Thread 717571103

Can fighting games be saved?

>>717571103 (OP)
Aren't the majority of fighting game people japs and black dudes on consoles though

>>717571103 (OP)
>MK
Oooof

>>717571237
FGC is white troons, blacks, spics and east Asians

>>717571103 (OP)
nah, too autistic, too many stakes for very little reward. You are put agaisnt no lifes and swearlords who have labbed/played for decades at times, it's just a shit genre like RTS PvP, ppl can't handle getting fucked again and again and we all know niggercattle can't improve so gg

>>717571441
Damn anon, you hit everything on the fighting game excuses bingo sheet in one post. Usually that stuff gets spread out throughout a fighting game thread.

>>717571103 (OP)
Those are premium games, not free to play titles. How many players they have compared to units sold isn't that important.
Case in point, every MK barely has any players in Steam yet those games sell more than anything else in the genre.
>inb4 BUT MK1 flopped???
Was the same with X and 11.
Strive despite being shit has sold like 3 million units, way more than any original game by its company not based on Dragon Ball.

tl;dr steamchart posters are retarded

>>717571103 (OP)
Lol not you can save a fundamentally shitty genre with brainrot gameplay

>>717571103 (OP)
With a genre shift it can be saved, otherwise it's inherently the opposite of fun.

>>717571103 (OP)
Modern controls helped sf6 a lot, most people don't want to lab for hours perfecting combos and frame data, they just wanna fight

>>717571575
Is there an actual bingo sheet? I wouldn't mind having on of those for these threads?

>>717571860
I never understood the modern control thing, do people actually think that being able to do the move was the only barrier keeping them from being good at fighting games?
>"Hooray, I can do a shouryuken now!"
>*whiffs*
>*gets punished for it and dies*

You still need to learn how to play a fighting game.

>>717571586
units sold is a shit indicator of game quality anyways. random fotm indie games nowadays sell in the millions. imagine spending 6 years """developing""" your next fighting game (aka just change numbers around and upgrade graphics) while you spend millions and millions on operational costs, just to be beat in sales by a random indie game that was made in 3 months, kek.

fighting games are bottom of the barrel type games. played and enjoyed solely by subhumans.

>>717571103 (OP)
There's been no shake ups in fighting games for over a decade
The most you get is either a street fighter or a mvc game
1v1 or 3v3 swapouts.
Combos are all the same so nothing new to learn
Stages are just different backgrounds
There's no selling point for new players in games that havent evolved since before they were born
Anything new is rejected by the fgc who are all autistic weirdos.

>>717571987
>I never understood the modern control thing, do people actually think that being able to do the move was the only barrier keeping them from being good at fighting games?
You're seeing it in black and white, where the only two options are noob and pro.
Modern controls tackle the issue with pic related, the gulf between the dudes who spent two hours in training mode last weekend and has the movelist memorized, and the casuals who maybe play it once or twice a month at a friend's house.
You will say:
>well they should just practice for two hours
But you have to remember that they don't need to do that for literally any other genre, they don't want to, and if you want them to play your game you either need to cater to that mentality (with things like modern controls) or just accept OP's pic.

>>717572283
It's a dead-end genre, a lot like turn-based JRPGs. How do you "shake up" fighting games without fundamentally changing what the genre is? Can you come up with a single original suggestion?

>All casualized trash with ugly as fuck characters
>FGC is literally owned by Sony and filled completely with tranny zesty niggers
>Every game is filled with microtransactions
No, it's dead, been dead since 7th gen and that was a walking corpse that SF4 agitated.

Still a walking corpse however

>>717572629
Literaly just turn them into beat em ups with a PvP component.
It's not that hard
Not everyone wants this 1vs1 Esports shit and it's even less tempting when it's not local anymore.

Singleplayer/Coop Beat Em Up for casual fun alone or with friends and 1vs1 fightan PvP mode with movesets and damage values tweaked for that partocular gamemode.
>Oh but that will dilute the 1v1 fightan
Nigger they're already diluted and casual as fuck

>>717573004
nta but that's not making adjustments to a fighting game, you're literally just asking for a different genre entirely.
That's like saying that a flight sim should turn into a game where you race cars.

>>717573004
>Literaly just turn them into beat em ups
Then just go play a beat em up?
Why do people that don't play fighting games want fighting games to stop being fighting games? I never hear about FPS threads being filled with anons that want to turn CoD into an RTS.

>>717571103 (OP)
these are healthy player bases

>>717573291
>Why do you want FPS games to be more than 6 guys in an arena?
>Why do you want more content?
Can't wait for the genre and it's community of retarded faggots to disappear

>>717573385
>>717573004
I've seen you post this shit several times already and I cannot tell if the whole thing is just you doing a bit of if you are genuinely fucking stupid.
Nice work m8, excellent bait

>>717571103 (OP)
The biggest insurmountable mechanical issue with fighting games is that they're too difficult. There are many complexities to multiplayer FPS, but the key idea of running around and clicking on enemies is super simple. Same goes for MOBAs - insanely complex mechanics, but the basics are simple - click the enemies on your lane to death and blow up their base before they do the same to you. These genres grab you with a simple premise, and then drag you in deeper.
Fighting games are not like that; there's no low-level play. You can mash, but that's like randomly running around and shooting at everything in an FPS. That's not playing, that's pressing buttons, and it's not fun. Doing that with a friend can be fun, you both go apeshit and blow some steam for an hour, but coach coop is fucking dead and so are the arcades. The best you can do is play with friends on Discord, but at that point, you have far more interesting ways to waste time together, like the aforementioned shooters and mobas.
So there's no casual play, but that's not a death sentence. Games like chess or TCGs don't really have it either; you have to learn the rules before you play, but people still love them. The other issue is that rules of fightans are extremely fucking obscure. They were written by obsessive sweaty nerds, and never spelled out in plain language. What the fuck is a frametrap, for example? Well, you have frames on block, and frames on hit, and one will end before the other, so you subtrack those numbers, and the one who gets out first can hit back early, but we're talking split-second decisions so you really gotta know what to do, so try hit confirms first, but they also have frames you gotta count, and you also gotta know the combos... It all sounds like boring gobbledygook to anyone with a semblance of life even on paper, and requires surgical precision ot perform in practice. And that's the real problem, and it can't be avoided without stripping FGs of their identity.

>>717573508
First time I posted this shit on 4cuck
Don't think I posted it in any other forum

3D Action games already fightan depth combos, some Beat Em Ups have them as well, just max 2D Beat Em Ups and Fightans.
You get the casuals and the autists

Or you can get a slow decaying death while every franchise panders to the FGC troons.

>>717571103 (OP)
>Can fighting games be saved?
Sure, all you have to do is play them.

>>717573291
I wanted the sledgehammer tps cod

>>717573690
Yeah nah, your retarded idea stands out way too much and I have absolutely seen you post it before.

>>717571879
this guy did a pretty good list of excuses >>717520842

>>717571103 (OP)
>from falling player counts
yes
>from the terrible design decisions that made every game released in the past decade garbage
no

>>717572569
>But you have to remember that they don't need to do that for literally any other genre
have you ever played counter strike ? to fire an AK after walking requires some esoteric tech. to keep it firing in that general direction also requires you to learn a spray pattern.

>>717573291
>Why do people that don't play fighting games want fighting games to stop being fighting games?
I can't answer for other cases, but when it comes to /v/ it's 100% because /v/ really likes fighting game characters (female) and they get pissed that they can't actually play any of the games that their waifus are in because this place sucks absolute dick at fighting games. So they end up resenting the genre and you end up with anons shitposting almost daily about how the genre is dying and fighting games definitely need to stop being made and turned into beat em ups or whatever.

Reminds me of the Smashfags that want a Captain Falcon beat em up game because they get filtered by F-Zero and only know the character as the Falcon Punch guy.

>>717574037
thanks anon

>>717574139
CS is one FPS out of thousands.
Meanwhile every single fighting game is like this.

>>717571103 (OP)
>Can fighting games be saved?
Yes.
>Can fighting games be saved without changing them so much that the current fighting game fans start hating them?
No.

Step one: remove multiplayer. A good fighting game should have no way to play against other people. Other people are scary and make you feel bad. AI enemies only.

>>717574139
CS2 has a toggle that shows where the spray pattern goes on your crosshair as you fire

>>717571103 (OP)
Fighting games need to have more casual components to them. I never played a fighting game in my life before sf6. But a single played rpg'esque mode (world tour) hooked me in. I played through it twice. Then I tried ranked and climbed to Diamond with classic Cammy. I quit for now, but if there was more stuff to do in singleplayer then I would still be playing

>>717574037
needs >but i dont want to learn fundamentals

>>717574607
you mean it needs
>but I don't have the gene

>>717574115
Fun game.

>>717574246
it's also the most played by a large margin
>>717574518
yes but you are not gonna follow it on reaction, it has to be learned especially with weapons like the AK.

Honestly in a world where zoomers are grinding build apm in Fortnite or counter straifing and spray control in CS, how is "moving the stick down for 2 seconds then up/rolling your thumb from down to forward" even a point of contention. baby genre

>>717573617
Any time someone mentions a "frame-perfect" move or action I lose all interest in even bothering with it.

>>717575162
its even funnier now that wasd and hitboxes exist.
Literally press s, sd, d in succession is somehow to difficult to do compared to strafing lmao

>>717574115
this game got like 1000 players after evo with Ken update and after a few days is back to discord numbers again

>>717574246
this, Take a moba like hero's of the storm, I have some hero's that play like RTS commanders, one hero thats 3 weak assholes that run around getting objectives.... hell one hero takes TWO players, one to command the legs one to command the arms/spells

you dont see shit like that in fighting games, you see shit like "This guy can throw MORE fireballs!" or "this guy has a charge up system if he hits enough! whats he get? faster? I guess?"

Give me a character that's 20 super super weak guys with there own move sets that die in 1 to 2 hits and come out in a order, give me a character thats pretty much a stage hazard where you command turrets or something and the other player has to break them while jumping/blocking gun shots ect. what ever you can think of give me fun fighters. I'm fucking SICK and TIRED of "zoner #5, grapple man #235 (this time with a bigger jump!) fighting games have been super same'y for the past 30 years and you all are surprised there dying?

>>717575495
>look guys here's exceptions for an outlier!
funny how you dont mention LoL even if its the most popular MOBA

>>717575495
Fuck off retard

>>717575559
Sorry I was trying to talk about fun games. If it helps dota 2 has a ton of fun and unique hero's such as one that can make dozens and dozens of clones of himself in seconds, hero's that can open gates the whole team can use to get anywhere on the map and the like.

still does not change my first point that moba's have TRYED to be creative at least.

>>717575709
Oof.

>>717571350
Don't forget Pakistani
They're too strong in Tekken

>>717571103 (OP)
>tfw when there will never be another fighting game as good as strive

>>717575457
Why KEN of all characters

wild how people that don't play fighting games complain about them the most

>>717575972
Because MOST people don't play fighting games anon

>>717575970
Because Ken is Terry's rival.
Ryu's SNK rival is that other guy who isn't as popular as Terry.

>>717575812
Anime fighting games are willing to throw more "out there" ideas for characters but that has the problem of people not wanting to play the game because the characters are so different/strange to deal with (on top of the complexity/fast paced nature of the games compared to something more grounded). Strive compromised on this and it worked but it's not perfect and still has it's own issues.

>>717575972
Welcome to /v/. I think at this point if SF6 won't get someone into the genre then nothing will at this point. Singleplayer content, modern controls, good netcode, autocombos, the whole shebang.

>>717575997
isn't wild how people love to be ignorant retards

>>717575972
Fighting games are a fun case study of a genre left behind by evolving hardware in an unexpected way. They were designed with arcades in mind. Playing them with friends on the couch or at an arcade is fun, but they have no place in the online-only era. So people wonder what could be done about it.

>>717576032
>Anime fighting games are willing to throw more "out there" ideas for characters
I dont know, Neko art having random zoneing and the like never really feel that "out there" to me

>>717576130
bot reply

rivals of aether 2 will singlehanded save fightan games by finally providing a GREAT 2.5D modding platform with rollback

>>717576183
I mean Guilty Gear and Blazblue in particular (moreso the older games for GG). UNI also has some ideas but Melty Blood is a little more "vanilla" (which can be seen by the character designs).

>>717571103 (OP)
If you think they need to be saved you probably aren't very good at them.

>>717576347
I guess I should've put "nigger" somewhere in that post.

>>717575302
it's just sad. zoomers are seeking out fairly high skill games yet fighting games are becoming baby easy to appeal to a market of 30 year old manchildren

>>717576580
>fighting games are becoming baby easy to appeal to a market of 30 year old manchildren
Are you LITERALLY retarded?
Games like SF6 are built specifically to appeal to zoomers, from the shitty zoomer friendly character designs, the spastic gameplay, the advertising campaigns for it.

>>717571103 (OP)
Man

Those ugly MK designs really didn't do them any favors

>>717576496
I did love zappa back in GG and bang in Blazblue and honestly they still feel very "in the box", I'm talking about some real crazy shit, off the top of my head, potion girl, 12 ingredients grow during the fight, she can mix and match them in a mini game, time freezes but she only has 5 seconds or so to beat said mini game, at the end gets a new zooning tool. There, new!

>>717571103 (OP)
Yea but they have to start creating something new and innovative instead of releasing the same game very year with a new coat of paint.

>>717571860
>sanctioned cheating helped a lot
Aimbots built into games ruined FPS forever. The same thing is going to happen to fighting games now.

>>717571103 (OP)
Nigga they're already saved. We have the best Tekken, the best Street Fighter, we have the best online network ever, we have anime games and SNK alternatives, we have Fightcade for sovlful retro fightans. We also have regular tournaments in every corner of the world. What we really need is to bring back other 3D fighters like DoA, SC and VF. We are really lacking those.

>b-but what about Season 2 controversy??
This is still the best-lookin', the best playin', the best fappen Tekken we ever had, and it's also the most balanced despite all the crazy shit that is going on. Unironically just learn to block, duck, and sidestep.
>b-but SF6 le horror engine! also my favorite steamer complained about THROW LOOPS
Game feels good, there's a lot of characters now, a lot of them has their asses exposed, and Mai is simply a masterpiece and hands down Waifu of the Year. So stop acting like a LOSER and go play some fighting games.

Not even worth the (You), do better.

They dont need to be saved, we're good.
I didnt read the thread but I suspect its full of the usual no-players with theirs retarded suggestions on how to fix the genre and make it more casual-appealing.
Not reading your retarded bullshit.

>muh complex inputs
Fantasy Strike bombed incredibly hard.
>muh pro gamers beating people
They live in the high ranks, dont worry they wont be beating your bronze ass anytime soon
>old time fans have advantage
So does every other game
>it requires actual training to be able to perform
So does every other game
>uhm ackchually you can win games in other games without training
Because theres a team that carries you, dumb fucking retard
>doesnt feel good to be bodied nonstop
Skill issue

>>717577241
>We have the best Tekken, the best Street Fighter
Shut the fuck up retard.

>>717577241
>Tekken 8
>Street Fighter 6
>best anything
jesus fucking christ

>>717572810
>with ugly as fuck characters
yeah, what's up with all fighting games now having ugly art styles and designs?

>>717575495
What you want is called a "puppet character." They're not very popular and kinda despised because it's next to inpossible to balance them properly. They almost always end up overpowered or too weak for anyone to bother with competitively. This actually highlights a major problem with FGs in that the genre thrives off of competition and no one tries new ideas because every game designer is afraid that they're accidentally gonna ruin the meta and end up with a series of mirrors in top 8 in some tournament. Not as big of a problem nowadays as it used to be before thanks to online updates, but the mentality is still there because it's the same people who developed when balance change updates weren't an industry standard practice.

>>717577958
>all fighting games
It's really just SF and MK that are fugly. Tekken has a sameface and samebody issue, but I think everyone looks fine. Every other fighter I can think of has characters that look good.
That's still really weird thought that the two most popular fighters are the ones that have the ugliest motherfuckers in them, you'd think all that money would leave everyone looking nice.

>>717573617
Not as much of an issue for 3d fighters. There are still sane voices in the room when those are being made.

>>717578080
I unironically prefer the characters to look differently even if they look ugly as a sin instead of having a Tekken sameface syndrome.

>>717573617
>wall of cope
tl;dr
you dont have a team carrying you which is why you think other games dont require time investment to get good as opposed to fgs where 'youre forced' to lab
simple as

>>717577416
>Fantasy Strike bombed incredibly hard.
Do you think Fantasy Strike would have sold well if it didn't have simple inputs? You look at those graphics and say it with a straight face.

God I am so sick of /v/ arguments along the lines of
>"Game X had Y gimmick/businessmodel"
>"Game X flopped"
>"Ergo, Y causes games to flop"
So dumb

>>717578080
SF6 is a weird case, but NRS have never been good with faces so I'm not shocked that their games are consistently ugly as hell. Only characters that look good are the facescanned celebrities and anyone masked.

>>717571103 (OP)
No, it's a niche genre and nothing will change that. Still the most popular it has been in the past decade.
>>717571237
If it's SF then it's slightly more players on console.
If it's Tekken then it's equal.
If it's MK then the vast majority are on console.
If it's anime then the majority of westerners are on PC while the Japanese are all on console.

Fighting games are the best online genre.
Its just that people are not good enough for it.
They can't blame their teammates, and fail to analyze their own choices or game play.
It's not the games' fault. Its these fucking useless gamers.

>>717577958
capcom peaked the genre with sprites, these games never supposed to be 3d and the one 3d fighter that was pretty died due to shitty optimization.

>>717571103 (OP)
No, most rely on discord server

>>717578162
It's doubly so the issue for 3D fighters. The move lists in 3D fighters are much bigger than in 2D fighters, which means more frame data and counterplay to study. The only 3D fighter where range and spacing really matter is SoulCalibur. The gameplay in others is little more than a series of very direct reaction and knowledge checks and guesses (it's also that in SoulCalibur, to a lesser extent). It's a large part of the reason why 3D fighters in particular are dying while 2D fighters still get a decent number of new releases each year.

>>717578080
Reminder that MK1 is still a huge improvement over what NRS girls used to look like.
The girls in MK9 were ugly as well, don't be fooled by the big tits.

>>717578080
NRS' faces look really weird but their costume designs are still often quite good.

That said, I'll still take what we have now, spazzy faces included, over the garbage from the DA-Deception-Armageddon era.

Fighting games were a mid 2000s fad that lasted way longer than it should.
It's dying now and I say good riddance. Fighting games are the most casual ""hardcore"" genre out there.

Go play Bloodbourne.

>>717578776
>Fighting games were a mid 2000s fad that lasted way longer than it should.
You are so fucking retarded lmao

>>717578776
>Fighting games are the most casual ""hardcore"" genre out there.
>Go play Bloodbourne.
lol the irony

>>717578776
I want to say this is bait, but there are a disturbing amount of people who think that they're hardcore gamers because they beat a FromSoft game.

>>717578863
Fighting games were dead until SF4 unfortunately revived it and the current games have been riding that revival since.
>>717578936
Post Elden Ring trophies.

>>717571103 (OP)
These numbers are actually pretty good for fighting games.

>>717579071
Cope

Fighting games are like MOBAs or Counter Strike: autism simulators enjoyed by a bunch of sensitive Nancy niggerfaggots who can't comprehend why anyone wouldn't want to play the garbage.

>>717579014
Sorry, I don't play Fromslop.

>>717578986
Learning sixty 400 input combos makes you hardcore gamer?

>>717579080
What cope? They're genuinely better than what they were during SFV and Tekken 7 era.

>>717576124
/v/ is the poser board

>>717571103 (OP)
Where's Smash at?

>>717576130
This. Do you know how many better games Bandai Namco and Capcom could be making with the money they use to shit out Tekken and Street Fighters every year?

>>717579280
>the money they use to shit out Tekken and Street Fighters every year?
SFV to SF6 took 7 years; Tekken 7 to Tekken 8 took 9 years.

anons itt aren't even trying anymore

>>717579219
at a rocky 110 player 24h peak

>>717579280
>fighting games are le dead
>bu-but theres new ones every year
lol, make up your minds you niggers.

What sucks worse about fighting games is that they waste such cool characters on the genre.

>>717579497
Scarp the FG genre, use the IPs to make a bunch of great beat em ups.

Only thing as bad as the retards who want the genre to be something else entirely are the retards saying online in the games is some evil that negatively affected them or can never be fun. Hopping online, getting some quick matches, learning, trying shit and enjoying myself against a bunch of random different people like in my fps games rules.

>>717577603
>>717577932
Every Tekken and SF is a broken mess compared to t8 and sf6. They might look nostalgic or have better soundtracks but they are not very fun to play. How quickly people forget all the bullshit from t7 like paid frame data or launch Leroy, and of course what a piece of crap sf5 was for most of it's existence (even later it was a mediocre game). Maybe only T5DR and Alpha 2/3 still hold up because they have less bullshit than later games, but of course they have their own issues. I don't know much about SF4 except that it's ugly.

Nostalgia brainrot is so tiring.

>>717579497
lmao
>>717574167

>>717579331
You're ignoring the DLCs for SFV and Tekken 7.
Not to mention that 7 and 9 years that would be been better served elsewhere.
Most people would have preferred a new Dino Crisis or DMC6 over SF6
Most people would have preferred a new Summon Night or Baten Kaitos over Tekken 8.

>>717574167
why dont they just play SF6 world tour mode then get on battle hub for avatar matches and playing with players at same skill level?
I think the issue with the faggots on here is also that in their mentally ill minds either you begin the game at ultimate masters/legend MMR levels or theres no point in touching “le dead genre”.

>>717580180
>Most people would have preferred a new Dino Crisis
>Most people would have preferred a new Summon Night or Baten Kaitos
Lol get real man most people aren't even thinking about those series.
Also do you think by working on fighting games they are just not developing other shit? Or that the people responsible for those games are not completely different teams than the ones responsible for sf6 and Tekken.

>>717571103 (OP)
>add ryona
>add forced exposure
Nintendo should hire me

>>717580429
One of the oldest excuses in the ol' /v/ playbook for not playing fighting games is the classic
>buh-buh-but I'm gonna get wrecked by 9000 hour johnny the second my foot gets in the door
even though ranked exists so that newfags will always get paired with newfags. The only way you're getting fucked by by those mean bully sweats is if you go looking for them.

>>717581617
>even though ranked exists so that newfags will always get paired with newfags.
That is not true in most fighting games because there simply aren't enough people playing.

>>717579117
We comprehend quite well, actually. We also see that fighting games gatekeeps the board that cries for it.

>>717571103 (OP)
sure, as soon as they make a fun one

>>717571441
>filtered
If you have an IQ above 100, you can beat the no lifes and sweat lords after a few dozen hours of play time. Odds are you're just too dumb to grasp the mechanics.

>>717578402
Based. By far the most competitive genre in vidya but you have to have a fully functioning brain to not get BTFO. Quite a high bar of entry for most /v/tards which is why they're all playing battleslop 6 this weekend.

>>717571103 (OP)
>>717571237
>>717575970
>>717578312

Of course not, they already got replaced by Chess in ESWC, IEM will never have fighting games in their circuit.

Not only they are dying they are repudiated by actual E-sports events so they end up creating their own clowfiesta events like the pro tours. It's over they shot themselves in the foot by catering to braindead trannies and niggers

Sad what happens when you casualize the games, bring the pretzel and complex motions mback, remove shortcuts, remove macros, make fighting games great again, or don't , eat shit Chess is KING

>>717578402
>>717582880
What age are you living on retarded mentally ill tranny, the genre was killed, it's no longer competitive.

>>717571103 (OP)
Fighting games are so awesome, bros. Their history, art, music, gameplay and community is unlike anything else in vidya.
I pity the dumb nigger unable to enjoy this genre due to uncontrollable salt levels.

>>717583437
>I pity the dumb nigger unable to enjoy this genre due to uncontrollable salt levels.
that's the main demographic no? The reason why Sf6 and kekken 8 are basically coinflip games

>>717571103 (OP)
>T8 still has that many players

Astounding honestly, it gets ripped to SHREDS every time I ever see it mentioned and I know everyone I talk to has legitimately dropped it (unlike T7 where they just bitched about it but still played).

>>717583329
How are fighting games dead?

>>717583437
You cunts aren't gonna trick me into playing fightan games again.

>>717583535
Tekken 8 and SF6 could both be boxes that do nothing but infect you Hepatitis C and you'd still at least have 4k players at all times.

>>717583616
>trick

>>717583515
well they are still fun. You faggots on here never mention what is this Aryan master race game that you secretly play, so I’ll continue playing what I know is fun.
besides if its all niggers why do you care if its dead? its a good thing right? no need to continue seething about it and shidding your panties on a daily. just forget about it bro, let it rot away and be forgotten forever.
just two moar weeks.

>>717583691
>trick

Yes trick. cunt.

>>717583580
Why are you pretending to be stupid?

>>717578272
Fighting games are not the only online games without teams.
And even if they were, it's not an argument, it would simply mean that other multiplayer games still surpass fighting games as an overall experience.

>>717571103 (OP)
No.
The amount of fun you have hinges entirely on your skill level and the skill level of your opponent being within a tolerable range of eachother.
>Two retards mashing at eachother are having fun
>Two very skilled players nearly at the top of their region are having fun
>Mashing retard vs skilled player or skilled player vs VERY skilled player, no one is having fun because one is whacking an excessively mobile training dummy and the other is getting his dick flattened over and over.

Unfortunately, the last one is 80% of the pub matches that occur so the only people left playing the game are truly patient individuals that can handle getting their face beat constantly until they improve and egotistical faggots who get off to doing the video game equivalent of clubbing seals.

>>717583798
I can still play Xrd and find players at my skill level

>>717583329
Fighting games have been slowly gaining popularity ever since rollback net code started becoming more common. They're not dead at all, dumb fuck. They're like a decade behind other online genres because they needed the tech to be able to handle the split second actions over an internet connection that other retard tier games don't require. That tech is now a thing (rollback), so they can actually be played online and the popularity is slowly growing because of it.

>>717583921
>Unfortunately, the last one is 80% of the pub matches that occur
That's false because of ranked and Arcsys square colors

Challenging someone in a fighting game is challenging their personality and way of thinking. Few genres offer such an experience

>>717583921
lmao cry more faggot!

>>717583945
well i ain't touching shitrd or soive, and i can't find XX games despite them soiback netcode. So i rather play actual competitive games that are not dead.

If 2XKO doesn't save the fgc the genre might as well be dead. Also no you don't, why you lying.

>>717584063
+R is dead? Last time I played it I could easily find matches

>>717584127
All fighting games are dead

>>717584063
>2kxko
literally no one cares about that game, Chang.

>>717583921
>the last one is 80% of the pub matches that occur
Lol yeah this is full blown retard bullshit. Every modern fighting vidya has ranked now where this doesn't happen unless you go out of your way to find players way above your skill level.

>>717584192
>51 players.
That's more than enough. You'll live.

>>717583963
>They're like a decade behind other online genres because they needed the tech to be able to handle the split second actions over an internet connection that other retard tier games don't require
It is literally just 100% the fault of the Japanese being lazy and dumb. The worst a jap gaming dev has to worry about is the distance between Tokyo and Nagasaki. They never think about the westerners playing their game so they're not concerned that an "EU" server is going to have some impoverished slav in Moscow trying to fight an Englishman in London. Or NA is going to have some fucking monkey in Brazil trying to fight an American on the upper east coast.
No amount of rollback can fix that shit. If they actually put any thought or effort into making the game playable by non-slants they would definitely see more success.

>>717584192
>51 players
let me guess..you need more?

>>717584332
>no amount of rollback can fix that
Rollback has already fixed that

>>717578549
>The move lists in 3D fighters are much bigger than in 2D fighters, which means more frame data and counterplay to study.
Or you could just get used to seeing the low spin kicks and predicting enemy attacks.
You don't need to study the technical aspects of every move, just the occasional deceptive attack.
>>717578272
>this post
Oh, he was spot-on there. Just another MOBAbab.

>>717584475
5+ frames of rollback is like playing topsy turvy land

>>717584063
>If 2XKO doesn't save the fgc
I know this is shitpost bait post, but goddamn, what a tragic fate for 2XKO. I'm not saying I feel bad for the devs because they really brought this shit on themselves, but that's still insane that you could spend so long basically being the only somewhat notable tag game being developed, then when you finally get close to that release date after a fuckton of delays and redos here comes a bunch of tag fighters that not only steal you thunder, but make you look like a shit product for broke niggas only.

lol but also dang that sucks

>>717584557
If you have that much roll back, then your internet must be the equivalent of Dixie cups with strings taped to the bottom. The fix for that is getting a job and paying for internet that isn't complete shit.

>>717583437
True. I tried playing shooters again after getting deep into fighting games and it's hilariously boring and soulless. The only problem with fightans is that they take too much of my attention away from normal single player games. Sometimes it's very tempting to pop up Tekken or Fightcade and get an instead doze of fun.

>>717584736
My internet is fine. I am paying for the best service before you get into the commercial-grade shit.
The problem is my game is F2P and I am forced to play against browns because there is no SA server and they all flood on to NA. 100 ping in GBVS could mean I'm fighting a guy two states away with 2 frames or some rapebaby descendant south of Texas that rubberbands between 5 and 7 frames

>try to get the new sf pass
> PayPal is currently unavailable in your country.

huh? am i finally free now?

I don't play online and buy the games on sale for the arcade mode. Fighting games are pretty ||fun|| when you don't care to compete and play them like video games instead of gym memberships. Only time i interact with the fgc is when I lurk in the gbfv thread and look at the art.

>>717585946
>playing online
>compete

>>717586201
nta but if you play online you are competing against another human. You don't compete against an AI when playing offline, you just learn how to exploit them.

>>717586290
There is no competition. You are just playing the game with random players. There is nothing to be scared about

>>717571103 (OP)
>Can fighting games be saved?
Should fighting games be saved?

>>717586482
A contest with another person is literally a competition anon, it doesn't matter if there's absolutely zero stakes involved, you're still competing to win.

>>717573004
>>717572283
nigger tourists like you should get a rope

remedial genre for rogs

>>717584929
>takes too much attention from single player games
for a good while I felt this too but now I realized that taking breaks from FGs actually makes me improve and I also learned that playing it too much in the day can burn me out fast. Im playing my best for about 10 matches, after that its good to take a break and play something else that isnt FGs or as mentally demanding. plus, not like I ever intend on playing pro.
like right now Im playing MH stories 2. fun game.

WHY THE FUCK IS STRIVE STILL THAT POPULAR?
FUUUUUUUUCK

>>717586674
do you lose in single player games

>>717589546
perhaps normal people dont want to spend 999 hours in training room practicing their frcerinos and dont want every character to be gimmicky aids in liquid form to fight against

>>717589706
This is why I love Xrd

>>717589706
as long as you’re playing a fg then continue on bro. cant expect everything to please everyone.
just because someone likes forza dont mean they will like gran turismo. or just because they like call of duty they will like counter strike.
ya get me dwag.
SF6 is way more popular than strive dough so I dunno who these “normal people” you speak of are lmao.

>>717584192
Who play those games on PC?

>>717575495
name 3 fighting games you've played

>>717571103 (OP)
Just make it so you're doing the tutorials against real players.
Newbie queue, against other newbies and both players are given quests on game mechanics and executing them while in an actual match.
Give rewards and silly cosmetics/titles for each quest you complete for the first time.
Always make it accessible but put a ranked cap on it that's exactly 1 below the minimum floor before you start losing ranked points.

You have now solved the new player problem

>>717590381
All the western players?

>>717571103 (OP)
Nope, Soive killed them.

>>717573851
>People have the same good idea
>Must be a single faggot
Good to know the idea lives rent free in your head.
I hope it intrudes into your thoughts everytime you remember why fightan is dead.

>>717590470
That's a dogshit idea. New players already have a trouble paying attention to the match so making them also do tutorials and challenges at the same time will just make them overloaded with information.

>>717589706
That makes no sense. Strive still has disgusting oki, a bevy of system mechanics, gimmick fags like Anji, Asuka, HC, etc, high-low mixups and no simple control input. Strive is perhaps one of the least casual friendly FGs released in the last 5 years.

>>717591048
>Strive is perhaps one of the least casual friendly FGs released in the last 5 years.
This is not a good thing

soive is the least casual friendly because it's full of trannies and dogshit gameplay

>>717591048
>get knocked down by Sol
>have to block a low or a mid
this game's too tough for me...

>>717591325
>gets thrown instead

>>717591196
Opinions aside, that was why I said his post made no sense. Strive is the antithesis of a casual game these days, but it still has a sizeable player base. Some people might say "Oh, the damage makes it casual friendly", but I disagree. Losing 30% - 50% HP from guessing wrong on a mixup is casual repellant.
>>717591325
Everyone has a universal overhead. Sol also has a command grab. What a sad attempt.

>>717591476
certified conditioned bitch moment

>>717591514
huh, i wonder what that orange glow is for

>>717591514
>Losing 30% - 50% HP from guessing wrong on a mixup is casual repellant.
Losing 50 HP on a baby "combo" from a random hit IS casual tranny garbage. All modern games are like that

>>717571103 (OP)
>Saved
Are you seriously acting like 16,000 concurrent players for a 2+ year old fighting game is bad? Like why do you make these shit bait threads daily?

probably not as long as this continues to be a thing

>>717591587
It's dead jim

"Damn.. I wish I was a Chun Li main.. I should make all my profile pictures her, and fill my bio with 'aspiring Chunner main'.."
>tranny coded

>>717591642
Sims 4 is my favorite fighting game

>>717591550
And yet people still get hit by it, crazy.

you answered your own question, "fighting games" is a genre based on sf2. if you deviate too from it will not be a fighting game anymore.
this is like asking if contra can be saved when it's just outdated.

>>717591587
where do you think you are anon? no one here actually hates FGs or Fromsoft games or Capcom games. its all just a jest, just a shittposting way to get anons to come together and gush over our favorite games and call each other niggers and faggots.
except gatcha and pedo threads, those are made by actually mentally ill freaks and three letter agencies seeking to groom the young and mentally/spiritually weak.
lighten up nigger.

>>717591637
There are other fighting games outside of Tekken

>>717573617
>In FPS run around and click on enemies
>In MOBAs click on enemies in your lane and blow up the base
And in Fighting games punch and kick on enemy until his bar depletes to zero. See easy.

>>717571103 (OP)
it's a niche genre for autists the fuck do you expect? retard

>>717590102
>Xrd
casualslop unlike +R

I think fighting games are fun

>>717592397
I don't care because Xrd is FUN

>>717571103 (OP)
Yeah we just gotta hype up the next one and then keep playing sf6 when it releases

>>717592663
>lying on the floor when your opponent does meaty fireball at you simulator
>fun

>>717592834
Your fault for getting hit. Now hold this.

>>717571103 (OP)
It's a niche genre for competitive autists, 1000+ bodies is good for 1v1 games.
The only thing that really needs to be done is either adding enough single player content to shut casuals up and actually be worth the bullshit full dollar price they're gonna charge, or accept that fighters need to have a lower price point because 99% of the point is fighting other people.

>be huge For Honor fag
>find out Samsho has Warden as a crossover character
>play and have fun
>by the time I start playing everyone else stopped
I think the thing that hurts the most is that both games have a similar design philosophy of fighting that I like.

>>717593718
samsho is proof that maybe 50% of the people complaining about combos are full of shit. Game could be filled up overnight, but they'd have next to nothing to bitch about then.

>>717593817
I like combos. Sol has the ideal combo length in Strive and Xrd.

>>717592505
I'm gonna get back into Strive once they release that Ranked Mode update, how are
>Anji
>Potemkin
>A.B.A
>Testicles
doing? That's the rotation I was using but I haven't played the game in about a year, so that's where my brain still is when thinking about the state of the roster. I remember Testament being complete dogshit the last time I played and Sin went from shit tier to god tier.

>>717594052
Potemkin is high tier now

>want to play strive
>nice, let's see which hitbox layout people use so I can use it aswell
>everyone uses a different one
What the fuck is this shit bros

>>717593918
I like kof combo structure more. Normal>command>special move with a couple optional meter pumps are all I really need. granblue would be perfect too, but it's just teetering on the edge of needing some kind of burst to me

>>717592259
Except this action uses six different buttons, which already complicates things, as opposed to a single attacking action in other games.

>>717592505
How come every other 2D fighting games dev can't even make their games look half as good visually as ArcSystem?

>>717594727
Except there are actually also a lot of buttons in a FPS and MOBA for this action in addition to the map where you are moving being bigger and not as straight forward as a fighting game stage.

>>717594216
No shit? Nice, my boy has never been high tier before.
There's no way that's going to last, people fucking despise it when grapplers are high tier.

>explains why fighters are dying
>lmao that's just you retard, git gut sub 100 iq shitter
Oh yeah that's another reason, the FGC are insufferable fat lifeless mouthbreathers

>>717594052
>Anji
Got nerfed a little (no combo on Rin even with RC) but still high tier
Obnoxious neutral, good mix/reset, decent buttons
>Potemkin
Got his karas removed, got turbo-buffed in exchange, got his karas back a month after because everyone bitched about it
Slidehead is +10 on block, Flick works on a stupid amount of things including Asuka's 2D and Happy Chaos' gunshots, making him a better zoner than most zoners
Also got Blue Wild Assault, meaning he can force a mix from 5H as long as he has 50% Burst
He's like top 5 right now and he's 100% getting gutted in the next patch, but he was reasonable in Season 3
>A.B.A
Weird, kinda sucks in normal mode, can't do anything against zoning, can't get in, has alright blockstrings
In jealous rage, she's Chipp with a 50 Tension fullscreen neutral skip (+49 on block), obnoxious, unfuzziable mix and absurd pressure
>Testicles
Either underrated as fuck or I have sunk cost fallacy
Good screen presence, every safejump is a high/low mix, 2K>2D>Grave Reaper>Teleport is an invisible left/right if it hits correctly, Stain converts on throws now
Also has a bunch of tech that nobody uses, like an ambiguous left/right crossup with jK if you pickup a juggle off 236H into 2S>2H>Teleport, or burst baiting with 2H after Nostrovia

However consider that some of them might change, they've said next patch is going to decrease how much characters have to rely on Wild Assault, which probably means some rework on certain specials

As long as the troon infestation in the community continues? No

>>717571103 (OP)
Not as long as the FGC is a thing.

>>71759491
>Except there are actually also a lot of buttons in a FPS and MOBA for this action
No. There's always one main attack button, even alt fire is a rarity. There are also skills sometimes, like in mobas for example, but they're like specials in FGs. It's never as complex as it is in fighting games.
>the map where you are moving being bigger and not as straight forward as a fighting game stage
Yes, but unlike the frame fuckery in FGs, stuff like positioning and precise shooting is intuitive and self-explanatory. When some sniper styles on you from the other side of the map, even if it makes you seethe, you understand how it happened, and how exactly you sucked. Compare that to some sweat in kekken juggling your ass for 80% of your HP because frames, and you'll understand why people keep playing one and drop the other.

>>717595160
They are, and thanks to the esports and troon brigade, they've become even more of an insufferable circlejerk, but most people trying to "save" a genre they only interact with through their penis are also crying scrubs.

>>717595416
>>717594913

>>717571103 (OP)
>Can fighting games be saved?
Virtua Fighter 6 is under development, so yeah.

>>717586753
Dead genre filled with niggers and troons, I shit in your mouth

>>717571103 (OP)
City of the Wolves bros, our rebuttal?

>>717571103 (OP)
This genre is post is some of the gayest shit on the planet. Start a thread asking if this genre can be saved and then some nigger retard that hasn’t played a fighter game in 25 years starts screaming about no tutorials and getting stomped by Evo pros online. No one here actually cares about this genre these threads are for being mad because bad.

>>717594736
ArcSystem knows presentation is a big fucking deal for fighting games, MvCI being bad on all fronts shows what happens when presentation goes out the window. Also fuck Disney for pushing there Marvel movie shit into the game.

>>717595160
The modern "fgc" is a big reason why the genre will never take off. Autistic gays, troons, furries and other freaks ruin everything.

>hit slime shart
>confirm
>UH OH UH CHIMICHANGA AY DIOS MIO UH AH UH OH WE GOT DOZ COMBOS (combos are dead btw)
> THATS 70% WELCOME TO USA UH UHOH

Shan't Modern fighting games are embarrassing

>>717574115
>It's even worse for samsho
How did SNK manage such a colossal fail ?

>>717595239
This game is so fucking ass.

>>717571103 (OP)
Strive and uni2 are the most fun recent fgs. Too bad one is dead and other is played exclusively by ‘them’

>>717572283
That’s because the core experience of a fighting game is typically 1 v 1 or at the bare minimum 3 v 3. Tokon is obviously changing that with 4 v 4 but something tells me people like you want something that isn’t really a fighting game. Saying the genre needs a “shake up” is the type of vague faggotry that doesn’t actually say anything of note. It’s the equivalent of asking a random person how their day was.

>>717595876
Bad marketing and those titles were already niche

>>717595416
>Yes, but unlike the frame fuckery in FGs, stuff like positioning and precise shooting is intuitive and self-explanatory
How is that any different from swinging your slow, heavy normal attack from far away and getting clipped for half your health because you missed it?
Or being dumb enough to throw your long startup fireball in their face and getting punched in the nose for it? That's not frame data, that's just feeling the game out

>>717595929
Much like MMOs got raped by Survival games, fightans need to be raped by something.

>>717595239
>Anji
I'm just glad that ver. 1 Anji is a distant memory, it was just him and Pot for me at the start and I really had to squeeze to get some juice out of my main guy.
>Pot
lmao yeah that's not going to stick at all, hope he doesn't get bludgeoned with the nerf bat too hard
>A.B.A
Ah, that's just her working as intended. Even in XX she's a F-tier character that can turn into an S-tier for like 10 seconds at a time. Still surprised at how well preserved she is in Strive, I thought for sure she was going to get a complete overhaul.
>Testament
Hopefully its the former, really enjoyed Testament for a while then he got nerfed to shit which was part of the reason I just stopped playing for a while.

Kinda tempted to see how fucked Pot is right now, but since he's probably getting gutted like you said I'll just wait for the patch and then roll from there. Thanks anon.

>>717595978
It isn't fundamentally. But fighting games have a lot more going on. FPS games are just "click on head" games at the end of the day. Understanding the wakeup game alone is a lot more autistic and crucial to playing the game at a minimum level

CotW needs a combo trainer. HOW THE FUCK AM I SO INEPT WITH A GODDAMN SHOTO?

>>717596303
Just do your meaty bro

>>717596303
minimum level is going to be the two situations I described. Statistically, most people aren't going to bother with oki or frame traps, and in all honesty shut down mentally and start flailing the second their main combo starter doesn't hit like in training mode.

>>717592505
hey stoooopid when she does the projectile (not the laser) it always has a huge gap and you can just jump and punish. Projectile>laser is even more fake
STOOOOOOOOOOOPID

>>717573004
Epic literally tried this and the game shut down. We already have stuff like Naraka Blade Point and no one talks about that game despite it still being around and running after all these years. No one talks about For Honor either. You can play Dark Souls PVP my nigga.

>>717594575
just use what you like? are you retarded?

>>717573004
World Tour mode

>>717595908
i really don't get this kind of complaint

Does anyone have footage of the xrd jam data in strive from the leak?

>>717595483
>>717595416
then why are arena fps and RTS dead as well? I mean according to you all of them have a simple control scheme right (eventho stuff like Tekken uses just 4 buttons)? Why are they dead anon, do you think they have something in common with fighting games which CS and MOBAs don't have? Might that call you out on your disingenous horse shit about "the action button on other genres is more intuitive? I swear on every new discussion people come up with an even dumber excuse on why fighters aren't as popular and then revert to muh frames out of nowhere.

>>717571103 (OP)
They're saved SF6 is a great game.

>>717573617
I mean you literally don’t have to learn all that shit at one time. SF6 has a ranked mode that is filled with low level shitters trying to figure their shit out.

>>717596619
I guarantee you 90% of the active playerbase of most fighting games understand oki.

>>717597031
I played the earliest version of the GGST leaked build and it had all the Xrd characters (including Jam) and they played exactly the same as they did in Xrd but with few effects missing.

>>717594727
then just use one of the six buttons?

>>717597393
Their understanding is mashing crouch jab and sometimes throwing. I've been in the mud in most games, it's almost always just jabbing with their taint in your face, throwing on wakeup, or standing there until you start climbing to gold ranks or pink squares, or whatever the fuck the game does. Then you start seeing crossups at least.

What would it take for Tekken to recover at this point?

>>717571103 (OP)
Yes, but you need to solve the inherent problems. First problem is the FGC itself, especially the content creators, who live off the hype and that hype is often fake as fuck.
Then there is the netcode bullshit talked ad nausea. Look you fags, there is just no way you will be able to play a game that relies on frame perfect inputs with someone from another country. And no fucking rollback, algorithm predicted bullshit is gonna change that. People learned about lag back in the 90's when playing Quake on 56K modems and guess what, with all the network interpolation, fiber optic cables and NASA PCs we have today, if an FPS games allows you to choose a server, you sort by ping, and choose the one with the least. Meanwhile FGs are still stuck in babyland, showing arbitrary bars. The games spawned as something meant to be played locally. Focus on local player run lobbies and forget netcode magic that will somehow allow Japan to play against Brazil - ain't gonna happen ever.
Also, anyone who has experienced actual rollback happening, do you really consider this time travel bullshit good?
Lastly, getting casuals into the games. Making easy controls and button mashing mechanics isn't going to work. People who use those crutches are going to drop the game anyway in a month after release. What it actually does, is cause noobs who want to learn the legit controls method drop the game quicker, because they will be murdered in noob ranks, by people doing one-button combos, while they are trying to just land what they practiced for hour in training mode. The solution would actually be to have short and intuitive combos you can figure out on your own (3-4 hits), but that doesn't build hype on youtube now, does it?

>>717596514
tbf he is a SF shoto in a SNK game. Not sure which franchise you're more familiar with, but trying to mesh together mechanics from both franchises is going to cause some confusion, even with a shoto.
I've been playing CotW since launch and I still keep forgetting sometimes that Ken can cancel EX moves into supers, so I'll do an EX Shoryuken and then just sit there like a dope because I'm expecting a bounce or some shit to do the super off of.

>>717581891
If you play SF6/T8/MK1 and presumably GG:S you shouldn’t be running into no life sweats that folded paper 1000 times. So either you’re fucking dumb fuck that wants to play a discord fighter which is a personal problem or you’re just a pussy to scared to hop online.

>>717598158
some boomer tekken 1-6 collection to burst bubbles of tekken babbies that old tekens were skillfull and not just another party mashers like 8

>>717584929
>I tried playing shooters again after getting deep into fighting games and it's hilariously boring and soulless.
post your global elite rank in counter strike 2 RIGHT NOW

>>717583921
>I'm a retard that doesn't play ranked!
Could have started with that so I could have ignored this useless post that even a rotting corpse could put more thought into.

>>717595978
Throwing a long start up fireball, whiffing, and being punished is far more difficult to understand during play than missing a shot and getting capped in the face for it. Is it really not obvious? You need frame data to explain why this shit happens, while in other games it's just "you missed the fucking shot, what do you expect?". Shit like footsies is inherently more complicated, and not in a good way for most people.
>>717597050
>arena fps
There were only two mainstream arena shooters - Quake 3 Arena and Unreal Tournament. Quake as a franchise fizzled out, 4 being a disappointment and Quake Wars being a sad Battlefield clone. Meanwhile, games like CoD and TF2 took over. Unreal Tournament was the same - Epic tried to reboot the franchise, but it was cancelled after they accidentally stumbled upon Fortnite.
>RTS
MOBAs replaced them. RTS was always a niche PC genre; the only two games with scenes worth a damn were Starcraft (stagnant and dominated by Koreans to the point where no one wanted to play professionally anymore) and Warcraft 3 (replaced first with its own mod, DoTA, and subsequently League of Legends). Everything else was never all that popular, so the suits declared the genre dead because the late 2000s - early 2010s were defined by CoD dudebros playing on their consoles, and people were calling PC gaming as a whole dead in the same breath.
>>717597376
The dream was always for a fightan to gain a large casual audience so they could play each other and develop organically, but too much knowledge in this genre is inherited, so there's always that insane wall of sweat that every noob runs into, and the difference in skill is so bizarre to an average player that they get scared off. Again, simply because the mechanics are far less obvious than in other multiplayer games. Devs try to fix it by introducing new control schemes and better tutorials, but that doesn't address the underlying issue.

>>717584192
>GG
deserved to be completely honest. Bad game also with a community of faggots and troons.

>>717571103 (OP)
It all echoes, Fighting games aren't doing well now because you didn't buy War Gods and Mace the Dark Age back then.

Japan can't make online multiplayer games and everyone else can't make fighting games, never mind it becoming more questionable if they can still do the other part either, so no.

If a game at SF6's level of development competency was released in a genre with actual competition it would have EoS'd already (see: Exoprimal)

>>717596708
>when she does the projectile (not the laser) it always has a huge gap
Yeah I falsely thought it was only jumpable at range but even point blank with IB you can jump it out, I went to the lab to check it
Also thought 5H~2H caught the pre-jump frames but nope

That said it's that simple, if she does 5H>214S it'll catch jumping out, and if you try to react to 5H~5H she can still do Greed Sever against a late jump
If she does 5H~2H>Laser, she'll make you air block and now you're back against her +10 point blank situation

~5H>Laser is gapless, idk where you got that one from
~5S>Laser can be interrupted, but it's like an 11f gap and she can still frametrap, so either you have good reactions or you do like a fuzzy 5K/2K, which might not always reach

Either way this character's fucking gay, I wanted a Holy Order Sol function, not a simplified version of Sin for babies that can't manage an extra bar

>>717598813
>There were only two mainstream arena shooters - Quake 3 Arena and Unreal Tournament. Quake as a franchise fizzled out, 4 being a disappointment and Quake Wars being a sad Battlefield clone. Meanwhile, games like CoD and TF2 took over. Unreal Tournament was the same - Epic tried to reboot the franchise, but it was cancelled after they accidentally stumbled upon Fortnite.
Ahhm ok? I never asked why they are less popular than CoD. Why does Quake have less players than SF6 tho? It has a more intuitive control schemes while in Street Fighter you have to press as many buttons as an SNES controller which is really really hard. I mean that is the reason those stinky fighters are unpopular in the first place right?
>MOBAs replaced them. RTS was always a niche PC genre; the only two games with scenes worth a damn were Starcraft (stagnant and dominated by Koreans to the point where no one wanted to play professionally anymore) and Warcraft 3 (replaced first with its own mod, DoTA, and subsequently League of Legends). Everything else was never all that popular, so the suits declared the genre dead because the late 2000s - early 2010s were defined by CoD dudebros playing on their consoles, and people were calling PC gaming as a whole dead in the same breath.
again I don't need an Wikipediaesque explanation why they are dead, eventho claiming they were niche is the most dumbest shit ever. They have a really intuitive controll schemes (press button = action comes out, totally different from fighting games) so why is it not in the Zeitgeist.
It's almost like RTS, Arena FPS and Fighting games have something really important in common, like not being team based games or something.

>>717598813
>Is it really not obvious?
I should be asking you that, who the fuck can't intuit the first time they see their character waving their arms around before throwing a fireball being too slow to use in face-punching range? Frame data is for shit like timing your attack right as your opponent gets off the floor so its safe, or stupidly frame perfect interactions, which you do not need to learn out the gate.
Blocking, and learning to not use slow moves in front of someone or short moves when someone has the reach advantage is stuff you even learn in any game with combat.

>>717597050
>arena fps
strafe jump and resource management are the greatest barriers for the casual player
>RTS
pure mechanical skill

Im not involved in any argument, but if you guys spent as much time playing fighting games as you did writing paragraphs about them you'd be pretty good at them

>>717600276
It's a rhetorical question to the claim to the other anon.

>strive
>2xko
>tokon
how am i supposed to manage all three games at high level?

>>717600891
You don't. Just pick one of them as your main FG and play the rest on the side

>>717600313
>but if you guys spent as much time playing fighting games as you did writing paragraphs about them you'd be pretty good at them
meh quake veterans spend much more time talking about arena shooters than playing them
nobody in 4chan can beat a quake veteran

>>717600035
Modern games are more frame data heavy because they have adopted the 3D fighter methodology of decoupling hit and block frame data so now any move can be plus enough to link after on hit and unsafe on block so you have to just memorize it. You ask someone frame data in ST and nobody knows because unless it knocks down or is some insane kuso move you never want to use it's going to be plus enough to make a block string with or push back out of range. SFV and VI are pretty much nothing but 1-2 frame tolerance interactions where you try to punish with the wrong medium button because you didn't react to the right voice cue and fucking die.

>>717599995
>Why does Quake have less players than SF6 tho
Because it's ancient at this point, and long forgotten. Be reasonable.
>again I don't need an Wikipediaesque explanation why they are dead
You literally asked why they are dead.
>It's almost like RTS, Arena FPS and Fighting games have something really important in common, like not being team based games or something.
Fortnite is not a team-based game either, the vast majority plays solo.
>>717600035
>who the fuck can't intuit the first time they see their character waving their arms around before throwing a fireball being too slow to use in face-punching range
You'd be surprised. Most people don't understand that their characters have these plus and minus frames. No other games operate on such logic, you don't count how many frames your reload takes in Overwatch.

>>717601990
Frames are just time.

>>717602129
Frames are fractions of a second, which makes them far more difficult to conceptualize than "uuh, just wait a sec or two" like in other games.

Which fighting games let's me draw 2 cards from my deck

>>717602285
lol

lmao

What's different about fighting games is concrete hit and block stun being forced on you all the time not frames. Which is the real problem because see how much people enjoy taking hit stun in an FPS.

>>717571103 (OP)
>Strive still third
BASED BASED BASED

>>717601990
>and long forgotten.
fuck counter strike
fuck gaymers in general because they dont to play in even conditions

>>717602290
strive has a character that draws and stores up to four spells at a time from three different decks

>>717601990
>you don't count how many frames your reload takes in Overwatch
no, but people can still figure out you can't go out and shoot while reloading because that's all it takes for you to be caught with your thumb up your ass and killed. Walking out while reloading is a close enough equivalent to getting punished because someone punched or jumped over your slow fireball

>>717601904
That sounds like a worse problem than movesets being homogenized over time

>>717602629
it will probably rise to second with strive 2.0 and if tekken keeps shitting the bed. 2xko will not show numbers and tokon is far way

>>717598158
Might be a bit hard for Tekken 8, but Tekken 9 could still easily put the series back in good standing. The brand is still strong even if people are negative about 8 specifically.

>>717602290
Oscar Klutz

>>717602990
>no, but people can still figure out you can't go out and shoot while reloading because that's all it takes for you to be caught with your thumb up your ass and killed. Walking out while reloading is a close enough equivalent to getting punished because someone punched or jumped over your slow fireball
True, but frames are more difficult. When anyone says that "a frame is 1/60th of a second" to show off how impressive some of the FGC feats are, they repel noobs instantly. >Do you expect me to think in fractions of a second all the time? Fuck that shit, I'll just play Fortnite.
And it is indeed challenging as fuck. I watched new players do combo trials in Jive back in the day, frame windows in that game were generous, but it still was an insane struggle for everyone once they had to chain more than three moves. New mash-friendly control schemes help somewhat, but not by much. In the end, I don't think it's possible to solve this issue without completely changing the genre. Better to just admit that FGs will always be niche and support the already existing base instead of chasing a new one.

>>717571103 (OP)
>Can fighting games be saved?
yes
bamco needs to release Gundam Extreme Vs. 2 OverBoost on consoles and pc

>>717602629
>strive has 20x more players than cotw
SNK is cursed

>>717571103 (OP)
No, they should have died a long time ago and they've not been good for gaming in general. They should have developed the Final Fight and Double Dragon genre of fighting games into more than it was but instead, they pursued the one-on-one fighting genre that worked well on older hardware.
Now the technology is so advanced that these games are now just a relic of a simpler time.
E-sports were never going to be a thing in the West, they're only big in the East because they suck at real sports.

>>717571103 (OP)
Yes but only by the protagonists. Capcom, SEGA and Nintendo built the framework that every other game sits on and have proven they are the only companies capable of a fundamental reorganisation of fighting game principles. It doesnt move until they decide to move it and when they move everyone else will follow.

>>717605486
speaking like someone who can't handle 1v1 games

>>717606941
Go play a real 1v1 game then and not a fifty fifty nigger game.

>>717607116
filtered

>>717595160
>someone on the internet typed mean words to me :((((((

>>717607149
Yeah I am not black. I instead play rts and racing game time trials when I wanna 1v1 like any white man does.

>>717607659
>rts
this genre is dying just like fighting games
age of empires 2 and starcraft 2 are old games

>>717608115
Oh no?

>>717608352
rts games are dying because they suck, just like fighting games

I'M ABOUT TO PRESS THE BUY BUTTON ON COTW
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>717607659
>too scared to fight another man
>plays time trials where he doesn't even have to run against live opponents
lmaoooo

>>717606941
I played SF2T on the SNES to oblivion when it came out and then I completely lost interest in the genre. Like I beat the game on 10 stars at top speed with every round perfect played to oblivion and beat everyone I ever played easily.
The genre never got better, they just added more shit and made the games more complicated.

>>717608723
In 1v1 RNG just makes you feel miserable.

>>717604849
Not cursed they're just fucking retarded and keep making the worst decisions possible unlike arcsys who made consecutive good decisions since like 2018 starting with making their games look very good visual wise.

>>717608551
Saudis are rich as fuck then don't need your 40 dollars

>>717571103 (OP)
>MK11 has more players than MK12
Is it really that bad? Lmfao

>>717609978
true, perhaps i should pirate it instead and only lab

>>717610505
There is also online crack for pirated copies but I didn't told you that

>>717609056
it's not rng. You know nothing lol

>>717591587
The fact that """Street Fighter""" 6 is the most popular fighting game in the market is precisely why the genre needs saving.

>>717579117
Lol The difference is that dota likes and cs are alive

>>717611260
that because they appeal to bitches who need the support of a team to face a challenge. It's utterly pathetic

>"Yeah I play fighting games"
>he's a Striver

>>717573617
You can't use "le frame perfect" excuse when strive exists, you can literally spam one attack over and over and btfo most shitters there

>>717611516
Lol you have no idea what you are talking about post your hours in cs or any dota likes from league to dota or deadlock would also do

>>717611598
>you can literally spam one attack over and over and btfo most shitters there
it's a good move

>>717571103 (OP)
Can you get good at a fighting game by JUST playing it?

Not doing a combo challenge, or watching guides, or practicing specific combos in training mode, but by actually playing it. You can't, right? Unlike plenty of other games, you can't just play a fighting game and get really good. You need to learn specific combo timing.

I think thats the main problem with fighting games now. You can't just get good through fighting other players. You NEED to grind against a training dummy for hours first. ALL of them are like this now.

>>717613120
you can you will have to actively experiment to learn the game's systems
biggest example of this being put to practice is Tyler1 making it to masters with no labbing, all ranked queue

>>717613120
Tyler1 has pretty much proved that you can. Wastoids cannot understand or practice perseverance, though, so you listing practice modes as a bad thing pretty much broadcasts that you'll never ever improve at any fighting game (or RTS, or ARPG without up to date build guides, or any puzzle game). Enjoy being shit forever because you don't understand how to improve yourself.

>>717613120
I don't see why you couldn't, and I really don't see why you say that's the problem with fighting games 'now'. Fighting games try more and more to lower the skill floor that I'd say it's easier than it used to be to just play it and get a handle of it. I have a much easier time imagining someone getting good at Strive without labbing than someone getting good at +R without labbing, for instance.

>>717612080
i don't play competitive team based games. It is not a real victory if i have to share it. Mine the glory of victory mine the shame of a loss. I rely only on my own. There is no purest way to prove my ability

>>717613526
not really. that mutt plays modern guile. of course he wont need to lab

.

Fighting games will never be saved, will never be popular and will always remains as a niche genre with not that many players. Fighting games are too hard to learn, always focuses in the multiplayer aspect and filters any new player that is not a masochist

>>717613526
Your dumbass missed the point though. You can get good at a FPS like Quake 3 by just playing the game game. You can become fluent in a language by just spending time using the language. Fighting games aren't like that anymore. Try getting actually good at UNIEL or Tekken 7 without time in training mode. You'll never pull off an actually good combo just by playing.

>>717613596
Well thats one hell of an example as the various GGXX games have been some of the hardest games to master and Strive is one of the easiest fighters ever made. How about SF2 to SF4? I think you could get good at SF2 just playing it, learning tricks as you play, and maybe supplementing that with some of the more esoteric knowledge and frame data later. But in SF4 you have to learn combos and linking more upfront, which necessitates some time in Training mode.

>>717615496
I'd agree SF2 is an easier game to get into just by playing it and SF4 is harder, but I don't think it changes anything about newer fighting games generally being easier to get into. SF4 is not a new fighting game, SF6 is and I don't find it hat difficult to imagine someone managing to get a grasp of that just by playing it either. Most new fighting games have tried to lower the skill floor and increased the accessibility compared to the late 2000s/early 2010s games, and while I think those games would be challenging enough to learn just by playing, I don't think it's as true for newer ones, generally speaking.

New fighting games do still have plenty of knowledge checks that might be tough to learn without training, but I think learning your own gameplan, both on a technical level and with the plan itself, is something I can see someone figuring out just by playing.

>>717615980
It might also be that older fighting game players are used to things being more intuitive, where as someone coming in fresh during the last decade is going to be more used to the whole toolkit of using "heat" or "drive" dashing convert into or extend a long combo etc. Unless they grew up playing "anime" fighters.

>>717615496
Do you think a normal person learns spawn timers by just getting high and vibing any more than they learn anything in a fighting game

>>717595929
Not true you fag
The genre had shake ups and the fgc rules them out.
Smash Bros IS what would draw people in but the fgc has made is so ugly and unfun your reputation as smash players is the worst of any fighting game.
Stages are large, movement is open allowing for different type of tactics including taking the fights to areas more advantageous to your playstyle, the stage itself could be a hazard that players have to deal with
>everything must be final destination
>fgc players admit they'd be massive pussies and run the exact second they have advantage to time out proving NO ONE who plays 'professionally' has an ounce of skill
Items could add in randomness, which any SKILLED pro could adapt to. They even included stickers in the last game to more customize your character to your playstyle to give you buffs that wouldnt exist otherwise and everyone could do it
>fgc disables all that because any thing that could make a fight interesting must be removed because some autistic man child will scream that it was rigged if his opponent got to an item before them. Making every iteration of the game identical in every single way
Smash Ultimates could add in deeper tactics on how and when they get used
>fgc disables them because you can lose ultimate gauge if you die with it which hurts the little baby brains that they cant just build meter all game and spam infinite combos like in all the other recent titles
Literally everything PLAYERS would want to see has been regulated out of the game to make it as sterile and boring as possible and any pro would get dogwalked by casual players if they actually played the game because they have no idea how deal with what the game has when its not a flat plane with empty platforms

>>717573617
I hate when random tourists get beat up by some giga shitter online and think they need 9999999999 hours to compete at low level

>>717613120
you won't get max rank by auto piloting random buttons you like
but if you aren't retarded and know how to learn then nothing stops you

>>717616570
is the fgc in the room with us right now

>>717571103 (OP)
For me the main problem is that they don't cather to casuals, my experience with figthing games is;
>Gild Gear 2 was free on steam for the weekend
>Try it
>Pick the cutest character
>Got my ass beat
>Pick the character that beat me
>Got my ass beat
>Do it again
>Got my ass beat

Unironically what the fuck do you want me to there?
It's not like I raged quit, I played both days and got nearly 5 hours in total and I didn't win a single match, that 's just not fun

Like nigga, if I start Minecraft like now without knowing anything I would have a good time, if I start BG3 without knowing anything I would have a good time
Why the fuck do I need to spend 6000 hours getting my ass beat and aesthetically learn every combo in the game just to be able to have some fun?

>>717616570
>fighting games need to be party games actually!
*yawn*
boring take

>>717617015
>gild gear 2
funny bait i smirked

>>717583049
>He thinks the complex motions are what would save the fighting game naggermunity.
LMAO. Delusional.

Face it, Tiger. Nobody wants thuggery.

i heard that it's an aging fanbase and zoomers don't care for it.

>>717617015
Anon if you pick up any competitive multiplayer game while knowing exactly nothing about it you will not have a good time.

>>717616570
>fgc players admit they'd be massive pussies and run the exact second they have advantage to time out proving NO ONE who plays 'professionally' has an ounce of skill
Play for money and this is what happens. People will take the safest, most consistent option every single time no matter how boring it is.

>>717615496
He didn't miss the point, you are just fucking stupid and stubborn.
I learned SFIV EXACTLY how you are describing. Every now and then I tried ideas in training mode but by FAR the most meaningful part of that practice came from actually trying to do those things in an actual match. Combos aren't worth shit if you can't actually land them in a real context.

>>717617015
just play bots and have your good time

>>717617015
>they don't cater to casuals
This fucking guy...

>>717613919
Lol aka I don't understand how to uplift and work as a team to achieve a win

The problem with fighting games is the same as with strategy games: they only make sense when playing against other humans.
Now add the problem of input lag and you have a pretty terrible experience.
Creating CPUs that learn to play with those machine learning algorithms could help a lot, kind of like the AIs in Gran Turismo 7. Developers could train multiple CPUs with different difficulty levels, so the player would feel like they're playing against another human and not against a fake AI that cheats all the time and makes the game completely stupid.

>>717611260
I can find matches in my favorite games every day. Some of them also keep getting content. In what way is that not alive?

>>717617597
>Now add the problem of input lag and you have a pretty terrible experience.
just tweak with your ingame settings bro

>>717617716
If you're game has below 10k concurrent players it's dead lol

>>717618024
XD

>>717617015
aesthetically learn?

>>717617015
>GG2
>pick the cutest character
uhhh Izuna?

>>717616802
There are no niggers near me no.

Do modern fighting games receive patches with more content from time to time?
That seems like a good strategy to keep players coming back. Release a new fighter every 5 months or something, I don't know.

>>717617104
Its only boring because its objectively correct and theres never been an argument any sweatlord created to disprove it so theres nothing left to discuss
Treat fighting games the same as you would your friends coming over to play including calling them a bitch for stalling and the games become infinitely more fun to watch

>>717571103 (OP)
maybe if they all add makoto to their games, I'd have no choice but to play all of them

>>717617269
>money is all that matters
Well when you have no life skills to even work a job flipping burgers then you have to make fighting games your only source of income

>>717618318
They do, it's one of the few genres that is better off with update patches and characters instead of having to buy a whole new $30 disc for one character and a handful of balance changes.

>>717617270
And your damage is shit if you can't memorize the frames for linking to convert into a combo, you stupid shitter. But still, your nigger brain missed the point in that this isn't me complaining about a specific game, but pointing out that fighting games now are increasingly filled with unintuitive checks and an emphasis on longer combos that are best studied outside of normal VS play. Was it always like that? No.

>>717617210
>zoomers don't care for it.
but gen z loves counter strike 2

>>717618452
Fuck off retard.
No, none of these arguments about how fighting games need to stop being fighting games are good. Fuck off and just play those other genres instead, I literally don't understand why you wouldn't just do that.

>>717598609
Uh, I doubt that getting good at team work and spread will make CS:GO a game with likable characters, cool music, beautiful stages (although they're not bad) and fair challenge where everything depends on you. Imo shooters like these are flawed fundamentally, with few exceptions like Quake which is based and soulful.

>>717616570
>Items could add in randomness, which any SKILLED pro could adapt to
It is not fun to play against or watch someone be invincible for 10 seconds so all you can do is run away or throw away your stock like a retard by hitting nothing. "Adapting to" items and obtuse stages turn smash into a camp-fest so I agree with them in this case, despite not giving a fuck about smash competitively.

>>717618673
OK double down on acting fucking stupid I guess. Last (You) you are getting from me but don't let that stop you from acting retarded for attention, I see it works great for you in these threads.

>>717598609
Lol you know these niggas never do post cs and dota are the boogeyman of /v/ and fighting game players

>>717619170
And you retards never post your fighting game hours and rank, what's your point?

All I do these days is load up Strive and fight dudes as Chipp. I have never loved a fighting game character more than Strive Chipp.

>>717619407
the point is 99% of /v/ is shit at basically everything.
If these retarded bait threads turned into lobby threads regularly, then maybe this board will finally spawn someone with an opinion worth having on fighting games

>>717619407
I guarantee I have more hours in fighting games then you have in any of those games

>>717619615
>he wants to play with retards on 4chan.
I barely even want to talk to you for an extended period let alone play.

>>717619758
>138 hours in one game
>im fighting game expert btw
KEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>717618798
>Quake which is based and soulful.
quake requires less precision than counter strike because the hitboxes are big
resource management gets repetitive after a while

Can't we all just be friends?

>>717619942
goal post being moved almost 200 hours without even mentioning fightcade like i said i have more hours in fighting games then you do in dota 2 or cs please post your hours in any of those games

>>717619407
I'm a fraud but I'm trying to pump these numbers up

>>717620086
1230 hours in dota 2
pathetic

>>717620373
Would you prefer more or less?

>>717619615
Old games are old
New games are bad
Shan't

>>717620436
more
10000 hours at least

>>717620086
Lol respectable at least one posted

>>717620512
Those are like, pro hours man, I have a job and a girlfriend

>>717619875
I can find games just fine, I'm providing a solution to the retards here who seem to be hard-stuck between "knuckle-dragging casual" and "at least developed double digit IQ" and want to cry because they can't figure out combos longer than 4 hits.

>>717571103 (OP)
>invite friends over
>buy 30 rack of favorite beer
>pop in picrel
How to save fighting games in 3 easy steps

>>717571103 (OP)
fighting games are only good when playing locally
the genre just doesn't work online no matter how hard they try

>>717620341
Are you completely new to fighting games? How are you finding them? Did you join Strive when it was established, if so did you get duffed up by veterans?

>>717620579
>they can't figure out combos
this has nothing to do with combos
people in 4chan just hate fighting games

>>717618719
>games dying
>reputation is below that of child predators
>conventions pull no one while even League of Sex Offenders sells out entire arenas
>player bases lose 99% of people after the first month
>terrible design
>worse netcode
But hey at least you have titless bald women now to drum up another 4 trannies to buy your games
Maybe do what everyone has been telling you and your genre might be successful again

>>717618710
yes we do =-)

>>717620902
People on 4chan hate anything where you have to think for more than 5 seconds, and yes combos are consistently one of the reasons why in the case of fighting games because they get 3 touched and can only answer back with scratch damage.

>>717620987
see
these gen z subhumans are obsessed with lol and counter strike 2

>>717619508
Chip the nuff

>>717621219
fighting games in general are not very popular even outside of 4chan
4chan dislikes fighting games
the general public is just indifferent to fighting games

>>717621263
neither are fighting games, league sucks, and CS:GO was 100x better i don't think anybody *likes* cs2 so let's not get ahead of ourselves anon...
why does this board never talk about counter strike though?

>>717620880
majority of the hours for strive are from launch
i launched training mode last time I played but haven't played a match in a few years now

>>717621485
I'm aware of that.
At most evo makes some people get a little more hyped up to watch them, but fighters are niche for a reason. The only people making these threads begging for fighters to be saved just care about having fresh blood to beat on to preserve their ego and have no friends to play with, or just want to stir shit by posting steamcharts anyways.
Both can be solved by skipping the same 500 posts we've seen before and just playing.

>>717597050
>then why are arena fps and RTS dead as well?
>Arena
Because nobody wants fast FPS anymore. Next.
>RTS
Buttons, just like... fighting games. When "Actions Per Minute" and "Micro" became a thing, RTS was doomed.

Why do you think ASSFAGGOTS took over from RTS? They only need 6 buttons, instead of knowing build-tree order and how fast to slam said build-tree order.

>>717621607
lol is very popular and counter strike 2 too
>why does this board never talk about counter strike though?
4chan opinion is irrelevant

>>717621607
lol you really think /v/ a super casual board thats big into gacha is going to talk about a sport like cs

>>717620880
also I'm not completely new
I've played several fightan
however the only fightan I played for a decent amount of time was SFV @ 200 hours

>>717599995
>Arena FPS
>not being team
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_III_Arena#Official_expansion

Plus UT, UT2k3, and UT2k4 had Team Deathmatch, Bombing Run, etc. other Team Modes.

Face it, the reality is: Arena shooters are too fast for most players. Just like Fighting Games are too complex for most players.

>>717622353
>cs2 is popular
only because they sacrificed their working game for this buggy mess. fuck valve.
>>717622507
maybe we can turn some of these people straight if we talk about cs more

>>717615496
>You can get good at a FPS like Quake 3 by just playing the game game
LMAO.

Good? No. Okay at? Sure.

You're not going to get to jump strafing speed just by playing the game unless you see someone else doing that and learning it. Similar to how BF4 didn't have the jump drop-shot glitch until the end of it's life where people found that out and it became the "meta."

>Street Fighter 6
It's okay, but it's pretty brainless and simple. You just locate the slime button and go to masters.
>Tekken 8
Currently in a state of lmao.
>Soive
Aggressively bad and simple game. Also for trannies.
>KOFXV
Actually the best modern fighting game but unpopular.
>Fatal Fury
Will probably check it out again since they did the balance patch. Wanted to blow my brains out when higher ranks were just the Hokutomaru and Kain containment area.
>air-dash anime fighter with 5 current players
Nah.
>my heckin' pixel art good tastes game Turd Strike, KOFXIII, +R please upvote! I play Q! I play it all the time please (never plays it).
Nah.
>future horizon of onions slop tag fighters for viewers of Max "the shill" Dood
Bleak.

>>717620880
NTA but I started Strive in Season 3 after not having played fighting games since like a decade (and only really casually before) and I'm doing fine
Also got to Master in SF6 in ~120Hrs of ranked matches iirc?

You're only going to eat shit as a beginner if you play games that have really low playercounts

>>717623460
>KOFXV
It's actually hilarious how refreshing that game can feel after playing a bunch of other modern ones back to back.

People have nigger fatigue now, they talk about it openly and even say the phrase "black fatigue" on social media. FGC is black as hell and thus people are starting to reject it. It's only going to get worse.

>>717610130
I never bought it because Ed Boon mistreated Hanzo Hasashi.

>>717623057
Thing is, meta-glitches were never intended and are a side effect of a game becoming ancient. You'd be GOOD at Q3A and BF4 just by playing them, just like a Melee player would be good at the game without ever knowing Waveshine, which would just make him better once he does learns it.

Modern fighters have frontloaded their games with mechanics trying to emulate the freeform combos and unintuintive techniques players made in past games, and its made the games less approachable for someone who wants to learn by playing against others.

No one can deny that you can't fucking -truly- play MeltyBlood, UNIEL, modern Tekken and prolly many more without knowing your combos. Thats why all of those games have noob-friendly auto-combo settings built into them. And no, you cannot intuitively learn the combos in any of those games by just playing. You have to learn in training mode. If thats the way fighters want to be designed, then they'll always be a good spectacle to watch and a great hobby for people who want to lab them, but as per the OP they will never find a wider appeal.

>>717620618
>rack
I see what you did there

>>717571103 (OP)
>SFIV still not on sale
i'm still not buying it sorry

>>717620919
>retard obsessed with "le tranny"
>abhorrent dogshit opinion
Every time.
And no you retard, I don't want fighting games to be """successful""" - I am not an investor so I gain literally nothing from that, and I have seen the kind of shit that becomes successful.
"Street Fighter" 6 is the most successful fighting game on the market right now and it is completely unappealing to me: it looks like shit, it sounds like shit and it plays like shit.
I don't want my genre to spawn the next Fortnite or whatever the fuck your idiot zoomie mind wants, just fuck off already.

>>717624706
they keep adding autocombos because dumbasses can't be fucked to learn 5 button presses in a row

>>717571237
I constantly hear people here and on Twitter complain about zoomers apparently invading en masse and ruining the FGC, but then every photo I see from fighting games events and tournaments, there's very rarely anyone there under 30.

So I'm a bit confused.

>>717595534
Based??

>>717624706
>Thing is, meta-glitches were never intended and are a side effect of a game becoming ancient. You'd be GOOD at Q3A
quake 1 already had strafe jump
you dont know anything about competitive quake
shut up

>>717624859
but why would you get the older game?
really though, even the season 1 & 2 bundle is expensive even though you get 8 more characters. still leaves you with season 3 to purchase...

>>717595876
SNK has always been perceived as bigger than they actually are.

>>717625278
EVO champ for SF6 is a zoomer
There's also that "Micky" guy who apparently beat a bunch of oldheads and he looks super young too
Every single Strive player I can recall looks like a zoomer, Granblue players as well
Tekken 8 is played by old people, yes. In fact it's the only game I know of that held a tournament exclusively for senior citizens.

>>717625371
i was incredibly dissapointed at how the only fighting game that didn't go on sale to celebrate EVO was street fighter.

>>717625051
>it plays like shit.
every fighting game plays like shit
comeback mechanics
meters
mixups
rounds
combos
come on this genre is a joke

>>717625672
none of that is why SF6 or any other fighting game is shit though.

>>717625672
dont forget the png background

>>717625741
yes it is
imagine having comeback mechanics in starcraft brood war or quake

>>717625672
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.
Just don't be a retard and ask for the genre to become something else because you don't like it. I don't like FPS (competitive or otherwise) but I don't enter threads dedicated to those games and suggest that they would all be better if they were in third person and you used melee weapons instead because I'm not fucking stupid.

>>717595876
Samurai Shodown '19 was handled appallingly across the board. The Stadia version actually released before the PC port, and then there was a year long exclusivity deal with Epic. Then the Steam version arrives, a full two years after the PS4 version, and it doesn't have crossplay with the EGS version. Then they release an Xbox Series version (but not a PS5 one, so I suspect Microsoft must have chipped in some money) that doesn't have crossplay with the Xbone, so they split the already small Xbox playerbase. So now the game's basically dead as a doornail outside of a few dozen Japanese guys who play on the PS4 version on weekends.

It's a shame too because it's actually quite good.

>>717625872
>imagine having reload mechanics in madden
that's how fucking retarded your comparison was

Why are you still replying to this shitposting retard that's just pulling words he heard from other fighting game threads with zero clue what they mean?

>>717625913
i want your stupid genre to die

>>717571103 (OP)
>Can fighting games be saved?

>>717626079
Two more weeks

>>717626189
paizuri

>>717625950
This. You’re unironically better off playing Samsho 2 or 5 Special on fightcade because at least everyone is on the same platform

>>717626346
Imagine...

>>717625979
>that's how fucking retarded your comparison was
i dont like fighting games because i think comeback mechanics and rounds are stupid
in a quake duel if you are losing you just have to deal with it
comeback mechanics are a just stupid crutch

/v/ is so bad at video games

>>717626464
Why do you keep focusing on comeback mechanics instead of complaining about combos and mixups? Did you realize that complaining about the latter makes you sound like a scrub retard?

>>717626464
The only comeback mechanic I've ever really enjoyed are ring outs and they play into the skill of positioning so they're only sort of a comeback mechanics anyway

>>717626469
Yeah I figured out how retarded this place is after noticing the frequency of the gacha and mmo threads here.

>>717571103 (OP)
Casual shitter here. I played few times on hitbox and stick and I think I should say with 100% confidence that gamepads suck HARD for fighting games. Even the best ones (DS2, DS4, DS5, cheap usb saturn pad) are such dogshit compared to hitbox and stick (though stick is tricky at first) it's unreal. This is why fighting games are hard. The default tool is just bad (though you probably can emulate hitbox feel on good KB). Yes-yes I know some professional play on pads but it's not really different from professional artists using bad tools for drawing.
>tl;dr
fighting games will be more popular if HORI htiboxes or sticks were cheap. Or if they were part of default console bundles.

>>717626469
90% of this board as always been fuckawful at games, see stuff like any threads here on competitive games or how the Nioh alpha demo filtered the vast majority of the board.

Unironically why is this? Wouldn't a board of supposed videogame enthusiasts be filled with people worth their salt?

>>717626546
>mixups
i dont like glorified guessing games

>>717625672
comeback mechanics and sometimes meters I'll give you, but the last 3 are just parts of the game existing. What next, you gonna complain about attacks having hitboxes next?

>>717626829
a lot of "pro" players use normal gamepads so no.
Punk for example has won a shitton of tourney including EVO and he plays with a ps4 controller

>>717625354
strafe jump isn't a "glitch" though you stupid nigger, its the most fucking basic movement technique that you WHILE PLAYING.

try again to have a point

>>717626695
>mmo threads here.
Take that back faggot.

>>717627079
There are great players that even use the analogue stick over the dpad, all controller talk is just cope

>>717627018
>KEKKK FUCK THESE ANIME GAMES TIME TO PLAY SOME GOOD ASS GROUNDED FOOTSIES STREET FIGHTER NOW ITS TIME TO CHECK MY CHARACTERS BNBS...ACKKKK

>>717627079
>>717627182
>"Yes-yes I know some professional play on pads"
Doesn't matter what they use. Once you try something like hitbox you will never use pad.
You can play DCS on pad with gyro+KB and be even competent in air quake. Or you can just buy hotas+TrackIR and have real awesome time.

>>717627018
I was trying to figure out which uni character that BnB belonged to, but honestly anime players are the worst thing about anime fighters.
Majority of them are trainingboars that main the most annoying solitaire setplay looping characters so that's who you'll be going against 80% of the time in these discords.

>>717627090
>strafe jump isn't a "glitch"
quake 3 was not supposed to have strafe jump
carmack didnt like strafe jump
seriously shut the fuck up
strafe jump was a happy accident

>>717627412
>Once you try something like
the dude has been sponsored to use other controllers and he still uses pad and still wins a lot with it so again, no.

>>717627018
melty and strive are still played unlike jive though

>>717573617
This is a lot to take in so let's break it all down.
>The biggest insurmountable mechanical issue with fighting games is that they're too difficult
No they ain't.
>There are many complexities to multiplayer FPS
And there are many in fighting games, what's your point?
>but the key idea of running around and clicking on enemies is super simple
So is throwing out a punch or a kick in a fighting game if we're talking the most basic shit one can do.
>Same goes for MOBAs
See above.
>Fighting games are not like that; there's no low-level play.
Yes they are and yes there is.
>You can mash, but that's like randomly running around and shooting at everything in an FPS
Didn't you just say it was simple to run around and klick on enemies so why does it suddenly matter what the player's capabilities are?
>That's not playing, that's pressing buttons, and it's not fun
What a person considers fun and what you consider fun do not need to line up.
>but coach coop is fucking dead and so are the arcades
It's only dead if you're not willing to actually meet up with people to play video games. Stop being chronically online.
>The best you can do is play with friends on Discord
Says fucking who? You?
>Games like chess or TCGs don't really have it either; you have to learn the rules before you play, but people still love them
And people love playing fighting games, so where you going with this?
>The other issue is that rules of fightans are extremely fucking obscure
If you're a dumbass that only watches streams.
>What the fuck is a frametrap, for example?
Shit you'd learn and figure out on your own if you actually played fighting games. The more you do something the more the vernacular between what you see, hear, and do begins to line up and that's for any hobby.

And don't even need to read the rest of it. Long story short you are a boring motherfucker and I'd genuinely be surprised if people want to hang out with you in public.

>>717627018
>strive
Huh?
Strive specifically is the anime fighter where you don't have to join a discord and has short and simple combos.

Characters are ugly

>>717571103 (OP)
Why is it everytime I visit here there's a thread declaring fighting games are dead?

>>717627536
>the dude
Again anon. It doesn't matter. How can you still don't understand the point? It my work for dude but not for others. And others people who can't into shitty pads drop game because they never tried other "genre standard" controller options that are popular for a reason.

>>717626831
It's a place to talk about video games, not actually play them, and most people can talk a lot better than they can play.

>>717627854
>It my work for dude but not for others
right back at you. If a fancy controller was necesari there would be close to zero players using pads and the reality is they're close to 50-50 pad to fancy controler players in big tournaments
>And others people who can't into shitty pads drop game
>source: i saw it in a dream

>>717627449
I tried to play MB once some cool dudes made custom lobby app (like in good old act cadenza times). It worked perfectly without any discords but only 2 fucking people used it. Because those discord troons need their discords.

>>717627746
>It's only dead if you're not willing to actually meet up with people to play video games
fuck you and fuck every smelly member of the fgc
fighting games tournaments are almost as disgusting as yu gi oh tournaments

>>717627892
It's also why people here love shit like steam charts. Removes even needing to know about a game to discuss it.

who do i pick up in melty though

>>717627961
You still can't understand the point.
>If a fancy controller was necesari
>reality is they're close to 50-50 pad
Should we watch some tournaments and count pad players? I'm pretty pad players are minorities. Another take: you can start learning how to draw with small intous 3 tablet if you want and some people still use it in 2025 but it's awful way to learn how to draw. Same or pads. Hitbox is miles better and more comfortable to play.

>>717627534
whatever carmack's feelings on it, its not something you have to lab separately from playing like you do reseting a combo dummy 800 times to get the frame inputs right for your fucking combo, dummy. You missed the point and just want to be try to pretend you're quake pro instead of acknowledging that if you play any Quake or UT game for hours and hours, your aim, movement and map-knowledge will get better and you'll even pick up sense about powerup timings. Do you have a point thats actually on topic?

>>717628221
F.Aoko

>>717628085
Either I've been lucky or I'm in the safe rooms, but I've never smelled the odor people usually associate with fighting game tournaments. TGC? Yeah for sure, there's a card place down the street from me that constantly smells like sweat and moldy cheese and I've almost vomit on occasion being there; but every FGC event I've been to be it major or locals, I haven't had to hold my breath in disgust. Maybe I'm not hanging around enough fat or autistic people.

Fighting game threads on /v/ are fascinating because people who don't play will so confidently say the dumbest shit and then get mad when they're exposed.

>>717628319
How many hitboxes won at EVO?

>>717628319
>Should we watch some tournaments and count pad players?
yeah go ahead. That's why i know it's close to 50-50, i was watching EVO and i noticed that. It's even higher pad players in games like GBVSR with modern controls that are easier in pad

>>717628129
>It's also why people here love shit like steam charts
Why are they bad in context of fighting games? You can see the average online around the world. Fighting games are 1vs1 okay but latency is important but in fighting games skill level is important too. Plus not all players you see are using public games. Add timezones to this and that's it.

>>717628568
>>717628584
Are you pad players?

>>717628585
Because why should I care how many people are playing when I just need another person to play?

>>717628654
You didn't answer my question.

>>717628585
Because retards like you obsess with how many people are playing a game instead of actually caring about the game. It's a meaningless number that fags can use for their shitty doomposting without having to put in any effort.

>>717573617
They didn't use to be like that. Old fighting games made sense and the depth was kind of discovered the deeper you went in. Combos were fairly intuitive to learn, they didn't have all of these moves that let you dash-cancel in to convert a single hit-confirm into a long combo that requires meter to extend it and all of this shit.

I blame anime rushdown fighters with loose combo systems, and I blame all of the resource meters whose addition didn't really add as much depth as it looked like they would. Future entires have just been trying to escape all of the problems "resources" added while making things worse in other ways.

>>717628753
I'm not going to answer your question. But you should answer my: are you pad player?

>>717628359
>UT
there is no advanced movement in unreal tournament with the exception of ut2003 and nobody plays ut2003
>Quake
>game for hours and hours, your aim, movement and map-knowledge will get better
if you are beginner you get killed over and over again
most people cannot even finish the elevate training level in quake live
you dont know anything about arena shooters

>>717628319
>>717628654
>>717628846
Pad players are not and never have been the minority when it comes to fighting games and you are an idiot talking about shit you know nothing about.

>>717628846
You should answer mine first.

>>717628669
Because you want to engage players who are on your or slightly upper skill level to have a good time. Don't even try lie. I play other 1vs1 genre. I didn't wagecuck 8 hours just to waste my time mindlessly stomping AI tier player or be on the receiving end. You learn nothing from this.

>>717628434
>autistic people.
people who participate in fighting game tournaments are autistic

>>717629025
And you learn nothing by obsessing over steam chart numbers instead of playing games.

>>717628991
Are you a pad player?
>>717628995
Pad players are in majority yeah. I was wrong. Are you a pad player?

>>717629127
You still haven't answered me.

>>717571575
>>717582684
>can't even bring arguments and just shit their pants
lmao unc just admit your genre is dogshit and move on, go cry about las vegas dying too or smt

>>717625472
>old heads with sedentsry lifestyles are being beaten by younger guys who have sharper reflexes and different strategies
That shit happens everywhere. Old ass niggas should stop crying.

>>717629205
This?
>How many hitboxes won at EVO?
I don't know. Anyway are you a pad player?

>>717629318
You could've looked it up and answered me.

>>717629295
Yes, I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with fighting games being intentionally designed to bridge the gap between experienced and new players and allow them to fraud out wins in volatile as fuck games. Nope, no such thing going on.

bump

>>717571103 (OP)
No. The genre just isn't fun for the vast majority of gamers. It's a relic from the arcade days that has little to nothing in terms of reinventing itself or changing things up to bring in more players while retaining a high skill ceiling.
Leave it in the past where it belongs.

>>717629526
Young kids are winning in old shit too.

>>717629598
Such as...?

>>717629698
+R

>>717629698
MvC2

I love fighting games.

>>717629698
ST

>>717571103 (OP)
As long as Plus R lives the genre doesn’t need saving

>>717629698
AACC

>>717629463
Maybe. It's all pointless. Anons missed my point. But I know for sure majority of /v/ and /vg/ fighting gods use hitboxes, kb and sticks.

>>717627018
The amount of seethe this image exudes is astounding.

>>717629698
diddy kong racing
zelda
mother

>>717629893
>majority
you lost on that front multiple times already now get to answering me.

>>717630032
300 sticks

>>717584127
By dead they mean it doesn’t have proper lgbt representation unlike strive

>>717629946
>diddy kong racing
OK, I know this one has to be bullshit.

>>717630236
Is there a reason 4trancels are so obsessed with LGBTchads?

>>717628943
>if you are beginner you get killed over and over again
that's playing the game you dumb faggot
Steam players not bothering to play a training stage doesn't mean they can't. It means they'd rather play the goddamn game instead.
Man you are not as smart as you think you are.

>>717571103 (OP)
what is it about fighting games that makes you faggots this mad? no other genre gets hate like this with anons wishing for it to cease existing. so crazy bro, truly mentally ill lmao.
relax niggas jeez.

>>717630823
FGCfags are awful human beings who want to see you suffer.

>>717630556
shut up
quake live has less than 500 players
people get kicked out in clan arena because quake live is full of elitists

>>717630897
its just a game lil bro. a very fun one.

>>717630948
This is the fate of fighting games. One generation without new blood and they will die.

>>717631032
laugh because it happen dont crie cause its over

>>717630823
see >>717574167

>>717630897
Nta but also what's with the faggots like you who speak of the "fgc" like it's some big bad organization in a comic or show that wants you to feel nothing but bad things? Like what prompted this strange amount of hatred and resentment?

>>717631032
That would be a shame, but modern fighting games have taught me that sometimes dead is better.
Street Fighter is "alive" but what I see is a skinwalker, trying very poorly to look like it.

>>717631148
I been playing fighting games since a wee lad and never met anyone from this fgc. can I get invited?

>>717631148
>Like what prompted this strange amount of hatred and resentment?
FGC of /v/ in this context.

>>717631194
theres enough player online to get constant matches bro, and this is coming from someone who lives in a third world country not in asia or mexico(which gets usa match ups)

i love how /v/ hates fighters when they are difficulty + 100% gameplay, and yet also cries about movie games/nintendo games being too easy

>>717631258
Check the locals brother.

>>717631434
they love gatcha and chink unreal engine mass produced slop like you wouldn’t believe though.

>>717631434
They're not fun to learn. Even RTS are more enjoyable. You will have more fun gameplay trying to learn WW2 dogfighting in Il-2.

>>717631434
/v/ is full of casual elitists who love the idea of being perceived as a hardcore gamer.

>>717631398
You misread my post.
I know it has a lot of players, the game itself is just not what I want from Street Fighter. It does not play, or even look like it.

>>717631575
Im having fun.
not pictured, another 1k+ hours in strive and SFV.

>>717631803
>1,2k hours in Mortal Kombat
unacceptable

>>717631760
oh, well okay.
you playing third strike on fightcade? or what you play instead?

>>717631575
>They're not fun to learn
to learn you have to lose a lot of games

>>717631889
yea I agree. ngl I had fun even though it is a shiet game. didnt bother with MK1 at all though. unironically the gore is no longer appealing to me and quiet opposite actually, I find it evil as fuck.