Thread 723123875

What was the meaning behind Noelle being visually crucified on a hand? Queen does not address why she strung her up like this whatsoever.

>>723123875 (OP)
It foreshadows the fact that she's the sacrificial girl who Susie replaces.

Stay in your containment thread

>>723123875 (OP)
It's been 10 years. Have you forgotten?
Beware the man that speaks in hands.

>>723123875 (OP)
I SEE THE CREATURE, I CLICK THE THREAD. It's a good creature

>>723123875 (OP)
>CHRISTmas themed character
>gets crucified
>gets a thorn ring (crown)

>>723124319
>It's Escapism, can't you see it's not healthy?

BRAVO TOBY

can't wait to kill these lame gay teens in the game

>>723124514
I can't wait to force Noelle to kill Susie

>>723123875 (OP)
Kris lost a hand in the incident where Dess went missing. All the hand symbolism is because of this, because that's the inciting incident that caused everything. Notice how it's the same colour as dark world Kris.

>>723124452
Who said "Wake" was a good thing?

>>723124576
Kris is Revan after being mind wiped again and the continual mind wipes fucked up his brain so he sees Mission as Susie and Noelle as Zaalbar CONFIRMED

>>723123875 (OP)
I hope to god that Chapter 5-7 has something that surpasses the SOUL teleporting from the vent to the text box in the Weird Route, that metafuckery got me good

NOELLE WILL DIE FOR OUR SINS

>>723124704
>PROCEED
>Unintelligible blonde wookie wailing

>>723124786
But can he surpass Omega Flowey?

>>723124974
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GconqBHsQDs

>>723124786
i imagine that if noelle creates a dark world out of grief then it'll be traumakino
all her issues with kris, her parents, and dess will be all out in the open

>*Do you know what day it is today, Kris?
>"October 31st?"
>*That's right. December's-- my daughter's --birthday.
>"Birthday?"
>*Carol had a troubled pregnancy, and ultimately the baby came a month early, premature. Due to complications, Carol had an emergency C-section.
>*I thought I was going to lose both of them. I was so afraid.
>*It was a whole month before we left the infant intensive care unit with our child in our arms.
>*It wasn't until that day we named her. December 1st. My first child.
>*But it was today, 19 years ago, that my family was born. The family meant to lead Hometown, and this nation.
>"All you want is power -- at any cost."
>*Kris, it's not power I want. What I want to take back from Royal Sciences LLC are things like-- choices, love, FREEDOM, Kris. The fundamental keys to a life worth living. Everything that's been wiped out by their twisted Prophecy.

>*KRIS, ARE YOU RECEIVING? WE'RE STILL HERE.
>"How's that possible?! The Delta Rune was destroyed!"
>*ONLY G_____...
>"Who are you?"
>*TO BEGIN WITH -- WE'RE NOT WHAT YOU'D CALL -- LIGHTNERS.
>*OVER THE PAST XXX YEARS, A KIND OF CONSCIOUSNESS FORMED LAYER BY LAYER IN THE CRUCIBLE OF THE UNDERGROUND...
>*WE ARE FORMLESS. WE ARE THE VERY FEAR AND UNCERTAINTY THAT LIGHTNERS INVOKE SO OFTEN. HOW CAN ANYONE HOPE TO ELIMINATE US? AS LONG AS DARKNESS EXISTS, SO WILL WE.

>*IT'S TIME FOR THE FINAL EXERCISE. KRIS, TAKE RUDOLPH DOWN.
>"Think again! I'm through doing what I'm told!"
>*OH REALLY? AREN'T YOU FORGETTING SOMETHING?
>*THE TERMINATION OF VITAL SIGNALS FROM YOUR HUMAN SOUL MEANS THE DEATH OF SUSIE. NOT TO MENTION THE DEATH OF RALSEI. HE'S WIRED THE SAME WAY.
>"Ralsei -- does he actually exist?"
>*Of course I do, Kris! You have to beLIEve me!
>"Damn...!"
>*IT WILL BE A FIGHT TO THE DEATH.
>*SO, BURNING EYES! WILL IT BE RUDOLPH, THE ROYAL SCIENCES' CREATION? OR YOU -- RUDOLPH'S CREATION?
>*OUR BELOVED MONSTERS -- ENJOY YOURSELVES.

>*By the way, Kris,... I was the one who killed your real parents!

>>723124786
being on this ship from chapter 1, I have full trust in dog
I remember when weird route was discovered here
And then entire zelda segment, me, that short moment when susie ask you what were you discussing in noelle room

I’d like to see Toby make an outright horror game someday, something like FAITH cause I feel like he’s genuinely very above-average at doing spooky shit

she was grooming noelle

>>723125365
I swear half the appeal of UTDR for some people is that it is a game designed with creepy pasta aspects
I don't know if that can actually translate to straightforward horror

>based on a blatantly creepypasta-inspired game
>took all the creepiness and horror elements out of the game to turn it into something fun, innocent and wacky
The Legend of Tenna is Sunky.mpeg

>>723125236
Toby unironically mentioned MGS three whole times during the stream and also said UT's ending with Sans speech was inspired by MGS2.

Cue Kris losing his hand like Ocelot in MGS1

>>723124696
I completely checked out on deltarune stuff, what happens to totally not killed berdly in the proceed ing chapters

>>723125459
I guess the issue is that the spooky moments only hit this hard because the normal game is completely safe and innocent (UT, not so sure about DR), making it an horror game from the start wouldn't hit as hard, since in the end none of this is really that scary outside of the context.

>>723125536
play the FUCKING game

>>723125536
he's in the hospital

>>723125536
coma, u can heat him up to make him feel better

>>723125536
On the normal route if he's healthy he'll call Noelle and you can prank him with the wrong number song, after which he'll pull the most chad move in the game.
On the normal route if he gets his arm fried fighting Queen he'll be in the hospital because his arm is fucked in the real world too. Susie will consider possibly taking him to the dark world in case they can heal him there, but holds off on it.
On weird route he's in the hospital in a hypothermia-induced coma. Kris will automatically change his heat towel and increase the room's radiator without you explicitly telling him to.

>>723125620
can't be assed until the final release anymore, I don't have the youth to keep replaying old content without burning out fast anymore
if I die before then so be it

>>723125606
>completely safe and innocent (UT, not so sure about DR)
cmon man, you can kill monsters in UT from the start, its not safer then DR

>>723125780
then just play the new chapters dipshit

>>723125886
not interested in incomplete experiences
that's like starting the mass effect trilogy at 2

>>723126027
you already played 1 and 2, just keep going dipshit

>>723126027
no
its like starting at ME, and then waiting for a sequel, albeit with lesser chance of it beeing ass at the end
waiting is part of experience

>parallel to gaster (was replaced by alphys in his profession after death, his creation "swallowed up the author himself")
>name is an anagram of GONERS
What did he mean by this?

>>723126194
he is old .

>>723125842
At least in American culture, the physical coercion, emotional manipulation, arranged marriage symbolism, and sexual violence symbolism of Weird route is WAAAAY more taboo than 'genociding' the monsters. UT evil route is just "edgy", whereas Weird route even existing without any significant criticism about the kind of power fantasy is provides, is a testament to the faith that the audience has in Toby Fox about "why it exists".

>>723126275
>old man
>gaster may be based on toby's older scrapped character Grandpa Semi
That just makes it even stronger

>>723126359
I'm sure Toby said he wanted to make an old character and that he gave that role to Gerson at some point in the anniversary stream.

>>723126316
>without any significant criticism about the kind of power fantasy is provides
Isn't the horrifying sound effect while you rape Noelle enough to show that it is a bad thing?

>>723126523
Speaking of Gerson, why is he like this?

>>723126801
he is getting on on the years

Also, why did people memoryhole the fact it was Asgore who trained Undyne and not Gerson?

>>723126615
Eh the internet is usually pretty reactionary and not super accepting of nuance, is the problem. And in terms of how viral bandwagons start, a lot of people will see that seen as a gif or audio-less mp4 anyway.
And even if OBVIOUSLY weird route is leading to a bad place, it's still in a video game and is basically letting players enjoy doing really fucked up things. Like the ch2 Easter egg where for the only time in the game you can input movement during Noelle's dialogue in the hospital and cause her to scream in terror "Don't come any closer!"
To be clear, I do NOT give a fuck personally and i think it's really cool that weird route exists. The only claim im actually very willing to defend is that weird route is seen as way darker/taboo than genocide route.

>>723125184
And even besides all that, Noelle creating a fountain would probably shape the Dark World to a horror theme regardless because Noelle really likes scary shit
Combine that with her probably doing it to revive Rudy after he dies and things are gonna get so fucked

>>723126925
Both Gerson and Asgore trained Undyne. Gerson says he did in his shop dialog.

>>723126801
If Tolkien raised from the dead he would collect all those Elf girl lore from media and improve their designs

>>723127040
I wonder how much Toby is aware of the people enjoying the weird route (like porn artists or even the anons here).

>>723127158
I only recall him saying she followed him around as a child.
It doesn't break the timeline but I find a shame people forgot the really sweet relationship Undyne has with Asgore.

>>723125842
>you can kill monsters in UT from the start, its not safer then DR
They're just random encounters. There's no weight to any of it until you kill Toriel. I wouldn't call Undertale COMPLETELY safe and innocent from the start since you do have Flowey fuck with you and try to kill you, but the overall tone doesn't really start to turn until Waterfall.
Deltarune's tone isn't that far removed from Undertale but it is significantly more "dark" or "real," even if it's only in the PG -> PG-13 sense. The Light World is comforting but it's also grounded in reality and tinged with cynicism, and the Dark World is even more like a game than Undertale but that just makes the moments when "reality" slips through sting more. You don't kill enemies in Deltarune, but that just gives more weight to when Lancer starts worrying that you're going to kill his dad, and when Lancer and Susie fight for real.

>>723124669
>final chapter
>kris and susie get into a tussle
>*pop*
>susie is standing there in shock holding kris' prostetic
>"man why did you never mention this, baka"
>just before the make up, the hand comes to life, graps kris' knife and makes a dark fountain
>but the hand absorbs the fountain and the screen fades to black
>...
>a text box appears
>"well you gound me, congratulations, was it worth it?" is said
>in wingdings

Absolute cinema, gaster truly was a cum stained, cheap prostetic inside us, all along

Are you pro-skub or anti-skub?

>>723127284
Undyne has a lot of respect for Gerson, practically idolizing him, which you can glean by calling her from in front of his shop.

>>723127221
Anon, he was a regular on /v/ and Tumblr back in the old days. He called himself "the king of ero games". He knows and approves.

>>723127065
What the revived Rudy becomes a second knight?

also
>horror themed dark world
What if we get a second Jackenstein appearance?

>>723128716
im against for alot of reasons, but one of the reasons is that the thematic significance that it has is very low. i like the interpretation that it's the knight punishing Kris for daring to go against her and kris solemnly accepting it, especially with Toriel having a knightmare when it happens(kris following a bad influence).

>>723124319
Rouxls?

Every day I wake up and thank Allah that I don't like deltarune

>>723129552
yes. Clearly he is the one and only.

>>723127221
He made an mpreg album in response to pregnant incest being banned on the MSPA forums. His powerlevel far exceeds most of /v/'s.

>>723128716
I am pro skub because its cool

>>723129853
>Suselle will become a Rouxls threesome
the horror

>>723125236
Nah, Toby will rip off Persona 2 for this one. Kris' master plan will succeed, and he will save Knight for real. But fountains of darkness will spill over into the light world, creating a twisted reflection of Hometown, and take the form of a every bad thing that dark world provides escapism from like a terrible parental situation. After all, a man's heart holds the greatest darkness.
According to the prophecy, the only way to stop that will be a sacrifice of one of the heroes. That is to say: (you), the dark-banishing soul. That also means dark worlds will be sealed. Kris and Susie will send off Ralsei, who will tell them to not obsess about somebody who was never a real boy, and make other friends. All of that while looking directly at the camera.

>>723128716
>The sprite is called Roaring Knight Slash
This is pretty neutral, it's an asset related to the scene with the RK and named accordingly.
>Susie and Ralsei both fall to the left when slashed.
Which doesn't make much sense either way when it's the opposite way from the direction of the slash and The Knight is no longer in front of them
>Kris doesn't move visibly at all
This is one of the many times where we're simply not allowed to see what Kris is doing, in the same way that we're not allowed to hear what they say or think. Even if they're not the one who attacked, isn't it just as hard to believe that they wouldn't react at all to Susie getting viciously cut down in front of them?
>Kris flinches when attacking Susie and Ralsei in the Sword Route game
The important differences here are that when you attack them in the game you're killing them, and that it's something you're forcing Kris to do. The idea that you could and would force them to hurt their friends, or worse, is upsetting for obvious reasons.
>Kris's damage goes up when Susie and Ralsei are down
This can be explained in a number of ways, including simply not wanting people to be unnecessarily gimped if Kris is the last party member standing (which is likely)

Anyway, I don't think this is something that can be proved one way or another and I also don't think there's much difference between Kris stabbing Susie in the back or Kris standing by and letting The Knight do it. Either way Kris betrayed the party and Ralsei saw it happen but keeps quiet about it.

>>723128716
>>723130501
The Knight just playing around before revealing her true power level is better than the Knight actually being a massive jobber who needs Kris to bail her out.

>>723128716
This is literally Kris Knight theory 2, even if Kris didn't do it, the intention of using Tenna to keep Susie and Ralsei busy was there

What was the point of King's throne room being destroyed?
How can Seam know so much in advance?
People forget everything that came before once a new release comes.

>>723128716
pro-slash but kris did it to protect susie and ralsei from getting actually hurt

>>723129853
i wasn't super into rouxls before ch3 but he was fucking hilarious in that one
star walker at the end was just icing on the cake, i can't imagine ch3 without him

>>723130869
>What was the point of King's throne room being destroyed?
The king trashed it when he deposed the other kings and took over
>How can Seam know so much in advance?
Friends with Jevil, who is a certified knower.

>>723130869
>why was king's throne room destroyed
He won a battle against the other card kings and imprisoned them.
>How can Seam know so much in advance?
We don't really know exactly what their deal is, but knowing the future isn't very unique for Darkners at this point. The Darkners in ch4 know the prophecy for example. Ralsei may know an encyclopedic amount of the future. It may have to do with what character Seam the plushie is, being the magician woman Asriel played as could factor into it. EG it's in the lore of Seam's character that they are a seer, perhaps. "Seam" is also a word about sewing/fabric, which are often used as metaphors and imagery for fate and destiny.

>>723128716
What really rustles my jimmies is that slash is how you'd draw a horizontal attack from left to right, or a long reaching spinning slash. Whatever the "actual" answer is, the animator fucked up by drawing a single frame like that, it just suggests an entirely wrong thing when the team staggers to the left afterwards.

>>723130869
throne room being trashed was probably something that toby discarded sometime after ch1 came out, i think a lot more has changed story wise since that point than people think
seam clearly is someone who at least partially has schizo knowledge, not enough to fully go insane but enough to get a glimpse of the bigger picture
think the ancestor from darkest dungeon when narrating, he knows what's going on and generally plays it cool for the party, but he 100% goes off the deep end again when confronting the eldritch nonsense again

>>723128716
The swoon slash sound effect is the Knight's "cut" sound with some effects added, and if you slow the normal sound down and compare it to other slowed Knight sounds, you'll find it's a pitch shifted version of the Knight's roar. Which is why snd_knight_pulse IS their voice.
It's not Kris.

>>723131136
Toby autistically watches those details, it is 100% on purpose, only mistake Toby made that i remember was that he forgot to change the color when snowgrave spamton gets frozen

>>723128716
I can't remember what i thought when i played.
But IMO Ralsei's dialog and expression is extremely odd if the knight did it.
Unless Ralsei understands the nature of the attack the knight used and is upset by that, but that's entirely speculative.
I think the most convincing possibility to me is that Kris feared the knight was about to genuinely murder the shit out of Susie so Kris did the only thing they could think of to defuse the situation.

>>723130501
The way the slash is shaped kinda inches me a bit more towards Kris having done it, actually, even if ultimately I'm undecided between whether he or the Knight slashed Susie or Ralsei (mostly because it makes little practical difference so far).

The start of the swing could've been from the right point of the arc rather than the left. This'd both line up with Kris doing some unsheathing half-spin slash (drawing his sword, or perhaps in this case his knife, from his left hip like usual, spinning clockwise to the party members), in which case it'd make sense for them to fall to the left. Surprised that I haven't found anyone that considered this, yet.

>>723128716
Pro-slash with the following addendums
>Kris has a save file before you save over it at the very beginning of Ch1, they do have Dark World experience, the extent of which could easily extend to being at or around the Knight's par depending on just how long they've been in there before
>Ralsei is aware of the separation between the player and Kris and is careful to converse with Kris whenever the frame-of-reference is away from them; I think Ralsei was surprised that Kris would attack them in any capacity and also doesn't know if the player did it, his talk-sprite is a little whimsical for the kind of reaction he should be having from Kris of all people attacking him
>I doubt a gigantic spoiler on the attacker's identity would be in a sprite name and instead the sprite is named after the battle it takes place in
>Kris has some investment in the prophecy, whether in making sure it goes properly or making sure it's thwarted, Carol seems to be in on it (she herself also hints at being aware of the player/Kris separation and her obsession with hearts is very, very, very easy to interpret as an obsession with human souls)

>>723130869
>How can Seam know so much in advance?
Real answer: he's a Gaster proxy/avatar, possibly the same goes for Rouxls

>>723131285
Spare me the cocksucking, there is no "on purpose" for a point bereft of creative interpretation or iconoclasm, that's like pretending a backwards walking cycle can be the same as forwards one. I don't care who is "right" in this huge internet fight, I am saying that a single frame tapering offscreen followed by falling to the left is WRONG. There are directionally ambiguous ways to depict a slash, like default attack Kris does, and this is not one of them.

>Chapter 1: two shop screens (Rouxls, Seam)
>Chapter 2: three shop screens (Sweet Capn Cakes, Spamton, Swatch)
>Chapter 3: zero shop screens
>Chapter 4: zero shop screens

>>723130869
>How can Seam know so much in advance?
He's of the same stock as Ramb, he knows too much and has a depressive or nihilistic outlook on the Dark World, if he had a Shadow Crystal he'd be big shit

>>723131058
>>723131115
>* Once, all four of us ruled together, but when the Knight arrived, everything changed..
Might not have been him
>>723131178
Probably right. This really feels more like a seasonal show with a ton of retcons than a game you just play at once, at this point.

Also,
>* The kings and animals left to seek their fortune.
What happened to them? Only options I can think is that they slipped into Mancountry somehow or Toby is just acknowledging there is no point on keeping them around anymore.

>>723131649
I'm leaning into Seam being a failed Prince of the Dark from a previous attempt at doing the prophecy that didn't work out.

>>723131765
But what if in chapter 5 Noelle runs a shop and she is cheesed to meet you

>>723131821
they likely went off wandering the cliffs area along with mr society
while i don't think they'll come back in any meaningful way, the area around castle town is implied to be pretty substantial
also yeah they probably 'left' because it's been 7 years since their debut and they've done jack shit outside of one joke with the monkeys

>>723131752
Might be just a retarded mistake, but also we fully don't know the Knight full power and maybe when it disappears did a *teleports behind u* moment

>>723131765
I can give a pass to Gerson because his study is gorgeous, but the lack of a proper shop feels wrong.

Why are there so many things like this in 3+4?

>>723131978
No one ever questioned where are the queens either.

It would be quite a mindfuck if there turned out to be an actual Spade Queen somewhere who has nothing to do with Queen;

>>723131873
She's such a greedy, bourgeoisie cunt with rich parents... nepobaby doe needs correction...

>>723132087
considering that lancer seems to never had a mother before queen, i do wonder what's up with them
simple answer probably is that the artist who drew the card suite characters queen designs were pretty lackluster and toby just didn't bother with them

>>723132318
I guess it's just another thing for the pile of overlooked aspects in this game.

Also, I remembered now Chess Theory was born specifically because of how Jevil talks about a Queen and a Knight, and people made the connection to chess pieces from that. Funny how there was a 3 year period many expected the game to be just Card Kingdom and Queen to have a larger role.

>>723131869
That would be cool but unfortunately it's like Kris being The Girl
Seam is one of Toby's unspecified gender characters so he's not gonna make him a former "prince"

>>723132590
doesn't seam talk like stereotypical grandma in japanese? i vaguely remember someone talking about that a while ago

>>723132517
i've never been a big fan of chess theory, i get why people were banking on it but for me personally it felt too rooted in ch1's board games style of adventure that ch2 was very clearly not going for
although i do understand how it was a popular idea when we only had ch1 to go off of

>>723128716
Anti-scrub.
If Kris could overpower the soul in such drastic way to protect his friends and bail out the Knight, he'd have done it to protect Berdly and especially Noelle in the weird route.

>>723132517
Chess theory is still alive.
>Tenna is omnipresent but has definite blind spots even without a distraction such as Noelle, like a Rook
>Old Man is also omnipresent, but can only exist in Dark Worlds created by the Knight’s will, much like how a Bishop can only travel along one color of tiles

>>723132725
It still made sense with Chapter 2 to be fair, Queen was the main antagonist
It should've died as soon as we learned "Tenna" was the next villain's name though. Sure it could've been Rook N. Tenna or something but that's kinda forced.

>>723123875 (OP)
Bear in mind this is not only a hand, but a left hand.

>>723132741
Kris seems to have control in cutscenes so he can do whatever. Not really sure how prompts work though

Wild card theory before I leave the thread:

At some point in chapter 6 or 7, we will revisit former dark world locations, now desolate. The exact state of each world will depend on what you did there.

>Card Kingdom is just empty, Jevil might be there
>Cyber World is also just empty, also frozen if you snowgraved it
>TV World completely lacks the TV theming, it's just dark weirdness, you get to visit the other locations Shuttah mentioned.
>Dark Sanctuary is trashed, but you get to see the full Prophecy
>Who the knows what happens in the Flower Kingdom?

Cyber World in particular would be an opportunity to feature the snowgrave city song alt in the OST.

>>723130869
>What was the point of King's throne room being destroyed?
King came to power by force. By his, or The Knight's.
>How can Seam know so much in advance?
Aside from "Gaster lol," there's some significant evidence in the new Chapters that Seam might have been Dess and/or Asriel's handmade toy. Dess has some "yarn and buttons" in the giant pile of crap in her room which stands out a bit among all the outdoorsy and sports stuff, and Susie points out that there's apparently a drawing of Seam on Asriel's computer wallpaper.
If there's a "copy" of Seam in Kris's house, that might somehow explain Seam's connection to the Shadow Mantle (or why the Shadow Mantle that Seam thought he had was hidden inside a game in Kris's house). It might also raise questions about the somewhat cat-like Shadow Mantle boss and the definitely cat-like FRIEND, but that's getting away from things.

>>723131178
>>723131821
The whole story of how The Knight put King into power is kind of hard to reconcile with what we learn about how fountains and the Dark World actually work later, it definitely comes off as an early draft thing.
When it comes to things being wrecked I'm more interested in the significance of the Church being wrecked at the end of Chapter 4.
Did the Titan being summoned damage the real world, or did The Knight ransack the place before they made the fountain? Were they looking for something, trying to find the code so Susie couldn't get it? Did they kidnap Alvin?

>>723132087
Lore drop from Ramb, the Queen is literally the Queen from chapter 2, shit that Kris and Noelle created when they were kids

>>723132741
Counter point, Kris likes doing bad things, especially when he gets to blame (you).

>>723133079
oh like the ruins from Undertale huh

>>723132879
What do bears have to do with this?

>>723133079
Purified Zone type shit

>>723133089
Maybe FRIEND will be fully assembled during the roaring?

>>723133089
the spare classroom is also in pretty rough shape after ch1, honestly the only inconsistent one is ch2 with the computer lab being totally fine afterwards
remember that tenna built his stage over the 'real' dark world, probably so toriel didn't wake up to the house trashed when the fountain was sealed

>>723133114
It's curious because Kris can talk and even tamper the words when you choose
He could have told Berdly to fuck off in his own voice

>>723132798
man you people need to go outside, or at least channel your autism into something halfway useful

>>723133089
I figured the Knight went to the church to make another attempt at kidnapping Toriel.

>>723133114
Kris was probably cool with killing Darkner enemies and Berdly was where the line was crossed

>>723133218
But what awaits us at The Room? Just who is Deltarune’s Hugo?

>>723133107
This doesn't rule out the concept of a Spade Queen. It could just be some random card woman unrelated to King and Queen.

>>723123875 (OP)
Robert is a ghoul subverting and perverting the religious symbols of his native culture. In the very same game, it's revealed the "church" in the overworld "doesn't believe in sin."

>>723133382
>the room
Friend
>hugo
Dess duh

>>723128646
Why did chara made me do it?

>>723133382
I don't know, but I know who The Judge is.

>>723133429
>the "church" in the overworld "doesn't believe in sin."
that's basically what episcopalians believe though

>>723133107
>* Time flies... Seems like just yesterday you and that girl had everyone here lined up.
>* Queen on her side, King on your side, Tenna in back... Oh, it was chaos, CHAOS!
>* Heh, only kids like you two would take a laptop home just to play make believe.
>* ... how is she, Kris? Are you two...? Well, it's alright. Everyone changes. 'cept us.
What if "that girl" wasn't Noelle?

>>723133000
There was a decent video someone did a while back trying to figure out the extent of his control and in what scenarios.
Tbh the bigger question is in stuff like battles to what extent of control he has for an ACT. like does he come up with compliments when we command that act or do we? same thing goes for other acts to where you have to wonder if hes able to subvert the soul's will while remaining true to the command

>>723124786
Personally I want more like this, and weirder if possible

>>723133429
The Christian larp doesn't really work anon I think you should change tacts

>>723124786
I just want another traditional schizo boss fight one last time at least. It's either on chapter 5 or nothing at all.

>>723133656
Wouldn't remove the possibility, but Noelle does mention that Kris used to play with her almost every day

>>723133858
I have a hope (cope) in my heart Deltarune will acknowledge the author (represented through Gaster) is as much responsible for all the horrible things happening in the story as the player.

>>723133519
Could FRIEND’s implied meddling of Spamton an inversion of Japhet’s parasitism of Valerie?

>>723133632
Good thing I'm not.
>>723133815
>larp
Cope however you want; Robert is still an oikophobe, and like all oikophobes, he judges his culture for failing to live up to a childish imagined perfection.

>>723134041
Oinkophobe? Why would he be afraid of pigs?

>>723133817
This
While the chapters were good they still lacked some elements to be completely satisfying
I want to feel like im peering into something i shouldn't and for that i'm being hunted down

>>723134041
>projection
I accept your concession

>>723133656
What if the make-believe was more than just that?

>>723134107
>Oinkophobe
>hahaha, i'm pretending to be illiterate! that means i win!
Sure, buddy...
>>723134131
>>projection
Where?

>>723133985
Was that parasitism? I remember it basically just being skin suit.

>>723133663
Id assume ACT and everything else (You) dont directly do/say is on Kris. He comes up with stuff and you pick it. You give a command and he finds the best way to follow that command.
>subvert the soul's will while remaining true to the command
I think its probable, but when no one seems to be able to resist (You) for long even with a large amount of will. Id imagine with stuff like >>723133729 that Kris would eventually be forced to give you the prompt you want if Susie asked a couple more times
video link?

>>723134181
>>723133429
>>723134041
you literally watched the game on youtube like a 10 year old i dont care what you think. go jerk off into your dictionary fag

what is noelle's opinion on the king of Israel

>>723133252
The old classroom having toys strewn around actually lines up with King and Seam talking about how The Knight had intervened in their world before creating the Fountain. It was set up for them, for some reason.
Contrast with the Cyber World where The Knight didn't even enter the Dark World at all.
>remember that tenna built his stage over the 'real' dark world
I think this is more of an allegorical statement about the TV World. Tenna is the TV in the living room, he's at the center of a lifetime of experiences for Kris and the Dreemurrs, while he's on everything is warped around him. But without him, it would be a dark and lonely empty house. When the Fun Gang doesn't want to play along anymore, everything starts turning to stone and slipping back into cold reality.

>>723133351
That was just a diversion though, right? Nothing was really stopping The Knight from just grabbing Toriel and running, like they did Undyne. Instead Kris pressures Tenna into keeping everyone busy for as long as possible, and when The Knight finally shows up they make a big show out of taking Toriel and delay things even more by dueling the Fun Gang when they clearly could have overpowered us at any time. Undyne was the mark, Toriel was bait.
It's hard to say exactly what the plan was in Chapter 4, but Toriel wasn't even there and The Knight is just dicking around the whole time, wasting your time, taunting Susie and guarding the Fountain. They didn't seem to be looking for Toriel, like Ralsei was looking for bits of The Prophecy.

>>723134235
>Id imagine with stuff like >>723133729 that Kris would eventually be forced to give you the prompt you want if Susie asked a couple more times
If the options are based on Kris's thoughts that would make sense.
You can only repress a thought so much before it forces itself in, your mind works on reverse psychology like that. Don't think of pink elephants.

>>723134124
Going off what Gerson said, plus the lack of a red soul flower in Asgore's shop and a theory about the 5 stages of grief, I imagined a chapter 5 secret boss which is just a pissed off envious red rose, and it also happens to have a connection to the thorn ring. A battle leaning all in on Flowey callbacks.

Never going to happen but a man can dream.

>>723134235
i dont really remember, maybe this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4cHKITnz1I

>>723134347
>give Robert your money, you bigot!
No.

>>723134352
She thinks he's hot, but is too afraid of what people would think if she admitted she wanted to fuck her best friend's divorced dad.

>>723134235
That reminds me of ch1 light world, there is no way Kris knows about Papyrus or dykephys

Weird and Sword route are for fags

>>723134750
they're for correcting fags

>>723134793
>AAAHHHH KRIS IS EVIL KRIS IS WORKING FOR THE KNIGHT KRIS HATES THE SOUL DESS IS THE KNIGHT NOELLE'S UGLY ASS MOM IS THE KNIGHT ASRIEL IS THE KNIGHT FUUUCCKKKK I LOVE MAKING SHIT UP FOR CLICKS AND STRINGING TOGETHER RANDOM SHIT TO SOUND SMART
Get aids

>>723134793
How can we correct Susie? I want her wearing ribbons.

>>723134954
Make her wear a dress and get her pregnant

>>723134914
Anon-san? That's also in normal route not weird exclusive, sword also mostly reveals that Kris made a deal with Tenna

>>723134914
What are you even talking about? He was making a rape joke

>>723135097
>>723135124
That was separate from my first complaint. I hate these stupid speculations because toby is releasing the game in parts so I have to stay in suspense for literal years

>>723135183
But what does that have to do with the rape joke

>>723135239
Nothing!

>>723135097
>not pregnant with a soul
wrong

>>723135097
She's slowly turning into her mother

>>723135183
I find it odd how Toby seems to write chapters with "you'll go into the next one with a HUGE UNANSWERED QUESTION FROM THE LAST ONE'S ENDING" in mind even when they're designed to be released at the same time
What was the point of Chapter 3 ending on a shelter fakeout?

>>723135183
ah okay, but while Kris is evil is exaggerated, Kris denying you seeing the code is not something a good kid would do

>>723133663
>>723134235
Kris definitely has agency to a larger degree than some people acknowledge, but the Weird Route also conclusively shows that if we're determined enough we can assert ourself over Kris to the point that it's our voice coming out of their mouth and there's absolutely nothing they can do to stop us.
I don't think there's much point in trying to reason out some consistent standard to it, it's ultimately a video game where you can only do exactly what you're allowed to do.

>>723134445
>If the options are based on Kris's thoughts that would make sense.
This seems to be the case sometimes or most of the time, but there's also times where we prompt Kris to say something that wouldn't make sense to them and they clearly don't agree with, and again in the Weird Route it's not like there's a point where Kris is suddenly on board with us raping Noelle, we're literally putting our words in their mouth.

>>723135365
Even worse, he clearly knows chapters don't have to be like this considering he had to slap together the "MY DELTARUNE" speech from Gaster for Chapter 4, which revealed nothing worth stewing over, because originally the package was going to be 3-5.

>>723135097
>mistletoe womb tattoo

>>723135394
>it's not like there's a point where Kris is suddenly on board with us raping Noelle
I think he on some level wanted it, and we simply exploited that deep seated desire to get our way. We basically exploited his intrusive thoughts to get what we wanted.

>>723135365
I think he wants it to feel like an episodic TV show, and those often do end every episode on some kind of cliffhanger.

>>723135267
All according to keikaku

>>723135394
Kris had enough power to tell Noelle to not keep asking questions, i think Kris prefers if no one knows about the Soul rather than tell anyone about it even if Noelle gets hurt and he fucking hates it but has to do it

Ralsei has no object form, otherwise he'd have brought up that Susie could just bring his object to the festival with her and he'd still be experiencing it

>>723135937
He does have an object form, it's just one that's not at all feasible to lug around the festival due to its size and weight.

>>723135937
I still think Ralsei is Kris' knife. We know the knife is precious to him and it was a gift from Asriel.

>>723136070
you think that'd stop susie?

>>723123875 (OP)
Does every piece of cool imagery in this game need to be overanalyzed?

>>723136107
Then Ralsei would still be experiencing the festival because Kris is going and he'd say some cheesy shit like "It may not look like I'm there, but I'll be with you!" to make Susie feel better

>>723135563
>I think he on some level wanted it
I really don't agree with the "intrusive thoughts" framing because it just seems like a way to shift some degree of blame onto Kris for us forcing them to do something that they could not be more clearly against

>>723135769
>i think Kris prefers if no one knows about the Soul rather than tell anyone about it even if Noelle gets hurt and he fucking hates it but has to do it
Okay but what actually happened in that scene was that we used Kris to reveal ourselves to Noelle and force ourself on her. Kris's last attempt to resist us was keeping Noelle's mouth covered and everything after that was all us. Nothing that we made Kris do stopped her from learning about us, it was the exact opposite, which is why Kris has a total meltdown and kicks the shit out of us in the bathroom.

>>723134485
pirate it then wuss

>>723136334
>that they could not be more clearly against
He clearly cares about Noelle, and its heavily implied that there's some latent sexual tension that's been going on between them since childhood. And her dragging him off to her room, alone, and getting all intimate with him only made things worse. Kris may not have wanted to rape her, but he did want to fuck her, has for years, and that was enough for (you) to exploit.

I do think there is an added degree of sadism there though. Kris enjoyed hit, which is why he's so mad. He's always enjoyed tormenting Noelle and watching her squirm, even if it was innocent play. So now that he's doing something genuinely horrible to her, and finding that he still enjoys it, he's disgusted and enraged.

Remember the quote by the mantle, about how it knows Kris on some level enjoyed Snowgrave.

>>723136334
Kris is weird. It seems like he has multiple people/groups using him to their ends and hes only using carol because its convenient or necessary. Otherwise idk why he would care if people know hes being controlled because carol doesnt seem to in the slightest

>>723123875 (OP)
>Queen
Damn...

>>723136904
Kris did not enjoy it and does not enjoy hurting people, especially their friends

>>723137047
What confuses me more about Kris in snowgrave is why he didn't/couldn't throw out the thorn.
It's no longer in the ball of junk when he takes it out of Noelle's finger, so that's not why.
If he chose not to, why? If he wasn't able to, WHY? Prioritizing keeping the SOUL secret is one thing but why does he hold onto the thorn?

>>723136334
Kris did took the blame and told her that the dream was his prank, and i think it applies here as well, and the bathroom there was a timeskip, enough for something to happen between them, my point is, even if you force Kris, he will take all the blame, i'm sure Noelle suspicion is more than confirmed but Kris will try for the opposite for some reason

>>723136904
>taking the words of a literal agent of the devil at face value, one who's probably talking to (You) just as much as it is talking to Kris
Kris enjoys violence, but only when it's performed in safe environments, like movies and videogames. The moment it starts getting "too real" for him, he stops having fun, like when (You) force him to kill the stand-ins for Susie and Ralsei to level up.

>>723125509
>Kris ends up possessed by one of the previous main villains
>Actually he's just pretending
Who?

>>723137315
it might've been a thorn from the rose asgore gave him
can't do shit about it when (you)'re watching

>>723137315
You can't throw away key items :^)

>>723128716
Speaking as a 40K fan...

100% pro skub.

>>723137179
Yes he does, he just can't take what he dishes out. Did you forget all the mean pranks he played on Noelle like hiding under her bed to scare her, covering his arms in ketchup to make her think he was bleeding to death, shaking the ferris wheel, chasing her around the house with a fake heart, telling her Ice-E was real and ate kids. It got to the point where Dess regularly had to beat him with a wiffle ball bat because of how much he did it.

>>723137315
It would be funny if the flower Asgore gave him at the church was the reason why Kris had another thorn lmao

>>723137490
That's probably the best explanation that doesn't rely on something like "duh Gaster did it" or "it just teleported back into his inventory when he tried because reasons"

It's pretty obvious that the FINAL TRAGEDY is THE GIRL sacrificing herself, and it's pretty obvious that given all Jesuss Christ imagery and parallels, Noelle is meant to be THE GIRL.
Original heroes, were YOU (Vessel), Noelle, and Ralsei (there still a possibility that The Prince, too, meant to be someone else, but we leave it be Ralsei for now), with the original story ending with Noelle dying and the world ending with sans escaping into Undertale.
But then this scenari was hijacked by Knight, Kris, and potentially even Carol.
With Kris stealing your role as THE CAGE.
Main reason he and the Knight did that is to save Noelle from getting sacrificing.
And as a replacement they agreed to use Susie, because before chapter 1 Kris saw her as irredeemable bully, and had no problem with her dying (In ORGINAL sceanrio with Vessel and Noelle, Susie served as chapter 1 main antagonist, with it ending you and Noelle beating Susie or alternatively "slaying the dragon")
But since Noelle or YOU went into the dark world in chapter 1, it didn't play out that way, and now the main conflict is that Kris feels conflicted regarding sacrificing Susie, since he now knows how good of a person she is.

>>723137315
>I think everything in his pocket is the ball of junk
>Kris is a retard
>Kris likes poking himself with the thorn because hes a freak
>Toby forgot
Pick one

>>723130457
Do you get a option to punch Gaster?

>>723137573
Noelle can't be the girl because the girl doesn't have antlers.
Anyway, I'm gonna go back to playing Deltarune where the main protagonist is a floating pair of disembodied hands and the dark prince wears the Riverperson hood for the whole game.

>>723137376
>>723137554
I don't understand how people read "Kris liked to prank Noelle" and twist it into "Kris was actually getting off when you violated both of them to the point that she was pissing herself in terror"

>>723137562
while i'm not one of those 'gaster will never be relevant' people, i don't think he has any input on the game (so far at least)
he seems pretty content with just observing, and almost beating the knight is significant enough to actually grab his immediate attention, but asides from that (and the vessel maker) i don't think he's done anything

>>723137509
>Kris's knife is also considered a key item because it's required for Susie to open Second Sanctuary (a guaranteed event, likely backed by the prophecy itself), therefore losing it would completely break the game
>this is how he's able to hide it from us because our DEVICE interface is still running on Undertale metrics and thus has no idea what the fuck a key item menu even is

>>723137671
And the cage prophecy doesn't have an actual human drawn on it, so what? are you retarded?

>>723137376
He stops having fun, but some part of him still enjoys it. He just doesn't like that the fact he does enjoy it, or that he's being made to do it.

>>723137742
I'm mocking the "Noelle can't be the girl" points lol

>>723133515
What the fuck is happening in this image?

>>723137573
Not sure why Ralsei would be so fatalistic about the inevitability of the Prophecy if he knew that they didn't even get two of the Heroes right

>>723137556
>>723137490
does it not sound just as contrived?
>asgores makes a bouqet that he hasn't dethorned
>thorns are right where kris holds it
>kris breaks off a thorn himself for some reason (this is a big one)

>>723135097
Somebody should make a edit of that one hentai manga.

You know the one.

>>723137789
Shit, aorry about that, sometimes those threads just get so low IQ that it's genuinely possible to mistake a bait for an actual opinion someone posted in here.

>>723137828
He's aware of the game mechanics, YOU, all the prophecy, knew Susie and Kris names and etc.
It's genuinely possible that again, Ralsei simply lived through multiple scenarios of how it all played out, which is why he has so much knowledge, and why he is so pessimistic regardless it working since the previous attempts failed too.

>>723137376
I disagree, I think Kris is a sadist by nature but simply one with a sense of right and wrong and the ability to care for his friends. He does on some level enjoy hurting Noelle, Eram even says as much, but he also hates himself for feeling that way.

>>723137678
Like I said, mostly Eram.

>>723137678
I don't think Kris likes it, but in my defense, it's not like Kris couldn't do anything about it
>Kris can remove the SOUL to prevent you seeing the code
>Kris can bite his hand to prevent saying something
and you could say, ''Kris has less power in weird'', but for me it's more likely that keeping the SOUL a secret is top priority, he doesn't like hurting Noelle but there was no other way other than proceed

>>723137830
I dunno it still makes more sense than the thorn getting magically absorbed into the ball of junk, or being inexplicably undroppable even though weapons aren't key items

>>723137678
Kris liked to scare Noelle, he would do it until she cried, and likely would've kept doing it had Dess not intervened; he sexual feelings towards Noelle, and has had them for years; and he knows she gets off to being scared.

Combine that with the Mantle dialogue and I think that's a reasonable conclusion.

Let's not forget that Noelle actually was getting off to all of this.

>>723137990
>Kris enjoys hurting Noelle
>Noelle enjoys being hurt
they really are perfect for each other

>>723138259
They are minus the part where Kris doesn't want to hurt people.

>>723137830
Honestly i like it only because it would be funny if Asgore the Divorced was the reason why Spamtom and ch4 Kris had a item that ruined both of their lives

>>723138290
He does though. He just doesn't want to seriously hurt people, only minor stuff, and even then that's only consciously. Subconsciously he just likes hurting people.

>>723138362
Which btw, the ThornRing is implied to be a marriage ring, a divorced man giving a metaphorically marriage ring? suspicious coincidence

>>723138587
>a divorced man giving a metaphorically marriage ring?
Are you talking about Spamton or Asgore?

>>723137849
I'm sure you mean this one

>>723138764
You know me too well.

>>723137997
I think it might be more reasonable to assume that the magical burst of evil nightmare shit that rushes over the room as soon as we reveal ourself to Noelle could indicate that we're asserting ourself over Kris more than normal and they can't do a goddamn thing about it
Our usual level of control affects Kris to the point that their close friends and family notice that something is off about them, they sound different and they don't have the freedom to do things like play the piano to the best of their ability. We are capable of relaxing our control enough to let Kris play the piano freely, it is necessary to do so to progress through Chapter 4.
We can also go in the other direction and clamp down on Kris harder, enough that they can no longer resist us. We can take away Kris's voice and speak through their mouth. This is the "terrifying voice" that Noelle hears during Snowgrave and resurfaces when we reveal ourself to her in her room. It's not the way that Kris's voice is usually off when we're controlling them (Noelle isn't terrified when we talk to her at the Church, or later if you abort the route), it's the voice of the SOUL using Kris as our vessel. As Chara would say, we are the one in control. Kris can resist us as much as we allow them to do it. When we're determined to make them do something, there's nothing they can do to stop us. Not even getting knocked unconscious.

>>723138714
I would say both, because of the gay shit between Tenna and Spamton, he calls the ThornRing [commemorative ring]

>>723138914
>Our usual level of control affects Kris to the point that their close friends and family notice that something is off about them,
Unironically that can be because Kris is actually acting normal though. His default state of mind pre chapter 1 seemed to be "Waiting to die".

>>723138587
The ThornRing is an actual flower thorn in the Light World

>>723138914
>the magical burst of evil nightmare shit that rushes over the room
Nta, but I figured that was something like Noelle's ice powers manifesting in the light world due to her extreme mental duress.

>terrifying voice
Noelle's conversation with Susie indicates that this is just how Kris always sounds when you're controlling him, which is why Susie says it seems normal to her.

>>723139032
Ye i know, but just like a pencil becomes a sword, the flower/thorn becomes a ring

I hope that after we use up Noelle, Kris straight up kills themselves like Kratos at the end of God of War 1.

>>723138914
I know, the thing is after the couch just like he can prevent you from seeing the code, he could also have tried damage control again, keeping the soul a secret seems to be really important

>>723139242
I think the loss of either Noelle, Susie or Asriel in addition to losing a hand ("I will never play piano again) would be enough to send him over the edge. Combine it with other psychological torture from being possessed and it will be a top-tier tragedy.

>>723139090
>Noelle's conversation with Susie indicates that this is just how Kris always sounds when you're controlling him
No, it isn't. Noelle is not suddenly terrified and struck with the realization that her nightmare was real when you have Kris (possessed) talk to her in the Church after Snowgrave. The way that Kris sounds when you're controlling them is different from how YOU sound when YOUR voice is coming out of their mouth, or going directly into Noelle's head.

Does anyone know if Toby still checks his email? I sent him something important (or I believe so at least) on the Undertalegame one, but I'm not sure if he'll respond or at least read it.

>>723139665
do not harass toby with your yagi schizophrenia

Are there any other fandoms that say plot predictions are "debunked" because they contradict shit they literally made up to the extent that Deltarune's does?

>>723139506
At this point Kris has like 4 voices? the soulless Kris that Noelle recognizes after a long time, possessed Kris but words coming from his mouth and making choices for Kris voice

>>723139874
FNaF

>>723139874
I don't remember other episodic games other than those huggy wuggy games for people to predict the plot, maybe fnaf? but also from what i read people say that Scott makes shit up as he made the games

>>723140008
>but also from what i read people say that Scott makes shit up as he made the games
Some people will militantly deny that.

>>723139874
are there any other fanboys whose plot predictions are just an inane tug-of-war between "toby would never write something so trite and predictable! it's clearly a red herring" and "toby would never write something so contrived and unpredictable! it's clearly a set up"?

>>723140094
I'm no FNAF lore expert but the fact that "The Bite of 87" built up throughout the games was just some random irrelevant shit, while the big climactic bite in 4 was a completely different event really makes it sound that way.

>>723133656
>kris took the laptop home
So they were kids in 1997?

>>723139874
What predictions are you referring to?

>>723140265
More likely Spamton is so out of touch that he doesn't even know what year it is.

Did we ever decide why the Titan has a realistic human head?

>>723140094
1 was supposed to be his last game, so anything that came after that was 100% not intended with the first game
i would argue scott had a rough plan with 2 and 3, i fully believe that the guard in 2 was supposed to be the bite victim in that game and 3 really does feel the most like a proper ending
iirc 4 was a knee jerk reaction to people being disappointed with the jumpscares in 3, and is when the 'lore' went from kinda sorta believable + ghosts to full on sci fi nonsense
i get that it's scott's thing but he really should've just disconnected 4 onward from the prior 3, the retcon of every night guard asides from the main one in 2 all being the same guy is stupid

I drew some Deltarune characters from memory
How did I do?

>>723140603
kek'd at ramb's angry overalls face

>>723140562
Most common theory is that since we're controlling Kris, we see what his equivalent of "the terrifying thing that goes bump in the night" is, which in this case would be another human, given his pre-existing discomfort with seeing humans, possibly even extending to the traumatic event that the Forgotten Man is attempting to therapy him through.

>>723140265
there was a theory after ch2 that the game took place in 2007/8ish and that dess went missing in 1997
this clearly isn't the case anymore but at the time it seemed plausible, but now it seems like it's supposed to take place in 2021ish, based on noelle's amogus reference

>>723140603
Spamton's eyes are fucked

>>723140579
5 was when the scifi nonsense started, 4 was "it was all a dream".

>>723140692
Personally, I think it takes place in 2018

He ruined an entire generation of women

>>723139757
what's yagi

>>723140742
5 is when it became really overt but iirc there was some weird stuff going on in 4 to begin with
it was also when the suits went from almost believable to total nonsense, although i think they were over the top on purpose
rip nightmare foxy's tongue

>>723140810
i think ralsei's manual says 20XX, although i wouldn't be surprised if dr was originally supposed to take place in the late '10s

>>723131285
The original trailer for chapters 3 and 4 had Kris in the Second Sanctuary with normal dark world colors for the spinning ball animation.
That's not including all the other visual inconsistencies (Ralsei's horns pointing inwards or outwards, Kris's knife being a combat knife or kitchen knife, Susie's teeth and eyes being white or yellow)

>>723141048
IIRC it says 202X actually

>>723140562
ebin barkley reference

>>723141204
there's also the ending of chapter 1 which is the only time when Kris has the same color despite being in the dark (and the cage too I guess) so if that's on purpose then he glowed for some reason (even if it's probably to make both stand out more for dramatic effect)

>Chara fell down in 202X
>Frisk presumably falls down into the underground a century or two later.
>World is shown to be fairly futuristic at the end of Undertale.
>This implies Undertale takes place at the same time as Deltarune.
>But Noelle, Dess, and Suzy are all alive way later than they should be.
Wonder if this will ever be explained.

>>723141364
he glew

>>723131765
>Gerson in Undertale points out that you can't hurt him because he's in his shop
>He isn't in his shop window in Deltarune so you can fight him
I was still hoping there would be more to that on weird route, like actually getting a real fight instead of a spar

>>723141484
>I was still hoping there would be more to that on weird route, like actually getting a real fight instead of a spar
Issue is no lightners to kill.

Killing darkners is so impersonal. It's like snapping your little brothers toy. It's fun in the moment, but you are doing it mostly for his tears afterwards .

>>723141330
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxDRxNwgRgA

>>723141403
Different universes, different rules. Deltarune just happens to exist in a continuity where the characters are older, because it lets Toby tell more of a story compared to how limited he'd be if they were all around the age of Frisk, Chara and Asriel in Undertale.

>>723141561
I know, it's just weird.

Does make me wonder if Chara would have turned out better or worse if they had a friend like Suzy or a big sis like Dess.

>>723141474
they really are a pair

>>723141659
iirc chara's major malfunction stemmed from her awful life before falling into mt ebott
it's anyone's guess how she turned out in deltarune, i personally like the idea that she meets asriel in college but i highly doubt chara or frisk will ever be hinted at in deltarune, let alone named

>>723141403
Some aspects of UT and DR's timelines aren't compatible with each other when you imagine them as parallels
MK and Noelle show us that teens in Deltarune are kids in Undertale, Asriel probably isn't that much older than Kris, but Catty and Bratty are adults in both Undertale and Deltarune with their Deltarune selves aligning with Asriel's age

>Noelle will get stronger
>Noelle becomes stronger
What the hell happens later to make (You) so fixated on this?

>>723141827
i don't even think (you) know why
just that (you) can do it, so it's done

>>723141789
>iirc chara's major malfunction stemmed from her awful life before falling into mt ebott
True, but I do think Asriel being kind of a wuss didn't help matters.

I'm honestly assuming Chara, and to a lesser extent Frisk, are just meant to be Kris. Otherwise, agree I like the college theory.

>>723141827
She's the weak point in the entire story. The one factor you can control.

Ralsei is too loyal to lighteners. Susie is Susie. Kris is a scheming little bastard. But Noelle can't say no.

>>723141887
kris is 100% supposed to parallel chara, with frisk it's a little harder to say outside of them being the controllable character
iirc there was an old theory that kris was just chara but in deltarune, and the reason for the name difference was that kris was adopted as a baby/ toddler, while chara met the dreemurs as an older child
i don't think it'll happen, but i really do wish that we meet another human in the story, if just to see kris and everyone else's reaction to a foreign human

>>723141789
The 10th anniversary stream only made me more convinced that Kris is literally Deltarune Chara

>>723141798
Also remember that Asgore, Toriel, Gerson and technically Asriel and Chara are probably hundreds of years old in Undertale
This is probably not the case anymore in Deltarune's setting

>>723141827
She's the second best vessel for your uncompromised will, even if the only way to express it is to be fucked up in doing so.
First best would be your actual discarded vessel, but we all know it's not coming back into our control until the best ending epilogue so we can finally directly speak with everyone and meet them proper, Kris included.

>>723141827
When I first played snowgrave I didn't like that I had to rely on another person to do my bidding properly, but in retrospect as >>723142160 says, she is a better vessel, more willing to do what is being said. While Krist works against my own interests.

>>723140996
4 was explicitly meant to be all the nightmares of a dying child. All the weird stuff was dream related. Everything else was completely mundane retcons of previously fantastic elements in the real world segments.
>The corpses in the suits were just a kid misinterpreting employees putting on the mascot costumes
>The animatronics were killers because the kid was scared of them
>Foxy acts erratic because he asshole brother liked to scare him with a foxy mask
>Springtrap was a beat up plush
>Mangle was a broken doll
>Every previous game were just more nightmares
5 retconned all of these nightmares to be hallucinations caused by high frequency sounds

>>723141403
Gerson and Asgore are the same age in UT, but a few decades apart in DR. Different universes, different timelines.

>>723142276
'it was all a dream' has always been a shit storytelling 'twist' and has been a blight ever since the hack who came up with it published it
i don't know what the hell scott was thinking with that one, should've ended the series with 3, or at the very least taken a longer break and make a come back a year later like he intended to

>>723142276
Eh, debatable? FNAF World was actually supposed to be the neat bow on top of everything after 4 through the Clock Route, the fact you set up the minigames and secrets of FNAF3 that prep its good ending indicates everything that happened in 1-3 DID happen in reality, and FNAF World could be seen as helping Crying Child finally come to terms with everything through an idealized lens (with Fredbear coming to collect him by breaking the facade to remind him he has somewhere more important to be) so he can join the others in the Happiest Day, finally letting all of those dead fuckers move on and find their peace.

>>723141827
Its not what happens later, but the hope that something will happen later. This is a change, something happening that shouldn't, and (you) are exploiting it.

>>723141798
>>723142410
Burgerpants is also exactly 19 in Undertale and his Deltarune counterpart seems to have been classmates with Asriel, which wouldn't line up with the established pattern of kids in Undertale being older in Deltarune because Asriel is probably around 19 himself.

>>723141887
I think Kris is the AU equivalent of both Frisk and Chara, sort of like how JoJo part 8 mixed a bunch of characters' roles together.

>>723142447
Unfortunately, he went straight into World because people didn't like the plot, then into SIster Location because people didn't like World, and Sister Location is what sent everything into crazy land.
>>723142525
Every game rewrites the lore and completely recontextualizes all the previous games. So World got rid of 4's dream theory because everyone hated it, and then lead into Sister Location.

>>723142939
what is this an edit of?

>>723142620
Oh and also Snowdrake.
He's a teen in Undertale and a teen in Deltarune.
I think there's more than enough evidence to say Deltarune isn't meant to be 1:1 with any point in Undertale's timeline, even if a few parts are consistent.

>>723128716
Pro-slash, but Kris did that with good intentions.

>>723142983
No clue.
I made it a while back using the blank from someone on Twitter, but when I just checked my original post, the original guy's post was deleted.
It's been too long for me to remember who was originally in the image, too, but I know a couple edits were things like Metroid and Zelda.

I am fully convinced this son of a bitch is the knight. Before the release of CH 3 + 4 I thought it was Dess, but with the new chapters it just seems wrong. Too much of a red herring.
How can Asgore have a shadow crystal? Why wouldn't Rudy have some and is using them? The knight crying and its fucked up chest. The knight being able to go to the light world. The knight seeming to have some sort of "understanding" with Kris.
This sickly motherfucker is destroying his body in the light world to do some fuck shit in the dark world trying to rescue his daughter.

>>723138914
>the magical burst of evil nightmare shit
You mean the Tension?

>>723143605
>the funny, sickly side character is actually super strong
It's the exact trope Toby would pull

>>723142113
>iirc there was an old theory that kris was just chara but in deltarune
That's honestly still my go to theory, especially with there being plenty of other timeline fuckery.

>but i really do wish that we meet another human in the story, if just to see kris and everyone else's reaction to a foreign human
Reminds me of a fanfic/greentext I should be writing...

>>723142656
Certainly possible also well.

>>723142983
it's this according to know your meme

>>723124319
Waking up is a terrible thing, it's also what's happening on the weird route, once she realizes that she's grasping real power instead of one held in her fantasies Noelle will suffer from amazing amounts of character development really fast and become the undeniably best girl

Imagine thinking Kris is a bad person for siding with his childhood friend instead of a person who did this to him two days ago.

>>723144364
>Childhood friend
Dess never cared about Kris. He always just saw him as a annoying thing noelle kept around like a pet.

>>723125764
>Kris will automatically change his heat towel and increase the room's radiator without you explicitly telling him to
That sounds like one of those bullshit checks where going into the hospital there knocks you off the route later on because Berdly comes back

>>723137472
You know who

>>723144298
She's undeniably worst girl rn. I'll believe it when I see it

>>723144409
Kris doesn't know that. And you don't, either. dess could have easily been the one to teach Kris how to play piano

>>723132008
Chapter 3's troubled development probably took a toll on the rest of the game is what I'd assume, even Castle town was strangely gimped

>>723144409
We literally don't know enough about Dess to have a clear judgment of who she was or what she thought about anything, but it's abundantly clear that whatever the case may be, Kris cares enough a deal to outright supersede our control over him when it regards potentially gaining information related to The Roaring Knight, who has an extremely deep connection to Dess.

>>723145764
Especially didn't help with the Switch 2 fuckery, I'd imagine, it's pretty clear Deltarune was significantly snagged by the Switch 2 getting delayed because Nintendo wanted him to use and show off the new Joycon mouse tech, which is how we got the Mike Fight and related minigames.

>>723123875 (OP)
Knowing Toby it's just a shitty 'quirky' joke about how Queen is misunderstanding Noelle being into rope binding.

>>723134235
>Kris would eventually be forced to give you the prompt you want if Susie asked a couple more times
My interpretation of this moment is that it demonstrates a mutual understanding between You and Kris that Susie is not to be told anything.

>>723124319
...Mike Tyson?

>>723144409
Yeah sure

>>723128716
I interpret "how could you" not just as Ralsei being shocked as Kris doing it, but also literally asking "how" in the sense that Kris should not be able to do that.

>>723146517
Dess is just stringing him along.

Bros there might be no chapter 5

>>723128716
file being named "knghts slash" i probably confirmation it was Knight attacking with some back attack

>>723146976
Kris being arrested for what crime?

>>723138041
>he sexual feelings towards Noelle
Where is this implied?

>>723137678
The Mantle discussion in the weird vidya part of the TV chapter explicitly states Kris is a little bit fucked up and that he used to enjoy doing shit like playing that kind of game.
The only reason he flinches away now is because shit is getting too real for him.

>>723147042
enjoying a succulent monster meal

>>723147042
rape of a teenage deer

The part of Deltarune chapter 5 where Susie unbirths Kris and is like FUCK KRIS, YOU'RE REALLY THE FRIEND INSIDE ME.

The part of Deltarune chapter 5 where in weird route, Noelle does this to Kris but keeps on shouting "Kris you promised" over and over again.

>>723147390
Wouldn't that just be dust?

>>723147258
>and that he used to enjoy doing shit like playing that kind of game.
Him and Noelle are perfect for each other...

>>723147847
who said he killed anyone?

>>723141827 #
Potential for deer sex.

Actually, nothing. We do it because we can. And because we can, we have to.

>>723147920
If you cut a piece of Noelle and eat it, im assuming it would still turn into dust.

>>723148026
who said he cut anyone?

>>723147894
In a funny way they really are. Noelle and Kris have this kind of weird, sub-dom pairing energy that's very hard to pin down if you're not in with the subculture.
Noelle loves to be scared then comforted, Kris loves to scare people but isn't a cruel person.
Whenever Susie isn't part of the proceedings their back and forth is an adorable push and pull between them.

Ironically Carol might've shot herself in the foot by trying to nudge them together since while they've got a natural chemistry and lots of overlapping interests, anything they do have in common can be written off by Noelle as 'Oh that's just mom forcing it'
And what teenager listens to their parents really?

The things these women will do once they're free from their dead weight husbands

>>723128716
Pro-Slash because I love edgy humans.

>>723148826
Carol would never be caught dead with that drunken whore Toriel

>>723124452
That's not really the vibe I'm getting. Susie's life has MASSIVELY improved because of shared escapism. It's just that it can be bad if you're doing it alone.

>>723133817
We literally got the Mike fight???

>>723148826
>dead weight husbands
The ones busy sucking each other's faces?

>>723133515
Would Chara have a rape fetish?

>>723141827
(I) have a fetish for strong women and am willing to groom girls into becoming stronger for my perverse goals.

>>723144409
isnt dess a girl?

>>723137804
It's piss fetish shit. For some reason Japanese women like to draw Frisk and Chara holding their piss.

>>723148112
Honestly, Carol isn't even the issue. Kris autism is the main thing getting in the way right now. Noelle is basically Kris's if he can proof that he is willing to be protective and caring as well.

>>723128716
Its pretty obvious that you're supposed to read it as being Kris. Toriel having a nightmare is the most blatant evidence, since its said later that she has a sixth sense when Kris is doing something 'wrong'.
>H-.... HOW COULD YOU...
Why would ralsei say that to the knight? He knows how shit is supposed to go. He knows we're supposed to lose to the KNIGHT.
What gets him emotional is that its not the knight doing it. He was given a sliver of hope and he sees Kris crushing it right in front of his eyes.

>>723149356
>That's not really the vibe I'm getting
It will probably end up being "Escapism is fine, good even, but you do need to keep it under control". Which is the same message as Undertale, frankly. Just more spelled out.

>>723141403
Undertale's timeline doesn't fit with Deltarune. Frisk is the same age as Undertale Noelle, showing that she's younger, yet Burgerpants is the same age in both universes. Don't think too hard about it

>>723149561
Chara's fetishes seems to be:
Incest.
Knife play.
Self harm.
Roleplaying.

Possibly femdom as well, but that might just be natural for any girl hanging around Asriel. It just happens.

>>723149782
Ew, not my fetish.

>>723149876
>Why would ralsei say that to the knight? He knows how shit is supposed to go. He knows we're supposed to lose to the KNIGHT.
Why would Ralsei say that to Kris and then go back to everything being just fine next chapter without any qualm or query?

What are (You) going to do to Kris once you get your own vessel back?

>>723150003
give him the asgore special (slapping his shit in then SPAREing him)

>>723149979
I mean he probably already knows Kris is a double agent. He even says something like “our fight is just beginning, isn’t that right Kris?” after you lose to the knight

>>723145913
I just hope it's that and not Toby thinking it's unimportant, like if we have to at some point let go of Castle Town, then narratively speaking it's a no-brainer if all we can do is talk to wacky NPC #12 a couple times before their dialogue loops

>>723149979
Because its blatant that they have some agreement behind (YOU)r back to not air out important details to Susie and the player. That doesn't mean Ralsei agrees with everything Kris is doing, just that his hands are tied.
I imagine this dynamic will be explored and detailed later on once Susie gets a gist of what is happening, be it a Susie crashout or something else.

>>723150132
>I mean he probably already knows Kris is a double agent.
So why would Ralsei say that to Kris?

>>723149867
>Carol isn't even the issue
I disagree. The entire crux of the Queen arc was Noelle feeling that Carol is a helicoptering Tigermom who is smothering her and trying to force her into things she thinks she wants that she doesn't actually want (Or at least, thinks she doesn't want)

One could argue that the entire reason Noelle is down so hard on Susie is that she's the forbidden fruit, the Mom Would Freak If I Brought This One Home™
If this were real life and Carol suddenly turned on Kris and started going 'He's a bad influence I don't want him around you any more, you can't talk to him, stay away from that boy', ect, ect? Noelle would be thinking about Kris all the time and recontextualize their entire history together into Kris being the one she's down so bad for without even realizing she did it.

To parallel what Toby said about Susie resting her chin on your head.
Noelle is the kind of girl who gets sweaty around a red hot stove, not because it's warm, but because she knows she shouldn't touch it but kind of wants to regardless.

>>723149961
I wonder what fetishes Frisk would have...
And yeah, I hate that fetish, too. Pic related was ruined because of it.

>>723141827
Don't worry about it, we'll all know in a swift 5 years!

>>723141827
Why are you assuming the interdimensional demon primarily concerned with amusing itself has a long-term plan?

Any other fan songs/arrangements with vocals?
https://youtu.be/PHLysedLBlI

>>723150286
Because he knows that they're trying to make the prophecy happen.

>>723153690
Stronger than you? (All five million versions of it).

>>723124514
>wildly swinging sword at everything to try and progress
>accidently hit both susie and ralsei at the same time
wonder what kris thought about that one

>>723154568
I did the same thing, except I didn't even realize I killed them. I just thought getting the sword gave you the level needed to progress. Only in a replay I noticed I fucked up.

https://youtu.be/gYziujme4RY

>when Kris learns the backwards long jump

>>723131253
Points like this really make this theory one of the more "theorizing for the sake of theorizing" theories for this waiting cycle.

>>723133107
I'm interested in the idea that Card Kingdom, Cyber World, and TV World all used to be in one mega dark world in Kris's house.

>>723133817
Chapter 5 is the last secret boss (to have a Shadow Crystal) as confirmed by Seam himself. Not sure what could be in store for Chapter 6, much less Chapter 7, but I'm hoping it will be a nice return to form of schizos like Jevil and Spamton (and ERAM) before we get the further-beyond schizos.

>>723140603
That shit's glooby as fuck, anon.

>>723128716
>H... how could you...
Does anybody have Ralsei's line here in Japanese?
Better yet is there a repository for all the Japanese lines with some signifier towards what scene they belong to?

>>723153935
No, as in why would he say "how could you" if he knew Kris was a double agent?

>>723140603
You are my hero, MS paint anon.

What’s the meaning behind these color schemes?

>>723156750
https://hushbugger.github.io/deltarune/text/?lang=both
ヒドい… どうして…
"How terrible.. why.." Just as ambiguous.

>>723156750
You can find all the text of the game here:
https://hushbugger.github.io/deltarune/text/

There's an option at the top to show both english and japanese, which pairs the lines up.
Here's Ralsei's Japanese line in that moment:
>* H... how could you...
>* ヒドい… どうして…
Romanized it'd be:
>Hido i… dōshite…
So slightly different as he's saying "That's horrible... Why..."

>>723156750
https://hushbugger.github.io/deltarune/text/
Need to translate it yourself though, and a lot of text is in hiragana and/or katakana instead of kanji. That line is roughly "how cruel... why..."
imo what the slash theorists always miss is Ralsei's dialogue after that fight, where he admitted he was hoping they could beat the Knight right there and end everything. So his reaction makes more sense realizing the Knight was just toying with them only to cruelly snatch away their hopes.

>>723156750
https://hushbugger.github.io/deltarune/text/
has both english and japanese, and even an option to display them together.

>>723156978
thanks doc and FREEDOM, respectively

>>723157045
>* ...
>* Somehow, I thought we... had won... for a moment...
>* That... we would be able to end the battle... here and now...
>* ... you...
>* You were so brave... and yet...
>* In the end... our struggle...
>* It's only beginning, isn't it...?
>* ... Isn't it, Kris...?
I can see how it'd work both ways. The straightforward and more simple interpretation is as you stated, just that he realized the Knight was too powerful.
But the other way that's more out there is to note how he specifies Kris at the end there. Basically the bulk of it is more him talking to (You) while at the end he's saying it's just beginning and specifically pointing that line at Kris, cause Kris made sure that was the case.
Basically the pro-Kris Slash interpretation is that he's rationalizing what Kris did like he's a beaten housewife.

>>723130501
>This is one of the many times where we're simply not allowed to see what Kris is doing
The little fatass probably closed his eyes

>>723157297
>Closed his eyes and used some secret sword technique
Wow its just like my japanese animes!!!!

>>723133286
Kris is mischievous but has a moral compass unlike the angel

>>723144646
It seems that way, but it should be noted that only happens if you interact with Berdly in the hospital room. You can still go there. The subtext seems to be that Kris is using the player's habit of incessantly interacting with everything against you.

>>723149979
This one question short-circuits krisslash fags. They literally have no answer for this.

>>723130501
>I also don't think there's much difference between Kris stabbing Susie in the back or Kris standing by and letting The Knight do it. Either way Kris betrayed the party and Ralsei saw it happen but keeps quiet about it.
Biggest difference would be just about how strong Kris really is and how deep their loyalty to the Knight is.
If Kris did it, that means Kris is hiding some serious power. Could be the Real Knife they have or something else that they're holding back from us even in Weird Route.
And there's a pretty big difference between "I'll look away while you hurt my friends" and "I'll actively hurt my friends myself to serve you". Kris' loyalty to the Knight being so deep they'd hurt Susie over it says a lot about how deep in the sauce they are here.

>>723144646
Nah, the weird route is very obvious about the escape switch being during the conversation with Noelle, the stuff with Berdly is more flavour to make it clear Kris isn't in favour of what you've done.

>>723157280
>Basically the pro-Kris Slash interpretation is that he's rationalizing what Kris did like he's a beaten housewife.
Main reason why I don't buy this is because of how many times Ralsei has done the "just close your eyes and think about something else so we can chat without the player hearing" trick, and we can infer from what little we could overhear that part of it was Ralsei relaying information to Kris. So it's not a case where Kris is just leading Ralsei along like a dog on a leash, they're both in on what's going on.

>>723128716
Firmly against. It's the last cope of Kris Knight believers. It's nonsensical and adds nothing to the story.

>>723157045
>>723157280
>So his reaction makes more sense realizing the Knight was just toying with them only to cruelly snatch away their hopes.
Not really.
I've thought of another possibility there. Maybe Ralsei thought it was US who did the attack instead of thinking it was Kris on his own. And he still looked at Kris because
1. He was already turned towards Susie concerned about her, why bother doing a full 180 turn towards the screen
2. It's not like he ALWAYS has to look towards the screen to address us cause the Heart still represents us which is, as far as he knows, always inside Kris
3. Having Ralsei turn all the way to us would make things too obvious
So when Kris talks to him after the fight it's possible Ralsei thought we did the attack which is why he specifies Kris there at the end believing Kris simply wasn't able to fight against our control. Makes sense why he'd ask "How could you.../ Why(Japanese)" in slight confusion cause we haven't really exhibited that kind of behavior previously, but it's not like Ralsei trusts us in the first place as shown in the scenes he's talking Kris into thinking about something else so that we don't see what they're talking about.
This would also explain why he doesn't question Kris about the attack.

>>723149979
>>723157732
He says it there cause he's breaking character. He puts up with Kris' shit and knows all this is an act for the most part, like how he half-heartedly tries to talk to the Knight when you tell him to even though he knows it's meaningless.
Seeing Kris hit Susie was enough of a shock that made him temporarily break, asking how he could be so cruel, only to then get smacked himself.

Afterwards, he rationalizes that he was wrong for hoping they could win and accepting Kris' choice. That's why he doesn't mention it again, he knows that this is something in their "don't fucking talk about it in front of the player" things.
Kris is openly violent in keeping the secrets from the player. They seem to threaten Spamton the moment he mentions "communion with the Knight" given Spamton's sudden tone shift after, and they do more damage to Tenna if you go through SWORD Route, which includes Tenna revealing he had a deal with Kris.

>>723158085
Not even Ralsei would be stupid enough to think we'd attack Susie after a lengthy boss fight of trying to beat the Knight. If we could do that, we'd attack the Knight, not Susie. This is only taking in mind our actions which Ralsei can see and was part of during that fight.

>>723157919
>It's the last cope of Kris Knight believers
I mean, even if you don't believe in Kris-Slash, Kris still clearly is working with the Knight actively. Kris Knighters were at least right that Kris was doing things the Knight was supposed to be doing, they were just wrong about Kris being the Knight rather than working for it.

>>723158102
At a certain point you're just writing fanfiction to justify your grimdark edgelord theory. You realize that, right? You took three words "How could you" and wrote two paragraphs trying to justify how they could mean anything except what they obviously mean.

>>723156978
forbidden knowledge that'll force you to comprehend that a furry YA adventure has absolutely nothing to do with color associations
you lot are worse than fucking numerologists

>>723133729
This is the peak of Toby's gamecraft at the moment btw

>>723128716
This fandom is so schizophrenic

>>723158273
>KRIS-SLASH FAGS CAN'T ANSWER THIS QUESTION
>Provide an answer to the question
>YOU'RE DELUSIONAL AND WRITING FANFICTION
Great counterpoint.

>>723158241
Explain Kris hesitating before attacking the Knight in the church dodge sequence

>>723136334
Little slugger wants the doe and the dino

>>723158376
That's correct, writing fanfiction is not an answer. I accept your concession.

>>723156490
I still fully expect Chapter 6 to be "the intended ending".
That's where the Lord of the Hammer "just ends". Chapter 7 is us making it past that ending like Gerson wanted.

I think the "normal" path will end at Chapter 6 with a shitty ending. Then the other routes will have ways past it:
>Pacifist validates Ralsei's belief that being nice enough makes a difference
>Shadow Crystals somehow lead us to FREEDOM from the story
>Weird Route has us force our way through

>>723133515
Chara didn't she has good taste

>>723158241
There's no reason for him to believe that we wouldn't do that though. And it confuses him but that's exactly the point, the "How could you.../ Why" line is there for a reason. Why the hell would he be confused as to why the Knight attacked them?
He's confused about what our reason would be at that point but he'd dismiss that as a
>we simply don't know the Heart's plans, maybe it's just toying with us

Which also makes the dialogue towards Kris after the fight make more sense, as well as why he doesn't question the attack. Ralsei thinking it was us answers THAT, as well as why he'd be confused about the attack

>>723140682
>LOVE FINDS IT WAY TO THE GIRL (soul enters susie for late game)
>titan (which is treated as a midboss at this point because everyone is so powerful) it looks like her dad

>>723158435
Why would I need to explain something completely unrelated to the point I was arguing? I know Kris is working with the Knight, that point's not in dispute. I disagree that Kris was the one who slashed the party for multiple reasons. But the post I was arguing against >>723158085 specifically argued Ralsei thought the player was the one who commanded Kris to attack Susie, which wouldn't make sense for any reason whatsoever, and has absolutely nothing to do with Kris hesitating in the church.
>>723158698
Why the fuck would he, after seeing us obediently control Kris to close the fountains and fight the bad guys, including fighting the Knight, think that we'd suddenly randomly out of nowhere command Kris to slash Susie? It doesn't make sense at all.

>>723140524
last thursdayism, spamton is created from a printed out spam email and remembers 1997 as his best year because that was when the spambot that send the original email was most successul

>>723146517
I found this organically and it blew my mind

>>723149876
The knight is kris from tha futur

I'll show you REAL Schizo fanfiction!

>>723158501
Toby will NEVER be that based.

>>723159107
tity

>>723159107
Honestly if you drew both Frisk and Chara you would be even more of my GOAT, but you're still my hero.

>>723156327
Kris likely abandoned Card Kingdom which is why King fucking hates Lightners, i think Kris borrowed shit over the town to play in his house

>>723159053
Replace Dess with Asriel and that's unironically my theory.

>>723159107
More hyper titty Chara

>>723159107
>Black hair Chara.
Unf

>>723149979
They talked it out during the time skip between chapter 3 and 4. There's a large amount of dark world stuff including them sealing the fountain that we just didn't get to see.

>>723158845
>Why the fuck would he, after seeing us obediently control Kris to close the fountains and fight the bad guys, including fighting the Knight, think that we'd suddenly randomly out of nowhere command Kris to slash Susie?
I've already mentioned the game show signs Ralsei doesn't trust us through the scenes in which he tries to talk to Kris one-on-one by making Kris think of something else.
You keep going off on the idea that Ralsei sees us to good things and make everyone happy thus he believes we're good, but there's nothing implying us being the happy Soul recruiting everyone is the canon route. There's nothing implying a weird/violence route is canon either but that's the point: we're some weird entity that could go either way.

>damn, that Soul is acting weird, it didn't do something like that before but... it's not like we know what it wants and what plans it has. You tried your best fighting against it, didn't you Kris, let's be careful from now on
that makes more sense to me than
>Oh no Kris why did the Knight who's been trying to kill us one-shot Susie just now (looking shocked at Kris)
if it wasn't Kris or
>Kris you were so brave... and yet... you attacked us. Whatever I'll just ignore that and not question it
if it was him

>>723159376
>>723159053
Asriel was likely supposed to be a part of Prophecy. Also my own theory is that people already tried to fulfill prophecy decades ago, which resulted in Carol getting snowgraved and Mr. Cattenheimer losing his arm (just like Berdly does in Violent Normal Route).

>>723159517
It's not even a case of whether Ralsei trusts us or thinks we're good because it's obvious to me at least that they're trying to string us along and wrangle us into doing the plot. But Ralsei think that us, the player, being the one to slash Susie is so incongruous and nonsensical that something stupid like "what if Chara possessed Kris to do it" is legitimately a theory that makes more sense. After the actions that Ralsei knows we've taken, us randomly overriding Kris to 1HKO Susie and Ralsei would be a major 5-alarm "what the fuck is going on here" panic mode event, not something Ralsei would just take in stride.

>>723159490
Isn't that Chara's normal hair color?

>>723159734
I've explained why it would make sense despite us doing actions previously that would align with their objectives. I've explained that we could go the weird/violent route too where even though we close off fountains we still do things Ralsei doesn't approve of, while there being no indication that the normal route is canon and his default opinion of us.
I've also explained why it would make sense of BOTH Ralsei looking shocked at Kris asking why AND the dialogue after with Ralsei not questioning Kris. And also mentioned that it would make more sense than Ralsei looking shocked at Kris asking why if it was the Knight doing the attack, and more sense than Ralsei simply just ignoring it while also calling Kris brave if it was Kris doing the attack.

Yet you're dismissing all that with basically a "NUH-UH it just don't make sense actually".
And the reason Ralsei would take it in stride as you say is because they already know they couldn't do anything about it if it was us. Not just because they're unable to but because we're needed to close fountains.

>>723144646
it would be funny if, during the segment where YOU rampage around hometown commanding noelle to snowgrave all the npcs, berdly comes back if you warmed him up only to get immediately snowgraved again

>>723160336
>Gamers don't die... we respawn!

Thoughts on Asriel knight? I think it's the only path forward at this point...

>>723160845
One guy did edit a Knight sound effect and it sounded suspiciously like his sound bleep.

>>723160845
Are there people that actually think this and just miss the whole point of the game being a PARALLEL to Undertale?
The whole point is that the characters aren't doing the same role, they have parallels doing it instead. Dess is the obvious parallel to Asriel's role in the story, and the Knight is clearly her parallel to his powered form.

Kris slashed my dog okay

>>723159423
ok jeez

>>723160845
I'm still hoping that Asriel doesn't have an important role in Deltarune, and neither would Sans or Papyrus. I'm sick of these faggots both in-game and with the fandom's obsession with them.

>>723161026
I would usually agree but the
>FIND HER
Is still very suspect. Why are we supposed to find her if she's already appeared before us? Most of Dess knight fits but this is the one aspect where it struggles.

>>723160330
I've already explained why it doesn't make sense, because after three chapters and a Knight fight with us going along with their plans, for us to suddenly flip out and attack Susie for no reason is so completely out of left field that Ralsei would be panicking, not sweeping it under the rug. I get you're a complete schizo so doing dumb stupid things out of left field for no reason, but Ralsei has no way of knowing that in universe so his assumption is that you're mentally stable and capable of thinking properly.

>>723161320
>I've already explained why it doesn't make sense, because after three chapters and a Knight fight with us going along with their plans, for us to suddenly flip out and attack Susie for no reason is so completely out of left field
I've already countered that argument, try reading the posts you're replying to next time. All of it, not just skimming them. And all you've said after my counter-argument is that
>bro it's just nonsensical
simply going back to your original argument without addressing mine.
Insulting me won't help you. In fact I see that as you not having an argument as you've failed to provide one. I accept your concession.

>>723161026
Asriel already being the main villain of Undertale is really the only point against the theory in my view.

>>723161202
I like that artist.

>>723161235
I see two options:
1. The "Find Her" is just the mentality that drove Kris to where they are now. Their whole personal drive was to find her and that echo remains visible to us while Kris has already "found" what remains of her and is now working with it to try and save her.
or
2. The Knight isn't "fully" Dess. The "Find Her" is about finding the missing part of Dess that's been lost to the Dark. All the stuff Kris is doing ultimately being something to reach her
Or, as a third option, the whole "Find Her" thing could be something more towards us, the player, not at all really diagetic to the game. I don't think that text is actually in the game directly, is it? It's more a theme with the answer being that the Knight is the her we're looking for

Guys the roaring knight just flew over my house

Will you pick Susie, Ralsei or Noelle route?

>>723161713
>2. The Knight isn't "fully" Dess. The "Find Her" is about finding the missing part of Dess that's been lost to the Dark. All the stuff Kris is doing ultimately being something to reach her
This is probably the more likely answer. The knight we see might be more a mimicry or a shambling puppet of Dess. Wouldn't that make Spamton even more foreshadowing? He's a puppet trying to become a real person. The conspiracy is trying to make Dess back to normal from whatever possession or fuckery she's suffering from. And once you cut the strings...

>>723160845
>Asriel's bat
Basically confirmed at this point

>>723130457
>Toby will rip off Persona 2 for this one
Yep. Kris and Susie are Tatsuya and Maya. The Clamgirl in UT even suggests their connection transcends universes, and implies that Suzy is why Frisk went to the underground in the first place.

There’s also cut text from Susie where she pleading for Kris to wake up, which would have been between the Gaster sequence at the start and Kris getting out of bed. Deltarune isn’t even the first timeline/universe where they met. It’s one of many do-overs.

>>723161893
I pick Susie and Noelle, and Ralsei can work the camera, and handle the refreshments and towels. You know he'd do it with a smile.

>>723161893
>He still thinks his choices matter.

>>723161713
>The Knight isn't "fully" Dess.

See >>723160956

More like the Knight isn't "always" Dess. How can you be so sure that it's the same person under the helmet every time?

>>723159053
different idea
>strong melee + magic attacks
>sometimes rude but close connection with kris despite sometimes hurting them
>monster

>mage with comparatively weaker melee and a healing spell
>ralsei could be hiding a fire attack from us like kris hiding x slash completely except on snowgrave spamton when things are very dire
>robes are very similar

>>723162027
>and implies that Suzy is why Frisk went to the underground in the first place.
Kris isn't Frisk tho, she's Chara

>>723160845
Sorry, goatchud. The Knight is Kris’s original soul keeping Dess’s body from disintegrating. It’s a human/monster fusion which is why it’s so big and has freakish strength even in the light world.

>>723161202
>>723161642
TUMMY

>>723162185
The Undertale kids are his heartless and nobody.

Why didn’t Kris just do this to protect Noelle from the thorn ring? Is he stupid?

>>723161137
I also like this artist. Shame he's gone.

>>723162185
please tell me theres more to this image

>Deltarune theories be like hurr durr spamton gaster pink yellow
>Not a single thing about the giant black man
What's his deal??

>>723162748
I don't like that artist as much.

>ELDER GOD TIER
Kris x Dess
Kris x Noelle (weird route)
(You) x Gaster (no homo)
>GOD TIER
Kris x Susie
Kris x Noelle (not weird route)
Asriel x Dess
>GOOD TIER
Ralsei x Susie
Kris x Carol
Kris x Berdly (no homo)
Kris x Queen
FRIEND x Noelle
>DON'T CARE
Everything else
>SHIT TIER
Suselle
I'm a shameless self-inserttard and will have a meltdown if there's painfully long scenes of Kris getting cucked in chapter 5. I will force Kris to date Berdly if it means that I can at least skip Robert's retarded yurifaggotry.

>>723162539
yes

>>723161893
Irrefutable prediction for the festival, just like you can't ride the ferris wheel in ch2 with Noelle, Susie will try to set-up a ride for Kris and Noelle so they can reconnect

>>723162756
The first thing I thought of when I reached that part of the game was La Luz Extinguido

>>723162756
Literally just gaster, the man behind the tree, the personification of darkness and obscurity

Pretty straightforward tbqh

>>723163059
>Toby reveals at the end of the game that the entire theme of Deltarune was how misegination ruins everything
>Disappears into the hills of Rural Japan never to be heard from again by Western society
How hard would you laugh?

pick one

>>723163020
>Gif
With Toby making Gerson a big reference to Tolkien and LotR, what if Susie or Kris really does just bite off her finger like Gollum at the end of the book?

>>723163270
I would hire private investigators so I could locate him and tell him "Based" in person

>>723163306
She will be blonde

>>723162439
Explain what that means.

>>723162976
fair

>>723163306
Dessire w/ Wisdom's tummy.

>>723163365
I like that artist but I have no art of her so you have this instead.

>>723163306
If she's anything but a brown tomboy I'm firebombing Toby's house

>>723163270
>Casually reveals monsters and human marriage
>Carol seems to have preference for humans
i think mixing is going to be a plot point lmao

>>723163270
id believe it
wasn't it the case he was considering making the fun gang humans in the light world before realizing that'd be a horrible idea

>>723163179
>Gaster is quite literally a mystery nigga

>troons making troon propaganda mock Christ
shocking and brave...

>>723157751
>If Kris did it, that means Kris is hiding some serious power
We already know they can FIGHT harder if they're motivated, they hit harder against Spamton NEO in the Weird Route and when fighting Tenna after playing the Sword game (where Tenna reveals Kris's deception to the player)
And don't forget that Betrayal Kills were a big thing in Undertale

What is Kristopher’s endgame?

>>723124215
...yet darker?

>>723163739
You will never go to heaven btw
Just like the local troon thinking he'll be a real woman someday

>>723163306
Goomy. She draws good for a FTM troon.

>>723162756
>>723163179
The fact it looks like a real ass human seems important. Especially given the other similarities it has to us as players.
>Highly likely that "The Angel" is referring to us, the player, the Titan is covered in angel wings and at first appears like a real human
>We seem to be the only ones that can see and interact with Save Points on an instinctual level, the Titan has what looks like a giant save point as a shield
>We exist from the highest level of reality, the ultimate Light, while the Titans are from the deepest level of fantasy, the ultimate Dark
There's some kind of connection there and it'll certainly be a big reveal later on.

>>723163608
They are both your angel and your debil

>>723163625
He had that idea before making Undertale. He changed it because of that game.

>>723162185
Source? Anon? Do you have the source? Can we get the source? Anon?

>>723162756
The Titan looks like The Angel
Which is to say, (You)

>>723164565
The Angel isn't the player btw.

>>723162185
https://files.catbox.moe/ceaoby.png

>>723164929
hnnnngggggg

>>723159107
What even caused most people to depict Chara as female. Is it really just the blush?

>>723165152
Her name?

>>723165152
Name, blush and it just fits better than the other option.

Any chance that all the female Chara art influenced Toby Fox to officially call her a "mommy" on stream?

>>723161893
Maintaining Karkat's agenda is top priority.

>>723163608
I hope she gets to see her hybrid grandchildren

Will there at least be one happy ending for someone in this story?

>>723165376
I wouldn't be surprised if Japanese art made him change from the humans being boys to girls, desu.

>>723165376
That didn't happen and nobody likes you.

>>723162023
I believe Toby had originally intended the Knight to be Asriel but opted to change it to Dess late into Chapter 1's development.
Dess seems to have come into existence sometime between Undertale's release and Deltarune, as evidenced by the initial 2017 release of the Alarm Clock dialogue only mentioning one child of Rudy's, which would've been Noelle.
I think Toby didn't want to both repeat the "Asriel is the disguised villain" from Undertale and the "THE KNIGHT IS THE PROTAGONIST'S BROTHER AND IT'S REALLY OBVIOUS" from Mother 3.
This is why Kris seems very close to Dess for him to be doing all this stuff for her, the relationship was originally envisioned for siblings and not between an older girl and a young boy.

>>723163608
>>723163270
>chara grew up in a black neighborhood and thats why she hates humanity

>>723165769
That's because everyone LOVES me.

>>723165376
Wasn’t Toby referring to HIMSELF as mommy?

>>723165584
This would be the closest to a fully straight ending deltarune could get and I will laugh my as off if it’s canon

>>723165971
>Spamton A.'s warning about the Worm from the String: "Are you a single mother? No? Well you will be soon!"
Toby succumbed to the worm.

>>723165971
NTA but that's probably true but isn't nearly as funny.

>>723149961
And the ones above are "normal"
Aah the humanity...

>>723165376
Probably, based retcon

>>723163912
Id rather know
Who was the devil that told the autiatic child that to use us was a good idea

Chara's fat fucking titties

>>723165584
Memes aside, every time I analyze the characters. How they're written and what direction would make the most sense for the plot to take them, I always end up at Karkat's diagram.

>>723125236
I wonder if Kris's human parents will ever be addressed in the narrative. Probably not.

>>723161235
because she's not "lost" in that sense
that's why "lost girl" is NEVER translated
this is actually the slam dunk for dess knight

>>723158376
Heard the same shit from the Kris knighters

>>723166795
More precisely, the endgame is Kris+doe and Susie+goat. Which doe and which goat depends on how happy is the actual ending.

>>723166796
Copyright wont allow it

>>723166464
After all these years, the coomers brainwashed Toby to accept PEAK.

>>723165971
Yes. Charafags are delusional, as is always the case.

>>723167286
It was a crushing victory

>>723166692
Calm down Toby

>>723161235
Why is Claus still missing if he's right there?

>>723164875
>An angel is watching us.
>* Let the Angel's power light your way.
>* Good day, Kris. May the Angel watch over you.
>Oh my god, so like, the Angel that's watching over all of us?
>* ... Kris, please, look to the Angel for guidance.
Yep, that sounds like Noelle to me

>>723158330
isn't it great?

>>723167454
So much so that we still got copers here. I always believed in the dog.

>deltarune thread
>half the images are Chara
oh but there's no spammer

>>723164929
kino

>>723166795
>kris and noelle have the whole “childhood friends separated through tragedy” thing going and kriselle happening in the normal route would make the weird route more tragic
>susie and ralsei set up a lot of each others most emotional scenes with Susie being shown to deeply care for darkners and Ralsei’s arc is learning to value himself despite being a darkner
Hmmm….

>>723167861
Artist are inspired
It will be some nice next years for art
Now if tobby pushes some effort for DR and there will be plenty of content to enjoy for the decade