones coming up in advance so retards can beat it without thinking much. How?

>>717870328 (OP)
As long as you understand what you're talking about, sure.

>>717870328 (OP)
We've been criticizing soulslike games for well over a decade. Who is this article for?

>>717875083
Author is black and the article is poorly written and argued as expected of a black person. I'm not a racist. It's just something I've noticed with all the DEI black gaming journos.

>>717872303
Casual players tend to avoid rolling because they think it's risky, so they stick with turtling behind a shield which of course gets them stamina broken to death. They don't understand how strong rolling is in these games.

>>717874503
Yeah, that pretty much covers it. You see the same issue on /v/ where someone will say a game can't be criticized simply because its fans don't agree with them repeatedly insisting the game is bad.

>>717870328 (OP)
Why are journalists so obsessed with the Souls games? You'd think modern gaming began with this series at this point with how much these fuckers talk about Souls.

>>717875083
>the response has been primarily "get good"
Simon from E33 is stupidly hard, more so than any Elden Ring boss by far, unless you oneshot him out of existence before he does the same to you. I've heard lazier uses of git gud in defense of his shit-tier balancing than I have for any game Fromsoft has made.

>>717877609
>Demon's Souls
Cutting Maneater's tail cripples its moveset
>Dark Souls
Tail cuts from the bridge dragon, Priscilla, Kalameet, Seath.

I know you're referring to how you should approach bosses in combat but part breaking was cool and added another layer to just fighting a boss until it dies.

>>717870328 (OP)
>we have to be able to criticize soulslike games
well yeah, you're allowed to-
>not all difficulty is good difficulty
oh, so that's what this is about

Hollow Knight has perfect bosses. All except for 1: Grey Prince Zote.
Why? Because it's the only boss that actively attempts to throw you off of your rhythm with awkward timings and fake-outs. It's a boss that's built around deception on a meta level. It knows what the player's instincts are, and actively attempts to use that against you.

For Elden Ring, half of the bosses and enemies in the game are like Zote. They're deceptive on a meta level, with a bunch of unintuitive fake-outs and awkward timings. So the bosses aren't really fun to learn. Even when you learn the bosses, you just realize you learned a bunch of bullshit cheap tactics. It doesn't feel rewarding when you win. You're just like "ugh, finally".

>>717879536
In terms of NPC summoning, i like how Demon's Souls did it as a rare quest reward, only for the Penetrator boss fight, which wasn't hard to begin with.

in Dark Souls, for those that never summon other players, once you've made the choice to enter a boss fog gate without summoning an NPC, you cant change your mind - mid fight.
Ds1 even required you to use a humanity upon deaths.
Elden Ring on the other hand? for the kind of noob player that always have their summoning bell on their hotbar, there is a very real temptation to *dingding ~ summon their meat shield of choice, at the first sign they start to get their ass kicked by the boss.

Having it so that the choice needs to be made before facing the boss is better practice.

>>717870913
>link the article
Delete yourself

>>717898401
Wrong
Git gud

>>717881325
Is Elden Ring really this bad? Seen dozens of webms at this point. Showing its many problems with cheap AI.

>>717896652
i've beaten PCR on five different builds and NG+ and never looked at a flowchart once.
miserable bloody boss but if a tard like me can do it then anyone can.

Regardless of DS2's overall quality as a game,
i did like how they were more experimental in regards to Boss-Arena design;

Lost Sinner's arena is dark.. you cant lock-on easily, so you have to pass through a flooded passage filled with the most dangerous enemy type in the game; one that fucks over your gear's durability when hit. ..to balance them; you can 1 shot them even with the weakest throwing knifes.
At the end of this passge, provided you have a key, you can illuminate the boss room, but even then they don't spoonfeed you. ( unless of course, you spoil yourself by the online messages )

other examples of unique interactions with boss arena's;
>burning the windmill to drain Mythra's poison
>sniping the cage to lure the Covetous demon with a corpse snack ( not neccecary due to how easy it is )
>dealing with all the curse avatars so that Fume Knight's arena is now free of boss-healing aura's
>obtain a key item to make the snow tiger boss visible
>activate all four Loyce Knights to create a fellowship against the forces of chaos

These days its 'no fun allowed, with the storm-ruler expy being the one exception.

>>717870328 (OP)
Git gud

>>717899690
>i did like how they were more experimental in regards to Boss-Arena design;
They weren't
>Lost Sinner'
Is a shit boss fight
>>burning the windmill to drain Mythra's poison
>>sniping the cage to lure the Covetous demon with a corpse snack ( not neccecary due to how easy it is )
>>dealing with all the curse avatars so that Fume Knight's arena is now free of boss-healing aura's
>>obtain a key item to make the snow tiger boss visible
>>activate all four Loyce Knights to create a fellowship against the forces of chaos
All shit bosses

>>717870913
>Linking the article
absolute state of this board

>>717899690
Pulling a lever before a boss does not make it interesting
Dark Souls 2 bosses are awful boring dudes in armor swinging weapons at the same timing and pace

>>717895345
DS2 is a good game, that probably has about as many flaws as every other Souls, that people have been shitting on from day one, for very flaky reasons.
>muh genius Miyazaki didn't make it!
Okay, sure. Does he have to make every video game?

>>717900497
>DS2 is a good game,
Nope
>that probably has about as many flaws as every other Souls
You secondaries are hilarious

>>717870328 (OP)
People do criticize Souls games. From reuse of assets to uninspired bosses.

The problem is you're crying about it being "too hard" like a little bitch.

>>717900795
I've played Demon's Souls. It's a very rough early attempt.
I've played Dark Souls. It's still a pretty rough game, and the last few areas aren't fantastic.
I've played DS3 and Elden Ring, and the whole thing felt tired by that point.
I've played Bloodborne, and it's locked at like 20fps.
What specifically is supposed to be so terrible about DS2? I had loads of fun playing it.

>>717870328 (OP)
The criticism;
>we are bad at the game
>therefore its the games fault, make it easier
until all games have mandatory, high quality hard modes they can fuck off.

>>717894296
>you see, this super powerful god whos trying to kill me needs to behave like an NPC robot who uses the same pattern over and over
>its not okay for that enemy to actually try and kill me by switching up the patterns as they would if this were real

>>717871287
learn to parry?
learn to weave under their swings and hit them mid combo?
stop waiting for a window, make a window

retard.

>>717884413
yeah im not sure why people STILL discuss this
Elden ring had like 20 incredible cheese builds you can make in just a few hours of starting yet we STILL had
>make it easier
>I dont want to summon

you can make a double bleed dagger build within the first 10 minutes. That carries you for 80+ hours alone.

>>717874852
music is mid too since yuka kitamura got to it making it generic movie orchestra bs. ER has hands down the worst ambient music i've ever heard in a video game. Souls games only have art, literally style over substance.

>>717901176
pathetic! i don't even know what kind of point you're trying to make here

>>717875163
what if my build doesn't have any of that, retard? This is an rpg, not "collect every ability in the game - vania", it's supposed to work with BASIC character toolkit.

>>717876693
Okarina of time sucks balls now, and has objectively nothing to offer to anyone who played at least 20 games, yet it's widely regarded as the best game of all time

>>717877749
>what is this hypothetical action game where you never learn patterns

The thing Soulslop ripped off - Monster Hunter

>>717900916
>I've played DS3 and Elden Ring, and the whole thing felt tired by that point
Because you are a secondary
>What specifically is supposed to be so terrible about DS2?
Everything it does it does wrong, from level design to enemy design. Your praise is hollow and the game is trash. No, burning a windmill to remove poison does not make a shit boss interesting. Dark Souls 2 is tired and bland, with the constant feeling of samey bosses and bland corridors
Dark Souls 2 needed desperately an engine that would alter and diversify enemy hit reaction, and a more dynamic combat where both player and enemies would attack more and interrupt each other.
Dark Souls 2 is a bastard middle child with genes of retardation, even in the rare case where a map develope vertically, it somehow manages to make zero use of it because it is more concerned with placing dudes conveniently petrified right before passages and chests

>>717870328 (OP)
>your weapon hits a wall mid swing
>it gets cancelled
>enemy does it
>it just clips through geometry and still hits you
genuinely want a fromdrone to defend this

>>717877810
>build your character
Looking up a guide on where all the best items are placed and which stats to level isn't YOU getting gut, anon, it's you being a loser

>>717901738
yawwwn

>>717901786
Nothing to defend, it's intended and good behaviour. Only people who notoce are mad they can't cheese enemies around corners

>OP with nothing in it but a jpg
>thread hits bump limit

retards

>>717870328 (OP)
The only good Dark Souls game was DS1, all the 2 and 3 sucked ass , especially 3 ,particularly because they were all about le difficulty meme

>>717879736
>no that's coping with being weaker than the boss
Promised consort who you literally can't be stronger than:
Having a good build is a bug, not a feature. You are playing the game wrong by deleting the bosses with your meta knowledge lol

>>717879536
This is a take from someone who got scared of summoning because his 4chan friends told him he can't get the you completed the game checkmark if they telepatically find out you used summons. Now from a person who wants to play the game and not be stuck on a boss for 2 weeks and who uses summons let me tell you how summons are in the game. You try to summon, the boss charges and kills you or you are succesful in summoning and the summon does fuck all while the boss targets you now with more hp and dmg because From was so afraid of not having a "hard game" that they lobotomised summons. So no, the game is not easier with summons and its because of this fucking retarded dick measuring contest

>>717882237
>monster hunter gen 2 veteran
It's easier than 3ds slop lololol you can delete a g-rank narga in 3 minutes with zero skill by using a basic flame light bowgun.

>>717901923
>using the environment and employing tactics beyond "roll m1 roll m1 roll m1" is cheesing
fromsoft games really are for morons huh

>>717901990
They're not even hard

>>717901395
Being able to bypass bad design with cheese isn't a sign of good design. If anything the fact that so many people advocate for using blatantly unbalanced cheese builds to bypass large sections of the game just shows how widespread this bad design is and how accepting Souls fans are of it.

It's like the opposite of Nioh's discussion. No one defends Nioh 1's boss gank squads and no one says that the cheesy one shot builds that arose to counter them as a good solution. The devs acknowledged both of these as problems and fixed both in Nioh 2, and pretty much everyone agrees the game is much better designed than 1.

>>717901176
>this super powerful god whos trying to kill me
...can't hit me when I am rolling around on a floor like a circus midget!

This combat formula is too gay, retarded, and radiating an intense ludonarrative dissonance for contextual arguments like this to matter. Completely arbitrary rules of it are constantly shoved into the player's face, and therefore, it can't be perceived as a part of narrative, only as a pure technical game.

>>717901923
It would've been good behaviour it worked like that for enemies as well.

>>717882610
>That sounds like complete shit.
It is. It's a humiliation simulator. Basically in the same lane as cuck porn VNs. It came from Japan, after all.

>/v/ hates From Software and Soulslikes
>/v/ hates Expedition 33
>/v/ hates the Devil May Cry franchise
>3/4 of the catalog is about gacha games

It really makes you think.

>>717902406
>>717902173
Git gud

>>717902173
Fans of those games believe, that those games are "hardcore" because they force players to memorize the exact roll button press timings for all animations, and that's what the whole game and its process is about. Which is why they hate builds that have high dps or ranged attacks - those prevent you from "interacting with moveset", which means you didn't even PLAY the game.
I was thinking about what leads them to this retarded reasoning, and it seems that the answer is From software not just selling mediocre 3d action games with very good visuals, they are also selling an identity of "hardcore gamer" that relies on memorizing animations of all AI dummies.

>>717883448
Of those only Watefowl is truly a crapshot

>>717902550
>no argument
Figures

>>717902519
gacha games are made by younglings who actually played good vidiya and not retarded old fucks who only played NES. Of course they are going to have objectively fucking better game design. Ofc Genshin fixes every single open world issue that ever existed. How is that a surprise that guys who played prime ps2 make better games than absolute madman that made original S mario 2(now known as the lost levels)?

Every single souls slop sequel isn't a sequel, it's a "lost levels" - game directly seeing working things in previous game and actively ruining them to make them harder

>>717902623
waterfowl you at least understand, what PCR's clones even do? I still don't get it

>>717902589
>they are also selling an identity of "hardcore gamer" that relies on memorizing animations of all AI dummies
Oh absolutely. Their biggest strength is making people feel better at games than they really are. It's funny that people make fun of Sekiro for being a glorified rhythm game when it's just a souls game but the enemy animations make sense.

>>717870328 (OP)
> crys about not being able to criticize shit
> criticizes shit

Are these journalist retarded? Nobody has ever said they cannot criticize shit. This ain't the UK. You got freedom of speech here in the US.

>Not all difficulty is a good difficulty

Most souls player will disagree with him. That doesn't mean he can't criticize it. In fact, he's doing just that.
Is he looking for people to agree with him? Is that what this entire shit is? Fuck these shitty journalist hacks.

>>717870328 (OP)
Translation from sleazy leftoid speak into plain English: Nobody should be allowed to tear my retarded opinion apart. But I still get to tear your perfectly reasonable opinions to shreds for stupid reasons and get you banned from life for having them.

If you believe that every game needs to be built around some e-whore who's taking a writing gig complaining about gamers while pretending to love videogames, you can fuck right off. The market for challenging games is huge, and it's been underserviced. It shouldn't be shoved into some little low budget niche corner because some game journos have trouble with it and this upsets them.

>>717875517
Ninja Gaiden is kino, you just got filtered

>>717870328 (OP)
Whining about how hard it is is not a valid form of criticism for any game. Only retarded shitters(like game journos) think otherwise.
>>717870415
fpbp

>>717886416
Sissy take tbqfvh

>>717903328
What kind of baboon logic is that? Ask me how i know you have a manifesto? Your opinion is just as retarded and valid as his is. zi don't understand this houlier than thou attitudine of some of you fuckers. Nobody ia trying to get your worthless achievements away, even if i wish the very loud minority of souls like games should be taken down a few pegs because you guys are fucking annoying as shit. You are not the victim here, or if you really want to be a victim so badly just treat this like your shitty souls games, rise up to the "challenge". The hardcore game corner is niche because it spawns retards like you who can't help themselves start shit wherever they go over how hard their games are. The journos are perfectly balancing your retardation. 2 sides of the same coin fighting a battle so unimportant that people on the sidelines can't even distinguish between the two of you. Its literally the same as the chuds vs trannies argument. Mentally ill people fighting each other

>>717903667
Holy crash out

>>717870658
>Boss seems a little overtuned when it's by myself
>Ring bell
>Becomes the easiest shit ever
There's no in between

Dark Souls 1 is one of the objectively worst video games of all time. It's not even 1/10, it's a genuine 0/10.
Every single element of its design that you can isolate and criticize is absolute dogshit that should be taught in college courses as examples of things not to do when designing a video game.
Like, the things where if you die in a boss fight, you don't respawn in a boss fight, you respawn 30 minutes away and have to run like a headless chicken, avoiding all the respawned trash mobs - this is the opposite of a video game. Any not-mentally-ill person would instantly uninstall and refund the game upon encountering it, any competent critic would ridicule it, any competent company would fire whoever came up with this idea, force them to make a public apology, and blacklist them from the industry.
And it's not an exception, it's a rule, EVERYTHING about Dark Souls 1 is equally awful:
0/10 dogshit combat system.
0/10 dogshit RPG system.
0/10 dogshit level design.
0/10 dogshit art direction and graphics.
0/10 dogshit story and lore.

I genuinely do not see soulsfags as people. Basically, if the Lord of the Rings universe had video games, Dark Souls would be a game designed by Sauron for orcs, and they would love it because they're ontologically evil monsters that revel in everything bad, ugly, and wrong, while hating everything right, just, and beautiful.

>>717903772
>haha I destroyed that boss, onto the next one!
Maybe you should play actually hard games instead of larping with self imposed challenges

>>717886416
>t. bad at games and life

>>717901176
>dodge gives you i-frames that lets you magically teleport through attacks
Just like if it were real

>>717871940
>arguing with retards
Normalfags and turd worlders being the majority on the internet ruined any sort of discourse, especially since video games are mainstream

>>717901176
Don't try to make this argument about the YOU ARE LE WEAK KNIGHT!!!! game

>>717903814
Obvious bait.

I have to say, ER excels in many things, but introduced some of the most bullshit bosses due to its sheer size and need for diversificarion. In Dark Souls I could rage at dying for the humpteenth time, but I knew it was my fault. Some of ERs bosses are so tedius it's incredible how they're part of the main storyline.

Also, people who complain about roll spamming simply have a lower threshold for suspension of disbelief. Yes, a better mechanic can and should be created, but this one works to a certain degree narritively and to almost perfection mechanically. Can it become boring sometimes? Yes. It depends on the person. So yes, every game should be criticized. I'll enjoy my game without identifying with it.

>>717886416
you can brag about games to people who play them, same as with anything else unless you are a complete mouthbreathing retard (which you sound like)

>>717904038
Git gud

>>717870552
but Radahn is an easy earlygame boss

Gitting gud was cool in the 80s.
Gitting gud was cool in the 90s.
Gitting gud was cool in the 00s regardless of whether corpos understood that. The dominance of hypercasualized games was carried by the fact that only those games were allowed to have contemporary graphics, and that was the peak of graphics hype.
Gitting gud is still cool in the 2020s.
Gitting gud will still be cool in the 2120s.

>>717895061
>the man would be staggered instead of grabbing you
The man was locked into a punch animation, he wasn't grabbing. The enemies do have collision bumping into each other, which you can see from the kick at the start here. They just pull the hitboxes in tight for a lot of things because with the amount of enemies on screen, things would be a clusterfuck if they had Dark Souls sized collision and hitboxes. Try playing games instead of shitposting about them.

>>717906695
Your buzzword was never cool. Actual effort and people playing games is cool. You stupid movement of treating people like shit for not buying the stupid rules you and your cult like group agreed upon is just extremely gay. Go fuck yourself and your whole shitty movement.

>>717907041
Git gud

>>717906695
Define "git gud".
If it's anywhere close to definition of "Pavlovian conditioning", well, no comments.

>>717907139
The souls player to npc pipeline is insane

>>717870328 (OP)
Can Jazz Stewart do the Cuphead tutorial at least on the same level of these vtubers?
https://youtu.be/Xx6XUFllIO8?t=519

>>717907197
It means that instead of being a worthless bitch crying and moaning because a game forces you to interface with mechanics you aren't used to you drop the shitter mentality and learn

>>717903814
Did Miyazaki rape your mother or something?

>>717907324
Learn what?

>>717870328 (OP)
Difficult is the point the game.
Learn and don't be a bitch.

>>717907197
Becoming skilled. Reaching competent levels of play at a difficult game. Even better if you reach high levels.

It's the most self-explanatory term ever and you're arguing in bad faith.

>>717907393
He probably means you need to learn the rules set by the cult in which you get to be worthy of being part of the group. Souls games surely did not enforce these rules because they added a lot of ways to actually customise your difficilty. "Git gud" is the new "i have no argument but you suck because i say so".

>>717907347
He won't possibly do that, he's a dedicated pederast.

>>717907513
>He probably means you need to learn the rules set by the cult in which you get to be worthy of being part of the group.
All you people do is project.

>>717907393
I told you. Learn the mechanics of a game and what the game expects you to master so you stop being a shitter with a worthless "critique" from ignorance

Who is telling you that you can't? The hordes of people who hate these games and want their identity ripped apart are the majority with the force of the entire gaming """"media"""" behind it.

>>717907279
And now that I've gotten that off my chest, I need to go dilate.

>>717903814
>0/10 dogshit level design.
>0/10 dogshit art direction and graphics.
>0/10 dogshit story and lore.
No one in the world sincerely believes this

>>717872186
>flies above the arena for an extended time (you just kind of run sideways for a bit to "dodge" until he comes back down)
>burrows under the ground (it's not even an attack you just have to wait)
>does a long AoE attack with no chance of actually hitting you unless you intentionally walk into it

>>717907720
DSP, probably.

>>717907510
>Becoming skilled
After learning mechanics and knowing how the game works and what's possible in it, I now see methods to solve it.
For example I make a build with a fingerprint shit and thrusting weapon and dumpster the whole game by holding one button and pressing one button.
By definitions that you've provided, I am now gud.

Yet for some reason, you are going to start crying, whining, and shitting yourself if you see this, as if I committed some atrocious profanation on your whole fandom. So, shall I write that down as you refusing to give correct definitions, or you simply being unable to?

>>717907767
>>717907634

>>717907634
Or you could plan your build in such a way to destroy enemies easily
Or you could activate a cheat and enjoy the scenery and models
Or you could do a run in which you try to buff the summons and let them fight everything
You don't know what the game expects of you because the game is not sentient..there is no expectations to be met. Whatever makes you enjoy the experience more is favourable. This is why i accuse you of being a cult. The struggle seems to be the only way you know how to function

>>717907861
>Or you could activate a cheat and enjoy the scenery and models
This point is retarded. The game cannot expect you to use an external software to enjoy it in its base form.

>>717907767
>Yet for some reason, you are going to start crying, whining, and shitting yourself if you see this
False, disingenuous premise.
Nobody cares. Your desire to break and bruteforce the game is your own spiteful reaction to feeling gatekeeping from others through denial to accomodate game design to your preferences

>>717870328 (OP)
You are able to criticize them. There being backlash to your criticism doesn't mean that you aren't able to voice it. That's the beauty of freedom of speech, you are free to voice your opinion and others are free to shit on it.

obese mentally ill autist thread

>>717907760
DSP loves Dark Souls. He's literally done 3 separate playthroughs of it. What people don't understand about DSP is that, while he'll shit on a game in the heat of the moment, his overall take will almost always be measured and correct. He even loves MGS

>>717870328 (OP)
>hard hitting criticism
>open article
>"its too hard"
mutts shouldn't be allowed to post let alone criticize anything

What is it with kids and thinking difficulty in a game is a real life accomplishment?

>>717883448
>Metyr's laser
Not enough people talk about this one, but there is a place on the field where only one laser can hit you, it's just outside of circle zone under Metyr. So you dodge through the laser (or face tank it) and you charge long range spell like lightning spear or madness laser, the second laser is going on top of your head, and you had enough time to dodge the first laser when it goes full circle.

>>717907969
>Your desire to break and bruteforce
How am I "breaking" anything by using tools within the game? I am pretty sure it still works as intended, there is no manipulation of internal processes going on under the hood, they still work as devs programmed them.
Maybe the game just has a low effort balance and devs that don't give a fuck, if some playstyles feel like breaking it.

>>717907949
The game doesn expect anything because it has no expectations..its not alive. Yes i also pretend and joke around with my friends that they are a shitter if they use cheats but at the end of the day i don't care enough to not sleep at night. At some point some retards saw this kind of an argument and actually internalised it to such a degree that it became their way of life. I can jokely call you an asshole for using cheats and then talk about something else not affecting my relationship with you. I can actually respect a person that finds ways, even outside ways yo enjoy a game that is not made for them or their skill level. That means they invested in that game enough as to do anything to finish it or enjoy it

>>717907861
>Suffering
You just keep projecting, just like you project having no fun.

>>717870328 (OP)
Then present valid criticism instead of whining about the lack of an easy mode and then crying about people calling you a pussy

>>717908180
>Deflection + spiteful reaction
I accept your concession

>>717908345
>Deflection
Deflection of what exactly?

>spiteful reaction
Projecting much? Read my post and replies to them, and tell me again that I am spiteful here.

>>717908187
Why you keep projecting and assuming how people behind a screen feel after gatekeeping retarded tourists out of their series?

>>717875083
>Nightreign should have skill-based matchmaing
Fuck you, no, no it should not. Any such complaint comes from people who don't enjoy Souls coop and Nightreign is refined, distilled, Souls coop. Fuck OFF, the game is great and the only thing it could benefit from would be more map seeds/bosses.

You're not allowed to criticize a game if it's beatable. Doesn't matter how poorly designed it is.

>>717908187
>The game doesn expect anything because it has no expectations..its not alive
The game was made by living people with an expectation that you'd play it with the tools they put in the game.

>>717870328 (OP)
You shouldn’t criticize ANY game
Because you are a faggot

I don't think anyone enjoys spending multiple hours on one boss learning all their arbitrary bullshit. A good boss has animations that are READABLE and REACTABLE. If you're trying to figure out when the bosses windup is done instead of leaving yourself free to react to the actual move itself, it's a bad boss.

>>717908109
Small pp

>>717879536
This would only be true if Souls games had tight mechanical design and were fun and hard. Sekiro actually fits that bill, and it doesn't have summons. ER bosses in particular are just bad, regardless of how much retards want to pretend their triple backflip feint slash that does a minimum of 75% of your health makes them great and complicated fights.

>>717908429
>Deflection of what
Of the fact that your entire argument is based on the retarded assumption people care about you, instead of laughing at you
>Projecting much?
Nah. You are making up this I AM SILLY meme about some dude losing his sleep about how you play the game. You can selectively search and chettypick the best gear and combination of elements to make a lot of threats easier, or even summon some dude soloing the boss. The game doesn't care, the developers don't care, we don't care.
The only one who cares is you, you are extremely butthurt you are barren from engaging in a satisfying manner, and the one demanding change in the first place, which is also why your posts reek of projection

>>717896781
>Laxasia (the best base game boss)
Laxasia fucking sucked

>>717908821
>if Souls games had tight mechanical design and were fun and hard.
They are
>Sekiro actually fits that bill
It's easy easier than at least half of them, and leas interesting
>and it doesn't have summons.
So you went through the Souls series by summoning or do you just use this as made up argument to disparage Souls games?
>ER bosses in particular are just bad, regardless of how much retards want to pretend their triple backflip feint slash that does a minimum of 75% of your health makes them great and complicated fights.
Sounds like you got filtered

>>717908834
>barren
*Barred

>>717870328 (OP)
The criticism you clowns parrot about Elden Ring are almost all disingenuous as fuck. Especially the ones about difficulty since these games are tailor made to be as hard or as easy as you want them to be.

Soulsclones however are all a mess, not a single one understands what they're copying or why it works.

>>717897524
There is also the roll backwords problem, since most people didn't play bloodborne they'll roll back which most bosses in ER are designed to catch compared to rolling forward or to the side.

>>717896781
>Lies of P has a parry system, which changes the dynamic drastically since you can turn their offense into your own.
Sounds like boring Sekiro game design where you just stand still and press the parry button and the game is just rhythm check

>>717909045
>Soulsclones however are all a mess
Lies of P, Lords of the Fallen 2023, and Nioh 2 (Nioh 1 sucks though) are all good. They're not perfect and are still a tier below Fromsoft, but they're still solid games in their own right

>>717870328 (OP)
But you can, you just have to give constructive criticism with facts and not opinions. For example
>Sekiro is the best "soulslike".
>Elden Ring DLC was dogshit and unfinished.
>The genre is oversaturated and needs to be put aside for a few years or else it will die just like car games in the 2000s, zombie games in 2010s, rpgs in the 90s, platformers in the 80s etc.

>>717897679
The reason is because Demon's Souls and it's sequels all shit all over UX and Western gaming conventions said journalists have been championing for decades. They're mere existence proves journalists are full of shit

>>717870328 (OP)
we're not?

>>717870328 (OP)
you should be able to criticize ANY game journalist regardless of how excessive their blackrock funding is

>>717873056
>Wow this game puts way too much emphasis on hitting headshots, there should be more RPG elements to balance it out
That would make it a better game, yes.

>>717909160
never forget.

>>717870328 (OP)
Souls is the best thing to happen to the modern game industry, it created a parallel market of gamers who really enjoy difficulty and completely filtered the brain dead retards who couldn't adapt. Now you have this never ending flood of difficult games that sell well while this bitch audience cries from the sidelines about souls ruining games for them. They could just continue playing their "comfy" jrpgs, arpgs and movie games but it bothers them that everyone else is having more fun which they can't access

>>717908834
>engaging in a satisfying manner
Yes, here it is. Looks like we've found the most important part. You didn't want to talk about it.

What's satisfying to you? Being trained like Pavlov's dog to press dodge button upon seeing the correct animation state? I don't feel like it's satisfying, especially once you looks back at what you just did. I've tried that "gameplay" in encounters where it feels acute, and upon "winning" in such way the main reaction was "thank god that shit is over" and "what am i doing with my finite life span".
If your reaction is not that but "oh my god I'm such a HVRDCORE GVMER for memorizing all moves!" instead, then the lack of ability to reflect may imply autism. There is nothing good about autism. Terrible disease that results in ugly mental deficiencies.

>>717880646
>You are defining sandbox purely as just games without plotlines to them
No? Caves of Qud has a strictly defined plotline, Kenshi has a loosely defined plotline, Elona/Elin have a somewhat loosely defined plotline and so on, the difference is that these games hardly ever force you into anything and the focus is in their raw mechanics rather than stringent questlines and interactions like BG3, and unlike BG3 all of these have fully interactive worlds, not just a couple of barrels and scripted props while everything else ignores whatever magic nuke you unleash in there, because BG3 is not a sandbox game nor was it ever marketed as such.
If I use a E-Nuke grenade in CoQ I delete EVERYTHING on screen that isn't off-phase, if I use Fireball in BG3 the best it does outside of hurting NPCs is break some barrels and crates while the rest of the environment remains immaculate, if I so choose I can dig an entire mine's worth of tunnels anywhere in Elona as soon as I get a pickaxe, BG3 doesn't let me do any of this because it's not relevant to its story, in CDDA I can do whatever the fuck I want and go wherever I want at all times while BG3 doesn't want me to do anything but its linear storyline and so on.
A sandbox is a game focused on its intrinsic mechanics and freedom to do almost anything one can think of without anybody telling you that you actually have to look at some issue with tiefling refugees now or telling you you can only play with barrels and cooking pots.

Conversely, Souls or Elden Ring are not really focused on any of that "think like an adventurer" bullshit which is just something a DS2 schizo parrots to prop a shit game, they're simple dungeon crawlers with some minor puzzle gimmicks and interactions, they never pretended otherwise.
Is it lame that my fireballs can't open up all those wooden doors in ER? Sure it is, but I can say the same about a lot of BG3, and BG3 actually makes those interactions a selling point.

>>717909045
>Soulsclones however are all a mess, not a single one understands what they're copying or why it works.
Lords of the fallen 2023 has better Dark Souls level design than any From Software game from Dark Souls 2 onward.

>>717902126
I don't use bowgun

>>717909460
All 30 million people who bought Elden Ring have autism?

dark souls isnt hard until a boss fight and then the boss fight is just memorizing every single attack animation
why does your build matter in the slightest if the bosses just train you to avoid all damage by the time you finally beat it? why invest in vitality or certain armor?

its fucking dumb. almost any enemy in the entire game dies to R1 R1 R1 R1 R1. what a legendary and difficult game franchise! definitely harder than zelda where you hold L and mash B.
because zelda games dont make you play simon says with the boss fights.

>>717908109
It's a cope mechanism due to lack of achievements in real life

>>717870328 (OP)
Too many bad soulslikes coming out.
I'm looking at literally everything from China in the last 2 years.
If it were up to me, only Team Ninja would be permitted to make soulslikes.
From obviously owns the genre so there's no debate there.
But all the other slop can go into the trash where it belongs. No amount of anime tits or chinese asses are going to change my mind in a genre where gameplay is king.

>>717908801
>I don't think anyone enjoys spending multiple hours on one boss learning all their arbitrary bullshit. A good boss has animations that are READABLE and REACTABLE
Believe it or not, I've seen actual from drones who claimed that purely reaction and based encounter design that an observant player with good reaction times will clear with no issues is bad, because it's an "easy rhythm game". Apparently the player arbitrarily loosing few times no matter how familiar he is with general gameplay, because he's unfamiliar with this particular enemy, is the most important part, and if you make a game without this, it will be a bad game by definition.

>>717909731
Dark Souls is primarily a build-based game. Its skill-based elements are secondary

>>717909768
>t. filtered by Lies of P

>>717883448
>Metyr's laser
To fully dodge it? Turn on a hitbox viewer and slow the games speed by 50%, that should do it if you're light rolling or better. or use certain ashes of war to dodge it. fuck the laser, metyr is awesome but that move just sucks.

>>717909460
Now you are projecting your inexperience and ignorance of game mechanics to others

>>717909768
I liked Code Vein and have played through it twice. The skills-based combat made it feel different. You'll suck at the game if you try to play it like it's Dark Souls.

Was it a legendary game? No. But it was still a good game.

>>717909460
I have never killed a boss slow enough to memorize half its moveset

>>717909731
thats my point, the simon says boss fights ruin the decision making of a build in the rpg. the boss fights have such tight dodge windows that your hp doesnt matter, your armor doesnt matter, the weapon you choose doesnt matter
if you are not taking damage because you have mastered a boss fight and completely memorized it, then you dont need to choose a build. you arent taking damage and you are dealing as much damage as you need
even with bare fists.

>>717909890
Lies of P is a 5$ Walmart DVD bin pickup for brain damaged gamers who want more Bloodborne no matter the cost. A real faustian bargain that doesn't do anyone any favors.
>>717909918
>Weebslop
>Coomslop
Like I don't even need to say anything else desu.

>>717909965
>And I still get to criticize your opinions and you!

>>717889173
Even the japanese fucking hate wuk lamat, and they have a better VA and shittier taste in characters.

>>717909972
meant to reply to>>717909836

>>717909972
>the boss fights have such tight dodge windows that your hp doesnt matter, your armor doesnt matter, the weapon you choose doesnt matter
I'm shit at video-games and I didn't struggle at all with Dark Souls. You wanna know why? Because I had lots of health, a fully upgraded weapon, and the heaviest armor + a ring that let me wear said armor without fatrolling. You faggots crying about how Dark Souls "isn't build-based, it's skill-based!" are just bad at making builds

>>717910015
>Like I don't even need to say anything else desu.
You just said that gameplay is king, so considering that the only thing that you've talked about is aesthetics, you kinda do.

>>717908109
I've noticed that the only people who think souls difficulty is any form of achievement are people who hate the games. You pretend that this is the only reason people play them because it's inconceivable to you that people simply enjoy the process of overcoming moderate challenges.

It's like a fat fuck coping about people who like to hike or climb by telling himself they only do it to brag to their workmates.

>>717909972
Quit pretending you know anything about these games

>>717909603
Overwhelming majority of those people bought this game because it looks impressive and promises a cool adventure. Elden Ring being 95% carried by visual design is an elephant in the room that no one talks about. This is easily one of the most visually beautiful games that were ever made. If artists responsible for this would leave From Software and they fail to find appropriate replacement, they will never make a well-received game again, because everything else in it is pretty mediocre.

I assure you that 99% of people who played this game weren't particularly focused on combat, because the combat is basic, unresponsive and not really satisfying unless you have some downright peculiar preferences. They've just found some combat setup that works and powered through it. Or summoned some assistance, which notoriously makes enemies AI completely shit itself and turn into a punching bag.

People perceiving it as some mechanically complex and intense action game where the combat is the crown jewel are a small minority of autistics whose brains are completely rotted by getting high on each others' farts.

>>717909972
Souls games aren't RPG and you don't need to memorize shit, you just need to know what the characters you made can do or cannot do.

>>717908801
Souls games are cool because you can do both, you can react and read all but a handful of bullshit attacks the very first time you see them, and you get to enjoy learning the moves more in depth if you don't first try them.
Surely you've first tried some tough bosses before, right anon? you'd have to be like, REALLY bad at one of these games to think it's actually impossible or even unfair to first try even the toughest encounters...

>>717910203
>Here's how you feel about this game
You fags are so butthurt

>>717898790
Mostly no. There are bugs and exploits however, like in any game.

>>717910203
>I assure you that 99% of people who played this game weren't particularly focused on combat, because the combat is basic, unresponsive and not really satisfying unless you have some downright peculiar preferences. They've just found some combat setup that works and powered through it.
What the fuck are you even trying to argue here? "Oh, the game has absolutely beautiful art direction and the combat is basic and people just found builds that worked for them and beat it". Okay, and?? What's your thesis? Is this supposed to be an epic contrarian takedown of Elden Ring or something? It sounds like you have almost nothing but praise for it to me

>>717903814
>dogshit that should be taught in college courses as examples
stopped right there, the idea that game design is something you can merely "learn in college" is fucking gay and retarded and it's the reason all modern games EXCEPT by fromsoft are bad because nothing is unique and everything feels homogenous and the aspects which are homogenous aren't even good

>>717910203
>The combat is bad because I don't like it
big brain hours right here

>>717909909
>ignorance of game mechanics
GAME mechanics of From software 3d action formula are extremely basic, and even a toddler would need about 2 minutes to get a full grasp of them.
Did you by chance mean ENEMY mechanics, which are separate and unique for every meaningful encounter? Those games are not about mastering your character and its abilities, you do so in the first opening minutes of the game, it's about mastering enemy abilities. It's like some satirical parody of an action game.

Is someone stopping them from being able to criticize?

Something being a critique doesn't inherently make it a good critique.

>>717910453
>What's your thesis?
>>717910203
>People perceiving it as some mechanically complex and intense action game where the combat is the crown jewel are a small minority of autistics whose brains are completely rotted by getting high on each others' farts.
Here it is. It all boils down to that. The discussion started at >>717906695

>>717910534
>GAME mechanics of From software 3d action formula are extremely basic
Why?
>Did you by chance mean ENEMY mechanics
Enemy mechanics are a part of game mechanics, schizo, what are even those "enemy" mechanics anyway?

>>717910503
You don't play your build against most difficult bosses, you play the bosses' movesets (who have hyperarmor, input reading and very aggressive).
Against these bosses, you'll have the same gameplay loop
>dodge, punish 1 2 hit, dodge, punish, dodge

>>717910534
>GAME mechanics of From software 3d action formula are extremely basic
Nope
>and even a toddler would need about 2 minutes to get a full grasp of them.
I don't see yourself streaming gameplay
>Did you by chance mean ENEMY mechanics, which are separate
Lol no

>>717910203
Elden ring is ugly and samey, bloodborne and sekiro are much nicer looking games. As someone who plays these games for exploration above all I was disappointed by how much of elden ring felt like non descript souls sequel sludge. I understand why some may say it looks decent but people who think it's one of the best looking games of all time are crazy.

I think people forget that dark souls was inherently a pretty cheap looking, ugly game with very nice character designs and the odd beautiful set piece, they only got more ugly and generic with each sequel and that culminated with ER.

>>717910704
Quit projecting

>>717910704
>You don't play your build against most difficult bosses
I do? How else would I play the game if not by using my build?
>>dodge, punish 1 2 hit, dodge, punish, dodge
Why dodge when I can use a shield, or trade with HA, or use Endure, or stay out of range with a mage?
I don't think you ever played these games, lol

>>717909954
it's funny how you can fight a souls boss in 9 million different ways, making it easier or harder for yourself, which was the entire point all along, and shitters will say the game should be easier, despite the fact that the game facilitates near-cheating with items in the game, having someone else literally do the fight for you, letting you go full unga bunga and just bonk everything with a big stick, and even letting you be a naked level 1 no weapon psycho. somehow, this near perfect design is seen as a problem... by people that want control over everything. pottery, really.

>>717910749
If you like Sekiro you don't play Souls games for exploration, retarded poser

>>717910873
>Why dodge when I can use a shield, or trade with HA, or use Endure, or stay out of range with a mage?
You didn't beat the game. Git gud shitter.

>>717910613
The mechanical complexity, or lack thereof, of Fromsoft's combat systems are subjective and, quite frankly, irrelevant. But what's objective and what matters is that the main reason people play these games is for the euphoric dopamine rush they get after beating a boss that they struggled on. The combat, and more specifically the bosses, ARE absolutely the main appeal for every single person who plays the game, that much is undeniable

>>717910956
My cheevos and multiple completed savefiles say otherwise, chuddie

>>717870583
I played Lies of Piss on easy mode and used spectors to tank for me in boss battles.
Got all the achievements and beat the game according to steam and there's NOTHING you can do about it, fat boy.

>>717910972
>But what's objective and what matters is that the main reason people play these games is for the euphoric dopamine rush they get after beating a boss that they struggled on.
Are you sure of that?
I've seen many people only saying "thank god that shit is over" after beating le boss. And it seems that they've mainly felt obliged to do it for internet clout.

>>717910873
>stay out of range with a mage?
yeah let me stay out of range against all these bosses that are so aggressive they never leave your ass alone for 1 second
I have 300+ hours in ER alone, so no I know the game, I've finished it several times. I'm just saying, those bosses sucks because you only rely on dodge in this game. It's like you're playing RL1.

That's why I'm saying: you don't play the game, you play "dodging until I can finally hit once".

>I don't think you ever played these games, lol
I don't think you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

>>717910917
Who said I played sekiro for exactly the same reason I played souls? I can like games for different reasons you retard and even though I like sekiro combat more than souls, my favourite part of sekiro was still the feeling I got from the strange environments

>>717911141
Are you referring to streamers? Obviously streamers are doing it for internet clout, that's the whole fucking reason they're streaming. They don't have the same perspective as the average gamer

>>717910749
>Elden ring is ugly and samey, bloodborne and sekiro are much nicer looking games.
In your fucking dreams, filtered B team shitter

>>717911162
>yeah let me stay out of range against all these bosses that are so aggressive they never leave your ass alone for 1 second
hmmm
>I have 300+ hours in ER alone,
I have triple that amount of hours and you're full of shit.
I can't imagine how somebody with 300 hours in a game is still so clueless

>>717870328 (OP)
>talking shit about from games
pure zoomer behaviour
real gamers know eldern ring is the best game ever made

you only have to ignore the shit graphics, awful performance, reused assets, some of the worst writing in any medium, idiotic dated ui, empty boring open world, even more reused assets and bosses, 0 difficulty curve, enemies clipping through walls, clunky shitty hitboxes and animations, shit npc quest design, bilion usless stats, broken elemental interaction, shit magic system, summons and reused locations
i just love running through the same corridor for a tenth time fighting the same boss with minor variations after a hour long horse ride over an empty field the size of a GTA map

>>717870328 (OP)
You are allowed to criticize Soulslike games, but you are also allowed to be called an idiot when your criticism makes you look like one.
Good criticisms:
>Consort Radahn is so difficult that there's really only a few effective ways to fight him, which is a disappointment in a DLC that tried to teach you otherwise with other bosses
>Rellana's desperation attack is an unfair "got'cha" that punishes players whether or not they remember Rennala's moon
>Dark Souls 3 tries to draw inspiration from DS1 and BB, but fails to realize the best aspects of both games
>Forbidden Woods is unfinished and being open world actively detracts from the area
>Bed of Chaos fucking sucks
Bad criticisms:
>Margit is too hard
>Elden Ring is roll slop
>two retards posting WebMs of them pulling every enemy in an area in DS1 and DS2 at each other
>that retarded shit that Jonathon Blow said
>Elden Ring needs an easy mode (it has one already)
>artificial difficulty
>tsk, tsk tsk... poor, ignorant gamers... they don't even know these games are actually bad. if only i, a humble patrician, could enlighten them. alas!
These games are far from perfect, but people have started acting like annoying Facebook atheists in the 00s when they dislike them. This whole situation wouldn't be happening if people were simply able to say
>I dislike this
>but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, it just isn't for me
I don't like fucking Fortnite, but I still recognize that it's this generation's arena shooter / Halo / TF2 equivalent and it must be doing something right to have had so much long-term success. Just because tells unc to hold his L when I say it isn't for me doesn't cause me begin cooking up some grand conspiracy where I'm not allowed to dislike Fortnite.

tl;dr there's a difference between disliking something and hating something, and no one wants to entertain the latter

>>717911140
You got all of the endings? You did three whole playthroughs of the game?

>>717911263
A patch fixed this 3 years ago

>>717910203
>>717910613
>Skater A: new skater, does a kickflip
>Skater B: "You nailed it!"
>Skater A's little brother: "Woah!"
>You: "You are a bunch of autists and your brains are completely rotted getting high on each other's farts."

>Marxist: "Skateboarding is an expression of white patriarchal oppression because I can't do it. It needs to be more inclusive. I recommend a new activity where you just sit on the skateboard and roll down the sidewalk."
>You: "Comrade!"

>>717910873
>Why dodge when I can use a shield, or trade with HA, or use Endure, or stay out of range with a mage?
How many of those work on gay radahn? Only shield I think, and only if you build the whole character around shield block efficiency.
Gay radahn is the benchmark. If mechanic doesn't work on him, it doesn't exist. Nobody gives a fuck what you can kill hollow soldiers with.

>>717911259
Kek, you're such a shit eating goblin you confused the a-team projects with the cash grab souls sequel factory.

>>717911353
Curious, that webm was from one year ago.

>>717911302
>>Consort Radahn is so difficult that there's really only a few effective ways to fight him, which is a disappointment in a DLC that tried to teach you otherwise with other bosses
Git gud
>>Rellana's desperation attack is an unfair "got'cha" that punishes players whether or not they remember Rennala's moon
Git gud
>>Dark Souls 3 tries to draw inspiration from DS1 and BB, but fails to realize the best aspects of both games
Wrong, git gud
>>Forbidden Woods is unfinished and being open world actively detracts from the area
False

>>717911497
Retarded nigger

>>717879536
>The entire point of the bosses is to learn their patterns and figure out how to deal with their attacks whether that means avoiding them or exploiting them to get your own hits in.
This applies to Sekiro, but not Souls. The point of souls bosses being difficult is that so the player feels a sense of accomplishment for beating them the way he wants to beat them. If you want to beat a boss by using nothing but rolls and a great sword you'll beat the boss and think to yourself "that was an epic duel, I'm a badass crestfallen knight winning against all odds", if you want to fine tune your build and squeeze out as much damage as possible out of it you'll do the same and think to yourself "I'm glad the game acknowledges and rewards my willingness to experiment and attention to the game's systems", if you want to summon and beat the boss you might form a special bond with your preferred summon after it saves your ass, if you play a mage you'll find that the spells you choose to bring in battle will greatly affect the way the bossfight is going to play out, and therefore you will feel a sense of satisfaction for selecting a good roster of spells, etc etc etc

This is also why ER is the most replayable of the souls games despite not having the best level design, because the game acknowledges and rewards your choices more.

>>717898790
its worse
its by far the most buggy, broken and clunky of soul like games
you either get killed through walls, floors or get stuck on a pixel high rock and fall down a cliff in the bilion platforming sections

>>717911483
>parryslop game with literal corridor maps looks worse than Dark Souls 3
How did Yamamoron do it? No wonder Armored Core 6 is dead

>>717911367
Are you seriously comparing an actual physical sport which requires good motor coordination and improves your body, with one button arbitrary timing memorization? You can't be serious.

>>717911471
All of those actually.
If even random redditors can facetank Radahn with Endure why can't you?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1mi763u/everybody_was_kungfu_fighting

>>717911497
Now do that on dlc radahn.

>>717910972
It feels like people have completely forgotten that these games are designed to be challenging, not necessarily difficult. For some people, spamming Taker's Flames while their mimic tear rapes the boss is challenging. For other people, what's challenging is playing through the game with a +15 claymore at level 80. The whole issue arises out of the game letting you decide your difficulty intuitively, but never telling you you're making it easier or harder for yourself. It trusts that you'll figure it out yourself. Unfortunately, people are retarded and don't even seem to realize that they're responsible for curating the difficulty themselves.

>>717911785
NTA but doing a clean kill on Consort Radahn is much more impressive than doing a kickflip, obviously

>>717911742
You can cherry pick all you want it doesn't change the fact that sekiro and Bloodborne are froms best looking games. When I look at DS3 or ER my eyes glaze over because it feels like the entire games are just the same environment copy pasted with a Photoshop filter to swap out the primary colour.

>>717911302
I would say that Consort Radahn is an RPG Super Boss. He is not designed like anything else, he is designed as am ultimate challenge, the leap between him and the second hardest boss is bigger than the leap between the first and last boss. This is meant to be a challenge where you have to engage in nitty gritty mechanics instead of pure skill.

>>717911613
Incredible, some people in these dogshit threads have learned to use the archives at last.
Alright, I was shitposting to prod you and see whether you actually knew what you were talking about given how many people insist on talking shit out of their ass after so many years.
Even so, current Malenia still has no answer to many ranged options, they just fixed some of her weakness like getting destroyed by the bees but you can still mess with her by using many other spells or weapon arts, she still has no answer against Taker's Flames for instance.

>>717912104
>look at DS3 or ER my eyes glaze over
That's because you have an IQ of 15 and your... Well what you call a brain is overloaded

>>717912049
>Learn to skate
>Improve physically, impress your friends, impress teenage alt hoes
>Learn one single player game boss
>Everything you learned becomes completely useless after you've done with the boss, impress few mentally stunted autistic males on the internet
You can't be serious

>>717911259
>stand out of bounds
>the game displays the out of bounds lods
genius.

>>717870328 (OP)
I've been doing this shit for years and not a single time doesn't a retarded soulsbot come to shit on me without ever proving me wrong in any way.

>>717912104
>When I look at DS3 or ER my eyes glaze over because it feels like the entire games are just the same environment copy pasted with a Photoshop filter
Considering BB is literally just featureless grey and brown brick corridors and maybe some featureless grey and brown swamp every once in a while that's a very rich statement, ER is more colourful and varied than any of their other games put together.

>>717898790
No player would have any reason to logically do this, so the AI doesn't account for it - especially because there's like a hundred different enemies and bosses so it would be a waste of time and resources to animate critical hits against players playing down on the floor with emotes. But there's also a sitting emote, and a sleeping emote, and a curl up in a little ball emote. You'd end up making 2-3 animations for 100+ enemies (or, optimally, 1 animation for each enemy and 2-3 animations for the player for each respective emote) which 99.99% of players would never see.

And yet that's exactly what they did with sleeping animations, but you never see WebMs of every enemy's sleeping animation. It's almost like it's a bad faith non-argument based on an interaction that would never happen in normal gameplay. At least enemies being scripted to dodge spells even when you're not directly facing them is something that could probably happen in normal gameplay, even though the player still has no reason to do it.

>>717912480
Your bait responses are so stupid and low effort I have to close this thread because it's reminding me I am wasting my time and need to get back to work.

>>717912480
To be fair to that anon, DS3 does absolutely look like total dogshit. But yeah, anyone not impressed by ER visually is a retard

>>717870328 (OP)
I'm a bit neutral on Souls Games, I do like them yet I wouldn't exactly consider myself a fanboy, but man do I love the way they make people bitch at being bad at them.
It's what gaming needs, more filters.

>>717911785
Why don't you see women at the top levels of e-sports? Because reflexes, muscle memory, strategy, and spatial awareness matter in videogames. That same dynamic that I listed there is the essence of why gitting gud is cool and always will be. I used to think my older cousins were the coolest when they beat levels that I couldn't beat.

Except I forgot to get to the part where the Marxist uses our socialism-backed Karentocracy to effectively ban anything other than his lame activity at skateparks with the full backing of the skate media and modifications from the skateboard producers (which would then all collapse). Which is why hostility is so high.

The evil autists aren't the git gud crowd. It's the trannies, femcels, and trustfund babies complaining about those who want to be allowed to have games where everything isn't dumbed down and a fairly steady stream of high quality, high difficulty games. YOU are the bad guys trying to ruin people's fun.

>>717870328 (OP)
>t.western tranny devs can't compete with miyazaki and china

>>717912596
Skateboarding is for fucking children and no one has cared about it since the 2000s. Your hypothetical "alt hoes" haven't existed for 20 years. It absolutely is as trivial as a video-game (even moreso), you coping manchild. If a grown man tried to impress me with a kickflip, I would think he's weird for playing with a toy meant for millennial children. If he tried to impress me with a clean kill on Consort Radahn, I would be impressed

A game journalist gets paid to play games, they are the last people who should complain about difficulty.
They should be biased towards games being too shallow, this would indicate they know their respective genre well enough.

>>717910203
The design in ER looks uninspired compared to previous games which were more focused on historical accuracy (except DS2 I guess).
DS3 has a coherent architecture since it's set entirely in one kingdom.

>>717870415
npc response

What does this thread think about Wuchang?
It's had consistent threads on /v/ for two weeks now..

>>717870328 (OP)
Sure.

>>717912841
>It's the trannies
The most widespread type of arbitrary self-imposed challenge gameplay is speedrunning, and we all know the relationship between it and trannies lmfao.
Le beating AI dummy with fixed animations in a "real" way is a conceptually identical goal. It's just way more niche and has less exposure.

Also this shit is not sport, because you compete against other human beings who learn and grow just like yourself in sport. AI enemy can't learn or improve, it's programmed to consistently do the same things.

>>717912329
I get what they were going for with him, I just think it was a mistake to make THAT the ultimate challenge of Elden Ring. His punish windows are simply too tight, and defensive options that work even on other DLC bosses (including Messmer and Rellana) stop working on Radahn for that reason. Most of Elden Elden Ring's bosses are very freeform and reward more nuanced choices like strafing, spacing, jumping, or even crouching. Consort Radahn is a paint-by-numbers execution check with too few opportunities to be cute or creative. He's just a joyless fight, and the game slaps you on the wrist for trying to do anything but rolling while strafing in one direction, parrying, or shield poking. There's every obvious, tight amount of time for an "optimal" punish for each attack he has, and it gets a bit boring as you realize that.

>>717913104
Funny rage bait desu

>>717912740
>need to get back to work.
Yes you should. Im fucking sick of getting cold soggy fries because your lazy ass in on your phone.

>>717912808
DS3 is so fucking ugly that I'm convinced they deliberately made it look like shit as a baseline so the DS2 situation would never repeat itself

>>717912943
>If he tried to impress me with a clean kill on Consort Radahn, I would be impressed
What's to be impressed with? That he spent a lot of time sitting on his ass grinding the same encounter until he etched it into the muscle memory to the point of perfection?
The only possible reaction to that is being somewhat jealous that this retard has so much free time to spend on retarded shit like this.

>>717913196
It's the usual Miyazaki super duper final boss design.
Ever tried the secret Pulverizer or ultimate Zinaida fights in ACLR? Same deal, they crumble with specific hard counter builds while everything else is a pain.

>>717913170
If it's not comparable to playing a sport, then it is comparable to playing an instrument

>>717898790
Yes. The AI is genuinely fucking terrible and the angry redditor calling it bad faith or whatever is a fucking idiot. The fact that the AI doesn't know what to do unless you first press a button is in and off itself a problem, but the demented Tanimura cum-addicted Fromdrones who defend ER's terrible AI don't understand that good AI wouldn't need to input read there, and will instead tell you that "Video games don't have eyes so they need to read the buttons you press".

>>717912808
dark souls 3 just not having any casted shadows is so fucking weird.

>>717913320
>What's to be impressed with? That he spent a lot of time sitting on his ass grinding the same encounter until he etched it into the muscle memory to the point of perfection?
Yeah. Same reason playing an instrument is impressive. It's just hours and hours of raw practice and stubbornness. How is it any more or less trivial? You're trying so hard to LARP as a "le video-games are weird" normie with your irrationally high standards for what constitutes as an accomplishment in a hobby that actual normies would look at your behavior in this thread and think you have some issues. And they'd be right, because you clearly do. You clearly got filtered by these games and took it personally

>>717913415
>The fact that the AI doesn't know what to do unless you first press a button is in and off itself a problem
None of that is a thing Tanimuraschizo

>>717912393
>Alright, I was shitposting to prod you
You're a complete piece of shit if you would lie to progress an argument. There's no excuse for it.

>>717895528
More people need to talk about how the Fromsoft community was fine up until Xbox players got Prepare to Die and created the Git Gud meme

>>717870328 (OP)
Okay. Let's criticize Gachaslop.

>>717901626
>yet it's widely regarded as the best game of all time
By journalists and tendies who don't actually play games.

>>717913559
Everyone in this place lies whether you like it or not, sometimes the best way to spot them and expose them is to lie on your end as well and see if they fall for it.
You think people are here to have honest arguments? In these daily anti FROM shitposting threads even? You're more delusional than I thought if that's the case.

>>717913354
Playing an instrument produces beautiful music that at least someone would enjoy.
Playing this, it seems, only produces farts on the internet.

Also if you're proficient with an instrument, you can play vast amount of different things on it.
You being proficient at one encounter in from software type game does not translate to anything outside of that particular encounter. At the next complex enemy, you start from zero again.
This is definitely one of the most useless effort sinks. If you like that as an entertainment, no one will judge, but if you have a nerve to claim that this shit adds any value or clout for you, people will laugh at you same as if you start telling about how good are you at speedrunning an obscure 1998 game.

>>717870415
>yeah i like hardcore games
>soullike
Every. Single. Time.
Talk to me when you beat a game thats actually impossible without god like dice rolls.

>>717903423
Thanks for confirming everything written in that post.

>>717870328 (OP)
why is he black

>>717913851
>You being proficient at one encounter in from software type game does not translate to anything outside of that particular encounter. At the next complex enemy, you start from zero again.
This is so wrong.
By that logic then fighting games would not have the massive legacy skill they have.

>>717913804
What you say doesn't matter. You're a liar. You're a scheming fox. A coward. Even if you accidentally say something true it will be assumed that you've got a devious, ulterior motive and the information will be met with scrutiny.
Damn you, and everyone like you, to hell.

>>717913851
>Also if you're proficient with an instrument, you can play vast amount of different things on it.
I know lots of people who have certain melodies memorized on guitar or piano but couldn't actually PLAY either instrument for real (like if you told them to play a random melody, they wouldn't be able to do it). A party trick, essentially. Obviously it's not as impressive as genuinely understanding the instruments, but it's still impressive that they practiced the same melody for hours until they mastered it.
>You being proficient at one encounter in from software type game does not translate to anything outside of that particular encounter. At the next complex enemy, you start from zero again.
If someone is skilled enough to do a clean kill on Consort Radahn, they can probably do the same to every other ER boss (and most soulslike bosses in general, really)

>>717909457
>actually thinking Souls games are for hardcore gamers
Fromdrones are just the new tendies.

>>717914017
>You're a liar. You're a scheming fox. A coward. Even if you accidentally say something true it will be assumed that you've got a devious, ulterior motive and the information will be met with scrutiny.
Yes, there's no worth in playing fair in a den of liars and you're a fool if you think otherwise, in fact actually encouraging scrutiny is a good thing since imbeciles here are prone to believe whatever bullshit is posted without actually checking for it, it's how these dogshit threads survive in the first place.
Only by enforcing constant awareness of trickery can you force people to try and discern what is true and what isn't, the poster's purposes have nothing to do with truth as truth and factual information in itself, once verified, speaks for its own.

>>717913949
Fighting games have two main aspects that require mastering - general input system and playing against another human. Former is generally similar between different games. Latter transcends different games.

The only legacy skill for from software type 3d action is a muscle memory of general controls, which is pretty simple and actually makes you more consistent if the game stays on the same level. But the funny part is that the main way of squeezing any more content out of this formula, mostly exhausted of potential for innovation by the time ER came out, is creating things that deliberately fuck with legacy skill which players used to previous games have. It's a parody that you can't make up.

>>717910972
I have a zoomer coworker who's never played a Souls game but loves Elden Ring. He also doesn't like hard games and summons for every boss.

>>717914454
>The only legacy skill for from software type 3d action is a muscle memory of general controls,
No, basic awareness in terms of options is a thing that transcends any difference in fights because all enemies essentially obey the same basic rulesets.
All standard attacks can be blocked provided your character is built around it, all grabs can be avoided in the same way, all projectile spells can be deflected by the same tools, because all of this is coded to obey hard rules.
>creating things that deliberately fuck with legacy skill which players used to previous games have.
No, it only fucks over with casuals who were bad at previous games and don't have the critical skills to understand what's happening.
By the same token you can say that delaying rekkas in a fighting game fucks over with another player's "legacy skill", it's not that, it's just testing whether people are actually paying attention rather than lazily going through the motions.

Soul games are very good.
I think Elden Ring missed the mark, however, in replicating Dark Souls so faithfully. It's literally Dark Souls Open World, but even so, the guys are smart enough to avoid some problems like the ones you find in games like Zelda, where Open World becomes an excuse for shitty mechanics to be repeated ad nauseam because the devs have no idea how to turn that brainless sandbox into an actual video game.
My biggest problem with Elden Ring is that the bosses are all trying to bait the player into making mistakes because the players have simply become too good and the devs can't elevate the combat formula. It reminds me of how in Tetris Grandmaster there's a "cyclone" mechanic that starts scrambling the pieces in the most extreme levels, like a desperate attempt to stop the best players, but Elden Ring is entirely based on this type of mechanic designed to try to trick the player in annoying ways.

>>717913540
That webm existing proves you objectively wrong with no wiggle room for interpretation, Tanimura cum guzzler.

>>717914978
>That webm existing proves you objectively wrong
The only thing that webm proves is your mental illness and utter detachment from reality Tanimuraschizo, why don't you go make your uusal AC6 shitposting threads?

>>717913540
>The fact that the AI doesn't know what to do unless you first press a button is in and off itself a problem
It knows perfectly what to do. It just waits you to commit to any action, so it can hit you. It also waits to restore its poise, and if you attempt to keep the pressure up, you will get hit in a face because your animation is slower than its animation, and you can't interrupt it.
This is the egregious problem with input reading. Not healing.

>>717914418
No, you fart-sniffing faggot. You're not "encouraging doing one's own research," you're just presenting more false information that will be taken as true uncritically, because you're just one liar in a pit of lairs trying to outlie one another. There is basically no such thing as information that stands on its own, because for information to stand on its own it must be encountered by a mind that is already capable of processing it and such minds are dwindling every year, overrun by pieces of shit like you who will lie, cheat, and steal and then boast that it's for some imagined "greater good." You don't do anything to improve the public discourse. You shit on a pile of shit and then claim that yours doesn't stink.

What people don't understand is that the games are about learning how to overcome the challenges. Some people just aren't built for that and that's fine but the important part of criticising them is answering the question of "Is this a fun fight to learn?".

>>717915196
Why don't you learn to program or to draw fagboy? It seems that whatever remains of your brain still craves to, but you managed to direct that impulse to some shitty sink where you learn to press a button at the exact moment of AI doing a move, time and time again.

>>717915196
Based understander of the situation.

>>717915123
It's a literal bugged out reaction that nobody is able to replicate, which is why that is the only webm that gets spammed over and over to begin with, if that were a real problem you'd see many, many different webms replicating that behaviour, but you don't.
>It also waits to restore its poise
Enemies don't have to wait to restore their posture like players do, it restores automatically after a variable amount of time passes after getting hit, which is coded differently for each enemy, mostly depending on size class but with some rare exceptions to the rule.
>and if you attempt to keep the pressure up, you will get hit in a face because your animation is slower than its animation
Outside of this being patently wrong you have plenty of options to avoid getting hit and/or stopped in the process by using various options like actual fast animations, ranged attacks, anything with HA on it, things that change your hitbox placement to avoid attacks altogether and what have you.
>>717915126
People aren't innately critical, trust is something you have to build and maintain, and you yourself know it as you can see how people are getting less and less critical because they are deliberately trained to be less and less critical.
Whether you like it or not everyone out there lies and that includes you and I, but there's a critical difference in the nature of the lie itself, like Picasso said some lies are there to help you see the truth, sometimes you have to prod people with them.