Thread 720397790

His crime? Loving his family.

>>720397790 (OP)
Him manipulating Verso into destroying the painting at the end was extremely based.

>>720398103
He didn't manipulate Verso at all. He reaffirmed what Verso had always wanted. He says one thing to PVerso and it's expressing sympathy for what Aline did to him. He barely could acknowledge his sons ghost.

How did they write a character this fucking well? Probably my favorite video game character in the last 10 years. He is so nuanced with so many layers to peel away and analyze, and most importantly he was awful and truly selfish things, but we still sympathize and care for him regardless. How the FUCK did they do it?

>>720398263
His conversation with Alicia making it clear she's lying, showing a near death Aline, and giving him easy access to painted Verso's soul was all a final gambit to get Verso on his side.

>>720398541
Because they didn’t just write a "character," they wrote a person. Every decision he made was informed by fear, guilt, and a genuine-if terribly warped-desire to protect what he loved. They gave him no easy outs. No heroic redemption. Just raw, unfiltered consequence wrapped in tragedy. It's that balance-making him detestable one moment and heartbreakingly human the next-that makes him so unforgettable. This is what happens when writers respect their audience enough to tell the truth, even if it's ugly.

>>720397790 (OP)
Being a control obsessed freak, mourn the way I tell you to or you are wrong

>>720400502
>mourn together as a family
>watch your wife and youngest child rot away in their delusional fantasy world where they don't have to face consequences or grief
Not exactly a hard choice when you want to protect your loved ones.

>>720397790 (OP)
wtf >>720399770

>>720397790 (OP)
He wasn't always selfish, it's like people forget how mind fucked he repeatedly was by the time we meet him. Verso a good boy who didn't do NUTHIN.

>>720397790 (OP)
>His crime?
Not knowing how to tard wrangle his wife.

>>720397790 (OP)
His crime? Having the best boss theme OAT.

>>720398856
I still think the ballsiest move the game made was establishing Gustave as a traditionally likeable and virtuous protagonist that most people could easily get behind only to kill him off a 1/3rd of the way into the game to replace him with a manipulative and morally grey opportunist who’s actually on the same page as the main antagonist and betrays the party at the end.

A lot of games in general nowadays don’t have the balls to let you play as someone who’s truly morally questionable rather than just an anti-hero at worst.

>>720401321
And even fewer games then could make you love and care about that character. Yet they did it.

>>720400641
Aline would have probably finished grieving and left the canvass on her own if he hadn't interfered.
She's more skilled at painting than he is, so when her inferior told her what to do she had a Woman Moment and refused to leave out of spite.

Are we posting "he was right"s in this thread?

His crime? Wanting a crumb of redhead footslut pussy

>>720401657
Aline was in the Canvas for 67 years. When does that stop being acceptable? How is it fair to paint your dead son back to life and make him immortal? To force this ghost to watch as it tears apart a family mourning the real Verso's death?

>>720401815
>Aline was in the Canvas for 67 years.
67 years after Renoir came to pull her out. We will never know how long she would have stayed if he hadn't pissed her off.

>>720401657
He should have painted himself an Aline with bigger tits and she would have come back just to ruin his fun

>>720401831
This boss fight kicked mother fucking ass

>>720401976
Very true

>>720401976
Reminds me of that shitty isekai drawing manga where MC can draw anything into existence except people
But he meets an old dragon who transforms into an old lady so he draws that dragon and has her transform into a younger, hotter version of the old lady.
I should find the page, it made my dick hurt.

>>720402094
When the game demanded i perfect dodge everything or get permakilled i was filtered

>>720401976
>Alicia, go tell your mother that I painted a younger version of her in another canvas, with giant fucking milkers and a phat ass!

>>720402179
You can only parry Simon because of his second phase combos

>>720402242
Oh thats just shit design then, i dodged everything else in the entire game up to that point, parry was a meme

>>720401321
Iunno, just made a bunch of people drop the game. I didn't give a fuck about continuing after Gustave died. Made it one cutscene before uninstalling.

>>720397790 (OP)
He literally spent the last 67 years genociding generations of people in the canvas. How come people seem to forget that. He killed a lot of people. Yeah it was for his family but it gets to a point. Worst part is if you want to turn around and say well they aren't real, then almost half of the game becomes worthless. They shot themselves in the foot with this one

>>720398856
I think this is why a lot of people like Arthur as well. When you see his pain it doesnt feel like a plot point, but like you are watching a real person go through stuff

>>720402639
That was painted Renoir made by Aline to protect the Monolith/her/the canvas. The real Renoir was the Curator, hiding in the manor. Remember?

>>720402760
>>720402639
Oh wait I misread what you were saying. I see. You're correct. Then again, those people were only created by Aline to make the Canvas feel like reality. They shouldn't have existed to begin with.

>>720402446
You are the first retard I have heard say this.

>>720402760
Real Renoir/The Curator was the cause of the Gommage. Painted Renoir was just Aline’s personal bodyguard.

>>720403505
Isn't the Gommage painless? He wanted it all gone all at once. He wasn't a monster. He was doing what was necessary.

>>720403721
It is yeah.

One thing that bugs me though is that Renoir doesn’t have a Gommage attack during his final boss fight, which is weird because Simon of all people has one.

>>720403813
Just a case of secret optional boss being stronger than final boss for gameplay related reasons even though Renoir is canonically stronger.

>>720397790 (OP)
Ignore the genocide in the closet

>>720402341
Dude, Counterattack can do more damage than a 9 AP move

>>720403813
Because he's primarily fighting his daughter, he's holding back most of the fight and there is no way he would use a nuke on her

>>720397790 (OP)
>thread after thread of people trying to figure out what the characters are doing
You know the storywriters are shit when this happens

>>720397790 (OP)
Why did he abandon his kids?

>>720406957
He can't fuck those

>>720398541
Bitter maellefags will think he's a badly written character because they disagree with him

>>720400502
>wife, do not kill yourself
>STOP TRYING TO CONTROL ME
I really hope you patch things up with your dad anon.

>>720397790 (OP)
Teaching children how to use pain heroin

>>720408094
Unironically what Joseph Anderson said

>>720401657
>Aline would have probably finished grieving and left the canvass on her own if he hadn't interfered.
You base this off of absolutely nothing. Aline herself said that every day has a price, and she went in in the worst possible mental state to delude herself into believing a false reality. She wasn't even grieving, she was pretending Verso was still alive.

>>720402639
>Worst part is if you want to turn around and say well they aren't real
nobody said that but clea, and she's psychotic

>>720408237
I don't know why you expect me to know who that is.

>>720398541
His character is completely nonsensical

>I want to die
Then use paint magic to kill yourself
>I need to kill everyone else too
Lunatic

>>720408598
>I want to die
Not his primary motivation by a long shot, I recommend playing the game

>>720408598
>Then use paint magic to kill yourself
He doesn't have paint magic. He's a painted copy, not a real person. However, his sister was still able to kill herself just fine.

>>720408094
PLAY THE FUCKING PIANO

>>720408598
>Then use paint magic to kill yourself
Even if he had paint magic to kill himself with he's literally not allowed to. The whole point to him is that Aline cheat engined him to live forever without considering his feelings

>>720408748
Clea seemed to have imbued painted clea with some ability to paint.

>>720408678
His primary motivation is labile mumbo jumbo, still nonsensical.

He was a good character in that he had an intriguing mystery following him and his lines and voicework was good.

>>720408272
Painted Renoir was created to have Aline's mindset and he says what he wants is a lifetime with his family, not one with the family torn apart. If not for the Shattering, Aline would have already had that by the time the game begins.

>>720397790 (OP)
If you wouldn't sacrifice your family for hundreds or thousands of lives, you're not human.

>>720408094
No one says he's badly written, even if they disagree with his ending.

>>720397790 (OP)
just played this for the first time and i didn't understand the portal showing aline (why does it show her coughing and looking sick when she's actually frozen while in the painting?) or how verso jumping through it led him to the fragment of real verso's soul. otherwise good stuff.

>>720409286
Is the portal not after you force-eject her out of the painting at the end of Act 2? I assume she was essentially "hungover" which is why Renoir loses his shit when she just jumps back into the painting

>>720409507
the portal was right after the fight with curator-renoir at the end of the game. aline helps in the fight but idr her being shown to leave afterwards.

>>720409286
>why does it show her coughing and looking sick when she's actually frozen while in the painting?
We don't know exactly how it works. You can see Aline and Renoir completely frozen during the epilogue, but Clea walks and talks while having the eye-paint-thing. It could depend on how firmly they've planted themselves in the painting for example

>>720408948
>His primary motivation is labile mumbo jumbo, still nonsensical
It's pretty straightforward.

>>720409003
Merely your headcanon, I'm afraid. Aline was unwilling to face reality even BEFORE she created a fake family to use to lie to herself. She wasn't coming back willingly.

>>720398541
people say this isn’t a JRPG when it literally has the “old guy who knows everything but wont tell you because reasons” trope

>>720410059
>people say this isn’t a JRPG
Yeah, retards

>>720409003
>the Shattering
Wait a second... Aline really IS Marika, huh?

>>720409618
Ah, I always forget to re-watch the ending and figure out where she went but yeah, I don't think the game shows or tells her leaving a second time

>>720409286
After Renoir is defeated she leaves the canvas, probably because when she woke up in the real world she was about to die. She STILL went back in to make sure Renoir didn't win because she's a junkie.

>>720410383
>She STILL went back in to make sure Renoir didn't win because she's a junkie.
You don't understand women.

>>720410383
I love PRenoir but he belongs in Mid. I'd be curious where PAlicia belongs though

>>720410484
She woke up, falling apart phyically, saw that her daughter had succumbed to the same delusion as her, saw that her husband was acting on the lesson she herself taught him to protect your surviving family, and STILL risked her life to make sure her dead son skinner box didn't get thrown away. What I didn't do is call this behavior unusual, because of course I understand women.

>>720410574
Mid, she's literally driven by only instinct

>>720410574
pAlicia is no villain. She is a victim of her mother's woman moment..

>>720408598
Why didn't Maelle just let him die in her ending? Why did she force him to keep living against his will when he's clearly been repeatedly mindbroken for centuries, knowing he's just a painted copy of a dead guy and every moment of his existence causes more pain and suffering for other people?

>>720410383
fixed

>sparing painted alicia and picking verso's ending
>erasing painted alicia and picking maelle's ending

>>720410484
I want a "sorry you understood women the wrong way" edit now

>>720410614
No. She was having an argument with her husband for 67 years and she just HAD to have the final word. It's literally just about spite.

>>720410760
>alicia
>retaliating
She's the one who fucked everything up. First, at least.
>>720410821
You know, I feel you.

>>720410748
He's basically the only reason why she'd stick around and she probably grew to love him even more after getting her memories back
>you're not the real verso, you're you and you're real to me

>>720410748
>I can fix him

>>720410760
>>720402639

>>720402639
He did it for the greater good. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

>>720410908
>5 minutes later...

>>720410898
She was a child who got tricked by the Writers. That's hardly fair.

>>720411014
kek thank you

Why did Verso simp for Aline again? She's not his mom

>verso was 33
>maelle was 16
>clea was ???
>there's phantom flash backs of the mother teaching all three children to paint at once
I'm thinking it's just to show that she was a firm teacher to all of them but Verso's tombstone does open up some weird theories on how time worked in the "real" world

>>720411078
>>720410908
she knows he isn't real Verso (same as him) but she just pretends because she can't cope

>>720411124
He knows that they aren't his real family, but he still feels like they are. Notice how awkward he is anytime he's around real Renoir.

>>720411149
Verso was 26 at time of death

>>720411078
Oh, fuck, that's right. I forgot about that absolute nosedive she takes there. She really is just saying she wants Real Verso back in the worst way possible

>>720411209
Oh and Maelle being 16 doesn't mean Alicia was are you stupid anon

>>720411156
yeah but I mean he fought his actual family for her sake
and iirc it's not like when the painted dessendres learned the truth they got a memory shot like maelle did since they're not from outside the canvas

>>720411273
Not to mention how just before that she slashes at Verso's soul fragment with her sword

>>720411209
>>720411281
I'm a lot more tired than I thought I was, shit

>>720411273
Her whole ending is cope just like Aline was coping 67 years living in the painting. Even bringing back Gustave, he didn't gommage so she just painted a new one rather than bringing him back.

>>720411124
She is as much of a mom as he can possibly have, and she lovingly designed his brain complete with "Aline is my mom" installed.

Reddit also loves Verso and Renoir, I guess most people are just wrong and evil, makes sense with how the world is.

>>720411273
She's in bad shape. She has more reason to want the canvas than Aline since she bears guilt on top of grief.
>>720411331
>STOP comforting that tortured soul and call me Maelle right now, my flesh and blood brother alongside whom I was raised.

>>720411687
>he goes to reddit
kek look at this fucking faggot

>>720411705
It's time to stop painting, he says and reaches out his hand. He's lying again. He's about to lead the soul fragment to the slaughterhouse so he can kill himself.

>>720402639
>Worst part is if you want to turn around and say well they aren't real, then almost half of the game becomes worthless
That's the point, dude.
It is worthless, it's a video game. They're not real either way.

>>720398541
It's actually embarrassing how E33 fans expose themselves as having never read a novel or watched a great film when they post stuff like this.

>>720411768
You guys should go there, you'll find people agree with you about thie ending.

>>720397790 (OP)
>His crime? Loving his family.
Unfortunately, that's the crime that many dad's face. They are often persecuted by the wives for this and have their children brainwashed and used against them. It's a common tale, at least in America, and perhaps even France.

>>720411795
I mean, the soul fragment probably knew that and would probably be on board with that instead of being trapped in a Sys32 folder doing something he doesn't enjoy for an unknown amount of time

>>720409812
That's fucking right mom, don't worry.

>>720411861
I'll just take your word, expert redditor, since I'm not interested in going there. Enjoy your visit here.
>>720411795
babby Verso never wanted to paint, and only enjoyed being there because he got to play with his family, who at this point hadn't come to play with him in centuries. It was in fact time to stop painting.

>>720411512
This is why I can't consider painted people real, if a 14 year old girl can just delete you, recreate you or even make a new you you're not real you're just the painters playthings.

>>720411915
I imagine every canvas has a piece of the authors soul, you know "he really put his soul into it" kinda thing. And it makes 0 sense that the fragment would be tortured by it, I imagine it's the part of the artist that loves creating art. The reason it's sad is because its creation is being destroyed by Renoir, PVerso and Clea, not because it's "stuck painting".

>>720411835
>That's the point, dude.
This is correct. Act 1 gets the player invested in the world to better help them understand why Aline and Alicia want to stay in and protect the canvas
>it's a video game
The question isn't, "do you think they're real". The question is, "do the painters think the paintings are real" and that's where the whole debate regarding the omnicide comes from. It's how Verso took responsibility for what PRenoir warned him of
>are you ready to pay the consequences and plunge them into nothingness

>>720412009
Someone stops mattering because of who has power over it? If some young god shows up in our world with these powers suddenly every living thing just loses their value.

>>720412095
>The reason it's sad is because its creation is being destroyed by Renoir, PVerso and Clea,
Headcanon. He states multiple times he's sad because he misses playing with his family, something they've all moved on from. Additionally we know Verso didn't want to be a painter and only told his parents this when he was older. babby verso had fun regardless when he got to spend time with his family, but that time is over. He's abandoned, alone, and says "yes" when asked if he's tired of it. This is explicit.

>>720412095
I would think the soul fragment would stay happy in the canvas too -- even if Real Verso wanted to do something else, he was clearly passionate about that canvas. I think at one point there's a soul fragment phantom that didn't sound particularly happy about everyone scribbling all over his shit but I'm not 100% I'm remembering right

>>720412227
Honestly yeah, I'd consider humanity less if some godlike entity suddenly showed up and could change everything about a person. If someone can just rewrite what you are, then you are nothing.

>>720412095
You can talk with his soul through the whole game and he basically misses playing with Clea when they were kids and hates whats become of the painting.

>>720412227
nta but if a demiurge revealed itself to be Earth's designer, I think I'd feel at least a little hollow for it

>>720412294
He's tired of painting because his world is being destroyed, he was fine with it before that. He asks us to help him stop Cleas creations from destroying the world. That's explicit. He wants people to have fun in the canvas, and they will again in Maelles ending.

>>720412378
You're exactly the same as you were before, if something outside of you has power over you doesn't change who you are, your philosophy is weird if not outright scary. Do you consider children to be worth less than adults since they are weaker?

>>720412359
Young boy: Another Expedition… 33…
Gustave: Who are you?
Young boy: Me? A dream, an illusion… I don’t really remember. What I did all of this for… I miss… laughing with everyone…
Gustave: Who are you talking about?
Young boy: Re… Cle… What were their names? I… Why do I forget… Everything… Is washed away… (the boy has gone silent)

Young boy: It’s you… I know you…
Gustave: What do you mean, you know us?
Young boy: I’ve seen you countless times… Yet I’ve never grasped your essence. You are not from here…
Gustave: Our essence?
Young boy: I can feel it… Familiar yet so different. Like everything she created. Like the creature of darkness at the end of this path. It is but one of her many creations. Beautiful, in its own way, but deadly. Her favourite combination.
Gustave: You mean the Paintress? Why is she doing this?
Young boy: I don’t know. I wish I knew. It is not like her. She was my best friend. But she outgrew us. She had more important things, more important friends. She left me behind. The boy has gone silent.

Young boy: Isn’t it beautiful here… Her paintings are always astonishing… Yet, I wish she would understand…
Lune: Understand what?
Young boy: Just… What it means… For me… To paint…
Lune: What do you mean?
(The boy has gone silent.)

Young boy: He is here… Doing… What needs to be done. What I can’t do anymore…
Lune: What can’t you do anymore?
Young boy: Yes… Unless… No… Maybe I should never stop… But…
(The boy has gone silent.)

He's not happy.
>>720412467
>He's tired of painting because his world is being destroyed, he was fine with it before that.
Your headcanon, I'm afraid. He'd been abandoned by his family for centuries before the fracture and says multiple times how sad that made him.

>>720412378
Yes he misses people having fun in the canvas. He also gives you quests to destroy Cleas minions who are destroying his world. Why would he do that if he just wants to die?

>>720412634
>verso grew up feeling like he had to paint because of his parents expectations
>hurr why doesn't the soul that's a snapshot of him at that age just stop?

>>720412625
>Like the creature of darkness at the end of this path
Random question but where does the lamp master go after Verso shows up?

>>720411687
Only because they are good looking

>>720411020
he killed thousands for the sake of his daughter. this is literally a 14 year olds idea of what a morally grey conflicted character looks like to a tee but when you stop and think about it he's just a psycho

>Why… Why would she paint these things? Eating the world… eating our world… We used to have fun here… Together… I wish… We could still have fun… Sister…

>Expeditioners, creations, gestrals.. Everyone used to pass through here…A place of joy… I miss… laughing with everyone…

>This place was made to bring joy, not pain. Yet, pain is everywhere… Like the creature of darkness at the end of this path. It is one of her many creations. Beautiful, in its own way, but deadly. Her favorite combination.

And the most telling:

>Please find her… And ask her why she kills them all…
>[We found her.]
>Really? What did she say?
>[That she is doing this for you. To respect what you created with her.]
>But… But… That’s not… What I wanted… I never…
>Please… Maybe you can do it… Stop her paintings from erasing any more… Be careful…
>[After defeating the boss]
>You did it… Thank you… Thank you… This is a song she used to play to me, when we were together…

Clearly he wants them to stop destroying his world.

>>720412227
It depends on why they were created and whether that why is meaningful. The painted characters don't have a meaningful why.

>>720412570
Except painters can change what you are, Maelle could repaint Gustave to suddenly love her instead of Sophie and it would become reality despite going against everything Gustave stands for. It's not about being weaker, painters can just toy and change painted people however they want and I can't consider that true life, they're fictional creations.

>>720412916
He did it to control his wife, his daughter wasn't even involved when he started murdering people by the hundreds of thousands. He just wanted his wife to come home, by force.

>>720412863
No answer given but presumably lune and sciel hold it off until maelle can jump down and they escape.

>>720408678
Gusto is so fucking strange

>>720404240
Renoir's also probably nearly burnt out by that point of the game but then again he was clearly prepared to send out at least 20 more gommages

>>720413017
Their lives are as meaningful as any humans life is.
>>720413020
The only character in the game that has been "painted over" is PClea and it's completely obvious that she was, she's broken inside, part of her old self is breaking through wanting to die because of what Clea did to her.

>>720412968
>only thing he enjoyed was playing with his family, primarily his sister
>doesn't like watching said sister destroy it
this must mean he wants to paint eternally in solitude.

>>720413020
>their brains can be changed so they're not real
phineas gage.jpg

YOUR thoughts and personality are also a physical part of you that can be changed, even by blunt force trauma.

>>720413134
He's not alone anymore though, people are back and have a chance to be happy now that the murdering and destruction has stopped.

>>720412916
You clearly can't comprehend divinity. Aline staying alive and Alicia becoming a painter would let them create hundreds of other worlds.

>>720412703
>Why does he ask you to stop things from being erased if he wants things to be erased?
>hurr because he was forced to paint (headcanon)

>>720413195
Maelle isn't going to play with him, she's going to fix up the opera house (and nothing else) and play with painted verso.
>>720413249
He doesn't DESIRE that things be erased, but he also doesn't desire to continue painting. He knows what it means to stop painting and still takes Verso's hand.

>>720413249
Exactly, he was not forced, there's literally no one in the canvas forcing him to do anything, he keeps on painting because that's what he likes doing. Him being distraught about people destroying his canvas is pretty fucking explicit. Sure he misses his old friends and that's sad, but he says clearly that he just wants people to have fun again, and not be fucking murdered.

>>720413121
Absolutely not. We have an entire universe to explore. They're stuck in a small island chain the size of the Dodecanese that can't even sustain their current level of technology. Their lives are absolutely meaningless.

>>720413364
>he keeps on painting because that's what he likes doing
>gets asked once to stop, accepts

>>720413071
I like to think Lune and Sciel manage to finish it off because I don't like leaving room for the chance that the lamp master was working with the painted family. It was neat to realize they were never on the same side and quite literally opposing factions

>>720413392
So because their world is smaller their lives don't matter? They seem to think their lives matter, fighting incredibly hard for it, and being happy with their lives when they're not being terrorized by psycho dad.

>>720413121
That's only because she painted over Aline's creation which is supposed to be difficult, you could argue that Maelle would have the same issue but it doesn't change that Aline could change them however she wanted. Plus Gustave (and Sciel's husband) are Maelle's creations since they didn't gommage.

>>720413194
While true it's not dictated by the whims of godlike painters that can just mold you to their whims, and not just their personality but their history, world etc.

>>720413364
The painted characters are like LLMs with specific prompts. They can occasionally step outside their programming but will stick to it at a fundamental level.

>>720413364
>no one's forcing him to paint
>but verso giving him the chance to stop is murdering him
kek histrionic faggot

>>720413351
Why is she guiding the faded boy into the opera house?

>>720413418
>It's time to stop painting
Is that how you ask? He's telling him, and it's pretty fucking vague what he means.
>Get over here so I can slit your throat
Is what he means.

>>720413438
>they were never on the same side
Referring to Nevrons in general, not just the LM specifically here

>>720413512
The faded boy is verso, verso has blue eyes. That's not the faded boy.
>>720413532
The soul knows what it means for him to stop painting. Stop being dishonest.

I should really get around to playing this game, I played the first hour then left for vacation and never picked it back up.

>>720413491
Aline can definitely not change them however she wanted. Did you forget the entire game? She's literally being attacked by expeditioners for 67 years because she can't communicate with them what is going on.

>>720397790 (OP)
Yeah, such a great dad. As long as you ignore his entire family being a complete mess.

>>720413512
Because that was the one apprentice who didn't learn of Gustave's death

>>720413501
He can stop painting whenever he wants, Verso TELLS him it's time to stop painting. And is intentionally vague and manipulative as usual. He's not telling the fragment
>It's time you stop painting forever, let's go die together.

>>720413467
They think that way because they've been programmed to think that way. Aline couldn't have populated Lumiere without the painted characters having the instinct to survive and reproduce. The canvas is still not suited for that purpose.
Human nature is not compatible with a painted canvas. Eventually you become like Verso and decide to kill yourself. The canvas is a prison.

>>720413621
...Because she was trapped at the top of the monolith by Renoir.

>>720413671
His family was (presumably) fine until a recent tragedy

>>720413683
Wtf is up with these faceblind retards?

>>720397790 (OP)
he did nothing wrong, painted characters arent real

>>720413671
The only issue his family has is Alicia's collaboration with the Writers and the subsequent fallout. The Writers are either the gods of their reality or a revolutionary faction.

>>720413706
Verso wanted to die because he was an immortal grief deposit. The people of Lumiere clearly cherished their lives even with several decades of being left alone by the painters (other than the yearly gommage, of course)

>>720397790 (OP)
He's hot.

>>720413706
They were not programmed, they were humans with free will. Verso was immortal and did horrible things like murdering his lover.

>Maybe I should continue… Maybe… I should continue…
>[Maybe you should.]
>I… Yeah… If that were a choice…

>>720413826
Probably also worth noting the apprentice has blue eyes like Verso and unlike the Mystery Boy

>>720413197
and that's a bad thing

>>720414129
Poor boy thinks it's impossible to stop Clea and Renoir, but we did it in Maelles ending, so he can finally be happy again.

Verso kills him instead.

>>720414185
Especially if we can't agree it's important to take care of the world you already have created. If PVerso, Renoir and Clea wins that's the conclusion, create more worlds and treat them like shit.

>>720413826
>>720413683
That little kid is weird because Maelle seems to imply she was gonna regress Verso into a kid but then he's still there a bit more gray so I guess she just removed his immortality so it's just a random kid??

>>720414296
>he's still there a bit more gray
It's not certain that he's aging in her ending because he does mention that he has white hair and colors it

>>720413936
They "cherished their lives" because they were unified against a threat to their existence. Even then we can see hopelessness setting in and people refusing to have kids.
Once they remove that threat and genocide the Gestrals and Nevrons (whose lives presumably don't matter to you) and settle the entire continent, a behavioral sink sets in.
Their rat utopia doesn't last for hundreds or thousands of generations. The entire simulation reaches its limit in less than 10 generations with a starting population of 100.
That's 360 hours (or a month with breaks) of gameplay for the painters before their simulation turns into an irredeemable dystopia where no one has a life worth living.

>>720414414
They're refusing to have kids because they know they will be murdered by Renoir before their children are even adults.

>>720414285
Aline and her even more deranged successor Maelle treated the canvas like shit. They forced a child's playground into becoming an urban civilization, which is impossible to sustain given the landscape and resources of Verso's world.

>>720414404
Yeah but then what did she mean by this

>>720414526
It's clearly not impossible, they lived happy lives before Renoir and Clea started attacking and killing them. Hell they're even happy at times with Renoirs terror.

>>720414414
That's 240 hours*
Or 8 hours a day for 30 days.
>>720414489
And the same situation would apply when they know there's nothing to live for. They can't get past or even sustain their current level of technology. There's nothing to explore or conquer or discover. All they can do is consume in a loop until they die. Why reproduce in that situation?

>>720414560
I don't think she'd lie about letting grow old -- more that it can mean that her ending could be happening almost immediately after the end of the game and Verso looks that way because he stopped coloring his hair.

>>720414404
>It's not certain that he's aging in her ending
Yeah, I phrased this terribly

>>720414671
What do you mean they can't substain their level of technology? The world can still be explored? Do you think most humans throughout time has found value in life because they can travel through space? People just want a community, safety, friends, family etc.

>>720414572
Because that was the early phase of their civilization with abundant resources, no threats to their existence, and a god-queen guiding their path to a level of comfort that would be impossible for an population their size.
If Aline were immmortal and stayed in the canvas, she would have to introduce a reincarnation system like Verso did with Gestrals to keep the population under control. That leaves them with no civilizational instinct.
That creates a nightmare were people are perpetually forcefully recycled into the same canvas living the same lives over and over again with no prospect of progress and with no hope of ever escaping from their prison.

>>720415097
What is this headcanon? We don't know how their technology works in detail, they can clearly "paint" things to some degree, they created the shield that keeps Nevrons out etc. There's no talk of resources running out. There's nothing about Aline being a god queen either. Absolutely nothing points towards them being reliant on a painter to survive, since they survived for all these years without any help, they were only attacked.

>>720414781
Most humans have some kind of higher goal that they live for. Everyone has some eventual utopia in mind.
If your utopia is community, safety, friends, and family, what happens when the canvas reaches saturation?
Constant genocidal war over resources. Constant jostling for position. No space or necessity for family life.
And with the size of the canvas, it would take them only a few generations to get to that point. The canvas is tiny.

>>720415370
The canvas is bigger than what 99% of humanity through history travels through their lifetime, most people live in their town. There's plenty of space for a lot of people but sure, maybe there will be wars, we've got plenty of those in our world with more space.

>>720415319
We know that they started with knowledge of early 20th century technology without having anywhere near the population necessary to develop it or sustain it or build upon it. They were given trains and some sort of urban set-up (because a small, contained population would have no need for trains). We don't see any of them get sick so I assume there's no disease in this world. Whatever remains of Lumiere survives because of Aline moving New Lumiere away and having Verso create New Lumiere's Dome to keep away the Nevrons after they were created. We know that an early expansionist Lumiere would also have no hope against the Gestrals, so some sort of deal was worked out there too. They're constantly dependent on divine intervention to save them.

>>720413826
It's Lune and Verso's kid. They're wearing wedding bands.

>>720416005
Anon Gestrals are not much of a problem. You beat up countless. The two lived side-by-side for a while.

>>720411795
Anon literally any painter could kill Verso if that was his only desire. He could abandon the team, walk to Lumiere, and ask Renoir to gommage him.

>>720397949
>>720398541
>>720398263
Too bad the Alicia/Maelle ending was the right choice.
You did unlock the "Impregnation of Alicia" ending didn't you?

>>720416302
He wants to "save" the "real" people and kill the "fake" people, dying is a huge bonus because he's a depressed wreck. Depressed people have very distorted views.

>>720415525
We know what the size of the map is. There's space for roughly 20 Lumieres and you have to cut that in half if you leave room for the Gestrals. That means saturation in three generations. You can double or triple that because a lot of people have been gommaged and Maelle presumably isn't skilled enough of a painter to create a population in the thousands, but you're still reaching the limits of the simulation in a few weeks of gameplay. Then it's a behavioral sink (and realistically, it would happen earlier because the population starts collapsing at around half-saturation).
This isn't even counting space for agriculture. Since Sciel was a farmer, presumably a lot of the space around the city was used for farming.
>>720416172
On a completely different island. If you look at the map a lot of the island Old Lumiere is on is uninhabitable. A genocidal war between Gestrals and Lumieriens is inevitable.

>>720416498
He wants to save the "Real" people which includes Versoul, and Versoul getting up just also kills everyone. He's trying to unshackle the world's demiurge.

>>720416549
This is a level of insane headcanon that few can aspire to, congratulations.

>>720416584
Feel free to read the fading boy dialogue again:

https://www.reddit.com/r/expedition33/comments/1lub3qf/i_compiled_the_faded_boys_dialogue_spoilers/

He's not shackled, he wants to continue painting forever, he's just sad because Renoir and Clea are causing destruction and suffering.

>>720416549
You pick Verso because eventually there will be a war between Lumerians and Gestrals? Ok then.

>>720416498
He's a cuck.

>>720416659
He wants to try for the sake of his creations but is clearly not enjoying the fucking process.

>>720416708
He clearly did enjoy it until psycho dad showed up.

>>720416634
Looking at the map and seeing that it obviously can't sustain a lot of people isn't headcanon.
We know that Lumiere ALREADY had issues with corruption and backstabbing while under a constant existential threat. The canvas isn't a world of family and community. It's going to be a zero-sum world of rape and pillage.
>>720416704
I pick Verso because the nature of the canvas makes human civilization unsustainable.
It's the Sims torture scenario where you build walls around it making a painful death inevitable.

None of the women in the game are hot.
>Hairy Asian lesbian
>Creepy scraw y teenager
>Goblin looking whore trying to fuck everything

>>720416870
It's not unsubstainable because it can't grow past a certain point. That's true for our world as well it just takes longer and can get bigger, they'll just have to settle for a smaller population that we would.

>>720416761
And now everything is broken and shitty and will always be broken and shitty, time to unshackle the demiurge of the failed world.

>>720416971
They can rebuild and they will rebuild and make it better than ever before.

We absolutely love Clea here.

>>720417024
They can't rebuild because the process needs a painter. We are talking centuries or millennia just to finish off the "Kill everything on sight" monsters. After that they have extremely limited land with nonsense weather conditions.

>>720417043
Naw

>>720417131
They can rebuild without a painter though.

Also they have Maelle to help, and maybe Aline as well, it's unclear what happens to her in Maelles ending.

>>720416951
No one settles for a smaller population. Everyone wants kids and more stuff and if the only way to have kids is to make space for them by killing other people's kids and taking their stuff, they'll do that. Then you get a dog-eat-dog world where a lot of people give up and stop wanting stuff and stop having kids.
Besides that, there's no way to have a 20th century society without a lot of land and resources creating enough of a surplus to allow for a large specialized population going around maintaining everything. Their technology would immediately collapse and they'd settle into what you'd expect from a population their size. Something like Greek city states.

>>720417043
Clea tortures Versos soul fragment, she's an evil bitch.

>>720417218
>they have maelle to help
She has like 60 canvas-years to live, if that. And you can bet once their second child dies to that painting it's getting erased.

>>720411857
>never read a novel or watched a great film
I notice you weren't able to give an example. That's because the only two characters with the same emotional depth as Verso are Jon Snow and 9S.

>>720417243
Maybe the technology level would go backwards, so what? Technology definitely isn't what makes human life worth living.

>>720417313
You think psycho dad would destroy and kill everyone in there out of spite? It's possible I guess, let's hope he's not that evil.

>>720398541
Personally I think he's one of the most despicable characters ever written, but he is well written.

>>720417392
The painting is a gaping wound with the enslaved soul of his child, it nearly killed his wife and himself, and it would have killed Alicia at that point. It's not worth keeping around.

>>720417469
There is no enslaved soul fucking read the dialogue you dumb retard.

>>720402639
>Aline ruined 7 peoples' lives
Cringe
>Renoir genocided the people of Lumiere
BASED

>>720411020
>He did it for the greater good.
The greater good being his family.
B A S E D

>>720417527
I read the dialogue and the soul is clearly 100% enslaved and tired.
>but it might get less tired after his little sister kills herself

>>720417442
>one of the most despicable characters ever written
in what way?

>>720417469
Why would he teach a child how to "enslave" their own soul in the first place?

>>720417587
He deceives the characters we play as into killing themselves and the people and world they are trying to save. He let's Gustave be killed so he can replace him. He's a fucking worm.

>>720416659
>he wants to continue painting forever
kek he never wanted to start. He just liked playing with his family and feels responsible for the living things inside.

>>720417627
It seems to just be an inevitable process of painting on a canvas, and all painters can just reclaim that portion of themselves whenever they like. Unless they were a fucking corpse.

>>720416761
>He clearly did enjoy it until psycho dad showed up.
67 years pass in the days/weeks/months since Renoir went in and caused the fracture. It's been YEARS in the real world since Clea and Renoir outgrew the canvas, centuries if not millenia since baby verso has been abandoned by his family from his perspective. The thing he complains most about is everyone leaving him, which happened ages before there was any conflict.

>>720417642
I see you lack the ability to read, it's hard to argue with that.

>>720417337
It means that you're not getting the aesthetics of Belle Epoque Paris. More like the harsh slave-based economies of Athens and Sparta with no hope ever of evolving beyond that.
Even Greek city states had plenty of land left to settle. Imagine that level of brutality packed into an area the size of the Dodecanese.

Replaying the game and seeing how many times Verso lies to the group is pretty funny ngl

>>720417627
It seems cruel to leave a piece of your soul alone, trapped in a painting which is probably why in the entire manor, we only see Verso's. The other family members seemed to have destroyed their canvases when they're done - even though they all WANTED to be painters (unlike Verso) and their souls likely didn't mind it as much.

Lune deserved it honestly

>>720417746
>[Others passed through here?]

>Expeditioners, creations, gestrals.. Everyone used to pass through here…A place of joy… I miss… laughing with everyone…

So yeah, he was happy when the people in the canvas was happy.

>>720417767
Verso did not want to be a painter. It's why he stopped and made Piano his focus instead. That's simply a fact of the game.

>>720417798
If the high probability of people doing evil things in the future is enough to just kill off everyone we should just kill ourselves IRL as well. I'll stick with hope that things can be good.

>>720417865
I imagine you can reuse most canvases as often as you want, and the soul just keeps it in motion. Versoul obviously has nobody to return to or to reapply, so once it stops painting the canvas is gone.

>>720417868
>Hairy nasty Asian lesbo.
What did the French mean by this?

>>720417863
>That time Verso accidentally tells the truth and calls Maelle "Alicia".

>>720417892
Uh oh, you left a bit out because you're a lying faggot!

Young boy: Me? A dream, an illusion… I don’t really remember. What I did all of this for… I miss… laughing with everyone…
Gustave: Who are you talking about?
Young boy: Re… Cle… What were their names? I… Why do I forget… Everything… Is washed away… (the boy has gone silent)

The "everyone" refers to his family who have not been in the canvas for YEARS of their time. Centuries or millenia of Verso's.

>>720417936
Feel free to read the dialogue I linked where fading boy says straight up that he used to be happy.>>720417892

>>720417746
The simulation pauses when there's no active painter inside it. Just like a real painting.
33 years pass every 24 hours the painter is inside. So when Francois says Clea hasn't been with him for a century, it means she's been missing for the days of gameplay Aline has spent inside the simulation creating Lumiere plus the two days of gameplay after the Fracture.

>>720417976
>I imagine you can reuse most canvases as often as you want
Possibly but we don't see even one magical canvas in the manor except Verso's. Just the mundane ones on the walls.

>>720417979
>asian lesbian has the MC's child
What did they mean by this

>>720417997
He misses them as well yeah? But he says gestrals, expeditioners.... Learn to fucking read.

Why the fuck would Lune even want Verso as a romantic partner in the Maelle ending?
This headcanon makes no sense to me.
He tried to kill her twice.

>>720418026
The soul inside IS the active painter. It's constantly painting to allow the world to move.

>>720418062
Rape of course

>>720418021
Feel free to read the VERY next line he speaks that clarifies who he means by everyone, queer.
>>720418074
>Who are you talking about?
>Re... Cle...
Answers with his family when asked who he's talking about.

>>720398541
>I'm depressed and suicidal
>OH EM GEE BESTEST MOSTEST WELLEST WRITTENEST CHARACTEREST EVAHHHHH AAAAAAH MY PANTIES ARE WET
Pffffffffft

>>720409812
when you put it like this he's even more right

>>720418117
>Why would a woman have a woman moment?
>>720411014

>>720418117
Because she gets bent over by him after the first time he tried to kill her and the second time she didn't know what he was doing. Also probably a heavy dose of painter will making everyone act how she wants.

>>720409812
Even more ridiculous since mom doesn't even want to be saved, she wants to live out her life in the canvas by her own choice.

>>720398541
They hated this one, boss

>>720417962
You have hope because our reality gives us a lot of opportunity to change things. Imagine you were stuck to whatever is within a 100 mile radius of wherever you currently are. Assuming you're in an urban area, that's certain doom. If you're in a rural area, it's certain doom after a few generations.
Humans need space and lots of it. If there's one thing that gives us hope for a better future, it's how much space we have available. The second we run out of space, hope dies.

>>720402639
>generations of people
They aren't people, they're literally magic golems.

>>720409812
Technically it's three people on the other track.

>Masked Axon has the same weapons as Verso
I'm gonna say the k word...

>>720413512
>dark eyes
That's Verso and Lune's rape baby

Esquie, gestrals, grandis, seems to me Verso found enjoyment in painting these creatures.

>>720418120
That would make Gestral society roughly 250,000 years old and Lumiere roughly 12,000 years old.
That's impossible, which means the painter's soul only sustains the painting. That's what we'd expect from a real painting. Real paintings don't change without external invervention.

>>720418546
>>720418634
>erases the canvas to dodge child support
Dangerously based

Best ending would've been Maelles ending but you kill Verso.

>>720418714
>that's impossible
Why? Gestrals only live as they are painted to, in a ramshackle eternal fight pit. Liumiere was put to canvas by the wife, which is an unknowable amount of time but probably not more than 100 years ago.

>>720410574
PRenoir has the same motivation as RL Renoir, protecting his family.

>>720419157
Imagine going out and killing all your neighbours and then being like
>I did it to protect my family, who knows what they might've been up to.
That doesn't make you a good father.

>>720419420
>who knows
He knows, they were trying to kill his wife, over and over again.

>>720419529
She didn't want to be with him anymore, she wanted to live in the canvas. He couldn't handle it so he starts murdering innocent people. Pretty despicable.

>>720419420
>who knows
They were actively trying to destroy the world. He doesn't touch the people that stay in Lumiere.

>>720418867
Because Francois mentions Clea being gone for slightly more than a century, not tens of thousands of years. Nobody in the canvas uses milennia as the default timescale.
Painters would also become the gods of their own reality if they had this ability. They could paint a simulation, leave it running for thousands of years, and reap the technological benefits.
It only makes sense if it takes painters being in a canvas for hours in the real world having to take frequent breaks and being bored out of their minds to preclude that possibility.
Finally, in 12,000 years, Lumiere would have an excessively high population and the simulation would have collapsed into itself. Aline having a gameplay of around 120 hours fits perfectly.

>>720419589
She wanted to die in the canvas, and he didn't feel like humoring a suicidal woman.

>>720419529
>>720419589
>>720419602
Sorry wrong Renoir. PRenoir could have reasoned with them instead of just attacking. If they refused to listen? Sure then he's justified in fighting them, but he doesn't give them a chance. That makes him evil.

>>720419669
Slowest suicide ever, she lived in there for a full lifetime. She just didn't want to live a full lifetime outsie of it with her garbage husband.

>>720418703
Especially Golgra's fat ass and giant tits

>>720419687
He's convinced one expedition in a century. Having them walk directly into the blade of the guillotine is merciful at this point. Besides, what's he going to convince them of? To stay and help kill everyone else? To fight against Renoir and lose?

>>720419747
Exactly, it probably smelled pretty funky in his little painting room.

>>720419687
Pretty sure he tried with previous expeditions and it didn't go well, he just switched to kill on sight at some point.

>>720419741
Get off of your video game maman

>>720419804
To go back and tell the truth, to fight Renoir? Whatever they want. Assuming no one will ever listen and just killing on sight is pretty obviously evil.

>>720397790 (OP)
>Verso dies
>If he doesnt have his family on a leash hes gonna lose them too
>Acts like an absolute jackass for most of the game
>he realizes hes wrong in the end

His crime, being an idiot

>>720418238
>I'd force my junkie mom into rehab if she wanted to "live out" her life shooting up in an alley.

>>720419812
Expedition 58 seemed to at least be indirectly familiar with Renoir so he must not have been hostile until after them. It sounds like Verso was more open with them than he is with 33 as well

>>720419962
Thankfully it's nothing like abusing drugs. More like just deciding to live in another place.

>>720419741
Then why did she copy paste her husband except that he now enables her bullshit and owns a sick jacket?

>>720418703
They're all still there and all he talks about is how he misses things, because those are creations. He misses his family. There's a reason we don't find him in the gestral village - he's not interested in spending his time with them.

>>720398541
Having finished the game months ago, Verso's the one character I keep thinking about. He's got layers!

>>720420029
Yes it is. She's addicted to it and it's killing her. These are facts, you may seethe about them, but they are true.

>>720420035
Him and his world is being terrorized by Clea and Renoir, that's why he's not enjoying anything. He says so himself, we even help him against he monster Clea has created that terrorizes him so he can't even sleep.

>>720420089
>Clea uses a drug comparison so it must be true
She's a fucking psycho though?

>>720420112
Like the rest of the nevrons, the lampmaster was made by Clea ages ago. She was always mean to her siblings (Clea, stop pulling your sister's hair!). It took on a whole new layer of terror when she was no longer there to play with him and only left him with her horrible creations for centuries if not millenia. Verso's been tormented by his solitude for ages.
>Him and his world is being terrorized by Clea and Renoir, that's why he's not enjoying anything.
But you said he was happy when he spent time with everyone, including the expeditioners. Expeditioners didn't exist until AFTER clea and renoir started "terorrizing" his world. Why is your argument so inconsistent?

>>720420197
Chea is literally just hypercompetent. She is carrying the entire family on her back. There's a reason her Axon looks like it does. She's adopted a severe personality because her life is one of diligent service.

>>720420289
Yes they did. They lived in the city before the world was torn apart as Renoir enters and attacks.

>>720420070
are you actually shilling your own video

>>720420070
As I replayed the game I felt dirty having him in my party and being forced to play as him in camp.

>>720417587
Verso is a terrible person and this is central to his character. He does a lot of really really bad stuff. See his journal entry. The reason why he wants to die is not because he’s 100 years old, it’s because the weight of his sins is crushing him.

>>720412703
what emotion is she expressing here?

>>720420790
She's struggling to figure out if it still counts as incest if it's a painted copy of her biological brother.

>>720410760
But how is Renoir wanting to save his family better than Expedition 33 wanting to save the entire legacy of their people and countless lives? He's also the reason Gustave's sister and everyone's families are dead, how can he be better?

>>720421015
Because his family can create infinite new lives. In a depressive fervor, his wife trivially made all of Lumiere in a matter of days.

>>720420931
They have the same genes as their real life counterparts, so yes.

>>720421058
But if he wins so does his idea that the lives they create doesn't matter, so they will create infinite lives to torture and destroy.

>>720421171
His idea is that the lives of the creators matter more than the lives of the created, which they do.

>>720421237
No they don't. Sciel is a much better person than Renoir is for example. Her actions make her a better person. She even shows compassion for the despicable piece of shit that is Verso, that's saintly behavior.

>>720416549
>>720416870
>We know what the size of the map is. There's space for roughly 20 Lumieres
this nigga doesn't know how an overworld map work

>>720421359
https://expedition33.wiki.fextralife.com/Interactive+Map

>>720421335
Capabilities over character has always been the way of the world.

>>720421359
Yeah it's clearly not to scale, while not as big as earth it's big enough for a lot of shit.

>>720421335
And they can create entire lineages of Sciels.
>>720421171
>being created is bad, but being uncreated is also bad
So what, painters shouldn't exist, painted shouldn't exist, but all the painted that exist right now are the ultimate good?

>>720421523
Might makes right is one way to look at morality, it's not one I share but if that's your pov then I understand why you sympathize with someone like Renoir and Clea.

>>720421578
They can create people like Sciel and continue to abuse them. Best would be if we could leave the canvas and kill Renoir and Clea and then go back into it. They're evil.

>>720421335
Just because I create a character and make it lawful good I'm not gonna pretend its more important than real people.

>>720421642
And if the enslaved demiurge decides to stop painting?

>>720421661
If you could create conscious beings and you made someone who was a better person than you are then yes that person would matter more than you do.

>>720421728
I can make infinite character better than I am. I am therefore more capable of doing more good than any single good character I make.

>>720421723
It's free to do what it wants since it's not enslaved. He believes it's impossible for him to continue painting because Clea and Renoir won't let him.

>>720421728
Delusional when I could turn that person evil by just willing it

>>720421776
So if Verso just stops? Is that evil or good? They aren't his characters he's sustaining anymore.

>>720421583
Sciel is fine with Alicia and Aline dying if she can get her husband back. Renoir is fine with Sciel and Lune dying as long as he can get his wife and daughter back. If lives are weighed equally, then Renoir is right and Sciel is wrong.
If it were 1:1 instead of 1:2, Renoir would be right because Renoir is a god and Sciel is not. Renoir can create and Sciel can not. Renoir can create infinite sciels and Sciel can never create a single Renoir. Therefore, Renoir > Sciel.
A large difference in capabilities > a small difference in character.

>>720421767
But if you make them only to mistreat them then all you're doing is creating suffering, you would be evil and your creations would hopefully kill you.

>>720421805
That's not how it works in the world of e33, if Aline could do that she would do it when we meet her, just change all of the party to become her slaves.

>>720421816
You mean the soul fragment? It literally exists to paint, it's the painters literal representation of putting his soul into his work. Clearly it wants to continue painting if it can be done without external attacks.

>>720397790 (OP)
imagine if your dad just took your phone and deleted your minecraft world you spent years making, you'll be mad.

>>720421869
None of the Dessendres are psycho rapist-murderers that create people to torture them.
If you're arguing no one should have the ability, then you're arguing Lumiere shouldn't exist either.
No matter what path you take, you will end up at Verso's perspective. That's why his ending is canon.

>>720421869
I can choose to mistreat or venerate them arbitrarily. I could paint Sciel getting torn apart in one canvas and saving the world in the other. So am I evil or good? I've done both these things and can do it as many times as I please.

>>720421969
I would say being arbitrary is evil.

>>720422004
You're being just as arbitrary in your definition of evil.

>>720421869
Clea literally can do that. She can paint over the creations of others easily. Aline is just less skilled than Clea, or else she would have.
>>720422004
Being arbitrary is arbitrary, it's neither good nor evil.

>>720421967
Nope. They're already created, so we should do our best to protect them from people who want to murder them. Should they never have been created? Maybe, but they were fine until an evil god came to attack them, I'd argue the only fault is on Renoir and Clea for trying to kill innocent people.

>>720422060
>they're already created
This was a mistake, to painlessly unmake them all can't exactly be evil if their existence is evil. You can't just shrug and say "Existence is pain except for those existing"

>>720420931
It'd be a lot easier to paint rape Gustave if the potential blood related part scares her

>>720422045
>>720422056
Being good is having good character. Being arbitrary is bad character, you can't torture people as a hobby and then work as a doctor to help people and therefore justify your torturing.

>>720422106
Their existance is not evil. They're just people who want to live their lives. Renoir, PVerso and Clea trying to kill them is evil.

>>720422152
Good character is doing good. I could torture twenty Sciels in the worst imaginable ways but I can also make two-thousand into perfect beings with perfect lives. Therefore I have done more good.

>>720422060
First, Renoir didn't create them. Aline did.
Second, you're arguing that Renoir has a fatherly responsibility toward Aline's creations. He also has a responsibility toward Aline and Alicia. Since Aline and Alicia have the ability to create and Lumieriens do not, their lives are worth more than the lives of the Lumieriens.

>>720422227
That's not how good character works anon, You can't rape and torture a baby and then save two babies and then claim to be a good person, are you a psychopath?

>>720422197
Their existence is killing at least two other people, three if you count Versoul. They should never have been made.

>>720422152
Your definition of arbitrary is self-serving. Therefore, you are being arbitrary. Therefore, you are evil by your standards.

>>720422350
Actually that's exactly how it works. We can torture hundreds of animals for one lifesaving medicine. Then we torture humans to fine-tune it in human testing. Then we release it and win awards and get paid money.

>>720422294
He has a responsibility to not attack and murder innocent people. Aline made them and they were happy, she didn't mistreat them. The only one she mistreats is her family by leaving them, sure that's not being a good mother but that shit happens, marriages fall apart, families fall apart. That's not justification to start mass murdering a civilization.

Aren't the humans just creations of Aline?

>>720422446
You were just saying you can't be a good person doing bad things. She was a bad person that made them selfishly. They are therefore the evil product of an evil person, and can be wiped clean freely.

>>720422446
If Aline dies then so does the canvas. It's a choice between saving Aline and dooming the canvas or dooming them both so the canvas can go on for around 33 more years.

>>720421165
I doubt it. Do you think the painters bothered painting each individual gene? Each molecule and atom? I doubt it.

>>720422458
Yeah but they've either been reproducing on their own for 67 years or Aline paints them from the monolith 9 months after someone in Lumiere gets creampied

>>720422585
No it doesn't.
>>720422496
There's obviously levels of wrongness anon, you're clearly retarded and arguing in bad faith.

>>720422458
Yeah, there weren't any humans in there when Verso and Clea originally were painting it. Every human and Lumiere was painted after real Verso died.

>>720422625
Or maybe they were all painted into existence just moments ago and given all these memories that make them think they've been around longer.

>>720422590
They're collections of chroma, so they're as real as an optical illusion. The canvas is a background for psychological struggle, and their mind's eye would produce an incest baby out of a Verso-Maelle (blech!) pairing.

Maelle is born into the world without Alines knowledge, clearly she does not control these things.

>>720422651
Yes, it does. Humans can't go on indefinitely without food and water. Aline would have to devote her entire life to staying in the canvas if she wanted to keep it going. If painters had that responsibility, there would be no paintings and life inside the canvas wouldn't exist at all.
The only paintings you would get are either sadistic or pornographic paintings where the artists are doing the equivalent of gooning.

>>720422895
Or just don't paint sentient, feeling things.

>>720422895
The canvas is self substaining, it kept going before Aline was in there and it keeps on going when she's stuck in her monolith.

>>720422957
That makes Lumiere and similar canvas-based civilizations an abomination that should be wiped out. You're far more extreme than Renoir.

>>720422957
Are you anti-natalist as well? Creating life is evil because life is suffering or something?

>>720422969
It doesn't. Paintings don't change without the active presence of the painter. What we're looking at is a dramatized version of a woman repainting her son's childhood canvas, spending so much time immersed in this task that her health starts deteriorating, and her husband telling her to snap back to reality. The canvas is a psychological battleground.

>>720423123
I'd say it's more like we shouldn't create AIs with the capability to suffer.

>>720420639
I wondered about him being so shitty. Aline was the best artist and second best painter so its unlikely she fucked up painting him. Did she paint him perfectly as he was in real life making him shitty in real life and she knew it or did she add the the shitty part to him after his death for some reason?

>>720423151
If we want the AI to be able to feel happiness it's gonna have to be able to feel suffering as well, can't have one without the other. Something causes it happiness, take it away and it will feel the opposite.

>>720423253
Same biology different experiences, he probably turns out differently?

>>720422654
There's no way that Verso didn't try to paint himself a gf during his teenage years

>>720420639
He always did what he thought was best even if it was hard, no matter how much it hurt him. That doesn't make him a terrible person.

>>720423253
Renoir painted his portrait as a person who "guards the truth with lies" so not just a common liar, but probably deceptive for some higher cause (at least in his mind). He wasn't just a selfish asshole, just look at how he sacrificed his life for Alicia, but apparently he did lie a lot

>>720423367
Verso was a rich kid surrounded by Parisian arthoes his entire life. He was banging sluts left and right.

>>720423403
Also no matter how much it hurt other people, which would be what makes him a bad person.

>>720410383
I wouldn't call Clea's motive a mystery. She wanted her family to get their shit together while she was busy genociding the Writers.

>>720423472
If you want to eliminate suffering, you would have to eliminate existence. That would mean you have to eliminate happiness as well. It's possible to have a positve balance of good over evil. That's why we're not Buddhists.

>>720423498
Yeah, I think Clea is so bitchy because in her mind, everyone is wasting their time with all this dumb shit when they're literally at war and under attack. Verso just got killed and she's fighting to kill the people who did it, while the rest of her family are having various emotional breakdowns in a fantasy world.

>>720423596
She is also soulless.

>>720423532
The problem is how he balances it out. He wants to save his mom and die, so he's willing to sacrifice every other living being which is many thousands, as well as his new friends who he deceives into doing the opposite of their noble goal of saving their friends and every living creature/person. His mom doesn't want to be saved either. So in the end it's incredibly self serving, and he does it by manipulating people who treats him like family and a dear friend or even lover.

>>720423689
#NevronLivesMatter

>>720423689
Not at all. She obviously cares deeply about her family. She just doesn't see the painting people as real or worthy of serious consideration.

>>720423695
He also knows that Aline is going insane. You can see this plainly when you meet her, and for a moment she thinks he's the real Verso even though she's the one who painted him. In his mind, the world was doomed and going to shit, and ending it sooner rather than later would be best. Then he met the party and started to think maybe things could be fixed, then everything got even more fucked and so he went back to trying to spare everyone the suffering of continuing to exist in a plane ruled by a mad god.

>>720423695
Oh and let's not forget his painted family, especially his sister who he's fine with sacrificing for this goal, she is so disappointed in him that she just wants Maelle to delete her from their world, she has nothing worth living for after her own brother tries to kill her. Absolutely despicable.

>>720423689
sorry pal but if someone just killed our brother, I'm gonna think you're retarded if you put on some VR goggles and refuse to leave your Sims game where you insist on playing with a fake version of your real (and in very real danger) family.

>>720423761
Yes he sees no hope going forward, pretty normal for someone who is depressed.

I've noticed Maellefags always have some sort of unresolved trauma or grief in their lives, and so they make the same choice in the game as they do IRL which is to just go on pretending nothing is wrong instead of facing it and dealing with the pain

>>720423794
She hated her sister for getting her brother killed and she hated her brother for trying to save her sister. She also didn't understand what it meant to be an artist. She is missing something the other people have.

>>720423932
She said she loves and hates them both. Everyone in the family is dealing with the trauma and grief in different ways, and they keep failing to see that about each other.

>>720423926
Pretty sure those thousands of families that Renoir destroyed in his psycho rage caused more trauma than his wife leaving him did.

>>720420383
Expeditioners are people on expeditions. Expeditions did not happen until the fracture. If he just meant lumierens, he would've said lumierens.

This is how Renoir sees Clea.

>>720421776
He believe it's impossible to stop, too. When he sees Renoir erasing the canvas:

Young boy: He is here… Doing… What needs to be done. What I can’t do anymore…

>>720424169
How do you know they didn't send out people on expeditions before that? To explore, hunt, etc. Either way he probably had fun with some expeditioners after the sundering as well for a while, it got worse and worse the longer it got obviously he's going to be exhausted after Renoir has terrorized him for 67 years.

>>720421950
Hypothetically, if it wanted to stop, would that matter to you? Would it be morally justified for him to stop? If not, why bother arguing that he wants it, if you don't care what he wants?

Verso just wanted to die, he didn't want to end the world. The only way he could be allowed to die was to destroy the painter who made him, but that's not the same as erasing the world.

>>720422969
>The canvas is self substaining
Wrong, Verso sustains it.

>>720423926
In my experience they're either brown or lack any understanding of what's happening in front of them. Its funny to see their faces contort when they realize "wait, Renoir finna lowkey bussin fr fr. but he a white guy tho he must be da baddie" then they make the wrong choice and get angry.

>>720424254
It's way too ambiguous. Maybe he means he's trying to bring the family back together and the fading boy can't do that.

>>720424380
If you mean his painting fragment then yeah that is part of the canvas. We don't know exactly what it does though.

>>720397790 (OP)
and facilitating magical canvases that create sentient beings and also kill people who use them worse than meth.
this games plot is so fucking stupid. Every character is shit, especially the "real" ones because anyone who would buy, keep and use a canvas is an immoral piece of shit.

>>720423695
>His mom doesn't want to be saved either.
These types of arguments always bum me out. Aline is clearly deranged, she chose to delude herself and commit slow suicide rather than face that her son died. Seeing people treat that decision like it's no big deal, because helping her would interfere with them getting what they want, makes me wonder what went wrong between them and their parents.

>>720423926
Who else would say "Mom's choosing to kill herself because she's sad? Eh, if that's what she wants. I'ma keep playing," but people who have shattered relationships with their own family?

>>720424359
Verso only decided that the canvas had to be destroyed when he saw Maelle lie to Renoir's face about leaving it. He knew that if she was allowed to remain, not only would she eventually go insane like Aline and wither away, but that she would also bring more suffering to the rest of this doomed world.

>>720424294
>How do you know they didn't send out people on expeditions before that?
Because everybody refers to expedition 0 as the first expedition and it took place after the fracture.
>he had fun after the sundering
So the world being torn apart is no big deal now? Cool. That confirms that babby Verso is just upset about his family abandoning him. Thanks for admitting it, you may have the last word if you want to cope and seethe.

>>720424359
>Verso just wanted to die
>doesn't let Renoir kill him
Verso's primary motivation was not to die and you're a brainlet for thinking it was.

>>720424570
>not only would she eventually go insane like Aline and wither away
right about everything award

>>720424471
I don't approve of her choice, but when you contrast her bad decision to stay in the canvas until she dies with Renoirs response to it, her choice is far less of an issue than his is. There's also the possibility that she wouldn't be as broken and mindfucked as she is if she didn't have to spend the last 67 years defending herself and her people against her husbands mass murder.

>>720424612
I'm used to seeing Sophie in this picture.

>>720424612
I'm saying he probably didn't become depressed immedietly after the sundering but rather that it broke him down over time anon, have you ever argued in good faith in your entire life?

There could have been exploration expeditions before the sundering, people just traveling the world etc. It's a word that could be used for many kinds of traveling parties.

>>720424748
>grief stricken mother abandons her family to delude herself to death shortly after the loss of her son
>the husband is worse for trying to make her face her problem instead of committing suicide
your family is broken, what a downer

>>720424570
Except he tried to destroy the canvas from the very beginning when he tricks the party into killing the paintress.

>>720424840
It's funny how you frame that. Since his "trying to get her to face the problem" means mass murdering an entire civilization.

>>720424821
nta but are you accusing someone of arguing in bad faith while also saying that "expeditoners" didn't refer to people on the expeditions? like the groups that the game is named after? it was just an unrelated group of people doing unrelated things in the time before shit went down that is never ever talked about in the game?

>>720424748
>dad smashes crack pipe
>this is worse than the crack addict staying on the pipe
I disagree.

>>720424864
Yeah, because his goal was to stop her mother from killing herself. He succeeded, they kicked her out. He then aligned with Alicia to stop Renoir from destroying it, until she made it clear she was going to do what Aline tried to do - suicide by canvas. If he just wanted to erase the canvas no matter what, he wouldn't have helped Alicia fight Renoir.

>>720424916
if you reduce the entire world of the canvas to some allegory of drug use then you truly are a brainlet with no hope.

>>720397790 (OP)
I just wanna impregnate Clea

>>720412625

Correct he is not happy

>He is here… Doing… What needs to be done… What I can’t do anymore…

>A. *[What needs to be done?]*

>For… My sake… And theirs…

>*The boy has gone silent.*

I think his existence is corrupted too since the real Verso is dead, he must feel incomplete. I think he wants to be put to rest

>>720397790 (OP)
>Muh family
Only clueless profans think that E33 is about muh family. It's not muh family. It's a Gnostic story about evil and worthless gods.

Consider the Dessendre family, who those people are, what they do, how they think. As people, they all combined are literally not worth one nail of one expeditioner who gave his life to save his people from what that those tards who have divine powers in the canvas world inflict on them. There is no reason for them to have divine powers, they are not fit for that. The ending that throws that entire family on the chopping block to try to save the canvas is objectively good, well, as good as it can get.
In this sense, the fate of Verso is particularly hilarious. Despite being pointlessly created by evil gods only to suffer, he is still motivated by servile loyalty to them, to the point of trying to help them even against the wishes of one of them. Which ends him being turned into a circus monkey existing to entertain the same deity he wanted to "help" against her will - he does't like it, but shouldn't a god know better how you should serve?

I'm not sure if it was intentional, or a death of the author case.

>>720417587
>cuckren
Lol

>>720424987
He had no idea he would survive that, or anyone else, he killed her knowing he would be dead and everyone else as well. He just turned out to be wrong.

When they talk to Renoir afterwards he's in complete shock, his expression says he has no faith whatsoever that Renoir will help Maelle rebuild the canvas. He's correct there, when Renoir makes it clear he wants to destroy it Maelle says no she won't let him destroy it. She literally PULLS verso along, he just stands there in a daze. After that he joins the party and is more pulled along than anything else, he seems completely lost here, no goal, this is where Maelle should've dropped him, he has shown his true colors as a deceptive traitor but she'll forgive him for anything sadly. He doesn't want to see his painted sister, probably ashamed that he tried to kill her, as he should be, they go and she doesn't want to even look at him, she asks Alicia to end her existance, her family is dead and she has nothing, PVerso blames Maelle like the piece of shit he is. Then at the very end he decides to backstab his "friends" again because he feels hopeless about the future.

>>720424901
a "civilization" which has existed for about 9 minutes IRL

in the not-so-distant future people will be "painting" on the computer "canvases" in a very similar fashion

>>720425041
Nope. Every painting has a piece of the painters soul in it and it goes on forever. They're happy living in their paintings.

>>720425002
That's what it is to Aline, though. It's slightly different for Alicia, and obviously much different for everyone else, but that's not the topic you responded to

>>720425041
Yeah, there's no way that what Renoir is doing could be interpreted as "for my sake and theirs" unless he thinks it's good that the canvas is being erased. That's what Renoir is doing.

>>720425002
I'm not being entirely fair but seems like everybody aside from Renoir that we can use for context sees the paintings as "make believe." Alicia agrees until her mind is fucked up. Renoir ironically is the one who seems to view them as feeling beings the most but if he's willing to erase it to save his family I trust his judgement and the judgement of those that haven't been mind warped by being inside too long.

>>720425427
He probably was until his family started painting all over it and killing themselves in his happy fun gestral adventure world

>>720425275
every time

>>720425382
I'm not convinced we will ever be capable of producing conscious AI, I hope not considering how evil people are, there will be lots of evil gods like Renoir/Clea.

>>720425430
No it's not just a drug for her. She cares for the people in there, she warns them and uses all her powers to keep as many of them alive as possible. She seems to be a far better person than Renoir despite her many shortcomings.

>>720425537
Whether they'll be truly conscious or not is for now an impossible question, as there's no way to even say for certain that anyone besides ourselves are conscious. They seem like it so we assume they are, but there's no way to actually know. Eventually AI will reach that point where there won't be any objective measurement to tell the difference. Maybe not any time soon, but eventually.

>>720425370
>She literally PULLS verso along
So? In the ending, they're evenly matched, after Alicia becomes MORE powerful with her painting. She didn't force him, he could've stayed if he wanted to. He could've abandoned their camp at any time. He could've joined Renoir in the fight. He fought alongside Alicia because he wanted to help her, right up until it became clear to him that the only way to help her was to stop her.

>>720425586
>seems to be a far better person than Renoir
Just admit you hate men and get it over with already.

>>720425523
Why not trust yourself? We play the game, the people in the canvas show exactly as much consciousness and free will as any "real" person. They act more noble if anything.

>>720425586
>She cares for the people in there
No she doesn't. She wouldn't create people in such a fragile environment if she cared for their wellbeing. She only cared for them to be set dressing for her delusion that her son was alive.

>>720425620
He thought Maelle was getting better and healing and it gave him hope for himself, but then he saw that she had not healed at all and that she never will as long as she stays in the canvas, so he made up his mind to do the needful

>>720425529
He says he enjoyed his time with expeditioners, he does not mind their addition, what he minds is Clea and Renoir killing and destroying.

>>720425620
He had nowhere to go, he stays because they care for him. Too bad he doesn't care about anyone but himself.

>>720425523
>everyone
The only other person we hear from is Clea. We know she's just acting harder than she is. The lady of sap shows her true feelings about the canvas and she wouldnt have had an absolute fucking melty about pClea and Simon if she didn't thought painted people were meaningless puppets.

>>720425701
and what about when Aline finally loses it? Either dying or just going completely insane. Or when the painters attack the house again and the painting gets burnt, which is what Clea is trying to prevent? Imagine how many other paintings got destroyed in the fire that killed Verso and burnt down half of the mansion.

>>720425765
>Too bad he doesn't care about anyone but himself.
you're either trolling or he reminds you of someone you have problems with IRL if that's your opinion. That's just insane

>>720425640
Gustave is a great guy.
>>720425678
She's literally warning them and using all her powers to keep as many of them alive as possible for 67 years. If she didn't care she'd just let them all die. It's not like the "illusion" is doing her family any good anymore.

>>720425765
So? If he just wanted Alicia to lose, all he had to do was wait. Renoir was winning. Verso could've even helped him, or just gone back and let him gommage him. He helped Alicia becaus he wanted to help Alicia, you're just so bizarrely incensed about a video game character that you NEED to see everything he does as evil.

>>720425779
Verso also refers to himself as a make believe being. You don't think Clea would see a poorly done drawing of her and get pissed off enough to take it off the fridge? That doesn't mean she thinks they're real.

>>720425849
Because when Renoir finished, he'd have the chroma to overpower her there. She was there for Verso and Verso alone, just like Alicia.

>>720425798
>painters
*writers dammit

>>720425849
The illusion is the whole reason she's there. If she lets her fake world get destroyed then she'll have to face reality. Pretty much every member of the Dessendre family has noble intentions on the surface but more selfish motivations underneath. And it's never just one thing or the other driving them, it's both and it causes them various personal dilemmas

>>720425880
Sure she wanted to help her for a while, then he turns on her again, what a hero.

Verso haters hate how much of themselves they see in him, they hate themselves so they cannot admit that he is right.

>>720425480
He is probably talking about his equals. He is a God and is talking about other Gods: his family. Unless something horrible happens to him as he gets more and more tired and it starts affecting his painting and its inhabitants. Can the soul keep going if the main soul is gone? I get splitting your soul and living happily as long as all the souls are alive is fine but otherwise it just feels like he is incomplete and tired

>>720425951
She's not enjoying the illusion though? They do not live with the Lumerians, she keeps them alive anyway.

>>720425889
She didn't rip a poorly done drawing off the fridge. She created a shrine where the drawing would be tortured perpetually. What she did to painted clea and simon showed terrible cruelty and was obviously an incredibly emotional decision, because she cared.

>>720398856
Thanks for your input, Chat GPT.

>>720426018
It doesn't make sense to me. They flat out make shit up most of the time like "oh he just wanted to die he don't care about nobody" its like they didn't even play the game.

>>720426056
They're a means to an end. Maybe she does actually care about them, maybe not. But without them she will have to face reality and she's too scared and hurt to do that.

>>720426129
He cares a bit, but mostly he cares about himself. The way he treats PAlicia says it all, and her reaction to his betrayal.

>>720426097
>see poorly done drawing of yourself that you find to be insulting
>get annoyed
>this suddenly means you view the drawing as a real person
Anon..

>>720426146
Either way she's protecting innocent people and Renoir is killing them. Maybe her motivations aren't pure but at least she's not a mass murderer, that counts for something when we judge a persons character I think.

>>720426184
Painted Alicia was literally created to suffer by Alicia who was mad at real Alicia for "killing" Verso. Verso was trying to save her too.

>>720426309
She had hope things could be better as her letter clearly states. Verso decides it can't be better and kills her instead. What a hero. Then he pisses and moans about Maelle doing what PAlicia asks for, when she clearly wanted nothing to do with him anymore.

>>720425953
So you agree, he made the mistake of trusting her and tried to help her.

>>720426378
>whether you give this letter to her is up to you
>didn't read it until it was too late anyway
>doesn't want his sister to die
>REE THAT EVIL BASTARD FUCK FUCK FUCK REEE
Verso haters are delusional.

>>720426383
She made the mistake of forgiving him. They should've just killed Verso after he tricked them into killing the paintress. He let's Gustave die so he can worm himself into the party and trick them into killing themselves and everyone else. This is the real mistake Maelle does, forgiving this piece of garbage.

>>720426461
you're either an only child or the youngest child of your family. Am I right?

>>720426443
Well she certainly thought less of him after that, she decides to talk to Maelle instead and says her family is dead, while PVerso is standing right there, because she doesn't see him as family anymore, well deserved.

PAlicia was a good person, it's very sad what PVerso does to her.

>>720426056
She did up until the fracture, and any hope of going back to that is gone unless she somehow overcomes Renoir.

>>720426542
She knows she can't win, she's just giving them as much time as she can give them.

>>720426191
>condemn your painted self to a torturous existence of creating monsters to brutalize your peers
>enslave your painted self's love interest and turn him into a living weapon to kill your other painted self
Yeah she was totally just annoyed, not an emotional reaction at all. The FACT remains that if she saw the painted creations as meaningless creations, she wouldn't have needed pClea to make nevrons, or simon to kill the hauler. She chose to do it that way for a reason. She's an artist, she's very intentional.

>>720426569
She's giving herself as much time as she can get. She didn't come to the canvas and create the people of Lumiere from some selfless or creative desire. She came there to hide from reality.

>>720426616
There's no doubt in my heart that Clea has killed people IRL, probably a lot of them in this war with the writers.

>>720426616
Who said it wasn't emotional? When you see a drawing of yourself that you view as mocking you get emotional. That doesn't mean you think the drawing is alive. What part of that is so hard for you to grasp? Saying Clea of all people views them as living beings is the most retarded argument in this thread.

>>720426525
>live your entire life as a burnt dog to be kicked around by aline (who loves the people she creates, of course)
>your painted sister is presumed dead, you know your painted father was defeated, you know his flesh counterpart is currently destroying your world
>decide to do ONE thing on your own terms and ask your flesh counterpart to end your constant suffering
>"As you can see this was motivated entirely by hatred for Verso."
You're simply not intelligent.

>>720426620
Sure, she came there to hide, she created conscious people with free will though, not servants who follow her orders or something. And now she's defending them from being murdered, that's a good thing.

>>720426461
>They should've just killed Verso after he tricked them into killing the paintress.
Whoops, they can't! Because Aline, who loves ALL of her creations, made Verso immortal and the rest of her creations EXTREMELY killable.
>B-but alicia could ha-
Alicia would never because her sole reason for being here is using painted Verso to pretend she didn't kill real Verso. You can bring up a bunch of irrelevant shit that happened before to distract from what you already admitted: Verso stayed with them in Act III because he wanted to help Alicia save the canvas, RIGHT UP until she made it clear she'd decided to die like Aline tried to.

>>720426745
She doesn't even want to look at him much less talk to him, it's pretty obvious she hates him at that point.

>>720426808
>she created conscious people with free will though, not servants who follow her orders or something
Maybe. An interesting thing is that Clea tried to create specific Nevrons without any free will or anything, basically just machines, but they kept "waking up" and having thoughts of their own anyway. Whether or not that was Aline's intention there's no way to know. No doubt she wanted her painted family to be as realistic as possible, and maybe the rest just kind of happened over time as she tried to make a world they'd be happy in and live together with her so she could pretend everything was fine, same as Maelle does later.

>>720426808
>see a crate teetering perilously on the edge of a cliff
>"Hmm yes this will be a good place to create a race of people that I want to be safe forever."
She could've made her own canvas with her own people powered by her own soul, but chose Verso's because she only cared about feeling like he wasn't dead, not about the innocents she used as window dressing.

>>720426850
No shit Maelle won't kill him, that's the issue as I said, that's her big mistake. She should chill with Gustave, Sciel, Lune, Monoco and Esquie. Fuck that loser PVerso.

>>720426920
There's no edge of a cliff, there's an angry evil god who shows up to kill people, Renoir is not inevitable, he decides to be evil.

>>720426924
Her remaking of Gustave is like painted painted Gustave. Just like pVerso is painted based on Aline's memories of real Verso, ppGustave is painted from the memories of Maellicia's memories of painted Gustave. I wonder how many copies and painting from memories it will be until he's nearly unrecognizable to his "original" form.

>>720426705
Lady of Sap: …
Lune: (Is this the person the boy mentioned?)
Lady of Sap: …
Lune: Hey…
Lady of Sap: …
Lune: We met a boy, he asked us to talk to you.
Lady of Sap: …
Lune: He asked, why are your paintings taking us all?
Lady of Sap: … I do it for him… I do it for us… To respect… What he created… What we created…
Lune: What does that mean?
Lady of Sap: …
Lune: (It has gone silent again… We should report back to the boy.)

I know you didn't play the game so I'll inform you that the Lady of Sap is Clea. The entire family was fucked up by Verso's death. Aline's reaction was to abandon her family and live in an illusion. Renoir's was to try and force the family to grieve together. Alicia's was to check out mentally. Clea's was to divert her focus to the war and act hard to hide her feelings. That's what she's doing when she writes off the painted people as meaningless puppets. I know it's hard to read between the lines when you can barely read, but I'll leave you with that and you can keep lying to yourself if you want to.

>>720397790 (OP)
>400+ replies
why?

>>720427071
Because its GOTY

>>720426975
He decides saving his family is more important than this world. And considering that this world will be destroyed one way or another if he doesn't save his family, it's really not that much of an extreme position. He agrees with Clea to an extent that their home is literally under attack IRL and that should be more important, but he cares too much about his wife to just abandon her to madness. And he knows veryy well how it is, because she once saved him from losing himself in a painting. In addition, this is also his way of dealing with the pain, trying to protect and help his family, so in a way it's also a selfish motivation deep down, same as everyone else.

>>720426991
That's headcanon, there's nothing in the game that says he's not the same Gustave.

>>720426924
Why did Aline, who loves her creations, not make them immortal?
>fuck that loser PVerso
Are you being Sciel or Lune right now? I know you fags hate Verso because he's not a faceless anime protagonist for you to self-insert as, and instead comes into the party fucks YOUR female party members, tells you your escapsim is fucking stupid, and then gets agreed with by the vast majority of players. That shouldn't sting you, why does it?

>>720427071
nobody ever talks about anything in these shill threads. They just say GAME GUD GAME GUD GAME GUD to each other over and over and that's fucking it. I guarantee every one of these brown retards are getting paid, or just pretending to be cultured by liking the HIT NEW GAME

>>720427117
Headcanon? It's pretty explicitly stated in the game that that's how pVerso was made, so why would it be any different? Do you think Maelle can just draw some "pure gustave essence" out of nowhere? No, it's going to be based on how she perceived and remembered him, same with literally everyone else. How the fuck else would it work?

>>720426975
>paints an accurate depiction of her husband who is willing to mass murder painted people to save her
>doesn't think he real husband will mass murder painted people to save her
Maybe you're right, maybe she's just a fucking retard.

>>720427130
I don't think immortality is a gift, what she does in creating her painted family and making them immortal is not one of her good actions, that's one of those grief filled mistakes.

>>720427208
If it's bad to kill them, it would be good to protect them from being killed. Or do you just want Verso to not be canonically immortal so you can fantasize about killing him before he fucks your waifu?

>>720427195
She does not create Gustave, she remakes him with the existing chroma. She cannot create people only bring them back.

>>720427290
Yes, by knowing "The truth of who they are." Which means she'll be capable of bringing back, like, 6 people.

>>720427130
Or we hate PVerso because he tricks his friends into killing themselves and everyone they love. I loved Gustave he's no self insert either, just a decent dude instead of a piece of shit.

>>720427290
>She cannot create people only bring them back.
Dude what? What the fuck are you talking about? Now THIS is headcanon. She has the same powers as every other painter, and all any of them can do is paint what they feel, think, see, or remember. Maelle doesn't hit Gustave with a fucking pheonix down, he's dead and gone, absorbed into the greater whole of Chroma. She can only repaint him as best she can. This idea of repainting people is mentioned several times, and given how literal the game is with some metaphors, it should be obvious. You can't just "un-erase" something. Once it's erased, it's gone, and Gustave got erased. You can only draw it again.

>>720427353
She trying to find their "souls" in a sea of chroma. When recreating other people she doesn't need to find specific people.

>>720427418
Verso was trying to save everyone even though he just wanted to die. One day you'll understand, son.

>>720427439
No, you missed the entire part of Scien and Lune getting ressurrected then? They're not created by Maelle, they're the same people they were before, they know things she doesn't know, they have shared memories she have no idea about.

>>720427418
>a video game character did something I disagreed with
>naturally I will rationally react to this with visceral hatred
Nigger it DID NOT HAPPEN. It is a fictional story. It's bizarre how up the wall Verso drives you people. Maybe being so attached to using vidya as escapism is... bad?

>>720427493
By murdering his sister, father, his friends all the Lumerians, Esquie all the gestrals etc. he managed to save, his mommy. What a hero.

>>720427468
And? This doesn't change the fact that she could only bring back people by knowing "the truth of who they are." She had Sciel and Lune's chroma 6 inches in front of her face and still needed to draw upon "their essence, the truth of who they are" to bring them back. She doesn't know dick about the rest of Lumiere outside of a couple of people.

>>720427590
>he managed to save, his mommy. What a hero.
Correct.

>>720427632
She needed to know the truth of who they are to find them, not to create them from scratch. She does not know the things they know, they have shared memories she has no idea of. She's not creating them she's resurrecting them.

>>720427770
>She needed to know the truth of who they are to find them,
No she didn't, they were right in front of her. She had their chroma. Play the game.

>>720427117
He's Gustave built from Maelle's memories. He's not the real Gustave.
Gustave and Sophie broke up because Sophie refused to have kids. Maelle didn't know about this so repainted Gustave doesn't have kids either.
They're also all clearly older than Gustave so Maelle has been expermenting creating all sorts of homonculi before she manages to paint Gustave.

>>720427290
>>720427353
She doesn't bring back Gustave. She recreates him from memory. If she could have brought back Gustave, she would have done that in the game along with Lune and Sciel.

>>720428061
She can't until she gains control of the canvas after Renoir is defeated.

>>720427590
You also see in the end he saved his family. Even though painted Verso is not the real Verso he still thinks like them. He thinks like a God, the real Verso sacrificed himself for Maelle so of course painted Verso is going to sacrifice a bunch of sims for his sister. He feels sad for them, but he sees them as inferior to his family. So does Maelle btw, despite living as an "sim" in the end her main motivation was to live for herself, saving the Sims is just frosting on the cake.

>>720428124
Nah, Maelle cares about the canvas people for real.

>>720427590
Dude they're clumps of chroma. By making the Verso ending the happy ending the French dudes are telling Maellefags to go out and touch grass.

>>720428168
Just a little, but she did it for herself, she made it quite clear. All of the Sims are just afterthoughts

>>720428215
Happy ending where Maelle cuts her wrists after it fades to black

>>720428327
>He thinks women follow through on their PMS fueled threats.
Dude next she'll threaten to kill herself because her parents didn't buy her a pony.

>>720428616
Genocide man finally forces his wife to come home as his hostage, and everyone lived happily ever after.

>>720428681
Absolutely no one gives a shit about the painted demon creatures. They're PAINTINGS. Do you cry about the hentai lady you jerked off to a few hours ago?

>>720428861
Renoirs wife had sex with the painted man, is that cheating or just marturbation according to Renoir you think?

>>720428940
VR porn is masturbation but when did she do that?

>>720428168
>leaves their city in ruins
>fixes the operahouse so they can watch her pet brother dance on command
Like Aline, she only cares about feeling like things are normal, and destroyed Lumiere is normal to her.

>>720429002
Would you be ok with your wife having sex like that? I wouldn't. They're real enough for me.

>>720428327
Your headcanon I'm afraid, and a dark one at that. I'm sorry that being stuck with your family is a fate worthy of suicide in your eyes, I hope you can rekindle your bond with them.

>>720429062
Alicia sucks. Kill Alicia.
Bring back Maelle.

>>720428681
>hostage
yeah dude she looks miserable. but if you need to invent details to make yourself feel better about your ending, I won't tell you how to engage with art.

>>720429081
A married couple shouldn't be watching porn when they could have sex with each other instead but I don't see how it's different from porn.
But when did she even do that?

>>720429097
My dad is pretty shit but at least he didn't cause a genocide, he's got that going for him.

>>720411020
>MAKING THE MOTHER OF ALL OMELETTES HERE, ALICIA!

>>720429147
>Thank you husband for murdering those 500 thousand people for my sake, it was so romantic

>>720429115
That's the only way Alicia's ending could turn out positive for the canvas. Maelle would work tirelessly with Gustave to restore Lumiere instead of sitting in the operahouse with unpainted people watching her "brother" play.
>>720429210
I already knew you had a bad relationship with your father anon, you're not dropping bombs.
>he told me to get a job, but I need that time for video games!

>>720429210
He causes a genocide every time he closes Outlook or Gmail.

>>720429206
I agree, I wouldn't be happy with my wife watching porn either, but if she had sex with a canvas person I would be a lot angrier.

>>720429243
You said she wanted what was best for Lumierens, and apparently she agrees with Renoir that it was best they be wiped out :)

>>720429246
>Restore Lumiere
It's her and Lune and Sciel left.
How would they restore Lumiere?
Sex?

>>720429246
My dad never told me to get a job he just abandoned me after my mother cheated on him. Pretty sad, but still a better person than Renoir!

>>720429279
So if she hooks up with a stranger it's the same as VR porn right?

>>720429281
Yeah he finally convinced her that killing all those people were for the best, after all now they can be really happy again, I bet they'll have so much fun.

>>720429362
She doesn't care about the painted people. She would gladly kill all of them for Verso.

>>720429349
No I don't agree with that. Cheating is much worse than porn.

>>720429319
>mother betrays your father in one of the worst ways possible
>he's the problem
kek this is worse than I imagined. He ever get a paternity test? Are you actually his kid?

>>720429421
Renoir killed PVerso and Versos soul fragment though, but I guess it's all good now.

>>720429362
Hey, she wants what's best for them, and she loves and embraces the man who wiped them out! I'm glad we agreed in the end, anon, his willingness to do whatever it took to save her from herself won her back in the end and she saw that he was right.

>>720429429
Therefore the painted people aren't real. Assuming you had to choose, her creating a disposable chroma creature to have sex with is preferable to having her cheat on you with an actual man. You wouldn't see that as rape + murder + adultery. You'd see it as VR porn.

>>720429443
She did something horrible for sure, he was in his full right to leave my mother. But not contacting me at all is unforgivable.

>>720429463
You can't reason with a junkie under the influence. Aline fought for almost 70 years to save her stash, and after a little time clean of it, she was all lovey dovey with Renoir again. Because he was right and she was wrong.

>>720429514
Oh you think virtual reality is the same as the canvas world, another one of those bad analogies. How about you just use the idea of a created canvas world instead of using bad analogies? If my wife had sex with a man in a canvas world I would consider it cheating, if she watched VR porn I would consider it watching porn.

>>720429517
Are you actually his son or was he just tricked into raising you? I agree that it's despicable to abandon your child, but if you're not his child, that's different.
>She did something horrible for sure
She shattered your family.

>>720429463
That's the only part she cares about. She doesn't care about "genocide". She never shows any attachment to anyone except Verso.
Don't kid yourself. If she had to choose, would she choose Verso or every Lumierien ever?

>>720429525
Seeing the games story as some kind of allegory of drug abuse is the sure sign of low IQ, I'm glad you're also using the le chad meme while also calling me brown to really cement that sub 90 IQ.

>>720429567
I said the opposite. I said you'd treat sex in the canvas like VR porn. If she painted some CHROMA creature and had sex with it then gommaged it, would you treat it as sex + rape + adultery or like VR porn?

>>720429575
Yes I'm definitely his son we look very similar.

>>720429635
*rape + murder + adultery

>>720429590
You don't actually have to ask, she see the state she leaves Lumiere in. She chooses Verso.

>>720429635
If she painted a conscious being and fucked him it would be like fucking any other person, it's cheating. VR porn is not cheating, it's just watching porn with a TV really close to your eyes.

What the fuck is this discussion

>>720429616
It's a fitting comparison (not an allegory, I know you're excited to use the word you just learned). She pacifies herself with it to feel good, she can't give it up, it's killing her. And once it's out of her system, she can be rational again. Sorry that being called brown stung you.
>>720429653
No paternity test? Oof. Well, I hope you're right.

>>720429590
Except that she protected all those people for 67 years but she was just crazy I guess, thankfully she stopped being crazy and celebrated the genocide with her husband instead, thank god for sanity.

>>720429770
Because she wanted to protect the canvas from being erased for Verso's sake.

>>720429770
>but she was just crazy I guess
Yes, she was very obviously crazy. She wasn't even sure what was real or not anymore, and questioned whether the fire even happened. Fortunately she regains her senses once her husband boots her out and saves her life.

>>720429841
Yeah for sure, I just think she had better morality as a crazy person than as a sane person. She was protecting innocent when she was crazy, celebrating their deaths with her husband when she was sane. Realy makes you think.

>>720429727
Since painted people are just as real as real people, it would be worse to create a painted person, have sex with it, and gommage it, right? So naturally you'd prefer being cucked in real life. Correct?

>>720429901
>She was protecting innocent when she was crazy
No, she was protecting her access to the canvas, She could've told Renoir to stop killing Lumierens on sight, but didn't give a fuck. Once the fight started she saw them as nothing but chroma batteries. Just like Alicia, the ONLY thing she cared about was deluding herself into thinking Verso was alive. If she lost to Renoir, she'd lose the chance to do that forever. Sorry, you're simply wrong.

>>720429930
I mean yeah you would have murdered someone on top of cheating, that'd be worse for sure.

>>720429968
I wonder if Aline even knows PRenoir is killing expeditioners going to kill her, that's never really explained.

>>720429985
So when your wife starts cheating on you with a painted person, would you do everything in your power to stop it? Like would you gommage the dude?

>>720429319
>>720429210
>>720428327
jesus christ

>>720430021
Given that he can erase people and do all kinds of crazy shit and has a giant painted lion backing him up, the only explanation is that Aline is actively powering him up.

>>720430216
Yeah, and my wife as well, then myself.

>>720430231
I'm actually not Jesus Christ, just a boy abandoned by his father.

>>720430318
>his father

it wont win goty

>>720430326
Nah you can't even put any doubt in me, I look way too much like him.

>>720430382
Okay. Maybe you can grab a strand of hair or something, just to be sure. Take care.

Can't wait to have the same argument in the next thread.

>>720430450
I hope the devs come out with some information about some of the stuff that is a bit unclear, like in Maelles ending did they reuse assets to save time and money or are they supposed to look similar to hint that Maelle just made a bunch of badly made copies? To me that sounds ridiculous but a lot of people believe it.

>>720430519
they have the lumierens in full colors in other cutscenes, making them white was 100% a creative choice. thinking they cut corners in one of the two most important cutscenes in the game is a deranged level of cope

>>720430275
Why would you kill yourself?

>>720430450
Every E33 thread is a therapy session for Maellefags to get over their daddy issues.

>>720430560
I don't it's cope, her entire ending feels way too short and ambigious and it's so uncertain what the intent is with some choices. Inside the theater the NPC's we see have different clothing.

>>720430578
I'd be so depressed that I was duped into loving a whore with no morals, I don't think I could ever recover.

>>720430635
Still all white. I wonder what else we encountered in the game was depicted as white and unfinished?
>feels way too short and ambiguous
You just didn't like it. It's the same length as Verso's.

>>720430673
No there's other colors. Also her ending involves a lot more characters and complexity, Versos ending is literally just everyone dies except their family, there's not a lot to consider except that Maelles looks alone and ignored by her family, no one stands with her, no one hugs her, she's left alone.

>>720430784
>No there's other colors.
May I see them?

>>720430798
https://youtu.be/QEk75rd7hi8?t=473 You can't really get a good screenshot, they're all out of focus but you can tell it's not all white and completely different clothes to the ones standing outside.

>>720430891
The room is dark, but everyone behind alicia and her friends is dressed in all white. Different outfits from those outside, but still white.

>>720430952
We've seen unpainted people before. They don't just dress in white, they are entirely white.

>>720431149
Where?

>>720430664
So while Renoir killed the painted people, in his place, you'd kill the painted people, Aline, and yourself too. One world and two gods dead. How is that better?