Should Clair Obscure 2 be a sequel or a new story?

>>713185991 (OP)
I don't know, but if I see Lune, I post Lune.

>>713185991 (OP)
New story. Maybe similar themes, but don't bring the retarded Dessendres back. Even though I like Alicia. But IMO that's just the devs limiting themselves.

I hope they take the FF approach and have an entirely new story and setting each time all under the "Clair Obscur" umbrella.

A direct sequel would potentially be interesting though, and I'd like them to keep the battle/character progression systems more-or-less the same. Their biggest problem is the fact that any future game they release is going to be in Expedition 33's shadow, kind of like how Doom: Dark Ages would be much better regarded if 2016 and Eternal didn't exist.

Actually i think writers really phoned it in in the end. It was not Verso who was tired of painting, its devs who were tired of the world they made.

>>713186540
Pretty much, if they make sequel after sequel at some point normies will get overwhelmed

>>713186183
>Even though I like Alicia.
But she's the worst part of her family. Maybe Aline is worse but she's just like her.

>>713186594
Agreed. Instead of presenting both endings as equally viable, they just threw Maelle and the canvas under the bus and solved everything in favour of Verso, because the themes.
Devs - don't ask me my opinion, if you are going to declare it as wrong anyway.

>>713186880
They gave you the option, which you took fully knowing what it entailed.
>but I can bring everyone back to life and fix everything and not go insane and die!
Sure.

>>713186942
It's about as farfetched as "destroying this canvas will surely fix this family forever", even though it wasn't the canvas that was the problem.

>>713187251
>it wasn't the canvas that was the problem.
Yeah, it was verso's death and the canvas was an extremely easy way to simply avoid facing it.
Destroying it won't fix them, but it'll allow them to start grieving him properly.
Meanwhile chapter 3 is filled with redflags regarding Alicia, from the very beginning and they simply culminate in the ending.

>>713185991 (OP)
The objective of the game is that a family must face it's grief before they can move on.
If Verso ending is canon - new narrative
If Maelle ending is canon - the cycle continues, direct sequel

If they make it it should be about the war between the artist factions, and introduce the musicians and the sculptors

I see the game as too confined to be able to make a direct sequel or DLC. Much like Sekiro. Maybe they could make a new story, but nothing guarantees it will be good.
Time will tell.

>>713185991 (OP)
new story

>>713186089
Solid policy.

>>713185991 (OP)
New story, as all games with more than one ending should.

Is there any point in playing this if I got spoiled?

>>713189704
depends on the spoiler. There's like 3-4 twists.
If you know the ending of Act1, Act2, and Finale,
then best to wait a while

>>713187415
>it'll allow them to start grieving him properly
I don't really see how. Aline hates Alicia, Clea is obsessed with vengeance and wants to drag her father into it. Alicia is left mute and disfigured with all her friends having just been erased. What exactly is the path forward for her that isn't isolating herself?

>>713188295
There is one canon ending, it will be confirmed in the live action movie

>>713189854
I only know of a death

>>713189934
That's because you're young and haven't lived long enough to see real adversity and the healing process.

>>713190064
then yea, play it and stop browsing here until you finish.

>>713189934
>What exactly is the path forward for her that isn't isolating herself?
It'll be fine. Trust me bro. She can paint herself a new canvas, I dunno.

>>713190064
Dude, you don't know shit yet.

>>713190143
I've seen families falling apart because of lesser adversities. So far, the Dessendres haven't yet noticed that their daughter is a suicidally depressed cripple and needs their emotional support.
I hope they figure it out before Alicia jumps off the nearest bridge.

>>713186540
They can do both. Have their story be a completely disconnected thing... but the main character is still Alicia, although seemingly a different Alicia we had known in E33.
But I've been playing too much Alters lately, so alternate being mindfuckery is fresh on my mind.

>>713190558
She can make her own painting with simulacrums of the Lumierians and it will be fine

>>713185991 (OP)
it should be a Maelle (aged up) dating game

>>713185991 (OP)
I may have a suggestion.

>>713190064
literally just the fucking tutorial section

>>713185991 (OP)
I hope there is no sequel, it was a self contained story and all there was to do was done. If they make a direct sequel it probably won't be as good and will likely retroactively ruin E33. Instead they should make a new game but in the same genre and maybe drop a hint of lore or reference here and there to vaguely tie it to the first game as a wink wink to the fans.

>>713190946
The joke is that it doesn't solve the issue in the slightest, because she's still running away from the fact that the real life sucks. Which is something the game was criticizing at length.

>>713185991 (OP)
After seeing all the shit Dessendres were doing, namely being irredeemable shitty people who use their powers only to create suffering, the only acceptable sequel is a game like Hitman or Dishonored where you play as a Writer and physically prevent Painters for painting ever again.

Rather than make a second game, I'd like to see a DLC where Clea takes on the writers. Could have a similar clair/obscur theme but instead of grief, Clea's would be revenge/anger.

>>713191224
The Maelle ending is the best because it results in the most dead painters.

t. Writer

>>713190946
She'll be too busy guzzling morphine to not off herself from unending pain of burns for that.

>>713191275
Clea and that writers war probably is the dumbest plot in the game. Because how the fuck is that even supposed to work? She picks up a shotgun and shoots Jules Verne in the face? How is she intending to fight this fucking war anyway?

A direct sequel would be hot garbage.
We're already done with the Dessendre family. They've told their most emotional stories already.
There's nothing new or interesting they can bring to the table.

>>713191572
Considering that writers just attempted to set them ablaze, that's exactly how it will work. Except this bitch is going to job, because she's, well, just a bitch and not an omnipotent evil demiurge in real life.

Introduce the Musicians

It should be Expedition 17

>>713185991 (OP)
>POV: Lune sucks your eye out for her experiments.

>>713185991 (OP)
It could even be a prequel in terms of the first expedition. That would be dope too.

>>713185991 (OP)
Sequel or not, I have this gut feeling Sandfall's next project won't be as good and newsworthy. As good as E33 is, its success is definitely a fluke.

>>713185991 (OP)
slop 2

>>713192683
I don't think it's a fluke. The director had a strong vision from the start. They found the right people at the right time yes but the vision is what matters in the end.

>>713192781
>They found the right people at the right time yes but the vision is what matters in the end.
The vision doesn't matter without the right people. Without them you're just another "I'm an idea guy"
>hire an aspiring voice actress that turns out to be a great writer
>scout out a literal-fucking-who from soundcloud by sheer coincidence of such proportions it might as well be a divine intervention
>said literal who composer happens to co-live with a world-class singer
>send out dozens upon dozens of letters to numerous animators to no avail until some random Korean agrees to work for you and brings a bunch of his friends to boot
>etc
Take one of these out of the picture and it crumbles. Sandfall devs' individual skills aside, let's not pretend they didn't get extremely lucky in more ways than one.

Whether they'll be able to capture the same magic again and stay consistent remains to be seen.

>>713189934
Marrying me

Anthology type series. Technically not even in the same universe, but the next game is about the writers and it has painters in it too.

Or just straight up another IP rather than having Clair Obscur be a series. That's fine too. Perhaps these frenchies want to try out sci-fi or straight up fantasy or maybe even a historical game. Who knows? They deserve a shot, whatever it is they want to make.

a good game, firstly.

>>713191224
>>713191439
based

>>713193016
But now they have all the pieces in place, regardless if it was luck the first time.

>>713191572
>>713191969
Why do people assume the painters are completely powerless outside of the paintings? We clearly see them painting shit and turning canvas into magical portals. Nothing indicates to me they can't use chroma to do bullshit magical abilities outside of the paintings too. Just cause they aren't literal gods anymore doesn't mean they are completely powerless.

>>713192564
>Prequel
GAY

>>713186663
Is this an in-game model? One of the devs is definitely a foodfag

>>713185991 (OP)
How do you even make a new story
Either Verso destroy ed the world or its slowly dying thanks to Maelle

>>713191101
Another death

>>713193016
This might be shocking to you but a good director with a vision also has the capacity to recognize the right people and artists needed to contribute to their vision. The truth is a ton of good artists are out there, waiting to have a breakthrough moment. The dev team having extraordinary good taste in video games and knowing how to recognize good writing, music and visuals allowed them to capitalize on that.

The reason every AAA game sucks so much nowadays isn't because there is no good talent or the talent is impossibly difficult to find. It's because the industry is rotten to the core and suits with absolutely no artistic taste or vision leads to nepotism and diversity hires (which is ironic because the director of sandfall himself is a trustfund nepobaby himself, but still).

Theres a lot less luck involved in E33 than you might think, and a lot more freedom and good usage of resources led by people with taste who are more concerned by making a good game than appealing to the widest possible audience.

>>713185991 (OP)
Yes, make it a chronological sequel about another story, most obvious idea being making it about the writers. You can make Alicia appear at some point if you want to please the Versofags only to reveal in side content that the painting still exists to keep fuelling the debate between Versofags and Maellefags.

>>713195439
Or you can just play as Alicia's descendant so you are not perpetually stuck in early 20th century.
Which would imply she got laid at some point. Good for her I guess.

Filling Lune with whipped cream

>>713186089
Based

>>713185991 (OP)

I don't see how it can be a sequel unless:Maelle ending is canon and she goes crazy

>>713185991 (OP)
They should have modeled her after Emiru.

>>713185991 (OP)
New story

>>713193016

Why are you spamming this nonsense at all threads ubishill?

>>713197920
Fucking wild how yellow fever faggots will look at some 5/10 buck toothed asian like this and think it's the hottest thing they've ever seen.

should make a dlc with gustave but instead of a golden ending, it's an even more tragic 3rd ending
bonus points if pAlicia is there to suffer as well
but in all seriousness i'd imagine the easy fruit would be another game but from ther writers' perspective maybe set in a novel world or some dumb shit idk im still bitter about the twist about the canvas and how they didn't play it straight

>>713198916
very nice pubes and also canon

next game will be a dating sim where you play as real Verso in high school, i have an insider tip about this

>>713185991 (OP)
Same universe, obviously, but different characters. Malle/Clea should make a cameo at some point.

>>713201830
Can you date Clea?

>>713200886
Calm down 35 yo white woman

>>713198916
>>713201198
Looks too fuzzy and short to be Asian pubes. Asians have longer, stringy pubes.

>The sequel takes place shortly after the Maelle ending
>Gustave and the gang have formed a secret resistance against Alicia who they've all recognized is starting to lose it.

That flicker of light that appears next to verso's face before he starts playing piano is actually a secret message sent by the resistance members, communicating with him their plan to overthrow Alicia and use Gustave's technology to take over the canvas and perhaps even free themselves from the higher dimension of painters.

>Story is set in a book
>Dungeons are chapters
>bad guys are mirrors of E33 protags
>Written by the writers
>You equip footnotes instead of pictos
>You chain up skills and attacks to create special effects, like one create sentences with words
>You dont play as the individuals per se, but an in universe bodyless entity that orders the party around. A narrator. They obey you because its like obeying a squad leader.
>YOU talk to the characters and learn their stories.
The story is about Death of the Author and how we view the bad guy as bad because we take into perspective the author's biases as a Writer. We slowly learn that the antagonists are actually the heroes of the story and we are the villains trying to stop them.
Once this revelation comes the characters "break" from the narrator's control and now you (the player) control the characters directly and not via a narrator, who is actually tainted by the writer's bias.
Bonus points for Death of the Author being a Fremch essay written by Roland Barthes.

I dunno I'm spitballing here.

>>713198916
SNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIF

>>713202272

The last part is far fetched but Maelle losing it and turning everything into painted hell has potential to be kino.

>>713185991 (OP)
Mostly new story that ties in. Too easy to fuck it up if they continue where they left off, plus possibilities are endless. Renoir prequel, Alicia as an adult, something related to the fire and/or writers. Since people can be copied and preserved in paintings, that opens them up to time period crossovers too. Or just follow different characters entirely, but it should elaborate on the overarching story in some way

>>713202128
Lune is a hapa

>>713185991 (OP)
>>713186089
>>713186445
>>713186663
>>713203071
Imagine licking her feet as a joke

>>713203305
A joke?

>>713203505
Yeah wouldn't it be funny haha

New story, maybe a few loose references about the Dessendres and Verso's death at the most, but nothing to even hint at the ending or what happened. Just a grieving family who lost a son.

I'd say start outside in the real world before the MC enters the painting/book/music piece/whatever because the world being "fake" is going to be expected.

>>713203746
We don't joke about this anon, it's serious buisness.

>>713203881
I see it.

>>713185991 (OP)
why dem teeth so HUGE

>>713189934
but seriously, what was their problem

>>713203806
Something akin to The Longest Journey with the main character hopping around between the "real" and "fantasy" worlds back and forth would be fun. Then for the finale, fantasy world starts leaking into the real world, much to everyone's wtf.
And there have to be dragons.

>>713185991 (OP)
I doubt Verso can kill himself and the other painted people twice so it would necessarily have to be a new story set somewhere that isn't Doomiere.

>>713204547
Oh, that would be cool.

>>713203881
Imagine her face if I were to do it haha

>>713204251
DSL and DBT

>>713204421
just how many kids with fire abilities, burn scars and terrible parents are there

wmaf

>>713204251
so she can nimble on my white nuts

>>713204849
Is based
All white women have loose holes
All Asian females are tight... Until they give birth to a big white child

>>713192564
Getting attached to more characters that "should never have existed in the first place" yaaay.

>>713189934
You don't get it. She went to a pleasant funeral where happy music played and people smiled. It was clearly framed as being bittersweet, that means everyone is healing or something it's all so very lovely and life affirming

>>713204771
A lot

Metaphor sissies spamming the metacritic/opencritic getting btfo

>>713186445
gay

Maellefags would leave Omelas in the dungeon

>>713186089
I never noticed her tits bounce. Cute

>>713185991 (OP)
New story

Doesn't need a sequel. They should just make a new game. Clearly Sandfall is pretty good.

so alicia was horribly disfigured but didnt lose any hair? i call bullshit unless its a wig

>>713194406
>Clair Obscur be a series.
That's their best bet. And who knows. Maybe 10-15 years from now they're as legendary as Final Fantasy

>>713185991 (OP)
She is so otretty

>>713185991 (OP)
Man, I can't wait, actually. I hope the sequel comes out quickly and they completely shit the bed with it so I can watch retards like the shilljeets that infest this board backpedal so fast they create a black hole.

>>713209957
If the game is shit, I won't defend it. But seeing as though Sandfall is extremely passionate and talented, I really doubt that the game will be anything less than stellar.

>>713185991 (OP)
who is this?

>>713185991 (OP)

>>713185991 (OP)
New story. New universe.
I don't care about the writers and painters war

>>713210403
FOTM whore

>>713185991 (OP)
A spinoff that doesn't invalidate the endings of the original.
Maybe Clea vs. the writers

>>713211583
>Maybe Clea vs. the writers
With you playing as a shota writer hunted by Clea

Stupid Lune gooner-trooners.
Lune is the worst party member when it comes to story. I feel no connection to anything she does and she herself is the least interesting. I'd rather suffer with Slutciel if I had to.
>oh no I had strict asian parents
Yeah.. and? Is that it?
The only way to make her even worse would be to turn her black.

>>713185991 (OP)
new story

>>713186880
every time

>>713187251
>"destroying this canvas will surely fix this family forever"
No one promises that, but it does give them a chance.

>>713189934
It's never EVER ever EVER gonna get better, just let me plaaaaay!
I get wanting to protect Lumiere but people who agree with Alicia's actual motivation (let me stay here and pretend!) are such obvious teenagers.

>>713186880
Death of the artist.

>>713215684
This is one of the features that make the endings so multi-faceted. You can agree with Maelle's decision but not her motivation.

>>713203071
>>713203305
>>713203505
>>713203881

>>713215789
You can agree with her decision from her perspective. You can't agree with her decision from a reasonable perspective.

>>713209957
>>713210335
I won't be shocked at all if the second game is way worse and falls for the open world meme. Either ways, 1 was still great.

>>713185991 (OP)
i would like to see more of the painters vs the writers
maybe a game that lets you play from the writers perspectives during the war

>>713215789
Alicia's motivation is, objectively, delusional and selfish. But depending on how you interpret the details, there can still be a lot of positives, just like with Verso's where you don't know if the family is gonna be okay or not, but they have a chance now that they're back together and nobody's dying in the canvas.

>>713215920
I agree with her decision because I don't want to genocide the canvas. Her motivation with caring about Verso and wanting to live an escapist life is irrelevant to me.

>>713190846
This. Alicia must stay.

>>713214268

>>713185991 (OP)
E33's story is already great and, more importantly, finished. I hope they move on for the next game.

>>713215684
>It's never EVER ever EVER gonna get better, just let me plaaaaay!
Correct. She has these sort of injuries in 1905 France. Every moment of her chronic pain a reminder that she caused Verso's death.
Her future is ODing on Heroine and possibly having Aline throw her into an Asylum.

>>713215920
>You can't agree with her decision from a reasonable perspective
Yes you can. I don't want to erase and entire universe full of sentient beings.

>>713216276
headcanon

>>713185991 (OP)
I just want to find out a little more about the conflict between the Writers and the Painters.

>>713216319
Maelle reminds me of Homura.

>>713185991 (OP)
I don't want it to tell me the Verso ending is canon. But also I really want to know what the Hell is up with the Writers

>>713216319
My wife is so cute.

>>713216319
So you think Alicia's chronic burn pains will magically get better?
Alice already hates her and Aline is crazy from grief. We know this from painted Alicia's design. You think Aline won't hate her even more now that Alicia is directly responsible for throwing her out of the Canvas and destroying the Canvas means Alicia has killed Verso a second time.

Don't look at this through the lens of 21st century urban America. Alicia does not have a good life ahead of her.

>>713216425
She's the best written teenager in the history of video games.

I don't want a direct sequel. As much as I enjoyed the world, we don't need anymore Lumiere or the Dessewhatevers. Either give us an unrelated Painter family or a Writer.

>>713216528
I'm a Maelleending guy, but this isn't reality, it's French magic place.

Did Maelle get taller in act 3 or am I just imagining it

>>713216685
I could see the Dessendres still being relevant in some way, but yeah, I don't think there's enough left to Lumiere and the Gestrals to bring them back. Their story was told.

>>713216689
It's not that magical given the tech level, Lumiere citizens had higher tech than the real world and that's probably because they can fuck around with Chroma unlike in reality where it's restricted to their craft.
We know it's France because Alicia literally calls it France at the start of Act 3 when you try to leave the manor as Bacon Alicia and Verso's ending tells us its 1905.

>>713202373
Bro no one is gonna want to play another "it was all a dream" story.

>>713216276
>Every moment of her chronic pain a reminder that she caused Verso's death
>Proceeds to torture a replica of her brother in her ending

>>713216083
>I don't want to genocide the canvas
There's barely anything left to "genocide" by that point. Everyone she brought back, the emotions they feel, their thoughts, all a false illusion. An illusion in which Verso sees right through.

>>713216847
We don't know what exact level of technology people are at outside the canvas.

>>713216847
Last I checked, 1905 France didn't have Painters creating new worlds and a faction of presumably also magical Writers.

>>713216914
The replica is just a replica, who cares what happens to it, it doesn't have any of Verso's soul in it.
If you object to the above then you object to the Verso ending where he kills everything inside the Canvas, who cares what happens to this traitor who chronically lies to everyone and everything?

>>713216914
>Everyone she brought back, the emotions they feel, their thoughts, all a false illusion
Don't buy it. This is only one step removed from "These people aren't real". Sciel gets brought back and shares her grim abortion story with Verso, something that shows a perfect continuity between the Sciel we see in Act 1 and 2 vs the Sciel we see in Act 3. Furthermore, this Sciel is seen happily bantering with Pierre, her husband which Maelle never met.

>>713216958
We do actually because Lumiere is a literal copy of France generated by Aline's memories.

>>713216685
Too bad. You will play as Clea, and you will like it!

>>713203505
I really like this picture

>>713216528
>So you think Alicia's chronic burn pains will magically get better?
Nah it's likely she'll live with chronic pain, as lots of people do and have historically. That'll be pretty shitty.
>Alice already hates her
I assume you mean Aline already hate Alicia, but that's just headcanon.
>You think Aline won't hate her even more now that Alicia is directly responsible for throwing her out of the Canvas and destroying the Canvas
She doesn't seem particularly hateful about it once she's outside the canvas. Looks like processing her grief rather than delusionally larping that verso is still alive might be helping her.
>Alicia does not have a good life ahead of her
Maybe, maybe not. She's likely to be in pain, and is mute, and is not attractive. Conversely, she's rich and a literal wizard. She'll have both a lot of hardships and opportunities that others wouldn't. Why you people need to lazer in on every possible negative so hard is confusing.

>>713185991 (OP)
I want to play as a writer that rapes and murders Clea.

>>713217093
I would love playing as this giga stacy.

>>713186880
The entire game is flawed people doing flawed things for conceited reasons, it'd be offensive if there was a golden ending.
I suspect the natural consequence either way is Alicia not moving on and likely dying, and Aline still grieving while Clea and Renoir go after the writers.

>>713216728
most people notice but maelle got replaced with a different character, bigger maelle

>>713217021
>it doesn't have any of Verso's soul in it.
Nope, but the canvas does, and that soul would like to stop painting.

>>713217503
The soul itself tells you elsewhere on the map that it wants to continue painting and that it only started to dislike painting after the Fracture and Clea's Nevron's started eating the citizens + world.
The family stops fucking with the Canvas and the soul is content.

>>713217374
>but that's just headcanon.

>>713217646
>The soul itself tells you elsewhere on the map that it wants to continue painting
Where?
https://www.dawnborn.com/game-transcripts/clair-obscur-expedition-33-game-transcript-all-dialogues/all-spectres-encounters/

>>713217730
>aline, mad with grief, paints her daughter how she looks, but also with white hair
>this means that she forever hates her real daughter
ok

I want them to make a Universal Studios Kingdom Hearts game.

ITT: Eternally butthurt Maellefags.

>>713217093
I want Clea to hold me.

Anyone played this game in French (with English subs, I'm not a French speaker)? Would you recommend it vs the English version?

>>713217431
>bigger maelle
based. Also notice that for whatever reason, they use her smaller character model in the pause menu. but the taller one in game. might have just been and oversight

>>713218234
I'd do first playthrough in English. French is more direct on things I feel it shouldn't be direct on. Both languages are voiced well.

>unequip Stendhal
>unequip End Bringer
>5x HP
>Game is fun again

>>713185991 (OP)
My dream is it to become the French Final Fantasy with completely new worlds and stories for each game. That would allow them the most creativity

>>713217805
I guess the character design is spot on if an AI can analyze it that accurately

>>713217738
>>713217646
Anon?

>>713218234
I wanted to play it on French but unfortunately English is the original dub language. I must stick by my subs > dubs principles.

>>713217738
Not him, but this is a sick link. Thanks, anon.

>>713218887
It's great, here's the one for the rest:
https://www.dawnborn.com/game-transcripts/clair-obscur-expedition-33-game-transcript-all-dialogues/
Couldn't find anything with all the camp dialogs unfortunately.

how many years before we see a second game?

guys, I must have missed something but why does the paintress gommage everyone each year?
the closest explanation I've heard was from one of the fading men who said she wanted to save all of her creations or some shit like that but I don't get how gommaging them saves them

>>713185991 (OP)
>>713185991 (OP)
New story connected to the first one, hopefully showing how other art forms like writing and music can manifest magic like the painters could..who knows? Apparently Verso died on December 33th....this is obviously not the real world, Maybe the writers we heard about were the creators of the " real Paris" and the reality Alicia returns to is nothing but a book being writen in our world, making the entire first game extremely Ironic

>>713189704
The story is basically "it was all a dream", the story is in a canvas and none of the characters you like are real.

who are they gonna cast for the movie

>>713219582
The paintress isn't gommaging anyone. She's trying to keep a barrier that saves everyone but for arbitrary plot-related reasons, Renoir breaks through that barrier one year at a time and he can kill the older non-immortal creations first. He's only going after the Humans because those are Aline's creations. The fantasy guys are Verso's creation so he's not as worried about them yet.

Yes, it's very arbitrary.

>>713222354
interesting, I wouldn't be surprised if renoir did it that way by design, maelle said everything he does has to have layers of meaning and purpose in this cutscene

>>713185991 (OP)
Should be an eroge starring Clea

>>713222316
zendaya as maelle
tom holland as verso

>>713220850
nah, other people in a dream are just solipsistic emanations of the dreamer's mind. The lumierens, whether genuinely sentient or not, were not the same as dream entities. They learned and knew things independent of the painter. The canvas is more like some weird alternate reality that painters can project themselves into.

>>713225502
Yeah but what matters is what most people understood about the story, and if that's what they think then that's the writers fault. This is what most verso pickers (ppl who like the ending) think. They think value of life of ppl in Lumiere is same as npcs in a video game.

>>713224975
Jack Black Renoir, Will Smith Gustave

>>713225981
>the "it was a dream" poster is a false-flagging aliciafag
kek

>>713222316
>Reoir - Pedro Pascal
>Aline - Octavia Spencer
>Clea - Florence Pugh
>Verso - Michael B. Jordon
>Lune - Naomi Osaka's debut on the screen
>Sciel - Elizabeth Debicki
>Pierre - Kumail Nanjiani
>Maelle/Alicia - Hunter Schafer
>Monoco - Seth Rogen
>Gustave - James Marsden

>>713222316
Dave Bautista and the Rock as Esquie and Francois

>>713222316
Henry Cavill as Verso

>>713198916
HOLY SHIT

>>713225981
I'm a verso picker because verso's canvas caused too much suffering and it needed to go

Continuar a te amar
Continuar de pintar
Tender la mano y te implorar
¡Vuelve!

>>713222354
>>713223316
He is trying to collect or isolate chroma in order to control the painting. He does this by using Nevron and gommaging when possible.

>>713227363
dessendre's caused suffering, canvas is not the problem. Guns cause suffering, they should go.

>>713228782
no, this was clea's doing
the nevrons are also clea's creations

Who the fuck is Verso talking about here? What does he mean that Gustave isn't from there?

>>713228865
the continued existence of the canvas causes the suffering of babby verso's soul. it would like to stop painting.

>>713229187
Clea obviously. Gustave and the other people are foreign to this canvas because they are Aline's creations.

>>713229187
Legitimately the most confusing ghost dialog in the game. He says it to other party members as well, not just gustave. It sounds like he's talking about Aline but it's definitely Clea by the time he talks about the "creature of darkness."

>>713229260
>babby verso's sou

no such thing. Do you even hear what youre saying? You think canvas has a soul trapped in it? Are painters like voldemorts putting pieces of their souls in canvases and becoming soulless themselves? Sorry you got confused by terminology. I bet you complain about pronouns a lot.

>>713229438
he's right tho

>>713228949
I can fix her

>>713229342
>He says it to other party members as well, not just gustave
Damn, I thought that would be a hint to how Gustave survived the Dark Shores which was never explained.

>>713229438
>You think canvas has a soul trapped in it?
Yes, in the context of the game, at least some painters perform actual magic and pour part of their literal soul into the work. You should play the game before discussing it.

>>713229492
Its an answering machine, cortana. Its not a thing that is suffering or dreaming or doing anything a sentient being does. Writers are just hacks.

>>713185991 (OP)
It's a chinese astroturf. So like BG3, you will never hear from the team or the IP again

>>713229594
That's not how it works little bro. Its metaphorical. Artists say "they put their heart and soul into work/art" its not literal. If souls even exist then Verso's actual soul is already in afterlife, its not trapped in some painting. No the fragments are in fact just representations, manifestations, echo of emotions, feelings and thoughts that went into creating it (sometimes called "soul" by artists).

>>713229260
He's only "suffering" because of what his family did to his world. They are gone in the good ending.

>>713186880
My hot take is that the two endings likely came about as a compromise between the games director wanting a thematic sad ending FFX style, and the head writer that didn't want the four generations of worldbuilding to go to waste.

>>713223316
Consider that in Verso's ending, at his grave, only Verso's gommage has the white petals of Aline's chroma. Gustave Lune and Sciel are all red, suggesting they were Renoir's plants and that he was painting the expeditioners in Lumiere who were core to his goal.

>>713216914
>There's barely anything left to "genocide" by that point.
And whose fault is that? Renoir ans PVerso's. So by default they shouldn't get a happy ending and the ending where they suffer the consequences of their actions is the good one.

>>713185991 (OP)
Whatever White Elephant does. New story with some cross over.

>>713185991 (OP)
Lune if real!

>>713229710
>That's not how it works
It is in this game's setting.

>>713225981
>One hour Prologue with the people of Lumiere
>The Acts 1-2 with the Expedition, Painters, and comedy relief paintbrush people.
>Act Three with the Painters

I wonder what kind of tism-stagnated morality you need to care about a bunch of guys you talk to once at the start of the game in the first hour of a 40-70 hour game.
And no, audio logs that are some version of "oh no we stocked up on elemental attacks but this Nevron is immune to elements!!" do not count.
For fucks sake if you take the one where everyone died holding each other to build a bridge with their bodies as anything but a dark joke you need to get over yourself.

>>713229727
Well he can't because Clea outgrew him and will never have fun with him again. When asked if he wants to stop, he nods. Baby verso wants to stop painting. He NEVER wanted to paint anyways. He only enjoyed it because he spent time with Clea.

>>713229869
Both of the lead writers say the opposite, that they wanted the endings to be from two people who both want to do what's right and have different perspectives, and that they both wanted both endings to be very bittersweet. Clair obscur, even.

>>713229896
Renoir didn't paint any lumierens, only the axons and the nevrons in their areas (and in the drafts). She saw the lumierens gommaging red because that's how they always gommaged, including the time she saw those specific lumierens gommage at the end of act 2. She also saw verso start to fade, white. It's the same reason Esquie and Monoco don't gommage, but just fade away. Those are memories she's seeing disappearing, not her actual friends.

>>713230974
I'm a Maelle ending guy but please stop doing this shit. Death of the Author, bitch.

>>713229710
the fading boy at the end is literally real verso's soul trapped painting forever.

>>713231480
That makes no sense whatsoever. That "soul" has existed for as long as the canvas has existed. Did Verso have split souls for most of his life? He didn't seem too bothered by it.

>>713229896
Every gommage in Lumiere also resulted to red petals, but we know Aline created most if not all of them.

>>713225502
rather than alternate reality, it's a subordinate one imo because the painters have ultimate control on the denizen's existence. Painters are more akin to Gods, and their decision to project inside is alike a god visiting his creation.

>>713185991 (OP)
This. >>713218701

>>713231618
Have you never read a fantasy series where someone splits up pieces of their soul through magic?

>>713185991 (OP)
Havent played this game but can we just have a standalone story nowadays? Does everything have to be a multimedia franchise???

>>713231661
They're red because Renoir is claiming the chroma, coloring it red. This is also true in the part of Verso's ending that happens in the canvas with Verso, Monoco, and Esquie also gommaging into red, but in general the game isn't shy about indicating that red = Renoir.

>>713225981
>Yeah but what matters is what most people understood about the story, and if that's what they think then that's the writers fault
No it's not. Nor can you be sure that is how the majority of people interpreted the story.
Also, most people tend to consoom more and reflect less. Or play a game while engaging with their phone, never truly immersed. It is not the developers fault if a player does not think enough about the experience and come out with a different conclusion.

>>713231838
It makes much more sense that they aren't using the world soul literally and it's just meant as a word that explains that the painting has the representation of its creator inside, similar to how every work of art has a representation of its author in it in one way or another. Like how you can read into J.R.R. Tolkien's personal views on religion, war and brotherhood, for example.

>>713185991 (OP)
Every single time I see this woman she's covered in shit. Do they not have showers in the game or something?

>>713231618
You gotta read between the lines a little because they don't spoonfeed you like modern slop, but it's not that complicated. The biggest hint is the only people you see with the busted face are real Renoir, real Aline, and babby verso at the end.

>>713231618
It's both metaphorical and literal. It's a splinter, so yes kind of like Voldemort.

>>713185991 (OP)
Didn't they leave a plot hook with something about the writers or whoever attacked the family? Seems like something there that wouldn't even have to be connected to the family.

>>713232134
Don't mind him, Aliciafags will never stop seething at this game's writers for not making her ending happy happy sunshine

>>713232375
>real Aline
the fading woman is clea.

>>713232501
i know, i was talking about Aline

>>713232043
Yes red=Renoir. But your initial post implied some of the playable characters were Renoir plants, due to evidence that "they are gommaging through red petals". However red petals in death merely indicate who is doing the gommaging, and doesn't say anything about the creator.

When Maelle repainted Sciel and Lune, the chroma was gold iirc.

>>713232375
And Clea. Forgot that, sweetiecheeks. And here you were trying to educate me.

>>713232380
No, it's just metaphorical. You guys are taking the "soul" thing literally. It's a poetic word for "This is the last piece of Verso's identity that is imbued in this canvas". It's not literally a soul splinter or whatever. Renoir painted hundreds of canvas, he does not have hundreds of souls hidden in other places.

Think of it like a walking audio log. It's no more Verso's soul than Painted Verso is.

>>713191979
>Next game is time jump
>Gooners and gameplay whores get introduced.

>>713232640
>Renoir painted hundreds of canvas, he does not have hundreds of souls hidden in other places.
their souls leave their bodies to go into the paintings, you see Aline and Renoir as lifeless husks in the fake epilogue. Verso's soul doesn't have a body to go back to because he's dead. keeping the canvas going is preventing him from moving on

>>713232640
it's both anon. a word being both literal and metaphorical is not a new thing, it is a common device in literary arts. if you choose to make it purely metaphorical in your head canon, sure - enjoy :)
even the writers confirmed it has a literal application in one of the interviews but I can't be arsed to find it.

>Renoir painted hundreds of canvas, he does not have hundreds of souls hidden in other places.
how do you know he doesn't? we don't know the effect of splintering a soul. can it be reclaimed? so many unknowns to speak definitively. the imbuing of a soul is

>Verso not being bothered
how do you know? Verso is dead. The playable one is a painted version by Aline.

Don't need a sequel, just a Clea DLC

>>713232634
Right, Maelle's chroma color is gold, so when she saves Verso from being gommaged his chroma turns from red to gold, when she repaints Lune and Sciel they're gold, and whenever she uses the Gommage Gradient Skill that is also gold. Verso's chroma color has been all three of the painters at various points in the game, with act 3 having him saved by Alicia's gold, letting off Aline's white near soul Verso, and fading into Renoir's red afterward in his ending. But at the grave it's still Aline's white. Gustave, Lune, and Sciel are the outliers with red when you'd expect them to also be white if Aline truly created all life in Lumiere.

>>713232592
I think you made a mistake actually, since we are explicitly told the curator and paintress are renoir and aline, whereas the fading woman and fading man that appear in multiple places like the fading boy you also mentioned are clea and renoir.

>>713232813
God, this is such a stupid interpretation.
When Aline and Renoir have their actual souls in the painting, they are lifeless husks, just like you said. Maelle is also like this for sure during the events of the game.
Verso was living his normal life doing his shit and then he died in a fire. Maelle or Aline did not quickly grab his chroma from the fire and transpose it onto the canvas. That fading boy was always there. He was there while Verso was burning. Because he's a representation of the painter's intent when he's painting the canvas.

Similarly, we see Clea's fading girl equivalent in the tower, even while Clea is busy with her war. She's not a lifeless husk but you still talk to the fading woman.

>>713232924
It's your headcanon against mine. You're simply taking the word "soul" literally. There's nothing in the dialogue that tries to give what you're saying any actual mechanical validity.

The only reason why you can't say that Painted Verso has Verso's soul in him is because Painted Verso only started existing after Verso had already died. For other purposes, the arguments are the exact same.

>>713190064
>>713195307
Just play it. I thought I couldn't be spoiled more after a month of 20 E33 threads up on the catalog all at once but there were still several twists I wasn't expecting or had expected to go differently.

>>713232640
>No, it's just metaphorical.
Nope, it's his actual soul. You talk to it and when it stops maintaining the canvas the painted world goes away.

>>713233182
I'm not talking about the fading boy I'm talking about the boy in the ending.

>>713233386
That is the same fading boy you encounter throughout the game.

>>713233254
Verso had to leave a piece of his soul in the painting so it would retain it's magic without him having to stay there permanently. It's not headcanon, it's what the character in game and the writers outside of the game both say. You're just wrong, tragically.

>>713185991 (OP)
i think without diminishing the first game, it should be a new story. make it from the writers perspective, maybe. or just the conflict between writers and painters without involving maelle at all. clea could still be involved without revealing a "true" ending to the first game

>>713233180
so you're saying that in the grave scene the characters aren't being gommaged, but instead their "source chroma" is being shown? it's plausible i guess but idk why that would only happen in the ending when it looks exactly like a gommage death.

An interpretation I like better is that Aline, as a representation of her finally letting go, gommaged Verso personally, while Renoir did the rest.

>>713233364
>You talk to it
You talk to Painted Verso too

>and when it stops maintaining the canvas the painted world goes away
So? I understand that this is the "world" speaking to you. A representation of the author's intent. My point of contention is that this is a splinter of Verso's soul.

>>713233540
>Verso had to leave a piece of his soul in the painting so it would retain it's magic without him having to stay there permanently
Go ahead and show me one single instance of text or dialogue from the game that says this. I am happy to concede if that is stated anywhere in the game. I'm pretty sure it isn't and you're making shit up, though. Note how you made a very specific claim of how the mechanics work which you will not be able to back up.

>>713233637
The world ceases when the soul piece stops maintaining it. You're just wrong.

>>713233475
Yes but the person I was replying to was implying that it wasn't Verso.

>>713233694
Waiting for your source here, big boy. >>713233689

>Verso had to leave a piece of his soul in the painting so it would retain it's magic without him having to stay there permanently
Again, a very direct, very specific claim. I'm sure the game has a line in it that says this at all. Surely.

>>713233254
Mine is canon, the writers confirmed this. Other anons said the same but you love your interpretation, so sure okay.
The dialogue is there, you just have to take it literally (though it also works metaphorically).

>The only reason why you can't say that Painted Verso has Verso's soul in him is because Painted Verso only started existing after Verso had already died
there is no textual evidence, why would I argue a pointless exercise?

>>713233621
At the grave, yes. The grave isn't in the canvas, so that's not a real gommage, simply characters disappearing into petals for artistic purposes. If it were going by Alicia's perspective, Lune and Sciel would be in her repainted gold. If it were by canvas gommage perspective, everyone would be red, but Monoco and Esquie are black (Verso's color?) while Maelle is gold (Alicia) and Verso is white (Aline). Source color makes the most sense to me.

>>713233835
Do you also think that Verso had to leave a piece of his soul in the painting so it would retain its magic without him having to stay there permanently? Would be very happy if you could provide a source in the game that says this as well. Show me the textual evidence.

>>713185991 (OP)
If they make a sequel with the writers or whoever else it shouldn't be called Clair Obscur. Chiaroscuro is apparently sometimes used in singing and writing but when I hear the term I can't think of anything but visual mediums. Also I can only take hearing
>Clair Obscur
>Clair Obscuuuur
in so many tracks.

>>713231838
Renoir after the final battle says he and Aline have created and visited literal hundreds of Canvas worlds and they're perfectly healthy.

>>713233254
>Maelle or Aline did not quickly grab his chroma from the fire and transpose it onto the canvas
Aline probably did trap his soul in the canvas. They constantly talk about how she made painted Verso special, and he's able to exist in the weird room at the end that Maelle says he shouldn't be able to.

>>713233906
not sure about staying permanently, but in order to create a Canvas, you need to imbue a splinter of your soul, which will continually paint. Here is one after Act 2, I hope you can understand what this implies.

Letting Maelle take over is just continuing the family tradition of pissing all over Verso's grave, she should fuck off and get her own

>>713234282
That's just the immortality she granted the fake family. Painted Renoir and Painted Alicia would be able to go there too.

>>713234430
Then why would Maelle say "you shouldn't be able to exist here"

>>713234494
Verso says that's the gift that he was given by the paintress. I thought that was something that she gave him at the end of the Paintress boss fight?

>>713185991 (OP)
Just imagine giving Lune foot rubs and then sniffing them while licking and sucking on her toes all night

>>713234494
Because normally he wouldn't and its only thanks to the immortality that he's still in one piece, he started to gommage when he entered the place just like Sciel and Lune, the difference being he's immortal and his body pulled itself back together.

The problem here is that the Painted Family's immortality is poorly explained, we have no context or explanation implied or otherwise in how it works. All we know is that Painters can bypass it.

>>713205750
Why not just enjoy both games? Both are fun and great JRPGs

>>713234494
I still don't understand the room.
Why was Verso able to go inside it from the "Window" that Renoir created?
Why do painted creations die inside it?
What is it's nature?

>>713234348
Fair enough, that does align pretty well with the boy painting. It's foreshadowing right there and fits well. Fair play.

But how am I supposed to see these slivers of souls philosophically and mechanically? When Verso painted the painting as a boy, he started feeling a part of him always being inside the painting even while he was away? What does it mean for a potential afterlife? There's only 99% of Verso in heaven?

I guess what I'm trying to say here is: How exactly would you differentiate a supposed piece of Verso's soul and just a snapshot of him when he was painting the canvas?

If Verso's snapshot is meant to be a literal piece of Verso's soul, why would Aline feel the need to paint a new Verso?

Why did they keep a canvas that Verso made as a kid for years on end while he was an adult if it supposedly had a piece of his soul in it? Just how damaging or important can a soul truly be if they care that little for it? But this par for the course with Dessandre ethical quandaries.

I have no choice but to take it as a metaphorical and not literal.

This "soul" is a snapshot, an echo. In a way, just like Painted Verso. The real Verso is dead. Fully. The soul thing is part of the griefing cope.

>>713234642
I have a mighty need...

>>713234791
Presumably its the core of the painting given verso's soul piece is there with a Canvas. All we have is speculation really.
Mine is that the chroma is too dense for regular painted creatures to survive, like a human trying to exist at the bottom of the ocean.

>>713234660
I thought it was something different from the immortality since Maelle sounded surprised, but I guess it could have been one of those "remind the audience" things
>>713234791
My impression was it's some kind of "airlock" between the canvas world and real world

>>713233728
Alicia: If we bring Maman out of the Canvas, she’ll try to return. We must hide the Canvas…
Clea: Well-reasoned. And such a… clever hiding spot you’ve chosen. She’ll still find it, but… I’m impressed. This only truly ends if you destroy the Canvas. And that means stopping the final sliver of Verso’s soul from painting. See, that wasn’t so hard. Wait- that’s Aline’s chroma. Stay calm, don’t let it take control of you. Calm, Alicia, or it’ll paint over you- What an auspicious start. Well. You’re about to be reborn in this world as one of Aline’s creations. Have fun. At least this will keep you out of trouble until I get back.
This only truly ends if you destroy the Canvas. And that means stopping the final sliver of Verso’s soul from painting.
This only truly ends if you destroy the Canvas. And that means stopping the final sliver of Verso’s soul from painting.
This only truly ends if you destroy the Canvas. And that means stopping the final sliver of Verso’s soul from painting.
This only truly ends if you destroy the Canvas. And that means stopping the final sliver of Verso’s soul from painting.
>replying to yourself multiple times just to get this fucked

>>713235171
This "soul" is a snapshot, an echo. In a way, just like Painted Verso. The real Verso is dead. Fully. The soul thing is part of the griefing cope.

>>713216914
Shut up and play the piano, fag

>>713234872
the presence of a piece of verso's soul existing in the canvas gives verisimilitude to Aline (and Alicia's) delusions that Verso is still alive. Their entire reason for wanting to squat there is to avoid dealing with the fact that he's dead.
>>713235206
>give a statement from the game!
>*gets one*
>so?
faggot. bye.

>>713185991 (OP)
I want them to be different, like FF games but with shared themes and names. Gestrals can always come back was wacky creatures, mimes can come back, etc. Maybe this time we can get a game about Writers so we can know what the fuck is up with that supposed "war" between paint niggas and book niggas.

>>713185991 (OP)
New story would be neat, but I need to see the other writer ('s team) works first. There's always a chance this success is also a result of luck. A sequel, or spinoff or prequel or whatever would be better for them to build rep.

That and they also owe the players the plot about The Writers and what is really up with Clea.

>>713235270
>delusions that Verso is still alive
According to you, he is. Since a part of his soul is there, whatever the fuck that means.

Seems like these Painters can just be immortal after all and they found a cheat code. Burned me to death? Too bad, I have a bunch of paintings, my soul is in all of those.

>>713194857
We're all foodfags deep within.

>>713235346
I get that you're trolling but for anyone else curious about how the canvas works - it's maintained by a literal piece of the painter's soul. That soul does not grow or age and is clearly not experiencing a life in the way that a whole human does. The piece of verso that's still in the canvas is barely there, it can't really hold a conversation, it seems trapped in moments relevant to the words it does try to speak, and it's no coincidence that it's named "fading" boy. If there were any way to bring a painter back with this piece of soul Aline would've done so.

It would be cool if they have new stories each time but the names of the core party members is the same even if they look completely different and are voiced by others and such because then there can be theories about how we might be playing story written by Alicia (she was more of a writer than a painter). Something like that would be kinda neat to change up the story from time to time rather than it being fully standalone like FF games.

Daily reminder there's no silver lining to Malle's ending, and they couldn't have done a better job spelling that out for you.

>>713235506
These posts always feel like bitter aliciafags falseflagging. The writers have stated several times they don't feel either ending is meant to be a good or bad one and even as someone who prefers verso's ending, I can see how a different interpretation of a number of details in Alicia's could be positive.

>>713202373
That's 75% MGS2.

>>713235502
I'm being sarcastic but I'm not trolling.
>That soul does not grow or age and is clearly not experiencing a life in the way that a whole human does.
Neither does a vegetable human. But that's still a human being that still has neurological impulses and potentially even sensorial experiences. Is that how I should be reading this? This game can be seen as a metaphor for Aline not wanting to pull the plug while her husband wants to pull the plug?

Because the way I'd prefer to read it which I think is more consistent with the themes of the game would be that Aline is looking at the equivalent of a photo book that she has become obsessed over, and Renoir wants her to move on.

>>713235502
>That soul does not grow or age and is clearly not experiencing a life in the way that a whole human does
You know who is, though? The people inside the canvas. Maelle ending vindicated.

>>713235706
Vegetable humans age and die, so again, you're wrong.
>>713235832
>You know who is, though? The people inside the canvas
Correct, which is why it's a tragedy that they're almost entirely all dead by the time we get to choose an ending. My interpretation of the details presented to me causes me to feel like Alicia can't (or won't) actually bring back people, and so I prefer Verso's ending. You may feel differently.

>>713235706
>>Because the way I'd prefer to read it which I think is more consistent with the themes of the game would be that Aline is looking at the equivalent of a photo book that she has become obsessed over, and Renoir wants her to move on.
Yeah but even in this interpretation I think the soul stuff is a representation of how wallowing in grief like this doesn't honor the dead, it's doing them a disservice.

>>713235941
I was obviously referring to "not experiencing a life in the way that a whole human does"
You didn't get a gotcha on me, anon. You can't seriously think I think vegetables are immortal.
>>713235983
I don't disagree. I'm just arguing that having it literally be a part of Verso's soul and not be a metaphor flies in the face of the idea that it's a game about a grieving woman deluding herself.... Because there actually is the soul of the man who supposedly died there. It's not just an artsy way of saying that his thoughts and his intent is there. A literal piece of his soul is there. She's not deluding herself in any way.

>>713236105
>having it literally be a part of Verso's soul and not be a metaphor flies in the face of the idea that it's a game about a grieving woman deluding hers
not any more than having a magical painted VR world in the first place
>She's not deluding herself in any way.
She's torturing what's left of her son to preserve a selfish vision of what she wanted him to be.

It should be not a JRPG

>>713236260
>She's torturing what's left of her son to preserve a selfish vision of what she wanted him to be.
Feels like this would have come up in Renoir's dialogue at some point. Similarly to how he'd surely mention at some point that the people inside the painting aren't real if that's what he actually thought.

>>713217738
I don't think that link has the line before you fight the 33rd battle in Endless Tower but otherwise solid compilation.

>>713236583
I wrote that line down because I thought it'd be easily missable and it confused me.

>Well done. Maybe you are changing.
>Let's see how do against a proper drawing.
>You should recognize them.
>From my past experiments.
>Let's see how far you've come.

It seems to imply that Clea painted Renoir and Aline's forms they take in the canvas.

At the end of act one when painted Alicia shows up Renoir asks "you would use her?" and Verso replies "I don't make the rules between you two" I don't really understand the dynamics here. How does her being there stop him from fighting and what did he mean by the rules between them?

>>713236706
Well to be fair it's just a fancier 'letsss get rready to rrumbbblee' although 'from my past experiments' can intrepeted multiple ways.

love me some ada and lune

>>713236793
I have yet to replay - maybe Renoir is actually referring to Maelle?

>>713236793
>You would use her
Basically asking Verso would he use Maelle('s connection to Gustave) for his plan. Remember, Verso let Gustave die so Maelle is distraught and rage enough to kill the Paintress which she did.
>Rules between them
That Renoir will content enough with the painted persons as his family. Rule here is Renoir accepting immortality to be together with his family.

>>713237051
Feels like a stretch

My sister decided to text me out of nowhere and ask me if I've played this game
Her boyfriend was and she's obsessed now and has pestered me to play it
I'm just waiting for a sale

>>713237237
Maelle's makes sense. The "rules between them" less so.

>>713236105
I actually think you're too much of a pseud to be trolling.
>I was obviously referring to "not experiencing a life in the way that a whole human does"
Alright, that's incredibly dumb. I laid out several characteristics and you matched one with something else to somehow imply they're the same?
>Humans aren't cucumbers, cucumbers have different dna from humans
>Oh yeah? Whales have different dna from humans. Am I supposed to be seeing this as cucumbers and whales being the same thing?
Retard.
>She's not deluding herself in any way.
She's deluding herself into feeling like she still lives in a whole family that hasn't experienced Verso's death, because his soul piece gives Painted Verso sufficient verisimilitude to be dangerous.

>>713236409
>Feels like this would have come up in Renoir's dialogue at some point.
His parents probably didn't know he wasn't that into painting. None of the Dessendre's are really thinking about what Verso would want.
>Similarly to how he'd surely mention at some point that the people inside the painting aren't real if that's what he actually thought.
I don't think it would change his motivations either way

>>713237319
>>713237237
I don't think 'rule' here is exactly a rule rule, but choice. Choice that Renoir and to some extent pAlicia abide to, which is to continue living as a family. Renoir's also hoping that pVerso will follow suit (to 'follow the rule', to live with them as family) but pVerso was made too perfect, too close to the real Verso that he chose not to.

>>713237624
Still a stretch
Reads like changed plot point

>>713237706
You're reading too far into it.
>White-haired man: You would use her?
>Stranger: She chose to come. I didn’t make the rules between you two.
pRenoir is accusing pVerso of telling Alicia what to do, because that is how he thinks Alicia should be handled. Verso responds that he doesn't tell her what to do, only pRenoir does. "Rules" is a common way of referring to restrictions or instructions put on children by parents.

>>713237947
how would Verso use pAlicia in this context?

>>713238406
pRenoir cares deeply for pAlicia and probably wouldn't want to fight with his family in front of her.

>>713238536
Ok, now that's the mother of all stretches there.

Just finished watching this game.
What's the time flow difference between the canvas and the outside world?

>>713238608
What are you looking for, exactly? Someone with a passable understanding of family dynamics would understand what they're saying to each other.

>>713190972
Why aged up... ??

>>713238675
No one knows, but it's only logical to assume that there is a significant flow difference going on.

>>713238675
One of the head writer confirmed that they have a ratio but aren't revealing it, so we'll never know exactly. Aline was in the canvas for an unknown amount of time but we know Lumiere goes back generations (unless Aline painted their history into their memories) and then Renoir went in and 67 more years passed. In that time outside the canvas, Alicia's wounds turned to scars and the house looks alright but the burned down portion is still walled off. So it seems like weeks at least, months at most outside the canvas. The head writer for the lumiere stuff says she wrote a lineage for Gustave going back 4 generations, so for all we know Lumiere had existed for at least 4 lifetimes before Renoir came in, so it could've been hundreds of years in there.

>>713237947
Doesn't "her" refer to "Maelle (rAlicia)"?
So "she" - actually also refers to Maelle (rAlicia).
Alicia chose to go inside the canvas ("chose to come"). Renoir likely restricted rAlicia from doing anything related to the Canvas, but she broke that "rule ("rules between you").
Verso is talking to pRenoir, but is actually referring to the interactions and rules between rAlicia and rRenoir in the real world.

Idk this is purely hypothesizing.

>>713238828
>One of the head writer confirmed
This is so fucking gay without fail
People who engage with fiction like this are all brainlets

>>713238862
That's what I thought too. It's a bit confusing to purposefully be a misdirection, but Verso is cheekily referring to "between you two" as actually between real Renoir and real Alicia.

>>713238891
>This is so fucking gay without fail
Why? Only a brainlet wouldn't have noticed that time worked differently in the two places, and the writer saying "we made a ratio for our own use but it's not important for your interpretation of the story" doesn't effect anything.
>>713238862
>Doesn't "her" refer to "Maelle (rAlicia)"?
No, it refers to pAlicia, who is pointed at moments before the dialog in question is spoken.

>>713230974
>Both of the lead writers say the opposite
>>713232924
>even the writers confirmed it has a literal application in one of the interviews
>>713233835
>the writers confirmed this
>>713235573
>The writers have stated several times they don't feel
>>713238828
>One of the head writer confirmed that
I hope to god all of these are only (You) and there aren't multiple brainlets like you. Cease this faggotry this instant.

>>713206617
schlomosexual

>>713239097
anon everyone's free to interpret the details as they please, but when it comes to disagreements, we can refer to what the authors have said about their work. I'm sorry if anything they said de-confirms anything you felt.

>>713218701
Agree. This game is what Final Fantasy 15/16 should have been. Actual good games, not some over bloated shitty action rpgs.

>>713238828
Human body can only last for so long without water and food, if we're to assume Aline didn't leave the VR chat for bathroom breaks. But then again, it's magic, so anything is possible, I guess. I just understand it couldn't have been TOO long, because supposedly there's a rival magician clan/guild out to kill them.

>>713239036
it's cheap misdirection

>>713239097
how so? the hypotheses was made way before the devs confirmed it. It's not like people read about the "confirmation" and just parroted it as fact. The confirmation is just additional evidence in support of self made hypotheses.
stop being a faggot

>>713239238
>but when it comes to disagreements, we can refer to what the authors have said about their work
You can, if you're a brainlet. You can also drool and forget to breathe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author

should be a documentary where the devs kill themselves one by one for astroturfing their mediocre game everywhere

>>713239356
>it's cheap misdirection
What? There's nothing unclear about the scene. I struggle to see what you had difficulty understanding.
>>713239391
What's your point? No disagreement about fiction can be resolved?

>>713239460
>No disagreement about fiction can be resolved?
Not with "muh word of god", no. Your arguments should stand on their own based entirely on what is in the text. Anything the author says outside the work is utterly irrelevant.

maelle ending is better because Gustave is based and Verso is gay
end of fuckin story

>>713239505
You're free to make your own interpretations, but when someone asks "what did x mean," the word of the author is going to have more value than "as a consumer of the media my interpretation was this." No interpretation besides your own need mean more to (You) than your own, but that doesn't mean that every interpretation by every consumer is equally valid.

Further, you don't even seem to know what "death of the author" is. You invoke it like it's some kind of law. It's just a literary criticism that has itself been challenged by similar criticisms. It's one guy's idea on the validity of personal interpretations, not case law in a court.

Faggot.

>>713239391
death of the author doesn't mean you just completely disregard authorial intent completely since as a player you are engaging in a world made by the author. It means you can have completely different interpretations or endings from what the author intended.

For example I found a few allusions to Christianity in the game - but I confirmed with the devs that those are unintended from their narrative - and that's fine because I still think it's nifty and I don't need their approval. Great art is both Window and Mirror, anon :)

>>713239460
oh I don't misunderstand it. I dislike how you interpreted it but it does have good evidence behind it since Renoir did point to pAlicia.

Just that, if I interpreted that to mere cheap misdirection (there is a small cut after he points to pAlicia and says "she is"), and changing the next meaning of You would use "her" to "rAlicia/Maelle" instead, I like how clean the messaging is. oh well

>>713239653
>but when someone asks "what did x mean," the word of the author is going to have more value than "as a consumer of the media my interpretation was this."
It's not, though. If the author sufficiently communicated whatever it is he wanted to communicate, then you should be able to simply go look at the text, grab it and explain it to other people and see the validity of your (and the author's) interpretation. Instead you go "THE AUTHOR SAYS THAT HE MEANT IT THIS WAY". It's absolutely worthless. You're not engaging with the text, you're engaging with a manual telling you what the text was aiming for. This isn't even taking into account that authors don't necessarily land what they are aiming for. Authors, can in fact, completely shoot themselves in the foot and say the opposite of what they mean to say, at least according to other people's interpretations. Obviously, this is subjective.
>but that doesn't mean that every interpretation by every consumer is equally valid.
It also doesn't mean that the author's interpretation is the most valid of all, which is what you seem to be missing. Any work of fiction is a two way street. Authors aren't gods. The reader contextualizes everything that is written. There is a sort of co-authorship happening here. Which is why your absolutely boring practice of just trying to be absolutist by grabbing the word of god is faggot behavior you should cease.

Continuing

>>713190064
You should not be in these threads until you've met Clea, at least.

>>713239647
Speaking of gay - why are none of the Dessendre children married yet? Alicia I understand, she's a teenager. But Verso and Clea? Verso is 26, Clea is 30. Move out of your parents basement, you fucking freeloaders.
And people keep saying this family isn't pathological.

>>713239653
>>713240236
Continued

>You invoke it like it's some kind of law. It's just a literary criticism that has itself been challenged by similar criticisms
It's technically literary criticism in that it's criticizing critique literature, I suppose, you're not wrong about that. Either ways, Death of the Author as a theory is completely correct. Roland Barthes is correct in his assessment.

You gave the game away when you implied that you're resolving disagreements about fiction. You're not resolving anything. You're pretending there is more validity to what you're saying because the author said the same thing. Alternatively, (and this is a much worse alternative, so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is not what you're doing) you're looking up what the author said so that you can understand the text, because you are incapable of having any interpretations of your own.

>>713240135
I didn't interpret it, that moment is pretty low on room for interpretation. That's what happens. And Renoir didn't point. Verso did.
>stuff means something else if you change several details
inspired

>>713235941
different guy, but I do feel differently. I can't prove that she really can bring people back perfectly since it's made-up nonsense magic, but I judged from the (admittedly limited) evidence we get that whatever it is she does is close enough that it's worth doing. I don't imagine I'll be convincing you otherwise, but I think the "judgment call" thing is the point. We don't get to know the particulars, so we each have to approach it how we think is best.

>>713240135
I agree with you. It's a misdirection. I don't think it's particularly cheap.

The camera zooms in to Alicia, but Renoir is talking about Maelle. And then Verso says "rules between you" where he actually means Real Renoir rather than Painted Renoir. That's the interpretation that makes more sense to me. The line "rules between you" is nonsensical otherwise and the idea of using Alicia even more so.

>>713240332
yeah it was Verso, mistyped.

>>713240236
>If the author sufficiently communicated whatever it is he wanted to communicate,
The only reason you seethe and post "death of the author" in every single thread is because nobody agrees with your interpretations.
>Instead you go "THE AUTHOR SAYS THAT HE MEANT IT THIS WAY"
Yes, when someone asks "what did the author mean by x?" that's a valid response. Someone asking to be told what something means either isn't looking to argue in favor of their own interpretation or doing a poor job of setting it up.
>Which is why your absolutely boring practice of just trying to be absolutist by grabbing the word of god
You are wildly misinterpreting what I've said. My position is that the vast majority of the story's details were left intentionally vague by the others because this is meant to be a highly interpretive work. That doesn't mean that there aren't some fundamentals that they didn't make quite clear.
>>713240292
>Death of the Author as a theory is completely correct.
It's literally just a guy's opinion. I'm not even saying it's wrong, but you agreeing with it doesn't make it "correct." By your logic I could pick any of its criticisms and say they are completely correct and refute you. That would all be retarded.

>>713240548
>By your logic I could pick any of its criticisms and say they are completely correct and refute you
The irony, of course, being that you think you're refuting anything anyone else is saying by going "But the author said this"

>>713240286
clea is waiting for me

>>713240335
>but I think the "judgment call" thing is the point.
That's me you're responding to and I totally agree.
>>713240406
>The camera zooms in to Alicia, but Renoir is talking about Maelle.
What? Why do you think that? "You would use her?" is very obviously referring to pAlicia. The "rules between you" is referring to the rules parents put on their children. pRenoir and pAlicia live as father and daughter.

verso's ending is the best because it's actually renoir's ending and renoir is the best character

>>713240653
Thank you for changing your mind, conceding entirely, and fully agreeing with me.
>but I didn't
I interpreted your post as doing just that.

>>713240674
>"You would use her?" is very obviously referring to pAlicia.
He's not using her at all for anything. The best interpretation that I've seen ITT is that "He's using her by having her be witness so that Renoir doesn't want to fight", which is a way bigger stretch than what I suggested.
>The "rules between you" is referring to the rules parents put on their children.
Another bigger stretch than what I suggested.

So what's to stop Renoir and Aline from coming back to the Canvas on the Maelle ending? I think I missed a plot point regarding this

>>713240821
Nothing. Maelle convinced Renoir not to intervene in the end. As for what Aline is gonna do, who knows. She's certainly not gonna delete the canvas.

>>713240731
>which is a way bigger stretch than what I suggested.
Anon, Renoir ceases trying to remove Maelle after Verso points out Alicia's presence. That is simply what is happening. How you've managed to convince yourself "actually verso is talking about an entirely different person who is not here, and about a different situation that has no relevance here" is less of a stretch is not something I'm interesting in exploring. Good night.

>>713185991 (OP)
should be maelle pussy eating simulator
sequel prequel doesn't matter

>>713240821
Nothing, my belief is that Renoir will eventually drag her out. Or, Aline will go in and support Alicia and they'll both simply die in there, assuming Renoir and Clea cannot combine and overcome them.

>>713239653
I can agree somewhat that referring to the authors intentions has value in discussing themes, however I dont think this is one of those cases. This is all my opinion of course but the devs come across as disingenuous. First by saying that the point of the endings was to have the player be conflicted, thereby ruling out an obvious better ending. Obviously art is conflicting, but that is usually a byproduct of the greater themes, whereas here its the end goal. Secondly they also said that the story is more about the relationship with art itself, and how we engage with it vs using it to escape, when it's very obvious the story is centered more on grief. People are going to say its a game about grief using art to escape, not about art itself. So I think they failed to portray their vision. Therefore I don't think referencing their intentions in arguments has much value.

>>713185991 (OP)
There is no need to be a Clair Obscure 2. They can do another game with another thing going for it. It would only unravel the power of the game if they made a sequel.

>>713240982
>when it's very obvious the story is centered more on grief.
It sounds like you've taken one of your own interpretations, "this is what I thought of the piece," and conflated it with "this is what the piece IS."
>People are going to say
You certainly do, and you're free to feel that way. I feel differently. Grief is the primary motivator for Aline and Alicia, but certainly not for Renoir, whos motivator is hope that his family can overcome if they're reunited. It's certainly not the motivator for the Lumierens, who are willing to lay down their lives because they are not succumbing to the grief of their situation. The story features grief quite prominently. That does not mean it's centered on it.
>the devs come across as disingenuous because it was their goal to have different people see different merits of two different arguments, and that's what ended up happening
Baffling

>>713187478
There is no need for Marvel capeshit garbage...

>>713215684
>Several typewriters in her room along with a whole library

Double agent much?

>>713240406
>>713240674
>>713240731
>>713240876
Those sentences you're arguing about are confusing but I was already confused before even that
>A lifetime, a lifetime with my family torn apart, no, I want my family back
>It's not your family
What did Verso mean by this?

>>713240982
>thereby ruling out an obvious better ending.
it seems like almost everyone thought there was an obvious better ending, and that that was the purpose of the presentation. 90% of the discussion in every thread in the months the game has been released has been about peoples' feelings on the endings and most of that has been "this one is clearly better than that one."

>>713241234
Alicia killed Verso book it how dare she read and write

>>713240876
>Anon, Renoir ceases trying to remove Maelle after Verso points out Alicia's presence
Not him but no he doesn't. He ceased the moment Verso blocked him.

lumiere life must be so weird in maelle's ending, imagine knowing your party member has the ability to literally bring back everyone from the dead and do god knows what else, the social dynamics must be all fucked up at that point

>>713240982
>Obviously art is conflicting, but that is usually a byproduct of the greater themes, whereas here its the end goal.
This is my biggest problem with the authors. The endings are the equivalent of clickbait or an internet troll, just to spur controversy and discussion for their game. The rest of the game is linear, commit to an actual ending you fucks. Multiple endings are fake and gay.

>>713241240
>A lifetime, a lifetime with my family torn apart, no, I want my family back
Directly after telling Verso that he walked away, and also referring to the fact that Aline is utterly shattered because all of her power is spent resisting real Renoir. The family is in tatters, all pRenoir has is pAlicia. They can only be together again if Aline wins the conflict and pushes out rRenoir.
>It's not your family
Verso isn't doing this for the painted family, whom hes come to see as a threat to the wellbeing of the real Dessendres (Aline and Alicia) trapped in the canvas.
>but she is
He reveals that pAlicia is here, and pRenoir won't have a knockdown dragout fight with Verso in front of her. And it works, pRenoir ceases attacking Maelle, whom Verso is defending.

>>713241267
Not him but I think they made the endings even through dishonest means. The mechanics of how Maelle can bring people back are completely nonsensical. Why were those Lumiere NPCs without color?

Lune wins

>>713241332
These are ultimately people who care for each other, they almost always take the opportunity to talk when they meet. You can see the look on pRenoir's face after Verso says "I didn't make the rules" and turns his back and tells Maelle to leave. pRenoir could've tired to hit her but doesn't want to continue fighting with Verso in front of pAlicia.

>>713241240
The torn family exists in the "real world" and so is not pRenoir's to claim.
I think

>>713240821
My assumption is that both Renoir and Aline are too fucked up from their extended stay in the canvas to jump in immediately without Alicia just booting them out now that she has full control over the chroma.
>"She who controls chroma, controls the Canvas." -Clea
There's also the possibility that Aline will just team up with Alicia to maintain the canvas if she jumps back in, and she's a better painter than Renoir, which would make things twice as hard, if not impossible, for Renoir to try and boot her out again.

The only outlier would be Clea, but she's preoccupied with the Writers. A lot of dialogue points to her being an incredibly skilled painter, but nothing about whether she's actually better than Aline. If she were I imagine she would've done more than just give Renoir a slight edge with the Nevrons.

All that and the time dilation inside/out probably means that Alicia will either die or go insane by the time they figure something out.

>>713241506
The Painter mechanics in general are completely nonsensical desu senpai, even without that
Game goes by on vibes, it was not meant to be analyzed this deep

>>713241454
>still mad he didn't get the ending he wanted
>>713241506
>dishonest means.
What on earth could this possibly mean?
>Maelle can bring people back are completely nonsensical
Verso explains them well enough. If you understand the essence of the person and have their chroma, you can bring them back. Alicia has access to all the chroma (besides people killed by nevrons) after Renoir is kicked out. Details like the Lumiere NPCs being white (like the defective nevrons we encounter) are there to make you wonder if Alicia is skilled enough or understands Lumiere enough to truly restore it. There's a ton of little details there for your brain to take note of as you decide how you feel about what you're presented. Personally, I felt the city being in ruins and the lumierens being borderline mannequins suggested Alicia was unable to bring them back, or unwilling because she only cared to pretend Verso was alive.

>>713241506
I think the idea was that they're wearing formalwear at the opera, but didn't want to make a bunch of new dipshit NPC outfits for that one shot. Maelle, Lune, and Sciel are wearing white too. Gustave is wearing blue, but I figure they thought it was more important that people recognize him at a glance.

>>713241732
>are there to make you wonder if Alicia is skilled enough or understands Lumiere enough to truly restore it
But the contradiction is that she is somehow skilled enough to bring Sciel's husband back. And she was also able to bring Sciel back with 100% synchronicity, perhaps because she had been gommaged for a very short time before Maelle put her back.
And no, I don't buy Maelle is a piece of shit and doesn't care to bring Lumiere back.
It feels like a fake dilemma. Something that was artificially put in there to try to make the endings more equal. The game is contradicting what it showed otherwise, and in fact, what it's showing me at that very moment.

>>713241732
>still mad he didn't get the ending he wanted
not an argument

>>713241737
This isn't formalwear, and the gommage cutscene in Lumiere in the beginning already had Lumierens in colorful clothes that they could've reused. It was a conscious decision to leave them all white.
>Lune and Sciel
are wearing a white top with black pants, identical outfits to Alicia for some reason.
>Gustave is wearing blue
the last civilian clothes Maelle remembers him in. Same as Sophie, whose outfit is anything but formal, but simply also the last thing Maelle saw her in.

>>713241737
Alright, now THAT makes sense. Budgetary reasons are completely understandable. Maybe I just read too much into it.

>>713229325
Do we know who actually painted the Lumerians? I think Old Lumiere predates Aline coming to the canvas to grieve, and the Fracture was the fight between Aline and Renoir which ended with Renoir trapped beneath the Monolith (and Lumiere ripped out of its old place and chucked south). I think Clea and (real) Verso painted them, but Clea re-painted them into weapons against Aline to help Renoir.

Another thing that points to budgetary reasons in that shot is how poorly done the zoom in is. Monoco and Esquie are there, very static, Esquie is reusing his belly pounding dialogue animation. Probably just an oversight.

>>713241839
>she is somehow skilled enough to bring Sciel's husband back.
Is she? That's as much an assumption as anything else. We see him sitting next to Sciel. It's not like they have any conversations or do anything that would test how sophisticated his reconstruction was.
>Sciel
and lune, yes, she grabbed their Chroma a very short time after they were gommaged.
> I don't buy Maelle is a piece of shit and doesn't care to bring Lumiere back.
I feel that her true colors showed when the chips were all down during her fight with Verso. These are just my interpretations, of course, but I hope you'll see there's some logic to them.

>>713241165
This is the problem with the discourse surrounding the game as a whole. There is no point to any of it. Any opinion gets deflected as "yeah thats the point keep talking". Cant even talk about the ending because the point is to be conflicted, keep going in circles talking about it. You dont like it? Well it doesnt matter it's just your opinion. Half the people get genocided in the beginning and the rest of the game is spent trying to survive in their memory, all the while being used as a chess piece in the greater family drama that arises from the death of a loved one? Yeah bro you'd think it was about grief but sike not really. It's at least interesting watching discussion about whether Maelle or Verso is right but if you start to dig more into the details it just turns into headcanon territory. You're probably going to ask what's wrong with that, all art is interpretive right? I dont know man, the art I value has something to say, even if it's stupid, it tells me something like the world sucks, or how society functions from different perspectives, it says something. This game has nothing to say, it just wants us to go in circles like mice in a cage talking about it.

>>713241939
The interpretation that makes the most sense to me is that Verso didn't paint any humans because why would he? The clash of humanity and the silly creatures feels very much like it was Aline that added the humans later.

Because of time distortion, Aline could have been, say, half a week in Lumiere and Renoir only learned of it at that point and went in. Lumiere got to have half a year or whatever before they started fighting and the fracture happened.

>>713241737
>>713241870
whoops, uploaded t he wrong file.
>this isn't formalware
>>713241956
>a game entirely about visual representations just cheaped out on the visuals during the most important cutscene
You're either being disingenuous or don't want to acknowledge that some of these details provide room for Alicia's ending to be quite dark.

>>713241964
>That's as much an assumption as anything else. We see him sitting next to Sciel. It's not like they have any conversations or do anything that would test how sophisticated his reconstruction was.
Sciel seems very happy with Pierre by her standards. That tells me it's a good reconstruction.
>and lune, yes, she grabbed their Chroma a very short time after they were gommaged.
Right, ok, so more arbitrary unmentioned mechanics I have to keep track of. It's lazy.

>>713242042
Look at how fucking lazy Monoco and Esquie look there. Reusing poses and animations. Monoco is completely static while Esquie does his belly pounding thing he does in the game already. It's a very low effort shot.

>>713241976
I'm simply blown away that after years of /v/ rightfully bitching about game devs shoving meanings down our throats and telling us what to think, fags like you get mad that a game came out that was intended to be interpreted by the player. Sometimes a story is just a story and it's up to you to decide how you feel about it.

>>713241939
>Do we know who actually painted the Lumerians?
Yes, Aline
> I think Old Lumiere predates Aline coming to the canvas to grieve
It doesn't.
> I think Clea and (real) Verso painted them
Verso painted the world into existence, and the grandis, esquie, and the gestrals. Clea painted nevrons. Aline painted Lumiere and Lumierens. Renoir painted the axons, and the nevrons in the axon areas.

>>713241976
>This game has nothing to say, it just wants us to go in circles like mice in a cage talking about it.
Well said

>>713241976
>>713242227
I think you're letting a bunch of shitposters that want to suck the cock of the authors color your judgement of the work itself too hard.
Ultimately, what was your problem with either of the endings?

>>713242149
Yeah, it seems to me like a big queue of un-moving people despite plenty of open seats, Alicia looking around for her friends like they'd be anywhere but right up front, and Gustave rolling by just to give a smile and then fuck off are all just Alicia painting a scene to provide verisimilitude and allow her to feel she's really watching Verso, who never died (certainly not in a way that was my fault), play piano. So I guess I'm faced with a choice:
>this game that put everything it had into visual representations just stopped caring when it came to the most important one
or
>those details meant something
hmm

>>713242159
Here's how I feel about Expedition 33's story: Lune has cute feet. Take that interpretation and shove it up your ass.

>>713242324
>>this game that put everything it had into visual representations just stopped caring when it came to the most important one
To some extent, it clearly did, as seen with Monoco and Esquie. So why is it such a stretch?

>>713242346
But anon, you posted one of the few objectively true details of the game.

>>713242303
My problem is the existing of multiple endings in the game at all. The game is a linear experience with almost no player choice in the story, it should only have one ending so that the story is a cohesive work of art from beginning to end. If they even took one of the existing endings (I don't care which one) and committed to it, the game would be much more satisfying.

>>713242382
I don't believe it did with Monoco and Esquie. I believe a great many details (gustave and sophie's clothing, lune and sciel's clothing, the apparently unpainted people standing in line, the identical and randomly spaced people in the opera house seats, Esquie and Monoco's stances, the city being in ruins despite the restored opera house) are all meant to stand out to you, and Verso's black-and-white appearance is meant to make it click that something here is very wrong, with the final shot of Alicia crumbling driving it all home. I feel that the devs making these congruent details on purpose is more likely than "yeah nah we just said fuck it at the end."

>>713242631
they did admit to running out of time and budget towards the end tho

>>713242485
The introduction of the choices involves you as a player in the art on another level. The story was not meant to be "satisfying" in the way, but like all tragedies, it was meant to make you ache, I think. Both endings present so much sadness that when you're faced with them it's hard not to wonder about the happiness the other might have held. This is entirely lost on most of /v/ who are content to say "MY ENDING IS OBJECTIVELY BETTER, WHAT ARE YOU RETARDED?"

>>713242631
I disagree. Looks like some intern did that zoom in shot. Monoco and Esquie have no reason to feel odd there no matter the interpretation because they were never gommaged.

It's also consistent with the fact that a lot of the game feels like it peters out a bit on the third act. The third act is easily the least well designed part of the game from a gameplay perspective and the final boss fight is considerably less interesting than the Paintress.

>>713242667
I think that presents itself with the rushed feeling of the gameplay in act 3 (more budget could've easily led to the gathering of the chroma being gameplay instead of a cutscene) rather than in the ending cutscenes. Regardless, if you're going to invoke what the devs said, I'd like to see it myself. Where did they admit to that?

>>713242750
>some intern
yeah it's definitely the case that the small AA studio had a bunch of interns they entrusted the most important cutscenes in the game to. I've never felt like someone blaming the budget for the presentation of the ending cutscenes was arguing in good faith and you've certainly not changed my mind on that. Sorry Alicia's ending wasn't more unambiguously happy.

In the final boss fight, they have a part where the Clea Axon supports Renoir by throwing a boulder. The axon throws it from behind and he's very conveniently hidden by a building so that you can't see him at all, so it's just a flying boulder. The idea that these developers didn't fuck up some small touches at the end is just false.

>>713242159
>after years of /v/ rightfully bitching about game devs shoving meanings down our throats and telling us what to think, fags like you get mad that a game came out that was intended to be interpreted by the player
source? examples? hyperbolic nonsense. Most gamers get mad at DEI and wokeness infecting games. Games that have a story that pushes a meaning or tries to show us something from another perspective is always welcome. That's what invites true conflict, even if it's not always agreed with. It forces you to pull from your understanding of the world to challenge its notions. I will always prefer that compared to vague interpretive sludge

>>713242837
They likely didn't think anyone was gonna be analyzing that establishing shot to this degree lol

>>713242837
>hauler is initially dead, doesn't have a fight, doesn't have a moving model
>sirene is initially alive, has complex moving model, can easily and visually join the fight
>hurr why didn't the hauler show up why didn't they make it a combat model for one attack?

>>713242704
Everyone's just gonna reload a save or watch whatever ending they didn't pick on Youtube though, so the choice is meaningless. The writers obviously know this, too. They could have written it as a tragedy with a single ending. They could have just picked the Verso ending and not have the Maelle ending at all and it would have been better but they would have rather had the controversy and were worried about people being mad (potentially even people on their own team).

It reeks of being an 11th hour compromise and its lame.

>>713242704
The way it involves the player is well done. I can say that and also say the endings were forced tragedy for the sake of tragedy because I am capable of highly nuanced opinions

>>713243005
For the same reason why the zoom in shot looks odd. Budget limitations and realistic scoping.

>>713242754
source: it came to me in a dream

>>713242750
The black and white piano close up scene of Verso in Maelle's ending is the most beautiful and haunting shot in the game. Care, detail, soul and passion that oozes in that scene.

To precede that with something that is unmeaningful and according to you, "corner cut", absolutely makes zero sense.

>>713242704
>it was meant to make you ache
Why are the French such sado-masochists? If people want to ache so bad they should hit their balls with a hammer.

>>713243058
Oh I'm not gonna pretend that every angle in the fight was perfectly executed so I'll just say you're probably right.
>>713243017
>Everyone's just gonna reload a save or watch whatever ending they didn't pick on Youtube though, so the choice is meaningless.
One resonated with you, you picked one. First. For a reason.
>They could have written it as a tragedy with a single ending.
Interactivity is one of the advantages video games have over books and movies/tv. I'm not going to be mad that these devs utilized it.
> They could have just picked the Verso ending and not have the Maelle ending at all and it would have been better
Why, because it would give you a more solid argument on Verso being some kind of backstabbing genocider? I get that you're angry they didn't present Alicia's ending as sunshine and rainbows, but you need to move on. "I would've liked it more" does not mean "it would've been better."

>>713243057
>forced tragedy for the sake of tragedy
how so?

>>713243190
Yeah, I'm only referring to the zoom in shot. Everything from the moment Maelle is with the boy inside (So, immediately after that webm ends) is well done.

The facial expressions look a bit odd but no odder than they look anywhere else in the game. The game bit off more than it could chew in that department. Maelle's smile looks odd in the entire game and I was already noticing it in the Prologue.

>>713243209
They're on their like 5th republic since the revolution, they've seen some shit.
>>713243057
What an incredibly subjective and unfalsifiable argument. Thanks.
>>713243190
Aliciafags are just bitter about their ending. Those details suggest that something is off, which makes them uncomfortable, so they'd rather write it off as the whole thing being sloppily finished.

>>713243226
>One resonated with you, you picked one. First. For a reason.
I picked Maelle's because she had been in the party longer and is cute, I thought the choice was stupid from the moment it was presented though and was rolling my eyes at it.
>Interactivity is one of the advantages video games have over books and movies/tv. I'm not going to be mad that these devs utilized it.
I'd barely consider this interactivity. If there were branching paths or quests with multiple distinct outcomes that have impact later in the story I'd consider it as fitting in with the rest of the game, but it's just splashed in at the end because they didn't want to commit and wanted to stir the pot
>>They could have just picked the Verso ending and not have the Maelle ending at all and it would have been better
Stop being a troll and putting words into my mouth

>>713243190
Anon, you can see for yourself how bad Monoco and Esquie look. That is clearly a huge difference of effort between the scene you described and what is shown there.

>>713243294
>Starts out on the city, in ruins
>Continue to the operahouse, restored, with those outside of it appearing unfinished and unmoving
>Continue to Esquie and Monoco, whom Alicia doesn't particularly care about but knows are important to Verso, just standing around
>Now inside the operahouse, things are more detailed, especially as we get close to the stage, where all the people Alicia thinks Maelle cared about have gathered
>Finally, Verso, in stunning detail and clarity, looking in utter despair
Almost like the shots were in order of getting closer and closer to the things Alicia is bothering to put effort into. You just don't like that it suggests Lumiere is very not-okay under her stewardship.

>>713243226
>Why, because it would give you a more solid argument on Verso being some kind of backstabbing genocider? I get that you're angry they didn't present Alicia's ending as sunshine and rainbows
>>713243320
>Aliciafags are just bitter about their ending
lmfao what a weird persecution complex by this versofag

>>713243527
That's a very cool interpretation you got, anon. I respect it. I don't believe it, though. I sincerely think you put way more thought into that zoom in shot than the devs did.

>>713243494
>h-her ending was fine
>in f-f-fact I thought it was dumb to even h-have a choice!
aliciafag cope just getting more and more shameful

>>713243294
that's just the uncanny valley, it's the same with Sciel. Now that's something that can be explained with budgetary restrictions.

>>713186445
Fucking barely even looks like her.
God damn, just pay some actual, real life whore to paint some gold lines on her legs while pulling her eyelids back next time, at least that would be funny.

>>713243590
I don't think her ending was fine. I guess now you're just trying to stir the pot. I guess this anon >>713243549 is right lmao

>>713194857
They knew Goddamn well what they were doing when her conversation in camp after recruiting Monoco was "Feet? Really?"

>>713243664
Comic relief done extremely right.

>>713243590
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MAELLE IS WRONG VERSO IS THE CORRECT OPTION! AAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE WHY CAN'T YOU SEE IT, ESCAPISM IS NOT HEALTHY! THE PAINTED WORLD IS FALSE! IT'S POWERED BY VERSO'S SOUL AND IT WILL END WHEN IT KILLS MAELLE REGARDLESS!

Look, I'm sorry it's just that Verso was such a lying, shifty cunt that I think he deserves to be condemned to the damnation of being a soul battery to power his sister's delusional painted heaven, and I'm NOT sorry.
el
oh
el
fuck Verso.

Verso? More like Play That Fucking Piano, amirite?

>>713242704
image would be perfect if its Maelle with Aline in the straight track

>>713244010
b-b-based

>>713244010
Enjoy ur paintface aids

>>713244610
That's ok Verso, you can take solace in that YOU'RE powering my paintface aids.

Thank you for your sacrifice.

>>713185991 (OP)
It will probably be a completely new title and new gameplay where you discover that you're still in the same universe but in a different kind of art.

maelle's ending:
>maelle is happy
>gustav is happy
>lune and sciel are happy
>everyone is happy
>verso gets to fuck lune and sciel for hundreds of years at least
>but MUH VERSO IS LE SAD AND DEPRESSED

Verso's ending
>Everyone's dead
>verso, a being just as fake as the rest of lumiere by his standards, FORCES this genoicde on everyone including REAL PEOPLE, without explaining anything, because he can't live up to the real verso or this is just a fake painting or he is le sad or some bullshit nonsense.
>everyone she grew up with in lumiere are gone forever
>verso's soul fragment is gone forever
>maelle is sad

how can anyone argue for verso's ending?

>>713219598
Oh shit. That sounds plausible.
>real world is not real at all
>it's all just a fictive world by the writers
>the Dessendres wage war against the writers because they writers kill off characters in the book
>all that shit is basically their gommage and they fight against their creators to survive like the people in the painted world

>>713237706
>>713240660
Simon shut the fuck up you're supposed to guard the bottom of the Monolith.

>>713185991 (OP)
Don't know if a sequel would work.But they can definitely make a prequel

>>713246512
>>Everyone's dead
Paintings cannot die based delusional anon

>>713246808
Aline couldn't remember her daughter right when painting the fake Alicia.
It is alluded also in the game that most of this shit is memory based and is not lossless.
So even if Alicia/maelle decides to just repaint Lumiere and its people, it will not be the same people/place. (if she can even remember it right)

>>713246512
I hate how the lyrics of this game's soundtrack HEAVILY favor Verso's ending.
Maelle sisters this shit is so unfair

>>713246518
the writers could be Sandfall themselves

>>713185991 (OP)
It's a complete, self-contained story. It doesn't need anything more, although I wouldn't be averse to DLC.

>>713193016
they say it's a miracle, but honestly it's not that big of a deal, most indie game successes have some component of randomly finding a cool composer/character artist/etc
fact is these people are everywhere, many of them are only stuck doing nothing because they don't have the leadership skills and/or courage and because the mainstream video game industry just fucking sucks ass at "extracting" their talent

>>713198916

>>713216327
>the writers are the complete opposite, instead of individual paintings it's all one giant manuscript of collaborative writing
>they hate painters for creating and destroying worlds on a whim, but they are not portrayed as evil at all, the attack on the Dessendres was even an extremist attack they are fully and honestly condemn
>the issue with the writers is that they are very conformist and having to write only for the single manuscript is quite a bit of a constraint on creativity
also calling their conflict a "war" is just the Dessendres being dramatic because of course

>>713185991 (OP)
Imagine being stupid enough to spread your legs for the guy who betrayed you TWICE, and then act shocked when he betrays you yet again.

my biggest problem with Maelle's ending is that it's never going to hold, Renoir is definitely trying again soon and this time he has the fire ready and is burning the thing the moment Alicia is out

>>713185991 (OP)
Not everything needs a sequel or to become a milkable IP.

new favorite song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtwQ-Kfbrug

>>713185991 (OP)
new story or make it about CLea's war on the Writers

>>713230082
ugly

>>713185991 (OP)
>Clair Obscure 2

I don't think it needs another game. I believe the developers told the story they wanted to tell, and it had a concrete ending. Games like that really don't need a sequel. It was unique and told a story from beginning to end.

>>713198916
>>713185991 (OP)
I thought it was hot that she still CRAVED dick from Verso despite being so obsessed with research and data. It shows that she still had needs and experienced arousal.

I don't know, just found that hot. It's like the nerdy girl that you think has no libido or desire for sex, but then you found out she likes dick just as much as any other girl.

>>713242159
Its literally what happens in Expedition 33, it shows down a message about "le grief" and "escapism bad" at the end, at the cost of characters and world building, and ofcourse they gotta be subversive.

But yea just putting Dark souls style bullshit that makes ppl questions writers didnt even think of is not something ppl actually care about.

>>713254116
>message about "le grief" and "escapism bad" at the end
not at all retard
the ending is about Art legacy

>>713254349
the what?

>>713254542
retard

>>713246512
not his fault they introduced tragedy and grief to a kid's painting that was only filled with shit like esquie and gestrals, they brought it on themselves
they can paint their own shitty ass lumiere if they want to

>>713254648
If it has anything to do with "art" its a meta commentary about how they got tired of "painting" - making the game, tired of anime and fantasy, so they switched their focus to soap opera and melodrama, and at the end they bury their own game they got tired of making.

>>713198916
Now that's a bush.

>>713254830
the art is at the center of the ending retard.
the whole dilemma is 'does the Artist still has ownership over his art after death or can anyone claim his art for themselves".
Maelle represents the second statement as she forces young Verso (the artist) to keep painting after death to express her own fantasies while pVerso makes young Verso stop meaning his art will remain his untouched legacy forever.
fucking third world retard

>>713255169
What legacy? The art is destroyed? Do you think we should destroy Mona Lisa to preserve Davinci's legacy?

>>713254830
it's about all the things you discussed. and more.

>>713185991 (OP)
New story, maybe set in the same universe but that's it. Story of the first one didn't leave much of a hook for anything directly, so trying to make a direct sequel feels forced

>>713185991 (OP)
TLOU taught me not to wish for a sequel, no matter how much I loved the characters

Why did Verso help Maelle storm Lumiere to fight Renoir when he agreed with Renoir and wanted to destroy the canvas?

>>713185991 (OP)
Expedition 60 game!

>>713193016
All this tells me is he is really good at finding the right people.

>>713200886
don't be a ricecel anon

I went with Maelle purely out of feeling of responsibility towards the painted world and its inhabitants. It was one aspect the game didn't really dwell on - apart from Verso, no other character doesn't feel any angst or anguish or doubt over the idea that they don't "really" exist... although one could argue that the lives they lived were real enough for them, which is all that matters (though this idea might be in conflict with the themes presented by the other ending) and because of that, there are now entire generations of people whose existence is dependant on Maelle. She should look after them, even if it costs her her life.

The ""good"" ending where she moves on doesn't even try to look at things from that particular point of view. Which is surprising, it's as if the devs didn't think much of the characters themselves. Or maybe they didn't want to go into the trouble of tackling those problems

please for the love of FUCK, NO sequels or prequels. this game was amazing and is strong enough to stand on it's own. trying to milk it will only ruin it

>>713185991 (OP)
they need to start over. you cant do the same twist twice and people already proved that once they know characters "aren't real" they stop caring about them

>>713203071
What's the best hapa combination with white?

Chinese or Japanese?

>>713216893
Well good thing the first one wasn't a "just a dream" story. I understand that a smoothbrain might take it like that though. Hopefully the normies get a little smarter

>>713242893
>Games that have a story that pushes a meaning or tries to show us something from another perspective is always welcome

Meanwhile, in 99% of TLoU2 threads on /v/...

>>713240236
>>713240292
This is all postmodernist communist bullshit used by homosexual french pedophiles (triple tautology) to justify writing books about wanting to rape little boys btw

>>713258625
Japanese.

>>713222316
>Movie
Source? I hope not, i don't think it would translate well into a movie

>>713253303
They should keep Clair obscur name, and do completely different setting and mechanics.

>>713258625
Better for sons? Korean or Mongol, their bigger jawline helps them look more chad. Better for daughters? Japanese, because of their softer features. Chinese can really depend on the region and what ethnic group they belong to. I personally prefer Southern Chinese+White mixes. t.yellow fever enthusiast.