Thread 717824229

I was thinking about how and why visuals in games have deteriorated, despite higher resolutions, better textures and so on and I came to a conclusion- they're showing too much. By showing too much they don't tickle player's imagination and the player isn't left wondering "whoa, what is that. I want to know more". If you come up to a character and can see the hair on his face, the veins in his eyes then what's there to wonder about? What you see is what you get.
This is why fixed isometric is so appealing, it shows you the general idea of what you're looking at, often stylized, without giving you everything.

>>717824229 (OP)
Number go high, grug smile.
Things are good at 1080p/60fps.

I didn't read you post, but let's talk about the real issue - how come that in 25 years not a single game has managed improve upon Majesty's formula? Every single attempt - medieval conquest, majesty 2, lessaria, recently gold gold adventure gold and whatever other shit I can't remember has resulted in complete failure without an ounce of soul and mechanics that can't compete with a game from the year 2000.

Game devs should not only focus on what the player can see but what he can't see. Without using nebulous terms like "soul", you have to have some abstraction that hooks the player in or else one look at things will tell the player everything there is to know.

Three cheers for Fervus!

>>717824429
No talent- there's a demo of some Majesty clone on steam and it does everything Majesty does but pretty much without any of its charm. The visuals are bland, the heroes are uninteresting and voice lines are boring. And of course no visual clarity because 3d.

Maybe that's why Faith and Darkwood are such good horror games. Because you don't really see what you're looking at so your brain is forced to do the heavy lifting.

>>717824429
>>717824570
Oh yeah, Crown of Greed. Look at it, some demon invaded the world and stole all the colour. Without zooming in hard you won't even be able to tell the heroes apart.

That's why I think Star Sector is an amazing looking game despite technically being 12 years old. All ships have great spritework, battles can range from 1v1 to massive, effects are nice and visual clarity shits on modern 3d games. Even in the middle of a battle you can tell each ship, missile, fighter apart.

>>717824878
The visuals really do suck, given that every building just looks like a variant of every other building, but there are a lot of other issues with the game design in general
One of the big ones for me was the fact that the demo map at least was entirely made up of corridors as opposed to Majesty's open fields, which you think would favour defensive play but they still use the same guard tower design from Majesty where they're kinda weak and get expensively quickly, which meant you had to figure out the best places to put them, but here the best places are always those chokepoints and they're constantly under threat because monsters will always funnel into those chokepoints
It just felt weirdly restrictive and at a certain point I just wonder if they'd be better off implementing buildable walls and gates, which wasn't a thing in Majesty either but if you're radically changing up how the maps work then you should be building to that strength instead
I remember there being some other things but I'd have to relaunch the demo to remember fully, I was just disappointed with it overall

>>717824229 (OP)
>Majesty
Fuck yeah, that game was fun.

>>717825537
>I remember there being some other things but I'd have to relaunch the demo to remember fully, I was just disappointed with it overall
Same, all it did was made me appreciate OG Majesty even more.

Then there's obviously something always lost in translation when going from 2D to 3D, look at Fallout vs Oblivion with guns.
Even putting bethesda's lack of talent and general shittiness the gore should look better, right? You're in first person, have more pixels to work with, up close.
But it's worse. It's just generic. It has nothing on Fallout's npcs getting torn to shreds with burst fire, melting them with plasma or cutting them in half with laser. Bloody Mess in nu-Fallout is one of the worst examples of visual diarrhea you can get.
Same goes for new Mortal Kombat, it's just live leak: the game. The original MK fatalities and gore were creative in comparison.

To conclude, all games should be isometric 2D with fixed camera, turn-based combat system. Even fps games.

>>717826204
>Even fps games.
This man loves his AC-130 missions

Diablo 2 with the widescreen patch looks absolutely incredible, taking the old graphics and just making everything smaller so you can see a lot more packed an obscene amount of detail into each pixel.
In comparison the "remaster" of diablo 2 didn't look that great. I think for more or less the same reasons you point out.

>>717824448
Having a well written shader and art direction will always trump graphical fidelity. I remember when launch material for one of the halo games came out (can't remember if it was reach or odst) and Bungie made a huge deal about having x amount of polygons for the wraith chassi, showing off how particles bounced off the hull.

I just kept thinking to myself that they could have achieved the same effect with a particle system and a good shader. This graphical arms race we have today is slowly strangling Vidya as a hobby.

>>717826204
the famous turn based combat games commandos 2

I want games with pre-rendered graphics back!
GIVE THEM BACK!

>>717826863
He retorts on a turn-based site.

>>717826846
this enrages and filters the brown third worlder

>>717824926
Jeez, is that from some beta footage?
Those character portraits are definitely not the final ones

>>717827029
While we are at it I want color back as well.

>>717824229 (OP)
Isometric games were soul, has there been any good recent isogames released?

i like majesty 2, also.

>>717828670
You are not welcome here anymore.

>>717826012
Pickpocket status: CORRECTED

>>717824229 (OP)
Well more importantly, your pic has contrast and colour; modern vidya often has a washout filter on everything that all becomes a faded blur

>>717828670
ew

>>717829032
>>717828701
wait, wtf. i missremembered. i take it back

>>717829118
Apologies accepted. Welcome back.

Meanwhile
https://x.com/CallofDutyWire/status/1954624776921894980

>>717824229 (OP)
What is this game? Does it have switch port? Are there games like this I can buy on eshop?

>>717826846
Literally thousands of hours of fun and engaging gameplay

>>717830959
>not a 12 hour long third person over the shoulder action game with 3 hours of cutscenes
pc cucks lose again!

>>717830489
I know it's ultra ironic, but they're legitimate questions...

for me it's Emperor

>>717825525
this looks like shit, Gratuitous Space Battles or something. fucking hell

>>717831353
i'm sure you can get the game for free somewhere, it's also on steam. i don't think there's switchport of all things

>>717828092
Songs of conquest

>>717831470
It's some rts, isometric games and Battlezone 98 Redux that Switch library is missing

>>717831353
If only there was a clue in op's post or image that could maybe help narrow it down... Or maybe in the replies... Hmmmmm

>>717831618
only some? good for you.

>>717826846
I'm still not sure if this image intention was to be anti or pro PC

>>717831684
damn I miss mwo why'd you have to remind me of it

>>717831775
It's missing deus ex 1, system shock 1 and morrowind that had honorary console port for xbox

>>717826846
What's bottom left?

>>717831775
It depends on whether you're pro or anti PC in the first place

none of these threads bring up NOX, even though that had the killer PVP. It's the only Hack n Slash game that took PVP seriously

Pre rendered or similar style graphics are the top most ultimate form of soul and happiness. You just get fucking instantly happy when you see some fucking sick ass buildings and backgrounds. Gaming used to be so fucking blessed.

>>717832085
Nox got entirely upstaged by Diablo 2, but it's a good thing because that way it didn't get a huge fanbase of retards.

>>717832203
So many HnS games have come that are diablo clones, like PoE, yet none of them have even attempted to recreate the PVP gamemodes of NOX. Real shame

Aesthetics is genuinely alien to normalfags. A real conversation I’ve had
>me: i think AoE2 looks better
>friend: but it’s 2D and pixelated, AoE4 is 3D and realistic

>>717824229 (OP)
Have you looked at factorio for even 2 seconds

>>717831932
the only reason for console is the much higher initial cost pc has. that's it

Underrail is cool.. the rts do look better tho

>>717824229 (OP)
no they deteriorated because theyre shit. it has nothing to do with your brain making up for shortcomings.

>>717832331
tbf, Nox is not really a Diablo clone.
It's just an isometric action adventure.
However, wasn't Nox originally conceived to be MP only or something?

Dungeon Keeper, while not really isometric game, will get a mention on this thread.

>>717832917
NOX has pretty cool singleplayer, and story was OK too. But yes, I'd say it's strong point definitely was the multiplayer. You could play co-op quests (sort of like online campaign for better gear) online, or the multiplayer (where you start fresh, and pick up gear on the map, so it was arena pvp)

best tw

>>717831910
Looks like Divine Divinity

How long will retards parrot old good new bad without even trying new video games
https://youtu.be/D0d2gC0zzkU
https://youtu.be/o7TXKZ1C0FU
Both of these look a billion times better than OP and have the same gritty "3d assets rendered to 2d" style

>>717834460
>factorio
>new
banquet for fools looks kinda cool, but kinda unnerving
>ea
no thanks. i've already got 10 ea games that will never finish

>>717824429

Was thinking the same thing, also dungeon keeper, or black and white, 25 fucking years ago nobody repeated that.

>>717835180
>factorio
>new
Space Age came out last year and the game itself is a mere 5 years old. What sort of retarded doublethink is this?

>>717824429
>Majesty's formula
You mean an idle clicker? People really are just nostalgic for easier games.

>>717834460
>tranime poster saw op post and thought "umm yeah, that says new bad old good"

>>717836792
>visuals in games have deteriorated
>no they clearly haven't
>NOOOO STOP LEAVE ME ALONE
Even technique has improved. Games like disco elysium and deadfire render light against an invisible 3D map so it reflects on a 2D image.

>>717836792
many such cases

>>717837395
>>no they clearly haven't
No?

>>717837463
How does this look worse than AoE2? Are you retarded?
https://youtu.be/oiep0wYfQPQ

>>717837690
>How does this look worse than AoE2?
Who is tranime poster quoting?

>>717829714
Shame they decide to desecrate Disciples corpse again

yeah it's time to ignore all these tranime posters

>>717837759
Dude, the OP is literally stating that the low budget 3D render into 2D sprite work style of olde is better, why pretend to be retarded? This art style has objectively evolved and improved. Anyone who's eyes aren't full of shit and aids can see that.

>>717837891
Sister, op made the claim that visuals in video games in general have deteriorated.
Nowhere did he compare AoE2 to owlschlop.

>>717837848
You can't create an astroturfing hugbox on a website with free speech. You'll just look dumber and dumber. These things happen because you've ignored it for so long, anyone who's done the bare minimum of playing a few new games every now and then is gunna shit all over you. Nostalgia has always been for newfags and tourists.

>>717838037
>Sister, op made the claim that visuals in video games in general have deteriorated
And they objectively haven't. Your cherry picked examples can't even compare to recent games now.

>>717838054
nice copypasta, it would work even on reddït

There's Sweet Transit, which I think I've never ever seen mentioned on /v/. Fun game, not without flaws but still fun, if you're into trains especially.

>>717838250
wtf are those bridgeds? are you mad?

>>717838460
>are you mad?
I might be.

>>717838157
Damn I recognized this instantly.

>>717838539
oh... carry on then

>>717824229 (OP)
Is there really no modern-ish game to replace Majesty? I just want to watch the NPC do stupid shit in an atmospheric world, without intrusive build orders like in the most Dungeon Keeper clones.

>>717838126
>And they objectively haven't.
Because AoE2 vs Deadfire?

>>717838250
does it always look so brown and dull?

>>717839105
Of the four examples given, there isn't a single game made before 2010 that looks better. Not a single one.

>>717839448
Tranime poster, you realize this isn't about one game but a general trend, right?

>Another great feature of Age of Empires: Definitive Edition is the fact that you can zoom in and out of the game. Now, how is that possible on 2D assets without exploding into a pixel storm? By adding “Zoom Levels“. Basically, every asset in the game has been rendered 3 times. This way, the game can be displayed crisp and clear in every supported resolution. From HD all the way up to 4K (and beyond)
>This also explains why the game is such an incredibly large download (17GB!) compared to the original (300MB).

https://www.forgottenempires.net/age-of-empires-definitive-edition-is-it-a-3d-or-a-2d-game

>>717839117
Kinda, yeah. It's not too colorful.

>>717839684
Yeah and the general trend is projected upwards. Most old games look really bad. You can't cherry pick a handful of examples, most of which don't even look good, and say le gaming had fallen. Sturgeons law says that 90% of all things are shit. Maybe you should stop being part of the 90%.

>>717839842
>You can't cherry pick a handful of examples
Like you did?
In reality it goes further than just visuals, audio design has fallen too, but it's obvious you're not ready for that convo.

>>717839930
>Like you did
Even if we pick mediocre literally who games, they just look better in general now. Games are designed for upwards of 1440p and OLED monitors at 120+fps.
https://youtu.be/F-RyxYcxSQ4
There's a good chance a not insignificant portion of /v/ cant even properly view the level of detail in new games on their blurry 1080p monitors.

>>717840307
>Even if we pick mediocre literally who games, they just look better in general now.
lol
>>717824570
>>717824878

>>717824229 (OP)
>games look worse now
>btw I'm on a voodoo 2 and a crt

>>717824429
I think the issue with trying to make games like this in the modern industry is that all modern developers attempt to design their games in a manner where its "solved" in a sense
for instance the output of a production building will be tailored to specifically cover the upkeep of a certain number of other buildings of units
the charm of the old games was that you were given a box of tools and were left to figure things out and cobble something together, the imprecision of the design and unpredictability of how exactly the game would react was part of what made that interesting even on repeat playthroughs
even before you factor in that something made today will be too uniform and safe in style and design to fit the standards set by the vidya education system the project is typically failed from the start

>>717840362
>my literal one man shovelware made on a zero dollar budget looks slightly worse than what was considered cutting edge 25 years ago
>oh and since I don't even like video games, it has zero appeal to me without the art style but I have zero self awareness and will continue playing slop
woah dude, just woah

>>717840549
Who is sister quoting?

>>717838185
Ah so you must of came from there

>>717840407
>the charm of the old games was that you were given a box of tools and were left to figure things out and cobble something together
Uh no, there was an extremely formulaic way to create 3d rendered art to 2D, the IWD artist wrote like a whole book on this in his portfolio

>>717840627
no u

>>717840407
>the charm of the old games was that you were given a box of tools and were left to figure things out and cobble something together
That's not how majesty works, it's just extremely easy

>>717824229 (OP)
It's simple:
>Nu/devs are incapable of coding, they only use tools and reproduce generic, formulaic "industry standarts" taught to them in "academia" (e.g.: "realism" vs original artstyle).
>They don't budget their resources (e.g.: clever rendering), so they get stuck in a vicious cycle of trying to implement high fidelity and being forced to downscale.

>>717840748
>They don't budget their resources (e.g.: clever rendering
>>717837395

>>717840821
>>They don't budget their resources (e.g.: clever rendering

>>717840731
Kidpix is the free-form jazz of photoshop bro, you just don't get it

>>717841093
why post rtx vid

>>717841239
New good.

>>717841093
lmao

>>717840731
Show me how you pwn the northern expansion missions, tranime poster.

>>717841441
How is this good? This is ugly and lazy

>>717841597
nigga, how dense are you

>>717840821
>>717841093
Clever rendering as in: not trying to resolve 100% detail/geometry at distances and velocities make it impossible to discern it. Games struggle because nu/devs just throw up high fidelity without regard to performance effectively kneecapping themselves. Just like filesizes are inflationary, so is computational waste.

Hardware (or today rather: backdoored crippleware) requirements could be signficantly reduced, if nu/devs cherished the lessons of optimization learned between 1990-2012.

>>717841683
ooh right.. sorry my bad

>>717841719
>that make it impossible*
Bleh.

>>717841719
Factorio and Disco Elysium run on a toaster.

>>717841891
Now ask yourself why that is. What's the difference between games like Factorio and triple-ass slop? It's not the genre that matters.

>>717826204
A cool thing about Commandos 2 was that the maps were prerendered four times and that you could rotate the view by 90 degrees, so the devs could design more natural-looking locations without having to put everything front towards the camera.

>>717841719
>Hardware (or today rather: backdoored crippleware) requirements could be signficantly reduced, if nu/devs cherished the lessons of optimization learned between 1990-2012.
That's a pipedream. You'll have better chance astral projecting your consciousness to another astronomical body

>>717842006
>What's the difference between games like Factorio and triple-ass slop
It's not made for a console. Can't be outsourcing because it was programmed by a literal gypsy.

>>717842264
Also, I just realized, the factorio dev listed all the games he played
https://twinsen.info/web-files/Played%20games.txt
Seems like a pretty diverse spread.

>>717837827
How many times it happened at this point?

>>717824429
majesty 2 is actually HARD
it filtered YALL

>>717824229 (OP)
To make things look good in spite of limitations, you need a good art direction, and for that you need an artist. And by artist, I mean an actual practitioner of the arts, not some graduate who thinks xe's hot shit. I think we're fucked on that front.

>>717843190
>Run game at 120FPS
>it doubles the spawn rate and slows down your building speed
Nice game faggot.

>>717842006
the dev has a clear passion for programming and optimisation

>>717842626
They just did it again! This makes a third.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2808560/Disciples_Domination

>>717842609
>no VTMB, Deus Ex, System Shock, Prey
>no planescape, baldur's gate, arcanum
>no legacy of kain, tomb raider, bloodrayne, devil may cry
>Fallout 3/4 but no TES
>all those literally who indie games
>7k hours in WoW
pretty shit for a pc gamer ngl

>>717842264
>>717842609
I am sure he also picked up 90% of his coding skills on his own, and didn't incur debt in a degree mill. Good tech is result of scarcity/necessity and discipline -- good tech allows high fidelity and attention to detail.

>>717843713
God damn it.

>>717824229 (OP)
It's the lack of artistic vision

>>717843731
That's a lot of triple-ass slop and modern-hindsight "classics" that only shine in comparison to triple-ass slop. Nevertheless: he optimizes his game, whereas triple-ass slop is outsourced diarhea that's padding crippleware sales.

>>717843731
>no VTMB, Deus Ex, System Shock, Prey
>no planescape, baldur's gate, arcanum
>no legacy of kain, tomb raider, bloodrayne, devil may cry
All those games are shit and also his next game is wow inspired apparently. I have about 45 days game time in wow before I quit, everyone played it that's not a zoomer larping.

>>717839751
That's how RCT's zoom worked

>>717843713
>different dev but looks the same as Liberation
>following fake lore from a fake Disciples game
>still no 6 niggas in 2 rows
>still with the art style that doesn't look like Disciples
What the fuck dude
I will never ask for a sequel ever again
This is some monkey's paw shit, I want off this ride

>>717824878
Muted colours can work. But you have to work really hard to make things stand out. They failed here massively becouse everything blends to backround.
You want to things that matter stand out from backround. You make things to contrast against each others. Muted backround and sharp buildings and pawns. Kinda like they do in manga when it's just unspecified wilderness backround. It just disappears in backround. But characters are sharp and in focus.
But even then you have to work hard on models to make them stand out from each others. Like in good movies and games. You recognise character from siluete alone.

Granted it would be way easier to do it with colours. Colour code every building and pawn. Make it stand out. One look and you would know what is what.

>>717842264
They ported Factorio to Switch 1 and it runs really well

>>717844187
>I have about 45 days game time in wow
Is she/her bragging?

>>717844362
No thems just the facts. The only thing I have more hours in than WoW is fightcade.

PC Strategy games have unmatched and ageless 2D SOVL.

>>717844450
This unironically looks like absolute shit.

>>717826912
There is the Nebuchadnezzar game. Do any of you mongoloids look at anything but AAA games?

>>717844614
And it's worse than games made 20 years earlier, did you even play it?

>>717844523
Have you considered the fact that your opinion doesn't matter because you're a brown or black nigger?

>>717831932
>initial cost of entry
>you actually own your games
>all games for system guaranteed to work without any fixes needed on your end
>acceptable to have in your living room and won't scare away girls
>better exclusives

>>717844335
Doom runs on literally everything but it's a PC game because thats what its designed for. (Until 2016 anyways)

>>717844812
Slavs ain't white bruh, I'll take the darkest monkey in the hood over any slav

>>717844264
And the best part is, this one is being developed by a studio that brought us such timeless masterpieces as Garfield Kart, The Dungeon Of Naheulbeuk and Terraforming Mars.
Truly, that is not dead which can eternal lie.

>>717844939
Not an argument.

>>717845078
Dude disciples was always terrible. It's good that games like these are dying. Unironically.

>>717845235
I will be the first to admit that both D1 and D2 were style over substance and had a lot of room to improve, but also kill yourself retard

>>717844874
Doom 2016 play like utter ass with a controller.